E40 - Eddie Jones: How to relentlessly pursue perfection

Eddie Jones one of the most experienced and decorated coaches in Rugby Union and the current head coach of England. Since taking over in in 2015, Eddie has orchestrated a complete revival of the national team, winning the Six Nations back-to-back, including England’s first Grand Slam in a generation and their first-ever whitewash of Australia in their own backyard. Eddie also led the team on their longest-ever winning streak, matching the world record held by the All Blacks.

Eddie’s career has spanned four World Cups: from the 2003 final, working with South Africa when they won in 2007, and causing one the greatest upsets in the game when he masterminded the Japanese victory over South Africa in 2015. Most recently, he led England on their incredible run at the 2019 World Cup, culminating in a stunning victory against the All Blacks before falling to South Africa in the final.

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## Episode Summary: Eddie Jones on High Performance, Mindset, and Coaching Strategies

**Key Insights:**

- High performance is a dynamic concept that constantly changes and requires adaptation.
- To achieve high performance, it's essential to have the right people, vision, and environment.
- Effective coaching involves observing and understanding the unique characteristics of players and creating a program that supports their development.
- Cultivating self-belief is crucial for players to perform at their best.
- A coach's ability to read a room and understand the nuances of player interactions is a valuable skill.
- Teaching and coaching share similarities in terms of developing individuals and building their capabilities.
- The distinction between teaching and coaching lies in the ultimate goal: winning in coaching and building the child in education.
- Belief in oneself and one's abilities can positively impact performance.
- A stroke experienced by Eddie Jones led to a shift in his perspective, fostering greater understanding and compassion for others.
- Finding the right balance between discipline and guidance is essential for effective leadership.
- Exploring a relationship with God can provide a sense of purpose and direction.
- Defining oneself solely by one's profession can be limiting; it's important to recognize the multifaceted nature of identity.
- The four pillars of coaching—physical, tactical, technical, and mental—require a balanced approach, with a focus on mental and tactical aspects.
- Technical skills at the international level are less emphasized compared to team organization and shared thinking.
- Transferability of coaching skills across different sports or professions can be challenging.
- The pursuit of the perfect game drives Eddie Jones' passion for coaching, aiming for a team that dominates the entire 80 minutes of a match.

**Memorable Quotes:**

- "I want to catch the perfect game."
- "Imagine going out there and you're impossible to play against. Impossible. When you've got the ball, they can't get it off you. When they've got the ball, they've got so much pressure, they're giving it back to you, and that's unrelenting. That would be fascinating."

**Summary of the Podcast Episode**

In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, the guest is Eddie Jones, one of the most experienced and decorated coaches in Rugby Union, and the current head coach of England. The podcast delves into Eddie's illustrious career, spanning four World Cups and numerous successes with different teams.

**Eddie's Coaching Philosophy**

Eddie emphasizes the importance of players embracing the grind and working hard to achieve their goals. He believes that the ability to absorb the grind and maintain high standards separates the great players from the average ones. He also stresses the need for focus and avoiding distractions to optimize performance.

**The Importance of Balance**

While Eddie acknowledges the necessity of relentless dedication for high-level performance, he also recognizes the importance of achieving a balance in life. He suggests making adjustments to one's work schedule to accommodate personal well-being and family commitments.

**Connecting with Players**

Eddie highlights the significance of establishing a strong connection with players to motivate and inspire them. He believes in finding ways to tap into each player's unique motivations and creating a pathway for them to achieve their goals. He shares an example of how he connected with a shy Afrikaans player, helping him blossom into a global star.

**Day One in a New Job**

Eddie shares his tips for making a successful start in a new job. He emphasizes the importance of setting a clear vision and direction for the team, creating a sense of purpose and excitement, and empowering players to take ownership of their roles. He also highlights the need to be adaptable and willing to make changes when necessary.

**Dealing with Failure**

Eddie acknowledges that failure is an inevitable part of the cycle of success. He stresses the importance of taking time to reflect on failures, acknowledging mistakes, and learning from them. He believes in minimizing the cycle of failure by promoting self-regulation within the team and empowering players to drive their own success.

**Eddie's Golden Rule for a High-Performance Life**

Eddie's golden rule for living a high-performance life is to stay focused on what's important and to work towards achieving specific goals. He emphasizes the need to identify the key factors that contribute to success and to relentlessly pursue those objectives.

**Key Takeaways**

* The importance of embracing the grind and maintaining high standards for achieving success.
* The need for focus and avoiding distractions to optimize performance.
* The significance of establishing a strong connection with players to motivate and inspire them.
* The importance of setting a clear vision and direction for a team, creating a sense of purpose and excitement.
* The necessity of being adaptable and willing to make changes when necessary.
* The inevitability of failure and the importance of learning from mistakes.
* The need to stay focused on what's important and relentlessly pursue specific goals.

**Navigating the Journey of High-Performance Coaching: Insights from Eddie Jones**

In this insightful podcast episode, Eddie Jones, the highly acclaimed coach in Rugby Union and current head coach of England, shares his wealth of knowledge and experience gained over four World Cups and numerous coaching triumphs. Jones emphasizes the significance of focusing on the process rather than the outcome, highlighting that the true measure of success lies in the journey itself.

Jones's coaching philosophy revolves around creating an environment where players are encouraged to think openly and receptively, allowing them to be impacted by the collective wisdom of the team. He stresses the importance of embracing new ideas and being willing to adapt and learn from mistakes.

Drawing from his experiences with the South African and Japanese teams, Jones emphasizes the value of meticulous planning and preparation. He believes that success is not a result of chance but rather a product of careful strategizing and execution.

Jones's approach to coaching extends beyond the technical aspects of the game, encompassing a holistic understanding of the players' mental and emotional well-being. He recognizes the importance of fostering a strong team culture, where players feel supported and empowered to reach their full potential.

Throughout the episode, Jones underscores the significance of resilience and perseverance in the face of adversity. He shares anecdotes from his coaching career, demonstrating how teams can overcome challenges and setbacks through unwavering determination and a belief in their abilities.

Jones's insights offer valuable lessons for aspiring coaches and leaders in any field. He emphasizes the need for continuous learning, adaptability, and a genuine care for the individuals one leads. By embracing these principles, coaches can create a high-performance environment that fosters success and personal growth.

