Lessons from the Month with Will Still, Steve Hansen David Smith MBE and legends of the Ryder Cup

In September Jake and Damian chatted to a number of sports guests, but the conversations were far from sport centred. Each guest offered great learnings from their lives, including creating culture, what makes a great leader and how to be more present everyday.

They reflect on the conversation they had with Ryder Cup legends Luke Donald, Sam Torrance and Paul McGinley about their leadership styles and why Paul and Sam didn’t pick Luke to be in their team in 2014. Jake and Damian discuss Will Still’s open and authentic leadership style.

Jake and Damian had an honest and emotional conversation with Steve Hansen, the previous All Blacks' coach, on the hidden cost of high performance. Another vulnerable discussion was had with Paralympian David Smith MBE, who is currently dealing with the effects of a rare and invasive tumour. With David they consider the true importance of life.

The conversations that took place this month were reminders to take a pause and try to stay present.

Listen to the episodes mentioned:

Will Still: https://pod.fo/e/1ea4ea

Steve Hansen: https://pod.fo/e/1ecdda

David Smith MBE: https://pod.fo/e/1ef288

Ryder Cup Roundtable: https://pod.fo/e/1f190f

Download The High Performance App by clicking the link below and using the code: HPAPP

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

### Summary of the Podcast Episode: High Performance Podcast ###

**Key Themes:**

* Conversations with sports guests focused on life lessons beyond sports.
* The importance of creating a culture where people can thrive.
* Authenticity and vulnerability as powerful leadership qualities.
* The hidden cost of high performance and the need for balance.
* Savoring the moment and living in the present.

**Guests and Topics:**

* **Ryder Cup Roundtable:** Luke Donald, Sam Torrance, Paul McGinley on leadership styles and team dynamics.
* **Will Still:** Authentic and open leadership style, embracing individuality within the team.
* **Steve Hansen:** The hidden cost of high performance and the emotional toll on coaches and athletes.
* **David Smith:** Dealing with recurring cancer, finding happiness through challenges, and the importance of living in the present.

**Key Insights and Quotes:**

* "Authenticity is a powerful virtue that Will demonstrated." - Jake Humphrey
* "I'm just doing my best and I'll get things wrong...it's nice that we spoke to Will at this point in his career because I tell you I've interviewed many many many Premier League top flight football managers and they've gone beyond that moment where they're brave enough to say I'll get things wrong..." - Damien Hughes
* "I think that we have footballers playing rigidly and fearfully because they know the scrutiny that comes with the game..." - Jake Humphrey
* "At some point the team needs you to allow them to try something different. Yeah. And you just know it's time. So pull the trigger and get out." - Steve Hansen
* "I don't want to die. And it's scary and to deal with it and know that it's going to happen again there has to be a level of acceptance of mortality within it all and just to make peace with that." - David Smith

**Overall Message:**

The podcast emphasizes the value of authenticity, vulnerability, and finding balance in pursuit of high performance. It reminds listeners to appreciate the present moment and connect with others meaningfully.

