E46 - Sol Campbell: The importance of roots and wings

Sol made 646 appearances for five different clubs between 1992 and 2011, as well as playing 73 times for England, taking part in three World Cups and three European Championships.

Sol, who began his professional career with Tottenham, enjoyed his most prosperous seasons with Arsenal after making a free transfer ahead of the 2001-02 season.

At the Gunners, Sol went on to win two league titles and two FA Cups, scored in the 2006 Champions League final and was part of the legendary “Invincibles” team of 2003/4. 

Sol spent three years at Portsmouth, which included captaining the side's win in the 2008 FA Cup final. Since retiring from playing, Sol has managed Macclesfield Town and Southend United.

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**Navigating the High-Performance Mindset: A Conversation with Sol Campbell**

* **High Performance:** A commitment to excellence that requires sacrifice, consistency, and a willingness to push boundaries.

* **Discipline and Motivation:** Sol's upbringing and environment instilled in him a strong sense of discipline and a drive to succeed. He recognized the need to stay focused and avoid distractions to achieve his goals.

* **Balance:** Sol emphasizes the importance of balance between street football, which fostered his creativity and adaptability, and classical training, which provided technical refinement. He believes in preserving one's unique talents while acquiring new skills.

* **Self-Awareness and Observation:** Sol's ability to observe and identify patterns of behavior helps him assess the culture of a team. He looks for signs of politeness, punctuality, and respect, as well as the team's response to challenges.

* **Tripwires:** Sol sets "tripwires" to gauge the commitment and work ethic of his players. He observes their behavior during training sessions, team meetings, and matches to identify those who are truly dedicated to improvement.

* **Adaptability:** Sol's approach to team culture and player development can be applied to various settings, including businesses and organizations. The principles of discipline, observation, and setting clear expectations are universally applicable.

* **Sensitivity and Success:** Sol believes that sensitivity and success can coexist. He encourages leaders to maintain their principles, speak their minds, and allow others to flourish. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity and emotional intelligence in leadership.

* **Overcoming Pressure:** Sol's ability to deal with pressure stems from his unwavering belief in his abilities and his commitment to preparation. He focuses on controlling what he can control and not dwelling on external factors.

* **Mentorship and Legacy:** Sol recognizes the significance of mentorship and passing on knowledge to the next generation. He sees his role as a coach and mentor as an opportunity to inspire and guide young players, helping them reach their full potential.

## **Sol Campbell: The High Performance Podcast**

### **Summary**

Sol Campbell, a former professional footballer who played for five different clubs between 1992 and 2011, shares his insights on leadership, mental health, and diversity in football management.

**Key Points:**

1. **Leadership:**
- As a manager, Sol believes in establishing a positive and open culture within the team. He emphasizes the importance of shaking hands, making eye contact, and having honest conversations with players to create a sense of trust and respect.
- He encourages players to take responsibility for their performance and to compete for their place in the team, fostering a culture of healthy competition and self-improvement.

2. **Mental Health:**
- Sol acknowledges that mental health struggles were not openly discussed during his playing days, but he recognizes the importance of addressing them.
- He emphasizes the need for external support, such as psychologists and sports psychologists, to help players deal with stress, anxiety, and other mental health challenges.
- Sol shares his personal coping mechanism of reminiscing about his humble beginnings in East London to gain perspective and resilience during difficult times.

3. **Diversity in Football Management:**
- Sol expresses his frustration with the lack of diversity among managers in football, particularly the underrepresentation of black managers.
- He believes that unconscious bias and stereotypes may be preventing talented black individuals from getting opportunities in management.
- Sol calls for a change in mindset among fans, club owners, and the media to embrace diversity and recognize the potential of black managers.
- He emphasizes the need for systemic changes, including increased representation in coaching and leadership positions, to create a more inclusive environment in football.

**Overall Message:**

Sol Campbell advocates for a leadership style that prioritizes honesty, communication, and respect, while also recognizing the importance of addressing mental health issues and promoting diversity in football management. He challenges the existing barriers and calls for a more inclusive and progressive approach to the sport.

# Sol Campbell: High Performance Podcast Episode Summary

### Introduction

* Sol Campbell, a former English footballer, made 646 appearances for five different clubs and played in three World Cups and three European Championships.
* Campbell is widely regarded as one of the best defenders of his generation.
* He won two Premier League titles and two FA Cups with Arsenal, and was part of the club's legendary "Invincibles" team of 2003-04.
* Campbell also had successful spells at Tottenham Hotspur and Portsmouth, and captained the latter to victory in the 2008 FA Cup final.
* Since retiring from playing, Campbell has managed Macclesfield Town and Southend United.

### Key Insights and Discussion Points

* Campbell discussed the challenges of being a black manager in football, and the unconscious bias that exists in the game.
* He believes that there is a lack of opportunities for black managers, and that they are often overlooked for jobs in favor of white candidates.
* Campbell also spoke about the importance of passion and commitment in football, and how these qualities can help players and managers to achieve success.
* He believes that a manager's legacy is all about leaving a positive mark for the future, and inspiring others to follow in their footsteps.
* Campbell also highlighted the importance of concentration and focus in football, and how these qualities can help players to perform at their best.

### Memorable Quotes

* "I think you want to be a custodian, you know, you want to come into a club, and when you leave, it's in a better position. And that's me, you know, that's me. I want to do a hard day's work and make sure people know that. I want people around me working as hard as me and that's what I mean. You want a custodian, you want to leave a club that is in a better position than when you got in through the door." - Sol Campbell

* "It's passion, I want to kind of, you know, it's a journey, it's tough, but I'm willing to take this journey. I'm ready. But it's gonna come down to if someone believes I'm ready." - Sol Campbell

* "Concentration. Don't get bored of the ability to concentrate. So many people lose concentration in the game, so concentration." - Sol Campbell

### Overall Message and Takeaway

Sol Campbell is a passionate and experienced football manager who is eager to get back into the game. He believes that he has the skills and knowledge to be successful, but he is frustrated by the lack of opportunities for black managers in football. Campbell is determined to overcome these challenges and to prove that he is one of the best managers in the world.

**The High Performance Podcast: Sol Campbell on Overcoming Adversity and Achieving Success**

In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, host Jake Humphrey and expert Damien Hughes engage in a thought-provoking conversation with former Arsenal and England defender Sol Campbell. The discussion delves into the idea of "sustainable success," emphasizing the significance of cherishing the journey rather than solely focusing on the end goal.

Campbell's remarkable career, marked by numerous achievements and setbacks, serves as a testament to this philosophy. He shares his insights on the importance of embracing challenges and failures as opportunities for growth and self-discovery.

The podcast explores the concept of "roots," highlighting the significance of understanding one's strengths, weaknesses, and motivations. Campbell stresses the need for individuals to cultivate a strong sense of self-esteem and resilience to navigate the inevitable obstacles that arise in the pursuit of success.

The conversation touches upon Campbell's own experiences with adversity, including the loss of his wife and the challenges of managing his football career. He emphasizes the importance of seeking support from mentors, coaches, and loved ones during difficult times.

The podcast also delves into the role of failure in shaping success. Campbell believes that setbacks are essential for personal and professional growth. He encourages listeners to embrace failure as a learning opportunity and to use it as a catalyst for improvement.

The discussion underscores the importance of setting realistic goals and celebrating small victories along the way. Campbell emphasizes the significance of recognizing and acknowledging progress, no matter how incremental, as a means of staying motivated and maintaining a positive mindset.

The podcast concludes with Campbell reflecting on his career and sharing his advice for aspiring athletes and individuals seeking to achieve success in their chosen fields. He emphasizes the importance of hard work, dedication, and perseverance, while also acknowledging the role of luck and timing.

Overall, this episode of the High Performance Podcast offers valuable insights into the mindset and strategies of a successful athlete and provides practical advice for individuals seeking to overcome adversity and achieve their goals.

