E54 - James Timpson: How generosity leads to wealth

James Timpson is the CEO of Timpson, a business that has been in his family for over 150 years. James helped grow Timpson to over 2100 shops, and developed several innovative ways to run the business at a time when traditional High Street retailing has suffered.

The key to the growth of the business has been the culture that James has pioneered, based on trust and kindness. Employee benefits such as free holiday homes, a Dreams Come True scheme, weekly Lotteries and mental health support has ensured Timpson has been one of the UK’s best companies to work.

James pioneered the recruitment of ex-offenders, to the extent that Timpson now employs over 600 prison leavers (this is over 10% of the Company). 

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**Navigating Cultural Transformation: Key Insights from James Timpson**

1. **The Essence of High Performance:**

- For James Timpson, high performance is about striving to be the best in everything the company does, even the subtle aspects that often go unnoticed.
- The ultimate goal is to create a faultless business where every shop is better than any other, and every colleague is happier than anyone else's.

2. **Emotional Intelligence and Empathy:**

- Timpson emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence in leadership.
- He believes in being sensitive to how people feel, creating a culture where individuals feel good about their work and their interactions with colleagues and customers.

3. **Upside-Down Management:**

- Timpson's unique management approach, which he terms "upside-down management," is based on trust and empowerment.
- Colleagues are given the freedom to make decisions, innovate, and take risks, fostering a sense of ownership and responsibility.
- This approach has resulted in exceptional performance and loyalty among Timpson's employees.

4. **Building a Family Culture:**

- Timpson draws inspiration from his upbringing in a fostering family, where he witnessed the potential of individuals who had faced challenges.
- He believes in providing opportunities for people from diverse backgrounds, recognizing that everyone has the potential to succeed given the right support.
- Timpson's emphasis on creating a family-like culture has led to high levels of employee engagement and retention.

5. **Empowerment and Trust:**

- Timpson believes that trusting people leads to better outcomes and increased loyalty.
- He provides his colleagues with the freedom to run their shops as they see fit, allowing them to be innovative and responsive to customer needs.
- This trust-based approach has resulted in exceptional customer service and profitability for Timpson's businesses.

6. **Selective Hiring:**

- Timpson emphasizes the importance of personality and cultural fit in the hiring process.
- He seeks individuals who are fun, interesting, engaging, and sparky, rather than those with impressive CVs.
- This approach ensures that new hires align with Timpson's values and contribute positively to the company culture.

7. **Kindness and Compassion:**

- Timpson believes in treating people with kindness, even when they need to be let go.
- He provides support and guidance to help individuals find happiness elsewhere if they are not a good fit for Timpson's culture.
- This compassionate approach has earned Timpson respect and appreciation from both current and former employees.

8. **Happy Index:**

- Timpson measures the effectiveness of his area managers based on a single question in the annual colleague satisfaction survey: "On a scale of one to ten, how happy are you with your area manager or your leader?"
- This metric reflects Timpson's belief that the role of a leader is to be the best boss their colleagues have ever had.
- Area managers who consistently score high on the Happy Index demonstrate their ability to create a positive and supportive work environment.

9. **Cultural Transformation Challenges:**

- When acquiring new businesses, Timpson acknowledges that cultural change can take up to five years to fully integrate.
- He emphasizes the importance of patience and persistence in instilling the Timpson culture in acquired organizations.
- Timpson's success in transforming acquired businesses demonstrates his commitment to building a strong and cohesive culture across the entire company.

10. **Legacy and Impact:**

- Timpson hopes to leave a legacy of kindness and compassion in the business world.
- He believes that businesses should be a force for good in society and that profits should not be the sole measure of success.
- Timpson's focus on creating a positive impact on his employees, customers, and the community sets an inspiring example for other business leaders.

**Building a Culture of Trust and Kindness: The Timpson Story**

* James Timpson, CEO of Timpson, emphasizes the significance of fostering a culture of trust and kindness within the organization.
* Timpson's approach to employee benefits, including free holiday homes, a Dreams Come True scheme, weekly lotteries, and mental health support, has made it one of the UK's best companies to work for.
* Timpson's innovative approach to recruitment includes employing ex-offenders, with over 600 prison leavers currently employed by the company.

**The Importance of Communication and Transparency:**

* Timpson stresses the importance of clear and consistent communication in building a strong company culture.
* He emphasizes the need to avoid using time clocks and to engage in open dialogue with employees to foster trust.
* Timpson highlights the effectiveness of utilizing social media to share the company's culture and values with a wider audience.

**Prioritizing Employee Well-being:**

* Timpson believes that investing in employee benefits beyond wages and bonuses is essential for creating a positive work environment.
* He shares examples of Timpson's unique benefits, such as extra days off for birthdays, pet bereavement, becoming a grandparent, and children's first day at school.
* The company also offers holiday homes, scratch cards, celebration events, and a lottery where someone wins a grand every week.

**The Power of Positive Reinforcement:**

* Timpson shares the positive feedback he has received on social media regarding Timpson's employee-centric approach.
* He emphasizes the importance of making customers aware of the company's values and commitment to its employees.
* Timpson believes that this approach not only enhances customer satisfaction but also helps attract talented individuals to the company.

**Building a Sustainable and Ethical Business:**

* Timpson highlights the company's commitment to paying all taxes and avoiding unethical schemes.
* He believes that customers appreciate the company's transparency and ethical approach to business.
* Timpson acknowledges that some customers may initially perceive Timpson's approach as expensive, but he emphasizes that it ultimately leads to increased profitability.

**The Importance of Family and Succession Planning:**

* Timpson discusses the involvement of his family in the business and the importance of aligning values and goals among family members.
* He emphasizes the need for a strong senior team and the value of seeking advice and learning from others.
* Timpson highlights the importance of putting plans in place to ensure the company's culture and values are preserved in the future.

**Parenting and Instilling Compassion in Children:**

* Timpson discusses the importance of open communication, honesty, and allowing children to make mistakes.
* He emphasizes the role of family in shaping children's values and the importance of instilling compassion through exposure to the company's culture and values.
* Timpson shares his approach to teaching his children about work ethic and the importance of financial responsibility.

**The Importance of Failure and Resilience:**

* Timpson acknowledges that failure is a natural part of business and emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes.
* He encourages open and honest discussions about failures and the need to support employees through challenging times.
* Timpson believes that resilience is a key trait for success and that it can be fostered through open communication and a supportive work environment.

**The Value of Good News and Positive Reinforcement:**

* Timpson shares the story of how his father started a newsletter featuring positive news from employees, which became a tradition within the company.
* He emphasizes the importance of sharing good news and positive stories to counterbalance negative news and challenges.
* Timpson believes that a focus on positivity helps create a positive and motivated work environment.

**Avoiding Over-Promotion and Recognizing Individual Strengths:**

* Timpson acknowledges the risk of over-promoting employees and the importance of recognizing individual strengths and limitations.
* He emphasizes the need to develop employees who will challenge and provide diverse perspectives.
* Timpson shares his approach to dealing with situations where employees may have been over-promoted and the importance of handling such situations with care and sensitivity.

**Dealing with Failure and Personal Resilience:**

* Timpson reflects on the challenges faced by Timpson during the COVID-19 pandemic and the importance of maintaining a positive message during difficult times.
* He emphasizes the need for honesty and transparency in communicating challenges and providing a vision for overcoming them.
* Timpson draws parallels between the role of a business leader and that of a sports coach, highlighting the importance of resilience, adaptability, and the ability to inspire and motivate others.

**The Importance of Continuous Growth and Innovation:**

* Timpson emphasizes the importance of continuous growth and innovation to keep a business healthy and dynamic.
* He believes that stagnation can lead to complacency and a lack of motivation among employees.
* Timpson shares his approach to taking calculated risks, experimenting with new ideas, and diversifying the business to stay ahead of the competition.

**The Role of Values in Business Deals and Relationships:**

* Timpson highlights the importance of aligning values with business partners and suppliers.
* He shares his experience of walking away from deals with individuals he did not trust or whose values did not align with Timpson's.
* Timpson believes that long-term success and sustainability are more important than short-term gains.

# Summary of the High-Performance Podcast Episode: James Timpson - The Key to Success is Kindness and Trust

James Timpson, the CEO of Timpson, a family-run business with over 150 years of history and 2100 shops, shares his insights on building a successful and people-centric company.

## Key Points:

1. **Culture and People:**
- Timpson's success is attributed to its focus on culture and people rather than solely on financial gains.
- Trust and kindness are the cornerstones of the company's culture, fostering employee loyalty and motivation.
- Employee benefits like free holiday homes, a Dreams Come True scheme, weekly lotteries, and mental health support make Timpson one of the UK's best companies to work for.

2. **Recruitment of Ex-Offenders:**
- Timpson has pioneered the recruitment of ex-offenders, with over 600 prison leavers employed, comprising 10% of the company's workforce.
- This initiative provides opportunities for rehabilitation and integration into society, reducing recidivism rates.

3. **Financial Conservatism:**
- Timpson operates conservatively, maintaining a healthy financial position with money in the bank and avoiding excessive debt.
- Board meetings prioritize discussions on culture, values, and direction of travel rather than solely focusing on financial matters.

4. **Customer-Centric Approach:**
- Timpson offers free services and repairs, recognizing that these gestures create customer loyalty and positive word-of-mouth.
- The company believes that giving more than receiving ultimately leads to increased profitability.

5. **Empowerment and Trust:**
- Timpson empowers employees to make decisions and take ownership of their roles.
- Trust is a fundamental aspect of the company's culture, allowing employees to operate independently and solve problems effectively.

6. **Leading with Empathy:**
- Timpson emphasizes the importance of empathy and emotional connection in leadership.
- Recognizing and valuing employees' contributions fosters a positive work environment and drives success.

7. **Non-Negotiable Behaviors:**
- Timpson's non-negotiable behaviors include kindness, a positive demeanor, and motivation beyond financial incentives.
- The company seeks individuals who are passionate about their work and driven by a desire to make a difference.

8. **Advice for Young Professionals:**
- Timpson advises young professionals to ask questions, learn continuously, and take on various responsibilities.
- Embracing challenges and seeking opportunities for growth leads to personal and professional development.

9. **Golden Rule for a High-Performance Life:**
- Timpson emphasizes the importance of being organized, proactive, and driven to achieve success.
- He believes in taking initiative, completing tasks efficiently, and maintaining a high level of energy.

10. **Key Takeaway:**
- Contrary to popular belief, success does not require ruthlessness. Kindness and empathy can coexist with ambition and achievement.

In conclusion, James Timpson's approach to business, characterized by trust, kindness, and a focus on people, has been instrumental in Timpson's growth and success. His leadership style and commitment to creating a positive work environment serve as an inspiration for entrepreneurs and business leaders seeking sustainable and ethical growth.

