E190 - Lord Bilimoria: Adversity into opportunity - Building a global beer empire with Cobra

Lord Bilimoria is a businessman and life peer in the House of Lords. Founding Cobra Beer in 1989, in this interview Lord Bilimoria distils decades of business experience into valuable lessons. After attending university at 16, Lord Bilimora came to the UK on a scholarship at 18. It was then he identified a space in the market for Cobra Beer, inspired by his youth in India.

In this episode, they discuss how being creative and an innovation is crucial for an entrepreneur and how to cultivate these skills. He offers the tips he uses to problem solve, how to pursue optimism and how his motto, “problem, solution, action”, plays into his everyday life. He shares with Jake and Damian his failures, successes and how he has learnt to identify when to give up and when to push through.

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**Navigating the Path to High Performance with Lord Bilimoria**

In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, hosts Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes engage in a captivating conversation with Lord Karan Bilimoria, a prominent businessman and life peer in the House of Lords. Lord Bilimoria, renowned for founding Cobra Beer in 1989, shares valuable lessons and insights gained from decades of business experience.

**Entrepreneurship and the Importance of Creativity and Innovation**

Lord Bilimoria emphasizes the crucial role of creativity and innovation for entrepreneurs. He highlights how his initial perception of lacking creativity was transformed when he embarked on his entrepreneurial journey, recognizing the immense value of these skills. He stresses the need to cultivate creativity and innovation as essential qualities for success in business.

**The Problem-Solution-Action Approach**

Lord Bilimoria introduces his problem-solution-action methodology, which has guided his decision-making throughout his career. He emphasizes the importance of identifying problems, devising solutions, and promptly taking action to address challenges. This approach has proven instrumental in his success, including his tenure as president of the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) during the COVID-19 pandemic and the Ukraine war.

**Tips for Effective Problem-Solving**

Lord Bilimoria shares practical tips for effective problem-solving. He illustrates how his dissatisfaction with the available beer options in the UK led him to conceive the idea for Cobra Beer. He highlights the significance of experimentation, stepping away from the problem to gain fresh perspectives, and embracing serendipity as opportunities arise.

**The Role of Optimism and Knowing When to Give Up**

Lord Bilimoria discusses the importance of optimism in entrepreneurship. He acknowledges that successful entrepreneurs tend to be optimistic but also emphasizes the need for realism and the ability to recognize when it's time to abandon a venture. He stresses the importance of perseverance while acknowledging the wisdom of knowing when to cut losses and move on.

**Additional Key Insights**

* **The Power of Determination:** Lord Bilimoria emphasizes the significance of determination in seizing opportunities. He believes that determination is the key to recognizing and capitalizing on opportunities that may otherwise pass unnoticed.

* **The Value of Adaptability:** Lord Bilimoria reflects on his upbringing in India and the frequent relocations his family underwent. He attributes his adaptability and flexibility to these experiences, which taught him to embrace new environments and make friends easily.

* **The Importance of Education:** Lord Bilimoria highlights the value of education in his life. He attended university at the age of 16 and later pursued further studies in the UK. He credits his academic background for providing him with the knowledge and skills necessary for success in business.

**Conclusion**

Lord Bilimoria's journey is a testament to the power of creativity, innovation, and resilience. His problem-solution-action approach and emphasis on optimism serve as valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and business leaders. His insights into the importance of adaptability, education, and knowing when to give up provide a comprehensive framework for achieving high performance in all aspects of life.

## Summary of the Podcast Episode: Lord Bilimoria on Creativity, Innovation, and Entrepreneurship

### Introduction:

- Lord Bilimoria is a successful businessman and life peer in the House of Lords.
- He shares his insights on creativity, innovation, and entrepreneurship, drawing from decades of experience.

### Key Points:

#### 1. The Importance of Creativity and Innovation:

- Entrepreneurs must be creative and innovative to succeed.
- Cultivating these skills is crucial for problem-solving and finding new opportunities.

