E27 - Lily Cole: Breaking barriers with courage

Lily Cole is an author, actress, entrepreneur, philanthropist and former supermodel.

Lily was well known for her modelling career but is now better known as co-founder of Impossible.com: a technology company that uses tech to solve social and environmental problems.

Lily was the youngest model to appear on the cover of British Vogue, and was listed by French Vogue as one of the top 30 models of the 2000s. As an advocate for sociopolitical and environmental issues, Lily has employed technology, writing, filmmaking and public speaking as means to build awareness.

Lily has also spoken at Davos, Google's Zeitgeist, Wired and Web Summit.

LIly’s has a podcast and book called ‘Who Cares Wins’. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/who-cares-wins-with-lily-cole/id1526708048 https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/305695/who-cares-wins/9780241309124 https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/305/305695/who-cares-wins/9780241309124.html

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# Podcast Episode Summary:

**Title:** Lily Cole: Who Cares Wins

**Guest:** Lily Cole, author, actress, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and former supermodel

**Topics Discussed:**

* Lily's journey from supermodel to co-founder of Impossible.com, a technology company using tech to solve social and environmental problems.
* Lily's advocacy for sociopolitical and environmental issues through technology, writing, filmmaking, and public speaking.
* The importance of courage in living your values and making a difference in the world.
* Balancing personal risk with the desire to make a positive impact.
* The challenges of maintaining personal strength and confidence in the face of rejection and criticism.
* The lessons Lily learned from her early modeling career that have shaped her subsequent endeavors.
* The value of having multiple interests and pursuing diverse career paths.
* The importance of happiness and contentment as measures of success.

**Key Points:**

* Lily's transition from modeling to entrepreneurship and activism demonstrates the power of using one's platform to address important issues.
* Courage is essential for taking risks and standing up for what you believe in, even when it means facing criticism or rejection.
* Maintaining self-confidence and resilience is crucial for overcoming challenges and achieving success.
* Embracing diverse interests and pursuing multiple career paths can lead to a more fulfilling and well-rounded life.
* Ultimately, the most important measure of success is personal happiness and contentment.

**Memorable Quotes:**

* "I couldn't help but care and want to understand more and want to see what I could maybe do." - Lily Cole on her growing awareness of social and environmental issues.
* "I felt like it wasn't a choice. I couldn't just stop caring. I couldn't just switch that part of my brain off." - Lily Cole on the importance of following her values.
* "I think that's what delivers usually the best results." - Lily Cole on the importance of putting 100% of your heart and mind into what you're doing.
* "I'm often now I'm 32. I'm often like trying to get back to my 18 year old headspace." - Lily Cole on the value of youthful optimism and belief in possibilities.
* "The best success in life is happiness." - Lily Cole on the ultimate measure of success.

**Overall Message:**

Lily Cole's journey from supermodel to entrepreneur, activist, and author highlights the importance of courage, resilience, and the pursuit of happiness in making a positive impact on the world. Her experiences and insights offer valuable lessons for anyone seeking to live a high-performance life.

# Podcast Episode Summary: "Who Cares Wins with Lily Cole"

## Podcast Overview:

* Lily Cole is an author, actress, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and former supermodel.
* She is also the co-founder of Impossible.com, a technology company that uses technology to solve social and environmental problems.
* Lily's podcast and book, "Who Cares Wins," focus on exploring sociopolitical and environmental issues through conversations with experts and thought leaders.

## Key Points:

### 1. Work-Life Balance and Avoiding Burnout:

* Lily emphasizes the importance of structuring time to maintain a healthy work-life balance.
* She suggests setting boundaries, such as specific work hours, to prevent burnout and maintain happiness.
* Lily also highlights the value of voluntary simplicity and resisting the constant pursuit of more and better.

### 2. Dealing with External Criticism:

* Lily acknowledges that she has faced criticism throughout her career, particularly as a young model.
* She believes that criticism is the enemy of creativity and that it is important to create boundaries to protect mental health and well-being.
* Lily mentions two specific instances of criticism she received: one related to her selection as a creative partner for the Bronte Parsonage Museum and another related to her association with a magazine's positioning on feminism.

### 3. The Importance of Constructive Criticism:

* Lily distinguishes between constructive and mean-spirited criticism.
* She welcomes constructive criticism as an opportunity to learn and grow.
* However, she finds mean-spirited criticism unhelpful and damaging to mental health.

### 4. Polarization and the Need for Discourse:

* Lily expresses concern about the increasing polarization in society and the tendency to cancel people with different opinions.
* She believes that social media has contributed to this polarization by creating filter bubbles and reinforcing echo chambers.
* Lily advocates for listening to different perspectives and engaging in respectful conversations to find solutions to complex issues.

### 5. The Mission of Happiness:

* Lily's mission is to pursue happiness, both for herself and for others.
* She believes that true happiness comes from doing what one enjoys and living in alignment with one's values.
* Lily emphasizes the importance of creativity and making time for activities that bring joy and fulfillment.

### 6. The Journey to Self-Discovery:

* Lily acknowledges that the journey to self-discovery and happiness is ongoing.
* She encourages listeners to be patient with themselves and to recognize that it is a process of growth and evolution.
* Lily suggests practices like meditation and self-reflection to help individuals connect with their inner selves and make choices that align with their values.

### 7. Balancing Magic and Caution in Raising a Child:

* Lily discusses the challenge of raising a child in a world where both magic and negativity exist.
* She believes in encouraging her daughter's natural curiosity and sense of wonder while also providing sensible guidance about risks.
* Lily emphasizes the importance of respecting her daughter's individuality and allowing her to make her own choices.

### 8. Avoiding Helicopter Parenting and Embracing Failure:

* Lily expresses concern about the prevalence of helicopter parenting, which can stifle a child's ability to learn from failure.
* She believes that failure is a valuable experience that helps children build resilience and learn from their mistakes.
* Lily encourages parents to allow their children to experience failure and to provide support and guidance rather than micromanaging their lives.

Overall, the podcast episode provides insightful perspectives on various topics, including work-life balance, dealing with criticism, the importance of discourse, the pursuit of happiness, the journey of self-discovery, and raising a child in a complex world.

# Podcast Summary: Lily Cole – Who Cares Wins?

In this episode of the High-Performance Podcast, Damien and Jake engage in a thought-provoking conversation with Lily Cole, a renowned model, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and author. Lily shares her unique perspectives on success, failure, resilience, and the importance of surrounding oneself with the right people.

**Key Points:**

* **Success and Failure:** Lily emphasizes that success is not about always winning but rather about learning from failures and persevering. She encourages individuals to embrace failure as an opportunity for growth and improvement.

* **Building Resilience:** Lily highlights the significance of cultivating resilience, particularly in young children. She believes that allowing children to experience challenges and learn from their mistakes helps them develop resilience and the ability to cope with setbacks.

* **Surrounding Yourself with the Right People:** Lily stresses the importance of surrounding oneself with positive and supportive individuals who contribute to personal growth and happiness. She emphasizes the need to carefully select the people who have a meaningful impact on one's life.

* **The Power of Kindness:** Lily advocates for the transformative power of kindness and compassion. She proposes that spreading kindness creates a positive ripple effect, leading to a more harmonious and fulfilling world.

* **Legacy and Impact:** Lily reflects on the significance of leaving a positive legacy and making a meaningful impact on the world. She believes that true legacy is not about fame or recognition but rather about the positive difference one makes in the lives of others.

* **Curiosity and Exploration:** Lily emphasizes the importance of staying curious and embracing a mindset of exploration. She believes that curiosity fuels enthusiasm and drives individuals to pursue their passions and achieve high performance.

**Memorable Quotes:**

* "Success is happiness, and you learn through failure." - Lily Cole

* "I think there's kind of a core group of people who are like some of my best friends that have been best friends for a very long time... But even sometimes, I've found, you know, that some of my best friends shift out of my life in the past." - Lily Cole

* "I think kindness is really important. You know how sometimes we feel like we can't impact the world, yeah? Wouldn't it be great if we said, right, all I'm gonna do is spread total happiness into the small circle around me with the contract that all those other people in that circle agree to do it with their circle." - Lily Cole

* "I think it's really important, but it doesn't have to be in a like like a famous way I don't need to have like a plinth or something it's more about feeling good about my impact on the world." - Lily Cole

* "Stay curious, I guess, because the curiosity drives enthusiasm and the enthusiasm drives the work." - Lily Cole

**Overall Message:**

Lily Cole's appearance on the High-Performance Podcast offers valuable insights into the importance of resilience, surrounding oneself with the right people, embracing kindness, and pursuing a life of purpose and impact. Her emphasis on learning from failures, cultivating curiosity, and making a positive difference in the world resonates with listeners, inspiring them to strive for high performance in all aspects of life.

The podcast features Lily Cole, an accomplished individual known for her modeling career, entrepreneurial ventures, and philanthropic efforts. She is also the co-founder of Impossible.com, a technology company focused on solving social and environmental issues.

Lily's podcast and book, titled "Who Cares Wins," delve into various topics related to social and environmental issues. She emphasizes the importance of technology, writing, filmmaking, and public speaking as tools to raise awareness and drive change.

The podcast explores the idea of holding beliefs lightly, a concept that encourages individuals to remain open-minded and adaptable in their approach to life. This flexibility allows for continuous learning and unlearning, which is considered a key trait among high performers.

The discussion highlights the significance of taking responsibility for one's actions and choices. By embracing responsibility, individuals can make positive contributions to their communities and the world at large.

The podcast also emphasizes the value of listening to diverse perspectives and challenging oneself to consider different viewpoints. This openness to new ideas fosters personal growth and development.

Overall, the podcast aims to inspire listeners to lead high-performance lives, characterized by a commitment to learning, adaptability, and a sense of responsibility towards society and the environment.

