E192 - Jax Jones: The letter I wrote that changed my life

Jax Jones, known privately as Timucin Lam, is a DJ, songwriter and record producer. He rose to fame in 2014 and since then has sold over 35 million records, with 4 billion streams. For the first time, he opens up to Jake and Damian about how his turbulent childhood, challenging family relationships and immense pressure to succeed from a young age has shaped him: “Music was a way out. It was a way to mean something.” Jax shares the details of his manifesto, which he wrote at a crucial time in his life and what this means for his future.

He describes himself as constantly being followed by a ghost, a dark shadow that drives him ruthlessly to achieve any goal. Being in therapy from a young age has led him to great self-reflection and analysis, which allows him to turn his life into valuable lessons for those listening.

Jax Jones' single Whistle ft. Calum Scott is out now:  jaxjones.lnk.to/Whistle 

- - - - -

On Tuesday June 14th we're at the Hackney Empire for a special live episode and Q&A with Rugby Union legend Dan Carter! Tickets include a signed copy of Dan Carter’s new book - THE ART OF WINNING. https://tourlink.to/HPDanCarter

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* **The Power of High Performance:**
* Jax Jones defines high performance as giving everything he has to his family, career, and the people around him, even when he feels depleted.
* In his youth, high performance meant being selfish and sacrificing normal experiences to pursue his dream of becoming a musician.


* **The Gift and Curse of a Turbulent Upbringing:**
* Jax's upbringing was marked by a chaotic and turbulent family environment, particularly with his stepfather.
* This led him to develop a strong drive to succeed and escape his circumstances, fueling his passion for music.
* The pressure to succeed and the fear of disappointing others became a driving force in his life.


* **The Importance of Therapy:**
* Jax underwent therapy from a young age, which helped him develop self-reflection and analysis.
* Therapy allowed him to turn his life experiences into valuable lessons for himself and others.


* **The Manifesto:**
* During a transformative time in his life, Jax wrote a manifesto to explore his feelings and motivations.
* The manifesto reflects his journey of self-discovery and his desire to find joy and purpose in his music.
* It emphasizes the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and connecting with others through music.


* **Overcoming Abandonment:**
* Jax experienced abandonment from his biological father and later in his adult life.
* He believes that abandonment can teach self-sustenance and resilience.
* Jax found healing and self-reliance by immersing himself in music and pursuing his passion.


* **The Healing Power of Music:**
* Music became an outlet for Jax to express his emotions and cope with his challenging circumstances.
* He found solace and a sense of belonging in the creative process.
* Music allowed him to connect with others and make a positive impact on the world.


* **The Importance of Vulnerability:**
* Jax emphasizes the importance of vulnerability and authenticity in personal and professional relationships.
* He believes that being vulnerable allows for deeper connections and more meaningful experiences.
* Jax encourages others to embrace their vulnerability and share their true selves with the world.


* **The Pursuit of Joy:**
* Jax's current focus is on finding joy and happiness in his music and his life.
* He seeks to create music that brings joy to others and provides an escape from life's challenges.
* Jax believes that joy is unwavering and can be found even in difficult circumstances.

**Navigating Childhood Trauma, Overcoming Negativity, and Embracing Joy: A Conversation with Jax Jones**

1. **Early Life and Challenges:**
- Jax Jones, also known as Timucin Lam, faced a turbulent childhood marked by family issues and immense pressure to succeed.
- He found solace in music, using it as an outlet to channel his negativity into achieving his goals.
- Jones describes being haunted by a "dark shadow" that relentlessly drives him to pursue success.

2. **Therapy and Self-Reflection:**
- Therapy played a significant role in Jones' journey, helping him gain self-awareness and turn his life experiences into valuable lessons.
- He emphasizes the importance of using negative emotions as fuel for personal growth and achievement.

3. **The Power of Isolation:**
- Jones acknowledges the power in embracing isolation and self-reliance, especially when dealing with feelings of abandonment.
- He believes that this mindset can lead to a unique strength and determination to succeed on one's own terms.

4. **Hard Work and Sacrifice:**
- Jones emphasizes the significance of hard work and sacrifice in achieving success.
- He describes working tirelessly, taking on any opportunity that came his way, and never allowing his ego to hinder his progress.

5. **Overcoming Doubters and Haters:**
- Jones reveals that he still struggles with the lingering presence of doubters and haters who criticized his abilities and potential.
- He acknowledges that these negative experiences continue to haunt him, even after achieving significant success.

6. **The Pursuit of Joy:**
- Despite his success, Jones admits that he struggled to find joy and happiness in his achievements.
- He realized that external validation and material possessions did not fulfill him, leading him on a quest for genuine joy.

7. **Finding Joy in Reclaiming the Past:**
- Jones found joy in reclaiming his teenage years through his music, infusing his current work with the sounds and influences that shaped his youth.
- This process allowed him to revisit positive memories and experiences, transforming them into creative expression.

8. **Lightening the Shadow:**
- Jones describes a shift in his mindset, moving from being driven by the shadow of his past to embracing the lightness of joy and freedom.
- He emphasizes the importance of making difficult decisions that ultimately lead to a more fulfilling life.

9. **Finding Balance in Family and Work:**
- Jones recognizes the challenge of balancing his career and family life, striving to create a harmonious existence that prioritizes both.
- He highlights the importance of setting boundaries and making conscious choices to ensure a healthy and fulfilling life.

10. **Embracing Imperfection:**
- Jones discusses his evolving approach to music production, moving away from perfectionism and embracing the beauty of flaws and human elements.
- He believes that this approach allows for more authentic and relatable music that resonates with listeners.

11. **The Importance of Self-Development:**
- Jones emphasizes the significance of continuous self-development and growth, pushing oneself to become better in all aspects of life.
- He stresses the importance of integrity, keeping one's word, and taking care of one's physical and mental well-being.

12. **Final Message of Encouragement:**
- Jones concludes with a powerful message, urging listeners to take control of their lives and pursue their dreams, regardless of their circumstances.
- He believes that everyone has the potential to achieve greatness and encourages them to embrace their journey with determination and resilience.

# Jax Jones: Overcoming Trauma to Find Deep Joy and Freedom

Jax Jones, known as Timucin Lam, is a renowned DJ, songwriter, and record producer who rose to fame in 2014. With over 35 million records sold and 4 billion streams, he opens up about his turbulent childhood, challenging family relationships, and immense pressure to succeed from a young age.

Growing up, Jones constantly felt followed by a dark shadow, driving him relentlessly to achieve his goals. Therapy from a young age led him to self-reflection and analysis, allowing him to extract valuable lessons from his life experiences.

Despite his success, Jones experienced a loss of love for music, joy, and a sense of depression during the global pandemic. This prompted him to confront his past traumas and work on his personal growth.

Jones emphasizes the importance of facing and understanding one's inner demons rather than running away from them. By doing so, he was able to replace the shadow with lightness and use it as a catalyst for growth.

The podcast highlights the concept of post-traumatic growth, where individuals can find fulfillment and happiness after experiencing traumatic events. Jones' journey exemplifies this concept, as he transformed his challenges into a positive outcome.

Jones' story resonates with the idea that overcoming past traumas can lead to deep joy, freedom, and excitement about the future. It challenges the notion that successful individuals cannot experience personal struggles and emphasizes the importance of addressing inner conflicts to achieve true fulfillment.

The podcast also explores the common thread among many high achievers, where they may experience apathy and inertia despite their accomplishments. Jones' experience of losing his passion for music and joy highlights the need to identify and nurture the activities that bring genuine happiness.

The discussion emphasizes the significance of designing one's life to include meaningful activities that bring joy and fulfillment, rather than just filling it with busyness and activity.

Overall, the podcast offers a powerful and inspiring message about overcoming adversity, finding joy, and designing a life that aligns with one's values and passions.

