Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Fri, 08 Dec 2023 01:00:07 GMT
Duration:
1:01:21
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
This episode explores the greatest lessons learnt from a 15 year Test cricket career, and why we should always be searching for fun and enjoyment.
Stuart Broad is a former England cricketer and is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest Test match bowlers of all time. Having stepped back from cricket earlier this year, Stuart explains the process behind this decision; why he made that choice and why he doesn’t like the word ‘retirement’. He shares the conversation he had with Ben Stokes before his final game in the closely fought 2023 Ashes series.
Jake and Stuart discuss the biggest lessons from his career, including when Stuart got hit for six sixes in a single over; an event which prompted him to establish processes for looking after his mental and physical well-being.
In this episode, Stuart shares insights into his personal growth journey, including the adoption of note-taking to manage emotions and anxiety, and fostering connections with teammates through honesty and self-reflection. He discusses the challenges he faced throughout his career and unveils his strategies for dealing with setbacks and creating new goals. Learn about the psychological techniques Stuart used to stay at the top of his game, inspired by lessons from Tiger Woods, Brendan McCullum and Ben Stokes.
This episode was recorded during a live event at Gillian Lynne, London to celebrate Stuart’s brand new book autobiography Speaking Broadly: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/stuart-broad-the-autobiography-pre-order-now-stuart-broad/7534896?ean=9781399729345
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**Learning from Failure and Embracing Enjoyment in a Cricket Career: Stuart Broad's Journey**
Stuart Broad, a former England cricketer, shares valuable insights from his 15-year Test cricket career, emphasizing the importance of finding fun and enjoyment in the game.
**Key Points:**
1. **Changing Mindset:** Stuart advocates for a shift in perspective, moving away from the term "retirement" and viewing it as a change of career path.
2. **Preserving Enjoyment:** Throughout his career, Stuart prioritized fun and enjoyment, focusing on the process rather than solely on outcomes.
3. **Mental Preparation:** Following a devastating experience of conceding six sixes in an over, Stuart developed a mental routine called "warrior mode" to enhance his focus and consistency.
4. **Routine and Consistency:** Stuart implemented a consistent routine before bowling his first ball, which included running over the boundary's edge to enter his "battle arena."
5. **Physical and Mental Balance:** While acknowledging the importance of physical fitness, Stuart emphasizes the significance of mental preparation and routine in achieving success.
6. **Note-Taking and Self-Reflection:** Stuart adopted the practice of note-taking to manage emotions and anxiety, fostering self-awareness and growth.
7. **Honesty and Self-Reflection:** Honesty and self-reflection were crucial for Stuart in building strong connections with teammates, promoting a culture of trust and vulnerability.
8. **Adaptability and Learning:** Stuart embraced the concept of continuous learning, seeking inspiration from various sources, including Tiger Woods, Brendon McCullum, and Ben Stokes.
9. **Psychological Techniques:** Stuart employed psychological techniques to stay at the top of his game, drawing inspiration from successful athletes like Tiger Woods and Ben Stokes.
10. **Embracing Challenges:** Stuart highlights the importance of embracing challenges and setting new goals, even in the face of setbacks.
11. **Overcoming Imposter Syndrome:** Stuart acknowledges experiencing imposter syndrome early in his career but overcame it by focusing on his strengths and learning from experienced teammates.
12. **Mentorship and Support:** Stuart emphasizes the positive impact of mentors like Otis Gibson, who provided valuable guidance and helped shape his career.
13. **The Power of Routine:** Stuart stresses the significance of establishing a routine to maintain focus and consistency, particularly in high-pressure situations.
14. **The Importance of Fun:** Stuart reiterates the importance of finding enjoyment in the game, emphasizing that cricket should be about more than just winning and losing.
15. **Transitioning to a New Chapter:** Stuart reflects on the emotional rollercoaster he experienced in the final days of his career, ultimately finding peace and excitement in the transition to a new phase of life.
**Overall Message:**
Stuart Broad's journey in cricket highlights the significance of mental preparation, routine, and the pursuit of enjoyment in achieving success. He encourages athletes to embrace challenges, learn from setbacks, and maintain a positive mindset throughout their careers.
**Summary of the Podcast Episode: "The Greatest Lessons Learnt from a 15-Year Test Cricket Career and the Pursuit of Fun and Enjoyment"**
**Introduction:**
* This episode delves into the lessons learned from a 15-year Test cricket career and emphasizes the importance of seeking fun and enjoyment in the game.
* Stuart Broad, a former England cricketer and one of the greatest Test match bowlers, shares his insights on his decision to step back from cricket and the process behind it.
**Key Points:**
1. **The Importance of Mental and Physical Well-being:**
* Broad highlights the significance of maintaining mental and physical well-being for athletes.
* He discusses the incident where he was hit for six sixes in a single over, which prompted him to establish processes for looking after his mental and physical health.
2. **Note-Taking for Emotional Management:**
* Broad emphasizes the role of note-taking in managing emotions and anxiety.
* He explains how writing down his thoughts and feelings helped him connect with his emotions and identify areas for improvement.
3. **Fostering Connections with Teammates:**
* Broad stresses the importance of fostering genuine connections with teammates through honesty and self-reflection.
* He shares how open communication and vulnerability helped him build strong relationships within the team.
4. **Overcoming Setbacks and Creating New Goals:**
* Broad discusses the challenges he faced throughout his career and his strategies for dealing with setbacks.
* He emphasizes the significance of setting new goals and maintaining a positive mindset to overcome obstacles.
5. **Psychological Techniques for Peak Performance:**
* Broad reveals the psychological techniques he employed to stay at the top of his game.
* He mentions drawing inspiration from figures like Tiger Woods, Brendan McCullum, and Ben Stokes, who influenced his approach to mental preparation.
6. **Creating a Warrior Mode Mindset:**
* Broad explains the concept of "Warrior Mode," a mindset he adopted to enhance his focus and intensity on the field.
* He describes the process of preparing for a game, including visualizing the crowd's reactions and practicing specific bowling techniques.
7. **Assassin Mode for Managing Emotions:**
* Broad introduces "Assassin Mode," a technique he used to bring his emotions down when they became too intense.
* He emphasizes the importance of disconnecting from the game momentarily to regain composure and focus.
8. **The Power of Note-Making:**
* Broad highlights the therapeutic value of note-making and how it helped him connect with his emotions and set clear goals.
* He explains how writing down his thoughts and feelings allowed him to review and reflect on his performance.
9. **Positive Mindset and Energy:**
* Broad discusses the importance of maintaining a positive mindset and spreading positive energy within the team.
* He emphasizes the role of positive language and small gestures in creating a supportive and upbeat atmosphere in the changing room.
10. **Adaptability and Realism:**
* Broad describes himself as an "adaptable realist," a mindset that allowed him to embrace change and focus on tangible goals.
* He explains how he used feedback from coaches and teammates to adapt his strategies and techniques.
11. **Dealing with Failure and Trigger Thoughts:**
* Broad addresses the challenges of dealing with failure in cricket and the importance of having trigger thoughts to help him cope.
* He emphasizes the value of seeking advice from teammates and engaging with the crowd to regain focus and motivation.
12. **The Role of Superstitions:**
* Broad shares his experience with superstitions, such as looking above the stands after being hit for a six, to help him stay focused and reset his mindset.
13. **Brendan McCullum's Influence:**
* Broad discusses the impact of Brendan McCullum's coaching style on the England cricket team.
* He highlights McCullum's emphasis on playing with freedom, focusing on the process, and embracing a positive mindset.
**Conclusion:**
* Broad emphasizes the importance of seeking fun and enjoyment in cricket, both for players and fans.
* He encourages athletes to embrace the challenges of the game and to find ways to maintain their passion and enthusiasm throughout their careers.
# **Summary of the Podcast: The High-Performance Life of Stuart Broad**
## **Introduction**
- This podcast episode delves into the valuable lessons learned from a remarkable 15-year Test cricket career and emphasizes the importance of finding joy and fun in life's pursuits.
- Former England cricketer Stuart Broad, widely recognized as one of the greatest Test match bowlers, shares his insights on his decision to retire, his relationship with Ben Stokes, and the key elements that contributed to his success.
## **Navigating Setbacks and Embracing Positivity**
- Broad discusses the pivotal moment when he was hit for six consecutive sixes in a single over, an event that prompted him to establish processes for maintaining his mental and physical well-being.
- He emphasizes the significance of note-taking to manage emotions and anxiety and highlights the positive impact of fostering strong connections with teammates through honesty and self-reflection.
- Broad sheds light on the challenges he faced throughout his career and unveils his strategies for dealing with setbacks and creating new goals.
## **The Influence of Psychological Techniques and Inspirational Leaders**
- Broad reveals the psychological techniques he employed to stay at the top of his game, drawing inspiration from prominent figures such as Tiger Woods, Brendan McCullum, and Ben Stokes.
- He shares an anecdote about Brendon McCullum's unwavering belief in the team's ability to win, even when faced with adversity, and how this mindset led to a remarkable turnaround in England's cricketing fortunes.
- Broad also discusses Ben Stokes' exceptional leadership qualities, particularly his authenticity and unpredictability, which mirrored the team's aggressive and entertaining style of play.
## **The Power of Consistency and Continuous Improvement**
- Broad emphasizes the importance of consistency in mental preparation and the relentless pursuit of continuous improvement as non-negotiable behaviors for achieving success.
- He stresses the value of pushing boundaries and challenging the status quo to drive personal growth and development.
- Broad shares his regret for neglecting his note-taking routine during the final months of his career and acknowledges the importance of maintaining these habits for maintaining a high-performance mindset.
## **Advice for Aspiring Athletes and the Importance of Legacy**
- Broad offers advice to young athletes, highlighting the significance of starting early with note-taking to enhance self-awareness and identify patterns in their performance.
- He reflects on the concept of legacy and expresses pride in having played a role in elevating the status of the England cricket team and leaving a lasting impact on the sport.
- Broad emphasizes the importance of challenging limitations while staying true to one's strengths and working on areas that require improvement.
## **Conclusion**
- The podcast concludes with Broad's golden rule for living a high-performance life: challenge your limitations but learn and stick by your strengths.
- The host commends Broad for his captivating insights and encourages listeners to seek inspiration from his journey as they navigate their own paths to success.
[00:00.000 -> 00:05.040] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the
[00:05.040 -> 00:10.380] minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside
[00:10.380 -> 00:15.680] Professor Damian Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes, and struggles of our guests,
[00:15.680 -> 00:22.880] allowing us all to explore, be challenged, and to grow. Here's what's coming up today.
[00:22.880 -> 00:26.240] These guys have spent money to come and watch. They don't want to see you block the ball.
[00:26.240 -> 00:27.060] Go and win the game.
[00:27.060 -> 00:29.040] And if you lose trying to win, we're all happy,
[00:29.040 -> 00:30.180] but go and win the game.
[00:30.180 -> 00:32.120] People have spent the money to come and watch you here
[00:32.120 -> 00:33.080] at Lord's at home of cricket.
[00:33.080 -> 00:33.920] Entertain them.
[00:33.920 -> 00:36.120] Go and hit boundaries, hit sixes,
[00:36.120 -> 00:38.840] you know, try and take wickets at every ball.
[00:38.840 -> 00:41.880] If you can hold on as long to that feeling
[00:41.880 -> 00:42.840] that you used to get as a kid
[00:42.840 -> 00:44.740] when you open the curtains on a Saturday morning
[00:44.740 -> 00:47.840] and you're praying for it not to be raining, you know, it's sunny and you're like, yes,
[00:47.840 -> 00:54.080] I can play cricket, that's awesome. Or, yeah, I can play sport. It's a game based around being
[00:54.080 -> 00:58.900] able to deal with failure and being able to deal with someone getting the better of you,
[00:58.900 -> 01:01.560] but then bouncing back. You know, you're not going to score 100 every day, you're not going to get
[01:01.560 -> 01:05.760] five for every day. But that's why you can't judge yourself on the outcome all the time.
[01:05.760 -> 01:08.320] You have to judge yourself on how you felt.
[01:08.820 -> 01:13.120] Challenge your limitations, but learn and stick by your strengths, I'd say.
[01:14.640 -> 01:19.400] So welcome to High Performance, former England cricketer, Stuart Broad.
[01:19.440 -> 01:23.600] A man who had 18 years as a cricket professional, 17 years playing for
[01:23.640 -> 01:30.520] England, delivering some of the most memorable moments the sport has ever seen. But what we get into on this conversation
[01:30.520 -> 01:34.200] is how Stuart got there, both physically and mentally. And trust me, you are going to be
[01:34.200 -> 01:39.480] blown away by the depths and the lengths that he went to, to get to the top and to stay
[01:39.480 -> 01:44.400] there. And he is fascinating when he talks about the devastating moment that changed
[01:44.400 -> 01:45.500] everything for him.
[01:45.500 -> 01:50.500] Now this was recorded live in a central London theatre in partnership with Fane.
[01:50.500 -> 01:55.000] And after we spoke to Stuart and we had an interval, we then did an awesome Q&A
[01:55.000 -> 01:58.500] where there was loads of questions put to him about the recent Ashes series,
[01:58.500 -> 02:00.500] his favourite moments playing for the England team.
[02:00.500 -> 02:05.760] He told some, honestly, some unbelievable, hilarious stories about his time in the game
[02:05.760 -> 02:10.400] and if you would like to hear that exclusive Q&A which I think tells you so much about
[02:10.400 -> 02:14.480] the kind of guy Stuart is then just download the high performance app right now go to the
[02:14.480 -> 02:20.280] app store download the app and you can get that exclusive content for free right there
[02:20.280 -> 02:25.200] but let's do this then let's find out how someone who stayed at the top of English cricket
[02:25.200 -> 02:32.440] for so long managed to do it. As we welcome England cricketer Stuart Broad to the High
[02:32.440 -> 02:38.840] Performance Podcast.
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[05:16.720 -> 05:23.400] Nice to see you.
[05:23.400 -> 05:26.560] Great to be here. Awesome crowd, isn't it?
[05:26.560 -> 05:28.000] Isn't it an awesome crowd? Yeah.
[05:29.840 -> 05:32.960] Listen, let's sort of talk about where you're at this evening,
[05:32.960 -> 05:35.920] because you sit here tonight with the applause ringing in your ears,
[05:35.920 -> 05:39.040] a beautiful photo behind you of you wearing your England cap,
[05:39.040 -> 05:43.840] wearing your whites, but you sit here as a former England cricketer.
[05:43.840 -> 05:46.360] Has that sort of sunk in? Have you come to terms with that? I'm glad you avoided the word former England cricketer like has that sort of sunk in if you come to terms with that
[05:46.760 -> 05:49.600] I'm glad you avoided the word retired England cricketer. Yeah
[05:54.320 -> 05:56.320] Yeah, I mean ultimately I think
[05:56.840 -> 06:03.840] Anyone know when you walk away from something that you absolutely love it's it's one of the most difficult decisions going and ultimately
[06:04.040 -> 06:07.240] I was in a place where I was bowling really well.
[06:07.240 -> 06:08.720] I was enjoying my bowling.
[06:08.720 -> 06:11.600] I was loving playing under Stokesy and Baz.