[00:00.000 -> 00:06.840] Hi there, welcome along to this week's high performance podcast. Can I just start by saying
[00:06.840 -> 00:12.400] a huge thank you to all of you for downloading and talking about and sharing the podcast.
[00:12.400 -> 00:17.160] The numbers for this series, for series four are just through the roof and we are delighted
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[00:25.360 -> 00:31.120] sit and build your own personal armour up. It's lessons for life. It's tips and tricks
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[00:36.080 -> 00:41.600] And today's episode is once again going to teach you so, so much. Here's what you can
[00:41.600 -> 00:42.600] expect.
[00:42.600 -> 00:46.000] I want to catch the perfect game.
[00:46.000 -> 00:48.000] In a game of rugby, if you can control
[00:48.000 -> 00:50.000] 50 minutes of the game, you'll win the game.
[00:50.000 -> 00:52.000] I want a team that can control it
[00:52.000 -> 00:54.000] for 80 minutes. Imagine going out there
[00:54.000 -> 00:56.000] and you're impossible to play against. Impossible.
[00:56.000 -> 00:58.000] When you've got the ball, they can't get it
[00:58.000 -> 01:00.000] off you. When they've got the ball,
[01:00.000 -> 01:02.000] they've got so much pressure, they're giving it
[01:02.000 -> 01:04.000] back to you, and that's unrelenting.
[01:04.000 -> 01:05.840] That'd be fascinating.
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[03:24.440 -> 03:46.840] I really can't wait for you to hear this. It's one of my favorite episodes. details. podcast, part of your weekly ritual to make your life richer and greater than ever. Thanks for being with us. This week's
[03:46.840 -> 03:48.960] episode is a cracker. Here it is.
[03:52.440 -> 03:55.040] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey, and you're listening to High
[03:55.040 -> 03:57.760] Performance, the podcast that delves into the minds of some of
[03:57.760 -> 04:00.720] the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs and
[04:00.720 -> 04:04.000] artists on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to
[04:04.000 -> 04:10.800] their success. With me, fi fel bob amser, athrawon, professor, lector, fan o rugby, Damien Hughes, rwy'n gwybod pam rydych chi'n smilio.
[04:10.800 -> 04:18.000] Ie, rwy'n mwynhau'r podcast hwn, Jake. Rydyn ni'n y cwmni o'r alchemist sy'n hyfforddi,
[04:18.000 -> 04:24.000] rhywun sy'n gwneud pob sefyllfa'n well i'w gynhyrchu a'i hyfforddi, ac mae'n ymwneud â hyn drwy ddatblygu a hyfforddi pobl,
[04:24.000 -> 04:26.000] felly rwy'n credu mai'n ddiogel iawn i fod yma.
[04:26.000 -> 04:28.000] Mae'n ddiddorol i ni gysylltu â nhw.
[04:28.000 -> 04:31.000] Rydyn ni'n ddiddorol iawn i gyd i ddod â'r arwydd hwnnw.
[04:31.000 -> 04:34.000] Roedd yn chwaraewr rygbi, cyn i'w ddod â'r arwydd.
[04:34.000 -> 04:38.000] Mae wedi bod yn ymwneud ag nifer o wahanol rhan o'r 25 mlynedd diwethaf.
[04:38.000 -> 04:42.000] Ond nid oedd e'n hawdd i gyd o ran ddiddorol i ddod â swydd fawr.
[04:42.000 -> 04:44.000] Nid oedd e'n hollol am rygbi.
[04:44.000 -> 04:45.640] Beth am fod yn fwyrwyr? Beth wnaeth hynny ei wneud i gydnabod ein gwestiwn am y rôl sydd gennyn nhw heddiw? from a serious illness to losing a job he loved. And it's also not all been about rugby. What about being a teacher?
[04:45.640 -> 04:47.640] What did that do to equip our guest
[04:47.640 -> 04:49.900] for the role that he has today?
[04:49.900 -> 04:51.480] It's also not just about sport.
[04:51.480 -> 04:52.960] How does he get to the heart,
[04:52.960 -> 04:55.120] not just the head of his players?
[04:55.120 -> 04:57.620] It's an absolute pleasure to welcome to the podcast,
[04:57.620 -> 05:00.280] the England rugby head coach, Eddie Jones.
[05:00.280 -> 05:01.320] Hi boys.
[05:01.320 -> 05:02.320] Pleasure to be here.
[05:02.320 -> 05:03.720] Mate, thanks very much for joining us.
[05:03.720 -> 05:07.780] So in your mind, what is high performance?
[05:09.800 -> 05:13.640] Well, I'm not sure I think you're always just striving to be better
[05:13.640 -> 05:21.560] I think when you're high performing you've got a number of things working. You've got the right people. You've got the right vision
[05:22.600 -> 05:24.600] You've got the right environment
[05:24.880 -> 05:26.840] But it changes all the time
[05:27.160 -> 05:33.220] So I can't I don't think you could say this is high performance. I think it's constantly changing
[05:33.220 -> 05:38.980] It's dynamic and and your ability to to observe and read what's needed for that
[05:39.360 -> 05:44.760] Environment at that time is the most important thing. So could you talk us through the process that you go through to?
[05:47.000 -> 05:50.040] observe that time is the most important thing. So could you talk us through the process that you go through to observe, engage the environment around you and how you react to it?
[05:50.040 -> 05:51.460] Maybe some real world examples
[05:51.460 -> 05:53.440] of when you've had to change things.
[05:53.440 -> 05:55.920] Yeah, probably the best example is Japan.
[05:56.960 -> 05:58.400] So I went there,
[05:59.680 -> 06:03.300] a team that hadn't won a World Cup game for 20 years.
[06:03.300 -> 06:05.360] Their average score against the top 10 country
[06:05.360 -> 06:11.320] was 85-0 defeat. So the first thing I knew I had to change was the way they thought,
[06:11.320 -> 06:16.200] because they were happy to be losers and the whole rugby environment were happy for them
[06:16.200 -> 06:22.720] to lose as long as they played well in the last 20 or 30 minutes of a game. So we just
[06:22.720 -> 06:27.040] kept painting the picture in their head of what they could
[06:27.040 -> 06:32.480] do. So we're a small team, can we play faster than anyone else? Yes, we can. Can we play
[06:32.480 -> 06:38.520] smarter? Yes, we can. And then we created the program to support that. So it was just
[06:38.520 -> 06:50.160] constantly driving that message, we're going to be the fastest, smartest team in the world. Train like it, we've changed the training day to three times a day, which the players
[06:50.160 -> 06:55.460] hated initially, but by the end they saw it as a medal of honour that they were able to
[06:55.460 -> 06:58.360] train harder than any other team.
[06:58.360 -> 07:02.840] And it shows you where you can take people, because the story shows they did well at the
[07:02.840 -> 07:07.000] 2015 World Cup and did even better at the 2019 World Cup.
[07:07.000 -> 07:14.000] See that to me seems like quite a powerful approach that you take Eddie, that in every team that you go into,
[07:14.000 -> 07:19.000] from the Brumbies right the way through to England, that you don't come in with one set way,
[07:19.000 -> 07:22.000] you seem to adapt and be almost a chameleon to the environment.
[07:22.000 -> 07:27.580] What kind of things do you look for that give you a clue as to what you're going to shape
[07:27.580 -> 07:28.580] it to be?
[07:28.580 -> 07:31.280] I think history is always one of the most important.
[07:31.280 -> 07:36.320] The history of the team, the history of the players, the history of the society they're
[07:36.320 -> 07:37.320] in.
[07:37.320 -> 07:43.480] You know, I think you've got to understand how the players live their lives because that
[07:43.480 -> 07:45.160] will give you an indication of how they approach
[07:45.160 -> 07:54.900] their sport. And then you look at the people, look at the people closely, see what they've
[07:54.900 -> 08:01.400] been through, what desires they have and how we're going to get some commonality.
[08:01.400 -> 08:05.660] So you don't treat the whole team as the same you work very much individually
[08:06.480 -> 08:11.140] Well, I think you know what he's talking about teaching one of the things I learned from teaching. Is that
[08:12.200 -> 08:17.880] Initially I did first couple years. I did I think you call it supply teaching here. Yes, right where
[08:19.120 -> 08:24.740] Traditionally you get all the worst classes. So, you know teachers a day off when they have the worst classes, so they generally
[08:24.060 -> 08:30.180] the worst classes. So, you know, a teacher has a day off when they have the worst classes. So they're generally 15, 16-year-old boys. So I'd have the same 15, 16-year-old boys
[08:30.180 -> 08:37.020] for six lessons, you know, be it maths, geography, PE. And you walk into a classroom like that
[08:37.020 -> 08:47.560] and you've got to work out, right, who do I need to control? Who's going to help me? What areas of the room I don't have to worry about?
[08:47.560 -> 08:52.320] So your ability to get a feel for the group,
[08:52.320 -> 08:53.720] I think, is important.
[08:53.720 -> 08:56.200] And certainly in teams, it's the same.
[08:56.200 -> 08:58.080] You walk into a team for the first time
[08:58.080 -> 09:00.080] and you look at the players, you think, right,
[09:00.080 -> 09:02.800] who do I need on my side here immediately?
[09:02.800 -> 09:04.520] Who do I need to get rid of?
[09:04.520 -> 09:05.140] Who can maybe
[09:05.140 -> 09:08.380] I can keep and then you're working with those players.
[09:08.380 -> 09:12.860] So what characteristics do you look for then, Addy, when you walk into a room like that?
[09:12.860 -> 09:15.800] So if it's somebody that you want to keep?
[09:15.800 -> 09:21.620] People that are going to be a positive influence, that either have a massive work ethic or have
[09:21.620 -> 09:29.160] great character, like, you know, probably Probably a good examples Haskell with England. He'd been a bits and pieces player and
[09:29.800 -> 09:31.800] He had something about him
[09:31.920 -> 09:35.880] And and you could tell the boys liked him, but he was
[09:36.560 -> 09:42.840] He wasn't possibly brave enough to be himself like a big physical guy play like that
[09:42.840 -> 09:46.080] Don't be afraid to make mistakes and then be that life of the
[09:46.440 -> 09:51.960] Party type character off the field and you wanted that for him. How did you get him to that place then?
[09:53.160 -> 09:56.160] What's always the the communication you have with them?
[09:56.680 -> 10:02.000] I think at the start of the Six Nations. I guaranteed him a spot for the whole tournament
[10:03.000 -> 10:07.440] To make him believe yeah, and maybe to take a bit of pressure off as well?
[10:07.440 -> 10:09.080] Yeah, take the pressure off him.
[10:09.080 -> 10:13.760] Because you always, and you guys know better than anyone, that you're always either trying
[10:13.760 -> 10:18.200] to put pressure on or you're trying to take pressure off and your ability to read what
