E43 - Osi Umenyiora: How small details deliver big differences

Osi Umenyiora was one of the NFL’s leading defensive ends for nearly a decade becoming an American Football icon in the process. Osi was drafted by the New York Giants in 2003 out of Troy University and spent his first 10 seasons with the franchise before signing a two-year deal with the Atlanta Falcons in 2013.

Osi played on the Giants teams that won Super Bowls XLII and XLVI. He piled up 85 sacks in his career, 75 of those with the Giants to place him fourth on the franchise's all-time list.

After retiring, Osi became an award winning broadcaster for the BBC for their NFL coverage.

A big thanks to our partners Lotus Cars. Remember, you can get extended episodes of the podcast on our YouTube channel bit.ly/HPPYouTube and follow us on Instagram @highperformance.

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### **High-Performance Mindset: Unlocking Success with Osi Umenyiora**

---

### **Introduction:**

Osi Umenyiora, a former NFL defensive end and Super Bowl champion, joins the High-Performance Podcast to share his insights on achieving success in sports and beyond. Osi emphasizes the importance of mental fortitude, preparation, and a relentless work ethic as key ingredients for high performance.

### **Key Points:**

1. **Mental Strength:**

- High performance requires mental toughness and the ability to perform under pressure.
- Osi highlights the significance of mental preparation, studying opponents, and developing strategies to gain an advantage.

2. **Preparation and Attention to Detail:**

- Osi emphasizes the value of studying game footage, analyzing opponents' tendencies, and identifying weaknesses to exploit.
- He shares an example of how he noticed a pattern in Tom Brady's pre-snap routine, which allowed his team to gain an edge.

3. **Adaptability and Cultural Awareness:**

- Osi's upbringing in diverse environments, including London, Nigeria, and the United States, taught him to adapt and learn from different cultures.
- He stresses the importance of being open-minded, willing to learn, and avoiding arrogance when entering new environments.

4. **Luck and Hard Work:**

- Osi acknowledges the role of luck in his success but emphasizes that hard work and dedication are essential for capitalizing on opportunities.
- He recounts how a chance encounter with a high school coach led to a scholarship and ultimately a career in the NFL.

5. **Work Ethic and Relentless Drive:**

- Osi attributes his success to his unwavering work ethic and determination to improve.
- He describes the countless hours spent studying game footage, training, and honing his skills to gain an edge over his opponents.

6. **Overcoming Challenges:**

- Osi reflects on the challenges he faced growing up in different countries and the adversity he encountered in his football career.
- He highlights the importance of perseverance, resilience, and maintaining a positive mindset in the face of setbacks.

7. **Importance of a Higher Power:**

- Osi discusses his belief in a higher power and how it has influenced his approach to life and football.
- He emphasizes the role of faith in providing him with strength and guidance during difficult times.

8. **The NFL Draft and Identifying Potential:**

- Osi acknowledges the challenges NFL teams face in evaluating players during the draft process.
- He emphasizes that intangibles, such as work ethic, mental toughness, and the ability to see the game differently, are often difficult to assess through traditional scouting methods.

### **Conclusion:**

Osi Umenyiora's journey to success in the NFL is a testament to the power of mental fortitude, preparation, and unwavering dedication. His emphasis on studying opponents, adapting to new environments, and maintaining a relentless work ethic provides valuable lessons for athletes and individuals seeking high performance in any field.

**Navigating the World of Formula One: A Conversation with Osi Umenyiora**

**Introduction:**

Osi Umenyiora, a former NFL defensive end and Super Bowl champion, joins the podcast to share his unique perspective on the world of Formula One racing. With his background in high-level sports, Umenyiora offers insightful comparisons between the two disciplines and delves into the intricacies of Formula One's culture, competition, and the importance of mental fortitude.

**Key Points:**

1. **The Formula One Mindset:**

- Umenyiora emphasizes the importance of a strong mindset in Formula One, akin to the mental toughness required in the NFL.
- He believes that the ability to focus, maintain composure under pressure, and handle setbacks is crucial for success in both sports.

2. **The Role of Hard Work and Natural Talent:**

- Umenyiora acknowledges that natural talent is a significant factor in Formula One, but he stresses the importance of hard work and dedication.
- He draws parallels to the NFL, where exceptional athletes often combine their natural abilities with relentless effort to achieve greatness.

3. **The Importance of a Well-Rounded Perspective:**

- Umenyiora reflects on his own upbringing and experiences outside of football, emphasizing the value of having a broad perspective beyond one's chosen field.
- He believes that exposure to different environments and challenges can contribute to a more well-rounded and successful individual.

4. **The Financial Challenges of Professional Sports:**

- Umenyiora discusses the financial struggles faced by many athletes, particularly in the NFL, where a significant portion of players experience bankruptcy within five years of retirement.
- He attributes this to a lack of financial literacy and education, highlighting the need for better financial guidance for athletes.

5. **Building Resilient Children in an Era of Privilege:**

- Umenyiora acknowledges the challenge of raising resilient children when they have not experienced significant struggles.
- He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries, allowing children to fail, and teaching them the value of hard work and perseverance.

6. **Creating a Winning Culture in Sports and Business:**

- Umenyiora reflects on the positive locker room cultures he experienced during his NFL career, where camaraderie, mutual respect, and a focus on meritocracy prevailed.
- He believes that fostering a positive and supportive environment is essential for team success, both in sports and in business.

7. **The Balance Between Hard and Soft Skills:**

- Umenyiora suggests that the ideal balance between hard skills (technical abilities) and soft skills (interpersonal skills) in a successful team is approximately 60% hard skills and 40% soft skills.
- He emphasizes the importance of finding a healthy equilibrium between the two, as an overemphasis on either can hinder overall success.

8. **The Essence of True Success:**

- Umenyiora concludes by emphasizing that true success goes beyond material achievements or accolades.
- He believes that fulfillment comes from pursuing one's passions, making a positive impact on others, and living a life of purpose and meaning.

**Overall Message:**

Osi Umenyiora's insights from his NFL career and his observations of Formula One racing provide valuable lessons on the importance of mental fortitude, hard work, and a well-rounded perspective. He highlights the challenges of raising resilient children in an era of privilege and emphasizes the significance of creating positive and supportive environments for team success. Ultimately, Umenyiora stresses that true success lies in pursuing one's passions, making a positive impact, and living a life of purpose and meaning.

# Osi Umenyiora: High Performance Podcast Transcript Summary

## Introduction

* Osi Umenyiora, a former NFL defensive end, shares his insights on success, mindset, and overcoming challenges.
* Umenyiora emphasizes the importance of recognizing luck and embracing setbacks as learning experiences.
* He highlights the value of humility, taking responsibility, and treating others with respect.

## Key Points

### Embracing Luck and Setbacks:

* Umenyiora acknowledges the role of luck in his success, attributing some of his achievements to being in the right place at the right time.
* He views setbacks not as failures but as opportunities for growth and learning.
* Instead of dwelling on negative outcomes, he focuses on extracting lessons and improving for the future.

### Humility and Taking Responsibility:

* Umenyiora stresses the significance of humility in maintaining a grounded perspective.
* He believes that recognizing one's own limitations and shortcomings prevents arrogance and promotes continuous improvement.
* Umenyiora emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility for both successes and failures, avoiding excuses and blaming others.

### Treating Others with Respect:

* Umenyiora considers treating others with respect as a non-negotiable behavior, both on and off the field.
* He believes that demeaning or disrespectful behavior towards others is unacceptable and detrimental to team dynamics.
* Umenyiora advocates for holding oneself and others accountable for their actions and promoting a culture of mutual respect.

### Advice for Young Athletes:

* Umenyiora advises young athletes to relax and enjoy the journey, rather than being overly focused on achieving immediate results.
* He encourages them to learn from their mistakes and failures, using them as opportunities for growth.
* Umenyiora emphasizes the importance of staying humble, working hard, and treating others with respect.

## Conclusion

* Umenyiora's emphasis on luck, humility, taking responsibility, and treating others with respect provides valuable insights for achieving success in any field.
* His message resonates with listeners, inspiring them to embrace challenges, learn from setbacks, and strive for continuous improvement.

# High Performance: Mindset and Behavior

## Introduction

* Osi Umenyiora, a former NFL defensive end, had a successful 10-year career with the New York Giants, winning two Super Bowls.
* After retiring, Osi became an award-wining broadcaster for the BBC's NFL coverage.
* The episode's focus is on the importance of having a growth mindset and being open to different viewpoints.

## Key Points

### Growth Mindset vs. Fixed Mindset

* A growth mindset is one that embraces challenges, seeks feedback, and is open to learning from mistakes.
* A fixed mindset is one that sees intelligence and abilities as fixed traits that cannot be changed.
* People with a growth mindset are more likely to succeed in life because they are more resilient and adaptable.

### The Importance of Empathy

* Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person.
* It is a key component of effective communication and relationships.
* People who are empathetic are more likely to be successful in their personal and professional lives.

### The Dangers of Groupthink

* Groupthink is a phenomenon that occurs when people in a group suppress their individual thoughts and opinions in order to conform to the group's norm.
* Groupthink can lead to poor decision-making and can be dangerous in high-stakes situations.
* It is important to encourage open dialogue and debate in order to avoid groupthink.

### The Value of Diversity

* Diversity is the presence of different types of people in a group or organization.
* Diversity can lead to better decision-making, innovation, and creativity.
* Organizations that value diversity are more likely to be successful in the long run.

## Conclusion

* The episode concludes with a discussion of the importance of having a growth mindset, being empathetic, and valuing diversity.
* These are all essential qualities for individuals and organizations that want to succeed in today's complex and interconnected world.

