Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Sun, 06 Sep 2020 23:30:00 GMT
Duration:
1:12:48
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Frank Lampard is the current head coach of Chelsea FC. Frank retired as one of the greatest players of the modern era, with his legendary status cemented by his extraordinary achievements and statistics.
When he left Chelsea in the summer of 2014, Frank was the club's record goalscorer with 211 goals from 649 appearances - a truly remarkable return for a consummate professional plying his trade in midfield.
He won 106 international caps for England and was central to the most successful spell in Chelsea's history where he won 11 major trophies, including three Premier League titles, four FA Cups and the Champions League in 2012.
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# Episode Summary: Frank Lampard - High Performance Podcast
In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, Damien and Frank Lampard, the current head coach of Chelsea FC, delve into the world of high performance, resilience, and the importance of personal responsibility. Frank, a legendary player with Chelsea, shares his insights on what it takes to succeed at the highest level of football and beyond.
**Key Takeaways:**
1. **Hard Work and Intelligence:** Frank emphasizes the importance of hard work and intelligence in achieving success. He believes that talent alone is not enough, and that players need to work smart, think smart, and prioritize their goals to reach their full potential.
2. **Self-Criticism and Improvement:** Frank stresses the significance of self-criticism and the ability to identify and address one's shortcomings. He shares how he used to be open to criticism and focused on improving his weaknesses throughout his playing career.
3. **Yin and Yang of Parents:** Frank acknowledges the contrasting influences of his parents on his upbringing. His father, a former footballer, instilled a strong work ethic and discipline in him, while his mother provided emotional support and taught him to rise above criticism.
4. **Resilience and Overcoming Challenges:** Frank believes that the resilience he developed as a young player, facing criticism and pressure, helped him navigate the challenges of professional football. He credits his parents' guidance and his own determination for shaping his resilience.
5. **Coping with External Criticism:** Frank acknowledges the challenges of dealing with external criticism, especially in the age of social media. He emphasizes the importance of empathy for players who face online abuse and shares his own experiences of being targeted by fans early in his career.
6. **Emotional Control and Rising Above:** Frank discusses the emotional control he developed over time, learning to rise above criticism and not react impulsively. He credits his mother's teachings for helping him cultivate this emotional resilience.
7. **100% Responsibility:** Frank is a strong advocate for taking 100% responsibility, even for things that may not be entirely within one's control. He believes that accepting responsibility allows individuals to gain control over situations and improve their chances of success.
8. **Creating a Culture of Responsibility:** As a manager, Frank emphasizes the importance of creating a culture of responsibility within his team. He believes that players need to take ownership of their actions, both good and bad, and that this mindset is essential for building a successful team.
9. **Extra Effort and Individual Communication:** Frank highlights the importance of encouraging players to put in extra effort and go beyond the minimum requirements. He emphasizes the need for individual communication with players to explain the benefits of extra work and how it can positively impact their performance and careers.
10. **Leadership and Setting an Example:** Frank acknowledges that as a leader, he needs to set an example for his players. He believes that players are more likely to follow his lead if they see him putting in the extra work and demonstrating the values he expects from them.
# Podcast Transcript Summary: Frank Lampard - The Making of a Manager
Frank Lampard, the current head coach of Chelsea FC, is a former player who achieved legendary status during his playing career. He holds the record for most goals scored for Chelsea, with 211 goals in 649 appearances. Lampard earned 106 international caps for England and played a crucial role in Chelsea's most successful period, winning numerous trophies, including three Premier League titles, four FA Cups, and the 2012 Champions League.
## Key Points:
1. **Nature vs. Nurture in Talent:** Lampard believes that talent is not the sole determinant of success. He emphasizes the importance of hard work, dedication, and the ability to adapt and improve. He acknowledges that some players may have more natural talent, but he believes that anyone can achieve success through hard work and the right mindset.
2. **100% Responsibility:** Lampard emphasizes the importance of taking 100% responsibility for one's actions and outcomes. He believes that blaming others or making excuses is counterproductive and prevents growth and improvement. He encourages players to take ownership of their performances and to focus on what they can control.
3. **Building a High-Performing Team:** Lampard aims to create a high-performing team that strikes a balance between positivity and a sense of urgency. He believes that it's important to maintain a positive atmosphere while also keeping players on edge to prevent complacency. He acknowledges the challenge of maintaining this balance but emphasizes its importance in achieving success.
4. **Building a Family Atmosphere:** Lampard believes that creating a family atmosphere within a team is essential for success. He emphasizes the importance of communication, respect, and a sense of togetherness among players. He acknowledges that creating a true family atmosphere in a competitive, high-performance sport is challenging but believes it's necessary for long-term success.
5. **Balancing Close Relationships with Players and Maintaining Professional Boundaries:** Lampard recognizes the importance of building close relationships with players to understand their needs and motivations. However, he also emphasizes the need to maintain professional boundaries and to make tough decisions when necessary. He believes that honesty and transparency are key in communicating with players, even when delivering difficult messages.
6. **Adapting Non-Negotiables:** Lampard acknowledges that while it's important to have non-negotiables as a manager, it's also important to be flexible and adapt to changing circumstances. He believes that certain rules and expectations can be adjusted over time as the team evolves and as new challenges arise.
7. **The Power of Positive Reinforcement:** Lampard emphasizes the importance of positive reinforcement and encouragement in motivating players. He believes that telling players how good they can be and highlighting their strengths can have a significant impact on their performance and confidence. He recalls a conversation with Jose Mourinho, where Mourinho told him he could be the best player in the world, which had a profound impact on his mindset.
8. **Losing the Dressing Room:** Lampard discusses the concept of "losing the dressing room," which refers to a situation where players lose faith in the manager and the team's direction. He believes that communication is key in preventing this from happening. He emphasizes the importance of being clear and transparent with players, addressing issues promptly, and creating a positive and supportive environment.
9. **Dealing with the Crazy World of Football:** Lampard acknowledges that football is a crazy world where success and failure are often unpredictable. He emphasizes the importance of accepting that there is an element of luck and randomness in the game. However, he believes that managers should focus on what they can control and take responsibility for their actions and decisions.
10. **Recruitment and Identifying the Right Players:** Lampard highlights the importance of recruitment and identifying the right players for a team. He believes that getting the right players, rather than the best players, is crucial for success. He emphasizes the need for a joined-up approach between the manager, the club, and the scouting team to ensure that players are aligned with the team's philosophy and style of play.
# Podcast Episode Summary: Frank Lampard's Journey as Chelsea's Head Coach
Frank Lampard, the former Chelsea legend and current head coach, shares his insights on managing a top-flight football club, recruitment strategies, and the challenges of being a manager in the modern game.
**Key Points Discussed:**
1. **Recruitment Process:**
- Lampard emphasizes the importance of a well-thought-out recruitment process, where players are brought in based on their ability to improve the team and align with the club's vision.
- He stresses the need for players who are not only technically proficient but also possess the right mentality and character to contribute positively to the team's success.
2. **Managing Up:**
- Lampard acknowledges the significance of managing upwards within the club's hierarchy, particularly with the club's owner and board members.
- He believes in open communication and regular updates to keep stakeholders informed about the team's progress and challenges.
- Building strong relationships with key decision-makers is crucial for a manager's long-term success.
3. **The Messy Middle Stage:**
- Lampard recognizes that every manager goes through a "messy middle" stage in their career, where they face setbacks and challenges that test their resilience and adaptability.
- He emphasizes the importance of staying focused, working hard, and learning from mistakes during this phase to emerge stronger and more experienced.
4. **Dealing with Setbacks:**
- Lampard acknowledges that setbacks and losses are inevitable in football management and shares his approach to dealing with them.
- He believes in analyzing performances, taking responsibility for mistakes, and working on improvements rather than dwelling on negative results.
- He also highlights the importance of maintaining a positive attitude and fostering a supportive environment within the team.
5. **Coaching and Learning:**
- Lampard values the input and advice of his coaching staff and is open to learning from others, including former players and managers.
- He believes in creating a collaborative environment where ideas are shared and respected, leading to better decision-making and improved team performance.
6. **Work-Life Balance:**
- Lampard acknowledges the demanding nature of football management and the need for work-life balance to maintain mental and emotional well-being.
- He finds support and a different perspective from his wife, Christine, who is not involved in the football world, and values the time he spends with his family.
7. **Burnout and Self-Care:**
- Lampard recognizes the risk of burnout in football management and emphasizes the importance of taking breaks and recharging during the season.
- He believes in being kind to oneself and surrounding oneself with supportive people who can help maintain a healthy work-life balance.
8. **Parenting and Values:**
- Lampard shares his approach to parenting his young daughter, Patricia, and the lessons he has learned from his own parents.
- He emphasizes the importance of being a positive and supportive parent, instilling good manners and values in his children, and creating a loving and nurturing home environment.
# High-Performance Podcast Episode Summary:
Frank Lampard, the Chelsea Football Club's current head coach, is an icon of the modern era, known for his extraordinary achievements and statistics as a player. He holds the record for being Chelsea's highest goal scorer with 211 goals in 649 appearances. Lampard played 106 international caps for England and was instrumental in Chelsea's most successful period, winning 11 major trophies, including three Premier League titles, four FA Cups, and the Champions League in 2012.
## Key Insights and Points:
- **Dealing with Emotions in High-Pressure Situations:** During a Liverpool match, Lampard reacted emotionally to the team's easy win and celebrations. He expressed regret for his outburst, acknowledging that it was a lapse in judgment. He emphasized the importance of controlling emotions in high-stakes situations and the need to maintain professionalism.
- **Non-Negotiable Behaviors for Success:** Lampard highlighted three non-negotiable behaviors that he and those around him must adhere to: hard work, taking responsibility, and being a nice person. He stressed that these qualities are essential for success, regardless of one's talent or abilities.
- **Advice to Young Athletes:** Lampard advised young athletes to remain calm during tough times and to focus on the big picture. He emphasized the importance of perseverance and resilience, learning from failures, and staying humble. He encouraged young athletes to work hard and improve daily.
- **Defining Legacy:** Lampard expressed that legacy is not a primary concern for him. He believes that focusing on legacy can hinder performance and that it is something to be considered later in life. He emphasized the importance of living in the present and giving one's best in every moment.
- **Golden Rule for High-Performance Life:** Lampard emphasized the importance of having a strong desire to improve daily. He stressed that continuous improvement is crucial for achieving high performance and that individuals should always strive to be better.
- **Communication and Transparency:** Lampard discussed the importance of clear and open communication in leadership. He believes in involving people in the journey, taking them along, and being honest and transparent. He emphasized that even if the outcome is not as desired, people will still support and follow if they are kept informed and involved.
- **Balancing Soft and Hard Leadership Styles:** Lampard spoke about the influence of his parents' contrasting parenting styles on his leadership approach. He acknowledged the need for both a softer, more compassionate side and a tougher, more demanding side in leadership, depending on the situation and the people involved.
- **The Importance of Community:** The podcast highlighted the importance of creating a community around the podcast, encouraging listeners to engage, share their thoughts, and be part of the conversation. It emphasized the value of having a supportive network of people who understand and appreciate one's journey.
## Overall Message:
The podcast emphasized the significance of hard work, resilience, and continuous improvement in achieving high performance. It highlighted the importance of effective communication, transparency, and involving people in the journey. The discussion also touched upon the delicate balance between different leadership styles and the value of having a supportive community. The overall message conveyed the importance of striving for excellence, maintaining a positive attitude, and learning from both successes and failures.
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[02:41.720 -> 02:45.080] performance podcast welcome once again to another episode
[02:45.080 -> 02:47.160] that I hope is going to inspire you,
[02:47.160 -> 02:50.360] challenge you, uplift you, leave you feeling good
[02:50.360 -> 02:52.480] for whatever is ahead of you today.
[02:52.480 -> 02:54.560] As always, Damien and myself love it
[02:54.560 -> 02:57.280] when you share your thoughts with us about the podcast.
[02:57.280 -> 02:59.560] You can do that via social media,
[02:59.560 -> 03:01.200] or you can leave us a review
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[03:02.820 -> 03:04.040] If you can rate the pod as well,
[03:04.040 -> 03:06.140] that makes a real difference to us.
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[03:09.360 -> 03:11.800] in Norway says, thanks for making this podcast.
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[03:14.940 -> 03:16.280] as a youth football coach.
[03:16.280 -> 03:18.960] Your guests are absolutely fantastic as well for me.
[03:18.960 -> 03:22.040] The episode with Phil Neville was especially interesting.
[03:22.040 -> 03:24.920] Well, Eric's job and many other people,
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[03:31.280 -> 03:32.720] I don't want a beautiful family.
[03:32.720 -> 03:34.220] I want players that can rely on each other
[03:34.220 -> 03:35.080] when they go out on the pitch.
[03:35.080 -> 03:37.080] They're gonna be tough and back each other up
[03:37.080 -> 03:37.920] at the right moments.
[03:37.920 -> 03:38.740] And that, as I say,
[03:38.740 -> 03:40.240] that doesn't look like the beautiful family.
[03:40.240 -> 03:41.320] And that's life.
[03:41.320 -> 03:42.480] Lots of things in my family,
[03:42.480 -> 03:43.440] without going into detail,
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[03:57.840 -> 04:03.360] YouTube as well. Just look for the High Performance Podcast channel. You can follow us across Instagram
[04:03.360 -> 04:06.480] at High Performance. You can find Damien at liquid thinker.
[04:06.640 -> 04:11.040] I'm at Jay Humphrey. And as always, this podcast simply
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[04:32.880 -> 04:38.120] this week's episode so settle back maybe grab a notepad and pencil because
[04:38.120 -> 04:42.560] there's so many takeaways from this week's episode of the High Performance
[04:42.560 -> 04:45.160] Podcast. episode of the high-performance podcast
[04:46.560 -> 04:50.160] hi there I'm Jay Comfrey you're listening to high performance the
[04:50.160 -> 04:53.360] podcast that delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes
[04:53.360 -> 04:57.400] visionaries entrepreneurs and artists on the planet and aims to unlock the very
[04:57.400 -> 05:00.900] secrets to their success now everyone needs a professor in their life and mine
[05:00.900 -> 05:04.600] is all service psychologist and author not a bad co-host either
[05:04.600 -> 05:08.080] taming is someone who loves the game of football and has studied the game of yw'r rhai sydd yng nghyfraith eich bywyd, ac mae'n fy nhref i hefyd yn ymgyrchwr a chyfrifoldeb. Nid yw'n gynllun cyd-gyrfaeth hefyd. Tamien, fel un sy'n hoffi'r chwaraeon ffotbol a sy'n astudio'r chwaraeon ffotbol,
[05:08.080 -> 05:11.120] rwy'n meddwl eich bod yn mynd i ffwrdd gyda cwestiynau heddiw.
[05:11.120 -> 05:14.640] Rwy'n, yn fawr iawn. Rwyf wedi drosglwyddo cwent o'r unigol hon
[05:14.640 -> 05:18.160] sy'n dweud ei fod yn hoffi pobl sy'n siŵr i siarad yn ddiweddar ac yn ddwyieith.
[05:18.160 -> 05:21.600] Felly byddwn i'n ei ddod at hynny, fel dwi'n eithaf yn edrych arno.
[05:21.600 -> 05:23.840] Rwy'n credu ei fod ar y pwdcast iawn, ydych chi?
[05:23.840 -> 05:27.000] Gadewch i ni i mewn, ac yn ddiweddaru i ddyn sy'n gael yr holl beth sy'n gallu ei gael fel chwaraewr.
[05:27.000 -> 05:30.000] 11 o gyfrifau'n fwyaf dros 13 mlynedd gyda Chelsea.
[05:30.000 -> 05:32.000] Mae'n ddynion clwb, mae'n ymwneud â'u cyllid arall,
[05:32.000 -> 05:47.260] ac ar gyfer y blwyddyn diwethaf, mae'n rheoli'r clwb rydyn ni'n ei wneud hefyd. Yn ogystal â hynny, mae'n ymwneud â'i ymweld. Mae'n ymwneud â'i llyfrau, mae'n ymwneud â'i profiad, mae'n ymwneud â'i gofynnau, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ffyrdd, mae'n ymwneud â'i ffyrdd, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymwneud â'i ddifrifio, mae'n ymw Criticized he's a husband. He's a father yet through it all without high performance. Nothing would have been the same for him
[05:47.260 -> 05:54.400] So welcome to the podcast Frank Lampard Frank. Nice. Have you with us? Thank you. Good to be here. So what is high performance?
