E51 - Toto Wolff: Empathy over engineering

Toto Wolff is Team Principal & CEO of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team. After a short racing career competing in Austrian Formula Ford, Toto pursued a business career and found a new outlet for his talent – investment. He founded his own investment companies and in November 2009, Toto merged his passion for racing and investment by investing in the Williams F1 Team. 

By July 2012, Toto was the Executive Director of the team, playing a key leadership role as Williams scored its first win in eight years that season. Less than a year later, Toto was announced as managing partner of the Mercedes-AMG F1 Team in January 2013 after purchasing a 30 per cent stake of Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Ltd.

Subsequently appointed Head of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport at the end of 2013, Toto went on to assume full responsibility for the entire Mercedes-Benz motorsport programme. Under his leadership, the Mercedes-AMG F1 Team has clinched seven consecutive Formula One Double World Championships.

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**Section 1: Introduction of Toto Wolff**

* Toto Wolff is the Team Principal and CEO of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team.
* He has a successful career in investment and joined the Williams F1 Team in 2009, leading them to their first win in eight years in 2012.
* In 2013, he became the managing partner of the Mercedes-AMG F1 Team and Head of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport, leading the team to seven consecutive Formula One Double World Championships.

**Section 2: Importance of High Performance**

* High performance, according to Toto Wolff, is meeting one's own expectations and scoring in the KPIs.
* Success in personal life, such as a happy family, is also considered high performance.
* He emphasizes the importance of honesty with oneself and constantly looking for areas of improvement.

**Section 3: Childhood Trauma and Its Impact**

* Toto Wolff experienced the loss of his father during his teenage years, which led to a sense of insecurity and a desire to take control of his life.
* He acknowledges that this trauma shaped his mindset and made him more driven to succeed.
* However, he emphasizes the importance of not being defined by past experiences and working towards reducing the impact of childhood memories on present life.

**Section 4: Creating a Culture of Safety and Psychological Safety**

* Toto Wolff believes in creating a safe and secure environment for his team members, both in his personal life and in his professional role.
* He sees his role as protecting his team and taking on the burden of adversity to ensure their well-being.
* This approach extends to the Mercedes F1 Team, where he strives to foster a culture of psychological safety, allowing team members to feel supported and valued.

**Section 5: Establishing Values and Overcoming Resistance**

* When Toto Wolff joined Mercedes F1, he identified the need for a clear set of values to guide the team's culture.
* He emphasized values such as integrity, loyalty, respect, attention to detail, and fanatical obsession with the work.
* He encountered resistance from some team members who were accustomed to a different culture, but he remained persistent in his efforts to instill these values.

**Section 6: Imparting Values and Engaging Team Members**

* Toto Wolff believes that simply handing out a values booklet or displaying slogans on the wall is not enough to impact individuals.
* He emphasizes the importance of living by the values and demonstrating them through actions and behaviors.
* He shares an example of a town hall meeting where he made a commitment to the team, which helped build trust and engagement.

**Section 7: Developing a Long-Term Perspective and Patience**

* Toto Wolff acknowledges that he is often perceived as impatient, as he expects things to be done quickly and efficiently.
* However, he also recognizes the value of patience and the need to allow things to develop over time.
* He believes that a long-term perspective is essential for achieving sustained success and avoiding knee-jerk reactions.

**Section 8: Defining Factors for Success in Formula One**

* Toto Wolff attributes the success of the Mercedes F1 Team to a combination of factors, including attention to detail, hard work, and a strong sense of camaraderie within the team.
* He emphasizes the importance of empowering team members, blaming problems rather than individuals, and fostering open communication.
* He also highlights the unconditional support and lack of politics within the team as key contributors to their success.

**Section 9: Dealing with Difficult Periods and Learning from Mistakes**

* Toto Wolff emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes and using difficult periods as opportunities for growth.
* He encourages team members to speak up and identify issues, rather than blaming individuals.
* He cites an example of how the team's poor performance in Singapore led to a thorough analysis and subsequent improvements, resulting in dominance in the following year's race.

**Section 10: The Role of People and Processes in Success**

* Toto Wolff believes that success is ultimately driven by people, as they are the ones who create and implement processes.
* He emphasizes the importance of meditation and positive energy in creating a high-performance environment.
* He acknowledges that data, engineering, and stability are also essential factors, but they are all made possible by the contributions of the team members.

**Section 11: Recruiting for Values and Cultural Fit**

* Toto Wolff highlights the importance of recruiting individuals who align with the team's values and culture.
* He believes that talent alone is not enough, and that behavior and values are crucial for long-term success.
* He describes his approach to interviewing candidates, relying on intuition and a keen eye for recognizing individuals who would fit well within the team's structure.

# Toto Wolff: The Formula One Team Principal and CEO

### Key Points:

- Toto Wolff is the Team Principal and CEO of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team.
- He joined the team in 2013 and has led them to seven consecutive Formula One Double World Championships.
- Wolff emphasizes the importance of cognitive diversity and recruiting individuals with different backgrounds and perspectives.
- He highlights the value of persistence and never letting go when pursuing goals.
- Wolff believes in empowering his team members and providing them with the necessary resources and support to succeed.
- He emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding the individual needs of drivers and team members to get the best out of them.
- Wolff acknowledges the challenges of managing driver relationships and the need to maintain a positive team dynamic.
- He stresses the importance of having clear rules of engagement and expectations for drivers to avoid conflicts and maintain team cohesion.
- Wolff discusses the importance of constantly evolving and reinventing oneself to stay motivated and prevent complacency.
- He emphasizes the value of authenticity and being true to oneself, even with one's weaknesses.
- Wolff believes in living in the present and focusing on continuous improvement rather than dwelling on legacy.
- He acknowledges that there is no single golden rule for success and that different situations require different approaches.

### Main Discussion Points:

**1. Cognitive Diversity and Recruitment:**
- Wolff emphasizes the importance of cognitive diversity in the team and seeks to recruit individuals from diverse backgrounds and experiences.
- He believes that this diversity leads to a variety of opinions and perspectives, which helps the team make better decisions.
- Wolff acknowledges that he made mistakes in the past by prioritizing academic credentials over passion and understanding of the sport.

**2. Persistence and Never Letting Go:**
- Wolff highlights the value of persistence and determination in achieving goals.
- He emphasizes the need to never give up, even when faced with challenges and obstacles.
- Wolff uses the example of defending the team's interests against other teams, regulators, and sponsors as a situation where persistence is crucial.

**3. Empowering Team Members:**
- Wolff believes in empowering his team members and giving them the autonomy and resources they need to succeed.
- He provides them with the necessary funding, facilitates interactions, and allows for arguments to achieve the best outcome.
- Wolff emphasizes the importance of being a role model and learning from the people around him.

**4. Empathy and Understanding:**
- Wolff highlights the importance of empathy and understanding the individual needs of drivers and team members to get the best out of them.
- He believes in putting himself in their shoes and comprehending their fears, anxieties, and motivating factors.
- Wolff emphasizes the need for support and encouragement, especially in difficult times.

**5. Managing Driver Relationships:**
- Wolff acknowledges the challenges of managing driver relationships, especially when they are competing against each other.
- He emphasizes the importance of recognizing that the best drivers are often the edgiest and most difficult personalities.
- Wolff believes that these drivers need to understand the importance of teamwork and the support of the entire team to perform well.

**6. Rules of Engagement and Team Dynamics:**
- Wolff stresses the importance of having clear rules of engagement and expectations for drivers to avoid conflicts and maintain team cohesion.
- He highlights the need for drivers to respect the team, the brand, and their teammates.
- Wolff emphasizes the consequences of negative behavior and the potential for disciplinary action if necessary.

**7. Constant Evolution and Reinvention:**
- Wolff discusses the importance of constantly evolving and reinventing oneself to stay motivated and prevent complacency.
- He believes that teams can become complacent after achieving success, leading to a decline in performance.
- Wolff emphasizes the need to bring in new talent, empower younger team members, and redefine objectives to maintain a competitive edge.

**8. Authenticity and Being True to Oneself:**
- Wolff emphasizes the value of authenticity and being true to oneself, even with one's weaknesses.
- He believes that people should find out where their skills lie and what they enjoy doing, rather than trying to fit into a mold.
- Wolff acknowledges that everyone has weaknesses, but these weaknesses can also contribute to a team's success.

**9. Living in the Present and Focusing on Improvement:**
- Wolff believes in living in the present and focusing on continuous improvement rather than dwelling on legacy.
- He emphasizes the importance of acknowledging that success is fleeting and that teams need to constantly evolve to stay ahead.
- Wolff believes that legacy is not important and that people should focus on adding value to the lives of those around them.

**10. No Golden Rule for Success:**
- Wolff acknowledges that there is no single golden rule for success and that different situations require different approaches.
- He believes that there are many rules that contribute to success, but no one rule can guarantee it.
- Wolff emphasizes the importance of adapting to changing circumstances and finding creative solutions to challenges.

## Toto Wolff: The Art of Leadership in Formula One

### Introduction

Toto Wolff, Team Principal & CEO of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team, shares his insights on leadership, authenticity, and creating a high-performance culture in Formula One.

### Authenticity and Transparency: The Cornerstones of Leadership

- Wolff emphasizes the importance of authenticity and transparency in leadership.
- He believes in being straightforward, honest, and admitting mistakes, setting an example for his team.
- This approach fosters trust and psychological safety within the team, encouraging open communication and risk-taking.

### Empowering the Team: Creating a Culture of Psychological Safety

- Wolff recognizes the importance of empowering team members and creating a culture where they feel safe to express their opinions and ideas.
- He encourages his team to admit errors and seek help when needed, fostering a collaborative and supportive environment.
- This culture of psychological safety allows team members to take calculated risks and innovate without fear of negative consequences.

### Balance and Sacrifice: The Pursuit of High Performance

- Wolff acknowledges the challenges of achieving balance between personal life and the demands of high-performance pursuits.
- He emphasizes the need for individuals to prioritize and make conscious decisions about their time and energy allocation.
- Wolff suggests surrounding oneself with people who can provide honest feedback and help maintain a healthy balance.

### The Importance of Truth-Tellers: Surrounding Yourself with Honest Feedback

- Wolff stresses the value of having truth-tellers around him, individuals who are willing to provide honest and critical feedback.
- He believes that surrounding oneself with "yes men" can lead to complacency and hinder growth.
- Truth-tellers help leaders identify blind spots, challenge assumptions, and make better decisions.

### Learning from Diverse Perspectives: Embracing Different Viewpoints

- Wolff encourages seeking out and embracing diverse perspectives, even if they conflict with one's own beliefs.
- He emphasizes the importance of challenging assumptions and considering alternative viewpoints to make informed decisions.
- This open-mindedness allows leaders to adapt to changing circumstances and stay ahead of the competition.

### Conclusion: The Power of Authenticity and Psychological Safety

- Wolff's leadership philosophy revolves around authenticity, transparency, and the creation of a culture of psychological safety.
- He believes that by empowering team members, fostering open communication, and embracing diverse perspectives, leaders can unlock the full potential of their teams and achieve sustained high performance.

# Toto Wolff: Journey and Success in Formula One

## Introduction:
Toto Wolff, the Team Principal and CEO of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team, is an influential figure in Formula One. This summary delves into his career, leadership, and the team's remarkable achievements under his stewardship.

## Background and Early Career:
- Toto Wolff's passion for racing began with his participation in Austrian Formula Ford.
- He transitioned to a business career, establishing his own investment companies.

## Merging Passion and Investment:
- In November 2009, Toto Wolff combined his love for racing and investment by acquiring a stake in the Williams F1 Team.
- He played a key leadership role, contributing to the team's first win in eight years during the 2012 season.

## Arrival at Mercedes-AMG F1 Team:
- In January 2013, Toto Wolff became the managing partner of the Mercedes-AMG F1 Team, acquiring a 30% stake in Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Ltd.
- He assumed full responsibility for the entire Mercedes-Benz motorsport program as Head of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport at the end of 2013.

## Unprecedented Success:
- Under Toto Wolff's leadership, the Mercedes-AMG F1 Team has achieved remarkable success, clinching seven consecutive Formula One Double World Championships.
- This unprecedented run of dominance has cemented the team's status as a powerhouse in Formula One.

## The High Performance Podcast:
- Toto Wolff's participation in the High Performance Podcast provides insights into his journey, leadership style, and the team's success.
- The podcast offers extended episodes on YouTube and engages with fans on Instagram.

## Conclusion:
Toto Wolff's vision, strategic acumen, and unwavering dedication have transformed the Mercedes-AMG F1 Team into a formidable force in Formula One. The team's unprecedented success under his leadership has redefined the sport's competitive landscape.