[00:00.000 -> 00:05.880] Hi there, welcome along to this week's high performance podcast. I'm so glad that you've
[00:05.880 -> 00:10.080] joined us maybe for the first time, or maybe you're coming back for more inspiration, more
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[03:36.660 -> 03:39.760] It's time for this week's high performance podcast
[03:43.240 -> 03:47.720] Hi, I'm Jay Comfrey you're listening listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves into
[03:47.720 -> 03:52.240] the minds of some of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs, and artists on
[03:52.240 -> 03:57.840] the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to their success. Now, everyone needs a professor
[03:57.840 -> 04:03.520] in their life and mine is also an author and an expert in the success of sporting cultures,
[04:03.520 -> 04:11.000] Damien Hughes. And Damien, I guess'n credu ei fod yn gwybod beth mae'n rhaid i'w gynllunio i weithredu mewn y sefyllfa brutal ond cyflogol
[04:11.000 -> 04:16.000] ac yna gynhyrchu mwy o awyriadau nawr fel pwndyd ar ein sgrinau TV yma yn y DU.
[04:16.000 -> 04:20.000] Mae'n gyfrinol fod yn gyfrinol fod yn gyfrinol ei fod wedi'i wneud yn amlwg.
[04:20.000 -> 04:25.440] Ie, rwy'n credu un o'r pethau sy'n fy nghyffro ar hyn yw, un, y transiwn. I think one of the things that's really intriguing me on this is one, the transition.
[04:25.440 -> 04:29.780] I think I guess today, his life has been about transition.
[04:29.780 -> 04:34.680] So somebody that's been able to move from culture to culture to environments and be
[04:34.680 -> 04:35.680] successful in each.
[04:35.680 -> 04:37.760] And that's something I'm really intrigued to explore.
[04:37.760 -> 04:42.020] Well, let's welcome along to the podcast a man who has won two Super Bowls, but looking
[04:42.020 -> 04:44.960] at his hands, he does not walk around London wearing the rings.
[04:44.960 -> 04:46.800] I don't blame him.
[04:46.800 -> 04:49.680] Welcome to the High Performance Podcast, Osiu Minora.
[04:49.680 -> 04:50.480] Thank you guys, man.
[04:50.480 -> 04:52.160] I appreciate you guys having me here.
[04:52.160 -> 04:53.360] It's good to have you with us.
[04:53.360 -> 04:54.960] It's always the first question on this pod.
[04:55.760 -> 04:57.680] What is high performance?
[04:58.320 -> 04:59.200] That's a good one.
[04:59.840 -> 05:02.240] I think high performance is being able to
[05:03.600 -> 05:05.680] perform under any circumstance. I think that's the most important part of high performance is being able to perform under any circumstance.
[05:05.680 -> 05:08.480] I think that's the most important part of high performance
[05:08.480 -> 05:12.140] because being able to perform in one instance
[05:13.140 -> 05:13.980] is hard enough,
[05:13.980 -> 05:15.920] but being able to perform in multiple instances,
[05:15.920 -> 05:17.840] no matter what the situation is,
[05:17.840 -> 05:21.000] I think is something that eludes most of us.
[05:21.000 -> 05:23.880] I think that would be my definition of high performance,
[05:23.880 -> 05:25.200] performing at a high level
[05:29.720 -> 05:30.600] No matter what circumstance you're in. Well, let's talk then about your performing at a high level
[05:36.280 -> 05:37.000] Specifically winning the Super Bowl. I'm really interested to either understand whether you relied solely on
[05:42.200 -> 05:42.520] Athletic ability or whether you had mental tricks that you would perform ahead of a big game
[05:44.880 -> 05:45.080] That would make sure that you were on the winning team?
[05:45.080 -> 05:46.080] Oh, 100%.
[05:46.080 -> 05:51.360] For me specifically, it was mostly mental.
[05:51.360 -> 05:58.000] You get to the NFL or if you're in America or even here, you realize that there are tremendous
[05:58.000 -> 05:59.000] athletes.
[05:59.000 -> 06:04.720] I mean, people who are better than you athletically in every way.
[06:04.720 -> 06:07.360] And so if you're going to be able to perform at a better
[06:07.360 -> 06:10.840] level than them, then the trick really was up here.
[06:10.840 -> 06:14.400] So for me, I knew that, you know, I was pretty athletic,
[06:14.400 -> 06:16.000] but there were people who were bigger,
[06:16.000 -> 06:17.200] stronger and faster than me.
[06:17.200 -> 06:20.880] So I had to do things in a different way, if you may.
[06:20.880 -> 06:24.200] And so I had to start to learn the tricks and trades
[06:24.200 -> 06:25.360] of playing football.
[06:25.360 -> 06:30.320] So for instance, I would look at things, I would study tape for five, six hours a day
[06:30.320 -> 06:33.240] to see if I could get an advantage on my opponent.
[06:33.240 -> 06:37.440] I wanted to know how he put his leg.
[06:37.440 -> 06:40.080] And that would give me a tip on to what move I would make against him.
[06:40.080 -> 06:42.120] I wanted to know what the quarterback was doing.
[06:42.120 -> 06:46.000] Sometimes I would get the game copy of an opponent
[06:46.000 -> 06:48.280] that we're playing and I would put it in
[06:48.280 -> 06:50.000] and I would turn the volume up real loud
[06:50.000 -> 06:52.800] because now the quarterbacks, they wear microphones.
[06:52.800 -> 06:54.800] And so if you turn the volume up loud enough,
[06:54.800 -> 06:56.540] you could actually hear what they were saying.
[06:56.540 -> 06:58.640] So I would sit there with the volume all the way up,
[06:58.640 -> 07:02.200] listening to see if I could pick up anything
[07:02.200 -> 07:03.580] as to what the quarterback was saying
[07:03.580 -> 07:06.240] that would give me an advantage when I was playing.
[07:06.240 -> 07:08.340] I wanted to know what the snap count was,
[07:08.340 -> 07:09.720] when they were gonna snap the ball.
[07:09.720 -> 07:11.340] And so you had to sit there and study.
[07:11.340 -> 07:12.680] I would look at the quarterback's hands.
[07:12.680 -> 07:14.420] I would look at the quarterback's feet.
[07:14.420 -> 07:16.800] I would look at the coach's mannerisms.
[07:16.800 -> 07:19.300] It was literally one of a thousand things
[07:19.300 -> 07:21.920] that you had to sit there and study
[07:21.920 -> 07:24.780] because if everybody's on the same level athletically,
[07:24.780 -> 07:26.440] then if you want to be an elite player,
[07:26.440 -> 07:28.560] then you have to do something different.
[07:28.560 -> 07:29.560] And what was that?
[07:29.560 -> 07:32.440] For me, it was mentally, I was going to out-study
[07:32.440 -> 07:34.080] and out-work my opponent.
[07:34.080 -> 07:35.600] And I think that's what gave me the edge
[07:35.600 -> 07:37.200] in a lot of games that I played.
[07:37.200 -> 07:38.400] So when you're in the locker room
[07:38.400 -> 07:40.520] and you're five minutes from the biggest game
[07:40.520 -> 07:42.320] of your career or of your season,
[07:43.320 -> 07:46.040] how much did all the extra work you knew you'd done
[07:46.040 -> 07:49.240] quietly at home away from the spotlight,
[07:49.240 -> 07:53.080] how much did that give you that mental confidence
[07:53.080 -> 07:54.520] that everything was going to be okay?
[07:54.520 -> 07:56.240] Oh, tremendous, tremendously.
[07:56.240 -> 07:58.200] I think the Super Bowl, for instance,
[07:58.200 -> 08:01.840] we're playing against, the first one we won was 2007.
[08:01.840 -> 08:03.360] We're playing against the New England Patriots,
[08:03.360 -> 08:06.800] Tom Brady, greatest quarterback ever, supposedly.
[08:06.800 -> 08:11.440] And, you know, they were undefeated.
[08:11.440 -> 08:12.680] They hadn't lost a game that year.
[08:12.680 -> 08:17.900] They were on their way to being the greatest football team in history.
[08:17.900 -> 08:23.360] But as I was watching the tape, this was because you have two weeks leading up to the game.
[08:23.360 -> 08:25.320] As I was watching the tape, I noticed that
[08:30.380 -> 08:32.380] Tom Brady, he would come up to the line of scrimmage and this is this is real information I'm giving you here worth millions of dollars.
[08:32.380 -> 08:32.880] Love it, love it.
[08:32.880 -> 08:33.380] I'm giving it to you right here.
[08:33.380 -> 08:36.380] I hope there's people recording this to pass it on to their players.
[08:36.380 -> 08:40.680] Yeah, but what I noticed was he would come up to the line of scrimmage and
[08:41.440 -> 08:44.480] he would, you know, say hot, hot, which is telling the
[08:42.520 -> 08:45.280] scrimmage and he would, you know, say, hot, hot, which is telling the
[08:45.280 -> 08:46.560] senator to snap him the ball.
[08:47.160 -> 08:48.960] So what he was doing was he would come
[08:48.960 -> 08:49.920] up to the line of scrimmage.
[08:49.920 -> 08:51.320] And before he said that, he was
[08:51.320 -> 08:53.680] pointing at somebody.
[08:54.400 -> 08:56.320] Maybe it was like somebody on our
[08:56.400 -> 08:58.040] on the opposing side.
[08:58.480 -> 09:00.920] And he would point at that person.
[09:01.440 -> 09:03.680] And if he didn't point at that person,
[09:03.920 -> 09:05.880] that means they weren't going to snap the ball. But if he didn't point at that person, that means they weren't going
[09:05.880 -> 09:10.120] to snap the ball. But if he did point at that person, the ball was coming as soon as he
[09:10.120 -> 09:13.960] said, all right. So after I watched this, I studied this for literally a week and I
[09:13.960 -> 09:17.700] went back, I watched all the games and he was doing the exact same thing, but nobody
[09:17.700 -> 09:22.680] had figured it out. So I saw that and I went and I grabbed it all the whole defense. And
[09:22.680 -> 09:25.400] I was like, listen, this is what this man is doing.
[09:25.400 -> 09:27.480] And if you know when the ball is being snapped
[09:27.480 -> 09:28.480] as a defensive line,
[09:28.480 -> 09:30.160] if you know when that ball is being snapped,
[09:30.160 -> 09:32.960] you are at a tremendous advantage
[09:32.960 -> 09:34.040] over the offensive linemen
[09:34.040 -> 09:36.160] because they're relying on you not knowing.
[09:36.160 -> 09:38.000] Because if you don't know,
[09:38.000 -> 09:39.120] that means you're gonna be late.
[09:39.120 -> 09:39.940] But if you do know,
[09:39.940 -> 09:41.960] you're gonna beat them almost every time.
[09:41.960 -> 09:43.280] And so as soon as I figured this out,
[09:43.280 -> 09:44.640] I gathered the whole defensive line.
[09:44.640 -> 09:47.840] I was like, listen, this is what Tom Brady's doing.
[09:47.840 -> 09:49.440] Now we all started to watch this together
[09:49.440 -> 09:51.040] and we saw this was 100%.
[09:51.040 -> 09:53.960] It wasn't even, you know, it wasn't even like 80,
[09:53.960 -> 09:55.200] not, this was 100%.
[09:55.200 -> 09:57.040] So now we knew going into that game
[09:57.040 -> 09:59.000] that as a defensive line,
[09:59.000 -> 10:01.720] we were going to be able to overwhelm them offensively
[10:01.720 -> 10:04.960] simply because of that one thing that I had pointed out.
[10:04.960 -> 10:06.540] And we went into the game and
[10:06.900 -> 10:12.220] We sacked him like five times hit him like 20 times. They couldn't understand how we were
[10:12.960 -> 10:16.240] Getting off the ball and getting to him that fast and it was simply because
[10:16.980 -> 10:18.240] For two weeks prior
[10:18.240 -> 10:24.020] I just sat there and I had to watch what this one person was doing and that gave us the mental advantage going into the
[10:24.020 -> 10:25.480] game we knew we were going to win that game,
[10:25.480 -> 10:26.960] even though nobody else did,
[10:26.960 -> 10:29.440] because we knew something that they didn't know
[10:29.440 -> 10:30.960] and nobody else knew that we knew.
[10:30.960 -> 10:32.520] So being a people watcher then,
[10:32.520 -> 10:34.720] it sounds very much like the skill
[10:34.720 -> 10:35.880] you're describing there, Ossie,
[10:35.880 -> 10:38.280] but I'm interested in going further back
[10:38.280 -> 10:40.920] to you, a kid that grew up in London,
[10:40.920 -> 10:42.200] and then at seven years old,
[10:42.200 -> 10:45.200] you make that transition of going out to Nigeria
[10:45.200 -> 10:47.720] and then 14 you go to the States.
[10:47.720 -> 10:52.760] How much of being a people watcher did you learn through those experiences?
[10:52.760 -> 10:57.760] Well I think that being placed in all these different environments, you know, for me it's
[10:57.760 -> 11:04.840] really weird because, you know, I was born in London and, you know, I went to Nigeria
[11:04.840 -> 11:05.960] and then I went from Nigeria
[11:05.960 -> 11:06.960] to America.
[11:06.960 -> 11:12.360] And so in a way, I'm British, Nigerian and American, but I'm fully not neither one of
[11:12.360 -> 11:14.680] them, if you understand what I'm trying to say.
[11:14.680 -> 11:20.360] So I've had to literally look at every single culture I've been placed in and watch the
[11:20.360 -> 11:25.700] way that they are and observe the way they are and pick up things at the same time
[11:25.700 -> 11:28.000] and almost to try to fit in,
[11:28.000 -> 11:29.280] in all these different cultures.
[11:29.280 -> 11:32.760] So I've had to, I haven't fully fit in, in anywhere,
[11:32.760 -> 11:35.320] but I've partly fit in, in everywhere.
[11:35.320 -> 11:36.800] If you understand what I'm trying to say.
[11:36.800 -> 11:40.280] So, you know, just growing up, you had to learn,
[11:40.280 -> 11:42.400] you know, those skills because I kept on being placed
[11:42.400 -> 11:43.600] in all these different environments.
[11:43.600 -> 11:46.080] And so I had, almost as a means of survival,
[11:46.080 -> 11:47.720] I had to learn and watch people
[11:47.720 -> 11:50.360] and learn how to adapt to every situation that I was in.
[11:50.360 -> 11:52.680] So what would you say are the key traits
[11:52.680 -> 11:54.120] of somebody that can go in
[11:54.120 -> 11:58.200] and survive in very different cultures and environments?
[11:58.200 -> 12:00.880] It's very, very important that you understand
[12:00.880 -> 12:03.320] that you don't know, you know,
[12:03.320 -> 12:04.840] that you don't know everything.
[12:04.840 -> 12:07.800] You don't, matter of fact, you don fact, you might not really even know anything.
[12:07.800 -> 12:09.600] And you have to be willing to learn.
[12:09.600 -> 12:11.960] And you can't be abrasive and think
[12:11.960 -> 12:14.520] that you're better than anybody because you
[12:14.520 -> 12:17.680] come from whichever environment that you came from.
[12:17.680 -> 12:20.200] You literally have to go in there and just listen,
[12:20.200 -> 12:21.680] and watch, and learn.
[12:21.680 -> 12:25.640] And if you have that mentality that, you know,
[12:25.640 -> 12:29.480] you're going to learn from wherever you are,
[12:29.480 -> 12:31.480] you're going to learn from whoever you're around,
[12:31.480 -> 12:34.480] I think that gives you an advantage.
[12:35.640 -> 12:37.480] But if you go in there thinking you know everything,
[12:37.480 -> 12:39.120] or if you go in there thinking that you're better
[12:39.120 -> 12:42.640] than anybody, you're going to be in constant conflict
[12:42.640 -> 12:45.000] with whoever it is and wherever that you go.
[12:45.000 -> 12:50.000] So how was this young guy that's been brought up in London, moved to Nigeria, gone to the States,
[12:50.000 -> 12:53.000] not played American football until he's a teenager.
[12:53.000 -> 12:59.000] So in that respect as well, you weren't one of these seven-year-olds where your dad's kidded you up in your NFL outfit.
[12:59.000 -> 13:02.000] So you're already kind of not like everybody else.
[13:02.000 -> 13:03.000] Yeah.
[13:03.000 -> 13:06.540] How have all those experiences and all those little things
[13:06.540 -> 13:09.140] turned you into someone who could walk into
[13:09.140 -> 13:13.320] some of the most famous franchises in the world
[13:13.320 -> 13:16.420] and not just fit in, but thrive?
[13:16.420 -> 13:19.760] I think there's an aspect of luck to it.
[13:20.820 -> 13:21.660] Do you?
[13:21.660 -> 13:24.020] Because it's so rare for people to come on this podcast,
[13:24.020 -> 13:25.080] talk about high performance
[13:25.080 -> 13:28.760] mindsets and talk about success and then point towards luck. It's almost like they don't