[00:00.000 -> 00:05.000] Hey there, welcome along to another episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[00:05.000 -> 00:10.600] I say this a lot, but honestly, please understand when I say that the conversation you're going
[00:10.600 -> 00:14.520] to hear today is with a man who has become one of my heroes.
[00:14.520 -> 00:15.840] I knew very little about him.
[00:15.840 -> 00:20.720] I knew very little about his business, but the way that he operates is the way that I
[00:20.720 -> 00:22.280] want the whole world to operate.
[00:22.280 -> 00:30.160] So please stay exactly where you are and get ready for a wonderful episode of the High Performance Podcast this week. As always, a huge thanks to
[00:30.160 -> 00:34.400] you for being involved in the podcast. The fact that you talk about it and share it on your social
[00:34.400 -> 00:39.680] media accounts, guys, is making all the difference to us. We've had an amazing number of downloads
[00:39.680 -> 00:45.240] and listens and subscribes just recently. It is really, really picking up momentum. And we're so proud of that
[00:45.240 -> 00:47.320] because the High Performance Podcast
[00:47.320 -> 00:50.500] honestly just exists only for good.
[00:50.500 -> 00:53.000] So please keep sharing that good among yourselves.
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[01:09.540 -> 01:12.240] I'm so excited for you to hear this episode.
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[01:15.920 -> 01:17.720] at the absolute center of it.
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[01:18.760 -> 01:21.500] It's time for this week's High Performance Podcast.
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[03:33.240 -> 03:41.240] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves
[03:41.240 -> 03:51.420] into the minds of some of the most successful athletes visionaries Entrepreneurs artists and business people on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets of their success now, of course
[03:51.420 -> 03:52.920] You can't do a job like this alone
[03:52.920 -> 03:59.440] Thankfully Damien Hughes professor and expert in the field of high-performing teams and cultures is my partner for these podcasts
[03:59.440 -> 04:25.840] Um, but one of my firm beliefs Damien is yw bod leadership ddiwethaf yn bod yn ddiogel ac yn hyderus i chi i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'w gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r gofyn i'r He used a lovely irreverent phrase when he described himself to me. He said he was a lucky sperm.
[04:25.840 -> 04:28.080] And I like the irreverence of it,
[04:28.080 -> 04:30.600] but I also like the sense of perspective
[04:30.600 -> 04:33.600] and also the family feel that this person
[04:33.600 -> 04:36.120] really does create within his organization.
[04:36.120 -> 04:37.920] So I'm really excited about this.
[04:37.920 -> 04:40.080] Let's get into it then and dive into a conversation
[04:40.080 -> 04:42.800] about living a high performance life as a lucky sperm
[04:42.800 -> 04:44.320] with someone whose name you may see
[04:44.320 -> 04:48.080] every time you pop to the shops or on the high street and actually I thought today I would let his
[04:48.080 -> 04:52.720] Twitter bio be the opening introduction partly because I think you should follow him because he
[04:52.720 -> 04:57.760] is really interesting on social media very honest you get a really good understanding of him and the
[04:57.760 -> 05:04.080] culture of his business you can find him at James T. Cobbler but also his Twitter bio is the perfect
[05:04.080 -> 05:05.060] introduction to him so this is what it says chief exec of Timpson group Cobbler, but also his Twitter bio is the perfect introduction to him
[05:05.060 -> 05:11.420] So this is what it says chief exec of Timpson group Cobbler prison recruiter believer in upside-down management
[05:11.860 -> 05:18.340] Colleagues not staff and being a great boss. So welcome to the high performance podcast James Timpson
[05:18.340 -> 05:23.320] Thank you very much. Nice to have you with us. Look, we'll start as we always do with the first question
[05:23.320 -> 05:26.160] What in your eyes is high performance?
[05:26.300 -> 05:33.000] What I try and do is to be the best at everything we do and a lot of those things are
[05:34.220 -> 05:38.360] quite subtle often things that you can't see it's how you feel and
[05:39.580 -> 05:45.920] What I want is to have the perfect business. And I know I'll never have the perfect business,
[05:45.920 -> 05:48.780] but what I'm trying to do every day
[05:48.780 -> 05:52.760] is to get to a position where it is faultless
[05:52.760 -> 05:57.420] and it is better than any other business can be.
[05:57.420 -> 06:00.660] And every shop I have is better than anybody else's shop.
[06:00.660 -> 06:02.560] And the colleagues I work with are the best colleagues
[06:02.560 -> 06:04.280] that anybody can get.
[06:04.280 -> 06:06.560] And they're happier than anybody else's colleagues are
[06:06.880 -> 06:12.600] we'll talk about some of the big things because as I mentioned at the top you recruit people out of prison and you're a big
[06:12.600 -> 06:13.940] advocate for
[06:13.940 -> 06:18.680] When people have served their sentence letting them live their lives again and and Tim's and help a lot of people to do that
[06:18.680 -> 06:20.000] You obviously invest in your staff
[06:20.000 -> 06:21.640] These these are sort of huge
[06:21.640 -> 06:25.320] Gestures that you make to show people the kind of business you are you believe in paying your
[06:25.320 -> 06:29.320] Taxes fairly all that sort of stuff, but I am interested in the subtle stuff
[06:29.320 -> 06:33.120] What are the little subtle things that are in your daily life?
[06:33.120 -> 06:38.120] They help you to run your business really well that perhaps we don't know. I think I'm quite an emotional person and
[06:38.880 -> 06:42.280] I I'm really sensitive to how people feel
[06:42.920 -> 06:47.080] So from when it's whether it's you you coming into my house or you know
[06:47.360 -> 06:49.760] Someone come to the office or a customer coming into our shop
[06:50.320 -> 06:53.360] it's really important to me that people feel good about it and
[06:54.980 -> 07:00.720] Emotional intelligence is something that can often be lacking in business and in lots of other areas of
[07:02.120 -> 07:03.600] performance and
[07:03.600 -> 07:07.680] For me, I don't pay Premier League wages.
[07:07.680 -> 07:08.960] We run a retail business.
[07:08.960 -> 07:10.500] We have colleagues who work in warehouses.
[07:10.500 -> 07:11.340] They're amazing people.
[07:11.340 -> 07:12.940] They work incredibly hard.
[07:12.940 -> 07:16.340] But the reason why people come to work is not just pay.
[07:16.340 -> 07:20.180] It is because there is something about our culture
[07:20.180 -> 07:22.560] that makes them want to come to work and perform,
[07:22.560 -> 07:26.380] and it makes them feel that they are part of something.
[07:26.380 -> 07:28.420] And culture is what really excites me,
[07:28.420 -> 07:30.260] partly as a business owner,
[07:30.260 -> 07:32.420] partly as someone who thinks that we can all exist
[07:32.420 -> 07:35.020] in a world where culture empowers everyone
[07:35.020 -> 07:35.860] and lifts all of us up.
[07:35.860 -> 07:37.140] So let's talk about your culture then,
[07:37.140 -> 07:38.800] upside down management.
[07:38.800 -> 07:40.840] So was this something that came from your dad
[07:40.840 -> 07:41.680] or came from you?
[07:41.680 -> 07:43.300] How did it first begin?
[07:43.300 -> 07:45.480] Sort of a combination of lots of things,
[07:45.480 -> 07:47.440] like most sort of good ideas,
[07:47.440 -> 07:49.960] it's been in a melting pot for some time.
[07:49.960 -> 07:53.580] So what happened, when I first joined the business,
[07:53.580 -> 07:56.360] it was a very different kind of business.
[07:56.360 -> 07:59.020] It was old-fashioned, my dad hadn't run it,
[07:59.020 -> 08:01.140] he'd run the shoe retail business before,
[08:01.140 -> 08:05.120] and it was run basically by retired military men and
[08:06.080 -> 08:09.400] so it's just do it at all follow the orders go home and
[08:10.280 -> 08:12.280] When I started working in the shops
[08:12.760 -> 08:19.000] I've never been one for obeying the rules, but every shop I went to I double the turnover and I'm
[08:19.480 -> 08:23.480] Not the best shoe repairer or key cutter at all. I'm enthusiastic
[08:23.480 -> 08:27.420] I can sell I can you sell, I can get people motivated.
[08:27.420 -> 08:29.080] But it's because I broke the rules
[08:29.080 -> 08:31.960] and could do whatever I wanted because I was the boss's son.
[08:31.960 -> 08:33.740] And literally every shop I went to,
[08:33.740 -> 08:35.140] I was doubling the turnover.
[08:35.140 -> 08:37.820] Because I was doing deals, I was giving stuff away for free,
[08:37.820 -> 08:39.620] I could phone the warehouse and they'd send me anything
[08:39.620 -> 08:41.060] I wanted because I was the boss's son.
[08:41.060 -> 08:42.940] And I thought, this is not right.
[08:42.940 -> 08:50.920] If I can do this, why can't everybody else? But everyone else had to bail these rules which are actually stupid rules that stopped the sales coming through
[08:50.920 -> 08:58.260] And I also read some books that had a real impact on me just about leadership and how certain companies were run
[08:58.580 -> 09:04.680] The Richard sounds business was probably the most impactful on me and Julian Richard today is one of my very close friends
[09:26.040 -> 09:26.360] yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn y ffyrdd yn the FF. yn the FF. yn the FF. yn the FF. yn the FF. yn the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the FF. in the around legend literally handwritten letter and Virtually all of them said yes
[09:28.600 -> 09:29.080] So turn up crazy early in the morning
[09:31.200 -> 09:34.620] And if you follow them around sit in their board meetings I mean by the way the people that say yes are the kind of people you want to follow around anyway
[09:34.620 -> 09:39.960] Exactly that say no you you wouldn't want to be there. Yeah. Yeah, exactly and some of the things I saw I didn't like
[09:40.360 -> 09:47.000] But generally it helped me build up this picture of what I wanted and basically it's a culture based on trust ond yn gyffredinol, mae'n helpu i fyddio'r dylunio o'r ffigurau rydw i eisiau. Yn y bôn, mae'n ddiwygio o ran ddiddordeb.
[09:47.000 -> 09:50.000] Mae'n ymwneud â gweithio â phobl rydych chi'n hoffi wir
[09:50.000 -> 09:54.000] ac rydych chi'n eu hystyried i rôl y busnes ac nid y maen nhw'n angen yr holl rhylau hyn.
[09:54.000 -> 10:00.000] Rwy'n ffasinatio o'r element busnes, James, ond rwy'n ffasinatio eich cymdeithas eich teulu
[10:00.000 -> 10:06.520] oherwydd gwybod ychydig o amgylchedd eich rhain a'r ffosteri anhygoel because knowing a little bit about your parents and the amazing fostering that
[10:06.520 -> 10:11.560] they did over over a long period of time how much of that shaped this idea of
[10:11.560 -> 10:15.880] trust and and creating this family feel that that you've obviously done at
[10:15.880 -> 10:22.640] Timpsons certainly been an important part of the this the mixing pot it's
[10:22.640 -> 10:25.560] only when you get older you really realize what you learned from it.
[10:25.560 -> 10:28.040] And, you know, I spent a lot of my life
[10:28.040 -> 10:30.480] with younger foster children than I have.
[10:30.480 -> 10:32.280] My parents never fostered kids who are older than us.
[10:32.280 -> 10:33.600] They're always younger than us.
[10:33.600 -> 10:35.900] And a lot of them were broken young people.
[10:35.900 -> 10:39.400] You know, a lot of them went on to have pretty unhappy,
[10:39.400 -> 10:40.880] unsuccessful lives, unfortunately,
[10:40.880 -> 10:42.580] even though we did our best,
[10:42.580 -> 10:44.420] but they were broken from a very early age,
