E50 - Neil Fachie: How to avoid getting stuck; the power of pivoting

Neil Fachie is a long-standing member of the Great Britain Cycling Team. Neil is a 2012 Paralympic champion and reigning world champion and tandem kilo world record holder.

A track and field athlete at his debut Paralympics, Neil made the switch to track cycling in time for the London Games four years later winning gold and silver in the tandem B events, for athletes with a visual impairment.

It is an area in which the Scotsman has proved dominant, winning 14 gold medals at UCI Para-cycling Track World Championships between 2009 and 2020 in the tandem B kilo and sprint disciplines. Neil also added another Paralympic medal to his collection in 2016, winning silver in Rio. Neil's book 'Earn Your Stripes – Gold Medal Insights for Business and Life' is out now.

PRE-ORDER THE NEW HIGH PERFORMANCE BOOK NOW! smarturl.it/hv0sdz

A big thanks to our founding partners Lotus Cars and GIVEMESPORT - the exclusive sports partner of the High Performance Podcast. To gain further access to editorial and social content from the Podcast click here https://www.givemesport.com/podcast

Remember, you can also get extended episodes of the podcast on our YouTube channel bit.ly/HPPYouTube and follow us on Instagram @highperformance.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

### Episode Summary: ###

- Neil Fachie is a Paralympic champion, world champion, and tandem kilo world record holder.


- He was a track and field athlete before switching to track cycling for the London Paralympics, where he won gold and silver in tandem B events.


- He has won 14 gold medals at UCI Para-cycling Track World Championships between 2009 and 2020.


- Fachie also won a silver medal at the Rio Paralympics in 2016.


- His book, "Earn Your Stripes – Gold Medal Insights for Business and Life," is available now.


- The hosts, Jake Humphrey and Damien Hughes, are excited to announce their upcoming book, "High Performance," which will be published by Penguin Random House in December 2023.


- They encourage listeners to pre-order the book from Amazon.


- Mint Mobile is offering a limited-time deal of $15 per month for a 3-month unlimited wireless plan.


- Neil Fachie discusses the importance of finding ways to overcome challenges and not get stuck in a rut.


- He shares how he learned to embrace his disability and use it as a strength.


- He emphasizes the value of problem-solving and adapting to changing circumstances.


- Fachie talks about the mental challenges athletes face, including negative thoughts and fears.


- He describes a technique he uses to overcome negative thoughts, which involves gripping his handlebars three times before a race and associating that action with positive emotions.


- Damien Hughes explains that the human brain is wired to be cautious and to identify threats, which can lead to anxiety and fear in certain situations.


- Fachie discusses the importance of building trust and honesty in a team sport, using his experience as a visually impaired cyclist who rides on a tandem bike with a sighted pilot as an example.


- He emphasizes the need for open communication and the willingness to put faith in one's teammates.


- The episode concludes with a reminder to pre-order the hosts' upcoming book, "High Performance."

Neil Fachie, a renowned Paralympic champion and world record holder in track cycling, shares his journey from sprinting to cycling and the pivotal moment that led him to pursue a career in the sport. Despite facing challenges and setbacks, Neil's unwavering determination and resilience propelled him to achieve remarkable success in cycling. His story highlights the importance of perseverance, adaptability, and embracing new opportunities.

Neil emphasizes the significance of establishing clear roles and responsibilities within a team, particularly in tandem cycling, where effective communication and coordination are crucial for success. He stresses the need for open and honest discussions to address weaknesses and improve team dynamics, ultimately leading to enhanced performance.

Neil reflects on the challenges he faced as an individual athlete transitioning to a team environment, acknowledging the need to adapt his communication style and embrace a more collaborative approach. He highlights the importance of fostering a positive team culture, where open dialogue and mutual respect create a supportive and high-performing environment.

Neil shares his experience of receiving candid feedback from his teammate, Matt, regarding his perceived lack of enthusiasm and engagement during training sessions. He acknowledges the value of constructive criticism in identifying areas for improvement and emphasizes the importance of embracing feedback as an opportunity for personal and professional growth.

Neil delves into the early stages of his career as a sprinter, expressing his initial disappointment at not qualifying for the 2008 Beijing Paralympics. He describes the subsequent challenges he faced in securing employment due to his visual impairment, leading to a period of unemployment and self-doubt.

Neil's determination to overcome adversity led him to explore alternative sports, eventually finding his calling in cycling. He recounts a serendipitous encounter at a velodrome, where he met a pilot, Craig McLean, who invited him to try tandem cycling. This chance meeting marked a turning point in Neil's life, setting him on a path to Paralympic success.

Neil reflects on the significance of this serendipitous moment, acknowledging that it instilled a sense of serenity and confidence in his abilities. He emphasizes the importance of embracing opportunities, even when they arise unexpectedly, and highlights the potential for remarkable outcomes when stepping outside one's comfort zone.

Neil addresses the apparent contradiction between his fear of making phone calls and his ability to perform under immense pressure in competitions. He explains that while he struggles with everyday stressors, he thrives in high-stakes situations, attributing this to the structured and predictable nature of competitive events.

Neil emphasizes the importance of setting ambitious goals and breaking them down into manageable steps, creating a clear path toward achieving long-term objectives. He shares his experience of setting a target of surpassing the able-bodied Olympic counterparts' performance in the tandem cycling event, ultimately achieving this goal after years of dedication and perseverance.

Neil reflects on the disappointment of winning a silver medal at the 2016 Rio Paralympics, despite being the overwhelming favorite. He describes the devastating impact of this setback and the subsequent realization that he needed to explore new avenues beyond competitive cycling.

Neil discovered a passion for sharing his knowledge and experience gained through his athletic career, recognizing the applicability of these lessons to various fields, including business and other sports. He expresses his desire to help others achieve their full potential by providing them with the tools and strategies he has acquired over the years.

In the quickfire questions segment, Neil highlights punctuality, respect, and honesty as non-negotiable behaviors that he expects from himself and those around him. He emphasizes the importance of effective communication, surrounding oneself with positive and supportive people, and maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

Neil Fachie is a decorated British track and field athlete and cyclist, having won Paralympic gold in both disciplines. He transitioned from track and field to cycling for the 2012 London Games, where he secured a gold and silver medal in tandem B events for visually impaired athletes.

Fachie's cycling career has been marked by exceptional dominance, earning him 14 gold medals in the tandem B kilo and sprint disciplines at the UCI Para-cycling Track World Championships between 2009 and 2020. He added to his Paralympic medal collection with a silver in Rio 2016.

Fachie's journey to success wasn't without challenges. He struggled with accepting his visual impairment, initially resisting the use of a white cane due to the perceived stigma. However, a pivotal moment came when his wife, Laura, encouraged him to embrace his disability and use a cane for safety. This realization led to a newfound empowerment and pride in his identity.

Despite his remarkable achievements, Fachie remains grounded and focused on continuous improvement. He emphasizes the importance of grit, dedication, and the ability to take a step back and gain perspective as key qualities for success.

When asked about advice for his younger self, Fachie stresses the significance of accepting one's disability and embracing it as a defining characteristic rather than a weakness. He also highlights the value of perseverance and the ability to make progress every day, even when motivation is lacking.

Fachie's legacy extends beyond his personal accomplishments. He is passionate about empowering others, particularly those with disabilities, to pursue their aspirations and overcome perceived limitations. He believes in leaving a positive impact on the world and inspiring others to achieve their full potential.

In summary, Neil Fachie's journey is a testament to the power of resilience, self-acceptance, and the relentless pursuit of excellence. His story serves as an inspiration to anyone seeking to overcome challenges and live a high-performance life, both in sports and beyond.