[10:18.200 -> 10:21.360] they need at that particular time is important.
[10:21.360 -> 10:25.520] See, but one of the great skills that I would attribute to you Eddie is your ability to read a room. Mae'n bwysig. Ond un o'r sgiliau gwych y byddwn i'n ei ddifrifio i chi Eddie
[10:25.520 -> 10:28.320] yw eich gallu i ddysgu ystafell.
[10:28.320 -> 10:31.120] Fe wnaethon ni Dylan Hartley ar y podcast
[10:31.120 -> 10:34.240] sy'n ddweud y stori y gwnes i chi i'ch llyfr eich hun
[10:34.240 -> 10:37.280] am eich gweld o ran sut y sgwrsodd
[10:37.280 -> 10:39.560] un o'r staff ar Penihill Park
[10:39.560 -> 10:41.880] a sut y gwnes i'w ddysgu gyda'i ddiddorol.
[10:41.880 -> 10:44.560] Beth fyddech chi'n dweud yw y sgiliau i ddatblygu
[10:44.560 -> 10:46.240] y gallu i ddysgu ystafell y gallai unrhyw un sy'n clywed hynny ddysgu? how he treated them with courtesy. What would you say are the skills to develop that ability to read a room
[10:46.240 -> 10:48.840] that anyone listening to this could adopt?
[10:48.840 -> 10:51.600] Go and watch a general manager of a hotel.
[10:51.600 -> 10:53.880] I learnt more from general managers of hotels
[10:53.880 -> 10:55.560] than anywhere else.
[10:55.560 -> 10:58.000] I used to have a mate who had a hotel,
[10:58.000 -> 10:59.480] a Millennium Hotel around here
[10:59.480 -> 11:02.280] and he used to run the Takeo Hilton
[11:02.280 -> 11:03.720] and I'd go and have dinner with him.
[11:03.720 -> 11:07.400] He was a rugby fan and I'd just go and have dinner with him and I'd watch him and we'd
[11:07.400 -> 11:09.880] have dinner and he'd give me full attention.
[11:09.880 -> 11:16.200] But he'd be able to see whether that way to put down the knives and forks correctly and
[11:16.200 -> 11:19.640] then he'd call them over and give them a word straight away.
[11:19.640 -> 11:23.040] It was a brilliant lesson in observation, you know.
[11:23.040 -> 11:26.440] You've got to be with with the person you you're with
[11:26.680 -> 11:32.160] But at the same time be able to just keep an eye on what's going on and deal with it immediately
[11:32.520 -> 11:35.320] That's not something that comes easy though to a lot of people
[11:35.320 -> 11:41.720] I wonder apart from just observing how you honed that ability because one thing you can't do as a rugby coach is
[11:42.040 -> 11:46.020] Become myopic you can't get obsessed. Can you on one minute bit of detail?
[11:46.020 -> 11:48.620] You've got a number of hats that you wear
[11:49.060 -> 11:52.260] I'm always fascinated by how you wear all those different hats
[11:52.260 -> 11:57.880] But make the person you're with at that moment feel like they're getting everything all of Eddie Jones
[11:57.980 -> 12:03.860] Yeah, I think teaching helped definitely teaching helped. Are you surprised lots of teachers listen to this podcast?
[12:03.860 -> 12:07.580] I know because I think teaching like coaching
[12:07.580 -> 12:09.060] is becoming more complex
[12:10.020 -> 12:12.000] and they're having to deal with more things.
[12:12.000 -> 12:14.140] But I think, as I said, with teaching,
[12:14.140 -> 12:17.220] you had to, because you had the welfare of the kids.
[12:17.220 -> 12:19.820] So you got 30 kids, you've got to be looking
[12:19.820 -> 12:21.900] and put yourself in the position
[12:21.900 -> 12:24.340] to watch those kids closely,
[12:24.340 -> 12:25.800] be looking at the little nuances
[12:25.800 -> 12:31.840] between kids, seeing, like the school I first taught at was quite rough, so I had to be
[12:31.840 -> 12:35.560] careful that the kids didn't break out in the fight, so you had to be watching, you
[12:35.560 -> 12:38.440] had to be ready to intervene.
[12:38.440 -> 12:42.520] And I think, you know, one of the problems we've got in sport at the moment, and I can
[12:42.520 -> 12:45.040] probably speak more about rugby than any other sport, is that we've got a sport at the moment, and I can probably speak more about rugby than any other
[12:45.040 -> 12:49.000] sport, is that we've got a lot of kids now not being taught by teachers.
[12:49.000 -> 12:51.760] Sport, they're being taught by ex-players.
[12:51.760 -> 12:55.240] And I think it's a fundamental flaw in education.
[12:55.240 -> 13:02.480] You need, kids need to be taught, and they don't need to be caged at an early age.
[13:02.480 -> 13:05.240] And we're trying to turn high school teams
[13:05.240 -> 13:06.560] into high performance teams
[13:06.560 -> 13:08.840] where they should be just development teams.
[13:08.840 -> 13:12.040] That's one of my, probably one of my bugbears at the moment.
[13:12.040 -> 13:13.640] So what would you say is a distinction
[13:13.640 -> 13:16.160] between teaching and coaching?
[13:16.160 -> 13:19.360] Well, the end result, you know, with teaching,
[13:19.360 -> 13:22.560] it's, you're always just trying to get the best
[13:22.560 -> 13:24.400] out of the people.
[13:24.400 -> 13:25.240] With coaching, whilst you're getting the best out of the people with coaching.
[13:25.240 -> 13:26.440] Whilst you're getting the best,
[13:26.440 -> 13:28.840] you can have a happy team and you have a contended team
[13:28.840 -> 13:31.040] and a driven team, but if you're not winning,
[13:31.040 -> 13:32.920] you don't get to do it anymore.
[13:32.920 -> 13:36.520] So you've got to drive that to be an effective currency
[13:36.520 -> 13:39.080] in coaching, and the currency in coaching is winning.
[13:39.080 -> 13:43.520] The currency in education is building the child up.
[13:43.520 -> 13:50.440] One thing I'm really interested in talking about on this podcast is is self-belief and we often discuss the fact that
[13:50.700 -> 13:52.880] You might be wrong in thinking you can do anything
[13:53.200 -> 13:58.960] But there's no benefit to thinking that you can't you might as well believe it and if it happens then great and what you spoke
[13:58.960 -> 14:01.880] About there when you discussed working with the Japanese team at the beginning
[14:01.880 -> 14:05.620] You said we decided to tell them that they'd be the quickest team in the world the
[14:05.620 -> 14:10.780] Best team in the world the the power of your mind is such a it's such a huge topic on this podcast
[14:11.500 -> 14:16.620] How important do you think it is and do you believe you can get any player to be a better player by believing?
[14:16.620 -> 14:18.420] They're a better player. I
[14:18.420 -> 14:26.640] Think it helps it definitely helps. I I think I read Wenger's book recently and he was talking about how
[14:26.640 -> 14:32.760] he'd tell every player that they were the special player today. And you'd have 11 special
[14:32.760 -> 14:38.560] players there. But getting players to believe, making them feel good, that think, feel, act
[14:38.560 -> 14:43.680] is so true. So you've got to get them to believe in themselves and believe in their strengths.
[14:43.680 -> 14:49.960] And the really good players are the ones who manufacture their own game and they play to
[14:49.960 -> 14:50.960] their strengths.
[14:50.960 -> 14:55.360] Like, the not-so-good players are the players who don't understand what they can and can't
[14:55.360 -> 14:56.360] do.
[14:56.360 -> 15:01.720] You know, and the great examples, you know, most test cricketers are great examples of
[15:01.720 -> 15:03.200] finding their own game.
[15:03.200 -> 15:06.600] You know, particularly batsmen who bat over 50
[15:06.600 -> 15:09.480] are the guys who cultivate their game.
[15:09.480 -> 15:11.640] They might have a lot of different shots,
[15:11.640 -> 15:13.440] but they don't play those shots because they
[15:13.440 -> 15:16.800] know that the shots that they can play to be a successful test
[15:16.800 -> 15:18.360] critter is this amount.
[15:18.360 -> 15:20.320] Steve Wall was a great example.
[15:20.320 -> 15:22.960] First came in the Australian side, had every shot.
[15:22.960 -> 15:27.980] Average 30, got dropped, went back to club cricket and made himself say couldn't get out
[15:28.120 -> 15:34.480] And came back to test cricket was on the greatest batsman of all time. But how do you cultivate belief in yourself? I do
[15:36.720 -> 15:38.720] Really got no idea
[15:38.720 -> 15:40.240] I
[15:40.240 -> 15:43.480] Think one of the things that helped me I had a stroke in
[15:44.200 -> 15:50.620] 2013 and before that I thought I was superman. Yeah, nothing could stop me. I thought I was
[15:51.140 -> 15:52.700] Okay cage
[15:52.700 -> 15:54.980] And probably since then I've become a lot more
[15:55.940 -> 16:02.980] I don't know whether the words compassionate but a lot more understanding of other people and that they don't have the same
[16:03.100 -> 16:09.960] Obsession for me for winning and and doing things correctly that they can do it in their own way and that's probably
[16:09.960 -> 16:16.600] helped me create a better a better version of myself I think I think I'm
[16:16.600 -> 16:22.560] not sure so Eddie before the stroke and Eddie after it what would somebody see
[16:22.560 -> 16:32.280] is the biggest difference between those two I think that I understand now more about people's own internal motivations and they won't be
[16:32.280 -> 16:34.280] the same as mine.
[16:34.280 -> 16:38.400] I wanted my daughter, who's now 27, to be exactly like me.
[16:38.400 -> 16:40.260] Driven, and she wasn't.
[16:40.260 -> 16:46.060] She was a pretty happy-go-lucky kid didn't play sport hard
[16:51.240 -> 16:51.680] Studied okay. I remember she got to grade eight in the violin at the age of 12
[16:57.800 -> 16:58.680] Because because my wife wanted her to play the violin and then she just quit she said no, I'm not playing anymore
[17:03.560 -> 17:07.860] And she's turned out that she's she went to university in England and she's turned out now She's working in rugby in Australia and she's you know, she's at it all the time
[17:07.860 -> 17:14.180] So it's it's funny how things turn around. But yeah, I think I think I understand people's motivations better now
[17:14.180 -> 17:18.160] so before the stroke people who weren't buying into your level of
[17:19.120 -> 17:20.520] discipline and
[17:20.520 -> 17:21.540] motivation
[17:21.540 -> 17:28.240] What did you think before the stroke was the right way to deal with those people? and what do you think now is the right way because we have a lot of leaders
[17:28.240 -> 17:32.160] that listen to this that struggle with getting the people in their team to come on the journey
[17:32.160 -> 17:33.160] with them?
[17:33.160 -> 17:37.800] Yeah I think you know it was more of a do what I say and if you don't do what I say
