E206 - Simon Sinek: ‘Start with why’ when searching for High Performance

Simon Sinek is an author and inspirational speaker. Simon is known for his books ‘Start with Why’ and ‘Find Your Why’, both of which focus on how to find your purpose and help those in your life find it too. Finding your Why, is the idea that “everyone knows what we do, some of us know how we do it, but very few of us can articulate why we do what we do.” Great leaders think, act and communicate in the exact same way, which is completely different from everyone else. They tell people why they do what they do, rather than what they do. In this episode, they delve into how Simon found his why, after becoming unfulfilled in work and life whilst at career high point and how he helps others find their why too.

They also discuss how you cannot be a high performer on your own. He shares language is crucial when giving feedback and how to shape criticism so those in power will respond well to it. This episode is a deep dive into finding your purpose, using your best attributes to their fullest and what makes a great leader.

Listen to Simon help Jake find his ‘Why’ exclusively on the High Performance App.

Download The High Performance App by clicking the link below and using the code: HPAPP https://www.thehighperformancepodcast.com/app-link

Find Simon’s book ‘Start with Why’ here: https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/start-with-why-how-great-leaders-inspire-everyone-to-take-action-simon-sinek/239994?ean=9780241958223

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### Section 1: Introduction to Simon Sinek and the Podcast Episode

* Simon Sinek is an author and inspirational speaker known for his books "Start with Why" and "Find Your Why."
* The podcast episode delves into how Simon found his "Why," which is the driving force behind his work.
* Simon emphasizes the importance of finding your "Why" and using it to guide your life and work.

### Section 2: The Concept of "Why" and Its Significance

* "Why" is the core belief or purpose that motivates an individual or organization.
* Great leaders and organizations start with "Why" rather than "What" or "How."
* Communicating "Why" effectively can inspire and engage others, leading to higher performance and loyalty.

### Section 3: The Biology of Decision-Making and the Role of "Why"

* The human brain's limbic system, responsible for emotions and behavior, is influenced by "Why."
* Starting with "Why" appeals to the emotional part of the brain, creating a deeper connection and inspiring action.
* Rational explanations and features (the "What" and "How") are processed by the neocortex, which is responsible for logical thinking.

### Section 4: Discovering Your "Why"

* Your "Why" is fully formed by your mid to late teens and remains consistent throughout your life.
* To discover your "Why," engage in self-reflection and ask yourself what you love doing and what values drive you.
* The "Friend's Exercise" is a technique to help you uncover your "Why" by asking a close friend why they value your friendship.

### Section 5: Applying "Why" to Teams and Organizations

* A company's "Why" is its origin story and the founder's vision.
* Communicating the "Why" of a team or organization can foster a sense of purpose and unity among members.
* Sharing stories of what team members love about their work can attract like-minded individuals and repel those who don't align with the organization's values.

### Section 6: Simon's Personal Experience of Discovering His "Why"

* Simon shares a childhood memory of feeling a sense of belonging and joy while on a family road trip.
* He relates this experience to the feeling of being part of a team or organization that shares a common purpose.
* Simon's "Why" is rooted in his desire to create a world where people feel inspired, safe, and fulfilled by their work.

### Section 7: The Importance of Authenticity and Alignment

* Authenticity means aligning your actions and words with your core values and beliefs.
* Making choices that are in line with your "Why" leads to a greater sense of fulfillment and authenticity.
* Simon emphasizes the importance of finding work that aligns with your "Why" to achieve high performance and satisfaction.

### Section 8: The Power of Inspiration and Shared Purpose

* Inspiration can spread through an organization when leaders and team members are passionate about their "Why."
* A shared sense of purpose can motivate individuals to go above and beyond their job descriptions.
* Simon believes that every individual has the potential to inspire others and make a positive impact on the world.

### Overall Message:

Simon Sinek's message centers around the importance of discovering and living in alignment with your "Why." By understanding your core beliefs and values, you can make choices that lead to a more fulfilling and authentic life. This concept applies not only to individuals but also to teams and organizations, where a shared sense of purpose can inspire and drive high performance. Simon encourages listeners to reflect on their "Why" and to use it as a guiding force in their personal and professional lives.

**Navigating the Podcast**

- For the full conversation and Simon's guidance in finding your "Why," search for "High Performance" in the app store and use the exclusive code HP app.


**Discovering Your "Why"**

- Simon Sinek's journey to discovering his "Why" began with a realization that he had fallen out of love with his successful marketing consultancy.
- He emphasized the importance of finding your "Why" to gain a deeper understanding of your purpose and motivations.
- Sinek highlights the significance of seeking help and support from trusted friends or professionals when facing challenges and seeking clarity.


**The Significance of Courage and Vulnerability**

- Sinek emphasizes the courage required to ask vulnerable questions and open up about personal struggles.
- He stresses the importance of having courageous friends who genuinely care and are willing to provide support during difficult times.
- Sinek and his friend developed a unique way of expressing their love and support by saying, "You're never alone."


**The Value of Collaboration and Teamwork**

- Sinek emphasizes the belief that high performance cannot be achieved solely through individual efforts.
- He highlights the importance of teamwork and collaboration, stating that trying to solve life's problems alone can lead to addiction and harmful coping mechanisms.
- Sinek encourages individuals to seek support from others, embrace vulnerability, and foster meaningful relationships.


**Finding Strength in Acknowledging Weaknesses**

- Sinek challenges the traditional view of strengths and weaknesses, suggesting that they are context-dependent attributes.
- He emphasizes the importance of understanding one's characteristics and seeking environments that leverage strengths while minimizing weaknesses.
- Sinek provides an example of how recognizing his own weaknesses in working independently led him to seek a supportive team for a specific project.


**Making Informed Choices and Weighing Costs**

- Sinek discusses the significance of making informed choices by carefully considering the costs and benefits of various options.
- He believes that everything comes with a cost, including money, career, relationships, and health.
- Sinek encourages individuals to weigh the costs and benefits before making decisions, acknowledging that sometimes the cost is worth it while other times it is not.


**Additional Resources and Insights**

- AG1 by Athletic Greens: A comprehensive multivitamin and whole food supplement trusted by Sinek and many others for daily health and well-being.
- BlueNile.com: A reputable online jeweler offering lab-grown diamonds identical to natural diamonds, with a special offer for listeners.
- Mint Mobile: A wireless service provider offering premium plans for just $15 per month, with exceptional service quality.
- Jo Malone's story: An example of identifying unique strengths and thriving in an environment that aligns with those strengths.
- Richard Branson's upbringing: A story highlighting the benefits of adversity and curiosity in shaping an individual's success.
- The importance of leadership: Sinek discusses leaders who have inspired others and left a lasting impact beyond their own lives.
- Steve Jobs' influence: Sinek analyzes the reasons behind Steve Jobs' ability to connect with people and inspire loyalty.

## Summary of the Podcast Episode ##

**Main Themes:**

- The importance of finding your 'Why'.
- How to use language effectively when giving and receiving feedback.
- The significance of surrounding yourself with the right people.
- How to maintain a grounded perspective, even in the face of success.

**Key Points:**

- Simon Sinek is an author and inspirational speaker known for his books 'Start with Why' and 'Find Your Why', which focus on helping individuals and organizations discover their purpose.
- Finding your 'Why' is crucial because it provides a clear direction and motivation for your actions.
- Great leaders communicate in a way that resonates with others by focusing on the 'Why' rather than just the 'What' or 'How'.
- High performance cannot be achieved alone; effective leaders recognize the importance of teamwork and collaboration.
- When giving feedback, it is essential to choose language that is respectful and constructive, focusing on specific behaviors rather than personal attacks.
- Surrounding yourself with people who challenge and support you is vital for personal and professional growth.
- True success involves recognizing that the accolades and recognition you receive are often more reflective of the position you hold rather than your individual worth.
- Maintaining a grounded perspective, even in the face of success, requires humility and an awareness of the transient nature of external validation.
- Having a strong sense of purpose and a clear 'Why' can serve as a guiding force, helping you stay motivated and focused, even when faced with challenges.

**Memorable Quotes:**

- "If you want to achieve anything in this world, you have to get used to the idea that not everybody's gonna like you." - Simon Sinek
- "The right people always made introductions for me." - Simon Sinek
- "I don't show my work to anybody except about one person." - Simon Sinek
- "I mean, one of the things that I do notice about people who sort of had some sort of commercial success, especially the ones who had it young, is their guards go up." - Simon Sinek
- "Like, everybody knows this when you achieve any kind of commercial success whatsoever, all your jokes are funnier and you're much better looking, right? It's just what happens." - Simon Sinek
- "If you believe your own press and you believe all the smoke that people blow up your ass, then it's gonna be a short existence." - Simon Sinek
- "I think every successful person on the planet is given ceramic cups. They hold doors open for you. They give you perks. They give you free products, you know, whatever it is." - Simon Sinek
- "The ceramic cup was never meant for me. It was meant for the position I held. I deserve a styrofoam cup." - Former Undersecretary of Defense
- "I think the people that think that they deserve the ceramic cup. They've missed they've missed the plot." - Simon Sinek
- "There's a combination of things. I think definitely knowing your why is a part of it. Definitely surrounding yourself with people who tell you you're an idiot is important, you know, my sister is the first person to be like get over yourself, you know." - Simon Sinek
- "And I've worked very hard to make it not about me." - Simon Sinek

**Overall Message:**

Finding your 'Why' and surrounding yourself with supportive individuals are crucial elements for personal and professional fulfillment. True success involves recognizing that external validation is fleeting and that maintaining a grounded perspective is essential for long-term happiness and impact.

## Simon Sinek's Appearance on the High Performance Podcast: A Detailed Summary

### Overview

- Simon Sinek, author and inspirational speaker, joined Jake Humphrey on the High Performance Podcast to discuss finding one's purpose, utilizing strengths, and the characteristics of effective leadership.

### Key Points

- **Finding Your Why:**

- Sinek emphasizes the significance of discovering one's "why" or purpose in life and work. He believes that great leaders communicate their "why" rather than just "what" they do.

- The "Friends Exercise" is a valuable tool for identifying your "why." It involves asking friends and colleagues to describe the consistent themes and patterns they observe in your behavior, especially during moments of peak performance.

- Sinek's book, "Start with Why," and other resources are available to help individuals and organizations uncover their "why."

- **Utilizing Strengths:**

- High performance cannot be achieved solely through individual efforts. Collaboration and teamwork are essential.

- Effective leaders recognize and leverage the strengths of their team members, creating an environment where everyone can contribute their unique talents.

- Sinek highlights the importance of providing constructive feedback in a respectful and supportive manner to promote growth and development.

- **Characteristics of Effective Leadership:**

- Great leaders possess a clear sense of purpose and are able to articulate their "why" in a compelling way.

- They prioritize the well-being of others, recognizing that high performance for personal gain is unsustainable. True fulfillment comes from contributing to the success of others.

- Effective leaders create a culture of trust, respect, and psychological safety, fostering an environment where team members feel empowered to take risks and innovate.

- Sinek emphasizes the importance of honor and integrity in leadership, valuing actions that benefit others, even when no one is watching.

### Conclusion

Simon Sinek's appearance on the High Performance Podcast provided valuable insights into finding purpose, utilizing strengths, and the qualities of effective leadership. The episode emphasized the significance of aligning actions with one's "why," fostering a collaborative environment, and prioritizing the well-being of others.