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[02:12.760 -> 02:14.960] Hi there, welcome along to one of the episodes
[02:14.960 -> 02:16.240] of the High Performance Podcast
[02:16.240 -> 02:18.400] that myself and Professor Damien Hughes
[02:18.400 -> 02:20.080] love recording the most, actually.
[02:20.080 -> 02:22.120] We're about to look back on what's been
[02:22.120 -> 02:23.480] another interesting month, Damien,
[02:23.480 -> 02:26.460] on the High Performance Podcast podcast Definitely Jake I think
[02:26.460 -> 02:34.180] Practicing the pause sometimes just stopping what you're doing and pausing taking a breath and reflecting is invaluable in pretty much every aspect
[02:34.180 -> 02:39.520] Of life and I think these lessons from the month are often a really good reminder of what we've done
[02:39.520 -> 02:44.500] But what we've learned and what we'd like to direct our listeners towards. It's been a sport heavy month
[02:43.200 -> 02:47.540] what we've learned and what we'd like to direct our listeners towards. Look, it's been a sport heavy month. We've had a Ryder Cup special, we've spoken to football
[02:47.540 -> 02:53.680] manager Will Still, former rugby manager Steve Hansen and also David Smith who won gold in
[02:53.680 -> 02:58.520] London 2012 but has had recurring cancer diagnoses which has made his life a real challenge and
[02:58.520 -> 03:02.520] he's managed to find happiness through the challenges. And I think that sometimes when
[03:02.520 -> 03:07.040] we speak to, you know, four sports people in a month there's this idea that oh maybe high
[03:07.040 -> 03:10.480] performance is a sports podcast it's it really isn't because we're talking to
[03:10.480 -> 03:13.320] the person we're not talking to the athlete or we're not talking to the
[03:13.320 -> 03:17.880] coach are we? 100% we've not spoken to golfers we've spoken to some people that
[03:17.880 -> 03:21.440] just happen to play golf we've not spoken to a football manager we've
[03:21.440 -> 03:27.620] spoken to a young man that just happens to work in that the life lessons that we're taking out from them are nothing to do with the
[03:27.620 -> 03:32.120] sport. I don't think we spoke to Will Steele or Steve Hansen about tactics or
[03:32.120 -> 03:35.500] how they set up a team. We spoke about how they create cultures and
[03:35.500 -> 03:40.860] environments where the people in their team can thrive and hopefully people can
[03:40.860 -> 03:44.720] listen to them and take something away from their into their own lives and
[03:44.720 -> 03:45.460] their own world.
[03:45.940 -> 03:49.580] Absolutely. Well, let's um, let's start then. Let's reflect on our conversation
[03:49.940 -> 03:53.940] with the current Ryder Cup captain Luke Donald and two former captains
[03:54.180 -> 03:57.700] Sam Torrance and Paul McGinley who's been a previous guest on High Performance.
[03:57.700 -> 03:58.900] I mean this was cool because
[03:58.900 -> 04:04.780] we went to a hotel where the Ryder Cup team was staying and like you'd walk in Rory McIlroy was like sitting in a cafe
[04:04.780 -> 04:06.320] having a coffee while we walked in.
[04:06.320 -> 04:10.560] There was the great and the good of the golfing world walking around and there was a bit of
[04:10.560 -> 04:11.560] a cracker in the air.
[04:11.560 -> 04:15.480] It was kind of, I think there was this sense when we sat down to talk to them that they
[04:15.480 -> 04:21.080] know they're on the edge of a big moment and you know Sam Torrance was nervously excited
[04:21.080 -> 04:31.660] about it, Paul McGinley was analytical and thoughtful about it. And I think actually, you know, Luke Donald was aware of the scrutiny that he
[04:31.660 -> 04:37.020] was about to face. Yeah, I mean, I loved it. I loved, like, Sam Torrance when he came
[04:37.020 -> 04:40.700] in the room really impressed me the way that he went round and introduced
[04:40.700 -> 04:43.780] himself to everybody. And then what really stood out for me was when he left
[04:43.780 -> 04:46.160] the room, he went around and repeated everybody's name
[04:46.160 -> 04:47.320] and got it absolutely right.
[04:47.320 -> 04:48.360] That's all there.
[04:48.360 -> 04:49.640] What sort of a man he was
[04:49.640 -> 04:51.440] and therefore what type of a captain he was,
[04:51.440 -> 04:54.080] that kind of warm, inclusive sense.
[04:54.080 -> 04:55.640] Paul McGinley came in
[04:55.640 -> 04:58.240] and he had that sort of keen analytical eye
[04:58.240 -> 05:00.600] of where do I need to sit?
[05:00.600 -> 05:02.640] How do I need to make people feel comfortable?
