Making noise about bullying

Next week (20/11/2023) is Anti-Bullying Week, a scheme created by the Anti-Bullying Alliance to raise awareness and to prevent bullying.

Jake and Damian reflect on previous guest conversations they’ve had about bullying and share their own experiences. Author and inspiration speaker, Vex King, opens up about witnessing an assault on his family and the lasting impact it had on him. They also explore how you can be a bully without even knowing it, listening back to the conversation they had with Courtney Black.

They also explore the conversations had with Russell Kane, Pippa Grange and Ashley Cain and their experiences with bullying.

This conversation asks you to consider how you can change your actions for the better and help others who are suffering with the impacts of bullying.

Find more on Anti-Bullying Week here: https://anti-bullyingalliance.org.uk/anti-bullying-week-2023-make-noise-about-bullying

Learn more about JAAQ: https://jaaq.org/

Listen to the episodes mentioned:

Vex King: https://pod.fo/e/1227f6

Russell Kane: https://pod.fo/e/126451

Courtney Black: https://pod.fo/e/15a903

Ashley Cain: https://pod.fo/e/18aebc

Pippa Grange: https://pod.fo/e/10bc10

Download The High Performance App by clicking the link below and using the code: HPAPP https://www.thehighperformancepodcast.com/app-link

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

# Anti-Bullying Week: A Discussion on Bullying and Its Impact

## Introduction

- Anti-bullying week is an initiative aimed at raising awareness and preventing bullying.
- The episode explores conversations about bullying with various guests on the podcast.

## Personal Experiences with Bullying

- Jake and Damian reflect on their own experiences with bullying and share insights from previous guest conversations.
- Vex King recounts witnessing an assault on his family, highlighting the lasting impact of such experiences.
- The discussion emphasizes that bullying can occur even without the perpetrator's awareness.

## Examining Different Perspectives

- The podcast explores conversations with Russell Kane, Pippa Grange, and Ashley Cain, shedding light on their experiences with bullying.
- The episode encourages listeners to consider how they can change their actions for the better and support individuals affected by bullying.

## Key Points and Arguments

- Bullying can have profound and lasting effects on individuals, even beyond the immediate situation.
- It's important to recognize that bullying is not a sign of weakness but rather a normal human response to being treated with unkindness and disrespect.
- Sometimes, bullying can be a defense mechanism employed by individuals who feel insecure, lost, or lonely.
- Forgiveness and understanding can be powerful tools in moving forward from bullying experiences.

## Practical Advice and Resources

- The episode recommends seeking support and resources from organizations like JAAQ (Just Ask A Question) and Anti-bullying Alliance.
- Listeners are encouraged to explore the resources available on Jack.org for assistance with bullying and other challenges.
- LinkedIn Jobs is highlighted as a valuable platform for small businesses to find qualified candidates, helping them make informed hiring decisions.

## Conclusion

- The episode emphasizes the importance of kindness and dignity in human interactions.
- It encourages listeners to challenge cultural norms that promote bullying and to support those affected by it.
- The overall message conveyed is that bullying is a serious issue that requires collective action to address and prevent.