[10:44.420 -> 10:46.560] very damaged young people.
[10:46.560 -> 10:49.120] But a lot of them had a spark and a personality.
[10:49.120 -> 10:51.920] And I always just thought, you know, they're no different from me.
[10:51.920 -> 10:53.560] I was just lucky.
[10:53.560 -> 10:59.240] And so I think it's helped me when I work in the shops and I work alongside my colleagues
[10:59.240 -> 11:05.360] to understand why people behave as they do and what are the trigger points and what what can
[11:05.360 -> 11:11.000] you do to help people really perform who have often never had an opportunity to
[11:11.000 -> 11:15.000] perform and be themselves before but when you get it right they can be
[11:15.000 -> 11:19.560] absolutely amazing and I have lots of colleagues who have been through the
[11:19.560 -> 11:22.840] care system have been through the prison system have been through lots of you
[11:22.840 -> 11:28.320] know I've had lots of different challenges in life and the job with us is the first time they feel successful and to me
[11:28.320 -> 11:34.320] That's that's a privilege of being a boss. I've seen these people when they join you, you know, they they are reserved
[11:34.520 -> 11:36.520] You know, they can't look you in the eye
[11:36.520 -> 11:37.360] they
[11:37.360 -> 11:38.960] are probably on the
[11:38.960 -> 11:43.040] sixth job of the year so far and you see them a year later and they're a manager and they're
[11:43.200 -> 11:46.000] proudly wearing all their badges that they've managed to get and the sales figures are good and the and the shop looks good and ym mhob dydd. Yn ystod y blynyddoedd, rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf o'r dydd hwnnw.
[11:46.000 -> 11:48.000] Ac rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf
[11:48.000 -> 11:50.000] yn y blynyddoedd.
[11:50.000 -> 11:52.000] Ac rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf
[11:52.000 -> 11:54.000] yn y blynyddoedd.
[11:54.000 -> 11:56.000] Ac rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf
[11:56.000 -> 11:58.000] yn y blynyddoedd.
[11:58.000 -> 12:00.000] Ac rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf
[12:00.000 -> 12:02.000] yn y blynyddoedd.
[12:02.000 -> 12:04.000] Ac rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf
[12:04.000 -> 12:06.380] yn y blynyddoedd. Ac rydyn ni'n gweld nhw'n ymdrechion fwyaf Turning up the rules and then you've got this family experience of seeing that spark a potential in people
[12:06.660 -> 12:07.520] What was it?
[12:07.520 -> 12:12.160] there was a catalyst for you then to start to bring those two elements together and
[12:12.660 -> 12:18.280] Almost codify it for the wider business. I think probably because I'm commercial and competitive and
[12:19.120 -> 12:23.120] I want to find the best people and to get them to perform and
[12:23.920 -> 12:25.840] When you realize you can
[12:25.840 -> 12:32.200] Find these people who no, no, no one else has found before and they become like exceptionally talented people
[12:32.200 -> 12:38.280] I have probably have three or four colleagues who even now what's that means like six seven times a day and they're either really really high
[12:38.280 -> 12:41.560] Or they need or they need a lot of support and I'm okay with that
[12:42.040 -> 12:49.960] That to me is part of leadership about helping people who often extreme people people who have you know challenges with
[12:49.960 -> 12:54.880] mental health or anything but I love helping them get up to where they want
[12:54.880 -> 12:57.760] to be but we have four and a half thousand colleagues so you get a real
[12:57.760 -> 13:03.840] mix of talent and background and challenges but it's about how how can
[13:03.840 -> 13:08.000] you find a way for them to be their best.
[13:08.000 -> 13:14.000] And I think lots of organizations just try and dumb it down, just do this, like everyone else has to do, and go home.
[13:14.000 -> 13:16.000] And that's not the kind of thing I like.
[13:16.000 -> 13:21.000] I think though that some people will look at the way you run your business and how you empower people,
[13:21.000 -> 13:26.280] and they'll go, well, we're only a small business, so we can't do that yet because we haven't got the turnover
[13:26.280 -> 13:28.840] or the size or the scale of Timpsons.
[13:28.840 -> 13:30.600] And then big businesses will look at what you're doing
[13:30.600 -> 13:32.360] and go, well, we can't do that,
[13:32.360 -> 13:33.480] because we're such a huge business,
[13:33.480 -> 13:34.560] we've got thousands of staff,
[13:34.560 -> 13:37.760] we can't possibly instill a culture like Timpsons have got.
[13:37.760 -> 13:39.740] So often people will look for the excuses
[13:39.740 -> 13:40.960] not to do something.
[13:40.960 -> 13:42.780] But I think what you're basically saying is,
[13:42.780 -> 13:44.940] regardless of the size of your business,
[13:44.940 -> 13:48.520] this is a culture that doesn't judge people,
[13:48.520 -> 13:50.880] it empowers people, and that is the kind of like,
[13:50.880 -> 13:54.120] that's the secret superpower to Timpson's success.
[13:54.120 -> 13:57.120] Yeah, and it amazes me how many organizations
[13:57.120 -> 14:00.240] try and control everybody and have loads of rules in place.
[14:00.240 -> 14:02.560] And I can see how it starts off,
[14:02.560 -> 14:04.520] but it's all for a good reason,
[14:04.520 -> 14:05.600] because something goes wrong.
[14:05.600 -> 14:06.560] So when something goes wrong,
[14:06.560 -> 14:09.560] you've got to have a guideline
[14:09.560 -> 14:11.560] to stop it going wrong again.
[14:11.560 -> 14:13.200] But then a guideline becomes a rule,
[14:13.200 -> 14:16.160] and then there's rules and rules and rules and rules.
[14:16.160 -> 14:17.720] And then you have an organization
[14:17.720 -> 14:19.200] where people just turn up,
[14:19.200 -> 14:20.560] and just, as long as you follow the rules,
[14:20.560 -> 14:22.320] you get paid and you can go home.
[14:22.320 -> 14:26.880] But those rules stop you being innovative they stop people being
[14:27.440 -> 14:30.360] Themselves and that ends up costing you way more money
[14:30.480 -> 14:38.400] So I'm really commercial and I know in our business the best way to make as much profit as we can is to trust
[14:38.400 -> 14:44.520] People because then you don't need all this middle management in place to check and stop people doing things
[14:44.520 -> 14:49.440] So we get a lot of teachers listen to this podcast because they find it really useful for working with children
[14:49.440 -> 14:51.700] We get a lot of business owners and business people as well
[14:52.360 -> 14:54.560] They will be listening to you now going. Hold on a minute
[14:55.120 -> 14:57.700] You can't run a business without rules. So
[14:58.520 -> 15:01.800] Do you run a business without rules? We have two rules
[15:01.800 -> 15:02.720] Yeah
[15:02.720 -> 15:05.160] First one is you put the money in the till which
[15:05.160 -> 15:09.020] is an essential part of retail and the other is you look the part which is the
[15:09.020 -> 15:12.680] common-sense things which is you look smart you open up the shop on time
[15:12.680 -> 15:17.440] you're nice to people you don't smoke in the shop you don't eat in the shop and
[15:17.440 -> 15:19.600] you don't have you have your friends hanging around in the shop all day
[15:19.600 -> 15:23.920] apart from that do whatever you like literally whatever you like give things
[15:23.920 -> 15:25.760] away for free order whatever stock you want,
[15:25.760 -> 15:28.400] do deals, do promotions, I don't care.
[15:28.400 -> 15:29.840] I trust you to run the shop.
[15:29.840 -> 15:31.960] So then how do people not join your business
[15:31.960 -> 15:34.140] who just sort of want to take the piss and have a laugh?
[15:34.140 -> 15:38.280] Because what you find is that when you trust people,
[15:38.280 -> 15:40.800] they want to conform.
[15:40.800 -> 15:44.860] If you give lots of people rules, they want to rebel.
[15:44.860 -> 15:50.160] So what we do is we're very very very clear on our two golden rules. So if you break our two golden rules
[15:50.680 -> 15:53.080] We're not happy. We come down pretty hard
[15:53.740 -> 15:59.400] But the rest you go for it and what we find is that creates a huge amount of loyalty
[16:00.040 -> 16:04.260] Because people are trusted and people feel that they are running quite rightly their own business
[16:04.400 -> 16:06.260] Because they can be innovative and they can do
[16:06.260 -> 16:12.860] What they like they can react to customers in whatever way they want and that gives people satisfaction
[16:13.800 -> 16:19.880] So how much freedom does someone in a Timpson store have so if you're working in the shop in Norwich?
[16:20.160 -> 16:23.360] customer comes in, you know, they want 25 keys doing and
[16:24.400 -> 16:26.400] They've only got 80 quid
[16:26.400 -> 16:27.400] in the budget.
[16:27.400 -> 16:29.920] Fine, just do it for 80 quid, even though it should have been 120 quid.
[16:29.920 -> 16:33.320] You can phone up the warehouse, order whatever you want, they won't say no, they won't say
[16:33.320 -> 16:37.520] why, even if you got it wrong, that's fine, because I know you will learn if you get it
[16:37.520 -> 16:38.520] wrong.
[16:38.520 -> 16:42.680] You can do deals, displays, you can do whatever you want.
[16:42.680 -> 16:45.280] You can decide when you're gonna take your breaks.
[16:45.280 -> 16:46.200] Doesn't matter to us.
[16:46.200 -> 16:47.800] So what is the interview process then
[16:47.800 -> 16:49.640] for making sure you get the right people in your stores
[16:49.640 -> 16:52.200] who react positively to empowerment?
[16:52.200 -> 16:54.920] Because I know there'll be business people listening to this
[16:54.920 -> 16:59.080] who think, I want these kinds of people in my business.
[16:59.080 -> 17:01.100] How do you get the right people?
[17:01.100 -> 17:03.640] Okay, so for us, CV, complete waste of time.
[17:03.640 -> 17:04.480] Right.
[17:04.480 -> 17:05.320] All we're interested in is
[17:05.320 -> 17:09.280] what's your name and what's your phone number. Literally, we don't even read it because all
[17:09.280 -> 17:14.480] we're looking for is something that you can't find on a CV, which is personality. So we
[17:14.480 -> 17:19.760] want people who are fun, interesting, engaging, sparky, quirky, a bit odd, perfect. You may
[17:19.760 -> 17:26.360] be the world's best shoe repairer or dry cleaner, but if you're miserable, lazy, dull, or moody,
[17:27.480 -> 17:28.440] we don't want you,
[17:28.440 -> 17:30.640] because colleagues don't want to work alongside you,
[17:30.640 -> 17:32.520] and you won't get our culture.
[17:32.520 -> 17:36.360] So we can train anybody to repair a watch or cut a key,
[17:36.360 -> 17:39.760] but I can't train someone to have a different personality
[17:39.760 -> 17:40.600] than they have.
[17:40.600 -> 17:42.080] So what we've learned over the years
[17:42.080 -> 17:44.040] is it's just about personality.
[17:44.040 -> 17:46.560] So if someone comes along who's worked for a competitor
[17:47.080 -> 17:50.640] Probably don't want them. I'd much prefer someone who's just left
[17:51.200 -> 17:57.360] University or has been made redundant from another job or just less they left the army or whatever who's got that spark and that's what we'll
[17:57.800 -> 18:01.160] Invest in so what do you tell us about the mr. Men recruitment?
[18:01.160 -> 18:02.720] Yeah, I call it the miss me
[18:02.720 -> 18:26.340] I've like the cartoon images and you let people do that because I think that'll be interesting for people to Mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae' Years ago the then we have a chat for about 15-20 minutes. I'm just trying to work out your personality
[18:26.340 -> 18:29.280] So I'll ask you about your hobbies or whatever and then when the interviews finished
[18:29.280 -> 18:33.440] We have a little sheet which just ticks the kind of personality that I think you are
