Walking a mile in the shoes of a Premier League referee, with Anthony Taylor

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Raw Transcript with Timestamps

[00:00.000 -> 00:03.280] Hi there, you're listening to a bite-sized episode of High Performance.
[00:03.280 -> 00:10.240] Look, we know that you can't always spare 60 or 90 minutes or sometimes even two hours to sit and listen to the
[00:10.240 -> 00:14.480] enlightening, in-depth but long conversations that we have on this podcast.
[00:14.480 -> 00:17.680] And so, if that's you, then this is the episode for you.
[00:17.680 -> 00:23.200] Every single Friday, we share some learnings from a guest who's joined us previously on High Performance.
[00:23.200 -> 00:28.280] We share it and then I'll talk about it at the back end. So let's get straight to it then. This is when we were
[00:28.280 -> 00:32.840] joined by football referee Anthony Taylor, who gave us the kind of insight that we don't
[00:32.840 -> 00:37.240] normally get into the world of the referee. And I think the most important thing for us
[00:37.240 -> 00:42.840] all to do with an episode like this is to suspend our opinion and put empathy at the
[00:42.840 -> 00:46.360] centre of our thoughts. Here's a small taste of
[00:46.360 -> 00:50.400] when Anthony Taylor joined us on high performance.
[00:50.400 -> 00:56.720] You make an incorrect decision on the field because your position is wrong. Your angle
[00:56.720 -> 01:02.320] and your view is not as good as it could be. So there's a really good example from a few
[01:02.320 -> 01:05.780] years ago at Swansea where I gave a penalty for
[01:05.780 -> 01:09.720] handball and it was actually handball by the attacker.
[01:09.720 -> 01:17.160] But because in that particular moment I'd lost concentration, I was lazy, I'd got totally
[01:17.160 -> 01:23.800] the wrong position, the angle you're looking at is, it just makes it look like the defender
[01:23.800 -> 01:24.800] handballed it.
[01:24.800 -> 01:26.080] Now people listening to that will go,
[01:26.080 -> 01:28.200] well, that's just a ridiculous way of explaining it.
[01:28.200 -> 01:34.280] And how can you not see that the handball is by the attacker?
[01:34.280 -> 01:37.200] Well, my challenge to anybody who thinks that
[01:37.200 -> 01:42.160] is to truly understand the process you've got to go through.
[01:42.160 -> 01:51.280] Give it a go, because it would even happen in junior football. You will sometimes totally misjudge something in a split second. And so that example
[01:51.280 -> 01:56.880] at Swansea was down to laziness and poor positioning, pure and simple.
[01:56.880 -> 02:02.440] And how does the scrutiny process work after the game? Because I think this is something
[02:02.440 -> 02:06.500] that also leans towards the resilience you have to have to do your job.
[02:06.500 -> 02:09.000] I mean, you literally have someone give you a mark, right?
[02:09.000 -> 02:11.500] And tell you how well you've done on that day.
[02:11.500 -> 02:14.000] We have two people give us a mark, not just one.
[02:15.000 -> 02:17.500] So we have two parallel analysis systems.
[02:17.500 -> 02:20.000] So we have a technical system
[02:20.000 -> 02:24.000] that grades every single decision that's made in the match.
[02:24.000 -> 02:26.000] So you end up with a percentage accuracy.
[02:26.000 -> 02:31.000] But then we have the parallel system is run by the Premier League.
[02:31.000 -> 02:35.000] So it's not a technical evaluation.
[02:35.000 -> 02:38.000] That's where an ex-player or an ex-manager is there
[02:38.000 -> 02:42.000] looking at your performance from a playing perspective.
[02:42.000 -> 02:45.800] And that system is what the clubs feed into as well.
[02:45.800 -> 02:49.000] They have a say in what their opinions are.
[02:49.000 -> 02:52.240] And so everybody's got an opinion on what's going on.
[02:52.240 -> 02:54.800] And sometimes those opinions are formed,
[02:54.800 -> 02:58.840] which don't actually fit in with what the laws
[02:58.840 -> 02:59.720] of the game are.
[02:59.720 -> 03:02.820] We might be using interpretation from four years ago.
[03:02.820 -> 03:05.360] So it's all well and good scrutinizing
[03:05.360 -> 03:12.640] but you still have to have that balance to truly understand what's being
[03:12.640 -> 03:13.760] analyzed and why.
