Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 13 Nov 2023 01:00:46 GMT
Duration:
58:36
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
In this enlightening conversation, Sarina Wiegman offers a profound perspective on what it means to be a successful coach, leader, and advocate for women in football.
This conversation was recorded at a sold out High Performance event in Sarina’s only UK appearance.
Sarina Wiegman is the coach that took the Lionesses to victory at Euro 2020. During this conversation, Sarina takes Jake and Damian through her career and the biggest lessons she has learnt along the way. From cutting her hair off at six years old so she could play football with the boys, to coaching a Euros winning team. They discuss what good leadership looks like and how personal connection with players and mutual understanding is top priority. Sarina offers her one key piece of advice to coaches, parents and leaders.
She delves into the plan she made for the Lionesses that shaped them into a winning team, whilst focusing on her key values; respect, growth and clarity. Not only do they discuss Sarina’s career in football, Jake and Damian also explore the greatest lessons from her personal life, including the benefits of silence and meditation, and her relationship with grief after the loss of her sister.
Sarina’s focus on people and her ability to connect and empower others serve as powerful lessons for anyone seeking to excel in their field and create positive change.
Listen to the exclusive live audience Q&A with Sarina only on the High Performance App! Download The High Performance App by clicking the link below and using the code: HPAPP https://www.thehighperformancepodcast.com/app-link
Find Sarina’s book ‘What It Takes: My Playbook on Life and Leadership’ here:
https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/what-it-takes-sarina-wiegman/7579177
This interview was recorded in front of a live audience.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
**Navigating the World of High-Performance Coaching: A Conversation with Sarina Wiegman**
In this captivating conversation, Serena Wiegman, the head coach of the Lionesses, offers a profound perspective on what it takes to be a successful coach, leader, and advocate for women in football. Recorded in front of a sold-out audience in London, Wiegman engages in a thought-provoking dialogue with Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes, delving into her career, the lessons she has learned, and the key principles that have shaped her coaching philosophy.
**Key Themes and Insights:**
* **The Essence of High Performance:** Wiegman defines high performance as performing at the highest level under the most significant pressure. She emphasizes the importance of focus, preparation, and the ability to make quick decisions in high-stakes situations.
* **The Power of Feedback:** Wiegman stresses the significance of seeking feedback to identify areas for improvement and personal growth. She highlights the role of constructive criticism in helping athletes and coaches reach their full potential.
* **Developing People, Not Just Players:** Wiegman's approach to coaching extends beyond tactics and techniques. She places a strong emphasis on developing individuals, fostering their personal growth, and creating a supportive environment where players can thrive.
* **Connecting with Players:** Wiegman believes that establishing genuine connections with players is crucial for effective coaching. She emphasizes the importance of listening, understanding, and creating a sense of trust and respect within the team.
* **Clarity and Communication:** Wiegman's coaching philosophy centers around providing clarity and effective communication to her players. She ensures that the team understands its goals, roles, and responsibilities, enabling them to perform at their best.
* **Adapting to Different Personalities:** Wiegman acknowledges that every player is unique and requires a personalized approach. She tailors her coaching style to accommodate different personalities and learning styles, recognizing that what works for one player may not work for another.
* **The Importance of Resilience:** Wiegman emphasizes the value of resilience in overcoming challenges and setbacks. She encourages her players to learn from their mistakes, embrace adversity, and maintain a positive mindset even in difficult circumstances.
* **Balancing Tactics and Emotional Intelligence:** Wiegman believes that successful coaching involves striking a balance between tactical knowledge and emotional intelligence. She highlights the importance of understanding players' emotions, motivations, and fears to create a cohesive and high-performing team.
* **Advocating for Women in Football:** Wiegman is a passionate advocate for women's football and uses her platform to inspire and empower young girls to pursue their dreams in the sport. She emphasizes the need for more opportunities, visibility, and recognition for women's football worldwide.
* **The Transformative Power of Silence and Meditation:** Wiegman shares her personal experience with silence and meditation as tools for self-reflection and emotional regulation. She highlights the benefits of these practices in helping her stay grounded, focused, and connected to her inner self.
* **Dealing with Grief and Loss:** Wiegman opens up about the loss of her sister during her coaching journey. She describes how she channeled her grief into her work, finding strength and purpose in leading her team to victory at the Euros.
* **The Legacy of Inspiration:** Wiegman reflects on the impact she hopes to leave on the world of football. She expresses her desire to inspire future generations of players and coaches, particularly young girls, to pursue their passions and make a positive difference in the sport.
**Conclusion:**
Serena Wiegman's conversation with Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes provides a wealth of insights into the world of high-performance coaching, leadership, and advocacy for women in football. Her emphasis on developing people, connecting with players, and fostering a supportive environment serves as a valuable lesson for anyone seeking to excel in their field and create a positive impact on others. Wiegman's journey and accomplishments stand as a testament to the transformative power of sports in shaping lives and inspiring change.
## **Podcast Episode Summary: A Conversation with Sarina Wiegman**
### **Key Points:**
- **Staying in the Moment:**
- Sarina Wiegman emphasizes the importance of staying in the moment and focusing on actions rather than results to enhance decision-making and reduce fatigue-induced lapses in concentration.
- Mental training, including visualization, breathing, and meditation, is crucial for developing this skill and improving overall performance.
- **Adapting to Change:**
- Wiegman highlights the significant changes in the visibility and popularity of women's football, noting that it was a different world when she was a player.
- She stresses the need for mental resilience and adaptability to navigate the increased attention and expectations that come with success.
- **Effective Communication:**
- Wiegman shares her experiences of misunderstandings due to cultural differences in communication styles, particularly in England.
- She emphasizes the importance of clear and direct communication to avoid confusion and ensure effective teamwork.
- **Building Trust and Leadership:**
- Wiegman discusses the importance of trust and honesty in building strong leadership relationships with players.
- She describes an incident where a player lost trust in leadership due to a lack of transparency and explains how she addressed the situation to rebuild trust.
- **Mary Earps' Transformation:**
- Wiegman recounts how goalkeeper Mary Earps regained her confidence and became one of the world's best after receiving support and encouragement from the coaching staff.
- **Dealing with Grief and Emotions:**
- Wiegman shares her personal experience of dealing with the grief of losing her sister during the buildup to the Euros.
- She emphasizes the importance of embracing and processing emotions, finding moments to grieve, and not suppressing or ignoring them.
- Wiegman also highlights the significance of family and health, stating that they are the most important aspects of life.
- **Advocacy for Women in Football:**
- Wiegman applauds the Lionesses players for using their platform to address societal issues and make a positive impact, particularly through their letter after the Euros.
- She acknowledges that there is still progress to be made in terms of gender equality in football and encourages women to be more assertive and confident in their decision-making.
- **Learning from the World Cup:**
- Wiegman reflects on the lessons learned from the Women's World Cup, emphasizing the rapid development of the women's game and the need for England to adapt to the increasing defensive capabilities and counter-attacking threats of other teams.
- **Maintaining Success:**
- Despite recent challenging results, Wiegman remains optimistic about the Lionesses' ability to retain the European Championship title in two years.
- She acknowledges the need to address areas for improvement, such as final pass accuracy and ruthlessness in front of goal, while maintaining a neutral mindset and focusing on the team's strengths.
- **Continuous Improvement:**
- Wiegman seeks feedback from players and staff to identify areas where she can improve as a coach.
- She believes that there is always room for growth and development, and she is committed to enhancing her skills and knowledge to help the Lionesses achieve their goals.
### **Overall Message:**
Sarina Wiegman's conversation offers valuable insights into her approach to coaching, leadership, and personal development. She emphasizes the importance of staying present, adapting to change, communicating effectively, building trust, and embracing emotions. Wiegman also highlights the need for continuous improvement and the significance of advocating for women in football. Her experiences and perspectives provide valuable lessons for anyone seeking to excel in their field and create positive change.
# Sarina Wiegman: The High-Performance Coach and Advocate for Women in Football
In a captivating conversation, Sarina Wiegman, the coach who led the Lionesses to victory at Euro 2020, shares her insights on leadership, coaching, and advocating for women in football.
**Key Points Discussed:**
- **Non-Negotiable Behaviors:** Wiegman emphasizes the significance of non-negotiable behaviors for her team, including hard work, team-first mentality, and taking action on and off the pitch.
- **Legacy and Inspiration:** Wiegman expresses her desire to inspire others, particularly girls and women, to pursue their dreams and break glass ceilings in sports and beyond.
- **Advice to Teenage Self:** She encourages young people to follow their hearts, pursue their passions, and not let anyone tell them they cannot achieve their goals.
- **Greatest Strength and Weakness:** Wiegman identifies her strength as connecting with people and her weakness as not being able to switch off and relax completely.
- **Golden Rule for High-Performance Life:** She believes commitment, perseverance, and talent are crucial for a high-performance life.
- **Impact of Serena's Leadership:** Wiegman's leadership has had a profound impact on English football, making it a better place for female players and coaches.
- **Audience Q&A:** Listeners can access an exclusive live audience Q&A with Sarina Wiegman on the High Performance App using the code HPAPP.
- **Sharing the Podcast:** Wiegman encourages listeners to share the podcast with someone who needs inspiration and can benefit from her messages.
- **Golden Rule Created by a Listener:** The podcast features a golden rule created by a listener using AI, emphasizing constant self-improvement, resilience, adaptability, respect, and unwavering dedication.
- **LinkedIn Jobs:** The episode concludes with a promotion for LinkedIn Jobs, encouraging small businesses to find qualified candidates for their teams.
**Overall Message:**
Sarina Wiegman's focus on people, her ability to connect and empower others, and her commitment to developing players and coaches serve as valuable lessons for anyone seeking to excel in their field and create positive change.
[00:00.000 -> 00:04.800] Before we start today's podcast with Serena, this was recorded in front of a live audience
[00:04.800 -> 00:09.520] in central London and at the end of the conversation, people got the chance to quiz her and there
[00:09.520 -> 00:12.560] were some amazing questions and some brilliant answers.
[00:12.560 -> 00:15.920] If you want to hear that, it's exclusively on the High Performance app, which you can
[00:15.920 -> 00:18.060] download for free right now.
[00:18.060 -> 00:25.000] Go to the app store, download High Performance and use the code HPAPP for access.
[00:25.000 -> 00:28.000] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance,
[00:28.000 -> 00:33.000] the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet.
[00:33.000 -> 00:37.000] I'm Jay Comfrey, and alongside Professor Damien Hughes,
[00:37.000 -> 00:40.000] we learn from the stories, the successes, and the struggles of our guests,
[00:40.000 -> 00:45.800] allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow.
[00:46.840 -> 00:47.680] Here's what's coming up.
[00:50.080 -> 00:53.800] The fundament of this team was there already. If you make the semi-final three times in a row, then
[00:53.920 -> 00:55.640] they've done a really good job.
[00:56.120 -> 01:00.080] So when we came in, I just thought, okay, what's going really well.
[01:00.280 -> 01:02.400] And what can we add to make the next step?
[01:02.920 -> 01:06.600] My sister got diagnosed cancer right before the Olympics.
[01:06.600 -> 01:09.600] So before the tournament, we knew she was going to pass away
[01:09.600 -> 01:12.000] because she went really downhill.
[01:12.000 -> 01:15.200] But at that moment that you become European champion,
[01:15.200 -> 01:17.200] it's so emotional. I didn't even know I was doing that.
[01:17.200 -> 01:21.600] You don't even, you're not even aware anymore that I felt so connected with her.
[01:21.600 -> 01:24.000] That was just a really nice moment.
[01:24.000 -> 01:26.160] That's one of the most incredible
[01:26.160 -> 01:35.280] sports moments of my life. So that noise, I will never forget that noise. I told you, you were there.