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[02:43.560 -> 02:46.340] another episode of the High Performance Podcast. And today
[02:46.340 -> 02:52.060] we're talking about bullying because next week is anti-bullying week. And I'm here with
[02:52.060 -> 02:57.420] Professor Damien Hughes as always. And Damien, I remember really early on when me and you
[02:57.420 -> 03:01.860] were together, you gave me this brilliant line about resilience and kindness. And I've
[03:01.860 -> 03:04.900] always remembered that. I think maybe that's a nice way to start this conversation.
[03:04.900 -> 03:07.920] Damien Hughes Yeah. I think it calls off companies that say
[03:07.920 -> 03:11.940] we want to develop the resilience of our staff to be able to cope and my question
[03:11.940 -> 03:15.200] is is it resilience problem or a cultural problem because the point I
[03:15.200 -> 03:18.600] make is that I've never met anyone that needs to be resilient in the face of
[03:18.600 -> 03:22.480] being treated with kindness and dignity and respect I've met lots of people that
[03:22.480 -> 03:29.140] need to be resilient in the face of people being judgmental or harsh or too scathing on them and I think
[03:29.140 -> 03:34.880] that's an important point for us to remember for this that being bullied and
[03:34.880 -> 03:39.460] feeling wounded or sensitive about it isn't a sign of weakness on the part of
[03:39.460 -> 03:43.860] an individual. It's the sign that they're entirely human, that they have the
[03:43.860 -> 03:45.400] access to the full spectrum
[03:45.400 -> 03:48.960] of human emotions and it's entirely normal to feel that way.
[03:48.960 -> 03:55.080] So it's often that we're not lacking resilience, we're lacking being surrounded by kindness.
[03:55.080 -> 03:59.920] We've had many guests on the podcast who've talked about the topic of bullying.
[03:59.920 -> 04:00.920] Where should we begin?
[04:00.920 -> 04:08.360] Well, one of the most powerful examples we had was when we sat down with Vex King, we did it in front of a live audience at the O2 Indigo in
[04:08.360 -> 04:13.360] London and Vex spoke to us about how these experiences can be saved in our
[04:13.360 -> 04:17.760] memory. He recounted an example of bullying from the age of five. Let's
[04:17.760 -> 04:27.040] listen to the power of that. So I think I was around five years old and it's weird when people say you
[04:27.040 -> 04:34.160] remember that from such a young age but when there's so many
[04:34.160 -> 04:39.400] high-energy emotions there it's kind of hard to forget those things and
[04:39.400 -> 04:45.280] what I saw and I still remember it I mean it's quite blurry but I still Rwy'n gweld, ac rwy'n ei gofyn, mae'n llwyr iawn, ond rwy'n ei gofyn,
[04:45.280 -> 04:51.840] rwy'n gweld rhai fyrwyr yn dod allan o un o'r ffrigiau,
[04:51.840 -> 04:54.240] oherwydd roedden nhw'n ymladd yn y lle.
[04:54.240 -> 04:57.840] Mae gen i ddau ffrifi, felly mae gennym ni'r gynigedd o ddwy flynedd.
[04:57.840 -> 05:00.800] Felly, byddai fy mhagorion wedi bod yn nion,
[05:00.800 -> 05:03.840] ac byddai'r ffrifi'r cyfan wedi bod yn nion ar y pryd.
[05:03.840 -> 05:06.240] Roedd ddau fyrwyr yn ymgyrchu eu hau,
[05:06.240 -> 05:10.040] a phai arall yn ymgyrchu hau i fy mam a fy mam,
[05:10.040 -> 05:14.440] a ymgyrchu hau i fy oncle, sydd gyda gynnydd o ddau,
[05:14.440 -> 05:16.440] a'r dŵr i'w golygu.
[05:16.440 -> 05:20.440] Rwy'n edrych ar hyn, ac rwy'n ffyrdd o ffyrdd,
[05:20.440 -> 05:25.000] ond rwy'n ymdrech, ac rwy'n credu bod ffyrdd o ffyrdd yn ein defnyddio ar gyfer y bobl,
[05:25.000 -> 05:29.000] ac rwy'n eisiau gwneud rhywbeth, ond dydw i ddim yn gwybod pa allaf wneud.
[05:29.000 -> 05:34.000] Felly rwy'n mynd i'r ystafell gyda fy nghyfnodau,
[05:34.000 -> 05:37.000] ac rwy'n debyg dydw i ddim yn gwybod pa fyddwn i'n ei wneud, ond rwy'n mynd i wneud rhywbeth.
[05:37.000 -> 05:39.000] Ac yna mae fy mam yn gyfraith fy ngorff mewn gwirionedd,
[05:39.000 -> 05:41.000] ac mae ystyr y mae'r mawr i'w gynhyrchu'r plant,
[05:41.000 -> 05:45.560] ac mae'n mynd ymlaen, ac mae'n dweud, as instinct is to protect her child, so she runs across and she's just like, stay there, don't move.
[05:46.600 -> 05:49.000] And I go back up and I'm like,
[05:50.880 -> 05:53.020] I just don't know what I just witnessed.
[05:53.020 -> 05:56.440] And thankfully my uncle and my family were okay after that.
[05:57.320 -> 05:59.720] But I just felt like after that moment,