[18:33.960 -> 18:41.480] Okay, so after you've gone up and I'll take were you happy fun interesting engaging all that sort of stuff or were you?
[18:41.960 -> 18:46.040] Bit quiet a bit disengaged and if you're in the
[18:46.040 -> 18:50.280] personality box that we like I'll offer you a job and who does those interviews
[18:50.280 -> 18:55.080] our area managers and their sort of support team do it so we do a lot of
[18:55.080 -> 18:58.920] training on how we do interviews because to us this is absolutely vital because
[18:58.920 -> 19:02.560] we want people who are nine or a ten out of ten so we want to have the right
[19:02.560 -> 19:09.800] personality and the way we describe it as a 9 or a 10 Out of 10 so in any organizations that you work in we can all spot a 1 2 3 4 or 5
[19:09.960 -> 19:14.340] Because they're just not right for us. They may be brilliant for something else, but they're not right for us
[19:14.480 -> 19:18.780] The danger zone is 6 7 & 8 because they're okay
[19:19.320 -> 19:26.460] But their best isn't good enough for us and I feel as a leader that I have a moral obligation
[19:26.460 -> 19:28.360] to make sure my fantastic colleagues
[19:28.360 -> 19:32.100] work alongside people who are as fantastic as they are.
[19:32.100 -> 19:34.200] So that's why we only want people
[19:34.200 -> 19:35.360] who are nine or a 10 out of 10.
[19:35.360 -> 19:36.340] If someone's an eight,
[19:36.340 -> 19:38.140] we'll give them every opportunity to improve
[19:38.140 -> 19:39.960] because there may be other issues behind the scenes.
[19:39.960 -> 19:41.960] There could be problems away from work.
[19:41.960 -> 19:44.020] I mean, in fact, some of our colleagues are a 10 out of 10.
[19:44.020 -> 19:47.120] Sometimes they'll go completely off the boil.
[19:47.120 -> 19:48.760] They'll have, in maybe a couple of years,
[19:48.760 -> 19:50.520] they're just not performing, not happy,
[19:50.520 -> 19:53.060] not themselves, withdrawn.
[19:53.060 -> 19:55.820] And it's often because there's a problem outside of work.
[19:55.820 -> 19:57.160] So we take it as our responsibility
[19:57.160 -> 19:59.840] to try and help them get back up there.
[19:59.840 -> 20:02.120] How ruthless though do you need to be
[20:02.120 -> 20:03.320] when people don't fit?
[20:03.320 -> 20:04.360] You know, Damien has written books
[20:04.360 -> 20:05.560] about high-performing cultures
[20:05.560 -> 20:09.080] and he uses FIFO, fit in or F off.
[20:09.080 -> 20:12.080] And I see on your website you say goodbye to drongos.
[20:12.080 -> 20:14.020] So when someone is a drongo,
[20:14.020 -> 20:15.200] how ruthless do you need to be
[20:15.200 -> 20:17.060] to make sure that the culture of Timpsons
[20:17.060 -> 20:19.200] doesn't get undermined?
[20:19.200 -> 20:21.320] Okay, the way we just sort of describe in our business,
[20:21.320 -> 20:22.160] no one ever leaves us,
[20:22.160 -> 20:23.600] they just find their happiness elsewhere
[20:23.600 -> 20:25.940] because they won't be happy within our culture
[20:25.940 -> 20:27.600] because we don't think they're right for us.
[20:27.600 -> 20:29.000] They may well be right for someone else,
[20:29.000 -> 20:30.440] but they're not right for us.
[20:30.440 -> 20:32.360] And coming back to this point I said before about,
[20:32.360 -> 20:34.160] it's a moral obligation to make sure
[20:34.160 -> 20:36.640] you only work alongside amazing people.
[20:36.640 -> 20:38.480] So it's the leader's job to make sure
[20:38.480 -> 20:39.920] that those who aren't good enough
[20:39.920 -> 20:42.920] have an opportunity to improve or they go.
[20:42.920 -> 20:45.220] But the way we do that is through kindness.
[20:45.220 -> 20:48.980] So we have bizarrely lots of colleagues who thank us
[20:48.980 -> 20:51.520] for the way they left because we've helped them leave,
[20:51.520 -> 20:53.060] we've helped them retrain,
[20:53.060 -> 20:54.540] we've given them lots of guidance and stuff,
[20:54.540 -> 20:55.960] but we're honest.
[20:55.960 -> 20:58.660] And we say, I'm afraid your best isn't good enough for us.
[20:58.660 -> 20:59.740] And I'm okay with that.
[20:59.740 -> 21:01.920] You know, I want to run an amazing business
[21:01.920 -> 21:03.660] and I want to have amazing people.
[21:03.660 -> 21:08.920] And to do that, you've got to be selective. How many staff do you have? We have four and a half thousand
[21:09.480 -> 21:12.160] This is what I can't quite get my head around yet
[21:12.400 -> 21:18.000] Four and a half thousand staff and it feels to me like at the core of what you do is kindness, right?
[21:18.000 -> 21:20.060] It's looking after your staff and empowering your staff
[21:20.580 -> 21:28.480] Almost everyone will think to run a business that size that successfully you need to be ruthless and you're proving the absolute
[21:28.960 -> 21:35.480] opposite of that in this conversation, but we're pretty tough when we need to be right, but we do it with kindness and
[21:36.400 -> 21:38.400] we do it with a
[21:39.180 -> 21:43.360] Lot of training behind the scenes so we so our area managers and our teams
[21:43.760 -> 21:45.480] Know how to do it.
[21:45.480 -> 21:47.760] An area manager for us is like the key role in the business.
[21:47.760 -> 21:51.280] They basically look after 80 to 100 colleagues
[21:51.280 -> 21:53.920] and they run 40 to 50 shops and they have a little team
[21:53.920 -> 21:56.060] around them but they are the key role.
[21:56.060 -> 21:58.320] And every year we have a thing called the Happy Index
[21:58.320 -> 22:01.540] which is a colleague satisfaction survey.
[22:01.540 -> 22:03.400] And lots of businesses, you probably have them
[22:03.400 -> 22:06.480] in various things, hundreds of questions. How do you feel about this?
[22:06.480 -> 22:09.160] How do you feel about that all this sort of stuff and we just have one question
[22:09.160 -> 22:13.360] Which is on a scale of one to ten how happy are you with your area manager or your leader?
[22:13.360 -> 22:18.320] And that is the only way we judge how the area manager performs each year
[22:18.640 -> 22:22.600] I'm not really interested in how much profit their shops make I'm not interested in their sales
[22:22.600 -> 22:25.900] I'm not interested in their margins or anything like that.
[22:25.900 -> 22:27.580] I'm interested in the happy index
[22:27.580 -> 22:30.200] because it's their job to be the best boss
[22:30.200 -> 22:32.060] their colleagues have ever had.
[22:32.060 -> 22:34.180] And I mean, we have, last year,
[22:34.180 -> 22:39.100] we had nine area managers score over 95%,
[22:39.100 -> 22:40.020] which is pretty good.
[22:40.020 -> 22:41.220] And they're tough.
[22:41.220 -> 22:43.600] These aren't men and women who are pushovers.
[22:43.600 -> 22:45.680] They are direct and kind, but they know that the motivation for them ac maen nhw'n anodd. Dyma ddynion a dynion sy'n gynllunio, maen nhw'n ddi-rych a'n ddiddorol,
[22:45.680 -> 22:48.960] ond maen nhw'n gwybod bod y cymorth iddo
[22:48.960 -> 22:50.960] yw eu bod yn rhaid iddo gynnal y Deyrnas Gwych,
[22:50.960 -> 22:54.560] ac i wneud hynny, mae angen i ni roi'r holl dyluniau i fod yn ddiddorol.
[22:54.560 -> 22:59.360] Felly mae'r rheolaethau yma yn ymwneud â'r holl ddiwylliant.
[22:59.360 -> 23:03.480] Pa mor bwysig yw eu bod yn dod i mewn drwy'r fflwr ymdrech?
[23:03.480 -> 23:09.100] Mae pob rheolaeth yn dechrau gweithio fel gweithwyr Is it that they come up through the through the shop floor? Every area manager started off working as an apprentice and comes up because they've got to get the culture
[23:09.100 -> 23:11.100] Yeah, whenever we do an acquisition
[23:11.300 -> 23:16.580] So we've over the last few years we bought for example, like Johnson's cleaners and we took on their area managers
[23:16.580 -> 23:21.380] We have four of their area managers who are now area managers for us and they're doing really well
[23:21.740 -> 23:27.280] but it takes culture change takes five years so people really get it and
[23:27.680 -> 23:32.760] We're sort of four years in and if I if I was to talk to them now in front of you
[23:32.880 -> 23:36.520] They would probably say that they haven't quite got it yet culture wise
[23:37.480 -> 23:38.560] but
[23:38.560 -> 23:40.080] they need to
[23:40.080 -> 23:42.680] Be so ingrained in the culture. That's natural
[23:42.720 -> 23:45.840] So I was going to ask this going back to the business
[23:45.840 -> 23:48.720] She said you inherited this idea of it was like an old military
[23:49.280 -> 23:56.460] Environment of command and control and then I'm sure you inherit businesses like Johnson's and things like that where it's very different
[23:56.880 -> 24:04.200] What do you think is the biggest obstacle you come up against when you try and change a culture that people don't believe?
[24:04.760 -> 24:06.440] What we're saying?
[24:06.440 -> 24:09.020] So what one of the first things we always do
[24:09.420 -> 24:14.420] When we take over a new business and not all the businesses small businesses is they all seem to always seem to have a time
[24:14.420 -> 24:16.640] Clock when you go to the office you got a clock in and clock out
[24:17.160 -> 24:20.760] Switch it off because if you can't trust people to arrive to work on time
[24:20.760 -> 24:26.220] I mean sometimes, you know, we all have to be late because of a problem with kids at school or roadworks or whatever.
[24:26.220 -> 24:28.880] So always switch off the time clock.
[24:28.880 -> 24:30.960] And then I just talked about the culture
[24:30.960 -> 24:33.600] and what are our values and what's important to us.
[24:33.600 -> 24:35.060] And they just look at you going,
[24:35.060 -> 24:36.100] just don't believe you.
[24:36.100 -> 24:38.600] Because, you know, it just doesn't make,
[24:38.600 -> 24:41.060] it just sounds too good to be true.
[24:41.060 -> 24:41.900] Yeah.
[24:41.900 -> 24:43.280] So that's why it just takes time
[24:43.280 -> 24:45.760] and we've got to be consistent in the messaging and delivering on the things that we talk about. mae'n ddiddorol iawn i fod yn ddod o'r blaen. Felly dyna pam mae'n cymryd amser ac mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn cydweithiol yn y gwybodaeth
[24:45.760 -> 24:48.560] a'r pethau rydyn ni'n siarad amdano.
[24:48.560 -> 24:49.680] Felly rydyn ni'n ceisio gweithio ar
[24:49.680 -> 24:51.400] yr holl ddefnyddio cymdeithasol yn ystod.
[24:51.400 -> 24:52.640] Gallwch chi ysgrifennu'r rhai hynny i ni?
[24:52.640 -> 24:54.120] Oherwydd rwy'n credu y bydd pobl sy'n clywed y pod hon
[24:54.120 -> 24:55.840] yn ddiolchgar o'r ffaith
[24:55.840 -> 24:58.000] o'r cymdeithasau cymdeithasol hwnnw.
[24:58.000 -> 25:00.480] Iawn, fel rydw i wedi dweud yn gyntaf,
[25:00.480 -> 25:01.720] y pwyntiau rydyn ni'n pwyntio
[25:01.720 -> 25:03.520] nid yw pwyntiau gwych,
[25:03.520 -> 25:04.800] ond mae cymdeithasau yn gwych
[25:04.800 -> 25:07.100] yn y stafellau ac mae ein cymdeithas The wages we pay are not crazy wages But colleagues earn a pretty good commission in the shops and you know
[25:07.100 -> 25:13.100] Our colleague turnover level is very very low compared to most retail as we're about 14% which is low
[25:13.680 -> 25:17.480] But what I've learned over the years is the best money that we spend is
[25:17.640 -> 25:23.460] On the benefits that colleagues get on top of their wages and their bonus and again a lot of these ideas
[25:23.460 -> 25:24.400] I'm nicked off other people
[25:24.400 -> 25:29.160] You know all the books I've read and books probably you've read as well and I people you mean just Nick these ideas go
[25:29.160 -> 25:34.280] Let's just give it a go and I never asked the finance team how much is gonna cost we just do it
[25:34.440 -> 25:38.300] So the part of the main one is everyone gets their birthday offers an extra day off
[25:39.060 -> 25:44.100] We have pet bereavement days when you become a grandparent you get an extra day off