[01:40.720 -> 01:47.720] So welcome along to our conversation with the head coach of the Lionesses, Serena Vigeman.
[01:47.720 -> 01:52.880] Not only a conversation with Serena, but a conversation in front of 800 people in a packed
[01:52.880 -> 01:59.240] venue in central London. So for the last couple of years, we have had so many people messaging
[01:59.240 -> 02:06.160] us telling us who they'd like to hear on high performance and Serena is regularly the most requested name.
[02:06.160 -> 02:10.020] People are fascinated by how she came into English football and turned England from a
[02:10.020 -> 02:15.520] nation that gets close but doesn't quite win things to a nation that does win things. And
[02:15.520 -> 02:19.580] in this conversation, we're going to find out how she's done that. Look, we know that
[02:19.580 -> 02:23.760] she's won two Euros with the Dutch and with England. We know she's made it to two World
[02:23.760 -> 02:27.120] Cup finals. Those are the things that she's done.
[02:27.120 -> 02:29.920] What we dive into with Serena is how she's done it.
[02:29.920 -> 02:31.320] And this is so rare.
[02:31.320 -> 02:32.880] You know, Serena protects herself.
[02:32.880 -> 02:34.000] She doesn't do a lot of media.
[02:34.000 -> 02:36.520] She isn't especially comfortable putting herself
[02:36.520 -> 02:37.760] in the limelight.
[02:37.760 -> 02:40.520] But on this occasion, she decided to do that.
[02:40.520 -> 02:43.460] And we are so proud that she chose high performance
[02:43.460 -> 02:45.160] as the only place to do a live
[02:45.160 -> 02:49.680] show this year and it's time for you to hear that conversation. I think you're going to
[02:49.680 -> 02:59.880] love this as we welcome the head coach of the Lionesses, Serena Vigman, to High Performance.
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[03:35.940 -> 03:41.100] So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
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[05:44.000 -> 05:49.360] Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together for the incredible Serena Biesman.
[05:55.720 -> 05:56.040] Hi.
[05:56.640 -> 05:57.720] I think they're pleased to see you.
[05:58.040 -> 05:58.280] Yeah.
[05:58.640 -> 05:59.200] Thank you.
[05:59.880 -> 06:01.000] It's a little overwhelming.
[06:02.120 -> 06:04.840] Look, there's lots of young ladies in the audience this evening.
[06:04.880 -> 06:05.040] Damian and myself both have daughters. It's a little overwhelming. Look, there's lots of young ladies in the audience this evening.
[06:07.360 -> 06:07.560] Damian and myself both have daughters.
[06:12.280 -> 06:12.480] We've got some inspirational female athletes in the crowd as well tonight.
[06:15.960 -> 06:16.160] Are you aware when you're doing these incredible things, Serena,
[06:19.960 -> 06:20.160] that you are breaking down doors for people to walk through in the future?
[06:21.840 -> 06:22.040] I don't think I'm aware enough.
[06:25.960 -> 06:26.080] Like moments like this, I'm like, wow, what have we done.
[06:33.440 -> 06:33.560] But you just keep going. So you play a tournament, it had been successful twice, four times actually,
[06:40.920 -> 06:41.040] and then with the Netherlands and then with England, and then just within three weeks you have next measures to come up,
[06:44.320 -> 06:44.440] so you just try to relax a little bit and then you move on.
[06:48.640 -> 06:48.840] OK, well, as you know, we're recording tonight for the High Performance Podcast.
[06:53.920 -> 06:54.120] So the first question always is, what does high performance represent to you?
[06:56.000 -> 06:56.200] Yeah, that's quite simple.
[06:58.120 -> 07:01.240] It's performing at the highest level, at your highest level, at our highest level, under the highest pressure.
[07:01.440 -> 07:03.240] And there's so much more around that.
[07:03.440 -> 07:05.120] But that's basically what it is.
[07:11.200 -> 07:16.080] And focus is vital as well. We've read your book, excellent book, and you talk so often in the book about focus. When was the first time that you remember focusing on football and thinking that
[07:16.080 -> 07:22.720] actually that could be a real route for you? Yeah, the first time I really thought, okay,
[07:22.720 -> 07:29.900] this could be something. When I played in the Netherlands, football, of course, when I started, it was not allowed.
[07:29.900 -> 07:37.540] But at the age of 12, 13, the Dutch FA started a selection group from under 14, and I got
[07:37.540 -> 07:39.680] selected for that.
[07:39.680 -> 07:41.540] And that was so cool.
[07:41.540 -> 07:44.300] Like it was just a regional thing, but I thought, oh, this is what I want.
[07:44.300 -> 07:45.960] This is so cool. Like it was just a regional thing, but I thought, oh, this is what I want. This is really cool.
[07:46.640 -> 07:50.160] And you tell the story in the book about having to cut your hair at a young age
[07:50.160 -> 07:53.080] as well, Serena, would you tell us about that?
[07:53.080 -> 07:57.120] Yeah, we were not allowed to play football as a girl and I wanted to play football.
[07:57.360 -> 08:00.200] So I thought when I cut my hair, I look like a boy and I can play.
[08:00.520 -> 08:01.800] And my parents thought it was really nice.
[08:01.800 -> 08:03.880] My twin brother was going to play.
[08:03.880 -> 08:09.000] I think he came with me at that time to play football. And yeah, and my parents never it was really nice, my twin brother was going to play, I think he came with me at that time to play football and my parents never made a problem,
[08:09.000 -> 08:12.000] you just do what you like and that's what I did.
[08:12.000 -> 08:18.000] And one of the themes that keeps coming through again in your book is your openness to feedback,
[08:18.000 -> 08:22.000] the willingness to seek feedback and then to act on it and do something about it.
[08:22.000 -> 08:26.000] Would you tell us a little bit more about the importance of that?
[08:26.200 -> 08:32.680] Yeah, I think if you want to grow, if you want to develop, you need to be critical
[08:32.880 -> 08:37.360] and you also always have to look at the things or review the things that are going
[08:37.360 -> 08:40.640] really well and the things that go really well, you want to make even better
[08:40.640 -> 08:44.160] because those are your strengths and it's really nice to know your strengths.
[08:44.360 -> 08:48.280] But also the things that are not going very well, you want to improve and if no one tells
[08:48.280 -> 08:52.420] you and you're not aware of that, how are you going to grow? So you have to, someone
[08:52.420 -> 08:57.520] has to tell you if you're not aware of it yourself. And of course, in the beginning
[08:57.520 -> 09:01.560] when you don't have that much confidence and you're still finding your way when someone's
[09:01.560 -> 09:07.840] critical it's really hard to take. But the more experience you get, the better you become, the more confidence you get.
[09:08.040 -> 09:11.760] You think, OK, I'm already good, but if I can do that better,
[09:11.960 -> 09:14.960] that makes me even a better player or a better coach.
[09:15.160 -> 09:19.560] So have you got any examples of when you were a player yourself of receiving some
[09:19.760 -> 09:23.760] incredible feedback that made a significant difference to you?
[09:23.960 -> 09:27.800] Yeah, when I played, we didn't do video analysis,
[09:28.080 -> 09:30.200] so I never watched myself back.
[09:30.320 -> 09:34.840] And I think that now is really good because you just you see the facts
[09:34.840 -> 09:38.240] and you still can discuss about decision making, because football's a game
[09:38.240 -> 09:41.080] where the ball's always open, so you can make different decisions.
[09:41.080 -> 09:44.080] But you want to make the best decision in possession, out of possession.
[09:44.120 -> 09:45.560] It's very technical.
[09:45.560 -> 09:53.380] But like I had a coach when I was with the national team, he's actually now the coach
[09:53.380 -> 09:54.480] of the Dutch national team.
[09:54.480 -> 09:55.920] He coached me too.
[09:55.920 -> 10:07.840] And he just, at that time I was coming from midfield to as a defense, and he just taught me a couple of things like passing, the moment of passing
[10:07.840 -> 10:15.440] and that helped me a lot. So yeah, we had the discussion, well that pass is way too
[10:15.440 -> 10:20.320] far and I can't get it. He said yeah, you can get it. So it's a little bit giving feedback
[10:20.320 -> 10:25.000] but also giving me the trust that I could do it. So that really helped me at that point.
[10:25.000 -> 10:30.000] And at some point in your life, things changed from you wanting to be a footballer
[10:30.000 -> 10:32.000] to you wanting to develop footballers.
[10:32.000 -> 10:37.000] And one thing I really loved about the book is your constant references to developing people.
[10:37.000 -> 10:40.000] You know, you talk actually far more in the book about people
[10:40.000 -> 10:43.000] than you do about results and football and tactics.
[10:43.000 -> 10:49.840] So where did this develop then, this desire to help other people be the very best that they can be?
[10:49.840 -> 10:55.000] I just really, I want to develop myself all the time too. And this is something part of
[10:55.000 -> 11:00.240] me. When I was in elementary school, I already knew I was, I wanted to be a PE teacher. I
[11:00.240 -> 11:05.920] wanted to work with people and I wanted to be in sports. And when I was seven, eight years old,
[11:05.920 -> 11:07.600] there was no women coaches.
[11:07.600 -> 11:09.400] There were no female footballers
[11:09.400 -> 11:10.280] or professional footballers.
[11:10.280 -> 11:14.200] So what we always say, what you see you can be.
[11:14.200 -> 11:17.280] I could not be a coach, so I wanted to be a PE teacher.
[11:17.280 -> 11:19.120] So that has always been part of me.
[11:19.120 -> 11:20.720] And I was always looking
[11:20.720 -> 11:24.160] and searching for improvement and growth.
[11:24.160 -> 11:26.600] And that's, yeah, that gives me energy.
[11:26.600 -> 11:28.360] I want to really want to win.
[11:28.360 -> 11:30.160] I really want to win.
[11:30.160 -> 11:34.080] But it brings back to what do you have to do to win?
[11:34.080 -> 11:37.080] And if I can have a little contribution to people,
[11:37.080 -> 11:38.440] like even with staff members,
[11:38.440 -> 11:40.960] also with players with developing in their game
[11:40.960 -> 11:45.120] or as a person, that really gives me energy.
[11:45.320 -> 11:48.280] So we get a lot of teachers that listen to the podcast, Serena.
[11:48.480 -> 11:52.160] So what skills did you learn when you were working in the teaching
[11:52.360 -> 11:57.120] profession that people would still recognize that you employ today as the head coach?
[11:57.320 -> 12:01.560] Yeah, I think I think the education in the Netherlands takes four years,
[12:01.760 -> 12:07.360] the PE education, I think that has been really crucial for my development as a coach, like my experience
[12:07.360 -> 12:13.800] as a player, having played in the US also, and played in the Netherlands, and the PE
[12:13.800 -> 12:20.480] education, you learn about people, you learn about physiology, you learn about psychology,
[12:20.480 -> 12:22.920] you learn how to teach.
[12:22.920 -> 12:25.800] So organizing, I think PE teachers, a lot of them here,
[12:26.000 -> 12:29.920] I think we can really good organize a lesson, I think.
[12:30.120 -> 12:34.600] So that's, you know, your structure, methodology also.
[12:34.800 -> 12:38.120] So, you know, how you structure coaching,
[12:38.320 -> 12:43.760] like training sessions that really relates to how you teach, how you do a lesson,
[12:43.960 -> 12:45.160] a PE lesson. So that really relates to how you teach, how you do a lesson, a PE lesson.
[12:45.360 -> 12:46.680] So that really helped me.
[12:46.880 -> 12:50.320] But all the things around it about learning about the brains,
[12:50.520 -> 12:54.760] learning about team dynamics, things like that, I'm really interested in that, too.
[12:54.960 -> 12:58.480] Well, let's talk about that then, because the job really of a head coach or
[12:58.680 -> 13:02.320] indeed a teacher is to get to people's hearts, not to people's heads.
