Lessons from the month with Kevin Sinfield, Edwin van der Sar, Tom Grennan and Matt Willis

Jake and Damian take some time to reflect on the conversations they’ve had in June, delving a little deeper into some of the key lessons from each episode.

They explore the idea of finding your purpose with Kevin Sinfield, how they would have done the interview with Edwin van der Sar differently with the knowledge he left Ajax a few days later. They also examine how to challenge negative thoughts with Tom Grennan’s method of “thought flipping”, wrapping up the conversation with the importance of asking for help and the power you can find when all seems lost, with Matt Willis.

There were some incredible and insightful take-aways from each guest this month, you can listen to the full episodes here:

Kevin Sinfield - https://pod.fo/e/1819c9

Edwin Van Der Sar - https://pod.fo/e/183472

Tom Grennan - https://pod.fo/e/185044

Matt Willis - https://pod.fo/e/186e2b

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode transcript, organized into a hierarchical structure:

**I. Introduction**
- Jake and Damian reflect on conversations from June episodes.
- They discuss the importance of finding purpose and avoiding defining purpose by what you do.
- They mention a live event with Dan Carter and his perspective on retirement.

**II. Kevin Sinfield Interview**
- Kevin Sinfield talks about finding purpose in challenging situations.
- He emphasizes the importance of having a clear purpose to drive motivation.
- Sinfield shares his experience of raising funds for MND research during a 101-mile challenge.
- He encourages people to find their purpose and do what is truly meaningful to them.

**III. Edwin van der Sar Interview**
- Edwin van der Sar discusses the demanding nature of his job as CEO of Ajax.
- He reveals that he resigned from the position two days after the interview.
- Jake and Damian reflect on the missed opportunity to delve deeper into van der Sar's struggles during the interview.
- They acknowledge that they could have been more responsive to his cues and asked more probing questions.

**IV. Tom Grennan Interview**
- Tom Grennan shares his experience with therapy and the concept of "thought flipping."
- He explains how he reframes negative thoughts into positive ones to improve his mental well-being.
- Grennan also discusses an incident where he was randomly attacked, which led to a period of self-reflection and growth.
- He emphasizes the importance of emotional literacy and exploring the root causes of emotions.

**V. Matt Willis Interview**
- Matt Willis opens up about his struggles with addiction and the turning point that led him to seek help.
- He describes the moment when he realized he was at risk of becoming a terrible father and decided to take action.
- Willis highlights the significance of finding the right moment to make a change and emphasizes that nothing is lost until it's truly lost.

**VI. Conclusion**
- Jake and Damian wrap up the episode by emphasizing the importance of asking for help when needed and the power that can be found in moments of despair.
- They encourage listeners to embrace the concept of purpose and to seek fulfillment beyond their achievements.

**Overall Message:**
The podcast highlights the importance of finding purpose, reframing negative thoughts, seeking help when needed, and embracing the power of moments of despair as opportunities for growth and change. It emphasizes the need for emotional literacy and self-awareness in navigating life's challenges.

# High Performance: June Review and Reflection

Jake Humphrey and Damian Lewis take a moment to reflect on the insightful conversations they've had in June, exploring key lessons from each episode.

1. **Finding Your Purpose with Kevin Sinfield:**
- They delve into Kevin Sinfield's journey of discovering his purpose through adversity.
- Sinfield emphasizes the importance of embracing challenges and setbacks as opportunities for growth.

2. **Interviewing Edwin van der Sar:**
- They reflect on how they would have approached the interview with Edwin van der Sar differently, given his subsequent departure from Ajax.
- They discuss the significance of asking probing questions and staying informed about the latest developments.

3. **Challenging Negative Thoughts with Tom Grennan:**
- They examine Tom Grennan's method of "thought flipping" as a strategy for overcoming negative self-talk.
- They highlight the power of positive affirmations and reframing negative thoughts into empowering ones.

4. **Asking for Help with Matt Willis:**
- They discuss the importance of seeking help when facing personal struggles, as exemplified by Matt Willis's journey.
- They emphasize the strength and courage required to reach out for support during difficult times.

The podcast offers valuable insights and takeaways from each guest, encouraging listeners to explore the full episodes for deeper understanding.