[00:00.000 -> 00:08.160] Hi there, welcome along to another episode of the High Performance Podcast. But we're
[00:08.160 -> 00:13.600] going to start by not talking about the podcast because we have some really big news. Damien
[00:13.600 -> 00:17.600] and I are so excited to make this announcement. Damien, do you want to do it or shall I?
[00:17.600 -> 00:18.600] No, you do it, Jake.
[00:18.600 -> 00:19.600] No, you do it.
[00:19.600 -> 00:20.600] We've got a book coming out.
[00:20.600 -> 00:26.160] Oh, what Damien, man? When you get, no. When I say do you want to do it, you've got to literally go, we've got a book coming out. Oh, what Damien, man? When you get, no, when I say to you,
[00:26.160 -> 00:27.800] you've got to literally go,
[00:27.800 -> 00:29.520] we've got a book coming out.
[00:29.520 -> 00:31.480] Well, we have, we've got a book coming out.
[00:31.480 -> 00:32.520] We've got a book coming out.
[00:32.520 -> 00:35.800] We are incredibly proud that we've been writing a book
[00:35.800 -> 00:37.600] over the last 12 months, haven't we, Jake?
[00:37.600 -> 00:40.720] And it's due to come out towards the end of this year.
[00:40.720 -> 00:44.160] We both are incredibly excited to share it with you.
[00:44.160 -> 00:46.640] So excited. So excited.
[00:46.640 -> 00:52.320] It's called, would you believe it, High Performance. It's been published by Penguin Random House.
[00:52.320 -> 00:56.320] It will be out on the 9th of December. Now, obviously, that is really big news because
[00:56.320 -> 01:00.920] it's not just Damien and I taking the things we've talked about in the podcast. We're also
[01:00.920 -> 01:04.620] applying some science. We're discussing it in a way you've not sort of heard us talk
[01:04.620 -> 01:08.160] about it before. Lots of personal experiences as well. And we're trying
[01:08.160 -> 01:12.600] to sort of bring all the things across all the episodes that people have reacted to on
[01:12.600 -> 01:17.320] the High Performance Podcast into one place, which will be the book. That's big news, but
[01:17.320 -> 01:24.280] also, you can pre-order it right now. The link is in the podcast description. It's also
[01:24.280 -> 01:26.000] all over our social media. So you
[01:26.000 -> 01:31.400] can go to at LiquidThinker, which is where Damien is on Instagram. I'm at Jake Humphrey
[01:31.400 -> 01:36.800] on Instagram, Mr. Jake Humphrey on Twitter. You can follow High Performance on Instagram.
[01:36.800 -> 01:41.320] All of those places, there'll be information right this very moment about how you can pre-order
[01:41.320 -> 01:45.560] the book right now from Amazon. We just want to take things even further.
[01:45.560 -> 01:47.240] I know we don't want to give away too much
[01:47.240 -> 01:49.220] at this stage, Damien,
[01:49.220 -> 01:51.800] but what would you like to tell people at this point
[01:51.800 -> 01:55.320] that doesn't say too much, but kind of tells them enough?
[01:55.320 -> 01:57.740] Like my favorite definition of high performance is
[01:57.740 -> 01:59.120] how do you do the best you can
[01:59.120 -> 02:01.880] with the knowledge you've got in the place that you're in?
[02:01.880 -> 02:04.320] So it's almost about, it's not about being a world champion.
[02:04.320 -> 02:05.660] It's not about making millions.
[02:05.660 -> 02:09.280] It's about how do you introduce high performance
[02:09.280 -> 02:11.240] from the place that you start from?
[02:11.240 -> 02:13.760] And I think it breaks down a lot of those principles
[02:13.760 -> 02:16.920] and gives you some easy ways into high performance
[02:16.920 -> 02:19.520] that you can introduce to you in your personal
[02:19.520 -> 02:20.840] or your professional life.
[02:20.840 -> 02:21.660] I love that.
[02:21.660 -> 02:23.320] That is exactly what this book is.
[02:23.320 -> 02:26.000] And if you pre-order it right now, you will be one of the first people.
[02:26.000 -> 02:29.000] You will receive it on that morning on the 9th of December.
[02:29.000 -> 02:33.000] I know it's a while to wait, but trust me, the wait is going to be worth it.
[02:33.000 -> 02:36.000] And thanks, Damien, for giving it the big sell.
[02:36.000 -> 02:41.000] I know I'm not a natural marketer. You'll have to forgive me for that.
[02:41.000 -> 02:44.000] Listen, mate, content is king and it's all about what's inside the book.
[02:44.000 -> 02:45.200] So there you go. One more time. to forget. Listen, mate, content is king and it's all about what's inside the book. So
[02:45.200 -> 02:50.280] there you go. One more time, the high performance book published by Penguin Random House is
[02:50.280 -> 02:54.720] coming your way on the 9th of December. You can preorder it right now from Amazon. We
[02:54.720 -> 02:59.320] couldn't be more excited. But right now, let's get back to what we do. And that's bringing
[02:59.320 -> 03:04.640] you episodes of the High Performance Podcast. Thank you to you for listening. Here is today's
[03:04.640 -> 03:05.260] episode of the High Performance Podcast. Thank you to you for listening. Here is today's episode
[03:05.260 -> 03:08.360] of the High Performance Podcast.
[03:08.360 -> 03:14.960] Ryan Reynolds here from Int Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during
[03:14.960 -> 03:19.720] inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse
[03:19.720 -> 03:21.880] auctioneer, which is apparently a thing.
[03:21.880 -> 03:30.000] Mint Mobile Un unlimited premium wireless. How do I get 30, 30, 30, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month.
[03:30.000 -> 03:34.000] So give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.
[03:34.000 -> 03:36.000] $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees.
[03:36.000 -> 03:37.000] Promote it for new customers for a limited time.
[03:37.000 -> 03:39.000] Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month.
[03:39.000 -> 03:41.000] Full terms at mintmobile.com.
[03:43.000 -> 03:47.320] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you
[03:47.320 -> 03:52.360] can live a better life and that's why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share.
[03:52.360 -> 03:57.040] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their
[03:57.040 -> 04:00.440] phone plans online and passes those savings to you.
[04:00.440 -> 04:10.680] And for a limited time they're passing on even more savings, with a new customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month when you purchase a 3 month plan.
[04:10.680 -> 04:17.080] That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month.
[04:17.080 -> 04:21.880] And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison to providers
[04:21.880 -> 04:29.560] that we've worked with before is incredible. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans for 15 bucks a
[04:29.560 -> 04:33.560] month. So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, those jaw-dropping
[04:33.560 -> 04:37.520] monthly bills, those unexpected overages, because all the plans come with
[04:37.520 -> 04:41.800] unlimited talk and text and high-speed data delivered on the nation's largest
[04:41.800 -> 04:46.000] 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan,
[04:46.000 -> 04:49.400] bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[04:49.400 -> 04:53.000] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal
[04:53.000 -> 04:56.800] and get premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month.
[04:56.800 -> 05:01.000] To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan
[05:01.000 -> 05:05.980] for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash HPP that's
[05:05.980 -> 05:12.000] mintmobile.com slash HPP cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at
[05:12.000 -> 05:17.540] mintmobile.com slash HPP additional taxes fees and restrictions apply see
[05:17.540 -> 05:20.880] mint mobile for details
[05:23.280 -> 05:28.360] hi there I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves
[05:28.360 -> 05:33.560] into the minds of some of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs and artists
[05:33.560 -> 05:39.120] on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to their success. As ever, my personal
[05:39.120 -> 05:43.900] professor, my awesome author, my learned lecturer, Damien Hughes is with us. And today's guest
[05:43.900 -> 05:46.000] is not just an elite athlete, Damien. He's a 14 time world champion, double world record Diolch yn fawr, Damion Hughes, fy ysgrifennydd dysgu. Dyma dynas ddiweddar, nid dim ond dynas athletau.
[05:46.000 -> 05:48.000] Mae'n ddwywyddiant o gwmpas,
[05:48.000 -> 05:49.000] a chyflawni gwyrdd,
[05:49.000 -> 05:51.000] ond hefyd mae'n dynas gydag un sy'n gwych o ddiddorol
[05:51.000 -> 05:54.000] a mynedd gwych o ffynedau gwych
[05:54.000 -> 05:58.000] sydd wedi gweld yn ymwneud ag eich cyfnod o'ch gweld
[05:58.000 -> 06:00.000] i ddod yn cymdeithasol i'w wlad.
[06:00.000 -> 06:02.000] Beth ydych chi'n mwy o edrych arno i ddysgu amdanyn nhw?
[06:02.000 -> 06:05.920] Rwy'n mwynhau'r podcast ddiweddar, Jake.n nhw? Rwy'n mor cyffrous am ddiweddodd y podcast hwn, Jake,
[06:05.920 -> 06:10.640] ac rwy'n credu bod y thema i mi sydd wedi dod allan o hynny yw'r syniad hwn o ddod â'r
[06:10.640 -> 06:16.480] stwc. Rwy'n credu bod y rhan fwyaf o ni ar gyfer cyfnodau yn troi'n ddiweddarau neu cyfnodau
[06:16.480 -> 06:21.680] lle mae'n aml yn teimlo'n fwy o stwc neu'n ddefnyddio a gwybod sut i ddod allan o hynny, ac
[06:21.680 -> 06:27.240] mae ein gynulliad heddiw yn unrhyw enghraifft perffaith o rywun sy'n defnyddio how to get out of it. And our guest today is a perfect example of somebody that's just refused to be stuck
[06:27.240 -> 06:29.320] in a certain position and found ways out.
[06:29.320 -> 06:31.600] And I'm excited to explore that.
[06:31.600 -> 06:34.680] Well, let's welcome then to the High Performance Podcast,
[06:34.680 -> 06:37.320] Paralympic athlete, Neil Fackie, MBE.
[06:37.320 -> 06:40.000] Neil, thanks so much for agreeing to be on the podcast,
[06:40.000 -> 06:43.360] but in actual fact, we got an email from you saying,
[06:43.360 -> 06:45.720] I've listened to series one, I'd love to be involved.
[06:45.720 -> 06:48.800] So obviously that's something that we love
[06:48.800 -> 06:50.680] because it's people that really understand
[06:50.680 -> 06:52.080] where the podcast is coming from.
[06:52.080 -> 06:54.400] But also you clearly had a message
[06:54.400 -> 06:56.360] that you felt you wanted to share
[06:56.360 -> 06:58.960] with the listeners of the High Performance Podcast.
[06:58.960 -> 07:00.960] Yeah, I mean, firstly, I'm a big fan
[07:00.960 -> 07:01.940] of what you guys are doing.
[07:01.940 -> 07:04.920] I mean, combining the world of sport,
[07:04.920 -> 07:05.200] obviously you both have interests there with that, combining the world of sport, obviously,
[07:05.200 -> 07:08.800] both of interest there with that world of high performance, really, you know, something that
[07:08.800 -> 07:14.240] really interests me because I've been involved in elite sport for over a decade and been at the top
[07:14.240 -> 07:18.800] of my sport for a lot of that time. And it's only kind of now that I'm at the end of my career,
[07:18.800 -> 07:22.800] reflecting back, I can see the sort of lessons I've learned along the way. And I just kind of
[07:22.800 -> 07:26.920] want to share some of that experience and that kind of attitude about how you find that mindset
[07:26.920 -> 07:29.000] to, as Damien said, not be stuck
[07:29.000 -> 07:31.680] and to keep making that little improvement day on day
[07:31.680 -> 07:32.720] to keep moving forwards,
[07:32.720 -> 07:36.520] because the world of sport and business, everything,
[07:36.520 -> 07:38.280] you know, everything's moving fast,
[07:38.280 -> 07:39.280] the world is changing
[07:39.280 -> 07:41.200] and you've got to stay ahead of the competition.
[07:41.200 -> 07:42.360] So if I ask you then,
[07:42.360 -> 07:45.120] when you were listening to series one of the pod,
[07:50.560 -> 07:51.360] what's the one, the number one thing that you really felt an urge to share with the listeners?
[07:56.080 -> 08:00.800] Um, well, one of the episodes I really enjoyed actually was, I think a lot of people did, was the Robin van Persie when he was speaking, that moment when he talked about speaking to his son
