E89 - Andrew Trimble: Understanding the art and science behind high performance

Andrew Trimble is a former Irish international rugby player turned entrepreneur and businessman. He won 229 caps for Ulster, and 70 caps for Ireland, winning the Six Nations and beating the All Blacks. 

Now instead of leading on the pitch, Andrew is producing software with Kairos as founder and CEO, that will give sporting clubs and players the chance to fulfil their potential with a digital planning platform to manage the complexities of elite sport. 

. . . . . . . 

Pre-order our audiobook ‘Lessons From the Best on Becoming Your Best’: https://adbl.co/3xQQSCF 

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**Navigating the Complexities of Elite Sport with Andrew Trimble**

**Introduction:**

This special bonus episode of the High Performance Podcast features Andrew Trimble, a former Irish international rugby player turned entrepreneur. Andrew shares his insights on achieving high performance, balancing individuality and teamwork, and transitioning from a successful sports career to the business world.

**Key Points:**

1. **High Performance and Single-mindedness:**
- Andrew defines high performance as single-mindedness and focus.
- He emphasizes the need to prioritize what you're good at and be willing to sacrifice other aspects of life to achieve success.
- Andrew acknowledges that this approach can be selfish but argues that it's necessary to excel at the highest level.

2. **Balancing Individuality and Team Success:**
- Andrew discusses the challenge of balancing personal success with team goals.
- He highlights the importance of having a supportive family and understanding that sacrifices are necessary to achieve team success.
- Andrew emphasizes the need to be selfish in pursuing your goals but also acknowledges the importance of being a team player.

3. **Transitioning from Sports to Business:**
- Andrew shares his experience transitioning from a successful rugby career to entrepreneurship.
- He emphasizes the importance of having a clear vision and a strong work ethic.
- Andrew also highlights the value of surrounding yourself with a supportive team and being willing to learn and adapt.

4. **Importance of Confidence and Execution:**
- Andrew discusses the role of confidence in achieving high performance.
- He explains how he developed confidence by focusing on his strengths and executing the basics well.
- Andrew emphasizes the importance of breaking down tasks into smaller, manageable steps and focusing on continuous improvement.

5. **The Power of Rational Thinking:**
- Andrew highlights the importance of rational thinking in building confidence.
- He explains how he used evidence and analysis to convince himself that he could perform well.
- Andrew emphasizes the need to focus on what you can control and to avoid putting unnecessary pressure on yourself.

**Conclusion:**

Andrew Trimble's journey from rugby player to entrepreneur is a testament to the power of hard work, dedication, and a clear vision. His insights on high performance, balancing individuality and teamwork, and transitioning to a new career are valuable lessons for anyone looking to achieve success in their chosen field.

**Summary of the Podcast Episode: High-Performance Culture, Communication, and Entrepreneurship with Andrew Trimble**

**Introduction:**

* Andrew Trimble, former Irish international rugby player, entrepreneur, and CEO of Kairos, joins the podcast to discuss his journey from the rugby pitch to the business world.
* Kairos is a software company that provides a digital planning platform for sports clubs and players to manage the complexities of elite sport.

**Key Points:**

1. **Creating a High-Performance Environment:**

* Joe Schmidt, former Irish rugby coach, emphasized the importance of small details in execution and creating an environment where players are accountable for their actions.
* Consistency and reliability in performance are essential for success.
* The focus on basic contributions to the game, such as footwork and leg drive, helped players raise their overall performance.
* Schmidt brought in creative plays that required every player to execute perfectly, fostering a sense of teamwork and confidence.
* Intense walkthroughs on Wednesday nights prepared players for Saturday matches, building confidence and eliminating excuses.

2. **The Significance of Joe Schmidt's Leadership:**

* Schmidt's workaholic nature and intimate knowledge of the game earned him respect and trust from players.
* His ability to identify individual player strengths and weaknesses allowed him to tailor his coaching approach to each athlete.
* Schmidt's confidence in his players' abilities instilled confidence in the players themselves.
* The game plan implemented by Schmidt was backed by the players, who believed in his strategies.
* Schmidt's rational and logical approach to dealing with setbacks and unexpected outcomes prevented emotional reactions.

3. **Communication and High Performance:**

* Clear and objective communication is crucial for high-performance environments.
* When a coach or leader communicates consistently and reliably, players are more likely to interpret and execute instructions accurately.
* Subjective communication can lead to misinterpretation and inconsistent execution.
* Establishing accountability for both the sender and receiver of communication is essential.

4. **The Transition from Professional Rugby to Entrepreneurship:**

* Trimble's successful transition from rugby to entrepreneurship was facilitated by his ability to focus on a new passion and develop new skills.
* He recognized the importance of building a strong network and support system outside of rugby.
* Trimble's experience as a rugby player helped him understand the needs of athletes and the challenges they face.
* He applied his dedication and single-mindedness from rugby to his entrepreneurial endeavors.

5. **Challenges of Starting a Business:**

* Convincing people to buy into a vision and maintain that vision despite customer demands that may compromise it.
* Balancing the operational aspects of running a business with the need for innovation and growth.
* Communicating clearly and effectively with business partners and employees to ensure alignment and accountability.

6. **Creating a No-Excuse Environment:**

* Kairos helps create a no-excuse environment in sports teams by providing clear and up-to-date information on schedules, appointments, and other operational details.
* Trust in the platform eliminates lazy questions from players and allows them to focus on their performance.

**Conclusion:**

* Trimble emphasizes the importance of clear communication, a strong work ethic, and a focus on continuous learning and improvement for both athletes and entrepreneurs striving for high performance.

**Navigating Challenges and Transitioning from Rugby to Business: Insights from Andrew Trimble**

Andrew Trimble, the former Irish rugby player turned entrepreneur, shared his journey from the rugby pitch to the business world, emphasizing the importance of accountability, perspective, and embracing new challenges.

**Key Themes:**

1. **Accountability and Personal Responsibility:**
- Trimble highlighted the significance of individual accountability and personal responsibility in both rugby and business.
- He emphasized the need for clear communication and setting expectations to eliminate excuses and foster a culture of ownership.
- According to Trimble, creating an environment where mistakes are not tolerated and individuals are held accountable enhances performance and team dynamics.

2. **Adaptability and Embracing New Challenges:**
- Trimble's transition from rugby to entrepreneurship exemplified his willingness to embrace new challenges and adapt to different environments.
- He recognized that his rugby career had an expiration date and proactively sought new opportunities in the business world.
- Trimble emphasized the importance of identifying one's strengths, seeking guidance from others, and being open to learning and growing in unfamiliar territories.

3. **Perspective and Legacy Building:**
- Trimble acknowledged the importance of maintaining a balanced perspective, valuing both personal and professional achievements.
- He prioritized spending time with family and friends, recognizing the significance of relationships beyond rugby or business.
- Trimble emphasized the importance of creating a legacy that extends beyond individual accomplishments, focusing on the impact on teammates and colleagues.

4. **Single-mindedness and Focus:**
- Trimble attributed his success in rugby and business to his single-minded focus and dedication.
- He emphasized the need to set clear goals, maintain unwavering determination, and persevere through challenges.
- Trimble acknowledged that this level of focus may require sacrifices in other areas of life, but it is essential for achieving success.

5. **Golden Rule for a High-Performance Life:**
- Trimble's golden rule for living a high-performance life is to maintain a positive perspective.
- He emphasized the importance of focusing on the things that matter, valuing relationships, and approaching life with enthusiasm and gratitude.
- According to Trimble, maintaining a positive outlook allows individuals to overcome challenges, embrace opportunities, and live fulfilling lives.

**Conclusion:**

Andrew Trimble's journey from rugby to business highlights the importance of accountability, adaptability, perspective, and single-minded focus. His experiences offer valuable lessons for individuals seeking success in their chosen fields, emphasizing the need to embrace challenges, maintain a balanced perspective, and strive for excellence in all aspects of life.