[00:00.000 -> 00:06.100] Hi there, I'm Jake Humphrey, and this is High Performance, the award-winning podcast that
[00:06.100 -> 00:11.360] reminds you it's already within. Greetings to our listeners right across the world who
[00:11.360 -> 00:17.080] tune in to us every week so we can be your armour, your partner, your guide in a world
[00:17.080 -> 00:23.460] that often feels so negative, so divisive, and so confused. Look, we really hope these
[00:23.460 -> 00:25.120] conversations remind you of your
[00:25.120 -> 00:30.440] power, of your potential, what all of us are capable of. So right now, please allow
[00:30.440 -> 00:35.040] myself and Professor Damien Hughes to unlock the mind of a fascinating
[00:35.040 -> 00:40.240] musician. Today, this awaits you.
[00:40.240 -> 00:46.620] I've noticed like, as I'm chasing these ideas, there's always this ghost behind me like this dark shadow. That's like
[00:47.400 -> 00:49.400] Trying to tell me all the usual things
[00:50.080 -> 00:52.080] well, now you're not gonna do that like
[00:53.040 -> 00:58.320] You're not good enough. You're shit. I was just mad depressed. I was did Brixton Academy
[00:58.320 -> 01:02.640] I'd by that time sold like I know 35 million records or something
[01:02.840 -> 01:05.120] But I just like felt so uninspired and I didn't like music 35 million records or something. But I just felt so uninspired
[01:05.120 -> 01:07.280] and I didn't like music anymore.
[01:07.280 -> 01:10.960] I think abandonment was important for me
[01:10.960 -> 01:14.080] because you learn to self-sustain.
[01:14.080 -> 01:17.560] My abandonment started, I guess you could argue,
[01:17.560 -> 01:19.520] when my biological father dipped.
[01:20.640 -> 01:23.040] But what moves the needle is making music
[01:23.040 -> 01:24.520] and that's how we speak to people.
[01:24.520 -> 01:32.620] That is what gives us the most joy. So I follow that joy and I make the critical decisions to allow
[01:32.620 -> 01:36.640] me to be in that joy as much as possible.
[01:36.640 -> 01:42.000] So today we welcome to the High Performance Podcast, Jax Jones, or to give him his real
[01:42.000 -> 01:47.320] name Timmer Chin. Now, Timmer Chin, or Jax, is best known
[01:47.320 -> 01:51.920] for being a DJ and working with the likes of, well, basically everyone. Whitney Houston,
[01:51.920 -> 01:58.320] Demi Lovato, Ed Sheeran, Mark Ronson, Mabel, years and years. You name it, Jax has done
[01:58.320 -> 02:02.440] it. He's also been selected recently to work with the Princess of Wales campaign, supporting
[02:02.440 -> 02:10.540] the development of young children. He owns his own record label. He's also a parent, a partner, a son, and he's so much
[02:10.540 -> 02:14.720] more than you think. This is a really moving conversation. This is not a conversation with
[02:14.720 -> 02:20.160] a musician about music. This is a conversation with a human being who just so happens to
[02:20.160 -> 02:25.040] produce music. We talk about his upbringing, we talk about some really difficult times.
[02:25.040 -> 02:29.520] It's an incredibly moving conversation. All three of us had tears in our eyes at one point.
[02:29.520 -> 02:35.080] I just want to say a really big thanks actually to Tim O'Chinn for being brave enough to come
[02:35.080 -> 02:39.960] onto this podcast and tell the real truth, the real truth about life in the music industry,
[02:39.960 -> 02:46.440] the real truth about facing challenges. The real truth about vulnerability.
[02:46.440 -> 02:49.040] There is still not enough vulnerability in this world.
[02:49.040 -> 02:51.680] The more vulnerable we are, the more honest we are,
[02:51.680 -> 02:53.320] and the more honest we are,
[02:53.320 -> 02:55.200] the more people can get to know the real us.
[02:55.200 -> 02:57.360] And I think getting to know the real person,
[02:57.360 -> 02:59.560] not the image that is shown publicly,
[02:59.560 -> 03:02.300] is what this podcast is all about.
[03:02.300 -> 03:04.840] So once again, I can't thank you enough for coming along
[03:04.840 -> 03:05.240] for another
[03:05.240 -> 03:09.640] episode of the High Performance Podcast. You are going to get plenty out of this one. Honestly,
[03:09.640 -> 03:18.320] it's an absolute cracker. So sit back, enjoy as we welcome Timothy Lamb, aka Jax Jones,
[03:18.320 -> 03:25.000] to the High Performance Podcast. you. We've locked in low prices to help you save big storewide. Look for the Locked In Low Prices tab on your mobile device. And when you download the Fred Meier app, you can enjoy over $500 in savings every week with digital coupons.
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[05:34.000 -> 05:38.000] Thanks for being with us.
[05:38.000 -> 05:41.000] Pleasure, man.
[05:41.000 -> 05:44.000] What in your mind represents high performance?
[05:44.000 -> 05:45.000] You're going to ask me this first start. I was getting ready for it at the end. Pleasure man. What in your mind represents high performance?
[05:47.000 -> 05:49.000] You're going to ask me this first start? I was getting ready for it at the end.
[05:50.000 -> 05:57.000] High performance to me is now in 2023 because it kind of changes
[05:57.000 -> 06:00.000] because I don't think I'm finished figuring things out.
[06:00.000 -> 06:06.360] But giving everything you have to my family and my career and the people
[06:06.360 -> 06:12.260] around me, even when you don't feel like you have anything left, just keep going.
[06:12.260 -> 06:16.640] So let's talk about that then, because the first thing you say is high performance now
[06:16.640 -> 06:20.160] represents something to me. So how different would the answer have been if I was talking
[06:20.160 -> 06:23.120] to you and you were 18 years old?
[06:23.120 -> 06:27.940] 18 year old Jax Jones was similar,
[06:27.940 -> 06:28.960] but I could be more selfish
[06:28.960 -> 06:29.800] cause I didn't have a family.
[06:29.800 -> 06:33.560] So it was all about spending hours
[06:33.560 -> 06:38.560] and sacrificing like a lot of different experiences
[06:40.040 -> 06:41.820] that your normal 18 year old should be having
[06:41.820 -> 06:43.640] to chase something that,
[06:43.640 -> 06:45.840] a dream that everyone
[06:45.840 -> 06:47.880] kind of didn't want you to have really.
[06:47.880 -> 06:48.880] What was the dream?
[06:48.880 -> 06:50.240] I wanted to be a musician.
[06:50.240 -> 06:52.760] When people talk about being a musician,
[06:52.760 -> 06:54.160] they say like, oh, do you know,
[06:54.160 -> 06:55.520] I just fell in love with music
[06:55.520 -> 06:57.520] or they have a memory associated with it.
[06:57.520 -> 06:59.760] Like, yeah, when my dad gave me this guitar
[06:59.760 -> 07:04.760] or I heard Bob Dylan and it just changed my life.
[07:04.780 -> 07:08.200] Music to me was a way out.
[07:08.200 -> 07:13.200] It was a way to mean something in this world
[07:13.440 -> 07:17.240] and a way to change my circumstances, really.
[07:17.240 -> 07:19.360] So what were those circumstances?
[07:19.360 -> 07:21.480] Well, at 18 years old,
[07:21.480 -> 07:24.440] I had quite a turbulent family relationship.
[07:24.440 -> 07:25.780] So kind of your classic
[07:25.780 -> 07:31.680] story I didn't really know my dad early doors and it was me and my mom for a few
[07:31.680 -> 07:37.480] years and then I had a stepdad and the family structure was a kind of a gift
[07:37.480 -> 07:47.700] and a curse and that's kind of like the paradox that runs through my life and at 18 I was going to uni because I was
[07:47.700 -> 07:54.520] academic I was very academic but at home every day was incredibly chaotic and
[07:54.520 -> 07:59.640] turbulent between me and my stepdad basically and I was kind of like the
[07:59.640 -> 08:07.320] butt of most of the problems in in the house and I had this idea that if I could get rich, if I could
[08:07.320 -> 08:13.280] be successful, no one can touch you no more man. And so like kind of the reason why I
[08:13.280 -> 08:20.520] call it a gift and a curse is because you're kind of, it makes you just an absolute warrior
[08:20.520 -> 08:27.440] because it just buries this like desire so deep so intertwined with your like
[08:27.440 -> 08:34.000] sense of self but at the same time I remember when I got like later in life
[08:34.000 -> 08:37.800] when I will kind of like I was like shit I've kind of done it now it kind of like
[08:37.800 -> 08:42.520] fuck what's what was it all for do you I'm saying so it was a it's a it's an
[08:42.520 -> 08:48.760] interesting thing to look back on now and it it's sweet because I can, I'm at the benefit where I can kind of look at it and we've achieved
[08:48.760 -> 08:49.760] in certain things.
[08:49.760 -> 08:53.280] But yeah, 18 was a mad time.
[08:53.280 -> 08:57.960] We'll talk about reflecting in a minute because you wrote this amazing manifesto, which we're
[08:57.960 -> 09:01.200] going to talk about and talk about in detail where it came from and why you did it.
[09:01.200 -> 09:08.780] But this energy from the sort of traumatic experiences as a young person is really interesting. I saw a quote the other day from someone
[09:08.780 -> 09:11.900] saying people who've been through a trauma or had really deep challenges in
[09:11.900 -> 09:16.380] their life, if they channel it in the right direction, can have an energy and a
[09:16.380 -> 09:22.140] desire that people who've lived a simpler life just can never recreate. Do
[09:22.140 -> 09:31.200] you understand that? Yes, I'm exploring that still. I've personally believed that, and I've anecdotally in most
[09:31.200 -> 09:35.760] of the successful, like highly charged, I guess high performing people, it's not just
[09:35.760 -> 09:40.580] like, it's people that, you're just like, how do they just, where do they get all this
[09:40.580 -> 09:45.440] energy from? Why are
[09:41.600 -> 09:48.840] they so good? Do you know what I'm saying? Why is it
[09:45.440 -> 09:52.080] they deliver? Usually there's some sort
[09:48.840 -> 09:54.320] of stress or trauma that's occurred
[09:52.080 -> 09:55.720] that's caused them to be like that and
[09:54.320 -> 09:58.200] it becomes the driving force for
[09:55.720 -> 10:00.400] everything. And so I wholeheartedly agree
[09:58.200 -> 10:03.520] with that man. And if it's like a...
[10:00.400 -> 10:05.320] I think that's a really interesting point Tim, because like we often
[10:03.520 -> 10:05.760] talk about that energy either comes from moving
[10:05.760 -> 10:12.000] away from something that might be traumatic or harrowing like you've described or it's moving
[10:12.000 -> 10:17.600] towards something that you're really passionate about and it seems like you met somewhere in that
[10:17.600 -> 10:23.040] sweet spot of wanting to escape from your circumstances but you've also discovered
[10:23.760 -> 10:27.120] an identity that you wanted to move towards.
[10:27.120 -> 10:29.240] I think it's the kind of like the things
[10:29.240 -> 10:30.440] that are around at the time.
[10:30.440 -> 10:32.200] And it's kind of why I'm doing this,
[10:32.200 -> 10:35.400] that kind of nostalgic tinged music that I'm doing now.
[10:35.400 -> 10:39.160] Cause it's like during the late 2000s,
[10:39.160 -> 10:40.560] around 2005 onwards,
[10:40.560 -> 10:42.360] and so this sort of finished secondary school,
[10:42.360 -> 10:44.880] going into uni and all that kind of stuff.
