E78 - Paul McGinley: It’s not about being the best player in the team, but being the best team player.

Paul has been a European Tour golfer now for over 25 years. Despite winning several tournaments and being a former top 20 ranked player in the world, he is best known for his performances in team competitions, especially the Ryder Cup. He has represented Europe on 14 occasions as a player, Vice-Captain & Captain, winning an astonishing 13 times, most memorably in 2014 where he led Europe to a comprehensive victory over America at Gleneagles in Scotland as Captain.

This led to many awards including being voted Coach of the year at the BBC Sports Personality of the Year in 2014 and being made an Executive Fellow at London Business School, the first sportsman ever awarded this honour. 

Paul's book, 'Landscape of Success', is out now. For a copy - please message Paul on Twitter @mcginleygolf

**

You can still get your hands on signed copies of our new book, High Performance: Lessons from the best on becoming your best, right here: https://bit.ly/3xQwAsL 

We have brand new content up in our FREE members club THE HIGH PERFORMANCE CIRCLE! On the Circle this month:

* Exclusive Podcast with Chrissie Wellington - 4 x Ironman World Champion and Global Lead for Health & Wellbeing for parkrun.

* Keynote with former England Rugby Sevens captain Ollie Phillips

* High Performance Boosts with British Wheelchair Tennis Champion and Paralympic medal winner Jordanne Whiley MBE, Olympic Gold medal winning rower Ben Hunt-Davis and adventurer Levison Wood.

Go to www.thehighperformancepodcast.com 

A big thanks to our founding partners Lotus Cars for their continued support. Look out for our Jenson Button podcast from Goodwood Festival of Speed coming next week! Thanks also to GIVEMESPORT - the exclusive sports partner of the High Performance Podcast. To gain further access to editorial and social content from the Podcast click here https://www.givemesport.com/podcast

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**Key Insights and Takeaways from the Podcast Episode with Paul McGinley:**

1. **Resilience in the Face of Failure:**
- Paul McGinley highlights the importance of resilience in the face of failure, drawing from his experience as a professional golfer where he spent 90% of his time losing.
- He emphasizes that managing loss and maintaining resilience are crucial for success in a sport where victories are infrequent.

2. **Individuality Within Team Success:**
- McGinley challenges the conventional wisdom of prioritizing team cohesion over individual performance.
- He believes that successful teams are built on the foundation of strong individual performances and that focusing on the team can sometimes be overrated.
- As a Ryder Cup captain, he aimed to keep players as individuals rather than molding them into a single unit.

3. **Communication and Building Relationships:**
- McGinley stresses the significance of communication and building strong relationships with team members.
- He emphasizes the need to understand players intimately as individuals, beyond their golfing skills, to effectively manage and motivate them.
- Establishing trust and rapport with players is crucial for creating a positive team environment.

4. **Adapting Leadership Styles to Different Personalities:**
- McGinley demonstrates his ability to adapt his leadership style to cater to the unique personalities and needs of individual players.
- He shares an example of how he managed the pairing of Victor Dubuisson and Graeme McDowell, considering their different personalities and skill sets to create a successful partnership.

5. **Visual Imagery and Inspiration:**
- McGinley emphasizes the power of visual imagery and inspiration in motivating and focusing players.
- He discusses the impact of seeing oneself achieving success and how it can create a positive mindset and drive performance.
- Visualizing success can help athletes overcome self-doubt and perform at their best.

6. **Managing Self-Doubt:**
- McGinley addresses the common challenge of self-doubt among athletes and provides strategies for overcoming it.
- He highlights the importance of focusing on the process rather than the outcome and avoiding comparisons with others.
- Embracing a growth mindset and seeking continuous improvement can help athletes overcome self-doubt and achieve their full potential.

7. **Balancing Individual and Team Goals:**
- McGinley discusses the delicate balance between individual and team goals, particularly in a sport like golf where players compete as individuals but also represent a team.
- He emphasizes the need for players to prioritize the team's success while still pursuing their individual ambitions.
- Finding the right balance between these competing interests is crucial for achieving both individual and collective achievements.

# High Performance Podcast Episode Summary

### Overview
* Paul McGinley, a former European Tour golfer and Ryder Cup captain, shares his insights on leadership, team dynamics, and the art of managing high-performing individuals.
* McGinley emphasizes the importance of simplicity, clarity, and creating a strong team environment to achieve success.

### Key Insights

* **Balance Between Science and Art:**
* McGinley employed a data team to analyze player statistics and identify patterns for strategic decision-making.
* However, he emphasized the importance of using data as a tool rather than relying solely on it.
* He believes that intuition and understanding the dynamics of the team are crucial for effective leadership.

* **Simplicity and Clarity:**
* McGinley prioritized simplicity and clarity in his communication with players.
* He kept team meetings concise and focused on delivering key messages.
* He avoided overwhelming players with excessive information and tailored his communication to resonate with each individual.

* **Individual Over Team:**
* McGinley respected the individual strengths and weaknesses of his players.
* He empowered his caddies to make decisions on the golf course, trusting their expertise and rapport with the players.
* He believed that preserving the player-caddie dynamic was essential for maintaining peak performance.

* **Breaking the Mold:**
* McGinley challenged traditional norms by becoming a Ryder Cup captain without a major win or superstar status.
* He gained credibility by establishing personal relationships with players and delivering effective press conferences.
* He emphasized the importance of fostering trust and empowering players to take ownership of their roles.

* **Learning from Sir Alex Ferguson:**
* McGinley sought advice from Sir Alex Ferguson, a legendary soccer manager, to learn about managing high-performing individuals.
* Ferguson emphasized the importance of empowering players and involving them in decision-making.
* He encouraged McGinley to trust his instincts and tailor his leadership approach to suit the specific needs of his team.

* **Managing Superstars:**
* McGinley believed that managing superstars required understanding their unique needs and involving them in the decision-making process.
* He sought their input and feedback to create a sense of ownership and buy-in.
* He avoided authoritarian approaches and instead focused on creating a unified and collaborative environment.

* **Delivering Bad News:**
* McGinley emphasized the importance of delivering bad news with empathy and clarity.
* He paired bad news with positive messages to maintain player morale.
* He provided clear explanations and offered solutions to help players overcome challenges.

* **Expectation and Mindset:**
* McGinley discussed the challenges of managing expectations, especially when a team is favored to win.
* He drew inspiration from Sir Alex Ferguson's approach of redirecting mindsets to focus on the pursuit of excellence rather than defending past achievements.
* He believed that creating a hunter mentality, where the team is constantly striving for improvement, is essential for sustained success.

* **Creating an Inspiring Environment:**
* McGinley invested in creating a visually stimulating and inspiring team environment.
* He used powerful imagery and symbolism to represent the team's challenges and goals.
* He believed that creating a platform for inspiration and motivation helped elevate team performance.

### Conclusion
Paul McGinley's leadership philosophy emphasizes simplicity, clarity, and empowering individuals to achieve peak performance. He believes that creating a strong team environment, fostering trust, and understanding the dynamics of the team are crucial for success. McGinley's insights provide valuable lessons for leaders in various fields, highlighting the importance of balancing data and intuition, managing expectations, and creating an inspiring environment to unlock the full potential of high-performing individuals.

Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode:


**Introduction**

- The podcast features Paul McGinley, a European Tour golfer and former Ryder Cup captain.
- McGinley discusses his experiences as a player and captain, as well as his insights on leadership, team dynamics, and success.


**Key Points**

- **Creating a Positive Team Culture:**
- As captain of the European Ryder Cup team, McGinley focused on creating a positive and supportive atmosphere.
- He emphasized the importance of fun and camaraderie among the players, believing that this would foster a sense of unity and purpose.


- **Empowering Players:**
- McGinley gave his players a great deal of autonomy and responsibility.
- He believed that this empowered them to perform at their best and make their own decisions on the course.


- **Setting Clear Goals and Expectations:**
- McGinley set clear goals and expectations for his team.
- He communicated these goals effectively and ensured that everyone was on the same page.


- **Focusing on the Big Things:**
- McGinley emphasized the importance of focusing on the big things and not getting caught up in the small details.
- He believed that this allowed his players to stay focused and avoid overthinking their shots.


- **Leading by Example:**
- McGinley led by example, both on and off the course.
- He was always willing to put in the hard work and set a positive example for his players.


- **Adapting to Different Situations:**
- McGinley was able to adapt his leadership style to different situations.
- He recognized that different players required different approaches and was able to adjust his style accordingly.


- **Building Trust:**
- McGinley built trust with his players by being honest and transparent with them.
- He also made himself available to them and was always willing to listen to their concerns.


- **Celebrating Success:**
- McGinley celebrated the team's successes, both big and small.
- He believed that this helped to motivate the players and keep them focused on their goals.


- **Learning from Mistakes:**
- McGinley was not afraid to admit his mistakes and learn from them.
- He believed that this was an important part of the learning process and helped him to become a better leader.


**Conclusion**

- McGinley's leadership style was based on creating a positive and supportive team culture, empowering players, setting clear goals and expectations, focusing on the big things, leading by example, adapting to different situations, building trust, celebrating success, and learning from mistakes.
- His approach proved to be successful, as he led the European team to victory in the Ryder Cup in 2014.

# The High-Performance Podcast: Episode Transcript Summary

---
**Guest: Paul McGinley**

---

### Introduction:

* Paul McGinley, a European Tour golfer for over 25 years, discusses his esteemed career, including winning several tournaments, being ranked among the world's top 20 players, and his exceptional performances in team competitions, particularly the Ryder Cup.
* McGinley represented Europe on 14 occasions as a player, Vice-Captain, and Captain, leading the team to a comprehensive victory over the United States at Gleneagles in Scotland in 2014.
* His accomplishments earned him various accolades, including being voted Coach of the Year at the BBC Sports Personality of the Year in 2014 and being made an Executive Fellow at London Business School, a first for a sportsman.

---

### Key Points:

* **Empowering, Not Overpowering:**
* McGinley emphasizes the significance of empowering people rather than overpowering them, highlighting the importance of fostering a sense of ownership and responsibility among team members.
* He believes that empowering others leads to greater success and fulfillment, as individuals feel valued and motivated to contribute their best.

* **Guided Discovery:**
* McGinley advocates for the technique of guided discovery, where leaders pose questions to their players or children, allowing them to work towards finding the correct answer independently.
* This approach promotes critical thinking, problem-solving skills, and a sense of accomplishment when the individuals discover the solution on their own.

* **Focusing on the Journey:**
* McGinley stresses the importance of enjoying the journey and the process of pursuing goals, rather than solely concentrating on the outcomes.
* He encourages individuals to appreciate the experiences, challenges, and lessons learned along the way, recognizing that the journey itself can be as rewarding as achieving the desired outcome.

* **Celebrating Wins and Learning from Losses:**
* McGinley emphasizes the significance of acknowledging and celebrating victories, regardless of their magnitude.
* He also encourages individuals to embrace failures and setbacks as opportunities for growth and learning, viewing them as stepping stones towards eventual success.

* **The Importance of Perspective:**
* McGinley highlights the value of perspective and the ability to see things from different angles.
* He encourages individuals to consider multiple perspectives, including those of their opponents or competitors, to gain a broader understanding and make informed decisions.

* **Creating a Legacy:**
* McGinley reflects on the importance of leaving a legacy and making a positive impact on others.
* He discusses the enduring impact of the 2014 Ryder Cup victory and the significance of creating memories and experiences that will be cherished by future generations.

* **Finding Your Passion and Following Your Dreams:**
* McGinley emphasizes the importance of identifying and pursuing one's passion, believing that it is the key to unlocking true potential and achieving fulfillment.
* He encourages individuals to follow their dreams and aspirations, regardless of the challenges or obstacles they may encounter along the way.

---

### Conclusion:

Paul McGinley shares valuable insights and experiences from his remarkable career, emphasizing the significance of empowerment, perspective, and following one's passion. He inspires listeners to embrace the journey, learn from both successes and failures, and strive to make a positive impact on the world.

