Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 02 Oct 2023 00:00:39 GMT
Duration:
1:09:18
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
This is a conversation about science, philosophy, the meaning of life, and the unfathomable size of the universe.
Professor Brian Cox is a physicist, known for his astronomy and cosmology series’, including The Universe and Stargazing Live. He has performed on several sell-out arena tours, setting the Guinness World Record for the biggest selling science tour. Before his career in science, at age 18 Brian embarked on a musical career, forming a band with the ex-keyboarder from Thin Lizzy. Brian shares stories of his 5 years as a professional musician; as a keyboard player in the bands Dare and D:Ream. Having achieved in D in Maths A-level, Brian discusses with Jake and Damain how this experience taught him his greatest lesson: the importance of practice.
In this episode, Brian imparts invaluable wisdom on the pursuit of greatness and knowledge, and his belief that “very few people are naturally great”. He shares his secrets on summoning the courage to ask difficult questions and the importance of saying “I don’t know”. They discuss the greatest threat to humanity: human stupidity, and Brian offers insights on creating global cooperation in a world with the power to destroy itself.
Jake, Damian and Brian tackle life's biggest questions, whilst exploring life's more personal subjects: self-doubt, fear and finding confidence.
See Brian on his live tour ‘Horizons’: https://briancoxlive.co.uk/
Download The High Performance App by clicking the link below and using the code: HPAPP
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
**Navigating the Vastness of the Universe and the Essence of High Performance: A Conversation with Physicist Brian Cox**
In this episode of the High Performance podcast, Professor Brian Cox, a renowned physicist, astronomer, and science communicator, delves into the captivating realm of science, philosophy, and the profound questions surrounding the universe and our existence.
**Seeking Knowledge and Embracing Uncertainty**
Cox emphasizes the significance of pursuing knowledge and understanding the world around us. He underscores the importance of recognizing that many things are inherently unknowable and that embracing uncertainty is crucial in the pursuit of progress. He highlights the example of the universe's origin, acknowledging that while we know it was incredibly hot and dense 13.8 billion years ago, the question of whether it had a beginning remains a mystery.
**The Power of Curiosity and Asking Questions**
Cox stresses the value of curiosity and the importance of asking questions, particularly in the realm of politics and societal issues. He advocates for a culture where it is acceptable to be wrong and where learning from mistakes is seen as a positive step towards progress. He believes that we should be less confident in our answers and more adept at asking insightful questions.
**The Importance of Practice and Attention to Detail**
Drawing from his diverse career experiences, including his time as a musician, academic, and television presenter, Cox emphasizes the significance of practice and attention to detail in achieving high performance. He believes that very few people are naturally great at something and that consistent practice and dedication are essential for mastery.
**Overcoming the Curse of Knowledge**
Cox discusses the challenge of communicating complex scientific concepts to a diverse audience, acknowledging the "curse of knowledge" that can hinder effective communication. He emphasizes the importance of honesty and transparency in conveying information, ensuring that explanations are accessible and relatable to people of all backgrounds.
**Creating a Culture of Learning and Improvement**
Cox highlights the need for a cultural shift towards embracing mistakes and learning from them. He advocates for environments where people are rewarded for recognizing their errors and where progress is driven by the willingness to improve and refine approaches.
**The Role of Science in Society**
Cox expresses his belief that science plays a vital role in society, providing a framework for understanding the natural world and addressing global challenges. He emphasizes the responsibility of scientists to communicate their findings and insights to the public, fostering a deeper appreciation for the scientific process and its contributions to human knowledge.
**The Significance of Passion and Responsibility**
Cox underscores the importance of passion in pursuing any endeavor, emphasizing that it is difficult to excel at something that one is not genuinely passionate about. He also highlights the responsibility that comes with having a platform and the opportunity to influence public discourse, particularly in the realm of science communication.
**The Unfathomable Scale of the Universe and Our Place in It**
Cox reflects on the vastness of the universe and the humbling realization of our insignificance in the grand cosmic scheme. He suggests that this perspective can be empowering, freeing us from the obsession with trivial matters and allowing us to focus on what truly matters in life.
In conclusion, Brian Cox's conversation on the High Performance podcast offers a thought-provoking exploration of science, philosophy, and the pursuit of knowledge. He emphasizes the importance of curiosity, embracing uncertainty, and fostering a culture of learning and improvement. Cox also highlights the role of passion, responsibility, and the significance of science in shaping our understanding of the world.
# Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript
## Introduction
* The podcast discusses science, philosophy, the meaning of life, and the vastness of the universe.
* Guest: Professor Brian Cox, a physicist known for his astronomy and cosmology series.
## Major Points
### 1. The James Webb Space Telescope and Its Discoveries:
* The telescope can look back in time to see the first galaxies forming in the universe.
* The initial observations have revealed unexpected findings, challenging current models and leading to potential discoveries.
* The existence of alien life forms is a possibility, but strong evidence is lacking.
### 2. The Importance of Asking Questions and Embracing Doubt:
* Encouraging curiosity and asking difficult questions is essential for scientific progress and understanding the world.
* The ability to say "I don't know" is crucial in the pursuit of knowledge.
* Doubt should not be feared but welcomed and discussed as a means to gain insights and learn.
### 3. The Greatest Threat to Humanity: Human Stupidity:
* Human stupidity poses a significant threat to humanity, particularly in a world with the power to self-destruct.
* The challenge lies in fostering global cooperation and preventing destructive actions in a world facing existential threats.
### 4. Tackling Life's Big Questions and Personal Struggles:
* The podcast delves into profound questions about life, meaning, and purpose.
* It explores personal subjects such as self-doubt, fear, and finding confidence.
### 5. The Value of Patience and Overcoming Doubt:
* Patience is crucial in the creative process and in achieving greatness.
* Doubt is a natural part of the creative journey, but it should not be feared.
* Embracing doubt and welcoming discussions can lead to valuable insights and learning opportunities.
### 6. Attention to Detail and Personal Involvement:
* Brian Cox emphasizes the importance of attention to detail and personal involvement in creative endeavors.
* He highlights the need for thorough preparation and understanding of the material to deliver effective presentations.
## Conclusion
The podcast emphasizes the pursuit of knowledge, the value of asking questions, and the importance of embracing doubt in the journey of understanding the universe and our place in it. It also highlights the significance of patience, overcoming doubt, and attention to detail in achieving success and delivering impactful work.
**Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript: Science, Philosophy, and the Meaning of Life**
This podcast episode delves into a captivating conversation between Professor Brian Cox, a renowned physicist, and hosts Jake Humphrey and Damian Lewis. The discussion encompasses a wide range of topics, including science, philosophy, the meaning of life, and the vastness of the universe.
**Key Themes and Insights:**
1. **The Importance of Practice and Persistence:** Brian Cox shares his experiences as a professional musician before pursuing a career in science. He emphasizes the value of practice and persistence in achieving greatness, stressing that very few people are naturally gifted. He encourages individuals to summon the courage to ask difficult questions and embrace the concept of "I don't know."
2. **The Pursuit of Knowledge and Understanding:** Brian highlights the significance of pursuing knowledge and understanding, regardless of one's background or education. He encourages individuals to be open to new information and evidence, constantly challenging their views and seeking deeper insights.
3. **The Greatest Threat to Humanity: Human Stupidity:** Brian expresses his concern about the growing polarization of political discourse, particularly in the United States. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining stability in countries like the United States and warns against the potential consequences of political upheaval.
4. **Creating Global Cooperation in a World with the Power to Destroy Itself:** Brian discusses the need for global cooperation in addressing the existential threats facing humanity. He emphasizes the importance of finding common ground and working together to solve global challenges, such as climate change and nuclear proliferation.
5. **Tackling Life's Biggest Questions:** Brian, Jake, and Damian engage in thought-provoking discussions about life's biggest questions, including the meaning of life, the nature of consciousness, and the existence of other intelligent life in the universe. They explore various perspectives and philosophical approaches to understanding these profound concepts.
6. **Confronting Self-Doubt, Fear, and Finding Confidence:** The conversation delves into personal experiences with self-doubt, fear, and the pursuit of confidence. Brian shares his insights on overcoming these challenges and emphasizes the importance of embracing vulnerability and seeking support from others.
7. **The Meaning of Existence in a Vast Universe:** Brian raises the possibility that our galaxy may be the only one in the Milky Way that harbors intelligent life. He contemplates the implications of this hypothesis and reflects on the potential significance of human existence in the vastness of the universe.
8. **The Overview Effect and the Sense of Perspective:** Brian discusses the concept of the overview effect, a psychological phenomenon experienced by astronauts who view Earth from space. He explains how this experience can provide a sense of perspective and instill a sense of interconnectedness and responsibility for the planet.
9. **The Value of Optimism and Humility:** Brian emphasizes the importance of optimism in maintaining a positive outlook on life and pursuing ambitious goals. However, he also stresses the need for humility and the recognition of one's limitations. He encourages individuals to be open to learning from mistakes and to approach life with a sense of curiosity and wonder.
10. **The Importance of Doubt and Intellectual Humility:** Brian advocates for the cultivation of doubt and intellectual humility as essential qualities for scientific inquiry and personal growth. He encourages individuals to question assumptions, embrace uncertainty, and be receptive to new ideas and perspectives.
11. **The Value of Persistence and Long-Term Planning:** Brian highlights the importance of persistence and long-term planning in achieving success. He emphasizes the need to set clear goals, work diligently, and remain committed to the pursuit of excellence, even in the face of challenges and setbacks.
12. **The Role of Authenticity and Attention to Detail:** Brian reflects on his broadcasting career and emphasizes the importance of authenticity and attention to detail. He explains how his commitment to delivering accurate and engaging content has contributed to his success as a science communicator.
13. **The Importance of Embracing Discomfort and Accepting the Process:** Brian encourages individuals to embrace discomfort and accept that the pursuit of excellence is a process that takes time and effort. He emphasizes the need to be patient, persistent, and willing to learn from mistakes in order to achieve long-term success.
Overall, the podcast episode offers a rich exploration of science, philosophy, and the meaning of life, featuring insightful perspectives from Brian Cox and engaging discussions with Jake Humphrey and Damian Lewis. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, providing valuable insights into the pursuit of knowledge, overcoming challenges, and finding purpose in a vast and interconnected universe.
[00:00.000 -> 00:05.920] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance on the High Performance
[00:05.920 -> 00:10.320] app. This is the award-winning podcast that unlocks the minds of some of the most fascinating
[00:10.320 -> 00:15.040] people on the planet. Alongside Professor Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories,
[00:15.040 -> 00:20.760] successes and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow.
[00:20.760 -> 00:23.040] Here's what's coming up.
[00:23.040 -> 00:28.120] Did the universe have a beginning? We know that the universe was very hot and dense 13.8
[00:28.120 -> 00:33.080] billion years ago. That's good. We call that the Big Bang. But whether that was a beginning
[00:33.080 -> 00:38.600] in time, whether the universe existed in some form before that, what it means to talk about
[00:38.600 -> 00:42.120] the beginning of time, we don't even know what time is.
[00:42.120 -> 00:49.000] If a big UFO came now, we walk outside and over Westminster, there's a spaceship hovering.
[00:49.000 -> 00:51.000] I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
[00:52.000 -> 01:01.000] The big problem at the moment is how to get along as a global society in a world where we have the means to destroy ourselves.
[01:09.040 -> 01:12.160] means to destroy ourselves. How can humanity justify our existence when faced with the power and infinite scale of nature?
[01:14.160 -> 01:19.040] Well, here we go then. Physicist Brian Cox joins us on the podcast today. He is a man who's on the
[01:19.040 -> 01:30.040] TV, on the radio, he's in theatres right across the world. But this is different. This is Brian talking and covering topics you haven't heard him talk about before.
[01:30.040 -> 01:33.760] Many of us have got questions, haven't we, about who we are and what our role is in this
[01:33.760 -> 01:34.760] life.
[01:34.760 -> 01:39.440] Well, actually, in this fascinating conversation, which focuses around high performance, you'll
[01:39.440 -> 01:45.000] feel humbled when you hear Brian talking about just how small we are in the vastness of the
[01:45.000 -> 01:48.240] universe and in some ways that insignificance can be so powerful. Maybe
[01:48.240 -> 01:51.880] it's the thing that stops us from obsessing about those tiny things that
[01:51.880 -> 01:57.200] derail us so often. You'll also hear Brian talk about passion, about hard work,
[01:57.200 -> 02:02.120] about deep focus, about reinventing himself and of course his version of
[02:02.120 -> 02:08.000] what high performance is. And don't forget if you download the high performance app right now for free
[02:08.000 -> 02:12.000] using the unique access code HPAPP
[02:12.000 -> 02:15.000] then you can hear an extended version of this conversation.
[02:15.000 -> 02:19.000] But let's do it, let's get you closer to your own version of high performance
[02:19.000 -> 02:23.000] as we hear from Professor Brian Cox.
[02:22.800 -> 02:26.880] here from Professor Brian Cox.
[02:32.440 -> 02:32.560] These days, every new potential hire can feel like a high stakes wager for your small business.
[02:37.000 -> 02:37.160] You want to be 100% certain that you have access to the best qualified candidates available.
[02:39.560 -> 02:39.800] That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs.
[02:45.680 -> 02:53.480] LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team faster and for free. Post your job for free at linkedin.com. Slash hard work. That's linkedin.com. Slash hard work to post
[02:53.480 -> 02:56.320] your job for free terms and conditions apply.
[02:56.320 -> 03:02.640] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you
[03:02.640 -> 03:08.600] can live a better life. And that's why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share. So Mint Mobile ditched
[03:08.600 -> 03:12.600] retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone
[03:12.600 -> 03:17.280] plans online and passes those savings to you and for a limited time they're
[03:17.280 -> 03:21.400] passing on even more savings with a new customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile
[03:21.400 -> 03:26.780] plans to $15 a month when you purchase a 3 month plan. That's unlimited
[03:26.780 -> 03:35.300] talk, text and data for $15 a month. And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless
[03:35.300 -> 03:40.780] service in comparison to providers that we've worked with before is incredible. Mint Mobile
[03:40.780 -> 03:45.280] is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans for 15 bucks a month.