[00:00.000 -> 00:04.920] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the
[00:04.920 -> 00:09.780] minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jay Comfrey and alongside
[00:09.780 -> 00:14.880] Professor Damien Hughes, we learn from the stories, successes and struggles of our guests,
[00:14.880 -> 00:19.800] allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. Here's what's coming up today.
[00:19.800 -> 00:25.080] I have a vision of a world that does not yet exist, a world in which the vast majority
[00:25.080 -> 00:29.400] of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are, and end the day
[00:29.400 -> 00:32.120] fulfilled by the work that they do.
[00:32.120 -> 00:36.240] The experiences you had growing up make you who you are, make me who I am.
[00:36.240 -> 00:40.240] Your why is fully formed by your mid to late teens and it doesn't change for the rest of
[00:40.240 -> 00:41.240] your life.
[00:41.240 -> 00:42.240] You have only one why.
[00:42.240 -> 00:44.240] You are who you are.
[00:44.240 -> 00:45.200] I don't think you can be high performance
[00:45.200 -> 00:51.120] by yourself. I don't think it exists. And anybody who does is, they're either not as high performing
[00:51.120 -> 00:57.920] as they think they are, or they are high performing, but at tremendous cost. I live for the
[00:58.480 -> 01:08.440] desire to spread a message in a way that I can die with confidence that other people carry the torch without me Every year the goal is that that if I were to get it by a bus I?
[01:09.160 -> 01:15.080] Can I can say with pride that the work will continue because it has to because it must because the vision is bigger than all
[01:15.080 -> 01:17.080] of us
[01:17.320 -> 01:23.240] So today we welcome author Simon Sinek to high performance one of the most requested people
[01:23.280 -> 01:30.180] We're getting messages from you all the time saying, please get Simon Sinek onto your podcast. And so we've done just that.
[01:30.180 -> 01:34.860] Simon is an inspiration. He may well be best known for his TED talk on the concept of why
[01:34.860 -> 01:39.800] it's been viewed over 60 million times. His video on millennials in the workplace reached
[01:39.800 -> 01:45.120] 80 million views in its first week. And he continues to be an inspiration through his
[01:45.120 -> 01:50.760] global bestsellers, Start With Why, Leaders Eat Last and The Infinite Game.
[01:50.760 -> 01:55.800] And we speak to Simon on this podcast about how you can find your why, about why why is
[01:55.800 -> 01:58.160] so important and so much more.
[01:58.160 -> 02:03.280] I've listened to a lot of conversations with Simon, I've read Simon's books, I feel I know
[02:03.280 -> 02:06.320] a lot about him, or should I say I felt I knew a
[02:06.320 -> 02:10.440] lot about him until he came on High Performance, because I think this is a really fascinating
[02:10.440 -> 02:14.800] insight into the person behind the concept of why.
[02:14.800 -> 02:20.960] And I think when you hear the way Simon talks, why becomes so much more valuable.
[02:20.960 -> 02:26.000] And for anyone that downloads the High Performance app, you will get some awesome exclusive content from Simon as well.
[02:26.000 -> 02:33.000] Simply search for High Performance in the app store right now and then use your exclusive code HPAPP to get in.
[02:33.000 -> 02:37.000] So let's get to it. Simon Sinek on High Performance.
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[04:57.560 -> 05:02.280] Simon, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. We're very excited about this
[05:02.280 -> 05:07.400] conversation. The first question for you is, how would you define high performance?
[05:07.400 -> 05:12.800] I think high performance is more of a feeling than an accomplishment, right?
[05:12.800 -> 05:17.600] I think high performance is being in flow.
[05:17.600 -> 05:23.000] When I feel like I'm performing well, I'm actually having fun.
[05:23.000 -> 05:26.160] No matter how difficult the work is is no matter how stressed I am
[05:26.780 -> 05:31.120] Even if I work late at the end of whatever I'm doing that day. I'll walk ago. That was fun
[05:31.940 -> 05:35.900] and so for me high performance is probably this intersection where you like the thing that
[05:36.080 -> 05:41.960] You're enjoying and the thing that and you're being productive sort of collide. I think it's more of a feeling that it is a
[05:43.280 -> 05:46.000] Calculation. So what are the things that get you there?
[05:46.000 -> 05:55.000] Well, as I said, you know, fun is a big part of it for me, and the way that I make sure that it is fun is that there's a context for everything.
[05:55.000 -> 06:05.600] So I'm very, very purpose-driven, cause-driven. I have a vision of a world that does not yet exist, a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired,
[06:05.600 -> 06:07.880] feel safe wherever they are, and end the day fulfilled
[06:07.880 -> 06:09.240] by the work that they do.
[06:09.240 -> 06:13.720] And as long as whatever I'm doing is moving towards that,
[06:13.720 -> 06:15.800] and I don't even care what it is,
[06:15.800 -> 06:19.220] and I can either feel or measure
[06:19.220 -> 06:21.200] that I'm working towards that,
[06:21.200 -> 06:24.640] then I will much more easily find myself in that state.
[06:24.640 -> 06:25.420] So for example,
[06:25.420 -> 06:29.340] if I know something doesn't, so let me give you an example. Like if some company calls
[06:29.340 -> 06:34.700] me and says, we'll offer you a ton of money to come and speak to our top 30 salespeople
[06:34.700 -> 06:39.800] at a company that I don't really respect, that their culture is something that I wouldn't
[06:39.800 -> 06:49.440] write about, but they just offer me a ton of money, you know, to go do it. I will turn it down because the feeling of being there will feel like work.
[06:49.840 -> 06:55.880] Whereas when I get offered to go somewhere where pays a lot less, but what they tell
[06:55.880 -> 06:59.800] me that the company does or the way that they lead their people, I find interesting.
[06:59.800 -> 07:00.560] I find inspiring.
[07:00.600 -> 07:04.060] I actually want to learn from them and then showing up with them and the
[07:04.060 -> 07:08.800] conversations I have with them and the feeling that I get that I'm contributing to whatever it is they're doing,
[07:09.360 -> 07:15.600] that brings me tremendous joy and flow. So it's really about having a filter and using it. I think
[07:15.600 -> 07:19.840] a lot of people talk about cause and purpose, but they use it as a punchline. You know, it's copy on
[07:19.840 -> 07:28.340] a website and if you're too metrics driven, it's much harder to get that feeling because
[07:28.340 -> 07:30.400] metrics don't produce that feeling ever.
[07:30.400 -> 07:34.960] I wonder though whether those sort of three key principles of how you would love to see
[07:34.960 -> 07:38.700] the world, whether you could get there even quicker if you went into these businesses
[07:38.700 -> 07:43.520] that didn't understand the way you think or didn't have these values and almost open their
[07:43.520 -> 07:45.600] eyes to what they could be.
[07:45.600 -> 07:49.840] Oh yeah, make no mistake, I don't just preach to the converted. I mean, my team knows I
[07:49.840 -> 07:57.120] call it belly of the beast, which is I will say yes to things where I know that they don't.
[07:57.120 -> 08:02.960] You know, I'll go into a big bank that I think has done damage and I will show up as a preacher
[08:02.960 -> 08:05.520] for sure, but then I have to have scale, right?
[08:05.520 -> 08:10.160] So the example I gave was 30 of our top salespeople. I'm not moving any needles that day,
[08:10.160 -> 08:16.400] right? But if you say it's the top 30 CEOs from the biggest, you know, whatever,
[08:17.040 -> 08:21.440] venture capitalist firms and banks, whatever. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that, but I'm coming
[08:21.440 -> 08:28.000] with a different agenda. You know, I'm coming there to preach. So I've worked with many dysfunctional broken companies.
[08:28.000 -> 08:30.920] The difference is, is there's at least a few people,
[08:30.920 -> 08:34.120] a few executives who know that change has to happen.
[08:34.120 -> 08:36.800] And they welcome my message when I go in there.
[08:36.800 -> 08:38.400] In other words, there's hope.
[08:38.400 -> 08:41.000] I'm not gonna go preach to a brick wall.
[08:41.000 -> 08:42.880] You know, there's literally no point.
[08:42.880 -> 08:46.720] There has to be at least somebody in there who, who, who, who has interest.
[08:47.400 -> 08:50.520] There's a famous saying then that all progress depends upon the
[08:50.520 -> 08:51.480] unreasonable man.
[08:52.080 -> 08:57.400] So when you go into these environments where you preaching these messages, how
[08:57.400 -> 09:01.560] do you cope with the idea that sometimes it isn't what they want to hear?
[09:02.480 -> 09:07.440] Well, I don't think they're going to invite me. If they're inviting me, somebody has at least told them
[09:07.440 -> 09:08.240] that this is going to happen.
[09:08.240 -> 09:10.160] And it's happened a few times where
[09:10.160 -> 09:11.360] they didn't do their homework.
[09:11.360 -> 09:12.820] You know, maybe they just, you know,
[09:12.820 -> 09:15.400] somebody said you should get this guy, and they did.
[09:15.400 -> 09:17.200] And I remember there was a company a bunch of years ago,
[09:17.200 -> 09:20.160] and I'll leave out the names to protect the guilty.
[09:20.160 -> 09:21.800] But the CFO came.
[09:21.800 -> 09:24.840] He was waiting in the green room, waiting to go out.
[09:24.840 -> 09:29.040] And he came into the green room and said, listen, I have a favor to ask. Don't talk about layoffs.
[09:30.000 -> 09:34.080] I said, why not? He goes, well, we're planning on having a round in a couple of weeks. And
[09:34.080 -> 09:39.120] I don't want you to talk about that. That's bad for business. I said, but it is bad for business.
[09:39.120 -> 09:43.440] It's bad for a corporate culture. He goes, yeah, I know, but don't talk about it. I said, well,
[09:43.440 -> 09:47.820] I'm not going to not talk about it. Like, I'm not going to, I won't bring it up. I'm not going to
[09:47.820 -> 09:52.440] be spiteful and I'm not going to stab you with it, but if it comes up, I'm going to
[09:52.440 -> 09:55.020] talk about it. He goes, no, no, I know, but I'd really appreciate it if you didn't talk
[09:55.020 -> 09:58.620] about it. I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to make that promise. So that has happened a
[09:58.620 -> 10:03.600] couple of times. But again, I think most people, I've got enough work out there that if they
[10:03.600 -> 10:08.000] know that I'll always speak my mind and if they're afraid of that, I did have somebody cancel on me once.
[10:08.000 -> 10:13.000] It was a big brand who I had a meeting with the senior executives before I went to visit them.
[10:13.000 -> 10:16.000] And we had a very honest conversation. They uninvited me.
[10:16.000 -> 10:21.000] The reason I ask you is because there will be people that are almost advocates for your message
[10:21.000 -> 10:25.400] that are in those organizations that want to get the message
[10:25.400 -> 10:26.400] across.
[10:26.400 -> 10:31.340] Sometimes you can be the messenger that delivers it to a certain level of leadership.
[10:31.340 -> 10:36.480] So I suppose my question is more aimed at what advice or tips or techniques could you
[10:36.480 -> 10:42.140] offer for those people that are in the belly of the beast, trying to make it happen without
[10:42.140 -> 10:44.140] having the platform that you do.
[10:44.140 -> 10:48.480] One of the mistakes that people make, and by the way, folks in my position as well make
[10:48.480 -> 10:55.420] this mistake, the well-intended insiders who want to affect change, they come guns-a-blazing,
[10:55.420 -> 11:00.320] you know, they get the chance to talk to the executive and it starts off with sometimes
[11:00.320 -> 11:04.240] the words but at least the mentality of, let me tell you what's wrong, or let me tell you
[11:04.240 -> 11:06.160] how to fix this thing.
[11:06.160 -> 11:08.380] And nobody wants to hear that.
[11:08.380 -> 11:10.600] Like, can you imagine if I sat down and said,
[11:10.600 -> 11:12.840] can I just tell you how to make your podcast better?
[11:12.840 -> 11:14.480] Can I just spend 10 minutes and like,
[11:14.480 -> 11:16.120] tell you what's wrong with your podcast?
[11:16.120 -> 11:17.520] I haven't even said anything already,
[11:17.520 -> 11:19.040] you're shutting down, right?
[11:19.960 -> 11:23.080] You're like, no, don't tell us that, right?
[11:23.080 -> 11:24.680] But if I talk about vision
[11:24.680 -> 11:26.480] and I talk about where I wanna go
[11:26.480 -> 11:28.120] and I talk about the world that I imagine,
[11:28.120 -> 11:30.040] I think a lot of it is language.
[11:30.040 -> 11:32.440] And it has to start with curiosity.
[11:32.440 -> 11:34.400] Can I talk to you about some of the things
[11:34.400 -> 11:36.360] that you are imagining for this company?
[11:36.360 -> 11:37.600] What do you envision for this company?
[11:37.600 -> 11:39.000] And if somebody shows curiosity
[11:39.000 -> 11:40.660] for the ideas of somebody else,
[11:40.660 -> 11:43.640] then and only then are they open to your ideas.
[11:43.640 -> 11:48.860] If you make somebody else feel seen and heard and understood, then they want to return the favor by making you feel seen
[11:48.860 -> 11:52.280] and heard and understood. So very often I don't actually think it's the point of view,
[11:52.280 -> 11:57.320] I think it's the way in which we present the point of view to those in power. Almost always.
[11:57.320 -> 12:02.480] I saw it play out recently in front of me, very senior executive went up to his boss
[12:02.480 -> 12:07.320] and basically said, let me tell you what's broken and what's wrong and I saw his boss just shut down
[12:08.320 -> 12:13.200] As opposed to going up to him be like, hey, how are you? It's been a stressful few weeks
[12:13.200 -> 12:14.960] I just want to check in and see you that you're okay
[12:14.960 -> 12:19.440] And I pride myself on that I think that was the coup of start with why to be honest
[12:19.440 -> 12:21.440] I'm not the first person to talk about purpose at work
[12:21.800 -> 12:29.040] But back when I started talking about the why if you talked about purpose at work, you were some weirdo hippie, you know? And
[12:29.040 -> 12:32.720] so talking about purpose at work, you're literally only preaching to the converted, this very
[12:32.720 -> 12:39.560] small group of people who believed in it. And the coup of start with why was the language,
[12:39.560 -> 12:46.500] which is I found a neutral language that made those who needed to hear the message, hear the message.
[12:46.500 -> 12:52.000] It also was new language that those that were struggling to tell their bosses, now had new language.
[12:52.000 -> 12:55.000] And I got that in the early days of Start With Why. The number of people who came up to me and said,
[12:55.000 -> 13:02.000] thank you, you've given me language that is helping me tell them the thing I've been trying to tell them for years.
[13:02.000 -> 13:05.240] So once again, it goes back to language.
[13:05.240 -> 13:11.960] So let's talk about why then. It's the global bestseller. Many, many copies around the world
[13:11.960 -> 13:16.100] have been and continue to be and will continue to be sold. But I'm also sure there might
[13:16.100 -> 13:20.520] be a few people listening to this that are thinking, hang on a minute, start with why?
[13:20.520 -> 13:23.640] What's that about? Or even people who maybe have heard of the book or might have read
[13:23.640 -> 13:28.160] some of the book but would love to hear more from you about it. So, could you explain
[13:28.160 -> 13:30.400] the concept of Start With Why for the uninitiated?
[13:30.400 -> 13:34.120] Matthew Feeney So very simply, every single one of us knows
[13:34.120 -> 13:40.120] what we do. The products we sell, the services we offer, the jobs we perform. Some of us