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[02:08.600 -> 02:16.520] Hey everyone, welcome along to an episode of High Performance. It's fast becoming actually
[02:16.520 -> 02:20.800] one of the most popular episodes we release in any month, which is a chance for myself
[02:20.800 -> 02:22.120] and Damien. Hi Damien.
[02:22.120 -> 02:23.120] Hi Jake.
[02:23.120 -> 02:28.400] To sit and reflect on the brilliant conversations that we've had over the past four weeks you're about to hear a
[02:28.400 -> 02:32.840] clip from our chat with Kevin Sinfield, the former Manchester United goalkeeper
[02:32.840 -> 02:37.720] and CEO of Ajax, Edwin van der Sar, the singer Tom Grennan and the musician Matt
[02:37.720 -> 02:41.520] Willis. We're just going to pick out a moment or two from those conversations
[02:41.520 -> 02:44.020] and just delve a bit deeper into them and we're going to start with Kevin
[02:44.020 -> 02:47.360] Sinfield. We'll talk about it in a second, but first here is Kevin
[02:47.360 -> 02:50.440] talking to us about the power of purpose.
[02:51.880 -> 02:56.880] I realized pretty early on that you probably got the best
[02:57.200 -> 02:58.720] out of me when I backed into a corner.
[02:58.720 -> 03:03.320] I hate the fact that it's like that, but it's probably true.
[03:03.320 -> 03:07.000] When you really stick me somewhere I don't want to be,
[03:07.000 -> 03:08.320] then I'll fight and I'll come out
[03:08.320 -> 03:10.560] and you'll get the best of me.
[03:10.560 -> 03:13.320] So for people out there who are going through some things
[03:13.320 -> 03:16.200] that they don't want to face,
[03:16.200 -> 03:18.600] who are finding it particularly difficult,
[03:18.600 -> 03:22.780] like life's tough, and nobody has it plain sailing,
[03:23.880 -> 03:25.120] I would say this as well,
[03:25.120 -> 03:27.780] because I remind myself of it all the time.
[03:27.780 -> 03:29.300] There's always someone worse off than you,
[03:29.300 -> 03:30.560] no matter how bad it gets,
[03:30.560 -> 03:32.060] there's someone worse than you.
[03:32.060 -> 03:35.540] So Rob helps with that, with the perspective.
[03:37.860 -> 03:41.540] I've actually, I actually enjoy being in those tough,
[03:41.540 -> 03:43.780] difficult, dark moments.
[03:43.780 -> 03:46.560] You don't have to be in there long.
[03:46.560 -> 03:49.440] But as I was showing in the 101 mile,
[03:49.440 -> 03:51.440] I was in there for seven hours.
[03:51.440 -> 03:55.600] And it was, it's a long time to be in there.
[03:55.600 -> 03:58.120] But again, there's people doing a lot worse than I am.
[03:58.120 -> 04:02.680] And my job is to try and get from A to B in one piece,
[04:02.680 -> 04:04.000] to try and raise a load of money
[04:04.000 -> 04:06.600] so that the specialists and surgeons
[04:06.600 -> 04:09.320] and the best MND people across the UK
[04:09.320 -> 04:11.800] can get their heads together and try and find a cure.
[04:11.800 -> 04:13.360] And I think when you've got something like that,
[04:13.360 -> 04:14.800] that is really powerful then.
[04:16.280 -> 04:18.000] It's really easy to do it,
[04:18.000 -> 04:20.400] but I'd say to people out there,
[04:20.400 -> 04:21.680] find out why you're doing it.
[04:21.680 -> 04:22.520] What is it?
[04:22.520 -> 04:25.000] What is the one thing that'll prevent you
[04:25.000 -> 04:26.640] stopping or turning around?
[04:26.640 -> 04:29.020] And when you find that, you can go.
[04:31.920 -> 04:33.880] Now, this is a good time to have a conversation
[04:33.880 -> 04:35.600] about purpose because we're recording this
[04:35.600 -> 04:38.560] on a Thursday afternoon and last night we were live
[04:38.560 -> 04:40.640] on stage at the Hackney Empire
[04:40.640 -> 04:43.080] with the All Blacks legend, Dan Carter.
[04:43.080 -> 04:44.920] And actually the conversation with him
[04:44.920 -> 04:48.640] was really all about purpose. And I we we need to talk about the fact that
[04:48.640 -> 04:53.680] you can have something that you do in life like host a podcast or play rugby
[04:53.680 -> 04:58.280] or be a parent or I don't know make a million quid whatever is you want to do
[04:58.280 -> 05:03.400] but that's not purpose that's the thing that you want to achieve purpose is a
[05:03.400 -> 05:06.540] far greater conversation than that, isn't it?
[05:06.540 -> 05:08.020] Yeah, it's not what you do,
[05:08.020 -> 05:10.900] it's who you are when you're doing it, who you become.
[05:10.900 -> 05:13.800] And what I found really interesting in the chat with Dan
[05:13.800 -> 05:15.520] that we had last night was when we had a beer with him
[05:15.520 -> 05:17.560] afterwards in the dressing room.
[05:17.560 -> 05:19.400] And he was talking about the ridiculousness
[05:19.400 -> 05:22.080] of retiring from sport.
[05:22.080 -> 05:24.360] And even that very word retiring that he said.
[05:24.360 -> 05:27.780] So if you chose to leave a profession, Mae'r fath o'i ddod o'r sport, a'r sôn hwnnw, fel y dywedodd, os ydych chi'n ddod o'r broffesiwn,
[05:27.780 -> 05:31.280] dydych chi ddim yn dod o'r profffesiwn i wneud rhywbeth eraill.
[05:31.280 -> 05:33.280] Mae gennych chi ddod o'r sport i newid carrerau.
[05:33.280 -> 05:36.280] Ond gyda'r athleisiau fel Dan, ac fel Kevin,
[05:36.280 -> 05:38.280] rydyn ni'n meddwl, beth ydych chi'n mynd i'w wneud
[05:38.280 -> 05:40.280] pan ydych chi'n ddod o'r sport?
[05:40.280 -> 05:42.280] Wel, mae gennym ni newid carrerau.
[05:42.280 -> 05:45.600] Yn y cas o Kevin, mae wedi mynd i fod yn coach gyda Steve Barthwick yng Nghymru. Yn y cas o Kevin, mae'n mynd i fod yn ymgyrch gyda Steve Borthwick yng Nghymru.