[03:45.280 -> 03:49.960] So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those
[03:49.960 -> 03:54.880] unexpected overages, because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text and high-speed
[03:54.880 -> 03:58.880] data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.
[03:58.880 -> 04:01.680] Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan.
[04:01.680 -> 04:04.920] Bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[04:04.920 -> 04:09.480] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless
[04:09.480 -> 04:15.440] service for just $15 a month. To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited
[04:15.440 -> 04:28.760] wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com slash HPP. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at Mintmobile.com
[04:28.760 -> 04:40.960] slash HPP. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.
[04:40.960 -> 04:45.040] Brian welcome to High Performance. Thank you. pleasure to be here, to see you again
[04:45.040 -> 04:49.560] after we talk about our history. I first met you in 2000, right? Yeah, we worked together
[04:49.560 -> 04:54.540] 20 odd years ago. We always start this podcast with the question, what is
[04:54.540 -> 05:01.160] high performance? I think for me, I mean I've had three careers really, you know I
[05:01.160 -> 05:05.000] started out actually music, that's what probably talk about, then went into academia,
[05:05.000 -> 05:08.000] which I still do, and then the television, radio,
[05:08.000 -> 05:11.000] live shows. But I think across all
[05:11.000 -> 05:14.000] of them, I think it's doing a
[05:14.000 -> 05:17.000] good job, finding the way to do a good job.
[05:17.000 -> 05:20.000] And for me, I find it's attention
[05:20.000 -> 05:23.000] to detail. I found in any, all those
[05:23.000 -> 05:28.920] professions, nothing is easy. It requires practice and
[05:28.920 -> 05:34.340] it requires attention to detail and it requires you to also, I think, to me, take responsibility
[05:34.340 -> 05:35.340] for getting it right.
[05:35.340 -> 05:40.080] Well, let's dive into a few of those then. We'll start with the first one you mentioned,
[05:40.080 -> 05:43.960] which is kind of getting good at something. There's that great phrase, isn't there? How
[05:43.960 -> 05:47.640] good you're willing to be at something depends how long you're happy to be bad for.
[05:47.920 -> 05:48.200] Yeah.
[05:48.600 -> 05:49.480] That's make sense to you?
[05:49.520 -> 05:50.040] Absolutely.
[05:50.040 -> 05:52.600] And I think it's about practice, isn't it?
[05:52.600 -> 05:57.400] I often say, because my exam results, I got, I did well in physics, but I got a D in maths.
[05:58.000 -> 06:01.360] And it's because I didn't practice hard enough.
[06:01.560 -> 06:07.760] Very few people are naturally great at something. I'm certainly not. And
[06:07.760 -> 06:13.680] I suspect most people you've had on this podcast, you know, there's the odd Mozart or Messi
[06:13.680 -> 06:19.520] or something like that. But most people, I think, have maybe a bit of an aptitude for
[06:19.520 -> 06:25.840] something, but it's mainly about practice. And I that with maths definitely, I found it
[06:25.840 -> 06:31.160] with music and I found it with making TV programs as well. Now I've heard you
[06:31.160 -> 06:35.440] interviewed before Brian where you've said that that kind of message I imagine
[06:35.440 -> 06:39.160] was being drummed into you by your parents and now you're the father of a
[06:39.160 -> 06:43.720] 14 year old son. How do you get kids to understand that, that you've got to put
[06:43.720 -> 06:49.000] the effort in to get good at it without having to go through that bitter experience of getting a D?
[06:49.000 -> 06:55.000] I'm not sure if you can, I mean, if you're lucky your kids will find something they like doing.
[06:55.000 -> 07:05.720] And actually my son is playing guitar, so he, the moment he started playing guitar, he's been practicing over and over again.
[07:05.720 -> 07:08.240] He picks it up and he practices and he's getting good at it.
[07:08.640 -> 07:10.720] And so he's, he, but that wasn't me.
[07:11.120 -> 07:14.520] You know, I think, you know, most parents will say you can't force your
[07:14.520 -> 07:16.280] children to be interested in something.
[07:16.480 -> 07:17.640] It just doesn't work right.
[07:17.640 -> 07:23.060] I don't very rarely, but you can hopefully give them the encouragement when they
[07:23.060 -> 07:24.720] find the thing that they're interested in.
[07:29.920 -> 07:33.480] And I hope then that he's learning a more general lesson, which is actually the more you practice and the more work you put in, the more enjoyable it is, the more you enjoy
[07:33.480 -> 07:37.040] it, the better you get at it, the more you enjoy it and there's a virtuous circle. And
[07:37.040 -> 07:43.040] that I really think that applies to virtually everything that we do in life. But I think
[07:43.040 -> 07:44.040] you have to find it yourself.
[07:44.040 -> 07:52.000] Rory Kennedy Would you tell us a little bit about how people listening to this can go and create a fertile environment where
[07:52.000 -> 07:56.000] people can discover those interests and stay with it?
[07:56.000 -> 08:01.000] I mean when I was growing up, I mean, there wasn't any overt pressure.
[08:01.000 -> 08:10.960] I remember really vividly actually, because I think my mum and dad probably thought, I mean, we went to the same school, right? In Oldham. And, uh, they probably thought,
[08:10.960 -> 08:15.960] well, I'd do okay. And maybe I'd go to university. No one had been to university. They hadn't,
[08:15.960 -> 08:19.120] but thought I'd do well and I'd probably go to university. And then when I, when I was
[08:19.120 -> 08:27.120] about 15, um, 14 or 15, I discovered music. I'd always been quite interested and started a band with a
[08:27.120 -> 08:30.000] friend of mine who lived just up the road.
[08:30.000 -> 08:32.940] And they didn't stand in the way of that.
[08:32.940 -> 08:36.600] They probably were quite nervous about it, you know, cause they had no connection with
[08:36.600 -> 08:41.840] music or, and they just thought, you know, what, what is this thing?
[08:41.840 -> 08:46.880] But they enjoyed it and they didn't, first of all, they didn't stand in the way and they
[08:46.880 -> 08:50.480] encouraged it and tried to sort of facilitate it, I suppose.
[08:50.920 -> 08:57.000] And indeed, when I was 18, then I joined this band and we got a record deal.
[08:57.320 -> 09:00.800] So I was essentially thinking it was a gap year, to be honest.
[09:01.000 -> 09:02.400] That's the way I'd sold it.
[09:02.400 -> 09:05.600] Anyway, in my memory, I'd said, you know, I'll just do a year.
[09:06.000 -> 09:06.300] Right.
[09:06.300 -> 09:09.900] And then, and then I, and I'd applied to go to university, but I hadn't, I hadn't
[09:09.900 -> 09:12.800] actually got in to do physics because I got a D in maths.
[09:13.000 -> 09:14.700] So I'd, I'd got in to do something else.
[09:14.700 -> 09:18.800] I think it was engineering or something, which is great to do, but it wasn't
[09:18.800 -> 09:20.000] exactly what I'd wanted to do.
[09:20.700 -> 09:25.960] And then that turned into five years of being a professional musician.
[09:26.560 -> 09:30.060] And then at that point I thought, no, I actually, I want to do astronomy.
[09:30.060 -> 09:32.240] I'd always just wanted to be an astronomer really.
[09:32.580 -> 09:35.780] But when you go to the careers people at school and say, I want to be an
[09:35.780 -> 09:40.440] astronomer, they, at that time, anyway, in the 19 mid 1980s, they're like, no,
[09:40.440 -> 09:41.000] don't be silly.
[09:41.000 -> 09:44.860] Just you're not going to, you can't do that when you're talking about astronomy.
[09:45.360 -> 09:48.840] So, so by that point, I was lucky enough that I could go to the
[09:48.840 -> 09:50.760] university of Manchester and say, I really want to do this.
[09:50.760 -> 09:51.760] Like, that's what I want to do.
[09:51.760 -> 09:52.440] And they let me in.
[09:52.920 -> 09:58.040] Could you explain your process then to people of how you go from that moment
[09:58.040 -> 10:02.520] when you make a decision that you're going to change career, maybe to working
[10:02.520 -> 10:05.840] out how you're going to not just be okay at it, but be great at it or
[10:05.840 -> 10:07.960] be successful at it. What do you go through?
[10:07.960 -> 10:12.120] Yeah, I mean, with the caveat that you can never, I don't think you can plan to be great
[10:12.120 -> 10:16.200] and successful, can you? But you try and plan to do your best. You try and have a go, give
[10:16.200 -> 10:22.680] it a go. And with a good example, I think for me was with physics. I've been in music.
[10:22.680 -> 10:26.760] So I was 23 years old, I old when I went back to university.
[10:26.760 -> 10:32.240] And of course I was behind those people, most of the people in my year were 18 and they
[10:32.240 -> 10:36.760] just come through A levels and they've done probably better than me in the exams initially
[10:36.760 -> 10:39.160] because they'd got better grades.
[10:39.160 -> 10:42.400] But also they were fresh and they'd just come out of school and I'd had five years being
[10:42.400 -> 10:49.640] in a rock band. So I realized that I had to work really hard, particularly in maths, which I didn't have
[10:49.640 -> 10:53.520] a, and don't have a natural aptitude for if indeed anyone does.
[10:53.520 -> 10:54.520] Right.
[10:54.520 -> 10:58.800] So, so, so I, I think the key thing for me is I realized, and I still think it's very
[10:58.800 -> 11:05.280] important that I had to take responsibility for my own success or failure.
[11:05.280 -> 11:09.320] And I say this, I teach at the University of Manchester and I say it to the first years,
[11:09.320 -> 11:12.580] you don't need to do an exam to know whether you understand something actually, you know
[11:12.580 -> 11:17.000] in your deep down, you know whether you understand something or not.
[11:17.000 -> 11:20.480] And if you don't, then go and understand it.
[11:20.480 -> 11:24.240] And you know, we, the lecturers, everyone, the teachers, whoever it is, we're here to
[11:24.240 -> 11:32.960] help. And we the lectures everyone that teaches where it is we're here to help but it probably in my case usually if i don't get something it comes from reading about three different textbooks and sitting there and thinking.
[11:33.060 -> 11:39.000] And sometimes it can take a couple days to think it takes weeks to take months sometimes i never understand it right.
[11:39.160 -> 11:44.820] But it's it's going through that for me it's really important to take responsibility for your own.
[11:45.880 -> 11:50.840] going through that, for me, it's really important to take responsibility for your own, in this case, understanding something, being able to understand some bit of physics. But it
[11:50.840 -> 11:56.880] could be running fast, it could be playing football well, it could be playing the keyboards
[11:56.880 -> 12:03.960] well. Ultimately, I don't think anyone can teach you to be great.
[12:03.960 -> 12:07.840] There's another interesting element to this though, isn't there, which is passion.
[12:07.840 -> 12:12.800] And I remember when we worked together, you know, all those 20 odd years ago, watching
[12:12.800 -> 12:18.200] you talk about the things you're now famous for talking about, thinking, this guy just
[12:18.200 -> 12:20.440] has such a passion for it.
[12:20.440 -> 12:36.380] I'd love to get your thoughts on the importance of passion when it comes to high performance. Yeah i'm at you i don't think you'll ever get good at something that you're not passionate about and the thing that you're passionate about is it's completely unpredictable isn't it.
[12:36.600 -> 12:45.540] I think you get for some reason i got excited about stars and you know why i have no know I've, I've no idea really.
[12:45.660 -> 12:48.100] It's just always as far back as I can remember.
[12:48.680 -> 12:54.260] I've liked space, whatever it is, Apollo program, stars, anything
[12:54.420 -> 12:55.820] right about space I've liked.
[12:56.160 -> 12:58.020] And that's just one of those things that must've captured my
[12:58.020 -> 12:59.300] imagination when I was little.
[12:59.300 -> 13:00.160] I don't remember why.
[13:00.740 -> 13:08.460] When you go into the television business that we're in, having the, is it confidence?
[13:08.460 -> 13:09.580] What is it?
[13:09.580 -> 13:13.920] Just displaying your passion, just saying, well, it's, I'm not, I'm not trying to be,
[13:13.920 -> 13:15.480] I'm not going to be trying to be professional.
[13:15.480 -> 13:20.760] I'm not going to try and break these things down and try and deliver in any way that you
[13:20.760 -> 13:24.240] would be taught to deliver things as a television presenter.
[13:24.240 -> 13:26.560] I'm just going to say how I see it.
[13:26.640 -> 13:29.960] This is what I find exciting about that.
[13:30.520 -> 13:31.920] And so I'll just talk about that.
[13:32.000 -> 13:34.400] That's what I've always done that.
[13:35.000 -> 13:37.000] Because I don't really see any other way to do it.
[13:37.160 -> 13:41.040] Partly actually, probably, cause I've never seen myself.
[13:41.040 -> 13:44.160] I've never been interested in being a television presenter or, or
[13:44.160 -> 13:47.400] seeing myself as, as having that as a job. I've always seen myself as a
[13:48.120 -> 13:53.440] physicist who was fortunate enough to get offered a few of these television programs.
[13:53.720 -> 13:55.720] What's the passion there then? Is it
[13:56.040 -> 14:00.280] sharing with other people what you know? Is it seeing other people get interested and excited?
[14:00.280 -> 14:02.680] I think I know you well enough to know it isn't for the
[14:03.040 -> 14:07.360] social media follows and the autographs, right right and the upgrades in restaurants and hotels.
[14:07.360 -> 14:08.360] That's not what it's about is it?
[14:08.360 -> 14:09.360] You've not denied that.
