Living life on your own terms with author of Clear Thinking, Shane Parrish (E223)

This episode explores how by mastering the basics, we can unlock the secrets to living life in ‘easy mode’.

Shane Parrish is a former spy, founder of Farnam Street and author of ‘Clear Thinking: Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results’. Jake, Damian and Shane discuss why it is crucial to do the basics right. By analysing our four default modes; Emotion, Ego, Social and Inertia, Shane studies how we can ensure we are thinking clearly. Positioning is a key focus of Shane’s work; he describes to Jake and Damian how by positioning ourselves, eating well, getting enough sleep and exercising, we can improve our lives.

The conversation delves into the core of optimising performance, both individually and in a team setting. Shane shares how he effectively manages a team, especially people who don’t want to do hard work. He explains his motto, "outcome over ego," and why this has transformed his personal and professional life. Whilst discussing how to live a happier life, Shane describes the lessons he’s learnt from people nearing the end of their lives. He explains how we can all lead a life more aligned with our goals, and how to find out what our true motivations are.

This is a deep dive into the psychology of high performance and clear thinking, and reveals how small changes can lead to monumental results in life and leadership.

Find Clear Thinking here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/clear-thinking-turning-ordinary-moments-into-extraordinary-results-shane-parrish/19635288

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**Navigating Life's Challenges: Mastering the Basics for High Performance**

In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, Shane Parrish, author of the bestselling book "Clear Thinking," delves into the art of mastering the basics to unlock the secrets of living life on "easy mode." Joined by hosts Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes, Shane emphasizes the importance of positioning oneself for success, managing default modes of thinking, and practicing clear thinking.

**The Power of Positioning: Choosing Easy or Hard Mode**

Shane introduces the concept of positioning, highlighting how it determines whether life is played on easy or hard mode. By taking control of our positioning, we can create a foundation for high performance and make life easier. This involves prioritizing basic aspects such as sleep, nutrition, exercise, and relationships.

**Managing Default Modes: Recognizing and Overcoming Cognitive Biases**

Shane discusses four default modes that can hinder clear thinking: emotion, ego, social, and inertia. These modes often lead to impulsive decisions and suboptimal outcomes. To manage these defaults, it's essential to be aware of their influence and take steps to mitigate their impact.

**Outcome over Ego: Prioritizing the Best Possible Result**

Shane emphasizes the significance of focusing on the outcome rather than protecting one's ego. By putting the outcome first, individuals can make better decisions, foster collaboration, and create a culture of continuous improvement.

**Living a Fulfilling Life: Aligning Goals with Values**

Shane explores the importance of aligning one's goals with their values. This alignment leads to a more meaningful and fulfilling life. To achieve this, individuals should reflect on their values, set clear goals, and prioritize activities that resonate with their core beliefs.

**Lessons from the Brink of Death: Living with Purpose and Gratitude**

Shane shares insights gained from conversations with individuals nearing the end of their lives. These conversations highlight the significance of living a life true to oneself, pursuing meaningful relationships, and expressing gratitude for the opportunities and experiences life has offered.

**Clear Thinking: A Habitual Practice for High Performance**

Shane emphasizes the importance of developing clear thinking as a habitual practice. This involves questioning assumptions, seeking diverse perspectives, and continuously learning and adapting. By cultivating clear thinking, individuals can make better decisions, solve problems effectively, and navigate life's challenges with greater ease.

**Conclusion: Embracing the Journey of High Performance**

Shane concludes the episode by highlighting the transformative power of mastering the basics and practicing clear thinking. By embracing this approach, individuals can unlock their full potential, achieve high performance, and live a more fulfilling life.

## Summary of the Podcast Episode

This podcast episode delves into the concept of "easy mode" living, emphasizing the significance of mastering the basics to unlock life's true potential. Shane Parrish, a former spy and author, shares his insights on how to optimize performance, both individually and within teams.

### Key Points:

1. **The Basics Matter:**
- Mastering the fundamentals is crucial for achieving success.
- By focusing on the basics, we can improve our overall performance and well-being.

2. **Default Modes:**
- Shane identifies four default modes that influence our behavior: Emotion, Ego, Social, and Inertia.
- Understanding these modes helps us recognize and overcome their negative impact.

3. **Positioning:**
- Positioning ourselves strategically can greatly enhance our lives.
- This involves making informed choices about our health, relationships, and career paths.

4. **Prioritizing Health:**
- Prioritizing health and well-being is essential for high performance.
- Adequate sleep, exercise, and nutrition are key components of a healthy lifestyle.

5. **Managing a Team:**
- Shane shares his approach to managing a team, emphasizing the importance of clear communication and setting achievable goals.
- He advocates for the "outcome over ego" motto to foster a productive and positive work environment.

6. **Living a Happier Life:**
- Shane discusses the lessons learned from individuals nearing the end of their lives.
- He highlights the importance of aligning our actions with our values and finding true motivation.

7. **Small Changes, Big Results:**
- Shane emphasizes the power of small, consistent changes in achieving significant improvements over time.
- By making gradual adjustments, we can transform our lives for the better.

8. **Creating Rules:**
- Creating rules for oneself can help overcome procrastination and establish healthy habits.
- Rules provide a clear framework for decision-making and eliminate the need for constant willpower.

9. **Prioritizing Relationships:**
- Investing time and effort in relationships is crucial for a fulfilling life.
- Nurturing connections with loved ones leads to greater happiness and well-being.

10. **Avoiding Burnout:**
- Shane stresses the importance of avoiding burnout by setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care.
- Maintaining a balance between work and personal life is essential for long-term success.

11. **Clear Thinking:**
- The podcast emphasizes the significance of clear thinking in making sound decisions and achieving desired outcomes.
- By avoiding emotional biases and distractions, we can enhance our cognitive abilities.

12. **Overcoming Defaults:**
- Shane provides practical strategies for overcoming our default modes and making more conscious choices.
- Techniques such as mindfulness, meditation, and journaling can help us gain greater control over our thoughts and actions.

13. **Embracing Failure:**
- Shane encourages listeners to embrace failure as a learning opportunity.
- Mistakes and setbacks are inevitable, but they can be valuable experiences for growth and development.

14. **Continuous Learning:**
- Shane emphasizes the importance of continuous learning and personal development.
- Acquiring new knowledge and skills keeps us adaptable and relevant in a rapidly changing world.

15. **Taking Action:**
- The podcast concludes with a call to action, urging listeners to take practical steps towards improving their lives.
- By implementing the discussed strategies, individuals can unlock their full potential and achieve their goals.

## Summary: The Art of Mastering the Basics for an Easy Life

### Key Points:

- **The Basics Matter:** Shane Parrish, a former spy, author, and founder of Farnam Street, emphasizes the importance of mastering the basics in various aspects of life to unlock the secrets to living in "easy mode."

- **The Four Default Modes:** Parrish analyzes our four default modes – Emotion, Ego, Social, and Inertia – and explains how we can ensure clear thinking by understanding and managing these modes.

- **Positioning:** Parrish's work focuses on the concept of positioning, which involves optimizing our environment, eating well, getting enough sleep, exercising, and setting boundaries to improve our lives.

- **Optimizing Performance:** The conversation delves into the core of optimizing performance, both individually and in a team setting. Parrish shares strategies for effectively managing teams, including his motto, "outcome over ego," which has transformed his personal and professional life.

- **Living a Happier Life:** Parrish discusses the lessons he's learned from people nearing the end of their lives and how we can all lead a life more aligned with our goals and motivations.

### Main Arguments:

- **Mastering the basics in key areas of life can lead to a more fulfilling and less stressful existence.**

- **By understanding and managing our four default modes, we can make better decisions and avoid impulsive or emotionally driven actions.**

- **Positioning ourselves for success through healthy habits, effective time management, and clear goal setting can significantly improve our lives.**

- **Optimizing performance requires a focus on outcomes rather than egos, effective team management, and a willingness to learn and adapt.**

- **Living a happier life involves aligning our actions with our values, finding purpose and meaning, and appreciating the present moment.**

### Controversies/Insights:

- **The idea of "easy mode" may be subjective and vary from person to person.**

- **Parrish's emphasis on outcome over ego may be challenging for individuals who struggle with self-promotion or feel the need to assert their authority.**

- **The discussion on positioning and optimizing performance may resonate more with individuals in leadership or high-performance roles.**

### Overall Message:

This podcast episode provides a deep dive into the psychology of high performance and clear thinking, revealing how small changes in our daily habits and mindset can lead to monumental results in life and leadership. By mastering the basics and focusing on what truly matters, we can unlock the secrets to living a more fulfilling and less stressful life.

# The Secrets of Living Life in 'Easy Mode'

**Mastering the Basics for Extraordinary Results:**

Shane Parrish, former spy, founder of Farnam Street, and author of 'Clear Thinking: Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results,' joins Jake and Damian to explore the transformative power of mastering the basics.

**Key Insights and Takeaway:**

- **The Importance of Clear Thinking:** By analyzing our four default modes – Emotion, Ego, Social, and Inertia – we can ensure clarity of thought and make better decisions.

- **Positioning for Success:** Positioning ourselves strategically, eating well, getting enough sleep, and exercising regularly can significantly improve our lives.

- **Optimizing Performance:** Effective team management involves focusing on outcomes over ego and creating a culture of accountability.

- **Living a Happier Life:** Learning from those nearing the end of their lives can provide valuable insights for living a more fulfilling and purposeful life.

- **Aligning Goals with Motivations:** Understanding our true motivations helps us align our actions with our long-term goals.

- **Small Changes, Monumental Results:** Embracing small, consistent changes in our daily routines can lead to significant improvements in personal and professional life.

**Core Concepts and Strategies:**

- **The Power of Clear Thinking:** Mastering clear thinking enables us to make better decisions, solve problems effectively, and navigate complex situations with greater ease.

- **Positioning for Success:** Strategic positioning involves creating an environment that supports our goals and aspirations, fostering personal and professional growth.

- **Optimizing Performance:** Effective team management requires setting clear goals, providing constructive feedback, and creating a culture of accountability and continuous improvement.

- **Living a Happier Life:** Learning from those nearing the end of their lives can provide valuable insights into what truly matters in life, helping us live more fulfilling and meaningful lives.

- **Aligning Goals with Motivations:** Understanding our true motivations helps us identify our core values and align our actions with our long-term goals, leading to greater satisfaction and purpose.

- **Small Changes, Monumental Results:** Embracing small, consistent changes in our daily routines, such as improving our diet, exercising regularly, and practicing mindfulness, can accumulate over time to create significant improvements in our lives.

**Conclusion:**

Mastering the basics of clear thinking, positioning, performance optimization, and personal fulfillment can unlock the secrets to living life in 'easy mode.' By embracing small, consistent changes and focusing on our true motivations, we can achieve extraordinary results in both our personal and professional lives.