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[03:18.880 -> 03:22.160] I'm really excited for you to hear this episode. I just want to call out a few people that
[03:22.160 -> 03:29.040] have sent us lovely messages this week. Steve Frey said, I've just listened to Joe Malone. So powerful. You should be
[03:29.040 -> 03:32.720] incredibly proud of your first year. You've produced something very authentic. Keep up
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[03:37.640 -> 03:41.280] in the glass. If you don't know about the poem, the man in the glass, just type it into
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[03:46.100 -> 03:51.000] the sense or sales or stores, but the real insights we needed to know for
[03:51.000 -> 03:51.900] high performance.
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[04:01.700 -> 04:07.400] You can find us as well on Instagram at high Performance, but regardless of where you get your inspiration
[04:07.400 -> 04:08.840] from the High Performance podcast,
[04:08.840 -> 04:12.040] I thank you so much for joining us for another episode.
[04:12.040 -> 04:13.440] Let's get straight into it.
[04:13.440 -> 04:17.040] It's time for this week's High Performance podcast.
[04:17.040 -> 04:22.040] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance,
[04:22.800 -> 04:30.000] delving into the minds of some of the most successful artists, visionaries, entrepreneurs and sports stars on the planet with one aim.
[04:30.000 -> 04:33.000] To unlock the things they've learned so you can apply them to your life.
[04:33.000 -> 04:38.000] As always, Professor Damien Hughes, expert in high-achieving team cultures is alongside me.
[04:38.000 -> 04:46.000] And Damien, today's guest actually knows all about teamm, fel gymdeithaswr a hefyd fel cyfweliadur. Ond rwy'n credu ein bod ni'n ddiddorol
[04:46.000 -> 04:48.000] yw'r pethau mwy o ffyrdd na'r
[04:48.000 -> 04:50.000] cyfrifiadau o ffytbol neu'r fformaion.
[04:50.000 -> 04:52.000] Mae'n ymwneud â mynd i'r lefel
[04:52.000 -> 04:54.000] na'r rhai pobl ddim yn ei weld
[04:54.000 -> 04:56.000] neu'n ymwneud â.
[04:56.000 -> 04:58.000] Iawn, yn siŵr, Jake. Rwyf wedi bod yn ddiddorol
[04:58.000 -> 05:00.000] i gydnabod ein gwestiwn heddiw,
[05:00.000 -> 05:02.000] er mwyn ymweld â Robin Van Persie
[05:02.000 -> 05:04.000] yn y pryd.
[05:04.000 -> 05:05.960] Ac fe wnaeth e ddweud ychydig o'r gwestiwn haf, gwrthwythoddwn Robin Van Persie ac yn ddweud wrthym ychydig o anegdoedd am y gwestiwn yma
[05:05.960 -> 05:09.720] ynglyn â'r cyfle oedd yn chwaraewr ifanc
[05:09.720 -> 05:11.960] ac y gwestiwn yma oedd yn ei hyrwyddo,
[05:11.960 -> 05:13.680] yn ei ddweud wrthym beth y gafodd ei fod e ddim hoffi
[05:13.680 -> 05:16.080] a'r hyn y byddai e ddewis edrych arnynt.
[05:16.080 -> 05:19.840] Ac yn yr un anegdoedd honno, roedd ymddangos o'r hyder,
[05:19.840 -> 05:22.320] roedd unrhyw un o'r cynghrair sy'n chwaraewr tîm
[05:22.320 -> 05:23.640] a rhywun sy'n ddymunol
[05:23.640 -> 05:27.000] ac yn edrych ar y cymhwysedd o'i tîm. He was an example of someone that was a team player and somebody that was smart and looking to add to his team's competitiveness.
[05:27.000 -> 05:31.000] So I've been really excited to sit down and meet our guest.
[05:31.000 -> 05:31.840] Brilliant.
[05:31.840 -> 05:33.280] Well, let's get going on this one then
[05:33.280 -> 05:35.620] and meet one of the greatest footballers,
[05:35.620 -> 05:38.080] not just of his generation, but of any generation.
[05:38.080 -> 05:40.080] However, we actually want to go way beyond
[05:40.080 -> 05:42.040] the England Caps, the Invincibles,
[05:42.040 -> 05:44.580] the Premier League trophies.
[05:44.580 -> 05:45.680] What we're interested to know
[05:45.680 -> 05:50.400] about is his coping mechanism for dealing with pressure. As he blazed a trail, he was the first
[05:50.400 -> 05:55.520] black captain to lift a major trophy at Wembley. How can he encourage other high achievers to marry
[05:55.520 -> 06:00.960] sensitivity and success, particularly in a world where sensitivity often is either ignored or
[06:00.960 -> 06:06.360] sometimes even frowned upon? How can he not allow one to derail the other?
[06:06.360 -> 06:08.680] And how, as a leader, does he stick to his principles?
[06:08.680 -> 06:09.920] Does he speak his mind?
[06:09.920 -> 06:11.920] Does he maintain his credibility
[06:11.920 -> 06:13.400] and allow others to flourish?
[06:13.400 -> 06:15.840] Welcome to another episode where a well-known name
[06:15.840 -> 06:19.040] will share so much to help you listening to this
[06:19.040 -> 06:20.320] learn so much.
[06:20.320 -> 06:22.520] It's an absolute pleasure to welcome Sol Campbell
[06:22.520 -> 06:24.000] to the High Performance Podcast.
[06:24.000 -> 06:24.840] Hi there, Sol.
[06:24.840 -> 06:25.000] Good morning, Sol.
[06:25.000 -> 06:26.000] Good morning, gentlemen.
[06:26.000 -> 06:28.000] So, what is high performance?
[06:28.000 -> 06:33.000] For me, high performance is sacrifice, you know.
[06:33.000 -> 06:36.000] You know, so many people want to get to the top.
[06:36.000 -> 06:39.000] They speak about it, they say all the right things,
[06:39.000 -> 06:41.000] but there's a lot more to it.
[06:41.000 -> 06:45.800] You know, behind the scenes, you've got to really, you know, that commitment.
[06:45.800 -> 06:49.800] Sometimes people sacrifice it and, you know,
[06:49.800 -> 06:52.600] everybody, everything goes by the wayside
[06:52.600 -> 06:55.420] and, you know, your family, your friends,
[06:55.420 -> 06:56.900] you just want to get to the top.
[06:56.900 -> 06:59.400] And then, obviously, you want to stay at the top as well.
[06:59.400 -> 07:01.400] So when you're up there,
[07:01.400 -> 07:04.080] and if you have pushed everything aside,
[07:04.080 -> 07:06.360] and when you do get to the top, you don't want to let it go.
[07:06.360 -> 07:10.880] And some people almost have a little 10, 15 year blockage
[07:10.880 -> 07:12.920] with not the rest of the world,
[07:12.920 -> 07:16.120] but with everything outside trying to kind of get in the way.
[07:16.120 -> 07:18.920] So you really are concentrated on getting to the top
[07:18.920 -> 07:22.320] and not allowing anything to derail you.
[07:22.320 -> 07:24.440] And I want to stay there as long as possible.
[07:24.440 -> 07:29.360] I work hard, I'm playing my football and I'm getting better and better,
[07:30.000 -> 07:33.200] but I'm not going to allow anything to get in the way.
[07:33.200 -> 07:38.080] And there's other guys who do it in a different way and they have their families and things like
[07:38.080 -> 07:56.440] that and there's nothing wrong with that and they cope and they make it to the top and stay at the top as well. So there's different paths, but definitely sacrifice is one of those and commitment and consistency as well.
[07:56.920 -> 08:07.440] You know, be more consistent than everyone else around you. And if you get a team that is maybe 70, 80% of consistent players, then you're onto a winner.
[08:07.440 -> 08:11.680] So which one are you then, Sol? Are you the person who makes a bit of sacrifice,
[08:11.680 -> 08:16.560] but then at some point decides that family is also important and going out is important and
[08:16.560 -> 08:20.400] running businesses is important? Or were you the guy who, as you said in your own words,
[08:20.400 -> 08:26.680] for 15 years blocked out the rest of the world and it became about one thing and one thing only, being successful.
[08:26.760 -> 08:32.160] Yeah, I mean, for me, it's all about, you know, my family, you know, I've come from a
[08:32.360 -> 08:38.520] big family, working class back in Stratford, Plastow. So there wasn't much,
[08:39.640 -> 09:06.320] there wasn't the opportunities around. So, and I kind of, you know, I grew up in the, in the 70s and into the 80s, and I just saw what was happening around me. I saw some of my friends just go, but not go by the wayside, but there's no opportunities and you do get distracted. You do get distracted. And if you're not strong within yourself, yeah, you go off the rails and you almost disappear.
[09:06.320 -> 09:08.200] You take a totally, totally different path.
[09:08.200 -> 09:09.120] And I wasn't like that.
[09:09.120 -> 09:11.120] I knew what I wanted to do.
[09:12.920 -> 09:14.000] You know, I love football.
[09:14.000 -> 09:16.600] I didn't know that I wanted to be a footballer,
[09:16.600 -> 09:20.360] but I knew I loved this game and I love being around it.
[09:20.360 -> 09:23.040] I'm a competitor, I'm a street footballer.
[09:23.040 -> 09:24.520] So I played a lot of football in the streets
[09:24.520 -> 09:27.760] with older kids and that kind of really toughens you up
[09:27.760 -> 09:32.760] as well, and I just knew, and I knew when it started to go,
[09:33.080 -> 09:34.920] say my friends wanted to do something different,
[09:34.920 -> 09:37.760] which was not really the proper way of kind of living,
[09:37.760 -> 09:40.680] I knew where to kind of cut the line and say,
[09:40.680 -> 09:43.240] guys, I'll see you tomorrow at school or something like that,
[09:43.240 -> 09:46.440] and I just went home, or just carried on playing football
[09:46.440 -> 09:47.600] in my back garden or whatever.
[09:47.600 -> 09:52.600] So I knew from early on that my discipline was there
[09:52.600 -> 09:55.520] and I just wanted to, you know, I love football.
[09:55.520 -> 09:56.760] I didn't know I wanted to be a footballer,
[09:56.760 -> 09:58.000] but I just loved the game
[09:58.000 -> 09:59.760] and I wanted to get better and better at the game.
[09:59.760 -> 10:03.040] So that discipline, Sol, that really intrigues me.
[10:03.040 -> 10:04.960] So where did you develop that?
[10:04.960 -> 10:05.000] I know you said you grew up in a big family That discipline Sol, that really intrigues me. So where did you develop that?
[10:05.000 -> 10:07.040] I know you said you grew up in a big family
[10:07.040 -> 10:11.040] and I know that your parents were first generation
[10:11.040 -> 10:13.000] Jamaican immigrants.
[10:13.000 -> 10:15.820] Where did that sense of discipline come from?
[10:15.820 -> 10:19.640] I think it comes from something inside me,
[10:20.980 -> 10:23.640] my environment, my mom, my dad.
[10:23.640 -> 10:24.740] My dad was really tough.
[10:24.740 -> 10:25.680] My mom was loving.
[10:25.680 -> 10:27.680] It was probably a nice balance.
[10:27.680 -> 10:34.200] And also I was just switched on and I looked around my area and I saw guys, you know, enjoying
[10:34.200 -> 10:39.800] themselves as you should as a young boy growing up, but then kind of losing it and going on
[10:39.800 -> 10:40.800] a different path.
[10:40.800 -> 10:50.000] And I just had something inside me saying, well, a little voice saying, look, no, this is not for you. Definitely my parents as well, the discipline they had for me. And
[10:50.000 -> 10:55.280] something inside me, just something different about me saying, well, this is not the way to
[10:55.280 -> 10:59.360] do it. This is not you, Sol Zier, Jeremiah Campbell. This is not you.
[10:59.720 -> 11:04.160] I wonder whether your parents then sort of almost, whether it was the love or whether it was
[11:04.160 -> 11:09.040] the discipline, made you feel a bit special, made you feel like you're not one of those, there's more,
[11:09.040 -> 11:12.560] you've got more in your life, you're going to do more than just go out and have a few drinks and
[11:12.560 -> 11:18.240] nick a car and get into trouble. I think for me, they always wanted the best. I come from Jamaica,
[11:18.240 -> 11:26.960] I was first generation into London, into the UK, it was tough for them. So they wanted the best for their sons
[11:26.960 -> 11:33.600] and daughters and you know, not always it worked out, but they tried. You can only try
[11:33.600 -> 11:40.840] as a parent. But for me, it comes down to what is inside you. How do you feel? How do
[11:40.840 -> 11:45.880] you look at the world? How does the world look at you? And vice versa. Your kind
[11:45.880 -> 11:51.640] of natural intelligence, not intelligence that you learn from books and things like
[11:51.640 -> 11:57.560] that. That natural awareness of what's good and what's bad. Yes, sometimes it gets blurred.
[11:57.560 -> 12:02.680] And sometimes you make mistakes as well as a kid, and that's acceptable. But something
[12:02.680 -> 12:05.920] kicks in and something inside you say, I don't want to
[12:05.920 -> 12:09.640] cross the line because I know where that's going. And sometimes you've gone down that
[12:09.640 -> 12:15.920] line, and you cross the line, and it's not ended up in a good place. So you that's the
[12:15.920 -> 12:19.800] way you learn as well, through mistakes.
[12:19.880 -> 12:24.920] There's one particular incident that sort of cemented this moral compass for you that you
[12:24.920 -> 12:27.120] thought this is the right way to do it. Because to be so young and have such a clear Yn un cyfnod yn benodol, a oedd y cyfnod yma'n ei ddifrifio i chi, a'ch bod chi'n meddwl mai dyma'r ffordd dda i'w wneud?
[12:27.120 -> 12:31.360] Oherwydd i fod yn ychydig yn iawn ac i gael y deunydd o'r iaith a'r ddau
[12:31.360 -> 12:35.040] a'r hyn sydd o'ch moriau, mae'n debyg i chi fod yn ddifrifol.
[12:35.040 -> 12:39.440] Rwy'n credu, rwy'n credu, dyma pan ddewisais y ffyrdd yn unwaith
[12:39.440 -> 12:43.520] ac rydw i wedi mynd yn ôl i'r sîn
[12:43.520 -> 12:48.080] ac roedd rhywun yn gweld fi ac yna fe wnaethon nhw ddod allan I kind of went back to the scene and someone saw me and then they found out and told my
[12:48.080 -> 12:52.320] dad and he had to pay for a new window and I got a click around the ear or a bit more
[12:52.320 -> 12:59.560] than that anyway. So I started to work out, you know, this is not the way to kind of act
[12:59.560 -> 13:05.600] and carry yourself. So I learned pretty early on, you know, the right and wrong.
[13:05.600 -> 13:07.540] And what about when football started?
[13:07.540 -> 13:09.760] I'm really interested to know how that mindset
[13:09.760 -> 13:10.680] was beneficial to you.
[13:10.680 -> 13:12.720] Once you left home, you went to Lillashore,
[13:12.720 -> 13:14.640] you know, you were in that select group of people
[13:14.640 -> 13:16.820] that at a very young age were identified
[13:16.820 -> 13:19.100] as being exceptionally talented.
[13:19.100 -> 13:20.280] You went from a crowded home
[13:20.280 -> 13:22.060] to a very different environment.
[13:22.060 -> 13:25.080] What did that complete independence offer you at that point?
[13:25.080 -> 13:26.480] And how much did the things you'd
[13:26.480 -> 13:27.960] learned growing up in central London
[13:27.960 -> 13:28.360] help you?
[13:28.640 -> 13:31.840] To know what, um, it was been, um,
[13:32.160 -> 13:33.680] fantastic kind of balance for me.
[13:34.360 -> 13:34.680] Yes.
[13:34.720 -> 13:37.160] I've got the street kind of, um, you
[13:37.160 -> 13:38.360] know, learning football in the streets
[13:38.360 -> 13:39.120] and things like that.
