Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 20 Apr 2020 01:00:00 GMT
Duration:
44:46
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Robin Van Persie is one the greatest strikers to win the Premier League. He scored 144 goals making him the highest-scoring player from the Netherlands in English top-flight history. He was a cult hero at Arsenal, before moving to arch rivals Manchester United in 2012, then finishing his career at his first club Feyenoord. Listen to the lessons he learnt through his career, the truth behind his controversial Arsenal and Manchester Untied exits, the sacrifices he made to be an elite athlete and so much more.
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## Summary of the Podcast Episode: High Performance with Robin van Persie ##
### Introduction: ###
- Robin van Persie, a renowned striker and Premier League legend, joins the High Performance podcast.
- He shares his journey as a top-level athlete, the lessons he learned throughout his career, and the sacrifices he made to achieve success.
### High Performance: ###
- For Robin van Persie, high performance is about consistently delivering at the highest level while competing against equally skilled opponents.
### Achieving High Performance: ###
- Robin believes he reached his peak performance around the age of 27 or 28.
- He attributes his success to a combination of physical, mental, and emotional factors that came together during that period.
### Overcoming Impulsivity: ###
- In his early years, Robin admits to being impulsive and struggling with emotional control on and off the field.
- He realized that these impulsive reactions were detrimental to his performance and well-being.
### Mental and Emotional Transformation: ###
- Robin underwent a gradual transformation to overcome his impulsive tendencies.
- He learned to control his emotions, avoid reacting to provocations, and maintain a calm and focused mindset during matches.
- This transformation led to a significant improvement in his performance and overall satisfaction with the game.
### Communication and Self-Reflection: ###
- Robin emphasizes the importance of communication and self-reflection in achieving high performance.
- He engaged in regular self-analysis, writing letters to himself to identify areas for improvement and hold himself accountable.
- He credits his friends and wife for their support and honest feedback during this process.
### Making Tough Decisions: ###
- Robin acknowledges that achieving high performance sometimes requires making difficult choices.
- He discusses the challenges of cutting off negative influences and relationships that hinder personal and professional growth.
### The Importance of Positivity: ###
- Robin highlights the significance of surrounding oneself with positive and supportive individuals.
- He emphasizes the need to eliminate negativity from one's life and focus on building relationships that contribute to personal growth.
### The Zander Letter: ###
- Robin describes the concept of the "Zander letter," a technique used to set goals and reflect on future achievements.
- He explains how writing such letters helped him focus on specific areas of improvement and stay motivated.
### Transition from Arsenal to Manchester United: ###
- Robin reflects on his move from Arsenal to Manchester United, describing it as a transition from a nurturing environment to a more demanding and ruthless atmosphere.
- He acknowledges the pressure and expectations at Manchester United and the challenges he faced during his time there.
### Dealing with Criticism and Rejection: ###
- Robin recalls a conversation with Louis van Gaal, the manager at Manchester United, who bluntly informed him that his time at the club was over.
- He describes the emotional turmoil and uncertainty he experienced after receiving this news.
### Maintaining Composure Under Pressure: ###
- Robin explains how he remained calm and collected in the face of criticism and rejection.
- He attributes his ability to stay composed to his belief in his own abilities and his determination to prove his worth.
### Learning from Great Coaches: ###
- Robin expresses his gratitude for having worked with exceptional coaches throughout his career.
- He singles out Arsene Wenger as a particularly influential figure, praising his intelligence, strategic thinking, and ability to connect with players on a personal level.
### The Impact of Arsene Wenger: ###
- Robin highlights the lessons he learned from Arsene Wenger beyond football, including the importance of composure, patience, and attention to detail.
- He recalls observing Wenger's behavior and mannerisms, adopting some of his traits to improve his own approach to the game.
### Conclusion: ###
- Robin van Persie's journey to high performance involved overcoming impulsivity, embracing self-reflection, making tough decisions, surrounding himself with positivity, and learning from great coaches.
- His experiences offer valuable insights into the mindset and strategies required to achieve success in competitive sports and beyond.
Sure, here is a summary of the podcast episode:
**Summary of the Podcast Episode with Robin Van Persie**
* Robin Van Persie, one of the most prolific strikers in Premier League history, shares his insights on leadership, decision-making, and personal growth during his illustrious career.
* Reflecting on his departure from Arsenal, Van Persie acknowledges that his decision to leave was difficult but necessary. He felt that the club did not share his vision for improvement, and he sought a more ambitious environment at Manchester United.
* Van Persie emphasizes the importance of taking ownership of one's career and making tough decisions when necessary. He encourages individuals to ask questions, challenge the status quo, and strive for excellence in all aspects of life.
* He stresses the significance of effective communication and maintaining open dialogue, especially during challenging times. He believes that fostering a culture of open discussion and seeking diverse perspectives can lead to better decision-making and outcomes.
* Van Persie highlights the need for young athletes to find their passion and dedicate themselves to achieving their goals. He emphasizes the importance of setting clear objectives, seeking guidance from mentors, and continuously learning and adapting.
* He shares his belief that failure is an essential part of the growth process and that individuals should embrace challenges and learn from their mistakes. He encourages young people to take calculated risks, push their limits, and strive for greatness.
* Van Persie emphasizes the importance of living a balanced life and finding fulfillment outside of football. He believes that maintaining a healthy lifestyle, pursuing hobbies, and nurturing relationships contribute to overall well-being and success.
* The podcast concludes with Van Persie reflecting on his legacy and the impact he hopes to have on future generations. He expresses his desire to inspire young people to pursue their dreams, overcome obstacles, and make a positive difference in the world.
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[03:11.040 -> 03:14.640] Hi there I'm Jay Comfrey you're listening to High Performance the podcast that delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes
[03:14.640 -> 03:19.360] visionaries entrepreneurs and artists on the planet and aims to unlock the very
[03:19.360 -> 03:22.680] secrets to their success. Look everyone needs a professor in their life and mine
[03:22.680 -> 03:27.000] is also an author and an expert in the success of sports teams. It's Damien Hughes Mae pawb yn eisiau proffessor yn eu bywydau, ac mae'n ddarlithydd hefyd, ac yn ymwneud â'r succes o'r cwmniau chwaraeon.
[03:27.000 -> 03:31.000] Dyma Damien Hughes. Damien, fel fan o Man United, rwy'n meddwl y byddwch yn edrych arno i hyn.
[03:31.000 -> 03:38.000] Rwy'n edrych arno i hyn. Dyma rhywun sydd wedi bod yn catalyst pan ddod i Manchester United.
[03:38.000 -> 03:47.360] Rwy'n ymwneud â gwybod ychydig mwy am y mentalitâd o'r catalyst. mentality of a catalyst. Well let's get going then and welcome a footballer who is arguably one of the greatest strikers to win the Premier League a cult hero
[03:47.360 -> 03:50.960] Arsenal he controversially left to join their arch rivals at the time at
[03:50.960 -> 03:54.760] Manchester United and immediately achieved his aim of winning the title
[03:54.760 -> 03:58.000] these days the former Dutch international spends his time working as
[03:58.000 -> 04:01.640] a pundit for BT Sport but it's his career as a top-level athlete that we
[04:01.640 -> 04:05.500] are really interested in. Robin Van Persie, welcome to High Performance.
[04:05.500 -> 04:07.500] Thank you very much, thanks for having me.
[04:07.500 -> 04:09.500] Nice to be with you. Right, let's get straight into it then.
[04:09.500 -> 04:13.000] In your mind, what is high performance?
[04:13.000 -> 04:16.500] Performing at the highest level, you know,
[04:16.500 -> 04:20.500] and that's always difficult because at the highest level
[04:20.500 -> 04:24.500] you have to compete with opponents who are on a similar level
[04:24.500 -> 04:25.560] but you still
[04:25.560 -> 04:33.820] want to be better than them. But that process is a long process to reach that goal, to be
[04:33.820 -> 04:38.760] on that level which is satisfying for yourself, because that's a long process.
[04:38.760 -> 04:47.040] So when did you think that you achieved high performance, and Robin? Well, in my mind, when I was at my highest level,
[04:47.040 -> 04:49.620] I was about 27, 28, personally,
[04:50.760 -> 04:54.420] so that's a very long road until that moment.
[04:55.320 -> 04:58.060] And that starts basically from very young,
[04:58.060 -> 05:00.460] from five, six years old, you start that process
[05:00.460 -> 05:02.520] without realizing it.
