When does dedication become obsession? With Stephen Hendry, Jill Scott, Jonny Wilkinson and Brent Hoberman

In this episode we look back upon some of the guests whose dedication to High Performance has had a detrimental effect on other elements of their lives. Jake and Damian explore the difficulties associated with going 'all in', while reliving moments from Jill Scott, Brent Hoberman, Stephen Hendry and Jonny Wilkinson.

Listen to their full episodes here:

Jill Scott: https://pod.fo/e/17147d

Brent Hoberman: https://pod.fo/e/172e1d

Stephen Hendry: https://pod.fo/e/c12f9

Jonny Wilkinson: https://pod.fo/e/9cca4

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

# Navigating the Delicate Balance Between High Performance and Personal Well-being: Insights from High-Achieving Individuals

**Introduction:**

In this podcast episode, we delve into the lives of individuals who have achieved great success in their respective fields, exploring the impact of their relentless pursuit of high performance on other aspects of their lives. With insights from Jill Scott, Brent Hoberman, Stephen Hendry, and Jonny Wilkinson, we examine the challenges of maintaining a healthy balance between ambition and personal well-being.

**Key Themes:**

1. **The All-In Mindset:**

- Some guests, like Jill Scott and Stephen Hendry, have embraced an "all-in" approach, dedicating their lives entirely to their chosen pursuits. This unwavering focus has led to remarkable achievements but often at the expense of personal relationships and overall well-being.

2. **The Struggle for Balance:**

- Brent Hoberman, co-founder of lastminute.com, emphasizes the difficulty of achieving work-life balance, particularly for entrepreneurs. He argues that the level of obsession required for entrepreneurial success often leaves little room for other aspects of life.

3. **The Cost of Success:**

- Stephen Hendry, a legendary snooker player, candidly shares the personal toll of his relentless pursuit of victory. He acknowledges the sacrifices he made in his personal life, including strained relationships with his wife and children, to achieve his sporting goals.

4. **The Importance of Self-Awareness:**

- Jonny Wilkinson, the iconic rugby player, stresses the significance of self-awareness in navigating the challenges of high performance. He highlights the need for athletes to understand their limits and prioritize their physical and mental well-being.

5. **The Power of Perspective:**

- Adam Grant, an organizational psychologist, emphasizes the importance of embracing different perspectives and recognizing that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to success. He encourages individuals to find what works best for them and to avoid comparing themselves to others.

6. **The Value of Discipline:**

- Ryan Holiday, author of "Discipline is Destiny," underscores the crucial role of discipline in achieving high performance. He highlights the importance of showing up consistently, even when motivation is lacking, and emphasizes that discipline often separates the successful from the unsuccessful.

7. **The Cost of Temptation:**

- Jake Humphrey, the podcast host, emphasizes the need to consider the potential consequences of indulging in temptations or avoiding challenging tasks. He argues that the pain of resisting is often less than the suffering caused by procrastination or inaction.

**Conclusion:**

The pursuit of high performance often requires sacrifices and can impact various aspects of an individual's life. However, by embracing self-awareness, maintaining a healthy perspective, and cultivating discipline, individuals can navigate the challenges of high performance while prioritizing their overall well-being. The podcast highlights the importance of finding a balance that allows for both personal fulfillment and professional success.

**Navigating the Delicate Balance: High Performance and Personal Well-being**

In this episode, Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes delve into the intricate relationship between high performance and personal well-being, exploring the sacrifices individuals make in pursuit of excellence and its potential impact on other aspects of their lives. They revisit conversations with esteemed guests, including Jill Scott, Brent Hoberman, Stephen Hendry, and Jonny Wilkinson, each of whom has faced this delicate balancing act.

**The Allure of Discipline and Self-control:**

Jake emphasizes the satisfaction derived from exercising self-control and discipline, particularly in the face of temptation. He shares his personal experience of weight loss, highlighting the joy of proving to oneself that discipline is possible. Drawing inspiration from Ryan Holiday's commitment to embodying his book titles through tattoos, Jake underscores the importance of living by the messages one preaches.

**Johnny Wilkinson's Journey to a New Perspective:**

The podcast revisits its conversation with rugby legend Jonny Wilkinson, who candidly discusses his previous belief that suffering and sacrifice were necessary to achieve a joyful and flowing state. However, through introspection and experience, Wilkinson realized that this mindset often led to stronger habits of suffering and sacrifice, rather than true joy. He emphasizes the importance of mental flexibility and recognizing that a singular approach may not be sustainable in the long run.

**Learning from the Experiences of High Achievers:**

Jake and Damian highlight the value of learning from the experiences of high performers, emphasizing that these individuals are not immune to challenges and sacrifices. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast's conversations, as they offer valuable insights, techniques, and perspectives from some of the world's most successful individuals.

**Embracing Positivity and Indifference:**

The episode concludes with a discussion on the importance of positivity and indifference in achieving high performance. Jake and Damian emphasize the need to focus on personal growth and learning from failures, rather than dwelling on anger or envy towards others' successes or failures. They remind listeners that life is short and that neglecting the present and fearing the future can lead to anxiety and trouble.

Overall, this episode explores the complexities of pursuing high performance while maintaining personal well-being, drawing upon the experiences and insights of renowned guests. It highlights the importance of discipline, self-control, mental flexibility, positivity, and indifference in navigating this delicate balance.