[05:45.600 -> 05:53.200] Yn y cas o Dan, mae'n mynd i fod yn adroddiwr, ymgyrch i'r busnesau, ac yn y ffordd mwyaf, mae'n ffilanthropist.
[05:53.200 -> 05:56.080] Rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n unig iawn, Jake.
[05:56.080 -> 06:00.960] Yn ein hyn y mae ein cyfansoddau yn ei ddifrifio, nid yn yr hyn rydyn ni'n ei wneud.
[06:00.960 -> 06:06.440] Ac mae'n ddim yn dda i ddweud, pan fyddwch chi'n gwneud rhywbeth yn eithaf anhygoel fel yr hyn yr oedd Kevin, a oedd yn un o'r gweithwyr rhino'r mwyaf o gyd-dod o'r unigol, what we do. And it's fair to say that when you do something as incredible as
[06:04.440 -> 06:08.040] what Kevin did, which was be one of the
[06:06.440 -> 06:09.720] greatest ever Leeds Rhino players the
[06:08.040 -> 06:10.960] world's seen, or when you're one of the
[06:09.720 -> 06:13.080] greatest All Blacks the world's ever
[06:10.960 -> 06:14.480] seen, it's very easy to allow that to
[06:13.080 -> 06:16.560] become your purpose. And there will be
[06:14.480 -> 06:19.000] people listening to this who do
[06:16.560 -> 06:20.960] incredible jobs, who have incredible
[06:19.000 -> 06:23.080] things in their lives, and I suppose our
[06:20.960 -> 06:25.680] message to them is don't allow that
[06:23.080 -> 06:26.220] thing that you do to inadvertently become your purpose
[06:26.220 -> 06:31.540] Because there's one sure thing guaranteed in life and it's that great thing you do at one point. You won't be doing it and
[06:33.100 -> 06:35.680] Therefore your purpose has to be so much bigger than that
[06:35.680 -> 06:37.600] So that when you pivot when you change
[06:37.600 -> 06:43.600] When something falls away when you actually do retire when you leave a job when you leave a role when you no longer have the responsibility
[06:43.820 -> 06:46.000] You have today You're not less of a person for not having that in your life retire, when you leave a job, when you leave a role, when you no longer have the
[06:43.480 -> 06:48.160] responsibility you have today, you're not
[06:46.000 -> 06:50.640] less of a person for not having that in
[06:48.160 -> 06:53.440] your life. Definitely, I remember talking to
[06:50.640 -> 06:55.440] a leader of one business that I worked
[06:53.440 -> 06:58.800] with who had his sense of purpose was
[06:55.440 -> 07:00.720] to enrich lives, which I thought was really
[06:58.800 -> 07:03.200] interesting and in the business that he
[07:00.720 -> 07:05.480] ran, the product that he sold was about
[07:03.200 -> 07:09.520] enriching people's lives but I remember him saying to me, if this business fails I'll go and run old
[07:09.520 -> 07:13.400] people's homes or go and build wells in Africa, I will still enrich people's
[07:13.400 -> 07:19.840] lives through the actions that I do. So it was almost not defined by the nature
[07:19.840 -> 07:24.840] of the work, it was what he became and the difference it made on the back of it
[07:24.840 -> 07:27.440] and I think that leads into the conversation
[07:27.440 -> 07:28.480] we had with Kevin.
[07:28.480 -> 07:30.040] And if you remember, we were at Twickenham
[07:30.040 -> 07:33.120] on the day of the Gallagher Rugby Premiership Final,
[07:33.120 -> 07:34.680] where Kevin was there with Steve Borthwick
[07:34.680 -> 07:35.640] and the England staff,
[07:35.640 -> 07:38.440] and he was signing copies of his new book.
[07:38.440 -> 07:40.920] And then he came in and spoke to us at the end of the day,
[07:40.920 -> 07:49.640] and his day sounded like it was pretty frenetic and full on. and yet when he came to us he still had that energy, that exuberance, that passion
[07:49.640 -> 07:53.280] for the conversation and I think that's a great example of somebody living a
[07:53.280 -> 07:58.800] life on purpose. Everything he was doing was about enriching lives, making lives
[07:58.800 -> 08:03.520] better, raising awareness, inspiring people and making a difference. So his
[08:03.520 -> 08:05.160] energy levels were so much higher
[08:05.160 -> 08:06.440] than somebody just doing a job
[08:06.440 -> 08:08.320] because I felt I have to do it.
[08:08.320 -> 08:09.760] I love that conversation with Kevin.
[08:09.760 -> 08:11.120] And actually it was a busy couple of days
[08:11.120 -> 08:12.960] because 24 hours before that,
[08:12.960 -> 08:15.360] we all landed in Amsterdam, by the way,
[08:15.360 -> 08:16.720] how good were those pancakes,
[08:16.720 -> 08:18.320] those Dutch pancakes we had for lunch, guys?
[08:18.320 -> 08:20.560] Oh, fantastic, weren't they?
[08:20.560 -> 08:21.480] Food of the gods.
[08:21.480 -> 08:23.120] Yeah, we all put on about six stone
[08:23.120 -> 08:27.640] after 12 hours in Amsterdam. But we were there to speak to Edwin van der Sar and
[08:28.560 -> 08:34.880] He is the former CEO of IACs because only two days later was it announced that he'd quit his job
[08:34.880 -> 08:39.160] He'd resigned as the CEO. We spoke to him about that job. We spoke to him about his life in football
[08:39.160 -> 08:41.400] He was an incredible goalkeeper for Manchester United
[08:41.400 -> 08:50.280] But it was mainly around the struggles of the job that he does today that the conversation focused. Before we talk about it, here's a clip.
[08:50.280 -> 08:57.800] Give us an insight into the hours you work. You never say it's too much.
[08:57.800 -> 09:05.520] You don't want to. It's continuously, it's hard. It's whatever, you have your phone, you have your laptop, you have the
[09:05.520 -> 09:11.520] calls, you have your dinners, you have your work, you have your time to go to games, you
[09:11.520 -> 09:18.040] want to go to commercial partners, it's events, it's shit, things are happening, you need