[08:00.800 -> 08:06.160] and passing all that information of, you know, I'm going to love you no matter what.
[08:06.160 -> 08:08.720] If you want to be a loser, be a loser.
[08:08.720 -> 08:10.760] But, you know, this is how you have to kind of
[08:10.760 -> 08:12.560] take responsibility.
[08:12.560 -> 08:15.540] And I think that's something I perhaps have learned
[08:15.540 -> 08:17.800] over the years is that with my disability,
[08:17.800 -> 08:20.280] my condition, that for a long time I was in denial
[08:20.280 -> 08:22.480] about having a disability at all.
[08:22.480 -> 08:23.940] I kind of hid it from the world.
[08:23.940 -> 08:26.840] And it's only in recent years I've become more confident
[08:26.840 -> 08:29.440] that I've realized having that something unique
[08:29.440 -> 08:31.320] and different about myself
[08:31.320 -> 08:33.160] that might be perceived as a weakness,
[08:33.160 -> 08:35.360] I actually find is a real great strength
[08:35.360 -> 08:38.000] and something now that I'm proud to share the fact
[08:38.000 -> 08:41.640] that I have a disability and I actually can use my weakness
[08:41.640 -> 08:43.640] as a strength and something that kind of helps
[08:43.640 -> 08:47.020] move me forward in the world. And I think lots of people could learn from that.
[08:47.020 -> 08:53.340] So do you think then that you do have a disability? Because disability is such a negative phrase,
[08:53.340 -> 08:57.700] isn't it? You know, you've got something that's different to me and different to Damien, but
[08:57.700 -> 09:00.340] actually almost gives you something that we don't have.
[09:00.340 -> 09:03.820] Yeah. And that's the way I've often looked at it. I mean, it was something, as I say,
[09:03.820 -> 09:06.760] when I was younger, my teenage years, I probably resented it.
[09:07.840 -> 09:10.000] But I've realized looking back that, yeah,
[09:10.000 -> 09:13.640] that ability to problem solve has been incredible for me.
[09:13.640 -> 09:16.280] So like my eye condition gets worse over time.
[09:16.280 -> 09:18.240] So I have to face the realistic probability
[09:18.240 -> 09:20.840] at some point in my life, I'll go totally blind.
[09:20.840 -> 09:22.400] At this point, I still have some sight,
[09:22.400 -> 09:23.560] but it's quite blurry.
[09:23.560 -> 09:28.680] And when I was younger, it was much better. So I've constantly had to adapt how I go about
[09:28.680 -> 09:32.440] in the world, how I was educated at school, that was constantly
[09:32.440 -> 09:36.000] changing. And it's just problem-solving that I've kind of really learned. And I
[09:36.000 -> 09:39.720] actually really enjoyed problem-solving now, that ability to overcome something
[09:39.720 -> 09:44.880] and find a way to do it, I find really exciting. So yeah, I think in many ways
[09:44.880 -> 09:46.560] I'm quite lucky. However, if you were to offer me my do it, I find really exciting. So yeah, I think in many ways I'm quite lucky.
[09:46.560 -> 09:48.840] However, if you were to offer me my eyesight back,
[09:48.840 -> 09:51.040] I'd probably snap your hand off, to be honest.
[09:51.040 -> 09:53.080] But the word disability, I don't know,
[09:53.080 -> 09:54.400] I don't hate it, to be honest.
[09:54.400 -> 09:55.720] It's something that's often discussed,
[09:55.720 -> 09:58.920] but I don't really see it as a negative myself anymore,
[09:58.920 -> 10:00.280] but that's probably because I'm surrounded
[10:00.280 -> 10:01.840] by other people with disabilities
[10:01.840 -> 10:03.880] who are excelling at what they do.
[10:03.880 -> 10:06.960] So can we explore this idea then, Neil, about,
[10:06.960 -> 10:08.840] you described it as problem solving,
[10:08.840 -> 10:12.440] and I described it as the ability to not remain stuck.
[10:12.440 -> 10:13.920] Would you break that process down?
[10:13.920 -> 10:17.080] Because it sounds like it's something you've had to learn
[10:17.080 -> 10:20.400] from quite a young age of when you're faced with a challenge.
[10:20.400 -> 10:22.840] How do you go about dealing with that?
[10:22.840 -> 10:24.560] Yeah, interesting question. I like that.
[10:24.560 -> 10:29.240] It's, for me, initially, I think it was that case
[10:29.240 -> 10:32.280] of just trying to prove people wrong.
[10:32.280 -> 10:34.240] I said, I didn't really accept my disability.
[10:34.240 -> 10:37.680] I wanted to do the things that other people did.
[10:37.680 -> 10:39.980] So for a long time, I used that kind of almost chip
[10:39.980 -> 10:42.120] on the shoulder mentality where, you know,
[10:42.120 -> 10:44.880] people said, you know, someone with your eyesight
[10:44.880 -> 10:45.680] shouldn't be
[10:45.680 -> 10:51.360] doing these things and um I just wanted to prove that I can and it's just that fighting attitude
[10:51.360 -> 10:57.040] but to be honest in later life it's kind of changed a lot where now it's that ability to
[10:57.040 -> 11:00.720] to reflect on situations that are tough and I've gone through quite a lot in my sporting career
[11:00.720 -> 11:05.120] where I've hit real low points and you know you've had to
[11:05.120 -> 11:09.240] take that, you don't always just bounce back straight away and it's not that
[11:09.240 -> 11:14.440] easy that you're just a resilient person who can take a knock and just carry on
[11:14.440 -> 11:19.080] but now it's a case more of you take that time to almost go through a
[11:19.080 -> 11:24.960] grieving process where you take the loss on board, take that step back and look at
[11:24.960 -> 11:25.120] it from a different perspective and I think that's the key thing I've learned where you take the loss on board, take that step back and look at it
[11:25.120 -> 11:26.120] from a different perspective.
[11:26.120 -> 11:27.480] And I think that's the key thing I've learned
[11:27.480 -> 11:28.920] is taking different perspectives,
[11:28.920 -> 11:30.480] taking a step back from the emotion
[11:30.480 -> 11:31.760] and looking at things logically,
[11:31.760 -> 11:34.260] and then just realizing that there's a bigger picture,
[11:34.260 -> 11:36.120] there's more opportunities,
[11:36.120 -> 11:38.000] there's more angles you can approach things at.
[11:38.000 -> 11:40.800] And it's just, I find that ability to step back
[11:40.800 -> 11:42.480] and look at it and take on board
[11:42.480 -> 11:44.160] what other people kind of suggest
[11:44.160 -> 11:45.240] from a different
[11:45.240 -> 11:51.320] angle as well. So it's just not being that one individual who's in it, you know, that
[11:51.320 -> 11:55.280] old phrase, you can't see the wood for the trees is pretty common, particularly in sport,
[11:55.280 -> 11:58.080] to be honest, as a lot of it's quite individualized.
[11:58.080 -> 12:02.700] I was reading something the other day, and it said that when you stumble across problems
[12:02.700 -> 12:07.200] in life, 90% of struggling with that problem
[12:07.200 -> 12:08.600] is the way you react to it.
[12:08.600 -> 12:11.280] 10% is actually only the problem itself.
[12:11.280 -> 12:14.040] And that's kind of just redressing this,
[12:14.040 -> 12:15.360] something that we talk about a lot,
[12:15.360 -> 12:17.880] which is fault against responsibility,
[12:17.880 -> 12:18.840] not being a victim.
[12:18.840 -> 12:20.160] That's what this is about, isn't it?
[12:20.160 -> 12:22.800] It's about focusing on the 90%,
[12:22.800 -> 12:24.200] the reaction to the problem,
[12:24.200 -> 12:25.080] rather than quite often, the reaction to the problem, rather than quite
[12:25.080 -> 12:30.000] often the fact that the problem itself is possible to get through it and get past it
[12:30.000 -> 12:31.000] with the right mindset.
[12:31.000 -> 12:37.920] Yeah, and something I often realise is that the thought of doing something is far harder
[12:37.920 -> 12:42.120] than the actual doing as well. So it's that initial step, which is the hardest. And I
[12:42.120 -> 12:45.160] find that every day, to be honest, in training, where I get up in the morning,
[12:45.160 -> 12:46.480] I look at my training program and think,
[12:46.480 -> 12:48.920] oh, not again, you know, it's hideous.
[12:50.360 -> 12:52.760] And the thought of actually getting up and doing it
[12:52.760 -> 12:53.680] is just so hard.
[12:53.680 -> 12:58.640] But if you find a way to kind of create that mindset
[12:58.640 -> 13:01.140] that just helps you take that first step, it's incredible.
[13:01.140 -> 13:03.400] Once you get that momentum going,
[13:03.400 -> 13:04.880] how much you can just plow through it.
[13:04.880 -> 13:08.480] So I think that's where that 10% really comes from. It's just finding that first step. And
[13:08.480 -> 13:12.080] it's almost as simple as that. You take that first step. And once you're on the journey, then
[13:12.880 -> 13:16.320] generally people don't stop. So that's something I've had to train my mind how to
[13:17.280 -> 13:24.720] overcome and accept fear and just roll with it, to be honest, because you realize that that's where
[13:25.560 -> 13:27.680] the good things lie at the end of that path
[13:27.680 -> 13:30.140] once you actually do take those steps into the unknown.
[13:30.140 -> 13:32.260] Damien, a lot of successful people say
[13:32.260 -> 13:35.500] that they don't even entertain the idea of negative thoughts,
[13:35.500 -> 13:37.220] but what Neil is sort of describing there
[13:37.220 -> 13:39.360] is that despite everything he's achieved,
[13:39.360 -> 13:41.180] he still has the negativity in there.
[13:41.180 -> 13:43.500] He still wakes up and thinks, ah, training again,
[13:43.500 -> 13:45.200] but he's learned the tricks to deal with that.
[13:45.200 -> 13:47.040] I think what Neil's describing there is something
[13:47.040 -> 13:49.240] that we've touched on with previous guests, Jake,
[13:49.240 -> 13:52.640] of this idea of, there's a psychologist called Gary Klein
[13:52.640 -> 13:55.000] talks about premortems.
[13:55.000 -> 13:57.160] So what can kill your hopes and your dreams
[13:57.160 -> 14:00.960] and your ambitions is often the fears, the negativity
[14:00.960 -> 14:01.800] and things like that.
[14:01.800 -> 14:03.920] And I think by acknowledging those fears
[14:03.920 -> 14:06.580] and working out how do we overcome them,
[14:06.580 -> 14:08.720] that improves our resilience
[14:08.720 -> 14:10.440] to then be able to confront them.
[14:10.440 -> 14:13.840] Yeah, and it's a really interesting one
[14:13.840 -> 14:16.960] because I think back to when I was young,
[14:16.960 -> 14:19.000] looking at elite athletes,
[14:19.000 -> 14:22.080] I almost saw as being like these Greek gods
[14:22.080 -> 14:24.920] who were almost like mythical beings
[14:24.920 -> 14:27.520] that the rest of us mere mortals couldn't live up to.
[14:28.680 -> 14:31.400] Incredibly resilient, could just take anything on board, you know,
[14:31.400 -> 14:35.840] think back to likes of Steve Redgrave, Chris Hoy, all those guys who really inspired me.
[14:36.360 -> 14:39.240] And it wasn't until you kind of get involved in elite sport you realize that
[14:40.000 -> 14:42.000] there is this real,
[14:42.480 -> 14:49.120] not mental weakness, but real uncertainty with elite athletes who are so involved in their sport that just the odd little
[14:49.520 -> 14:51.520] Bump in the road can be this huge
[14:51.920 -> 14:55.040] Like destabilization for them. It's incredible
[14:55.040 -> 15:00.120] So I don't think most sports people are these incredibly resilient thick-skinned tough people by any means
[15:00.120 -> 15:02.960] but most of them have this sort of system in place to
[15:03.720 -> 15:05.440] To deal with those negative emotions.
[15:05.440 -> 15:09.520] And I have them all the time. I mean, I think those seconds when I'm on the start line,
[15:09.520 -> 15:14.160] so my race, there's a clock by the side of the track that counts you into your race effort,
[15:14.800 -> 15:19.920] counting down from 15 seconds. And you just see this clock ticking down, sort of 10 seconds to
[15:19.920 -> 15:24.800] go. And the thoughts racing through your head at that point aren't generally positive ones of,
[15:24.800 -> 15:28.920] all right, I'm really looking forward to this you know a world championship it's all been
[15:28.920 -> 15:33.040] for this moment instead you're thinking like I don't want to be here this is terrifying
