E44 - Charlie Pierce: Finding the courage to jump

Charlie Pierce is a Music Artist Manager from London and is founder and CEO of Neverno Management Ltd, the home of artists Angaleena Presley and Grammy nominee Yola Carter. 

Prior to working in the music industry, Charlie spent the first eleven years of her career working in the financial services and made a decision in 2015 to completely shift direction and set on an entirely new path to work in the music industry. 

This is Charlie’s story and lessons from having the courage to jump. 

A big thanks to our partners Lotus Cars. Remember, you can get extended episodes of the podcast on our YouTube channel bit.ly/HPPYouTube and follow us on Instagram @highperformance.

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# Charlie Pierce: The Music Artist Manager Who Took a Leap of Faith

## Introduction

* Charlie Pierce is a Music Artist Manager and founder of Neverno Management Ltd, representing artists like Angaleena Presley and Grammy nominee Yola Carter.
* Prior to working in the music industry, Charlie spent 11 years in financial services before deciding to pursue a different path.

## Embracing Change and Taking Risks

* Charlie emphasizes the importance of having the courage to make significant life changes and pursue new passions.
* She highlights the value of listening to one's inner voice and not conforming to societal expectations.
* Charlie shares her decision to leave college due to frustration and her subsequent departure from a successful finance career due to a lack of fulfillment.

## Defining High Performance

* Charlie views high performance as committing to a goal without knowing the path ahead, embracing challenges, and persevering despite setbacks.
* She acknowledges that high performance can vary depending on individual circumstances and priorities.
* Charlie emphasizes the importance of finding a work-life balance and avoiding the pressure to conform to a specific high-performance mold.

## The Importance of Resilience

* Charlie reflects on her mental health struggles and the impact of trying to fit into an unsuitable work environment.
* She highlights the significance of recognizing one's limitations and seeking support when needed.
* Charlie discusses the importance of setting small, achievable goals to rebuild resilience and regain a sense of purpose.

## Building Resilience

* Charlie suggests setting small, achievable goals to rebuild resilience and regain a sense of purpose.
* She emphasizes the importance of self-care and taking breaks when necessary to avoid burnout.
* Charlie stresses the need to forgive oneself for setbacks and focus on progress rather than perfection.

## Managing Artists and Building Resilience

* Charlie discusses the importance of looking after artists' well-being and creating an environment that enables them to thrive.
* She highlights the need for artists to have time and space to recharge and pursue creative endeavors.
* Charlie shares how the COVID-19 pandemic provided an opportunity for Yola to take a break and focus on songwriting.

## Finding Confidence in a New Career

* Charlie reflects on her decision to pursue a career in music management despite lacking prior experience in the industry.
* She emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and recognizing one's skills and strengths.
* Charlie highlights the value of networking and building relationships in the music industry.

## Conclusion

* Charlie Pierce's story exemplifies the power of embracing change, taking risks, and pursuing one's passions.
* She emphasizes the importance of resilience, self-care, and finding a work-life balance to achieve high performance.
* Charlie's journey serves as an inspiration to those seeking fulfillment and success in their careers.

**A High-Performance Journey from Finance to Music Management: An Interview with Charlie Pierce**

**Introduction**

Charlie Pierce, a former finance professional turned music artist manager, shares her unconventional journey of pursuing her passion for music. With a background in financial services, Charlie made a bold decision to leave the corporate world and establish Neverno Management Ltd., representing artists like Angaleena Presley and Grammy nominee Yola Carter.

**The Genesis of a New Path**

Charlie's love for music had always been a constant throughout her life, but it wasn't until she had spent eleven years in finance that she decided to take the leap and follow her heart. Recognizing that her business experience could bring a unique perspective to the music industry, she set out to create a management company that would cater to the needs of talented artists.

**The Importance of Visualization and Goal Setting**

Charlie emphasizes the significance of visualization and goal setting in achieving success. She had a clear vision of reaching the Grammy Awards, not as an unattainable dream, but as a tangible objective that kept her motivated and focused. This mindset helped her navigate the challenges and obstacles that inevitably arose along the way.

**The Struggle and the Sacrifice**

Charlie candidly discusses the struggles and sacrifices she faced in pursuing her passion. She sold her house to fund her business, endured financial uncertainty, and experienced moments of self-doubt. However, she remained resilient and persistent, believing that embracing the struggle was essential for growth and ultimate success.

**The Power of Empathy and Open-Minded Optimism**

Charlie highlights the importance of empathy and emotional intelligence in her business dealings. She believes that understanding the perspectives and feelings of others is crucial for building strong relationships and fostering a supportive environment for her artists. Additionally, she emphasizes the value of open-mindedness and optimism, which allow her to embrace new opportunities and navigate the ever-changing landscape of the music industry.

**Advice for Aspiring Music Professionals**

Charlie offers valuable advice to aspiring music professionals, encouraging them to have confidence in their abilities and to persevere despite setbacks. She emphasizes the importance of finding one's unique path and utilizing past experiences to build a strong foundation for success.

**Legacy and Making a Difference**

For Charlie, legacy is about making a positive impact on the world through her daily actions. She believes in using her skills and platform to support causes she cares about, such as providing assistance during the devastating tornadoes that hit Nashville in early March.

**Conclusion**

Charlie Pierce's journey from finance to music management is an inspiring example of courage, resilience, and unwavering passion. Her story highlights the importance of taking risks, embracing challenges, and believing in oneself, even when the path ahead seems uncertain.

### Podcast Episode Summary: Charlie Pierce - Making the Leap: From Financial Services to Music Management

**Introduction:**

Charlie Pierce, a music artist manager and founder of Neverno Management Ltd., shares her journey of leaving the financial services industry to pursue a career in the music industry.

**Synopsis:**

1. **Background and Career Shift:**

- Charlie spent eleven years in financial services before deciding to make a bold career change.
- She was inspired to leave her stable job due to a desire for more fulfillment and a passion for music.

2. **Taking the Leap:**

- Charlie faced uncertainty and financial challenges during the transition.
- She relied on her savings and support from friends and family to make the leap.

3. **Finding Success in the Music Industry:**

- Charlie co-founded Neverno Management Ltd., representing artists like Angaleena Presley and Grammy nominee Yola Carter.
- She credits her success to hard work, perseverance, and a genuine love for music.

4. **Navigating Industry Challenges:**

- Charlie discusses the challenges of working in the music industry, including the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on artists and the industry as a whole.
- She emphasizes the importance of resilience and adaptability in overcoming these challenges.

5. **Legacy and Values:**

- Charlie believes in leaving a legacy of positive impact and using her platform to support charitable causes.
- She highlights the importance of looking after oneself to be able to help others effectively.

6. **Golden Rule for High-Performance Life:**

- Charlie emphasizes the importance of self-care and prioritizing one's well-being.
- She encourages individuals to recognize their needs and ensure they are taken care of in order to perform at their best and contribute to others' lives.

**Conclusion:**

Charlie Pierce's journey exemplifies the courage and determination required to pursue one's passions and make a meaningful impact in a chosen field. Her emphasis on values, self-care, and resilience serves as an inspiration for those seeking high-performance in their personal and professional lives.