[00:00.000 -> 00:06.520] Hey there, you're listening to an extra special bonus episode of the high performance podcast.
[00:06.520 -> 00:09.920] This podcast is our gift to you for free.
[00:09.920 -> 00:14.780] Every single week, what we do is we turn the lived experience of the planet's highest performers
[00:14.780 -> 00:16.260] into your life lessons.
[00:16.260 -> 00:22.080] So allow the greatest leaders, thinkers, sports stars, entrepreneurs, and entertainers in
[00:22.080 -> 00:24.960] the world to be your teacher.
[00:24.960 -> 00:27.880] Today, this is what's in store.
[00:27.880 -> 00:31.880] The reason why I got an opportunity, the reason why I got on the radar for
[00:31.880 -> 00:36.120] selection in the early days when I was 19, 20 coming through for Ulster and for
[00:36.120 -> 00:41.520] Ireland is because I was good at the basics. Execution for me is carrying the
[00:41.520 -> 00:48.540] ball hard, using footwork, making good decisions with ball in hand, working hard in the backfield to cover kick options and chasing kicks and
[00:48.540 -> 00:49.860] getting in the air.
[00:49.860 -> 00:54.200] If you create an environment where there are no excuses, whether you draw everybody's attention
[00:54.200 -> 00:58.200] to that or not, everybody knows someone's let themselves down and let the team down
[00:58.200 -> 01:00.360] and that's a difficult environment to be in.
[01:00.360 -> 01:04.520] And if they've done it once and they've been embarrassed, they're not likely to do it again.
[01:04.520 -> 01:06.680] So I think that's how you create that accountability.
[01:06.680 -> 01:08.260] And I'm gonna execute my rule,
[01:08.260 -> 01:10.320] I'm relying on you to execute yours.
[01:10.320 -> 01:11.800] So as it's the Autumn Internationals,
[01:11.800 -> 01:13.000] we thought we'd bring you not one,
[01:13.000 -> 01:14.440] but two rugby players this week.
[01:14.440 -> 01:17.360] On Monday, we brought you Dan Carter, the All Blacks legend.
[01:17.360 -> 01:20.480] Today, we've got one of Irish rugby's greatest ever players,
[01:20.480 -> 01:24.000] Andrew Trimble, and he is a man who had incredible success
[01:24.000 -> 01:25.840] and then incredible lows as well
[01:25.840 -> 01:31.980] So he will share some deeply personal stuff and I really hope that it helps to take you to a place
[01:32.760 -> 01:36.400] Closer to high performance and he's much more than just a rugby player as well
[01:36.400 -> 01:38.180] He's now a businessman and we talk about that
[01:38.180 -> 01:41.400] So I really hope that you enjoy the conversation with Andrew Trimble today
[01:41.480 -> 01:43.880] Just a quick reminder that we have a book out
[01:43.880 -> 01:47.960] You can actually download the audiobook if you love podcasts and I'm sure audio books
[01:47.960 -> 01:49.000] are your kind of thing.
[01:49.000 -> 01:53.000] Just click the link in the description to this podcast and you can pre-order the audio
[01:53.000 -> 01:57.600] book right now and it will be in your ears on the 9th of December.
[01:57.600 -> 02:05.720] But for now, enjoy this extra special bonus episode of the High Performance Podcast.
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[05:10.000 -> 05:14.000] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes, vision one thing we really enjoy on this podcast is speaking to people who refuse to be put into a box, and they want to prove to the whole world that they're more than just a one-trick pony.
[05:14.000 -> 05:18.000] And ironically, we live in a world where we love to pigeonhole people and put them in a box.
[05:18.000 -> 05:21.000] And so credit to today's guest for refusing that.
[05:21.000 -> 05:26.000] Yeah, definitely, Jake. I think thatn credu bod hynny'n beth rwy'n mor cyffrous amdano.
[05:26.000 -> 05:28.000] Mae llinell o gyfathrebu yw
[05:28.000 -> 05:30.000] mae cyfathrebu gwych yn digwydd unwaith
[05:30.000 -> 05:32.000] pan ydych chi'n deall nad yw'r hyn sydd wedi'i ddweud,
[05:32.000 -> 05:33.000] ond yw'r hyn sydd wedi'i deall.
[05:33.000 -> 05:35.000] Ac rwy'n credu fy mod i'n ddiddorol iawn
[05:35.000 -> 05:37.000] i ddeall ychydig mwy o ran ein gwestiwn
[05:37.000 -> 05:38.000] a'i ffyrdd.
[05:38.000 -> 05:39.000] Iawn, gadewch i ni ei wneud.
[05:39.000 -> 05:40.000] Mae'n ein hysbrydol iawn heddiw
[05:40.000 -> 05:41.000] i siarad â dyn
[05:41.000 -> 05:42.000] sy'n byw dros y decyn
[05:42.000 -> 05:43.000] ar y pen-ddyn
[05:43.000 -> 05:44.000] o Rugby.
[05:44.000 -> 05:45.360] 70 cap arall i Ireland, y pwyslef record arall i Ulster, to speak to a man who spent over a decade at the pinnacle of rugby. 70 caps for Ireland,
[05:45.360 -> 05:50.880] the record appearance order for Ulster, yet he's now decided to get into business. He's the CEO
[05:50.880 -> 05:56.480] of sports tech startup Kyros. He even hosts his own podcast, Potholes and Penguins. I think he
[05:56.480 -> 06:03.440] might be a fan of penguins. We'll find out. But what lessons can he pass on to us about elite
[06:03.440 -> 06:05.880] cultures, both in sports and in business?
[06:05.880 -> 06:08.200] How did his deep Christian faith help him deal
[06:08.200 -> 06:10.920] with the mind boggling highs and the crushing lows
[06:10.920 -> 06:13.640] that he experienced as an elite sportsman?
[06:13.640 -> 06:16.280] What brave decisions did he take to pursue his path
[06:16.280 -> 06:17.760] as an entrepreneur?
[06:17.760 -> 06:18.680] We're going to find out.
[06:18.680 -> 06:21.280] Get ready for a revealing listen as we welcome
[06:21.280 -> 06:24.120] to the High Performance Podcast, Andrew Trimble.
[06:24.120 -> 06:24.960] Welcome, Andrew.
[06:24.960 -> 06:25.400] Hi, fellas.
[06:25.400 -> 06:26.680] Thanks very much for having me on.
[06:26.680 -> 06:30.440] I'm a big fan of the show, so it's great to be here.
[06:30.600 -> 06:31.360] Well, let's do it then.
[06:31.360 -> 06:33.600] And you will know what the first question is, won't you?
[06:33.600 -> 06:36.160] What is high performance?
[06:36.160 -> 06:41.360] So high performance for me, I suppose, is single mindedness.
[06:41.680 -> 06:44.560] My experience when I was playing rugby, it was very much that.
[06:44.560 -> 06:50.240] It was single mindedness and it was focus. And I heard Matthew McConaughey talking about selfishness
[06:50.240 -> 06:55.280] and I've reflected in a similar way in that sometimes high performance can be
[06:56.160 -> 07:01.680] understood from a positive perspective as focus and single-mindedness. But equally that's
[07:01.680 -> 07:05.080] selfishness and I think that's really interesting that he's come to the same conclusion
[07:05.080 -> 07:07.840] because that's perceived as a negative thing.
[07:07.840 -> 07:10.640] But really, if you're gonna be really good at one thing
[07:10.640 -> 07:12.280] and you and your teammates and your environment
[07:12.280 -> 07:14.560] are all gonna be driving towards the same thing
[07:14.560 -> 07:16.400] and be very good at achieving that,
[07:16.400 -> 07:18.280] you have to be bad at other things.
[07:18.280 -> 07:20.360] So you have to almost put them to one side.
[07:20.360 -> 07:22.520] So you have to be selfish and focus on those things.
[07:22.520 -> 07:24.600] So for me, that's something
[07:24.600 -> 07:29.480] that encapsulates high performance. So how do you balance then
[07:29.480 -> 07:33.160] the fact that in a rugby game the only thing that will get you to win the game
[07:33.160 -> 07:36.680] is the team? In business the only thing that will get you to be successful is
[07:36.680 -> 07:41.840] having a team around you. How do you balance success as a unit with
[07:41.840 -> 07:48.840] personal selfishness? I suppose, you know, my wife and my family
[07:48.840 -> 07:51.080] potentially took the brunt of that
[07:51.080 -> 07:53.040] and took very humbly, you know,
[07:53.040 -> 07:54.680] allowed me to be in a position
[07:54.680 -> 07:57.160] where I could prioritize what I wanted to do
[07:57.160 -> 07:59.400] and be as successful as I could be
[07:59.400 -> 08:01.240] and just be as good as I could be
[08:01.240 -> 08:04.000] in that environment, in sport anyway.
[08:04.000 -> 08:07.080] And, you know, there were times whenever I was away all weekend,
[08:07.080 -> 08:10.640] there were times whenever I just had to rest up on game day
[08:10.640 -> 08:12.720] and couldn't be as helpful with the kids.
[08:12.720 -> 08:15.440] There's times whenever I couldn't quite for dinner
[08:15.440 -> 08:18.120] with my wife or spend as much time as I wanted to with her
[08:18.120 -> 08:21.120] because I had to recover or nutrition was important
[08:21.120 -> 08:23.760] or it's just that focus and single-mindedness.
[08:23.760 -> 08:29.420] And I think a lot of people talk about that that typical conversation of the traits
[08:29.420 -> 08:33.440] and characteristics and the way you describe a high-performing athlete then
[08:33.440 -> 08:36.260] you can convert those into business and that I don't think that's always the
[08:36.260 -> 08:41.200] case because I think if you're very good at one thing you're inevitably you're
[08:41.200 -> 08:44.320] not gonna be well-rounded you're gonna be spiky you're gonna you're gonna have
[08:44.320 -> 08:46.000] to compromise in other areas of your life
[08:46.000 -> 08:50.240] You can't be as good at everything and I think whenever that's the case, you just have to acknowledge
[08:50.840 -> 08:52.120] This is what I'm focused on
[08:52.120 -> 08:57.600] This is what I'm good at and other things you have to be selfish and and let those let those go by the wayside
[08:57.720 -> 09:02.720] so there's a line that you use that on true about being well-rounded that has
[09:03.120 -> 09:08.800] Really intrigued me and I've had this debate with my wife about some of the interviews that we've done about how
[09:08.800 -> 09:13.680] well-rounded do you think you can be while still being a high performer?
[09:13.680 -> 09:18.580] Yeah I think I certainly think you can work on on weaknesses even from a
[09:18.580 -> 09:23.360] sporting perspective I find that if I worked on my weaknesses yes they got
[09:23.360 -> 09:26.060] better but it's really
[09:26.060 -> 09:29.320] really important not to forget the reason why I got an opportunity the
[09:29.320 -> 09:32.440] reason why I got on the radar for for selection in the early days when I was
[09:32.440 -> 09:37.340] 19-20 coming through for Ulster and for Ireland is because I was good at the
[09:37.340 -> 09:42.600] basics and because I was good at really kind of basic athletic execution and for
[09:42.600 -> 09:45.200] me then to start to work on other areas of my game.
[09:45.200 -> 09:48.320] Now I know you're talking about other areas of life but even just in sport
[09:49.040 -> 09:52.320] if you concentrate too much on your weaknesses then you forget the reason why you're there in
[09:52.320 -> 09:58.960] the first place. So for me I think it is important to to work on those weaknesses and to try and get
[09:58.960 -> 10:03.440] better at some of those areas of your life outside of sport now I'm talking but also to remember
[10:04.400 -> 10:05.360] why you're there and what
[10:05.360 -> 10:10.800] your main goal is and be single-minded and be unashamed about that, be single-minded about
[10:10.800 -> 10:14.560] those things and be focused on them. It's interesting isn't it, it resonates with what
[10:14.560 -> 10:18.960] Matthew McConnell, he said where on the podcast he said we always focus on our failures and our
[10:18.960 -> 10:23.840] struggles, he said let's focus on the good stuff, the times when we're flying and I think that that
[10:23.840 -> 10:25.240] is a really important point you make,
[10:25.240 -> 10:27.520] is that we're all obsessed with where are our weak points
[10:27.520 -> 10:29.320] that we need to improve, but hold on,
[10:29.320 -> 10:30.920] the reason why I'm here initially
[10:30.920 -> 10:32.200] is the stuff I'm already good at
[10:32.200 -> 10:35.160] and you can't let that die away.
[10:35.160 -> 10:36.400] Yeah, I agree completely.
[10:36.400 -> 10:39.840] So for example, not to get too kind of nerdy
[10:39.840 -> 10:42.120] and into the technical side of rugby,
[10:42.120 -> 10:48.640] but for me, what I was very good at as a youngster very naturally good at was getting the ball under my right
[10:48.640 -> 10:52.160] arm and just get my left hand and just get my fend up and just getting someone
[10:52.160 -> 10:55.240] in the chest or someone in the head and just getting an opportunity to get
[10:55.240 -> 11:00.160] on the outside of the defender. Now whenever then I started getting spending
[11:00.160 -> 11:03.280] some time with coaches and there'd be a lot of technical feedback and
[11:03.280 -> 11:09.840] work-ons you know I was encouraged to hold the ball in two hands and use the ability to move the ball over
[11:09.840 -> 11:13.200] to my left hand and use my right arm fend.