[06:11.600 -> 06:13.920] The team environment was sensational.
[06:13.920 -> 06:16.560] Tying up each day, having a lot of fun.
[06:16.560 -> 06:19.320] And of course, there's always pressure with international cricket,
[06:19.320 -> 06:21.800] but I didn't feel a huge amount of pressure and scrutiny.
[06:21.800 -> 06:25.120] I trusted the hierarchy. But ultimately, I knew I had a goal amount of pressure and scrutiny. I trusted the hierarchy,
[06:25.120 -> 06:28.240] but ultimately I knew I had a goal
[06:28.240 -> 06:29.640] to finish playing for England.
[06:29.640 -> 06:33.360] I knew I wanted my last ball to be at the pinnacle,
[06:33.360 -> 06:35.600] England versus Australia at the oval,
[06:35.600 -> 06:37.440] a gorgeous place to play.
[06:37.440 -> 06:39.440] I think that's what makes me the most proud
[06:39.440 -> 06:40.680] is that I stuck to my principles
[06:40.680 -> 06:43.640] of knowing that I wanted to finish at the top.
[06:43.640 -> 06:46.160] And, you know, I went through a bit of an emotional rollercoaster
[06:46.160 -> 06:48.160] in the final 10 days of my career.
[06:48.160 -> 06:50.320] I started thinking about it a bit at Old Trafford,
[06:50.320 -> 06:53.840] and then the Oval just came so quickly.
[06:53.840 -> 06:56.480] You know, when you've got a big decision hanging over you,
[06:56.480 -> 06:59.520] time seems to go, like, disappear on you a bit, doesn't it?
[06:59.520 -> 07:02.400] So, tried not to think too much about it
[07:02.400 -> 07:04.600] because ultimately we need to win the Oval Test match.
[07:04.600 -> 07:08.000] We've got to focus on performance and deliver a good game.
[07:08.000 -> 07:11.600] But it got to the Friday night, so that would be day two, end of day two,
[07:11.600 -> 07:13.600] and I'm like, I've got to make a decision here.
[07:13.600 -> 07:17.600] I've kept my inner circle tiny.
[07:17.600 -> 07:25.360] Neil Farah, a great friend of mine, Molly, my mum, and Alistair Cook were basically my real sort of confidences in it.
[07:25.360 -> 07:31.040] And I had to... it was getting to that stage of the game is approaching the end,
[07:31.040 -> 07:33.760] you know, I need to know what I'm thinking.
[07:33.760 -> 07:38.160] And I FaceTimed Molly on the Friday night, still umming and ahhing a little bit,
[07:38.160 -> 07:42.960] and she said, trust your gut, trust your gut, you know, we'll support you forever.
[07:42.960 -> 07:46.000] Problem is I had no gut feeling. That was a really difficult thing. I said to Molly that on the FaceTime, I said, trust your gut, trust your gut, we'll support you forever. Problem is I had no gut feeling. That was a really difficult thing.
[07:46.000 -> 07:47.680] I said to Molly that on the FaceTime,
[07:47.680 -> 07:50.880] I said, you know what, I just wish I was playing badly.
[07:50.880 -> 07:54.560] So something was telling me, just walk away from it.
[07:54.560 -> 07:57.440] I've always had that fear of bowling against a 21 year old
[07:57.440 -> 08:00.280] and them going, I thought he was supposed to be good.
[08:00.280 -> 08:03.480] But so I put the FaceTime down, still a bit undecided.
[08:03.480 -> 08:05.560] I was like, right, I'm gonna go knock on Stokes
[08:05.560 -> 08:06.840] he's door
[08:06.840 -> 08:08.840] verbalize the decision and
[08:09.240 -> 08:10.640] See how I feel
[08:10.640 -> 08:13.920] Because ultimately I know him really wise and a great friend of mine
[08:13.920 -> 08:18.600] I knew he wouldn't tell anyone and I sort of knew I could call him 7 a.m
[08:18.600 -> 08:22.640] The next day if it didn't feel right and go Stokes II forget that, you know, I'm canceling that decision
[08:23.080 -> 08:25.960] So walk down the corridor, three doors down,
[08:25.960 -> 08:28.560] knock on the door, and he's like, who is it?
[08:28.560 -> 08:29.600] I'm like, it's Brody.
[08:29.600 -> 08:31.600] He goes, am I seeing my knee?
[08:31.600 -> 08:33.000] I was like, right?
[08:33.000 -> 08:37.320] So he's like plugged in to the wall, and he's game ready.
[08:37.320 -> 08:40.000] He said, can you call me?
[08:40.000 -> 08:42.560] I'm like, ah, I prefer to see you face to face.
[08:42.560 -> 08:44.920] And he said, as soon as I said that, he's like,
[08:44.920 -> 08:46.220] I know something's coming here. So he got up, opened the door, I put my, ah, I prefer to see you face to face. And he said, as soon as I said that, he's like, I know something's coming here.
[08:46.220 -> 08:48.040] So he got up, opened the door,
[08:48.040 -> 08:50.060] I put my hand out and said, that's me.
[08:51.280 -> 08:52.720] And he goes, what do you mean?
[08:52.720 -> 08:55.520] I said, this is gonna be my last game of cricket.
[08:55.520 -> 08:58.160] He was like, you're joking, aren't you?
[08:58.160 -> 09:00.360] I was like, no, it's been a hard decision,
[09:00.360 -> 09:03.160] but I knew I couldn't go with too much doubt
[09:03.160 -> 09:04.600] because I didn't want it to be a negotiation.
[09:04.600 -> 09:05.840] I needed to like like, say it.
[09:05.840 -> 09:07.700] And he gave me a massive hug.
[09:07.700 -> 09:09.740] I said, thank you so much for being, like, a great friend,
[09:09.740 -> 09:13.040] but also giving me the most enjoyable 15 months.
[09:13.040 -> 09:14.540] I said, just keep it to yourself tonight
[09:14.540 -> 09:16.840] because I need to see how I feel in the morning type thing.
[09:16.840 -> 09:18.520] And then woke up at 7 a.m. the next morning
[09:18.520 -> 09:25.000] and felt lighter, fresher, happy, you know, no sad feelings,
[09:25.840 -> 09:27.400] and knew it was the right decision.
[09:27.400 -> 09:29.880] And that's maybe when my gut feeling told me
[09:29.880 -> 09:30.760] that it was the right call.
[09:30.760 -> 09:35.760] So actually verbalizing it to Stokesy helped me accept it
[09:36.000 -> 09:38.880] and then went on the most incredible sort of journey
[09:38.880 -> 09:41.240] for a couple of days that I've had in my career really.
[09:41.240 -> 09:43.880] And we will talk about those throughout the evening.
[09:43.880 -> 09:47.560] Why does the word retirement sit so uneasily with you?
[09:48.480 -> 09:49.640] 37 years old.
[09:49.640 -> 09:50.480] Yeah.
[09:50.480 -> 09:53.080] That's literally everyone's dream.
[09:53.080 -> 09:54.280] It feels so like,
[09:56.200 -> 09:59.000] it feels so final that word doesn't it, retirement.
[09:59.000 -> 10:02.920] You know, I just see it very much as a changing of career,
[10:02.920 -> 10:04.600] a changing of paths.
[10:04.600 -> 10:06.920] Ultimately sport is a funny beast
[10:06.920 -> 10:10.200] in the fact that most sports are quite age dependent.
[10:10.200 -> 10:12.080] You know that you come to a time
[10:12.080 -> 10:14.200] when either you can choose to go,
[10:14.200 -> 10:16.200] which very rarely do you get to go on your own terms,
[10:16.200 -> 10:18.520] or an injury comes or loss of form comes
[10:18.520 -> 10:20.280] and age wipes you out.
[10:20.280 -> 10:23.960] So yeah, I try and avoid the word retirement
[10:23.960 -> 10:24.960] at all costs really,
[10:24.960 -> 10:27.680] and just see it as a new chapter in life, a change of direction. Felly, rwy'n ceisio awtomatio'r ywyr, yw'r cymorth ar gyfer yr ymdrechion, ac efallai ei weld fel ddiweddarwyr newydd mewn bywyd,
[10:27.680 -> 10:29.520] newid o ddiwydiant,
[10:29.520 -> 10:31.320] ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n helpu i mi
[10:31.320 -> 10:34.000] newid fy sgwrs i fod yn un pwysig.
[10:34.000 -> 10:35.160] Ac rwy'n gwybod bod yn ddiweddarau'n wirioneddol,
[10:35.160 -> 10:37.160] ond sut mae wedi bod
[10:37.160 -> 10:38.920] ers y ball ffinal anhygoel honno?
[10:38.920 -> 10:40.000] Oherwydd dydyn ni ddim yn siarad
[10:40.000 -> 10:42.760] gyda phobl chwaraewyr ymdrechion newydd
[10:42.760 -> 10:44.560] yn aml iawn am yr hyn sydd,
[10:44.560 -> 10:46.040] pan ddangos y syniad o gafnod yn ddiffyg yn ystod y noth. Dw i wedi rhoi fy mhob bywyd i gweithio gyda phroffesiynolion o'r blaen, to newly retired sports people very often about actually what it is like when the sense
[10:46.040 -> 10:47.680] of purpose sort of disappears overnight.
[10:47.680 -> 10:52.640] I've spent my life working with former professionals, and I still see when they're asked for their
[10:52.640 -> 10:56.400] ID when we turn up to a football match or whatever, I see it sort of like, it rankles
[10:56.400 -> 10:57.400] with them a little bit.
[10:57.400 -> 11:06.840] Actually, what you say about ID, I moved away from the playing side on the Monday the Monday night
[11:06.840 -> 11:08.840] so the Tuesday sort of
[11:09.560 -> 11:14.640] Packed up the hotel went home nice relaxed and I was actually had booked these back in in February
[11:14.640 -> 11:17.840] I was working at Lords for sky on the Wednesday on a hundred game
[11:18.060 -> 11:20.680] So I had my players pass which gets you into every ground
[11:21.240 -> 11:23.200] Around the country at any time, you know
[11:23.200 -> 11:25.000] If you need to go and train or use the gym or facilities,
[11:25.000 -> 11:27.000] get to the gate, laws on my players' pass, zap,
[11:27.000 -> 11:29.000] just this red light comes up.
[11:29.000 -> 11:31.000] Oh, wow.
[11:31.000 -> 11:34.000] And I'm like...
[11:34.000 -> 11:35.000] Like, try it again, red light.
[11:35.000 -> 11:37.000] I was like, sorry, is the players' pass?
[11:37.000 -> 11:38.000] Should get me in?
[11:38.000 -> 11:39.000] He goes, oh, let me check.
[11:39.000 -> 11:41.000] No, no, I don't think you can get in.
[11:41.000 -> 11:44.000] I said, well, can I? I'm working today, can I get in?
[11:44.000 -> 11:47.000] No, you haven't got the right pass. So I'm there, like, outside with fans gathering around,
[11:47.000 -> 11:49.000] like, trying to get a call from someone from Sky saying,
[11:49.000 -> 11:51.000] I need a new pass, this pass won't get me in,
[11:51.000 -> 11:54.000] I'm not a player anymore, they've cancelled it on me already,
[11:54.000 -> 11:57.000] type thing, so that was quite a unique experience.
[11:57.000 -> 12:01.000] But, yeah, I think I'm still riding a bit of a high
[12:01.000 -> 12:04.000] from the end of July, it was the most incredible series,
[12:04.000 -> 12:05.000] like, exhilarating, had everything, I think I'm still riding a bit of a high from the end of July.
[12:05.000 -> 12:06.300] It was the most incredible series,
[12:06.300 -> 12:09.120] like exhilarating, had everything.
[12:09.120 -> 12:10.540] It had so much drama.
[12:10.540 -> 12:13.460] One of the most enjoyable series I've played in.
[12:13.460 -> 12:16.340] And I don't think it's gonna necessarily hit me
[12:16.340 -> 12:19.700] that I'm a former cricketer
[12:19.700 -> 12:22.180] until I see Jimmy Anderson walk on the field
[12:22.180 -> 12:23.420] with his whites and a cap,
[12:23.420 -> 12:25.920] or Stokesy take the field and I'm not there and
[12:26.440 -> 12:27.840] I think
[12:27.840 -> 12:28.440] You know
[12:28.440 -> 12:34.640] I've been quite sensible over a period of time to chat to former pros and Luxor Morgan cookie
[12:34.640 -> 12:40.560] you know friends that have moved away from the game and every single one of them's had a moment at some stage of oh
[12:41.520 -> 12:44.680] My goodness. I that's not me anymore. I'm not there anymore
[12:44.680 -> 12:46.520] and I think mine's either going to come
[12:46.520 -> 12:48.480] when they go to India in January,
[12:48.480 -> 12:50.800] or when they walk out of Trent Bridge
[12:50.800 -> 12:52.560] at the start of next season, that pre-season,
[12:52.560 -> 12:54.240] you know, the freshly mown grass,
[12:54.240 -> 12:56.720] that like the sun, the weather's started to get better.
[12:56.720 -> 12:57.840] It's cricket season.
[12:57.840 -> 12:59.760] It might come then, but I'm prepared for that.
[12:59.760 -> 13:01.400] I feel like I'm prepared for that.
[13:01.400 -> 13:04.080] It's not going to hit me and be a big shock.
[13:04.080 -> 13:06.600] So I'll let you know when it comes.
[13:06.600 -> 13:09.560] I want to talk in this first half of the show
[13:09.560 -> 13:12.560] about one of the key things really that stems from the book,
[13:12.560 -> 13:15.800] which is your mindset and the way that you worked so hard
[13:15.800 -> 13:18.720] behind the scenes, the things that we've never seen
[13:18.720 -> 13:20.000] that you had to do to get yourself
[13:20.000 -> 13:21.160] to where you wanted to be.
[13:21.160 -> 13:23.640] So I'd like to start right at the very beginning.
[13:23.640 -> 13:25.200] You know, you write writing the book brilliantly
[13:25.200 -> 13:26.440] about your mom saying to you,
[13:26.440 -> 13:28.560] look, don't go to uni,
[13:28.560 -> 13:31.600] just give it a couple of years as a professional cricketer.
[13:31.600 -> 13:33.880] And if it doesn't work out, you can go to uni then,
[13:33.880 -> 13:34.840] but why not give it a go?
[13:34.840 -> 13:36.880] Why not explore and see?
[13:36.880 -> 13:37.920] I'd love to know what it was like
[13:37.920 -> 13:39.520] the first time that you turned up
[13:39.520 -> 13:42.440] and actually suddenly this was no longer simply a game.
[13:42.440 -> 13:44.200] This was now gonna be your career.
[13:45.320 -> 13:48.360] Yeah, so I was very lucky throughout my childhood.
[13:48.360 -> 13:50.800] My dad had played for England 25 tests.
[13:50.800 -> 13:54.200] And sometimes I think when you're the child
[13:54.200 -> 13:55.920] of someone that's achieved something,
[13:55.920 -> 13:57.720] there's an added pressure or scrutiny,
[13:57.720 -> 14:00.760] or maybe coaches at clubs think,
[14:00.760 -> 14:02.080] oh, you should be better than you are.