[05:57.200 -> 06:01.240] Hard work, I think anything that you in anything you do in life
[06:02.080 -> 06:04.080] was fortunate enough to be brought up in
[06:06.420 -> 06:11.520] you do in life. I was fortunate enough to be brought up in pretty comfortable circumstances looking back. But given a huge work ethic and probably a message that anything I wanted
[06:11.520 -> 06:15.920] to do or achieve in life started with hard work. I think that rings true in everything
[06:15.920 -> 06:19.540] I've done and I see it around me in how I work.
[06:19.540 -> 06:27.200] On top of that I would say, well of course talent, which is always pretty subjective. I got called
[06:27.200 -> 06:31.280] a player that made the most of my talents, which is like a backhanded compliment if I
[06:31.280 -> 06:36.000] ever hear one, but I get that too, even when I sort of look at myself. And then I think
[06:36.000 -> 06:41.120] that the last one, which is for me, which I think was a big factor, is intelligence.
[06:41.120 -> 06:44.320] And I don't mean to say I'm intelligent, that would just sound stupid to say that way, but
[06:44.320 -> 06:47.600] I mean in terms of how you approach your goals and
[06:47.600 -> 06:51.040] how you want to get to them for instance in football I would say it's how you
[06:51.040 -> 06:55.480] train smart how you think smart how you prioritize what the things you need to
[06:55.480 -> 06:58.720] do to get to as high up as you can be and I think that's certainly something I
[06:58.720 -> 07:02.840] feel very mirrored in my playing career to my management career and how I see it
[07:02.840 -> 07:09.120] well let's start there then I'm really interested to know where that intelligence came from because there'll be people listening to this podcast who
[07:09.480 -> 07:14.720] Want to be successful. They want to make the most of their talents. They want to live their dreams and achieve their ambitions
[07:15.440 -> 07:21.240] And to do that they need the intelligence to know what to do. Where did that come from for you?
[07:21.840 -> 07:26.640] I think when I go back to the beginning and I talked about the comfortable circumstances,
[07:26.640 -> 07:30.200] I think I was fortunate in terms of where my career went because I had a father who
[07:30.200 -> 07:34.920] was a football player, so as I grew up he was a coach at that point. And then a mother
[07:34.920 -> 07:41.040] who was incredibly supportive in how she brought me up and almost gave me the nicer touches
[07:41.040 -> 07:45.360] and my dad gave me the harder touches. But I think my dad when it came to
[07:45.360 -> 07:50.480] football was very open to making me aware of what my shortcomings were at the time.
[07:50.480 -> 07:58.560] Pace, body shape, left foot heading, whatever. And so I feel like as I grew up I was always
[07:58.560 -> 08:02.800] listening to that and I carried that through my career even when I was playing probably at the
[08:02.800 -> 08:05.920] top of my game or as close to the top as I got,
[08:05.920 -> 08:08.480] I was aware of what I felt were deficiencies,
[08:08.480 -> 08:10.560] and I just attacked them in the only way I could,
[08:10.560 -> 08:14.040] which was how I trained, how I thought about them.
[08:14.040 -> 08:15.280] And so that's when I say intelligence, again,
[08:15.280 -> 08:18.000] I don't mean it as in getting top marks or anything,
[08:18.000 -> 08:20.800] it's just how I try to approach things,
[08:20.800 -> 08:24.520] because I felt like I was always open to self-criticism,
[08:24.520 -> 08:28.040] and then, okay, how do I not just look at what I'm not good at but how do I make it
[08:28.040 -> 08:32.660] better? So can I ask you about your mum and dad then because reading about your
[08:32.660 -> 08:36.800] background it seems like a bit of a yin and yang of your parents that your dad
[08:36.800 -> 08:41.400] was very driven and focused in his own career and he passed on those attributes
[08:41.400 -> 08:45.520] to you and yet your mum does seem to have been more nurturing and
[08:50.480 -> 08:54.960] developed the softer side of you. So one of the things that I read a quote that you said, the piece of advice your mum had passed on was you needed to learn to be kinder to yourself.
[08:54.960 -> 09:00.960] Mm-hmm. The yin and yang is perfect because my dad came from a very, he had a tough upbringing,
[09:00.960 -> 09:09.920] much tougher than mine. He lost his father when he was very young and had to fight to become a professional footballer. He carried that demeanour, very
[09:09.920 -> 09:15.040] old school, very strong. I remember driving home from Sunday morning games, and I've
[09:15.040 -> 09:19.960] said this before, he would be shouting at me in the car. Looking back I was like, I
[09:19.960 -> 09:23.520] don't understand how you can be shouting at me when I was 12, 13 years of age. Then
[09:23.520 -> 09:27.880] I'd get home and I'd be crying and my mum would be the one that would bring me,
[09:27.880 -> 09:30.200] I don't know, my lunch or a cake or something.
[09:30.200 -> 09:31.440] That's probably why I was a chubby kid,
[09:31.440 -> 09:34.520] but she would be the one that would settle me down.
[09:34.520 -> 09:37.400] And so I think, I'd like to think that I took both
[09:37.400 -> 09:40.640] of those sort of sides of it in my professional career.
[09:40.640 -> 09:42.920] Got driven by my dad in that tough way,
[09:42.920 -> 09:44.900] but had my mum giving me those little moments.
[09:44.900 -> 09:45.560] And I remember as I got older, my dad in that tough way. But I had my mum giving me those moments.
[09:45.560 -> 09:50.520] I remember as I got older my mum would always be the one, because I'm quite reactive. If
[09:50.520 -> 09:54.520] I take criticism when I was playing, I'd want to say something back. I'm a bit like that
[09:54.520 -> 09:58.400] in life. My mum was always the one to say to me, just rise above it. I remember saying
[09:58.400 -> 10:02.720] that all the time, rise above, rise above. When I was younger I couldn't quite understand
[10:02.720 -> 10:06.260] it as much as I probably think about it now. I still don't always rise above it. Thank me wrong
[10:06.260 -> 10:13.280] I'm reactive still but when you have those moments sometimes you think about mom's words and probably my dad's actions were probably what kind of
[10:13.560 -> 10:16.440] Molded me in a footballing sense for sure, but in a life way as well
[10:16.480 -> 10:16.980] Yeah
[10:16.980 -> 10:21.860] One of the things that we we talk about a lot on this podcast is resilience and giving your children
[10:22.200 -> 10:28.060] Resilience to deal with the challenges that are in front of them. At the time it sounds like it was quite difficult and
[10:28.060 -> 10:31.940] painful to be shouted at by your dad and to be given some home truths. Do you
[10:31.940 -> 10:35.940] think on reflection that was him instilling the resilience in you so when
[10:35.940 -> 10:38.840] you got to the challenges of professional football you were able to
[10:38.840 -> 10:42.260] draw on the experiences of sitting in the back of that car as a 12 year old
[10:42.260 -> 10:45.040] and and cope with what came your way?
[10:45.040 -> 10:47.040] I think he would claim that was the plan.
[10:47.040 -> 10:48.040] Do you not think so?
[10:48.040 -> 10:54.000] No, I actually think it was just him. And if there was a nice fallout from it for me
[10:54.000 -> 10:57.640] as an older, it did probably make me a bit tougher. And I had some tougher experiences
[10:57.640 -> 11:01.880] as I got on the footballing ladder at West Ham, but with my dad, I think he generally
[11:01.880 -> 11:06.040] reacted how he saw fit at the time. I felt like, and
[11:06.040 -> 11:11.640] I look back, that he was not reliving his football career through me, but he'd done
[11:11.640 -> 11:17.200] it. He'd fought to be this West Ham left back for 15, 20 years. And he himself used to talk
[11:17.200 -> 11:19.840] about his deficiencies that he'd had when he was younger and he used to use running
[11:19.840 -> 11:23.480] spikes and all these great old stories that your dad sort of tells you. And I think he
[11:23.480 -> 11:26.000] took me as a bit of a project, as a son,
[11:26.000 -> 11:29.000] to try and see if he could make me into a professional footballer.
[11:29.000 -> 11:32.000] I didn't really cut loose from that feeling with my dad until my mid-twenties, really,
[11:32.000 -> 11:35.000] of, like, oh, must impress dad when it comes to football.
[11:35.000 -> 11:39.000] I used to remember looking up in the stands at West Ham or in my early Chelsea days
[11:39.000 -> 11:42.000] and kind of think what he would have thought.
[11:42.000 -> 11:45.360] And I needed to really grow out of that by that point.
[11:45.360 -> 11:48.160] So yeah, I don't know how he planned it. I think it was just how he was.
[11:48.160 -> 11:52.720] So what led you to cut those ties that you stopped trying to impress him?
[11:52.720 -> 11:58.160] I think it was just my development and I think as I see it, I turned from being a bit of a boy to a
[11:58.160 -> 12:04.880] man. I think it was a bit like I relied on that because my dad was quite dominant of me in the
[12:04.880 -> 12:05.720] footballing sense and actually in life to be honest. I became a little bit reliant on that because my dad was quite dominant of me in the footballing sense and
[12:05.720 -> 12:10.300] actually in life to be honest. I became a little bit reliant on that. It was like follow
[12:10.300 -> 12:14.500] his word and his lead. And then when I moved across to Chelsea, started playing for England,
[12:14.500 -> 12:18.440] started probably gaining some success, I kind of thought actually no, no. When I thought
[12:18.440 -> 12:21.400] everything that dad said was right was when I was 12 and actually some things I don't
[12:21.400 -> 12:26.860] agree with. Some things I don't see the same as he sees them. Maybe that started to, you know, look at my mum's side then
[12:26.860 -> 12:30.540] or different things in life and I actually started to get, be my own person
[12:30.540 -> 12:35.180] really and I probably moved away and I don't want to make it sound like a big
[12:35.180 -> 12:39.260] breakup, it's not, but in my professional life I started to feel differently.
[12:39.260 -> 12:42.560] Do you know when you were getting criticism when you were breaking into the West Ham team
[12:42.560 -> 12:46.760] and there was that, those sort of accusations of nepotism because your uncle was the
[12:46.760 -> 12:50.760] manager and that there's that famous scene isn't there where fans forum Harry
[12:50.760 -> 12:55.000] kind of defends your honor against a fan that's that's criticizing you don't you
[12:55.000 -> 12:57.880] think that you would have seen all that and been aware of all that at a really
[12:57.880 -> 13:02.440] young age did your dad's criticism at an even younger age not help you in that
[13:02.440 -> 13:06.240] situation because you think well I've seen all this before I've had it on a much more personal
[13:06.240 -> 13:10.280] level from from my dad so I can deal with this or I'm just interested to know
[13:10.280 -> 13:15.000] where the ability to cope with that came from because so many people cannot cope
[13:15.000 -> 13:20.280] with external criticism it maybe did I think it possibly did in that sense it
[13:20.280 -> 13:24.800] felt very different at the time yeah in fact it made my dad my relationship with
[13:24.800 -> 13:25.960] my dad slightly different at the time because In fact, it made my relationship with my dad slightly
[13:25.960 -> 13:29.320] different at the time because it was the first time he flipped and realised I was getting
[13:29.320 -> 13:37.480] a lot of stick pressure from outside. He became softer to it and defended me. My mum played
[13:37.480 -> 13:44.600] a huge role at that point because I was 17, 18 and I was just moving out of home, I think
[13:44.600 -> 13:45.960] got my own flat. At times
[13:45.960 -> 13:50.760] I would be really, really down about warming up and getting pelters from West Ham fans.
[13:50.760 -> 13:57.280] I'm much more reflective on it now and calmer. I wrote a book when I was in my mid-20s and
[13:57.280 -> 14:00.480] I wanted to react and I wanted to put the story straight and all that stuff. I wish
[14:00.480 -> 14:07.860] I'd never done it now because it was definitely something that shaped me but and that period at West Ham definitely helped me as I went through football and
[14:09.120 -> 14:13.100] trials of playing for Chelsea and the good and the bad and the England which is obviously brings
[14:13.100 -> 14:19.280] bad when you don't make it through World Cup, pool of finals and stuff like that. Those early days of West Ham days definitely shaped me.
[14:19.280 -> 14:22.920] I'm thankful for them now and and I'm also thankful for the support
[14:22.920 -> 14:25.640] I did get as I say particularly from my mom at that point.
[14:25.640 -> 14:27.600] That book that you described, I mean,
[14:27.600 -> 14:31.040] I think that you give some really quite powerful examples
[14:31.040 -> 14:33.760] of how visceral and vile some of the abuse
[14:33.760 -> 14:35.920] you were getting is, and I think you recount
[14:35.920 -> 14:38.800] some of those instances of, there was a guy
[14:38.800 -> 14:41.840] in the director's box behind your mom and your auntie
[14:41.840 -> 14:49.880] that would make a point of abusing you for their benefit. And when I was reading that book, it struck me that you were almost an early
[14:49.880 -> 14:53.960] pioneer of what a lot of people get now on social media, the abuse there, but you
[14:53.960 -> 14:57.440] were getting it before social media was a thing. Do you think that that
[14:57.440 -> 15:02.800] helps you now as a manager of this next generation, that you can
[15:02.800 -> 15:08.440] empathize with them a little bit more? Yeah, yeah, it certainly does. I do empathise with them and I'll be very quick to speak on that
[15:08.440 -> 15:11.360] level because when you've experienced something like that, it looks different as you say in
[15:11.360 -> 15:17.540] the modern day, but when you've experienced it, it all feels the same. Unfortunately now
[15:17.540 -> 15:22.840] every player will get it, to whatever period of your career it may be. And when you're
[15:22.840 -> 15:26.320] a young player, you can look bulletproof or give off the impression of being bulletproof o gwmpas eich carrer. Ac os ydych yn chwaraewyr ifanc, gallwch eich gweld eich cymryd llun neu roi'r
[15:26.320 -> 15:30.480] gofyn o fod yn cymryd llun, ond nid yw un. Felly, ie, rwy'n dda iawn i geisio ceisio ceisio ceisio
[15:30.480 -> 15:33.520] ceisio cymryd llun ar hynny. Mae'n ddiddorol, rwy'n ddiddorol iawn ar fy nyrsedd,
[15:34.400 -> 15:38.960] o'r amser mae'n cael ei gilio yn gyntaf, ac nid ydw i'n cael y cyhoeddiadau cymdeithasol cyhoeddiadol,
[15:38.960 -> 15:46.400] oherwydd os ydych chi'n gweld yn y cyfnod, rhaid i chi ddeal â'i gilydd, ac gallai fod yn ddiddorol iawn, yn siŵr. Mae stori'n dda i chi'n ei ddweud am y cyfnod hwnnw,
[15:46.400 -> 15:48.800] lle roedd, rydych chi'n ysgrifennu un yr 14-oed ffyrdd oedol
[15:48.800 -> 15:50.600] sy'n defnyddio chi ar y benc,
[15:50.600 -> 15:53.000] ac yna rydych chi'n mynd i'r banc, ac mae ei mam
[15:53.400 -> 15:55.000] wedi dweud ei bod yn ffyrdd o'r ddeg West Ham,
[15:55.000 -> 15:56.600] ac yna rydych chi'n gwrthi hi allan o'r ffyrdd,
[15:56.600 -> 15:59.600] ac roedd y 14-oed ffyrdd oedol sy'n defnyddio chi'n rhedeg.
[15:59.600 -> 16:01.000] Ac mae'n dda iawn ychydig o'r de
[16:01.000 -> 16:03.400] lle rydych chi'n siarad am y phrase rydych chi'n dweud
[16:03.400 -> 16:04.600] y bydd eich mam wedi'i ddysgu i chi,
[16:04.600 -> 16:05.640] y byddwch chi'n ymwneud â'r peth. Lovely bit where where you speak about that phrase? You said that your mama taught you that you rose above it
[16:05.640 -> 16:12.480] Like it made me laugh when I read that you said that you you consider telling her that are some smelts and
[16:14.760 -> 16:17.600] You said I had to rise above it. Yeah
[16:18.400 -> 16:22.160] So would you explain about that process of where you learn that emotional control?