[05:02.520 -> 05:07.440] But, yeah, I was at my my peak personally, mentally, physically
[05:07.440 -> 05:11.120] around that age. So how would you have defined yourself so when you were
[05:11.120 -> 05:16.440] delivering high performance at that age beyond the physical attributes of being
[05:16.440 -> 05:21.480] fast and fit and strong what were the sort of behaviors that you would
[05:21.480 -> 05:25.680] describe you were demonstrating during that time of high performance
[05:25.880 -> 05:27.880] Yeah, during that period everything came together
[05:28.600 -> 05:32.000] It's like physically mentally more in balance
[05:32.480 -> 05:38.840] I was quite impulsive when I was younger in my reactions the way I was talking
[05:39.280 -> 05:41.680] the way I was behaving the way I was playing and
[05:42.240 -> 05:45.600] that slowly changed over the years
[05:45.600 -> 05:47.680] because just by basically
[05:50.600 -> 05:53.100] listening, looking, learning,
[05:53.100 -> 05:56.860] and improving myself as a person at the start,
[05:58.600 -> 06:00.320] and then I brought that back into football
[06:00.320 -> 06:03.500] because at one point I realized that
[06:03.500 -> 06:05.340] every game was such a struggle and I
[06:05.340 -> 06:09.360] didn't really want that. I didn't want to have a constant struggle.
[06:09.360 -> 06:10.700] In what way was it a struggle?
[06:10.700 -> 06:15.880] It's like because the opponents found out that if they triggered me, if they
[06:15.880 -> 06:21.800] talked to me in a certain way or if they did all those things they could get me sent off.
[06:21.800 -> 06:22.920] What would wind you up?
[06:22.920 -> 06:25.280] It was going both ways, because if the opponent
[06:25.280 -> 06:29.560] was like stepping on my toes and sort of trying to bully me,
[06:29.560 -> 06:32.920] I was going really hard, and I was going against it.
[06:32.920 -> 06:36.560] But in the end, after a couple of, after a period,
[06:36.560 -> 06:39.800] I started to think about that, and then it made sense to me.
[06:39.800 -> 06:43.480] I was like, okay, the reaction I have,
[06:43.480 -> 06:46.400] I shouldn't have that reaction, I shouldn't go against it.
[06:46.400 -> 06:47.860] I should stand above it.
[06:47.860 -> 06:50.640] So that is like a process of a couple of years,
[06:50.640 -> 06:55.240] because if I go against it, then it's such a struggle.
[06:55.240 -> 06:57.500] I was just like mentally, physically,
[06:57.500 -> 07:00.800] I was drained after every match for quite a long time,
[07:00.800 -> 07:03.660] from the age of 23 till 26.
[07:03.660 -> 07:07.400] And then I realized that I was like constantly
[07:08.580 -> 07:09.700] fighting, you know?
[07:09.700 -> 07:13.040] And as well, I was, if I missed a chance, for example,
[07:13.040 -> 07:15.420] that's a process as well, I was very emotional
[07:15.420 -> 07:16.380] after I missed a chance.
[07:16.380 -> 07:18.960] I was like constantly, ah, no, and showing the world
[07:18.960 -> 07:20.980] how disappointed I was.
[07:20.980 -> 07:22.980] And then, at one point, I was like, yeah,
[07:22.980 -> 07:24.860] but that's weakness somewhere, you know?
[07:24.860 -> 07:29.500] Because then the opponent sees that I'm disappointed and that I'm not happy with myself.
[07:29.500 -> 07:36.800] So I slowly start to change that and I was like, okay, you know, if I don't show my weakness,
[07:36.800 -> 07:47.720] then they don't have like, if I don't react on the bullying, if I don't react, if I miss a chance then I become stronger and better
[07:47.720 -> 07:52.560] and once I started to do that I talked with us and Venga about this as well
[07:52.560 -> 07:57.080] everything became lighter you know it was so heavy it was for all those years
[07:57.080 -> 08:00.720] it was heavy but I was making it heavy yeah it just I just needed a couple of
[08:00.720 -> 08:04.280] years to realize that. What I find interesting on that Robin is that I
[08:04.280 -> 08:06.160] think that takes real courage to have that. But what I find interesting on that, Robin, is that I think that takes real courage
[08:06.160 -> 08:07.920] to have that reflection,
[08:07.920 -> 08:11.880] because what you'd been doing had obviously worked for you.
[08:11.880 -> 08:13.400] You know, like when you look back at the start
[08:13.400 -> 08:16.840] of your career of leaving ex-Chelsea,
[08:16.840 -> 08:18.440] and then the run-ins that you'd had
[08:18.440 -> 08:21.320] with the coach at Feyenoord,
[08:21.320 -> 08:24.760] that you'd obviously been fighting and resisting it,
[08:24.760 -> 08:26.560] and you'd still been achieving success.
[08:26.720 -> 08:32.600] Yeah, but that was because of the love of the game because I truly love football from the bottom of my heart.
[08:32.600 -> 08:34.600] I love it. And that is what
[08:34.800 -> 08:40.560] well, sort of saved me in a way because I made some stupid mistakes over the years, you know, some silly ones.
[08:40.560 -> 08:46.360] What sort of things did you do? From arguing with all the players. It's like
[08:46.360 -> 08:50.280] you have to know your place as well. In football it's like when you're young that's your place.
[08:50.280 -> 08:57.200] You have to earn the right basically. I wasn't doing that. I was very impulsive. I was very
[08:57.200 -> 09:04.000] against the rules somehow. So why was I doing that? Why was I against hierarchy? I wonder
[09:04.000 -> 09:08.000] whether you almost felt you needed to be like that to show you cared
[09:08.000 -> 09:12.400] and to show you wanted to be the best. You know, you didn't want to just cruise into training
[09:12.400 -> 09:18.800] and cruise through training and cruise through a game. You almost felt you needed to have a battle every game
[09:18.800 -> 09:21.600] to show your teammates and yourself, yeah, this matters to you.
[09:21.600 -> 09:27.760] It was going too far. It was going too far and was becoming a problem because I wasn't creating nice stuff.
[09:27.760 -> 09:29.600] I was making problems for myself.
[09:29.600 -> 09:33.880] I wasn't really expressing myself good enough
[09:33.880 -> 09:35.080] just to solve the problem
[09:35.080 -> 09:38.680] because most problems started with communication.
[09:38.680 -> 09:41.080] If you just talk about it in a normal way,
[09:41.080 -> 09:44.480] you can solve a lot of possible problems.
[09:44.480 -> 09:48.280] And so over the years, I kept asking questions
[09:48.280 -> 09:51.140] and I even wrote stuff down to myself.
[09:51.140 -> 09:52.840] So at one point at Arsenal, after two years,
[09:52.840 -> 09:54.560] I wasn't satisfied, I wasn't happy.
[09:54.560 -> 09:57.440] It was going okay, but not good enough.
[09:57.440 -> 10:00.840] So I started to write a letter to myself.
[10:00.840 -> 10:03.320] What are my positives and what are my negatives?
[10:03.320 -> 10:06.040] And then I noticed that I was lying to myself.
[10:06.040 -> 10:09.840] I was making myself look or feel better.
[10:09.840 -> 10:12.540] So by reading it back I think,
[10:12.540 -> 10:14.960] nah, that's not true, brother.
[10:14.960 -> 10:15.800] You know what I mean?
[10:15.800 -> 10:16.640] It's crazy.
[10:16.640 -> 10:17.480] Did you do that on your own or did your wife
[10:17.480 -> 10:18.320] help you with that?
[10:18.320 -> 10:20.760] Yeah, well, I was talking with my wife a lot
[10:20.760 -> 10:22.840] and with my friends and then,
[10:22.840 -> 10:25.640] that is something as well. Friends have an influence.
[10:25.640 -> 10:29.960] Everyone in your life has an influence and you need to, at one point, you need to be
[10:29.960 -> 10:36.280] very honest to yourself if those people in your life, whoever it is, if it's your wife
[10:36.280 -> 10:42.080] or your friends or your family, have a positive impact on your life.
[10:42.080 -> 10:46.800] And I think if you aim for, to be the best in your sport in this
[10:46.800 -> 10:51.420] case you have to be ruthless at one certain point you have to cut out the
[10:51.420 -> 10:58.360] people who bring negativity and that is very hard. How did you do it because
[10:58.360 -> 11:01.120] there'll be people listening to this podcast and they're not professional
[11:01.120 -> 11:05.800] athletes yes but they find their life is made more difficult
[11:05.800 -> 11:07.920] by the people around them, or maybe they drain them.
[11:07.920 -> 11:10.760] What process did you go through to decide,
[11:10.760 -> 11:14.040] quite ruthlessly, who could no longer be part of your life?
[11:14.040 -> 11:17.880] At one point, I was ending up in situations
[11:17.880 -> 11:20.320] where I just didn't want to end up in.
[11:20.320 -> 11:21.920] And it wasn't my fault, it was the fault
[11:21.920 -> 11:24.200] of the people I was around with.