[11:13.200 -> 11:15.200] It never, it was never as good.
[11:15.200 -> 11:16.880] I worked on it continually.
[11:16.880 -> 11:18.840] It was never as good.
[11:18.840 -> 11:24.640] And I got to the point where sometimes I was better off reaching across, doing the really
[11:24.640 -> 11:25.840] uncoordinated thing, reaching
[11:25.840 -> 11:27.640] across and actually spinning out of time.
[11:27.680 -> 11:32.360] And so to me, again, just a principle, that's what I'm good at.
[11:32.440 -> 11:35.840] I need to continue to be better at what I'm good at, because that's the reason
[11:35.840 -> 11:39.360] why I'm in the shop window, I'm getting opportunities, but yes, I'm not saying
[11:39.360 -> 11:40.800] just forget about stuff like that.
[11:41.000 -> 11:49.000] I'm sorry to kind of bombard you with rugby technique that may fall on deaf ears with a lot of people but that was just
[11:49.000 -> 11:53.080] an example of you know something that I was good at so don't ever move away from
[11:53.080 -> 11:56.880] what I was good at, it was my lesson that I learned. But beyond that though
[11:56.880 -> 12:00.840] Andrew I read a few comments that you've made around when you spoke to the media
[12:00.840 -> 12:04.600] for example that you used to just give bland comments and you were bored and
[12:04.600 -> 12:06.000] they were bored but you were almost going through the motions and yet you a chymerodd i'r cymdeithasau, er enghraifft, a'ch gynhyrchu'n ddiddorol, a'ch bod yn fwy, ac roedden nhw'n fwy,
[12:06.000 -> 12:08.000] ond roeddech chi'n nes i ddod trwy'r cymdeithasau,
[12:08.000 -> 12:10.000] ac i gyd, roeddech chi'n fynydd
[12:10.000 -> 12:12.000] sydd ganddo'r hanfodau ddwyieithio,
[12:12.000 -> 12:14.000] felly, roeddech chi'n astudio ffysig,
[12:14.000 -> 12:16.000] roeddech chi'n mynd yna i ddod o hyd i Theologa,
[12:16.000 -> 12:18.000] roeddech chi'n amhwysig,
[12:18.000 -> 12:20.000] ac yn ddiddorol,
[12:20.000 -> 12:22.000] i sut mae'r byd yn gweithio.
[12:22.000 -> 12:24.000] Pa mor oeddech chi'n teimlo
[12:24.000 -> 12:29.000] y byddwch chi'n rhaid i chi ddiddorolu y rhan o'ch personolithaeth How much did you feel that you had to deaden that side of your personality to then become this singular focused rugby player?
[12:29.000 -> 12:38.000] Yeah, my thing with the media was always, it was a very negative mindset and it was a problem, it was something I didn't like
[12:38.000 -> 12:45.640] because I would be one type of person just normally, everyday life with, with my teammates and my friends.
[12:46.160 -> 12:49.920] And then I was another person for the media and it frustrated me that I just, I could
[12:49.920 -> 12:50.840] never be myself.
[12:50.840 -> 12:53.240] I just, I got nervous, I suppose, in front of the camera.
[12:53.600 -> 12:57.320] And, and I was always concerned, not that I would say something positive or something
[12:57.320 -> 12:58.800] interesting or something compelling.
[12:59.200 -> 13:02.520] I was always concerned that I would say something stupid or I would cock up, or I
[13:02.520 -> 13:04.840] would say just one of these unwritten rules.
[13:06.840 -> 13:11.480] It's like the opposition, it's like your teammates, it's like, you know, whatever it was, it just be, you just, just slip up, just make a
[13:11.480 -> 13:12.000] mistake.
[13:12.040 -> 13:16.320] And I suppose there was, there was a stage in my career towards the end where I
[13:16.320 -> 13:20.640] started to care less and caring less just allowed me to be myself a little bit more.
[13:20.960 -> 13:24.320] Um, and I thought it was always, it was a bit frustrating and a bit of a shame that
[13:24.320 -> 13:27.040] I could never, I found it difficult to be myself I was just
[13:27.040 -> 13:31.080] uptight and I was concerned about making mistake rather than actually just being
[13:31.080 -> 13:35.960] just being myself and and being unashamed just to just talk the way I
[13:35.960 -> 13:39.080] would normally talk. I think though that that's something that that comes with
[13:39.080 -> 13:42.520] age and there will be people listening to this podcast now that would love to
[13:42.520 -> 13:45.920] be in a headspace of just letting it all go and
[13:45.920 -> 13:51.760] just being totally themselves. But I think at 20, 21, even I found at 30, that was a difficult thing
[13:51.760 -> 13:58.640] for me. I'm now 42 and I finally feel I'm in a place to totally be me. And I think that comes
[13:58.640 -> 14:03.840] with having different layers to what you're doing. So let's say I'm just presenting football on the
[14:03.840 -> 14:05.120] television. I'm kind presenting football on the television.
[14:05.120 -> 14:07.000] I'm kind of anxious about getting anything wrong there
[14:07.000 -> 14:08.160] because there's no safety net.
[14:08.160 -> 14:10.840] When you create a podcast or set up a business
[14:10.840 -> 14:12.680] or have other things going on,
[14:12.680 -> 14:14.200] it gives you that ability, I think,
[14:14.200 -> 14:16.120] just to be a bit braver with your decision-making.
[14:16.120 -> 14:19.160] And I wonder whether for you, your whole world was rugby.
[14:19.160 -> 14:21.800] So anything that brought stress into that rugby world
[14:22.680 -> 14:23.860] was a bad thing.
[14:23.860 -> 14:26.200] Whereas now you're a guy that does a whole load
[14:26.200 -> 14:27.040] of different things.
[14:27.040 -> 14:29.560] Yeah, yeah, I think there's something to that, definitely.
[14:29.560 -> 14:34.560] And I think my exposure to two or three different aspects
[14:34.960 -> 14:37.160] of my life and two or three different interests
[14:37.160 -> 14:41.000] and projects and roles actually strengthened each other.
[14:41.000 -> 14:42.660] So even whenever I was playing rugby,
[14:42.660 -> 14:44.320] I was always studying whenever I was playing.
[14:44.320 -> 14:47.840] You mentioned physics, which again was the
[14:47.840 -> 14:51.900] recommendation from my parents. That's the way to go
[14:51.900 -> 14:56.000] to physics at university. I did it for a year and changed to theology. I did
[14:56.000 -> 15:01.180] management and then a finance postgrad. So I always kept myself busy. Again, same
[15:01.180 -> 15:06.280] principle. I felt like if I had exposure to different areas of my life, it would strengthen what I was doing.
[15:06.280 -> 15:13.120] I know that there mightn't seem much of a crossover between physics or finance and rugby,
[15:13.120 -> 15:16.880] but for me it was just different exposure to different types of people and just stretching
[15:16.880 -> 15:17.880] myself a little bit.
[15:17.880 -> 15:19.900] And the same is true now.
[15:19.900 -> 15:25.760] So a little bit of podcasting, a little bit of commentating at rugby games. Obviously my
[15:25.760 -> 15:30.840] day job is with Keros, you know, with software, selling software to football teams and rugby
[15:30.840 -> 15:36.640] teams and I like that balance and I think the ability to host a podcast also allows
[15:36.640 -> 15:41.600] me to present correctly or to explain things better or just to be able to be a clearer
[15:41.600 -> 15:46.860] communicator. I think they all strengthen each other and that's good for me personally anyway.
[15:46.860 -> 15:47.840] I find there's a lot of strengths
[15:47.840 -> 15:49.680] from having two or three different things
[15:49.680 -> 15:51.280] all complementing each other.
[15:51.280 -> 15:53.440] Can I talk to you about religion as well?
[15:53.440 -> 15:55.380] Because I think you have to get to a certain point
[15:55.380 -> 15:57.320] in your life where you're happy to really be you
[15:57.320 -> 15:58.960] and be totally honest.
[15:58.960 -> 16:01.240] Early on in your rugby career,
[16:01.240 -> 16:03.720] were you able to talk about your religious beliefs
[16:03.720 -> 16:04.800] and your own values?
[16:04.800 -> 16:07.520] Or did you find that in that kind of heady mix of the
[16:07.520 -> 16:10.400] drinking culture and the laddish behavior and everyone
[16:10.400 -> 16:13.120] going out and enjoying themselves, you felt like a bit of
[16:13.120 -> 16:13.960] an outsider?
[16:13.960 -> 16:18.160] Did you compromise your own beliefs to fit in a bit more?
[16:18.160 -> 16:21.360] Yeah, I suppose my, yeah, potentially, yeah,
[16:21.360 -> 16:23.600] there's always that tension.
[16:23.600 -> 16:27.120] And for me, where my religious beliefs are
[16:27.320 -> 16:30.400] would be very different now at 36 than they were at 20.
[16:30.600 -> 16:34.600] So whenever you're a teenager and growing up in that environment,
[16:34.800 -> 16:41.280] things seem very black and white and you neatly pigeonhole answers away.
[16:41.480 -> 16:43.440] And you've got an answer for everything.
[16:43.440 -> 16:47.360] You can just tidy everything up nicely and it all makes sense in your perfect little
[16:47.360 -> 16:49.040] naive world.
[16:49.040 -> 16:52.520] And then whenever you grow up, you're friends with so many different types of people and
[16:52.520 -> 16:54.040] you've so many different exposures.
[16:54.040 -> 16:59.960] And for me, you know, playing rugby, you know, going on tour, left, right and centre and
[16:59.960 -> 17:07.040] spending time with people who I was best friends with and big influences on me, and just people with very different types of upbringing
[17:07.040 -> 17:09.440] to me, and then just encountering just life,
[17:09.440 -> 17:11.520] a lot of life outside of rugby,
[17:11.520 -> 17:13.840] my profession just made me realize, you know,
[17:13.840 -> 17:15.080] there's a lot of gray here as well.
[17:15.080 -> 17:17.040] Not everything is black and white, there's a lot of gray,
[17:17.040 -> 17:20.440] and I'm very thankful for my upbringing,
[17:20.440 -> 17:23.640] but I'm also very thankful for a lot of experiences
[17:23.640 -> 17:25.880] that helped me to put what I felt was very
[17:25.880 -> 17:28.540] simplistic, very black and white into context.
[17:28.540 -> 17:32.720] And although that complicates things, I don't have neat, tidy little perfect answers for
[17:32.720 -> 17:34.040] everything now.
[17:34.040 -> 17:35.040] Far from it.
[17:35.040 -> 17:38.720] But I, you know, I'm happy, I'm happy not knowing the answers.
[17:38.720 -> 17:42.920] And I'm happier kind of just having a little bit more balance and understanding and appreciation
[17:42.920 -> 17:44.640] of different perspectives.
[17:44.640 -> 17:47.100] And I'm aware how wishy-washy this sounds, by the way.
[17:47.100 -> 17:48.440] No, I think it sounds smart.
[17:48.440 -> 17:49.280] No, it doesn't.
[17:49.280 -> 17:50.120] I think it sounds smart,
[17:50.120 -> 17:53.560] and it's an example that we're all evolving all the time.
[17:53.560 -> 17:55.680] One thing you mentioned there that I'd like to pick up on,
[17:55.680 -> 17:57.360] the importance of your upbringing.
[17:57.360 -> 17:59.400] What was it in your upbringing, do you think,
[17:59.400 -> 18:01.320] that meant you were able to perform
[18:01.320 -> 18:02.560] to the highest level in sport?
[18:02.560 -> 18:04.960] You had that self-belief, that determination.
[18:04.960 -> 18:05.040] What kind of messages were instilled into you as a young man? able to perform to the highest level in sport, you had that self-belief, that determination,
[18:05.040 -> 18:08.680] what kind of messages were instilled into you as a young man?
[18:08.680 -> 18:15.200] From a rugby perspective, my dad's a big rugby man, he loves his rugby and him and
[18:15.200 -> 18:19.240] mum just travelled the length and breadth of Ireland every weekend to watch me play
[18:19.240 -> 18:25.840] for Ulster U20s, Ireland U20s and club games for Balomina before I moved up and started
[18:25.840 -> 18:29.440] playing for Ulster and then still they were traveling. Now they loved it, they got the
[18:29.440 -> 18:34.000] opportunity to go to Argentina for the under 21s world cup and they made friends then,
[18:34.000 -> 18:38.320] parents of other guys that I was playing with, that they still keep in touch now. They're all
[18:38.320 -> 18:42.400] in this WhatsApp group and they all go down to the Dingle in South of Ireland every summer
[18:43.120 -> 18:48.160] to catch up for a week-long holiday. They sound like swingers here actually, I'm just realising.
[18:48.160 -> 18:52.160] But I think that the support that I got from my mum and dad and being plugged
[18:52.160 -> 18:56.080] into that rugby network, my dad, the one piece of advice he always
[18:56.080 -> 18:59.200] gave me was to back myself and to I suppose just have confidence,
[18:59.200 -> 19:02.480] because he knew, maybe he knew me better than a lot of people, he knew that
[19:02.480 -> 19:07.460] confidence was something I struggled with and he always took me aside and said why did you pass
[19:07.460 -> 19:10.160] that why don't you just go yourself why don't you just back yourself you passed
[19:10.160 -> 19:14.820] it to someone else who then he in turn backed himself and he he took a defender
