E4 - Steven Bartlett: The importance of believing you can

This week on the pod we’re joined by Steven Bartlett, the self-made 27-year-old CEO of Social Chain, a leading global media agency, which he started at just 22. Jake and Damian delve deep into Steven’s unique philosophy, hearing about his relentless self-belief and entrepreneurial mindset.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the High Performance podcast, Damien Hughes and Jake Humphrey engage in a captivating conversation with Steven Bartlett, the self-made CEO of Social Chain, a leading global media agency. Steven shares his unique philosophy, emphasizing relentless self-belief and an entrepreneurial mindset.

Growing up, Steven witnessed his parents' tumultuous relationship, which fueled his determination to create a better life for himself. He realized that failure would be accepting the life he didn't want, and every attempt he made was a step towards success.

Steven's entrepreneurial spirit manifested early on when he ran various businesses while still in school. He forged a deal with a vending machine company to provide free machines and profits to his school, demonstrating his business acumen and negotiation skills.

Steven believes that self-belief is crucial for success. He emphasizes the importance of setting clear goals and taking action towards achieving them. He highlights the power of compounding belief by consistently taking small steps and building evidence of one's capabilities.

Steven's journey from being a struggling student to a highly successful entrepreneur is a testament to his unwavering self-belief and relentless pursuit of his goals. He emphasizes that success is not about innate intelligence but about how one applies their intelligence.

Steven's approach to failure is also unique. He views failure as a natural part of the journey towards success, rather than something to be avoided. He believes that failure is an opportunity to learn and grow, and that it's essential to keep trying and pushing boundaries.

Steven's story is an inspiration to anyone seeking to achieve success in their chosen field. His emphasis on self-belief, resilience, and the importance of taking action serves as a valuable lesson for aspiring entrepreneurs and high performers.

# Podcast Episode Summary: High-Performance Living with Steven Bartlett

## Introduction

- Steven Bartlett, a 27-year-old self-made CEO of Social Chain, a leading global media agency, joins Jake Humphrey and Damian Lewis for an in-depth conversation.
- Steven shares his unique philosophy, emphasizing relentless self-belief and an entrepreneurial mindset.

## Key Points:

### 1. Education and Career Advice:

- Steven challenges traditional educational paths, encouraging individuals to pursue their passions and find unique ways to stand out in the job market.
- He emphasizes the importance of practical experience, networking, and building a strong portfolio.

### 2. Company Culture at Social Chain:

- Steven describes the distinctive culture at Social Chain, fostering kindness, happiness, and a sense of trust among employees.
- He highlights the "no tolerance" approach to workplace bullying and emphasizes the importance of creating an environment where kindness is rewarded.

### 3. Leadership and Soft Skills:

- Steven believes that soft skills, such as kindness and resilience, lead to hard results and create a high-performance work environment.
- He stresses the importance of leading by example and fostering a culture that values kindness and collaboration.

### 4. Personal Journey and Success:

- Steven reflects on his early life and upbringing, emphasizing the impact of his childhood experiences on his work ethic and determination.
- He discusses the realization that true happiness and success come from intrinsic factors rather than material possessions.

### 5. Relationships and Legacy:

- Steven acknowledges the importance of relationships and warns against sacrificing them for career success.
- He expresses a lack of concern for legacy, believing that the present moment and the impact he makes during his lifetime are more significant.

### 6. Advice for a High-Performance Life:

- Steven emphasizes the power of optimism, kindness, and resilience in achieving a high-performance life.
- He encourages individuals to take small steps towards their goals and focus on building positive thoughts and habits.

### Conclusion:

- The hosts express admiration for Steven's wisdom and maturity, acknowledging his unique perspective and the impact he has made in the business world.