[00:00.000 -> 00:07.260] Hi there, welcome along to this week's high performance podcast, your weekly dose of inspiration
[00:07.260 -> 00:11.640] and information to help you live a high performance life. I can't wait for you to hear what this
[00:11.640 -> 00:16.180] week's guest has to say. But first, let me just remind you that you can find us on YouTube.
[00:16.180 -> 00:21.440] Just search for high performance podcast and join the thousands of people who've watched
[00:21.440 -> 00:26.600] millions of episodes on YouTube so far. As well as that, you can find us on Instagram.
[00:26.600 -> 00:28.800] Professor Damien is at LiquidThinker.
[00:28.800 -> 00:33.700] I'm at jakehumphrey and we'd love you to follow the podcast at High Performance
[00:33.700 -> 00:37.800] or check us out online highperformancepodcast.co.uk.
[00:37.800 -> 00:43.500] But however you interact with us, however you listen, wherever you're listening, welcome along.
[00:43.500 -> 00:50.080] I'm so pleased you've chosen to spend some time with us on the High Performance Podcast and this is the kind of thing you're going to hear
[00:50.080 -> 00:54.240] this week. Actually, the version of reality that most of us have been taught in school,
[00:54.240 -> 00:59.760] but certainly I was taught in school, a quite mechanical Newtonian worldview that I would argue
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[01:33.040 -> 01:43.920] But for now, enjoy this week's episode of the High Performance Podcast.
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[04:22.000 -> 04:46.000] Hi there, I'm Jake Humphrey and you're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves See Mint Mobile for details. Mae'n gallu cyd-deall yn nifer o ffyrdd gwahanol. Rydym wedi'i drafod ar y pod ar nifer o eiddo. Ac rwy'n credu bod y gynoniad heddiw,
[04:46.000 -> 04:48.000] efallai ar y dechrau heb ei gwyddo,
[04:48.000 -> 04:50.000] wedi bod yn ddiddorol yn aml a'n aml eto.
[04:50.000 -> 04:52.000] Yn bwysig,
[04:52.000 -> 04:54.000] er mwyn golygu risgiau personol.
[04:54.000 -> 04:56.000] Ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r amser pan fydd pobl yn ddiddorol
[04:56.000 -> 04:58.000] yn gwybod eu bod yn gallu cael
[04:58.000 -> 05:00.000] arwain ar ymatebion eraill.
[05:00.000 -> 05:02.000] Iawn, yn unig, Jake.
[05:02.000 -> 05:04.000] Rwy'n hoffi'r definiad o ddiddorol
[05:04.000 -> 05:07.000] o bobl sy'n byw gyda'u gwerthoedd yn ymdrechion.
[05:07.000 -> 05:11.000] Dyma lle nid yw'n siarad yn un gêm da, ond mewn gwirionedd yw'n ymdrechion yn ei ddemonstrau,
[05:11.000 -> 05:17.000] a'n barod i gysylltu amser, paer a'r angen ar gyfer rhywbeth y mae'n ei gyrraedd.
[05:17.000 -> 05:21.000] Dyna pam rwy'n mwynhau i gynnal ymweld â'r gynoniad ddiweddar heno a ddod o'r gwirionedd ymlaen
[05:21.000 -> 05:28.640] am y gofyn y mae'n ei gyrraedd i byw gyda'ch gwerthoedd yn ymdrechion. find out more about that courage that it takes to live your values in action. Okay, well let's let's do it then. Let's meet a lady who was on the cover of
[05:28.640 -> 05:32.420] magazines as a teenager. She's modeled for the most famous brands and fashion
[05:32.420 -> 05:35.880] houses on the planet. She starred in films, yet throughout it all she's been
[05:35.880 -> 05:40.840] clear about her passion for humanitarian and environmental causes. She created
[05:40.840 -> 05:46.240] impossible.com which is an innovative group who are planet centric. It's well worth checking out their website.
[05:46.240 -> 05:48.000] She's also just written a book,
[05:48.000 -> 05:51.440] Who Cares Wins, about getting tough on climate change.
[05:51.440 -> 05:54.880] And she's spoken about the fact that even doing that and releasing that book,
[05:55.440 -> 05:59.920] she was concerned about the reaction, yet she still showed the courage to go ahead and do it.
[05:59.920 -> 06:03.520] So welcome to the High Performance Podcast, Lily Cole.
[06:03.520 -> 06:06.200] Oh, thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
[06:06.200 -> 06:08.560] So let's start as we always do with,
[06:08.560 -> 06:12.600] in your mind, what is high performance?
[06:12.600 -> 06:14.280] Oh, that's a good question.
[06:14.280 -> 06:16.520] I feel like it's about presence
[06:16.520 -> 06:18.780] and I'm not saying this on a kind of like,
[06:18.780 -> 06:20.800] I'm not analyzing myself in my answer.
[06:20.800 -> 06:24.280] I'm just thinking about when I see amazing performers,
[06:24.280 -> 06:25.240] whether that's kind
[06:25.240 -> 06:30.680] of super high level tennis players or amazing actors or, you know, people running companies
[06:30.680 -> 06:33.680] in a really, really good way, or, you know, there's many, many versions of it.
[06:33.680 -> 06:35.520] I feel like often it's about presence.
[06:35.520 -> 06:40.800] It's about putting like 100% of your heart and your mind into what you're doing.
[06:40.800 -> 06:43.600] I think that's what delivers usually the best results.
[06:43.600 -> 06:48.160] So let's talk then about you putting your heart and your mind into something other than
[06:48.160 -> 06:51.920] modelling and we'll talk about your career as well, but there was obviously a moment
[06:51.920 -> 06:57.080] where you maybe felt, you know, having my photo taken and looking amazing, it just isn't
[06:57.080 -> 07:01.200] enough for me, I have a voice and I want to share that voice.
[07:01.200 -> 07:02.880] Can you remember when that was?
[07:02.880 -> 07:06.320] Yeah, I mean, it's not just one specific moment.
[07:06.320 -> 07:10.960] So it's hard to kind of, I guess it's hard to think of like one specific moment. It was like
[07:10.960 -> 07:16.800] a very iterative thing that happened over time, that I was really on a journey of learning.
[07:16.800 -> 07:21.040] I think when I first started modeling, it was the first, it was super exciting. I mean,
[07:21.040 -> 07:25.040] I was literally a school kid who had never left Europe and always
[07:25.040 -> 07:29.600] wanted to kind of travel and suddenly I was like going around the world and meeting all these
[07:29.600 -> 07:35.520] grown-up creative people and having all these amazing opportunities, making money which I'd
[07:35.520 -> 07:40.400] never really made money before or we didn't have a lot of money. So there was a lot of excitement
[07:40.400 -> 07:45.000] at the beginning and then over time I started to,
[07:45.280 -> 07:48.200] you know, just understand a bit better maybe the impact
[07:48.200 -> 07:51.080] of what I was doing either because NGOs would contact me
[07:51.080 -> 07:53.000] with their work and the issues that they were trying
[07:53.000 -> 07:54.900] to draw attention to, or I got involved
[07:54.900 -> 07:56.880] in a few controversies for, well, there were a few
[07:56.880 -> 07:59.280] controversies around companies I was working for.
[07:59.280 -> 08:01.740] And that was a kind of iterative process
[08:01.740 -> 08:04.240] that as I opened my eyes to the issues,
[08:04.240 -> 08:07.140] I couldn't help but care and want to understand more
[08:07.140 -> 08:10.100] and want to see what I could maybe do.
[08:10.100 -> 08:12.180] So this takes us straight into the conversation
[08:12.180 -> 08:13.020] then about courage,
[08:13.020 -> 08:14.620] because there will be plenty of people
[08:14.620 -> 08:16.980] who are in your position who were modeling
[08:16.980 -> 08:18.940] and they heard about these stories and things
[08:18.940 -> 08:21.260] and they sort of knew it was wrong,
[08:21.260 -> 08:23.540] but what perhaps stopped them from taking action
[08:23.540 -> 08:27.480] was that it would have a personal impact on themselves and there will be people listening to this in
[08:27.480 -> 08:30.840] exactly the same position that you were in then where they have a decision to
[08:30.840 -> 08:35.800] make they know it's the right decision but it comes with risk so how do you
[08:35.800 -> 08:39.160] how do you balance that in your head and how do you make the decision or how did
[08:39.160 -> 08:42.680] you make the decision to do something that was risky?
[08:42.680 -> 08:45.620] Yeah I think I was aware that it was risky.
[08:45.620 -> 08:49.680] And I remember even my agent at the time,
[08:49.680 -> 08:50.520] you know, questioning,
[08:50.520 -> 08:52.280] aren't you biting the hand that feeds you
[08:52.280 -> 08:54.240] by criticizing, for example,
[08:54.240 -> 08:56.620] the fashion industry in certain ways.
[08:56.620 -> 08:59.180] And I still feel the residual effects of that now.
[08:59.180 -> 09:00.860] You know, I still feel that
[09:00.860 -> 09:02.480] I probably pissed some people off.
[09:02.480 -> 09:04.840] And I know I lost some work at the time,
[09:04.840 -> 09:09.480] but somehow the issues that I was trying to understand and trying to talk about
[09:09.480 -> 09:13.640] felt so much bigger than my personal career.
[09:13.640 -> 09:16.000] It didn't feel that hard actually.
[09:16.000 -> 09:17.800] I felt like it wasn't a choice.
[09:17.800 -> 09:20.160] I couldn't just stop caring.
[09:20.160 -> 09:24.200] I couldn't just switch that part of my brain off.
[09:24.200 -> 09:29.440] Maybe I'm just just, yeah, like switch that part of my brain off. And so maybe I'm just too opinionated, but I couldn't help being vocal and caring.
[09:29.440 -> 09:31.880] And I think maybe I always tried to do it in a humble way.
[09:31.880 -> 09:36.400] I like not point out people as bad because I realized quite early on how complex all
[09:36.400 -> 09:40.440] these problems are. And it was, yeah, a process of learning rather than me trying to say what's
[09:40.440 -> 09:44.840] right and wrong. So can I ask you a little bit about your background, Lily? Because I
[09:44.840 -> 09:48.400] think that you were doing this, as Jake said, at quite a young age, having
[09:48.400 -> 09:53.200] this courage to speak out and challenge convention. Could you tell us a little bit about your
[09:53.200 -> 09:57.800] relationship with your parents and the kind of lessons that they taught you? I mean, I
[09:57.800 -> 10:02.560] grew up with just my mum, so I have to kind of credit everything to her in a way, because
[10:02.560 -> 10:09.200] she was the kind of biggest influence on me growing up and she is a very smart and also very
[10:09.200 -> 10:13.040] caring person who feels deeply about different issues. She
[10:13.040 -> 10:16.080] actually just wrote an article last week that we helped publish, it's the first
[10:16.080 -> 10:18.960] time she's ever spoken out publicly because she felt
[10:18.960 -> 10:21.440] really strongly about how kind of COVID was
[10:21.440 -> 10:28.480] impacting on disabled communities because she's disabled. She's very, very private but that article is indicative of, I think, oedd ymdrech ar gyfer cymunedau ddysgwyr oherwydd ei fod yn ddysgwyr. Mae hi'n bwysig iawn, ond mae'r cyfrifoldeb hwnnw yn cydweithredol o'r
[10:28.480 -> 10:33.120] ystyriedolrwydd y mae hi wedi ei gael i bobl eraill sy'n dderbynio, ac roedd hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n teimlo
[10:33.120 -> 10:34.720] oedd yn effeithio arni yn groeso.
[10:34.720 -> 10:38.400] Felly, sut oedd eich mam yn teimlo, pan ddewch chi'n gyntaf i fynd i'r byd honno,
[10:38.400 -> 10:40.800] a oedd yn anodd i chi a'i gilydd,
[10:40.800 -> 10:44.880] pan oeddech chi yn 14, a oeddwch chi'n cael y cyfleoedd hyfryd
[10:44.880 -> 10:46.480] y mae moddlin wed eich cyhoeddi.
[10:47.040 -> 10:50.960] Pa ffordd o ddysgiodd eich bod chi wrth i chi i'ch ddod allan o'r fath yna?
[10:50.960 -> 10:55.920] Roedd e'n mynd i'r cyfarfod cyntaf ar y sefydliad moddling, ac rwy'n credu ei fod wedi bod yn ddigon cyffrous i mi.
[10:56.480 -> 11:01.920] Ac yna, mewn ffordd ddiddorol, fe, dych chi'n gwybod, mae e'n mam unig, fe roedd e'n ddisabled.
[11:01.920 -> 11:06.320] Rwy'n sylweddoli bod fy nhyrfad wedi mynd allan, ac mae'n eithaf cymryd ei gyfrwng, oherwydd a single mom, she was disabled. What I noticed was that my career took off and it almost took her by surprise
[11:06.320 -> 11:08.360] because she wasn't coming to every job.
[11:08.360 -> 11:09.920] She wasn't traveling around the world with me.
[11:09.920 -> 11:11.400] She wasn't really following what's happening.
[11:11.400 -> 11:14.120] And then just suddenly, you know, a year or two in,
[11:14.120 -> 11:17.400] she was like, oh wow, you're actually doing all right at this.
[11:18.680 -> 11:21.040] I'm interested to explore what your mindset was like
[11:21.040 -> 11:23.280] at that point, because you were only a teenager,
[11:23.280 -> 11:24.120] you were really young.
[11:24.120 -> 11:29.280] Yeah, it's a big thing to stand in front of a camera to smile it's quite I think
[11:29.280 -> 11:33.680] people that haven't been in that position they don't realise how kind of exposed you can feel
[11:33.680 -> 11:38.000] at times when you're when you're having your photo taken like that what was your approach
[11:38.000 -> 11:43.360] to kind of um maintaining your own personal strength in that period when obviously you know
[11:43.360 -> 11:48.960] you were also open to criticism from external people looking at photos of you or going to castings and
[11:48.960 -> 11:51.960] not being successful. It's hard, I think.
[11:51.960 -> 11:57.560] Yeah, I think the last point you made is probably the more important one in terms of rejection.
[11:57.560 -> 12:01.960] I think rejection is something that many, many people have to deal with. But I think
[12:01.960 -> 12:08.640] being self-employed and particularly being self-employed at a teenage age and your work being
[12:08.640 -> 12:15.120] based on how you look is quite a weird combination of factors. I write in my
[12:15.120 -> 12:18.880] book about a kind of reference to the fact that when I first started modeling
[12:18.880 -> 12:22.640] you're given this like big book that becomes your kind of
[12:22.640 -> 12:25.120] catalog of yourself, like a sales book, basically,
[12:25.120 -> 12:29.920] they put all the images of yourself. And initially, when you go to castings, you take that book
[12:29.920 -> 12:34.960] to show the casting director the pictures of you, which is such a surreal reality.
[12:34.960 -> 12:40.240] We think about it, but you're literally like your own traveling saleswoman, go turning up and,
[12:40.240 -> 12:46.800] you know, showing your own catalog of yourself and asking for permission to be liked or to work.
[12:46.800 -> 12:51.560] So it's a bit of a head fuck, I think, by its own nature.
[12:51.560 -> 12:54.200] At the same time, I was very lucky that I was quite successful quite early on.
[12:54.200 -> 12:57.720] So I actually didn't have to go to that many castings.