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[01:35.840 -> 01:39.200] Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[01:39.200 -> 01:43.640] And we know that you can't always spare an hour or sometimes a bit more than that to
[01:43.640 -> 01:45.520] hear one of our long form episodes.
[01:45.520 -> 01:49.360] But what we actually love to do is regularly look back on previous guests who've joined
[01:49.360 -> 01:51.200] us and try and find a common theme.
[01:51.200 -> 01:52.360] And Damien's with me as always.
[01:52.360 -> 01:53.360] Hey, Damien.
[01:53.360 -> 01:54.360] Hi, Jake.
[01:54.360 -> 01:56.120] He's actually in a hotel room in Barcelona.
[01:56.120 -> 01:59.360] His life is clearly far more glamorous than mine.
[01:59.360 -> 02:02.520] I'm in a cold room in Norfolk.
[02:02.520 -> 02:10.340] What we thought, Damien, was that we would just look at some of the advice or some of the messages from our guests over the past year about getting work-life
[02:10.340 -> 02:15.920] balance correct, making sure that, like, there's not too high a price for success. And I think
[02:15.920 -> 02:20.800] let's just be really clear, right, with the people that are listening to this. High performance
[02:20.800 -> 02:28.960] is not a podcast. It's not a brand. it's not a source of information that says work yourself to the bone, we're not really hot on this whole hustle culture
[02:28.960 -> 02:32.300] you see, we're not, we're trying our very best not to put out horrible kind of
[02:32.300 -> 02:35.320] toxic messages, we don't always get it right but we do try to get it right
[02:35.320 -> 02:40.360] where we can. Ours is about, I guess it's about finding the thing that works for
[02:40.360 -> 02:43.520] you and if it's right for one person it doesn't mean that it's right for you and
[02:43.520 -> 02:46.920] you shouldn't feel that just because something suits someone else in
[02:46.920 -> 02:50.160] society and it doesn't suit you, you're somehow failing or you're somehow
[02:50.160 -> 02:52.960] struggling or you're somehow less worthy because you don't do the things that
[02:52.960 -> 02:57.560] other people do. That's a really powerful point Jake. I think we're not offering a
[02:57.560 -> 03:02.780] formula, a solution, an algorithm for how people live their lives. This is for
[03:02.780 -> 03:09.440] everybody to work out for themselves of what works best for them. And I think where we're so privileged
[03:09.440 -> 03:14.840] with the podcast is that we speak to people across that spectrum from either
[03:14.840 -> 03:19.040] end of the extreme and those that are in the middle. People that have given
[03:19.040 -> 03:23.380] everything, in Stephen Gerrard's words, they've gone all in for success versus
[03:23.380 -> 03:25.960] those that have actually defined success
[03:25.960 -> 03:29.460] as being a great parent or a partner
[03:29.460 -> 03:32.800] or thought about it from a more holistic point of view.
[03:32.800 -> 03:34.920] And what we're not offering, as you say,
[03:34.920 -> 03:37.520] is anybody telling anybody, do this,
[03:37.520 -> 03:38.840] and these results will follow.
[03:38.840 -> 03:41.520] We're just offering perspectives
[03:41.520 -> 03:43.880] and asking you to consider what works for you
[03:43.880 -> 03:48.160] and what doesn't. And, you know, like I say, I don't think we always get it right, you know. I put
[03:48.160 -> 03:51.400] something up just recently on LinkedIn saying how I love getting up at five o'clock
[03:51.400 -> 03:55.120] in the morning and it got pulled apart really by people saying, kind of making
[03:55.120 -> 03:58.480] out that I was making them feel less worthy because they weren't getting up at
[03:58.480 -> 04:01.640] five o'clock or you know somehow it was like really sort of bad advice. It's a
[04:01.640 -> 04:05.840] tricky one isn't it because what I was trying to not say was, you've got to get up at
[04:05.840 -> 04:08.280] five o'clock if you want to be successful. What I was trying to
[04:08.280 -> 04:11.940] say was, listen, this, this is what I do. And it has made a
[04:11.940 -> 04:14.920] real difference for me and my life. But I suppose sometimes I
[04:14.920 -> 04:17.240] get disillusioned because I sort of, I really want high
[04:17.240 -> 04:20.480] performance to be a podcast that exists in a world where we all
[04:20.680 -> 04:23.440] lift each other up, help each other out, offer a bit of
[04:23.440 -> 04:27.680] advice, and we all come to it with a, with a mindset of trying to be as understanding as
[04:27.680 -> 04:31.280] possible and then sometimes it feels like we live in this world where people
[04:31.280 -> 04:36.600] are so keen to be angry, so quick to try and misrepresent someone else or find a
[04:36.600 -> 04:41.320] different angle. It, it's a tricky, it's a tricky conversation to have this whole
[04:41.320 -> 04:44.280] hustle type conversation I think, isn't it?
[04:44.280 -> 04:49.840] Yeah, definitely, because I think people want certainty, they want actual answers,
[04:49.840 -> 04:56.160] and when somebody doesn't offer it to them, the discomfort of not knowing, of leaving something
[04:56.160 -> 05:02.000] ambiguous and saying, no, you have to work that out yourself, can often create anger. So, I saw
[05:02.000 -> 05:05.000] the post that you put on, I remember us talking about it and what
[05:05.000 -> 05:08.760] you were trying to do is say, this works for me and these are the these are the
[05:08.760 -> 05:13.280] steps of why it works for me. But what I didn't see you do was say, but you need
[05:13.280 -> 05:17.560] to do this or you're a failure if you don't do it. It was, if somebody was to
[05:17.560 -> 05:20.960] read it and go, you know what, getting up at 5 in the morning doesn't work for me,
[05:20.960 -> 05:26.360] that's fine as well. Just take it and sometimes not having an
[05:26.360 -> 05:30.560] opinion is also a position to take to go, that's okay, that's alright, it's
[05:30.560 -> 05:34.640] not for me. But you know, I have to check myself as well though, because I, we can
[05:34.640 -> 05:37.440] talk about Brent Hoberman, right? Should we talk about Brent for a second? He joined us
[05:37.440 -> 05:40.760] quite recently, didn't he? And like, that is one of my favourite episodes. I found