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[03:14.000 -> 03:17.000] I honestly think this is one of the best episodes we've ever recorded.
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[03:21.000 -> 03:24.000] Damien, we are releasing a book in December.
[03:24.000 -> 03:26.320] People are already pre-ordering it.
[03:26.320 -> 03:27.320] Can you believe that?
[03:27.320 -> 03:30.240] I know, it's a fantastic compliment, isn't it?
[03:30.240 -> 03:34.920] People trust us enough that they're prepared to order it and then wait a number of months.
[03:34.920 -> 03:38.600] So yeah, thank you for everybody that's done that.
[03:38.600 -> 03:42.360] Kate on Insta says, will your book be available in the US, Damien?
[03:42.360 -> 03:43.360] Yes, it will.
[03:43.360 -> 03:44.360] It'll be available worldwide.
[03:44.360 -> 03:45.000] Are you just guessing that answer? Yes, it will. It'll be available worldwide.
[03:45.000 -> 03:46.280] Are you just guessing that answer?
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[03:58.200 -> 03:59.320] I asked you that because I knew there'd be
[03:59.320 -> 04:00.920] a bit of your head thinking,
[04:00.920 -> 04:02.600] is it available? I think it is.
[04:02.600 -> 04:05.400] Yeah, one of the great things about this pod
[04:05.400 -> 04:08.120] is that we've got a really big listenership in the States,
[04:08.120 -> 04:11.720] in South Africa, in Australia, and in many other countries.
[04:11.720 -> 04:14.140] So we are going to make sure that our book is available
[04:14.140 -> 04:15.200] wherever you want it.
[04:15.200 -> 04:17.700] There's also a question, will there be an audio book?
[04:17.700 -> 04:18.720] There will.
[04:18.720 -> 04:20.520] I don't know, Damien, whether we like,
[04:20.520 -> 04:22.280] do we do like heads or tails or something
[04:22.280 -> 04:23.920] to work out who does the audio book?
[04:23.920 -> 04:28.800] Do I just leave it to you with your dulcet Manchester tones? I'm not sure. I think we should bring in some
[04:28.800 -> 04:33.760] Shakespearean actors, Jake, to deliver the lines with a real aplomb. I think that would go down
[04:33.760 -> 04:40.240] really well. Deal. And on that note, here it is, this week's High Performance Podcast.
[04:43.360 -> 04:47.980] Hi there, this is High Performance. Jake and Damien delving into the minds of the planet's
[04:47.980 -> 04:53.600] most successful artists, visionaries, entrepreneurs and leaders with one clear aim, to unlock
[04:53.600 -> 04:58.840] the lessons they've learned so you can apply them to your life. Professor Damien Hughes,
[04:58.840 -> 05:02.600] expert in high achieving team cultures is with me as ever. And Damien, we were WhatsAppping
[05:02.600 -> 05:05.960] each other earlier this morning, sharing our excitement about today's guest.
[05:05.960 -> 05:08.520] And I'm not sure I've ever said this on the podcast before,
[05:08.520 -> 05:11.040] but this guy is something of a hero of mine,
[05:11.040 -> 05:14.320] because I think to excel in an engineering heavy sport
[05:14.320 -> 05:17.040] by using people skills is something
[05:17.040 -> 05:18.240] that we should all be celebrating.
[05:18.240 -> 05:20.920] I'm so impressed by him on a weekly basis.
[05:20.920 -> 05:23.520] Yeah, I think I share your excitement today, Jake.
[05:23.520 -> 05:26.440] It's I'm barely looking forward to exploring
[05:26.440 -> 05:27.440] this conversation.
[05:27.440 -> 05:31.120] I had a phrase that kept coming to mind about this guest
[05:31.120 -> 05:34.160] that if you persistent, you'll get it.
[05:34.160 -> 05:35.960] If you're consistent, you'll keep it.
[05:35.960 -> 05:39.320] And I think this person has sustained success for so long.
[05:39.320 -> 05:40.960] I think there's so much we can learn.
[05:40.960 -> 05:43.840] So there you go, consistency and persistency.
[05:43.840 -> 05:51.200] Let's get on with it then and welcome a businessman, a husband, a father, a leader, a winner. You may well know him as the Formula One
[05:51.200 -> 05:56.640] team boss who's led his squad to seven successive double world championships more than anyone else,
[05:56.640 -> 06:01.680] making him the most successful leader in that sport. But what you most likely won't know is
[06:01.680 -> 06:05.000] the trauma that shaped his childhood, the clear decision-making
[06:05.000 -> 06:09.840] that shapes his investing, the sacrifices he makes that shapes the Mercedes culture
[06:09.840 -> 06:14.540] and the authenticity he lives by that will most likely shape his legacy.
[06:14.540 -> 06:18.840] So it's our absolute pleasure to welcome to the High Performance Podcast, Toto Wolff.
[06:18.840 -> 06:19.840] Welcome.
[06:19.840 -> 06:21.400] Thank you for having me.
[06:21.400 -> 06:24.840] And I'm speechless with the compliments I received.
[06:24.840 -> 06:26.600] I probably shouldn't say anything anymore
[06:26.600 -> 06:29.660] because it's gonna only be worse than your introduction.
[06:30.600 -> 06:32.000] That's the end of the episode then.
[06:32.000 -> 06:33.800] Thanks for coming on.
[06:33.800 -> 06:35.920] Look, Toto, we always start with the same question
[06:35.920 -> 06:37.340] to all of our guests.
[06:37.340 -> 06:41.800] What in your mind constitutes high performance?
[06:41.800 -> 06:49.600] High performance is scoring in the KPIs you said yourself. It's meeting my
[06:50.240 -> 06:59.440] own expectations. What I am doing is always trying to not do anything for anybody else's perception
[07:00.560 -> 07:09.600] or anybody else's definition of success, but only for what I would judge as a success in my own life.
[07:10.640 -> 07:13.320] And it's not only about the sport or business,
[07:13.320 -> 07:17.040] it's the most important part is in having a successful
[07:17.040 -> 07:19.280] marriage and a happy family life.
[07:19.280 -> 07:22.600] And everything else is comes just much further down the line.
[07:22.600 -> 07:24.720] So if everything is about matching up
[07:24.720 -> 07:25.080] to your own
[07:25.080 -> 07:28.680] expectations, how honest are you with yourself?
[07:29.080 -> 07:31.440] In my early business life, there was a motto we had in our
[07:31.440 -> 07:34.880] investment company. And that was that for every startup that we
[07:34.880 -> 07:39.520] looked at, we wanted to tell them the brutal truth, because
[07:39.520 -> 07:43.200] it makes no sense to mislead anybody. And it makes no sense
[07:43.200 -> 07:48.080] to mislead yourself. So I'm brutally honest with myself every day,
[07:48.080 -> 07:49.960] in the evening, looking at the mirror,
[07:49.960 -> 07:51.960] washing my face, brushing my teeth,
[07:51.960 -> 07:54.400] I judge myself and I say, how was today?
[07:54.400 -> 07:56.120] Where do you think there is room for improvement?
[07:56.120 -> 08:00.120] I never look at the positives in the same way
[08:00.120 -> 08:01.920] that I look at the negatives.
[08:01.920 -> 08:04.840] So if I can take you back to the beginning of your story
[08:04.840 -> 08:05.680] then, Toto,
[08:05.680 -> 08:10.080] that's a really interesting philosophy that you always look at what you can improve
[08:10.080 -> 08:13.000] as opposed to what you have achieved.
[08:13.000 -> 08:16.360] Where did that mindset start to develop then?
[08:16.360 -> 08:17.640] I don't really know.
[08:17.640 -> 08:23.160] I couldn't pinpoint it to a single situation in my life.
[08:23.160 -> 08:27.560] It has probably been part of my upbringing,
[08:27.560 -> 08:32.380] always expect the worst. There is no positive surprises, there is only the
[08:32.380 -> 08:37.120] risk of failure, and that is something that has followed me all my life, and
[08:37.120 -> 08:41.240] it's not something that I'm doing on purpose, because negativity can be quite
[08:41.240 -> 08:45.460] harmful. So finding the balance when communicating to others is
[08:45.460 -> 08:49.120] sometimes a bit tricky because I'm always seeing things from a half-empty
[08:49.120 -> 08:54.200] glass perspective. And do you think some of that was shaped by the trauma of
[08:54.200 -> 08:59.400] losing your father in your teenage years then? Yes for sure because it was not
[08:59.400 -> 09:11.160] only losing my father but losing a family situation, losing security, I think, for a child or for a young
[09:11.160 -> 09:14.660] adult, having a lack of security.
[09:14.660 -> 09:18.440] And I see this with my children today, that safety is the most important, the feeling
[09:18.440 -> 09:19.440] of being protected.
[09:19.440 -> 09:24.200] If you lose that, it can make you a more successful person in terms of the definition that is
[09:24.200 -> 09:25.920] commonly understood,
[09:25.920 -> 09:29.200] as long as it doesn't go into really traumatic experiences,
[09:29.200 -> 09:32.240] because there is a clear differentiation between trauma
[09:32.240 -> 09:37.240] and trauma is definitely a more severe situation.
[09:37.520 -> 09:40.760] So yeah, definitely needing to grow up
[09:40.760 -> 09:45.000] to take the life of my mother, my sister,
[09:45.120 -> 09:46.360] into my own hands.
[09:46.360 -> 09:48.400] And as long as I can remember,
[09:48.400 -> 09:52.140] I only wanted to get out there and look after them,
[09:52.140 -> 09:54.000] be able to earn my own money
[09:54.000 -> 09:56.840] and not be ever dependent again on anybody else.
[09:56.840 -> 09:58.920] And do you think that that drives you even today,
[09:58.920 -> 10:01.280] all these years later, Toto?
[10:01.280 -> 10:02.280] I think it changes.
[10:02.280 -> 10:05.760] I'm trying to develop also as a human being.
[10:06.640 -> 10:14.000] Certainly I'm working very hard on reducing what is childhood memories and the real life today.
[10:14.000 -> 10:20.720] I'm not anymore the boy that back in the day and I don't need to carry so much baggage from the
[10:20.720 -> 10:25.680] past into today's lives. But it's still there. It's still who I am.
[10:25.680 -> 10:27.080] I acknowledge it.
[10:27.080 -> 10:29.840] It makes no sense to try to ignore
[10:29.840 -> 10:32.040] because it is part of who I am.
[10:32.040 -> 10:33.760] And that is sometimes difficult,
[10:33.760 -> 10:37.680] but it's also important to just accept that.
[10:37.680 -> 10:41.760] Yeah, it's interesting when you talk about working hard
[10:41.760 -> 10:43.960] at this age, not to be defined, if you like,
[10:43.960 -> 10:44.800] by that trauma.
[10:44.800 -> 10:46.980] I wonder whether there was a period
[10:46.980 -> 10:48.940] where it was almost, it was too much.
[10:48.940 -> 10:49.960] Maybe when you were younger,
[10:49.960 -> 10:51.900] it was still important because it drove you
[10:51.900 -> 10:54.160] and it pushed you and it reminded you
[10:54.160 -> 10:55.820] to always expect the worst, as you said.
[10:55.820 -> 10:57.820] But there's a balance, isn't there?
[10:57.820 -> 11:00.680] You don't want to be having that too strong,
[11:00.680 -> 11:02.220] too heavy in your life.
[11:02.220 -> 11:03.820] Yes, I would say you need to be careful
[11:03.820 -> 11:06.720] with everybody's perception of childhood
[11:06.720 -> 11:10.680] will contain some kind of anxieties,
[11:10.680 -> 11:14.200] humiliations, bad moments.
[11:14.200 -> 11:17.000] And what is commonly seen as trauma
[11:17.000 -> 11:18.160] is actually not real trauma,
[11:18.160 -> 11:21.240] because real trauma is when you're in a war situation,
[11:21.240 -> 11:27.600] where you've seen abuse that leaves real scars that are almost
[11:27.600 -> 11:29.600] impossible to heal.
[11:29.600 -> 11:32.840] But what happened to me wasn't any of that.
[11:32.840 -> 11:37.720] What happened to me will have happened to many people, and it's just what you make out
[11:37.720 -> 11:38.720] of it.
[11:38.720 -> 11:48.280] And today I'm able to see the positives, the positives that constantly push me, that never allow me to rest with the fear
[11:48.280 -> 11:52.040] of that this might end and trigger a negative situation.
[11:52.040 -> 12:00.640] But whilst saying that, I'm not a hostage of my job or a hostage of success, because
[12:00.640 -> 12:03.680] that's not part of what brings you ultimate happiness.
[12:03.680 -> 12:06.880] It's just much more finding out what you actually want
[12:06.880 -> 12:08.840] and that changes.
[12:08.840 -> 12:12.400] So I'm intrigued by that phrase that you use, Toto,
[12:12.400 -> 12:15.600] around creating an environment of safety,
[12:15.600 -> 12:17.520] that you said that all children need it,
[12:17.520 -> 12:20.440] but equally it sounds that all cultures
[12:20.440 -> 12:23.720] are built on this sense of psychological safety.
[12:23.720 -> 12:26.320] So how do you go about creating that
[12:26.320 -> 12:29.680] both in your personal life and in your professional?
[12:29.680 -> 12:32.440] In my personal life, it's not all one directional.
[12:32.440 -> 12:36.680] I must say that today I have a wife, Susie,
[12:36.680 -> 12:40.140] who is very strong in her own right.
[12:40.140 -> 12:44.680] And when I'm vulnerable or not in the best need,
[12:44.680 -> 12:49.560] and she's the one who keeps the ship steady sailing.
[12:49.560 -> 12:50.560] And that's important.
[12:50.560 -> 12:53.320] So our relationship is very much balanced.
[12:53.320 -> 12:57.640] There's not one that would entirely rely his life
[12:57.640 -> 12:58.560] on the other.
[12:58.560 -> 12:59.960] It's both of us.
[12:59.960 -> 13:02.400] And I have young adult children.
[13:02.400 -> 13:04.760] I have a son that's 19 years old,
[13:04.760 -> 13:06.320] just finished his military service,
[13:06.320 -> 13:07.960] goes to study in the US.
[13:07.960 -> 13:09.600] And sometimes when I talk with him,
[13:09.600 -> 13:14.600] it's becoming less of a father advises son situation,
[13:14.680 -> 13:17.680] but also son advises father.
[13:17.680 -> 13:20.660] And he comes out with things that are so intelligent
[13:20.660 -> 13:22.760] and in a way surprising for me,
[13:22.760 -> 13:25.000] but I'm also very, very proud.
[13:25.000 -> 13:27.000] And the same with my daughter.
[13:27.000 -> 13:32.000] So security is immensely important, and I'm trying to do the same in the company.