[11:24.200 -> 11:27.200] And I was thinking, yeah, okay, this is not bringing me further, you know, I have
[11:27.200 -> 11:29.400] a dream, I want to live my dream.
[11:29.400 -> 11:35.560] Because I had this romantic idea of my childhood friends, they should always stay with me,
[11:35.560 -> 11:40.960] they should always stay connected, and I want them in my life forever.
[11:40.960 -> 11:43.360] But okay, we have a different life.
[11:43.360 -> 11:47.180] So at one point, I just made a roundup of what
[11:47.180 -> 11:51.700] they bring what they offer me because I'm giving them time in some cases I
[11:51.700 -> 11:58.000] gave them money I tried to help them but what do they gave me? They have to at one
[11:58.000 -> 12:07.500] point they have to accept what the situation is of their life and my life, and they have to sort of somehow live
[12:07.500 -> 12:09.580] by those unwritten rules.
[12:09.580 -> 12:13.180] And some of my childhood friends didn't do that.
[12:13.180 -> 12:16.640] So they could not follow, they could not follow me,
[12:16.640 -> 12:18.900] because I was going fast in my life.
[12:18.900 -> 12:20.380] So I just rounded it up.
[12:20.380 -> 12:22.680] Do they bring something positive in my life?
[12:22.680 -> 12:25.200] Anything, even if it's something small, it's fine.
[12:25.200 -> 12:28.360] But they weren't at one certain point.
[12:28.360 -> 12:29.920] And then I just invited them,
[12:29.920 -> 12:31.920] and I said to two of my childhood friends,
[12:31.920 -> 12:35.720] I said, guys, I said, I love you, I respect you,
[12:35.720 -> 12:37.800] but I have different dreams than you guys.
[12:37.800 -> 12:39.880] So it was up here.
[12:39.880 -> 12:41.080] It was up.
[12:41.080 -> 12:43.800] How old were you when you were having this conversation?
[12:43.800 -> 12:46.500] 24, 25.
[12:47.340 -> 12:48.780] Wow. Yeah, and these guys are new from a young age.
[12:48.780 -> 12:51.480] I said, because you make different choices,
[12:51.480 -> 12:53.980] you have different priorities than me,
[12:53.980 -> 12:54.820] and I can't have that.
[12:54.820 -> 12:57.660] I can't have negativity in my life
[12:57.660 -> 13:00.120] because this is where I want to go to,
[13:00.120 -> 13:03.340] and if I have to constantly lose energy on you guys,
[13:03.340 -> 13:05.080] it's not gonna help me.
[13:05.080 -> 13:07.720] That's ruthless, that's hard.
[13:07.720 -> 13:10.720] But I felt that I needed to do that.
[13:10.720 -> 13:12.480] There's a really nice way of describing that,
[13:12.480 -> 13:14.480] that it's often, we talk about the people
[13:14.480 -> 13:17.200] that come with us are with us for seasons,
[13:17.200 -> 13:19.200] reasons, or lifetimes.
[13:19.200 -> 13:20.640] Yeah, you have periods, you have phases
[13:20.640 -> 13:22.680] with people in your life.
[13:22.680 -> 13:24.720] In my case, because I'm quite intense,
[13:24.720 -> 13:26.080] I'm all or nothing.
[13:26.080 -> 13:29.480] So I had to bring that level down of myself as well.
[13:29.480 -> 13:31.720] I had to take it a little bit softer.
[13:31.720 -> 13:34.680] That was a process of many years as well.
[13:34.680 -> 13:38.800] So in my private life, I started to have friendships
[13:38.800 -> 13:41.000] which were lighter, not so intense.
[13:41.000 -> 13:43.440] And that cost less energy, you know?
[13:43.440 -> 13:45.040] So I could focus more on football
[13:45.040 -> 13:50.260] but the main thing I think for everyone who's listening as well is that keep
[13:50.260 -> 13:55.360] asking yourself even stupid questions you know keep asking them to yourself
[13:55.360 -> 14:00.280] and write letters to yourself of how it's going. Do you remember what was in the
[14:00.280 -> 14:06.840] letters? Yeah it was like but that letter I wrote to myself was more about me
[14:06.840 -> 14:13.480] as a player, what I liked about myself, what I could improve.
[14:13.480 -> 14:16.840] From memory, what could you improve? What did you write down in the improved column?
[14:16.840 -> 14:26.360] Goals, I should score more goals, I should make more runs in behind by talking to Shaw, Campbell, Jerry Henry, Bergkamp,
[14:26.360 -> 14:28.360] Pires, all these guys.
[14:28.360 -> 14:33.840] Shaw told me once, he said, Robin, the way you play is a dream for a defender like me.
[14:33.840 -> 14:34.840] I said, why?
[14:34.840 -> 14:35.840] Tell me why.
[14:35.840 -> 14:38.400] He said, because you want every ball in your feet.
[14:38.400 -> 14:46.440] You have to force me to make a choice, you know, to close you down or to follow you, you have to make runs in behind.
[14:46.440 -> 14:48.000] So I was like, okay, hang on.
[14:48.000 -> 14:51.800] Then I came up with the rule, okay, out of three actions,
[14:51.800 -> 14:54.000] at least one of them needs to be in behind
[14:54.000 -> 14:56.080] because I have to hurt the defenders
[14:56.080 -> 14:58.000] because Saul Campbell told me he doesn't like it.
[14:58.000 -> 14:59.000] You know?
[14:59.000 -> 15:01.960] So I was like constantly asking myself questions
[15:01.960 -> 15:05.120] and listening, listening to players who were better than me.
[15:05.120 -> 15:07.900] What you're describing is something that
[15:07.900 -> 15:10.240] is sometimes referred to as the Zander letter,
[15:10.240 -> 15:13.060] and it's named after, there's a conductor in Boston
[15:13.060 -> 15:16.800] called Benjamin Zander, and when he was teaching
[15:16.800 -> 15:20.220] sort of appreciation of music and the arts
[15:20.220 -> 15:22.260] and things like that, one of the things he found
[15:22.260 -> 15:28.000] with his students was that they got too caught up in the result that they were getting
[15:28.000 -> 15:36.000] rather than learning about the process of appreciating music. So he used to get them to write a letter to themselves
[15:36.000 -> 15:47.300] but basic 12 months in the future and talk about all the things that they were going to achieve and all the things they were going learn some love about music. Yeah, I had a chat with a colleague of mine.
[15:48.740 -> 15:52.000] I will not name his name because he's still playing.
[15:52.000 -> 15:55.120] But he had this, he came up with this idea,
[15:55.120 -> 15:57.960] I was listening to him for an hour, getting bored,
[15:57.960 -> 15:59.960] he was like, yeah, I will buy 50 apartments
[15:59.960 -> 16:02.440] and I will get a grand per apartment
[16:02.440 -> 16:04.040] and this is how I make my money.
[16:04.040 -> 16:05.960] And he was playing in a Premier League back then and
[16:06.760 -> 16:09.240] Then after one hour he asked me what my opinion was
[16:09.240 -> 16:13.280] I said, but if you want to make money you should work on your first touch and your header
[16:13.840 -> 16:15.840] You know, I said this is what you should
[16:16.360 -> 16:21.600] Work on because if you do that, you will make ten times more than this grant per apartment
[16:21.600 -> 16:25.000] I said if you fix that you will be a world-class player.
[16:25.000 -> 16:27.000] And did he take your advice?
[16:27.000 -> 16:29.000] No, he didn't listen.
[16:29.000 -> 16:32.000] He didn't listen. But to be fair to him, he had a good career.
[16:32.000 -> 16:35.000] He had an okay career, but could be better, should be better.
[16:35.000 -> 16:38.000] I wonder how different, though, that Robin van Persie is
[16:38.000 -> 16:43.000] to the Robin van Persie who is a petulant youth team player causing problems.
[16:43.000 -> 16:45.440] I think that often when people first start out,
[16:45.440 -> 16:48.600] whatever their career, this isn't just about football,
[16:48.600 -> 16:50.120] everyone starts out selfish,
[16:50.120 -> 16:52.320] because it's about me achieving my aims
[16:52.320 -> 16:54.560] and my ambitions for my life.
[16:54.560 -> 16:57.560] And I think it takes time to get to a point where,
[16:57.560 -> 16:59.800] and I think we would both agree,
[16:59.800 -> 17:02.600] we're all in our, you're not quite in your 40s yet,
[17:02.600 -> 17:04.320] but we're in our 40s,
[17:04.320 -> 17:07.640] and life becomes about building other people up.
[17:07.640 -> 17:09.440] And it's one of the best,
[17:09.440 -> 17:12.740] it's almost a better feeling than achieving yourself,
[17:12.740 -> 17:14.720] is helping other people to thrive.