[00:00.000 -> 00:07.000] Don't judge each day by the harvest that you reap, but by the seeds you plant.
[00:07.000 -> 00:12.480] Hi there, welcome along to a brand new episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[00:12.480 -> 00:16.240] I thought I'd start with that quote from Robert Louis Stevenson.
[00:16.240 -> 00:23.160] Don't judge each day by the harvests you reap, but by the seeds you plant.
[00:23.160 -> 00:26.440] And it might not seem it right now but trust me just
[00:26.440 -> 00:30.960] by sitting down and listening to this podcast whether you're walking the dog
[00:30.960 -> 00:34.580] whether you're driving to work whether you're sharing it with your mates or
[00:34.580 -> 00:38.440] you having a bit of quiet time just by tuning into the high-performance podcast
[00:38.440 -> 00:44.160] you are planting seeds seeds to grow seeds to improve seeds to learn and
[00:44.160 -> 00:46.080] today you're going to
[00:46.080 -> 00:51.120] be doing so in the company of one of the most inspiring sports people and coaches
[00:51.120 -> 00:56.160] that I've ever sat down and spoken to today's episode is with golfer Paul
[00:56.160 -> 01:03.240] McGinley now that's a great place and talk to any really elite athlete that's
[01:03.240 -> 01:08.520] when you perform your best when you almost't care, you're so caught up in the moment of doing what you need to
[01:08.520 -> 01:14.800] do that you're not result oriented, you are performance oriented.
[01:14.800 -> 01:17.960] I've got a fire lit inside me from a young boy.
[01:17.960 -> 01:19.400] I didn't know what I was going to be.
[01:19.400 -> 01:23.320] I didn't know I was going to be a Gaelic footballer, I didn't know I was going to be a businessman,
[01:23.320 -> 01:26.000] and I certainly didn't know I was going to be a golfer. But I had a fire inside me.
[01:26.000 -> 01:30.000] And that's the greatest gift that God has ever given me, that fire.
[01:30.000 -> 01:32.000] I saw my job as a captain.
[01:32.000 -> 01:34.000] Give clarity, give simplicity,
[01:34.000 -> 01:38.000] create a really strong environment,
[01:38.000 -> 01:41.000] inspire them, and then get the hell out of the way.
[01:41.000 -> 01:43.000] Rory's the best player in the world.
[01:43.000 -> 01:46.380] He'd won two major championships that year him and his caddy
[01:46.380 -> 01:50.460] It obviously made brilliant decisions to do that. Why do I want to contaminate that dynamic?
[01:50.720 -> 01:56.160] So I kept out of the way. This is a real conversation today about leadership. And if you're sitting there thinking
[01:56.680 -> 02:01.460] Paul McGinley a golfer. Yeah, I can't have heard of him, but I really want to listen to a sports podcast
[02:01.460 -> 02:04.440] Please trust me. This is not a conversation about sport
[02:03.300 -> 02:08.940] want to listen to a sports podcast, please trust me, this is not a conversation about sport. This is without doubt a conversation about life and Paul
[02:08.940 -> 02:12.000] has actually created a book, I guess about life as well really, it's called
[02:12.000 -> 02:16.320] Landscapes of Success and it's all the things that he's learned in an entire
[02:16.320 -> 02:20.360] lifetime competing at the very top level and there's a bit I just wanted to share
[02:20.360 -> 02:24.200] with you before we get into the podcast because in the book he talks about the
[02:24.200 -> 02:25.880] inspiration of the visual.
[02:25.880 -> 02:27.640] He has learned throughout his career
[02:27.640 -> 02:30.400] how important it is to use images
[02:30.400 -> 02:31.880] to instill the right emotions
[02:31.880 -> 02:33.300] in the players that he's coaching
[02:33.300 -> 02:35.360] or the players that he's playing alongside.
[02:35.360 -> 02:37.800] And there's a bit of information in the book
[02:37.800 -> 02:40.880] that says three days after hearing some information,
[02:40.880 -> 02:42.600] 10% of people retain it.
[02:43.480 -> 02:45.800] Three days after hearing that same information
[02:46.480 -> 02:49.520] Accompanied by an image that stirs them emotionally
[02:50.780 -> 02:55.380] 65% of people retain that information which means seeing
[02:55.840 -> 02:57.760] visual images is
[02:57.760 -> 03:01.720] Hugely hugely important and for you that's never been more relevant
[03:02.040 -> 03:07.040] Because I bet you spend your life looking at visual images. And I'm not just talking about knowing instantly
[03:07.040 -> 03:09.040] what brand someone's trainers are
[03:09.040 -> 03:11.080] because of the stripes on it, or the flash on it,
[03:11.080 -> 03:13.520] or as you drive past some golden arches,
[03:13.520 -> 03:14.960] as you're heading down the motorway,
[03:14.960 -> 03:16.920] or you see certain colors and you can attach them
[03:16.920 -> 03:18.080] to a brand.
[03:18.080 -> 03:20.720] I'm talking about the kind of images
[03:20.720 -> 03:22.560] that you see all over your social media,
[03:22.560 -> 03:25.080] all over the websites that you go to,
[03:25.080 -> 03:27.460] all over the things that you and your friends share
[03:27.460 -> 03:30.300] on WhatsApp or text message or whatever.
[03:30.300 -> 03:31.680] The stuff that you're filling your brain with,
[03:31.680 -> 03:32.960] the images that you're using,
[03:32.960 -> 03:34.640] have never been more important.
[03:34.640 -> 03:36.340] You know, our athletes that we have on the podcast
[03:36.340 -> 03:38.360] talk about it all the time.
[03:38.360 -> 03:39.820] Adam Peaty was brilliant at it.
[03:39.820 -> 03:41.680] Adam Peaty spoke about visualization
[03:41.680 -> 03:44.400] and the power of seeing himself winning
[03:44.400 -> 03:45.320] before he goes and does it. Well, if seeing in your and the power of seeing himself winning before he goes and does it
[03:45.320 -> 03:50.180] Well if seeing in your head the image of success
[03:51.320 -> 03:57.200] Create success then seeing the image of negativity looking at images looking at things that
[03:57.840 -> 04:01.560] Drain you rather than fill you up will do the exact opposite of give you success
[04:01.560 -> 04:06.320] And I really think you should take a look at, particularly the social media accounts you follow,
[04:06.320 -> 04:07.880] and just make a decision.
[04:07.880 -> 04:10.240] Are those accounts fountains that fill you up,
[04:10.240 -> 04:13.360] fill you with positivity, or are they drains
[04:13.360 -> 04:14.720] that just make you feel inferior
[04:14.720 -> 04:16.020] and that you're not achieving very much
[04:16.020 -> 04:17.840] and that life isn't great?
[04:17.840 -> 04:19.360] It's so important that we all understand
[04:19.360 -> 04:22.520] that social media is someone else's curated,
[04:22.520 -> 04:24.080] edited version of their life,
[04:24.080 -> 04:25.980] and you're comparing it to your actual real life
[04:26.500 -> 04:28.500] So before we start today's podcast
[04:29.760 -> 04:32.800] Based on that brilliant book from Paul McGinley
[04:33.480 -> 04:35.240] landscape of success
[04:35.240 -> 04:39.160] just really think about the visual images in your life and
[04:39.720 -> 04:43.900] The person you speak to most is yourself. There's no one in this world
[04:43.900 -> 04:45.760] You speak to more often than you speak to most is yourself. There's no one in this world you speak to more often than you speak to yourself.
[04:46.080 -> 04:48.280] So make sure that you're sharing good images with yourself.
[04:48.320 -> 04:49.880] Make sure that you're sharing positive things.
[04:49.920 -> 04:51.640] Make sure that you're saying good things to yourself.
[04:53.120 -> 04:53.800] You deserve it.
[04:54.120 -> 04:54.960] You deserve the best.
[04:55.480 -> 04:56.640] Anyway, let's get on with it.
[04:56.680 -> 05:01.400] It's time for today's high performance podcast with the inspirational Paul McGinley.
[05:01.480 -> 05:03.240] I can't wait to hear what you think of this episode.
[05:03.680 -> 05:04.520] It comes next.
[05:03.800 -> 05:07.320] I can't wait to hear what you think of this episode. It comes next.
[05:07.320 -> 05:12.600] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns.
[05:12.600 -> 05:18.360] But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B, and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either.
[05:18.360 -> 05:22.440] That's why if you're a B2B marketer, you should use LinkedIn ads.
[05:22.440 -> 05:27.120] LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional audience.
[05:27.120 -> 05:29.680] That's right, over 70 million decision makers
[05:29.680 -> 05:31.240] all in one place.
[05:31.240 -> 05:33.680] All the big wigs, then medium wigs,
[05:33.680 -> 05:37.020] also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs.
[05:37.020 -> 05:38.560] Okay, that's enough about wigs.
[05:38.560 -> 05:40.320] LinkedIn ads allows you to focus
[05:40.320 -> 05:43.120] on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[05:43.120 -> 05:46.000] So, does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn
[05:46.000 -> 05:50.000] instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest voice in the world?
[05:50.000 -> 05:52.000] Yes. Yes, it does.
[05:52.000 -> 05:56.000] Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
[05:56.000 -> 05:59.000] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
[05:59.000 -> 06:03.000] Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit.
[06:03.000 -> 06:11.640] That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. On our podcast we love to highlight businesses
[06:11.640 -> 06:15.480] that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life and that's
[06:15.480 -> 06:20.120] why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share. So Mint Mobile ditched retail
[06:20.120 -> 06:24.460] stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone plans online
[06:24.460 -> 06:28.320] and passes those savings to you. And for a limited time they're
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[06:32.440 -> 06:38.520] plans to $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan. That's unlimited talk
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[07:03.840 -> 07:09.920] unlimited talk and text and high- speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use
[07:09.920 -> 07:14.400] your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your
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[07:20.560 -> 08:07.000] service for just $15 a month. To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited Hey, before we get going, a shout out to. See Mint Mobile for details. Chris Boardman on the record-breaking Type 108 bike that Chris rode to victory in the 1992 Barcelona Games.
[08:07.000 -> 08:13.700] And now, all these years later, he's done exactly the same with Team GB, and we've been amazing in the track cycling,
[08:13.700 -> 08:19.500] and Lotus and Richard have more than played their part in the success that we've endured on the track,
[08:19.500 -> 08:26.160] because Lotus helped create the bike that the cyclists were using. And as they returned from an amazing games in Tokyo,
[08:26.160 -> 08:28.120] I just want to say congratulations, of course,
[08:28.120 -> 08:30.400] to Lotus Cars for the work they did.
[08:30.400 -> 08:33.220] But more than that, to everyone involved with Team GB
[08:33.220 -> 08:37.040] for the inspiration that they've given us, our children.
[08:37.040 -> 08:39.720] It's been absolutely remarkable watching their efforts.
[08:39.720 -> 08:42.680] And just remember that without Lotus Cars,
[08:42.680 -> 08:45.440] our track cyclists wouldn't have been as impressive.
[08:45.440 -> 08:47.240] And without Lotus cars,
[08:47.240 -> 08:50.140] the High Performance Podcast wouldn't exist.
[08:50.140 -> 08:55.180] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey,
[08:55.180 -> 08:56.800] and you're listening to High Performance,
[08:56.800 -> 08:58.600] the podcast that delves into the minds
[08:58.600 -> 09:00.600] of the most successful athletes, visionaries,
[09:00.600 -> 09:02.920] entrepreneurs, and artists on the planet.
[09:02.920 -> 09:05.400] Aims to unlock the secrets to their high performance life so you too can follow in their footsteps. ymwneud â phrofesorion, dynion a gweithwyr ar y byd, ymwneud ag anlwg y rhaglenau i'r bywydau'r cyfrifoldeb
[09:05.400 -> 09:07.960] er mwyn i chi i gyd dilyn y pethau sy'n cael eu dilyn.
[09:07.960 -> 09:09.560] Professor Damien Hughes,
[09:09.560 -> 09:11.960] y ffyrdd o fy nghyd yma yw gyda fi.
[09:11.960 -> 09:13.480] Rydyn ni wedi sôn am nifer o...
[09:13.480 -> 09:14.360] Dw i'n credu eich bod chi'n hoffi hynny.
[09:14.360 -> 09:16.720] Rydyn ni wedi sôn am nifer o bobl ymdrechion y pod.
[09:16.720 -> 09:19.360] Mae rhai ohonoch wedi sôn am storiau cyfansoddol,
[09:19.360 -> 09:21.080] mae rhai wedi bod yn chwaraewyr tîm,
[09:21.080 -> 09:23.720] mae rhai ohonoch wedi bod yn rheoliwr sy'n edrych ar y rhai eraill.
[09:23.720 -> 09:27.000] Mae'r gwestiwn heddiw yn cyfuno'r holl hyn, dydw iilydd wedi bod yn rhannwyr oedran, rhai o'r gilydd wedi bod yn rhannwyr oedran, rhai o'r gilydd wedi bod yn rhannwyr oedran, rhai o'r gilydd wedi bod yn rhannwyr oedran, rhai o'r gilydd wedi bod yn rhannwyr oedran, rhai o'r gilydd wedi bod in managers looking after others. Mae'r gilydd heddiw yn cyfieithu'r holl hyn, dydy'n i?
[09:27.000 -> 09:29.000] Ie, rwy'n mor cyffredin am y gilydd hwn, Jake.
[09:29.000 -> 09:34.000] Rwy'n meddwl mai dyma rhywun sydd wedi bod ar ddifrif iawn o fod yn gilydd o'r gilydd cyffredin,
[09:34.000 -> 09:36.000] yn ymwneud â'u bod yn y sport unigol,
[09:36.000 -> 09:39.000] ac yn mynd yn ôl i'r gilydd o'r gilydd.
[09:39.000 -> 09:42.000] Felly rwy'n meddwl bod yna lawer o aelodau y gallwn ei ymdrechu.
[09:42.000 -> 09:46.660] Cyda ni heddiw, mae un o'r gilydd sydd wedi gwneud un o'r fwyaf angenedig lluniau yn Rhyngwraith y Cwbl Historia er mwyn gynnal y cyflawn i Ewrop. that we can really explore. With us today is a man who in 2002 putted one of the most famous shots in Ryder Cup history
[09:46.660 -> 09:47.860] to win the title for Europe.
[09:47.860 -> 09:50.300] 12 years later, he captained the European team
[09:50.300 -> 09:51.500] to glory once more.
[09:51.500 -> 09:54.680] However, we're really interested in his resilience,
[09:54.680 -> 09:57.340] his discipline, his obsession with practice,
[09:57.340 -> 09:59.580] how you engage the heart, not just the head,
[09:59.580 -> 10:01.700] and how you can remove self-doubt.
[10:01.700 -> 10:03.940] He's actually written a remarkable book
[10:03.940 -> 10:05.100] that I've been lucky enough to read,
[10:05.100 -> 10:07.520] as has Damien, called Landscape of Success,
[10:07.520 -> 10:09.580] and I personally took so many lessons from it,
[10:09.580 -> 10:11.980] so I'm really pleased to welcome to the podcast,
[10:11.980 -> 10:13.120] Paul McGinley.
[10:13.120 -> 10:14.520] Thank you, Jake, thank you, Damien.
[10:14.520 -> 10:15.920] Nice introduction.
[10:15.920 -> 10:17.020] Nice to have you with us.
[10:17.020 -> 10:19.980] Right, what is high performance?
[10:19.980 -> 10:23.380] I'm coming from a world of failure, to be honest,
[10:23.380 -> 10:24.900] if I can start there.
[10:24.900 -> 10:27.760] I was thinking about this as I was walking in here today.
[10:27.760 -> 10:28.800] My edge is a different edge
[10:28.800 -> 10:30.440] than what most people will come in with.
[10:30.440 -> 10:33.320] You take a tennis player, for example, you take Nadal.
[10:33.320 -> 10:35.960] He spends most of his career winning.
[10:35.960 -> 10:39.440] His win ratio is up 90% or so
[10:39.440 -> 10:43.280] of every game he's ever played since he was a boy.
[10:43.280 -> 10:44.520] You've got your opponent in front of you
[10:44.520 -> 10:46.840] and you're as successful as he is,
[10:46.840 -> 10:47.980] you spend most of your time winning.
[10:47.980 -> 10:51.220] And I'll take you back to my first year as a pro, 1992.
[10:51.220 -> 10:54.460] I was playing down in Jerez in Spain,
[10:54.460 -> 10:57.020] and Jack Nicklaus was playing in that tournament.
[10:57.020 -> 10:59.660] Jack was probably in his early 50s at that stage.
[10:59.660 -> 11:02.780] I'd gone to college in America with his son, Gary,
[11:02.780 -> 11:05.460] and cheekily, this was before mobile phones, 1992,
[11:05.460 -> 11:08.360] and cheekily I asked Gary at the start of the week,
[11:08.360 -> 11:09.380] I said, look, if there's any chance,
[11:09.380 -> 11:10.720] I'd love to have dinner with your dad this week.
[11:10.720 -> 11:12.260] I'm only on tour now three months,
[11:12.260 -> 11:14.360] my first three months as a professional.
[11:14.360 -> 11:15.640] I've just come through the tour school
[11:15.640 -> 11:18.040] and this is one of my first events.
[11:18.040 -> 11:19.960] And he said, look, he said, dad's a busy man,
[11:19.960 -> 11:21.880] I'm afraid it's not gonna happen, Paul,
[11:21.880 -> 11:22.920] you know, there's a lot going on this week.
[11:22.920 -> 11:24.520] Now, Nicholas had designed that golf course
[11:24.520 -> 11:25.880] and that's why he was there playing it.
[11:25.880 -> 11:27.360] And he'd obviously got an invite to Gary
[11:27.360 -> 11:28.560] to come and play, too.
[11:28.560 -> 11:30.880] So, roll on to Friday night, I'd made the cut,
[11:30.880 -> 11:32.840] and I'm in my hotel room at six o'clock,
[11:32.840 -> 11:35.080] kind of lying on the bed, getting ready to go down
[11:35.080 -> 11:36.600] and meet all the Irish guys for dinner.
[11:36.600 -> 11:38.400] And I get a phone call, and it's Gary.
[11:38.400 -> 11:40.640] He said, Paul, Gary, Nicholas here,
[11:40.640 -> 11:42.280] look, he said, Dad has missed the cut.
[11:42.280 -> 11:43.400] We're going to this restaurant.
[11:43.400 -> 11:46.040] It's gonna be Dad, his agent, and myself.
[11:46.040 -> 11:47.280] And dad said, you can come along.
[11:47.280 -> 11:48.640] Do you fancy coming?
[11:48.640 -> 11:50.120] So, too right, I would.
[11:50.120 -> 11:51.480] That was his, look, dinner,
[11:51.480 -> 11:53.200] restaurant doesn't open till 8.30 at night.
[11:53.200 -> 11:56.840] And anyway, long story short, of course I went.
[11:56.840 -> 11:59.400] And I remember the dinner vividly.
[11:59.400 -> 12:01.840] And I still remember all the conversation in it
[12:01.840 -> 12:03.420] as long ago as it was.
[12:03.420 -> 12:05.800] But what really struck with me at the end of the dinner,
[12:05.800 -> 12:08.260] at kind of one o'clock in the morning when we were leaving,
[12:08.260 -> 12:09.620] and Nicholas had really enjoyed himself,
[12:09.620 -> 12:10.960] he had a good few glasses of wine
[12:10.960 -> 12:13.100] and a couple of cigarettes along with it too,
[12:13.100 -> 12:14.680] back in the days when you could smoke in a restaurant.
[12:14.680 -> 12:16.320] We were in Little Alcove at the back of the restaurant.
[12:16.320 -> 12:18.100] But what struck me when we were leaving
[12:18.100 -> 12:19.400] was he shook my hand and he said,
[12:19.400 -> 12:21.280] Paul, you're starting out in your career,
[12:21.280 -> 12:23.660] I want to wish you the very best of luck.
[12:23.660 -> 12:24.820] But one thing you must remember
[12:24.820 -> 12:26.860] about being a professional golfer, in my career, I want to wish you the very best of luck. But one thing you must remember about being a professional golfer,
[12:26.860 -> 12:29.640] in my career, I've spent 90% of my time
[12:29.640 -> 12:32.460] losing at this game and 10% winning.
[12:32.460 -> 12:33.720] And I'm the most successful player
[12:33.720 -> 12:35.480] that's ever played the game.
[12:35.480 -> 12:38.680] So managing loss, managing losing,
[12:39.800 -> 12:41.520] the resilience that what you mentioned there
[12:41.520 -> 12:44.160] in it coming through, that's a huge makeup
[12:44.160 -> 12:46.020] of the world that I come from