[16:22.640 -> 16:27.520] Because you say you're reactive, but you obviously weren't in every situation.
[16:27.520 -> 16:29.520] Yeah, that was classic of that period,
[16:29.520 -> 16:31.520] because I remember going to the bank all the time
[16:31.520 -> 16:33.520] and the woman didn't really divulge much.
[16:33.520 -> 16:34.840] I mean, and this one time she did,
[16:34.840 -> 16:36.160] and she said, I'm gonna bring my boys,
[16:36.160 -> 16:38.480] Meldon West Ham, I expected this, you know,
[16:38.480 -> 16:41.520] young, sort of really nice kid coming in
[16:41.520 -> 16:42.720] for West Ham show, I don't know,
[16:42.720 -> 16:44.120] signing his top or something.
[16:44.120 -> 16:49.200] And it turned out to be this kid that sat just behind the dugout and absolutely ruined me. It had literally
[16:49.200 -> 16:53.120] been the week before. He ruined me, swore at me, finger went up, everything.
[16:53.120 -> 16:57.200] And so it was like, I suppose, you know, like the more you experience that thing, a lot
[16:57.200 -> 17:01.440] of that stuff, I think, can feel worse when you hear it from a distance. I remember my
[17:01.440 -> 17:08.160] sisters used to come to games and say things to me that they'd heard and that really hurt me. And then maybe when you actually see it face up and then
[17:08.160 -> 17:13.680] you realise the fact that this is just a 14-year-old kid and it's just a mum who works in
[17:13.680 -> 17:18.240] a bank who's been really nice all the time and this is the kind of mum that is football,
[17:18.240 -> 17:22.080] you kind of actually manage to distinguish what's important and what's not. And I suppose those
[17:22.080 -> 17:27.600] little experiences, and it's not just me, I don't want to sound like I'm crying here too much about it, because I think as
[17:27.600 -> 17:31.920] I say, not just football in life, everyone has these little knocks that you must get
[17:31.920 -> 17:36.080] over and they feel really painful to you at first. Then you go through it again and then
[17:36.080 -> 17:40.320] you realise, and then I started to play better, I got my foot in the first team, started to
[17:40.320 -> 17:48.200] believe in myself a little bit more. And those little digs became just things that spurred me on. I didn't really feel that until I left and
[17:48.200 -> 17:51.520] went to Chelsea because that's when I felt like hang on I'm on a different
[17:51.520 -> 17:55.680] path here. I knew I needed to get away from West Ham because my time there was
[17:55.680 -> 18:00.180] tainted. I don't have nice memories of it and I'm not saying that as a tribal
[18:00.180 -> 18:03.840] digger, a fellow London club because now I'm a Chelsea man. I just don't have nice
[18:03.840 -> 18:09.100] memories of it but I still, that's not to say I don't realize how much it shaped me and how much the opportunity I've got given at the
[18:09.100 -> 18:12.660] Club that is the key thing. I think is that even if something's painful?
[18:13.200 -> 18:14.720] It doesn't mean it isn't valuable
[18:14.720 -> 18:15.220] Yeah
[18:15.220 -> 18:15.600] You know
[18:15.600 -> 18:20.520] There's a phrase I often use which is it's never been harder to be ourselves these days because it's never been easier for other people
[18:20.520 -> 18:24.760] To criticize right in those days. It was a kid in the stands or an adult in the stands now
[18:24.760 -> 18:25.960] It's all over social media
[18:25.960 -> 18:31.120] And I think that that is the key message for a lot of people listening to this is that at the time things can feel
[18:31.120 -> 18:37.360] Really painful, but sometimes you've got to understand that to go through that painful stuff is almost it's almost necessary
[18:37.360 -> 18:42.960] Mm-hmm, you know and that's exactly what your experience is. It feels like yeah, it's just how you you react and
[18:43.520 -> 18:46.880] Sometimes it's a long game. That's the tough thing. In those
[18:46.880 -> 18:52.000] moments you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. All I wanted to do was grow
[18:52.000 -> 18:56.160] up and play for West Ham. I love Tony Cotiella and Frank McIverney. That was my dream. When
[18:56.160 -> 18:59.920] you get the dream and you're on the touchline and you get a fella who's much older than
[18:59.920 -> 19:04.640] you and quite dangerous looking and shouting at you and swearing at you, you go, what is
[19:04.640 -> 19:08.680] this dream about? So at that point I could not see the light at the end of the tunnel
[19:08.680 -> 19:14.440] but day by day, a bit of a better performance, maybe not so good, felt a bit stronger, people
[19:14.440 -> 19:18.400] around me helping me, all these things, they absolutely came together. Not to say it certainly
[19:18.400 -> 19:21.400] would have gone that way, I mean I was very fortunate in different parts of my career
[19:21.400 -> 19:25.600] of timing of things that happened but I'm a big believer in making your own luck.
[19:25.600 -> 19:29.880] I'm a big believer if you train extra, if you try and hold your dignity in moments where
[19:29.880 -> 19:31.040] you could easily lose it.
[19:31.040 -> 19:34.960] I've lost mine at different times in my career, but if you try and do the right thing, you
[19:34.960 -> 19:38.680] may get your little things that go in your favour.
[19:38.680 -> 19:41.120] And I probably had them, coming back to get the Chelsea job.
[19:41.120 -> 19:42.120] My timing was impeccable.
[19:42.120 -> 19:45.400] You know, transfer ban, you're at Derby and the stars
[19:45.400 -> 19:49.320] almost aligned and people were like to tell me that but I don't believe in those things
[19:49.320 -> 19:52.400] happening without reason or for what you put in to get there.
[19:52.400 -> 19:57.280] We talk often on this podcast about 100% responsibility and I think it can be a difficult mindset
[19:57.280 -> 20:02.240] for some people but it basically is even things that are not your fault, there's no point
[20:02.240 -> 20:09.640] not taking responsibility for them because then you can't control them. What are your thoughts on that 100% responsibility?
[20:09.640 -> 20:15.640] I'm absolutely a massive fan of it because one thing I think I've seen in football from
[20:15.640 -> 20:22.960] being a young man trying to make it from playing to now managing is blame and any kind of blame
[20:22.960 -> 20:26.800] culture or it's not me, it's them, it's that. I hear it a lot.
[20:26.800 -> 20:28.400] By the way, even if it is them.
[20:28.400 -> 20:36.000] Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think I'm lucky in a way, but I think part of the way I am is that I never want to look at really,
[20:36.000 -> 20:43.000] and maybe at times it's easy said, I blame the back four useless today for me. I blame the strikers because they didn't finish my...
[20:43.000 -> 20:48.820] And really, generally though, I always inside, always looking't finish. I was always my own biggest critic
[20:48.820 -> 20:53.300] on the pitch and hopefully off the pitch and of course made loads of mistakes. You have
[20:53.300 -> 20:57.000] to take responsibility. If you want to get better you have to take responsibility for
[20:57.000 -> 20:58.000] good or for bad.
[20:58.000 -> 21:05.160] How important is 100% responsibility in the culture you're now trying to create as a manager?
[21:05.160 -> 21:10.960] It's of utmost importance and it's a message you really have to drill home because I think
[21:10.960 -> 21:15.840] it's very easy when you're a coach or a manager and you've been there and had your
[21:15.840 -> 21:19.440] career and you know you've made a million mistakes but when you sit at the top of the
[21:19.440 -> 21:24.180] tree or in my office at Chelsea not to think like the 21-year-old who's making those
[21:24.180 -> 21:28.680] mistakes you made and just think you're above it and I see it all. You have to get on the level
[21:28.680 -> 21:33.800] of these players. And they all have different thoughts, they all have different reasons,
[21:33.800 -> 21:37.360] something at home, on the training pitch how they see things. And so I can't think that
[21:37.360 -> 21:40.960] my morals and my values just transmit to everybody and then everyone will be a great trainer
[21:40.960 -> 21:47.300] like I was and make the most of my talent. Because I didn't. I made mistakes. Sometimes I went out when I shouldn't have done. So I have to be very
[21:47.300 -> 21:52.880] open to that. For the players to try and take responsibility is a daily chip away at trying
[21:52.880 -> 21:57.840] to create something that feels that way. We're in that process at Chelsea. I'm not going
[21:57.840 -> 22:02.560] to lie, we've not won that battle yet. It definitely takes time, particularly with a
[22:02.560 -> 22:08.400] younger squad which we have a lot of young players in there. Mae'n cymryd amser, yn enwedig gyda'r sgwadau mwyaf ifanc, ac mae gennym llawer o chwaraewyr ifanc yno. Un o'r storïau gwych rydw i'n hoffi am eich cyfrifiad cyntaf, Frank,
[22:08.400 -> 22:14.080] oedd y ffaith bod chi'n siarad am dod i mewn a gwneud gweithdai sprint ar dyddiau,
[22:14.080 -> 22:17.440] neu fe wnaethoch chi'n aros yn ôl ac yn gwneud gynnyrch ymchwil.
[22:17.440 -> 22:19.840] Felly, pan oedden ni gydag Rio Ferdinand ar y podcast,
[22:19.840 -> 22:22.880] sprosodd am sut byddai chi'n gweld ti'n gwneud hynny,
[22:22.880 -> 22:25.240] ac fe wnaeth eich copio oherwydd eisiau cael mwy. spoke about how he would see you doing it and he copied you because he wanted to get
[22:25.240 -> 22:30.320] better. How do you cope with young players that are coming into your club that don't
[22:30.320 -> 22:35.600] have that desire, that do have a different view on the world in terms of think that talent
[22:35.600 -> 22:38.800] is going to be enough to forge a successful career?
[22:38.800 -> 22:43.640] Yeah, that's a good question. You can never assume, I've just spoken about my upbringing
[22:43.640 -> 22:46.080] and I think I was drilled with it as a young man
[22:46.080 -> 22:50.360] but you can never assume that another player has that young player. So all you have to
[22:50.360 -> 22:55.160] do is try and show them why it will benefit them, explain it to them. You can't just
[22:55.160 -> 22:58.440] say you must go out and do 100 sprints and then expect them to get on with it and everything
[22:58.440 -> 23:02.800] will be fine. You have to say here's the reason why. Put the detail in it behind it
[23:02.800 -> 23:09.080] to try and go individually through that group and explain to them what extras will do for them, what that will then do for the
[23:09.080 -> 23:13.760] team, what that will do for their home life and where their career might go and all these
[23:13.760 -> 23:19.080] things. And that's communication. You can't lay down laws of you must all do extras and
[23:19.080 -> 23:22.100] then just stand back and watch it from the other side of the pitch. You have to speak
[23:22.100 -> 23:27.620] to the players, change it, ask why, what do they think about it and get close to them. So I try and do that. And the reality
[23:27.620 -> 23:32.340] is if you don't get any uplift after a while with that and you've tried and tried and tried,
[23:32.340 -> 23:35.600] then there might be a time where you have to say you're not going to reach the level.
[23:35.600 -> 23:38.760] Because if you don't have that attitude, no matter what the talent is, and it's a real
[23:38.760 -> 23:43.640] age-old argument that I'm really interested in is sort of nature and nurture and how much
[23:43.640 -> 23:48.560] of this talent and can you just get by by just having pure talent. I watched Neymar recently and I'm going
[23:48.560 -> 23:53.920] wow this guy is an incredibly talented player. But he will have his own version of the hard
[23:53.920 -> 23:56.640] work and what it takes behind the scenes as well. He won't look like mine, he won't
[23:56.640 -> 24:01.680] look like everyone else's. He's an outrageously talented boy. But a lot of us don't have
[24:01.680 -> 24:06.200] that outrageous talent and a lot of us have to put in lots of different types of work around it.
[24:06.200 -> 24:09.200] And if you're talking, asking me, yeah, I would try and push it.
[24:09.200 -> 24:14.000] But if players aren't going to do that, I think it has to be done at the top of the game and then you would move on from that one.
[24:14.000 -> 24:20.000] To go back to that nature-nurture argument then, if we relate it to you as a player and then expand it out,
[24:20.000 -> 24:22.800] what would you say the percentage was?
[24:22.800 -> 24:37.600] I could wake up one day and tell you the percentage and think differently the next because I like to read about these sort of things and just to look at people and experiences you have with sports people, athletes, actually maybe in life and I can't give you that percentage.
[24:37.600 -> 24:43.800] I know that I didn't have the talent of a Neymar. I also know that I did have talents in terms of I could finish.
[24:43.800 -> 24:48.200] I think one of my biggest talents which I touched on early was being aware of the things I needed to do
[24:48.400 -> 24:51.540] You know, I was never the quickest so I knew I had to get going earlier
[24:51.540 -> 24:55.360] I knew I had to read when I was on the blind side of a midfielder to make the run and the more I did
[24:55.360 -> 25:00.360] It and the older I've got I got better at doing that. So I would probably say I'm quite heavy on the
[25:00.880 -> 25:06.840] Nurture, but I don't know what exactly what the percentage is. But haven't we just talked about 100% responsibility?
[25:06.840 -> 25:11.160] So what's the point in your mind of thinking, well, it's all about nature?
[25:11.160 -> 25:14.680] Because if you consider that all my success is down to nature, not nurture, or not down
[25:14.680 -> 25:17.380] to me, then you're kind of given up control.
[25:17.380 -> 25:21.520] And it's a difficult one, because even if your players have not had the upbringing that
[25:21.520 -> 25:27.720] you've had, and maybe they're not born with the same talents that you were born with, you still have to find a
[25:27.720 -> 25:32.760] way to get them to buy into this 100% responsibility. You're not responsible
[25:32.760 -> 25:37.760] for whether Mason Mount has a successful Chelsea career or not. Mason Mount is
[25:37.760 -> 25:39.840] successful for that and every other young player then.
[25:39.840 -> 25:44.920] Yeah, well they are of course but then I disagree with you. My view on that now
[25:44.920 -> 25:45.720] as a manager is that I
[25:45.720 -> 25:51.320] am responsible. The only way you can create an environment which looks like you're asking
[25:51.320 -> 25:55.920] for everyone to be 100% responsible is by them seeing that from yourself. I don't think
[25:55.920 -> 25:59.560] it's a problem to show weakness. I don't think it's a problem for me to try and prepare a
[25:59.560 -> 26:04.240] team for a week and work on a shape and then you come up and it doesn't work at the weekend
[26:04.240 -> 26:08.600] to almost be a bit open with the players and save maybe a few individual moments. I don't
[26:08.600 -> 26:15.520] mind that. I did my pro licence last year and I like to listen to coaches, even if it
[26:15.520 -> 26:20.400] was a coach that had a completely different philosophy to mine, long ball, back it long,
[26:20.400 -> 26:29.480] go on stats completely or whatever, whatever way it might be. If I can gain one nugget from that argument or that idea, that means I'm developing, and I know I need to
[26:29.480 -> 26:33.960] develop. For a young coach to come in and go, no, no, I know the game of football, I
[26:33.960 -> 26:37.760] know what it is, don't worry, I don't need to listen to that view, and also, if my players
[26:37.760 -> 26:41.800] don't produce, that's because they're not good enough, I'll need better players or something.
[26:41.800 -> 26:49.440] That kind of lazy argument is never going to get you anywhere. It's one of my things I really try and do is to look at myself every
[26:49.440 -> 26:52.680] day and go, what could I have done there? I can't blame the players for that performance.
[26:52.680 -> 26:56.760] I can't. And at moments, you'll sit down with reflection and of course you look at how the
[26:56.760 -> 27:01.320] squad looks, but I must make myself 100% culpable for Mason Mount as well.
[27:01.320 -> 27:03.840] Yeah. And would you admit that to them after a game?
[27:03.840 -> 27:05.220] I suppose I just had?
[27:05.220 -> 27:07.220] They're obviously gonna listen
[27:07.500 -> 27:10.180] But would you ever stand up in a dressing room and say lads?
