E74 - Mel Marshall: The art and science of great coaching

Mel Marshall is the current Loughborough National Lead Coach where her swimmers include Olympic winning swimmer Adam Peaty.

Mel has overseen Adam Peaty's rise to the top of the international swimming stage, coaching him to gold medal success at every level - Olympic, World, European, Commonwealth and British.

In 2015 and 2016 Mel was awarded the title of British Swimming Coach of the Year. Before turning her hand to coaching, Mel had a successful career as a swimmer herself which included winning six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Australia and Bronze at the World Short Course Championships in 2008. 

Mel was awarded an MBE for her services to swimming and charity in the Queen’s Birthday Honours list 2021.

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# Episode Notes

* Mel Marshall is an elite swimming coach who has guided Adam Peaty to Olympic, World, European, Commonwealth, and British gold medals.
* She was named British Swimming Coach of the Year in 2015 and 2016.
* Before coaching, Marshall had a successful swimming career, winning six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Australia and bronze at the 2008 World Short Course Championships.
* Marshall was awarded an MBE for her services to swimming and charity in the Queen's Birthday Honours list 2021.

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# Podcast Transcript

**Jake Humphrey:** Hey, how you doing? Welcome along to another episode of the High Performance Podcast. So pleased you've chosen us to hang out with for the next hour or so. And today's guest is amazing. Absolutely, totally, and utterly amazing. If you've not heard this podcast before, it's where we have conversations with leading artists, entrepreneurs, sports people, business leaders from across the world about the things they've learned on their journey to high performance and the only reason we ask the questions, the only reason we have the conversation is so that you listening to this right now can learn from them and I tell you right now you will learn so much from today's guest the the elite swimming coach, Mel Marshall.

**Mel Marshall:** Competition is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive and I've had to learn how to be competitive and also be compassionate as life's gone on.

**Jake Humphrey:** A wise owl told me once as a coach, you've got two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen twice as much as you talk and then you might start to think you're being a decent coach.

**Mel Marshall:** Sustainable success is founded upon sustainable questioning and this sort of thirst and drive to just try and get better.

**Jake Humphrey:** And you know, there's winning once and there's winning twice and there's winning better each time. And you've always got to, and me and Adam talk about this regularly, but you've always got to start the next one with nothing.

**Mel Marshall:** If you try your 110% best at something, you never fail because you don't let yourself down. You'll win some, you'll lose some, but you'll never ever fail because you've given your very best.

**Jake Humphrey:** Listen, you don't get to coach the fastest swimmer in the world, probably the greatest swimmer this country's ever produced without really knowing your stuff, but this conversation, and I've said it a million times, it's not about sports, it's not about swimming, it's about people. Please, please give this episode as much time as you can, really think about it, really reflect on it. And I'd love you to get in touch with me once it's finished. Just go to at Jake Humphrey on Instagram, ping me a message and let me know what you think of the episode.

**Jake Humphrey:** Before we get going, I just wanted to mention the power of personal relationships. This episode came about because Damien is really good friends with Mel and he spoke to her at length and explained the podcast and she started listening and then she was keen to be a guest. And this week, you might know this already, but I invested last year in an eyewear brand called Coral Eyewear, which I believe in really strongly because it takes plastic out of the ocean and plastic out of landfill and turns it into eyewear. Nine million pairs of glasses are made using virgin plastic every single year, which is just totally unacceptable. And Coral Eyewear are trying to make a real difference. I was happy to join the journey with them. And this week I hooked them up with Castor, who are a sportswear brand. And if you follow me on Instagram, you know that I wear some of their stuff sometimes. And by the way, I'm not being paid to talk about this. I'm just telling you. And the reason it happened was personal relationships. And I think sometimes in the modern world, when we're all operating on Zoom, and we're all pinging WhatsApp messages to each other, and emails, and texts, I think the power of the personal relationship has been lost. And I remember when I first started in television, and I got an agent, I had this great guy called Anthony that looked after me for the first few years. And I used to love saying to anyone, oh yeah, yeah, speak to my agent. Because I thought it sounded cool, I thought it like, it kind of validated me as a proper TV presenter. And it's only when I started working on Formula One and I noticed how David Coulthard operated, that I said to him, you know, why, why A, don't you have an agent, and B, why do you do everything yourself? You're on the phone all the time, you're whipping off to meetings every five minutes, you know, you're hopping in the car in the evening at nine o'clock when we were all going out for dinner to go meet someone. And he just said to me, son, as he refers to me always, even though I'm only a few years younger, son, life is about the power of personal relationships. Don't hide behind anyone. Don't hide behind any tech. And that was a really good lesson for me, actually. And it's a lesson I've taken with me for the last decade or so since I since I worked with David on the on the Formula One coverage and I'm telling you now, once you have a personal relationship with someone, once you make the effort to say listen I know I've only met you over email or no you know we've only conversed briefly on text or whatever, let's just grab a coffee. And then you know how you always say to people, let's grab a coffee, then you never bother grabbing a coffee and it's like a sort of lazy sign off. Yeah, let's meet up sometime over the next few weeks and both of you know it'll never happen. Once you actually make the effort to go meet someone for that coffee, they can't believe you've made the effort because nobody makes the effort anymore. And it moves your relationship with them on leaps and bounds. So I just really wanted to start today by saying that I believe massively in the power of personal relationships, and I think you should too. I think you'd be impressed. Anyway, let's get on with this. It's a great episode. I think you're going to love what Mel has to say, and the brilliant Mel Marshall comes next.

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**Mel Marshall:** Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to my 70 minute counselling session, boys.

**Jake Humphrey:** Right, here we go. Now you're doing the counselling. What is high performance?

**Mel Marshall:** I've been listening to all your podcasts and I've given myself a chance to sort of answer this. And for me, like high performance is the outcome. And to me, how you get high performance is about the process. And to me, it's finding, it's evolving, it's delivering the best version of yourself, your culture, your environment, your people, every single day at a sustainable, long-term and short-term pace. And that to me is, like I say, what high performance is. High performance is the outcome and the process of how you get there is the interesting part of the journey.

**Jake Humphrey:** Obviously, we've now asked that question to about 50 plus people. I think you're the first person, Mel, who has mentioned evolving in your answer. Because I think one of the mistakes we make as human beings, we find high performance and that's it, we've found the formula. Whereas evolution is obviously something that's on your mind when you talk about high performance. So why is that?

**Mel Marshall:** I think you go to sleep an expert and you wake up a novice. And I just think that if you treat life like that, every day is a journey. And I just think if you look now, the world's your library, you know, I've been out running with you boys for probably 40 runs over the last 18 months. And every time I come back in from those runs, when I hear people like Joe Malone talking about the art of resilience, when I hear Richard, the army commander, talking about the power of moral courage, you feel yourself evolving every single day. And I think that it's about a growth mindset. It's about how do you make the best version of yourself every single day? And that's what my life's about as a person, as a performer, as a professional. And, and I love it. I literally, you know, I love it. I wake up in the morning and don't get me wrong. I still have the days where I just like, Oh, come on, is it over yet? But most of the time, the majority of my response is right. What's out there to explore? How can I get better? And how can I get better? And how can I win life today, I suppose?

**Jake Humphrey:** And what do you do when you're having one of those, ugh, days?

**Mel Marshall:** Well, I put a cold Copperberg in the fridge and I wait till 7.30 at home. That's high performance right there.

**Jake Humphrey:** So Mel, will you take us back to your origin story? Cause I do know a little bit about your background and I'm interested in when you first developed that growth mindset, because you weren't coming from an environment where high performance was necessarily all around you.

**Mel Marshall:** Yeah, I mean it comes from my mum and my dad really, and Jake I've heard you talk about, you know, your history and your adversity and does that, you know, certainly shape you for the future? And I absolutely think it does. You know, my mum, I won't go into too much detail, but she's had, you know, a few challenges around physicality over the years. And she sort of sat me down when I was about nine years of age and she looked at me across the kitchen table and she said to me, look, you've got two arms at work, you've got two legs at work, you've got energy and you've got enthusiasm. Go out and give the world, look, you've got two arms at work, you've got two legs at work. You've got energy and you've got enthusiasm. Go out and give the world the very best you've got and don't come home until you have. And that sort of, that was really born in my childhood. And then I have an over-competitive father who literally would not want to lose anything. And, you know, there was just no mercy. It was like, no, you can go and goal and I, the 35 year old strong man will strike the ball at a hundred mile an hour and you will learn to cope. And I, the professional table tennis player will not teach you how to serve. I will just serve at you. But that in itself was a life lesson. It was a competitive hurdle I had to get over. And it was the foundations of me, my competitive, you know, nature really. And interestingly, you know, I fought and fought and fought. And the day that I did beat him, he stopped racing. So yeah, so yeah, he retired. He was like, basically, no, we're not running racing anymore. We're not swimming racing anymore. But again, I thank both my parents for what they taught me and those real key lessons. And competition is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive and I've had to learn how to be competitive and also be compassionate as life's gone on. So, yeah, I think that's the foundations of where I've come from. And I had a best friend called Daniel and he had a condition called muscular dystrophy and it was a very, very severe disability. And he lived, he was given the prognosis to live to the age of 12. He lived in my village, and I went to school with him, and, you know, we did things, you know, did things that kids do, and I was surrounded, and it was probably the most inspirational story I've ever been witness to living was his mum and dad called Paula and Stuart. They never saw that he was supposed to make it till 12. They said, right, we accept this challenge and we're going to make the very best of this boy's life. And he passed away at 36 years of age. And, but he met Rihanna. He met every single Tottenham player. He went to every football game. You know, he came to me to, with me to watch my championships and they would hang out all the Star Wars, the Game of Thrones. I mean, you wouldn't believe it. It's almost like he's a member of Hollywood or something. But to me, people like Dan and Paula and Stuart, they're the real-life people in this world that are given a challenging hand but they make the decision to accept the situation and find the most positive resolution. And I would say that, you know, that is, that's kind of, that's me really, that's a little bit of part of my DNA.

**Jake Humphrey:** So when did you discover your talent for swimming then? Because like Jake said in the introduction, you were an incredible athlete in your own right. So tell us a little bit about that journey of discovery.

**Mel Marshall:** I started swimming when I was around seven years of age. Again, there was some kind of history around my parents and whether or not I had a physical condition that would maybe show later on in life. So it was basically like, right, swimming exercises all the muscles, so you're going to swim in. That journey started at four. The first fallout with my dad started at five because the independent female in me at five was convinced that she knew how to swim on her own and proceeded to drown in the small pool in Spalding. And then I just went three or four times a week and then I saw a swimming club and I started, they were in two lanes and I was in the public lane. And then I was like, right, I'll try and beat them. They kind of spotted me and then I went from there really. And then again, that sort of competitive animal in me was just like, right, I want to win the lane. I want to win my age group. I want to win the club. I want to win, be the best in the club. And I want to then be the best in the county and just never really gave up. Just like my boss now says I'm like a Jack Russell with a really good bone. I just never give up.

**Jake Humphrey:** But the obvious question, Mel, is why, why did you feel you had to win?

**Mel Marshall:** Because it's just who I am. It's I've just, that's what I do. I guess it's, I've just always wanted to be good. I've always wanted to be the best version of myself. I've always wanted to win. And again

**Navigating the Journey of High Performance: Insights from Mel Marshall, Olympic Swimming Coach**

Mel Marshall, the current Loughborough National Lead Coach, has guided Olympic gold medalist Adam Peaty to success at every level. Her remarkable achievements as a coach have earned her accolades, including British Swimming Coach of the Year in 2015 and 2016. Before transitioning to coaching, Mel had a distinguished swimming career, winning six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games and a bronze at the 2008 World Short Course Championships. Her contributions to swimming and charity were recognized with an MBE in the Queen's Birthday Honours list in 2021.

**Key Insights from Mel Marshall's Coaching Journey:**

1. **Balancing Medals and Personal Growth:**

- Mel believes that coaching success should not be solely measured by medals but also by the personal growth of the athletes.
- She aims to develop well-rounded individuals who are not defined by their achievements but are equipped with skills and values that will serve them beyond their athletic careers.

2. **Embracing Failure as a Learning Opportunity:**

- Mel emphasizes that failure is an inevitable part of the journey to success.
- She encourages athletes to embrace failures and setbacks as opportunities for growth and learning.
- By viewing failures as learning experiences, athletes can develop resilience, perseverance, and a growth mindset.

3. **Building a Strong Coach-Athlete Relationship:**

- Mel stresses the importance of establishing a strong and trusting relationship with athletes.
- She believes that open communication, empathy, and mutual respect are crucial for fostering a positive and supportive coaching environment.
- A strong coach-athlete relationship enables athletes to feel safe, supported, and motivated to reach their full potential.

4. **Leading with Authenticity and Integrity:**

- Mel advocates for authenticity and integrity as essential leadership qualities.
- She believes that leaders should be genuine, transparent, and true to their values.
- By leading with authenticity, leaders can inspire trust, respect, and commitment from their teams.

5. **Creating a Commitment Culture:**

- Mel emphasizes the power of creating a commitment culture within teams.
- She believes that when team members are genuinely invested in the team's goals and values, they are more likely to go above and beyond to achieve success.
- A commitment culture fosters a sense of unity, purpose, and accountability among team members.

6. **The Importance of Love and Passion:**

- Mel highlights the significance of love and passion in driving success.
- She believes that when athletes and coaches are genuinely passionate about their sport, they are more likely to find joy and fulfillment in their pursuits.
- Love and passion can inspire athletes to push their limits, overcome challenges, and achieve remarkable feats.

7. **Finding Inspiration in Human Stories:**

- Mel shares inspiring stories of athletes she has coached, demonstrating the transformative power of sport.
- She believes that these stories showcase the resilience, determination, and unwavering spirit of athletes who have overcome adversity to achieve success.
- Human stories can motivate and inspire others to pursue their dreams and strive for greatness.

8. **Addressing Gender Inequality in Coaching:**

- Mel acknowledges the underrepresentation of women in elite coaching roles.
- She believes that creating more opportunities for women to develop their coaching skills and gain experience is essential for addressing this imbalance.
- Mel encourages women to pursue coaching careers and break down barriers that hinder their progress.

9. **Embracing a Diverse Coaching Toolkit:**

- Mel emphasizes the importance of developing a diverse coaching toolkit that includes both masculine and feminine qualities.
- She believes that effective coaches should be able to adapt their coaching style to meet the needs of individual athletes and situations.
- A diverse coaching toolkit allows coaches to connect with athletes on a deeper level and provide tailored support.

10. **The Power of Reflection and Self-Awareness:**

- Mel stresses the importance of self-reflection and self-awareness for coaches.
- She believes that coaches should continually evaluate their own strengths, weaknesses, and biases to improve their coaching effectiveness.
- By engaging in self-reflection, coaches can identify areas for growth and development, ultimately becoming better leaders and mentors for their athletes.

# High Performance Podcast: Episode Summary

**Guest: Mel Marshall, Loughborough National Lead Coach**

**Topics:**

* The importance of feedback in developing athletes
* How to give effective feedback
* The difference between giving feedback on technical elements and psychological elements
* The importance of developing competitive instincts and the ability to deal with adversity
* The role of fun in a high-performance environment
* The importance of believing in oneself and one's abilities

**Key Insights:**

* Feedback is essential for athletes to improve their performance.
* The best feedback is specific, timely, and actionable.
* It is important to consider the individual athlete's needs and preferences when giving feedback.
* Technical feedback should focus on improving the athlete's performance, while psychological feedback should focus on helping the athlete to develop a positive mindset and overcome mental barriers.
* Competitive instincts and the ability to deal with adversity can be developed through a variety of methods, such as setting challenging goals, exposing athletes to difficult situations, and providing them with opportunities to learn from their mistakes.
* Fun is an important part of a high-performance environment. When athletes are enjoying themselves, they are more likely to be motivated and engaged.
* Believing in oneself and one's abilities is essential for achieving success. Athletes who have a strong belief in themselves are more likely to persevere in the face of challenges and achieve their goals.

**Actionable Tips:**

* Ask athletes how they would like to receive feedback.
* Be specific and timely when giving feedback.
* Focus on the athlete's strengths and areas for improvement.
* Create a positive and supportive environment where athletes feel comfortable making mistakes and learning from them.
* Encourage athletes to set challenging goals and to take risks.
* Make sure that athletes are having fun and enjoying themselves.
* Help athletes to develop a strong belief in themselves and their abilities.

**Memorable Quotes:**

* "You've got two ears and one mouth for a reason, listen twice as much as you talk and then you might start to think you're being a decent coach."
* "The best thing to do can still be to do nothing because your source of feedback is one potential source of growth."
* "Less is more like them. I do think now, unfortunately, you know, we're so want to helicopter them out of all the challenges. It's like, no, we have to let them learn and grow from each challenge and just be there to support them through those challenges, not remove the challenges."
* "I think that you can't do one without the other. I think that in terms of reaching your full potential, your full physical potential is down to your ability to believe in yourself, your ability to perform under pressure without perceiving stress, and your ability to bring the best version of yourself to the most difficult situation and deliver."
* "Life is what you give it."

# High Performance Podcast Episode Summary: Mel Marshall on the Power of Emotional Intelligence in Achieving Success

**Introduction:**

* Mel Marshall is an experienced swimming coach who has played a crucial role in the rise of Olympic gold medalist Adam Peaty.
* She was awarded the British Swimming Coach of the Year title in 2015 and 2016.
* Marshall is also an accomplished swimmer herself, having won six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games and a Bronze at the 2008 World Short Course Championships.
* In this episode, Marshall discusses the importance of emotional intelligence in achieving success, both in sports and in life.

**Key Points:**

* **The Importance of Emotional Intelligence:**
* Emotional intelligence is the ability to understand and manage one's own emotions as well as the emotions of others.
* It is a vital skill for anyone who wants to be successful in life, regardless of their field.
* Marshall emphasizes that emotional intelligence is not just about being nice or likable, but rather about being able to use your emotions to your advantage.
* **How Emotional Intelligence Can Help Athletes:**
* Emotional intelligence can help athletes to:
* Stay focused and motivated during training and competition.
* Deal with setbacks and disappointments.
* Build strong relationships with teammates and coaches.
* Perform under pressure.
* Marshall shares examples from her own coaching experience to illustrate how emotional intelligence can make a difference in an athlete's performance.
* **How to Develop Emotional Intelligence:**
* Emotional intelligence can be learned and developed over time.
* Some tips for developing emotional intelligence include:
* Paying attention to your own emotions and those of others.
* Practicing self-awareness and self-regulation.
* Building strong relationships with supportive people.
* Seeking out opportunities to learn and grow.
* **The Power of Empathy:**
* Empathy is a key component of emotional intelligence.
* It is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person.
* Empathy is essential for building strong relationships and creating a positive team culture.
* Marshall stresses that empathy is not just about feeling sorry for someone, but rather about understanding their perspective and trying to help them.

**Conclusion:**

* Mel Marshall's insights on the importance of emotional intelligence in achieving success are valuable for anyone who wants to excel in their chosen field.
* By developing their emotional intelligence, individuals can improve their performance, build stronger relationships, and live more fulfilling lives.