[12:46.020 -> 12:48.240] in professional golf, because no matter how good you are,
[12:48.240 -> 12:49.400] as good as you are as Jack Nicklaus,
[12:49.400 -> 12:51.480] the greatest player ever played the game,
[12:51.480 -> 12:54.080] nine times out of 10, you're walking away having lost.
[12:54.080 -> 12:56.360] So when you, and I'm particularly interested in
[12:56.360 -> 12:59.340] when you were the captain of the Ryder Cup team,
[12:59.340 -> 13:02.780] you had players there who would not like losing,
[13:02.780 -> 13:09.460] other players like you that had become comfortable with failure. How did you tap into the players that played around you
[13:09.460 -> 13:12.780] to get the best out of them and to remove the fear of failure because I
[13:12.780 -> 13:16.460] think that's what holds so many people back in life isn't the fact they fail
[13:16.460 -> 13:21.060] it's the fact that before they even have a shot they're fearful of the failure.
[13:21.060 -> 13:24.840] Yeah and we're all there certainly as golfers we've all been there you know
[13:24.840 -> 13:26.700] fear overcomes up takes over all of and we're all there. Certainly as golfers, we've all been there. You know, fear takes over all of us.
[13:26.700 -> 13:28.460] We've all made massive mistakes under pressure.
[13:28.460 -> 13:29.620] There's not a player who's played the game.
[13:29.620 -> 13:32.260] It's not such a difficult, multidimensional game
[13:32.260 -> 13:33.700] that golf is.
[13:33.700 -> 13:37.860] The Ryder Cup captaincy is a very unique thing in sport.
[13:39.060 -> 13:41.580] And what makes it interesting for so many people,
[13:41.580 -> 13:43.340] it's not just the best 12 players from America
[13:43.340 -> 13:45.160] against the best 12 from Europe. What makes it so interesting, particularly in, it's not just the best 12 players from America against the best 12 from Europe.
[13:45.160 -> 13:48.620] What makes it so interesting, particularly in the business world as I moved into and
[13:48.620 -> 13:53.560] why business people have become very interested in it is that you're taking 12 individuals
[13:53.560 -> 13:58.680] at the very top of their game from an individual sport and an individual background and you're
[13:58.680 -> 14:03.760] throwing them all together for one week every two years and you have to manage that dynamic.
[14:03.760 -> 14:05.060] You have to manage the egos.
[14:05.060 -> 14:07.660] You have to manage the different skill sets that they have.
[14:07.660 -> 14:10.080] Some players might be the best in the world,
[14:10.080 -> 14:12.960] and other guys might be languishing 60, 70 in the world,
[14:12.960 -> 14:14.200] and they're all part of the same team,
[14:14.200 -> 14:15.160] and you've got to put it together.
[14:15.160 -> 14:16.520] You've got to create the tactics.
[14:16.520 -> 14:18.220] You've got to manage all the egos,
[14:19.120 -> 14:21.200] and it's not a particularly easy place to be,
[14:21.200 -> 14:22.280] as you can imagine.
[14:22.280 -> 14:23.760] So that's what makes the captaincy
[14:23.760 -> 14:25.960] so intriguing and so different.
[14:25.960 -> 14:29.280] And just, I mean we can talk about it later if you want,
[14:29.280 -> 14:32.360] but the real key for me was keeping them as individuals
[14:32.360 -> 14:33.720] and not making them a team.
[14:33.720 -> 14:36.160] I know that's contrary to a lot of things that people hear.
[14:36.160 -> 14:37.480] I think team is overrated.
[14:37.480 -> 14:39.480] I think it's got to start with the individual.
[14:39.480 -> 14:40.800] Before we explore that, Paul,
[14:40.800 -> 14:43.760] I'm intrigued by going back further into your career
[14:43.760 -> 14:46.300] where you were a Gaelic footballer
[14:46.300 -> 14:49.340] up until you got the injury at the age of 19.
[14:49.340 -> 14:52.660] So what was your experience of being part of a team
[14:52.660 -> 14:55.720] prior to then you taking over this captaincy?
[14:55.720 -> 14:57.900] Well, yeah, I mean, and that's very much part
[14:57.900 -> 14:59.920] of why I've excelled as a team more as a,
[14:59.920 -> 15:01.760] you know, although I was a top 20 player in the world,
[15:01.760 -> 15:03.560] I excelled more in my roles,
[15:03.560 -> 15:05.280] and 14 teams have represented Europe,
[15:05.280 -> 15:06.360] and we won 13 of them.
[15:06.360 -> 15:08.240] And my record was really good.
[15:08.240 -> 15:09.780] My winning percentage was really high.
[15:09.780 -> 15:11.560] I seemed to go to another level.
[15:11.560 -> 15:13.440] I seemed to be unburdened as part of a team.
[15:13.440 -> 15:15.240] And I often ask myself that question.
[15:15.240 -> 15:16.080] Why?
[15:16.080 -> 15:18.240] Why do I feel less pressure in the team?
[15:18.240 -> 15:20.200] You hear all of the top players say,
[15:20.200 -> 15:21.760] I feel so much pressure in the Ryder Cup,
[15:21.760 -> 15:22.680] Tiger Woods included.
[15:22.680 -> 15:23.640] You know, it's so difficult,
[15:23.640 -> 15:27.720] you don't want to let your teammates down. And I'm looking, I'm thinking, well actually I felt the complete opposite to that.
[15:27.720 -> 15:32.200] I felt unburdened and unshackled when I was part of a team.
[15:32.200 -> 15:36.480] And I think a lot of it goes back to my days growing up in Dublin that we talked before
[15:36.480 -> 15:41.880] we started here about, you know, growing up in a very Catholic GAA background.
[15:41.880 -> 15:45.220] GAA is a game in Ireland,, very parochial game in Ireland.
[15:45.220 -> 15:46.740] We've got 32 counties in Ireland
[15:46.740 -> 15:48.460] and it's a Gaelic football it's called
[15:48.460 -> 15:50.820] and you have to play, you can only play
[15:50.820 -> 15:52.340] for the county you're born in.
[15:52.340 -> 15:54.700] So even though you get 85,000 people at these games,
[15:54.700 -> 15:57.020] there's no transfers, nobody gets paid
[15:57.980 -> 15:59.660] and it's incredibly parochial.
[15:59.660 -> 16:00.980] So you grow up as a young boy,
[16:00.980 -> 16:03.020] whether it be in Dublin or County Cavern
[16:03.020 -> 16:05.740] or County Donegal or Cork or wherever you may be, you grow up with a desire to represent whether it be in Dublin, or County Cavern, or County Donegal, or Cork, or wherever you may be,
[16:05.740 -> 16:08.280] you grow up with a desire to represent the county,
[16:08.280 -> 16:09.980] and represent the county jersey,
[16:09.980 -> 16:13.380] represent your people, your aunties, your uncles,
[16:13.380 -> 16:14.560] the guys you went to school with,
[16:14.560 -> 16:16.340] the girlfriends you might have had through school.
[16:16.340 -> 16:18.420] That's what you want to do, that's what drives you
[16:18.420 -> 16:20.900] as a young person growing up in Ireland.
[16:20.900 -> 16:25.400] And I think I've brought that into professional golf.
[16:25.400 -> 16:27.380] And certainly when I was captain,
[16:27.380 -> 16:29.520] it's one of the things that I wanted to bring into the team.
[16:29.520 -> 16:32.460] You know, Sergio Garcia was not there just representing
[16:32.460 -> 16:34.200] a faceless blue flag of Europe.
[16:34.200 -> 16:35.840] He was there representing Spain.
[16:35.840 -> 16:38.320] Martin Keimer was there and he was representing Germany.
[16:38.320 -> 16:39.960] And the people tuning in from Germany
[16:39.960 -> 16:41.160] to watch this Ryder Cup, Martin,
[16:41.160 -> 16:42.540] as all they're interested in Europe,
[16:42.540 -> 16:44.960] they are more interested in how Martin Keimer is doing.
[16:44.960 -> 16:46.960] So, you know, that's when you mentioned earlier.
[16:46.960 -> 16:48.240] And you made it clear to them, did you?
[16:48.240 -> 16:49.080] Absolutely.
[16:49.080 -> 16:49.900] You reminded them of that,
[16:49.900 -> 16:51.020] because I'd imagine a lot of Ryder Cup captains
[16:51.020 -> 16:53.880] would have put Europe at the top of the tree.
[16:53.880 -> 16:55.520] I made it about individual, Jake.
[16:55.520 -> 16:57.700] I mean, I know it was contrary to a lot of things
[16:57.700 -> 16:58.640] you hear about teams,
[16:58.640 -> 17:01.600] but these guys coming in an individual sport,
[17:01.600 -> 17:03.060] to be honest, and I include myself in this,
[17:03.060 -> 17:04.060] we're all quite selfish.
[17:04.060 -> 17:06.280] You have to be, it has to be about you.
[17:06.280 -> 17:08.060] And it's all about you, you've nubby the belly out,
[17:08.060 -> 17:09.340] you've got you and your caddy,
[17:09.340 -> 17:11.560] and your coach is not on the golf course with you,
[17:11.560 -> 17:13.120] and you have to be very insular,
[17:13.120 -> 17:14.700] you have to be very selfish.
[17:14.700 -> 17:17.100] So when I took over the Ryder Cup team,
[17:17.100 -> 17:19.060] and something I'd observed when I was a vice captain
[17:19.060 -> 17:21.100] and when I played in the Ryder Cups,
[17:21.100 -> 17:24.100] was that this is not really about the team here.
[17:24.100 -> 17:28.320] The real skill is dealing with them as individuals first
[17:28.320 -> 17:30.720] And that's why most of my management was done
[17:31.680 -> 17:35.480] 98% of my management was done on a one-to-one basis. I was a
[17:36.040 -> 17:39.840] Something that you had to learn as an individual golfer because again
[17:39.840 -> 17:43.960] I'm fascinated by you making that transition from having an injury
[17:43.960 -> 17:47.720] So having to leave a team sport to then go into an individual pursuit
[17:47.720 -> 17:54.560] Like golf did you have to learn to be selfish learn to stop looking out for other people was that a skill?
[17:54.800 -> 18:00.100] It wasn't a skill. I think it's something it was it was something Damien that you had to
[18:00.620 -> 18:07.120] You know sink or swim. You know if you weren't that. I remember going to the tour school, for example,
[18:07.120 -> 18:10.200] and being really nervous going out into the last day,
[18:10.200 -> 18:12.760] and being petrified to look at the scoreboard.
[18:12.760 -> 18:13.920] I didn't want to get distracted.
[18:13.920 -> 18:15.800] I put my head down, it's like putting your head down
[18:15.800 -> 18:17.680] in a race, running as fast as you can,
[18:17.680 -> 18:19.040] just constantly looking at the ground,
[18:19.040 -> 18:20.880] not looking anywhere else, and then you go,
[18:20.880 -> 18:23.680] okay, I'm through the finishing line, how did I do?
[18:23.680 -> 18:26.080] And I think that was the start of it.
[18:26.080 -> 18:27.440] And when I got on tour then,
[18:27.440 -> 18:28.680] and you're mixing with all of these guys
[18:28.680 -> 18:30.600] who think that way, and you start thinking that way.
[18:30.600 -> 18:33.680] And you realize that that is the way you've got to be.
[18:33.680 -> 18:37.040] And it is a real dog-eat-dog business, professional golf.
[18:37.040 -> 18:40.720] It's a very, very difficult sport because, as I say,
[18:40.720 -> 18:42.960] you don't have a real big team behind you,
[18:42.960 -> 18:45.680] and there's so many skill sets involved
[18:45.680 -> 18:47.340] in being a professional golfer, you know.
[18:47.340 -> 18:49.080] It's not just the mental skill sets,
[18:49.080 -> 18:50.120] you know, it's the physical ones.
[18:50.120 -> 18:51.240] You've got to hit the ball straight,
[18:51.240 -> 18:52.400] you've got to drive the ball straight,
[18:52.400 -> 18:53.360] you've got to be a good iron player,
[18:53.360 -> 18:54.200] you've got to be a good chipper,
[18:54.200 -> 18:55.020] you've got to be a good putter,
[18:55.020 -> 18:56.420] you've got to be a good bunker player.
[18:56.420 -> 18:58.480] All the other attributes that you've got to do physically
[18:58.480 -> 19:01.080] in terms of fitness and then the mental ones on top of that.
[19:01.080 -> 19:03.760] So you have to be on top of so many different skill sets
[19:03.760 -> 19:05.360] in order to be successful.
[19:05.360 -> 19:07.880] Let's talk then about getting to the hearts of your players.
[19:07.880 -> 19:09.980] We have so many different people listen to this podcast.
[19:09.980 -> 19:12.980] It gets shared among a lot of both professional
[19:12.980 -> 19:16.040] and amateur sports teams right across the world.
[19:16.040 -> 19:18.000] Also, lots of business people
[19:18.000 -> 19:20.100] and an incredible amount of teachers as well listen to this
[19:20.100 -> 19:21.860] and I think this could be really useful
[19:21.860 -> 19:24.180] for people in a teaching setting
[19:24.180 -> 19:25.040] where you've got 30 kids
[19:25.040 -> 19:26.200] and you're trying to get to their hearts,
[19:26.200 -> 19:27.600] not to their heads.
[19:27.600 -> 19:29.440] So when you were there with those 12 players
[19:29.440 -> 19:32.800] in front of you, what tools did you use
[19:32.800 -> 19:35.280] to get to the hearts of those players?
[19:35.280 -> 19:37.240] It's about communication.
[19:37.240 -> 19:38.960] That's where you start and that's where you end,
[19:38.960 -> 19:39.800] more than anything else.
[19:39.800 -> 19:41.760] That's the number one fundamental,
[19:41.760 -> 19:44.080] and your relationship with those players.
[19:44.080 -> 19:46.240] And you've got gotta know them intimately
[19:46.240 -> 19:48.640] as individuals and people,
[19:48.640 -> 19:50.120] as much as you need to know them as golfers.
[19:50.120 -> 19:51.720] I mean, I can find out in the morning.
[19:51.720 -> 19:53.520] If you give me an hour, I can give you a background
[19:53.520 -> 19:55.000] on any professional golfer in the world.
[19:55.000 -> 19:56.640] I just know exactly where to trawl into,
[19:56.640 -> 19:58.600] get their statistics, find out their strengths,
[19:58.600 -> 20:01.040] find out their weaknesses, make a couple of phone calls,
[20:01.040 -> 20:02.240] and within an hour, I can tell you
[20:02.240 -> 20:05.320] exactly where that person is as a golfer.
[20:05.320 -> 20:07.220] But the real key to managing that person
[20:07.220 -> 20:09.000] is knowing them as individuals.
[20:09.000 -> 20:10.740] What's the family situation like?
[20:10.740 -> 20:12.920] Where are they coming from and their background?
[20:12.920 -> 20:13.760] Are they practicing?
[20:13.760 -> 20:14.580] Are they not?
[20:14.580 -> 20:15.420] What would you do with a man?
[20:15.420 -> 20:16.760] Like Martin Kimer, take him as a,
[20:16.760 -> 20:19.240] or anyone you choose, what would you do?
[20:19.240 -> 20:21.800] Yeah, I mean, the guy I use is Victor Dubesson.
[20:21.800 -> 20:24.480] So we had a guy called Victor Dubesson on the team
[20:24.480 -> 20:26.040] who was French.
[20:26.040 -> 20:29.280] Very charismatic, but very, very quiet,
[20:29.280 -> 20:31.060] and incredibly shy.
[20:31.060 -> 20:33.220] I played with Victor a number of times on tour.
[20:33.220 -> 20:34.680] So I kind of knew his game.
[20:34.680 -> 20:36.020] I knew his game, what his skill set was,
[20:36.020 -> 20:37.700] and a fabulous player he was.
[20:37.700 -> 20:39.020] So I meant it my business to get him to know
[20:39.020 -> 20:39.960] I'm an individual.
[20:39.960 -> 20:41.980] It didn't start with me going in there
[20:41.980 -> 20:43.420] and telling him what we're going to do.
[20:43.420 -> 20:46.920] It was very much of getting his confidence in me. So was it quite casual to start with? you know, me going in there and telling them what we're going to do. It was very much of getting his confidence in me.
[20:46.920 -> 20:48.280] So was it quite casual to start with?
[20:48.280 -> 20:51.440] Very, very casual over a glass of wine, breaking them down.
[20:51.520 -> 20:52.800] I mean, and he was a very quiet guy.
[20:52.800 -> 20:54.840] He was very difficult to be honest, very difficult to break down.
[20:54.840 -> 20:57.920] But I figured out then one of the things that he loved more than anything, and this
[20:57.920 -> 21:01.280] is where our friend is going to come into this, Eddie Jordan, I figured that his one
[21:01.280 -> 21:04.040] passion, even more so than golf was Formula One.
[21:04.080 -> 21:05.880] He loved Formula One.
[21:05.880 -> 21:08.240] So when I got back, I rang Eddie,
[21:08.240 -> 21:10.800] and I said, look, I need a favor.
[21:10.800 -> 21:12.200] He said, what's the favor?
[21:12.200 -> 21:14.320] I said, look, this French guy, Dubuisson,
[21:14.320 -> 21:16.200] I said, he loves Formula One,
[21:16.200 -> 21:18.000] and you'd be a big hero to him.
[21:18.000 -> 21:20.120] I said, what about we have dinner with him
[21:20.120 -> 21:22.640] or invite him down to your boat one day?
[21:22.640 -> 21:23.760] Yeah, yeah, no problem, no problem.
[21:23.760 -> 21:24.800] Let me know what date and by when.
[21:24.800 -> 21:28.280] So anyway, close to our tour, we got a date, and we went down to Monaco, flew down to your boat one day. Yeah, yeah, no problem. No problem. Let me know what date and by when. So anyway, close to us, we got a date and we went down to Monaco, flew down to
[21:28.280 -> 21:30.640] Monaco and Eddie was, was on the boat.
[21:30.640 -> 21:34.240] My wife came with me, we're good friends with Eddie Marie and, and we had Victor on.
[21:34.240 -> 21:35.180] He came along with his friend.
[21:35.180 -> 21:36.480] He brought a beautiful bottle of wine.
[21:36.480 -> 21:40.920] We had a lovely dinner together on Eddie's boat and a nice bottle of wine, bit of fun.
[21:41.200 -> 21:46.400] And I gave a couple of key messages to Eddie that he went off and kind of spoke to him
[21:46.400 -> 21:50.320] on a personal level, and Eddie spoke about me to him
[21:50.320 -> 21:52.720] about where we were coming from, and just building
[21:52.720 -> 21:55.000] that relationship, and now I've got to fit this guy
[21:55.000 -> 21:57.320] into the team, so what I did in the last few months
[21:57.320 -> 21:59.800] was I identified that he needs somebody senior
[21:59.800 -> 22:01.280] to be his partner on the team.
[22:01.280 -> 22:02.680] I couldn't put him in with another rookie.
[22:02.680 -> 22:05.660] He needed a real mature senior guy.
[22:05.660 -> 22:08.040] And I highlighted Graham McDowell as that guy.
[22:08.040 -> 22:10.860] So something that hadn't been done before was I controlled
[22:10.860 -> 22:12.780] the draws on the European tour during the whole summer.
[22:12.780 -> 22:14.660] So every time Graham come over from America to play
[22:14.660 -> 22:17.820] in a European tour event, he mysteriously was drawn
[22:17.820 -> 22:20.820] with Victor, unbeknown to him, but I never told him why.
[22:20.820 -> 22:22.500] I just wanted to see if they would get on.
[22:22.500 -> 22:24.180] I wanted the caddies to get to know each other.
[22:24.180 -> 22:26.840] And I wanted them to form a relationship with each other and spend a
[22:26.840 -> 22:30.680] bit of time together unbeknownst to them that they could be playing the Ryder Cup. Eventually
[22:30.680 -> 22:33.960] I sit down with Graham at the end of the summer a couple of weeks before the Ryder Cup and
[22:33.960 -> 22:39.200] try to explain to Graham about the role I wanted to play and that I wanted to play with
[22:39.200 -> 22:42.720] Victor and he's not happy that he wants to play with Victor. He said well look I want
[22:42.720 -> 22:45.880] to play with Rory or I want to play with Sergio and I want to play with Victor. He said, well look, I wanna play with Rory or I wanna play with Sergio, I wanna play five games,
[22:45.880 -> 22:48.960] I wanna be, you know, hold a winning putt in 2010,
[22:48.960 -> 22:51.960] you know, I really feel like I'm one of the senior guys
[22:51.960 -> 22:53.200] in the team, I don't wanna do that.
[22:53.200 -> 22:55.440] So I've gotta manage that situation with him
[22:55.440 -> 22:57.720] to bring him in with Victor, and that's what I did.
[22:57.720 -> 22:59.360] And it was a bit of a carrot and a stick with him,
[22:59.360 -> 23:01.540] if you do this, play with him, and then I explained
[23:01.540 -> 23:02.800] why he needs to play with Victor,