[05:59.720 -> 06:01.560] I was always on high alert.
[06:04.220 -> 06:08.080] Let's be really clear right at the beginning, I mean that story goes way beyond bullying,
[06:08.080 -> 06:12.560] you know, that's an assault and a robbery happening in Vex's home.
[06:12.560 -> 06:17.960] The reason why you felt that was relevant here is because actually whether it's something
[06:17.960 -> 06:23.920] as horrific as Vex's experience there, or whether it's just that kind of low grade,
[06:23.920 -> 06:25.640] persistent, constant Mickey taking and name calling at school, this does stay with people, there, whether it's just that kind of
[06:22.640 -> 06:28.440] low-grade, persistent, constant Mickey
[06:25.640 -> 06:30.160] taking and name-calling at school. This
[06:28.440 -> 06:31.400] does stay with people, doesn't it? They do
[06:30.160 -> 06:33.840] carry this for the rest of their lives.
[06:31.400 -> 06:36.080] Yeah, that old saying that sticks and
[06:33.840 -> 06:38.080] stones may break my bones but names will
[06:36.080 -> 06:40.320] never hurt me, isn't actually
[06:38.080 -> 06:42.280] psychologically true. There's research
[06:40.320 -> 06:44.640] from a psychologist called Naomi
[06:42.280 -> 06:46.080] Essenberger in America that has proven that
[06:46.080 -> 06:51.440] the impact on your brain is just as wounding when somebody is unkind to you, when somebody
[06:51.440 -> 06:57.640] excludes you, when somebody makes you feel violated in any way. That's just as powerful
[06:57.640 -> 07:02.840] as being punched in the mouth. And that's what Vex is describing there. Almost like
[07:02.840 -> 07:05.760] how horrific the scars that can often be left behind from bullying. And as you say, that's is describing there, almost like how
[07:02.880 -> 07:08.160] horrific the scars that can often be
[07:05.760 -> 07:09.960] left behind from bullying and as you say
[07:08.160 -> 07:11.920] that's a very extreme example that he
[07:09.960 -> 07:14.680] offers but I think we all need to be
[07:11.920 -> 07:16.280] aware of sometimes that the impacts of
[07:14.680 -> 07:20.200] our words that they can have on other
[07:16.280 -> 07:21.960] people and start to just consider it. Yeah
[07:20.200 -> 07:24.240] and I think you know not just assume
[07:21.960 -> 07:25.560] that none of us are bullies I think
[07:24.240 -> 07:28.480] everyone has this starting point well I'm not a bully, but I really look at the way you talk and
[07:28.480 -> 07:32.600] the things that you do and, you know, we've heard this theme numerous times on the podcast
[07:32.600 -> 07:33.600] from guests, haven't we?
[07:33.600 -> 07:38.080] Yeah, I mean, let's listen to another example of it from, again, a live show that we were
[07:38.080 -> 07:45.640] lucky enough to do with the brilliant comedian Russell Cain because sometimes
[07:42.880 -> 07:48.280] we think that well bullying can only be
[07:45.640 -> 07:50.720] happen outside the home but Russell
[07:48.280 -> 07:53.920] recounts a conversation with his dad
[07:50.720 -> 07:57.040] that again had was similarly wounding in its
[07:53.920 -> 07:58.960] effect. Let's have a listen to him.
[07:57.040 -> 08:01.240] Obviously I've moved out I'm living the high
[07:58.960 -> 08:02.680] life advertising and all that I've gone
[08:01.240 -> 08:04.440] like for Sunday lunch or something I
[08:02.680 -> 08:06.200] said I've done something crazy I'm gonna
[08:04.440 -> 08:05.840] do an amateur comedy night
[08:05.840 -> 08:07.280] It's in the diary for September
[08:07.280 -> 08:12.720] So you get my dad passed early September and this was late September and my dad didn't look up when I tried it once waste
[08:12.720 -> 08:14.720] of fucking time
[08:15.480 -> 08:19.320] Did he that's it that was the only comment that was ever passed it tried did try it
[08:19.320 -> 08:22.900] It was a red coat for a season. I was covered in birds. I fucking loved
[08:23.880 -> 08:25.760] We said I'm not saying it what he said. I'm not saying
[08:25.760 -> 08:29.920] it to be funny. I'm not spiritual. I wish I was. I'm jealous of those of you that have
[08:29.920 -> 08:36.000] belief. I genuinely mean that. But what a strange coincidence, because I obviously was
[08:36.000 -> 08:41.840] in the process of organising my dad's funeral. My brother by now had started to, as I describe it,
[08:41.840 -> 08:45.100] descend into darkness, was getting very ill. We've been sectioned twice