[10:44.880 -> 10:48.240] This was the rise of the super producer this was I used to be
[10:48.240 -> 10:53.200] reading the source magazine XXL and these were hip-hop import like magazines
[10:53.200 -> 10:59.080] and hip-hop for me was like my dad do you mean these were like men that you'd
[10:59.080 -> 11:03.680] see looking like they've just won do you I'm saying and the music pretty like
[11:03.680 -> 11:07.280] people like Jay-Z or there was Pharrell from the Neptunes,
[11:07.280 -> 11:10.560] and it was around the time that people who made music, especially the producers,
[11:10.560 -> 11:13.920] were the front of it. I remember the Neptunes had like,
[11:13.920 -> 11:17.680] at one year, like 25 songs on the radio at like one time, and
[11:18.800 -> 11:22.640] they were, they had the world applauding them at the same time,
[11:23.280 -> 11:26.080] whilst being able to live their
[11:26.080 -> 11:28.040] life to a certain extent.
[11:28.040 -> 11:34.360] So to me, I was chasing that idea whilst trying to run from everything else.
[11:34.360 -> 11:39.720] Because I've noticed as I'm chasing these ideas, there's always this ghost behind me,
[11:39.720 -> 11:44.280] this dark shadow that's trying to tell me all the usual things.
[11:44.280 -> 11:46.160] No, you're not going to do that. You're not tell me all the usual things. Now you're not gonna do that.
[11:46.160 -> 11:49.320] Like you're not good enough, you're shit.
[11:49.320 -> 11:50.160] Do you know what I'm saying?
[11:50.160 -> 11:51.960] Oh, you've upset that person.
[11:51.960 -> 11:54.920] That person's gonna hate you for the rest of your life
[11:54.920 -> 11:59.560] or you didn't deliver on that thing.
[11:59.560 -> 12:00.960] So now you fucked it.
[12:00.960 -> 12:01.800] Do you know what I mean?
[12:01.800 -> 12:06.320] You never, and but the wonderful thing about that shadow, which is
[12:06.320 -> 12:14.040] why I call it a gift and a curse, is because it makes you go extra hard. So I'm never not
[12:14.040 -> 12:19.320] prepared. I'm always thinking about how I'm coming across. I can read the room. Because
[12:19.320 -> 12:26.120] of my experiences growing up, my analysis of body language is so deep in me, I can like sense the
[12:26.120 -> 12:31.240] temperature of a room. So in my job as a music producer, like I can work with
[12:31.240 -> 12:36.320] people and get the best out of things and really build beautiful relationships
[12:36.320 -> 12:42.760] very quickly. But at the same time, that same voice can rip them apart.
[12:42.760 -> 12:49.000] Do you know what I'm saying? Because it doesn't, it will always drive me to whatever it thinks is my goal at that time.
[12:49.000 -> 12:56.000] Ruthlessly. And so it causes this effect where you burn hot and then you could just disappear, basically.
[12:56.000 -> 13:01.000] I mean there's so much to unpacking that on its own, but like, have you got a week?
[13:01.000 -> 13:07.760] Yeah, bro! No, but we're here! got a week? We here. I mean one of the things that you spoke up there about being able to
[13:07.760 -> 13:13.120] read the temperature of a room sort of takes me into the area of exploring the ghosts of
[13:13.120 -> 13:19.600] our childhood that often rattle around our adult bodies and I'm wondering is your ability
[13:19.600 -> 13:26.900] to read body language so acutely down to the fear of upsetting people in your own
[13:26.900 -> 13:32.540] environment and making a mistake and the consequences of what could follow from that?
[13:32.540 -> 13:41.220] That's exactly it, like it, through my teens, so we had my stepdad is Nigerian
[13:41.220 -> 13:47.720] and my mum's Chinese and then I'm Turkish and Chinese and I have a
[13:47.720 -> 13:53.720] younger brother who's Nigerian and Chinese so it's a mixed household with
[13:53.720 -> 14:01.680] that comes cultural differences and also just stepdad things and all of that I
[14:01.680 -> 14:04.780] want to make sure as well when I do these things that I don't talk bad on
[14:04.780 -> 14:07.840] people because they I think when you're exploring your truths
[14:07.840 -> 14:12.800] publicly sometimes you can't take back something you said 10 years ago so I
[14:12.800 -> 14:16.680] only want to give you facts, do you know what I'm saying? So in the house they used to
[14:16.680 -> 14:23.960] argue and it would be a lot my stepdad his feelings about situations would
[14:23.960 -> 14:27.120] control what we did in the house do you
[14:27.120 -> 14:31.520] know what I mean? A lot of it would be between me and him so perhaps I haven't done something to an
[14:31.520 -> 14:38.640] optimum level for his or he could be the smallest thing and it would create this cycle where he
[14:38.640 -> 14:45.040] would just take it all out on me or my mum. And so, there would become this idea where,
[14:45.040 -> 14:46.800] alright, my mum would say to me,
[14:46.800 -> 14:49.520] I need you to go and apologise,
[14:49.520 -> 14:52.720] or I need you to go and make this right,
[14:53.520 -> 14:55.920] so that we can continue to be a family.
[14:55.920 -> 14:58.320] And so, it just seasons you.
[14:58.320 -> 14:59.600] What age are you at this time?
[14:59.600 -> 15:02.240] This is from like, from eight to like,
[15:03.120 -> 15:04.480] it was still happening in my adult life,
[15:04.480 -> 15:07.280] to be honest with you. And only recently I've started to like it was still happening my adult life to be honest with you.
[15:07.280 -> 15:13.160] That is an incredible pressure, responsibility and an emotional weight
[15:13.160 -> 15:16.760] around the neck of an eight-year-old to say this family is reliant upon you
[15:16.760 -> 15:20.040] going and doing the right thing when you've got two adults in the house who
[15:20.040 -> 15:23.360] yeah we all now know are the first ones that should turn around and go let's
[15:23.360 -> 15:25.700] solve this not not as the eight-year-old to solve
[15:25.700 -> 15:26.420] the problem
[15:26.420 -> 15:30.840] Yeah, I hear that and I've got a daughter now and um, you know
[15:30.840 -> 15:37.520] I'm always checking my the way I approach things because it can creep out but a child and I'm doing my work with the you
[15:37.520 -> 15:43.960] know the Prince and Princess of Wales about shaping us with these young minds and I understand the psychology of a child where they
[15:44.320 -> 15:45.560] Even up to 21,
[15:45.560 -> 15:47.480] you ain't got the cognitive ability
[15:47.480 -> 15:48.680] to deal with certain things.
[15:48.680 -> 15:49.620] You're still impulsive.
[15:49.620 -> 15:51.400] You're still working out the world.
[15:52.480 -> 15:53.920] You're not an adult yet.
[15:53.920 -> 15:56.560] You know, so yeah, eight years old, it was a lot of stress.
[15:56.560 -> 16:00.000] One of my earliest memories was being like in therapy
[16:00.000 -> 16:01.640] when I was like, I had to draw a picture
[16:01.640 -> 16:02.700] or something in King's College
[16:02.700 -> 16:04.900] and talk about how I feel and all that.
[16:04.900 -> 16:06.200] How did you end up in therapy?
[16:06.200 -> 16:07.040] Was that a choice you made?
[16:07.040 -> 16:07.880] My mom took me there.
[16:07.880 -> 16:08.700] Your mom took you?
[16:08.700 -> 16:12.680] Yeah, my mom was what you'd call like a tiger mom.
[16:12.680 -> 16:14.640] She has her own story, do you know what I mean?
[16:14.640 -> 16:18.220] She come here, she came when she was 18
[16:18.220 -> 16:21.940] and she's from like a really nice middle-class background
[16:21.940 -> 16:24.160] in Malaysia, but she came here
[16:24.160 -> 16:25.400] and just didn't go back to
[16:25.400 -> 16:31.200] Malaysia really and she met my dad and then you know we got to where we were so
[16:31.200 -> 16:37.040] for her the idea she said to me was you need to be successful do you know what I mean like
[16:37.040 -> 16:40.820] you need to give everything this is a common thing you know whatever you do
[16:40.820 -> 16:46.280] you smash it you be the best in that room. You work harder than
[16:46.280 -> 16:51.480] everyone else. You are smarter than everyone else. But the gift and the curse is
[16:51.480 -> 16:57.520] then you've got this idea where, well if I'm not, then I'm fucked. And so I'm shit.
[16:57.520 -> 17:01.880] Do you know what I'm saying? So there's no middle ground for me.
[17:01.880 -> 17:05.040] Well even that comment you said about if we're gonna
[17:05.040 -> 17:08.840] function as a family depends on you doing it it's quite quite a dramatic
[17:08.840 -> 17:13.400] it's it's an all-or-nothing comment isn't it? Yeah yeah. It might be
[17:13.400 -> 17:18.400] uncomfortable for a few days it's this family can't exist unless you unless you
[17:18.400 -> 17:21.320] do that. There's no like middle-of-the-road conversations happening here is it
[17:21.320 -> 17:28.280] there's either horrendous you're awful or Tim you're amazing what you can do with it that's this is it that's a challenge
[17:28.280 -> 17:32.200] yeah and that becomes a story of your life would you be sitting here if it
[17:32.200 -> 17:36.960] wasn't for those messages at that age nah which takes us on to this manifesto
[17:36.960 -> 17:41.960] right because I feel that this document that you created is all about this
[17:41.960 -> 17:46.580] upbringing that is the energy now that drives Jacks
[17:46.580 -> 17:51.880] Jones. Yeah. We've got it. Would you mind for the people who are listening to this
[17:51.880 -> 17:55.060] podcast thinking this manifesto what is this? Would you mind just first of all
[17:55.060 -> 18:02.420] sharing how it came about? So it's 2020, lockdown hit and I remember literally I
[18:02.420 -> 18:05.960] was performing at Brixton Academy, we'd sold it out.
[18:05.960 -> 18:09.960] And I remember I made this valiant fist towards COVID.
[18:09.960 -> 18:12.280] I said, well, it's not, I thought I was Liam Gallagher.
[18:12.280 -> 18:14.080] I said, it's not gonna take us down.
[18:15.000 -> 18:16.520] It was a bit of a joke really.
[18:17.520 -> 18:19.760] And then the world stopped.
[18:19.760 -> 18:24.080] And then I took three weeks off
[18:24.080 -> 18:27.600] and then we had my first daughter on the way and I started
[18:27.600 -> 18:31.340] to think about being a father and how to approach that.
[18:31.340 -> 18:33.720] And then I was just mad depressed.
[18:33.720 -> 18:39.640] I did Brixton Academy, I by that time sold like, I don't know, 35 million records or
[18:39.640 -> 18:40.640] something.
[18:40.640 -> 18:43.920] I just felt so uninspired and I didn't like music anymore.
[18:43.920 -> 18:46.700] And I don't know, I didn't know why I was doing it anymore
[18:46.700 -> 18:52.340] and then I was up in Grimsby or which is where my wife's family's from and
[18:53.540 -> 18:56.860] It's super quiet there. So I just started doing some therapy
[18:57.700 -> 18:59.700] just trying to figure it out and
[18:59.780 -> 19:04.180] Also trying to unpack things so that I could be the best that I could be. So when you say therapy
[19:04.180 -> 19:06.480] What do what type of intervention?
[19:06.480 -> 19:14.000] So it started off as like some sort of training, so it was like finding your values, you know, this kind of thing.
[19:14.000 -> 19:20.480] But then I realised, I felt like it was a bit surface level, like I felt like I was given tropes that you could just find in a book.
[19:20.480 -> 19:27.320] So then I started with a therapist, shout out to Adam, and he's from a band