[17:37.800 -> 17:42.800] well I don't have much room for you and now I think it's more a balance of sometimes you've
[17:42.800 -> 17:47.300] got to still do that, but now guiding
[17:47.300 -> 17:52.100] people to where they can go and particularly players now, like younger players now, needed
[17:52.100 -> 17:57.860] to be guided and they're much better educated players now, much better educated in their
[17:57.860 -> 18:02.460] psychological aspects, social aspects, skill aspects.
[18:02.460 -> 18:07.000] So your ability to give them opportunities to find the best way to do it
[18:07.000 -> 18:12.760] themselves rather than you telling them I think is the most important distinction.
[18:12.760 -> 18:14.800] So why did the stroke do that?
[18:14.800 -> 18:20.240] I think it made me realise that you just can't keep going, you can't keep doing it. You know,
[18:20.240 -> 18:26.680] I was relentless. I'd work and work and work. And when I had the struggle, I had to slow down a little bit
[18:26.680 -> 18:29.680] and I had to think, you know, I found God in that time.
[18:29.680 -> 18:31.480] I went to church.
[18:32.560 -> 18:37.280] And so it was a pretty significant event in my life.
[18:37.280 -> 18:40.560] See, what intrigues me on that Eddie is that
[18:40.560 -> 18:42.800] you'd almost had a warning before this, hadn't you?
[18:42.800 -> 18:45.280] I've heard you speak about your experience at Queensland,
[18:45.280 -> 18:49.000] where you would react into what happened with Australia
[18:49.000 -> 18:53.360] and you almost acted in haste and repented in leisure.
[18:54.240 -> 18:56.360] Why didn't you learn the lesson at Queensland,
[18:56.360 -> 18:58.960] but it took something like a stroke
[18:58.960 -> 19:01.160] to finally make you aware?
[19:01.160 -> 19:02.720] I think I was on the road,
[19:02.720 -> 19:11.400] but I think the stroke hastened the journey so to speak and made me realize I needed to change and probably I wanted
[19:11.400 -> 19:14.880] to change before and I think there's a big difference between wanting and
[19:14.880 -> 19:21.360] needing. Sure, so what did Mrs Jones say about the difference? Yeah we've had a
[19:21.360 -> 19:26.920] up-and-down relationships at times but I think she just takes me for what I am
[19:27.500 -> 19:31.280] Yeah, we've she's she's been fantastic in that
[19:31.480 -> 19:38.480] She's always there and supporting but she's she she never has an active role so to speak which Eddie do you think she prefers?
[19:39.880 -> 19:41.880] I'm not sure
[19:42.380 -> 19:51.240] She keeps you getting I'm not sure She keeps you getting I'm interested Um to just explore that relationship with God and why that that's been significant for you and for your career
[19:51.240 -> 19:54.580] How's that change thing? Ah, just it made me realize
[19:56.040 -> 20:03.480] that I think we're all on on earth for some sort of purpose and and and maybe the only thing I
[20:03.680 -> 20:05.000] Can be good at is coaching,
[20:05.000 -> 20:10.000] so I wanted to make sure I maximised what I was supposed to be on earth for.
[20:10.000 -> 20:16.000] There's again that great story out of Wegner's book where he goes up to heaven
[20:16.000 -> 20:19.000] and the guy at the gate comes up to him and he says,
[20:19.000 -> 20:21.000] what do you do, sir?
[20:21.000 -> 20:22.000] Or what did you do, sir?
[20:22.000 -> 20:25.080] And he says, I tried to win games of football and
[20:28.840 -> 20:29.600] And then the guy looks at me and says surely you did something more meaningful than that
[20:36.400 -> 20:37.020] So do you let being a rugby coach define you entirely? We've had Johnny Wilkinson who obviously, you know well on this podcast
[20:39.400 -> 20:40.280] He told us that doing the washing up
[20:47.040 -> 20:47.220] Is no less important than winning the Rugby world cup because to win a game of rugby you use your body to achieve a goal
[20:51.380 -> 20:51.480] The washing up is the same thing and that if he put more importance on being a rugby player
[20:53.680 -> 20:53.920] Than a dad or a husband or doing the washing up
[20:58.420 -> 20:59.480] No longer being a rugby player means he's less important and he wasn't willing to accept that
[21:06.080 -> 21:07.120] Do you define yourself as a as a rugby coach? I probably define myself as someone who
[21:13.920 -> 21:18.240] has the opportunity to to help improve people so I think that's pretty important and I did as a teacher and now I'm doing as a coach so that's that's I think that's pretty important to me.
[21:18.240 -> 21:22.800] I would like to talk about the episode with Australia when you lost your job. What did
[21:22.800 -> 21:25.160] that period teach you?
[21:25.160 -> 21:28.480] Well, I can remember losing it and thinking,
[21:28.480 -> 21:29.920] I remember we went down to Canberra,
[21:29.920 -> 21:30.760] we were living in Sydney,
[21:30.760 -> 21:32.720] went down to Canberra and going shopping
[21:32.720 -> 21:34.520] on a Saturday afternoon in Canberra.
[21:34.520 -> 21:36.640] And I'd cached down there successfully.
[21:36.640 -> 21:39.640] And people were looking at me as though I've committed murder
[21:41.160 -> 21:43.000] and that was probably my perception.
[21:44.720 -> 21:45.460] But again, that was a tough period. And it was probably my perception But
[21:45.460 -> 21:48.180] again, that was a that was a tough period and
[21:48.580 -> 21:53.220] I was talking to another coach the other day that just lost his job and and one of the things I
[21:53.380 -> 21:56.800] Would have done is sat down for six months. I would have gone
[21:57.340 -> 22:01.240] Maybe float down the Amazon or something and just thought about everything
[22:01.240 -> 22:07.000] I did what I what I needed to change, what did I do well, and
[22:07.000 -> 22:08.320] what did I need to change.
[22:08.320 -> 22:13.760] And I was in too much of a hurry to prove people wrong, and that ended up, I didn't
[22:13.760 -> 22:17.280] coach well for probably another two years after that.
[22:17.280 -> 22:23.560] I was still hell-bent on proving people wrong rather than just coach and just enjoy the
[22:23.560 -> 22:26.160] coaching process, which is what I do now.
[22:26.160 -> 22:28.400] I love, I love coaching.
[22:28.400 -> 22:31.600] I love making a team and trying to make a team stronger.
[22:31.800 -> 22:36.560] If we talk about your coaching ability, then, Eddie, if we think about the four pillars
[22:36.560 -> 22:39.680] of physical, tactical, technical and mental,
[22:40.680 -> 22:44.240] where do you apportion most of your energy as a coach?
[22:44.360 -> 22:47.000] Well, I think tactical and mental are almost the same.
[22:47.000 -> 22:48.400] Go on, say more about that.
[22:48.400 -> 22:52.800] Well, I think the mental side is how you're thinking about the game,
[22:52.800 -> 22:56.600] and the tactical side is just the employment of those thoughts.
[22:56.600 -> 22:59.000] And I think they've always got to fit together.
[22:59.000 -> 23:03.200] I've been lucky enough to have some great people supporting me.
[23:03.200 -> 23:07.840] I've got a guy called David Pembroke in Australia
[23:07.840 -> 23:12.680] who cultivates the media strategy.
[23:12.680 -> 23:18.160] And I don't follow it 100% because some of his ideas are way out here.
[23:18.160 -> 23:21.200] But he wants to control the environment.
[23:21.200 -> 23:24.480] And the best one was for that New Zealand semi.
[23:24.480 -> 23:27.940] We immediately went out on the attack at the start of the week
[23:27.940 -> 23:32.360] We wanted the New Zealand media to try to put pressure on the New Zealand team, you know
[23:32.360 -> 23:34.760] We called them fans. We called the journalists
[23:35.540 -> 23:37.540] fans with keyboards
[23:37.760 -> 23:44.800] and and he created that idea of circling the all-blacks during their Haka so I
[23:44.000 -> 23:46.240] that idea of circling the All Blacks during their haka. So I use those sort of people.
[23:46.240 -> 23:51.360] I've got another sports psych who is a tactician,
[23:51.360 -> 23:52.640] absolute tactician.
[23:52.640 -> 23:55.680] So he'll say, they'll be thinking this,
[23:55.680 -> 23:57.000] you're going to be thinking this.
[23:57.000 -> 23:58.400] Now, how can you employ that?
[23:58.400 -> 24:00.800] And he's got some weird and wonderful ideas.
[24:00.800 -> 24:02.360] Again, we don't use them all.
[24:02.360 -> 24:04.800] But I think that's one of the things probably
[24:04.800 -> 24:12.660] being able to do OKs is get that's synergetic if that makes sense. Yeah, and I think all the other stuff's the easy stuff
[24:13.760 -> 24:18.940] Brilliant in what ways are easy or getting players fits easy. Yeah, it's just effort
[24:18.940 -> 24:24.680] It's having the right program having good coaches and and what was the other pillar?
[24:25.720 -> 24:28.000] program, having good coaches and what was the other pillar? The physical, tactical, technical and mental.
[24:28.000 -> 24:33.240] Technical at our level is not a great, at international level we don't really coach
[24:33.240 -> 24:34.240] rugby.
[24:34.240 -> 24:37.800] We're just trying to get a team organised, thinking the same way.
[24:37.800 -> 24:41.480] So when we interviewed Clive Woodward then, he spoke about the transferability of those
[24:41.480 -> 24:47.000] skills whether that was to his business or whether he felt he could go into soccer
[24:47.000 -> 24:48.000] and do it there.
[24:48.000 -> 24:50.000] What's your view on that?
[24:50.000 -> 24:51.000] Zero.
[24:51.000 -> 24:54.000] I've got no transferability.
[24:54.000 -> 24:55.000] I'd love to.
[24:55.000 -> 24:56.000] That's not true because you've just,
[24:56.000 -> 24:58.000] you've spoken about the fact that your career
[24:58.000 -> 24:59.000] started out as teaching.
[24:59.000 -> 25:00.000] Yeah.
[25:00.000 -> 25:02.000] I wonder whether you'd ever consider going back to teaching.
[25:02.000 -> 25:03.000] I'd love to, mate.
[25:03.000 -> 25:05.840] I'd love to be a director of sport at a big public school.
[25:05.840 -> 25:10.960] Imagine on a Thursday afternoon walking around telling the kid to keep his elbow up.
[25:10.960 -> 25:12.960] Come on, come on, run a bit straighter there.
[25:12.960 -> 25:13.960] It'd be fantastic.
[25:13.960 -> 25:16.080] So why haven't you done that?
[25:16.080 -> 25:20.760] What is it, like what's the itch that still keeps you coming into the furnace of international
[25:20.760 -> 25:21.760] rugby?
[25:21.760 -> 25:23.580] I want to catch the perfect game.
[25:23.580 -> 25:26.560] How close have you got to coaching the perfect game?