[08:45.100 -> 08:49.620] So I was trying to deal with my brother who obviously went completely, you know
[08:50.240 -> 08:56.040] Crazy when my dad went went like that suddenly so I was dealing with that dealing with my brother's mental health
[08:56.440 -> 09:00.300] Sitting on the steps of Enfield Council trying to get my brother house trying to deal with my mom
[09:00.400 -> 09:02.080] My dad died while they were on holiday
[09:02.080 -> 09:06.000] I had to organize dad get the body back and then my first gig came up right in the middle
[09:06.000 -> 09:06.820] of all that.
[09:06.820 -> 09:07.960] And I went through with it.
[09:09.640 -> 09:11.600] So that's a really powerful example
[09:11.600 -> 09:14.520] of how sometimes bullying can often be just
[09:14.520 -> 09:16.700] a casual dismissal of somebody.
[09:16.700 -> 09:20.720] Russell recounts how he shared that he's taken a great leap
[09:20.720 -> 09:21.560] into the unknown.
[09:21.560 -> 09:23.120] He's going after his dream.
[09:23.120 -> 09:30.040] And even his dad, whether it was said with the best of intentions, can, sometimes it can be just that casual dismissal
[09:30.040 -> 09:36.160] like he did there, that can wound us or deflate us and again it's a reminder to all of us
[09:36.160 -> 09:40.520] that words have the power to lift people but equally they have the power to deflate them
[09:40.520 -> 09:41.520] too.
[09:41.520 -> 09:43.120] Who would you like to hear from next?
[09:43.120 -> 09:47.580] Well let's listen to Courtney Black, the brilliant fitness influencer. So Courtney is a great
[09:47.580 -> 09:53.920] example of that quote that hurt people, hurt people. I couldn't understand why
[09:53.920 -> 09:57.760] someone couldn't think the way that I thought about food and I just remember I
[09:57.760 -> 10:01.240] made a cry and that was such a turning point in my career, I thought I never want
[10:01.240 -> 10:05.400] anyone to feel like that and I just thought why am I being so un-understanding?
[10:05.400 -> 10:10.400] And I could never understand how people didn't think the way that I thought.
[10:10.400 -> 10:14.740] And it was quite, it's quite an upsetting thing, but now I can look back and that made
[10:14.740 -> 10:17.400] me like the business person I am today.
[10:17.400 -> 10:23.360] And that made me help so many people today because I've learned from their mistakes.
[10:23.360 -> 10:28.000] Interesting I mean, it's worth actually just tackling this subject for a moment about the
[10:28.000 -> 10:32.760] the impact of bullying, positive, negative on someone's life. You know, me and you've
[10:32.760 -> 10:36.120] worked together now for the last three years and you'll know when we do stuff on stage
[10:36.120 -> 10:40.420] I often ask people in the audience to think about their collaborators. They'll often think
[10:40.420 -> 10:49.600] about the great boss or the brilliant parents or those wonderful friends. And I then remind them, you know, everyone's a collaborator in your life, including, you
[10:49.600 -> 10:53.440] know, people who've brought stress and anger and disappointment and sadness into your world.
[10:53.440 -> 10:57.200] And you know, I was bullied at school, as you know, and had to change schools in the
[10:57.200 -> 10:58.200] end.
[10:58.200 -> 11:00.720] It was like pretty horrific, to be honest.
[11:00.720 -> 11:04.120] But I see those people now as my collaborators.
[11:04.120 -> 11:05.560] I see they lit a fire in me. I see they lit a fire in me.
[11:05.560 -> 11:07.120] I see they built my resilience.
[11:07.120 -> 11:12.560] I mean, I remember so vividly watching my mom's car pull off each day and thinking,
[11:12.560 -> 11:15.280] I can't do this for another eight hours.
[11:15.280 -> 11:16.280] But then turning around and walking in.
[11:16.280 -> 11:20.320] And I'm not saying I want, you know, I abhor bullying.
[11:20.320 -> 11:21.680] I don't want anyone to go through it.
[11:21.680 -> 11:28.360] But I do now, from a personal level, I see the value to me of just having to keep going,
[11:28.360 -> 11:30.760] just having to walk in, just having to get through another day.
[11:30.760 -> 11:33.720] I wouldn't say I wish, I'm sort of glad it happened.
[11:33.720 -> 11:34.720] I'm not at that point.
[11:34.720 -> 11:38.680] But I can see the value in what I learned from it.
[11:38.680 -> 11:42.120] So what would you say was the biggest thing that you took away from it, Jake?