[19:14.820 -> 19:18.720] on you could have done that you know and he he always just wanted the best for me
[19:18.720 -> 19:22.180] and my mom as well they just wanted the best for me and they supported me and
[19:22.180 -> 19:27.760] that that was so important to me having that support and having those guys always in my corner, always backing me
[19:27.760 -> 19:34.440] up and I think that gave me a good opportunity to push on and achieve what I achieved in
[19:34.440 -> 19:35.440] my rugby career.
[19:35.440 -> 19:39.240] When you talk about confidence then Andrew, there's a difference between confidence and
[19:39.240 -> 19:46.160] self-esteem and it sounds like they were giving you some pretty healthy routes of developing ac mae'n ddweud bod nhw'n rhoi rwyf i chi rai rwyfion cymhleth iawn a datblygu eich hyder.
[19:46.160 -> 19:51.040] Pa ffordd y gafodd chi, wrth i chi ddod o'r rhanau o chwarae o'r ddinasau ac yna mynd
[19:51.040 -> 19:55.280] i'r gêm profesiynol a'r gêm byddionol, pa ffordd y gafodd chi weithio ar ddatblygu
[19:55.280 -> 20:08.440] y confideniaeth os oedd hynny'n broblem i chi? Ie, roedd y confideniaeth yn broblem i mi, yn hytrach na'r gefnogaeth o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai quite, you know, having that support from my parents and, you know, people who were close to me growing up, I listened to your podcast with Caspar Smychel,
[20:08.640 -> 20:12.840] and he was talking about that knowledge and knowing that you were going to achieve
[20:13.040 -> 20:16.800] something someday and that confidence and, you know, being confident enough to be
[20:17.000 -> 20:22.080] outspoken publicly about that, that didn't quite work with me because
[20:22.280 -> 20:24.080] I didn't know whether I was going to achieve it.
[20:24.080 -> 20:28.360] If I said it, it would just be empty words and I wouldn't really, I'd be saying it to put
[20:28.360 -> 20:32.000] myself under pressure, then I'd be more likely to achieve something because I was under that
[20:32.000 -> 20:37.400] pressure but I wouldn't have the confidence really for me. It was about going back to
[20:37.400 -> 20:47.680] basics. I used to watch, there was one Six Nations and I wasn't selected for it and Craig Gilroy and Simon Zeebo were on the wings for Ireland
[20:47.680 -> 20:54.400] I'm sure people will remember this but pass was thrown behind Simon Zeebo and he did this ridiculous
[20:55.040 -> 20:55.880] execution of skill
[20:55.880 -> 21:01.360] He just he just flicked the ball up with his boot and did almost like a couple of keepy-ups and then the ball just popped
[21:01.360 -> 21:07.900] Into his bread basket. I just thought that is incredible. That's an incredible piece of skill that he's executed there.
[21:07.900 -> 21:11.600] But if that's what it takes to play in the wing for Ireland,
[21:11.600 -> 21:15.200] I'm not going to be playing in the wing for Ireland very much because I can't do that.
[21:15.200 -> 21:19.000] And it's it's I think it's fine for me to accept that and acknowledge that I can't do that.
[21:19.000 -> 21:22.600] That's not the style of player. I am he's he has more talent than me.
[21:22.600 -> 21:27.640] I've obviously got a level of talent and ability to be able to be in that environment
[21:28.160 -> 21:32.960] But that's not the style of player if that's what's expected. I can't do that. But what I can do is
[21:34.040 -> 21:40.120] analyze my performance look at my performance look at it a little bit more objectively and got some support from guys around me to do that and
[21:41.240 -> 21:45.580] Then Joe Schmidt arrived in the the Irish setup and he's a guy who made it
[21:45.580 -> 21:49.980] really accessible for me to know that I would be able to execute on Saturday and
[21:49.980 -> 21:54.300] execution for me is not doing keepy-ups execution for me is carrying the ball
[21:54.300 -> 21:58.020] hard using footwork making good decisions with ball in hand working hard
[21:58.020 -> 22:01.540] in the backfield to cover kick options and chasing kicks and getting in the
[22:01.540 -> 22:11.200] air so about five or six really really basic simple execution pieces for me and I'm a good athlete and if I practice
[22:11.200 -> 22:14.240] something I can get very good at it even though naturally it might not be that
[22:14.240 -> 22:17.680] good but I know I can execute all those things and when I put those together
[22:17.680 -> 22:22.360] that combines to a really really decent performance at international level.
[22:22.360 -> 22:28.600] Someone like Joe Schmidt created an environment where I could go away and say just piece things together. Getting to
[22:28.600 -> 22:31.600] the end of the week is difficult but getting from Monday to Tuesday is okay.
[22:31.600 -> 22:34.480] Getting from Tuesday to Wednesday is okay because I would just put these
[22:34.480 -> 22:40.120] pieces of my performance together. Any issues that I would have, almost like
[22:40.120 -> 22:44.560] what I'm doing now with developing software, whatever problems that
[22:44.560 -> 22:45.640] we can identify,
[22:45.640 -> 22:46.840] put a solution in place.
[22:46.840 -> 22:49.000] So I just put little solutions all through the week,
[22:49.000 -> 22:50.820] and then whenever I got to the weekend,
[22:50.820 -> 22:52.680] this is where the confidence comes in, Damien.
[22:52.680 -> 22:54.840] Then I could look at what I'd done that week,
[22:54.840 -> 22:57.960] and my thought process almost acted
[22:57.960 -> 23:00.680] like a tool for rational thinking.
[23:00.680 -> 23:02.960] I would say, listen, I've provided a solution
[23:02.960 -> 23:04.560] to all the potential problems
[23:04.560 -> 23:06.460] that I'm gonna encounter on the pitch.
[23:06.460 -> 23:08.180] It's very likely I'm gonna perform.
[23:08.180 -> 23:10.820] There's no reason why I won't perform well.
[23:10.820 -> 23:12.640] So that allows me to have confidence.
[23:12.640 -> 23:13.920] So it's a rational confidence.
[23:13.920 -> 23:17.300] It's not a confidence that's not based on anything.
[23:17.300 -> 23:19.860] It's not me just saying, I'm going to achieve this.
[23:19.860 -> 23:21.660] I'm going to achieve this because I put this,
[23:21.660 -> 23:22.940] this and this in place.
[23:22.940 -> 23:25.840] So it's confidence came from evidence in many ways.
[23:25.880 -> 23:29.400] Yeah, I'm not trying to trick myself. I'm just, instead of trying to convince
[23:29.400 -> 23:32.960] myself that I'm better than I am, it's just trying to remind myself that I'm,
[23:33.000 -> 23:34.040] this is how good I am.
[23:34.280 -> 23:35.920] It's very smart management that isn't it?
[23:35.920 -> 23:40.040] Because it sounds to me like you were applying unnecessary pressure to yourself
[23:40.040 -> 23:43.200] by looking at people do things you couldn't possibly do and think, wow,
[23:43.200 -> 23:45.460] I can't do that. I'm gonna be no good.
[23:45.460 -> 23:47.340] Yet you're then having a manager who's saying to you,
[23:47.340 -> 23:50.020] listen, the stuff that you can do
[23:50.020 -> 23:52.280] is all that you need to focus on and concentrate on.
[23:52.280 -> 23:54.140] So if you just get that bit right,
[23:54.140 -> 23:55.380] then things will be a success.
[23:55.380 -> 23:56.700] And I think sometimes that's so important
[23:56.700 -> 23:59.020] for people to hear that it's not about reaching for the stars
[23:59.020 -> 24:00.100] and doing the impossible.
[24:00.100 -> 24:01.540] It's about what, Damien, what was it
[24:01.540 -> 24:03.180] that Ian McGeehan said to us?
[24:03.180 -> 24:05.000] The world- class basics.
[24:05.000 -> 24:05.360] Yeah.
[24:05.360 -> 24:08.040] And I think sometimes there is a lot of value in that, isn't there?
[24:08.080 -> 24:08.680] Absolutely.
[24:08.680 -> 24:12.760] So you had Siakalisi on the show a few weeks ago as well.
[24:12.760 -> 24:16.640] But I mean, look at the way South Africa won the World Cup.
[24:16.680 -> 24:18.440] That was world class basics.
[24:18.440 -> 24:20.560] And there's no lack of talent in that team.
[24:20.560 -> 24:22.080] There's no lack of ability in that team.
[24:22.080 -> 24:28.480] But they just stuck to the basics and they stuck to their strengths and if their strengths is being unbelievably physical and
[24:28.480 -> 24:32.640] dominant and direct, then that's fine and they're going to be better at that than anybody
[24:32.640 -> 24:34.900] else in the world and that's why they won the World Cup.
[24:34.900 -> 24:39.000] So I think if you play to your strengths and you keep things simple, but you do them really
[24:39.000 -> 24:43.720] effectively and consistently and if you're really reliable at doing that week in week
[24:43.720 -> 24:47.000] out, then I think that's a recipe for success.
[24:47.000 -> 24:48.000] Really good.
[24:48.000 -> 24:53.000] So Joe Smith is a fascinating character for us in your career.
[24:53.000 -> 24:59.000] He was obviously a catalyst, but in the wider context of Irish rugby, there's almost a before Joe Smith and an after him.
[24:59.000 -> 25:08.880] How would you describe what he did that made you be able to perform at such a high level then Andrew? He created an environment that was that was it was perfect for me
[25:08.880 -> 25:12.800] and it was perfect for a lot of guys but especially me because the contrast from
[25:12.800 -> 25:16.640] before and after Joe Schmidt for Irish rugby in general but for me you know I
[25:16.640 -> 25:22.320] was kind of an example of how things changed really. He created an
[25:22.320 -> 25:28.640] environment where you realize the importance of the small things, you realise the importance of again very
[25:28.640 -> 25:33.720] very, and we're getting dangerously close to me getting nerdy about a rugby
[25:33.720 -> 25:39.640] technique here again, but the importance of really really basic contributions to
[25:39.640 -> 25:44.000] the game like just how good your set piece was, how good your footwork was, how
[25:44.000 -> 25:47.800] good your leg drive was, looking after the ball whenever you're the ball carrier, making
[25:47.800 -> 25:52.040] good decisions, just accuracy over passing and accuracy over over kicking,
[25:52.040 -> 25:56.480] kick receipt, this sort of really really small pieces of execution but if
[25:56.480 -> 26:03.660] everybody raises 5-10% then it creates a massive impact on the team and also one
[26:03.660 -> 26:06.840] thing Joe always used to say was good players
[26:06.840 -> 26:11.640] make other team mates look good. So again, he brought in a couple of players, he was
[26:11.640 -> 26:15.280] very creative as well. That sounds like he just went back to basics. He did in some ways,
[26:15.280 -> 26:20.760] but he also brought in a massive level of creativity that the coaches are still copying
[26:20.760 -> 26:29.000] now. There's some kind of iconic plays that Joe Schmidt brought in that people are still copying. They're all totally dependent on every
[26:29.000 -> 26:33.320] contributor to that play executing perfectly and the reason why they're
[26:33.320 -> 26:36.760] executing that is so that someone else will be in space. There's thought to it,
[26:36.760 -> 26:40.200] there's a bigger picture and I think Joe brought an appreciation of that.
[26:40.200 -> 26:43.840] So whenever we did walkthroughs on a Wednesday night, we'd come back to camp
[26:43.840 -> 26:47.440] on Wednesday night ahead of kind of the big session of the week on Thursday.
[26:47.440 -> 26:52.840] The intensity and the stress levels on that Wednesday night walkthrough were
[26:52.840 -> 26:58.080] like test match level. It was incredible. Like everybody was nervous about talking
[26:58.080 -> 27:00.640] to each other, everybody was nervous about coming into the environment and he
[27:00.640 -> 27:04.360] just created an environment where it was totally unacceptable not to know what
[27:04.360 -> 27:05.960] you were doing and not to be in a position to be
[27:05.960 -> 27:08.560] able to execute. And that meant everybody was accurate.
[27:08.560 -> 27:09.960] Everybody knew where we're supposed to be.
[27:10.160 -> 27:13.720] And then once you've been through that stress on the Wednesday night,
[27:13.920 -> 27:18.120] you get to Saturday morning and you know everything and you're totally prepared.
[27:18.120 -> 27:19.840] And again, it's the confidence piece.
[27:19.960 -> 27:21.520] You know, you've put everything in place
[27:21.520 -> 27:28.640] to be in a position to be able to perform and you're walking into an exam knowing you know all the answers. And it's a great place to be, Gwyddoch chi fod wedi rhoi popeth yn y lle i fod yn y le i allu cyrraedd ac rydych chi'n mynd i'r test gan gael gwybod yr holl adroddiadau ac mae'n lle gwych i fod, yn enwedig pan edrych
[27:28.640 -> 27:32.240] iawn a'ch cymdeithaswyr yn meddwl yr un peth. Ond beth yw'r cymdeithaswyr, Andrew,
[27:32.240 -> 27:37.760] o ran, maen nhw'n hollol ddifrifol a'r innovatioau technol a wnaeth e, ond i chi