[23:02.800 -> 23:04.520] and not just because of the maturity,
[23:04.520 -> 23:08.520] also that the golf course, the data came into it then I explained the data and
[23:08.840 -> 23:13.980] About you know there was the foursomes the alternate shot and there was five holes that were even numbers
[23:14.160 -> 23:19.080] That were either par fives or driveable par four and I wanted a big hitter to hit it on that and he wasn't a big
[23:19.080 -> 23:21.680] hitter whereas Victor was and it would work that way and and
[23:21.680 -> 23:26.680] Then if he would do that and be fresh and only play one round the first two days I'd put him out number one in the singles
[23:26.680 -> 23:30.480] and you know that was playing to his ego then at that stage because you know he's
[23:30.480 -> 23:32.920] a great player and he could handle a position of going out and leading in the
[23:32.920 -> 23:36.360] singles and so got him inside so molded him into it and so that's just one
[23:36.360 -> 23:41.680] example of dealing with a player who was new to the Ryder Cup situation hadn't
[23:41.680 -> 23:44.920] played before and was difficult and he turned out he won all three of his games
[23:44.920 -> 23:45.020] everyone two and a half out of three he, and was difficult, and he turned out he won all three of his games,
[23:45.020 -> 23:46.060] he won two and a half out of three,
[23:46.060 -> 23:47.360] he probably would have won his three,
[23:47.360 -> 23:49.740] and he was a big star, and very welcomed
[23:49.740 -> 23:52.080] and a big part of the team, so that's just,
[23:52.080 -> 23:53.180] I've given you one example there,
[23:53.180 -> 23:54.020] where you can look at that by 12.
[23:54.020 -> 23:55.500] But that to me is a brilliant illustration, Paul,
[23:55.500 -> 23:57.900] of how there's a real balance there,
[23:57.900 -> 24:00.340] between the science and the art of what you're doing.
[24:00.340 -> 24:03.340] So, I love the fact that when you spoke to Graham,
[24:03.340 -> 24:06.200] you could give him plenty of rationale
[24:06.200 -> 24:09.040] about on these five holes, this is where your strength is.
[24:09.040 -> 24:10.320] But there's something about the art
[24:10.320 -> 24:12.640] of looking at the dynamics,
[24:12.640 -> 24:17.120] almost like the difficult things to be able to quantify.
[24:17.120 -> 24:19.000] How would you describe that balance is then
[24:19.000 -> 24:22.040] as a leader between the science of leading
[24:22.040 -> 24:25.280] and the art of sometimes just using your intuition?
[24:25.280 -> 24:29.800] With the science, one of the things that I did in 2014
[24:29.800 -> 24:32.380] was employ a full-time data team.
[24:32.380 -> 24:34.160] We'd never had that before in the Ryder Cup.
[24:34.160 -> 24:36.160] And I employed a company called strokeaverage.com
[24:36.160 -> 24:39.160] that did a number of stats on tour for players
[24:39.160 -> 24:41.680] individually as well, were well up to date with it.
[24:41.680 -> 24:44.200] Now guys who do stats and data, I'm sure you know,
[24:44.200 -> 24:46.000] they're kind of very nerdy kind of guys,
[24:46.000 -> 24:49.360] they love numbers and they could talk for hours and hours.
[24:49.360 -> 24:51.640] I'm not that kind of guy, I wanted simplicity,
[24:51.640 -> 24:54.080] I wanted clarity, and every meeting I had with them,
[24:54.080 -> 24:57.200] I only gave them a limited space of 15 minutes, end of,
[24:57.200 -> 24:58.560] and one page.
[24:58.560 -> 25:00.160] I don't want to know millions of things.
[25:00.160 -> 25:02.840] I want, there's a great line from Corey Pavin,
[25:02.840 -> 25:05.240] who was the captain in 2010. I never forgot it.
[25:07.840 -> 25:08.200] Always make the big thing, the big thing.
[25:09.960 -> 25:10.000] Easy to get distracted with data.
[25:15.560 -> 25:15.600] And, you know, we hear a lot about the 1% marginal gains and as much as, yeah,
[25:18.480 -> 25:18.880] that's kind of important, but never forget the big things.
[25:21.200 -> 25:21.360] And sometimes we lose trace of the big things.
[25:24.680 -> 25:25.760] So one of the things they come back to me, number one, because we played the Johnny Walker
[25:25.760 -> 25:27.160] on that golf course in Glen Eagles,
[25:27.160 -> 25:28.240] I'm a great guy in preparing,
[25:28.240 -> 25:30.800] the exam in golf is different every week you have
[25:30.800 -> 25:31.880] because of the golf course.
[25:31.880 -> 25:36.200] I wanted to know, what is the exam in Glen Eagles?
[25:36.200 -> 25:38.560] What skill set do you need to unlock that?
[25:38.560 -> 25:40.820] What is the common denominator and the correlation
[25:40.820 -> 25:43.600] between the last 10 years of the Johnny Walker up there
[25:43.600 -> 25:46.520] to the guys who have won, what have they done best?
[25:46.520 -> 25:47.960] And one of the things that was highlighted
[25:47.960 -> 25:49.800] was the par fives.
[25:49.800 -> 25:51.200] So one of the things that I traced
[25:51.200 -> 25:53.760] in my two years at captaincy was par five scoring average,
[25:53.760 -> 25:55.440] but I'm not telling this to the players.
[25:55.440 -> 25:57.680] I'm keeping it all internally here.
[25:57.680 -> 25:59.760] And hence, when it came to the foursomes,
[25:59.760 -> 26:02.700] the alternate shot, I had to attack the par fives.
[26:02.700 -> 26:04.740] Hence, back to the story of Graham,
[26:04.740 -> 26:05.880] who's a shorter hitter,
[26:05.880 -> 26:07.120] being put with a bigger hitter.
[26:07.120 -> 26:08.720] So a yin and a yang.
[26:08.720 -> 26:12.140] And because four of the five holes were even numbers,
[26:12.140 -> 26:14.600] they were to hit, the big hitter was to hit
[26:14.600 -> 26:16.400] on the even numbers.
[26:16.400 -> 26:18.060] But of course I never said that publicly,
[26:18.060 -> 26:19.700] I never even said it to the players.
[26:19.700 -> 26:21.640] It was what I was doing behind the scenes.
[26:21.640 -> 26:22.680] I was afraid of it leaking out
[26:22.680 -> 26:24.000] and the Americans finding out the edge
[26:24.000 -> 26:26.080] and then they would counteract that.
[26:26.080 -> 26:29.080] So I had to make sure that it was a very, very close
[26:29.080 -> 26:30.480] number of people who knew that.
[26:30.480 -> 26:31.300] I love that though.
[26:31.300 -> 26:33.100] I think there's a real skill in,
[26:33.100 -> 26:35.520] like they often talk about in Hollywood,
[26:35.520 -> 26:37.560] where if you're going to pitch an idea for a film,
[26:37.560 -> 26:38.800] they talk about the BLUF,
[26:38.800 -> 26:40.680] which is an acronym that stands for
[26:40.680 -> 26:42.440] give me the bottom line up front.
[26:42.440 -> 26:43.720] Just tell me what the film's about.
[26:43.720 -> 26:46.400] There's a famous one of the Indiana Jones trilogy
[26:46.400 -> 26:48.780] is James Bond with a hat and a whip.
[26:48.780 -> 26:50.120] Now that tells you everything you need to know
[26:50.120 -> 26:53.120] about the film and the consequences.
[26:55.120 -> 26:59.080] How important is simplicity for you as a leader
[26:59.080 -> 27:02.600] to be able to just give this bottom line up front
[27:02.600 -> 27:04.080] of this is what we're going to do?
[27:04.080 -> 27:07.000] I think it's massive, absolutely massive.
[27:07.000 -> 27:08.920] Simplicity and clarity.
[27:09.860 -> 27:11.700] More than anything else,
[27:11.700 -> 27:14.580] that's my communication with the players.
[27:14.580 -> 27:17.200] And that's why my team meetings every night,
[27:17.200 -> 27:19.800] we're at nine o'clock, were no longer than 10 minutes.
[27:19.800 -> 27:21.420] You don't want to confuse anybody.
[27:21.420 -> 27:23.400] And there's only so much you can say to Rory McIlroy,
[27:23.400 -> 27:24.500] who's the best player in the world,
[27:24.500 -> 27:27.280] to Stephen Gallaher, who was the last guy in the team,
[27:27.280 -> 27:29.940] and his ranking was down around 50 in the world.
[27:29.940 -> 27:31.020] There's only so much you can say
[27:31.020 -> 27:32.400] that's going to relate to everybody.
[27:32.400 -> 27:34.560] Because ultimately, they're going out tomorrow
[27:34.560 -> 27:36.340] playing their own match.
[27:36.340 -> 27:37.360] And that's the other difficulty
[27:37.360 -> 27:38.680] about being a Ryder Cup captain,
[27:38.680 -> 27:41.140] is remember, there's not one arena.
[27:41.140 -> 27:43.520] There's four consecutive arenas going on at the same time.
[27:43.520 -> 27:46.160] So as a captain, you've got to keep your eye on all four of those.
[27:46.160 -> 27:48.440] It's one of the reasons why I actually wasn't on the golf course much.
[27:48.440 -> 27:51.080] I watched most of it on TV because there's only some way...
[27:51.080 -> 27:53.800] I mean, the one thing I hated as a player when I played Ryder Cup is you're playing
[27:53.800 -> 27:56.280] along and you're in your zone, four, five, six holes.
[27:56.280 -> 28:00.040] Next of all, a cart comes along, a blue cart of the captain comes flying up onto the hill
[28:00.040 -> 28:01.720] and he starts watching you.
[28:01.720 -> 28:04.000] And it just unnerves you a little bit.
[28:04.000 -> 28:07.200] So I made it my business to keep out of the damn way.
[28:07.200 -> 28:08.600] And as I said to the players,
[28:08.600 -> 28:09.640] when you get in the golf course,
[28:09.640 -> 28:10.840] and certainly the caddies,
[28:10.840 -> 28:13.040] I had a meeting with the caddies every night as well
[28:13.040 -> 28:14.360] before I had a meeting with the players,
[28:14.360 -> 28:15.720] separately with the caddies.
[28:15.720 -> 28:17.400] And what I promised them was,
[28:17.400 -> 28:20.220] I will not get involved in any communication
[28:20.220 -> 28:21.960] with any of the players during play.
[28:21.960 -> 28:22.800] The important thing,
[28:22.800 -> 28:24.740] and I heard it in one of your podcasts as well too before,
[28:24.740 -> 28:25.600] I forget who said it,
[28:25.600 -> 28:28.240] there's no one way of doing this, you know,
[28:28.240 -> 28:30.280] and you've got to figure out what's best for you.
[28:30.280 -> 28:32.440] And I knew that me going up to Rory McIlroy
[28:32.440 -> 28:33.740] in the middle of the ninth fairway and saying,
[28:33.740 -> 28:35.240] Rory, just be careful with the wind here,
[28:35.240 -> 28:37.280] because, you know, just watch the game in front,
[28:37.280 -> 28:38.280] and they kind of misjudge it.
[28:38.280 -> 28:40.400] You know, all they're going to do is confuse Rory.
[28:40.400 -> 28:41.880] Rory's the best player in the world.
[28:41.880 -> 28:43.600] He'd won two major championships that year.
[28:43.600 -> 28:45.800] Him and his caddy had obviously made brilliant decisions
[28:45.800 -> 28:46.640] to do that.
[28:46.640 -> 28:48.960] Why do I want to contaminate that dynamic?
[28:48.960 -> 28:50.320] So I kept out of the way.
[28:50.320 -> 28:52.560] The caddies felt really empowered because of that.
[28:52.560 -> 28:54.080] That's great that nobody's gonna come in
[28:54.080 -> 28:55.360] and kind of take care of the business
[28:55.360 -> 28:57.680] that we do and do so well.
[28:57.680 -> 28:59.000] One rider I put to them was,
[28:59.000 -> 29:00.840] if I need to speak to the player for something,
[29:00.840 -> 29:03.000] if something comes up and I do need to speak
[29:03.000 -> 29:04.360] to the player for a reason,
[29:04.360 -> 29:05.640] I'm gonna speak to you guys first, speak to the caddy first, and you let me know when is a good I do need to speak to the player for a reason, I'm going to speak to you guys first,
[29:05.640 -> 29:07.240] speak to the caddie first, and you let me know
[29:07.240 -> 29:09.260] when is a good time that I can speak to the player.
[29:09.260 -> 29:11.280] Goes back to the individual over the team.
[29:11.280 -> 29:13.740] It was important that I preserved the dynamic
[29:13.740 -> 29:16.420] that got them to be the best players in the world,
[29:16.420 -> 29:18.220] and that is a player and caddie in the golf course,
[29:18.220 -> 29:19.960] and it's not by somebody sitting over their shoulder
[29:19.960 -> 29:21.160] and giving them advice.
[29:21.160 -> 29:23.100] What I love about this, though, is that actually,
[29:23.100 -> 29:24.540] you're doing the best thing to try and win
[29:24.540 -> 29:25.260] the Ryder Cup,
[29:25.260 -> 29:28.200] right, but you're also taking quite a big personal risk
[29:28.200 -> 29:30.580] because the easiest thing for you to do
[29:30.580 -> 29:32.360] is to say, well, I just did exactly what the previous
[29:32.360 -> 29:34.600] captain of the Ryder Cup did and it was okay for them
[29:34.600 -> 29:37.140] and they did the same as, for you to come in and go,
[29:37.140 -> 29:38.860] I'm going to be brave enough and bold enough
[29:38.860 -> 29:41.800] to do this my way and I'm going to rewrite rules
[29:41.800 -> 29:43.840] that have been written for decades
[29:43.840 -> 29:45.740] of how you operate in the capacity
[29:45.740 -> 29:47.340] as a Ryder Cup captain.
[29:47.340 -> 29:49.580] That is a brave personal decision, isn't it?
[29:49.580 -> 29:52.180] It puts you in a vulnerable position in some ways
[29:52.180 -> 29:53.300] if you're not successful.
[29:53.300 -> 29:56.660] Yeah, I was basing it on my own personal experiences, Jake.
[29:56.660 -> 29:58.780] You know, I've played in three Ryder Cups
[29:58.780 -> 30:00.880] and I was always six to 12 on the team.
[30:00.880 -> 30:02.640] I was never a superstar on the team.
[30:02.640 -> 30:04.820] I based a lot of what I did on that.
[30:04.820 -> 30:08.520] Now, I also worked, one of the things I talked about a lot,
[30:08.520 -> 30:10.700] and one of the challenges, I had a number of challenges
[30:10.700 -> 30:13.260] when I come on as captain, because I kind of broke the mold
[30:13.260 -> 30:15.200] a little bit insofar as I wasn't a major winner,
[30:15.200 -> 30:17.420] and I wasn't a superstar on any of the team.
[30:17.420 -> 30:19.220] I wasn't one of the better players
[30:19.220 -> 30:20.940] on the three Riders Cup teams that I played.
[30:20.940 -> 30:23.340] So, normally the captains elevated
[30:23.340 -> 30:24.400] from one of those two things.
[30:24.400 -> 30:26.000] They were normally the better players.
[30:26.000 -> 30:30.400] And as much as I say I was a successful player and top 20 in the world, I wasn't the superstar
[30:30.400 -> 30:31.400] of the game.
[30:31.400 -> 30:34.840] So when I became Ryder Cup captain, it was a little bit of breaking the mold that I would
[30:34.840 -> 30:36.560] be voted to be the captain.
[30:36.560 -> 30:38.880] I had to get credibility with the players.
[30:38.880 -> 30:45.080] And I did that with my professional and personal relationships with the players.
[30:48.840 -> 30:51.600] And also my press conferences, they were very important. When I spoke publicly, I realized I was also speaking
[30:51.600 -> 30:55.540] to the players and I saw that as me on it,
[30:55.540 -> 30:57.180] really well prepared for my press conference
[30:57.180 -> 30:58.620] and getting some key messaging out,
[30:58.620 -> 31:00.380] knowing the players were gonna watch it.
[31:00.380 -> 31:03.380] And one of the messages that I really got out was
[31:03.380 -> 31:05.520] a template, which is a little bit contrary
[31:05.520 -> 31:08.980] to the point you just made there, is that, look,
[31:08.980 -> 31:11.940] I've been involved in 14 teams, or at that stage, 13,
[31:11.940 -> 31:13.320] and we'd won 12.
[31:13.320 -> 31:17.660] I had been either playing under, who captained,
[31:17.660 -> 31:20.780] or I had captained all the greats of European golf
[31:20.780 -> 31:21.980] over the last three decades.
[31:21.980 -> 31:23.340] Whether that be Seve Ballesteros,
[31:23.340 -> 31:24.820] whether it be Nick Fowler, whether it be Ian Wilson,
[31:24.820 -> 31:25.780] whether it be Bernard Langer, whether it be Rory Mackler, whether it be Ian Wilson, whether it be Bernard Langer,
[31:25.780 -> 31:26.620] whether it be Rory Mackerel,
[31:26.620 -> 31:27.560] wherever you want to go,
[31:27.560 -> 31:30.240] I've either played under them as a captain
[31:30.240 -> 31:32.280] or I had captained them myself.
[31:32.280 -> 31:34.720] I said, there is a template.
[31:34.720 -> 31:36.840] I see what the template to success is
[31:36.840 -> 31:39.760] and why we're so dominant in the Ryder Cups in Europe.
[31:39.760 -> 31:41.520] Of course, I'm not going to tell you what it is.
[31:41.520 -> 31:42.720] I know what it is.
[31:42.720 -> 31:44.240] And that's how I'm going to-
[31:44.240 -> 31:50.160] That's you asking for trust though, isn't it? Yeah in a public forum pretty much pretty much and also the fact that I've got it
[31:50.520 -> 31:54.480] For them to trust me. I've got it might not the playing record
[31:54.640 -> 31:58.440] But again, we can talk about that more and it's got a little bee in my bottle about this
[31:58.560 -> 32:03.520] Show me the correlation between the better the player the better the captain. There's no correlation
[32:03.520 -> 32:06.300] Let's link it to another sport, football.
[32:06.300 -> 32:08.200] Arsene Wenger, not a great player, great manager.
[32:08.200 -> 32:10.520] Sir Alex Ferguson, I know you're very close with,
[32:10.520 -> 32:12.560] wasn't a great footballer.
[32:12.560 -> 32:15.940] What was the biggest lesson you learned from Sir Alex?
[32:15.940 -> 32:17.680] Basically, when I became captain,
[32:17.680 -> 32:19.520] I sat down really honest with myself
[32:19.520 -> 32:23.140] and wrote down what my traits were
[32:23.140 -> 32:24.960] and also where my weaknesses were,
[32:24.960 -> 32:25.020] and focused on my weaknesses were.
[32:25.020 -> 32:26.720] And focused on my weaknesses.
[32:26.720 -> 32:27.640] What have I got to do here?
[32:27.640 -> 32:28.980] One of them was the credibility thing,
[32:28.980 -> 32:31.040] so I had a little strategy for that.
[32:31.040 -> 32:33.740] One of them was, I was a six to 12 player
[32:33.740 -> 32:35.660] in the three Riders Cups I played.
[32:35.660 -> 32:36.700] I was that soldier.
[32:36.700 -> 32:38.420] I can manage six to 12 easily.
[32:38.420 -> 32:39.580] I know exactly how to feel.
[32:39.580 -> 32:41.440] I know exactly what it's like when the captain says,
[32:41.440 -> 32:42.920] you're only playing three matches out of five,
[32:42.920 -> 32:44.140] or you're playing two out of five,
[32:44.140 -> 32:45.960] or you're not playing tomorrow morning.
[32:45.960 -> 32:48.440] I was there, and I've gotta have empathy
[32:48.440 -> 32:49.560] for all of those guys.
[32:49.560 -> 32:51.660] So one of the things I wanted to find out was
[32:51.660 -> 32:53.120] how do you manage superstars?
[32:53.120 -> 32:54.600] Rory McIlroy, he's the best player in the world,
[32:54.600 -> 32:56.400] he's won two majors this year.
[32:56.400 -> 32:57.840] So that was one challenge.
[32:57.840 -> 33:00.520] Another one was communication to the players.
[33:00.520 -> 33:02.620] You know, how do you give a player bad news?
[33:02.620 -> 33:04.180] How do you deliver it to keep them on side
[33:04.180 -> 33:05.920] for the next session? So, you know, I sat down give a player bad news? How do you deliver it to keep them on side for the next session?
[33:05.920 -> 33:08.200] So, you know, I sat down, I thought about these things,
[33:08.200 -> 33:11.240] and Ferguson had, Alex, I should call him,
[33:11.240 -> 33:13.560] has, sorry Alex, I should call him,
[33:13.560 -> 33:15.880] had retired a year before, and I'd played golf
[33:15.880 -> 33:17.820] with him 10 years previously in a pro-am,
[33:17.820 -> 33:19.600] but I hadn't seen him in the 10 years.
[33:19.600 -> 33:22.240] So I got his phone number, and I got hold of him,
[33:22.240 -> 33:24.120] initially through email, and then I called him,
[33:24.120 -> 33:26.720] and he's like, look, Paul, look I'm busy, look I've just