[11:42.120 -> 11:43.800] I think there's a couple of things.
[11:43.800 -> 11:46.880] The first one is that you're stronger than you think.
[11:46.880 -> 11:47.720] Like every day when you think,
[11:47.720 -> 11:48.880] I just can't do this again.
[11:48.880 -> 11:50.360] And then you get to the end of another day and you think,
[11:50.360 -> 11:53.560] okay, that's gone all right.
[11:54.920 -> 11:56.640] The sort of human resolve,
[11:56.640 -> 11:58.240] like I remember there was these two big buses
[11:58.240 -> 11:59.960] parked in the car park at the school,
[11:59.960 -> 12:01.160] this is a high school.
[12:01.160 -> 12:03.520] And I used to just go between them every lunch
[12:03.520 -> 12:05.000] and break time and just eat
[12:05.000 -> 12:06.720] my sandwiches between these two buses.
[12:06.720 -> 12:10.080] And I remember that feeling of safety when I was in there, like no one would know where
[12:10.080 -> 12:12.000] I was or whatever.
[12:12.000 -> 12:15.520] And it's ridiculous, there's no way to live when you're at school.
[12:15.520 -> 12:19.240] But I now look back and I think, bloody hell man, like you did that every day, found your
[12:19.240 -> 12:21.800] place, went there, you kept yourself safe and whatever.
[12:21.800 -> 12:26.180] So I like the resolve that I managed to find. And I
[12:26.180 -> 12:31.980] think the final thing is the power of forgiveness. Like sometimes I see pictures of those early
[12:31.980 -> 12:35.540] years of high school, we're talking year seven, year eight, and I look at the kids and I'm
[12:35.540 -> 12:40.820] like, they bullied me. Like they're tiny because of course they're tiny, they're 11, they're
[12:40.820 -> 12:45.000] 12 years old. And I've no hangups about them at all. They were little kids.
[12:45.000 -> 12:49.680] They weren't especially horrible or nasty kids.
[12:49.680 -> 12:54.440] They probably had some bad messaging at home, or they were a bit unhappy about various things,
[12:54.440 -> 12:57.320] or they just kind of got carried away with it and caught up with it.
[12:57.320 -> 12:59.200] But there's no anger now from me.
[12:59.200 -> 13:11.440] I just sort of, it's a good reminder at an early age that human beings can be a bit rough. Yeah, and you've spoken as well about how when you first went in the pit lane
[13:11.440 -> 13:15.840] in Formula One and you broadcast into millions that your mind went back to
[13:15.840 -> 13:21.620] those school days. Yeah. Did you think about those collaborators even then? Yeah
[13:21.620 -> 13:26.920] absolutely, you know I think that I've always thought about fate as like, life goes
[13:26.920 -> 13:30.680] by so fast that I've kind of really developed this mindset that every single thing that
[13:30.680 -> 13:36.480] happens is all part of what's going to happen. So you shouldn't discard any experience. You
[13:36.480 -> 13:39.440] know, I don't think we can just think that the good stuff that happens to us is useful
[13:39.440 -> 13:44.200] and the bad stuff is not very useful. If anything, it's arguably the other way around. And I
[13:44.200 -> 13:49.960] think the final thing that bullying gave me is an ability to like to connect with people because that
[13:49.960 -> 13:56.680] become like, I didn't, I never punched anyone back. So your only escape becomes almost like
[13:56.680 -> 14:01.440] charm them or to chat your way through it or to sort of banter your way through it and
[14:01.440 -> 14:06.880] find some common ground with someone really fast. So I think that's something that I've probably taken from that time.
[14:06.880 -> 14:10.720] You know, you can throw me into any room, anywhere with anyone and I'll try and connect
[14:10.720 -> 14:11.720] to them.
[14:11.720 -> 14:16.160] And I think that was at one time, that was like a survival or a safety thing, but it's
[14:16.160 -> 14:19.760] now really, really valuable actually in adult life, you know.
[14:19.760 -> 14:23.000] I think what you've described there, Jake, is what we've heard from other guests is just
[14:23.000 -> 14:25.500] the ability to reframe a situation and try and take the positives or see something valuable out of it. Yr hyn ydych chi wedi'i ddysgu yno, Jake, yw'r hyn rydyn ni wedi clywed o'r arferion eraill, dim ond y gallu i fframio sefyllfa
[14:25.500 -> 14:29.500] a chwilio'r cywirion neu gweld rhywbeth ddifrifol allan o'r cyfnod.
[14:29.500 -> 14:32.480] Mae hyn yn fy gofyn o'r sgwrs rydyn ni'n ei gael gyda Ashley Kane,