[13:32.000 -> 13:41.000] I'm protecting, protecting the people, which I see a little bit like my tribe.
[13:41.000 -> 13:48.520] We are on this joint mission, on this journey together. And part of my role is to have big enough shoulders to
[13:48.520 -> 13:51.840] take some of the adversity that's hitting us. And I will
[13:51.860 -> 13:55.800] try to my best and never let anybody down in the team. And I
[13:55.800 -> 13:59.440] think there's something that's being felt, but it's not
[13:59.520 -> 14:02.760] something that I actively do. It's something which is inherent,
[14:03.120 -> 14:05.720] is part of who I am, and I don't feel any pressure with it.
[14:05.720 -> 14:09.840] It's really interesting. So let's go back then to when you walked through the door at
[14:09.840 -> 14:15.880] Mercedes. Had you decided the culture you wanted to create in that organisation before
[14:15.880 -> 14:20.560] you arrived? Or did you arrive, take a look, make your decisions?
[14:20.560 -> 14:27.320] I was 40 years old, 39 years old, and I had a clear understanding of what I wanted.
[14:27.320 -> 14:32.940] I've been with Williams for a while, been a non-executive director at Williams, looking
[14:32.940 -> 14:36.620] at it purely as a financial investment.
[14:36.620 -> 14:41.740] And in the last year of my Williams life, I was managing the team in 2012, which I took
[14:41.740 -> 14:46.720] great enjoyment of being there with Frank. It was a solid year, we won a
[14:46.720 -> 14:52.640] race with Pastor Maldonado against all odds and that's why I always had a clear vision where I
[14:52.640 -> 14:58.400] wanted Williams to be and when I walked in the first time into Mercedes it wasn't what I wanted
[14:58.400 -> 15:04.560] it to be. And what did you want it to be? I mean the first day I walked in I arrived in reception
[15:07.040 -> 15:12.240] it to be? I mean the first day I walked in I arrived in reception and I sat down in reception and it didn't look like a Formula One team. There was an old Daily Mail on the table from
[15:12.240 -> 15:18.880] the previous week and coffee cups that had the dry coffee and I couldn't believe that this was
[15:18.880 -> 15:25.840] the Mercedes Formula One team. And now you may say how do dry coffee cups or an old
[15:25.840 -> 15:28.680] daily mail impact on the performance of a Formula One
[15:28.680 -> 15:34.360] team? But it shows an attitude, it shows attention to detail.
[15:35.040 -> 15:37.320] And I think this is most important for a high tech team
[15:37.320 -> 15:41.000] and all these soft factors that many will ignore, because it's
[15:41.000 -> 15:46.880] not data, it's not aerodynamics, it's not vehicle dynamics that make a car faster,
[15:46.880 -> 15:49.880] but all that is part of the values of a team.
[15:49.880 -> 15:51.820] And if everybody runs in the same direction,
[15:51.820 -> 15:55.120] everybody acknowledges that attention to detail is important,
[15:55.120 -> 15:58.220] then eventually the wheel is gonna gain some momentum.
[15:58.220 -> 16:01.400] And so that was my first experience with Mercedes F1.
[16:01.400 -> 16:04.200] See, so when you identify values like that,
[16:04.200 -> 16:06.520] such as the number that you've just described
[16:06.520 -> 16:13.920] there, like attention to detail and caring about image and perception, to go and introduce
[16:13.920 -> 16:19.320] them into a world like that, did you meet opposition or resistance along the way when
[16:19.320 -> 16:27.600] you came in and started preaching those messages? I came into the situation almost like an unknown man.
[16:27.960 -> 16:32.360] I've made a success out of my investment life,
[16:32.360 -> 16:34.080] but in Formula One, it's a little bit
[16:34.080 -> 16:36.160] of an incest environment.
[16:36.160 -> 16:39.360] Everybody seems to be rotating from one team to the other.
[16:39.360 -> 16:42.800] And where I felt resistance, I tried to convince,
[16:42.800 -> 16:45.880] where I couldn't convince, it ended.
[16:45.880 -> 16:47.880] And I think that's very important,
[16:47.880 -> 16:49.760] but I give everybody credit.
[16:49.760 -> 16:53.960] The chance to develop, to agree on a path forward.
[16:53.960 -> 16:55.060] And sometimes I'm wrong.
[16:55.060 -> 16:59.280] So I really like the discussion with competent people
[16:59.280 -> 17:02.660] and come to a joint opinion.
[17:02.660 -> 17:07.640] And I must say, when you speak about me setting the values,
[17:08.080 -> 17:11.760] if you think you can change the world by yourself,
[17:11.760 -> 17:14.600] unless you're Elon Musk, maybe,
[17:14.600 -> 17:15.920] we don't know any of the people
[17:15.920 -> 17:20.120] who really make Tesla fly, interestingly,
[17:20.120 -> 17:21.440] as a marketing strategy.
[17:21.440 -> 17:25.680] But also, I have just a great group of people around me.
[17:25.680 -> 17:28.800] I take much too much credit for their achievements
[17:28.800 -> 17:32.400] and creating the values was part of the leadership that I
[17:32.400 -> 17:36.560] that I have today. I could name you 10 people that I'm actively
[17:36.560 -> 17:41.120] engaging every week and all of us played a part in creating
[17:41.120 -> 17:42.400] the values.
[17:42.400 -> 17:46.280] And what were they Toto? So if you were to summarize them,
[17:46.280 -> 17:48.280] what were the most important values
[17:48.280 -> 17:51.480] that you and your colleagues did identify
[17:51.480 -> 17:54.160] as the path to success?
[17:54.160 -> 17:57.120] Most important is character traits,
[17:57.120 -> 18:02.120] integrity, loyalty, respect for the individual,
[18:03.600 -> 18:05.000] attention to detail,
[18:05.860 -> 18:08.920] fanatical obsession with what you do.
[18:08.920 -> 18:10.400] I mean, I could sit here half an hour
[18:10.400 -> 18:12.680] and name you what I think is important,
[18:12.680 -> 18:16.000] but this may vary from person to person,
[18:16.000 -> 18:20.480] but I would say this is the core skeleton of the team.
[18:20.480 -> 18:23.520] And how do you impart what you want the team to be?
[18:23.520 -> 18:25.920] How you want people to interact with each other?
[18:25.920 -> 18:27.060] What really matters to you?
[18:27.060 -> 18:29.320] Because we go into businesses all the time
[18:29.320 -> 18:31.300] and there's big slogans on the wall
[18:31.300 -> 18:32.860] or they hand out a welcome booklet
[18:32.860 -> 18:34.900] and it has the things written in it.
[18:34.900 -> 18:35.840] There's no way of knowing
[18:35.840 -> 18:37.580] whether that really impacts individuals.
[18:37.580 -> 18:40.940] So what have you learned from the life you've lived
[18:40.940 -> 18:43.820] to really make people understand and get to their heart,
[18:43.820 -> 18:45.040] not just their head.
[18:51.840 -> 18:58.000] I have always taken great enjoyment in studying psychology. Something that was important for me to overcome my past is something that you can directly translate in your personal life,
[18:58.000 -> 19:06.840] the interactions with the human beings you engage with and obviously also the business life. Like you say, it's very easy to hand out a book
[19:06.840 -> 19:09.880] or put it on a wall in a PowerPoint and say,
[19:09.880 -> 19:11.640] this is how we are, this is who we are,
[19:11.640 -> 19:13.400] and this is our targets.
[19:13.400 -> 19:14.520] And if it would be easy,
[19:14.520 -> 19:16.600] it wouldn't create a differentiator.
[19:16.600 -> 19:19.960] And in that spot, it is important to actually live
[19:19.960 -> 19:21.120] by your values.
[19:21.120 -> 19:22.980] And I give you one example.
[19:22.980 -> 19:26.400] The first day I had the opportunity
[19:26.400 -> 19:29.800] to have a town hall in Mercedes, it was Ross and I.
[19:29.800 -> 19:33.000] And Ross introduced me to the employees.
[19:33.000 -> 19:36.240] And what I said at the beginning or at the end
[19:36.240 -> 19:39.680] of my little monologue was that this time
[19:39.680 -> 19:41.160] it would be very different.
[19:41.160 -> 19:43.320] That there wouldn't be an ownership change
[19:43.320 -> 19:50.640] every couple of years because those guys were BAR, then Honda, then Braun,
[19:50.640 -> 19:53.480] run out of money, became Mercedes,
[19:53.480 -> 19:56.120] had an Abu Dhabi investor, and then suddenly it's
[19:56.120 -> 19:57.680] Niki and I showing up.
[19:57.680 -> 20:00.240] So not really stability.
[20:00.240 -> 20:01.600] So I said, it will be different.
[20:01.600 -> 20:03.920] This is a long-term shareholding.
[20:03.920 -> 20:06.680] I will look after the team in a way
[20:06.680 -> 20:09.400] that I will try to engage with Daimler,
[20:09.400 -> 20:12.760] that we get the best out of this almighty brand
[20:12.760 -> 20:15.920] and powerhouse whilst protecting the culture
[20:15.920 -> 20:19.040] of a mid-sized company that is Mercedes.
[20:19.040 -> 20:20.880] And I made all these nice sentences
[20:20.880 -> 20:24.960] and very proud of myself, not.
[20:24.960 -> 20:25.160] And then everybody left the room. sentences and very proud of myself not.
[20:25.160 -> 20:31.960] And everybody left the room and at the very end there was one guy from the machine shop
[20:31.960 -> 20:35.760] and he stopped at the little podium that I was standing on it.
[20:35.760 -> 20:39.880] He said nice words and he left.
[20:39.880 -> 20:47.280] And I knew that these people were the history showed them that you couldn't rely on what the big Jesus told you.
[20:47.280 -> 20:52.280] And it was part of my mission to prove him wrong
[20:53.240 -> 20:54.520] or make it different.
[20:54.520 -> 20:56.600] And I enjoy just being with,
[20:56.600 -> 21:00.040] just looking after the people and working with them.
[21:00.040 -> 21:02.200] See, there's a trait that I picked up
[21:02.200 -> 21:04.280] looking at your career history, Toto,
[21:04.280 -> 21:05.360] which is, Io, sy'n
[21:09.440 -> 21:14.480] ddim yn ystod y ffyrdd o wahanol ffyrdd, sy'n ymwneud â'r ddiddordeb o gyrfaoedd, y byddwch chi'n mynd i'w gynhyrchu, oherwydd yw'n ymwneud â'r busnes neu yw'n ymwneud â
[21:15.040 -> 21:19.120] Mercedes nawr, y byddwch chi'n teimlo cael y persbectif amserau
[21:20.000 -> 21:25.000] sy'n stopio cyfleuau nid-ddiddordeb neu cyflawni cymaint o bus. A oes gennych chi ddweud ychydig that stops knee-jerk reactions or boom and bust cycles.
[21:25.360 -> 21:26.520] Would you tell us a little bit more
[21:26.520 -> 21:29.480] about how you've developed that long-term perspective
[21:29.480 -> 21:31.920] and the art of patience?
[21:31.920 -> 21:34.440] I think when you would ask the people
[21:34.440 -> 21:36.080] that work with me in the team,
[21:36.080 -> 21:38.000] they would rather say I'm impatient
[21:38.000 -> 21:40.080] because I want things changing now.
[21:40.080 -> 21:43.400] I'm exercising pressure to the point
[21:43.400 -> 21:46.080] where I think it's helpful and not beyond.
[21:46.080 -> 21:48.240] But I get on with things.
[21:48.240 -> 21:51.120] If I want to solve a problem, I pick up the phone.
[21:51.120 -> 21:53.880] And there's no postponement of any action.
[21:53.880 -> 21:58.560] But on the other side, life has proven to me that sometimes the things that you want
[21:58.560 -> 22:12.040] to achieve also need patience. And I enjoy that, to look for an outcome in my interaction with people or what I want
[22:12.040 -> 22:17.120] to achieve for this team. And it happens, but it happens over time. And it's almost
[22:17.120 -> 22:21.800] a self-discipline on being able to wait.
[22:21.800 -> 22:26.120] And we're sitting here and talking, Toto, on the verge of the new Formula One season,
[22:26.120 -> 22:27.960] where you will look to make it
[22:27.960 -> 22:31.020] eight double world championships in a row.
[22:31.020 -> 22:33.360] I think if we spoke to almost every team principal
[22:33.360 -> 22:34.920] in the Formula One paddock today,
[22:34.920 -> 22:38.680] they would talk about attention to detail and hard work
[22:38.680 -> 22:41.260] and making the team feel empowered.
[22:42.280 -> 22:48.000] But you are the ones that have won seven times on the bounce, constructors and drivers.
[22:48.000 -> 22:52.480] What do you think has been the defining factor in that?
[22:52.480 -> 22:55.680] How is your success so great when everyone else
[22:55.680 -> 22:58.640] is doing everything they can to be successful around you?
[22:58.640 -> 23:00.920] First of all, it makes me happy to hear these things now
[23:00.920 -> 23:02.040] from the paddock.
[23:02.040 -> 23:03.800] Clearly, some are just putting it on the wall
[23:03.800 -> 23:11.520] with a PowerPoint and expect this to happen, but others are really embracing that. And I believe that all of us,
[23:11.520 -> 23:17.840] we can increase each other's level and you just need somebody coming in and then raising the bar
[23:17.840 -> 23:27.120] and everybody else is going to try to achieve that. And I have made that experience recently. But what is the differentiator?
[23:27.120 -> 23:32.320] The differentiator is all those values that I could talk for a long time that lead also
[23:32.320 -> 23:37.560] to the camaraderie that we have within the team, that we are empowering, that we blame
[23:37.560 -> 23:48.400] the problem, that we communicate around hierarchies in terms of quickly solving the problem. Mercedes sport that gives us unconditional support
[23:48.400 -> 23:50.040] and no politics.
[23:50.040 -> 23:51.360] Politics you can do outside
[23:51.360 -> 23:54.700] to make things go towards your direction.
[23:54.700 -> 23:57.160] No allowance for politics inside the team,
[23:57.160 -> 24:01.000] no place for dickheads, the old blacks mentality.
[24:01.000 -> 24:02.840] So we use the phrase on the podcast,
[24:02.840 -> 24:07.080] Toto FIFO, fit in or F off that rings true?
[24:07.080 -> 24:15.160] That rings absolutely true you can't you can't embed the genius jerk.
[24:15.160 -> 24:19.400] Another one that we had one time was a an entrepreneur who joined us called
[24:19.400 -> 24:28.960] Holly Tucker and she said in her businesses she'd rather have a hole than an asshole. You guys on the island in the UK, you're rather polite.
[24:33.680 -> 24:37.040] I'll tell you what I'd really like to hear from you, Toto,