[12:57.720 -> 13:00.200] And with success, there's still a lot of rejection.
[13:00.200 -> 13:01.880] It doesn't mean you get every job.
[13:01.880 -> 13:03.840] Of course, it brings up its own levels of insecurity.
[13:03.840 -> 13:06.000] It's not a done deal.
[13:06.000 -> 13:11.740] But I also have to acknowledge that I was quite lucky and in a funny way, that luck
[13:11.740 -> 13:14.300] and success gave me maybe also a lot of confidence.
[13:14.300 -> 13:18.780] It's kind of a bit of a paradox that you have insecurity and confidence at the same time.
[13:18.780 -> 13:21.900] How did you turn the insecurity into the confidence?
[13:21.900 -> 13:24.420] I don't know necessarily that you can turn one into the other.
[13:24.420 -> 13:31.200] They just kind of, for me at least, coexisted. It's a kind of paradox that I had, I was given a huge amount of confidence
[13:31.200 -> 13:35.680] through that work and at the same time there was a kind of underlying sense of insecurity that came
[13:35.680 -> 13:39.680] with it. Because I spent all my time, I know you're a parent now Damien, you've got kids, I spend all
[13:39.680 -> 13:45.800] my time saying to Flo and Seb, my little kids, hey, external validation counts for absolutely zero, okay?
[13:45.800 -> 13:47.600] Listen, it's about you loving yourself.
[13:47.600 -> 13:48.960] Don't worry about what other people think.
[13:48.960 -> 13:51.280] And then there you are at a kind of really
[13:51.280 -> 13:53.160] quite vulnerable age, I think, as a teenager,
[13:53.160 -> 13:57.000] suddenly having to go and request external validation
[13:57.000 -> 14:00.000] to be liked and to be hired and to be used.
[14:00.000 -> 14:03.640] How did you sort of equip yourself with the armor,
[14:03.640 -> 14:05.800] if you like, to deal with the rejection moments?
[14:05.800 -> 14:09.760] What was it? Did you do a bit of self-talk and think about it quite deeply about it?
[14:09.760 -> 14:11.000] Did you speak to other people?
[14:11.160 -> 14:18.320] I think in a way, the fact that I was never modelling 100 percent, I never gave it my 100 percent.
[14:18.360 -> 14:21.680] It was not in terms of time, not in terms of energy.
[14:21.880 -> 14:27.680] It was always something that was part time as a kind of sideline to other stuff I was doing. So, and then I went back to
[14:27.680 -> 14:32.120] university, I started acting quite young, then I started businesses. My point is I
[14:32.120 -> 14:36.480] always had other things going on and I think that helped a lot because it meant
[14:36.480 -> 14:42.380] that my reality and my kind of identity wasn't wholly dependent on my success
[14:42.380 -> 14:46.100] within that industry. It was, you know, that was part obviously of my reality,
[14:46.100 -> 14:47.260] but not all of it.
[14:47.260 -> 14:49.700] But some of the lessons that you would have learned
[14:49.700 -> 14:51.940] at that young adolescent age, Lily,
[14:51.940 -> 14:55.020] have obviously forged you in other careers,
[14:55.020 -> 14:56.900] whether that's going to Cambridge University
[14:56.900 -> 14:59.700] to continue your studies, or whether it's in films,
[14:59.700 -> 15:02.260] or the businesses that you've set up.
[15:02.260 -> 15:04.380] What would you say was the most valuable lesson
[15:04.380 -> 15:05.200] that you took from that period of your life that you've set up, what would you say was the most valuable lesson that you took from
[15:05.200 -> 15:11.440] that period of your life that you're still utilizing today? I think what that chapter of my
[15:11.440 -> 15:18.240] life did, you know, beyond the fact that it gave me kind of probably access to people and ideas and
[15:19.200 -> 15:25.680] financial, you know, kind of a financial level of security that was meaningful. I think the big impact it
[15:25.680 -> 15:31.200] had on me was that it made me really look at business. Actually funny enough, I went to a
[15:31.200 -> 15:36.480] dinner last night and met somebody and he was asking what I do and I mentioned I'd just written
[15:36.480 -> 15:40.800] this book. He's like, oh how did you come into writing about the environment? Are you a biologist?
[15:40.800 -> 15:45.360] Are you a scientist? He knew nothing about my background and I was like,
[15:50.800 -> 15:56.480] actually I came into it by being a fashion model, which I knew was a kind of funny answer to give. The reasoning is that like if I hadn't gone into that line of work, I'm not sure I would have taken
[15:56.480 -> 16:01.520] the same lens that I have now on trying to understand our social environmental problems.
[16:01.520 -> 16:05.840] I, by working in fashion, I wanted to look, instead of just,
[16:05.840 -> 16:10.840] you know, ignoring the kind of business work I was doing and working with charities, I
[16:10.840 -> 16:15.560] wanted to look at actually the impact of business and the impact of fashion companies, the impact
[16:15.560 -> 16:21.120] of supply chains, seeing them as examples of, you know, capitalism more broadly and
[16:21.120 -> 16:29.840] all the different companies and products that may exist. So I think that kind of more economic lens is what I weirdly took from that period.
[16:29.840 -> 16:34.000] I think what's interesting about that period as well, though, for you is that I'm sort
[16:34.000 -> 16:36.760] of questioning whether you realize from the people you're hanging around with and the
[16:36.760 -> 16:40.360] things you were seeing that actually you realize pretty much anything is possible.
[16:40.360 -> 16:46.100] You know, I have a sort of different story to you, but I came from a tiny village in Norfolk
[16:46.100 -> 16:48.100] and I always thought there was a secret to success, right?
[16:48.100 -> 16:49.800] People who'd achieved great things and knew something
[16:49.800 -> 16:52.300] that I didn't know, so I'd never get there.
[16:52.300 -> 16:54.300] Then I ended up working in Formula One
[16:54.300 -> 16:56.300] and realised all these successful people
[16:56.300 -> 16:59.100] just went and did it with a great big satchel
[16:59.100 -> 17:00.900] of self-belief on their back,
[17:00.900 -> 17:03.000] which kind of makes me think that's what you did.
[17:03.000 -> 17:04.600] You thought, yeah, I can make a difference.
[17:04.600 -> 17:08.160] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remember getting that insight that anyone can really do
[17:08.160 -> 17:09.280] anything if they really want to?
[17:09.480 -> 17:10.600] Yeah, yeah, totally.
[17:10.600 -> 17:12.020] And I actually kind of miss it now.
[17:12.020 -> 17:13.760] I'm often now I'm 32.
[17:13.840 -> 17:18.080] I'm often like trying to get back to my 18 year old headspace.
[17:18.440 -> 17:18.880] You're right.
[17:18.880 -> 17:22.480] It's a product of, you know, probably multiple things, including a, probably,
[17:22.480 -> 17:28.800] a, you know, a good ounce of luck and success. But I also think that youth brings an
[17:28.800 -> 17:32.960] extraordinary kind of ability to be
[17:32.960 -> 17:37.040] open-minded and, yeah, believe anything is possible. And I was definitely in that
[17:37.040 -> 17:39.600] period of my life a big believer that anything is possible.
[17:39.600 -> 17:43.520] I mean, I set up a company for that reason called impossible.com.
[17:43.520 -> 17:46.480] My university thesis was called Impossible Utopias.
[17:46.480 -> 17:49.680] And it was all about how we maybe limit ourselves
[17:49.680 -> 17:52.980] by predefining what we think is impossible,
[17:52.980 -> 17:55.880] rather than realizing that actually so much is possible
[17:55.880 -> 17:58.160] and that by believing so much is possible,
[17:58.160 -> 17:59.160] we will make it true.
[17:59.160 -> 18:00.000] It will come true.
[18:00.000 -> 18:01.440] It's more likely to come true.
[18:01.440 -> 18:03.160] Well, where did that belief come from though?
[18:03.160 -> 18:06.960] Because like, this is a question that we often explore yn eithaf cyfartal. Ac i llawer o le ddaw'r credd yn dod o, yna? Oherwydd, mae'n cwestiwn rydyn ni'n amlwg
[18:06.960 -> 18:08.960] yn ymweld â'n gwestiwn, Lily,
[18:08.960 -> 18:11.040] o ran, mae eich fframe o
[18:11.040 -> 18:13.040] gysylltiad yn amlwg yn
[18:13.040 -> 18:15.040] ddifrifol fawr iawn o ran
[18:15.040 -> 18:17.040] beth ydych chi'n credu yn gallu.
[18:17.040 -> 18:18.800] Felly roeddem ni'n cael Sir Chris Hoy, y cyclist,
[18:18.800 -> 18:20.080] i ddod i siarad am y syndrome
[18:20.080 -> 18:21.360] o'r Rhyfel Christmas.
[18:21.360 -> 18:22.960] Os ydych chi'n credu eich bod chi'n
[18:22.960 -> 18:24.880] gallu, y diwrnod y gwnaethoch chi ddod o
[18:24.880 -> 18:25.080] nad ydych chi, mae'ch holl systemau credd yn dod o'ch gwmpas. syndrome that if you believe that you're invincible, the day you find out that
[18:25.080 -> 18:29.920] you're not, all your belief systems come tumbling down around you. So I know you
[18:29.920 -> 18:33.720] said that it comes from multiple sources, but would you mind if we explored that a
[18:33.720 -> 18:37.760] little bit more about that belief that anything is possible as opposed to
[18:37.760 -> 18:46.000] anything is impossible? Yeah, I mean I was a teenager and like probably many teenagers trying to
[18:46.000 -> 18:53.280] understand the world and my place in it and I went through I think a bit of a journey in those years
[18:53.920 -> 19:01.040] of like trying to bridge science and spirituality, is basically how I'd put it and having these kind
[19:01.040 -> 19:06.540] of more spiritual instincts intuitively and then getting
[19:06.540 -> 19:10.940] really excited when I started to discover versions of science particularly
[19:10.940 -> 19:14.780] like quantum physics. I mean I'm not an expert just to be clear in quantum
[19:14.780 -> 19:21.540] physics. That was our next conversation. But my layman's understanding
[19:21.540 -> 19:26.160] of quantum physics is that actually the version of reality that most of
[19:26.160 -> 19:31.120] us have been taught in school, that certainly I was taught in school, a quite mechanical Newtonian
[19:31.120 -> 19:37.920] worldview that I would argue the media and our society constantly reiterates to us that, you know,
[19:37.920 -> 19:43.280] cause and effect and everything. There's a kind of no space for what one might call magic, but
[19:43.280 -> 19:50.480] that's actually really outdated. For over 100 years, scientists, particularly in the quantum space, have been showing that actually
[19:50.480 -> 19:57.760] reality functions in a much more mysterious and strange way that we can't really fully grasp yet.
[19:58.320 -> 20:03.840] And I got super excited when I started digging into that research because it sort of intellectually
[20:03.840 -> 20:11.040] backed up by intuitive feelings that maybe, as I said, might be considered more spiritual. And ac rwy'n dechrau ymdrech i'r ymchwil hwnnw, oherwydd mae'n ddod o'r ffordd i fynd i'r ysgol, gan ymdrech fy mod i'n ymdrech i'r ysgol, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n
[20:11.040 -> 20:14.560] ymdrech, y rhan fwyaf o'r sgwrs i'n credu bod yna
[20:14.560 -> 20:18.560] mwy o bethau'n gallu bod yn ymwneud â'n gallu ein bod ni'n ymwneud â'n greddwyr i'w credu,
[20:18.560 -> 20:23.120] ac y byddwn ni'n creu anoddau drwy'r gofyn. Un o'r pethau sydd wedi fy ymdrechu
[20:23.120 -> 20:27.000] pan roeddwn i'n ymwneud â'ch g carrer yw bod yn herio rhai o'r cyfresau
[20:27.000 -> 20:35.000] y mae cymdeithasau yn ei gyrraedd, rwy'n credu, yw i fod yn cyflog. Mae angen i chi fod yn obsesif, mae angen i chi fod yn ymwneud â'ch hunain yn un carrer
[20:35.000 -> 20:46.000] a chael y gwrthwyneb a'r gwyrdd, ac iawn, rydych wedi bod yn cyflog mewn nifer o ddifrif mewn bydau a gyrfaoedd gwahanol, industries and different careers whilst balancing those demands from it. Some of
[20:46.000 -> 20:49.640] it links to your last answer of believing that anything is possible but
[20:49.640 -> 20:55.880] do you believe that it's possible to be multi successful in different industries
[20:55.880 -> 21:00.840] at the same time? That is such, it's even weird you're asking me that because
[21:00.840 -> 21:08.720] I've been asking myself that question so much the last few months. If I'm being hard on myself, I do sometimes feel like I might be a bit of a jack-of-all-trades,
[21:08.720 -> 21:14.320] master of none, but that because of the fact that I've constantly been juggling multiple
[21:14.320 -> 21:20.880] projects and careers in a way, I haven't necessarily focused in a way that makes
[21:20.880 -> 21:26.600] me feel as successful as I'd want to be maybe in one. And that's something I've been questioning for myself recently,
[21:26.600 -> 21:30.600] whether I want to focus on something and be a bit more narrow.
[21:30.600 -> 21:34.400] You've only got a finite amount of time, right, and attention that you can give to anything
[21:34.400 -> 21:37.900] and that projects may suffer if you're trying to do too much at the same time.
[21:37.900 -> 21:41.300] And the flip side of that argument, and this is my own internal debate,
[21:41.300 -> 21:44.800] is that I actually really like the kind of, you know, in the Renaissance,
[21:44.800 -> 21:45.460] the kind of idea of the Renaissance, the kind of idea
[21:45.460 -> 21:47.000] of the Renaissance man or Renaissance woman
[21:47.000 -> 21:49.280] that would have multiple interests.
[21:49.280 -> 21:52.360] I'm not trying to compare myself to Leonardo da Vinci,
[21:52.360 -> 21:56.560] but Leonardo da Vinci was designing helicopters
[21:56.560 -> 21:58.480] and also painting and also writing
[21:58.480 -> 21:59.400] and all these different things.
[21:59.400 -> 22:02.040] And there was an acceptance, I think, in that era
[22:02.040 -> 22:04.760] of how actually different interests
[22:04.760 -> 22:05.760] can complement each other
[22:06.600 -> 22:11.140] And that would be my kind of counter argument that actually my different interests
[22:11.440 -> 22:15.400] Speak to different parts of myself and also in a weird way impacts each other
[22:15.400 -> 22:21.260] So the work I do socially kind of more politically will then maybe impact more artistic projects and vice versa
[22:21.260 -> 22:27.640] So are you happy and content? What's your before I answer that, what's your guys opinion on that? Like do you have an opinion on narrow
[22:27.640 -> 22:31.220] focus versus juggling? The reason why I was going to ask whether you're happy
[22:31.220 -> 22:35.420] and content is because I have come to the conclusion at 42 that the only
[22:35.420 -> 22:39.180] barometer for success is that I'm happy. Yeah. And there was a period where I was
[22:39.180 -> 22:43.940] constantly thinking yeah but I need to be, because I would get, let's say I start