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[03:02.240 -> 03:06.400] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves
[03:06.400 -> 03:10.640] into the minds of some of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs, and
[03:10.640 -> 03:14.880] artists on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to their success.
[03:14.880 -> 03:19.040] As always, Damien Hughes is alongside me and Damien, we've always been clear that we don't
[03:19.040 -> 03:22.120] want this to be a podcast about sports.
[03:22.120 -> 03:26.160] And I think today's guest is a great mix of someone who has experience of business yet podcast am y sport. Ac rwy'n credu bod y gynulliad heddiw yn mwyaf mysgol o rywun sydd yn brofiad o
[03:26.160 -> 03:27.600] busnes, ond
[03:27.600 -> 03:29.120] oedd yn ddod o'r iaith, ac mae'r ddod o'r iaith
[03:29.120 -> 03:30.560] yn thema arferol yn ein podcast,
[03:30.560 -> 03:32.560] ond yn ddod o'r iaith i ffwrdd o hynny
[03:32.560 -> 03:33.840] i sefydlu ar y carrer yn yr
[03:33.840 -> 03:35.520] diwydiant mîn, sydd
[03:35.520 -> 03:37.040] mewn rhai ffyrdd yn ddifrifol i'r sport,
[03:37.040 -> 03:37.680] mewn ffordd mae'n
[03:37.680 -> 03:39.440] cyhoeddi'r cyhoeddiad, mae'n ddod o'r iaith,
[03:39.440 -> 03:40.960] mae'n ymdrech.
[03:40.960 -> 03:42.000] Iawn, rwy'n wirioneddol
[03:42.000 -> 03:43.840] yn ddigon o'r hyn. Rwy'n hoff iaith
[03:43.840 -> 03:44.880] o'r newid,
[03:44.880 -> 03:46.980] dim ond o'r ffordd o gael y gofyn i ddweud rwy'n ar un peth penodol Yeah, I'm really excited about this. I love this idea of reinvention just some like having the courage to say
[03:47.140 -> 03:51.120] I'm on one particular pathway and I want to choose a different pathway
[03:51.120 -> 03:55.540] so I'm really excited about exploring that that leap into the unknown and
[03:56.640 -> 03:58.720] What it takes to do that, right?
[03:58.720 -> 04:04.260] Let's leap in then and understand a bit more about a lady who has bravery at the absolute heart of her decision-making
[04:04.480 -> 04:07.560] She left college because it was frustrating. She walked away from
[04:07.560 -> 04:11.000] a great career in finance because it didn't suit her. She then put her own
[04:11.000 -> 04:15.160] money and all her energy into a music talent management business with one of
[04:15.160 -> 04:19.920] her artists recently getting four Grammy nominations. Welcome to the podcast
[04:19.920 -> 04:23.440] Charlie Pierce. Charlie nice to have you with us. Thank you very much for having
[04:23.440 -> 04:30.180] me. Well it's great to great to meet you. Let's start then as we always do with the question of what is high performance
[04:30.180 -> 04:31.560] What do you consider it to be?
[04:31.560 -> 04:36.320] I've had to think quite a lot about this because and on the way here today
[04:36.320 -> 04:41.480] I really listened to the podcast with Holly Tucker because I really really enjoyed that and you know
[04:41.480 -> 04:44.160] She kicked off by saying I don't really know
[04:44.400 -> 04:51.120] really enjoyed that and you know she kicked off by saying I don't really know because I don't view myself as high a high-performance individual but I think
[04:51.120 -> 04:57.800] for me it's committing to something and dedicating yourself without knowing what
[04:57.800 -> 05:07.160] the road ahead is so you have goals you know you want to achieve something, and you don't really know or
[05:07.160 -> 05:12.000] in some ways care how you're gonna get there. You just know you're gonna make it
[05:12.000 -> 05:17.760] happen. And some days better than others. I don't buy into a high-performance life
[05:17.760 -> 05:22.840] where you have to be up at five o'clock every morning in the gym, then
[05:22.840 -> 05:26.800] meditating, you know, some days you are dragging yourself
[05:26.800 -> 05:34.640] out of your bed, but you do it. And high performance some days can just be you're up,
[05:34.640 -> 05:39.360] you're dressed, you're on your emails by the time the US are awake.
[05:41.040 -> 05:43.600] That's probably good for people to hear though, because I think sometimes
[05:44.320 -> 05:45.280] there is a pressure
[05:45.280 -> 05:46.280] to conform.
[05:46.280 -> 05:50.080] And if you're going to be a high performance individual, you have to do what everyone else
[05:50.080 -> 05:53.680] does and push yourself to the limits that they've set.
[05:53.680 -> 05:59.980] But actually, I think having a goal and finding a way to get there is surely the very definition
[05:59.980 -> 06:00.980] of high performance.
[06:00.980 -> 06:01.980] I think so.
[06:01.980 -> 06:05.960] I think that as well well it's different depending on
[06:05.960 -> 06:11.480] what your goal is and how quickly you want to get there, you can get there, what
[06:11.480 -> 06:15.360] resources you have, what's going on in the world around you, what your
[06:15.360 -> 06:19.960] environment is, you know, to say that what we thought was going to happen this year
[06:19.960 -> 06:26.480] and actually what the reality is to different universes, let alone worlds.
[06:26.960 -> 06:34.440] And it depends what is needed of you as someone that is running a business,
[06:34.440 -> 06:39.520] looking after other people, trying to be a good family member, trying to be a good
[06:39.520 -> 06:43.440] friend, that doesn't necessarily look the same every day.
[06:43.480 -> 06:49.040] And yes, it's great to have some routine, but you also have to make it work for yourself.
[06:49.040 -> 06:50.480] Like I don't get up early.
[06:50.480 -> 06:52.160] I'm not an early morning person.
[06:52.160 -> 06:56.520] It would be ridiculous of me to say, right, I'm going to, I don't know, start a rare breeds
[06:56.520 -> 07:00.640] farm or something because I know I couldn't be successful at that.
[07:00.640 -> 07:02.160] And I work a lot with America.
[07:02.160 -> 07:07.960] So, you know, often I'm still online at 10, 11 o'clock at night.dau, 11 o'c ar y nos. Dwi ddim yn meddwl hynny, rwy'n nol-iwl.
[07:07.960 -> 07:10.880] Nid fyddai'n gweithio ar gyfer pobl eraill, ond rwy'n ceisio hefyd
[07:10.880 -> 07:14.080] na'i roi fy hun ar gyfer y cymaint o bwysau lle rwy'n meddwl, oh, God,
[07:14.080 -> 07:17.000] mae pobl eraill, mae arweinwyr ffantastig,
[07:17.000 -> 07:19.360] ar-lein, ar-lein, ac maen nhw'n y gym mewn i'r gyn-dŵr
[07:19.360 -> 07:21.320] ar gael ar y 6 o'c yn y diwrnod.
[07:21.320 -> 07:23.840] Dwi'n mynd i'r ffwrdd. Mae'n marathon, nid ysbrynt.
[07:23.840 -> 07:28.320] Yr ymdrech sy'n dod allan panw i wedi edrych ar eich hanes, Charlie, yw'r sylwad o
[07:28.320 -> 07:32.880] nad ydych chi'n cael eich cael eich cael, yn cael eich cael, yw'n sgil gwirioneddol,
[07:32.880 -> 07:35.760] fel rydych chi'n teimlo'n ddangos, wedi datblygu.
[07:35.760 -> 07:38.480] O ble ddaw hynny? Felly os ydyn ni'n mynd yn ôl i'ch
[07:38.480 -> 07:41.040] dechrau, a oedd hynny'n ymdrech yno, y byddwch chi'n cael llawer o
[07:41.040 -> 07:44.560] ddiddorau eclectic? Rwy'n treulio amser hefyd
[07:44.560 -> 08:06.160] meddwl am hyn, fel rydw i wedi clyael llawer o ddiddorol bwysigrwydd. Dwi'n gobeithio fy mod i'n mynd i'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ff I think part of it is innate. I, you know, this idea of nature versus nurture, I think there is
[08:06.160 -> 08:14.560] something within me that just breeds that. I think some of that does come from my mum particularly.
[08:15.520 -> 08:19.920] She has run her own businesses, you know, she's...
[08:19.920 -> 08:20.720] Like what?
[08:20.720 -> 08:27.200] She had a catering business when my sister and I were young. So she worked in the city when I was first born.
[08:27.200 -> 08:31.760] She went back to work and my grandparents looked after me.
[08:31.760 -> 08:33.880] You know, she was like, and you know,
[08:33.880 -> 08:36.500] we're talking 30 few years ago.
[08:37.880 -> 08:40.040] And, you know, it wasn't that common then
[08:40.040 -> 08:44.400] for someone, she had me when she was slightly older
[08:44.400 -> 08:46.720] and then that wasn't working for her. She thought she was missing out, i rai, roedd hwnna'n mynd i mewn i mi pan oedd hwnna'n ychydig o'n fwy, ac yna dydyn ni ddim yn gweithio i hi.
[08:46.720 -> 08:54.320] Roedd hi'n meddwl ei fod yn rhaid i mi gael unrhyw blant a dweud, dwi ddim, dyna ddim i mi nawr.
[08:54.320 -> 08:59.040] Ac felly rwy'n credu, am ychydig o gyd, dydyn ni ddim yn gwybod yn wir i mi beth roedd hi eisiau ei wneud.
[08:59.040 -> 09:07.080] Rydyn ni'n gwybod, mae hi bob amser wedi gweithio hefyd. worked as well. Both of my parents that I can remember have always worked. We
[09:07.080 -> 09:12.840] didn't always you know have loads of money rolling around you know definitely
[09:12.840 -> 09:16.980] like you know I can remember Christmas where I asked for a pair of Dr. Martin
[09:16.980 -> 09:27.400] boots and my dad went and did overtime like I was very aware that that wasn't just something that was gonna come easy.
[09:27.400 -> 09:32.400] And so that idea that to have a comfortable life,
[09:33.280 -> 09:36.080] you need to work hard and you need to find
[09:36.080 -> 09:38.880] where your slot in the world is.
[09:38.880 -> 09:42.840] But saying that, I was probably 11 or 12 years old
[09:42.840 -> 09:45.300] and my dad and I used to watch the Grand Prix
[09:45.300 -> 09:46.720] together every week.
[09:46.720 -> 09:49.520] And I told him one weekend out the blue,
[09:49.520 -> 09:51.120] I think I want to be the first woman
[09:51.120 -> 09:53.040] to win the British Grand Prix.
[09:53.040 -> 09:55.280] I mean, what a ridiculous thing to say.
[09:55.280 -> 09:57.360] Like I'd been in a go-kart.
[09:57.360 -> 09:59.640] What was your dad's reaction to that little chat then?
[09:59.640 -> 10:02.280] He didn't say that's impossible.
[10:02.280 -> 10:07.180] No one's ever said that is ridiculous. I mean they may well
[10:07.180 -> 10:11.600] have thought it and I know for a fact that some of my friends have talked
[10:11.600 -> 10:15.720] about it and said do we need to stage an intervention? Is she alright? Has she
[10:15.720 -> 10:21.520] completely lost the plot? Or you know, but I've always had that support.
[10:21.520 -> 10:24.400] Do you know what I find interesting though is when you talk about the work ethic from
[10:24.400 -> 10:27.260] your mum and dad, that doesn't necessarily explain
[10:27.260 -> 10:31.160] fully though why you do what you do because I think you could look at your
[10:31.160 -> 10:34.760] parents and go right they work really hard and therefore they provide it
[10:34.760 -> 10:39.400] therefore I just if I find a good job I need to stick to it and you know you had
[10:39.400 -> 10:44.040] an amazing high-flying job in the city working for a huge business really
[10:44.040 -> 10:45.400] successful it would have still been an okay decision for you to go right I've high-flying job in the city, working for a huge business, really successful. It
[10:45.400 -> 10:49.080] would have still been an okay decision for you to go, right, I've found something
[10:49.080 -> 10:53.500] that pays the bills, it might not be my dream, but I remember my parents working
[10:53.500 -> 10:56.360] hard and you have to work hard to buy stuff, therefore I'm gonna stick to it.
[10:56.360 -> 11:00.240] What they taught you doesn't explain this bravery that you've got and this
[11:00.240 -> 11:04.000] ability to push past the fear. You know, we often say on this podcast, on the
[11:04.000 -> 11:06.960] other side of fear, great things await,
[11:06.960 -> 11:09.520] but for too many people, they can't get past the fear.
[11:09.520 -> 11:13.280] What decisions do you make?
[11:13.280 -> 11:18.200] How do you decide to make that brave decision?
[11:18.200 -> 11:20.420] How do you sort of wrestle with it in your mind
[11:20.420 -> 11:21.760] before you decide to do it?
[11:22.760 -> 11:24.880] I mean, I think specifically for me
[11:24.880 -> 11:26.960] in the position that I was in, yn eich meddwl cyn i chi ddechrau ei wneud? Yn ystod y sefyllfa rydw i'n ei wneud,
[11:26.960 -> 11:30.800] roeddwn i'n gweithio ar ddau sefydliadau Americanaidd.
[11:30.800 -> 11:31.960] A gaf i chi ddatganiad ar gyfer y myfyrwyr
[11:31.960 -> 11:33.280] beth roeddech chi'n ei wneud hefyd, Lyn?
[11:33.280 -> 11:34.160] Ie, yn siŵr.
[11:34.160 -> 11:38.640] Felly, pan ddod i'r ffinans,
[11:38.640 -> 11:41.840] roeddwn i'n gweithio ar gyfer gweithredu'r asiant Goldmansax,
[11:41.840 -> 11:47.920] felly rhan o sefydliadau m fwyaf, ond rwy'n gwneud
[11:47.920 -> 11:54.720] llawer o'r hyn rydw i'n ei wneud ar hyn o bryd, ond ar gyfer prodsau ffinansiol, felly rhifoedd, gysylltiad, gweithredu.
[11:54.720 -> 12:02.000] Roedd yn amgylchedd dda iawn i bobl sy'n ei gysylltu â'i gilydd, rydw i'n dweud, y gwybod, ac roedd gen i
[12:02.000 -> 12:07.880] rai profiadau dda iawn ac roeddwn i'n cwrdd â rai unigolion ddiddorol, ac roedd Damian yn clywed I would say, you know, and I had some really great experiences and I met some wonderful individuals and Damien,
[12:07.880 -> 12:11.040] I was listening to a podcast that you did the other day with this theory of
[12:11.080 -> 12:15.720] either fit in or F or the FIFO effect.
[12:15.800 -> 12:18.880] And so I really kind of got to that point. I was like,
[12:18.920 -> 12:21.800] am I going to try and fit myself in here?