[19:27.320 -> 19:32.280] so he understood some of the idiosyncrasies of the music industry and
[19:32.280 -> 19:42.280] it was weekly sessions, chat, we explored, we still explore just my upbringing, my
[19:42.280 -> 19:46.600] approach and I remember I said to him, bruv, why don't I like music anymore? He's like, I'm not a coach.
[19:49.800 -> 19:52.680] Because at first I tried to link it in to perform better.
[19:52.680 -> 19:53.200] You basically just wanted answers, didn't you?
[19:53.200 -> 19:54.040] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:54.040 -> 19:57.040] And you realise when you go to therapy, this person's not going to give me answers.
[19:57.040 -> 19:57.560] No!
[19:57.560 -> 19:59.320] I have to find this stuff out for myself.
[19:59.640 -> 20:03.240] What I see therapy is now, it ain't nothing to do with the answers.
[20:03.240 -> 20:06.200] That's what I was saying to you when we first spoke, is like, this is what I think today.
[20:06.700 -> 20:12.500] It's more about the physical experience of being in an environment where someone is safe
[20:13.000 -> 20:19.300] and you can discuss things and there's no bias there.
[20:19.700 -> 20:20.800] It's just a reflection.
[20:21.000 -> 20:27.360] So you can kind of, that biological shift, it's like updating my parts to be like
[20:27.360 -> 20:30.400] oh well I've had an experience where I can communicate this and I'm not going to get my
[20:30.400 -> 20:36.240] head chopped off okay maybe it is safe and then you know that constant you know weekly
[20:37.360 -> 20:42.000] regroup on it allows you to experience life with that counterpoint and it was
[20:42.560 -> 20:48.880] it's sick man like now I like music again man I'm banging out the songs again man I'm enjoying it so it kind of led me to
[20:48.880 -> 20:54.500] that manifesto was it through doing the therapy basically. So look we could read
[20:54.500 -> 20:58.480] it out but it wouldn't be in our voice would you be happy to read it out for
[20:58.480 -> 21:07.600] the people listening to this so they can... Alright cool. How does it feel doing this? Feels weird, man. I've extremely guarded,
[21:07.600 -> 21:09.720] not in person as you can see,
[21:09.720 -> 21:11.880] but I think I'm in guarding in my career
[21:11.880 -> 21:16.880] because I think this idea of having to project perfectionism.
[21:17.400 -> 21:19.120] So then in order to protect that,
[21:19.120 -> 21:21.200] I don't say anything really.
[21:21.200 -> 21:22.880] I don't want people to know what I'm really like
[21:22.880 -> 21:24.960] because perhaps they won't like it.
[21:24.960 -> 21:27.000] So it feels weird that I'm about to read this.
[21:27.000 -> 21:28.500] Why did this go public then?
[21:28.500 -> 21:35.040] I was desperately trying to give a bit more of myself away to almost say to
[21:35.040 -> 21:39.680] myself that it's okay and it's led me to this moment so it must have been
[21:39.680 -> 21:45.400] okay. Shall we read it? Yeah. Alright. Dear friends, it's Jax, slash Timmy Chin.
[21:45.400 -> 21:47.400] I'm releasing a new song.
[21:47.400 -> 21:50.600] It marks the end of the most transformative time of my life.
[21:50.600 -> 21:56.000] From my debut single, I Got You, in 2013, to the Snacks album in 2019,
[21:56.000 -> 22:00.200] I've connected with billions of people, built a beautiful music family around the world.
[22:00.200 -> 22:04.200] The young Timmy Chin could never have imagined that any of this success was possible,
[22:04.200 -> 22:07.000] because I was born at the bottom of the pile and abandoned multiple times.
[22:07.000 -> 22:11.000] Music was the only way I could see to change my world for the better.
[22:11.000 -> 22:14.000] And now you guys have made my dreams come to life. Thank you.
[22:14.000 -> 22:16.000] But what the fuck do I do now?
[22:16.000 -> 22:20.000] I felt an urge to give back to my fans and I want my music to exist for a reason.
[22:20.000 -> 22:28.280] So this past year, I did a lot of soul searching, I became a father and faced down my past demons. These are crazy times where people are also
[22:28.280 -> 22:32.840] rebuilding their lives around the world. We aren't out of this yet but personally
[22:32.840 -> 22:36.280] when I broke through the other side of my darkness I found joy. Happiness is
[22:36.280 -> 22:40.720] rooted in the circumstance but joy is unwavering. Next I started asking how do
[22:40.720 -> 22:44.480] I put that feeling into music and how can I put narrative into music that's
[22:44.480 -> 22:48.160] supposed to just make you dance. So I listened to the music that
[22:48.160 -> 22:51.880] made me who I am and I remembered how it made me feel, the escapism, hope and
[22:51.880 -> 22:57.600] freedom. Welcome to deep joy, brackets a new era. The tunes coming are shaped by
[22:57.600 -> 23:01.360] joy not trends, made for the good times and the bad and real soon we'll play all
[23:01.360 -> 23:04.360] this music together in a field somewhere as loud as we can and dance like our
[23:04.360 -> 23:05.100] lives depend on it
[23:05.100 -> 23:09.820] Everyone is invited. This new song is called feels because this I feel right now
[23:11.040 -> 23:13.040] Emotional reading that
[23:14.080 -> 23:18.160] I feel slightly embarrassed. I feel
[23:19.120 -> 23:25.220] Slightly liberated. I feel like a part of me wants to box it in again. Yeah, I
[23:26.060 -> 23:28.060] Just feel
[23:28.140 -> 23:31.920] but isn't this the the power of therapy the power of
[23:32.700 -> 23:38.380] Challenging situations the power of success the power of becoming a parent the power of trusting people
[23:39.020 -> 23:44.380] Everything that you've just read there. You're not reading five ten fifteen twenty years ago
[23:46.080 -> 23:49.360] Yeah read there, you're not reading 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Yeah, because you're being told at that point, don't be you, and if you are going to be you, you is either
[23:49.360 -> 23:53.320] useless and no good, or you is amazing and wonderful. And actually what that is
[23:53.320 -> 24:00.800] doing is saying, I am flawed, I struggle, I have bad times, I have good times, but I
[24:00.800 -> 24:10.520] think the biggest thing that I get from hearing you read that is the optimism. I am optimistic. I hear you. And it's funny, I feel good hearing you say that. I need you
[24:10.520 -> 24:15.520] to say that for me to feel optimistic about it. I think the question I was asking myself
[24:15.520 -> 24:27.400] is was I doing music for me? Or was I doing it music for my mum or my dad or this idea, do you know what I'm saying? And I think when I wrote that letter,
[24:27.400 -> 24:32.400] I realised that I do love making people happy with music.
[24:32.960 -> 24:37.040] And I love the idea of a blank page
[24:37.040 -> 24:39.560] and you can craft something from nothing.
[24:39.560 -> 24:42.320] And it goes on to be someone's favourite song
[24:43.280 -> 24:46.480] or a memory that they have or a defining
[24:46.480 -> 24:53.160] moment in their life, that is incredible as a feeling so like I come back to that
[24:53.160 -> 24:57.160] and that yeah that is what ultimately what drives me now. But you could almost
[24:57.160 -> 25:03.280] be describing yourself there. Yeah. Coming from nothing, creating something from
[25:03.280 -> 25:05.440] nothing, you know, this idea of
[25:05.440 -> 25:10.640] being an important part of somebody's life. You're describing...
[25:10.640 -> 25:12.640] It's so paradoxic!
[25:12.640 -> 25:20.000] But it's fascinating, I mean there's so much to unpack on that manifesto. I'm interested for people
[25:20.000 -> 25:28.440] listening to this on, well how can I get to a place where I would feel able to be
[25:24.920 -> 25:31.520] vulnerable or to make myself so
[25:28.440 -> 25:32.800] candid in it? And I'm interested in that
[25:31.520 -> 25:35.920] phrase that you said about I was
[25:32.800 -> 25:38.120] abandoned multiple times, because I think
[25:35.920 -> 25:40.560] one of the biggest predictors in this
[25:38.120 -> 25:42.920] day and age is of mental health issues is
[25:40.560 -> 25:44.120] feeling isolated and when you're
[25:42.920 -> 25:49.360] writing that you're going through a period of isolation that Covid enforced on us, but your abandonment,
[25:49.360 -> 25:54.400] whether it's from your family, whether it's from the communities that you sought
[25:54.400 -> 25:58.280] to grow up in, tell us a little bit around what you've learned about
[25:58.280 -> 26:07.920] abandonment and how we can overcome it. I think abandonment was important for me because you learn to
[26:07.920 -> 26:13.920] self-sustain. I was literally talking about this the other week. My abandonment
[26:13.920 -> 26:20.160] started, I guess you could argue, when my biological father dipped. And what age was that?
[26:20.160 -> 26:26.120] 18 months. Like apparently he took, you know, he cheated on my mum, they were
[26:26.120 -> 26:31.600] together 10 years and then I was born, then he left, like, within a
[26:31.600 -> 26:36.000] couple of years and apparently he took all like the presents that I got as a
[26:36.000 -> 26:41.280] kid, you know, the jewellery, you get a lot of jewellery and then he sold it and got
[26:41.280 -> 26:46.600] that as his ticket to go back to Turkey. And I remember just hearing them stories,
[26:46.600 -> 26:49.220] like now it's like, well, what happened there?
[26:49.220 -> 26:52.760] And then we went to Malaysia
[26:52.760 -> 26:54.680] because we were homeless basically,
[26:54.680 -> 26:55.760] stayed my grandparents there.
[26:55.760 -> 26:59.220] And then a new guy comes into my life.
[27:00.260 -> 27:03.360] And I remember that feeling of it.
[27:03.360 -> 27:06.800] And I remember when my mom changed her surname and just all of that,
[27:06.800 -> 27:08.320] you just felt very isolated.
[27:08.320 -> 27:09.000] Do you know what I'm saying?
[27:09.000 -> 27:11.880] And you kind of, you're having to navigate that.
[27:12.280 -> 27:16.560] And then even into my adult life, like, that narrative follows you.
[27:16.560 -> 27:20.600] Like, so when I finished uni, I got back and it was just so bad at home
[27:20.600 -> 27:22.320] that I just had to leave.
[27:22.320 -> 27:30.080] We had a friend, family friend that had a converted garage that they'd made into like a studio and luckily it was a
[27:30.080 -> 27:33.960] family friend I didn't have to do any credit checks or anything. I had like
[27:33.960 -> 27:40.360] minus £2,000 in my overdraft, luckily no interest, big up the big up Halifax and
[27:40.360 -> 27:48.000] I had my student loan all that and I just went and lived there I remember the rent was £500 and I managed to negotiate to £495
[27:48.000 -> 27:51.000] Fucking £5 off
[27:51.000 -> 27:56.000] and then I was just in this garage, like on my own
[27:56.000 -> 28:03.000] and I just, I think I felt really betrayed that just no one stood up for me
[28:03.000 -> 28:05.480] you just feel abandoned, you're just... I
[28:05.480 -> 28:10.880] didn't realize it at the time, that that garage, I was healing myself at the same
[28:10.880 -> 28:12.240] time, do you know what I'm saying?
[28:12.240 -> 28:14.960] I'll tell us about that, you know, like you're there in the
[28:14.960 -> 28:20.600] garage, you're feeling betrayed, abandoned, these are all quite heavy feelings to