[05:40.760 -> 05:45.660] him a really interesting guy, but I definitely did disagree with him when it
[05:45.660 -> 05:50.240] came to the fact that he believes, you know, entrepreneurship is all in and family comes
[05:50.240 -> 05:51.240] second.
[05:51.240 -> 05:52.520] You know, I believe you can have a great life.
[05:52.520 -> 05:54.980] And for me anyway, family is at the centre of it.
[05:54.980 -> 05:58.880] And I actually had to remind myself during that conversation that that podcast episode
[05:58.880 -> 06:01.520] isn't about me having to live the life that he's lived.
[06:01.520 -> 06:08.280] It's about me choosing that there are some things Brent said I thought I'm going to adopt those. There's other things where I thought I will fundamentally
[06:08.280 -> 06:13.560] disagree with that. But I think we kind of exist as a forum for people to cherry pick
[06:13.560 -> 06:17.420] what they want. Don't agree with everything. What sort of person are you if you agree with
[06:17.420 -> 06:20.640] absolutely everything that everyone else says? You'd be constantly going this direction,
[06:20.640 -> 06:23.280] then that direction, then this direction, you know what I mean? You'd never get where
[06:23.280 -> 06:26.800] you want to go because you'd be derailed too often by other people.
[06:26.800 -> 06:31.360] There's a great quote from a former Miami Dolphins coach called Don Shuler that said,
[06:31.360 -> 06:33.520] if you don't stand for anything, you fall for everything.
[06:34.240 -> 06:38.080] And I think it's that idea that you have to know what works for you, but equally what doesn't.
[06:38.080 -> 06:43.840] So when we sat down with Brent, he quoted the example of Steve Jobs, and I know a lot of people
[06:43.840 -> 06:47.040] laud Steve Jobs for what he's doing and being a great visionary but
[06:47.040 -> 06:50.560] we also spoke about the flaws of Steve Jobs of how he could be deeply
[06:50.560 -> 06:53.760] unpleasant and almost sociopathic in the way that
[06:53.760 -> 06:58.080] he managed people and I think what Brent wasn't doing in that example was he
[06:58.080 -> 07:01.680] wasn't offering Steve Jobs as the archetype that we all need to follow.
[07:01.680 -> 07:06.360] He was saying there were certain aspects of Steve Jobs' work that was actually really incredible
[07:06.360 -> 07:09.840] that he adopted as an entrepreneur himself.
[07:09.840 -> 07:13.720] And I think if we can get into that conversation,
[07:13.720 -> 07:15.800] again, one of our previous guests, Adam Grant,
[07:15.800 -> 07:18.320] said that we live in a world where it's almost like,
[07:18.320 -> 07:20.360] if you flip-flop, if I used to believe this
[07:20.360 -> 07:22.160] and now I believe something different,
[07:22.160 -> 07:23.700] we see it as a sign of weakness,
[07:23.700 -> 07:26.420] but we need to get into the position of actually seeing it as a sign
[07:26.420 -> 07:30.520] of strength that you've changed your opinion based on hearing somebody's
[07:30.520 -> 07:34.680] facts, having a different perspective has made you rethink it and that's actually
[07:34.680 -> 07:39.160] a really good thing. Let's have a bit of a listen then. This is Brent Hoberman.
[07:39.160 -> 07:43.880] Just as a reminder for you, he co-founded lastminute.com. He was also involved in
[07:43.880 -> 07:45.800] co-founding made.com as well.
[07:45.800 -> 07:47.360] Two businesses that ended up being valued
[07:47.360 -> 07:48.320] at over a billion pounds.
[07:48.320 -> 07:51.600] He's an incredible entrepreneur, hugely driven.
[07:51.600 -> 07:52.640] This is what he said.
[07:54.240 -> 07:56.760] It's sort of dangerous to say everyone can be an entrepreneur
[07:56.760 -> 07:59.480] because actually let alone for people's mental health,
[07:59.480 -> 08:00.720] you know, you've got to be,
[08:00.720 -> 08:03.680] this resilience isn't something everyone has.
[08:03.680 -> 08:06.680] And people can find happy, what we want is people to be happy, right?
[08:06.680 -> 08:09.000] They can find happiness in many different ways.
[08:09.000 -> 08:12.360] And my wife tells this to me, or I say to my kids, you know, to be an entrepreneur,
[08:12.360 -> 08:14.920] whatever, they're like, make sure they know they can be happy in lots of different other
[08:14.920 -> 08:15.920] ways.
[08:15.920 -> 08:17.280] It's not just that.
[08:17.280 -> 08:21.320] And I think what I mean is by people being suited to be an entrepreneur, it's this point
[08:21.320 -> 08:26.760] that the obsessiveness you need to succeed is not for everyone. The
[08:26.760 -> 08:31.640] best entrepreneurs, I'm sorry in this day of work-life balance, they don't have work-life
[08:31.640 -> 08:37.640] balance. Work is their life and they love it. And not everybody is going to love work
[08:37.640 -> 08:42.680] that much that they can give it 95% of their whole life for a period of time.
[08:42.680 -> 08:47.640] You know what, Damien, I'm totally in the opposite sort of school of thought to most
[08:47.640 -> 08:48.640] people now.
[08:48.640 -> 08:51.320] You know where people are constantly looking to agree with people all the time, and if
[08:51.320 -> 08:53.600] you disagree then you have to have a row with them, or you have to cut them out of your
[08:53.600 -> 08:56.000] social media feed or your life or whatever.
[08:56.000 -> 09:01.800] I really like it when I hear someone say something I disagree with, because it kind of makes
[09:01.800 -> 09:04.840] me realise that actually I've found something there.
[09:04.840 -> 09:07.840] I've found my thing, I've found my answer to that conundrum.
[09:07.840 -> 09:12.160] And my one, when it comes to the comments from Brent, is my family absolutely number one.
[09:12.160 -> 09:16.000] I believe that you can run a successful business and still be a really present dad.
[09:16.000 -> 09:18.400] I think that people who go,
[09:18.400 -> 09:21.440] I don't have time to be with my kids, I don't have time to go out for Sunday lunch with my wife,
[09:21.440 -> 09:24.080] I don't have time to sit and have a beer with my mates.
[09:24.080 -> 09:27.880] They are not winning. In my my opinion they are not winning. It
[09:27.880 -> 09:32.840] might work for them but that's okay. There was a really good extract in the