[27:37.760 -> 27:42.720] creu hynny mae angen i gyd fod rhywbeth ar y gysylltiad personol gyda'i gweithredu,
[27:42.720 -> 27:49.680] ei gallu deall eich bod yn person. Beth did he do in that regard that made him so significant?
[27:49.680 -> 27:56.360] Joe's a workaholic, he absolutely lives, breathes and sleeps rugby. He loves rugby and he knows
[27:56.360 -> 28:01.380] rugby intimately. There will not be a player in world rugby that he won't know what arm
[28:01.380 -> 28:08.320] he dominantly carries the ball with, what foot he steps off. He knows everything about most players, about most teams.
[28:08.320 -> 28:09.840] He just loves his rugby.
[28:09.840 -> 28:13.320] And he knows rugby so well that, again, for me,
[28:13.320 -> 28:16.160] and I'm sure this is the same for a lot of other guys,
[28:16.160 -> 28:18.600] if he selects me and he's telling me I'm good enough,
[28:18.600 -> 28:19.880] he's got an authority in this.
[28:19.880 -> 28:22.160] And if he's gonna have confidence in me,
[28:22.160 -> 28:23.920] then I should have confidence in myself.
[28:23.920 -> 28:28.260] I think that's the same for a lot of guys and in terms of the game plan, if he
[28:28.260 -> 28:32.260] implemented a game plan or he said this will break this team down for this
[28:32.260 -> 28:36.740] reason, if you run this line the defender will defend in this way, we
[28:36.740 -> 28:39.940] all backed him up and we all bought into that and we all said right listen if Joe
[28:39.940 -> 28:43.620] believes that this is gonna work there's every chance it's gonna work. It might
[28:43.620 -> 28:46.880] not always work but nine times out of ten it's going to work.
[28:46.880 -> 28:50.720] And often we understood it and we weren't just doing what we were told.
[28:50.720 -> 28:53.840] But even when you didn't understand it, if you did what you were told,
[28:53.840 -> 28:58.000] you'd probably end up all right and you could kind of buy into that mindset.
[28:58.000 -> 29:01.280] How did Joe deal with the games where it didn't go to plan
[29:01.280 -> 29:04.480] and what he expected didn't happen or someone let him down?
[29:04.480 -> 29:05.360] I think
[29:05.360 -> 29:10.880] the ability to deal with the bad times teaches us so much. Yeah, yeah definitely. There were times
[29:10.880 -> 29:16.560] whenever, yeah potentially, the defender, not often, the defender didn't defend the way we
[29:16.560 -> 29:21.600] expected him to. The analysis wasn't correct, maybe, and that didn't happen very often. Usually
[29:21.600 -> 29:26.800] it was they defended the way we expected them to defend, but someone didn't execute their role.
[29:27.000 -> 29:28.480] And that had a knock on effect that there
[29:28.480 -> 29:30.680] wasn't space where we expected there to be space.
[29:30.880 -> 29:33.880] So it was never it was rarely emotional.
[29:33.880 -> 29:35.360] The reaction was rarely emotional.
[29:35.560 -> 29:38.040] It was rational, logical.
[29:38.240 -> 29:39.680] We're in this position now.
[29:39.880 -> 29:44.040] And in 2014, when we won the not the Grand Slam, the Six Nations,
[29:44.240 -> 29:45.360] we got beat at Twickenham
[29:45.360 -> 29:50.320] by England and it was all doom and gloom. There was a massive emotional impact that
[29:50.320 -> 29:55.560] that had and I remember the team meeting that we had with Joe on the Monday morning was
[29:55.560 -> 30:00.500] that there's no emotion here, we're still in a really good position to win the Six Nations,
[30:00.500 -> 30:04.320] this is what went wrong, this is why it went wrong. If we correct those things and execute
[30:04.320 -> 30:06.480] correctly whenever we go to Paris in a couple of weeks time,
[30:06.480 -> 30:08.480] we're likely to be successful.
[30:08.480 -> 30:11.080] It's mind-blowingly non-emotional.
[30:11.080 -> 30:12.440] It's just really rational.
[30:12.440 -> 30:14.440] Here's the problem. Here's the solution.
[30:14.440 -> 30:16.440] Here's how to fix it and we'll get back on track.
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[32:58.800 -> 33:04.240] so is emotion not a good thing to have because I've never been in an elite
[33:04.240 -> 33:05.320] sporting environment,
[33:05.320 -> 33:07.880] okay, but I assume there's a moment
[33:07.880 -> 33:08.720] where someone needs to go,
[33:08.720 -> 33:12.120] listen guys, you have to understand what this means,
[33:12.120 -> 33:13.200] smash your heads together,
[33:13.200 -> 33:15.480] let's have a proper conversation about today
[33:15.480 -> 33:17.440] and the nation are waiting on this
[33:17.440 -> 33:18.680] and everyone's in front of their tellies
[33:18.680 -> 33:20.400] and it's all on your shoulders.
[33:20.400 -> 33:23.340] Can that not be a healthy thing to instill in players,
[33:23.340 -> 33:26.160] to make them realise the emotional
[33:26.160 -> 33:28.360] strain and toll of a game of rugby or not?
[33:28.360 -> 33:35.280] Yeah, I think it can. It definitely will help, of course. There is a certain impact from
[33:35.280 -> 33:41.680] that whenever guys are emotional, more motivated and just ready to go out and rip guys' heads
[33:41.680 -> 33:48.000] off. That will have an impact and guys will be more motivated to to get gain lines to be more physical to be more dominant
[33:48.000 -> 33:52.520] and but I just don't think you can do that every week you can't have that
[33:52.520 -> 33:57.600] emotional response or you can't dig that deep it's it's it's really difficult to
[33:57.600 -> 34:00.880] dig that deep every single weekend and maybe there might be more of an impact
[34:00.880 -> 34:08.160] for that or or more of a space for that sort of mindset and that approach or that coaching philosophy whenever you're
[34:08.160 -> 34:11.200] an international coach when you've just got a period of games and you can have
[34:11.200 -> 34:15.760] that period of high intensity but at a club level I don't think you
[34:15.760 -> 34:19.200] can do that. I think you could do that every now and again for a big game, for a
[34:19.200 -> 34:23.480] derby match, for a rivalry but I think it's really difficult to rely on that
[34:23.480 -> 34:27.860] and when you rely on that if someone's just having an off day then the consistency or the
[34:27.860 -> 34:31.840] execution levels are going to be up and down whereas if you rely on execution
[34:31.840 -> 34:36.600] and thinking through how to manipulate defenses and get in the
[34:36.600 -> 34:41.720] ascendancy then I think that's a way more robust mechanism for building a
[34:41.720 -> 34:47.260] performance. See what I'm finding fascinating, Andre, is that you're almost articulating
[34:47.260 -> 34:49.160] the secret sauce of so many cultures,
[34:49.160 -> 34:51.140] which is around communication.
[34:51.140 -> 34:53.780] That like when it's good, people don't notice it.
[34:53.780 -> 34:56.340] When things go wrong, people often then blame it
[34:56.340 -> 34:57.800] as a factor.
[34:57.800 -> 35:00.980] And I know that that links to your business
[35:00.980 -> 35:03.100] that you do now with Kairos.
[35:03.100 -> 35:05.760] So what would you describe to listeners
[35:05.760 -> 35:09.800] are the key factors of great communication
[35:09.800 -> 35:11.960] that then leads to high performance?
[35:11.960 -> 35:16.520] I feel like if a coach communicates
[35:16.520 -> 35:18.540] a certain directive to a player,
[35:18.540 -> 35:21.920] if that coach has a history or a reputation
[35:21.920 -> 35:24.200] of that being put in perspective,
[35:24.200 -> 35:27.640] okay, he exaggerates that, or what he really means by that is this,
[35:28.080 -> 35:32.960] then what he says is always going to be interpreted in a subjective way.
[35:32.960 -> 35:34.000] It's always going to be okay.
[35:34.000 -> 35:35.800] There's always going to be a filter on that.
[35:36.080 -> 35:40.000] Whereas if a coach always says exactly what he means or she means,
[35:40.440 -> 35:42.560] then you're always just going to take it at face value.
[35:42.560 -> 35:45.640] You know, there's always going to be, you can never be 100% objective.
[35:45.640 -> 35:46.760] It's always going to mean something.
[35:46.760 -> 35:48.080] There'll be body language involved.
[35:48.080 -> 35:50.200] There'll be the context for the communication,
[35:50.200 -> 35:52.680] whether it's communicated one-on-one or in a team.
[35:52.680 -> 35:56.240] But I think in principle, if you always say what you mean,
[35:56.240 -> 35:57.960] if you're always really clear,
[35:57.960 -> 36:00.360] then it's always going to be interpreted objectively
[36:00.360 -> 36:01.840] and there's going to be an accountability
[36:01.840 -> 36:03.480] on the person who receives that.
[36:03.480 -> 36:05.580] Listen, I said exactly,
[36:05.580 -> 36:07.880] I said exactly what I wanted to say.
[36:07.880 -> 36:09.420] And I think you understood me.
[36:09.420 -> 36:10.660] So there's an accountability
[36:10.660 -> 36:13.040] that they have to react accordingly.
[36:13.040 -> 36:14.720] I think there's a lot to that,
[36:14.720 -> 36:16.260] if that's what you're thinking there, Damian.
[36:16.260 -> 36:18.460] Yeah, it's often one of the key factors
[36:18.460 -> 36:21.100] that is cited is communication breakdowns.
[36:21.100 -> 36:22.260] You know, when they hear about
[36:22.260 -> 36:24.260] a coach loses a dressing room,
[36:24.260 -> 36:26.000] it's often about they've stopped communicating or they've become reclusive Yn ystod y rhan o'r cysylltiadau cymdeithasol, pan ydych chi'n clywed bod y coach yn rhedeg ystafell ymddiried, mae'n aml yn ymwneud â'u bod wedi stopio'n cymdeithasol
[36:26.000 -> 36:28.000] neu wedi bod yn argymhell,
[36:28.000 -> 36:30.000] neu wedi bod yn erratic
[36:30.000 -> 36:32.000] yn y ffordd y maen nhw'n ei wneud.
[36:32.000 -> 36:34.000] Ac i mi, yn enwedig,
[36:34.000 -> 36:36.000] pan ydych chi'n ysgrifennu eich profiad gyda Joe,
[36:36.000 -> 36:38.000] roedd yna'r cyfnod o'r hyn
[36:38.000 -> 36:40.000] oedd y cyd-dod o'r hyn sydd wedi ei ddweud,
[36:40.000 -> 36:42.000] ond roedd y cyfnod o'r ffordd
[36:42.000 -> 36:44.000] y gafodd ei ddarparu,
[36:44.000 -> 36:45.120] a dwi'n credu, yn cael y gysylltiad constancy of how we delivered it that I think captures the essence of
[36:46.880 -> 36:49.760] Communication in high-performing environments. Yeah, I think so
[36:49.760 -> 36:52.720] I think just just being able to buy into it and to have confidence in
[36:53.320 -> 36:58.680] in what you were hearing and how you interpreted that and then the impact that that was going to have on your behavior and on your
[36:58.680 -> 37:04.540] Approach for the next game. I think having confidence in that is important. It's difficult from a coaches perspective, though
[37:06.160 -> 37:11.120] to to be completely honest I suppose whenever the situation where you're waiting on one
[37:11.120 -> 37:15.360] the the fitness test of one player but you're keeping another player waiting just to wait and
[37:15.360 -> 37:20.800] see. Whatever way that works out people are going to interpret that in hindsight okay that that
[37:20.800 -> 37:26.120] coach you know naively was too, or that coach was being sneaky.
[37:26.120 -> 37:31.120] And both are right, but they're just different conclusions
[37:31.280 -> 37:32.260] people are gonna jump to,
[37:32.260 -> 37:34.120] depending on how the outcome ends up.
[37:34.120 -> 37:36.420] So I have a lot of sympathy for managers
[37:36.420 -> 37:37.840] and coaches in that position.
[37:37.840 -> 37:39.320] I love the way you talk about rugby
[37:39.320 -> 37:41.280] and culture in the sport.
[37:41.280 -> 37:43.640] So I wanna ask you how difficult it is
[37:43.640 -> 37:45.200] the day when it all ends and you wake up
[37:45.200 -> 37:50.040] one morning and you're no longer defined by being a professional rugby player. How was that experience
[37:50.040 -> 37:55.960] for you? I'm very lucky. I'm very lucky that the timing everything was perfect for me and I was
[37:55.960 -> 38:03.800] very very lucky that I retired at a time where I had my purple patch and I'd had enough success to
[38:03.800 -> 38:05.920] look back and say I was I was very proud of what I accomplished. Had I not had that purple patch and I'd had enough success to look back and say I was very proud of what I
[38:05.920 -> 38:10.640] accomplished. Had I not had that I think I would have experienced what a lot of guys experience
[38:10.640 -> 38:14.640] whenever they finish and that's feeling like there's some unfinished business or a little
[38:14.640 -> 38:19.680] part of me still holds on to that identity. You know I'm a rugby player, I'm an Irish rugby player,
[38:19.680 -> 38:27.320] I'm an international and that's how I want to be known. For me, I did that and I was happy with what I accomplished
[38:28.480 -> 38:31.560] and I had enough ties outside of rugby