[00:00.000 -> 00:05.360] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the
[00:05.360 -> 00:08.800] minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet.
[00:08.800 -> 00:13.720] I'm Jay Comfrey, and alongside Professor Damian Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes
[00:13.720 -> 00:19.920] and struggles of our guests, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow.
[00:19.920 -> 00:22.240] Here's what's coming up today.
[00:22.240 -> 00:25.580] The position that you're in is choosing whether to play on easy
[00:25.580 -> 00:26.580] mode or hard mode.
[00:26.800 -> 00:28.400] I set my own scoreboard.
[00:29.160 -> 00:30.760] I play by my own rules.
[00:31.000 -> 00:33.080] It means I don't care
[00:33.440 -> 00:35.120] what you think about what I'm doing.
[00:35.960 -> 00:37.240] I think you need to narrow things
[00:37.240 -> 00:38.940] down to two or three priorities.
[00:39.120 -> 00:40.120] These are my focus.
[00:40.200 -> 00:42.240] And if building a relationship
[00:42.280 -> 00:43.620] and maintaining that relationship
[00:43.620 -> 00:46.880] with my partner matters to me, I should be able to see that in your calendar.
[00:46.880 -> 00:49.880] So don't tell me your priorities, show me your calendar.
[00:49.880 -> 00:54.880] Imagine you're 90 and you're in a coma at the hospital,
[00:54.880 -> 00:58.380] and you are near death and everybody is gathered around you.
[00:58.380 -> 01:01.380] What is it that you want them to be saying?
[01:01.380 -> 01:08.200] And then am I living my life in a way that is gonna lead to people saying those things about me?
[01:08.200 -> 01:11.200] Or am I chasing things that I don't really want?
[01:11.200 -> 01:13.520] Am I giving up what's really important to me
[01:13.520 -> 01:15.620] going after something I don't really need?
[01:17.640 -> 01:20.480] So today we welcome the author of Clear Thinking,
[01:20.480 -> 01:22.280] Shane Parish to High Performance.
[01:22.280 -> 01:25.040] So Shane is the author of the world's most read blog
[01:25.040 -> 01:29.640] on clear thinking. He's been described as Wall Street's biggest influencer and now he's
[01:29.640 -> 01:34.120] written an incredible book. It's already a New York Times bestseller. It's called Clear
[01:34.120 -> 01:39.640] Thinking and it has genuine lessons, impactful takeaways and easily adopted ideas and behaviors
[01:39.640 -> 01:43.240] for you to live the life that you want. Because actually Shane believes that most of us don't
[01:43.240 -> 01:45.760] make decisions. We actually stumble through life.
[01:45.760 -> 01:47.160] We feel overwhelmed.
[01:47.160 -> 01:48.840] We feel exhausted.
[01:48.840 -> 01:53.280] If that rings a bell, then this is an episode that could just change things for you.
[01:53.280 -> 01:58.600] Because Shane is about to explain how actually positioning is key and how you can position
[01:58.600 -> 02:04.920] yourself today to achieve what you've always wanted tomorrow and in the future.
[02:04.920 -> 02:06.720] So let's get straight to it then.
[02:06.720 -> 02:17.640] Today's episode of the High Performance Podcast is with the incredible Shane Parish.
[02:17.640 -> 02:22.840] These days, every new potential hire can feel like a high stakes wager for your small business.
[02:22.840 -> 02:25.540] You want to be 100% certain that you have access
[02:25.540 -> 02:27.720] to the best qualified candidates available.
[02:27.720 -> 02:30.340] That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs.
[02:30.340 -> 02:34.040] LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team,
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[02:35.960 -> 02:40.220] Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash hardwork.
[02:40.220 -> 02:43.700] That's linkedin.com slash hardwork
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[02:45.000 -> 02:46.500] Terms and conditions apply.
[02:49.000 -> 02:54.500] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life.
[02:54.500 -> 02:58.000] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share.
[02:58.000 -> 03:05.140] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone plans online and passes those
[03:05.140 -> 03:06.140] savings to you.
[03:06.140 -> 03:10.500] And for a limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new customer offer
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[03:49.000 -> 03:55.000] Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[03:55.000 -> 04:02.000] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month.
[04:02.000 -> 04:05.500] To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month
[04:05.500 -> 04:11.840] unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash HPP. That's
[04:11.840 -> 04:19.340] mintmobile.com slash HPP. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com
[04:19.340 -> 04:28.000] slash HPP. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for
[04:24.320 -> 04:29.400] details. I also just want to let you know
[04:28.000 -> 04:31.480] that before we sat down for our
[04:29.400 -> 04:33.040] conversation with Shane, Damien and
[04:31.480 -> 04:34.560] myself quizzed him on how we could get
[04:33.040 -> 04:37.360] the most out of the interview and he
[04:34.560 -> 04:39.280] gave us some awesome techniques, tools and
[04:37.360 -> 04:41.200] tips for how we can get the most out of a
[04:39.280 -> 04:44.040] conversation with someone. Obviously for
[04:41.200 -> 04:46.200] us it applies to the podcast but it
[04:44.040 -> 04:49.860] could apply to you and anyone in your life that you converse with, talk to, communicate with.
[04:49.860 -> 04:53.620] If you would like to hear that additional extra content then you can
[04:53.620 -> 04:57.520] get it for free right now on the High Performance app so please join the tens
[04:57.520 -> 05:01.920] of thousands of people that listen to our podcast on the app and get loads of
[05:01.920 -> 05:09.040] additional incredible content for free. All you have to do is download the High Performance app from the App Store and use your unique code
[05:09.040 -> 05:18.360] HPAPP. Enjoy.
[05:18.360 -> 05:23.840] Let's start then with our favorite question. What is high performance?
[05:23.840 -> 05:28.240] I think high performance for me is just being the best version of myself.
[05:28.240 -> 05:29.240] What else could it be?
[05:29.240 -> 05:30.760] So how do you get there?
[05:30.760 -> 05:33.960] Well, I think you have to think about the position you put yourself in, which is something
[05:33.960 -> 05:36.960] I talk about in the book.
[05:36.960 -> 05:41.960] The position that you're in is choosing whether to play on easy mode or hard mode.
[05:41.960 -> 05:49.080] And so you can position yourself so that life is easier. You're on high-performance mode all the time. But what do you have to do? Well, you
[05:49.080 -> 05:52.960] have to sleep well, you have to eat well, you have to take care of yourself, you
[05:52.960 -> 05:56.840] have to invest in relationships, you have to do the basic things that you need to
[05:56.840 -> 06:00.360] do in order to put yourself in a position where things are on easy mode.
[06:00.360 -> 06:03.920] Why does that matter? Well, think about high performance. You can't be high
[06:03.920 -> 06:07.280] performance at work if you're having problems at home.
[06:07.280 -> 06:09.400] You can't be high performance at home
[06:09.400 -> 06:11.520] if you're having problems at work.
[06:11.520 -> 06:13.000] So you need all these things in line,
[06:13.000 -> 06:16.040] but one of the things that you can do that just dampen,
[06:16.040 -> 06:17.560] like you're going to get emotional,
[06:17.560 -> 06:19.000] you're going to have stressful days,
[06:19.000 -> 06:20.480] you're going to get angry,
[06:20.480 -> 06:22.000] you're going to experience fear.
[06:22.000 -> 06:25.320] You can't change the fact that that's going to happen,
[06:25.320 -> 06:28.440] but you can totally change how your body handles it
[06:28.440 -> 06:31.320] and your mind handles it by doing the basic things, right?
[06:31.320 -> 06:34.880] And I think so often we think of these things as simple,
[06:34.880 -> 06:36.440] but, and they are simple.
[06:36.440 -> 06:38.880] They are the basic things that we need to do,
[06:38.880 -> 06:40.560] but they're not simplistic.
[06:40.560 -> 06:42.100] And that's where we miss it, right?
[06:42.100 -> 06:44.020] We think they're so simple, they can't work,
[06:44.020 -> 06:45.760] but they're actually so simple, they do work
[06:45.760 -> 06:47.720] and nobody pays attention to them.
[06:47.720 -> 06:49.260] But if we get a good night's sleep,
[06:49.260 -> 06:52.400] it changes how we interpret everything the next day at work.
[06:52.400 -> 06:54.040] We're performing better because of that.
[06:54.040 -> 06:55.680] And we all know this, we experience it.
[06:55.680 -> 06:58.520] When you're tired, when you're fatigued
[06:58.520 -> 07:01.820] at the end of the day, and you're working really hard,
[07:01.820 -> 07:03.720] you're getting as much done in three hours
[07:03.720 -> 07:05.800] as would normally take you one hour.
[07:05.800 -> 07:08.280] And so you're not very effective at what you're doing.
[07:08.280 -> 07:11.700] So what are the things that you can do to put yourself in the best position possible
[07:11.700 -> 07:13.360] to be effective?
[07:13.360 -> 07:17.200] So we think that clear thinking, which is the title of your book, is about thinking,
[07:17.200 -> 07:18.200] right?
[07:18.200 -> 07:22.680] Clear thinking is actually not about thinking, it's about positioning, it's about being in
[07:22.680 -> 07:25.280] a place that allows clear thinking.
[07:25.280 -> 07:26.280] 100%.
[07:26.280 -> 07:30.160] So, there's three components to clear thinking as we lay it in the book.
[07:30.160 -> 07:34.120] Positioning, managing your default or the urges that get you in trouble or get most
[07:34.120 -> 07:37.120] people in trouble, and thinking independently.
[07:37.120 -> 07:38.880] And those three things work in concert.
[07:38.880 -> 07:44.040] So, you can think of positioning as, am I playing on easy mode or hard mode?
[07:44.040 -> 07:46.100] And this is a great way to think about it
[07:46.100 -> 07:48.380] because it's like, you're going to experience
[07:48.380 -> 07:49.220] all these emotions,
[07:49.220 -> 07:50.680] you're gonna experience these defaults.
[07:50.680 -> 07:52.100] We talk about four of them in the book,
[07:52.100 -> 07:54.820] emotion, ego, inertia, and social.
[07:54.820 -> 07:56.580] All of these things happen to everybody.
[07:56.580 -> 07:59.180] And they tend to be situations that think for us
[07:59.180 -> 08:01.220] unless we're consciously aware of them.
[08:01.220 -> 08:02.800] And so to be consciously aware of them,
[08:02.800 -> 08:04.700] to be in control of ourselves,
[08:04.700 -> 08:09.280] one of the things that we can do is before we experience them, what are the things within
[08:09.280 -> 08:12.120] our control that put us in a better position to experience?
[08:12.120 -> 08:17.520] So is that all the time? Are you doing that almost, I imagine you're some sort of expert
[08:17.520 -> 08:21.120] at this by now, so you can position yourself almost without thinking about it?
[08:21.120 -> 08:25.160] Well, I think it's just being conscious about how am I positioning myself?
[08:25.160 -> 08:27.400] Am I putting myself in the best position possible
[08:27.400 -> 08:28.680] to have the best day tomorrow?
[08:28.680 -> 08:30.240] If I were to talk to you tonight and say,
[08:30.240 -> 08:32.540] what are the things that you can do tonight
[08:32.540 -> 08:35.120] that are gonna make tomorrow easier for you?
[08:35.120 -> 08:36.480] And then you start thinking about that.
[08:36.480 -> 08:39.240] Well, okay, well, here, I can go to bed on time.
[08:39.240 -> 08:40.440] I can maybe not drink.
[08:40.440 -> 08:41.720] I can work out tonight.
[08:41.720 -> 08:45.880] I can meaningfully connect with my partner or my spouse, I can
[08:45.880 -> 08:50.440] clean up the kitchen, I can read this book that I've been meaning to read that's going
[08:50.440 -> 08:54.400] to affect how I perform at work tomorrow because it's on a topic that I do at work.
[08:54.400 -> 08:59.600] Well, these are things 100% within your control that you can do tonight to make tomorrow easier.
[08:59.600 -> 09:02.160] And if you repeat that day after day, well, what happens?
[09:02.160 -> 09:04.400] You start to be in an increasingly better position.
[09:04.400 -> 09:08.440] And can you just confirm what you mean when you talk about hard mode or easy mode?
[09:08.440 -> 09:12.720] Yeah, so maybe a good example of this is, and this will relate to everybody, but I'm
[09:12.720 -> 09:17.680] going to tell a story about my son and you'll see how it applies to you and life. One of
[09:17.680 -> 09:22.040] my kids came home, I have two teenagers, the 13 and 14 year old, last year he came home
[09:22.040 -> 09:26.160] with an exam and they do exams at that age in the
[09:26.160 -> 09:30.880] school that they go to. And for anybody who has a teenager, you know, he just shrugged
[09:30.880 -> 09:38.080] his shoulders, tossed me this exam that I have to sign and said I did my best and walked
[09:38.080 -> 09:42.780] by. Right? Now, I remember playing sports as a kid and I'm like, you know, most people
[09:42.780 -> 09:45.680] quit sports because of the conversation the parents have
[09:45.680 -> 09:46.680] on the car ride home.
[09:46.680 -> 09:50.080] They don't quit sports because of their performance on the field.
[09:50.080 -> 09:52.720] Could have been the worst game ever, but nobody quits because of that.
[09:52.720 -> 09:54.880] They quit because the conversation in the car.
[09:54.880 -> 09:56.360] So I'm like, I'm not going to talk about this.
[09:56.360 -> 10:01.400] I'm going to let his emotions and my emotions, because I was pretty upset too, simmer down
[10:01.400 -> 10:02.400] a little bit.
[10:02.400 -> 10:03.400] Right.
[10:03.400 -> 10:07.760] And so later on that night, I'm like, well, talk to me about what it means to do your best.
[10:07.760 -> 10:08.760] Like walk me through this.
[10:08.760 -> 10:10.760] I really wanna know, I want you to be specific.
[10:10.760 -> 10:14.240] He's like, okay, well, the exam started at 10 o'clock.
[10:14.240 -> 10:16.680] I sat down, I looked at all the questions,
[10:16.680 -> 10:18.180] I looked at all the points,
[10:18.180 -> 10:19.400] I looked at how much time I had,
[10:19.400 -> 10:23.440] I allocated my energy to the questions with the most points.
[10:23.440 -> 10:26.580] I'm like, okay, you followed your test taking algorithm. And he's like, and I answered them to the questions with the most points. I'm like, okay, you followed, you know, your test taking algorithm.
[10:26.580 -> 10:27.880] And he's like, and I answered them
[10:27.880 -> 10:29.360] to the best of my ability.
[10:29.360 -> 10:31.320] And I was like, oh, that's really interesting.
[10:31.320 -> 10:34.560] That is how most adults think about decision-making.
[10:34.560 -> 10:36.980] That is how most adults think about life.
[10:36.980 -> 10:38.880] But pause, bear with me.
[10:38.880 -> 10:42.360] Let's rewind 72 hours here.
[10:42.360 -> 10:45.540] What did you do leading up to this test?
[10:45.540 -> 10:47.240] Did you fight with your brother in the morning?
[10:47.240 -> 10:48.080] Yes.