[09:32.840 -> 09:37.640] Will Smith autobiography that he co-wrote with Mark Manson, who we'd had as a guest
[09:37.640 -> 09:41.160] on, where he speaks about when he went to Mary's guidance counselling with his wife
[09:41.160 -> 09:44.960] and he said, he teased it up and said I've never seen my wife cry as hard as
[09:44.960 -> 09:45.840] what she did, well after this session where the counsellor had asked him to wedyn wrth ymgynghori gyda'i ewi, ac fe ddweud, fe'i ddiddorio ac mewn gwirionedd, dwi ddim wedi gweld fy ewi crio'n fawr o'r hyn sydd wedi'i wneud,
[09:45.840 -> 09:49.760] ar ôl y sesiwn hwn, lle'r cynghorwyr yn gofyn iddo ddysgu'r
[09:49.760 -> 09:53.440] cynhyrchion cyntaf yn ei bywyd yn orde, ac yna fe ddweud iddo dynnu'r ewi'n
[09:53.440 -> 09:56.400] gwahanol. Ac fe ddweud Will Smith, fe ddewis yn ôl, ac ar y top o'i
[09:56.400 -> 09:59.840] cynhyrchion cyntaf oedd ei hun, ac yna roedd ei ewi, ac roedd
[09:59.840 -> 10:02.560] ei plant, ac roedd yn dod yn orde, er mwyn i'w ewi
[10:02.560 -> 10:30.560] ddod yn gyntaf i'r plant, ac yna i'w hyn, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, er mwyn i'r ffyrdd o'r blaenau hyn i'r rhai o'r blaenau hyn, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac yn dod i'r rhan fwyaf, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, ac in, acion gwahanol, ac nid oedd y rhai oedd yn gwrthdod, ond os oedd yn ymwneud â'r trafodaethau hynny, roedd yn mynd i gynnwys cysylltiad a chyfnod a'r ddiddorol.
[10:30.560 -> 10:35.360] Ac rwy'n credu y dywedwch chi hynny yno, y bydd e'n dweud i chi y bydd ei
[10:35.360 -> 10:39.920] cyfraniad yn y busnes gyntaf, ac yna bydd y teulu yn cael ei gael o hynny, er mwyn
[10:39.920 -> 10:43.360] dweud eich bod chi'n dweud, na, mewn gwirionedd, mae fy nghyfnod yn wahanol.
[10:43.360 -> 10:48.940] Ac mae hynny'n beth ddiddorol i allu cyfathrebu, ac yna i gyd yn y bobl you're saying, well actually my order is slightly different. And that's a brilliant thing to be able to clarify and then to almost rank your priorities
[10:48.940 -> 10:53.940] in that order, gives you almost a transparency in the world that people
[10:53.940 -> 10:57.060] know what you stand for and they can almost predict how you're going to
[10:57.060 -> 11:00.220] behave and where you're going to allocate your time, energy and resources.
[11:00.220 -> 11:05.680] Yeah, look, some people might want to be number one, right? That's fine. I like the idea of
[11:05.680 -> 11:10.240] being the only one, because then you're unique, right? That's the, that's the difference.
[11:10.240 -> 11:13.820] Just have a totally different mindset to other people. It's not about being better and winning
[11:13.820 -> 11:17.880] every time. But then for some people it is. This is Stephen Hendry, and the answer to
[11:17.880 -> 11:21.320] this question blew our minds.
[11:21.320 -> 11:25.840] I had a girlfriend who became a wife, then you have a family, life changes.
[11:25.840 -> 11:27.680] And I always fought against that.
[11:27.680 -> 11:29.800] People say, oh, you're going to get married, that's it, that's the end of your career,
[11:29.800 -> 11:32.760] and all that, you know, you have kids, that's it.
[11:32.760 -> 11:34.000] And I always fought against that.
[11:34.000 -> 11:37.200] I still kept, I was determined to keep practicing.
[11:37.200 -> 11:42.600] The reason why there's so few people can win relentlessly is they sacrifice even family
[11:42.600 -> 11:49.600] to get to, you know, snooker is my life, number one, that came first, even before my wife, my kids, everything.
[11:49.600 -> 11:53.600] Obviously, they ended to detriment of a marriage and everything, you know, it was all about me.
[11:53.600 -> 11:55.200] It's very cold, but it has to be that.
[11:55.200 -> 12:02.900] So Stephen spoke about the fact that, you know, he had issues with his marriage and the relationship with his children.
[12:02.900 -> 12:07.200] And we said to him, you know, would you, now that you know the cost that winning at snooker
[12:07.200 -> 12:10.120] had on your personal life, would you do it all over again?
[12:10.120 -> 12:11.760] This was the answer that he gave.
[12:13.720 -> 12:14.560] If you had your time again,
[12:14.560 -> 12:16.720] would you win less games of snooker,
[12:16.720 -> 12:20.800] be at home more and be married to your wife still
[12:20.800 -> 12:22.680] and have a sort of family life?
[12:22.680 -> 12:24.600] Or is the winning, which we spoke about
[12:24.600 -> 12:27.860] right at the beginning, the thing that you feel you were put on this
[12:27.860 -> 12:29.660] earth to do to be a winner?
[12:29.660 -> 12:31.580] Yeah definitely I mean there's going to be a lot of
[12:31.580 -> 12:36.940] people watching us thinking what an absolute cold son of a bitch but that's
[12:36.940 -> 12:39.740] yeah that's what I was putting I was putting this out to win snooker match
[12:39.740 -> 12:46.160] to win world titles and be as dedicated as I was to be the best and yeah given the
[12:46.160 -> 12:48.400] same decisions I'd make the same decisions again.
[12:48.400 -> 12:53.920] Now that blew our minds and then Damien and I asked him his three non-negotiables.
[12:53.920 -> 12:55.760] Have a listen to his first one.
[12:55.760 -> 13:02.400] Three non-negotiable behaviours that you and the people around you have to buy into.
[13:02.400 -> 13:04.400] Selfishness.
[13:04.400 -> 13:05.120] Right so here let's have a conversation right Damien. I was only speaking about you have to buy into. Selfishness.
[13:07.580 -> 13:09.360] Right, so here, let's have a conversation, right, Damien. I was only speaking about this with the guys
[13:09.360 -> 13:11.240] at the Champions League match I was covering the other day.
[13:11.240 -> 13:12.780] I actually, you know, they,
[13:12.780 -> 13:14.000] I think it was Rio actually that said
[13:14.000 -> 13:15.840] he doesn't think that he would have been as successful
[13:15.840 -> 13:18.640] if he hadn't have been as selfish when he was a footballer.
[13:18.640 -> 13:19.480] Yeah.
[13:19.480 -> 13:20.480] And then Joe Cole said, you know what,
[13:20.480 -> 13:22.280] I wouldn't have been as good at football
[13:22.280 -> 13:23.320] if I'd have enjoyed it more.
[13:23.320 -> 13:25.240] I had to focus on being good
[13:25.240 -> 13:28.000] rather than enjoying what I went through.