[24:37.040 -> 24:39.160] because all this is so fascinating,
[24:39.160 -> 24:41.440] but I want to understand how it actually works.
[24:41.440 -> 24:43.640] So could you take us back to,
[24:43.640 -> 24:45.280] there aren't many of them admittedly,
[24:45.280 -> 24:50.720] one of the difficult periods or a difficult day, something going wrong over the last few years,
[24:50.720 -> 24:56.720] and how you and the people around you dealt with that, that sums up what you do differently.
[24:56.720 -> 25:01.120] We have this concept of the day we fail is the day that our competitors will regret,
[25:01.920 -> 25:06.000] because you rarely come off, you come away from a race saying, why the hell
[25:06.000 -> 25:12.560] did we win? Everybody's in a bit of a mood of satisfaction when you go and you, of course,
[25:12.560 -> 25:17.160] you analyze and you look at things, but you've done a good job. The car is good. Everybody
[25:17.160 -> 25:23.440] has worked. But when you lose, you go away and say, why the heck did we lose? What went
[25:23.440 -> 25:26.800] wrong? And you analyze in much more depth.
[25:26.800 -> 25:29.520] And because our hamster wheel runs so fast,
[25:29.520 -> 25:30.860] there's one race after the other.
[25:30.860 -> 25:32.760] You need to be pretty quick with that.
[25:32.760 -> 25:36.840] So our meetings on Monday, the debriefs,
[25:36.840 -> 25:38.280] are pretty straightforward.
[25:38.280 -> 25:41.480] And what I tried to put in many years ago
[25:41.480 -> 25:44.800] was that the leaders need to be able to come out
[25:44.800 -> 25:45.360] with what they
[25:45.360 -> 25:51.640] did wrong and only then the organization will learn that it's actually true that
[25:51.640 -> 25:55.760] we are never blaming the person but the process where we need to optimize and
[25:55.760 -> 26:00.360] it's still something that I just had a situation today where I realized
[26:00.360 -> 26:03.720] that somebody didn't speak up and I encouraged him to speak up. I actually
[26:03.720 -> 26:07.960] told the person I see you owe it to the company to speak up,
[26:07.960 -> 26:10.800] because if you don't, you damage us in our performance.
[26:11.360 -> 26:14.240] And there's many examples of that.
[26:14.280 -> 26:20.000] One that was important, for example, is we never performed well in Singapore.
[26:21.520 -> 26:24.840] We had a really good season in 2014 and 2015 and always
[26:28.720 -> 26:33.720] came Singapore, we lacked performance. And this time around, it was really such an outlier that I said, we cannot accept the
[26:33.720 -> 26:34.720] status quo.
[26:34.720 -> 26:40.320] We need to get on top of this, because I believe it will also make us faster on the other circuits.
[26:40.320 -> 26:52.160] And the group that was involved around the mechanical side of the car really stuck their heads together and we went to Japan the following week and we killed everybody.
[26:52.160 -> 26:57.120] Next year we were the dominating team in Singapore and the lessons we learned
[26:58.080 -> 27:00.560] were so valuable for all the years to come.
[27:01.280 -> 27:06.000] So can I ask you a question, Toto, sy'n fy nhrifu o'r hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud.
[27:06.000 -> 27:12.000] O'r ffyrdd o rywun sy'n ddim yn deall F1, mae'n sport technigol,
[27:12.000 -> 27:18.000] ond rydych chi'n ysgrifennu pwysau pobl a phobl sy'n dod i mewn i'w gweithredaethau.
[27:18.000 -> 27:23.000] Os oes gennych chi ymddangos pa mor o'ch cyfansoddau dros y chwe mlynedd diwethaf
[27:23.000 -> 27:29.960] wedi bod i bobl yn ymwneud â'r brosesau, pa fyddai'r ymddangos yna? How much of your success then over the last seven years has been down to people versus the processes? What would you describe that proportion to be?
[27:29.960 -> 27:36.640] 100% people because people make processes and when you speak about the
[27:36.640 -> 27:40.400] team or the company you need to speak about all the people that work in the
[27:40.400 -> 27:48.240] team. Everybody that's adding their part to the team's success. When you
[27:48.240 -> 27:53.960] have a thousand people meditating, you will feel the aura of the place. And there are
[27:53.960 -> 27:59.440] some scientific studies about that. So I strongly believe that if everybody pulls in the same
[27:59.440 -> 28:08.960] direction to the best of their abilities with the important character traits and values, this will trigger positive force.
[28:08.960 -> 28:10.880] Now, this sounds like, you know,
[28:10.880 -> 28:15.280] Obi-Wan Kenobi speaking about force.
[28:15.280 -> 28:17.240] Meditating doesn't make the car faster.
[28:18.200 -> 28:20.000] That is down to data.
[28:20.000 -> 28:25.000] That is down to process, solid engineering and stability.
[28:25.920 -> 28:27.840] But all that is made by people.
[28:27.840 -> 28:30.360] And that's what I find fascinating.
[28:30.360 -> 28:34.160] When you're recruiting somebody to join this culture
[28:34.160 -> 28:36.160] that you're embedding,
[28:36.160 -> 28:37.960] one of our favorite phrases on this is that,
[28:37.960 -> 28:39.760] talent will get you into the room,
[28:39.760 -> 28:42.640] your behavior and your values will keep you there.
[28:42.640 -> 28:45.960] So how do you recruit somebody that once you're confident
[28:45.960 -> 28:49.760] that they can implement effective processes,
[28:49.760 -> 28:52.960] how do you recruit against these values?
[28:52.960 -> 28:55.000] So that changed over time
[28:55.000 -> 29:00.000] because there is the known recruitment processes,
[29:00.080 -> 29:01.800] but I'm lucky enough to work
[29:01.800 -> 29:04.560] with a chief people's officer, Paul,
[29:04.560 -> 29:07.160] who came from a large corporation, GLR,
[29:07.160 -> 29:09.160] and who was part of the journey with me
[29:09.160 -> 29:12.200] because he came to the team at the same time than I did.
[29:12.200 -> 29:14.000] And there is so much that I learned from him
[29:14.000 -> 29:16.720] because all the things that I throw at him, the ideas,
[29:16.720 -> 29:19.680] the articles, the science, he's actually
[29:19.680 -> 29:22.080] the one who makes it happen in real life.
[29:22.080 -> 29:25.000] And it developed jointly with the team around us.
[29:25.000 -> 29:28.680] We got it to a point where our process is maybe different.
[29:28.680 -> 29:31.640] And that is again down to people's judgment.
[29:31.640 -> 29:36.220] If you develop that eye and that skill,
[29:36.220 -> 29:39.920] you will recognize that somebody with the best CV
[29:39.920 -> 29:43.400] could not fit into the organization.
[29:43.400 -> 29:46.340] And I would say somebody that's walking into my room
[29:46.340 -> 29:51.340] for an interview, it takes me two minutes to find out
[29:51.660 -> 29:54.720] whether this person would fit in our structure.
[29:54.720 -> 29:55.740] So how would you do that?
[29:55.740 -> 29:58.820] So what would be your killer question
[29:58.820 -> 30:01.260] that would answer that for you?
[30:01.260 -> 30:03.540] There is no killer question, I look in the eyes.
[30:03.540 -> 30:13.320] And if somebody is authentic, humble enough, whilst being ambitious you feel that. You sense if the
[30:13.320 -> 30:21.420] person is the missing link for that position. And have you over time not gone
[30:21.420 -> 30:27.440] with your instinct? You've been sort of overruled by the fact this person's CV looks incredible and there's a voice in the back of your head going
[30:27.440 -> 30:31.640] it's not right but look at the CV and you make the mistake and you learn from
[30:31.640 -> 30:36.840] it? Yeah of course because I'm impressed by academic record also and we had the
[30:36.840 -> 30:41.440] situation that we only hired from the best universities. You needed to have an
[30:41.440 -> 30:46.680] engineering degree, aerodynamics, aeronautics from Cambridge,
[30:46.680 -> 30:52.920] Oxford, Cranfield, whatever. And I said well what about you know are we not
[30:52.920 -> 30:59.080] missing out on students that maybe didn't have the possibility to study at
[30:59.080 -> 31:03.400] those top universities? Are we not missing out on people that have a
[31:03.400 -> 31:05.440] passion for the sport, that understand racing?
[31:06.240 -> 31:10.800] And the answer was, no, no, no, we just need to have the best of every year. And
[31:10.800 -> 31:16.800] this is an engineering sport. And I said, what about somebody who hasn't got an academic
[31:16.800 -> 31:22.800] grade at all? Well, impossible. We wouldn't even consider him to, probably wouldn't even
[31:22.800 -> 31:28.240] write him a response letter. I said, okay, that's interesting. So you wouldn't, you would never employ such a person.
[31:28.240 -> 31:30.480] Or we would never. I said, well, then you would have never employed me.
[31:31.920 -> 31:34.640] No, no, that's different. That's different because you found us.
[31:35.680 -> 31:41.600] So today, why we are really pushing hard for diversity in the team is that we are looking
[31:41.600 -> 31:48.800] for diversity in opinion. And we are looking at universities that are not in the most privileged areas.
[31:48.800 -> 31:54.600] We are looking at schools that are in a similar environment.
[31:54.600 -> 31:59.000] We are working with the Marbury Trust and the Marbury schools to allow children that
[31:59.000 -> 32:06.080] would never have access to STEM education or a job in Formula 1 to inspire them.
[32:06.080 -> 32:10.840] And that is something that I take great pride in doing.
[32:10.840 -> 32:11.840] But I failed in the recruitment.
[32:11.840 -> 32:15.640] I also failed in the recruitment when I knew exactly I'm going to fail, but I needed to
[32:15.640 -> 32:20.640] place that person in a strategic position to achieve a longer term outcome.
[32:20.640 -> 32:25.680] But sometimes in order to get the wheel turning, you need to make an obvious recruitment
[32:25.680 -> 32:28.600] that looks like a solver of all the problems
[32:28.600 -> 32:30.360] whilst you know it's not,
[32:30.360 -> 32:33.480] but necessary to achieve the next step.
[32:33.480 -> 32:34.520] I see what you mean.
[32:34.520 -> 32:35.360] I see what you mean.
[32:35.360 -> 32:37.000] I think what's really interesting, Toto,
[32:37.000 -> 32:39.560] is hearing you talk about this cognitive diversity,
[32:39.560 -> 32:42.440] because if everyone has lived exactly the same life
[32:42.440 -> 32:44.160] and walked along exactly the same path
[32:44.160 -> 32:47.080] until they walk in the doors of your Formula One team.
[32:47.080 -> 32:48.880] They're all going to see the same things,
[32:48.880 -> 32:50.720] but crucially, they're all going to miss the same things.
[32:50.720 -> 32:52.680] And I remember I only did four years
[32:52.680 -> 32:54.800] working in the Formula One paddock,
[32:54.800 -> 32:57.280] but I remember leaving and my overriding emotion was
[32:57.280 -> 33:01.340] that sport and that world and those people are wonderful.
[33:01.340 -> 33:06.360] But if they took the blinkers off, being Formula One people, they would realise
[33:06.360 -> 33:11.720] that they're maybe 20 or 30% what they could be, even though they were the best teams and
[33:11.720 -> 33:14.440] the best people in that world. Do you know what I mean?
[33:14.440 -> 33:21.280] Yeah, we are the victim of our own perception and a common mistake in the hiring process
[33:21.280 -> 33:27.720] in the old days. I think it's much more complex today and much, much more scientific when you hire people.
[33:27.720 -> 33:35.200] But in the old days, people would hire applicants just like them, with the same kind of education,
[33:35.200 -> 33:36.780] a similar background.
[33:36.780 -> 33:38.280] They would dress like them.
[33:38.280 -> 33:40.000] They would have the same hobbies.
[33:40.000 -> 33:43.920] And of course, you get along with such a person much more than somebody who has a totally
[33:43.920 -> 33:44.920] different background.
[33:44.920 -> 33:50.520] But this is what you need to achieve in order, what you need to do in order to have the variety
[33:50.520 -> 33:59.920] of opinion and not believe that what you perceive as being the ultimate truth actually is.
[33:59.920 -> 34:04.380] I like the concept of actually looking from outside and say, what can that person bring
[34:04.380 -> 34:05.960] to the organization?
[34:05.960 -> 34:08.640] So what would you say has been one innovation
[34:08.640 -> 34:12.360] that you personally have brought into Mercedes then,
[34:12.360 -> 34:16.040] Toto, from your experiences of running your own businesses
[34:16.040 -> 34:17.360] outside of that world?
[34:19.000 -> 34:21.080] Well, I don't wanna talk about what I can bring in,
[34:21.080 -> 34:24.760] but one aspect that is definitely something
[34:24.760 -> 34:25.480] where I add value
[34:25.480 -> 34:31.960] is persistence. I never let go. When I feel that there is an area where we need to, a
[34:31.960 -> 34:36.460] political area or an area where we need to improve, I never let go.
[34:36.460 -> 34:38.760] So what example would be?
[34:38.760 -> 34:46.480] Sometimes you need to defend the interests of your teams against the other teams with the regulator, Formula One, commercial rights
[34:46.480 -> 34:55.520] holder, the sponsors, the public and I may fail but I'm not letting go. So where in the team do
[34:55.520 -> 35:01.280] you see you having the biggest impact? What's the most important impact you can have?
[35:01.280 -> 35:08.220] Because when I look at a Formula One team I understand how the driver can have an impact, how the race engineer or the aerodynamicist can
[35:08.220 -> 35:12.100] have a direct impact. Your role is so widespread, you're like the Prime
[35:12.100 -> 35:16.280] Minister, okay, you've got everyone underneath you, so where do you see the
[35:16.280 -> 35:18.880] best and biggest impacts of Toto on that team?
[35:18.880 -> 35:23.000] Without wanting to sound arrogant or patronising, I run people and they run
[35:23.000 -> 35:25.000] Formula One team.
[35:25.000 -> 35:29.000] I think that's your secret though, that you see that it's a people thing.