[15:33.040 -> 15:37.340] like what if it all goes wrong and it's just getting bombarded with these negative thoughts
[15:37.340 -> 15:43.080] and I think it's just that ability to realize that in certain situations that's what's going
[15:43.080 -> 15:45.160] to happen anyway and
[15:45.160 -> 15:49.400] you can almost disregard 90% of those thoughts straight away as just being
[15:49.400 -> 15:54.520] well it's because of the situation I'm in and the others I think you you learn
[15:54.520 -> 15:58.520] these techniques and I guess I just learned by doing but now it's I can sort
[15:58.520 -> 16:04.920] of put that into practice that there are ways to overcome those are the ones that
[16:04.920 -> 16:07.240] keep coming back and time and time again.
[16:07.240 -> 16:09.320] So would you explain some of the ways then, Neil?
[16:09.320 -> 16:11.680] Because Chris Hoy used a great phrase with us
[16:11.680 -> 16:12.960] that he said that for a long time,
[16:12.960 -> 16:15.000] he used to pretend to be a lion,
[16:15.000 -> 16:18.120] but he actually felt like a pussycat in those moments.
[16:18.120 -> 16:20.760] So would you describe how you overcame
[16:20.760 -> 16:22.280] those moments of terror?
[16:22.280 -> 16:25.280] So there's one in particular where at the start of our event,
[16:25.280 -> 16:27.880] where you're putting all that power into the bike,
[16:27.880 -> 16:30.520] so you're going from stationary to suddenly putting
[16:30.520 -> 16:33.280] huge force through the bike.
[16:33.280 -> 16:36.280] There's a lot of potential for things going wrong
[16:36.280 -> 16:37.480] and things break on the bike.
[16:37.480 -> 16:38.840] And we had a lot of issues for a while
[16:38.840 -> 16:39.920] where things kept breaking.
[16:39.920 -> 16:42.320] And I started to get those negative thoughts in my head
[16:42.320 -> 16:45.800] where subconsciously, when I was starting,
[16:45.800 -> 16:49.680] I would hold back just a fraction just to make sure everything was fine before I really
[16:49.680 -> 16:54.880] committed and I couldn't switch off no matter what I did.
[16:54.880 -> 16:58.680] Like I say, I'd be thinking fully like I'm just going to commit, I'm going to commit,
[16:58.680 -> 17:02.680] but no matter what happened, there was always this little subconscious one or 2% just took
[17:02.680 -> 17:03.680] off the gas.
[17:03.680 -> 17:10.000] And I had to work with a sports psychologist for a while just to find what was going on.
[17:10.000 -> 17:14.000] And she taught me just a really simple trick that I could train.
[17:14.000 -> 17:20.400] It's kind of like an NLP trigger, neuro linguistic programming, where you're creating an anchor
[17:20.400 -> 17:22.560] that triggers a different emotion in your head.
[17:22.560 -> 17:28.760] So all I had to do was practice gripping my handlebars three times before I did a start.
[17:28.760 -> 17:31.120] And I trained my mind to think about
[17:31.120 -> 17:33.240] sort of real moments where I felt confident
[17:33.240 -> 17:35.200] or I felt strong beforehand.
[17:35.200 -> 17:38.300] So just by repeating this process of linking that
[17:38.300 -> 17:41.580] sort of action to that thought,
[17:41.580 -> 17:43.400] then what tended to happen was after a while
[17:43.400 -> 17:44.680] that I just gripped the bars
[17:44.680 -> 17:45.280] and those thoughts of
[17:45.360 -> 17:50.040] confidence and strength and power just sort of came flooding in and those negative thoughts disappeared and
[17:50.480 -> 17:54.740] suddenly that one or two percent overcame and I was able to commit fully again.
[17:54.740 -> 18:00.080] So, you know, just finding these little things just to overcome those little issues and that's been massively powerful to me.
[18:00.080 -> 18:05.840] Damian, why do us humans have brains that need these little tricks for us to get through?
[18:05.840 -> 18:09.920] What's that about? Wouldn't it be brilliant if we were given a brain where we just believe,
[18:09.920 -> 18:14.640] like, you know that film Limitless, where you feel limitless? Wouldn't it be brilliant if we
[18:14.640 -> 18:19.360] were given these limitless brains rather than having to employ tricks? Because it's Neil
[18:19.360 -> 18:23.840] on the Olympic start line. Well, it might, someone I know used to have to do a very similar thing
[18:23.840 -> 18:25.800] before going out for a public meal because they were anxious eating in public. So, ymlaen, byddai rhywun ddim yn gwybod, yn ddweud y byddai rhai o'n gwybod y byddai'n gwybod, y byddai rhai o'n gwybod y byddai rhai o'n gwybod o'n gwybod
[18:25.800 -> 18:26.800] o'n gwybod
[18:26.800 -> 18:27.800] o'n gwybod
[18:27.800 -> 18:28.800] o'n gwybod
[18:28.800 -> 18:29.800] o'n gwybod
[18:29.800 -> 18:30.800] o'n gwybod
[18:30.800 -> 18:31.800] o'n gwybod
[18:31.800 -> 18:32.800] o'n gwybod
[18:32.800 -> 18:33.800] o'n gwybod
[18:33.800 -> 18:34.800] o'n gwybod
[18:34.800 -> 18:35.800] o'n gwybod
[18:35.800 -> 18:36.800] o'n gwybod
[18:36.800 -> 18:37.800] o'n gwybod
[18:37.800 -> 18:38.800] o'n gwybod
[18:38.800 -> 18:39.800] o'n gwybod
[18:39.800 -> 18:40.800] o'n gwybod
[18:40.800 -> 18:41.800] o'n gwybod
[18:41.800 -> 18:42.800] o'n gwybod
[18:42.800 -> 18:43.800] o'n gwybod
[18:43.800 -> 18:44.800] o'n gwybod
[18:44.800 -> 18:46.400] o'n gwybod o'n gwybod o'n gysylltu'n amlwg i ni gael ein byw ac i ni helpu i
[18:46.400 -> 18:50.640] gynhyrchu, felly mae'n cael ei gysylltu i ddod o hyd i thretau. Ond, wrth i ni ddod o hyd,
[18:50.640 -> 18:56.080] oherwydd yw'r cyhoedd yn ymuno a'n dynnu allan, neu os yw yn y cas Neil, y penderfyniad
[18:56.080 -> 19:01.680] o ddod a chael eich bod yn yr aren gladiatorol honno, mae eich oedran yn dal i fod yn
[19:01.680 -> 19:06.000] gysylltu'n fawr i fod ar hyn o bryus ar gyfer unrhyw ddangos potensial, eich
[19:06.000 -> 19:12.480] gweithgaredd ymdrech. Felly mae'n gwneud swydd da iawn, ond yn ein byd tech 21st, lle
[19:12.480 -> 19:16.800] y ddangosau hynny ddim yn yr un ffordd oedd eu bod yn 10,000 oed, nid yw'n cael ei
[19:16.800 -> 19:21.120] cysylltu ar ôl i'n gwybod ein bod yn gallu, felly mae'n rhaid i ni gael y pethau a'r technigau
[19:21.120 -> 19:29.760] sy'n helpu i ni ymdrechu ac yn ymdrechu ein bod yn ddangos, o ran yr hyn y bydd yn teimlo ar hyn o bryd. tips or techniques that just help us overcome it and convince us that we are safe regardless of however it might feel in the moment. That in itself actually Neil is quite calming isn't it?
[19:29.760 -> 19:35.040] Just to think that the only reason why you're feeling anxious on the start line is because
[19:35.040 -> 19:39.200] you have a prehistoric brain like all of us do that hasn't yet caught up with the modern world.
[19:39.200 -> 19:45.160] That in itself takes you away from that moment and is quite sort of centering isn't it?
[19:45.160 -> 19:49.880] Yeah, you know there's a really interesting stat as well that always makes me feel a bit more
[19:49.880 -> 19:54.760] comfortable is that I think we have somewhere between 60 and 80 thousand
[19:54.760 -> 19:59.600] individual thoughts every day on average. I mean I know some people have
[19:59.600 -> 20:04.680] significantly less I'd say but most of us would be around that amount and most
[20:04.680 -> 20:09.200] of them are obviously absolute rubbish you know, I think some of the thoughts I have,
[20:09.200 -> 20:12.440] and particularly in high stress moments where these things pop in your head that you know
[20:12.440 -> 20:15.040] are completely unacceptable, that you never speak out loud.
[20:15.040 -> 20:19.600] But that thought that these thoughts are just these sort of electrical chemical impulses
[20:19.600 -> 20:27.800] going on in your head that are just so bizarre, and it just helps you disregard some of them. And ones that you think are these really important
[20:27.800 -> 20:30.120] negative thoughts are actually probably just rubbish.
[20:30.120 -> 20:33.040] And it's a way of your brain trying to sabotage you somehow.
[20:33.040 -> 20:34.640] And how much did you share those thoughts
[20:34.640 -> 20:35.720] with other people around you?
[20:35.720 -> 20:38.680] Was there ever a situation where you and other members
[20:38.680 -> 20:41.080] of the team would say, oh, I'm having a nightmare.
[20:41.080 -> 20:43.960] I've got a grip handlebars three times before this race.
[20:43.960 -> 20:48.960] Or was that considered a no-go area for athletes?
[20:49.440 -> 20:52.440] Yeah, to be honest, I hadn't really discussed them a lot
[20:52.440 -> 20:54.600] until I wrote my book recently
[20:54.600 -> 20:57.720] and sort of put them out there posthumously afterwards.
[20:57.720 -> 20:59.840] And yeah, I don't know.
[20:59.840 -> 21:02.200] I mean, I speak about them with a psychologist
[21:02.200 -> 21:04.120] but occasionally with my coach,
[21:04.120 -> 21:06.500] although you're always a little bit conscious that you don't want to appear
[21:07.140 -> 21:12.600] weak in any way to those who make those decisions of selection and who goes to the big races, so
[21:13.000 -> 21:16.000] it's still I think that conception that having this
[21:16.760 -> 21:22.720] an area of mental, not even weakness, but where you're just not quite selling is still
[21:22.720 -> 21:25.360] I don't think we're comfortable in sport yet with
[21:26.560 -> 21:28.560] kind of sharing that and
[21:28.800 -> 21:30.640] You know if you had an injury
[21:30.640 -> 21:34.720] You would go and share spread the word you speak to your physio speak to your coach and you'd rehab
[21:34.720 -> 21:37.600] But I don't think we do that mentally at all by any means so it's improving
[21:37.600 -> 21:40.960] but I definitely didn't share that with anyone, um until
[21:41.600 -> 21:43.680] later in my career, but it's um
[21:43.840 -> 21:46.560] It's interesting looking back because more people have come to me now
[21:46.560 -> 21:49.560] and kind of said similar stories they've had as well,
[21:49.560 -> 21:51.040] which I had no idea to be honest.
[21:51.040 -> 21:52.360] It's interesting that, isn't it, Damian?
[21:52.360 -> 21:53.200] Yeah, very.
[21:53.200 -> 21:56.520] I think this was one of the things that, again,
[21:56.520 -> 21:59.120] we've explored with Chris Hoy,
[21:59.120 -> 22:01.480] was at the vanguard of this.
[22:01.480 -> 22:06.560] And he said that when Steve Peters yn ymwneud â Neil, dweud y byddai
[22:07.920 -> 22:14.560] yn cael ddifrifol o ddifrifol yn y Campionshaps byr 2003 lle roedd yn ychydig yn y
[22:14.560 -> 22:20.640] rhan ddechrau ac roedd yna unig y crisi sy'n ei gyrraedd i ni fynd a ddweud gofyn o rywun o
[22:20.640 -> 22:25.160] ymdrechion ffynedol o'i gynhwysiaeth sydd wedi bod yn catalyst. Yr hyn rwyf yn ddiddorol from the mental aspect of his performance that was a catalyst.
[22:25.160 -> 22:26.360] What I'm interested in Neil,
[22:26.360 -> 22:27.920] if you don't mind exploring though,
[22:27.920 -> 22:30.240] is that you have a different relationship
[22:30.240 -> 22:31.960] than some of the other athletes that we work with
[22:31.960 -> 22:33.640] because you had to work with a pilot,
[22:33.640 -> 22:36.640] somebody that you had a relationship
[22:36.640 -> 22:41.160] where it had to be built on trust and honesty and candor.
[22:41.160 -> 22:43.800] Would you explain a little bit about that relationship
[22:43.800 -> 22:47.360] that our listeners might be able to take something from?
[22:47.360 -> 22:53.320] So yeah, as a visually impaired bike rider, obviously that sounds terrifying to most people,
[22:53.320 -> 22:57.840] but I ride on a tandem bike. So I ride on the back of the bike with a fully sighted
[22:57.840 -> 23:02.960] person on the front and they're known as a pilot. So it's a tandem bike, two people,
[23:02.960 -> 23:05.880] it's a sport for two, a bit like pears rowing, you know,
[23:05.880 -> 23:08.440] we're both peddling as hard as we can.
[23:08.440 -> 23:10.100] So it's very much a team sport.
[23:10.100 -> 23:13.320] And obviously I'm entirely putting my faith in someone
[23:13.320 -> 23:17.140] to ensure they get us around the track safely
[23:17.140 -> 23:19.200] and we don't crash.
[23:19.200 -> 23:21.480] So, you know, it's definitely a relationship
[23:21.480 -> 23:24.240] that needs to be built over time.
[23:27.860 -> 23:30.260] It's not for everyone riding on the back of the time to me there, it's sort of speeds of over 70 kilometers per hour.