[38:31.560 -> 38:34.000] and enough, you know, friendships and connections
[38:34.000 -> 38:36.340] and enough going on, enough interests outside of rugby
[38:36.340 -> 38:37.880] that I always had that perspective.
[38:37.880 -> 38:39.140] It was always very important to me.
[38:39.140 -> 38:40.600] I was always single-minded and focused
[38:40.600 -> 38:43.920] like you're talking about, but I also had a lot of stuff
[38:43.920 -> 38:48.360] going on outside with, you know, with with studying and just family life and other interests.
[38:48.360 -> 38:50.640] I was happy enough to move on
[38:50.640 -> 38:53.360] and not be Andrew Trimble, the rugby player anymore.
[38:53.360 -> 38:56.200] And I was also, it was helped for me,
[38:57.200 -> 38:59.600] that period was easier for me
[38:59.600 -> 39:02.280] because I was passionate about getting into something else.
[39:02.280 -> 39:04.960] And that was developing Kairos software
[39:04.960 -> 39:07.320] and using my experience in
[39:07.320 -> 39:11.840] that high performance environment, just to impact and allow guys to thrive and use
[39:11.840 -> 39:13.320] technology to, to accomplish that.
[39:13.320 -> 39:14.640] So I was pretty excited.
[39:17.000 -> 39:21.880] Knowing what I know now, that excitement was probably misplaced because I had a lot
[39:21.880 -> 39:26.160] to learn and we're talking about sports people not being well-rounded and being spiky. I was very spiky. I had a lot to learn. And we're talking about sports people not being well rounded and being spiky.
[39:26.360 -> 39:27.600] I was very spiky.
[39:27.800 -> 39:29.440] I had a lot to learn.
[39:29.640 -> 39:30.280] I.
[39:30.480 -> 39:32.680] So come on, then tell us what you've learned.
[39:32.880 -> 39:34.040] What are the big lessons?
[39:34.240 -> 39:36.720] So just I suppose just
[39:36.920 -> 39:41.920] even just the technical lessons about the new role and managing software and managing
[39:42.120 -> 39:48.480] a team of developers, it's culture shock, managing a team of developers. It's culture shock managing a team of developers rather than managing a team
[39:48.480 -> 39:52.520] of athletes. And you talk about that macho sports environment versus software
[39:52.720 -> 39:57.840] developers, very, very different, but great, equally brilliant.
[39:58.040 -> 40:01.840] And actually, people are a lot more similar than you think.
[40:02.040 -> 40:06.760] And even just, you know, managing sales processes, managing marketing,
[40:06.960 -> 40:10.520] you know, all the stuff that I that I didn't have any exposure to.
[40:10.720 -> 40:12.200] I had a lot to learn.
[40:12.400 -> 40:13.680] And but I was excited about it.
[40:13.680 -> 40:14.360] And I still am.
[40:14.560 -> 40:16.600] And I'm still learning a lot as I go.
[40:16.800 -> 40:19.920] And I'm very excited about about the business and where we're going.
[40:19.920 -> 40:22.080] And some of the feedback we're getting is great.
[40:22.080 -> 40:23.320] And we're in a really good position.
[40:23.520 -> 40:27.920] I we've we've just secured a second round of investment.
[40:28.120 -> 40:29.960] And I wouldn't have had a notion despite
[40:29.960 -> 40:33.240] studying finance, I wouldn't have had a notion how to go around
[40:33.440 -> 40:37.800] securing investors, investment summaries, term sheets, all this sort of stuff.
[40:38.000 -> 40:41.960] I had a lot to learn, but I was up for it and I was excited about it.
[40:42.160 -> 40:44.920] And where we are now is a really exciting position.
[40:44.920 -> 40:46.240] We're bringing in a couple of new sales
[40:46.440 -> 40:48.760] executives and we're starting to get a bit of traction.
[40:48.960 -> 40:51.800] The last year would have been better had
[40:51.800 -> 40:54.240] Covid not hit, but everybody in the world is saying that.
[40:54.440 -> 40:58.440] We launched our product in February of last year.
[40:58.640 -> 41:00.000] Obviously, shock and time.
[41:00.200 -> 41:04.280] Yeah, on the flip side, you know, this is the High Performance Podcast.
[41:04.280 -> 41:08.320] And I think it's important to make the point that if you can survive through a global pandemic when no
[41:08.320 -> 41:12.920] one can leave their houses, then you should have a business that is viable.
[41:12.920 -> 41:13.920] Yeah, absolutely.
[41:13.920 -> 41:18.600] And again, there was a couple of things about the environment and day-to-day behaviors of
[41:18.600 -> 41:22.640] people that have changed that have allowed us to capture that a little bit more and there's
[41:22.640 -> 41:25.600] more of an emphasis on on communication.
[41:25.800 -> 41:26.800] Obviously, our platform,
[41:26.800 -> 41:29.640] scheduling communications is where we're really strong.
[41:29.840 -> 41:31.840] And there's so much more communicating
[41:32.040 -> 41:36.720] and communication that needs to be done in sports teams now with one way systems,
[41:36.920 -> 41:40.240] COVID protocols, testing procedures, all this sort of all.
[41:40.240 -> 41:41.720] There's loads and loads of stuff.
[41:41.720 -> 41:44.640] And we're capturing a lot of that with a lot of teams that we're working with.
[41:44.640 -> 41:47.440] And there's that. There's the operations piece which I think
[41:47.440 -> 41:50.840] is really important, which is really good, be able to communicate that clearly to players
[41:50.840 -> 41:53.180] whenever they need that and have it in front of them.
[41:53.180 -> 41:58.560] But there's this slightly less tangible value that we offer that's allowing players just
[41:58.560 -> 42:04.320] to free up that cognitive distraction of WhatsApp groups and email threads and whiteboards
[42:04.320 -> 42:09.880] for medical appointments and we're in a really good place now where the last year some of the feedback
[42:09.880 -> 42:14.720] we're getting, we really feel like we're getting that product market fit. We've got one football
[42:14.720 -> 42:18.360] team recommending us to another football team, these guys are solving problems, these guys
[42:18.360 -> 42:22.840] are allowing our athletes to know where they're supposed to be, to know where they're supposed
[42:22.840 -> 42:25.240] to park, to know what the training requirements are,
[42:25.240 -> 42:27.200] to know who's in bibs, who's not in bibs,
[42:27.200 -> 42:28.300] what time their appointment is,
[42:28.300 -> 42:31.000] all this kind of stuff that it seems unimportant,
[42:31.000 -> 42:32.760] but it takes up a little bit of space.
[42:32.760 -> 42:34.040] And we're talking earlier on,
[42:34.040 -> 42:35.120] we've talked all the way through this
[42:35.120 -> 42:38.480] about the focus and the single-mindedness of an athlete.
[42:38.480 -> 42:40.880] We feel like when we just capture that stuff,
[42:40.880 -> 42:42.360] put it to one side,
[42:42.360 -> 42:47.800] allow the guys to access that information when they need it, then put it to one side and then just continue to
[42:47.800 -> 42:51.460] worry about what is the most important. Again, being selfish, performance at the
[42:51.460 -> 42:55.560] weekend and all these operational difficulties and management of time
[42:55.560 -> 43:00.040] tables and scheduling and team comms can sometimes get in the way of that and
[43:00.040 -> 43:04.160] the impact can be guys can be slightly less single-minded. So we're trying to
[43:04.160 -> 43:05.280] deal with a lot of that stuff operationally and in football teams and rugby teams and the feedback we're getting is really good and we're y gall y rhai ffyrdd fod yn ddiddorol iawn, felly rydyn ni'n ceisio ymdrechu â phlaenau hynny,
[43:05.280 -> 43:07.280] yn y gweithle, yn y tîm ffotograff a'r tîm rugby,
[43:07.280 -> 43:09.280] ac mae'r cynghoriad yn cael ei ddod yn dda
[43:09.280 -> 43:11.280] ac rydyn ni'n dechrau cael ychydig o hwyl.
[43:11.280 -> 43:13.280] Ac rydw i'n ei ddweud, Andrew,
[43:13.280 -> 43:15.280] gan weithio mewn y math o amgylcheddau hynny,
[43:15.280 -> 43:17.280] rwy'n credu bod yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ofyn
[43:17.280 -> 43:19.280] yn ymdrechu'n gyffredin iawn
[43:19.280 -> 43:21.280] i'r broblem sydd mor cyffredin.
[43:21.280 -> 43:23.280] Ond yr hyn rydw i'n ddiddorol yw,
[43:23.280 -> 43:25.600] er mwyn i chi gyrraedd eich ystafell ddwylo,
[43:25.600 -> 43:29.840] beth yw'r cyfrifoldebau y byddwch chi eisiau o'r rhain o'r tîm Caerys,
[43:29.840 -> 43:36.960] felly pan fyddwch chi'n eu cyflwyno ac ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r ffynonellion a'r diwylliant sy'n dod o hynny,
[43:36.960 -> 43:49.280] beth yw'r cyfeirfyrwyr neu'r cyfeirfyrwyr y byddwch chi'n ei ddemarnu o unrhyw un sy'n gynrychioli eich busnes chi? the characteristics that you demand from anyone that now represents your business? We start by only hiring good people and that's really difficult to know
[43:49.280 -> 43:53.040] because especially at the minute you're gonna get on a couple of zoom calls and
[43:53.040 -> 43:56.240] you don't get the chance to go and get a coffee with someone spend an afternoon
[43:56.240 -> 44:00.300] with someone but for us whatever they can they can execute whatever their
[44:00.300 -> 44:03.760] skill set is that's all that's all great that's all really important of course
[44:03.760 -> 44:08.640] but whether they're good people and whenever whenever occasionally we need to call someone at the
[44:08.640 -> 44:12.640] weekend get something done at the weekend or or you know we've got a big project that needs to
[44:12.640 -> 44:16.960] be completed for a certain date whenever they're good people we know that we can rely on them we
[44:16.960 -> 44:22.240] treat them well but that's quite a subjective phrase so what is a good person in your definition
[44:22.240 -> 44:26.560] yeah very very difficult to know and know and very difficult to tie that down
[44:26.560 -> 44:29.280] to something more quantifiable.
[44:29.280 -> 44:32.240] I suppose for me, it's someone I'd like to spend time with.
[44:32.240 -> 44:35.800] It's someone who I'd like to invest a bit of trust in
[44:35.800 -> 44:39.480] and invest a bit of, you know, me, my friendship in,
[44:39.480 -> 44:42.400] I suppose, not that you're never gonna be best friends
[44:42.400 -> 44:43.440] with everybody in your team,
[44:43.440 -> 44:47.020] but just people that you like, people you trust,
[44:47.020 -> 44:49.360] people that you enjoy the company of,
[44:49.360 -> 44:52.120] and people that you know you can rely on them.
[44:52.120 -> 44:54.000] I think those are good people.
[44:54.000 -> 44:56.420] And I'm not saying that's necessarily
[44:57.320 -> 45:00.740] always the first criteria, but it's certainly up there.
[45:00.740 -> 45:01.920] It's right up there.
[45:01.920 -> 45:03.240] So in our team at the minute,
[45:03.240 -> 45:08.320] we've got really, really skilled people, people people who are driven people who are motivated all
[45:08.320 -> 45:11.240] really important but good people that you can rely on as well and I think
[45:11.240 -> 45:14.520] combination of all those things is really important. I think that's really
[45:14.520 -> 45:18.640] good stuff and obviously you've come from an elite environment where people
[45:18.640 -> 45:22.320] look at it from the outside and think wow life comes so easy to Andrew Trimble on
[45:22.320 -> 45:26.080] the rugby field and now they might look at this and think, oh, look, he now turns to business
[45:26.080 -> 45:28.000] and it's all a great success.
[45:28.000 -> 45:29.400] It's really important on this podcast
[45:29.400 -> 45:30.240] that we tell the truth
[45:30.240 -> 45:31.740] and we talk about the difficult things
[45:31.740 -> 45:35.160] because I sometimes believe that the hard stuff
[45:35.160 -> 45:36.800] is also the good stuff, right?
[45:36.800 -> 45:38.140] So what are the hard things?
[45:38.140 -> 45:40.120] What are the challenges in setting up a business
[45:40.120 -> 45:41.320] and trying to make it successful
[45:41.320 -> 45:44.360] that you've learned that others can learn from?
[45:44.360 -> 45:47.000] Yeah, it's getting people to buy into your vision.
[45:47.000 -> 45:56.000] And we've had a vision from day one and that's to manage and to nail scheduling,
[45:56.000 -> 46:00.000] communication in sports teams and to allow athletes to thrive
[46:00.000 -> 46:03.000] and be single-minded for the weekend, for their performance,
[46:03.000 -> 46:06.320] get them back to what they do best and just take away anything
[46:06.320 -> 46:08.320] that could get in the way of that.
[46:08.320 -> 46:09.920] But it's maintaining that vision.
[46:09.920 -> 46:13.480] And there are some key aspects and characteristics
[46:13.480 -> 46:16.160] of our product and our business that we want to maintain.
[46:16.160 -> 46:18.460] And there has been times whenever we've had customers
[46:18.460 -> 46:20.260] looking for a different solution
[46:20.260 -> 46:24.400] or something that would potentially compromise our vision.