[35:29.000 -> 35:34.800] Absolutely, but I mean we are all people. How could you ignore that most important factor?
[35:34.800 -> 35:40.640] I would say that I care and I think this is being felt and I'm trying to provide a framework
[35:40.640 -> 35:47.440] for the people to function best. I try to provide the funding that is necessary,
[35:47.440 -> 35:51.760] make the people interact in the best possible way, allow the argument in order to achieve
[35:51.760 -> 35:57.520] the best outcome, and just trying to be a role model in those various areas.
[35:57.520 -> 36:03.480] But to be honest, I learn as much from the people around me that I work with as much
[36:03.480 -> 36:27.240] as they probably learn from me. to be a marketer, you should use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional
[36:27.240 -> 36:28.240] audience.
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[36:32.280 -> 36:37.680] All the big wigs, then medium wigs, also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs.
[36:37.680 -> 36:39.800] Okay, that's enough about wigs.
[36:39.800 -> 36:44.240] LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[36:44.240 -> 36:49.360] So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
[36:49.360 -> 36:50.680] voice in the world?
[36:50.680 -> 36:51.680] Yes.
[36:51.680 -> 36:52.960] Yes, it does.
[36:52.960 -> 36:57.480] Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
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[37:00.720 -> 37:03.960] Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit.
[37:03.960 -> 37:06.160] That's LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results.
[37:06.160 -> 37:08.320] Terms and conditions apply.
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[39:17.280 -> 39:20.160] I saw a clip the other day of you on the pit wall
[39:20.160 -> 39:22.320] and the race was in full flow
[39:22.320 -> 39:24.200] and you wanted to get a message.
[39:24.200 -> 39:25.440] I think it was to Valtteri and obviously his race engineer talks to him. So you said to the race was in full flow and you wanted to get a message, I think it was to Valtteri,
[39:25.440 -> 39:29.360] and obviously his race engineer talks to him. So you said to the race engineer, you said,
[39:30.160 -> 39:35.680] tell him you can do this, just that, tell him you can do this. What I thought was really
[39:35.680 -> 39:40.640] interesting about that was that you know how to get to the head of someone and impact them
[39:40.640 -> 39:45.760] mentally. But again, getting to the heart. I wonder how much that is innate
[39:45.840 -> 39:47.960] or what was going through your mind, actually,
[39:48.040 -> 39:49.920] the few seconds before you told the race engineer
[39:50.000 -> 39:51.760] that that was the message that that driver
[39:51.840 -> 39:54.160] in that situation needed to hear.
[39:54.520 -> 39:56.480] I don't want to talk about that particular message
[39:56.560 -> 39:59.440] because it's very personal one
[39:59.640 -> 40:01.240] and it's not something that I invented,
[40:01.320 -> 40:02.640] but I was just listening.
[40:02.880 -> 40:08.400] But it's so important to put yourself into the shoes of the other person and try to
[40:08.400 -> 40:15.280] understand what are the fears and the anxieties, what are motivating factors, what
[40:15.280 -> 40:17.240] is the right message at the right time.
[40:17.680 -> 40:23.280] And I often laugh about the situations where these people running teams, they go on
[40:23.280 -> 40:30.560] the grid, they lean over to the driver, they give him a shake. I mean, they haven't understood how that works. A driver sits in the
[40:30.560 -> 40:36.400] car and it's just about to get out there, risk his life, be concentrated, and you're intruding
[40:36.400 -> 40:41.600] that environment. But some may like it. I haven't seen any who likes it, but that's a different
[40:41.600 -> 40:46.280] story. So I think it's just being able to comprehend the individual
[40:46.280 -> 40:50.240] and what that person needs, what kind of support.
[40:50.240 -> 40:51.680] It can be too much.
[40:51.680 -> 40:55.360] Also, someone that is secure in itself,
[40:55.360 -> 40:57.240] that knows exactly what to achieve,
[40:57.240 -> 41:01.760] may only need support in very difficult times.
[41:01.760 -> 41:06.800] And then it's more pull thing rather than me pushing.
[41:06.800 -> 41:10.000] And I'm always ready to be pulled.
[41:10.000 -> 41:11.720] And they know I'm there.
[41:11.720 -> 41:14.620] Yeah, I think though that that comes from you
[41:14.620 -> 41:18.160] being really solid and confident in yourself.
[41:18.160 -> 41:20.000] Because I think the example that you talk about there
[41:20.000 -> 41:21.840] with someone leaning in moments before a race
[41:21.840 -> 41:24.040] with a TV camera on and giving a driver a high five,
[41:24.040 -> 41:28.780] that's not for the driver. That is for the person to be seen. Here I am. I'm just
[41:28.780 -> 41:32.500] supporting this guy. Just going to get a shot of this. I'm really thoughtful. I care about
[41:32.500 -> 41:39.020] him and I'm going to help him. You got that? Great. Bye. That's what that moment's about.
[41:39.020 -> 41:42.600] When people make decisions for themselves, not for the individual that they should be
[41:42.600 -> 41:45.280] making the decision about, therein lies the problem, doesn't it?
[41:45.280 -> 41:50.800] Yeah, absolutely. But sometimes it's like you said, it's really intelligent people that
[41:50.800 -> 41:56.640] are so driven by their egos, they are being carried away. And sometimes a lack of confidence
[41:56.640 -> 42:03.160] or a lack of feeling included. And you somehow like, you want to include yourself in the
[42:03.160 -> 42:08.200] team's performance. I guess it's an advantage of the team
[42:08.200 -> 42:09.700] that we are able to tell each other
[42:09.700 -> 42:12.000] that we have been real idiots.
[42:12.000 -> 42:14.700] And it's something that I have always done with myself
[42:14.700 -> 42:18.040] and my wife does with me all the time,
[42:18.040 -> 42:20.000] who would say, oh, you calm down,
[42:20.000 -> 42:22.640] you're becoming a little bit of an ass here.
[42:24.580 -> 42:27.680] And it's just important to have that environment around you.
[42:27.840 -> 42:30.080] So when you talk about this empathy
[42:30.080 -> 42:33.360] that you have, this ability to understand the drivers
[42:33.360 -> 42:38.080] and the world of another individual, Toto,
[42:38.080 -> 42:40.480] how do you get your drivers then,
[42:40.480 -> 42:42.760] these guys that are competing with each other,
[42:42.760 -> 42:44.880] how do you manage that relationship
[42:44.880 -> 42:45.440] of being able to
[42:45.440 -> 42:48.520] empathize and understand and engage with them,
[42:48.520 -> 42:50.840] while you're trying to do that for two guys
[42:50.840 -> 42:52.800] that are going to be in competition?
[42:52.800 -> 42:57.560] You have to recognize that the best ones are
[42:57.560 -> 43:03.520] the edgiest ones, in terms of personalities, behaviors.
[43:03.520 -> 43:07.260] And this is not only in a sporting environment,
[43:07.260 -> 43:11.500] but it's somehow compounded for sports people.
[43:11.500 -> 43:15.800] I've seen a few exceptional people in business life,
[43:15.800 -> 43:20.200] chief executive officers or engineers,
[43:20.200 -> 43:25.000] bankers that have been really mind-blowing.
[43:25.000 -> 43:28.760] None of them have been easy characters.
[43:28.760 -> 43:31.080] All of them have complexities to the personality
[43:31.080 -> 43:34.160] that you have to understand in order to deal with them.
[43:34.160 -> 43:36.720] But with sports people it's different
[43:36.720 -> 43:39.480] because you're only as good as your last race.
[43:39.480 -> 43:41.960] The pressure is enormous.
[43:41.960 -> 43:47.440] Nobody else can really help you in that moment. And in a way, it's
[43:47.440 -> 43:52.720] traumatized kids that have been put by the dreams of their parents into a go-kart at
[43:52.720 -> 43:59.600] the age of six, letting them drive out there alone. And for sure, you need to overcome
[43:59.600 -> 44:05.000] these fears. And all your life, you're alone in this car, all throughout your sports career,
[44:05.000 -> 44:07.000] and then suddenly you're being embedded in a big team
[44:07.000 -> 44:10.000] and everybody tells you, you know, you have to be a team player.
[44:10.000 -> 44:14.000] And how can these people be team players at the beginning?
[44:14.000 -> 44:16.000] They have never been told to be team players.
[44:16.000 -> 44:18.000] They had to rely on themselves.
[44:18.000 -> 44:23.000] And I think a great achievement of our group and Luis and Valtteri,
[44:23.000 -> 44:26.480] and also Nico to a certain degree back in the day,
[44:26.480 -> 44:32.200] was that they really understood that in order for them to perform well, they needed the
[44:32.200 -> 44:38.080] support of the group. And I think that is a big difference with the Mercedes F1 team.
[44:38.080 -> 44:47.720] But I really like to work with difficult people and sports people, because there's a lot to learn from them.
[44:47.720 -> 44:52.720] And there is a reason why they are the best in their area.
[44:54.520 -> 44:58.320] It's just so interesting.
[44:58.320 -> 45:01.620] So do you think that prickly, difficult edge
[45:01.620 -> 45:12.000] is necessary to be a high performer? Absolutely, absolutely. I think why can somebody push himself or herself to
[45:12.000 -> 45:17.240] these edges, to have failure and cope with it and stand up and become
[45:17.240 -> 45:22.440] stronger. Drive a car on the edge risking your life because unfortunately
[45:22.440 -> 45:27.840] we don't see this through the cameras anymore but it's really risking your life because unfortunately we don't see this through the cameras anymore, but it's really risking your life.
[45:27.840 -> 45:33.160] And go get up in the morning and train all day, push yourself to the limits, have the
[45:33.160 -> 45:40.200] discipline in your daily activities, in nutrition, in training, in sleeping, finding out how
[45:40.200 -> 45:47.760] you function best in the constant pressure against being measured with your peers.
[45:47.760 -> 45:50.000] You know, that is a real, real skill
[45:50.000 -> 45:52.240] and it's a combination of nature and nurture,
[45:53.240 -> 45:58.240] but there is only a handful of votes and that is the reason.
[45:58.440 -> 45:59.720] And what have you learned, Toto,
[45:59.720 -> 46:01.920] because we've spoken a lot about protecting people
[46:01.920 -> 46:03.040] to get the best out of them.
[46:03.040 -> 46:05.960] What have you learned about making the drivers feel protected to get the best out of them. What have you learned about making the drivers
[46:05.960 -> 46:07.680] feel protected to get the best out of them?
[46:07.680 -> 46:10.480] What works for someone competing at that level?
[46:10.480 -> 46:13.360] It's not only that I protect the drivers,
[46:13.360 -> 46:16.520] but the drivers also protect the team.
[46:16.520 -> 46:19.640] Because the moment the lights go on green,
[46:21.200 -> 46:24.880] the driver is the final line of attack.
[46:24.880 -> 46:33.000] They are burdening all the work, all the sweat and tears of a large organization.
[46:33.000 -> 46:36.000] And in that moment, they protect the team.
[46:36.000 -> 46:42.000] And I think with Lewis and Valtteri, it's that we know we can rely on each other.
[46:42.000 -> 46:48.440] We won't let each other down. We can have pretty tough arguments with each other
[46:48.440 -> 46:50.440] or discussions with each other.
[46:50.440 -> 46:54.400] Sometimes we fall out, but we never want to divorce
[46:54.400 -> 46:58.040] because we are best driver wants best car.
[46:58.040 -> 47:01.040] Best driver needs best car needs best driver.
[47:01.040 -> 47:04.220] So we are on this journey, we are almost bound together.
[47:04.220 -> 47:07.720] In a way, you know, there is this Navy SEAL training
[47:07.720 -> 47:11.120] where I think they call it health week,
[47:11.120 -> 47:16.120] where they put you together with your body into the ocean.
[47:17.100 -> 47:21.700] And the only way of surviving is using each other's
[47:21.700 -> 47:24.880] body heat, coping with the situation.
[47:24.880 -> 47:27.200] And I think that is what we do.
[47:27.200 -> 47:30.720] Not in the same sense, we're not swimming in an ocean bound together,
[47:30.720 -> 47:35.320] but we need a reliance on each other in order to compete.
[47:35.680 -> 47:39.720] A few years ago, when Nico and Lewis were fighting for the title,
[47:39.720 -> 47:43.680] it looked from the outside, looking in, like they had gone on different piles
[47:43.680 -> 47:49.600] and there was a lot of friction between them. Is it sometimes okay to allow that? And did you
[47:49.600 -> 47:54.360] feel that in that instance maybe that could help to get the best out of one or the other
[47:54.360 -> 47:55.360] or both?
[47:55.360 -> 48:00.880] I'm not sure it gets the best out of both because that is negativity and you still have
[48:00.880 -> 48:06.580] to be a team player. If the debriefing room is full of negativity
[48:06.580 -> 48:09.240] because the two drivers are hostile with each other,
[48:09.240 -> 48:12.640] then that will spill over into the energy into the room.
[48:12.640 -> 48:15.560] And that is not something that I will ever allow again.
[48:15.560 -> 48:17.240] So did that happen, do you think?
[48:17.240 -> 48:19.180] Yeah, that happened, but I couldn't change it
[48:19.180 -> 48:21.860] because the drivers were hired before I came.
[48:21.860 -> 48:24.920] Nobody actually thought what is the dynamic between the two?
[48:24.920 -> 48:27.120] What is the past between the two?
[48:27.120 -> 48:29.400] I mean, there was a lot of historical context
[48:29.400 -> 48:33.280] that nobody of us knew and will never know.
[48:33.280 -> 48:38.280] And that's why there's something that we're looking at.
[48:38.280 -> 48:41.440] How do the drivers work with each other?
[48:41.440 -> 48:48.720] What happens in the case of failure of one and the other. We accept the annoyance