**Additional Quotes and Insights:**

* "Emotional intelligence is not just about being nice or likable, it's about being able to use your emotions to your advantage." - Mel Marshall
* "When you're emotionally intelligent, you can stay focused and motivated during training and competition, deal with setbacks and disappointments, build strong relationships with teammates and coaches, and perform under pressure." - Mel Marshall
* "Emotional intelligence can be learned and developed over time. It's not something that you're born with, but it's something that you can work on and improve." - Mel Marshall
* "Empathy is a key component of emotional intelligence. It's the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person." - Mel Marshall
* "Empathy is not just about feeling sorry for someone, it's about understanding their perspective and trying to help them." - Mel Marshall

[00:00.000 -> 00:02.800] Hey, how you doing?
[00:02.800 -> 00:05.760] Welcome along to another episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[00:05.760 -> 00:08.960] So pleased you've chosen us to hang out with for the next hour or so.
[00:08.960 -> 00:11.960] And today's guest is amazing.
[00:11.960 -> 00:15.200] Absolutely, totally and utterly amazing.
[00:15.200 -> 00:20.480] If you've not heard this podcast before, it's where we have conversations with leading artists,
[00:20.480 -> 00:25.800] entrepreneurs, sports people, business leaders from across the world about the
[00:25.800 -> 00:28.760] things they've learned on their journey to high performance and the only reason
[00:28.760 -> 00:32.640] we ask the questions, the only reason we have the conversation is so that you
[00:32.640 -> 00:38.160] listening to this right now can learn from them and I tell you right now you
[00:38.160 -> 00:47.480] will learn so much from today's guest the the elite swimming coach, Mel Marshall.
[00:49.360 -> 00:51.320] Competition is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive
[00:51.320 -> 00:53.680] and I've had to learn how to be competitive
[00:53.680 -> 00:56.120] and also be compassionate as life's gone on.
[00:57.160 -> 00:58.840] A wise owl told me once as a coach,
[00:58.840 -> 01:01.760] you've got two ears and one mouth for a reason.
[01:01.760 -> 01:03.240] Listen twice as much as you talk
[01:03.240 -> 01:05.480] and then you might start to think you're being a decent coach.
[01:05.480 -> 01:15.640] Sustainable success is founded upon sustainable questioning and this sort of thirst and drive to just try and get better.
[01:15.640 -> 01:21.560] And you know, there's winning once and there's winning twice and there's winning better each time.
[01:21.560 -> 01:25.380] And you've always got to, and me and Adam talk about this regularly,
[01:25.380 -> 01:28.760] but you've always got to start the next one with nothing.
[01:28.760 -> 01:33.760] If you try your 110% best at something,
[01:34.080 -> 01:37.000] you never fail because you don't let yourself down.
[01:37.000 -> 01:40.240] You'll win some, you'll lose some,
[01:40.240 -> 01:41.700] but you'll never ever fail
[01:41.700 -> 01:44.360] because you've given your very best.
[01:44.360 -> 01:46.900] Listen, you don't get to coach the fastest swimmer in the world,
[01:46.900 -> 01:49.400] probably the greatest swimmer this country's ever produced
[01:49.400 -> 01:50.700] without really knowing your stuff,
[01:50.700 -> 01:53.000] but this conversation, and I've said it a million times,
[01:53.000 -> 01:54.300] it's not about sports,
[01:54.400 -> 01:55.600] it's not about swimming,
[01:55.800 -> 01:56.900] it's about people.
[01:57.100 -> 02:00.300] Please, please give this episode as much time as you can,
[02:00.300 -> 02:01.300] really think about it,
[02:01.300 -> 02:02.400] really reflect on it.
[02:02.600 -> 02:05.140] And I'd love you to get in touch with me once it's finished.
[02:05.140 -> 02:10.260] Just go to at Jake Humphrey on Instagram, ping me a message and let me know what
[02:10.260 -> 02:11.340] you think of the episode.
[02:11.340 -> 02:16.740] Before we get going, I just wanted to mention the power of personal relationships.
[02:16.740 -> 02:20.700] This episode came about because Damien is really good friends with Mel and he spoke
[02:20.700 -> 02:23.780] to her at length and explained the podcast and she started listening and then she was
[02:23.780 -> 02:30.320] keen to be a guest. And this week, you might know this already, but I invested last year in an eyewear brand
[02:30.320 -> 02:34.000] called Coral Eyewear, which I believe in really strongly because it takes plastic out of the
[02:34.000 -> 02:38.840] ocean and plastic out of landfill and turns it into eyewear.
[02:38.840 -> 02:42.700] Nine million pairs of glasses are made using virgin plastic every single year, which is
[02:42.700 -> 02:44.680] just totally unacceptable.
[02:44.680 -> 02:47.500] And Coral Eyewear are trying to make a real difference.
[02:47.500 -> 02:49.000] I was happy to join the journey with them.
[02:49.000 -> 02:51.200] And this week I hooked them up with Castor,
[02:51.200 -> 02:52.400] who are a sportswear brand.
[02:52.400 -> 02:53.600] And if you follow me on Instagram,
[02:53.600 -> 02:56.000] you know that I wear some of their stuff sometimes.
[02:56.000 -> 02:58.000] And by the way, I'm not being paid to talk about this.
[02:58.000 -> 02:59.000] I'm just telling you.
[02:59.000 -> 03:02.800] And the reason it happened was personal relationships.
[03:02.800 -> 03:05.320] And I think sometimes in the modern world,
[03:05.320 -> 03:06.800] when we're all operating on Zoom,
[03:06.800 -> 03:08.920] and we're all pinging WhatsApp messages to each other,
[03:08.920 -> 03:11.240] and emails, and texts,
[03:11.240 -> 03:13.320] I think the power of the personal relationship
[03:13.320 -> 03:14.160] has been lost.
[03:14.160 -> 03:16.360] And I remember when I first started in television,
[03:16.360 -> 03:17.360] and I got an agent,
[03:17.360 -> 03:19.040] I had this great guy called Anthony
[03:19.040 -> 03:20.640] that looked after me for the first few years.
[03:20.640 -> 03:22.400] And I used to love saying to anyone,
[03:22.400 -> 03:24.240] oh yeah, yeah, speak to my agent.
[03:24.240 -> 03:25.520] Because I thought it sounded cool,
[03:25.520 -> 03:27.560] I thought it like, it kind of validated me
[03:27.560 -> 03:29.080] as a proper TV presenter.
[03:29.920 -> 03:33.020] And it's only when I started working on Formula One
[03:33.020 -> 03:36.000] and I noticed how David Coulthard operated,
[03:36.000 -> 03:37.800] that I said to him, you know, why,
[03:37.800 -> 03:39.260] why A, don't you have an agent,
[03:39.260 -> 03:40.880] and B, why do you do everything yourself?
[03:40.880 -> 03:41.960] You're on the phone all the time,
[03:41.960 -> 03:44.920] you're whipping off to meetings every five minutes,
[03:44.920 -> 03:45.000] you know, you're hopping in the car in the time. You're whipping off to meetings every five minutes.
[03:45.000 -> 03:47.680] You know, you're hopping in the car in the evening at nine o'clock when we were all going
[03:47.680 -> 03:50.000] out for dinner to go meet someone.
[03:50.000 -> 03:55.400] And he just said to me, son, as he refers to me always, even though I'm only a few years
[03:55.400 -> 04:00.000] younger, son, life is about the power of personal relationships.
[04:00.000 -> 04:01.480] Don't hide behind anyone.
[04:01.480 -> 04:03.160] Don't hide behind any tech.
[04:03.160 -> 04:04.720] And that was a really good lesson for me, actually.
[04:04.720 -> 04:08.260] And it's a lesson I've taken with me for the last decade or so
[04:08.260 -> 04:11.560] since I since I worked with David on the on the Formula One coverage and I'm
[04:11.560 -> 04:15.840] telling you now, once you have a personal relationship with someone, once you make
[04:15.840 -> 04:19.400] the effort to say listen I know I've only met you over email or no you know
[04:19.400 -> 04:23.720] we've only conversed briefly on text or whatever, let's just grab a coffee. And
[04:23.720 -> 04:25.600] then you know how you always say to people,
[04:25.600 -> 04:28.040] let's grab a coffee, then you never bother grabbing a coffee
[04:28.040 -> 04:30.920] and it's like a sort of lazy sign off.
[04:30.920 -> 04:32.920] Yeah, let's meet up sometime over the next few weeks
[04:32.920 -> 04:35.360] and both of you know it'll never happen.
[04:35.360 -> 04:36.620] Once you actually make the effort
[04:36.620 -> 04:39.160] to go meet someone for that coffee,
[04:39.160 -> 04:40.600] they can't believe you've made the effort
[04:40.600 -> 04:42.600] because nobody makes the effort anymore.
[04:42.600 -> 04:45.720] And it moves your relationship with them on leaps and bounds.
[04:45.720 -> 04:51.200] So I just really wanted to start today by saying that I believe massively in the power
[04:51.200 -> 04:55.080] of personal relationships, and I think you should too.
[04:55.080 -> 04:56.320] I think you'd be impressed.
[04:56.320 -> 04:57.880] Anyway, let's get on with this.
[04:57.880 -> 04:58.920] It's a great episode.
[04:58.920 -> 05:28.000] I think you're going to love what Mel has to say, and the brilliant Mel Marshall comes next. dollar per gallon at the pump so it's easy to save big. Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone. Savings may vary by state, fuel restrictions apply. We've locked in low
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[07:15.640 -> 07:21.120] Hey listen, I'm sure that you don't need me to tell you by now that Lotus are the founding
[07:21.120 -> 07:24.040] partner of the High Performance Podcast, but this week I just want to talk to you about
[07:24.040 -> 07:25.280] something a little bit different.
[07:25.280 -> 07:27.260] Just give me one minute before the podcast starts.
[07:27.260 -> 07:28.400] Please, please, please.
[07:28.400 -> 07:31.600] Because something that I probably don't talk about enough,
[07:31.600 -> 07:35.120] actually, on my social media is that I'm a trustee
[07:35.120 -> 07:37.200] for the Community Sport Foundation.
[07:37.200 -> 07:40.320] And being a trustee of a charity is a bit like
[07:40.320 -> 07:42.360] being on the board of directors of a business.
[07:42.360 -> 07:43.500] So you're basically in charge
[07:43.500 -> 07:48.760] of the direction of that charity. we are a small independent charity but we
[07:48.760 -> 07:53.600] get to use the Norwich City badge which really helps us and the Norwich City
[07:53.600 -> 07:58.800] Community Sport Foundation reach tens of thousands of lives every year. We reach
[07:58.800 -> 08:04.440] people from 2 to 92 and we do it through the power of sport, through the power of
[08:04.440 -> 08:06.320] communication which as I just mentioned is pretty important and I can't thank to 92 and we do it through the power of sport, through the power of communication, which
[08:06.320 -> 08:08.760] as I just mentioned is pretty important.
[08:08.760 -> 08:14.400] And I can't thank Lotus enough because they have decided to give us a car and not just
[08:14.400 -> 08:15.580] any old car.
[08:15.580 -> 08:23.920] They have given us the very first Lotus Elise 240 Sport Final Edition off the production
[08:23.920 -> 08:24.920] line.
[08:24.920 -> 08:27.720] So after 25 years, the Lotus Elise is saying goodbye.
[08:27.720 -> 08:30.120] And the very first Final Edition Elise
[08:30.120 -> 08:32.480] off the production line has been given
[08:32.480 -> 08:34.480] to the Community Sport Foundation.
[08:34.480 -> 08:37.360] And even better news, we want to give it to you.
[08:37.360 -> 08:39.520] We're running a competition in conjunction
[08:39.520 -> 08:43.180] with Bridge Classic Cars, and it's nine pounds to enter.
[08:43.180 -> 08:48.960] And if you enter, then you stand the chance of winning the car so that Lotus could be yours for just nine
[08:48.960 -> 08:53.960] pounds and every single penny of the profits goes to the brilliant community
[08:53.960 -> 08:57.640] support foundation if you want to enter if you're happy to spend nine pounds to
[08:57.640 -> 09:01.240] support a charity and take the chance on winning your very own Lotus Elise
[09:01.240 -> 09:06.780] please just go to bridge classic cars competitionsarscompetitions.co.uk or
[09:06.780 -> 09:11.380] just type in Bridge Classic Cars onto any search engine and you'll find it. Go to the
[09:11.380 -> 09:16.660] competitions page, have a look at the Lotus Elise, enter for £9 and the car could be
[09:16.660 -> 09:21.660] yours and thanks to Bridge for their help on this. But most of all, a million times
[09:21.660 -> 09:29.660] over, thank you, thank you, thank you to Lotus Cars for supporting us at the Community Sport Foundation massively appreciate it Lotus
[09:29.660 -> 09:39.800] thank you so much. With us today a guest who in 2004 was ranked the best in the
[09:39.800 -> 09:43.520] world at what she did. Two years later she won six medals at the Melbourne
[09:43.520 -> 09:49.280] Commonwealth Games, two years after that she quit. However the success for her was actually
[09:49.280 -> 09:53.440] only just beginning because she became a coach, most famously working with Adam
[09:53.440 -> 09:57.520] Peaty as she does to this day and it was at that point that she embraced the
[09:57.520 -> 10:01.780] power of empowering others. She has helped to send records tumbling, medals
[10:01.780 -> 10:05.080] piling through being inspiring. So it's a real pleasure to
[10:05.080 -> 10:10.400] welcome to the High Performance podcast, swimming coach and former athlete Mel Marshall. Mel,
[10:10.400 -> 10:11.400] nice to have you with us.
[10:11.400 -> 10:15.960] Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to my 70 minute counselling session, boys.
[10:15.960 -> 10:21.960] Right, here we go. Now you're doing the counselling. What is high performance?
[10:21.960 -> 10:26.280] I've been listening to all your podcasts and I've given myself a chance to sort of answer
[10:26.280 -> 10:35.880] this. And for me, like high performance is the outcome. And to me, how you get high performance
[10:35.880 -> 10:47.000] is about the process. And to me, it's finding, it's evolving, it's delivering the best version of yourself, your culture, your environment, your people,
[10:47.000 -> 10:53.000] every single day at a sustainable, long-term and short-term pace.
[10:53.000 -> 10:58.000] And that to me is, like I say, what high performance is.
[10:58.000 -> 11:02.000] High performance is the outcome and the process of how you get there
[11:02.000 -> 11:04.000] is the interesting part of the journey.
[11:04.000 -> 11:09.000] Obviously, we've now asked that question to about 50 plus people.
[11:09.000 -> 11:13.500] I think you're the first person, Mel, who has mentioned evolving in your answer.
[11:13.500 -> 11:16.000] Because I think one of the mistakes we make as human beings,
[11:16.000 -> 11:18.500] we find high performance and that's it, we've found the formula.
[11:18.500 -> 11:22.000] Whereas evolution is obviously something that's on your mind
[11:22.000 -> 11:23.500] when you talk about high performance.
[11:23.500 -> 11:24.500] So why is that?
[11:24.500 -> 11:28.960] I think you go to sleep an expert and you wake up a novice.
[11:28.960 -> 11:32.240] And I just think that if you treat life like that,
[11:32.240 -> 11:34.000] every day is a journey.
[11:34.000 -> 11:36.520] And I just think if you look now, the world's your library,
[11:36.520 -> 11:38.720] you know, I've been out running with you boys
[11:38.720 -> 11:41.760] for probably 40 runs over the last 18 months.
[11:41.760 -> 11:44.320] And every time I come back in from those runs,
[11:44.320 -> 11:46.640] when I hear people like Joe Malone
[11:46.640 -> 11:48.560] talking about the art of resilience,
[11:48.560 -> 11:52.680] when I hear Richard, the army commander,
[11:52.680 -> 11:55.480] talking about the power of moral courage,
[11:55.480 -> 11:58.600] you feel yourself evolving every single day.
[11:58.600 -> 12:01.320] And I think that it's about a growth mindset.
[12:01.320 -> 12:03.640] It's about how do you make the best version of yourself
[12:03.640 -> 12:09.840] every single day? And that's what my life's about as a person, as a performer,
[12:09.840 -> 12:14.800] as a professional. And, and I love it. I literally, you know, I love it. I wake up in the morning and
[12:14.800 -> 12:19.360] don't get me wrong. I still have the days where I just like, Oh, come on, is it over yet? But
[12:19.920 -> 12:24.560] most of the time, the majority of my response is right. What's out there to explore? How can I get
[12:24.560 -> 12:25.280] better? And how can I get better?
[12:25.280 -> 12:28.160] And how can I win life today, I suppose?
[12:28.160 -> 12:29.560] And what do you do when you're having one of those,
[12:29.560 -> 12:31.200] ugh, days?
[12:31.200 -> 12:33.440] Well, I put a cold Copperberg in the fridge
[12:33.440 -> 12:35.640] and I wait till 7.30 at home.
[12:35.640 -> 12:38.200] That's high performance right there.
[12:38.200 -> 12:41.240] So Mel, will you take us back to your origin story?
[12:41.240 -> 12:43.440] Cause I do know a little bit about your background
[12:43.440 -> 12:45.040] and I'm interested in
[12:51.040 -> 12:57.280] when you first developed that growth mindset, because you weren't coming from an environment where high performance was necessarily all around you. Yeah, I mean it comes from my mum and my dad
[12:57.280 -> 13:02.640] really, and Jake I've heard you talk about, you know, your history and your adversity and does
[13:02.640 -> 13:05.280] that, you know, certainly shape you for the future?
[13:05.280 -> 13:07.760] And I absolutely think it does.
[13:07.760 -> 13:09.720] You know, my mum, I won't go into too much detail,
[13:09.720 -> 13:10.960] but she's had, you know,
[13:10.960 -> 13:14.000] a few challenges around physicality over the years.
[13:14.000 -> 13:17.080] And she sort of sat me down when I was about
[13:17.080 -> 13:18.620] nine years of age and she looked at me
[13:18.620 -> 13:20.560] across the kitchen table and she said to me,
[13:20.560 -> 13:22.960] look, you've got two arms at work,
[13:22.960 -> 13:24.400] you've got two legs at work,
[13:24.400 -> 13:26.960] you've got energy and you've got enthusiasm. Go out and give the world, look, you've got two arms at work. You've got two legs at work. You've got energy and you've got enthusiasm.
[13:26.960 -> 13:28.960] Go out and give the world the very best you've got