[33:26.720 -> 33:30.840] retired, I've a lot going on, I don't know if this is gonna be right for me and
[33:30.840 -> 33:34.680] I said look would you mind if we just met, if I could come up to Manchester and
[33:34.680 -> 33:37.560] just meet you for lunch would that be okay? He said okay look, he said come up
[33:37.560 -> 33:40.480] there's a little hotel I use in Alderley Edge for my meetings, let's come there
[33:40.480 -> 33:43.680] and fly up and if you make your way there I'll have lunch with you and we
[33:43.680 -> 33:46.880] got a date and then I went and I had all my notebook out and prepared.
[33:46.880 -> 33:49.360] We sat down, we had lunch, and I had to basically
[33:49.360 -> 33:52.520] tell him the idea that A, I just wanted to pick his brain
[33:52.520 -> 33:54.600] on a couple of things, and B, I wanted him to talk
[33:54.600 -> 33:56.240] to the players on the Tuesday night.
[33:56.240 -> 33:57.400] We normally had a guest speaker in,
[33:57.400 -> 33:58.900] I thought he would be good.
[33:58.900 -> 34:00.760] This is what was so brilliant about him.
[34:00.760 -> 34:01.960] Rory McIlroy, right?
[34:01.960 -> 34:04.580] Best player in the world, number one player at the time.
[34:04.580 -> 34:05.620] And I explained where I come from,Ilroy, right, best player in the world, number one player at the time, and I explain
[34:05.620 -> 34:07.740] where I come from, and bam, bam, bam.
[34:07.740 -> 34:11.860] The really greats, Ronaldo, Beckham, the Giggs,
[34:11.860 -> 34:14.920] you're going into a big game, big championship game,
[34:14.920 -> 34:17.960] or a big European game, how do you manage them?
[34:17.960 -> 34:19.240] What do you say in the media?
[34:19.240 -> 34:20.280] What do you say to them personally?
[34:20.280 -> 34:21.880] What kind of pressure are they gonna be under?
[34:21.880 -> 34:23.320] What are they gonna feel?
[34:23.320 -> 34:26.560] What are the rest of the players gonna feel about them them? Is there going to be more pressure on them?
[34:26.560 -> 34:28.480] What do you do?
[34:28.480 -> 34:29.720] And this is your answer.
[34:29.720 -> 34:31.720] This is where he was so clever.
[34:31.720 -> 34:35.080] Every time I asked him a question, he said,
[34:35.080 -> 34:36.480] what do you think?
[34:36.480 -> 34:38.760] Before I answer that, what do you think?
[34:38.760 -> 34:40.680] And then I said, well, I'm asking you.
[34:40.680 -> 34:42.040] I think that's why I'm not.
[34:42.040 -> 34:43.520] No, no, he says, you've got an instinct.
[34:43.520 -> 34:46.000] Come on, you've captained before, what do you think?
[34:46.000 -> 34:47.600] And I said, well, I was thinking this
[34:47.600 -> 34:48.920] and I was thinking that.
[34:48.920 -> 34:50.680] And he went, that's fabulous.
[34:50.680 -> 34:52.440] That's absolutely what you should do.
[34:52.440 -> 34:54.440] Can I just add that maybe just do this
[34:54.440 -> 34:56.480] when you're doing that, just put that on the back of it.
[34:56.480 -> 34:58.320] So what he was doing was answering the question,
[34:58.320 -> 34:59.640] but also empowering me.
[34:59.640 -> 35:01.920] I was walking out of those meetings with him thinking,
[35:01.920 -> 35:06.080] I met him twice, thinking I was 10 foot tall.
[35:06.080 -> 35:10.000] He had empowered me that I was on the right tracks here.
[35:10.000 -> 35:11.320] So that's what he.
[35:11.320 -> 35:12.900] He was managing me.
[35:14.160 -> 35:15.580] He's still stitching in the information
[35:15.580 -> 35:17.120] by saying a little bit to add.
[35:17.120 -> 35:17.960] Yeah.
[35:17.960 -> 35:19.000] But making you feel great.
[35:19.000 -> 35:19.840] Yeah.
[35:19.840 -> 35:21.080] But I also read an interview where
[35:21.080 -> 35:23.320] that was a similar technique that,
[35:23.320 -> 35:24.900] is it Alathabal did with you
[35:24.900 -> 35:25.000] when you went and asked him for advice Rwyf hefyd wedi gweld unrhyw ddynion sydd yn ymwneud â'r technigaeth sydd wedi'i wneud gyda chi yn y Latherball
[35:25.000 -> 35:32.000] pan oeddech chi'n mynd a gofyn iddo gyda'i gwybodaeth, fe fyddai'n gofyn i chi beth byddwch chi'n ei wneud, beth yw eich ystyried ar gyfer hynny?
[35:32.000 -> 35:39.000] A oes yna ddynion cydweithredol y gafodd gennych gyda'ch mentorion a'ch hyfforddwyr i ddefnyddio'r term honno?
[35:39.000 -> 35:47.000] Ie, oherwydd eich ystyried yw'n bwysig. Ac os ydych chi'n rhoi'r gwybodaeth i rywun, mae'n bwysig cael eu hystyried yn gyntaf. Your instinct is always, your instinct is important. And if you're giving advice to somebody, it's important to get their instinct first.
[35:47.000 -> 35:49.880] I feel, if you're managing somebody, what do they think?
[35:49.880 -> 35:52.360] For example, when I was talking to the players
[35:52.360 -> 35:54.600] about potential partners, I never started with,
[35:54.600 -> 35:55.440] this is what you want to do,
[35:55.440 -> 35:56.280] this is who you're going to play with,
[35:56.280 -> 35:57.240] this is what you think.
[35:57.240 -> 36:00.160] I think it's important that you get the feedback
[36:00.160 -> 36:01.940] from them first, and then you work it
[36:01.940 -> 36:03.000] and you tailor it in that way.
[36:03.000 -> 36:05.600] Because it's like, even like when I play in a
[36:05.600 -> 36:08.120] pro-am and I'm playing with a handicapped
[36:08.120 -> 36:09.560] golfer and he says Paul what do you
[36:09.560 -> 36:11.600] think can you read this putt for me and
[36:11.600 -> 36:13.360] I look at the putt and I'll say right
[36:13.360 -> 36:14.880] it's a ball outside right lip but I
[36:14.880 -> 36:16.080] won't say it to him I say what do you
[36:16.080 -> 36:17.720] think he says well I think it's gonna
[36:17.720 -> 36:18.960] come right to left I says yeah I think
[36:18.960 -> 36:20.920] it is too how much do you think he says
[36:20.920 -> 36:23.680] well maybe three balls I said maybe not
[36:23.680 -> 36:26.000] quite that much but I like your idea that's coming.
[36:26.000 -> 36:29.160] So basically, he's now doing what he sees himself.
[36:29.160 -> 36:31.820] How do you manage the superstars then, like the Roarers?
[36:31.820 -> 36:33.680] Would you use that technique with them?
[36:33.680 -> 36:35.480] Yeah, yeah, very much so.
[36:35.480 -> 36:36.580] It's got to come from them.
[36:36.580 -> 36:37.660] They've got to be bought into it,
[36:37.660 -> 36:39.580] and their ideas are really important.
[36:39.580 -> 36:42.400] The authoritarian, this is what you're going to do.
[36:42.400 -> 36:45.100] Managing millennials, if you want to call them,
[36:45.100 -> 36:47.900] or people of this era, is that I wasn't authoritarian.
[36:47.900 -> 36:52.060] I was very unified in consulting in terms of my captaincy.
[36:52.060 -> 36:55.000] It wasn't a, sometimes I had to box a bit clever.
[36:55.000 -> 36:57.300] If they said this and I really didn't want that,
[36:57.300 -> 36:59.500] I had to move them into another place.
[36:59.500 -> 37:01.340] And I did that on a number of occasions.
[37:01.340 -> 37:03.180] How would you do that?
[37:03.180 -> 37:06.160] By not making a decision right there and then.
[37:06.160 -> 37:08.040] You know, we've got some examples of that as well too.
[37:08.040 -> 37:09.520] You know, I mean, there was,
[37:09.520 -> 37:11.880] Podrick Harrington was a vice captain of mine.
[37:11.880 -> 37:13.200] Sergio Garcia was on the team.
[37:13.200 -> 37:15.160] Podrick and Sergio didn't see eye to eye.
[37:15.160 -> 37:17.280] I grew up with Podrick, he's a great friend of mine.
[37:17.280 -> 37:18.760] I knew he was gonna be really valuable to me
[37:18.760 -> 37:19.600] as a vice captain.
[37:19.600 -> 37:21.040] I wanted him in the team room,
[37:21.040 -> 37:22.440] but Sergio was on the team
[37:22.440 -> 37:24.400] and there was obviously bad blood between them.
[37:24.400 -> 37:28.920] That was quite clear, it was publicly in there. But I, before I could ask Pardit
[37:28.920 -> 37:34.080] to be, I had to clear it with Sergio. And it initially started with a no, but over a
[37:34.080 -> 37:39.160] period of a couple of weeks, we got to a place where it will be fine. And then they of course
[37:39.160 -> 37:43.920] came into the team room and because the, the boundaries were set, they got on great. There
[37:43.920 -> 37:46.320] was no problem. And now, you know, they're back normal,
[37:46.320 -> 37:47.640] good friendship with each other.
[37:47.640 -> 37:50.620] And so, I saw my job as a captain.
[37:50.620 -> 37:52.720] Give clarity, give simplicity,
[37:52.720 -> 37:55.640] create a really strong environment,
[37:55.640 -> 37:59.800] inspire them, and then get the hell out of the way.
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[40:15.720 -> 40:21.340] Love your criteria things that you were looking at in terms of how do you handle a superstar? And I think you've given us some fascinating insights there. What did you learn about delivering bad news then?
[40:22.340 -> 40:25.080] Always have some good news to go with the bad news.
[40:25.080 -> 40:29.360] For example that example I gave earlier is a really good one with Graham.
[40:29.360 -> 40:35.000] Sitting down with Graham, big ego, former US Open champion, hero the last time we
[40:35.000 -> 40:41.280] played at home, coming in as a senior guy expecting to play all five matches, me
[40:41.280 -> 40:45.280] seeing him in a duffing row where I wanted to look after Victor in the
[40:45.280 -> 40:50.120] foursomes but being prepared with my conversation with him that look if you
[40:50.120 -> 40:54.040] do this and play with Victor the first two days the carrot at the end of the
[40:54.040 -> 40:57.120] stick will be I'll put you out number one in the singles. I really believe the
[40:57.120 -> 40:59.960] Street Fighters are best number ones not the best player. His immediate thought
[40:59.960 -> 41:03.640] was what will Rory say if I'm playing number one? I mean at that stage as well
[41:03.640 -> 41:05.460] I mean you talk about managing dynamics
[41:05.460 -> 41:07.000] and again this is all public knowledge
[41:07.000 -> 41:10.240] but Rory and Graham were in the high court
[41:10.240 -> 41:11.320] against each other at the time
[41:11.320 -> 41:12.840] with a management dispute that was going on
[41:12.840 -> 41:14.120] on either side of the fence.
[41:14.120 -> 41:17.280] So I was managing that situation at the same time too.
[41:17.280 -> 41:19.500] So you know there's always challenges you go on
[41:19.500 -> 41:21.680] and it's important that you keep your independence
[41:21.680 -> 41:23.480] as a manager of both players
[41:23.480 -> 41:26.400] and at Portnoy I didn't take sides in that regard.
[41:26.400 -> 41:27.640] So immediately when I said,
[41:27.640 -> 41:30.000] you know, we'll put you out number one.
[41:30.000 -> 41:31.240] And this is well in advance of the Router Cup.
[41:31.240 -> 41:32.560] This is not a decision the night before.
[41:32.560 -> 41:34.800] It was important the players had real clarity
[41:34.800 -> 41:37.480] well before the week started as to what the role was,
[41:37.480 -> 41:39.480] in my opinion, because that's what I wanted.
[41:39.480 -> 41:41.600] There's enough turmoil going on during the week of it
[41:41.600 -> 41:43.120] when they have to blend and eat with people
[41:43.120 -> 41:44.560] and do things that they normally do
[41:44.560 -> 41:46.420] without putting in the turmoil of decisions
[41:46.420 -> 41:47.760] being made at the last minute.
[41:47.760 -> 41:49.280] So that's why decisions and clarity
[41:49.280 -> 41:50.280] have to be given earlier.
[41:50.280 -> 41:52.340] So the carrot at the end of the stick was,
[41:52.340 -> 41:54.680] I'll put you out number one in the singles
[41:54.680 -> 41:56.640] because I believe the street fighters
[41:56.640 -> 41:58.160] are best at number one,
[41:58.160 -> 41:59.960] and this is what I genuinely believed.
[41:59.960 -> 42:02.440] And you're our best street fighter on the team.
[42:02.440 -> 42:04.680] Again, every single thing I said to any player,
[42:04.680 -> 42:06.700] I believed it. it wasn't BS,
[42:06.700 -> 42:09.220] because I knew, we can all smell BS,
[42:09.220 -> 42:11.560] we can all smell it, and if somebody's giving us the BS,
[42:11.560 -> 42:13.260] we're gonna smell it, he's just playing me here,
[42:13.260 -> 42:15.760] and it was important that I didn't do that.
[42:15.760 -> 42:17.620] The final thing I said to get him over the line was,
[42:17.620 -> 42:19.160] Graham, you can be guaranteed,
[42:19.160 -> 42:21.100] the Americans are gonna do one of two things
[42:21.100 -> 42:22.980] for the number one player in the singles.
[42:22.980 -> 42:25.480] They're either gonna A, put out their best player,
[42:25.480 -> 42:28.240] or B, put out a player who's playing the best.
[42:28.240 -> 42:30.160] And the chances are that player who's playing the best
[42:30.160 -> 42:32.680] will have played 72 holes over the first two days.
[42:32.680 -> 42:33.800] You've only played 36.
[42:33.800 -> 42:36.080] You're gonna be fresh against whoever you play.
[42:36.080 -> 42:38.400] So the job was done and off he went.
[42:38.400 -> 42:39.220] He played with Victor.
[42:39.220 -> 42:40.800] They were absolutely fabulous together.
[42:40.800 -> 42:42.560] They won both of the matches comfortably.
[42:42.560 -> 42:43.560] And then he went on to his singles
[42:43.560 -> 42:45.120] and beat Jordan'sight in the singles.
[42:45.120 -> 42:47.440] Because your job really is to make them confident
[42:47.440 -> 42:49.080] without being complacent.
[42:49.080 -> 42:49.900] Absolutely.
[42:49.900 -> 42:51.240] And there's a great story in your book
[42:51.240 -> 42:54.040] when you talk about the difference between 2002 and 2012
[42:54.040 -> 42:58.080] and you talk about whether expecting to win is dangerous.
[42:58.080 -> 42:58.920] Yeah.
[42:58.920 -> 42:59.760] Can you talk to us about that?
[42:59.760 -> 43:01.800] Oh, that's the big key.
[43:01.800 -> 43:04.000] Expectation is a difficult place to be.
[43:05.140 -> 43:06.720] A very, very difficult place to be.
[43:06.720 -> 43:09.920] And in 14, when I was a captain,
[43:09.920 -> 43:13.440] we were probably, well, it was kind of even money
[43:13.440 -> 43:16.560] as to favorites, and before we were always underdogs.
[43:16.560 -> 43:20.220] So again, Alex Ferguson, that was one of the questions
[43:20.220 -> 43:21.420] I had for him as well, too.
[43:21.420 -> 43:22.380] You know, as I say, I went up to him,
[43:22.380 -> 43:24.760] prepared my challenges of where we were weak as a team
[43:24.760 -> 43:26.920] or where I was weak as well too, you know, as I say, I went up to him, prepared my challenges of where we were weak as a team or where I was weak as a captain
[43:26.920 -> 43:30.000] and get some insights from him.
[43:30.000 -> 43:32.920] And one of them was this thing about expectation.
[43:32.920 -> 43:35.480] He talked to me about redirecting the mindsets
[43:35.480 -> 43:37.160] to be the hunter and not the hunted.
[43:37.160 -> 43:39.600] It's much easier to be the hunter
[43:39.600 -> 43:40.800] than the person who's been hunted.
[43:40.800 -> 43:42.280] It's much easier to be coming this way.
[43:42.280 -> 43:44.120] You know, a shark attacks from the bottom in the ocean.
[43:44.120 -> 43:45.280] He comes upwards. It's much easier to be going that way. You know, a shark attacks from the bottom in the ocean. He comes upwards.
[43:45.280 -> 43:47.160] It's much easier to be going that way.
[43:47.160 -> 43:48.760] Trying to defend an elite on the last day
[43:48.760 -> 43:50.840] in a golf tournament for anybody.
[43:50.840 -> 43:53.120] Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods will tell you,
[43:53.120 -> 43:55.700] the hardest thing to do is defend an elite on the last day.
[43:55.700 -> 43:57.680] And he talked about, you know, what drove him
[43:57.680 -> 43:59.080] every year when they won the championship
[43:59.080 -> 44:01.680] for Man United was, we're still, that's over lads.
[44:01.680 -> 44:02.860] We're still chasing Liverpool.
[44:02.860 -> 44:04.400] Look how many championships Liverpool have got.
[44:04.400 -> 44:05.720] Man United haven't got as many, right?
[44:05.720 -> 44:09.140] So even when man United were 15 points 20 points clear in the Premier League
[44:09.680 -> 44:13.200] His mindset to the players is we might be ahead of this year
[44:13.200 -> 44:18.660] But we're talking about a war not a battle and they're still ahead in the number of trophies. They've won. Absolutely
[44:18.660 -> 44:24.220] Wow, so what I did Jake was I'm a very visual person. Yeah, I employed a guy called Nick Bradley
[44:24.220 -> 44:26.800] who's a golf coach, but also an unbelievable artist and
[44:27.840 -> 44:33.000] The six challenges that we faced I had massive images that represented each one of these challenges
[44:33.000 -> 44:37.400] And I had them positioned around the in interior of our team rooms
[44:37.520 -> 44:42.780] Whether it be the meeting room whether it be the corridors walking down to their bedrooms or whether it be the the locker rooms
[44:42.780 -> 44:45.200] I had these massive images and picture that there were
[44:45.200 -> 44:48.240] probably two, three meters by three meters, massive.
[44:48.240 -> 44:49.760] Be the rock when the storm comes.
[44:49.760 -> 44:50.800] That was one of them, yeah.
[44:50.800 -> 44:52.440] That was about resilience, yeah.
[44:52.440 -> 44:55.120] But the one that I had behind me, I had a lectern
[44:55.120 -> 44:57.360] and the team meeting room, I wanted it to be a really
[44:57.360 -> 44:58.680] small, intimate room.
[44:58.680 -> 45:00.160] And it was a really small room.
[45:00.160 -> 45:03.640] I had a horseshoe couch where the players sat on.
[45:03.640 -> 45:05.000] Actually in the book, you see the picture. That's in the team room. That's the horseshoe. Ferguson was sitting where the players sat on. Actually in the book you see the picture.
[45:05.000 -> 45:06.360] That's in the team room.
[45:06.360 -> 45:07.200] That's the horseshoe.
[45:07.200 -> 45:08.560] Ferguson was sitting in the middle of it.
[45:08.560 -> 45:10.880] And then at the back were the five vice captains
[45:10.880 -> 45:13.480] sitting on stools and really strong imagery around
[45:13.480 -> 45:15.880] and the carpet was done in the European colors.
[45:17.000 -> 45:18.480] I spent a lot of money in interior design.
[45:18.480 -> 45:20.120] I'm a great believer in creating a platform
[45:20.120 -> 45:22.640] and the environment to be inspired in.
[45:22.640 -> 45:24.280] But behind me, behind my lectern,
[45:24.280 -> 45:25.680] which had the Right of of Cup logo on it,
[45:25.680 -> 45:27.880] that I get my meeting every night and my notebook on,
[45:27.880 -> 45:29.520] was this huge big image,
[45:29.520 -> 45:32.560] and it was a faceless hand holding the Rite of Cup.
[45:32.560 -> 45:34.000] We call it the Role of Honor.
[45:34.000 -> 45:38.400] And out of that was a big scroll, a gold Role of Honor.
[45:38.400 -> 45:41.360] And represented on that was every year,
[45:41.360 -> 45:44.040] every edition of the Rite of Cup since 1927,
[45:44.040 -> 45:47.120] and a flag beside it as to who won.
[45:47.120 -> 45:48.900] So the point being, as you get,
[45:48.900 -> 45:50.400] and obviously told this to the players,
[45:50.400 -> 45:52.920] as you get towards the end and you look at recent,
[45:52.920 -> 45:54.560] I think we'd won seven of the previous line
[45:54.560 -> 45:57.720] when I was captain, that's what brought the expectation.
[45:57.720 -> 46:01.760] And as you go, you can see of the last nine editions,
[46:01.760 -> 46:03.740] there's seven blue flags.
[46:03.740 -> 46:05.760] The point being, yes guys, yeah, look, we've won seven of the last nine editions, there's seven blue flags. The point being, yes guys, yeah, look,