[13:39.360 -> 13:40.480] And a little bit of school football,
[13:40.480 -> 13:41.480] a little bit of district football, but
[13:41.520 -> 13:43.680] what 80% is street football.
[13:44.240 -> 13:47.920] Growing up, growing up and then, you know, getting into Liddeshaw and, and
[13:47.940 -> 13:50.740] getting that kind of classical training.
[13:51.160 -> 13:56.280] Yes, I came from a very, very crowded home and then went into Liddeshaw that
[13:56.280 -> 14:01.220] I had my own bed, my own wardrobe and simple, simple things that, you know,
[14:01.220 -> 14:04.760] my kids can't even dream of, you know, how I used to live.
[14:06.260 -> 14:10.560] And another four guys in the room in the dormitory. So it was a nice balance for me and I learned a hell of
[14:10.560 -> 14:15.860] a lot just being in that environment. I had a fantastic time at Luddershaw. I learned
[14:15.860 -> 14:20.620] the street football to kind of be thinking outside the box as you have to do as a street
[14:20.620 -> 14:24.700] footballer. I'm nine years old and I'm playing against 12 year olds or whatever. So you've
[14:24.700 -> 14:27.280] got to work out, I'm not as strong as them, but you've got to work
[14:27.280 -> 14:32.560] out how to beat them. So you bring that kind of thinking outside the box kind of mentality
[14:32.560 -> 14:39.600] and then you get classical training and you allow both sides to kind of grow and not diminish.
[14:39.600 -> 14:45.640] Because then as you go, as I started to get older, I started to feel, unless you've got to know the rules
[14:45.640 -> 14:46.720] and the games of the game,
[14:46.720 -> 14:49.520] but then also to set yourself from the rest,
[14:49.520 -> 14:50.960] you've got to have something special.
[14:50.960 -> 14:53.840] So don't allow the football that made you great
[14:53.840 -> 14:56.640] as a seven, eight, nine, 10 year old,
[14:56.640 -> 14:58.360] don't allow that to kind of disappear.
[14:58.360 -> 15:00.480] For me as a coach as well, I like doing that.
[15:00.480 -> 15:03.040] I want players to kind of express themselves
[15:03.040 -> 15:04.040] and don't lose.
[15:04.040 -> 15:09.320] I want something special there. I want to get to the heart of you. What's you? I want to take that special
[15:09.320 -> 15:14.440] kind of talent out of you and explore that and let it grow as well. For me, the balance
[15:14.440 -> 15:18.640] between Liddeshaw and street football was fantastic and it gave me discipline. You know,
[15:18.640 -> 15:22.280] you've got this opportunity, don't let it go. You know, I had some friends there. Well,
[15:22.280 -> 15:25.840] I still have friends from Liddleshore, they had a slightly
[15:25.840 -> 15:31.640] different kind of upbringing, well-to-do, everybody saying they were going to be the
[15:31.640 -> 15:36.040] next best thing from centre forward to midfielder to defenders.
[15:36.040 -> 15:40.840] I was kind of always on the side, just growing up and my family was on the sidelines and
[15:40.840 -> 15:44.580] shouting you're the best, you're the best, I had to do it all myself.
[15:44.580 -> 15:48.560] But these guys grew up and it changes and they disappear and, you know, within two,
[15:48.560 -> 15:54.240] three years, they're out the game. But I was hungry. I came there, I wasn't good. I had
[15:54.240 -> 15:59.520] attributes, but my long distance stuff wasn't good. I was quick, but I didn't know how to get
[15:59.520 -> 16:04.000] even quicker. You know, things like that, which I was taught there. But then I carried on. My
[16:04.000 -> 16:08.480] training week would be, you know, Monday, Tuesday, train, and then you have a half a day and
[16:08.480 -> 16:14.720] then you would train and you would do a workout on a, I think on a Tuesday, long distance
[16:14.720 -> 16:18.800] or circuits, and then you'd watch a game. So I remember I used to do all that. And on
[16:18.800 -> 16:26.800] a Saturday morning, I've done a workout, you know, on 3,000 metres or shuttles in the week plus training, and
[16:26.800 -> 16:31.320] I'll do another session, you know, repeat that session to get better, because I was
[16:31.320 -> 16:36.720] kind of way behind all the other guys. And I said, oh, I'm not having this. I was maybe
[16:36.720 -> 16:42.000] second from bottom out of 16 guys. Even one of the keepers beat me, you know, thinking
[16:42.000 -> 16:47.280] what we're doing. So I kind of set myself, right, I'm going to work and I'm going to work and I'm going to get better. I'm going to get better.
[16:47.280 -> 16:53.000] My fitness, my speed, my endurance and speed as well. So I did all those works, then played
[16:53.000 -> 16:56.760] on a Sunday. I couldn't believe it. I was doing all that at 14 years old because I was
[16:56.760 -> 17:01.200] so behind everyone, but I had that pride in myself. I did that for six months, not six
[17:01.200 -> 17:09.920] months, yeah, about three months. And then they did another test. I was joint third and that's the work in the work ethic. And I knew I didn't want to waste
[17:09.920 -> 17:15.640] this opportunity. They gave me a lot of information about my body, my circuits, and they were
[17:15.640 -> 17:21.800] very good. There's a guy called Craig Simmons, a fantastic guy there for the FA. And he taught
[17:21.800 -> 17:25.040] me a lot about my body. And I kept going, I would work out
[17:25.040 -> 17:27.280] before I went to sleep in the showers and things like that.
[17:27.280 -> 17:29.840] I would do my burpees and all that kind of stuff.
[17:29.840 -> 17:32.400] And I was, I was kind of hiding, making sure none of the lads saw me.
[17:32.400 -> 17:33.080] So what are you doing?
[17:33.080 -> 17:34.880] Do some extra homework or doing some extra work.
[17:35.080 -> 17:36.600] So I didn't use to tell anybody.
[17:36.760 -> 17:39.040] I used to have a shower, workout, and then go to bed.
[17:39.400 -> 17:42.160] And I used to do all those things with no one knowing.
[17:42.240 -> 17:46.080] And just, and then all of a, the lads saw me on one session
[17:46.080 -> 17:49.360] and did the 3000, the shuttles and the speed work.
[17:49.360 -> 17:50.600] And all of a sudden, I was third
[17:50.600 -> 17:51.520] and they just couldn't believe it.
[17:51.520 -> 17:53.720] I said, I put a lot of work in behind the scenes.
[17:53.720 -> 17:55.480] What is this strange thing, Sol,
[17:55.480 -> 17:57.200] that I've identified in football,
[17:57.200 -> 17:59.480] just in my role as a broadcaster,
[17:59.480 -> 18:01.280] outside the game looking in,
[18:01.280 -> 18:03.720] which I haven't seen in the athletics
[18:03.720 -> 18:09.240] when I've covered that or Formula One when I covered that, this kind of desire to not be a SWAT. They
[18:09.240 -> 18:12.560] talk about being busy don't they? For ex-players sitting there going, oh he was busy, he was
[18:12.560 -> 18:16.840] busy, he was always doing extras, oh. And then they also say like two
[18:16.840 -> 18:20.720] breaths later, wish I'd been more dedicated as a player, wish I'd taken care of my
[18:20.720 -> 18:23.720] body, wish I'd done the extra bits. And I'm thinking, hold on, you still haven't
[18:23.720 -> 18:25.240] managed to connect the dots here
[18:25.240 -> 18:27.600] that that's all those other players were doing
[18:27.600 -> 18:29.800] was the extra stuff that got them to the top.
[18:29.800 -> 18:31.240] What is that about football?
[18:31.240 -> 18:33.400] It totally confuses me.
[18:33.400 -> 18:37.800] When you're in a team that has a mixture of quality
[18:37.800 -> 18:40.640] and guys who are good playing football,
[18:40.640 -> 18:42.160] but are not really committed,
[18:42.160 -> 18:44.480] they made it and they're settled,
[18:44.480 -> 18:46.120] they're happy where they are.
[18:46.120 -> 18:48.840] And you got a mixture, then it might start to come out,
[18:48.840 -> 18:50.600] oh, he's busy, he's doing an extra, things like that.
[18:50.600 -> 18:53.560] You know, just to kind of almost cover themselves
[18:53.560 -> 18:55.720] and make themselves look important.
[18:55.720 -> 18:58.480] But I think when you're on the top side,
[18:58.480 -> 18:59.800] everyone's doing extras.
[18:59.800 -> 19:01.320] Because if you don't do extras,
[19:01.320 -> 19:03.280] you look like the odd one out.
[19:03.280 -> 19:05.080] That's how I saw it. I used to have that, you know, at Tottenham, you know, some would do extras, some wouldn't do extras, you look like the odd one out. That's how I saw it.
[19:05.080 -> 19:07.040] I used to have that at Tottenham,
[19:07.040 -> 19:09.880] some would do extras, some wouldn't do extras.
[19:09.880 -> 19:12.720] When I was at Arsenal, nearly everyone did extras.
[19:12.720 -> 19:15.320] So there weren't even free kicks or a bit of running
[19:15.320 -> 19:18.560] or a bit of kind of two touch or whatever games.
[19:18.560 -> 19:20.320] Everyone did extras.
[19:20.320 -> 19:22.040] No one just went straight in.
[19:22.040 -> 19:24.520] So I think it comes down to the quality
[19:24.520 -> 19:27.160] and the mentality of the team wherever you are.
[19:27.160 -> 19:28.720] And also I think the manager as well, you know.
[19:28.720 -> 19:30.600] So jumping forward a little bit then, Sol,
[19:30.600 -> 19:34.120] how do you as a head coach go into environments
[19:34.120 -> 19:38.120] and handle seeing that mix of responses?
[19:38.120 -> 19:40.200] Some players staying behind and doing the extras,
[19:40.200 -> 19:42.520] some of them sneaking off earlier.
[19:42.520 -> 19:44.520] Like how do you process that
[19:44.520 -> 19:47.360] and how do you try to change that culture?
[19:47.360 -> 19:52.360] Slowly, but you have to kind of try to implement it
[19:52.640 -> 19:55.000] quick enough because, say the first two weeks,
[19:55.000 -> 19:57.420] you can see the deficiency in some of the players.
[19:57.420 -> 19:59.640] And you can see one player, you know,
[19:59.640 -> 20:03.020] or say three, four players, and then the leader of the pack,
[20:03.020 -> 20:03.920] and then they all go in
[20:03.920 -> 20:08.720] and then there's only one or two left out. So you've got to say, right, how do I keep the leader
[20:08.720 -> 20:15.080] of the pack engaged? And what sometimes I do, I kind of extend the training to kind
[20:15.080 -> 20:20.920] of say, no, the training's not finished. This is the last session. So I kind of add another
[20:20.920 -> 20:29.360] 15 minutes really just to get in certain things, but add it in the training. So it's kind of add another 15 minutes really, just to get in certain things, but add it in the training so it's kind of official. If you leave them to their own devices, some of them
[20:29.360 -> 20:35.000] will just go in every day and not do extras. So you've got to be clever about it and implement
[20:35.000 -> 20:40.720] it into the training. There's some situations you have to kind of tweak the training to
[20:40.720 -> 20:48.160] kind of mask what you're trying to do. Now, it's part of the training, but really it's kind of specific kind of areas like shooting and
[20:48.320 -> 20:51.640] you know, crossing and things like that. You kind of mask it. I'm not saying I'm
[20:51.760 -> 20:57.480] trying to trick them, but they do it and then all of a sudden after a month, they
[20:57.480 -> 21:00.520] get it. And then you might say, right, the training's finished, you're fine to do
[21:00.520 -> 21:05.760] extras. And they might continue it and they do it on their own kind of accord.
[21:05.760 -> 21:09.120] And that's what I want. I want to give the responsibility to the players. But in the
[21:09.120 -> 21:13.280] beginning, if I don't know everybody and I don't know some of them might sneak, not sneak off,
[21:13.280 -> 21:17.840] go off and I've had enough, I have to kind of put it in. And then after about a month or two,
[21:17.840 -> 21:22.640] allow them to say, look, do you fancy doing some more? And then I know if they're really committed
[21:22.640 -> 21:27.520] about their job. And what are you like, Sol, with the people who you've given them a month,
[21:27.520 -> 21:31.680] and you've pretty much laid the groundwork for this, and they still choose not to do the extras?
[21:31.680 -> 21:37.680] Do you know what? It's, if I need to get, you know, results, and someone is particularly kind
[21:37.680 -> 21:42.640] of, they're down in one part of their game, and I need to get that up to the proper level,
[21:42.640 -> 21:49.320] I'll actually pull them and say, look, no,'re doing the session, I'll pull them because I know you have to do that.
[21:49.320 -> 21:54.280] You can't allow, you're in a situation that you need to get your wins, you need to, you
[21:54.280 -> 21:58.960] know, improve the team, you need to move up the table or you need to get out of relegation
[21:58.960 -> 22:06.640] or you need to win, whatever. You need to do this. You cannot allow, you know, it just to fester and continue without
[22:06.640 -> 22:12.800] getting checked. And then come Saturday, it affects you. And then ultimately, you don't get
[22:12.800 -> 22:18.800] the results. You're out the door. So, so you've got to say, I've given you a quarter, but you
[22:18.800 -> 22:23.280] still don't want to know, but right, I'm going to, you know, take it and implement this into the
[22:23.280 -> 22:26.120] training session so I can get the best out of you.
[22:26.120 -> 22:27.340] You know, we need to win games.
[22:27.340 -> 22:28.600] I need to stay in the job.
[22:28.600 -> 22:29.560] I want to be successful.
[22:29.560 -> 22:31.640] I want to make you successful as well.
[22:31.640 -> 22:32.680] Not just me.
[22:32.680 -> 22:34.560] You know, football's hard work.
[22:34.560 -> 22:36.120] You know, it's not easy.
[22:36.120 -> 22:38.840] The harder you work, the easier it does get
[22:38.840 -> 22:41.280] because you're used to that kind of, you know, that level.
[22:41.280 -> 22:43.240] See, one of the things that fascinates me
[22:43.240 -> 22:45.000] in understanding some of your career history, Sol,
[22:45.000 -> 22:48.000] is your ability to almost observe
[22:48.000 -> 22:50.000] and watch and spot signs, you know.
[22:50.000 -> 22:52.000] That's something that you describe you saw
[22:52.000 -> 22:55.000] as the streets as a kid, going to Lillishaw,
[22:55.000 -> 22:56.000] going into Arsenal.
[22:56.000 -> 22:58.000] You saw patterns of behaviour,
[22:58.000 -> 23:01.000] you saw things that intrigued you.
[23:01.000 -> 23:04.000] When you walk into an environment,
[23:04.000 -> 23:06.760] what sort of things do you observe
[23:06.760 -> 23:09.200] that tell you it's a healthy culture?
[23:09.200 -> 23:12.260] It's a culture where improvement, discipline
[23:12.260 -> 23:15.840] and high performance is expected?
[23:16.800 -> 23:20.400] First of all, I go in and see who says hello.
[23:20.400 -> 23:21.220] Things like that.
[23:21.220 -> 23:22.800] How do they treat each other?
[23:22.800 -> 23:24.480] Are they just walking past
[23:24.480 -> 23:26.560] and not even recognizing anybody? Are they just, you know, walking past and, you know, not even, you know,