[13:02.320 -> 13:02.920] Right.
[13:03.120 -> 13:06.160] So what would you share maybe with the teachers in the room
[13:06.280 -> 13:09.240] or the business leaders in the room or the parents in the room
[13:09.360 -> 13:13.000] about how we can get to people's hearts, not just their heads?
[13:13.120 -> 13:17.440] Talk and listen. First, listen, but when you want people to talk,
[13:17.560 -> 13:20.520] you have to ask a question. Otherwise, people won't talk.
[13:20.640 -> 13:27.280] I think that's a big learning lesson. Like every human being is unique and how people
[13:27.280 -> 13:33.120] learn things is different. They learn in different ways too. So what you're trying to do if you want,
[13:33.120 -> 13:39.760] like in my environment, you want to talk to a place and first connect. Because I truly believe
[13:39.760 -> 13:46.660] when you connect with people you understand better and then you can support them better too. You can help them better in their development.
[13:46.660 -> 13:48.440] How do you connect?
[13:48.440 -> 13:49.700] To get to know each other
[13:49.700 -> 13:52.860] and that's you have to share stories with each other
[13:52.860 -> 13:56.520] and you have to talk to each other and listen to each other.
[13:56.520 -> 13:58.180] And then when you connect,
[13:58.180 -> 14:01.020] when you do that and you get to know each other better,
[14:01.020 -> 14:03.280] then you understand each other better too.
[14:03.280 -> 14:05.800] And when you do that and you know what your purpose is, then you understand each other better too. And when you do that and you know what
[14:05.800 -> 14:09.740] your purpose is, then you can give constructive feedback too, because we all know where we
[14:09.740 -> 14:14.200] want to go to and then they will accept it, I think. That's what I believe in.
[14:14.200 -> 14:19.540] How do you balance up that with getting your message across? Because we've had the amazing
[14:19.540 -> 14:23.000] Jill Scott on the High Performance Podcast and we actually said to her, go on, what's
[14:23.000 -> 14:25.600] your first memory of meeting Serena?
[14:25.600 -> 14:28.000] And she said, well, normally when you meet someone,
[14:28.000 -> 14:29.800] there's a few jokes for a few minutes,
[14:29.800 -> 14:32.200] and you have a bit of a laugh and soften each other up,
[14:32.200 -> 14:34.800] and then they might say, by the way, this is what I expect.
[14:34.800 -> 14:39.000] And she said, Serena came in and went, this is what I expect.
[14:39.000 -> 14:42.000] And Jill was like, where were the jokes?
[14:44.000 -> 14:47.600] So I think this is an interesting conversation to have, where you're like,
[14:47.600 -> 14:51.560] well, you need to get to know people, but you also obviously need to get your
[14:51.760 -> 14:54.680] message across and you seem to do it quickly and directly.
[14:54.880 -> 14:57.000] Yeah, they tell me I'm really direct.
[14:57.200 -> 14:59.120] And it seems to be that.
[14:59.320 -> 15:03.800] Now, look, when I came in in September 21, I met the team.
[15:03.800 -> 15:07.400] Of course, I knew the team because I'd followed them and we played them several times.
[15:07.840 -> 15:11.880] And we met at Monday and we had our first game on Friday.
[15:12.480 -> 15:15.600] So I first needed to give some clarity what the week would look like.
[15:15.600 -> 15:18.920] So I came in and said, well, this is my philosophy of coaching.
[15:18.920 -> 15:21.480] This is who I am. I showed a picture of my family, too.
[15:21.800 -> 15:24.280] So I shared some private things.
[15:24.760 -> 15:26.920] And I said, well, this is the structure of the week.
[15:26.920 -> 15:28.720] So we have meetings there
[15:28.720 -> 15:30.080] and I tried to keep it really simple,
[15:30.080 -> 15:33.360] but it had to be very clear what the week looked like,
[15:33.360 -> 15:35.720] what my philosophy was,
[15:35.720 -> 15:38.240] like we're not really going into detail
[15:38.240 -> 15:40.900] because that came all over across the week,
[15:40.900 -> 15:43.580] but that had to be clear because we had to play on Friday.
[15:43.580 -> 15:48.360] And then over that first week, we had individual conversations with players.
[15:48.360 -> 15:49.600] Arjen and I did that.
[15:49.600 -> 15:53.800] My assistant coach who came with me is also from the Netherlands.
[15:54.200 -> 15:59.760] And then we started to ask the questions, you know, what made this team so good
[16:00.320 -> 16:04.240] and what do we need to do to make this team even better and get to the next stage?
[16:04.600 -> 16:10.000] And then we saw, you know, more personal questions which they wanted to share or not, that's up to them.
[16:10.000 -> 16:13.000] There's loads for us to pick out there, just one quick one.
[16:13.000 -> 16:17.000] And I hope you don't mind being personal just for a moment.
[16:17.000 -> 16:19.000] Like you said, you told them about you.
[16:19.000 -> 16:24.000] What did you choose to tell the Lionesses the first time you met them about you?
[16:24.000 -> 16:25.840] And why did you choose to tell them what you told them?
[16:25.840 -> 16:29.840] I found it important to tell them what my values were.
[16:29.840 -> 16:30.840] What were they?
[16:30.840 -> 16:36.040] My values are respect. I always tried to treat everyone with respect.
[16:36.040 -> 16:39.600] Growth, development and clarity.
[16:39.600 -> 16:41.600] So I gave clarity right away.
[16:41.600 -> 16:45.160] This is how we're going to do it. And I didn't say This is how we're gonna do it.
[16:45.240 -> 16:47.520] And I didn't say, this is how we're going to play and things,
[16:47.600 -> 16:49.320] we tried to figure out how they had...
[16:49.400 -> 16:51.240] And of course I'd seen that too.
[16:51.320 -> 16:54.400] So, like, the fundament of this team was there already.
[16:54.480 -> 16:57.520] If you make the semi-final three times in a row,
[16:57.600 -> 17:00.360] then they have done a really good job.
[17:00.440 -> 17:04.520] So when we came in, I just thought, OK, what's going really well
[17:04.600 -> 17:07.120] and what can we add to make the next step?
[17:07.320 -> 17:08.800] Because there was already a big fundament.
[17:09.000 -> 17:13.240] Talking about Jill, so coming back on that, it's a nice story.
[17:13.440 -> 17:17.360] So what we did to try to connect, like Jill is probably like,
[17:17.560 -> 17:21.240] the lightness is there, incredible, and they are unique and different
[17:21.440 -> 17:27.520] personalities, and I'm really so proud of them, what they do on the pitch, but also how they change
[17:27.720 -> 17:32.600] the society in a positive way. But Jill is just the most special person I've ever met.
[17:32.800 -> 17:35.800] Like, it's just incredible how she does everything now, too.
[17:35.800 -> 17:37.760] She's all over the place, all over the world.
[17:37.960 -> 17:40.000] And she's always smiling.
[17:40.200 -> 17:43.200] So a couple of camps, then we wanted to connect.
[17:43.400 -> 17:46.440] So what we did, we paired players and staff,
[17:46.440 -> 17:51.520] and we gave them a task to talk about themselves and get connected,
[17:51.520 -> 17:54.800] and I mixed up with Jill.
[17:54.800 -> 17:57.600] So we went out for a walk at St. George's Park,
[17:57.600 -> 17:59.520] and she said that she felt a little uncomfortable.
[17:59.520 -> 18:00.840] I thought, Jill, uncomfortable,
[18:00.840 -> 18:02.960] I've never ever seen her uncomfortable.
[18:02.960 -> 18:04.880] Then we said, then it fell apart,
[18:04.880 -> 18:06.000] and we really had very nice conversations
[18:06.200 -> 18:09.000] and got really connected and talked all about personal stuff.
[18:09.200 -> 18:12.000] Lovely. And I'm interested in the answer you got back, Serena,
[18:12.200 -> 18:15.600] to those two questions when you went into the lionesses of
[18:15.800 -> 18:18.200] what did they regard they were already doing well
[18:18.400 -> 18:20.800] and what were the key things they felt they could do better?
[18:21.000 -> 18:27.920] Yeah, I haven't asked them if I can share that with the world, so I'll be a little general.
[18:27.920 -> 18:28.920] They said at...
[18:28.920 -> 18:30.560] They're not going to tell you off though, are they?
[18:30.560 -> 18:31.560] No, I know.
[18:31.560 -> 18:34.560] You're literally the boss.
[18:34.560 -> 18:43.240] Yeah, well, they said under the highest pressure, they sometimes didn't stick to the plan, because
[18:43.240 -> 18:45.680] they were trying really hard, but started doing their own thing
[18:45.680 -> 18:48.000] and didn't support them good enough.
[18:48.240 -> 18:50.560] So what we really, and we saw that too.
[18:52.160 -> 18:53.880] So, yes, everyone works so hard,
[18:53.880 -> 18:54.960] but you have to stick with the plan
[18:54.960 -> 18:56.640] because then you become accountable.
[18:57.080 -> 18:58.560] So that's mainly what they said.
[18:58.560 -> 18:59.720] And what brought them so far
[18:59.720 -> 19:01.320] is that we have enough quality.
[19:01.320 -> 19:03.080] We have so many good players.
[19:03.800 -> 19:05.520] We just need to take the next step.
[19:05.520 -> 19:10.600] So they say to you when it really matters, we don't quite manage to get there.
[19:10.800 -> 19:12.960] What's your job then with that information?
[19:13.280 -> 19:15.680] I'm really interested how you process that message.
[19:16.200 -> 19:19.200] And then along with Arjen, work out how do we solve the problem?
[19:19.200 -> 19:23.440] Yeah. And not only with Arjen, with the whole staff, basically technical staff.
[19:23.960 -> 19:26.520] So, yes, we asked these questions.
[19:26.520 -> 19:29.120] We made a summary of that and gave it back to the team and said,
[19:29.120 -> 19:33.840] oh, this is what we got out of the individual conversations.
[19:34.400 -> 19:38.040] And there were also a couple of things that they wanted, some more clarity
[19:38.440 -> 19:41.120] about how we're going to play.
[19:41.120 -> 19:45.400] So then you come to a moment, they say, OK, who are we?
[19:45.920 -> 19:48.840] Why are we together? Of course, it's the best players of the country
[19:48.840 -> 19:50.960] that come together and we want to win.
[19:50.960 -> 19:55.200] Then you have to give clarity on how we want to play, how we can win
[19:55.640 -> 19:59.160] and what behaviors are part of that winning environment.
[19:59.800 -> 20:02.600] So that's what you're working on all the time, clarity on so many things
[20:02.600 -> 20:08.360] and how we treat each other, how we want to play, what's expected in training sessions.
[20:08.360 -> 20:11.460] So that's a big story around that.
[20:11.460 -> 20:17.300] So what were the behaviours that the team identified they wanted to embody?
[20:17.300 -> 20:18.680] Keep doing the things together.
[20:18.680 -> 20:24.220] Well, then from the feedback we get, we said, okay, when we have a plan, we have to stick
[20:24.220 -> 20:25.240] to the plan.
[20:30.600 -> 20:31.320] But within that plan, so the style of play, so you also have to feel
[20:34.440 -> 20:34.760] the freedom to make your own decisions on the pitch.
[20:37.520 -> 20:39.280] So what we just said, football is the ball's always open. So it's all about decision making.
[20:39.280 -> 20:42.560] But in our principles of play, we know how we want to attack.
[20:42.560 -> 20:48.360] We know how we want to defend and what we want to do in transition moments and then when you do your task really well
[20:48.360 -> 20:51.600] you become very accountable and that's what we speak about all the time but
[20:51.600 -> 20:56.280] you're always also allowed to make mistakes because football and life is
[20:56.280 -> 21:00.120] absolutely making mistakes. If you never make a mistake you're not developing
[21:00.120 -> 21:02.040] because then you don't take action.