[09:18.040 -> 09:23.600] to fire someone, things are not going well, there's a crisis, there's something happening
[09:23.600 -> 09:26.180] on European level, it's something with a
[09:26.180 -> 09:28.240] new media deal.
[09:28.240 -> 09:29.240] It's constant.
[09:29.240 -> 09:36.160] So it's, at a certain point, it's not a drag, it's fucking hard.
[09:36.160 -> 09:40.320] And that's something that's where friends of yourself say, Jeez, Edwin, why do you need
[09:40.320 -> 09:41.320] it?
[09:41.320 -> 09:44.080] You have your money, you can have an easier life.
[09:44.080 -> 09:45.760] And of course something goes through your mind, but then one way you have your money, you can have an easier life. And of course, something
[09:45.760 -> 09:54.520] goes through your mind. But in one way, you want to be successful, sometimes also addictive.
[09:54.520 -> 09:59.360] You want to achieve things and that's something that you carry with you all your life. And
[09:59.360 -> 10:04.080] if you play different sports or with your friends, you always want to win.
[10:04.080 -> 10:07.080] So I was really frustrated, annoyed, angry,
[10:07.080 -> 10:09.200] and let down with myself.
[10:09.200 -> 10:11.240] When I saw that two days later, he'd left his job
[10:11.240 -> 10:13.040] because just to set the scene,
[10:13.040 -> 10:17.440] we were in a hotel room overlooking the Johan Cruyff Arena.
[10:17.440 -> 10:19.260] And do you remember when he walked in the room,
[10:19.260 -> 10:21.300] we were waiting for him as you normally do with these guests.
[10:21.300 -> 10:23.560] We were set to go, cameras were running, mics were rolling.
[10:23.560 -> 10:27.760] And I just said, hey, Edwinwin how are you he went shit yeah and
[10:27.760 -> 10:35.840] then sat down how at that point did we as interviewers not realize just how
[10:35.840 -> 10:39.800] much he was struggling or like and he kept throwing in little comments about
[10:39.800 -> 10:45.220] how hard it was and I think that maybe let's just be totally open here I feel maybe
[10:45.220 -> 10:47.720] we missed a bit of a trick in that interview that we still went down the
[10:47.720 -> 10:51.400] road of the things that we decided we were gonna do 24 or 12 hours before and
[10:51.400 -> 10:56.120] we allowed that to blind us from basically what he was saying which was I
[10:56.120 -> 11:00.800] can't handle this job anymore it's crazy yeah I think you're right I think our
[11:00.800 -> 11:10.000] careers as investigative journalists like Bernstein a Woodward, nid oedd o'n gynllunio'r rhan o'r dechrau, ond rwy'n credu ar y pwynt gweithredol, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn,
[11:10.000 -> 11:26.080] rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn, rwy sain a'r dans sy'n dweud y llyfr y byd,
[11:26.080 -> 11:27.960] nid dim ond y sain.
[11:27.960 -> 11:29.440] Ac rwy'n credu bod Edwin,
[11:29.440 -> 11:30.480] ei llyfr gynllun,
[11:30.480 -> 11:31.640] efallai ei fod wedi gweld ei hyder,
[11:31.640 -> 11:33.440] efallai ei fod wedi gweld ei hyder yn anodd.
[11:33.440 -> 11:35.960] Roedd e'n ddiddorol a'n ddiddorol enough
[11:35.960 -> 11:39.000] i wneud y cyfroes gyda ni.
[11:39.000 -> 11:42.080] Ond rydych chi'n ddweud, rwy'n credu ein bod ni wedi rannu'r tric.
[11:42.080 -> 11:43.880] Ac rwy'n credu,
[11:43.880 -> 11:45.300] rwy'n ymdrech arno hefyd. Rwy'n credu, weithiau, roedd y ffaith ein bod ni'n gwybod ei fod wedi'i gael ymdrech ar gyfer amser. I think we did miss a trick. And I don't know, I think I've reflected on it as well.
[11:45.300 -> 11:47.400] I think sometimes it was the fact that
[11:47.400 -> 11:49.840] we knew he was pressured for time.
[11:49.840 -> 11:51.640] We knew that we were coming in on the weekend
[11:51.640 -> 11:53.120] before the last game of the season
[11:53.120 -> 11:55.880] that was gonna be seminal of where Ajax finished
[11:55.880 -> 11:58.360] in the final place into the season.
[11:58.360 -> 12:02.040] So I think the context of that meant that
[12:02.040 -> 12:03.400] I almost didn't want to piss him off.
[12:03.400 -> 12:07.280] We were sort of treading carefully on what we thought he would want.
[12:07.280 -> 12:10.080] And maybe that wasn't what he wanted.
[12:10.080 -> 12:12.560] He would have given us more than we got.
[12:12.560 -> 12:16.080] Yeah. I still think there's a value to the conversation we had.
[12:16.080 -> 12:20.080] But I just think talking to him about what was Cristiano Ronaldo like,
[12:21.200 -> 12:24.160] you can have that conversation at any point in his life.
[12:24.160 -> 12:27.440] If we had just said, Edwin, thank you so much for finding
[12:27.440 -> 12:29.560] the time, but I'm going to be totally honest.
[12:29.560 -> 12:31.720] You look exhausted, you look tired, you look drained,
[12:31.720 -> 12:33.240] and the season isn't even over.
[12:33.240 -> 12:35.680] Please tell us, how are you feeling?
[12:35.680 -> 12:37.840] Because we have many people that listen to this podcast
[12:37.840 -> 12:38.760] who will feel the same.
[12:38.760 -> 12:41.160] They will be really stressed out by work and life
[12:41.160 -> 12:42.180] and family and everything else.
[12:42.180 -> 12:43.960] And they are hanging on by a thread.
[12:43.960 -> 12:50.240] And that could have been really valuable for those people and we miss that and I think that you know what do we say
[12:50.240 -> 12:53.680] high performance is doing the best you can where you are with what you've got I still believe we
[12:53.680 -> 12:58.240] did the best we could where we were with what we had but I now think we have more and I think that