[23:26.560 -> 23:29.200] recognising anybody? Are their heads down all the time?
[23:29.200 -> 23:33.440] Or you get a variety of characters in football clubs and you need that.
[23:33.440 -> 23:37.240] You need that. I even, I love all that kind of, the banter and all that.
[23:37.240 -> 23:42.320] And I love all that. But just the small things, politeness, being courteous,
[23:42.320 -> 23:45.280] being on time, tardiness. Are they on time?
[23:45.400 -> 23:48.480] You know, are they late coming out of training? Yes, I get that. Sometimes you're
[23:48.480 -> 23:54.080] late, but is it a regular thing? All those little things because they take off. It's
[23:54.080 -> 23:58.440] all respect. If you can't get on time or you're injured and you need to be in, I
[23:58.440 -> 24:01.240] don't know, an hour before everybody starts or an hour and a half before you
[24:01.240 -> 24:09.120] start, are you there? Or are you kind of right on the, you know, on the hour and a half or hour to kind of, you know, clock in? Why can't
[24:09.120 -> 24:12.640] you get there 10 minutes earlier or whatever? So I see, you see all those things, those
[24:12.640 -> 24:16.880] little nuances that go on and you've got to, you've got to, and then you piece it together.
[24:16.880 -> 24:20.680] You can't do it straight away. You've got, you've got to allow it to kind of fester and
[24:20.680 -> 24:24.700] then they can see your discipline and you talk to them and, and you see if it carries
[24:24.700 -> 24:29.860] on or does it stop? You, you have a meetings with them and you say, this is how this should
[24:29.860 -> 24:34.440] be going. It could rub them up the wrong way, but you know what it takes to kind of get
[24:34.440 -> 24:40.480] to the top. And for me, when I set these things, it's a sieve. You know, you start sieving
[24:40.480 -> 24:47.200] out who really wants it, who's committed. I need to find that out very, very quickly.
[24:47.200 -> 24:53.000] You do find out who's who in a game and their attitude and who they are in half time and
[24:53.000 -> 24:57.080] if they're 1-0 down, who keeps them fighting, all those kind of things. So you piece that
[24:57.080 -> 25:02.800] all together. But I learn a lot from the training ground, the training sessions and things like
[25:02.800 -> 25:08.720] that, because you're there more, 80% of the time you're at the training ground and you can put a session on and you can see if
[25:08.720 -> 25:13.440] someone gets it very early on or their work ethic is correct.
[25:13.440 -> 25:19.520] It's interesting stuff this Damien, because it's so adaptable to real life for people who are
[25:19.520 -> 25:23.040] listening to this podcast and they're not involved in football and they never will be, but they might
[25:23.040 -> 25:26.320] run a business or work in a business, work in a team and they need this.
[25:26.320 -> 25:28.000] And I know you talk a lot, Damien,
[25:28.000 -> 25:30.260] when you speak to people about tripwires
[25:30.260 -> 25:32.320] and it sounds to me like that's what Sol is setting
[25:32.320 -> 25:34.680] for his players, these little tripwires
[25:34.680 -> 25:36.080] and let's see who falls.
[25:36.080 -> 25:37.680] There's no BB trap there.
[25:37.680 -> 25:40.840] It's not that kind of, it's just,
[25:40.840 -> 25:42.800] I'm just trying to find out, you know,
[25:42.800 -> 25:45.360] what's the level of everybody really, you know,
[25:45.360 -> 25:47.200] because I need to find out the commitment.
[25:47.200 -> 25:48.360] It's not like, oh, you're trick wiring,
[25:48.360 -> 25:49.600] like boom, it goes off.
[25:50.560 -> 25:51.680] It's not that bad.
[25:51.680 -> 25:53.480] No, but the story of a trick wire is,
[25:53.480 -> 25:56.440] like where the origins of it come from is,
[25:56.440 -> 25:59.400] I don't know if you remember the band Van Halen,
[25:59.400 -> 26:01.480] and they were the guys that in 1984,
[26:01.480 -> 26:04.240] they were the biggest rock act in the world.
[26:04.240 -> 26:06.640] And Dave Lee Roth, the lead singer, hadfyfyrwyr, yn ymdrechu
[26:06.640 -> 26:12.080] i bobl weithio ar y sefydliadau, fel pan nad oedd nobl yn gweld y dyddiau'n ymdrech,
[26:12.080 -> 26:16.000] a oeddent yn cymryd, a oeddent yn gwneud yr hyn y ddweud oeddent yn ei wneud, a oeddent yn
[26:16.000 -> 26:20.000] dilyn pob peth o'r gweithiau, felly pob pethau rydych chi'n ysgrifennu ar y clwb.
[26:20.000 -> 26:47.000] Felly, doddodd e i gyd, mae'n stori anhygoel mewn gŵoriaeth, lle yw'n ymwneud â bod y rhaid i rhaid i mewn i'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r rhif drwy'r pethau hynny yn dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud y byddai'n dweud the work behind it.
[26:47.000 -> 26:53.000] So what Jake's describing is when you see somebody whether they shake hands or would they look you in the eye and say hello.
[26:53.000 -> 26:59.000] So what Jake's describing is when you see somebody whether they shake hands or would they look you in the eye and say hello.
[26:59.000 -> 27:09.760] That's almost a tripwire moment that gives you a clue as to what kind of culture, how people feel about the place when they're around. Would you do us a favor, Sol, would you share with us what is the
[27:09.760 -> 27:13.760] first message you like to give to the players when you go into a football club? You've done it twice
[27:13.760 -> 27:19.680] now and I think first impressions count for a lot, you never get a second chance to make them.
[27:19.680 -> 27:24.160] What is it that you say to those players to set the tone, set the agenda and more importantly,
[27:24.160 -> 27:27.400] set the culture that you want at a Sol Campbell football club?
[27:27.480 -> 27:31.200] I think the first thing is for me is shaking everybody's hands and looking at
[27:31.200 -> 27:34.240] them and say, look, how you doing? I'm blah, blah, blah. Because you know, I've
[27:34.240 -> 27:38.920] heard lots of stuff and things that I'm, you know, just a human being, normal guy.
[27:39.280 -> 27:43.600] Yes, you know, working hard, you know, as a professional footballer. And I'm here
[27:43.600 -> 28:06.960] as a manager and I want to get the best out of the club. So first for me, handshake, looking, you know, who are you, quick conversation and then obviously a meeting after as well. So I want to get them all down and sit down and have a meeting so they can hear me. It's a massive thing when people can hear you and the tone and also the honesty as well.
[28:06.960 -> 28:12.800] Being honest to the guys, because if you're not honest to the guys, within a couple of weeks,
[28:12.800 -> 28:18.080] they can find out who you are, really. Footballers are very good at that as a pack, you know,
[28:18.080 -> 28:22.160] they can work you out very quickly. And then the main thing is, as long as you're honest to the
[28:22.160 -> 28:30.600] players and you're kind of allowing people to, you people to have their say or everybody's got a chance until something else happens, I think
[28:30.600 -> 28:34.640] that's the kind of attitude and that's what I want to portray.
[28:34.640 -> 28:38.640] I'll give you the slate's clean, let's go again.
[28:38.640 -> 28:42.400] Because some players, the previous manager, they might not have been playing, they might
[28:42.400 -> 28:44.280] be out of favour.
[28:44.280 -> 28:48.840] No, I want to come in and I say, look, you've got a chance. Prove it to me. Prove that you
[28:48.840 -> 28:53.000] want to be in the team. That's your kind of selection. I want that to happen. It's
[28:53.000 -> 28:57.280] competition breeds success. You should allow that to happen. Who wants to be the
[28:57.280 -> 29:01.720] best? Who wants to stay in the team? And then you create that. And as long as you're
[29:01.720 -> 29:10.240] honest about it and you're fair, you do get the players who don't play as well but still want to be in a team and all that kind of stuff.
[29:10.240 -> 29:14.000] So you get all that kind of to deal with. There's a lot of headaches to deal with but
[29:14.000 -> 29:18.400] as a manager it's normal. And I want to portray that. I want to give them as much opportunity
[29:18.400 -> 29:22.280] to kind of prove their worth. Do you want to play for this club?
[29:22.280 -> 29:27.400] It's interesting stuff. And what's great about the position you're in Sol is this, you know, no player can look at you and
[29:27.400 -> 29:30.480] say, you don't know what I'm going through because you had it
[29:30.480 -> 29:32.840] all. You had the highs, you had the lows, the great times, the
[29:32.840 -> 29:36.200] hard times. And that's what's brilliant is that this is all
[29:36.200 -> 29:38.840] against the backdrop of what you went through. I want to talk
[29:38.840 -> 29:41.560] about how you deal with footballers who are struggling a
[29:41.560 -> 29:45.880] bit and who maybe have got issues, maybe with their mental health.
[29:45.880 -> 29:47.720] Is that something that you experienced
[29:47.720 -> 29:50.360] when you were a player, mental health struggles at any time?
[29:50.360 -> 29:53.840] I think for me, you know, when I was playing,
[29:53.840 -> 29:56.860] I think a lot of people probably didn't really,
[29:57.720 -> 30:00.000] didn't really talk about mental problems
[30:00.000 -> 30:02.500] or stresses in their lives as much
[30:02.500 -> 30:05.360] until it kind of hit the headlines or whatever.
[30:05.360 -> 30:08.920] You know, and some players have taken it out in,
[30:08.920 -> 30:11.760] you know, in drink and drugs and, you know,
[30:11.760 -> 30:12.640] all that kind of stuff.
[30:12.640 -> 30:15.880] So for me, I kind of say to myself,
[30:15.880 -> 30:18.940] well, I'm from a tough background.
[30:18.940 -> 30:20.300] Life is not easy.
[30:20.300 -> 30:21.800] Sometimes you're gonna have some great times,
[30:21.800 -> 30:24.560] and, but sometimes you're gonna have some really bad times
[30:24.560 -> 30:25.760] and you gotta deal with it. I just kind of go back, but sometimes you're going to have some really bad times, and you've got to deal with it.
[30:25.760 -> 30:29.560] I just kind of go back, back to plaster, back to Stratford.
[30:29.560 -> 30:31.080] And I used to think to myself,
[30:31.080 -> 30:34.000] God, you know where you've come from,
[30:34.000 -> 30:37.320] where you are now, yes, it's hurting.
[30:37.320 -> 30:39.760] Yes, you're pissed off.
[30:39.760 -> 30:41.200] Yes, you're angry.
[30:41.200 -> 30:42.320] Fans are on your back.
[30:42.320 -> 30:44.240] Yes, the media are on your back.
[30:44.240 -> 30:49.240] Yes, the manager's on your back. Everyone's on your back. But I used to kind of retreat and go
[30:49.240 -> 30:55.360] back into remembering those days and reminiscing about those days of where I came from and
[30:55.360 -> 31:00.800] how difficult it was. And that used to help me. I know it's not going to help everybody.
[31:00.800 -> 31:08.440] Some people need external help as well. Some people need a psychologist, a sports psychologist to help them out. Sometimes they need a good friend or a
[31:08.440 -> 31:14.560] family member. It's a mixture. But for me, I went back to that and that kind of got
[31:14.560 -> 31:20.440] me through life. Just remembering how difficult it was growing up as a young
[31:20.440 -> 31:27.200] lad, nine brothers, two sisters in East London, not a penny to rub together,
[31:27.200 -> 31:33.120] had to grow up incredibly fast as a kid because you had to or you'd just get trampled over
[31:33.120 -> 31:38.680] and kind of went back and simplified your life. And then you can start seeing what's
[31:38.680 -> 31:45.000] wrong because as time goes on, you pick up things, you pick up cars,
[31:45.360 -> 31:47.680] you pick up clothes, you pick up houses,
[31:47.680 -> 31:51.200] you pick up bad habits, you pick all those things up,
[31:51.200 -> 31:53.240] you know, and the list can go on.
[31:53.240 -> 31:58.240] But for me, I kind of retracted and simplified it,
[31:58.400 -> 32:01.160] and then I could see what's really wrong.
[32:01.160 -> 32:03.520] I would go back and say, right, you know what, that's wrong,
[32:03.520 -> 32:10.640] that's out, that's staying. And then all of a sudden you start saying, do you know what, I'm okay now. It's
[32:10.640 -> 32:15.560] not perfect, but I'm going to build on this. And then you can see again. And you can see,
[32:15.560 -> 32:19.880] and then also you can see the warning signs when they start coming along again. You say,
[32:19.880 -> 32:29.560] do you know what, I'm going to, why birthday? I'm going to, I know that story from the beginning, middle, end now, I'm on to the next because my goal is, you know, I
[32:29.560 -> 32:33.880] want to make it, I want to continue playing football for another, say, 10
[32:33.880 -> 32:36.960] years or five years, or maybe my last year, I want to make it, you know, a
[32:36.960 -> 32:43.840] really good year. So that's how I kind of dealt with it. I think you need all
[32:43.840 -> 32:46.160] these kind of levers to help players.
[32:46.160 -> 32:47.000] You know, you need to talk to them,
[32:47.000 -> 32:48.960] you need to give them space because it is,
[32:48.960 -> 32:52.120] the player is your player, you want them to play,
[32:52.120 -> 32:55.040] but if it's really bothering them and they can't play,
[32:55.040 -> 32:55.880] you got to help them.
[32:55.880 -> 32:57.440] And there's a lot of levers now,
[32:57.440 -> 32:59.120] and a lot of people can help these guys
[32:59.120 -> 33:00.520] to kind of get through.
[33:00.520 -> 33:02.440] But the main thing is you got to give them support.
[33:02.440 -> 33:04.680] So can I ask you about that experience
[33:04.680 -> 33:07.920] of going back to play Store and sort of simplifying your life?
[33:07.920 -> 33:12.600] Because that sounds like you were regularly updating your to-don't list,
[33:12.600 -> 33:16.400] like the things that you didn't want in your life, which I'm really intrigued about.
[33:16.400 -> 33:22.520] Can you give us a specific example of something that when you went back and decided to simplify things,
[33:22.520 -> 33:25.420] something that you did choose to let go of?
[33:25.420 -> 33:28.380] I think letting go after a bad result,
[33:28.380 -> 33:33.320] after losing, you know, semi-finals of FA Cups
[33:33.320 -> 33:36.060] back in the days, I used to kind of be in the dumps
[33:36.060 -> 33:38.500] for, I don't know, like a week, two weeks.
[33:38.500 -> 33:41.100] It used to take a long time for me to recover
[33:41.100 -> 33:42.620] after certain games.
[33:42.620 -> 33:46.960] And I think it's because I was passionate about it and maybe
[33:47.720 -> 33:48.840] that's all I had.
[33:49.520 -> 33:50.920] You know, growing up as a kid,
[33:50.920 -> 33:53.120] I was so kind of concentrated
[33:53.120 -> 33:54.800] on being successful.
[33:54.800 -> 33:56.080] So when it did go wrong,
[33:56.840 -> 33:58.320] I think that's the only thing to kind of
[33:58.400 -> 34:00.000] reset. I couldn't really go back to the
[34:00.000 -> 34:01.600] family because, you know, brothers