[27:10.180 -> 27:13.320] I got I got that wrong because I sometimes think that you're only in
[27:13.740 -> 27:18.040] Very early stages of your management career if you're awesome denger or sir, Alex Ferguson
[27:18.040 -> 27:22.740] You might be far more comfortable again. You know what? I've had 20 years of being a manager. I got that wrong today
[27:23.020 -> 27:25.600] it feels like a
[27:31.900 -> 27:32.420] Braver maybe more dangerous thing for a really young manager to do because there is that constant battle
[27:37.200 -> 27:39.280] Early on to convince certain people that you're okay to be a man. I haven't done it in that way but I what I have done with individuals is
[27:39.940 -> 27:43.720] For instance, I know this year. I've not played players and I've wrestled with a
[27:44.240 -> 27:48.360] The selection problem decided not to play a player. We've not gone played players and I've sort of wrestled with the selection problem, decided not to play a player, but it's not gone so well.
[27:48.360 -> 27:49.920] And I've said to the player, that was a mistake.
[27:49.920 -> 27:51.560] I made a mistake not playing you there.
[27:51.560 -> 27:52.560] And little things like that.
[27:52.560 -> 27:53.800] I bet that's quite powerful actually.
[27:53.800 -> 27:58.320] Well, I like to think so because I kind of think what would I want to hear as a player?
[27:58.320 -> 28:04.640] And I think to have a good friend of mine recently told me, we were talking about communication
[28:04.640 -> 28:05.240] and he was
[28:05.240 -> 28:09.800] saying if you don't communicate, the wrong understanding will just contaminate that space
[28:09.800 -> 28:13.720] of not communicating. So if I drop that player, don't say a word, feel like it went wrong
[28:13.720 -> 28:18.560] myself, don't mention that to him and pick him or don't pick him next week. I've got
[28:18.560 -> 28:22.320] no idea of control about how he's going to take that. At least if I can go and say,
[28:22.320 -> 28:25.040] okay, yeah, you know what, I made a mistake there. I feel that.
[28:25.040 -> 28:26.240] And I feel you'll get something back there.
[28:26.240 -> 28:30.120] Whether you get a blank face, an angry face or whatever, those difficult conversations,
[28:30.120 -> 28:33.440] fortunately, are part of the course for me in the job I do.
[28:33.440 -> 28:37.160] But if I don't and take the easy out, which I have taken at times.
[28:37.160 -> 28:40.320] Last year at Derby, when I first got in, it was like, these difficult conversations, I'm
[28:40.320 -> 28:42.120] going to put that one off.
[28:42.120 -> 28:44.960] And maybe sometimes you still do, but generally, you've got to try and hit them as much as
[28:44.960 -> 28:45.480] you can.
[28:45.480 -> 28:51.680] What has been the single biggest thing you've learned in the couple of years you've been
[28:51.680 -> 28:52.680] a head coach?
[28:52.680 -> 28:57.720] There are so many things tactically so I won't touch on that because I think there is a big
[28:57.720 -> 29:03.500] part of that but probably that one of personal relationships with the players and the group
[29:03.500 -> 29:06.000] relationship you have with them. Trying to
[29:06.000 -> 29:12.960] strike that right balance. For me, a high-performing group, or our team, it has to be a balance
[29:12.960 -> 29:19.600] between being really positive but being slightly on edge. How positive can I be? I don't want
[29:19.600 -> 29:24.040] to sound like I'm just trying to be a cheerleader here and not see that we've lost two games
[29:24.040 -> 29:27.920] on the bounce. I can't just keep being positive. And when we're winning and it's
[29:27.920 -> 29:31.920] great, how can I keep them on edge so they don't think we're going to win every game
[29:31.920 -> 29:35.580] because I've seen that one before many times and then you lose the next. So I think I try
[29:35.580 -> 29:39.440] to create that kind of balance and I'm still striving for that. I still think a lot about
[29:39.440 -> 29:43.960] that and go over it myself and go, have I spoken to that player enough? Did he get what
[29:43.960 -> 29:45.240] I felt there? And
[29:45.240 -> 29:50.440] how can I help each individual? And I think you do have to keep analysing that one because
[29:50.440 -> 29:54.000] it's always different. But I think that's the thing I've learned that you can't neglect
[29:54.000 -> 29:58.520] that side of it and think I'm just going to be the master coach. Because I'm not. I'm
[29:58.520 -> 30:03.800] not the master coach and I'm not the great psychologist. But I'll do my best to do what
[30:03.800 -> 30:05.720] I can see in front of me and hopefully we'll get success
[30:05.720 -> 30:10.160] It sounds very much like we go back to that yin and yang of the way you were parented
[30:10.160 -> 30:12.920] Mm-hmm the hard message as well as the nurturing
[30:13.760 -> 30:17.120] support and encouragement. Mm-hmm. Yeah, which leads us to
[30:18.000 -> 30:21.900] there's a really interesting area that I want to explore with you this idea of
[30:22.680 -> 30:25.520] Family and how important family bonds are to you.
[30:25.520 -> 30:28.400] So when you speak about the West Ham experience,
[30:28.400 -> 30:33.600] it sounds that a large part of your emotion came from the fact that you felt betrayed.
[30:33.600 -> 30:36.000] You'd grown up in the East End family.
[30:36.000 -> 30:39.120] You'd be seen as a family club and yet they rejected you.
[30:40.160 -> 30:47.680] How do you think it's possible to create a family atmosphere at a club where you have those bonds, where you can be hard at times,
[30:47.680 -> 30:51.920] but you still have that relationship where people know that you've got their best interests at heart?
[30:51.920 -> 31:02.440] Yeah, I mean that's what I'm striving for. I mean, I agree, you're right, and the family thing with my nan lived round the corner from West Ham,
[31:02.440 -> 31:06.640] and I felt like, well I was a crazy young West Ham fan. When
[31:06.640 -> 31:13.920] it went the other way I questioned people. But then as you get older you realise you
[31:13.920 -> 31:17.200] will end up questioning people all your life no matter what you do. Everyone is different
[31:17.200 -> 31:19.160] and different circumstances.
[31:19.160 -> 31:23.720] I think probably to answer the question about now is just tackle what you've got in front
[31:23.720 -> 31:29.860] of you and you try and be there for your players. You try and be open with the players. You try and create
[31:29.860 -> 31:34.820] a togetherness between them as a group. That's hard because we play at the top of elite sport.
[31:34.820 -> 31:41.320] I've got 25 players, say, whatever our squad is at any time, and I can pick 11. And the
[31:41.320 -> 31:49.880] other ones generally probably don't like you on Saturday afternoon or whenever it is. It's the easy one after a win and I'll come out and speak afterwards with all the
[31:49.880 -> 31:53.440] players and go yeah you've got great team spirit here. And then when you lose you kind
[31:53.440 -> 31:56.620] of go, you know, all of a sudden you have to go, well there's a team spirit not so good
[31:56.620 -> 32:01.020] this week because you lost. So it's not like a simple one to say we've created a great
[32:01.020 -> 32:07.200] family atmosphere. That can only come at the right end when you've probably won it all or feel like you've achieved such great success
[32:07.200 -> 32:08.200] and then people put it together.
[32:08.200 -> 32:12.000] The building blocks for that are huge because it's a really easy thing to say
[32:12.000 -> 32:18.200] that to have the family feel in a really competitive, high-performance sport
[32:18.200 -> 32:23.000] is tough and takes a lot of work and it doesn't look like the ideal family.
[32:23.000 -> 32:24.000] It doesn't look like that.
[32:24.000 -> 32:28.560] Sure. But what would you say are the building blocks of doing that then?
[32:28.560 -> 32:33.160] Communication for sure. Making the message clear to the players of what you want from
[32:33.160 -> 32:38.560] them on the training pitch. Having an idea with the players that I want us to be a group
[32:38.560 -> 32:42.800] of good people as well as good players and a good team. I think you have to have respect
[32:42.800 -> 32:49.320] amongst each other. You definitely at the top of the club set that tone. That is definitely on me. I'm 100
[32:49.320 -> 32:54.520] per cent responsible for that one. You try and promote that regularly in how you train,
[32:54.520 -> 32:59.400] how you act and if you see things that you don't like within the group you have to act
[32:59.400 -> 33:00.400] upon them.
[33:00.400 -> 33:03.440] I don't want a beautiful family. I want players that can rely on each other when they go out
[33:03.440 -> 33:06.640] on the pitch. They're going to be tough and back each other up at the right moments.
[33:06.640 -> 33:09.040] And that, as I say, that doesn't look like the beautiful family.
[33:09.040 -> 33:09.760] And that's life.
[33:09.760 -> 33:14.640] You know, lots of things in my family, without going into detail, that are not perfection, that's life.
[33:14.640 -> 33:16.160] But you just try and do your best.
[33:16.160 -> 33:20.480] And how do you get the balance between having a close relationship with a player,
[33:20.480 -> 33:24.640] so that when the time is right, you can put your arm around them and tell them that you're there for them,
[33:24.640 -> 33:28.800] and at other times, making it clear that they are the players,
[33:28.800 -> 33:32.560] you are the manager and there is a big distinction there. I wonder whether that's something that
[33:32.560 -> 33:36.040] you've wrestled with particularly in your first year at Chelsea and probably at Derby
[33:36.040 -> 33:37.040] as well?
[33:37.040 -> 33:42.840] Yeah, I do wrestle with it a lot. I think you can do it. I think the idea of being straight
[33:42.840 -> 33:46.800] with a player always helps. Honestly it's a difficult
[33:46.800 -> 33:49.640] one because sometimes it's really hard to be honest because you can say things that
[33:49.640 -> 33:54.400] could really hurt the player if you wanted to be absolutely honest. But I think you can
[33:54.400 -> 33:58.480] be straight and be very caring in how you speak to the players. I think they'll accept
[33:58.480 -> 34:03.040] the good and the bad. They might walk off not liking you. They might go and tell someone
[34:03.040 -> 34:08.360] else I don't really like him so much or whatever. But I do think, because I have managers that I work for that at the time
[34:08.360 -> 34:12.840] I probably didn't have the best relationships with in my reactive way. Back in the day I
[34:12.840 -> 34:15.840] would have gone, I don't like him because he didn't pick me so much. Now I'm older,
[34:15.840 -> 34:20.720] I get it. I get the problems that they had trying to deal with me. So I try and sometimes
[34:20.720 -> 34:24.200] when you speak to the players, don't just try and be the cutting manager that's making
[34:24.200 -> 34:27.560] the decision. Give them maybe something, not a story, because they definitely don't want
[34:27.560 -> 34:31.880] to hear my stories all day, but give them an experience maybe or talk about a bigger
[34:31.880 -> 34:35.920] picture, maybe try and come from a different angle. I do think players sometimes respond
[34:35.920 -> 34:41.300] when you actually… I spoke to a player recently who was having a tough time playing and I
[34:41.300 -> 34:44.560] referred to tough times I had playing and I was understanding of the fact, because I
[34:44.560 -> 34:48.040] had many a tough time. I took my foot off the pedal sometimes, just played
[34:48.040 -> 34:52.500] bad in certain games, took criticism at times and as I say always come. So I think to try
[34:52.500 -> 34:57.240] and speak to the players in a pretty grown up way and explain that this is it means that
[34:57.240 -> 34:59.840] you can sell both sides, the good and the bad moments too.
[34:59.840 -> 35:06.700] And you spoke earlier about the way to communicate with people and I'm in complete agreement
[35:06.700 -> 35:10.220] with that because I think if you are doing your best and it comes from the heart and
[35:10.220 -> 35:16.020] you're doing it for the right reasons, you can never cause an issue by communicating.
[35:16.020 -> 35:20.100] And it's one of my frustrations, you know, my other job as a football presenter, you
[35:20.100 -> 35:24.820] know, I always want to speak to managers and particularly directors of football, people
[35:24.820 -> 35:28.280] who set the agenda at a club club people who decide on the culture of
[35:28.280 -> 35:32.760] a football club because when things go wrong they don't talk so people just
[35:32.760 -> 35:35.720] jump to conclusions and assume that they either don't care or they don't know
[35:35.720 -> 35:39.320] what they're doing and if they were able to come out and talk more openly and
[35:39.320 -> 35:44.400] explain why a certain move or a certain player or a certain situation hasn't
[35:44.400 -> 35:45.300] worked out positively
[35:45.300 -> 35:49.200] I think it would help them because people would realize oh they do care
[35:49.200 -> 35:54.960] They like everyone things just go wrong sometimes in life. I think as long as as a manager, you've got the best intentions
[35:55.180 -> 35:59.440] It's never the wrong thing to share how you truly feel with your players
[35:59.440 -> 36:01.560] And I wonder if that's something that's changed
[36:01.560 -> 36:05.280] You know when you were growing up managers were quite autonomous a lot of the time, weren't they in those days?
[36:05.280 -> 36:07.360] And they'd, this is my way or the highway.
[36:07.360 -> 36:16.800] And I think now, managers like you and Jurgen Klopp and Maurizio Pochettino, it's about taking those players with you on the journey, isn't it?
[36:16.800 -> 36:26.160] Yeah, I was interested when I listened to you speak with Pochettino, actually, because I think he mentioned, I'm pretty sure it was on your podcast, you mentioned about coming in with non-negotiables
[36:26.160 -> 36:27.000] as a manager.
[36:27.000 -> 36:29.320] And then realizing that you couldn't quite stick
[36:29.320 -> 36:30.300] to those non-negotiables.
[36:30.300 -> 36:31.460] And I absolutely got that,
[36:31.460 -> 36:33.560] because when you come into management
[36:33.560 -> 36:35.220] and you can have a really firm idea,
[36:35.220 -> 36:36.720] I will not accept somebody being late,
[36:36.720 -> 36:38.040] I will not accept it if they don't,
[36:38.040 -> 36:40.000] I will not accept that kind of performance.
[36:40.000 -> 36:41.160] And then when you come and you go,
[36:41.160 -> 36:43.700] oh, he's been late, but you need him at the weekend,
[36:43.700 -> 36:45.640] do you have to say it, Do you know what I mean?
[36:45.640 -> 36:47.920] And as a manager, you get probably about,
[36:47.920 -> 36:50.680] I don't know how many, but loads of them every day.
[36:50.680 -> 36:52.280] And if you come in with an iron fist
[36:52.280 -> 36:53.960] and you want to say, this is how I am,
[36:53.960 -> 36:55.760] almost to promote myself, I'm a young manager,
[36:55.760 -> 36:57.300] but don't worry, I'm really tough.
[36:57.300 -> 36:59.880] I think you're going to get players that go to, come on.
[36:59.880 -> 37:01.120] So, and that's not to say I don't have-
[37:01.120 -> 37:02.920] Don't you still need non-negotiables though?
[37:02.920 -> 37:03.760] Yes, you do.
[37:03.760 -> 37:07.000] What are your certain things that simply are not acceptable?
[37:07.000 -> 37:11.000] Work ethic on the training pitch, absolutely to have work ethic.
[37:11.000 -> 37:17.000] To not respect your team-mate, I suppose if you're out of the team and you don't support the group, that's absolutely...
[37:17.000 -> 37:21.000] I understand a sad face on the bench in terms of an angry face that want to play,
[37:21.000 -> 37:28.640] but to not be part of the group then, that's almost the start of the end if that develops. You can't accept that. We have rules. It was a big thing made
[37:28.640 -> 37:33.280] when we did our fine system at Chelsea because it was quite chunky. The numbers were big.
[37:33.280 -> 37:37.640] I kind of wanted to because I felt I'd been told about how things had been the year before
[37:37.640 -> 37:40.880] and I don't like people being late and all those things. But I'm also human and I get
[37:40.880 -> 37:45.200] it and there are loads of things around that you have to move on slightly
[37:45.200 -> 37:49.280] because this is life. It can't be one certain way. We all see things differently as we go
[37:49.280 -> 37:53.120] through it. I think what you try to do is lay down those rules because you want to give
[37:53.120 -> 37:57.120] the players a guideline of where you want to go to. Once they start to respect that
[37:57.120 -> 38:00.920] and you feel that, you can then move on to the next stage where you can say, OK, don't
[38:00.920 -> 38:04.680] forget them lads but they're there. What's the next thing? How can we get better on the
[38:04.680 -> 38:05.000] pitch which is clearly the most important thing? How can we get better on the pitch,
[38:05.000 -> 38:07.040] which is obviously clearly the most important thing.