[23:30.260 -> 23:34.340] It's, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's quite, uh, it's exhilarating, but if
[23:34.340 -> 23:37.300] you're someone that likes being in control, it's not the place for you by any means.
[23:37.300 -> 23:40.500] So I have to put an incredible amount of faith into them, not only that
[23:40.500 -> 23:50.160] they'll keep me safe, but obviously that they're going to put their bodies on the line physically as well when we go to race because, you know, I'm training full
[23:50.160 -> 23:54.440] time to race at this one occasion at a Paralympics every four years.
[23:54.440 -> 23:58.520] And I of course expect my teammates to be there putting themselves on the line as well.
[23:58.520 -> 24:01.400] So it's very much a team sport in that regard.
[24:01.400 -> 24:03.920] I think that's why I enjoy it so much.
[24:03.920 -> 24:06.400] I used to be an athlete, a runner,
[24:06.400 -> 24:10.720] just running on my own. I just love that team element, that interaction with someone else and
[24:10.720 -> 24:13.760] getting the most out of them as well as yourself. It's really interesting.
[24:13.760 -> 24:16.000] So how did you recruit a pilot then?
[24:16.000 -> 24:20.320] Well, the recruiting process comes through British Cycling themselves. So I don't technically get a
[24:20.320 -> 24:25.520] say in who I ride with, which can lead to you not always riding with someone you particularly
[24:25.520 -> 24:30.560] like as well, which you know in many team sports we have to you know work with different characters,
[24:30.560 -> 24:34.480] people we get on better with than others, but ultimately whoever you're riding with it's the
[24:34.480 -> 24:40.880] job to go as quick as you can as a pairing. So you know you have to approach different
[24:40.880 -> 24:47.120] relationships in very different ways and I've had many different pilots over the years, you know, I've been around a bit to be honest.
[24:47.120 -> 24:49.880] And you have now won world champs
[24:49.880 -> 24:51.960] with four different pilots
[24:51.960 -> 24:53.760] and each one's got a very different character,
[24:53.760 -> 24:56.160] very different riding style as well.
[24:56.160 -> 24:59.960] So, you know, you have to adapt both the way you work
[24:59.960 -> 25:02.560] as a team and kind of physically how you,
[25:02.560 -> 25:04.120] you kind of ride the bike together as well.
[25:04.120 -> 25:06.080] So there's a lot of nuance to it
[25:06.080 -> 25:07.240] and it does take a lot of time,
[25:07.240 -> 25:10.000] but it's been a really interesting way
[25:10.000 -> 25:12.360] to reflect on your own performance as well
[25:12.360 -> 25:15.400] as seeing how other elite athletes train and compete
[25:15.400 -> 25:17.200] and try and get the most out of you.
[25:17.200 -> 25:19.640] So in the best relationships with your pilot,
[25:19.640 -> 25:23.760] when you felt that you were being able to perform
[25:23.760 -> 25:25.120] at your absolute capacity,
[25:25.760 -> 25:27.680] how would you define that relationship?
[25:27.680 -> 25:33.280] You know, probably when I've been at my best, it's particularly been with my latest pilot,
[25:33.280 -> 25:37.280] Matt, when we've, you know, we've pushed the sport onto whole new boundaries,
[25:37.280 -> 25:40.720] breaking world records, and we're very different characters, so
[25:40.720 -> 25:46.120] we bring very different things to the table, but I think it's just
[25:51.240 -> 25:52.160] Almost almost a ruthlessness when we're competing that we'll both put ourselves
[25:57.280 -> 25:58.600] completely on the line day in day out and training to be there and when we actually go race like
[26:03.560 -> 26:07.440] There are some people who perform at the same level and training that they do when they go and compete but we're both individuals who when that big occasion comes the pressure hits
[26:07.440 -> 26:10.840] that we find like a whole different level of performance and that's something
[26:10.840 -> 26:15.120] I'm really proud that we do is you know the big days are when we break the
[26:15.120 -> 26:19.040] records because the pressure is high but we use that to our advantage to really
[26:19.040 -> 26:23.840] power us on and then you know just that that competition day buzzes yeah I think
[26:23.840 -> 26:26.240] we're pretty ruthless when we come together.
[26:26.240 -> 26:28.080] But how explicit are you,
[26:29.080 -> 26:31.760] so when you first come together to work with each other,
[26:31.760 -> 26:34.800] about the non-negotiables, the rules,
[26:34.800 -> 26:36.760] how you're gonna communicate?
[26:36.760 -> 26:40.000] Yeah, I mean, we've had some frank meetings, to be honest,
[26:40.000 -> 26:43.240] where we kind of work together for a little bit
[26:43.240 -> 26:45.840] and we see where things in each other
[26:45.840 -> 26:47.200] that we don't particularly like,
[26:47.200 -> 26:49.520] we see weaknesses in each other.
[26:49.520 -> 26:51.240] And then sometimes you just have to come together
[26:51.240 -> 26:54.400] in a room with, you know, shut the doors,
[26:54.400 -> 26:56.200] maybe just us two and our coach,
[26:56.200 -> 26:58.480] the three of us chat it out and talk about,
[27:00.360 -> 27:01.600] I saw that you do this in training
[27:01.600 -> 27:04.480] and I didn't think it was really in line
[27:04.480 -> 27:06.080] with our kind with what we want
[27:06.080 -> 27:07.600] to do, what our beliefs are.
[27:07.600 -> 27:11.520] And really calling it out, and it's hard to hear to be honest.
[27:11.520 -> 27:17.040] We both had some tough things to say about one another, but taking those moments to do
[27:17.040 -> 27:20.400] that without knowing there's not going to be ramifications once that door is opened
[27:20.400 -> 27:25.080] again and you leave, you've said your piece, we've kind of talked it out. And
[27:25.080 -> 27:28.760] then we go away and take the emotion out of it, take time to think and realise that the
[27:28.760 -> 27:34.680] other one wants the same thing we do. It's just a case of how we approach it slightly
[27:34.680 -> 27:38.760] different and it's incredible how we've kind of both progressed because of that.
[27:38.760 -> 27:43.800] And in the spirit of openness and honesty, Neil, would you be willing to share with us
[27:43.800 -> 27:48.920] things that your partner has said about you that weren't good enough and how you addressed them?
[27:48.920 -> 27:54.800] Yeah, so I'm not someone who generally shows my emotions, bar on race day when, you know,
[27:54.800 -> 27:59.400] across the finish line suddenly I release it. So I often come into training and seem
[27:59.400 -> 28:03.960] quite negative because I'm kind of straight faced. I guess I've got that typical Scottish
[28:03.960 -> 28:06.040] approach, you know, quite, quite dowered. And I just get on straight-faced. I guess I've got that typical Scottish approach, you know, quite quite dowered and
[28:06.720 -> 28:12.560] I just get on with the job and I think often that appears that I'm not interested. I'm not really buying in and
[28:13.840 -> 28:16.480] I'm also not always particularly chatty, you know
[28:16.480 -> 28:21.000] I just get the job done get in do the job and you know push myself to the limit
[28:21.000 -> 28:26.160] But it's quite internalized and I think often my partner doesn't think I'm maybe giving
[28:26.160 -> 28:28.640] it my all because he's quite a emotions on the sleeve
[28:28.640 -> 28:29.480] kind of guy.
[28:29.480 -> 28:31.520] And, you know, he's there big enough for an app.
[28:31.520 -> 28:35.400] And, you know, it's hard to hear that often I come across
[28:35.400 -> 28:37.560] as someone that looks like they're not really trying,
[28:37.560 -> 28:38.840] they're not really part of the group.
[28:38.840 -> 28:42.800] And I had to take that on board and learn to adapt
[28:42.800 -> 28:47.200] and, you know, open up and accept every day that I could, I could
[28:47.200 -> 28:51.240] speak to my group, I could encourage them and I could, you know, just chat things out
[28:51.240 -> 28:55.800] a bit more. So just not being quite so, I guess, as I say, coming from that individual
[28:55.800 -> 29:01.480] sport, I was still individualized and not really maybe part of the wider team. So it's
[29:01.480 -> 29:04.160] hard to change these things, but I knew I needed to do it.
[29:04.160 -> 29:05.320] It's a good point that Damien,
[29:05.320 -> 29:06.920] I think for anyone listening to this,
[29:06.920 -> 29:08.120] who are not in elite sport,
[29:08.120 -> 29:09.880] but who work in a team environment,
[29:09.880 -> 29:12.840] and that pretty much captures almost everyone
[29:12.840 -> 29:13.680] that would listen to this,
[29:13.680 -> 29:16.040] whether it's a family environment or an office environment,
[29:16.040 -> 29:18.080] or going out for a drink with your mates
[29:18.080 -> 29:19.440] kind of environment.
[29:19.440 -> 29:21.600] So often we think as long as we're doing
[29:21.600 -> 29:23.640] what we know is the right thing, that's enough.
[29:23.640 -> 29:27.440] But that is a really good example there from Neil, that in this world to really
[29:27.440 -> 29:32.400] get to the absolute top where you want to go, it's not just going there, it's
[29:32.400 -> 29:36.520] taking people on the journey with you. Yeah, very much and that's why I think
[29:36.520 -> 29:40.520] what Neil's describing is again something that we've seen as a regular
[29:40.520 -> 29:46.160] theme of feedback with people on behavi behaviors, not on personality. So challenge
[29:46.160 -> 29:50.840] somebody about how they appear. So like Neil's describing, you're challenging, you appear
[29:50.840 -> 29:56.480] to not be trying, you appear to be quite dour. That's a behavior that he can either explain
[29:56.480 -> 30:01.040] or he can change, but you're not attacking you as a person and saying that you're miserable
[30:01.040 -> 30:07.640] or, or, or you, you're not committed, which leaves you space to, again, not feel stuck.
[30:07.640 -> 30:08.520] Is that right, Neil?
[30:08.520 -> 30:10.480] Yeah, and to be honest, sometimes I am miserable,
[30:10.480 -> 30:12.000] so maybe that is a fair point.
[30:12.000 -> 30:16.480] But yeah, of course, I think that has to be the thing,
[30:16.480 -> 30:18.920] that it's easy when you get in these heated discussions
[30:18.920 -> 30:22.960] to sometimes maybe pick up on that kind of aspect.
[30:22.960 -> 30:25.660] But if you are talking about how you appear then yes fair enough
[30:25.660 -> 30:28.880] You know, I I'm well aware that I don't always appear as
[30:29.480 -> 30:31.520] Mr. Positive or anything
[30:31.520 -> 30:37.780] But if you if I explain to you and you understand that you are getting everything from me then I think that changes
[30:38.280 -> 30:43.300] So and yeah when we come to compete my partner Matt does see that emotion kind of
[30:43.880 -> 30:48.360] Bringing itself out on race day like I say. So we're in a good place now. And so I'm
[30:48.360 -> 30:50.760] sure we'll have more of those frank discussions in time as well.
[30:50.840 -> 30:54.840] I'm interested in exploring something that we haven't touched on yet, Neil,
[30:54.880 -> 31:01.400] which is the first part of your career as a sprinter, as opposed to a cyclist.
[31:01.800 -> 31:06.240] Now, there's not many that make that transition as you've done. So would you
[31:06.240 -> 31:11.680] explain a little bit about the rationale of what led you to be successful in one endeavour
[31:11.680 -> 31:14.440] and then decide to do something completely different?
[31:14.440 -> 31:19.520] Yeah, in terms of my athletics career, I mean, I don't consider it particularly successful
[31:19.520 -> 31:31.000] looking back. It was mediocre. I was a one and two meter runner and I ultimately I made it to the Beijing Games in 2008 and I finished ninth in both my events, top eight making the final.
[31:31.000 -> 31:38.000] And, you know, that was my first experience of a Games and I absolutely fell in love with the Paralympics at that point.
[31:38.000 -> 31:45.240] It's just, I hadn't really realized how big it was. I mean, the TV coverage wasn't great even back then and obviously it's, you
[31:45.240 -> 31:50.760] know, it's completely rocketed since. So, kind of walking into the village and looking
[31:50.760 -> 31:55.320] around at this incredibly diverse place where you've got people from all across the globe,