[34:01.600 -> 34:02.600] weren't really into that.
[34:02.600 -> 34:04.320] And mum and dad back in there
[34:04.400 -> 34:08.360] weren't kind of really listening, not, maybe my mum a little bit. So I had to
[34:08.360 -> 34:12.520] kind of reset myself. I had to do everything myself really. And there's
[34:12.520 -> 34:17.480] loads of moments for me to kind of reset and I just carried on like that. Just
[34:17.480 -> 34:20.520] thinking about Plaster, thinking about Stratford, thinking about my good
[34:20.520 -> 34:26.440] friends from yesterday I still talk to. I used to actually drive back there
[34:26.440 -> 34:30.440] and walk at my local park, West Ham Park,
[34:30.440 -> 34:34.360] walk around and just try to kind of settle myself down
[34:34.360 -> 34:36.000] and put my feet back on the ground
[34:36.000 -> 34:38.360] and just walk around the terrace houses
[34:38.360 -> 34:41.680] and around the estates and just, as I said,
[34:41.680 -> 34:43.600] just simplify it and it happened throughout my life
[34:43.600 -> 34:48.560] and I just kept on doing that. I would always go back home and just kind of, you know,
[34:48.560 -> 34:49.640] reboot.
[34:49.640 -> 34:52.200] And what do you do now when you have those moments?
[34:52.200 -> 34:54.680] I walk around the garden,
[34:54.680 -> 34:56.440] take the dog around the garden.
[34:56.440 -> 34:57.320] I like walking.
[34:57.320 -> 34:58.800] I like walking.
[34:58.800 -> 35:00.520] That gets me, I know some guys like to play golf.
[35:00.520 -> 35:02.840] Is that preferable to talking to people,
[35:02.840 -> 35:04.760] so you seem to sort of deal with it on your own,
[35:04.760 -> 35:05.560] that works for you? No, no, I'll talk to my wife, Is that preferable to talking to people, so you seem to sort of deal with it on your own, that works for you?
[35:05.560 -> 35:08.160] No, no, I'll talk to my wife, you know,
[35:08.160 -> 35:09.000] about other things,
[35:09.000 -> 35:11.880] but when I just want to kind of just have a little break
[35:11.880 -> 35:13.280] from the kids and things like that,
[35:13.280 -> 35:14.760] just have a nice little walk with the dog
[35:14.760 -> 35:17.000] and nice and easy.
[35:17.000 -> 35:21.520] And it's not always kind of a biggie.
[35:21.520 -> 35:22.800] Sometimes you just need a break
[35:22.800 -> 35:26.000] and just want to enjoy the weather. You know,
[35:26.000 -> 35:32.400] if it's raining or it's sunshining, I don't really mind, but a nice stroll with dogs is great.
[35:32.400 -> 35:36.560] One thing I really want to get into is, I think it's a brilliant coping mechanism,
[35:36.560 -> 35:40.960] right? To go back to where you came from, to ground you. Listen, this sounds ridiculous,
[35:40.960 -> 35:45.280] but when I ended up on kids TV, I did the same thing. And like, it's not
[35:45.280 -> 35:49.440] quite at the level of competing for premier league trophies and playing at some of the biggest clubs
[35:49.440 -> 35:54.000] in the country. But even I, as a sort of 18 year old in London, had to come back to Norfolk and
[35:54.000 -> 35:58.480] just be at my mum and dad's just to remind myself that not to sort of get carried away. So I can't
[35:58.480 -> 36:04.960] imagine the level that you're at. My question is, what were these coping mechanisms about coping
[36:04.960 -> 36:05.480] with?
[36:05.480 -> 36:06.660] Was it pressure from fans?
[36:06.660 -> 36:07.760] Was it pressure from the media?
[36:07.760 -> 36:09.920] I'm so interested to hear,
[36:09.920 -> 36:12.880] like how difficult those periods were
[36:12.880 -> 36:15.460] and the toll that they took on you,
[36:15.460 -> 36:18.720] because you were dragged through it, weren't you?
[36:18.720 -> 36:20.920] Yeah, yeah, I think for me,
[36:20.920 -> 36:28.560] you know, the guys now probably are well protected and the media is dampened down.
[36:28.560 -> 36:32.880] It's not as vicious as it used to be and sometimes vile as well.
[36:33.320 -> 36:34.520] It's not like that now.
[36:35.000 -> 36:37.240] There's a lot more checks and balances going on.
[36:37.800 -> 36:38.840] And people don't accept it.
[36:38.840 -> 36:39.680] What's the thing that hurt the most?
[36:39.680 -> 36:40.480] Can you remember?
[36:40.720 -> 36:45.420] I think for me, I think for me, it's all about, you know, when I left, say,
[36:45.420 -> 36:50.940] Tottenham to Arsenal, I think there was a, you know, the whole kind of move was,
[36:50.940 -> 36:56.940] was, you know, the pressure, even though London is, you know, a huge city, it
[36:56.940 -> 37:00.420] was like, you know, all eyes on me for at least, at least the first couple of
[37:00.420 -> 37:04.100] seasons, you know, even though I, you know, I was successful in the first
[37:04.100 -> 37:09.440] year, you know, won the double, the pressure I was under under and also I was injured as well. I came injured as well. So
[37:09.440 -> 37:16.160] that even, you know, I started on a back foot, so I had to get fit first and then get in a team.
[37:16.160 -> 37:22.400] And, you know, looking back, I don't think the kind of stuff that was chucked at me by everyone
[37:22.400 -> 37:25.600] who wanted to put their 10 pence worth in,
[37:25.600 -> 37:27.520] you just couldn't get away with that anymore.
[37:27.520 -> 37:29.040] That kind of, that level.
[37:29.040 -> 37:31.800] But then, you know, I went back.
[37:31.800 -> 37:32.920] I went back to East London.
[37:32.920 -> 37:34.500] I went back, all those things,
[37:34.500 -> 37:37.840] I kind of simplified my lifestyle
[37:37.840 -> 37:42.520] and just totally was laser focused on making it
[37:42.520 -> 37:47.760] and winning and getting fit and not letting anything get in the way,
[37:48.560 -> 37:52.880] you know, full concentration, commitment, you know, sacrifice.
[37:52.880 -> 37:56.000] So they lit the fire in you then, that criticism lit a fire?
[37:56.000 -> 38:01.520] Well, you know, the fire was there anyway. I didn't have to have the criticism,
[38:01.520 -> 38:04.800] you know, on that level, you know, I would do one thing wrong and someone said,
[38:04.800 -> 38:05.040] oh I played a bad game, do you know what I mean? Like, you know, come on, you know, I didn't have to have the criticism on that level. I would do one thing wrong and someone said,
[38:05.040 -> 38:06.360] oh, I played a bad game.
[38:06.360 -> 38:07.680] Do you know what I mean?
[38:07.680 -> 38:09.880] Come on, you're just jumping on the bad way
[38:09.880 -> 38:12.360] and to kind of, let's bash Old Campbell.
[38:12.360 -> 38:17.320] But no, no, it's just laser concentrating,
[38:17.320 -> 38:20.200] laser focus to get to the top and maintain
[38:20.200 -> 38:21.880] and getting better and better and better.
[38:21.880 -> 38:23.640] And that's what I did.
[38:23.640 -> 38:26.080] I went back to my East London
[38:26.080 -> 38:34.080] days, back to when I was nine, 10, 11, 12, and also allowed myself to be free again. Allow my
[38:34.080 -> 38:40.080] football to kind of do the talking, just get on and be a team player and break down kind of,
[38:40.080 -> 38:46.240] you know, the barriers and things like that. And just start building, getting fit, building game by game, concentrating,
[38:46.240 -> 38:48.640] doing my extras and simplifying my life.
[38:48.640 -> 38:51.840] And I just went back to the old, you know,
[38:51.840 -> 38:53.840] East London days and be, you know,
[38:53.840 -> 38:56.200] just a real kind of, not a street fighter,
[38:56.200 -> 38:57.480] but a real go-getter.
[38:57.480 -> 38:59.080] I've been dealt these cards.
[38:59.080 -> 39:00.480] I don't like these cards.
[39:00.480 -> 39:03.120] So I'm going to do my utmost to change these cards,
[39:03.120 -> 39:05.080] basically change my destiny.
[39:05.080 -> 39:06.240] And that's what I wanted to do.
[39:06.240 -> 39:07.240] I had to win.
[39:07.240 -> 39:10.840] If I didn't win, I don't know what would people say when I did the move.
[39:10.840 -> 39:11.840] I don't know.
[39:11.840 -> 39:14.040] But I won and I was successful.
[39:14.040 -> 39:22.480] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns.
[39:22.480 -> 39:25.280] But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B. And advertising
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[39:53.040 -> 39:58.380] So, does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
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[40:15.360 -> 40:17.360] Terms and conditions apply.
[40:17.360 -> 40:19.000] Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.
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[41:54.420 -> 41:59.640] existing contacts. So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and
[41:59.640 -> 42:29.960] get premium wireless service for just $15 a month. To get this new customer offer and Is there any element of you that 20 years later is grateful for it?
[42:29.960 -> 42:34.120] Do you know what? Yeah grateful because I played an amazing side. But grateful for the
[42:34.120 -> 42:37.880] criticism for what that did for you? No because I think for me sometimes I think
[42:37.880 -> 42:42.440] the media, not so much now, overstepped the mark and it was doing lots of
[42:42.440 -> 42:49.080] things overstepping the mark you know at, at that time, you know, you can go on and on, I'm not going to go on all the court cases, things that I can go on
[42:49.080 -> 42:54.040] all day. I would have made it because that's inside me anyway. Competing, there was enough
[42:54.040 -> 42:57.560] competitors out there, you know, the teams, there was Man United, there was Liverpool,
[42:57.560 -> 43:02.480] there's Chelsea, there was enough teams to, you know, that's my competitive side. You know,
[43:02.480 -> 43:07.020] me beating, you know, one of the main teams to win the Premiership, that's all competitive side. I, you know, me beating, you know, one of the main teams to win the premiership.
[43:07.020 -> 43:07.860] That's all I need.
[43:07.860 -> 43:09.800] I don't need anyone else pushing me.
[43:09.800 -> 43:11.500] And that's how it should be.
[43:11.500 -> 43:14.540] Competing at that level against your peers.
[43:14.540 -> 43:15.660] Who's the best?
[43:15.660 -> 43:17.420] You know, that's me, you know, back in East London,
[43:17.420 -> 43:18.460] who's the best in the street?
[43:18.460 -> 43:19.580] Who's the best in this area?
[43:19.580 -> 43:20.740] Who's the best in this district?
[43:20.740 -> 43:22.180] Who's the best in the county?
[43:22.180 -> 43:24.940] You know, who's best, who's the best players in England?
[43:24.940 -> 43:26.000] Who's the best players in Europe? who's the best players in Europe,
[43:26.000 -> 43:27.180] who's the best players in the world?
[43:27.180 -> 43:31.640] That's my drive, not someone criticizing me.
[43:31.640 -> 43:34.480] So how does that competitive instinct
[43:34.480 -> 43:36.360] manifest itself today, Sol,
[43:36.360 -> 43:38.240] now that you have retired as a player?
[43:38.240 -> 43:40.160] I want to be the best manager possible,
[43:40.160 -> 43:41.760] if I get the chance.
[43:41.760 -> 43:43.800] I'm very good at, you know, getting in a situation
[43:43.800 -> 43:45.520] and working out very quickly how to get
[43:45.520 -> 43:50.400] this team up to standard and beyond that. And I want to be the best. It's a journey for me,
[43:51.040 -> 43:57.840] but I'm being positive and I'll fight all the way, do all the right things. It reminds me of
[43:57.840 -> 44:02.480] when I was young and I was getting overlooked all the time. And I was overlooked all the time
[44:02.480 -> 44:05.280] in a lot of scenarios from early age.
[44:05.280 -> 44:12.560] And I had to work to get to the top. I just hope, you know, me working as a manager, someone
[44:12.560 -> 44:19.760] out there, hierarchy wise, you know, sports director, we'll see that and understand that
[44:19.760 -> 44:25.760] I have the passion, I've got the ability, I just need the right club to kind of work for.
[44:26.760 -> 44:28.600] I wanna be successful.
[44:28.600 -> 44:30.560] Whilst I wanna come back and ask you about that,
[44:30.560 -> 44:33.160] I'm interested in terms of how that competitive side
[44:33.160 -> 44:34.880] manifests itself personally,
[44:34.880 -> 44:37.880] because you're also a father and a husband.
[44:37.880 -> 44:40.600] How do you sort of pass on these values
[44:40.600 -> 44:42.800] and these lessons to your children?
[44:42.800 -> 44:46.960] Every day, they're from a totally different background and lifestyle and environment and
[44:46.960 -> 44:52.320] you've got to kind of talk to them every day and pull them up on every day on all little things.
[44:52.320 -> 44:58.960] Being kind, understanding, you know, there's some kids from around the world who have nothing to eat,
[45:00.080 -> 45:06.000] no clothes, you know, giving their spare toys to charity, all those kind of things. So to show them
[45:06.880 -> 45:14.640] they are lucky, but also to make sure they don't ruin it, they don't waste all the opportunities,
[45:14.640 -> 45:20.960] waste the time at really good schools. Understand you've got to kind of utilise every second,
[45:20.960 -> 45:26.360] don't waste anything. Everything's precious. Your time, your life,
[45:26.360 -> 45:31.360] friendship, all that kind of stuff. So me and my wife, we push that and we encourage
[45:31.360 -> 45:36.880] that as well. And also to be strong as well at the same time and, you know, values and
[45:36.880 -> 45:41.240] understanding sometimes you've got to stand up for whatever, you know, you're feeling
[45:41.240 -> 45:51.880] and also express themselves as well. You want them to be artistic, you want them to be loving, you want them to try to begin to understand the world and want
[45:51.880 -> 45:56.600] that kind of curiosity in them and finding out what's around the corner, or what about
[45:56.600 -> 46:02.120] this and asking questions. I want them. I push that, me and my wife, we push that to
[46:02.120 -> 46:05.840] kind of implement that and we want that kind of feedback
[46:05.840 -> 46:09.680] from them. We want, and that's the best way. That's the only way you can, you know, you don't
[46:09.680 -> 46:14.160] want to say, right, you know, we're going to move back to East London and we're going to live there.
[46:14.160 -> 46:16.640] That's not going to happen. So you've got to do it in other ways.
[46:16.640 -> 46:22.800] And so you sit here as someone who has played almost 100 games for England, you've won trophies
[46:22.800 -> 46:28.160] at some of the biggest clubs in the country, You've got your coaching badges. You've had experience at League Two and experience at
[46:28.160 -> 46:32.640] League One. And I know that you feel that if you weren't black, you would have been the England
[46:32.640 -> 46:36.880] captain on a permanent basis. Do you still feel that because you're black, you're not getting
[46:36.880 -> 46:45.000] the chances in management? I think for me, the diversity in mentality is changing.
[46:45.640 -> 46:48.920] I think the hierarchy, makeup is probably not changing