#### 2. Problem-Solving Techniques:

- Lord Bilimoria emphasizes the "problem, solution, action" approach to problem-solving.
- He encourages entrepreneurs to turn obstacles into opportunities.

#### 3. Maintaining Optimism:

- Entrepreneurs should remain optimistic and believe in their ideas.
- Perseverance is essential in overcoming challenges.

#### 4. Identifying When to Quit:

- Lord Bilimoria advises entrepreneurs to recognize when an idea is not viable and to have the courage to give up.

#### 5. Resilience in Business:

- He shares his experiences of overcoming business crises, including financial difficulties and boycotts.
- Resilience and integrity are vital for navigating tough times.

#### 6. Attitude and Willpower:

- Lord Bilimoria emphasizes the importance of attitude and willpower in entrepreneurship.
- He seeks individuals with the right attitude and willingness to work in a team.

#### 7. Non-Negotiable Behaviors:

- Integrity, attitude, and teamwork are non-negotiable behaviors for Lord Bilimoria.

#### 8. Strengths and Weaknesses:

- He acknowledges his weakness of taking on too much, but values his creativity, leadership, and multitasking abilities.

#### 9. Motto for Success:

- Lord Bilimoria's motto is "aspire and achieve against all odds with integrity."

#### 10. Misconceptions about Him:

- He clarifies that despite his privileged background, he faced financial challenges and worked hard to build his business.

#### 11. Advice for Young Entrepreneurs:

- He encourages young people to be curious, believe in themselves, and follow their passions.
- He emphasizes the importance of learning continuously and applying the "10 Ps of Business" for success.

### Conclusion:

- Lord Bilimoria's insights provide valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and aspiring business leaders.
- His emphasis on creativity, resilience, and integrity resonates with the challenges and opportunities of modern entrepreneurship.

# Lord Bilimoria: Innovation, Problem-Solving, and the Power of Optimism

In this podcast episode, Lord Bilimoria, a renowned businessman and life peer in the House of Lords, shares his decades of experience and valuable lessons learned in the world of entrepreneurship and innovation.

## Embracing Creativity and Innovation:
Lord Bilimoria emphasizes the significance of creativity and innovation for entrepreneurs. He believes that these qualities are crucial for identifying market gaps and developing unique solutions. His journey with Cobra Beer serves as an example of how he recognized an opportunity in the UK market for an authentic Indian beer.

## Cultivating Problem-Solving Skills:
Lord Bilimoria shares his approach to problem-solving, highlighting the importance of identifying the root cause of an issue rather than just treating its symptoms. He stresses the need for a systematic approach, where problems are broken down into smaller, manageable steps, and solutions are developed through brainstorming and collaboration.

## Maintaining an Optimistic Mindset:
Lord Bilimoria emphasizes the power of optimism in overcoming challenges and achieving success. He believes that entrepreneurs should focus on the opportunities and possibilities rather than dwelling on obstacles. His motto, "problem, solution, action," reflects his belief in taking proactive steps to address challenges and move forward.

## Recognizing When to Give Up and When to Persevere:
Lord Bilimoria discusses the importance of knowing when to give up on a venture and when to persevere. He highlights the significance of analyzing the situation objectively, considering factors such as market conditions, competition, and available resources. He stresses the importance of making informed decisions based on data and insights rather than emotional attachment.

## Key Insights and Takeaways:
- Creativity and innovation are essential qualities for entrepreneurs to identify opportunities and develop unique solutions.
- Problem-solving skills are crucial for tackling challenges systematically and effectively.
- Maintaining an optimistic mindset helps entrepreneurs overcome obstacles and achieve success.
- Knowing when to give up and when to persevere is a critical skill for entrepreneurs to make informed decisions.
- Lord Bilimoria's journey and experiences offer valuable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and business leaders.