[13:28.960 -> 13:30.720] and don't come home until you have.
[13:30.720 -> 13:34.240] And that sort of, that was really born in my childhood.
[13:34.240 -> 13:37.240] And then I have an over-competitive father
[13:37.240 -> 13:40.400] who literally would not want to lose anything.
[13:40.400 -> 13:43.080] And, you know, there was just no mercy.
[13:43.080 -> 13:44.520] It was like, no, you can go and goal
[13:44.520 -> 13:46.420] and I, the 35 year old strong man
[13:46.420 -> 13:48.620] will strike the ball at a hundred mile an hour
[13:48.620 -> 13:50.060] and you will learn to cope.
[13:50.060 -> 13:52.500] And I, the professional table tennis player
[13:52.500 -> 13:53.940] will not teach you how to serve.
[13:53.940 -> 13:55.500] I will just serve at you.
[13:55.500 -> 13:57.620] But that in itself was a life lesson.
[13:57.620 -> 14:00.300] It was a competitive hurdle I had to get over.
[14:00.300 -> 14:02.380] And it was the foundations of me,
[14:02.380 -> 14:04.980] my competitive, you know, nature really.
[14:04.980 -> 14:05.000] And interestingly, you know, I fought and fought and fought. And it was the foundations of me, my competitive nature, really.
[14:05.000 -> 14:08.000] And interestingly, I fought and fought and fought.
[14:08.000 -> 14:11.000] And the day that I did beat him, he stopped racing.
[14:11.000 -> 14:14.000] So yeah, so yeah, he retired.
[14:14.000 -> 14:17.000] He was like, basically, no, we're not running racing anymore.
[14:17.000 -> 14:19.000] We're not swimming racing anymore.
[14:19.000 -> 14:22.000] But again, I thank both my parents for what they taught me
[14:22.000 -> 14:24.000] and those real key lessons.
[14:24.000 -> 14:26.000] And competition is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive. parents for what they taught me and those real key lessons. And, you know, competition
[14:26.000 -> 14:30.120] is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive and I've had to learn how
[14:30.120 -> 14:35.080] to be competitive and also be compassionate as life's gone on. So, yeah, I think that's
[14:35.080 -> 14:39.520] the foundations of where I've come from. And I had a best friend called Daniel and he had
[14:39.520 -> 14:45.600] a condition called muscular dystrophy and it was a very, very severe disability.
[14:45.600 -> 14:49.280] And he lived, he was given the prognosis to live to the age of 12.
[14:50.160 -> 14:54.320] He lived in my village, and I went to school with him, and, you know, we did things, you know,
[14:54.320 -> 14:58.960] did things that kids do, and I was surrounded, and it was probably the most inspirational story
[14:58.960 -> 15:02.720] I've ever been witness to living was his mum and dad called Paula and Stuart.
[15:03.360 -> 15:06.300] They never saw that he was supposed to make it till 12.
[15:06.300 -> 15:09.440] They said, right, we accept this challenge
[15:09.440 -> 15:12.400] and we're going to make the very best of this boy's life.
[15:12.400 -> 15:15.440] And he passed away at 36 years of age.
[15:15.440 -> 15:17.520] And, but he met Rihanna.
[15:17.520 -> 15:19.280] He met every single Tottenham player.
[15:19.280 -> 15:21.880] He went to every football game.
[15:21.880 -> 15:23.240] You know, he came to me to,
[15:23.240 -> 15:25.280] with me to watch my championships and they would hang out all the Star Wars, the Game of Thrones. I mean, you know, he came to meet with me to watch my championships and
[15:25.280 -> 15:28.560] they would hang out all the Star Wars, the Game of Thrones, I mean you wouldn't
[15:28.560 -> 15:32.920] believe it. It's almost like he's a member of Hollywood or something. But to
[15:32.920 -> 15:37.600] me, people like Dan and Paula and Stuart, they're the real-life people in
[15:37.600 -> 15:42.080] this world that are given a challenging hand but they make the
[15:42.080 -> 15:46.800] decision to accept the situation and find the most positive resolution.
[15:46.800 -> 15:51.300] And I would say that, you know, that is, that's kind of, that's me really, that's a little
[15:51.300 -> 15:52.740] bit of part of my DNA.
[15:52.740 -> 15:57.900] So when did you discover your talent for swimming then? Because like Jake said in the introduction,
[15:57.900 -> 16:02.700] you were an incredible athlete in your own right. So tell us a little bit about that
[16:02.700 -> 16:03.700] journey of discovery.
[16:03.700 -> 16:06.600] I started swimming when I was around seven years of age.
[16:06.600 -> 16:09.800] Again, there was some kind of history around my parents
[16:09.800 -> 16:11.800] and whether or not I had a physical condition
[16:11.800 -> 16:13.680] that would maybe show later on in life.
[16:13.680 -> 16:17.640] So it was basically like, right, swimming exercises all the muscles,
[16:17.640 -> 16:19.960] so you're going to swim in.
[16:19.960 -> 16:21.680] That journey started at four.
[16:21.680 -> 16:24.040] The first fallout with my dad started at five
[16:24.040 -> 16:26.840] because the independent female in me at five
[16:26.840 -> 16:29.360] was convinced that she knew how to swim on her own
[16:29.360 -> 16:33.280] and proceeded to drown in the small pool in Spalding.
[16:33.280 -> 16:36.760] And then I just went three or four times a week
[16:36.760 -> 16:39.880] and then I saw a swimming club and I started,
[16:39.880 -> 16:41.840] they were in two lanes and I was in the public lane.
[16:41.840 -> 16:44.360] And then I was like, right, I'll try and beat them.
[16:44.360 -> 16:50.640] They kind of spotted me and then I went from there really. And then again, that sort of competitive
[16:50.640 -> 16:55.920] animal in me was just like, right, I want to win the lane. I want to win my age group. I want to
[16:55.920 -> 17:01.760] win the club. I want to win, be the best in the club. And I want to then be the best in the county
[17:01.760 -> 17:08.120] and just never really gave up. Just like my boss now says I'm like a Jack Russell with a really good bone.
[17:08.120 -> 17:09.000] I just never give up.
[17:09.040 -> 17:12.400] But the obvious question, Mel, is why, why did you feel you had to win?
[17:12.440 -> 17:13.680] Because it's just who I am.
[17:13.880 -> 17:15.800] It's I've just, that's what I do.
[17:15.920 -> 17:18.760] I guess it's, I've just always wanted to be good.
[17:18.760 -> 17:21.120] I've always wanted to be the best version of myself.
[17:21.120 -> 17:22.520] I've always wanted to win.
[17:22.520 -> 17:25.480] And again, probably because my dad would never let me,
[17:25.480 -> 17:27.280] that, you know, seven, eight, nine,
[17:27.280 -> 17:29.080] 10 year old development for me was like,
[17:29.080 -> 17:31.280] well, I'm going to find a way to win here,
[17:31.280 -> 17:32.600] no matter what it takes.
[17:32.600 -> 17:34.040] And the level is really high
[17:34.040 -> 17:36.240] and I've got to get to that standard.
[17:36.240 -> 17:37.920] And so that's just in me.
[17:37.920 -> 17:39.360] It's a blessing and it's a curse.
[17:39.360 -> 17:42.000] And like most people, you have a,
[17:42.000 -> 17:43.320] there's the little Mel, isn't there?
[17:43.320 -> 17:44.840] And then there's the big Mel.
[17:44.840 -> 17:49.040] And you often, to find the best version of yourself, the little Mel with the insecurities
[17:49.040 -> 17:54.080] and the little fighter is in there. And then you try and overtake it with the Mel that's kind of
[17:54.080 -> 17:59.440] evolving and growing as time goes on. And you went from your parents setting you challenges
[17:59.440 -> 18:03.360] to struggling in that pool in Spalding to wanting to be the best at the club. You ended up as the
[18:03.360 -> 18:08.720] best in the world, winning gold medals, traveling to major tournaments, and then you became a coach.
[18:09.280 -> 18:13.920] So now you coach arguably the best swimmer on the planet, and I think if you speak to anyone,
[18:13.920 -> 18:19.360] they will talk about the importance of your role in his success, and I'm sure you'll be modest and
[18:19.360 -> 18:25.800] play that down, but it can't be denied. So what is it about being a coach that works for you?
[18:25.800 -> 18:27.680] We had someone on the podcast called Suzy Ma
[18:27.680 -> 18:29.360] who spoke about infinite purpose.
[18:29.360 -> 18:30.320] You may have heard it,
[18:30.320 -> 18:32.800] just the never ending purpose in your life.
[18:32.800 -> 18:35.960] So as a coach, what do you see as your infinite purpose?
[18:35.960 -> 18:38.080] Well, I'll take you back to where I started
[18:38.080 -> 18:40.040] and found my reason why.
[18:40.040 -> 18:43.440] So in the Olympic games in 2004,
[18:43.440 -> 18:46.520] I went into the Olympic games ranked fastest in the world
[18:46.520 -> 18:48.240] and I came out with a broken heart
[18:48.240 -> 18:52.040] as you know, they only give out 56 medals every Olympics
[18:52.040 -> 18:54.600] and most people will leave with a broken heart.
[18:54.600 -> 18:57.400] Good old games, it's all good fun, good statistics.
[18:57.400 -> 18:59.000] And anyway, I digress.
[18:59.000 -> 19:01.480] But yeah, my reason why I was born from that moment
[19:01.480 -> 19:03.640] because the competitor in me said,
[19:03.640 -> 19:10.040] I think I can do a much, not much better, but I think I can do a really good job for athletes with everything
[19:10.040 -> 19:16.420] that I know now that I've had frontline experience of. I think that I can do a really good job
[19:16.420 -> 19:22.380] for athletes. That coupled with my competitive spirit, that coupled with my probably innovative
[19:22.380 -> 19:25.840] coaching thinking, that's sort of how I found
[19:25.840 -> 19:34.420] myself into coaching. And sustainable success is founded upon sustainable questioning and
[19:34.420 -> 19:40.520] this sort of thirst and drive to just try and get better. And there's winning once and
[19:40.520 -> 19:47.160] there's winning twice and there's winning better each time. And you've always got to, and me and Adam talk about this regularly,
[19:47.160 -> 19:49.960] but you've always got to start the next one with nothing.
[19:51.160 -> 19:52.920] And so you earn it all again.
[19:54.080 -> 19:55.560] And that taps into your ego,
[19:55.560 -> 19:57.760] that taps into your technicality,
[19:57.760 -> 19:59.800] that taps into your processes.
[19:59.800 -> 20:02.960] But to me, I think that's how I found myself in coaching.
[20:02.960 -> 20:05.920] And my reason why it has always been really strong
[20:05.920 -> 20:08.840] is I want to illuminate people to flourish
[20:08.840 -> 20:10.680] on the highest of stages.
[20:10.680 -> 20:13.520] I want to challenge people when they get that platform
[20:13.520 -> 20:15.160] to do great things with it.
[20:15.160 -> 20:19.520] And my reason why is very much about just help,
[20:19.520 -> 20:22.280] giving people wings to, roots to grow and wings to fly.
[20:22.280 -> 20:24.280] And Damian, you've said that to me before
[20:24.280 -> 20:28.200] and I've stolen it. So if that gets some good intellectual property and hits, that's
[20:28.200 -> 20:32.040] courtesy of Damien Hughes about two years ago in a service station somewhere. So.
[20:32.040 -> 20:35.320] Jason Vale – Love that. Could you go a bit deeper on, um, what was it you said? Sustainable
[20:35.320 -> 20:37.440] success comes from sustainable questioning?
[20:37.440 -> 20:41.860] Kim Tolley – Yeah, so, like I said earlier, you, you go to bed an expert and you wake
[20:41.860 -> 20:47.240] up a novice. And when you've got a performance that is good,
[20:47.240 -> 20:50.520] that is world-leading, you really have to manufacture
[20:50.520 -> 20:52.840] and know what to manufacture to get your motivation
[20:52.840 -> 20:56.360] to keep questioning, keep asking, is there more?
[20:56.360 -> 20:57.880] How do we find it?
[20:57.880 -> 20:59.600] When you're on the run the first time,
[20:59.600 -> 21:01.840] it's all new and it's all, we can try this
[21:01.840 -> 21:04.000] and we can do that and we will get this.
[21:04.000 -> 21:06.040] When you're trying to do it for the fourth, the fifth,
[21:06.040 -> 21:08.840] the sixth time, you really have to manufacture that
[21:08.840 -> 21:12.040] almost like uncomfortableness, as in, no,
[21:12.040 -> 21:13.120] it's not good enough.
[21:13.120 -> 21:15.360] How do we have that critical conversation?
[21:15.360 -> 21:18.140] What is the elephant in the room that we need to discuss?
[21:18.140 -> 21:21.680] What is that conversation that we've not had
[21:21.680 -> 21:22.800] or what is that technicality?
[21:22.800 -> 21:25.040] I don't understand that, I'm frightened of the detail.
[21:25.360 -> 21:28.600] You've really got to push yourself to, you know, cause it could quite easily
[21:28.600 -> 21:31.400] just float along and you could just ride this, this kind of high.
[21:31.400 -> 21:33.720] But if you want more, you have to be more.
[21:33.960 -> 21:36.920] And if you want it to look better, it has to be better.
[21:37.080 -> 21:40.360] And so that for me is that's, that's the point really.
[21:40.360 -> 21:40.800] I love that.
[21:40.840 -> 21:47.800] You pushed over there that 2004 experience Mel, but I'm fascinated in terms of going back to that,
[21:47.800 -> 21:50.040] that you were that competitive animal
[21:50.040 -> 21:51.800] that was going in there as a favorite
[21:51.800 -> 21:53.760] for those Athens games.
[21:53.760 -> 21:56.760] What happened then that enabled you to discover
[21:56.760 -> 21:58.800] that powerful sense of why?
[21:58.800 -> 22:00.080] I think looking back now,
[22:00.080 -> 22:03.080] and I actually did an auto-ethnography
[22:03.080 -> 22:05.680] on the relationship between stress and burnout.
[22:06.320 -> 22:12.400] There's a whole host of reasons of which I'm in a place now where I'm incredibly thankful for it.
[22:14.080 -> 22:19.200] To me, the thing that I would summarize that situation with is balance.
[22:20.480 -> 22:29.840] In terms of when you, Jacob, you've got a real thirst, I can see, when you talk to other people around that thing with, you know, a dad and a high achiever, a dad and
[22:29.840 -> 22:33.120] a high achiever, and it kind of pulls you either side.
[22:33.120 -> 22:36.760] And what I learned through those Athens Olympics was the power of balance.
[22:36.760 -> 22:41.360] How can you push to the highest heights, but also sustain your integrity, sustain the things
[22:41.360 -> 22:50.320] that matter to you, sustain the pace in which you travel at through your work. And that was the thing that that taught me was the power of balance and everything. And
[22:50.320 -> 22:54.880] you've got to know what your inner balance is, because I think that some people have the ability
[22:54.880 -> 23:00.400] to churn work and it doesn't compromise certain things. I think once it compromises your happiness,
[23:00.400 -> 23:05.960] your wellbeing, your ability to drive harder, then you need to recheck where your balance is.
[23:05.960 -> 23:07.760] But I think that answers your question, Damien,
[23:07.760 -> 23:10.520] around what the Athens Olympics teach me
[23:10.520 -> 23:11.620] about high performance.
[23:11.620 -> 23:15.360] It was the power of making sure you make progress,
[23:15.360 -> 23:17.280] but how you maintain a balance
[23:17.280 -> 23:18.920] to strike your hardest punch.
[23:18.920 -> 23:22.000] So you've got that, in terms of me, completely right, Mel,
[23:22.000 -> 23:24.920] this push and pull constantly between fatherhood
[23:24.920 -> 23:26.920] and wanting to go out and be a high achiever
[23:26.920 -> 23:28.880] and the big picture about what's it all about,
[23:28.880 -> 23:30.420] the answer I always come back to
[23:30.420 -> 23:31.940] is it should just be about being a dad,
[23:31.940 -> 23:35.160] but then I feel like there's something else there as well.
[23:35.160 -> 23:39.440] So I'm 42 and have not been able to find the answer.
[23:39.440 -> 23:42.800] What are the questions that I'm maybe not asking myself
[23:42.800 -> 23:46.400] about how to get the balance, do you think? Maybe it's Gaham-Miller Maybe it's not the questions you're asking
[23:46.400 -> 23:49.920] of yourself, maybe it's the questions you're asking the people around you. I think the thing is, it's
[23:49.920 -> 23:56.480] ask the people around you, but also it's a constant checking in. Because, you know, ultimately...
[23:56.480 -> 23:58.400] Paul Mark What with yourself or with other people?
[23:58.400 -> 24:01.680] Julie Gaham-Miller Everybody, your team, you know, and the team
[24:01.680 -> 24:05.300] involves your home team and your professional team.
[24:05.300 -> 24:08.000] And I think it's about how you regularly check in.
[24:08.000 -> 24:11.200] Like, it's almost like we presume family and friends
[24:11.200 -> 24:12.720] will just always be there.
[24:12.720 -> 24:15.080] We don't ring, we don't check in,
[24:15.080 -> 24:17.520] but yet at work we would do every kind of debrief
[24:17.520 -> 24:20.520] that you would ever imagine to make things better.
[24:20.520 -> 24:23.160] Yet in our personal lives, we like stop the debrief
[24:23.160 -> 24:24.640] because we just presume, oh, that's ticked,
[24:24.640 -> 24:25.600] that's all set up.
[24:25.600 -> 24:28.880] Well, I just think if you want your relationships to evolve,
[24:28.880 -> 24:30.440] if you want family to involve,
[24:30.440 -> 24:32.320] you want your personal life to evolve,
[24:32.320 -> 24:34.900] it's how you debrief and keep having conversations
[24:34.900 -> 24:36.440] about the things that matter.
[24:36.440 -> 24:39.260] And again, just keeping that balance in check.
[24:39.260 -> 24:41.380] And sometimes we're actually doing a better job
[24:41.380 -> 24:42.460] than we think.
[24:42.460 -> 24:45.440] And sometimes it's okay to strive and be the role
[24:45.440 -> 24:51.680] model in what it is to try and be the best version of yourself. And, you know, I think that's okay.
[24:51.680 -> 24:58.240] Your job basically, right, is to win medals for Adam and to help him win Olympic gold around now.
[24:58.880 -> 25:04.480] So what if you feel that he's not spending enough time with his newborn child, or I'm not sure that
[25:04.480 -> 25:06.360] he's caring enough about his friends
[25:06.360 -> 25:08.120] who've always been there for him.
[25:08.120 -> 25:10.100] Do you have that conversation with him,
[25:10.100 -> 25:12.400] which kind of might cause even more issues
