Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Sun, 03 Sep 2023 23:21:15 GMT
Duration:
1:18:15
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Will's story is a testament to the power of authenticity and resilience in the world of football management.
Will Still is a professional football manager and former player, currently managing Ligue 1 club Stade de Reims. Aged 30, he is the youngest manager in Europe's top five leagues, and first became a manager at age 24. Will shares with Jake and Damian how he deals with outside pressure and how his commitment to honesty, vulnerability, and staying true to himself has been his guiding force. After dropping out of university in Belgium, Will moved to the UK to pursue a Football Coaching degree. Despite the culture shock, the move cemented Will’s commitment to a career in football.
They discuss how his style as a manager has developed since he first started, with vulnerability and honesty always being at the forefront of his work. Will discusses what it was like to turn down a job offer from Vincent Kompany and how a quiet self-confidence is crucial to his work. This is a conversation about passion, commitment and authenticity.
Will's journey reminds us that the road to success becomes much easier when we begin embracing our true self.
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Will Still's journey to becoming the youngest manager in Europe's top five leagues is a testament to his resilience, authenticity, and commitment to his passion for football. After dropping out of university in Belgium, Will moved to the UK to pursue a Football Coaching degree at Myerscough College in Preston. Despite the initial culture shock, the move solidified Will's determination to build a career in football.
Will's coaching career began with knocking on doors and convincing clubs to let him work in any capacity, even if it meant doing menial tasks like setting up cones or washing socks. His persistence paid off when he secured a role as a video analyst at STVV, a Belgian second division club. Despite not receiving a contract or compensation, Will's dedication and the value he added through his video analysis impressed the coach and earned him a full-time position.
Will's experience at Myerscough College, though not directly providing a wealth of football knowledge, played a crucial role in shaping his personal growth and resilience. Being immersed in a different culture and environment forced him to adapt and learn how to navigate unfamiliar social dynamics. This experience equipped him with the adaptability and cultural awareness necessary to succeed in the diverse world of professional football.
Will's advice for adapting to a new culture is to give it time and immerse oneself in the local environment. He emphasizes the importance of embracing the differences and learning from them, rather than trying to impose one's own cultural norms. He also stresses the value of patience and persistence, as it takes time to build relationships and establish oneself in a new cultural context.
Will's story is an inspiration to anyone seeking to pursue their passion and overcome obstacles. His unwavering commitment to football, his willingness to start from the bottom, and his ability to adapt to new environments have been instrumental in his remarkable success as a football manager.
In this podcast episode, Will Still, the manager of Ligue 1 club Stade de Reims, shares his unique journey in the world of football management. At the age of 30, he is the youngest manager in Europe's top five leagues and has faced various challenges and triumphs throughout his career.
Will's story begins with his decision to leave university in Belgium and pursue a Football Coaching degree in the UK. Despite the cultural shock, this move solidified his commitment to a career in football. He emphasizes the importance of embracing different cultures and perspectives, which has helped him connect with players from diverse backgrounds in his current role.
Will discusses the evolution of his managerial style since he started, highlighting vulnerability and honesty as key aspects of his approach. He reflects on his experience of turning down a job offer from Vincent Kompany and explains how a quiet self-confidence is crucial to his work.
Will's emphasis on authenticity and resilience has led him to success, as evidenced by his impressive results with Stade de Reims. He believes that creating a positive and open environment for players is essential for team performance, and he encourages his players to be themselves and bring their unique strengths to the pitch.
The podcast delves into the importance of vulnerability for a manager, acknowledging that showing weakness can be a sign of strength. Will emphasizes the need for balance, as managers must also be able to maintain discipline and authority.
Will's experiences have taught him that failure is a natural part of the journey to success, and he encourages players to learn from their mistakes and move forward. He believes that creating a culture of learning and improvement is vital for a team's long-term growth.
The conversation also touches on the challenges Will faced early in his career, including media criticism and doubts about his abilities. He reflects on how these experiences shaped him and helped him develop a stronger sense of self-belief.
Overall, Will's story is an inspiring example of the power of authenticity and resilience in the world of football management. His commitment to honesty, vulnerability, and staying true to himself has been his guiding force, leading him to achieve remarkable success at a young age.
# Will Still: The Power of Authenticity and Resilience in Football Management
Will Still's journey as a football manager is a testament to the transformative power of authenticity and resilience. At the age of 30, he became the youngest manager in Europe's top five leagues, navigating the complexities of the industry with honesty, vulnerability, and a commitment to staying true to himself.
Still's path to success was unconventional. After dropping out of university in Belgium, he moved to the UK to pursue a Football Coaching degree. Despite the initial culture shock, this decision solidified his commitment to a career in football.
His managerial style has evolved since his early days, with vulnerability and honesty always at the forefront. Still believes that creating a high-performance environment requires fostering a culture of trust and open communication among players and staff. He emphasizes the importance of enjoying the game, demonstrating commitment, and maintaining a positive attitude, even in the face of adversity.
Still's ability to turn down a job offer from Vincent Kompany, a renowned figure in the football world, highlights his unwavering confidence in his own path. He recognized that Kompany's managerial style and environment were not aligned with his own values and goals, demonstrating a quiet self-assurance that has served him well.
Still's journey is a reminder that the road to success becomes easier when we embrace our true selves. By staying authentic, being vulnerable, and remaining committed to our values, we can overcome obstacles and achieve our aspirations.
## Key Insights from the Podcast:
- Authenticity and Resilience: Will Still's success stems from his authenticity and resilience in navigating the challenges of the football industry. He has remained true to his values, even when faced with adversity, demonstrating the importance of staying authentic to achieve success.
- Vulnerability and Honesty: Still believes that vulnerability and honesty are crucial elements of effective leadership. He fosters a culture of trust and open communication among players and staff, creating a high-performance environment where individuals feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and ideas.
- Enjoyment and Commitment: Still emphasizes the importance of enjoying the game of football and demonstrating commitment to the team. He believes that a positive attitude and unwavering dedication are essential ingredients for success, even in the face of setbacks.
- Trusting Instincts: Still often relies on his instincts when making decisions, highlighting the importance of trusting one's gut feeling. He believes that quick, intuitive decisions can sometimes be more effective than overanalyzing situations.
- Embracing Challenges: Still's willingness to embrace challenges and take risks has been instrumental in his success. He has demonstrated a remarkable ability to adapt to new environments and overcome obstacles, showcasing his resilience and adaptability.
- Continuous Learning: Still is a continuous learner, always seeking opportunities to improve his knowledge and skills. He believes that staying updated with the latest trends and developments in football is essential for staying ahead in the competitive world of management.
- Maintaining a Positive Mindset: Still emphasizes the importance of maintaining a positive mindset, even in the face of setbacks. He believes that a positive outlook and the ability to learn from mistakes are crucial for overcoming challenges and achieving success.
## Conclusion:
Will Still's journey as a football manager serves as an inspiration to aspiring leaders and individuals seeking success in their chosen fields. His emphasis on authenticity, vulnerability, and resilience provides valuable lessons for anyone looking to navigate the complexities of leadership and achieve their goals. By embracing our true selves, fostering a culture of trust and open communication, and maintaining a positive mindset, we can overcome obstacles and achieve lasting success.
# Will Still: A Journey of Authenticity, Commitment, and Honesty in Football Management
In this episode of The High Performance Podcast, Will Still, the youngest manager in Europe's top five leagues and current manager of Ligue 1 club Stade de Reims, shares his unique perspective on football management, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, commitment, and honesty.
Will's journey in football began when he dropped out of university in Belgium and moved to the UK to pursue a Football Coaching degree. Despite the initial culture shock, this move solidified his commitment to a career in football.
As a manager, Will has developed a distinct style that prioritizes vulnerability and honesty. He believes that creating an environment where players and staff feel comfortable being themselves is crucial for success. Will discusses how he turned down a job offer from Vincent Kompany, highlighting the importance of self-confidence in his work.
Throughout the conversation, Will emphasizes the significance of passion, commitment, and authenticity in football management. He believes that success becomes easier when individuals embrace their true selves.
Will's story serves as a testament to the power of authenticity and resilience in the world of football management. He encourages aspiring managers to stay true to themselves, remain committed to their goals, and prioritize honesty in their interactions with players and staff.
**Key Takeaways:**
* Authenticity, commitment, and honesty are essential qualities for effective football management.
* Creating an environment where players and staff feel comfortable being themselves fosters success.
* Embracing one's true self simplifies the path to success.
* Passion, commitment, and authenticity are crucial elements for high performance.
* Overcoming challenges and embracing vulnerability are essential for personal and professional growth.
* Maintaining a humble, curious, and empathetic mindset is vital for continuous improvement.
**Memorable Quotes:**
* "I allow your ego to be as big as it needs to be, and I'll allow your personality to be as important as it has to be." - Will Still
* "Commitment is number two, and number three, I know again very sort of fairy tale like and romantic but honesty, if you think something's shit and if you think I'm chatting shit, tell me it's crap, be straightforward." - Will Still
* "Don't believe in the people that say it's not possible. Do whatever it takes, just keep going, don't give up." - Will Still
* "Winning the title with STVV, the very first club I worked for at the end of that season where I had nothing because that was proof to myself that it was possible." - Will Still
* "Set yourself a goal and go for it and just believe that, you know, it is possible." - Will Still
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[00:46.040 -> 00:51.100] minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside
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[01:01.760 -> 01:25.160] I'm big, I'm ginger, I talk half decent English, half decent French. I'm from Belgium, working Here's what's coming up today. 15, 18 players or more and a set of cones, I'd pay to do that.
[01:25.160 -> 01:26.600] I'm pretty sure I would have asked
[01:26.600 -> 01:29.840] any one of those players to run at that brick wall
[01:29.840 -> 01:30.680] and smash their head through it,
[01:30.680 -> 01:31.880] they would have done it.
[01:31.880 -> 01:34.440] Because that's what the team needed.
[01:34.440 -> 01:37.120] Every person in the world says they hate losing games,
[01:37.120 -> 01:39.840] but I actually feel proper, proper shit
[01:39.840 -> 01:40.940] when I've lost a game.
[01:43.840 -> 01:48.840] So today we welcome to High Performance the manager of Stade d'Arrain, Will Still. Now
[01:48.840 -> 01:54.400] Stade d'Arrain play in Ligue 1 in France, one of Europe's top five leagues. Will is
[01:54.400 -> 02:00.040] the youngest manager in any big league in European football. He's 30 years old. Not
[02:00.040 -> 02:05.920] only that, he started in management at 24. Can you imagine that? And he went from coaching
[02:05.920 -> 02:12.880] the Preston Under-14s team to taking his side up against Lionel Messi in just 10 years.
[02:12.880 -> 02:17.520] It's such a huge leap in such a short space of time and he's had to defy expectations,
[02:17.520 -> 02:21.600] he's had to prove people wrong, he's had to deal with setbacks, he's had to have the courage
[02:21.600 -> 02:27.760] of his convictions. And I think that was the biggest thing that stood out to me from this conversation with Will Still, his ability
[02:27.760 -> 02:32.960] to make really big, level-headed decisions when the stakes are high and the opportunity
[02:32.960 -> 02:38.160] in front of him is huge. I don't think there's anyone managing in football like Will Still.
[02:38.160 -> 02:41.360] There's certainly not a manager in the top five leagues in Europe that's going to come
[02:41.360 -> 02:49.360] on a podcast like this and talk in the way that Will still did. You're going to be surprised and I can't thank Will and his family for
[02:49.360 -> 02:53.520] trusting us enough to come on and have this conversation with us. And I tell you, I don't
[02:53.520 -> 02:57.000] know where Will goes from here. He's had a brilliant start to the season once again at
[02:57.000 -> 03:00.680] Stade de Reims, wherever he goes next, whether it's the Premier League or somewhere else,
[03:00.680 -> 03:09.100] I know he's a big West Ham fan, they are going to be lucky to have him. He may well be managing his country one day. He is that impressive and he has such
[03:09.100 -> 03:15.560] an incredible story. Here he is, the youngest top flight manager in Europe on the High Performance
[03:15.560 -> 03:23.840] Podcast, Will Still.
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[06:08.000 -> 06:10.000] Welcome to High Performance. Thank you, thanks for having me.
[06:10.000 -> 06:12.000] What is high performance?
[06:12.000 -> 06:14.000] Do you know how long and hard I've thought about this question?
[06:14.000 -> 06:16.000] To me it's winning.
[06:16.000 -> 06:19.000] Because you can't have high performance if you don't win,
[06:19.000 -> 06:22.000] or if you're not leaning or tending towards something.
[06:22.000 -> 06:25.800] And to me, or the job that we're in today,
[06:25.800 -> 06:29.400] if you don't win, then you're out of a job, basically.
[06:30.280 -> 06:34.600] So with that comes an environment that you try and create.
[06:34.600 -> 06:36.900] And in that environment, you allow,
[06:36.900 -> 06:40.340] or I try to allow each person to be themselves
[06:40.340 -> 06:43.140] and to enjoy whatever they're doing,
[06:43.140 -> 06:49.660] but to always have in the back of their mind, we're here to win and we're here to win a lot and we're here to win
[06:49.660 -> 06:55.320] on a regular basis and we're here to win on the long term, which is the most
[06:55.320 -> 06:58.840] difficult thing to do. But yeah, today the world of football is summed up by
[06:58.840 -> 07:03.800] winning games or winning the most games over the longest period. So yeah, to me
[07:03.800 -> 07:06.960] my performance is all about winning.
[07:06.960 -> 07:10.560] And the reason we're talking today is because winning is something that you've
[07:10.560 -> 07:13.280] proven you're very good at over the last few seasons.
[07:13.280 -> 07:16.640] Before we talk about the specifics of your journey, your story,
[07:16.640 -> 07:18.560] what you do and how you do it,
[07:18.560 -> 07:21.480] let's just kind of break this down and have a really
[07:21.480 -> 07:30.440] honest and quite vulnerable chat about what it's actually been like for you over the last couple of years to go from Will Still, unknown
[07:30.440 -> 07:36.680] football coach, to Will Still all over every newspaper, every news channel, your
[07:36.680 -> 07:40.120] name is on the lips of all football fans, Premier League clubs talking about you.
[07:40.120 -> 07:47.680] How's that been? Totally weird, totally weird and it's been even sort of
[07:47.680 -> 07:52.140] more weird for me this last week because I went up to Manchester to see family
[07:52.140 -> 07:56.080] last week and I've been in London for two or three days now and people
[07:56.080 -> 08:01.600] recognize you. People like stop you in the street and say oh Will Steele, right Will Steele, how you doing?