[03:13.760 -> 03:16.960] See but what I find fascinating here is that we're talking a
[03:16.960 -> 03:22.880] lot about mistakes that you've made and errors and yet 80 to 85 percent of your
[03:22.880 -> 03:25.320] decision-making is correct and is right.
[03:25.320 -> 03:29.560] So how much time do you spend looking at what you've done well before you
[03:29.560 -> 03:30.880] start to look at where you can improve?
[03:30.880 -> 03:33.240] I spend a lot of time, not many other people do.
[03:33.800 -> 03:34.720] It's higher than that though.
[03:34.720 -> 03:35.720] Like, what is it?
[03:35.720 -> 03:37.480] Cause I know you have a number at the end of a season.
[03:37.480 -> 03:39.040] Yeah, figure wise, I'm not too sure.
[03:39.040 -> 03:40.520] It's up in the 99%.
[03:40.520 -> 03:41.200] But you're right.
[03:41.240 -> 03:43.440] And it goes back to what Jake was saying before.
[03:43.440 -> 03:48.880] Everybody only focuses on the right and the wrong.
[03:48.880 -> 03:56.300] And if one decision's wrong, that one decision, if we're being brutally honest, that one decision
[03:56.300 -> 04:00.480] hasn't cost the result.
[04:00.480 -> 04:02.320] It's not cost the team the result.
[04:02.320 -> 04:11.000] It might have played a part, but there's lots of other facets that have contributed to the result. Players missing an open goal, players missing a penalty
[04:11.960 -> 04:13.960] substitution or tactical changes
[04:16.040 -> 04:21.100] The emotional reactions of making people do things wrong. So again, I'm not saying
[04:21.640 -> 04:25.880] We don't have some kind of impact in terms of making a wrong decision. Of course we do
[04:26.520 -> 04:28.520] But again that that balance
[04:29.180 -> 04:31.360] one refereeing decision doesn't
[04:33.680 -> 04:34.760] Doesn't settle the match
[04:34.760 -> 04:39.680] You know this what this is making me think about is that I've done 10 years of presenting football programs
[04:39.680 -> 04:49.360] Maybe 60 or 70 games a year. That's over 500 games of football I've hosted. I don't think we've ever analysed a brilliant refereeing decision and talked about how on
[04:49.360 -> 04:52.800] earth did he see that, how did he get that right, how did he deal with the pressure from
[04:52.800 -> 04:56.120] the players, how did he cope with the crowd in that moment, how did he communicate his
[04:56.120 -> 04:58.760] decision to get the players back onside?
[04:58.760 -> 04:59.760] Never, not once.
[04:59.760 -> 05:03.960] There's two or three examples from last weekend's matches where goals have been scored because
[05:03.960 -> 05:07.680] the referees allowed play to continue after something's happened
[05:07.680 -> 05:11.840] and the team's benefited from it, but nobody wants to talk about it.
[05:11.840 -> 05:18.080] So what message would you like to share, given this opportunity, with people?
[05:18.080 -> 05:21.680] How would you like us to view referees?
[05:21.680 -> 05:28.760] More understanding and more empathy. So yes, mistakes are made and we're
[05:28.760 -> 05:35.440] far from perfect, but there's many other facets that contribute to a result of a football
[05:35.440 -> 05:42.720] match. And so before you start trying to blame one individual, maybe try and consider, very
[05:42.720 -> 05:45.480] difficult I appreciate objectively after a team's loss.
[05:45.480 -> 05:51.160] But, you know, consider the things that go into what's been decided
[05:51.160 -> 05:55.280] and try and understand why something's been done.
[05:55.280 -> 05:59.280] And of course, people will always use the argument about consistency.
[05:59.280 -> 06:04.240] People highlight a catalogue of situations that may have gone against one team.
[06:04.240 -> 06:05.520] But again, that's
[06:05.520 -> 06:12.480] sometimes very biasly slanted. So that is the kind of disarming, honest and enlightening
[06:12.480 -> 06:16.320] conversations that this podcast is all about. Everyone has an opinion about referees,
[06:17.040 -> 06:20.560] but very rarely do people have the kind of information about a decision that you've just
[06:20.560 -> 06:26.800] heard there. Listen, if you want to hear the whole episode with Anthony Taylor, it's episode 106 of the High Performance Podcast,
[06:26.800 -> 06:28.500] or just go to where you get your podcasts,
[06:28.500 -> 06:30.900] type in Anthony Taylor, you'll find the episode.
[06:30.900 -> 06:33.200] I think there's a couple of really important things here.
[06:33.200 -> 06:36.200] The first one is about communication.