[38:07.040 -> 38:09.240] And finding people for being one minute late
[38:09.240 -> 38:10.800] is not necessarily gonna make you better on the pitch.
[38:10.800 -> 38:12.000] So that's kind of,
[38:12.000 -> 38:14.000] I think those pieces are pretty movable at times.
[38:14.000 -> 38:16.240] There's the story that I'd read about
[38:16.240 -> 38:18.400] Mourinho following you into the showers
[38:18.400 -> 38:21.680] to tell you that you could be the best player in the world.
[38:21.680 -> 38:22.520] Yeah.
[38:23.360 -> 38:25.280] Would you do that to a player?
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[40:44.360 -> 40:58.280] mintmobile.com slash HPP. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply see Yeah, I would. It was exactly what I needed. It might look slightly different to how Jose
[40:58.280 -> 41:02.900] did it. I get asked about that moment a lot. What's really clear to me as I've got older
[41:02.900 -> 41:06.640] is that he knew I wasn't the best player in the world. Probably didn't think I was going to be the best player in
[41:06.640 -> 41:10.840] the world. But that doesn't mean that he was faking it or actually lying to me. I think
[41:10.840 -> 41:15.300] it was great man management. It definitely gave me the lift I needed at the time. Another
[41:15.300 -> 41:19.660] manager later on in my career did an absolute reverse of that conversation and it hit me
[41:19.660 -> 41:24.760] really hard as well. So I would certainly have a positive conversation like that. I
[41:24.760 -> 41:25.000] think the absolute beauty, and it obviously makes it better when you're storytelling, hard as well so I would certainly have a positive conversation like that I think
[41:25.000 -> 41:27.800] the absolute beauty and it's obviously makes it better when you're storytelling
[41:27.800 -> 41:31.160] because I keep getting asked about it is the fact that the image of him naked and
[41:31.160 -> 41:34.880] me naked like showering ourselves whilst having a quite an important conversation
[41:34.880 -> 41:38.320] but that was a beautiful thing as well that's what kind of let that made me
[41:38.320 -> 41:41.520] learn or think about in management is that not every conversation has to be
[41:41.520 -> 41:45.680] come into my office son and sit down I'm? Yeah, it was the way that it was.
[41:45.680 -> 41:48.260] So those conversations can be on the road,
[41:48.260 -> 41:49.940] on the side of the training pitch,
[41:49.940 -> 41:51.500] over a lunch, and those sort of things.
[41:51.500 -> 41:53.020] So I certainly would do.
[41:53.020 -> 41:55.300] The benefit of being absolutely positive
[41:55.300 -> 41:57.780] and telling a player how good they can be.
[41:57.780 -> 42:00.020] Sounds so simple, but why wouldn't you do that?
[42:00.020 -> 42:04.520] You played for a lot of different coaches over your career.
[42:04.520 -> 42:10.720] And you know that phrase that, for people lot of different coaches over your career and you know that phrase that for people outside of football is often used of when a coach loses a dressing room.
[42:10.720 -> 42:13.440] What do you understand by that then?
[42:13.440 -> 42:19.200] I've seen it many a time and I think the communication one is a big deal.
[42:19.200 -> 42:27.760] Like we keep coming back to it and it's interesting the more you talk about it because if a player or a group of players don't feel like they have something back from you for good or for
[42:27.760 -> 42:31.520] bad I think you start to lose, that space gets filled with the negativity that we talk
[42:31.520 -> 42:37.520] about. I think sometimes there's a blame thing in football where maybe it's at times, and
[42:37.520 -> 42:41.240] I've been involved in this again, where the group of players for some reason feel like
[42:41.240 -> 42:44.440] the manager is the one that's letting them down and then you start to feel that relationship
[42:44.440 -> 42:48.000] break down that way. And some of it I think is an unfortunate and it's quite a
[42:48.000 -> 42:51.440] cut and fraser isn't it? It sounds terrible. If I was a manager that you have that, you read that,
[42:51.440 -> 42:55.040] you'd be like oh my god that's really what I don't want, that's horrible. But I don't think it's as
[42:55.040 -> 42:59.440] simple as that always. I just think sometimes the balance between players and management or whatever
[42:59.440 -> 43:04.640] can break down somewhere along the line. So I think you can't walk in fear of that. I think you
[43:04.640 -> 43:05.440] have to work
[43:05.440 -> 43:09.960] as well as you can to try and communicate. Try and make the message clear. If you don't
[43:09.960 -> 43:13.760] have a clear message on and off the pitch, it's an easy excuse for players to go, I didn't
[43:13.760 -> 43:18.080] quite understand that. You can never assume that players expect that I come in and I want
[43:18.080 -> 43:20.600] to play a different way. That means switching the ball from one side of the pitch to the
[43:20.600 -> 43:25.240] other rather than short passes. I have to hammer that daily and train that way daily.
[43:25.240 -> 43:28.640] And then at the end, if I lose a dressing room when I've tried to do everything I can,
[43:28.640 -> 43:32.640] or lose a dressing room as that headline might say, I think you can probably walk away pretty
[43:32.640 -> 43:36.460] comfortable with it. But I think if you lose a dressing room where you haven't addressed
[43:36.460 -> 43:39.920] loads of issues with players, you've made it a bit negative, you're not the positive
[43:39.920 -> 43:43.000] face every morning and you come in and you're upset because they're not doing what you
[43:43.000 -> 43:47.720] think they should do, I think then as a manager you'd have to take that as a slant on yourself
[43:47.720 -> 43:51.480] and maybe accept you're going to lose people if you're not going to work in that way.
[43:51.480 -> 43:55.880] Have you become comfortable with the fact that football is a bit of a crazy world and
[43:55.880 -> 44:01.400] we've already touched on 100% responsibility in this podcast but you can take 100% responsibility,
[44:01.400 -> 44:05.080] you can do your very best job, but your success or your failure
[44:05.080 -> 44:09.680] is still dependent on the performances of other people. Have you become comfortable
[44:09.680 -> 44:14.440] with that fact or is it still one that you wrestle with a little bit?
[44:14.440 -> 44:18.440] It's one of the reasons I think management, there's a lot of reasons, is much more stressful
[44:18.440 -> 44:23.040] than playing. One of them is because as a player you have much more responsibility yourself
[44:23.040 -> 44:26.880] and that's it kind of thing. As long as you prepare right and play as well as you can, of course you want
[44:26.880 -> 44:31.880] to be a team player. As a manager your responsibility starts on Monday, finishes at the end of
[44:31.880 -> 44:35.800] the game on Saturday and then it just restarts for the next game all the time consistently.
[44:35.800 -> 44:39.080] And you know that whatever you do in the week, I've had games this year where I feel like
[44:39.080 -> 44:42.800] I prepared as well as I possibly could. That's great. I know what we're playing against,
[44:42.800 -> 44:47.720] the patterns weren't right, the shape of the team's good, my selection feels right and you lose. I've had runs where
[44:47.720 -> 44:51.340] it didn't feel good in the week and then you win. I know that's life generally a little
[44:51.340 -> 44:56.840] bit but there is a lot of businesses out there that you can actually have markers towards
[44:56.840 -> 44:59.480] getting to where you want to get to if you feel like you're doing the right things and
[44:59.480 -> 45:03.240] then probably at the end of the year you can go, yeah we succeeded because look where our
[45:03.240 -> 45:08.120] stock's gone up or look where that's ended up. Football doesn't work that way. It's very important you reflect
[45:08.120 -> 45:12.280] at the end of a season and look at how well you thought you did. But you have to understand
[45:12.280 -> 45:15.640] that there's that crazy element that you talk about. You can't rely on it, it can't be an
[45:15.640 -> 45:18.960] excuse because if I keep saying, like I mentioned earlier, if I want to blame the players then
[45:18.960 -> 45:23.320] I might as well forget about it because I have to take the responsibility completely.
[45:23.320 -> 45:25.480] It's why football is stressful on the line.
[45:25.480 -> 45:29.840] Some days you feel like you've done everything right and it's not happening on match day.
[45:29.840 -> 45:31.960] That's one of the unfortunate parts of the job.
[45:31.960 -> 45:36.040] It's also a recruitment business because every business in the world is a recruitment business.
[45:36.040 -> 45:40.680] Whether you're running a shop, running a factory or running a football club. As long as you
[45:40.680 -> 45:45.760] get recruitment right, you should be okay. I'm not talking about getting the best
[45:45.760 -> 45:51.040] players, I'm talking about getting the right players. How do you judge what is the right
[45:51.040 -> 45:55.680] player for you at Chelsea? What are the things you look for before you decide, yep, he's the man for
[45:55.680 -> 45:56.000] me?
[45:56.000 -> 46:00.480] Well you have to look at it in the context of the squad that you have. I had a long year to look
[46:00.480 -> 46:04.880] at it as I got to Chelsea because we couldn't bring anyone in. We had some loans that came back,
[46:04.880 -> 46:08.500] but they were normally pretty young and they'd come from the Championship.
[46:08.500 -> 46:12.400] So I've had a long look at it this year. In football terms it has to be joined up.
[46:12.400 -> 46:17.540] You need to have the club and yourself and the scouts and people around you hopefully
[46:17.540 -> 46:18.540] pointing in the same direction.
[46:18.540 -> 46:21.860] We haven't even touched on the challenge of managing up to a board or a chief exec or
[46:21.860 -> 46:22.860] anything.
[46:22.860 -> 46:26.960] Yeah and you have to do it. It's one of the, almost step one on the coaching badges, managing
[46:26.960 -> 46:31.520] up is a huge thing that they talk about. I think every manager in the Premier League
[46:31.520 -> 46:36.680] or in football will have different experiences of that managing up and so they all look different.
[46:36.680 -> 46:40.000] You have to look at the balance of the squad and think where do we need to improve. That's
[46:40.000 -> 46:45.320] clearly a huge thing. And then you go through the process of looking around and
[46:45.320 -> 46:49.560] what kind of profile you're looking at depending on what position it may be, what do I want
[46:49.560 -> 46:53.800] my team to be, do I want them to be physically great, do I want them to be really technically
[46:53.800 -> 46:56.520] great somewhere in the middle. And you're obviously going to then recruit players along
[46:56.520 -> 46:59.800] the basis of those lines. That's what your job is as a manager. That's why most managers
[46:59.800 -> 47:04.880] will come in and go, can I make two or three sign-ins with my vision because it will help
[47:04.880 -> 47:05.280] affect this team. Because they're the type of players we want to bring in. And I didn't come in and go can I make two or three signings with my vision because it will help affect
[47:05.280 -> 47:08.840] this team. They are the type of players we want to bring in. I didn't have that in year
[47:08.840 -> 47:12.740] one at Chelsea. Now hopefully we will see in year two that I can bring that to the team
[47:12.740 -> 47:16.180] to help it. So when I can stand up and talk about my team I can say yeah it is quick and
[47:16.180 -> 47:19.660] pacey and lots of energy. Because look we work hard on the training pitch, it is always
[47:19.660 -> 47:22.640] rule number one. But the players we bring in are taking us in that direction and they
[47:22.640 -> 47:27.840] are improving us. So I think that process of recruitment is really, really tough but I think it's pretty
[47:27.840 -> 47:30.760] simple when you want to break it down like that. They have to improve you, they have
[47:30.760 -> 47:33.920] to go along with the idea of where you want to go with the team and then they have to
[47:33.920 -> 47:35.160] be good people and good influences.
[47:35.160 -> 47:36.680] How do you judge that though?
[47:36.680 -> 47:42.840] You do as much as you can in terms of looking at the, you know, this is not brand new for
[47:42.840 -> 47:45.400] me today but the scouting system is not just looking at players
[47:45.400 -> 47:48.240] now they are actually looking at their life, their social media.
[47:48.240 -> 47:51.280] When you say a good person how would you define that?
[47:51.280 -> 47:56.400] I want them to be players that want to come and improve and feel like they play for Chelsea,
[47:56.400 -> 48:00.400] feel like they want to help us and be successful and be part of a team.
[48:00.400 -> 48:03.560] They will obviously come with a selfish demeanour, I don't want the perfect team mate, that sounds
[48:03.560 -> 48:04.560] too corny.
[48:04.560 -> 48:06.720] They have to be a good team mate of course but they want to come with a selfish demeanour. I don't want the perfect team mate, that sounds too corny. They have to be a good team mate, of course. But they want
[48:06.720 -> 48:10.360] to come and actually be good for themselves, whatever their motive might be. They might
[48:10.360 -> 48:14.080] want to play for Real Madrid in four years' time, that's just life. But when they come
[48:14.080 -> 48:17.960] to Chelsea, I want them to come and be straight into the team and want to work and be hungry
[48:17.960 -> 48:22.440] and come in and want to win and not cause problems and not be badly selfish. It's all
[48:22.440 -> 48:25.960] about me. I want someone who wants to do well, because I want to be part of a winning team.
[48:25.960 -> 48:27.720] It sounds easy, it's really easy to say,
[48:27.720 -> 48:29.640] because you never know until you actually get them through the door,
[48:29.640 -> 48:32.120] but you can learn quite a lot by a phone call,
[48:32.120 -> 48:33.480] a face-to-face meeting,
[48:33.480 -> 48:35.160] a talk with someone that's worked with them before.
[48:35.160 -> 48:37.360] You can do as, you have to do as much as you can.
[48:37.360 -> 48:40.680] I think you're in a really interesting stage of your career,
[48:40.680 -> 48:42.000] coming into Chelsea, Frank,
[48:42.000 -> 48:44.440] because you see a pattern emerging
[48:44.440 -> 48:46.000] through a lot of sort of coaching careers i Chelsea Frank, oherwydd rydych chi'n gweld pattern yn dod o'r ffyrdd o
[48:46.000 -> 48:48.000] gyrfaoedd ymgyrchu, y byddwch chi'n mynd i'r
[48:48.000 -> 48:50.000] stage o ddiddordeb cyntaf
[48:50.000 -> 48:52.000] lle rydych chi'n dod
[48:52.000 -> 48:54.000] ac yna mae pobl yn dechrau gwneud pethau yn wahanol
[48:54.000 -> 48:56.000] ac yna rydych chi'n dod i'r stage o
[48:56.000 -> 48:58.000] gyrfaoedd ymgyrchu, yna yw
[48:58.000 -> 49:00.000] yng nghynghori chwaraeon ffotbol, dyna lle mae'r mwyaf o gynghorwyr yn cael
[49:00.000 -> 49:02.000] y ssac a ddod i mewn i
[49:02.000 -> 49:04.000] y dechrau, ond
[49:04.000 -> 49:05.040] mae cymdeithasol yn eich anodd i ddod trwy'r cymdeithas ymgyrchu, and they bring somebody in to go back to the start and yet sustained success
[49:05.040 -> 49:09.360] requires you to get through that messy middle to then start to make
[49:09.360 -> 49:14.940] progress to where you are. So looking at your career now you're about to
[49:14.940 -> 49:20.160] enter the messy middle stage of that second season. So what problems
[49:20.160 -> 49:22.700] do you anticipate are likely to come your way?
[49:22.700 -> 49:26.360] I agree with you and I think you have to be understanding that you're coming to the messy
[49:26.360 -> 49:30.880] patch because you have to accept that. I think our messy patch probably happened actually
[49:30.880 -> 49:34.080] back end of the season. I think we achieved a lot this season because nobody expects us
[49:34.080 -> 49:37.680] to come in the top four but we lost the cup final and then we lost to Bayern Munich and
[49:37.680 -> 49:43.200] it's a bitter taste for me. I go away and I have a bad feeling about those games. So
[49:43.200 -> 49:45.400] I understand that those issues and problems will
[49:45.400 -> 49:51.000] come again next year. I and we as staff have to double down. We have to work harder. We
[49:51.000 -> 49:55.360] have to analyse why we conceded 50 goals this year and not just me saying it's because of
[49:55.360 -> 49:59.220] him and he could have done better. What could I have done to do better? The messy patch
[49:59.220 -> 50:04.800] is always going to come. Even if you're Liverpool now, who this year were absolutely incredible,
[50:04.800 -> 50:05.460] I'm sure
[50:05.460 -> 50:09.200] Jürgen Klopp's not had his feet up for the last three weeks going, okay, great players
[50:09.200 -> 50:12.420] we've got, we're just going to kill it again next year. It will be where's next. So my
[50:12.420 -> 50:16.700] version of that has to be how can I keep going and improving and be ready for the messy patch.