[17:14.720 -> 17:17.720] But it's hard to do that when you're 15, 16.
[17:17.720 -> 17:20.440] No, this is a very deep one,
[17:20.440 -> 17:23.160] because will you get to this stage
[17:23.160 -> 17:25.420] without being selfish earliest stages?
[17:26.480 -> 17:28.140] So you have to be selfish in the beginning
[17:28.140 -> 17:30.600] to get the success to then be selfless and pass it on?
[17:30.600 -> 17:31.640] Yeah, I think so.
[17:31.640 -> 17:35.080] I think so, to actually achieve what you want to achieve
[17:35.080 -> 17:39.380] to be able to give back, you have to be selfish.
[17:39.380 -> 17:41.160] Then football is ruthless.
[17:41.160 -> 17:43.120] And at any business it's like that.
[17:43.120 -> 17:44.120] So you have to be selfish
[17:44.120 -> 17:48.600] and you have to come up for yourself. You have to in a team, in any team, in any business
[17:48.600 -> 17:53.480] you have to make sure that your position is there, safe, because otherwise you get
[17:53.480 -> 17:58.280] eaten. Well I'm interested in say like your experience of going into Manchester
[17:58.280 -> 18:04.640] United, so you'd been through a period of Arsenal where you hadn't been
[18:04.640 -> 18:07.960] winning a lot and it almost felt like there was a certain drift
[18:08.160 -> 18:08.660] Yeah
[18:08.660 -> 18:13.480] for a Malays and then you went into an environment where you were expected to win the title you came in
[18:13.480 -> 18:14.240] Yeah
[18:14.240 -> 18:18.840] There was a it seems to me like a very different culture. What was your experience of that?
[18:19.480 -> 18:23.640] Yeah, it was a different world if you compare Arsenal with Manchester United
[18:24.520 -> 18:25.040] but I was I was Yeah ready for that world It was a different world if you compare Arsenal with Manchester United.
[18:25.040 -> 18:31.040] But I was ready for that world.
[18:31.040 -> 18:38.960] As a young player it was much easier to get into the Arsenal team, into the Arsenal philosophy
[18:38.960 -> 18:41.600] with a coach like Arsene.
[18:41.600 -> 18:45.000] And Manchester United is like a beast, you know?
[18:45.000 -> 18:48.000] You have to, you have to perform back in the day.
[18:48.000 -> 18:52.000] So that was a different experience for me, but I was ready for that.
[18:52.000 -> 18:59.000] And all those years of asking questions and becoming better on all levels
[18:59.000 -> 19:03.000] did help me to be ready for a challenge like that.
[19:03.000 -> 19:07.880] And what would you say was the biggest difference then that you noticed when you went into Manchester United?
[19:08.640 -> 19:14.900] If you're winning, everything is beautiful. You know the whole because the impact of Manchester United was
[19:15.680 -> 19:23.040] bigger in terms of you know worldwide and amount of fans etc the size of the club, but if you look at
[19:23.800 -> 19:27.080] When it doesn't go well, you know, at Arsenal
[19:27.080 -> 19:29.840] if it doesn't go well you have your coach who protects you, you have your players who
[19:29.840 -> 19:35.920] protect you. But Manchester United you're on yourself, you're alone. No one protects you.
[19:35.920 -> 19:36.920] Is that healthy?
[19:36.920 -> 19:44.120] No, it's tougher, it's ruthless. And I've experienced that in my second year when things
[19:44.120 -> 19:47.000] weren't going well. I was still scoring 18 goals that second year.
[19:47.000 -> 19:49.000] Scoring 12 for the national team.
[19:49.000 -> 19:51.000] So it's not a bad season or something.
[19:51.000 -> 19:53.000] But people were ruthless.
[19:53.000 -> 19:54.000] It's not good enough.
[19:54.000 -> 19:55.000] Bang.
[19:55.000 -> 19:57.000] Then you're on your own.
[19:57.000 -> 20:01.000] And that was sort of like a period where I was thinking, yeah, I'm not that bad, you know.
[20:01.000 -> 20:04.000] I was telling myself, I'm not that bad of a player.
[20:04.000 -> 20:05.560] I'm still scoring.
[20:05.560 -> 20:11.640] Okay, maybe I'm not like last season or whatever, but it was just ruthless, hard.
[20:11.640 -> 20:19.640] And then I had to, in my last season, I had this chat with you about the check, where
[20:19.640 -> 20:23.280] I had two very good seasons with the national team.
[20:23.280 -> 20:29.040] Then I worked, okay, the season, his first season, my last season at Manchester was not
[20:29.040 -> 20:30.480] great.
[20:30.480 -> 20:36.920] And then I had this chat with Louis van Gaal and then he told me, okay, Robin, I'm the
[20:36.920 -> 20:40.600] coach, you are the player, and you have to go.
[20:40.600 -> 20:41.600] Your time is up.
[20:41.600 -> 20:44.000] I was like, yeah, but I still have a contract.
[20:44.000 -> 20:45.840] He said, yeah, I don't care.
[20:45.840 -> 20:47.340] He said, ruthless.
[20:48.340 -> 20:51.520] Yeah, towards the end of it, I saw something coming,
[20:51.520 -> 20:55.640] but not this ruthless, and the way he said it as well.
[20:55.640 -> 20:58.980] And then, like a lot of things go through your mind,
[20:58.980 -> 21:01.980] you know, when you get a message like that,
[21:01.980 -> 21:04.140] because I still have a contract, my family was happy,
[21:04.140 -> 21:05.940] it was my 11th year in England.
[21:05.940 -> 21:08.780] We love living in England.
[21:08.780 -> 21:09.780] What's next?
[21:09.780 -> 21:12.180] My kids going to school, they have their friends and everything.
[21:12.180 -> 21:16.620] So in like a split second, all these things come across.
[21:16.620 -> 21:18.860] And how do you react to that?
[21:18.860 -> 21:20.860] I said, okay, I said, we will see what happens.
[21:20.860 -> 21:22.940] I said, that's your opinion.
[21:22.940 -> 21:27.280] I said, but I have a contract and I'm happy in England
[21:27.280 -> 21:33.360] and Manchester United and my family is as well. So we will see what happens. I just
[21:33.360 -> 21:39.880] shook his hand, stood up, I was at the golf club in May, stood up and left it.
[21:39.880 -> 21:46.760] And how quickly did you decide that on the training pitch and in games you would attempt to change
[21:46.760 -> 21:50.320] his mind and prove to him that he's made a mistake?
[21:50.320 -> 21:55.760] Well on the way back home I was thinking, hmm, okay this is tough.
[21:55.760 -> 21:58.360] How do you react to a message like that?
[21:58.360 -> 22:01.320] That ruthless, that hard, that direct.
[22:01.320 -> 22:06.000] And then loads of things came from my mind. And we started pre-season,
[22:06.000 -> 22:09.000] then I wasn't allowed to play in the 11 against 11.
[22:09.000 -> 22:12.000] You got a ball and do your own stuff.
[22:12.000 -> 22:14.000] I was like, okay, hang on.
[22:14.000 -> 22:17.000] So you try to stay calm, stay cool.
[22:17.000 -> 22:18.000] You know what I mean?
[22:18.000 -> 22:20.000] But there's like loads of things happening.
[22:20.000 -> 22:22.000] You're playing the macho card.
[22:22.000 -> 22:24.000] Like, okay, it doesn't affect me, it doesn't do this.
[22:24.000 -> 22:28.360] But it does affect me and my family and and my career you know
[22:28.360 -> 22:33.400] big time maybe at that point it was good for me to talk to someone outside my
[22:33.400 -> 22:39.960] inner circle but I was too stubborn as well to do that now if I look back at it
[22:39.960 -> 22:51.120] there were maybe a couple of points in my career where I should have done that. I had that feeling like a life coach or a mentor, a trainer.
[22:51.120 -> 22:55.200] I always had a feeling, yeah, but these people will create problems instead of solving them.
[22:55.200 -> 22:57.360] So I kept them at distance.
[22:57.360 -> 23:02.740] And up until today, I never had a session with anyone in that way.
[23:02.740 -> 23:09.000] But now I'm open to it. And maybe it's partly age, experience,
[23:09.000 -> 23:12.000] but if I look back at my career,
[23:12.000 -> 23:16.000] could have been a good case if I would have talked to someone like that
[23:16.000 -> 23:18.000] at this particular moment, for example.
[23:18.000 -> 23:23.000] But it's often said that the best managers are the best psychologists as well.
[23:23.000 -> 23:25.620] So who would you say was the best coach
[23:25.620 -> 23:29.320] you had that got the best out of you as an individual?