[21:02.040 -> 21:04.320] Well there's a brilliant bit in your book where one of
[21:04.320 -> 21:06.480] your players describes
[21:06.480 -> 21:09.920] almost like that light bulb moment when you came in and said,
[21:09.920 -> 21:12.400] you can make mistakes here, you're okay to do that.
[21:12.400 -> 21:14.080] Would you tell us about that incident?
[21:14.080 -> 21:21.040] Yeah, when we came in, I noticed that some players in training,
[21:21.040 -> 21:23.760] things went well, but then we played the game and I thought,
[21:23.760 -> 21:25.280] they don't take action.
[21:25.280 -> 21:28.160] They just pass the ball to another, so you make that decision.
[21:28.160 -> 21:30.280] I thought, we're so much better than this.
[21:30.280 -> 21:33.320] So I just encouraged them to take action.
[21:33.320 -> 21:36.760] And when you take action, you can do something extraordinary
[21:36.760 -> 21:38.640] and you can make a mistake.
[21:38.640 -> 21:43.080] But at least you can learn from those things and you show who you are, too.
[21:43.080 -> 21:45.000] So you have to take action.
[21:45.200 -> 21:49.200] And if you make the same mistake five times in a row, then we have a problem
[21:49.200 -> 21:50.360] and the player has a problem too.
[21:50.560 -> 21:52.800] So you do have to learn from your mistakes.
[21:53.000 -> 21:54.880] There's the clarity
[21:55.080 -> 21:56.200] that she talked about.
[21:56.400 -> 21:57.800] Cheers.
[21:58.480 -> 22:00.480] But would you do the same, Serena?
[22:00.680 -> 22:04.200] Would you, if you made a mistake, whether it was setting up a team tactically
[22:04.400 -> 22:09.280] or you picked the wrong personnel, would you go in and admit that mistake to them?
[22:09.280 -> 22:13.680] I would admit and accepting mistakes from myself is harder than from others.
[22:13.680 -> 22:14.800] Yeah, I bet.
[22:16.240 -> 22:19.360] Talking of making mistakes, it's one thing making a mistake on a training pitch,
[22:19.360 -> 22:22.640] it's another thing entirely making a mistake in a major competition, right?
[22:23.280 -> 22:25.600] And I'm really interested in the story of
[22:25.600 -> 22:30.160] when you were with the Dutch squad before you joined the Lionesses and you deliberately put
[22:30.160 -> 22:36.240] them under stress, you deliberately added issues and problems into the training camp. I'd love you
[22:36.240 -> 22:47.680] to share the story if you if you would happily do that. Yeah, what we did, that was right before the Euros 2017. And we were doing OK,
[22:48.320 -> 22:53.920] but you could feel that we weren't, as a team, we weren't honest enough.
[22:54.360 -> 22:54.960] So we...
[22:54.960 -> 22:56.440] And how did you feel that?
[22:56.440 -> 22:59.160] Well, when a mistake was made, you saw body language,
[22:59.160 -> 23:00.680] but they didn't say anything to each other.
[23:00.680 -> 23:03.600] And I thought, if that's going to happen in an opening game against Norway
[23:03.840 -> 23:08.240] under the highest pressure, then you see the real behaviours, because then it comes out.
[23:08.240 -> 23:12.400] So what you want to do is have those moments before you are under the highest pressure.
[23:13.120 -> 23:19.680] So I thought we have to do something to get people annoyed, so things happen. So what we saw,
[23:20.880 -> 23:25.360] someone got, made mistakes and then got annoyed and started doing other things.
[23:25.360 -> 23:26.920] So not doing her task anymore.
[23:26.920 -> 23:28.960] But when you have 11 plays on the pitch
[23:28.960 -> 23:32.000] and one player stops doing her task,
[23:32.000 -> 23:33.180] I just said a couple of times,
[23:33.180 -> 23:36.240] then the team doesn't can count on her anymore.
[23:36.240 -> 23:37.440] And that's not what you want
[23:37.440 -> 23:40.280] because then as a team, you don't play good enough.
[23:40.280 -> 23:43.120] So we tried to organize that we were refer,
[23:43.120 -> 23:45.920] we always horrible referees when we referee ourselves.
[23:45.920 -> 23:49.640] But now we even on purpose were even worse than horrible.
[23:49.880 -> 23:51.480] So they got really annoyed.
[23:51.480 -> 23:54.200] And what we saw in the training session, we filmed all the training sessions,
[23:54.200 -> 23:56.560] that they started doing totally different things.
[23:56.960 -> 23:59.440] Like the centre defender was just going into attack
[23:59.440 -> 24:01.360] and trying to do it all on her own.
[24:01.760 -> 24:02.960] And I thought, OK, that's good.
[24:02.960 -> 24:04.960] But they got so pissed off
[24:07.000 -> 24:11.000] that they start, of course, blaming me being a bad referee. And I got really pissed off, too.
[24:11.000 -> 24:15.760] So it actually had influence on mine, too. So I thought, well, this is not what I meant.
[24:15.760 -> 24:21.600] I should stay calm and they should really get annoyed. So then after that training camp,
[24:21.600 -> 24:25.200] everyone went home. And I thought, OK, leave them.
[24:25.200 -> 24:27.800] And I had some time also to relax.
[24:27.800 -> 24:31.640] So then in the weekend, I called a couple of players and said, OK, this is what happened.
[24:31.640 -> 24:32.640] This is what you should do.
[24:32.640 -> 24:35.720] You we can make a huge step with the team now.
[24:35.720 -> 24:37.200] Do you want to contribute to that?
[24:37.200 -> 24:39.880] And of course, they wanted to contribute to that.
[24:39.880 -> 24:41.440] So they thought about it.
[24:41.440 -> 24:42.440] Other players jumped in.
[24:42.440 -> 24:48.360] So the opening meeting for the next moment we came together, they took the floor and
[24:48.360 -> 24:53.280] said, okay, and we showed the clip that not doing the task anymore, not being accountable
[24:53.280 -> 24:58.760] and what we had to do to make this or to prevent this or to behave better as a team and as
[24:58.760 -> 25:00.040] a team player.
[25:00.040 -> 25:01.480] And that was really, really helpful.
[25:01.480 -> 25:02.560] I love that.
[25:02.560 -> 25:06.600] One of the things that you seem to have this ability to do is to work out the moment that
[25:06.600 -> 25:08.200] you need to have an impact on your squad.
[25:08.200 -> 25:11.480] You know, there are times where you can allow things just to carry on, but there's moments
[25:11.480 -> 25:15.400] where you obviously feel, hold on, I need to impact things here.
[25:15.400 -> 25:17.960] How do you judge when the right time is to step in?
[25:17.960 -> 25:21.660] I try to prepare as good as possible and together with the staff.
[25:21.660 -> 25:26.920] So whenever we go into camp or whenever that's for training sessions, but it's also for games.
[25:26.920 -> 25:29.020] And I think I should relate this to games.
[25:29.960 -> 25:32.160] So you have your style of play,
[25:32.160 -> 25:33.920] you have analyzed your opponents,
[25:33.920 -> 25:37.400] you make your game plan related
[25:37.400 -> 25:39.640] to the opponent you play against.
[25:39.640 -> 25:42.200] And then you try to turn every stone
[25:42.200 -> 25:44.440] so you're prepared as good as possible.
[25:44.440 -> 25:48.900] And when you do that, then when the moment comes and you play the game, you just have
[25:48.900 -> 25:49.940] to observe really well.
[25:49.940 -> 25:53.220] And then it comes to your intuition, because you have prepared everything.
[25:53.220 -> 25:58.940] And then what you see, so that's why I think you should stay calm, because the calmer you
[25:58.940 -> 26:03.260] are, the better you can observe, the better decisions you can make.
[26:03.260 -> 26:05.600] And then it's feeling what you have to do.
[26:06.800 -> 26:09.880] So, for example, when we played, we played playoffs with the Netherlands,
[26:09.880 -> 26:12.240] so we became European champions.
[26:12.920 -> 26:15.720] Then we lost one game against Norway and we had to play playoffs
[26:15.720 -> 26:17.680] to qualify for the World Cup.
[26:17.680 -> 26:20.400] And we we played Switzerland.
[26:21.720 -> 26:26.240] And we won the first game, 3-0, and everyone thought, oh, we're there, and then I thought,
[26:26.240 -> 26:32.120] okay. Then I start thinking, okay, there was a big difference. What can happen, what would
[26:32.120 -> 26:38.240] prevent us from making the World Cup, what things could happen? The only situation that
[26:38.240 -> 26:47.420] could trouble us is getting an early red card. And what would I do then? So you're trying to think in scenarios all the time.
[26:47.420 -> 26:50.940] So in the seventh minute,
[26:50.940 -> 26:52.640] one of the players got a red card.
[26:52.640 -> 26:56.460] So, but I had prepared, I thought about that,
[26:56.460 -> 26:57.740] we discussed it, so it was like,
[26:57.740 -> 27:00.540] okay, this needs to be done, we need to take her out.
[27:00.540 -> 27:03.640] And then you really have to step up,
[27:03.640 -> 27:05.920] and you don't have five minutes to
[27:05.920 -> 27:10.120] arrange it because then you can have you can see the goal so that went really quick and
[27:10.120 -> 27:14.760] then it's done and those are the moments then you'd have your intuition but when you have
[27:14.760 -> 27:19.480] thought about things it comes quicker you can have quicker decision making.
[27:19.480 -> 27:23.480] Because one of the areas that jumped out to me reading your book that you had with the
[27:23.480 -> 27:29.000] Netherlands team was one of your values was about staying in the moment. Yeah. Which sounds like
[27:29.000 -> 27:32.360] that's what you described in some ways. Would you expand on it and
[27:32.360 -> 27:36.720] explain why that was so significant? I think when you stay in a moment, when
[27:36.720 -> 27:41.200] you're thoughtless in a moment, you're really action thinking. What do you have
[27:41.200 -> 27:45.400] to do instead of result thinking? Because when you're thinking results,
[27:45.400 -> 27:47.440] you're not thinking what you have to do,
[27:47.440 -> 27:51.240] but the consequences of things going right or wrong.
[27:51.240 -> 27:55.560] And you, at the end, you can only influence a result
[27:55.560 -> 27:57.160] by doing the right things.
[27:57.160 -> 28:01.040] So you have to do, think in actions and in your task
[28:01.040 -> 28:02.880] and together with the team.
[28:02.880 -> 28:05.160] That's why we say say stay in the moment.
[28:05.520 -> 28:09.120] So what tips are, because that's an incredibly useful skill,
[28:09.440 -> 28:11.680] but it doesn't come naturally to many of us.
[28:11.680 -> 28:14.360] So what tips or techniques did you learn
[28:14.920 -> 28:19.240] with yourself and your players that so that you could share with us?
[28:19.640 -> 28:22.120] Yeah, I think you can train it.
[28:22.280 -> 28:30.120] I think in this, we don't talk a lot in football about mental training.
[28:30.120 -> 28:35.720] And I think like football is also brains, because you have to make decisions all the
[28:35.720 -> 28:36.720] time.
[28:36.720 -> 28:41.000] So you have technical ability, tactical ability, and in the game you have to see.
[28:41.000 -> 28:45.280] So why is we, well, I think like a football training,
[28:45.280 -> 28:48.440] a physical training and technical training,
[28:48.440 -> 28:50.280] you also have to train the brain.
[28:50.280 -> 28:53.000] I think mental training should be,
[28:53.000 -> 28:56.720] always be part of your football program.
[28:56.720 -> 28:58.240] And there you can train those things
[28:58.240 -> 28:59.640] by staying in the moment,
[28:59.640 -> 29:02.840] learning how to direct your attention
[29:02.840 -> 29:04.840] and staying in that also.