[08:01.600 -> 08:05.880] It's like how the hell do you recognise me? You know that in France
[08:05.880 -> 08:08.840] people are gonna recognise you because you work in that league and you know
[08:08.840 -> 08:12.400] you're all over the press there and in Belgium, well I've come from Belgium so
[08:12.400 -> 08:17.560] people know you from that but England to me was like abroad you know people don't
[08:17.560 -> 08:22.920] know me abroad you just sort of get used to it. Do you enjoy it? I don't think it's a
[08:22.920 -> 08:25.640] question of enjoying it or not enjoying it, you just sort of, you
[08:25.640 -> 08:29.440] know, you accept it because I was that person two years ago, three years ago.
[08:29.440 -> 08:33.880] You know, if I'd seen you guys I was like, oh, that's them, you know, I want to fight
[08:33.880 -> 08:37.320] with them, can I, think I'll go up and talk to them, do you think I'll do it?
[08:37.320 -> 08:39.520] Yeah, I was that person.
[08:39.520 -> 08:45.280] So weird and incredibly fast forward, because it's like everything has
[08:45.280 -> 08:53.160] happened over the course of the last of yeah two years in mega mega fast-forward
[08:53.160 -> 08:57.040] and everything's happened so quickly. Why do you think it's happened so quickly
[08:57.040 -> 09:03.180] what do you put it down to? The social life we live in today with social media
[09:03.180 -> 09:05.720] with newspapers with all the media
[09:05.720 -> 09:09.960] attention around it and being I think half English didn't help or did help
[09:09.960 -> 09:14.000] because we know that you know in England everything gets blown up times times 10
[09:14.000 -> 09:20.680] times 20. I never really think about it I know that's easy to say I never really
[09:20.680 -> 09:24.960] sort of get you know my head lost somewhere in all the media attention and
[09:24.960 -> 09:25.280] my social media is going nuts and you know, my head lost somewhere in all the media attention and
[09:25.280 -> 09:32.400] my social media is going nuts and you're having to ask people to deal with it for you because it
[09:32.400 -> 09:38.000] gets too much. And it's like, yeah, okay, that's cool, that's great, you know, I'll do an interview,
[09:38.000 -> 09:43.040] I'll do this, I'll do that, but what I really want to do is win a game of football and I get
[09:44.000 -> 09:45.600] really, really annoyed when we don't win.
[09:46.240 -> 09:51.520] So yeah you get used to it and you just try and sort of set it to one side and not forget about
[09:51.520 -> 09:56.000] it because you know it's always there but try and stay will and try and win games of football and
[09:56.000 -> 10:00.640] that's that's proven to be enough I think in the last few months. So what's the biggest difference of Will
[10:00.640 -> 10:08.160] today than two years ago then? A lot more responsible and a lot more
[10:08.160 -> 10:13.520] confident in myself because two years ago you know I had loads of ideas and I
[10:13.520 -> 10:17.000] had loads of I could talk about football for years and years and years and I could
[10:17.000 -> 10:22.120] analyze games and watch things and see things but I'd always need someone's
[10:22.120 -> 10:25.340] confirmation of oh you know what do you think and you know I'd always need someone's confirmation of, oh, what do you think?
[10:25.340 -> 10:28.200] And I'd get sort of, not annoyed if they hadn't seen
[10:28.200 -> 10:30.940] the same thing as me, but I'd doubt myself.
[10:30.940 -> 10:33.600] And you'd sort of think, oh no, maybe that was wrong.
[10:33.600 -> 10:36.900] Maybe I was talking rubbish and that was something else.
[10:36.900 -> 10:40.160] And then when you're sort of shoved into the limelight
[10:40.160 -> 10:42.360] and it's like, right, well, you've got five games
[10:42.360 -> 10:44.440] before the World Cup, just go and do it.
[10:44.440 -> 10:50.320] Let's do it, let's have a go and so when you know you're in it and
[10:50.320 -> 10:55.200] you've got to do it and it's got to work then you find whatever way to make it
[10:55.200 -> 10:58.960] work try and ignore all the pressure from the outside and just try and win a
[10:58.960 -> 11:05.200] game of football and not gonna say it's easy but I can put myself into that sort of frame of
[11:05.200 -> 11:11.560] mind of right let's do it and the fact of then winning it gives me you know
[11:11.560 -> 11:15.480] confidence in myself doing all the media work because you know you've had you've
[11:15.480 -> 11:20.360] had them all every single news channel in the world has wanted a piece of it
[11:20.360 -> 11:30.560] has wanted to you know tell the story from England or the media from France I had you know people from United States and so it's like well maybe I'm
[11:30.560 -> 11:35.400] not that bad maybe I'm doing something that's half decent but I also know that
[11:35.400 -> 11:39.280] you've got to keep doing it and that's why you know that's part of high
[11:39.280 -> 11:42.600] performance it's good to do it for a period of time but you've got to do it
[11:42.600 -> 11:48.300] over a very long period of time to be very good and that's what I'm trying my very best to do
[11:48.300 -> 11:54.080] But it's a it's difficult. I think the reason why people have gotten onto this story is obviously this
[11:54.920 -> 12:01.200] Football manager on a computer game narrative and then it emerges into real-life football management
[12:01.200 -> 12:03.360] I think we can all understand that right
[12:03.720 -> 12:08.360] But is there an element of frustration from you that that seems to be the sort of dominant
[12:08.360 -> 12:13.000] conversation? Do you attach as much importance to that period of your life
[12:13.000 -> 12:17.000] playing a computer game that the media seem to have done?
[12:17.000 -> 12:22.620] I don't get annoyed at it. It makes me, you know, I'll laugh about it and I'll
[12:22.620 -> 12:29.240] chuckle about whoever wants to believe in that story and I was just like any other kid and people seem to
[12:29.240 -> 12:32.740] sort of make me a half-god playing football manager making it to a real
[12:32.740 -> 12:36.080] football manager but it's like saying oh well you know I played Call of Duty so
[12:36.080 -> 12:41.600] tell you what I'm gonna go to war and do that it's like not quite the same you
[12:41.600 -> 12:48.700] know or I'll tell you what I'm really good at Formula One on the PlayStation. Well I'm gonna drive Formula One. Which by the
[12:48.700 -> 12:51.860] way Lewis Hamilton loves driving games and played them all his life and he
[12:51.860 -> 12:56.840] raced a remote-control car as a kid but the story never became that whereas it
[12:56.840 -> 13:01.420] has that has happened with you hasn't it? I don't mind it you know if people
[13:01.420 -> 13:06.400] want to attach that to me I'm aware aware and I think people around me are aware
[13:07.040 -> 13:12.960] of how much work and how many years of watching football, talking about football, coaching,
[13:12.960 -> 13:18.240] going to university, going to various different things to make it as a football manager wasn't
[13:18.240 -> 13:24.000] just the sort of fast forward from tapping my space bar in Football Manager to making it onto
[13:23.560 -> 13:27.820] fast forward from you know tapping my space bar and football managers to making it onto the onto the bench in Ligue 1 but it's a story that sells you
[13:27.820 -> 13:31.800] know people enjoy that story people like to talk about that story but again
[13:31.800 -> 13:34.520] anything that had to do with football whether it was FIFA whether it was
[13:34.520 -> 13:38.840] football manager whether it was you know fantasy leagues whatever I wanted to try
[13:38.840 -> 13:42.840] it because it was football and my mates were all doing it so why wouldn't I do it?
[13:42.840 -> 13:46.400] So if you'll permit us then Will, I'd like to use a
[13:46.400 -> 13:49.800] a formula that we got it off Sia Khaleesi
[13:49.800 -> 13:52.240] the South African rugby captain that said
[13:52.400 -> 13:54.800] that to him high performance was
[13:54.800 -> 13:57.800] preparation leading to opportunity
[13:57.800 -> 13:59.560] and then executing.
[14:00.040 -> 14:02.600] And I want to talk about the preparation part of it because
[14:02.600 -> 14:05.480] that's the bit that really intrigued me when I was
[14:06.080 -> 14:07.320] preparing for
[14:07.320 -> 14:10.900] The opportunity to meet you today the hard yards you put in
[14:11.600 -> 14:17.240] Tell us a little bit about the story beyond the computer games and the actual learning your craft
[14:17.240 -> 14:22.120] I know this sounds like fairy tale like but ever since I was sort of
[14:22.360 -> 14:25.160] Five or six and I saw my brother Ed you know
[14:25.160 -> 14:27.440] playing football in the garden and playing football with his mates at a
[14:27.440 -> 14:31.960] club it was like I want to try that I want to play football so you know set
[14:31.960 -> 14:36.520] out played with him with footballers that were two years above me and much
[14:36.520 -> 14:39.480] bigger than me and whatever. And this is in Belgium where you grew up? This is back in
[14:39.480 -> 14:43.040] Belgium where we grew up and we were always different because we were the
[14:43.040 -> 14:47.640] English family living in Belgium you know obviously got bright ginger hair which
[14:47.640 -> 14:52.600] doesn't help. I wasn't the best at school, didn't really interest me that much, didn't
[14:52.600 -> 14:57.240] really just didn't captivate me at all and I never struggled I was never like
[14:57.240 -> 15:02.680] useless at it but it just bored me to death. I was like I don't really want to
[15:02.680 -> 15:06.600] go to school and my parents were like no you've got to go to school, you've got to get a job, you've got to do this, you've
[15:06.600 -> 15:14.080] got to do that, whatever. And by the time I was sort of 17, 18 I was finishing normal
[15:14.080 -> 15:21.160] school in Belgium, playing at a decent level in Belgian football and finishing school it
[15:21.160 -> 15:29.840] was like, right what's next? What am I doing I doing where am I going I went into university studies doing physio hated it useless
[15:29.840 -> 15:35.600] title waste of time should never done it and went all the way from September to
[15:35.600 -> 15:41.920] January did the January exams and got an average of I think 1.7 out of 20 on the
[15:41.920 -> 15:45.000] January exams and I was like right that's pretty useless
[15:45.000 -> 15:50.400] and I was like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna stop this this is not what I want to do
[15:50.400 -> 15:53.120] with my life this is not where I want to go. And what was the conversation with
[15:53.120 -> 15:57.220] your parents like? Difficult, really difficult and so I turned around and it was like
[15:57.220 -> 16:00.160] no come on Will what what we're really gonna do you know what you're really
[16:00.160 -> 16:04.720] gonna do with your life and the conversation with my dad my parents had
[16:04.720 -> 16:06.000] split up by then. I had a conversation with my dad, my parents had split up by then,
[16:06.000 -> 16:07.600] I had a conversation with my dad and it was like,
[16:07.600 -> 16:10.160] all right dad, what are we gonna do?
[16:10.160 -> 16:11.400] Where am I gonna go?
[16:11.400 -> 16:13.200] And he was like, well, what do you wanna do?
[16:13.200 -> 16:15.900] I was like, well, what I really wanna do is play football.
[16:15.900 -> 16:18.240] But not quite sure I can make a living out of playing
[16:18.240 -> 16:21.560] football because I was decent but I wasn't that good.
[16:21.560 -> 16:24.360] And he was like, well, let's do it,
[16:24.360 -> 16:26.560] let's see what you can do in football.
[16:26.560 -> 16:31.280] And so went through a whole process of finding studies in football, you know, Belgium obviously
[16:31.280 -> 16:36.160] don't do it because Belgium is a very sort of scholar system where you all sort of go
[16:36.160 -> 16:39.840] through a sausage machine and you all turn out the same after the sausage machine. And
[16:39.840 -> 16:44.960] then found Myerscough College up in Preston here in England, which was a foundation degree
[16:44.960 -> 16:48.900] in football coaching. But it also allowed me to play football for the
[16:48.900 -> 16:52.920] college and train in the morning and then have lessons about pretty much
[16:52.920 -> 16:56.800] everything to do with the footballing world in the afternoon. I visited the
[16:56.800 -> 17:01.200] college in March, got a place on the course and then sort of went from there.
[17:01.200 -> 17:08.640] So what was the difference in terms of your interest levels and how it ignited you with that course compared to the physio one? It was
[17:08.640 -> 17:13.040] football and all I wanted to do was talk about football all I wanted to do was
[17:13.040 -> 17:19.500] either train, like myself on the pitch or watch football, talk about football, see
[17:19.500 -> 17:25.320] football. I know that sounds pretty boring to some but I honestly don't know what I'd
[17:25.320 -> 17:29.040] do if I wasn't in football and you know and the conversation as you said with
[17:29.040 -> 17:32.760] my with my mum was difficult it was like, well football isn't life you
[17:32.760 -> 17:37.040] can't make a life out of football. It was like, well yeah but I think I'd be deeply
[17:37.040 -> 17:40.760] depressed if I wasn't doing something that had to do with football and so it
[17:40.760 -> 17:45.840] was convincing my mum, took a long time, she was like, well, okay, you know, well,
[17:45.840 -> 17:47.760] I suppose a foundation degree isn't too bad,
[17:47.760 -> 17:49.320] so, you know, go and do that
[17:49.320 -> 17:51.320] and we'll see what happens after.
[17:51.320 -> 17:56.320] But it was football or sport on a sort of general level.
[17:57.360 -> 17:58.920] But you know, I tried the physio part of it
[17:58.920 -> 18:01.120] and it was like, no, no, it's football,
[18:01.120 -> 18:02.640] it's gotta be football.
[18:02.640 -> 18:07.040] And Myosco helped me sort of discover
[18:07.040 -> 18:09.440] what else there was to just playing football
[18:09.440 -> 18:13.800] and reading about football in magazines and newspapers
[18:13.800 -> 18:15.560] and really understand that there was actually
[18:15.560 -> 18:18.300] a whole job opportunity behind it
[18:18.300 -> 18:20.720] of there are so many things to do in football.
[18:20.720 -> 18:23.760] You can be a kit man, you can be a physical prep,
[18:23.760 -> 18:29.000] you can be a video analyst, you can be a coach, you can be a sports scientist, you can be whatever.
[18:29.000 -> 18:36.000] But whatever you want to do is there for you to do, you just got to take the opportunity and do it. And that's pretty much what I did.