[14:09.360 -> 14:20.840] The serious answer is so I grew up one of the things I grew up watching was one of the
[14:20.840 -> 14:25.160] people was Carl Sagan who I don't know if anyone's old enough will remember
[14:25.160 -> 14:31.240] I think Carl Sagan's Cosmos and it was on the BBC, 13 episodes, 13 weeks. And there's
[14:31.240 -> 14:34.920] very little science on television at that point, only three channels or something I
[14:34.920 -> 14:41.920] think at the time, but Cosmos was on and Sagan presented astronomy and he talks about astronomy
[14:41.920 -> 14:53.440] in the solar system and the universe, but he put it in a context, the context of our civilization. And he was explicit that this way of thinking,
[14:53.440 -> 14:59.120] this way of interrogating nature, trying to understand the natural world is vital for
[14:59.120 -> 15:08.400] our survival as a species. It's central to the, it's one of the, one of the necessary foundations of civilization.
[15:08.400 -> 15:18.440] So it was a polemic. So I genuinely think that science has the thought process, the
[15:18.440 -> 15:23.060] things we discover and that way of thinking about the world, acquiring reliable knowledge
[15:23.060 -> 15:31.920] about the world is the way we do it. That's important. So I do have an agenda when I talk about science on television
[15:31.920 -> 15:37.240] or live shows or whatever it is, because I think that it's important. I said once, actually
[15:37.240 -> 15:43.000] someone asked me once, why do you want to present a program on BBC One, for example,
[15:43.000 -> 15:45.760] about astronomy? And I said, I think science
[15:45.760 -> 15:51.600] is too important not to be part of popular culture. So I really believe that. So if you
[15:51.600 -> 15:57.880] believe it and you get a chance, luck again, you get the chance, the platform to do it,
[15:57.880 -> 16:07.620] then it would be ridiculous not to try and take that. I do think that scientists, if they want to and get the chance, have in some sense
[16:07.620 -> 16:13.780] a responsibility to talk about it. There are obvious things we could talk about. One topically
[16:13.780 -> 16:18.940] actually is Oppenheimer. I don't know if anyone's seen the film. I think it's a masterpiece,
[16:18.940 -> 16:30.720] Oppenheimer. I was interested in Oppenheimer. I got interested in him as a character quite a long time ago because I discovered that he gave the BBC wreath lectures in 1953 and they've
[16:30.720 -> 16:34.800] almost been obliterated from history because they're really hard and so we don't tend to
[16:34.800 -> 16:36.100] think of it.
[16:36.100 -> 16:43.360] But in those lectures, when I found them, I saw this scientist who obviously famously
[16:43.360 -> 16:45.640] played a role in developing the atomic bomb, so in
[16:45.640 -> 16:50.200] delivering the means by which we might destroy ourselves as a civilization, and he obviously
[16:50.200 -> 16:56.600] knew that and it tortured him. So what that made him do was think about how we might avoid
[16:56.600 -> 17:07.040] doing that. So he started thinking about politics and society and civilization? And are there any lessons from this tremendously successful
[17:07.040 -> 17:12.000] approach to acquiring reliable knowledge, which we call science? Are there any lessons
[17:12.000 -> 17:16.120] that we could apply in wider society? Certainly wasn't saying that scientists should run the
[17:16.120 -> 17:23.560] world, right? He clearly decided that was a bad idea. But, and some of those lessons,
[17:23.560 -> 17:25.600] you might call them transferable skills, which perhaps
[17:25.600 -> 17:29.660] goes back to the heart of what we're talking about, are important, I think.
[17:29.660 -> 17:36.780] And one of them is not kidding yourself, not, not deluding yourself into thinking that you
[17:36.780 -> 17:39.440] understand something, not, not.
[17:39.440 -> 17:46.980] So it's a really understanding that the world is very complicated and there are many ways of, it's difficult
[17:46.980 -> 17:52.040] to understand a black hole, right? A collapsing star, but it's also difficult to understand
[17:52.040 -> 17:57.520] how to run a society. It's really tricky. So there aren't simple answers. When I got
[17:57.520 -> 18:04.240] the opportunity to talk about science in my mind that I enjoy talking about it, I think
[18:04.240 -> 18:05.640] it's wonderful. I get excited about talking about these big ideas, but also in my mind that I enjoy talking about it. I think it's wonderful. I get excited
[18:05.640 -> 18:10.800] about talking about these big ideas. But also in my mind, there was also the things that
[18:10.800 -> 18:15.920] Oppenheimer and Sagan, Richard Feynman and other of my heroes had also said, which is
[18:15.920 -> 18:19.720] that there should be, there is a responsibility to talk about this way of thinking and the
[18:19.720 -> 18:21.920] things we've discovered.
[18:21.920 -> 18:25.800] Which leads us into one
[18:23.280 -> 18:28.480] of the areas that I think you're
[18:25.800 -> 18:31.840] masterful at, if you don't mind
[18:28.480 -> 18:33.760] me saying, is overcoming a common trait
[18:31.840 -> 18:36.440] that you see with lots of intelligent
[18:33.760 -> 18:38.640] people, the curse of knowledge, that you
[18:36.440 -> 18:41.200] know an awful lot but your ability to
[18:38.640 -> 18:44.120] translate that knowledge and make it
[18:41.200 -> 18:45.940] accessible to seven-year-old children or to a mass
[18:45.940 -> 18:52.200] audience on the BBC is a unique skill set in itself and I'm interested in
[18:52.200 -> 18:58.040] exploring how do you go about being able to communicate these complex difficult
[18:58.040 -> 19:02.920] ideas in a way that people can understand and start to get to grips
[19:02.920 -> 19:06.560] with. You know in part part, it's about that.
[19:06.560 -> 19:09.600] We talked earlier about honesty, being honest with yourself.
[19:10.240 -> 19:13.840] About how difficult it is to understand some of these concepts.
[19:14.200 -> 19:18.320] So if you've been through the process and I find this, I'm quite slow, quite often.
[19:18.360 -> 19:19.480] I just, I don't understand that.
[19:19.480 -> 19:20.040] I understand that.
[19:20.040 -> 19:20.520] I understand.
[19:20.960 -> 19:21.680] Oh yeah, that's it.
[19:22.440 -> 19:26.640] Then what I do usually is just talk about the
[19:26.640 -> 19:28.240] way that I understand something.
[19:28.700 -> 19:30.320] And it's quite often the way that a seven year
[19:30.320 -> 19:32.740] old would understand something because, because
[19:32.740 -> 19:35.760] you've been, I find anyway, if you're honest
[19:35.760 -> 19:40.080] with yourself, then if you really do understand,
[19:40.080 -> 19:43.160] if you really deeply get something, you've been
[19:43.160 -> 19:44.300] through that process.
[19:44.840 -> 19:48.440] So you've seen how difficult it is and it's almost always difficult.
[19:48.440 -> 19:48.680] Right?
[19:49.200 -> 19:52.880] So, so you're not gonna, you're not going to wave your hands around and obfuscate
[19:52.880 -> 19:57.600] and say, when you see someone doing that and you see it at university, you know, I
[19:57.600 -> 19:59.880] see it, I saw it with people who taught me.
[20:00.360 -> 20:03.760] You can tell when they don't really understand something because they fall
[20:03.760 -> 20:05.760] back on jargon
[20:05.760 -> 20:08.520] and wave their hands around.
[20:08.520 -> 20:15.240] And usually that's because they don't, they've not been through that process and they just,
[20:15.240 -> 20:19.960] they saw not tricking you, you know, but there is probably that they're tricking themselves
[20:19.960 -> 20:20.960] into thinking that they understand.
[20:20.960 -> 20:22.600] I mean, are you comfortable saying, I don't know?
[20:22.600 -> 20:23.600] I don't know the answer.
[20:23.600 -> 20:25.160] Oh, this is the basis of science.
[20:25.160 -> 20:26.160] It's fundamental.
[20:26.160 -> 20:30.960] I mean, Richard Feynman, we mentioned you'd know, so Feynman, Nobel Prize winning physicist,
[20:30.960 -> 20:33.300] also worked on the Manhattan Project actually.
[20:33.300 -> 20:36.040] One of the greats, a great teacher as well.
[20:36.040 -> 20:41.280] And he called science a satisfactory philosophy of ignorance, right?
[20:41.280 -> 20:47.400] And it's a really deep point actually, because he meant that all knowledge starts from.
[20:47.860 -> 20:52.560] You won the individual except in that they don't know.
[20:52.800 -> 20:59.560] You start with i don't know how that works i don't know why the skies blue i don't know why the leaves are green i don't know why the universe is the way that it is.
[21:00.020 -> 21:11.560] You have to start from that point and then you build you try to build a reliable picture it's a model of the world in your mind but being a scientist of course it's about doing research.
[21:11.720 -> 21:19.100] And that means that you're going to the edge of knowledge always been extremely comfortable standing on the edge of the known.
[21:19.520 -> 21:30.840] The dividing line between the known and the unknown and trying to find out a bit more. So you have to be delighted to not know in order to make any progress. And so, and I think
[21:30.840 -> 21:36.280] that's a skill. It's about jettisoning any fear of the unknown. And I think a lot of
[21:36.280 -> 21:41.560] time, we get into a lot of arguments as a society about things that are pretty unknowable.
[21:41.560 -> 21:45.000] Well, unknowable at the moment, we don't know. So even basic
[21:45.000 -> 21:49.360] things like did the universe have a beginning? We know that the universe was very hot and
[21:49.360 -> 21:55.200] dense 13.8 billion years ago. That's good. We call that the Big Bang. But whether that
[21:55.200 -> 22:00.160] was a beginning in time, whether the universe existed in some form before that, what it
[22:00.160 -> 22:08.920] means to talk about the beginning of time, we don't even know what time is, right? We don't know. We've got some sense, by the way, that it might be built of smaller
[22:08.920 -> 22:13.360] things, but we can leave that alone. But the thing is, it's key, isn't it? Because a lot
[22:13.360 -> 22:18.360] of people talk with great confidence about, I know how the universe began, I know why
[22:18.360 -> 22:24.960] the universe began. The answer is, nobody knows. We don't know yet. And that's interesting
[22:24.960 -> 22:25.680] and exciting.
[22:25.680 -> 22:27.400] Yeah, we're all making it up.
[22:27.400 -> 22:32.400] And I think it's really powerful if you can sit here and say, I don't know, then that's
[22:32.400 -> 22:33.400] great for everyone.
[22:33.400 -> 22:39.160] Yeah, and if you think about it, so we do accept in certain professions that it's good
[22:39.160 -> 22:42.500] to be, to know what you're doing.
[22:42.500 -> 22:44.600] Like for example, flying a plane.
[22:44.600 -> 22:46.780] Yeah. So being an airline captain.
[22:46.780 -> 22:50.980] Surgeon, the designer of a nuclear reactor.
[22:50.980 -> 22:55.720] You know, there are things where knowledge and experience are valued.
[22:55.720 -> 23:01.500] If you look at how our knowledge, and I used the term before, reliable knowledge, how that
[23:01.500 -> 23:03.760] knowledge was acquired.
[23:03.760 -> 23:06.180] It was acquired by people starting
[23:06.180 -> 23:12.080] from the basis they didn't understand. And then the moment, this is critical in science,
[23:12.080 -> 23:18.420] the moment that some new data appears, some new evidence, some new observation comes in
[23:18.420 -> 23:26.640] that conflicts with your picture of the world, then you start to be interested. You start to be excited. You go,
[23:26.640 -> 23:32.680] well, if I'm wrong with my picture, then I'm delighted because I've learned something.
[23:32.680 -> 23:38.040] I can rule that picture out and then I can go on to a new picture. So you, you have to
[23:38.040 -> 23:43.000] be delighted when you're shown to be wrong because you've learned something. And that,
[23:43.000 -> 23:49.040] of course, that, that does apply. I mean, that's how we have reliable airline flights.
[23:49.040 -> 23:50.320] So that's what pilots do.
[23:50.320 -> 23:52.160] The airline industry knows this.
[23:52.160 -> 23:57.920] When someone makes a mistake, the mistake is, is analyzed and in detail.
[23:58.160 -> 24:01.560] You're not supposed to point the finger and think in those industries, you're
[24:01.560 -> 24:03.680] supposed to find out how not to do it again.
[24:03.840 -> 24:10.320] It's like building a bridge, right? You don't, there are certain things, usually engineering
[24:10.320 -> 24:15.800] or like, you know, search medical procedures, you say, where it's all about the success
[24:15.800 -> 24:22.760] is about acquiring knowledge, about doing it better next time. It's not about everybody
[24:22.760 -> 24:26.120] thinking that you were right. And that we should just apply that. It's not about everybody
[24:22.760 -> 24:28.160] thinking that you were right. And that we
[24:26.120 -> 24:29.240] should just apply that. It's pretty obvious
[24:28.160 -> 24:31.040] really when you think about it isn't it?
[24:29.240 -> 24:32.960] Well it is in terms of the outcome but
[24:31.040 -> 24:35.560] you've mentioned a few things there that
[24:32.960 -> 24:37.600] have sort of resonated with me Brian that
[24:35.560 -> 24:40.480] I think would be helpful just to unpick
[24:37.600 -> 24:42.800] for anyone listening to this. Because we
[24:40.480 -> 24:44.920] all want the best outcome we can, but
[24:42.800 -> 24:46.480] whether that's improved knowledge of any topic.
[24:46.480 -> 24:51.800] But I'm interested in the ingredients that go into creating an environment or a culture
[24:51.800 -> 24:57.480] where that can be embraced, where people don't see it as fearful to be challenged.
[24:57.480 -> 25:02.600] And I'm interested is what would you say are the most key ingredients to do that?
[25:02.600 -> 25:08.840] I think it's pretty simple. It's, it's, it's almost rewarding people for being wrong, but you know, the sense in
[25:08.840 -> 25:13.680] which I mean that it's, it's saying that it is part of the process of making this
[25:14.040 -> 25:20.240] better is for, is for you to recognize when you're wrong, find it a positive
[25:20.240 -> 25:21.440] experience and learn.