[29:04.840 -> 29:08.500] But it's also the fitter you are, the less you come,
[29:08.500 -> 29:10.240] like when you get fatigued,
[29:10.240 -> 29:15.240] then your decision making can drop because you're fatigued
[29:15.600 -> 29:17.560] and then your attention goes to other things.
[29:17.560 -> 29:20.400] So of course, it's the big, the whole picture,
[29:20.400 -> 29:22.600] but I think mental training should absolutely be part of it.
[29:22.600 -> 29:27.560] And you can train like visualization, breathing, meditation.
[29:28.600 -> 29:30.240] You can really learn it.
[29:30.240 -> 29:32.200] So when you've introduced that to the teams
[29:32.200 -> 29:35.080] that you've coached, what tends to be the reaction
[29:35.080 -> 29:38.760] when you direct them into the mental training,
[29:38.760 -> 29:41.040] if it's not so commonly practiced?
[29:41.040 -> 29:44.720] No, well, I think when you coach a national team,
[29:44.720 -> 29:47.600] you only have them like several weeks
[29:47.600 -> 29:49.960] and we have the support in that.
[29:49.960 -> 29:57.240] So if a player, so we say we empower them or encourage them to do it, but the player
[29:57.240 -> 29:59.400] herself, she's responsible for her development.
[29:59.400 -> 30:04.620] So if she doesn't want to do it or doesn't see the value of it, then we're not going
[30:04.620 -> 30:05.800] to push that.
[30:05.800 -> 30:07.520] If you don't see the value of training sessions,
[30:07.520 -> 30:10.000] you have a problem, of course.
[30:10.000 -> 30:13.040] But if someone doesn't want to do the mental training
[30:13.040 -> 30:15.640] and we're going to force and push it, it's not going to work.
[30:15.640 -> 30:17.400] So someone has to be ready for it.
[30:17.400 -> 30:20.480] But what we do, there's two things about the mental training,
[30:20.480 -> 30:25.000] it's like team dynamics and where the sports psychologist can have influence
[30:25.000 -> 30:30.600] in too. But it's also learning skills, individual skills. I think that should be part of a program
[30:30.600 -> 30:35.960] at the club because that's a daily thing. But if players want to and they want support
[30:35.960 -> 30:39.920] from our sports psychologist, that's absolutely available too.
[30:39.920 -> 30:45.600] And out of all the mental skills that you maybe practice, for you as a head coach,
[30:45.600 -> 30:50.600] which one would you say has been the most valuable to allow you to go on and be so successful?
[30:51.360 -> 30:57.440] Yeah, I do yoga and I do breathing and meditation.
[30:57.960 -> 31:03.400] And that's really necessary for me, to stay calm and say, my world has changed.
[31:03.400 -> 31:06.360] Like, what are you all doing here?
[31:06.560 -> 31:09.280] So 10 years ago, you would not be here.
[31:09.480 -> 31:10.360] I would not be here.
[31:10.560 -> 31:12.720] So my world has changed, too.
[31:12.920 -> 31:15.440] And it's incredible to see the development
[31:15.640 -> 31:17.720] of the game and the visibility we got.
[31:17.920 -> 31:21.520] And it's really incredible to be part of that, too.
[31:21.520 -> 31:22.880] Like being six year old,
[31:22.880 -> 31:25.520] cutting your hair and not being allowed to play to where we are now.
[31:25.520 -> 31:27.840] And it's really cool now to play football
[31:27.840 -> 31:31.600] and to be able to become a professional coach
[31:31.600 -> 31:33.440] or a professional football player.
[31:33.440 -> 31:37.240] But that also comes, there's so much attention
[31:37.240 -> 31:39.600] that I'm training myself to stay calm
[31:39.600 -> 31:43.200] and also stay in the moment.
[31:43.200 -> 31:44.720] I think if I wouldn't do that,
[31:44.720 -> 31:47.040] my head would go all over the place.
[31:47.040 -> 31:48.920] Serena told us a great story when she arrived,
[31:48.920 -> 31:51.280] her car came around there and she's like,
[31:51.280 -> 31:53.160] what were those people queuing up for?
[31:53.160 -> 31:56.840] We were like, they were queuing up for you.
[31:58.000 -> 31:59.880] Talking about change and adapting to change,
[31:59.880 -> 32:02.920] I just want to read a quote from your assistant
[32:02.920 -> 32:05.160] and talk to you about when you first arrived in England.
[32:05.160 -> 32:09.040] Because, first of all, Arjen Voorink's quote,
[32:09.040 -> 32:10.000] he says in your book,
[32:10.000 -> 32:11.800] in England, it's a whole different ball game,
[32:11.800 -> 32:13.160] and I find it fascinating.
[32:13.160 -> 32:15.360] I'm interested in why it's so different here
[32:15.360 -> 32:17.400] and how we can actually open up more easily
[32:17.400 -> 32:20.040] about the things that matter.
[32:20.040 -> 32:22.680] As well as that, Mary Earps, your amazing goalkeeper,
[32:22.680 -> 32:25.720] said in the book that she had lost her trust in leadership
[32:25.720 -> 32:27.800] because of a lack of honesty.
[32:27.800 -> 32:29.760] And you spoke about coming into English football
[32:29.760 -> 32:31.760] and when you're in the Netherlands
[32:31.760 -> 32:32.900] and you say, that's interesting,
[32:32.900 -> 32:34.560] you actually mean, oh, that's interesting.
[32:34.560 -> 32:37.280] Over here we mean, yeah, that's interesting.
[32:37.280 -> 32:42.280] And this need for you to kind of almost relearn
[32:42.400 -> 32:44.780] the language that you'd learned when you were in Holland,
[32:44.780 -> 32:48.040] because we talk differently over here, and this closed nature
[32:48.120 -> 32:49.920] with which a lot of us operate in this country,
[32:50.000 -> 32:52.480] I'd love to find out a little bit more about that,
[32:52.560 -> 32:55.520] because you managed to turn things around very fast.
[32:55.600 -> 32:59.880] Yeah, you know, before I came in, I took some English lessons and I tried...
[32:59.960 -> 33:02.760] Well, I played in the US, so I know a little bit of English,
[33:02.840 -> 33:09.720] and in the Netherlands everyone speaks English too. But these things, the difference, like if you want to communicate effectively,
[33:09.800 -> 33:11.600] and I'm talking about interesting,
[33:11.680 -> 33:14.640] and everyone thinks, well, she thinks we should not do that.
[33:14.720 -> 33:17.880] And for us, when you say it's interesting, you want to learn more about it.
[33:17.960 -> 33:19.360] So it's totally opposite.
[33:19.440 -> 33:21.040] So you have to know a couple of things.
[33:21.120 -> 33:23.320] And I made that mistake too.
[33:23.400 -> 33:24.320] Well, there were two things.
[33:24.400 -> 33:27.240] One, in the beginning, I said, when we watched,
[33:27.240 -> 33:29.640] when we review training sessions or we show clips,
[33:29.640 -> 33:30.960] I said, well, this is pretty okay.
[33:30.960 -> 33:33.460] And then I thought, well, we're doing a good job.
[33:33.460 -> 33:35.600] So after a couple of months, some players said,
[33:35.600 -> 33:38.440] well, when you say it's really okay, it's actually average.
[33:38.440 -> 33:40.440] And I said, oh, it's really nice you tell me now
[33:40.440 -> 33:42.960] because I was actually giving you compliments.
[33:43.920 -> 33:47.200] So that was really nice. And one time I went
[33:47.200 -> 33:51.600] with my, with the general manager, Anja, she's Dutch too, and we went to a game and then
[33:51.600 -> 33:57.120] Sue Campbell, she said, well, you could come over for dinner. And then we said, well, the
[33:57.120 -> 34:01.960] English people invite you for dinner, you're not sure if you should go. So we were thinking,
[34:01.960 -> 34:06.160] OK, if in the Netherlands you say come for dinner, you go for dinner.
[34:06.160 -> 34:08.920] So we sat talking to each other, I think for half an hour.
[34:08.920 -> 34:09.920] Should we go or shouldn't we?
[34:09.920 -> 34:14.040] Well, if we go and she doesn't expect us, it's really embarrassing too.
[34:14.040 -> 34:16.400] So at the end, we didn't go.
[34:16.400 -> 34:20.800] So the next morning, I asked her, Sue, did you really mean, yes, yes, you could have
[34:20.800 -> 34:21.800] come.
[34:21.800 -> 34:22.800] Oh, well, I'm sorry.
[34:22.800 -> 34:23.800] So then we felt it was rude.
[34:23.800 -> 34:24.800] We didn't go.
[34:24.800 -> 34:25.320] So we learned a lot about that situation. Yes, yes, you could have come. Oh, well, I'm sorry. Then we felt it was rude we didn't go.
[34:25.520 -> 34:27.280] We learned a lot about that situation.
[34:27.480 -> 34:29.960] And in the team, you know, they laugh at us sometimes.
[34:30.160 -> 34:32.240] Some words I just keep mixing up.
[34:32.440 -> 34:35.520] And you just, you know, it's just funny, you know, you know,
[34:35.720 -> 34:39.240] a little bit of self humor that brings some joy to you.
[34:39.280 -> 34:40.560] Don't take everything too seriously.
[34:40.760 -> 34:44.440] Absolutely. And I'd just like to ask you about Mary Erbs.
[34:44.640 -> 34:47.640] And that's a very honest quote from her in your book to say that, you know,
[34:47.640 -> 34:49.440] she felt people have been dishonest,
[34:49.680 -> 34:51.880] therefore she'd lost trust in leadership in football.
[34:52.200 -> 34:56.160] What did you do to rebuild leadership with her, to turn her into
[34:56.800 -> 34:59.280] arguably the greatest goalkeeper in the world?
[34:59.600 -> 35:00.320] Yeah, of course.
[35:01.400 -> 35:05.800] Yeah, she has experienced something very hard over the years.
[35:05.800 -> 35:07.640] I didn't know that before she came in.
[35:07.640 -> 35:12.240] I just knew sometimes she was selected and sometimes she was not.
[35:12.240 -> 35:15.760] But when I came in, she performed really well for the club.
[35:15.760 -> 35:18.000] So we said we have to bring her in.
[35:18.000 -> 35:23.240] And then when we had some training sessions, she did really well in the training sessions.
[35:23.240 -> 35:26.480] And as I said, the first camp, we had individual chats with players.
[35:26.480 -> 35:27.760] So I did that with Devon Ward,
[35:27.760 -> 35:29.680] the goalkeeper coach and myself,
[35:29.680 -> 35:32.720] and we had the chats and that was later on in the week.
[35:32.720 -> 35:35.080] So we also decided who was gonna play.
[35:36.000 -> 35:39.200] So we combined that conversation
[35:39.200 -> 35:41.460] and she said she was really grateful that she was selected.
[35:41.460 -> 35:43.080] She didn't expect it.
[35:43.080 -> 35:45.880] And then it was a little bit emotional.
[35:45.880 -> 35:48.920] And I said, well, we just said, well, you performed really well,
[35:49.280 -> 35:52.960] so you deserve to be selected because that's what you did.
[35:53.320 -> 35:56.480] And you performed so well in this camp that you're going to start tomorrow, too.
[35:56.680 -> 36:00.320] And that became really emotional because she didn't expect that at all.
[36:00.320 -> 36:02.440] She was a little low in confidence.
[36:03.160 -> 36:06.640] And I said, well, you know, there was some goalkeepers,
[36:06.880 -> 36:09.160] some goalkeepers weren't there and they had been there
[36:09.360 -> 36:11.560] at the Olympics and before, but they were injured, too.