[25:12.400 -> 25:13.360] for you winning the medals,
[25:13.360 -> 25:14.880] because you're actually saying,
[25:14.880 -> 25:15.960] go and have some home time?
[25:15.960 -> 25:18.400] Yeah, I think when I started coaching,
[25:18.400 -> 25:21.800] I was very in tune with my moral purpose straight away.
[25:21.800 -> 25:24.320] And to me, people comes before performance.
[25:24.320 -> 25:25.560] And if you put people
[25:25.560 -> 25:31.320] before performance, performance will take care of itself. So if Adam's happy, if Adam's
[25:31.320 -> 25:37.280] in check with his family, if Adam's home team's good, if Adam's feeling like his, you know,
[25:37.280 -> 25:41.840] his energy cup is being filled with the right things, you know, he will perform. And that's
[25:41.840 -> 25:46.960] the bit to me that I take care of first. You know, whenever Adam, you know, achieves things,
[25:46.960 -> 25:49.480] I'm always super, super happy for him
[25:49.480 -> 25:52.160] because God, he's an incredible athlete to work with.
[25:53.400 -> 25:56.880] But to me, the win is that when he walks away from this,
[25:56.880 -> 25:59.960] he'll be able to reflect and go, I did it right.
[25:59.960 -> 26:02.040] And when I ask him the question at the end of his career,
[26:02.040 -> 26:04.480] who are you without those medals?
[26:04.480 -> 26:08.320] If he can answer me that, then I've won in coaching.
[26:08.320 -> 26:11.760] Because to me, medals is one part of the balance.
[26:11.760 -> 26:14.320] The person is the 110% the other part.
[26:14.320 -> 26:17.800] And my job as a coach and that community coach
[26:17.800 -> 26:19.900] in my heart that I am, that person that is in touch
[26:19.900 -> 26:23.500] with my moral purpose in this journey of coaching
[26:23.500 -> 26:26.800] is very much around, you have to be able to answer both.
[26:26.800 -> 26:28.880] Are you happy with the career that you had?
[26:28.880 -> 26:30.840] And are you happy with the person you became
[26:30.840 -> 26:34.760] through the triumphs and adversities that you faced?
[26:34.760 -> 26:37.160] And if they can answer yes to both of that,
[26:37.160 -> 26:39.280] then that to me is all I'll ever need
[26:39.280 -> 26:40.520] in terms of recognition.
[26:40.520 -> 26:43.640] So when you finished as an athlete then Mel,
[26:43.640 -> 26:46.160] were you able to answer both of those questions?
[26:46.160 -> 26:47.840] It took me time, Damien.
[26:47.840 -> 26:50.560] It took me some hurt, took me some anxieties.
[26:50.560 -> 26:53.640] It took me some, you know, some lost space,
[26:53.640 -> 26:55.400] but in the end I was,
[26:55.400 -> 26:58.000] and one of my proudest moments actually as an athlete was
[26:58.000 -> 27:00.200] when I finished, you know, I mean,
[27:00.200 -> 27:02.720] a lot of people won't know because, you know,
[27:02.720 -> 27:04.520] swimming is a little bit less high profile,
[27:04.520 -> 27:10.080] but you know, our Olympic relay team came ninth and we had arrested two athletes
[27:10.080 -> 27:14.080] and one of those was the Olympic champion and one of those was an Olympic finalist.
[27:14.080 -> 27:16.960] And effectively we probably could have got an Olympic medal.
[27:16.960 -> 27:22.420] And I remember off that ninth place whereby we just watched it, we just watched it unfold
[27:22.420 -> 27:23.420] in front of our eyes.
[27:23.420 -> 27:27.000] And I remember swimming down afterwards in my last swim,
[27:27.000 -> 27:28.800] which was what was going to be ever.
[27:28.800 -> 27:31.320] And I just remember thinking, you've done all right,
[27:31.320 -> 27:35.240] you have, you know, and the reason I found that space
[27:35.240 -> 27:38.120] was because of the traumas that I experienced in 2004
[27:38.120 -> 27:41.600] and the reflection space that I'd given myself after that.
[27:41.600 -> 27:43.240] And it came down to this,
[27:43.240 -> 27:48.640] if you try your 110% best at something, you
[27:48.640 -> 27:54.840] never fail because you don't let yourself down. You'll win some, you'll lose some, but
[27:54.840 -> 27:59.640] you'll never, ever fail because you've given your very best. And if I look back at my athletic
[27:59.640 -> 28:05.040] career, I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't try anything different because I look back and
[28:05.040 -> 28:10.800] go, I give it my best. I didn't win all of them. I didn't lose all of them. But every
[28:10.800 -> 28:14.400] time I stood up there, I stood up there with integrity and passion and my very best effort
[28:14.400 -> 28:20.440] and my heart and soul on my sleeve. And I'm proud of that. My mom's proud of that. And
[28:20.440 -> 28:21.920] that's all I really need, really.
[28:21.920 -> 28:25.320] I love it.
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[30:33.000 -> 30:35.000] Felly, pab yn eich helpu chi fel coach?
[30:35.000 -> 30:38.000] Ac ar hyn o bryd, rydych chi ddim yn athleg,
[30:38.000 -> 30:39.000] ond yn coach a pherson.
[30:39.000 -> 30:41.000] Pab yn eich coach chi ar hyn o bryd
[30:41.000 -> 30:43.000] i gadw'r cwestiynau hynny'n ddiogel
[30:43.000 -> 31:06.840] a chael eich gydaelu'r cyd-dreth? Mae fy mentorareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r gweithgareddau a'r g it's an offload to a reload. So I need to offload my frustrations to reload my actions.
[31:06.840 -> 31:09.480] And for me, you know, the coaching mentor,
[31:09.480 -> 31:11.400] I've had some great people that I've, you know,
[31:11.400 -> 31:13.720] I've grown up through swimming with,
[31:13.720 -> 31:16.920] and also as well, you know, a lot of the,
[31:16.920 -> 31:18.020] I talk to a lot of people.
[31:18.020 -> 31:20.040] I went on a journey a couple of years ago, Damien,
[31:20.040 -> 31:22.560] as you know, because I came and interviewed you.
[31:22.560 -> 31:24.640] And again, just, I went and I was a bit lost
[31:24.640 -> 31:26.240] in my leadership and I was like, what do I need?
[31:26.240 -> 31:27.080] What do I want?
[31:27.080 -> 31:27.900] Where am I at?
[31:27.900 -> 31:28.740] Who am I?
[31:28.740 -> 31:32.000] Where do I sit in this kind of, this new role?
[31:32.000 -> 31:34.000] And I just went and, you know, I spent time
[31:34.000 -> 31:37.880] with 24 different leaders from different places,
[31:37.880 -> 31:40.080] you know, including people like Alex Ferguson,
[31:40.080 -> 31:43.120] Eddie Jones, yourself, Adrian Morehouse,
[31:43.120 -> 31:44.280] some really great people.
[31:44.280 -> 31:47.640] And I just felt myself growing from that experience.
[31:47.640 -> 31:49.960] So I guess when I'm lost
[31:49.960 -> 31:51.800] and I don't know how to find the answers,
[31:51.800 -> 31:55.000] to me, sometimes winning the poo is right.
[31:55.000 -> 31:57.800] Sometimes the best thing to do is to do nothing.
[31:57.800 -> 32:00.480] And then sometimes the other side is
[32:00.480 -> 32:03.760] you have to find the answers that you don't have.
[32:03.760 -> 32:06.800] And sometimes that explorative space
[32:06.800 -> 32:09.120] where you don't quite know what you're looking for,
[32:09.120 -> 32:11.600] like when I'm not sure whether I wanna go on a run
[32:11.600 -> 32:14.560] and then I go on a run with a high performance podcast,
[32:14.560 -> 32:16.360] I'm like, I wasn't sure that I was looking,
[32:16.360 -> 32:17.920] what I was looking for, but actually,
[32:17.920 -> 32:19.520] thank you, Joe Malone this morning
[32:19.520 -> 32:21.360] for telling me what you've told me.
[32:21.360 -> 32:23.320] To me, it's that always have someone
[32:23.320 -> 32:24.620] that you can be a sounding board to,
[32:24.620 -> 32:29.280] so you can offload to reload, take time to explore. Sometimes
[32:29.280 -> 32:33.640] you don't know what you're looking for until you explore. And the third one is just keep
[32:33.640 -> 32:35.320] asking questions, keep checking in.
[32:35.320 -> 32:39.560] What answer did you find Mel when you had that, that time out, when you went and spoke
[32:39.560 -> 32:40.560] to all those people?
[32:40.560 -> 32:45.360] Well, it's interesting, and Damian, you absolutely nailed it. And like you literally,
[32:45.360 -> 32:50.560] I don't think you quite understand how thankful I was after that conversation around how you,
[32:50.560 -> 32:56.000] you basically put a framework around a lot of lost thoughts. And I was, I'd come from
[32:56.000 -> 33:02.400] a program where I was, where my position in my leadership role was all up front, all doing
[33:02.400 -> 33:05.360] everything, you know, all singing and dancing. And then I came into a system,
[33:05.360 -> 33:12.960] which is an amazing system. But I was like, I'm not sure where my role is here. And the culture
[33:12.960 -> 33:18.480] was still a great culture, but it was a different culture to what I had delivered when I delivered
[33:18.480 -> 33:26.720] it as the leader of my program. But once I found out what rules I was playing against, I was able to come up with this kind of new skill set.
[33:26.720 -> 33:28.840] So Damien, you've talked about it before.
[33:28.840 -> 33:32.720] I am 110% commitment culture leader.
[33:32.720 -> 33:35.000] That's just who I am.
[33:35.000 -> 33:37.720] Now I sit inside a system that isn't like that,
[33:37.720 -> 33:39.880] but it's still working incredibly well.
[33:39.880 -> 33:43.280] I've had to learn how to lead in a different way.
[33:43.280 -> 33:45.560] Like I'm very upfront leader, whereas I've had to learn how do I invis a different way. Like I'm very upfront leader,
[33:45.560 -> 33:48.500] whereas I've had to learn how do I invisibly lead here?
[33:48.500 -> 33:49.600] How do I influence?
[33:49.600 -> 33:52.400] How do I create the changes that I want
[33:52.400 -> 33:54.680] and not get the recognition that I would like,
[33:54.680 -> 33:56.600] which is really important for me as a person
[33:56.600 -> 33:59.520] to sort of like be seen or it's love for me.
[33:59.520 -> 34:01.560] You know, leadership, you know, in my old role,
[34:01.560 -> 34:02.640] I felt a lot of love.
[34:03.960 -> 34:06.660] And so I had to learn this kind of new skillset of,
[34:06.660 -> 34:09.860] right, okay, Mel, put your ego out of the way,
[34:09.860 -> 34:13.140] and it's not about you, and you're not gonna save the day
[34:13.140 -> 34:15.460] and come in here on your giant horse.
[34:15.460 -> 34:18.020] You have to learn how to make the changes quietly
[34:18.020 -> 34:20.700] and influence around the edges.
[34:20.700 -> 34:23.900] And so that was one of the things I learned.
[34:23.900 -> 34:26.640] Also with those guys, the people
[34:26.640 -> 34:32.720] that I met, what a fascinating group of people, but authenticity was the thing that I learned.
[34:32.720 -> 34:38.880] I met 24 great people, but none of them did it the same way. And I think authenticity
[34:38.880 -> 34:44.400] is incredibly important, but it's how you have the education and knowledge and mastery
[34:44.400 -> 34:46.280] to deliver your content and your
[34:46.280 -> 34:50.720] communication and the way you go about your business in your authentic way.
[34:50.720 -> 34:55.560] And I think that's where you really take people with you when you can have all of those things.
[34:55.560 -> 35:00.720] But amazing things are like people like Catherine Granger, just on the opening call was just
[35:00.720 -> 35:04.460] like sport matters incredibly and deeply to this country.
[35:04.460 -> 35:07.640] And I'd forgotten that. And then people like, um,
[35:08.320 -> 35:10.920] Chelsea Warrie was head of performance for UK sports. She just said,
[35:10.920 -> 35:12.480] you need to know yourself,
[35:12.640 -> 35:15.560] your inner self and how you're projecting to everybody else.
[35:16.160 -> 35:19.320] And just amazing things like that, like Paula Dunn,
[35:19.320 -> 35:23.320] who's in British Para-athletics. She said how to give critical,
[35:23.320 -> 35:27.200] difficult feedback with emotionally sensitive
[35:27.200 -> 35:30.640] preparation and delivery. And just, whoa.
[35:30.640 -> 35:32.800] I'm making notes like you wouldn't believe right here.
[35:34.320 -> 35:38.320] Would you just explain the importance of, you know, through the work with Damien as well,
[35:38.320 -> 35:41.760] of commitment culture for people listening to this? You know, we have a lot of teachers,
[35:41.760 -> 35:45.320] we have a lot of business leaders, we have a lot of people working in teams, and they're always
[35:45.320 -> 35:49.760] looking for help and advice when it comes to cultures. What is it? Why does it
[35:49.760 -> 35:50.600] work so well for you?
[35:50.680 -> 35:54.720] I think it works so well for me is because it aligns with my moral purpose.
[35:54.960 -> 35:58.040] And I think if you're in line with your moral purpose, and you're in line with
[35:58.040 -> 36:03.200] your reason why I think there's this, this 10% factor, the 20% factor that you
[36:03.200 -> 36:06.560] can get out of people for no finance,
[36:06.560 -> 36:09.760] for no, for nothing, just because they're all aligned to one mission.
[36:09.760 -> 36:12.160] And it's really easily seen.
[36:12.160 -> 36:14.920] Always talk about the endurance of parents.
[36:14.920 -> 36:19.360] So when I was in my old club job, you know, the endurance of some of these parents at
[36:19.360 -> 36:24.120] five in the morning until seven at night, selling on the tombola to help raise funds,
[36:24.120 -> 36:31.440] helping with charity missions, you know, helping at the meets and stuff. Their moral purpose was, sounds really, really soft and
[36:31.440 -> 36:36.960] flake, but love. And they were so in line with how much they loved their children and how much
[36:36.960 -> 36:42.240] they loved what their children were doing, they gave you an extra 20%. And I just think it comes
[36:42.240 -> 36:47.920] back to that, it comes back to me, it's like, to create a real commitment culture,
[36:47.920 -> 36:52.920] you have to lead, inform, and inspire people to fall in love
[36:52.960 -> 36:56.520] with the same things that are important to you,
[36:56.520 -> 36:58.280] but also to fall in love with the journey
[36:58.280 -> 37:00.840] they're going to go on to reach a destination.
[37:00.840 -> 37:04.200] And even if you win or lose at the end of the destination,
[37:04.200 -> 37:06.740] the journey that you create to get there,
[37:06.740 -> 37:08.440] they will always look back on as something that,
[37:08.440 -> 37:10.520] God, I'm glad I took that opportunity.
[37:10.520 -> 37:12.760] How common is phrases like love?
[37:12.760 -> 37:15.240] Because I'm interested in that club period
[37:15.240 -> 37:17.520] where you were delivering phenomenal results,
[37:17.520 -> 37:20.000] but you had the chance to shape it.
[37:20.000 -> 37:23.200] How unique was that in your experience, Mel?
[37:23.200 -> 37:24.080] I think a lot of people do.
[37:24.080 -> 37:25.880] I think when you look at the volunteer communities
[37:25.880 -> 37:28.440] of sport and people, you know, people do it for the love.
[37:28.440 -> 37:30.600] They don't do it for, you know, the finance or anything.
[37:30.600 -> 37:33.640] But if I look at why did we make something possible
[37:33.640 -> 37:35.520] in an impossible situation?
[37:35.520 -> 37:36.640] And it really was, Damien,
[37:36.640 -> 37:39.280] it was just about daring to love something,
[37:39.280 -> 37:42.560] naively pursuing it, and just not giving up on it.
[37:42.560 -> 37:45.480] And if I look at the love and passion and commitment,
[37:45.480 -> 37:47.960] I gave the kids, the parents, the committee,
[37:47.960 -> 37:50.720] and those first six years of my job,
[37:50.720 -> 37:52.340] and then I look at what I needed
[37:52.340 -> 37:55.500] in the last two years of my job and how much I got back,
[37:55.500 -> 37:56.960] oh, it was tenfold.
[37:56.960 -> 37:59.680] Even now, if I ring one of the parents,
[37:59.680 -> 38:01.120] Rhianna Sheehan's dad,
[38:02.400 -> 38:04.680] I took his daughter from 12 all the way to 18,
[38:04.680 -> 38:05.920] she had a great journey.
[38:05.920 -> 38:12.320] If my gas boiler went in the middle of the night, he would come and help me. I gave my
[38:12.320 -> 38:18.920] full commitment and full passion and everything to those kids at the time. What we're so afraid
[38:18.920 -> 38:25.360] of now is we live in a society and systemically, if there are, Klopp spoke about it the other day,
[38:25.360 -> 38:31.040] if there are a hundred things that go well, most people pick up on the one thing that's not great.
[38:31.680 -> 38:36.080] And I just think that we get crushed and crushed and crushed. But I think you've just got to keep
[38:36.080 -> 38:41.120] coming with the 99 things that are great every day and find those things and not let the one
[38:41.120 -> 38:45.960] thing crush you down. One of my swimmers said to me once, kill them with kindness.
[38:45.960 -> 38:47.760] And God, it's powerful.
[38:47.760 -> 38:50.320] It's like, you know, when that road rage person
[38:50.320 -> 38:53.440] comes across and tries to, you know, cut you up.
[38:53.440 -> 38:55.600] I remember being dressed as an elf one Christmas
[38:55.600 -> 38:56.880] and I thought, you know what?
[38:56.880 -> 38:58.200] I'm going to kill this guy with kindness
[38:58.200 -> 38:59.240] because I'm going to get out and dance
[38:59.240 -> 39:00.680] in the middle of the road like an elf.
[39:00.680 -> 39:02.600] And everyone was like cheering in the area.
[39:02.600 -> 39:03.920] But it's just like, you know,
[39:03.920 -> 39:07.440] I was in control of the situation because I was like, I'm going to kill you with some kindness here, mate.
[39:07.440 -> 39:07.920] Love it.
[39:09.440 -> 39:14.000] Would you tell us some of the successes then that you had in that club environment,
[39:14.000 -> 39:19.360] beyond the obvious of seeing Adam and his emergence? I'm interested in some of those
[39:19.360 -> 39:23.440] other human stories, like I love the idea of the guy coming to fit your gas boiler.
[39:23.440 -> 39:23.600] Yeah.
[39:23.600 -> 39:27.200] What are the sort of stories that still light you up and can keep you warm at night?
[39:27.200 -> 39:31.120] Oh, there's so many, Damien. And you know, I'm a community coach, I'm a performance coach,
[39:31.120 -> 39:35.080] but there's still a community coach in me at heart. And, you know, I took a group of
[39:35.080 -> 39:39.400] kids and they were from the age of 12. And I saw them all the way through to 18, really.