[12:58.240 -> 13:02.800] it sharpens both of our brains to be like the interview that we're planning to do with this
[13:02.800 -> 13:08.760] person if we do that interview then there's a chance we've missed something those questions we've
[13:08.760 -> 13:13.940] pre-prepared our backup questions yeah they are not the central questions well
[13:13.940 -> 13:17.080] if you think about some of the interviews that we've done over the last
[13:17.080 -> 13:21.440] three and a half years Jake where that we'd still often refer back to they're
[13:21.440 -> 13:26.000] often the interviews where we went completely off our scripted questions mae'r cyfresau yma'n ymwneud â'r cwestiynau sgriptio, o unrhyw ddiddordeb,
[13:26.000 -> 13:29.000] os oedd y cyfreswr, fel Johnny Wilkinson,
[13:29.000 -> 13:30.000] yn dod yn ymlaen yn gyntaf,
[13:30.000 -> 13:32.000] a dweud na fyddwn i'n gallu gysylltu â'r cwestiynau hyn,
[13:32.000 -> 13:34.000] fe wnaethon ni feddwl ar ein gwaith,
[13:34.000 -> 13:37.000] os oedd oedd rhywun fel Dame Stephanie Shirley
[13:37.000 -> 13:39.000] sy'n dod yn ôl yn 90 oed
[13:39.000 -> 13:41.000] a chael ei gyrraedd a'i hymdrechio
[13:41.000 -> 13:45.360] yn eithaf eang yn y cyfres, a'i gyrraedd i ni ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig 90 years old and got tired and exhausted quite easily during the interview and it
[13:45.360 -> 13:50.920] forced us to slow down and sort of adapt. I think they're the ones that sometimes
[13:50.920 -> 13:54.160] it's that old saying that common sense is what you do when you don't know what
[13:54.160 -> 14:00.380] to do and I think sometimes if we'd have just decided to throw away what we'd
[14:00.380 -> 14:04.200] planned and just respond in the moment I think we could have got something
[14:04.200 -> 14:08.100] different. Yeah but it shows the value that that had for us and I
[14:08.100 -> 14:11.620] still hope that it carried a real value for the people listening. I'd love to
[14:11.620 -> 14:15.580] hear from people. Yeah I think so. I think what I would say is that I did notice
[14:15.580 -> 14:20.740] that he did visibly relaxed didn't he? So again context for listeners is that we've
[14:20.740 -> 14:25.000] been told really clearly he had just an hour of his time to give us and yet he ond roedd yn dal am ddod o'r hanner a hanner. Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n amlwg.
[14:25.000 -> 14:28.000] Rwy'n credu bod rhai o'r sgwrs rydyn ni'n ei gael o'n mynd yn ôl i'w gyrfa
[14:28.000 -> 14:32.000] a rhai o'r profiadau o'i ddod o'i chyflawni, fel y dywedodd,
[14:32.000 -> 14:37.000] yn rhoi ychydig o ymddygiad yn yr amser sy'n anodd i'w gael
[14:37.000 -> 14:39.000] pan roedd yn dweud wrthym,
[14:39.000 -> 14:40.000] rydyn ni'n gofyn iddo,
[14:40.000 -> 14:42.000] beth oedd y gwaith o'i gysylltu gyda Cristiano Ronaldo?
[14:42.000 -> 14:44.000] Ac fe dweud, beth oedd y gwaith o'i gysylltu gyda Cristiano Ronaldo?
[14:44.000 -> 14:47.200] Ac fe dweud, beth oedd y gwaith o'i gysylltu gyda Cristiano Ronaldo? Ac fe dweud, beth oedd y gwaith o'i gysylltu gyda Cristiano Ronaldo? a bit of comfort in what was a troubling time for him when he was you know telling us about you asked him what was it like sharing a dressing room
[14:47.200 -> 14:50.080] with Cristiano Ronaldo and I said what was it like for Cristiano Ronaldo sharing
[14:50.080 -> 14:53.600] a dressing room with me I thought we saw little snippets of the
[14:53.600 -> 14:58.880] bloke that he really is when he's at his best confident strident
[14:58.880 -> 15:01.840] and somebody that knows where his boundaries lie.
[15:01.840 -> 15:09.240] Yeah okay let's uh let's talk about another guest who was with us this month, the singer Tom Grennan. I really liked him, didn't you?
[15:09.240 -> 15:14.960] Yeah, he was brilliant and not just because he was a United fan, which is
[15:14.960 -> 15:20.320] shallow, but I'd like to, I thought he just came in and you know you might have
[15:20.320 -> 15:25.520] an image of what a pop star is supposed to be like and I like I did
[15:25.520 -> 15:30.240] I thought I'd be quite loud quite brash quite blingy and he wasn't he was quiet
[15:30.240 -> 15:35.880] he was humble and really engaging and I think this conversation plays exactly to
[15:35.880 -> 15:40.080] what we try to do with high performance I'm sure you will have an opinion about
[15:40.080 -> 15:43.840] Tom Grennan whether it's you like or don't like his music like or don't like
[15:43.840 -> 15:47.480] his dress sense like or don't like his social media account or the way he acts or blah blah
[15:47.480 -> 15:51.720] blah. But none of that's really important because your opinion, our opinion, becomes
[15:51.720 -> 15:55.640] valueless compared to the empathy that you develop for someone when you get to know them.
[15:55.640 -> 15:59.920] And when someone sits in front of you and talks about therapy and talks about how that's
[15:59.920 -> 16:02.880] changed their lives and talks about some of the traumas they've had and how they had to
[16:02.880 -> 16:08.720] reframe those, then you listen, then you learn, and then you grow. Here's
[16:08.720 -> 16:12.000] just a couple of clips from our conversation with Tom.
[16:12.000 -> 16:19.600] I was so annoyed at myself for listening to this little rubber voice who was saying I
[16:19.600 -> 16:25.640] wasn't good enough that I thought to myself I'm gonna be spontaneous and I'm also gonna
[16:25.640 -> 16:30.320] just throw myself in to something I never thought I'd ever do and see if I
[16:30.320 -> 16:34.760] could swim and I ended up being able to swim in it and I thought this is wicked