[05:02.640 -> 05:05.120] Which tells you something about him as a leader.
[05:05.120 -> 05:11.000] And then Luke came in and he was almost very quiet and contemplative and very reflective
[05:11.000 -> 05:16.800] and willing to listen to other people's views. And I think that gives you a really fascinating,
[05:16.800 -> 05:20.120] intriguing look into what kind of captain he's going to be.
[05:20.120 -> 05:24.440] And we love doing these roundtables because it's so much less of an interview and so much
[05:24.440 -> 05:28.640] more a conversation between a current Ryder Cup captain and the previous generation of
[05:28.640 -> 05:29.640] captains.
[05:29.640 -> 05:32.920] Here's a clip.
[05:32.920 -> 05:37.960] Talking of picking players, obviously you didn't pick him in 2014, did you?
[05:37.960 -> 05:38.960] You're going to bring that up?
[05:38.960 -> 05:39.960] Yeah, I think we should.
[05:39.960 -> 05:40.960] Let's get to the bottom of this.
[05:40.960 -> 05:41.960] I think we should.
[05:41.960 -> 05:43.080] This should be the...
[05:43.080 -> 05:45.080] I'm blaming Sam, he was my vice captain.
[05:45.080 -> 05:50.880] So we've got the captain and the vice captain not picking the current captain in 2014.
[05:50.880 -> 05:51.880] I think we should finally get to the bottom of this.
[05:51.880 -> 05:52.880] Excuse me, who won in 2014?
[05:52.880 -> 05:55.880] Do we have any boxing gloves under the table?
[05:55.880 -> 05:58.160] I think he did the right job, eh?
[05:58.160 -> 06:00.760] I think he did, but I think it's just very interesting.
[06:00.760 -> 06:04.400] No, you're stirring it up, you're not getting there, Jake, okay?
[06:04.400 -> 06:07.000] You should be having the two glasses of wine and not us.
[06:07.000 -> 06:09.000] Great, yes, we should all be on the wine.
[06:09.000 -> 06:11.000] No, but I think it's very interesting how you make these decisions,
[06:11.000 -> 06:15.000] how you deliver the news, but also how the players take that news.
[06:15.000 -> 06:17.000] I mean, I don't know, does it still sting now?
[06:17.000 -> 06:19.000] The hardest call to make, isn't it?
[06:19.000 -> 06:21.000] It is the hardest call, I had to make a very…
[06:21.000 -> 06:23.000] It's the happiest call, for several of them.
[06:23.000 -> 06:26.000] A few tough calls, especially one.
[06:26.000 -> 06:30.000] But I mean, yeah, I was, you know,
[06:30.000 -> 06:32.000] when you get that call and you're not,
[06:32.000 -> 06:34.000] when you're left out, you feel a little bit, you know,
[06:34.000 -> 06:35.000] lost, you're like, wow.
[06:35.000 -> 06:37.000] It's so disappointing, you know,
[06:37.000 -> 06:40.000] two years before I was playing number one in the singles
[06:40.000 -> 06:42.000] in Medina and then suddenly, you know,
[06:42.000 -> 06:43.000] my form did drop.
[06:43.000 -> 06:44.000] I mean, I understand that.
[06:44.000 -> 06:49.280] And I think as a player, you realize that you have the ability to get into the automatic
[06:49.280 -> 06:54.900] spots and if you don't, it's out of your hands and that's a little bit on you as a player.
[06:54.900 -> 07:00.240] You should always, you always have the ability to control your fate. If you play well enough,
[07:00.240 -> 07:02.560] you're going to be there.
[07:02.560 -> 07:08.160] There is something in those conversations about you and I just shutting the hell up and allowing them to converse and I
[07:08.160 -> 07:10.480] actually quite like it when you see there's a moment where they actually
[07:10.480 -> 07:13.800] forget that we're there and they're they're talking as three current or
[07:13.800 -> 07:20.120] former golfers. It's a privilege I mean when Luke was talking about one of the
[07:20.120 -> 07:24.080] aspects of his captaincy and then Sam just said to him listen it's that first
[07:24.080 -> 07:29.400] moment when you go out and the crowd are clapping and the adrenaline and then
[07:29.400 -> 07:33.280] Paul McGinley chipped in with the idea of you know you always want to be the
[07:33.280 -> 07:37.440] hunter not the hunted and how you can channel that energy you can either ride
[07:37.440 -> 07:41.760] the wave or you can let the wave consume you. It was fascinating to hear them
[07:41.760 -> 07:45.000] guiding and and telling Luke how it should be.
[07:45.000 -> 07:52.000] And what was really intriguing was Luke making notes and really absorbing the lessons of those that have been there before him.
[07:52.000 -> 07:58.000] Are you saying if Europe wins the Ryder Cup it was this conversation where Luke learned the skills that's going to deliver it?