[25:21.920 -> 25:24.680] And there's some, this is not a new thought.
[25:24.680 -> 25:25.720] I mean, there are industries,
[25:25.720 -> 25:30.400] I know there are safety critical industries where that's absolutely in the culture. It's
[25:30.400 -> 25:34.840] pretty obvious. But I think what would be interesting is to move that culture into
[25:34.840 -> 25:40.920] non-safety critical industries, like politics, for example. It would require a big culture
[25:40.920 -> 25:48.720] change amongst politicians and voters. But the idea that, it goes back to Oppenheimer, the idea that if you talk about policy, let's
[25:48.720 -> 25:56.340] say something really important, climate policy for example, the question of how do you reduce
[25:56.340 -> 26:00.240] emissions which we know is a problem, but how do you reduce it in a way that doesn't
[26:00.240 -> 26:06.280] disadvantage a section of society that shouldn't be disadvantaged and so on.
[26:06.280 -> 26:08.400] It's very, very, very complicated.
[26:08.400 -> 26:13.240] So therefore, when you put policies in place, some of them are going to be wrong.
[26:13.240 -> 26:15.240] Some of them are not going to work.
[26:15.240 -> 26:22.640] And that idea that you have a culture in society that says, well, we understand that it's impossible
[26:22.640 -> 26:26.880] to get the right policy all the time. But the positive
[26:26.880 -> 26:32.120] thing that progress comes from recognizing that didn't work and then trying another one.
[26:32.120 -> 26:33.760] And I think that's really important.
[26:33.760 -> 26:38.760] So we need to be better at asking questions rather than answering questions.
[26:38.760 -> 26:47.440] Yeah, I think, yeah, we have to be less confident in our answers and better at asking. Mason Let's take your world for example, right?
[26:47.440 -> 26:51.680] How much do you think we don't know about what's around us?
[26:51.680 -> 26:55.520] Reed I mean, we know a lot, but then almost nothing
[26:55.520 -> 27:01.280] as well, simultaneously. So, you know, as I said, it's interesting that a few stories
[27:01.280 -> 27:06.200] the other week, for example, about the new space telescope, the James Webb Space Telescope.
[27:06.200 -> 27:08.900] So this is the successor of the Hubble Space Telescope.
[27:08.900 -> 27:13.600] It was designed to see farther out into the universe than ever before.
[27:13.600 -> 27:17.400] And looking far out into the universe means you're looking back in time.
[27:17.400 -> 27:22.440] Because for example, the most distant thing you can see is the Andromeda Galaxy with the
[27:22.440 -> 27:23.440] naked eye.
[27:23.440 -> 27:25.520] You can just about see it on a dark night
[27:25.520 -> 27:29.040] if you know where to look. You can see it with binoculars and it's a wonderful thing
[27:29.040 -> 27:33.920] to do. So I'd recommend anyone who's listening or watching, go just find it. You'll see it
[27:33.920 -> 27:37.280] in the sky tonight if it's clear, it'll be there.
[27:37.280 -> 27:38.280] What are we looking for?
[27:38.280 -> 27:40.960] And with binoculars you'll see. It's kind of a, if you know where to look, it's a misty
[27:40.960 -> 27:44.920] patch in the sky. It's actually quite big. So you can get those phone apps, which are
[27:44.920 -> 27:49.240] free most of them, Starwalk kind of things. And you'll find it.
[27:49.240 -> 27:52.080] And then if you've got a pair of binoculars, you'll search around and you'll see this misty
[27:52.080 -> 27:58.240] patch. And it's wonderful because that's the most distant thing you can see without a telescope.
[27:58.240 -> 28:03.120] And it's 2 million light years away, which means the light took 2 million years to reach
[28:03.120 -> 28:05.200] your eye from that galaxy
[28:10.040 -> 28:10.320] So that means it began its journey before we had evolved on earth, right?
[28:15.040 -> 28:18.040] The human homo sapiens are not that old right two million years And so you're looking back in time two million years
[28:18.040 -> 28:21.120] You're seeing this thing as it was before there had been
[28:21.120 -> 28:27.000] He the humans existed on the earth right two years. And you can see it in real time.
[28:27.000 -> 28:32.000] So what the Webb Space Telescope can do is look so far out to such distant galaxies
[28:32.000 -> 28:36.000] that you're seeing the first galaxies form in the universe.
[28:36.000 -> 28:38.000] And that's what it was designed to do.
[28:38.000 -> 28:41.000] And the reason we want to do that is because we didn't understand.
[28:41.000 -> 28:43.000] We don't really understand how they form.
[28:43.000 -> 28:44.500] How far away is that light?
[28:44.500 -> 28:48.080] Well, that's over 13 billion years of light
[28:48.080 -> 28:53.760] travel time. So we're talking, and the universe is 13.8 billion years since the Big Bang,
[28:53.760 -> 28:59.400] right? So we're talking about seeing the first galaxies form in the universe and taking pictures
[28:59.400 -> 29:05.520] of it. And not surprisingly, it's not quite as we expected.
[29:05.520 -> 29:09.360] And I saw some headlines that said, you know, crisis, crisis in physics.
[29:09.360 -> 29:10.680] And it's not a crisis.
[29:10.680 -> 29:12.160] That's how you do science, right?
[29:12.160 -> 29:17.000] The reason we built this big thing and sent it out to make those observations is because
[29:17.000 -> 29:19.040] we weren't sure that we had it right.
[29:19.040 -> 29:22.600] We probably won't have it right because we haven't seen it before.
[29:22.600 -> 29:28.360] And there is indeed something interesting, and it could be profound, or it could be a little twiddle to our model and we're not
[29:28.360 -> 29:35.520] quite sure yet. But that's how you do it. So we were never going to be right. I don't
[29:35.520 -> 29:40.160] think we'll ever have the answers by any means. I mean there are deep questions. Are we alone
[29:40.160 -> 29:46.100] in the universe? I mean probably not. You'd guess there are two trillion galaxies in the universe? I mean, probably not. You'd guess there are two trillion galaxies
[29:46.100 -> 29:49.420] in the observable universe, right? So you would expect not.
[29:49.420 -> 29:54.860] What have you made of all the recent headlines about, you know, someone in the States saying
[29:54.860 -> 29:58.860] he's seen evidence of alien life forms on earth, something that was collected from the
[29:58.860 -> 30:02.980] bottom of the sea, those tiny ball bearings, and they say, oh, this has been formed by
[30:02.980 -> 30:07.400] a life form outside our galaxy.
[30:07.400 -> 30:11.800] It's a theory that isn't it? I mean, it says there's a theory there and so you can get
[30:11.800 -> 30:15.960] the little things and we will analyze them and have a look. I mean, I wouldn't, it's
[30:15.960 -> 30:19.640] funny because on, you mentioned social media, I think, you know, occasionally on social
[30:19.640 -> 30:25.920] media, I'll quite often, I'll tweet something and there'll be quite a few people who disagree
[30:25.920 -> 30:30.880] very reasonably strongly with what I said. And one of them is, is the UFO thing, you
[30:30.880 -> 30:35.680] know, that, I mean, there are people who really believe that there are UFOs visiting the earth.
[30:35.680 -> 30:38.960] And I always say that, you know, I haven't seen any evidence of that, that I think is
[30:38.960 -> 30:45.600] strong evidence. It's a huge claim that there are other civilizations out there that are visiting us. But I wouldn't
[30:45.600 -> 30:52.400] be surprised in a sense, in a strict sense, that if I said to someone the other day, if
[30:52.400 -> 30:58.480] a big UFO came now, we walk outside and over Westminster, there's a spaceship hovering.
[30:58.480 -> 31:04.800] I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised because I know that there are trillions of planets
[31:04.800 -> 31:06.360] in the Milky Way galaxy alone and
[31:06.360 -> 31:11.520] hundreds of billions of stars and there's been a lot of time. And one of the great mysteries
[31:11.520 -> 31:18.560] actually in physics is why we don't seem to see much out there, anything. There's strong
[31:18.560 -> 31:31.160] evidence of nothing out there at all at the moment. We have no strong evidence of any life beyond earth. And that's a puzzle and a paradox. It's about with those claims, you don't rule
[31:31.160 -> 31:34.200] them out. If someone says, well, I've got this, I found this thing at the bottom of
[31:34.200 -> 31:38.160] the sea and I think it's really weird. Then the correct thing to do is go, okay, we'll
[31:38.160 -> 31:41.860] put it in a lab and get an electron microscope and prod it around and find out just how weird
[31:41.860 -> 31:48.560] it is. And nature, Feynman again said, the thing to remember is nature does not care at all
[31:48.580 -> 31:49.320] what you think.
[31:49.700 -> 31:54.120] It doesn't matter who you are or how famous you are, any letters you've got before or
[31:54.120 -> 31:54.960] after your name, whatever.
[31:54.960 -> 31:55.840] It doesn't matter.
[31:56.040 -> 31:57.520] Nature just is.
[31:57.800 -> 32:01.680] So if indeed an alien spacecraft crashed into wherever it was that they found these
[32:01.680 -> 32:08.700] things a billion years ago and left all the fragments there and we've dug them up, then that's interesting, isn't it?
[32:08.700 -> 32:15.940] But if it didn't, then that's also interesting because then we get a profound puzzle about
[32:15.940 -> 32:19.680] why there don't seem to be many civilisations around.
[32:19.680 -> 32:26.640] Our next partner, you won't be surprised to hear, is AG1. Look, we've been working with
[32:26.640 -> 32:32.720] AG1 for months and months now, and it is something that for me is a non-negotiable in my day.
[32:32.720 -> 32:37.240] One scoop first thing in the morning and I've got 75 super high quality vitamins, minerals
[32:37.240 -> 32:42.480] and whole food sourced ingredients inside me. I honestly believe it increases my immune
[32:42.480 -> 32:49.760] system, improves my mood. I think I sleep better, I've got more energy. I've told you this so many times over the last year or so that I thought I
[32:49.760 -> 32:55.120] would invite someone onto my podcast, making their high performance debut, to tell you what she
[32:55.120 -> 32:59.760] thinks of AG1, because we take it together. It's my wife Harriet. Hey Harriet. Harriet
[32:59.760 -> 33:00.320] Morgan Hello.
[33:00.320 -> 33:02.480] Jason Vale So this is totally unnatural for her,
[33:02.480 -> 33:05.600] but she promised me that she would give it a go because she loves it as well.
[33:05.600 -> 33:08.400] So what do you think of AG1?
[33:08.400 -> 33:14.000] I personally love it. I'm a mum of two small children and with you being aware a lot,
[33:14.000 -> 33:19.800] I honestly think AG1 has been so good for me. It's the first thing I have when I wake up in the morning.
[33:19.800 -> 33:23.100] It's my go to drink and it's just a great habit that I've formed.
[33:23.100 -> 33:28.300] And although it's just a small change in my day I've seen such a huge impact on my energy levels,
[33:28.300 -> 33:34.300] my sleep and I think in the past year I can't think of any times when I've been
[33:34.300 -> 33:39.080] really poorly in bed I've just been so healthy since starting taking it so I'd
[33:39.080 -> 33:40.660] highly recommend it.
[33:40.660 -> 33:44.240] There you go, if you don't listen to me maybe listen to my
[33:44.240 -> 33:45.540] wife and if you're interested
[33:45.540 -> 33:49.840] in getting involved in AG1, if you want to take ownership of your health today, then
[33:49.840 -> 33:55.080] why not give it a go? AG1 are offering you a free one year supply of vitamin D and five
[33:55.080 -> 33:59.420] free travel packs with your first purchase. Just go to athleticgreens.com forward slash
[33:59.420 -> 34:05.320] high performance. That's athleticgreens.com forward slash high performance. Thanks Harriet.
[34:05.320 -> 34:06.320] Thank you.
[34:06.320 -> 34:15.200] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns.
[34:15.200 -> 34:20.960] But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either.
[34:20.960 -> 34:25.200] That's why if you're a B2B marketer, you should use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has
[34:25.200 -> 34:30.000] the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional audience.
[34:30.000 -> 34:35.840] That's right, over 70 million decision makers all in one place. All the big wigs, then medium
[34:35.840 -> 34:40.360] wigs, also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs. Okay, that's enough
[34:40.360 -> 34:45.500] about wigs. LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[34:45.500 -> 34:50.000] So, does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me,
[34:50.000 -> 34:52.500] the man with the deepest voice in the world?
[34:52.500 -> 34:54.500] Yes. Yes, it does.
[34:54.500 -> 34:59.000] Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
[34:59.000 -> 35:02.000] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
[35:02.000 -> 35:08.880] Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com results terms and conditions apply
[35:11.840 -> 35:17.420] On our podcast we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life
[35:17.420 -> 35:19.780] And that's why when I found mint mobile
[35:19.780 -> 35:25.440] I had to share so mint mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead
[35:25.440 -> 35:30.640] sells their phone plans online and passes those savings to you. And for a limited time,
[35:30.640 -> 35:35.600] they're passing on even more savings with a new customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans
[35:35.600 -> 35:46.000] to $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan. That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month.
[35:46.000 -> 35:50.480] And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison to
[35:50.480 -> 35:53.720] providers that we've worked with before is incredible.
[35:53.720 -> 35:59.000] Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans for $15 a month.