[00:00.000 -> 00:04.120] You're listening to High Performance.
[00:04.120 -> 00:07.880] Thanks for coming back for more, and I'm glad you have because this is what's in store
[00:07.880 -> 00:08.880] for you.
[00:08.880 -> 00:12.880] Watching my parents scream at each other for six hours a day as a kid was miserable.
[00:12.880 -> 00:14.360] I didn't want to be miserable.
[00:14.360 -> 00:15.420] So what is failure?
[00:15.420 -> 00:17.480] Failure in fact would be the concession.
[00:17.480 -> 00:19.920] Failure in fact would be leading that life.
[00:19.920 -> 00:24.040] Everything else is an attempt at success.
[00:24.040 -> 00:46.080] Hey I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does. else is an attempt at success. We're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at MintMobile.com.
[00:46.080 -> 01:00.320] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you
[01:00.320 -> 01:02.000] can live a better life.
[01:02.000 -> 01:05.320] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share.
[01:05.320 -> 01:07.240] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores
[01:07.240 -> 01:08.640] and all those overhead costs
[01:08.640 -> 01:11.520] and instead sells their phone plans online
[01:11.520 -> 01:13.720] and passes those savings to you.
[01:13.720 -> 01:14.900] And for a limited time,
[01:14.900 -> 01:16.520] they're passing on even more savings
[01:16.520 -> 01:19.800] with a new customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans
[01:19.800 -> 01:23.500] to $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan.
[01:23.500 -> 01:28.480] That's unlimited talk, text, and data for $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan. That's unlimited talk, text, and data for $15 a month.
[01:30.000 -> 01:33.080] And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless
[01:33.080 -> 01:35.500] service in comparison to providers that we've worked
[01:35.500 -> 01:37.680] with before is incredible.
[01:37.680 -> 01:41.100] Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless
[01:41.100 -> 01:42.960] plans for 15 bucks a month.
[01:42.960 -> 01:45.600] So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans,
[01:45.600 -> 01:49.280] those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those unexpected overages,
[01:49.280 -> 01:51.760] because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text
[01:51.760 -> 01:56.320] and high-speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.
[01:56.320 -> 01:59.040] Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan.
[01:59.040 -> 02:02.400] Bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[02:02.400 -> 02:07.840] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless service
[02:07.840 -> 02:10.120] for just 15 bucks a month.
[02:10.120 -> 02:12.160] To get this new customer offer and your new
[02:12.160 -> 02:14.160] three month unlimited wireless plan
[02:14.160 -> 02:18.840] for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash HPP.
[02:18.840 -> 02:22.300] That's mintmobile.com slash HPP.
[02:22.300 -> 02:24.960] Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month
[02:24.960 -> 02:27.820] at mintmobile.com slash HPP cut your wireless bill to 15
[02:24.060 -> 02:29.820] bucks a month at mint mobile dot-com slash HPP
[02:27.820 -> 02:33.860] additional taxes fees and restrictions
[02:29.820 -> 02:33.860] apply see mint mobile for details
[02:37.300 -> 02:41.420] hi there I'm Jay Comfrey you're
[02:39.500 -> 02:43.020] listening to high-performance the podcast
[02:41.420 -> 02:45.580] that delves into the minds of some of
[02:43.020 -> 02:46.080] the most
[02:43.120 -> 02:47.680] successful athletes, visionaries,
[02:46.080 -> 02:49.840] entrepreneurs and artists on the planet
[02:47.680 -> 02:51.440] and aims to unlock the very secrets to
[02:49.840 -> 02:53.200] their success. With me as always, author
[02:51.440 -> 02:54.560] of Liquid Thinker, lecturer and
[02:53.200 -> 02:56.400] professor within the field of high
[02:54.560 -> 02:58.800] performing teams and cultures is Damien
[02:56.400 -> 03:00.640] Hughes and we're both intrigued to speak to
[02:58.800 -> 03:04.160] our guest today, right? I am very much,
[03:00.640 -> 03:06.720] yeah, definitely. I think when we were
[03:04.160 -> 03:29.600] looking at this particular guest, I was reminded of the work of a guy called Mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n dweud wrthym, mae'n d he suggests is the question we should be asking is not how clever are you but how are you clever because we're all we all have intelligence but we have it in different fields and I think
[03:29.600 -> 03:34.600] our guest today is somebody that's demonstrated intelligence in numerous fields.
[03:34.600 -> 03:38.840] I'm excited already to get going that'll fill the first hour of the podcast let's do it
[03:38.840 -> 03:47.800] then I am also really pleased and deeply honored that this guest has joined us on the podcast because he is my favorite podcast. He is disruptive, he's
[03:47.800 -> 03:52.520] self-made, he's challenging, he's hugely successful, he always seems to have one
[03:52.520 -> 03:56.200] eye on the future. I'm massively jealous of him and the work he does on social
[03:56.200 -> 04:01.360] media and I just think it's brilliant. So welcome to High Performance, the CEO and
[04:01.360 -> 04:05.040] the founder of Social Chain, Stephen Bartlett. How are you? I'm so flattered
[04:12.160 -> 04:16.520] Honor to be on this podcast, it's an absolute honor and you know, you're you're two both very
[04:17.440 -> 04:19.560] Successful people that I've that I know very well
[04:19.560 -> 04:24.360] I've probably creeped on both of your stories more than I think you realize so yeah super honored to be here
[04:24.360 -> 04:29.940] Mine's just full of a badly behaved Labrador. So there's not much missing. I reckon we should
[04:29.940 -> 04:33.420] start with your question. It feels like the perfect place to start, Damien.
[04:33.420 -> 04:38.340] Yeah, that question does often intrigue me, Stephen, that idea of how are you clever?
[04:38.340 -> 04:43.180] So Howard Gardner's argument is that he talks about multiple intelligences and some kids
[04:43.180 -> 04:49.540] are physically gifted, some are verbally gifted, some are socially gifted, physically gifted. You're somebody that checked
[04:49.540 -> 04:54.900] out of education at 18 and then have gone on to be phenomenally successful without it.
[04:54.900 -> 04:56.760] So tell us more about that.
[04:56.760 -> 05:02.520] Yeah, I really love that question. How are you clever? Because it's something that I've
[05:02.520 -> 05:09.340] looked back on my life and tried to answer. And I'm really cautious of giving a egotistical,
[05:09.340 -> 05:11.800] arrogant answer that shines too much light
[05:11.800 -> 05:13.480] on my own skills and ability,
[05:13.480 -> 05:16.480] because I know the role that timing and luck
[05:16.480 -> 05:19.960] have played in the success of the business that I run now.
[05:19.960 -> 05:23.200] And timing and luck weren't there on my first business,
[05:23.200 -> 05:24.180] but they were on this one.
[05:24.180 -> 05:25.740] But looking back on my life,
[05:25.740 -> 05:28.180] so expelled from school when I was 16 for not attending,
[05:28.180 -> 05:30.180] my attendance has hit 30%.
[05:30.180 -> 05:32.240] And the reason why I was expelled
[05:32.240 -> 05:33.220] and wasn't going to school
[05:33.220 -> 05:36.780] was because I was preoccupied running various businesses.
[05:36.780 -> 05:38.800] One of the businesses was for the school.
[05:38.800 -> 05:41.700] So I was responsible for all the school trips
[05:41.700 -> 05:43.700] and events for sixth form.
[05:43.700 -> 05:45.800] When I was 16, I was doing the consent forms, finding
[05:45.800 -> 05:51.160] a city to go to, a theme park, handing out writing, collecting the money for the school
[05:51.160 -> 05:55.020] trips, to the point where the school had given me a whole wall in the school just to advertise
[05:55.020 -> 05:59.560] events or things that I'd come up with. I'd also done all of the deals for the vending
[05:59.560 -> 06:02.920] machines in the schools because I'd overheard a conversation between a girl called Carly
[06:02.920 -> 06:08.920] Stokes and Natalie, who were the heads of the sixth form, where they were trying to find which vending machines
[06:08.920 -> 06:12.920] to buy. And I interjected and said, we don't need to buy vending machines, we have 2,000
[06:12.920 -> 06:16.640] paying customers in students in the school. They should be giving us vending machines
[06:16.640 -> 06:23.040] for free and giving us the profits. So went to the computer room at break time. By lunchtime,
[06:23.040 -> 06:26.420] a guide showed up at our school who'd got one of my emails with a tape measure
[06:26.420 -> 06:27.400] just to measure them.
[06:27.400 -> 06:29.120] Turns out the email had stumbled into the hands
[06:29.120 -> 06:32.080] of the CEO of that business who went to our school
[06:32.080 -> 06:32.960] and was looking to give back.
[06:32.960 -> 06:35.240] And so still to this day, the deal we have is
[06:35.240 -> 06:37.640] we make money from all the vending machines in the school
[06:37.640 -> 06:38.960] and we got them all for free.
[06:38.960 -> 06:41.260] I was doing all of these things, but they still expelled me
[06:41.260 -> 06:42.840] because on one hand I was entrepreneurial.
[06:42.840 -> 06:46.440] On the other hand, I was a misfit because I didn't fit into
[06:47.360 -> 06:52.560] Their idea of what a good student or success looked like how am I clever?
[06:53.160 -> 06:56.160] Hard question not good at math not good at English