[13:28.000 -> 13:30.040] And if I would have loved to have enjoyed it more,
[13:30.040 -> 13:31.840] but then I wouldn't have achieved so much.
[13:31.840 -> 13:34.000] So there is this really interesting conversation here
[13:34.000 -> 13:36.720] about getting to the very top of the mountain.
[13:36.720 -> 13:38.440] It does have its victims,
[13:38.440 -> 13:41.960] and it's quite incredible of Stephen Hendry
[13:41.960 -> 13:44.400] to talk in the way that he did on our podcast, isn't it?
[13:44.400 -> 13:45.580] I thought it was amazing.
[13:45.580 -> 13:50.580] I remember being shocked that somebody was just so open
[13:50.640 -> 13:51.780] and transparent with us,
[13:51.780 -> 13:54.220] but actually really admiring his bravery,
[13:54.220 -> 13:56.780] because I think all of us listening to this
[13:56.780 -> 13:58.660] can think of people that talk a good game
[13:58.660 -> 14:00.460] and don't necessarily back it up.
[14:00.460 -> 14:03.620] They know that the more prudent response
[14:03.620 -> 14:08.000] that Stephen could have given was to say, oh, of course I wish I was still with my wife and kids. Ond i fod yn y gwir i ddweud, nid, dydw i ddim. Gwnaethom yr hyn rydw i'n ei wneud, ac dwi ddim yn ymdrechu'r penderfyniad rydw i wedi'i wneud.
[14:08.000 -> 14:47.960] Mae'n rhywbeth y dydw i ddim yn rhaid i chi ffwrdd â'i gyda'i, ond gallwch chi ddod o'r ffordd i adnabod y llwyr oedran a'r ddiddorol i'w gallu rhannu. Ac mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi ddweud, mae'n ddiddorol i chi dd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r iddyn nhw gael i'w gallu mynd i rhai o'r teyrnodau mwyaf dangos
[14:47.960 -> 14:49.960] y byd a gwneud y swydd y maen nhw'n ei wneud.
[14:49.960 -> 14:53.760] Mae angen i'r ddewis fod yn y cyfan a'r cyfnod o'i gilydd.
[14:53.760 -> 14:56.800] Felly, eto, mae'n dda iawn i'r hyn rydyn ni'n ei ddweud.
[14:56.800 -> 14:59.800] Os yw'n herio, mae'n rhaid i chi feddwl ychydig o'r fath,
[14:59.800 -> 15:00.800] yw yw gen i'n rôl-modell?
[15:00.800 -> 15:03.200] Felly os dweud yw'n genredig, yw yw'n genredig wir?
[15:03.200 -> 15:05.280] Yw'n genredig mewn bob sefyllfa? Mae nifer o bobl yn genredig hefyd, ac mae nifer o sefyllfaoedd ddim. Am I role model? So if I say I'm generous, am I really generous? Am I generous in every situation?
[15:05.280 -> 15:07.480] Are there certain people I'm generous to
[15:07.480 -> 15:09.240] and certain situations I'm not?
[15:09.240 -> 15:12.360] And being clear about that allows us to feel
[15:12.360 -> 15:16.840] that we're acting in congruity with who we say we are.
[15:16.840 -> 15:19.560] And we all know that we like our leaders,
[15:19.560 -> 15:23.280] we like people around us to be people we can rely on.
[15:23.280 -> 15:25.520] And that basically is do what you say you'll do.
[15:25.520 -> 15:29.760] And just don't be angry like if someone like Stephen Hendry thinks like Stephen Hendry,
[15:29.760 -> 15:34.480] you know, it worked for him, he needed it, you know, I'm sure his wife and children might think
[15:34.480 -> 15:38.640] differently but I think, you know, we have to accept that people have different approaches to
[15:38.640 -> 15:43.520] life, right? It's just that is society, that is the world and if we were all the same there wouldn't
[15:43.520 -> 15:45.520] be anything like as interesting as it is. But there's an that is society, that is the world. And if we were all the same, there wouldn't be anything like as interesting as it is.
[15:45.520 -> 15:46.920] But there's an interesting exercise there.
[15:46.920 -> 15:48.080] If people are listening to this,
[15:48.080 -> 15:50.960] maybe do this with the people that are closest to you,
[15:50.960 -> 15:53.560] whether it's your partner or you've got children
[15:53.560 -> 15:56.240] or whether it's friends around you.
[15:56.240 -> 15:59.360] Be really clear about what your behaviours are
[15:59.360 -> 16:01.200] and ask them for theirs as well.
[16:01.200 -> 16:03.200] It gives you that clarity to go,
[16:03.200 -> 16:26.000] oh, so again, I'll use the example of Adam Grant when we had him on, and he said that he lived in a state of guilt i'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o' y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn. Ond rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn. Ond rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw,
[16:26.000 -> 16:28.000] rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn.
[16:28.000 -> 16:30.000] Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw,
[16:30.000 -> 16:32.000] rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn.
[16:32.000 -> 16:34.000] Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw,
[16:34.000 -> 16:36.000] rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn.
[16:36.000 -> 16:38.000] Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw,
[16:38.000 -> 16:40.000] rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn.
[16:40.000 -> 16:42.000] Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw,
[16:42.000 -> 16:44.000] rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn.
[16:44.000 -> 16:46.800] Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, rydyn ni'n gwybod bod y cyfnod hwnnw'n ddiddorol iawn. the moments when they did spend it in each other's company. Yeah, I think that's really nice, actually. And I think there's another bit of learning from this as well,
[16:46.800 -> 16:49.360] which is like, you're not always right.
[16:49.360 -> 16:52.040] I remember Ricky Gervais, he was asked by someone,
[16:52.040 -> 16:55.640] you know, how do you feel about people who are offended by your comedy?
[16:55.640 -> 16:57.800] He said, well, I mean, his answer was, well, just because you're offended
[16:57.800 -> 16:59.120] doesn't mean you're right.
[16:59.120 -> 17:03.160] And I think there's a point there, like, if you don't agree with something
[17:03.160 -> 17:09.520] that someone says on the podcast or it really, like, annoys and angers you, well, consider the fact that maybe you're not right,
[17:09.520 -> 17:13.600] and maybe they are, you know, that's a moment of potential growth for you, which I think is also
[17:13.600 -> 17:18.800] really valuable for people. Or even just take away right and wrong, like, just remove those kind of