[22:43.940 -> 22:45.240] at zero and I get to four and I'm thinking yeah I'm doing good man I'm at four and then I would go, let's say I start at zero and I get to four,
[22:45.240 -> 22:47.360] and I'm thinking, yeah, I'm doing good, man, I'm at four.
[22:47.360 -> 22:49.040] And then I would go onto social media,
[22:49.040 -> 22:51.000] we can have a conversation about this separately,
[22:51.000 -> 22:52.920] go onto social media, and then I'd see someone else
[22:52.920 -> 22:55.540] at a six and think, oh man, right, shit.
[22:55.540 -> 22:56.680] I try and get there.
[22:56.680 -> 22:58.680] Then as I get there, I see someone else on a nine,
[22:58.680 -> 23:01.300] and then I feel, so I then came to the conclusion
[23:01.300 -> 23:04.200] that as long as I know that I've done my best
[23:04.200 -> 23:05.280] and I'm happy and
[23:08.400 -> 23:13.360] Not dissimilar to you Lily feel I'm doing the right stuff I mean we had a conversation with Johnny Wilkinson recently and he said it with every decision you make don't ask if it's right or
[23:13.360 -> 23:14.600] Wrong just ask yourself
[23:14.600 -> 23:19.760] Is this helpful or unhelpful and I think if I can live a life where I'm asking myself whether it's helpful or unhelpful
[23:20.400 -> 23:22.160] Then I'm happy
[23:22.160 -> 23:26.240] so that leads me back to that question whether whether you are happy and content, because if you
[23:26.240 -> 23:28.720] are, then why does it matter?
[23:28.720 -> 23:31.760] You can do a million things if you're happy and content doing them.
[23:31.760 -> 23:32.760] How are you judging success?
[23:32.760 -> 23:36.560] Yeah, yeah, no, I think it's a very clever way to frame it.
[23:36.560 -> 23:39.600] I mean, my happiness and contentness oscillates.
[23:39.600 -> 23:42.560] I'd say I'm pretty happy, but I think I can be happier.
[23:42.560 -> 23:46.320] And actually I think COVID and the changes that have happened
[23:46.320 -> 23:52.800] to all of us in the last few months for me personally have really made me I think question
[23:52.800 -> 23:58.640] my relationship to work and the fact that I often have in the past taken on so many different
[23:58.640 -> 24:07.800] projects I end up a bit ground into the ground and not happy as a consequence. And I think certainly having a five-year-old kid in my life makes me even more
[24:07.800 -> 24:13.200] mindful of, of my own, um, kind of, uh, need to be more, a bit more
[24:13.200 -> 24:15.160] balanced, uh, with my work-life balance.
[24:15.240 -> 24:19.040] And so, yeah, I'm, I'm hoping to now, and I'm already doing it, like move into a
[24:19.040 -> 24:23.960] chapter where I do say no to more things and try and be a bit more streamlined
[24:24.000 -> 24:45.280] because I completely agree that the best success in life is happiness. It's like one of the hardest, right. dweud no i mwy o bethau ac yn ceisio bod yn fwy cyd-drethiol oherydych chi'n cydnabod bod yna ddifrif o ddiddorol
[24:45.280 -> 24:48.320] o ddweud y byddwch chi'n cymryd rhan o'ch dau a'ch gwaith.
[24:48.320 -> 24:51.280] Efallai dwi'n ddifrifo'r llyfr. Rwy'n credu bod gen i ddifrifo'r llyfr.
[24:51.280 -> 24:53.280] Rwy'n credu bod gen i ddifro o'r gwaith yn dda iawn.
[24:53.280 -> 24:55.280] Rwy'n credu bod gen i ddifro o'r gwaith yn dda iawn.
[24:55.280 -> 24:57.280] Ond weithiau, mae'n mynd allan o'r cyllid.
[24:57.280 -> 24:59.280] Ac yn yr amser byth, rydw i wedi dweud iawn i ddifrifo'r llyfr.
[24:59.280 -> 25:01.280] ac yn yr amser byth, rydw i wedi dweud iawn i ddifro o'r gwaith.
[25:01.280 -> 25:03.280] ac yn yr amser byth, rydw i wedi dweud iawn i ddifro o'r gwaith.
[25:03.280 -> 25:06.820] ac yn yr amser byth, rydw i wedi dweud iawn i ddifro o'r gwaith. ac yn yr amser byth, rydw i wedi dweud iawn i ddifro o'r gwaith. ac yn yr amser byth, rydw i wedi dweud iawn i ddifro o'r gwaith. gotten much better at it, but sometimes it really goes out of kilter. And ever so often I've just said yes to too many different projects and
[25:06.820 -> 25:09.360] they all land at the same time and I get burned out.
[25:09.600 -> 25:12.680] So what advice would you pass on to listeners?
[25:12.760 -> 25:17.000] Like what are your red flags that you would now recognize that that balance
[25:17.000 -> 25:20.840] is getting out of kilter that our listeners could maybe learn from?
[25:21.120 -> 25:24.920] I mean, on a very like pragmatic level, I think time is a
[25:24.920 -> 25:25.120] really good tool for structuring. learn from? I mean on a very like pragmatic level I think time is a really
[25:25.120 -> 25:29.040] good tool for structuring. For me it was like saying oh I'm not going to work on
[25:29.040 -> 25:32.800] weekends and I'm not going to work evenings and these are the hours I'm
[25:32.800 -> 25:35.840] going to work and just of course there'll be some have to be some
[25:35.840 -> 25:40.340] flexibility around that but trying to be more structured I think is important but
[25:40.340 -> 25:43.920] then I think there's a kind of for me there was like a deeper question which
[25:43.920 -> 25:47.440] goes to what Jake was just saying about success which is
[25:47.440 -> 25:50.560] in the past I've been a real workaholic and like where is that coming from?
[25:50.560 -> 25:54.880] Is it actually to make me happy and is it making me happy?
[25:54.880 -> 25:58.240] And I think asking those deeper questions you know what do you need in
[25:58.240 -> 26:00.960] your life in order to be happy? I write a lot in the book about
[26:00.960 -> 26:07.560] voluntary simplicity and that the idea of actually like rather than what my friend James Sussman, who's actually just written a book about
[26:07.560 -> 26:11.040] work would call the melancholy of aspiration, you know, the four to six to
[26:11.040 -> 26:18.120] nine Instagram scenario, like rather than staying on that addiction to, to always
[26:18.120 -> 26:21.520] needing to do better, always needing to have more, always needing kind of a
[26:21.520 -> 26:26.860] better version of one's lifestyle, resisting that and saying, actually, maybe there's, you
[26:26.860 -> 26:29.560] know, there's these few things I do really need to be happy.
[26:29.720 -> 26:32.600] And beyond that, I want to free up my time because time is the
[26:32.600 -> 26:34.400] most important thing we ever have.
[26:34.640 -> 26:38.000] And by getting free time, I'm more likely to spend it in a
[26:38.000 -> 26:39.600] way that will make me happy.
[26:42.080 -> 26:47.480] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns.
[26:47.480 -> 26:53.200] But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B, and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either.
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[27:01.240 -> 27:02.240] audience.
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[27:06.240 -> 27:11.680] All the big wigs, then medium wigs, also small wigs who are on the path to becoming big wigs.
[27:11.680 -> 27:13.760] Okay, that's enough about wigs.
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[27:18.200 -> 27:23.360] So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
[27:23.360 -> 27:24.760] voice in the world?
[27:24.760 -> 27:25.000] Yes, yes it does. ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest voice in the world?
[27:25.000 -> 27:27.000] Yes, yes it does.
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[27:38.000 -> 27:40.000] That's LinkedIn.com slash results.
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[29:35.080 -> 29:40.360] Can we talk about how you deal with external criticism? Because obviously you will have
[29:40.360 -> 29:43.840] had it from a very young age when you really put yourself out there on a pedestal as a
[29:43.840 -> 29:44.840] model.
[29:44.840 -> 29:46.440] No, never. never been criticized.
[29:48.080 -> 29:49.280] Well, let's talk about it then,
[29:49.280 -> 29:51.280] because obviously you have, we all have.
[29:51.280 -> 29:53.920] One of the phrases I try and live with
[29:53.920 -> 29:56.960] is that criticism is the enemy of creativity.
[29:56.960 -> 29:58.720] The number of times I think I'm going to do something
[29:58.720 -> 30:00.080] and the little voice pops in my head and goes,
[30:00.080 -> 30:02.040] ah, what are people going to think of that?
[30:02.040 -> 30:04.760] Now, you would have had exactly these conversations
[30:04.760 -> 30:07.400] because I know that the book that you've just released you had a period where you thought
[30:08.200 -> 30:13.360] Why am I gonna write this? Why am I gonna do this and bring criticism my way yet?
[30:13.360 -> 30:16.040] It's the right thing to do. So how do we
[30:16.760 -> 30:22.040] Create a mindset where it doesn't matter about the criticism. We're still going to be creative and be true to ourselves
[30:22.240 -> 30:26.280] Well, it's interesting that point the point point about the book, because I had actually already
[30:26.280 -> 30:27.760] written it when that voice came in.
[30:27.760 -> 30:31.000] So I'd already spent four years writing the whole thing.
[30:31.000 -> 30:33.080] A lot of work.
[30:33.080 -> 30:37.400] And just literally in like the last, like the last week or two of going to the final
[30:37.400 -> 30:41.360] publication date, I had a real like meltdown about it where I just suddenly thought like,
[30:41.360 -> 30:47.200] oh, I'm gonna probably invite criticism into my life because it's talking about sensitive topics.
[30:47.200 -> 30:48.500] And is it worth it?
[30:48.500 -> 30:50.180] Is it worth bringing that into my life?
[30:50.180 -> 30:51.380] Like, maybe not.
[30:51.380 -> 30:53.800] And I took a few weeks reflecting on it
[30:53.800 -> 30:55.600] and pulled myself out of it,
[30:55.600 -> 30:57.580] mainly because I, in that instance,
[30:57.580 -> 30:59.520] felt like actually the conversation
[30:59.520 -> 31:03.060] that the book is trying to engage in is bigger than me
[31:03.060 -> 31:05.360] and it's more important than whether I'm
[31:05.360 -> 31:09.360] criticized or not, like that's why I did it in the first place and therefore it needs to go out and
[31:09.360 -> 31:13.520] if I'm criticized so be it, I know why I'm putting it into the world. Luckily Touchwood so far
[31:13.520 -> 31:19.680] I haven't been attacked by anyone for writing it so hopefully that was ill-founded. I just
[31:19.680 -> 31:26.080] always do the best I can and on what I'm working on and then it's like out of my hands in a
[31:26.080 -> 31:30.640] way so I kind of have a peace with the fact that I did the best job I could and hopefully
[31:30.640 -> 31:33.320] some people will like it and others might not.
[31:33.320 -> 31:36.480] So you say thankfully I've not had any criticism for the book.
[31:36.480 -> 31:37.480] That I'm aware of.
[31:37.480 -> 31:38.480] That I'm aware of.
[31:38.480 -> 31:39.480] I mean, it's like thrown itself at me.
[31:39.480 -> 31:44.920] Okay, but if you were, if there was criticism and it had thrown itself at you, does that
[31:44.920 -> 31:45.280] matter?
[31:46.320 -> 31:47.840] I mean, it shouldn't matter.
[31:48.100 -> 31:52.480] And I'd like to pretend I'm a superhuman that doesn't get affected by people
[31:52.640 -> 31:55.320] criticizing, and it depends whether it's constructive or not, you know, somebody
[31:55.320 -> 31:59.080] is giving constructive criticism that feels valid and I can learn from it.
[31:59.080 -> 32:00.240] I'm totally open to that.
[32:00.680 -> 32:03.560] Sometimes a few times in the past, I've had people.
[32:04.160 -> 32:09.080] I don't want to sound victim-y by saying attack me, but almost kind of attack me in a mean-spirited way.
[32:09.120 -> 32:10.560] And that feels really unhelpful.
[32:10.560 -> 32:13.120] It feels like, reminds me of being like bullied in school or something.
[32:13.160 -> 32:18.200] It doesn't feel constructive and doesn't feel like it brings positive, constructive
[32:18.200 -> 32:18.960] energy into my life.
[32:18.960 -> 32:24.160] And it feels like it's something I have to, when that has happened, I have to try
[32:24.240 -> 32:25.360] and almost create my own boundaries around. something I have to, when that has happened, I have to try and
[32:30.400 -> 32:35.040] almost create my own boundaries around so it doesn't impact my mental health and therefore my family life and my daughter's way of being, you know, like to try and create a boundary.
[32:35.040 -> 32:36.800] Does it affect your mental health?
[32:36.800 -> 32:40.240] I mean, it's only happened a handful of times, like particularly like nasty
[32:41.840 -> 32:47.520] criticism has thrown itself my way. And yeah, I'd say it's a bit consuming at the time,
[32:47.520 -> 32:49.080] absorbing it and dealing with it.
[32:49.080 -> 32:51.200] It's like dealing with a toxic person in a way, right?
[32:51.200 -> 32:54.600] That you have to like, it's very hard to not be affected,
[32:54.600 -> 32:57.880] but I never let it affect me for too long.
[32:57.880 -> 32:59.240] I just try and like deal with it
[32:59.240 -> 33:01.280] and then create a boundary and move on.
[33:01.280 -> 33:02.320] And do you mind sharing with us
[33:02.320 -> 33:04.200] what the criticism was about?
[33:04.200 -> 33:07.800] There's two examples I can think of, one that was quite publicly well known because it
[33:07.800 -> 33:11.800] got a lot of media controversy at the time, which is a guy who was critical of
[33:11.800 -> 33:15.420] the fact that I had been selected by the Bronte Parsonage Museum to be their
[33:15.420 -> 33:20.120] creative partner and do a kind of commission for them, and he'd written a
[33:20.120 -> 33:27.640] blog post about why he didn't think I was a good candidate, and I wouldn't have even really been aware of his blog post, to be honest.
[33:27.720 -> 33:32.580] Um, had it not for some peculiar reason being picked up by the media and then
[33:32.580 -> 33:35.680] became like, you know, the New York times, the guardian, et cetera, writing
[33:35.680 -> 33:38.840] about it and when it had to, but I felt like I should write a response.
[33:39.160 -> 33:42.340] Didn't upset me that much, but it did take, you know, a week of my life,
[33:42.340 -> 33:45.680] digesting, thinking about writing that response and just
[33:45.680 -> 33:46.680] negotiating.
[33:46.680 -> 33:49.920] And we only have 4,000 weeks that we're alive on average.
[33:49.920 -> 33:56.320] So a week is a decent chunk.
[33:56.320 -> 34:02.120] And then there was another one where I was a group of women criticized a magazine that
[34:02.120 -> 34:05.920] I was associated with for the way it was positioning feminism.
[34:05.920 -> 34:09.520] And it could have been a constructive conversation, it could have been like a constructive