[14:02.080 -> 14:03.360] Your dad played for England type thing.
[14:03.360 -> 14:05.800] But my parents sort of protected me from that quite a lot.
[14:05.800 -> 14:08.500] And mum was incredible for me
[14:08.500 -> 14:11.200] because sport was about fun, about enjoyment.
[14:11.200 -> 14:13.500] So I'd get back in the car after a game of football,
[14:13.500 -> 14:15.200] rugby, cricket, whatever.
[14:15.200 -> 14:17.100] First question, without fail, have you had fun?
[14:17.100 -> 14:18.400] Have you enjoyed it?
[14:18.400 -> 14:22.200] Her belief was you could turn up on a Saturday,
[14:22.200 -> 14:24.700] get no runs, no wickets, drop a few catches,
[14:24.700 -> 14:25.880] but you can still enjoy your time
[14:25.880 -> 14:26.720] with your friends.
[14:26.720 -> 14:28.760] You know, if you're basing everything at that age
[14:28.760 -> 14:30.940] on performing and results,
[14:30.940 -> 14:33.160] then it just creates so much pressure on you.
[14:33.160 -> 14:35.520] And then it becomes like a job when you're trying
[14:35.520 -> 14:37.560] to be learning and experiencing the most.
[14:37.560 -> 14:40.920] And I tried to hold that mindset
[14:40.920 -> 14:43.280] as much as I possibly could throughout my whole career
[14:43.280 -> 14:44.520] about fun and enjoyment,
[14:44.520 -> 14:47.000] and definitely finished it the last 15 months
[14:47.000 -> 14:49.000] with that being, you know, the pinnacle.
[14:49.000 -> 14:51.000] My memories of cricket will be brilliant
[14:51.000 -> 14:53.000] because of my feelings at the end,
[14:53.000 -> 14:55.000] but she definitely...
[14:55.000 -> 14:58.000] It definitely changes when you become a pro.
[14:58.000 -> 14:59.000] It definitely does.
[14:59.000 -> 15:01.000] You know, if you can hold on as long
[15:01.000 -> 15:03.000] to that feeling that you used to get as a kid
[15:03.000 -> 15:05.960] when you opened the curtains on a Saturday morning and you're praying for it not to be raining, you used to get as a kid when you open the curtains on a Saturday morning
[15:05.960 -> 15:07.760] and you're praying for it not to be raining,
[15:07.760 -> 15:08.840] you know, it's sunny and you're like,
[15:08.840 -> 15:10.520] yes, I can play cricket, that's awesome.
[15:10.520 -> 15:12.360] Or yeah, I can play sport.
[15:12.360 -> 15:15.400] And sometimes with media pressure and expectancy
[15:15.400 -> 15:17.440] and why you're not in the team,
[15:17.440 -> 15:18.320] why you're struggling a bit,
[15:18.320 -> 15:20.220] that you can lose that slightly.
[15:21.560 -> 15:22.960] Why is that?
[15:22.960 -> 15:23.800] I'm not sure.
[15:23.800 -> 15:26.000] I mean, I've tried to, I've never seen it as a job.
[15:26.000 -> 15:27.120] It's always been a hobby for me.
[15:27.120 -> 15:27.960] I love cricket.
[15:27.960 -> 15:30.360] I hope to stay in cricket for the rest of my life.
[15:30.360 -> 15:33.160] You know, my family, it's in my family's blood, really.
[15:33.160 -> 15:34.840] It's a great love of mine,
[15:34.840 -> 15:38.040] but there's something about crossing that line as a pro
[15:38.040 -> 15:40.520] that maybe you just take it too seriously sometimes.
[15:40.520 -> 15:42.320] Ultimately, it's a game of sport
[15:42.320 -> 15:43.640] that you're playing with your friends.
[15:43.640 -> 15:49.280] And I think that's what Baz and Stokesy have done so incredibly well is they've bought it back at the top level
[15:49.760 -> 15:53.340] By the way, you know, you know with millions of people around the globe watching
[15:53.340 -> 15:58.700] They've bought it back to feeling like you're playing club cricket on a Saturday and almost feel like she'd go and pay a tenner to play
[15:58.720 -> 16:04.960] Yeah, I mean, it's that sort of feeling they've they've bought it back to so what was your emotion the first the first time that you?
[16:02.600 -> 16:07.240] sort of feeling they've brought it back to. So what was your emotion the first time that you went to work as a pro cricketer?
[16:07.240 -> 16:09.880] Were you excited? Was there a sense of imposter syndrome?
[16:09.880 -> 16:13.160] What are your memories of that time?
[16:13.160 -> 16:17.840] Certainly, I had a few different memories that I can remember.
[16:17.840 -> 16:19.120] One was a really positive one.
[16:19.120 -> 16:21.400] So I played in the biggest game of my career at the time,
[16:21.400 -> 16:27.040] it was a T20 finals day at Trent Bridge. And Essex had been traveling really well.
[16:27.040 -> 16:29.000] They had a few stars in their team.
[16:29.000 -> 16:30.600] We were like the underdogs.
[16:30.600 -> 16:32.880] And I fronted up in that game.
[16:32.880 -> 16:35.400] I was hugely competitive.
[16:35.400 -> 16:37.520] I didn't back down to any of their senior players.
[16:37.520 -> 16:42.520] Ronnie Irani had had an amazing series for them and attacked me a little bit.
[16:42.520 -> 16:43.880] What age are you here?
[16:43.880 -> 16:45.400] 19, I think.
[16:45.400 -> 16:47.800] But he said, right, this is the young whippersnapper.
[16:47.800 -> 16:49.800] I'm going to take him on verbally and physically
[16:49.800 -> 16:51.200] and try and overpower him.
[16:51.200 -> 16:52.800] And I stood up to that really well.
[16:52.800 -> 16:54.000] What was he saying?
[16:54.000 -> 16:55.000] Hmm.
[16:55.000 -> 16:57.000] LAUGHTER
[16:58.800 -> 17:02.000] He said, the rumours are true.
[17:02.000 -> 17:05.000] You're as big a swear word
[17:06.340 -> 17:09.380] as your dad was. And I sort of said along the lines of,
[17:09.380 -> 17:13.080] well, you're old enough to have played against both of us,
[17:13.080 -> 17:16.020] type route, and got him out, he got a nine ball nought.
[17:16.020 -> 17:18.560] And you can see when I get him out,
[17:18.560 -> 17:20.420] I'm obviously like buzzing, and my whole team,
[17:20.420 -> 17:22.680] because they've heard the verbals going on, erupt.
[17:22.680 -> 17:24.880] But then, after that sort of showing,
[17:24.880 -> 17:25.680] I got picked for England.
[17:25.680 -> 17:27.840] And this is, I wouldn't say it's imposture syndrome.
[17:27.840 -> 17:29.540] I was buzzing to be there.
[17:29.540 -> 17:31.020] I was really excited about the opportunity,
[17:31.020 -> 17:32.980] but it's overpowering.
[17:32.980 -> 17:36.060] You know, so 2006, I'm walking into a team room
[17:36.060 -> 17:39.420] of those O5 heroes, you know, Strauss, Triskothic,
[17:39.420 -> 17:41.460] Goff was in there, Harmison.
[17:41.460 -> 17:44.160] And, you know, I've got no experience.
[17:44.160 -> 17:46.060] But I'm suddenly in a team meeting with guys
[17:46.060 -> 17:49.400] that I've idolized on TV, and I'm there.
[17:50.860 -> 17:53.160] I rock up and they've all got Jaguars and Mercs,
[17:53.160 -> 17:54.560] and I've got a Vauxhall Corsa, you know,
[17:54.560 -> 17:58.720] a bit like parking the car, parking the corner type thing.
[18:01.200 -> 18:02.040] I speak about this in the book,
[18:02.040 -> 18:03.480] actually, how good Goffy was for me,
[18:03.480 -> 18:05.000] and that's the reason I wore the number eight shirt
[18:05.000 -> 18:05.840] throughout my career.
[18:05.840 -> 18:07.600] He took me under his wing.
[18:07.600 -> 18:11.560] He amazingly let me bowl with the wind on my England debut,
[18:11.560 -> 18:13.640] which sounds a little thing,
[18:13.640 -> 18:15.600] but it was his little way of saying,
[18:15.600 -> 18:17.800] you're the youngster, have every advantage going for you.
[18:17.800 -> 18:19.200] Cause I know how hard this is.
[18:19.200 -> 18:22.080] And that was a really special thing for him to do.
[18:22.080 -> 18:24.460] And I think that's why I got that bond with him.
[18:24.460 -> 18:26.960] Even now, if I see him, you know, we have a hug
[18:26.960 -> 18:29.880] and we just know that we've got that, like, number eight club.
[18:29.880 -> 18:32.160] We've got that mutual respect
[18:32.160 -> 18:34.360] because he treated me so well as a kid.
[18:34.360 -> 18:36.600] You spoke nicely in the book as well about Otis Gibson.
[18:36.600 -> 18:37.440] Yeah, I love him.
[18:37.440 -> 18:39.320] What was it that you saw then in him early on
[18:39.320 -> 18:41.520] and you thought, right, that is the standard
[18:41.520 -> 18:43.040] that I need to be operating at?
[18:43.040 -> 18:47.140] Like, true professional, you know, he'd go to the swimming pool every single morning
[18:47.140 -> 18:49.000] I think he was 37 38 at the time
[18:49.000 -> 18:56.900] But he committed so much work into his game that I think that was quite influential for me because I saw a 37 year old
[18:56.900 -> 19:02.400] Doing that when I'm 18. I said well if he's doing it at that age, I should be doing it now. So he taught me
[19:03.300 -> 19:06.840] Everything about working on your game looking to improve all the time,
[19:06.840 -> 19:07.840] picking things in your game.
[19:07.840 -> 19:10.080] So he'd actually left the game and become a coach
[19:10.080 -> 19:13.720] and come back out of finishing playing to play again
[19:13.720 -> 19:15.560] because he felt he learned so much being a coach
[19:15.560 -> 19:17.520] that he wanted to put it into practice again.
[19:17.520 -> 19:21.200] And yeah, he just had nuggets of information
[19:21.200 -> 19:22.280] just spurring me on all the time,
[19:22.280 -> 19:26.280] but without filling me with all sorts of stuff all the time.
[19:26.280 -> 19:29.760] So yeah, he went on to coach the West Indies, South Africa.
[19:29.760 -> 19:31.200] You remember an early bit of advice from him
[19:31.200 -> 19:33.240] where you thought that's golden.
[19:33.240 -> 19:36.000] It wasn't so much the verbal advice all the time.
[19:36.000 -> 19:37.080] I could just watch him.
[19:37.080 -> 19:38.280] I could just watch it.
[19:38.280 -> 19:39.840] You know, he got in the battle on the field.
[19:39.840 -> 19:41.960] He'd always do the hard yards on the field,
[19:41.960 -> 19:43.120] which I respected,
[19:44.080 -> 19:46.080] but look after himself incredibly off it.
[19:46.080 -> 19:48.000] You know, I'm lucky, Jimmy and I are the same.
[19:48.000 -> 19:50.420] We've played in an era where we've got the nutrition,
[19:50.420 -> 19:53.440] we've got the science, we've got the facilities.
[19:53.440 -> 19:55.520] He almost did it before that era came,
[19:55.520 -> 19:58.200] but I could watch him and just think,
[19:58.200 -> 20:01.360] I could get to 37, you know, if I do what he does.
[20:01.360 -> 20:02.800] What I like is that you write in the book
[20:02.800 -> 20:04.420] about your upbringing and you were talented
[20:04.420 -> 20:06.640] and your parents gave you this opportunity
[20:06.640 -> 20:08.920] and then you get the chance and you know,
[20:08.920 -> 20:11.320] you went up against Ronny Arani and that went really well
[20:11.320 -> 20:12.920] and suddenly you're playing for England.
[20:12.920 -> 20:13.960] Got the blonde highlights.
[20:13.960 -> 20:15.280] Got the blonde highlights
[20:15.280 -> 20:17.720] and probably got rid of the Corsa.
[20:17.720 -> 20:21.120] And then Durban happens.
[20:21.120 -> 20:24.600] And what was probably the darkest day in your career
[20:24.600 -> 20:25.000] at that point,
[20:25.000 -> 20:30.000] I have no doubt was really important in shaping you for the future.
[20:30.000 -> 20:31.000] Massively, yeah.
[20:31.000 -> 20:36.000] And, you know, I haven't really talked about the 6-6s in Durban at all
[20:36.000 -> 20:39.000] because I had this mentality that after 24 hours,
[20:39.000 -> 20:41.000] I'm going to park the bus, leave it behind.
[20:41.000 -> 20:46.320] I sort of knew where I'd gone wrong and I didn't want to have those
[20:46.320 -> 20:53.800] feelings again in my playing career. It was too hurtful, too damaging. But I knew what
[20:53.800 -> 21:02.000] I'd done wrong in that instance. I'd got maybe a touch comfortable, I was 21 maybe, and for
[21:02.000 -> 21:06.880] three months I was talented. I'd played for England a bit. I'd had the odd good performance.
[21:06.880 -> 21:09.760] I was inconsistent, but I thought,
[21:09.760 -> 21:10.720] yeah, I've got this game.
[21:10.720 -> 21:11.760] I know what I'm doing.
[21:11.760 -> 21:14.160] And I had no mental preparation.
[21:14.160 -> 21:17.800] I had no real physical preparation that I stuck to
[21:17.800 -> 21:21.160] and played this T20 World Cup game in Durban.
[21:21.160 -> 21:23.400] South Africa played first and we had a,
[21:23.400 -> 21:30.100] maybe a 10, 15 minute turnaround for TV then the next games on so it's all a bit rushed so you know
[21:30.100 -> 21:33.760] you're getting out there you take a few catches right get a feel for it I only
[21:33.760 -> 21:38.220] had time to mark one end of the pitch where I was where my run-up would be
[21:38.220 -> 21:43.640] because I knew I was going to start that end so looking back on it I the captain
[21:43.640 -> 21:46.680] think it was Collie said oh you to bowl this end 19th over.
[21:46.680 -> 21:48.840] I was like, all right, yeah.
[21:48.840 -> 21:49.680] So I'm immediately thinking,
[21:49.680 -> 21:51.160] okay, I've not marked run up out there.
[21:51.160 -> 21:53.000] That's not great.
[21:53.000 -> 21:55.720] So got the ball and just straight,
[21:55.720 -> 21:58.560] like got my run up sorted, scratched the mark.
[21:58.560 -> 22:00.840] So immediately I've not thought once
[22:00.840 -> 22:02.040] about where I'm going to bowl,
[22:02.040 -> 22:03.880] not thought once about my field.
[22:03.880 -> 22:10.180] I'd not set about who I'm bowling at. you know, it was Doni at one end UV at the other both set flat pitch
[22:10.700 -> 22:12.700] Had no real plan and I tried to bowl
[22:13.100 -> 22:18.580] Which I you know, I tried for six of the same delivery and I'm really after three I should have gone that's not working. Yeah
[22:20.160 -> 22:25.060] There's no one there to say to you you young, you're getting yourself into a hole here,
[22:25.060 -> 22:26.660] just stop and take a breath?