[35:59.000 -> 36:01.720] So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans,
[36:01.720 -> 36:05.000] those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those unexpected overages,
[36:05.000 -> 36:09.560] because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text and high-speed data delivered
[36:09.560 -> 36:15.320] on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan,
[36:15.320 -> 36:18.560] bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[36:18.560 -> 36:23.200] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless
[36:23.200 -> 36:25.160] service for just 15 bucks
[36:25.160 -> 36:30.180] a month. To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan for
[36:30.180 -> 36:38.980] just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com.hpp. That's mintmobile.com.hpp. Cut your wireless
[36:38.980 -> 36:45.240] bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash
[36:42.760 -> 36:47.440] HPP. Additional taxes, fees and
[36:45.240 -> 36:53.920] restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for
[36:47.440 -> 36:56.840] details. A lot of what you're
[36:53.920 -> 36:58.800] doing is teaching us how to think, how to
[36:56.840 -> 37:02.360] ask questions, just through your own
[36:58.800 -> 37:05.360] example. So how frustrated do you get,
[37:02.360 -> 37:06.680] if you do? That's again a supposition on my part, of when you
[37:06.680 -> 37:11.920] see people that do want to have an opinion rather than accepting that not having an opinion
[37:11.920 -> 37:13.680] is also a stance they can take?
[37:13.680 -> 37:23.720] Yeah, I mean it's about, I mean it's about, I think, looking at the, not only the evidence,
[37:23.720 -> 37:31.900] but our understanding, by which I mean our culture civilizations understanding of something and then trying to.
[37:32.300 -> 37:47.040] Work out your sometimes have to have an opinion that's what we talked about policy earlier so that is difficult being a politician to be fair to them because someone has to make a decision you have to something. So you have to make decisions based on incomplete data.
[37:47.040 -> 37:49.720] So you can have an opinion and say, well, this is my best guess.
[37:49.720 -> 37:50.720] Let's do that.
[37:50.720 -> 37:56.520] The key point is if it starts to look like that was the wrong best guess, then as I said
[37:56.520 -> 38:00.720] before, I mean, maybe it's too much to ask people to be delighted when they're wrong,
[38:00.720 -> 38:03.200] but ultimately that's what I mean.
[38:03.200 -> 38:04.480] You say, well, it's good.
[38:04.480 -> 38:09.360] Okay. So that's not the way to do it. Let's try something else. And so I think that's the point that
[38:09.360 -> 38:13.960] we are, obviously you can't sit there and just have no opinion about anything because
[38:13.960 -> 38:16.560] then nobody would still be in the cave then wouldn't we? Because no one would.
[38:16.560 -> 38:22.600] You see, I think opinion is fine and knowledge is great, but I love the Grayson Perry quote,
[38:22.600 -> 38:29.440] hold your beliefs lightly. Yeah. So you can really believe and really passionately believe you think you have the answer, but
[38:29.440 -> 38:30.440] hold that lightly.
[38:30.440 -> 38:36.160] And if someone comes along and offers a different opinion, you'd be foolish to ignore that.
[38:36.160 -> 38:37.160] Well, yeah.
[38:37.160 -> 38:42.880] And on that, actually going back to Oppenheimer, he gave this wonderful example in his Reith
[38:42.880 -> 38:45.060] lectures about how nature can help you think
[38:45.060 -> 38:46.060] like that.
[38:46.060 -> 38:50.560] And it was about an electron, because he did this in the 50s, and so quantum mechanics
[38:50.560 -> 38:54.400] was really new then and really widely debated.
[38:54.400 -> 38:55.400] What does it mean?
[38:55.400 -> 38:56.400] We're still debating it now, right?
[38:56.400 -> 39:02.080] But he said an electron, so sometimes it behaves like a point-like thing, like a grain of sand.
[39:02.080 -> 39:05.900] And that's probably if I said particle to you. You think grain of sand, right?
[39:05.920 -> 39:06.660] Thing, little thing.
[39:07.100 -> 39:10.340] And sometimes it behaves like that, but sometimes it behaves like this wavy
[39:10.340 -> 39:13.320] extended thing that fills the space that it's in.
[39:13.860 -> 39:17.140] And sometimes it, that's what the way to think about it.
[39:17.980 -> 39:21.360] But you said, actually though, neither of those is right.
[39:21.840 -> 39:26.840] They're both sort of an attempt to understand this very complicated thing that
[39:26.840 -> 39:28.700] behaves in a very complicated way.
[39:28.760 -> 39:29.060] Right.
[39:29.240 -> 39:30.600] So you need both pictures.
[39:31.040 -> 39:35.480] So you need to be capable of holding two ideas in your head at the same
[39:35.480 -> 39:37.220] time that appear contradictory.
[39:37.340 -> 39:39.660] So way the extended thing is a little point light thing.
[39:40.280 -> 39:42.800] But then he said, so it is with a society.
[39:42.940 -> 39:50.760] So let's think about human society. You know, we all go to all go to work and we we want to look after our family and we have a keeper,
[39:50.780 -> 39:56.600] keep some money in those things and individualistic individuals right so we care about our individual lives.
[39:56.780 -> 40:05.640] But also we all care about our society and so we want to give some money back in and pay our taxes and do things and we understand that society
[40:05.640 -> 40:06.880] is important.
[40:06.880 -> 40:10.960] So you have the two things there, you have the needs of the collective, the society and
[40:10.960 -> 40:12.760] the needs of the individual.
[40:12.760 -> 40:18.640] And of course, neither of those, he called them actually, I think, he called one communism
[40:18.640 -> 40:21.840] because he was in the 50s and he was having problems and McCarthy was going to go after
[40:21.840 -> 40:27.000] him and everything, he said communism and conservatism or libertarianism, you know, I mean, it's left and right.
[40:27.000 -> 40:33.800] And of course his point is that these are necessary but not sufficient pictures that
[40:33.800 -> 40:36.480] humans and human societies are very complex.
[40:36.480 -> 40:39.780] So there isn't a right way.
[40:39.780 -> 40:43.520] Communism isn't right and conservatism isn't right and liberalism isn't right.
[40:43.520 -> 40:44.520] These are not right.
[40:44.520 -> 40:51.680] Marxism, whatever, you list them all. They're all different necessary views trying to understand how a
[40:51.680 -> 40:57.800] society works. And it's actually, what he's saying is that centrism, sometimes it's a
[40:57.800 -> 41:02.440] nasty word, centrism, and people don't like it. They think it's a compromise. We're compromising.
[41:02.440 -> 41:05.320] We're neither one nor the other. It's not.
[41:05.320 -> 41:09.120] Oppenheimer was saying these are all, you have to hold all these ideas in your head
[41:09.120 -> 41:11.760] because it's really complicated.
[41:11.760 -> 41:17.260] So this idea that you're trying to run a society bearing in mind that there are lots of contradictory
[41:17.260 -> 41:23.040] views apparently and contradictory opinions and someone has one opinion, someone has another
[41:23.040 -> 41:25.920] opinion, that's a feature of society.
[41:25.920 -> 41:30.000] So we're not supposed to choose, we're not supposed to say you're right, so you're correct
[41:30.000 -> 41:35.200] and you're not correct. You're supposed to say, how do I get a complete picture of this
[41:35.200 -> 41:40.960] incredibly complicated system? And the reason I think Oppenheimer thought about it, obviously,
[41:40.960 -> 41:45.040] was because he thought if we don't do that, if we don't find a way
[41:45.040 -> 41:51.200] of not compromising but understanding that the world is very complicated, so then it's
[41:51.200 -> 41:56.160] not only a single country, it's all the different countries with different cultures and different
[41:56.160 -> 42:01.960] political histories and different views. If we don't find a way of stopping arguing and
[42:01.960 -> 42:06.040] trying to find a way to make that work. I've just given everyone
[42:06.040 -> 42:11.920] the means to destroy themselves. So I personally have delivered the atom bomb, which is now
[42:11.920 -> 42:17.760] has kind of raised the stakes on these arguments in the 50s. It's the middle of the cold war.
[42:17.760 -> 42:22.920] And now we're talking about AI being the kind of modern version of that atom bomb. Every
[42:22.920 -> 42:29.160] time I open a newspaper or read something on the internet, it's like AI is going to end civilization, isn't it?
[42:29.160 -> 42:31.800] We're having the same conversation again all these years later.
[42:31.800 -> 42:37.440] Yeah. So there will be, I mean, whether that's the threat or, you know, there's obviously
[42:37.440 -> 42:42.520] there are threats from all over the place. I still think the threat is probably human
[42:42.520 -> 42:47.920] stupidity. The possibility that someone will just press the button still.
[42:47.920 -> 42:49.040] You know, we grew up with that.
[42:49.040 -> 42:52.000] So it's interesting actually, we grew up in the 70s and 80s.
[42:52.000 -> 42:56.800] You grew up with the world's gonna get destroyed by nuclear bombs.
[42:56.800 -> 42:58.560] They're all there.
[42:58.560 -> 42:59.840] They're still there.
[42:59.840 -> 43:04.960] And you still have the same kinds of problems.
[43:04.960 -> 43:25.200] And obviously, international tensions and so I think you know for all the existential threats the big problem at the moment is how to get along as a global society in a world where we have the means to destroy ourselves. So it's not just a fight in a pub. It's exchanging nuclear
[43:25.200 -> 43:26.400] weapons if we're not careful.
[43:26.400 -> 43:31.560] So what's been the biggest thing that you've changed your mind on then? That for you personally,
[43:31.560 -> 43:36.480] that I got away from physics or your professional life?
[43:36.480 -> 43:49.360] In, it's a good question that I mean in, I think in politics. So I've been through a, a long learning process for
[43:49.360 -> 43:50.400] something I didn't agree with.
[43:50.400 -> 43:51.560] So let's say Brexit.
[43:51.700 -> 43:53.900] So let's be careful talking about Brexit, but
[43:53.900 -> 43:55.660] it's something I didn't agree with.
[43:56.580 -> 44:02.020] And, uh, so I've learned to try to, to understand
[44:02.020 -> 44:07.580] why a majority of voters voted for it.
[44:08.100 -> 44:10.980] It is not because they're wrong, right?
[44:11.460 -> 44:12.740] Even though I don't agree with it.
[44:13.000 -> 44:16.540] So what, what is it that is wanted?
[44:16.540 -> 44:20.100] What, why would someone come to the opinion that doing something that I think is the
[44:20.100 -> 44:22.200] wrong thing to do is the right thing to do.
[44:22.580 -> 44:24.620] And perhaps I'm, perhaps it is the right thing to do.
[44:24.620 -> 44:28.880] So what is the, what is the data that might come in that would say to me, well,
[44:28.880 -> 44:30.120] actually, no, I was wrong there.
[44:30.640 -> 44:35.720] I'm I'm I'd be again, and I'd be doubly delighted to be wrong on that, by the way.
[44:36.000 -> 44:38.640] B because I, I want the country to do well.
[44:39.080 -> 44:39.840] Cause I'm in it.
[44:40.360 -> 44:41.960] It's my, this is where I grew up.
[44:42.200 -> 44:45.920] So, so that, that's an example actually of where I am actually.
[44:45.920 -> 44:47.640] Although some people listen to this,
[44:47.640 -> 44:49.400] if they watch me on Twitter occasionally,
[44:49.400 -> 44:50.800] they'll go, or if it's called now,
[44:50.800 -> 44:53.520] we'll go, this is just not, it's not,
[44:53.520 -> 44:58.520] I'm looking for evidence that I'm not right
[44:58.760 -> 45:01.920] and there's a route to a better future
[45:01.920 -> 45:04.880] through outside of the European Union.
[45:04.880 -> 45:06.080] That would be an example.
[45:06.080 -> 45:11.120] And we talked in great detail about, you know, holding beliefs lightly, looking to push the
[45:11.120 -> 45:16.920] boundaries, being humbled by what is around us, being okay with failure because failure
[45:16.920 -> 45:17.920] is growth.
[45:17.920 -> 45:22.800] And I hear you talk often on these kinds of subjects because this is your area of expertise
[45:22.800 -> 45:24.120] and you're amazing at it.
[45:24.120 -> 45:29.280] But I don't hear you very often talk about how that informs your life as a father.
[45:29.280 -> 45:34.860] I'd love to hear what you say to your boy about keeping him going in the right direction
[45:34.860 -> 45:35.860] or the things that you share.
[45:35.860 -> 45:43.160] Well, I say that it is so unlikely. First of all, it's unlikely that you exist, which
[45:43.160 -> 45:51.400] is a big point and it's kind of obvious, but secondly, it's quite unlikely that you exist in a time and in a place
[45:51.980 -> 45:57.140] where you can actually, in his case, spend the time learning how to play guitar, if
[45:57.140 -> 45:57.920] that's what you want to do.
[45:58.380 -> 45:59.620] It's astonishing.
[46:00.260 -> 46:07.960] And so it would be ridiculous if you just, you just didn't find anything, didn't do anything,
[46:07.960 -> 46:13.760] you know, just coasted through life not noticing that you're fortunate.
[46:13.760 -> 46:18.460] In a very profound sense, by the way, you're even fortunate to exist.
[46:18.460 -> 46:26.720] And also, I think in scientific terms, actually, it seems to me that we live in this baffling, astonishing
[46:26.720 -> 46:28.960] and beautiful universe.
[46:28.960 -> 46:37.160] And it seems to me that not making any attempt to understand it in some way, and it might
[46:37.160 -> 46:40.880] be understanding it in different, it doesn't have to be doing mathematics and doing physics,
[46:40.880 -> 46:47.520] but just notice something is worth pursuing and being interested in.
[46:47.520 -> 46:53.560] I think that's the foundation actually, and just notice that there's something worth being
[46:53.560 -> 46:55.640] excited about, whatever it is.
[46:55.640 -> 47:00.680] I think that's why you do so much of what you do. Many people would be successful and
[47:00.680 -> 47:10.680] write a book and stop, or do a bunch of TV shows and think I've done enough of that. You don't stop and you know doing live experiences for people I know is something
[47:10.680 -> 47:15.000] that you're really passionate about. I wonder whether it's that's if we talk about you know
[47:15.000 -> 47:19.760] we mentioned passion I wonder whether for you it really is just igniting fires inside
[47:19.760 -> 47:21.760] people to go and explore.