[17:18.800 -> 17:24.240] pejorative statements and just go, it's somebody's position, and I don't have to label it, yeah.
[17:24.240 -> 17:27.400] And, you know, mine's my position and neither of us is right.
[17:27.400 -> 17:28.220] Neither of us is wrong.
[17:28.220 -> 17:30.880] We just come in and ask it from different positions.
[17:30.880 -> 17:33.320] Let's hear from a couple more people who have sort of been
[17:33.320 -> 17:34.920] in this space on high performance.
[17:34.920 -> 17:36.360] Who would you like to hear from, Damien?
[17:36.360 -> 17:38.880] I really liked the conversation that we had
[17:38.880 -> 17:42.200] with Jill Scott on this, because she spoke to us
[17:42.200 -> 17:44.880] around the fact that she was obsessed
[17:44.880 -> 17:45.200] from being a young girl growing up in the Northeast o ran hyn, oherwydd roedd y sgwrs hon o ran y ffaith bod hi wedi bod yn ddiddorol o fod yn
[17:45.200 -> 17:50.480] dyn y blaen, yn grwpio i gyd yn y north-wes, ac yn cofio ffotbol, ac fe wnaeth hi yna
[17:50.480 -> 17:54.880] mynd i mewn i'r peth a oedd yn ymddangos yn y gêm amateriaid a'r ffotilion o'r
[17:54.880 -> 17:58.400] broffesiynol. Roedd hi'n dweud bod hi'n unig yn y blynyddoedd pan oedd hi'n sylwi
[17:58.400 -> 18:02.960] bod y pethau a gafodd ei ddweud yn ymwneud â'i gyd, fel nad oedd yn cael cwbodaeth
[18:02.960 -> 18:06.000] ar unrhyw amser a'i nof, neu, rydych chi'n gwybod y gwrthwyneb, mae'n rhaid i'r pethau sy'n cael eu gwneud
[18:06.000 -> 18:08.000] yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:08.000 -> 18:10.000] fod yn ystod y gwrthwyneb.
[18:10.000 -> 18:12.000] Mae'n rhaid i'r pethau sy'n cael eu gwneud
[18:12.000 -> 18:14.000] yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:14.000 -> 18:16.000] fod yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:16.000 -> 18:18.000] fod yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:18.000 -> 18:20.000] yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:20.000 -> 18:22.000] yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:22.000 -> 18:24.000] yn ystod y gwrthwyneb
[18:24.000 -> 18:27.000] yn ystod y gwrthwyneb yn ystodneud â'r fath oedd e'n ei gwybod. Roedd hwn yn siart ddiddorol iawn.
[18:29.000 -> 18:31.000] Mae angen i chi fod yn ymwneud â'r fath. I fod yn llwyr, mae angen i chi fod yn ymwneud â'r fath.
[18:31.000 -> 18:33.000] Ac rwy'n credu, nawr na wnaeth i'n ymdrech,
[18:33.000 -> 18:35.000] rwy'n sylweddoli pa mor ymwneud â'r fath oedd i.
[18:35.000 -> 18:37.000] Felly, er enghraifft,
[18:37.000 -> 18:39.000] rydych chi'n gwylio Netflix,
[18:39.000 -> 18:41.000] mae'n dod i 10 o'c,
[18:41.000 -> 18:43.000] ac rydych chi eisiau gwylio'r nesaf.
[18:43.000 -> 18:45.520] Ond gwysodd i mi fynd i'r bwyd,herwydd roedd gen i ddysgu'r dydd nesaf.
[18:45.520 -> 18:50.480] Roeddwn i'n cael cop o thŷ, roeddwn i'n dweud, 8 o'c, roedd yn dod i 9, 10, roeddwn i'n eisiau un arall,
[18:50.480 -> 18:54.560] dydw i ddim yn ei gael, mae'n llawer o cafene, bydd yn eich gwneud eich ysgafn, mae gennych ddysgu yma yma yma.
[18:54.560 -> 18:59.680] Ac rwy'n credu pan oeddwn i'n ymladd, rwy'n cofio'n dod i'r halen i'r ddwy o'r ddwy o'r thŷ,
[18:59.680 -> 19:07.120] ac roeddwn i'n dweud, oh my god, rydw i'n fod I did just become completely obsessed with it. And I think in them early days,
[19:07.120 -> 19:09.320] there was a lot of moments where I was like,
[19:09.320 -> 19:11.200] how can football fit into life?
[19:11.200 -> 19:13.740] I was traveling from Sunderland to Liverpool.
[19:13.740 -> 19:15.260] I was still seeing my friends.
[19:15.260 -> 19:17.640] I was going out with college and stuff like that.
[19:17.640 -> 19:20.240] But then as the years went on, it was like,
[19:20.240 -> 19:21.920] how does life fit into football?
[19:21.920 -> 19:24.400] And you do end up missing like a lot of things.
[19:24.400 -> 19:26.960] I missed family weddings, christenings,
[19:26.960 -> 19:29.080] I never really could go to friends' birthday parties,
[19:29.080 -> 19:30.120] nothing.
[19:30.120 -> 19:33.320] Basically football became my obsession, my life.
[19:33.320 -> 19:36.080] And I think that just gradually happened.
[19:36.080 -> 19:37.560] I like this thing about being obsessed.
[19:37.560 -> 19:39.800] You know, I'm a big fan of the Stoics, as you know,
[19:39.800 -> 19:41.180] we had Ryan Holiday on the podcast.
[19:41.180 -> 19:43.880] People, if you've not heard the Ryan Holiday episode,
[19:43.880 -> 19:47.840] search for it right now, he was brilliant. And he wrote a book, Damien, called Discipline is
[19:47.840 -> 19:51.480] Destiny. And I think this plays nicely into what, you know, Jill was talking about, what
[19:51.480 -> 19:54.920] Stephen Gerrard spoke about on the podcast, what loads of others have spoken about as
[19:54.920 -> 19:59.720] well. This idea of discipline, and I think that that's an area where we do have to be,
[19:59.720 -> 20:03.200] I think, really clear with people. It's like, if you want to make a really big change in
[20:03.200 -> 20:05.800] life, discipline is often the thing that can be the difference
[20:05.800 -> 20:08.560] between the thing that you really want happening
[20:08.560 -> 20:09.760] and the thing that you really want
[20:09.760 -> 20:11.400] not necessarily coming off.
[20:11.400 -> 20:13.080] It's under appreciated,
[20:13.080 -> 20:15.220] it's probably under discussed as well,
[20:15.220 -> 20:17.960] but the power of discipline is really quite something.
[20:17.960 -> 20:19.580] I think that's what gets people from where they are
[20:19.580 -> 20:21.280] to where they want to be more often than not.
[20:21.280 -> 20:23.280] Is that the drumbeat in the background
[20:23.280 -> 20:26.320] of any high performance is the fact that you show up every day, even when you don't feel like it. y byddai'n bwysig i fod yn fwy o'r amser na ddim. Yw'r drum beat ar y chyfnod o unrhyw gyfrifedd yw'r ffaith y byddwch chi'n cyd-dewis bob dydd,
[20:26.320 -> 20:29.120] er mwyn i chi ddim teimlo fel yw'n ymwneud â'r ffaith
[20:29.120 -> 20:32.240] y bydd eich emociau'n cael eu cyflawni o'r ffaith
[20:32.240 -> 20:36.160] y dyma'r hyn y gwnawn i ac y dyma'r hyn y gwnawn i.
[20:36.160 -> 20:39.200] Rwy'n credu, ie, rydych chi'n iawn, nad yw'n glamorus,
[20:39.200 -> 20:42.080] nid yw'n sexy, nid yw'n profil fawr