[22:28.280 -> 22:30.160] I think Colly sort of came up a little bit and said,
[22:30.160 -> 22:31.920] do you think we should change the field or something?
[22:31.920 -> 22:34.360] But by then everything was happening so quickly
[22:34.360 -> 22:35.920] and sparring out of control.
[22:35.920 -> 22:40.040] And why I think it was quite obviously a devastating thing
[22:40.040 -> 22:41.600] to have happened to me at such a young age,
[22:41.600 -> 22:47.000] but it gave me a bit of a kick to say,
[22:47.000 -> 22:48.700] right, you need to get some processes in place
[22:48.700 -> 22:50.600] to look after yourself under pressure.
[22:50.600 -> 22:51.660] It all became a scramble.
[22:51.660 -> 22:53.660] You know, if you've had moments in your career
[22:53.660 -> 22:55.760] where you can't really remember that last 10 minutes,
[22:55.760 -> 22:57.500] you're like, ooh, what happened there?
[22:57.500 -> 23:01.060] So I needed to put some things in place that,
[23:01.060 -> 23:03.140] I never bowled six balls the same ever again.
[23:03.140 -> 23:04.200] That was one learning for us.
[23:04.200 -> 23:06.400] That was probably the only physical thing.
[23:06.400 -> 23:10.560] But the mindset thing is I created a routine around that
[23:10.560 -> 23:12.520] that I stuck with all the way up
[23:12.520 -> 23:14.360] until my last game in July.
[23:14.360 -> 23:17.960] And yes, it evolved and grew over particularly
[23:17.960 -> 23:20.160] the first three or four years of me learning about it.
[23:20.160 -> 23:23.560] But I think I mentioned to you before,
[23:23.560 -> 23:27.400] my dad said the game's 80% mental, 20% technical
[23:27.400 -> 23:28.600] when I was 15 years old.
[23:28.600 -> 23:29.600] And I was like, what's he on about?
[23:29.600 -> 23:30.800] Absolute nonsense.
[23:31.800 -> 23:33.000] I actually think it's more than that.
[23:33.000 -> 23:36.400] It's probably 90-10 because the mental routines
[23:36.400 -> 23:38.200] of what I put in place that day
[23:39.000 -> 23:42.000] held me pretty strong for the next sort of 16, 17 years.
[23:42.000 -> 23:46.640] And it almost took that moment of chaos
[23:46.640 -> 23:48.160] to wake me up a bit,
[23:48.160 -> 23:50.520] to realize talent doesn't really get you that far.
[23:50.520 -> 23:52.840] It actually, you need to work very hard
[23:52.840 -> 23:56.200] on the different side of the game and the sport
[23:56.200 -> 23:59.320] that actually will drag you further.
[23:59.320 -> 24:02.000] And I was lucky in the fact that that happened to me at 21.
[24:02.000 -> 24:05.480] It takes some players in all sports to the 25, 26
[24:05.480 -> 24:08.560] to really get to grips of starting that process.
[24:08.560 -> 24:10.320] And then by the time they're 29, they get it.
[24:10.320 -> 24:12.080] So they have three or four years of success.
[24:12.080 -> 24:15.480] Whereas I felt like I got it by the time I was 26.
[24:15.480 -> 24:19.280] So I could have 11 years of pretty consistent success.
[24:19.280 -> 24:20.840] What changed after that moment?
[24:20.840 -> 24:22.560] So my mum's always had a 24 hour rule.
[24:22.560 -> 24:24.760] Like you're allowed to be a bit disappointed
[24:24.760 -> 24:26.800] or focus on things that maybe didn't go so well
[24:26.800 -> 24:28.760] for 24 hours, lose a game, 24 hours,
[24:28.760 -> 24:31.160] and then that 24 hours hits, look forward,
[24:31.160 -> 24:33.000] right, where are we moving to?
[24:33.000 -> 24:35.880] And I had the 24 hours in a hotel room
[24:35.880 -> 24:39.440] of a bit of devastation, and then I'd start
[24:39.440 -> 24:40.760] looking at the positives while we were already
[24:40.760 -> 24:42.680] out of the World Cup, didn't knock us out
[24:42.680 -> 24:44.200] of the World Cup, we didn't lose a trophy
[24:44.200 -> 24:48.280] because of my poor decision-making making, etc. I eventually came up
[24:48.280 -> 24:53.380] with this thing called warrior mode, which would control everything about bowling a spell.
[24:53.380 -> 24:59.480] So the routine of, I'd always run over the boundary's edge, because that's me then entering
[24:59.480 -> 25:06.400] my battle arena, so to speak. And then I'd stick to a routine before bowling my first ball.
[25:06.400 -> 25:09.520] It's funny, I'm talking here and it's all mental work.
[25:09.520 -> 25:13.320] I didn't, not one bit of me went physically I need to do loads of different things.
[25:13.320 -> 25:19.760] It was very much I need to build a mental framework about being able to deliver more consistently
[25:19.760 -> 25:24.320] and it took a bit of time to evolve, but I'd say the last 10 years of my career,
[25:24.320 -> 25:26.400] I pretty much got its bottom.
[25:26.400 -> 25:28.000] Look, that's quite a big thing,
[25:28.000 -> 25:30.720] to create an almost a different persona
[25:30.720 -> 25:32.040] for the minute you cross the white line,
[25:32.040 -> 25:33.480] this idea of warrior mode.
[25:33.480 -> 25:35.880] I mean, that's almost too much work
[25:35.880 -> 25:36.720] for you to do on your own.
[25:36.720 -> 25:38.920] So did you bring someone into the fold at that point,
[25:38.920 -> 25:42.000] or did you have conversations with psychologists
[25:42.000 -> 25:43.920] or anything that you maybe hadn't had until that point?
[25:43.920 -> 25:47.560] Yeah, I must admit, I mean, I made my debut in 06,
[25:50.200 -> 25:52.980] sports psychologists were maybe around,
[25:52.980 -> 25:54.960] but they weren't overly used.
[25:54.960 -> 25:57.780] It's become very much the culture now
[25:57.780 -> 26:00.300] that every player would build a routine
[26:00.300 -> 26:03.160] around training and playing with the team
[26:03.160 -> 26:07.960] sports psychologists, but I probably only really grew into that 2008, 2009
[26:07.960 -> 26:10.600] of really working with some individual,
[26:10.600 -> 26:12.560] Mark Borden, who was with the team.
[26:12.560 -> 26:14.760] And we'd check in all the time,
[26:14.760 -> 26:17.880] do sort of little check boards
[26:17.880 -> 26:20.840] of what I'd be looking to achieve in that day,
[26:20.840 -> 26:22.880] and he'd email me in the evening and say,
[26:22.880 -> 26:24.560] did you do this, did you do this, did you do this?
[26:24.560 -> 26:26.680] What sort of things?
[26:26.680 -> 26:28.680] Did you get in a contest?
[26:28.680 -> 26:29.940] It was never about the results, never like,
[26:29.940 -> 26:32.140] did you take wickets or did you get in a contest?
[26:32.140 -> 26:34.440] Did you create chances for your team?
[26:34.440 -> 26:37.840] Did you lead the players in a competitive way?
[26:37.840 -> 26:40.540] Did you give positivity to someone
[26:40.540 -> 26:41.740] within the changing room?
[26:41.740 -> 26:43.580] Just little things that take you away.
[26:43.580 -> 26:45.800] I think with all psychology things,
[26:45.800 -> 26:47.300] it probably evolves over time
[26:47.300 -> 26:50.700] of things you want to tweak and want to stop,
[26:50.700 -> 26:53.600] but one of the most important things actually was,
[26:53.600 -> 26:54.440] remember as a bowler,
[26:54.440 -> 26:56.600] the game can't start until you're ready.
[26:56.600 -> 27:00.440] So actually physically, the game doesn't move until I go,
[27:00.440 -> 27:03.140] okay, I'm ready to deliver the first ball.
[27:03.140 -> 27:06.520] And I would start that process the day before
[27:06.780 -> 27:12.180] So like I said you when I got hit for six sixes. I started that process. I didn't have a run-up marked
[27:12.180 -> 27:16.120] I've never practiced a ball from that end. There was no process. There's no process
[27:16.120 -> 27:21.080] I was I was I was like scratching my mark, you know, but I'm not one moment
[27:21.080 -> 27:24.920] Did I think what am I gonna bowl first ball here? What's my field? I've just gone, right?
[27:24.880 -> 27:27.860] Not one moment. Did I think what am I gonna bowl first ball here? What's my field? I've just gone, right? Well, I go out with a plan for your first ball was going to be well
[27:27.860 -> 27:32.860] I it was unique in that World Cup because South Africa had played a game just before us and then there was a 10-minute
[27:32.860 -> 27:37.980] Turnaround and when we played the game, so you didn't have time to do a full warm-up and a check but
[27:39.060 -> 27:43.640] You know for the final 10 years of my career the day before a game I'd go to the end. I was going to start
[27:44.320 -> 27:46.360] and I'd bowl.
[27:46.360 -> 27:49.360] I'd imagine the crowd cheering or booing like Australia.
[27:49.360 -> 27:51.240] I'd imagine, like, if I'm at Lords,
[27:51.240 -> 27:53.480] the champagne corks popping, all that sort of thing.
[27:53.480 -> 27:55.000] I can really feel it.
[27:55.000 -> 27:57.520] And then I'd bowl 24 balls in my mind,
[27:57.520 -> 27:59.080] all just going through to the wicketkeeper.
[27:59.080 -> 28:01.520] So then when I arrived on the day of the game,
[28:01.520 -> 28:03.000] I felt like I'd already done that.
[28:03.000 -> 28:09.380] And for five years, before I went to sleep the night before I'd bowl those balls in my mind before I
[28:09.380 -> 28:13.060] slept but then I found I didn't need to do that because I could already feel the
[28:13.060 -> 28:17.020] emotion of what I'd already done so I was almost visualizing the bowling
[28:17.020 -> 28:19.980] before I'd done it so I felt comfortable and I did actually bowl.
[28:19.980 -> 28:24.020] And that was warrior mode you also write in the book about assassin mode which also
[28:24.020 -> 28:26.320] sounds very dangerous.
[28:26.320 -> 28:29.120] And I think a few opposition players might have seen that over the years.
[28:29.120 -> 28:30.320] Explain Assassin Mode.
[28:30.320 -> 28:33.120] That's when Warrior Mode got a bit heated and I had to bring it down.
[28:33.120 -> 28:35.360] You know, that's when I had to really sort of...
[28:35.360 -> 28:39.120] If my emotions got a bit sky-high or got a bit competitive...
[28:39.120 -> 28:40.160] And don't, like...
[28:40.160 -> 28:42.880] I think you remember with the Alex Carey incident when I was batting.
[28:42.880 -> 28:47.440] Don't control this all the time. Bear mind, it's not 100% success rate.
[28:47.440 -> 28:52.760] But Assassin mode was just little things to bring my emotions down.
[28:52.760 -> 28:56.120] So Warrior mode, okay, Ash is day one, ramp it up.
[28:56.120 -> 28:59.000] Get the crowd going, bang, out we go.
[28:59.000 -> 29:00.960] Assassin mode, things aren't going so well,
[29:00.960 -> 29:04.840] maybe you got a bit heated out there, you've leaked a few runs.
[29:04.840 -> 29:09.280] How do you bring your emotions down? And that, connected with that is disconnecting a bit from
[29:09.280 -> 29:14.880] the game, picking, you know, going to talk to a teammate rather than getting too involved with an
[29:14.880 -> 29:21.120] opposition. It's just putting a structure in place really that when it's not going so well on the
[29:21.120 -> 29:29.320] field, instead of it not going so well for half an hour and you lose the game, it doesn't go so well for 10 minutes, you can drag yourself back out of
[29:29.320 -> 29:33.320] there and go, right, let's get back on track, what are we focusing on?
[29:33.320 -> 29:37.360] And you write often in the book about, and you only sort of give it fleeting mentions,
[29:37.360 -> 29:42.200] my note making or my note taking, or I wrote my notes and that helped me. I'd love to delve
[29:42.200 -> 29:47.000] a bit deeper into this if possible. Do you remember when you first started
[29:47.000 -> 29:49.600] diligently writing notes to yourself in your career?
[29:49.600 -> 29:52.720] I started to dabble at 26-ish.
[29:52.720 -> 29:54.680] How did it begin?
[29:54.680 -> 29:57.040] I was working with the sports psychologist of the team,
[29:57.040 -> 30:00.200] Mark Borden, and we started to...
[30:00.200 -> 30:02.080] Actually, one of them, this is a bit silly,
[30:02.080 -> 30:04.280] but Andy Flower was getting annoyed
[30:04.280 -> 30:06.560] that I wouldn't turn around to the umpire when appealing,
[30:06.560 -> 30:09.080] which has turned into a celeb appeal.
[30:09.080 -> 30:11.720] So Andy had gone to the sports psychologist
[30:11.720 -> 30:13.440] and said, I need you to work with Brodie
[30:13.440 -> 30:15.000] and get him turning around to the umpire
[30:15.000 -> 30:17.680] when he appeals.
[30:17.680 -> 30:19.360] So the sports psychologist comes to me and goes,
[30:19.360 -> 30:20.400] I've got a challenge for you.
[30:20.400 -> 30:22.480] So I'm like, oh yeah, should I work on a new ball?
[30:22.480 -> 30:24.200] No, no, you've got to turn around to the umpire.
[30:24.200 -> 30:26.000] So I'm like, oh, fair enough. work on a new ball? No, no, you've got to turn around to the umpire. So I'm like, oh, fair enough.
[30:26.000 -> 30:29.000] So he put in plans that I'd train it,
[30:29.000 -> 30:31.000] actually in practice, turn around to...
[30:31.000 -> 30:33.000] He'd stand as umpire every time I got an appeal,
[30:33.000 -> 30:35.000] I'd turn around to him, and then he'd review it every time.
[30:35.000 -> 30:37.000] So he said, I need you to start writing down
[30:37.000 -> 30:39.000] when you feel like it was the first thing
[30:39.000 -> 30:41.000] that came to your mind to turn around
[30:41.000 -> 30:43.000] and when it didn't spring to mind.
[30:43.000 -> 30:45.920] After about three months of really trying to turn around,
[30:45.920 -> 30:47.520] I realized this isn't working at all.
[30:47.520 -> 30:50.640] I just can't physically bring myself to turn around.
[30:50.640 -> 30:53.100] Like those 20 seconds when you hit someone on the pad,
[30:53.100 -> 30:54.920] it's just meant, you're just like flying around
[30:54.920 -> 30:56.280] like with airplanes and all sorts.
[30:56.280 -> 30:59.640] So, you know, I was like, I'm fighting a losing battle here,
[30:59.640 -> 31:03.840] but there's something in it that I really found therapeutic
[31:03.840 -> 31:06.720] of writing things and it connected me to my emotions Ond mae rhywbeth yn y pen drwy'r cyfrifiadau, ac mae'n cydynnu i mi i fy emociau,
[31:06.720 -> 31:11.720] a'n cydynnu i mi i sut roeddwn i eisiau cyllid y diwrnod honno.