[13:40.120 -> 13:50.880] know how we do what we do, the things that we think make us stand out or distinguish us from others who do similar things to us. But very, very few of us can clearly articulate
[13:50.880 -> 13:56.240] why we do what we do. I don't mean to make money. I mean, what's your purpose? What's
[13:56.240 -> 13:59.600] your cause? What's your belief? Why did you get out of bed this morning? Why does your
[13:59.600 -> 14:05.160] organization exist? And why should anybody care? And what I learned is that the great leaders,
[14:05.160 -> 14:09.360] the most inspiring leaders, everybody from Mahatma Gandhi,
[14:09.360 -> 14:11.960] Martin Luther King, Steve Jobs, you know,
[14:11.960 -> 14:14.640] all these great leaders, these inspiring leaders,
[14:14.640 -> 14:16.600] every single one of them thinks, acts,
[14:16.600 -> 14:18.880] and communicates the exact same way.
[14:18.880 -> 14:20.720] And it's the complete opposite to the rest of us.
[14:20.720 -> 14:22.600] Where we start telling people what we do,
[14:22.600 -> 14:24.520] they start telling you what they believe.
[14:24.520 -> 14:26.880] And what they do simply serves as tangible proof
[14:26.880 -> 14:28.040] of what they believe.
[14:28.040 -> 14:30.360] And the magical thing about this little idea
[14:30.360 -> 14:33.040] is it's not my opinion, it's based on the biology
[14:33.040 -> 14:34.560] of how the human brain makes decisions.
[14:34.560 -> 14:36.140] Go on, tell us more about that.
[14:36.140 -> 14:38.120] There's a part of the brain called the neocortex,
[14:38.120 -> 14:39.400] which is our homo sapien brain,
[14:39.400 -> 14:40.960] it's the newest part of our brain.
[14:40.960 -> 14:44.260] It's responsible for all of our rational thoughts
[14:44.260 -> 14:45.820] and language. It's just not responsible for all of our rational thoughts and language.
[14:45.820 -> 14:47.440] It's just not responsible for decisions.
[14:47.440 -> 14:49.120] This is where the what exists, right?
[14:49.120 -> 14:51.240] It's very rational, easy to see, tangible.
[14:51.240 -> 14:53.680] The limbic part of our brain is responsible
[14:53.680 -> 14:56.720] for all of our feelings, like trust and loyalty.
[14:56.720 -> 14:59.040] This is where gut decisions come from.
[14:59.040 -> 15:02.000] It's also responsible for all of our behavior,
[15:02.000 -> 15:04.240] but it has no capacity for language,
[15:04.240 -> 15:05.120] which is why it's hard to put
[15:05.120 -> 15:10.200] feelings into words. This is why we use analogies and metaphors all the time. So when we start
[15:10.200 -> 15:16.000] with why you're actually talking to the decision-making part of the brain, that's why it feels inspiring.
[15:16.000 -> 15:20.160] This is why you light up or get goosebumps when you hear those kinds of messages or feel
[15:20.160 -> 15:24.800] like somebody is talking directly to you, as opposed to describing a product, which
[15:24.800 -> 15:27.720] you can understand, and it's all very rational.
[15:27.720 -> 15:29.720] And most people lead with the rational.
[15:29.720 -> 15:33.260] They're trying to make a tangible or a rational case
[15:33.260 -> 15:34.520] why you should or shouldn't do something
[15:34.520 -> 15:36.240] or buy or not buy something.
[15:36.240 -> 15:38.080] The great leaders inspire us to buy.
[15:38.080 -> 15:40.020] And again, it's just the biology.
[15:40.020 -> 15:41.160] So I love that point you make
[15:41.160 -> 15:44.440] about how like the neutrality of a language.
[15:44.440 -> 15:47.160] So there's a phrase that I heard an educationist talk about,
[15:47.160 -> 15:51.560] the language is psychologically privileged that you can get ideas in.
[15:52.400 -> 15:57.440] So if there's somebody listening to this that maybe wants to start exploring their why,
[15:58.040 -> 16:01.800] what's the kind of language or the questions that they should be asking
[16:02.040 -> 16:05.200] that sort of open up these kind of conversations.
[16:05.200 -> 16:06.200] For themselves?
[16:06.200 -> 16:10.520] Well, let's talk about for themselves initially and then maybe talk about how they can do
[16:10.520 -> 16:12.800] it with teams that they're part of.
[16:12.800 -> 16:13.800] Sure.
[16:13.800 -> 16:18.920] So, um, to do it for someone's, for yourself to learn your own why, um, first of all, understand
[16:18.920 -> 16:21.080] that a why is basically an origin story.
[16:21.080 -> 16:22.540] It's where you come from.
[16:22.540 -> 16:24.920] We are the products of our upbringing.
[16:24.920 -> 16:28.800] The experiences you had growing up make you who you are, make me who I am.
[16:28.800 -> 16:33.760] Your why is fully formed by your mid to late teens and it doesn't change for the rest of your life.
[16:33.760 -> 16:38.480] You have only one why, you are who you are. Now, whether you're living in balance with that is a
[16:38.480 -> 16:42.480] different conversation, whether you're making the decisions that are of high authenticity,
[16:42.480 -> 16:49.240] and that's all that authenticity means. Authenticity means the things that I say and the things that I do reflect who I actually am. That's
[16:49.240 -> 16:53.660] all it means. That's a different conversation. And so when you know your why, the ability
[16:53.660 -> 16:57.580] to make those choices becomes a lot easier. You know, we've all had the feeling of flow
[16:57.580 -> 17:01.040] and things like this, except it's a little bit like a roulette game. Like sometimes it
[17:01.040 -> 17:04.080] happens and sometimes it doesn't. It's like, I've done the same thing a thousand times.
[17:04.080 -> 17:06.080] How come it doesn't feel good anymore? So here's a
[17:06.080 -> 17:10.160] fun way you can learn your why. It's called the friend's exercise. Do this with a best
[17:10.160 -> 17:13.600] friend. Do not do this with a spouse, do not do this with a sibling, do not do this with
[17:13.600 -> 17:19.680] a parent. It doesn't work. Best friend. Somebody who loves you, who will be there for you.
[17:19.680 -> 17:21.840] They'll pick up the phone at 3 o'clock in the morning and you would do the same for
[17:21.840 -> 17:28.800] them. And ask them this simple question, why are we friends? And they're going to look at you like you're nuts because the part
[17:28.800 -> 17:32.720] of the brain that controls that deep feeling of love and trust doesn't control language. It's a
[17:32.720 -> 17:40.560] difficult question to answer. And so they'll say, I don't know. Of course they know, they just don't
[17:40.560 -> 17:48.800] have the words for it. And so you actually stop asking the question why and you ask the question what. What specifically is it about me? Come on, what specifically is it about me
[17:49.360 -> 17:53.840] that I know that you would be there for me no matter what? And they'll hemm and they'll haw
[17:53.840 -> 17:57.600] and they'll struggle and you can't help them and you can't let anybody else help them. You have to
[17:57.600 -> 18:03.280] let them go through the process. And they'll start describing you. I don't know, you're smart,
[18:03.280 -> 18:07.520] you're loyal, I trust you, And you play devil's advocate. Good.
[18:07.520 -> 18:11.840] That's the definition of a friend. You have that with lots of people. What specifically is it about
[18:11.840 -> 18:16.800] me that I know you would be there for me no matter what? And again, they'll go through a few rounds of
[18:16.800 -> 18:21.680] complaining and describing you. And eventually they'll quit and they'll start describing
[18:21.680 -> 18:27.920] themselves. And this is what my friend said to me. They said, I don't know, Simon. All I know is that I can sit in a room with you. I don't even
[18:27.920 -> 18:32.680] have to talk to you. And I feel inspired. And I got goosebumps. In fact, I'm getting
[18:32.680 -> 18:38.040] them right now. It happens every time. Because what they did is they put the value that I
[18:38.040 -> 18:43.680] have in the world into words and I had the emotional response and that's what will happen.
[18:43.680 -> 18:45.600] Somebody will say something that you will either get goosebumps
[18:45.600 -> 18:47.500] or you'll well up or something will happen.
[18:47.500 -> 18:48.900] That's when you know you've hit it.
[18:48.900 -> 18:50.300] Because the thing that you give to the world
[18:50.300 -> 18:52.900] that you should be working to give to the world consistently
[18:52.900 -> 18:54.600] is the reason those people love you.
[18:54.600 -> 18:57.200] It's the reason why you're not friends with everyone.
[18:57.200 -> 18:59.200] And if you do this with multiple friends,
[18:59.200 -> 19:01.300] the amazing thing is they will say very similar
[19:01.300 -> 19:03.400] if not the exact same thing
[19:03.400 -> 19:05.100] because that's the thing you give to the world.
[19:05.100 -> 19:06.000] That is your why,
[19:06.000 -> 19:08.580] is the reason you get out of bed in the morning.
[19:08.580 -> 19:10.480] It's a really fun exercise.
[19:10.480 -> 19:12.940] With teams, it's slightly different,
[19:12.940 -> 19:15.780] but even for companies, a why is still an origin story.
[19:15.780 -> 19:17.400] You know, where the company came from,
[19:17.400 -> 19:21.080] the founder's story is the why of the organization.
[19:21.080 -> 19:22.800] For teams, it's a little different.
[19:22.800 -> 19:25.880] In those cases, you wanna tell specific stories
[19:25.880 -> 19:29.640] that reflect why we love coming to work every day, right?
[19:29.640 -> 19:31.200] And by the way, you asked before,
[19:31.200 -> 19:34.320] like how do I communicate my way to other people?
[19:34.320 -> 19:35.560] Just remember, I'm not smarter,
[19:35.560 -> 19:36.880] I've just been doing this a lot longer,
[19:36.880 -> 19:40.000] so I'm practiced, which is why I can sort of wax on
[19:40.000 -> 19:41.760] about a vision or something like that,
[19:41.760 -> 19:44.520] just because it's taken me many, many iterations
[19:44.520 -> 19:45.720] to get it right.
[19:45.720 -> 19:49.040] The easiest way to do it is to simply say to somebody,
[19:49.040 -> 19:53.160] let me tell you why I love working here, not like, love.
[19:53.160 -> 19:54.480] Like is rational.
[19:54.480 -> 19:56.660] I like my job, I like the people, I get paid well,
[19:56.660 -> 19:57.500] I like my job.
[19:57.500 -> 19:58.800] Love is emotional.
[19:58.800 -> 20:02.840] It's like, the question is like, do you love your wife?
[20:02.840 -> 20:04.280] Yes, I like her a lot.
[20:04.280 -> 20:06.720] It's a different standard, right?
[20:06.720 -> 20:07.760] Love is a higher standard.
[20:07.760 -> 20:09.960] So when you talk about what you love,
[20:09.960 -> 20:11.200] it's profoundly different.
[20:11.200 -> 20:13.200] I'll give you a silly example.
[20:13.200 -> 20:15.840] Trying to communicate your ideas to someone,
[20:15.840 -> 20:18.480] whether it's selling a product,
[20:18.480 -> 20:20.580] selling yourself in an interview,
[20:20.580 -> 20:22.200] or just in a meeting with people,
[20:22.200 -> 20:24.040] just you want people to quote unquote,
[20:24.040 -> 20:28.560] buy your ideas, right? It's the same as dating. I mean, think about it. You sit across
[20:28.560 -> 20:32.000] a table from somebody and you hope to make the sale. You hope to make the deal, right?
[20:32.000 -> 20:38.320] That's what you want. So let's make a dating analogy. Let's take, um, let's call him Brian
[20:38.320 -> 20:42.440] and we send Brian out on a date and he sits down at the table with this girl that he was
[20:42.440 -> 20:49.160] set up with and this is how he starts the date He goes, I'm incredibly rich. I'm very successful
[20:49.400 -> 20:55.400] I'm on TV a lot, which is great because I'm quite good-looking. I know a lot of famous people
[20:56.000 -> 20:58.320] And I have a beautiful house. You should come by sometime
[20:59.200 -> 21:02.120] Now the question is how well did that date go?
[21:03.200 -> 21:07.000] Instinctively, we all know that was crap, right? But think
[21:07.000 -> 21:10.520] about how people sell their ideas or how companies sell themselves. It's like we're very, very
[21:10.520 -> 21:15.720] successful company. You may have seen our advertising on TV. We're very good at what
[21:15.720 -> 21:19.080] we do. We have beautiful offices. You should come by and see them sometime. Well, if we
[21:19.080 -> 21:22.680] know the date was crap, why would we think that that would work any better? The answer
[21:22.680 -> 21:26.660] is it doesn't. Now let's said send Brian back out again and
[21:27.500 -> 21:31.800] This time we'll arm him with his why and we'll say he doesn't know his why
[21:32.020 -> 21:37.180] But he can answer specific questions about love right? He can give specific examples. So
[21:37.900 -> 21:41.080] He sits down again, and he says, you know, I
[21:42.740 -> 21:44.640] Absolutely love my work
[21:44.640 -> 21:47.400] Just just three days ago,
[21:47.400 -> 21:50.120] one of my team members was struggling
[21:50.120 -> 21:52.640] and I just, I had the opportunity to just like,
[21:52.640 -> 21:55.120] I was walking down the hall and I was late for a meeting,
[21:55.120 -> 21:56.680] but I thought, you know what?
[21:56.680 -> 21:57.920] This is more important to me.
[21:57.920 -> 21:58.880] And I sat down with them
[21:58.880 -> 22:01.000] and like helped them figure out a problem.
[22:01.000 -> 22:04.480] And then I just went to my meeting and showed up late.
[22:04.480 -> 22:05.400] And when I explained why I was meeting and showed up late. And when
[22:05.400 -> 22:08.680] I explained why I was late, everybody said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course you did the right
[22:08.680 -> 22:14.400] thing. And I got to tell you, it is the most magical thing in the world to come to work
[22:14.400 -> 22:18.540] every day in a place where I get to do that and it's so appreciated. And the best thing
[22:18.540 -> 22:22.520] about it was I made a lot of money because of it. And I got to meet a lot of famous people.
[22:22.520 -> 22:28.120] I get to go on TV all the time, which is really great because I'm good looking. And I got to meet a lot of famous people. I get to go on TV all the time, which is really great because I'm good looking. And I got to buy a beautiful house. You should come
[22:28.120 -> 22:33.800] by sometime. Like all the same rational stuff is there, but how different did that feel?
[22:33.800 -> 22:40.440] And so now the rational stuff is the proof, but it's not the reason to buy. So if you
[22:40.440 -> 22:46.000] can tell a specific story of what you love, and it's a high bar, you have to love it.
[22:46.000 -> 22:49.000] It's a way to attract people who love the same thing.
[22:49.000 -> 22:51.000] And the best thing about it is it's a filter.
[22:51.000 -> 22:53.000] Because there are some people listening to that story and think,
[22:53.000 -> 22:56.000] that's cheesy, we're not going to do well together in business.
[22:56.000 -> 23:00.000] So it's a fantastic filter that it attracts the right people and repels the wrong people.
[23:00.000 -> 23:01.000] Brilliant.
[23:02.000 -> 23:05.640] Now at this point in the conversation Simon offered to help me
[23:05.640 -> 23:11.440] find my why. Here's a small example of what we discussed. You had that experience
[23:11.440 -> 23:14.240] of sitting in the back of the car. Yeah. Your mom probably trying to keep your
[23:14.240 -> 23:18.960] dad awake you know. Was there something in particular about this one or is that
[23:18.960 -> 23:22.920] just one you found to try and capture the general the general memory? I think
[23:22.920 -> 23:28.380] it was because my parents were really busy so my dad used my dad was a charity worker, but also was doing a degree while we were kids
[23:28.380 -> 23:30.640] My mom was a full-time teacher. Mm-hmm. So there wasn't
[23:31.160 -> 23:36.340] Loads of like we weren't a family that did loads of stuff actually mom and dad were like they worked basically
[23:36.640 -> 23:42.000] And then the weekends were a list of jobs Saturday and Sunday and they still like that even now in their 70s
[23:42.000 -> 23:44.300] They just have you go in the house. They have a list of jobs all the time
[23:44.300 -> 23:47.400] Mm-hmm, and I think it was just like that was gone. Then it was just
[23:47.920 -> 23:51.760] We were just together at those moments. So that's why that stands out far more than