[25:26.560 -> 25:30.440] Someone asked me the other day. The first year I cached, I cached our reserve grade
[25:30.440 -> 25:38.880] team in my club team and we led at half time 32-0 and it was almost perfect rugby. Second
[25:38.880 -> 25:46.560] half we weren't so good. But now, in a game of rugby, if you can control 50 minutes of the game, you'll win the game.
[25:46.560 -> 25:50.480] And I want a team that can control it for 80 minutes.
[25:50.480 -> 25:53.200] Imagine going out there and you're impossible to play against.
[25:53.200 -> 25:54.200] Impossible.
[25:54.200 -> 25:56.240] When you've got the ball, they can't get it off you.
[25:56.240 -> 26:00.160] When they've got the ball, they've got so much pressure, they're giving it back to you,
[26:00.160 -> 26:01.160] and that's unrelenting.
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[29:16.000 -> 29:22.320] So what would you say would be the ingredients of a perfect game then for a team? So if you had to,
[29:23.520 -> 29:25.960] so if you could instill characteristics in that team,
[29:25.960 -> 29:29.160] what would they be doing that would deliver that outcome?
[29:29.160 -> 29:31.040] They have to love the grind, mate.
[29:31.040 -> 29:33.600] Because, you know, all the good things in sport
[29:33.600 -> 29:35.120] are hard work.
[29:35.120 -> 29:37.840] You know, there's nothing in sport that comes easily.
[29:37.840 -> 29:40.640] So the ability of the best players,
[29:40.640 -> 29:43.360] and I think it goes to coaches too,
[29:43.360 -> 29:45.160] the ability of the best players and the best
[29:45.160 -> 29:50.640] coaches is to keep doing it and don't get bored by it. Don't take any shortcuts, be
[29:50.640 -> 29:56.280] insistent on standards, keep those standards high, never drop off and that's what, that
[29:56.280 -> 30:00.440] separates the really great players from the good players and the good players from the
[30:00.440 -> 30:06.800] average players. Their ability to absorb that grind. Because everyone thinks sports fun and fantastic,
[30:06.800 -> 30:09.000] and it is when you watch it.
[30:09.000 -> 30:13.600] But the actual process of putting that into place is hard work.
[30:13.600 -> 30:16.400] One of the things that people often ask us about
[30:16.400 -> 30:18.400] when they listen to these podcast episodes
[30:18.400 -> 30:22.600] is they question whether it's good for us to talk about the grind
[30:22.600 -> 30:26.160] and the effort and the sacrifice and the struggle
[30:27.600 -> 30:32.980] Because they they worry about the mental health impacts on people feeling they have to struggle to be successful
[30:33.760 -> 30:37.120] Where do you stand on thinking you have to struggle to be successful?
[30:37.280 -> 30:43.360] Yeah, well, I think yeah high performance if you have that term high performance is is not the environment for everyone
[30:43.600 -> 30:46.920] Yeah, yeah, and I think we've got to be quite clear about that.
[30:46.920 -> 30:49.200] For some people it's not right.
[30:49.200 -> 30:51.840] And there's other environments you can be in.
[30:51.840 -> 30:57.080] But if you choose to be in that environment, then you choose to make that decision to absorb
[30:57.080 -> 31:03.100] that, the pain, the choice of how you go about things.
[31:03.100 -> 31:06.000] And to me then, of course you've always got to worry
[31:06.000 -> 31:07.000] about the welfare of the player.
[31:07.000 -> 31:10.000] And I think increasingly today we've got to be more careful
[31:10.000 -> 31:12.000] about the welfare of the players.
[31:12.000 -> 31:15.000] But the players make that choice and coaches make that choice.
[31:15.000 -> 31:17.000] So do you enjoy the grind?
[31:17.000 -> 31:19.000] I love it, mate.
[31:19.000 -> 31:23.000] You know, I usually at the end of a tournament I get sick
[31:23.000 -> 31:26.440] because I miss that grind.
[31:26.440 -> 31:33.200] So how rounded do you think somebody can be if they choose to go into a high performance
[31:33.200 -> 31:34.200] environment?
[31:34.200 -> 31:38.560] Look, I've seen a lot of really good coaches be very rounded.
[31:38.560 -> 31:40.240] I don't think everyone can be.
[31:40.240 -> 31:43.000] I don't think I'm a very rounded person.
[31:43.000 -> 31:45.720] Watching rugby and Match of the Day is probably not too rounded is it?
[31:46.720 -> 31:48.040] but
[31:48.040 -> 31:53.920] Yeah, I think you can be you've just got to make the right choice and you've got to work out you you work plan
[31:54.160 -> 31:56.400] Yeah, I'll give you an example for me. I was
[31:57.360 -> 32:03.840] Acting principal at this high school and we had our daughter and my wife said you can't be working 15 16 hours a day
[32:01.760 -> 32:04.560] and we had our daughter and my wife said, you can't be working 15, 16 hours a day.
[32:04.560 -> 32:08.360] So I cut back and I used to go in there
[32:08.360 -> 32:12.920] Monday morning at 3 a.m. and work feverishly
[32:12.920 -> 32:16.720] for about five or six hours before everyone came in
[32:16.720 -> 32:18.600] to get the week organized.
[32:18.600 -> 32:22.920] And you can change the way you work to get a better balance.
[32:22.920 -> 32:25.040] Regardless of your career or industry,
[32:25.040 -> 32:27.680] do you think that to be at the elite level,
[32:27.680 -> 32:31.220] to get to the top, that is the level of
[32:31.220 -> 32:32.980] relentless dedication that's required?
[32:32.980 -> 32:34.460] Can you get there without that?
[32:34.460 -> 32:36.140] I think you have to have focus.
[32:36.140 -> 32:37.560] I think focus is a big thing.
[32:37.560 -> 32:41.860] I don't think the number of hours or the time
[32:41.860 -> 32:43.760] or the volume of work is the important thing.
[32:43.760 -> 32:46.040] I think it's the focus and yeah again
[32:46.040 -> 32:52.960] I one of the books I've read and I've spoken to this guy's that Cal Newport who's written deep work and just your ability to
[32:53.360 -> 32:56.080] to work out when you're the most productive and
[32:56.360 -> 33:00.200] And make sure you set that time to do the best for people in the modern world
[33:00.200 -> 33:06.560] It is social media and constant this era of information and to do the most difficult work when you're at your best
[33:06.560 -> 33:08.960] And then when you know, when are you at your best?
[33:09.880 -> 33:11.800] Either early in the morning or late at night
[33:11.800 -> 33:16.640] So, how do you cut through all of the shit at that time a day to just focus?
[33:16.640 -> 33:21.640] Well, I usually go in about 5 a.m. And 5 a.m. To 6 a.m. Is usually my most productive time
[33:21.640 -> 33:25.240] But then after that I train, where I usually get
[33:25.240 -> 33:29.760] some good thoughts, where I'm not even thinking, but I usually get a couple of good thoughts
[33:29.760 -> 33:34.240] for the day and then I'll go back to the office. So generally from five to about eight is my
[33:34.240 -> 33:39.080] best time. And the rest of the day I don't try to do anything serious, apart from just
[33:39.080 -> 33:43.240] work with the players. And then I'll do a little bit at night again if I'm in the right
[33:43.240 -> 33:44.240] mood.
[33:44.240 -> 33:47.000] So to ask a personal question, Adi, where does this relentlessness,
[33:47.000 -> 33:51.000] this drive, this fire in you come from?
[33:51.000 -> 33:56.000] Well, I think it came from probably upbringing.
[33:56.000 -> 33:58.000] We were a working-class family.
[33:58.000 -> 34:04.000] I was half Japanese, half Australian in a fairly tough, white Australia place.
[34:04.000 -> 34:07.880] So to be any good, you had to get ahead,
[34:07.880 -> 34:13.600] you know, and you had to be good at sport. So I wanted to be good at sport. And we were,
[34:13.600 -> 34:21.120] I think my mother went to high school, but she was in internment camps. Father, I remember
[34:21.120 -> 34:25.400] he always told me, he said, I was working at Goldmine Sun when I was 15.
[34:25.400 -> 34:30.420] And he did his year 12, I remember him doing it when he was 50, because he still wanted
[34:30.420 -> 34:31.420] to get it.
[34:31.420 -> 34:37.740] So we had that nice commonality about who we were, but the opportunities of what we
[34:37.740 -> 34:38.740] could do.
[34:38.740 -> 34:44.380] Yeah, my eldest sister's a director of a big architecture company, and she's brilliant.
[34:44.380 -> 34:46.120] She's got a couple of doctorates, I think, lectures of a big architecture company, and she's brilliant. She's got a couple of
[34:46.120 -> 34:52.040] doctorates I think, lectures at a university, so she's driven in her own way. My middle
[34:52.040 -> 34:58.960] sister's driven by, she just bobs around from one thing to the other, she's taught nearly
[34:58.960 -> 35:06.560] every subject, she's had her own kimono shop where she's got kimono material from Japan and made it into modern clothes
[35:07.480 -> 35:12.040] And she's a real sort of creative person. No sort of one that didn't get either
[35:12.040 -> 35:15.440] I'm not that bright or not that creative stuff at the work a bit harder
[35:15.440 -> 35:18.980] I think you've done all right, but you've done all right lots of parents listen to this podcast
[35:19.920 -> 35:23.440] In many ways you are a parent to a lot of rugby players at all times
[35:23.440 -> 35:28.240] And it's easy to get to the head of those guys. They want to play rugby. They want tactics. They want to win
[35:28.760 -> 35:34.480] What's the trick to getting to their heart that the parents listening to this podcast can can take on board?
[35:34.560 -> 35:37.960] Well, I think yeah, everyone's motivated by something
[35:38.600 -> 35:41.600] And whether it be the desire to be famous
[35:42.360 -> 35:46.480] Desire to be good at something, money.
[35:46.480 -> 35:48.120] You've got to understand the motivation.
[35:48.120 -> 35:53.960] I think for most kids there'll be some sort of central motivation there, and you've got
[35:53.960 -> 35:58.840] to try to then work with them to find how that can be brought out.
[35:58.840 -> 36:05.000] I remember I did this show for a Japanese television.
[36:05.560 -> 36:09.920] We went to a high school and I coached them for a week.
[36:09.920 -> 36:11.920] We had to try to get the team good enough
[36:11.920 -> 36:13.120] to beat a university team,
[36:13.120 -> 36:16.560] which is obviously a higher level, and we beat them.
[36:16.560 -> 36:18.640] And again, one of the most enjoyable kids.
[36:18.640 -> 36:21.720] I remember there was this quite overweight prop
[36:22.800 -> 36:28.800] and he was bloody terrible. You know, didn't want to get involved in the game, stood back.