[12:21.840 -> 12:27.000] Cause I feel like I don't a hundred percent fit. Nid oeddwn i'n gallu cymryd fy hun yma, oherwydd rwy'n teimlo fel na ddim yn cymryd 100%.
[12:27.000 -> 12:33.000] A dywedwch chi, roeddwn i'n gallu gwneud fy hun yn y mhobl sydd ymlaen.
[12:33.000 -> 12:36.000] A dwi ddim yn gwybod pa mor llwybr oedd hwnna'n byw.
[12:36.000 -> 12:39.000] Rwy'n credu bod rhai bobl sy'n gallu gwneud hynny, ac maen nhw'n gallu dweud,
[12:39.000 -> 12:44.000] Rwy'n mynd i wneud yr uan rhaid i mi ei wneud, rwy'n mynd i gynllunio i mewn a'n gynllunio allan,
[12:44.000 -> 12:46.960] a'r gwaith rwy'n ei wneud yw'r gwaith rwy'n ei wneud, ac dyna'r cyfnod. do the hours that I need to do, I'm going to clock in and clock out and my work is my work and that's
[12:46.960 -> 12:53.040] it. But I couldn't, that didn't marry in my mind. I wish I'd recognized that earlier because,
[12:53.680 -> 13:01.520] you know, I did end up in not a great position with my own mental health and just try and trying
[13:01.520 -> 13:06.200] to fit in, you know, I did for a while, I was really like,
[13:06.200 -> 13:07.040] I'm gonna make this happen.
[13:07.040 -> 13:09.240] And was that the cause of your mental health issues,
[13:09.240 -> 13:10.600] the workplace?
[13:10.600 -> 13:11.440] Or was this something that was,
[13:11.440 -> 13:12.480] do you think was going on anyway?
[13:12.480 -> 13:16.560] No, some and some, like I'd had a situation in the past
[13:16.560 -> 13:20.000] where, you know, I struggled with my mental health
[13:20.000 -> 13:21.880] and I'd had some therapy.
[13:21.880 -> 13:25.880] It was the outcome of not a very good relationship and work
[13:25.880 -> 13:30.440] is just, it's another relationship, right? Like there were many things that I tried
[13:30.440 -> 13:36.840] to employ from that previous assistance that I'd had in the workplace and I just
[13:36.840 -> 13:43.640] couldn't make it work. And I think it is a fantastic organisation and I had some
[13:43.640 -> 13:45.940] really, really great time there
[13:45.940 -> 13:48.660] before I kind of came to this realization.
[13:48.660 -> 13:49.860] But there will be people listening to this, Charlotte,
[13:49.860 -> 13:53.340] that are also working in fantastic organizations
[13:53.340 -> 13:56.140] and doing jobs that they enjoy
[13:56.140 -> 13:59.180] and living a life that is highly tolerable.
[13:59.180 -> 14:00.020] Yeah.
[14:00.020 -> 14:02.640] But they don't make the decision that you did,
[14:02.640 -> 14:05.760] that they still choose to turn that voice in their head down and just focus on just the grind and getting through it. dydyn nhw ddim yn gwneud y penderfyniad rydych chi wedi'i wneud, mae'n ymddangos i ddewis y gofyn yno yn y gofyn yna,
[14:05.760 -> 14:07.560] a phobl yn ymwneud â'r grin
[14:07.560 -> 14:08.560] a'i drwyddo.
[14:08.560 -> 14:10.640] Yn ymhellach o'r bobl sy'n cael
[14:10.640 -> 14:12.400] problemau iechyd mental
[14:12.400 -> 14:13.400] y gafoddwch chi,
[14:13.400 -> 14:15.520] beth oedd y gwirionedd
[14:15.520 -> 14:17.680] o gael y gofyn i fynd
[14:17.680 -> 14:18.960] i ddod i ddiddorol ddrew?
[14:18.960 -> 14:20.280] Dw i'n credu,
[14:20.280 -> 14:21.000] mewn rhai ffyrdd,
[14:21.000 -> 14:22.360] a rhai o'ch gynhyrchion cynhaethol
[14:22.360 -> 14:24.240] wedi siarad am hyn,
[14:24.240 -> 14:25.040] mae angen i chi ddod i'r gwbl cyn i chi ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychydig yn ychyd I guess in some ways, and some of your previous guests have spoken about this, you kind of,
[14:25.040 -> 14:28.240] you have to hit the bottom before you can bounce back up.
[14:28.240 -> 14:31.380] And in a way, I personally felt like
[14:31.380 -> 14:33.760] I didn't really have a lot to lose.
[14:33.760 -> 14:37.080] Like I felt a bit of a failure that I hadn't been able
[14:37.080 -> 14:42.080] to make that environment sustainable or work for me.
[14:42.280 -> 14:45.520] And so going out and doing something on my own,
[14:45.520 -> 14:49.720] I was like, well, I can't feel like this does.
[14:49.720 -> 14:51.800] So, you know, why not?
[14:51.800 -> 14:54.160] Why not just jump in?
[14:54.160 -> 14:56.440] But the answer to that is that you've got
[14:56.440 -> 14:59.640] a healthy paycheck every month.
[14:59.640 -> 15:01.240] You've got a mortgage to pay,
[15:01.240 -> 15:03.500] you've got responsibilities,
[15:03.500 -> 15:05.500] you've got a car loan that you need to pay back.
[15:05.500 -> 15:06.820] That's the reason a lot of people say,
[15:06.820 -> 15:08.300] well, why not do that?
[15:08.300 -> 15:10.020] That's the why not.
[15:10.020 -> 15:12.820] How did you override those concerns
[15:12.820 -> 15:14.980] that you were facing the same as everyone else?
[15:14.980 -> 15:17.560] I mean, I was on my own, I had a mortgage
[15:17.560 -> 15:21.220] and I had a lifestyle, certainly, that I was very used to,
[15:21.220 -> 15:24.120] that there have been periods in the last five and a half
[15:24.120 -> 15:30.440] years where it has not felt like I like the lifestyle that I had previously. You traded one for the
[15:30.440 -> 15:35.600] other but yeah we'll get on to that. Exactly I honestly don't know I think
[15:35.600 -> 15:41.680] some of it has to just be a bravery that came from within I think at the time I
[15:41.680 -> 15:48.680] certainly didn't think that and I'm not sure I really think that about myself now but...
[15:48.680 -> 15:50.680] Really? You don't think you were brave?
[15:50.680 -> 15:59.020] I don't know I think I see people around me who I view as holding a lot more
[15:59.020 -> 16:02.680] bravery than I did but maybe just in different ways you know.
[16:02.680 -> 16:05.480] See I think it's brave to be fragile.
[16:05.480 -> 16:08.360] Being fragile actually can be quite a powerful experience
[16:08.360 -> 16:11.840] because to be fragile means you are being totally honest
[16:11.840 -> 16:13.880] with yourself and you're accepting.
[16:13.880 -> 16:15.560] You've got problems, you've got issues,
[16:15.560 -> 16:19.000] you've got failings, you've got limitations.
[16:19.000 -> 16:20.360] And we look at all of those things
[16:20.360 -> 16:22.960] in modern society as negatives,
[16:22.960 -> 16:24.800] but maybe they're positives because it allows you
[16:24.800 -> 16:28.520] to stop and go, right, I'm failing at this because it's not right
[16:28.520 -> 16:36.480] for me. Right, absolutely. For a lot, a good number of months I was just trying to pick
[16:36.480 -> 16:42.680] myself back up again and you know I was seeing a therapist and working through
[16:42.680 -> 16:46.000] like why I felt that I was the failure rather than it
[16:46.000 -> 16:50.480] was a combination of factors and all of that stuff. And I, you know, one of the things when I
[16:50.480 -> 16:55.920] thought about coming and having this conversation was it would be really easy for me to just sit
[16:55.920 -> 17:01.360] here and say, oh, you know, I just had this revelation one day that that wasn't what I
[17:01.360 -> 17:05.680] wanted to do. And, you know, I had, when I was a teenager, I had thought about doing music journalism. oedd hynny ddim yr hyn rydw i eisiau ei wneud. Ac roeddwn i, pan oeddwn i'n teenager,
[17:05.680 -> 17:08.200] roeddwn i'n meddwl am wneud cyfnod o gyfrifoliaeth ffysig.
[17:08.200 -> 17:09.680] Felly roedd y cyfnod o ffysig yn rhywbeth
[17:09.680 -> 17:11.960] sy'n rhan o thema arwain.
[17:11.960 -> 17:14.040] Ond, pam mae'r sgwrs honno?
[17:14.040 -> 17:15.600] Dwi'n credu ei fod yn bwysig iawn,
[17:15.600 -> 17:16.720] ac nawr mwy na byth,
[17:16.720 -> 17:17.760] oherwydd mae llawer o bobl
[17:17.760 -> 17:21.240] sy'n gynnal eu gweithiau eu hunain,
[17:21.240 -> 17:22.840] neu sy'n mewn swydd
[17:22.840 -> 17:25.000] lle oeddent yn gallu bod yn cael eu llwyddo,
[17:25.000 -> 17:30.000] neu sy'n edrych ar y risg o'r cyflawniad, ac ystyriaethau fel hynny.
[17:30.000 -> 17:36.000] Mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn fwy agored am y ffaith bod cyfnodau yn eich bywyd,
[17:36.000 -> 17:40.000] lle gall eich iechyd meddwl ddweud ychydig o'r ddyn,
[17:40.000 -> 17:42.000] a'n ceisio ymdrechu â hynny.
[17:42.000 -> 17:46.160] Rwy'n ddewis iawn, roedd gen i ddifrifoedd gwych o ran fi.
[17:46.160 -> 17:52.160] Roeddwn i'n gallu mynd a siarad â phobl ac roedd gen i rhaglen o ddrau a staff,
[17:52.160 -> 17:57.200] ond nid yw pob un yn cael hynny, ond gobeithio drwy fod yn fwy gofynol amdano
[17:57.200 -> 18:02.400] a bod yn anodd ac yn anodd yn ei gilydd, mae'n bwysig i mi.
[18:02.400 -> 18:07.000] Felly i rywun sydd ddim yn anodd i gael cyfle i'r drau a'r cefnogaeth rydych chi'n eiwysig i mi. Felly, i unrhyw un sydd ddim yn cael cymryd gysylltiad â'r therapeu a'r cefnogaeth
[18:07.000 -> 18:11.000] rydych chi'n ei ddysgrifio, beth bynnag y byddwch chi'n dweud oedd y cyfle cynnydd
[18:11.000 -> 18:15.000] y gallai unrhyw un gysylltu o'r cyfnod honno o'ch bywyd?
[18:15.000 -> 18:21.000] Mewn rhai ffyrdd, mae'n ddiddorol, ond ceisio gwneud
[18:21.000 -> 18:25.000] rhai gollwngau fach a chael ymhellach. set yourself some small goals and get outside.
[18:27.680 -> 18:30.480] And anyone who's been in that position will say,
[18:30.480 -> 18:32.440] you know, that you wake up in the morning
[18:32.440 -> 18:34.480] and what you want to do is just pull the duvet
[18:34.480 -> 18:36.560] back over your head and disappear
[18:36.560 -> 18:39.840] and not deal with anything going on around you.
[18:39.840 -> 18:43.320] But actually just setting yourself a goal.
[18:43.320 -> 18:45.400] And, you know, with everything that's happened this year,
[18:45.400 -> 18:49.120] I could really feel myself kind of wavering in the wind.
[18:49.120 -> 18:52.640] And I was like, right, okay, I have to do something.
[18:52.640 -> 18:56.080] Like I need to do something that's for myself,
[18:56.080 -> 18:59.280] that's not a business orientated thing.
[18:59.280 -> 19:02.000] And so I did Couch to 5K for, I think,
[19:02.000 -> 19:04.540] the third time in my life.
[19:04.540 -> 19:05.680] But it's given me something where I'm like did couch to 5k for I think the first the third time in my life.
[19:13.600 -> 19:19.440] But it's given me something where I'm like that half an hour is for me and I can see myself progressing you know it is good for someone who is quite goal-orientated to know that there's a
[19:20.080 -> 19:26.240] something at the end. So what are your thoughts then on resilience and the importance of resilience?
[19:27.080 -> 19:29.080] in that period particularly I
[19:29.480 -> 19:32.520] Think it's fine to feel that
[19:33.160 -> 19:36.120] You are not always resilient
[19:36.600 -> 19:39.560] There are days where you just an interesting one because I think
[19:40.240 -> 19:46.280] We're using social media all the time and we're going, yeah, quotes and we both put them out there.
[19:46.280 -> 19:49.840] You know, you can make people almost feel bad by saying,
[19:49.840 -> 19:54.680] you be resilient, be happy, push past the resilience.
[19:54.680 -> 19:57.920] And it's almost unhealthy, I think for some people,
[19:57.920 -> 19:59.400] because it's not that easy, is it?
[19:59.400 -> 20:01.920] So to accept that sometimes you can't be resilient
[20:01.920 -> 20:03.200] and that things are too much.
[20:03.200 -> 20:09.560] And I think to give yourself a day or a weekend or whatever it is that you need
[20:09.560 -> 20:15.360] to regroup and not punish yourself for that. I've certainly felt the pressure in
[20:15.360 -> 20:20.320] the past that it's like if you're not running a hundred miles an hour the
[20:20.320 -> 20:28.280] whole time, up early, on emails the whole day. You know, I've also, since lockdown has kind of eased
[20:28.280 -> 20:30.520] a little bit, I've been going to an outdoor gym
[20:30.520 -> 20:32.160] two mornings a week.
[20:32.160 -> 20:36.800] And that time has been also really important.
[20:36.800 -> 20:40.700] But I had to really kind of allow myself to do that.
[20:40.700 -> 20:46.760] It's what many people would deem within working hours, it's not so much for me
[20:46.760 -> 20:52.640] because it's all shifted down in the day, but it would be very easy to say I'm too
[20:52.640 -> 20:58.480] busy to do that, but you have to be forgiving of yourself and you have to
[20:58.480 -> 21:05.280] you have to build resilience in order to be useful to other people. You know, I manage two
[21:05.280 -> 21:11.200] musicians. It would do them no service at all if I, this year, were to not look
[21:11.200 -> 21:15.760] after myself in the time that I need. How do you build resilience then, for people that are struggling with that?
[21:15.760 -> 21:20.520] I think it's finding the small things that you can say, okay, yeah, I set that
[21:20.520 -> 21:26.660] goal and I achieved it. And it can be the smallest anything it doesn't
[21:26.660 -> 21:32.420] have to be work orientated and in fact I think if you're running your own
[21:32.420 -> 21:37.460] business and you are struggling and feeling like you're losing some of your
[21:37.460 -> 21:42.300] resilience one of the best things that you can do is to set yourself a goal
[21:42.300 -> 21:51.680] outside of work because it 100% breeds ymwneud â'r hyn rydych chi'n ceisio ei gynhyrchu gyda'ch busnes.
[21:51.680 -> 21:57.040] Os oedd gennych y gwybodaeth hwn i rai o'r cerddoriaethwyr a rydych chi'n eu hymwneud a'ch