[23:52.520 -> 23:55.800] Being at home really like I wouldn't really pick up on anything
[23:56.520 -> 24:02.220] So it's the the joy of going on the adventure with the family. Yeah, or maybe two people who are more adult than you
[24:02.560 -> 24:05.120] Yeah, yeah, kind of like the Formula One example
[24:05.440 -> 24:06.360] Yes, right
[24:06.360 -> 24:12.720] So the stories are very very similar which is wasn't you standing by yourself in the pit lane, right?
[24:12.840 -> 24:16.840] It was you said it was these two people that you're standing with
[24:17.280 -> 24:23.220] You know a race car driver and a and a multimillionaire team owner, you know, kind of like mom and dad
[24:23.220 -> 24:25.360] You know a charity worker and a teacher
[24:25.360 -> 24:26.640] who are highly qualified people.
[24:26.640 -> 24:28.320] But in that moment, you're just a family
[24:28.320 -> 24:29.360] and you're a part of that family.
[24:29.360 -> 24:31.200] And you may be the youngest least qualified person,
[24:31.200 -> 24:33.440] but you're still a part of the family.
[24:33.440 -> 24:36.880] And those two are exactly the same story.
[24:36.880 -> 24:38.880] That incredible sense of like, oh my God,
[24:38.880 -> 24:41.320] like this is it, I love this.
[24:41.320 -> 24:42.480] I'm in the car with them.
[24:42.480 -> 24:44.200] This is it.
[24:44.200 -> 24:45.140] And everybody's relaxed and we're enjoying ourselves. And I'm a part love this. I'm in the car with them. You know, this is it. And everybody's relaxed
[24:45.140 -> 24:49.680] and we're enjoying ourselves and I'm a part of this. You know, and they see me as equal.
[24:49.680 -> 24:54.680] You know, they didn't look down on me. And you said, I feel like I've arrived. You feel
[24:54.680 -> 25:06.840] like I'm here. But it was also that they treated you that way. You know? And so much your why is is very much about?
[25:08.920 -> 25:10.000] Feeling a part of the family feeling a part of the team
[25:13.200 -> 25:13.600] And I would venture to say that you're at your happiest
[25:19.640 -> 25:20.760] When you are working with people in common cause to do something together and where you struggle is when you're asked to do things alone
[25:25.720 -> 25:30.680] And to hear that in full download the high-performance app for free right now and you can hear the full conversation as Simon guided me through finding my own why.
[25:30.680 -> 25:34.540] Simply search for high performance in the app store right now and then use your exclusive
[25:34.540 -> 25:36.940] code HP app to get in.
[25:36.940 -> 25:38.640] Right, back to the conversation.
[25:38.640 -> 25:45.800] So if we turn the lens onto yourself, how did you come to discover your why then?
[25:45.800 -> 25:51.120] So I reached a point in my career where I had fallen out of love with my work.
[25:51.120 -> 25:53.480] Superficially my life was good.
[25:53.480 -> 25:56.840] You know, I owned my own business, we had amazing clients, we did amazing work.
[25:56.840 -> 25:57.840] Doing what?
[25:57.840 -> 26:04.480] I had a marketing consultancy in New York and I didn't want to wake up and do it anymore.
[26:04.480 -> 26:05.340] I was done.
[26:05.340 -> 26:07.860] And was that a sudden realization of a darling one?
[26:07.860 -> 26:12.020] I mean, you know, these things always feel sudden
[26:12.020 -> 26:14.100] but they've been, you know, it's a slow boiling frog
[26:14.100 -> 26:16.000] until you realize the water's boiling.
[26:17.060 -> 26:18.500] So the answer is, who knows?
[26:18.500 -> 26:22.100] It showed up, you know?
[26:22.100 -> 26:23.940] Like how long does it take to feel depressed?
[26:23.940 -> 26:26.800] I, you know, I don't does it take to feel depressed? I don't know. And
[26:26.800 -> 26:33.480] I was deeply embarrassed feeling bad because I shouldn't look what I'm doing. Look at the
[26:33.480 -> 26:39.480] things I'm getting to do. Like I shouldn't be depressed or, you know, not want to go
[26:39.480 -> 26:45.680] to work. And so I kept it all those negative feelings to myself, which really is stupid. And the
[26:45.680 -> 26:49.760] feelings got darker and darker and darker and they feed on each they feed on themselves.
[26:50.560 -> 26:54.160] And that's the problem with keeping negative feelings to yourself. They they fester and grow.
[26:54.800 -> 26:59.120] And it got to the point where I was in really a dark place. But all of my energy went into
[26:59.120 -> 27:03.360] pretending that I was happier, more in control and more successful than I really felt. So nobody knew.
[27:03.360 -> 27:07.440] And it wasn't until a very dear friend of mine came to me and said, there's something wrong. There's
[27:07.440 -> 27:12.120] something different. I don't know what it is, but something's off. And I, for whatever
[27:12.120 -> 27:16.480] reason I opened up and came clean and it was cathartic. You know, it was a weight lifted
[27:16.480 -> 27:21.920] off my shoulders and all of that energy that went into lying, hiding and faking every day.
[27:21.920 -> 27:25.360] I now had new energy, renewed energy to actually find a solution.
[27:26.080 -> 27:32.720] I'll spare you the long drawn out story, but I had already articulated this idea of the why and
[27:32.720 -> 27:36.480] the golden circle to explain why some marketing worked and some marketing didn't. And it was the
[27:36.480 -> 27:41.680] discovery of the human brain, the limbic brain and the neocortex, which I learned at a dinner
[27:41.680 -> 27:46.320] party of sitting next to somebody who their dad was a a neuroscientist, I mean it was just like polite conversation
[27:46.320 -> 27:48.520] and like bells started going off
[27:48.520 -> 27:51.240] and I realized it didn't explain why marketing worked,
[27:51.240 -> 27:53.040] it explained why people do what they do
[27:53.040 -> 27:54.560] and I realized this was my problem,
[27:54.560 -> 27:55.840] I knew what I did,
[27:55.840 -> 27:58.200] I knew how I did it but I couldn't tell you why,
[27:58.200 -> 27:59.920] that's what I needed to find
[27:59.920 -> 28:01.680] and I couldn't do it for myself
[28:01.680 -> 28:04.240] and so I brought in an outsider who had objectivity
[28:04.240 -> 28:05.880] and took me through some sort of
[28:05.880 -> 28:07.820] version of his process and mine.
[28:08.720 -> 28:09.560] That really helped.
[28:09.560 -> 28:11.060] But the more important thing was I figured out
[28:11.060 -> 28:13.100] how to help my friends find their why.
[28:13.100 -> 28:14.120] And that's what I started doing.
[28:14.120 -> 28:15.880] I started helping my friends find their why.
[28:15.880 -> 28:17.440] There's an element of your story there,
[28:17.440 -> 28:18.600] and thank you for sharing it,
[28:18.600 -> 28:21.920] that I think takes courage to do that,
[28:21.920 -> 28:23.700] whether it was that friend of yours
[28:23.700 -> 28:27.520] that has just spotted that something is off with you,
[28:27.520 -> 28:30.840] to ask you that, the courage to open up and be honest
[28:30.840 -> 28:33.280] and be vulnerable with them is something
[28:33.280 -> 28:36.840] that I think doesn't get referred to enough.
[28:36.840 -> 28:39.080] Thank you, but I disagree.
[28:40.000 -> 28:40.840] Because?
[28:40.840 -> 28:42.960] I think my friend had the courage, not me.
[28:42.960 -> 28:45.680] I think it's really hard when your friends say to you
[28:45.680 -> 28:46.520] there's something wrong and you go,
[28:46.520 -> 28:47.680] no, everything's fine.
[28:47.680 -> 28:49.680] And then they let it go.
[28:49.680 -> 28:52.880] Or they're not even willing to say something's off.
[28:52.880 -> 28:54.880] They just kind of, it's too uncomfortable.
[28:54.880 -> 28:56.720] You know, we don't like discomfort.
[28:56.720 -> 28:58.920] We certainly don't like causing discomfort
[28:58.920 -> 29:01.480] and we certainly don't want to create tension or a fight.
[29:01.480 -> 29:04.460] And so we just leave it.
[29:04.460 -> 29:06.840] And I think the courageous friends, the friends
[29:06.840 -> 29:11.000] who truly, truly, truly love you, are the ones who will lean into that tension and go,
[29:11.000 -> 29:16.440] I don't care what you say, and I know you're lying to me. I love you to death and I know
[29:16.440 -> 29:25.000] something's wrong. And I'm going to keep asking you until you tell me. And more importantly, whatever it is, I got you.
[29:26.580 -> 29:27.420] I love you.
[29:28.240 -> 29:29.440] You're safe.
[29:29.440 -> 29:31.520] I don't know what it is and I don't care what it is.
[29:31.520 -> 29:35.080] Just know that I'm your partner and you are never alone.
[29:35.080 -> 29:36.840] And the friend who helped me,
[29:36.840 -> 29:39.320] that became the way we said I love you to each other.
[29:39.320 -> 29:41.440] We used to say, you're never alone,
[29:41.440 -> 29:43.640] because that's how it all started.
[29:43.640 -> 29:45.980] She said to me, you're not alone here.
[29:45.980 -> 29:48.940] So I think she had the courage to get me to open up
[29:48.940 -> 29:51.340] and then I just stepped into the safe space.
[29:51.340 -> 29:53.420] So if we accept that courage was present.
[29:53.420 -> 29:54.260] For sure.
[29:54.260 -> 29:55.080] There.
[29:55.080 -> 29:55.920] For sure.
[29:55.920 -> 29:56.760] I just won't take the credit.
[29:56.760 -> 29:59.740] Yeah, no, and that's very noble of you.
[29:59.740 -> 30:02.940] But I think the reason I'm asking that is because
[30:02.940 -> 30:06.440] for anyone listening to this, Simon, I'm interested in you
[30:06.840 -> 30:13.520] Articulating what are the benefits have been prepared to ask these questions? They're often unanswered
[30:14.400 -> 30:16.820] Yeah, I mean, you know human beings are
[30:17.920 -> 30:19.920] despite our own
[30:20.320 -> 30:25.960] Opinions, we're not that strong and we're not that smart, but in teams and groups, we're amazing.
[30:25.960 -> 30:32.360] And so trying to solve your own life problems by yourself, I've got some really bad news.
[30:32.360 -> 30:38.440] You can't, which is why addiction exists, because I can't solve these problems myself.
[30:38.440 -> 30:42.280] I can't overcome the stress myself. So I'm going to drink, you know,
[30:42.280 -> 30:47.520] or I'm going to do something else That's harmful to myself my family and my relationships as all
[30:48.200 -> 30:54.760] Addictions are whether you're addicted to your cell phone addicted to alcohol addicted to drugs. You're gonna destroy your relationships. You're gonna destroy yourself
[30:55.520 -> 30:59.740] There is tremendous value and it does take courage. You're right
[31:00.380 -> 31:08.640] For somebody who loves you to say, I got you, I'm here, let's do this together.
[31:08.640 -> 31:11.040] Or for you to call a friend and say,
[31:11.040 -> 31:16.040] I think I'm struggling and I think I can't do this alone,
[31:16.120 -> 31:17.280] can you help me?
[31:17.280 -> 31:21.280] It's humiliating, but it is perhaps the single greatest
[31:21.280 -> 31:23.460] lesson that any human being can learn,
[31:23.460 -> 31:30.240] which is to say, I don't know and I need help. And if you can learn that, and you can do it in the worst of times, you can do it all the
[31:30.240 -> 31:34.960] time. You can do it with silly things. For those who know my work, you know, I regularly call
[31:34.960 -> 31:39.600] myself an idiot, you know, and I do think of myself as an idiot, because I have no problem
[31:39.600 -> 31:42.720] saying, I don't know, can somebody who knows who's smarter than me, explain this to me.
[31:42.720 -> 31:47.220] I'm under no false illusion that I have to present myself
[31:47.220 -> 31:48.820] as the smartest person in the room,
[31:48.820 -> 31:51.660] because I'm not, you know?
[31:51.660 -> 31:53.620] And where I'm good, I might know a sliver of something,
[31:53.620 -> 31:55.340] but my goodness, everything else we're talking about,
[31:55.340 -> 31:56.180] I know nothing.
[31:57.300 -> 32:00.140] And I think being comfortable with asking for help
[32:00.140 -> 32:01.440] and saying, I don't know,
[32:02.540 -> 32:04.220] it turns out we're surrounded by people
[32:04.220 -> 32:07.240] who want to take care of us and help us, but they don't because they didn't think we needed it because we're
[32:07.240 -> 32:11.880] too busy presenting ourselves as perfect and having all the answers. So they just didn't,
[32:11.880 -> 32:16.000] but they would if we just asked. And, you know, I have a, I have a small group of friends
[32:16.000 -> 32:20.720] where, you know, we, we have a deal and, you know, I have a couple of friends that are
[32:20.720 -> 32:25.740] super senior, super high performing, high performing by all traditional definitions.
[32:25.740 -> 32:28.080] And I remember the first time one of us called the other
[32:28.080 -> 32:31.520] and said, I'm stuck, which is really difficult to do
[32:31.520 -> 32:33.940] because you wanna look smart and strong
[32:33.940 -> 32:37.600] to people who you respect and they're so smart and strong.
[32:37.600 -> 32:39.200] And I have one of my dearest friends,
[32:39.200 -> 32:42.240] he's in the military, he's a senior officer
[32:42.240 -> 32:45.360] in the US Air Force, active duty still. I remember the first time he called me brother, which in the military is a, he's a senior officer in the US Air Force, active duty still.
[32:45.360 -> 32:47.460] I remember the first time he called me brother,
[32:47.460 -> 32:49.220] which in the military is a big deal.
[32:49.220 -> 32:50.980] You know, you and I have colleagues and coworkers,
[32:50.980 -> 32:52.900] they have brothers and sisters.
[32:52.900 -> 32:54.520] And so they call each other brother
[32:54.520 -> 32:57.260] and they call each other sister, and it's an amazing thing.
[32:57.260 -> 32:58.620] And I remember the first time he said,
[32:58.620 -> 33:00.020] all right, brother, I'll talk to you later,
[33:00.020 -> 33:00.860] or hey, brother.
[33:00.860 -> 33:03.140] And I was like, like, that means the relationship
[33:03.140 -> 33:04.500] was different now, you know?
[33:04.500 -> 33:07.820] And he's a warrior. I mean, he's a hardcore,
[33:07.820 -> 33:09.500] he's an amazing human being.
[33:09.500 -> 33:12.140] And when we get off the phone, he'll say, I love you,
[33:13.260 -> 33:14.740] or he'll text me and say, I miss you.
[33:14.740 -> 33:15.980] Not just miss you, I miss you,
[33:15.980 -> 33:18.100] which is way more vulnerable.
[33:18.100 -> 33:20.100] And it's deeply human.
[33:20.100 -> 33:22.260] And he and I are, we call each other and say,
[33:22.260 -> 33:23.340] I'm struggling or I'm stuck.
[33:23.340 -> 33:27.000] And sometimes it's business, I just need your opinion, but sometimes it's personal.
[33:27.000 -> 33:37.000] Sometimes it's frustration, you know, can I talk to him? So freaking frustrated, but to have to foster those relationships, those relationships take a lot of work to get to.
[33:37.000 -> 33:45.800] They don't just show up and they do require risk. You know, at some point you open up a little bit, but to have those kinds of friendships, I think are absolutely essential to being
[33:45.800 -> 33:47.920] what we would call a high-performance human being.
[33:47.920 -> 33:49.580] I don't think you can be high-performance by yourself.
[33:49.580 -> 33:51.680] I don't think it exists.
[33:51.680 -> 33:53.640] And anybody who does is,
[33:53.640 -> 33:56.280] they're either not as high-performing as they think they are,
[33:56.280 -> 33:59.500] or they are high-performing, but at tremendous cost.
[34:00.520 -> 34:04.200] They're lonely, they need pills to start the day,
[34:04.200 -> 34:06.040] they have other issues, they'll have
[34:06.040 -> 34:07.600] health issues later in life.
[34:07.600 -> 34:12.480] I think if you choose to be quote-unquote high-performing by yourself, it comes at a
[34:12.480 -> 34:13.960] cost that I think is not worth it.
[34:13.960 -> 34:17.600] And can I just applaud that message because I think, particularly for young people now
[34:17.600 -> 34:22.260] listening to podcasts, logging onto social media sites, Instagram, all these other things,
[34:22.260 -> 34:26.040] we seem to lord the self-made success story and everybody
[34:26.040 -> 34:29.640] wants to tell us they did it on their own. I think it's so good to hear this.