[46:24.400 -> 46:25.680] And we've had to say no.
[46:25.680 -> 46:27.160] And that's really difficult to do that
[46:27.160 -> 46:28.840] because whenever you're starting out,
[46:28.840 -> 46:30.280] whenever you're a startup,
[46:30.280 -> 46:31.840] you may only have a handful of customers
[46:31.840 -> 46:32.960] and if one of them wants something,
[46:32.960 -> 46:35.160] it's very demanding and it's very difficult to say no.
[46:35.160 -> 46:36.920] But we've got a lot of faith in where we're going,
[46:36.920 -> 46:38.360] we've a lot of faith in the fact
[46:38.360 -> 46:40.480] that what we're delivering is different, is unique,
[46:40.480 -> 46:43.280] is player focused and really has an appreciation
[46:43.280 -> 46:45.040] of how to get the best out of players
[46:45.840 -> 46:50.160] and being single-minded and maintaining that is really important for us. That's the one,
[46:50.160 -> 46:54.320] that's the kind of high level understanding of how difficult it is to get a business,
[46:54.320 -> 46:58.000] a tech business up and running but also there's just all the operational stuff and all the
[46:58.000 -> 47:03.280] difficulties and my business partner has been incredible there and he's kind of brought me
[47:03.280 -> 47:07.720] under his wing and he's just provided a lot of solutions
[47:07.720 -> 47:09.800] to an environment that's totally new to me.
[47:10.000 -> 47:14.800] Not a lot of it's new to him as well, but we're learning together and we're
[47:15.000 -> 47:16.000] as often as possible.
[47:16.000 -> 47:20.080] It's difficult now, obviously, with Covid, but sharing our learning and as much as
[47:20.080 -> 47:23.680] possible, just trying to communicate clearly to each other, to understand that
[47:23.880 -> 47:26.720] we're all we're both in the same boat here together and we're both learning
[47:26.720 -> 47:30.880] together and and hopefully we're learning enough to go to keep going the
[47:30.880 -> 47:35.880] right direction. It seems to me that Kairos helps to create a no excuses
[47:35.880 -> 47:39.800] environment in sports teams because then you've got no excuse I didn't know I was
[47:39.800 -> 47:44.520] supposed to be there no excuse that I was supposed to wear that kit and all
[47:44.520 -> 47:45.680] that so how do you cope
[47:45.680 -> 47:52.000] with people that do make excuses in your world, you know people that maybe are not as committed
[47:52.000 -> 47:57.040] as what you are or what you were as a rugby player and now running your own business, how do you
[47:57.040 -> 48:01.680] handle those kind of issues? In the CM what we're talking about earlier on was communicating and
[48:01.680 -> 48:07.360] communicating clearly and if you can communicate clearly and objectively then there are no excuses
[48:07.360 -> 48:11.040] for the person who hears that. They can only interpret that one way. So I think
[48:11.040 -> 48:14.160] the same is true for any type of communication whether it be scheduling,
[48:14.160 -> 48:19.560] operational, parking arrangement, COVID testing, testing for appointments,
[48:19.560 -> 48:24.240] anything like this. I think if you can be really really clear about that then you
[48:24.240 -> 48:27.520] create no opportunity for someone to have an excuse.
[48:27.720 -> 48:30.080] And there's an accountability there as well.
[48:30.280 -> 48:33.600] One team we're working with came back to us and said, you know what we've
[48:33.800 -> 48:37.600] discovered, actually, because people can trust Kairos, Kairos is going to be up to
[48:37.600 -> 48:41.400] date, it's a live platform, it's going to reflect exactly where the guys could be.
[48:41.600 -> 48:43.240] There's trust in that and it's communicated.
[48:43.440 -> 48:47.880] It's almost like the tech example of the Joe Schmidt thing I was talking about. You
[48:47.880 -> 48:50.800] know you can trust the information that's being presented in Keras because
[48:50.800 -> 48:54.520] you know it's live and you know it's up to date. So the feedback we got from one
[48:54.520 -> 48:58.840] team that we're working with is there's no more lazy questions. Players don't
[48:58.840 -> 49:03.200] ask any lazy questions because players always want that that get out and again
[49:03.200 -> 49:05.520] it's focus and then not having to worry
[49:05.520 -> 49:06.720] about all the operational things.
[49:06.720 -> 49:09.520] It's the, what time's the session tomorrow?
[49:09.520 -> 49:10.640] What time's the bus going again?
[49:10.640 -> 49:12.120] What time's this, that, the other?
[49:12.120 -> 49:14.120] You know, what are we wearing tomorrow?
[49:14.120 -> 49:15.480] Is it blue jerseys or red jerseys?
[49:15.480 -> 49:19.080] Really trivial stuff, but just lazy questions.
[49:19.080 -> 49:20.520] There's an accountability now.
[49:20.520 -> 49:22.400] All the information in Kairos is up to date.
[49:22.400 -> 49:23.240] It's live.
[49:23.240 -> 49:27.200] It reflects where you're supposed to be, what you're supposed to be doing and everybody buys
[49:27.200 -> 49:31.520] into it. We've got massive compliance from teams from that perspective but
[49:31.520 -> 49:34.680] again that was a really interesting way to articulate that. If we're removing
[49:34.680 -> 49:39.400] lazy questions from players, the necessity to ask those lazy questions,
[49:39.400 -> 49:43.480] we're effectively empowering those players more, giving them more buy-in.
[49:43.480 -> 49:46.620] They're driving something, they're not passengers in the football team,
[49:46.620 -> 49:48.340] they're driving something, and that's gonna impact
[49:48.340 -> 49:50.060] their performance at the weekend.
[49:50.060 -> 49:52.900] But then, within, say, like the dressing room at Ulster
[49:52.900 -> 49:57.340] or with Ireland, when people did have excuses,
[49:57.340 -> 49:58.780] having been in that environment,
[49:58.780 -> 50:01.180] there's a couple of ways in which you can address it.
[50:01.180 -> 50:04.700] You can either rip them to shreds with the kind of comments
[50:04.700 -> 50:07.600] that you wouldn't get away with outside of that environment, gallwch ymdrechu, gallwch eitha'i ddod i'r ffyrdd gyda'r math o commentau y byddwch chi ddim yn cael ymlaen gyda'r amgylchedd honno,
[50:07.600 -> 50:11.520] neu gallwch eitha'n gysylltu'n ffodus i'w gysylltu mewn ffordd ffysig
[50:11.520 -> 50:13.920] ar y ffyrdd, fod yr hyn rydyn nhw'n ei wneud ddim yn
[50:13.920 -> 50:18.640] agseptab. Ac mae'r pethau hynny ddim yn mwy agseptab i chi
[50:18.640 -> 50:21.920] yn y byd corporetol, rhai o'r pethau y gallech chi
[50:21.920 -> 50:29.240] wedi dweud ar y ffyrdd ymdrech, dydyn nhw ddim yn agseptabl, byddai'n eich gweld chi mewn tribunaleau gweithredu, corporate world some of the things that you might have said on a training field wouldn't be acceptable they'd see you in employment tribunals or anything like
[50:29.240 -> 50:34.280] that so how do you handle it using those softer skills these days within your own
[50:34.280 -> 50:38.560] business when you see that kind of lazy questions or excuse making creeping in
[50:38.560 -> 50:42.720] yeah it's it's I suppose it's looking at ourselves first and making sure that
[50:42.720 -> 50:46.600] something was communicated clearly and there was no opportunity to
[50:47.320 -> 50:51.620] to wiggle out of something or to have an excuse so that there's then we transfer the
[50:51.760 -> 50:58.260] Accountability under the staff member or whoever it is. We're trying to deliver that to but I think there's there's two things happening in a rugby team
[50:58.260 -> 51:03.820] Anyway, if you make a mistake if you get some detail wrong, or you don't execute correctly on the pitch
[51:03.640 -> 51:08.840] a mistake, if you get some detail wrong or you don't execute correctly on the pitch, it's embarrassing and you know how well rehearsed everybody else is around
[51:08.840 -> 51:12.760] you. You know there's 14 other guys trying to create a situation where then
[51:12.760 -> 51:16.560] I'm under pressure to execute so I can make something work. If I don't execute
[51:16.560 -> 51:20.480] then I'm letting 14 guys down. It's embarrassing. You know if you drop a pass
[51:20.480 -> 51:29.880] or you know select the wrong option or you just haven't done your homework. It's embarrassing but then in the meeting whenever someone says Andrew
[51:29.880 -> 51:33.600] what you did there it doesn't even need to be said it's all I'm already
[51:33.600 -> 51:38.200] embarrassed so everybody around knows that I cocked up and I made a mistake. If
[51:38.200 -> 51:42.280] someone says it it's it's kind of like okay what you're saying is obvious. I
[51:42.280 -> 51:45.440] think Joe I'm trying to think of the example of Joe Schmidt.
[51:45.440 -> 51:47.120] He may have said it, he might not have.
[51:47.120 -> 51:48.800] I think he knows, whether he says it or not,
[51:48.800 -> 51:51.760] everybody knows the impact of what I've done.
[51:51.760 -> 51:55.440] So I think it's just, if you create an environment
[51:55.440 -> 51:56.880] where there are no excuses,
[51:57.520 -> 52:00.000] whether you draw everybody's attention to that or not,
[52:00.000 -> 52:02.080] everybody knows someone's let themselves down
[52:02.080 -> 52:02.960] and let the team down
[52:02.960 -> 52:05.840] and that's a difficult environment to be in and if they've done it
[52:05.840 -> 52:07.560] Once and they've been embarrassed
[52:07.560 -> 52:12.600] They're not likely to do it again. So I think that's how you create that that accountability and I'm gonna execute my rule
[52:12.600 -> 52:15.440] I'm relying on you to execute yours really good
[52:15.440 -> 52:21.440] Oh, it's been such an interesting conversation and it's absolutely clear to us that all those years that you thought you were playing rugby
[52:21.440 -> 52:24.920] You were just learning all the skills to take into business. Well, yeah
[52:23.240 -> 52:24.920] years that you thought you were playing rugby, you were just learning all the skills to take into business, weren't you?
[52:25.880 -> 52:26.400] That's what happened.
[52:26.400 -> 52:26.640] Yeah.
[52:26.960 -> 52:29.600] You definitely, you definitely wouldn't have said that if you'd seen me three
[52:29.600 -> 52:30.800] years ago, when I was starting out.
[52:31.680 -> 52:35.040] I saw a, I saw a nice quote from you actually saying that in 2019, you'd
[52:35.040 -> 52:38.360] rather be building a business than playing at the rugby world cup.
[52:39.040 -> 52:42.000] I just want to finish on that because that's, that was a really enlightening
[52:42.000 -> 52:44.440] thing for me, because that was your dream for me in a small boy.
[52:44.440 -> 52:48.800] That's the dream of millions of people to be a, an international rugby player. What did you mean by that?
[52:49.000 -> 52:55.360] You can't do it forever. I loved it. Absolutely loved my experience as a professional rugby player
[52:55.560 -> 52:57.880] Getting to go on tour with Ireland play at World Cups
[52:57.880 -> 53:03.360] And we went to one of my best memories in an Ireland jersey is beating New Zealand in Chicago
[53:03.880 -> 53:05.400] In 2016 an incredible experience. No Irish team had ever done that before memories in an Ireland jersey is beating New Zealand in Chicago in 2016. An
[53:05.400 -> 53:09.120] incredible experience no Irish team had ever done that before no Irish team had
[53:09.120 -> 53:13.760] ever gone to South Africa and beat South Africa and it was amazing to be a part
[53:13.760 -> 53:18.480] of that but I think after I'd done that for 12 years that chapter of my life
[53:18.480 -> 53:24.160] closed and now commentating at games you know getting to experience you know be
[53:24.160 -> 53:26.120] part of match night is great,
[53:26.120 -> 53:27.880] but I look at what they're doing.
[53:28.920 -> 53:31.120] There was one night I was standing with Stevie Ferris
[53:31.120 -> 53:33.720] and we were standing in the in goal area
[53:33.720 -> 53:35.280] and guys were warming up behind us,
[53:35.280 -> 53:38.280] smashing into each other with pads and just,
[53:38.280 -> 53:40.720] I just looked at it and it was wet, cold night
[53:40.720 -> 53:44.440] and I just went, I would hate to be still doing that.
[53:44.440 -> 53:45.120] I'm enjoying what I be still doing that I'm
[53:45.120 -> 53:46.560] I'm enjoying what i'm doing now
[53:46.560 -> 53:50.400] I'm, really motivated really excited about what we're doing now and it's a new challenge
[53:50.800 -> 53:55.440] And for me, I loved it while I was there, but I can't hold on to that forever
[53:55.600 -> 54:00.400] Got to move on and be excited about something different and i'm really enjoying the challenge that i'm doing at the minute
[54:00.560 -> 54:09.440] It's brilliant. Listen, we always finish as you know, cause you listen to the pod with quick fire questions. So what are your three non-negotiable behaviors that