[47:21.760 -> 47:26.160] Yeah and also me actually so I like curves, which I haven't really talked about.
[47:26.360 -> 47:28.600] So I like,
[47:28.800 -> 47:31.200] like I'm doing live shows.
[47:31.400 -> 47:35.160] I've done these big live shows kind of on my own with my friend Robin Inson,
[47:35.360 -> 47:36.200] who's a comedian.
[47:36.400 -> 47:39.640] And but now I'm doing some live shows with a symphony orchestra.
[47:39.840 -> 47:42.800] We did Sydney, Sydney Opera House in December.
[47:43.000 -> 47:47.980] And it came up, the opportunity, and there's a great conductor,
[47:47.980 -> 47:51.280] actually, Ben Northey, who's a conductor in Australia and New Zealand.
[47:51.880 -> 47:56.440] And he had said to me, there's this music it's Strauss.
[47:56.440 -> 48:01.880] So, so the, everyone knows the start of 2001, you know, that thing, the start.
[48:02.200 -> 48:06.800] Well, that's part of a 20 odd minute piece of music and no one ever listens to the rest of it.
[48:07.520 -> 48:28.640] But the music is based on a book by Nietzsche and Nietzsche's book is about the way Ben said it to me is, is how can humanity justify our existence when faced with the power and infinite scale of nature? How can we justify it? And
[48:28.640 -> 48:33.080] so this piece of music is an exploration of that thought. It was written just at the turn
[48:33.080 -> 48:38.640] of the 20th century, a hundred years ago or more. But it's an exploration of that idea,
[48:38.640 -> 48:46.620] but musically based on this philosophy by work by Nietzsche, a famous book. And so I thought the challenge of taking
[48:46.620 -> 48:51.480] that music and weaving in a narrative of cosmology and astronomy and what we know about the size
[48:51.480 -> 48:55.840] and scale of the universe, which Nietzsche and Strauss didn't know, that they wrote this.
[48:55.840 -> 49:03.120] It's astonishing. We're talking about, let's say 1900, that sort of area just before. We
[49:03.120 -> 49:05.560] didn't even know there were any galaxies beyond our own.
[49:05.560 -> 49:07.960] We didn't know that until the 1920s.
[49:07.960 -> 49:09.600] It's unbelievable.
[49:09.600 -> 49:14.680] So the context has changed completely in what we know about the size and scale of the universe.
[49:14.680 -> 49:16.680] So there's something more to be said.
[49:16.680 -> 49:21.240] There's a dialogue between those ideas and that music and the things we know today and
[49:21.240 -> 49:23.340] the latest images of the universe.
[49:23.340 -> 49:24.340] Something will come out of it.
[49:24.340 -> 49:25.840] There's something interesting that will happen.
[49:25.840 -> 49:26.880] It's really exciting.
[49:26.880 -> 49:29.880] Well, let's dive into this learning curve thing then.
[49:29.880 -> 49:32.840] So someone says to you, look at this amazing piece of music, have a listen to it.
[49:34.320 -> 49:40.000] How involved do you get helping to turn that into an event for thousands of people
[49:40.000 -> 49:41.040] at the Sydney Opera House?
[49:41.080 -> 49:42.080] What's the process for you?
[49:42.160 -> 49:46.920] Well, so then I sit there and I sit and I listen to it again and again and
[49:46.920 -> 49:51.600] again. And it's another thing actually we could talk about, have patience. So don't
[49:51.600 -> 49:55.120] think, oh no, I've sat here now, I've listened to it twice and I don't know what,
[49:55.200 -> 49:59.040] I don't know what to do. So I'm just confused. So let's not do that. I just keep
[49:59.040 -> 50:07.080] going. And at some point then something occurs to me and I say, actually that this image that the
[50:07.080 -> 50:10.760] James Webb space telescope took of a stellar nursery, for example, the stars
[50:10.760 -> 50:14.480] being born, and if you put it against that bit of music, then it kind of says
[50:14.480 -> 50:15.180] something else.
[50:15.180 -> 50:18.320] It says something about things being born and the life cycle of stars.
[50:18.320 -> 50:20.000] And that's a bit like the life cycle of a human.
[50:20.420 -> 50:23.080] And you can start to make connections.
[50:23.560 -> 50:27.860] And, and that, that's what I want out of that collaboration.
[50:28.360 -> 50:33.680] I want there to be something that emerges that wasn't really obvious in the music
[50:33.680 -> 50:37.320] and wasn't obvious in the science, but somewhere in a conversation between those
[50:37.320 -> 50:41.760] different art forms, something may occur, which will be interesting.
[50:42.280 -> 50:46.120] And it's, and then you have to have patience to say, I'm not going to rush this.
[50:46.120 -> 50:47.840] I'm just going to find it.
[50:47.880 -> 50:50.800] The one thing I get impatient about actually is when, when I
[50:50.800 -> 50:54.000] have to do all this stuff, if I get really into something, I
[50:54.000 -> 50:55.320] don't want to do anything else.
[50:55.860 -> 50:57.280] So I just suddenly it's boring.
[50:57.440 -> 50:59.860] The other thing is boring now because I want to do, I just
[50:59.860 -> 51:03.580] want to sit there with Strauss and Nietzsche and the Hubble
[51:03.580 -> 51:05.680] space telescope and come up with
[51:05.680 -> 51:10.240] something. I'm now interested in that, so I can't be bothered doing the other stuff.
[51:10.240 -> 51:15.600] For me, the lesson is it's about being confident that if you keep at it, so it goes back to
[51:15.600 -> 51:20.800] what we said earlier, you keep at it and that can be when you need some creative spark.
[51:20.800 -> 51:26.240] If you keep going, it'll come. right? So at some point you'll have the idea.
[51:26.240 -> 51:31.680] Yeah. But let's explore that topic of patience because we do live in a world of super fast
[51:31.680 -> 51:38.080] speeds, quick opinions, you know, instant access to whatever we want. So the idea of
[51:38.080 -> 51:41.960] sometimes accepting that it's going to be slower than we want it to be, or we have to
[51:41.960 -> 51:48.400] be comfortable with the discomfort of not knowing. What have you learned about patience that you could share with us?
[51:48.400 -> 51:55.600] Well that you can't, there's no magic formula to having an idea or indeed being good at something as we spoke about earlier.
[51:55.600 -> 51:58.400] There isn't a magic formula, it is time.
[51:58.400 -> 52:03.800] And I think quite often you have to let your head become filled with ideas.
[52:03.800 -> 52:07.960] And then just trust that at some point
[52:07.960 -> 52:09.760] something will come out of it.
[52:09.760 -> 52:15.160] So I think, and I'm well aware by the way, we talked about luck earlier, also having
[52:15.160 -> 52:19.600] the time to be patient is a luxury.
[52:19.600 -> 52:21.840] Can I ask you about doubt?
[52:21.840 -> 52:26.360] Because we did a UK tour and it was racked with doubt for the two of us. Would
[52:26.360 -> 52:30.480] people come? Would people like it? Would we mess up our words? Would there be value in
[52:30.480 -> 52:34.840] it? Would people laugh at us? Would they ask questions we can actually answer during the
[52:34.840 -> 52:40.400] Q&A part of the show? Like, what's your relationship with doubt? Because a good example is the
[52:40.400 -> 52:44.480] Sydney Opera House and some amazing music. I'd immediately be thinking, am I worthy?
[52:44.480 -> 52:45.240] Am I going to deliver? is the Sydney Opera House and some amazing music, I'd immediately be thinking, am I worthy?
[52:45.240 -> 52:46.240] Am I going to deliver?
[52:46.240 -> 52:47.240] How do you do that?
[52:47.240 -> 52:48.240] Tom Clougherty Yeah.
[52:48.240 -> 52:52.160] It, well, the first thing to say is that it goes back to what we said earlier about being
[52:52.160 -> 52:54.660] not tricking yourself.
[52:54.660 -> 53:01.540] So only I will know whether when I walk out onto the stage, I'm satisfied with what I've
[53:01.540 -> 53:03.840] come up with, what I'm going to say.
[53:03.840 -> 53:07.480] Only I will know if those images and the things that I've done, they're going to be on the
[53:07.480 -> 53:09.800] big screens, the right images.
[53:10.200 -> 53:11.280] And it's, it's up to me.
[53:11.280 -> 53:13.440] So I take responsibility.
[53:13.440 -> 53:19.760] So by the time I walk out on the stage, I will have made sure that I am happy with what
[53:19.760 -> 53:20.360] I'm going to do.
[53:21.000 -> 53:22.720] And that, that's, that's important, I think.
[53:23.160 -> 53:25.400] But also the, again, Feynman, I remember
[53:25.400 -> 53:29.600] this great quote at the end of it, he wrote a brilliant essay called the value of science,
[53:29.600 -> 53:33.600] which I recommend to everyone. It's about three pages. It's online. And at the end is
[53:33.600 -> 53:39.560] a quote where he says, what we have to learn is how doubt is not to be feared, but welcomed
[53:39.560 -> 53:46.760] and discussed. Right? So doubt is not to be feared, but welcomed and discussed, which I think is profoundly
[53:46.760 -> 53:47.760] important, actually.
[53:47.760 -> 53:48.760] How do you do that?
[53:48.760 -> 53:57.040] By, I think, as I said, accepting that clearly you, you, everybody's taking risks all the
[53:57.040 -> 54:03.000] time, but as long as, if you're happy that you've done everything you can and you're
[54:03.000 -> 54:10.540] happy with where you've got to, then walking out onto a stage shouldn't be a, shouldn't be an issue.
[54:10.540 -> 54:13.260] If you think there's nothing more I can do here, right?
[54:13.260 -> 54:14.260] I've done it.
[54:14.260 -> 54:15.260] I think this is what I want to say.
[54:15.260 -> 54:17.020] I know what I want to say.
[54:17.020 -> 54:18.020] And then, and then you're right.
[54:18.020 -> 54:22.580] If people don't get it, then what you should do is learn.
[54:22.580 -> 54:23.680] Okay.
[54:23.680 -> 54:26.960] And I'm always, I don't know about your live shows, but I, I'm always learning.
[54:26.960 -> 54:30.360] You always do something in one night and it doesn't work.
[54:30.640 -> 54:32.660] And what's your attention to detail like on these shows?
[54:32.660 -> 54:34.800] How involved are you in the various elements?
[54:34.980 -> 54:35.740] Oh, completely.
[54:35.740 -> 54:40.640] I mean, I, because, because of this process, I would not, I would not be
[54:40.640 -> 54:48.480] confident walking and I can't actually say with TV shows, actually, I'm really bad at doing a piece to camera
[54:48.480 -> 54:53.560] where on, you know, in the cliched world on top of the mountain, right.
[54:53.560 -> 54:55.120] With a helicopter shot.
[54:55.120 -> 54:59.520] And I'm really bad at it if I'm trying to say something that someone else wrote for
[54:59.520 -> 55:00.520] me.
[55:00.520 -> 55:05.940] But what I can do is if I know what I want to say and I say it, then, then I can say
[55:05.940 -> 55:11.420] it in, in, with, with sufficient eloquence for it to be okay in work, you know, broadcastable
[55:11.420 -> 55:13.420] as we always say, we always say, is that broadcastable?
[55:13.420 -> 55:14.420] Yeah, it's all right.
[55:14.420 -> 55:15.420] Let's go to the pub.
[55:15.420 -> 55:16.420] Broadcastable.
[55:16.420 -> 55:20.780] So, so that's what, uh, the way that I work, I have to, I have to know what I'm going to
[55:20.780 -> 55:23.500] say with a point I want to make.
[55:23.500 -> 55:26.400] And then I, I can say it in my own way.
[55:26.400 -> 55:29.160] What I can't do is learn line.
[55:29.160 -> 55:30.160] I just can't do it.
[55:30.160 -> 55:33.280] I asked Patrick Stewart, well, it's a bit name dropping, but he'd been on our Infinite
[55:33.280 -> 55:34.280] Monkey Cage show.
[55:34.280 -> 55:39.520] Sir Patrick Stewart, you know, and I asked him about Shakespeare because I was interested
[55:39.520 -> 55:43.840] in this, but how do you, you know, King Lear or something, how do you know, how are you
[55:43.840 -> 55:45.880] confident that you walk out on stage?
[55:46.480 -> 55:51.040] And he said, you have to learn the thing and it can be, you know, a huge
[55:51.040 -> 55:56.440] Shakespearean role and then you have to forget it, but you have to be confident.
[55:56.880 -> 56:00.980] That if you think about the way you speak now, so I'm speaking to you, I don't
[56:00.980 -> 56:04.480] know what I'm going to say next, but I'm very confident that whatever it is, it's
[56:04.480 -> 56:05.520] going to make sense, right I'm very confident that whatever it is, it's going to make sense.
[56:05.520 -> 56:06.520] Right.
[56:06.520 -> 56:07.520] Otherwise I just shut up.
[56:07.520 -> 56:11.760] So that's the way if you, and now I'll start, because if you start thinking for a moment,
[56:11.760 -> 56:12.760] you could do it at home.
[56:12.760 -> 56:17.760] Now, next time you have a conversation, try and remember what you're going to say next.
[56:17.760 -> 56:19.000] And the whole thing collapses.
[56:19.000 -> 56:21.240] And he said, so it is with acting.
[56:21.240 -> 56:25.320] If you say a line and they go, right, what's the next line? Then it will all fall to bits.
[56:25.600 -> 56:28.240] And so you have to be confident that the line will come.
[56:28.720 -> 56:31.600] And I thought that's an incredible, that's confidence, isn't it?
[56:31.640 -> 56:34.160] But what a skill, but it's also practice.
[56:34.360 -> 56:37.760] Obviously that's his job and that's the way he does it.