[34:09.520 -> 34:14.880] conversation where I might have learned something etc. But it was presented in a way that felt,
[34:15.520 -> 34:20.080] that was really just like not constructive at all, it just felt like they were just having a go.
[34:20.080 -> 34:22.640] Paul So there's the Aristotle quote,
[34:22.640 -> 34:28.800] the famous Aristotle quote, criticism is something we can easily avoid by saying nothing, doing nothing,
[34:28.800 -> 34:32.600] and being nothing. So those are your two choices, Lily, basically.
[34:32.600 -> 34:33.100] Yeah.
[34:33.100 -> 34:34.400] Which one appeals?
[34:34.400 -> 34:40.000] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think criticism is all bad, you know, and that's
[34:40.000 -> 34:42.600] kind of what I was also trying to say. I think there's actually a lot of space for
[34:42.600 -> 34:46.020] constructive criticism. Of course I'm not perfect,
[34:46.020 -> 34:47.640] and of course I'm always learning,
[34:47.640 -> 34:50.320] and I'm always open to hearing other points of view
[34:50.320 -> 34:53.460] and where people disagree maybe with choices that I've made
[34:53.460 -> 34:55.000] or things I've said.
[34:55.000 -> 34:57.620] If it's done in a spirit that feels generous
[34:57.620 -> 35:00.740] and open and constructive, I really welcome that.
[35:00.740 -> 35:02.640] But our culture is not always kind
[35:02.640 -> 35:04.900] in the way it delivers criticism.
[35:04.900 -> 35:08.100] Why is that, Damien? Why can't we just allow people to be in their own
[35:08.100 -> 35:13.380] space with their own voice and their own path? And just if we don't agree, we
[35:13.380 -> 35:16.900] don't agree. We'd have to tell the world and that person that we don't agree or
[35:16.920 -> 35:20.340] the fact that the person that wrote the blog post felt compelled to have an
[35:20.340 -> 35:24.340] opinion strong enough to write an entire article and then members of the media
[35:24.340 -> 35:27.800] felt strong enough about the article to report it in mainstream media
[35:27.800 -> 35:29.960] why can't we just let people be?
[35:29.960 -> 35:33.120] Well I actually heard Lily answer this question on a different
[35:33.120 -> 35:37.720] interview we were talking about before we went on air where she spoke about bad
[35:37.720 -> 35:43.320] news travels a lot faster than good it's stickier people are more attracted to it
[35:43.320 -> 35:46.400] so I think in terms of answering where it's reported it's often because that y bydd pobl yn fwy atrof arno. Felly rwy'n credu, o ran gweithio ar y lle mae'n adroddiad,
[35:46.400 -> 35:52.400] mae'n amlwg oherwydd y math o drafodaeth, y drama, sy'n ein atrofi ni, sy'n ein
[35:52.400 -> 35:56.880] gadael ni allan o'r autopilot. Ond rwy'n credu, un o'r pethau, ac eto, byddwn yn ddiddorol
[35:56.880 -> 36:00.480] o ran Lillyn ar hyn, rwy'n credu, yr hyn rwy'n clywed, yw, dyma un o'r pethau rydyn ni wedi'u gweld
[36:00.480 -> 36:08.800] yn ddiwylliannau cyffredinol pan ydyn ni'n siarad amdano mewn amgylchedd gwahanol, Lillian. Mae pobl yn deimlo cyfrifoldeb ac yn ei agor pan
[36:08.800 -> 36:12.160] yw'n ymwneud â pheisiau, oherwydd gallwch chi newid ymdrechion ac fel y dweud, gallwch chi ddysgu
[36:12.160 -> 36:17.120] onon nhw, ond pan ddewis ychydig, ac mae'n ymwneud â'r elementau unigol y gallwch chi ddim
[36:17.120 -> 36:21.440] cynllunio, dyna lle mae'n rhannu ein gysylltiadau a dechrau teimlo llawer mwy o
[36:21.440 -> 36:25.920] ddysgwyr i ni. Ac hefyd, rwy'n siŵr, mae'n mynd yn ôl i'r pethau o'r blant, and starts to feel a lot more wound into us. And also I'm sure it goes back to childhood stuff, right?
[36:25.920 -> 36:28.760] Like I said, they felt a bit like bullying
[36:28.760 -> 36:30.540] and I don't want to go deep into it,
[36:30.540 -> 36:31.700] but I was bullied as a child.
[36:31.700 -> 36:34.260] And so I think, and I'm sure everyone has their own version
[36:34.260 -> 36:37.000] of their childhood issues or traumas
[36:37.000 -> 36:40.340] that sometimes these adult experiences can re-trigger.
[36:40.340 -> 36:42.340] And I think that also plays a part
[36:42.340 -> 36:44.420] in why it can be hard to deal with it.
[36:44.420 -> 36:47.280] I also think social media has been fairly unhelpful on this point.
[36:47.280 -> 36:49.640] Not to me personally, because I don't really use it very much.
[36:49.640 -> 36:53.120] And actually, the people who follow me on Instagram all seem to be very lovely and sweet.
[36:53.120 -> 36:57.960] But I think in general, it's created a lot of polarization in our culture.
[36:57.960 -> 37:00.200] And I think that polarization is not very helpful.
[37:00.200 -> 37:07.080] And the book I've written and also done a podcast connected to the book and I'm
[37:07.080 -> 37:11.840] specifically trying on every episode of that podcast in a similar format to the way I did
[37:11.840 -> 37:17.560] in the book to invite guests who have different perspectives on a particular topic or issue
[37:17.560 -> 37:22.200] because under the framework of this belief in the need for discourse and the belief in
[37:22.200 -> 37:27.920] the need for debate and conversation that issues are complex and that it's only through conversation and
[37:27.920 -> 37:30.360] listening to each other that we'll find solutions.
[37:31.200 -> 37:33.040] Trying to fight against polarization, really.
[37:33.360 -> 37:37.520] There's a really nice quote that's attributed usually to Voltaire, but actually
[37:37.520 -> 37:42.120] it was a woman apparently called Evelyn Beatrice Hall who said, I disapprove of
[37:42.120 -> 37:50.400] what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. And I quite like that as a maxim that we should encourage listening more.
[37:50.400 -> 37:56.280] We've gone the total opposite way. What we love to do, the whole cancel culture is stopping
[37:56.280 -> 38:00.320] people who have a different opinion or have a different voice, not even wanting to hear
[38:00.320 -> 38:06.000] it. And I think I agree with you, that is so unhealthy, isn't it? Not to have debate in our lives.
[38:06.040 -> 38:08.040] And I don't think the only reason for that is social media.
[38:08.040 -> 38:10.920] But I think that the way social media is designed in terms of
[38:10.960 -> 38:14.920] filter bubbles, that you, you see your people who are like you,
[38:15.440 -> 38:18.040] the algorithms know what you like and show you more and more
[38:18.040 -> 38:20.560] posts that you're likely to like, some of the content you'll
[38:20.560 -> 38:24.080] see is not even true. So I think that has created a kind of
[38:24.120 -> 38:37.840] perfect storm for polarisation, for people feeling very y byddwch chi'n gweld y cynnydd, nid yw'n iawn. Felly rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi creu ffyrdd perffect ar gyfer y polarisio, i bobl sy'n teimlo'n ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod in their position because they're seeing their position being repeated to them again and again and again in different ways in their feeds and not seeing the other side.
[38:37.840 -> 38:49.280] Gallaf fy nghymryd, mae rhywbeth sy'n fy ymdrechu wir yn y rhchydig o'ch gynrychiadau y mae gennych, Lily, lle rydych chi wedi sôn am un o'r ffyrdd rydych chi wedi'i ddelio gyda'r anodd,
[38:49.280 -> 38:54.160] neu rydych chi wedi datblygu'r gyrfa, yw'r sylwad o'r rhan fwyaf o'r gynllun.
[39:06.640 -> 39:10.560] Felly pan roeddech chi'n siarad am y llyfr hwnnw a'r gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun o'ch gynllun you said, well, this conversation is bigger than me. You know, when some of the challenges that you described in, in, in other incarnations of your career, what would you describe your mission to be?
[39:10.640 -> 39:11.920] What are you here to do?
[39:12.280 -> 39:13.800] I like incarnations of your career.
[39:13.880 -> 39:14.840] I like that as a phrase.
[39:15.000 -> 39:15.800] I won't use that again.
[39:16.480 -> 39:19.720] Probably increasingly I've realized my mission should be happiness, you know,
[39:19.720 -> 39:21.480] because that is the most important thing.
[39:21.840 -> 39:26.080] And I don't think that it's necessarily bad also for the planet.
[39:26.080 -> 39:30.080] I think that everybody was truly looking for happiness in terms of asking like,
[39:30.080 -> 39:32.160] what job do I really enjoy doing?
[39:32.160 -> 39:34.040] How do I really enjoy spending my time?
[39:34.360 -> 39:39.360] Um, what values in life are really important to me and answering those
[39:39.360 -> 39:43.280] questions, I feel like is the most important thing to do, because it means
[39:43.280 -> 39:45.280] that your own life will be more meaningful.
[39:45.820 -> 39:49.820] And I think that would also in a funny way, change the world because we
[39:49.820 -> 39:53.400] wouldn't be doing what we think we should be doing because society tells us.
[39:53.400 -> 39:55.560] So we'd be listening more to our hearts.
[39:55.560 -> 39:56.960] I guess that sounds very cheesy.
[39:57.120 -> 39:59.120] I think if you'd asked me 10 years ago, it probably would have been much
[39:59.120 -> 40:04.000] more external and ambitious, but I think it's becoming more a realization of,
[40:04.200 -> 40:06.800] um, what, what do I really enjoy doing?
[40:06.800 -> 40:09.160] And I actually think for me personally, it's a lot about creativity.
[40:09.160 -> 40:11.440] I enjoy being creative and making time for that.
[40:11.560 -> 40:15.160] I think the important thing for people listening, though, is that it's all about a journey, isn't it?
[40:15.160 -> 40:23.560] There would have been a period, Lily, where you felt like you didn't want to model for a certain brand because it wasn't right, but you didn't say anything because you were young and there was other pressures.
[40:23.560 -> 40:25.320] And then you got to the point where you maybe spoke about it and voiced it to other people, but didn't say anything because you were young and there was other pressures and and then you got to the point where you maybe
[40:25.320 -> 40:29.000] spoke about it and voiced it to other people but didn't necessarily act on it
[40:29.000 -> 40:32.360] then you get to the point where you act on it despite loads of outside forces
[40:32.360 -> 40:35.600] telling you this is crazy and it leaves you right to this point today where
[40:35.600 -> 40:39.400] you're running impossible.com you're writing books you're creating podcasts
[40:39.400 -> 40:43.400] you're having conversations like this with us and it is all about the fact
[40:43.400 -> 40:51.560] that you finally reach that point where it's about your story, your own happiness, and it's not about the external
[40:51.560 -> 40:55.440] forces. For people that haven't been through that journey, though, it's a hard one. It's
[40:55.440 -> 40:58.360] hard one for them just to switch that on, I think, isn't it? Just from listening to
[40:58.360 -> 40:59.360] this conversation.
[40:59.360 -> 41:04.520] Yeah, totally. And it's also a journey I'm still on, you know, I'm not like, I'm not
[41:04.520 -> 41:05.720] where I necessarily want to be in terms of what I outlined, you know, I, I'm still on, you know, I'm not like, I'm not where I necessarily want
[41:05.720 -> 41:11.000] to be in terms of what I outlined, you know, I, I'm still on that journey of, of, of, I
[41:11.000 -> 41:15.080] guess, almost fighting different forces and instincts within myself, you know, then my
[41:15.080 -> 41:18.480] next creative project, of course, I want it to be successful.
[41:18.480 -> 41:21.440] Of course, I want some external validation.
[41:21.440 -> 41:25.040] It's very hard to not have those desires and instincts and I guess
[41:25.040 -> 41:30.640] what I'm trying to say is I'm almost working on myself to realize that the
[41:30.640 -> 41:35.760] external validation is secondary. So when you find yourself maybe going down the
[41:35.760 -> 41:39.440] wrong path, what do you say to yourself to get you back on the right path?
[41:39.440 -> 41:45.120] I find meditation really helpful. I don't do it enough, but I find that
[41:45.120 -> 41:49.040] meditation as a practice is super helpful for me and it definitely
[41:49.040 -> 41:52.720] helps me be on a good path because you become more mindful of your mind and
[41:52.720 -> 41:55.440] what you're thinking. When I'm trying to make a decision I
[41:55.440 -> 42:00.160] often flip a coin. It doesn't mean I necessarily follow what
[42:00.160 -> 42:03.680] the coin says, but I quite like it as a way to see my
[42:03.680 -> 42:05.440] own reaction and often it will, I'll flip the coin, I I quite like it as a way to see my own reaction and often it will,
[42:06.000 -> 42:09.840] I'll flip the coin I'll be like oh yeah that is that is my instinct that is the decision like
[42:10.640 -> 42:16.240] I felt or not. How how much do you trust yourself how much do you trust your decisions these days?
[42:16.960 -> 42:20.160] Probably not enough I'm quite an indecisive person that's something I struggle with
[42:21.840 -> 42:25.760] and I think I've gotten better at making decisions, but I still spend too
[42:25.760 -> 42:30.160] much energy probably doubting choices and trying to decide. What about you guys?
[42:30.160 -> 42:37.120] I read a book a while ago from the CEO of Disney and he said in his mind his
[42:37.120 -> 42:43.480] superpower is doing what he believes is right with zero doubt about whether it's
[42:43.480 -> 42:48.920] the right decision and he finds that that is what that is what works for him and I've tried I've tried
[42:48.920 -> 42:53.360] to do the same thing. It's not it's not easy but that's my that's my plan.
[42:53.360 -> 42:58.320] Damien? My strategy has been and this has been honed over lots of mistakes has
[42:58.320 -> 43:03.600] been I have almost like three gatekeepers in my head that I ask myself
[43:03.600 -> 43:05.360] we're going to ask you a question in a minute fel tri ymgyrchion yn fy mhobol, rydw i wedi gofyn i mi, rydyn ni'n mynd i'ch gwestiwn yn y
[43:05.360 -> 43:11.280] munud yn ystod ymdrechion ar ymdrechion, felly, fy enw i, dweud yn ddiogel, gwneud yn siŵr bod yn mhwysig
[43:11.280 -> 43:17.600] ac yn hyrwyddo, ac yna'r trid, yw, gallwch chi wneud gwahaniaeth cyffredin? Ac yr hyn rydw i wedi'i ddod o'r
[43:17.600 -> 43:22.240] blynyddoedd yw pan ddim y tri ymgyrchion hynny, rydw i wedi bod yn ymwneud â'r rhain, efallai, yn ddiogel
[43:22.240 -> 43:46.320] neu wedi bod yn ddigon ddifrif mewn gwaith rydw i wedi'i wneud. Felly, eto, mae'n ddifrifol o'r ffordd i'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r r To you, I was thinking about the Disney example, the, uh, my indecisiveness is probably also