[36:28.800 -> 36:33.720] And I wanted to get in the same, so I gave him a nickname.
[36:33.720 -> 36:37.720] And then I did little bits of extra work with him all week.
[36:37.720 -> 36:40.040] And he made this one big run in the game.
[36:40.040 -> 36:44.120] And I can remember after the game, the boys were so happy for him.
[36:44.120 -> 36:48.000] And I think that's the same in parenting, you've got to just try to find
[36:48.000 -> 36:53.000] how you can get a strong connection on something they like doing.
[36:53.000 -> 36:56.000] And kids these days, the hard thing I would say,
[36:56.000 -> 36:59.000] is kids these days have so many things going on in their life
[36:59.000 -> 37:03.000] and maybe you've got to try to get them to focus on a few less things.
[37:03.000 -> 37:05.600] But like a head coach, remember that nothing's neutral, everything you say or do. gallwch chi ddweud, efallai, y byddwch chi'n gweithio i gael nhw'n cyfathrebu ar y rhai pethau o'r iaith. Ond fel ymgyrchwr, cofio y bydd dim beth sy'n neidiol.
[37:05.600 -> 37:07.040] Yr hyn y byddwch chi'n dweud neu'n gwneud.
[37:07.920 -> 37:09.840] Ond gofynnaf i chi,
[37:09.840 -> 37:12.080] felly eich gwirionedd o ddod i mewn i hynny,
[37:12.400 -> 37:15.280] o fod yn ddiddorol yn gymuned o waith
[37:15.520 -> 37:17.680] ac yna fod yn fath eich hun
[37:17.680 -> 37:21.040] a gweithio mewn y meysydd o'r ddynol
[37:21.040 -> 37:22.960] o Gymru,
[37:23.520 -> 37:28.060] sut y gafwch chi i'r plant the environment of England Rugby now. How do you sort of get kids to tap into those
[37:28.060 -> 37:33.260] fundamentals because they're almost entitled or privileged or some people have described
[37:33.260 -> 37:39.100] them as being soft through conditioning of society. How do you cut through that to tap
[37:39.100 -> 37:40.100] into that desire?
[37:40.100 -> 37:48.480] Well I think again for each player there's a certain way in, so to speak.
[37:48.480 -> 37:54.720] And I always remember a great coach of mine said, unless you're able to generate an
[37:54.720 -> 37:59.440] emotional connection with a player, you won't get a result.
[37:59.440 -> 38:01.880] And they've got to remember conversations you have.
[38:01.880 -> 38:06.600] Like, I bet you can remember the teacher that you either liked a lot or disliked
[38:06.600 -> 38:10.560] because he said something to you that either made you feel
[38:10.560 -> 38:13.280] absolutely fantastic or made you think
[38:13.280 -> 38:14.760] I've got to change something.
[38:14.760 -> 38:16.560] And that's what you're always searching for,
[38:16.560 -> 38:19.520] that one way to get that connection with the player,
[38:19.520 -> 38:22.240] to make them want to do something that's
[38:22.240 -> 38:24.680] maybe uncomfortable for them that's going to make them
[38:24.680 -> 38:31.500] a little bit better. And it's a bit like you've got to be afraid to be wrong, that's
[38:31.500 -> 38:37.340] the hard thing. You can sometimes lose a player because you've gone the wrong way with them.
[38:37.340 -> 38:41.860] We've got one player we call the bowling ball because that's what we want him to be and
[38:41.860 -> 38:49.000] he loves it. He resonates with that and that's become a way that he's changed the way he plays.
[38:49.000 -> 38:56.000] So is there one example of a relationship that has given you the most satisfaction as a coach,
[38:56.000 -> 39:01.000] where you built that relationship and seen them blossom as a consequence?
[39:01.000 -> 39:08.280] Well, I coached in South Africa, I coached a halfback called Farid Apari, brilliant player.
[39:08.280 -> 39:15.440] And he was the first South African to play Japanese club rugby. And he came over, I had
[39:15.440 -> 39:19.720] like a really good professional relationship with him. He'd play the game two rucks ahead
[39:19.720 -> 39:25.960] of everyone else. And then he came to came to Suntory and played for Suntory and he just blossomed
[39:25.960 -> 39:33.680] as a person, became a real leader. Japanese boys loved him. It really changed the way
[39:33.680 -> 39:41.520] he was and you could see the growth. And then he won the World Cup in 2007, played in 2011,
[39:41.520 -> 39:45.000] hadn't played any international rugby until the 2015 World Cup,
[39:45.000 -> 39:49.000] didn't play for nine months, then for the rugby people out there,
[39:49.000 -> 39:52.000] they'll remember the semi-final he played against the All Blacks
[39:52.000 -> 39:55.000] where they nearly beat them, and he was absolutely brilliant.
[39:55.000 -> 40:02.000] I've never seen a guy who was able to start as quite a shy Afrikaans boy
[40:02.000 -> 40:05.000] to blossom into this global star.
[40:05.520 -> 40:06.360] And as a coach,
[40:06.360 -> 40:09.160] you only get one chance to make a first impression.
[40:09.160 -> 40:13.160] What are your tips and tricks for day one in a new job?
[40:13.160 -> 40:15.080] What are the things you always make sure you do?
[40:15.080 -> 40:16.780] Always try to light their eyes up.
[40:17.720 -> 40:19.880] You know, that's the main thing.
[40:19.880 -> 40:22.080] Show them where they're gonna go.
[40:22.080 -> 40:24.640] And then the coach's job is to create the pathway
[40:24.640 -> 40:32.160] to take them there. But always work from the end backwards. So this is where we're going, boys. This is
[40:32.160 -> 40:38.160] what we're going to have to do to get there. Now make a choice. And set that in stone almost
[40:38.160 -> 40:42.840] right from the first day. Because you want people to be part of something special. You
[40:42.840 -> 40:46.280] want them to feel like this is going to be something that no one else is going to
[40:46.280 -> 40:50.480] do and that they've got a part to play in this and then you'll get a bit more out of
[40:50.480 -> 40:51.480] them.
[40:51.480 -> 40:52.480] How do you choose the thing though?
[40:52.480 -> 40:56.120] Well I think generally in rugby it's pretty obvious.
[40:56.120 -> 41:01.480] Like you know for England we wanted to win the World Cup but now it's more than that.
[41:01.480 -> 41:06.160] We want to be a great team and I know we get criticized for saying that because it's putting ourselves
[41:06.160 -> 41:06.960] But why not?
[41:06.960 -> 41:09.760] Why wouldn't you want to be who wants to be an average team?
[41:09.800 -> 41:13.400] There's a pattern here with after you you wanted to win the World Cup in
[41:13.800 -> 41:19.660] 2003 and then you've in the final you lost and then you went on that second cycle where
[41:19.880 -> 41:27.000] Things started to unravel for you. What are you doing differently with this second cycle of the England team you've got now
[41:27.000 -> 41:29.000] than what you would have done with Australia?
[41:29.000 -> 41:33.000] A real focus on being great, rather than winning.
[41:33.000 -> 41:40.000] So it's almost, yeah, they say the difference between process and the outcome driven.
[41:40.000 -> 41:43.000] I never think it's as clear as that.
[41:43.000 -> 41:48.080] But what we want to focus on is the players more themselves.
[41:48.080 -> 41:51.560] It is important what the team does, but I want the players to be the best version of
[41:51.560 -> 41:54.720] themselves and we're giving them a lot more ownership.
[41:54.720 -> 41:59.800] Like on a Monday, they now come in and they work out what they're doing before lunch.
[41:59.800 -> 42:03.440] So they've got to organize their coaches to work out their schedule.
[42:03.440 -> 42:06.320] And it's just those little changes we're trying to bring in.
[42:06.320 -> 42:08.760] We don't have well-being anymore.
[42:08.760 -> 42:14.080] So when they come down in the morning, if they're not right, find the person you need.
[42:14.080 -> 42:19.520] And what's the skill that you're trying to develop in them by doing that?
[42:19.520 -> 42:22.000] Get the team to be much more self-regulated.
[42:22.000 -> 42:28.000] I think the greatest teams of any organization is the self-regulation
[42:28.000 -> 42:32.500] is the important thing where the members of the team drive the team. It's not the leaders
[42:32.500 -> 42:37.620] who drive the team. The leaders are just pushing and prodding and guiding, but the team is
[42:37.620 -> 42:39.120] driving the team.
[42:39.120 -> 42:43.680] Brilliant. Before we move on to our quickfire questions at the end, Eddie, your relationship
[42:43.680 -> 42:48.320] with failure, how do you develop a relationship with failure so it doesn't derail you?
[42:48.880 -> 42:52.720] I think there's a whole cycle of success and failure that you just keep going.
[42:53.280 -> 42:57.200] So I know now we're right at the end of what we're doing now.
[42:58.160 -> 43:07.760] We've just won nine games in a row, been to the World Cup final, won basically two Six Nations. But we've got to break it and go again.
[43:07.760 -> 43:11.160] And that takes some pain, because it
[43:11.160 -> 43:13.400] means that we might have to change some personnel,
[43:13.400 -> 43:15.120] might have to change some players.
[43:15.120 -> 43:18.040] It means we might have to change the way we play a little bit.
[43:18.040 -> 43:20.600] And you don't know whether that's going to be successful.
[43:20.600 -> 43:22.800] And we do know what we're doing now is successful.
[43:22.800 -> 43:27.840] But you've got to acknowledge that failure is always there,
[43:28.680 -> 43:32.640] that it's the biggest part of the cycle.
[43:32.640 -> 43:34.800] You know, if you have a cycle of leadership,
[43:34.800 -> 43:37.320] it starts with failure, ends with failure,
[43:37.320 -> 43:40.960] but then you've got to minimize that cycle
[43:40.960 -> 43:46.000] when you're in the failure to have sustainable practice within your
[43:46.000 -> 43:51.840] organization right quick fire questions the three non-negotiable behaviors that
[43:51.840 -> 43:59.720] you and the people around you have to buy into enthusiastic punctual alert
[43:59.720 -> 44:04.240] what advice would you give a teenage Eddie just start to know my old man
[44:04.240 -> 44:05.160] used to say to me,
[44:05.160 -> 44:08.600] you couldy, which means slowly in Japanese, take your time.
[44:08.600 -> 44:10.720] Not an easy thing to do sometimes.
[44:10.720 -> 44:13.680] How did you react to your greatest failure?
[44:13.680 -> 44:15.160] Ah, badly.
[44:15.160 -> 44:18.360] Ah, again, World Cup 2003,
[44:18.360 -> 44:20.240] getting sacked as Australian coach.
[44:20.240 -> 44:23.960] And what I've learned is take your time, reflect,
[44:23.960 -> 44:27.000] don't jump to anything, acknowledge what you've
[44:27.000 -> 44:30.640] done poorly and then try to fix it.