[34:29.640 -> 34:39.240] Matthew 49. Yeah. I heard this amazing story from Steven Spielberg where he said that he
[34:39.240 -> 34:45.960] hears his name, he gets thank yous, like people thank him from the stage when they're receiving an Oscar,
[34:45.960 -> 34:49.320] that he actually doesn't know and has never helped.
[34:49.320 -> 34:52.160] But the people who he's actually helped don't thank him.
[34:53.160 -> 34:55.840] Because there's this fear that if I thank Steven Spielberg
[34:55.840 -> 34:58.480] for helping me, that somehow it devalues
[34:58.480 -> 34:59.880] the fact that I earned an Oscar,
[34:59.880 -> 35:02.160] which of course is nonsense, it doesn't.
[35:02.160 -> 35:03.520] But there's this deep-seated insecurity
[35:03.520 -> 35:09.040] that I can't thank anybody or say that I got any help, that I'm the, I'm the, look how great
[35:09.040 -> 35:15.260] I am. And the reality is, is not a single person in the world made it without advice
[35:15.260 -> 35:20.440] from someone, a favor from someone, a door open from someone, a shoulder to cry on from
[35:20.440 -> 35:23.960] someone, someone to vent to, you know, at the end of a difficult day, anybody.
[35:23.960 -> 35:24.960] Matthew 15
[35:24.960 -> 35:26.040] Even people that cause problems in your life, bullies at school, you know, at the end of a difficult day, anybody. And they make it like even, I don't know,
[35:26.040 -> 35:27.480] people that cause problems in your life,
[35:27.480 -> 35:29.720] bullies at school, like, they're all collaborators.
[35:29.720 -> 35:30.560] They're all collaborators.
[35:30.560 -> 35:31.560] Because they've built your resilience,
[35:31.560 -> 35:33.600] your understanding of human nature.
[35:33.600 -> 35:35.640] Nothing's a solo journey in this world.
[35:35.640 -> 35:37.880] And to thank people who really did thank you
[35:37.880 -> 35:40.180] is I think humble, right?
[35:40.180 -> 35:41.400] And anybody who presents themselves
[35:41.400 -> 35:43.680] like they're the lone wolf that triumphed
[35:43.680 -> 35:46.880] and won these awards and achieved this wealth and power and fortune or whatever it is
[35:47.440 -> 35:49.600] The joke is we know you're lying
[35:50.800 -> 35:56.400] If you're a human being I know you're a liar, right? So why not just come clean and i'll actually think really highly of you
[35:57.120 -> 35:59.520] There'll be people listening to this now that think
[36:00.240 -> 36:02.240] Man, this guy's got it together
[36:02.400 -> 36:05.040] He understands himself. He understands the world. He understands
[36:05.040 -> 36:07.040] business understands leadership
[36:07.560 -> 36:09.560] When you found your why yeah
[36:10.520 -> 36:17.200] Does it take away the doubt and the fear and the bad days and the insecurities? No, of course not
[36:18.000 -> 36:19.720] It helps me
[36:19.720 -> 36:23.440] Understand the times when things went well why they went well
[36:23.720 -> 36:26.720] It helps me understand the times that things went badly,
[36:26.720 -> 36:28.000] why they went badly.
[36:28.000 -> 36:30.000] And it helps me make choices so that I put myself
[36:30.000 -> 36:32.440] in a position of strength more often than not.
[36:32.440 -> 36:34.800] So for example, I hate the conversation
[36:34.800 -> 36:35.980] about strengths and weaknesses.
[36:35.980 -> 36:36.820] What are your strengths?
[36:36.820 -> 36:37.640] What are your weaknesses?
[36:37.640 -> 36:38.960] I think it's a stupid conversation
[36:38.960 -> 36:41.860] because everything requires context, right?
[36:41.860 -> 36:43.720] You don't have strengths or weaknesses.
[36:43.720 -> 36:46.960] You have characteristics and attributes.
[36:46.960 -> 36:51.000] And in the right context, those things are strengths. And in the wrong context, the wrong
[36:51.000 -> 36:56.280] environment, those things are weaknesses. Always, right? So it's better to know who
[36:56.280 -> 37:00.860] you are and then look for the environments in which those things will be advantages.
[37:00.860 -> 37:08.080] So for example, if somebody came to me and said Simon, your work's amazing. We're going to offer you 10 million pounds to
[37:08.800 -> 37:12.000] Do whatever work for us and we're going to lock you in a room by yourself for three weeks
[37:12.480 -> 37:16.400] And and let you get at it right now superficially most people like
[37:17.180 -> 37:22.720] Amazing, but I know that if I say yes to that deal, one of two things is absolutely going to happen
[37:23.280 -> 37:25.680] One I suck at working by myself,
[37:25.680 -> 37:30.840] right? I know this, this is an attribute. I like being on a team. It is an attribute,
[37:30.840 -> 37:34.440] not a strength, not a weakness, an attribute. So if you make me work by myself, one of two
[37:34.440 -> 37:38.640] things is absolutely going to happen. The quality will suck. So I'll give you work and
[37:38.640 -> 37:45.460] they go, wait, no, we didn't pay for this, right? Or the stress that it's gonna take me
[37:45.460 -> 37:47.040] to get some sort of decent product,
[37:47.040 -> 37:50.720] it'll destroy my health and everything, right?
[37:50.720 -> 37:53.120] The stress is just tremendous.
[37:53.120 -> 37:54.800] If anybody ever came to me with that offer,
[37:54.800 -> 37:56.520] I would say, thank you,
[37:56.520 -> 37:59.040] but I would like a team of people, please,
[37:59.040 -> 38:00.240] that I get to choose.
[38:00.240 -> 38:02.640] And you can lock the team in the room for three weeks
[38:02.640 -> 38:04.560] and we'll come up with the product.
[38:04.560 -> 38:05.760] Because now I'm taking my attribute
[38:05.760 -> 38:07.880] and I'm putting myself in a position of strength.
[38:07.880 -> 38:09.920] And so one of the things that when I learned my why
[38:09.920 -> 38:11.120] and I learned my hows,
[38:11.120 -> 38:14.800] it helped me better navigate and create the environments
[38:14.800 -> 38:18.600] that make me more likely to be in a position of strength
[38:18.600 -> 38:19.680] than not.
[38:19.680 -> 38:21.220] That's all it is.
[38:21.220 -> 38:22.840] And if I couldn't make it work,
[38:22.840 -> 38:24.400] at least I went in with eyes wide open going,
[38:24.400 -> 38:25.520] this is gonna suck, but at least I'm in with eyes wide open going this is gonna suck
[38:25.800 -> 38:29.380] But at least I'm gonna do it for a short period of time and I think the cost is worth it
[38:29.380 -> 38:33.240] Um, because I always weigh the cost of everything but everything comes at a cost
[38:34.040 -> 38:39.040] There's a there's a cost for the money you make there's a cost for your career. There's a cost for your relationships and
[38:40.160 -> 38:44.160] There's nothing wrong with that. Just like there's a cost to buy a cup of coffee, right?
[38:44.160 -> 38:46.300] The question is was the cost worth it?
[38:46.300 -> 38:50.520] You know, was this coffee worth five pounds, right?
[38:50.520 -> 38:51.880] If the answer's yes, spend it.
[38:51.880 -> 38:54.000] If the answer's no, find somewhere else to spend it
[38:54.000 -> 38:55.120] or look for something cheaper.
[38:55.120 -> 38:56.960] And so I always weigh the cost and say,
[38:56.960 -> 38:58.340] is it worth the cost?
[38:58.340 -> 38:59.480] And if the answer's yes, I'll do it.
[38:59.480 -> 39:01.980] And if the answer's no, I'll work very hard not to.
[39:01.920 -> 39:06.520] I'll work very hard not to.
[39:07.960 -> 39:10.300] Today's podcast is brought to you in association with AG1,
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[42:39.440 -> 42:46.760] mint mobile for details I mean this is
[42:44.800 -> 42:47.680] fascinating because we've done over for details. I mean this is fascinating
[42:45.420 -> 42:50.200] because we've done over 200 of these
[42:47.680 -> 42:52.400] interviews Simon, where we often come
[42:50.200 -> 42:54.280] back to the teaching of Howard Gardner,
[42:52.400 -> 42:56.880] the educational psychologist that has
[42:54.280 -> 42:58.680] that great line of don't ask people how
[42:56.880 -> 43:00.560] clever they are, instead ask them how
[42:58.680 -> 43:02.960] are they clever. And a really good
[43:00.560 -> 43:05.680] example of that was when we interviewed
[43:02.960 -> 43:09.320] Jo Malone, she's a perfumier and she spoke about how in the school environment,
[43:09.320 -> 43:12.000] she came from a broken home, so she was working extra jobs
[43:12.000 -> 43:13.520] over evening and weekends.
[43:13.520 -> 43:15.640] She was dyslexic, it hadn't been diagnosed.
[43:15.640 -> 43:17.960] So in the school environment, when she was yawning
[43:17.960 -> 43:19.320] because she'd been working the night before,
[43:19.320 -> 43:21.240] she was diagnosed as being lazy.
[43:21.240 -> 43:24.640] When she couldn't understand the work, she was diagnosed as being stupid.
[43:24.640 -> 43:28.280] And she said it was when she took herself outside of that environment that she realized
[43:28.280 -> 43:33.480] she had this amazing ability to take ingredients and create beautiful smells.
[43:33.480 -> 43:39.920] So we're seeing this pattern remarkably frequently amongst our high performers that you're describing.
[43:39.920 -> 43:45.500] I'm interested in how, again, our listeners could identify their characteristics and their
[43:45.500 -> 43:50.700] attributes so that they can put themselves in environments where they thrive.
[43:50.700 -> 43:55.780] Um, I mean, you have to be honest with yourself as one, which is, you know, you don't have
[43:55.780 -> 43:59.820] to beat yourself up, but you don't have to rationalize and make sure that everything's
[43:59.820 -> 44:05.520] good, which is most people have some sense of self-awareness, you know, you know, do you
[44:05.520 -> 44:07.040] work better by yourself or on a team?
[44:07.040 -> 44:11.660] You can answer that one, you know, do you work better under stress or do you need like
[44:11.660 -> 44:17.140] time, you know, are you the kind of person who, you know, you get good grades but you
[44:17.140 -> 44:21.460] need to study a lot or your grades are fine, but you didn't study that much.
[44:21.460 -> 44:27.500] Like I always believe grades should be ratios, you know,'s like the the the grade achieved over number of hours studied
[44:28.960 -> 44:33.220] So if you need a first and you're willing to give someone 50 hours, that's your person
[44:33.220 -> 44:37.080] But if you're willing to sacrifice quality a little bit, but you need it done in an hour
[44:37.080 -> 44:39.760] I got somebody else for you over here not better or worse
[44:40.600 -> 44:46.680] Different right and I think what we have done is we falsely assume that high levels of achievement is
[44:48.000 -> 44:51.880] The most important so if you get the top grades, it means you're the smartest in the room
[44:51.880 -> 44:55.080] But again, not if it took you 50 hours and I need somebody who can work under pressure
[44:55.560 -> 45:00.360] Yeah, right. So most of us kind of know that how do you learn?
[45:01.000 -> 45:05.120] Can you skip class and just do all the reading and you'll do well on the
[45:05.120 -> 45:09.460] test or do you have to go to class because you have to hear it? Like are you an oral
[45:09.460 -> 45:14.680] learner or are you a visual learner? You know? How do you take notes? You know, all of these
[45:14.680 -> 45:19.640] things, anybody who's a little bit introspective can figure out where they did well. Like I
[45:19.640 -> 45:25.000] cannot go and I have ADHD so reading is pointless to me. It's literally pointless.
[45:25.000 -> 45:28.000] And so, I still have to pass school.
[45:28.000 -> 45:32.000] And so I'm a great believer that the solutions we find to the struggles we have as children
[45:32.000 -> 45:34.000] become our strengths as adults.
[45:34.000 -> 45:38.000] So, I'm at school with ADHD, I can't read, I mean I can physically read,
[45:38.000 -> 45:39.000] I just don't comprehend.
[45:39.000 -> 45:40.000] And had it been diagnosed?
[45:40.000 -> 45:42.000] No, no, no, I didn't get diagnosed until an adult.
[45:42.000 -> 45:45.320] And so, many similar things, you know,
[45:45.320 -> 45:48.640] hyperactive kid who was accused of being selfish
[45:48.640 -> 45:50.960] or didn't care about people because I was absent-minded.
[45:50.960 -> 45:53.680] I forgot a lot of things that I was supposed to remember.
[45:53.680 -> 45:54.840] If you believe a lot of that stuff,
[45:54.840 -> 45:56.680] it'll destroy your self-worth.
[45:56.680 -> 45:58.680] And there were definitely moments where that happened.
[45:58.680 -> 45:59.740] You know, I'm like, oh my God,
[45:59.740 -> 46:02.160] I'm a selfish, horrible human being, you know?
[46:02.160 -> 46:04.240] But thank goodness it wasn't diagnosed
[46:04.240 -> 46:06.120] because even though there were difficulties
[46:06.120 -> 46:08.160] that came with it and there was definitely struggle,
[46:08.160 -> 46:10.680] the hacks that I figured out because I had to pass school
[46:10.680 -> 46:13.680] was I had to go to class, couldn't skip class.
[46:13.680 -> 46:15.280] I needed really good teachers
[46:15.280 -> 46:16.960] who were good at explaining things.
[46:16.960 -> 46:19.400] I couldn't have them teach from a book
[46:19.400 -> 46:22.560] because I had to enjoy myself in class.
[46:22.560 -> 46:25.440] I had to go after class and talk to the teacher because
[46:25.440 -> 46:29.960] the conversation helped me learn. And then I did fine. You know? And so I got really
[46:29.960 -> 46:33.040] good at asking questions and I got really good at listening. Well, look what I do for
[46:33.040 -> 46:37.680] a living. All of those skills were formed. And so why am I good at connecting patterns
[46:37.680 -> 46:40.800] with just a couple of examples? Well, that comes from my childhood because I had to pass
[46:40.800 -> 46:45.680] the test. So I needed to get as much information from as short a period of time as I could
[46:45.680 -> 46:48.120] because I got to figure this stuff out.
[46:48.120 -> 46:49.360] Like, it doesn't make me smarter,
[46:49.360 -> 46:50.800] it just means I figured out a life hack.
[46:50.800 -> 46:52.840] And I think, you know, in this modern day and age,
[46:52.840 -> 46:56.340] we're so afraid of our kids being in positions of discomfort
[46:56.340 -> 46:58.520] that we're removing all the struggle, you know,
[46:58.520 -> 47:00.400] we're putting them on big pillows and saying,
[47:00.400 -> 47:02.560] let me make this as easy as possible for you.
[47:02.560 -> 47:04.960] Now, of course, every parent wants to make life easy,
[47:04.960 -> 47:07.960] but if you talk to the quote unquote high performing people in the
[47:07.960 -> 47:11.800] world, I mean, there's that very famous story about Richard Branson, where his mom would
[47:11.800 -> 47:16.160] drop him off three miles from home and say, see you at home. And he'd have to figure out
[47:16.160 -> 47:19.920] how to get home. And she would always tell the funny story how this, whatever it was,
[47:19.920 -> 47:23.760] you know, half an hour, 20 minute walk would take him three hours because he kept stopping
[47:23.760 -> 47:28.020] to like, look at all the flowers and look at all the bugs. And now you understand a guy with
[47:28.020 -> 47:33.840] a tremendous ability to solve problems and with insatiable curiosity. Well, duh, you
[47:33.840 -> 47:38.520] know, like go look at how he was raised. And you talked about it in the Bulliett school.
[47:38.520 -> 47:47.260] Like, you know, adversity is the best teacher in the world. And if we over coddle and oversimplify,
[47:47.260 -> 47:51.900] then we're not allowing people to learn who they are,
[47:51.900 -> 47:53.100] what they're made of.
[47:53.100 -> 47:55.660] And I'm not just talking grit, that's too obvious.
[47:55.660 -> 47:59.140] I'm literally mean like the thing that makes you you.
[47:59.140 -> 48:00.700] And every single one of us,
[48:00.700 -> 48:03.180] you talk to anybody who's what we,
[48:03.180 -> 48:05.600] the world would consider high performing,
[48:05.600 -> 48:11.280] assuming that they're healthy, you know, um, they, they all overcame something. Every one
[48:11.280 -> 48:15.300] of them, you know, Elon Musk was horribly bullied. There's lots and lots of stories
[48:15.300 -> 48:20.080] of ADHD and dyslexia and you know, tons of those in the entrepreneurial world, especially