[21:57.040 -> 22:01.600] cefnogi, sut y byddwch chi'n ymwneud, sut y byddwch chi'n arloesu eu bod yn ymwneud â'r gwybodaeth hon?
[22:02.100 -> 22:03.560] or do you suggest they apply this advice?
[22:05.720 -> 22:09.040] Man, we all try and look after each other. Both of the artists that I look after at different times
[22:09.040 -> 22:12.240] have said to me, you need to look after yourself.
[22:12.240 -> 22:13.140] They've told you that?
[22:13.140 -> 22:18.140] Yeah, just the same as I would try and ensure
[22:18.440 -> 22:22.240] that they have things around them
[22:22.240 -> 22:25.000] that enable them to do their job.
[22:25.540 -> 22:26.840] And that's not always easy.
[22:26.840 -> 22:31.140] And it definitely hasn't been easy with Yola in the last year
[22:31.140 -> 22:36.140] because we have in some ways been victims of her success
[22:37.180 -> 22:40.160] in that there has been so much going on
[22:40.160 -> 22:43.960] and her stars risen very quickly
[22:43.960 -> 22:48.320] and at a pace where, you know, ac mae'r star hwnnw wedi'i gweithio'n gyflym iawn ac ar y cyfnod lle, rydyn ni ddim yn gobeithio
[22:48.320 -> 22:50.320] ei fod yn digwydd.
[22:50.320 -> 22:52.240] A gallaf meddwl, ar gyfer ei lwyfrgell,
[22:52.240 -> 22:54.160] bod hynny'n gynnyddio i mewn i le
[22:54.160 -> 22:56.960] lle mae'r ffasge jyntio am ymddygiad,
[22:56.960 -> 22:58.880] o'r ffordd,
[22:58.880 -> 23:00.800] os yw'r sgrwtini o'r cymdeithasau cymdeithasol,
[23:00.800 -> 23:03.840] os yw'r cyfathrebuau crifol
[23:03.840 -> 23:05.920] ar ei gynhyrch,
[23:05.920 -> 23:08.120] mae'n bwysig iawn na byd mai'r cyfan.
[23:08.120 -> 23:10.760] Felly, sut ydych chi'n gobeithio i chi gyrraedd hynny
[23:10.760 -> 23:12.560] pan ydych chi mewn bywyd o'r gwirionedd?
[23:12.560 -> 23:17.200] Rydyn ni'n dweud, a dydyn ni ddim bob amser wedi cyrraedd hynny
[23:17.200 -> 23:20.280] yn ystod y 18 mlynedd, dwy flynedd,
[23:20.280 -> 23:27.200] ond yn ceisio sicrhau bod ganddyn nhw amser i wneud y pethau but trying to ensure that she's got time to do the things that she needs time and
[23:27.200 -> 23:32.800] space to do in order to then pick back up, you know, this kind of old adage that
[23:32.800 -> 23:35.600] you have when you're working with artists that you, you know, you get paid
[23:35.600 -> 23:44.640] to do 90% of the the stuff that no one maybe sees outwardly and then it's 10%
[23:44.640 -> 23:47.760] that you're on stage for the hour and a half show that you're
[23:47.760 -> 23:52.800] doing and that's what everyone thinks you're being paid for but actually it's everything else that
[23:52.800 -> 24:05.640] needs to be needs to be done. I would say that whilst lockdown and show cancellations like it has been really really difficult and
[24:07.720 -> 24:08.880] you know our business is
[24:16.240 -> 24:16.800] Decimated I'm not sure how it will come out the other side and you know having lots of conversations about what that looks like
[24:20.120 -> 24:20.760] But you have to find the silver lining in it, right? So
[24:28.000 -> 24:29.720] Yola was desperate for a break and she wanted space and time to be able to write more and to be creative.
[24:29.720 -> 24:33.440] She talks a lot and has done in interviews previously
[24:33.440 -> 24:37.200] that the part of your brain that you use to write a song
[24:37.200 -> 24:41.360] is completely different to that which you use
[24:41.360 -> 24:49.640] if you're on a week's media run. And good luck to the people that can sit in their hotel room
[24:49.640 -> 24:54.280] after a full day of interviews and write a song.
[24:54.280 -> 24:55.880] But not everyone can do that.
[24:55.880 -> 24:59.120] And they need proper time to switch off,
[24:59.120 -> 25:02.500] just live life like a normal human being.
[25:03.480 -> 25:06.600] And she's had that and she's really thoroughly
[25:06.600 -> 25:12.200] enjoyed it and it's not what any of us probably would have chosen but her
[25:12.200 -> 25:16.740] resilience certainly has been recharged because of that.
[25:16.740 -> 25:20.280] Brilliant. What I find interesting is that we're talking about you managing
[25:20.280 -> 25:24.280] someone's life effectively not just their career and in the case of Yola and
[25:24.280 -> 25:27.720] it's obviously gone well because she had a huge impact at the Grammys and I know
[25:27.720 -> 25:31.280] you were there with her and we can talk about that in a moment but where did you
[25:31.280 -> 25:35.600] get the belief from? You went to catering college, you left because other people
[25:35.600 -> 25:39.960] didn't have the same drive as you, you end up working in finance, you leave
[25:39.960 -> 25:44.960] because you feel like a kind of square peg in a round hole. What part of you
[25:44.960 -> 25:49.040] gave you the confidence to think that you could attach yourself to an artist
[25:49.040 -> 25:53.240] like Yola and possibly know how to turn her career into the career that it's
[25:53.240 -> 25:58.800] turning into? That's a very interesting question because I didn't know Yola when
[25:58.800 -> 26:03.240] I decided what I wanted to do. I didn't know Angelina Presley who's the other
[26:03.240 -> 26:11.120] artist who I manage, but after I had left finance I had spent some time kind of regrouping. I
[26:11.120 -> 26:17.600] did a couple of like workshops and days on career change and how to sort of
[26:17.600 -> 26:22.720] manage that and I sat down one day and I just thought you know I've got all of
[26:22.720 -> 26:29.320] these skills like and I now recognize I've I've sat down and I've talked to a career coach who has helped
[26:29.320 -> 26:37.320] me to list out what it is that I can bring to a party kind of thing and I
[26:37.320 -> 26:41.160] thought you know what there must be somewhat like there's a job somewhere in
[26:41.160 -> 26:45.640] music where I can use all of this like let's... And why music
[26:45.640 -> 26:51.160] though just explain that bit. I've grown up around music like my parents are big
[26:51.160 -> 26:57.440] music fans we've always gone to concerts like you know they would for a Christmas
[26:57.440 -> 27:09.120] or a birthday present we might get concert tickets. I was a huge Oasis fan, like if someone said they liked blur in my presence,
[27:09.120 -> 27:17.280] I was like, no. And when I was at school, I went and did a week's work experience at NME.
[27:17.280 -> 27:23.040] But you know, music had continued to be a love throughout my life. And I think you've spoken
[27:23.040 -> 27:25.360] about this as well, like the Shakespeare quote
[27:25.360 -> 27:31.440] of find your passion and you'll never do a day's work in your life. And so I just thought,
[27:31.440 -> 27:37.760] I think that might be what I was meant to do. And maybe all of these years of building up
[27:37.760 -> 27:42.960] business experience is bringing me to the place where I should have been in the first place,
[27:42.160 -> 27:43.720] bringing me to the place where I should have been in the first place.
[27:43.720 -> 27:46.580] Because I've never met anyone else in music
[27:46.580 -> 27:50.440] who's got 11 years of finance experience.
[27:50.440 -> 27:53.580] I think a lot of people wish I didn't sometimes.
[27:53.580 -> 27:56.260] But yeah, I literally sat there and I thought
[27:56.260 -> 28:00.040] there must be someone doing this kind of job,
[28:00.040 -> 28:01.320] but like for Adele.
[28:01.320 -> 28:03.760] I mean, talk about aim high with your first.
[28:03.760 -> 28:06.600] But what I like is that,
[28:06.600 -> 28:08.560] and this is why I'm so pleased you're on the podcast
[28:08.560 -> 28:10.080] is that with people listening to this in jobs
[28:10.080 -> 28:11.200] they don't want to be in,
[28:11.200 -> 28:15.320] wanting, but not knowing what they can do.
[28:15.320 -> 28:18.280] And what they often do is overlook their passions
[28:18.280 -> 28:19.840] because I think, well, like that's not a job, is it?
[28:19.840 -> 28:20.880] I just love music.
[28:20.880 -> 28:22.840] I can't get a job in the music industry.
[28:22.840 -> 28:26.560] Whereas you clever enough and then resilient enough
[28:26.560 -> 28:29.200] and brave enough and hardworking enough
[28:29.200 -> 28:32.360] and risk-taking enough to go,
[28:32.360 -> 28:34.640] well, I'm just gonna make my passion my job.
[28:34.640 -> 28:37.440] And I think that's such a strong message for so many people
[28:37.440 -> 28:38.600] because there was nothing,
[28:38.600 -> 28:39.960] take this in the way it's intended,
[28:39.960 -> 28:42.080] there was nothing special about you.
[28:42.080 -> 28:45.840] You didn't have 10 million pounds in the bank to go and do
[28:45.840 -> 28:49.840] this. You didn't have amazing contacts in the music industry that no one else had. You
[28:49.840 -> 28:54.960] didn't have an opportunity that other people haven't got. You just created it.
[28:54.960 -> 29:01.800] Yeah. And I think what I tried to do was look at all of the tools that I had been given
[29:01.800 -> 29:05.000] in that experience in finance,
[29:05.000 -> 29:09.360] whether that be like, you know, the real tangible skills of,
[29:09.360 -> 29:12.800] I can read a legal agreement and pick out the bits
[29:12.800 -> 29:15.400] that I'm worried about and then talk to a lawyer about it,
[29:15.400 -> 29:17.360] can look at a spreadsheet and a budget
[29:17.360 -> 29:20.440] and see, you know, whether it's reasonable
[29:20.440 -> 29:22.400] or whether things need to be challenged.
[29:22.400 -> 29:26.560] And then I coupled that with some of the softer skills
[29:26.560 -> 29:29.800] and experience that I had like personality testing
[29:29.800 -> 29:34.800] and some of the more career development exercises
[29:35.460 -> 29:39.400] that I had been through and take all of that information
[29:39.400 -> 29:43.800] and analyze it in a way and say, where does that lead me?
[29:43.800 -> 29:50.680] And what am I passionate about? to your question earlier Jake about what was it that meant that
[29:50.680 -> 29:54.980] you weren't just I'll just stay where I am clock in and clock out I've got an
[29:54.980 -> 29:59.920] office job it's well paid like it's well respected there's nothing wrong with
[29:59.920 -> 30:10.220] that but I wasn't passionate about it. There's people out there who want to be in finance, they want to crunch numbers all day, they want to be a trader or a
[30:10.220 -> 30:14.820] hedge fund manager or work in that environment. I hadn't really ever made
[30:14.820 -> 30:19.580] that decision. I had sort of fallen into it. I didn't feel genuine in that
[30:19.580 -> 30:24.360] environment and then that started to kind of eat away at me. So I think
[30:24.360 -> 30:25.980] whatever it is that you find
[30:26.660 -> 30:30.220] Whatever passionate is you have it has to be something that you're
[30:31.220 -> 30:33.220] genuinely genuinely
[30:33.580 -> 30:37.940] Wanting to pursue not something that someone else has said to you. Oh
[30:38.720 -> 30:43.240] That would be really good for you. You need to believe in your gut
[30:43.820 -> 30:47.280] If I go and do that, if I go into music,
[30:47.280 -> 30:49.640] I know I can be successful at it.
[30:49.640 -> 30:54.700] How important is that visualization for you to believe that you're going to be a huge
[30:54.700 -> 30:59.280] success and, you know, we talk often on the podcast about what's the point thinking you're
[30:59.280 -> 31:03.560] not going to be successful. All that's going to do is create more obstacles and more problems.
[31:03.560 -> 31:08.200] So did you have a visualization of where you wanted your business and
[31:08.200 -> 31:11.900] where you wanted your artists to be in a few years time or anything?
[31:12.300 -> 31:17.700] I didn't know when it would be but I had this goal, idea.
[31:17.900 -> 31:22.300] I was like one day I will get to the Grammy Awards and that's not to
[31:22.300 -> 31:23.900] say that that is everything.
[31:24.000 -> 31:25.580] I wouldn't want to kind of give the idea that that's not to say that that is everything I wouldn't want to kind of
[31:25.580 -> 31:32.300] give the idea that that's like the only important thing because actually working
[31:32.300 -> 31:39.080] with artists who are creating art that you like getting first mixes back of
[31:39.080 -> 31:45.000] songs like there's nothing I just cannot the excitement of being part of that process
[31:45.120 -> 31:48.440] and being given the opportunity to be a part
[31:48.440 -> 31:50.880] of then enabling people to hear it.
[31:50.880 -> 31:53.320] Like that's the most important thing.
[31:53.320 -> 31:58.080] But in terms of like a goal, I'm gonna go from Goldman
[31:58.080 -> 31:59.360] and I'm gonna get to the Grammys.
[31:59.360 -> 32:01.720] I mean, it's good because it's quite some alliteration
[32:01.720 -> 32:02.560] and it's, you know, my literature.
[32:02.560 -> 32:05.120] Yeah, I like Goldman to the Grammys, I like that.
[32:05.120 -> 32:07.000] You know, it's like, it's quite satisfying.
[32:07.000 -> 32:08.480] But it's also still aiming high.
[32:08.480 -> 32:10.360] I mean, you're not saying I'm gonna go from Goldman
[32:10.360 -> 32:12.280] and manage an artist.
[32:12.280 -> 32:13.720] You're saying I'm gonna go from Goldman
[32:13.720 -> 32:16.680] to the biggest music awards on the planet.