[48:48.720 -> 48:55.600] and pain if it goes against one, but we're trying still to keep the positive dynamic in the team.
[48:55.600 -> 49:00.720] And if it doesn't function anymore, that's fine. If we were to fail again, that's fine,
[49:00.720 -> 49:05.120] then we're changing the driveline. But all of your years of experience and learning
[49:05.120 -> 49:09.840] and empathy and understanding and protecting that still wasn't enough to solve that situation?
[49:09.840 -> 49:16.960] I imagine you tried. It was very difficult because I came into the team as a newcomer in Formula One
[49:16.960 -> 49:22.880] and Nico and Luis have been in the sport for much longer but still I was able to create an
[49:22.880 -> 49:25.280] environment where they had to respect the team,
[49:25.840 -> 49:28.080] sometimes with an iron fist.
[49:28.320 -> 49:32.960] And they understood that they couldn't let us down, they couldn't let Mercedes down.
[49:33.520 -> 49:39.120] When the events of 2014, I felt there was some selfish behavior.
[49:39.280 -> 49:42.880] I said, the next time you come close to the other car, your teammate,
[49:43.040 -> 49:44.960] you think about the Mercedes brand.
[49:45.640 -> 49:48.480] You think about single individuals in the team.
[49:48.480 -> 49:52.960] You think about Dieter Zetsche, the CEO of Mercedes.
[49:52.960 -> 49:55.400] That's going to change the way you act.
[49:55.400 -> 49:58.880] You're not going to put your teammate into the war.
[49:58.880 -> 50:04.280] And I always made clear that if this were to happen regularly, and I would see a pattern,
[50:04.280 -> 50:09.060] I have no fear in making somebody miss races.
[50:09.060 -> 50:10.520] So maybe in some ways,
[50:10.520 -> 50:13.120] that period was a really important period for the team,
[50:13.120 -> 50:16.040] because you know that's a place you don't go back to.
[50:16.040 -> 50:16.860] Absolutely.
[50:16.860 -> 50:20.300] I think the thing the drivers want the most
[50:20.300 -> 50:22.260] is to compete in a car.
[50:22.260 -> 50:25.080] And you always need to be very clear
[50:25.080 -> 50:26.840] that you compete in the car
[50:26.840 -> 50:31.000] if you understand the team's game.
[50:31.000 -> 50:32.120] It's much more difficult
[50:32.120 -> 50:33.920] because there's only two drivers in the team.
[50:33.920 -> 50:36.120] It's not easy to find a replacement
[50:37.000 -> 50:39.320] and a replacement on that level.
[50:39.320 -> 50:41.960] But I'm prepared to sacrifice a race or two
[50:41.960 -> 50:44.080] just to make it clear for all future generations
[50:44.080 -> 50:47.040] who are going to drive for Mercedes that that's not all.
[50:47.040 -> 50:49.640] And then a football team, I think you're in football,
[50:49.640 -> 50:51.600] it's a little bit easier.
[50:51.600 -> 50:53.280] It's easier and more difficult.
[50:53.280 -> 50:57.280] More difficult because you're having a squad
[50:57.280 -> 51:00.040] of 20 or 30 people that are all difficult
[51:00.040 -> 51:02.680] because they are the best or among the best,
[51:02.680 -> 51:06.400] but then it's easier because the replacement is easier
[51:06.400 -> 51:07.680] because it's 11.
[51:07.680 -> 51:11.600] Are you familiar with the idea of a stop doing list, Toto?
[51:11.600 -> 51:14.320] So the management writer, Jim Collins,
[51:14.320 -> 51:17.320] talks about it's almost as important to be clear
[51:17.320 -> 51:20.720] about what you won't do as much as what you will do.
[51:20.720 -> 51:24.160] So that experience where you described the negativity
[51:24.160 -> 51:27.520] and the conflict, is there anything that you added
[51:27.520 -> 51:30.120] to a stop doing list that you made clear
[51:30.120 -> 51:32.600] was unacceptable in your world?
[51:32.600 -> 51:37.200] I think there is a visible and invisible way of doing that.
[51:37.200 -> 51:40.980] There is a, what we had in the past, rules of engagement
[51:40.980 -> 51:42.800] between the drivers, we felt that rules
[51:42.800 -> 51:50.480] is not the right word, so we call it racing intent now. How we expect the drivers to handle certain situations.
[51:50.480 -> 51:55.240] But with the experience that we have today and the two drivers knowing the team, it's
[51:55.240 -> 52:00.400] almost become something that is ingrained in the driver's mentality and in the team's
[52:00.400 -> 52:07.720] mentality. But everybody knows that for me personally, having the responsibility of running this team,
[52:07.720 -> 52:10.960] the responsibility towards the people and the brand,
[52:10.960 -> 52:15.960] this great brand, there is a line until where I can go.
[52:16.120 -> 52:19.120] And if you drag me over the line, I'm losing it.
[52:19.120 -> 52:20.480] I'm not losing it, actually.
[52:20.480 -> 52:22.280] That's the wrong description.
[52:22.280 -> 52:27.280] The outcome may something that could be less enjoyable.
[52:27.920 -> 52:29.160] You know what, Toto, when we sit here
[52:29.160 -> 52:32.360] and have a conversation as we have for the last hour,
[52:32.360 -> 52:34.960] we spoke at the beginning about relentlessness and passion,
[52:34.960 -> 52:37.440] and I get the impression that you are as passionate
[52:37.440 -> 52:41.040] about this job and as relentless as the day you started.
[52:41.040 -> 52:42.760] Where does that energy come from?
[52:42.760 -> 52:44.280] It's not completely true,
[52:44.280 -> 52:46.120] because there is a reason why
[52:46.200 -> 52:51.040] teams, not many teams win world championships, there is less who
[52:51.040 -> 52:56.120] can do more than one. And I don't believe there is any that
[52:56.120 -> 52:59.000] won seven in a row on a world championship level. And the
[52:59.000 -> 53:02.840] reason is that great people meet on this journey, but great
[53:02.840 -> 53:08.560] people leave, lose motivation or energy, get complacent.
[53:08.560 -> 53:11.960] And if winning becomes a habit
[53:11.960 -> 53:13.840] and is not something special anymore,
[53:13.840 -> 53:16.760] this may create a negative spiral
[53:16.760 -> 53:18.640] that eventually is gonna make you lose.
[53:18.640 -> 53:21.660] But we are not immune to that.
[53:21.660 -> 53:28.600] And we know that that risk is there. So we need to actively tackle that. And we know that that risk is there. So, we need to actively tackle that.
[53:28.600 -> 53:33.660] We are bringing talent up. We are making people responsible in their departments and areas
[53:33.660 -> 53:38.080] that have been more junior in the past. So, it becomes their own success. We're trying
[53:38.080 -> 53:46.860] to define objectives that excite, that people buy in. And we accept that nobody is able to perform 24-7 all the
[53:46.860 -> 53:53.200] time and be the best himself or herself. But we have such a strong group of
[53:53.200 -> 53:59.000] people that we carry the ones that need time on the sidelines. And it happened to
[53:59.000 -> 54:06.080] me last year I had a period that I had to redefine for myself what the future would hold.
[54:06.080 -> 54:10.280] And I was being carried.
[54:10.280 -> 54:13.800] And when I came back to full power and I needed that,
[54:13.800 -> 54:15.080] I'm carrying others now.
[54:15.080 -> 54:17.200] That's an interesting one for people to understand
[54:17.200 -> 54:21.480] because that was the year you won seven back-to-back titles.
[54:21.480 -> 54:23.680] That was the year you did better
[54:23.680 -> 54:25.240] than anyone's ever done before.
[54:25.240 -> 54:27.520] Why would that be the period that you would find
[54:27.520 -> 54:31.280] your energy levels had dropped or you needed to be carried?
[54:31.280 -> 54:33.920] That was my own expectations of what you said.
[54:33.920 -> 54:38.120] I needed to be for myself.
[54:38.120 -> 54:40.680] When I embarked on this job, I wanted to be the best.
[54:41.600 -> 54:44.400] And I only wanted it for me.
[54:48.000 -> 54:53.000] I don't wanna prove it to anybody else. It was the kind of target I set myself.
[54:53.000 -> 55:00.000] And when I achieved it, there was a certain degree of...
[55:00.000 -> 55:06.800] I needed to reinvent myself and reinvent the objectives.
[55:06.800 -> 55:08.960] And that takes time.
[55:08.960 -> 55:17.720] And my role is transitioning from this team, traditional team principles role to a wider
[55:17.720 -> 55:24.320] responsibility and I take great pleasure of people carrying the baton for me in the future.
[55:24.320 -> 55:27.520] And I decided to not only stay involved in the team
[55:27.520 -> 55:28.800] in a management role,
[55:28.800 -> 55:31.400] but actually together with Daimler and Jim Ratcliffe
[55:31.400 -> 55:33.520] to own the team for a long time
[55:33.520 -> 55:35.320] and commit myself to the sport
[55:35.320 -> 55:37.000] whilst keeping the options open
[55:37.000 -> 55:40.440] and managing the team in a broader context.
[55:40.440 -> 55:43.040] So that process of reinvention, Toto,
[55:43.040 -> 55:44.680] I read a really interesting quote from you
[55:44.680 -> 55:45.280] where you spoke about
[55:45.960 -> 55:51.920] deleting social media and from your phone so you could spend more time looking at sunsets and
[55:52.280 -> 55:54.280] Then you spoke about the idea that
[55:54.640 -> 55:58.760] Even though you did that you still spent most of your time dominated thinking about Formula One
[55:59.320 -> 56:04.940] So, how do you go about switching off and recharging and giving yourself space to?
[56:07.160 -> 56:10.400] reinvent I How do you go about switching off and recharging and giving yourself space to reinvent? I somehow, being hooked to a screen is not good for me.
[56:10.400 -> 56:13.400] It kind of sucks energy for me.
[56:13.400 -> 56:16.240] And I really enjoy when I'm traveling,
[56:16.240 -> 56:19.000] just staring on the ceiling in the airplane.
[56:19.000 -> 56:20.800] And I can do this for 10 hours
[56:20.800 -> 56:24.400] because any kind of outside distraction doesn't work for me.
[56:24.400 -> 56:25.280] I enjoy reading
[56:25.280 -> 56:31.840] books, particularly finance books, that give me a sometimes different perception.
[56:31.840 -> 56:38.000] I enjoy spending time with people that are close to me. Today I'm in
[56:38.000 -> 56:42.680] Bahrain here and I had the opportunity to sit to have some time with one
[56:42.680 -> 56:45.640] exceptionally intelligent person, the
[56:45.640 -> 56:51.120] Minister of Finance of Bahrain. And there's so much that I learned that it left me
[56:51.120 -> 56:56.760] flabbergasted. And that is something where we got to develop and
[56:56.760 -> 57:02.080] learn new skills and a new understanding and that is much more interesting than
[57:02.080 -> 57:08.840] looking at somebody's Instagram, posing, trying to make me look at them.
[57:08.840 -> 57:12.720] I'm not interested in looking at somebody else's life.
[57:12.720 -> 57:13.820] I love that.
[57:13.820 -> 57:15.220] Listen, Toto, before we wrap up,
[57:15.220 -> 57:18.360] we have a quick fire round, a few questions.
[57:18.360 -> 57:20.040] And the first one is,
[57:20.040 -> 57:23.080] what are the three non-negotiables
[57:23.080 -> 57:26.300] that people around you must buy into?
[57:26.300 -> 57:29.120] Number one, never ever lie,
[57:30.120 -> 57:31.840] because I will lose all respect.
[57:32.700 -> 57:35.600] Number two, don't bullshit me,
[57:36.540 -> 57:37.880] because I will find out.
[57:39.300 -> 57:42.760] Number three, be authentic,
[57:43.720 -> 57:45.000] but with all your weaknesses and strengths,
[57:45.780 -> 57:47.360] because even with your weaknesses,
[57:47.360 -> 57:49.960] you can contribute to my life
[57:49.960 -> 57:52.880] and you can contribute to the team's success.
[57:52.880 -> 57:55.600] What advice would you give to a teenage Toto
[57:55.600 -> 57:57.840] just starting out on your journey?
[57:57.840 -> 57:59.900] That's a difficult one, because I made all the mistakes
[57:59.900 -> 58:01.080] that you could probably make,
[58:01.080 -> 58:05.160] and everything you want was important.
[58:05.160 -> 58:07.760] And if you open up the first chapter
[58:07.760 -> 58:09.240] of your professional life,
[58:10.120 -> 58:14.840] you shouldn't look at somebody who is in his 30th chapter
[58:14.840 -> 58:17.400] because you need the in-between to learn.
[58:17.400 -> 58:20.360] And if there was one advice that I would give
[58:20.360 -> 58:25.000] is find out where your skill is and what you enjoy doing.
[58:25.580 -> 58:28.560] And even if it's not clear of what that could be
[58:28.560 -> 58:31.860] in terms of a job, eventually it will find you.
[58:32.700 -> 58:33.540] Lovely.
[58:33.540 -> 58:35.720] How important is legacy to you?
[58:35.720 -> 58:37.780] Zero, zero importance.
[58:37.780 -> 58:39.620] I live in the now.
[58:40.840 -> 58:45.000] And I try to be better tomorrow than today.
[58:45.400 -> 58:49.440] Nobody's interested in anybody else's legacy.
[58:49.440 -> 58:52.760] There's so many great people out there that are forgotten
[58:52.760 -> 58:54.800] once they jump out of the hamster wheel
[58:54.800 -> 58:57.000] and you need to just acknowledge that.
[58:57.000 -> 58:59.360] That's why today is important.
[58:59.360 -> 59:03.500] And what somebody else thinks about me has no relevance.
[59:03.500 -> 59:07.440] I hope that my children and my wife and my friends
[59:07.440 -> 59:11.860] will remember that I have added to their life,
[59:11.860 -> 59:14.960] but not what's on the Wikipedia page.
[59:14.960 -> 59:17.920] And finally, Toto, what's your one golden rule
[59:17.920 -> 59:20.120] to live in a high-performance life?
[59:21.060 -> 59:23.920] If there would be one, it would be much easier.
[59:23.920 -> 59:26.520] So my golden rule would be be there is no golden rule.
[59:26.520 -> 59:28.260] There are many rules.
[59:28.260 -> 59:33.800] There was a scientific discussion on TV about macroeconomics and there was all these clever
[59:33.800 -> 59:40.920] people that were debating about the influences that made a country's economy, GDP grow.
[59:40.920 -> 59:44.960] And there was this one simple guy that they were asked the same question, what's the golden
[59:44.960 -> 59:45.960] rule?