[31:55.320 -> 32:00.080] all with different disabilities, like, it's absolutely the most diverse place on earth,
[32:00.080 -> 32:06.480] the athletes village at the Paralympics. And I just fell in love with it. And I knew London was four years away.
[32:06.480 -> 32:10.280] And that thought of, you know, competing at home games,
[32:10.280 -> 32:12.000] I thought not many people get that opportunity.
[32:12.000 -> 32:13.560] And, you know, I love the games now,
[32:13.560 -> 32:15.320] I just want to be there.
[32:15.320 -> 32:17.160] And I decided at that point,
[32:17.160 -> 32:19.760] I need to make progress because, you know,
[32:19.760 -> 32:21.200] I'm not good enough at the minute,
[32:21.200 -> 32:22.920] coming ninth in the world at this stage,
[32:22.920 -> 32:28.400] and it's four years away, and I'm struggling to improve, it's not a good place to be. But I
[32:28.400 -> 32:31.280] committed that I was going to make changes, I was going to make progress and
[32:31.280 -> 32:35.000] then came back from Beijing and two weeks later I got a phone call from my
[32:35.000 -> 32:38.720] manager at UK Athletics and she said we don't think you've got the potential to
[32:38.720 -> 32:42.360] make it to London, your contract's terminated with immediate effect and
[32:42.360 -> 32:46.320] just like that my dream was done. That was it, gone.
[32:46.320 -> 32:48.080] And how old were you at this stage, Neil?
[32:48.080 -> 32:51.520] So that was 2008, so I would have been 24.
[32:52.360 -> 32:54.040] So, you know, I'm not particularly young
[32:54.040 -> 32:57.440] in a sporting sense, but I kind of,
[32:58.400 -> 33:01.360] I think mentally I was still quite juvenile at that point
[33:01.360 -> 33:03.320] and hadn't really grown.
[33:04.480 -> 33:05.840] And it was a tough few months if
[33:05.840 -> 33:11.800] I'm honest where I I couldn't really see a way out. I ended up, you know, I was
[33:11.800 -> 33:14.540] living at home, my parents kind of encouraged me to start applying for jobs
[33:14.540 -> 33:17.880] so I started applying for all kind of work and I couldn't get a job at all
[33:17.880 -> 33:22.360] even though I had a degree from the University of Aberdeen, you know, I was a
[33:22.360 -> 33:25.280] graduate, a Paralympian, I thought I had it
[33:25.280 -> 33:28.680] all but I just couldn't get a job. I was being turned away and I was kind of
[33:28.680 -> 33:32.560] aware that I think my disability was having a negative impact as well at that
[33:32.560 -> 33:36.440] point where a lot of people were kind of seemed questioning whether I'd be able
[33:36.440 -> 33:37.800] to do the job.
[33:37.800 -> 33:43.760] As a person with a very deep voice I'm hired all the time for
[33:43.760 -> 33:45.200] advertising campaigns but a deep voice doesn't sell voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns.
[33:45.200 -> 33:50.960] But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B, and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either.
[33:50.960 -> 33:54.800] That's why if you're a B2B marketer, you should use LinkedIn ads.
[33:54.800 -> 33:59.920] LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional audience.
[33:59.920 -> 34:04.080] That's right, over 70 million decision makers all in one place.
[34:04.080 -> 34:06.860] All the bigwigs and mediumwigs.
[34:06.860 -> 34:09.580] Also smallwigs who are on the path to becoming bigwigs.
[34:09.580 -> 34:11.800] Okay, that's enough about wigs.
[34:11.800 -> 34:16.240] LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[34:16.240 -> 34:21.400] So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
[34:21.400 -> 34:22.840] voice in the world?
[34:22.840 -> 34:24.980] Yes, yes it does.
[34:24.980 -> 34:27.000] Get started today and see why LinkedIn
[34:27.000 -> 34:29.440] is the place to be, to be.
[34:29.440 -> 34:32.720] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
[34:32.720 -> 34:35.880] Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit.
[34:35.880 -> 34:38.160] That's linkedin.com slash results.
[34:38.160 -> 34:39.560] Terms and conditions apply.
[34:42.520 -> 34:44.680] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses
[34:44.680 -> 34:46.560] that are doing things a better way so you
[34:46.560 -> 34:51.600] can live a better life and that's why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share.
[34:51.600 -> 34:56.280] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their
[34:56.280 -> 34:59.640] phone plans online and passes those savings to you.
[34:59.640 -> 35:03.880] And for a limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new customer offer
[35:03.880 -> 35:09.920] that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month when you purchase a 3 month plan.
[35:09.920 -> 35:16.280] That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month.
[35:16.280 -> 35:21.120] And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison to providers
[35:21.120 -> 35:24.040] that we've worked with before is incredible.
[35:24.040 -> 35:26.320] Mint Mobile is here to rescue you
[35:26.320 -> 35:29.200] with premium wireless plans for 15 bucks a month.
[35:29.200 -> 35:31.940] So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans,
[35:31.940 -> 35:33.640] those jaw-dropping monthly bills,
[35:33.640 -> 35:35.600] those unexpected overages,
[35:35.600 -> 35:38.100] because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text
[35:38.100 -> 35:39.520] and high-speed data
[35:39.520 -> 35:42.680] delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.
[35:42.680 -> 35:45.720] Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan, bring your
[35:45.720 -> 35:48.840] phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[35:48.840 -> 35:53.460] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless
[35:53.460 -> 35:59.440] service for just $15 a month. To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited
[35:59.440 -> 36:08.720] wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com.hpp. That's mintmobile.com slash HPP that's mintmobile.com slash HPP. Cut
[36:08.720 -> 36:15.160] your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash HPP. Additional taxes,
[36:15.160 -> 36:21.440] fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Do you think you were also putting out
[36:21.440 -> 36:26.720] a feeling of this isn't what you really want to be doing? Do you think there was something radiating off you?
[36:26.720 -> 36:31.920] Oh, almost certainly, to be honest, Jake. I mean, I wasn't in a good place anyway, and
[36:32.720 -> 36:37.360] I still had hopes of making it back into sports. So I don't think I was ever approaching any of
[36:37.360 -> 36:41.760] these jobs with the idea of this is what I want to do. It was a case of this might pay the bills.
[36:42.720 -> 36:45.320] But yeah, I couldn't get anything. So I just went down
[36:45.320 -> 36:50.880] the job center and I was I was signing on. So a year that promised so much going to Paralympics
[36:50.880 -> 36:56.960] ended with me unemployed and, you know, putting on weight and with no hope really. So it was
[36:56.960 -> 37:01.560] a real, real low point. And I kind of went through that grieving process almost, as I
[37:01.560 -> 37:05.520] said before, and I guess I worked my way through that and started to
[37:05.520 -> 37:09.600] take, as you spoke before, responsibility for it myself. Initially, I'd been blaming
[37:09.600 -> 37:13.720] everyone else that they hadn't seen enough potential in me, they hadn't got the most
[37:13.720 -> 37:18.960] out of me, it was their fault I'd underperformed. And I had to work all through that and realise
[37:18.960 -> 37:27.760] that actually, no, this is on you. And I woke up and thought one day, London 2012, that's your dream.
[37:27.760 -> 37:30.480] So I decided to research every sport
[37:30.480 -> 37:32.200] for visually impaired people at the games
[37:32.200 -> 37:34.640] and decided I was gonna try every single one of them
[37:34.640 -> 37:36.600] till I found one I might be good enough at
[37:36.600 -> 37:40.040] that I'd have a chance of making it onto the field of play
[37:40.040 -> 37:42.100] or onto the start line.
[37:42.100 -> 37:43.720] And just decided that,
[37:44.640 -> 37:46.000] I couldn't really go any lower than
[37:46.000 -> 37:47.920] where I was, so I might as well give it a go.
[37:47.920 -> 37:50.160] And I realized that athletics wasn't going to happen for me.
[37:50.160 -> 37:52.080] I wasn't making progress.
[37:52.080 -> 37:56.880] So I decided to try cycling, which was a sport that I'd always loved.
[37:56.880 -> 38:02.440] And they'd obviously just had incredible success with Chris Hoy and others in Beijing.
[38:02.440 -> 38:05.120] So you know, it's very much at the forefront in the media at the time.
[38:06.240 -> 38:13.040] And because I was in such a low point, I didn't approach GB Paracycling team directly and say,
[38:13.040 -> 38:17.760] you know, I'm a former athlete, can I come and have a go? I didn't feel like I had earned that
[38:17.760 -> 38:23.120] right by any means. So I went along for what's known as a taster session at the Velodrome in
[38:23.120 -> 38:26.360] Manchester. Didn't tell them I couldn't see very well
[38:26.360 -> 38:29.340] and got on a solo bike and rode around the track
[38:29.340 -> 38:30.840] just to see if I enjoyed it.
[38:30.840 -> 38:32.440] And fortunately I didn't crash,
[38:32.440 -> 38:34.120] I didn't crash into anyone else.
[38:34.120 -> 38:37.560] And yeah, it was by pure chance.
[38:37.560 -> 38:40.720] I had a bag with Beijing 2008 on my back,
[38:40.720 -> 38:43.120] you know, I was still living on past glories,
[38:43.120 -> 38:45.080] and someone spotted it and he kind of called me over
[38:45.080 -> 38:46.240] and got chatting to me.
[38:46.240 -> 38:48.320] And it turned out it was this guy who was warming up
[38:48.320 -> 38:51.240] for a GB session that was on afterwards.
[38:51.240 -> 38:53.360] Guy called Craig McLean, he told me he'd been
[38:53.360 -> 38:57.700] a silver medalist at the Sydney 2000 Games,
[38:57.700 -> 39:00.740] and he'd just switched over from the Olympic team
[39:00.740 -> 39:02.520] to the Paralympic team, and he was what is known
[39:02.520 -> 39:09.760] as a pilot, and he was looking for a visually impaired athlete to ride on the back of the tandem with him. And I said, well, yeah,
[39:09.760 -> 39:14.800] I might know a guy who might be interested. And essentially went from there of just being in the
[39:14.800 -> 39:21.520] right place at the right time led to an opportunity, which ultimately has led to over a decade of
[39:21.520 -> 39:25.400] success in cycling. Wow, what a seminal moment, isn't it brilliant?
[39:25.400 -> 39:29.520] I wonder whether that gives you a sort of sense of serenity
[39:29.520 -> 39:31.160] when you're on the start line
[39:31.160 -> 39:32.480] or when big things are happening
[39:32.480 -> 39:34.400] and when you can perhaps feel slightly overwhelmed
[39:34.400 -> 39:37.560] by the training schedule or the crowd or everything else
[39:37.560 -> 39:39.480] that the whole reason you're there
[39:39.480 -> 39:42.360] is because that one very serendipitous moment
[39:42.360 -> 39:43.320] happened for you.
[39:43.320 -> 39:45.080] Yeah, I think you're right, actually.
[39:45.080 -> 39:46.400] I never really considered that,
[39:46.400 -> 39:50.400] but eco I had been through so many years in sport
[39:50.400 -> 39:52.880] where I was never successful as well.
[39:52.880 -> 39:55.520] And I was just grafted away, never really getting anywhere.
[39:55.520 -> 39:57.760] And in cycling hasn't always been easy
[39:57.760 -> 39:58.960] and there've been defeats as well,
[39:58.960 -> 40:01.840] but I spent a lot of time, you know,
[40:01.840 -> 40:03.940] achieving winning medals and things.
[40:03.940 -> 40:06.000] And I guess I just look back and
[40:06.000 -> 40:10.240] although I, I work hard now, I look back at those times when I was working as hard in
[40:10.240 -> 40:15.840] athletics and getting nowhere and then ultimately ending up at the job center. So it's just
[40:15.840 -> 40:21.960] it's nice to feel that I can reward and equally know that by putting myself out there and
[40:21.960 -> 40:25.960] you know, I was someone who was incredibly shy, never