[31:11.720 -> 31:14.240] Roeddwn i'n ei wneud yn llwyth,
[31:14.240 -> 31:17.520] ac yn ymwneud â'r cymhwyster,
[31:17.520 -> 31:20.040] yw y byddwn i'n cael cymhwyster da,
[31:20.040 -> 31:22.320] y byddwn i'n creu cyfleoedd i'r tîm,
[31:22.320 -> 31:24.720] y byddwn i'n dylunio'r tîm yn y ffyrdd,
[31:24.720 -> 31:27.360] y byddwn i'n siu cyfleoedd i'r tîm, y byddwn i'n rhedeg y tîm yn positif i'r ffyrdd, y byddwn i'n siarad yn positif yn y staff mewnmant.
[31:27.360 -> 31:29.880] Dyna'r hyn rydw i'n ei ystyried ar y dechrau.
[31:29.880 -> 31:30.720] Yn ôl...
[31:30.720 -> 31:33.680] A oedd gennych chi'r ymdrech ar y cyfrifiadau ar y diwrnod honno?
[31:33.680 -> 31:34.920] Oedd o'n ymdrech ar y dechrau?
[31:34.920 -> 31:38.360] Oedd o'n ymdrech, oedd o'n ymdrech ar y diwrnod.
[31:38.360 -> 31:40.000] A oeddwn i'n positif?
[31:40.000 -> 31:42.400] A oeddwn i'n siarad yn y staff mewnmant?
[31:42.400 -> 31:43.400] A oeddwn i'n creu cyfleoedd?
[31:43.400 -> 31:46.640] A oeddwn i'n cael yr ymdrech ar y ffyrdd? Ac yna, y pen ychydig, ycharad yn y staff o ddewis? A ydw i'n creu cyfleoedd? A ydw i'n cael yr adroddiad dda ar y ffyrdd?
[31:46.640 -> 31:48.640] Ac yna, ar ôl fy nhygyrraedd,
[31:48.640 -> 31:49.760] ychydig, chwech mlynedd,
[31:49.760 -> 31:52.560] mae'n mynd i mewn i sut roeddwn i eisiau gweithio.
[31:52.560 -> 31:54.880] Felly, dydw i ddim yn gofyn y pethau hynny.
[31:54.880 -> 31:57.880] Roeddwn i'n fwy, tri ffeiniau,
[31:57.880 -> 32:00.060] tri sylwadau, tri pethau rydw i'n ddiolchgar amdanyn nhw.
[32:00.060 -> 32:02.000] Felly, bob dydd,
[32:02.000 -> 32:03.480] ydyw, yn enwedig drwy'r seriwlau Ashley,
[32:03.480 -> 32:07.120] rwy'n gobeithio, cofi, a mynd, y wake up, coffee and go, you know, how am I feeling?
[32:07.120 -> 32:09.120] And what I got really good at in the last six years
[32:09.120 -> 32:11.280] is actually being genuinely honest with my feelings.
[32:11.280 -> 32:13.240] I would actually write down.
[32:13.240 -> 32:17.720] So first morning of the Ashes test at Edgbaston, I'm feeling nervous,
[32:17.720 -> 32:19.200] you know, connect to that nervousness.
[32:19.200 -> 32:20.480] Why am I feeling nervous?
[32:20.480 -> 32:21.480] Of course, I'm going to feel nervous.
[32:21.480 -> 32:25.800] First day of the Ashes, you know, it sets up the pinnacle of the series. It's such an important...
[32:25.800 -> 32:27.000] I might bowl the first ball of it,
[32:27.000 -> 32:28.200] so I need to prepare for that.
[32:28.200 -> 32:30.600] That's why I've got a bit of anxiety.
[32:30.600 -> 32:32.400] And, you know, I'd get...
[32:32.400 -> 32:34.200] I actually, that day, got to the game,
[32:34.200 -> 32:35.600] chatted to Jimmy.
[32:35.600 -> 32:37.000] Feeling a bit nervous.
[32:37.000 -> 32:38.000] How are you feeling? He goes,
[32:38.000 -> 32:39.600] yeah, I was going to mention the same to you
[32:39.600 -> 32:41.400] because legs are feeling heavy already
[32:41.400 -> 32:42.400] and I've not really done anything.
[32:42.400 -> 32:47.400] So we connected already because I had the... I don't know, like the, not bravery,
[32:47.400 -> 32:50.440] but I'd established how I was feeling in the morning,
[32:50.440 -> 32:53.080] put it down on paper, and that opened it up to me.
[32:53.080 -> 32:55.200] So then I could then connect with teammates and go,
[32:55.200 -> 32:56.920] how you feeling, you good, you feel great?
[32:56.920 -> 32:58.760] And Jimmy, I went, no, I feel nervous.
[32:58.760 -> 32:59.840] I said, God, I do as well, actually.
[32:59.840 -> 33:01.120] Well, you lied to yourself at the beginning
[33:01.120 -> 33:03.920] and not being really honest with actually how you felt, do you think?
[33:03.920 -> 33:10.120] Yeah, yeah, I was being how I wanted to feel instead of how I felt.
[33:10.120 -> 33:17.000] And definitely the better mindset I got in the last couple of years of how I felt helped me
[33:17.000 -> 33:21.480] because I do think sometimes I wake up knackered, like a bold 20 overs, feel stuff.
[33:21.480 -> 33:25.280] And Stokesy and Baz are very positive in the changing. They want positive language.
[33:25.280 -> 33:27.520] So I'd have to write down, right today,
[33:27.520 -> 33:30.200] you're just gonna have to be so over positive.
[33:30.200 -> 33:31.720] Cause I know you feel tired,
[33:31.720 -> 33:33.040] but go in and first thing you say is,
[33:33.040 -> 33:34.480] how good's that coffee at the hotel?
[33:34.480 -> 33:35.480] You know, little things.
[33:35.480 -> 33:36.920] I know that sounds silly,
[33:36.920 -> 33:37.760] but I'd walk in and go,
[33:37.760 -> 33:38.880] can anyone have the cappuccino?
[33:38.880 -> 33:39.880] It's unbelievable at the hotel.
[33:39.880 -> 33:41.640] You know, cause it starts me off.
[33:41.640 -> 33:44.960] Cause the works I've done with psychologists,
[33:44.960 -> 33:45.000] they say everyone would have had it when you walk into an office and someone goes, No, because it starts me off. Because the works I've done with psychologists,
[33:45.000 -> 33:47.100] they say everyone would have had it
[33:47.100 -> 33:49.940] when you walk into an office and someone goes,
[33:49.940 -> 33:51.380] I feel tired.
[33:51.380 -> 33:52.940] And you might not feel tired, but then you go,
[33:52.940 -> 33:53.780] do I feel tired?
[33:53.780 -> 33:55.660] Yeah, I do feel a bit tired, actually, yeah.
[33:55.660 -> 33:56.620] Yeah, I had a bit of a late night.
[33:56.620 -> 33:57.540] Yeah, I feel tired.
[33:57.540 -> 34:02.100] So Baz's culture is about breeding confidence
[34:02.100 -> 34:05.120] and positivity in that way, and he's so authentic with it,
[34:05.120 -> 34:09.200] doesn't necessarily come that naturally to me. So I had to connect with my
[34:09.200 -> 34:13.720] note-writing to then be able to go, I feel great actually, I'm actually going to
[34:13.720 -> 34:17.360] give positive energy to the group because I've got my real thoughts
[34:17.360 -> 34:19.360] down on a piece of paper, if that makes sense.
[34:19.360 -> 34:29.260] Because you say in the book that there was a point where you were actually a bit negative maybe around the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think definitely day three,
[34:29.280 -> 34:31.680] might have not any wickets or you might not have bowled well,
[34:31.680 -> 34:33.640] the pitch doesn't feel great.
[34:33.640 -> 34:35.160] So edge busting again, for an example,
[34:35.160 -> 34:37.240] Lords for an example, I had written in there,
[34:37.240 -> 34:39.240] appreciate the pitch isn't suiting you.
[34:39.240 -> 34:42.480] Know it's slow, know it's not really working for you,
[34:42.480 -> 34:45.200] but is what it is get over it, you know
[34:45.200 -> 34:47.480] You've noted it, but the lads don't need to hear that
[34:47.560 -> 34:53.760] So that was the sort of thing that I think I developed massively with towards the end and wish I did that
[34:54.280 -> 34:56.280] earlier for sure
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[38:13.400 -> 38:17.400] And I still think, you know, particularly in this country, I still think we're a
[38:17.400 -> 38:22.280] little bit suspicious of this sort of stuff. But the truth is, you know, you've
[38:22.280 -> 38:26.000] operated at the elite level and gone out on the most incredible high.
[38:26.000 -> 38:29.000] You wouldn't have been able to do what you did without it, would you?
[38:29.000 -> 38:34.000] No, no. I think I relied on talent for the early part of my career
[38:34.000 -> 38:37.000] and then Durban happened and that was a slap like,
[38:37.000 -> 38:40.000] OK, talent isn't going to get you very far in this game,
[38:40.000 -> 38:42.000] you've got to build other things.
[38:42.000 -> 38:47.920] And then I would say the mentality side of my game,
[38:47.920 -> 38:49.120] I'm not the most talented.
[38:49.120 -> 38:50.960] I have to work really hard.
[38:50.960 -> 38:54.800] I always had something looking to drive me forward.
[38:54.800 -> 38:57.360] I've mentioned to you about having an Everest in my mind.
[38:57.360 -> 38:59.440] What's my Everest? What am I chasing?
[38:59.440 -> 39:02.800] So this summer it was, I know Steve Smith and Marnus
[39:02.800 -> 39:08.440] don't like the ball so much moving away from them. I'm gonna create an outswinger that I'm gonna work really hard on.
[39:09.000 -> 39:11.760] Of course I could bowl an outswinger, I'm 36 years old at the time.
[39:11.760 -> 39:14.960] I needed to be better, I need to be on the money straight away and
[39:15.960 -> 39:21.480] that was something that moved me forward and I always had to have a goal that was tangible and
[39:21.840 -> 39:26.520] close, you know, so the Everest is, yeah, might be ashes in four years' time.
[39:26.520 -> 39:27.520] What's going to get me there?
[39:27.520 -> 39:29.480] Well, the out swing at a Marlison Smith will help me.
[39:29.480 -> 39:33.160] The work around the wicket to the left handers will help me.
[39:33.160 -> 39:35.400] So it's little goals within a big one.
[39:35.400 -> 39:37.720] And ultimately, if you just keep them in your own brain
[39:37.720 -> 39:40.400] and don't, not verbalize them,
[39:40.400 -> 39:42.840] but don't put them on paper to appreciate
[39:42.840 -> 39:44.720] and look at and review against,
[39:44.720 -> 39:46.000] well, you're just floating around.
[39:46.000 -> 39:48.000] You don't actually have the direction that you need.
[39:48.000 -> 39:52.000] And you describe yourself in the book as being an adaptable realist.
[39:52.000 -> 39:54.000] What's that?
[39:54.000 -> 39:58.000] That was actually part of my psychological report.
[39:58.000 -> 40:00.000] Yeah, the ECB do.
[40:00.000 -> 40:03.000] They do sort of a big test on you as players every couple of years
[40:03.000 -> 40:06.000] to help the coaches, actually, so the coaches can figure out the best way to talk to players Ie, rydw i'n mynd i wneud ystod o'r test arnoch chi fel chwaraewyr bob dydd. I helpu'r coaches, i gyd.
[40:06.000 -> 40:09.000] Felly gall y coaches ddeall'r ffordd gwych i siarad â chwaraewyr
[40:09.000 -> 40:11.000] a chael yr hollbwysig o'u gilydd.
[40:11.000 -> 40:13.000] Ie, roeddwn i'n adaptator cyffredinol.
[40:13.000 -> 40:27.000] Felly, dechreu, dwi ddim yn rhoi'r ffyrdd o'r gwych i mi. Dwi ddim eisiau clywed stats a ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r f because of this and then I can adapt and go for the realism of that information.
[40:27.000 -> 40:31.000] When you were on the pitch, you got to this point, you'd made your notes,
[40:31.000 -> 40:35.000] you'd been working with the psychologist, you had incredible natural ability,
[40:35.000 -> 40:37.000] working really hard, but things still go wrong.
[40:37.000 -> 40:38.000] Absolutely.
[40:38.000 -> 40:41.000] How did you deal with that? You wrote about trigger thoughts.
[40:41.000 -> 40:44.000] What were the trigger thoughts? What were the tools you had in your armour
[40:44.000 -> 40:45.640] that when things weren't going right,
[40:45.640 -> 40:46.880] you could deal with them?
[40:48.280 -> 40:51.640] Well, I mean, having partnerships within the group was massive.
[40:51.640 -> 40:54.200] So Jimmy is a great friend of mine and a big partner.
[40:54.200 -> 40:55.840] Stokes, he's the same.
[40:55.840 -> 40:56.920] I think it's really difficult.
[40:56.920 -> 40:59.360] I have so much respect for individual sports people,
[40:59.360 -> 41:03.400] you know, tennis players and who have to do all this themselves.
[41:03.400 -> 41:04.440] If they're slightly off,
[41:04.440 -> 41:06.800] they've got to find exactly what they're doing
[41:06.800 -> 41:07.880] and put it right straight away.
[41:07.880 -> 41:10.880] Whereas I definitely use the energy of other people
[41:10.880 -> 41:13.640] to bounce ideas off and be like,
[41:13.640 -> 41:16.440] Jim, I just feel like I'm overstriding.
[41:16.440 -> 41:18.360] Have a look at this, would you, for two balls
[41:18.360 -> 41:19.400] and give me your feedback.
[41:19.400 -> 41:23.160] So a trigger for me would be get out of here,
[41:23.160 -> 41:27.320] of your own brain, stop being internal, get external for a minute.
[41:27.320 -> 41:31.440] Ask an opinion of someone, because it gets then out of my brain
[41:31.440 -> 41:32.840] and into someone else's, and they might go,
[41:32.840 -> 41:35.400] actually, yeah, your knees are not picking up like they were.
[41:35.400 -> 41:39.600] And then if that doesn't work, for me, the crowd.
[41:39.600 -> 41:42.280] Because if I'm thinking technical, running in going,
[41:42.280 -> 41:43.840] right, where are my shoulders?
[41:43.840 -> 41:45.680] What's my front arm doing? You know, all that wind's in my face, it's just put me off. I'm thinking technical, running in going, right, where are my shoulders? What's my front arm doing?
[41:45.680 -> 41:48.280] All that wind's in my face, it's just put me off.
[41:48.280 -> 41:49.280] I'm done.
[41:49.280 -> 41:53.560] I need to have something else that's got my mind in that competitive spirit.
[41:53.560 -> 41:57.400] And the crowd became, in my notes, a big thing.
[41:57.400 -> 42:01.200] Probably the most written thing throughout this Asher series was engage the crowd.
[42:01.200 -> 42:07.000] And if I felt a bit energy-less or things weren't going my way, just felt slightly off,
[42:07.000 -> 42:10.400] out it came, you know, here we go.
[42:10.400 -> 42:12.840] And that actually became a really big thing for me because it's quite a brave thing to
[42:12.840 -> 42:13.840] do.