[46:05.760 -> 46:07.280] we've won seven of the last nine,
[46:07.280 -> 46:10.120] but look how much American flag is over here.
[46:10.120 -> 46:11.920] We're chasing them, they're not chasing us.
[46:11.920 -> 46:13.480] So you're removing the expectation.
[46:13.480 -> 46:14.760] We're going on the front foot,
[46:14.760 -> 46:17.000] we're not going on the back foot defending here at home.
[46:17.000 -> 46:19.480] We're on the front foot, we are chasing down
[46:19.480 -> 46:21.520] the might of America, the dominance that they've had
[46:21.520 -> 46:22.760] in the history of the game.
[46:22.760 -> 46:25.680] But what I love about that image
[46:25.680 -> 46:29.960] and the other very visual images that you described is,
[46:29.960 -> 46:31.280] it wasn't a gimmick.
[46:31.280 -> 46:34.680] So, you know, you go into some gyms or some clubs
[46:34.680 -> 46:37.760] and they've got like bland motivational quotes on the wall,
[46:37.760 -> 46:39.720] like winners never quit and quitters never win
[46:39.720 -> 46:42.720] and things like that, that actually don't mean anything.
[46:42.720 -> 46:45.840] I think what you did was you took it to that next level
[46:45.840 -> 46:49.600] of making it very, very specific to the immediate challenge
[46:49.600 -> 46:51.520] that they were facing.
[46:52.600 -> 46:55.520] It's got to tie in, Damien, and it's got to be really simple
[46:55.520 -> 46:59.480] and really clear because the, not the mistake,
[46:59.480 -> 47:02.120] but the tendency and the easy thing you can do
[47:02.120 -> 47:05.260] when you become a captain is talk too much
[47:05.260 -> 47:07.120] and create so many areas.
[47:07.120 -> 47:09.500] Go back to the point that Corey Pavin made
[47:09.500 -> 47:10.940] in different reference.
[47:10.940 -> 47:12.800] Make sure the big thing is the big thing.
[47:12.800 -> 47:14.620] And I wanted to have big things
[47:14.620 -> 47:16.960] and constantly focus on the big things.
[47:16.960 -> 47:19.960] And as much as marginal gains in this world are important,
[47:19.960 -> 47:21.760] I'm not particularly interested
[47:21.760 -> 47:23.360] in marginal gains at this stage.
[47:23.360 -> 47:26.560] I need to, if I get the big things in place, we'll win.
[47:26.560 -> 47:29.400] See, there's a great, there's an athletic correspondent,
[47:29.400 -> 47:31.200] a guy called Verne Gambetta,
[47:31.200 -> 47:34.440] that's regarded as a legend in the world of sort of like,
[47:34.440 -> 47:35.760] health and fitness.
[47:35.760 -> 47:36.600] As you're talking, Paul,
[47:36.600 -> 47:38.200] I'm getting memories of what he told us, right?
[47:38.200 -> 47:39.560] He says, forget marginal gains,
[47:39.560 -> 47:41.400] just be brilliant at the basics.
[47:41.400 -> 47:43.200] That's 99% of performance,
[47:43.200 -> 47:44.480] is just getting the basics right.
[47:44.480 -> 47:45.380] The fundamentals.
[47:45.380 -> 47:48.000] Yeah, the fundamentals, and I'm hearing that
[47:48.000 -> 47:49.580] come across really loud and clear.
[47:49.580 -> 47:51.520] Yeah, absolutely, and that's what Jack Nicklaus,
[47:51.520 -> 47:53.320] if you ask him what the secret to his success was,
[47:53.320 -> 47:54.880] he said strong fundamentals.
[47:54.880 -> 47:55.720] Right.
[47:55.720 -> 47:56.880] But that's in a technical sense,
[47:56.880 -> 47:58.400] but also I think in managing a team
[47:58.400 -> 48:00.280] and going back to the word of template,
[48:00.280 -> 48:02.520] you know, I identified what the template was,
[48:02.520 -> 48:04.920] what we did in Europe, and all the teams
[48:04.920 -> 48:05.800] that I was involved in and lucky to be involved in so much success, what we did in Europe, and all the teams that I was involved in,
[48:05.800 -> 48:08.120] and lucky to be involved in so much success,
[48:08.120 -> 48:08.960] what did we do?
[48:08.960 -> 48:10.040] And I dragged them out,
[48:10.040 -> 48:12.000] and on one side of the page I had our challenges,
[48:12.000 -> 48:13.640] and the other side of the page I had,
[48:13.640 -> 48:15.120] what did we do?
[48:15.120 -> 48:16.640] What was the template?
[48:16.640 -> 48:18.720] And number one, more than anything else,
[48:18.720 -> 48:20.760] number one, and the thing that I referenced
[48:20.760 -> 48:22.280] when we brought everybody from the interior,
[48:22.280 -> 48:24.320] there was 72 people behind the scenes
[48:24.320 -> 48:25.600] as part of the European team that week
[48:25.600 -> 48:28.640] from doctors and physios and coaches and caddies and players
[48:28.640 -> 48:31.320] and when I did the initial talk on a Monday night
[48:31.320 -> 48:35.480] welcoming everybody, all the message I wanted to get across,
[48:35.480 -> 48:38.160] a number one fundamental is fun.
[48:38.160 -> 48:41.040] If we think that this is the most important thing
[48:41.040 -> 48:42.640] we're ever going to do in our lives,
[48:42.640 -> 48:43.800] we're not going to perform.
[48:43.800 -> 48:45.880] We're going to be tight with expectation.
[48:45.880 -> 48:47.240] We've got to remove that.
[48:47.240 -> 48:49.000] I struggle with that a bit,
[48:49.000 -> 48:51.320] because I love watching the Ryder Cup,
[48:51.320 -> 48:52.840] and I love watching the Ryder Cup
[48:52.840 -> 48:54.360] because I love the ruthlessness
[48:54.360 -> 48:57.760] when it really bloody matters up against the opposition.
[48:57.760 -> 49:01.440] So you've created this beautiful sort of family atmosphere.
[49:01.440 -> 49:02.520] It's really caring.
[49:02.520 -> 49:04.000] You've spent time getting to know your golfers.
[49:04.000 -> 49:05.900] You've got to their heart not to their head
[49:05.900 -> 49:10.340] You've paired them with people that you know work you've solved rifts that have been going on for years
[49:10.340 -> 49:14.520] You've had Sir Alex Ferguson coming in to lift them up. You've created a caring atmosphere
[49:14.880 -> 49:20.080] But when it matters and you're 10 feet away from holding a pot to win the Ryder Cup for Europe
[49:20.520 -> 49:23.180] You need to be ruthless. Where did that come in?
[49:24.060 -> 49:25.840] Couldn't agree more with you on the ruthlessness.
[49:25.840 -> 49:26.760] I'm a great believer in that.
[49:26.760 -> 49:29.040] Like I said earlier, I love the heart, the ball,
[49:29.040 -> 49:29.880] that kind of player.
[49:29.880 -> 49:32.700] I'm absolutely all over that more than anything else.
[49:32.700 -> 49:36.820] But as a performer, if you go on and try too hard,
[49:36.820 -> 49:38.120] I spent too much of my career,
[49:38.120 -> 49:40.120] my own personal career trying too hard.
[49:41.040 -> 49:43.320] And interesting, listening to Johnny Wilkinson
[49:43.320 -> 49:46.280] in your earlier thing, and it absolutely resonated with me.
[49:46.280 -> 49:49.560] If you go in burdened with tightness of,
[49:49.560 -> 49:51.980] I want to do this so badly it hurts,
[49:51.980 -> 49:53.400] you're not gonna perform.
[49:53.400 -> 49:54.760] There's gotta be a freedom there.
[49:54.760 -> 49:59.120] And for me, that element of fun is what unburdens you.
[49:59.120 -> 50:00.720] I'll just give you a little example
[50:00.720 -> 50:03.080] of how I was captain brilliantly by Sam Torrance
[50:03.080 -> 50:04.640] in my first Ryder Cup.
[50:04.640 -> 50:07.860] Without going into the whole story, Sam gave me a huge role on the
[50:07.860 -> 50:10.600] Sunday at number nine and the singles because he felt that was going to be an
[50:10.600 -> 50:14.520] important position if we were going to win and I was playing Jim Furyk and
[50:14.520 -> 50:19.720] imagine a Ryder Cup's on the line 18th hole in the Belfry the wind is blowing
[50:19.720 -> 50:23.640] hard right to left I've missed a green left with a three iron Jim has missed it
[50:23.640 -> 50:28.080] left there's 50,000 people around this hole, the right of cup is on the line, I'm incredibly
[50:28.080 -> 50:32.800] nervous as I'm walking up to the bridge having hit quite a poor second shot, under pressure,
[50:32.800 -> 50:36.960] walk up to the bridge and Sam Torrance the captain was leaning on the bridge with his
[50:36.960 -> 50:43.520] arms folded, with his sweater on kind of over his shoulders. As I got to the bridge, looked
[50:43.520 -> 50:47.560] up at him, he stared at me with this massive smile on his face.
[50:47.560 -> 50:50.440] Massive smile, under incredible pressure.
[50:50.440 -> 50:53.280] And it was like, as I got to him,
[50:53.280 -> 50:54.280] he put his arm on my shoulder,
[50:54.280 -> 50:55.740] walked across the bridge at me, said,
[50:55.740 -> 50:58.960] do this for me, do this for your teammates.
[50:58.960 -> 51:00.960] Up and down, we went to ride a cup.
[51:00.960 -> 51:02.960] Now, rather than getting off the other side of the bridge,
[51:02.960 -> 51:11.480] thinking, oh my God, oh my God, I felt the opposite. I felt so unburdened. Wow. And I felt exhilarated and I felt empowered.
[51:11.480 -> 51:15.280] That could create so much fun for so many people by doing it. I know exactly what you
[51:15.280 -> 51:18.960] mean. And as a result, you know, I chipped it up and I hold a putt and I hold that putt
[51:18.960 -> 51:22.560] with so much freedom, almost to the point that I didn't care if I hold it. Now that's
[51:22.560 -> 51:25.640] a great place. Talk to any really elite athlete,
[51:25.640 -> 51:27.240] that's when you perform your best.
[51:27.240 -> 51:28.480] When you almost don't care,
[51:28.480 -> 51:30.120] you're so caught up in the moment
[51:30.120 -> 51:31.980] of doing what you need to do
[51:31.980 -> 51:34.620] that you're not result-oriented,
[51:34.620 -> 51:36.160] you are performance-oriented.
[51:36.160 -> 51:38.400] The total opposite of when John Wilkinson said,
[51:38.400 -> 51:40.800] I thought that struggling and sacrificing
[51:40.800 -> 51:43.760] and finding things difficult
[51:43.760 -> 51:45.340] would create the great moment.
[51:45.340 -> 51:47.680] He realized all that that does is create more struggle
[51:47.680 -> 51:48.680] and more sacrifice.
[51:48.680 -> 51:49.840] Stress, tightness.
[51:49.840 -> 51:52.020] Exactly, and he said if it's not about you,
[51:52.020 -> 51:54.100] he said when kickers walk up, as you've heard,
[51:54.100 -> 51:55.520] as soon as you walk up to take a kick
[51:55.520 -> 51:57.980] in the other fly half, suddenly you struggle,
[51:57.980 -> 52:00.120] you get tight, because it's about you.
[52:00.120 -> 52:01.120] Absolutely.
[52:01.120 -> 52:03.840] And you're talking about having freedom in that key moment.
[52:03.840 -> 52:04.680] As a performer.
[52:04.680 -> 52:05.440] Yeah.
[52:05.440 -> 52:09.240] Now, this fun thing was not about us drinking every night
[52:09.240 -> 52:12.600] and playing table tennis and all like having a laugh,
[52:12.600 -> 52:13.440] the greatest laugh.
[52:13.440 -> 52:15.240] No, no, no, it wasn't about that.
[52:15.240 -> 52:17.840] Fun was about on the golf course, when we're out there,
[52:17.840 -> 52:19.760] this is not life or death situation.
[52:19.760 -> 52:21.920] You know, the old Bill Shankly line, you know,
[52:21.920 -> 52:23.240] football's not a matter of life or death,
[52:23.240 -> 52:24.680] whether he said it or not, I don't know,
[52:24.680 -> 52:28.160] but that's the worst thing you can be as a performer. It's far more important than that.
[52:28.440 -> 52:33.540] That's the worst thing you can be as a performer, that you're actually relating death to what you do as a performer.
[52:33.540 -> 52:39.400] No, if you take it that serious, you're not going to play any good. My experience of being an elite performer,
[52:39.400 -> 52:42.440] my own self of playing in some big high-pressure situations,
[52:42.440 -> 52:45.480] it was never life or death. When it was too important to me,
[52:45.480 -> 52:46.820] that's when I performed my worst.
[52:46.820 -> 52:48.480] Yeah, we spend all of our time telling our kids
[52:48.480 -> 52:50.860] in important moments,
[52:50.860 -> 52:52.780] don't have too much fun, take it seriously.
[52:52.780 -> 52:53.880] I say it to my daughter all the time,
[52:53.880 -> 52:55.740] right today, take it seriously.
[52:55.740 -> 52:57.920] Maybe we need to reframe all our thinking
[52:57.920 -> 52:59.240] in those big moments for our kids.
[52:59.240 -> 53:01.000] Hey, enjoy it, have fun with it.
[53:01.000 -> 53:02.220] It's the fun of the challenge.
[53:02.220 -> 53:03.440] I mean, it's not to be dismissive.
[53:03.440 -> 53:05.000] It's important to get it right now. It's the fun of the challenge. I mean, it's not to be dismissive, you know. It's important to get it right now.
[53:05.000 -> 53:09.000] Now, it's still focused, it's still driven,
[53:09.000 -> 53:11.000] but you're not obsessed by the result.
[53:11.000 -> 53:12.500] You're so prepared.
[53:12.500 -> 53:14.500] How can you not be obsessed by the result, though,
[53:14.500 -> 53:16.000] if you can win the RADA Cup for Europe?
[53:16.000 -> 53:17.000] Because you're in the moment.
[53:17.000 -> 53:18.500] You're not thinking about where the ball's gonna finish.
[53:18.500 -> 53:20.000] You're thinking about where you are now,
[53:20.000 -> 53:21.500] what you're gonna do to execute.
[53:21.500 -> 53:23.000] That's the moment that I was in
[53:23.000 -> 53:24.500] at the moment when I hold that winning putt.
[53:24.500 -> 53:27.360] I mean, I keep going back to that because that was peak performance.
[53:27.360 -> 53:33.200] That, those couple of seconds that I was in when I hit that putt was absolute in
[53:33.200 -> 53:34.800] the zone, peak performance.
[53:34.800 -> 53:38.600] And I've gone back to that so many times wanting to recreate it so many times.
[53:38.600 -> 53:40.840] You keep trying to get there again during your career.
[53:40.840 -> 53:41.520] Yeah, of course.
[53:41.520 -> 53:42.120] Absolutely.
[53:42.120 -> 53:45.360] You know, and, and I think that's where that's
[53:45.360 -> 53:48.680] where I wanted a team to be. Moving on again to the captaincy and what I
[53:48.680 -> 53:52.280] learned, you know one of the things I hated as a player and ex-players are
[53:52.280 -> 53:56.040] great at this, is putting the fear factor in. Oh my god the first tee in a Ryder Cup
[53:56.040 -> 53:58.920] oh my god all you want to do is you can't even tee the ball up all you want
[53:58.920 -> 54:02.480] to do is make contact the first tee is so nerve-wracking you know there's 30,000
[54:02.480 -> 54:06.040] people around the tee and you don't want to screw it up. And, oh my God, you're thinking,
[54:06.040 -> 54:07.360] oh my God, I hope I don't shank it.
[54:07.360 -> 54:09.240] And you know, you're thinking all of these things.
[54:09.240 -> 54:11.640] No, that's not what I wanted anybody to be.
[54:11.640 -> 54:13.640] I created a big image where, with Justin was,
[54:13.640 -> 54:16.680] no, stand in that first tee, look down the fairway
[54:16.680 -> 54:19.240] and just think, there's 30,000 people around this tee
[54:19.240 -> 54:21.040] that are going to scream,
[54:21.040 -> 54:22.120] because we're playing at home,
[54:22.120 -> 54:23.120] when you hit it down the middle.
[54:23.120 -> 54:24.680] So feel empowered and give it,
[54:24.680 -> 54:26.140] hit your best shot you ever had
[54:26.140 -> 54:27.600] and just wait for the roar.
[54:27.600 -> 54:30.040] So what would you say to people listening to this
[54:30.040 -> 54:33.740] who struggle with self-doubt in big moments?
[54:33.740 -> 54:36.180] Self-doubt is because you're into the result
[54:36.180 -> 54:39.280] and not into the process of what you're doing.
[54:39.280 -> 54:41.080] You're too much result-oriented.
[54:41.080 -> 54:44.060] You've got to create fun in what you're doing.
[54:44.060 -> 54:47.120] To be a real high performer and lead performer, the best high
[54:47.120 -> 54:48.680] performers are energized.
[54:48.700 -> 54:51.080] Sometimes it's a situation that energizes them.
[54:51.240 -> 54:52.640] Sometimes it's the competitiveness.
[54:52.640 -> 54:56.520] I mean, Jack Nicklaus's line was, I never really loved golf, but I love the
[54:56.520 -> 55:00.220] competition, you know, so what's going to, what's going to float your boat.
[55:00.220 -> 55:01.240] What's going to tick your box.
[55:01.240 -> 55:03.240] What is it that makes you, cause everybody's different.
[55:03.480 -> 55:06.360] You got to find out what is it that makes you
[55:06.360 -> 55:07.680] going to perform at your best.
[55:07.680 -> 55:10.620] And when you found that, it could be the competition.
[55:10.620 -> 55:13.380] It could be the thrill of the ball coming off square
[55:13.380 -> 55:14.220] off a club face.
[55:14.220 -> 55:16.080] It could be a feel in your golf swing.
[55:16.080 -> 55:18.040] It could be immersed in the target.
[55:18.040 -> 55:19.240] It could be the ball flight.
[55:19.240 -> 55:20.800] It could be all kinds of things.
[55:20.800 -> 55:21.880] And find out what that is.
[55:21.880 -> 55:26.300] And you know, that's what makes you go.
[55:29.220 -> 55:30.920] I love all this message that you've spoken about, about you just trusted these guys
[55:30.920 -> 55:33.360] and you said you're successful, you've been successful,
[55:33.360 -> 55:35.720] and I'm not gonna get in the way of that.
[55:35.720 -> 55:39.200] How would you describe yourself then as a captain
[55:39.200 -> 55:43.580] and a leader based on the success that you had in 2014?
[55:43.580 -> 55:46.600] I think I gave structure, which players like.
[55:46.600 -> 55:48.520] Generally, golf is a very technical game,
[55:48.520 -> 55:49.600] it's a very structured game,
[55:49.600 -> 55:52.380] and generally the best players are very structured by nature.
[55:52.380 -> 55:55.740] They're very type A personality.
[55:55.740 -> 55:57.900] I'm not, it doesn't come easy to me,
[55:57.900 -> 55:59.340] so I had to make myself type A
[55:59.340 -> 56:03.520] and surround myself with vice captains who were type A.
[56:03.520 -> 56:05.920] And I gave them structure, I gave them clarity,
[56:05.920 -> 56:08.200] I gave them simplicity, and then as I say,
[56:08.200 -> 56:09.040] I got out of the way.
[56:09.040 -> 56:11.160] You know, probably a bit of inspiration as well too,
[56:11.160 -> 56:13.520] and a focus in their minds,
[56:13.520 -> 56:15.920] and created an environment that I would have liked
[56:15.920 -> 56:17.280] to have played in myself.
[56:17.280 -> 56:19.480] You know, created what worked for me in my career.
[56:19.480 -> 56:23.080] So I don't think I was revolutionary, to be honest.
[56:23.080 -> 56:25.540] I don't think I was revolutionary, to be honest. I don't think I was a pioneer.
[56:28.200 -> 56:31.760] I was taking things that had worked in the past
[56:31.760 -> 56:33.520] and making them better.
[56:33.520 -> 56:37.680] So if you were to take that skill set for you as a leader,
[56:38.800 -> 56:40.440] do you think you could take that and translate it
[56:40.440 -> 56:43.120] into another industry or another sport?
[56:43.120 -> 56:43.960] Absolutely, yeah.
[56:43.960 -> 56:45.580] I think there's huge translations.
[56:45.580 -> 56:47.440] That's the idea of writing my book was,
[56:47.440 -> 56:48.760] you know, London Business School were pushing me
[56:48.760 -> 56:50.760] to write this book because so many traits
[56:50.760 -> 56:53.420] and leadership that I had experienced
[56:53.420 -> 56:57.140] resonated with the academics in London Business School
[56:57.140 -> 56:58.840] who said, listen, you gotta do a book here,
[56:58.840 -> 57:00.420] you gotta, this is what we're hearing
[57:00.420 -> 57:02.080] from the business world, you know,
[57:02.080 -> 57:04.400] and let's jump over and bring that in.
[57:04.400 -> 57:06.280] I think there's huge lessons to be learned.
[57:06.280 -> 57:09.840] But when I give talk to businesses, Damien, it's really important, a little bit like what