[40:25.960 -> 40:28.800] put myself out there at all and even the thought of making a phone call was
[40:28.800 -> 40:34.000] something that terrified me and it still does actually but the fact I on that day
[40:34.000 -> 40:38.320] picked up the phone to book a session at Manchester which I was living in
[40:38.320 -> 40:42.080] Aberdeen at the time it was a seven and a half hour train journey to get there
[40:42.080 -> 40:45.200] had to stay overnight and come back. It was this huge commitment,
[40:45.200 -> 40:46.920] which was so out of character for me,
[40:46.920 -> 40:49.440] but there was some reason I felt the need to do it.
[40:49.440 -> 40:51.800] And just to see that reward,
[40:51.800 -> 40:53.280] something I guess has always stuck with me,
[40:53.280 -> 40:55.720] that if you really put yourself in uncomfortable situations,
[40:55.720 -> 40:58.080] then good things can actually come out of it.
[40:58.080 -> 41:00.240] I can't let you just move on, sorry, Damien,
[41:00.240 -> 41:03.080] without focusing on the fact that you're a multiple gold
[41:03.080 -> 41:04.920] medal winning athlete, and you just said,
[41:04.920 -> 41:06.600] you find it difficult to pick up the phone sometimes.
[41:06.600 -> 41:08.600] Yeah, genuinely, it's a small thing.
[41:08.600 -> 41:11.120] I don't know how, how do you square that away?
[41:11.120 -> 41:12.320] What worries you about that?
[41:12.320 -> 41:16.120] I mean, I would rather pick up the phone than try and win a gold at the Paralympics, by
[41:16.120 -> 41:17.120] the way.
[41:17.120 -> 41:21.860] Yeah, a lot of people say that, but genuinely, even it's the small details that get me.
[41:21.860 -> 41:26.140] So the thought of like, getting a train and to be at a meeting at a certain time,
[41:26.140 -> 41:27.660] that really stresses me out.
[41:27.660 -> 41:29.660] Whereas those big things, I don't know,
[41:29.660 -> 41:31.860] I can just seem to cope with it better.
[41:31.860 -> 41:36.180] That I guess I've got time to compute and break it all down.
[41:36.180 -> 41:39.580] But, you know, almost facing this huge adversity,
[41:39.580 -> 41:41.180] something you can kind of just get your head down
[41:41.180 -> 41:42.020] and get on with.
[41:42.020 -> 41:43.780] Whereas those little stressors day to day,
[41:43.780 -> 41:45.340] just things that niggle at
[41:45.340 -> 41:48.700] me and get me all the time. So I don't know, I just I just see
[41:48.700 -> 41:52.260] them very differently. Maybe, maybe that's an offshoot of, you
[41:52.260 -> 41:54.240] know, growing up with this disability, I don't know, or
[41:54.240 -> 41:58.260] maybe it's just me. But yeah, I take a big challenge any day of
[41:58.260 -> 41:58.660] the week.
[41:59.540 -> 42:02.180] But I'm actually so pleased you've said that because I I
[42:02.180 -> 42:04.720] have friends who are very similar. And one of them has
[42:04.720 -> 42:05.320] exactly that
[42:05.320 -> 42:09.000] you cannot get hold of her on the phone because it worries her so much talking on the phone and
[42:09.360 -> 42:15.420] There are big things that those friends dream of doing and should be doing that they don't do because they say well
[42:15.420 -> 42:19.120] I can't even answer the phone. So how can I go and do this do that?
[42:19.120 -> 42:28.800] So I think it's brilliant for people to hear this right who might be similar to you struggling with little things, assuming if you struggle with the little things, you can never do the big things.
[42:28.800 -> 42:32.480] But it's a much better mindset to think, yeah, I struggle with the little things, but the
[42:32.480 -> 42:35.840] big things can still be done. And that is a really powerful message, I think, from you,
[42:35.840 -> 42:36.840] Neil.
[42:36.840 -> 42:40.800] Yeah, I think as well, everyone struggles with the big things. So I almost accept that
[42:40.800 -> 42:45.400] everyone else talks about them being hard and big and scary, so I don't feel bad
[42:45.400 -> 42:47.660] about the fact that I'm nervous about a big race.
[42:47.660 -> 42:49.480] I do get stressed, I still get really nervous
[42:49.480 -> 42:51.200] on the start line like anyone does, I think,
[42:51.200 -> 42:55.040] but that's expected of you, I think, whereas, yeah,
[42:55.040 -> 42:56.880] I mean, if I tell people now that I still hate
[42:56.880 -> 42:58.920] making phone calls, then most of them will probably
[42:58.920 -> 43:02.480] laugh at me for that, but, so I guess, yeah,
[43:02.480 -> 43:06.680] possibly it's that acceptance that it's all right to be stressed over a
[43:06.680 -> 43:07.680] big occasion.
[43:07.680 -> 43:11.840] So I definitely encourage people to get out and take on the world.
[43:11.840 -> 43:16.920] These big goals are the ones that seem huge and scary, but I always find just breaking
[43:16.920 -> 43:21.120] things down into what I need to do every day just to make that little bit of improvement
[43:21.120 -> 43:25.280] that will lead me to that big end goal just makes it almost
[43:25.280 -> 43:29.560] an easy journey that you're just going through the steps that you've already got out there.
[43:29.560 -> 43:33.360] That's been the way my cycling career has been probably for the past, certainly, four
[43:33.360 -> 43:34.360] or five years anyway.
[43:34.360 -> 43:37.280] Steve McLaughlin So can I pick up on that thing then, Neil?
[43:37.280 -> 43:41.960] Because given your journey and the story you've described there about coming down from Aberdeen
[43:41.960 -> 43:45.120] and almost taking a chance on yourself in a different sport is incredible. yno am dod allan o Aberdeen a gwneud y cyfle ar eich hun mewn sport gwahanol
[43:52.480 -> 43:59.440] yw anhygoel, felly pan dywedoddwch eich cyfle ar y stage y gwnaethoch chi'n amlwg, sut ydych chi'n ymwneud â bod yn ddigon hyfforddiad ag yna a chael rhywbeth eraill i'w wneud,
[43:59.440 -> 44:04.640] oherwydd fel y mae Jake yn ysgrifennu yn y cyflwyniad, beth sy'n anhygoel arnoch chi yw'r cydweithredol
[44:04.640 -> 44:09.680] a'r ddiddorol o ddod yn ôl a'i wneud arnoch chi, ac arnoch chi'n ysgrifennu rhywbeth Like Jake mentioned in the introduction, what's incredible about you is the consistency and the relentlessness of coming back and doing it again and again and again. Would you explain something
[44:09.680 -> 44:15.680] about that, because that's a different mindset again? One of the things I really realised is
[44:15.680 -> 44:22.480] in order to make it to the top, I had to have a big target. And as I said, that was London 2012
[44:22.480 -> 44:25.640] for me, for so long, was in my head. So when I was, that was London 2012 for me, for so long was in my head. So
[44:25.640 -> 44:29.600] when I was in training sessions and cycling starting out, I mean, it was really hard transitioning
[44:29.600 -> 44:35.080] sports initially, but I was finding the training tough. I just keep saying to myself, London
[44:35.080 -> 44:41.760] 2012, London 2012. I'd remind myself constantly. The problem came when I got to London 2012
[44:41.760 -> 44:48.560] and I won a gold medal. And then suddenly that big goal's gone.
[44:48.560 -> 44:53.520] You're a Paralympic champion, that's great, but that whole what's next thing hit me.
[44:53.520 -> 45:00.680] And I did take some time off of cycling at that point just to reflect a bit and realize
[45:00.680 -> 45:02.440] there were these targets I still had.
[45:02.440 -> 45:05.400] So I wanted to take the sport onto new levels.
[45:05.400 -> 45:09.120] And particularly, I realized that I
[45:09.120 -> 45:13.160] wanted to show that people with disabilities
[45:13.160 -> 45:17.200] were capable of performing as well as people who are
[45:17.200 -> 45:19.160] considered fully able-bodied.
[45:19.160 -> 45:21.720] And I decided that this was something I had to do,
[45:21.720 -> 45:26.640] was take our event onto levels that were at least comparable,
[45:26.640 -> 45:29.300] if not better than what the able-bodied Olympic
[45:29.300 -> 45:31.100] counterparts were doing.
[45:31.100 -> 45:32.940] And that became my big target.
[45:34.160 -> 45:37.180] And that was a big old journey.
[45:37.180 -> 45:40.340] From where I initially broke the world record on my event,
[45:40.340 -> 45:44.980] we clocked a time of just over 62 seconds,
[45:44.980 -> 45:46.840] that's for a one kilometer.
[45:46.840 -> 45:50.400] And the able-bodied guys were breaking the minute barrier,
[45:50.400 -> 45:53.440] so it was a couple of seconds, which is huge in that kind of timescale,
[45:53.440 -> 45:55.440] but that became my goal.
[45:55.440 -> 45:57.440] And I knew it wasn't something I was going to do
[45:57.440 -> 45:59.720] within the space of a couple of weeks or a few months,
[45:59.720 -> 46:01.720] this was going to be years and years of work.
[46:02.480 -> 46:08.520] And ultimately, that's something that in 2018 at the Commonwealth Games, Matt and I managed
[46:08.520 -> 46:15.280] to achieve when we broke the world record at 50, well, at that point it was, just before
[46:15.280 -> 46:17.480] I knew it, it was 59.4 seconds.
[46:17.480 -> 46:23.720] And then a year later, we're at 59.2, which is the fastest ever kilometer by any bike
[46:23.720 -> 46:24.720] at sea level.
[46:24.720 -> 46:25.000] Now, we ride in a tandem and it's a bit different to solo bikes. which is the fastest ever kilometer by any bike at sea level.
[46:25.000 -> 46:27.600] Now we ride in a tandem and it's a bit different to solo bikes.
[46:27.600 -> 46:31.700] It's not directly comparable, but it is very, very similar to the times that we seem to do.
[46:31.700 -> 46:35.800] So the fact we've actually gone out there and gone the quickest that anyone's gone
[46:35.800 -> 46:39.400] has really been that target I was aiming for and to achieve that was just incredible.
[46:39.400 -> 46:44.100] It's going to show that Paris Sport is, you know, all about elite performance.
[46:44.100 -> 46:48.000] It's not about these people who are almost out for a day out,
[46:48.000 -> 46:49.720] who have just overcome adversity.
[46:49.720 -> 46:51.000] It's not like that at all.
[46:51.000 -> 46:54.800] It's, you have to be absolutely 100% committed to this.
[46:54.800 -> 46:57.760] And it's amazing what many of them are doing.
[46:57.760 -> 47:00.320] And I'm so proud that we were able to do that as well.
[47:00.320 -> 47:03.480] See, what I find incredible is that mindset
[47:03.480 -> 47:06.160] to not only then just think about achieving a goal,
[47:06.160 -> 47:11.400] but to go on and change your sport in many ways, change the perception of it.
[47:11.400 -> 47:16.680] Which leads me to the obvious question of when you're physically unable to continue
[47:16.680 -> 47:20.760] pushing these boundaries, what are you going to apply that same thinking to next then?
[47:20.760 -> 47:32.840] It's a really good question. I've had to reflect on that a little bit, particularly after the Paralympics in 2016 in Rio. It was a bit of an eye-opening moment
[47:32.840 -> 47:37.920] for me there where I went into that event as massive, massive favourite myself. It was
[47:37.920 -> 47:42.680] Pete Mitchell I was riding with up to there. We'd gone undefeated for four years since
[47:42.680 -> 47:45.680] the London race. We'd gone undefeated in international competition.
[47:45.680 -> 47:47.160] It was an incredible run.
[47:48.720 -> 47:50.720] But we went there as overwhelming favorites
[47:50.720 -> 47:53.280] and sadly came away with the silver.
[47:53.280 -> 47:55.800] Had a team from the Netherlands pipped us on the day
[47:55.800 -> 47:58.160] with an incredible performance.
[47:58.160 -> 48:00.820] And I'd won a silver medal at the Paralympic Games,
[48:00.820 -> 48:04.280] but for me it was this huge, absolute failure.
[48:04.280 -> 48:05.760] And it was absolutely devastating.
[48:05.760 -> 48:10.520] And, you know, just looked on that silver as just being essentially dirt.
[48:10.520 -> 48:12.080] It was nothing to me at that time.
[48:13.320 -> 48:17.280] I guess I reflected at that point where I thought maybe this is the start of the end
[48:17.280 -> 48:22.000] of my career coming where maybe I needed to look elsewhere and realise I didn't have
[48:22.000 -> 48:25.140] another source of income or didn't really know who I was outside of sport
[48:25.140 -> 48:26.880] Either, you know, I dedicated
[48:26.880 -> 48:30.860] So much of my life to sport. I didn't feel like I had anything else to offer the world