[32:16.680 -> 32:18.680] That's a big, that's a leap.
[32:18.680 -> 32:19.500] It is.
[32:19.500 -> 32:22.040] And I think, you know, I've listened to a lot
[32:22.040 -> 32:25.680] of the sports personalities that you've had on the podcast,
[32:25.680 -> 32:30.120] and I, it's the same as someone at some point
[32:30.120 -> 32:31.980] saying, one day I'm going to get to the Olympic
[32:31.980 -> 32:35.060] Games. And that's the thing that keeps getting
[32:35.060 -> 32:37.020] them up in the morning, that day when you're
[32:37.020 -> 32:40.500] like, oh, yesterday was awful. I had a
[32:40.500 -> 32:42.920] disagreement with someone. I do not want to do
[32:42.920 -> 32:46.920] this today. If I don't, I'm not gonna get there.
[32:49.160 -> 32:51.440] As a person with a very deep voice,
[32:51.440 -> 32:54.440] I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns,
[32:54.440 -> 32:56.680] but a deep voice doesn't sell B2B
[32:56.680 -> 32:58.400] and advertising on the wrong platform
[32:58.400 -> 33:00.120] doesn't sell B2B either.
[33:00.120 -> 33:01.980] That's why if you're a B2B marketer,
[33:01.980 -> 33:03.920] you should use LinkedIn ads.
[33:03.920 -> 33:08.180] LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you reach the world's largest professional
[33:08.180 -> 33:09.180] audience.
[33:09.180 -> 33:13.300] That's right, over 70 million decision makers all in one place.
[33:13.300 -> 33:18.740] All the big wigs, then medium wigs, also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs.
[33:18.740 -> 33:20.500] Okay, that's enough about wigs.
[33:20.500 -> 33:25.000] LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[33:25.000 -> 33:32.000] So, does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest voice in the world?
[33:32.000 -> 33:34.000] Yes. Yes, it does.
[33:34.000 -> 33:38.000] Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
[33:38.000 -> 33:41.000] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
[33:41.000 -> 33:44.000] Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit.
[33:44.000 -> 33:46.940] That's LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results.
[33:46.940 -> 33:48.300] Terms and conditions apply.
[33:50.080 -> 33:51.840] Ay, mija, abuelita's on her way
[33:51.840 -> 33:53.780] and I still need to shop for the party.
[33:53.780 -> 33:56.040] No worries, let's order through Instacart.
[33:56.040 -> 33:56.880] Insta-qué?
[33:56.880 -> 33:57.720] Sí, llama.
[33:57.720 -> 33:59.040] We can order groceries and more online
[33:59.040 -> 34:01.220] and get everything delivered in as fast as an hour.
[34:01.220 -> 34:02.380] Everything for dinner?
[34:02.380 -> 34:25.600] Carne, tortillas, limas, plátanos. Claro, anything else? Just make sure the plátanos are ripe. On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you
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[35:52.960 -> 35:59.200] Additional taxes, fees and restrictions
[35:55.120 -> 36:00.680] apply. See Mint Mobile for details. I see
[35:59.200 -> 36:02.800] lots of parallels. I know you speak about
[36:00.680 -> 36:05.440] it, Jake, where when people come and ask
[36:02.800 -> 36:05.280] you how do you get into TV work?
[36:05.280 -> 36:07.000] And you say, well, why not you?
[36:07.000 -> 36:08.680] Why shouldn't it be you?
[36:08.680 -> 36:11.480] And it seems that you've come at,
[36:11.480 -> 36:13.520] from a time of personal crisis in your life,
[36:13.520 -> 36:14.960] you've said, well, why shouldn't I do this?
[36:14.960 -> 36:17.200] Why shouldn't I do that?
[36:17.200 -> 36:20.600] Absolutely, like to go kind of back to that idea
[36:20.600 -> 36:22.400] of nature versus nurture,
[36:22.400 -> 36:28.240] I think some of that is there's something within all of us where
[36:28.800 -> 36:37.840] we can do that. Like I think that there's no one who is incapable of doing that, but tapping into
[36:37.840 -> 36:46.440] it is a whole different ball game. And I had a teacher when I was at school, I was doing my A levels and it was actually
[36:46.440 -> 36:50.040] the headmaster was my English teacher.
[36:50.040 -> 36:51.880] And we went to like a parent's evening.
[36:51.880 -> 36:53.680] He said, you know, what, how are you feeling
[36:53.680 -> 36:54.700] about your grades?
[36:54.700 -> 36:56.640] Like, what do you think might happen
[36:56.640 -> 36:58.800] in your mock exams or whatever?
[36:58.800 -> 37:01.600] And I was like, C probably is realistic,
[37:01.600 -> 37:04.280] but a B if I work really hard, he said,
[37:04.280 -> 37:05.080] if you think like that, the highest you will ever achieve but a B if I work really hard, he said if you think like
[37:05.080 -> 37:11.160] that the highest you will ever achieve is a B. You will never get an A if you
[37:11.160 -> 37:15.260] right now are sitting here and telling me that the best you're gonna do is a B.
[37:15.260 -> 37:19.280] You need to think I'm gonna aim for an A and I got it.
[37:19.280 -> 37:25.760] Love it. Which is, the A is your equivalent of the Grammys then? Yeah. So what's next then? What's A star for you next?
[37:25.760 -> 37:26.600] Oh man.
[37:26.600 -> 37:30.040] I don't know.
[37:30.040 -> 37:31.200] I think.
[37:31.200 -> 37:33.360] Maybe survival in the climate.
[37:33.360 -> 37:35.760] And I think we should be really frank with people here.
[37:35.760 -> 37:37.160] Expect struggle.
[37:37.160 -> 37:38.760] I don't want people to listen to this podcast
[37:38.760 -> 37:40.240] and go, it's all right for Charlie.
[37:40.240 -> 37:41.280] She had a great job in the city.
[37:41.280 -> 37:42.180] She gave it up.
[37:42.180 -> 37:44.200] She ended up wanting to go to the Grammys with Yola
[37:44.200 -> 37:45.580] and she bloody well did. Well, that's simple. I think we should talk about the struggle. She gave it up She ended up wanting to go to the Grammys with Yola and she bloody well did all that simple
[37:45.580 -> 37:49.260] I think we should talk about the struggle. Yeah start you sold your house
[37:49.420 -> 37:55.680] Yeah to fund a business a business which I would imagine is making zero pence at the moment
[37:55.680 -> 38:01.480] Yes, the entire music industry. Yeah has shut down and that must be incredibly scary for you. It is
[38:02.580 -> 38:07.320] My house selling process was very difficult and traumatic, it was
[38:07.320 -> 38:13.000] 14 months and at one point I thought I'm gonna end up losing the house and I will
[38:13.000 -> 38:16.640] lose all of the equity in it. The only way you could set this business up was to
[38:16.640 -> 38:21.240] sell the house, were you totally dependent? Yeah, I mean I had set the
[38:21.240 -> 38:26.280] business up a little bit before that with a small amount of money that I had set the business up a little bit before that with a small amount of money
[38:26.280 -> 38:34.880] that I had but I knew that in order to play in the kind of stratosphere that I
[38:34.880 -> 38:42.080] wanted to be in I needed to be able to in some way fund myself and any business
[38:42.080 -> 38:47.640] three to five years before you are really cooking on gas and
[38:47.640 -> 38:54.160] I had worked really hard to buy that flat I absolutely loved it if I could
[38:54.160 -> 38:56.840] have picked it up anywhere in the world and taken it with me I would have done
[38:56.840 -> 39:03.560] but I also that's where all my money had sat like I'd bought it on my own and you
[39:03.560 -> 39:05.720] know I was the only one that I had to
[39:05.720 -> 39:10.080] look after and I thought right well if I if I sell it I've got some money there
[39:10.080 -> 39:15.200] that I can and I kind of needed it to sell when I made that decision rather
[39:15.200 -> 39:22.480] than 16 months later so in the interim I had borrowed money from family friends
[39:22.480 -> 39:27.280] godparents like I was racked up on credit cards, like you know I was
[39:27.280 -> 39:34.400] really all in and the day that I got an email to say that the first lady was, she was walking away
[39:34.400 -> 39:42.080] from the sale, I absolutely crumbled to the point where I came down the stairs, I was staying with
[39:42.080 -> 39:45.040] my parents and I came down the stairs and my mum thought
[39:45.040 -> 39:46.040] that someone had died.
[39:46.040 -> 39:47.640] She was like, what is wrong?
[39:47.640 -> 39:50.200] And I was inconsolable.
[39:50.200 -> 39:52.860] And that day I had to go and meet Yola's new record label
[39:52.860 -> 39:53.840] for the first time.
[39:53.840 -> 39:55.960] And I was like, how am I gonna do this?
[39:55.960 -> 39:59.960] What I just, I don't know how I'm gonna pick myself up
[39:59.960 -> 40:03.120] and have this meeting and talk about stuff,
[40:03.120 -> 40:05.320] which is really, really important.
[40:05.320 -> 40:07.080] But also in this moment,
[40:07.080 -> 40:08.700] I couldn't really care less
[40:08.700 -> 40:10.320] about what a marketing plan might look like
[40:10.320 -> 40:13.120] because I'm about to lose everything.
[40:13.120 -> 40:16.640] Like I don't know where the next mortgage payment
[40:16.640 -> 40:17.840] is gonna come from.
[40:17.840 -> 40:21.040] So we're kind of screwed at this point.
[40:21.040 -> 40:24.760] And I just, I text Yola and I text her lawyer, Luke,
[40:24.760 -> 40:25.960] who I was having the meeting with. And I just I text Yola and I text her lawyer Luke who I was having the
[40:25.960 -> 40:31.320] meeting with and I just text them and I said, please just don't ask me how I am
[40:31.320 -> 40:34.680] or what's happened I'll talk to you about it afterwards but I need to just
[40:34.680 -> 40:41.080] go in and do this meeting like and I just I had to just do my makeup. Gameface.
[40:41.080 -> 40:45.320] Absolutely gameface in the meeting and then afterwards
[40:45.320 -> 40:48.120] went for a couple of strong gin and tonics, I think.
[40:48.120 -> 40:49.400] Brilliant.
[40:49.400 -> 40:51.840] But it has been a struggle, you know.
[40:51.840 -> 40:54.320] That's important to tell people that I think, you know.
[40:54.320 -> 40:57.760] Absolutely, and this year all of that money
[40:57.760 -> 41:00.320] has been invested into my business
[41:00.320 -> 41:02.800] and kept me alive and going.
[41:02.800 -> 41:06.660] And, you know, it's a lot to travel it's very it's an
[41:06.660 -> 41:12.340] expensive industry I mean you don't have overheads in as much as like you know I
[41:12.340 -> 41:18.540] don't have a shop or stock but in order to do my job I need to be able to book
[41:18.540 -> 41:23.700] flights and stay in hotels and sustain myself away from home so it's paid for
[41:23.700 -> 41:26.920] all of that and this year was going to be the first time that I would have been a chael fy nghymryd o'r home. Felly mae'n cael pwynt ar yr holl hynny ac roedd y blynyddoedd yn mynd i fod yn y cyntaf
[41:26.920 -> 41:29.840] y byddwn wedi'n gallu pwynt rhywbeth arnaf
[41:29.840 -> 41:31.600] ac nid ydw i.
[41:31.600 -> 41:32.480] Oherwydd Covid.
[41:32.480 -> 41:33.680] Oherwydd Covid.
[41:33.680 -> 41:35.480] Rwy'n hoffi'r syniad rydych chi wedi'i ddweud am hyn
[41:35.480 -> 41:37.280] y byddwch chi a'r artistiaid yn cefnogi
[41:37.280 -> 41:38.400] ac yn cymryd eich gilydd mewn ffordd arall.
[41:38.400 -> 41:39.760] Mae'r holl byrwyr yn dweud wrthych
[41:39.760 -> 41:41.840] y byddwch chi angen cymryd amser arnoch chi yma.
[41:41.840 -> 41:43.640] Pan ddechreuwch i ddecyd
[41:43.640 -> 41:46.160] y byddwch chi'n mynd i mewn i'r diwydiant ffynedig,
[41:46.160 -> 41:47.240] rwy'n gwybod, mae'r ddweud o'r holl
[41:47.240 -> 41:48.800] y byddwch chi'n mynd i mewn i'r diwydiant ffynedig,
[41:48.800 -> 41:50.240] mae'r myfyrwyr yn dod.
[41:50.240 -> 41:52.640] Pa oedd eich gyrfa ar y
[41:52.640 -> 41:54.560] cyfnodau cyntaf o'r ffordd honno?
[41:54.560 -> 41:56.160] Mae gennym nifer o bobl wahanol
[41:56.160 -> 41:57.200] ar y ffordd,
[41:57.200 -> 42:07.020] ac rwy'n treulio'r holl amser yn ymweld â'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i'r ffordd i traveling back and forth to Nashville and there are some amazing female
[42:07.020 -> 42:13.400] leaders within the music industry there and I feel very embraced by that
[42:13.400 -> 42:17.840] community. I think some of it is you know there's not many five-foot-one tall
[42:17.840 -> 42:27.200] British ladies with a boy's name who walk into meeting rooms So you sold yourself well there. That's my USP you know. But they
[42:27.200 -> 42:33.800] continue to present themselves and you know when we were in LA in January I got a message from a
[42:33.800 -> 42:40.440] manager who I have long admired and she messaged me and said oh my god I've just seen Yola perform
[42:40.440 -> 42:46.000] can I meet you and I was like yes I'd love to sit down and have a chat with you.
[42:46.640 -> 42:54.640] She's John Legend's manager, a lady called Tai, and I would definitely say that I was kind of
[42:55.360 -> 43:04.000] needing another visionary and I'm not sure that I completely like the term mentor and maybe that's
[43:04.000 -> 43:05.080] my business background where like, you know, you had mentors, you had to meet them certain time, yn ymwneud â'r teimlad mentor, a efallai dyna fy ngwlad busnes
[43:05.080 -> 43:06.640] oedd gennych mentorau,
[43:06.640 -> 43:08.400] roedd gennych gwrthwynebu nhw
[43:08.400 -> 43:10.320] ar unrhyw amser,