[14:32.480 -> 14:36.880] lle ddangosodd fy nghyfnod i'r ffras o'r ffras rydw i'n ei ddefnyddio.
[14:36.880 -> 14:40.380] Gadewch i ni gysylltu â'r sgwrs a byddwn ni'n siarad ychydig mwy o ddetail amdanyn nhw.
[14:42.280 -> 14:44.880] Pa oedd y bobl o'ch gwmpas chi, o'ch cymdeithas,
[14:44.880 -> 14:51.000] o'ch teulu a oedd wedi bod yno a gweld y dyn sy'n cael ei ffwrdd What were the people around you in your inner circle, your family that had been there and seen the kid that was being bullied and the lad that had gone through these difficulties?
[14:51.000 -> 14:55.000] Don't say bullied, but yeah, gone through a lot. Carry on, sorry, I'm only messing.
[14:55.000 -> 14:59.000] Yeah, no, no, no, it's an important distinction, but the lad that had been...
[14:59.000 -> 15:06.620] What did my family say? I'm used to fighting and I'm used to being in uncomfortable positions and I've been used to it since being a kid. I didn't want to go home and tell my nan and grandad
[15:06.620 -> 15:09.420] they're old you know I didn't want to put them under that kind of pressure
[15:09.420 -> 15:13.800] they wouldn't be ready for it. I was you know and I don't look back at that I
[15:13.800 -> 15:18.480] think that was bullying I don't look back at it and wish it never happened but the
[15:18.480 -> 15:22.660] life that I've had to live that was necessary.
[15:22.660 -> 15:25.600] See that to me was a really good way of somebody refusing to allow a label to Mae'n anodd. I mi, dyna oedd yn ffordd da iawn
[15:25.600 -> 15:28.640] o rywun yn ymwneud â'i alluogi i ddefnyddio nhw.
[15:29.280 -> 15:31.760] Felly, yr hyn a oedd wedi'i ddysgu i ni yn yr episodi
[15:31.760 -> 15:34.160] oedd pobl yn arwain allan o'i chwrdd ysgol
[15:34.160 -> 15:35.360] i'w ddod o'i gilydd
[15:35.360 -> 15:37.960] ar gyfer y ffyrdd o ffynion y mae'n ei ddangos
[15:37.960 -> 15:39.840] ac mae'n aml yn rhaid iddo ddod o'u gilydd
[15:39.840 -> 15:42.240] neu'n dod, neu weithiau fe wnaeth e'n dal a'i ffwrdd.
[15:42.240 -> 15:48.720] I mi, dyna oedd yr hyn rydw i'n ei ystyried fel bwriad ac er mwyn iddo ddod o'i gilydd dodge or sometimes he'd stay and fight and that to me was what I would categorize as bullying and yet he refused to allow himself to ever be seen
[15:48.720 -> 15:53.120] as being bullied. I think that's really powerful and I hope that this is
[15:53.120 -> 15:56.640] especially useful for maybe parents who are listening to this who've got a child
[15:56.640 -> 16:00.480] who's currently struggling with it or even an adult you know is suffering with
[16:00.480 -> 16:04.720] with bullying. I think the other thing is that I think we label people straight
[16:04.720 -> 16:10.240] away and it would've been so easy for Ashley Cain to label those people as nasty and people
[16:10.240 -> 16:13.760] who don't bully him as nice, right? The truth is human beings are more complex than that.
[16:13.760 -> 16:19.800] Like you are one of the nicest, kindest, calmest people I've ever met, right? But maybe we
[16:19.800 -> 16:24.160] should tell people a story about what you did when you were young because it would be
[16:24.160 -> 16:27.640] easy for the person on the receiving end of what went on to go, oh yeah that Damon Hughes, I've
[16:27.640 -> 16:32.520] heard him on a podcast, he's a bully. But that's the truth is you're not. But I think
[16:32.520 -> 16:36.640] when we share the story we can explain further that human beings are more complex than being
[16:36.640 -> 16:37.640] one thing or another.
[16:37.640 -> 16:40.200] Toby Yeah, so the example that you reference Jake
[16:40.200 -> 16:47.320] is so I grew up in a boxing gym and so I was around sort of what you'd regard as
[16:47.320 -> 16:52.520] quite an alpha sport for all my life and when I boxed I remember being in the
[16:52.520 -> 16:57.440] ring one day with a guy that I was overmatched with which means that I was
[16:57.440 -> 17:01.600] stronger faster and better than him and in that situation the convention in the
[17:01.600 -> 17:04.880] boxing gym was you go down to the level of your opponent and you help them you
[17:04.880 -> 17:07.480] coach them and teach them but I was 14
[17:07.480 -> 17:13.000] and an idiot and chose not to do that so I chose to exert my power over the guy
[17:13.000 -> 17:16.880] was fighting so I knocked him around a bit I sort of embarrassed him and