[25:44.240 -> 25:48.000] When your kids have their first day at school you get an extra day off, so we do things around
[25:48.000 -> 25:49.520] days off.
[25:49.520 -> 25:53.760] We have 20 holiday homes where colleagues go and have a free holiday.
[25:53.760 -> 25:58.960] There's lots of other things we do like scratch cards and celebration events, long service
[25:58.960 -> 26:02.480] events and just sort of subtle ways.
[26:02.480 -> 26:05.780] We've got a lottery so every week someone wins a grand.
[26:08.160 -> 26:09.760] Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.
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[28:47.000 -> 28:51.380] I've got your Twitter up here talking about your the things that you give your
[28:51.380 -> 28:55.640] staff you you tweeted a few days ago for a start you spoke about your birthday
[28:55.640 -> 28:59.320] I've given myself a written warning all Timpson's colleagues get their birthdays
[28:59.320 -> 29:03.040] off as an extra day off but I've sneaked to see our area manager I mean I had
[29:03.040 -> 29:05.120] 5,000 people liking
[29:05.120 -> 29:09.400] that message. And then there was one further down here, which I thought was brilliant.
[29:09.400 -> 29:13.440] And it, it really resonated with people. This is what you said. If you find our shops a
[29:13.440 -> 29:16.720] bit short staffed this week, I'm sorry. We have a colleague benefit where you get an
[29:16.720 -> 29:20.360] extra day off when your kids have their first day at school. So a number of colleagues are
[29:20.360 -> 29:26.120] doing a very special job away from their shops, liked by over 80,000 people
[29:26.120 -> 29:27.120] on social media.
[29:27.120 -> 29:28.120] That went mad, that one.
[29:28.120 -> 29:29.120] Yeah, it did.
[29:29.120 -> 29:32.220] But I wonder whether that's also a really important part of your culture, is making
[29:32.220 -> 29:36.320] sure that your customers understand that you do these things.
[29:36.320 -> 29:40.400] So that actually, before they've even had the service from Timpsons, they're more likely
[29:40.400 -> 29:44.320] to enjoy the service because they know that you, as a big business owner, are looking
[29:44.320 -> 29:46.200] after the people at the coal face
[29:46.200 -> 29:47.040] I think you're right
[29:47.040 -> 29:51.240] I think it's becoming increasingly important the way people decide how they're going to spend their money and
[29:51.620 -> 29:56.300] So in our shops, we don't have graphics saying buy this and you get another one half price
[29:56.480 -> 30:01.460] We talk about our culture. So we have graphics that say we pay all of our tax and we're proud of it
[30:01.460 -> 30:05.840] We don't do any funny schemes because I actually think from a customer's point of view, that's probably more important.
[30:05.840 -> 30:09.200] See, that made me want to come in.
[30:09.200 -> 30:10.880] I didn't know that before today.
[30:10.880 -> 30:12.480] And obviously there's choices when you go to shops.
[30:12.480 -> 30:17.440] I saw that bit about the tax and that for me is enough to now use Timpsons rather than
[30:17.440 -> 30:18.880] somewhere else.
[30:18.880 -> 30:22.000] And it amazes me that other companies just don't get it.
[30:22.000 -> 30:27.080] I mean, lots of customers walk into our shop. It's because they see the financial element
[30:27.080 -> 30:28.720] rather than the benefit element.
[30:28.720 -> 30:29.560] Do you know what I mean?
[30:29.560 -> 30:32.120] They see the cost of everything and not the value of it.
[30:32.120 -> 30:34.760] And let me be clear, I'm really commercial.
[30:34.760 -> 30:38.120] And I run the business like this because I believe it.
[30:38.120 -> 30:39.220] I think it's really important.
[30:39.220 -> 30:40.600] But I also think it actually helps us
[30:40.600 -> 30:42.080] make the most amount of money.
[30:42.080 -> 30:43.680] And if I run it like everyone else,
[30:43.680 -> 30:45.740] I'd probably be in the in the shit by now
[30:45.920 -> 30:50.360] But you know, we have lots of customers walk into our shops thinking that everybody has been to prison
[30:51.280 -> 30:54.200] But it's not about 10% of my colleagues. I've got prison experience
[30:54.920 -> 31:00.940] And it was never the intention, but I think customers like the fact that they're spending money with a company that has values
[31:00.940 -> 31:03.220] I mean, I think pretzel Monge has been excellent at this over the years
[31:04.120 -> 31:06.280] Talking about you know with the prep foundation and everything a chyfathrebu sydd â gwerthoedd. Dwi'n credu bod Pret-A-Manger wedi bod yn ddiddorol ar hyn dros y blynyddoedd, sôn amdano gyda'r Pratt Foundation
[31:06.280 -> 31:07.120] ac yr holl bethau,
[31:07.120 -> 31:08.480] maent yn eithaf gryf
[31:08.480 -> 31:09.840] yn rhoi'r cyfrifol
[31:09.840 -> 31:11.160] ac rwy'n credu mae'n helpu.
[31:12.120 -> 31:14.720] Pwy sy'n cymryd eich cymorth yma James?
[31:14.720 -> 31:15.960] Ac yr hyn rydw i'n golygu ar hynny yw
[31:15.960 -> 31:18.480] dwi'n gwybod y gynhwysiad o'ch fath
[31:18.480 -> 31:21.600] cyn i chi o ran gyrraedd y busnes
[31:21.600 -> 31:22.760] oedd wirioneddol critical.
[31:22.760 -> 31:24.920] Felly, pawb yw'r rhai sy'n ei wneud arnoch chi?
[31:24.920 -> 31:26.420] Felly, mae fy mab yn edrych yn yr arweinwyr, mewn gwirionedd, roedd yma dros y diwrnod diwethaf The business was really critical. So who does that for you? No, so my dad's still my chairman
[31:26.420 -> 31:28.040] In fact, he was over here last night
[31:28.040 -> 31:29.820] And he's great and you know
[31:29.820 -> 31:35.220] He loves business and he still spends one day a week going around the shops and he's involved in other things. But he's he's
[31:35.860 -> 31:39.640] We are completely aligned on culture and how we want to run the business
[31:40.140 -> 31:45.440] My senior team have been with me for years and they're really good at telling me when I've made a mistake or about to make
[31:45.440 -> 31:48.780] A mistake because they know me and I trust them
[31:49.320 -> 31:53.820] And I think having a team that's been around with you for a long time is a massive benefit
[31:53.920 -> 31:59.000] I'm involved in a couple of business networks where I can talk freely with
[31:59.400 -> 32:03.760] people who run big businesses and have similar sort of challenges I learn a lot from that and
[32:04.840 -> 32:09.880] Probably like you you just you meet people don't you and you I'm you know, I know you're asking me questions today
[32:09.880 -> 32:13.120] But I actually spent most of my life asking questions because I want to learn
[32:13.480 -> 32:19.280] But there's a famous saying in business that the first generation makes the business the second generation
[32:20.120 -> 32:23.280] Builds it and then the third generation squanders it
[32:23.480 -> 32:27.700] How were you putting plans in place to make sure that that doesn't happen?
[32:28.100 -> 32:32.420] You can't plan for the future too much because you just don't know what's gonna happen in the last six months
[32:32.540 -> 32:35.500] It's just proven that you can't plan for every situation
[32:35.900 -> 32:40.180] But I think if your culture is strong and your values are very clear
[32:40.660 -> 32:44.340] the organization is far more likely to stick to them and to
[32:44.900 -> 32:46.900] be okay, and
[32:46.900 -> 32:51.620] I'm a big believer in family businesses. I think even though it's owned by the family
[32:51.620 -> 32:54.960] there are four and a half thousand colleagues in our family business and
[32:55.620 -> 33:00.740] If you run a business for the benefit of a few you will go wrong
[33:00.740 -> 33:05.440] But if you run the business for the benefit of everybody who works in the business I think you'll probably be okay
[33:05.440 -> 33:11.600] so my view is all we can do is make sure that our culture is really strong our values are clear and
[33:12.440 -> 33:14.440] If family members do come into the business
[33:14.840 -> 33:21.000] They're really really talented really engaged and probably better than anybody else who could otherwise do the job
[33:21.240 -> 33:26.240] And you you call the business your family and you have children, you have an actual family here.
[33:26.240 -> 33:27.080] Yeah, yeah.
[33:27.080 -> 33:28.960] So we've got three kids, all now,
[33:28.960 -> 33:30.600] as of next week at university.
[33:30.600 -> 33:31.480] Amazing.
[33:31.480 -> 33:33.040] I want to talk a bit about parenting
[33:33.040 -> 33:34.760] and the things you've learned along the way through business
[33:34.760 -> 33:36.200] that inform us the way you parent.
[33:36.200 -> 33:37.680] I think the first thing is,
[33:37.680 -> 33:39.760] thank you very much for inviting us to your lovely home.
[33:39.760 -> 33:41.560] It's always quite important, I think,
[33:41.560 -> 33:43.880] when people invite you to sort of step over the threshold
[33:43.880 -> 33:45.140] to have a conversation like this.
[33:45.140 -> 33:47.360] It makes it all feel a little bit more personal.
[33:47.360 -> 33:48.720] I'm sure you won't mind me saying,
[33:48.720 -> 33:51.440] for people who are listening to a podcast
[33:51.440 -> 33:53.960] and watching the clip from in this room,
[33:53.960 -> 33:55.560] that your house is lovely,
[33:55.560 -> 33:58.080] it's a beautiful setting in the countryside.
[33:58.080 -> 34:01.280] So how do you, with this kind of a life,
[34:01.280 -> 34:03.280] and I'm sure your parents did it with you as well,
[34:03.280 -> 34:05.080] because you would have a very
[34:07.080 -> 34:07.600] Lovely upbringing. How do you build?
[34:12.560 -> 34:12.840] Resilience and compassion in your children for other people. Well, firstly, I have an amazing wife
[34:17.880 -> 34:22.600] Who is the person who is probably has far more influence over our kids than me that she's amazing at it I think she's being honest and trusting them and it's okay if they make mistakes
[34:24.280 -> 34:26.260] Communicating and
[34:26.300 -> 34:29.740] Maybe some people would say we've always been probably too open with our kids
[34:30.100 -> 34:34.720] but we don't keep any secrets and we treat them as equals and
[34:36.060 -> 34:38.820] Our kids are great. And you just want them to be happy and
[34:39.500 -> 34:42.200] I don't think money makes kids happy
[34:42.200 -> 34:45.080] It's about love and it's about experiences and it's about
[34:45.560 -> 34:51.200] The guidance the quiet guidance that you can give them and how do you give them an understanding of work ethic because it?
[34:51.360 -> 34:56.700] It wouldn't be out of this world to think one of your children might actually go. Well dad did alright granddad did alright
[34:56.700 -> 35:00.060] I'm just gonna chill out and live in a nice flat in Chelsea and go clubbing every night
[35:00.060 -> 35:04.020] Like how do you how do you prevent that happening or do you even worry about preventing that from happening?
[35:04.160 -> 35:06.440] Yeah, I mean we keep them on a really tight rein
[35:07.120 -> 35:10.880] I don't want our kids to have any more money than any of their friends
[35:11.320 -> 35:17.960] because I don't want them to be any different from anybody else and if I are Patrick our middle son he went to university in
[35:17.960 -> 35:19.960] Switzerland for two years just come back and
[35:20.600 -> 35:24.600] Some of the kids he was hanging around with he just says was just they had so much money
[35:24.600 -> 35:29.160] It was outrageous absolutely outrageous and and he just saw that as a bad thing
[35:29.720 -> 35:32.260] So we have this little system. So we have the family card
[35:32.580 -> 35:37.800] So if they need to spend money on things that we would have bought it's just easier for them
[35:37.800 -> 35:40.860] so they will each have this family credit card, which I pay off every month and
[35:41.840 -> 35:45.720] So we will say we'll always pay for travel because we never want you to have money as