[28:20.600 -> 28:26.240] have to process in your early 20s, but you obviously did to be able to process it in your early 20s,
[28:22.720 -> 28:28.600] but you obviously did to be able to use it
[28:26.240 -> 28:31.520] as a springboard to go on to the
[28:28.600 -> 28:34.080] success you've enjoyed. So tell us what
[28:31.520 -> 28:38.320] kind of processes you went through on that
[28:34.080 -> 28:41.520] healing journey. So for me, I buried
[28:38.320 -> 28:48.400] myself into my work and I put all that energy of negativity into achieving what I needed to do.
[28:48.400 -> 28:53.680] So it became my fuel. I tried not to think too much about it really.
[28:53.680 -> 29:02.000] I just would use every waking minute to try and have this idea that I was chasing to
[29:02.000 -> 29:05.040] make it manifest itself. These are the practical
[29:05.040 -> 29:08.720] aspects, you know, whether it was going out to meet people or practicing my
[29:08.720 -> 29:13.660] instruments, practicing my craft. That 10,000 hours, you know, I did it leading
[29:13.660 -> 29:20.240] up and then accelerated it in that point. I never said no to anything. Any
[29:20.240 -> 29:25.680] opportunity was an opportunity for me to go another step.
[29:25.680 -> 29:27.920] There was no ego in that, really.
[29:27.920 -> 29:32.000] I didn't have any feelings of, oh, that's not me.
[29:32.000 -> 29:33.600] There was just no choice.
[29:33.600 -> 29:37.120] So I was playing in churches, trying to, you know,
[29:37.120 -> 29:40.320] make money to pay for the next day's food.
[29:40.320 -> 29:40.880] Do you know what I'm saying?
[29:40.880 -> 29:44.960] I was sessioning at the time and I ran into an A&R
[29:44.960 -> 29:45.520] that was looking after N-Dubs. Oh? I was sessioning at the time and I ran into an A&R that was looking
[29:45.520 -> 29:53.440] after Ndubs, he was their manager at the time and Ndubs became my first job and I started playing
[29:53.440 -> 29:57.360] guitar for them and I became the youngest music director in the country for them.
[29:58.000 -> 30:03.760] I remember their first tour, I had neurovirus, I was vomiting, I was programmed, I didn't know
[30:03.760 -> 30:05.280] what I was doing and we made it happen. I was vomiting, I was programmed, I didn't know what I was doing
[30:09.480 -> 30:12.040] and I just, we made it happen, I was vomiting up the motorway to get to the gig and we played this show and I went and vomited straight afterwards
[30:12.040 -> 30:17.040] you just kept going and I lifted myself out of my overdraft to like 40 grand that year
[30:17.760 -> 30:20.400] do you know what I mean? So I'd used it for fuel
[30:20.920 -> 30:23.240] do you know what I mean? And I just, what I'm good at
[30:23.880 -> 30:25.440] when it comes to these feelings is I just bury it and I mean? And I just, what I'm good at when it comes to these feelings
[30:25.440 -> 30:28.940] is I just bury it and I get very, I got,
[30:28.940 -> 30:31.860] I can be very cold, I can be very aloof
[30:33.060 -> 30:35.700] because I'm not sure if you're gonna abandon me.
[30:35.700 -> 30:37.700] So those remnants are still there,
[30:37.700 -> 30:42.700] but there is power in being comfortable with isolation
[30:43.540 -> 30:47.040] and perhaps feeling like you can only depend
[30:47.040 -> 30:52.480] on yourself. So yeah, my advice to someone who has been abandoned is if you
[30:52.480 -> 30:58.880] can use it positively, you kind of have a special power because you're like, you
[30:58.880 -> 31:02.600] don't look for anyone to help you, you're just gonna do it. Do you know what I mean?
[31:02.600 -> 31:10.240] And it's because life or death at that point really. This phrase, you just gotta do it, right? Let's talk about what just doing it
[31:10.240 -> 31:15.040] looks like from your perspective, because I think one thing that maybe we're guilty of on this
[31:15.040 -> 31:20.720] podcast is not talking often enough about hard work, real genuine hard work. I think sometimes
[31:20.720 -> 31:27.160] there's a fear that it's an unhealthy thing to discuss, like, you know, to push people and drive people in this way.
[31:27.160 -> 31:28.280] But we have to talk about it, right?
[31:28.280 -> 31:34.380] So you've been abandoned to the point where you're living in a garage, but you've decided
[31:34.380 -> 31:36.960] to still follow your dreams, which is incredible.
[31:36.960 -> 31:41.040] And there'll be so many people listening to this who either are at that stage now, and
[31:41.040 -> 31:44.880] this will help them hugely, or people who perhaps allowed their dreams to fade at that
[31:44.880 -> 31:47.320] point. And maybe this is the conversation that hopefully reignites
[31:47.320 -> 31:51.360] the dreams for them because it's never too late right? So you've gone through
[31:51.360 -> 31:56.360] all of this then you start to get these little bits of success. Yeah. It feels to
[31:56.360 -> 32:00.920] me like there's no resting on laurels, there's no oh I've made it, it's almost
[32:00.920 -> 32:04.160] the opposite it's like now I'm gonna show you. Now all of those doubters, now
[32:04.160 -> 32:05.160] all of those haters, now all of that show you now all of those doubters now all of those haters now
[32:05.160 -> 32:12.600] All of that criticism now all of that pain now you are gonna see what I'm capable of. Let's go to that point in your life. I
[32:13.860 -> 32:15.040] mean
[32:15.040 -> 32:20.760] When you talk about doubters and haters, I literally have nightmares about some of those people sometimes I'll wake up even now
[32:20.760 -> 32:30.160] Yeah, you know, you've sold tens of millions of records. No, it still chases me. I told you there's always that shadow around. It's less so now. I said to
[32:30.160 -> 32:35.580] my wife I'm in the, I think I'm in the happiest point of my life now. But I'm
[32:35.580 -> 32:40.720] still trying to get myself to understand that. But I'll have a nightmare that, you
[32:40.720 -> 32:49.560] know, my stepdad's screaming at me, do you know what I'm saying? Or, you know, the amount of people that have said to me, I think I started Jax
[32:49.560 -> 32:53.720] Jones when I was 25, 26, the amount of people that said like, oh, you'll never be
[32:53.720 -> 32:57.960] able to finish a record. I was in a band signed to, after sessioning, I joined a
[32:57.960 -> 33:05.040] band and I remember the A&R said to the producers, just keep Jax Jones, Timmons out the studio.
[33:07.760 -> 33:10.440] He's not, he doesn't know what he's doing. And you carry all of that.
[33:10.440 -> 33:12.880] For me, when I think about hard work,
[33:12.880 -> 33:14.440] there is an element of sacrifice.
[33:14.440 -> 33:16.760] That's the bit that I guess people,
[33:16.760 -> 33:19.840] when I see things now, like little headlines,
[33:19.840 -> 33:21.920] like, oh, do you know, be who you are,
[33:21.920 -> 33:23.040] who you want to be in this,
[33:23.040 -> 33:25.000] like, oh, people's all about entrepreneurism now
[33:25.000 -> 33:26.320] and all that.
[33:26.320 -> 33:29.520] And there's immense sacrifice with this.
[33:29.520 -> 33:33.680] And for me, I didn't have any social life.
[33:33.680 -> 33:35.200] I still don't now.
[33:35.200 -> 33:38.440] You know, it was the first thing to go
[33:38.440 -> 33:43.440] because I would spend hours doing what I think I need
[33:43.840 -> 33:45.680] to be doing to prepare myself.
[33:45.680 -> 33:54.320] It can be very lonely, you know, because you're in a situation where other people
[33:54.320 -> 33:58.040] perhaps don't have the same dream as you or they think you're being too ambitious.
[33:58.040 -> 34:01.480] I remember I used to get told like, oh, you know, you're really arrogant about it
[34:01.480 -> 34:04.800] because you're trying to do something that seems inconceivable.
[34:04.800 -> 34:09.240] It's the willingness to do it that keeps you performing again and again and again
[34:09.240 -> 34:13.800] and sometimes I get tired, you know what I mean? You know, you're like, I want to stop but I
[34:13.800 -> 34:17.480] still have that energy.
[34:18.800 -> 34:22.800] On our podcast we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a
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[35:59.080 -> 36:04.880] So the success doesn't take away the energy of wanting to prove people wrong, wanting
[36:04.880 -> 36:06.760] to get that success that was
[36:06.760 -> 36:10.480] that fire that was lit in you as a young kid. The success doesn't take that away, but it
[36:10.480 -> 36:13.920] also sounds like the success doesn't make you happy. I mean, there are people listening
[36:13.920 -> 36:18.480] to this, wannabe musicians, wannabe actors, entrepreneurs, whatever, thinking how can
[36:18.480 -> 36:22.760] that guy, I mean like you put a Jax Jones song on, right, every single person in this
[36:22.760 -> 36:27.760] room would know it. My kids, like when I said you were coming on the podcast my little dancer daughter. I had you
[36:29.640 -> 36:31.640] Cost us money, but
[36:31.840 -> 36:33.760] so the point is like
[36:33.760 -> 36:40.820] People listening to this think that is where the joy is. That's where the happiness is. That's where you finally go. Ha did it
[36:41.360 -> 36:44.280] How the hell did you get to 2020 and not have any joy?
[36:45.440 -> 36:47.360] There were moments of happiness, guys.
[36:47.360 -> 36:48.200] Yeah.
[36:48.200 -> 36:51.540] I remember that song that I talk about here, I Got You.
[36:52.400 -> 36:57.400] It was my favorite times in my career is now actually,
[36:59.560 -> 37:04.560] but also that 2013 moment.
[37:04.640 -> 37:12.860] And ironically that time in the garage, because, so 2013, I was signed
[37:12.860 -> 37:16.620] to Atlantic Records and we'd been dropped.
[37:16.620 -> 37:22.160] And this was because from session in I felt, okay, session in I still have to go to work
[37:22.160 -> 37:23.160] to get paid.
[37:23.160 -> 37:26.720] I'd never taken a day off until, or holiday ever,
[37:26.720 -> 37:28.680] really, until I was like 27.
[37:29.920 -> 37:31.360] My wife convinced me, basically.
[37:31.360 -> 37:32.520] We've been together, my wife,
[37:32.520 -> 37:35.560] we've been together for 11 years, so she knows me.
[37:35.560 -> 37:36.820] How did you guys meet?
[37:36.820 -> 37:39.080] I was in my band and we went to,
[37:39.080 -> 37:40.680] she thought I looked like Bruno Mars,
[37:40.680 -> 37:42.600] and our friend introduced us.
[37:42.600 -> 37:44.200] We had a mutual friend and like,
[37:44.200 -> 37:45.080] she called me a dickhead
[37:45.080 -> 37:48.540] when she first met me because I had a nose piercing in my... I was doing all the shit
[37:48.540 -> 37:53.320] that people in bands do like get tattoos because they're bored and get piercings and all that
[37:53.320 -> 37:57.480] shit. The cliches. The cliches I was doing. I was still figuring myself out, do you know
[37:57.480 -> 38:03.000] what I mean? And then I remember she said I was so badly dressed as well. And then we
[38:03.000 -> 38:05.680] went on three dates because I had this idea that
[38:05.680 -> 38:10.880] I could accelerate like the getting to know you process by going on three dates
[38:10.880 -> 38:17.520] in one night. I was like well it'll feel like you've known each other your whole life surely.
[38:17.520 -> 38:23.040] So what did you do? Like go apart and then come meet again? No no no so we just go to three