[48:31.660 -> 48:34.720] Again, taking that time to reflect and looking back on my career
[48:34.720 -> 48:39.400] I realized that I'd actually learned a lot of things being involved in elite sport
[48:39.400 -> 48:41.680] many people do where I learned how to
[48:42.240 -> 48:50.280] Become the best in the world at something how to strategize to get there and then to stay there for a number of years. I learned, as
[48:50.280 -> 48:55.200] we spoke about already, how to deal like under extreme pressure of performing, you
[48:55.200 -> 48:58.840] know, at that big race when it really counts. I'd learned that kind of mindset
[48:58.840 -> 49:02.200] of an athlete where you perform day in day out regardless of how you're
[49:02.200 -> 49:08.280] feeling. And I wondered how I could kind of apply that to other areas and that's when I realized that as you
[49:08.280 -> 49:11.720] guys are looking as well that within the business world, within whatever anyone's
[49:11.720 -> 49:15.240] doing to be honest, these lessons are so important about how you get the most out
[49:15.240 -> 49:20.440] of yourself. So now the idea that I could potentially bring this sort of method
[49:20.440 -> 49:24.040] that I put together to the world of business, perhaps to other sporting teams
[49:24.040 -> 49:26.200] and kind of share my knowledge that I've gained
[49:26.200 -> 49:27.600] over the years really excites me.
[49:27.600 -> 49:31.400] That idea of still being at the cutting edge of performance,
[49:31.400 -> 49:32.560] that's where I want to be.
[49:32.560 -> 49:34.200] So that's what I want to do.
[49:34.200 -> 49:38.080] I want to help others achieve their full potential.
[49:38.080 -> 49:40.760] Because I think often the people with the most talent
[49:40.760 -> 49:42.440] don't reach the top necessarily,
[49:42.440 -> 49:43.440] because they don't have the tools
[49:43.440 -> 49:44.760] at their disposal to get there.
[49:44.760 -> 49:46.000] And that's something that's that's always
[49:46.000 -> 49:50.040] irritated me so that's that's my goal really is to help those with the most
[49:50.040 -> 49:55.520] talent become the best at what they do. Love it, so good. Neil we've reached the
[49:55.520 -> 49:59.240] point of our quickfire questions. So I hope you're ready for these. We
[49:59.240 -> 50:04.080] don't tend to get quickfire answers though do we Damien? Very rarely. Right so
[50:04.080 -> 50:09.000] let's start then with something which is very close to Damien's heart, non-negotiable behaviours.
[50:09.000 -> 50:15.000] What are the three non-negotiable behaviours that you and everyone around you has to buy into?
[50:15.000 -> 50:19.000] Punctuality is one. I can't stand lateness.
[50:19.000 -> 50:28.720] Grit, that ability to kind of dig in, day in, day day out no matter what. And I think the ability to take a step back and look at things logically kind of
[50:28.720 -> 50:32.080] gain perspective. Yeah, I'd say those three.
[50:32.120 -> 50:35.040] What advice would you give a teenage Neil just starting out?
[50:35.920 -> 50:39.880] Accept your disability, accept who you are. And that was such a
[50:39.880 -> 50:43.360] long learning curve for me. And something I'm still almost
[50:43.360 -> 50:47.920] coming to terms with, like, for instance, I wouldn't, I'm someone with a visual impairment, I wouldn't use a
[50:47.920 -> 50:51.540] white cane or anything for many years because that made me look obviously
[50:51.540 -> 50:57.220] disabled and I kind of thought it was a weakness to use something like a white
[50:57.220 -> 51:00.380] cane and it wasn't until I started actually using one. It wasn't actually
[51:00.380 -> 51:06.000] until I met my now wife, Laura, who's totally blind. And this is an interesting moment for life,
[51:06.000 -> 51:07.140] I think we could all learn from,
[51:07.140 -> 51:08.560] where she kind of said,
[51:08.560 -> 51:09.400] we started seeing each other,
[51:09.400 -> 51:10.240] and she said to me,
[51:10.240 -> 51:14.000] oh, do you want to go out to a concert, to a gig?
[51:14.000 -> 51:15.080] And I said, oh, I can't, you know,
[51:15.080 -> 51:16.600] because I can't really see in the dark,
[51:16.600 -> 51:18.520] and it's loud, it's quite disorientating.
[51:18.520 -> 51:20.160] And she said, oh, right,
[51:20.160 -> 51:21.480] because I'm totally blind,
[51:21.480 -> 51:23.640] and I go to gigs all the time.
[51:23.640 -> 51:25.680] So I thought maybe you would.
[51:25.680 -> 51:28.640] And I thought, all right, yeah, that's the kick up the rear
[51:28.640 -> 51:30.520] that we all need.
[51:30.520 -> 51:33.000] And that's when I really started to accept my disability.
[51:33.000 -> 51:35.600] And I started using a white cane to get around,
[51:35.600 -> 51:38.880] just to alert people to the fact that I might not see them
[51:38.880 -> 51:39.920] and I might walk into them.
[51:39.920 -> 51:41.840] And it's been massively empowering.
[51:41.840 -> 51:44.840] And I can't believe how stupid almost I was
[51:44.840 -> 51:45.120] for trying
[51:45.120 -> 51:49.040] to hide something that defines who I am.
[51:49.040 -> 51:52.400] She sounds like a very important part of the story.
[51:52.400 -> 51:53.800] Are you happy?
[51:53.800 -> 51:56.600] That's a good one.
[51:56.600 -> 51:58.360] Yeah, I'm happy.
[51:58.360 -> 51:59.360] I don't know if I'm satisfied.
[51:59.360 -> 52:04.840] Maybe that's a different question, but I still feel like there's a lot I want to achieve,
[52:04.840 -> 52:09.480] but I'm becoming more proud and happy with where I'm at now I think yeah.
[52:09.480 -> 52:13.200] How important is legacy to you? Yeah that's huge I mean we spoke about
[52:13.200 -> 52:19.640] wanting to progress my sport I want to I want to empower people who feel either
[52:19.640 -> 52:23.280] disadvantaged or feel they've you know whether they've got disability that they
[52:23.280 -> 52:29.220] can actually go out there and be what they want to be. If I could leave some sort of impact for others
[52:29.220 -> 52:33.420] in that regard, that would be huge. So yeah, I'd love to leave my sport in a much better
[52:33.420 -> 52:35.380] place and I'd love to help others.
[52:35.380 -> 52:42.140] And finally, your one single lesson for people listening to this, Neil, to live a high performance
[52:42.140 -> 52:43.140] life.
[52:43.140 -> 52:47.040] Yeah, I think it's just that case of making that bit of progress every day.
[52:47.040 -> 52:51.680] I've always prided myself on even those days when I, you know, I don't really fancy it.
[52:52.320 -> 52:55.760] I just, I wake up, I think I could really go for an easy day right now.
[52:55.760 -> 53:01.440] That ability to still just do one thing every day that just takes that little bit step forward
[53:01.440 -> 53:04.880] in your journey is so, so important. So just keep moving forward.
[53:04.880 -> 53:07.280] On behalf of Jake and I, Neil, and all our listeners,
[53:07.280 -> 53:10.800] I think what you've given us today has been gold dust.
[53:10.800 -> 53:15.800] I think the ability to not allow yourself to be framed
[53:15.960 -> 53:18.640] by perceptions or by some of the challenges,
[53:18.640 -> 53:21.520] or as you would describe it as disabilities,
[53:21.520 -> 53:24.880] and instead come to see them as superpowers and strengths
[53:24.880 -> 53:30.720] has been really enlightening for us o ddisabilitiaethau ac yn ystod eu bod yn dod i'w weld fel gryfion a chyflawni, mae wedi bod yn wirioneddol yn anhygoel i ni i gael i ni allu clywed, ac rwy'n gwybod
[53:30.720 -> 53:36.880] bod gan eich record o gyflawni yn ddwy sport, hwyl i'ch
[53:36.880 -> 53:42.000] gyrfa athletig, wedi bod yn ddigon ddysgu, rwy'n credu ei fod yn anhygoel i weld beth bydd y
[53:42.000 -> 53:45.040] nesaf yn ei gyrraedd a sut y gallwch chi gysylltu pobl eraill gyda'r dyluniau a'r technegau it's incredibly exciting to see what the next chapter is going to hold and how you can equip
[53:50.720 -> 53:55.600] other people with the tools and techniques and mental tricks that you've adopted that they can apply in their own lives. So thank you very much. It's been, it's been a real humbling,
[53:55.600 -> 53:58.880] but enlightening experience to sit and chat with you. So thank you very much.
[53:58.880 -> 54:00.400] No, thank you. It was a real pleasure.
[54:04.640 -> 54:10.320] Damien. Jake. What I found really interesting with that chat is that I just assumed that when you're
[54:10.320 -> 54:17.800] a multiple medal winner, multiple world record holder, competed for your country, overcome,
[54:17.800 -> 54:21.960] you know, a really difficult disability and still had a successful life, that you would
[54:21.960 -> 54:24.080] be in a constant place of permanent happiness.
[54:24.080 -> 54:26.000] But that's not, I don't, I get sylwad gyda Neil, yw o?
[54:26.000 -> 54:30.000] Mae'n rhaid iddo ffwrdd o gyd bob dydd, mewn nifer o rhai arall, rwy'n credu.
[54:30.000 -> 54:34.000] Ie, rwy'n credu pa oedd yn wirioneddol ffasynadol yn ein sgwrs gyda Neil oedd
[54:34.000 -> 54:38.000] y byd y mae wedi bod ar y byd ei hun, gyda'i bywyd, gyda'r ffordd rydyn ni'n ei gofyn amdano
[54:38.000 -> 54:42.000] o'i blant, o'i bod yn teimlo'n eithaf stigmatised gan ei ddisgybwyl,
[54:42.000 -> 54:48.000] drwy dod allan o'r ffinalau Paralympaidd
[54:48.000 -> 54:52.000] a'r bod yn rhaid i mi ymuno ar y cyfeillgarwch swydd a ymdrechu ar ei gyd
[54:52.000 -> 54:55.000] i ddod allan i Manchester ac ymdrechu ar y cyclyn.
[54:55.000 -> 54:58.000] Dyma'r ffynon sydd wedi bod yn ymdrechu'n bob amser.
[54:58.000 -> 55:01.000] Rwy'n credu y byddai'n ddiddorol iawn fod,
[55:01.000 -> 55:03.000] o ran pob un o'r cyfnodau hynny,
[55:03.000 -> 55:05.840] pan ddweud ynghylch cyweud o amser i ddweud,
[55:05.840 -> 55:10.480] mae'n bwysig iawn i'w gyrraedd i'w gydnabod y nesaf.
[55:10.480 -> 55:14.400] Ac hefyd y gwybodaeth a ddod o'n i, yw bod yn hapus, ond ddim yn hyfforddi.
[55:14.400 -> 55:17.560] Dyma hefyd ymdrechion, yw'n i?
[55:17.560 -> 55:20.280] Ie, roeddwn i'n clywed gofynion yn y cyfnod o'r cyfrifiad i Neil,
[55:20.280 -> 55:23.040] o'n cyfrifiad a wnaethon ni gydag Sean Wayne,
[55:23.040 -> 55:45.760] y cofwydderwyr yng Nghymru, y syniad hwn o ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod â'r holl ddod we just need to open our mind up and look for opportunities to get ourselves
[55:45.760 -> 55:49.160] unstuck from whatever situation we can sometimes find ourselves in.
[55:49.160 -> 55:50.400] I love it, thanks Damien.
[55:50.400 -> 55:51.600] Great, thanks again Jake.
[55:54.000 -> 55:56.600] Well thanks as always for listening to the High Performance Podcast.
[55:56.600 -> 56:00.400] Don't forget you can find us on YouTube, you can follow us on Instagram,
[56:00.400 -> 56:03.600] you can check out highperformancepodcast.co.uk.
[56:03.600 -> 56:06.040] But Damien, before we say goodbye to people,
[56:06.040 -> 56:07.860] let's just remind them there's one other way
[56:07.860 -> 56:10.560] that they can now absorb the High Performance Podcast.
[56:10.560 -> 56:13.280] Yep, and that's about ordering our fantastic book
[56:13.280 -> 56:15.000] that comes out on the 9th of December.
[56:15.000 -> 56:15.840] Yes!
[56:15.840 -> 56:17.000] Yeah, that enthusiasm there, Jamie.
[56:17.000 -> 56:18.440] Love that, much better,
[56:18.440 -> 56:20.520] much better than at the start of this episode.
[56:20.520 -> 56:22.120] Yeah, Damien's right.
[56:22.120 -> 56:24.160] Right now on Amazon, you can pre-order the book,
[56:24.160 -> 56:29.120] head to our social media accounts to get all the details and swipe ups and links and all that sort of stuff.
[56:29.120 -> 56:33.080] But we are really, really excited to bring you this book. It is everything that we believe
[56:33.080 -> 56:36.960] in everything that we stand for, and we've put our heart and soul into making it something
[56:36.960 -> 56:41.680] special. So we're really excited about that. Thank you for listening. Thank you to the
[56:41.680 -> 56:48.000] whole team. Thank you to Damien for just being the person without whom this podcast wouldn't be possible
[56:48.520 -> 56:54.640] Thank you all so much for listening and we'll see you again soon for another episode of the high performance
[56:54.840 -> 56:56.840] Podcast go and pre-order the book. Bye
[57:01.140 -> 57:03.200] you