[23:29.320 -> 23:37.580] I was lucky to have such great coaches. But Arsene, Arsene was so intelligent. You could
[23:37.580 -> 23:43.280] talk to him about anything. What I learned from him as well, and this is like when you
[23:43.280 -> 23:46.160] talk to Arsene, he's not answering straight away,
[23:46.160 -> 23:47.320] maybe you know that.
[23:47.320 -> 23:49.160] He's letting the question in first,
[23:49.160 -> 23:51.160] then he checks you out when you have a normal conversation.
[23:51.160 -> 23:52.960] He checks you from the front, from the left,
[23:52.960 -> 23:54.840] from the right, then he answers.
[23:54.840 -> 23:57.960] So I was like, I'm way too soon with my answers, you know?
[23:57.960 -> 24:00.240] And sometimes I think, ah, my answer's too fast, you know?
[24:00.240 -> 24:02.840] I should have thought about it a bit longer.
[24:02.840 -> 24:04.640] And then I saw him doing that in interviews,
[24:04.640 -> 24:07.080] and just by chatting to him, I was thinking,
[24:07.080 -> 24:08.780] okay, I will pick that up from him.
[24:08.780 -> 24:09.620] That's clever.
[24:09.620 -> 24:10.460] Just pick it up.
[24:10.460 -> 24:11.680] You were learning more than just football
[24:11.680 -> 24:12.520] from Arsene Wenger.
[24:12.520 -> 24:13.840] Yes, very much.
[24:13.840 -> 24:18.000] And he's a professor in maths, in German, English.
[24:19.320 -> 24:20.960] Such a clever guy.
[24:20.960 -> 24:23.560] I was learning as well off the pitch
[24:23.560 -> 24:26.320] by looking at Bergkamp, even how they had their lunch.
[24:26.320 -> 24:32.200] Early days I had my lunch like quick, quick, quick, bang, in, out, always on the go.
[24:32.200 -> 24:37.120] Then I saw these guys, they were putting their jacket on the seat and they were talking before
[24:37.120 -> 24:39.260] they were eating, they were making jokes.
[24:39.260 -> 24:41.320] Then they enjoyed their lunch.
[24:41.320 -> 24:43.720] Then they had a nice cup of coffee.
[24:43.720 -> 24:46.880] It was just so tranquilo, so relaxed, you know?
[24:46.880 -> 24:49.960] And I was so everything except relaxed.
[24:49.960 -> 24:51.480] I was all over the place.
[24:51.480 -> 24:53.320] I read a story, Ian Wright told it
[24:53.320 -> 24:54.800] when he shared with Dennis Bergkamp,
[24:54.800 -> 24:58.040] and he saw him wearing pajamas.
[24:58.040 -> 25:00.320] And he said that he started to wear pajamas
[25:00.320 -> 25:01.640] because Dennis Bergkamp did.
[25:01.640 -> 25:02.680] Oh, really? On a way trip.
[25:02.680 -> 25:06.760] So, yeah, you're in good company in terms of copying him.
[25:06.760 -> 25:08.400] Yeah, yeah, well of course, yeah.
[25:08.400 -> 25:15.560] Dennis was a very interesting person, character, player.
[25:15.560 -> 25:18.920] It's like off-camera, he's one of the funniest guys you will ever see,
[25:18.920 -> 25:21.760] especially in English, so funny, so dry.
[25:21.760 -> 25:23.160] It's ridiculous.
[25:23.160 -> 25:25.700] It's just when the camera, when the lights go on,
[25:25.700 -> 25:30.700] he's shy, you know, almost, but very clever, clever guy.
[25:31.520 -> 25:33.680] And I learned a lot by just looking at him.
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[28:16.200 -> 28:21.020] So when you've spent your formative football years with Arsene Wenger and he's taught you
[28:21.020 -> 28:25.960] so much more than just football, almost like a father figure. Lots of players talk about him like that.
[28:25.960 -> 28:31.960] How difficult was the conversation the day when you went to him
[28:31.960 -> 28:36.160] to explain what had to change at Arsenal for you to stay?
[28:36.160 -> 28:43.760] Well, there was actually before our last decisive chat
[28:43.760 -> 28:47.280] that was in Austria in training camp. Before that we
[28:47.280 -> 28:54.080] were changing our philosophies of how to bring the club forward. But it was not
[28:54.080 -> 28:58.720] only between me and Arsene because it was like I told you before there was more
[28:58.720 -> 29:04.200] happening with Ivan of course and then the way he behaved and he handled the
[29:04.200 -> 29:05.320] whole situation.
[29:05.320 -> 29:08.680] Do you want to talk about that?
[29:08.680 -> 29:15.920] If I look back at that whole situation, in that situation I have to look at myself as
[29:15.920 -> 29:21.480] well where I could have done better or could have done something differently.
[29:21.480 -> 29:27.600] If I look back at that, that open letter, I didn't mention it during our show with BT,
[29:27.600 -> 29:29.760] that open letter, I shouldn't have done that.
[29:29.760 -> 29:35.640] If you look back at that, it is impossible to, in such a delicate, difficult situation
[29:35.640 -> 29:43.080] of making a transfer after spending so much time at Arsenal, to make a decision to write
[29:43.080 -> 29:47.000] an open letter to tell my truth in two pages is impossible.
[29:47.000 -> 29:48.240] And where did you do that?
[29:48.240 -> 29:49.760] Sorry, Robin, where was the letter?
[29:49.760 -> 29:52.440] Yeah, I think back then I went to the newspaper because there was not...
[29:52.440 -> 29:55.080] In the Telegraph, I think, they wrote it, something like that.
[29:55.080 -> 30:01.080] So I did that, and that was because I was disappointed with Ivan, with his behavior.
[30:01.080 -> 30:07.560] But I could not go into detail about what exactly then, you know, because it's just impossible to tell the whole
[30:08.000 -> 30:14.440] story behind it and partly was the fact that Arsenal didn't offer me a deal. Okay, but
[30:15.320 -> 30:19.400] so there was, there was a, if I look back at that, I should have done that better.
[30:19.560 -> 30:22.360] Because the difficult thing for Arsenal fans even now,
[30:22.360 -> 30:22.860] Yeah.
[30:22.860 -> 30:28.360] Is, you know, we talk about the fact they didn't offer you a deal, but then when you released the statement to the papers you
[30:28.360 -> 30:30.160] said you've decided not to stay.
[30:30.160 -> 30:31.160] Yeah, exactly.
[30:31.160 -> 30:36.160] And is that, for Arsenal fans it's still a difficult period to get their heads around.
[30:36.160 -> 30:37.640] They still don't quite understand it I don't think.
[30:37.640 -> 30:44.320] I can promise you, my kids, if everyone, if someone comes with proof that Arsenal offered
[30:44.320 -> 30:48.880] me a deal, I will give you a million now today. But did you make it almost impossible to
[30:48.880 -> 30:52.000] offer you a deal because you were so demanding because you were so desperate
[30:52.000 -> 30:59.200] to win the Premier League? No it was it was Arsenal's decision not to offer me a deal and
[30:59.200 -> 31:07.680] that is up to them you know after conversations, it became clear that we had different ideas.
[31:07.680 -> 31:09.680] What was it that you think was lacking?
[31:09.680 -> 31:13.680] What did you need from Arsenal at that time to convince you to stay?
[31:13.680 -> 31:18.080] I had seven points where I thought Arsenal could improve.
[31:18.080 -> 31:22.800] And in my opinion, those seven points should...
[31:22.800 -> 31:27.960] They should start with dealing with them straight straight away to be able to compete with
[31:27.960 -> 31:28.960] the best teams.
[31:28.960 -> 31:29.960] Do you remember what they were?
[31:29.960 -> 31:34.160] Yeah, but it doesn't really matter what points they were.
[31:34.160 -> 31:41.600] What matters is that Ivan decided that he didn't agree on one single point of those
[31:41.600 -> 31:47.240] seven points, which is fair enough. So taking that information
[31:47.240 -> 31:54.000] on board, so Arsenal doesn't offer me a deal, they didn't agree with my views. My views
[31:54.000 -> 31:59.840] were only to help, you know, it was like honest views of how the club should move forward.
[31:59.840 -> 32:08.320] That is a very clear message. You know, for me it is not an issue anymore. I'm now talking with you about it for the second time and that is fine.
[32:08.320 -> 32:10.320] It is not an issue for me.
[32:10.320 -> 32:11.320] That's life.
[32:11.320 -> 32:12.880] That's life at the top.
[32:12.880 -> 32:19.680] Clubs, businesses make decisions and players as well in this case do as well.
[32:19.680 -> 32:21.920] I'm perfectly happy how it ended up.
[32:21.920 -> 32:26.000] I went to Manchester United, we won the league.