[38:23.040 -> 38:31.280] different places do you know what I'm saying? And then I remember, yeah, I just thought she was fascinating. I still do. She's one of the
[38:31.920 -> 38:37.680] most secure people I've ever met in my life, so it's so, I like to watch her a lot to learn things.
[38:37.680 -> 38:50.780] But I'm intrigued as to, like you said, that you often, like you can be cold, you anticipate being rejected, you know, you find it hard to make friends. What did she do to get over
[38:50.780 -> 38:59.260] those barriers that you put up? I think she allowed me to be, I think, and my wife
[38:59.260 -> 39:08.240] is very, very patient but also very confident in herself she was unwavering so I can push
[39:08.240 -> 39:14.600] against her and she sees it all do I'm saying but then is able to able to hold
[39:14.600 -> 39:19.400] amongst that and it just became very safe when I think of my wife it's so safe
[39:19.400 -> 39:25.760] and it's very she comes from a very different background to me I can't be I'm saying it's like Grimsby was almost exotic to me it's like, she comes from a very different background to me, I can't believe I'm saying this,
[39:25.760 -> 39:27.760] like Grimsby was almost exotic to me.
[39:27.760 -> 39:30.240] It's like, wow, this is, she has a beautiful family,
[39:30.240 -> 39:32.320] she's 30 people in their family in Grimsby,
[39:32.320 -> 39:35.080] that small community kind of thing.
[39:35.080 -> 39:37.040] And I just thought this is amazing.
[39:37.040 -> 39:39.800] And they all love each other and they all work really hard
[39:39.800 -> 39:40.700] on their relationships.
[39:40.700 -> 39:42.880] And she herself is like a linchpin.
[39:43.920 -> 39:45.560] We always say like if you're
[39:45.560 -> 39:50.720] falling out with D'Andra then it must be you because she's the bridge.
[39:50.720 -> 39:57.320] She just will give it everything and so it's just everything I
[39:57.320 -> 40:00.640] never had really. I love it when you say she just let me be me because it's like
[40:00.640 -> 40:05.840] you know your early upbringing was either giving you over positive information
[40:05.840 -> 40:09.360] or negative information. Is there a power, do you think, for people listening to this
[40:09.360 -> 40:13.580] in just allowing people, you don't have to have an opinion about them, you can just let
[40:13.580 -> 40:17.000] them be who they want to be?
[40:17.000 -> 40:21.440] That's the ideal. And I think within a family set up, there is a balance because I've been
[40:21.440 -> 40:28.960] thinking about this with my daughter, she's got a very different life to me. The only way I know is sacrifice and stress to get
[40:28.960 -> 40:36.360] what you want. So how do I let her just be? And I think there is power in you being comfortable
[40:36.360 -> 40:48.320] with the you as you are and the people around you. But there's also power in knowing that you do have to offer value at points and step up to things.
[40:48.320 -> 40:54.320] And it's that middle ground, not being so binary where your self-esteem is affected by such.
[40:54.320 -> 40:57.120] I'm trying to do it where it comes from a place of love.
[40:57.120 -> 41:03.120] So I think just being is cool, but also sometimes you've got to be a bit greater than yourself.
[41:03.120 -> 41:06.960] Then perhaps you didn't know you had to be, didn't know that you had it.
[41:07.520 -> 41:09.880] So I still subscribe to a growth mindset.
[41:10.160 -> 41:14.160] I still subscribe to the idea that I might,
[41:14.280 -> 41:16.400] I want to be better than who I was yesterday,
[41:16.840 -> 41:21.760] but it comes from a place of not for you, it's for me.
[41:22.400 -> 41:24.880] Tell us a little bit more about your relationship though,
[41:24.880 -> 41:29.160] because you speak about a narrative and the journey that you're on in terms of
[41:29.160 -> 41:34.520] your career but it seems that it coincides with your relationship of
[41:34.520 -> 41:39.360] finally finding a place where you could be you, where you could belong, where you
[41:39.360 -> 41:44.680] could almost plug the gaps that you didn't have in your own childhood. So we
[41:44.680 -> 41:48.520] met just as I said I was getting dropped and I was trying to figure out
[41:48.520 -> 41:56.280] what I was needed to do next and her dad was pretty successful and I remember I
[41:56.280 -> 41:59.680] was telling her you know I remember the first date we went on I brought out a 50
[41:59.680 -> 42:03.480] pound note and I paid for our little smoothie with the little 50 pound note
[42:03.480 -> 42:05.420] I think I was trying to show off and then she says time
[42:05.420 -> 42:07.420] Yeah, yeah, that was all I had
[42:09.840 -> 42:11.840] But she used to literally
[42:12.340 -> 42:16.020] sit with me and tell me why I should give a shit about myself and
[42:16.780 -> 42:19.220] We used to do ten things to love about yourself
[42:19.220 -> 42:24.580] I'm saying and so we'd sit and she'd write me these letters for me to hold on to I still keep them
[42:24.580 -> 42:30.960] I would reflect on them and I remember so 2013. I got you when I made that song it was
[42:31.480 -> 42:38.240] About her really I sampled Whitney Houston. My love is your love, which I think is a beautiful song and
[42:38.840 -> 42:40.400] then I
[42:40.400 -> 42:44.440] Made it into this kind of balleric house record. I made it on my birthday
[42:44.440 -> 42:49.380] The demo was called the birthday song and I'd even sampled for the intro her
[42:49.380 -> 42:53.340] cousins, her little young nine-year-old cousins singing me happy birthday and
[42:53.340 -> 42:58.900] it's in the record, it's like buried in there yeah and I played it to her. I
[42:58.900 -> 43:02.740] remember she was in bed at the time just like it was like early. I said I listen to
[43:02.740 -> 43:10.360] this, she goes I love that, like it's beautiful. And then I went to lunch, you know, as you do on your birthday. And
[43:10.360 -> 43:17.240] then that song ended up, you know, getting Grammy nominated and Brit nominated. It was
[43:17.240 -> 43:23.800] a number one record. And I remember thinking it was just a really pure moment. And I'd
[43:23.800 -> 43:25.440] never done house music, really. That was like the second, third. And I'd never done house music really.
[43:25.440 -> 43:28.160] That was like the second, third house record I'd made.
[43:28.800 -> 43:32.800] I grew up on hip-hop, on R&B, and like predominantly black music, you know.
[43:32.800 -> 43:35.920] Although, like, house is a black genre in its roots, but
[43:35.920 -> 43:38.640] dance music was very foreign to me in that respect.
[43:38.640 -> 43:41.280] But I put all that soul into it.
[43:42.080 -> 43:45.840] And like, those chapters define our life do you mean like all the way
[43:45.840 -> 43:51.220] so when we got married in 2018 that was the song you know that we first
[43:51.220 -> 43:58.120] danced to you man. So nice there's a line in the manifesto where you said that the
[43:58.120 -> 44:04.880] tunes coming now are shaped by joy not trends so I wonder whether you're now
[44:04.880 -> 44:06.000] making music with more freedom
[44:06.000 -> 44:08.640] than you've ever made it before and what that does for you?
[44:08.640 -> 44:14.720] Oh mate, I am making music with more freedom and there is a physical
[44:14.720 -> 44:18.120] representation of it because when I'm in the studio with people that have known
[44:18.120 -> 44:30.880] me for years they all say to me, you seem happier bruv, you just seem lighter. I said I am, I'm just doing me now
[44:30.880 -> 44:37.680] you know I'm the most inspired I've ever been and that's because I started to
[44:37.680 -> 44:44.320] search for the to take back the records and that time of my life in my teens I'm
[44:44.320 -> 44:45.760] reclaiming it for myself.
[44:45.760 -> 44:50.880] And there's a ways you could do it like some artists interpret that as I'm gonna
[44:50.880 -> 44:56.760] talk about mental health in my songs, talk about my journey. Well I'm a dance
[44:56.760 -> 45:04.800] music producer and I'm not singing yet perhaps but like as I said how can I put
[45:04.800 -> 45:06.460] narrative into this and so for me
[45:06.460 -> 45:12.520] it's using that Andy Warhol approach of mashing pop culture so taking those
[45:12.520 -> 45:18.480] songs that were familiar to me as a 16 year old 18 year old those times of our
[45:18.480 -> 45:21.900] lives they're so important to us yeah you meet people when they're 30 they
[45:21.900 -> 45:26.020] listen to a record that's past that time of their life
[45:26.840 -> 45:28.040] so
[45:28.040 -> 45:30.220] taking all those sounds, the fashion and
[45:31.800 -> 45:33.800] Mashing them together and make it in my own
[45:34.840 -> 45:40.640] today in 2023 and it's allowing me to relive those experiences positively and
[45:41.160 -> 45:45.520] It's been so liberating all those times because I used to use that music
[45:45.520 -> 45:51.560] to give me fuel, you know, when it would get heavy at home, I'd just go out on my bike
[45:51.560 -> 45:56.880] and I would have my little Walkman. I batted those Walkmans like and just listen to the
[45:56.880 -> 46:02.160] music again and again and again. It was therapy for me. You know what I'm saying? So to be
[46:02.160 -> 46:05.680] able to go and revisit those sounds, like whether it's the
[46:06.480 -> 46:12.700] Eurodance vibes or the R&B hip-hop aesthetic and putting it into my music now is, it feels great.
[46:12.960 -> 46:18.320] You used a phrase that the feedback that you've had in the studio from people that know you is, a lightness.
[46:18.880 -> 46:25.800] Which to me doesn't seem like an accident because you've also spoken about the shadow.
[46:25.800 -> 46:31.760] So casting light on the shadow is almost a metaphor for what you've described
[46:31.760 -> 46:36.080] when you look back over what might have been a traumatic childhood through one
[46:36.080 -> 46:41.200] lens, you're now able to cast it in a more positive light, shine the light on
[46:41.200 -> 46:45.120] the benefits that you got from it. How have you done that and
[46:45.120 -> 46:52.360] how can our listeners that maybe are struggling with being able to carry that
[46:52.360 -> 46:56.600] weight or to live with that shadow, how could they do it?
[46:56.600 -> 47:02.000] I want to frame how I say this by saying that it works for me. Yeah. And I think
[47:02.000 -> 47:07.300] being careful advice because my personality is different from yours,
[47:07.300 -> 47:10.820] but if there's some energy you can take from this, take it.
[47:10.820 -> 47:15.580] For me, it was about making decisions that I knew
[47:15.580 -> 47:17.000] perhaps that were difficult,
[47:17.000 -> 47:20.960] but that would allow me to get better than what I had before.
[47:20.960 -> 47:23.620] So even if I didn't wanna do it,
[47:24.540 -> 47:28.540] so, and that sometimes is hard, so it would be
[47:28.540 -> 47:31.800] when I'm presented with a situation like, oh I don't know if I'm good enough to do
[47:31.800 -> 47:35.720] that, I don't know if I can be in that room, I don't know if I feel like doing
[47:35.720 -> 47:41.760] this today, but I know that if I do do that I'm gonna get one step closer to an
[47:41.760 -> 47:45.800] idea that I won't be in this situation no more.
[47:45.800 -> 47:50.000] I turn up and I just do it.