[48:20.080 -> 48:29.020] we've had many on this podcast, you Yeah, people who've suffered huge physical Yeah injuries or childhood traumas and this sort of sense of you know post-traumatic growth
[48:29.060 -> 48:33.540] Yeah, it's very common. Yeah conversations that we have and again, that's perspective, right? Yeah
[48:34.160 -> 48:36.160] Everyone will go through stress
[48:36.180 -> 48:38.740] Everyone will go through trauma a hundred percent
[48:39.580 -> 48:44.340] And trauma will have side effects. I believe the world is always balanced
[48:44.340 -> 48:46.720] Yes, there are costs but there's also benefits. And so if you go through balanced. Yes, there are costs, but there's also benefits.
[48:46.720 -> 48:48.360] And so if you go through trauma, yes,
[48:48.360 -> 48:50.320] there will be costs and there's also benefits.
[48:50.320 -> 48:51.840] You know, go back and look at COVID and say,
[48:51.840 -> 48:53.440] and you know, when people talk about lockdown
[48:53.440 -> 48:56.060] and oh, this is what happened and how awful it was.
[48:56.060 -> 49:00.080] And this is what, now ask yourself, and what was good?
[49:00.080 -> 49:01.920] And I bet you can come up with an equal number
[49:01.920 -> 49:03.440] because it's always balanced.
[49:03.440 -> 49:05.240] The question is, are you looking for it?
[49:05.240 -> 49:08.000] I guess maybe because of natural disposition
[49:08.000 -> 49:10.000] or just learned, who knows.
[49:10.000 -> 49:15.000] But my natural disposition is to look for the benefits.
[49:15.160 -> 49:18.400] I acknowledge the costs, but I look for the benefits.
[49:18.400 -> 49:20.560] Can we please talk about leadership?
[49:20.560 -> 49:23.480] You've reeled off a few names.
[49:23.480 -> 49:26.000] Why were those names in your mind?
[49:26.000 -> 49:28.300] Why are those considered good leaders by you?
[49:29.620 -> 49:33.100] All of them outlived their own lives,
[49:33.100 -> 49:35.260] meaning that we've forgotten a lot of the people
[49:35.260 -> 49:38.260] who may have accomplished great things along the way,
[49:38.260 -> 49:40.460] but for some reason we remember them.
[49:40.460 -> 49:41.820] And they weren't the only ones doing it.
[49:41.820 -> 49:43.700] They weren't the ones leading their organizations
[49:43.700 -> 49:44.660] or their movements.
[49:44.660 -> 49:46.680] They certainly weren't the first,
[49:46.680 -> 49:47.640] but there was something about them
[49:47.640 -> 49:49.080] that sort of inspired people to believe
[49:49.080 -> 49:50.160] in something bigger than themselves.
[49:50.160 -> 49:51.240] I mean, when Steve Jobs dies,
[49:51.240 -> 49:53.600] here's a multi-billionaire who lives a lifestyle
[49:53.600 -> 49:55.840] that none of us can relate to.
[49:55.840 -> 50:00.840] And we laid flowers at an Apple shop after he died.
[50:01.360 -> 50:02.840] What?
[50:02.840 -> 50:03.680] Right?
[50:03.680 -> 50:07.760] That's ridiculous. But the only reason we did that is because for
[50:07.760 -> 50:12.760] some reason we connected with what he stood for. He made a certain group of people feel
[50:12.760 -> 50:19.160] seen and heard in a way that others didn't. The fact that he ran a tech company, that
[50:19.160 -> 50:24.240] was what he did, but why he did it was something quite different. There's a reason why young
[50:24.240 -> 50:25.240] people and creative people
[50:25.240 -> 50:28.160] are attracted to that, because he was a rebel.
[50:28.160 -> 50:29.160] He was an iconoclast.
[50:29.160 -> 50:31.360] He stood against the status quo.
[50:31.360 -> 50:33.260] You know, he and Steve Wozniak.
[50:33.260 -> 50:35.760] That's what creative people and young people like to do.
[50:35.760 -> 50:38.420] You know, it's not an accident.
[50:38.420 -> 50:40.960] So yeah, all of them outlived their,
[50:40.960 -> 50:44.800] you know, sort of lived lives that lived on beyond them.
[50:44.800 -> 50:46.480] By the way, just as an aside,
[50:46.480 -> 50:50.920] every one of us has a deceased grandparent,
[50:50.920 -> 50:52.960] a friend who has passed,
[50:52.960 -> 50:55.880] who we continue to invoke their names to this day.
[50:55.880 -> 50:58.000] And so you don't have to have led a big company
[50:58.000 -> 51:00.060] or a social movement to have had an impact
[51:00.060 -> 51:02.920] on people's lives where they will literally tell your story
[51:02.920 -> 51:04.840] and carry your name for the rest of your life.
[51:04.840 -> 51:09.760] You know, my grandfather was extremely important to me. Um, and his
[51:09.760 -> 51:13.760] name shows up in funny places. You know, I use his name as passwords and you know, things
[51:13.760 -> 51:18.960] like that. So why was he so significant for you? So he, he was a, he was completely unique.
[51:18.960 -> 51:28.000] I mean, he was a complete weirdo. Very few people got him, but I saw a side of him and he sort of opened up to me in a way that he didn't open up to other people.
[51:28.000 -> 51:36.000] And he basically showed me that you have permission to be your own weirdo self, even if other people won't get you.
[51:36.000 -> 51:37.000] How did he do that?
[51:37.000 -> 51:41.000] He just didn't give a shit what people thought about him. He just cared zero.
[51:41.000 -> 51:46.040] I remember I was a little kid and there was a politician on TV saying something
[51:46.040 -> 51:50.360] or other and my grandfather just sort of, we were watching the news, you know, and my
[51:50.360 -> 51:54.880] grandfather goes, I'm not voting for him. And I said, you don't like his policies? And
[51:54.880 -> 51:59.080] my grandfather says, I don't like his hair. I said, you can't not vote for somebody because
[51:59.080 -> 52:01.280] you don't like their hair. And he said, I cannot vote for somebody for any reason I
[52:01.280 -> 52:05.600] want. And I was like, yeah, I guess.
[52:07.120 -> 52:08.640] He just did his own thing. Some people loved him and some people didn't.
[52:08.640 -> 52:10.800] And he definitely drove my grandmother nuts,
[52:10.800 -> 52:13.120] but he just did it his way.
[52:13.120 -> 52:14.620] Do you care what people think of you?
[52:14.620 -> 52:16.640] Basically, if you want to achieve anything in this world,
[52:16.640 -> 52:17.640] you have to get used to the idea
[52:17.640 -> 52:18.720] that not everybody's gonna like you.
[52:18.720 -> 52:20.440] Like you just have to get used to that.
[52:20.440 -> 52:21.600] And if you want everybody to like you
[52:21.600 -> 52:28.240] and that's inconsistent with making an impact of any sorts. It just doesn't work that way
[52:28.640 -> 52:32.320] But I made a deal with myself that if people didn't like me because they disagreed with me
[52:32.320 -> 52:38.640] I was okay with that and if people didn't like me because they were intimidated by something I said or did or I was okay
[52:38.640 -> 52:39.440] with that
[52:39.440 -> 52:41.440] But if somebody that I respected
[52:41.680 -> 52:45.920] Didn't like me. I have a problem and that I have to take accountability for
[52:45.920 -> 52:47.800] and I'm doing something wrong.
[52:47.800 -> 52:50.560] And that's sort of the deal I made with myself.
[52:50.560 -> 52:52.520] And so that goes to this day, you know, like,
[52:52.520 -> 52:54.700] so if I go, I have friends who won't read the reviews
[52:54.700 -> 52:55.540] of their books, I won't read it.
[52:55.540 -> 52:58.360] And I always, I go read them because I find it,
[52:58.360 -> 53:00.720] because if they're helpful, I want to know.
[53:00.720 -> 53:03.240] So if there's a critical review that explains
[53:03.240 -> 53:05.700] in a really neat, nicely organized way
[53:05.700 -> 53:07.700] that where one of the things I wrote,
[53:07.700 -> 53:08.800] faltered, it didn't work.
[53:08.800 -> 53:10.900] I actually like, yeah, that's a good point.
[53:10.900 -> 53:12.020] That's a good point they're making.
[53:12.020 -> 53:13.680] I'll take that one.
[53:13.680 -> 53:15.820] Whereas somebody just calls me an idiot or a Neanderthal.
[53:15.820 -> 53:16.860] Like somebody literally called me a Neanderthal.
[53:16.860 -> 53:19.100] I'm like, what am I supposed to do with that?
[53:19.100 -> 53:20.260] Like, this is the worst book I've ever read.
[53:20.260 -> 53:21.300] I'm like, okay, compared to what?
[53:21.300 -> 53:22.940] Like, I don't know, that's not helpful to me.
[53:22.940 -> 53:24.100] Give me something helpful.
[53:24.100 -> 53:27.680] So bad reviews or bad criticism, like again, if it's what like I don't know that's not helpful to me Give me something helpful. So bad reviews or bad criticism like again, it's if it's helpful
[53:27.680 -> 53:31.760] I really welcome it. But if you're just throwing stones, I don't I actually don't know what to do with it
[53:31.760 -> 53:37.980] Yeah, so tell us the best piece of feedback you've had then if we talk about you as a writer, so we get specific
[53:38.980 -> 53:48.080] Because your work is invoked and and will outlive you. Yeah. You know, like the impact is significant across
[53:48.080 -> 53:52.080] the globe. So I'm interested, how did you get there and what was the kind of fit, what
[53:52.080 -> 53:55.840] was the best piece of feedback that's allowed you to be able to write so succinctly and
[53:55.840 -> 53:56.840] powerfully?
[53:56.840 -> 54:01.720] So when I wrote my first book, nobody thought I could write, including me. The longest thing
[54:01.720 -> 54:05.800] I'd ever wrote prior was like 15,20 pages, you know, a paper for
[54:05.800 -> 54:06.800] school.
[54:06.800 -> 54:09.840] That is brilliant for people to hear though, because I think people see someone like you
[54:09.840 -> 54:13.800] and think, I must have been incredible from the age of 11 writing all sorts of amazing
[54:13.800 -> 54:14.800] things.
[54:14.800 -> 54:15.800] No, no.
[54:15.800 -> 54:16.800] I think that's so powerful.
[54:16.800 -> 54:18.360] No, I think like, if I'm really honest with myself, probably the longest thing I wrote
[54:18.360 -> 54:22.160] was 10 pages, because if it was 30 it was probably shite.
[54:22.160 -> 54:31.060] So where did the courage come from then to even begin or to think I'm going to write a book. It's not really courage. It's I had this idea and a friend of mine
[54:31.060 -> 54:35.800] said you should really write this down. And I was like, okay, you know, and somebody made
[54:35.800 -> 54:40.240] an introduction. And again, when I say somebody, it's not because I was well connected. It's
[54:40.240 -> 54:43.880] because I believed in starting with why and I was really good at it. And I believed in
[54:43.880 -> 54:45.400] the law of diffusion of innovations,
[54:45.400 -> 54:47.100] which is I only talked to early adopters.
[54:47.300 -> 54:49.600] And so the right people always made introductions for me.
[54:49.900 -> 54:52.700] I was dogged about only talking to early adopters.
[54:52.700 -> 54:54.800] So I basically,
[54:56.000 -> 55:01.800] the, my blueprint for actually how my career went and how I built start with why
[55:01.800 -> 55:04.600] is written in start with why, like that is literally what I did.
[55:08.500 -> 55:10.000] And I didn't have advertising or PR firms. I didn't game the algorithms.
[55:10.000 -> 55:13.900] I didn't drive any numbers on it and have friends write fake reviews.
[55:13.900 -> 55:16.400] Like none of that did none of that all the tricks of the trade.
[55:16.400 -> 55:17.100] I didn't do any of them.
[55:17.600 -> 55:18.900] That book is my blueprint.
[55:19.000 -> 55:20.500] I just wrote what I did.
[55:21.100 -> 55:27.840] So somebody introduced me to one of the great business publishers and I had a
[55:27.840 -> 55:32.400] 29 minute meeting with him and he three days later they offered me a book deal. He just
[55:32.400 -> 55:36.880] took a risk on me. Again, starting with why you connect with the right people for some
[55:36.880 -> 55:42.520] reason they take risks. They don't know why either. And then they told me I should get
[55:42.520 -> 55:47.000] a writer. And so my agent at the time introduced me to a guy
[55:47.000 -> 55:49.360] he knew and said, this is the perfect writer for you.
[55:49.360 -> 55:51.360] And I went out to Portland to meet him
[55:51.360 -> 55:52.840] and I brought the contract.
[55:52.840 -> 55:54.680] And these contracts always say, you know,
[55:54.680 -> 55:56.640] whatever the numbers are, 25% upfront,
[55:56.640 -> 55:58.880] 25% upon delivery, whatever they are, you know,
[55:58.880 -> 56:00.600] 50% upfront, whatever it is.
[56:00.600 -> 56:03.440] And the way that really works in practices,
[56:03.440 -> 56:06.800] you sign the paper and like fricking three months later, they send you a check, right?
[56:06.800 -> 56:10.600] And I went, you know, I'm a nobody.
[56:10.600 -> 56:12.300] I got no following, I got no nothing.
[56:12.300 -> 56:16.000] But I, it said upon signing 50%.
[56:16.000 -> 56:19.300] So, we signed the contract, ceremonially at his house in Portland.
[56:19.300 -> 56:21.000] This is our weekend to work together.
[56:21.000 -> 56:23.600] And I handed him a check for the first half.
[56:23.600 -> 56:27.000] And the first thing we did was get in his car and drive to the bank to cash it, which
[56:27.000 -> 56:32.360] was a little weird, you know, and then he kept trying to challenge my ideas and change
[56:32.360 -> 56:36.500] my ideas. And I was like, Oh my God, this guy wants to write his own book, not help
[56:36.500 -> 56:44.400] me write my book. And he was very difficult and sort of kept shooting down my ideas.
[56:44.400 -> 56:45.800] And remember when I wrote Start With Why,
[56:45.800 -> 56:48.200] I'd already been out there talking about it for two and a half years.
[56:48.200 -> 56:49.800] Like, I knew my stuff.
[56:50.600 -> 56:53.200] And I went back to my hotel room that night,
[56:53.200 -> 56:54.800] and I'm like, this is not gonna work.
[56:54.800 -> 56:56.800] And I called him up and I fired him.
[56:56.800 -> 56:58.200] I said, listen, hey, I think,
[56:58.200 -> 57:00.200] I don't think you and I are a good connection.
[57:00.200 -> 57:02.200] And he started screaming and yelling at me.
[57:02.200 -> 57:04.200] I will mention that before I called him,
[57:04.200 -> 57:06.000] I called the bank and stopped the check.
[57:06.000 -> 57:08.000] Of course. And I told him that.
[57:08.000 -> 57:10.000] I said, just so you know, I've stopped the check, you know?
[57:10.000 -> 57:12.000] And he started screaming, yelling at me, and threatening to sue me,
[57:12.000 -> 57:15.000] and all of this stuff. And the good news is,
[57:15.000 -> 57:17.000] all contracts, if you haven't done anything,
[57:17.000 -> 57:19.000] there's no damage done. I'm not in breach,
[57:19.000 -> 57:22.000] because he hasn't done anything yet, you know?
[57:22.000 -> 57:24.000] All contracts have a little cooling off period.
[57:24.000 -> 57:26.080] And so I said, I explained to him, I'm like,
[57:26.080 -> 57:28.160] you know, you're threat A, the way you're responding,
[57:28.160 -> 57:31.120] you're just made life a lot easier for me.
[57:31.120 -> 57:32.240] You've reinforced my decision.
[57:32.240 -> 57:33.160] If you were a gentleman about it,
[57:33.160 -> 57:34.360] I'd really start questioning
[57:34.360 -> 57:35.200] if I'd made the right choice here.
[57:35.200 -> 57:37.200] So thank you for that.
[57:37.200 -> 57:38.040] And I moved on.
[57:38.040 -> 57:39.800] And of course he didn't sue me.
[57:39.800 -> 57:42.680] But now the problem was I had a book to write.
[57:42.680 -> 57:46.200] And so it's kind of amazing what a deadline will do.
[57:46.200 -> 57:50.040] When a company gives you a ton of money, it says, you owe us.
[57:50.040 -> 57:53.040] And I started writing, but I started
[57:53.040 -> 57:54.880] writing the way I speak.
[57:54.880 -> 57:56.640] And so the book is very conversational.
[57:56.640 -> 57:58.440] It's a very easy book to read.
[57:58.440 -> 58:03.000] I don't use big words, because then I'm not trying to make
[58:03.000 -> 58:04.720] myself look or sound smart.
[58:04.720 -> 58:05.360] I'm really just trying to, and because I have ADHD, I don't like reading books, and I actually don't, I'm not trying to make myself look or sound smart. I'm really just trying
[58:05.360 -> 58:08.960] to, and because I have ADHD, I don't like reading books and I actually don't read a