[13:28.760 -> 13:32.660] want to say that. Do you know what I mean? Because in some ways it kind of takes away
[13:32.660 -> 13:33.660] from what they've achieved.
[13:33.660 -> 13:49.640] Yeah. Well, I'm not opposed to... because just my whole life story, you know, has led me to believe that I've been more lucky than good.
[13:49.640 -> 13:54.440] You know, every single thing I've experienced, even from being born here, being born here
[13:54.440 -> 13:59.280] gave me advantages that somebody born in Nigeria wouldn't have.
[13:59.280 -> 14:03.200] And you know, leaving Nigeria and going to America, you know, my father was able to afford
[14:03.200 -> 14:05.200] that at the time. And so that gave me another advantage that, you know, somebody who stayed in Nigeria and going to America, my father was able to afford that at the time.
[14:05.200 -> 14:10.320] And so that gave me another advantage that somebody who stayed in Nigeria didn't have.
[14:10.320 -> 14:16.440] And so all these different things let me know that a lot of this stuff is just down to chance.
[14:16.440 -> 14:17.440] It's not necessarily...
[14:17.440 -> 14:23.080] Obviously, you have to be able to take advantage of whatever situation that you're placed in,
[14:23.080 -> 14:26.160] but the fact that I was placed in those situations
[14:26.160 -> 14:29.080] let me know that a lot of this stuff is just,
[14:29.080 -> 14:30.360] it's all pure dumb luck.
[14:30.360 -> 14:33.980] The way I got into college was just pure dumb luck, man.
[14:33.980 -> 14:37.160] Like people, if I explained to you how I got into college,
[14:37.160 -> 14:38.840] you wouldn't believe it, you know?
[14:38.840 -> 14:42.320] It doesn't even make any sense to most people.
[14:42.320 -> 14:47.000] Started playing American football, I was 15 years old, so I started really, really late.
[14:47.000 -> 14:52.120] And I had a scholarship to play American football at 16.
[14:52.120 -> 14:54.280] And I really wasn't that good.
[14:54.280 -> 14:56.440] I was just a decent player.
[14:56.440 -> 15:00.360] And so I played 15, I played 16, and it was done.
[15:00.360 -> 15:01.600] I was over.
[15:01.600 -> 15:07.080] And so at that particular time, my father had got into some issues in
[15:07.080 -> 15:12.880] Nigeria so we didn't have any more money in America. So we were like stranded in America
[15:12.880 -> 15:19.560] at the time. So I'm in school and I had a driver's license. And so I was driving my
[15:19.560 -> 15:26.000] sister's car to school every day, every morning. I'm a senior, I'm driving my car to school every morning, right?
[15:26.000 -> 15:29.960] But I had to take this class called driver's education
[15:29.960 -> 15:32.660] in Auburn High School, which is the school I was in.
[15:32.660 -> 15:34.760] So, but because I had a driver's license
[15:34.760 -> 15:36.040] and I was already driving to school,
[15:36.040 -> 15:37.840] I was like, I'm not going to driver's ed.
[15:37.840 -> 15:40.400] Why would I go to driver's ed when I'm already driving?
[15:40.400 -> 15:43.680] So I would show up to that class late every single time
[15:43.680 -> 15:44.760] because I was already driving.
[15:44.760 -> 15:46.880] I didn't care nothing about driver's ed. So one day I show up to that class late every single time because I was always 80 driving. I didn't care nothing about driver's ed.
[15:46.880 -> 15:49.400] So one day I show up to this class.
[15:49.400 -> 15:51.120] Remind you, my football career is over.
[15:51.120 -> 15:52.920] I hadn't received a scholarship or nothing.
[15:52.920 -> 15:55.040] I'm just, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get
[15:55.040 -> 15:56.160] into college.
[15:56.160 -> 15:58.880] So one day I show up to this, to this class
[15:58.880 -> 16:00.320] and the teacher is like,
[16:00.320 -> 16:02.400] oh, you have to go to the principal's office.
[16:02.400 -> 16:03.240] I'm like, principal's office,
[16:03.240 -> 16:04.480] what am I going to the principal's office for?
[16:04.480 -> 16:06.020] So I go into the principal's office and she's like, oh, you have to go to the principal's office. I'm like, principal's office? What am I going to the principal's office for? So I go into the principal's office,
[16:06.020 -> 16:11.680] and she's like, you've been late to this class so many times.
[16:11.680 -> 16:14.960] And so because you've been late to this class so many times,
[16:14.960 -> 16:17.680] you have to go to in-school suspension, which
[16:17.680 -> 16:20.120] is like a form of detention.
[16:20.120 -> 16:23.160] And so I'm like, wow, I didn't even know that this was
[16:23.160 -> 16:24.760] that big of a deal.
[16:24.760 -> 16:26.520] So I go in the in-school suspension.
[16:26.520 -> 16:28.560] I have two weeks of in-school suspension now
[16:28.560 -> 16:30.960] because I'm tardy is what they like to call it.
[16:30.960 -> 16:32.280] I'm late to school.
[16:32.280 -> 16:34.160] So as I'm in in-school suspension,
[16:34.160 -> 16:36.360] the guy who's running the in-school suspension
[16:36.360 -> 16:39.120] was the running backs coach of our high school.
[16:39.120 -> 16:41.480] And so the second day I'm in there, he's like,
[16:41.480 -> 16:42.920] oh, so what are you going to do with your life?
[16:42.920 -> 16:45.400] I was like, I don't have a clue, man.
[16:45.400 -> 16:47.160] I came here to get education.
[16:47.160 -> 16:49.080] I'm supposed to be going to college.
[16:49.080 -> 16:52.000] And so I have to somehow find a way to go to college.
[16:52.000 -> 16:54.480] And so he's like, you know,
[16:54.480 -> 16:55.800] you're a pretty good football player.
[16:55.800 -> 16:57.360] I know you don't really know much, man,
[16:57.360 -> 17:00.760] but have you ever thought about walking on somewhere?
[17:00.760 -> 17:02.600] And walking, they don't give you a scholarship.
[17:02.600 -> 17:04.440] You just kind of walk on and then, you know,
[17:04.440 -> 17:07.440] you can earn your way to getting a scholarship. And I'm like, man, I don't give you a scholarship, you just kind of walk on and then, you know, you can earn your way to getting a scholarship.
[17:07.440 -> 17:08.880] And I'm like, I don't care.
[17:08.880 -> 17:10.480] I just want to go to school.
[17:10.480 -> 17:12.520] That's what I'm here for, to go to school.
[17:12.520 -> 17:14.840] So he's like, all right, cool, no problem.
[17:14.840 -> 17:17.520] Let me call one of my friends who's a coach at Troy University.
[17:17.520 -> 17:19.440] I'm like, all right, cool.
[17:19.440 -> 17:22.040] Now, mind you, I'm in in-school suspension now.
[17:22.040 -> 17:27.480] I'm like, all right, cool. So, he picks up the phone and he calls his friend
[17:27.480 -> 17:29.240] who's coaching at Troy.
[17:29.240 -> 17:31.840] And the guy's name is Tracy Rocker.
[17:31.840 -> 17:33.240] And so, as he calls his friend, he's like,
[17:33.240 -> 17:35.880] Tracy, I have this little kid here by the name of Osi.
[17:35.880 -> 17:38.480] He's a big kid, you know, athlete.
[17:38.480 -> 17:40.800] He hasn't been playing football too long.
[17:40.800 -> 17:43.960] You know, maybe he can walk on at your school.
[17:43.960 -> 17:47.000] Now, Tracy just so happened to be in Auburn at the time,
[17:47.000 -> 17:48.000] visiting his parents.
[17:48.000 -> 17:52.000] So, Tracy was like, you know what, you know, why not, man?
[17:52.000 -> 17:53.000] Let me come see this kid.
[17:53.000 -> 17:57.000] So, Tracy literally gets in his car from his parents' house,
[17:57.000 -> 18:01.000] drives to Auburn High School, where I'm in, in school suspension,
[18:01.000 -> 18:03.000] and he sees me.
[18:03.000 -> 18:05.200] And he's like, you're a big kid.
[18:05.200 -> 18:06.040] Can you run?
[18:06.040 -> 18:06.920] Like, what's your deal?
[18:06.920 -> 18:08.760] I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty fast.
[18:08.760 -> 18:13.240] So they take me outside and they tie me in the 40-yard dash.
[18:13.240 -> 18:14.880] And at this time I'm really big,
[18:14.880 -> 18:17.400] but I can run really, really fast.
[18:17.400 -> 18:20.040] So he times me, he's like, man, you really can run.
[18:20.040 -> 18:21.880] And so they put in a tape of me
[18:21.880 -> 18:23.000] and I don't know what I'm doing
[18:23.000 -> 18:24.480] because I haven't been playing football long,
[18:24.480 -> 18:28.360] but you know, he's like, oh, okay, you're running around,
[18:28.360 -> 18:30.680] but we can work with you here.
[18:30.680 -> 18:32.660] So Tracy now calls the head coach
[18:32.660 -> 18:35.160] of Troy University, Larry Blake,
[18:35.160 -> 18:38.040] and he's like, listen, we got this kid here.
[18:38.040 -> 18:42.600] He's fast, he speaks well, he's really intelligent, man.
[18:42.600 -> 18:44.320] I think we should take a chance on him.
[18:44.320 -> 18:45.280] And Larry Blake was like,
[18:45.280 -> 18:47.280] all right, cool, give him a scholarship.
[18:47.280 -> 18:48.680] So the guy was like,
[18:48.680 -> 18:49.800] okay, we're going to sign you too.
[18:49.800 -> 18:50.880] Wow.
[18:50.880 -> 18:51.880] That is mad.
[18:51.880 -> 18:52.920] I promise you, he's like,
[18:52.920 -> 18:53.520] we're going to sign you.
[18:53.520 -> 18:54.880] All because you were late for driver's ed.
[18:54.880 -> 18:56.200] For driver's ed.
[18:56.200 -> 18:58.320] Now, Jake, from the time this guy,
[18:58.320 -> 19:00.040] the running backs coach,
[19:00.040 -> 19:02.480] asked me what I was going to do with my life
[19:02.480 -> 19:03.720] till I had a scholarship,
[19:03.720 -> 19:07.680] this was literally less than an hour and a half.
[19:07.680 -> 19:08.520] Wow.
[19:08.520 -> 19:12.640] At this point, your whole life is about getting a scholarship
[19:12.640 -> 19:14.120] and it's just happened in an hour and a half.
[19:14.120 -> 19:14.960] Just like that.
[19:14.960 -> 19:16.720] Now, what I think is really interesting,
[19:16.720 -> 19:19.840] like when you said, oh, it's all about luck, right?
[19:19.840 -> 19:24.040] That doesn't seem to me like the mindset of an elite athlete,
[19:24.040 -> 19:27.160] but maybe the fact that that was your routine
[19:27.160 -> 19:29.840] was the armor you needed because as you progressed
[19:29.840 -> 19:32.360] through into the NFL and you started playing in big games,
[19:32.360 -> 19:34.040] every time you thought, am I good enough?
[19:34.040 -> 19:35.240] Have I got the skills?
[19:35.240 -> 19:36.360] Should I be here?
[19:36.360 -> 19:38.680] Your mind goes, well, this was fate
[19:38.680 -> 19:40.480] because you were late to drive Z,
[19:40.480 -> 19:42.720] which means you're now an NFL footballer.
[19:42.720 -> 19:46.080] And maybe that was like the armor that you needed.
[19:46.080 -> 19:49.160] And it just gave you that kind of mental strength to say,
[19:49.160 -> 19:50.960] this is meant to be, so I'll be fine today.
[19:50.960 -> 19:52.640] Therefore you play better and you win.
[19:52.640 -> 19:53.460] 100%.
[19:53.460 -> 19:56.400] And I always fall back on that because I would think back
[19:56.400 -> 19:58.160] to how it all began.
[19:58.160 -> 20:03.160] I'm like, what are the odds of this, you know,
[20:04.080 -> 20:04.960] all coming about?
[20:04.960 -> 20:05.000] So I would go out there almost carefree because in the arts, this, you know, all coming about.
[20:05.000 -> 20:08.960] So I would go out there almost carefree because in a way-
[20:08.960 -> 20:09.960] It was meant to be.
[20:09.960 -> 20:10.960] It was meant to be, yeah.
[20:10.960 -> 20:15.080] Without being intrusive, obviously, do you have a religious faith?
[20:15.080 -> 20:18.120] I was born and raised Christian.
[20:18.120 -> 20:19.120] Right.
[20:19.120 -> 20:20.120] I was.
[20:20.120 -> 20:24.920] And so I would say to maybe like I was about 17, 18 years old, I was like a devout Christian,
[20:24.920 -> 20:25.880] like devout.
[20:25.880 -> 20:33.760] And then I started to think about quite a few things and think about the world and like,
[20:33.760 -> 20:39.680] man, I know some people who are Muslims who are like really good friends of mine.
[20:39.680 -> 20:46.480] And I couldn't say that these guys are going to hell because if I was born in Saudi Arabia,
[20:46.480 -> 20:48.640] if I was born in the northern part of Nigeria,
[20:48.640 -> 20:49.480] I would have been a Muslim.
[20:49.480 -> 20:50.860] I would have believed in what they believe in.
[20:50.860 -> 20:54.220] So how can I now say these people are going to hell
[20:54.220 -> 20:58.080] if I could have very easily been a Muslim?
[20:58.080 -> 21:00.600] So for me now, it's more,
[21:00.600 -> 21:04.920] I just believe more in there has to be a higher power.
[21:04.920 -> 21:09.040] I believe in that, but what you call it, I just believe more in there has to be a higher power Yeah, you know, I believe in that but you know what you call it. I don't know
[21:09.040 -> 21:09.440] Yeah
[21:09.440 -> 21:09.660] No
[21:09.660 -> 21:16.540] The reason I ask is I because I love that story you've told there but I've met and interviewed athletes that sometimes
[21:16.600 -> 21:21.060] That gives them that freedom that you described of there's a fate at hand there
[21:21.060 -> 21:27.000] And therefore I can I can let myself go and just worry about performing rather than worrying about
[21:27.000 -> 21:29.000] how or why it happened.
[21:29.000 -> 21:34.000] But you may have ended up in the NFL because of being late for driver's ed
[21:34.000 -> 21:38.000] and getting that lucky break, but that doesn't mean that you're then going to be successful.
[21:38.000 -> 21:42.000] Relying on the fact that it was fate is not actually in reality
[21:42.000 -> 21:44.000] going to mean that you're a good football player, right?
[21:44.000 -> 21:45.960] No. You have to put the work in.
[21:45.960 -> 21:50.280] So when you talk at the very beginning of the podcast about I sat for hours, I watched
[21:50.280 -> 21:53.840] people, I studied people, and what I thought was interesting was you were the one that
[21:53.840 -> 21:54.840] noticed Tom Brady.
[21:54.840 -> 21:58.440] So you're clearly doing stuff that your fellow players are not doing.
[21:58.440 -> 21:59.680] Where did that mindset come from?
[21:59.680 -> 22:02.160] Who taught you that you need to think like that?
[22:02.160 -> 22:07.160] You know, for me, it's just when you know where you come from
[22:07.160 -> 22:10.440] and when you know the situation surrounding
[22:10.440 -> 22:16.200] where you come from, there's a hunger there.
[22:16.200 -> 22:19.040] You know, there's a real drive there
[22:19.040 -> 22:25.000] that, you know, you get from just knowing, you know, situations.
[22:26.460 -> 22:29.880] So, you know, I almost knew that I had to take advantage
[22:29.880 -> 22:33.140] like of this situation that I'm in.
[22:33.140 -> 22:35.060] Like I had to take full advantage of it, man,
[22:35.060 -> 22:37.460] because so many people where I came from,
[22:37.460 -> 22:40.700] not only in, you know, Nigeria,
[22:40.700 -> 22:42.740] the place I was placed in in America
[22:42.740 -> 22:44.840] was the hood, the projects.
[22:44.840 -> 22:52.160] So, you know, knowing all these different scenarios and how people were struggling, I was like,
[22:52.160 -> 22:56.400] man, I'm here and I have to take full advantage of this, man.
[22:56.400 -> 23:01.400] So if I'm not as athletic or if I'm not more athletic than all these people around me,
[23:01.400 -> 23:04.120] then I have to somehow find an edge.
[23:04.120 -> 23:05.040] And mine was just mental.
[23:05.040 -> 23:09.280] It was just constant studying, constant work, constant, constant, constant, because,
[23:10.320 -> 23:16.720] man, Jake, it's rough out here, man. It is really, really rough. And, you know,
[23:16.720 -> 23:23.840] knowing that and understanding that gave me the fight to want to be, you know, better than,
[23:23.840 -> 23:25.000] you know, pretty much everybody.
[23:25.520 -> 23:27.320] When you look at the NFL draft
[23:27.320 -> 23:29.720] and there's lots of like the psychometric tests
[23:29.720 -> 23:32.100] and the physical tests that they do,