[57:09.840 -> 57:11.440] Alex Ferguson did to me.
[57:11.440 -> 57:14.200] It's not for me to tell business leaders what they should do.
[57:14.200 -> 57:15.600] That's not my world.
[57:15.600 -> 57:16.760] This is their domain.
[57:16.760 -> 57:19.240] Reading balance sheets, that's not what I do.
[57:19.240 -> 57:24.560] So my idea when I do leadership talk is to leave lots hanging in the air and for them
[57:24.560 -> 57:25.540] to pluck
[57:25.540 -> 57:27.280] what resonates with them.
[57:27.280 -> 57:29.920] But what would you say stops most people
[57:29.920 -> 57:33.600] having that trust in both themselves and the people
[57:33.600 -> 57:36.440] that they're lucky enough to lead?
[57:36.440 -> 57:38.620] Maybe trying to follow a path
[57:38.620 -> 57:40.100] that doesn't resonate with them,
[57:40.100 -> 57:41.260] that because they've read it in a book
[57:41.260 -> 57:42.880] or they learned it in college.
[57:42.880 -> 57:47.160] You know, experiences in your gut instinct, always listen to those, what they have to say.
[57:47.360 -> 57:52.200] Most of my captaincy, as I say, was done not based on what Emmanuel would say
[57:52.200 -> 57:53.800] about what you should do as a leader.
[57:54.000 -> 57:59.560] It was based on me being that soldier, me having those feelings.
[57:59.760 -> 58:01.360] And if I didn't know the answers,
[58:01.560 -> 58:04.800] having really good mentoring from a select number of people,
[58:04.800 -> 58:06.200] and it was a very small number of people,
[58:06.200 -> 58:10.400] Alex Ferguson being one, to get an insight from them.
[58:10.400 -> 58:12.640] Before we move on to our quickfire questions,
[58:12.640 -> 58:14.480] the final one from me,
[58:15.440 -> 58:19.080] is success, based on everything we've discussed,
[58:19.080 -> 58:22.500] a matter of chance or a matter of choice?
[58:23.340 -> 58:24.800] It's gotta be choice.
[58:24.800 -> 58:25.580] It's gotta be choice. it's gotta be choice.
[58:25.580 -> 58:28.620] You've gotta put the blocks in place.
[58:28.620 -> 58:31.140] And you know, as good a job as I feel as I did
[58:31.140 -> 58:33.620] in a Ryder Cup captaincy, I could never have done it
[58:33.620 -> 58:35.540] without the talent I had at my disposal.
[58:35.540 -> 58:37.240] So you've gotta have the talent.
[58:37.240 -> 58:39.040] Whether it's an individual as a golfer,
[58:39.040 -> 58:40.560] you've gotta have some talent.
[58:40.560 -> 58:42.280] As much as you might have the best drive in the world,
[58:42.280 -> 58:43.620] and I've come across loads of people
[58:43.620 -> 58:45.000] in the professional game who have
[58:45.000 -> 58:51.200] Worked so hard who have just been absolutely obsessed about the game try to drive themselves, but they never made it
[58:52.120 -> 58:55.120] Because they didn't have the talent, you know, so there's got to be talent
[58:55.120 -> 58:59.840] You got to tell it with the drive as well. You've got to combine the two, but you've got to have the talent
[59:00.280 -> 59:02.040] You really you've got to have the talent
[59:02.040 -> 59:04.120] You've got to have that ability and that's what I felt
[59:04.180 -> 59:06.300] You know these players that I was captain,
[59:06.300 -> 59:07.540] and they were fabulous players.
[59:07.540 -> 59:10.540] It wasn't for me to contaminate, it was to empower them.
[59:10.540 -> 59:12.900] Not contaminate what they already do.
[59:12.900 -> 59:14.780] So can I ask you one last question, Paul,
[59:14.780 -> 59:16.420] before we go on to the quickfire?
[59:16.420 -> 59:18.980] How much of those skills that you've adopted
[59:18.980 -> 59:23.580] as the captain do you think are replicable as a parent?
[59:23.580 -> 59:24.740] Yeah, that's a challenge.
[59:24.740 -> 59:26.240] I got three kids myself.
[59:26.240 -> 59:28.780] I got one boy and two girls, and they're all great kids.
[59:28.780 -> 59:30.820] My boy's on a golf scholarship over in America,
[59:30.820 -> 59:34.120] and as much as I'd love him to be a professional golfer,
[59:34.120 -> 59:35.600] I don't want to force him down that road.
[59:35.600 -> 59:37.200] It's got to come from within.
[59:37.200 -> 59:39.900] He's a great kid, he's got loads of talent,
[59:39.900 -> 59:42.640] and you set out the work that has to be done.
[59:42.640 -> 59:44.280] You give examples of players that have done it,
[59:44.280 -> 59:46.160] and it's up to him then if he wants to do it.
[59:46.160 -> 59:47.680] And whatever pathway he goes up,
[59:47.680 -> 59:49.080] whether it be business, whether it be golf,
[59:49.080 -> 59:50.440] whether it be whatever it is,
[59:50.440 -> 59:51.800] you know, I'll support him in that way.
[59:51.800 -> 59:53.960] But ultimately it's gotta come from him.
[59:53.960 -> 59:56.960] Because what you see from dominant parents is
[59:56.960 -> 59:58.320] the flame goes out.
[59:58.320 -> 59:59.720] And if the flame doesn't light,
[59:59.720 -> 01:00:01.800] or if they give everything and it doesn't work,
[01:00:01.800 -> 01:00:02.960] they're lost as individuals.
[01:00:02.960 -> 01:00:04.360] One of the saddest things about golf
[01:00:04.360 -> 01:00:06.240] is that people drive themselves so hard
[01:00:06.240 -> 01:00:08.460] to be professional golfers and leave school early
[01:00:08.460 -> 01:00:10.020] and put everything into the one basket.
[01:00:10.020 -> 01:00:12.320] And sometime parents remortgage the house
[01:00:12.320 -> 01:00:14.380] to finance and all of those things.
[01:00:14.380 -> 01:00:16.980] And then the kids at 23, 24 don't make it,
[01:00:16.980 -> 01:00:18.140] they've run out of money.
[01:00:18.140 -> 01:00:20.080] And now they've got to go and find an alternative way
[01:00:20.080 -> 01:00:20.920] of making money.
[01:00:20.920 -> 01:00:22.320] And the parents don't have it
[01:00:22.320 -> 01:00:24.100] because they've remortgaged the house.
[01:00:24.100 -> 01:00:25.920] And the kids have to start at the bottom of the ladder
[01:00:25.920 -> 01:00:27.360] because they don't have any education
[01:00:27.360 -> 01:00:29.800] and they don't have a senior education.
[01:00:29.800 -> 01:00:32.320] And they have to take a job teaching or something
[01:00:32.320 -> 01:00:33.320] at the very bottom of the ladder
[01:00:33.320 -> 01:00:35.760] and learn how to be a teacher and all those things.
[01:00:35.760 -> 01:00:37.280] And it's really, really sad.
[01:00:37.280 -> 01:00:39.000] You know, my advice to my kids is that
[01:00:39.000 -> 01:00:42.240] I've given them such a broad platform
[01:00:42.240 -> 01:00:44.240] that whatever way they want to work,
[01:00:44.240 -> 01:00:47.160] they're going to have that platform behind them.
[01:00:47.160 -> 01:00:49.380] And if it's not into golf, that he's able to come back
[01:00:49.380 -> 01:00:51.660] and he's got a big education, you know,
[01:00:51.660 -> 01:00:53.060] he's at college in America, he's going to come out
[01:00:53.060 -> 01:00:54.860] with a degree in international business,
[01:00:54.860 -> 01:00:56.660] and he's going to have that platform anyway.
[01:00:56.660 -> 01:00:59.820] And in my experience, when I graduated from college
[01:00:59.820 -> 01:01:01.800] with a diploma in marketing and a degree
[01:01:01.800 -> 01:01:04.280] in international business, and a little bit of French
[01:01:04.280 -> 01:01:06.080] as well too, because I lived in Brussels for six months
[01:01:06.080 -> 01:01:07.240] when I worked there.
[01:01:07.240 -> 01:01:09.040] So when I went to the Tourschool,
[01:01:09.040 -> 01:01:13.200] I was like, unlike 99% of the guys who had no,
[01:01:13.200 -> 01:01:15.520] you know, they were really good superstars
[01:01:15.520 -> 01:01:17.780] in golf from the age of 15 or 16,
[01:01:17.780 -> 01:01:20.520] I wasn't, I had gone down the academic route.
[01:01:20.520 -> 01:01:22.560] So when I went to the Tourschool with them,
[01:01:22.560 -> 01:01:23.720] I was almost at the feeling,
[01:01:23.720 -> 01:01:26.780] well, it doesn't matter, this doesn't work out, I've got my degree to go back into
[01:01:26.780 -> 01:01:27.980] business to go back into.
[01:01:27.980 -> 01:01:29.480] And because I had that mindset,
[01:01:29.480 -> 01:01:31.100] it unburdened me to play well.
[01:01:31.100 -> 01:01:33.860] Goes back to the point about, you know, performing.
[01:01:33.860 -> 01:01:35.180] Right, quick fire questions.
[01:01:35.180 -> 01:01:38.680] Three non-negotiable behaviors that you
[01:01:38.680 -> 01:01:41.860] and the people around you must buy into.
[01:01:41.860 -> 01:01:43.280] I think honesty.
[01:01:43.280 -> 01:01:47.200] Honesty is right up there for me.
[01:01:49.800 -> 01:01:52.580] Whatever it may be in any facet of life,
[01:01:52.580 -> 01:01:53.760] if you're dealing with somebody,
[01:01:53.760 -> 01:01:56.600] you need to have complete honesty.
[01:01:57.920 -> 01:02:01.520] No matter what the problem is, it can be dealt with.
[01:02:01.520 -> 01:02:04.020] One of the advice I give my kids,
[01:02:04.020 -> 01:02:06.860] the boy in particular when he went to America,
[01:02:06.860 -> 01:02:08.320] I'm your first phone call.
[01:02:08.320 -> 01:02:10.980] Doesn't matter what it is, I'm your first phone call.
[01:02:10.980 -> 01:02:12.080] We can deal with it.
[01:02:12.080 -> 01:02:14.600] I don't know if I would go much further than that,
[01:02:14.600 -> 01:02:15.440] to be honest.
[01:02:15.440 -> 01:02:18.680] I think other things can fall in behind that.
[01:02:18.680 -> 01:02:20.860] Once everything is put on the table,
[01:02:20.860 -> 01:02:22.560] we can deal with everything else.
[01:02:22.560 -> 01:02:23.400] I like that.
[01:02:23.400 -> 01:02:24.740] You're about the 50th person we've interviewed
[01:02:24.740 -> 01:02:26.160] for these podcasts, and you're the first one
[01:02:26.160 -> 01:02:29.000] to give us one non-negotiable and no others.
[01:02:29.000 -> 01:02:30.840] Well, I think the rest would feed off that.
[01:02:30.840 -> 01:02:33.120] Once that's on the table, we can deal with
[01:02:33.120 -> 01:02:34.920] whatever the problem is from there.
[01:02:34.920 -> 01:02:38.240] And as a leader, certainly in me as a Ryder Cup captain,
[01:02:38.240 -> 01:02:40.280] you know, one of the jobs of the vice captains
[01:02:40.280 -> 01:02:47.000] was to mingle with the other players, get the gossip, you gotta be on the gossip.
[01:02:47.000 -> 01:02:49.160] The Americans call it the water cooler chat.
[01:02:49.160 -> 01:02:52.760] In Ireland we're great at it, we call it the pub chat.
[01:02:52.760 -> 01:02:55.220] It's important to get the gossip, what's going on,
[01:02:55.220 -> 01:02:57.140] what's the feedback from the players,
[01:02:57.140 -> 01:03:01.160] who's rowing with the wife, who's in financial trouble,
[01:03:01.160 -> 01:03:02.000] all of those things.
[01:03:02.000 -> 01:03:03.360] And it's not for me to judge that,
[01:03:03.360 -> 01:03:05.120] but I need to be aware of that if you want to manage it.
[01:03:05.120 -> 01:03:07.440] And I think as a manager, that's why getting to know
[01:03:07.440 -> 01:03:11.620] a person intimately as an individual is so important
[01:03:13.560 -> 01:03:16.500] if you want to manage them as part of the team.
[01:03:16.500 -> 01:03:18.280] What advice would you give a teenage Paul
[01:03:18.280 -> 01:03:19.960] just starting out?
[01:03:19.960 -> 01:03:22.280] Keep your doors open that we just mentioned.
[01:03:22.280 -> 01:03:23.920] Education, I think, is hugely important.
[01:03:23.920 -> 01:03:25.880] It's always going to stand to you.
[01:03:25.880 -> 01:03:29.420] There's no reason why you can't pursue an academic career
[01:03:29.420 -> 01:03:32.420] and a true college and a golf career.
[01:03:33.340 -> 01:03:36.160] And be passionate and be happy about what you're doing.
[01:03:36.160 -> 01:03:38.660] Don't do it because somebody wants you to do it.
[01:03:38.660 -> 01:03:40.180] Do it because you want to do it.
[01:03:40.180 -> 01:03:42.200] Whatever that may be, it doesn't matter what it may be.
[01:03:42.200 -> 01:03:44.440] How important is legacy to you?
[01:03:44.440 -> 01:03:46.640] It's important, but it's not massively important.
[01:03:46.640 -> 01:03:49.440] I think your behaviours will leave their own legacy.
[01:03:49.440 -> 01:03:51.280] I don't think you can chisel it out.
[01:03:51.280 -> 01:03:54.120] My own personal legacy, I'm captain of the Irish team,
[01:03:54.120 -> 01:03:55.320] the Olympics and golf.
[01:03:55.320 -> 01:03:57.440] I can see myself as I get older,
[01:03:57.440 -> 01:04:00.840] doing something for my country in that capacity,
[01:04:00.840 -> 01:04:03.040] whether it be Olympic related or golf related,
[01:04:03.040 -> 01:04:09.440] I don't know, something in that regard. You know, also for my kids, I want my kids to have a dad that they're
[01:04:09.440 -> 01:04:15.280] proud of, who never let them down, who was there and being steadfast and
[01:04:15.280 -> 01:04:19.400] you know, not got involved in something they shouldn't have done, like ended up
[01:04:19.400 -> 01:04:24.160] in jail or whatever the case may be, that you know, my behavior is consistent in
[01:04:24.160 -> 01:04:27.320] how I've treated, I like to think that I've treated them.
[01:04:27.320 -> 01:04:29.640] In terms of legacy, little story on legacy
[01:04:29.640 -> 01:04:32.300] in the right of cop, one of the things that,
[01:04:32.300 -> 01:04:34.080] when Alex Ferguson came and talked,
[01:04:34.080 -> 01:04:36.040] he talked about the Canadian geese,
[01:04:36.040 -> 01:04:37.960] and he gave the story about the Canadian geese,
[01:04:37.960 -> 01:04:39.880] as one of the things he talked about on a Tuesday night,
[01:04:39.880 -> 01:04:42.320] and how they fly in a V, and they cross the Atlantic
[01:04:42.320 -> 01:04:44.280] for thousands of miles, and that what they do
[01:04:44.280 -> 01:04:45.680] is they take turns, and who's the lead, who's the lead, and the guy gets, one gets V and they cross the Atlantic for thousands of miles. And that what they do is they take turns
[01:04:45.680 -> 01:04:47.320] and who's the lead, who's the lead,
[01:04:47.320 -> 01:04:49.160] and the guy gets, you know, one gets tired
[01:04:49.160 -> 01:04:50.240] and they fall back and he gives that
[01:04:50.240 -> 01:04:51.320] and then he talks to Peloton,
[01:04:51.320 -> 01:04:53.760] and like it again in cycling.
[01:04:53.760 -> 01:04:56.600] And I'm a spiritual guy in a lot of ways,
[01:04:56.600 -> 01:04:59.120] and we're getting our picture taken
[01:04:59.120 -> 01:05:00.840] having won the Ryder Cup,
[01:05:00.840 -> 01:05:03.440] and we're all gathered around a trophy,
[01:05:03.440 -> 01:05:06.480] and there's a wall of a couple hundred photographers
[01:05:06.480 -> 01:05:08.000] about to take the winning team's picture
[01:05:08.000 -> 01:05:09.400] with the Ryder Cup in the middle,
[01:05:09.400 -> 01:05:11.040] and all the team are all hunched around,
[01:05:11.040 -> 01:05:12.080] we're getting this picture taken,
[01:05:12.080 -> 01:05:14.160] we're all having a bit of fun, a bit of banter.
[01:05:14.160 -> 01:05:16.620] And then amazingly, right behind the photographers,
[01:05:16.620 -> 01:05:17.960] right behind the clubhouse,
[01:05:17.960 -> 01:05:21.160] this perfect V of Canadian geese flew over.
[01:05:21.160 -> 01:05:23.880] Now, I think it was Stephen Gallaher said,
[01:05:23.880 -> 01:05:25.280] oh my God, look, Canadian geese,
[01:05:25.280 -> 01:05:27.840] because this was kind of our mantra during the week,
[01:05:27.840 -> 01:05:30.240] the geese that Ferguson had mentioned on Tuesday,
[01:05:30.240 -> 01:05:32.800] and that we had referenced it a few times ourselves
[01:05:32.800 -> 01:05:34.160] during the week, and the players had a lot,
[01:05:34.160 -> 01:05:36.760] it became a little bit of a banter about the geese,
[01:05:36.760 -> 01:05:38.680] whose turn it was to be the lead.
[01:05:38.680 -> 01:05:40.840] And as he's pointing, he goes, oh my God,
[01:05:40.840 -> 01:05:42.400] and then everybody else points,
[01:05:42.400 -> 01:05:44.560] and of course, all the photographers take the picture
[01:05:44.560 -> 01:05:45.840] of us pointing at the geese.
[01:05:45.840 -> 01:05:47.580] Now, you can't see the geese in the picture,
[01:05:47.580 -> 01:05:50.260] but you can see us pointing and all laughing and smiling.
[01:05:50.260 -> 01:05:54.460] So, when it was all over, I took, I got that image,
[01:05:54.460 -> 01:05:59.320] and I created, again, a big image, and I got it framed,
[01:05:59.320 -> 01:06:02.740] and I got all the players' photographs on it.
[01:06:02.740 -> 01:06:04.640] I superimposed the geese on it,
[01:06:04.640 -> 01:06:06.760] that picture of all them pointing at the geese, superimposed the geese, put all the players' photographs on it. I superimposed the geese on it. That picture of all them pointing at the geese,
[01:06:06.760 -> 01:06:08.560] superimposed the geese, put all the players
[01:06:08.560 -> 01:06:11.880] and all the caddies' photographs and names on it,
[01:06:11.880 -> 01:06:14.800] and then sent it to the players as a kind of thank you
[01:06:14.800 -> 01:06:15.960] for the week, the kind of synopsis.
[01:06:15.960 -> 01:06:17.080] So a bit of a legacy.
[01:06:17.080 -> 01:06:19.240] So I think all of them, when they think of Gleneagles,
[01:06:19.240 -> 01:06:20.640] the geese will be something that they'll have
[01:06:20.640 -> 01:06:23.520] hopefully hanging in their bar, in their house,
[01:06:23.520 -> 01:06:26.200] or wherever it may be, as a kind of a legacy of what we did.
[01:06:26.200 -> 01:06:27.520] Last question then, Paul.
[01:06:27.520 -> 01:06:31.480] What's your one golden rule to live a high-performance life?
[01:06:31.480 -> 01:06:33.520] I think follow your dream and passion.
[01:06:33.520 -> 01:06:36.780] You know, I'm very lucky in life
[01:06:36.780 -> 01:06:40.680] that I've got a fire lit inside me from a young boy.
[01:06:40.680 -> 01:06:42.140] I didn't know what I was going to be.
[01:06:42.140 -> 01:06:43.880] I didn't know I was going to be a Gaelic footballer.
[01:06:43.880 -> 01:06:45.940] I didn't know I was going to be a businessman. And I certainly didn't know I was going to be. I didn't know I was going to be a Gaelic footballer. I didn't know I was going to be a businessman.
[01:06:45.940 -> 01:06:47.700] And I certainly didn't know I was going to be a golfer,
[01:06:47.700 -> 01:06:50.200] but I had a fire inside me.
[01:06:50.200 -> 01:06:51.740] And that's the greatest gift
[01:06:51.740 -> 01:06:53.660] that God has ever given me, that fire.
[01:06:53.660 -> 01:06:55.340] Not a talent to play golf,
[01:06:55.340 -> 01:07:00.340] just a drive and ambition inside me to be, I still have it.
[01:07:00.340 -> 01:07:01.900] And I hope that fire never goes out
[01:07:01.900 -> 01:07:03.380] because that's what gets me up every morning.
[01:07:03.380 -> 01:07:06.920] And I think we've all got potential.
[01:07:06.920 -> 01:07:09.120] It's a question of finding out what that is.
[01:07:09.120 -> 01:07:11.380] I didn't know, I had this fire inside me
[01:07:11.380 -> 01:07:12.620] but didn't know what direction in life
[01:07:12.620 -> 01:07:13.560] I was gonna go into.
[01:07:13.560 -> 01:07:16.580] And I was seeing kind of pertained open
[01:07:16.580 -> 01:07:19.340] and I broke my kneecap, I couldn't play football.
[01:07:19.340 -> 01:07:21.180] You know, I ended up stumbling into the world
[01:07:21.180 -> 01:07:23.640] of professional golf and kind of elevated from there.
[01:07:23.640 -> 01:07:26.120] And then into Ryder Cup and then into Ryder Cup captaincy,
[01:07:26.120 -> 01:07:28.500] and it's funny how life kind of throws you
[01:07:28.500 -> 01:07:29.340] in different directions,
[01:07:29.340 -> 01:07:32.160] but I feel very blessed that I've had that fire inside me.
[01:07:32.160 -> 01:07:34.760] So follow whatever's in your heart.