[42:13.840 -> 42:19.360] Ultimately, young players aren't going to do that so much because if I engage the crowd
[42:19.360 -> 42:27.500] and then bowl a pile of rubbish, not a great look, is it? So, but that helped me rev myself up, get
[42:27.500 -> 42:33.140] myself in a competitive spirit, because I knew that I had to deliver my skill, but also
[42:33.140 -> 42:38.200] everything became external and I stopped thinking about little nonsenses that were taking away
[42:38.200 -> 42:39.200] from the battle.
[42:39.200 -> 42:44.600] And you do all that and you still get hit for six, right? What happens then, internally?
[42:44.600 -> 42:45.160] You swear?
[42:45.160 -> 42:46.560] Yeah.
[42:46.560 -> 42:48.440] Yeah, so one of my little triggers
[42:48.440 -> 42:49.880] that I actually picked up from Tiger Woods
[42:49.880 -> 42:52.600] was always look above the stands.
[42:52.600 -> 42:56.560] So the view of that is, if someone's watching on TV
[42:56.560 -> 42:57.800] or the opposition are watching me,
[42:57.800 -> 42:59.880] I wouldn't want them to know if I've been hit for four,
[42:59.880 -> 43:02.720] bowled a great ball, got a player miss, been hit for six.
[43:02.720 -> 43:05.720] My posture should never change walking back to my mark.
[43:05.720 -> 43:07.760] I should always be head up, I'm six foot six,
[43:07.760 -> 43:10.400] head up, stand tall, eyes above the stands.
[43:10.400 -> 43:13.960] And ultimately, my view on it was if I got my eyes to the clouds,
[43:13.960 -> 43:15.640] I'm not thinking about...
[43:15.640 -> 43:17.840] You know, it's weird when you're on the pitch, you do see faces.
[43:17.840 -> 43:21.280] You think, that fan's a bit disappointed with that.
[43:21.280 -> 43:23.960] You know, you do, you do, like, you do, you go,
[43:23.960 -> 43:27.080] oh, God, like, they're all just drinking the champagne now.
[43:27.080 -> 43:28.840] They're not interested in this anymore.
[43:28.840 -> 43:32.080] So, get my eyes above the stands
[43:32.080 -> 43:34.180] and zone out of the hot zone for a bit,
[43:34.180 -> 43:36.480] refocus, turn, and go.
[43:36.480 -> 43:38.680] That would be a big trigger for me to,
[43:38.680 -> 43:40.680] you know if I'm not getting it quite right
[43:40.680 -> 43:41.940] if my eyes are really up.
[43:41.940 -> 43:44.200] You know, I'm getting out of the cauldron.
[43:44.200 -> 43:48.780] I'm making sure that I leave that ball behind and reset.
[43:48.780 -> 43:51.680] But yeah, I think ultimately,
[43:51.680 -> 43:53.440] Josh Butler and I have this conversation all the time.
[43:53.440 -> 43:55.840] Cricket's an interesting sport that really,
[43:55.840 -> 43:58.920] you're only probably one in 10,
[43:58.920 -> 44:01.160] two in 10 days of really great days.
[44:01.160 -> 44:04.760] It's a game based around being able to deal with failure
[44:04.760 -> 44:07.760] and being able to deal with someone getting the better of you
[44:07.760 -> 44:08.680] but then bouncing back.
[44:08.680 -> 44:10.080] You know, you're not gonna score 100 every day.
[44:10.080 -> 44:11.680] You're not gonna get five for every day.
[44:11.680 -> 44:13.320] But that's why you can't judge yourself
[44:13.320 -> 44:14.600] on the outcome all the time.
[44:14.600 -> 44:17.160] You have to judge yourself on how you felt,
[44:17.160 -> 44:18.600] whether you delivered your skill,
[44:18.600 -> 44:19.800] whether you did all you can do,
[44:19.800 -> 44:21.880] because ultimately I can bowl the best spell of my life,
[44:21.880 -> 44:25.600] get an onfer, and then bowl really badly and
[44:25.600 -> 44:26.600] get five-fa.
[44:26.600 -> 44:30.720] So if I'm jumping for joy when I get five-fa, it's actually false.
[44:30.720 -> 44:37.600] And then if it's all going to poo, then just flip the bales over and you're all right.
[44:37.600 -> 44:43.600] It worked for you.
[44:43.600 -> 44:48.760] I tried it twice in my career and two wickets fell.
[44:48.760 -> 44:50.160] Should have tried it 17 years ago.
[44:50.160 -> 44:51.160] It would have been all right.
[44:51.160 -> 44:55.520] Actually, the first one was, you know, I'll talk about the second one later, but the first
[44:55.520 -> 44:57.480] one was Mark Wood was bowling at Marnas Labasheire.
[44:57.480 -> 45:00.440] I'm at mid-arm and the oval's gone quiet.
[45:00.440 -> 45:04.280] It's got 11 runs in 14 overs.
[45:04.280 -> 45:06.840] We're bowling great. Player misses. We're not getting a nick.
[45:06.840 -> 45:08.340] And I was stood at mid-arm thinking,
[45:08.340 -> 45:10.540] I'm bored.
[45:10.540 -> 45:12.000] And I'm playing Ashes cricket.
[45:12.000 -> 45:13.700] If I'm bored, what are the crowd thinking?
[45:13.700 -> 45:15.740] And, you know, we're all of our team ethos
[45:15.740 -> 45:17.540] is about entertaining the crowd.
[45:17.540 -> 45:22.340] And I thought, I'd heard.
[45:22.340 -> 45:23.940] It turns out I thought I heard.
[45:23.940 -> 45:28.160] I'd heard that there was an Australian habit
[45:28.160 -> 45:31.400] that if you flip the bales over, it was a change of luck.
[45:31.400 -> 45:33.300] I've spoken to quite a few Australians since
[45:33.300 -> 45:35.440] and none of them have confirmed that theory,
[45:35.440 -> 45:40.120] but I walked up to the bales, Marnus's end,
[45:40.120 -> 45:42.680] a bit to get in his grill a little bit, into his bubble,
[45:42.680 -> 45:45.160] just get into his space, sort of be a presence there.
[45:45.900 -> 45:49.120] And I flipped them over and not many people noticed actually.
[45:49.120 -> 45:50.780] And I wandered back to mid-arm.
[45:50.860 -> 45:51.940] And Mark Wood got the edge.
[45:51.940 -> 45:53.180] Rudy took a great catch.
[45:53.700 -> 45:55.820] And I was like, it's worked.
[45:55.820 -> 45:56.220] I can't believe it.
[45:56.540 -> 46:00.460] So I started running towards Stokesy, who's captain at mid-off,
[46:00.580 -> 46:02.080] because he was like cheering away.
[46:02.320 -> 46:04.740] And on my route to Stokesy, Usman Khawaja,
[46:04.740 -> 46:08.200] the non-strikers at the stumps, and for the first time my whole career I
[46:08.200 -> 46:11.440] celebrated with the opposition. I put my hands on his shoulders and went,
[46:11.440 -> 46:18.680] it worked! It worked! I was like, what am I doing? And that's when I got to my
[46:18.680 -> 46:21.480] teammates and they're like, oh my god you changed the bails, it worked! Like what
[46:21.480 -> 46:31.280] did you do that for? I said, I thought it was a change of luck. He's like, oh, that's unbelievable. So it worked, number one. And very strangely, it worked, number two as well.
[46:31.280 -> 46:37.360] Yeah. And we will have a look in the second half of the show about the moment that happened and the luck that came from it.
[46:37.360 -> 46:43.960] You've mentioned a couple of times there, playing with freedom, focusing on the process, not the outcome.
[46:43.960 -> 46:48.000] This is all messages from Brendan McCullum, right?
[46:48.000 -> 46:49.120] This is what he lives by.
[46:49.120 -> 46:51.040] It's baseball era, but you're not allowed to say baseball
[46:51.040 -> 46:52.960] because he hates the phrase baseball, right?
[46:52.960 -> 46:53.800] That's true.
[46:53.800 -> 46:54.920] Yeah.
[46:54.920 -> 46:56.080] I'll say it, you don't.
[46:57.240 -> 46:59.440] I mean, it took the country by storm this summer.
[46:59.440 -> 47:01.480] I would love to know when Brendan first walks in,
[47:01.480 -> 47:02.300] what does he do?
[47:02.300 -> 47:06.880] What does he say to take away the fear of playing for your country on the biggest stage of all?
[47:06.880 -> 47:09.760] Because it's one thing to say, don't be fearful, it's a totally different thing
[47:09.760 -> 47:13.360] to be able to create that in a team.
[47:13.360 -> 47:17.200] Yeah, I mean he took over at a time we'd won one in 17 tests, so it's almost like,
[47:17.200 -> 47:20.480] you know, if you're a coach it's probably a great time to take over, isn't it?
[47:20.480 -> 47:24.080] You're not gonna do any worse than what's come,
[47:24.080 -> 47:27.440] and you can really stamp a different mindset or a different authority on it.
[47:27.440 -> 47:29.760] And, you know, he was in the Laws Changer room.
[47:29.760 -> 47:31.800] He's not one for PowerPoint presentations.
[47:31.800 -> 47:33.920] He doesn't do grand speeches.
[47:33.920 -> 47:36.440] We were just getting ready for training day one.
[47:36.440 -> 47:39.520] And he said, boys, just, you know, have a couple of minutes.
[47:40.720 -> 47:43.160] You know, I want us to play attacking cricket.
[47:43.160 -> 47:44.560] I'm going to back you as players.
[47:44.560 -> 47:46.400] You're my team. I want us to always attacking cricket. I'm going to back you as players. You're my team.
[47:46.400 -> 47:48.320] I want us to always have the mindset
[47:48.320 -> 47:51.000] that if you can take the attacking option, do it.
[47:51.000 -> 47:52.080] You've got, you know,
[47:52.080 -> 47:54.160] that's what the change room want from you.
[47:54.160 -> 47:57.320] He lives by the saying sort of run towards the danger.
[47:57.320 -> 47:59.480] You know, if there's danger, run at it, don't back off it.
[47:59.480 -> 48:01.680] And he'll always encourage you to, you know,
[48:01.680 -> 48:03.700] sprint towards pressure moments.
[48:04.920 -> 48:05.000] Does that work for everyone though? Well, it has in this team I always encourage you to sprint towards pressure moments.
[48:05.000 -> 48:07.080] Does that work for everyone though?
[48:07.080 -> 48:08.320] Well, it has in this team
[48:08.320 -> 48:10.320] because you've sort of got to live by that, you know,
[48:10.320 -> 48:12.320] and it's a talk in the changing room.
[48:12.320 -> 48:14.480] If we go a bit negative in with our shell,
[48:14.480 -> 48:17.040] like recognize that, come out of it.
[48:17.040 -> 48:20.120] And he said, love you to get on the back pages of the papers,
[48:20.120 -> 48:22.040] but never end up on the front,
[48:22.040 -> 48:24.160] which is quite a good message as well.
[48:24.160 -> 48:29.060] So I think what did he do to sort of get that fear of failure
[48:30.340 -> 48:31.740] that positivity within the group?
[48:31.740 -> 48:34.780] A, I think it's incredibly authentic to both Ben and him
[48:34.780 -> 48:36.980] that this positive style of cricket,
[48:36.980 -> 48:40.580] he was a genuine believer that in cricket
[48:40.580 -> 48:42.220] to sell tickets in the stadium,
[48:42.220 -> 48:43.700] you're fighting against football,
[48:43.700 -> 48:47.280] theaters, cinemas, museums,
[48:47.280 -> 48:49.000] people have spent the money to come and watch you
[48:49.000 -> 48:51.320] here at Lords at home of cricket, entertain them.
[48:51.320 -> 48:53.880] You know, ultimately they don't want to see you block it
[48:53.880 -> 48:57.440] and try and like survive, go and hit boundaries, hit sixes,
[48:57.440 -> 48:59.880] you know, try and take wickets at every ball,
[48:59.880 -> 49:03.560] which is quite a free way of looking at the game
[49:03.560 -> 49:05.280] because ultimately professional sport,
[49:05.280 -> 49:07.380] I've always viewed professional sport
[49:07.380 -> 49:09.320] as this long straight road.
[49:09.320 -> 49:12.160] And the better you can stay on that straight road,
[49:12.160 -> 49:13.900] there's all things trying to knock you off all the time,
[49:13.900 -> 49:15.160] trying to bunt you off.
[49:15.160 -> 49:16.440] But if you stay on that straight road,
[49:16.440 -> 49:17.440] you'll have great success.
[49:17.440 -> 49:19.520] And he was just basically saying,
[49:19.520 -> 49:21.200] this is the direction forward.
[49:21.200 -> 49:23.680] We're going to run forward all the time.
[49:23.680 -> 49:25.200] We're going to take no negativity in the change. I mean, honestly, in 15 months,
[49:25.200 -> 49:28.000] I've never heard him say one negative word, not once.
[49:28.000 -> 49:29.800] And I think that's really important
[49:29.800 -> 49:31.800] because if he comes out and says,
[49:31.800 -> 49:33.800] play without fear, I'm going to back you,
[49:33.800 -> 49:35.400] you know, I prefer you to get caught long off
[49:35.400 -> 49:36.800] than caught in the slips defending,
[49:36.800 -> 49:38.800] then if you get out, caught long off,
[49:38.800 -> 49:41.200] and he goes, that's a crap shot.
[49:41.200 -> 49:42.600] Why did you play that?
[49:42.600 -> 49:43.800] The whole thing's blown.
[49:43.800 -> 49:45.240] But also if your teammates go, shouldn't's a crap shot. Why did you play that? The whole thing's blown.
[49:45.240 -> 49:47.580] But also if your teammates go,
[49:47.580 -> 49:50.000] shouldn't have played that shot.
[49:50.000 -> 49:51.000] That's not acceptable.
[49:51.000 -> 49:54.440] It's all about, you just need to hit a yard further.
[49:54.440 -> 49:56.140] If you hit a yard further, that's six, great shot.
[49:56.140 -> 49:57.720] You know, so it's a freedom.
[49:57.720 -> 50:01.120] And one thing that he is incredible at,
[50:01.120 -> 50:02.840] which is only a tiny thing,
[50:02.840 -> 50:06.140] he praises small things within the changing room.
[50:06.140 -> 50:09.320] So if Joe Root gets 150, he's not there going,
[50:09.320 -> 50:11.220] Joe, you're the best player in the world.
[50:11.220 -> 50:14.620] You're amazing, 150, another one, well done, awesome.
[50:14.620 -> 50:17.460] Barely even mentions the 150, he'll go,
[50:17.460 -> 50:20.520] Johnny Bester might've got 15, but hit two great fours.
[50:20.520 -> 50:22.300] He'll go, I just want to say, Johnny,
[50:22.300 -> 50:24.700] those two fours, they changed the momentum of the game.
[50:24.700 -> 50:27.160] Honestly, that's exactly what we want to play like.
[50:27.160 -> 50:28.920] That's exactly what we want.
[50:28.920 -> 50:31.440] You put the pressure back on the bowlers.
[50:31.440 -> 50:33.320] Yeah, you got out, but you got out in a way
[50:33.320 -> 50:35.680] that we're trying to promote the game.