[18:36.000 -> 18:51.440] There was a part of the course that was video analysis. And I love watching games of football, you know, give me 10 games to watch, I'll watch them all and try and understand what's going on. And that's what I did. Finished the course, came back to Belgium, because Belgium was still home
[18:51.440 -> 18:58.000] for me at that point. And you sort of go on the unknown route of knocking on doors and trying to
[18:58.000 -> 19:02.800] convince people that you can actually do things. And video analysis back in the day wasn't that big
[19:02.800 -> 19:08.640] in Belgium. It was sort of the start of, maybe we might film a game and see what happens in it so it
[19:08.640 -> 19:11.200] was very start and it was difficult convincing people that it was an actual
[19:11.200 -> 19:16.500] job and you know you you get everyone saying oh yeah right you know nice
[19:16.500 -> 19:21.260] profile good to talk to you cheers mate I'll drop you an email sometime you know
[19:21.260 -> 19:28.400] you walk away get any kind of thing oh god so at this point just for clarity you'd finished the course, you'd graduated, you'd gone back to Belgium
[19:28.400 -> 19:32.280] from England and you were to all intents and purposes knocking on doors asking
[19:32.280 -> 19:36.720] for work right? Yeah basically. And how many no's? I don't know how many
[19:36.720 -> 19:41.160] professional clubs there are in Belgium I think 16 plus I think there are about
[19:41.160 -> 19:47.000] 24 professional clubs in Belgium, 22. So how did you learn to deal with that rejection?
[19:47.000 -> 20:08.960] It wasn't an option. It wasn't an option. If they weren't going to let me in as a video analyst or as a, you know, something, I was going to make matter I'll pick the water bottle so I'll put the cones out on the pitch I'll wash the socks I'll
[20:08.960 -> 20:11.880] do whatever as long as I'm with footballers and working in that
[20:11.880 -> 20:19.540] environment and got lucky you need a bit of luck but incredibly lucky I actually
[20:19.540 -> 20:28.840] went back to the club that I'd played for as a kid, who were then in second division, and a door opened, or half opened,
[20:28.840 -> 20:30.640] and I managed to put my foot in it.
[20:30.640 -> 20:33.480] Went to a training session at STVV,
[20:33.480 -> 20:37.520] and went up to the coach and said,
[20:37.520 -> 20:40.760] right mate, I'm Will, I've done this and this,
[20:40.760 -> 20:43.000] could I be of any help to you in the next couple of weeks,
[20:43.000 -> 20:43.840] couple of months?
[20:44.960 -> 20:45.000] Is it something you, the next couple of weeks, couple of months?
[20:45.000 -> 20:52.480] Is it something that takes interest or that could help?" He was like, yeah. Can you film
[20:52.480 -> 20:57.440] a game? I'm like, yeah, I think I can film a game. Can you cut video? Yeah, I can do
[20:57.440 -> 21:01.360] that. Right, well our first opposition in the league is playing tomorrow in the middle
[21:01.360 -> 21:08.400] of nowhere in Belgium. Go film a game, cut it up, make a presentation, do whatever you want and come back to me in a few days. And this
[21:08.400 -> 21:12.280] was on the Tuesday, the team were playing on the Wednesday and went back up on the
[21:12.280 -> 21:17.560] Friday to present you know whatever I'd seen and filmed and it went from
[21:17.560 -> 21:20.760] there. He was like right this is brilliant, do the next one, do the next
[21:20.760 -> 21:26.540] one. And I was like okay but you know what about contract or what
[21:26.540 -> 21:30.040] about you know I didn't want anything but in Belgium you have to be employed
[21:30.040 -> 21:35.600] or you have to be unemployed and get money from from the state. I didn't want
[21:35.600 -> 21:41.000] any money, money just didn't interest me at all at that stage. And he was like
[21:41.000 -> 21:47.160] yeah I'll ask the club, I'll ask the club. I stayed on, I was full time, went every day,
[21:47.160 -> 21:50.080] into the office, went to trainings, film trainings,
[21:50.080 -> 21:52.120] and really got that sort of job going.
[21:53.160 -> 21:54.680] And the club wouldn't give me a contract
[21:54.680 -> 21:56.400] because there was basically no money
[21:56.400 -> 21:57.680] and it wasn't an option.
[21:57.680 -> 21:59.320] So I was like, okay, whatever.
[21:59.320 -> 22:01.440] I was still living at my mum's house.
[22:02.360 -> 22:06.240] I'd got a car, crappy little crappy little car but I got one and that
[22:06.240 -> 22:09.740] was enough. And what was your mum saying to you though because as an adult I can
[22:09.740 -> 22:15.300] imagine if that was my child they'd be like well you've got a worth here and
[22:15.300 -> 22:20.100] you'd be pushing that you need to get some kind of recompense. This is where I
[22:20.100 -> 22:25.320] think I owe my parents a lot is that they could see I was happy and for me
[22:25.320 -> 22:28.040] being happy that was enough and they could see that you know there was
[22:28.040 -> 22:32.320] something that was brewing and something that was in preparation and they were
[22:32.320 -> 22:37.920] patient enough to say okay you can live here you know no no rent no whatever just
[22:37.920 -> 22:40.960] make sure that you're doing your best and it's it's going to lead to something
[22:40.960 -> 22:47.840] and I was lucky enough that it did. And what about within the club though because again I can imagine that if
[22:47.840 -> 22:55.480] they're not attaching any value to it financially, did they attach any
[22:55.480 -> 23:00.880] real value to what you were offering them? Do you see what I mean? That it's
[23:00.880 -> 23:06.000] respected and they can see that it's worth something.
[23:06.000 -> 23:10.920] The club weren't at all, the club weren't bothered at all. I was like, I wouldn't say
[23:10.920 -> 23:15.720] a ghost, but I was just non-existent and you know the coach wanted me there and as long
[23:15.720 -> 23:19.680] as the coach was happy then it was fine. And again we were winning games.
[23:19.680 -> 23:29.120] I think it's a good thing actually. I would love my kids to go somewhere and work hard and not get paid and almost be treated like they're actually invisible
[23:29.120 -> 23:34.800] and I think that builds a resilience within you. I think it it teaches you
[23:34.800 -> 23:39.080] that the world can be tough and also actually tests your, it tests your
[23:39.080 -> 23:42.960] passion. You look like a complete idiot because you walk into you know meeting
[23:42.960 -> 23:48.240] rooms it's like and with you know board of directors or agents of players and whatever it's like
[23:48.240 -> 23:53.320] who are you? You just wait outside please mate. But it's great because it's humbling. Can I
[23:53.320 -> 23:57.760] ask you and I don't want you to worry that this sounds arrogant or conceited
[23:57.760 -> 24:01.040] or anything but I think it provides real value for people when you did that first
[24:01.040 -> 24:07.600] tape and the manager went well that's actually brilliant what do you think was on that that he hadn't seen elsewhere
[24:07.600 -> 24:08.960] that impressed him?
[24:08.960 -> 24:10.560] It's a great question, I've no idea.
[24:10.560 -> 24:11.060] Really?
[24:11.060 -> 24:12.240] And I've never asked him either.
[24:12.240 -> 24:15.840] Because I never, you know, never had to really think about it.
[24:15.840 -> 24:17.680] You're thrown in at a deep end because it was like,
[24:17.680 -> 24:19.520] you know, I didn't have time to think about it.
[24:19.520 -> 24:21.440] It was like, we'll, the game's tomorrow,
[24:21.440 -> 24:23.280] go film it, go and see what you can do,
[24:23.280 -> 24:27.800] bring it back in the next few days. So, Oh you know I've been waiting for this all my life
[24:27.800 -> 24:31.280] you know, wow I've got two days to do it all and you don't have time to think and
[24:31.280 -> 24:35.400] it's like taking the job on now, you don't have time to think. So let me ask you a
[24:35.400 -> 24:41.760] different angle then from your Myers Cuff experience, what did you learn on that
[24:41.760 -> 24:45.480] college course that you felt equipped you to be able to
[24:45.480 -> 24:50.720] go into that professional environment and earn your stripes?
[24:50.720 -> 24:57.320] If I'm being honest in terms of football knowledge itself, not like a million things,
[24:57.320 -> 25:03.000] going to college and talking about football was more learning about myself
[25:03.000 -> 25:06.640] because if you think about it I'm half English
[25:06.640 -> 25:12.160] half Belgian but I was always raised in a Belgian you know environment and now
[25:12.160 -> 25:16.440] I'm going to college in the north of England in the middle of Preston because
[25:16.440 -> 25:19.320] you know I'd sort of been to England to see family and I'd been to England to
[25:19.320 -> 25:24.280] spend a bit of time but I've never lived in England and living in England is like
[25:24.280 -> 25:28.560] totally different it's a different environment, different culture, different
[25:28.560 -> 25:33.840] banter, different way of living and I turn up in Preston you know a little
[25:33.840 -> 25:39.640] posh Belgian kid with you know nice parents and you know you turn up in
[25:39.640 -> 25:42.800] Preston and they all talk funny it's like wow what the hell am I doing here
[25:42.800 -> 25:45.360] why have I done this?
[25:49.200 -> 25:50.080] Why am I sat here in this class listening to you know these northerners talk with their
[25:55.280 -> 25:56.240] weird accent about funny things and laughing about odd things and it's like
[26:00.800 -> 26:04.000] what am I doing here? I just want to go home. It's like no come on you're not going home, it's football you know something's going to come of it, something's going to work out, something's
[26:04.000 -> 26:06.000] going to... That's what the conversation you were having with yourself.
[26:06.000 -> 26:08.000] Yeah, all the time, every day.
[26:08.000 -> 26:10.000] And you know, you sit there on your own in your room,
[26:10.000 -> 26:12.000] a million miles from your family
[26:12.000 -> 26:14.000] and you're thinking, why am I sitting here on my own?
[26:14.000 -> 26:16.000] Why am I doing this?
[26:16.000 -> 26:18.000] And then, you know, you train the next day and go to class,
[26:18.000 -> 26:20.000] and you get used to the environment
[26:20.000 -> 26:22.000] and you get used to the people
[26:22.000 -> 26:24.000] and you get used to the, you know, the rubbish banter that they've got
[26:24.000 -> 26:28.000] and it just sort of made me into who I am
[26:28.000 -> 26:31.920] today but it was really really difficult it sounds stupid for English people but
[26:31.920 -> 26:36.800] it's like okay go to the south of France and study something in the south and see
[26:36.800 -> 26:39.880] how different people are. We were speaking off-camera before Will and I
[26:39.880 -> 26:44.960] was saying that Vincent Kompany attributes growing up in Belgium to have
[26:44.960 -> 26:45.400] it one of
[26:45.400 -> 26:50.080] the great assets that he believes it's developed in him is highly tuned social
[26:50.080 -> 26:54.160] antennae because you're dealing with people from Belgium, from France, from
[26:54.160 -> 26:58.280] Germany that are close proximity, you've got people with Congolese backgrounds,
[26:58.280 -> 27:02.520] you've got the European Parliament there, so you're dealing with so many different
[27:02.520 -> 27:05.400] cultures and backgrounds
[27:05.400 -> 27:10.560] that you have to learn to adapt and I'm interested in what lessons you can teach
[27:10.560 -> 27:16.880] our listeners about how to successfully adapt to a culture that they might not
[27:16.880 -> 27:22.040] be used to. Give it time, don't judge you know a book on its on its appearance
[27:22.040 -> 27:25.360] because that's what college taught me the most, I think.
[27:25.360 -> 27:29.160] It was like, hang on, this is how big the world is,
[27:29.160 -> 27:32.520] and this is how different people can be.
[27:32.520 -> 27:35.120] And you know, nowadays, I'm working with Japanese players,
[27:35.120 -> 27:36.360] I'm working with African players,
[27:36.360 -> 27:37.440] I'm working with French players,
[27:37.440 -> 27:39.220] I'm working with Belgian players.
[27:39.220 -> 27:42.160] We had Balot on loan last year, he was English.
[27:42.160 -> 27:43.480] And it's like, all these cultures
[27:43.480 -> 27:48.880] and all these people are so different. How the hell are we gonna get them into one room onto the
[27:48.880 -> 27:53.880] same pitch doing the same thing at the same time and that's where my experience
[27:53.880 -> 27:58.600] of college helped me the most I think is because I just kept putting myself in
[27:58.600 -> 28:03.120] their feet and thinking okay what would I be thinking if I was sat there in that
[28:03.120 -> 28:05.200] room with all those people around me and people looking at me how would I be thinking if I was sat there in that room with all those people around me and
[28:08.920 -> 28:09.720] people looking at me, how would I react? And so it just gives me that sort of
[28:15.120 -> 28:15.640] slightly better understanding of how a player feels, how a player is going to react and how a player
[28:19.040 -> 28:20.160] is going to perform ultimately because I want him to perform and
[28:29.360 -> 28:35.360] that was the sort of trigger in my career going to college and going out of my comfort zone and going to another country. It just opened my eyes on so many different things and be patient you know if you can see someone's not quite
[28:35.360 -> 28:39.840] comfortable if you can see someone's struggling if you can see someone's you
[28:39.840 -> 28:42.860] know trying to put on a brave face but he just wants to sit there and not say
[28:42.860 -> 28:46.600] anything then let him do that you know and go and talk to him you know one-on-one
[28:46.600 -> 28:53.080] after and say yeah you're alright mate or you sure you're alright and he'd always put
[28:53.080 -> 28:56.000] on a brave face and a players you know because a player has an ego and people
[28:56.000 -> 29:01.880] have you know their self sort of pride but he knows that you know so he's
[29:01.880 -> 29:05.000] already in a better place and in a better space so he can go out on the
[29:05.000 -> 29:10.400] pitch and he's got half a smile on his face and if you then bring that sort of
[29:10.400 -> 29:15.520] topic or bring that conversation into a team meeting it makes it so much easier
[29:15.520 -> 29:20.360] and people are then aware and I did you know when I took over it's like right
[29:20.360 -> 29:27.720] I'm big I'm ginger I talk half decent English half decent French I'm big, I'm ginger, I talk half decent English, half decent French, I'm from Belgium,
[29:27.720 -> 29:32.400] working in France, and I'm gonna get things wrong. Deal with it.
[29:32.400 -> 29:37.200] Junya Ito, he's Japanese, he pretends he can't speak English, but he can. He pretends he
[29:37.200 -> 29:43.600] doesn't understand French, but he does. Eats rice every, you know, lunchtime for a meal.