[35:45.720 -> 35:47.440] a reason why you can't come home.
[35:47.440 -> 35:51.000] So basically it's for trains and buses and that, and that kind of thing.
[35:51.000 -> 35:53.080] And then private jets, not private jets.
[35:53.080 -> 35:57.240] No, no, it's only, I think it's a 700 pound limit or so every month.
[35:57.240 -> 36:01.880] And but each month when I get the statements through, I photograph each one and put it
[36:01.880 -> 36:03.000] on the family WhatsApp group.
[36:03.000 -> 36:05.080] So they all see what each other has spent.
[36:05.080 -> 36:06.960] And if any of them have spent anything
[36:06.960 -> 36:07.800] they shouldn't have done on it,
[36:07.800 -> 36:10.000] they have to pay me back double.
[36:10.000 -> 36:11.840] So that's how, that's how we do it.
[36:11.840 -> 36:14.280] And what about instilling the compassion element?
[36:14.280 -> 36:15.560] Because I would say,
[36:15.560 -> 36:16.800] having had this conversation with you,
[36:16.800 -> 36:20.680] that compassion is this sort of the underlying success
[36:20.680 -> 36:21.520] for Timpson's.
[36:21.520 -> 36:22.480] How do you ensure your children
[36:22.480 -> 36:24.400] have that compassion as well?
[36:24.400 -> 36:26.900] If you talk about how do they have compassion
[36:26.900 -> 36:31.060] for the business or for working in an organization,
[36:32.020 -> 36:34.560] they've been around this all their life.
[36:34.560 -> 36:37.020] Colleagues come to our house all the time.
[36:37.020 -> 36:40.340] They're popping into the office, popping into the shops,
[36:40.340 -> 36:41.840] working in the shops, in fact all the kids
[36:41.840 -> 36:43.840] have worked in the shops.
[36:43.840 -> 36:47.520] And so it's sort of all around them. So I'd like to think it's becomes
[36:48.200 -> 36:52.080] Familiar and natural to them and also just talk about things
[36:52.080 -> 36:56.000] I'm always showing them interesting articles of bread or or podcasts or whatever and
[36:56.520 -> 37:01.680] And there are I like to think they're interested and you allow them to make mistakes. Yeah
[37:02.320 -> 37:05.160] Yeah, what's your relationship like with failure?
[37:05.160 -> 37:07.000] We fail, I fail all the time.
[37:07.000 -> 37:09.880] I mean, I'm doing things wrong all the time.
[37:09.880 -> 37:11.440] And as long as the little failures,
[37:11.440 -> 37:12.980] I get, you know, I put my hand up
[37:12.980 -> 37:14.820] and I always think it's important to say
[37:14.820 -> 37:16.340] when you cocked up.
[37:16.340 -> 37:17.840] I think the kids, you know,
[37:17.840 -> 37:19.640] they've had their ups and downs,
[37:19.640 -> 37:21.480] like all families have.
[37:21.480 -> 37:23.600] You know, we've had challenges over the years.
[37:23.600 -> 37:24.800] My mom died four years ago.
[37:24.800 -> 37:29.520] That was a really big hit to the family and it's just about being honest with them and just saying okay what we learned
[37:30.200 -> 37:34.700] This is not working. You know, we've had kids move universities and stuff. It's not working. Let's
[37:35.220 -> 37:41.080] Let's try again, but you've got to let them be themselves and find things that they are happy with
[37:41.080 -> 37:42.320] I just want you kids to be happy
[37:42.320 -> 37:46.040] That's an important message for people to hear because I think people look at someone like James and thinks All right, someone who's successful whereas I'm someone that makes mistakes all the time y byddent yn hapus gyda nhw. Rydyn ni'n eisiau i'r plant fod yn hapus. Rwy'n credu mai dyna'n gwybod sy'n bwysig i bobl i ddysgu oherwydd rwy'n credu y bydd pobl yn edrych ar rhywun fel James
[37:46.040 -> 37:47.840] a meddwl, iawn, rhywun sy'n cyflogwyr,
[37:47.840 -> 37:49.520] er mwyn i mi fod yn rhywun sy'n gwneud pwysau'r holl amser,
[37:49.520 -> 37:51.400] felly dydw i ddim yn mynd i fod yn cyflogwr.
[37:51.400 -> 37:52.640] Ond mae'r gofyn o'r ddau
[37:52.640 -> 37:54.480] fod y pwysigrwydd nid yw'r gwirionedd o'r cyflog,
[37:54.480 -> 37:57.200] mae'n rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan i'w gael.
[37:57.200 -> 37:58.040] Ie, llawer.
[37:58.040 -> 37:59.920] Rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi bod,
[37:59.920 -> 38:01.760] fel gwybod eich busnes ychydig, James,
[38:01.760 -> 38:03.640] rwy'n credu mai dyna un o'r pethau
[38:03.640 -> 38:04.880] rydw i bob amser wedi'u golygu
[38:04.880 -> 38:06.880] o ran y cyfathrebu cyfansoddiadol.
[38:06.880 -> 38:09.000] Felly mae gennych eich llyfr newydd,
[38:09.000 -> 38:10.440] eich llyfr da.
[38:10.440 -> 38:12.520] A oes gennych chi am rannu rhai o'r cynghorau
[38:12.520 -> 38:13.400] o ran...
[38:13.400 -> 38:15.560] Oherwydd mae wedi'i ddysgu ychydig o amser
[38:15.560 -> 38:18.000] mae'n ymwneud â phromodio'r gwybodaeth da,
[38:18.000 -> 38:20.480] ond nid yw'n ymdrech o'r gwybodaeth ddau hefyd,
[38:20.480 -> 38:21.320] yw'n ymwneud â'r gydaeth?
[38:21.320 -> 38:23.040] Rwy'n credu y gafodd chi'r cyfathrebu hynny'n iawn.
[38:23.040 -> 38:24.520] Felly, roedd hynny'n rhywbeth y dechreuodd fy mab,
[38:24.520 -> 38:26.080] oherwydd pan ddechreuodd... Roedd e'n gael ei ddau'r sioebyddion yn 1987 either does it I think you get that balance right so something my dad started because when he first
[38:26.580 -> 38:32.680] had he sold he sold the shoe shops in 1987 and then he had this shoe repair business I joined him in 94 and
[38:33.560 -> 38:38.260] It was just a lot of bad news and he was just getting pretty down because it was just more bad news off the other
[38:38.440 -> 38:39.800] So he did these little notepads
[38:39.800 -> 38:43.240] You're saying John here's some good news and just sent it to every shop saying Lisa
[38:43.240 -> 38:44.640] I can get some good news and
[38:44.640 -> 38:45.780] All started coming in,
[38:45.780 -> 38:47.060] which is I've had a record week
[38:47.060 -> 38:48.860] or my daughter's passed a driving test
[38:48.860 -> 38:50.780] or I'm getting married or whatever.
[38:50.780 -> 38:53.020] And that formed the basis of the newsletter.
[38:53.020 -> 38:54.540] So we just need some good news.
[38:54.540 -> 38:57.020] So that's why the newsletter is just good news.
[38:57.020 -> 38:57.860] I love that.
[38:57.860 -> 38:58.680] Brilliant.
[38:58.680 -> 39:00.040] The way I've always viewed it, James,
[39:00.040 -> 39:02.020] is that it almost like,
[39:02.020 -> 39:03.620] think of it like an emotional bank account.
[39:03.620 -> 39:05.520] You pay in lots of the good stuff
[39:05.520 -> 39:08.080] so that when you have to talk about failure or things that
[39:08.080 -> 39:11.560] have gone wrong, you've got enough credit in the bank
[39:11.560 -> 39:14.560] with your staff because that's not the only information
[39:14.560 -> 39:16.240] you're sharing with them.
[39:16.240 -> 39:18.720] Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes I
[39:18.720 -> 39:20.340] get challenged on the fact that it's
[39:20.340 -> 39:23.280] a bit cult-like, our business.
[39:23.280 -> 39:27.160] And have we just done too much good news and for example, you know
[39:27.160 -> 39:31.780] I I've opened shops have been a complete disaster. I've bought businesses have been complete disaster, you know
[39:31.780 -> 39:34.360] I feel I probably make more mistakes most people do
[39:34.760 -> 39:40.480] But it's it's back being positive and being on the front foot and being honest about when things go wrong
[39:40.480 -> 39:42.480] But the main message has got to be positive
[39:42.840 -> 39:45.440] Out of those mistakes that you have made then what would you say has been? yn ystod y pethau sy'n mynd yn iawn, ond mae'r cyfansoddau'n rhaid i'w fod yn positif. Yn ystod y pethau y mae gennych wedi'u gwneud,
[39:45.440 -> 39:47.160] beth fyddech chi'n dweud oedd y peth
[39:47.160 -> 39:49.400] sy'n rhoi'r gwybodaeth mwyaf i chi
[39:49.400 -> 39:51.920] y byddwch chi'n ymwneud âd-gyflwyno heddiw ar y Strydfa Timsons?
[39:51.920 -> 39:53.560] Mae'n ymwneud â phobl yn y blynyddoedd.
[39:53.560 -> 39:56.120] Mae'n ymwneud â phobl sy'n cymryd cymorth.
[39:56.120 -> 39:59.040] Ac rwy'n meddwl, os oeddwn i'n cymryd cymorth
[39:59.040 -> 40:00.200] bob blwyddyn,
[40:00.200 -> 40:01.960] o ran unrhyw ddechrau, byddwn i'n dod yn ddiweddar.
[40:01.960 -> 40:03.280] Byddwn i'n ymwneud â phobl.
[40:03.280 -> 40:04.880] Byddwn i'n dod i'r pwynt
[40:04.880 -> 40:05.680] lle mae'n llwyr o'n gysylltiadau, ond nid oes ein sgiliau. At some point I'd come unstuck we all probably would we'd all get to a point where it's just out of our comfort zone
[40:05.680 -> 40:08.080] our skills aren't there and I'm
[40:08.920 -> 40:11.480] Really guilty of over promoting some people
[40:11.560 -> 40:14.380] It's easy to trap to fall into though, isn't it?
[40:14.380 -> 40:18.760] Because you want to empower your people to rise all the time. It's hard
[40:18.760 -> 40:24.060] Hmm, and I also think it's often easy to promote people who agree with you
[40:24.440 -> 40:27.240] Rather than promote people who challenge you.
[40:27.240 -> 40:28.640] So I've learned over the years,
[40:28.640 -> 40:33.120] I'm much better developing people who will challenge
[40:33.120 -> 40:37.440] and sometimes are pretty difficult
[40:37.440 -> 40:39.600] because they're the ones that really helped me
[40:39.600 -> 40:40.520] drive the business home.
[40:40.520 -> 40:42.840] Isn't over promoting people though,
[40:42.840 -> 40:51.040] until you reach a point where they start to struggle the right thing to do because otherwise the alternative is not over promoting them and not
[40:51.280 -> 40:54.460] Not finding where the limit is for them. Yeah, you're right
[40:54.600 -> 40:59.800] But when you do over promote someone it's not their fault that they've gone into position where it's all going wrong
[40:59.800 -> 41:02.520] It's your fault that you've over promoted them
[41:02.520 -> 41:06.560] So you got to help them come back to the position where they were successful
[41:06.560 -> 41:12.860] and that's the Dell that's very delicate how you do that because you're denting someone's pride and
[41:13.640 -> 41:16.320] It's it needs to be handled really carefully
[41:16.320 -> 41:21.280] What what are your tricks for dealing with dented pride if you do an investment you buy a new business
[41:21.400 -> 41:25.920] You set up a store that fails. How do you recover from that failure personally?
[41:26.320 -> 41:27.760] What processes do you go through?
[41:27.920 -> 41:31.580] Well, I mean, if we look at the last six months, when our business has been
[41:31.580 -> 41:37.040] absolutely hit, we've been knocked out on the floor, it's been really difficult.
[41:38.000 -> 41:41.040] Because some parts of it have been exciting.
[41:41.600 -> 41:47.160] Some part of it has been really scary and it's how you keep the sort of positive message to everybody
[41:47.160 -> 41:49.040] So like even during the depth of lockdown
[41:49.040 -> 41:51.560] I was doing my couple of times a week sometimes a
[41:52.080 -> 41:56.800] Video message that went to every colleague and it's about what's going on and what we're planning for and stuff
[41:56.800 -> 42:00.420] It's Christ, you know, I need to need to be positive for this one. Come on pull yourself together
[42:01.320 -> 42:07.440] When you're just getting hit hit hit and I think it's probably about being honest and it's about these are the challenges
[42:07.440 -> 42:12.360] We've got and if you tell everybody I mean, I always remember that the Shackleton advert wasn't you remember the Shackleton advert?
[42:12.360 -> 42:15.120] Which is you know, I'm going to the South Pole, you know, you may not come home
[42:15.120 -> 42:22.760] The weather's terrible the foods awful and loads of people applied the most applied for a job. But yeah, yeah, so I think
[42:23.840 -> 42:25.560] When things go wrong,
[42:25.560 -> 42:26.840] you should be honest about it,
[42:26.840 -> 42:29.480] but give people a vision of how you're going to get out of it
[42:29.480 -> 42:30.400] and it's not their fault.