[23:32.100 -> 23:33.880] what was it that you were bringing to it
[23:33.880 -> 23:35.480] as well as all that qualities?
[23:35.480 -> 23:38.160] Like how do they know that you've got that work ethic
[23:38.160 -> 23:39.960] or that willingness to study?
[23:39.960 -> 23:43.040] For them, this is why the draft
[23:43.040 -> 23:44.740] is almost like a crapshoot.
[23:46.680 -> 23:49.200] For them, this is why the draft is almost like a crapshoot. And majority of the people who they draft
[23:49.200 -> 23:51.640] will be failures, oddly enough.
[23:51.640 -> 23:53.480] It's just what it is.
[23:53.480 -> 23:58.080] They can't possibly know who's going to succeed
[23:58.080 -> 23:59.160] and who's going to fail.
[23:59.160 -> 24:01.760] I mean, they could tell you that they do, but if they did, OK,
[24:01.760 -> 24:06.020] the draft is, they're going to draft 230 something players every single
[24:06.020 -> 24:09.260] year out of those players, maybe 20 of them will be successful.
[24:09.540 -> 24:13.100] So if you look at those 20, what is it that, what is that
[24:13.100 -> 24:16.740] quality that they've got that doesn't show up on a psychometric
[24:16.740 -> 24:17.860] or a physical test?
[24:18.220 -> 24:18.980] Nobody knows.
[24:18.980 -> 24:22.820] I think only the player themselves can profess to know that.
[24:22.820 -> 24:25.680] But as I'm sitting over here telling you this,
[24:25.680 -> 24:28.800] I can guarantee you that every single person
[24:28.800 -> 24:31.360] who you interview that's going into the NFL
[24:31.360 -> 24:32.560] will probably tell you the same thing.
[24:32.560 -> 24:34.120] They'll be like, yeah, I work hard,
[24:34.120 -> 24:36.600] or I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that.
[24:36.600 -> 24:41.360] But then only very few succeed.
[24:41.360 -> 24:46.960] And there's some people who, honestly, they worked just as hard as I did.
[24:46.960 -> 24:47.800] They really did.
[24:47.800 -> 24:50.880] You know, they were in there working out hard in the morning.
[24:50.880 -> 24:53.560] You know, some of them will be in there watching tape
[24:53.560 -> 24:55.720] just like I did, and a year later,
[24:55.720 -> 24:56.760] you've heard nothing from them.
[24:56.760 -> 24:58.080] They just disappeared.
[24:58.080 -> 25:00.880] And then, you know, I also knew some people
[25:00.880 -> 25:02.800] who didn't work as hard as I did.
[25:02.800 -> 25:05.800] You know, I knew some people who weren't as athletic
[25:05.800 -> 25:08.480] as I was and they were better than me.
[25:08.480 -> 25:10.440] So what was your superpower then, obviously?
[25:10.440 -> 25:14.040] What was the thing that kept you in the game
[25:14.040 -> 25:15.480] as long as it did?
[25:15.480 -> 25:17.640] I think it's like we discussed,
[25:17.640 -> 25:21.640] I think it's basically my work ethic,
[25:21.640 -> 25:26.480] my ability to see things that other people weren't seeing, my ability to
[25:26.480 -> 25:29.880] see the game in a completely different way.
[25:29.880 -> 25:33.200] You know, just my different perspective on things, man.
[25:33.200 -> 25:38.040] Like, okay, I have to get off the ball quicker than everybody else.
[25:38.040 -> 25:40.160] So how am I going to do that?
[25:40.160 -> 25:49.360] If I'm looking, I'm like, okay, the offensive lineman is here and I'm here and everybody else is getting to him at a certain time.
[25:49.360 -> 25:50.800] But I need to get there faster.
[25:50.960 -> 25:52.480] So for me, it was like scientific.
[25:52.480 -> 25:56.280] I need to study to see what's going to give me that edge.
[25:56.280 -> 25:57.680] And I think that's what did it.
[25:58.040 -> 26:07.040] And the great quarterbacks, the great players, for me, I think they do that also. Because you can have guys who are very good athletes,
[26:07.040 -> 26:08.840] and they're going to be good players.
[26:08.840 -> 26:11.840] And you can have guys who are really smart athletes,
[26:11.840 -> 26:13.180] they're going to be good players.
[26:13.180 -> 26:16.980] But I think when you combine the great athlete
[26:16.980 -> 26:19.980] with the intelligence and the hard work,
[26:19.980 -> 26:22.060] I think that's where you get the special players.
[26:22.060 -> 26:23.360] I think that's the...
[26:23.360 -> 26:25.440] To answer your question, I think that's the difference. I think that is where you get the special players. I think that's the, to answer your question, I think that's the difference.
[26:25.440 -> 26:26.920] I think that is the complete difference
[26:26.920 -> 26:29.920] is when you combine a guy or a person
[26:29.920 -> 26:32.960] who's a great athlete with someone who's willing to grind
[26:32.960 -> 26:34.440] and work and look for that edge,
[26:34.440 -> 26:36.200] when you combine those two,
[26:36.200 -> 26:38.560] that's where you see the Michael Jordans
[26:38.560 -> 26:40.720] or the Tom Brady's or the, you know,
[26:40.720 -> 26:43.040] the special, the really special players.
[26:43.040 -> 26:46.720] So do you think then that seeing the world
[26:46.720 -> 26:49.160] from that lateral view, so rather than being immersed
[26:49.160 -> 26:51.240] in it, like Jake said, from seven years old
[26:51.240 -> 26:54.480] and growing up and knowing the history of the sport,
[26:54.480 -> 26:56.720] whereas you're coming at it from a wider perspective
[26:56.720 -> 26:59.680] of seeing more of life, do you think that
[26:59.680 -> 27:03.400] that could help other athletes or other performers?
[27:03.400 -> 27:04.480] 100%.
[27:04.480 -> 27:08.720] But I think it would be more so in other aspects of life,
[27:08.720 -> 27:10.000] not just sport.
[27:10.000 -> 27:12.000] I think if, you know, from sport,
[27:12.000 -> 27:14.160] you can look at it from, you know,
[27:14.160 -> 27:18.840] a guy who was raised in the academy system here,
[27:18.840 -> 27:21.240] who's just been playing football all his life.
[27:21.240 -> 27:23.280] And if he dedicates his life strictly to football,
[27:23.280 -> 27:25.260] I think he can be a great player, you know
[27:25.260 -> 27:31.480] But after his career is over, you know, that's where I think there's going to be problems, you know
[27:31.480 -> 27:36.460] but I think if you've experienced a bunch of different things and you come from a bunch of different backgrounds and then
[27:36.680 -> 27:41.560] You're immersed in that environment that Academy environment. I think after his career is over. I
[27:42.160 -> 27:44.160] Think he'll be much more prone to success
[27:44.600 -> 27:57.240] So, I mean, I don't know about the NFL, the stats, but I remember reading a stat in the NBA that I think it was something like 85% of players will find themselves bankrupt five years after they retire from playing.
[27:57.280 -> 27:57.560] Yeah.
[27:58.080 -> 28:06.960] Is that what you're describing there, that that lack of roundedness can often lead to trouble outside of the narrow domains of the sport?
[28:06.960 -> 28:07.960] Oh, absolutely.
[28:07.960 -> 28:08.800] Absolutely.
[28:08.800 -> 28:10.960] You're going to find a bunch of that, man,
[28:10.960 -> 28:12.720] but it's not only that.
[28:12.720 -> 28:17.160] In some form or fashion, I kind of understand it.
[28:17.160 -> 28:21.800] For instance, you see like a lot of the players who,
[28:21.800 -> 28:23.140] for instance, the white players,
[28:23.140 -> 28:28.080] who already come into the league with sound financial advice
[28:28.080 -> 28:31.960] from, you know, maybe they have money from early on,
[28:31.960 -> 28:35.040] their parents come from money, they'll come into the league,
[28:35.040 -> 28:37.360] I guarantee you the statistics for them being broken,
[28:37.360 -> 28:40.880] maybe like 5%, very, very low.
[28:40.880 -> 28:44.960] But then you see people who come from the hood
[28:44.960 -> 28:47.680] or the projects, the environment that I was
[28:47.680 -> 28:54.320] placed into, you know, when I left Nigeria. And I guarantee you, like, their statistics will probably
[28:54.320 -> 28:58.960] be that 80% that you're talking about. But then you have to understand why that is. These guys
[28:58.960 -> 29:06.720] have had nothing their whole life, like, nothing. They grew up in poverty. They grew up with no financial, no literacy
[29:06.720 -> 29:13.440] training, you know, none of that. And so now they get into the NFL and they're given millions of
[29:13.440 -> 29:21.680] dollars and their first instinct is to buy and to spend and to enjoy the things that they've never,
[29:21.680 -> 29:26.840] you know, had before. And so then they run out of money and then you now point the finger at them and say,
[29:26.840 -> 29:27.940] oh, you're an idiot.
[29:27.940 -> 29:29.460] It's wrong.
[29:29.460 -> 29:33.720] But it's all basically the environment you're placed into.
[29:33.720 -> 29:35.220] So how did you break that though?
[29:35.220 -> 29:38.720] Because if you've grown up in a family where you go,
[29:38.720 -> 29:40.920] I'm a spender, not a saver,
[29:40.920 -> 29:42.800] and then you get given millions of dollars,
[29:42.800 -> 29:44.640] you just spend with more money.
[29:44.640 -> 29:46.520] Right. So it's an education process.
[29:46.520 -> 29:49.200] So how did you educate yourself
[29:49.200 -> 29:51.320] not to go into those bear traps?
[29:51.320 -> 29:54.320] It was very easy because I was lucky enough
[29:54.320 -> 29:57.840] to have grown up in a household,
[29:57.840 -> 29:59.360] in a family that had money.
[29:59.360 -> 30:01.920] Like my father was well off.
[30:01.920 -> 30:06.920] And it was only until like the later stages of my life
[30:08.420 -> 30:11.200] that he kind of didn't have any money anymore.
[30:11.200 -> 30:15.320] So I had experienced having money and then being broke.
[30:15.320 -> 30:19.100] And so I knew for a fact that having money
[30:19.100 -> 30:21.840] was a lot better than being broke.
[30:21.840 -> 30:22.880] So when I did get money,
[30:22.880 -> 30:27.200] I knew that I never wanted to go back to being broke, man.
[30:27.200 -> 30:30.000] That's, man, it's a terrible thing,
[30:30.000 -> 30:31.240] especially if you've had money
[30:31.240 -> 30:33.360] and then went back to being broke.
[30:33.360 -> 30:35.160] And so I knew going in, I was like,
[30:35.160 -> 30:39.880] rather than spending money, my whole thing was saving
[30:39.880 -> 30:43.080] and being fiscally responsible
[30:43.080 -> 30:44.880] and being smarter with the money that I had
[30:44.880 -> 30:46.680] because I knew what
[30:46.680 -> 30:48.480] it was to have money and then the gold broke.
[30:48.480 -> 30:50.920] And it just wasn't a good thing.
[30:50.920 -> 30:55.820] And so I didn't come in with the mentality of, oh, I'm going to buy this and buy that
[30:55.820 -> 30:58.760] and buy all this crazy stuff because my father had that.
[30:58.760 -> 31:02.460] And so I'd already experienced that to some extent.
[31:02.460 -> 31:08.680] And I didn't really feel the need to prove anything to anybody by buying, you know,
[31:08.680 -> 31:09.920] a bunch of different things.
[31:09.920 -> 31:11.440] I didn't feel the need to do that.
[31:11.440 -> 31:15.900] So I was smart in that way, but I also understand
[31:15.900 -> 31:17.940] where that mentality comes from
[31:17.940 -> 31:20.300] when people have never had anything before,
[31:20.300 -> 31:21.600] and then they just stupidly spend.
[31:21.600 -> 31:24.020] So to your point, education is the most important thing.
[31:24.020 -> 31:26.920] You need to be educated on what to do and what not to do.
[31:26.920 -> 31:28.600] So you're now a dad, right?
[31:28.600 -> 31:29.760] Yes.
[31:29.760 -> 31:31.520] Your kids with the career you've had
[31:31.520 -> 31:34.000] and the life you've lived are probably not going to struggle.
[31:34.000 -> 31:34.840] Let's be honest.
[31:34.840 -> 31:35.660] Yeah.
[31:35.660 -> 31:38.920] So how do you build a resilient child
[31:38.920 -> 31:40.000] when they don't struggle?
[31:40.000 -> 31:42.440] That's an incredible question, Jay.
[31:42.440 -> 31:43.280] Incredible question.
[31:43.280 -> 31:45.000] And I struggle with it.
[31:45.000 -> 31:45.840] I do.
[31:45.840 -> 31:49.080] Because I think you probably were successful in the NFL
[31:49.080 -> 31:51.280] and a better player because of the period
[31:51.280 -> 31:52.120] where your dad went,
[31:52.120 -> 31:53.680] oh, see, I've got issues.
[31:53.680 -> 31:54.720] You're in the projects.
[31:54.720 -> 31:55.740] We've got no money.
[31:55.740 -> 31:56.680] Fend for yourself.
[31:56.680 -> 31:57.520] Yep.
[31:57.520 -> 31:58.340] Without that happening,
[31:58.340 -> 32:00.760] I wonder whether you would have been as successful.
[32:00.760 -> 32:02.040] There's no chance.
[32:02.040 -> 32:03.400] There's no chance of it.
[32:03.400 -> 32:09.840] And in some form or fashion, that was luck in some form or fashion.
[32:09.840 -> 32:12.880] Yeah, but it was part of the story.
[32:12.880 -> 32:17.520] And you know, I look at my son now, I have a 12 year old and you know, we have a two
[32:17.520 -> 32:24.560] year old and I look at them and I see my 12 year old and you know, that hunger that I
[32:24.560 -> 32:25.000] had, you know, he talked, that I had, he'd talk,
[32:26.080 -> 32:29.400] oh, I want to be in the NBA, I want to do this,
[32:29.400 -> 32:32.400] I want to do that, and then he'll get on the treadmill
[32:32.400 -> 32:33.960] for like five minutes and be like, yeah,
[32:33.960 -> 32:35.760] and then he'll get off.
[32:35.760 -> 32:37.840] He'll go shoot some jumpers for like three minutes
[32:37.840 -> 32:39.620] and be like, yeah, I'm done with this.
[32:39.620 -> 32:44.620] And you can't teach them that hunger
[32:46.280 -> 32:54.760] that it's going to take, man. I tell him, I pull them aside, I'm like, listen, I've been in that environment of athletes
[32:54.760 -> 32:58.000] who are doing this for their lives.
[32:58.000 -> 32:59.840] You think this is a joke.
[32:59.840 -> 33:04.240] These people, their whole families and their families' families are dependent on this,
[33:04.240 -> 33:06.200] man. They will kill you out there.
[33:06.200 -> 33:09.120] And you think you're going to go out there and behave this way
[33:09.120 -> 33:11.160] and make, you don't stand a chance.
[33:11.160 -> 33:13.480] But I can't give him that.
[33:13.480 -> 33:14.040] Fire.
[33:14.040 -> 33:17.000] That has to come from something inside you,
[33:17.000 -> 33:20.200] whereas you're like, man, I got to get out of here.
[33:20.200 -> 33:23.320] I have to get out of this situation.
[33:23.320 -> 33:27.760] And if you don't have that, I think it takes a real special athlete.
[33:27.760 -> 33:29.300] That's why you see, like,
[33:29.300 -> 33:32.920] maybe Michael Jordan's kids
[33:32.920 -> 33:35.140] or, you know, kids of high level.
[33:35.140 -> 33:36.800] They don't never really ascend
[33:36.800 -> 33:39.800] to the level of their parents
[33:39.800 -> 33:44.600] because I feel like it's that kind of greatness
[33:44.600 -> 33:47.160] is born from struggle in most cases.
[33:47.160 -> 33:49.840] And the ones who achieve that,
[33:49.840 -> 33:51.320] even though their parents were great,
[33:51.320 -> 33:53.120] I believe there's a special place for them
[33:53.120 -> 33:56.760] because that took a different kind of, you know.
[33:56.760 -> 33:57.600] Absolutely.
[33:57.600 -> 33:59.080] What's the name of your youngest?
[33:59.080 -> 34:00.720] Igwe, well, Lucas.
[34:00.720 -> 34:03.320] So is the most important thing for Lucas then
[34:03.320 -> 34:04.540] to be allowed to fail?
[34:04.540 -> 34:07.000] Because as parents parents particularly successful parents
[34:07.000 -> 34:12.460] You will do everything you and your wife Laila. You will do everything to make sure your child does not fail
[34:12.460 -> 34:16.500] Yes, therefore they have no resilience. Therefore they get to 21 22
[34:16.580 -> 34:22.400] They go for their first ever job interview and get told no. Yeah, the whole world falls apart. Yeah, so it's about
[34:23.100 -> 34:27.280] Making sure there's a phrase, helicopter parenting.
[34:28.640 -> 34:29.960] Hovering around your kids all the time.