[29:43.600 -> 29:47.200] Isn't gonna eat, you know, whatever we eat, isn't going to talk whatever
[29:47.200 -> 29:54.720] you're talking about, deal with it. Marshall Munizzi from Zimbabwe talks about cricket,
[29:54.720 -> 30:00.560] runs a lot, smiles a lot, eats weird things too, makes a lot of noise but he's not the
[30:00.560 -> 30:05.200] most comfortable in that situation, deal with it. Okay, and I just went through every player and said,
[30:05.200 -> 30:07.720] right, we all have our own specifics,
[30:07.720 -> 30:10.280] we all have our own weird traits of character,
[30:10.280 -> 30:13.800] we all have almost that thing that makes us special.
[30:13.800 -> 30:16.320] Don't hide it, you know, don't try and put it away,
[30:16.320 -> 30:19.440] don't try and be someone that I don't want you to be,
[30:19.440 -> 30:21.320] just be whoever you wanna be.
[30:21.320 -> 30:24.040] Just make sure you're there to win games.
[30:24.040 -> 30:25.440] And that sort
[30:25.440 -> 30:28.880] of college experience made me into this, you know, the person, the understanding
[30:28.880 -> 30:33.440] person that I am today of, right, yeah, if we want to get win games and there are so
[30:33.440 -> 30:37.120] many different people in the room, this is how we're trying to have to go and
[30:37.120 -> 30:41.400] get there. And ultimately it worked for a bit this year and we've got a few
[30:41.400 -> 30:49.840] positive results and yeah, the rest is history. How important then is it for you to be a vulnerable coaching manager?
[30:49.840 -> 30:55.000] You've got to choose your moment, you've got to pick your moment I think because players have to respect you as well.
[30:55.000 -> 31:01.000] You have to show that you're capable of dealing with the shit that comes your way and the rubbish that comes your way.
[31:01.000 -> 31:10.160] So when you're in front of them and the group is sat there in front of you, you've got to be normal because players identify when you're
[31:10.160 -> 31:13.840] trying to be someone else and trying to pretend to be what you're not.
[31:13.840 -> 31:18.720] And so I said, those were my first words, I'm Will, I know you,
[31:18.720 -> 31:22.640] you know me, you know what I'm like, all I want to do is win a game of football.
[31:22.640 -> 31:28.920] And I want to win another game of football and I want to win another game of football. I'm going to mess things up, I'm telling you
[31:28.920 -> 31:33.760] now so please if you've got to mess things up mess as many things up as you can but let's
[31:33.760 -> 31:37.320] do it so that we're learning from it and then we're going to win games of football. So yes
[31:37.320 -> 31:40.720] you've got to be vulnerable in the fact of admitting that you're going to mess things
[31:40.720 -> 31:46.820] up and you're going to fail at certain things but it's all right to fail. It's all right to get things wrong.
[31:46.820 -> 31:49.060] And giving that sort of freedom to the players
[31:49.060 -> 31:50.620] of getting things wrong on the pitch,
[31:50.620 -> 31:51.780] it's like, doesn't matter, mate,
[31:51.780 -> 31:53.540] get up, stand up, do it again.
[31:53.540 -> 31:56.380] So they understand that you can get things wrong,
[31:56.380 -> 31:58.500] but that you're there to win.
[31:58.500 -> 32:01.020] And if we're not learning from the mistakes
[32:01.020 -> 32:04.100] that we're making, then we're wasting our time.
[32:04.100 -> 32:08.600] So yes, I'll be vulnerable, and and yes I'll be accepting to making mistakes and I'll be
[32:08.600 -> 32:13.140] accepting to whatever you need to be in the best space possible but once we've
[32:13.140 -> 32:16.880] identified that space and once we've got you into a position where you can
[32:16.880 -> 32:23.640] perform it's down to you and you're paid a lot more than I am to perform up to
[32:23.640 -> 32:25.360] you and if you're not going to perform then I'm, to perform, up to you. And if you're not gonna perform,
[32:25.360 -> 32:27.120] then I'm gonna tell you that you're not gonna perform.
[32:27.120 -> 32:29.640] So it's finding that honesty as well of saying,
[32:29.640 -> 32:32.920] listen mate, I've created this environment for you,
[32:32.920 -> 32:35.680] I've built the team around you to do this,
[32:35.680 -> 32:36.920] you know exactly what's gonna happen,
[32:36.920 -> 32:38.920] I know exactly what's gonna happen,
[32:38.920 -> 32:42.160] I can't control you, I'm not playing FIFA, up to you.
[32:42.160 -> 32:43.880] So you're understanding, but you're also
[32:43.880 -> 32:48.880] in a sort of harsh reality of high performance,'ve got to perform we've got to do this and if
[32:48.880 -> 32:51.960] you're not then I'm gonna tell you you're not. And that's you talking at 30
[32:51.960 -> 32:55.480] years old still incredibly young for what you're doing but you've actually
[32:55.480 -> 33:00.720] had six years of experience as a manager so you did the period as an analyst
[33:00.720 -> 33:08.100] moved clubs became an assistant the manager lost his job. At 24 you were
[33:08.100 -> 33:13.340] offered your first management job in the Belgian second division. What were you
[33:13.340 -> 33:18.360] like that day? The day that you were told you're not gonna manage this team. How
[33:18.360 -> 33:21.660] different was that Will to the Will that's just really eloquently described
[33:21.660 -> 33:25.400] how he manages today? I think Will was the same,
[33:25.400 -> 33:27.120] because he'd been through, you know,
[33:27.120 -> 33:29.560] those college years and that sort of
[33:29.560 -> 33:32.880] early life in football where no one really knew me.
[33:32.880 -> 33:35.080] And so I don't think Will's changed, I think
[33:37.360 -> 33:38.920] the way the message gets across
[33:38.920 -> 33:40.840] is maybe different or slightly better.
[33:42.900 -> 33:44.200] But again, I was, you know,
[33:44.200 -> 33:46.040] it was like overnight, we played on the Wednesday
[33:46.040 -> 33:48.760] night away
[33:49.560 -> 33:54.720] the club decided to fire the coach straight after the game on the bus home it was
[33:54.720 -> 33:59.040] like right well that's from tomorrow your coach you know you sat there
[33:59.040 -> 34:02.720] thinking hang on hang on there's another assistant there who's 52 there's one
[34:02.720 -> 34:12.000] there sat next to me who's 56 who's got 52 caps for Belgium. Why the hell am I being cut? What? Why?
[34:12.000 -> 34:17.360] And the president at that time, Egyptian owner, said yeah whatever don't care
[34:17.360 -> 34:21.080] about them you're doing it. I said no president please just try and
[34:21.080 -> 34:27.680] understand me this is like weird there are better people for this job.
[34:27.680 -> 34:28.840] And he's just saying, yeah, well,
[34:28.840 -> 34:30.160] I don't care about other people.
[34:30.160 -> 34:33.580] I like you, you've got good ideas, you do it.
[34:34.760 -> 34:36.440] So I co-present, I'll do it for the next game,
[34:36.440 -> 34:39.680] I'll prepare the game on the weekend, on the Sunday,
[34:39.680 -> 34:42.760] and we'll talk about it after.
[34:42.760 -> 34:44.120] Yeah, yeah, okay, whatever.
[34:47.600 -> 34:52.120] Hang up, shit shit now what turned around to the other assistants and said right the president wants me to
[34:52.120 -> 34:56.200] do it are you alright with this you know are you okay with it um I've no idea
[34:56.200 -> 35:01.560] what I'm doing by the way but are you okay with it yeah you know whatever
[35:01.560 -> 35:05.580] let's go for it I was a baby you know I was a kid I was 24
[35:05.580 -> 35:11.220] and again you know I remember the next day we had recovery training so everyone
[35:11.220 -> 35:14.340] was in the gym and I took no one out onto the pitch because normally the
[35:14.340 -> 35:17.340] players that didn't play you know go out on the pitch but it was like no forget
[35:17.340 -> 35:23.300] the pitch we're in here and got everyone together it was like right if I'm gonna
[35:23.300 -> 35:25.680] be honest we're really really
[35:25.680 -> 35:31.320] really shit we were bottom of the league back then. Did you say that to them? Yeah but it was so
[35:31.320 -> 35:35.520] obvious it was like there's an elephant in the room it's like right we're shit
[35:35.520 -> 35:40.600] and it's not criticism because we've all been shit we all together have been
[35:40.600 -> 35:49.760] utter rubbish and I think we all know that and the players sat there and sort of thought yeah yeah we've not been very good and it was like
[35:49.760 -> 35:56.000] right so you know I haven't got a magic wand I haven't got the answer right here
[35:56.000 -> 36:01.800] right now what are we gonna do and the captain Fred France he's called Fred
[36:01.800 -> 36:08.280] stood up and said well tell you what Will we can't do any worse than we've been doing so we might as well just you know try and
[36:08.280 -> 36:11.840] enjoy it. They'd missed promotion the year before for you know one point and
[36:11.840 -> 36:15.440] they were then bottom of the league it was like we haven't turned into a bad team
[36:15.440 -> 36:22.320] you know overnight. And how much of the squad was the same? 90% 95% we haven't turned into a
[36:22.320 -> 36:30.060] bad squad overnight so right take fingers out our ass let's just have a go and that's just basically what we did
[36:30.060 -> 36:33.640] but again maybe it was giving the freedom to that captain at that point to
[36:33.640 -> 36:38.360] stand up and say right come let's take a finger out our ass because before that
[36:38.360 -> 36:43.320] it was difficult coach was very sort of you know one way one quite dictatorial
[36:43.320 -> 36:46.000] yeah very so how much thought
[36:46.000 -> 36:50.420] goes into those first few words that you deliver to the players and how much are
[36:50.420 -> 36:54.700] you operating on instinct at this point? At that stage when I was 24 total
[36:54.700 -> 37:00.020] instinct nothing premeditated at all. I'd brick in it. I'd slept at the club after
[37:00.020 -> 37:04.020] after the game when we got back absolutely brick in it. Didn't sleep I was
[37:04.020 -> 37:10.280] like you know I'm 24. When you say I bricking it, take us into those thoughts. My biggest fear was I
[37:10.280 -> 37:15.280] hope we're not gonna lose 10-0 you know I remember sitting there I was like okay
[37:15.280 -> 37:19.600] what's the best team gonna be what are the 11 names I can put out on that pitch
[37:19.600 -> 37:24.320] that I have a chance and I knew they were good players they were just playing
[37:24.320 -> 37:30.160] rubbish it was like what if I get beat 10-0 and I'm the 24 year old that turns
[37:30.160 -> 37:35.240] into a video gag and you know goes all over social media and mess things up and
[37:35.240 -> 37:41.640] loses 10-0. I don't want to be that. So I had a very long conversation with my
[37:41.640 -> 37:49.840] older brother and it was like Ed you know what am I doing? He's like okay yeah this is weird I was like yeah I know Ed but
[37:49.840 -> 37:55.960] come on help me and it was like well go go back to basics what you know what do
[37:55.960 -> 38:00.760] we do when teams are losing? Well then low block 4-4-2 do that.
[38:00.760 -> 38:03.920] Exactly as the two of you would have been doing on in all honesty on that
[38:03.920 -> 38:05.440] computer game all those years before right?
[38:05.440 -> 38:12.200] Oh, yeah, or watching you know match the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, whatever teams we'd been watching, you know criticizing the coach
[38:12.200 -> 38:14.200] Yeah, that's what you know supporters do. It's like
[38:14.720 -> 38:19.560] You know, whatever coach you rubbish get him off take him off do this do that. I had him on the phone
[38:19.560 -> 38:25.920] It's like Ed, you know what we're doing. Such a mad story on the phone to your older brother trying to work out how to manage a football club.
[38:25.920 -> 38:31.640] What does Ed do? Ed's a football coach now. Right. He works in the Belgian first division. I love it. Still now.
[38:31.640 -> 38:35.440] But at the time when you phoned him was he in football?
[38:35.480 -> 38:41.340] When I left my first role as a video analyst and went to Standard Liège the club STVV told me
[38:41.680 -> 38:48.360] by the time they'd recognized that I was actually doing a decent job and you know it was actually quite useful that I went into the
[38:48.360 -> 38:51.840] office said right you know the coach is leaving to St-Hilaire I'm going with him
[38:51.840 -> 38:55.280] and they were like well we've given you a contract three months ago you're not
[38:55.280 -> 38:59.440] leaving. I was like yeah I am I'm going to St-Hilaire because it's one of the best
[38:59.440 -> 39:03.520] clubs in Belgium and you know it's an opportunity. You didn't pay me for a year
[39:03.520 -> 39:05.640] you didn't acknowledge that I existed.
[39:05.640 -> 39:07.720] This club is now giving me a very basic contract,
[39:07.720 -> 39:09.040] but at least they're giving me a contract
[39:09.040 -> 39:12.620] and I'm going with the coach who gave me the opportunity.
[39:12.620 -> 39:15.200] Okay, but before you leave you've got to find a replacement.
[39:15.200 -> 39:17.480] So I went back in my car, sat in my car five minutes,
[39:17.480 -> 39:19.480] was like right, if they want to take the piss,
[39:19.480 -> 39:20.400] I'm going to take the piss.
[39:20.400 -> 39:21.240] Walked into the office, said right,
[39:21.240 -> 39:22.920] I've got a replacement for you.
[39:22.920 -> 39:23.760] Who is it?
[39:23.760 -> 39:24.720] Oh, my older brother, Ed.
[39:24.720 -> 39:28.560] And they were like, no, come on. I was like no he's brilliant you know he's
[39:28.560 -> 39:32.080] really good at what he does you know he sees the game how I see it and he
[39:32.080 -> 39:35.360] understands how to work all the video stuff and it was like Ed right come back
[39:35.360 -> 39:39.280] to Belgium you've got a job in football and he started and replaced me as a
[39:39.280 -> 39:43.680] video analyst at the previous club so we were doing you know more or less the
[39:43.680 -> 39:45.000] same thing and it was
[39:45.000 -> 39:48.000] like okay well what team are we putting out and he was like well you've got to
[39:48.000 -> 39:50.920] choose that mate, I haven't seen them in training, I haven't seen them you know
[39:50.920 -> 39:55.680] what the energy is like and all of that. Went out played a 4-2-3-1 pretty low
[39:55.680 -> 39:59.000] block transition football because it was going back to basics it was like okay
[39:59.000 -> 40:03.200] let's go back to basics what can they do how can they identify things in the
[40:03.200 -> 40:09.880] simplest way and we then went on a 10 game unbeaten run winning eight of them and it sort of went from
[40:09.880 -> 40:14.560] there again and it was like oh I can do this it's alright and yeah again the rest
[40:14.560 -> 40:18.240] is history. And what was the biggest challenge during that 10 game run that
[40:18.240 -> 40:21.840] you hadn't anticipated that you had to deal with now as a head coach?