[36:11.560 -> 36:13.840] So I said, I don't know how the future goes, but right now
[36:14.080 -> 36:18.680] you've performed at the best and we think you should play
[36:18.680 -> 36:20.320] so you can play on Friday.
[36:20.320 -> 36:22.680] And from then, she just did so well.
[36:23.240 -> 36:27.000] So she talks highly about me, but basically her performances
[36:27.000 -> 36:33.000] that made us make the decisions to put her in the starting lineup.
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[39:20.860 -> 39:24.340] so can we talk to you about the reference before you came out straight
[39:24.340 -> 39:29.000] around ending the years of national pain here in England for football fans can we Gallwn ni siarad â'ch gysylltiad cyn i chi ddod allan, ymlaen, a chael y blynyddoedd o farchnad gwleidyddol yma yng Nghymru ar gyfer faniau ffotbolaeth?
[39:29.000 -> 39:31.000] Gallwn ni fynd i'r ffinal hwn?
[39:31.000 -> 39:34.000] Oherwydd, eto, i ddifrifio Jill Scott yn eich llyfr,
[39:34.000 -> 39:37.000] mae hi'n siarad am eich bod chi wedi newid y ffordd y mae hi'n meddwl.
[39:37.000 -> 39:40.000] Roedd hi'n meddwl y byddwch chi'n rhaid i chi fwytho rhywbeth i seilio â'r faniau.
[39:40.000 -> 39:42.000] Ac rydych chi wedi dweud, rydych chi'n seilio â'r faniau,
[39:42.000 -> 39:44.000] os ydych chi'n fwytho rhywbeth neu dim.
[39:44.000 -> 39:49.040] Ie. Ond rwy'n ddiddorol o'ch profiadau a'ch gof. But I'm interested in your experiences and your memories of that day at Wembley,
[39:49.040 -> 39:51.840] when we did win the Euros.
[39:51.840 -> 39:54.880] Would you tell us it from your perspective on the touchline?
[39:55.760 -> 40:00.320] Well, that's one of the most incredible sports moments of my life.
[40:01.080 -> 40:10.000] So that noise, I will never forget that noise. I told you, you were there.
[40:10.000 -> 40:21.240] I think it was also your support because that helped a lot too. You kept us going. So one
[40:21.240 -> 40:27.480] December 1st, you have to be there too, just so you know.
[40:33.880 -> 40:37.320] So, what Jill said, what I noticed when I came in, like, I know, when I was an international player, we were happy when there were 5,000 people coming to watch
[40:37.320 -> 40:43.000] us. And now the game has changed so much. So lots of people come out there,
[40:43.920 -> 40:46.880] travel, some travel the whole day to come there.
[40:47.080 -> 40:49.600] And we went on the pitch and we went like this and thought,
[40:49.600 -> 40:50.840] we have to focus on the game.
[40:50.840 -> 40:53.800] I thought we should be really grateful and happy.
[40:54.040 -> 40:57.720] And we were happy, but they thought that I was thinking that they wouldn't
[40:57.720 -> 41:00.560] weren't focused on football when they would wave to the fans.
[41:00.880 -> 41:04.800] So I said, you better go out and wave because they took all the efforts
[41:04.800 -> 41:06.000] to come and support us. And I know you're such professionals that better go out and wave because they took all the efforts to come and support us.
[41:06.000 -> 41:12.000] And I know you're such professionals that you go out there, you wave and then you start your warm-up.
[41:12.000 -> 41:17.000] And I'm not thinking you're not focused on football, but you're in this stage now, you play at the highest level.
[41:17.000 -> 41:21.000] And it's an absolute privilege that you're allowed to play for 80,000 people.
[41:21.000 -> 41:25.840] So we better enjoy it. No discussion of that final would be complete
[41:25.840 -> 41:28.960] without also talking about your own personal situation
[41:28.960 -> 41:30.800] in the build up to that.
[41:30.800 -> 41:33.180] I mean, what I find incredible, and again,
[41:33.180 -> 41:35.380] reading your account of it in the book is,
[41:35.380 -> 41:39.580] how you processed the grief of dealing with your sister
[41:39.580 -> 41:42.560] and her passing away to be able to come and perform.
[41:42.560 -> 41:45.840] Would you tell us a little bit about what you learn about dealing with those
[41:46.040 -> 41:49.400] emotions and still being able to go out there and be in the moment?
[41:49.600 -> 41:50.800] Yeah.
[41:51.000 -> 41:52.760] Yeah, I think, you know, in life,
[41:52.960 -> 41:57.120] so also in football life, sometimes things go really well and
[41:57.320 -> 42:02.440] sometimes things don't go well and you don't have control of a lot of things in life.
[42:02.640 -> 42:06.720] My sister got diagnosed cancer right before the Olympics,
[42:06.720 -> 42:11.240] the Netherlands, and it took about a little more than a year
[42:12.320 -> 42:13.360] before she passed away.
[42:13.360 -> 42:16.080] And at the moment I started in England,
[42:16.080 -> 42:17.360] she was already ill.
[42:18.600 -> 42:21.520] So, and I thought when I sign a contract abroad,
[42:21.520 -> 42:23.240] I hope that everyone stays healthy
[42:23.240 -> 42:29.880] because otherwise it becomes really hard. And then she got that. But we found a way and it was really nice. We played
[42:29.880 -> 42:33.440] one game in Luxembourg so she could come and drive there. And unfortunately, she couldn't
[42:33.440 -> 42:38.920] come to England at all because we had bad news. She got bad news all the time. So before
[42:38.920 -> 42:44.200] the tournament, we knew she was going to pass away because she went really downhill. Of
[42:44.200 -> 42:47.120] course, you don't really know the moment, but she went really bad.
[42:47.280 -> 42:49.720] But we had so many conversations
[42:50.720 -> 42:54.600] together and she was such she's one of my biggest fans
[42:55.640 -> 42:58.160] and my husband, he's over there.
[42:58.160 -> 43:01.160] So she said, you better perform there and you better go get that
[43:01.680 -> 43:02.720] get that prize.
[43:02.720 -> 43:03.360] And I'll be there.
[43:03.360 -> 43:06.560] I'll sit on the crossbar or on the post for you.
[43:06.560 -> 43:10.000] And we had some of those moments and it was so close.
[43:10.000 -> 43:12.640] So she wanted me to do well.
[43:12.640 -> 43:15.640] And of course I wanted, the team was so supportive,
[43:15.640 -> 43:17.520] the FA, the whole team was so supportive.
[43:17.520 -> 43:21.840] So I could park it at that moment and perform really well.
[43:21.840 -> 43:24.080] I actually really enjoyed it too.
[43:24.080 -> 43:26.800] And afterwards I got hit a little bit.
[43:26.920 -> 43:29.800] Yeah, as the final whistle blew and you walked onto the pitch
[43:29.920 -> 43:34.480] and famously kissed the bracelet, that was her bracelet, wasn't it?
[43:34.600 -> 43:39.440] Yeah, so when she got really at the end of her life and I had to go,
[43:39.560 -> 43:41.760] she told me, Srini, you have a training camp, you have to go,
[43:41.880 -> 43:43.520] I found that really hard.
[43:43.640 -> 43:45.600] So I said, well, can I take something from you?
[43:45.600 -> 43:48.280] And so she gave me her bracelet.
[43:48.280 -> 43:50.640] So that just felt really nice.
[43:50.640 -> 43:52.440] And I just kept it, I still have it on.
[43:52.440 -> 43:56.840] And well, at that moment that you become European champion, it's so emotional.
[43:56.880 -> 43:58.120] I didn't even know I was doing that.
[43:58.120 -> 44:01.200] You don't even you're not even aware anymore that the whole world is watching.
[44:01.200 -> 44:02.960] There's so many cameras around you.
[44:02.960 -> 44:04.120] I was just doing it.
[44:04.120 -> 44:08.080] And later on, I noticed, OK, I had done that and everyone's seeing it now.
[44:08.280 -> 44:09.960] But that's fine, too. It's part of life.
[44:10.160 -> 44:14.640] And I felt so connected with her that it was a really nice moment.
[44:14.840 -> 44:19.840] So what can you teach us people here tonight and listening to the podcast
[44:20.040 -> 44:25.840] about managing emotions, even in something as extremely intense as that,
[44:26.040 -> 44:29.400] and still be able to go out there and function?
[44:29.600 -> 44:32.520] Yeah, I think, first of all, you have to embrace it.
[44:32.720 -> 44:36.840] Like, you can park things for a certain amount of time,
[44:37.040 -> 44:41.680] but you can't just push it away and thinking it's not there, because,
[44:41.880 -> 44:45.000] well, part of the book about it, the body keeps score.
[44:45.700 -> 44:49.600] So then it comes back at moments you really don't want it
[44:49.600 -> 44:51.680] or you get pain in your body.
[44:51.680 -> 44:56.680] And so you have to find a way to also grieve and mourn
[44:58.200 -> 44:59.880] and take that time, but you can't just say,
[44:59.880 -> 45:01.440] okay, now I'm gonna sit down
[45:01.440 -> 45:04.200] and now I'm gonna be really sad.
[45:04.200 -> 45:05.960] So that doesn't help either.
[45:05.960 -> 45:10.520] But at the moment you have to embrace it and find those moments.
[45:10.520 -> 45:13.040] And then there are some moments that you have to park for a while.
[45:13.040 -> 45:15.640] And then I think I can do that pretty well.
[45:15.640 -> 45:18.000] I've been working in this environment for such a long time.
[45:18.000 -> 45:21.520] I've well, this was the hardest one, but there have been moments
[45:21.520 -> 45:24.120] that I had to park things too.
[45:24.120 -> 45:28.560] And then at another moment, you have the time and it will hit you anyway,
[45:28.760 -> 45:33.520] but then you have the time to to to embrace it and really
[45:33.720 -> 45:36.360] take those moments to process it too.
[45:36.560 -> 45:38.960] In many ways, did it actually help to put
[45:39.160 -> 45:42.160] into perspective that football is just a game?
[45:42.360 -> 45:46.200] You know, sometimes I think the role you're in, it can be so all consuming and actually, you know,
[45:46.200 -> 45:48.560] your husband who's here this evening and your friends,
[45:48.560 -> 45:49.960] they're the ones that pay the price.
[45:49.960 -> 45:50.960] You know, your family members
[45:50.960 -> 45:52.760] that you don't spend as much time with
[45:52.760 -> 45:54.960] and your daughters, they pay the price.
[45:54.960 -> 45:57.720] And maybe this was a moment that actually reminded you
[45:57.720 -> 45:59.720] that there's an awful lot more to the world
[45:59.720 -> 46:02.440] than just winning and losing games of football.
[46:02.440 -> 46:05.160] Yeah, in those moments, absolutely.
[46:09.560 -> 46:09.760] And then sometimes at that moment, when it's so fresh, you think, oh, it's worth
[46:13.000 -> 46:17.040] everything, but then things go on and then you get so into football again, you want to win everything, you want to do all your best and you get sucked into it again.
[46:17.240 -> 46:22.600] But what does happen is, don't wait.
[46:22.800 -> 46:26.240] Do things now when you have the opportunity to do it, some things you
[46:26.240 -> 46:27.280] really want to do.
[46:27.400 -> 46:31.120] So don't wait because you don't know what your life looks like next year.
[46:31.400 -> 46:32.760] Things can happen so quickly.
[46:32.760 -> 46:34.920] So that's what I really learned.
[46:35.360 -> 46:39.040] And yeah, just family is the most important thing and health.
[46:39.040 -> 46:40.920] Family and health is just the most important thing.
[46:40.920 -> 46:44.800] It doesn't mean you have to make choices when you're in this environment.
[46:44.800 -> 46:48.480] You can't just say, OK, now, now it's family time. I'm not coming to training session.
[46:48.480 -> 46:54.320] That's not how it works. But you just have to work on everything to keep things right.