[58:08.960 -> 58:12.340] lot of, everybody thinks I'm really well read. And I like to joke that I've actually written
[58:12.340 -> 58:18.240] more books than I've read, which is true. And so the great thing about being the writer
[58:18.240 -> 58:24.160] is if I'm reading my own work and I'm bored out of my skull, I just cross it out. And
[58:24.160 -> 58:26.240] so if you notice in those books,
[58:26.240 -> 58:30.080] they're pretty short sections and they're pretty punchy and there's a lot of stories
[58:30.080 -> 58:35.180] because I had to enjoy reading it too. So I wrote a book that I enjoyed reading for
[58:35.180 -> 58:41.120] somebody with ADHD. So there's no simple answer to your question, but I didn't try and write
[58:41.120 -> 58:45.860] to a standard of other people. I tried to write a book that I wanted to read
[58:45.860 -> 58:47.700] and it turns out it's a really nice, simple,
[58:47.700 -> 58:50.380] sweet little book, which is what I like.
[58:50.380 -> 58:52.860] But then as you've gone on and done
[58:52.860 -> 58:55.100] your other successful books,
[58:55.100 -> 58:58.140] you must have had feedback that then people like,
[58:58.140 -> 59:00.780] people then, well it's all saying that failure
[59:00.780 -> 59:03.780] is often born and often, but success has got many fathers.
[59:03.780 -> 59:06.300] So lots of people then must want to offer an insight
[59:06.300 -> 59:07.600] or a comment or a critique.
[59:07.600 -> 59:10.500] I don't show my work to anybody except about one person.
[59:10.500 -> 59:11.300] Who's that?
[59:11.300 -> 59:15.500] So my friend Jen Hallam, she's been with me for years.
[59:15.500 -> 59:17.000] She's the only person I trust.
[59:17.000 -> 59:19.700] I don't do any of my stuff alone, ever.
[59:19.700 -> 59:22.000] But I work with the people that I want to work with.
[59:22.000 -> 59:23.200] And it's usually one person.
[59:23.200 -> 59:25.580] I don't give my manuscript to ten people and say what do you think?
[59:25.680 -> 59:28.400] But how do you choose the people around you?
[59:28.400 -> 59:32.120] How do you choose the people that you let in because you will live a life you're very well known
[59:32.120 -> 59:37.140] There'll be many people who want to be I'll be friends with Simon I can talk about why every day
[59:37.140 -> 59:40.960] I imagine it's very attractive to a lot of people. So how do you choose?
[59:41.840 -> 59:43.840] the people in your circle I
[59:44.280 -> 59:47.000] Mean, I don't think I don't think particularly mean, I don't think it's particularly unique
[59:47.000 -> 59:48.600] and I don't think it's any different than anybody else.
[59:48.600 -> 59:50.040] Like, how do you choose your friends?
[59:50.040 -> 59:51.040] How do you choose your friends?
[59:51.040 -> 59:53.360] Like, I make friends like anybody else.
[59:53.360 -> 59:55.600] You meet somebody, sometimes you're introduced to them,
[59:55.600 -> 59:56.640] sometimes you meet them somewhere,
[59:56.640 -> 59:58.520] you get along, you have a nice conversation,
[59:58.520 -> 01:00:00.520] you sort of like each other,
[01:00:00.520 -> 01:00:02.840] you go out once, you like each other again,
[01:00:02.840 -> 01:00:06.900] or you don't and you never talk to each other again. You know, you both let your guards down a little bit,
[01:00:07.000 -> 01:00:08.800] you both went up a little bit, you realize you got a lot of...
[01:00:08.900 -> 01:00:10.300] You shared values. I mean, my friends are the same
[01:00:10.400 -> 01:00:11.600] as everybody else's friends.
[01:00:11.700 -> 01:00:13.800] I mean, one of the things that I do notice about people,
[01:00:13.900 -> 01:00:17.800] you know, um, who sort of had some sort of commercial success,
[01:00:18.200 -> 01:00:19.800] especially the ones who had it young,
[01:00:19.900 -> 01:00:21.400] is their guards go up.
[01:00:21.800 -> 01:00:23.700] Because they live lives.
[01:00:23.800 -> 01:00:26.840] I mean, I had an experience where
[01:00:26.840 -> 01:00:30.120] somebody gave me incredibly bad advice that hurt me.
[01:00:30.120 -> 01:00:32.840] And it was somebody in the inner circle
[01:00:32.840 -> 01:00:34.780] who I work with, a work colleague,
[01:00:34.780 -> 01:00:35.920] who gave me incredibly bad advice
[01:00:35.920 -> 01:00:38.400] that turned out was advice that was serving them,
[01:00:38.400 -> 01:00:39.220] but not me.
[01:00:40.200 -> 01:00:41.720] And it was self-serving advice they gave me.
[01:00:41.720 -> 01:00:43.360] And it was very costly for me.
[01:00:43.360 -> 01:00:45.360] It was very hurtful and painful.
[01:00:45.360 -> 01:00:47.800] And I called up a friend of mine who's
[01:00:47.800 -> 01:00:50.920] been in the public eye since like 20 years old.
[01:00:50.920 -> 01:00:53.680] He's like 60 now, you know?
[01:00:53.680 -> 01:00:55.680] And I said, how do I deal with this?
[01:00:55.680 -> 01:00:57.080] Like, how do you deal with it?
[01:00:57.080 -> 01:00:59.720] He's like, yeah, he says, you're a product now.
[01:00:59.720 -> 01:01:00.680] Like, get used to it.
[01:01:00.680 -> 01:01:02.600] This is like, it never goes away.
[01:01:02.600 -> 01:01:06.560] Like, you're going to live a life where you're not a hundred percent sure and
[01:01:07.480 -> 01:01:10.720] Like I understand why celebrities marry celebrities, you know, I kind of get it
[01:01:10.720 -> 01:01:13.560] Yeah, because when you start to meet people I've gotten burned
[01:01:13.560 -> 01:01:17.960] That's by the way, one of the things that where leaders eat last come from came from which is yeah
[01:01:17.960 -> 01:01:22.160] You know, everybody knows this when you achieve any kind of commercial success whatsoever
[01:01:22.160 -> 01:01:25.280] All your jokes are funnier and you're much better looking, right?
[01:01:25.280 -> 01:01:27.000] It's just what happens.
[01:01:27.000 -> 01:01:30.900] And if you believe it, you're dead.
[01:01:30.900 -> 01:01:31.920] If you believe your own press
[01:01:31.920 -> 01:01:34.280] and you believe all the smoke that people blow,
[01:01:35.780 -> 01:01:40.640] up your ass, then it's gonna be a short existence.
[01:01:40.640 -> 01:01:41.480] But if you, I mean,
[01:01:41.480 -> 01:01:46.180] there's a story that I've told before that I live by. It's a former
[01:01:46.180 -> 01:01:51.540] undersecretary of defense who is giving a speech at a big conference, a thousand people
[01:01:51.540 -> 01:01:55.980] or something. And while he's standing on the stage giving his prepared remarks, he stops
[01:01:55.980 -> 01:02:01.400] and interrupts himself and smiles and says, you know, last year I spoke at this exact
[01:02:01.400 -> 01:02:08.360] same conference and last year I was still the undersecretary. Last year they flew me here, business class, there was somebody waiting for me at the airport
[01:02:08.360 -> 01:02:11.560] to take me to the hotel, somebody had already checked me in when I got to the hotel.
[01:02:11.560 -> 01:02:14.880] I came down in the morning, there was somebody else waiting in the lobby to take me in another
[01:02:14.880 -> 01:02:16.920] car to this same venue.
[01:02:16.920 -> 01:02:21.040] They took me in the back entrance, they took me into a green room, and somebody offered
[01:02:21.040 -> 01:02:23.200] me a cup of coffee and a beautiful ceramic cup.
[01:02:23.200 -> 01:02:26.120] He says, I flew here coach this time.
[01:02:26.120 -> 01:02:28.920] He says, I checked myself into the hotel.
[01:02:28.920 -> 01:02:30.920] This morning I came down and I took a taxi
[01:02:30.920 -> 01:02:31.760] to the same venue.
[01:02:31.760 -> 01:02:34.760] I came in the front door, I find my way backstage.
[01:02:34.760 -> 01:02:37.080] And when I said to somebody, do you have any coffee?
[01:02:37.080 -> 01:02:38.780] They pointed to the coffee machine in the corner
[01:02:38.780 -> 01:02:40.480] and I poured myself a cup of coffee
[01:02:40.480 -> 01:02:42.600] into this here styrofoam cup.
[01:02:42.600 -> 01:02:45.080] He says, the ceramic cup was never meant for me. It was meant for the position I held. I deserve a styrofoam cup. He says, the ceramic cup was never meant for me.
[01:02:45.080 -> 01:02:46.920] It was meant for the position I held.
[01:02:46.920 -> 01:02:49.160] I deserve a styrofoam cup.
[01:02:49.160 -> 01:02:52.140] And I think every successful person on the planet
[01:02:52.140 -> 01:02:53.800] is given ceramic cups.
[01:02:53.800 -> 01:02:55.840] They hold doors open for you.
[01:02:55.840 -> 01:02:56.680] They give you perks.
[01:02:56.680 -> 01:02:59.640] They give you free products, you know, whatever it is.
[01:02:59.640 -> 01:03:01.080] Then they tell you you're beautiful
[01:03:01.080 -> 01:03:01.920] and they tell you you're funny
[01:03:01.920 -> 01:03:04.480] and they tell you you're smart and you feel great.
[01:03:04.480 -> 01:03:05.340] And it's no problem
[01:03:05.340 -> 01:03:08.540] Enjoy it be grateful for it. It's definitely fun. It's definitely surreal
[01:03:09.180 -> 01:03:11.100] But they're not giving it to you
[01:03:11.100 -> 01:03:17.780] They're giving it to the position that you currently occupy and then the next person they'll give it to them and there's a guy
[01:03:17.780 -> 01:03:20.740] I know who's a big CEO who retired recently and
[01:03:21.500 -> 01:03:24.700] There's a big fancy party that was being thrown. There's a true story
[01:03:24.740 -> 01:03:27.840] It was big fancy party and he was talking to friend of his like hey, do you get your invitation?
[01:03:27.840 -> 01:03:31.080] The guy goes, yeah, I didn't get mine. It must have gotten lost
[01:03:31.200 -> 01:03:34.800] He didn't realize that they were never inviting him to the party all these years
[01:03:34.800 -> 01:03:37.960] They were inviting the CEO of this company that happened to be him
[01:03:37.960 -> 01:03:43.240] Yeah, he completely missed the plot and so like I said, enjoy the perks, but they're not meant for you
[01:03:43.240 -> 01:03:48.360] And I think the people that think that they deserve the ceramic cup. They've missed they've missed the plot
[01:03:48.360 -> 01:03:51.220] We all deserve styrofoam cups, but is that
[01:03:51.920 -> 01:03:53.400] When that happens in your life
[01:03:53.400 -> 01:03:53.760] Yeah
[01:03:53.760 -> 01:03:59.120] Just knowing your why become ever more important because it's something to keep you grounded and keep you coming back
[01:04:00.120 -> 01:04:01.400] There's a combination of things
[01:04:01.400 -> 01:04:05.040] I think definitely knowing your why is a part of it. Definitely surrounding yourself with people who
[01:04:05.400 -> 01:04:11.680] Tell you you're an idiot is important, you know, my sister is the first person to be like get over yourself, you know
[01:04:11.840 -> 01:04:16.340] Yeah, I mean, you know, I can't get away with anything, you know, which is correct, you know
[01:04:17.520 -> 01:04:19.520] She's known me her whole life
[01:04:20.000 -> 01:04:24.720] I'm older. So I've got a couple years on her, but I think the other part is the way I view career
[01:04:24.200 -> 01:04:29.800] I'm older so I've got a couple years on her. But I think the other part is the way I view career, which is, and this is the importance of vision and cause, which is, you know, when
[01:04:29.800 -> 01:04:34.820] I got started and I said, wouldn't this be amazing if work worked like this, you know?
[01:04:34.820 -> 01:04:38.720] And people were like, I think you're completely unrealistic. I'm like, no, no, I think I have
[01:04:38.720 -> 01:04:43.720] an idea. And an idea is an iceberg beneath the ocean, which is you're the only one who
[01:04:43.720 -> 01:04:45.960] can see it. That's literally what an idea or a vision is.
[01:04:45.960 -> 01:04:47.880] It's a figment of your imagination.
[01:04:47.880 -> 01:04:49.900] And if you do some work that brings that idea
[01:04:49.900 -> 01:04:51.480] some tangibility, some life,
[01:04:51.480 -> 01:04:53.680] I gave a talk, I wrote a book, whatever it was,
[01:04:53.680 -> 01:04:55.280] I did some consulting, whatever it was,
[01:04:55.280 -> 01:04:57.080] just added a little bit of tangibility.
[01:04:57.080 -> 01:04:58.760] That's like a little bit of iceberg popping up.
[01:04:58.760 -> 01:04:59.720] So that a few people will be like,
[01:04:59.720 -> 01:05:03.520] oh, I see what you're talking about now.
[01:05:03.520 -> 01:05:06.320] And so throughout my whole career somebody be like, hey nice job
[01:05:06.320 -> 01:05:12.440] I'd be like tip of the iceberg and then as my career progressed did more things more iceberg and people like oh
[01:05:12.440 -> 01:05:19.160] It's amazing what you've achieved. They're only looking above the ocean. Yeah, I'm still looking beneath the ocean and I would always go
[01:05:20.240 -> 01:05:24.220] Tip of the iceberg and to this day if you if you no matter what compliments you'll pay me
[01:05:24.220 -> 01:05:28.240] I'll be grateful and I say thank you, but what's going through my mind is tip of the iceberg. And to this day, if you, if you, no matter what compliments you'll pay me, I'll be grateful and I say, thank you. But what's going through my mind is tip of
[01:05:28.240 -> 01:05:34.600] the iceberg. And so I'm humbled by the tremendous amount of work that is still yet to be done.
[01:05:34.600 -> 01:05:38.360] And what, what reminds me of, you know, what keeps me going is sort of like the original
[01:05:38.360 -> 01:05:42.040] founders of the women's suffrage movement in the United States. Every single one of
[01:05:42.040 -> 01:05:49.780] them had died of natural causes before the first woman voted. Right? Now, I'm sure they would have loved to have lived to see a woman vote, but
[01:05:49.780 -> 01:05:53.700] I can guarantee you that they died proud and with smiles on their faces knowing that they
[01:05:53.700 -> 01:05:58.160] built momentum that other people could see what they imagined beneath the ocean and would
[01:05:58.160 -> 01:06:11.000] carry the torch without them. And that's sort of what I live for. I live for the desire to spread a message in a way that I can die with confidence that other people carry the torch without me.
[01:06:11.000 -> 01:06:19.000] And, you know, I look at somebody like Oprah and I, as remarkable as she is, and she put her face on every cover of every magazine.
[01:06:19.000 -> 01:06:25.540] The magazine is named after her. Everything is named after her and she's on... And if she dies, it dies.
[01:06:26.040 -> 01:06:27.040] Yeah.
[01:06:27.140 -> 01:06:28.340] I mean, a remarkable human being
[01:06:28.440 -> 01:06:30.040] who's done remarkable good in the world,
[01:06:30.140 -> 01:06:31.840] but it's her.
[01:06:31.940 -> 01:06:32.940] Yeah.
[01:06:33.040 -> 01:06:34.980] And I've worked very hard to make it not about me.
[01:06:35.080 -> 01:06:36.880] You know, we changed our company from...
[01:06:36.980 -> 01:06:38.280] to the Optimism Company.
[01:06:38.780 -> 01:06:41.580] And, you know, we remind our team that, you know,
[01:06:41.680 -> 01:06:43.680] they're optimists. That's what they are,
[01:06:43.780 -> 01:06:46.360] that we call our team optimists. And, like, every year, you know, I're optimists. That's what they are, that we call our team optimists.
[01:06:46.360 -> 01:06:48.440] And like every year, you know,
[01:06:48.440 -> 01:06:49.780] I don't think we're a hundred percent there yet,
[01:06:49.780 -> 01:06:52.600] but every year the goal is that,
[01:06:52.600 -> 01:06:54.920] that if I were to get hit by a bus,
[01:06:54.920 -> 01:06:58.100] I can say with pride that the work will continue.
[01:06:58.100 -> 01:06:59.560] Cause it has to, cause it must,
[01:06:59.560 -> 01:07:01.280] because the vision is bigger than all of us.
[01:07:01.280 -> 01:07:04.560] It's, wouldn't say that's an optimistic way to finish.
[01:07:04.560 -> 01:07:06.200] Talking about getting hit by a bus. But I think it's't say that's an optimistic way to finish. Talking about getting hit by a bus.
[01:07:06.200 -> 01:07:08.200] It is a brilliant optimistic way to finish.
[01:07:08.200 -> 01:07:10.200] But to know that the momentum will carry without me,
[01:07:10.200 -> 01:07:11.700] that's great, I love that.
[01:07:11.700 -> 01:07:12.700] And it will.
[01:07:12.700 -> 01:07:13.700] We could talk for hours.
[01:07:13.700 -> 01:07:15.200] Would you come back sometime?