[01:07:34.760 -> 01:07:35.700] That's really important.
[01:07:35.700 -> 01:07:37.360] Everything else will take care of itself after that.
[01:07:37.360 -> 01:07:38.620] Listen, thank you so much.
[01:07:38.620 -> 01:07:39.760] That has been a fascinating chat.
[01:07:39.760 -> 01:07:42.300] I've written down here the sentence,
[01:07:42.300 -> 01:07:43.940] empower, not overpower.
[01:07:43.940 -> 01:07:45.920] I get a kind of real sense that that's the way
[01:07:45.920 -> 01:07:46.880] that you've managed people,
[01:07:46.880 -> 01:07:47.860] that's the way you've lived your life,
[01:07:47.860 -> 01:07:49.040] that's the way you parent your kids,
[01:07:49.040 -> 01:07:52.280] you empower people, you don't overpower them.
[01:07:52.280 -> 01:07:54.200] And I think your testament to the fact
[01:07:54.200 -> 01:07:56.940] that that can be a really successful way to run your life.
[01:07:56.940 -> 01:07:58.480] Thank you, Jake, yeah, thank you, enjoyed it.
[01:07:58.480 -> 01:08:00.520] And keep up the good work, Damien, thank you very much.
[01:08:00.520 -> 01:08:01.360] Thanks for having me on.
[01:08:01.360 -> 01:08:02.440] Cheers, Paul.
[01:08:10.040 -> 01:08:16.240] Damien. Jake. That is a man who has lived the most remarkable life at the absolute forefront of sporting endeavor and luckily for us he's learned a lot
[01:08:16.240 -> 01:08:19.520] along the way and is willing to share it and I love the fact that he decided to
[01:08:19.520 -> 01:08:22.800] share it that kind of sums him up I think. Yeah I think there's something
[01:08:22.800 -> 01:08:26.400] really powerful that I've seen over the years when I've met great sports coaches Mae hynny'n ymddangos i'w gilydd, rwy'n credu. Ie, rwy'n credu mai mae rhywbeth yn eithaf gallanol rydw i wedi gweld dros y blynyddoedd pan ddewisais gwych ymgyrchydd sportau
[01:08:26.400 -> 01:08:27.240] neu gwych lwyddiant,
[01:08:27.240 -> 01:08:28.840] yw eu bod yn ddarlithwyr gwych,
[01:08:28.840 -> 01:08:29.840] maen nhw'n gallu ddweud ein stori
[01:08:29.840 -> 01:08:32.400] ac mae'n unig pan ydych chi'n ymdrechu arno,
[01:08:32.400 -> 01:08:34.000] mae rhai gwirion gwirion
[01:08:34.000 -> 01:08:35.080] sy'n cael eu cynnwys yn eich gilydd
[01:08:35.080 -> 01:08:35.800] ac rwy'n credu,
[01:08:35.800 -> 01:08:38.160] yn ymdrechu ar yr hyn sy'n dweud Paul yno,
[01:08:38.160 -> 01:08:40.280] mae llawer o wyliod pwysig.
[01:08:40.280 -> 01:08:42.040] Ac gallwch fod yn lwyddiant gwych
[01:08:42.040 -> 01:08:43.840] heb ymdrechu
[01:08:43.840 -> 01:08:44.960] o'r ffront bob amser.
[01:08:44.960 -> 01:08:45.000] Y ffaith bod yn y captain o'r Ryddercau ond ddim yn mynd i, heb y byd yn ystod y brif,
[01:08:45.000 -> 01:08:49.000] y ffaith bod e'n captain y Ryder Cup, ond ddim yn mynd i mewn i'r chwaraewyr.
[01:08:49.000 -> 01:08:53.000] Fel dweudais i hi, mae e'n eu hymdrech, dydyn nhw ddim yn eu cymryd.
[01:08:53.000 -> 01:09:02.000] Mae'n ddifrif iawn, rhoi'r bobl y ffaith o'ch bod chi yma oherwydd eich bod chi'n dda.
[01:09:02.000 -> 01:09:25.400] Mae'n rhaid i mi ymdrechu hynny, ac yna ddod allan i'r ffordd a gwneud e ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n ymwneud ag y rhai a ydych chi'n No, no, no, that's not how you do it. From what he said, I have totally changed to, that's an interesting way of doing it.
[01:09:25.400 -> 01:09:26.440] Yeah, you could do it like that.
[01:09:26.440 -> 01:09:28.080] Have you thought of any other ways of doing it?
[01:09:28.080 -> 01:09:30.960] You know, making her feel like she's doing the right thing,
[01:09:30.960 -> 01:09:33.400] but guiding her to what you actually know
[01:09:33.400 -> 01:09:34.800] is the right answer.
[01:09:34.800 -> 01:09:37.440] Yeah, it's a technique that's often referred to
[01:09:37.440 -> 01:09:38.720] as guided discovery.
[01:09:38.720 -> 01:09:41.480] So you don't, so Jose Mourinho is somebody
[01:09:41.480 -> 01:09:43.600] that's supposed to be a great proponent of this,
[01:09:43.600 -> 01:09:46.600] that you pose a question to your players or your children, Felly Jose Mourinho, sy'n ddweud bod yn ddarlithydd, rydych chi'n gofyn cwestiwn i'ch chwaraewyr,
[01:09:46.600 -> 01:09:47.800] i'ch plant,
[01:09:47.800 -> 01:09:51.400] ac yna rydych chi'n gadael iddyn nhw gweithio'r ffordd i'r cyfrin,
[01:09:51.400 -> 01:09:53.200] ac eich swydd yw'n ymgyrchu nhw,
[01:09:53.200 -> 01:09:55.600] yn hytrach na'i gysylltu amdano.
[01:09:56.400 -> 01:09:58.600] Ac mae'n ddiddorol am yr hyn sy'n ei wneud,
[01:09:58.600 -> 01:09:59.600] ac mae'n ddweud bod yn ddweud,
[01:09:59.600 -> 01:10:02.600] ac dyna'r peth sydd wedi newid fy nghyfathrebu'n fwy,
[01:10:02.600 -> 01:10:04.200] ers i ni ddechrau'r podcast High Performance.
[01:10:04.200 -> 01:10:05.000] Rydw i'n ddweud, o'n i, pan ddechreuon ni'r fford sydd wedi newid fy nghyfraith y mwyaf oherwydd ein bod ni wedi dechrau'r podcast High Performance
[01:10:05.000 -> 01:10:11.000] Rwy'n meddwl, ar gyfer ein bod ni wedi dechrau'r ffordd hon, a chi a fi, fod yn bwysig i ni gofyn i bobl am eu hafodau
[01:10:11.000 -> 01:10:15.000] er mwyn i ni hefyd gael ein gallu i hafod ein hunain.
[01:10:15.000 -> 01:10:19.000] Ac mae'n dweud, y mwy rydyn ni'n ei wneud ym mhobl, y mwy rydw i'n sylwi, nid oes yn ymwneud â hafodau arall.
[01:10:19.000 -> 01:10:22.000] Mae hafodau yn ymwneud â'r byd-dyn o'r cymhwyster.
[01:10:22.000 -> 01:10:25.280] Ie, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n gweithgared pwysig i unrhyw un sy'n clywed hynny,
[01:10:25.280 -> 01:10:29.280] nad ydym yn cymryd cyfeirio bod unig un ffordd i'w wneud.
[01:10:29.280 -> 01:10:33.760] Rydyn ni'n ymwneud â'n fyrdd ei hun, o ddysgu bod llawer o ffyrdd
[01:10:33.760 -> 01:10:37.200] ac rwy'n credu bod y thema fawr sy'n cael ei ddod o bobl
[01:10:37.200 -> 01:10:40.960] yw bod, yn gwirioneddol, cofio i gael mwynhau'r fyrdd
[01:10:40.960 -> 01:10:44.320] yn ychydig mwy gwych na'n cyfathrebu ar y cyfnodau
[01:10:44.320 -> 01:10:47.220] a'r teimlad y byddwn ni'n rhaid i ni gael cyfrifiad i gael yno. Journey is as powerful as concentrating on the outcomes and feeling that we have to sacrifice to get there
[01:10:50.760 -> 01:10:55.500] Hey Damien, we had loads of lovely messages about the Rick Lewis podcast
[01:10:55.500 -> 01:10:59.160] And I love it when we get someone on who perhaps people wouldn't necessarily know
[01:10:59.160 -> 01:11:04.420] But then it really resonates with them. And if you listen to this episode and you haven't heard our conversation with Rick
[01:11:04.420 -> 01:11:07.480] He's a businessman. he's an entrepreneur but he
[01:11:07.480 -> 01:11:12.360] is also someone who changes lives through his black heart foundation and
[01:11:12.360 -> 01:11:17.480] he does it all from a real understanding of culture and people basically and
[01:11:17.480 -> 01:11:20.400] there was a lovely message we had from Steven Logan thanks for getting in touch
[01:11:20.400 -> 01:11:24.840] Steven and he said what a quote on today's social media that I saw it came
[01:11:24.840 -> 01:11:27.020] from the high-performance podcast via Rick Lewis
[01:11:27.020 -> 01:11:32.160] and it is too many people feel like they're losing rather than winning no
[01:11:32.160 -> 01:11:35.040] matter what you do there's someone out there doing it better and people often
[01:11:35.040 -> 01:11:39.480] retreat into just looking rather than doing so that's what Rick said on the
[01:11:39.480 -> 01:11:43.600] podcast again thanks Stephen for getting in touch and it's a kind of rather
[01:11:43.600 -> 01:11:45.000] salient point at the moment when we're having these conversations about winning Iawn, diolch i Stephen am ddod o'r ffordd. Ac mae'n ymdrech iawn i'r pwynt ar hyn o bryd
[01:11:45.000 -> 01:11:47.000] pan fyddwn ni'n cael y cyfrifau am gynhyrchu
[01:11:47.000 -> 01:11:49.000] yn ystod y Gymraeg, Damien,
[01:11:49.000 -> 01:11:51.000] a oes gwahanol o silfa neu bron yn bwysig?
[01:11:51.000 -> 01:11:52.000] Dyma'r cwmni sy'n gofyn.
[01:11:52.000 -> 01:11:54.000] Mae'n ymdrech iawn i'r heriau,
[01:11:54.000 -> 01:11:56.000] oherwydd rwy'n credu ei fod yn dod o'r ffordd
[01:11:56.000 -> 01:11:57.000] o ffeithio'n binari,
[01:11:57.000 -> 01:11:59.000] y penderfyniad yw eich bod yn gynhyrchu neu'n perthynu.
[01:11:59.000 -> 01:12:01.000] Un o'r pethau rydyn ni'n gweld yn arwain
[01:12:01.000 -> 01:12:02.000] ar y podcast hon yw
[01:12:02.000 -> 01:12:04.000] eich bod yn gynhyrchu neu'n dysgu.
[01:12:04.000 -> 01:12:10.320] Ac mae'n ymwneud â'r ffordd o'r lle rydyn ni'n dechrau, nid yn y bwyd rydych chi'n gwneud yn y blynyddoedd, fod yn y
[01:12:10.320 -> 01:12:15.440] moment rydych chi'n ymwneud â'r rhai fwyaf y gallwch, ac mae pawb yn dechrau o'r dechrau gwahanol, felly
[01:12:15.440 -> 01:12:20.640] a oedd unrhyw un yn edrych ar Laura Kenny a'i ddweud bod hi'n neger, oherwydd
[01:12:20.640 -> 01:12:25.600] oedd hi'n gynhyrchu y meddal ffyrddol yn y gêm hon, yn ymdrech i gael y meddal ffyrdd. Wel, wrth gwrs, nid yw.
[01:12:25.600 -> 01:12:29.920] Fe wnaeth e ddod o'r amser o'i gynhwys,
[01:12:29.920 -> 01:12:30.920] a'i gadael y matern,
[01:12:30.920 -> 01:12:33.520] ac nawr mae e'n cymharu yn ôl ar y nifer mwyaf.
[01:12:33.520 -> 01:12:34.880] Dyna'n stori anhygoel
[01:12:34.880 -> 01:12:36.040] y dylem ni ddod o'n cefnogi,
[01:12:36.040 -> 01:12:38.040] yn hytrach na'i ddifrifio'r ffaith
[01:12:38.040 -> 01:12:39.800] nad oedd e wedi cael y meddal ffyrdd,
[01:12:39.800 -> 01:12:42.760] ac felly, dydyn ni ddim yn cymryd ffyrdd.
[01:12:42.760 -> 01:12:45.280] Ond lle rwy'n eisiau cael y gydathrebu'n iawn ar y sgwrs hon,
[01:12:45.280 -> 01:12:49.280] yw bod chi a fi yn cael sgwrs brifol bob amser
[01:12:49.280 -> 01:12:50.560] gyda phobl fel Hector Beharin,
[01:12:50.560 -> 01:12:52.000] sy'n dweud, rhaid i chi fod yn candle.
[01:12:52.000 -> 01:12:54.560] Os ydych chi'n cyflog neu ddim,
[01:12:54.560 -> 01:12:56.480] os ydych chi'n candle ac ydych chi'n credu yn eich hun,
[01:12:56.480 -> 01:12:58.160] yna bydd gennych y fflame'n llawn,
[01:12:58.160 -> 01:12:59.920] neu John Wilkinson yn dweud bod
[01:12:59.920 -> 01:13:02.960] wasgu'n bwysig iawn fel gwynebu Cymru,
[01:13:02.960 -> 01:13:06.000] yn ogystal â'r trofeydd y gynhw cael. Ond sut y gallwn ni gael y sgwrs honno,
[01:13:06.000 -> 01:13:08.000] ynglyn â'n cyfrifol o'n podcast
[01:13:08.000 -> 01:13:10.000] o'r cyhoeddiad cyhoeddiol?
[01:13:10.000 -> 01:13:12.000] Oherwydd nid oes yna ddewis amdanyn nhw,
[01:13:12.000 -> 01:13:14.000] ac nid y gallwn ni ddod o'r hyn,
[01:13:14.000 -> 01:13:16.000] byddwn i'n hoffi i gael y meddal gwyl
[01:13:16.000 -> 01:13:18.000] na'r meddal ariannol,
[01:13:18.000 -> 01:13:20.000] neu'r meddal bron.
[01:13:20.000 -> 01:13:22.000] Ie, ond rhaid i ni gyd gynnal gwybodaeth
[01:13:22.000 -> 01:13:24.000] fod pawb yn dechrau o lefel gwahanol
[01:13:24.000 -> 01:13:28.080] yng nghyfraith. Dweud, er enghraifft, rydych chi'n rhoi i mi ar y rhan dechrau o'r 100m final,
[01:13:28.080 -> 01:13:29.840] nid yw cyfle i mi fynd i'w gynhyrchu,
[01:13:29.840 -> 01:13:34.760] ond gallaf i gyd i fynd drwy'r ffordd o hyfforddi a'i ddysgu i mi fyny
[01:13:34.760 -> 01:13:38.960] a'r cyfrifoldeb sy'n dod o hynny sy'n golygu y byddwn i'n
[01:13:38.960 -> 01:13:42.560] ymdrech yn well na'r moment pan ddechreuais.
[01:13:42.560 -> 01:13:44.000] A dwi'n credu bod hynny'n ymdrech,
[01:13:44.000 -> 01:13:46.160] rydyn ni i gyd yn dechrau o'n sefyllfa.
[01:13:46.160 -> 01:13:49.280] Ac rwy'n credu bod cyflwyniadau cyhoeddiol ar ein cyfrifoldeb,
[01:13:49.280 -> 01:13:52.000] mae'n i ni ddefnyddio beth mae cyflwyniad cyhoeddiol ar gyfer ni,
[01:13:52.000 -> 01:13:54.960] yn hytrach na'i alluogi cymdeithasau neu bobl eraill
[01:13:54.960 -> 01:13:57.040] i ddewis y cyfraithau ar gyfer ni.
[01:13:57.040 -> 01:13:58.240] Ac rwy'n credu hefyd fod yn bwysig
[01:13:58.240 -> 01:13:59.120] ein bod ni'n gwneud y pwynt yma,
[01:13:59.120 -> 01:14:00.000] y byddwn ni ddim yn dweud,
[01:14:00.000 -> 01:14:00.640] dydyn ni ddim yn ymuno yma,
[01:14:00.640 -> 01:14:01.920] yn dweud nad oes angen ymwneud ag ymwyn,
[01:14:01.920 -> 01:14:03.840] nad oes angen ymwneud ag ymgyrru
[01:14:03.840 -> 01:14:04.560] neu gwneud eich cymorth.
[01:14:04.560 -> 01:14:07.100] Felly dyma un ffordd arall o ddod yno. Felly os ydym yn ymuno yma a dweud, We're not sitting here saying it doesn't matter about winning. It doesn't matter about competing or doing your best. Like this is just another way of getting there.
[01:14:07.100 -> 01:14:09.200] So if we sit here and say right,
[01:14:09.200 -> 01:14:13.400] I have to win a gold medal at the Olympics in Tokyo,
[01:14:13.400 -> 01:14:16.100] then obviously your outcome focused, right?
[01:14:16.100 -> 01:14:20.000] If you say I'm going to do every single thing in my power to win
[01:14:20.000 -> 01:14:22.200] a gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics,
[01:14:22.200 -> 01:14:24.200] that is a very different challenge you set yourself.
[01:14:24.200 -> 01:14:28.240] And as long as by the end of it, you're standing on the podium with a silver or a bronze, by
[01:14:28.240 -> 01:14:32.480] the way, at that moment, you're one of the best three people on the planet at your chosen
[01:14:32.480 -> 01:14:37.200] event. If you can stand there knowing you gave your everything and you were absolutely
[01:14:37.200 -> 01:14:40.560] present in the process, then that's okay. Right?
[01:14:40.560 -> 01:14:42.080] Absolutely. That's it.
[01:14:42.080 -> 01:14:45.000] Even if you come fifth in the final, 10th, don't make the final. It's the process. Yn y pen draw, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud,
[01:14:45.000 -> 01:14:46.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:46.000 -> 01:14:47.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:47.000 -> 01:14:48.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:48.000 -> 01:14:49.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:49.000 -> 01:14:50.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:50.000 -> 01:14:51.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:51.000 -> 01:14:52.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:52.000 -> 01:14:53.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:53.000 -> 01:14:54.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:54.000 -> 01:14:55.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:55.000 -> 01:14:56.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:56.000 -> 01:14:57.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:57.000 -> 01:14:58.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:58.000 -> 01:14:59.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:14:59.000 -> 01:15:00.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:15:00.000 -> 01:15:01.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:15:01.000 -> 01:15:02.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:15:02.000 -> 01:15:03.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:15:03.000 -> 01:15:04.000] mae'n dweud,
[01:15:04.000 -> 01:15:07.000] mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud,chrau yn ddopio neu'n ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod in
[01:15:07.000 -> 01:15:09.000] yn dddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod in
[01:15:09.000 -> 01:15:11.000] yn ddod in
[01:15:11.000 -> 01:15:13.000] yn ddod in
[01:15:13.000 -> 01:15:15.000] in
[01:15:15.000 -> 01:15:17.000] in
[01:15:17.000 -> 01:15:19.000] in
[01:15:19.000 -> 01:15:21.000] in
[01:15:21.000 -> 01:15:23.000] in
[01:15:23.000 -> 01:15:27.880] in in in in oedd rhywun sydd wedi cael ychydig o ddiddorol, ond nid yw'n llwyrhau ei gynhyrchu ei hun. Ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r peth pwysig i bobl
[01:15:27.880 -> 01:15:29.040] i ffwrdd o'r hyn,
[01:15:29.040 -> 01:15:32.640] gwybod eich bod chi wedi sefydlu'r termau o lefelau cyffro,
[01:15:32.640 -> 01:15:35.520] eich hun, nid unrhyw un arall yn ei wneud ar gyfer chi.
[01:15:35.520 -> 01:15:36.360] Rwy'n hoffi.
[01:15:36.360 -> 01:15:38.360] Ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r cyfraith da i'w gael ar y moment.
[01:15:38.360 -> 01:15:39.680] Ac mae'n dod i'r ôl, does dim?
[01:15:39.680 -> 01:15:41.680] I'r ddifrifoliad sydd gennym ni'r podcast hon
[01:15:41.680 -> 01:15:43.840] yn amlwg o gyfraith,
[01:15:43.840 -> 01:15:44.920] mae'n ddiddorol o ddiddorol.
[01:15:44.920 -> 01:15:46.000] Yn unig. Dyna, diolch yn fawr iawn. Diolch, Jacob, rwy'n hoffi. Mae'n ddimrifol iawn o ddweud hynny, mae'n dweud hynny, mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:46.000 -> 01:15:48.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:48.000 -> 01:15:50.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:50.000 -> 01:15:52.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:52.000 -> 01:15:54.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:54.000 -> 01:15:56.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:56.000 -> 01:15:58.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:15:58.000 -> 01:16:00.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:16:00.000 -> 01:16:02.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:16:02.000 -> 01:16:04.000] mae'n dweud hynny,
[01:16:04.000 -> 01:16:06.060] mae'n dweud hynny, mae'n dweud hynny, Right now the link is in the description to this podcast or you can go to the high performance podcast calm there
[01:16:06.060 -> 01:16:07.960] You can sign up to the high performance circle
[01:16:07.960 -> 01:16:10.280] You can order the book as you know by now
[01:16:10.280 -> 01:16:14.440] You can also check out the interviews on YouTube as well and watch them as well as listen to them
[01:16:14.440 -> 01:16:19.460] But once again, please do keep your quotes and your messages and your comments coming into myself and Damien
[01:16:19.460 -> 01:16:21.860] Damien is at liquid thinker on Instagram
[01:16:21.860 -> 01:16:26.720] I'm at Jay Comfrey and you can find the podcast itself at high performance.
[01:16:26.720 -> 01:16:27.880] We love hearing from you.
[01:16:27.880 -> 01:16:29.280] We love knowing what you think,
[01:16:29.280 -> 01:16:31.240] and we love the fact that so many of you
[01:16:31.240 -> 01:16:32.640] are changing your mindset
[01:16:32.640 -> 01:16:34.720] and having a smile on your face,
[01:16:34.720 -> 01:16:36.140] thanks to this podcast.
[01:16:36.140 -> 01:16:38.840] Thanks as always to Hannah, to Will for their hard work,
[01:16:38.840 -> 01:16:40.380] to Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio,
[01:16:40.380 -> 01:16:43.840] but always, always, thanks very much to you
[01:16:43.840 -> 01:16:45.040] for being the most integral part
[01:16:45.040 -> 01:17:16.180] of the high-performance podcast have a great day Shopify helped businesses break sales records over the holidays with the world's best converting
[01:17:16.180 -> 01:17:17.180] checkout.
[01:17:17.180 -> 01:17:19.140] Let's hear that one more time.
[01:17:19.140 -> 01:17:22.020] The world's best converting checkout.
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[01:17:40.080 -> 01:17:44.560] Fred Meyer always gives you savings and rewards on top of our lower than low
[01:17:44.560 -> 01:17:49.280] prices. And when you download the Fred Meyer app you can enjoy over $500 in
[01:17:49.280 -> 01:17:53.280] savings every week with digital coupons. Plus you can earn fuel points to save up
[01:17:53.280 -> 01:17:57.880] to $1 per gallon at the pump. So it's easy to save big. Fred Meyer, fresh for
[01:17:57.880 -> 01:18:01.560] everyone. Savings may vary by state. Fuel restrictions apply. We've locked in low
[01:18:01.560 -> 01:18:08.000] prices to help you save big storewide. Look for the locked in low prices to help you save big storewide. Look for the Locked In Low Prices tags and enjoy extra savings throughout the store.
[01:18:08.000 -> 01:18:10.000] Fred Meyer. Fresh for Everyone.