[06:36.200 -> 06:39.900] I think one of the reasons why we don't understand enough
[06:39.900 -> 06:42.100] about the pressures on referees is because they don't tell us.
[06:42.100 -> 06:48.160] I know that Howard Webb is now in charge of refereeing in the Premier League. I know he's talking more, but I hope he finds a way to
[06:48.160 -> 06:53.840] allow his referees to explain their decisions. Not so that they can be scrutinised to the nth degree,
[06:53.840 -> 06:58.000] but so they can have the right to put across their side of the story. I think the more that
[06:58.000 -> 07:02.400] we understand about the challenges that someone's facing in a moment, the more we can come to that
[07:02.400 -> 07:06.340] with empathy and the more empathy we have, then the more open we are
[07:06.340 -> 07:08.460] to hearing their lived experience.
[07:08.460 -> 07:09.720] And I think that that's what we've had there
[07:09.720 -> 07:10.560] from Anthony Taylor.
[07:10.560 -> 07:11.840] You know, you can't hear that
[07:11.840 -> 07:13.240] and then criticise him for the decision
[07:13.240 -> 07:15.420] because you say, well, you knew you got it wrong.
[07:15.420 -> 07:17.080] You admitted you had a lazy moment.
[07:17.080 -> 07:19.800] You know, it doesn't excuse it,
[07:19.800 -> 07:21.360] but let's also remember that, you know,
[07:21.360 -> 07:24.200] 99% of decisions that referees make,
[07:24.200 -> 07:29.600] and by the way, they're making thousands of decisions over the course of a 90 minute match that are correct,
[07:29.600 -> 07:32.440] but it's human nature to focus on the negatives.
[07:32.440 -> 07:36.000] So therefore, how do we make that an easier process for everyone?
[07:36.000 -> 07:40.000] Well, we communicate, and it's exactly the same for you, with your children, in your
[07:40.000 -> 07:44.800] workplace, with your colleagues, in the schools that you're working in, in your industry,
[07:44.800 -> 07:48.280] communication is vital. You have to communicate the challenges in your
[07:48.280 -> 07:51.560] life to your colleagues so they can understand you better, but you've got to
[07:51.560 -> 07:55.280] know them better as well. You know, let me ask you, the person that sits
[07:55.280 -> 07:58.600] next to you at work or the person that you work closest with, what's their
[07:58.600 -> 08:04.360] favourite food? How long have they been married for? What's the name of their pet?
[08:04.360 -> 08:05.120] How many children do they have? Where do they like to go married for? What's the name of their pet?
[08:05.120 -> 08:06.680] How many children do they have?
[08:06.680 -> 08:08.960] Where do they like to go on holiday?
[08:08.960 -> 08:10.440] What's been the hardest moment of their life?
[08:10.440 -> 08:11.440] When did they last cry?
[08:11.440 -> 08:15.600] Have they had a trauma in the last 12 months?
[08:15.600 -> 08:19.760] You need to be able to answer those questions about the people in your life, apart from
[08:19.760 -> 08:21.700] just your family.
[08:21.700 -> 08:23.420] And that's where we have to work harder in this world.
[08:23.420 -> 08:29.120] We have to understand and know other people. And I think the second key thing here is don't
[08:29.120 -> 08:33.860] focus on the failure. Don't focus on the negative. You know we spoke to the
[08:33.860 -> 08:36.760] brilliant actor Matthew McConaughey on this podcast and he told us about green
[08:36.760 -> 08:42.160] lights. He told us about looking for those great moments in your life. Rather
[08:42.160 -> 08:44.700] than looking for the negatives and working out why they've happened, look at
[08:44.700 -> 08:45.760] the great moments and think what was going on in my life. Rather than looking for the negatives and working out why they've happened, look at the great moments and think,
[08:45.760 -> 08:48.560] what was going on in my life at that time
[08:48.560 -> 08:50.920] that made me feel fantastic?
[08:50.920 -> 08:54.280] Focus on the green lights, look for the positive.
[08:54.280 -> 08:57.240] Because if you look for the negative
[08:57.240 -> 08:59.320] and the failure in everyone, you have to do it to yourself.
[08:59.320 -> 09:01.840] And that is not a healthy way to live, my friends.
[09:01.840 -> 09:04.520] So let's be empathetic, let's look for the good stuff,
[09:04.520 -> 09:09.840] and let's try and understand people around us a bit more. Thanks for listening to this short bite-sized episode
[09:09.840 -> 09:11.520] of the High Performance Podcast.