[34:29.960 -> 34:30.800] You know, we do it all the time,
[34:30.800 -> 34:31.840] we build everything up.
[34:31.840 -> 34:32.680] Maybe with your two year old,
[34:32.680 -> 34:35.920] let them win, let them, yeah, you've done it, wow.
[34:35.920 -> 34:38.120] What about, oh, you gotta be better
[34:38.120 -> 34:40.700] if you're gonna be successful.
[34:42.080 -> 34:44.000] That's a good one, man.
[34:44.920 -> 34:47.240] You love your kids so much, you know,
[34:47.240 -> 34:48.840] you just kind of want to give them everything
[34:48.840 -> 34:49.940] and help them all the time.
[34:49.940 -> 34:54.940] But if you do that, then they can't, you know,
[34:55.840 -> 35:00.640] it's just not the way, unfortunately, the world works.
[35:00.640 -> 35:03.960] But, you know, the only thing that I could think of
[35:03.960 -> 35:06.580] and say is, you know, you see people
[35:06.580 -> 35:12.940] who are successful and they hand down generational wealth to their children.
[35:12.940 -> 35:16.900] And you know, this just keeps on in their family and just keeps on going and going.
[35:16.900 -> 35:21.840] So I almost feel like, okay, maybe this is my responsibility to hand that to them the
[35:21.840 -> 35:25.000] way you see a bunch of other people
[35:25.000 -> 35:28.340] I'm doing, but you still want them to...
[35:29.280 -> 35:30.740] Yeah, but don't forget what you've got.
[35:30.740 -> 35:31.960] You've got the wealth, yeah?
[35:31.960 -> 35:32.800] Yeah.
[35:32.800 -> 35:34.180] But you've also got the experience
[35:34.180 -> 35:37.180] and the knowledge of struggling and being a success.
[35:37.180 -> 35:39.580] So what you have to, I guess, do is,
[35:39.580 -> 35:40.700] if you're going to pass the wealth,
[35:40.700 -> 35:42.260] you've got to pass the other stuff on as well.
[35:42.260 -> 35:45.720] Yeah, but how do you you do that is the question.
[35:45.720 -> 35:48.120] Allow them to fail, set them traps.
[35:48.120 -> 35:50.640] I mean, Damian, you're a good one for the stories of people,
[35:50.640 -> 35:52.080] even when they're applying,
[35:52.080 -> 35:54.360] people are going for a job to set traps
[35:54.360 -> 35:55.680] to get the right people.
[35:55.680 -> 35:58.080] So the work, I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with this
[35:58.080 -> 36:02.880] from the education when you were in the NFL,
[36:02.880 -> 36:06.040] but the whole growth mindset work of Carol Dweck.
[36:06.040 -> 36:09.240] So she's a child psychologist.
[36:09.240 -> 36:11.920] She's at Stanford now, I think.
[36:11.920 -> 36:13.560] But she did studies with kids
[36:13.560 -> 36:15.440] where kids that were born with talent
[36:15.440 -> 36:17.960] are told that they were talented.
[36:17.960 -> 36:21.420] They were sort of given like maths tests to do,
[36:21.420 -> 36:23.720] but they were told that they were good at maths already.
[36:23.720 -> 36:28.600] And then other kids were taught about struggle and how struggle makes you smarter and weren't
[36:28.600 -> 36:30.680] given particular maths training.
[36:30.680 -> 36:34.160] And when they did the same puzzles, the kids that thought they were talented coasted through
[36:34.160 -> 36:38.240] the easy maths test, but when it got more difficult, they fell away a lot quicker.
[36:38.240 -> 36:42.120] They're like, you're a child that stops playing basketball after three minutes.
[36:42.120 -> 36:45.240] But the ones that were taught about struggle makes you smarter,
[36:45.240 -> 36:47.680] when they hit difficulties, they kept working,
[36:47.680 -> 36:50.400] they kept grafting, they kept finding a way through.
[36:50.400 -> 36:53.160] So resilience is a mindset,
[36:53.160 -> 36:55.560] it's not something that you're born with.
[36:55.560 -> 36:56.840] I'm glad we're having this conversation
[36:56.840 -> 36:59.960] and my wife is here to listen to it because, man.
[36:59.960 -> 37:00.800] Hi.
[37:00.800 -> 37:03.640] See, can I ask you a question about that?
[37:03.640 -> 37:26.440] Because I don't want to embarrass you here, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, And somebody asked about like, how do you date Miss Universe? And what I loved was your answer of, she was a person.
[37:26.440 -> 37:29.600] And I saw beyond status or titles
[37:29.600 -> 37:32.100] and I saw the person underneath that.
[37:32.100 -> 37:33.900] And I was interested about,
[37:33.900 -> 37:35.760] that's obviously a farsighted view,
[37:35.760 -> 37:38.200] but you must've been going into dressing rooms
[37:38.200 -> 37:40.560] of big egos, big reputations,
[37:40.560 -> 37:43.600] guys that were on a pedestal.
[37:43.600 -> 37:46.240] What did you look for in a teammate
[37:46.240 -> 37:49.240] beyond title, reputation, or status?
[37:49.240 -> 37:52.600] Just exactly what you said, the person that they were.
[37:52.600 -> 37:56.900] And that this was what I respected most about people.
[37:56.900 -> 38:01.160] You know, even, you know, from a young age
[38:01.160 -> 38:03.320] in my father's house, we would have like, you know,
[38:03.320 -> 38:08.040] drivers and, you know, maids and all this, and I was hanging out with them.
[38:08.040 -> 38:14.160] So I never, I never under any circumstances ever had the mentality that I was better than
[38:14.160 -> 38:15.160] anybody.
[38:15.160 -> 38:17.040] Everybody was just a person to me.
[38:17.040 -> 38:21.360] And so going into, you know, these locker rooms, when I would see people who behaved
[38:21.360 -> 38:27.000] that or behaved in a manner who thought they were better than people, in my head, you're just a person.
[38:27.000 -> 38:32.800] And at the end, when we all die, you're going to the ground just like whoever.
[38:32.800 -> 38:39.920] So if you didn't behave like a regular human being or if you didn't behave like everybody,
[38:39.920 -> 38:45.520] if you didn't treat people the same way as you treat anybody else, then I couldn't respect you.
[38:45.520 -> 38:47.720] And so my friends in the locker room
[38:47.720 -> 38:50.440] were people who had the same mentality as me.
[38:50.440 -> 38:52.480] You would see some of the biggest stars,
[38:52.480 -> 38:55.760] and I'm talking about people who couldn't walk down
[38:55.760 -> 38:57.120] the streets in New York.
[38:57.120 -> 39:02.280] And once you get in that locker room, we're all just people,
[39:02.280 -> 39:04.000] man.
[39:04.000 -> 39:05.400] You're not better than anybody.
[39:05.400 -> 39:08.440] The last person on the roster is the same as the,
[39:08.440 -> 39:10.240] you know, the top person on the roster.
[39:10.240 -> 39:13.880] Everybody was almost like a family in there.
[39:13.880 -> 39:16.000] And you learn to respect that.
[39:16.000 -> 39:18.560] But then when you would leave that environment
[39:18.560 -> 39:21.240] and, you know, you would drive into the city
[39:21.240 -> 39:24.000] and you would see the reaction to people,
[39:24.000 -> 39:26.080] it was almost like, you're
[39:26.080 -> 39:28.360] like, golly, my wife says that all the time.
[39:28.360 -> 39:32.360] She was like, you know, I'd be walking down the street with her and people were like,
[39:32.360 -> 39:33.360] hey, what's up?
[39:33.360 -> 39:35.080] You know, talking like they knew me.
[39:35.080 -> 39:40.200] And she couldn't understand, you know, that mentality, you know, whereas people would
[39:40.200 -> 39:41.200] do that.
[39:41.200 -> 39:48.960] But, you know, for me it was normal and I would just treat them like the same way that I would treat my brother or anybody because in my head nobody is better
[39:48.960 -> 39:49.960] than anybody else.
[39:49.960 -> 39:55.320] So do you think that being able to view the world through that lens meant that you could
[39:55.320 -> 40:00.340] look at Tom Brady before the 2007 Super Bowl and not see Tom Brady?
[40:00.340 -> 40:02.640] You could just see a person that you were just going to smash?
[40:02.640 -> 40:04.120] I didn't care nothing about him, man.
[40:04.120 -> 40:08.440] I didn't care nothing about, you know, him, his championships or his whole lot.
[40:08.440 -> 40:10.720] No, he's just a man just like me.
[40:10.720 -> 40:13.200] And we were going to see who was better.
[40:13.200 -> 40:17.200] And that's the great thing about sport, man, is no matter who you are,
[40:17.200 -> 40:20.440] no matter what you've accomplished, you still have to, you know,
[40:20.440 -> 40:21.840] you still got to play that game.
[40:21.840 -> 40:24.960] And then that will determine, you know, who the real victor is.
[40:24.960 -> 40:29.560] And I love that about sport.
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[40:59.460 -> 41:05.920] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you
[41:05.920 -> 41:10.960] can live a better life and that's why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share.
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[42:37.040 -> 42:41.520] details I was just thinking about the
[42:40.280 -> 42:43.040] people that are yelling at you when
[42:41.520 -> 42:44.440] you're walking down the street they
[42:43.040 -> 42:45.360] probably just couldn't believe you are with Miss Universe.
[42:45.360 -> 42:47.800] Let's just be clear on that.
[42:47.800 -> 42:49.640] That's probably what it was.
[42:49.640 -> 42:54.320] I'd love to keep the conversation on the locker room for a bit.
[42:54.320 -> 42:57.840] Because lots of business people listen to this, people that run businesses, people that
[42:57.840 -> 43:02.880] operate in businesses and creating winning cultures is a permanent challenge for those
[43:02.880 -> 43:03.880] people.
[43:03.880 -> 43:08.620] So from the locker rooms that you've enjoyed, what have you learned is a winning culture?
[43:08.620 -> 43:11.180] Let's say you want to go and set up a team or set up a business tomorrow.
[43:11.180 -> 43:14.180] What are the cultures from then that you'd like to see now?
[43:14.180 -> 43:15.180] That's a great question.
[43:15.180 -> 43:16.180] Okay.
[43:16.180 -> 43:22.980] I played 12 years in the NFL and I can categorically tell you that maybe there was like five or
[43:22.980 -> 43:26.660] six years where I would, I couldn't
[43:26.660 -> 43:28.760] wait to get to work.
[43:28.760 -> 43:30.640] Like I couldn't wait to get there.
[43:30.640 -> 43:33.240] You know, it was so much fun being there.
[43:33.240 -> 43:36.900] Like I didn't, I didn't view it as work.
[43:36.900 -> 43:42.400] Like I would get in there and like my friends were there and it was, I'm talking about competition
[43:42.400 -> 43:47.560] at the highest level, you know, because every year they're bringing in,
[43:47.560 -> 43:49.280] you know, new players and these players
[43:49.280 -> 43:50.960] are actively looking to replace you
[43:50.960 -> 43:54.720] because there's only, there's a finite number of jobs.
[43:54.720 -> 43:56.320] And so you're competing with people,
[43:56.320 -> 43:59.280] but in the same respect, it was just,
[43:59.280 -> 44:02.680] it was just so much fun going in there.
[44:02.680 -> 44:05.300] And coincidentally, these were the years where we had the most success, is when you would going in there. And coincidentally, these were the years
[44:05.300 -> 44:06.960] where we had the most success,
[44:06.960 -> 44:08.860] is when you would go in there,
[44:08.860 -> 44:10.380] it was a good environment.
[44:10.380 -> 44:12.140] So how positive were those environments?
[44:12.140 -> 44:14.060] Because I always think of,
[44:14.060 -> 44:15.860] I've never played sport to an elite level,
[44:15.860 -> 44:17.820] but I think of the winning dressing rooms
[44:17.820 -> 44:18.700] or the winning locker rooms
[44:18.700 -> 44:19.980] as the ones where everyone's ready
[44:19.980 -> 44:22.180] to rip each other's head off for not performing.
[44:22.180 -> 44:25.440] How much were those great eras for you, the ones where everyone lifted each other up, made each other's head off for not performing. How much were those great eras for you,
[44:25.440 -> 44:27.480] the ones where everyone lifted each other up,
[44:27.480 -> 44:28.840] made each other feel amazing
[44:28.840 -> 44:30.720] to see how far you could all go?
[44:30.720 -> 44:32.280] Most of them were like that.
[44:32.280 -> 44:35.240] Yeah, it wasn't, oddly enough,
[44:35.240 -> 44:37.040] the times where people were trying
[44:37.040 -> 44:38.200] to rip each other's heads off,
[44:38.200 -> 44:40.320] those were the years where we were,
[44:40.320 -> 44:42.080] where we didn't play quite as well.
[44:42.080 -> 44:45.320] And so I think winning fosters a winning mentality.
[44:45.320 -> 44:47.680] And so, you know, maybe the fact that we were winning
[44:47.680 -> 44:50.480] allowed us to keep that environment going
[44:50.480 -> 44:52.440] because it's a ultra competitive thing,
[44:52.440 -> 44:55.260] but we would come in there and, you know,
[44:55.260 -> 44:56.660] they would put the tape on
[44:56.660 -> 44:59.000] and we would just stop watching tape
[44:59.000 -> 45:02.840] and we would just start messing around with each other
[45:02.840 -> 45:04.760] while their film was playing.
[45:04.760 -> 45:06.200] You know, the coach would stop it.
[45:06.200 -> 45:07.720] He would, you know, stop the film.
[45:07.720 -> 45:10.960] And then he would like, if somebody was talking too loud,
[45:10.960 -> 45:12.640] he would put them on trial.
[45:12.640 -> 45:15.240] And so, you know, I would be the lawyer.
[45:15.240 -> 45:17.480] This is while we're supposed to be watching tape.
[45:17.480 -> 45:18.320] I would be the lawyer.
[45:18.320 -> 45:21.220] I would be defending my teammate for talking loudly.
[45:21.220 -> 45:22.680] And then there would be a prosecution.
[45:22.680 -> 45:24.640] There will be, you know, defendants.
[45:24.640 -> 45:28.320] And, you know, we would fine each other for being late.
[45:28.320 -> 45:31.620] Say you were supposed to do, say for instance,
[45:31.620 -> 45:35.220] you were supposed to be in this door at 11 o'clock.
[45:35.220 -> 45:38.340] And so everybody would run in at like 10.59,
[45:38.340 -> 45:40.020] and we would jam the door.
[45:40.020 -> 45:41.860] So if you were late, you couldn't get in.
[45:41.860 -> 45:44.820] And then we would fine you like $5,000
[45:44.820 -> 45:46.280] while we're holding the door for you not to you couldn't get in. And then we would fine you like $5,000, while we're holding the door for you
[45:46.280 -> 45:47.920] not to be able to get in.
[45:47.920 -> 45:49.440] And so when you finally did get in,
[45:49.440 -> 45:52.240] you would, you know, we'd write your name on there.
[45:52.240 -> 45:54.040] And then like when we'd go to practice,
[45:54.040 -> 45:55.840] you had to like sprint.
[45:55.840 -> 45:58.000] I'm talking about every single playing,
[45:58.000 -> 46:00.160] the guy would throw the ball, you had to sprint.
[46:00.160 -> 46:02.240] And then we would put a sheet down
[46:02.240 -> 46:04.320] and we would write how many times you ran to the ball.
[46:04.320 -> 46:06.800] And if you didn't run to the ball, that's a fine.
[46:06.800 -> 46:11.120] And so everything became like competition, but it was a fun competition.
[46:11.120 -> 46:13.680] And we loved each other.
[46:13.680 -> 46:16.080] And we're still in contact today.
[46:16.080 -> 46:20.640] We have a whole WhatsApp group and we're talking, we're enjoying each other because of that bond
[46:20.640 -> 46:24.320] you form that's forged through a high level of competition.
[46:24.320 -> 46:28.560] See what's noticeable though, Cee, is how energized you are when you're talking
[46:28.560 -> 46:29.560] about this.
[46:29.560 -> 46:32.200] So what would you say were the behaviors?
[46:32.200 -> 46:34.320] So how would you describe that environment?
[46:34.320 -> 46:39.320] So I'm hearing at fun is one of the terms you use in the personal relationships, but
[46:39.320 -> 46:46.440] how would you describe that culture? It was based completely on merits,
[46:46.440 -> 46:50.240] was one of the most important things I would say.
[46:50.240 -> 46:55.360] You're in an environment and black, white, green,
[46:55.360 -> 46:57.240] whatever it is, nobody cares.
[46:57.240 -> 46:59.400] I'm talking about right there within the locker room