[46:48.920 -> 46:51.640] as much, but the mentality is changing.
[46:51.640 -> 46:55.040] I think the next step is the fans to kind of start
[46:55.040 -> 46:59.720] to kind of change in the ways of who they would like
[46:59.720 -> 47:01.120] at their football club and things like that,
[47:01.120 -> 47:03.800] because they're a big part, they're a big part.
[47:03.800 -> 47:11.360] And understand, you know, talent is not just held by colour. Talent is held by whoever. And
[47:11.360 -> 47:15.500] if you are overlooking someone because of his colour, you're missing out on a great
[47:15.500 -> 47:21.600] manager who can quite easily come into your club and be successful and be amazing. And
[47:21.600 -> 47:28.520] at the same time, it might not work out, but don't stop yourself employing or opening up
[47:28.520 -> 47:31.400] to that idea of someone of color
[47:31.400 -> 47:32.880] managing your football club.
[47:32.880 -> 47:35.040] It's so archaic.
[47:35.040 -> 47:38.400] And you still think that that is the mindset of some fans.
[47:38.400 -> 47:40.360] There's still that barrier there.
[47:40.360 -> 47:43.800] Maybe even, is it subconscious?
[47:43.800 -> 47:45.280] Because I think if you went to football fans,
[47:45.280 -> 47:47.080] and if you went to chairman, and you went to boards,
[47:47.080 -> 47:48.680] and said, would you employ a black manager?
[47:48.680 -> 47:51.280] Would you like a black manager to manage your football club?
[47:51.280 -> 47:53.160] I do feel almost to a man and woman,
[47:53.160 -> 47:55.160] they go, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
[47:55.160 -> 47:56.520] But there is then a disconnect,
[47:56.520 -> 47:58.280] because there isn't black managers,
[47:58.280 -> 48:00.320] there isn't black coaches, there isn't black chairman,
[48:00.320 -> 48:02.080] there isn't black boardrooms.
[48:02.080 -> 48:04.600] I'm just so interested in where is this falling down?
[48:04.600 -> 48:10.320] Is this still unconscious, subconscious racism, where they don't even realise that they're making that
[48:10.320 -> 48:13.520] decision based on the colour of your skin, but that is what they're doing?
[48:14.240 -> 48:19.360] I can't really answer that. And what I can answer is, I think the media plays a big part
[48:20.000 -> 48:27.360] in how fans, hierarchy, sporting directors, how they go about picking their next manager.
[48:28.160 -> 48:33.680] And there's got to be a right consciousness and a right kind of the mindset of not only
[48:33.680 -> 48:39.920] changing the manager, but also changing the whole club, how it's run, who owns the club,
[48:39.920 -> 48:45.280] who's a director, who's the doctor, who's the kit man, all those things, not
[48:45.280 -> 48:46.240] just the manager.
[48:46.840 -> 48:48.680] I think you've got to change the whole kind of culture.
[48:48.840 -> 48:54.040] And then obviously the fans, they've got to realize that regardless of where you're
[48:54.040 -> 48:58.800] from or what color you should be open to someone who wants to really, you know, has
[48:58.800 -> 48:59.800] got the qualifications.
[49:00.240 -> 49:04.200] I don't know, maybe it's not your favorite, but at least allow him to have a chance
[49:04.200 -> 49:07.000] because you've, you've given ABC, you know, a chance.
[49:07.000 -> 49:09.000] Why not this guy a chance?
[49:09.000 -> 49:10.000] You know, he should not,
[49:10.000 -> 49:11.000] Carlos should not come into it.
[49:11.000 -> 49:13.000] In 20 years time, we'll be looking back
[49:13.000 -> 49:14.000] and say, what are we doing?
[49:14.000 -> 49:16.000] And it takes time.
[49:16.000 -> 49:18.000] You know, some of us haven't got time
[49:18.000 -> 49:20.000] to kind of, you know, wait on the sidelines
[49:20.000 -> 49:23.000] before people start changing their mentality,
[49:23.000 -> 49:24.000] their mindset.
[49:24.000 -> 49:26.240] You know, for me, I want it to start now.
[49:26.240 -> 49:27.360] It's hard for me because, you know,
[49:27.360 -> 49:30.680] I've got all my badges, I've played for the, you know,
[49:30.680 -> 49:33.120] some of the best teams and played with the best players,
[49:33.120 -> 49:36.080] but I can't manage some of the best teams in the world.
[49:36.080 -> 49:37.680] I get it, you've got to be experienced,
[49:37.680 -> 49:40.640] and I want to do that, but I want to build a career.
[49:40.640 -> 49:42.800] But if I can't build a career, I could never,
[49:42.800 -> 49:43.960] I won't be able to get to the top
[49:43.960 -> 49:50.400] if I can't build a career. As someone who works in the media, so tell me what you see, what you hate or what
[49:50.400 -> 49:52.320] you want to change from the media's perspective.
[49:52.320 -> 49:56.080] Steele-When you look at the media, I think they've got to be, I think it's the Danish,
[49:56.080 -> 50:02.280] was it Danish? I think the PFA did a kind of research, or paid for research, and I think
[50:02.280 -> 50:05.760] it's a Danish company, that they came back
[50:05.760 -> 50:12.280] and they looked at England, France, Italy, America, Spain, of the commentators. How they
[50:12.280 -> 50:16.800] would describe a black player, or someone who's lighter skinned, and things like that.
[50:16.800 -> 50:22.120] And they showed it was kind of, you know, oh he's a beast, if he's a black player, or
[50:22.120 -> 50:25.000] if he's lighter skinned, oh he's really intelligent, things like that.
[50:25.000 -> 50:28.400] Those are the things, and that's come out on research that...
[50:28.400 -> 50:30.800] So I remember it because we spoke about it at work.
[50:30.800 -> 50:34.760] 62, I remember the number, 62% of the praise
[50:34.760 -> 50:36.840] was aimed at players with a lighter skin tone.
[50:36.840 -> 50:41.360] 63% of criticism was aimed at players with a darker skin tone.
[50:41.360 -> 50:46.640] And commentators were seven times more likely to talk about players with a darker skin tone and commentators were seven times more likely to talk about players
[50:46.640 -> 50:51.440] with a darker skin tone being physical rather than talking about white players working hard.
[50:51.440 -> 50:51.920] Yeah.
[50:51.920 -> 50:59.920] If you go back to my career, 20 years, if you're maybe say, I don't know, you're 35 then
[51:00.720 -> 51:04.800] and then now you're 50 and you bought a football club, but you've had 20 years of someone saying
[51:04.800 -> 51:09.280] that on TV, what's that going to make you feel? Oh, is he intelligent enough to run the football
[51:09.280 -> 51:13.280] club? And that's, that's the thing. Well, I am, you know, there's a lot of people from, you know,
[51:13.280 -> 51:19.280] black players who are now trying to be managers are very intelligent, you know, so, so that is,
[51:19.280 -> 51:23.040] that is. I see it, but all they've, all those chairman have been told, isn't it? It's, oh yeah,
[51:23.040 -> 51:25.960] he's, he's a heart, he's is, oh yeah, he's a physical specimen,
[51:25.960 -> 51:26.800] he can run the lines,
[51:26.800 -> 51:28.520] he'll put a shift in on a football field,
[51:28.520 -> 51:30.560] but run a football club.
[51:30.560 -> 51:31.400] And then you're right,
[51:31.400 -> 51:33.760] it is that's years and years of being conditioned
[51:33.760 -> 51:36.480] to feel that way about black footballers, isn't it?
[51:36.480 -> 51:41.400] So I remember many years ago interviewing Ferenzo Riano
[51:41.400 -> 51:43.760] and asking him about his criteria
[51:43.760 -> 51:47.000] for selecting 37 year old Pep Guardiola, 37-oed,
[51:47.000 -> 51:50.000] i ddewis Barcelona.
[51:50.000 -> 51:55.000] Ac fe ddewis un conversaiant ganddi gyda'r investidor americà, Warren Buffett,
[51:55.000 -> 51:59.000] am adroddiadu un leader, oherwydd y glub o ffotbol neu un busnes.
[51:59.000 -> 52:02.000] Ac fe ddweud mae tri criteriau a ddewis i'w ddefnyddio.
[52:02.000 -> 52:04.000] Un, yr energiaf yw gwneud y tasg.
[52:04.000 -> 52:06.000] Y ddegan, y credibiliad,
[52:06.000 -> 52:08.000] felly pan ydych chi'n siarad, mae pobl yn gwrando atoch
[52:08.000 -> 52:10.000] a'u gwybod beth ydych chi'n siarad am.
[52:10.000 -> 52:12.000] Ond y treth a'r mwyaf critigol o'r criterion
[52:12.000 -> 52:14.000] oedd y digwyddiad,
[52:14.000 -> 52:16.000] y gallu i gynllunio'r ymddygiadau
[52:16.000 -> 52:18.000] rydych chi'n gofyn i bawb mewn eich ddiwygiad
[52:18.000 -> 52:20.000] i'w dangos.
[52:20.000 -> 52:22.000] Felly, beth bynnag byddwch chi'n dweud
[52:22.000 -> 52:24.000] pan ydych chi'n cymryd
[52:24.000 -> 52:50.280] y peth digwyddiadu, os byddwch chi'n dweud i'r cyfarwyddwr What would you say you offer when it comes to the integrity piece that if you were to say to a chairman or a decision maker that was deciding whether to appoint committed, 100%. You know, I would work day and night and you need to do that at a
[52:50.280 -> 52:54.000] football club because you want this football club to be successful. You want the
[52:54.000 -> 52:57.400] players to be successful and ultimately, hopefully, you know, you keep your job. So
[52:57.400 -> 53:02.320] I want to do that. And the passion, you know, passion, you can have a bad day, a
[53:02.320 -> 53:05.600] bad week, a bad month, a bad season, but I'm
[53:05.600 -> 53:09.520] never going to lose my love of football, regardless of what's happening out there.
[53:09.720 -> 53:15.120] And then you bring all those things together and you get a team, you build a team that
[53:15.560 -> 53:19.480] can withstand all that and win games and get out of trouble.
[53:20.040 -> 53:23.200] And I can bring that in the bucket falls.
[53:23.400 -> 53:27.720] And in honesty as well, honestly, the players can work you out out very quickly and you've got to be, as long as you're
[53:27.720 -> 53:29.720] honest with, I'm honest with you and you're honest with me.
[53:30.200 -> 53:32.080] That's, that's, that's what I'm all about.
[53:32.080 -> 53:36.040] Cause everything else I'll put, you know, everything into it to kind of win games and,
[53:36.320 -> 53:40.040] and, and work at systems and make sure players know what they do in and blah, blah, blah.
[53:40.400 -> 53:42.920] You bring all the, all those things together, all those ingredients.
[53:43.080 -> 53:48.000] I bring that, you know, knowledge, compassion, understanding.
[53:48.000 -> 53:48.840] That's what you bring.
[53:48.840 -> 53:52.160] You know, yes, I've done, you know, a lot in football,
[53:52.160 -> 53:54.280] but really, I'm really down to earth.
[53:54.280 -> 53:56.120] I know you can talk to me and I just get on with it.
[53:56.120 -> 53:59.000] Sometimes, yeah, I'm a bit switched on, you know,
[53:59.000 -> 54:01.840] but you want somebody switched on at a football club, don't you?
[54:01.840 -> 54:03.280] You don't want someone to kind of,
[54:03.280 -> 54:05.560] hey, let's go and a bit kind of pay a shout, can we sort that out? You want someone like that, don't you? You don't want someone to kind of, hey, let's go and a bit kind of pay a shout,
[54:05.560 -> 54:06.800] can we sort that out?
[54:06.800 -> 54:08.200] You want someone like that, don't you?
[54:08.200 -> 54:10.200] You don't want someone who doesn't see things.
[54:10.480 -> 54:11.880] And you want someone with work ethic
[54:11.880 -> 54:14.640] who's going to work tirelessly to kind of,
[54:14.880 -> 54:16.520] you know, make sure your club stays up,
[54:16.520 -> 54:20.120] make sure you've got a chance to win a cup or win the league.
[54:20.240 -> 54:22.400] And that's what I bring, because I'm a winner.
[54:22.640 -> 54:23.960] I've seen it, I feel it.
[54:24.240 -> 54:25.640] I know what it's all about,
[54:25.640 -> 54:27.720] and I just want to pass it on to wherever I go.
[54:27.720 -> 54:29.640] That was my question, so why do this?
[54:29.640 -> 54:32.320] Because you've built a career on being in control,
[54:32.320 -> 54:34.200] and you spoke about, as a young player,
[54:34.200 -> 54:36.480] putting in the effort and the graft and doing the extras,
[54:36.480 -> 54:38.920] and then coping with the pressure from the fans
[54:38.920 -> 54:40.720] and the media when you got to the biggest clubs,
[54:40.720 -> 54:43.040] and again, you dealt with that yourself.
[54:43.040 -> 54:44.760] Yet you've gone into two management jobs.
[54:44.760 -> 54:48.720] Macclesfield Town, you did a brilliant job, you kept them up but
[54:48.720 -> 54:52.120] then financial issues meant that you left and then you go to Southend where
[54:52.120 -> 54:54.800] you can't even sign a player because they've got financial problems and then
[54:54.800 -> 54:59.800] COVID hits and you leave. So on both occasions you left both clubs and you
[54:59.800 -> 55:04.300] had problems at both clubs not because of the work or the effort or the talent
[55:04.300 -> 55:10.240] that you bring as a manager but outside forces conspiring against you. Are you totally happy to go into
[55:10.240 -> 55:14.960] that world where it isn't about you and about your effort? I think for me, I got to pick,
[55:16.000 -> 55:24.320] you know, the club carefully next time around. I think the famous thing, what Alex Ferguson said,
[55:24.320 -> 55:26.480] don't pick your club, pick your chairman.
[55:26.480 -> 55:29.800] And that's, I think that's kind of nine times out of 10
[55:29.800 -> 55:31.360] is right, you've got to pick your chairman.
[55:31.360 -> 55:32.200] Does he back you?
[55:32.200 -> 55:33.920] Is he, or does she back you?
[55:33.920 -> 55:36.720] You're going into a club and there's all unknowns.
[55:36.720 -> 55:39.600] The first thing is you've got to have that trust
[55:39.600 -> 55:41.720] that whoever's there, he's got your back
[55:41.720 -> 55:43.440] and understands that, you know, you've got a job
[55:43.440 -> 55:48.920] and backs you and helps you through this and believes in you that you can do it.
[55:49.080 -> 55:53.960] And as we sit here talking now, do you feel you'll get that chance?
[55:54.400 -> 55:55.000] I don't know.
[55:55.360 -> 55:56.120] You know, I'm positive.
[55:56.120 -> 55:59.120] I believe in myself, but someone else has to believe in me.
[55:59.520 -> 56:03.200] There's got to be enough yeses around that table to say, look, give him a go.
[56:03.320 -> 56:04.720] See what it can do for our club.
[56:08.800 -> 56:15.440] You know, why not this guy? He's talked a lot. Let's see if he can actually walk the walk. Let's see. You know, and also for me, I'll say, look, give me a year. As long as
[56:15.440 -> 56:20.520] there's a pre-season in there, give me a year. I'm ready. I'm always, you know, I want it.
[56:20.520 -> 56:23.720] I've got passion. I want to kind of, you know, it's a journey. It's tough, but I'm willing
[56:23.720 -> 56:25.320] to take this journey. I'm ready. But it's passion, I want to kind of, you know, it's a journey, it's tough, but I'm willing to take this journey.
[56:25.320 -> 56:28.480] I'm ready, but it's gonna come down to
[56:28.480 -> 56:30.520] if someone believes I'm ready.
[56:30.520 -> 56:33.240] And when you leave a club then, Sol,
[56:33.240 -> 56:37.640] one that meets the criteria that you would want,