[59:45.960 -> 59:51.840] And the guy said, the golden rule is that the man with the gold makes the rules.
[59:51.840 -> 59:58.480] So this is not my rule, but I kind of...
[59:58.480 -> 01:00:01.400] The golden rule is that there is no golden rule.
[01:00:01.400 -> 01:00:03.360] That is a very good point and a great point to end on.
[01:00:03.360 -> 01:00:04.860] There are indeed no shortcuts.
[01:00:04.860 -> 01:00:10.160] You haven't taken any and it shows. To sit there and share the things you've learned,
[01:00:10.160 -> 01:00:14.480] the successes, the failures, the lessons over the last hour is something that I know the
[01:00:14.480 -> 01:00:18.200] listeners to this podcast will get so much from. So I can't thank you enough for making
[01:00:18.200 -> 01:00:19.200] the time for us.
[01:00:19.200 -> 01:00:20.200] Really enjoyed it.
[01:00:20.200 -> 01:00:21.200] Damien.
[01:00:21.200 -> 01:00:22.200] Jake.
[01:00:22.200 -> 01:00:29.800] What an interesting character he was. You know, at the end there when he ran through
[01:00:29.800 -> 01:00:34.440] his non-negotiables, I just got... like, he looked down the camera, didn't he? And he
[01:00:34.440 -> 01:00:36.040] was like, number one.
[01:00:36.040 -> 01:00:37.040] Yeah.
[01:00:37.040 -> 01:00:42.320] Do not lie. And I was just, I was, I wasn't scared, but I felt his presence in that moment.
[01:00:42.320 -> 01:00:45.280] You know, you can see there, one of the traits of his leadership
[01:00:45.280 -> 01:00:48.940] is absolutely not to leave people in any doubt
[01:00:48.940 -> 01:00:51.100] as to how he feels about them or the situation,
[01:00:51.100 -> 01:00:51.940] don't you think?
[01:00:51.940 -> 01:00:53.960] There was no ambiguity at all, I think that.
[01:00:53.960 -> 01:00:56.180] But then the word that kept coming back to me
[01:00:56.180 -> 01:00:58.200] when he was doing it was just authenticity.
[01:00:58.200 -> 01:01:00.760] Everything was about be straight, be honest,
[01:01:00.760 -> 01:01:04.300] don't lie, admit your errors, and just be yourself.
[01:01:04.300 -> 01:01:05.600] I think there's something
[01:01:10.920 -> 01:01:11.520] Incredibly powerful that like like you've said on previous podcast, you know in a world where we're all
[01:01:17.200 -> 01:01:17.760] Presenting sanitized views just being yourself and being comfortable with yourself is is a superpower in its own, right?
[01:01:24.040 -> 01:01:25.800] And I think that authenticity actually comes from confidence. You know, he now has the confidence to be totally himself, doesn't he?
[01:01:25.800 -> 01:01:28.400] And then that allows you to say,
[01:01:28.400 -> 01:01:29.600] I don't know the answer to that,
[01:01:29.600 -> 01:01:32.000] or to say I messed up or I failed,
[01:01:32.000 -> 01:01:33.200] or I don't know the way forward,
[01:01:33.200 -> 01:01:34.280] so come and help me out.
[01:01:34.280 -> 01:01:36.060] And then in turn, that brings the team with you.
[01:01:36.060 -> 01:01:37.640] I think too often leaders feel
[01:01:37.640 -> 01:01:39.760] they have to know the answer to everything.
[01:01:39.760 -> 01:01:41.960] He used a phrase when we asked him about his childhood,
[01:01:41.960 -> 01:01:46.000] and then we spoke about how the culture creates of safety. And psychological safety is the admittance that sometimes I don't know, Fe wnaethon ni ddweud hynny wrth i'r cyhoeddiadau ei gynllunio, ac yna sgoffwn am sut mae'r diwygiad yn creu amdanoedd.
[01:01:46.000 -> 01:01:49.000] Ac mae amdanoedd ymhysgol yn y cyfrifoldeb
[01:01:49.000 -> 01:01:51.000] y gallwn ni ddim ei gwybod, ac yn siŵr,
[01:01:51.000 -> 01:01:53.000] yn gobeithio am y cyfnodau o edrych yn ddiddorol
[01:01:53.000 -> 01:01:56.000] neu o'n cael ei ystyried fel ddifrifol am ei wneud.
[01:01:56.000 -> 01:01:58.000] Ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'n dod o leol
[01:01:58.000 -> 01:02:00.000] o gyfraith arbenigol yn ei hun.
[01:02:00.000 -> 01:02:02.000] Efallai na fydd e ddim yn gwybod y cyfrifoldeb,
[01:02:02.000 -> 01:02:04.000] ond nid yw'n golygu ei fod yn ddifrifol.
[01:02:04.000 -> 01:02:09.760] Ymhysgol ymhysgol yw He might not know the answers, but it doesn't mean that he's weak You know that that psychological safety is an incredibly powerful factor of all high-performing cultures. I
[01:02:10.400 -> 01:02:13.200] Totally get what you're saying Damon, you know
[01:02:13.200 -> 01:02:17.800] I was reminded a little bit of the Sean Wayne episode because I look back on Sean Wayne and I think he's a guy who
[01:02:17.920 -> 01:02:22.320] Suffered a trauma a different trauma to Toto but a trauma at a young age and his whole life
[01:02:22.840 -> 01:02:24.840] Sean's whole life has been built around
[01:02:25.200 -> 01:02:31.440] to Toto but a trauma at a young age and his whole life, Sean's whole life has been built around trying to protect the young men who play for him so they don't feel what he felt and it feels to me
[01:02:31.440 -> 01:02:35.600] like Toto is exactly the same he had a trauma at a young age and he he's doing everything in his
[01:02:35.600 -> 01:02:40.240] power of course to win Formula One races and live a great life and be a successful businessman
[01:02:40.240 -> 01:02:45.680] but to protect people around him so they don't get the sensation that he would have felt at a young Ond i gynllunio pobl o'i gilydd, fel i ddod o'r fath y byddai wedi teimlo ar y byd ifanc.
[01:02:45.680 -> 01:02:48.200] Ie, rwy'n credu ei fod yn eithaf pwysig.
[01:02:48.200 -> 01:02:52.240] Yn unig, rwy'n meddwl bod rhywun sydd ddim yn eithaf ddifrifol yn ei chwaraeon,
[01:02:52.240 -> 01:02:54.400] ymdrechon nhw i'r cyfrin y gafodd ar
[01:02:54.400 -> 01:02:57.920] how mwy o hyn yw am y mechanig a'r mechanigau
[01:02:57.920 -> 01:03:01.320] o'i chwaraeon, yn ymhlith y bobl.
[01:03:01.320 -> 01:03:04.360] Iddo ddweud iddo fod yn 100% yman y bobl.
[01:03:04.360 -> 01:03:07.000] Roedd y cyfrin yn eithaf pwysig a'n bobl, iddo ddweud iddo fod 100% yn ymwneud ag y bobl. Roedd y cyfrifol a'r cyfrifol yn llwyr o ddweud
[01:03:07.000 -> 01:03:11.000] bod yn ymwneud â, fel y dweudwch, gwarchu, gwneud pobl teimlo'n ddewis
[01:03:11.000 -> 01:03:13.000] a gwneud pobl teimlo'n ddifrifol,
[01:03:13.000 -> 01:03:16.000] ac unwaith eto gallant ddarparu'r holl ffyrdd.
[01:03:16.000 -> 01:03:20.000] Rwy'n credu bod rhywbeth yn wir, wir, yn gweithio'n gallan ar y gwybodaeth honno.
[01:03:20.000 -> 01:03:23.000] Ac mewn gwirionedd, mewn byd sy'n ymwneud â'r amser o'r lap
[01:03:23.000 -> 01:03:26.440] a'r stopwatch a the new front wing and the updates
[01:03:26.440 -> 01:03:29.040] And it's so driven by an engineering
[01:03:29.720 -> 01:03:36.660] Speed he's a constant reminder that putting people first is the secret to success no matter what the business you can't go wrong
[01:03:36.660 -> 01:03:40.420] If you look after the people there's a bit of a silly analogy that I draw here Jake that
[01:03:40.880 -> 01:03:47.000] Last year we were looking at sending my son to high school and my wife and I went round all the schools and the ones Yn ystod y flwyddyn, roeddem yn edrych ar ddangos mynnu fy mhobl i'r ysgol ymlaen ac roedd fy nif a'i ffyrdd yn ymweld â'r holl ysgolau.
[01:03:47.000 -> 01:03:52.000] Yr unau sy'n ei gadael yn ni'n ddim oedd y rhai sy'n ymddangos a'n ymdrech am gynhyrchu cyfrifiadau.
[01:03:52.000 -> 01:03:55.000] Ac dyna beth y sgwrsodd ynghylch y gwaith o gyfrifiadau,
[01:03:55.000 -> 01:04:05.360] er mwyn ysgol y ddangoswn ni i'w ddangos oedd y rhai sy'n sgwrsodd am blant ddau. Ac yn rhoi'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r ddau'r das a'r bobl yn llwyr. Ac roedd y cyfeiriad yw, pan fydd y plant yn ddwyiedig,
[01:04:05.360 -> 01:04:06.400] byddent yn gwneud yr holl ddau
[01:04:06.400 -> 01:04:07.160] sydd yn gallu eu gwneud
[01:04:07.160 -> 01:04:08.680] pan ddangos ymhlith ymchwil.
[01:04:08.680 -> 01:04:10.240] Ac roedd yn ymgyrchu gyda'n gwerthfawr
[01:04:10.240 -> 01:04:12.720] o ran rhoi pobl yn cyn i ddangos ymchwil.
[01:04:12.720 -> 01:04:14.880] Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth
[01:04:14.880 -> 01:04:16.080] sy'n ymddangos yn yr hyn
[01:04:16.080 -> 01:04:16.920] y dweudodd Toto.
[01:04:16.920 -> 01:04:18.160] Nid yw,
[01:04:18.160 -> 01:04:19.080] dyrwyfion ddwyiedig,
[01:04:19.080 -> 01:04:20.040] dyrwyfion mewniwyr,
[01:04:20.040 -> 01:04:21.920] dyrwyfion dynol,
[01:04:21.920 -> 01:04:22.880] fel y ddweudodd,
[01:04:22.880 -> 01:04:24.040] bydd yn gynhyrchu
[01:04:24.040 -> 01:04:25.760] cyfnodau ymgyrchu. Rwy'n credu bod rhywbeth yno, fel y dywedodd, bydd yn gynhyrchu cyflogau cyflym.
[01:04:25.760 -> 01:04:28.480] Rwy'n credu y mae rhywbeth yno y gallwn ni i gyd ddysgu o.
[01:04:28.480 -> 01:04:30.200] Mae'n un o gyfrifoldeb y podcast hwn,
[01:04:30.200 -> 01:04:34.760] yn cael gyda'r enw mwyaf, yna'r drifyrwyr, yn F1
[01:04:34.760 -> 01:04:38.200] ac yn ddim yn siŵr yn siŵr am F1.
[01:04:38.200 -> 01:04:39.240] Yn siŵr.
[01:04:39.240 -> 01:04:40.440] Mae'n ymwneud â bywyd.
[01:04:40.440 -> 01:04:42.160] Felly mae yna ddau ffyrdd gwych y mae Howard Schultz,
[01:04:42.160 -> 01:04:43.880] y ffwrddwr o Starbucks, yn ei ddweud,
[01:04:43.880 -> 01:04:48.080] nid ydym yn busnes cofi'n rhoi pobl, ni'n busnes pobl'n rhoi cofi.
[01:04:48.080 -> 01:04:51.680] Ac mae hynny'n dod o'r blaen mewn nifer o'n cyfresoedd.
[01:04:51.680 -> 01:04:54.160] Mae'n rheolwr o'r tîm, nid yn siarad am ymgyrchu,
[01:04:54.160 -> 01:04:56.960] mae'n rheolwr o'r tîm yn siarad am bobl sy'n digwydd i ymgyrchu.
[01:04:56.960 -> 01:04:59.920] Ac rwy'n credu yw rhywbeth yn llunio i hynny.
[01:04:59.920 -> 01:05:01.560] Fel dweud, i rywun fel fi,
[01:05:01.560 -> 01:05:04.320] sydd ddim yn ymdrech i'r byd hwnnw.
[01:05:01.680 -> 01:05:04.440] as I say, for somebody like myself that isn't that well-versed in his world.
[01:05:09.000 -> 01:05:12.280] Well, Damien, the reaction over the past seven days
[01:05:12.280 -> 01:05:14.720] has been amazing to the Stephen Hendry episode.
[01:05:14.720 -> 01:05:15.540] Do you know what?
[01:05:15.540 -> 01:05:17.760] I think that I remember feeling this
[01:05:17.760 -> 01:05:20.240] when we interviewed Johnny Wilkinson months ago.
[01:05:20.240 -> 01:05:22.680] I thought, I really hope people take that in the spirit
[01:05:22.680 -> 01:05:24.920] it's intended and don't criticise.
[01:05:24.920 -> 01:05:28.640] And I kind of, I didn't agree with some of the stuff that Stephen Hendry said,
[01:05:28.640 -> 01:05:32.240] but I also hoped that people didn't pillory him for saying it,
[01:05:32.240 -> 01:05:36.400] because I think we have to have a podcast and we have to have a society where
[01:05:36.400 -> 01:05:38.640] we are free to be honest and really tell the truth.
[01:05:38.640 -> 01:05:40.240] Otherwise, what do we end up with?
[01:05:40.240 -> 01:05:45.680] It's just a load of people telling others what they want them to hear and what isn't real.
[01:05:45.680 -> 01:05:48.400] And I think Stephen's honesty shone through, didn't it?
[01:05:48.400 -> 01:05:50.920] Yeah, I think there's a real appetite for people telling you
[01:05:50.920 -> 01:05:53.360] both the good and the bad sides of their pursuit
[01:05:53.360 -> 01:05:54.440] of high performance.
[01:05:54.440 -> 01:05:58.120] I think we can't just listen to the successes and the glory
[01:05:58.120 -> 01:06:01.880] and all the benefits of it without hearing the sacrifices,
[01:06:01.880 -> 01:06:04.920] the consequences, the struggles that they've gone through.
[01:06:04.920 -> 01:06:09.800] And I think it's a real testimony to Stephen that he was prepared to explain
[01:06:09.800 -> 01:06:11.800] that in such candid detail.
[01:06:11.800 -> 01:06:25.320] And I've learned loads having these conversations and then I make sure I always kind of listen back to them a couple of months later and I learn more things, which is a nice tip for you listeners who are tuning into this. One thing that I still don't sort of feel
[01:06:25.320 -> 01:06:26.640] I have the answer to, right, Damon,
[01:06:26.640 -> 01:06:29.980] is whether balance is possible
[01:06:29.980 -> 01:06:33.280] or whether to be Johnny Wilkinson,
[01:06:33.280 -> 01:06:37.280] to be Stephen Hendry, to be Holly Tucker,
[01:06:37.280 -> 01:06:40.840] to be Stephen Bartlett, to be Matthew McConaughey,
[01:06:40.840 -> 01:06:43.100] you have to go to the absolute limit,
[01:06:43.100 -> 01:06:46.000] which means that other things suffer.
[01:06:46.000 -> 01:06:47.880] It's a brilliant question to reflect on.
[01:06:47.880 -> 01:06:50.120] I think that there's an old line in the Jake
[01:06:50.120 -> 01:06:52.200] that says that you can have anything you want,
[01:06:52.200 -> 01:06:53.820] but you can't have everything you want.
[01:06:53.820 -> 01:06:56.220] And I think we all have to prioritize
[01:06:56.220 -> 01:06:58.120] and we're all doing that anyway.
[01:06:58.120 -> 01:07:00.720] You know, sometimes we'll prioritize time with our family
[01:07:00.720 -> 01:07:03.960] at the expense of pursuing that next career job,
[01:07:03.960 -> 01:07:09.040] or, you know, sometimes we'll prioritize working rather than reading the bedtime stories to the kids. gyda'n teulu ar y cyrraedd o ddod o'r gwaith carrer nesaf neu, wnewch chi, weithio'n amlwg yn hytrach na'r stori'n gofyn
[01:07:09.040 -> 01:07:11.760] i'r plant. Felly rydyn ni'n gwneud cymdeithasau'n amlwg
[01:07:11.760 -> 01:07:15.520] yn y bob tro, ond rwy'n credu y bydd ein cyfrifoedd wedi'u gwneud
[01:07:15.520 -> 01:07:18.640] yw, mae'n eithaf ar lefel gynhyrchol i fynd i'r lefel o
[01:07:18.640 -> 01:07:22.880] gynrychioli. Mae wedi cael eu hachub, oherwydd eu bywydau personol,
[01:07:22.880 -> 01:07:29.040] oherwydd eu cwmni cymdeithasol, yw'r gallu i fod yn ychydig mwy o ffwrdd o'r gwirionedd
[01:07:29.040 -> 01:07:31.280] na'r bobl eraill.
[01:07:31.280 -> 01:07:34.000] Ac rwy'n credu, unwaith y gwnaethoch chi gwneud penderfyniad glir ar hynny,
[01:07:34.000 -> 01:07:35.480] mae cymorth i hynny.
[01:07:35.480 -> 01:07:39.960] Rwy'n credu, i lawer ohonoch ni, ond ni ddim yn cyfathrebu'n sylweddol,
[01:07:39.960 -> 01:07:41.880] rydyn ni'n gadael bywydau'n cyfathrebu ar gyfer ni,