[46:59.400 -> 47:00.920] and on the football field.
[47:00.920 -> 47:03.040] And so when you're placed in that environment
[47:03.040 -> 47:06.040] and you see that everything is fair, like
[47:06.040 -> 47:13.040] the best players are going to play, and the best players are going to get paid the most
[47:13.040 -> 47:19.120] money. When you're in an environment like that, where everybody's treated fairly and
[47:19.120 -> 47:27.440] everything is based on merits, it almost creates, you know, a trusting, it creates a trusting feeling.
[47:27.440 -> 47:31.320] It's a feeling of just being around like-minded people.
[47:31.320 -> 47:33.880] And whether you are white, Black,
[47:33.880 -> 47:36.480] white people didn't think they were better than Black people,
[47:36.480 -> 47:39.020] Black people didn't think they were better than white people,
[47:39.020 -> 47:42.040] nobody thought anything besides the best players were
[47:42.040 -> 47:44.600] going to play, and those guys were
[47:44.600 -> 47:45.840] going to get paid the most.
[47:45.840 -> 47:48.020] And we are placed in that environment.
[47:48.020 -> 47:50.040] And when you understand this to be true,
[47:50.040 -> 47:51.680] when you understand this to be self-evident,
[47:51.680 -> 47:55.960] I think this is what creates a culture of,
[47:55.960 -> 47:57.560] you know, just love and oneness
[47:57.560 -> 47:59.300] and wanting to be around each other.
[47:59.300 -> 48:01.960] So how would you deal with people that came in
[48:01.960 -> 48:03.660] who didn't subscribe to this?
[48:03.660 -> 48:06.960] Yeah, they were gone pretty quickly.
[48:06.960 -> 48:08.640] They didn't last in that environment.
[48:08.640 -> 48:10.800] And how did you make sure they didn't last?
[48:10.800 -> 48:12.360] Oh, they just weed themselves out.
[48:12.360 -> 48:15.600] It wasn't like, oh, we're going to go whip this guy,
[48:15.600 -> 48:16.560] you know, beat this guy.
[48:16.560 -> 48:17.720] It wasn't nothing like that.
[48:17.720 -> 48:20.800] It was just, this is the way we do things, right?
[48:20.800 -> 48:23.960] You come in, you see the way everybody's behaving.
[48:23.960 -> 48:32.840] If you don't conform to this behavior, you just weren't going to fit in, number one. The locker room is a lot
[48:32.840 -> 48:38.120] of people. It's 53 people. Training camps is like 90 people. And so, you come in there
[48:38.120 -> 48:47.640] and you're an outcast in an environment where 53 people are behaving one way, how do you expect to last in that environment?
[48:47.640 -> 48:49.960] Like you can't, unless you're literally
[48:49.960 -> 48:51.320] an exceptional player.
[48:51.320 -> 48:55.280] And in the NFL, there's almost everybody who makes it
[48:55.280 -> 48:56.320] there's an exceptional player.
[48:56.320 -> 48:59.200] So you can't survive in that environment.
[48:59.200 -> 49:01.600] So the six years, when you wouldn't describe it
[49:01.600 -> 49:04.560] as passionately as what you described that period,
[49:04.560 -> 49:06.380] how did you feel you could influence
[49:06.380 -> 49:08.000] and change that for the better?
[49:08.000 -> 49:10.520] That's something that I've struggled with myself
[49:10.520 -> 49:13.440] because I don't think I really understand
[49:13.440 -> 49:15.520] because it was the same locker room,
[49:15.520 -> 49:18.520] you know, maybe a couple of different players here or there
[49:18.520 -> 49:20.440] or a couple of different coaches here or there,
[49:20.440 -> 49:22.720] but I can't point the finger directly and say,
[49:22.720 -> 49:27.240] this is what caused us to not be gelling or not, you know,
[49:27.240 -> 49:29.960] playing as well as, as we wanted to.
[49:29.960 -> 49:32.640] I really don't know the answer to that question.
[49:32.640 -> 49:33.680] It's something I've thought about.
[49:33.680 -> 49:35.000] I'm like, man, I wonder what happened.
[49:35.000 -> 49:36.760] I wonder why things were different.
[49:36.760 -> 49:38.120] That's difficult though, isn't it?
[49:38.120 -> 49:40.120] Because if you don't know the issue,
[49:40.120 -> 49:43.080] you can't then solve it and make sure the following season
[49:43.080 -> 49:43.920] you're better.
[49:43.920 -> 49:44.840] Exactly.
[49:44.840 -> 49:48.000] And it was almost as if, you know,
[49:48.000 -> 49:52.640] I wish I knew because I could transfer it to, you know,
[49:52.640 -> 49:54.120] I'll be like, oh, this is exactly what we did.
[49:54.120 -> 49:56.960] And then, you know, everybody would be successful,
[49:56.960 -> 49:59.240] but I don't really know the answer to that question.
[49:59.240 -> 50:01.720] I just know in some instances we had it
[50:01.720 -> 50:03.360] and in other instances we didn't.
[50:03.360 -> 50:05.600] So can I ask a bit of a leading question on this?
[50:05.600 -> 50:06.600] Absolutely.
[50:06.600 -> 50:08.240] This really intrigues me, this area.
[50:08.240 -> 50:15.280] If you were to divide up the skillset of hard skills as in speed, fitness, and all the things
[50:15.280 -> 50:21.600] you can measure, and then you could also apportion some of it to soft skills, like the laughter,
[50:21.600 -> 50:26.180] the humor, the trust, that are very difficult to quantify.
[50:26.180 -> 50:27.380] In the best dressing rooms,
[50:27.380 -> 50:28.820] what would you say the proportion was
[50:28.820 -> 50:32.340] between hard skills and soft skills?
[50:32.340 -> 50:35.500] I would probably say 60, 40.
[50:35.500 -> 50:38.620] 60 hard skills, 40 soft skills.
[50:38.620 -> 50:40.180] I'll probably attribute it to that.
[50:40.180 -> 50:41.740] And in the bad dressing rooms?
[50:42.660 -> 50:43.700] Probably.
[50:43.700 -> 50:44.860] Harder on the hard skills?
[50:44.860 -> 50:45.000] Probably like 80, 20. I'm in the bad dressing rooms. Probably. Harder on the hard skills.
[50:45.000 -> 50:51.000] Probably like 80, 20, you know, 80 on the hard skills, 20 on the soft skills, I would say.
[50:51.000 -> 50:57.000] But I think you have to, you have to somehow find a balance, you know, and a healthy balance.
[50:57.000 -> 51:08.800] It can't be just majority hard skills with little soft skills or majority soft skills with little hard skills. I think I believe that people have to come into work
[51:08.800 -> 51:12.640] not even thinking that it's a job.
[51:12.640 -> 51:16.040] I feel like people have to come in there wanting to be there,
[51:16.040 -> 51:19.880] wanting to realize whatever goal it is that you have.
[51:19.880 -> 51:21.760] And if majority of the people who
[51:21.760 -> 51:23.400] are working in a specific environment
[51:23.400 -> 51:27.520] or a specific company think like that, I think your organization is going to be successful
[51:27.640 -> 51:32.380] But if most of the people come in there thinking oh, I gotta go into work or they go in there
[51:32.920 -> 51:35.280] You know trying to achieve things for themselves
[51:35.280 -> 51:39.960] I think it's gonna be much more difficult for your organization to succeed
[51:39.960 -> 51:49.600] Is the OC that we see today the epitome of those good environments because one thing that has always struck me from the OC that we see today the epitome of those good environments? Because one thing that has always struck me from the time that we first met is that I would describe you as absolutely free of ego.
[51:49.680 -> 51:50.180] Right.
[51:50.180 -> 51:56.200] Now, I don't know whether that's how you've become since you've retired or whether if we'd have bumped into each other when you were playing,
[51:56.200 -> 51:58.200] whether you still would have been free of ego because
[51:58.920 -> 52:02.360] someone has taught you that the right way to be is to be ego free.
[52:02.440 -> 52:06.760] Yeah, I think from from a young age, I was like the,
[52:06.760 -> 52:08.360] from a young age, I was just,
[52:08.360 -> 52:12.680] I just never thought I was better than anybody, man.
[52:12.680 -> 52:14.140] Like I literally never thought that.
[52:14.140 -> 52:17.280] I just, you know, and the way, you know,
[52:17.280 -> 52:20.880] my life has worked has just been, I'm like, man,
[52:20.880 -> 52:21.800] yeah, I worked hard.
[52:21.800 -> 52:26.640] I did work hard, but man, I was lucky, man. I got a lucky year.
[52:26.640 -> 52:29.960] And so knowing that, you know, keeps me,
[52:29.960 -> 52:33.120] it keeps me grounded and it keeps me humble
[52:33.120 -> 52:36.480] because if I think that I did this all myself,
[52:37.640 -> 52:40.720] yeah, man, I might be Superman, you know, if I think that,
[52:40.720 -> 52:44.640] but if I have the mindset that nah, you know, I was,
[52:44.640 -> 52:46.560] even the fact that my parents
[52:46.560 -> 52:49.000] were who my parents were, you know,
[52:49.000 -> 52:53.600] like they passed me down some genes that even allowed me to,
[52:53.600 -> 52:55.040] you know, to think the way I think
[52:55.040 -> 52:56.120] and behave the way I think.
[52:56.120 -> 53:00.000] So just thinking like that has kept me humble.
[53:00.000 -> 53:01.680] So here's one really briefly then,
[53:01.680 -> 53:03.960] because so many people will come on this podcast
[53:03.960 -> 53:07.240] and they take absolute responsibility for the good and the bad.
[53:07.240 -> 53:11.120] If you're telling us that the good happened because you were lucky, did you ever allow
[53:11.120 -> 53:15.880] yourself to accept that when you messed up, when you lost games and when you played poorly,
[53:15.880 -> 53:17.240] that you were just unlucky?
[53:17.240 -> 53:18.240] Absolutely.
[53:18.240 -> 53:19.240] Really?
[53:19.240 -> 53:26.120] Because, okay, for instance, I would go into a game and I mean, I would prepare to the nines.
[53:26.120 -> 53:31.120] Like, I mean, work my butt off for hours.
[53:31.160 -> 53:34.680] The exact same thing that I did against the Patriots.
[53:34.680 -> 53:37.480] The exact same thing that I did for most of my career.
[53:37.480 -> 53:40.300] There was no variance in the way I worked.
[53:40.300 -> 53:41.320] Everything was the same.
[53:41.320 -> 53:44.120] Like I knew that I had to dedicate myself
[53:44.120 -> 53:47.440] to what I was doing, otherwise I wouldn't succeed.
[53:47.440 -> 53:50.840] And I would go into a game and I would get dominated.
[53:51.760 -> 53:55.080] Putting the same work might've even worked harder
[53:55.080 -> 53:56.620] that particular week.
[53:56.620 -> 53:58.920] And you know, the ball bounced this way,
[53:58.920 -> 54:02.420] or you know, something didn't go correctly.
[54:02.420 -> 54:06.000] So am I now supposed to be like, you know,
[54:06.000 -> 54:08.400] if you have that mentality that,
[54:08.400 -> 54:10.880] okay, I'm going to put in
[54:10.880 -> 54:12.160] a massive amount of work
[54:12.160 -> 54:13.600] regardless of what happens,
[54:13.600 -> 54:15.760] then, you know, sometimes you're lucky
[54:15.760 -> 54:17.680] and sometimes you literally are unlucky.
[54:17.680 -> 54:20.160] There's nothing you could have done
[54:20.160 -> 54:22.240] that could have changed the outcome of
[54:22.240 -> 54:24.080] this particular situation.
[54:24.080 -> 54:26.000] And so, I would go home and, you know,
[54:26.000 -> 54:28.000] after wins or losses,
[54:28.000 -> 54:30.000] you know, a lot of times I would lose the game
[54:30.000 -> 54:31.000] and I would sleep soundly.
[54:31.000 -> 54:33.000] And the only reason why I was able to sleep soundly
[54:33.000 -> 54:36.000] was because I knew, like,
[54:36.000 -> 54:38.000] from my soul that I put in
[54:38.000 -> 54:41.000] every single ounce of me into
[54:41.000 -> 54:44.000] trying to be successful and trying to do my job.
[54:44.000 -> 54:46.840] And when you know you've done that,
[54:46.840 -> 54:50.400] if it doesn't work out, what do you attribute that to?
[54:50.400 -> 54:51.480] If you know what I mean.
[54:51.480 -> 54:53.320] See, I think what you're describing there
[54:53.320 -> 54:56.900] is like a textbook definition of optimism.
[54:58.040 -> 54:59.880] And I think there's a distinction
[54:59.880 -> 55:02.640] between not being optimistic and being positive.
[55:02.640 -> 55:04.640] People think being positive is you see the good
[55:04.640 -> 55:05.640] in every situation, being optimistic is say positive. People think being positive is you see the good in every situation.
[55:05.640 -> 55:08.600] Being optimistic is saying bad things can happen,
[55:08.600 -> 55:10.280] but I still think it'll get better.
[55:10.280 -> 55:14.400] And I think what you're describing is the language
[55:14.400 -> 55:16.760] and the mindset of an eternal optimist
[55:16.760 -> 55:18.880] as opposed to anything else.
[55:18.880 -> 55:20.280] Yeah, I agree, man.
[55:20.280 -> 55:23.760] One quick question just about the industry of the NFL.
[55:23.760 -> 55:27.680] I've watched the documentary on Aaron Hernandez
[55:27.680 -> 55:30.240] that was fascinating for lots of reasons,
[55:30.240 -> 55:33.440] but the one that I was interested in was the suffering
[55:33.440 -> 55:36.560] that a lot of players have had in their later careers
[55:36.560 -> 55:41.040] due to the physical toll on the brain.
[55:41.040 -> 55:45.000] How have you sort of squared that away with yourself?
[55:45.000 -> 55:47.000] That's a great question.
[55:47.000 -> 55:55.000] And I know, I'm fully aware of what the NFL and what playing football,
[55:55.000 -> 55:59.000] any contact sport or whatever at that high level,
[55:59.000 -> 56:01.000] I'm fully aware of the repercussions of it.
[56:01.000 -> 56:12.480] How have I squared it away? The way I like to look at it is nobody in this world gives you something for nothing.
[56:12.480 -> 56:24.440] And I retired when I was 33 and literally retired and I didn't have to work again for
[56:24.440 -> 56:27.500] like the rest of my life at 33.
[56:27.500 -> 56:31.880] And playing in the NFL allowed me to do that,
[56:31.880 -> 56:35.780] allowed me to take care of thousands of people in Nigeria,
[56:35.780 -> 56:37.300] allowed me to take care of my family,
[56:37.300 -> 56:40.820] allowed me to put my kids in the best schools
[56:40.820 -> 56:42.060] and to give them advantages
[56:42.060 -> 56:49.200] that pretty much very few people were gonna have. playing in the NFL gave me all of this.
[56:49.200 -> 56:52.080] And so in my head, there's a trade-off for that.
[56:52.080 -> 56:57.860] There's a pound of flesh, so to speak, that is going to be taken from you.
[56:57.860 -> 57:05.440] For me to expect to have all of that and just walk away scot-free is to me it was unrealistic
[57:05.440 -> 57:09.840] and it's not the way that I see the world working.
[57:09.840 -> 57:12.640] And so I've come to accept the fact that
[57:12.640 -> 57:15.920] there's going to be repercussions for doing what I did.
[57:15.920 -> 57:18.600] I've had numerous surgeries on my body.
[57:18.600 -> 57:21.200] I wake up in the morning, it's difficult.
[57:21.200 -> 57:23.600] You know, it takes me a while to, you know, get going.
[57:23.600 -> 57:26.120] But I'm literally okay.
[57:26.120 -> 57:29.680] I'm okay with that because for me,
[57:29.680 -> 57:33.800] everything that was given to me by this sport
[57:33.800 -> 57:36.960] outweighs the potential ramifications of what could happen.
[57:36.960 -> 57:37.800] That's powerful.
[57:37.800 -> 57:39.080] Because that fits with what you said about
[57:39.080 -> 57:42.080] the best teams you were, were a meritocracy.
[57:42.080 -> 57:43.960] Everything was fair and you knew it.
[57:43.960 -> 57:47.180] So that's entirely consistent with that. Really interesting way to finish. We have a meritocracy. Everything was fair and you knew it. So that's entirely consistent with that.
[57:47.180 -> 57:48.520] Really interesting way to finish.
[57:48.520 -> 57:50.940] We have a quick fire round and then we're done.
[57:50.940 -> 57:53.780] Absolutely unacceptable behaviors
[57:53.780 -> 57:55.780] that you would never tolerate either now
[57:55.780 -> 57:57.560] or when you were playing in the NFL.
[57:57.560 -> 57:59.240] What was the sort of, what was top of that list?
[57:59.240 -> 58:01.020] If there was one thing that someone brought to the table