[40:21.840 -> 40:29.120] Attention. Attention from the outside world and pressure from the outside world because you know in the same way
[40:29.120 -> 40:34.160] now I've gone from being no one to suddenly existing in people's minds.
[40:34.160 -> 40:39.480] I was a 24 year old who should never have been a head coach I had only got my
[40:39.480 -> 40:46.440] UEFA B licence I think at that stage. Who was coaching the team in second division in Belgium,
[40:46.440 -> 40:49.040] who was on a 10 game unbeaten run.
[40:49.040 -> 40:50.120] No one does that.
[40:50.120 -> 40:52.060] And it was like, who are you?
[40:52.960 -> 40:55.960] And so you get camera crews coming to film you
[40:55.960 -> 40:57.420] all day from your home.
[40:58.440 -> 41:00.200] And I was actually still living with my mum at that stage,
[41:00.200 -> 41:01.160] which is embarrassing.
[41:01.160 -> 41:02.560] Follow you through the club,
[41:04.020 -> 41:06.080] film you during the game, film you post-match,
[41:06.880 -> 41:11.760] and make a whole sort of documentary about who is Will Still the next, whoever he was.
[41:12.640 -> 41:18.400] And people criticise you. I got absolutely hammered in the Belgian press for the way I'd
[41:18.400 -> 41:25.000] behaved on the touchline or the way I'd... No, it was a Pep Talkp talk pregame so they'd film the pep talk pregame and I'm
[41:25.000 -> 41:31.560] just honest my language is or came across as awkward back in the day because
[41:31.560 -> 41:35.840] again Belgium is very sort of boxed off and structured and you can't talk too
[41:35.840 -> 41:40.560] loudly and you can't make too much noise it was football changing room language
[41:40.560 -> 41:46.200] you know the f-word comes out and whatever and got absolutely excited. What did they say?
[41:46.200 -> 41:54.800] Oh, Will still, he's 24, he has no idea of the words that he's using, he doesn't identify
[41:54.800 -> 42:00.520] the people around him, shouldn't be coached, fire him, should be, you know, should go back
[42:00.520 -> 42:01.920] to school and learn how to...
[42:01.920 -> 42:09.600] Were you being described as English as well? I was being described as half English half... they painted the portrait
[42:09.600 -> 42:14.520] alright, it just absolutely hammered me. And how did that feel? Horrible because my mum, I
[42:14.520 -> 42:17.920] was watching it with my mum on the Monday night, in Belgium they have
[42:17.920 -> 42:20.760] the games at the weekend and on the Monday night people go on telly and talk
[42:20.760 -> 42:24.440] about the games at the weekend and all of a sudden my face pops up and the
[42:24.440 -> 42:27.280] thing and the documentary is sort of you know shown
[42:27.280 -> 42:32.200] the bit at halftime is shown and yeah even I was sat there looking at it and
[42:32.200 -> 42:37.520] thinking wow well that's not me and that's not quite what I said and it was
[42:37.520 -> 42:40.080] all taken out of context obviously because when you take it out of context
[42:40.080 -> 42:45.160] and it looks bad you know these 40, 50 year old men, five of them sat around
[42:45.160 -> 42:50.880] the table with half of Belgium watching, saying how bad I was and how rude and
[42:50.880 -> 42:57.720] how not educated and how I should go back to school and back to learning the
[42:57.720 -> 43:01.640] language the right way and it was like my mum was sat next to me and you sort of
[43:01.640 -> 43:05.840] sit there and think... And what was her reaction? Speechless, didn't say anything.
[43:05.840 -> 43:10.440] I didn't know what to say, you know, I was sat there on the settee next to her.
[43:10.440 -> 43:14.040] There's a recurring theme here right from the start of your career when you
[43:14.040 -> 43:16.840] didn't have a contract and you were being ignored at your first club there's
[43:16.840 -> 43:21.280] a recurring theme of being undervalued and misunderstood, actually isn't there?
[43:21.280 -> 43:26.480] Potentially yeah but again never sort of really thought about it and it didn't, it
[43:26.480 -> 43:33.060] hurt a lot that evening. I remember you know sort of having a weird 20 minutes where no
[43:33.060 -> 43:38.400] one really spoke and you know I think my first question was you alright mum? And she was
[43:38.400 -> 43:44.000] like yeah what you gonna do? I ain't got a clue mum. Most people's answer would be well
[43:44.000 -> 43:46.920] I'm gonna change the way I act to please other people.
[43:46.920 -> 43:49.520] But we were winning. You know, we'd won the game.
[43:49.520 -> 43:54.880] But did it leave an element of self-doubt and, am I doing the right thing, do I need to do it differently?
[43:54.880 -> 43:56.920] Massive, yeah, massive.
[43:56.920 -> 43:59.920] Am I allowed to use that language?
[43:59.920 -> 44:02.360] The players haven't said anything to me, so...
[44:02.360 -> 44:05.000] I think it's alright, but maybe I should talk
[44:05.000 -> 44:10.560] about it, or maybe I shouldn't talk about it, or maybe I shouldn't talk to press anymore.
[44:10.560 -> 44:11.560] Maybe that's the answer.
[44:11.560 -> 44:13.400] If I don't talk to press, then they can't annoy me.
[44:13.400 -> 44:16.560] But you have to talk to press because you have contractual obligations.
[44:16.560 -> 44:19.320] I can't do that.
[44:19.320 -> 44:23.920] And then it was like, okay, I'll try and deal with it, or I'll try and stick it to the back
[44:23.920 -> 44:24.920] of my mind.
[44:24.920 -> 44:30.240] Went in the next day, I was like, okay, people, and deal with it or I'll try and stick it to the back of my mind went in the next day I was like okay people you've seen it yeah yeah we've
[44:30.240 -> 44:34.880] seen it anything else? Nope? Okay put that to bed and let's keep going.
[44:34.880 -> 44:38.320] I mean I love this because this is such a human conversation because we all look
[44:38.320 -> 44:42.360] at you know you are managing a club in one of the top five leagues in Europe
[44:42.360 -> 44:45.920] going up against some of the biggest clubs in the world as a manager.
[44:45.920 -> 44:48.480] And I think the outside world sees people like that
[44:48.480 -> 44:51.120] as different, not as like everybody else,
[44:51.120 -> 44:53.840] but having exactly the same thoughts, doubts, fears,
[44:53.840 -> 44:56.040] worries, conversations with your mum,
[44:56.040 -> 44:57.480] that everyone listening to this podcast
[44:57.480 -> 44:58.960] or watching this podcast would have.
[44:58.960 -> 45:00.280] Oh yeah, 100%.
[45:00.280 -> 45:02.000] Someone at Lord's said to me yesterday,
[45:02.000 -> 45:04.200] oh Will, you know, you're half God.
[45:04.200 -> 45:06.400] You're unbelievable at what you do. It's like no
[45:06.400 -> 45:07.960] I'm not my I'm just will
[45:07.960 -> 45:10.540] You know, and I'm no I'm not and I know that if I lose, you know
[45:10.540 -> 45:14.900] The first five games of the season I'm gonna be sacked. That's just a reality of football right now
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[47:53.060 -> 48:01.120] mint mobile for details. So let's do the next sort of leg on this fascinating
[48:01.120 -> 48:04.040] story so you're managing at this point because then actually you went back to
[48:04.040 -> 48:08.880] being an assistant who got a management job again with a SAC
[48:08.880 -> 48:11.680] manager and then became an assistant and I think this is really interesting
[48:11.680 -> 48:15.180] because this was a period in your career where you actually had the courage to go
[48:15.180 -> 48:19.720] and walk in a way again at a young age which I think is really brave would you
[48:19.720 -> 48:23.000] mind sharing that story with us? Yeah so the club that I was at when I was 24
[48:23.000 -> 48:29.000] went bust at the end of that season which was also really difficult because managing people
[48:29.000 -> 48:32.760] that aren't paid for three months is something tough and you know they walk
[48:32.760 -> 48:37.640] up to you and say well I'm not training. Alright mate, why not? Well I'm being paid.
[48:37.640 -> 48:41.400] Why would I play if I'm not paid? I wasn't getting paid at all.
[48:41.400 -> 48:48.880] Right. And no one at the club had been paid. Basically the last sort of five months of that we were out of the club no one was paid
[48:48.880 -> 48:53.760] but we still got games to play. We were top of the league five games towards the
[48:53.760 -> 48:57.760] end and there was a proper possibility of us you know getting somewhere.
[48:57.760 -> 49:01.600] And you were bottom when you took over? Yeah yeah we were bottom of the league but
[49:01.600 -> 49:08.080] second division works in a weird way it's like periods so you win the first part of the league and then you win the second part
[49:08.080 -> 49:12.040] of the league and then those two winners play against each other in the final but it
[49:12.040 -> 49:16.760] was like okay I know money is important and I know you know you all want a job
[49:16.760 -> 49:21.800] but the actual fact is we don't have a choice because you can't walk away from
[49:21.800 -> 49:28.480] the club and go and sign somewhere else right now because the club hasn't been you know declared as bankrupt we haven't
[49:28.480 -> 49:32.600] got a choice so either we come in here and say I'll tell you what let's have a go
[49:32.600 -> 49:37.040] and let's just play for the pure simple fact of enjoying football and playing
[49:37.040 -> 49:41.620] football or not playing that's your choice and I totally respect it not one
[49:41.620 -> 49:47.860] single player stopped we had a protest day because the media would come to training so we didn't train that day and the players had come to me
[49:47.860 -> 49:52.500] and said right well media are here we're not training. Not a problem, fine, totally get it.
[49:52.500 -> 49:57.820] So you created real unity then between you and the players? Oh massively, it was easy though, well easy.
[49:57.820 -> 50:04.100] It was made easy because of the environment and you know conditions
[50:04.100 -> 50:05.800] around it but I'm pretty sure
[50:05.800 -> 50:10.080] I would have asked any one of those players to run at that brick wall and
[50:10.080 -> 50:13.040] smash their head through it they would have done it because you know that's
[50:13.040 -> 50:18.640] what the team needed. Anyway the club went bust, moved on back as an assistant, spent
[50:18.640 -> 50:25.380] three years at Birkscot, it was again back in second division, we got promoted in the second season.
[50:26.760 -> 50:28.760] First year back in first division,
[50:28.760 -> 50:31.680] the coach, Hernan Lozada, he went to the MLS,
[50:31.680 -> 50:33.720] got on off from the MLS and left.
[50:33.720 -> 50:35.280] And I was supposed to go with him.
[50:35.280 -> 50:36.600] It was, you know, he turned around and said,
[50:36.600 -> 50:38.480] Will, right, you're coming with me, mate.
[50:38.480 -> 50:42.720] I was buzzing, you know, MLS, better money, big money,
[50:42.720 -> 50:44.920] different environment, different culture.
[50:44.920 -> 50:45.200] Yeah, let's go, cool. Then the club turned around and said, Will, where you going? better money, big money, different environment, different culture, yeah it's
[50:45.200 -> 50:49.880] going cool. Then the club turned around and said where are you going? I thought I'm
[50:49.880 -> 50:57.520] fucking off, I'm off. Yeah no you're not, you're our head coach. Right, okay and I'm
[50:57.520 -> 51:01.720] 28 at that stage and again it's sort of like we've got a game in three days. By the
[51:01.720 -> 51:07.160] time the old coach had left we were on a of, I think we'd got zero out of 21
[51:07.160 -> 51:10.240] or 24 points, so on a terrible run of form,
[51:10.240 -> 51:11.640] right in the middle of COVID, loads of players
[51:11.640 -> 51:13.880] who'd got COVID, I'd had COVID too,
[51:13.880 -> 51:16.760] and it was, right, we'll sort it out,
[51:16.760 -> 51:19.200] finish in a decent place in the league,
[51:19.200 -> 51:21.800] and then we'll see where we are at the end of the season.
[51:21.800 -> 51:28.760] End of January, so we'd got about 12, 13 games games left and I've all of a sudden become the youngest head coach in
[51:28.760 -> 51:34.700] Belgian history or something you know odd like that and the media got hold of
[51:34.700 -> 51:37.700] it and it was like ah Will Steele's back, oh right Will Steele from Rijksaal, he was like
[51:37.700 -> 51:43.040] oh he's back. Won a few games, finished ninth in the league which was slap bang
[51:43.040 -> 51:45.160] in the middle of it, did alright
[51:45.160 -> 51:49.520] and then at the end of the season the club came back to me and said oh well
[51:49.520 -> 51:54.800] you know second season syndrome back in first division is always the toughest so
[51:54.800 -> 51:57.520] we're gonna bring in a coach who's got you know bags of experience I think he
[51:57.520 -> 52:02.500] was 61 at that point, knows the Belgian league off by heart so he's our new head
[52:02.500 -> 52:10.680] coach. You know I was not disappointed but frustrated that I couldn't keep the train rolling yeah and
[52:10.680 -> 52:15.040] didn't get the opportunity to prove that I could have done it. Did you feel a bit
[52:15.040 -> 52:20.840] undervalued? A bit yeah but I was like okay cool maybe and that's probably the
[52:20.840 -> 52:30.000] biggest thing that I've changed today is when you ask me you know what's the difference is like I'm a bit more self-confident not a lot
[52:30.000 -> 52:33.800] so I don't like talking about myself and I can't sell myself at all when people
[52:33.800 -> 52:39.120] sort of think I'm a bit of a weirdo it's like yeah okay cheers for that Will and
[52:39.120 -> 52:42.080] we'll go to someone else and they'll pick someone else who talks well and
[52:42.080 -> 52:49.360] who's yeah who looks good so this new coach came in and so I asked them well you know what role do you want
[52:49.360 -> 52:53.640] me to have what where am I going with this and said oh you know we want you to
[52:53.640 -> 52:57.240] be assistant because you're a great assistant not sure I want to do that
[52:57.240 -> 53:05.100] because it's weird when you've been a coach of a certain group of players
[53:10.100 -> 53:11.360] to then turn back into an assistant with another coach. It's like he's got his ideas,
[53:11.360 -> 53:13.920] but these players know that my ideas are these.