[00:00.000 -> 00:05.880] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance. Before we go any further,
[00:05.880 -> 00:11.240] if you're in the UK listening to this podcast, please check out the highperformancepodcast.com
[00:11.240 -> 00:15.000] because we're currently on a UK tour. Thank you to the thousands of people that have already
[00:15.000 -> 00:19.120] been to watch us and cheer us on. It's been amazing sharing the lessons and learnings
[00:19.120 -> 00:23.080] from this podcast with you. We've still got a bunch of dates coming up over the next few
[00:23.080 -> 00:30.200] months. If you want to join us, head to our website, thehighperformancepodcast.com. But let's get on with it then. This is the
[00:30.200 -> 00:35.040] award-winning podcast that reminds you that it's within. As always, hello to all of our
[00:35.040 -> 00:39.920] listeners around the world who tune into us every week, knowing that we are your armour.
[00:39.920 -> 00:47.000] We're your partner. We're your guide in a world that often feels so negative, so divisive, and so confused.
[00:47.000 -> 00:49.160] We really hope these conversations remind you
[00:49.160 -> 00:51.600] of your power, of your potential,
[00:51.600 -> 00:54.120] of what all of us are capable of.
[00:54.120 -> 00:57.400] So right now, I allow myself and Professor Damian Hughes
[00:57.400 -> 01:00.240] to unlock the mind of one of the most fascinating
[01:00.240 -> 01:03.240] business people to ever appear on the podcast.
[01:03.240 -> 01:04.380] Here's what's in store.
[01:05.000 -> 01:12.000] Luck is when determination meets opportunity. If you're not determined you won't even see the opportunity.
[01:12.000 -> 01:16.000] It's like waves that are going past you in life. It's how I visualize it.
[01:16.000 -> 01:19.000] If you're determined you might just catch one of those waves.
[01:19.000 -> 01:22.000] Otherwise the waves will just keep going past you all your life.
[01:22.000 -> 01:26.720] When I recruit people I'm looking for will rather than skill.
[01:26.720 -> 01:28.800] I mean, ideally both, but the will is more important.
[01:28.800 -> 01:31.320] Does the person have that right attitude?
[01:31.320 -> 01:33.040] And attitude is everything.
[01:33.040 -> 01:36.320] It's always a question of turning that no into a yes,
[01:36.320 -> 01:37.920] an obstacle into an opportunity.
[01:39.760 -> 01:41.480] In India, people don't order one bottle for you,
[01:41.480 -> 01:42.320] one bottle for me.
[01:42.320 -> 01:43.640] They order a big bottle, two glasses,
[01:43.640 -> 01:44.840] and they share the beer.
[01:44.840 -> 01:45.080] People share Indian food. So put it on, two glasses, and they share the beer.
[01:45.080 -> 01:46.520] People share Indian food.
[01:46.520 -> 01:50.200] So put it on the tables and people will share the big bottles in the way they share the
[01:50.200 -> 01:51.200] food.
[01:51.200 -> 01:55.680] You'll find out they'll actually consume more of the beer and you will sell more beer.
[01:55.680 -> 01:59.040] Your waiters can leave the bottles so that frees them up to do other work.
[01:59.040 -> 02:00.520] People at other tables will say, what are they drinking?
[02:00.520 -> 02:01.520] It looks like a bottle of wine.
[02:01.520 -> 02:03.160] No, no, it's not a bottle of wine, it's a bottle of beer.
[02:03.160 -> 02:05.600] Let me try it and it spreads like wildfire. And now, if you look
[02:05.600 -> 02:10.360] at the supermarket shelves, every major beer brand does big bottles and we were the first
[02:10.360 -> 02:14.320] ones. So today we welcome to High Performance Lord
[02:14.320 -> 02:20.000] Billimoria and this is a fascinating conversation. Lord Billimoria has a motto that I think we
[02:20.000 -> 02:27.200] should start this podcast with. His motto is Aspira et Confis, which stands for aspire
[02:27.200 -> 02:34.800] and accomplish. And aspiring is exactly what this person did. He founded Cobra Beer and
[02:34.800 -> 02:40.100] the story of how he did it and what he went through and why it happened and everything
[02:40.100 -> 02:44.140] around it is so interesting. You're going to hear it over the next little while. He's