[10:48.080 -> 10:49.600] Did you eat a healthy breakfast?
[10:49.600 -> 10:50.640] No.
[10:50.640 -> 10:52.720] Did you go to bed on time the night before?
[10:52.720 -> 10:53.540] No.
[10:53.540 -> 10:54.380] Why not?
[10:54.380 -> 10:55.200] I was cramming.
[10:55.200 -> 10:56.040] Why were you cramming?
[10:56.040 -> 10:57.080] I didn't study.
[10:57.080 -> 10:58.440] Didn't study properly.
[10:58.440 -> 10:59.960] So I looked at him and I was like,
[10:59.960 -> 11:03.320] you chose to play on hard mode, right?
[11:03.320 -> 11:05.280] All of these things are within your control.
[11:05.280 -> 11:06.700] They're things that you know.
[11:06.700 -> 11:09.340] If I sat you down and said, how do you prepare for this test?
[11:09.340 -> 11:11.280] You know you can do all of these things.
[11:11.280 -> 11:12.800] They're all within your control.
[11:12.800 -> 11:17.420] And if you do them, that doesn't mean the test isn't going to kick your butt.
[11:17.420 -> 11:22.000] It doesn't change the fact you have to take a test, but it dramatically increases the
[11:22.000 -> 11:25.360] odds that you're going to be successful on that test.
[11:25.360 -> 11:27.960] And I think that's easy mode versus hard mode.
[11:27.960 -> 11:34.520] And you use a great example in the book Shane around Henry Kissinger about how he challenges
[11:34.520 -> 11:36.120] people that talk about I've done my best.
[11:36.120 -> 11:37.880] Would you tell us a bit about that?
[11:37.880 -> 11:43.560] Yeah, so I worked with a guy once, actually more than once, but I think we've all worked
[11:43.560 -> 11:46.420] with somebody who sort of half asses things.
[11:46.420 -> 11:48.000] You know, they sort of do the bare minimum.
[11:48.000 -> 11:50.000] They're smart, but lazy.
[11:50.000 -> 11:52.500] And those are the worst type of people to work with in some cases.
[11:52.500 -> 11:54.840] In some cases, you know, it can work for you.
[11:54.840 -> 12:01.780] But I was working with this gentleman and he sent out this shitty draft about a presentation
[12:01.780 -> 12:09.960] and it sort of had enough in it that you could see he did a little bit of work, but it was maybe, I don't know, 50% complete. And he sent it out to the whole
[12:09.960 -> 12:14.280] team. And I was managing this team. I had just taken over and I was like, oh, this is
[12:14.280 -> 12:18.920] like, I thought this guy, you know, I had really high expectations for this guy. And
[12:18.920 -> 12:24.280] so I see the team start replying with like, oh, change this slide to XYZ. And I'm like,
[12:24.280 -> 12:25.200] he's just getting everybody to do the work for him. And I was like, oh, change this slide to XYZ. And I'm like, he's just getting everybody
[12:25.200 -> 12:27.000] to do the work for him.
[12:27.000 -> 12:29.720] And I was like, pause, nobody respond to this.
[12:29.720 -> 12:31.640] I was like, before you send this out,
[12:31.640 -> 12:34.440] I wanna know if this is your best work or not.
[12:34.440 -> 12:37.520] And of course he didn't wanna admit that was his best work
[12:37.520 -> 12:39.720] because it wasn't his best work.
[12:39.720 -> 12:42.060] And then so he went back, he went away for a couple of days,
[12:42.060 -> 12:43.280] he did the exact same thing.
[12:43.280 -> 12:45.800] And then he came back and then he submitted it again,
[12:45.800 -> 12:47.680] just to me this time, not to the team.
[12:47.680 -> 12:49.360] And I was like, is this your best work?
[12:49.360 -> 12:50.640] And he said, no.
[12:50.640 -> 12:52.120] And he went back for another couple of days,
[12:52.120 -> 12:54.360] he did it again, presentation polished,
[12:54.360 -> 12:55.600] almost perfect by the end of it.
[12:55.600 -> 12:56.440] And I was like, great,
[12:56.440 -> 12:58.960] this is what I expect from you going forward.
[12:58.960 -> 13:01.460] And that story I learned from Henry Kissinger.
[13:01.460 -> 13:04.400] I remember reading a story about Kissinger in the 70s,
[13:04.400 -> 13:06.400] where a staffer gave him a memo,
[13:06.400 -> 13:07.720] and he's like, is this your,
[13:07.720 -> 13:08.680] he didn't even read the memo,
[13:08.680 -> 13:09.920] he's like, is this your best work?
[13:09.920 -> 13:11.040] And the staffer was like, no.
[13:11.040 -> 13:12.960] He's like, well, go do your best work.
[13:12.960 -> 13:16.340] Staffer comes back, gives him the new memo,
[13:16.340 -> 13:18.080] and the same thing happens over and over again.
[13:18.080 -> 13:19.500] Then finally the staffer says, yes.
[13:19.500 -> 13:21.400] He goes, okay, now I'll read it.
[13:21.400 -> 13:22.240] Brilliant.
[13:22.240 -> 13:24.440] And I was like, that applies to so many things.
[13:24.440 -> 13:25.760] I want you to do your best work. We're hiring you to do your best work. We're not hiring you to half'll read it. Brilliant. And I was like, that applies to so many things. I want you to do your best work.
[13:25.760 -> 13:27.880] We're hiring you to do your best work.
[13:27.880 -> 13:29.640] We're not hiring you to half-ass it.
[13:29.640 -> 13:32.160] We're not hiring you to just put in the motions.
[13:32.160 -> 13:35.960] We're hiring you to go all in with us on what we're doing.
[13:35.960 -> 13:37.560] And if you can't go all in with us,
[13:37.560 -> 13:39.320] why am I gonna go all in with you?
[13:39.320 -> 13:40.960] And this is what people misunderstand
[13:40.960 -> 13:42.840] about the workplace in reality.
[13:42.840 -> 13:46.680] In reality, your boss is never gonna go all in with you unless you're all in with
[13:46.680 -> 13:47.840] them.
[13:47.840 -> 13:50.680] And you're going to wonder why people are getting opportunities you're not getting.
[13:50.680 -> 13:55.360] But if you treat it like a job and the person you're working beside treats it like a career,
[13:55.360 -> 13:57.560] they're going to get opportunities that you don't get.
[13:57.560 -> 14:00.360] Well, that leads to that really interesting research.
[14:00.360 -> 14:04.960] I think I've heard you talk about this Shane around whether you view your job as a job,
[14:04.960 -> 14:05.960] a career or a calling.
[14:05.960 -> 14:10.680] Don't I think it was a chat you had with Adam Grant and those of you as a call in tend to
[14:10.680 -> 14:14.000] get more opportunities because you're all in as you say.
[14:14.000 -> 14:15.000] You're all in.
[14:15.000 -> 14:16.000] Well, why would, how could it be otherwise?
[14:16.000 -> 14:21.280] Imagine you're your boss and you have two people, maybe they're equally competent, but
[14:21.280 -> 14:31.000] one person treats it like a nine to five transaction and one person treats it like a 9 to 5 transaction, and one person treats it like a calling or all in, if you want to use that vocabulary, you're going to get the
[14:31.000 -> 14:33.040] opportunities and the other person is not.
[14:33.040 -> 14:36.680] It doesn't mean you're a bad person, it just means why am I going to invest in you?
[14:36.680 -> 14:37.680] It doesn't make sense.
[14:37.680 -> 14:42.720] So can you tell us, we've spoke about positioning, which is fascinating, but then you spoke about
[14:42.720 -> 14:45.080] the defaults that can hamstring
[14:45.080 -> 14:46.080] us.
[14:46.080 -> 14:47.080] Would you tell us a bit about those four?
[14:47.080 -> 14:49.440] Yeah, so there's four defaults mentioned in the book.
[14:49.440 -> 14:53.760] There's emotion, ego, social, and inertia.
[14:53.760 -> 14:59.020] And what these tend to be are situations that we're more prone, doesn't mean we won't think,
[14:59.020 -> 15:04.640] but they're more prone to think for us or change how we think rather than us being in
[15:04.640 -> 15:06.040] control about what we're
[15:06.040 -> 15:08.080] thinking and how we're thinking.
[15:08.080 -> 15:11.860] A great example of sort of emotion is fear, right?
[15:11.860 -> 15:14.680] Fear prevents us from doing things.
[15:14.680 -> 15:20.200] Fear of success and fear of failure, both of those things can cause us to stay in place.
[15:20.200 -> 15:22.280] Ego, we want to be right.
[15:22.280 -> 15:26.600] And when we want to be right, we have an idea, we're at work, what are we doing?
[15:26.600 -> 15:28.560] We're trying to prove that our idea is right.
[15:28.560 -> 15:33.400] And the more time and effort we try to spend proving that our idea is right, the less time
[15:33.400 -> 15:36.800] and effort we spend listening to other people who might have a better idea.
[15:36.800 -> 15:41.740] I have three words that I use that are sticky on my monitor just to remind me of this, which
[15:41.740 -> 15:43.480] is outcome over ego.
[15:43.480 -> 15:46.240] I can't change the fact I have an ego,
[15:46.240 -> 15:50.760] but I can change how the ego manifests itself within me to the outcome. And if I can get
[15:50.760 -> 15:55.360] the best outcome possible, that's great. And if I can tie my ego to that, even better.
[15:55.360 -> 15:59.960] So can you give us an example of where you've remembered that mantra and how it has changed
[15:59.960 -> 16:01.320] the course of a conversation?
[16:01.320 -> 16:05.680] Yeah, because I always think that my ideas are right, right? Like, I mean, we always do.
[16:05.680 -> 16:07.400] We put an idea on the table.
[16:07.400 -> 16:12.680] You know, recently we were deciding whether we should do this FS nourish thing.
[16:12.680 -> 16:16.960] And we're doing a project, we hired a chef, we want to explore cooking through Farnham
[16:16.960 -> 16:19.880] Street in a style that works with us.
[16:19.880 -> 16:21.680] I'm curious about it.
[16:21.680 -> 16:28.440] And one of the people that we work with, Vicky had these very strong ideas on what we should do.
[16:28.440 -> 16:31.280] And my intuition is like, I've done this,
[16:31.280 -> 16:32.960] I've gotten this this far,
[16:32.960 -> 16:36.120] I have a very strong intuition about what we should do too.
[16:36.120 -> 16:37.400] But then I remembered,
[16:37.400 -> 16:40.160] I'm not really open to listening to her at this moment.
[16:40.160 -> 16:43.280] And I was like, I know I need to focus on the best outcome.
[16:43.280 -> 16:44.920] Which of these things if I step back
[16:44.920 -> 16:47.480] and look at them objectively, almost like a director
[16:47.480 -> 16:52.560] watching from a camera instead of being me watching from myself, which of these things
[16:52.560 -> 16:54.440] is more likely to lead to success?
[16:54.440 -> 16:58.200] And it turns out a lot of her ideas were much better than mine.
[16:58.200 -> 17:00.800] And I was like, okay, let's run with them.
[17:00.800 -> 17:03.360] And then what do we need to know to know if they're working or not?
[17:03.360 -> 17:05.800] Because it's really important that we course correct quickly.
[17:05.800 -> 17:10.280] Like what are the signs if we do this, like what are the signs that it's an indication
[17:10.280 -> 17:11.600] that it's right, going right?
[17:11.600 -> 17:14.860] And what are the signs that would be an indication that it's not going right?
[17:14.860 -> 17:16.480] And now we can have a conversation about it.
[17:16.480 -> 17:21.060] And if we pre-decide what that is, it makes it really easy to have that conversation.
[17:21.060 -> 17:25.000] We talked about this, we decided if we saw this, we were going to have a conversation.
[17:25.000 -> 17:29.720] We're not on the spot because this is what happens at work. Something will go wrong.
[17:29.720 -> 17:33.640] People won't feel empowered to speak up because they don't want to go against the boss. They
[17:33.640 -> 17:37.920] don't want to go against the wisdom of the organization, if you will, or the hippo, the
[17:37.920 -> 17:43.080] highest paid person in the room. And so if you decide in advance, here are the things,
[17:43.080 -> 17:45.120] here are the signs of success, and
[17:45.120 -> 17:48.080] here are the things we're all going to look out for as a team.
[17:48.080 -> 17:51.840] And if any of those things start going off the rail, now we're going to have a conversation
[17:51.840 -> 17:52.840] about it.
[17:52.840 -> 17:56.320] And now everybody has permission to have that conversation, you get to a much better outcome.
[17:56.320 -> 18:02.140] I want to talk about the other two defaults, but you made reference to almost viewing yourself
[18:02.140 -> 18:06.600] through the lens of a director rather than as a participant.
[18:06.600 -> 18:11.040] And that's really interesting idea that you spoke about elsewhere of sometimes imagining
[18:11.040 -> 18:13.240] a TV crew filming you.
[18:13.240 -> 18:14.680] Would you tell us a bit about that?
[18:14.680 -> 18:20.140] Yeah, so it's really hard to see a system that you're part of.
[18:20.140 -> 18:23.840] And what that means is I think we all learned this in physics in grade 9, right?
[18:23.840 -> 18:25.660] You stand on a train with a ball
[18:25.660 -> 18:28.580] and the train is moving at 60 kilometers an hour.
[18:28.580 -> 18:29.980] And you look down at the ball
[18:29.980 -> 18:31.900] and it's how fast is the ball moving?
[18:31.900 -> 18:34.580] And well, relative to you, it's not moving at all.
[18:34.580 -> 18:36.060] But if somebody is watching the train,
[18:36.060 -> 18:38.060] it's moving 60 kilometers an hour.
[18:38.060 -> 18:40.580] And if you think about the source of all cognitive biases
[18:40.580 -> 18:43.100] and almost all mistakes, they're perspective problems,
[18:43.100 -> 18:44.220] they're blind spots.
[18:44.220 -> 18:47.000] And so what can we do to remove our blind spots?
[18:47.000 -> 18:49.560] We can see the world through somebody else's eyes.
[18:49.560 -> 18:51.440] So see it through the observer's eyes,
[18:51.440 -> 18:53.440] the train's moving 60 kilometers an hour,
[18:53.440 -> 18:57.200] or right now we're moving 18,000 miles an hour
[18:57.200 -> 18:58.720] around the sun, right?
[18:58.720 -> 19:00.440] So if somebody was standing on the sun,
[19:00.440 -> 19:02.840] they would see us and we would be moving faster
[19:02.840 -> 19:06.600] than we're even possible to move on earth.
[19:06.600 -> 19:09.220] You want to get different perspectives on the problems.
[19:09.220 -> 19:11.240] How do you get different perspectives on the problems?
[19:11.240 -> 19:13.760] Well, you can ask people for different insights.
[19:13.760 -> 19:18.640] You can do thought experiments where you see the problem through a different lens than
[19:18.640 -> 19:20.760] what you're currently seeing it through.
[19:20.760 -> 19:22.640] And one way to do that is a film crew.
[19:22.640 -> 19:26.280] So you can imagine that there's a film crew following you around.
[19:26.280 -> 19:28.200] They're documenting your success.
[19:28.200 -> 19:29.360] You are successful.
[19:29.360 -> 19:31.580] They're watching you and you're showing them
[19:31.580 -> 19:35.840] all the things that you do that lead to that success.
[19:35.840 -> 19:37.500] While all of a sudden when you wake up,
[19:37.500 -> 19:39.720] you're not dilly dallying in bed.
[19:39.720 -> 19:42.040] You're not doing an hour on TikTok all the time.
[19:42.040 -> 19:50.100] And all these things you don't want the film crew to see, those are indicators of behaviors that you're doing that you might be ashamed
[19:50.100 -> 19:53.440] of or might not be working for you in the way that you thought they were working for
[19:53.440 -> 19:58.080] you. And it's just a different way to look outside into your life and get a different