[42:30.400 -> 42:31.240] I'm the leader.
[42:31.240 -> 42:33.820] You know, I got to take the responsibility for it.
[42:33.820 -> 42:37.400] Which sounds very much like the role of a coach.
[42:37.400 -> 42:38.400] So on this podcast,
[42:38.400 -> 42:41.520] we've interviewed some leading managers like Frank Lampard
[42:41.520 -> 42:43.120] or Ole Solskjaer,
[42:43.120 -> 43:08.160] and they're describing lots of the same characteristics that they have to do in a sporting context yw'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud â'r rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n ymwneud ag y rheini sy'n y rheini sy the people I talk to, the colleagues who I work alongside. And every day I'm just sort of nudging it a bit.
[43:08.160 -> 43:11.160] Need to move in that direction, need to work on that.
[43:11.160 -> 43:14.440] And I've got a list, pages and pages of things
[43:14.440 -> 43:15.760] I need to do.
[43:15.760 -> 43:17.680] And a lot of those things are easy little things,
[43:17.680 -> 43:19.980] but actually, what are the two or three big things
[43:19.980 -> 43:20.920] we're gonna be working on?
[43:20.920 -> 43:23.000] And that to me is the really interesting bit
[43:23.000 -> 43:25.080] of how you guide yourself and how,
[43:25.080 -> 43:27.640] so you know, because the world is changing all the time
[43:27.640 -> 43:30.240] and it's how you gear the business up.
[43:30.240 -> 43:35.240] So for example, is our business as diverse as it should be?
[43:35.840 -> 43:36.760] Probably not.
[43:36.760 -> 43:37.840] That's not good.
[43:37.840 -> 43:38.680] I need to sort that.
[43:38.680 -> 43:41.480] So there's always new, there's new things you learn.
[43:41.480 -> 43:44.160] There's new ways you need to do your business
[43:44.160 -> 43:49.480] that probably keeps me learning. And I'm interested about taking risks and diversifying
[43:49.480 -> 43:53.560] I think sometimes you can have a great business like Timpson's and it's very easy to go right. This is the business
[43:54.120 -> 43:55.960] This is successful
[43:55.960 -> 44:01.400] Let's consolidate and I'm not a fan of consolidation because for me it almost feels like you're shrinking
[44:01.400 -> 44:06.740] Well, everyone else around you is growing and being dynamic and acquiring and investing and pushing and pushing.
[44:06.740 -> 44:11.300] So what's your philosophy to taking risks, to pushing the business, to growing it all
[44:11.300 -> 44:14.060] the time, to going outside of your own comfort zone?
[44:14.060 -> 44:18.140] I think we always have to keep growing or trying to grow.
[44:18.140 -> 44:22.260] I don't think a business is healthy if it just stops or is retreating.
[44:22.260 -> 44:23.260] You've got to keep growing.
[44:23.260 -> 44:25.040] You've got to keep trying to open more shops
[44:25.040 -> 44:26.200] or try new ideas.
[44:26.200 -> 44:27.080] Why is that?
[44:27.080 -> 44:28.480] Why isn't it sometimes good to go, right,
[44:28.480 -> 44:29.680] for the next 12 months,
[44:29.680 -> 44:32.760] let's just make everything work to capacity
[44:32.760 -> 44:33.640] and then we'll look to move on.
[44:33.640 -> 44:35.600] That's not a good way of thinking from your perspective.
[44:35.600 -> 44:36.560] I don't think so.
[44:36.560 -> 44:38.280] I don't think it helps people's development.
[44:38.280 -> 44:39.920] I think people want to be working in an organization
[44:39.920 -> 44:42.960] that's growing so it gives them opportunities themselves.
[44:42.960 -> 44:46.520] So when we do new things, I always start off really really small
[44:47.160 -> 44:50.440] Throw money at it. Just keep throwing money at it loses money
[44:50.440 -> 44:54.440] keep throwing money at it until it gets to a point where I can see it see the working and
[44:55.180 -> 44:57.180] we're gonna get there or
[44:57.760 -> 45:01.840] We we just cut and so I'm happy to keep taking the hits
[45:02.120 -> 45:09.920] But I want to learn and I know learning cost money and when we do deals when we buy companies I spend ages and ages
[45:10.280 -> 45:13.020] Knowing that company better probably in the people we buy it off
[45:13.500 -> 45:18.580] So for example when we bought the Johnson's business, I knew every shop. I've been to every shop a couple of times
[45:19.200 -> 45:25.120] The the colleagues who joined us from them. I spent ages talking to them all
[45:25.640 -> 45:29.800] Telling you know learning about the culture what was working well, what wasn't working well, so when it comes to doing the deal
[45:30.240 -> 45:31.440] It's just obvious
[45:31.440 -> 45:37.040] You know how much it's worth and I'm also quite happy to overpay and it may sound a strange thing
[45:37.040 -> 45:40.200] I don't mind overpaying by a bit because I got a long-term view if
[45:40.520 -> 45:43.420] If it's a private equity deal or something where you know
[45:43.420 -> 45:45.340] It's literally three years in out
[45:47.560 -> 45:47.720] Then the price that they pay is really important
[45:53.360 -> 45:57.420] But for me if I'm gonna buy a business that's going to be with us in 20 years time if I if it takes me another Year to get the money back. That's okay. So what would make you walk away from a deal then?
[45:57.980 -> 46:02.280] This is one of the lessons I've learned is never do a deal with someone you don't like
[46:02.840 -> 46:06.000] because it always goes wrong whether it's a supplier a
[46:06.540 -> 46:12.960] Landlord even if you see all this could make me many millions of pounds you would still yeah don't big mistake
[46:13.660 -> 46:21.260] Because you want to do good business and good business is done with people who you're aligned with. So when the lockdown happened
[46:22.380 -> 46:27.500] We wrote to every landlord to say we're gonna pay all of our rent for the March quarter day
[46:27.500 -> 46:31.680] And then from the June quarter day, we're going to pay you all your rent
[46:31.680 -> 46:37.180] But instead of quarterly in advance monthly in advance and we've got hundreds of landlords
[46:37.200 -> 46:44.320] we had two landlords who kicked back and said no and we knew which landlords they would be even before we sent the letters right and
[46:48.480 -> 46:52.440] Those shops we're trying to get out of and have different landlords Even if it's a cost to me because I don't want to be doing business with people like that
[46:53.240 -> 46:57.880] So when you look at all the businesses that you own now all of the businesses in the Timpsons group
[46:57.880 -> 47:03.960] And they all come with the same philosophy that you allow your staff to lead from the front you empower your people
[47:04.160 -> 47:05.740] You look after your people,
[47:05.740 -> 47:07.160] you promote them.
[47:07.160 -> 47:11.240] How much of what you do is because you want to lift up
[47:11.240 -> 47:14.280] and empower people and how much is it
[47:14.280 -> 47:15.560] just about making money?
[47:15.560 -> 47:17.200] How was that balance for you?
[47:17.200 -> 47:21.280] I would say it's 20% making money, 80% the people.
[47:21.280 -> 47:26.620] And is that because if you do the 80%, the money will come yeah, it just it's weird
[47:26.620 -> 47:30.920] It just you end up making money if you get the the culture and the people bit, right?
[47:31.620 -> 47:36.100] Because they the colleagues who who serve customers and put money in the till
[47:36.660 -> 47:39.300] If you trust them and let them get on with it, they'll work it out
[47:39.980 -> 47:45.380] You you don't work. You don't work it out in the office how to so for example, we've opened this barbershop business
[47:45.380 -> 47:51.440] So we've now got seven barber shops, which actually we're doing really well before the lockdown and since then no one's no one's to
[47:51.440 -> 47:56.120] Ever bought clippers. I think people get a haircut, but you know, I've never cut anyone's hair
[47:56.120 -> 47:57.520] I will never cut anybody's head
[47:57.520 -> 48:04.300] Don't let me cut anybody's hair, but I'll find some I find people who are really good at cutting hair and they'll tell me what?
[48:04.300 -> 48:05.080] How you know what price you pay they'll tell me what how you know
[48:05.080 -> 48:10.480] What price you pay how long it should take how you serve customers what you need what you don't need and then it's our job
[48:10.480 -> 48:13.280] To keep asking them what we need to do to improve what we need to do to improve
[48:13.720 -> 48:16.280] You don't find that out by me sitting in an office
[48:17.020 -> 48:22.380] But then surely when you have your board meetings, the first item on the agenda is what's our turnover and our profit?
[48:22.380 -> 48:25.720] No, so in our main board, so we do our main board meeting
[48:25.720 -> 48:30.400] Which is we do it six times a year and my dad always does like a four or five page
[48:30.640 -> 48:36.920] Sort of an essay really about his thoughts. So here we have a chat. So a couple of weeks before he does it about
[48:36.920 -> 48:38.840] What are the things that are?
[48:38.840 -> 48:42.120] important and what are the things we need to probably need to be working on and
[48:42.920 -> 48:45.480] And that's what we talk about.
[48:45.480 -> 48:48.280] And then, so that's probably like an hour and a half.
[48:48.280 -> 48:52.040] And then we have like 15 minutes on finance.
[48:52.040 -> 48:54.800] And then there'll be probably half an hour on just
[48:54.800 -> 48:57.280] where we're up to on a deal, or where we're up to on sorting
[48:57.280 -> 48:57.880] a problem out.
[48:57.880 -> 48:58.800] And that's it.
[48:58.800 -> 49:00.640] So the actual conversation about money
[49:00.640 -> 49:03.320] is quite a small part of the board meeting.
[49:03.320 -> 49:09.360] Yeah, I mean, we always run the business conservatively because so we don't want the converse. We don't need the conversation to be about money
[49:10.820 -> 49:12.080] So we always have money in the bank
[49:12.080 -> 49:19.520] We don't like debt and you know, we don't pay out big dividends or crazy bonuses and stuff like to have money in the business
[49:19.520 -> 49:23.840] so that's not a priority so you can then talk about the things that are interesting and
[49:24.640 -> 49:27.120] You know, I'm not actually financially driven
[49:28.200 -> 49:30.200] Which probably helps I don't know
[49:31.040 -> 49:36.960] But I think it's more interesting to talk about culture values direction of travel
[49:37.000 -> 49:42.160] For example, we're talking at the board meeting about technology and how where are we on technology?
[49:42.160 -> 49:46.500] You know, we're never going to be an Amazon. We're never gonna be a business that has
[49:46.500 -> 49:50.240] hundreds of coders and all this sort of stuff.
[49:50.240 -> 49:51.960] But we also don't want to be a business
[49:51.960 -> 49:53.760] that doesn't embrace technology at all.
[49:53.760 -> 49:56.300] So we're talking about whereabouts do we pitch it,
[49:56.300 -> 49:58.640] and where should we be investing,
[49:58.640 -> 50:00.760] and how do we invest, what do we do in-house.
[50:00.760 -> 50:04.920] So I much prefer doing things in-house than contracting out.
[50:05.520 -> 50:09.920] I just think it works better in our culture when we do things in-house.
[50:09.920 -> 50:11.520] So we're talking about that.
[50:11.520 -> 50:15.560] So that's sort of how we talk about things rather than money.
[50:15.560 -> 50:17.560] Have you read a book called The Go-Giver?
[50:17.560 -> 50:18.560] No.
[50:18.560 -> 50:20.160] I think you'd really like it.
[50:20.160 -> 50:23.160] It basically is everything you're talking about.
[50:23.160 -> 50:25.400] The underlying principles are offer, basically give more than you're getting. It's not about getting.'re talking about it. The underlying principles are offer
[50:25.920 -> 50:30.080] Basically give more than you're getting it's not about getting it's about giving so offer more value