[32:26.000 -> 32:30.000] So it's perfectly fine for me and I'm not angry with Ivan.
[32:30.000 -> 32:34.000] I'm grateful to have worked with Arsene for eight years.
[32:34.000 -> 32:38.000] He played such a crucial part in my career.
[32:38.000 -> 32:41.000] I can honestly say that without his influence,
[32:41.000 -> 32:46.360] I would not be the player I ended up with in the end so I'm thankful
[32:46.360 -> 32:51.200] I'm happy and thankful it's just that there are certain facts you can't look
[32:51.200 -> 32:55.800] away from you know it's just how it was. And is it hard when you can't talk
[32:55.800 -> 32:59.640] because you you know you played through injuries you dedicate yourself every day
[32:59.640 -> 33:03.680] you trained hard you loved the club loved the fans loved the manager and
[33:03.680 -> 33:05.920] then when when it all when the fallout happens,
[33:07.320 -> 33:09.640] you just have to kind of accept it.
[33:09.640 -> 33:12.320] And I always, whether it's football or something else,
[33:12.320 -> 33:14.200] I think that's a very difficult position
[33:14.200 -> 33:15.480] for a human being to be in,
[33:15.480 -> 33:17.080] where you're like, hold on,
[33:17.080 -> 33:19.760] you've seen 10% of the truth
[33:19.760 -> 33:22.640] and you've made the other 90% up, you know?
[33:22.640 -> 33:31.080] Yeah, but I do, I sort of realize that people have that judgement ready based on 10% like you said.
[33:31.080 -> 33:32.640] And that is how it is.
[33:32.640 -> 33:38.800] But honestly, I'm grateful for Arsenal for the years I've played there, for Arsene.
[33:38.800 -> 33:41.860] Well, Ivan and me didn't really click.
[33:41.860 -> 33:43.420] That can happen as well.
[33:43.420 -> 33:45.520] But it's a big man's world.
[33:46.440 -> 33:50.100] There is a moment where you have to move on.
[33:51.720 -> 33:54.360] Like I said as well, sometimes in the top
[33:54.360 -> 33:56.480] it can be ruthless.
[33:56.480 -> 33:59.280] Sometimes in your favor, sometimes against you.
[33:59.280 -> 34:01.040] But to come back on this topic,
[34:01.040 -> 34:02.680] how do you deal with that?
[34:02.680 -> 34:08.000] How do you deal with such things who have such a big impact on your life?
[34:08.000 -> 34:14.520] Key to that is communicating, keep talking, and although some situations can be very difficult,
[34:14.520 -> 34:16.480] stay open for others.
[34:16.480 -> 34:20.440] Because I know a lot of colleagues of mine as well who tend to close up.
[34:20.440 -> 34:24.040] When things become difficult, they close up and they stop to talk to anyone.
[34:24.040 -> 34:31.360] But that is not the solution. You should stay yourself, stay open, keep asking questions and stay friendly, you know?
[34:31.360 -> 34:37.200] So, you made a comment earlier, Robin, where you spoke about when you first, as a young player,
[34:37.200 -> 34:42.400] you had to know your place in terms of what you could say and what you could challenge.
[34:42.400 -> 34:46.640] When did you feel that it was your place to go and make
[34:46.640 -> 34:51.960] these seven points and challenge the culture and what you saw the club needed to do?
[34:51.960 -> 34:58.240] That was my period when I was the captain, top scorer, that was the period where I felt
[34:58.240 -> 35:05.840] that my views would count. And as a 20 year old kid your views of how the club should move
[35:05.840 -> 35:09.840] forward don't really count. Then you have to fight for your place, be quiet
[35:09.840 -> 35:15.880] and learn and be a better player, try to be a better player every day. But I was
[35:15.880 -> 35:22.360] 28, back then 29, I felt that it was my right to give my honest
[35:22.360 -> 35:26.800] opinion. Sure, it sounds like you were isolated on your own in terms of
[35:27.080 -> 35:31.600] that the club decided to reject you from the organization.
[35:31.600 -> 35:34.360] Do you feel you could have recruited other
[35:35.560 -> 35:41.440] characters within that dressing room that had equal weight or equal credibility to enhance your argument?
[35:42.280 -> 35:44.280] Yeah, good point.
[35:42.400 -> 35:43.820] to enhance your argument? Yeah, good point.
[35:46.700 -> 35:48.640] For example, some colleagues did came up
[35:48.640 -> 35:51.180] and did wanted to support me,
[35:51.180 -> 35:54.180] but I said no because for one reason
[35:54.180 -> 35:57.200] is that I didn't want to put them in a difficult place.
[35:57.200 -> 35:59.880] I didn't want to put them in my place
[35:59.880 -> 36:03.120] because it was my right to speak out
[36:03.120 -> 36:05.200] and I was the captain of that team.
[36:05.200 -> 36:11.280] So in my opinion, if I would bring two or three other guys who shared my opinion,
[36:11.280 -> 36:13.520] it would put them in a difficult place.
[36:13.520 -> 36:17.360] I will not do that because I will take the blame,
[36:17.360 -> 36:19.920] I will live with the consequences, whatever they are,
[36:19.920 -> 36:22.960] but I don't want to put you guys into this position.
[36:22.960 -> 36:25.680] It's not an easy thing, is it, for a football club to say,
[36:25.680 -> 36:29.000] actually, that footballer, that individual player,
[36:29.000 -> 36:31.760] can help to change the culture of this football club.
[36:31.760 -> 36:33.240] But maybe that's the healthiest thing.
[36:33.240 -> 36:34.640] The healthiest thing to do at a football club
[36:34.640 -> 36:38.320] is to take the input from an experienced pro,
[36:38.320 -> 36:40.040] a 19-year-old who can tell you
[36:40.040 -> 36:42.120] what the pathway is like from the academy,
[36:42.120 -> 36:43.680] from the person that serves the lunch.
[36:43.680 -> 36:48.280] Everyone, I think, not just in football, but but in life everyone should be able to add to a culture
[36:48.280 -> 36:52.920] I think so too. Clive Woodward used to talk about it that the trouble is when you're a head coach
[36:52.920 -> 36:58.560] Everyone tries harder in the gym. Everyone runs a bit faster. Yeah, so you know the question is what's happening when you're not in the gym
[36:58.560 -> 37:01.360] It's a very good point. It's a very good point, but the
[37:02.080 -> 37:04.080] at clubs they tend to
[37:08.000 -> 37:10.000] Have sort of created feeling like okay, you are a football player, you should stick to playing football.
[37:10.000 -> 37:14.000] Well, I am more of the type of guy, even the kid man,
[37:14.000 -> 37:18.000] his opinion, I would like to know, you know, especially him,
[37:18.000 -> 37:20.000] because he's right in the middle of that team.
[37:20.000 -> 37:28.120] What is the reason why some presidents or people in higher functions behave like that?
[37:28.120 -> 37:29.780] And the only reason I can come up with
[37:29.780 -> 37:33.940] is that they're trying to protect their own position.
[37:35.940 -> 37:36.780] Is that big?
[37:36.780 -> 37:38.260] Is that a big way of thinking?
[37:38.260 -> 37:39.820] No, of course not.
[37:39.820 -> 37:41.720] And that should change, in my opinion.
[37:41.720 -> 37:43.760] You should, because you're all in it together.
[37:43.760 -> 37:47.760] And in a smaller version, like when it was mid-20s,
[37:49.320 -> 37:53.320] I just realized, because early days I was like,
[37:53.320 -> 37:57.200] yeah, okay, this is my position, I have to try to play,
[37:57.200 -> 38:00.200] and I don't really talk to the manager.
[38:00.200 -> 38:03.200] And then at one point I was talking to Arsene,
[38:03.200 -> 38:05.880] but first I was scared to talk to him. And then at one point I realized, like Arsene, at first I was scared to talk to him.
[38:05.880 -> 38:09.280] And then at one point I realized, like, no, no, no, hang on.
[38:09.280 -> 38:11.800] So we are this team, we have the coach,
[38:11.800 -> 38:14.520] he has his staff, he has the medical staff,
[38:14.520 -> 38:17.400] he has Mr. Dean in the first couple of years around.
[38:17.400 -> 38:18.920] I said, we should all work together,
[38:18.920 -> 38:21.360] so I should really start opening up to the coach
[38:21.360 -> 38:23.680] because we have to, so we are working together
[38:23.680 -> 38:26.260] on the same target, so why, there's no reason
[38:26.260 -> 38:28.260] for me to be scared of the coach,
[38:28.260 -> 38:30.140] why should I be scared of him?
[38:30.140 -> 38:31.560] So that was the moment where I realized,
[38:31.560 -> 38:33.280] like, okay, hang on, you know,
[38:33.280 -> 38:34.560] I will just ask him questions,
[38:34.560 -> 38:36.660] I will just talk to him, like.