[39:39.400 -> 39:46.640] And there were so many stories of triumphs, but we had this mantra of, you're going to go to your Olympics,
[39:46.640 -> 39:50.720] whatever that might be. That might be the county championships, that might be the actual Olympic
[39:50.720 -> 39:56.080] games. There's no ceilings, there's no boundaries. I just want your energy, enthusiasm, and your
[39:56.080 -> 40:00.160] constant commitment, and we'll get you to your Olympics, whatever that might be. That might be
[40:00.160 -> 40:04.480] to finish swimming and go on to college. That might be to do your A-levels and balance that
[40:04.480 -> 40:09.360] out with swimming at the same time. And if I look at what came out of that program, I started that
[40:09.360 -> 40:16.000] program and it had 12 regional standard swimmers. I had four lanes, I had dodgy lane ropes, I had a
[40:16.000 -> 40:20.880] 30-meter pool that had not been emptied in 45 years, it would regularly break. And in the end,
[40:20.880 -> 40:25.120] I left, I had Adam who won the Olympics, I had a young guy called Lewis who
[40:25.120 -> 40:31.600] got a bronze at the Paralympics in the same year. I had two kids on scholarships to America.
[40:31.600 -> 40:36.720] I have kids with thousands and thousands of memories around what we did. There was no
[40:36.720 -> 40:42.580] gym facilities, but we would just run in the local town centre. And at Christmas, I'd make
[40:42.580 -> 40:45.600] everybody dress up as Santa Claus, including Kyle's dad, who hated running. And at Christmas, I'd make everybody dress up as Santa Claus, including
[40:45.600 -> 40:49.380] Kyle's dad, who hated running. And we would have all the kids around the city of center
[40:49.380 -> 40:53.600] of Derby just running around as Santa Claus. And I'd have them doing, you know, Christmas
[40:53.600 -> 40:58.380] challenges. Now in my little mind, it was like, well, actually, if I pretend by taking
[40:58.380 -> 41:03.040] them bowling and doing fun barbecues, then what I'll do is I won't lose a week of training
[41:03.040 -> 41:07.160] before Christmas when they all normally slack it off.
[41:07.160 -> 41:12.440] But there was a real good story around a girl called Fran Baldwin, and she works for me
[41:12.440 -> 41:15.120] now and she's a master's student at Loughborough.
[41:15.120 -> 41:21.680] And now Fran, she wasn't the most talented swimmer, and she was one of three girls, and
[41:21.680 -> 41:26.120] her dad brought her the first time and he was like, look, we're not getting too involved.
[41:26.120 -> 41:29.080] We're going to go a couple of times a week, eight years down the line.
[41:29.080 -> 41:30.480] He's got one kid in America.
[41:30.480 -> 41:33.920] He's been on the team manager for seven trips and all that sort of stuff.
[41:33.920 -> 41:37.880] Anyway, so Fran Baldwin just really encompasses everything
[41:37.880 -> 41:41.360] that we tried to do in that program, because I think we got her to her Olympics,
[41:41.360 -> 41:42.920] which was a national championships.
[41:42.920 -> 41:45.120] And she, you know, the qualification
[41:45.120 -> 41:49.280] standard that she needed to do. She was the ankle leg in the relay and she just blew something out
[41:49.280 -> 41:55.440] of nowhere. But that to me is the power of sport. And you can have all the technical manuals in the
[41:55.440 -> 42:00.480] world and all of the detail from all of the best scientists in the world, but it's human
[42:00.480 -> 42:05.920] connectivity, it's enthusiasm and it's emotion that finds those brilliant moments.
[42:05.920 -> 42:07.360] Look at the pyramids, right?
[42:07.360 -> 42:09.440] You didn't see a spreadsheet there, did you?
[42:09.440 -> 42:10.840] You saw like, we want to do this,
[42:10.840 -> 42:13.280] and we're going to get all these people in one place
[42:13.280 -> 42:14.200] with a great vision,
[42:14.200 -> 42:16.760] and we're going to make something impossible happen.
[42:16.760 -> 42:18.600] And that's what people go to work for.
[42:18.600 -> 42:21.080] They go to work for that human connectivity.
[42:21.080 -> 42:23.280] And that, you know, that moment,
[42:23.280 -> 42:25.040] like that's the beauty of sport, isn't it, guys?
[42:25.040 -> 42:28.360] It's like, it's the only thing left whereby,
[42:28.360 -> 42:30.400] because of the cutthroat nature of it in some ways,
[42:30.400 -> 42:33.520] but it lifts people out of their seats in the living room.
[42:33.520 -> 42:35.480] It's so good when it comes off.
[42:35.480 -> 42:40.000] It's like those stories of triumph and misery and suffering
[42:40.000 -> 42:41.920] and how people have found a way through.
[42:41.920 -> 42:44.320] And I think it just makes me think
[42:44.320 -> 42:45.440] about the Olympics this summer.
[42:45.440 -> 42:49.200] And I just think the NHS has been in charge of health
[42:49.200 -> 42:50.520] and what a job it's done.
[42:50.520 -> 42:52.720] But I feel my moral purpose this summer is
[42:53.720 -> 42:55.680] sports in charge of hope.
[42:55.680 -> 42:58.240] And I feel very, very proud to, you know,
[42:58.240 -> 43:01.280] take the hope for the nation into a summer games
[43:01.280 -> 43:04.120] and go and get and show people, you know,
[43:04.120 -> 43:06.160] despite the world going stationary,
[43:06.160 -> 43:11.120] there's been some people that have found a way to find amazing performance. And, you
[43:11.120 -> 43:14.720] know, I feel so proud of, you know, the guys that I work with and what we've been through
[43:14.720 -> 43:20.120] and, and how we can potentially provide some hope this summer that, you know, things can
[43:20.120 -> 43:23.160] still move at a fast pace.
[43:23.160 -> 43:26.560] So inspiring. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us like this.
[43:26.560 -> 43:28.000] It is wonderful to sit here.
[43:28.000 -> 43:30.560] And as I keep worrying that I'm looking down,
[43:30.560 -> 43:32.000] I'm only making notes, right?
[43:32.000 -> 43:33.200] It's not, I'm not listening.
[43:33.200 -> 43:35.720] There's so many things I want to sort of take out from this.
[43:35.720 -> 43:37.560] I'm just writing down about the pyramids
[43:37.560 -> 43:39.320] being a good lesson for us to realise
[43:39.320 -> 43:40.600] that it's not all about spreadsheets
[43:40.600 -> 43:43.280] and mathematics equations.
[43:43.280 -> 43:44.480] You sit here and talk to us
[43:44.480 -> 43:47.000] and you are so deeply connected emotionally
[43:47.000 -> 43:48.560] to your athletes, to your sport,
[43:48.560 -> 43:50.400] to your sort of infinite purpose,
[43:50.400 -> 43:51.880] to what you want to achieve.
[43:51.880 -> 43:54.240] And I think that, of course,
[43:54.240 -> 43:55.680] you still do the real hard stuff.
[43:55.680 -> 43:56.600] We'll talk about that in a minute,
[43:56.600 -> 43:58.340] about how you really get someone like Adam
[43:58.340 -> 44:01.080] to dig so deep that he doesn't feel he can go any further
[44:01.080 -> 44:03.400] and you push him a little bit further than that.
[44:03.400 -> 44:05.080] But you clearly have so much to give,
[44:05.080 -> 44:07.960] so much to offer as a female.
[44:07.960 -> 44:11.040] So why are only 10% of elite coaching roles
[44:11.040 -> 44:12.320] filled by women?
[44:12.320 -> 44:13.960] What's going on there?
[44:13.960 -> 44:15.640] I think it's a really interesting question.
[44:15.640 -> 44:17.980] I'm glad that we are starting to now ask the question
[44:17.980 -> 44:19.520] because I think if we ask the question,
[44:19.520 -> 44:22.200] we can start to find the solutions.
[44:22.200 -> 44:25.040] To me, I think it's about platforms,
[44:25.040 -> 44:26.640] it's about creating role models.
[44:26.640 -> 44:29.080] I think it's about putting people in positions
[44:29.080 -> 44:31.080] whereby they have the opportunity.
[44:31.080 -> 44:32.520] Now, some research would suggest
[44:32.520 -> 44:33.680] that they would employ a male
[44:33.680 -> 44:35.160] based on what they think he can do,
[44:35.160 -> 44:37.560] whereas a woman has to have already done it,
[44:37.560 -> 44:39.480] which is an interesting concept.
[44:39.480 -> 44:41.580] I used to be a bit blind to all this
[44:41.580 -> 44:45.480] because I'm probably just quite hell-bent and tough. But if I look at, I have had to be a bit blind to all this because I'm probably just quite hell-bent and tough.
[44:45.480 -> 44:52.160] But if I look at, I have had to be extraordinary to get into the position that I've been in.
[44:52.160 -> 44:57.480] And I just think it's about why do people have to be completely extraordinary to be
[44:57.480 -> 44:58.940] in a good position?
[44:58.940 -> 45:02.640] Why can't they just be really good and ordinary?
[45:02.640 -> 45:07.280] If I look at the battles that I've had to face over the years, and some of them have been
[45:07.280 -> 45:10.840] quite extraordinary, and we should make it much easier.
[45:10.840 -> 45:15.000] It shouldn't be difficult to try and bring yourself
[45:15.000 -> 45:17.240] to the forefront when you've got a good skillset.
[45:17.240 -> 45:19.760] And the other side of that is we have to be good enough.
[45:19.760 -> 45:22.560] Like I'm a big believer of, you don't just get the job
[45:22.560 -> 45:24.920] because of, we should be ticking boxes.
[45:24.920 -> 45:26.760] We need to be good enough.
[45:26.760 -> 45:29.080] And I think that if we start talking about it
[45:29.080 -> 45:32.200] and creating opportunities for people to be good enough,
[45:32.200 -> 45:35.000] that's a really nice, that's a really good starting point.
[45:35.000 -> 45:38.600] And what are the things that as a female coach you offer
[45:38.600 -> 45:40.960] that no matter how much a male coach would try,
[45:40.960 -> 45:43.280] they, you don't think they can, or is that,
[45:43.280 -> 45:44.560] is that not something?
[45:44.560 -> 45:50.600] I just think any good coach has a coaching toolbox. Any good leader has a leadership
[45:50.600 -> 45:54.560] toolbox. You know, a good leader knows how to be the disciplinary and the teacher, the
[45:54.560 -> 45:59.200] priest, the counsellor. It's all those kinds of things. And if I summarise this, and it's
[45:59.200 -> 46:04.080] much thicker and deeper than just men and women, but I think there's feminine qualities
[46:04.080 -> 46:05.360] to leadership and coaching, and I think there's feminine qualities to leadership and coaching,
[46:05.360 -> 46:07.400] and I think there's masculine qualities
[46:07.400 -> 46:09.400] to leadership and coaching.
[46:09.400 -> 46:11.920] And I think a good coach has the breadth
[46:11.920 -> 46:15.000] to be able to flex across all that spectrum.
[46:15.000 -> 46:18.280] So to me, a more masculine trait would be autocratic,
[46:18.280 -> 46:20.120] direct, and quite disciplined
[46:20.120 -> 46:21.600] in the way that they would give feedback.
[46:21.600 -> 46:23.720] A more feminine way of doing it would be empathetic,
[46:23.720 -> 46:25.800] understanding, questioning, and listening.
[46:25.800 -> 46:28.600] And to me, a good coach should be able to do
[46:28.600 -> 46:30.520] what you would class as feminine qualities
[46:30.520 -> 46:32.120] and masculine qualities.
[46:32.120 -> 46:35.600] And if I look at me, I would say it's much,
[46:35.600 -> 46:39.160] as a female, I think I've got a good skillset
[46:39.160 -> 46:42.720] when it comes to providing direction, setting clarity,
[46:42.720 -> 46:45.600] and having those tough and challenging conversations.
[46:45.600 -> 46:49.400] And I'm also good at crying and showing empathy.
[46:49.400 -> 46:51.960] And if I asked a male coach, I'd be like,
[46:51.960 -> 46:53.920] have you ever cried in front of your athletes?
[46:53.920 -> 46:56.880] And my S&C coach, who I loved a bit,
[46:56.880 -> 46:59.000] he was like, I haven't cried in like seven years,
[46:59.000 -> 47:00.500] it's a problem.
[47:00.500 -> 47:04.000] So I just think it's about how you go into your coaching
[47:04.000 -> 47:10.680] toolbox and you realize that there are potentially more masculine ways of doing it and more feminine and explore those feminine traits.
[47:10.680 -> 47:13.920] But both male and female coaches can offer both.
[47:14.240 -> 47:17.120] 100% it's a skill, like you're an actor.
[47:17.440 -> 47:19.200] And like, you need to be able to act in every role.
[47:19.480 -> 47:21.840] And you need to be authentic and know your content.
[47:22.120 -> 47:26.080] You know, Matthew McGonaghey talked about when he went into that role and he winged it the first time,
[47:26.080 -> 47:29.440] but when he owned who it was, it then became authentic.
[47:29.440 -> 47:32.400] So to me, it's about being able to do the whole spectrum
[47:32.400 -> 47:36.440] and range, you know, your ability to do what you would like.
[47:36.440 -> 47:40.640] You know, sometimes my coaching mentor would say to me,
[47:40.640 -> 47:42.360] say, look, you need to get better at,
[47:42.360 -> 47:44.240] you're really good at damsel in distress
[47:44.240 -> 47:47.360] and you're really good at iron maiden. You struggle with the bits in between. And it's the same look, you need to get better at, you're really good at damsel in distress, and you're really good at Iron Maiden. You struggle with the bits in between.
[47:47.360 -> 47:51.120] And it's the same thing as if you're a male coach and a female coach. If a male coach,
[47:51.120 -> 47:56.240] you might be really good at the Iron Maiden, but are you good in the asking for help and
[47:56.240 -> 48:00.400] showing your vulnerabilities and showing your insecurities around certain things?
[48:00.400 -> 48:04.320] Samuel Leeds Hi there. We're here with Think.
[48:04.320 -> 48:07.160] We're going to be talking about bad habits, both on the
[48:07.160 -> 48:12.100] road and off the road, and talking about whether or not we think they're acceptable. As well
[48:12.100 -> 48:15.500] as that, we're going to be dissecting some of the bad habits of some of the most famous
[48:15.500 -> 48:21.460] sports people on the planet, and highlighting how they've managed to kick them to the curb.
[48:21.460 -> 48:29.200] So Damian, this next segment of the High Performance Podcast is brought to people in association with think. It's so interesting to see how people's minds work, I think,
[48:29.200 -> 48:32.960] when they're behind the wheel. One thing I've noticed, just how much more respect I tend to
[48:32.960 -> 48:36.880] have for people that just drive sensibly and responsibly on the road. And if someone has got
[48:36.880 -> 48:40.640] bad habits behind the wheel, you look at them and think, you don't care about me because you're
[48:40.640 -> 48:47.120] driving like this with me in the car. Whereas people who clearly are driving sensibly because they're looking after themselves and the people
[48:47.120 -> 48:49.920] around them they're the kind of people you want as your friends. True mate we
[48:49.920 -> 48:53.160] just acknowledge it and let them know that we're grateful and we appreciate
[48:53.160 -> 48:57.960] that you're being mindful. Okay so let's focus then on some of these sporting
[48:57.960 -> 49:01.760] stars so first up I'm gonna offer Phil Foden when he got himself into a bit of
[49:01.760 -> 49:06.000] trouble with some female company in Iceland whilst on England duty and it caused him some issues. Compare that now to someone who looks so sort of in yn ymwneud â phobl sy'n ffod yn y ffordd. Pan ddechreuodd eich hun i ddiddorol gyda chwmni ffemil yn Iceland
[49:06.000 -> 49:08.000] yn ymwneud â'r swydd yng Nghymru,
[49:08.000 -> 49:10.000] a'i gael ei gynnwys.
[49:10.000 -> 49:12.000] Yn ystod hyn, yw'r cymhwyster
[49:12.000 -> 49:14.000] yn ymwneud â phobl sy'n
[49:14.000 -> 49:16.000] yn ymwneud â'r peth y mae'n ei wneud ar y pêch.
[49:16.000 -> 49:18.000] Rydyn ni'n teimlo'n fawr i gyd
[49:18.000 -> 49:20.000] i weld Phil dros y 12 mlynedd diwethaf.
[49:20.000 -> 49:22.000] Pan ydych chi'n gweld y gwaith
[49:22.000 -> 49:24.000] sy'n ymwneud â'r gwaith
[49:24.000 -> 49:25.000] sy'n ei wneud, mae'n anodd i'w ddweud bod e ddim yn chwaraewr gwahanol. and I'd argue a better person for that. It's about consistency of good habits.
[49:25.000 -> 49:28.000] Let's talk about some of the really common habits.
[49:28.000 -> 49:31.200] People who drive faster because they know the road,
[49:31.200 -> 49:32.600] so they know the risks.
[49:32.600 -> 49:35.800] That's a classic first red flag for me.
[49:35.800 -> 49:38.800] And I think becoming familiar with anything in the car is a bit dangerous.
[49:38.800 -> 49:44.000] It's these what seem like small errors that actually can be totally catastrophic.
[49:44.000 -> 49:45.520] So I've got another one for you then.
[49:45.520 -> 49:49.040] I'm going to talk about LeBron James because when he first started in his career, you know
[49:49.040 -> 49:52.880] when you've been the best at school and the best at college and it's all about you and
[49:52.880 -> 49:53.880] you're the main man.
[49:53.880 -> 49:55.280] He always used to try and score first.
[49:55.280 -> 49:58.480] That was the big thing rather than bringing in his teammates into the game.
[49:58.480 -> 50:03.360] When he was at the Cavaliers in 2007, they were beaten by the Spurs because he was sort
[50:03.360 -> 50:05.720] of more focused on his own game as he progressed
[50:05.720 -> 50:07.980] He developed a mindset of being team oriented
[50:07.980 -> 50:12.880] It's a very similar story to one where you get in the car and you make a decision to get rid of your phone in
[50:12.880 -> 50:19.120] A sporting context. That's exactly what he did. He made the right decision. So shall I give you one last example Canelo Alvarez?
[50:19.120 -> 50:21.400] I know you're into your boxing remember early in his career
[50:21.400 -> 50:29.420] He was obviously supremely talented and he could punch but he would just be gassed a few rounds in. He then realized the issue was he wasn't focusing on his stamina
[50:29.460 -> 50:35.280] He worked on that and then when he fought Austin Trout, he was able to do the business because he had some stamina
[50:35.320 -> 50:41.120] There's an old saying in the boxing ring that there's nowhere to hide if you've sort of taken shortcuts in your training
[50:41.120 -> 50:44.680] They will be exposed underneath the bright lights for boxing ring
[50:44.680 -> 50:49.240] And I think that's a great way of thinking about some of these bad habits that we can