[06:56.320 -> 07:01.880] Not really good at anything as it relates to school. My grades were so bad that I forged the the grade certificate
[07:01.880 -> 07:04.320] So that's probably the fact my dad's just found that out
[07:04.520 -> 07:06.760] But the certificate I gave him was forged
[07:06.760 -> 07:08.040] because my brothers are all straight A.
[07:08.040 -> 07:10.360] So I felt bad.
[07:10.360 -> 07:14.920] I think I have always believed that I could.
[07:14.920 -> 07:18.640] And that as a force for learning new things
[07:18.640 -> 07:21.440] and making yourself seem smart is remarkable.
[07:21.440 -> 07:24.040] That as a force for achieving things
[07:24.040 -> 07:28.720] and putting yourselves in situations that you're not qualified to be in is unbelievable. So if there was
[07:28.720 -> 07:32.360] one thing I'd say it's that I always believed I could even when there was no
[07:32.360 -> 07:34.000] reason for me to believe such a thing.
[07:34.000 -> 07:36.280] That really fascinates me because having
[07:36.280 -> 07:41.160] worked in sort of like deprived areas of Manchester which is where I'm from, one
[07:41.160 -> 07:44.760] of the things that often intrigues me is a quote from Mother Teresa where she
[07:44.760 -> 07:48.840] says the real tragedy of deprivation isn't the physical deprivation
[07:48.840 -> 07:52.480] but it's what it does to your hopes and your dreams and your ambitions because if all you're
[07:52.480 -> 07:58.160] surrounded by misery that's all you assume life has got on offer to you. So as a 16 year
[07:58.160 -> 08:03.920] old boy you know interloping on these deals for vending machines and organizing trips
[08:03.920 -> 08:06.800] abroad and things like that, Where did you learn you could?
[08:06.800 -> 08:11.640] So this is a really interesting question as well because typically you think that something good happened and then I
[08:12.560 -> 08:18.000] developed this self-belief, but I actually think it was the opposite. I think by about 10 years old my mum
[08:18.600 -> 08:23.520] got so consumed with running her businesses, which all failed and still failed to this day for 20 years,
[08:23.520 -> 08:25.320] it made our family completely bankrupt.
[08:25.320 -> 08:26.640] What were those businesses in?
[08:26.640 -> 08:31.920] She would try anything. So she would, she tried a hair salon, and the problem my mother
[08:31.920 -> 08:36.680] always had is someone could walk in and tell her that the grass was greener for people
[08:36.680 -> 08:40.200] running corner shops, so my mom would be like, okay, I'm going to open a corner shop. She'd
[08:40.200 -> 08:44.520] go and try and do that as well, the hair salon would fail, and when the business of her corner
[08:44.520 -> 08:45.920] shop started to get tricky, she'd be influenced by the grass that as well, the hair salon would fail, and when the business of her corner shop started to get tricky,
[08:45.920 -> 08:48.720] she'd be influenced by the grass appearing to be greener elsewhere.
[08:48.720 -> 08:52.000] So for 20 years, she'd started 20 different businesses,
[08:52.000 -> 08:55.680] and it ruined our family, it ruined our childhood.
[08:55.680 -> 08:58.240] Our house, as I've said on my podcast,
[08:58.240 -> 09:01.200] the front of it had smashed windows for a decade and a half,
[09:01.200 -> 09:02.640] in a middle-class area.
[09:02.640 -> 09:05.200] And this is probably the real psychological thing,
[09:05.200 -> 09:07.160] which I never really go too much into.
[09:07.160 -> 09:08.680] When you're the only black kid in a school
[09:08.680 -> 09:10.800] of 1500 white kids in the countryside,
[09:10.800 -> 09:13.040] and you're living in a middle class area,
[09:13.040 -> 09:16.920] but your house is, the grass is six foot high at the back
[09:16.920 -> 09:18.320] and there's fridges in the garden,
[09:18.320 -> 09:19.840] and the front of your house is smashed,
[09:19.840 -> 09:23.600] and you're arriving to school in a beat up, horrible car
[09:23.600 -> 09:25.940] that has doors hanging off it,
[09:25.940 -> 09:28.000] the sense of inadequacy that creates,
[09:28.000 -> 09:29.900] and the hunger to be like everybody else
[09:29.900 -> 09:31.580] and to be normal and to have money
[09:31.580 -> 09:33.000] becomes this driving factor.
[09:33.000 -> 09:34.980] That's not necessarily a healthy thing,
[09:34.980 -> 09:36.840] but that coupled with the fact
[09:36.840 -> 09:38.380] that my parents were never there.
[09:38.380 -> 09:40.660] My dad worked in London, which is four hours away.
[09:40.660 -> 09:43.600] My mom was so obsessed with running her businesses
[09:43.600 -> 09:49.040] that she slept on the floor of her shops, meant that there was this void of independence, everything I was going to
[09:49.040 -> 09:53.200] have was a direct result of my own life, and I was so hungry to have it because I felt
[09:53.200 -> 09:57.680] so inadequate, that off I went into the world at 18 years old writing in my diary that I
[09:57.680 -> 10:01.440] was going to be a millionaire before I was 25, a ranger was going to be my first car,
[10:01.440 -> 10:07.440] I was going to have a girlfriend, because when you live in such a house you can't get girlfriends by the way, and that I was going to work on
[10:07.440 -> 10:11.820] my body image. This was all because I, when I reflect, I'm like, there was something missing
[10:11.820 -> 10:13.740] in me, I was inadequate.
[10:13.740 -> 10:17.340] That's a lesson that a lot of people come to later on in life in terms of recognising
[10:17.340 -> 10:23.400] this locus of control, that if it's going to be, it's down to me. And you learnt that
[10:23.400 -> 10:30.920] very young. Because when you wake up in the morning and all the kids around you have Rockport shoes
[10:30.920 -> 10:35.240] on and you look around and no one is gonna give you Rockport shoes, you're not gonna
[10:35.240 -> 10:39.120] get anything for Christmas, you're not gonna get anything for your birthday, so how are
[10:39.120 -> 10:42.560] you gonna get these Rockport shoes that you desperately need to fit in because you're
[10:42.560 -> 10:48.240] already black and have curly hair? So Rockport are more important to me than anybody, but no one's going to give them to me.
[10:48.800 -> 10:53.040] So you start selling shit on the playground. And I started selling cigarettes and I started selling
[10:53.040 -> 10:58.960] sweets and I started doing things that maybe weren't so good to get money. And so my locus
[10:58.960 -> 11:02.800] of control came from the fact that I realized very early that nobody was going to do anything for me.
[11:03.680 -> 11:08.400] You know what I think is really interesting here is, is a word that I didn very early that nobody was going to do anything for me. You know what I think is really interesting here is a word that I didn't even
[11:08.400 -> 11:14.320] realize was important to success until three or four months ago. I went to see a
[11:14.320 -> 11:19.080] CEO of a big multinational corporation that turns over about three billion
[11:19.080 -> 11:23.640] pounds and I foolishly went to ask him to be on the board of Whisper Group,
[11:23.640 -> 11:29.000] right? And he said, listen, I'm the chairman of this huge company, I can't just come be on your
[11:29.000 -> 11:30.520] board, but you know what?
[11:30.520 -> 11:34.800] The fact you've, out of the blue, called my PA, come in and met me, and then asked me
[11:34.800 -> 11:38.260] to be on the board, shows you've got the single most important thing I think that you need
[11:38.260 -> 11:39.920] for success, which is courage.
[11:39.920 -> 11:47.080] And when I hear you talking about being the black kid in school standing out having people walk past your house going
[11:47.240 -> 11:48.160] Who lives there?
[11:48.160 -> 11:49.920] Oh, that's that guy Steven from school
[11:49.920 -> 11:56.160] And then the next day you get up and you walk into the school playground you walk into the classroom you take the responsibility
[11:56.960 -> 11:58.960] To find your place in that environment
[11:59.160 -> 12:03.420] The one thing that the one word that keeps standing out to me of that is courage
[12:03.420 -> 12:07.200] And I don't whether you realized how courageous you were to keep doing that. I've
[12:07.200 -> 12:10.240] probably never thought of it as courageous because it was survival right
[12:10.240 -> 12:13.880] to me it was that as a kid you're just trying to survive. Now look at everything
[12:13.880 -> 12:16.720] you've done since then to the point where you're sitting here now and
[12:16.720 -> 12:21.440] reframe it with courage. Yeah it is it's a good word but you don't realize that
[12:21.440 -> 12:28.020] you're being courageous when you're trying to survive you can't be be consumed with the thought of courage and bravery when you're just trying
[12:28.020 -> 12:31.260] to survive and get through and fit in.
[12:31.260 -> 12:35.520] And it wasn't until I was 18 that I find all of those character traits that I'd built from
[12:35.520 -> 12:40.520] survival allowed me to like release all of those people from my past life that I tried
[12:40.520 -> 12:45.600] so hard to fit in with and then go after being Steve, go after who Steve could be.
[12:45.600 -> 12:46.840] And that foundation made me think
[12:46.840 -> 12:48.320] that I genuinely could do anything.
[12:48.320 -> 12:49.280] And this is a belief I have now.
[12:49.280 -> 12:51.800] I genuinely believe that I can do anything.
[12:51.800 -> 12:53.200] And in fact, my favorite quote is,
[12:53.200 -> 12:55.480] "'Those who think they can and those who think they can't
[12:55.480 -> 12:57.120] "'are both usually right.'"
[12:57.120 -> 12:58.560] Because when I look back at my life, I'm like,