[07:58.000 -> 08:01.000] Well, natural humility means I don't think we can claim that.
[08:01.000 -> 08:07.680] But I think for us, well yeah it is us, but I think for
[08:07.680 -> 08:12.000] anyone listening to that, it's like being invited into that inner sanctum, that's a
[08:12.000 -> 08:16.640] real privilege to go into the dressing room and to get an insight of what you're going
[08:16.640 -> 08:21.280] to see is the external view of how they're going to perform but we've got to see the
[08:21.280 -> 08:25.160] internal mechanisms of it and that was an incredible privilege.
[08:25.160 -> 08:27.360] Absolutely, right, on to the next guest.
[08:27.360 -> 08:29.360] Will Still.
[08:29.360 -> 08:32.880] What a brilliant guy, what a fascinating guy.
[08:32.880 -> 08:36.360] You know when you meet someone and you just think, I hope life's kind to you,
[08:36.360 -> 08:40.360] I hope things fall your way, I hope things happen that you want to happen,
[08:40.360 -> 08:44.200] I hope you get the rewards for the skill and the talent that you've got,
[08:44.200 -> 08:46.000] but most of all I just hope that you live a happy life
[08:46.000 -> 08:48.800] because you're the kind of person that just deserves to be happy.
[08:48.800 -> 08:50.000] Yeah, I loved it.
[08:50.000 -> 08:55.400] I absolutely loved somebody that's gone into the bare pit of an industry like football
[08:55.400 -> 08:59.900] and almost just decided to back themselves and not to try and put on a mask,
[08:59.900 -> 09:02.000] not to pretend to be somebody they're not,
[09:02.000 -> 09:05.980] just to take the person they are and just be pure
[09:05.980 -> 09:08.880] unvarnished version of themselves.
[09:08.880 -> 09:13.860] And the fact that people buy into his authenticity, they want to play for him, they want to respond
[09:13.860 -> 09:17.160] to his messages and his lessons.
[09:17.160 -> 09:21.540] I think again we were really lucky here on the podcast that we got a sense of the kind
[09:21.540 -> 09:23.620] of leader that he is.
[09:23.620 -> 09:27.240] And I think authenticity is a really
[09:27.240 -> 09:29.960] powerful virtue that Will demonstrated.
[09:29.960 -> 09:34.440] So Will Steele is the current manager of Stade Rhin, who are a team in the top flight of
[09:34.440 -> 09:35.800] French football.
[09:35.800 -> 09:42.280] He was given his first management job at 24, he's now only 30 years old and in 10 years
[09:42.280 -> 09:46.000] he went from managing the Preston under-14 side to
[09:46.000 -> 09:50.000] managing a team against Lionel Messi. I mean that is the career path of this guy
[09:50.000 -> 09:54.900] it's a it's a unique story no one else has done it like him and for him to come
[09:54.900 -> 09:59.860] on here and share his story his passion and his thoughts was special. What did
[09:59.860 -> 10:03.600] you take from it? What was the biggest lesson that you took from Will? I loved
[10:03.600 -> 10:07.080] the bit about like I'm just doing my best and I'll get things wrong and actually I
[10:07.080 -> 10:09.600] think it was nice that we spoke to Will at this point in his career because I
[10:09.600 -> 10:13.760] tell you I've interviewed many many many Premier League top flight football
[10:13.760 -> 10:17.440] managers and they've gone beyond that moment where they're brave enough to say
[10:17.440 -> 10:20.680] I'll get things wrong they don't dare get things wrong so then they become
[10:20.680 -> 10:24.520] rigid then they become fearful then they do get things wrong then they do lose
[10:24.520 -> 10:26.000] games of football then they do get s wrong, then they do lose games of football, then they do get sacked.
[10:26.000 -> 10:30.760] And it's almost like Will is still at that point in his career where he has the freedom,
[10:30.760 -> 10:33.460] the freedom to come on a podcast and talk in the way he did.
[10:33.460 -> 10:37.920] And then you see the value in that, you know, that will be listened to by football players,
[10:37.920 -> 10:41.200] by football club owners, by other football managers.
[10:41.200 -> 10:44.000] And it can do him nothing but value.
[10:44.000 -> 10:45.460] And that's why I want more football
[10:45.460 -> 10:49.640] managers on this podcast. Well that's it, I mean I'm interested then of what is it
[10:49.640 -> 10:57.520] that you think stops managers being like that? I think it's fear, I think it's fear
[10:57.520 -> 11:08.400] of the media, fear of social media but also I've never known a more toxic, black and white, vitriolic,
[11:08.400 -> 11:09.960] aggressive football world.
[11:09.960 -> 11:14.040] I mean, one of the things I'm most excited about, no longer being a football presenter,