[20:42.080 -> 20:45.560] ac rwy'n credu, weithiau, yn ein sgwyddo o gael cyfrifeddau, y sylwadau o edrych ar y 1% sy'n gwneud i ni wahanol, It's not high profile. And I think sometimes in our search for marginal gains,
[20:45.560 -> 20:49.560] the idea of looking for that 1% that makes us different,
[20:49.560 -> 20:52.640] I think sometimes we negate the fact that 99% of it
[20:52.640 -> 20:54.200] is the consistency of showing up
[20:54.200 -> 20:56.280] and just doing the basics every day.
[20:56.280 -> 20:58.160] And I think that we also have to remind ourselves
[20:58.160 -> 21:01.080] of the cost of temptation or of not doing it.
[21:01.080 -> 21:03.740] I think once people understand that actually indulging
[21:03.740 -> 21:07.680] or doing that thing that they think they're really gonna love might actually be
[21:07.680 -> 21:10.900] worse than resisting, I think the urge begins to lose its appeal.
[21:10.900 -> 21:14.720] Well you're really good on this aren't you? Like I remember you, like what's that
[21:14.720 -> 21:19.480] analogy you, that you told me about where when you've got a phone call to do, the
[21:19.480 -> 21:23.040] conversation you have in your head that you might not be looking forward to
[21:23.040 -> 21:26.540] the phone call but how you square that circle so
[21:27.060 -> 21:28.960] For a long time. I was a procrastinator
[21:28.960 -> 21:33.280] I would never do things that I didn't want to do because I thought it'd be too painful and it's only when you actually
[21:33.320 -> 21:40.280] Do that thing that you realize the real pain is the suffering in advance. It's the thinking about it. It's the fearing it
[21:40.280 -> 21:42.820] It's the putting it off. It's the not doing it and then actually
[21:43.400 -> 21:45.400] You realize that self-control
[21:45.400 -> 21:47.280] actually becomes the real pleasure.
[21:47.280 -> 21:49.760] Like I'm 44 and not in the very best of shape
[21:49.760 -> 21:51.180] and my bones creak and everything else,
[21:51.180 -> 21:54.400] but I'm trying to lose a bit of weight, right?
[21:54.400 -> 21:57.440] And the real joy at the moment is just proving to myself
[21:57.440 -> 21:58.280] that I can do it.
[21:58.280 -> 22:00.340] It's like, can you just be disciplined?
[22:00.340 -> 22:02.960] Can I be disciplined, right, for three months?
[22:02.960 -> 22:04.600] Can I stick to a really rigid,
[22:04.600 -> 22:10.040] really strict diet for three months? And actually, the pleasure that I would get from eating
[22:10.040 -> 22:13.880] five bags of crisps in the evening when I'm a bit peckish or letting myself down, I'm
[22:13.880 -> 22:16.520] actually getting more pleasure now from getting to the end of the day and going, you know
[22:16.520 -> 22:22.640] what, I demonstrated real self-control, which is great. And I think discipline, was it Abraham
[22:22.640 -> 22:25.880] Lincoln that said discipline is choosing between what you want now and what you want most.
[22:26.200 -> 22:26.960] Yes, it was.
[22:27.000 -> 22:29.320] And I think it's a lovely way of looking at it.
[22:29.360 -> 22:31.240] What do you really want?
[22:31.600 -> 22:36.120] If you really want that thing, then right now be disciplined and you will get there.
[22:36.800 -> 22:37.920] I think it's a nice way to think.
[22:37.920 -> 22:44.000] And if you haven't heard the conversation with Ryan Holiday, I can't, I can't tell you how much.
[22:44.000 -> 22:46.020] I mean, I was so excited that day to chat to him,
[22:46.020 -> 22:46.860] wasn't I?
[22:46.860 -> 22:47.680] Yeah.
[22:47.680 -> 22:50.100] Yeah. Do you remember that he sort of came to us,
[22:50.100 -> 22:50.940] didn't he, from his studio?
[22:50.940 -> 22:53.340] And what I was really impressed about was his commitment
[22:53.340 -> 22:56.060] of getting his book titles tattooed on himself.
[22:56.060 -> 22:56.900] Yeah.
[22:56.900 -> 22:57.740] Didn't it?
[22:57.740 -> 22:58.820] But I just thought I was brilliant
[22:58.820 -> 23:01.140] because he had discipline, his destiny,
[23:01.140 -> 23:02.340] on his right arm, didn't he?
[23:02.340 -> 23:05.520] And he had the obstacle is the way on his left arm, which,
[23:06.160 -> 23:11.040] you know, these are messages that this is a guy who literally lives the messages that he's writing
[23:11.040 -> 23:16.160] about. I would like to pick up on a final conversation. It might be our most listened
[23:16.160 -> 23:20.080] to episode. It was certainly one that sort of really changed the game for us when we welcomed
[23:20.080 -> 23:23.360] Johnny Wilkinson onto High Performance. We've spoken to Johnny on two occasions.
[23:21.720 -> 23:25.000] Welcome to Johnny Wilkinson on to high performance. We've spoken to Johnny on two occasions.
[23:25.000 -> 23:27.160] And this is what he discussed with us
[23:27.160 -> 23:29.640] when it comes to sacrifice and happiness
[23:29.640 -> 23:31.640] and his new perspective.
[23:32.980 -> 23:36.120] On a Saturday afternoon, for the majority of the time,
[23:36.120 -> 23:40.320] between half two and four o'clock, I was in that state.
[23:40.320 -> 23:42.780] That's why I was able to do what I did.
[23:42.780 -> 23:44.660] The thing was, is I just created an idea,
[23:44.660 -> 23:47.800] as most people do, that that state is revealed
[23:47.800 -> 23:51.600] or earned through great suffering and sacrifice.
[23:51.600 -> 23:54.800] So there seems to be this deep understanding,
[23:54.800 -> 23:57.600] which I've explored and experienced otherwise since,
[23:57.600 -> 24:00.600] that by suffering and stressing and fighting,
[24:00.600 -> 24:04.300] you somehow end up in a joyful, flowing state.
[24:04.300 -> 24:09.040] Whereas my understanding, my own experience of it tended to be that by spending my time suffering
[24:10.160 -> 24:13.560] Stressing and sacrificing what I did was create stronger habits of suffering
[24:14.240 -> 24:17.120] stressing and sacrificing it's a bit like the whole kind of
[24:17.780 -> 24:22.680] You know when I grow up when I get my car when I get my promotion when I get my family when I get my
[24:22.680 -> 24:25.980] Big house when I get to retirement, that's when my joy is going to hit me,
[24:25.980 -> 24:27.540] when I've got enough money.
[24:27.540 -> 24:29.300] But then even when you've got the boat in the,