[56:37.640 -> 56:38.920] what would you want people to say
[56:38.920 -> 56:41.440] your legacy would have been there?
[56:41.440 -> 56:43.000] I think you want to be a custodian, you know,
[56:43.000 -> 56:44.680] you want to come into a club,
[56:44.680 -> 56:50.960] and when you leave, it's in a better position. And that's me, you know, that's me. I want to
[56:50.960 -> 56:57.840] do a hard day's work and make sure people know that. I want people around me working as hard as
[56:57.840 -> 57:02.800] me and that's what I mean. You want a custodian, you want to leave a club that is in a better
[57:02.800 -> 57:05.920] position than when you got in through the door.
[57:05.920 -> 57:06.760] Brilliant.
[57:06.760 -> 57:09.880] So interesting to hear you talk like this, Solon.
[57:09.880 -> 57:11.760] You know, I suppose what stands out for me
[57:11.760 -> 57:14.960] from this conversation is that all these years,
[57:14.960 -> 57:16.960] all these lessons, all these things that you've learned,
[57:16.960 -> 57:19.360] you're now putting into life as a manager.
[57:19.360 -> 57:20.280] I just wonder whether,
[57:20.280 -> 57:22.640] before we move on to our final sort of quickfire questions,
[57:22.640 -> 57:26.600] whether actually, whether it happens or not, these days you kind of feel a bit
[57:26.600 -> 57:29.800] armor-plated really, you know, you've been through so much, you've experienced it
[57:29.800 -> 57:33.040] all and yet you're still standing tall, you're still willing to go again. I have
[57:33.040 -> 57:36.440] a phrase, never sit in the comfy chair and it feels to me like that's you, you
[57:36.440 -> 57:40.080] don't want to just sit at home and think I had a good career, you want to go again
[57:40.080 -> 57:46.880] and I just get the sense that all of these experiences are part of your armor.
[57:46.880 -> 57:49.920] Yeah, well, it's you learn, if you,
[57:49.920 -> 57:51.320] I'm not saying I'm a sponge,
[57:51.320 -> 57:55.120] but you want to kind of, you need to learn,
[57:55.120 -> 57:56.440] if you want to get better,
[57:56.440 -> 58:00.240] some of the harsh lessons can keep you in good stead.
[58:00.240 -> 58:03.080] And also the frustrations of not thinking that,
[58:03.080 -> 58:04.040] when is it gonna happen?
[58:04.040 -> 58:05.680] Am I gonna get in?
[58:05.680 -> 58:10.680] Yeah, that can fuel the kind of the fire inside you.
[58:10.860 -> 58:11.920] I think it's really interesting.
[58:11.920 -> 58:15.720] Thanks so much for being so honest and open with us.
[58:15.720 -> 58:18.480] We always finish with our quickfire questions.
[58:19.960 -> 58:23.060] First of all, three non-negotiables
[58:23.060 -> 58:25.820] that the people around you have to buy into.
[58:25.820 -> 58:28.500] What are the three things they must bring to the table?
[58:28.500 -> 58:30.420] Oh, I say one of them is passion.
[58:30.420 -> 58:31.260] Yeah.
[58:31.260 -> 58:32.780] You got to have passion.
[58:34.220 -> 58:37.500] And commitment, totally commitment,
[58:37.500 -> 58:40.900] committed to the cause, and whatever cause it is.
[58:41.860 -> 58:48.000] And for me, the trust is big for me, trust from both sides. Trust, honesty.
[58:48.000 -> 58:52.000] What advice would you give to a young soldier starting out in play stuff?
[58:52.000 -> 59:02.000] I would say just keep that passion for football. Train, train, train, train by yourself,
[59:02.000 -> 59:11.840] train with your mates, but keep the passion. Don't lose the love of the game. There's so many things out there that could easily take you off
[59:11.840 -> 59:18.080] the course or distract you. Eyes on the ball, eyes on the game and it will get you through.
[59:18.080 -> 59:21.760] And then the love will get you through the game. You know, there's lots of ups and downs in football,
[59:21.760 -> 59:25.880] but if you love football and the passion's there, you know, it'll get you through.
[59:26.360 -> 59:28.280] How important is legacy to you?
[59:28.360 -> 59:28.760] So?
[59:28.840 -> 59:29.840] Depends on the legacy.
[59:29.840 -> 59:31.400] It depends who's looking at the legacy.
[59:31.720 -> 59:34.840] Legacy for myself, you know, what I've done,
[59:35.240 -> 59:36.080] how I've done it.
[59:36.480 -> 59:39.360] You know, some people might say he's done it in a good way.
[59:39.360 -> 59:41.200] Some people say it's indifferent.
[59:41.720 -> 59:42.880] But the main thing is for me,
[59:42.880 -> 01:00:06.920] legacy is all about leaving a positive mark for the future, for other people to maybe come after you to say, do you know what, he did it in this way, I quite like that, or I might take a little bit of that and do it in another way. That's what it's all about. The legacy of someone who comes in after you and they either use it or use part of it, but the main thing is as long as they use it
[01:00:06.920 -> 01:00:08.280] in a positive way.
[01:00:08.280 -> 01:00:10.920] And finally, Sol, what's your one golden rule
[01:00:10.920 -> 01:00:13.000] to live in a high performance life?
[01:00:13.000 -> 01:00:14.040] Concentration.
[01:00:15.080 -> 01:00:19.800] Don't get bored of the ability to concentrate.
[01:00:19.800 -> 01:00:21.560] So many people lose concentration in the game,
[01:00:21.560 -> 01:00:22.960] so concentration.
[01:00:22.960 -> 01:00:23.800] I love it.
[01:00:24.600 -> 01:00:27.640] It's been wonderful to sort of go through those
[01:00:27.640 -> 01:00:30.840] amazing moments in your life, the ups and the downs. And it's
[01:00:30.880 -> 01:00:33.520] it's clear that it's all distilled down now into a man
[01:00:33.520 -> 01:00:36.640] who is as full of passion for football as he's ever been. And
[01:00:37.200 -> 01:00:41.040] and he just he just wants an opportunity. And I think we all
[01:00:41.060 -> 01:00:44.040] we all agree having had this hour just to sit and talk with
[01:00:44.040 -> 01:00:47.400] you. I know an awful lot more about you and your mindset and things.
[01:00:47.400 -> 01:00:52.080] And we live in this world where we see a tiny part of someone's life and we just
[01:00:52.080 -> 01:00:53.560] make up the rest of the story.
[01:00:53.560 -> 01:00:57.800] And I think conversations like this are great for us hearing the real story.
[01:00:57.840 -> 01:01:02.920] And I hope that in some small way, maybe it does help to open some doors
[01:01:02.920 -> 01:01:04.080] that I think deserve to be opened.
[01:01:04.400 -> 01:01:04.840] Yeah.
[01:01:04.920 -> 01:01:07.680] Thank you. It's been a pleasure, it's been really good.
[01:01:07.680 -> 01:01:08.240] Top man.
[01:01:11.360 -> 01:01:11.840] Damien.
[01:01:12.560 -> 01:01:13.360] Jake.
[01:01:13.360 -> 01:01:19.680] If ever we've done an interview where the message to people listening is try and find out the whole
[01:01:19.680 -> 01:01:27.620] picture about someone before you judge that person, I feel that that is the interview. Definitely, I think he was a man that
[01:01:27.620 -> 01:01:30.140] everybody's got a perception of within his world,
[01:01:30.140 -> 01:01:31.980] you know, they all think that they know him,
[01:01:31.980 -> 01:01:33.940] and I think, but I think when you hear somebody
[01:01:33.940 -> 01:01:36.620] speak with such passion and such honesty
[01:01:36.620 -> 01:01:39.540] and just openness, I think it challenges
[01:01:39.540 -> 01:01:41.900] your perception as long as you're prepared to listen.
[01:01:41.900 -> 01:01:44.020] And you know how the word desperation
[01:01:44.020 -> 01:01:46.160] has negative connotations, right?
[01:01:46.160 -> 01:01:48.740] I mean this in totally in a positive way.
[01:01:48.740 -> 01:01:51.200] You could hear in his voice and the way he spoke,
[01:01:51.200 -> 01:01:54.080] his desperation for getting into management
[01:01:54.080 -> 01:01:55.840] and for being successful and for doing a good job.
[01:01:55.840 -> 01:01:58.240] And I don't mean that like, oh, Sol Campbell's desperate.
[01:01:58.240 -> 01:02:00.480] I mean it like in a positive way,
[01:02:00.480 -> 01:02:03.240] he's got all this inside him and he's desperate to share it.
[01:02:03.240 -> 01:02:06.280] Yeah, it was always like the image that came to mind
[01:02:06.280 -> 01:02:08.360] was somebody that's got it all just,
[01:02:08.360 -> 01:02:11.720] it's bubbling away and it needs to escape in some form.
[01:02:11.720 -> 01:02:13.520] You know, and I think for him,
[01:02:13.520 -> 01:02:17.440] his outlet is to go into a club and to lay his blueprint.
[01:02:17.440 -> 01:02:19.840] And I love the idea of what,
[01:02:19.840 -> 01:02:21.280] of when we said, what would his legacy be?
[01:02:21.280 -> 01:02:25.040] It'd be to leave a place better than when he found it, which is all that any of us can ever do, whether it's we're in a classroom, a'r mae'n dweud, beth bydd ei legais, yw i ddod o le i leo'n well na'r dyddid yn ei ddod o le,
[01:02:25.040 -> 01:02:26.960] sy'n un o bethau na'n gallwch ni gwneud,
[01:02:26.960 -> 01:02:31.120] os ydym yn y claswm, os ydym yn y de at ein teulu,
[01:02:31.120 -> 01:02:32.880] neu os ydym yn mynd i mewn i'r busnes,
[01:02:32.880 -> 01:02:37.440] mae'n ymwneud â, a allwch chi ddod o le yn well na'r dyddid y gwnewch chi'n ei ddod o le?
[01:02:37.440 -> 01:02:42.080] Ac rwy'n credu, dyna, yw, dydyn nhw ddim yn ymdrech i'w arwain,
[01:02:42.080 -> 01:02:45.200] dyna'n arwain y bydd yn dod i mewn a'i wneud ei gynllun gwych. you know, he's not over promising, he's just promising that he'll come in and do his absolute best.
[01:02:45.200 -> 01:02:53.200] And the conversation about racism is one that I find kind of difficult in some ways because I work in football media
[01:02:53.200 -> 01:02:58.200] and if you'd have said to me a year ago, there's an unconscious bias in the work that happens,
[01:02:58.200 -> 01:03:02.800] I wouldn't have understood or wouldn't have believed and actually when you look at the results of those surveys
[01:03:02.800 -> 01:03:07.120] and you talk to someone like Sol, you realise that, yeah, you can go, oh, yeah, yeah,
[01:03:07.120 -> 01:03:08.160] we must be better.
[01:03:08.160 -> 01:03:11.400] We must try not to put black players in a certain box
[01:03:11.400 -> 01:03:12.860] and talk about them in the same way
[01:03:12.860 -> 01:03:14.240] as we talk about white players.
[01:03:14.240 -> 01:03:17.080] But he is an example of someone whose life is actually
[01:03:17.080 -> 01:03:22.140] being affected month by month because of years and years
[01:03:22.140 -> 01:03:23.480] of this kind of bias.
[01:03:23.480 -> 01:03:27.080] And it leaves people thinking that black managers
[01:03:27.080 -> 01:03:28.320] are different to white managers.
[01:03:28.320 -> 01:03:30.560] And you know, you can't question him on that
[01:03:30.560 -> 01:03:31.760] because he's experiencing it.
[01:03:31.760 -> 01:03:32.960] He's living that every day.
[01:03:32.960 -> 01:03:33.960] Yeah, definitely.
[01:03:33.960 -> 01:03:36.560] There's a great phrase that I remember hearing
[01:03:36.560 -> 01:03:40.160] Barack Obama use in his inauguration speech
[01:03:40.160 -> 01:03:41.240] when he first became president,
[01:03:41.240 -> 01:03:43.300] when he said, how can we shake hands
[01:03:43.300 -> 01:03:45.280] if we're only waving our fists at each other? And I think what Saul was doing there was he wasn't attacking anybody. pan ddechreuodd y prif bwrwn yn y prif bwrwn, pan dweud, sut y gallwn ni ddod yn ôl os ydyn ni'n unig yn ymgyrchu'n ffyrdd â'n gilydd
[01:03:45.280 -> 01:03:47.520] ac rwy'n credu yr hyn y gwnai Sol yn ei wneud yno oedd,
[01:03:47.520 -> 01:03:48.800] nad oedd yn atog unrhyw un,
[01:03:48.800 -> 01:03:50.720] roedd yn gofyn i chi ffwrdd i'w ddarlith,
[01:03:50.720 -> 01:03:51.760] i'r pwynt ei hun,
[01:03:51.760 -> 01:03:53.880] i ddeall sut mae'n rhaid i chi
[01:03:53.880 -> 01:03:55.440] fod ar ddarlith cyflawni
[01:03:55.440 -> 01:03:57.680] rhwng rhywun sy'n ysgrifennu eich ffysioledd
[01:03:57.680 -> 01:03:59.040] yn ymhellach i'ch deallwyddiad.
[01:03:59.040 -> 01:04:00.200] Ac rwy'n credu,
[01:04:00.200 -> 01:04:02.240] os oes gennym y syniad hwnnw,
[01:04:02.240 -> 01:04:03.680] nid yw'n cymryd sylweddoli
[01:04:03.680 -> 01:04:05.000] y byddwn ni'n raciid sy'n sylweddoli,
[01:04:05.000 -> 01:04:08.000] weithiau mae'n ddifrifol yn ein amgylchedd
[01:04:08.000 -> 01:04:10.000] a'n cyfathrebu,
[01:04:10.000 -> 01:04:12.000] ac rwy'n credu, pan fyddwn yn cael ei gwybod,
[01:04:12.000 -> 01:04:14.000] mae'n ymdrechu i'n natu bwysig
[01:04:14.000 -> 01:04:16.000] i gynnal ceisio deall a phrofi.
[01:04:16.000 -> 01:04:18.000] Ie, ac mae'n rhywbeth na allwch chi ei gwestio,
[01:04:18.000 -> 01:04:20.000] oherwydd allwch chi gael ei wneud
[01:04:20.000 -> 01:04:22.000] yw edrych ar how manyn o rheoliadurau nôl
[01:04:22.000 -> 01:04:24.000] yw y Liga Ffotbol, ac dyna eich ateb.
[01:04:24.000 -> 01:04:25.360] Ie, yn amlwg. Iawn, rwy'n clywed, mae'n sgwrs ffasinatig at how many black managers are in the football league and there's your answer. Yeah, definitely.
[01:04:25.360 -> 01:04:30.000] All right, listen, a really fascinating conversation and again, one that is totally
[01:04:30.000 -> 01:04:34.640] different in every respect to any high-performance podcast episode we've done before. Thanks for your time, man.
[01:04:38.000 -> 01:04:41.760] Well, Damien, do you know what I like? When we speak to Joe Malone, as we did a couple of weeks
[01:04:41.760 -> 01:04:49.120] ago, people get in touch to say, I love that because it wasn't really about business, it was about life. And then when we have a conversation
[01:04:49.120 -> 01:04:54.200] with someone like Sol Campbell, people often realise that we think that elite sport is
[01:04:54.200 -> 01:04:59.080] different to the rest of the world, and actually we realise that elite sports people are just
[01:04:59.080 -> 01:05:03.600] like us, and that the things that create success in the world of sport are the same things
[01:05:03.600 -> 01:05:05.440] that create success in the world of life, the world of business, everywhere really. y bydd y pethau sy'n cynhyrchu cyfansoddol mewn byd o fyd yw'r pethau y bydd yn cynhyrchu cyfansoddol mewn byd o byd o bywyd,
[01:05:05.440 -> 01:05:07.360] y byd o busnes, pob le, mewn gwirionedd.
[01:05:07.360 -> 01:05:11.040] Yn siŵr, Jake. Rwy'n ofalus o'r amser, llawer, lawer o flynyddoedd yn ôl,
[01:05:11.040 -> 01:05:17.680] rwy'n cwrdd â Angelo Dundee, a oedd y cofnodwyr o Mohammad Ali a Sugar Ray Leonard, i'w enwio.
[01:05:17.680 -> 01:05:20.080] Ac rwy'n cofio, roedd fel un o'r plant yn y swyddi,
[01:05:20.080 -> 01:05:25.520] roeddwn i'n siarad gyda nhw am y ffyrddwr hwn a hwn, ac yn dweud wrthym beth sydd wedi digwydd gyda'r ffyrddwr hwn a'r ffyrddwr hwn a'n dweud wrthym beth sydd wedi digwydd gyda'r ffyrddwr hwn.
[01:05:25.520 -> 01:05:27.520] Ac roedd e'n dweud wrthym, yn dda iawn, am ddod o'r amser
[01:05:27.520 -> 01:05:28.520] ac yna, ar ôl y chwin, roedd e'n dweud,
[01:05:28.520 -> 01:05:30.240] David, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n dymuno'n ddifrifol.