[47:50.000 -> 47:56.440] I still have it now, you know, where I'm traveling around the world and, you know, I'm finding
[47:56.440 -> 47:58.200] less time to make music.
[47:58.200 -> 48:01.760] So I'm shaping my life now where my team thought I was mad.
[48:01.760 -> 48:06.760] I was like, I only want to do 25 shows this year, make them important.
[48:06.760 -> 48:09.200] But what moves the needle is making music
[48:09.200 -> 48:10.680] and that's how we speak to people.
[48:10.680 -> 48:13.400] That is what gives us the most joy.
[48:13.400 -> 48:18.340] So I follow that joy and I make the critical decisions
[48:18.340 -> 48:21.900] to allow me to be in that joy as much as possible.
[48:23.080 -> 48:26.320] So you have to design your life and that is tricky
[48:26.320 -> 48:31.400] because they're gonna be people that say you can't do that what about us? You have
[48:31.400 -> 48:38.420] to be so resolute in that respect. I'm not saying be so cruel but you have to
[48:38.420 -> 48:43.760] protect yourself in that respect. Follow the joy and know that it's a work in
[48:43.760 -> 48:45.400] progress as well and
[48:47.120 -> 48:51.800] you kind of To be compassionate to yourself at the same time while you're doing it. I think that's an important point actually
[48:51.800 -> 48:53.800] You know what? We don't want to do is sit here and go
[48:54.520 -> 49:00.340] Tim had a really traumatic upbringing but then lockdown came and he had an epiphany and now he's happy like that's not real life
[49:00.340 -> 49:04.120] Right. No, no, he's the shadow still there. The nightmares are there sometimes and
[49:04.640 -> 49:07.720] You know everything passes, you Now things are great but that
[49:07.720 -> 49:10.440] doesn't mean they will always be great but also it means that when they're not
[49:10.440 -> 49:16.360] great then they can be great again. They can be great. Look, like it's all relative.
[49:16.360 -> 49:21.680] You can kind of, there is a what's meant to happen in my opinion when you get to
[49:21.680 -> 49:30.560] a certain age is it's meant to come together you're meant to have the idea is you build up these decisions and then
[49:30.560 -> 49:36.160] eventually you get to a point where I do you know what it's actually my life is
[49:36.160 -> 49:41.200] working for me now I've got less negative people around me I've got
[49:41.200 -> 49:47.200] perhaps the people that I found triggering for me, I've drawn those boundaries and it's healthier,
[49:47.200 -> 49:50.400] or I've had to move on from those situations.
[49:50.400 -> 49:53.160] Like I'm doing it now with, okay,
[49:53.160 -> 49:56.080] how much time do I wanna spend doing work?
[49:56.080 -> 49:57.700] How much time do I wanna spend with my family?
[49:57.700 -> 49:59.320] What does that look like?
[49:59.320 -> 50:02.600] And believe me, even within that,
[50:02.600 -> 50:04.040] in my little world, it's hard.
[50:04.040 -> 50:07.720] Like, because when I'm spending time with my family, which is super important to me, even within that, in my little world, it's hard. Like, because when I'm spending time with my family,
[50:07.720 -> 50:09.320] which is super important to me,
[50:09.320 -> 50:12.360] because I want to be delivering on everything.
[50:12.360 -> 50:15.400] I remember a Will Smith quote saying,
[50:15.400 -> 50:17.760] people need to work as hard on their family
[50:17.760 -> 50:19.320] as they do on their business.
[50:19.320 -> 50:20.880] And if you did, you'd probably have a really good
[50:20.880 -> 50:21.720] family life.
[50:21.720 -> 50:23.760] So I give it my all.
[50:23.760 -> 50:30.640] I'm thinking about how I can be better but that ghost sometimes is shouting at me
[50:30.640 -> 50:34.240] when I'm hanging out with my kid, what about all that work you gotta do? What
[50:34.240 -> 50:38.760] about all of this? So it's aggressive sometimes man and you kind of half in
[50:38.760 -> 50:43.240] half out so it's hard, the challenge is still but the reason why I say it's the
[50:43.240 -> 50:48.220] happiest because I've made some tough calls and so the good outweighs the bad.
[50:48.220 -> 50:54.640] Okay, but you operate in an industry that is dominated by chart position and sales,
[50:54.640 -> 50:59.680] right? Yeah. You know, you will lose your job or you lose your deal if you
[50:59.680 -> 51:03.540] aren't commercially successful because that's the world. So where are you at now
[51:03.540 -> 51:09.800] with that? You've said in the manifesto, happiness is rooted in circumstance, joy is unwavering. Is joy
[51:09.800 -> 51:16.880] still unwavering if the new Tim, the new Jax Jones, operating with freedom, finally telling
[51:16.880 -> 51:20.080] the world the truth about his story, which by the way, I wish you'd done it years ago
[51:20.080 -> 51:23.000] because it would have been freeing for you, but I'm so pleased you have because it is
[51:23.000 -> 51:24.000] an incredible story.
[51:24.000 -> 51:26.780] I appreciate it. Thanks for giving me the platform again talking to us but
[51:26.780 -> 51:32.840] where does the joy sit if the new you isn't as commercially as successful as
[51:32.840 -> 51:41.900] the Tim who was driven by trauma I hear that it happened yet I do ma'am if I
[51:41.900 -> 51:45.520] lose that sense of identity that I have
[51:46.960 -> 51:52.320] will I fall apart? I can't give you the answer yet. I still think my best work is yet to come because
[51:53.400 -> 51:54.920] I'm
[51:54.920 -> 51:56.200] removing
[51:56.200 -> 51:58.740] where I drove my music to have perfection
[51:59.680 -> 52:05.200] you know, that's a big part of my process is trying to like think of my music a bit like a
[52:06.000 -> 52:12.000] whiskey that's been aged in a certain way and everything or a watch like, you know, this idea
[52:12.000 -> 52:16.880] of everything works in a certain way. Everything in my music is there for a reason and so I'd like
[52:16.880 -> 52:21.600] to distill it to its simplest form. So that's why sometimes I get accused of being simple,
[52:21.600 -> 52:32.240] but that's actually the joy that I take in making music. This idea of perfectionism. Now I'm interested in the idea of reducing that perfectionism,
[52:32.240 -> 52:40.240] keeping the flaws in there, keeping the human element in there and seeing what that feels like.
[52:40.240 -> 52:45.880] Will that translate more or resonate more for me or with people?
[52:46.280 -> 52:50.720] And the first foray into that was Where Did You Go, which came out last year.
[52:51.040 -> 52:53.920] And at the time, no one was doing the Eurodance thing.
[52:54.040 -> 52:55.120] No one was referencing.
[52:55.120 -> 53:02.520] I think my references for that was A-Kon and like, um, like, and then a period of
[53:02.520 -> 53:09.920] music, which sometimes, you know, dance, know dance Chin strokers look down on G. I'm saying like the 90s Eurodance era and it was the
[53:10.800 -> 53:17.540] Second biggest song on radio last year, you know just behind Harry Styles. I do love that song as it was great record
[53:19.560 -> 53:22.640] You know and so it was a real moment for me because I was like, you know
[53:22.640 -> 53:25.920] I can do my thing and it can be successful.
[53:25.920 -> 53:27.980] How far can I go with that?
[53:27.980 -> 53:30.240] But also now being a dad,
[53:31.520 -> 53:32.920] when I held my daughter in my arms,
[53:32.920 -> 53:35.720] it was the first time that I was living outside of myself.
[53:35.720 -> 53:37.680] I was like, wow, there's someone here
[53:37.680 -> 53:41.280] that I have to give more than I'm getting.
[53:41.280 -> 53:47.680] And it's like a selfless act as I can do you I'm saying yeah and that has
[53:47.680 -> 53:51.320] been really liberating for me because it was the first thing that I'm not serving
[53:51.320 -> 53:58.120] myself so for me I guess I'll just do more dad and try and you know and
[53:58.120 -> 54:00.960] probably perhaps say do you know what yeah it's cool man I'm I'm not as
[54:00.960 -> 54:04.800] successful as I used to be do you I'm saying we're we're gonna move on to
[54:04.800 -> 54:07.280] quickfire questions in a must, but before we do,
[54:07.280 -> 54:12.000] when you are making music, I'm so interested in the instinct that comes with that, but not just
[54:12.000 -> 54:16.400] your instinct, the people in the room around you. How do you choose who gets to sit in a room with
[54:16.400 -> 54:23.360] you and pass judgment over an unfinished Jax Jones tune? That's such an interesting question,
[54:23.360 -> 54:29.680] I like that. I have actually some firm rules about this. Because you have to be careful. I don't play anyone anything. Is that right?
[54:29.680 -> 54:36.400] And if I do it's the same people. I actually also do not pass comment on
[54:36.400 -> 54:42.560] people's music because I don't have all the answers. I might not understand where
[54:42.560 -> 54:48.320] you are. But isn't it important also to take criticism, feedback, to feel.
[54:48.320 -> 54:49.320] Feel.
[54:49.320 -> 54:51.320] Like that's where you can grow, right? You know?
[54:51.320 -> 54:53.320] You've got to be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
[54:53.320 -> 54:54.320] Absolutely.
[54:54.320 -> 55:01.440] It's funny, feedback can be interesting. If I do play something to someone and it's finished,
[55:01.440 -> 55:11.680] I consider it finished, or close to finishing. Like at that point where you know, where we're fighting for 2% we're talking about margins here.
[55:11.680 -> 55:15.440] I like to share it with people that don't have anything to do with the music industry
[55:15.440 -> 55:19.600] and just live a normal life. Sometimes they'll go, what do you want me to say?
[55:20.320 -> 55:25.840] Just listen to it. And I watch your, I use, I read your body language and I just like watching your face and
[55:27.000 -> 55:29.000] watching how it makes you feel and
[55:29.600 -> 55:31.600] I can tell if you had been genuine
[55:32.320 -> 55:33.640] you know and
[55:33.640 -> 55:37.780] The I like to play to those kind of people and then I know if I've got one
[55:38.360 -> 55:43.840] It's great. So what's been the experience when you know that you've got one then it's the greatest feeling in the world
[55:43.560 -> 55:48.960] experience when you know that you've got one then? It's the greatest feeling in the world. Right quick fire questions are you ready for them? Let's go. What are
[55:48.960 -> 55:53.360] your three non-negotiables that you and the people around you need to buy into?
[55:53.360 -> 55:59.680] I'm always developing myself, growth mindset, do what you say you're gonna do.
[55:59.680 -> 56:06.240] I hate it when people just are flaky br, because it sends my, I'm up the wall,
[56:06.240 -> 56:08.200] my back's up when that happens.
[56:08.200 -> 56:10.760] And look after your body,
[56:10.760 -> 56:13.080] because then that fuels everything else.
[56:13.080 -> 56:15.840] What's your greatest strength and your biggest weakness?
[56:15.840 -> 56:19.720] My greatest strength is my unlimited energy
[56:19.720 -> 56:20.740] to chase my goal.
[56:21.820 -> 56:23.680] And that's also my greatest weakness.
[56:24.760 -> 56:27.680] Where were you? Where are you
[56:27.680 -> 56:39.520] today? Where are you going? Right now a dad, a music maker and trying to be
[56:39.520 -> 56:48.240] better at both of those things and then in the future I'm trying to be one of the greats.