[53:15.000 -> 53:17.440] And I don't know, I just didn't feel it.
[53:17.440 -> 53:20.280] And it was like, tell you what, I'm not doing it.
[53:20.280 -> 53:21.200] For the first time in my life,
[53:21.200 -> 53:23.920] I'm gonna walk away from football and say,
[53:23.920 -> 53:26.200] for the good of that team and those players
[53:26.400 -> 53:29.520] It's not the right thing for me to still be in that club at that point
[53:29.800 -> 53:32.280] What now will you can't leave you can't do this you can't do that
[53:32.280 -> 53:35.720] It's like no no honestly believe me you do not want me at that football club anymore
[53:35.720 -> 53:37.880] I'm not I wouldn't be in the right place
[53:38.800 -> 53:42.580] Yeah, well you still got contract with us. It's like okay fine. I'll pay whatever you want me to pay
[53:42.580 -> 53:46.960] I'll pay it off honestly the best thing for everyone is for me not to be there.
[53:46.960 -> 53:49.640] Was there not fear there though because once you're out the game you're out the game
[53:49.640 -> 53:57.160] and this is a job offer and... Oh yes I had shit you know I didn't want to be six
[53:57.160 -> 54:01.280] months out of a job I didn't want to watch you know other people talk about
[54:01.280 -> 54:05.680] football and do football and give training sessions. How did you quieten that fearful voice?
[54:06.480 -> 54:07.760] Didn't.
[54:07.760 -> 54:09.760] It was like just one of those
[54:10.640 -> 54:13.920] random decisions, one of those many random decisions that I've made in my life of
[54:15.440 -> 54:18.040] do it. It feels right now. It's
[54:18.800 -> 54:21.960] should be okay. Just try it. So is gut instinct a big thing for you?
[54:21.960 -> 54:28.120] Massively, yeah. All I do is instinct I think, you know, I sort of have a think about it and think does this feel okay?
[54:28.120 -> 54:34.040] Is this, am I okay with this? Okay do it or don't do it. Well what changed in your
[54:34.040 -> 54:38.120] relationship with the industry that you're the kid that came in and worked
[54:38.120 -> 54:44.480] for a year for nothing in the shadows and now you're the young man choosing to
[54:44.480 -> 54:47.740] walk away and pay back a contract. What
[54:47.740 -> 54:52.060] was it that had changed in your perception of the industry? Not a lot
[54:52.060 -> 54:58.000] because it was as if I was being kicked out again. You know in that first year it
[54:58.000 -> 55:02.000] was like well he's annoying, he's come to watch trainings and he's there but
[55:02.000 -> 55:08.760] we're not paying him so he's alright we can ignore him and here it was well he's done alright but you know we want
[55:08.760 -> 55:13.400] we want a good coaching and we want a coach that's gonna you know be able to
[55:13.400 -> 55:16.500] manage the team on the long term or whatever the club actually went down in
[55:16.500 -> 55:21.000] the year after and so it was just that feeling of people don't really want you
[55:21.000 -> 55:24.880] there go away it was that feeling that you have. But there's something that you
[55:24.880 -> 55:25.960] said that you love football
[55:25.960 -> 55:33.540] So you'd have done anything to be involved in football, but my you're walking away from football and I'm interested my perception of yourself
[55:34.240 -> 55:35.440] Yeah
[55:35.440 -> 55:39.960] My perception of football wasn't the reality that I was getting back, right?
[55:40.360 -> 55:43.640] You know, I was like this professional world of football is a tough place
[55:44.480 -> 55:48.240] and people are gonna bite and people are gonna attack you and people are gonna
[55:48.240 -> 55:54.200] try and stick a proper knife in your back if you're not careful so be aware
[55:54.200 -> 55:58.760] of that but don't lose the love that you have for football don't forget what it
[55:58.760 -> 56:03.480] is you love and you know for me the love of football is watching it with my
[56:03.480 -> 56:06.360] brothers watching you know you guys on telly watching
[56:06.920 -> 56:08.920] Much today on Saturday night
[56:09.480 -> 56:16.680] Going out on a freshly cut grass with new balls your new boots on and thinking this is the life
[56:17.040 -> 56:21.780] I'd pay to stand on a perfect football pitch freshly mown grass
[56:22.620 -> 56:28.400] With a ball 15 18 players or more and a set of cones, I'd pay to do that.
[56:29.200 -> 56:34.080] Because you feel so good and you've got that new kit on and pre-season is going to start in a few days and it's like,
[56:34.080 -> 56:37.840] oh yeah, best feeling in the world, I'd pay to do that.
[56:38.400 -> 56:42.640] And whatever I was getting back was not, that's not football for me.
[56:43.160 -> 56:50.320] And I just decided to like, okay, that's not football for me and I just decided to like okay that's your reality um I accept it that's fine my reality isn't
[56:50.320 -> 56:56.080] that and so I walked away and thought you know what next maybe I need a few
[56:56.080 -> 57:01.920] days off so I thought about a holiday and literally two days later Stade de Reims
[57:01.920 -> 57:06.080] where I am now my phone rings and I'm like, French number,
[57:06.080 -> 57:08.160] it's a bit odd, don't pick up.
[57:09.280 -> 57:11.340] It leaves me a message saying, oh, hello Will,
[57:11.340 -> 57:13.740] this is Mathieu Lacour from Stade de Reims,
[57:13.740 -> 57:16.260] general director, if you've got five minutes,
[57:16.260 -> 57:17.700] give me a ring back.
[57:17.700 -> 57:19.140] And I was like, what?
[57:19.140 -> 57:20.460] Yeah, I showed it to one of my friends,
[57:20.460 -> 57:21.980] he's like, do you think this is real
[57:21.980 -> 57:25.360] or do you think this is a piss take or something?
[57:25.360 -> 57:27.720] So I'm like, no, no, no, Will, ring him up.
[57:27.720 -> 57:29.520] So I ring him up and have a conversation of,
[57:29.520 -> 57:31.880] and they say, oh right, Will, we've been following you
[57:31.880 -> 57:35.180] since your days in Leeds when you were 24.
[57:35.180 -> 57:37.640] We've come to watch a few sessions of yours this year
[57:37.640 -> 57:38.600] without you knowing.
[57:39.480 -> 57:41.640] Love your energy, love your style.
[57:41.640 -> 57:44.720] We're looking for an assistant coach next year in Reims.
[57:44.720 -> 57:47.800] Fancy it? Yeah,
[57:47.800 -> 57:53.680] I'm on it, yeah, get me there. So I went down two days later, visited the club, visited
[57:53.680 -> 58:00.080] all the infrastructure which was a different level to what I'd been at and went on as assistant
[58:00.080 -> 58:06.720] manager to Oscar Garcia at that point. I had that those first few weeks or
[58:06.720 -> 58:09.320] the first of ten days when you go into France and you're in a different
[58:09.320 -> 58:13.720] environment, different culture, thinking maybe this wasn't the best idea coming
[58:13.720 -> 58:17.160] to France and doing this but then you sort of force yourself to think now come
[58:17.160 -> 58:24.320] on it's Ligue 1, it's top five leagues in the world, good players, decent money, come
[58:24.320 -> 58:25.280] on push through it. Back in Preston again. Back in Preston, good players, decent money, come on, push through it.
[58:25.280 -> 58:26.880] Back in Preston again?
[58:26.880 -> 58:32.160] Back in Preston, same feeling. You're sat in a flat all on your own, all your mates
[58:32.160 -> 58:37.960] are a thousand kilometres north. It's like, no, come on, do it, do it, do it, do it. Only
[58:37.960 -> 58:45.700] thing is I'm on my UEFA A licence at that point, or finishing it in Belgium so it's going back and forth to
[58:45.700 -> 58:50.320] Belgium twice a week which is difficult and then I sort of thought to myself
[58:50.320 -> 58:54.300] right either I've just got to push through and do my best to get these
[58:54.300 -> 58:59.900] courses and the weird thing is is that about a week later Vincent Company
[58:59.900 -> 59:04.720] brings me up and to me you know Vincent Company is like a big thing and he said
[59:04.720 -> 59:05.040] oh well you know come be my assistant a big thing and he said oh well
[59:05.040 -> 59:09.920] you know come be my assistant at Anderlecht because Craig Padamies just left.
[59:09.920 -> 59:14.480] Yeah great but how am I gonna get out of Stade de Reims you know because
[59:14.480 -> 59:19.160] I enjoyed I really enjoyed the time that I had there but it was difficult
[59:19.160 -> 59:24.720] with the UEFA courses and it was like you know perfect match I can be
[59:24.720 -> 59:25.360] back in Belgium
[59:25.360 -> 59:30.960] finish my coaching badges off work for one of the biggest clubs in Belgium and work for Vinnie
[59:30.960 -> 59:35.280] company you know it doesn't get much better than that. So told Raas about it they weren't best
[59:35.280 -> 59:48.320] pleased but they agreed in the end found an agreement with Anderlecht and then had a very honest conversation with with Vinnie of Vinnie what do you
[59:48.320 -> 59:52.440] want me to be doing? What is Will still gonna bring to Vincent company?
[59:52.440 -> 59:55.640] Are you doing this after you've had these difficult conversations with the club and
[59:55.640 -> 59:59.760] you got the agreement? Yeah, drive up to Undelect, go around the
[59:59.760 -> 01:00:04.160] training complex, almost sign a piece of paper and then you know see Vinnie and
[01:00:04.160 -> 01:00:08.840] it's like Vinnie what am I doing? And I just couldn't see myself working in that
[01:00:08.840 -> 01:00:14.600] structure in that environment because it was Vincent Company's environment and I
[01:00:14.600 -> 01:00:20.880] have the utmost respect for you know Vinnie Company's regime and his
[01:00:20.880 -> 01:00:25.100] structure and his work but I couldn't see myself working in it and so
[01:00:25.100 -> 01:00:29.120] I turn around and sort of think I don't want to work with Vinnie Company and not
[01:00:29.120 -> 01:00:31.640] it's not I don't want to work for Vincent Company because I love Vince
[01:00:31.640 -> 01:00:37.580] Company it's I'm not going to bring what he's expecting me to bring in that
[01:00:37.580 -> 01:00:42.520] environment I'm gonna be totally useless at doing what he's asking me to do but
[01:00:42.520 -> 01:00:50.120] how am I gonna tell him that? Pluck up the balls, ring him up, Vinnie I think I made a bad choice. Oh right okay well well
[01:00:50.120 -> 01:00:55.320] that's fine thanks for your honesty I'm sure we'll you know talk again speak
[01:00:55.320 -> 01:01:00.640] again whatever all the best. That's it? Yeah. Oh shit that was easy. He said well
[01:01:00.640 -> 01:01:04.640] this is this is the plan this is what I want you to do what I expect you to do
[01:01:04.640 -> 01:01:05.120] and if you're telling me that you don't feel up for that then thanks for telling He said, well this is this is the plan. This is what I want you to do what I expect you to do
[01:01:07.800 -> 01:01:09.000] and if you're telling me that you don't feel up for that then
[01:01:10.800 -> 01:01:14.920] Thanks for telling me Great, right. Cheers Vinnie. Yeah, no problem. We'll see you later
[01:01:15.320 -> 01:01:19.240] So what's your conversation about like in France now? Because that's a more difficult one.
[01:01:19.240 -> 01:01:23.060] As I'm driving home, Standard Liège ring me up and say
[01:01:23.820 -> 01:01:26.060] Well, we just fired a coach we want
[01:01:26.060 -> 01:01:29.660] someone new and we don't want you to go to Anderlecht. I'd worked for Standard Liège
[01:01:29.660 -> 01:01:35.300] in the past. It's like hang on hang on what? Yeah yeah we've just sat the coach
[01:01:35.300 -> 01:01:39.940] we want you to come in here and you know be coach. I was at Anderlecht three
[01:01:39.940 -> 01:01:42.620] minutes ago yeah yeah we know but we don't want you to go there so we're
[01:01:42.620 -> 01:01:47.500] offering you a job here in Liège. I'll drive down now so I drove down the
[01:01:47.500 -> 01:01:52.220] same day to Liège I had a conversation with the board well this is what you can
[01:01:52.220 -> 01:01:57.100] do this is what we want you to do and there I felt oh this is the role I want
[01:01:57.100 -> 01:02:02.180] to have this is what I want to be doing and working with a decent coach so that
[01:02:02.180 -> 01:02:05.040] was the right
[01:02:08.760 -> 01:02:10.280] environment, right energy for me at that point in my career. So I signed again for Standard Liège,
[01:02:10.280 -> 01:02:12.680] finished the season off there with them.
[01:02:12.680 -> 01:02:14.520] And at the end of last season,
[01:02:14.520 -> 01:02:16.480] the head coach, Oscar Garcia, back in house,
[01:02:16.480 -> 01:02:19.340] rang me back, said, right, Will, you finished your licenses,
[01:02:19.340 -> 01:02:21.540] you finished all your rubbish off.
[01:02:21.540 -> 01:02:23.040] Yeah, I'm all good.
[01:02:23.040 -> 01:02:25.280] Right, well, you're coming back, okay.
[01:02:25.280 -> 01:02:30.720] The club agree? Don't know, don't care, I'll convince them, okay right.
[01:02:30.720 -> 01:02:34.880] Next day Mathieu Lacour brings me back, said right well coach wants you back.
[01:02:34.880 -> 01:02:37.160] We're not best pleased with it but...
[01:02:37.160 -> 01:02:39.160] I was going to say was there any bitterness there?
[01:02:39.160 -> 01:02:41.160] Yeah a lot, huge amount, yeah.
[01:02:41.160 -> 01:02:45.260] And I had a contract that I had the first time was better
[01:02:45.260 -> 01:02:49.900] than the one I had at the start of this season. Oh no. So it was like... Why didn't you just
[01:02:49.900 -> 01:02:55.580] stay at Liège? Didn't feel right the club had been bought by American owners. So
[01:02:55.580 -> 01:03:00.820] again that feel is... Yeah it just wasn't right it was like nah not the right
[01:03:00.820 -> 01:03:04.900] environment. But you're going from head coach there to assistant of Stade de Reims yeah?
[01:03:04.900 -> 01:03:05.780] Yeah. Like have you reached a point now where you're going from head coach there to assistant That's that the huh? Yeah. Yeah
[01:03:06.180 -> 01:03:12.120] But have you reached a point now where you're a manager and you never go and be an assistant anywhere again now?