[43:10.320 -> 43:11.160] ar gyfer ystod,
[43:11.160 -> 43:13.200] a'r adroddiad yn ôl.
[43:13.200 -> 43:13.840] Ond byddwn i'n dweud i chi
[43:13.840 -> 43:14.560] y ffilm yr oeddwn i'n ei gael
[43:14.560 -> 43:15.480] yn fy mhobl i'n siarad
[43:15.480 -> 43:16.920] y byddai'r cyfathrebu ffilm
[43:16.920 -> 43:18.600] yn rhywbeth fel Lord o'r Rhyng,
[43:18.600 -> 43:19.640] ond mae'n dod yn ôl
[43:19.640 -> 43:22.320] i'r cynllun o'r ffordd o'r hero,
[43:22.320 -> 43:23.200] y gwaith o'r fynywyr
[43:23.200 -> 43:24.120] Joseph Campbell,
[43:24.120 -> 43:26.720] sy'n dweud pan ddechreuwch ar newydd ddiddorol a'ch ddod o'r byd o'r ffyniad i fynd i'r fynydd o'r hir, Joseph Campbell, sy'n dweud, pan fyddwch chi'n sefydlu ar y newydd
[43:26.720 -> 43:29.680] a'ch bod chi'n mynd i'r byd o'r ffynans i fynd i'r fynnyd,
[43:29.680 -> 43:31.560] mae cymaint o leoedd i'r mhrofiad.
[43:31.560 -> 43:34.640] Mae'r leoedd fwyaf oedd y byddwch chi'n cyffrous amdano,
[43:34.640 -> 43:36.280] y byddwch chi'n meddwl bod y diwydiant ffynyddol
[43:36.280 -> 43:46.320] mewn mannau y gallwch chi'r sgiliau eich gael eu defnyddio, y leoedd o'r fyn yng nghanol, lle rydych chi mewn y stage ffyrdd o'r gwaith,
[43:46.320 -> 43:49.360] cyn i chi ddod i'r cynyddu, a'r arrifal
[43:49.360 -> 43:52.400] o'r Grammys. Ac mae'r proses hwnnw'n bob amser
[43:52.400 -> 43:54.960] yn digwydd, ac rydyn ni bob amser yng nghanol.
[43:54.960 -> 43:57.760] Ac mae hynny'n deimlo i mi fel un o'r ffynonellau
[43:57.760 -> 44:00.800] iawn i'r lle rydych chi yw, y byddwch chi'n ymwneud â'r
[44:00.800 -> 44:03.440] ffordd o'r hero i'w sefydlu ar y mhrofiadau hyn.
[44:03.440 -> 44:11.600] Yn siŵr. Ac mae hefyd yn ddepen ar in that hero's journey of setting off on these adventures. Definitely, and it also depends on what your artist is doing at any one time. So I guess in
[44:11.600 -> 44:17.600] some ways you could say that each album is like that journey, you know, you kind of, you go through
[44:17.600 -> 44:24.480] that process of setting it all up, doing the budgets, finding the producer, working with a
[44:24.480 -> 44:25.400] record label, all of that, and then you finding the producer, working with a record label,
[44:25.400 -> 44:27.280] all of that, and then you make the leap
[44:27.280 -> 44:30.560] and they go into the studio and you don't really know
[44:30.560 -> 44:32.400] as a manager what's gonna come out
[44:32.400 -> 44:34.440] at the other end all the time.
[44:34.440 -> 44:37.400] If you're just allowing that creative space,
[44:37.400 -> 44:40.760] which I think is the right thing to do,
[44:40.760 -> 44:44.440] certainly for me and the artists that I'm working with.
[44:44.440 -> 44:45.360] And then yeah you
[44:45.360 -> 44:50.080] know you then get a record at the other end of it and you have to start that
[44:50.080 -> 44:54.440] journey again. But there's a bit in the middle that's often in psychological
[44:54.440 -> 44:58.360] literature it's known as Cantor's Law there's the end of play called Ross
[44:58.360 -> 45:01.640] Cantor that says when you're in the middle of any projects it always looks
[45:01.640 -> 45:04.960] and feels like a failure because you're not far enough to get to the end but
[45:04.960 -> 45:06.840] you're too far to go back and I think the more you go through that the better y byddai'n edrych ar y ffordd a'n teimlo fel ffailio, oherwydd dydych chi ddim yn dda i gyrraedd y diwedd, ond dydych chi'n dda iawn i fynd yn ôl.
[45:06.840 -> 45:09.080] Ac rwy'n credu bod y mwy rydych chi'n mynd trwy hynny,
[45:09.080 -> 45:10.760] y mwy ddifrifol y gwnaethoch chi i'w wneud.
[45:10.760 -> 45:12.320] Ac rwy'n credu eich bod wedi mynd trwy'r ffordd hynny
[45:12.320 -> 45:13.280] yn amserau ddigon oedol,
[45:13.280 -> 45:16.240] y gwybod chi sut i ddod trwy'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd
[45:16.240 -> 45:18.040] lle mae y ddifrifol y cancer yn arwain,
[45:18.040 -> 45:20.200] ac dyna lle mae'r mwyaf o bobl yn rhoi'r cymaint.
[45:20.200 -> 45:22.160] Felly os oes un ffordd o'r gwybodaeth
[45:22.160 -> 45:24.160] y gallech chi roi i'r clywed i ddweud,
[45:24.160 -> 45:27.360] sut ydych chi'n mynd trwy'r amserau anodd ymhellach yn y ffyrdd, So if there was one bit of advice you could give to a listener to say, how do you get through those tough times in the middle?
[45:27.360 -> 45:31.680] What would you say it is based on your experience in the music industry?
[45:31.680 -> 45:35.200] I think it's probably different for different people.
[45:35.200 -> 45:38.960] I shared a quote on Instagram the other day, which is, I love it,
[45:38.960 -> 45:41.280] it's an Eleanor Roosevelt quote.
[45:41.280 -> 45:44.400] She said, being a woman is like being a teabag.
[45:44.400 -> 45:47.280] You don't know how strong you are
[45:47.280 -> 45:53.520] until you're put in hot water. And it's those moments that make you. The realization that we
[45:53.520 -> 45:59.360] were in Texas with a tour bus with a weekend of shows planned and then coming off stage and someone
[45:59.360 -> 46:05.280] going, sorry, not today. I'm working out with a tour manager
[46:05.280 -> 46:08.600] how to get everyone back to Nashville with the bus.
[46:08.600 -> 46:11.200] In those moments, it's like crisis management.
[46:11.200 -> 46:15.680] And I think that some people can be phased by that.
[46:15.680 -> 46:18.640] Other people just dig in
[46:18.640 -> 46:20.560] and you have to just get on with it.
[46:20.560 -> 46:22.200] And you're not always gonna get it right.
[46:22.200 -> 46:23.020] That's the other thing.
[46:23.020 -> 46:28.140] You have to be prepared that in those moments, like this year, always going to get it right. That's the other thing, you have to be prepared that in those moments like, and not like this year, we
[46:28.140 -> 46:33.740] won't get everything right. You know, we will have said yes to some things that
[46:33.740 -> 46:38.720] you know might have been a bit too early and we might have said no to other
[46:38.720 -> 46:44.060] things that ultimately would have paid off. You have to then regroup and say, oh
[46:44.060 -> 46:45.240] actually maybe we should have done that. How have to then regroup and say, oh actually maybe we
[46:45.240 -> 46:48.480] should have done that. How is your relationship with failure? I think you've
[46:48.480 -> 46:51.940] spoken about it on the podcast before, that's where you learn. I don't want to
[46:51.940 -> 46:56.900] be in an environment where no one will accept failure. You have to say, okay that
[46:56.900 -> 47:01.920] didn't work that time. I don't necessarily view something as a failure
[47:01.920 -> 47:05.180] that other people might view as a failure, I would...
[47:05.180 -> 47:08.480] Well if you're always learning then you by definition never fail.
[47:08.480 -> 47:12.840] It's an, exactly, it's an opportunity to say okay we're not going to do it like
[47:12.840 -> 47:15.720] that again and I'm glad that it's happened now because if it happened in
[47:15.720 -> 47:21.280] four years time it would have made a way bigger storm. So I'm glad that I had that
[47:21.280 -> 47:26.180] experience and I think yeah having the ability to say
[47:26.180 -> 47:32.240] I'm okay with that if I hadn't have felt that I had failed in finance I wouldn't
[47:32.240 -> 47:36.320] be doing what I'm doing now you know at the time yeah I mean it was awful I
[47:36.320 -> 47:41.920] wouldn't wish feeling like that on my worst enemy but now with the benefit of
[47:41.920 -> 47:45.800] hindsight I'm like well it's it's not going to be that bad
[47:45.800 -> 47:46.800] again.
[47:46.800 -> 47:47.800] Why not?
[47:47.800 -> 47:48.800] Let's go and do it.
[47:48.800 -> 47:53.040] I think that you are the epitome of a high performance life because I think that all
[47:53.040 -> 47:58.680] of the things that we talk about, whether it is taking a risk and not sitting in the
[47:58.680 -> 48:05.000] comfy chair, whether it is dealing with failure and the struggle when it comes your way,
[48:05.000 -> 48:08.000] whether it's making the leap in the first place
[48:08.000 -> 48:12.000] when the time might not feel right because the time never feels right,
[48:12.000 -> 48:18.000] whether it is taking great personal risk and selling your own house to set up a business.
[48:18.000 -> 48:22.000] All of those things are high performance, but also if your mindset is right,
[48:22.000 -> 48:25.840] all of those are things that anyone can do if they're brave enough
[48:26.480 -> 48:31.880] So do you believe that anyone can live a high-performance life? I think that
[48:32.940 -> 48:40.000] Everyone can I don't think that everyone necessarily should or would enjoy it, right?
[48:40.040 -> 48:45.040] Why what's what are the elements that they might not enjoy?
[48:46.440 -> 48:50.720] I mean, it's an unknown. It's like riding a roller coaster with a blindfold
[48:50.720 -> 48:53.200] whilst trying to spin plates.
[48:53.200 -> 48:54.040] Yeah.
[48:54.040 -> 48:54.880] Yeah.
[48:54.880 -> 48:57.320] You know, that's what you have to,
[48:57.320 -> 49:02.320] like, I spend a lot of time trying to wrangle something
[49:03.920 -> 49:08.380] that is in some ways uncontrollable. You know like
[49:08.380 -> 49:11.880] this year we had the whole year mapped out we knew we were like patting
[49:11.880 -> 49:15.460] ourselves on the back like that's obviously not going to happen now given
[49:15.460 -> 49:20.820] that you know we're not earning any money there's still loads of work to do
[49:20.820 -> 49:26.480] but if we become too focused on that and wound up in well
[49:26.480 -> 49:30.800] what's the point you know yeah what we've got to do is say right what can we
[49:30.800 -> 49:36.640] do to be ready as soon as this picks back up again how can we use the time to
[49:36.640 -> 49:42.400] best arm ourselves for that what are the things that we might be able to do and
[49:42.400 -> 49:45.800] look at which could bring in some revenue.
[49:46.360 -> 49:49.400] But we're still in the storm at the moment.
[49:50.040 -> 49:54.400] I think it is, it's important as well to take time to say, do you know what?
[49:54.400 -> 49:56.400] I am really, I'm gutted.
[49:57.080 -> 49:58.760] I'm really disappointed.
[49:58.800 -> 50:04.080] Like what was supposed to happen this year to our business hasn't happened.
[50:04.080 -> 50:08.160] And you've spoken a lot about fault versus responsibility.
[50:08.160 -> 50:10.880] Like none of this is any of our faults.
[50:10.880 -> 50:16.360] Like we couldn't have done anything any different to bring any kind of different
[50:16.440 -> 50:21.920] outcome. But actually in doing that, I felt like that's what I needed to do.
[50:21.960 -> 50:26.120] And I came out the other end and I was like, okay, it's not what it was.
[50:26.120 -> 50:26.960] I'm okay.
[50:26.960 -> 50:31.680] Like I have processed that I am disappointed
[50:31.680 -> 50:33.720] and I'm responsible for making sure
[50:33.720 -> 50:36.660] that 2020 isn't a complete write-off.
[50:36.660 -> 50:38.280] I think you are an absolute inspiration.
[50:38.280 -> 50:41.120] And I think your mindset is almost like your suit of armor.
[50:41.120 -> 50:43.960] And I think it's such a great listen for people
[50:43.960 -> 50:46.120] who perhaps for a long time have been verging
[50:46.120 -> 50:49.560] on making the leap, making the big decision,
[50:49.560 -> 50:51.120] but it doesn't feel like the time is right.
[50:51.120 -> 50:53.440] And the message from you is loud and clear.
[50:53.440 -> 50:55.000] The time will never be right.
[50:55.000 -> 50:56.480] The struggle will always be there.
[50:56.480 -> 50:58.800] The sacrifice will be never ending,
[50:58.800 -> 51:02.680] but it's better to do that than half live your life
[51:02.680 -> 51:04.300] doing something that you don't want to do.
[51:04.300 -> 51:06.800] So thank you so much for sharing with us.
[51:06.800 -> 51:09.160] We always finish with our quick fire questions.
[51:09.160 -> 51:14.160] Here we go then, the three non-negotiable behaviors that anyone who's hanging around
[51:14.160 -> 51:17.720] with Charlie Pierce has to buy into.
[51:17.720 -> 51:21.120] Number one is empathy and emotional intelligence.
[51:21.120 -> 51:26.160] Like my whole business is people, Whether it's the artists I manage,
[51:26.160 -> 51:30.320] whether it's other people within the industry. Damien you shared something on
[51:30.320 -> 51:35.400] your Instagram this morning, that really hit home about character.
[51:35.400 -> 51:41.840] The John Wodden quote. Yeah so you know your character is everything and you know I
[51:41.840 -> 51:50.400] spent a long time in an environment where I was told that perception is reality and I'm like no no like what someone else thinks of
[51:50.400 -> 51:56.040] me doesn't really matter but how I deal with other individuals and my character
[51:56.040 -> 52:07.000] and therefore the those around me is incredibly important I think relentless perseverance and ambition.
[52:07.000 -> 52:09.960] Like I don't wanna work with people who are just like,
[52:09.960 -> 52:13.440] hmm, you know, it might be all right.
[52:13.440 -> 52:14.280] It's like-
[52:14.280 -> 52:15.100] You're all in or you're not in at all.
[52:15.100 -> 52:15.940] Exactly, yeah.
[52:15.940 -> 52:17.620] You've got to be all in.
[52:19.000 -> 52:22.320] And then open-minded optimism.