[11:14.040 -> 11:18.280] is not having to be in that world where it's heaven or hell, it's black or white, it's
[11:18.280 -> 11:23.080] good or bad, where there's no nuance, where there's no attempt to understand people.
[11:23.080 -> 11:27.800] You know, Ange Postacoglou, the the Spurs manager spoke in a press conference a few weeks ago about
[11:27.800 -> 11:31.360] understand that these are young men understand that these are these guys
[11:31.360 -> 11:34.200] aren't robots and they'll be struggling in their private lives and their
[11:34.200 -> 11:37.920] personal lives and I see everyone applauding it I see people sharing it I
[11:37.920 -> 11:41.960] see the media talking about it putting Ange on a pedestal saying how great it is
[11:41.960 -> 11:48.400] the very next day I see them passing judgment on the footballers ability or performance or approach or
[11:48.400 -> 11:51.840] decision-making with no understanding of what's going on in that players personal
[11:51.840 -> 11:56.480] life yeah I think that we have footballers playing rigidly and
[11:56.480 -> 12:01.320] fearfully because they know the scrutiny that comes with the game and I have
[12:01.320 -> 12:06.240] spent the last 10 years working with former England players who said they never enjoyed playing for England
[12:06.240 -> 12:08.960] because while they were on the pitch playing for England
[12:08.960 -> 12:12.000] and they misplaced a pass, they're thinking about what's going to be
[12:12.000 -> 12:14.240] written about them in the papers the next day.
[12:14.240 -> 12:16.480] So I don't see who it's serving.
[12:16.480 -> 12:20.720] That's really telling, like saying that's why I think we've been really lucky to
[12:20.720 -> 12:23.760] get access to Will at this stage of his career then and
[12:23.760 -> 12:28.360] hopefully it can inspire other people within the game that recognize how
[12:28.360 -> 12:32.440] powerful authenticity can be and come on and share their story.
[12:32.440 -> 12:35.440] Well let's hear a clip then from Will Still, here he is.
[12:37.440 -> 12:43.760] You know when I took over it's like right I'm big I'm ginger I talk half
[12:43.760 -> 12:47.400] decent English half decent French I'm from Belgium working in France and I'm big, I'm ginger, I talk half decent English, half decent French, I'm from Belgium, working
[12:47.400 -> 12:51.960] in France and I'm gonna get things wrong. Deal with it.
[12:51.960 -> 12:57.000] Junya Ito, he's Japanese, he pretends he can't speak English but he can. He pretends he doesn't
[12:57.000 -> 13:04.440] understand French but he does. Eats rice every lunchtime for a meal. Isn't gonna eat whatever
[13:04.440 -> 13:06.400] we eat. Isn't going to talk,
[13:06.400 -> 13:13.040] whatever you're talking about, deal with it. Marshall Munetzi from Zimbabwe talks about
[13:13.040 -> 13:19.920] cricket, runs a lot, smiles a lot, eats weird things too, makes a lot of noise, but he's not
[13:19.920 -> 13:27.680] the most comfortable in that situation, deal with it. Okay and I just went through every player and said right we all have our own specifics, we all have
[13:27.680 -> 13:32.240] our own weird traits of character, we all have almost that thing that makes us
[13:32.240 -> 13:37.600] special, don't hide it, you know, don't try and put it away, don't try and be
[13:37.600 -> 13:41.440] someone that I don't want you to be, just be whoever you want to be, just make sure
[13:41.440 -> 13:45.620] you're there to win games. Well the next guest that we
[13:45.620 -> 13:51.280] did then was the uber brilliant Steve Hanson. Now this is one of your not just
[13:51.280 -> 13:55.000] favorite ever records I think this is one of your favorite ever days. Oh I loved it. I've never
[13:55.000 -> 13:59.860] seen a guy on a one-man mission to get a bunch of Kiwis as drunk as possible as
[13:59.860 -> 14:04.040] quickly as possible. You were buying the pints for Steve's family like every time
[14:04.040 -> 14:07.680] I turn around there's another pint lined up. Well the story you're getting Steve
[14:07.680 -> 14:14.180] is a bit of an odyssey so I I've wanted to have him on for ages because I've
[14:14.180 -> 14:18.640] heard so many incredible stories about the man he is not the coach just the man
[14:18.640 -> 14:23.440] he is and the culture that he created so I've got to give credit here to a friend
[14:23.440 -> 14:29.280] of mine in New Zealand Ricky Tahere who works at Canterbury. I'd been in touch with Ricky and I said, is there any