[12:58.560 -> 13:00.400] there's no real reason I should be here
[13:00.400 -> 13:02.460] other than the fact that I knew I would be.
[13:02.460 -> 13:03.300] Simple as that.
[13:03.300 -> 13:04.120] I knew I would be.
[13:04.120 -> 13:07.520] My diary that everyone in this, you know, everyone in my company's seen and everyone that follows
[13:07.520 -> 13:10.980] me has seen says that I was going to be a millionaire before I was 25. Not I would like
[13:10.980 -> 13:15.860] to be or I was going to be. There's no other version of this life that I was going to lead.
[13:15.860 -> 13:18.620] But there's something very powerful there, isn't there, about feeding that into your
[13:18.620 -> 13:22.700] subconscious and because your subconscious doesn't understand the difference between
[13:22.700 -> 13:29.560] future and present reality, which is why we can, our worries can often appear very real to us because we're anticipating
[13:29.560 -> 13:33.840] things and yet you've harnessed that in a positive direction of rather than make it
[13:33.840 -> 13:38.640] a worry, you've fed into your unconscious mind this idea that I am going to do this,
[13:38.640 -> 13:40.680] it's with a sense of certainty.
[13:40.680 -> 13:41.680] There was no doubt in my mind.
[13:41.680 -> 13:43.640] So do you still do that now then, Stephen?
[13:43.640 -> 13:46.420] Do you still write your diary now with these projections?
[13:46.420 -> 13:51.440] I don't I don't write goals down that I want to achieve because they're so
[13:52.600 -> 13:55.640] Internalized they're so clear in my mind. I don't need to write them
[13:55.640 -> 13:58.200] I don't need to wake up in the morning and say them to myself in the mirror
[13:58.200 -> 14:02.420] I know where I want to go in my life and I cannot see
[14:03.080 -> 14:06.000] another ending to my story.
[14:06.000 -> 14:11.280] If this doesn't go how I want it to go with my life, the great things that I want to accomplish,
[14:11.280 -> 14:15.040] then I actually don't know what else to say to that sentence because that's the only thing
[14:15.040 -> 14:17.560] that's going to happen in my life and I've felt that the whole time.
[14:17.560 -> 14:18.920] I don't know where that comes from.
[14:18.920 -> 14:22.360] When I think about belief and self-belief, often people will tell you, oh yeah, just
[14:22.360 -> 14:27.520] believe in yourself, wake up in the morning, say your affirmations. But that's not how belief works. And I've said a few times that,
[14:27.520 -> 14:30.960] you know, if I got your parents and I held a gun to their head and said,
[14:30.960 -> 14:35.460] I'm going to kill them unless you believe that I am Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
[14:35.460 -> 14:38.760] There's nothing you could do to believe that, because that's not how belief works.
[14:38.760 -> 14:43.600] So just telling someone to believe in themself is just wasted words and naivety.
[14:43.600 -> 14:46.140] Belief for me is something that you build based on evidence.
[14:46.240 -> 14:48.340] If I suddenly turned wine into water,
[14:48.740 -> 14:50.380] you might start to believe that I'm Jesus.
[14:50.480 -> 14:52.780] And you have to build that evidence within your own life.
[14:52.880 -> 14:54.980] Because of the void of my childhood
[14:55.080 -> 14:56.320] and my parents not being there,
[14:56.420 -> 14:58.160] every day I was building this evidence
[14:58.260 -> 15:00.020] that, Steve, you wanted Rockport shoes,
[15:00.120 -> 15:01.320] and look, you've got them.
[15:01.720 -> 15:04.720] And the thing that drove that outcome was you.
[15:06.800 -> 15:09.840] So I did all these small things which are compounding in belief. So now when I think Steve if you want to go to the moon
[15:09.840 -> 15:16.360] Could you make that happen 100%? My brain doesn't go. Oh, no, this isn't possible. What if I fail my brain goes like
[15:16.360 -> 15:21.800] What's the path there? Not is there a path there? What is the path there? It's definitely possible
[15:21.800 -> 15:23.900] we just need to figure out how to get there and
[15:24.400 -> 15:25.440] I think
[15:25.440 -> 15:30.280] that's my advice to people that are lacking self-belief is, it's really about building
[15:30.280 -> 15:35.420] evidence in your own life by taking these small steps every day. And Jake talked a little
[15:35.420 -> 15:39.460] bit about this, which is just, you know, just do. And that's how I think you build belief.
[15:39.460 -> 15:43.740] I spoke in front of a couple of people when I was 16, it went really badly, I was shaking
[15:43.740 -> 15:47.920] so much that I couldn't read what it's saying. And you fast forward 10 years of
[15:47.920 -> 15:51.520] me just doing that and I'm on stage, you know, in Brazil with Obama in front of
[15:51.520 -> 15:56.600] 15,000 people. I'm doing arenas in Barcelona with 9,000 people. How did I
[15:56.600 -> 16:00.760] get there? Just doing, you know? This kind of comes back to the fact there's no
[16:00.760 -> 16:06.080] secrets, right? Yeah. There is no chance. So there will be people listening to this now who hear you talk
[16:06.800 -> 16:08.800] beautifully and passionately
[16:08.960 -> 16:13.100] About your self-belief and everything that's great for him, but I haven't got that
[16:13.960 -> 16:15.720] He must he obviously knows something
[16:15.720 -> 16:16.480] I don't
[16:16.480 -> 16:22.120] That's the other thing to really say to people is if you're listening to this and you don't feel and not many people by the way
[16:22.120 -> 16:25.340] We'll be listening to this with your level of self-belief like that is remarkable even I
[16:25.580 -> 16:29.460] Wouldn't say I believe like like you really believe it's fantastic
[16:30.140 -> 16:34.380] But those people that are listening and I asked he's got it and I haven't okay
[16:34.380 -> 16:39.300] What do you say to that you said you said that there'll be people that are listening that are thinking he knows something
[16:39.300 -> 16:44.540] I don't what I would my rebuttal to that would be that it's not that I know something you don't necessarily
[16:45.000 -> 16:45.200] What I would my rebuttal to that would be that it's not that I know something you don't necessarily
[16:51.600 -> 16:52.840] it's that I did something you didn't which was I put myself a little bit outside my comfort zone at some point and
[16:57.000 -> 17:02.640] Then I failed or succeeded and I carried on going in that direction And so it wasn't that I was born with this great wisdom or that even that I could even speak like this
[17:02.640 -> 17:04.760] I couldn't speak like this. This is all
[17:05.760 -> 17:10.240] wisdom or that I could even speak like this. I couldn't speak like this. This is all my 10,000 hours of doing this every day. I wasn't articulate, I couldn't spell, I still can't
[17:10.240 -> 17:14.400] spell to be honest because I've not done my 10,000 hours. I can't do maths, I sound so
[17:14.400 -> 17:17.440] smart now and people are like, oh you must have been born like this. My mum can't read
[17:17.440 -> 17:20.640] or write. She still can't read or write. I remember being 12 years old and teaching her
[17:20.640 -> 17:28.000] how to read the Bible. I don't come from there but I did and so this is one of the big things that I'm always scared of is people looking at me and saying,
[17:28.000 -> 17:32.800] oh, he's smart or he knows stuff. It's, I know this stuff because I did, you know,
[17:32.800 -> 17:37.440] and I started and I learned and I got a little bit better than the next day I got a little bit better.
[17:37.440 -> 17:42.080] But if you take it back that, you know, a decade and a half, I was holding a piece of paper in
[17:42.080 -> 17:49.540] front of 40 people. My hands were sweating so much and the piece of paper was shaking so violently in front of them that I couldn't read the words
[17:49.540 -> 17:52.920] So I remember just making up the words. That's the journey I've gone on just by
[17:53.440 -> 17:55.440] But then that's a really interesting
[17:55.840 -> 18:02.040] relationship with failure as well because I think picking up on Jake's point that there'll be people here that that would do it and
[18:02.280 -> 18:09.560] Would fall over would have that moment of shaking and stop at that moment go I can't speak it's not sure what's your
[18:09.560 -> 18:14.960] relationship with failure like then it's it's a lot easier to accept failure when
[18:14.960 -> 18:19.400] you're so unnegotiable about the outcome that you want to achieve I would rather
[18:19.400 -> 18:22.840] be trying and failing then concede for a life that wasn't true to who I wanted to
[18:22.840 -> 18:27.520] be so failure is it means very very little in that context because when you have no choice
[18:27.520 -> 18:31.280] and when you're so clear that you don't want to live the same life your parents lived,
[18:31.280 -> 18:35.760] watching my parents scream at each other for six hours a day as a kid was miserable.
[18:35.760 -> 18:40.000] I didn't want to be miserable. So what is failure? Failure in fact would be the concession.
[18:40.000 -> 18:44.400] Failure in fact would be leading that life. Everything else is an attempt at success.
[18:44.400 -> 18:49.200] You've really got to understand what failure is. For me, failure was getting a nine-to-five job in a miserable
[18:49.360 -> 18:54.600] working environment and not being able to go on holiday with my kids and screaming at my partner about money.
[18:54.600 -> 18:55.600] That was failure.
[18:55.600 -> 19:01.000] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life.
[19:01.000 -> 19:04.400] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share.