[17:16.880 -> 17:21.320] essentially did what they were calling boxing I took some liberties with him
[17:21.320 -> 17:25.000] and when I finished I felt pretty pleased with myself and as I went to roeddwn i'n mynd i fynd allan o'r rin, a'i dad yn mynd i'w stopio a'i arloeswyd i mi fod yn y rin
[17:25.000 -> 17:27.000] oherwydd doeddwn i ddim wedi gwneud llawer o weithiau.
[17:27.000 -> 17:29.000] Ac yna fe wnaeth e roi ychydig o fawr o fawrthof
[17:29.000 -> 17:30.000] ynghylch y bwysau yma
[17:30.000 -> 17:32.000] a chadarnhau'r 15 munud nesaf
[17:32.000 -> 17:33.000] i ddysgu i mi
[17:33.000 -> 17:35.000] y gwasanaeth mwyaf yr oeddwn i wedi'i gael.
[17:35.000 -> 17:36.000] Felly,
[17:36.000 -> 17:38.000] doedd e ddim yn fy nathu'n ffysigol,
[17:38.000 -> 17:39.000] ond yn ymdrechol
[17:39.000 -> 17:40.000] fe ddysgu i mi gwasanaeth.
[17:40.000 -> 17:41.000] Fe'i gwastraffo'n llawn
[17:41.000 -> 17:42.000] bob pwncio drwy'r fath
[17:42.000 -> 17:44.000] fe ddysgu i mi ddod o'r fyn.
[17:44.000 -> 17:45.000] Fe ddysgu i mi ddod o'r fyn fel ychydig o ffyn a', mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud,
[17:45.000 -> 17:46.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:46.000 -> 17:47.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:47.000 -> 17:48.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:48.000 -> 17:49.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:49.000 -> 17:50.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:50.000 -> 17:51.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:51.000 -> 17:52.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:52.000 -> 17:53.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:53.000 -> 17:54.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:54.000 -> 17:55.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:55.000 -> 17:56.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:56.000 -> 17:57.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:57.000 -> 17:58.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:58.000 -> 17:59.000] mae'n dweud,
[17:59.000 -> 18:00.000] mae'n dweud,
[18:00.000 -> 18:01.000] mae'n dweud,
[18:01.000 -> 18:02.000] mae'n dweud,
[18:02.000 -> 18:03.000] mae'n dweud,
[18:03.000 -> 18:04.000] mae'n dweud,
[18:04.000 -> 18:06.000] mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, maeri, a oeddwn i'n ymdrech. Ac roedd fy mab yn dod i mewn i mi a gofyn,
[18:06.000 -> 18:08.000] sut ydych chi'n teimlo? Ac roeddwn i ddim yn gallu
[18:08.000 -> 18:10.000] sôn yn dda, ac roedd e'n dweud, sut ydych chi'n teimlo
[18:10.000 -> 18:12.000] nawr, yw'r un peth rydych chi'n ei wneud i rhywun
[18:12.000 -> 18:14.000] 15 munud yn yr haes.
[18:14.000 -> 18:16.000] Ac roedd e'n dweud, dwi ddim byd yn ymdrech
[18:16.000 -> 18:18.000] fel hyn yn fyw yn eto.
[18:18.000 -> 18:20.000] Nawr, gallaf ddweud y stori hon, 30 oed
[18:20.000 -> 18:22.000] o blynyddoedd yn ôl, ac mae'n rhoi
[18:22.000 -> 18:24.000] fy nghyfnod yn y ddŵr ar y ddechrau fy nesaf,
[18:24.000 -> 18:27.000] a'r gofynion. Oherwydd, roedd yn gwasanaeth pwysig iaedd nesaf, ac mae'n rhoi'r haiau ar y ddechrau o'n gynnydd ac yn rhaid i mi ddod o'n. Oherwydd roedd y cwestiwn sy'n bwysig iawn yw
[18:27.000 -> 18:29.920] y byddwn i'n gallu cael ychydig o'n gynnydd
[18:29.920 -> 18:32.680] ac yn gallu gweld bywyd ymlaen ar ddiwedd ein hunain.
[18:32.680 -> 18:36.080] Gallwn fod yn ddiddorol a meddwl nad yw'n ymwneud â'r person
[18:36.080 -> 18:36.960] sy'n ei ddiddoroli yn ddiddorol,
[18:36.960 -> 18:40.120] ond ychydig amser mae'n ein ego'n mynd i'r ffordd.
[18:40.120 -> 18:43.320] Ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n defnyddio'n aml i mi,
[18:43.320 -> 18:47.040] y byddwn i'n ddiddorol o'r ddiddorol, And that's something that I often reflect on myself, that I hate injustice, I hate somebody using their power
[18:47.040 -> 18:51.200] to put somebody down as opposed to try to lift them up.
[18:51.200 -> 18:53.840] And you're right, and I think that's what brings us
[18:53.840 -> 18:56.480] to the final clip that is worth sharing here,
[18:56.480 -> 18:58.960] because it's often a reminder
[18:58.960 -> 19:02.280] that bullies are hurt people themselves.
[19:02.280 -> 19:03.560] Let's listen to a conversation
[19:03.560 -> 19:08.720] with the brilliant psychologist, Dr. Pippa Grange on this very topic.
[19:08.720 -> 19:14.360] How would you encourage anyone listening to this then to challenge that kind of