[58:01.020 -> 58:02.240] and you were like, no.
[58:02.240 -> 58:05.520] I mean, I imagine with you probably too much of an ego.
[58:05.520 -> 58:07.160] That would be top of the list.
[58:07.160 -> 58:12.160] I could never stand people treating other people
[58:12.840 -> 58:14.040] in a demeaning way.
[58:14.040 -> 58:17.000] That's the one thing that is just like a no-no for me, man.
[58:17.000 -> 58:19.480] I just have never been about that.
[58:19.480 -> 58:22.480] So if I saw that, you know, that was,
[58:22.480 -> 58:24.040] that was definitely a no-go for me.
[58:24.040 -> 58:26.280] But other than that, I can't really think of anything
[58:26.280 -> 58:29.800] that really bothered me to, you know,
[58:29.800 -> 58:33.720] in a very tremendous way, but that right there was mm-mm.
[58:33.720 -> 58:37.320] So a slight deviation on that question.
[58:37.320 -> 58:39.440] What were the three non-negotiable behaviors
[58:39.440 -> 58:43.160] that you and everyone around you had to demonstrate?
[58:43.160 -> 58:44.840] Couldn't be a hypocrite.
[58:44.840 -> 58:47.120] That's not, so that's one of the things
[58:47.120 -> 58:48.640] that I really hate the most,
[58:48.640 -> 58:52.280] man, I hate when people like to hold other people accountable
[58:52.280 -> 58:53.800] but not themselves.
[58:53.800 -> 58:55.240] And I feel like you have to be,
[58:55.240 -> 58:57.680] you have to be able to take responsibility
[58:57.680 -> 59:01.880] as a person first before pointing the finger
[59:01.880 -> 59:03.640] at anybody else or blaming anybody else.
[59:03.640 -> 59:06.560] I believe you have to be able to, you know,
[59:06.560 -> 59:08.060] look at yourself first.
[59:08.060 -> 59:10.700] And that's gotten me into quite a bit of trouble, you know,
[59:10.700 -> 59:13.000] because I've come to realize that a lot of people
[59:13.000 -> 59:14.520] don't like to do that.
[59:14.520 -> 59:16.160] They don't like to take responsibility.
[59:16.160 -> 59:18.280] It seems to be quite a difficult thing to do.
[59:18.280 -> 59:19.840] And what would the other two?
[59:19.840 -> 59:20.900] I don't know, man.
[59:22.480 -> 59:23.760] I have to get back to this, man.
[59:23.760 -> 59:25.560] I have to get back to this, man, at some point.
[59:25.560 -> 59:27.840] What advice would you give a teenage OC
[59:27.840 -> 59:29.280] just starting out in life?
[59:30.460 -> 59:31.960] Stay away from those women.
[59:31.960 -> 59:33.080] No, I'm just kidding.
[59:33.080 -> 59:34.160] No, not at all.
[59:34.160 -> 59:35.240] No, not at all.
[59:35.240 -> 59:37.600] That went down pretty well.
[59:37.600 -> 59:38.440] Not at all.
[59:38.440 -> 59:43.240] I think, um, maybe, maybe relax a little bit more.
[59:43.240 -> 59:47.720] Enjoy, you know, the ride a little bit more, enjoy the ride a little bit more.
[59:47.720 -> 59:58.380] Yeah, I think that and learn to not be quite as hard on myself as I think I was a little
[59:58.380 -> 59:59.760] bit earlier.
[59:59.760 -> 01:00:05.000] I didn't really enjoy things the way I think I should have.
[01:00:05.000 -> 01:00:07.840] I remember when I got drafted, I wasn't even happy,
[01:00:07.840 -> 01:00:09.360] like when I got drafted,
[01:00:09.360 -> 01:00:11.960] which a lot of people find really strange,
[01:00:11.960 -> 01:00:13.880] but like when I got drafted, all I felt was pressure.
[01:00:13.880 -> 01:00:16.360] I was like, oh man, I got drafted pretty high.
[01:00:16.360 -> 01:00:17.760] Now I got to go perform.
[01:00:17.760 -> 01:00:22.040] And so I didn't really enjoy the way that I should have
[01:00:22.040 -> 01:00:23.080] at that particular time.
[01:00:23.080 -> 01:00:25.800] So that's the thing I would say.
[01:00:25.800 -> 01:00:29.400] So linked to that, how did you react to your greatest failure?
[01:00:29.400 -> 01:00:35.520] I think in the short term, you know, you're like,
[01:00:35.520 -> 01:00:37.760] man, this was bad.
[01:00:37.760 -> 01:00:40.160] But then when I sit back and I think about it,
[01:00:40.160 -> 01:00:43.080] it really is not that easy.
[01:00:43.080 -> 01:00:49.000] Like, I took it as a learning experience. You know, like I'm like, okay, I can literally
[01:00:49.000 -> 01:00:53.400] learn from this because it didn't kill me.
[01:00:53.400 -> 01:01:00.600] It didn't, you know, put me in the grave or set me back like ridiculously because I became,
[01:01:00.600 -> 01:01:10.520] I become like risk averse in some form or fashion. And so my failures have been in some way just like small, you know, in the grand scheme
[01:01:10.520 -> 01:01:11.520] of things.
[01:01:11.520 -> 01:01:15.720] It's not something that really, really hurt me the way that if I would have just taken
[01:01:15.720 -> 01:01:18.600] massive risks that I would have been hurt by.
[01:01:18.600 -> 01:01:20.160] So it's just a learning lesson.
[01:01:20.160 -> 01:01:24.480] I know not to do that again, you know, and that's pretty much it.
[01:01:24.480 -> 01:01:25.440] Are you happy?
[01:01:25.440 -> 01:01:27.160] Extremely, extremely.
[01:01:27.160 -> 01:01:28.000] Good.
[01:01:28.000 -> 01:01:29.720] Yeah, especially like-
[01:01:29.720 -> 01:01:30.560] You should be.
[01:01:30.560 -> 01:01:32.200] Especially being here, man.
[01:01:32.200 -> 01:01:33.520] Man, London is awesome.
[01:01:33.520 -> 01:01:35.560] Like, it's incredible.
[01:01:35.560 -> 01:01:36.880] I was asked the question the other day,
[01:01:36.880 -> 01:01:39.320] they were like, yo, where would you live
[01:01:39.320 -> 01:01:41.640] if you could live anywhere in the world?
[01:01:41.640 -> 01:01:42.800] It's here.
[01:01:42.800 -> 01:01:47.520] Like, man, people just don't understand how lucky you are to
[01:01:48.240 -> 01:01:53.200] be in an environment like this. Obviously, it has issues and it has problems, but
[01:01:53.920 -> 01:01:58.320] God, this place is incredible, man. How important is legacy to you?
[01:01:59.520 -> 01:02:11.120] Legacy is everything. If you think about it, when you leave here, a lot of people, it's almost
[01:02:11.120 -> 01:02:15.160] a way of being immortal in a way. It's like, okay, how do people think of you when you're
[01:02:15.160 -> 01:02:28.800] gone? My father passed away recently. And my father was, my father was, you know, he's Christian and he was in the, he
[01:02:28.800 -> 01:02:34.160] was in the East. And then the president of Nigeria is Muslim and he's in the North. And
[01:02:34.160 -> 01:02:39.080] if you understand the dynamics in Nigeria, the East and the North, they, I mean, you
[01:02:39.080 -> 01:02:42.840] know, they don't really get along. They fought a war, you know, and because the North is
[01:02:42.840 -> 01:02:48.720] Muslim, the East is Christian. And so they almost hate each other in a way. And so when my father passed away,
[01:02:49.680 -> 01:02:54.400] the president of the country, who's a Muslim in the North, sent a message, you know, saying,
[01:02:54.400 -> 01:03:01.680] oh, we mourn as a country the passing of this man, Igwe John Umeya, who was my father. And it sent
[01:03:01.680 -> 01:03:11.240] like shockwaves through the whole country because nobody from the North had ever done anything like that for somebody in the East before.
[01:03:11.240 -> 01:03:16.480] And so when I saw that, I wrote a message to my brothers and sisters and I was like,
[01:03:16.480 -> 01:03:21.680] man, if this doesn't show you what life is all about, what would?
[01:03:21.680 -> 01:03:27.360] This man left such a legacy that a Muslim man in the northern part
[01:03:27.360 -> 01:03:33.040] of the country who, you know, they're known for not liking, you know, he's actually sent a message
[01:03:33.040 -> 01:03:38.640] of condolence. And so for me, in a way that that triggered something in me, I was like, man,
[01:03:38.640 -> 01:03:44.000] you have to, because my father helped a lot of people. And so I was like, man, you have to help
[01:03:44.000 -> 01:03:45.520] as many people as possible, man, in this life, man, you have to help as many people as possible, man,
[01:03:45.520 -> 01:03:47.600] in this life, man, you have to,
[01:03:47.600 -> 01:03:49.920] because when you're gone, that stuff just,
[01:03:49.920 -> 01:03:53.000] it just pays forward in a way.
[01:03:53.000 -> 01:03:55.600] So legacy is extremely important to me, man.
[01:03:55.600 -> 01:03:56.920] I'm going to dedicate my life
[01:03:56.920 -> 01:03:59.560] to trying to help as many people as possible.
[01:03:59.560 -> 01:04:00.720] I'm sorry about your loss.
[01:04:00.720 -> 01:04:02.400] Yeah, I'm sorry, man, I appreciate that.
[01:04:02.400 -> 01:04:03.360] And the final question is,
[01:04:03.360 -> 01:04:06.840] your one golden rule to living a high performance life.
[01:04:06.840 -> 01:04:08.320] And this is for the people listening to this,
[01:04:08.320 -> 01:04:11.920] that don't have to be sports stars, not NFL players,
[01:04:11.920 -> 01:04:14.240] just the people tuning into this podcast.
[01:04:14.240 -> 01:04:16.600] What's your one sort of final message for them
[01:04:16.600 -> 01:04:18.520] for a life they'll love?
[01:04:19.480 -> 01:04:23.200] It's the actual golden rule, you know?
[01:04:23.200 -> 01:04:28.000] And it's simple, but if you actually live your life
[01:04:28.000 -> 01:04:32.480] according to that, it's incredible. All you have to do is literally treat people the way
[01:04:33.440 -> 01:04:38.000] you want to be treated, the way you would expect for somebody to treat you. You just treat them
[01:04:38.000 -> 01:04:45.020] that exact same way in every form or fashion. And I feel like if you do that,
[01:04:47.420 -> 01:04:49.960] your life is just, you know, you just bring back whatever you put out.
[01:04:49.960 -> 01:04:51.160] And I found that in my life,
[01:04:51.160 -> 01:04:52.760] and I treat everybody the same way
[01:04:52.760 -> 01:04:54.820] that I would expect them to treat me.
[01:04:54.820 -> 01:04:58.940] And it is the actual, known as the golden rule,
[01:04:58.940 -> 01:05:00.080] and I live like that.
[01:05:00.080 -> 01:05:02.280] Listen, that's been an amazing period
[01:05:02.280 -> 01:05:03.440] just to sit and talk to you like that.
[01:05:03.440 -> 01:05:06.440] Thank you so much for joining us, for the honesty, for the stories.
[01:05:06.440 -> 01:05:07.600] We've touched on all kinds of things.
[01:05:07.600 -> 01:05:09.880] I think the sort of one thing that stands out to me
[01:05:09.880 -> 01:05:12.160] from that conversation is that you're someone
[01:05:12.160 -> 01:05:14.840] who has chosen responsibility over fault.
[01:05:14.840 -> 01:05:17.280] So lots of things have happened over your life.
[01:05:17.280 -> 01:05:19.760] You've never chosen to blame those things.
[01:05:19.760 -> 01:05:22.120] You've just decided to push through and make it a success.
[01:05:22.120 -> 01:05:25.160] And you're an inspiration to many people,
[01:05:25.160 -> 01:05:27.280] whether they're here in the UK, in Nigeria,
[01:05:27.280 -> 01:05:28.440] in the United States.
[01:05:28.440 -> 01:05:31.840] And I suppose the biggest thing of all
[01:05:31.840 -> 01:05:34.000] is that you've clearly enjoyed the journey as well.
[01:05:34.000 -> 01:05:34.840] Absolutely, man.
[01:05:34.840 -> 01:05:35.680] Thank you guys for having me, man.
[01:05:35.680 -> 01:05:36.880] I really appreciate this.
[01:05:40.200 -> 01:05:41.040] Damien.
[01:05:41.040 -> 01:05:41.880] Jake.
[01:05:41.880 -> 01:05:43.760] That guy, he can tell a story.
[01:05:43.760 -> 01:05:44.840] Thought he was fantastic.
[01:05:44.840 -> 01:05:45.000] I think there was a real warmth to him. And I loved his energy when we got him on Damien. Jake. Y ffyrdd. Gall ddweud y stori. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn ddiddorol.
[01:05:45.000 -> 01:05:47.000] Rwy'n credu bod yna ddiddorol iawn i'w gilydd.
[01:05:47.000 -> 01:05:49.000] Rwy'n hoffi'r energia hwnnw pan gwnes iddo i'w gilydd
[01:05:49.000 -> 01:05:51.000] yn y pethau gyda'i gilydd mwyaf.
[01:05:51.000 -> 01:05:53.000] Mae'r energia hwnnw wedi mynd i lefel gwahanol
[01:05:53.000 -> 01:05:55.000] a dwi'n meddwl ei fod yn ddiddorol iawn
[01:05:55.000 -> 01:05:56.000] i fod yn y cwmni hon
[01:05:56.000 -> 01:05:57.000] a gallu gael ei profi.
[01:05:57.000 -> 01:06:00.000] Felly rydym nawr yn mynd i'r gweithgaredd ddeg o'r pot
[01:06:00.000 -> 01:06:01.000] ac o'r cyfarfodydd rydyn ni wedi'u cael
[01:06:01.000 -> 01:06:03.000] gyda'r holl bobl gwahanol
[01:06:03.000 -> 01:06:04.000] o'r holl lefelau o gyffredin
[01:06:04.000 -> 01:06:06.360] a gwahanol sgwrs a gwahanol busnesau a byddwyr bywyd. And of all the conversations we've had with all the different people from all levels of success and different sports and different businesses
[01:06:06.360 -> 01:06:08.200] and walks of life,
[01:06:08.200 -> 01:06:11.000] I don't think anyone has attributed luck
[01:06:11.000 -> 01:06:12.120] as strongly as he does.
[01:06:12.120 -> 01:06:13.280] That is a very rare thing,
[01:06:13.280 -> 01:06:15.180] particularly for an elite level sports person,
[01:06:15.180 -> 01:06:19.120] because it's kind of taking it away from a controllable.
[01:06:19.120 -> 01:06:21.480] Luck is an uncontrollable and they often avoid those.
[01:06:21.480 -> 01:06:24.280] Yeah, but then luck, one great definition of it,
[01:06:24.280 -> 01:06:26.880] it's where opportunity meets preparation. So I think the fact that you can recognise circumstances ac maen nhw'n amlwg eu gwahodd. Ie, ond yna, Look, un o'r definiadau gwych o'r cwmni, mae'n lle mae cyfle yn cymryd ymgyrchu.
[01:06:26.880 -> 01:06:27.840] Felly rwy'n credu bod y ffaith
[01:06:27.840 -> 01:06:30.480] y gallwch chi gwybod y cyfnodau sy'n ymgyrchu,
[01:06:30.480 -> 01:06:35.840] fel pan ddewisodd ei hyfforddwr i'r ysgolau ysgol Troi,
[01:06:35.840 -> 01:06:39.520] ond roedd yn rhaid iddo dynnu'r cyfle hwnnw.
[01:06:39.520 -> 01:06:41.720] Roedd yn rhaid iddo dynnu ei hyfforddwr arno,
[01:06:41.720 -> 01:06:43.200] sy'n un o'r ffrasau.
[01:06:43.200 -> 01:06:46.160] Felly mae rhai ymchwil gwych
[01:06:46.160 -> 01:07:05.000] ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar the phroblem. Mae yna ymchwil gwych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar y ffordd o edrych ar the problem. Mae yna ymchwil gwych ar y ffordd o edrych ar the ffordd o edrych ar the ffordd o edrych ar the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of edrych at the fordd of lucky people just think they're lucky. Unlucky people think they're unlucky.
[01:07:05.000 -> 01:07:07.000] And when you're presented with opportunities,
[01:07:07.000 -> 01:07:09.000] lucky people recognize them.
[01:07:09.000 -> 01:07:12.000] Unlucky people ignore them.
[01:07:12.000 -> 01:07:15.000] So I think whilst he attributes it to luck,
[01:07:15.000 -> 01:07:18.000] he still had to go at it with that mindset
[01:07:18.000 -> 01:07:21.000] of seeing an opportunity and being prepared to take it.
[01:07:21.000 -> 01:07:23.000] And you could see the sort of the anguish
[01:07:23.000 -> 01:07:29.560] when we talk about how he makes his children struggle because they won't need to struggle from a financial perspective.
[01:07:29.560 -> 01:07:33.560] But I think you get the impression that a guy who left the UK to go to Nigeria,
[01:07:33.560 -> 01:07:38.560] to go to America, to struggle at school, to be given a great opportunity to thrive in the NFL,
[01:07:38.560 -> 01:07:43.560] to find a career afterwards working as a broadcaster, his kids will be just fine.
[01:07:43.560 -> 01:07:45.040] Because I think
[01:07:45.040 -> 01:07:49.840] he understands what you need to do in this world to be successful, doesn't he?
[01:07:49.840 -> 01:07:54.720] Yeah, I do. And I think this is something that has come out a lot in our conversations
[01:07:54.720 -> 01:08:00.400] with these high performers, is that it's the values that you pass on. While your experiences
[01:08:00.400 -> 01:08:07.000] might be very different, his children won't be transplanted from one country to go and gallai'r arbenigion fod yn wahanol iawn. Nid ydyn nhw'n cael eu trafod o un llyfrgell i fynd i byw yn Nigeria fel un arall.
[01:08:07.000 -> 01:08:11.000] Y pwysau o ddathlu pobl gyda'r ddiddorol,