[19:04.440 -> 19:08.760] can live a better life. And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share. So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead
[19:08.760 -> 19:13.560] sells their phone plans online and passes those savings to you. And for a
[19:13.560 -> 19:17.160] limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new customer offer
[19:17.160 -> 19:27.280] that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan. That's unlimited talk, text and data for
[19:27.280 -> 19:33.920] $15 a month. And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison to
[19:33.920 -> 19:39.440] providers that we've worked with before is incredible. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you
[19:39.440 -> 19:45.320] with premium wireless plans for 15 bucks a month. So say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans,
[19:45.320 -> 19:47.040] those jaw-dropping monthly bills,
[19:47.040 -> 19:48.960] those unexpected overages,
[19:48.960 -> 19:51.480] because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text
[19:51.480 -> 19:53.280] and high-speed data delivered
[19:53.280 -> 19:56.040] on the nation's largest 5G network.
[19:56.040 -> 19:58.760] Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan.
[19:58.760 -> 20:00.100] Bring your phone number along
[20:00.100 -> 20:02.120] with all your existing contacts.
[20:02.120 -> 20:03.680] So ditch overpriced wireless
[20:03.680 -> 20:06.780] with Mint Mobile's limited- time deal and get premium wireless
[20:06.780 -> 20:09.740] service for just $15 a month.
[20:09.740 -> 20:14.660] To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just $15
[20:14.660 -> 20:21.960] a month, go to mintmobile.com.hpp
[20:21.960 -> 20:26.360] Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mint mobile.com slash
[20:26.720 -> 20:31.460] HPP additional taxes fees and restrictions apply see mint mobile for details
[20:32.040 -> 20:35.360] You're totally right about reframing what we think of failure
[20:35.360 -> 20:40.020] like if we'll if the three of us went to the gym, right and I said, right Stephen get the 25 kgs and
[20:40.480 -> 20:42.040] Try and do
[20:42.040 -> 20:43.120] eight
[20:43.120 -> 20:45.920] Curls right and you manage six. What would we say?
[20:46.480 -> 20:49.980] Fuck me. Well done, man. You managed six and 25 kg and that's heavy
[20:51.120 -> 20:56.920] That's failure because you've got to the point where you can't lift anymore. But we look at it and go. Wow. Well done
[20:56.920 -> 21:01.680] That's great because we've been trained in our minds to think that that type of failure exactly is a really good failure
[21:02.000 -> 21:07.640] Whereas if you can look at every failure in your whole life business failure relationship failure
[21:07.640 -> 21:09.640] Hmm and look at it like that
[21:09.640 -> 21:12.780] It's like you found your limit and so next time instead of six you're gonna do eight
[21:13.040 -> 21:16.240] Or instead of your business failing on this occasion next time it's gonna succeed
[21:16.280 -> 21:23.120] Yeah, but then that's what fascinates me that that's innate in you that that's almost organic. You've learned that through experience. Well, yeah
[21:23.640 -> 21:29.000] No, it is I've always I've always said that I was very very logical. I remember one and I sometimes
[21:29.000 -> 21:34.320] think logic beats intelligence to some degree. I remember this really example from when I
[21:34.320 -> 21:38.160] was younger and we were working in my mum's restaurant which was one of her 20 businesses
[21:38.160 -> 21:42.800] and we got tips, me and my two brothers, and they're mathletes which means they're in the
[21:42.800 -> 21:45.000] top 1000 in UK mathematics, right, geniuses, rewriting the textbooks, and they're mathletes, which means they're in the top 1,000 in UK mathematics,
[21:45.000 -> 21:47.000] right, geniuses, rewriting the textbooks.
[21:47.000 -> 21:49.500] And there was, the tips were thrown on the table,
[21:49.500 -> 21:51.000] and I looked at the tips,
[21:51.000 -> 21:53.000] and my brothers were there, like, calculating,
[21:53.000 -> 21:54.000] like, let's add it up.
[21:54.000 -> 21:57.000] And I looked, and I saw that there was
[21:57.000 -> 21:59.500] one of each coin three times.
[21:59.500 -> 22:01.500] So I thought, let's just all take a coin.
[22:01.500 -> 22:03.500] Do you know what I mean? There was 350p,
[22:03.500 -> 22:05.440] and there was three of us, so I thought, let's just all take one coin. And it was almost this moment where I thought, let's just all take a coin. Do you know what I mean? There was 350Ps, and there was three of us.
[22:05.440 -> 22:07.160] So I thought, let's just all take one coin.
[22:07.160 -> 22:08.800] And it was almost this moment where I thought,
[22:08.800 -> 22:10.240] my brain looks at something
[22:10.240 -> 22:12.180] in a very logical, fundamental way,
[22:12.180 -> 22:13.880] not necessarily the most intelligent way.
[22:13.880 -> 22:15.400] And sometimes when you look at things
[22:15.400 -> 22:18.560] just from these like logical first principles,
[22:18.560 -> 22:21.080] you're able to see much clearer.
[22:21.080 -> 22:22.820] And I think the same thing applies for my business.
[22:22.820 -> 22:24.160] It's why I quit my first startup,
[22:24.160 -> 22:28.320] because if you looked at it very logically logically what was happening with our first company,
[22:28.320 -> 22:32.400] there was a bigger opportunity elsewhere, but nobody else could see that. So I quit
[22:32.400 -> 22:36.400] at 21 years old and started social chain. Same with school, university, to be honest,
[22:36.400 -> 22:40.080] arriving at university in my first week to study business because I thought that, you
[22:40.080 -> 22:43.340] know, university was this place where we, they teach you actually business stuff and
[22:43.340 -> 22:45.760] how to run a business and how to be a business person.
[22:45.760 -> 22:48.000] And in the first week, looking across the room
[22:48.000 -> 22:50.200] and seeing everybody sleeping on their desks
[22:50.200 -> 22:51.960] and the guy at the front saying,
[22:51.960 -> 22:53.880] we're gonna learn how to make a poster here.
[22:53.880 -> 22:56.240] And me asking me these really fundamental questions,
[22:56.240 -> 22:57.840] which is, if I'm gonna be an entrepreneur,
[22:57.840 -> 22:59.800] who am I gonna show this degree to?
[22:59.800 -> 23:03.000] The second one is, I'm gonna end up in the same place
[23:03.000 -> 23:06.760] with the same certificate as this girl sleeping on her desk.
[23:06.760 -> 23:09.280] And is that gonna work for me or against me?
[23:09.280 -> 23:11.240] And so I only ever went to that lecture
[23:11.240 -> 23:13.360] because I had made the decision that,
[23:13.360 -> 23:16.040] again, very impulsively or very logically,
[23:16.040 -> 23:17.880] that this wasn't the place that was gonna get me
[23:17.880 -> 23:18.840] to where I wanted to go.
[23:18.840 -> 23:21.760] So dropped out straight after that lecture, never went back.
[23:21.760 -> 23:23.880] And I think that is a really good lesson for,
[23:23.880 -> 23:26.480] you know, probably the same as you, a lot of people will come to me on
[23:26.480 -> 23:30.520] social media and say I really want to work in TV I've just started a media
[23:30.520 -> 23:35.280] degree what's your advice my advice is always the same don't expect that media
[23:35.280 -> 23:39.500] degree is going to get you a job be different to everybody else and if
[23:39.500 -> 23:43.040] anyone listening to this that is at this point where they're looking for there
[23:43.040 -> 23:49.620] may be 18 19 they're looking for their they may be 18, 19, they're looking for their thing. My advice is always, don't do what 16,000 other media students are doing
[23:49.620 -> 23:53.640] every year, which is leave university with a degree, go for an interview and go, there's
[23:53.640 -> 23:59.640] my degree. Find the thing that separates you from everybody else. Write stuff for free
[23:59.640 -> 24:04.160] for your local paper. Record again and again and again, you either to camera if you want
[24:04.160 -> 24:05.520] to be on the telly, or using a camera if you want to be on the telly or
[24:07.960 -> 24:08.040] using a microphone if you want to be on the radio and
[24:12.440 -> 24:12.560] Then go to your friends and ask them to be searingly honest about whether it's shit or whether it's good
[24:17.600 -> 24:22.620] And keep on doing it and then when you go in for your first interview instead of just saying well I'm like everyone else. I've yeah, just done the same route. You can say well. I've done this off my own back
[24:22.620 -> 24:26.600] This is what I've done. This is what separates me from everybody else and that is
[24:27.360 -> 24:31.280] Absolutely the biggest lesson I think isn't it if you're like everybody else you'll end up where everybody else is
[24:31.280 -> 24:35.720] Yeah, what do they say? The final mile is the one that gets walked the least. Yeah, because everyone stops
[24:35.720 -> 24:41.440] Yeah, I would love to know what the culture is like a social change because I listen to your podcast, right?
[24:41.800 -> 24:45.440] It is challenging you ask hard questions, right? You put me as a listener of your podcast, right? It is challenging, you ask hard questions, right?
[24:45.440 -> 24:50.040] You put me, as a listener of your podcast, on the spot. Are you like that to the people
[24:50.040 -> 24:52.080] in social chain? Is that you every day?
[24:52.080 -> 24:57.940] Yeah, I'm very, very clear in what I believe and what I think we should be doing, even
[24:57.940 -> 25:01.980] if it's not been done before, if there's not a roadmap or a reason why. There's like an