[19:58.080 -> 19:59.820] perspective on it.
[19:59.820 -> 20:03.380] Social and inertia are the final two of these four pillars. Let's cover them.
[20:03.380 -> 20:07.600] Well, so social is we tend to do what we've always done and we also don't want to disappoint
[20:07.600 -> 20:08.600] people.
[20:08.600 -> 20:09.600] Yeah.
[20:09.600 -> 20:10.600] Right?
[20:10.600 -> 20:12.960] So we tend to best practices by definition are average.
[20:12.960 -> 20:16.800] If everybody's doing them, then you know, they're best practices, but we can't get fired
[20:16.800 -> 20:17.800] for doing them.
[20:17.800 -> 20:22.760] So we need to learn when to deviate from sort of the norms and create advantageous divergence.
[20:22.760 -> 20:23.760] Right?
[20:23.760 -> 20:25.400] You want to diverge and you want to be right.
[20:25.400 -> 20:27.920] There's no points for diverging and being wrong.
[20:27.920 -> 20:29.880] And also, I don't want to let you down.
[20:29.880 -> 20:35.040] So there's a lot of situations where I end up doing things that I don't want to do because
[20:35.040 -> 20:36.600] I don't want to say no to you.
[20:36.600 -> 20:40.200] If we're on the phone and we can come back to this later, but if we're on the phone and
[20:40.200 -> 20:42.280] you say, hey, can you do this thing for me?
[20:42.280 -> 20:44.360] I might not want to do it.
[20:44.360 -> 20:47.060] Most of the time I probably don't, but I'll say yes.
[20:47.060 -> 20:48.980] How many like this has got to happen to you?
[20:48.980 -> 20:50.220] Well, I'm a people pleaser.
[20:50.220 -> 20:52.740] So I'm, I want to know more about this one.
[20:52.740 -> 20:54.020] So there's ways around this, right?
[20:54.020 -> 20:58.840] And we can, we can talk about that in a second, but that's a great example of a social situation
[20:58.840 -> 21:00.180] that thinks for you.
[21:00.180 -> 21:01.180] Right?
[21:01.180 -> 21:04.000] So you end up saying yes, even though you don't want to say yes.
[21:04.000 -> 21:08.480] And then inertia, you stay in relationships that you, you know, they're too good to leave
[21:08.480 -> 21:10.320] and they're too bad to stay.
[21:10.320 -> 21:13.760] And you just sort of like end up in these things and you're doing them because you've
[21:13.760 -> 21:14.760] always done them.
[21:14.760 -> 21:16.600] You go to the same job you've had.
[21:16.600 -> 21:21.640] A common one that applies to a lot of people is maybe you've worked 15 years in the same
[21:21.640 -> 21:25.160] job and you don't want to leave because your pension is just
[21:25.160 -> 21:30.440] around the corner or you have 15 years invested, you have a lot of sunk costs going into it.
[21:30.440 -> 21:34.160] And so you keep doing these things even though they're not serving you and you're not really
[21:34.160 -> 21:37.640] thinking about it anymore. You sort of rationalize it away and don't think about it, but you're
[21:37.640 -> 21:39.300] not really happy about it either.
[21:39.300 -> 21:43.700] So you're making better decisions by keeping your ego in check and reminding yourself it's
[21:43.700 -> 21:49.120] about better outcomes, not about being right. You're regulating your emotions to make sure they're not taking you
[21:49.120 -> 21:52.760] down the wrong path. You're aware of the fact that lots of decisions we make just because
[21:52.760 -> 21:57.440] that's the social way that they've been made for years. You're good at avoiding getting
[21:57.440 -> 22:02.240] stuck in a rut. At the same time, you're checking whether someone is delivering their best work
[22:02.240 -> 22:05.160] all the time. You're imagining there's a film crew on your shoulder
[22:05.160 -> 22:07.740] to make sure you're living the best way.
[22:07.740 -> 22:09.360] This sounds exhausting.
[22:09.360 -> 22:11.360] It's not really exhausting at all.
[22:11.360 -> 22:14.200] The way that I think of it is your position determines
[22:14.200 -> 22:15.840] whether all of those things are gonna be
[22:15.840 -> 22:17.160] on easy mode or hard mode.
[22:17.160 -> 22:19.080] And what we're spending time on now
[22:19.080 -> 22:21.360] is we're spending time correcting decisions,
[22:21.360 -> 22:23.360] we're spending time making up for mistakes,
[22:23.360 -> 22:25.880] we're spending time doing all of these other things.
[22:25.880 -> 22:28.080] And when you start being more conscious about these things,
[22:28.080 -> 22:31.200] you actually have more time because you make fewer mistakes.
[22:31.200 -> 22:33.160] Most of our time at the office is spent
[22:33.160 -> 22:35.560] fixing miscommunication problems,
[22:35.560 -> 22:37.320] they're fixing relationship problems,
[22:37.320 -> 22:40.000] they're fixing, you know, when our ego got ahold of us
[22:40.000 -> 22:41.800] and we said something maybe we shouldn't have said,
[22:41.800 -> 22:44.160] or we did something we shouldn't have done.
[22:44.160 -> 22:47.360] And so you can recognize in the moment
[22:47.360 -> 22:48.640] that these things are happening.
[22:48.640 -> 22:50.840] The idea is to prevent these situations
[22:50.840 -> 22:52.760] from happening in the first place.
[22:52.760 -> 22:56.260] A great example is saying, yes, you're a people pleaser.
[22:56.260 -> 22:58.720] So I was at Daniel Kahneman's apartment in New York,
[22:58.720 -> 23:00.840] and he was on the phone with somebody,
[23:00.840 -> 23:02.440] and as he was about to hang up, he's like,
[23:02.440 -> 23:05.120] my rule is I don't say yes on the phone.
[23:05.120 -> 23:06.120] And then he hangs up.
[23:06.120 -> 23:08.080] And I was like, hold on here.
[23:08.080 -> 23:10.640] Whoa, tell me more about this.
[23:10.640 -> 23:14.720] And he's like, oh, I tend to say yes, because I'm a people pleaser, social, right?
[23:14.720 -> 23:16.560] I want to please people.
[23:16.560 -> 23:18.240] And I was like, you're a people pleaser?
[23:18.240 -> 23:19.240] This is crazy.
[23:19.240 -> 23:23.080] Anyways, so he's like, I used to say yes, like 80% of the time, and then I end up spending
[23:23.080 -> 23:26.920] all of my time doing these things that I didn't want to do.
[23:26.920 -> 23:29.100] And so he's like, I devised a rule.
[23:29.100 -> 23:32.360] And the rule is I don't say yes on the phone.
[23:32.360 -> 23:33.720] And I was like, okay, so what happens?
[23:33.720 -> 23:37.700] He's like, well, you know, the next day I go back and over email, I or my assistant,
[23:37.700 -> 23:39.240] you know, politely sort of declined.
[23:39.240 -> 23:42.240] You have these things after I have a chance to think about it though, right?
[23:42.240 -> 23:44.480] Like I don't need to decide on the spot.
[23:44.480 -> 23:47.880] And he's like, I probably say yes, like 10% of the time now. And I'm like,
[23:47.880 -> 23:52.300] this is the most powerful thing you've ever done. Right? Like I know you've studied, you've
[23:52.300 -> 23:57.780] won a Nobel Prize, but this is like, this is Nobel Prize. And I was like, what other
[23:57.780 -> 24:02.840] rules do you have? And he's like, none. And I was like, what? So I went away from that
[24:02.840 -> 24:06.120] conversation. I'm like, how can I create these automatic rules
[24:06.120 -> 24:08.480] for success to avoid situations
[24:08.480 -> 24:12.280] or put myself in the best position possible in the moment?
[24:12.280 -> 24:14.520] And I was like, you know what I'm gonna try it with?
[24:14.520 -> 24:16.960] I'm gonna try it with working out.
[24:16.960 -> 24:17.800] Cool.
[24:17.800 -> 24:19.500] I don't know about you guys, I don't like working out.
[24:19.500 -> 24:20.680] I don't like sweating every day.
[24:20.680 -> 24:22.200] I don't like doing this stuff.
[24:22.200 -> 24:23.080] I mean, it's a grind.
[24:23.080 -> 24:25.000] There's people there running, you know, they're full sprinting, they're not even sweating. I'm like every day. I don't like doing this stuff. I mean, it's a grind. There's people there running,
[24:25.000 -> 24:26.440] you know, they're full sprinting.
[24:26.440 -> 24:27.800] They're not even sweating.
[24:27.800 -> 24:29.200] I'm like barely moving.
[24:29.200 -> 24:30.400] There's like drips of sweat.
[24:30.400 -> 24:32.440] I'm like dying on the treadmill.
[24:32.440 -> 24:33.840] And so I don't like it.
[24:33.840 -> 24:34.660] I don't enjoy it,
[24:34.660 -> 24:36.200] but I want to do it because I want to be healthy
[24:36.200 -> 24:38.320] and I want to put myself in a good position.
[24:38.320 -> 24:40.080] So I was like, what was happening
[24:40.080 -> 24:42.640] was I was working out three days a week
[24:42.640 -> 24:44.960] on the recommendation of a personal trainer.
[24:44.960 -> 24:45.060] And I was following this workout regimen and I would wake up, days a week on the recommendation of a personal trainer.
[24:45.060 -> 24:49.000] And I was following this workout regimen and I would wake up, you know, on whatever day
[24:49.000 -> 24:51.000] and I was supposed to work out that day.
[24:51.000 -> 24:53.700] And then I'd be like, oh man, I'm so tired.
[24:53.700 -> 24:55.280] I didn't sleep well last night.
[24:55.280 -> 24:57.440] I had a lot on my plate today.
[24:57.440 -> 25:00.000] And then I would start negotiating with myself.
[25:00.000 -> 25:02.400] And that negotiation would be, I will do extra tomorrow.
[25:02.400 -> 25:04.740] These little lies we tell ourselves, right?
[25:04.740 -> 25:07.560] And then tomorrow would come and, you come and inevitably I wouldn't do extra.
[25:07.560 -> 25:09.120] I probably wouldn't even go to the gym.
[25:09.120 -> 25:13.720] And so I went to the gym and I was like, I want to know all the, I scan my fob every
[25:13.720 -> 25:14.720] time I'm here.
[25:14.720 -> 25:17.780] I want a printout of every day that I've been here.
[25:17.780 -> 25:19.760] So I was supposed to be working out three days a week.
[25:19.760 -> 25:23.440] I ended up in practice working out one and a half days a week.
[25:23.440 -> 25:24.920] And I was like, oh, this isn't working.
[25:24.920 -> 25:26.000] I'm going to create a rule. And that rule is going oh, this isn't working. I'm gonna create a rule.
[25:26.000 -> 25:28.720] And that rule is gonna be, I go to the gym every day.
[25:28.720 -> 25:29.840] I sweat every day.
[25:29.840 -> 25:30.880] I say I go to the gym,
[25:30.880 -> 25:32.840] but it's like I do a workout every day.
[25:32.840 -> 25:34.560] It doesn't mean I'm at the gym.
[25:34.560 -> 25:35.920] And ever since I've done that,
[25:35.920 -> 25:37.840] it changed the negotiation with myself
[25:37.840 -> 25:40.880] from am I gonna work out today
[25:40.880 -> 25:44.260] to how does that workout look today?
[25:44.260 -> 25:47.100] And it's a very powerful and subtle change.
[25:47.100 -> 25:51.480] Now, I might change the duration or scope of my workout,
[25:51.480 -> 25:52.840] and that's entirely cool.
[25:52.840 -> 25:55.960] I could go to the gym, just do squats and leave.
[25:55.960 -> 25:58.760] I might just go for a 20 minute run.
[25:58.760 -> 26:01.160] That's fine, that doesn't matter.
[26:01.160 -> 26:02.880] Some days I'll go for 90 minutes.
[26:02.880 -> 26:04.200] That's great, if I have more time,
[26:04.200 -> 26:10.040] more time the better, But I go every day. And since then, I think it's been three years almost
[26:10.040 -> 26:13.420] since I've done this or two and a half years. And I probably missed, I don't know, maybe
[26:13.420 -> 26:15.620] 10 days over that period of time.
[26:15.620 -> 26:20.080] So how do you get yourself to the point where that becomes a non-negotiable for you?
[26:20.080 -> 26:23.940] You make it a rule. And so what do we know about rules? We've been taught our whole life
[26:23.940 -> 26:27.160] to follow rules. We don't question them, we just follow them.
[26:27.160 -> 26:28.520] I don't have to remind you every day
[26:28.520 -> 26:29.880] to follow the speed limit.
[26:29.880 -> 26:30.720] Yeah.
[26:30.720 -> 26:31.560] You were taught once.
[26:31.560 -> 26:32.760] But this is your rule though, so it's easy to break
[26:32.760 -> 26:34.640] because you can just break your own rule.
[26:34.640 -> 26:35.960] No one will know it's your rule.
[26:35.960 -> 26:38.160] You'll know, right?
[26:38.160 -> 26:40.360] But when you tell yourself it's a rule,
[26:40.360 -> 26:42.280] it has a different impact on you.
[26:42.280 -> 26:44.460] Not only do you think differently,
[26:44.460 -> 26:45.640] other people think differently.
[26:45.640 -> 26:47.640] So going back to the social default again,
[26:47.640 -> 26:50.580] if your rule is I don't eat dessert.
[26:50.580 -> 26:51.420] Now think about that.
[26:51.420 -> 26:53.560] You wanna eat healthier, you go out with your friends,
[26:53.560 -> 26:56.080] they're nudging you to eat dessert, to celebrate,
[26:56.080 -> 26:58.480] to you can start your diet tomorrow,
[26:58.480 -> 27:01.440] but if you say my rule is I don't eat dessert,
[27:01.440 -> 27:03.640] all you have to do is say my rule is that.
[27:03.640 -> 27:07.680] They'll push back a little bit the first time then they'll stop pushing back and you're not thinking
[27:07.680 -> 27:11.760] you're not using willpower in that moment so the willpower is gone. So this
[27:11.760 -> 27:15.040] is where we get into trouble is because we're relying on willpower and
[27:15.040 -> 27:19.000] everybody eventually loses the battle with willpower. So you want to
[27:19.000 -> 27:23.040] circumvent the whole problem. Ideally you prevent the situation from happening but
[27:23.040 -> 27:29.600] if you can't prevent it you can rewire your brain so that you just work around it. And the rules tend to work
[27:29.600 -> 27:35.560] really effectively for 99% of people. You create a rule. You've created it. You're powered
[27:35.560 -> 27:38.920] for it. You don't have to create a rule for life. It can be a rule for a week. It can
[27:38.920 -> 27:43.040] be a rule for a day. It can be, you know, I'm going to try this rule for 30 days and
[27:43.040 -> 27:48.600] see what happens. You just need to follow your rule and you've been taught your whole life to follow rules.
[27:48.600 -> 27:50.880] You don't question rules, you just follow them.
[27:50.880 -> 27:55.560] But we've never been taught how to take advantage of rules to get what we want out of life.
[27:55.560 -> 28:00.280] And it's these ordinary moments that I want to sort of skip forward a little bit before
[28:00.280 -> 28:03.480] we talk about how do we overcome some of these defaults.
[28:03.480 -> 28:08.400] Because one of my favorite interviews that I've heard you do is with Carl Pilmer.
[28:08.400 -> 28:11.440] Would you tell us a little bit more about that interview?
[28:11.440 -> 28:17.080] So Carl Pilmer went around and interviewed people near death.
[28:17.080 -> 28:21.280] And he said, what would you like to teach people who have their whole life in front
[28:21.280 -> 28:22.320] of them?
[28:22.320 -> 28:26.120] What wisdom do you have that we can share with everybody else?
[28:26.120 -> 28:30.040] And it was surprisingly common what people said, right?
[28:30.040 -> 28:32.920] It was play by your own scoreboard.
[28:32.920 -> 28:34.680] Make sure that you're playing your own game.
[28:34.680 -> 28:37.600] You're not listening to other people about what they think is best for you.
[28:37.600 -> 28:41.000] You're consciously doing what you think is best for you.
[28:41.000 -> 28:45.400] Spend more time with family and friends because that matters way more than you think it does.