[50:35.680 -> 50:37.060] So stick doing that.
[50:37.060 -> 50:39.840] And if you continue doing that, you'll win us a game soon.
[50:39.840 -> 50:41.820] And just doing little things like that,
[50:41.820 -> 50:44.640] suddenly Johnny's got 15 and he's sat there like that.
[50:44.640 -> 50:46.720] Baz mentions him, he's like, yeah.
[50:46.720 -> 50:49.720] Yeah, you know, and it's a tiny,
[50:49.720 -> 50:53.140] like he really focuses on building up
[50:53.140 -> 50:55.260] little positivities all the time.
[50:55.260 -> 50:58.320] You know, for me, he knew I'm a competitive person.
[50:58.320 -> 51:00.840] It would be, you know, get in a battle for us today
[51:00.840 -> 51:03.880] or get the crowd, crowd's you today, crowd's you.
[51:03.880 -> 51:06.080] Just reminding me, even if I go a bit quiet,
[51:06.080 -> 51:09.800] he'll spot it and go, go on, get everyone going out there.
[51:09.800 -> 51:11.840] Cause he knows, never come to me and go,
[51:11.840 -> 51:14.440] think about your front arm or you look like,
[51:14.440 -> 51:16.800] you're running, your stride pattern's too long.
[51:16.800 -> 51:18.120] Nothing ever like that.
[51:18.120 -> 51:20.560] You know, he says, you'll never see me on the tools.
[51:20.560 -> 51:22.640] What he means by that, you'll never see him get technical
[51:22.640 -> 51:25.120] and going on the laptop and studying
[51:25.120 -> 51:25.960] why you're getting out
[51:25.960 -> 51:27.960] because your foot's gone an inch that way.
[51:27.960 -> 51:29.960] He's got cover coaches that can guide that,
[51:29.960 -> 51:33.660] but he's very much the mentality of being positive.
[51:33.660 -> 51:35.560] And, you know, without sticking on Baz too long,
[51:35.560 -> 51:37.040] there was one moment at Trent Bridge.
[51:37.040 -> 51:38.840] I don't know if you remember, England, New Zealand,
[51:38.840 -> 51:42.280] we needed, we're chasing 280, got to T,
[51:42.280 -> 51:44.200] I needed 170.
[51:44.200 -> 51:46.400] This is only his second ever game in charge.
[51:46.400 -> 51:51.400] Ben and Johnny are at the crease and come in at T,
[51:51.400 -> 51:53.720] game's on the line a bit and Ben folks in next
[51:53.720 -> 51:56.560] and Ben goes, oh, if we lose a wicket, like what's my job?
[51:56.560 -> 51:57.520] Am I shutting up shop?
[51:57.520 -> 51:59.320] Am I, you know, going for the draw?
[51:59.320 -> 52:01.480] Get the draw, we've won it up in the series.
[52:01.480 -> 52:03.880] But it's like, everyone in, everyone come in.
[52:03.880 -> 52:06.000] In we get, 20 minute tea break.
[52:06.000 -> 52:07.000] Just so we're all clear,
[52:07.000 -> 52:09.000] we're going for the win at all costs.
[52:09.000 -> 52:11.000] Jimmy, you're the last man.
[52:11.000 -> 52:12.000] If you get out there, try and hit boundaries,
[52:12.000 -> 52:13.000] try and hit runs,
[52:13.000 -> 52:15.000] take the game away from New Zealand.
[52:15.000 -> 52:19.000] You know, I don't believe in draws,
[52:19.000 -> 52:21.000] I'm not interested in draws.
[52:21.000 -> 52:23.000] Look outside, and he made everyone look at Trent Bridge,
[52:23.000 -> 52:28.000] full house on a Monday. He goes, these guys have spent money to come and watch. They don't want to
[52:28.000 -> 52:32.000] see you block the ball. Go and win the game. And if you lose trying to win, we're all happy,
[52:32.000 -> 52:41.240] but go and win the game. And everyone was like, okay, that's quite un-English. And we
[52:41.240 -> 52:46.600] went out after tea, so everyone sort of sat there watching, and Matt Henry bowls Johnny Bester a bounce,
[52:46.600 -> 52:48.600] a first ball after tea, and Johnny ducks it,
[52:48.600 -> 52:50.600] and Stokesy walks down to Johnny and goes,
[52:50.600 -> 52:51.600] what are you doing?
[52:51.600 -> 52:54.000] And Johnny goes, well, I was having a look at it,
[52:54.000 -> 52:55.000] first ball after tea.
[52:55.000 -> 52:58.000] He goes, don't have a look at it, hit it for six.
[52:58.000 -> 53:00.000] And then, as you remember, Johnny just went,
[53:00.000 -> 53:02.000] got 100, and we won the game.
[53:02.000 -> 53:04.000] And I think that was such a crucial moment
[53:04.000 -> 53:07.080] because it was the coach saying what he wanted
[53:07.080 -> 53:09.380] and then a senior player went and delivered it.
[53:09.380 -> 53:10.880] And that just gave the whole group
[53:10.880 -> 53:13.040] like such belief that anything was possible.
[53:13.040 -> 53:15.640] And we went on that run of winning 10 out of 11, I think.
[53:15.640 -> 53:20.120] And ultimately, I think the thing that rang true the most
[53:20.120 -> 53:24.160] for me was, we're two-0 down in the Ashes this year.
[53:24.160 -> 53:26.640] I'm walking out getting a coffee with Molly,
[53:26.640 -> 53:28.540] and someone walked past me and went,
[53:28.540 -> 53:31.180] loving the cricket, keep going.
[53:31.180 -> 53:34.780] And I wanted to go, we're 2-0 down.
[53:34.780 -> 53:36.920] That was my instinct, I love winning,
[53:36.920 -> 53:40.700] and I said, we're 2-0 down, we need to win the next game.
[53:40.700 -> 53:43.360] But that really stuck with me, that actually the public
[53:43.360 -> 53:45.000] were just enjoying the style of cricket
[53:45.000 -> 53:49.000] and it becomes slight buzz have managed to change not just 11 players,
[53:49.000 -> 53:53.000] maybe even the public's view that this is an entertainment sport
[53:53.000 -> 53:56.000] and actually it's more fun watching teams have a real crack.
[53:56.000 -> 54:01.000] And if it fails, yeah, we don't mind losing. But if it's successful, it's really fun.
[54:01.000 -> 54:04.000] We also can't discount the role of Ben Stokes in this.
[54:04.000 -> 54:05.120] You know, you wrote brilliantly
[54:05.120 -> 54:10.320] in the book about your admiration for Brendan, but also you make it absolutely clear your deep
[54:10.320 -> 54:16.240] respect for Ben. What lesson from your time spent with him would you like to share with us that
[54:16.240 -> 54:21.120] really sort of lays bare just what a special player he is, but more than that, a special person,
[54:21.120 -> 54:26.940] a special leader? A few times. I mean, he is very authentic of what he says.
[54:26.940 -> 54:29.400] You know, you can tell that he's never,
[54:29.400 -> 54:32.000] he never like pre-writes a speech or anything
[54:32.000 -> 54:32.840] and comes to deliver it.
[54:32.840 -> 54:35.800] He just sort of says what comes to his mind that time.
[54:35.800 -> 54:37.520] But I think the style of cricket that we play
[54:37.520 -> 54:40.720] is very much how Stokesy lives his life
[54:40.720 -> 54:41.600] without speaking out of turn.
[54:41.600 -> 54:42.600] He's quite held to scale too.
[54:42.600 -> 54:43.520] He's quite unpredictable.
[54:43.520 -> 54:46.080] You don't really know what's coming your way.
[54:46.080 -> 54:48.100] And that's how we play cricket really.
[54:48.100 -> 54:51.680] But he actually, before he took over as captain,
[54:51.680 -> 54:54.480] but he covered a game when Ruti was,
[54:55.760 -> 54:57.400] his second child was being born.
[54:57.400 -> 54:59.760] And I actually, Stokes, he dropped me.
[54:59.760 -> 55:01.780] It was the COVID game at South Africa.
[55:01.780 -> 55:05.240] I did a bit of a silly interview in a big brother tent,
[55:05.240 -> 55:06.080] if you remember.
[55:07.080 -> 55:09.440] And he dropped me,
[55:09.440 -> 55:11.120] cause he sort of said,
[55:11.120 -> 55:12.800] look, I'm going with the pace of these guys.
[55:12.800 -> 55:14.360] And I felt quite emotional about that.
[55:14.360 -> 55:16.760] I was leading Wicket Taker in the world at the time.
[55:16.760 -> 55:18.600] I didn't agree with the decision.
[55:18.600 -> 55:21.800] And the next day, we weren't allowed in each other's room.
[55:21.800 -> 55:23.640] It was the COVID, you know, you had your own room.
[55:23.640 -> 55:24.680] You weren't allowed to eat together.
[55:24.680 -> 55:27.040] You had single like exam tables to eat on,
[55:27.040 -> 55:28.280] all that sort of thing.
[55:28.280 -> 55:30.400] And he knocked on my door and came in my room,
[55:30.400 -> 55:32.800] which was, you know, we weren't allowed to do at the time,
[55:32.800 -> 55:36.080] but, and he just, it wasn't him coming in as a captain
[55:36.080 -> 55:37.480] or anything, he just went, how are you, mate?
[55:37.480 -> 55:38.400] How you doing?
[55:38.400 -> 55:39.480] I was just sat in a dark room,
[55:39.480 -> 55:41.240] like it wasn't around family or anything,
[55:41.240 -> 55:42.640] so we weren't allowed out.
[55:42.640 -> 55:45.240] And that was probably his strongest bit of leadership.
[55:45.240 -> 55:48.040] He knew that he'd maybe been quite a big part
[55:48.040 -> 55:49.760] in the decision of leaving me out,
[55:49.760 -> 55:53.040] but he had the heart and respect to come and knock on my room,
[55:53.040 -> 55:54.080] just check how I was.
[55:54.080 -> 55:55.680] He didn't go, how are you bowling?
[55:55.680 -> 55:56.520] Like, how's the cricket?
[55:56.520 -> 55:57.840] All that, just cause how are you doing?
[55:57.840 -> 55:59.520] And, you know, that's probably,
[55:59.520 -> 56:01.280] he's like that with every single player.
[56:01.280 -> 56:02.600] He calls you at random times,
[56:02.600 -> 56:03.720] just checking in how you're doing.
[56:03.720 -> 56:06.160] So he's just a, ultimately Baz and Stokes,
[56:06.160 -> 56:07.760] they're just really great human beings.
[56:07.760 -> 56:11.040] And that's led to the team just falling in love
[56:11.040 -> 56:12.600] with their style of leading, I think.
[56:12.600 -> 56:13.440] Brilliant.
[56:13.440 -> 56:15.160] And what did that do for you when he came in and said that?
[56:15.160 -> 56:16.000] It lifted me.
[56:16.000 -> 56:18.720] I mean, I had no real anger towards him anyway,
[56:18.720 -> 56:20.800] particularly I was angry a bit at myself
[56:20.800 -> 56:21.840] for not getting in the team
[56:21.840 -> 56:25.320] and some other decision-making that I didn't agree with.
[56:25.320 -> 56:29.760] But ultimately, I loved the fact that he took ownership
[56:29.760 -> 56:32.600] of the decision a little bit and looked at me in the eye
[56:32.600 -> 56:35.140] and said he had a part to play.
[56:35.140 -> 56:36.240] He didn't say it was a wrong decision
[56:36.240 -> 56:41.240] or the right decision, but he boosted me from that moment.
[56:42.120 -> 56:43.520] I knew it wasn't a personal thing.
[56:43.520 -> 56:46.140] I knew our friendship wasn't gonna be affected.
[56:46.140 -> 56:47.580] I could draw a line in the sand
[56:47.580 -> 56:49.680] and go and attack and get better.
[56:49.680 -> 56:51.980] And actually I had a really good end of that summer
[56:51.980 -> 56:53.060] from that moment.
[56:53.060 -> 56:56.120] So yeah, that taught me that if there's ever any sort of
[56:56.120 -> 56:59.200] niggle or question marks and someone's brain's whirling,
[56:59.200 -> 57:01.000] just go and speak to them, be honest,
[57:01.000 -> 57:05.000] go and almost attack the awkwardness
[57:05.400 -> 57:07.520] and people get over it.
[57:07.520 -> 57:10.360] And look, we all know what you did as a cricketer.
[57:10.360 -> 57:12.280] I think this has been such an interesting insight
[57:12.280 -> 57:13.480] into how you've done it.
[57:13.480 -> 57:15.560] I suppose, before we wrap up this first half,
[57:15.560 -> 57:17.680] I'm interested in where does the energy go now?
[57:17.680 -> 57:19.520] You're someone who made notes every day.
[57:19.520 -> 57:21.320] You're someone who was in a team environment.
[57:21.320 -> 57:22.560] You were ultra competitive.
[57:22.560 -> 57:23.600] You had your Everest.
[57:23.600 -> 57:25.120] You had the next test,
[57:25.120 -> 57:27.040] the next series, the next competition,
[57:27.040 -> 57:30.900] the next opportunity to push yourself to the limit.
[57:30.900 -> 57:34.120] Like as you sit here today, where's all that energy gone?
[57:34.120 -> 57:35.920] You've had a one year old baby before.
[57:35.920 -> 57:36.760] Oh mate.
[57:36.760 -> 57:38.560] That energy goes up.
[57:38.560 -> 57:39.400] Say no more.
[57:39.400 -> 57:40.680] Say no more.
[57:40.680 -> 57:44.580] No, I mean, I think, you know, it's really important to,
[57:44.580 -> 57:46.000] that's why I don't like the R word,
[57:46.000 -> 57:49.000] because I am just moving sideways in different careers,
[57:49.000 -> 57:52.000] whether it goes into coaching, whether it's punditry.
[57:52.000 -> 57:56.000] I think it's really important to have quite a clear direction,
[57:56.000 -> 57:59.000] but also quite conscious that I don't want to leap
[57:59.000 -> 58:04.000] into a decision straightaway of 100% committing to that,
[58:04.000 -> 58:07.080] because if I do that and in six months I go,
[58:07.080 -> 58:09.840] ooh, I'm not sure about that,
[58:09.840 -> 58:12.520] that would not sit that comfortably with me.
[58:12.520 -> 58:15.280] So I'm sort of starting a bit of that journey again
[58:15.280 -> 58:17.520] of feeling what I really do enjoy,
[58:19.240 -> 58:21.280] ultimately spending a little bit more time at home
[58:21.280 -> 58:24.720] with the family and figuring out what that next thing is.
[58:24.720 -> 58:27.080] But I've set a goal that basically from 2024,
[58:27.080 -> 58:30.120] I'll be very clear in where I want to go
[58:30.120 -> 58:32.360] and get back to it.
[58:32.360 -> 58:33.200] Cricket's my love.
[58:33.200 -> 58:34.220] I want to stay within cricket,
[58:34.220 -> 58:37.080] whether that be full-time coaching straight away,
[58:37.080 -> 58:39.800] probably not because of the extra travel
[58:39.800 -> 58:40.760] and the time commitment.