[56:38.000 -> 56:41.320] It's actually interesting when I have direct, because they'll sometimes go,
[56:41.680 -> 56:43.880] that's great, but you, could you just say it again with this
[56:43.880 -> 56:49.200] different arrangement of words? And I just, I was great, but you could you just say it again with this different arrangement of words and I say it's like no I can't I it'll just it's not I'm not being a
[56:49.720 -> 56:54.960] Difficult I just I can't because then I've got to think about it and then it'll fall to bits. I'm not I can't do that
[56:54.960 -> 57:01.600] I'm not good enough at that as a scientist. That's always open to the possibility of new information new evidence
[57:02.160 -> 57:06.080] Challenging your view. How do you get comfortable with just being good enough?
[57:06.840 -> 57:09.520] Like where you leave, you leave something and just walk away.
[57:09.520 -> 57:11.960] You're not constantly trying to refine it.
[57:12.040 -> 57:14.560] So like the show that you're doing in Sydney.
[57:14.560 -> 57:18.360] It's a great question that, because the, the other thing which we haven't talked
[57:18.360 -> 57:22.440] about in, in, uh, let's say creative industries, writing a book or piece of
[57:22.440 -> 57:26.920] music, being in a band, writing a song is actually finishing it.
[57:26.920 -> 57:27.920] And it's the same in science.
[57:27.920 -> 57:34.400] It's the, I often say to students who want to do a PhD, I think doing a PhD is wonderful
[57:34.400 -> 57:39.540] that you grow intellectually and as a person hugely because you have to produce a new piece
[57:39.540 -> 57:44.520] of research, but you've got to write a thesis and that's, so you've got to stop and you've
[57:44.520 -> 57:45.080] got to write this thing, which is new knowledge, a contribution to knowledge, and you've got to write a thesis and that's, so you've got to stop and you've got to write
[57:45.080 -> 57:49.440] this thing, which is new knowledge, a contribution to knowledge, and you've got to know when
[57:49.440 -> 57:50.920] to do it and you've got to finish it.
[57:50.920 -> 57:52.240] And that's the hardest bit of all.
[57:52.240 -> 57:56.040] And actually in the bands I've been in, the great songwriters, Peter Cunner from D Ream,
[57:56.040 -> 58:03.120] for example, the band I was in, he was, would say this, the craft, some of it's inspiration,
[58:03.120 -> 58:04.120] right?
[58:04.120 -> 58:06.160] And you see, you have a little, you write a great thing.
[58:06.160 -> 58:07.240] Things can only get better, right?
[58:07.240 -> 58:10.920] You get this great thing in your head, but turning that into a four minute pop
[58:10.920 -> 58:12.840] song is the professional bit.
[58:13.080 -> 58:13.880] It's the craft.
[58:14.320 -> 58:17.960] So you're right that you've got to, you've got to stop and
[58:18.040 -> 58:20.840] produce something at some point.
[58:21.440 -> 58:23.160] And that, that's a judgment call.
[58:23.160 -> 58:26.160] I think I, you know, we'll all know in our lives, you
[58:26.160 -> 58:29.680] know, that there are things where you just keep going, that little project and you never
[58:29.680 -> 58:34.080] quite do it, you never finish it. So I agree that's a skill. You've got to discipline that.
[58:34.080 -> 58:35.080] You've got to do it.
[58:35.080 -> 58:37.360] So what's your cutoff then? Like what do you have?
[58:37.360 -> 58:40.080] It's usually that we've sold the tickets for this gig.
[58:40.080 -> 58:46.960] Right, okay, so it's happening tomorrow. Is there any other methods that he used? Yeah. I don't like the pressure.
[58:47.380 -> 58:52.440] I, I like a deadline, but I don't like the pressure of the deadline.
[58:52.920 -> 58:57.360] So I tend to try and overwork on it early.
[58:58.120 -> 59:01.360] And I always did this actually in doing exams at university as well.
[59:01.360 -> 59:01.680] I did.
[59:02.000 -> 59:03.840] I wasn't one of those persons who liked it.
[59:03.860 -> 59:12.600] I didn't like to cram it all in. I like to be relaxed. So I like the deadline in three months time.
[59:12.600 -> 59:16.520] And then I will do most of the work in the first month. Actually, that's the way that
[59:16.520 -> 59:21.620] I work because then it gets better. Then you get the great ideas when the pressure's off.
[59:21.620 -> 59:27.040] When you've got the framework and you're okay, right, I've got it, that'll work, then it gets a lot better.
[59:27.040 -> 59:32.840] We're about to do our quickfire questions. Before we do, one of the common traits we've
[59:32.840 -> 59:38.360] found on this podcast is optimism. High performers tend to be optimists. No matter what's happened
[59:38.360 -> 59:47.080] today, yesterday, they think tomorrow is going to be great. You know so much about the universe, as you've admitted,
[59:47.080 -> 59:51.960] you know so little about the universe as everybody does. Where are you regarding our future?
[59:51.960 -> 59:53.460] Are you optimistic?
[59:53.460 -> 01:00:01.000] Yes. We obviously, we've avoided destroying ourselves so far. Yeah, I'm worried about
[01:00:01.000 -> 01:00:08.480] it because I'm worried that it seems to me that our political debate has
[01:00:08.480 -> 01:00:14.720] become extremely polarized in a way that really matters, particularly in the United States,
[01:00:14.720 -> 01:00:26.640] actually, where it's very important that that country stays stable. And, uh, so I'm worried about that. And I, and you see it here to an extent.
[01:00:26.640 -> 01:00:35.360] And so, although actually I, you know, we seem to be handling it quite well in this country. I mean,
[01:00:35.360 -> 01:00:39.760] we don't usually give credit to our political system, but it seems to be dealing with quite
[01:00:39.760 -> 01:00:46.760] an upheaval, particularly starting with, with, with the Brexit referendum and those things, it seems to be dealing with it.
[01:00:46.760 -> 01:00:51.440] Um, so yeah, so I'm worried.
[01:00:51.440 -> 01:00:55.120] And one of the reasons I'm worried, actually, I was asked to give a talk at the COP climate
[01:00:55.120 -> 01:01:00.240] summit in Glasgow just by video one minute, and they just, it was a little project and
[01:01:00.240 -> 01:01:04.400] they said, if you could say anything to the world leaders there, what would you say?
[01:01:04.400 -> 01:01:10.080] And I said just very simply that given what I know and given a lot of people I've spoken
[01:01:10.080 -> 01:01:16.980] to, it's possible that we're the only civilization in the Milky Way galaxy at the moment.
[01:01:16.980 -> 01:01:19.740] It's worth considering that might be the case.
[01:01:19.740 -> 01:01:24.260] And there are reasons we can go into about why that may be the case, but it's possible.
[01:01:24.260 -> 01:01:25.080] So if it's true, but it's possible. So if it's
[01:01:25.080 -> 01:01:31.680] true, imagine it's true, I think that if we're talking about the meaning of it all, as we
[01:01:31.680 -> 01:01:37.240] talked about earlier, what does it mean to be a human in this universe? Well, meaning
[01:01:37.240 -> 01:01:46.200] is a property of intelligence, I think. So clearly the universe means something to us. So meaning exists here. But if there's
[01:01:46.200 -> 01:01:53.040] no other intelligence out there in our galaxy and we destroy ourselves, then we might eliminate
[01:01:53.040 -> 01:02:08.640] meaning in a galaxy of size responsibility how to.
[01:02:08.940 -> 01:02:16.700] Maintain meaning galaxy that's why it bothers me because i think that's true so i think i think what we do here.
[01:02:17.300 -> 01:02:24.680] Will have ramifications in that sense way beyond the shores of our own planet.
[01:02:30.640 -> 01:02:34.840] us way beyond the shores of our own planet. Because you know, you look at, to me, a lifeless world, a lifeless galaxy is a meaningless galaxy.
[01:02:34.840 -> 01:02:37.000] Steve There's something really powerful on that.
[01:02:37.000 -> 01:02:43.640] We were lucky enough to interview Tim Peake, who spoke about the overview effects of that
[01:02:43.640 -> 01:02:45.040] a lot of astronauts talk about
[01:02:45.040 -> 01:02:50.760] being able to see the world from outside the atmosphere gives you a sense of both
[01:02:50.760 -> 01:02:55.660] how small we are but also how magnificent life here is yeah on the
[01:02:55.660 -> 01:03:00.520] planet. You see with that I've been lucky to meet a lot of astronauts Apollo
[01:03:00.520 -> 01:03:09.040] astronauts as well who tended to be test pilots you know so they tended to be in those guys from the 60s and 70s, and they tended to be guys that's on
[01:03:09.040 -> 01:03:16.920] the Apollo astronauts were really focused on flying those things as aircraft. But yet
[01:03:16.920 -> 01:03:20.980] you're right, all of them, every single one that I've been lucky enough to meet said the
[01:03:20.980 -> 01:03:21.980] same thing.
[01:03:21.980 -> 01:03:30.160] Which at the moment you're off the earth and look at it against the blackness of space, you start to get a feeling that there's something really important here.
[01:03:30.800 -> 01:03:32.920] Way beyond everything else.
[01:03:33.060 -> 01:03:38.320] I did say once that, um, I thought it was when I don't know which prime minister,
[01:03:38.320 -> 01:03:39.760] I think it was Boris Johnson.
[01:03:39.760 -> 01:03:41.920] I said, I said, I think he should be sent into space.
[01:03:42.800 -> 01:03:52.320] And I actually meant, I didn't mean, I meant he should come back as well, but I think I would as a taxpayer, I would, I
[01:03:52.320 -> 01:03:53.200] would pay.
[01:03:54.080 -> 01:03:58.480] I've gladly a bit of my taxes went to, as soon as you became prime minister, you went
[01:03:58.480 -> 01:04:03.680] up on one of those, even the little suborbital hop, go up and have a look.
[01:04:03.920 -> 01:04:07.340] And I think it would be a very good use of money and then come back.
[01:04:07.340 -> 01:04:08.860] What an amazing conversation.
[01:04:08.860 -> 01:04:09.960] Thank you so much.
[01:04:09.960 -> 01:04:14.980] We finish with this, the three non-negotiable behaviors that you would like you and the
[01:04:14.980 -> 01:04:17.260] people around you to buy into.
[01:04:17.260 -> 01:04:27.340] So what Feynman said, doubt is not to be feared but welcomed. Humility in your general life but
[01:04:27.340 -> 01:04:35.540] also in the face of nature actually. And be absolutely delighted when you find out that
[01:04:35.540 -> 01:04:38.220] you're wrong. Those would be my three.
[01:04:38.220 -> 01:04:42.480] What advice would you give to a teenage Brian just starting out?
[01:04:42.480 -> 01:04:45.060] Don't wear that check suit when you're first on top of the pops.
[01:04:46.640 -> 01:04:47.760] What is your biggest weakness?
[01:04:48.040 -> 01:04:49.240] What is your greatest strength?
[01:04:50.780 -> 01:04:52.040] That's a good question, isn't it?
[01:04:52.080 -> 01:04:54.840] Um, cause, cause I don't feel comfortable
[01:04:54.840 -> 01:04:56.360] answering either of those questions cause
[01:04:56.360 -> 01:04:57.640] I haven't thought about it really.
[01:04:58.160 -> 01:05:09.520] Um, so weakness, I mean, probably, I mean, I do get, I do find it hard to make decisions,
[01:05:09.520 -> 01:05:13.720] which everyone who works with me professionally, especially people on the kind of more admin
[01:05:13.720 -> 01:05:18.600] side of my world say, God, can you just make your mind up?
[01:05:18.600 -> 01:05:25.040] I do tend to, especially difficult decisions, i tend to push.
[01:05:33.800 -> 01:05:33.920] Away you know i don't want to i don't want to annoy people so i don't want to disappoint people so i do have this.
[01:05:37.340 -> 01:05:37.600] Tendency cigar i'm not gonna do that.
[01:05:46.700 -> 01:05:46.740] I'm gonna tell him tomorrow i'm not gonna do it and that's it that's it and strength i think it's probably you mentioned optimism so i tend to do it. And that's a, that's a, and strength. I think it's probably, you mentioned optimism.
[01:05:51.660 -> 01:05:53.420] So I tend to be optimistic that, um, that there'll be, there'll be something interesting to do.
[01:05:53.840 -> 01:05:54.100] Yeah.
[01:05:54.160 -> 01:05:54.340] Yeah.
[01:05:54.340 -> 01:05:57.620] I'll find interesting things, things that interest me, learning
[01:05:57.620 -> 01:05:58.740] new learning curves.
[01:05:59.300 -> 01:06:01.060] Uh, so I tend to be quite optimistic.
[01:06:01.140 -> 01:06:04.180] And again, some people that know me say that it's a, it's a flaw
[01:06:04.180 -> 01:06:11.520] because it's, uh, it's probably over maybe overly optimistic, but, uh, you know, I think it's
[01:06:11.520 -> 01:06:14.160] a strength, a sense of possibility.
[01:06:14.160 -> 01:06:18.840] What do you think people most commonly get wrong or misunderstand about you?
[01:06:18.840 -> 01:06:23.560] It was funny that I got asked and I'll be, I don't want it to be identified it, but I
[01:06:23.560 -> 01:06:28.940] was asked it once, once upon a time, there was some, a political thing that a government
[01:06:28.940 -> 01:06:33.420] department asked me to go in and have a chat with them about something.
[01:06:33.420 -> 01:06:37.540] And I think they're expected to have this, this nice bloke off the telly.
[01:06:37.540 -> 01:06:38.780] You're just going to go, Oh, he's great.
[01:06:38.780 -> 01:06:39.780] The stars are nice, aren't they?
[01:06:39.780 -> 01:06:44.300] He'd rub it in to my friend as a great, yeah, look at that shiny light in the sky.
[01:06:44.300 -> 01:06:45.880] You know, that's it, that's me, right?
[01:06:45.880 -> 01:06:48.700] Shiny, nice, big smile.