[52:22.320 -> 52:24.760] What advice would you give a teenage Charlie
[52:24.760 -> 52:25.700] just starting out? I
[52:26.220 -> 52:29.140] Wish I'd had more confidence like it took me a long time
[52:30.080 -> 52:33.340] to feel comfortable in my own skin and
[52:36.260 -> 52:39.880] When I was at university I joined the officers training corps and
[52:40.400 -> 52:43.960] You know that really gave me some leadership
[52:46.620 -> 52:50.220] you know that really gave me some leadership experience that I mean otherwise I don't think I would be doing any of this because I wouldn't I just
[52:50.220 -> 52:55.700] wouldn't have been able to stand up in front of people walk into a room and
[52:55.700 -> 53:01.020] have a conversation like that so it definitely gave me some self-belief but
[53:01.020 -> 53:09.300] I think I'd also say like you know, you will find your path and it might not feel at the time that you're on the most direct route but
[53:09.300 -> 53:13.480] ultimately once you get on the right path you will have all the skills that
[53:13.480 -> 53:20.020] you need to be successful. And I'm often asked, do you ever regret doing, you know,
[53:20.020 -> 53:25.220] having your career in finance? Absolutely not. I don't want to regret anything. I
[53:25.220 -> 53:29.460] think everything that you've been through teaches you a lesson. I gained
[53:29.460 -> 53:35.120] skills that arguably other managers don't have or they have to pick up along
[53:35.120 -> 53:48.960] the way. Like you'll find your way in the end, just persevere and stick with it. How important is legacy to you? I think legacy for me is actually
[53:48.960 -> 53:54.120] what you do day to day to make a difference in the world. So you know
[53:54.120 -> 53:59.760] finding ways to use your skills or the position that you're in in order to make
[53:59.760 -> 54:07.560] a difference. So in early March I was out in Nashville and there were some really horrendous
[54:07.560 -> 54:13.440] tornadoes that hit the city and the surrounding areas and I had the sirens
[54:13.440 -> 54:17.120] go off and I was like oh he's flipping sirens like they've gone off before
[54:17.120 -> 54:20.680] while I've been there and it's been kind of a bit of a false alarm and it turns
[54:20.680 -> 54:25.560] out that it was not a false alarm and actually it was I mean
[54:25.560 -> 54:31.920] parts of the city were absolutely devastated and my friend who I was
[54:31.920 -> 54:37.480] staying with we were fine but I got a phone call from Angelina who I manage
[54:37.480 -> 54:42.240] well I think I had text her and said are you alright can you know and she called
[54:42.240 -> 54:46.720] me and said can you please come and pick me up and evacuate me
[54:46.720 -> 54:49.920] because we've got trees down, we've got no power,
[54:49.920 -> 54:53.160] she has got just over one year old,
[54:53.160 -> 54:55.800] like I need to get out and she was going to stay
[54:55.800 -> 54:58.560] with one of her band members.
[54:58.560 -> 55:02.200] And I drove over, I couldn't get within 10 blocks
[55:02.200 -> 55:05.360] of her house because of the destruction I
[55:05.360 -> 55:10.280] mean it was like like witnessing a war zone and so I got her to where she
[55:10.280 -> 55:14.920] needed to be and safety and I got back in the car and I phoned up Yola's agent
[55:14.920 -> 55:20.240] and I was like Johnny like can we do something like I know this has just
[55:20.240 -> 55:24.200] happened but like can we organize a night like there's going to be people in
[55:24.200 -> 55:27.640] town whose shows are cancelled and this that and the other can we put something
[55:27.640 -> 55:31.200] together and he was like yeah absolutely come to the office so at two o'clock
[55:31.200 -> 55:35.800] that day I arrived at his office with my laptop and we just started calling
[55:35.800 -> 55:43.080] people and seven days later we put on a show with 13, 15 artists and raised half
[55:43.080 -> 55:45.640] a million dollars. Amazing, what a story.
[55:45.640 -> 55:46.960] That's a legacy.
[55:46.960 -> 55:50.760] Right, and so I think often when people think about legacy,
[55:50.760 -> 55:53.600] it's like something that's just way down in the future
[55:53.600 -> 55:56.120] and like once I've made it
[55:56.120 -> 55:58.360] and I've been doing this for 20 years
[55:58.360 -> 55:59.800] and I can afford to, you know.
[55:59.800 -> 56:01.040] Then I'll care.
[56:01.040 -> 56:06.120] Right, then, you know, once I can afford to give 20%
[56:06.120 -> 56:09.400] of my profits to charity or whatever, like,
[56:09.400 -> 56:11.480] and I just kind of, I wanted to help.
[56:11.480 -> 56:15.120] It was that innate, like, I need to help this community
[56:15.120 -> 56:16.360] that has embraced me so much.
[56:16.360 -> 56:20.480] And it was like buying a chainsaw
[56:20.480 -> 56:23.800] and probably doing myself and others damage
[56:23.800 -> 56:27.040] is not the best thing, but we can do something else.
[56:27.040 -> 56:28.400] Like, you know.
[56:28.400 -> 56:29.240] That's amazing.
[56:29.240 -> 56:30.640] Really good.
[56:30.640 -> 56:32.040] Last question then, Charlie,
[56:32.040 -> 56:34.400] but what is your one golden rule
[56:34.400 -> 56:36.240] to live a high performance life?
[56:37.280 -> 56:40.720] Do not be afraid to look after yourself.
[56:40.720 -> 56:48.400] Like that, our tour manager with Yola Katrina she's like she's a godsend and
[56:48.400 -> 56:54.480] she always says you put on your own oxygen mask first and you cannot help
[56:54.480 -> 57:01.960] anyone else without making sure that you and that's a really hard thing to do and
[57:01.960 -> 57:06.300] I am not always successful at doing it. You know
[57:06.300 -> 57:12.300] it's quite often takes someone else to say you're right just checking you okay
[57:12.300 -> 57:18.840] but I am getting better at it and I think you know in order and that's not
[57:18.840 -> 57:30.720] to say you have to be selfish or but you do need to recognize what your needs are in order to run your business,
[57:30.720 -> 57:36.040] help other people, leave a legacy, all of those great things that we've talked about.
[57:36.040 -> 57:40.320] Thank you so much for coming and sharing with us on the podcast. It's been, it's been a
[57:40.320 -> 57:46.640] great conversation. Thank you very much. Thank you
[57:50.760 -> 57:51.460] Damien Jake, it's just a reminder. I think that there will be
[57:56.400 -> 57:59.740] So many people like Charlie who don't consider themselves to be high-performance they think that just because they haven't got a million Instagram followers or
[58:01.200 -> 58:06.000] 500 million pounds in the bank that they've somehow not been a success.
[58:06.000 -> 58:09.220] But she is testament to the fact that high performance
[58:09.220 -> 58:10.720] comes in many different guises.
[58:10.720 -> 58:11.560] Definitely.
[58:11.560 -> 58:14.520] I think what I took away from it, Jake,
[58:14.520 -> 58:16.640] was just her courage in action,
[58:16.640 -> 58:18.720] you know, her ability to back herself
[58:18.720 -> 58:21.080] and then to actually put it into action.
[58:21.080 -> 58:23.240] I think there's lots of people that have dreams
[58:23.240 -> 58:27.840] that maybe they're in jobs that they don't like or that don't give them the satisfaction. i'w rhoi i weithredaeth. Rwy'n credu bod llawer o bobl sy'n gwneud dwiadau, efallai y byddant yn gweithio y byddant ddim yn hoffi neu ddim yn rhoi'r hyfforddiant iddyn nhw, ond rwy'n credu
[58:28.480 -> 58:32.560] i ddweud y bydd Charlie wedi ysgrifennu'r hyder a oedd yn ei gyrraedd i hi fynd i rock bottom
[58:33.200 -> 58:37.440] yn y swydd gredeg y gwnaeth hi, ac yna ddefnyddio hynny fel ychydig o'r sbringbowrd i edrych ar yr
[58:37.440 -> 58:42.080] sgiliau a'r talent sydd gennydd a sut y gallai hi ddefnyddio hynny yn y byd o gynnydd
[58:42.080 -> 58:49.920] y byddai eisiau mynd i mewn. Dwi'n credu ei fod yn anhygoel i'w ysbrydoli. Rwy'n credu hefyd that in the world of music that she wanted to go into. I just found it incredibly inspiring. I also think there's a really strong message for people that to do the right thing, you don't have
[58:49.920 -> 58:54.480] to wait until doing the right thing is easy. You know, she was talking to us about the fact that
[58:54.480 -> 58:58.240] it's been a horrendous year for anyone involved in the music industry and she's, you know,
[58:58.240 -> 59:02.000] working hard to make sure she's still got a roof over her head and she wants to come out the other
[59:02.000 -> 59:07.020] side and work with her artists yet still, as said on the podcast she still wants to do the
[59:07.020 -> 59:09.880] charity stuff she still wants to do the right thing she still wants to give a
[59:09.880 -> 59:13.760] voice to people who don't have a voice and I think all too often people go yeah
[59:13.760 -> 59:17.000] yeah I'm really gonna do the charity stuff I'm really gonna have a conscience
[59:17.000 -> 59:19.840] but I'm just gonna wait till I've got five million quid in the bank and it
[59:19.840 -> 59:22.800] doesn't matter anymore yeah and I don't think we should all live like that no
[59:22.800 -> 59:26.480] definitely not there's an old saying Jake that a principle is not a principle ddim yn mwynhau i ni allu byw fel hyn. Nid, yn siŵr. Mae'r ddewis yn dweud, Jake, na fydd y pwynciau ddim yn pwynciau
[59:26.480 -> 59:28.080] pan fydd e'n costio eich pŵy.
[59:28.080 -> 59:29.360] A dwi'n credu mae hynny'n yr un
[59:29.360 -> 59:31.840] o ran yr hyn y dywedodd Charlie yno,
[59:31.840 -> 59:34.240] na fydd eich dwyf yn rhywbeth ddynol
[59:34.240 -> 59:36.480] pan fyddwch chi wedi gwneud ychydig o ddewis
[59:36.480 -> 59:37.040] ac, dwi'n gwybod,
[59:37.040 -> 59:38.640] a oedd hynny'n rannu'r flat
[59:38.640 -> 59:39.840] a oedd e'n ei ddysgrifio yno,
[59:39.840 -> 59:41.360] neu a oedd e'n gwaith y chwaraeon
[59:41.360 -> 59:42.960] a yw e'n dal i wneud,
[59:42.960 -> 59:44.400] er mwyn i'r amserau hir.
[59:44.400 -> 59:45.200] Dwi'n credu mai dyna rhywun sy'n dim ond ddewis gwych o waith a gwerth. whether it is the charity work that she's still doing, even in these straitened times, I think
[59:45.200 -> 59:48.960] it's something that is just a brilliant demonstration of values in action.
[59:48.960 -> 59:50.560] Paul Bollinger It's an interesting one that isn't it,
[59:50.560 -> 59:54.480] because it's amazing how often you see people who are keen to tell you about something amazing
[59:54.480 -> 01:00:00.400] they've done. But you kind of know that it hasn't really cost them anything if that if you know what
[01:00:00.400 -> 01:00:06.560] I'm saying. It's like, yeah, it almost feels like there are some things in life that you have to be poorer after.
[01:00:06.560 -> 01:00:08.200] And I'm not talking about financially either.
[01:00:08.200 -> 01:00:09.600] I'm talking about in every respect,
[01:00:09.600 -> 01:00:11.720] you have things that have to cost you.
[01:00:11.720 -> 01:00:12.540] Yeah, definitely.
[01:00:12.540 -> 01:00:15.720] I think, again, like a nice test that I do
[01:00:15.720 -> 01:00:18.000] when I go and work with teams,
[01:00:18.000 -> 01:00:20.600] work with leaders in businesses is I ask them
[01:00:20.600 -> 01:00:23.920] to apply the diary and the wallet test to what they do.
[01:00:23.920 -> 01:00:26.240] Where I say that, this is what you told me you stand for. Now let's have a look at how much time you invest in it a'i gofyn iddo ddefnyddio'r diwrnod yn y gwalet i'r hyn y maen nhw'n ei wneud, lle rwy'n dweud y dyma beth rydych chi wedi dweud i mi ydych chi'n
[01:00:26.240 -> 01:00:30.320] ymdrech arno. Nawr, gadewch i ni edrych ar how mae angen rydych chi'n gosod yn ei gysylltu a pha mor arian ydych chi'n
[01:00:30.320 -> 01:00:36.000] yn ymdrech ar ei gosod y valiau y dydych chi'n dweud wrthym y dydych chi'n ei wneud, oherwydd rydyn ni'n
[01:00:36.000 -> 01:00:40.800] ddiddorol nad ydyn ni'n ddilyn hypocrites, dydyn ni ddim yn ddilyn pobl sy'n dweud ni stori da ac yna ddim yn
[01:00:40.800 -> 01:00:47.000] ymdrechu, oherwydd yw'r gwasanaeth y maen nhw'nent yn ei rhoi i'w gwneud, neu'r arian y byddent yn ymwneud â'i gynhyrchu ar ôl.
[01:00:47.000 -> 01:00:50.000] Ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n wir, mewn pob aspect o'i byw,
[01:00:50.000 -> 01:00:53.000] os ydych chi'n mynd i'r tîm sport, y busnesau,
[01:00:53.000 -> 01:00:57.000] neu'n cwrdd â phobl sy'n dilyn y rhan ffyrdd eu hunain,
[01:00:57.000 -> 01:00:59.000] fel y dywedodd Charlie.
[01:00:59.000 -> 01:01:02.000] Rwy'n credu hefyd, mae'n gwrthdodwyr bwysig
[01:01:02.000 -> 01:01:04.000] i ddod â phobl i'r ffordd gyda chi.
[01:01:04.000 -> 01:01:05.240] Byddwn i'n rhoi'r stori cyflym ar gyfer pan ddewis y pandemig coronavirus I think it's also, it's an important lesson in taking people along for the journey with you. I'll give you a quick story about
[01:01:05.240 -> 01:01:08.160] when the coronavirus pandemic hit and Whisper Group,
[01:01:08.160 -> 01:01:09.880] you know, the production company that I've got,
[01:01:09.880 -> 01:01:13.080] we had to have a really hard conversation with the staff.
[01:01:13.080 -> 01:01:15.240] And I remember chatting on the phone to Sunil,
[01:01:15.240 -> 01:01:17.480] who's the CEO, and he said,
[01:01:17.480 -> 01:01:20.080] look, I'm really worried that when we say to our staff,