[28:45.400 -> 28:47.480] And you won't realize that until you're basically
[28:47.480 -> 28:49.020] in your fifties and sixties,
[28:49.920 -> 28:53.880] when it's really a little later and harder to invest
[28:53.880 -> 28:54.880] in those relationships,
[28:54.880 -> 28:57.200] you can't really make amends at that point in time,
[28:57.200 -> 28:58.360] you might be able to make it better,
[28:58.360 -> 29:01.080] but you can't create that bond.
[29:01.080 -> 29:03.520] And I think so often we just forget about these things.
[29:03.520 -> 29:05.040] And these are the ordinary moments.
[29:05.040 -> 29:10.720] We're taught to focus on who to marry, who to work for, what city to live in. And these big
[29:10.720 -> 29:15.840] decisions we tend to think we generally are rational about them. It doesn't mean we're
[29:15.840 -> 29:20.640] perfectly correct about them, but it means we're directionally correct about them because we're
[29:20.640 -> 29:30.460] thinking about them. But nobody's thinking about the ordinary moments, which is when I go home, am I fighting with my spouse about the dishwasher? Am I going
[29:30.460 -> 29:34.920] to work and working my butt off each day? Because it doesn't matter if I pick the best
[29:34.920 -> 29:39.920] job in the world or have the best boss in the world. If I don't show up, if I don't
[29:39.920 -> 29:49.900] go all in, if I don't work my butt off, all of that gets multiplied by zero. The same as my partner, if I don't invest in that relationship constantly, what happens?
[29:49.900 -> 29:52.720] Well, it just gets multiplied by zero.
[29:52.720 -> 29:57.000] And my friend Peter Kaufman has this great analogy, which I find very visual and very
[29:57.000 -> 30:03.080] useful, which is imagine a patch of grass between you and everybody in your life, patch
[30:03.080 -> 30:09.240] of grass between you and your kids, you and your partner at home, you and your parents.
[30:09.240 -> 30:11.960] And if you water that grass every day
[30:11.960 -> 30:13.880] and watering it looks like connection,
[30:13.880 -> 30:15.400] watering it looks like time,
[30:15.400 -> 30:17.480] watering it looks like whatever it looks like
[30:17.480 -> 30:18.880] in the context of your relationship,
[30:18.880 -> 30:21.960] but you have a general sense of what watering it looks like.
[30:21.960 -> 30:24.600] Well, a spark, what's gonna happen to wet grass?
[30:24.600 -> 30:26.920] Nothing, just dies.
[30:26.920 -> 30:31.040] But if you don't water it, the grass starts to dry out.
[30:31.040 -> 30:33.440] And if the grass gets dry, what happens with the spark?
[30:33.440 -> 30:34.920] It starts a fire.
[30:34.920 -> 30:36.580] And you can feel this in households.
[30:36.580 -> 30:38.200] I mean, we've all been at friends' houses
[30:38.200 -> 30:41.680] where a little comment by a partner,
[30:41.680 -> 30:44.640] and then all of a sudden there's an escalation and a fight.
[30:44.640 -> 30:48.000] That's dry grass. That's what happens when your grass is dry.
[30:48.000 -> 30:53.000] So how do you keep your grass well watered when you're as busy as you are?
[30:53.000 -> 30:57.000] Because I think I'm learning so many things here.
[30:57.000 -> 31:01.000] The biggest thing I'm thinking about at the moment is I seem to spend my life at the moment saying to everyone,
[31:01.000 -> 31:07.880] I have no time. I'm so busy. Every day my wife wakes up and says, I'm so tired. Even though we're sleeping for six, seven, eight hours a night,
[31:07.880 -> 31:10.680] you know, we're getting what you'd say is enough sleep, and every person with me on
[31:10.680 -> 31:15.520] the school run, I'm so exhausted at the moment, I feel like I've never been busier. And it
[31:15.520 -> 31:21.360] feels to me like none of us are watering the grass around us, it feels like we're all thinking
[31:21.360 -> 31:25.020] life is about these big decisions rather than trying to position ourselves
[31:25.020 -> 31:26.640] in these ordinary moments.
[31:26.640 -> 31:31.480] And therefore we're almost trapped in this constant cycle of having not enough time,
[31:31.480 -> 31:34.880] feeling overly stressed, feeling undernourished and undernourished by those around us.
[31:34.880 -> 31:35.880] Is that fair?
[31:35.880 -> 31:36.880] Totally.
[31:36.880 -> 31:39.600] So how many priorities do you have?
[31:39.600 -> 31:41.220] Loads.
[31:41.220 -> 31:49.940] So if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority, right? So what's happening for you is, if I can't distinguish my top two or three priorities
[31:49.940 -> 31:54.040] from everything else, then that's how we tend to feel.
[31:54.040 -> 31:56.320] So one of the symptoms...
[31:56.320 -> 31:58.360] That's because I feel I have to give my everything to everything.
[31:58.360 -> 32:00.840] Yeah, but you can't give your everything to everything.
[32:00.840 -> 32:04.640] And when you try to give your everything to everything, the first thing to go is you.
[32:04.640 -> 32:07.800] And what I mean by that is you start sacrificing
[32:07.800 -> 32:09.240] your health, your sleep,
[32:09.240 -> 32:11.240] you start sacrificing your mood, your workouts,
[32:11.240 -> 32:13.680] you start sacrificing the core things
[32:13.680 -> 32:15.400] that determine easier hard mode.
[32:15.400 -> 32:18.480] So now all of a sudden you start playing on hard mode
[32:18.480 -> 32:20.300] and then everything gets harder and harder
[32:20.300 -> 32:22.280] and then it feels like a grind
[32:22.280 -> 32:24.880] and then you get set off by the slightest comment
[32:24.880 -> 32:27.380] and all of a sudden what happens?
[32:27.380 -> 32:29.500] You get multiplied by zero.
[32:29.500 -> 32:32.580] All these things that you're trying to do and you're well intentioned and you have all
[32:32.580 -> 32:36.100] these interesting projects but they can't all take the same weight on you.
[32:36.100 -> 32:39.180] And if you're spreading your time, if you have 10 blocks of time a day and you spread
[32:39.180 -> 32:43.620] them over 10 projects, that's one block of time a day per project.
[32:43.620 -> 32:45.620] You're not going to move very fast. I mean you're going to feel busy. There's lots of time a day per project. You're not gonna move very fast.
[32:45.620 -> 32:46.740] I mean, you're gonna feel busy.
[32:46.740 -> 32:49.140] There's lots of switching costs associated with that,
[32:49.140 -> 32:50.860] but you're not gonna get anywhere.
[32:50.860 -> 32:53.340] And so what you really have to do in this case,
[32:53.340 -> 32:54.940] and I'm an advocate of this,
[32:54.940 -> 32:58.020] and there's no judgment for how other people
[32:58.020 -> 33:00.020] choose to allocate their time.
[33:00.020 -> 33:01.620] I think you need to narrow things down
[33:01.620 -> 33:04.020] to two or three priorities.
[33:04.020 -> 33:08.640] These are my focus. And if building a relationship and maintaining that relationship with my
[33:08.640 -> 33:12.160] partner matters to me, I should be able to see that in your calendar.
[33:12.160 -> 33:15.600] So don't tell me your priorities, show me your calendar.
[33:15.600 -> 33:18.160] Because I think the answer is I just have to work harder.
[33:18.160 -> 33:19.320] I have to get up earlier.
[33:19.320 -> 33:20.560] I have to go to bed later.
[33:20.560 -> 33:21.900] Do you know what I mean?
[33:21.900 -> 33:24.720] Because you think that if you can pack more into a day, you can get more done, therefore
[33:24.720 -> 33:26.320] you can please more people.
[33:26.320 -> 33:30.240] So I learned this working at the intelligence agency, right? This is what I thought. I could
[33:30.240 -> 33:34.740] take on more projects, I could do more things. Just for context, I started working at a three-letter
[33:34.740 -> 33:40.560] agency, the Canadian equivalent of GCHQ. So I started working for them two weeks before
[33:40.560 -> 33:46.940] September 11th. September 11th happens, the world changes. I basically work with an incredible group
[33:46.940 -> 33:48.160] of talented people.
[33:48.160 -> 33:50.540] I don't leave the building almost for like seven years.
[33:50.540 -> 33:52.880] And I say that a bit hyperbolically,
[33:52.880 -> 33:54.960] but it wasn't far from the truth either.
[33:54.960 -> 33:59.240] And so what was happening is I was sacrificing my health.
[33:59.240 -> 34:00.560] I was sacrificing my sleep.
[34:00.560 -> 34:01.800] I was being less productive.
[34:01.800 -> 34:03.260] I was being, you know,
[34:03.260 -> 34:08.680] not making the best decisions I could be making all because I wanted to do my best.
[34:08.680 -> 34:12.440] And that was the story I was telling myself and what I didn't realize, and it took me
[34:12.440 -> 34:15.800] almost falling over basically with exhaustion.
[34:15.800 -> 34:21.240] The moment of realization for me was I finally went on a vacation, I think it was 2007.
[34:21.240 -> 34:24.800] And I went to Italy, and I slept for three weeks.
[34:24.800 -> 34:26.280] I barely left my hotel room.
[34:26.280 -> 34:30.240] I slept 16 hours a day and I was so exhausted and so tired.
[34:30.240 -> 34:31.800] And I was like, what am I doing to myself?
[34:31.800 -> 34:34.160] Like this isn't, what do I really care about?
[34:34.160 -> 34:35.400] What do I really want to accomplish?
[34:35.400 -> 34:37.440] How do I allocate my time to those things?
[34:37.440 -> 34:39.360] So it's actually counterintuitive,
[34:39.360 -> 34:43.200] but doing less leads to doing more because you,
[34:43.200 -> 34:46.080] you know, your priorities, you know your limits. These
[34:46.080 -> 34:51.820] side projects, you know the bottom seven projects for you, maybe if you have 10, they're nice
[34:51.820 -> 34:57.180] to have. And if you want to allocate time to them, hire somebody and delegate them and
[34:57.180 -> 34:59.160] sort of oversee them a little bit.
[34:59.160 -> 35:02.000] So show me your calendar. What does it say?
[35:02.000 -> 35:05.640] So the way that I choose to do this is a couple of folds.
[35:05.640 -> 35:08.840] So, one, not everybody can do this.
[35:08.840 -> 35:12.160] When I worked at the intelligence agency, I used to block off an hour or two in the
[35:12.160 -> 35:13.920] morning just for me.
[35:13.920 -> 35:15.720] And I couldn't do it when I first started doing this.
[35:15.720 -> 35:17.600] I had to go six months out my calendar.
[35:17.600 -> 35:20.600] And I went six months out and I started blocking off an hour each day.
[35:20.600 -> 35:24.120] I booked a meeting with myself so nobody could overbook that meeting.
[35:24.120 -> 35:28.840] That was the most effective hour a day in the whole, I did more work in that one hour
[35:28.840 -> 35:32.480] than I did in the other seven, eight, nine, ten hours at work. It didn't matter. That
[35:32.480 -> 35:36.440] hour was mine. It was untouchable. And what would you do like, what kind of questions
[35:36.440 -> 35:40.520] would you ask yourself in that hour? Well, what's the most valuable opportunity I can
[35:40.520 -> 35:47.480] work on right now? Sometimes that's an operation at work. Sometimes that's developing one of my employees.
[35:47.480 -> 35:51.460] Sometimes that's just investing in myself and learning a new skill.
[35:51.460 -> 35:55.120] Sometimes that's thinking about positioning myself for what I want to do next.
[35:55.120 -> 35:59.840] The judgment of what to spend that time on is almost less important than you have it
[35:59.840 -> 36:02.200] blocked off and you don't have to find the time.
[36:02.200 -> 36:05.700] And so now I'm in much more control of my calendar.
[36:05.700 -> 36:09.100] There's very few exceptions to this when I'm not traveling,
[36:09.100 -> 36:11.740] I don't book anything before 12.
[36:11.740 -> 36:13.180] So there's nothing in my morning.
[36:13.180 -> 36:14.620] And what do I have all morning to do?
[36:14.620 -> 36:16.420] I can focus on the biggest opportunity.
[36:16.420 -> 36:19.500] I can focus on the thing that is most important
[36:19.500 -> 36:20.700] on that given day.
[36:20.700 -> 36:22.200] I can focus on the biggest project.
[36:22.200 -> 36:30.680] I don't have to find time to work on these things. The time exists. And then how do I prioritize? Well, you can pick one priority
[36:30.680 -> 36:36.480] at home and two priorities at work. That's it. What are the two critical things that
[36:36.480 -> 36:40.940] you need to work on at work? What are the critical things that you need to do at home?
[36:40.940 -> 36:44.880] And at home, it always involves investing in your relationship almost always, right?
[36:44.880 -> 36:49.680] Am I making time for the people that I love? Am I showing up in the way that I want to
[36:49.680 -> 36:50.680] show up?
[36:50.680 -> 36:54.640] So my calendar looks more like this, right? That many things on tomorrow.
[36:54.640 -> 36:56.840] That's a day. Oh my God.
[36:56.840 -> 37:04.120] So that is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, that's 14 things in the calendar for
[37:04.120 -> 37:07.000] tomorrow. You just saw mine. I think the busiest day you saw was like three things.
[37:07.000 -> 37:08.000] Three things.
[37:08.000 -> 37:09.000] Yeah.
[37:09.000 -> 37:13.000] Not a single one of those things is anything to do with what I really love, which is my
[37:13.000 -> 37:14.000] wife and kids.
[37:14.000 -> 37:15.000] Yeah.
[37:15.000 -> 37:16.960] Mad when you look at it like that, isn't it?
[37:16.960 -> 37:18.520] It's something to reflect on, right?
[37:18.520 -> 37:27.000] And a good thought experiment for people to do is sort of imagine you're 90 and you're in a coma at the hospital and you are near
[37:27.000 -> 37:31.920] death and everybody is gathered around you and you can hear them, but they don't know
[37:31.920 -> 37:35.420] that you can hear them and they start talking about you.
[37:35.420 -> 37:38.780] And what is it that you want them to be saying?
[37:38.780 -> 37:44.160] And then am I living my life in a way that is gonna lead to people saying those things
[37:44.160 -> 37:45.160] about me?
[37:45.160 -> 37:48.120] Or am I chasing things that I don't really want?
[37:48.120 -> 37:50.460] Am I giving up what's really important to me
[37:50.460 -> 37:52.920] going after something I don't really need?
[37:52.920 -> 37:55.520] And so often, this is the lessons for the living.
[37:55.520 -> 37:57.960] And I mean, Carl didn't spell it out that way,
[37:57.960 -> 37:59.920] but what you're doing is you're trading
[37:59.920 -> 38:01.520] part of yourself today.
[38:01.520 -> 38:03.200] You're giving up something you do want,
[38:03.200 -> 38:05.960] which is that relationship with your wife and your kids.
[38:05.960 -> 38:09.460] And you're sacrificing it for something you maybe do need,
[38:09.460 -> 38:10.960] maybe you don't need.
[38:10.960 -> 38:12.360] There's no judgment on my part
[38:12.360 -> 38:14.420] about what people choose to do with their time.
[38:14.420 -> 38:17.420] I just want people to be conscious about what they're doing.
[38:20.660 -> 38:24.400] Today's High Performance Podcast is in association with AG1.
[38:24.400 -> 38:25.160] And actually, the last couple of weeks has been a great reminder to me association with AG1 and actually the
[38:25.160 -> 38:29.020] last couple of weeks has been a great reminder to me about why AG1 is so
[38:29.020 -> 38:32.300] important for me because I've been on the road, 10 different cities in eight