[43:46.320 -> 43:50.640] a consequence of the fact that I always try and see different perspectives.
[43:50.640 -> 43:56.440] I almost caution against me feeling a hundred percent sure of an opinion or a decision because
[43:56.440 -> 44:00.000] I'm always open-minded to the nuance or debates.
[44:00.000 -> 44:04.880] It's probably a bad side effect of, um, of trying to be open-minded.
[44:04.880 -> 44:07.360] So how important is taking counsel for you?
[44:07.360 -> 44:10.360] And when you want people's opinions, where do you turn?
[44:10.360 -> 44:12.520] I definitely take a lot of counsel.
[44:12.520 -> 44:14.360] My sister, first and foremost,
[44:14.360 -> 44:18.760] who's just endlessly generous with her time
[44:18.760 -> 44:20.360] in giving me advice.
[44:20.360 -> 44:21.840] My mum often gives me advice.
[44:21.840 -> 44:24.760] And then I've got kind of group of close friends
[44:24.760 -> 44:26.400] and family that I turn to.
[44:26.400 -> 44:32.120] I guess probably like less than 10 people who are like close family and friends who I would go to for advice.
[44:32.120 -> 44:37.000] And what's been the most valuable piece of advice that you've ever received from that group?
[44:37.000 -> 44:41.400] You know what is a funny answer? My daughter started giving me advice, she's only five.
[44:41.400 -> 44:45.160] She'll start going, don't worry mum, worrying is silly, don't
[44:45.160 -> 44:49.560] worry. And I've started really tuning into all of that. And I'm just like, wow, you're
[44:49.560 -> 44:50.560] really right.
[44:50.560 -> 44:57.200] But there is some magic though, in the innocence of children, the way that they approach stuff.
[44:57.200 -> 45:00.800] I think that is not a bad place to go for advice, you know.
[45:00.800 -> 45:05.640] 100%. I mean, if we're going back to the idea that success is happiness,
[45:05.640 -> 45:11.320] I mean, five-year-olds, I think, have to do a much better job in general of being incredibly
[45:11.320 -> 45:15.120] happy and incredibly present, at least my daughter does. And so I think I have a huge
[45:15.120 -> 45:17.760] amount to learn from that, for sure.
[45:17.760 -> 45:22.840] I love that one. Can we just talk a little bit actually about your daughter, because
[45:22.840 -> 45:27.560] we've spoken about you want people to follow their intuition we've spoken about how you want them to find the
[45:27.560 -> 45:31.700] magic in the world yet at the same time all three of us having this conversation
[45:31.700 -> 45:35.580] know that day comes where you realize the world is not perhaps all it seems
[45:35.580 -> 45:39.440] and there is poison out there and some negativity and you do have to be braced
[45:39.440 -> 45:44.060] against it so how are you bringing up a child who looks for the magic and
[45:44.060 -> 45:47.920] follows their intuition and is free but cautioning against?
[45:48.280 -> 45:53.700] What they might find in the future. How do you get that balance? Right? I don't I don't have a kind of conscious
[45:55.160 -> 46:01.880] Strategy for it. So I just kind of doing it based on I guess instinct at the time, but I
[46:03.120 -> 46:09.680] would encourage her natural state of curiosity and in a way
[46:09.680 -> 46:15.240] her understanding, I would assume that anything is possible because when you're that young,
[46:15.240 -> 46:19.520] your possibilities haven't been defined yet and you know, Santa Claus can be real or fairies
[46:19.520 -> 46:22.680] can be real and you know, anything in a way is possible.
[46:22.680 -> 46:29.040] So allowing for the magic I think is really important. I think we have a lot to learn from that mind state. And then also being
[46:29.040 -> 46:34.800] sensible about risk, right? And talking about, not giving her like fear narratives of the future at
[46:34.800 -> 46:40.400] all, but just, you know, giving her sensible understandings of risk, whether it's don't run
[46:40.400 -> 46:46.800] across the road or spelling out certain dangers that I could see
[46:44.720 -> 46:48.160] might be in her horizon
[46:46.800 -> 46:49.600] now but I'm definitely not like
[46:48.160 -> 46:51.200] anticipating future
[46:49.600 -> 46:52.640] negativity scenarios for her because I
[46:51.200 -> 46:54.560] don't think that's very helpful at all.
[46:52.640 -> 46:55.600] I think it's a Kyle Gilbrom quote where
[46:54.560 -> 46:57.520] he says
[46:55.600 -> 46:58.880] children are the arrows that your bow
[46:57.520 -> 47:02.480] sets forth
[46:58.880 -> 47:05.680] and it's this idea that you don't own them
[47:02.480 -> 47:07.440] and it's not right necessarily to like try and turn them into mini versions of
[47:07.440 -> 47:10.800] yourself and project all of your your ideas of
[47:10.800 -> 47:14.560] right and wrong and how the world works onto them and I
[47:14.560 -> 47:19.760] think that's the balancing act that I try to do is to give guidance whilst
[47:19.760 -> 47:24.800] really respecting that my daughter is a unique human being
[47:24.800 -> 47:27.200] separate to myself that it's important
[47:27.200 -> 47:31.700] that she has her own space to go her own way and make choices that are potentially might
[47:31.700 -> 47:33.240] be different to my choices.
[47:33.240 -> 47:40.900] I'm for the most part vegan and I try to explain to her why I make those choices and teach
[47:40.900 -> 47:47.600] her a little bit in not a way, about the circumstances around different types
[47:47.680 -> 47:51.080] of meat production, without 100% imposing
[47:51.080 -> 47:52.480] what she can and can't eat on her,
[47:52.480 -> 47:53.880] and giving her the space and freedom
[47:53.880 -> 47:56.800] to make her own choices in that landscape.
[47:56.800 -> 47:58.760] Is that not an echo of what your mum did with you,
[47:58.760 -> 48:01.680] of letting you go down a pathway of a world
[48:01.680 -> 48:03.160] that maybe she didn't understand,
[48:03.160 -> 48:05.300] but allowing you to, uh, to go
[48:05.300 -> 48:06.300] in and explore.
[48:06.300 -> 48:11.100] Yeah, I think so actually. Yeah. She's, she gives me her opinions strongly and always
[48:11.100 -> 48:15.420] gave them growing up, but she also, and tells me when she disagrees with stuff, but also
[48:15.420 -> 48:19.060] does give me space I think to, to find my own way.
[48:19.060 -> 48:21.260] Have you heard of the phrase helicopter parenting?
[48:21.260 -> 48:26.480] Yeah, I have. That's like when you kind of micromanage, right? Like you're always on top of them.
[48:26.480 -> 48:27.320] Yeah, yeah.
[48:27.320 -> 48:28.440] Hover around them.
[48:28.440 -> 48:30.840] How are you with allowing your daughter,
[48:30.840 -> 48:32.920] she's young, but allowing failure
[48:32.920 -> 48:34.480] to try and build resilience.
[48:34.480 -> 48:36.800] I have a real bee in my bonnet about the fact
[48:36.800 -> 48:39.520] we're not creating young people that understand
[48:39.520 -> 48:41.020] failure is a good thing.
[48:41.020 -> 48:42.160] They have no resilience.
[48:42.160 -> 48:43.780] They start out on their own path.
[48:43.780 -> 48:45.520] They struggle and give up
[48:45.520 -> 48:46.520] because they've never learned
[48:46.520 -> 48:49.400] that it's okay to struggle and carry on.
[48:49.400 -> 48:51.160] I mean, she's five.
[48:51.160 -> 48:52.280] It's not even like,
[48:52.280 -> 48:53.800] it's not even part of our rhetoric,
[48:53.800 -> 48:55.080] success or failure.
[48:55.080 -> 48:57.200] She's just playing, you know?
[48:57.200 -> 48:58.960] But do you allow, if you play a game,
[48:58.960 -> 49:00.520] do you allow her to lose to you
[49:00.520 -> 49:02.320] or does she always win?
[49:02.320 -> 49:03.160] It's really like,
[49:03.160 -> 49:05.160] we don't actually play many win-loosy games.
[49:05.480 -> 49:08.560] We'll like do like chasing down the street and who wins.
[49:09.120 -> 49:13.280] Um, and I don't over, I don't overthink it, you know, like probably more often
[49:13.280 -> 49:17.680] than not, we'll let her win because it's more fun, but it's not like she has to win.
[49:17.680 -> 49:19.720] I think she's quite, she's quite easygoing about it.
[49:19.720 -> 49:22.480] So yeah, it hasn't, it's a success failure thing.
[49:22.480 -> 49:23.520] Hasn't really been an issue.
[49:24.080 -> 49:25.200] And how are you with failure?
[49:25.200 -> 49:27.520] Oh my God, I used to be terrible with failure.
[49:27.520 -> 49:31.920] I used to be like really, really, really not able to deal with it because it was, it felt
[49:31.920 -> 49:34.560] like my whole sense of self was being undermined.
[49:34.560 -> 49:39.040] And then actually, interestingly realized that success is happiness, as we're saying,
[49:39.040 -> 49:41.760] and that you learn through failure and you know, the kind of Beckett line, fail, fail
[49:41.760 -> 49:44.600] again, fail better is, is really important.
[49:44.600 -> 49:48.600] That often if you, especially if you're trying to do something ambitious, which I have tried
[49:48.600 -> 49:53.760] to do in the past, often you will meet failure and you have to just keep trying because it's
[49:53.760 -> 49:58.320] only by trying again that you'll learn and at some point maybe have a sense of success.
[49:58.320 -> 50:02.720] The challenge for that Damien, when we talk about fail early, fail often, fail forwards,
[50:02.720 -> 50:05.840] the only way to learn that is to fail. And when you
[50:05.840 -> 50:08.640] start failing and you haven't learned it, that's when it gets very difficult.
[50:08.640 -> 50:13.040] Well, there's that lovely saying that we've repeated on the podcast of a mistake is only
[50:13.040 -> 50:18.480] a mistake until you repeat it. So you try something, if it doesn't work out, if you do it
[50:18.480 -> 50:24.240] again and it doesn't work out, then it's a mistake. But until that, if you've taken it and learning
[50:24.240 -> 50:28.360] and being a bit smarter next time, by definition, it can't be a mistake. But until that, if you, if you taking it and learning and being a bit smarter next time, by definition, it can't be a mistake.
[50:28.680 -> 50:32.240] Yeah. Although I agree with you and I like that quote, but the Samuel Beckett
[50:32.240 -> 50:35.120] fail, fail again, fail better. We'd say that we've got to just keep making
[50:35.120 -> 50:38.520] mistakes and every time maybe the mistakes will get slightly, slightly
[50:38.520 -> 50:38.920] smaller.
[50:39.400 -> 50:43.680] Yeah. And that's the idea though, that it's a constant learning process. As
[50:43.680 -> 50:46.400] long as you reflect on it rather than deflect it.
[50:46.400 -> 50:52.000] That's where, again, you're coming back and you're honing it until eventually you get there.
[50:52.000 -> 50:57.400] Can we go back to the question about your tribe? How you recruit people, what you want the people around you to be like,
[50:57.400 -> 51:05.520] and I'm also very interested in how quickly you will cut people off, remove them, when they're not the right people for you,
[51:05.520 -> 51:07.760] because that can bring an unnecessary poison
[51:07.760 -> 51:08.600] into one's life.
[51:08.600 -> 51:09.440] And when you say recruit,
[51:09.440 -> 51:11.280] you don't mean from a business perspective, you mean?
[51:11.280 -> 51:14.320] No, I mean, like, yeah.
[51:14.320 -> 51:16.480] How do you decide who you want in your world?
[51:16.480 -> 51:18.840] There's only so many seats on the bus is one of my phrases,
[51:18.840 -> 51:20.360] and, you know, people come and go.
[51:20.360 -> 51:21.480] Yep, yeah, yeah.
[51:22.440 -> 51:24.780] I mean, I find it's a fairly organic process.
[51:27.000 -> 51:47.000] It kind of happens naturally, right? I mean, I'm lucky that I spent most of my adult life in very social circles because I work in lots of different industries and I'm quite, I don't know, connected to like social net, social scenes and quite diverse groups of people. I love meeting interesting people and having some conversations. And it happens quite organically that if I meet somebody and find them
[51:47.000 -> 51:52.000] interesting, I will then want a bit more of them in my life.
[51:52.000 -> 51:56.000] And it will happen organically that they'll drop out or they'll stay in my life.
[51:56.000 -> 51:58.000] You know, it's kind of, I don't overthink it.
[51:58.000 -> 52:01.000] I think there's kind of a core group of people who are like some of my best
[52:01.000 -> 52:06.240] friends that have been best friends for a very long time, um, that have, you know,
[52:06.240 -> 52:10.240] seats at the front of the bus. But even sometimes,
[52:10.240 -> 52:12.320] and it's sad when it happens, but even sometimes I've found, you know,
[52:12.320 -> 52:14.880] that some of my best friends shift out of my life in the past.
[52:14.880 -> 52:18.000] And so I think I have to kind of accept and understand.
[52:18.400 -> 52:20.320] We go through different phases, I think. Um,
[52:20.760 -> 52:24.960] what do I look for in my close tribe? I'd say people who have fun,
[52:24.960 -> 52:25.960] have a sense of humor,
[52:25.960 -> 52:30.200] is really important, and honest and kind,
[52:30.200 -> 52:33.120] just grounded, real people who I know have my back
[52:33.120 -> 52:34.920] and I can have a laugh with.
[52:34.920 -> 52:37.920] And if I'm worried about an issue, I can call
[52:37.920 -> 52:40.920] and vice versa and have honest advice,
[52:40.920 -> 52:42.880] you know, coming from a good place.
[52:42.880 -> 52:44.640] That I think is the most important.
[52:44.640 -> 52:48.160] And what is the kind of behavior that you would make a swift decision about removing
[52:48.160 -> 52:49.200] that person from the bus?
[52:52.080 -> 52:58.240] I think just sometimes you, you, like, if you feel like a relationship is not giving
[52:58.240 -> 53:01.920] you anything, you know, if it's maybe sometimes taking more than it's giving, that's when
[53:01.920 -> 53:07.400] I've been like, actually, I don't need this energy in my life. And I think particularly when I had my daughter
[53:07.400 -> 53:11.660] and I became much more, I guess, guarded with my time
[53:11.660 -> 53:13.920] because my time became very precious time
[53:13.920 -> 53:14.880] I'm not spending with her,
[53:14.880 -> 53:17.040] with other people I'm not spending with her.
[53:17.040 -> 53:18.840] I think that's when I started to,
[53:18.840 -> 53:20.640] I saw some people drop out of my life
[53:20.640 -> 53:24.240] who I felt were just maybe taking more
[53:24.240 -> 53:25.320] than they were giving energetically,
[53:25.320 -> 53:29.920] if that makes sense. What about you? Who do you kick off your bust?
[53:29.920 -> 53:37.120] My very simple tool is, are they a fountain or a drain? And if they're a drain, I will