[19:14.360 -> 19:22.760] culture where uniformity or stripping people of their sense of uniqueness is
[19:22.760 -> 19:26.840] endemic? It's such a great point to bring up.
[19:26.840 -> 19:28.200] I agree with you about banter.
[19:28.200 -> 19:32.960] There's a real difference between wit and fun,
[19:32.960 -> 19:35.680] you know, but banter is quite often used
[19:35.680 -> 19:38.240] at somebody else's cost.
[19:38.240 -> 19:40.080] To exclude rather than to include.
[19:40.080 -> 19:41.480] Rather than to include, exactly.
[19:41.480 -> 19:44.720] It's got a barbed edge, as you say.
[19:44.720 -> 19:47.720] And, you know, you describe it as a defense of the dickhead,
[19:47.720 -> 19:50.020] and I would say it's a defense of the fearful.
[19:51.600 -> 19:54.720] So Pippa's description is far better than mine.
[19:54.720 -> 19:56.160] Yeah, they're both accurate.
[19:56.160 -> 19:57.160] They're both accurate.
[19:57.160 -> 19:59.480] But I think the point she makes
[19:59.480 -> 20:01.360] is a very interesting one, isn't it?
[20:01.360 -> 20:04.160] Yeah, it's often, it's a defense mechanism
[20:04.160 -> 20:06.640] when people are feeling insecure or lost or lonely. interesting one isn't it? Yeah that it's often it's a defense mechanism when
[20:04.240 -> 20:09.600] people are feeling insecure or lost or
[20:06.640 -> 20:12.120] lonely we lash out at people to make
[20:09.600 -> 20:14.280] ourselves feel better at the expense of
[20:12.120 -> 20:16.520] somebody else and I think for anyone
[20:14.280 -> 20:18.440] that maybe see themselves as a victim of
[20:16.520 -> 20:21.000] some of this unkind behavior that we've
[20:18.440 -> 20:23.840] covered earlier sometimes just remember
[20:21.000 -> 20:25.240] that it's hurt people hurting people it's
[20:23.840 -> 20:26.860] often people that are wounded themselves that are trying to wound others
[20:26.860 -> 20:30.380] And I think when you can view the perpetrators in that light
[20:30.680 -> 20:37.000] It gives you the capacity as you said to to forgive them rather than to carry that anger and resentment
[20:37.320 -> 20:42.140] Towards them around and it's difficult especially a young age to do that
[20:42.400 -> 20:46.200] But it's one of those ones that if we can just remember,
[20:46.200 -> 20:47.640] like lean into people and understand
[20:47.640 -> 20:49.860] that they're just sharing their own pain
[20:49.860 -> 20:51.960] through their actions, right?
[20:51.960 -> 20:53.300] If you can live with that,
[20:53.300 -> 20:54.960] then as you grow and you get older,
[20:54.960 -> 20:57.000] I think on reflection it takes the pain away.
[20:57.000 -> 20:57.980] Because you go, do you know what?
[20:57.980 -> 20:59.860] I understand actually what that was about.
[20:59.860 -> 21:02.600] I don't think it makes it less painful in the moment,
[21:02.600 -> 21:04.280] but I think with hindsight,
[21:04.280 -> 21:05.920] it actually does give you the opportunity
[21:05.920 -> 21:08.400] to reflect in a much more healthy way.
[21:08.400 -> 21:09.240] Thank you, mate.
[21:09.240 -> 21:10.060] Thank you, mate.
[21:10.060 -> 21:11.040] I've enjoyed this conversation,
[21:11.040 -> 21:13.400] and hopefully it helps anybody
[21:13.400 -> 21:17.280] that maybe sees themselves as being on the receiving end
[21:17.280 -> 21:19.440] of some of this unkindness
[21:19.440 -> 21:21.160] that gives them the tools to understand
[21:21.160 -> 21:24.400] that what's hard for you isn't necessarily bad for you.
[21:24.400 -> 21:28.520] Absolutely, and if you're struggling with bullying or anything else in your life
[21:28.520 -> 21:31.360] we always recommend here on High Performance that you take a look at the
[21:31.360 -> 21:36.360] resources available on Jack.org. J A A Q it actually stands for just ask a
[21:36.360 -> 21:40.580] question. J A A Q dot org. There's loads of great resources there whatever it is
[21:40.580 -> 21:43.680] that you're struggling with bullying among them and for more information
[21:43.680 -> 21:46.760] about anti-bullying week just search on information about anti-bullying week, just search on the internet,
[21:47.080 -> 21:49.880] anti-bullying week, and you can get all the information right there.
[21:50.240 -> 21:51.040] Thanks a lot, Damien.
[21:51.200 -> 21:52.120] Thanks Jake, loved it.
[21:52.440 -> 21:56.320] And thank you for listening and continuing to listen to the High Performance Podcast.
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