[25:01.980 -> 25:08.840] innate sense of logic to me, and if you walk into social change offices in Manchester, you should know within five to ten seconds that this
[25:08.840 -> 25:12.340] is a uniquely different place. A place that isn't built on convention.
[25:12.340 -> 25:13.520] How is it different?
[25:13.520 -> 25:19.640] I mean, you walk in there, there's a hundred metre jungle where birds are singing, people
[25:19.640 -> 25:23.820] are happy, people are walking around doing whatever they want, there's no hierarchy,
[25:23.820 -> 25:25.260] you wouldn't know that I was the boss
[25:25.260 -> 25:31.060] You would you would have no idea I sit wearing my cap in my shorts with the interns, you know unlimited holidays
[25:31.060 -> 25:36.680] You don't have to tell someone when you're booking off a holiday and explain the rationale while you're doing that because I don't have to do
[25:36.680 -> 25:38.240] That so why would anyone else have to do that?
[25:38.240 -> 25:43.960] There's this kind of like sense of trust which is innate in the company where if you need to pop out today
[25:43.960 -> 25:48.600] And you don't come to work. You don't have to explain yourself to somebody. You know, this has all come from
[25:48.600 -> 25:53.880] this and there's a fucking massive slide and trees and 15 dogs running around and there's
[25:53.880 -> 25:57.040] a happiness team so there's five people that work in the happiness team, there's a happiness
[25:57.040 -> 26:03.000] director, we pay for your mental health therapy and we have, you know, between 15 and 20 people
[26:03.000 -> 26:06.800] seeing the therapist full time. Everybody everybody has a therapy appointment, including me,
[26:06.800 -> 26:09.300] that's opt-out to destigmatize it.
[26:09.300 -> 26:13.300] So, I go to a therapist if I don't want to go, I have to opt-out.
[26:13.300 -> 26:16.500] Which sounds like an intriguing place.
[26:16.500 -> 26:19.800] But how do you decide then who gets into that?
[26:19.800 -> 26:22.600] So, one of the real, probably the most important thing
[26:22.600 -> 26:24.000] about working with social chain is,
[26:24.000 -> 26:25.600] and this is what I hear the managers say,
[26:25.600 -> 26:27.600] oh they're a real social chain person.
[26:27.600 -> 26:31.280] And what they mean by that is like, they're a nice human being.
[26:31.280 -> 26:34.620] They're not manipulative, they're not in it for themselves,
[26:34.620 -> 26:36.520] they're a kind, nice human being.
[26:36.520 -> 26:39.920] And it doesn't take long in an environment of nice human beings,
[26:39.920 -> 26:42.520] where the nice human beings are doing the hiring,
[26:42.520 -> 26:45.080] for someone to stand out as not a nice human being I
[26:47.320 -> 26:52.680] Hate everything and I will not allow anything Which is like if you put a post-it note on the fridge saying who stole my milk or if you post into a group chat
[26:52.680 -> 26:54.680] social chain saying who's
[26:54.780 -> 27:00.240] Taken my pencil. This is like this is my kryptonite and everybody knows this so there's none of that
[27:00.800 -> 27:08.200] Some it's the reframing of what that moment was, you know, someone took your pencil because they were doing work for the company, right? They're not selling it on eBay or trying
[27:08.200 -> 27:11.820] to stab your family with it, you know? So that kind of compassion and that empathy and
[27:11.820 -> 27:16.200] that kindness is the foundation of this environment. And then from that, if it's a nice place to
[27:16.200 -> 27:19.360] be, you can trust people. And you don't need to give them a shit if they're 10 minutes
[27:19.360 -> 27:23.900] late for work or an hour late for work. You can trust, because you know that they like
[27:23.900 -> 27:28.160] being here. And that's kind of the way that I made it probably because I couldn't
[27:28.160 -> 27:31.800] like anywhere and so obviously what I'm constructing a business is I need to
[27:31.800 -> 27:36.120] build somewhere where Steve Bartlett would work but you still need high
[27:36.120 -> 27:39.920] achieving individuals that are driven and passionate just of course you can't
[27:39.920 -> 27:44.560] just fill a business with nice folk yeah and that's the other point which is you
[27:44.560 -> 27:49.760] need to be talented how do you instill the work ethic? By example I guess that's
[27:49.760 -> 27:55.760] probably the the way. You can't tell anybody to work hard that doesn't seem
[27:55.760 -> 28:02.360] like a good approach to take but there's a culture of trust and hard
[28:02.360 -> 28:06.240] work and getting the work done and And that's how social chain's always
[28:06.240 -> 28:07.240] grown.
[28:07.240 -> 28:10.600] So I remember talking to Rio Ferdinand about being at Manchester United and I was really
[28:10.600 -> 28:17.520] interested in how a new signing, or in your case a new employee at social chain, understands
[28:17.520 -> 28:21.040] the way it works. I remember saying to Rio, I was like, you know, what did Sir Alex Ferguson
[28:21.040 -> 28:28.400] used to say to new signings at Man United? And he looked at me kind of of perplexed and went he never said a thing about that. That's a culture
[28:28.400 -> 28:32.120] right? We were the players we set the tempo in that dressing room and you
[28:32.120 -> 28:36.920] would be welcoming with open arms it would be you're a Man United player we
[28:36.920 -> 28:40.080] would be watching like a hawk when they put the shirt on in training for the
[28:40.080 -> 28:44.360] first day is this player good enough can they mix it with us and the whole agenda
[28:44.360 -> 28:47.360] was set by the players when Owen Hargreaves signed for Man United
[28:47.360 -> 28:50.480] the halftime whistle went and he started walking off towards the tunnel one of
[28:50.480 -> 28:55.000] the players ran past him and went Owen run into the dressing room we all run into
[28:55.000 -> 28:57.400] the dressing room you don't show the opposition you're tired get in the
[28:57.400 -> 29:01.080] dressing room and he's like whoa man never was mentioned by the manager
[29:01.080 -> 29:04.720] I think I don't know this is it but I think it was mentioned by the manager
[29:04.720 -> 29:08.800] 20 years ago yeah and then it becomes this is the way. The culture. Yeah,
[29:08.800 -> 29:13.800] yeah. And the culture has to come from somewhere. It does, and that kind of culture comes from
[29:13.800 -> 29:17.800] a leader who is sure, and what happens, same with social chain, I probably was involved
[29:17.800 -> 29:22.080] operationally in the headquarters in Manchester five years ago when there was six of us, and
[29:22.080 -> 29:31.760] I was very, very clear, obsessively clear on who we are and what we do and then a seventh person joined and then an eighth person joined and when
[29:31.760 -> 29:37.720] The culture is strong. The newcomer becomes the culture if the culture is weak the culture becomes the newcomer, right?
[29:37.720 -> 29:41.560] So social chains were super clear on what we are in what a social chain person is
[29:41.560 -> 29:46.060] So now I'm five years in I don't have have to tell people, because they're joining 200,
[29:46.060 -> 29:49.640] in the case of the global business, 700 people that know.
[29:49.640 -> 29:54.040] So if they fall out of line, Kate Leeson, our managing director, will say, that's not
[29:54.040 -> 29:55.460] what a social chain person does.
[29:55.460 -> 29:57.120] We established this years and years ago.
[29:57.120 -> 30:01.640] And I no longer need to say it, because now my disciples, per se, are...
[30:01.640 -> 30:09.520] That's a big number though, for creator culture, 700 odd people, isn't? Well there's interesting research on that isn't there that says that we can only hold
[30:09.520 -> 30:16.080] in our heads 150 people at any one time and then after that the culture then starts to
[30:16.080 -> 30:21.160] get disseminated. So how have you sort of bridged that? Good question. To get beyond
[30:21.160 -> 30:29.160] that 150 and make sure the culture lives? So when you think about it as a global business, there are cultures within each country. So
[30:29.160 -> 30:35.280] like the social chain New York team, there's about 50, 60 people there. They are, the culture
[30:35.280 -> 30:39.760] is perfect. We actually score it. We ask people various questions about the development, the
[30:39.760 -> 30:44.180] happiness, the people they're working with, and they're like a nine out of 10 on average.
[30:44.180 -> 30:50.400] In the UK, it's a little bit bigger. So it's about an 8.3 out of 10. And as cultures get bigger, we
[30:50.400 -> 30:55.520] do see a little bit of a decline. But it's kind of like microcultures, so I don't think
[30:55.520 -> 30:59.600] any one team is more than 100 people. I'm very conscious of what you're saying. I'm
[30:59.600 -> 31:04.480] conscious of the fact that things get a little bit too diluted at a point, but the happiness
[31:04.480 -> 31:06.080] team has been a revelation for us.
[31:06.080 -> 31:12.360] I see your role as being almost symbolic then, that you have to lead by example there, because
[31:12.360 -> 31:16.740] you can't go and speak to all 700 people, getting into the detail that you were when
[31:16.740 -> 31:20.860] you first launched it. You spoke about your diary and you shared that diary with people
[31:20.860 -> 31:26.120] of your ambitions and
[31:22.440 -> 31:28.840] things like that. So what are the symbols of the
[31:26.120 -> 31:30.560] culture now that you embody when
[31:28.840 -> 31:32.000] you lead by example? Do you know I think
[31:30.560 -> 31:33.480] something really interesting and
[31:32.000 -> 31:34.560] there's almost a parallel between a