[53:37.120 -> 53:41.920] remove them pretty quickly. And I think as I've got older, I've sort of come to the understanding,
[53:41.920 -> 53:49.440] because when I was younger, I thought if someone was your friend They had to be your friend forever. Yeah, it was like a really bad thing to drift apart or to not make an effort
[53:49.840 -> 53:52.940] I'm quite fatalistic. So I think people come into your lives for a reason
[53:52.940 -> 53:54.800] I think they probably drift out for a reason as well
[53:54.800 -> 53:58.400] And when they come in you allow them in and you spend a great time together
[53:58.400 -> 54:03.800] You don't think too much about it. But then you also have to do the same thing when people slowly drift out and you just
[54:04.960 -> 54:08.800] it but then you also have to do the same thing when people slowly drift out and you just thank someone somewhere for the fact that they came in at a certain time and gave you
[54:08.800 -> 54:12.960] something and then you don't mourn too heavily the fact they're not around any longer.
[54:12.960 -> 54:16.680] I totally feel that way that yeah like I used to have a more childish sense of like best
[54:16.680 -> 54:21.040] friends forever and there are some friends in my life I hope are my best friends forever
[54:21.040 -> 54:27.600] that I have very meaningful relationships with but I think I have made more peace with the idea that you go through chapters and that just because you're only close to somebody fy ffrindiau mwyaf, sydd gyda gydag ymddiriedolaethau sylfaenol iawn, ond rwy'n credu rydw i wedi gwneud mwy o ystyried o'r sylfaen y byddwch chi'n mynd trwy ffyrddau a
[54:27.600 -> 54:30.480] y byddwch chi unig yn dda i rywun am ychydig mlynedd, ac yna ydych chi'n
[54:30.480 -> 54:33.040] ymdrechio'n fawr, ac yna ydych chi'n gweld nhw mewn cyfansoddau. Nid yw'n
[54:33.040 -> 54:35.440] yn ymdrechion y gwahaniaeth rydych chi wedi'i gael ar y pryd.
[54:35.440 -> 54:38.960] Ar ein cyfrifiad podcast o'r cynhawn, rydyn ni wedi gydag Lily
[54:38.960 -> 54:42.560] a chweithiwr Ddutch, Robin Van Persie, a ddweud yn eithaf
[54:42.560 -> 54:45.760] gwaith, o ran sut roedd y plant hwnnw wedi cael y syniad o'i ffrindiau
[54:45.760 -> 54:50.960] oedd yn mynd i fod gyda nhw ar y ffordd i ffyrdd, ac fe ddeunodd bod rhai bobl gyda
[54:50.960 -> 54:56.640] chi ar gyfer seisoedd, rhesymau, ac rhai bydd yn ymwneud â nhw am bywydau, ac roedd yn eithaf elegant
[54:56.640 -> 55:02.000] gyda'r ffordd y sgwrsodd â rhai o'i ffrindiau a dweud, d'i gyd, rwy'n chi'n chi'n chi ac rwy'n byth yn chi'n chi'n chi,
[55:02.000 -> 55:07.000] ond dyma'r diwedd o'r ffordd gyda nhw nawr, rhaid i chi mynd i'ch dyrfa. I love you and I'll always love you, but this is the end of the journey together now. You have to go your direction, I go mine."
[55:07.000 -> 55:11.000] Wow. That's quite moving, like breaking up with friends.
[55:11.000 -> 55:25.740] Yeah, I think there were circumstances that had caused it, but he was really love interesting people who have maybe like a different
[55:25.740 -> 55:27.340] worldview that I can learn from.
[55:27.640 -> 55:33.380] I try and keep friends that have maybe different political instincts to mine,
[55:33.820 -> 55:36.660] similar to the kind of ethos of the podcast and book, you know, that I like
[55:36.660 -> 55:40.880] to not just have people who are identical to myself and have a kind of
[55:40.880 -> 55:43.700] diversity of thinking around me.
[55:44.100 -> 55:46.800] And I'm also stay really open to meeting new people.
[55:46.800 -> 55:49.440] So I moved house last year
[55:49.440 -> 55:52.560] and I made really good new friends in that area.
[55:52.560 -> 55:54.600] And I just moved again.
[55:54.600 -> 55:57.880] And I'm already like starting to like see,
[55:57.880 -> 55:59.680] who are my friends of friends
[55:59.680 -> 56:02.120] that I might connect with in this area.
[56:02.120 -> 56:04.880] And I like keeping that same openness
[56:04.880 -> 56:05.000] that I had in my twenties of being open to new people. y gallwn ni gysylltu â nhw yn y maes honno. Ac rwy'n hoffi gael yr un agored
[56:05.000 -> 56:08.000] rydw i'n 20au o fod yn agored at bobl newydd.
[56:08.000 -> 56:11.000] Wel, rwy'n credu bod y ddifrifoliad rydych chi'n siarad am yn
[56:11.000 -> 56:14.000] llawer o ffynnydd yn eich llyfr, os gallaf gysylltu â'i.
[56:14.000 -> 56:17.000] Felly, y rhan o bobl rydych chi'n siarad â.
[56:17.000 -> 56:20.000] Rwy'n credu ei fod yn ddiddorol iawn, o'r
[56:20.000 -> 56:23.000] ffordd o Elon Musk, lle rydych chi'n siarad am
[56:23.000 -> 56:46.960] fynnydd fel hynny, i'r rhan o'r fynnydd yng Nghymru, lle rydych chi'n siarad am fyrdd o fyrdd oangos yr hyn y byddwn yn ei chreu.
[56:46.960 -> 56:52.480] Beth ydych chi'n credu y bydd fy nheriaid yn eu creu? Rwy'n credu y bydd rhywbeth ar gyfer ddiddorol, rwy'n credu y bydd rhywbeth ar gyfer
[56:52.480 -> 56:59.200] amgueddfa, ac rwy'n credu y bydd rhywbeth ar gyfer digwyddiad a chyfrifoldeb yn yr hyn rwy'n ymddangos arnoch chi,
[56:59.200 -> 57:02.800] ond rwy'n sylfaenol bod ddim wedi gofyn i chi os byddwch chi'n eu cyfrifoldeb.
[57:02.800 -> 57:05.720] Ie, ie, ie, rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n cael ei gael yn dda iawn, ac rwy'n bydd i ddod o hyd i'r ddiddorol. that I haven't asked you if you'd articulate them. Yeah, I think you got it pretty well.
[57:06.800 -> 57:08.820] And I would also add kindness.
[57:08.820 -> 57:10.920] I think kindness is really important.
[57:10.920 -> 57:12.240] You know how sometimes we feel like
[57:12.240 -> 57:14.560] we can't impact the world, yeah?
[57:14.560 -> 57:16.040] Wouldn't it be great if we said, right,
[57:16.040 -> 57:18.320] all I'm gonna do is spread total happiness
[57:18.320 -> 57:20.320] into the small circle around me
[57:20.320 -> 57:22.160] with the contract that all those other people
[57:22.160 -> 57:24.520] in that circle agree to do it with their circle.
[57:24.520 -> 57:28.000] I'm only gonna make them happy if they sign a contract that they'll make other people happy.
[57:28.000 -> 57:32.000] They'll have to sign it, but they will be in trouble if they don't do it.
[57:32.000 -> 57:39.000] But isn't it like just by just by doing that very, very quickly, everything would become about doing the right thing.
[57:39.000 -> 57:43.000] And we we feel we can't change the world, but I sort of think we can, you know.
[57:43.000 -> 57:48.000] I totally agree. And that's almost what I was saying earlier about a mission being happiness.
[57:48.000 -> 57:55.000] And it's easy for that to sound selfish, but actually I don't think it is selfish because I think that it's so easy.
[57:55.000 -> 57:59.000] And I've seen many kind of well-meaning activists do this, and I'm sure I've done it myself in the past,
[57:59.000 -> 58:05.920] where you try and change the world in a big external way, but you're so stressed and
[58:05.920 -> 58:10.240] caught up in the problem and the negativity of the problem that you're actually bringing
[58:10.240 -> 58:14.520] maybe stress and fear to the people in your kind of immediate circle.
[58:14.920 -> 58:19.560] And I think actually maybe what's more important is a much humbler approach to,
[58:19.920 -> 58:22.520] if you're going to think about your impact on the world, a much humbler approach of
[58:22.520 -> 58:28.960] like, actually, what is the impact I'm having on the small circle of people that I'm interacting with?
[58:28.960 -> 58:32.640] And also the people I see every day, you know, like the people you walk past in the street.
[58:32.640 -> 58:37.360] There's a great term for that, Lily, they call it pro-noyer. So rather than be paranoid,
[58:37.360 -> 58:39.760] be pro-noyed, and rather than believe everyone's out to get you,
[58:40.320 -> 58:42.480] have the view that everyone's out to help you.
[58:42.480 -> 58:46.240] And then it's residual, right? because if I'm then being slightly nice
[58:46.240 -> 58:48.200] You know, like not in a ridiculous way
[58:48.200 -> 58:51.640] But you know like just letting people pass or cars pass and smiling or saying hello
[58:51.900 -> 58:53.560] You know that they might do that too
[58:53.560 -> 58:58.840] And and actually if a lot of us did that we'd probably find that things would shift pretty quickly
[58:58.840 -> 59:10.480] I totally agree. What when are we gonna realize that only good things come from being good to people around us? Hopefully one day if you read Lily's book you may well take a step closer to that.
[59:10.480 -> 59:14.600] Lily, we're just coming towards the end of our really enjoyable conversation. We have
[59:14.600 -> 59:18.920] a few quick fire questions. Can we throw them your way? Yeah, go for it. This one always
[59:18.920 -> 59:26.000] stumps people. Three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you have to buy into.
[59:26.000 -> 59:32.000] Honesty, integrity, humor.
[59:32.000 -> 59:38.000] Well, I wouldn't not let somebody be in my life because they're not funny, but I think it's an important one. Fun.
[59:38.000 -> 59:40.000] How important is legacy to you?
[59:40.000 -> 59:48.120] I think it's really important, but it doesn't have to be in a like like a famous way I don't need to have like a plinth or something it's more about
[59:48.120 -> 59:52.440] feeling good about my impact on the world. What advice would you give to a
[59:52.440 -> 59:58.000] teenage Lily just starting out? Don't worry everything's gonna be fine try and
[59:58.000 -> 01:00:02.520] enjoy the ride. I know we asked this question earlier in the interview Lily
[01:00:02.520 -> 01:00:07.300] but I'll ask it again are you happy? mean, it's not I don't think happiness is a binary thing
[01:00:07.960 -> 01:00:13.820] I would say on a scale of like zero to ten. I'm probably an eight today
[01:00:14.640 -> 01:00:19.720] Seven eight so it could be happier, but definitely in the upper end of the scale
[01:00:20.280 -> 01:00:22.880] Good. I'm glad this interview hasn't put me down, honey
[01:00:24.080 -> 01:00:28.000] Well, I was on a nine when we started actually.
[01:00:28.000 -> 01:00:30.000] I'm joking.
[01:00:30.000 -> 01:00:34.000] And finally, for people listening to this, it's all about takeaways,
[01:00:34.000 -> 01:00:37.000] it's all about them just being challenged.
[01:00:37.000 -> 01:00:40.000] What's your one golden rule to living a high-performance life?
[01:00:40.000 -> 01:00:43.000] And by the way, high performance can be anything you deem it to be.
[01:00:43.000 -> 01:00:48.440] Stay curious, I guess, because the curiosity drives enthusiasm and the enthusiasm drives
[01:00:48.440 -> 01:00:49.440] the work.
[01:00:49.440 -> 01:00:52.080] Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
[01:00:52.080 -> 01:00:57.120] Not too similar to Johnny Wilkinson's answer about explore, live a life of exploration.
[01:00:57.120 -> 01:00:58.840] Lily I really enjoyed that.
[01:00:58.840 -> 01:01:02.800] Yeah, super interesting, thank you.
[01:01:02.800 -> 01:01:03.800] Damien
[01:01:03.800 -> 01:01:04.800] Jake
[01:01:04.800 -> 01:01:06.480] Well look I really enjoyed that.
[01:01:06.480 -> 01:01:09.600] And it reminds me of the fact that you've got two choices in life.
[01:01:09.600 -> 01:01:14.400] You can either put yourself right in the middle and go for it, or you can stand on the edge
[01:01:14.400 -> 01:01:16.240] and snipe and criticize.
[01:01:16.240 -> 01:01:18.240] And Lily is certainly the former, not the latter.
[01:01:18.240 -> 01:01:19.240] Yeah.
[01:01:19.240 -> 01:01:22.280] But when we knew we were going to sit down with her, I was telling a friend of mine that
[01:01:22.280 -> 01:01:26.240] we were going to chat with Lily and we both read the book, Who Cares? i gyd. Roeddwn i'n dweud wrth fy ffrind i fynd i siarad gyda Lily ac roedd gennym ni'r llyfr
[01:01:26.240 -> 01:01:33.360] Who Cares Wins ac fe wnaethon ni ei ddysgrifio fel dynol, sy'n dweud fy mod i'n meddwl oedd yn ddangoswyr
[01:01:33.360 -> 01:01:41.520] unrhywun sy'n ymdrechus, sydd wedi byw yn byw gyda phob bywyd yn 32 oed, ond mae wedi cael
[01:01:41.520 -> 01:01:47.760] y cwriosi anhygoel i geisio deall y byd y mae hi'n ei gynnig yn hytrach na dim ond yn gweithio but she's been she's had that innate curiosity to try and understand the world that she inhabits rather than just
[01:01:47.920 -> 01:01:54.240] Existing within it and I think that came through in terms of the fact that she was asking those questions and challenging
[01:01:54.240 -> 01:01:58.120] Our thought process as much as we were asking her says something
[01:01:58.720 -> 01:02:04.520] Really powerful about about her and the way that she occupies them her place in the world
[01:02:04.800 -> 01:02:09.080] about her and the way that she occupies her place in the world. And we spoke a lot about existing in a world where people are very ready to
[01:02:09.080 -> 01:02:12.880] offer you their criticism but if you break down everything that she
[01:02:12.880 -> 01:02:16.240] spoke about really today all it was about was finding your set of beliefs
[01:02:16.240 -> 01:02:21.640] making sure you regularly challenge those beliefs and sharing as much of
[01:02:21.640 -> 01:02:28.240] those beliefs with your own circle as possible in a really positive, giving, encouraging, embracing way.
[01:02:28.240 -> 01:02:31.080] Now, if we all adopted that school of thought,
[01:02:31.080 -> 01:02:32.860] whether you agree with what Lily thinks
[01:02:32.860 -> 01:02:34.440] or whether your mindset is totally different,
[01:02:34.440 -> 01:02:36.800] if we adopted that school of thought,
[01:02:36.800 -> 01:02:38.600] then the world would be so much better
[01:02:38.600 -> 01:02:40.800] and nicer and warmer and fuzzier.
[01:02:42.260 -> 01:02:46.440] Definitely, and I think there was something around her message for
[01:02:46.440 -> 01:02:50.840] anyone that is listening to this and thinking how can I change my team or my
[01:02:50.840 -> 01:02:55.480] business or a wider organization that I'm involved in and I think the point is
[01:02:55.480 -> 01:03:00.960] don't try and boil the ocean just try and make a difference in where you are
[01:03:00.960 -> 01:03:06.960] where you stand and who you come into contact with and I think there's a big message there for anyone listening to this that don't try and change the world y byddwch chi'n dod i'r lle y byddwch chi'n dod i'r lle a'r rhai rydych chi'n cael cysylltiad â nhw. Ac rwy'n credu mai mae'n gweithio'n ffyrdd iawn, os ydych chi'n clywed hynny,
[01:03:06.960 -> 01:03:08.880] na fyddech chi'n ceisio newid y byd,
[01:03:08.880 -> 01:03:12.640] dewch i newid eich byd eich hun a'r byd ar gael ar y ddewis.