[54:09.440 -> 54:16.640] you and the people around you have to buy into? Always be on time, always be reliable
[54:16.640 -> 54:21.600] and always do what you say you're going to do. What advice would you give to a teenage
[54:21.600 -> 54:29.120] Andrew just starting out on your journey? I would say identify what you're good at, maybe spend some time with someone else who knows you
[54:29.120 -> 54:33.600] well, who's able to identify what you're good at, what you're passionate about and go after that
[54:33.600 -> 54:39.200] and don't be influenced by other people or what people think. I would say go after what you're
[54:39.200 -> 54:44.080] passionate about and what you're good at and don't let anything else get in the way.
[54:44.800 -> 54:45.000] How important is legacy to you? what you're good at and don't let anything else get in the way.
[54:45.000 -> 54:47.880] How important is legacy to you?
[54:47.880 -> 54:50.520] Legacy is really important for my teammates.
[54:50.520 -> 54:55.200] I always wanted my teammates to be proud of me and whether that be teammates in the rugby
[54:55.200 -> 55:01.880] pitch or teammates in Keros, for me they're the guys who know more about what the process
[55:01.880 -> 55:05.720] was like so they're the guys who I'm more interested in creating a legacy with.
[55:05.720 -> 55:06.560] Nice.
[55:06.560 -> 55:08.920] And finally, Andrew, what's your one golden rule
[55:08.920 -> 55:10.880] to live a high performance life?
[55:10.880 -> 55:12.400] A perspective.
[55:12.400 -> 55:16.720] I had focus and single-mindedness when I was playing rugby,
[55:16.720 -> 55:19.200] but my perspective allowed me to transition out of that.
[55:19.200 -> 55:22.640] And also my perspective allowed me to spend important time
[55:22.640 -> 55:25.200] with family, friends, kids,
[55:25.200 -> 55:27.120] and just make sure that I value that time as well.
[55:27.120 -> 55:29.640] So yes, be as single-minded as you can,
[55:29.640 -> 55:31.520] but also remember the things that are important.
[55:31.520 -> 55:33.480] I think that's a brilliant answer.
[55:33.480 -> 55:35.120] And it's a brilliant way to finish as well, Andrew.
[55:35.120 -> 55:37.060] I think, you know, sitting and having this conversation,
[55:37.060 -> 55:40.400] it's clear that you've adopted the right mindset
[55:40.400 -> 55:41.220] at the right time.
[55:41.220 -> 55:42.720] And effectively, you've kind of grown up.
[55:42.720 -> 55:44.120] You know, you had to be single-minded.
[55:44.120 -> 55:45.920] It had to be all about rugby, but then it had to be single-minded, it had to be all about rugby,
[55:45.920 -> 55:47.600] but then it had to be all about family,
[55:47.600 -> 55:49.480] it had to be being brave and leaving
[55:49.480 -> 55:51.400] and going and setting up a business
[55:51.400 -> 55:52.760] and working your way through that
[55:52.760 -> 55:54.320] and discovering as you went.
[55:54.320 -> 55:56.140] I just really think it's fantastic
[55:56.140 -> 55:58.280] that you got to the point where you were happy
[55:58.280 -> 55:59.580] to make that next transition
[55:59.580 -> 56:01.480] from rugby player to businessman.
[56:01.480 -> 56:03.840] And I wish you all the very best,
[56:03.840 -> 56:05.080] I think it's going to be a success.
[56:05.080 -> 56:06.000] Thanks very much fellas.
[56:06.000 -> 56:08.040] Really, really good to get on and get a chat with you.
[56:08.040 -> 56:09.320] I really enjoyed that.
[56:09.320 -> 56:10.160] Oh, thank you.
[56:10.160 -> 56:10.980] Top man.
[56:10.980 -> 56:11.820] Thanks so much.
[56:11.820 -> 56:12.660] Cheers fellas.
[56:14.040 -> 56:15.080] Damien.
[56:15.080 -> 56:16.200] Jake.
[56:16.200 -> 56:19.000] I think Andrew is a really sort of interesting character.
[56:19.000 -> 56:22.040] He seems so at ease with the fact that he is no longer
[56:22.040 -> 56:22.880] a rugby player.
[56:22.880 -> 56:25.520] And I would imagine a lot of professional, former professional sports people will listen to that conversation and probably feel a bit jealous y bydd yn ymdrech ar y ffaith nad yw'n fwyaf yn chwaraewr rugby. Ac rydw i'n meddwl bod llawer o bobl chwaraewr
[56:25.520 -> 56:28.120] bydd yn clywed y sgwrs hwnnw
[56:28.120 -> 56:29.640] ac yn eithaf arhau, mewn gwirionedd,
[56:29.640 -> 56:32.000] o'r ffordd mae e'n ymwneud â bywyd.
[56:32.000 -> 56:33.000] Iawn, yn siŵr.
[56:33.000 -> 56:34.320] Rwy'n credu bod e'n ddiddorol iawn
[56:34.320 -> 56:36.120] pan fyddwch chi'n gweld pêl-chwaraewr gynhyrchu,
[56:36.120 -> 56:37.120] pan fyddwch chi'n deall
[56:37.120 -> 56:38.480] sut mae'n cymryd eu cymryd.
[56:38.480 -> 56:40.600] Yn ystod cyfnod o ddangos cyfnodau cymdeithasol
[56:40.600 -> 56:41.440] a phethau fel hynny,
[56:41.440 -> 56:42.640] a'r rhai sydd,
[56:42.640 -> 56:43.960] efallai, yn 20 mlynedd ddiweddar
[56:43.960 -> 56:44.720] wedi'u hymdrechu,
[56:44.720 -> 56:50.240] yn ymdrechu'n eu hunain drwy'r hyn y gafodd rhai sydd eisoes, efallai 20 mlynedd ar ôl eu cymryd, yn ddefnyddio eu hunain drwy beth y gynnal nhw yn eu 20au a 30au, ac mae'n ofalus i mi fod
[56:50.240 -> 56:56.480] eu bod nhw'n ymdrech i ddefnyddio'r person y maen nhw ar nawr gyda phobl sydd yn eu 20au,
[56:56.480 -> 57:02.880] ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn gyfnod ddysgwyr o rywun sy'n cymryd ymdrech yn dda iawn gan ddefnyddio
[57:02.880 -> 57:11.360] rôl newydd y dywedodd ei fod yn arwain arno. Mae'n arw arwainydd cyfnodol ac yn gyfranogwr busnes, yn ymdrechol ag yr Iwerddon yn byw yn y byd cymdeithasol.
[57:11.360 -> 57:12.840] Ac mae'n golygu da, nid yw?
[57:12.840 -> 57:15.480] Efallai y byddwn yn un peth a'n un diwrnod ar un arall,
[57:15.480 -> 57:18.560] ond nid yw unrhyw beth fel diwrnod ddau i ddysgu.
[57:18.560 -> 57:20.960] Bob diwrnod, oherwydd yw'n diwrnodau dau neu ddau ddau ddau,
[57:20.960 -> 57:23.000] diwrnodau cyflawn a ddau dau dau,
[57:23.000 -> 57:47.000] maen nhw'n mynd i'w ddysgu pethau y byddwn yn eu defny ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n ddau'n credu y byddai'n dweud, y gwnaethon nhw'n ymdrechu arno, yn hytrach na'i ymdrechu arno, neu'n cyflawni bod yna ddifrif arwain.
[57:47.000 -> 57:51.000] Mae wedyn wedi'i defnyddio fel cyfle dysgu i ddweud, sut i i'w gydnabod y broblem honno?
[57:51.000 -> 57:56.000] Ac rwy'n credu, rydyn ni'n iawn, gallwn ddysgu o bob profiad, bob cyfle, iawn neu'n ddwr.
[57:56.000 -> 58:00.000] Ac dyna'r hyn rwy'n meddwl oedd yn ffasifol yn mynd i'w gwrando.
[58:07.100 -> 58:11.660] It was great to be joined by Andrew Trimble on this episode. If you really enjoyed what you heard today, then please go back and take a look through all of our previous conversations.
[58:11.660 -> 58:15.560] If rugby is your thing, you'll find Johnny Wilkinson, you'll find Eddie Jones, you'll
[58:15.560 -> 58:20.540] find Dan Carter, you'll find Dylan Hartley. We've spoken to the great and the good of
[58:20.540 -> 58:25.640] the rugby world, including Sio Koulissi, the first ever black Springbok to lift
[58:25.640 -> 58:28.960] the World Cup. The conversations are all incredible so feel free to find those
[58:28.960 -> 58:31.760] but the great thing about high performance is that it's such an
[58:31.760 -> 58:36.280] eclectic mix so you'll be listening to a rugby player one day, an inspirational
[58:36.280 -> 58:39.800] motivational speaker the next, a business leader the following day and then a
[58:39.800 -> 58:45.880] musician and it's just, I don't know, it's just a reminder isn't it that as you go
[58:45.880 -> 58:50.700] through life every single person has something that you can learn from so if
[58:50.700 -> 58:54.200] you just ask a question of everyone you meet and you approach everyone with
[58:54.200 -> 58:59.000] empathy rather than opinion then you'll go a long way in life and before we sign
[58:59.000 -> 59:02.080] off and say goodbye just a quick mention of the episode where we spoke with John
[59:02.080 -> 59:06.160] McAvoy a man who was previously one of the most mwyaf eisiau yw'r wlad
[59:06.160 -> 59:08.640] ac mae wedi dod yn ôl i fod yn triathlet o fyd.
[59:08.640 -> 59:15.040] Rydw i'n sôn am y podcast hwn am myfyrwyr sy'n ymwneud â phethau sydd gen i'r ymdrechion,
[59:15.040 -> 59:18.640] 15, 20 oed, ond roeddent yn ffuriol ar y pryd.
[59:18.640 -> 59:21.920] A gallaf ddweud diolch i'r holl bobl sydd wedi cyflawni ar Instagram
[59:21.920 -> 59:28.240] i ddweud i mi bod ganddyn nhw hefyd y pethau straffol sy'n eu gwreiddio nhw, So many people that have got in touch on Instagram to tell me that they too have these Strange thoughts that panic them or worry them and they think they're abnormal and they think that no one else has these things
[59:28.520 -> 59:33.960] Whatever it is that kind of fear of basically doing something mad like you are definitely not on your own
[59:33.960 -> 59:41.920] They definitely are common and Ian sent me a message to say I have intrusive thoughts and recognize the themes which are usually fear-based
[59:41.920 -> 59:42.940] It's great to let them go
[59:42.940 -> 59:48.240] I find headspace is a helpful app for imagining a thought going on in one ear across the stage of my brain
[59:48.240 -> 59:52.320] and out the other side. And another tool, cross-check this with the professor before
[59:52.320 -> 59:58.940] taking my uneducated advice he says, but the word he uses is rule. Is a thought realistic?
[59:58.940 -> 01:00:03.240] Is it useful? Is it logical and is there evidence? So if you find that you're having these kind
[01:00:03.240 -> 01:00:05.700] of strange thoughts and they worry you, just ask yourself, is it realistic?
[01:00:05.700 -> 01:00:06.700] Is that really going to happen?
[01:00:06.700 -> 01:00:07.700] Probably not.
[01:00:07.700 -> 01:00:09.100] Is the thought useful?
[01:00:09.100 -> 01:00:10.600] Almost definitely not.
[01:00:10.600 -> 01:00:11.900] Is it logical?
[01:00:11.900 -> 01:00:12.700] That's unlikely.
[01:00:12.700 -> 01:00:14.800] And is there evidence for it?
[01:00:14.800 -> 01:00:16.600] There almost never is.
[01:00:16.600 -> 01:00:17.600] So it's a trick.
[01:00:17.600 -> 01:00:19.000] It's your brain playing a trick.
[01:00:19.000 -> 01:00:22.100] So wherever you are, whatever you're up to this week,
[01:00:22.100 -> 01:00:27.660] if you find that, you know, these sort of strange intrusive thoughts is something that bothers you maybe Ian's um advice
[01:00:27.660 -> 01:00:31.100] is helpful and let me just tell you there are hundreds of people that have
[01:00:31.100 -> 01:00:33.860] got in touch with me to say they have a similar thing and that you're not on
[01:00:33.860 -> 01:00:37.500] your own it actually is really common so yeah I hope that helps and that's it
[01:00:37.500 -> 01:00:41.060] from today's episode huge thanks as always to Finn Ryan at rethink audio for
[01:00:41.060 -> 01:00:45.680] his hard work making the podcast sound amazing to to Eve, to Will, to Hannah,
[01:00:45.680 -> 01:00:49.360] the entire team behind the scenes on the High Performance Podcast, of course Professor Damien
[01:00:49.360 -> 01:00:53.360] Hughes, without whom these conversations wouldn't be anything like as rich and as deep and as
[01:00:53.360 -> 01:00:57.520] rewarding, but most of all thanks to you. For more from the podcast check out the
[01:00:57.520 -> 01:01:03.600] highperformancepodcast.com, but please remember there is no secret, it is all there for you,
[01:01:03.600 -> 01:01:05.400] you must be your own biggest cheerleader
[01:01:05.400 -> 01:01:08.400] and make world-class basics your calling card
[01:01:08.400 -> 01:01:09.680] because you know what?
[01:01:09.680 -> 01:01:11.280] You deserve it.
[01:01:11.280 -> 01:01:12.480] See you next time.
[01:01:12.480 -> 01:01:48.440] ♪♪♪ Hi, my name is Kelly Rizzo, and this is Comfort Food.
[01:01:48.440 -> 01:01:49.480] Now, some of you may know me
[01:01:49.480 -> 01:01:52.040] because I've always loved sharing my passion
[01:01:52.040 -> 01:01:54.440] for food, travel, and music with people,
[01:01:54.440 -> 01:01:56.520] but in January of 2022,
[01:01:56.520 -> 01:01:59.720] my entire world came screeching to a halt.
[01:01:59.720 -> 01:02:02.080] I lost my husband, Bob Saget,
[01:02:02.080 -> 01:02:06.320] and although it was the worst time of my entire life, strangely enough
[01:02:06.320 -> 01:02:10.800] the conversations that I was having with my friends and family were some of the best. Most of
[01:02:10.800 -> 01:02:15.920] the time these conversations were being had over some great food. I'll sit down with old and new
[01:02:15.920 -> 01:02:21.280] friends and talk about death, loss, or just life and the food that got us through it. Comfort Food
[01:02:21.280 -> 01:02:28.720] is brought to you by Wheelhouse DNA and Acast. New episodes will be released every Sunday. Check them out wherever you like to listen. Hope to see
[01:02:28.720 -> 01:02:30.760] you there.
[01:02:30.760 -> 01:02:39.800] Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
[01:02:36.350 -> 01:02:38.410] you