[50:49.240 -> 50:53.640] get into when it comes to driving. If you've been checking your phone, it slows you down
[50:53.640 -> 50:55.140] by a split second.
[50:55.140 -> 50:58.880] So those people who just take their eyes off the road just for a second to check notifications,
[50:58.880 -> 51:03.200] you've probably travelled 20 or 30 metres. A lot can happen in 20 or 30 metres.
[51:03.200 -> 51:25.080] Exactly. I think it's quite scary sometimes to get that sense of perspective. 20 neu 30 o metr. Mae llawer yn gallu digwydd yn 20 neu 30 o metr. Yn unig, rwy'n credu mai'n eithaf eich gweithio'n ffurfiol i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddodordeb iawn o ran eu gallu o'r ôl y cylch, felly gallant ddweud y rhysgau hynny. Maen nhw'n rhaid i mi ymdrechu.
[51:25.080 -> 51:26.080] Ie, rydych chi'n arbennig, Jake.
[51:26.080 -> 51:27.280] Rwy'n credu bod rhywbeth i'w ddweud
[51:27.280 -> 51:28.560] ar gyfer y cyflwynwyr
[51:28.560 -> 51:29.480] sy'n gweld y cyflwynwyr
[51:29.480 -> 51:30.160] pan ydyn nhw'n drifo.
[51:30.160 -> 51:31.400] Y cyflwynwyr sy'n dewis
[51:31.400 -> 51:32.600] na'u gweld y ffôn.
[51:32.600 -> 51:33.800] Rwy'n credu bod y gwybodaeth cyntaf ar hynny
[51:33.800 -> 51:35.480] yw gweld eich un ar eich un,
[51:35.480 -> 51:36.480] cwrdd eich un allan,
[51:36.480 -> 51:37.280] ymgyrchu eich un allan
[51:37.280 -> 51:38.600] a ymgyrchu eich un allan
[51:38.600 -> 51:39.880] pan yw eich cyflwynwyr yn gwneud rhywbeth
[51:39.880 -> 51:41.800] o'r ddiddordeb o'r cylch o'r cylch o'r car.
[51:41.800 -> 51:42.360] Cyflwynwyr,
[51:42.360 -> 51:43.560] resbegwch cyflwynwyr
[51:43.560 -> 51:44.960] sy'n ddim yn ymdrechu
[51:44.960 -> 51:46.000] pan ydyn nhw'n dweud, mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth, ond mae'n dweud, mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth, ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth,
[51:46.000 -> 51:48.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth,
[51:48.000 -> 51:50.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth,
[51:50.000 -> 51:52.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth,
[51:52.000 -> 51:54.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth,
[51:54.000 -> 51:56.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud â'r cymorth,
[51:56.000 -> 51:58.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud ag y cymorth,
[51:58.000 -> 52:00.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud ag y cymorth,
[52:00.000 -> 52:02.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud ag y cymorth,
[52:02.000 -> 52:04.000] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud ag y cymorth,
[52:04.000 -> 52:05.040] ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud ag y cymorth, ond mae'r cymorth yn ymwneud ag y cymorth, and the psychologist, it was two weeks ago, and I just wanted to check in on our relationship.
[52:05.040 -> 52:08.800] You know, we've been working together for 12 years. It's kind of changed shape over time.
[52:09.360 -> 52:13.920] And we just sat down and, you know, ordered a gourmet kitchen, kept it nice and informal,
[52:13.920 -> 52:18.240] which I do think's, you know, a beautiful place for really shaping people's behavioral change and
[52:18.240 -> 52:24.000] influencing people. And we just talked about stop, start, continue. So I said, okay, Adam,
[52:24.000 -> 52:25.120] in our relationship,
[52:25.120 -> 52:26.080] what do you want to stop?
[52:26.080 -> 52:26.920] What do you want to start?
[52:26.920 -> 52:29.120] And what do you want to continue?
[52:29.120 -> 52:31.280] And then I did the same exercise for him.
[52:31.280 -> 52:33.440] You know, we talked about the Olympics, you know,
[52:33.440 -> 52:35.160] our arena skill set together.
[52:35.160 -> 52:36.320] I said, what do we want to stop?
[52:36.320 -> 52:37.160] What do we want to start?
[52:37.160 -> 52:39.000] And what do we want to continue?
[52:39.000 -> 52:40.800] And it was supposed to be a 45 minute session.
[52:40.800 -> 52:42.320] We were in there for an hour and a half.
[52:42.320 -> 52:44.400] And then what we finished with was like,
[52:44.400 -> 52:49.120] almost like a positive affirmation for one another. Okay, what's our super strengths? So Adam,
[52:49.120 -> 52:55.120] what do you think my super strengths are? And then my task was to basically say to Adam, okay,
[52:55.680 -> 53:00.480] I feel like your super strengths are. Because again, back to your point, Jake, about being a
[53:00.480 -> 53:05.720] dad, really, we forget to come to the forefront with the things that we think are amazing about the people
[53:05.720 -> 53:07.720] that we're with on an intimate level.
[53:07.720 -> 53:10.040] And, you know, me and Adam have worked together for 12 years.
[53:10.040 -> 53:13.160] And so that relationship is, you know, seven hours a day.
[53:13.160 -> 53:16.400] It's got a whole shape of, you know, complexities,
[53:16.400 -> 53:19.640] but we have to make the time to remember
[53:19.640 -> 53:22.680] why it's such a good relationship and why it still works
[53:22.680 -> 53:25.720] and why, and also revisit it and how can we evolve it
[53:25.720 -> 53:27.240] and how can we just keep it in check?
[53:27.240 -> 53:28.760] And I would regularly, you know,
[53:28.760 -> 53:31.160] do different things in different ways for other athletes
[53:31.160 -> 53:32.840] about how I check in, how I'm doing for them,
[53:32.840 -> 53:33.720] what do they need.
[53:33.720 -> 53:36.200] But someone, a wise owl told me once as a coach,
[53:36.200 -> 53:39.080] you've got two ears and one mouth for a reason,
[53:39.080 -> 53:40.560] listen twice as much as you talk
[53:40.560 -> 53:41.600] and then you might start to think
[53:41.600 -> 53:42.880] you're being a decent coach.
[53:42.880 -> 53:44.360] So applying that principle then Mel,
[53:44.360 -> 53:46.040] what would you say has been the best piece of
[53:46.040 -> 53:48.400] feedback you've had from one of your athletes?
[53:48.840 -> 53:53.560] Probably Adam actually, just around, he wants the feedback quick.
[53:53.680 -> 53:55.720] He wants it honest and he wants it in a safe environment.
[53:56.000 -> 54:01.160] So he doesn't, you know, I'd said to him in the past, you know, I was, um, I didn't
[54:01.160 -> 54:04.400] know how much, how much honesty he, I was always, I would always be honest with him,
[54:04.400 -> 54:05.400] but how much of what I saw he wanted to hear, um, in terms, and much honesty he, I would always be honest with him, but how much of
[54:05.400 -> 54:10.360] what I saw he wanted to hear in terms, and he was like, I want to hear it.
[54:10.360 -> 54:12.640] Now it changes his mind sometimes because he doesn't.
[54:12.640 -> 54:16.080] That would probably be the most honest, one of the best bits of feedback.
[54:16.080 -> 54:21.680] And also I've had quite a lot of 360 feedback from staff and coaches and athletes.
[54:21.680 -> 54:24.480] What was quite nice about that was I was doing way better than I thought.
[54:24.480 -> 54:28.080] I thought I was, which was lovely because I just thought I actually thought I was much
[54:28.080 -> 54:32.400] worse than this but people think I'm actually all right. So, because again as a leader,
[54:32.400 -> 54:36.880] as a coach, you're the one out front, aren't you? You're often when you're trying to be pioneering
[54:36.880 -> 54:41.600] and the first time of doing anything it's like, God, I'm not, I am, I'm actually not quite sure
[54:42.160 -> 54:47.680] but I've got conviction in my choices and I'm, I think it's a calculated risk and we're going to go for it.
[54:47.680 -> 54:52.680] But you are often getting that trusted feedback from a source that you respect and knows the
[54:52.680 -> 54:53.840] situation well enough.
[54:53.840 -> 54:56.720] I think we get a little bit buzzwordy, don't we, with feedback.
[54:56.720 -> 54:57.720] So I'll just throw a bit.
[54:57.720 -> 55:01.760] It's like, no, you have to have it from the people that are really, really close to you.
[55:01.760 -> 55:05.220] I've got quite a few questions about feedback, if you don't mind, I want to dive into,
[55:05.220 -> 55:06.920] cause I think it'd be so useful for people
[55:06.920 -> 55:08.260] that listen to this podcast to hear.
[55:08.260 -> 55:10.680] So first of all, you said you weren't sure
[55:10.680 -> 55:11.960] how much you wanted to hear.
[55:11.960 -> 55:14.640] Do you start with minimal amounts of feedback
[55:14.640 -> 55:17.040] and build it up and get more honest
[55:17.040 -> 55:18.960] and not necessarily more brutal,
[55:18.960 -> 55:20.400] but more blunt until you think,
[55:20.400 -> 55:21.760] oh, I'm not sure this is working
[55:21.760 -> 55:23.280] and you're watching the athlete's reaction.
[55:23.280 -> 55:24.820] Or do you start from the other direction
[55:24.820 -> 55:27.200] where you give them everything and see how
[55:27.200 -> 55:29.200] they react and maybe start to put it back?
[55:29.200 -> 55:33.880] I think it goes back to my point earlier when I said about people before performance. And
[55:33.880 -> 55:37.960] I think when you're giving that feedback, you've got to know, you know, course, see
[55:37.960 -> 55:43.480] it, say it, but see it, say at the right time with the right understanding of that individual.
[55:43.480 -> 55:45.000] So I've got, you know, nine athletes
[55:45.000 -> 55:48.920] and not one of them would receive feedback in the same way. I've got one particular athlete
[55:48.920 -> 55:54.240] that would be really adverse to receiving feedback. So I think when you give, ultimately
[55:54.240 -> 55:59.000] your overall goal is you want that person, that organization, that culture to grow and
[55:59.000 -> 56:03.280] progress. That's the purpose and intention of your feedback. You have to understand,
[56:03.280 -> 56:08.360] unless you understand the people that are receiving the feedback, your intention might be good, but it may not
[56:08.360 -> 56:14.800] be received that way. So I think the question is to ask the right question first. Okay,
[56:14.800 -> 56:18.400] I've got some pretty critical feedback here. How would you like me to deliver this? Is
[56:18.400 -> 56:23.320] it the right time for you? Is it something you want to grow on? Give them the choice
[56:23.320 -> 56:27.640] to receive it. Then that way, not only are they empowered by receiving it,
[56:27.640 -> 56:29.580] they are empowered by the fact that they made the choice
[56:29.580 -> 56:30.420] to receive it.
[56:30.420 -> 56:31.700] So you get a double win.
[56:31.700 -> 56:34.020] And then the final piece is then,
[56:34.020 -> 56:35.780] because it was their idea to receive it,
[56:35.780 -> 56:37.860] then it's their idea to own it and change it.
[56:37.860 -> 56:41.380] So it's basically, you know, double manipulation really.
[56:41.380 -> 56:42.540] Very smart, very smart.
[56:42.540 -> 56:45.800] So the athlete that doesn't like or won't accept feedback,
[56:45.800 -> 56:48.240] is it not your job as their coach
[56:48.240 -> 56:51.760] to coach them in the important ability to accept feedback?
[56:51.760 -> 56:52.680] Absolutely.
[56:52.680 -> 56:56.400] And, you know, for me, it's also as well,
[56:56.400 -> 56:58.840] I will always go to a point where I will see
[56:58.840 -> 57:01.200] that person's capability to grow.
[57:01.200 -> 57:03.440] So if I think it's going to damage my relationship
[57:03.440 -> 57:11.440] and they're probably just not at that space yet where they can grow in that, that time, um, then I will wait. So to me, again, it's the
[57:11.440 -> 57:16.640] right time, the right time, the right timing, the right type and the right place. And if it's not
[57:16.640 -> 57:20.800] the right time for the feedback for them, it's never going to, all you're going to do is damage
[57:20.800 -> 57:25.440] your relationship. So you have to wait. Timing is massively key. Like I saw things-
[57:25.440 -> 57:26.280] It's hard though, isn't it?
[57:26.280 -> 57:28.240] Cause you just want to give them the feedback
[57:28.240 -> 57:29.720] and improve them as quick as possible.
[57:29.720 -> 57:30.560] Absolutely.
[57:30.560 -> 57:32.240] And we are in a time-based sport.
[57:32.240 -> 57:35.520] You know, we've got, we live from hundreds to hundreds
[57:35.520 -> 57:37.840] and weeks to week and days to days.
[57:37.840 -> 57:40.440] But I think if your intuition gives you the,
[57:40.440 -> 57:43.200] if you know the person well enough, your intuition,
[57:43.200 -> 57:45.920] you know, sometimes I go back,
[57:45.920 -> 57:50.080] it sounds really weird, but sometimes the best thing to do can still be to do nothing
[57:50.080 -> 57:56.320] because your source of feedback is one potential source of growth. Also, them working out on
[57:56.320 -> 58:01.200] their own and that exploratory learning is also a source of growth. And ultimately, you've
[58:01.200 -> 58:05.680] got a risk versus reward. If the risk, and you have to have that
[58:05.680 -> 58:09.680] critical conversation is going to give you a reward, then you need to have that critical
[58:09.680 -> 58:14.240] conversation. If the risk outweighs the reward, that you're going to damage it, and the person's
[58:14.240 -> 58:18.320] going to be destructed afterwards, and the momentum that they'd already made up was going to be lost,
[58:18.880 -> 58:20.880] it's not the right time to give the feedback.
[58:20.880 -> 58:25.360] And the final sort of question on this whole feedback thing is how you give the feedback. And the final sort of question on this whole feedback thing
[58:29.760 -> 58:34.560] is how you give the feedback. What do you do? How do you empower them to come up with the answer? Do you empower them to come up with the answer? Do you just lay it on the line and simply say
[58:34.560 -> 58:38.960] something's not good enough? Again, I go back to the person, like some, like I have like,
[58:38.960 -> 58:43.440] I have nine athletes and one athlete would want, can I have the instructions for what's next and
[58:43.440 -> 58:46.520] a plan and a detailed A, B and C, and I'll just do that.
[58:46.520 -> 58:47.520] I'm happy with that.
[58:47.520 -> 58:52.440] All the people want shared ownership of their journey and they want to be heard and seen
[58:52.440 -> 58:56.800] and included and explore with you and go on the journey together.
[58:56.800 -> 59:02.600] So I guess it's knowing you can have a team goal, but you have to have an individual focus.
[59:02.600 -> 59:05.740] And I think if you have that individual focus and realise that not everybody's
[59:05.740 -> 59:09.480] the same, not everybody's going to get to destination x the same
[59:09.480 -> 59:11.640] way, not everyone's going to get there at the same speed, the
[59:11.640 -> 59:14.920] same time, I think then you start really empowering the
[59:14.920 -> 59:17.520] people that you work with, you know, you do you at the end of
[59:17.520 -> 59:20.040] the day, and it should be the same principle when you give
[59:20.040 -> 59:23.080] feedback, or what's right for that individual person at this
[59:23.080 -> 59:26.960] time, that's going to create the better performance for the overall collective. Brilliant.
[59:26.960 -> 59:31.080] Can I ask you one final question about this? How different is it giving them
[59:31.080 -> 59:34.000] feedback on a technical element like you need to improve your breaststroke
[59:34.000 -> 59:38.200] compared to let's say you're watching a swimmer and you know they've lost their
[59:38.200 -> 59:41.920] motivation or they think they're giving a hundred percent but you actually know
[59:41.920 -> 59:44.920] that there's more. Do you deliver it differently if it's a if it's something
[59:44.920 -> 59:47.000] psychological rather than something physical?
[59:47.000 -> 59:52.240] Absolutely, because the thing is when you give technical feedback you're critiquing
[59:52.240 -> 59:56.520] what they do, when you give character feedback you're critiquing who they are, which is a
[59:56.520 -> 01:00:01.080] much more difficult conversation to have. And so I think that's the chemistry piece,
[01:00:01.080 -> 01:00:07.160] the relationship piece, the relationship and how good that relationship really cements how fluid and how connected
[01:00:07.160 -> 01:00:09.680] that communication, how quickly that can happen.
[01:00:09.680 -> 01:00:11.680] So my message on the feedback thing around
[01:00:11.680 -> 01:00:14.040] when you have to have those critical conversations,
[01:00:14.040 -> 01:00:16.520] it's like the power of your relationship
[01:00:16.520 -> 01:00:20.600] at the first space will determine how much feedback
[01:00:20.600 -> 01:00:22.760] and how quickly that can be coped with
[01:00:22.760 -> 01:00:24.040] under stress and pressure.
[01:00:24.040 -> 01:00:24.880] Brilliant.
[01:00:24.880 -> 01:00:27.520] I think there's a really incredible eich bod chi, Mel,
[01:00:27.520 -> 01:00:30.480] y byddwch chi wedi cymryd rhai o'r plant hwn yn 12 oed
[01:00:30.480 -> 01:00:32.760] ac nawr rydych chi'n deall â bywydau
[01:00:32.760 -> 01:00:35.760] ac mae gennych ni'r gallu i roi'r gysylltiadau eu hunain
[01:00:35.760 -> 01:00:37.120] ar y ffwrdd a'r cefn.
[01:00:37.120 -> 01:00:46.520] A oes gennych chi ddweud ychydig am... oherwydd mae llawer o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r that listen to this, our teachers, is there a difference in terms of engaging a child
[01:00:46.520 -> 01:00:47.360] in many effects,
[01:00:47.360 -> 01:00:50.480] as opposed to dealing with an elite Olympic athlete?
[01:00:50.480 -> 01:00:52.840] There's some similarities and there's some difference.
[01:00:52.840 -> 01:00:55.960] I think for me around parents,
[01:00:55.960 -> 01:00:58.440] I call it the competitive hurdles
[01:00:58.440 -> 01:01:00.720] and loving eyes can never see.
[01:01:00.720 -> 01:01:04.240] So like when you're a parent, I don't know,
[01:01:04.240 -> 01:01:06.880] I've got two dogs and I am crazy about them.
[01:01:06.880 -> 01:01:13.240] But I think there's this, you know, reluctance to let the kids get over the competitive hurdles
[01:01:13.240 -> 01:01:14.640] themselves.
[01:01:14.640 -> 01:01:19.400] And if we remove all of it, so if there's a hundred meters track, right, and there are
[01:01:19.400 -> 01:01:24.040] 20 competitive hurdles, and once they've got over those 20 competitive hurdles, they are