[38:32.300 -> 38:35.660] days, four different countries and the fact I've been living out of a suitcase,
[38:35.660 -> 38:39.980] I haven't had my routine, means actually I have missed taking my AG1 in the
[38:39.980 -> 38:44.180] mornings and I have honestly noticed the difference. I've had a drop in energy, I
[38:44.180 -> 38:45.240] haven't felt great
[38:45.240 -> 38:49.200] because for me, AG1 is my daily nutritional insurance.
[38:49.200 -> 38:51.660] It's good for my energy, it's great for my guts,
[38:51.660 -> 38:55.400] it's full of multivitamins and minerals, pre and probiotics.
[38:55.400 -> 38:58.480] It's all my key health products in just one drink.
[38:58.480 -> 39:01.120] And I've got a great offer for you from AG1.
[39:01.120 -> 39:03.000] If you're looking for a simple, effective investment
[39:03.000 -> 39:09.240] for your health, you can get five free AG1 travel packs and a free one-year supply of vitamin D with your first
[39:09.240 -> 39:15.600] purchase. Just go to drinkag1.com forward slash high performance. That's drinkag1.com
[39:15.600 -> 39:22.700] forward slash high performance to try AG1 for yourself.
[39:22.700 -> 39:28.000] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns.
[39:28.000 -> 39:33.720] But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B, and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either.
[39:33.720 -> 39:37.800] That's why if you're a B2B marketer, you should use LinkedIn ads.
[39:37.800 -> 39:41.760] LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional
[39:41.760 -> 39:42.760] audience.
[39:42.760 -> 39:46.760] That's right, over 70 million decision makers all in one place.
[39:46.760 -> 39:52.200] All the big wigs, then medium wigs, also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs.
[39:52.200 -> 39:54.280] Okay, that's enough about wigs.
[39:54.280 -> 39:58.720] LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[39:58.720 -> 40:03.880] So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
[40:03.880 -> 40:05.560] voice in the world?
[40:05.560 -> 40:07.400] Yes, yes it does.
[40:07.400 -> 40:09.520] Get started today and see why LinkedIn
[40:09.520 -> 40:11.960] is the place to be, to be.
[40:11.960 -> 40:15.240] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
[40:15.240 -> 40:18.400] Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit.
[40:18.400 -> 40:20.700] That's linkedin.com slash results.
[40:20.700 -> 40:22.800] Terms and conditions apply.
[40:22.800 -> 40:23.760] Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.
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[40:55.280 -> 40:59.680] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can
[40:59.680 -> 41:04.320] live a better life. And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share.
[41:04.320 -> 41:05.520] So Mint Mobile ditched
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[42:27.000 -> 42:29.000] Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply.
[42:29.000 -> 42:31.000] See Mint Mobile for details.
[42:35.000 -> 42:37.000] Why does it matter so much to you?
[42:37.000 -> 42:39.000] Why did you decide this was your path?
[42:39.000 -> 42:44.000] Well, I ended up making operational decisions that affected my team, my country,
[42:44.000 -> 42:45.580] other countries, troops
[42:45.580 -> 42:47.600] in theater, people's lives.
[42:47.600 -> 42:52.860] And I wanted to make sure that I was making the best decisions that I could make.
[42:52.860 -> 42:59.240] And so I just got really interested in studying how the best in the world seemed to consistently
[42:59.240 -> 43:01.080] get better outcomes than the rest of us.
[43:01.080 -> 43:05.200] And at first my thought was, oh, they're so much smarter than the rest of us. And at first my thought was, oh, they're so much smarter than the rest of us.
[43:05.200 -> 43:06.320] And the conclusion,
[43:06.320 -> 43:08.880] the surprising sort of counterintuitive conclusion
[43:08.880 -> 43:12.560] is that they're really good at positioning themselves.
[43:12.560 -> 43:14.680] So they're never forced by circumstances
[43:14.680 -> 43:16.040] into a bad decision.
[43:16.040 -> 43:17.120] And if you think about that,
[43:17.120 -> 43:20.800] they're basically almost always playing on easy mode.
[43:20.800 -> 43:22.760] And if you hold up most people
[43:22.760 -> 43:24.680] that we would think of as incredibly successful,
[43:24.680 -> 43:25.440] like Rockefeller,
[43:25.440 -> 43:30.080] Carnegie, Buffett, the list goes on, they're always playing offense.
[43:30.080 -> 43:35.800] They're always in a position where it doesn't matter if the stock market goes up or down,
[43:35.800 -> 43:36.800] they can do something.
[43:36.800 -> 43:38.880] They can take advantage of the situation.
[43:38.880 -> 43:40.400] Buffett's a great example.
[43:40.400 -> 43:45.100] Right now Berkshire Hathaway is $150 billion on the balance sheet in cash.
[43:45.100 -> 43:47.700] So the stock market goes up, he wins.
[43:47.700 -> 43:49.560] Stock market stays the same, he wins.
[43:49.560 -> 43:52.160] Stock market tanks, he's giddy.
[43:52.160 -> 43:54.080] Because now he can deploy all this money.
[43:54.080 -> 44:00.140] So no matter what happens, he's put himself in a position where success is almost inevitable.
[44:00.140 -> 44:03.500] And I was like, whoa, what does that mean in the context of our lives?
[44:03.500 -> 44:04.820] What is it that we're not doing?
[44:04.820 -> 44:06.360] How is it that we don't think about this?
[44:06.360 -> 44:09.280] Well, we're so busy trying to predict the future
[44:09.280 -> 44:10.800] that we forget we can position
[44:10.800 -> 44:13.040] for multiple possible futures.
[44:13.040 -> 44:15.080] And I think that that's a really powerful
[44:15.080 -> 44:17.600] counterintuitive insight that helps a lot of people.
[44:17.600 -> 44:19.520] Would you say a little bit more about that?
[44:19.520 -> 44:23.080] So we're trying to guess what's going to happen.
[44:23.080 -> 44:25.720] We're trying to, I want this promotion.
[44:25.720 -> 44:30.440] I want this sort of, this stock I'm going to go all in on.
[44:30.440 -> 44:34.400] When we do that, we're really betting that we're right.
[44:34.400 -> 44:39.200] And if we were right consistently about stuff, we would already probably be the world's richest
[44:39.200 -> 44:44.220] person and we wouldn't make mistakes at all, but that's not true.
[44:44.220 -> 44:47.600] And what you can do is, I don't know what the future looks like.
[44:47.600 -> 44:51.440] I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring, but I can position myself to take advantage
[44:51.440 -> 44:53.580] of multiple possible scenarios.
[44:53.580 -> 44:55.560] So you can look at wealth building, right?
[44:55.560 -> 45:00.440] Instead of picking an individual stock, index funds work because we can't really consistently
[45:00.440 -> 45:04.560] pick individual stocks as individual investors.
[45:04.560 -> 45:08.760] If we could, we would just pick the winners and ditch the losers, but we can't do that.
[45:08.760 -> 45:10.560] So index funds, we know they work over time.
[45:10.560 -> 45:14.900] So you can position yourself for a possible retirement or financial freedom.
[45:14.900 -> 45:18.920] All you have to do, and we know this, it's historically proven, unless something changes
[45:18.920 -> 45:23.880] in the future, which is really doubtful, but you're a wide range of scenarios, this works.
[45:23.880 -> 45:28.520] You get a mortgage rate and you happen to buy a house that's the most you can afford.
[45:28.520 -> 45:32.520] Well, if you're on a variable rate, you're predicting the future is going to look a lot
[45:32.520 -> 45:34.640] like the past.
[45:34.640 -> 45:39.040] So you put yourself in a position where you unknowingly were predicting what the future
[45:39.040 -> 45:43.320] looked like instead of maybe a fixed rate would have given you more flexibility or maybe
[45:43.320 -> 45:48.660] not buying as big of a house. So you have more margin of safety with whatever happens in the future.
[45:48.660 -> 45:52.740] Whether you get laid off, whether interest rates go up or down, it affects you a lot
[45:52.740 -> 45:53.740] less.
[45:53.740 -> 45:58.220] Now you're positioned for multiple possible futures in a better way than you were before.
[45:58.220 -> 46:02.860] And then you can adapt and take advantage of those situations.
[46:02.860 -> 46:05.800] If you have cash on the sidelines and the stock market tanks,
[46:05.800 -> 46:10.000] all of a sudden I can deploy that cash and then I can use that to my advantage.
[46:10.000 -> 46:14.200] Just because a business is selling for 50 cents doesn't mean it's not worth a dollar.
[46:14.200 -> 46:18.600] And it's unfortunate that other people are forced into selling those shares,
[46:18.600 -> 46:21.400] but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to buy them.
[46:21.400 -> 46:26.560] So what you're moving on to here then Shane is almost like the way that we counter our
[46:26.560 -> 46:27.560] defaults.
[46:27.560 -> 46:29.400] Again, there's four that you talk about.
[46:29.400 -> 46:32.760] The first one is having a level of self-awareness.
[46:32.760 -> 46:38.060] So how can we start to improve their levels of self-awareness?
[46:38.060 -> 46:40.020] Self-awareness is a big one, right?
[46:40.020 -> 46:44.440] Can you openly acknowledge where you're strong, where you're weak, what you're prone to, what
[46:44.440 -> 46:47.960] you're not prone to, the situations that keep getting you in trouble.
[46:47.960 -> 46:53.420] A great example is I have a friend who occasionally gets lonely and they make really bad decisions
[46:53.420 -> 46:55.000] when they get lonely.
[46:55.000 -> 46:58.360] So they finally come to the conclusion, you know, when I'm lonely, I do this.
[46:58.360 -> 47:01.560] And I was like, hey, that's like Alcoholics Anonymous 101, right?
[47:01.560 -> 47:04.540] Halt, hungry, angry, lonely, tired.
[47:04.540 -> 47:06.940] When you are any of these things, you make bad decisions.
[47:06.940 -> 47:10.440] Call your buddy immediately, you can call me, right?
[47:10.440 -> 47:12.500] But you have to recognize first of all,
[47:12.500 -> 47:13.920] what's happening in this situation
[47:13.920 -> 47:15.800] before you can do something about it.
[47:15.800 -> 47:17.400] Now I can do something about it.
[47:17.400 -> 47:19.640] So I can avoid this from happening.
[47:19.640 -> 47:21.720] I can schedule myself a little bit more.
[47:21.720 -> 47:23.560] I can join groups, I can join clubs,
[47:23.560 -> 47:24.700] I can do all of these things.
[47:24.700 -> 47:26.960] But if I'm not aware about what's happening,
[47:26.960 -> 47:28.080] then we have problems.
[47:28.080 -> 47:28.920] How do we solve it?
[47:28.920 -> 47:29.880] It doesn't work.
[47:29.880 -> 47:31.160] I can come to you and tell you,
[47:31.160 -> 47:33.480] but you really have to have it on yourself.
[47:33.480 -> 47:36.200] You need the self accountability, self-awareness,
[47:36.200 -> 47:38.240] self-control, all of these things
[47:38.240 -> 47:40.900] in terms of how you go about doing things.
[47:40.900 -> 47:43.360] And I think that you can get signals
[47:43.360 -> 47:44.880] that things aren't working.
[47:44.880 -> 47:45.040] And the signals that things aren't working.
[47:45.040 -> 47:47.760] And the signals that things aren't working in life
[47:47.760 -> 47:49.880] are the story going through your head
[47:49.880 -> 47:52.920] is it's not my fault, it's the situation.
[47:52.920 -> 47:56.080] I'm waiting for somebody to sort of see me
[47:56.080 -> 47:57.640] for the potential that I have
[47:57.640 -> 48:00.160] and give me the rewards that I deserve.
[48:00.160 -> 48:02.440] These are indications that you're not self-aware
[48:02.440 -> 48:04.400] about your contribution to the problem
[48:04.400 -> 48:07.300] because there's always something you're contributing to the situation.
[48:07.300 -> 48:11.300] No matter how big or small that's irrelevant, you're always contributing to it.
[48:11.300 -> 48:14.900] So you have to start asking, what am I doing that's contributing to this problem?
[48:14.900 -> 48:17.400] And that's the dawning of self-awareness.
[48:17.400 -> 48:20.100] So you spoke about that holiday in Italy,
[48:20.100 -> 48:25.280] where you decided 16 hours sleeping on a three week holiday is not productive
[48:25.280 -> 48:29.120] and your story for seven years at the agency was,
[48:29.120 -> 48:32.080] I'm doing my best, I have to work hard.
[48:32.080 -> 48:35.280] What was the story that you changed internally for yourself then?
[48:35.280 -> 48:38.080] Well, I came back, I switched jobs almost immediately.
[48:38.080 -> 48:41.120] I was like, I don't want to do that particular job anymore.
[48:41.120 -> 48:46.620] It was too demanding in a way that I couldn't be happy in life and do that job.
[48:46.620 -> 48:48.280] I could be great at that job,
[48:48.280 -> 48:52.100] but I couldn't be great at that job and be happy in life.
[48:52.100 -> 48:54.300] And that was what I sort of realized was like,
[48:54.300 -> 48:55.480] I was trying to do too much.
[48:55.480 -> 48:58.380] That job was great, but that job requires you going all in
[48:58.380 -> 49:00.340] and I don't wanna go all in anymore.
[49:00.340 -> 49:01.660] So I'm gonna give that job to somebody
[49:01.660 -> 49:03.440] who does wanna go all in.
[49:03.440 -> 49:07.340] And they can put 100% of their effort into it because that's what everybody I'm working
[49:07.340 -> 49:08.340] with deserves.
[49:08.340 -> 49:11.360] They deserve somebody who's going to put a hundred percent of their effort into that
[49:11.360 -> 49:17.160] job and I've decided I'm not going to put a hundred percent of my effort into that job.
[49:17.160 -> 49:20.880] But that requires the ability to step away from almost like the social pressures of being
[49:20.880 -> 49:27.200] successful at a highly respected agency, society would assume that
[49:27.200 -> 49:30.680] you should be happy because you're professionally successful.
[49:30.680 -> 49:36.040] Well, society tells us to be happy if we chase money, power, fame.
[49:36.040 -> 49:40.320] But what we've learned through people near the end of life is that none of those things
[49:40.320 -> 49:41.320] matter.
[49:41.320 -> 49:47.500] The richest, most successful, most famous people are no happier and often more miserable,
[49:47.500 -> 49:51.160] I know lots of them than we are generally speaking.
[49:51.160 -> 49:53.900] And I think the most important thing that we can do in life
[49:53.900 -> 49:56.500] is pause, wait a second.
[49:56.500 -> 49:59.420] It's one thing to pursue these things.
[49:59.420 -> 50:02.420] If I'm conscious about what I'm doing,
[50:02.420 -> 50:04.980] I'm not saying don't chase money, power, fame.
[50:04.980 -> 50:05.000] If that's what you wanna do, go all in on it. But are you doing it because you want to I'm conscious about what I'm doing. I'm not saying don't chase money, power, fame.
[50:05.000 -> 50:08.140] If that's what you want to do, go all in on it.
[50:08.140 -> 50:09.920] But are you doing it because you want to,
[50:09.920 -> 50:12.120] or are you doing it because somebody else told you to?
[50:12.120 -> 50:14.600] And if you're doing it because society has told you
[50:14.600 -> 50:15.940] those things are rewarded,