[38:36.660 -> 38:38.560] It's almost like you realize that your job
[38:38.560 -> 38:40.320] is more than just doing your job.
[38:40.320 -> 38:41.520] Exactly, exactly.
[38:41.520 -> 38:43.040] And this is actually a common theme, I think,
[38:43.040 -> 38:45.000] with the conversation we've had with Robin.
[38:45.000 -> 38:51.000] Whether it's writing down notes, whether it's going and seeing Arsene Wenger about the future of the football club,
[38:51.000 -> 38:59.000] whether it is taking on board criticism from Louis van Gaal that you're going to leave Man United and try to retain your place there.
[38:59.000 -> 39:08.960] The recurring theme I think is that there was a moment in your career where you realised you have to take the responsibility. No one else is going to run your career for you.
[39:08.960 -> 39:16.800] Yes. And that is what I did when I was about 24, 25, halfway. And I actually had this chat
[39:16.800 -> 39:26.320] last week, funny enough, seriously, with my son. So my son plays at Feyenoord, he played against Ajax under-14.
[39:26.320 -> 39:29.000] He was on the bench, he didn't play.
[39:29.000 -> 39:34.640] So in the car on the way back, he was like a bit moody, disappointed,
[39:34.640 -> 39:39.760] complaining a little bit about others, about the coach, etc.
[39:39.760 -> 39:45.400] And then I said, yeah, I said, but Shaquille, I said, you sound like a loser, you know,
[39:45.400 -> 39:48.100] if you talk like this in a way,
[39:48.100 -> 39:49.800] you sound like you lost.
[39:49.800 -> 39:52.040] I said, you are blaming him, you're blaming her,
[39:52.040 -> 39:53.840] you're blaming this, you're blaming everything.
[39:53.840 -> 39:56.920] I said, but I don't hear one single thing about yourself.
[39:56.920 -> 40:00.280] I said, winners, I said, they take control,
[40:00.280 -> 40:01.200] and they blame themselves,
[40:01.200 -> 40:04.120] and they look where they can improve, yeah?
[40:04.120 -> 40:07.680] And this is what you should be thinking about.
[40:07.680 -> 40:10.100] So I didn't tell him what he should think about.
[40:10.100 -> 40:12.820] You should ask yourself the question,
[40:12.820 -> 40:15.360] are you a loser or are you a winner?
[40:15.360 -> 40:16.700] I said, for me it doesn't matter.
[40:16.700 -> 40:18.740] I said, because I'm your dad,
[40:18.740 -> 40:21.940] the only job I have and your mom has
[40:21.940 -> 40:24.120] is when you're 20 that you're a good boy,
[40:24.120 -> 40:25.620] that you're ready for life.
[40:25.620 -> 40:26.960] You know, you can make your mistakes,
[40:26.960 -> 40:28.280] you can do what you want.
[40:28.280 -> 40:31.160] I love you for the same amount.
[40:31.160 -> 40:32.380] It doesn't matter for me if you make it
[40:32.380 -> 40:34.080] as a football player or not.
[40:34.080 -> 40:37.520] I said, but you say that this is your passion,
[40:37.520 -> 40:40.680] so you should take control of your life
[40:40.680 -> 40:43.720] and stop complaining, because it sounds like a loser.
[40:43.720 -> 40:44.800] I said, then I don't mind.
[40:44.800 -> 40:46.560] If you want to be a loser, be a loser.
[40:46.560 -> 40:48.000] I still love you as much.
[40:48.000 -> 40:50.280] I said, it doesn't matter for me.
[40:50.280 -> 40:52.120] I said, but if you want to be a winner,
[40:52.120 -> 40:53.520] take control of your life
[40:53.520 -> 40:56.120] and stop complaining about others.
[40:56.120 -> 40:58.480] And then I watched him train the next morning.
[40:58.480 -> 40:59.800] My wife said, where are you going?
[40:59.800 -> 41:02.960] I said, I'm gonna watch this session.
[41:02.960 -> 41:03.960] Two days later, actually,
[41:03.960 -> 41:07.840] because they played on Saturday and Monday morning. So I'm there sitting cold
[41:08.880 -> 41:14.340] Hoodie on I'm looking and I see this tiger training running working
[41:15.060 -> 41:20.720] And I was like, ah, okay. Okay. He realized he has to take control of his life. He's 13
[41:21.640 -> 41:23.640] That's the podcast right there by the way
[41:23.640 -> 41:27.000] Isn't it? That is it That That is everything high performance podcast is about.
[41:27.000 -> 41:32.800] Sorrento advice and everything but did anyone ever have that conversation with you?
[41:32.800 -> 41:41.240] Well in like bits and pieces over the years and what I liked about
[41:41.240 -> 41:45.360] for example Arsene is that he never really judged me.
[41:45.360 -> 41:48.920] It was almost like a parent, in a way.
[41:48.920 -> 41:52.680] Because my son, it doesn't help if you judge people
[41:52.680 -> 41:54.200] constantly, if you tell them off,
[41:54.200 -> 41:56.360] and if you say, you have to do this.
[41:56.360 -> 41:57.680] It doesn't work like that.
[41:57.680 -> 42:00.320] It's their process, you have to respect their process,
[42:00.320 -> 42:04.800] of your kids, or your friends, and you can advise them,
[42:04.800 -> 42:07.880] you can guide them for a certain way, but in the end, they have to make their mistakes. van je kinderen of je vrienden en je kunt ze aanleiden, je kunt ze beperken op een bepaalde manier.
[42:07.880 -> 42:14.000] Maar in het einde moeten ze hun fouten maken, ze zullen hun fouten maken, laat ze het doen en dan beslissen ze wat ze ermee doen.
[42:14.000 -> 42:18.600] Maar soms is het goed om ze een beperking te geven, maar Assen ook.
[42:18.600 -> 42:22.160] Assen zei, waarom ben je niet een topspeler? Je bent nog steeds geen topspeler.
[42:22.160 -> 42:24.400] Ik zei, oké vertel me waarom ik geen topspeler ben.
[42:24.400 -> 42:28.680] Nee, ik vertel je niet, je moet het zelf uitvinden. top player you still not a top player I said okay tell me why I'm not a top player no I'm not telling you you have to find out yourself you know so I had
[42:28.680 -> 42:32.360] conversations like that he said you have to ask yourself the right the right
[42:32.360 -> 42:36.560] questions he said he said look around you he said he saw all these top players
[42:36.560 -> 42:42.760] but you're not one of them really yeah and your reaction can go two ways you
[42:42.760 -> 42:47.580] can either deal with that and make make yourself a top player or that can break some people
[42:47.580 -> 42:53.680] Yeah, and then I started to look at Perez how he played look at young Berk how he made his runs look at Dennis
[42:53.680 -> 42:55.680] Look at Jerry look at Vieira
[42:56.800 -> 43:01.760] He's right. He's right. I'm so far off. You know these guys are on such a level
[43:02.360 -> 43:04.960] That's where I want to go, but he was not
[43:07.320 -> 43:08.160] Forcing me into it. You know? You had to find the answers.
[43:08.160 -> 43:09.600] I had to find the answers myself.
[43:09.600 -> 43:10.900] Isn't that the link coaching?
[43:10.900 -> 43:12.800] Isn't that the art of great coaching?
[43:12.800 -> 43:13.640] I think so too.
[43:13.640 -> 43:15.000] To pose a question and then let you answer it.
[43:15.000 -> 43:15.960] Yeah, exactly.
[43:15.960 -> 43:17.800] But that is a perfect way because you have to feel it.
[43:17.800 -> 43:19.920] If you see it or if you hear it,
[43:19.920 -> 43:21.280] okay, sometimes it can be enough,
[43:21.280 -> 43:22.460] but most times it's not enough.
[43:22.460 -> 43:23.600] You have to feel it.
[43:23.600 -> 43:25.880] You have to find out yourself. Along the way, you can make enough, but most times it's not enough. You have to feel it, you have to find out yourself.
[43:25.880 -> 43:28.140] And along the way, you can make mistakes,
[43:28.140 -> 43:29.800] you can struggle, you can,
[43:29.800 -> 43:33.100] but in the end, you decide if you wanna be a winner
[43:33.100 -> 43:35.080] or a loser, it's your decision.
[43:35.080 -> 43:37.600] Right, we're gonna finish with some quickfire questions.
[43:37.600 -> 43:38.440] Okay.
[43:38.440 -> 43:41.880] What is the absolutely unacceptable behavior
[43:41.880 -> 43:43.680] that you just don't tolerate?
[43:43.680 -> 43:46.920] What's the one thing that really winds you up?