[31:33.480 -> 31:36.960] conversation that me and Jake were
[31:34.560 -> 31:40.560] having about the about social media and
[31:36.960 -> 31:43.320] abuse and and the Caroline Fleck tragedy
[31:40.560 -> 31:45.520] that that took place where a platform or
[31:43.320 -> 31:45.960] an environment can bring out the best or worst
[31:45.960 -> 31:51.720] in people and it's actually the infrastructure and the way that the environment is designed
[31:51.720 -> 31:57.720] that brings out that certain darkness or toxicity in someone. And it takes me back to when I
[31:57.720 -> 32:01.520] was in San Francisco building social networks when I was 21 years old with Michael Birch
[32:01.520 -> 32:09.080] who was the founder of Bebo.com. I remember building a little social network where, on one hand, during the day, my users
[32:09.080 -> 32:11.800] would do very normal things.
[32:11.800 -> 32:14.400] There would be teachers, nice people, lovely people.
[32:14.400 -> 32:17.760] Then when they went home at night, they would be vulgar.
[32:17.760 -> 32:19.040] And it was the same person.
[32:19.040 -> 32:22.600] He would go home and expose himself.
[32:22.600 -> 32:26.480] And it made me think that, you know, the creepiness and these horrible things
[32:26.480 -> 32:27.960] are in all of us, right?
[32:27.960 -> 32:30.780] We're all creeps in the right context.
[32:30.780 -> 32:32.120] In the context of this social platform,
[32:32.120 -> 32:34.000] it was because it was anonymous
[32:34.000 -> 32:36.160] that he was being so vulgar at nighttime.
[32:36.160 -> 32:37.960] And I think about the same thing with social media.
[32:37.960 -> 32:40.720] The reason why people are, how they are in social media
[32:40.720 -> 32:42.260] and so toxic and disgusting,
[32:42.260 -> 32:45.060] isn't because that's the full entirety of
[32:45.060 -> 32:48.900] their character, it's because of the environment. You are rewarded with likes and follows and
[32:48.900 -> 32:53.260] retweets for cussing someone out and going at a celebrity because then you're, you know,
[32:53.260 -> 32:59.020] a tough guy. And also the algorithm magnifies that which is already being magnified. So
[32:59.020 -> 33:02.220] indifference and indifferent messages, me telling Jake he has nice hair and he did well
[33:02.220 -> 33:06.480] today is going to do nothing. I'm not incentivized to do that. I'm incentivized to rip him apart.
[33:06.480 -> 33:08.820] And I think about the same in company culture.
[33:08.820 -> 33:11.020] I'm not able to be there and tell them what to do,
[33:11.020 -> 33:12.700] but I can create an environment
[33:12.700 -> 33:14.280] which is conducive with kindness,
[33:14.280 -> 33:15.940] where kindness is incentivized,
[33:15.940 -> 33:18.700] where every single Friday we have a massive wall,
[33:18.700 -> 33:20.260] which is just the wall of thanks,
[33:20.260 -> 33:21.840] and we go off it, you pick something off,
[33:21.840 -> 33:23.100] you stand in front of the team and say,
[33:23.100 -> 33:29.440] Jenny, here's a bottle of Prosecco, thank you so much for helping me with my finger when I cut it in the kitchen.
[33:29.440 -> 33:34.880] And you can create an environment where kindness is the thing you're rewarded for, not bitchiness.
[33:34.880 -> 33:38.400] And that is a lot of my job. I can remind people on the walls, we have things written,
[33:38.400 -> 33:41.920] and I can do my broadcast every month called Full Disclosure,
[33:41.920 -> 33:47.640] but it's focusing on the environment that you're putting those people in. I could make the same people
[33:47.640 -> 33:50.600] be assholes, I guarantee it, if I change the environment.
[33:50.600 -> 33:54.840] So again, when we go back to that belief thing, so I love this idea, I mean one of
[33:54.840 -> 33:57.840] the big arguments that I have to make is that people dismiss what you're
[33:57.840 -> 34:01.080] describing as soft skills and my argument is it's a soft skills that lead
[34:01.080 -> 34:06.760] to hard results, that being kind creates the environment where people then go the extra mile and things like that
[34:07.140 -> 34:11.680] To take you back to your childhood in Plymouth and you were clear that you didn't want a nine-to-five
[34:11.680 -> 34:16.800] You didn't want that frustration of a life like that. Where did you learn that kindness?
[34:17.620 -> 34:20.440] Gets you results. There's a few things
[34:20.920 -> 34:24.280] You have to be in a situation where someone was somewhat unkind to you
[34:24.280 -> 34:30.480] I remember a few occasions and they were all in early jobs that I had, where I was
[34:30.480 -> 34:37.240] working in call centres and someone could be so mean to me or leave a passive aggressive
[34:37.240 -> 34:40.880] note about something I'd left out on the side and the impact it had on me and how much it
[34:40.880 -> 34:46.640] made me hate work. The other thing was I could do nothing about it. When you're an employee, especially a junior one,
[34:46.640 -> 34:48.920] you can't complain about someone above you.
[34:48.920 -> 34:50.120] You know, you have no control.
[34:50.120 -> 34:52.300] So when I finally had the chance to do something
[34:52.300 -> 34:55.280] about workplace bullying or that kind of thing,
[34:55.280 -> 34:58.320] I have a no tolerance approach to it.
[34:58.320 -> 34:59.280] No one is gonna do it.
[34:59.280 -> 35:00.760] No one is gonna let me know that it happened
[35:00.760 -> 35:02.660] and everybody knows that that works for me.
[35:02.660 -> 35:04.440] There's no passive aggressiveness.
[35:04.440 -> 35:08.400] In fact, it sounds pretty crazy, but if someone posts in one of our internal groups, even now,
[35:08.400 -> 35:11.400] and there's 700-odd people around the world, and they say,
[35:11.400 -> 35:13.400] which thief stole my pencil?
[35:13.400 -> 35:15.400] I will call you.
[35:15.400 -> 35:17.400] No matter where I am on planet Earth, I'll call you.
[35:17.400 -> 35:18.400] What would you say?
[35:18.400 -> 35:21.400] I'd go and ask you why you said that, and explain to you that
[35:21.400 -> 35:25.140] calling your colleagues a thief, even if it was a joke, is not what
[35:25.140 -> 35:26.760] we do here.
[35:26.760 -> 35:30.760] Can anyone live a high performance life?
[35:30.760 -> 35:35.640] Great question that I have never thought about. It will be a lot harder for some people. I
[35:35.640 -> 35:43.880] think that your early childhood and what happens to you and maybe a genetic element makes it
[35:43.880 -> 35:48.880] slightly easier for you to deal with the consequences of living
[35:48.880 -> 35:53.480] a high-performance life. I think in some respects I'm somewhat diseased. I think the way that
[35:53.480 -> 35:57.640] I'm able to operate is some kind of like mental illness.
[35:57.640 -> 35:58.640] Are you happy?
[35:58.640 -> 36:07.000] Yes. Yes. And I realized quite recently that I've always been, but I didn't think I was yet.
[36:07.000 -> 36:09.000] So how did you reframe that?
[36:09.000 -> 36:17.000] I thought, again because of my upbringing, that I couldn't possibly be happy until I was filthy, filthy rich and on private jets.
[36:17.000 -> 36:19.000] And then it was the day where someone came up to me and said,
[36:19.000 -> 36:22.000] we'll buy your business for tens and tens of millions.
[36:22.000 -> 36:25.140] I went home, went on Rightmove, AutoTrader,
[36:25.140 -> 36:28.720] on my mother's life, I loaded up on Rightmove and AutoTrader. That's 18 year old Steve showing
[36:28.720 -> 36:33.040] up to get the rewards that he thought he was working hard for. And just feeling this total
[36:33.040 -> 36:36.800] sense of anti-climax and almost looking at these things and thinking, you know, if I
[36:36.800 -> 36:41.280] buy a mansion in the countryside, I actually think I'm going to be poorer, in a sense.
[36:41.280 -> 36:43.960] Then going through about six months of saying, so what were you doing all of this for? You
[36:43.960 -> 36:47.760] know you were doing it for something, but you had told yourself you were doing it for material
[36:47.760 -> 36:53.840] rewards. What was the actual reason? And then when you come to terms with the fact that you'll never
[36:53.840 -> 36:58.960] get there, the question becomes, okay, so this must be there. And then I started to realize that,
[36:58.960 -> 37:03.680] in fact, you were as happy now as you were when you were 18, stealing Chicago town pizzas,
[37:03.680 -> 37:08.880] living in Moss Side in Manchester. You were as happy then as you are now. And as Jake said when
[37:08.880 -> 37:13.320] he came on my podcast, that nothing has changed. And in fact, the only thing hanging over you
[37:13.320 -> 37:16.840] that might have made you miserable was the thought that you couldn't possibly be happy
[37:16.840 -> 37:21.080] because you hadn't got there yet. And then again, when you realize that there doesn't
[37:21.080 -> 37:26.800] exist and there is, if you think that there is some place in the future It'll never be where you are now, you know
[37:27.020 -> 37:32.020] You're forced to to realize that this is it and this is great and I'm enough and I have enough
[37:32.020 -> 37:38.220] I'm as successful as I need to be and I just need to fill my life with with more things that make me happy
[37:38.340 -> 37:42.440] There's one thing I think about right? I remember listen to a podcast of yours once where you spoke about
[37:42.900 -> 37:47.100] You've been pushing for success so hard you sacrifice relationships
[37:47.100 -> 37:54.780] Yeah, right. Are you single at the moment? No good because you know what I and I firmly believe as we sit here now
[37:54.780 -> 37:58.000] We talk about you know, how lucky we all are now blessed