[01:08:11.000 -> 01:08:12.000] ddathlu nhw'n unig,
[01:08:12.000 -> 01:08:14.000] ymdrechu gyda'r hynny,
[01:08:14.000 -> 01:08:15.000] yw, yw,
[01:08:15.000 -> 01:08:16.000] yw,
[01:08:16.000 -> 01:08:25.840] yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw, yw,r nesaf ac rydw i ddim yn ddiwg, bydd ei plant yn byw
[01:08:25.840 -> 01:08:27.760] mewn popeth byddant yn ddewis ymwneud â nhw.
[01:08:27.760 -> 01:08:29.440] A phob un sy'n clywed hyn sy'n meddwl
[01:08:29.440 -> 01:08:31.560] bod yn perfformiad cyhoeddiol,
[01:08:31.560 -> 01:08:33.240] mae angen i chi fod yn argyfwng,
[01:08:33.240 -> 01:08:36.440] a'n ddifrifol a'n ymdrech.
[01:08:36.440 -> 01:08:38.160] Clywedwch Osi, gwrthwynebhwch Osi
[01:08:38.160 -> 01:08:39.760] a'ch gwybod eich bod yn gallu
[01:08:39.760 -> 01:08:41.360] gynllunio'r byd
[01:08:41.360 -> 01:08:42.680] a mae'n dal i fod yn hyderus.
[01:08:42.680 -> 01:08:45.280] Ie, rwy'n credu, rwy'n cael llawer o bobl
[01:08:45.280 -> 01:08:47.120] sy'n clywed y cyfnod cyntaf
[01:08:47.120 -> 01:08:49.160] ar hyn o bryd ac maen nhw'n dweud
[01:08:49.160 -> 01:08:51.920] fel, beth yw'r ymgyrch ynghylch?
[01:08:51.920 -> 01:08:53.520] Ac y ffordd rwy'n ei ddweud
[01:08:53.520 -> 01:08:55.160] yw'r ffaith pa mor ffyrdd
[01:08:55.160 -> 01:08:57.000] mae'r rhai o'r dynion hwn.
[01:08:57.000 -> 01:08:58.120] Ac rwy'n credu y gallwch
[01:08:58.120 -> 01:08:59.120] ymdrech yna,
[01:08:59.120 -> 01:08:59.680] ond rwy'n credu
[01:08:59.680 -> 01:09:01.240] dyna'r sgwrs o'u hun.
[01:09:01.240 -> 01:09:02.080] Maen nhw'n gwybod
[01:09:02.080 -> 01:09:03.000] efallai y byddant yn ymwneud
[01:09:03.000 -> 01:09:04.880] mewn un ardal o'u bywyd
[01:09:04.880 -> 01:09:07.800] ond maen nhw hefyd yn gwybod beth dydyn nhw ddim yn gwybod mewn ardalau eraill ac maen nhw wedi'r hynod o'r cyfnod the superpower of them. They recognize that they might be skilled in one area of their life, but they also know what they don't know in other areas.
[01:09:07.800 -> 01:09:11.280] And they've got the humility to be able to ask questions
[01:09:11.280 -> 01:09:14.720] and be curious and decent as well.
[01:09:14.720 -> 01:09:17.480] And I think he was a perfect epitome of that.
[01:09:17.480 -> 01:09:18.600] Another great listen.
[01:09:18.600 -> 01:09:19.440] Brilliant.
[01:09:19.440 -> 01:09:22.720] ♪♪
[01:09:22.720 -> 01:09:24.800] Damien, it's been another week of just sort of
[01:09:24.800 -> 01:09:26.680] constant messages coming into us about
[01:09:26.680 -> 01:09:31.400] the impact that this podcast is making with people. I mean, we saw one from someone saying
[01:09:31.400 -> 01:09:36.200] the podcast literally saved their life. And I mean, it's the kind of thing that it's hard
[01:09:36.200 -> 01:09:39.560] to get our head around, isn't it? And I know you've been having lots of comments from lots
[01:09:39.560 -> 01:09:40.560] of people as usual.
[01:09:40.560 -> 01:09:48.000] Yeah, definitely, Jake. I think it's mind blowing,r, Jake. Rwy'n credu bod hyn yn mynd i'r ffyrdd, sut mae pobl yn cymryd hyn, ac rwy'n gwrando'n fawr,
[01:09:48.000 -> 01:09:52.000] a'n bwysigach na chymryd y syniadau hwn o
[01:09:52.000 -> 01:09:55.000] perfformiwrs cyhoeddiant i'w bywydau eu hunain.
[01:09:55.000 -> 01:09:58.000] Roedd hynny'r sylwad o'r rhai rydyn ni'n ei wneud, ac mae'n ddiddorol
[01:09:58.000 -> 01:10:00.000] i fod yn ymwybodol o'r sylwad honno.
[01:10:00.000 -> 01:10:03.000] A diolch i bawb. Nick Hyde, rwy'n cael gwybodaeth o'r
[01:10:03.000 -> 01:10:05.280] PEM, Mr J, Stuart Griffith,
[01:10:05.280 -> 01:10:10.240] Steve Birch, Fran in Derbyshire, Simon Allison, Rachel Atherton, who's world champion mountain
[01:10:10.240 -> 01:10:15.440] bike racer. Loads of brilliant comments, loads of thoughts. This is the one I wanted to share
[01:10:15.440 -> 01:10:20.400] with you now though, and it says, the joy of me only discovering the high performance podcasts
[01:10:20.400 -> 01:10:26.000] is that I've downloaded all the shows I get to listen to one a night on my walks. So on tonight's walk, I listened to Johnny Wilkinson.
[01:10:26.000 -> 01:10:32.000] Never, and I mean never, has a podcast made me stop, stand still, and listen like this.
[01:10:32.000 -> 01:10:35.000] I was just in awe. What a man, what an outlook.
[01:10:35.000 -> 01:10:37.000] It just blew me away. Great stuff.
[01:10:37.000 -> 01:10:41.000] I've taken something from every conversation, whether I've heard of the guest,
[01:10:41.000 -> 01:10:44.000] whether I've liked the guest or not, they've all given me food for thought.
[01:10:44.000 -> 01:10:49.200] And I can hear Jake and Damien questioning and probing and being very reflective.
[01:10:49.200 -> 01:10:52.920] I'm not sure how any interview could trump this one for me. Thank you so much. You're
[01:10:52.920 -> 01:10:57.320] truly making a difference. And I'm sure I'm speaking for a lot of people, not just me.
[01:10:57.320 -> 01:11:00.920] That came in from Martin. And the reason why I wanted to pick up on that one, Damien, is
[01:11:00.920 -> 01:11:08.500] because there is lots of messages like that. But of all the podcast episodes we've done, and Johnny Wilkinson remains the most popular, the most downloaded,
[01:11:08.500 -> 01:11:13.180] the most listened to, it's also the one that divides people the most. And we live in a
[01:11:13.180 -> 01:11:18.080] world now where we surround ourselves, particularly because of social media, with people who share
[01:11:18.080 -> 01:11:23.680] the same viewpoint as us. So I think it's really powerful to keep on searching for people
[01:11:23.680 -> 01:11:26.320] with a different viewpoint who even don't necessarily agree with. Felly rwy'n credu bod e'n lawr gallu gweithio ar ymweliadau i bobl o ran ymdrechion gwahanol a ddim yn ymwneud â'i ymdrechu.
[01:11:26.320 -> 01:11:27.120] Yn siŵr.
[01:11:27.120 -> 01:12:05.840] Mae'r ffras o'r ddifrifiaeth cyfieithuog yn ysgrifennu'r hyn rydyn ni'n ei amlwg i bobl ddod allan o'r jacob hon. Mae'r syniad o fod bywyd ddim yn neu'n neg, mae'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrorol ychydig o ddynion o pherson. Mae'n ddweud eich bod chi eitha' i gyd, neu i gyd.
[01:12:05.840 -> 01:12:08.640] Ie, dwi'n credu bod cyfnod cymdeithasol yn rhan fwyaf
[01:12:08.640 -> 01:12:12.000] yn ymdrechu'r math o meddwl binari
[01:12:12.000 -> 01:12:14.480] yw eich bod chi eitha'
[01:12:14.480 -> 01:12:16.720] oedd yn ymddangos i fod y penderfyniad
[01:12:16.720 -> 01:12:17.920] y byddwch chi eitha'
[01:12:17.920 -> 01:12:20.160] yn ddiddorol am Donald Trump neu rydych chi'n cerdded am Donald Trump
[01:12:20.160 -> 01:12:21.280] yn hytrach na'r brif ymdrech
[01:12:21.280 -> 01:12:23.360] na'r penderfyniad am Donald Trump.
[01:12:23.360 -> 01:12:29.480] Pam ddim y gallwch chi fod yn neutral yn y sefydliad honno? rather than why can't you just not have an opinion on Donald Trump? Why can't you just be neutral in that position? It almost doesn't allow neutrality and
[01:12:29.480 -> 01:12:32.640] people to be independent in their thought. And I think what's really
[01:12:32.640 -> 01:12:35.440] important if you're listening to this and you're thinking actually yeah I you
[01:12:35.440 -> 01:12:38.840] know I do struggle with people that have a different viewpoint and I just sort of
[01:12:38.840 -> 01:12:43.920] shoot them down and search for someone that agrees. A growth mindset is a
[01:12:43.920 -> 01:12:46.000] mindset that wants different opinions,
[01:12:46.000 -> 01:12:49.280] that wants people to challenge them, that wants to, in the words of Julian Wilkinson
[01:12:49.280 -> 01:12:54.800] as we're talking about that episode, wants to explore. It's so important. You might surprise
[01:12:54.800 -> 01:12:58.520] yourself and I think people listen to this pod, they want to hear more about a growth
[01:12:58.520 -> 01:13:02.560] mindset, Damien, and it's probably a good place to start challenging your own thinking.
[01:13:02.560 -> 01:13:06.720] Exactly. I think a growth mindset is often about going into a phrase that me and you y byddai'n lle da i ddechrau, yn herio'ch meddwl eich hun. Yn unig, rwy'n credu bod y meddwl gwych yn ymwneud â mynd i mewn i
[01:13:06.720 -> 01:13:08.320] un ffrase y dymunwch a ddefnyddwch
[01:13:08.320 -> 01:13:09.840] yn eich unig, yw'r syniad o
[01:13:09.840 -> 01:13:11.600] mynd i'r ffyrdd o hyder,
[01:13:11.600 -> 01:13:13.200] lle pan ydych chi yno, ydych chi'n
[01:13:13.200 -> 01:13:14.240] ymdrechu yr hyn y gwyddoch chi,
[01:13:14.240 -> 01:13:15.520] y gwyddoch chi ddim yn gwybod pethau,
[01:13:15.520 -> 01:13:17.040] y byddwch chi'n ddiddorol, y byddwch chi'n
[01:13:17.040 -> 01:13:18.480] gofyn cwestiynau yn hytrach na
[01:13:18.480 -> 01:13:20.800] cyfrifiau, y byddwch chi'n
[01:13:20.800 -> 01:13:22.880] ymwneud â'ch ddysgu yn hytrach na
[01:13:22.880 -> 01:13:23.920] gwneud yn siŵr eich bod chi'n
[01:13:23.920 -> 01:13:25.000] ddeall. Yn unig, yw hynny'r ymdwch chi'n ceisio deall yn hytrach na gwneud yn siŵr eich bod chi'n deall.
[01:13:25.000 -> 01:13:29.000] Mae'r holl beth hwn yn y llwybrau o ddewis ffyned.
[01:13:29.000 -> 01:13:32.000] Ac y mwyaf y gallwn ei ddatblygu, y mwyaf byddwn yn ddigon gwybod
[01:13:32.000 -> 01:13:36.000] a'n gydweithiol, pan fyddwn yn cael cymhwyster neu ddifrif.
[01:13:36.000 -> 01:13:39.000] Rwy'n ymddangos i'ch cwipau rydych chi'n eu rhoi ar Instagram,
[01:13:39.000 -> 01:13:41.000] os nad yw unrhyw un arall wedi'u ddod o hyd iddo.
[01:13:41.000 -> 01:13:43.000] At Legal Thinker yw lle gallwch chi ddod o hyd, Damien.
[01:13:43.000 -> 01:13:45.000] Beth yw'r cwipau rdech chi'n ei roi am...
[01:13:45.000 -> 01:13:47.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:47.000 -> 01:13:48.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:48.000 -> 01:13:49.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:49.000 -> 01:13:50.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:50.000 -> 01:13:51.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:51.000 -> 01:13:52.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:52.000 -> 01:13:53.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:53.000 -> 01:13:54.000] ...yn ymwneud ag yw...
[01:13:54.000 -> 01:13:56.000] ...an opinion yw'r ffordd fawr iawn o gwybodaeth,
[01:13:56.000 -> 01:13:58.000] angen ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:13:58.000 -> 01:13:59.000] angen ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:13:59.000 -> 01:14:00.000] angen ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:14:00.000 -> 01:14:01.000] neu ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:14:01.000 -> 01:14:02.000] neu ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:14:02.000 -> 01:14:03.000] neu ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:14:03.000 -> 01:14:04.000] neu ddim oedolbwynt,
[01:14:04.000 -> 01:14:26.560] neu ddim oedolbwynt, neu ddim oedolbwynt, neu ddim oedolbwynt, nei'r pwynt yw'r pwynt yw'r bod yn rhaid i chi nei'r pwynt mwyaf o'i gwybodaeth yw'r ymdrech, oherwydd ein pwynt yw'n rhaid i chi ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig ychydig that empathy of just listening to somebody, whether you agree with them, whether you even know anything about them. Step into their world for an hour
[01:14:26.560 -> 01:14:28.200] and see it from their perspective
[01:14:28.200 -> 01:14:31.160] and you'll start to understand why they do what they did.
[01:14:31.160 -> 01:14:32.000] Well, do you know what, Damien?
[01:14:32.000 -> 01:14:33.780] Maybe that is what people should do this week.
[01:14:33.780 -> 01:14:35.840] Maybe that should be the challenge for them.
[01:14:35.840 -> 01:14:38.920] If they find themselves wanting to silence
[01:14:38.920 -> 01:14:41.680] and control all of the other thoughts
[01:14:41.680 -> 01:14:42.660] that come into their mind,
[01:14:42.660 -> 01:14:44.480] maybe this week search for someone
[01:14:44.480 -> 01:14:45.000] that challenges your opinion and see how it leaves you after seven days y rhai arall sy'n dod i mewn i'r meddwl, efallai y dydd hwn, ymchwilio ar rhywun sy'n herio eich syniad
[01:14:45.000 -> 01:14:46.000] a gweld sut mae'n rhaid i chi,
[01:14:46.000 -> 01:14:47.000] ar ôl sefydl da,
[01:14:47.000 -> 01:14:49.000] i gyd yn lwys i'r bwysigrwydd
[01:14:49.000 -> 01:14:50.000] a'r cyfrifoldeb
[01:14:50.000 -> 01:14:52.000] o ran ymddygiadau pobl eraill.
[01:14:52.000 -> 01:14:54.000] Sut y gallai'n beth ddifrifol?
[01:14:54.000 -> 01:14:55.000] Sut y gallai'n gynnyrchu?
[01:14:55.000 -> 01:14:56.000] Rwy'n credu ei fod yn beth ddifrifol, Jake.
[01:14:56.000 -> 01:14:58.000] Rwy'n credu yna, mae'n rhaid i ni ddeall
[01:14:58.000 -> 01:15:01.000] a gallu cymryd ymddygiad
[01:15:01.000 -> 01:15:02.000] gyda phobl eraill.
[01:15:02.000 -> 01:15:03.000] Mae yna ddifrifol gwych
[01:15:03.000 -> 01:15:04.000] a dweud fy mhob amser
[01:15:04.000 -> 01:15:06.080] gyda fi, a dweud, byddwn yn gwneud yr un penderfyniad os oedd yna ddiafelad gwych y myfyrwyr fy mhob amser gyda mi sy'n dweud
[01:15:06.080 -> 01:15:08.720] byddwn yn gwneud yr un penderfyniad os oeddwn i chi.
[01:15:08.720 -> 01:15:09.960] Ac mae'r pwynt y mae'n ei wneud o hynny yw
[01:15:09.960 -> 01:15:11.240] os oeddwn wedi byw eich bywyd
[01:15:11.240 -> 01:15:13.440] a'r profiadau a'r gwybodaeth
[01:15:13.440 -> 01:15:14.320] y byddwn wedi eu cael
[01:15:14.320 -> 01:15:16.000] byddwn wedi dod i'r un
[01:15:16.000 -> 01:15:17.920] cyflawniad yr oeddwn wedi'u gwneud.
[01:15:17.920 -> 01:15:19.360] Ac rwy'n credu pan fyddwn yn ymddygiad
[01:15:19.360 -> 01:15:20.800] gallwn ddod i mewn i bywydau rhywun
[01:15:20.800 -> 01:15:21.840] ac geisio deall
[01:15:21.840 -> 01:15:22.800] pam oeddent wedi gwneud rhywbeth
[01:15:22.800 -> 01:15:24.400] yn hytrach na'u ymddygiad.
[01:15:24.400 -> 01:15:26.000] Gallwn geisio gwneud syniad o hynnyach na'u ymdrech. Gallwn ni gynnal
[01:15:26.000 -> 01:15:27.000] syniad o hynny.
[01:15:27.000 -> 01:15:28.000] Rwy'n credu mai dyna'n brifysgrif.
[01:15:28.000 -> 01:15:30.000] Sôn, Damien, diolch fel bob amser
[01:15:30.000 -> 01:15:31.000] ar y podcast High Performance.
[01:15:31.000 -> 01:15:32.000] Rwy'n hoffi, diolch Jake.
[01:15:32.000 -> 01:15:33.000] Rydyn ni'n siarad â'n gilydd
[01:15:33.000 -> 01:15:34.000] ar y ddechrau o'r
[01:15:34.000 -> 01:15:35.000] Osiyu Minyora.
[01:15:35.000 -> 01:15:36.000] Rwy'n credu
[01:15:36.000 -> 01:15:37.000] pan fydd pobl wedi clywed hwn,
[01:15:37.000 -> 01:15:38.000] eto, bydd e'n mynd i'w hymdrechu
[01:15:38.000 -> 01:15:39.000] mewn ffordd gwahanol, dydy'n i?
[01:15:39.000 -> 01:15:41.000] Rwy'n hoffi'r energia yn y stryd
[01:15:41.000 -> 01:15:42.000] pan ydyn ni'n siarad âd.
[01:15:42.000 -> 01:15:43.000] Ie, roedd e'n ffantastig.
[01:15:43.000 -> 01:15:46.680] Rwy'n meddwl, roedd e'n dod i mewn ac mae'r holl ddweun yw rhai o bobl yn llunio stryd pan maen nhw'n ei ddod o. Rhai o bobl yn llunio stryd I loved his energy in the room when we spoke to him. Yeah, he was fantastic. I thought he was, he came in and there's that old saying
[01:15:46.680 -> 01:15:48.680] that some people light up a room when they leave it,
[01:15:48.680 -> 01:15:50.280] some people light it up when they walk in
[01:15:50.280 -> 01:15:52.860] and he was definitely somebody that lit us all up.
[01:15:52.860 -> 01:15:53.700] Brilliant.
[01:15:53.700 -> 01:15:55.000] Listen, thanks so much for your time, mate.
[01:15:55.000 -> 01:15:57.040] As always, hugely appreciate it.
[01:15:57.040 -> 01:15:58.560] Thanks very much to all the people as well
[01:15:58.560 -> 01:16:01.640] who work on the High Performance Podcast,
[01:16:01.640 -> 01:16:05.160] Hannah and Will and Finn, who's involved as well.
[01:16:05.160 -> 01:16:06.680] We couldn't do it without any of them.
[01:16:06.680 -> 01:16:09.800] Don't forget to keep checking back for more, rate the podcast, review the podcast, find
[01:16:09.800 -> 01:16:12.280] us on YouTube, check us out on Instagram.
[01:16:12.280 -> 01:16:16.240] But this week, just make sure that you don't mind a difference of opinion, you just mind
[01:16:16.240 -> 01:16:17.240] hatred.
[01:16:17.240 -> 01:16:18.240] Approach like that.
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