[46:54.880 -> 47:00.080] Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that with us. The other thing that you and your incredible
[47:00.080 -> 47:05.440] players seem to be experts at is choosing the right moment to make your voices heard.
[47:05.440 -> 47:11.200] And as the father of young daughters who love sport, I'd love to just take this moment to
[47:11.200 -> 47:15.120] applaud you for the letter that came out straight after the success in the Euros,
[47:15.120 -> 47:16.960] because the truth is, absolutely.
[47:23.760 -> 47:27.640] Yeah, and that's not me, that's really the players.
[47:27.640 -> 47:29.440] The players did that.
[47:29.440 -> 47:34.200] Incredible, I'm so proud of them, like, taking that moment.
[47:34.200 -> 47:36.520] But it starts with performing at the highest level.
[47:36.520 -> 47:41.840] So first, we're professional players, we want to perform at the highest level, and when
[47:41.840 -> 47:45.160] you do, then you have the platform to address things.
[47:45.160 -> 47:49.040] And they really took that moment and they absolutely made a positive change
[47:49.440 -> 47:53.600] for society. And hopefully your daughters will benefit from that.
[47:53.880 -> 47:55.320] Well, I certainly hope so.
[47:55.320 -> 47:58.760] And look, you know, we've seen in recent months, there's still big areas
[47:58.760 -> 48:00.800] where these things need to change and they need to improve.
[48:00.800 -> 48:03.480] And in fact, you wrote in your book that, you know, you learned
[48:03.800 -> 48:06.120] to change the way you make decisions
[48:06.120 -> 48:07.520] when you're in front of men.
[48:08.440 -> 48:10.880] Yeah, I know I'm generalizing a little bit,
[48:10.880 -> 48:11.960] but that's how it works for me.
[48:11.960 -> 48:14.120] And that's what I've heard from a lot of women.
[48:14.120 -> 48:15.880] When they ask you, do you want to have this job?
[48:15.880 -> 48:17.840] The first thing you think, okay, I can't do this
[48:17.840 -> 48:19.840] and I can't do that and I can do that.
[48:19.840 -> 48:21.840] But your first thing, what you can't do.
[48:21.840 -> 48:25.400] I think with a lot of men, you can confirm or not,
[48:25.400 -> 48:29.920] they think, yes, I'm gonna do it, and then they start a job, and I think, hmm, maybe
[48:29.920 -> 48:34.480] this is not right yet. But the first... My wife is nodding at the back of the room right now.
[48:34.480 -> 48:40.080] So I think that's why it's also important that, you know, when you
[48:40.080 -> 48:50.320] have these proceeds, you need women in the the room and women most of the time need a little encouragement and a little more time to overthink things and then
[48:50.520 -> 48:53.920] take the decision, oh yes, you're now looking very different.
[48:54.120 -> 48:55.600] Your face.
[48:56.040 -> 48:58.640] No, but I think it's like,
[48:58.840 -> 49:04.560] I talked to Eleanor, like three women in that are in different
[49:04.760 -> 49:05.000] environments also working in men dominated or at the highest level. like three women that are in different environments
[49:05.400 -> 49:09.660] also working in men-dominated or at the highest level.
[49:09.660 -> 49:11.920] And we shared those experiences too.
[49:11.920 -> 49:16.120] So like you have to encourage women a little more
[49:16.120 -> 49:18.840] in general, I think, and give a little more time
[49:18.840 -> 49:20.960] and not think, oh, she's insecure of that.
[49:20.960 -> 49:22.600] No, we just need a little more time
[49:22.600 -> 49:25.400] and need to be encouraged, So you can't do it.
[49:25.400 -> 49:28.840] And is your overriding emotion, look how far we've come?
[49:28.840 -> 49:32.080] Or is your overriding emotion, look how far we've still got to go?
[49:32.080 -> 49:36.040] No, that's black and white a little bit.
[49:36.040 -> 49:37.040] Yeah.
[49:37.040 -> 49:41.760] No, I'm really like...
[49:41.760 -> 49:48.480] Well, I think I'm so happy that I've been part of this whole journey.
[49:48.680 -> 49:53.280] And I could not imagine that we're here now where we are.
[49:53.480 -> 49:54.880] And that's so positive.
[49:55.080 -> 49:58.560] I'm really positive because we've taken so many steps forward.
[49:58.560 -> 50:00.560] And I think we're going into the right direction.
[50:00.760 -> 50:04.000] But I also think we still have a long way to go.
[50:04.200 -> 50:05.840] So it's a little bit of both.
[50:05.840 -> 50:09.120] So to move forward, then, Serena, and talk around the World Cup,
[50:09.600 -> 50:13.360] when you reflect on that tournament, what are the big learnings
[50:13.360 -> 50:17.120] that you would take away from that to allow you to go and retain
[50:17.480 -> 50:19.720] the European Championships in two years time?
[50:20.840 -> 50:25.200] Yeah, I think what we learn about the women's game is developing very quickly.
[50:25.200 -> 50:31.000] So what we saw at the World Cup, some unexpected scores.
[50:31.000 -> 50:34.000] So talking about football development now.
[50:34.000 -> 50:38.680] I think lots of teams now, they are better in defending.
[50:38.680 -> 50:40.160] So they're more structured.
[50:40.160 -> 50:42.000] They also, the players are fitter.
[50:42.000 -> 50:44.240] So especially, I'm not talking about the top country,
[50:44.240 -> 50:48.360] but the country that are catching up with the top, so that they can defend really well
[50:48.360 -> 50:51.240] and they can keep doing that the whole game.
[50:51.240 -> 50:53.660] And they're more dangerous on the counter-attack too.
[50:53.660 -> 50:56.620] But I also think we have some data on that.
[50:56.620 -> 51:02.480] I also think that we as England, we want to dominate the game.
[51:02.480 -> 51:06.720] We want to, and we have to become even better to that,
[51:06.720 -> 51:08.240] being tighter on the ball,
[51:08.240 -> 51:10.840] but the chance of winning is higher then,
[51:10.840 -> 51:14.200] but we also have to be prepared to take out the counter-attack.
[51:14.200 -> 51:17.280] We basically saw that against Germany the other day too.
[51:17.280 -> 51:21.000] So that's the change and that will come closer and closer.
[51:21.000 -> 51:22.400] Yeah, the learnings from that,
[51:22.400 -> 51:26.160] what this team did in the World Cup, we had so
[51:26.160 -> 51:30.640] many challenges before the tournament and during the tournament, and the team showed
[51:30.640 -> 51:36.080] so much resilience and we were so adaptable to new situations, also changing the style
[51:36.080 -> 51:41.800] of play, injuries, the red card. I think they did incredible under the circumstances we
[51:41.800 -> 51:46.080] were in. And I hope we can keep building on the resilience
[51:46.080 -> 51:49.060] and becoming better, keep growing,
[51:49.060 -> 51:52.160] and hopefully we can stay at the top level.
[51:52.160 -> 51:53.520] Well, that was what I was going to ask now,
[51:53.520 -> 51:55.680] because almost for the first time in your tenure,
[51:55.680 -> 51:57.760] there is a bit of pressure, there's a bit of scrutiny.
[51:57.760 -> 51:59.840] You know, the last few results have been challenging
[51:59.840 -> 52:02.900] for you as we look towards the Olympics.
[52:02.900 -> 52:05.520] Without giving too much away.
[52:09.240 -> 52:09.320] I would love to know what you've identified is going on at the moment
[52:12.760 -> 52:13.160] and what's happening right now with you and the rest of your wider team
[52:16.560 -> 52:17.200] to make sure that, come the Olympic Games, we're there.
[52:18.400 -> 52:19.680] Yeah, you're never sure.
[52:23.120 -> 52:23.200] But I think, yes, we had two losses in four games,
[52:24.400 -> 52:24.480] in the qualification games.
[52:28.200 -> 52:28.400] I think when you look at those games,
[52:31.280 -> 52:31.480] I think the Netherlands, the first half, they were back to the second half.
[52:35.920 -> 52:36.120] I thought we played a good game and we just were struggling scoring goals.
[52:39.640 -> 52:39.840] And we were very unlucky to get a late goal against Belgium.
[52:43.880 -> 52:44.080] I think it's almost a miracle that they scored three goals
[52:46.360 -> 52:48.880] because we had the ball for 75 percent and we were in their final third all the time
[52:48.880 -> 52:50.640] and we could have scored lots of goals.
[52:50.640 -> 52:52.800] We just, we have to do a couple of things better there.
[52:52.800 -> 52:55.400] So I think how we played
[52:55.400 -> 52:59.280] and how we wanted to show who we are,
[52:59.280 -> 53:00.720] we didn't even do that bad.
[53:00.720 -> 53:02.640] Just the final pass, we have to do better.
[53:02.640 -> 53:06.040] And I think we were a little bit unlucky in that bad, just the final pass, we have to do better. And I think we were a little bit unlucky in that game,
[53:06.040 -> 53:08.640] but on luck is also we have to,
[53:08.640 -> 53:10.640] we need to get back that final edge
[53:10.640 -> 53:14.160] because I don't really believe in luck and on luck.
[53:14.160 -> 53:17.280] So yeah, we have to do a couple of things better.
[53:17.280 -> 53:19.520] I always say, when you go really well,
[53:19.520 -> 53:22.320] when you go really well, stay neutral.
[53:22.320 -> 53:25.760] And we have an English phrase on that, when you really well
[53:25.760 -> 53:31.320] you go in a pink cloud, it's like you become a little bit complacent. Now always stay neutral
[53:31.320 -> 53:35.000] because only when the results are going really well, you always have things that go really
[53:35.000 -> 53:42.000] well, but you also have to keep developing to stay at that level. Now we had some disappointing
[53:42.000 -> 53:46.960] results and when you see the data, then actually we didn't play that bad.
[53:46.960 -> 53:49.160] Yeah, we definitely have to do a couple of things better,
[53:49.160 -> 53:51.660] but we're not all of a sudden a bad team.
[53:51.660 -> 53:54.680] And so we're not, we have to stay neutral too
[53:54.680 -> 53:57.000] and bring back, okay, what do we have to do?
[53:57.000 -> 53:58.500] How do we stick together?
[53:58.500 -> 54:01.920] What's our game plan again on December 1st?
[54:01.920 -> 54:03.520] Yeah, and we know we have to win too much,
[54:03.520 -> 54:04.960] but actually we want to win every game.
[54:04.960 -> 54:07.400] And it's absolutely doable, I think.
[54:08.640 -> 54:11.240] And we're going to do everything to win those games.
[54:11.720 -> 54:13.560] And can I ask you about yourself as a coach then?
[54:13.560 -> 54:16.240] What are you looking to improve?
[54:17.720 -> 54:20.840] Keep connected with players, keep connected with staff
[54:20.840 -> 54:23.880] and trying to get better, keep listening to the players
[54:23.880 -> 54:27.600] on what do we need to do better, but also keep the trends,
[54:27.680 -> 54:29.000] and that's what we're doing.
[54:29.080 -> 54:32.440] So what's the value, what do we have to do then?
[54:32.520 -> 54:38.040] And that's what I really want, get feedback also from players and staff
[54:38.120 -> 54:40.760] to say, OK, where can I still improve and things?
[54:40.840 -> 54:43.440] I think you can always improve in things.
[54:43.520 -> 54:48.360] So before we move on to our quickfire questions, your feeling is that despite what you've already
[54:48.360 -> 54:51.440] done, there's still so much to do with the lionesses, right?
[54:51.440 -> 54:52.440] Yeah.
[54:52.440 -> 54:55.000] Why are you asking that?
[54:55.000 -> 54:57.400] We're excited.
[54:57.400 -> 54:58.400] Yeah.
[54:58.400 -> 55:03.240] Okay, quickfire questions, Serena.