[16:34.760 -> 16:40.520] and I've also flipped, flipped the thought. I do a lot of therapy now still
[16:40.520 -> 16:46.160] and I have this thing of flipping a thought which really really
[16:46.160 -> 16:52.320] helps me in my day-to-day life anyway. Go on, explain what you mean by that. So if I
[16:52.320 -> 16:56.760] have something that's giving me anxiety, say if I'm like I can't do this or I feel
[16:56.760 -> 17:01.600] like I am sinking inside or something like that, I'll be like, nah I'm not, I'm actually
[17:01.600 -> 17:06.000] floating and then that makes it a positive thing straight away.
[17:06.000 -> 17:09.760] And it changes the way your thought,
[17:09.760 -> 17:13.480] and it also, it changes what that little voice
[17:13.480 -> 17:16.720] inside your head is saying.
[17:16.720 -> 17:19.960] So you're kind of like shouting at that other voice,
[17:19.960 -> 17:21.880] saying, nah, mate, that's not what I want to do,
[17:21.880 -> 17:23.120] I want to do that.
[17:23.120 -> 17:24.880] And then you're actually doing it.
[17:23.240 -> 17:26.200] and say, nah mate, that's not what I want to do, I want to do that. And then you're actually doing it.
[17:26.200 -> 17:32.360] I got jumped and that wasn't, like you say, just this little scuffle, it was something
[17:32.360 -> 17:39.560] that humbled me massively, but also affected me massively, where like I couldn't leave
[17:39.560 -> 17:40.560] my house.
[17:40.560 -> 17:47.820] Like I said, I've always been that guy who's, I've got energy, I'm always, and I think this is the first time I ever understood
[17:47.820 -> 17:50.140] what mental health was,
[17:50.140 -> 17:53.740] what like anger really, really was,
[17:53.740 -> 17:56.140] what revenge really felt like.
[17:56.140 -> 17:58.700] All these different emotions were like,
[17:58.700 -> 18:02.860] I couldn't cope with what was going on in my head.
[18:02.860 -> 18:05.380] And what precipitated the attack? It was
[18:05.380 -> 18:11.880] random. Wow. So that's what I think that's what, why has it happened to me? Why have
[18:11.880 -> 18:16.040] they done this to me? That was like I say the first time where I was like I can't, I
[18:16.040 -> 18:22.280] don't know how to be me anymore. You've just completely changed me. And not only
[18:22.280 -> 18:26.320] that, you changed my family's life too. So I think that also gave me the
[18:26.320 -> 18:35.200] fire when I could navigate my thoughts and what I wanted to do of like, I'm gonna really
[18:35.200 -> 18:46.300] become something bigger and better and being able to say like, thank you very much mate. You've just absolutely
[18:52.680 -> 18:53.140] Created something that you never thought you and you never see me because you don't know me, but you just create something
[18:55.700 -> 18:57.740] Unbelievable. So thank you. So you flipped it again. Yeah
[18:59.380 -> 19:03.180] Look I love that Thought process of flipping. Yeah flipping a negative into a positive
[19:04.180 -> 19:06.960] of flipping, flipping a negative into a positive. Well, I think it's a valuable tip for anyone listening
[19:06.960 -> 19:09.720] to this because what it describes, like the attack
[19:09.720 -> 19:13.320] when he was a young lad, when he just got randomly set upon,
[19:13.320 -> 19:16.080] it was a random attack and he describes how he tried
[19:16.080 -> 19:17.960] to make sense of it, why me, what happens.
[19:17.960 -> 19:20.600] And this is an important principle of,
[19:20.600 -> 19:22.960] it's an organizing principle of how your brain works.
[19:22.960 -> 19:25.600] It has to make sense from the chaos
[19:25.600 -> 19:28.680] that our lives often would be like
[19:28.680 -> 19:31.160] if we didn't have this overriding narrative.
[19:31.160 -> 19:33.920] But our brains are also wired to be negative.
[19:33.920 -> 19:36.360] So it goes to the worst possible solution.
[19:36.360 -> 19:37.520] Why did it happen to me?
[19:37.520 -> 19:38.600] Because you're an idiot,
[19:38.600 -> 19:41.040] is what your brain will instantly throw up.
[19:41.040 -> 19:43.940] So what he's describing there is a powerful technique
[19:43.940 -> 19:45.280] of how do you just
[19:45.280 -> 19:49.480] present your brain with an alternative perspective and the idea of just getting
[19:49.480 -> 19:53.280] into the habit of flipping it and trying to see things from a completely different
[19:53.280 -> 19:59.200] angle can often allow a chink of positivity to come into what can seem a
[19:59.200 -> 20:07.160] dark situation and I think that's what he's done for his whole career of like what like why me?
[20:07.160 -> 20:10.760] Why should I be a pop star? Well, there's millions of people competing from that
[20:10.760 -> 20:15.680] but then flipping it says but why not me? Why shouldn't it be me? Why don't I have
[20:15.680 -> 20:20.160] something that's unique and is a talent? We can all apply that to our lives
[20:20.160 -> 20:25.920] whatever the situation we're facing. And you you know, on the same theme of flipping,
[20:25.920 -> 20:28.440] I actually really liked it when he talked about envy
[20:28.440 -> 20:30.840] and he talked about the sort of inspiration
[20:30.840 -> 20:32.740] that he gets from other people doing really well.
[20:32.740 -> 20:34.480] We've heard this conversation quite a few times,
[20:34.480 -> 20:35.960] actually, from various different people.
[20:35.960 -> 20:37.760] Like, we're taught that envy's a bad thing.
[20:37.760 -> 20:38.600] Envy is not.
[20:38.600 -> 20:41.240] Envy is your focus, it's your North Star.
[20:41.240 -> 20:43.160] It's something to aim towards.