[01:06:48.700 -> 01:06:52.840] And of course, you know, I kind of piled in on them on something about, you know, higher
[01:06:52.840 -> 01:06:54.440] education policy, whatever it was.
[01:06:54.440 -> 01:06:58.240] And I had some facts which threw them somewhat, you know, some data.
[01:06:58.240 -> 01:06:59.560] So look at this, look at this.
[01:06:59.560 -> 01:07:02.460] And it was about, and then the, and I didn't get asked back.
[01:07:02.460 -> 01:07:05.760] And they said that I got this years later,
[01:07:05.760 -> 01:07:07.960] actually, someone said to me, yeah, there was this word that went around that you're
[01:07:07.960 -> 01:07:09.360] intellectually aggressive.
[01:07:09.360 -> 01:07:10.360] Right.
[01:07:10.360 -> 01:07:12.880] So they didn't want me in the room, you know?
[01:07:12.880 -> 01:07:18.600] And so I think sometimes people think that I'm very, very, very, very nice.
[01:07:18.600 -> 01:07:22.800] Like I just sit there and look at the sky and think nice thoughts.
[01:07:22.800 -> 01:07:28.280] But of course also, you know, I was trained, you know, as an academic, that's what I did,
[01:07:28.280 -> 01:07:29.280] physics.
[01:07:29.280 -> 01:07:33.840] And it's, as we said earlier, it's quite a brutal profession.
[01:07:33.840 -> 01:07:36.800] You're trying to get to the bottom of how nature works.
[01:07:36.800 -> 01:07:40.560] And so there's not a lot of room for just sort of floating around being nice.
[01:07:40.560 -> 01:07:43.000] You're trying to understand stuff.
[01:07:43.000 -> 01:07:51.840] So I think it takes people by surprise sometimes if someone's asking me in a private setting for example for some opinion on education
[01:07:51.840 -> 01:07:55.680] policy or whatever it is, then sometimes it takes them by surprise that I'm not quite
[01:07:55.680 -> 01:07:58.240] as fluffy and nice as they thought.
[01:07:58.240 -> 01:08:03.120] I love that, I don't believe it, I think it's lovely. We have a high performance book club,
[01:08:03.120 -> 01:08:09.000] we've got tens of thousands of members, they love discussing books on there. Obviously you can't mention your own because
[01:08:09.000 -> 01:08:13.040] that's against the rules, but what would be the book that you would love to throw into
[01:08:13.040 -> 01:08:15.840] the mix for the high performance book club?
[01:08:15.840 -> 01:08:28.640] There's a great book, I mean there are a lot of books books that recently, there's a couple of books by a great physicist
[01:08:28.640 -> 01:08:34.640] friend of mine called Sean Carroll that I really like on the origins of life, meaning
[01:08:34.640 -> 01:08:35.640] of the universe itself.
[01:08:35.640 -> 01:08:38.440] It's called The Big Picture, The Big Picture by Sean Carroll.
[01:08:38.440 -> 01:08:42.760] And it's a really great sort of wander through a lot of the things we've spoken about actually
[01:08:42.760 -> 01:08:43.760] today.
[01:08:43.760 -> 01:08:45.160] So I think that's a really, a very good book.
[01:08:45.160 -> 01:08:46.160] Matthew 15
[01:08:46.160 -> 01:08:47.160] Lovely.
[01:08:47.160 -> 01:08:48.160] Jason
[01:08:48.160 -> 01:08:49.560] He had another great book, which is a bit, but also it's called something deeply hidden
[01:08:49.560 -> 01:08:52.960] and it's one of my favorite quotes. And I say, I do it in my live show. Actually it's
[01:08:52.960 -> 01:08:59.080] an Einstein quote. And it's Einstein said that if you pay attention to nature, really
[01:08:59.080 -> 01:09:02.980] and pay attention and keep going and try to understand something and keep pulling the
[01:09:02.980 -> 01:09:05.880] intellectual threads, everything we've spoken about today.
[01:09:05.880 -> 01:09:08.000] If you do that and you're persistent
[01:09:08.000 -> 01:09:10.120] and also lucky and fortunate,
[01:09:10.120 -> 01:09:12.360] there's a chance that you can catch a glimpse
[01:09:12.360 -> 01:09:14.560] of something deeply hidden,
[01:09:14.560 -> 01:09:17.280] which is the deep structure of nature.
[01:09:17.280 -> 01:09:19.960] But it applies across all disciplines.
[01:09:19.960 -> 01:09:21.160] Something deeply hidden,
[01:09:21.160 -> 01:09:23.200] that's what everyone's looking for.
[01:09:23.200 -> 01:09:25.800] What's the best piece of advice you've ever received and why?
[01:09:26.100 -> 01:09:39.100] I think it probably was during my time as an undergraduate and postgraduate when it was don't beat yourself up if you can't understand something.
[01:09:39.200 -> 01:09:50.100] But don't stop just keep going go at your own pace we saw that a few, go at your own pace. We've spoken about that a few times actually. Just go at your own pace and just trust that if you keep going, then at some
[01:09:50.100 -> 01:09:54.960] point you'll understand it. And I think that's very good advice.
[01:09:54.960 -> 01:09:59.440] I love that. And the final message for the people who have listened to this conversation
[01:09:59.440 -> 01:10:02.960] today which has been fascinating. What would you love to leave ringing in their ears? We
[01:10:02.960 -> 01:10:07.120] term it your one golden rule for a high performance life.
[01:10:07.120 -> 01:10:14.800] I think it's, it's persistence. I think given luck that we've spoken about, spoken about
[01:10:14.800 -> 01:10:21.840] where, if you really want to get good at something, then be, be persistent.
[01:10:21.840 -> 01:10:26.320] Love it. Thank you so much.
[01:10:28.000 -> 01:10:34.200] Damien. Jake. I think that you look at Brian from the outside and think this
[01:10:34.200 -> 01:10:37.640] guy must have the answer to everything. The magic of that conversation was he's
[01:10:37.640 -> 01:10:41.120] someone who hasn't got the answer to well to anything really because he's
[01:10:41.120 -> 01:10:56.000] constantly looking for new knowledge which I think is powerful. Yeah the humility cycle of starting by assuming that we don't know the answers and being open to new information, new evidences, new perspectives is where all great learning happens from.
[01:10:56.000 -> 01:11:02.000] And I think any of us, wherever we are, whatever we do, can take that and apply it to our advantage.
[01:11:02.000 -> 01:11:05.320] And I love the conversation turning around to the size
[01:11:05.320 -> 01:11:07.360] and scale of what's around us.
[01:11:07.360 -> 01:11:09.280] And I actually find that really grounding
[01:11:09.280 -> 01:11:11.200] because it's so easy for all of us to get caught up
[01:11:11.200 -> 01:11:13.240] in the tiny little minutiae of our lives
[01:11:13.240 -> 01:11:16.680] and the sort of little things every day that can derail us.
[01:11:16.680 -> 01:11:18.160] But as soon as we realize actually
[01:11:18.160 -> 01:11:22.480] that we are a tiny pinprick in the size
[01:11:22.480 -> 01:11:23.960] and the scale of the universe,
[01:11:23.960 -> 01:11:25.360] then I think it puts things in perspective to a certain extent. Yeah, and like we touched on at the end with him, brick in the size and the scale of the
[01:11:23.240 -> 01:11:27.400] universe, then I think it puts things in
[01:11:25.360 -> 01:11:29.040] perspective to a certain extent. Yeah and
[01:11:27.400 -> 01:11:31.040] like we touched on at the end with him,
[01:11:29.040 -> 01:11:33.760] the overview effect is it's a
[01:11:31.040 -> 01:11:35.600] psychological description of what many
[01:11:33.760 -> 01:11:38.360] astronauts go through there, but just the
[01:11:35.600 -> 01:11:41.280] ability to put your life in perspective
[01:11:38.360 -> 01:11:43.640] gives what many astronauts describe as a
[01:11:41.280 -> 01:11:46.320] sense of calm and almost a
[01:11:43.640 -> 01:11:47.040] transcendence to
[01:11:44.960 -> 01:11:49.720] getting caught up in the little things
[01:11:47.040 -> 01:11:51.400] is as a consequence of that. Now we might
[01:11:49.720 -> 01:11:53.480] not all be lucky enough to go into
[01:11:51.400 -> 01:11:55.960] space but we can all take that learning
[01:11:53.480 -> 01:11:58.560] and try and apply it and just see that
[01:11:55.960 -> 01:12:01.320] often when we give ourselves a sense of
[01:11:58.560 -> 01:12:03.080] perspective that's the best way and most
[01:12:01.320 -> 01:12:04.760] effective way of overcoming any
[01:12:03.080 -> 01:12:06.800] difficulties. And in terms of his
[01:12:04.760 -> 01:12:08.460] broadcasting career I mean I love the fact that he can't share lines
[01:12:08.460 -> 01:12:13.720] written by somebody else because being a broadcaster is about being authentic, right? So he is
[01:12:13.720 -> 01:12:17.460] totally authentic which is why he's been so successful as a broadcaster. But I think the
[01:12:17.460 -> 01:12:23.200] other thing is we live in a world where people don't talk often enough about how hard you
[01:12:23.200 -> 01:12:25.100] need to work to be at the top
[01:12:25.100 -> 01:12:29.680] of your game and he was very clear with us that he has incredible attention to
[01:12:29.680 -> 01:12:34.480] detail, he looks at things really early on, gets them right, allows it to kind of
[01:12:34.480 -> 01:12:38.400] fester in his brain for a while to make it even better, like he doesn't stumble
[01:12:38.400 -> 01:12:42.600] into high performance, he carefully plans and plots his way towards it.
[01:12:42.600 -> 01:12:45.680] Yeah, but I'd encourage anyone listening to that
[01:12:45.680 -> 01:12:46.840] to go to the start of it,
[01:12:46.840 -> 01:12:49.600] of being comfortable with discomfort.
[01:12:49.600 -> 01:12:51.080] He's not rushing the process.
[01:12:51.080 -> 01:12:54.320] He accepts that it is a process that takes time
[01:12:54.320 -> 01:12:56.200] and we'll all go at our own speed
[01:12:56.200 -> 01:12:58.880] and our own pace to get there.
[01:12:58.880 -> 01:13:01.400] But you have to be comfortable with that.
[01:13:01.400 -> 01:13:02.280] I really enjoyed it, mate.
[01:13:02.280 -> 01:13:03.120] Thanks for your company.
[01:13:03.120 -> 01:13:05.760] Yeah, me too, thanks mate. Thank you, Brian. I really hope you enjoyed that. I really enjoyed it, mate. Thanks for you. Yeah, me too. Thanks, mate. Thank you, Brian.
[01:13:07.440 -> 01:13:10.200] I really hope you enjoyed that. Don't forget for an extended version,
[01:13:10.200 -> 01:13:12.040] download the high performance app right now.
[01:13:12.040 -> 01:13:14.280] You'll hear Brian talking about even more topics.
[01:13:14.280 -> 01:13:17.560] You can download the app for free from the app store and you've got a unique
[01:13:17.560 -> 01:13:21.600] access code. HPAPP will get you access.
[01:13:22.000 -> 01:13:24.920] You can also watch these conversations on YouTube as well.
[01:13:24.920 -> 01:13:25.200] Join the tens of millions of people who are absorbing the content there, will get you access. You can also watch these conversations on YouTube as well, join the
[01:13:25.200 -> 01:13:29.080] tens of millions of people who are absorbing the content there. But look, just huge thanks
[01:13:29.080 -> 01:13:33.900] to you for growing and sharing this podcast among your community. Please continue to spread
[01:13:33.900 -> 01:13:38.600] the learnings wherever you are in the world. Remember, there is no secret. It is all there
[01:13:38.600 -> 01:13:44.480] for you. So chase world-class basics. Don't get high on your own supply. Remain humble,
[01:13:44.480 -> 01:14:17.240] curious and empathetic. And we'll see you soon. These days, every new potential hire can feel like a high-stakes wager for your small business.
[01:14:17.240 -> 01:14:22.200] You want to be 100% certain that you have access to the best qualified candidates available.
[01:14:22.200 -> 01:14:25.080] That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs.
[01:14:25.080 -> 01:14:30.480] LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team, faster and for free.
[01:14:30.480 -> 01:14:34.760] Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com.
[01:14:34.760 -> 01:14:38.080] That's LinkedIn.com.
[01:14:38.080 -> 01:14:39.680] To post your job for free.
[01:14:39.680 -> 01:14:41.280] Terms and conditions apply.
[01:14:41.280 -> 01:14:44.680] Get ahead of postage rate increases this year with Stamps.com.
[01:14:44.680 -> 01:14:46.720] It's like your own personal post office.
[01:14:46.720 -> 01:14:51.320] Sign up with promo code program for a four-week trial plus free postage and a free digital
[01:14:51.320 -> 01:14:52.320] scale.
[01:14:52.320 -> 01:14:53.760] No long-term commitments or contracts.
[01:14:53.760 -> 01:14:57.240] That's stamps.com code program.
[01:14:57.240 -> 01:15:02.000] Save big on the brands you love at the Fred Meyer 5 a.m. Black Friday sale.
[01:15:02.000 -> 01:15:05.200] Shop in-store on Black Friday for 50% off socks and underwear.
[01:15:05.200 -> 01:15:10.140] Board games and card games are buy one get one free. Save on great gifts for
[01:15:10.140 -> 01:15:14.940] everyone like TVs and appliances. And the first hundred customers on Black Friday
[01:15:14.940 -> 01:15:20.560] will get free gift cards too. So shop Friday November 24th and save big. Doors
[01:15:20.560 -> 01:15:26.580] open at 5 a.m. so get there early. Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone.
[01:15:21.790 -> 01:15:24.430] Doors open at 5 a.m. so get there early.
[01:15:24.430 -> 01:15:28.350] Fred Meyer. Fresh for Everyone.