[50:16.700 -> 50:21.660] Q. But a club like Chelsea where there is a big turnover of coaches that you've experienced
[50:21.660 -> 50:30.040] through your time, how do you manage upwards to make sure you get that patience to know that the pattern is going to be turbulent at some stage?
[50:30.040 -> 50:33.640] How do you ensure you get the patience to keep faith with you to get through it?
[50:33.640 -> 50:38.000] That's not an easy answer. I think you can just do your job as well as you can. We've
[50:38.000 -> 50:41.440] come back to communicating again. I certainly think communicating upwards is a good thing
[50:41.440 -> 50:47.940] because when your tough times come, and it's to obviously send an email and make a phone call after a great win because it's the easiest
[50:47.940 -> 50:52.000] call ever. But after a loss if you then go quiet and you're not really explaining. And
[50:52.000 -> 50:56.880] I understand that. If I was an owner of a club and I'm watching and I go, okay, so let's
[50:56.880 -> 51:00.000] feel, let's see what his reaction is going to be, what's the team next week and all these
[51:00.000 -> 51:03.240] things. I think if you can communicate I think it certainly helps that relationship. Whether
[51:03.240 -> 51:08.620] it buys you time or not, I don't know. But I can't get too far ahead of myself. I can't
[51:08.620 -> 51:13.080] talk about two or three year plans too much. I may say it to the media sometimes because
[51:13.080 -> 51:17.160] I think it's a good thing to lay out there. But at the same time I'm very aware at a club
[51:17.160 -> 51:22.240] like Chelsea that even though we had a transfer ban, even though the year was difficult, expectations
[51:22.240 -> 51:25.840] are going to go up hugely next year. I just have to accept that as part of the job
[51:25.840 -> 51:27.680] and try and go about my job as well as I can.
[51:27.680 -> 51:30.140] And if I am having relationships which mean managing up
[51:30.140 -> 51:31.640] or managing around me,
[51:31.640 -> 51:32.980] I have to be as good as I can with those
[51:32.980 -> 51:33.900] because they're all important.
[51:33.900 -> 51:34.900] Because the tough time will come
[51:34.900 -> 51:36.800] and I'll rely on all those little ones.
[51:36.800 -> 51:38.160] And that might not just be managing up,
[51:38.160 -> 51:40.200] that might be managing the kit man
[51:40.200 -> 51:42.640] or a member of staff around you
[51:42.640 -> 51:46.120] because I've seen how the dominoes can fall very quickly
[51:46.120 -> 51:50.760] And I think if you isolate yourself as a manager or you don't want to open yourself up to
[51:50.920 -> 51:54.600] To all those relationships along the way I think they they feel much quicker
[51:54.600 -> 51:55.100] Yeah
[51:55.100 -> 52:00.960] It comes back to understanding doesn't it and it's a hard one because as the manager you're kind of the scratching post at that football
[52:00.960 -> 52:02.800] club for everyone with an issue from
[52:02.800 -> 52:07.680] You know someone like the kit man right up to Roman Abramovich at the top but you know particularly
[52:07.680 -> 52:11.080] when it comes to managing up and lots of business people listen to this podcast
[52:11.080 -> 52:15.280] to get decent takeaways for their own business life and a lot of them will
[52:15.280 -> 52:20.080] manage up as well. You need to understand don't you what Marina is going through
[52:20.080 -> 52:23.200] what Roman is going through not just from a Chelsea perspective but from
[52:23.200 -> 52:29.000] their personal lives and their own challenges that they have on a daily basis as well and what Frank Lampard
[52:29.000 -> 52:32.080] wants is not the be all and end all of Chelsea Football Club always.
[52:32.080 -> 52:37.560] Yeah, I mean it's one of the biggest things I noticed about going from Derby, which is
[52:37.560 -> 52:42.320] a big club, a championship club, and going to Chelsea which is a Champions League club.
[52:42.320 -> 52:45.840] It's bigger, the network is huge, the training
[52:45.840 -> 52:50.360] ground is huge, I walk from my office down to the canteen, there's four, five, six offices
[52:50.360 -> 52:53.600] with people doing different work, more numbers, more people.
[52:53.600 -> 52:56.840] When I realised that Derby was actually pretty easy for relationships because there weren't
[52:56.840 -> 53:01.040] so many people, and now when you walk into Chelsea I think I can walk in with an idea,
[53:01.040 -> 53:05.340] okay, I think this is how, in my opinion, how medical should work, how the loan department
[53:05.340 -> 53:07.500] should work, how recruitment should work,
[53:07.500 -> 53:08.580] and all these things.
[53:08.580 -> 53:10.740] And if I walk in and think I can actually make everyone
[53:10.740 -> 53:13.760] think the same as I think, I don't think I'm gonna do that
[53:13.760 -> 53:15.620] in two seconds, and I think that's coming back
[53:15.620 -> 53:17.000] to that sort of non-negotiable thing.
[53:17.000 -> 53:19.000] I have to go in, and even if I don't quite agree
[53:19.000 -> 53:21.220] or don't quite like it, I have to work with people.
[53:21.220 -> 53:22.540] I don't have to like them, they don't have to like me
[53:22.540 -> 53:24.780] that much, but they have to respect me in the workplace.
[53:24.780 -> 53:27.760] So I noticed that Chelsea was huge, I don't have to like them, they don't have to like me that much but they have to respect me in the workplace. So I noticed that Chelsea was huge and on
[53:27.760 -> 53:33.800] a bad day it's easy to go in and kind of ignore some of those officers because we've lost.
[53:33.800 -> 53:38.120] You have to open up all those conversations so it's not just managing up, it's understanding
[53:38.120 -> 53:42.760] how the analyst feels maybe. We've got a great analysis team in that. How they feel if we
[53:42.760 -> 53:47.840] have a loss and they might feel a little bit Responsibility unless you go and speak to them about that and take on responsibility yourself
[53:48.080 -> 53:53.580] Then you have a little bridge burn there. I'm guessing in lots of industries. That will be a similar thing
[53:53.580 -> 53:58.080] You cannot go anything. I know everything and I'm because I'm the manager you will all play to my tune
[53:58.080 -> 54:02.200] I know I'm very open to to understanding trying to understand whatever it doesn't mean I have to agree
[54:02.200 -> 54:06.080] But I'll try and understand I've learned that a lot this year from the difference of being
[54:06.080 -> 54:07.080] at Derby.
[54:07.080 -> 54:10.760] Who coaches you?
[54:10.760 -> 54:17.880] My staff definitely. I'm very open with the staff that I have. I like to throw things
[54:17.880 -> 54:21.240] out there. Some days I'll come in and say I've thought about it last night and this
[54:21.240 -> 54:27.160] is how I want us to train today. Bl blasted their ideas and their opinions and so sometimes you get things back that help you become a
[54:27.160 -> 54:32.360] better coach, clearly because you trust in them. I don't go searching for conversations.
[54:32.360 -> 54:35.440] I always get asked this, do you speak to Jose Mourinho, do you speak to Harry Redknapp,
[54:35.440 -> 54:39.320] do you speak to... I had those conversations if I had respectfully but I don't go searching
[54:39.320 -> 54:43.640] for that. I feel like I'm taking responsibility by just trying to learn day by day. So if
[54:43.640 -> 54:45.720] I can become a better coach, I think it's up
[54:45.720 -> 54:48.240] It's up to me. It's up to me to be open and take in things
[54:48.240 -> 54:53.500] What about at home with your wife Christine because she's not working. She definitely coaches
[54:53.500 -> 54:54.480] She's not there you go
[54:54.480 -> 54:58.640] because I don't think you have to just come from a football background to be able to give advice because
[54:58.920 -> 55:04.680] Your entire life as soon as you arrive at Cobham or at Stanford Bridge is only about personal relationships
[55:04.680 -> 55:08.360] It doesn't matter what walk of life you're from it if you know how to deal with those and I'm sure she yeah
[55:08.360 -> 55:10.600] I'm very fortunate that one Jake and you know
[55:10.600 -> 55:15.600] I might give you a great headline out of this podcast if one of the papers Nick this but because I do
[55:16.200 -> 55:20.760] Throw a lot of things off Christine and it's not she's not like picking what fullback we're gonna apply the weekend
[55:20.800 -> 55:26.320] But at the same time if I have certain issues, which are lifey issues, or, and actually football issues sometimes,
[55:26.320 -> 55:27.860] I can definitely go home.
[55:27.860 -> 55:28.700] I'm fortunate to have that,
[55:28.700 -> 55:30.920] because I think she's very work-orientated.
[55:30.920 -> 55:33.040] She's had a really good career in what she does,
[55:33.040 -> 55:35.700] and I really, I obviously love her very much,
[55:35.700 -> 55:38.080] but I really respect her for how she's got on
[55:38.080 -> 55:40.240] in her career and works, and how diligent she is.
[55:40.240 -> 55:43.360] Like, when we're at home, and she's been working recently
[55:43.360 -> 55:46.540] doing a TV program, early morning one, and we're sitting, and I'm doing my patterns at night, we've got a young baby there, and she's been working recently doing a TV program early morning one and we're saying and I'm doing my
[55:46.540 -> 55:49.720] Patterns at night. We've got a young baby there and she's doing her notes at night
[55:49.720 -> 55:52.260] I think I've seen history recently what's in there for two hours?
[55:52.260 -> 55:56.080] Yeah, and we can look at each other and go we really expect to be in this position
[55:56.080 -> 55:59.480] Is this really we haven't spoken for a while because we're working away. Yeah, don't get me wrong
[55:59.480 -> 56:00.480] We have lots of downtime
[56:00.480 -> 56:26.880] But I love the fact that I have somebody there that gets work in environments and I love to bounce because it's a different view Yeah, it's a different opinion. I can get bogged down. I spend so much time on Cobham a this problem, I've got a player here and he didn't turn up for training yesterday but he'll still probably need him at the weekend. What do you think, she might go, has he got
[56:26.880 -> 56:30.200] a girlfriend, wife, is there a problem, have you spoken to them? Maybe you should speak
[56:30.200 -> 56:35.200] to them and I'm like yeah, you know, so she's not my life coach as such but I'm very fortunate
[56:35.200 -> 56:37.240] to have someone to bounce things off at home.
[56:37.240 -> 56:40.600] And please don't take this the wrong way, take it in the spirit in which it's intended
[56:40.600 -> 56:45.000] right, you're only a football manager, right? Yeah.
[56:45.000 -> 56:49.440] Whereas she looks at this without all the baggage you carry of football being this huge
[56:49.440 -> 56:53.120] business in this great world and the happiness of thousands of people is reliant upon you
[56:53.120 -> 56:54.120] doing a good job, right?
[56:54.120 -> 56:58.640] The fact that she isn't in that probably makes her a better person to give you advice than
[56:58.640 -> 57:02.920] going to Jodie Morris, who I know is a brilliant assistant for you.
[57:02.920 -> 57:06.320] Sometimes it's better maybe for Christine, who's's not in that world to give you the advice.
[57:06.320 -> 57:10.520] Definitely, you're right I've got great staff, Jodie Morris, Joe Edwards, Chris Jones who
[57:10.520 -> 57:12.120] are my close staff.
[57:12.120 -> 57:13.320] It's more rounded from her.
[57:13.320 -> 57:18.480] And yeah it's more rounded and again I appreciate you can become, not bogged down but it's the
[57:18.480 -> 57:22.000] same message and we sit for hours at work talking obviously planning and discussing
[57:22.000 -> 57:25.020] things, but to come on that rounded rounded like Christian has a bit of a joke
[57:25.020 -> 57:29.560] You know with me at home when we're watching football constantly all the time and she's like it's almost fed up and you know
[57:29.560 -> 57:31.920] I'm talking football and a conversation pretty comes with boring
[57:31.920 -> 57:37.120] And she she does reflect on the fact that it's only kicking a ball and it's only like a game and she's not
[57:37.360 -> 57:45.960] Criticizing on that point. She's almost like you're becoming really really intense about this and maybe not seeing a bit of clarity in this instance ac yn eithaf agored am hyn, efallai nad ydych chi'n gweld ychydig o glir yma,
[57:45.960 -> 57:47.240] pan yw'n rhaid i chi edrych arno,
[57:47.240 -> 57:49.400] ac mae'n chwarae, ac rydych chi'n deall y bobl.
[57:49.400 -> 57:51.200] Ac dyna'r peth pwysicaf, mewn gwirionedd.
[57:51.200 -> 57:53.140] Mae'n ddim, mae llawer mwy i'w wneud, wrth gwrs,
[57:53.140 -> 57:54.560] ond i gyd, i ddod yn ôl i hynny,
[57:54.560 -> 57:56.400] mae'n rhaid i chi ddeall beth yw.
[57:56.400 -> 57:57.760] Weld, ond mae hynny'n fy nhygymryd
[57:57.760 -> 58:00.200] y dywedwch chi eich bod yn eithaf maeopig,
[58:00.200 -> 58:02.080] oherwydd, eto,
[58:02.080 -> 58:04.720] os ydych chi'n mynd yn ôl i'ch defnydd o'ch defnydd,
[58:04.720 -> 58:06.440] aeth i ysgol a'n ymwneud â'r hollbwysig Because again, like if you go back to your early childhood, you went to a school that was
[58:07.000 -> 58:11.120] Preaching more about being a rounded individual, you know again reading in your books
[58:11.120 -> 58:15.600] You say that you take a real interest in politics and and life outside of football
[58:15.600 -> 58:22.160] Hmm, do you feel that football management is sort of making you that way more myopic or the art?
[58:22.640 -> 58:25.400] It's a nature of the job of it's you that's there
[58:25.400 -> 58:29.060] No, I think I think well, I think I'm changing anyway, but it's definitely changed me
[58:29.060 -> 58:32.440] I mean simple things like my interest in politics
[58:32.440 -> 58:37.320] I the year I worked in the media spent a lot of time with Jake and I used to like read
[58:37.940 -> 58:44.340] Certain newspapers read articles read different kind of books. I don't don't I've just started watching a couple of Netflix recently
[58:44.340 -> 58:49.040] But I haven't watched Netflix and I like interesting things, I can watch you give me,
[58:49.040 -> 58:53.760] and I came away from that a lot and I've just watched football and I sit and do patterns and
[58:53.760 -> 58:59.440] plan training and talk football and I think for your own health actually and for sometimes a bit
[58:59.440 -> 59:04.480] of balance certainly in your life, lockdown actually brought that back to me a little bit.
[59:04.480 -> 59:09.480] It was really nice to not go game, game, game, game, game for a period and reflect and think and talk about different things.
[59:09.640 -> 59:14.760] You do have to be obsessive. You do have to work pretty much every bloody hour you can to try.
[59:14.760 -> 59:15.260] Do you?
[59:15.260 -> 59:20.640] Yeah, you do. You do because I think otherwise everybody would be like Pep Guardiola. It's not like that.
[59:20.640 -> 59:28.460] He's the best and Jurgen Klopp are the best, Pochettino had great success because of the input from them themselves. I can't sit here and say what is high performance
[59:28.460 -> 59:32.480] and say well hard work and then come away from that. It has to be there in a huge sense
[59:32.480 -> 59:34.340] but I'm just talking about more balance there.
[59:34.340 -> 59:38.780] But I'd say like when you read about someone like Guardiola that one of his best friends
[59:38.780 -> 59:43.820] is a poet and a playwright, you know, like he's got, he does seem to have a rounded friendship
[59:43.820 -> 59:48.480] group that it isn't just all about football with him and I'm just interestedwright, you know, like he's got, he does seem to have a rounded friendship group that it isn't just all about football with him and I'm just
[59:48.480 -> 59:52.120] interested that, you know, like again reading that you say you've got
[59:52.120 -> 59:56.400] friends that work in the city, friends that do a variety of jobs.