[20:43.160 -> 20:44.920] It's a direction to point yourself.
[20:44.920 -> 20:50.320] And I just think that's a really valuable thing for people to just understand that reframing isn't just reframing
[20:50.880 -> 20:52.520] how you
[20:52.520 -> 20:58.640] Live based on the things that happen to you. It's reframing how your brain naturally reacts to stuff happening around you all the time
[20:58.800 -> 21:03.840] Yeah, there's a billion sport psychologist called. Dr. Josephine Perry that talks really well on this
[21:03.840 -> 21:08.560] She talks about the power of emotional literacy. So when we say I'm envious
[21:08.560 -> 21:14.240] that's quite a lazy emotionally term to use and so you explore it and you go you
[21:14.240 -> 21:17.840] know what I feel a little bit piqued that somebody's getting an opportunity
[21:17.840 -> 21:22.080] that I'm not. So describing rather than just saying I'm envious or jealous I'm
[21:22.080 -> 21:26.160] piqued by it. It sort of just slightly offends me,
[21:26.160 -> 21:28.000] then is a more literate term.
[21:28.000 -> 21:28.960] So you can go and explore,
[21:28.960 -> 21:30.320] well, what is it that you're offended by?
[21:30.320 -> 21:32.040] And it's like, well, why haven't I got that chance?
[21:32.040 -> 21:33.960] So then you can work backwards and say,
[21:33.960 -> 21:37.040] so what do I need to do to put myself in the position
[21:37.040 -> 21:38.460] of getting that chance?
[21:38.460 -> 21:40.000] Then gives you a sense of power
[21:40.000 -> 21:44.160] rather than just feeling crippled by some of these emotions.
[21:44.160 -> 21:45.880] And what Tom described has just been
[21:45.880 -> 21:48.360] very emotionally literate in the way that
[21:48.360 -> 21:51.360] he describes his emotions and what they mean for him.
[21:51.360 -> 21:52.940] Well, I hope that from listening to that podcast,
[21:52.940 -> 21:55.920] you feel you know Tom Grennan, not better than before,
[21:55.920 -> 21:57.720] but in a totally different way
[21:57.720 -> 22:00.160] than before you heard that chat.
[22:01.440 -> 22:02.760] Talking of the hidden struggle,
[22:02.760 -> 22:04.240] the hidden fight, the hidden battle,
[22:04.240 -> 22:08.640] Matt Willis is a man who hid his battle for a long time until he could hide it no longer, wasn't he?
[22:08.640 -> 22:14.240] Yeah, he was and he came to us just days before there was quite a revealing documentary
[22:14.240 -> 22:19.920] that he starred in about his addiction that was aired on the BBC and he was a little bit nervous,
[22:19.920 -> 22:25.360] wasn't he, about how it was going to be received, because the documentary and the interview
[22:25.360 -> 22:27.520] that we did with him really sort of exposed
[22:27.520 -> 22:29.160] a lot of vulnerabilities.
[22:29.160 -> 22:30.840] This is a guy that has, you know,
[22:30.840 -> 22:33.640] he's had number one best-selling albums and records,
[22:33.640 -> 22:35.520] he's had sellout tours,
[22:35.520 -> 22:39.960] and yet battling the demons of addiction,
[22:39.960 -> 22:41.120] whether that's to drugs,
[22:41.120 -> 22:44.480] whether that's to alcohol, that he was facing,
[22:44.480 -> 22:47.400] sort of reveals something very human about him.
[22:49.000 -> 22:52.000] Well, that was the changing moment in my life, you know,
[22:52.000 -> 22:56.400] because I can't really, like I said, I never meant to be in a band,
[22:56.400 -> 22:59.600] I never meant to go to drama school and be an actor or anything,
[22:59.600 -> 23:02.200] but I kind of, I always wanted to be a dad.
[23:02.200 -> 23:08.600] You know, when I think back to everything in my life, the only thing I ever wanted to be was a father. I had the image of
[23:08.600 -> 23:12.760] them in my head. I kind of could imagine myself being a dad. I knew what I wasn't
[23:12.760 -> 23:18.040] gonna do, you know, a very strong opinion on what I wasn't gonna do and what kind
[23:18.040 -> 23:22.440] of father I was gonna be. And I had my daughter and she was about eight months
[23:22.440 -> 23:26.440] and I missed her crawling for the first time
[23:26.440 -> 23:28.640] and my wife's birthday party
[23:28.640 -> 23:30.580] because I was out getting fucked.
[23:30.580 -> 23:34.760] And the next day I kind of, I woke up and Emma came in.
[23:34.760 -> 23:36.800] She didn't shout at me, she didn't yell at me.
[23:36.800 -> 23:38.960] She just told me what I'd missed
[23:38.960 -> 23:41.320] and that she wasn't gonna stand for it.
[23:41.320 -> 23:46.400] And it hit me all of a sudden that I was gonna
[23:46.400 -> 23:52.520] be a terrible father and it was the one thing that I had always planned not to
[23:52.520 -> 23:57.800] be the only thing I'd ever planned not to be and I was gonna do that I was
[23:57.800 -> 24:01.120] gonna do that to this little little person who I loved more than I never
[24:01.120 -> 24:06.120] felt in my entire life and I was gonna repeat that cycle of shit and it
[24:06.420 -> 24:09.540] Made me drop to my knees and and ask for help. I
[24:10.860 -> 24:14.260] Think one of the things that stands out for me here
[24:14.920 -> 24:18.380] Is a reminder of the power you find when all is lost
[24:18.940 -> 24:23.760] And I think that for so long he struggled until the moment where it was so bad and it was so low and it was
[24:23.760 -> 24:25.120] So hard that he decided that now I do something about this so long he struggled until the moment where it was so bad and it was so low
[24:22.880 -> 24:26.960] and it was so hard that he
[24:25.120 -> 24:29.040] decided that now I do something about
[24:26.960 -> 24:30.200] this and I think there's a strong message