[56:48.240 -> 56:54.480] Say it! Yeah come on! I'll give you a moment where you thought, do I say it?
[56:54.480 -> 56:59.360] Five, ten years time, where would you, if you, when you close your eyes and think
[56:59.360 -> 57:09.780] what do you think, what do you see? I imagine being at peace with my family around me, loads of massive
[57:09.780 -> 57:17.800] hit records and we just taking a walk man. I love that. You've had the success but you're
[57:17.800 -> 57:27.600] in the right place. What's the biggest misconception or thing that people get wrong about you? I've got everything under control.
[57:27.600 -> 57:32.240] What's your final message to people listening to this about chasing their
[57:32.240 -> 57:36.120] own version of high performance? You know, for someone who has had such incredible
[57:36.120 -> 57:40.280] success, for someone who has such optimism about the fact that the best day is yet to
[57:40.280 -> 57:44.960] come, but also has been standing alongside those people who come to this
[57:44.960 -> 57:48.240] podcast because they're currently in the midst of the struggle that you've been
[57:48.240 -> 57:51.920] in. What is your final message to people? What would you like to leave ringing in
[57:51.920 -> 57:58.760] their ears? Do what you need to do to make your life what you want it to be.
[57:58.760 -> 58:04.480] Doesn't matter what anyone says, doesn't matter what happened to you, if I can do
[58:04.480 -> 58:06.720] it, you can. You already
[58:06.720 -> 58:08.360] have it in you, just go.
[58:08.360 -> 58:12.120] Listen, can I just say thank you so much for coming on here and choosing this platform
[58:12.120 -> 58:17.800] to share so much with us. And part of me has this kind of feeling like I wish you'd gone
[58:17.800 -> 58:21.920] and done this work so many years ago because you could have been free for so long. But
[58:21.920 -> 58:28.000] then I also at the same time, I think things happen at the right time for people, right? If they just, as you say,
[58:28.000 -> 58:31.120] you trust in the process and allow yourself to grow and develop. And this was
[58:31.120 -> 58:37.440] obviously the right time for growth to happen for you. You know, a guy to take
[58:37.440 -> 58:42.560] all that trauma from his childhood and a global pandemic, combine the two to
[58:42.560 -> 58:45.000] manage to create a positive outcome it's like you must
[58:45.000 -> 58:49.820] almost feel bulletproof from what else the world can throw at you because you
[58:49.820 -> 58:53.680] know to see that growth is humbling man and I really appreciate it. I appreciate it,
[58:53.680 -> 58:57.640] that means a lot coming from you guys man. Thank you so much. I'm excited for what's to come next.
[58:57.640 -> 59:02.880] Let's go man! Great, amazing, thank you.
[59:02.000 -> 59:04.920] amazing, thank you.
[59:09.920 -> 59:15.480] Damien. Jake. How often are we gonna sit here and say that was fascinating? It's like it's a reminder that everyone has a story to share and in in the case of Tim
[59:15.600 -> 59:19.200] it takes real bravery to get to a point in your life where you're happy to share that story.
[59:19.200 -> 59:22.060] Yeah, I found it again a common phrase
[59:22.060 -> 59:26.200] we often use in this bit of the
[59:24.200 -> 59:28.640] review is how humbling it is that
[59:26.200 -> 59:30.480] somebody's prepared to make themselves so
[59:28.640 -> 59:33.200] vulnerable to come and share their
[59:30.480 -> 59:35.920] story with us and by definition with
[59:33.200 -> 59:37.440] anybody that's listening to this. There's
[59:35.920 -> 59:39.400] a lot of research isn't there into
[59:37.440 -> 59:40.720] trauma leading to triumph it's
[59:39.400 -> 59:42.240] something that you know whether it was
[59:40.720 -> 59:44.200] people being persecuted during the
[59:42.240 -> 59:45.880] Second World War or guests who joined
[59:44.200 -> 59:46.120] us on the High Performance podcast, you know, there's
[59:46.120 -> 59:50.160] there's a lot of research into the fact that really, really traumatic, difficult,
[59:50.160 -> 59:55.040] hard periods can still lead to people finding fulfillment and happiness in the
[59:55.040 -> 59:59.040] future. Yeah, it's referred to as post-traumatic growth. I think we're
[59:59.040 -> 01:00:02.880] really familiar with post-traumatic stress, the idea of being stuck in a
[01:00:02.880 -> 01:00:07.000] moment and and it causing us damage or struggle,es post-traumatig, y syniad o fod yn cael ei gosod yn ystod, ac mae'n cael ei gosod yn rhaid i ni gael damau neu'n anodd.
[01:00:07.000 -> 01:00:11.000] Ond mae'r gwybodaeth o'r gweithio'n post-traumatig yn unig fel y cwrwg sy'n gwybod ychydig yn fwy fwy
[01:00:11.000 -> 01:00:15.000] a dweud, pan gallwch chi wneud syniad o'r profiadau hynny, gallwch chi gofyn y cwestiwn,
[01:00:15.000 -> 01:00:18.000] wel, beth fydd hyn yn mynd i'w wneud i mi yn y dyfodol?
[01:00:18.000 -> 01:00:21.000] Ac gallwch chi'i ddefnyddio fel catalyst, fel yr oedd Tim wedi'i ddysgu,
[01:00:21.000 -> 01:00:23.000] yn fawr iawn i'w wneud hynny.
[01:00:23.000 -> 01:00:26.240] Ond rwy'n credu y peth pwysig yw'r hyn a oedd yn ei ddysgu yno. Un o'n gwestiwnau cynhyrchu, os oes pobl yn dd iawn i wneud hynny, ond rwy'n credu y pwysig yw'r hyn y mae'n ei ddysgrifio yno. Un o'n
[01:00:26.240 -> 01:00:29.560] gwestiynau cynhaethol, os ydy pobl yn ddiddorol o fynd yn ôl a ddysgrifio'r archif,
[01:00:29.560 -> 01:00:36.840] oedd Dr Pippa Grange, sy'n siarad am byw bywydau'n ddiddorol, ac un o'r technegau
[01:00:36.840 -> 01:00:42.560] y sgwrsodd yno oedd i weld, i'w gweld a'i gael yn ymdrech. Ac rwy'n credu yr hyn y mae Tim yn ei ddysgrifio
[01:00:42.560 -> 01:00:45.400] oedd yr hyn y mae Pippa yn ymdrech arnynt i gallu gweld y llun ar eich replace. And I think what Tim described
[01:00:42.460 -> 01:00:47.420] is what Pippa advocates of, to be
[01:00:45.400 -> 01:00:49.960] able to see that shadow on your
[01:00:47.420 -> 01:00:52.660] shoulder and rather than just run from
[01:00:49.960 -> 01:00:55.240] it in the fear of that critical voice
[01:00:52.660 -> 01:00:57.880] that he described, to stop and face it
[01:00:55.240 -> 01:01:00.160] and to recognize who is this, what's it
[01:00:57.880 -> 01:01:03.120] telling me, has allowed him to replace
[01:01:00.160 -> 01:01:05.520] the shadow with the lightness that has
[01:01:03.120 -> 01:01:06.400] used it as a catalyst to go on and grow. the shadow with the lightness that has
[01:01:03.080 -> 01:01:08.400] used it as a catalyst to go on and grow.
[01:01:06.400 -> 01:01:11.800] And I think it's easy for people who either
[01:01:08.400 -> 01:01:13.440] haven't had that trauma or people who
[01:01:11.800 -> 01:01:15.720] haven't lived a life like Tim's to say
[01:01:13.440 -> 01:01:17.400] well does it really matter? Does it
[01:01:15.720 -> 01:01:18.720] really matter that he's managed to find
[01:01:17.400 -> 01:01:20.160] the joy in this because he was already
[01:01:18.720 -> 01:01:21.400] living a great life, he already had
[01:01:20.160 -> 01:01:22.920] kids, he already had a successful music
[01:01:21.400 -> 01:01:24.960] career, you know, what more does he
[01:01:22.920 -> 01:01:26.760] want? But when he says that he got to
[01:01:24.960 -> 01:01:28.680] the, you know, the pandemic and the world shut down, and
[01:01:28.680 -> 01:01:33.040] for many, many people, that was the first time that they were forced to look inward.
[01:01:33.040 -> 01:01:36.900] Yeah. And to not fill their lives with all of the things that effectively distract them
[01:01:36.900 -> 01:01:41.600] from the truth, right? The first time he had to look at himself, he lost his love for music,
[01:01:41.600 -> 01:01:45.480] he lost his joy, he like his exact words. I was mad depressed. Yep
[01:01:46.060 -> 01:01:47.600] for people that are
[01:01:47.600 -> 01:01:50.800] Skeptical about does it matter overcoming that trauma from the past?
[01:01:50.900 -> 01:01:54.940] Well, there's your answer because he now talks about deep joy. He now talks about freedom
[01:01:54.940 -> 01:01:58.240] He now talks about the best is yet to come and he's excited about his future
[01:01:59.000 -> 01:02:01.000] Before we've done this work on himself
[01:02:01.000 -> 01:02:08.720] He was still the guy that created Jax Jones and sold tens of millions of records, but the joy had gone. And that was nothing to do
[01:02:08.720 -> 01:02:12.560] with not loving music anymore, not loving his partner or his newborn child or his
[01:02:12.560 -> 01:02:18.120] life. It was because of the shadows that he discusses being behind him.
[01:02:18.120 -> 01:02:22.960] Toby Yeah and again, this is such a common thread and therefore if it's common
[01:02:22.960 -> 01:02:25.960] enough we need
[01:02:23.600 -> 01:02:28.160] to explore it in more detail. Do you remember when
[01:02:25.960 -> 01:02:30.720] Max Whitlock came and spoke to us around,
[01:02:28.160 -> 01:02:32.560] he had a similar experience to what
[01:02:30.720 -> 01:02:35.200] Tim's described of you've won
[01:02:32.560 -> 01:02:37.680] multiple gold medals and yet going for
[01:02:35.200 -> 01:02:40.840] the Paris Olympics filled him with just
[01:02:37.680 -> 01:02:42.800] apathy and inertia rather than the
[01:02:40.840 -> 01:02:45.280] pleasure of going and doing something
[01:02:42.800 -> 01:02:47.480] that you really love, similar
[01:02:43.960 -> 01:02:49.960] to Tim's loss of music making and the joy
[01:02:47.480 -> 01:02:51.560] that it gave him. So I think there's
[01:02:49.960 -> 01:02:53.400] enough of a pattern that we see through
[01:02:51.560 -> 01:02:56.120] so many of our guests that we need to go
[01:02:53.400 -> 01:02:58.680] and explore these areas of what brings
[01:02:56.120 -> 01:03:00.520] us joy, what makes us happy and see the
[01:02:58.680 -> 01:03:03.000] composite parts of it in our lives and
[01:03:00.520 -> 01:03:05.080] make sure that you use that lovely phrase
[01:03:03.000 -> 01:03:09.920] about I've designed my life to bring me more of these moments. And I think the idea of not just filling it with busyness
[01:03:09.920 -> 01:03:17.120] and activity, but meaningful activity is the key element of what I've taken from Tim's
[01:03:17.120 -> 01:03:18.120] message.
[01:03:18.120 -> 01:03:21.160] Toby I love that. Mate, it was a pleasure to sit alongside you again.
[01:03:21.160 -> 01:03:23.040] Tim The honour's mine. Thank you.
[01:03:23.040 -> 01:03:25.760] Toby And that's the end of today's episode. As
[01:03:25.760 -> 01:03:30.840] always, a huge thanks goes to you for growing and sharing this podcast among your community.
[01:03:30.840 -> 01:03:34.480] Huge thanks to Tim Mitchener for coming on this podcast and telling us the truth about
[01:03:34.480 -> 01:03:39.480] his life. As you heard, hugely moving, so much to take away from that. If you want to
[01:03:39.480 -> 01:03:44.040] watch as well as just listen to this conversation, you can do so by checking out High Performance
[01:03:44.040 -> 01:03:45.120] on YouTube.
[01:03:45.120 -> 01:03:49.680] And listen, we only want one thing, just one thing from you in return for the content that
[01:03:49.680 -> 01:03:54.400] we're creating, and that's for you to share it. Please remember there is no secret guys,
[01:03:54.400 -> 01:04:05.840] it is all Thanks for listening.
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