[24:29.300 -> 24:31.900] in the, you know, in the, in the sunny port,
[24:31.900 -> 24:33.860] you're still suffering and setting.
[24:33.860 -> 24:35.300] I still maintain, you know, Damien,
[24:35.300 -> 24:39.460] that someone like Johnny had to be like Johnny was
[24:39.460 -> 24:42.180] when he was an international rugby player.
[24:42.180 -> 24:44.600] And I think it's great that he realizes
[24:44.600 -> 24:46.560] that there is so much more to his life now. Yes, I agree. And I think there was parallels with him, oedd yn chwaraewr rygbi gweithredol. Ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn dda fod yn sylweddoli bod yna llawer mwy i'w bywyd nawr.
[24:46.560 -> 24:47.840] Iawn, rwy'n cymryd.
[24:47.840 -> 24:48.640] Ac rwy'n credu bod yna
[24:48.640 -> 24:49.600] cyd-drethoedd gyda ni
[24:49.600 -> 24:50.960] gyda Dylan Hartley
[24:50.960 -> 24:51.840] pan gwnethom ni ei gynnwys.
[24:51.840 -> 24:52.640] Oherwydd roedd Dylan yn sôn
[24:52.640 -> 24:54.560] mewn ffyrdd yn ymwneud â'r ffordd
[24:54.560 -> 24:55.600] y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil
[24:55.600 -> 24:56.640] y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil
[24:56.640 -> 25:05.120] y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil y byddai'n ei ymwneud â'r ymchwil y byddai'n ei ymwneud ag yw'n ddweud wrthym y byddai'n ei ymwneud ag yw'n dweud wrthym y byddai'n ei ymwneud ag yw'n dweud wrthym y byddai'n ei ymwneud ag yw'n dweud wrthym y byddai'n ei ymw wneud y cyfrifau a ddim byddai'r un arall yn ei wneud,
[25:05.120 -> 25:11.120] oherwydd roedd yn rhoi'r sylwad o hyder iddo ddod i leoedd a dydyn nhw ddim yn ymdrech i,
[25:11.760 -> 25:15.920] sy'n eu galluogi i fynd a chwarae gyda'r hynny o ffyrdd. Felly, rwy'n credu eich bod yn ddweud,
[25:15.920 -> 25:26.000] y byddai'r sylwad o fwrdd yn ymwneud â'r hyn sy'n and sy'n ei angen, gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol iawn i lawer o bobl.
[25:26.000 -> 25:29.000] Rydw i wedi clywed Steve Redgrave sôn am y syniad hwn
[25:29.000 -> 25:32.000] y byddai wedi'i hyfforddi i'w llosu pan oedd yn y barcoed,
[25:32.000 -> 25:35.000] oherwydd gwybod y gallai hi ddod allan gyda'r pên hwnnw
[25:35.000 -> 25:37.000] ac nid oedd ei hymgyrchion yn gallu ei wneud
[25:37.000 -> 25:40.000] pan oedd yn mynd i'r strwythau penodol o gyrraedd meddal gol.
[25:40.000 -> 25:44.000] Mewn amser, mae hynny'n rhoi llawer o hyder i'r cymorth
[25:44.000 -> 25:46.160] i'r cymorthwyr i'w credu bod hynny'n mynd ymlaen.
[25:46.160 -> 25:53.200] Ond fel y mae Jonny yn dweud, dyna dydyn ni ddim yn ymwneud â chael llwyddiant yn y byd,
[25:53.200 -> 25:59.840] pan fydd e'n father, yn partner, yn ymwneud â phwytoedd eraill yn ei fyd.
[25:59.840 -> 26:05.800] Roedd yn sylweddoli ei bod yn rhaid iddo fod yn ddigon gweithredol i ddeall bod y ffordd honno wedi gweithio am ychydig o amser, ond nid oedd ymwneud â chynhyrchu'r byd ar gyfer iddo. he realised that he also had to be mentally flexible enough to understand that that way worked for a while,
[26:05.800 -> 26:09.340] but it wasn't a long-term sustainable approach for him.
[26:09.340 -> 26:11.240] I love hearing about these old episodes, you know.
[26:11.240 -> 26:13.840] It just reminds me of what an absolute pleasure it is
[26:13.840 -> 26:15.380] to sit and have these conversations.
[26:15.380 -> 26:17.320] And we're only pulling out small little snippets,
[26:17.320 -> 26:19.880] but, you know, those conversations come on
[26:19.880 -> 26:20.840] for an hour or more,
[26:20.840 -> 26:23.480] and the whole thing is fascinating, isn't it?
[26:23.480 -> 26:27.520] Yeah, and again, the thing that I always feel so proud of whendiddorol, dydy'n i? Ie, ac eto, y peth rydw i bob amser yn teimlo'n fawr iawn wrth ddweud i bobl yw
[26:27.520 -> 26:33.440] mae'n llwyr i chi fynd a chysylltu. Dyma ddim beth y mae angen i chi fynd a paithu arno.
[26:33.440 -> 26:38.720] Mae hyn yn rhai o'r gweithwyr mwyaf o'r byd, yn rhaid i chi rannu'r syniadau, y technigau
[26:38.720 -> 26:43.120] a'r wylioedd a ddynt i ddweud ar eu gwaith ar gyfrif. Ac os ydyn nhw'n clywed hynny,
[26:43.120 -> 27:07.300] a ddim yn mynd i ddweud ar y cyfrifiad, mynd i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, i gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in gyd, in g Yeah, I always find it really helpful for us as well, but I think it's important for people to understand this that we don't have
[27:07.300 -> 27:12.900] The answers we're searching as much as they are and I think these conversations often help me make sense of it
[27:12.900 -> 27:17.980] Yeah, absolutely. And look, you know, we we certainly don't have all the answers, you know, maybe the worst will happen
[27:17.980 -> 27:24.060] Maybe it won't but until that time happens or that time comes the only thing the only bit of advice that we can offer you
[27:24.500 -> 27:28.000] It's just to look forwards with positivity, you know, we find that the people we speak to on
[27:28.000 -> 27:34.880] the podcast, optimism and positivity are the two most important traits. And also, I think a lot of
[27:34.880 -> 27:38.480] these people have learned to be indifferent to the things that make no difference. They're not
[27:38.480 -> 27:42.640] wrapping their lives up with anger about what other people are up to, other people's successes,
[27:42.640 -> 27:47.520] other people's failures. You know, they realise that their own failure and the things that they lack
[27:47.520 -> 27:51.960] are actually the things that educate them, the things that cleanse them, the things that
[27:51.960 -> 27:55.200] teach them stuff, you know, because life is short, right?
[27:55.200 -> 28:00.360] If you forget the past, neglect the present and fear the future, I love that, then you're
[28:00.360 -> 28:01.360] in trouble.
[28:01.360 -> 28:07.280] That was a Seneca quote, life is short and anxious for those who forget the past, neglect the present and fear the future. So if we can...
[28:07.280 -> 28:10.400] You didn't need to mention the Seneca bit, Jake, I was impressed.
[28:10.400 -> 28:14.240] I'm not claiming that as my own. I am not claiming that as my own.
[28:14.240 -> 28:15.680] Damien, appreciate that, mate.
[28:15.680 -> 28:17.040] Thanks, mate. Loved it.
[28:18.500 -> 28:20.560] you