[50:15.940 -> 50:18.260] those things are the things you need to chase,
[50:18.260 -> 50:19.360] you're gonna wake up one day
[50:19.360 -> 50:21.240] and you're gonna feel very hollow.
[50:21.240 -> 50:23.600] And I think that you need to take control of your life.
[50:23.600 -> 50:24.680] And what does that mean?
[50:24.680 -> 50:27.080] I set my own scoreboard.
[50:27.080 -> 50:28.720] I play by my own rules.
[50:28.720 -> 50:31.520] That doesn't mean I'm not playing by society's rules
[50:31.520 -> 50:34.800] in terms of like tax codes and speed limits and all of that.
[50:34.800 -> 50:36.800] Like it's not a thing where you can go out
[50:36.800 -> 50:38.880] and just break those laws.
[50:38.880 -> 50:43.880] It means I don't care what you think about what I'm doing.
[50:44.040 -> 50:46.160] When I quit the intelligence agency,
[50:46.160 -> 50:50.560] every single person in my life told me I was crazy.
[50:50.560 -> 50:53.720] Every single person from my parents who showed up
[50:53.720 -> 50:57.640] at my door crying, literally crying, my mom in tears,
[50:57.640 -> 50:58.860] you're throwing away the best job,
[50:58.860 -> 51:00.200] you're throwing away your pension,
[51:00.200 -> 51:02.880] you're throwing away, like, what are you doing?
[51:02.880 -> 51:05.040] And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
[51:05.040 -> 51:08.760] And I am the one in control of my life.
[51:08.760 -> 51:10.960] I'm not going to do this because I'm guilted into it.
[51:10.960 -> 51:14.120] I'm not going to do it because you feel I should be doing it.
[51:14.120 -> 51:16.880] I'm going to do this because this is what I want to do.
[51:16.880 -> 51:18.920] And if I fail doing what I want to do,
[51:18.920 -> 51:21.080] that's a better place for me to be
[51:21.080 -> 51:23.720] than succeeding at something I don't want to do.
[51:23.720 -> 51:24.560] See, and I love that.
[51:24.560 -> 51:27.920] And I admire the courage to do it. and I know that we get a lot of listeners
[51:27.920 -> 51:32.000] that want to set their own scoreboard.
[51:32.000 -> 51:36.800] And I'm interested in how did you go about identifying what you were going to score your
[51:36.800 -> 51:37.800] happiness against?
[51:37.800 -> 51:42.400] Yeah, honestly, I just went for a walk one day and had a conversation with myself and
[51:42.400 -> 51:47.240] sort of I started reflecting on life and I started reflecting on what do I really value?
[51:47.240 -> 51:50.420] And money wasn't part of it, freedom of time was.
[51:50.420 -> 51:51.940] And so if I want freedom of time
[51:51.940 -> 51:53.820] and I wanna control my own time
[51:53.820 -> 51:57.020] and I wanna be responsible for my own outcomes,
[51:57.020 -> 51:59.060] I don't wanna work in an organization anymore
[51:59.060 -> 52:00.900] because I'm finding all these meetings
[52:00.900 -> 52:03.700] and this bureaucracy just isn't serving me anymore.
[52:03.700 -> 52:06.860] And other people have control of my time and they can usurp that and that's really starting
[52:06.860 -> 52:07.860] to bother me.
[52:07.860 -> 52:08.860] Well, that's not going to change.
[52:08.860 -> 52:13.140] I can go to work and pound my head on a brick wall every day and hope that changes, but
[52:13.140 -> 52:17.960] no matter what level I achieve in that organization, that would never change.
[52:17.960 -> 52:20.380] What do people do if they're in the total opposite position of that?
[52:20.380 -> 52:29.500] I'm thinking about someone who has bills to pay, they're in a job that they don't love but they just can't take the risk of leaving that job or they've given up the career
[52:29.500 -> 52:33.840] they love because they've had children and they feel that being home with their children
[52:33.840 -> 52:37.680] is the most important thing to them even though a part of them has died because they're not
[52:37.680 -> 52:39.600] doing that thing that they used to love.
[52:39.600 -> 52:43.680] Well go back to positioning right so there's always something you can do today to put yourself
[52:43.680 -> 52:45.720] in a better position for tomorrow.
[52:45.720 -> 52:51.160] So if you're working at a job that you don't love, then one thing you can do, what is one
[52:51.160 -> 52:56.260] skill I can learn that's going to put me in a position to have better options for jobs?
[52:56.260 -> 52:59.200] Everybody thinks about leaving or quitting.
[52:59.200 -> 53:03.240] It's really hard to get that level of courage when you have a family and you have kids and
[53:03.240 -> 53:04.240] you have...
[53:04.240 -> 53:05.760] I had all of that. I just blew it all up.
[53:05.760 -> 53:08.280] I was like, burned the bridges, got divorced,
[53:08.280 -> 53:10.760] quit my job, cashed my pension in,
[53:10.760 -> 53:13.800] was like, I have two years of money in the bank.
[53:14.920 -> 53:16.280] Were you scared?
[53:16.280 -> 53:19.160] Petrified, yeah, totally.
[53:19.160 -> 53:22.240] And you don't know how it's gonna work out.
[53:22.240 -> 53:23.540] This is why everybody was telling me
[53:23.540 -> 53:25.360] it was the craziest thing ever. I was like, I don't wanna do this anymore. I don't care. Like, gonna work out. This is why everybody was telling me it was the craziest thing ever.
[53:25.360 -> 53:26.820] I was like, I don't wanna do this anymore.
[53:26.820 -> 53:27.660] I don't care.
[53:27.660 -> 53:28.640] Like if I fail, I fail.
[53:28.640 -> 53:32.100] And maybe I go back to the organization.
[53:32.100 -> 53:34.240] I felt like there's a pretty decent shot
[53:34.240 -> 53:37.040] they would hire me again if I went back on bended knee,
[53:37.040 -> 53:39.800] but there was no way in hell I was gonna go back.
[53:39.800 -> 53:41.560] That's why I cashed in my pension.
[53:41.560 -> 53:42.440] And my accountant's like,
[53:42.440 -> 53:44.640] this is the worst financial decision you can make.
[53:44.640 -> 53:48.000] And I was like, but it's the best psychological decision I can make.
[53:48.000 -> 53:50.400] But you're also saying people don't need to do that.
[53:50.400 -> 53:51.400] Exactly.
[53:51.400 -> 53:55.160] So you can just take baby steps, which is like, what is the one thing that I can do
[53:55.160 -> 53:57.360] today to put myself in a better position?
[53:57.360 -> 54:01.040] If my wife and my kids are more valuable, you know, and I'm trying to work a job and
[54:01.040 -> 54:03.240] I'm feeling tied up, what can I give up?
[54:03.240 -> 54:05.940] And how do I allocate that time to my wife and partner?
[54:05.940 -> 54:07.380] And if I can't do that,
[54:07.380 -> 54:11.580] for whatever reason you can't allocate more time to them,
[54:11.580 -> 54:13.180] can I allocate different time?
[54:13.180 -> 54:16.340] Because often what we're doing is we're giving our worst time
[54:16.340 -> 54:17.900] to our partner and our kids.
[54:17.900 -> 54:18.740] And so what I mean by worst time-
[54:18.740 -> 54:20.860] They get the scraps left over at the end of the day.
[54:20.860 -> 54:21.700] 100%.
[54:21.700 -> 54:24.220] So can we get up early in the morning?
[54:24.220 -> 54:28.160] So maybe instead of, you know, when the kids kids go down we start cuddling and talking when
[54:28.160 -> 54:30.960] we're both tired, we're both cranky, we both had a long day.
[54:30.960 -> 54:35.080] Well, why don't we go to bed when the kids go to bed and let's get up an hour early and
[54:35.080 -> 54:37.400] we'll spend the best hour of our day together.
[54:37.400 -> 54:40.680] We'll invest the best hour of our day in our relationship.
[54:40.680 -> 54:45.240] So I haven't changed the total amount of time, but I've changed the outcome.
[54:45.240 -> 54:46.240] There's hope for us yet.
[54:46.240 -> 54:52.520] Well, Shane, you use that phrase, I think it's Jim Collins' about like firing bullets,
[54:52.520 -> 54:58.360] not cannonballs, which seems like a nice way of describing taking smaller steps rather
[54:58.360 -> 54:59.840] than blowing your life away.
[54:59.840 -> 55:03.800] So, you can take small steps, you can cast a wide net, see what works and what doesn't
[55:03.800 -> 55:07.160] work, and then if something's working, double down on it.
[55:07.160 -> 55:08.480] And that's one way to do it.
[55:08.480 -> 55:13.760] Often what happens in practice is that people do that, they'll take all these shots, but
[55:13.760 -> 55:14.960] then they won't double down on it.
[55:14.960 -> 55:15.960] They don't want to bet on themselves.
[55:15.960 -> 55:17.120] They don't want to go all in.
[55:17.120 -> 55:18.600] Go on, explain that.
[55:18.600 -> 55:22.720] Yeah, so it's people, I think we just like searching for things too, right?
[55:22.720 -> 55:24.980] We're scared to commit to things.
[55:24.980 -> 55:25.880] We're scared to commit, we're scared to commit to things. We're scared to commit,
[55:25.880 -> 55:27.680] and we're scared to go all in on things.
[55:27.680 -> 55:29.480] And what we're really scared of is
[55:29.480 -> 55:30.960] we're equally scared of failure,
[55:30.960 -> 55:32.800] and we're equally scared of success.
[55:32.800 -> 55:34.120] And this sounds really weird.
[55:34.120 -> 55:35.640] Why would we be scared of success?
[55:35.640 -> 55:38.240] But one example I give in the book is sort of my parents
[55:38.240 -> 55:39.460] and quitting smoking.
[55:39.460 -> 55:42.160] What was really happening is that success
[55:42.160 -> 55:44.420] meant changing their friends.
[55:44.420 -> 55:49.220] Success meant getting rid of all the people in their life who smoked.
[55:49.220 -> 55:50.220] What was holding them back?
[55:50.220 -> 55:53.160] They didn't want to get rid of those people.
[55:53.160 -> 55:56.400] They didn't have the willpower to go to those situations and not smoke.
[55:56.400 -> 55:59.240] So success would mean getting rid of those people.
[55:59.240 -> 56:01.840] And ultimately, that's how they ended up quitting smoking.
[56:01.840 -> 56:04.960] So we're scared of failure, but we're also scared of success.
[56:04.960 -> 56:08.200] And when we can identify that fear, it becomes really empowering, right?
[56:08.200 -> 56:11.740] Because if I'm scared of failure, now I can think about this differently, right?
[56:11.740 -> 56:15.760] Because am I scared of failure to reach the destination?
[56:15.760 -> 56:18.600] Or am I scared of failure for the next step?
[56:18.600 -> 56:22.580] And one of the example that I use in the book of this is my son and cliff jumping.
[56:22.580 -> 56:25.040] And so we climb up, you know, he wants to go cliff jumping.
[56:25.040 -> 56:29.920] I forget how old he is, but he's younger at this time. And his first cliff is 25 feet. Like it's
[56:29.920 -> 56:33.280] a big cliff. And I'm like in the boat going, are you sure you want to do this? Like, really? That's
[56:33.280 -> 56:36.960] a pretty big cliff for your first jump. And he's like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, if you go
[56:36.960 -> 56:43.040] up, you can't come down. Like I have to throw you in or you have to jump, but you can't climb down
[56:43.040 -> 56:47.900] because it's way too dangerous. If you fall, you're going to end up dead or in the hospital.
[56:47.900 -> 56:50.440] And so I was like, you literally have to jump.
[56:50.440 -> 56:51.440] And he's like, yeah, no problem.
[56:51.440 -> 56:56.120] So he gets up and he looks down and he's like, you know, his breathing changes.
[56:56.120 -> 56:59.240] And I'm like, oh gosh, okay, so let's talk about this for a second.
[56:59.240 -> 57:03.640] Pause, like let's get control of our physiological response, which is our breath.
[57:03.640 -> 57:05.480] Now let's start doing two things, right?
[57:05.480 -> 57:08.880] Let's think about all the hard things that we've done before that we've never done for
[57:08.880 -> 57:12.040] the first time, like snowboarding is his example, right?
[57:12.040 -> 57:13.160] Or wakeboarding.
[57:13.160 -> 57:17.520] All these things that appeared really scary that he did that he enjoyed.
[57:17.520 -> 57:20.360] So it's like, okay, I've done hard things before in the past.
[57:20.360 -> 57:23.720] Now let's change where we're looking.
[57:23.720 -> 57:28.740] If you're looking down, I need the confidence to get to the bottom.
[57:28.740 -> 57:29.860] That's very different.
[57:29.860 -> 57:32.620] That's the confidence to get to the ultimate goal.
[57:32.620 -> 57:36.380] That's very different than if I look to the horizon, which is I need the confidence to
[57:36.380 -> 57:38.620] take one step.
[57:38.620 -> 57:40.500] The rest will take care of itself.
[57:40.500 -> 57:47.740] And so often what happens with this is that when we get scared, the fear is that we can't make the destination
[57:47.740 -> 57:48.880] that we wanna make.
[57:48.880 -> 57:49.920] So what do we do?
[57:49.920 -> 57:50.860] We don't do anything.
[57:50.860 -> 57:52.280] We do analysis paralysis.
[57:52.280 -> 57:55.080] We keep looking, we keep searching, we keep struggling.
[57:55.080 -> 57:55.920] We don't move.
[57:55.920 -> 57:57.920] We keep talking about doing things without doing it,
[57:57.920 -> 57:59.720] but talking about something is not doing it.
[57:59.720 -> 58:00.940] It's not the same thing,
[58:00.940 -> 58:02.480] but we're getting rewarded for,
[58:02.480 -> 58:03.640] it's almost as if we're doing it,
[58:03.640 -> 58:06.000] but we're not actually doing anything.
[58:06.000 -> 58:09.200] And so I call it first step confidence.
[58:09.200 -> 58:13.360] You need the confidence or next step confidence to take the next step.
[58:13.360 -> 58:16.880] And so if you want to leave your job, I don't need the confidence to be able to leave my
[58:16.880 -> 58:17.880] job.
[58:17.880 -> 58:21.760] I need the confidence to acquire the next skill I need to put myself in a better position
[58:21.760 -> 58:22.760] for success.
[58:22.760 -> 58:29.240] I need the confidence to just take one step forward. and maybe that's volunteering for a new role at work. Maybe it's getting myself
[58:29.240 -> 58:33.040] involved in a different way. I need to shake things up and I need the confidence to do
[58:33.040 -> 58:36.360] that. That doesn't mean I'm going to get a new job out of it. It doesn't mean all of
[58:36.360 -> 58:40.500] these things. Stop. Forget about that. Just focus on like what's right in front of you.
[58:40.500 -> 58:42.000] Focus on your next step.
[58:42.000 -> 58:45.680] The other thing I'd just like to mention before we wrap up with our quick fires is memento
[58:45.680 -> 58:47.160] mori.
[58:47.160 -> 58:48.840] The opportunity to change is right now.
[58:48.840 -> 58:51.040] I think it's a really good way to wrap up.
[58:51.040 -> 58:52.880] Why does it resonate with you?
[58:52.880 -> 58:55.480] Well it resonates with me because we only get one shot at life.
[58:55.480 -> 58:57.440] We never know when we're going to die.
[58:57.440 -> 58:59.880] I thought I was going to die two years ago.
[58:59.880 -> 59:01.120] I had Lyme disease.
[59:01.120 -> 59:03.460] I had facial paralysis.
[59:03.460 -> 59:05.640] So I had Bell's palsy on one side of my face.
[59:05.640 -> 59:08.960] I couldn't stand, I couldn't open my mouth.
[59:08.960 -> 59:11.320] You know, I was sleeping like 18 hours a day.
[59:11.320 -> 59:14.120] I honestly just thought that was the end.
[59:14.120 -> 59:15.760] And nobody knew what was wrong with me.
[59:15.760 -> 59:18.160] And all my symptoms kept getting worse.