[59:56.400 -> 01:00:00.400] They're not poets, they can drink about 10 pints in an evening easily.
[01:00:00.400 -> 01:00:07.920] But I'm surprised that you think you have to be an obsessive about it. I think you can be both
[01:00:07.920 -> 01:00:12.960] I think you can be both. I've read a few books on Pep Guardiola and it's time in by Munich and
[01:00:13.280 -> 01:00:15.780] He became obsessive about the system
[01:00:15.780 -> 01:00:20.480] He was struggling in the beginning to get it and there was no stories of him sitting up through the night through the night and all
[01:00:20.480 -> 01:00:23.900] These things and this was pre management for me when I read this and I was like, wow
[01:00:23.900 -> 01:00:30.080] That's like that's intense and I understand why this fella is as good as he is. Because without that detail
[01:00:30.080 -> 01:00:34.960] you can't get to where you want to be. Not in the modern day. The old days of the great
[01:00:34.960 -> 01:00:38.760] Liverpool team of the 80s, and I hear pundits say this sometimes, we used to have five-a-side
[01:00:38.760 -> 01:00:42.200] every day, we used to move the ball so quick, we were a great team. That cannot be done
[01:00:42.200 -> 01:00:48.080] anymore. It cannot be done on that level. You need to be absolutely on point in terms of detail because otherwise someone else will
[01:00:48.080 -> 01:00:51.640] be. And the adage of you can't blame your players will be a very true one. Yes, of course
[01:00:51.640 -> 01:00:55.640] you need good players. Absolutely you need good players. But if you don't have that detail
[01:00:55.640 -> 01:01:01.080] and everyone will have their ways of, you know my friend's a poet, I read about Pep
[01:01:01.080 -> 01:01:08.000] Guardiola speaking with people who play chess and loving people who play for that kind of different angle and those sort of things I really respect. I do
[01:01:08.000 -> 01:01:12.800] search for those kind of things but when it comes back down to it I do feel it's the input
[01:01:12.800 -> 01:01:16.200] of how much you want to work around your team to be better that is going to define your
[01:01:16.200 -> 01:01:17.200] management.
[01:01:17.200 -> 01:01:18.760] Does burnout concern you Dan?
[01:01:18.760 -> 01:01:23.360] Yes, I think I can see it. I can see it. I read Jürgen Klopp the other day talking about
[01:01:23.360 -> 01:01:26.560] he may take time off. Luckily enough
[01:01:26.560 -> 01:01:31.760] he can absolutely choose when that is and he may enjoy that and may not come back. I
[01:01:31.760 -> 01:01:36.680] get that thought process. I get burnout from the idea of the manager. I get it from the
[01:01:36.680 -> 01:01:40.240] idea of the message from the players up to the manager. You hear about great managers
[01:01:40.240 -> 01:01:48.840] and teams that have a three or four year cycle. I understand that from both sides. I think this job we're in is so intense and there's so much expectation and pressure that
[01:01:48.840 -> 01:01:53.960] I think you burn out Canby and I think you need to take every moment you can to recharge
[01:01:53.960 -> 01:01:57.960] within the year. I understand managers that want to take time away from it.
[01:01:57.960 -> 01:01:58.960] Why do it then?
[01:01:58.960 -> 01:02:06.040] I do love it. When I had my year off it was the most beautiful thing to do because I was
[01:02:06.040 -> 01:02:11.120] very intense as a player on myself for a long time and I needed to break away from that.
[01:02:11.120 -> 01:02:14.840] But then I had a burning desire to get back in. I have a burning desire to try and be
[01:02:14.840 -> 01:02:18.440] the best I can be at what I do. I'm lucky I do love football and I want to be the best
[01:02:18.440 -> 01:02:22.360] I can be in it. So if you took it away from me tomorrow and that's always possible in
[01:02:22.360 -> 01:02:25.000] this game, I'd miss it. I know that for sure.
[01:02:25.000 -> 01:02:26.000] I love doing it.
[01:02:26.000 -> 01:02:38.000] How are you getting on with the advice from your mum?
[01:02:38.000 -> 01:02:41.320] I'm okay with it.
[01:02:41.320 -> 01:02:42.320] You mentioned Christine.
[01:02:42.320 -> 01:02:44.320] I've got a fantastic supportive wife.
[01:02:44.320 -> 01:02:49.560] I've got three daughters. one relatively young and two older.
[01:02:49.560 -> 01:02:53.760] We've all just been away for a few days in the break that we've had. Those are moments
[01:02:53.760 -> 01:03:00.360] that are just brilliant for me and come away from. Be kind to yourself. Maybe it sounds
[01:03:00.360 -> 01:03:04.000] a bit like a false motto now but I do have to have time. When you've got good people
[01:03:04.000 -> 01:03:06.440] around you and you look at your daughters and my wife,
[01:03:06.440 -> 01:03:08.400] and then those are the moments that I can be in.
[01:03:08.400 -> 01:03:09.640] I'm in work mode a lot.
[01:03:09.640 -> 01:03:10.640] I'm in work mode a lot.
[01:03:10.640 -> 01:03:11.680] I can't change that.
[01:03:11.680 -> 01:03:13.360] Christine snags me out of it sometimes
[01:03:13.360 -> 01:03:15.760] with our own personal moments.
[01:03:15.760 -> 01:03:16.880] I try and enjoy them.
[01:03:16.880 -> 01:03:18.040] And I do enjoy them.
[01:03:18.040 -> 01:03:19.200] So I try, I do enjoy them.
[01:03:19.200 -> 01:03:20.320] That's why it's important, I think,
[01:03:20.320 -> 01:03:22.720] to have people around you that nourish you
[01:03:22.720 -> 01:03:24.760] away from the world that you're in.
[01:03:24.760 -> 01:03:25.400] And you have to be quite ruthless
[01:03:25.400 -> 01:03:32.080] I think sometimes reaffirmed and spoke about this. I'm Robin van Persie about cutting away the drains and only leaving the fountains
[01:03:32.080 -> 01:03:33.040] Yeah
[01:03:33.040 -> 01:03:34.280] I've a lot with that joke
[01:03:34.280 -> 01:03:39.700] I mean I in my phone and my messages and sometimes you get a lot of people messaging and different things and it's not all
[01:03:39.700 -> 01:03:40.640] Negative, it's not of course
[01:03:40.640 -> 01:03:44.140] It's not like I've got friends that I don't see as much as I used to and all that thing and that's not
[01:03:44.480 -> 01:03:47.040] Like the cut loose I heard Robin Van Persie and he was talking
[01:03:47.040 -> 01:03:51.240] about specific reasons I think he moved away which helped his career. I generally don't
[01:03:51.240 -> 01:03:55.240] have the time the way I work at the moment now and I feel bad sometimes and I'll try
[01:03:55.240 -> 01:03:58.920] and find the time. You have to put things on hold. But the inner circle and the tight
[01:03:58.920 -> 01:04:03.080] people around you, yeah you have to rely on really good people because this job is extreme
[01:04:03.080 -> 01:04:05.120] in terms of football and it takes a lot out of you
[01:04:05.120 -> 01:04:07.120] And I'm very lucky that I can have
[01:04:07.320 -> 01:04:11.760] The wife that tells me to snap out of it in a good way and we go on and have a date night and a dinner
[01:04:11.760 -> 01:04:14.160] Or we do something different those those things are great
[01:04:14.160 -> 01:04:19.920] And then I have to not talk about football for two or three hours, and that's it. That's the balance you try and strike
[01:04:20.320 -> 01:04:23.960] We're going to move on to our quickfire questions in just a second
[01:04:23.960 -> 01:04:27.640] But before we get to those just a final one about you your daughter Patricia
[01:04:27.640 -> 01:04:33.920] Who's how old two years old to nearly so nearly two of all the things you've learned and all the journey you've been on
[01:04:34.240 -> 01:04:41.080] How do you employ that now having this beautiful little almost two-year-old and you're such an important part of her life
[01:04:41.080 -> 01:04:44.560] How do you take those lessons you've learned to give her as much as you can?
[01:04:44.560 -> 01:04:49.600] I try and be the dad and as I did with my two older daughters as well, and obviously still
[01:04:49.600 -> 01:04:53.840] try to do as they get older, obviously the relationship changes. But with Patricia, lockdown
[01:04:53.840 -> 01:04:58.120] came obviously a difficult time for everybody in the world, but for me in terms of home
[01:04:58.120 -> 01:05:02.840] life and being able to devote more time to her, it was the big plus of a tough time for
[01:05:02.840 -> 01:05:08.820] everybody for me at home, because I could give give her more time and I do talk about the relationship with my mom and dad
[01:05:08.820 -> 01:05:10.240] I want to be a parent more like my mom
[01:05:10.240 -> 01:05:16.880] I am more aligned to that to have calm words be a smiley positive face and all those things as she grows up and I
[01:05:16.880 -> 01:05:18.880] Try and do that, you know, I'm always
[01:05:19.020 -> 01:05:22.940] Dad that seems to go away to work quite a lot and probably come back in her very young years
[01:05:22.940 -> 01:05:27.800] but that sometimes you get that big bubbly smile and excitement because you are the one that doesn't do all
[01:05:27.800 -> 01:05:30.680] the nitty gritty jobs that Christine has to do. And I just come back and make her laugh
[01:05:30.680 -> 01:05:35.580] and be funny. It's just a great position sometimes. But that's what I want to do. And bring her
[01:05:35.580 -> 01:05:40.540] up with good manners. I want her to be a polite young girl, as I try to do with my older daughters
[01:05:40.540 -> 01:05:44.020] because that's what would make me proud. I don't care, but I do care that they get their
[01:05:44.020 -> 01:05:48.000] great grades when they get to GCSE a'r A-level.
[01:05:48.000 -> 01:05:52.000] Ond os ydynt yn bobl da, dyna'r holl beth rydw i wir eisiau o'u hun.
[01:05:52.000 -> 01:05:58.000] Rwy'n credu y gwnes i chi ddweud y coment rych chi'n ei wneud yn y gêm hwnnw yn Anfield yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf,
[01:05:58.000 -> 01:06:02.000] lle roeddech chi'n cael ymddangos yn gwneud comentau i'r clop.
[01:06:02.000 -> 01:06:05.240] Rwy'n hoffi'r ffaith bod, pan oeddech chi'n cael ymwneud â'r gwrthdrefn, I really like the fact that when you were interviewed you said your main concern was
[01:06:05.240 -> 01:06:09.400] that your elder daughters would see you using bad language and that was the bit that you
[01:06:09.400 -> 01:06:11.960] regretted not necessarily?
[01:06:11.960 -> 01:06:18.400] Yeah I did regret that and when that broke the next day I clearly felt it as I was doing
[01:06:18.400 -> 01:06:21.680] it but when it broke the next day and a friend of mine sent it to me in the morning I was
[01:06:21.680 -> 01:06:28.720] a bit embarrassed by it because I was in the moment but in the moment I felt we turned up and it was the easiest day for Liverpool
[01:06:28.720 -> 01:06:33.440] ever. They won the league, they went goals up early in the game and a few things happened
[01:06:33.440 -> 01:06:37.560] with the bench. I'm not going to go into the detail but my feeling was I want to protect
[01:06:37.560 -> 01:06:41.960] my club. I didn't have the problem with Liverpool celebrating at all. Luckily enough I've been
[01:06:41.960 -> 01:06:44.940] there. I've been with Chelsea, we won the league quite early one year and you can sit
[01:06:44.940 -> 01:06:46.760] there and everything feels great. My feeling
[01:06:46.760 -> 01:06:50.400] was I want to be there where they are. I definitely didn't mean any disrespect to Jürgen Klopp
[01:06:50.400 -> 01:06:54.520] because I've got huge admiration for him. What I felt had gone on, it was an impulse
[01:06:54.520 -> 01:06:59.260] reaction which I would happily, when I do see him, I'll put that one right. But also
[01:06:59.260 -> 01:07:02.600] I care about my job and it came out in the wrong way. And even I explained that to my
[01:07:02.600 -> 01:07:12.040] daughters when I got home. I'll be brutally honest, it's not the first time they've heard it from me. I do try and practice
[01:07:12.040 -> 01:07:16.180] what I preach but I suppose in adult life it doesn't always work that way. Not just
[01:07:16.180 -> 01:07:20.400] my own daughters because you've got millions of Chelsea fans around the world, whether
[01:07:20.400 -> 01:07:24.080] you're young or old. It's not the way I like to carry myself. But in talking about
[01:07:24.080 -> 01:07:26.760] high level sport, you can't take passion out of the game and
[01:07:26.760 -> 01:07:29.400] it just came out of me in one little swoop there.
[01:07:29.400 -> 01:07:33.720] Right here we go then, quick fire questions. The three non-negotiable
[01:07:33.720 -> 01:07:37.600] behaviours that you and the people around you have to buy into?
[01:07:37.600 -> 01:07:43.440] I feel like I'm going over myself again here but hard work.
[01:07:43.440 -> 01:07:43.940] Yeah.
[01:07:43.940 -> 01:07:45.960] To take responsibility for yourself
[01:07:46.480 -> 01:07:47.400] Be a nice person
[01:07:47.400 -> 01:07:53.100] I suppose that is almost every time the third one isn't it the people go with the hard work and the relentlessness and then they're
[01:07:53.100 -> 01:07:56.580] Like actually you also you got a thing you can do but you can do both you can do both
[01:07:56.920 -> 01:08:00.780] What advice would you give a teenage Frank just starting out? I think to be
[01:08:01.600 -> 01:08:08.080] Just to stay calm through tough times and see the big picture because it's very easy
[01:08:08.080 -> 01:08:13.480] to react in good and bad in different ways. I feel very fortunate to have the career I
[01:08:13.480 -> 01:08:17.440] had and now be manager of Chelsea Football Club but within that there's loads of things
[01:08:17.440 -> 01:08:24.360] that go on. So I would say to him be prepared, young man, be prepared for good and for bad
[01:08:24.360 -> 01:08:26.800] and just be a good person. And then when you work,
[01:08:26.800 -> 01:08:28.000] work as hard as you can.
[01:08:28.000 -> 01:08:33.000] How did you react to your greatest failure?
[01:08:33.000 -> 01:08:37.760] Which one of my failures do you want to choose?
[01:08:37.760 -> 01:08:42.040] We got knocked out of the World Cup in 2006. I had something like 30 shots and didn't score
[01:08:42.040 -> 01:08:45.880] and got absolutely crucified for it. How did I react to that?
[01:08:45.880 -> 01:08:50.320] I probably consumed a fair bit of alcohol on the evening of the game that we got knocked
[01:08:50.320 -> 01:08:53.160] out in, as you tend to do.
[01:08:53.160 -> 01:08:57.320] And probably I'll make myself sound like the best sportsman ever if I went away and worked
[01:08:57.320 -> 01:08:59.760] hard and got better again, because it's never that simple.
[01:08:59.760 -> 01:09:03.760] Of course, sometimes you take it on the chin for a while, but I think I probably, hopefully
[01:09:03.760 -> 01:09:05.600] you learn as you get older with the fighters
[01:09:05.600 -> 01:09:09.380] So I had a lot of failures is that the older you get you kind of understand what they are
[01:09:09.400 -> 01:09:10.680] Keep your head down
[01:09:10.680 -> 01:09:15.760] When you haven't when you found the last thing you should do is open your mouth and start shouting about what went wrong and what?
[01:09:15.760 -> 01:09:18.760] Might have them who else maybe was involved in that it's to stay
[01:09:19.080 -> 01:09:23.200] Quiet and then just perform just come back and perform at a later date
[01:09:23.200 -> 01:09:26.320] And I think I hopefully did that most times I've found.
[01:09:26.320 -> 01:09:27.680] Are you happy?
[01:09:27.680 -> 01:09:33.600] Yes, yes, I'm very happy in my home life, which is the most important thing, of course.
[01:09:33.600 -> 01:09:37.200] And I'm happy in the job that I'm in. And I love doing it.