[01:03:12.340 -> 01:03:16.980] Probably yes. Yeah, but at this point your ego was still not so big that you were happy to step down
[01:03:16.980 -> 01:03:18.980] No, and I don't think it's
[01:03:19.680 -> 01:03:22.640] Yeah, I'm not quite sure. It's ego driven. I think it's just I
[01:03:23.160 -> 01:03:27.680] Have my ideas and I I think that this is the best way to play the game
[01:03:27.680 -> 01:03:31.080] or this could be the right environment for me and then
[01:03:31.080 -> 01:03:33.800] if I'm going to work for someone then I want it to be
[01:03:33.800 -> 01:03:37.320] you know something that I've never seen before and the very best
[01:03:37.320 -> 01:03:42.560] that I can learn from, like Vincent Company or Pep Guardiola or whatever
[01:03:42.560 -> 01:03:45.440] and so it's like at that point, no great,
[01:03:45.440 -> 01:03:47.100] I enjoyed the house, I liked the league,
[01:03:47.100 -> 01:03:49.560] I liked the club, I felt good there.
[01:03:50.580 -> 01:03:52.220] I'm not gonna have to be going back and forth
[01:03:52.220 -> 01:03:53.960] the whole time to do my licenses,
[01:03:53.960 -> 01:03:57.660] so yeah, let's give it a shot.
[01:03:57.660 -> 01:04:00.260] So I signed back for the club, start pre-season,
[01:04:00.260 -> 01:04:02.860] we're doing okay, we didn't have the best start
[01:04:02.860 -> 01:04:06.520] to the season, but I think the most challenging thing was
[01:04:06.520 -> 01:04:09.320] Oscar Garcia was going through
[01:04:09.800 -> 01:04:12.320] I don't even know how to explain it
[01:04:12.320 -> 01:04:16.120] his daughter was basically dying with brain cancer
[01:04:16.420 -> 01:04:17.800] and so he's never there
[01:04:18.420 -> 01:04:20.860] or very rarely there and if he's there
[01:04:21.260 -> 01:04:24.320] there's a whole sort of energy around him that is
[01:04:24.320 -> 01:04:25.960] really really
[01:04:25.960 -> 01:04:29.760] difficult. Which is fully understandable. Totally understandable and you know we
[01:04:29.760 -> 01:04:33.600] never it was never a conversation it was like you know if he's not here then it's
[01:04:33.600 -> 01:04:38.600] normal. We're not winning games we're I think we were 18th in the league and
[01:04:38.600 -> 01:04:42.480] last season there were you know four teams that went down in the league so it
[01:04:42.480 -> 01:04:48.160] was it was difficult and the club you know turned around halfway through October or start of
[01:04:48.160 -> 01:04:53.040] October and say you know Oscar we totally understand the situation but we
[01:04:53.040 -> 01:04:58.400] have a club to run we have a club to you know make live which was badly very badly
[01:04:58.400 -> 01:05:06.240] perceived by the French press somewhere understandably but you know wherever you're at in your life right
[01:05:06.240 -> 01:05:11.000] now isn't helping us and we can't, we've got to go different ways. So they
[01:05:11.000 -> 01:05:18.400] sack Oscar and I actually had a clause in my contract with Hans that said
[01:05:18.400 -> 01:05:22.120] if they fire Oscar they can fire me because Oscar was the one that brought
[01:05:22.120 -> 01:05:27.320] me back to the club and I was quite happy you know, I was like okay great. They ring me up and say right
[01:05:27.320 -> 01:05:31.240] Will we fired Oscar and I was expecting them to say right you know you've got to
[01:05:31.240 -> 01:05:35.440] go too. And you were okay with that? I knew it because Oscar was the person
[01:05:35.440 -> 01:05:40.680] that brought me back to the club and I was like well okay you know I get it
[01:05:40.680 -> 01:05:44.200] you know we're not we're not doing very well in the league and okay you know
[01:05:44.200 -> 01:05:45.200] what we're doing next? Yeah you're not leaving, you know, we're not doing very well in the league and okay, you know, what am I doing next?
[01:05:45.200 -> 01:05:48.200] Yeah, you're not leaving, you're taking over.
[01:05:48.200 -> 01:05:54.200] But what intrigues me on this is that you've just described that you've had that sense of bitterness
[01:05:54.200 -> 01:05:56.200] that you'd left them to go back to Belgium.
[01:05:56.200 -> 01:06:01.200] They've accepted you back in reluctantly because the coach is doing that.
[01:06:01.200 -> 01:06:10.080] I'm interested in the relationship and what's happened or evolved in that time that they're now trusting you. I think from the start they
[01:06:10.080 -> 01:06:14.400] really liked me as a coach and as a person and they were running a business
[01:06:14.400 -> 01:06:18.700] you know they're running their business they're running a football club and so
[01:06:18.700 -> 01:06:23.320] they they sort of set that emotional human aspect of me going back to Belgium
[01:06:23.320 -> 01:06:26.480] totally aside I forgot about it and it was like, no, no, shut up.
[01:06:26.480 -> 01:06:30.560] This is a business, you can't do that. And when I went back, I was just normal.
[01:06:30.560 -> 01:06:34.080] I was like, you know, I know you're annoyed and I know I had the conversation
[01:06:34.080 -> 01:06:36.320] with him to break the ice a bit. It was like, I know
[01:06:36.320 -> 01:06:39.760] you're pissed off, I know, you know, what I'd done was a bit against
[01:06:39.760 -> 01:06:44.480] sort of moral ethics and whatever, but that's what I needed to do. And I said to
[01:06:44.480 -> 01:06:50.680] them, well hang on, because what if I want to be loyal towards Oscar and the second
[01:06:50.680 -> 01:06:55.120] clause in my contract was I had to pay a huge amount to get out of my contract
[01:06:55.120 -> 01:06:58.200] because basically they wanted to avoid another club coming to pick me up I was
[01:06:58.200 -> 01:07:02.720] like well I can't pay that I ain't got that money you know well no we know that
[01:07:02.720 -> 01:07:07.280] that's why we know you're not gonna go so that's why we want to make you head coach
[01:07:07.280 -> 01:07:14.960] so I haven't really got a choice well you know one of those. He's a bad bloke. And it was that right
[01:07:14.960 -> 01:07:24.240] okay felt terrible really really seriously bad towards Oscar and still do
[01:07:24.240 -> 01:07:26.080] he's never spoken to me again.
[01:07:26.080 -> 01:07:31.240] Really? Yeah. Have you tried to reach out? A few times yeah and his daughter died
[01:07:31.240 -> 01:07:34.640] you know a few months later. Yeah and does he see what you did as a betrayal?
[01:07:34.640 -> 01:07:39.000] Yeah I think so which I get I totally understand because I think I probably
[01:07:39.000 -> 01:07:42.680] would have thought the same. Sure. But I you know literally didn't have a choice
[01:07:42.680 -> 01:07:47.000] it was like well either you're paying more than six hundred thousand pounds to get yourself out the
[01:07:47.000 -> 01:07:52.120] club but the club aren't sacking me so I can't leave and I can't try and be loyal
[01:07:52.120 -> 01:07:56.720] to you but again he was in a in a space and whatever where which was difficult
[01:07:56.720 -> 01:08:01.280] so and I had to win a game of football at the weekend and it was like well
[01:08:01.280 -> 01:08:06.800] you're only paying PSG so you know whatever and yeah never
[01:08:06.800 -> 01:08:09.600] really looked back never really thought about it twice. Was that the nil-nil draw
[01:08:09.600 -> 01:08:16.000] with PSG? Yeah at home. How good did that feel stopping them from scoring? It lasted
[01:08:16.000 -> 01:08:21.840] about 20 minutes. I've got all these cameras around me on the pitch and you
[01:08:21.840 -> 01:08:28.440] know you're going around the stadium thanking the supporters because we always do that. It's like right okay we've got a nil-nil
[01:08:28.440 -> 01:08:34.280] draw yeah we're playing away to Lognon next week now what? It literally lasts
[01:08:34.280 -> 01:08:37.960] like that much. And everyone after the game is like
[01:08:37.960 -> 01:08:40.720] oh you know whatever this is brilliant this is this this is that
[01:08:40.720 -> 01:08:46.720] congratulations huge yeah thanks right leave me alone now I've got
[01:08:46.720 -> 01:08:53.580] to do something else and it always lasts, yeah, nothing, literally nothing and you go
[01:08:53.580 -> 01:08:58.600] on to the next game and at the start the club had said right well you've got, I think it
[01:08:58.600 -> 01:09:03.280] was five games till the World Cup, so take charge for the five games and then we'll see
[01:09:03.280 -> 01:09:08.280] where we're at, we'll see where we're going. We go on beating in the five games, I think it's two or three
[01:09:08.280 -> 01:09:11.800] games we win, anyway we're on beating in the five games. Comes the World Cup, the
[01:09:11.800 -> 01:09:14.940] players are all saying no no Will you're staying, you're staying, you know we want
[01:09:14.940 -> 01:09:19.300] to keep going with you, okay well I'm not gonna decide so you know we'll see. The
[01:09:19.300 -> 01:09:23.760] board turn around and say right well you know good job well done, you've turned
[01:09:23.760 -> 01:09:29.480] the energy around, you've turned the team around around keep going to the end of the season and then the
[01:09:29.480 -> 01:09:34.200] club turn around and say we'll renegotiate your contract Will, it's like okay just know
[01:09:34.200 -> 01:09:38.440] that we're paying 25k a game for you to be on the touchline because you haven't
[01:09:38.440 -> 01:09:42.320] got your pro license yet so if we play four games in a month yeah that's a lot
[01:09:42.320 -> 01:09:45.440] of money yeah it's basically a million pounds a year for you to manage the football club.
[01:09:45.440 -> 01:09:47.440] Something like that.
[01:09:47.440 -> 01:09:49.440] I didn't want it though to be honest.
[01:09:49.440 -> 01:09:51.440] But it's money that can't go elsewhere isn't it?
[01:09:51.440 -> 01:09:53.440] That's the point there mate.
[01:09:53.440 -> 01:09:56.640] And I was like, yeah, wow, thanks.
[01:09:56.640 -> 01:09:58.640] Great opportunity, thank you.
[01:09:58.640 -> 01:10:02.640] And I think my salary leaked out into the press
[01:10:02.640 -> 01:10:04.640] halfway through February or something.
[01:10:04.640 -> 01:10:05.680] And every manager's salary was in the press halfway through February or something and every
[01:10:05.680 -> 01:10:10.480] manager's salary was in the press halfway through February in Leekiep and
[01:10:10.480 -> 01:10:13.840] people were taking the piss because I was earning nothing basically.
[01:10:13.840 -> 01:10:17.840] We've spoken about your relationship with the cameras and the scrutiny and
[01:10:17.840 -> 01:10:23.080] that horrible experience when you were 24. What have you learned at this stage
[01:10:23.080 -> 01:10:29.880] then, now that you're the head coach and things like this have been leaked out that then present that you're
[01:10:29.880 -> 01:10:34.200] some guy that got lucky and that's why they're not paying you anything. How are you
[01:10:34.200 -> 01:10:38.480] managing that? What lessons have you learned?
[01:10:38.480 -> 01:10:46.080] Ignore it. Not bothered. It affects me in a... without it actually affecting me.
[01:10:46.080 -> 01:10:53.840] And what I've tried to turn around is, well hang on, let them try and understand who Will is.
[01:10:54.880 -> 01:10:59.840] Open the door. There was actually a thing that went out on social media where I'm talking French
[01:10:59.840 -> 01:11:06.260] and English, talking to the squad, and you know people absolutely love that but I
[01:11:06.260 -> 01:11:11.740] know that the same video fragment I would have got slated for it eight years
[01:11:11.740 -> 01:11:16.200] ago when I was doing it at Back of the Other Club. So perception has changed
[01:11:16.200 -> 01:11:21.480] and people see me in a different way and it's like right well this is me I'm not
[01:11:21.480 -> 01:11:28.760] perfect I'm big I'm ginger you know I talk funny in both languages but this is who I am so if you want to have a go at me you're
[01:11:28.760 -> 01:11:32.720] not gonna knock me down that far and I know you know I lose five games and
[01:11:32.720 -> 01:11:37.960] people say people start saying how shit I am yeah that's football I know I'm not
[01:11:37.960 -> 01:11:42.480] shit and I know I'm not very good I'm just where I am at the moment that's
[01:11:42.480 -> 01:11:45.580] fine and I'm expecting it
[01:11:45.580 -> 01:11:49.840] it's gonna happen someday. We're about to do our quickfire questions but before we
[01:11:49.840 -> 01:11:54.100] do in the spirit of honesty and you know so I think many managers would kind of
[01:11:54.100 -> 01:11:57.500] sidestep this and just give the old I'm happy where I am one day at a time one
[01:11:57.500 -> 01:12:03.300] game at a time how ambitious are you? Oh massively massively because I've grown
[01:12:03.300 -> 01:12:08.880] up again in that environment of watching the Premier League and I've, you know, we used to win the World Cup on
[01:12:08.880 -> 01:12:14.800] FIFA with my brother, it's like, I'll tell you what, I want to win the World Cup. But I know that I'm nowhere near the
[01:12:14.800 -> 01:12:19.680] Premier League and I'm nowhere near the World Cup right now. But that's okay in
[01:12:19.680 -> 01:12:23.600] a way because I'm 30 and I've got a bit of time and a bit of, you know, I've got a few
[01:12:23.600 -> 01:12:27.320] things to do before I get there and it, know it makes me laugh when people ask me I will
[01:12:27.320 -> 01:12:29.800] you've got to come to England would you come to England what do you think about
[01:12:29.800 -> 01:12:33.920] England it was like well yeah obviously you know obviously you're better than
[01:12:33.920 -> 01:12:38.000] everyone loves England everyone everyone wants to work in England and I'm
[01:12:38.000 -> 01:12:41.560] no different and you know just being here for a few days it does feel like
[01:12:41.560 -> 01:12:46.400] almost like home now because I can sort of find my
[01:12:46.400 -> 01:12:51.520] roots and this is my parents grew up here and somewhere down the
[01:12:51.520 -> 01:12:56.640] line I do feel English. So do you plan? Not at all because if someone has
[01:12:56.640 -> 01:13:01.480] asked me to plan what I've just done in the last 10 years I would have told them
[01:13:01.480 -> 01:13:07.000] to do one you know it's like who would have said that I was going to be a coach at 24?