[59:18.160 -> 59:21.380] I mean, when I standed, it was so incredibly painful.
[59:21.380 -> 59:23.640] It was like, if I walked, I was fine.
[59:23.640 -> 59:25.240] But if I stood still for 10 seconds, it was like, if I walked, I was fine, but if I stood still for 10 seconds,
[59:25.240 -> 59:27.140] it was like somebody took a knife,
[59:27.140 -> 59:28.860] stabbed the back of my knees
[59:28.860 -> 59:31.620] and like started scraping the knife down.
[59:31.620 -> 59:34.180] I was in so much pain, I would be crying on the floor.
[59:34.180 -> 59:36.540] And I have a fairly high pain tolerance.
[59:36.540 -> 59:39.320] Like it was the craziest thing ever.
[59:39.320 -> 59:42.140] And so you never know when life is gonna be taken from you.
[59:42.140 -> 59:43.820] And we only get one shot at it.
[59:43.820 -> 59:47.880] And that doesn't mean go all in on today because you have to, you know, imagine you're going
[59:47.880 -> 59:52.500] to live to 120 but it means you're doing the things that you care about.
[59:52.500 -> 59:56.680] And we don't need a near-death experience to remind us of what matters as we've talked
[59:56.680 -> 59:57.860] about today.
[59:57.860 -> 01:00:00.720] You can start allocating your time more.
[01:00:00.720 -> 01:00:04.440] Doesn't mean you're going to go perfect on it but you can do more about what matters
[01:00:04.440 -> 01:00:06.040] and less about what doesn't mean you're going to go perfect on it, but you can do more about what matters and less about what doesn't.
[01:00:06.040 -> 01:00:07.040] Lovely.
[01:00:07.040 -> 01:00:12.120] So our quickfire questions begin with the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and
[01:00:12.120 -> 01:00:14.280] the people around you should buy into.
[01:00:14.280 -> 01:00:18.240] Oh, that's a good question.
[01:00:18.240 -> 01:00:19.240] Non-negotiable behaviors.
[01:00:19.240 -> 01:00:24.560] Do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to do it.
[01:00:24.560 -> 01:00:26.680] Don't talk for other people.
[01:00:27.600 -> 01:00:30.160] So don't offer your thoughts on somebody else.
[01:00:30.160 -> 01:00:34.560] Don't gossip, don't do any of those things.
[01:00:34.560 -> 01:00:39.560] The third one I would say is show up and go all in.
[01:00:40.280 -> 01:00:43.000] So you don't just show up and go through the motions.
[01:00:43.000 -> 01:00:44.440] If you're going to do it,
[01:00:44.440 -> 01:00:46.600] dedicate yourself to doing it well.
[01:00:46.600 -> 01:00:50.680] What's the best piece of advice you've ever received and why?
[01:00:50.680 -> 01:00:56.920] When I was 13, I used this story in the book, my father saw me teasing somebody else at
[01:00:56.920 -> 01:00:58.120] school with a group of people.
[01:00:58.120 -> 01:01:01.520] I wasn't really teasing the person, but I was with the group.
[01:01:01.520 -> 01:01:09.480] And he told me that I didn't have to do things that other people were doing
[01:01:09.480 -> 01:01:14.340] just because other people were doing them. And no matter what happened, I was responsible
[01:01:14.340 -> 01:01:21.240] for my behavior. And that piece of advice sticks with me all the time. Whether it's,
[01:01:21.240 -> 01:01:25.000] you know, you're in control and it's not about not being there.
[01:01:25.160 -> 01:01:28.480] It's also about not stopping it, right?
[01:01:28.480 -> 01:01:30.400] So I'm in control of my behavior.
[01:01:30.400 -> 01:01:32.360] I'm in control of my response.
[01:01:32.360 -> 01:01:34.760] And that really solidified that for me.
[01:01:34.760 -> 01:01:36.400] What's your biggest strength?
[01:01:36.400 -> 01:01:38.160] What's your greatest weakness?
[01:01:38.160 -> 01:01:42.680] My biggest strength is I go all in.
[01:01:42.680 -> 01:01:44.100] It's also my biggest weakness.
[01:01:44.100 -> 01:01:46.080] I mean, it's conversely, it can be both, right?
[01:01:46.080 -> 01:01:47.640] It can be the both of those things.
[01:01:47.640 -> 01:01:51.720] And I think by going all in, I'm relentless.
[01:01:51.720 -> 01:01:53.520] So like during COVID, you know,
[01:01:53.520 -> 01:01:57.200] that's another period of my life where I was exhausted.
[01:01:57.200 -> 01:01:59.440] I was falling asleep in like milliseconds.
[01:01:59.440 -> 01:02:01.480] As soon as my head hit the pillow, I was out.
[01:02:01.480 -> 01:02:03.640] Every day felt like a grind
[01:02:03.640 -> 01:02:05.360] and I could live the rest of my life that way.
[01:02:05.360 -> 01:02:06.920] I wouldn't be happy, but I could.
[01:02:06.920 -> 01:02:08.880] And I know I could do that
[01:02:08.880 -> 01:02:12.000] because mentally I can just keep going.
[01:02:12.000 -> 01:02:14.960] So it becomes that, but am I living in a way
[01:02:14.960 -> 01:02:18.960] that is true to what I want, true to who I am?
[01:02:18.960 -> 01:02:21.040] If you could go back to one moment of your life,
[01:02:21.040 -> 01:02:22.440] what would it be and why?
[01:02:23.340 -> 01:02:25.240] I think I would, if I had to go back,
[01:02:25.240 -> 01:02:26.880] I'd go back like a minute from now
[01:02:26.880 -> 01:02:29.000] because I really just want to go forward.
[01:02:29.000 -> 01:02:32.120] I mean, everything that's happened to me in my life,
[01:02:32.120 -> 01:02:36.160] good, bad, and there's definitely been a ton of struggle.
[01:02:36.160 -> 01:02:38.440] And when I think about being a straight D student,
[01:02:38.440 -> 01:02:41.560] or I think about almost getting kicked out of school,
[01:02:41.560 -> 01:02:43.940] or I think about skipping school for seven weeks
[01:02:43.940 -> 01:02:45.080] in grade seven, when I think about skipping school for seven weeks in grade seven.
[01:02:45.080 -> 01:02:46.440] When I think about all this stuff
[01:02:46.440 -> 01:02:48.000] that happened to me as a child,
[01:02:48.000 -> 01:02:50.240] it's like, oh, if I could eliminate that maybe,
[01:02:50.240 -> 01:02:52.040] but no, if I could eliminate that,
[01:02:52.040 -> 01:02:54.160] I wouldn't be here today.
[01:02:54.160 -> 01:02:55.920] That would have totally changed my path.
[01:02:55.920 -> 01:02:58.620] So all of those are learning experiences for me.
[01:02:58.620 -> 01:03:01.080] They're not all positive and that's okay,
[01:03:01.080 -> 01:03:02.720] but can I take something away from them
[01:03:02.720 -> 01:03:04.560] that I can use with my kids?
[01:03:04.560 -> 01:03:06.880] Can I take something away from them that powers can use with my kids? Can I take something away from them that powers me?
[01:03:06.880 -> 01:03:09.600] Can I go forward with those experiences?
[01:03:09.600 -> 01:03:11.800] So I wouldn't wanna change anything from the past.
[01:03:11.800 -> 01:03:14.840] I think the one time that I would wanna go back to
[01:03:14.840 -> 01:03:17.920] is last October when my grandmother was dying
[01:03:17.920 -> 01:03:20.240] and I was in the hospital with her
[01:03:20.240 -> 01:03:22.640] and I was holding her hand.
[01:03:22.640 -> 01:03:26.720] And I just would love like one more moment with her.
[01:03:29.200 -> 01:03:34.000] And the final question, your one golden rule for living a high performance life?
[01:03:35.840 -> 01:03:36.480] Be yourself.
[01:03:37.760 -> 01:03:38.800] Thank you so much.
[01:03:38.800 -> 01:03:39.760] Thanks guys.
[01:03:39.760 -> 01:03:40.800] Really enjoyed that Shane.
[01:03:42.400 -> 01:03:45.200] I really enjoyed that Shane.
[01:03:46.000 -> 01:03:47.000] Damien. Jake.
[01:03:47.000 -> 01:03:53.200] It's rude to be scribbling and noting things down and stuff while you're talking to someone,
[01:03:53.200 -> 01:03:55.400] but I wish I had.
[01:03:55.400 -> 01:03:57.480] It was a real eye-opener for me.
[01:03:57.480 -> 01:04:02.720] The things that you think you're doing right so often, you don't even see that maybe they're
[01:04:02.720 -> 01:04:09.440] either wrong or they're actually causing you sort of additional stress and you're like... and so I'm now thinking imagine if
[01:04:09.440 -> 01:04:14.280] I was able to actually position myself in the way that Shane describes, imagine
[01:04:14.280 -> 01:04:19.760] what's available. Well that analogy Shane uses of hard mode and easy mode is just
[01:04:19.760 -> 01:04:23.160] such a brilliant question at any one time, which mode are you playing the game in? I
[01:04:23.160 -> 01:04:30.800] think the big thing that I've taken away from that conversation is that sometimes our decision making is biological
[01:04:30.800 -> 01:04:36.880] rather than conscious you know like when Shane was talking about sometimes our ego gets in
[01:04:36.880 -> 01:04:41.560] the way sometimes the people pleasing which I can recognize in myself that the social
[01:04:41.560 -> 01:04:49.680] pressure that you tend to conform to rather than just say no I don't want to do it and I think when you recognize that the steps of being
[01:04:49.680 -> 01:04:54.560] self-aware making sure that you're giving yourself time and space the rule
[01:04:54.560 -> 01:04:58.800] setting there's just so many small steps we can take that we can take away
[01:04:58.800 -> 01:05:03.520] and implement in our life so it's not about anyone listening to this thinking
[01:05:03.520 -> 01:05:08.440] I've got to blow my life up I've got to do anything radically So it's not about anyone listening to this thinking I've got to blow my life up, I've got to do anything radically different, it's just small incremental
[01:05:08.440 -> 01:05:12.160] steps you can take. I love the fact that what Shane is saying is you know just
[01:05:12.160 -> 01:05:15.720] the positioning, the small things where you don't even realize you know you're
[01:05:15.720 -> 01:05:19.560] having to make, you know we always think that decisions are big moments but I
[01:05:19.560 -> 01:05:22.040] love the fact that he's saying the little moments in life are what really
[01:05:22.040 -> 01:05:28.040] matters. What are the things from that? Because I'm always really interested in this. What would you change
[01:05:28.040 -> 01:05:30.280] having listened to that conversation?
[01:05:30.280 -> 01:05:34.160] Shane uses an analogy in the book that I think we didn't touch on in the conversation was
[01:05:34.160 -> 01:05:39.480] about a lesson from Charles Dickens and Ebenezer Scrooge where he talks about the ghost of
[01:05:39.480 -> 01:05:45.840] Christmas future turning up and frightening Scrooge into changing the ghost of
[01:05:45.840 -> 01:05:52.440] Christmas today and I think when I think in terms of relationships whether it's
[01:05:52.440 -> 01:05:56.520] with my children whether it's with my wife whether it's with my immediate
[01:05:56.520 -> 01:06:00.820] family I don't feel I'm investing as much time in them and I think I can
[01:06:00.820 -> 01:06:04.000] bargain with myself and go you know what it's because I'm busy I'm doing my best
[01:06:04.000 -> 01:06:08.720] for them I want to give them opportunities but actually the real value
[01:06:08.720 -> 01:06:14.340] is spending the time with them just listening to them being around for them so I think it's
[01:06:14.340 -> 01:06:20.480] about learning to say no to opportunities that come in to be able to prioritize the
[01:06:20.480 -> 01:06:24.720] things that really count. What about you?
[01:06:24.720 -> 01:06:27.800] Certainly when he mentioned what not just giving time to the people that really count. What about you? Certainly when he mentioned what, not just giving time to the people that
[01:06:27.800 -> 01:06:32.200] matter, what is the time like, what's the quality of that time like? You know my
[01:06:32.200 -> 01:06:35.920] time with my family is at the end of a long day and I say to myself well I've
[01:06:35.920 -> 01:06:39.520] seen them for two hours but what what's that two hours been? Checking my emails
[01:06:39.520 -> 01:06:41.880] from work.
[01:06:43.920 -> 01:06:46.560] It might be time but is it quality time?
[01:06:46.560 -> 01:06:49.440] I think the other thing is this idea of positioning.
[01:06:49.440 -> 01:06:54.080] You know, I feel like so often, and I'm sure a lot of people listening will relate to this,
[01:06:54.080 -> 01:06:59.920] I feel like I'm running through treacle because I never get the headspace to go, right, what
[01:06:59.920 -> 01:07:01.400] does the next three or four days look like?
[01:07:01.400 -> 01:07:07.120] And what can I do now to plan what I'm going to wear, how I'm going to travel, what goes
[01:07:07.120 -> 01:07:10.680] in my bag on the start of the week to sort of look after me for the whole week.
[01:07:10.680 -> 01:07:17.040] This idea of positioning is so hugely, like life-changingly powerful.
[01:07:17.040 -> 01:07:18.280] That is the big takeaway for me.
[01:07:18.280 -> 01:07:22.520] I'm like, am I stumbling through every single week?
[01:07:22.520 -> 01:07:23.520] Yes.
[01:07:23.520 -> 01:07:25.280] And am I making excuses that I'm stumbling
[01:07:25.280 -> 01:07:32.800] because I'm so busy yes am I therefore making hard decisions yes so I need to
[01:07:32.800 -> 01:07:37.640] change that and I resolve to do that. So Shane spoke about he he doesn't take any
[01:07:37.640 -> 01:07:43.520] meetings until 12 o'clock what what one small step are you gonna take? Well that
[01:07:43.520 -> 01:07:46.440] sort of scares me like I'm still so far away from being able to do it,
[01:07:46.440 -> 01:07:47.440] I think, oh I couldn't do that,
[01:07:47.440 -> 01:07:51.440] because I know that I would just start doing things.
[01:07:51.440 -> 01:07:55.240] Um, I think what I'm gonna do is,
[01:07:55.240 -> 01:07:56.840] is just sit down with Harriet,
[01:07:56.840 -> 01:07:58.040] and look at each week and go,
[01:07:58.040 -> 01:08:01.640] right, where do we find really great quality time?
[01:08:01.640 -> 01:08:02.640] You know, when he said about,
[01:08:02.640 -> 01:08:07.760] what are people gonna say about you on your deathbed? I know for a fact Harriet and the kids will say he
[01:08:07.760 -> 01:08:12.160] loved us but my god he worked hard. Yeah. And I don't want them to say the second
[01:08:12.160 -> 01:08:18.200] part. So. Love that. Well. Thank you mate. No thank you I've loved that one. I was
[01:08:18.200 -> 01:08:23.400] really looking forward to Shane as I said at the start. I enjoy his podcast.
[01:08:23.400 -> 01:08:25.400] I've done a couple of his courses and I love
[01:08:25.400 -> 01:08:31.640] his book, so it was a real treat, so thank you.
[01:08:31.640 -> 01:08:35.040] So look, if you enjoyed that conversation on high performance, please just do us one
[01:08:35.040 -> 01:08:38.080] favor and spread the messages.
[01:08:38.080 -> 01:08:41.560] You can either hit subscribe, which is great for us, or you can pop it on a WhatsApp group,
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[01:08:46.800 -> 01:08:50.840] stuff right now, and you can be the catalyst for that. Don't forget, you can also watch
[01:08:50.840 -> 01:08:54.880] these conversations on YouTube, as well as listen to them wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:08:54.880 -> 01:08:58.920] And we have a high performance book club as well. You can find all the details for that
[01:08:58.920 -> 01:09:03.080] across our social platforms. But thank you so much for listening. Please continue to
[01:09:03.080 -> 01:09:10.320] spread the learnings you're taking from these conversations. Remain humble, curious, and empathetic, and keep finding
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