[14:29.280 -> 14:34.360] way you can get me Steve's details? And he managed to get me the details for Whitney,
[14:34.360 -> 14:39.560] Steve's daughter, who's also a successful coach herself. We got hold of Whitney, who
[14:39.560 -> 14:45.720] then passed on her dad's number and eventually Steve agreed to come on when he was at Twickenham.
[14:45.720 -> 14:50.760] So we invited him and we were privileged as well that he had his six kids that came along
[14:50.760 -> 14:51.760] with him.
[14:51.760 -> 14:58.600] So I think that actually was a really powerful addition to the podcast because if you remember
[14:58.600 -> 15:03.800] his kids were in the room listening to their dad talk and I think that led to one of the
[15:03.800 -> 15:08.160] most moving moments on the podcast when you asked him the question what's the hidden cost
[15:08.160 -> 15:12.280] of a life of high performance and he's worth listening to the answer that he
[15:12.280 -> 15:29.000] gave us here. 20 years is you don't get 20 years for murder do you? So it's a long time Mae'n amat tawai. Mae'n tawai tawai tanana tine.
[15:30.000 -> 15:31.000] Gohaia.
[15:32.000 -> 15:36.000] Dau'n apologeze.
[15:38.000 -> 15:40.000] Mae'n tawai tina tanana tine. Tine i mewna.
[15:41.000 -> 15:42.000] Tine i mewna tine.
[15:42.000 -> 15:43.000] Tine i mewna tine.
[15:43.000 -> 15:44.000] Tine i mewna tine.
[15:44.000 -> 15:47.000] Tine i mewna tine. Tine i mewna tine. Tine i mewna tine. Tine i mewna tine. Tine i mewna tine. At some point the team needs you to allow them to try something different.
[15:47.000 -> 15:48.000] Yeah.
[15:48.000 -> 15:53.000] And you just know it's time. So pull the trigger and get out.
[15:54.000 -> 15:58.000] And it sounds a bit like a pause in some ways when you hear it.
[15:58.000 -> 16:02.000] When you see it, when you watch it on YouTube or on the high performance app,
[16:02.000 -> 16:07.340] you really see that he is a man who wears his
[16:07.340 -> 16:11.160] emotions very close to the surface or he's learned to do that.
[16:11.160 -> 16:17.080] Yeah definitely and what I find really interesting on this Jake is that I've spoken to quite
[16:17.080 -> 16:23.580] a number of people within the rugby world since that episode came out and all of them
[16:23.580 -> 16:25.160] have responded to that moment where they've spoken about the honesty, the cost that Steve since that episode came out and all of
[16:23.040 -> 16:27.880] them have responded to that moment where
[16:25.160 -> 16:31.240] they've spoken about the honesty, the
[16:27.880 -> 16:33.600] cost that Steve tells us that he bore, but
[16:31.240 -> 16:35.400] also the reflections that it's forced
[16:33.600 -> 16:39.120] them to do to think about are they
[16:35.400 -> 16:41.120] trading happiness or every decision we
[16:39.120 -> 16:42.880] make comes with a consequence and are
[16:41.120 -> 16:44.800] they happy to keep paying the price? Now
[16:42.880 -> 16:47.040] there's no definitive answer to that
[16:44.800 -> 16:49.320] but that's one of the big factors that we want our listeners to take away from
[16:49.320 -> 16:53.480] this podcast is we're not telling you what to do but we do want to make you think and
[16:53.480 -> 16:58.640] maybe reflect on what you are doing and is it leading to high performance in your definition
[16:58.640 -> 17:05.400] of it and I think Steve's honesty there certainly forces us all to reflect on our own decisions and our
[17:05.400 -> 17:06.400] own actions.
[17:06.400 -> 17:11.000] And I think it's only right if we're on a podcast called High Performance that we, you
[17:11.000 -> 17:15.000] know, make it clear that everything has a cost.
[17:15.000 -> 17:18.440] And so many guests that have come on this podcast have spoken about the cost of high
[17:18.440 -> 17:22.320] performance and I think that's when we maybe get things wrong, when we believe that high
[17:22.320 -> 17:24.000] performance is the achieving of things.
[17:24.000 -> 17:29.400] You know, high performance really should just be finding the best we can be at a certain
[17:29.400 -> 17:33.040] thing, but even that costs, because to be the best rugby coach you can be, you need
[17:33.040 -> 17:36.320] to spend time with your players, you need to be away from home, you need to travel the
[17:36.320 -> 17:40.960] world, you need to isolate yourself at times, you know, you need to deal with complex emotions
[17:40.960 -> 17:46.720] that in truth, even your partner and your children and your best friends can't relate to because they're not in your world.
[17:46.720 -> 17:51.520] And that is the way it is and I think it's only after you've had that career that you