[01:01:20.080 -> 01:01:21.960] we need some of you to take a pay cut
[01:01:21.960 -> 01:01:24.120] so the business can survive,
[01:01:24.120 -> 01:01:25.960] that it won't be very well received. And then I had to
[01:01:25.960 -> 01:01:29.220] remind him, Zunul, before you ask them to do that, you're
[01:01:29.220 -> 01:01:31.680] going to announce to the team that for the duration of this
[01:01:31.680 -> 01:01:34.640] pandemic, you're going to take zero salary. And by the way, he
[01:01:34.640 -> 01:01:37.180] doesn't have millions of pounds in the bank, that genuinely hits
[01:01:37.180 -> 01:01:39.880] him in the pocket. But he said to the staff, every penny I
[01:01:39.880 -> 01:01:43.280] earned, I'm not going to take. And that salary is going to go
[01:01:43.280 -> 01:01:45.340] to those of you who are earning
[01:01:51.580 -> 01:01:58.620] Not a very high wage and us asking you to lower that wage is just too much if you're living in London and you won't be Able to survive so his salary went to other people and I think once you say that and he found once he said that the reaction
[01:01:58.620 -> 01:02:02.920] Of the people around him that you're also asking to to sacrifice something. It was very different
[01:02:02.920 -> 01:02:09.040] It's it's about a shared journey, right? JL Collins Definitely. I think that when people tell you what their values are,
[01:02:09.040 -> 01:02:13.600] people make a decision that if they feel in alignment with you, they then feel so much
[01:02:13.600 -> 01:02:18.000] closer to you when you behave with integrity in it. You know, I know that I've said this to you
[01:02:18.000 -> 01:02:23.040] privately on a few occasions, I think one of the things that I really admire about you, Jake, is
[01:02:23.040 -> 01:02:25.280] that you talk about being a family man, and then I see the sacrifices you do to get back home on a Un o'r pethau rydw i'n ei ddiddorol amdanoch chi, Jake, yw bod yn siarad am fod yn fynediadur,
[01:02:25.280 -> 01:02:29.280] ac yna rwy'n ei weld y pennawod y gwnaethoch chi i ddod yn ôl ar gyfer y diwrnod diwydiannol,
[01:02:29.840 -> 01:02:33.840] er mwyn eu bod yn haws i ffwrdd, wyt ti'n gwybod, ond i fod yno ar gyfer y plant
[01:02:33.840 -> 01:02:37.680] yn y diwrnod pan fyddwch chi'n dod i mewn, mae'n rhywbeth sy'n gwerthu mewn gweithredaeth.
[01:02:37.680 -> 01:02:42.640] Dweud y gwnaethoch chi fod hynny'n bwysig, ac yna mae'n costio eich amser, ac mae'n costio eich
[01:02:42.640 -> 01:02:45.440] nes i ddod yn ôl i'w fynediadur, i fod yno a demonstro'ch fel fynediadur. And then it costs you time and it costs you sleep to get back home, to be there
[01:02:45.440 -> 01:02:47.160] and demonstrate that you're a family man.
[01:02:47.160 -> 01:02:48.920] And I think it doesn't matter
[01:02:48.920 -> 01:02:50.100] whether you're talking business
[01:02:50.100 -> 01:02:52.000] or whether it's a personal domain,
[01:02:52.000 -> 01:02:54.240] these values and being really clear about them
[01:02:54.240 -> 01:02:56.700] and telling people and then asking people
[01:02:56.700 -> 01:02:58.280] to hold you to account to them
[01:02:58.280 -> 01:03:01.520] are what separate the good from the great in any environment.
[01:03:01.520 -> 01:03:03.640] And look at the leaders that have joined us on the podcast.
[01:03:03.640 -> 01:03:05.160] You know, I mean, the one that stands out for me
[01:03:05.160 -> 01:03:06.520] is Clive Woodward.
[01:03:06.520 -> 01:03:08.320] You know, when he talks about his team ship rules,
[01:03:08.320 -> 01:03:11.120] he was expected to follow the same rules as the players
[01:03:11.120 -> 01:03:12.560] that were coming up with those rules.
[01:03:12.560 -> 01:03:15.760] I just wonder how often you've gone into an elite environment
[01:03:15.760 -> 01:03:17.880] and you've worked with someone towards the top,
[01:03:17.880 -> 01:03:19.080] one of the leaders,
[01:03:19.080 -> 01:03:21.200] who's struggling to get people to buy into it.
[01:03:21.200 -> 01:03:22.960] And then you point out to them
[01:03:22.960 -> 01:03:48.720] that the things you're asking them to do, you're not doing. Yeah. Is that a common thing? It can be, yeah, certainly it can be. i'r cyfle i'w sydd gennynt yno.
[01:03:49.360 -> 01:03:54.160] Gwyddoch chi, efallai oedd y stori'n fwyaf o flwyddyn o'r coach y Prifysgol yno a oedd yn rhoi'r
[01:03:54.160 -> 01:03:58.800] cyfrifiad yn ymdrechu am y ddyluniad o'r beintli'r bach a yna yn dangos, dwy mlynedd nesaf,
[01:03:58.800 -> 01:04:03.360] yn drifo'r beintli'r bach. Felly pan fyddwch chi'n clywed y stori o rhannwyr sy'n rhannu ystafellau ysgafn,
[01:04:04.280 -> 01:04:06.640] So when you hear the story of managers losing dressing rooms, speaking to players, it's often because they,
[01:04:06.640 -> 01:04:09.360] what they say against how they behave
[01:04:09.360 -> 01:04:10.640] is fundamentally different.
[01:04:10.640 -> 01:04:14.280] And we're hardwired not to follow hypocrites.
[01:04:14.280 -> 01:04:17.480] So yeah, sometimes it does take that discreet conversation
[01:04:17.480 -> 01:04:19.960] to remind them that they're not actually living up
[01:04:19.960 -> 01:04:23.160] to the behaviors they're asking everyone else to demonstrate.
[01:04:23.160 -> 01:04:24.000] Yeah.
[01:04:24.000 -> 01:04:28.640] And you know, when you talk about people kind of living in a silo and not really aware of
[01:04:28.640 -> 01:04:32.320] what those around them are sacrificing or how those around them are living
[01:04:32.320 -> 01:04:37.640] you're totally right to sort of point that out I think because all around us
[01:04:37.640 -> 01:04:42.760] we see examples of people who kind of lack the empathy or the the emotional
[01:04:42.760 -> 01:04:46.680] intelligence to realize that no one gets to where they are.
[01:04:46.680 -> 01:04:47.880] Not a single person I've ever met
[01:04:47.880 -> 01:04:48.940] has got to where they are in their life.
[01:04:48.940 -> 01:04:49.960] It's exactly the same as you,
[01:04:49.960 -> 01:04:51.320] whether it's working on this podcast,
[01:04:51.320 -> 01:04:53.200] meeting these high-performance individuals
[01:04:53.200 -> 01:04:54.480] or going into teams.
[01:04:54.480 -> 01:04:56.160] If those people believe they're there
[01:04:56.160 -> 01:04:58.520] because it's solely down to their graft,
[01:04:58.520 -> 01:05:00.040] their hard work, their success,
[01:05:00.040 -> 01:05:01.880] their self-discipline, blah, blah, blah,
[01:05:01.880 -> 01:05:05.180] then they're removing any credibility
[01:05:05.180 -> 01:05:07.720] that they should be giving to the country they were born in,
[01:05:07.720 -> 01:05:09.720] the fact they came from a stable background,
[01:05:09.720 -> 01:05:12.360] or the fact that they just so happened to walk into a job
[01:05:12.360 -> 01:05:14.260] into at exactly the right time.
[01:05:14.260 -> 01:05:17.220] You know, you've got to be aware of everything.
[01:05:17.220 -> 01:05:18.800] We're not sort of individual, you know what I mean,
[01:05:18.800 -> 01:05:19.640] in this universe.
[01:05:19.640 -> 01:05:21.400] Everything's swirling around us.
[01:05:21.400 -> 01:05:23.000] And often without us even seeing it,
[01:05:23.000 -> 01:05:24.340] it's kind of impacting us.
[01:05:24.340 -> 01:05:25.760] And I think it's dangerous to assume,
[01:05:25.760 -> 01:05:28.000] oh yeah, it's just my own brilliance, you know?
[01:05:28.000 -> 01:05:28.840] Yeah, definitely.
[01:05:28.840 -> 01:05:31.360] I think it's like you're on a slippery slope
[01:05:31.360 -> 01:05:33.080] once you start claiming credit for everything
[01:05:33.080 -> 01:05:34.680] because by definition,
[01:05:34.680 -> 01:05:37.240] then you have to take accountability for everything as well.
[01:05:37.240 -> 01:05:39.680] And that means that when it goes wrong,
[01:05:39.680 -> 01:05:42.080] you can't make excuses, you can't point the finger,
[01:05:42.080 -> 01:05:44.600] you can't offer mitigation.
[01:05:44.600 -> 01:05:45.100] So yeah, I
[01:05:45.100 -> 01:05:49.840] think like a big phrase that we often use on the podcast is humility and
[01:05:49.840 -> 01:05:53.500] humility isn't about thinking less of yourself, it's just about thinking of
[01:05:53.500 -> 01:05:57.540] yourself less, you know, it's that idea of recognizing that other people have
[01:05:57.540 -> 01:06:02.140] played their part along the way. I'm writing that one down. Humility, not
[01:06:02.140 -> 01:06:05.620] thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less.
[01:06:05.620 -> 01:06:07.340] I love that, mate.
[01:06:07.340 -> 01:06:09.580] Look, Damian, thank you as always for joining us
[01:06:09.580 -> 01:06:12.720] on this extra episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[01:06:12.720 -> 01:06:15.740] Every single time I listen back to these interviews
[01:06:15.740 -> 01:06:17.800] that we've done, on this particular one with Charlie Pierce
[01:06:17.800 -> 01:06:20.600] we recorded a few months ago, when at that time
[01:06:20.600 -> 01:06:22.240] it was okay to all get together.
[01:06:22.240 -> 01:06:24.520] There's things that I've heard, wanted to remember
[01:06:24.520 -> 01:06:25.100] and learn, and then realized six months later when I listened to them back, that I haven't okay to all get together. There's things that I've heard, wanted to remember and learn,
[01:06:25.100 -> 01:06:26.480] and then realized six months later
[01:06:26.480 -> 01:06:27.400] when I listened to them back
[01:06:27.400 -> 01:06:28.900] that I haven't actually remembered that at all.
[01:06:28.900 -> 01:06:31.360] It kind of slips through your fingers like sand,
[01:06:31.360 -> 01:06:32.640] doesn't it, these lessons that we learn.
[01:06:32.640 -> 01:06:34.340] So I'm so pleased we get a chance to do this
[01:06:34.340 -> 01:06:35.760] and sit and listen back to them.
[01:06:35.760 -> 01:06:36.600] Yeah, it's brilliant.
[01:06:36.600 -> 01:06:37.440] It's a real privilege.
[01:06:37.440 -> 01:06:39.260] Again, people may, I hope,
[01:06:39.260 -> 01:06:41.580] pick up on the warmth that came from Charlie
[01:06:41.580 -> 01:06:42.780] when we sat down with her.
[01:06:42.780 -> 01:06:45.920] You know, she was an infectious, warm,
[01:06:45.920 -> 01:06:51.200] really engaging personality. And no ego as well. I think it's always important to remind people
[01:06:51.200 -> 01:06:57.200] it's okay to be successful at the top of your game and really nice as well. Yeah, definitely.
[01:06:57.920 -> 01:07:01.840] All right, listen, talking to nice people. Damien, thank you very much. Nice to see you.
[01:07:01.840 -> 01:07:06.220] Yeah, you too. Thanks to everyone who's been involved in this week's high-performance podcast episode
[01:07:06.220 -> 01:07:12.500] Thanks to will thanks to Hannah. Thanks to Finn at rethink audio as well for his hard work, but most of all, thanks to you
[01:07:13.360 -> 01:07:16.360] The numbers for the podcast at the moment are really incredible
[01:07:16.360 -> 01:07:19.180] We're flying up the charts and it's all to do with you guys at home
[01:07:19.260 -> 01:07:20.960] Not just listening to the podcast
[01:07:20.960 -> 01:07:22.760] but most importantly of all
[01:07:22.760 -> 01:07:25.560] Hopping on to your social media and sharing it with other people,
[01:07:25.560 -> 01:07:27.600] because I just think there's always someone
[01:07:27.600 -> 01:07:30.160] that you don't know needs to hear these podcasts,
[01:07:30.160 -> 01:07:32.960] and they do, so sharing it just might make that difference.
[01:07:32.960 -> 01:07:33.800] So thanks for that.
[01:07:33.800 -> 01:07:34.840] Thanks for the ratings.
[01:07:34.840 -> 01:07:36.240] Thanks for the reviews.
[01:07:36.240 -> 01:07:38.520] And thanks for being part of our high-performance community.
[01:07:38.520 -> 01:07:39.680] From myself, from Damian,
[01:07:39.680 -> 01:07:42.280] and everyone at the High Performance Podcast,
[01:07:42.280 -> 01:07:44.000] have a brilliant day,
[01:07:44.000 -> 01:07:46.560] and there's a new episode coming your way very soon.
[01:07:46.560 -> 01:07:47.400] See you later.
[01:07:47.400 -> 01:07:48.220] See you later.
[01:07:48.220 -> 01:07:49.060] See you later.
[01:07:49.060 -> 01:07:49.880] See you later.
[01:07:49.880 -> 01:07:50.720] See you later.
[01:07:50.720 -> 01:07:51.560] See you later.
[01:07:51.560 -> 01:07:52.380] See you later.
[01:07:52.380 -> 01:07:53.220] See you later.
[01:07:53.220 -> 01:07:54.060] See you later.
[01:07:54.060 -> 01:07:54.880] See you later.
[01:07:54.880 -> 01:07:55.720] See you later.
[01:07:55.720 -> 01:07:56.560] See you later.
[01:07:56.560 -> 01:07:57.380] See you later.
[01:07:57.380 -> 01:07:58.220] See you later.
[01:07:58.220 -> 01:07:59.060] See you later.
[01:07:59.060 -> 01:07:59.880] See you later.
[01:07:59.880 -> 01:08:00.720] See you later.
[01:08:00.720 -> 01:08:01.560] See you later.
[01:08:01.560 -> 01:08:02.380] See you later.
[01:08:02.380 -> 01:08:03.220] See you later.
[01:08:03.220 -> 01:08:04.060] See you later.
[01:08:04.060 -> 01:08:04.880] See you later.
[01:08:04.880 -> 01:08:05.720] See you later.
[01:08:05.720 -> 01:08:06.560] See you later.
[01:08:06.560 -> 01:08:07.380] See you later.
[01:08:07.380 -> 01:08:08.220] See you later.
[01:08:08.220 -> 01:08:09.080] See you later.
[01:08:09.080 -> 01:08:09.920] See you later.
[01:08:04.730 -> 01:08:06.890] Bye!