[43:46.920 -> 43:50.420] Well, I think as a person, it defines you,
[43:51.260 -> 43:55.780] how you behave towards people you don't think you need.
[43:55.780 -> 43:58.340] You know, I think that is what define,
[43:58.340 -> 44:01.000] that is the status of a person, in my opinion.
[44:01.000 -> 44:02.720] So, for example, if you're in a restaurant
[44:02.720 -> 44:08.600] and you're arrogant towards the waitress, for example to the people who help you and you're one of
[44:08.600 -> 44:13.440] them then I don't think you're a good person you know especially towards the
[44:13.440 -> 44:17.760] people who you don't tend to need you know if you're good guy just be good
[44:17.760 -> 44:21.840] because you're good not because you think you might need someone or so what
[44:21.840 -> 44:27.120] would you say Robin are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and people around you
[44:27.120 -> 44:29.160] have to buy into?
[44:29.160 -> 44:31.000] You have to be polite.
[44:32.380 -> 44:34.780] You have to have manners.
[44:34.780 -> 44:37.280] And that is what I tell my kids as well.
[44:37.280 -> 44:39.320] But this is quick fire, it's not really going well.
[44:39.320 -> 44:40.160] It's quick fire.
[44:40.160 -> 44:42.000] So what are the three?
[44:43.940 -> 44:48.640] Okay, politeness, manners,, madness and desire to achieve.
[44:48.640 -> 44:53.280] What advice would you give to a teenage Robin Van Persie just starting his career?
[44:53.280 -> 44:55.280] Just relax.
[44:55.280 -> 44:57.280] Just relax, have a breather.
[44:57.280 -> 44:59.280] Enjoy it, enjoy the journey.
[44:59.280 -> 45:01.280] Enjoy the ride.
[45:01.280 -> 45:03.280] And how did you react to your greatest failure?
[45:03.280 -> 45:07.320] Well, that's a difficult question to answer quickfire, right?
[45:07.320 -> 45:08.480] What is your greatest failure?
[45:08.480 -> 45:10.240] Yeah, good question, we have to find it out first.
[45:10.240 -> 45:11.480] I have so many.
[45:13.620 -> 45:15.040] We'll come back to that one.
[45:15.040 -> 45:16.160] Are you happy?
[45:16.160 -> 45:17.080] Yes, I am.
[45:18.240 -> 45:22.080] Yeah, yeah, not perfect, but happy, yeah.
[45:22.080 -> 45:24.480] How important is legacy to you?
[45:24.480 -> 45:26.280] Yeah, important.
[45:26.280 -> 45:32.480] Important because I like the idea that I had an influence
[45:32.480 -> 45:36.400] on some people along the way, like a positive influence.
[45:36.400 -> 45:39.360] So that is some sort of legacy.
[45:39.360 -> 45:43.400] And not just related to football, but this is related to life, okay?
[45:43.400 -> 45:47.200] What is your one golden rule to living a high-performance life?
[45:48.440 -> 45:50.720] Try to live in one world
[45:51.960 -> 45:55.260] That is very difficult, especially nowadays
[45:56.640 -> 45:58.440] distractions all over the place
[45:58.440 -> 46:04.320] but try to live that world what you choose for then you're able to
[46:06.000 -> 46:12.320] compete at the highest level, Because you tend to mix it up and to be the best, for example,
[46:12.320 -> 46:16.560] player you can be. And then there's a nice party there as well and let's
[46:16.560 -> 46:19.520] go to the party and let's do this and let's do that. You try to live in five,
[46:19.520 -> 46:27.000] six worlds. Try to, especially during your prime time, during your career, try to live in one.
[46:27.000 -> 46:29.500] It comes back to taking responsibility, doesn't it?
[46:29.500 -> 46:30.500] Yeah, exactly.
[46:30.500 -> 46:35.500] Have you worked out your greatest failure yet? Maybe you just didn't have one, man.
[46:35.500 -> 46:40.500] Well, let's imagine your son fails, yeah? What would you say to him once he's failed
[46:40.500 -> 46:44.500] at something? What's the best way to react to that moment? Because I'm a real firm believer
[46:44.500 -> 46:45.800] that failure is healthy.
[46:45.800 -> 46:47.040] Failure is a good thing.
[46:47.040 -> 46:50.720] Yeah, and failure, you should make mistakes.
[46:50.720 -> 46:52.140] I'm telling my kids as well,
[46:52.140 -> 46:54.840] and we are trying to raise them very openly,
[46:54.840 -> 46:56.420] and we're trying to
[47:00.280 -> 47:03.440] sort of send them the message that they can make mistakes,
[47:03.440 -> 47:07.360] can fail, but whatever they you know, whatever they do,
[47:07.360 -> 47:10.680] and my daughter, she rides a horse now five times a week,
[47:10.680 -> 47:12.200] and she's really serious about it.
[47:12.200 -> 47:13.760] I said, okay, I said, you can fail,
[47:13.760 -> 47:15.720] you can even fell off the horse.
[47:15.720 -> 47:17.280] You can fall off, it's fine,
[47:17.280 -> 47:19.960] but once you found your passion,
[47:22.000 -> 47:26.300] do your best, do your best, your maximum, give your maximum,
[47:26.300 -> 47:29.120] whatever that is, then it's always fine, you know?
[47:29.120 -> 47:31.540] And then you can fail, or you can fall off
[47:31.540 -> 47:35.600] as many times as you want, but do your best.
[47:35.600 -> 47:37.260] Brilliant, do you know what, that conversation
[47:37.260 -> 47:39.040] was exactly what I hoped it would be.
[47:39.040 -> 47:40.820] I really liked it, thank you very much.
[47:40.820 -> 47:42.660] Top man. Thanks, mate.
[47:44.380 -> 47:47.320] Well, Damien, Jay, what stood out for you?
[47:47.320 -> 47:49.840] Just his self-awareness, his serving honesty,
[47:49.840 -> 47:52.000] both with himself and with other people around him,
[47:52.000 -> 47:54.560] which I imagine can be quite difficult
[47:54.560 -> 47:57.240] for people to hear occasionally,
[47:57.240 -> 48:00.560] but there's a transparency to what he was saying.
[48:00.560 -> 48:03.480] I like the fact that he's so honest.
[48:05.340 -> 48:06.120] He sort of
[48:08.600 -> 48:09.480] Talks really clearly about when he wasn't
[48:14.740 -> 48:16.540] In the right place mentally like when he was a young lad and he struggled to kind of control his own temper and his own emotions to compare a
[48:16.540 -> 48:21.680] Young guy who got wound up on the football field to the point where it impacted his performances and exhausted him
[48:22.000 -> 48:24.680] Compare that to a guy in his mid to late 20s who?
[48:24.000 -> 48:28.100] his performances and exhausted him. Compare that to a guy in his mid to late 20s who went into the office of one of the most famous football managers we've
[48:28.100 -> 48:32.320] ever had in English football and gave him his seven points to improve the
[48:32.320 -> 48:36.640] football club. It comes back to that conversation about responsibility once
[48:36.640 -> 48:41.160] again and also someone who had got himself into a place of such confidence
[48:41.160 -> 48:45.400] that he felt he was able to do that. Yeah, but do it constructively.
[48:45.400 -> 48:47.360] But it tells you also about football where they go,
[48:47.360 -> 48:50.240] oh he's a footballer, he's just a player, we can't listen to him.
[48:50.240 -> 48:53.680] You know, maybe that's where things go wrong in the game.
[48:53.680 -> 48:58.640] Yeah, just, but again one of Robin's key messages was about that curiosity.
[48:58.640 -> 49:03.120] Keep asking, keep inquiring, don't just accept your role,
[49:03.120 -> 49:08.640] find out more, challenge. I look forward to seeing whether young Van Persie makes it in the game, right?
[49:08.640 -> 49:11.760] He's been given some pretty strident advice.
[49:11.760 -> 49:15.240] Hasn't he? But no, that was really interesting, everything I hoped it would be.
[49:15.240 -> 49:16.240] Yeah, phenomenal.
[49:16.240 -> 49:23.680] Well it's not often you get big names like Robin Van Persie talking like that, is it?
[49:23.680 -> 49:25.920] That was pretty special. If you enjoyed it
[49:25.920 -> 49:31.200] I'd love it if you would subscribe if you don't already. Even better if you can leave a review so
[49:31.200 -> 49:35.440] other people know what the High Performance Podcast is all about. I know life's busy but
[49:35.440 -> 49:46.000] if you can just spare two minutes I'd be so grateful. Thanks so much to Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio and do keep an eye out across social media for details of the next episode.
[49:46.000 -> 49:47.000] For now, thanks a lot.
[50:03.810 -> 50:06.970] Bye!