[01:07:41.880 -> 01:07:45.380] ac dyna lle gall ymddygiad a'r ddiddorol ddod yn ddiweddar. we let life prioritize for us. And that's where resentment and dissatisfaction
[01:07:45.380 -> 01:07:47.120] can often follow.
[01:07:47.120 -> 01:07:50.280] I think it's also a good reminder to have people around you
[01:07:50.280 -> 01:07:54.040] who are absolutely able to tell you really what is going on,
[01:07:54.040 -> 01:07:55.520] not what you think is going on.
[01:07:55.520 -> 01:07:57.960] Because one of the books that I talk about a lot
[01:07:57.960 -> 01:07:58.960] is the 5AM Club.
[01:07:58.960 -> 01:08:01.520] And they talk in that book about getting down
[01:08:01.520 -> 01:08:03.840] to the absolute granular detail with life,
[01:08:03.840 -> 01:08:05.200] you know, real granular
[01:08:05.200 -> 01:08:10.280] focus on the minutest details of every part of your life. And I think that one of the
[01:08:10.280 -> 01:08:14.560] key things is when I find myself getting too granular with work or with the businesses
[01:08:14.560 -> 01:08:19.600] I'm involved in or with this podcast and things, Harriet, my wife is there to go, hey, come
[01:08:19.600 -> 01:08:26.880] on, you can't be that focused on that. And then so not focused on not focused on what's going on here at home.
[01:08:26.880 -> 01:08:28.640] And do you remember Kevin Sinfield saying,
[01:08:28.640 -> 01:08:31.920] to be a winner first, you have to be a winner at home.
[01:08:31.920 -> 01:08:33.760] And I've reminded myself of that a lot.
[01:08:33.760 -> 01:08:35.920] And I think if you don't have that person
[01:08:35.920 -> 01:08:37.920] to sort of offer those checks and balances,
[01:08:37.920 -> 01:08:40.760] that's where it can be difficult.
[01:08:40.760 -> 01:08:43.880] Yeah, I use a phrase when I work with coaches,
[01:08:43.880 -> 01:08:47.000] I talk about you surround yourself with either time tellers or truth tellers. Ie, rydw i'n defnyddio ffras oedd wrth gweithio gyda'r coaches, rydw i'n siarad am eich bod chi'n ymwneud â'r cyfnodau o'r amser neu'r cyfnodau o'r dyddiadur.
[01:08:47.000 -> 01:08:53.000] A'r ffras hwn oedd, rwy'n cofio, yn unig unwaith, yn gweithio gyda'r coach sy'n anodd mewn gêm unigol,
[01:08:53.000 -> 01:09:00.000] ac roedd yn dod i'w helpu, ac roedd yn edrych ar rai sylwadau neu i'w ddod i mewn i'r adnodd.
[01:09:00.000 -> 01:09:05.000] Ac roedd y ddau ffyrdd sy'n ei helpuu yn dweud i mi, mae 20 munud yn rhaid.
[01:09:05.000 -> 01:09:07.000] Ac rwy'n cofio'n meddwl, gallaf wneud hynny i chi
[01:09:07.000 -> 01:09:09.000] ac rwyf ddim yn dda iawn o'ch sport,
[01:09:09.000 -> 01:09:11.000] ond yr hyn sy'n dweud wrthym oedd
[01:09:11.000 -> 01:09:13.000] nad oedd y ddau ffyrdd yn teimlo'n hyderus enough
[01:09:13.000 -> 01:09:16.000] i'w hymdro gyda'r ddiddorol ar gyfer gweithle.
[01:09:16.000 -> 01:09:18.000] A oedd yn ddifrif ar rhan o'r rhan o'r cofwyr
[01:09:18.000 -> 01:09:20.000] nad oedd e wedi adeiladu cymdeithasau
[01:09:20.000 -> 01:09:23.000] lle gall pobl fod fel yr hyn sydd gyda chi
[01:09:23.000 -> 01:09:28.400] a dweud i chi gyda gwirionedd. Rwy'n credu y byddwch chi'n gwneud y pwysle neu y byddwch chi'n cael teimlo'n ffodus. relationships where people could be like what Harriet is for you and tell you with complete honesty. I think you're making a mistake there or you're getting
[01:09:28.400 -> 01:09:32.680] stuck in a way of thinking. So I think that it's important that we all recruit
[01:09:32.680 -> 01:09:36.800] somebody around us that feels safe enough to tell us the truth when we need
[01:09:36.800 -> 01:09:39.240] to hear it and that's for good or bad reasons.
[01:09:39.240 -> 01:09:43.420] It's great. Truth tellers not time tellers. I mean I remember when we said
[01:09:43.420 -> 01:09:46.320] what are your three non-negotiables and selfishness was the first one
[01:09:46.320 -> 01:09:49.920] I was like wow, but it is also a reminder that
[01:09:50.560 -> 01:09:53.440] You can still learn from people even if you don't agree with people
[01:09:53.440 -> 01:09:59.160] I think it's really good particularly in this society where we follow people on Twitter and Instagram who agree with us
[01:09:59.160 -> 01:10:10.880] We find friends who agree with us our family members may well be tellers, not truth tellers. It's good sometimes to chase down those polar opposite opinions and really ask yourself
[01:10:10.880 -> 01:10:13.680] whether what you believe and what you think is the right thing or not.
[01:10:13.680 -> 01:10:18.360] Yeah, so we're not surrounded by an echo chamber of just our own opinions coming back at us.
[01:10:18.360 -> 01:10:22.240] Sometimes hearing something that conflicts with our view of the world gives us pause
[01:10:22.240 -> 01:10:25.160] for thought, makes us challenge our own perception.
[01:10:25.160 -> 01:10:27.440] And we might come away and still disagree
[01:10:27.440 -> 01:10:28.360] with that other person,
[01:10:28.360 -> 01:10:31.680] but we're further on in our thinking for having done that.
[01:10:31.680 -> 01:10:33.920] And I think that's what Stephen has done for a lot of
[01:10:33.920 -> 01:10:34.760] people.
[01:10:34.760 -> 01:10:37.360] The feedback I've had is that you don't necessarily have to
[01:10:37.360 -> 01:10:41.960] agree with him to admire him and to reflect on where you are
[01:10:41.960 -> 01:10:43.960] in your, in your decision-making.
[01:10:43.960 -> 01:10:44.800] Totally agree.
[01:10:44.800 -> 01:10:46.040] And I think, you know, on behalf of all of us
[01:10:46.040 -> 01:10:48.000] on the High Performance Podcast,
[01:10:48.000 -> 01:10:49.240] I know Stephen listens to these.
[01:10:49.240 -> 01:10:51.700] I would say, Stephen, thank you again so much for coming on
[01:10:51.700 -> 01:10:55.320] and trusting us with the absolute truth.
[01:10:55.320 -> 01:10:57.120] Chris on Insta says he listens each week
[01:10:57.120 -> 01:10:59.120] while walking to his NHS job.
[01:10:59.120 -> 01:11:00.480] He loves the escapism and the learning.
[01:11:00.480 -> 01:11:02.880] Chris, first of all, thanks for everything that you've done
[01:11:02.880 -> 01:11:04.280] during this global pandemic
[01:11:04.280 -> 01:11:06.000] on behalf of the National Health Service.
[01:11:06.000 -> 01:11:07.720] He also says, Damien,
[01:11:07.720 -> 01:11:09.500] I wonder if there's a good gap
[01:11:09.500 -> 01:11:11.780] for more people who tried but failed.
[01:11:11.780 -> 01:11:14.120] And actually, I think it's quite a nice exercise,
[01:11:14.120 -> 01:11:16.620] don't you Damien, to listen back to the podcasts
[01:11:16.620 -> 01:11:19.160] and listen out for the conversations about failure.
[01:11:19.160 -> 01:11:20.640] Because I think there is more in there
[01:11:20.640 -> 01:11:21.960] than people think there is.
[01:11:21.960 -> 01:11:23.920] They just focus on the bits
[01:11:23.920 -> 01:11:25.280] where people talk about the success,
[01:11:25.280 -> 01:11:26.480] because they think that's the learning.
[01:11:26.480 -> 01:11:27.320] Yeah, yeah.
[01:11:27.320 -> 01:11:30.000] I think it's interesting that a lot of the people
[01:11:30.000 -> 01:11:31.400] that we have interviewed
[01:11:31.400 -> 01:11:33.440] wouldn't describe themselves as successful.
[01:11:33.440 -> 01:11:35.840] They just see themselves as resilient
[01:11:35.840 -> 01:11:39.300] or they've just persevered through an awful lot of failures.
[01:11:39.300 -> 01:11:42.000] So that's a label that,
[01:11:42.000 -> 01:11:43.680] describing somebody as a success is a label
[01:11:43.680 -> 01:11:44.520] that we put on them,
[01:11:44.520 -> 01:11:46.480] but that's not necessarily the way
[01:11:46.480 -> 01:11:48.400] that they would describe themselves.
[01:11:48.400 -> 01:11:50.000] Yeah, really interesting stuff, Damien.
[01:11:50.000 -> 01:11:52.320] And I also want to mention an email we got this week
[01:11:52.320 -> 01:11:55.120] because one of the things that Damien and I are proud of
[01:11:55.120 -> 01:11:57.120] is that this podcast is listened to
[01:11:57.120 -> 01:12:00.920] by a hard to reach audience of young men.
[01:12:00.920 -> 01:12:03.720] They're hard to get hold of, they're hard to impact,
[01:12:03.720 -> 01:12:07.620] and it's hard to change their mindset. And I'm really proud this podcast is doing that. But it's also
[01:12:07.620 -> 01:12:12.140] really important to us that everyone listens to this. We love it when we get
[01:12:12.140 -> 01:12:16.100] messages like this saying, one of the people who your podcast has helped the
[01:12:16.100 -> 01:12:21.700] most has been my 79 year old mum Avril Oten. Living alone during the pandemic
[01:12:21.700 -> 01:12:24.660] she's found the past few months difficult at times but given the kind of
[01:12:24.660 -> 01:12:25.660] person she is, she refuses to be past few months difficult at times, but given the kind of person she is,
[01:12:25.660 -> 01:12:28.260] she refuses to be beaten and continues to find ways
[01:12:28.260 -> 01:12:30.460] to keep moving forwards and remain positive,
[01:12:30.460 -> 01:12:33.300] something she always did as a successful business woman.
[01:12:33.300 -> 01:12:34.600] But one of the main catalysts
[01:12:34.600 -> 01:12:36.600] for the way she's approached this pandemic
[01:12:36.600 -> 01:12:38.060] has been your podcast.
[01:12:38.060 -> 01:12:40.280] That has put a smile on my face, Damien,
[01:12:40.280 -> 01:12:41.760] bigger than you can imagine.
[01:12:41.760 -> 01:12:43.100] Wow, that's incredible.
[01:12:43.100 -> 01:12:46.160] That's, yeah, I am humbled by that, that somebody is listening to it and finding it helpful, yn fwy na'r gallwch chi'n meddwl. Wow, dyna'n anhygoel. Ie, rwy'n ymdrechgar o hynny,
[01:12:46.160 -> 01:12:48.320] bod rhywun yn mynd i'w gwrando
[01:12:48.320 -> 01:12:49.600] a'i ddod o'n ddangos yn ddefnyddiol,
[01:12:49.600 -> 01:12:52.240] yn enwedig yn y cyfansoddau cyfrifol.
[01:12:52.240 -> 01:12:54.280] Ac Avril, rwy'n mor ddim,
[01:12:54.280 -> 01:12:55.360] y byddwch yn mynd i'w gwrando.
[01:12:55.360 -> 01:12:56.480] Ac yr hyn rydw i'n ei ddweud i unrhyw un
[01:12:56.480 -> 01:12:57.000] sy'n mynd i'r cwrs yma,
[01:12:57.000 -> 01:12:57.840] os oes rhywun rydych chi'n gwybod
[01:12:57.840 -> 01:12:59.200] sy'n gallu gwneud hynny
[01:12:59.200 -> 01:13:00.680] mewn y math o sgwrs,
[01:13:00.680 -> 01:13:01.680] ond, ar gyfer unrhyw rheswm,
[01:13:01.680 -> 01:13:03.080] nid oes ganddyn nhw ddod o'r podcast
[01:13:03.080 -> 01:13:03.520] neu nad yw'r ffordd
[01:13:03.520 -> 01:13:07.440] y gallwn eu gwrando. Dymuno, ddod o'r ffordd i'w ddod o'r ffodus i'r pod. conversations but for whatever reason they haven't found the podcast or they're not the kind of person that would, please just feel free to throw
[01:13:07.440 -> 01:13:10.840] them the link to the pod. Just get them to listen to one episode because what we
[01:13:10.840 -> 01:13:14.820] find is that people go for one and then they start really getting involved in it
[01:13:14.820 -> 01:13:18.520] and then they just binge listen to the lot. Damian thanks so much man for your
[01:13:18.520 -> 01:13:22.640] time. Happy Easter to you. Yeah same to you and your family as well Jake. Thanks
[01:13:22.640 -> 01:13:27.280] for having me along again. No worries mate, lots of love as always. Thanks to you for listening to the podcast.
[01:13:27.280 -> 01:13:31.680] You are the people that keep this one going. Just a quick reminder, you can follow us on Instagram,
[01:13:31.680 -> 01:13:36.320] you can find us on YouTube. It really, really helps the pod if you can rate and review it.
[01:13:36.320 -> 01:13:41.440] I would love you to do that right now. And also don't forget we have a high performance book
[01:13:41.440 -> 01:13:45.680] coming out this year and right now you can go to the description
[01:13:45.680 -> 01:13:46.520] for this podcast.
[01:13:46.520 -> 01:13:48.920] The link is there, click it and pre-order the book
[01:13:48.920 -> 01:13:49.920] right now on Amazon.
[01:13:49.920 -> 01:13:52.240] And thank you to the many, many people
[01:13:52.240 -> 01:13:55.760] who've already pre-ordered the high performance book.
[01:13:55.760 -> 01:13:57.240] Thanks as always to the great team
[01:13:57.240 -> 01:13:58.680] behind the high performance podcast,
[01:13:58.680 -> 01:14:00.800] to Hannah and Will, we couldn't do it without you.
[01:14:00.800 -> 01:14:04.280] And also to Finn Ryan at Rethink Audio for his hard work.
[01:14:04.280 -> 01:14:05.880] And also let me please shout out
[01:14:05.880 -> 01:14:08.760] givemesport.com forward slash podcasts.
[01:14:08.760 -> 01:14:10.600] They are our official partner
[01:14:10.600 -> 01:14:12.240] and we would love you to head over there
[01:14:12.240 -> 01:14:14.860] and check out some of the content on Give Me Sport.
[01:14:14.860 -> 01:14:16.920] It's a big load of thanks to everyone
[01:14:16.920 -> 01:14:18.620] who continues to make this podcast
[01:14:18.620 -> 01:14:20.280] bigger and bigger every week.
[01:14:20.280 -> 01:14:22.460] Once again, hundreds of thousands of people
[01:14:22.460 -> 01:14:45.000] have downloaded these pods in the last seven days. Long may it continue. See you soon. We've locked in the pump. We've locked in the pump. We've locked in the pump. We've locked in the pump. We've locked in the pump.
[01:14:45.000 -> 01:14:46.000] We've locked in the pump.
[01:14:46.000 -> 01:14:47.000] We've locked in the pump.
[01:14:47.000 -> 01:14:48.000] We've locked in the pump.
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[01:15:04.000 -> 01:15:05.440] We've locked in the pump. We've locked in the pump. We've locked in the pump. We've locked in up to $1 per gallon at the pump. So it's easy to save big.
[01:15:05.440 -> 01:15:07.640] Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone.
[01:15:07.640 -> 01:15:08.640] Savings may vary by state.
[01:15:08.640 -> 01:15:09.640] Fuel restrictions apply.
[01:15:09.640 -> 01:15:12.880] We've locked in low prices to help you save big store wide.
[01:15:12.880 -> 01:15:17.040] Look for the locked in low prices tags and enjoy extra savings throughout the store.
[01:15:17.040 -> 01:15:18.800] Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone.
[01:15:15.490 -> 01:15:17.550] you