[24:29.040 -> 24:31.960] for people if they're listening to this
[24:30.200 -> 24:34.840] and they're struggling and they feel like
[24:31.960 -> 24:36.800] the struggle is futile there will be a
[24:34.840 -> 24:39.960] moment there will be a moment and if you
[24:36.800 -> 24:42.200] can grab hold of that moment then that
[24:39.960 -> 24:43.920] is the point at which you can turn your
[24:42.200 -> 24:46.880] life around and you know nothing is lost
[24:43.920 -> 24:45.440] until it's lost.
[24:45.440 -> 24:48.200] Yeah, and I know we're not addiction therapists
[24:48.200 -> 24:49.720] or specialists on this topic,
[24:49.720 -> 24:52.360] but Matt was really interesting where he said
[24:52.360 -> 24:55.880] that a lot of the genesis for addiction therapy
[24:55.880 -> 24:59.640] is that it's often said you have to hit rock bottom
[24:59.640 -> 25:00.800] before you can make your way up.
[25:00.800 -> 25:02.240] And he challenged that and said,
[25:02.240 -> 25:04.840] you don't have to get to that dark place
[25:04.840 -> 25:06.000] before you can start to turn your life around. a dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn, ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn, ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:06.000 -> 25:08.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:08.000 -> 25:10.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:10.000 -> 25:12.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:12.000 -> 25:14.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:14.000 -> 25:16.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:16.000 -> 25:18.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:18.000 -> 25:20.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:20.000 -> 25:22.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:22.000 -> 25:24.000] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn,
[25:24.000 -> 25:28.400] ond mae'n dweud, dydyn ni'n gweithio'n dda iawn, ond mae'n anodd, gan gael ein bod yn agos i'r ffaith ein bod yn anodd
[25:28.400 -> 25:31.560] a gallu mynd i siarad â rhywun i gael help,
[25:31.560 -> 25:34.000] i ddweud yna, yma, yma.
[25:34.000 -> 25:37.280] Yn ei hefyd, roedd y pwerau o'r ymddiriedaeth
[25:37.280 -> 25:39.680] a oedd gyda'i ffwrdd gyda'i ffwrdd, Emma.
[25:39.680 -> 25:41.960] Roedd y peth hwnnw sy'n dda iawn
[25:41.960 -> 25:44.480] yn fy nghyffrodd, pan dweud y diwrnod
[25:44.480 -> 25:48.360] pan roedd yn dod yn ôl gyda'i ffwrdd, a dweud beth rydym yn ei wneud heddiw, lovely bit that really resonated with me when he said that day when he was a staying over with his wife and he said what we're doing today and it was like
[25:48.360 -> 25:53.280] we're just gonna hang around and drink tea and just chat and it was also what
[25:53.280 -> 25:57.920] do I need to do who do I need to be to impress these people and it was a sense
[25:57.920 -> 26:02.240] of you don't have to be anybody other than yourself made him realize just
[26:02.240 -> 26:05.880] where he was and the dark place he was in. I think
[26:05.880 -> 26:13.760] sometimes moments like that, very human, mundane, everyday moments can actually
[26:13.760 -> 26:18.960] remind us of being human and being human sometimes involves struggle.
[26:18.960 -> 26:23.960] Very good. Thank you mate. Thanks mate. I love these, I love, you said it at the
[26:23.960 -> 26:27.600] start that I'm delighted people enjoy listening to this
[26:27.600 -> 26:29.240] because I enjoy doing it as well.
[26:29.240 -> 26:32.600] This is the pause for us in between these conversations
[26:32.600 -> 26:35.240] where we can reflect on our learnings and take them away
[26:35.240 -> 26:38.600] and hopefully people, if they want to go and explore it,
[26:38.600 -> 26:41.320] can go into these episodes from the last month
[26:41.320 -> 26:43.240] and listen to them in more detail.
[26:43.240 -> 26:46.360] And just remember, you've got the best part of 200 episodes
[26:46.360 -> 26:48.800] to go and review and to listen to again.
[26:48.800 -> 26:50.120] And I would encourage you,
[26:50.120 -> 26:52.520] if you listened to one of the early conversations
[26:52.520 -> 26:54.180] two or three years ago, go back and find it,
[26:54.180 -> 26:57.780] go back and see what those people say.
[26:57.780 -> 27:00.020] But think about how differently you react to it
[27:00.020 -> 27:01.240] based on the things you've learned
[27:01.240 -> 27:03.960] from listening to High Performance over the past few years.
[27:03.960 -> 27:05.560] Because being a lifelong learner is one of the best things you've learned from listening to High Performance over the past few years, because being a lifelong learner
[27:05.560 -> 27:07.240] is one of the best things you can be.
[27:07.240 -> 27:09.880] And we all hope that these podcasts
[27:09.880 -> 27:12.600] are helping you to be a learner on a weekly basis.
[27:12.600 -> 27:14.720] Thank you so much for the continued support.
[27:14.720 -> 27:17.160] Please do subscribe to this podcast.
[27:17.160 -> 27:18.440] Subscribing to High Performance
[27:18.440 -> 27:19.520] allows us to grow our channel.
[27:19.520 -> 27:20.440] The bigger we can grow it,
[27:20.440 -> 27:22.360] the greater the names we can attract,
[27:22.360 -> 27:24.240] and the more impact we can have for you.
[27:24.240 -> 27:28.680] You can also watch them on YouTube, as as listen to them wherever you get your podcasts.
[27:28.680 -> 27:29.980] But thanks for listening.
[27:29.980 -> 27:41.200] Keep sharing what you're hearing and we'll speak soon.
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