[17:51.520 -> 17:56.040] can do the work to come to terms with what you had to sacrifice.
[17:56.040 -> 17:59.120] And I think that's maybe why he's emotional is because he has thought about it, he has
[17:59.120 -> 18:03.320] done the work and he has realized he gained so much but also lost so much.
[18:03.320 -> 18:05.240] Yeah, and to me one of the
[18:05.240 -> 18:08.880] biggest compliments we've had was I got a message off Dan Carter who I'm sure
[18:08.880 -> 18:13.640] won't mind me sharing that he'd listened to the Steve interview and his message
[18:13.640 -> 18:19.160] was that he thought that was a truest representation of Steve Hansen that
[18:19.160 -> 18:23.600] anybody outside of his world has ever heard and that to me was a huge
[18:23.600 -> 18:27.840] compliment that that both Steve was willing to share that with us,
[18:27.840 -> 18:30.840] but also it felt like a huge privilege
[18:30.840 -> 18:33.640] that he trusted us to come and open himself up
[18:33.640 -> 18:35.280] and make himself vulnerable.
[18:35.280 -> 18:37.880] Right, final conversation, talking of privilege,
[18:37.880 -> 18:40.360] the privilege to go to the Happy Place Festival,
[18:40.360 -> 18:43.360] see the thousands of people that are turning up
[18:43.360 -> 18:49.960] to see the amazing work and the brilliant community really that Fern Cotton has created with Happy Place and
[18:49.960 -> 18:53.600] we were really privileged to play our own small part by interviewing David
[18:53.600 -> 18:59.320] Smith, a former athlete who sadly has throughout his career been regularly
[18:59.320 -> 19:03.800] diagnosed with recurring cancers, cancers that have required him to have surgeries
[19:03.800 -> 19:09.900] that have left him paralyzed yet still he continued to be an athlete, he found a way back. The stories
[19:09.900 -> 19:11.600] he told were quite remarkable.
[19:11.600 -> 19:21.200] I don't want to die. And it's scary and to deal with it and know that it's going to happen
[19:21.200 -> 19:25.020] again there has to be a level of acceptance of mortality
[19:25.020 -> 19:30.760] within it all and just to make peace with that. I'm the only Scotsman that doesn't drink
[19:30.760 -> 19:36.900] alcohol but I have a beautiful 18 year old bottle of Glenfiddich in my house in Scotland
[19:36.900 -> 19:43.240] and I'm actually en route to get that bottle of whisky now to go and sit with my friends
[19:43.240 -> 19:45.720] because I realise that in many ways it's a gift
[19:45.720 -> 19:49.520] because sometimes we don't really get to sit and be with our friends and maybe
[19:49.520 -> 19:53.800] say goodbyes and stuff. And for this I'm gonna go and knock on some doors and sit
[19:53.800 -> 19:58.440] and open this bottle of whiskey and sit and just share some stories because I
[19:58.440 -> 20:01.320] realize at the end all we have is memories and memories are made from
[20:01.320 -> 20:04.680] experiences and we don't really have experiences if we don't learn to savor
[20:04.680 -> 20:07.740] the moment. And savouring the moment for me
[20:07.740 -> 20:11.700] is about being where your feet are and being in the present moment and I think
[20:11.700 -> 20:14.660] that's how I'm dealing with the current situation.
[20:14.660 -> 20:19.040] So how long did the doctor say that your life expects?
[20:19.040 -> 20:23.180] They won't give me a number on that. I did ask that question, I thought it was an
[20:23.180 -> 20:25.360] appropriate question to ask.
[20:29.440 -> 20:34.880] What can they do? They can do surgery again. So that would be surgery number seven. They said radiotherapy would maybe buy me six months, but I went away and I think now that
[20:34.880 -> 20:39.280] I don't have my mom's medical book to look for, I do have Google. I typed it straight in Google and
[20:39.280 -> 20:44.080] the answers came up right away. There's a new, things move in the medical world so fast. There's
[20:44.080 -> 20:47.980] a new treatment in Germany called carbon ion therapy. So I'm going to head to
[20:47.980 -> 20:51.460] Germany very soon to have discussions with doctors there to be like, you know,
[20:51.460 -> 20:56.980] is this something that they think would work? And you know, we have 18,600
[20:56.980 -> 21:01.620] seconds in a day if that's right, if my math is right. I just want to live all of
[21:01.620 -> 21:05.320] those seconds and I'm very clear in my values and my philosophy
[21:05.320 -> 21:09.320] for life and if I can just get the most out of them.
[21:09.320 -> 21:12.840] And I've wrestled with the question right now, would I rather live 50 years but live