[01:05:30.240 -> 01:05:32.040] Roedd e'n dweud, yr hyn rydw i'n ei wneud.
[01:05:32.040 -> 01:05:33.840] Roeddwn i'n gorfod, roeddwn i'n meddwl o wneud y pwysleisiau.
[01:05:33.840 -> 01:05:35.760] Ac roedd e'n dweud, dwi ddim yn gweithio gyda ffyrddwr.
[01:05:35.760 -> 01:05:36.720] Rydw i'n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc
[01:05:36.720 -> 01:05:38.840] sy'n barod i ffwrdd am bywyd.
[01:05:38.840 -> 01:05:40.400] Ac rwy'n credu mai hynny'n cymryd
[01:05:40.400 -> 01:05:42.720] ymhellach rydyn ni'n ceisio mynd i mewn i'r podcast hon.
[01:05:42.720 -> 01:05:44.800] Nid ydym yn siarad gyda phartneriaid,
[01:05:44.800 -> 01:05:46.960] rydyn ni'n siarad gyda phobl sy'n barod i weithio fel phartneriaid. Nid not talking to entrepreneurs, we're talking to people that just happen
[01:05:46.960 -> 01:05:48.120] to work as entrepreneurs.
[01:05:48.120 -> 01:05:49.680] We're not speaking to sports people,
[01:05:49.680 -> 01:05:52.080] we're talking to people that work in sport.
[01:05:52.080 -> 01:05:54.520] And I think it's the people element that's consistent,
[01:05:54.520 -> 01:05:57.160] regardless of whatever industry they're in.
[01:05:57.160 -> 01:05:59.800] The challenges, the mindset, the beliefs,
[01:05:59.800 -> 01:06:01.480] the ones they surround themselves with.
[01:06:01.480 -> 01:06:03.080] That's what intrigues me,
[01:06:03.080 -> 01:06:05.480] and I know it intrigues you as well, Jake.
[01:06:05.480 -> 01:06:07.720] It does, and what I don't want people to do
[01:06:07.720 -> 01:06:09.960] is kind of think that there has to be some separation.
[01:06:09.960 -> 01:06:12.960] I think that high performance is high performance for life,
[01:06:12.960 -> 01:06:13.800] if you know what I mean.
[01:06:13.800 -> 01:06:14.620] Yeah.
[01:06:14.620 -> 01:06:17.140] And I loved it when Kevin Sinfield said,
[01:06:17.140 -> 01:06:19.960] to be a winner, first you have to be a winner at home.
[01:06:19.960 -> 01:06:22.100] In other words, you can't be successful in business,
[01:06:22.100 -> 01:06:23.540] but useless with your friends.
[01:06:23.540 -> 01:06:25.180] You can't be successful in sport, but not pay your friends. You can't be successful in sport,
[01:06:25.180 -> 01:06:26.700] but not pay attention to your kids.
[01:06:26.700 -> 01:06:29.140] It's about a whole set of behaviors,
[01:06:29.140 -> 01:06:33.180] a whole set of non-negotiables that you take with you,
[01:06:33.180 -> 01:06:35.960] no matter where you go on the journey of life.
[01:06:35.960 -> 01:06:36.800] It doesn't matter.
[01:06:36.800 -> 01:06:38.460] These things are there all the time.
[01:06:38.460 -> 01:06:39.300] Absolutely.
[01:06:39.300 -> 01:06:42.500] It's what Mahatma Gandhi, when he described it as harmonies,
[01:06:42.500 -> 01:06:43.980] when your thoughts, your words,
[01:06:43.980 -> 01:06:45.240] and your actions are all aligned. And harmonies, when your thoughts, your words, and your actions
[01:06:45.240 -> 01:06:46.640] are all aligned.
[01:06:46.640 -> 01:06:48.040] And I think, like you say,
[01:06:48.040 -> 01:06:50.040] that that's not something you turn on and off.
[01:06:50.040 -> 01:06:51.400] When you're at home, you're a good dad,
[01:06:51.400 -> 01:06:53.440] but you're a bad friend,
[01:06:53.440 -> 01:06:57.840] or you're great at work, but you're terrible at home.
[01:06:57.840 -> 01:07:00.360] These are habits and behaviors and mindsets
[01:07:00.360 -> 01:07:04.160] that are consistent, regardless of where you find yourself.
[01:07:04.160 -> 01:07:06.980] There's that consistency of application
[01:07:06.980 -> 01:07:08.220] in the way that you show up.
[01:07:08.220 -> 01:07:10.060] And you know, when I first spoke to you
[01:07:10.060 -> 01:07:12.460] about creating this podcast, in my mind,
[01:07:12.460 -> 01:07:14.800] I didn't really want to talk about failures and struggles.
[01:07:14.800 -> 01:07:16.800] I wanted this podcast to be totally about
[01:07:16.800 -> 01:07:19.180] sort of celebrating people's successes.
[01:07:19.180 -> 01:07:22.140] But as we've gone on, it becomes more and more important,
[01:07:22.140 -> 01:07:24.660] I think, to have those conversations about the dark times.
[01:07:24.660 -> 01:07:27.320] And we had a message that came in on Instagram
[01:07:27.320 -> 01:07:29.520] from Shekhadi81 saying,
[01:07:29.520 -> 01:07:31.680] what about learning from the ones who didn't quite make it?
[01:07:31.680 -> 01:07:33.080] What if they did all the things
[01:07:33.080 -> 01:07:34.400] that all the guests have said,
[01:07:34.400 -> 01:07:35.960] but it still didn't work out for them?
[01:07:35.960 -> 01:07:37.680] Can we learn something from them?
[01:07:37.680 -> 01:07:38.920] Being a fellow Man U fan,
[01:07:38.920 -> 01:07:40.760] I'm sure you'll know about Ben Thornley,
[01:07:40.760 -> 01:07:42.240] but he was unfortunate with injuries.
[01:07:42.240 -> 01:07:44.000] Obviously he was a great player, but he was, yeah,
[01:07:44.000 -> 01:07:47.160] his career was ended with injury what if everything was there
[01:07:47.160 -> 01:07:52.040] the will the effort the intention but the circumstances didn't quite work out
[01:07:52.040 -> 01:07:55.840] should we try and decipher those cases as well and I think we absolutely should
[01:07:55.840 -> 01:08:00.800] and I think what we try and do is is still try and decipher when it didn't
[01:08:00.800 -> 01:08:26.000] work with the people who eventually did find success you know yeah definitely oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd in oed. Yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn dweud, oedd in. Yn ddod yn y swyddwr, dydyn ni ddim yn golygu bod y mlynedd o gynnig, a'r broblemau, a'r disgyblaeth
[01:08:26.000 -> 01:08:28.000] wedi bod yn ddiddorol,
[01:08:28.000 -> 01:08:30.000] neu'n wasg o amser.
[01:08:30.000 -> 01:08:32.000] Mae'n yr hyn rydych chi'n dysgu ar y ffordd
[01:08:32.000 -> 01:08:34.000] sydd yn unig yn gallanol
[01:08:34.000 -> 01:08:36.000] o ran a ydych chi'n cyrraedd eich cyfnodau
[01:08:36.000 -> 01:08:38.000] neu ddim.
[01:08:38.000 -> 01:08:40.000] Ac roedd Jo Malone yn dweud nad oes unrhyw beth yn wasg.
[01:08:40.000 -> 01:08:42.000] Ie, yn unig. Dyna'r cyfrifol iawn
[01:08:42.000 -> 01:08:44.000] o'r cyfrifol.
[01:08:44.000 -> 01:08:47.600] Rwy'n cael cyfrifol o Jo o ran yr hyn rydynna'n eithaf da o'r cyfran o'r cyfran. Fe wnaethon ni ddweud am yr hyn y byddai Jo wedi dysgu o'r
[01:08:47.600 -> 01:08:52.000] tim pan oedd wedi cael cancer y gwraig a'r profiad o hynny.
[01:08:52.000 -> 01:08:55.000] Fe wnaethon ni ddweud, dwi ddim yn newid
[01:08:55.000 -> 01:08:59.000] cael cancer y gwraig o'r profiad a'r hyn sydd wedi'i ddysgu,
[01:08:59.000 -> 01:09:03.000] yw'r hyn sydd yn ei ddefnyddio heddiw, yn ei bywyd dydd-dydd,
[01:09:03.000 -> 01:09:10.240] er mwyn iddo ddod yn ddiogel. Ac rwy'n credu bod yn bwysig yw pan fydd pobl yn clywed y podcastau she's using today in her regular day-to-day life now that she's thankfully in recovery. And I think it's important that when people listen to the podcasts, they do pay attention
[01:09:10.240 -> 01:09:13.680] to when I guess discuss the difficult times. You know people that have just listened to this
[01:09:13.680 -> 01:09:17.640] episode have heard Sol Campbell talking about the fact that he's had an amazing career and
[01:09:17.640 -> 01:09:27.360] international, he's won pretty much every trophy you can win, yet now clearly feels that frustration that he's not being given a shot at management
[01:09:27.920 -> 01:09:33.280] at a level and on an equal footing with other people. And I think it's important that we don't
[01:09:33.280 -> 01:09:37.680] just listen to these podcasts to pick out the good stuff and the wins, it's important that we
[01:09:37.680 -> 01:09:40.160] also focus on the losses and the defeats as well.
[01:09:40.160 -> 01:09:51.680] Definitely. I think a nice metaphor for this is thinking of it like a flower, where if you only Yn siŵr, rwy'n credu bod metaforaeth dda ar hyn o bryd yn meddwl amdanol fel flwyr, os edrychwch ar unig ar y gwnaeth y flwyr, felly edrych ar y petalau a'r dechrau'r de.
[01:09:51.680 -> 01:09:59.840] Nid yw hynny'n sylweddoli a yw'n ddiogelwch, ond y rhodd, y mewnghylch sy'n ymwneud â'r ardal
[01:09:59.840 -> 01:10:10.080] sy'n dweud rhywbeth am sut mae'r cymdeithas yn diogelwch. that really tells you something about how sustainable that success is. And I think that's what we're trying to get to, the roots, and look at what is the esteem element,
[01:10:10.080 -> 01:10:15.080] not just the external bits, that to me is the most fascinating part of these discussions.
[01:10:15.080 -> 01:10:19.000] And actually, when you go through all of the people that we've spoken with,
[01:10:19.000 -> 01:10:21.880] every single person has got that failure, if you think about it.
[01:10:21.880 -> 01:10:24.200] You know, Rio Ferdinand talks about losing his wife.
[01:10:24.200 -> 01:10:26.840] Anthony Middleton opened up about going to prison, Maurizio
[01:10:26.840 -> 01:10:32.720] Pochettino discussed the challenges of losing his job, Stephen Bartlett was
[01:10:32.720 -> 01:10:36.840] finding frozen pizzas to feed himself, Tom Daley obviously lost his dad at a
[01:10:36.840 -> 01:10:41.300] young age, Robin Van Percy with his children struggling, Holly Tucker with
[01:10:41.300 -> 01:10:47.600] being brave and making a big decision, Dylan Hartley leaving home. Kelly Holmes with the trauma of self-harm.
[01:10:47.600 -> 01:10:49.360] That's just from series one.
[01:10:49.360 -> 01:10:50.520] There's not a single guest,
[01:10:50.520 -> 01:10:52.520] I'm just on my phone now looking through
[01:10:52.520 -> 01:10:55.760] the sort of three and a half seasons that we've done.
[01:10:55.760 -> 01:10:57.120] I'm not sure there's a single guest
[01:10:57.120 -> 01:10:59.640] that hasn't experienced the hard stuff,
[01:10:59.640 -> 01:11:01.360] the bad stuff, the negative.
[01:11:01.360 -> 01:11:04.160] But the key is how they're reacting to that stuff.
[01:11:04.160 -> 01:11:06.000] They're not just getting knocked down by it, they're coming back for more. Definitely, and if there's one big takeaway yw'r negatif, ond y pwysig yw sut ydynt yn ymdrechu ag y pethau hynny. Nid yw'n cael eu llwysu, ond yw'n dod yn ôl i fwy.
[01:11:06.000 -> 01:11:10.000] Yn siŵr, ac os oedd un ffordd fawr i bobl ddeall hyn,
[01:11:10.000 -> 01:11:12.000] nid yw'r cyfansodd yn digwydd mewn strydion,
[01:11:12.000 -> 01:11:17.000] mae'r bwmpiau ar y ffordd, mae'r hwylion, mae'r anoddion,
[01:11:17.000 -> 01:11:20.000] lle mae pobl yn dysgu mwy am eu hunain.
[01:11:20.000 -> 01:11:23.000] Nid yw'n datblygu gweithiau, ond yn ymdrechu
[01:11:23.000 -> 01:11:27.960] y gweithiau y byddent yn eu hymdrechu i'w gael yn ôl ar y trac
[01:11:27.960 -> 01:11:31.400] a chael iddyn nhw'n ymdrechu'r ffyrdd.
[01:11:31.400 -> 01:11:33.360] Rwy'n credu mai'n gyffrous iawn o gwrs.
[01:11:33.360 -> 01:11:34.760] Ac os ydych chi'n clywed hynny
[01:11:34.760 -> 01:11:37.760] ac yn teimlo eich bod yn anodd
[01:11:37.760 -> 01:11:39.160] ac yn arwain,
[01:11:39.160 -> 01:11:41.280] dwi'n gobeithio ddim yn teimlo'r podcastau hwn
[01:11:41.280 -> 01:11:42.400] nid yn ymwneud â chi.
[01:11:42.400 -> 01:11:44.400] Rydyn ni eisiau pobl i ddod i ni, Damien,
[01:11:44.400 -> 01:11:46.000] oherwydd y rhai gwybodaethau rydyn ni'n cael
[01:11:46.000 -> 01:11:48.000] yw o bobl sy'n dweud
[01:11:48.000 -> 01:11:50.000] lockdown neu broblemau personol,
[01:11:50.000 -> 01:11:52.000] gwaith, bywyd, problemau,
[01:11:52.000 -> 01:11:54.000] beth bynnag yw, y podcastau hyn yn mynd i'w helpu
[01:11:54.000 -> 01:11:56.000] ac rydyn ni eisiau bod hynny'n ymwneud â'r cas, Damien.
[01:11:56.000 -> 01:11:58.000] Ie, ac yn enwedig,
[01:11:58.000 -> 01:12:00.000] mae yna gwybodaeth yma
[01:12:00.000 -> 01:12:02.000] o un o'n myfyrwyr, Stephen Brown.
[01:12:02.000 -> 01:12:04.000] Stephen Brown wedi rhedeg ei ffraint,
[01:12:04.000 -> 01:12:07.920] Sam, sy'n ddifrifoli rhaid i'w ffyrdd, Sam, sy'n ddifrifol am ddod o hyd ar gyfer
[01:12:07.920 -> 01:12:11.280] ddysgwyr termynol byth yn ystod y ddau flynyddoedd hwnnw.
[01:12:11.280 -> 01:12:15.280] Stephen wedi defnyddio'r ysbrydol o'r gwybodaethau
[01:12:15.280 -> 01:12:18.160] a oedd wedi'u clywed ar y podcast i gynnal ei grif, i
[01:12:18.160 -> 01:12:22.240] rannu cyfrifiadau i blant mewn
[01:12:22.240 -> 01:12:25.520] ysbytyau anodd i gael cyflwyno ar laptopau a tabletau.
[01:12:25.520 -> 01:12:32.000] Ac mae wedi bod yn ddiddorol yn credullu rhai o'r gwybodaethau sydd wedi'u clywed ar y gwasanaeth
[01:12:32.000 -> 01:12:34.880] iawn, yn enwedig y cwestiwn o ran ymwneud â'r llifydd.
[01:12:34.880 -> 01:12:38.560] Mae eisiau cyflawni eich mewngain i'w ffyrdd gan wneud rhywbeth yn ddigon tebyg.
[01:12:38.560 -> 01:12:42.240] Roedd yn ymwneud â'r ysgol gyffredinol o'r ysgol, ac mae'r cwestiwn ymwneud â'r llifydd
[01:12:42.240 -> 01:12:45.440] rydyn ni'n gofyn wedi'i hyrwyddo i fod eisiau mynd allan a gwneud
[01:12:45.440 -> 01:12:51.200] gwahaniaeth, felly rwyf eisiau rhoi sylw at Stephen ac y gwaith gwych y mae'n ei wneud.
[01:12:51.200 -> 01:12:55.680] Oh, mae hynny'n ddiddorol, ie, Stephen, ar gyfer i gyd i gyd ar y podcast High Performance,
[01:12:55.680 -> 01:13:00.720] diolch am eich perthynas, rwy'n rhoi llawer o gofyn i chi a'ch teulu, ac well gwneud yr hyn y gallwch
[01:13:00.720 -> 01:13:04.240] i ddod yn y moment hirganol i rhywbeth ddod yn ddiogel ar gyfer mwy o bobl.
[01:13:04.880 -> 01:13:08.160] Ac ar y pwynt hwn, Damien, di you so much for being involved as always. We couldn't do it
[01:13:08.160 -> 01:13:12.880] without you. Thanks, mate. Love it as always. Top man. Thanks to Will. Thanks to Hannah. Thanks to
[01:13:12.880 -> 01:13:17.680] Finn at Rethink Audio for his hard work on this podcast as well. He was especially excited because
[01:13:17.680 -> 01:13:23.040] he's an Arsenal fan, so he loved talking to Sol Campbell, as did we all. Thank you very much at
[01:13:23.040 -> 01:13:25.880] home for getting involved in the High Performance Podcast,
[01:13:25.880 -> 01:13:28.760] for being part of our family, part of our community.
[01:13:28.760 -> 01:13:30.040] Finally, thank you.
[01:13:30.040 -> 01:13:33.000] Thank you for being the energy behind this podcast
[01:13:33.000 -> 01:13:34.400] and keep on coming back for more.
[01:13:34.400 -> 01:13:36.800] We can't wait for you to enjoy another week
[01:13:36.800 -> 01:13:39.520] of great content from the High Performance Podcast.
[01:13:39.520 -> 01:13:51.340] We'll see you soon.
[01:13:51.340 -> 01:13:53.180] Attention Fred Meyer shoppers.
[01:13:53.180 -> 01:13:58.000] Did you know there's a world of innovative services and patient care right in store?
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[01:14:03.280 -> 01:14:07.440] Connect with one of our licensed pharmacists today at your local Fred Meyer and experience
[01:14:07.440 -> 01:14:10.120] the care you and your family deserve.
[01:14:10.120 -> 01:14:13.200] Fred Meyer, a world of care is in store.
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