[01:01:24.040 -> 01:01:26.000] going to be more full of people,
[01:01:26.000 -> 01:01:27.640] more determined, more capable,
[01:01:27.640 -> 01:01:29.040] more able to cope with the challenges
[01:01:29.040 -> 01:01:31.280] that are going to come their way in adulthood.
[01:01:31.280 -> 01:01:33.260] Then that's a good route for them to go.
[01:01:33.260 -> 01:01:36.940] If parents, coaches remove those competitive hurdles,
[01:01:36.940 -> 01:01:38.600] when they get to the end, when they get to 18,
[01:01:38.600 -> 01:01:39.760] they won't be able to cope with anything
[01:01:39.760 -> 01:01:42.440] because they thought that it was an easy, smooth road.
[01:01:42.440 -> 01:01:44.440] So my thing to anybody that's working
[01:01:44.440 -> 01:01:47.600] with those development years is put as many
[01:01:47.600 -> 01:01:49.760] competitive hurdles in their way
[01:01:49.760 -> 01:01:52.600] and effectively help them to get over them.
[01:01:52.600 -> 01:01:54.000] But also if they can't,
[01:01:54.000 -> 01:01:56.080] help them understand why they can't.
[01:01:56.080 -> 01:01:57.800] You know, when Adam was in his young years,
[01:01:57.800 -> 01:01:58.760] people thought I was crazy.
[01:01:58.760 -> 01:02:00.480] I took him on a training camp to Zambia.
[01:02:00.480 -> 01:02:01.840] I took him on a bike ride as well,
[01:02:01.840 -> 01:02:04.680] where we cycled 500 kilometers across,
[01:02:04.680 -> 01:02:07.600] basically it was 42 degree heat.
[01:02:07.600 -> 01:02:11.680] And the reason I wanted to take him there was because to me, I wanted to help his character
[01:02:11.680 -> 01:02:14.480] understand, you know, life isn't easy.
[01:02:14.480 -> 01:02:15.480] It's not a bed of roses.
[01:02:15.480 -> 01:02:16.480] It is difficult.
[01:02:16.480 -> 01:02:17.480] It is challenging.
[01:02:17.480 -> 01:02:18.480] There will be good days.
[01:02:18.480 -> 01:02:19.820] There will be bad days.
[01:02:19.820 -> 01:02:21.920] People that you know and love will pass away.
[01:02:21.920 -> 01:02:22.920] There will be divorces.
[01:02:22.920 -> 01:02:25.840] There will be all those things. And sports, the same thing. There will be away. There will be divorces, there will be all those things.
[01:02:25.840 -> 01:02:30.000] And sports, the same thing. There will be wins, there will be losses. And it's just
[01:02:30.000 -> 01:02:33.280] about how you triumph through all of those and accept that that is the journey that you're
[01:02:33.280 -> 01:02:40.920] on. And I just think that less is more like them. I do think now, unfortunately, you know,
[01:02:40.920 -> 01:02:50.680] I use an example, my friend's 23 year old son, he went to a job interview the other day with 1,400 other people for a 25 grand a year job. He came from a school that basically
[01:02:50.680 -> 01:02:55.680] gave him participation medals when he was younger. So he thinks that, well, I participated,
[01:02:55.680 -> 01:03:00.080] I should get something for this. We're setting him up to fail because that's not how the
[01:03:00.080 -> 01:03:06.000] world works when you get past the age of 18. And I just think now we're so want to helicopter them
[01:03:06.000 -> 01:03:11.200] out of all the challenges. It's like, no, we have to let them learn and grow from each challenge
[01:03:11.200 -> 01:03:15.360] and just be there to support them through those challenges, not remove the challenges.
[01:03:15.360 -> 01:03:20.400] So there's some brilliant parallels there with say, reading about what Bob Bowman did when he
[01:03:20.400 -> 01:03:25.280] developed Michael Phelps' character. Sor stori o'i gilydd yn ymdrech i'w gogliau'n gyffredin
[01:03:25.280 -> 01:03:26.400] cyn y cerddor,
[01:03:26.400 -> 01:03:29.040] i weld sut y gallwch chi ymdrech ag y cyfrifoldeb
[01:03:29.040 -> 01:03:31.040] o'u bod yn cael swin whan nhw,
[01:03:31.040 -> 01:03:32.960] neu, wyt ti'n gwybod, yn ddiogelu'r llwybrau,
[01:03:32.960 -> 01:03:34.640] neu'n rhoi ychydig o flwyddyn iddo.
[01:03:34.640 -> 01:03:36.480] Yn ymdrech i'r ffyrdd o'i gilydd,
[01:03:36.480 -> 01:03:37.760] efallai y byddwch yn ymddangos yn ddiddorol,
[01:03:37.760 -> 01:03:39.120] neu'n gofyn beth y byddwch chi'n ei wneud,
[01:03:39.120 -> 01:03:40.240] ac rydych chi wedi'i ddweud pam.
[01:03:40.800 -> 01:03:42.640] A oes gennych chi wedi gwneud rhywbeth fel hyn
[01:03:42.640 -> 01:03:43.920] gyda Adam i ddatblygu
[01:03:43.920 -> 01:03:46.080] ei ddynion cymharol a'i gallu ymdrech ag y cyfrifoldeb? why. Have you ever done anything like that with Adam to develop his competitive instincts and
[01:03:46.080 -> 01:03:50.960] his ability to deal with adversity? Yeah, 100% all the time. That's everything we do.
[01:03:50.960 -> 01:03:54.240] And I think it was Richard Dennett that said about it, wasn't it? It goes in terms of how
[01:03:54.240 -> 01:03:59.280] do you simulate what's required in your practice and do it at a higher level so that when you,
[01:03:59.280 -> 01:04:03.280] you know, come under pressure, you just revert to type. And albeit it's not the same as the
[01:04:03.280 -> 01:04:10.560] military for sure, but that's everything that we do. I would over-prepare Adam so that he would be... the race itself would be
[01:04:10.560 -> 01:04:15.920] easy. And if you listen to him talk now, I mean, he talks about it's just two lengths of the baths,
[01:04:15.920 -> 01:04:22.000] but I can't remember who said it, but it takes a genius to work out to make it that simple in the
[01:04:22.000 -> 01:04:25.440] end. But everything, I've done so many things with him,
[01:04:25.440 -> 01:04:28.480] like, okay, when I took him to Zambia on a training camp,
[01:04:28.480 -> 01:04:31.100] you know, when I went to Zambia in the October
[01:04:31.100 -> 01:04:35.260] in this OYDC place, the water in the 50 meter pool was blue.
[01:04:35.260 -> 01:04:37.020] When I went in January, it was green
[01:04:37.020 -> 01:04:40.100] and it did have no visibility at the bottom.
[01:04:40.100 -> 01:04:42.980] And they did say that it would open at eight o'clock
[01:04:42.980 -> 01:04:44.900] and it didn't open till 1030.
[01:04:44.900 -> 01:04:48.720] So we had to climb over the gates every day. They did say there would be breakfast at eight and there
[01:04:48.720 -> 01:04:53.680] was not breakfast ever and they did say there would be cutlery and you would get a fork for
[01:04:53.680 -> 01:04:59.120] your cereal. And the purpose when I took those 12 kids to that camp was because I wanted them to cope
[01:04:59.120 -> 01:05:04.960] with, you know, it's unpredictable but you can either react to it or you could deal with it.
[01:05:04.960 -> 01:05:05.100] And what I left there with, I left there with 12 soldiers really in some ways, 12 life soldiers that know, it's unpredictable, but you can either react to it or you can deal with it.
[01:05:08.880 -> 01:05:12.340] And what I left there with, I left there with 12 soldiers, really, in some ways, 12 life soldiers that were not going to react to what came their way.
[01:05:12.340 -> 01:05:15.280] They're just going to deal with it and just, you know, not make a mountain out of a
[01:05:15.280 -> 01:05:15.800] molehill.
[01:05:16.320 -> 01:05:20.780] And then fast forward three years when Adam went to the Rio Olympics, he had all of his
[01:05:20.780 -> 01:05:21.400] kit stolen.
[01:05:21.400 -> 01:05:23.020] His technical kit is everything.
[01:05:23.360 -> 01:05:24.400] And we had 48 hours.
[01:05:24.400 -> 01:05:27.440] Now I was running around like a blue ass, you know, whatever, trying to find all the
[01:05:27.440 -> 01:05:28.440] technical kit.
[01:05:28.440 -> 01:05:32.440] But he was still in the t-shirt that he'd traveled in three days afterwards with a rash
[01:05:32.440 -> 01:05:33.440] on his armpit.
[01:05:33.440 -> 01:05:37.400] But he'd almost, he'd got this mantra and developed this mindset through a series of
[01:05:37.400 -> 01:05:38.720] challenges that we'd set him.
[01:05:38.720 -> 01:05:43.760] But he was just like, if I have to swim in this dirty t-shirt with a rash on my armpit,
[01:05:43.760 -> 01:05:53.320] so be it. And it's, to me, I've always said, it's about if somebody says the Olympics is now going to be in a shark-infested pool with lame ropes,
[01:05:53.320 -> 01:05:58.000] you've got to have the mindset and the character go, I'll be in there first, see you in there.
[01:05:58.000 -> 01:06:02.920] And that's, to me, you do that, you know, I just think you train people's character.
[01:06:02.920 -> 01:06:05.160] You train their technicality, you train their character,
[01:06:05.160 -> 01:06:07.120] you train their physicality,
[01:06:07.120 -> 01:06:12.120] but to me, how you can positively push and challenge
[01:06:12.520 -> 01:06:16.560] somebody in innovative ways and take them to new heights,
[01:06:16.560 -> 01:06:18.320] that to me is the beauty of coaching.
[01:06:18.320 -> 01:06:21.000] Mel, what a brilliant, brilliant episode.
[01:06:21.000 -> 01:06:23.160] We're about to move on to our quickfire questions,
[01:06:23.160 -> 01:06:25.120] but before we do that, the final question for you,
[01:06:25.120 -> 01:06:26.640] and this is an interesting one
[01:06:26.640 -> 01:06:28.480] because we normally ask this to the athlete,
[01:06:28.480 -> 01:06:31.700] but having a coach on, we can't not ask you the question.
[01:06:31.700 -> 01:06:35.200] With your athletes, when they're competing,
[01:06:35.200 -> 01:06:37.240] what percentage is their success
[01:06:37.240 -> 01:06:39.560] down to their mental approach
[01:06:39.560 -> 01:06:42.320] and what percent is down to the physical side?
[01:06:42.320 -> 01:06:44.120] I think it's a balance of both, Jake.
[01:06:44.120 -> 01:06:47.480] I think that you can't do one without the other.
[01:06:47.480 -> 01:06:51.320] But I think in terms of reaching your full potential,
[01:06:51.320 -> 01:06:55.280] your full physical potential is down to your ability
[01:06:55.280 -> 01:06:56.280] to believe in yourself,
[01:06:56.280 -> 01:06:57.700] your ability to perform under pressure
[01:06:57.700 -> 01:06:59.560] without perceiving stress,
[01:06:59.560 -> 01:07:04.440] and your ability to bring the best version of yourself
[01:07:04.440 -> 01:07:06.920] to the most difficult situation and deliver.
[01:07:06.920 -> 01:07:09.000] Great, right, quick fire questions.
[01:07:09.000 -> 01:07:11.920] Three non-negotiable behaviors that you
[01:07:11.920 -> 01:07:14.240] and all the people around you have to buy into.
[01:07:14.240 -> 01:07:17.120] Effort, fun, and reality.
[01:07:17.120 -> 01:07:18.640] Fun, that's a rare one.
[01:07:18.640 -> 01:07:19.720] I'm pleased it's in there.
[01:07:19.720 -> 01:07:21.600] What advice would you give to a teenage male
[01:07:21.600 -> 01:07:22.560] just starting out?
[01:07:22.560 -> 01:07:24.480] Do it all again, exactly the same way.
[01:07:24.480 -> 01:07:29.840] If you could recommend one book for our listeners and our viewers to get their heads into,
[01:07:30.400 -> 01:07:35.840] what book would you recommend? Oh, it's called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F***. Yeah,
[01:07:35.840 -> 01:07:39.360] it's excellent. It's really, really good. What's your greatest strength and what's
[01:07:39.360 -> 01:07:45.800] your greatest weakness? Greatest strength I think is innovative creativity.
[01:07:45.800 -> 01:07:52.240] Greatest weakness is finding the ability to believe in myself when others challenge me.
[01:07:52.240 -> 01:07:53.240] Are you happy?
[01:07:53.240 -> 01:07:54.240] 100%.
[01:07:54.240 -> 01:07:59.240] And finally, what's your one golden rule for living a high performance life?
[01:07:59.240 -> 01:08:01.000] Life is what you give it.
[01:08:01.000 -> 01:08:02.000] Brilliant.
[01:08:02.000 -> 01:08:04.440] Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
[01:08:04.440 -> 01:08:08.160] We always have these conversations away from the podcast, me and David, about which is your favourite episode
[01:08:08.160 -> 01:08:11.680] and we normally come up with about 20, but I think we might have just... You're number
[01:08:11.680 -> 01:08:16.240] one. I think we might have just recorded the one that is top of the list. Mel, man, thank
[01:08:16.240 -> 01:08:21.440] you so much. Do you know what? We often say that the beauty of this podcast is that we
[01:08:21.440 -> 01:08:25.080] speak to someone like you, you're a swimming coach,
[01:08:25.080 -> 01:08:26.440] but we haven't even mentioned swimming,
[01:08:26.440 -> 01:08:27.760] which shows that you're so much more
[01:08:27.760 -> 01:08:29.360] than just a swimming coach in the same way
[01:08:29.360 -> 01:08:30.920] that your athletes are not just swimmers
[01:08:30.920 -> 01:08:32.880] and the business people are not just business people.
[01:08:32.880 -> 01:08:34.880] You know, we're all, we're basically all people
[01:08:34.880 -> 01:08:36.000] and we're all learning things
[01:08:36.000 -> 01:08:37.760] that can all be applied to everyone else's lives.
[01:08:37.760 -> 01:08:41.540] And I promise you there will be tens,
[01:08:41.540 -> 01:08:43.600] if not hundreds of thousands of people
[01:08:43.600 -> 01:08:45.000] that will listen to this episode
[01:08:45.000 -> 01:08:47.000] and take away stuff that will improve their lives.
[01:08:47.000 -> 01:08:52.500] So honestly, thank you for being so honest, so vulnerable, so open.
[01:08:52.500 -> 01:08:53.200] It's brilliant.
[01:08:53.200 -> 01:08:53.600] Thank you.
[01:08:53.600 -> 01:08:55.300] And if you are, when you have P.E. on, say,
[01:08:55.300 -> 01:08:57.000] mine's the best ever, see if you can match that.
[01:08:57.000 -> 01:08:58.800] Right, let's see.
[01:08:58.800 -> 01:08:59.200] Let's see.
[01:08:59.200 -> 01:09:04.100] In fact, we were exchanging a couple of comments over WhatsApp while you were talking
[01:09:04.100 -> 01:09:06.040] and we've decided that you've won yourself
[01:09:06.040 -> 01:09:07.520] a high-performance podcast mug
[01:09:07.520 -> 01:09:09.460] because you've listened to every episode as well.
[01:09:09.460 -> 01:09:10.300] How about that?
[01:09:10.300 -> 01:09:11.920] Great, and just for you, Jake,
[01:09:11.920 -> 01:09:13.940] I heard what you'd said in terms of,
[01:09:13.940 -> 01:09:16.540] on one of your podcasts around championing,
[01:09:17.680 -> 01:09:18.600] like women's sport,
[01:09:18.600 -> 01:09:20.800] and in terms of, like you had said about Alex Scott,
[01:09:20.800 -> 01:09:23.200] and you come from television where you got gunged
[01:09:23.200 -> 01:09:24.360] and she'd been in part of the game.
[01:09:24.360 -> 01:09:26.660] I just want to thank you for representing that angle.
[01:09:26.660 -> 01:09:27.920] It's really powerful.
[01:09:27.920 -> 01:09:28.760] So thank you.
[01:09:28.760 -> 01:09:30.200] It's my pleasure.
[01:09:30.200 -> 01:09:31.360] I'm a firm believer.
[01:09:31.360 -> 01:09:32.720] And it probably came to me a bit late, really,
[01:09:32.720 -> 01:09:35.560] that being an ally for people, you know,
[01:09:35.560 -> 01:09:36.680] I can't be a woman, can I?
[01:09:36.680 -> 01:09:38.240] But I can be an ally for women everywhere.
[01:09:38.240 -> 01:09:40.400] So I think we should all be an ally for each other.
[01:09:40.400 -> 01:09:41.800] So thanks very much for saying that.
[01:09:41.800 -> 01:09:43.920] That's very kind of you.
[01:09:43.920 -> 01:09:46.360] And Damien, always a ledge, absolutely.
[01:09:46.360 -> 01:09:47.200] Thanks, Mel.
[01:09:47.200 -> 01:09:49.600] The world will know your genius.
[01:09:50.800 -> 01:09:52.400] Thanks, appreciate the platform.
[01:09:54.440 -> 01:09:55.280] Damien.
[01:09:55.280 -> 01:09:56.200] Chegg.
[01:09:56.200 -> 01:09:59.000] Whoever the lucky, how many athletes did she say
[01:09:59.000 -> 01:09:59.840] she's working with?
[01:09:59.840 -> 01:10:00.680] Nine?
[01:10:00.680 -> 01:10:01.500] She's nine now, yeah.
[01:10:01.500 -> 01:10:04.040] Those nine, I mean, they must be among the luckiest
[01:10:04.040 -> 01:10:07.000] athletes in the world because she seems so sort of
[01:10:07.000 -> 01:10:11.060] plugged in emotionally, but you can't then question
[01:10:11.060 -> 01:10:14.080] that she's so clear in the way that she emotionally
[01:10:14.080 -> 01:10:15.800] assesses the situations that she's in,
[01:10:15.800 -> 01:10:18.120] that that takes away from the successes in the pool.
[01:10:18.120 -> 01:10:21.100] Cause it doesn't like, she's literally got that approach
[01:10:21.100 -> 01:10:24.080] to the best athlete in the swim pool on the planet.
[01:10:24.080 -> 01:10:28.000] And I want every sports coach, every CEO, every teacher, every parent to listen to that and realise that Mae'r ymdrech hwnnw i'r gynhyrchion fwyaf o athletau yn y swin ymdrechion ar y byd. Rwy'n eisiau i bob ysgol, bob cyfanswm, bob ddarlithydd, bob myfyrwyr, bob rhain o'r rhai
[01:10:28.000 -> 01:10:35.000] i ddweud y bydd y cwmni yn ymwneud â'r bobl sydd o'ch gwmpas.
[01:10:35.000 -> 01:10:37.000] Edrychwch ar y cyfanswm y mae wedi'i gael.
[01:10:37.000 -> 01:10:41.000] Rwy'n credu bod pwynt pwysig iawn i ddod o'r ôl i'r hyn a dweud oedd Mel yn ei ddweud yno,
[01:10:41.000 -> 01:10:48.520] yw bod yn gwneud hyn yn y pwll clwb, nid oedd yn ei wneud gyda llwybrau mawr, neu gweithgareddau da,
[01:10:48.520 -> 01:10:51.800] neu gysylltiad â'r holl gynnyrch.
[01:10:51.800 -> 01:10:56.000] Roedd hwn yn rhywun sy'n ei wneud hwn yn y cymdeithas clwb ym Mhoblwg,
[01:10:56.000 -> 01:11:00.040] lle, yn unig fel y dywedwch, mae'r gallu i'w plwgio, i'w cysylltu,
[01:11:00.040 -> 01:11:01.960] i weld y person yn gyntaf,
[01:11:01.960 -> 01:11:03.640] a wnaeth hi fod yn ddifrifol o ddifrifol.
[01:11:03.640 -> 01:11:07.600] Mae hi nawr yn gweithio ar y lefel lefel gwledig gyda'r swyddi olympiad
[01:11:07.600 -> 01:11:14.480] rydyn ni'n ei arwain i Tokyo. Ond mae'r pwynt clus yw bod y pethau y mae hi'n ysgrifennu yn
[01:11:14.480 -> 01:11:17.280] ymwneud â phob un o ni, ac nid y mae'n rhaid i ni gael penni.
[01:11:17.760 -> 01:11:22.240] Wel, nid ydyn nhw, oherwydd mae hi wedi rhoi ychydig i'n clywyr a gwylwyr, nid yw hi'n
[01:11:22.240 -> 01:11:25.740] ymwneud â hynny? Rwy'n credu y there? I think the biggest thing for me, really Damien,
[01:11:27.020 -> 01:11:28.760] maybe because I'm a parent of two young kids,
[01:11:28.760 -> 01:11:29.760] I always come back to this,
[01:11:29.760 -> 01:11:33.280] is this importance of building resilience in people.
[01:11:33.280 -> 01:11:34.480] And I think sometimes we think,