[21:12.840 -> 21:17.440] every day or live to a hundred and have not lived any days?
[21:17.440 -> 21:19.640] And I don't know if I'm scared of death.
[21:19.640 -> 21:22.780] I am scared of death but I'm also scared of not living.
[21:22.780 -> 21:27.840] So for me at the moment it's just like, how do I get the most out of life? Who do I spend time with? How can I
[21:27.840 -> 21:32.640] influence people's life to go out, smash it, enjoy every one of those seconds,
[21:32.640 -> 21:37.520] every one of those breaths and just you know, can I say balls? Grab life by
[21:37.520 -> 21:42.440] the balls. It's the most moving conversation to have with someone when
[21:42.440 -> 21:50.500] they've had the news only a few weeks before that you know their their cancer is advancing at an alarming stage and when I think
[21:50.500 -> 21:54.320] back to that conversation I actually don't think about what we spoke about I
[21:54.320 -> 21:59.440] think of his face when he got the standing ovation in that tent and you
[21:59.440 -> 22:03.940] saw him welling up he just looked out at the crowd he sort of patted his chest
[22:03.940 -> 22:09.720] where his heart was and I don't know, we don't know what the future is for David, right? But what I
[22:09.720 -> 22:13.480] do know is that I am so proud that he was able to be given that moment in front of those
[22:13.480 -> 22:17.120] people and that in itself is special.
[22:17.120 -> 22:23.160] Yeah, so first of all, I'd echo your point around the Happy Place Festival was one of
[22:23.160 -> 22:28.100] those places where people have found their own own tribe where they can just come and there was a
[22:28.100 -> 22:33.460] moment seeing hundreds of people doing yoga in a field together and knowing
[22:33.460 -> 22:37.900] that they felt safe to be able to do that is a is a real testimony to what
[22:37.900 -> 22:42.500] Fern and her team have created there so to be invited to be part of that as you
[22:42.500 -> 22:49.000] say was a real privilege and to be able to be part of that, as you say, was a real privilege. And to be able to go and have that conversation with David in a place where he felt safe
[22:49.000 -> 22:55.000] and brave enough to be able to share some of his lessons that he's learned was incredible.
[22:55.000 -> 22:58.500] And the thing that I took away from it was that fact that he said,
[22:58.500 -> 23:02.000] just put your phone away and connect with people, just be with people.
[23:02.000 -> 23:09.040] Because he's in that difficult place,, he's been given the diagnosis and he's now got that question of how
[23:09.040 -> 23:12.880] hard do I fight to extend my life but how do I actually make the most of the
[23:12.880 -> 23:17.440] life I've got? And I think that's a question that all of us are wrestling
[23:17.440 -> 23:22.160] with to some degree and I think his lessons of just make the most of the
[23:22.160 -> 23:25.800] time you're here is an incredible lesson not
[23:25.800 -> 23:29.200] only from the month, not only from the year, but for life.
[23:29.200 -> 23:31.320] Wonderful. Damien, thank you so much, mate.
[23:31.320 -> 23:33.720] Thanks, mate. I love these. I love these pauses for thoughts.
[23:33.720 -> 23:36.880] They're great, aren't they? A chance to reflect. Just a quick reminder, you can watch all of
[23:36.880 -> 23:42.600] these episodes on YouTube as well. I just think it just gives you a little bit more
[23:42.600 -> 23:46.680] of an insight into the emotion that people are going through when they're talking to us on these podcasts, when you can see them
[23:46.680 -> 23:47.680] as well as hear them.
[23:47.680 -> 23:51.560] And for those of you that haven't yet, don't forget that for free, you can download right
[23:51.560 -> 23:53.440] now the High Performance app.
[23:53.440 -> 23:58.480] Just go to the App Store, search for High Performance and use the code HPAPP.
[23:58.480 -> 24:03.800] That's HP app and you can get access to daily boosts, you can get extra content, you can
[24:03.800 -> 24:05.640] get early episodes before anybody else.
[24:05.640 -> 24:06.920] It's a brilliant offering,
[24:06.920 -> 24:09.040] download it right now, get involved,
[24:09.040 -> 24:10.280] and join the thousands of people
[24:10.280 -> 24:12.040] who are already enjoying high performance
[24:12.040 -> 24:13.840] on the High Performance app.
[24:13.840 -> 24:14.800] Thanks for listening,
[24:14.800 -> 24:17.320] and on behalf of myself, Damien, and the whole team,
[24:17.320 -> 24:18.520] we'll see you very soon.
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