[01:09:37.200 -> 01:09:40.240] How important is legacy to you?
[01:09:40.240 -> 01:09:43.600] Not that important. And I'll give an example of that quickly is that
[01:09:43.600 -> 01:09:45.460] if I was worried about my legacy at Chelsea
[01:09:45.460 -> 01:09:47.460] I wouldn't have taken a manager's job. So I'm
[01:09:48.400 -> 01:09:51.340] Happy that it's there that can't be a goal
[01:09:51.340 -> 01:09:53.020] Maybe when I'm a really really old man
[01:09:53.020 -> 01:09:55.580] Hopefully if I live long enough and you sit back at the end of it
[01:09:55.580 -> 01:10:00.060] You can go yeah legacy of that period or that period of that period at the minute. I don't think about it
[01:10:00.060 -> 01:10:03.580] I think legacy is something to think about or to for other people to talk about with you
[01:10:03.580 -> 01:10:08.600] So I'm not that concerned about it. And if you could give one golden rule for a high-performance life Frank
[01:10:08.600 -> 01:10:10.720] What would that be? I think you probably know
[01:10:13.720 -> 01:10:15.720] I mean
[01:10:16.160 -> 01:10:17.680] High-performance
[01:10:17.680 -> 01:10:22.360] Life career team wherever it looks different for everybody. So it's really hard to give advice, you know
[01:10:22.600 -> 01:10:28.840] Sir, Alex Ferguson had an incredibly high- team and career for a long, long time. So do other managers now. They
[01:10:28.840 -> 01:10:32.680] all look different and I appreciate that. So I wouldn't try and give that. I spoke a
[01:10:32.680 -> 01:10:36.000] lot there about working hard and having the right ethics, but it looks different for everybody.
[01:10:36.000 -> 01:10:41.980] So I suppose do it as you feel it, as what you see in front of you, with absolute demands
[01:10:41.980 -> 01:10:48.260] on yourself to try and be as good as you can be. Because the desire to improve daily is a huge thing that maybe I haven't quite picked up on enough
[01:10:48.260 -> 01:10:52.080] there but you every day you wake up is what can I do better and never settle well that's
[01:10:52.080 -> 01:10:56.080] probably that one of the main things thank you so much thank you cheers agreeing to be
[01:10:56.080 -> 01:10:59.040] part of the podcast absolute pleasure thanks
[01:10:59.040 -> 01:11:08.000] Damien Jake it's always a pleasure isn't i ddweud o rywun fel Frank, Ollie neu Sean Daish,
[01:11:08.000 -> 01:11:14.000] oherwydd mae'n rhoi ffyrdd ddiddorol i'r byd o glwb chwaraeon profffesiynol
[01:11:14.000 -> 01:11:16.000] a sut mae'n cael ei gweithio ar y moment.
[01:11:16.000 -> 01:11:21.000] Iawn, yn siŵr. Rwy'n credu pan ddweud fy mod i'n ddiddorol iawn gyda'r tri ffyrdd o'r gyrwyr hynny,
[01:11:21.000 -> 01:11:27.000] ac yn ymwneud â Frank, mae'r llwyddidol neu'n cael eu gwneud yn y moment,
[01:11:27.000 -> 01:11:35.000] yn dysgu newydd o wneud y pethau, fel y ddweud Ffranc am ei grŵp hyfforddiant, sut y gwneud y pethau'n gysylltiedig.
[01:11:35.000 -> 01:11:39.000] Mae'n ffyrdd gwirioneddol i ddweud sut mae'r byd yn fwy cyflym ac yn dynamic.
[01:11:39.000 -> 01:11:45.880] A dwi'n hoffi sut y sgwrsodd am ei deallta newydd o gyfathrebu, cymryd pobl ar y ffordd gyda ni. And I love how he talks about his new understanding of communication, taking people on the journey with him.
[01:11:45.880 -> 01:11:48.080] And we're not just talking about taking his players
[01:11:48.080 -> 01:11:49.680] on the journey, we're talking about everyone.
[01:11:49.680 -> 01:11:52.060] And I think that's a great lesson for anyone listening
[01:11:52.060 -> 01:11:55.560] to this podcast, is that whether things go well or go badly,
[01:11:55.560 -> 01:11:57.880] if you tell everyone what you're intending
[01:11:57.880 -> 01:12:00.640] and why you're intending it and how you're gonna try
[01:12:00.640 -> 01:12:02.040] and go about getting there, well,
[01:12:02.040 -> 01:12:03.760] even if you don't complete the journey,
[01:12:03.760 -> 01:12:04.880] they'll still come with you.
[01:12:04.880 -> 01:12:05.820] Yeah, very much.
[01:12:05.820 -> 01:12:07.800] I think that phrase that he used around
[01:12:07.800 -> 01:12:09.200] nature abhors a vacuum.
[01:12:09.200 -> 01:12:11.720] So if you choose to ignore an issue,
[01:12:11.720 -> 01:12:14.060] however difficult or thorny it is,
[01:12:14.060 -> 01:12:15.720] people will automatically,
[01:12:15.720 -> 01:12:17.600] it's sticky and it's more memorable
[01:12:17.600 -> 01:12:19.680] to assume it's something negative.
[01:12:19.680 -> 01:12:21.160] Whereas I think what he's learning is
[01:12:21.160 -> 01:12:24.240] just fill that vacuum with honesty.
[01:12:24.240 -> 01:12:26.000] I also get the impression that when he talks about how his mom brought him up with that much softer side than his dad, Ac rwy'n credu y byddwn yn dysgu yw i ffynnu'r vacuum gyda'r ddiddorol. Rwy'n cael y penderfyniad hefyd, wrth iddiweddwyr,
[01:12:26.000 -> 01:12:29.000] pan ddweud y byddai ei mam yn ei gyrraedd gyda'r sefyll fach na'i tŷ,
[01:12:29.000 -> 01:12:31.000] heb ei fod yn ddod o'n fawr,
[01:12:31.000 -> 01:12:33.000] oherwydd mae'n rhaid i chi fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:33.000 -> 01:12:34.000] rwy'n credu mai dyna'n rhaid i chi fod yn rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:34.000 -> 01:12:35.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:35.000 -> 01:12:36.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:36.000 -> 01:12:37.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:37.000 -> 01:12:38.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:38.000 -> 01:12:39.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:39.000 -> 01:12:40.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:40.000 -> 01:12:41.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:41.000 -> 01:12:42.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:42.000 -> 01:12:43.000] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau yn eich swydd,
[01:12:43.000 -> 01:12:46.480] mae'n rhaid i ti fod yn anodd ar weithiau ffotbol, o'r ffynon Chelsea, neu y byddwch chi'n clywed arno ar gyfer eich gwirioneddau o lefel oedran,
[01:12:46.480 -> 01:12:47.400] allan o'r sport.
[01:12:47.400 -> 01:12:49.840] Rwy'n credu bod y syniad hwn o fod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod
[01:12:49.840 -> 01:12:52.960] yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod in
[01:12:52.960 -> 01:12:54.560] yn ddod in
[01:12:54.560 -> 01:12:56.080] yn ddod in
[01:12:56.080 -> 01:12:58.560] yn ddod in
[01:12:58.560 -> 01:13:01.040] yn ddod in
[01:13:01.040 -> 01:13:03.520] yn ddod in
[01:13:03.520 -> 01:13:07.000] yn ddod in yn ddiogel, ond yw'n ymwneud â'r bobl gyda chi ac yn ei wneud gyda'r dynion ar y pwynt.
[01:13:07.000 -> 01:13:09.000] Ac os ydych chi'n clywed y podcast hwn,
[01:13:09.000 -> 01:13:11.000] a dweud i chi, yn y dyfodol ddim,
[01:13:11.000 -> 01:13:13.000] fod Frank Lampard yn ddigon llwyr,
[01:13:13.000 -> 01:13:16.000] neu fod gan Frank Lampard cyfleoedd na dydyn nhw ddim,
[01:13:16.000 -> 01:13:18.000] neu nad yw Frank Lampard wedi ceisio'n anodd,
[01:13:18.000 -> 01:13:20.000] neu nad yw wedi rhoi'r gweithiau i mewn,
[01:13:20.000 -> 01:13:22.000] gofyn iddo ddweud y podcast hwn,
[01:13:22.000 -> 01:13:24.000] oherwydd y peth un y dymwn i'n ei ddweud o'r hyn, Damian,
[01:13:24.000 -> 01:13:30.000] ac ar gyfer yrw'r gwych o'r gwych o weithio bob dydd.
[01:13:30.000 -> 01:13:38.000] Ie, dwi'n credu, o'r dechrau, mae'r gwybodaethau o'i dad, o'r ffordd y mae'n ei ddweud, yn ymwneud â'r hyn sy'n ei ddod allan.
[01:13:38.000 -> 01:13:45.560] Rwy'n credu bod y ddisgyblin, y ddysgwyr, y ffocws a'r gwych o'r gwych y mae'r dad wedi'i roi arno ar y dechrau iawn, yn rhywbeth sy'n ei gyrraedd gyda ni i'w gyrraedd arall. the determination, the focus and relentlessness that his dad had given him at a young age.
[01:13:45.560 -> 01:13:47.720] It's something that he's carrying with him
[01:13:47.720 -> 01:13:49.360] into his current career.
[01:13:49.360 -> 01:13:50.200] Thanks ever so much.
[01:13:50.200 -> 01:13:51.020] It was a pleasure, wasn't it?
[01:13:51.020 -> 01:13:52.080] Oh, it was a real treat.
[01:13:52.080 -> 01:13:52.920] Thank you.
[01:13:56.560 -> 01:13:58.960] Well, Damien, so nice to sit and listen once again
[01:13:58.960 -> 01:14:00.900] to the things that Frank had to say.
[01:14:01.800 -> 01:14:06.480] Oh, I just loved that hour and a bit in his company. It was special, wasn't it?
[01:14:06.480 -> 01:14:10.280] It was very special, Jake. I think the fact that he came in and was having listened to
[01:14:10.280 -> 01:14:14.640] the podcast himself so he knew where we were going with it, but just his openness, his
[01:14:14.640 -> 01:14:19.920] honesty and his ability to articulate what high performance was for him was a real privilege.
[01:14:19.920 -> 01:14:24.920] And I love that this episode is with a Premier League football manager. The previous episode
[01:14:24.920 -> 01:14:28.400] was with Michelle Moan, who came on the podcast, talked about her
[01:14:28.400 -> 01:14:33.040] journey to being a successful business person and with a real focus on the struggles.
[01:14:33.040 -> 01:14:35.840] And we've had loads of people getting in touch, sending us their thoughts.
[01:14:35.840 -> 01:14:41.040] So first of all, another thank you for helping to turn this into a community.
[01:14:41.040 -> 01:14:49.060] Damien and I don't just want this to be a podcast you listen to and then leave. We really want you to feel like you're part of a family here. And this
[01:14:49.060 -> 01:14:53.740] is a message from Michael Deegan. He says, I've just heard a much needed quote that stopped
[01:14:53.740 -> 01:14:59.220] me in my tracks by Michelle Mone on the high performance podcast. Only care about what
[01:14:59.220 -> 01:15:05.760] your family and friends think about you. The rest of the people can bugger off. Now I like that
[01:15:05.760 -> 01:15:10.480] Damien because I think it's never been harder to be ourselves because it's
[01:15:10.480 -> 01:15:14.160] never been easier for other people to have an opinion about us. Absolutely Jake
[01:15:14.160 -> 01:15:18.240] there's a quote that I'd like to share with people it's called Dunbar's number
[01:15:18.240 -> 01:15:22.880] and it basically goes back to the way that our brains can only cope with
[01:15:22.880 -> 01:15:25.120] knowing at least 150 people that's almost seen as the maximum that we can y ffordd y gall ein oedolion ymdrechu gyda'r gwybod am ddod â'r 150 o bobl,
[01:15:25.120 -> 01:15:29.200] mae hynny'n ymwneud â'r mwyaf y gallwn ymddiriedu gyda'i.
[01:15:29.200 -> 01:15:32.640] Ac rwy'n credu bod y cymdeithasol a phethau fel hyn nawr yn ein cyhoeddi
[01:15:32.640 -> 01:15:36.800] i miloed o bobl sy efallai ddim yn deall ein hirio, ein cyfathrebu,
[01:15:36.800 -> 01:15:39.920] ein sefyllfa ein hunain. Ac felly os ydyn ni'n ymwneud â'n
[01:15:39.920 -> 01:15:43.520] ffyrdd o bobl sy ddim yn ein eiliad ein hunain,
[01:15:43.520 -> 01:15:45.680] sy'n deall ein eiliadau hunain o'r gofynion a'n
[01:15:45.680 -> 01:16:07.460] aspiratau, gallwn ddod yn ffwrdd i'n gilydd beth sy'n bwysig iawn i ni i gynnig pobl a dydyn ni ddim yn gwybod ein bod ni ddim yn gwybod eich gwrthdaro a dydyn ni ddim yn deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi'n deall eich bod chi' Yeah, and it's almost like why would you listen to somebody that doesn't quite understand the pressures that you're working on the context?
[01:16:07.640 -> 01:16:11.600] Anything about your own backstory to therefore then make a judgment on you
[01:16:11.600 -> 01:16:15.520] And I think that's a message really from Damian and I to all of you listening to this, you know
[01:16:15.520 -> 01:16:20.880] Have that group of people who you look to and if those people tell you something's not good
[01:16:21.120 -> 01:16:23.460] Maybe you do have to really listen to anything. Yeah, okay
[01:16:23.460 -> 01:16:25.440] I trust what you say and I have to you know
[01:16:25.560 -> 01:16:31.240] Accepting criticism is a really important thing. You can't live in a world where you don't take criticism
[01:16:31.240 -> 01:16:34.220] But it's just who you take it from there's an old quote from a guy
[01:16:34.220 -> 01:16:39.400] I met many years ago called Angelo Dundee a famous boxing coach who used to urge his fighters
[01:16:39.400 -> 01:16:44.000] He'd say always have a look at who's in your dressing room when you lose because anyone can come in when you win
[01:16:44.080 -> 01:16:46.160] It's the people who are still stood next to you
[01:16:46.160 -> 01:16:48.000] when you've lost that are the ones
[01:16:48.000 -> 01:16:49.560] that are coming with you on that journey.
[01:16:49.560 -> 01:16:51.320] Listen, mate, thank you very much, Damien.
[01:16:51.320 -> 01:16:53.000] And while we're thanking people,
[01:16:53.000 -> 01:16:55.040] a big thank you, of course, to Lotus Cars.
[01:16:55.040 -> 01:16:57.560] Please check them out on social media at Lotus Cars.
[01:16:57.560 -> 01:16:59.960] Quite simply, this podcast you've just listened to
[01:16:59.960 -> 01:17:01.600] would not happen without Lotus,
[01:17:01.600 -> 01:17:03.360] so let's send them some love.
[01:17:03.360 -> 01:17:05.240] A quick reminder, as always,
[01:17:05.240 -> 01:17:06.600] you can find us across social media.
[01:17:06.600 -> 01:17:08.520] You can subscribe to our YouTube channel
[01:17:08.520 -> 01:17:10.400] where you can see unseen clips
[01:17:10.400 -> 01:17:12.940] and extended interviews with our guests.
[01:17:12.940 -> 01:17:14.520] A big thank you to Damien, of course.
[01:17:14.520 -> 01:17:16.960] A big thanks to Finn Ryan at Rethink Audio
[01:17:16.960 -> 01:17:18.360] for his hard work with the podcast.
[01:17:18.360 -> 01:17:19.680] A huge thanks to Lotus Cars,
[01:17:19.680 -> 01:17:22.420] but as always, the biggest thanks goes to you.
[01:17:22.420 -> 01:17:23.440] Thanks for backing us.
[01:17:23.440 -> 01:17:25.640] Thanks for coming with us on the journey. And thanks for being
[01:17:25.640 -> 01:17:28.600] part of the high performance family. See you for another
[01:17:28.600 -> 01:17:59.460] episode very soon. Have a great day. At Fred Meyer, shopping with pickup and delivery is the same as shopping in-store.
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