[37:58.000 -> 38:03.640] We all are and how well things are going right it all ends and I am an absolute firm believer
[38:03.840 -> 38:07.580] That what is left at the very end is your relationships. Don't
[38:08.120 -> 38:13.040] Do all this at the expense of relationships because that will be a regret
[38:13.040 -> 38:19.040] I think you might agree. It took me a long time to realize that maybe I've only realized that in the last 12 months
[38:19.040 -> 38:21.120] And now I've started to evangelize about it
[38:21.120 -> 38:29.440] I've tried to tell all of my little the hustle porn stars that I think are following me in my wake to not sacrifice their friends, family and girlfriends.
[38:29.440 -> 38:36.040] Listen, we always finish with some quickfire questions. Okay. Nice and speedy. Three non-negotiable
[38:36.040 -> 38:40.960] behaviors that you and the people around you must buy into.
[38:40.960 -> 38:50.000] Optimism, kindness. and resilience I'd say.
[38:50.000 -> 38:55.000] Yeah I say resilience because people think of the way of being tough, that's not how I see it,
[38:55.000 -> 39:00.000] is being able to handle when things don't work out the way that you might have wanted them to go,
[39:00.000 -> 39:04.000] but keep moving forward regardless, not being defeated by what happens to you,
[39:04.000 -> 39:07.100] not becoming what happens to you. So what happens to you so what advice would you give a
[39:07.100 -> 39:12.680] teenage Steven just that's an out you were right when you thought that you
[39:12.680 -> 39:16.560] could regardless of grades and regardless of not having the silver
[39:16.560 -> 39:20.880] spoon or anything you were right in that yeah and that that did that actually
[39:20.880 -> 39:26.800] didn't matter what mattered more wasn't your material circumstances, it was the circumstances of your mind.
[39:26.800 -> 39:28.840] How important is legacy to you?
[39:29.920 -> 39:33.040] Not that important, to be honest.
[39:33.040 -> 39:34.960] That's not to say that I don't wanna help
[39:34.960 -> 39:36.880] as many people as I can,
[39:36.880 -> 39:40.280] but legacy, I'm okay with dying and never being here again.
[39:40.280 -> 39:41.760] How did I feel 100 years ago?
[39:41.760 -> 39:43.480] Great, I was dead then.
[39:43.480 -> 39:49.000] So I don't care about death. I have this great thing, this opportunity called life.
[39:49.000 -> 39:51.000] Do my best and then my time will come and I'm dead.
[39:51.000 -> 39:54.000] And do I care about statues when I'm gone? No, I won't be here to see them.
[39:54.000 -> 39:58.000] So what one golden rule would you pass on for our listeners
[39:58.000 -> 40:01.000] that are interested in living a high performance life?
[40:01.000 -> 40:06.000] I think it's heavily inspired by the time I've spent with Jake today, which is
[40:06.000 -> 40:11.840] just that really all of your goals and all of your ambitions and everything you might
[40:11.840 -> 40:18.000] want to achieve live in believing you can and making it one tiny step in that direction.
[40:18.000 -> 40:22.160] Sometimes it feels like ambitions and goals are like a big mountain, and they are in many
[40:22.160 -> 40:25.800] respects, but the mountain is moved one small pebble at a time,
[40:25.800 -> 40:28.040] and that's the way to get there.
[40:28.040 -> 40:31.880] And honestly, it's all about your mind and your thoughts.
[40:31.880 -> 40:34.960] So instead of trying to work on moving the world,
[40:34.960 -> 40:37.680] I think you should really work on building evidence
[40:37.680 -> 40:39.760] in yourself and getting more positive in your thoughts
[40:39.760 -> 40:43.280] by taking one pebble away at a time.
[40:43.280 -> 40:44.520] What a lovely way to end.
[40:44.520 -> 40:45.380] Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute honor. It's been a a lovely way to end. Thank you so much.
[40:45.380 -> 40:46.200] Thank you so much for having me.
[40:46.200 -> 40:47.040] It's an absolute honor.
[40:47.040 -> 40:47.880] It's been a pleasure.
[40:47.880 -> 40:48.700] I mean that, thank you guys.
[40:51.040 -> 40:52.000] Damien.
[40:52.000 -> 40:53.160] Jake.
[40:53.160 -> 40:55.520] Well, Stephen is an amazing individual.
[40:55.520 -> 40:58.120] I think I'm just left with this feeling of,
[40:58.120 -> 41:02.080] well, slight inadequacy because mentally
[41:02.080 -> 41:03.600] he seems to be so strong.
[41:03.600 -> 41:06.000] He seems like it's all so sorted, you know?
[41:06.000 -> 41:11.520] Yeah, he was very much, wasn't he? There was like a real innate wisdom to him that you
[41:11.520 -> 41:16.920] wouldn't necessarily associate with somebody of 27. But I think some of that comes from
[41:16.920 -> 41:22.240] the fact that he's so open, he's open to new ideas, he's open to new ways of working. You
[41:22.240 -> 41:28.760] know, he's constantly questioning, that curiosity was almost just coming off him in waves. At his age I was running
[41:28.760 -> 41:32.560] around the Blue Peter garden dressed as a pink lobster popping balloons filled
[41:32.560 -> 41:37.440] with foam let's just have a moment to remember the difference between
[41:37.440 -> 41:42.800] between him and me but I don't know what the future holds for him and you
[41:42.800 -> 41:47.000] know you kind of sense that whatever he puts his mind to he's gonna make it Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud beth mae'r dyfodol ar ei gilydd. Rydych chi'n teimlo'n ffordd bod beth bynnag y byddwch chi'n ei chynllunio,
[41:47.000 -> 41:48.320] yn gwneud yn gyffrous.
[41:48.320 -> 41:50.320] A dwi ddim yn gwybod beth sy'n digwydd.
[41:50.320 -> 41:54.160] Rwy'n credu y byddai'n ddiddorol o'r cymhwysodau ar gyfer rai o'r arweinwyr
[41:54.160 -> 41:57.520] a oeddwn i'n gofyn y cwestiwn o'r cyflymau cyflymau o'r cyd-dynas.
[41:57.520 -> 41:59.280] Ac ar gyfer nhw, nid oedd o'n i.
[41:59.280 -> 42:01.960] Roedd y cwestiwn am ymdrechu ar y moment,
[42:01.960 -> 42:06.360] a mwynhau bywydau a'r hyn sy'n ei ddod i'n ffwrdd yn y moment, yn hytrach it throws at us in the moment rather
[42:06.360 -> 42:10.120] than constantly be planning ahead for a better future and I thought that was
[42:10.120 -> 42:13.220] really that was really quite profound.
[42:13.220 -> 42:16.920] Well huge thanks to Stephen Bartlett. Man he's so
[42:16.920 -> 42:21.280] busy jetting around the world but he still takes time to sit and talk to us
[42:21.280 -> 42:29.440] and I really hope you got a lot out of that conversation. I know that I did listen if you enjoyed it, please leave a review if you don't already, please subscribe
[42:30.000 -> 42:33.020] Please join me in saying thanks to Finn Ryan for hard work
[42:33.020 -> 43:04.240] He's from rethink audio and do keep an eye across social media for details of the next high-performance podcast Get the best workout with the best-kept secret in fitness.
[43:04.240 -> 43:06.680] HYDRO – The state-of- state of the art at home rower.
[43:06.680 -> 43:09.120] Hydro engages 86% of your muscles,
[43:09.120 -> 43:11.100] delivering the ultimate full body workout
[43:11.100 -> 43:12.240] in just 20 minutes.
[43:12.240 -> 43:13.380] From advanced to beginner,
[43:13.380 -> 43:15.320] Hydro has over 4,000 classes
[43:15.320 -> 43:16.880] that are shot all over the world
[43:16.880 -> 43:19.580] and are taught by Olympians and world class athletes.
[43:19.580 -> 43:22.400] For a 30 day risk free trial with free standard shipping,
[43:22.400 -> 43:31.560] go to hydro.com and use code ROW500 to save up to $500. That's H-Y-D-R-O-W.com. Code ROW500.
[43:31.560 -> 43:36.480] Every year one thing is always predictable. Postage costs go up. Stamps.com gives you
[43:36.480 -> 43:42.280] crazy discounts of up to 89% off USPS and UPS services, so your business will
[43:42.280 -> 43:48.200] barely notice the change. Stamps.com has been indispensable for over 1 million businesses just like yours.
[43:48.200 -> 43:50.240] It's like your own personal post office.
[43:50.240 -> 43:52.280] No lines, no traffic, no waiting.
[43:52.280 -> 43:55.400] Sign up with promo code program for a four-week trial,
[43:55.400 -> 43:58.000] plus free postage and a free digital scale.
[43:58.000 -> 44:00.120] No long-term commitments or contracts.
[44:00.120 -> 44:02.560] That's Stamps.com code program.
[44:02.560 -> 44:04.920] Just when you thought the world's most comfortable shoe
[44:04.920 -> 44:06.640] couldn't get any more comfortable,
[44:06.640 -> 44:08.360] well, it did.
[44:08.360 -> 44:12.720] Introducing the Allbirds Wool Runner 2, the next-gen version of the legendary shoe that
[44:12.720 -> 44:13.720] started it all.
[44:13.720 -> 44:19.040] It's been refined, redesigned, and completely redefined with more than a dozen upgrades.
[44:19.040 -> 44:24.120] It delivers comfy all-day wear that's built for bliss, turning your Cloud 9 into a 10.
[44:24.120 -> 44:29.480] Plus, they're made with sustainability in mind, so you can feel good with each step you take. Added cushioning
[44:29.480 -> 44:35.960] that delivers a plush ride? Check. An ultra-cozy merino wool upper for a soft fit and feel?
[44:35.960 -> 44:41.640] Check. Improved durability that offers lasting wear and comfort? Check, check, and check.
[44:41.640 -> 44:46.000] Lace up a pair and check off next-level level comfort too, because when your feet are happy, the
[44:46.000 -> 44:47.400] rest of you follows.
[44:47.400 -> 44:51.160] Wherever you're headed, it's easy to keep up the pace when you wear Allbirds.
[44:51.160 -> 44:55.960] Get yours at allbirds.com and use code FRESH24 to score a free pair of socks with purchase
[44:55.960 -> 44:56.960] today.
[44:56.960 -> 45:02.120] That's a free pair of socks with purchase at allbirds.com, code FRESH24.
[44:58.100 -> 45:00.340] gds.com, code fresh24.