[44:30.640 -> 44:32.120] How important is legacy?
[44:32.120 -> 44:35.200] I don't control that.
[44:35.200 -> 44:39.100] But what I want to do is every time I go, I want to leave them in a better state.
[44:39.100 -> 44:43.920] So one of the most positive things for me, I left the Brumbies, they ended up winning
[44:43.920 -> 44:45.880] again in 2004, left
[44:45.880 -> 44:52.200] Japan in 2015, they were better in 2019 and this English side when I leave them, I hope
[44:52.200 -> 44:56.400] they're even more successful when I leave and then I've done a good job. And I think
[44:56.400 -> 45:00.720] that's with business too, you see the good business don't you? The great CEOs leave a
[45:00.720 -> 45:08.600] business in a great state and they keep getting better and they say, well, we don't miss him, but he's actually put that in place.
[45:08.600 -> 45:13.280] And finally, your one golden rule to living a high performance life.
[45:13.280 -> 45:17.360] Be focused, be focused on what's important.
[45:17.360 -> 45:19.960] Work out what's going to make you win and focus on that.
[45:19.960 -> 45:20.960] Brilliant.
[45:20.960 -> 45:24.920] Look, Eddie, to sit and have that 45 minutes with you is just an absolute pleasure for
[45:24.920 -> 45:25.640] us. And I think I'm
[45:26.280 -> 45:27.240] Correct me if I'm wrong
[45:27.240 -> 45:32.960] But I think the Eddie that we're talking to now is quite a different Eddie to the one that we perhaps would have had a conversation
[45:32.960 -> 45:33.680] with
[45:33.680 -> 45:35.680] 10 or 15 years ago
[45:35.680 -> 45:37.680] Yeah, possibly
[45:38.120 -> 45:44.000] That's very pleasure guys. I really enjoy chatting in doing a great job with the podcast. So thanks for the invitation
[45:44.000 -> 45:45.400] Thanks, and thanks for listening.
[45:45.400 -> 45:45.700] By the way.
[45:45.700 -> 45:48.700] I know you've listened to a few the they're quite important conversations for people to
[45:48.700 -> 45:48.900] hear.
[45:48.900 -> 45:49.900] I think don't you?
[45:50.000 -> 45:51.200] Yeah, no, they're great.
[45:51.800 -> 45:53.000] As I said to you off here.
[45:53.600 -> 45:55.600] I love that Matthew McConaughey one.
[45:55.600 -> 45:58.500] I thought that was quite unique and I bought the book.
[45:58.500 -> 46:03.900] I wasn't so enamored with the book, but it was a great great podcast guys.
[46:04.100 -> 46:04.500] Good man.
[46:06.400 -> 46:07.440] Damien. the book but there was a great great podcast guys good man
[46:14.240 -> 46:18.360] Damien Jake if he's mellowed and his working day starts at 5 a.m. and he's pretty much done in terms of his thinking by 8 a.m. I would be fascinated
[46:18.360 -> 46:22.840] to have met him 20 years ago pre stroke pre losing his job with the Australians
[46:22.840 -> 46:25.640] when he was anything but mellow in his own head yeah definitely I've been yn ystod ei strog, yn ystod ei phosib o ddod â'r Australiwniaid, pan oedd yn unig beth sy'n llwyr i'w gwbl.
[46:25.640 -> 46:29.640] Iawn, yn siŵr. Rwyf wedi cael yr oed i fod o ran Eddie
[46:29.640 -> 46:32.800] ar rai o gyfansoddiadau, ac rwy'n gwybod bod yn ei ddifrifo
[46:32.800 -> 46:35.280] o fod yn eithaf pheiriantol gyda'i ethyg gwaith
[46:35.280 -> 46:39.040] a'r cyhoeddiadau cyhoeddiadol y mae'n ei sefydlu ar gyfer pobl eraill.
[46:39.040 -> 46:41.480] Ond rwy'n credu mai dyna'r pwynt pwysig iawn y gwnaeth e wneud
[46:41.480 -> 46:44.640] pan sgwrsodd am y strog a'r effaith
[46:44.640 -> 46:45.360] a oedd hynny wedi ei gael arnod. Ac rwy'n credu, os oes unrhyw un yn clywed hynny, rwy'n credu mae'n bwysig powerful point that he made there when he spoke about the stroke and the impact that that had had
[46:45.360 -> 46:50.880] on him and I think for anyone listening to this I think it's important to realize that you don't
[46:50.880 -> 46:56.240] need to have the equivalent of a car crash whether that's emotional or physical to be able to go back
[46:56.240 -> 47:01.760] and reflect and change your mind and maybe change your approach you know I think we're capable of
[47:01.760 -> 47:05.180] doing it at any time and that's where Eddie's point around
[47:05.840 -> 47:10.940] After that Australian job, he'd had taken six months off to have a serious
[47:11.380 -> 47:14.720] Look at what he was doing what he'd done. Well and what he could do better
[47:14.720 -> 47:21.300] I think just that ability to introspect and reflect is is hugely powerful for all high performers
[47:21.320 -> 47:28.240] And we've spoken to numerous coaches who are currently working on this podcast, you know, let me just pick out three. Frank Lampard,
[47:28.240 -> 47:33.720] Stephen Gerrard, Eddie Jones, all three of them doing amazing jobs in their own
[47:33.720 -> 47:39.000] leagues, in their own respective fields. Every single one of them, absolutely
[47:39.000 -> 47:44.160] relentless. None of them are just playing at it a bit, kind of enjoying it, but not
[47:44.160 -> 47:48.360] really giving it everything. And I think that that is the key to anyone in that position
[47:48.640 -> 47:54.720] Don't like it's such a difficult one on this podcast because part of me wants to sort of say look don't push yourself to the
[47:54.720 -> 47:56.000] Limit because that can be unhealthy
[47:56.000 -> 48:01.840] but I think we have to have an absolute realization right that if you are going to get to the level that some of our
[48:01.840 -> 48:03.840] guests are getting to
[48:03.880 -> 48:09.900] Relentlessness is absolutely a non i'r lefel y mae rhai o'n gwestiynau yn mynd i'w gael, mae'r amlwgwch yn unigogol, ac yw'r hyn yr oedd Eddie yn ei ddweud.
[48:09.900 -> 48:16.280] Yn unigol, mae'r tri gyfraith, ymdrech, y gryn, yn y chlefydd o'i ffilosofi
[48:16.280 -> 48:21.320] ac mae wedi bod yn y chlefydd o'r hyn y mae pob gynllun gweithredol wedi ei wneud i ni.
[48:21.320 -> 48:25.040] Ac rwy'n credu mai dyma rhywbeth rydyn ni wedi cael cwestiynau arno,
[48:25.040 -> 48:29.840] ac yma y gafodd ymuno â hynny yma, ac y cyfrifiad yw, wel,
[48:29.840 -> 48:33.200] mae angen i chi roi cofio yr hyn rydych chi'n ei wneud, ac, o ddefiniad, mae'n golygu bod
[48:33.200 -> 48:37.280] pethau eraill sy'n rhaid i chi fynd o'r bwrdd, nad ydych chi'n byw yn unig yn gallu gwneud
[48:37.280 -> 48:46.420] y gweithredaeth ychydig o'ch plant, dydych chi ddim yn unig yn gwneud pob chwaraeon ysgol, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y gweithredaeth, y Always make every school play that you know the sacrifices that have to be made when you're embracing the grind talking of kids
[48:46.420 -> 48:49.520] This is what I relate it to. Okay, because I think that it's really important
[48:49.520 -> 48:52.580] We we are totally honest with people that you need to be relentless
[48:52.940 -> 48:56.160] but I think it's also key to say that only be relentless and
[48:56.640 -> 49:02.720] Single-minded if it gives you fulfillment if it gives you happiness if it's a thing for you and I relate it to being a parent
[49:02.720 -> 49:07.240] Right, I we all as parents and I will admit and as well my wife Harriet and everyone else
[49:07.560 -> 49:11.460] You get to the end of the day and you think bloody hell man. I have had enough of this
[49:11.460 -> 49:15.660] The kids have wound me up. It's been really hard. We tried to go out for the day. Everything went wrong
[49:15.800 -> 49:19.180] That was just an sh IT day, right?
[49:19.440 -> 49:25.960] What happens the next morning at 630 when you hear your beautiful child's little pattering feet running down the corridor saying I want to go downstairs
[49:26.480 -> 49:29.520] What do you do you get up you go again?
[49:29.720 -> 49:35.560] Because that that pot of passion that love for your children. It's all been restocked
[49:35.560 -> 49:37.640] It's all been restored and every day you wake up
[49:37.640 -> 49:43.680] You're ready to go again as a parent and I think that for someone like Eddie or Frank or Steven or any of the other
[49:45.120 -> 49:45.180] And I think that for someone like Eddie or Frank or Steven or any of the other high performers that we've spoken to
[49:50.300 -> 49:53.860] The life they live is like being a parent of this of this job of this career And so every day they're stocked up again. They're full
[49:53.860 -> 50:00.720] I think that's a really powerful point and I know you've made it in different contexts as well Jacob when you speak about
[50:01.680 -> 50:06.160] Consistency and relentless, but there's a key word in the middle of that, which is being happy.
[50:06.160 -> 50:08.200] And it's about putting joy or happiness
[50:08.200 -> 50:09.360] at the heart of what you do.
[50:09.360 -> 50:11.500] So it doesn't feel like a job
[50:11.500 -> 50:13.000] because you're loving doing it
[50:13.000 -> 50:14.960] and therefore it feels like a pleasure.
[50:14.960 -> 50:16.640] You're not thinking about the sacrifices,
[50:16.640 -> 50:18.740] you're thinking about all the benefits
[50:18.740 -> 50:20.440] and all the pleasure that you get from it.
[50:20.440 -> 50:22.360] And I think this is something
[50:22.360 -> 50:24.280] that I wouldn't want anyone to listen to this
[50:24.280 -> 50:26.680] and misunderstand that these people are relentless
[50:26.680 -> 50:29.960] But they're not doing it because they enjoy the struggle
[50:29.960 -> 50:34.120] They're doing it because they enjoy what they get out of it and that's also a non-negotiable
[50:34.520 -> 50:40.500] And actually sometimes for them part of the joy and the thrill is the struggle that let's just be honest and for other people
[50:41.120 -> 50:44.360] That they can't cope with that and that's absolutely fine. Everyone's different
[50:44.200 -> 50:48.340] people they can't cope with that and that's absolutely fine everyone's different. Yeah again to repeat a phrase that we've used on this in previous
[50:48.340 -> 50:53.040] episodes is that we're not suggesting there is a way we're suggesting that
[50:53.040 -> 50:57.800] there are a number of ways and it's for everybody to to make their own decision
[50:57.800 -> 51:02.520] to use their own judgment as to what's acceptable for them. I know a lot of
[51:02.520 -> 51:08.980] people often ask us Damien about books and things There's a couple of books which really ring true with Eddie's experiences
[51:09.000 -> 51:11.080] I've read one of them the 5 a.m
[51:11.080 -> 51:13.040] Club and I'm keen to read the power hour
[51:13.040 -> 51:16.900] Which is another one then the thinking behind that if you've listened to the pod and you're thinking man