[01:07:15.200 -> 01:07:16.200] I'd be honoured, thank you.
[01:07:16.200 -> 01:07:17.200] It was really interesting.
[01:07:17.200 -> 01:07:18.200] Thank you.
[01:07:18.200 -> 01:07:19.200] Before we let you go though,
[01:07:19.200 -> 01:07:20.200] we have a few quickfire questions
[01:07:20.200 -> 01:07:21.200] we'd like to run by you.
[01:07:21.200 -> 01:07:22.200] Okay.
[01:07:22.200 -> 01:07:23.200] Chocolate.
[01:07:23.200 -> 01:07:24.200] Oh, sorry, you haven't started yet.
[01:07:24.200 -> 01:07:29.080] It's the correct answer, off you go. The three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the
[01:07:29.080 -> 01:07:36.380] people around you should buy into integrity, honor, not the same thing.
[01:07:36.380 -> 01:07:43.520] Explain that one. Sorry. When you say honor. So honor is a word that still exists in
[01:07:43.520 -> 01:08:05.040] the military that seems to have fallen away in polite society, you know, chivalry is gone, you know, there was a time where your word was it and you wouldn't violate your word because then if people knew that you violated your word, no one would want to do business with you. Right? Like it really honor mattered. I love that. And I'll give you an example, you know, for me, what
[01:08:05.040 -> 01:08:08.960] honor has nothing to do with reliability or intelligence or even honesty. You can have
[01:08:08.960 -> 01:08:12.800] people who are honest and reliable and not and dishonorable. Doing something that's dishonorable
[01:08:12.800 -> 01:08:20.000] is taking advantage of somebody else's bad situation for personal gain. That's dishonorable.
[01:08:20.000 -> 01:08:30.860] And if you're willing to put aside your own interests, ego, ambition, because somebody else is struggling, then that to me is honorable.
[01:08:30.860 -> 01:08:37.360] And this happens all the time. Like when a company is struggling, that an employee walks into their bus and say, I want my raise now.
[01:08:38.460 -> 01:08:44.060] Like, now? That's when you're going to ask? Because somebody told you, you have leverage or you have the cards. It's dishonorable.
[01:08:44.500 -> 01:08:47.200] I want them out. I don't care how much more I'm going to have
[01:08:47.200 -> 01:08:52.040] to suffer. I want them out. Whereas if they knuckle down and help us get through the really,
[01:08:52.040 -> 01:08:56.480] really hard times and then come and say, listen, I was there with you through all the hard
[01:08:56.480 -> 01:09:00.400] times. I'd really think I'm in, I'd like a little more. I'd be like, yeah, cool. Let's
[01:09:00.400 -> 01:09:09.960] have that conversation. But doing it when someone is struggling, I think is dishonorable. So for me, honor is a, is really big. So integrity, you know, doing the right
[01:09:09.960 -> 01:09:16.880] thing, high ethical standards, honor, and, and I think willingness to take yourself on
[01:09:16.880 -> 01:09:22.080] is the third one. It's very difficult being a human being, you know, cats don't have to
[01:09:22.080 -> 01:09:28.520] work very hard to be cats, but humans have to work very hard to be humans. And every new member of our team
[01:09:28.520 -> 01:09:31.400] gets a phone call from me and says, A, you're part of something bigger than
[01:09:31.400 -> 01:09:35.000] yourself, always remember that, and B, I have one expectation of you. Whether you
[01:09:35.000 -> 01:09:39.400] stay with this company for a short term or a long term, I expect you to leave
[01:09:39.400 -> 01:09:41.880] here a better version of yourself than when you started. I expect you to take
[01:09:41.880 -> 01:09:44.840] yourself on. We'll give you some of that education and some of it I expect you to
[01:09:44.840 -> 01:09:47.360] seek out by yourself, but you've got to take yourself on.
[01:09:47.360 -> 01:09:52.160] And I think that's a non-negotiable. If you could go back to one moment in your life,
[01:09:52.160 -> 01:09:57.200] what would it be and why? It's a very difficult question because I think now is the best time to
[01:09:57.200 -> 01:10:00.640] be. I'm grateful for all the experiences I had, good and bad, throughout my life,
[01:10:00.640 -> 01:10:07.440] but I don't really want to go and relive any of them. So I don't actually know how to answer the question. If you could give one piece
[01:10:07.440 -> 01:10:12.360] of advice to a young Simon, what would you say? You don't have to know every
[01:10:12.360 -> 01:10:16.400] answer, you don't have to pretend you do. I wish I learned that lesson earlier.
[01:10:16.400 -> 01:10:22.800] What's the most valuable piece of advice you've ever received? I mean the most
[01:10:22.800 -> 01:10:26.860] valuable, I don't know, but I can give you one or two very valuables.
[01:10:26.860 -> 01:10:30.760] You know, get over yourself. You know, when I'm complaining about something or, and somebody
[01:10:30.760 -> 01:10:34.980] leans over and says, get over yourself. Like, that's way up there. Another one that I got
[01:10:34.980 -> 01:10:41.140] that I live by, I was young, young, young and a big company and the senior client came
[01:10:41.140 -> 01:10:45.800] in and my job was, I got to be in the senior meeting with all the senior people from my company
[01:10:45.800 -> 01:10:46.840] and senior people from the client.
[01:10:46.840 -> 01:10:48.440] And my job was to work the PowerPoint.
[01:10:48.440 -> 01:10:49.480] Like that was my job.
[01:10:49.480 -> 01:10:51.520] And like, I just had to make it go next.
[01:10:51.520 -> 01:10:52.700] But I worked on the account every day.
[01:10:52.700 -> 01:10:54.360] So sometimes they were talking about something
[01:10:54.360 -> 01:10:56.240] because I was in the weeds and they weren't,
[01:10:56.240 -> 01:10:57.960] I would offer up some answers,
[01:10:57.960 -> 01:10:59.080] not because I was trying to impress anybody.
[01:10:59.080 -> 01:11:00.520] It's just because I actually knew what was going on
[01:11:00.520 -> 01:11:01.880] and they didn't.
[01:11:01.880 -> 01:11:03.440] And at the end of the meeting,
[01:11:06.240 -> 01:11:09.360] this woman who was like my work mom, she was one of the senior partners of the company, she put her arm around me,
[01:11:09.360 -> 01:11:12.840] was walked out the door and she looked at me and she goes, you know, three quarters
[01:11:12.840 -> 01:11:16.640] of an answer is better than an answer and a half. And that has stuck with me to this
[01:11:16.640 -> 01:11:21.200] day. Like when I'm sitting in meetings and I could offer more and I, I just don't. Three
[01:11:21.200 -> 01:11:28.980] quarters of an answer is better than an answer and a half love that For people listening to this who feel content and happy and okay and stable
[01:11:29.580 -> 01:11:32.440] But they don't know their why yeah, what would you say to them?
[01:11:33.100 -> 01:11:35.500] Well, you could do the friends exercise, which is really fun
[01:11:35.880 -> 01:11:38.500] And it's a really fun way to do it and you know
[01:11:38.500 -> 01:11:46.120] I've tried to produce resources to help people in what suits them. So the friends exercise is one way you can do it.
[01:11:46.120 -> 01:11:47.480] I wrote a book called find your why,
[01:11:47.480 -> 01:11:49.240] which if you want to go through a workbook,
[01:11:49.240 -> 01:11:50.480] we have ways to do it.
[01:11:50.480 -> 01:11:52.160] If you go to simonsinnick.com,
[01:11:52.160 -> 01:11:55.440] there is, you can have one-on-one, somebody help you.
[01:11:55.440 -> 01:11:56.840] You can take a course, you can do it with a group.
[01:11:56.840 -> 01:11:58.680] I've tried to do it in as many ways as possible
[01:11:58.680 -> 01:12:00.840] because I want everybody to learn their why.
[01:12:00.840 -> 01:12:02.920] And so I've tried to do it as in all the different ways,
[01:12:02.920 -> 01:12:04.560] whatever works, but yeah, do one of them.
[01:12:04.560 -> 01:12:05.680] Great, yeah. And the final question Simon to do it as in all the different ways, whatever works, but yeah, do one of them. Great. Yeah.
[01:12:05.680 -> 01:12:06.960] And the final question Simon is,
[01:12:06.960 -> 01:12:09.560] what's your one golden rule for anyone seeking
[01:12:09.560 -> 01:12:11.960] to live a high performance life?
[01:12:11.960 -> 01:12:15.560] The golden rule is it has to be for the benefit of others.
[01:12:15.560 -> 01:12:17.920] High performance for the benefit of yourself.
[01:12:17.920 -> 01:12:19.640] I don't really know what that means.
[01:12:19.640 -> 01:12:22.680] Cause at some point I want to make a million pounds.
[01:12:22.680 -> 01:12:23.520] I'll make 2 million pounds.
[01:12:23.520 -> 01:12:30.120] It's like, you're going to keep just moving the goal lines and it'll feel like a treadmill. At some point you're going
[01:12:30.120 -> 01:12:35.440] to crash, it's going to happen. But when you live a high performance life for the benefit
[01:12:35.440 -> 01:12:39.800] of others, it's infinite, you can do it forever and it's rewarding until the day you die.
[01:12:39.800 -> 01:12:40.600] Matthew 40
[01:12:40.600 -> 01:12:42.280] Simon, thank you so much for coming on High Performance.
[01:12:42.280 -> 01:12:45.480] Simon Thank you so much for having me. This is really really a wonderful conversation
[01:12:45.480 -> 01:12:47.480] Thank you. It's been a privilege. Thank you
[01:12:51.040 -> 01:12:56.920] Damien Jake, right. Let's pick the bones out of a stunning episode of high performance
[01:12:57.600 -> 01:12:59.280] What stands out?
[01:12:59.280 -> 01:13:02.720] there was so much but if we if we start with the
[01:13:03.520 -> 01:13:06.440] conversation about why and the and just go into what the much but if we if we start with the
[01:13:03.040 -> 01:13:08.800] conversation about why and the and just
[01:13:06.440 -> 01:13:11.520] go into what the conversation you and
[01:13:08.800 -> 01:13:12.880] Simon had where he helped you unpick what
[01:13:11.520 -> 01:13:15.040] are those moments and give you the
[01:13:12.880 -> 01:13:16.680] goosebumps and then understanding
[01:13:15.040 -> 01:13:18.600] what are the patterns that you're
[01:13:16.680 -> 01:13:21.000] looking for what are the moments and what
[01:13:18.600 -> 01:13:22.520] do they mean is really significant and
[01:13:21.000 -> 01:13:24.280] I really hope that people do download
[01:13:22.520 -> 01:13:25.640] the high-performance app it's
[01:13:24.280 -> 01:13:25.360] totally free and they really hope that people do download the high-performance
[01:13:23.960 -> 01:13:27.800] app it's totally free and they can hear
[01:13:25.360 -> 01:13:30.200] that section in full and what I would say
[01:13:27.800 -> 01:13:32.480] to people is I think the very best way to
[01:13:30.200 -> 01:13:34.840] try and find your why is to listen to
[01:13:32.480 -> 01:13:36.240] Simon helping me find mine and then just
[01:13:34.840 -> 01:13:38.800] find someone to ask you those same
[01:13:36.240 -> 01:13:40.560] questions because I think that the best
[01:13:38.800 -> 01:13:43.520] ideas are the simple ideas and
[01:13:40.560 -> 01:13:45.680] actually it's simple it's common-sense
[01:13:43.520 -> 01:13:45.680] questions and then it's relating those threads and it might simple, it's common sense
[01:13:43.560 -> 01:13:47.120] questions and then it's relating those
[01:13:45.680 -> 01:13:49.160] threads and it might take, well it will
[01:13:47.120 -> 01:13:51.640] take people longer to get there than it took
[01:13:49.160 -> 01:13:53.360] Simon to get me to that place, but it's
[01:13:51.640 -> 01:13:55.840] certainly an exercise worth doing.
[01:13:53.360 -> 01:13:58.920] Yeah, that friends test is invaluable, like
[01:13:55.840 -> 01:14:01.240] I was thinking about, I was answering it
[01:13:58.920 -> 01:14:04.040] about you while he was doing it and I
[01:14:01.240 -> 01:14:06.480] was thinking like the moment for me
[01:14:04.040 -> 01:14:06.320] that distinguishes when I think of you is oedd yn ei wneud, ac roeddwn i'n meddwl, fel y moment i mi sy'n anoddo pan rwy'n meddwl am chi,
[01:14:06.320 -> 01:14:13.520] yw bod yna ddau blynedd yn ôl lle roedd gennych chi'n fy nabod yn y stwyd y dydw i ddim, ac roeddwn i'n
[01:14:13.520 -> 01:14:19.040] ddod o'n hunain arno. Ac mae hynny i mi yn sôn llawer i mi, fod y ffaith oedd eich bod chi'n
[01:14:19.040 -> 01:14:28.040] dod i mi pan dydw i ddim yn y stwyd, felly dydw i ddim yn ei wneud ar gyfer unrhyw ddiddorol na when I wasn't in the rooms you weren't doing it for any other reason than being
[01:14:24.800 -> 01:14:29.720] a mate and things like that I think if it
[01:14:28.040 -> 01:14:31.560] brings you back to those moments where you
[01:14:29.720 -> 01:14:33.280] go actually yeah that's that's really
[01:14:31.560 -> 01:14:34.720] significant that reminds you of why
[01:14:33.280 -> 01:14:36.680] you stick together why you look out for
[01:14:34.720 -> 01:14:39.120] each other I think it's really powerful
[01:14:36.680 -> 01:14:40.640] and that's what the conversation did
[01:14:39.120 -> 01:14:42.080] with me. Thank you mate that's really nice
[01:14:40.640 -> 01:14:44.000] for you to say so and I think that actually
[01:14:42.080 -> 01:14:45.600] that plays into what Simon spoke about at
[01:14:44.000 -> 01:14:49.080] the end there which is the big takeaway for me actually from that conversation and isn't it funny you can talk for an hour and a half
[01:14:49.080 -> 01:14:52.240] You can have these really fascinating chats and learn a lot
[01:14:52.480 -> 01:14:55.720] But then what I took away was something you mentioned right at the very end
[01:14:56.160 -> 01:14:59.800] Honor an honor is not something that we talk about anymore
[01:14:59.800 -> 01:15:03.560] But actually what you've just described there, which is me having your back in a room
[01:15:03.560 -> 01:15:05.440] Well, you don't even know I'm having that conversation,
[01:15:05.440 -> 01:15:07.440] and it's the first I've heard about it, that's honor.
[01:15:07.440 -> 01:15:13.700] That's looking out for people, looking after people, protecting those people around you and doing it in an honorable way, I think.
[01:15:13.700 -> 01:15:16.860] Yeah, I love that because that's different, like you said, than integrity.
[01:15:17.080 -> 01:15:19.600] So honor is just doing the right thing, even when nobody's watching.
[01:15:19.600 -> 01:15:24.480] And I think in this world of contracts and deals and all of this sort of stuff, we've lost the art of honor.
[01:15:24.640 -> 01:15:27.320] Yeah. And actually it matters more than anything else. Who
[01:15:27.320 -> 01:15:31.460] cares what's written down? What's your intention? And so if people are listening
[01:15:31.460 -> 01:15:36.140] to this thinking, well like what can I take away from it? It's about valuing and
[01:15:36.140 -> 01:15:41.140] putting a premium on the human side of it, the emotional side of it,
[01:15:41.140 -> 01:15:48.400] the friendship side of it, the trust side of it, all the things that we might badger as soft skills but they're human skills and
[01:15:48.400 -> 01:15:52.080] they're the things that distinguish us. Thank you so much for sharing that
[01:15:52.080 -> 01:15:56.520] episode with me. Privilege, thank you, I loved it.
[01:15:56.520 -> 01:16:00.200] Well listen, thank you so much for tuning in to this. Don't forget you can download
[01:16:00.200 -> 01:16:04.680] the High Performance app if you want to hear myself and Simon talking about why.
[01:16:04.680 -> 01:16:05.520] It's totally free and as well as that exclusive content you can also get download the High Performance app if you want to hear myself and Simon talking about why.
[01:16:05.520 -> 01:16:10.260] It's totally free and as well as that exclusive content you can also get episodes before anybody
[01:16:10.260 -> 01:16:13.980] else and you can get a daily boost from High Performance straight into the palm of your
[01:16:13.980 -> 01:16:18.700] hand. So click the link in the description to this podcast or head to the App Store,
[01:16:18.700 -> 01:16:24.180] download the High Performance app and then use your exclusive code HPAPP to get in. Thank
[01:16:24.180 -> 01:16:25.360] you so much for listening,
[01:16:25.360 -> 01:16:57.200] and we'll see you again soon for more from the team behind high performance. A new year is full of surprises, but one thing is always predictable.
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