[01:03:12.640 -> 01:03:13.280] Briliant.
[01:03:13.280 -> 01:03:15.520] Neun ffilm ddiddorol, Damien, diolch yn fawr.
[01:03:18.960 -> 01:03:22.320] Wel, Damien, y cyfathrebu i'r ffilm Eddie Hearn o'r wythnos diwethaf
[01:03:22.320 -> 01:03:23.920] oedd yn anhygoel.
[01:03:23.920 -> 01:03:30.240] Edrychwch, os yw Lilly Cole, a oeddwn i'n clywed, os yw'r wythnos diwethaf oedd yn anhygoel. Edrychwch, y byddai Lily Cole, a fyddai Eddie, y byddai Stephen Gerrard. Un peth rydyn ni'n dysgu yw bod pawb
[01:03:30.240 -> 01:03:33.600] yn cael rwythi ar eu hunain o lefel o lefel o lefel cyffro, dydyn nhw ddim?
[01:03:33.600 -> 01:03:37.280] Ie, ac rwy'n credu bod hwn wedi bod yn ddod o'r brif pwysig iawn y bydd y rhai o bobl wedi deall
[01:03:37.280 -> 01:03:44.000] nad ydyn ni'n gynhyrchu cyfrifiad, fformilau, a ffyrdd o wneud y peth. Rwy'n credu bod pawb
[01:03:44.000 -> 01:03:45.240] yn rhaid iddo ddod o'u ffyrdd ei hun, ac rwy'n credu os yw'r podcastau hyn yn gallu gael pobl yn meddwl formula, a certain set way of doing it. I think everybody's got to find their own way.
[01:03:45.240 -> 01:03:48.240] And I think if these podcasts can get people thinking
[01:03:48.240 -> 01:03:50.560] and reflecting, that's success.
[01:03:50.560 -> 01:03:52.120] There's a really nice message we've had in actually,
[01:03:52.120 -> 01:03:54.080] Damien, that links to that point.
[01:03:54.080 -> 01:03:55.960] And it says, it's from Kieran Joyce,
[01:03:55.960 -> 01:03:57.280] and he says, excellent episode
[01:03:57.280 -> 01:03:59.800] of the High Performance Podcast with Eddie Hearn,
[01:03:59.800 -> 01:04:03.080] a top class interview on sticking to a process of hard work,
[01:04:03.080 -> 01:04:04.400] staying positive, and most of all,
[01:04:04.400 -> 01:04:07.560] having a passion for what you do. And you're right, everyone does have a
[01:04:07.560 -> 01:04:11.320] different way to get where they're going but I think the things that stand out
[01:04:11.320 -> 01:04:16.040] every time is passion and hard work. People that really love what they're
[01:04:16.040 -> 01:04:19.400] doing because I think the hard work naturally follows on from loving what
[01:04:19.400 -> 01:04:23.840] you're involved in doesn't it? Absolutely, I think that passion gets you through
[01:04:23.840 -> 01:04:26.000] those sticky bits in the middle. There's an article called Ben A Brown talks about Yn siŵr, rwy'n credu bod y pasiwn yn cyflawni i chi drwy'r rhan fach yma.
[01:04:26.000 -> 01:04:31.000] Mae un arian o'r enw Ben A Brown yn siarad am y rhan fach o'r ffyrdd byth yn mynd.
[01:04:31.000 -> 01:04:36.000] Mae'n bob amser y byddwch chi'n ymwneud â'r ffordd i fynd yn ôl, ond dydych chi ddim yn cyflawni i'r diwedd.
[01:04:36.000 -> 01:04:41.000] Ac rwy'n credu y byddwch chi'n mynd drwy'r stagion anoddau y mae pob un yn eu cyfrif,
[01:04:41.000 -> 01:04:47.240] yw'r pasiwn a'r dymorth i gael mwy o gael mwy o gael i chi wneud, ac i chael ymwneud â'r stfantais a'r dymuniad i gyd. Felly, gwneud yr hyn rydych chi'n ei wneud ac yn cymdeithas ar y pethau mawr.
[01:04:47.240 -> 01:04:48.280] Ac mae hynny wedi bod yn cydweithredol,
[01:04:48.280 -> 01:04:50.000] oherwydd yw Steven Gerrard,
[01:04:50.000 -> 01:04:52.120] a ddweud ychydig wythnosau yn ôl
[01:04:52.120 -> 01:04:54.480] y momentau anodd y byddwn yn eu profi
[01:04:54.480 -> 01:04:55.160] yn y carrer hwn,
[01:04:55.160 -> 01:04:56.560] neu Lily Cole,
[01:04:56.560 -> 01:04:58.520] mae'r gofyn i'w herio
[01:04:58.520 -> 01:04:59.640] i'r diwygiad ffasiwn
[01:04:59.640 -> 01:05:01.080] y gydaeth yn ei gilydd
[01:05:01.080 -> 01:05:02.600] fel model ifanc.
[01:05:02.600 -> 01:05:03.480] Rwy'n credu, Damien,
[01:05:03.480 -> 01:05:04.760] rydych chi'n iawn, fel bob amser.
[01:05:04.760 -> 01:05:05.520] Dw i'n mynd i drwy ychydig o'r commentaion. Byddwch yn hoffi hwn. Dyma oedd Ricky Cooney, 82, was in as a young model. I think you're totally right as always. I'm just
[01:05:05.520 -> 01:05:07.800] going to go through a few of the comments. You will love this one. This is
[01:05:07.800 -> 01:05:12.480] from Ricky Cooney 82 and he just gets in touch to say, fantastic the
[01:05:12.480 -> 01:05:18.360] unintentional education given to listeners is immeasurable. The unscripted
[01:05:18.360 -> 01:05:22.280] answers by some of the elite on this podcast are liberating. They demonstrate
[01:05:22.280 -> 01:05:25.160] that they're human, grounded, they cry and
[01:05:25.160 -> 01:05:31.160] they bleed. This is what I love. My 13 year old son even makes notes. Now I've
[01:05:31.160 -> 01:05:34.500] sort of chosen carefully about the bits that I share with my children Damien who
[01:05:34.500 -> 01:05:39.380] are five and seven but there is definitely something in sharing this
[01:05:39.380 -> 01:05:43.080] stuff with your kids or your nieces or your nephews, the young people in your
[01:05:43.080 -> 01:05:47.440] life because I don't think you're ever too young to realise that you can make a ychydig o'ch plant neu'ch nefydd, y bobl ifanc yn eich bywyd, oherwydd dwi ddim yn meddwl eich bod chi'n byw'n byw'n fawr iawn i sefydlu eich bod chi'n gallu gwneud gwahaniaeth,
[01:05:47.440 -> 01:05:48.640] eich bod chi'n gallu bod yn bwysig,
[01:05:48.640 -> 01:05:50.400] eich bod chi'n gallu cyfrif yr hyn rydych chi'n hoffi.
[01:05:50.400 -> 01:05:52.480] Ie, rwy'n credu ei fod yn eithaf pwerus.
[01:05:52.480 -> 01:05:55.000] Rydw i wedi'i ddefnyddio, yn enwedig gyda fy mhobl,
[01:05:55.000 -> 01:05:56.480] sy'n 11 oed.
[01:05:56.480 -> 01:05:58.600] Roedden ni'n cwrdd gyda sgwrs ddiddorol
[01:05:58.600 -> 01:05:59.720] pan ddechreuodd ei ffôn cyntaf,
[01:05:59.720 -> 01:06:01.000] ac roedd yn siarad am
[01:06:01.000 -> 01:06:02.880] ymuno â'r gweithgareddau cymdeithasol,
[01:06:02.880 -> 01:06:04.960] ac roeddwn i'n ymuno âdd ymlaen âdd ym,
[01:06:04.960 -> 01:06:06.800] ac roeddwn i'n mynd i ymweld âi ymuno âddynt ac ysgrifennu
[01:06:06.800 -> 01:06:11.040] Dean O'Asher Smith ac yna gofyn i ei gyd-dod o'r cyfrin pan ddweudwn iddo o'r cwestiwn honno.
[01:06:11.040 -> 01:06:14.640] Felly ie, rwy'n credu os ydych chi'n ddiddorol amdano, rwy'n credu bod ganddyn nhw blaen i'r blaen i
[01:06:14.640 -> 01:06:20.000] clywed hwn ac yn sylweddoli bod y cyflawniadau hwnnw ddim ar lefel gwahanol na phob un o ni,
[01:06:20.000 -> 01:06:26.640] maen nhw i gyd wedi dechrau ar yr un le a rhai o'r wylioedd a ddynhyn nhw wedi'u dysgu they've all started at the same place and some of the lessons that they learned can be applied at any age.
[01:06:26.640 -> 01:06:31.760] And let me tell you a quick story, there's a Crystal Palace fan site called HLTCO,
[01:06:31.760 -> 01:06:37.360] which stands for Hopkins Looking to Curl One, and over the past few years they've incessantly come at me
[01:06:37.360 -> 01:06:42.960] for my work on the television or for my tweets or for whatever, you know, because if I ask a question
[01:06:42.960 -> 01:06:45.740] about a footballer who they really love and I'm asking a question
[01:06:45.740 -> 01:06:47.960] that might be seen as negative or I'm questioning
[01:06:47.960 -> 01:06:49.340] that player to one of the pundits,
[01:06:49.340 -> 01:06:51.160] I think I'm just doing my job.
[01:06:51.160 -> 01:06:52.820] They think I'm biased against their team.
[01:06:52.820 -> 01:06:56.320] So the HLTCO just was sort of calling me out
[01:06:56.320 -> 01:06:58.920] on social media and it did definitely impact me a little bit.
[01:06:58.920 -> 01:07:00.960] Then they put up a message this week saying,
[01:07:00.960 -> 01:07:02.900] I need to mention Jake Humphrey.
[01:07:02.900 -> 01:07:04.460] I got him totally wrong.
[01:07:04.460 -> 01:07:07.840] I've been listening to every episode of his podcast and it's totally changed my
[01:07:07.840 -> 01:07:08.240] view of him.
[01:07:08.240 -> 01:07:11.480] And we actually exchanged private messages on Twitter and they admitted that
[01:07:11.880 -> 01:07:14.800] maybe they were a bit immature, maybe they didn't quite understand things.
[01:07:15.120 -> 01:07:18.760] And that is something that I think is so important about this podcast is that
[01:07:19.000 -> 01:07:20.200] we're all forming our,
[01:07:20.280 -> 01:07:24.320] most of us are forming our opinion of people in the public eye or people who've
[01:07:24.320 -> 01:07:25.520] been successful
[01:07:25.520 -> 01:07:29.680] from what we've seen rather than really knowing them and this message that we had from Paul
[01:07:29.680 -> 01:07:35.440] Taze who's listening on Apple podcasts he said beneath the flash exterior and bravado Eddie
[01:07:35.440 -> 01:07:42.000] Hearn is seriously driven and accepting of 100% responsibility no passion no point I love it I
[01:07:42.000 -> 01:07:50.000] love the high performance podcast thanks for that Paul but I think that's the point with this pod, is that we're not just covering the same old clichés and the same old conversations
[01:07:50.000 -> 01:07:53.000] and just kind of scratching a little bit at the surface.
[01:07:53.000 -> 01:08:03.000] Both of us notice that about 15 or 20 minutes into our conversations, the bravado, the front disappears and we actually get to the person, don't we?
[01:08:03.000 -> 01:08:05.520] Yeah, every time. I think that's been, rwy'n credu mai hynny wedi bod,
[01:08:05.520 -> 01:08:09.120] beth sydd wedi bod yn ddiddorol iawn amdano yw bod un o'r ffeaturau o
[01:08:09.120 -> 01:08:12.480] perfformi anhygoel, nid ydyn nhw'n cael eu stwngio mewn ffordd ariannol,
[01:08:12.480 -> 01:08:16.240] dydynt, dych chi'n gwybod, fel yr episodi rydyn ni wedi clywed yno gyda Lily,
[01:08:16.240 -> 01:08:19.840] lle roedd e yn mynd i ni i gysylltu cyfathrebu fel rydyn ni yn mynd i gysylltu gyda ni,
[01:08:19.840 -> 01:08:22.400] beth ydych chi'n meddwl, beth o wybodaeth y gaf i chi,
[01:08:22.400 -> 01:08:25.520] y gallwn ni fynd ymlaen a efallai i'w gynllunio
[01:08:25.520 -> 01:08:30.480] y ffordd rydw i'n ymwneud â'r sefyllfa ac ymdrechion yr ydych chi'n rhoi ar y
[01:08:30.480 -> 01:08:34.640] cyfrifol crystal yw wir yn hyfryd, dim ond oherwydd mae'n gwneud iddyn nhw meddwl
[01:08:34.640 -> 01:08:49.480] y byddent wedi gwneud y tro i ddweud, a healthy trait of all high performers, the ability to learn and unlearn is what
[01:08:49.480 -> 01:08:54.720] distinguishes the elite. And it reminds me of a phrase that my dad used to use a
[01:08:54.720 -> 01:09:00.720] few years ago and he used to say to me, hold Jake or Jacob as he calls me, Jacob
[01:09:00.720 -> 01:09:07.800] hold your beliefs lightly and I didn't get it at the time I was thinking thinking, dad, no, in life, you have to really, you know,
[01:09:07.800 -> 01:09:10.500] that old phrase, stand for nothing, fall for everything.
[01:09:10.600 -> 01:09:12.200] I used to listen to me go, no, it's a nonsense.
[01:09:12.200 -> 01:09:13.300] Hold your beliefs lightly.
[01:09:13.300 -> 01:09:14.000] What are you talking about?
[01:09:14.000 -> 01:09:15.400] I know exactly where I'm going.
[01:09:15.400 -> 01:09:16.800] I know exactly how I'm going to get there.
[01:09:16.800 -> 01:09:19.700] And I'm going to make sure that the seven steps from here to there
[01:09:19.700 -> 01:09:21.000] are the ones I'm going to take.
[01:09:22.100 -> 01:09:25.880] Only by doing this podcast, do I realise that hold your
[01:09:25.880 -> 01:09:30.680] beliefs lightly is absolutely right. It's not hold your values lightly, you've still
[01:09:30.680 -> 01:09:34.240] got to have your values, have your approach, have the way you live. But I
[01:09:34.240 -> 01:09:37.880] guess what I've started to hold lightly is how I'm going to get there.
[01:09:37.880 -> 01:09:41.920] Absolutely, I think that's such a beautiful graceful phrase that hold your
[01:09:41.920 -> 01:09:49.120] belief lightly because it taps into the idea that the illiterate of this century ymdrechion sy'n cymryd eich credu'n leicio, oherwydd mae'n mynd i mewn i'r syniad y bydd y cyfrifolwyr o'r hyn oedran ddim yn y rhai sy'n gallu ysgrifennu neu'n ddweud yn iawn,
[01:09:49.120 -> 01:09:53.840] mae'n mynd i fod yn y rhai sy'n gallu dysgu ac yn ddysgu, oherwydd mae newidiadau yn digwydd
[01:09:53.840 -> 01:09:58.960] yn y manfyn, os ydych chi'n cymryd at ddewisau gynnar sy'n ddi-ddewis,
[01:09:58.960 -> 01:10:01.760] mae'n debyg eich bod chi'n haws fel Hawlen ar y ffyrdd,
[01:10:01.760 -> 01:10:06.040] mae'n debyg eich bod chi'n dal find yourself still sort of playing Betamax videos
[01:10:06.040 -> 01:10:08.600] in a world of digital technology.
[01:10:08.600 -> 01:10:11.480] I think this ability to go back and refresh our thoughts
[01:10:11.480 -> 01:10:14.400] and our beliefs is, as I said earlier,
[01:10:14.400 -> 01:10:17.320] a trait of all high performance that we've seen.
[01:10:17.320 -> 01:10:18.160] Wonderful.
[01:10:18.160 -> 01:10:19.200] What a nice way to finish.
[01:10:19.200 -> 01:10:21.680] And thank you to all the people that got in touch as well
[01:10:21.680 -> 01:10:22.520] over the last week.
[01:10:22.520 -> 01:10:24.480] Basically just to say, Monday morning,
[01:10:24.480 -> 01:10:26.320] when the high Performance Podcast drops,
[01:10:26.320 -> 01:10:29.000] I make a vow to listen to it and then not moan
[01:10:29.000 -> 01:10:31.080] and to be responsible and to be positive
[01:10:31.080 -> 01:10:33.080] and to make the most of my week.
[01:10:33.080 -> 01:10:34.340] As always, Damien, thanks so much
[01:10:34.340 -> 01:10:35.760] for sharing your time with us.
[01:10:35.760 -> 01:10:37.320] Oh, thanks for having me, Jake, I love it.
[01:10:37.320 -> 01:10:39.680] Top man, right, you have a wonderful week, Damien.
[01:10:39.680 -> 01:10:42.240] You as well, please really dive deep
[01:10:42.240 -> 01:10:43.560] into the High Performance Podcast.
[01:10:43.560 -> 01:10:47.880] Go back, listen to previous episodes, challenge yourself, don't hold your beliefs lightly, take
[01:10:47.880 -> 01:10:53.240] responsibility and have a brilliant week. A big thank you of course to Finn Ryan
[01:10:53.240 -> 01:10:56.920] from Rethink Audio for all of his hard work. The amazing Will O'Connor who works
[01:10:56.920 -> 01:11:00.640] with us as well is also exceptional, we couldn't do it without him. There's a
[01:11:00.640 -> 01:11:03.880] whole team of people involved in this pod and all of us just want the same
[01:11:03.880 -> 01:11:06.060] thing, to help you live a high
[01:11:06.420 -> 01:11:11.000] Performance life don't forget check us out on YouTube check us out on Instagram
[01:11:11.520 -> 01:11:18.920] Check out high performance podcast co.uk, but just make sure that you take responsibility and you have a brilliant week
[01:11:19.280 -> 01:11:39.600] Thanks very much for listening.
[01:11:35.490 -> 01:11:37.550] you