[01:11:34.480 -> 01:11:35.940] oh yeah, when we've got a seven or eight year old,
[01:11:35.940 -> 01:11:37.600] we have to build resilience.
[01:11:37.600 -> 01:11:40.200] But then when someone's 17 years old,
[01:11:40.200 -> 01:11:42.000] oh, there's no point doing that anymore.
[01:11:42.000 -> 01:11:43.440] But she talks about taking Adam,
[01:11:43.440 -> 01:11:49.520] who at that point was an elite athlete, competing on the biggest stage in the world. oedd y gallai ddim ymwneud â hynny ymlaen, ond mae hi'n siarad am adael Adam, sydd ar y pwynt hwnnw oedd ymdrechion ymdrechion yn y stage mwyaf y byd, ac efallai y byddwn i ar y pwynt honno
[01:11:49.520 -> 01:11:54.480] yn angen ymdrechion drwy'i ddod i'w pwll anodd mewn gwlad anodd lle mae'n anodd i'w gweithio.
[01:11:55.280 -> 01:11:59.680] Mae'n golygu fawr y gallwn i gyd, yma'n aml, edrych i seilio ar ymdrechion
[01:11:59.680 -> 01:12:04.400] mewn sylwadau positif, o ran y bobl o'r oed, neu'r rôl y maen nhw'n chwarae yn ein bywydau.
[01:12:04.960 -> 01:12:30.400] Ie, rhoi pobl, fel y dweud, ymgyrchion cyfnod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystdd y person sy'n ei leo arnynt a'i helpu a'i hyrwyddo a'i hyrwyddo i ddod o'r broblemau hynny yn hytrach na'u rhoi a'u rhoi'r cyfle
[01:12:30.400 -> 01:12:32.000] ar gyfer dysgu gwirioneddol.
[01:12:32.000 -> 01:12:34.000] A dwi'n hoffi'r comment y gwnes i eich gwneud hefyd am y pyramidau,
[01:12:34.000 -> 01:12:36.000] y gwnes i ddweud y byddent wedi'u gynnal y pethau hynny yn y bôn,
[01:12:36.000 -> 01:12:38.000] yn y bôn, gyda'r llawysgrif, y pwysigrwydd,
[01:12:38.000 -> 01:12:40.000] y bagiau o ffyrdd a llawysgrifau.
[01:12:40.000 -> 01:12:42.000] Doedd dim gwrthdysg yn ymwneud â phapur o lawr i hynny.
[01:12:42.000 -> 01:12:44.000] Roedd y cwrs yn ymwneud â bod yn unigol,
[01:12:44.000 -> 01:12:45.520] fel y gwnaethom clywed ychydig o weithiau ar y podcast hon.
[01:12:45.520 -> 01:12:47.360] Ie, mae yna un o'r cynghorwyr athletig,
[01:12:47.360 -> 01:12:50.400] a dwi wedi edrych ar y ffyrdd o'r fyn yw Vern Gambetta.
[01:12:50.400 -> 01:12:52.040] Rydw i wedi clywed iddo ddweud am hwn, Jake,
[01:12:52.040 -> 01:12:56.080] lle dweud, rydym yn cael ymgyrchu yn y diwygiad hwn o edrych ar gyfer cyfrifau cyflawni,
[01:12:56.080 -> 01:13:05.000] y 1%, lle dweud, y reoli yw, ddweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud ac maent i gyd yn ddifrifolion gwych, ond yn yn y pen draw
[01:13:05.000 -> 01:13:10.000] mae'n ymwneud â mynd allan yno a gwneud y gwaith a chysylltu a rhoi'r person yn
[01:13:10.000 -> 01:13:12.000] ymdrechion.
[01:13:12.000 -> 01:13:15.000] A dwi'n hoffi ei energia oherwydd gallwch chi ddweud o'r gwrthnos honno
[01:13:15.000 -> 01:13:19.000] rydyn ni wedi'i gwrthdro gyda ni fod yn gweithio'n ffwrdd o ffwrdd i gyd.
[01:13:19.000 -> 01:13:23.000] Yn y pen draw, mae'n rhaid i chi ddweud, mae'n rhaid i chi ddweud, mae'n rhaid i chi ddweud,
[01:13:23.000 -> 01:13:27.000] mae'n rhaid i chi ddweud, mae'n rhaid i chi ddweud, mae'nwy'n cerdded ei energia, oherwydd gallwch ddweud o'r gwrthnos
[01:13:27.000 -> 01:13:31.000] rydyn ni wedi'i gwrthdwro gyda ni, fod e'n gweithio'n ffwrdd o ffwrdd yn ei bywyd,
[01:13:31.000 -> 01:13:35.000] ond mae'r cofnod ar hynny'n golygu nad yw e'n cael ei anoddu,
[01:13:35.000 -> 01:13:37.000] mae e'n cael ei hymdrechu, rwy'n credu.
[01:13:37.000 -> 01:13:40.000] Y pwrpas hwnnw, y pwrpas anhygoel, eto, gofyn y cwestiwn hwnnw,
[01:13:40.000 -> 01:13:43.000] ac yna ddod â'r cyflwr glir,
[01:13:43.000 -> 01:13:48.720] mae'n teimlo i chi allu ysgrifennu ar y morninau pan fyddwch chi'n hoffi i chi ddod i mewn ac ymdrechu'n hawdd.
[01:13:48.720 -> 01:13:50.160] Mae'n dweud, dyniwch i'r genius i'r llyfr.
[01:13:50.160 -> 01:13:51.560] Ddewch i'r nofis.
[01:13:51.560 -> 01:13:54.160] Dw i'n mynd i'w gofyn bob mhrif.
[01:13:54.160 -> 01:13:55.040] Oh, roedd hi'n ddifrifol.
[01:13:55.040 -> 01:13:56.400] Mel, diolch i chi am ddod i mewn
[01:13:56.400 -> 01:13:57.240] ac rannu hynny gyda ni.
[01:13:57.240 -> 01:13:58.080] Diolch yn fawr, Damien.
[01:13:58.080 -> 01:13:58.920] Diolch, Jake.
[01:14:03.720 -> 01:14:06.760] Dymu, un o'r pethau gwirioneddol ystod y flwyddyn yw gweld y niferof y bobl sydd wedi dod i ni You know what Damien, one of the really nice things this week has been seeing the amount
[01:14:06.760 -> 01:14:10.520] of people that have come to us talking about the Kate Richardson Walsh episode.
[01:14:10.520 -> 01:14:13.680] If you're listening to this and you haven't heard it, just go and find it.
[01:14:13.680 -> 01:14:17.040] It was released last Wednesday as one of our Olympic specials.
[01:14:17.040 -> 01:14:21.720] There was a lovely message actually from Tom saying, what was really nice was for me to
[01:14:21.720 -> 01:14:29.240] play bits of this to my eight year old daughter who is so excited about the Olympics and tell her this person has a gold medal and is from
[01:14:29.240 -> 01:14:31.880] exactly the same place that we are from.
[01:14:31.880 -> 01:14:35.600] Her exact words were, so I can get a gold medal too.
[01:14:35.600 -> 01:14:40.140] And look, we love, you know, when CEOs and business leaders and teachers and stuff reach
[01:14:40.140 -> 01:14:44.320] out to us, but the fact that this gentleman's eight-year-old daughter is listening to this
[01:14:44.320 -> 01:14:49.520] podcast, hearing the great words of Kate, and then being reminded that she can also i ddweud hynny, ond y ffaith bod y dyn yma, ei dau oed, yn clywed y podcast hon, yn clywed y sain gwych o Kate ac yna yn cael y cyfaddef y gall hi hefyd wneud pethau ddiddorol
[01:14:49.520 -> 01:14:51.280] mae'n ddiddorol, dydd?
[01:14:51.280 -> 01:14:55.920] Mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ymdrechion y cyfrifiad o hynny, os ydych chi'n gweld y gwaith, gallwch fod yn y gwaith.
[01:14:55.920 -> 01:14:59.520] Rydyn ni'n gwneud ein hysbysebion a'n rhan o'n mhwyaf
[01:14:59.520 -> 01:15:03.520] teimlo'n mwy o'n ddiddorol os ydych chi'n gallu clywed stori eich hun.
[01:15:03.520 -> 01:15:09.200] Pan ddweud y gwaith o Kate o fod yn y dyn y byddai'n ymddangos ymlaen yn y parc, yn drinio ar y ffrid, ar hyn o bryd,
[01:15:09.200 -> 01:15:13.840] nes ei ddecidio i'w gynhyrchu ac yn cydweithio ar ei gwaith. Rwy'n credu y gallwn ni
[01:15:13.840 -> 01:15:18.320] i gyd ymddygiadu gyda hynny, felly, no, mae hynny'n anhygoel, rwy'n hoffi hynny, rwy'n hoffi'r adroddiad honno.
[01:15:18.320 -> 01:15:21.680] Rydych chi'n iawn, Damien, rydych chi'n iawn, ac rwy'n credu y peth ddiddorol eraill yma yw,
[01:15:22.240 -> 01:15:26.320] ar adroddiad Tom, mae ei dau wedi his daughter says, so I can get a gold medal too.
[01:15:26.320 -> 01:15:28.360] I think there's probably something worth reminding people here
[01:15:28.360 -> 01:15:30.640] that it's not just about the gold medal.
[01:15:30.640 -> 01:15:33.760] It's about living a life that makes you feel fulfilled.
[01:15:33.760 -> 01:15:35.440] And actually, if people are listening to this
[01:15:35.440 -> 01:15:37.760] and they're wondering how they can have that conversation
[01:15:37.760 -> 01:15:41.080] with their kids about achieving stuff,
[01:15:41.080 -> 01:15:44.360] but it not being about only winning the gold medal,
[01:15:44.360 -> 01:15:46.600] have a look at our members club, the High Performance Circle,
[01:15:46.600 -> 01:15:48.400] because there was a great talk on there, wasn't there, Damien,
[01:15:48.400 -> 01:15:50.200] from Cath Bishop, who's a former rower,
[01:15:50.600 -> 01:15:53.700] and she talks really emotionally about as she crossed the line
[01:15:53.700 -> 01:15:55.200] in the Olympics and the commentator said,
[01:15:55.200 -> 01:15:57.700] oh, it's only silver for Great Britain.
[01:15:58.100 -> 01:16:01.500] And she felt like that moment gave the message that it was a failure
[01:16:01.500 -> 01:16:04.600] and we perhaps need to redefine our thinking that,
[01:16:04.900 -> 01:16:06.240] you know, Kate Richardson-Walsh isn't only on this podcast because of her gold medal. a rydyn ni'n eithaf bwysig i'r cyfrifiad. Iawn, yn amlwg. Ac yno, Cath, sy'n siarad yn dda ar y cyfeiriau,
[01:16:06.240 -> 01:16:07.960] hefyd, wrth gwrs, wrthodd y llyfr ffantastig,
[01:16:07.960 -> 01:16:09.160] ym Mhro Llongwyn,
[01:16:09.160 -> 01:16:10.280] sy'n ymwneud â hynny.
[01:16:10.280 -> 01:16:11.720] Mae'n ymwneud â'r ffordd,
[01:16:11.720 -> 01:16:13.400] nid ymwneud â'r arddangosfa.
[01:16:13.400 -> 01:16:14.560] Er enghraifft,
[01:16:14.560 -> 01:16:15.920] bob un o'n gwestiynau
[01:16:15.920 -> 01:16:17.440] ynglyn â'r hyn sydd wedi'u dysgu
[01:16:17.440 -> 01:16:18.480] yn y cyfnod hwnnw,
[01:16:18.480 -> 01:16:19.680] mae'n ymwneud â'r ffyrdd,
[01:16:19.680 -> 01:16:21.000] nid ymwneud â'r arddangosfa.
[01:16:21.000 -> 01:16:22.240] Ac mae'n ymwneud â'r ffyrdd,
[01:16:22.240 -> 01:16:23.480] nid ymwneud â'r ffyrdd,
[01:16:23.480 -> 01:16:24.880] ond mae'n ymwneud â'r ffyrdd.
[01:16:24.880 -> 01:16:29.280] Ac mae'n ymwneud â'r ffyrdd, ond mae'n ymwneud â'r ffyrdd, ond mae'n ymwneud â'r ff ymlaen, mae'n ymwneud â'r ffordd, nid y dyfodol, er mwyn, eto, mae pob un o'n gwestiynau yn ymwneud â'r hyn
[01:16:29.280 -> 01:16:33.840] y maen nhw wedi'i ddysgu yn y broses o ddod o hyd i'w ddreimau, mae wedi bod yn
[01:16:33.840 -> 01:16:36.720] mwy bwysig na'r hyn y maen nhw wedi'i gael ar y diwedd.
[01:16:36.720 -> 01:16:39.760] Mae'n dda o'r adroddiadau hefyd yma o'r wythnos o Callum Blades, helo Callum,
[01:16:39.760 -> 01:16:42.320] mae'n dweud bod y podcastau'n amlwg ac mae'n rhedeg i mi drwy rai amserau
[01:16:42.320 -> 01:16:45.500] anodd iawn gyda'r cydymdeithas. Dyna'n bwynt da, mewn gwirionedd, reassurance. That is a good point, actually. They are timeless.
[01:16:45.500 -> 01:16:50.000] So go back and listen to any of the previous episodes or the previous conversations because
[01:16:50.000 -> 01:16:51.800] they are, they are timeless.
[01:16:51.800 -> 01:16:53.200] You can listen to them at any time.
[01:16:53.500 -> 01:16:57.300] Callum also describes this podcast as the best of humanity as well.
[01:16:57.300 -> 01:16:59.000] And there's a really nice quote as well.
[01:16:59.000 -> 01:17:02.500] This is from Selena and Jonathan Viner on Instagram.
[01:17:02.500 -> 01:17:05.640] Their user handle is our big Swedish adventure.
[01:17:05.640 -> 01:17:09.080] So I guess they're doing something exciting somewhere.
[01:17:09.080 -> 01:17:12.920] He says, the conversations inspired by listening
[01:17:12.920 -> 01:17:16.080] to your podcast have really helped us
[01:17:16.080 -> 01:17:18.320] when we've had extended periods away from each other.
[01:17:18.320 -> 01:17:21.520] I always find nuggets of wisdom to re-engage me in my job,
[01:17:21.520 -> 01:17:23.480] brackets, assistant head at a school
[01:17:23.480 -> 01:17:25.600] set up from scratch last year. Kate's reflections on leadership and her honest accounts yn fy swydd, ymgyrchwyd yn ysgol, a'i sefydlu o'r gwirion ym mis hir.
[01:17:29.600 -> 01:17:34.880] Ymdrechion Cate ar y llywodraeth a'r cyfrifiadau ddifrifol o'r heriau o'r clywed a'r gweithio ar y cyfrodd, a'r meddwl am ysteroedigaeth a'r dealltaeth gyn-dynol.
[01:17:34.880 -> 01:17:40.640] Dydw i ddim yn gobeithio i chi i gyd i greu'r oasis o ysbrydol a'r energia pwysig,
[01:17:40.640 -> 01:17:43.680] diolch i'r tîm cyffredin. Dyna'r ffrasau da, yw'n ymddangos, yw'n ymdrech?
[01:17:43.680 -> 01:17:47.000] Ie, ma'r ffrasau ddifrifol ac y cymorth cyhoeddiadau. Dyna'n ffrasau da, ydy o, ar ôl i? Ie, ffrasau da a phwyaf o gyflogadau.
[01:17:47.000 -> 01:17:50.000] Os ydych chi'n siarad am y pwyllgor o gyflogadau,
[01:17:50.000 -> 01:17:53.000] mae Jonathan wedi rhoi rhai gyflogadau pwysig a ddod o'r flwyddyn
[01:17:53.000 -> 01:17:55.000] a dyna'n ddiolchgar a'n cael eu cael.
[01:17:55.000 -> 01:17:58.000] Mae'n ddiddorol, ydy o, oherwydd,
[01:17:58.000 -> 01:18:00.000] rwy'n credu, yna'r tri pethau a oedd yn dod o'r ffordd
[01:18:00.000 -> 01:18:02.000] i bobl o'r ffasgau o Kate.
[01:18:02.000 -> 01:18:05.000] Roedd ei allu dysgu sut i ddod o'r fflogad a, ar weithiau, cyfrifoldeb. stood out for people from Kate's episode. It was her ability to learn how to take
[01:18:05.000 -> 01:18:11.000] feedback and at times criticism. Certainly her conversations about gender
[01:18:11.000 -> 01:18:17.160] stereotyping and the perception of women in sport was important but also we talk
[01:18:17.160 -> 01:18:19.680] about, don't we, on the podcast about getting to people's hearts not their
[01:18:19.680 -> 01:18:24.480] heads. The fact that she carries, she told us, carries her emotions right just
[01:18:24.480 -> 01:18:27.000] below the surface and they bubble up at any moment. I think that helped people y ffaith bod e'n cyrraedd, fel ddweudodd hwn, ei emociau i'r iaith ar y ffyrdd, ac maen nhw'n byw yn y bob tro.
[01:18:27.000 -> 01:18:30.000] Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n helpu pobl i ddeall beth roedd e'n cynllunio
[01:18:30.000 -> 01:18:33.000] i ddweud ei bod e'n mor emociol ar y peth, a ydych chi'n credu?
[01:18:33.000 -> 01:18:37.000] Ie, roedd yna lawer o ddewisau, ac efallai y gallwch ei medru
[01:18:37.000 -> 01:18:40.000] gan beth y gwnes i'w wneud yn wahanol ar y ddewis hwnnw.
[01:18:40.000 -> 01:18:43.000] Ac rwy'n credu bod y pethau o ran y perthynasau gendur
[01:18:43.000 -> 01:18:48.000] a ddewisodd e, yn sicr,eth fy mod i feddwl am sut rwy'n ymddangos fy mhwyr a fy mywyr
[01:18:48.000 -> 01:18:52.000] a'r ffyrdd o ddiddorol ffyrdd sy'n mynd i'r ffordd rydyn ni'n ei ddod i mewn
[01:18:52.000 -> 01:18:56.000] sy'n gallu bod yn un peth da, y gwybod, yn ystod
[01:18:56.000 -> 01:19:00.000] adroddiadu ffyrdd fel gynhyrchu bwyrau i fod yn ffyrddus.
[01:19:00.000 -> 01:19:04.000] Mae'r math o iaith y sydd wedi siarad amdano yn
[01:19:04.000 -> 01:19:05.520] ddiddorol iawn. that kind of language that Kate spoke about was sort of really thought provoking.
[01:19:05.520 -> 01:19:08.280] And actually that leads me onto the final message
[01:19:08.280 -> 01:19:10.160] I wanted to share on this little wrap up.
[01:19:10.160 -> 01:19:11.900] And it's perfect Damien you spoke about that
[01:19:11.900 -> 01:19:13.720] because Annie McSherry says,
[01:19:13.720 -> 01:19:14.600] hi Jake and Damien,
[01:19:14.600 -> 01:19:16.640] thank you for a really insightful podcast
[01:19:16.640 -> 01:19:18.040] on the High Performance Pub this morning
[01:19:18.040 -> 01:19:20.080] with Kate Richardson-Walsh, I really enjoyed it.
[01:19:20.080 -> 01:19:21.220] It gave me a lot to think about
[01:19:21.220 -> 01:19:23.560] in terms of what values really mean,
[01:19:23.560 -> 01:19:27.720] how to make those more meaningful and also how I address my daughter and my son.
[01:19:28.000 -> 01:19:30.880] I'm really going to check myself to see if I do treat them differently
[01:19:30.960 -> 01:19:34.520] unintentionally and if I do the good girl thing, which I probably do,
[01:19:34.920 -> 01:19:39.920] despite myself talking with colleagues about how growing up we would talk to be
[01:19:40.200 -> 01:19:43.280] polite and nice and boys would talk to be fierce and ambitious and how I really
[01:19:43.280 -> 01:19:46.000] feel the need to fight against politeness sometimes to speak up.
[01:19:46.000 -> 01:20:01.000] Not a manners issue, but just being so polite and as Kate referred to very British about things. Thank you again. That's from Annie McSherry and it's definitely worth thinking about I think anyone with a boy and a girl or even just a girl and just a boy. Think about how you treat them.
[01:20:01.000 -> 01:20:03.000] Thanks a lot Damien, enjoyed that?
[01:20:03.000 -> 01:20:06.000] Yeah, no, as always Jake, rwy'n hoffi'r cwrs. Diolch.
[01:20:06.000 -> 01:20:08.000] Ac hefyd, diolch yn fawr
[01:20:08.000 -> 01:20:10.000] am y ffaith bod chi'n gysylltu â Mel Marshall.
[01:20:10.000 -> 01:20:12.000] Dwi'n gwybod ei bod yn ffrind o'ch hun oddi'r amser o'r blaen
[01:20:12.000 -> 01:20:14.000] ac rwy'n credu byddwn yn cael
[01:20:14.000 -> 01:20:16.000] nifer o'r commentarion yn ychydig o bobl
[01:20:16.000 -> 01:20:18.000] sy'n clywed ymlaen at y fideo hwn, dwi'n credu?
[01:20:18.000 -> 01:20:20.000] Ie, rwy'n gobeithio. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn
[01:20:20.000 -> 01:20:22.000] un person anhygoel ac rwy'n credu
[01:20:22.000 -> 01:20:24.000] ei stori mae cymaint o ddangosfeydd
[01:20:24.000 -> 01:20:26.000] ar gyfer unrhyw un sy'n clywed hwn,
[01:20:26.000 -> 01:20:30.000] sydd, ar ôl gwneud y gwahaniaeth, yn ceisio gwneud cymryd effaith i'w ddod yn dda.
[01:20:30.000 -> 01:20:33.000] Rwy'n credu mai Mel yw'r cyfathrebu perffaith o hynny.
[01:20:33.000 -> 01:20:38.000] Ie, yn unig. Ac fel rydw i wedi dweud ar ddiwedd yr episode Kate Richardson Walsh,
[01:20:38.000 -> 01:20:41.000] os oes rhywbeth sydd wedi'i ymdrechu gyda chi ar ôl clywed hwn,
[01:20:41.000 -> 01:20:42.000] gadewch i ni gysylltu â ni.
[01:20:42.000 -> 01:20:45.420] Gallwch ddod o hyd i Damien at liquidthinker, ping him a message on Instagram.
[01:20:45.420 -> 01:20:46.540] I'm at jakehumphrey,
[01:20:46.540 -> 01:20:49.140] you can find the podcast at highperformance.
[01:20:49.140 -> 01:20:50.940] You can also watch all of these interviews
[01:20:50.940 -> 01:20:52.300] on our YouTube channel as well,
[01:20:52.300 -> 01:20:55.540] just type in highperformancepodcast onto YouTube.
[01:20:55.540 -> 01:20:58.500] And I did mention the High Performance Circle very briefly.
[01:20:58.500 -> 01:21:01.660] So many brilliant, insightful, inspirational things
[01:21:01.660 -> 01:21:03.260] on the High Performance Circle.
[01:21:03.260 -> 01:21:06.360] Just go to thehighperformancepodcast.com,
[01:21:06.360 -> 01:21:08.640] click on the circle, become part of the club,
[01:21:08.640 -> 01:21:11.380] and best of all, it's totally free.
[01:21:11.380 -> 01:21:13.240] As always, Damien and myself couldn't do this
[01:21:13.240 -> 01:21:15.540] without the hard work of Hannah and Will
[01:21:15.540 -> 01:21:18.960] and Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio, so thanks to them.
[01:21:18.960 -> 01:21:20.880] But most of all, we say it every week,
[01:21:20.880 -> 01:21:22.800] thanks to you for talking about the podcast,
[01:21:22.800 -> 01:21:24.600] sharing the podcast, and once again,
[01:21:24.600 -> 01:21:27.080] over the last seven days days downloading it in your tens
[01:21:27.080 -> None] of thousands. Wherever you are, whatever you're up to, have a good one. you