[50:30.480 -> 50:34.720] To the customer or to the person that you're providing a service for then you're charging them
[50:35.520 -> 50:38.360] It talks about all you need to do is expand
[50:38.360 -> 50:41.540] So the size of your reach is the key thing and the sort of underlying
[50:41.640 -> 50:45.140] Principle is if your focus is on what you're giving other people it will come back to you in droves and the sort of underlying principle is if your focus is on what you're giving other people
[50:48.060 -> 50:48.640] It will come back to you in droves and it sort of feels to me that
[50:54.140 -> 50:54.400] That is the principle of what you're talking about here. Your number one thought process isn't what can I get?
[50:56.280 -> 50:59.880] It seems to be what can I give? Yeah, so let me give you an example in our shops in the Timpson shops
[50:59.880 -> 51:03.120] You reckon about 4% of all of our transactions we do for free
[51:03.920 -> 51:08.480] So you may think commercial stupid, you know, you could be getting money in for doing all these things
[51:08.680 -> 51:11.200] But actually I actually think it's the most profitable thing we do
[51:11.720 -> 51:15.560] Because you always remember when someone's giving you something for free because no one really does
[51:15.560 -> 51:19.900] I mean, I think Pratt's a brilliant at it, you know giving free cups of tea and coffee away
[51:19.900 -> 51:22.560] I mean they are I think they're all like 5% 10% sometimes
[51:23.060 -> 51:26.220] Because it creates loyalty and And I agree with you.
[51:26.220 -> 51:28.620] If you give a lot, you end up getting.
[51:28.620 -> 51:33.740] But there's so much of what you're saying, James, that I, that I hear the echoes of,
[51:33.740 -> 51:39.260] of, uh, your mother's legacy here, this whole thing of giving back and looking to nurture
[51:39.260 -> 51:42.100] and help other people.
[51:42.100 -> 51:48.400] How much was she involved in the business when your dad was running it because some of these values seem to have been inculcated
[51:48.560 -> 51:50.560] both professionally and personally
[51:51.080 -> 51:54.160] And she wasn't really involved in the business at all. So she was a
[51:54.880 -> 52:01.080] Mother foster carer, but she did have a big influence on things on in the early days about you know
[52:01.080 -> 52:06.820] What deals my dad should do and shouldn't do and that sort of stuff. She was spot on every time.
[52:06.820 -> 52:08.820] There's, my dad used to have a photo of my mom
[52:08.820 -> 52:11.900] in his office and it was her hoovering our shop
[52:11.900 -> 52:14.620] in Reading Asda, 662 Reading.
[52:14.620 -> 52:17.180] And they just popped in and she said,
[52:17.180 -> 52:18.400] this carpet is filthy.
[52:18.400 -> 52:20.700] So she got the hoover herself and was hoovering the shop
[52:20.700 -> 52:21.660] and that sort of stuff.
[52:21.660 -> 52:24.140] But all the long service lunches and stuff,
[52:24.140 -> 52:24.980] I mean, they loved it.
[52:24.980 -> 52:28.760] You know, they loved it. She's going to the office and stuff and she wasn't interested in business
[52:28.760 -> 52:35.160] She's interested in people and that's what people respond to. I think maybe you are as well there, right? Yeah, I'm a people person
[52:35.680 -> 52:38.040] Listen, it's been lovely to sit here for the best part of an hour
[52:38.040 -> 52:41.320] I just talked to you about your business and the way you operate
[52:41.320 -> 52:46.000] We always finish with some quickfire questions and they can be as short as long as you want them to be
[52:46.780 -> 52:48.640] What are your three?
[52:48.640 -> 52:53.440] Non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you at Timpson's have to buy into I
[52:54.320 -> 52:59.240] Like people who are kind. I like people who have a
[53:00.920 -> 53:02.920] Positive demeanor and
[53:03.240 -> 53:05.240] I like people
[53:05.320 -> 53:08.360] Who are motivated by other things and just money?
[53:08.840 -> 53:14.080] What advice would you give a teenage James just starting out? I must have been a nightmare. I
[53:15.180 -> 53:17.180] Think just ask ask lots of questions
[53:18.120 -> 53:20.600] just learn educate yourself and
[53:21.840 -> 53:27.400] Business is not something you can just turn up and do you got to learn it and the best way to learn it is by
[53:27.900 -> 53:31.580] Listening to podcasts reading things doing load of jobs
[53:31.580 -> 53:34.740] I love it in the business when someone says can I have a go at this?
[53:35.040 -> 53:42.540] Give me some responsibility so ask and push yourself because we have some incredibly successful colleagues who are young
[53:43.000 -> 54:07.240] who are really young and That's what's exciting Mae gen i ddau ffrindiau sy'n gyffrous iawn sy'n iawn, sy'n iawn iawn, sy'n iawn iawn, sy'n iawn iawn, sy'n iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn iawn ia after them in their time of need and they had a great time. So yeah, so it is important.
[54:07.240 -> 54:08.980] And what is your one golden rule
[54:08.980 -> 54:11.340] to live a high performance life?
[54:11.340 -> 54:15.520] Be on it, I'm on it, organize, like you guys, you know,
[54:16.620 -> 54:20.780] I'm just, I like to get things done, energy, I'm on it.
[54:21.960 -> 54:28.720] Wonderful, I've loved having this conversation with you because I think that you are the perfect mix of someone who is
[54:29.300 -> 54:35.860] Clearly a driven and very successful businessman, but married to that you've been on the shop floor literally
[54:35.860 -> 54:38.580] So you've you're leading from the front because you've been there
[54:38.740 -> 54:42.020] But more important to me than any of that stuff is you are leading with empathy
[54:42.020 -> 54:45.600] You're leading with emotion and I can tell when you talk that you have an
[54:45.600 -> 54:53.620] Emotional connection to the people that you employ and you don't employ two or three people you employ thousands of people and that is
[54:54.280 -> 54:58.680] Hugely admirable and I think if there's one takeaway for people that have listened to this podcast
[54:58.680 -> 55:04.720] It is that you don't have to be ruthless to be successful. You can be kind and you can be successful at the same time
[55:04.840 -> 55:05.240] Thank you very much You have to be ruthless to be successful. You can be kind and you can be successful at the same time.
[55:05.240 -> 55:06.080] Thank you very much.
[55:06.080 -> 55:06.920] Thank you.
[55:06.920 -> 55:07.740] Thank you.
[55:07.740 -> 55:08.580] Thank you.
[55:08.580 -> 55:09.420] Thank you.
[55:09.420 -> 55:10.240] Thank you.
[55:10.240 -> 55:11.080] Damien.
[55:11.080 -> 55:11.920] Jake.
[55:11.920 -> 55:13.440] Anyone who believes you have to be ruthless
[55:13.440 -> 55:15.080] to be successful in business
[55:15.080 -> 55:18.000] needs to listen to that conversation with James Timson.
[55:18.000 -> 55:18.820] Absolutely.
[55:18.820 -> 55:21.280] I was reminded of a quote from Howard Schultz,
[55:21.280 -> 55:23.080] the guy that set up Starbucks,
[55:23.080 -> 55:28.040] where he once challenged the idea that it was a coffee business. He said we're not a coffee business, we're a
[55:28.040 -> 55:32.040] people business that just happens to serve coffee. And I think when you think
[55:32.040 -> 55:36.520] of Timpson's, it's not a shoe repair business or a key cutting business, it's
[55:36.520 -> 55:40.600] a people business that just happens to do those processes. I also love the fact
[55:40.600 -> 55:43.600] that he talks about failure and says he fails all the time. And I think you look
[55:43.600 -> 55:47.220] at someone from the outside, know James Timpson worth a
[55:47.220 -> 55:50.860] lot of money his dad ran the business also worth a lot of money
[55:50.860 -> 55:55.120] surely they don't fail surely they don't make mistakes yet the reality is
[55:55.120 -> 55:58.660] successful people fail more often than anybody else
[55:58.660 -> 56:02.260] yep and I think again it comes back to that relationship that they have with it
[56:02.260 -> 56:26.000] do you do you take it as failure as terminal or do you see it as feedback on mae'n dod yn ôl i'r gysylltiad y maen nhw'n ei gael. Ydych chi'n ei ddweud, ydych chi'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddweud, yw'n ei ddwe. Ac rwy'n credu, wrth i ni ddod o hyd i'r pandemig globol ac mae'r ystafell y Ffyrdd I wedi'i ddewis,
[56:26.000 -> 56:27.000] dyna lle maen nhw'n gwneud eu busnes,
[56:27.000 -> 56:28.000] mae'n amserau fel hyn
[56:28.000 -> 56:29.000] y byddwch chi'n deall
[56:29.000 -> 56:31.000] y werth dwr o edrych ar eich bobl.
[56:31.000 -> 56:32.000] Ie, yn enwedig.
[56:32.000 -> 56:34.000] Rwy'n credu'r ffras y gweithiodd James
[56:34.000 -> 56:35.000] am ddiddorol.
[56:35.000 -> 56:36.000] Diddorol yw rhywbeth
[56:36.000 -> 56:37.000] pan fyddwch chi'n gofyn i mi
[56:37.000 -> 56:38.000] sut y gallwch chi ddatblygu ddiddorol,
[56:38.000 -> 56:39.000] yw dweud, dynnu hwnnw.
[56:39.000 -> 56:40.000] Ac yna gall y bobl
[56:40.000 -> 56:41.000] dim ond ei rhedeg.
[56:41.000 -> 56:43.000] Dyna ddau penderfyniad.
[56:43.000 -> 56:46.060] Yn eithaf, yw'n eithaf'n gynllunio a'i ddiddorol y dyddorol rydych chi wedi'i ddynnu neu y gallent ddynnu hwnnw. Ond, y ffordd bynnag, people can only lose it. They can only, there's two options. They either reinforce it and cherish the trust that you've given them,
[56:46.180 -> 56:49.900] or they can lose it. But either way, you're smarter for the process of it.
[56:50.140 -> 56:53.580] And trust lies at the heart of the way that he treats his staff and how they
[56:53.580 -> 56:57.500] subsequently treat their customers and the wider community they're a part of.
[56:59.420 -> 57:02.620] I honestly can't thank James enough for coming on and being part of the podcast.
[57:02.660 -> 57:05.360] I actually, there's, there's a Timpson just
[57:05.360 -> 57:09.040] down the road from me and I found myself popping in there now just to chat to the staff because I
[57:09.040 -> 57:15.520] feel like I understand the business, I know what they're about, I know the ethos of them and I just
[57:16.240 -> 57:21.760] think everyone, every big businessman, every shop on the high street, every small business person
[57:22.800 -> 57:28.500] can just learn something from them. You can be successful and you can also be good and I think it's such an important message.
[57:28.500 -> 57:34.000] So please keep spreading the message about the things that James spoke about on today's podcast.
[57:34.000 -> 57:37.700] Just a quick reminder that you can buy the high-performance book.
[57:37.700 -> 57:38.800] It can be pre-ordered right now.
[57:38.800 -> 57:40.400] It's coming your way at the end of the year.
[57:40.400 -> 57:44.000] It's so much more than just the things that we've learned on this podcast.
[57:44.000 -> 57:49.160] Damian and I are working so hard on it. We're already so proud of it and we are really keen
[57:49.160 -> 57:54.840] that you enjoy it as well. So just go to the description in this podcast to pre-order the
[57:54.840 -> 58:00.480] High Performance book. And we've also created a members only area called the High Performance
[58:00.480 -> 58:07.320] Circle. The good news is all you have to do to become a member is head to the highperformancepodcast.com and
[58:07.760 -> 58:11.820] Sign up you'll then get your invite and you will be in the circle
[58:11.940 -> 58:17.600] So if you want even more from the high performance podcast if you want to be part of the real high performance community
[58:17.720 -> 58:19.720] Head to the highperformancepodcast.com
[58:21.520 -> 58:26.200] Sign up and you'll get your invites to be part of the high performance circle.
[58:26.200 -> 58:30.500] Thanks to Hannah, thanks to Will, thanks to Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio for his hard
[58:30.500 -> 58:35.680] work on the episode of this high performance podcast, but most of all, thanks to you for
[58:35.680 -> 58:51.480] listening. Bye!