[55:03.240 -> 55:06.400] The first one is, what three non-negotiable
[55:06.600 -> 55:10.640] behaviours do you and your team around you need to buy into?
[55:10.840 -> 55:13.680] Non-negotiables, not working hard,
[55:13.880 -> 55:19.520] it's absolutely non-negotiable, not acting in team first so that you're
[55:19.720 -> 55:24.320] not supportive to your teammates, not taking action is a non-negotiable,
[55:24.520 -> 55:27.400] not taking action that's on and off pitch.
[55:27.600 -> 55:32.680] So you always have to keep communicating in good times and in.
[55:32.880 -> 55:36.760] Well, bad times sound so bad, but in challenging times, keep communicating.
[55:36.960 -> 55:38.840] So not taking any action where things are
[55:39.040 -> 55:43.240] happening in the team that need to be taken action on, that's a non-negotiable.
[55:43.440 -> 55:47.080] If you could go back to one moment of your life, what would it be and why?
[55:47.400 -> 55:50.160] In my football life? My personal life?
[55:50.240 -> 55:51.240] It's up to you.
[55:52.880 -> 55:57.760] Well, that's a very easy answer. That's the birth of my two kids.
[55:59.840 -> 56:00.840] Very nice.
[56:07.840 -> 56:09.040] Well, our two kids.
[56:10.120 -> 56:11.960] You need two persons. Come on now, it takes two to tango.
[56:16.760 -> 56:18.120] No talk about the making of, no.
[56:18.120 -> 56:18.960] No, no, no.
[56:20.800 -> 56:21.840] I thought you were more offended
[56:21.840 -> 56:22.680] that she hadn't said the wedding date.
[56:22.680 -> 56:24.560] He's very direct to his Dutch.
[56:23.000 -> 56:25.000] I thought you were more offended that she hadn't said the wedding date. He's very direct to his Dutch.
[56:27.000 -> 56:30.000] How important is legacy to you, Serena?
[56:31.000 -> 56:33.000] I think that's very important.
[56:33.000 -> 56:45.680] I think over the years, I feel more and more responsible to share things and to have a legacy. And I think with the book,
[56:45.680 -> 56:47.800] where lots of people contributed,
[56:47.800 -> 56:50.040] and I'm very, very grateful they did,
[56:50.040 -> 56:53.640] because I think it's a really good contribution to the book.
[56:53.640 -> 56:56.840] I think, I hope to inspire people.
[56:56.840 -> 56:59.240] I see so many different people here,
[56:59.240 -> 57:02.960] and it's really nice to see so many different people here,
[57:02.960 -> 57:06.000] but people from everywhere, whether you're in
[57:06.000 -> 57:12.320] sport or management or education, it doesn't matter, but even more girls and women to inspire
[57:12.320 -> 57:17.520] them and hopefully that brings more coaches, more female coaches. And that's what I hope
[57:17.520 -> 57:21.520] for also with this book even more. Yeah, that would be really great.
[57:21.520 -> 57:25.680] Lovely. What advice would you give to a teenage Serena, just starting out?
[57:26.880 -> 57:28.160] Follow your heart.
[57:29.120 -> 57:31.960] That's what I basically did, always.
[57:32.280 -> 57:35.920] And don't let anyone tell you you can't do it, because you can if you want to.
[57:44.960 -> 57:48.880] What is your biggest strength? What is your greatest weakness?
[57:50.880 -> 57:58.240] My biggest strength? I think connecting people, connecting with people. I think that's one of the
[57:58.240 -> 58:01.440] biggest strengths. But maybe you should ask other people that work with me.
[58:02.160 -> 58:03.360] And your greatest weakness?
[58:02.000 -> 58:02.200] I have to ask other people that work with me.
[58:04.280 -> 58:04.480] And your greatest weakness?
[58:10.560 -> 58:10.760] I think I'm doing my best and I'm doing a lot better, but not switching off.
[58:12.360 -> 58:12.560] And the final question then, Serena,
[58:17.720 -> 58:18.360] is what is your one golden rule to live in a high performance life?
[58:19.440 -> 58:19.640] Commitment.
[58:21.720 -> 58:21.920] Yeah, I think, well, first of all,
[58:24.080 -> 58:24.280] when you're in high performance, you have talent.
[58:31.200 -> 58:31.400] But I think, well, first of all, when you're in a high performance, you have talent, but I think commitment and perseverance are very important.
[58:37.120 -> 58:37.320] Brilliant. Well, look, can I just say on behalf of every football fan in this country,
[58:44.280 -> 58:44.480] thank you so much for answering the phone when the FA called.
[58:46.320 -> 58:49.920] And I know that, you know, when you came in, you wanted to completely rearrange the whole setup
[58:49.920 -> 58:52.040] of the backroom staff and how everything operated.
[58:52.040 -> 58:54.720] And you went in there and you met a bunch of players
[58:54.720 -> 58:55.880] that had doubts and fears
[58:55.880 -> 58:57.560] and weren't sure what was going to happen.
[58:57.560 -> 59:01.120] But there was one thing that we are in no doubt about at all.
[59:01.120 -> 59:03.600] What we needed was a direct coach to come in
[59:03.600 -> 59:09.160] and be direct with our players. And you delivered such joy. And I think I speak for all of us when I say that
[59:09.160 -> 59:14.980] I really hope that there is a lot more to come from Serena Vigeman as the England manager.
[59:14.980 -> 59:41.580] Thank you so much for joining us. Damien, Jake, this is nothing to do with you and I by the way but something special happened
[59:41.580 -> 59:45.800] in that room didn't it? Oh mate yeah, like goosebump moment, there was
[59:45.800 -> 59:52.720] something like we were literally witnesses to something that was warm, that was inclusive
[59:52.720 -> 59:58.960] and that was about lifting each other up and it was almost like everything that we wanted
[59:58.960 -> 01:00:05.840] this podcast to be happened and we were lucky enough to share it with a thousand people. I think what
[01:00:05.840 -> 01:00:10.800] was really lovely as well for Serena and you know she got quite emotional at
[01:00:10.800 -> 01:00:14.500] times in the interview I think if people watch it on YouTube they'll see you know
[01:00:14.500 -> 01:00:17.400] her welling up a bit maybe they wouldn't hear it if they just listen to the
[01:00:17.400 -> 01:00:22.280] podcast but I think um I think what I loved about her is the fact that talking
[01:00:22.280 -> 01:00:28.700] about people and the development and the growth and the improvement of people is what moves her.
[01:00:28.700 -> 01:00:34.060] And actually that was her in a room of 800 people who've all been moved and uplifted
[01:00:34.060 -> 01:00:35.060] and helped by her.
[01:00:35.060 -> 01:00:37.540] And I think she really responded to that.
[01:00:37.540 -> 01:00:41.180] It's almost the first time perhaps since the Euros that she's been in an intimate setting
[01:00:41.180 -> 01:00:43.420] where she's realized the power of what she's done.
[01:00:43.420 -> 01:00:44.420] Yeah, definitely.
[01:00:44.420 -> 01:00:48.440] You know, she spoke when Jill Scott shared it with us when she came
[01:00:48.440 -> 01:00:54.360] on about the idea of breaking the glass ceiling for so many females, not just in sport, but
[01:00:54.360 -> 01:01:00.280] just in society and culture in general. And I think when she goes out there and meets
[01:01:00.280 -> 01:01:05.280] a public that have felt inspired to break through those glass ceilings themselves
[01:01:05.280 -> 01:01:09.960] in their own world, he starts to see just the power of purpose.
[01:01:09.960 -> 01:01:15.160] And if people download the High Performance app and listen to the Q&A that we did afterwards,
[01:01:15.160 -> 01:01:19.660] they'll hear Dame Kelly Holmes ask Serena about her ultimate dream. And Serena actually
[01:01:19.660 -> 01:01:23.560] answered by immediately talking about the players and Kelly had to stop her and go,
[01:01:23.560 -> 01:01:25.640] no, no, what's your dream?
[01:01:25.640 -> 01:01:27.760] And actually Serena's dream is improving other people.
[01:01:27.760 -> 01:01:29.800] And I think that's what leadership is.
[01:01:29.800 -> 01:01:35.880] And we need to reframe leadership from being promoting myself, being successful myself,
[01:01:35.880 -> 01:01:39.000] getting promoted myself to lifting other people up.
[01:01:39.000 -> 01:01:40.000] That is leadership.
[01:01:40.000 -> 01:01:41.000] Yeah.
[01:01:41.000 -> 01:01:47.080] You know, leaving a situation better than you found it is what leaders should define success by.
[01:01:47.080 -> 01:01:53.720] And if we look at English football, is it a better place for Serena having touched it?
[01:01:54.000 -> 01:01:54.600] Definitely.
[01:01:54.640 -> 01:01:56.920] So therefore that makes her a successful leader.
[01:01:57.200 -> 01:01:57.800] Absolutely.
[01:01:57.800 -> 01:01:58.400] Thanks a lot, mate.
[01:01:58.600 -> 01:01:59.120] Thank you, mate.
[01:01:59.120 -> 01:01:59.880] That was a privilege.
[01:02:02.920 -> 01:02:03.680] So there we go.
[01:02:03.720 -> 01:02:07.840] Don't forget if you want to hear even more from Serena, after that conversation,
[01:02:07.840 -> 01:02:11.900] the audience got the chance to ask her some questions. You can hear that only on the High
[01:02:11.900 -> 01:02:16.820] Performance app. Just go to the App Store, download the app and use your exclusive code
[01:02:16.820 -> 01:02:23.020] HPAPP for that and so much more content on the High Performance app.
[01:02:23.020 -> 01:02:25.560] Luke, thank you so much for listening to this.
[01:02:25.560 -> 01:02:29.320] I think Serena is inspiring so many people around the world
[01:02:29.320 -> 01:02:32.280] and there's a chance for you to do exactly the same.
[01:02:32.280 -> 01:02:34.600] I would love it if you could just pass this conversation
[01:02:34.600 -> 01:02:36.980] to one person that you think needs to hear it,
[01:02:36.980 -> 01:02:39.280] one person who's ready to be inspired,
[01:02:39.280 -> 01:02:42.000] one person who can be helped by the kinds of messages
[01:02:42.000 -> 01:02:44.120] that Serena has shared with us.
[01:02:44.120 -> 01:02:47.520] By passing on this podcast, it means more to us than I can explain.
[01:02:47.520 -> 01:02:52.200] It helps us to grow, therefore helps us to attract more incredible names so that we can
[01:02:52.200 -> 01:02:53.760] have impact in your life.
[01:02:53.760 -> 01:02:57.260] And before I finish, I just want to share a message that I got on Instagram this week
[01:02:57.260 -> 01:02:58.400] from a guy called Jack.
[01:02:58.400 -> 01:03:03.640] He said that he loves the High Performance podcast and he's actually put loads of the
[01:03:03.640 -> 01:03:10.140] notes he's made from the podcast into an AI engine and it has created for him his own golden rule.
[01:03:10.140 -> 01:03:14.680] And I wanted to end today's episode by just sharing the golden rule that he's created and this is it.
[01:03:15.260 -> 01:03:28.240] Commit to constant self-improvement, embrace resilience and adaptability and treat yourself and others with respect all while pursuing your dreams with unwavering dedication and enthusiasm.
[01:03:28.240 -> 01:03:30.080] I really love that golden rule.
[01:03:30.080 -> 01:03:31.440] Thank you, Jack, for sharing it with me.
[01:03:31.440 -> 01:03:33.440] Thank you, Serena, for being on this episode.
[01:03:33.440 -> 01:03:36.520] And most of all, thanks to you for listening.
[01:03:36.520 -> 01:04:06.440] See you soon. These days, every new potential hire can feel like a high-stakes wager for your small business.
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