[58:40.760 -> 58:42.480] And actually whether I'd be good enough
[58:42.480 -> 58:44.680] to do that straight away, I'm not sure.
[58:44.680 -> 58:45.360] But give my knowledge that I've gained commitment and actually whether I'd be good enough to do that straight away, I'm not sure, but
[58:49.920 -> 58:51.040] you know, give my knowledge that I've gained over such a long period of time to younger cricketers,
[58:54.480 -> 58:57.440] to people trying to make their way in the game, because the more knowledge you get at a young age, the quicker you can grow. And are you still doing the note-making?
[58:59.840 -> 59:04.160] Annoyingly, I went for a run actually and listened to Dan Carter that you were talking to, and he said
[59:04.160 -> 59:06.460] after he moved away from rugby,
[59:06.460 -> 59:08.580] he had a moment like two, three months later,
[59:08.580 -> 59:10.500] he was like, I've not written a journal,
[59:10.500 -> 59:12.220] I've not done the things I was doing
[59:12.220 -> 59:13.560] that made me successful in rugby.
[59:13.560 -> 59:16.820] And I was actually running, I think it was last Saturday.
[59:16.820 -> 59:20.020] And he said it and I stopped, I was like, I haven't,
[59:20.020 -> 59:23.740] I've not written anything down since the Oval finished.
[59:23.740 -> 59:26.040] It's almost like I signed away from cricket
[59:26.040 -> 59:28.440] and I thought, oh, I'll sign away from my mental habits.
[59:28.440 -> 59:31.320] Well, actually, that was a great realization for me
[59:31.320 -> 59:33.320] because I didn't write necessarily just about cricket.
[59:33.320 -> 59:36.600] I wrote about feelings, thoughts, what I'm grateful for.
[59:36.600 -> 59:39.380] So why have I stopped since I've moved away from cricket?
[59:39.380 -> 59:42.480] So that was a great moment for me
[59:42.480 -> 59:43.880] in the fact that, you know,
[59:43.880 -> 59:46.960] why would I not spare five minutes a day
[59:46.960 -> 59:49.640] to just continue the mindset that served me so well
[59:49.640 -> 59:51.080] in the pressure of cricket,
[59:51.080 -> 59:52.560] where I've moved into the pressure of life
[59:52.560 -> 59:54.720] and everything else.
[59:54.720 -> 59:56.760] So yeah, I got back to that.
[59:56.760 -> 59:57.760] Great, I love that.
[59:57.760 -> 59:58.720] Right now, before we finish,
[59:58.720 -> 01:00:00.720] I've got some of my quick fire questions
[01:00:00.720 -> 01:00:03.480] that we'll sit at the end of this podcast episode
[01:00:03.480 -> 01:00:04.480] for the audience that listen.
[01:00:04.480 -> 01:00:09.240] And the first one is, what are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you and
[01:00:09.240 -> 01:00:11.920] the people around you need to buy into?
[01:00:11.920 -> 01:00:19.360] For me, consistency in mental prep is a big one. Like I just said, three months or two
[01:00:19.360 -> 01:00:23.960] and a half months without doing that, that was a realisation for me. So that'll be something
[01:00:23.960 -> 01:00:25.960] that I will lead forward for sure.
[01:00:25.960 -> 01:00:28.480] Pushing boundaries, and that's quite a unique one,
[01:00:28.480 -> 01:00:30.040] but I think that was something
[01:00:30.040 -> 01:00:32.980] that I was really strong at in my career.
[01:00:32.980 -> 01:00:37.000] I think coaches maybe didn't always see eye to eye with me
[01:00:37.000 -> 01:00:40.920] because I'd ask why and how a little bit.
[01:00:40.920 -> 01:00:41.760] You know, they'd come and say,
[01:00:41.760 -> 01:00:43.920] right, I think we need to bowl fuller now.
[01:00:43.920 -> 01:00:45.000] I'd be like, why?
[01:00:45.000 -> 01:00:46.440] Give me some information as to why.
[01:00:46.440 -> 01:00:51.200] And that always helped me move my game forward
[01:00:51.200 -> 01:00:54.160] because I think if you're just a bit of a yes person
[01:00:54.160 -> 01:00:57.180] and you take on every bit of advice all the time
[01:00:57.180 -> 01:01:01.080] and take it as gospel, then what are you learning
[01:01:01.080 -> 01:01:01.920] for yourself?
[01:01:01.920 -> 01:01:03.040] What are you gathering for yourself
[01:01:03.040 -> 01:01:04.720] and finding what really works for you?
[01:01:04.720 -> 01:01:08.840] So I will always push boundaries on seniority a little bit,
[01:01:08.840 -> 01:01:10.960] but like play devil's advocate a little bit,
[01:01:10.960 -> 01:01:12.740] you know, why should I do that?
[01:01:13.680 -> 01:01:15.240] And how is it gonna make me better
[01:01:15.240 -> 01:01:17.760] as a person and a player?
[01:01:17.760 -> 01:01:18.740] Good, that's two.
[01:01:19.640 -> 01:01:21.720] And the one I live by from Durban
[01:01:21.720 -> 01:01:23.440] was consistent improvement,
[01:01:23.440 -> 01:01:25.040] continuous improvement all the time.
[01:01:25.040 -> 01:01:27.300] And I think with that,
[01:01:27.300 -> 01:01:29.320] all of the top professionals I played with,
[01:01:29.320 -> 01:01:32.800] Joss, Stokesy, Ruti, Jimmy,
[01:01:32.800 -> 01:01:34.240] always their number one goal,
[01:01:34.240 -> 01:01:35.480] always their non-negotiable.
[01:01:35.480 -> 01:01:37.920] They're looking for something in the game,
[01:01:37.920 -> 01:01:41.240] in their preparation, in their physicality,
[01:01:41.240 -> 01:01:43.920] within the change room that can improve them.
[01:01:43.920 -> 01:01:46.400] And I didn't do that for
[01:01:46.960 -> 01:01:48.960] Four or five months around the Durban incident
[01:01:49.720 -> 01:01:57.120] And I live by that ever since even up until what's your advice for a teenage Stuart just starting out on his journey
[01:01:58.200 -> 01:02:03.680] Yeah, I mean we touched on it a little bit with with the note-making, but I said I started at 26 ish
[01:02:04.480 -> 01:02:06.680] Dabbling and took it more seriously into my 30s,
[01:02:06.680 -> 01:02:09.400] but actually, when we talk in sport about experience,
[01:02:09.400 -> 01:02:11.760] oh, the players got better with experience
[01:02:11.760 -> 01:02:14.680] and the teams better with the experience in there.
[01:02:14.680 -> 01:02:15.800] How could you grow that quicker?
[01:02:15.800 -> 01:02:17.400] How can you grow the experience quicker?
[01:02:17.400 -> 01:02:21.880] And I think if I had my time again at 15, 16,
[01:02:21.880 -> 01:02:24.920] I'd start writing, only, you know, it takes five minutes
[01:02:24.920 -> 01:02:25.500] to write, you know, 16, I'd start writing, only, you know, it takes five minutes to write,
[01:02:25.500 -> 01:02:28.540] you know, thoughts, grateful, feelings,
[01:02:28.540 -> 01:02:30.900] just, I start writing them down then,
[01:02:30.900 -> 01:02:33.320] and I would have probably learned
[01:02:33.320 -> 01:02:35.520] how to express my feelings better.
[01:02:35.520 -> 01:02:37.880] I would have learned where the consistencies
[01:02:37.880 -> 01:02:40.960] in my mindset lay and what really spurred me on.
[01:02:40.960 -> 01:02:44.440] So I did learn later that it was external things
[01:02:44.440 -> 01:02:47.360] that got me going, crowds and crowds and you know feeding off energy of
[01:02:47.360 -> 01:02:54.480] Teammates at the start. I didn't really realize that I probably you know enjoyed the crowd but didn't engage with the crowd that much
[01:02:54.800 -> 01:02:57.140] so I would I would definitely tell a
[01:02:57.760 -> 01:02:59.760] 15-year-old Stewart to
[01:02:59.960 -> 01:03:06.440] To write more to make a little journal, so I've got something to look back on and learn from.
[01:03:06.440 -> 01:03:08.440] Nice. What is your biggest strength?
[01:03:08.440 -> 01:03:10.440] What is your greatest weakness?
[01:03:10.440 -> 01:03:12.440] Can that be the same?
[01:03:12.440 -> 01:03:13.440] Yes.
[01:03:13.440 -> 01:03:15.440] Has anyone ever said it's the same before?
[01:03:15.440 -> 01:03:17.440] Yes.
[01:03:17.440 -> 01:03:19.440] I'm stubborn.
[01:03:19.440 -> 01:03:20.440] Right.
[01:03:20.440 -> 01:03:22.440] Really stubborn.
[01:03:22.440 -> 01:03:27.700] Which is a great strength, so that single minus, I will get this job done. I will do it
[01:03:27.700 -> 01:03:29.700] You know, I will not let you down
[01:03:30.840 -> 01:03:32.840] Set me a challenge and it will get done
[01:03:33.520 -> 01:03:35.520] but it also a
[01:03:36.040 -> 01:03:38.600] weakness of mine and why coaches have probably
[01:03:39.120 -> 01:03:44.340] Found me niggly at times is takes a lot of convincing for me to change like that
[01:03:44.340 -> 01:03:45.440] Do you know what I mean?
[01:03:45.440 -> 01:03:50.360] I need the information, I need data, facts, whatever.
[01:03:50.360 -> 01:03:52.960] I'm not just going to be an emotional changer of something.
[01:03:52.960 -> 01:03:57.440] If I think it's the right thing for me and someone else doesn't agree with that, it can
[01:03:57.440 -> 01:03:58.760] be a bit like that.
[01:03:58.760 -> 01:04:00.360] But I've got better with age on that.
[01:04:00.360 -> 01:04:01.840] I think I was worse in my 20s.
[01:04:01.840 -> 01:04:03.400] I was like, no, don't need that.
[01:04:03.400 -> 01:04:07.000] I've got this, I've got that. So stubbornness is a great strength,
[01:04:07.000 -> 01:04:12.000] but definitely has been a pretty decent weakness.
[01:04:12.000 -> 01:04:14.000] How important is legacy to you?
[01:04:14.000 -> 01:04:18.000] One thing that rang really true,
[01:04:18.000 -> 01:04:20.000] the All Blacks legacy of leaving that shirt in a better place,
[01:04:20.000 -> 01:04:22.000] a really good, really good thing.
[01:04:22.000 -> 01:04:26.080] That definitely sat with me a lot of the time.
[01:04:26.080 -> 01:04:28.320] And ultimately when I did move away from the game,
[01:04:28.320 -> 01:04:31.660] I could hang that shirt up in my spot and go,
[01:04:31.660 -> 01:04:33.760] you know, I've played a little part in that shirt
[01:04:33.760 -> 01:04:35.160] being in a better place,
[01:04:35.160 -> 01:04:36.880] not just through individual performances,
[01:04:36.880 -> 01:04:38.760] but also the last 15 months of leading
[01:04:38.760 -> 01:04:40.720] what BADS wanted to get across.
[01:04:40.720 -> 01:04:43.640] And I think legacy changes with every personnel
[01:04:43.640 -> 01:04:46.920] and every style of coach and group.
[01:04:46.920 -> 01:04:49.400] But I feel proud that there's, you know,
[01:04:49.400 -> 01:04:53.440] the baseball legacy, I've played a part in starting that,
[01:04:53.440 -> 01:04:55.520] you know, hard to deny it is a legacy
[01:04:55.520 -> 01:04:57.120] if it's in the dictionary, you know what I mean?
[01:04:57.120 -> 01:04:57.960] There you go.
[01:04:57.960 -> 01:04:59.480] It's set there forever.
[01:04:59.480 -> 01:05:01.040] And the final question,
[01:05:01.040 -> 01:05:04.080] your one golden rule that you'd like to leave people with
[01:05:04.080 -> 01:05:06.720] for living a high performance life.
[01:05:06.720 -> 01:05:08.000] Ooh, golden rule.
[01:05:09.320 -> 01:05:11.320] Challenge your limitations,
[01:05:11.320 -> 01:05:13.760] but learn and stick by your strengths, I'd say.
[01:05:14.800 -> 01:05:17.600] Be aware of what doesn't work for you
[01:05:17.600 -> 01:05:19.120] and work on getting better at them.
[01:05:19.120 -> 01:05:22.540] But also, if you've got strengths that you know work for you,
[01:05:22.540 -> 01:05:24.360] stick by them and stick true to them.
[01:05:24.360 -> 01:05:26.080] Brilliant. Listen, thank you so much for that.
[01:05:26.080 -> 01:05:27.760] I think, you know, we've all watched from the outside
[01:05:27.760 -> 01:05:29.720] and just gone, what a talented guy,
[01:05:29.720 -> 01:05:31.760] taking wickets and playing amazingly for England.
[01:05:31.760 -> 01:05:33.880] So to sit here and get, you know,
[01:05:33.880 -> 01:05:37.560] full in-depth answers into how you changed,
[01:05:37.560 -> 01:05:39.760] how you adapted, how you worked on your mindset,
[01:05:39.760 -> 01:05:42.120] the culture of the England team under Brendan
[01:05:42.120 -> 01:05:44.360] and everything else is so fascinating for all of us.
[01:05:44.360 -> 01:05:48.600] So for now, ladies and gentlemen, please thank the incredible Stuart Broad.
[01:05:53.800 -> 01:05:58.800] So that's it then. I told you it was a really fascinating insight into the kind of guy that Stuart is
[01:05:58.800 -> 01:06:02.000] and the things that he's done to get to where he got to in his career.
[01:06:02.000 -> 01:06:06.680] And I think a reminder that you can't just stumble through.
[01:06:06.680 -> 01:06:09.160] I love the fact that, you know, he was in his mid-twenties
[01:06:09.160 -> 01:06:12.160] when he realized that he couldn't just stumble through.
[01:06:12.160 -> 01:06:15.480] And if you're thinking about a change of pace in your life,
[01:06:15.480 -> 01:06:17.080] then maybe this is the conversation
[01:06:17.080 -> 01:06:19.960] that might just give you that impetus
[01:06:19.960 -> 01:06:21.960] and that drive that you need
[01:06:21.960 -> 01:06:24.160] to go and do whatever it is that you want.
[01:06:24.160 -> 01:06:28.120] And if you want more of these kinds of conversations, don't forget you can download the High Performance
[01:06:28.120 -> 01:06:29.120] app.
[01:06:29.120 -> 01:06:33.160] Just go to the App Store, search for High Performance, and our book, How to Change Your
[01:06:33.160 -> 01:06:35.720] Life, is available right now.
[01:06:35.720 -> 01:06:39.440] And if you're looking to change, honestly, it's a book that will guide you through the
[01:06:39.440 -> 01:06:43.720] five key steps and help you get to a place that you want to be.
[01:06:43.720 -> 01:06:47.120] Thank you so much once again for listening and sharing the lessons you're taking from
[01:06:47.120 -> 01:06:53.640] these conversations. Remember to remain humble, curious and keep on searching for your own
[01:06:53.640 -> 01:07:20.680] version of high performance. Thanks for listening. to the next!
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