[51:16.900 -> 51:22.780] I love Eddie's relentlessness. I love his sense of achievement. How do I get there both of those books talk about?
[51:23.400 -> 51:25.960] Making the decision that at the beginning of your day,
[51:25.960 -> 51:28.160] you're gonna get up while everyone else is asleep,
[51:28.160 -> 51:29.760] while the world is still in slumber
[51:29.760 -> 51:31.480] and you are going to achieve.
[51:31.480 -> 51:33.200] And like Eddie said, by eight o'clock,
[51:33.200 -> 51:36.080] his thinking, his processes, his day's work
[51:36.080 -> 51:37.120] is pretty much done.
[51:37.120 -> 51:39.000] It's kind of like 8 a.m. onwards,
[51:39.000 -> 51:40.280] anything you achieve is a win.
[51:40.280 -> 51:41.360] Yeah, definitely.
[51:41.360 -> 51:42.520] Well, there's the old saying, isn't there,
[51:42.520 -> 51:44.800] there's no traffic jams on the extra mile.
[51:44.800 -> 51:51.740] And I think when you go that extra mile and you prepare to invest yourself in doing something to a high standard
[51:51.920 -> 51:58.200] You won't find many people that are getting in your way at that time. Love it. Love it, right Damien
[51:58.200 -> 52:00.760] Um, I was always a pleasure to sit and speak to Eddie
[52:01.440 -> 52:07.200] With you. I think he's an absolutely fascinating character and I can see how he gets results.
[52:07.200 -> 52:08.120] Definitely, yeah.
[52:08.120 -> 52:10.880] And I think there was a key bit of recognising
[52:10.880 -> 52:14.120] that he's learned that not everybody does have to share
[52:14.120 -> 52:16.560] that same relentlessness in the same way
[52:16.560 -> 52:18.920] for him to be able to engage and get the best out of them.
[52:18.920 -> 52:20.440] So no, it's been an absolute treat.
[52:20.440 -> 52:21.960] So thanks for having me along again, Jake.
[52:21.960 -> 52:22.800] Thanks, mate.
[52:22.800 -> 52:26.640] Well, Damien, what an amazing reaction we've had to Josh Warrington. So thanks for having me along again, Jake. Thanks, mate.
[52:28.420 -> 52:29.500] Well, Damien, what an amazing reaction we've had to Josh Warrington.
[52:29.500 -> 52:30.340] Do you know what?
[52:30.340 -> 52:31.160] I think that with him,
[52:31.160 -> 52:32.860] it wasn't just the things that he said,
[52:32.860 -> 52:34.500] it was the way that he said them
[52:34.500 -> 52:37.460] that has had so many people talking about,
[52:37.460 -> 52:40.340] sharing and downloading his episode from last week.
[52:40.340 -> 52:41.900] Just pure passion, wasn't it, Jake?
[52:41.900 -> 52:43.420] And what I love is the fact that
[52:43.420 -> 52:45.080] people have got over
[52:51.560 -> 52:54.040] Accents, you know all got over somebody using a bit of choice language and rather than get hung up on the irrelevant stuff They've listened to a lad who's on a journey
[52:54.800 -> 53:00.960] With self-belief he's come from humble beginnings and yet he's backed himself all the way and it just it
[53:01.200 -> 53:06.320] It's been incredibly satisfying that people have have invested the time to listen to him.
[53:06.320 -> 53:10.320] There's a really lovely comment we got from Jasper who got in touch. And let me just remind you,
[53:10.320 -> 53:14.000] if you can rate and review this podcast, wherever you get your podcasts from,
[53:14.000 -> 53:17.840] it genuinely makes a huge difference to us being able to continue to give you this
[53:18.400 -> 53:24.080] content for free. Jasper says, Hi, I would like to just say, I love your podcast. They're so helpful.
[53:24.080 -> 53:27.960] One of the best podcasts I've ever listened to and I get onto them every single morning
[53:27.960 -> 53:32.100] they helped me so much and another person saying I wanted to show my
[53:32.100 -> 53:36.040] appreciation for your pod recently I was forced into a fairly significant career
[53:36.040 -> 53:40.200] change and it gave me time for reflection during that process I found
[53:40.200 -> 53:43.720] your pod courtesy of a friend I'm sure I've never listened to anything that
[53:43.720 -> 53:45.640] carries so much meaning and resonance.
[53:45.640 -> 53:47.800] The lessons I pick up from people you talk to,
[53:47.800 -> 53:50.000] I inject directly into my mindset,
[53:50.000 -> 53:52.420] and it gives me the courage to think and act in a way
[53:52.420 -> 53:54.280] that not only creates better outcomes,
[53:54.280 -> 53:56.200] but gives me more satisfaction.
[53:56.200 -> 53:58.160] I'm a better professional friend and husband
[53:58.160 -> 54:00.900] for the perspective I've picked up from you and your guests.
[54:00.900 -> 54:03.540] Please keep it up and understand you're making real,
[54:03.540 -> 54:08.000] tangible changes in the lives of your listeners. I mean, that's what this is about for us, Damien. gwestiwn, dweud wrthod y cyfan a deall eich bod yn gwneud newidau mewn gwirionedd mewn bywydau i'ch clywodd. Dwi'n golygu dyma beth mae hyn yn ymwneud â ni,
[54:08.000 -> 54:11.040] Damien. Rydyn ni wedi dweud ymau miliwn o weithiau, mae'n ymwneud â'r cyfnod, nid y cyfrifiad,
[54:11.040 -> 54:14.240] ac mae hynny'n gweithgaredd ar gyfer y cyfnod o'r arlunion hon.
[54:14.240 -> 54:17.920] Ie, rwy'n credu ei bod yn anhygoel iawn bod pobl
[54:17.920 -> 54:20.880] yn dod â'r meddwl agored, yn barod i
[54:20.880 -> 54:24.640] clywed a bod yn cael effaith gan y wythnosau a'r fforddiau.
[54:24.640 -> 54:27.760] Dwi'n credu eich bod wedi I think you've said a number of times, Jake,
[54:27.760 -> 54:31.880] that if you were to add up the hundreds of years worth of learnings that are
[54:31.880 -> 54:36.000] being passed on in an hour from all of our guests in all of the series,
[54:36.400 -> 54:39.880] I think you'd have to be a fool not to want to think there's something in there
[54:39.880 -> 54:44.040] for you that you can take away and apply as a, as a, as a parent,
[54:44.080 -> 54:46.640] a professional, uh, and as a partner.
[54:46.640 -> 54:51.760] Thanks also to Martin who says honestly these podcasts are like a new boost of discovery
[54:51.760 -> 54:56.400] and positivity every single day. He says it makes me think positively about the future. I'm now
[54:56.400 -> 55:01.200] counting down the days to be home and have my two teenage sons back in the UK. I'm hooked onto these
[55:01.200 -> 55:08.520] podcasts. Brilliant stuff. Can't wait to hear the next episode well talking of the next episode how about a sneaky little listen
[55:08.520 -> 55:14.940] to what's coming up next from the high performance podcast I don't want to be a
[55:14.940 -> 55:20.640] flash in the pan I want I want people to talk about me and the pubs in Belfast
[55:20.640 -> 55:25.720] and and Northern Ireland and Ireland in the UK in 20, 30 years time,
[55:25.720 -> 55:28.840] and remember me for, well, to be a,
[55:28.840 -> 55:32.360] being a good man and also a great fighter.
[55:32.360 -> 55:34.040] I'm excited about that as well, Damian.
[55:34.040 -> 55:35.960] That's what I love about this series
[55:35.960 -> 55:38.320] is that we're dropping episodes on Mondays and Wednesdays.
[55:38.320 -> 55:40.080] And so people who've just listened to this
[55:40.080 -> 55:42.160] have only got a couple of days to wait
[55:42.160 -> 55:44.160] until they hear from Karl Frampton.
[55:44.160 -> 55:47.000] And again, he is a man with single-minded determination to achieve one thing and one thing only, Mae'r cyfan hwn yn ymwneud â'i gynllunio, rwy'n credu ei fod wedi siarad amdano, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:47.000 -> 55:49.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:49.000 -> 55:51.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:51.000 -> 55:53.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:53.000 -> 55:55.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:55.000 -> 55:57.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:57.000 -> 55:59.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[55:59.000 -> 56:01.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[56:01.000 -> 56:03.000] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio,
[56:03.000 -> 56:05.080] mae'n ymwneud â'i gynllunio, mae'n ymwneud ag yw'r gwaith mae'n ymwneud ag yw'r gwaith mae'n ym ei roi yn ymgyrchu'n ddifrifol nad oes unrhyw ffyrdd o fwyrwyr Iwerddon
[56:05.080 -> 56:07.160] wedi cyflawni tri o gyfrifau byrwyddol yn y diwedd,
[56:07.160 -> 56:10.480] felly mae'n teimlo bod hynny'n sicrhau'n statws ddiddorol,
[56:10.480 -> 56:12.640] er mwyn i ni ddweud bod e'n meddwl
[56:12.640 -> 56:14.240] ei fod wedi'i gael yno,
[56:14.240 -> 56:16.160] dydyn ni ddim angen hyn i'w gynhyrchu.
[56:16.160 -> 56:18.120] Rwy'n credu bod yna dynion fwy o hynny.
[56:18.120 -> 56:20.040] Rydyn ni wedi siarad llawer yn y podcast hon
[56:20.040 -> 56:22.320] am bywydau, y ffordd, nid y dodl.
[56:22.320 -> 56:23.920] Ac rhaid i ni fod yn gwybod
[56:23.920 -> 56:29.040] yn fwy o feddwl am ble rydyn ni'n dod, oherwydd mae'r fford about where we end up because the journey is a lot longer than the arrival. Damien thank you so
[56:29.040 -> 56:33.760] much as always it's just fascinating watching this grow and develop and become a bit of a monster
[56:33.760 -> 56:38.640] really isn't it? Yeah and it's incredibly satisfying you know like you say if people
[56:38.640 -> 56:42.960] are listening and taking real benefit away that they can use with their children and for the next
[56:42.960 -> 56:49.440] generation as well that gives us both an awful lot of satisfaction. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Damien. As always,
[56:49.440 -> 56:53.440] we couldn't do this without you. Thank you to Will. Thank you to Hannah. Thanks to Finn and
[56:53.440 -> 56:58.000] Sophie at Rethink Audio for their hard work on this episode. A big shout out, as always,
[56:58.000 -> 57:02.400] to Lotus Cars. You know that we couldn't do it without them. They've been there since the very
[57:02.400 -> 57:05.760] beginning. Most of all, though, thanks to all of you at home.
[57:05.760 -> 57:08.120] Look, we just are lucky enough to have these conversations,
[57:08.120 -> 57:09.080] Damien and myself.
[57:09.080 -> 57:11.240] What really is making this podcast
[57:11.240 -> 57:13.000] have the kind of impact we dreamed of
[57:13.000 -> 57:15.520] is you sharing it, talking about it,
[57:15.520 -> 57:18.480] understanding that every single life can be improved
[57:18.480 -> 57:20.040] from listening to this podcast
[57:20.040 -> 57:22.660] and the plans continue to be big.
[57:22.660 -> 57:24.960] We'll see you very soon for another episode
[57:24.960 -> 57:27.120] of the High Performance Podcast.
[57:27.120 -> 57:32.120] ♪♪♪
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