[01:13:07.000 -> 01:13:12.000] Who's going to say I was going to be a coach at 28 and then managing a league out at 30?
[01:13:12.000 -> 01:13:18.000] It shouldn't happen, doesn't happen, and I've no idea what whatever's going to happen in the future.
[01:13:18.000 -> 01:13:20.000] It doesn't worry me that much.
[01:13:20.000 -> 01:13:24.000] If it happens, then great. If it doesn't happen, then I'm sure there'll be something else.
[01:13:24.000 -> 01:13:28.800] I'm sure I'll find something else and I'm sure you know I'll find something else where I feel all right somewhere else. Again it won't stop me
[01:13:28.800 -> 01:13:34.800] being ambitious and it won't stop me creating that high performance environment to win games
[01:13:34.800 -> 01:13:40.560] of football because you know every person in the world says they hate losing games
[01:13:42.080 -> 01:13:46.240] but I actually feel proper proper shit when I've lost the game and
[01:13:46.240 -> 01:13:49.600] I hate it I hate that feeling of walking out and having to talk to the press and
[01:13:49.600 -> 01:13:54.240] and seeing the players you know spend three minutes being sad and then get on
[01:13:54.240 -> 01:13:58.160] the phone and having to go through that whole week of knowing you've lost the
[01:13:58.160 -> 01:14:01.600] game and people are judging you because you lost the game and it's like I hate
[01:14:01.600 -> 01:14:08.520] that feeling I hate it so I don't want to go through that ever or as less as possible. I bet. Right we've reached the point for
[01:14:08.520 -> 01:14:12.640] our quickfire questions. So the first one is the three non-negotiable behaviors
[01:14:12.640 -> 01:14:19.440] that you and the people around you need to buy into. Enjoy it, number one. What
[01:14:19.440 -> 01:14:26.420] better feeling is there than like I said walking out on a football pitch with the grass is
[01:14:26.420 -> 01:14:30.080] perfect, your kit's perfect, you know you've got 20,000 people scanning,
[01:14:30.080 -> 01:14:34.600] screaming your name, how could you not enjoy that? Enjoy the game of football,
[01:14:34.600 -> 01:14:41.300] that's number one. Number two, commitment. Okay if you're gonna be part of our
[01:14:41.300 -> 01:14:46.960] squad and you're gonna be part of our team, you've gotta go full for that team.
[01:14:46.960 -> 01:14:49.440] You know, and I'll allow your ego
[01:14:49.440 -> 01:14:51.040] to be as big as it needs to be,
[01:14:51.040 -> 01:14:53.400] and I'll allow your personality
[01:14:53.400 -> 01:14:55.480] to be as important as it has to be,
[01:14:55.480 -> 01:14:56.560] and I think the best example of that
[01:14:56.560 -> 01:14:58.840] is Balogun that we had this year.
[01:14:58.840 -> 01:15:01.160] It was like, Balog, I know how you feel coming to France,
[01:15:01.160 -> 01:15:03.460] I know how you feel in this environment.
[01:15:04.920 -> 01:15:05.460] Just be Balog, that's fine. Okay, well, I know how you feel in this environment, just be Balot,
[01:15:05.460 -> 01:15:10.400] that's fine, okay well I'll do that. So commitment to the team and Balot then
[01:15:10.400 -> 01:15:15.000] understood that yes he wanted to score goals but he was going to need you know
[01:15:15.000 -> 01:15:20.040] the 23 other people beside him to be as good as that and so it's creating
[01:15:20.040 -> 01:15:23.280] that sort of again environment where people can be themselves but realise
[01:15:23.280 -> 01:15:27.100] that there is a common goal and that common goal is only going to work if if
[01:15:27.100 -> 01:15:31.300] everyone's committed to it. Commitment is number two and number three I know again
[01:15:31.300 -> 01:15:37.400] very sort of fairy tale like and romantic but honesty if you think
[01:15:37.400 -> 01:15:41.220] something's shit and if you think I'm chatting shit tell me it's crap be
[01:15:41.220 -> 01:15:48.080] straightforward if you think I've made a mistake come and tell me because I'm gonna tell you if you've made a mistake and a lot of people say yeah it's crap. Be straightforward. If you think I've made a mistake, come and tell me because I'm gonna tell you if you've made a mistake. And a lot of people say
[01:15:48.080 -> 01:15:51.880] yeah it's dangerous you know being so close to your players and having that
[01:15:51.880 -> 01:15:56.000] relationship with your players but that's just who I am and if they're
[01:15:56.000 -> 01:15:59.960] gonna accept that I'm telling them that it's bad I need to be able to accept
[01:15:59.960 -> 01:16:04.680] that they're coming back at me with something and we find a you know a level
[01:16:04.680 -> 01:16:09.280] playing field where everyone can can sort of agree but also be honest sort of
[01:16:09.280 -> 01:16:13.720] between ourselves but towards yourself because a footballer's automatic
[01:16:13.720 -> 01:16:16.960] reaction is when you say something's bad you say yeah but this and he was poor
[01:16:16.960 -> 01:16:20.360] and he was this and he was that and he was doing this and well the you know the
[01:16:20.360 -> 01:16:29.160] grass was a bit wet and this was it yeah shut up about the excuses let's have a look at the video were you being bad well yeah I wasn't great okay
[01:16:29.160 -> 01:16:33.680] now we're getting somewhere where we can have a conversation where we can make a
[01:16:33.680 -> 01:16:37.840] bit of progress and have that difficult conversation which in the end as we said
[01:16:37.840 -> 01:16:41.240] isn't actually that difficult it seems you know like a mountain to climb but it
[01:16:41.240 -> 01:16:48.920] isn't actually that hard once you've said the first word. What's one piece of advice you give to a teenage Will just starting out?
[01:16:48.920 -> 01:16:53.740] Don't believe in the people that say it's not possible. Do whatever it takes
[01:16:53.740 -> 01:16:58.600] just keep going don't give up. If that's really what you want to do and that's
[01:16:58.600 -> 01:17:02.560] really the place you want to get to just do it. I know it's difficult I know
[01:17:02.560 -> 01:17:08.960] there are gonna be you know 10 days, 2 to 3 weeks that are tough but you know if you've got one thing that
[01:17:08.960 -> 01:17:13.040] you want to do, do it. Identifying it is also difficult because what do people
[01:17:13.040 -> 01:17:16.640] really want to do in life? You know so many people go through a job and do a
[01:17:16.640 -> 01:17:21.480] job that they don't really enjoy. I'd hate to do that. It's like no well if
[01:17:21.480 -> 01:17:25.500] you've got a job enjoy it. Do what you really want to do.
[01:17:25.500 -> 01:17:30.480] And that comes back to the conversation I had with my dad, is like, do whatever you
[01:17:30.480 -> 01:17:35.400] want to do and do something that's going to make a difference to your life and make you
[01:17:35.400 -> 01:17:36.400] enjoy your life.
[01:17:36.400 -> 01:17:37.400] Very good.
[01:17:37.400 -> 01:17:40.880] If you could recommend a book for our, do you read?
[01:17:40.880 -> 01:17:44.360] I don't read at all, but there's an explanation to that.
[01:17:44.360 -> 01:17:49.640] Go on then. I don't read at all, but there's an explanation to that. Come on then. I can't read, I mean I can like read ABC, but if I read a page of a
[01:17:49.640 -> 01:17:52.640] book, by the end of the page I'd have forgotten exactly what I've just read
[01:17:52.640 -> 01:17:56.280] because like my brain just doesn't process it. So what sort of learner are
[01:17:56.280 -> 01:18:00.040] you then? You're a visual learner. Right, okay. If I see a video, if I hear it, if
[01:18:00.040 -> 01:18:04.320] someone talks about it to me, that's fine I can see it. But if I've got to read
[01:18:04.320 -> 01:18:07.880] something or read a book or read a something it's like well forget it.
[01:18:07.880 -> 01:18:11.280] If you could go back to one moment of your life what would it be and why?
[01:18:11.280 -> 01:18:17.080] Winning the title with STVV, the very first club I worked for at the end of
[01:18:17.080 -> 01:18:23.880] that season where I had nothing because that was proof to myself that it was
[01:18:23.880 -> 01:18:26.000] possible and I remember standing on
[01:18:26.000 -> 01:18:28.560] the podium in front of all the supporters in the club that I'd played
[01:18:28.560 -> 01:18:33.200] for as a kid it was like what is this you know I'm part of a club that I've
[01:18:33.200 -> 01:18:37.960] just won the league with I think I've contributed a bit to what the team did
[01:18:37.960 -> 01:18:43.880] and through all the not getting paid and not being you know whatever I've won
[01:18:43.880 -> 01:18:49.720] this title and I've helped these people lift the trophy and be the best team in the league and
[01:18:49.720 -> 01:18:53.440] the fact of it being you know that club at that particular point in my life was
[01:18:53.440 -> 01:18:56.720] a it's the best feeling in the world and it comes back to winning you know you win
[01:18:56.720 -> 01:19:01.160] something that feeling is just like wow. And the last question your one golden
[01:19:01.160 -> 01:19:05.280] rule for people that have listened to this conversation, for them to live their own high-performance life.
[01:19:06.080 -> 01:19:08.480] Set yourself a goal and go for it and
[01:19:09.280 -> 01:19:14.880] just believe that, you know, it is possible. That's the perfect way to end and thank you very much for
[01:19:15.680 -> 01:19:20.120] sharing your thoughts on all that with us. Honestly, it's been really interesting. Thanks for having me.
[01:19:33.340 -> 01:19:39.720] Damien, Jake, you know what and I want this to come across as in the I want you to take this in the spirit in which is intended that was like having a chat with a mate who really
[01:19:39.720 -> 01:19:44.520] likes football but has never worked in football a day in his life and I don't want that to
[01:19:44.520 -> 01:19:46.640] do you know what I mean like Like you could take that as offensive
[01:19:46.640 -> 01:19:50.720] and go wow, but actually it's the total opposite of offensive it's almost the
[01:19:50.720 -> 01:19:54.340] greatest compliment you can pay to someone who works in the game but has
[01:19:54.340 -> 01:20:00.120] not been jaded, twisted, altered, impacted by working in the game.
[01:20:00.120 -> 01:20:04.800] Yeah, it's a really interesting point. Halfway through I was reminded of a
[01:20:04.800 -> 01:20:06.800] famous quote I'd read about Bobby Robson,
[01:20:06.800 -> 01:20:10.200] where people used to talk about, even in his last job at Newcastle,
[01:20:10.280 -> 01:20:14.760] it was his sheer joy and passion of being out on a football field with a ball,
[01:20:15.480 -> 01:20:20.000] and with footballers to play with. And people always used to talk about it.
[01:20:20.000 -> 01:20:28.840] It was almost like boyish in his enthusiasm that he'd never it and listening to Will Laird talking about how I'd pay to do this job, it's such a
[01:20:28.840 -> 01:20:32.960] pleasure. I think it's lovely to hear somebody with that undiluted and let's
[01:20:32.960 -> 01:20:37.680] say unblemished passion for something. And I hate how football, and football by
[01:20:37.680 -> 01:20:42.920] the way is not alone in this, how football discriminates against outliers.
[01:20:42.920 -> 01:20:46.280] All sport does, the whole world does, every
[01:20:46.280 -> 01:20:50.160] industry does, and yet this is a guy who by his own admission is an outlier. He's
[01:20:50.160 -> 01:20:52.520] coming at it from a totally different angle to everybody else. That's why
[01:20:52.520 -> 01:20:57.080] everyone's obsessed with this rather dull conversation around, you know, playing
[01:20:57.080 -> 01:21:03.080] football manager on the computer. But he's coming at it as an outlier and he
[01:21:03.080 -> 01:21:08.360] shows that you can do that and I think football, all sports, our
[01:21:08.360 -> 01:21:12.560] entire environment needs to wake up to this cognitive diversity, this difference
[01:21:12.560 -> 01:21:17.200] of thought, this alternative opinion. Like he brings so much more value to the game
[01:21:17.200 -> 01:21:20.360] of football than just managing the club he's managing. He makes people look
[01:21:20.360 -> 01:21:27.840] at the game in a different way. Yeah, it was a real privilege just to speak to somebody that, like you say, has done the work in the shadows.
[01:21:27.840 -> 01:21:33.680] That's what we often talk about here, how we respect those that have gone and learnt the craft from the bottom up.
[01:21:33.860 -> 01:21:40.820] He's definitely done that and I don't think we've even seen a fraction of what his potential could be.
[01:21:40.820 -> 01:21:43.720] I'm excited for him and I hope he stays exactly the same.
[01:21:43.720 -> 01:21:48.880] Yeah, me too. I think he will. Yeah, thanks mate. Thank you mate.
[01:21:48.880 -> 01:21:52.300] Well I'd really love to know what you thought of this conversation with Will
[01:21:52.300 -> 01:21:56.200] Still. Please reach out on socials, let us know what you think. I love hearing from
[01:21:56.200 -> 01:22:00.820] you. It also really helps us if you can subscribe either here where you get your
[01:22:00.820 -> 01:22:05.280] podcasts or on YouTube as well. Honestly, it's the single thing that
[01:22:05.280 -> 01:22:09.520] you can do that doesn't take much time and supports this podcast the most so that we
[01:22:09.520 -> 01:22:14.200] can continue to spread the learnings and the lessons from these incredible people. You
[01:22:14.200 -> 01:22:19.000] know, most people that listen to high performance don't subscribe to high performance. And if
[01:22:19.000 -> 01:22:23.320] you could do that for me, it would be a game changer for us. Listen, thank you so much
[01:22:23.320 -> 01:22:25.060] for tuning in for joining us today.
[01:22:25.060 -> 01:22:27.300] Don't forget you can download the High Performance app
[01:22:27.300 -> 01:22:29.180] for free, just head to the App Store
[01:22:29.180 -> 01:22:31.460] and use the code HPAPP.
[01:22:31.460 -> 01:22:34.620] Remember, there is no secret, it is all there for you.
[01:22:34.620 -> 01:22:36.460] So chase world-class basics,
[01:22:36.460 -> 01:22:38.500] don't get high on your own supply,
[01:22:38.500 -> 01:22:41.680] remain humble, curious, and empathetic,
[01:22:41.680 -> 01:22:44.340] all of which I believe Will still has done,
[01:22:44.340 -> 01:22:45.520] and we'll see you very soon.
[01:23:02.350 -> 01:23:04.410] you