[02:44.140 -> 02:48.720] also accomplished. He's done incredible things in his life, not only did he grow Cobra
[02:48.720 -> 02:54.080] to be this huge business, he's done so many fascinating things, and you're going to hear
[02:54.080 -> 02:59.200] in his words what he's done over his more than 60 years on the earth. And I think the
[02:59.200 -> 03:03.280] fact that Lord Bill and Maudita is in his 60s brings a real value to this podcast. You
[03:03.280 -> 03:08.920] know, he's someone who has seen it, experienced it, dealt with it, whether it's risk, whether it's failure, whether it's
[03:08.920 -> 03:14.800] opportunity, whether it's doubt, he's been there. He's drunk the drink, so to speak,
[03:14.800 -> 03:18.720] certainly when it comes to Cobra. And I think that there is real value in that for you.
[03:18.720 -> 03:23.120] He's a parent of four children. That also brings a real value. And I really hope that
[03:23.120 -> 03:28.000] you enjoyed this conversation with someone who absolutely was a trailblazer.
[03:28.000 -> 03:34.000] So here we go then, time for the latest episode, time to get you closer to your own version of high performance.
[03:34.000 -> 03:42.000] As we welcome Karan Faradun Billimoria, Baron Billimoria, to the High Performance Podcast.
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[05:57.880 -> 06:03.840] Aaron, thank you very much for joining us, first of all.
[06:03.840 -> 06:05.760] Please share with us us what is your definition
[06:05.760 -> 06:08.120] of high performance?
[06:08.120 -> 06:20.440] It's performing at a level that is exceptional, that exceeds the norm, that exceeds expectations,
[06:20.440 -> 06:25.400] that raises the bar, and that should be inspirational as well.
[06:25.400 -> 06:33.800] And it is inspirational, you know lots of people listen to this podcast because all the things you just mentioned is what they want to be and how they want to operate.
[06:34.400 -> 06:43.000] A lot of them also struggle to get there, so what would you share with us that you've learned over your life that allows you to get to that place of high performance.
[06:42.800 -> 06:43.520] that allows you to get to that place of high performance?
[06:45.760 -> 06:46.680] from a very early age I
[06:51.240 -> 06:52.480] always wanted to do well at academics at school I
[06:56.680 -> 06:57.400] was brought up in India and my father was an army officer and was
[07:00.360 -> 07:01.360] posted to different places every two or three years, so I
[07:06.660 -> 07:12.940] Moved around a lot and that had a big effect I think looking back on it where you'd go as a complete stranger to a strange place and you'd have to make friends, get to know
[07:12.940 -> 07:13.940] the place.
[07:13.940 -> 07:17.900] And I learned from my parents very early on, they said, you know, people say, oh, you're
[07:17.900 -> 07:22.220] being posted to this godforsaken place, it'll be boring, it'll be dreadful.
[07:22.220 -> 07:26.560] And my parents said, wherever you go, you will always find interesting people and you
[07:26.560 -> 07:30.800] will always find something of interest in that place that will be special.
[07:30.800 -> 07:35.280] And looking back on it, every single place my father was posted to was really special.
[07:35.280 -> 07:39.960] And all over India, and India is the most diverse country in the world in every way,
[07:39.960 -> 07:46.740] whether it's in terrain, in religion, in races, in religions, in languages, and everywhere India is the most diverse country.
[07:46.740 -> 07:50.660] And I've been lucky from my childhood onwards
[07:50.660 -> 07:53.220] to have experienced the diversity of India
[07:53.220 -> 07:54.660] and to have appreciated it.
[07:54.660 -> 07:57.500] You learn to be very adaptable and flexible.
[07:57.500 -> 07:59.620] I went to seven different schools
[07:59.620 -> 08:03.180] and ended up at boarding school in a school in South India,
[08:03.180 -> 08:09.800] a British boarding school, an international boarding school, which over 100 years old and to this day there's a British headmaster
[08:09.800 -> 08:14.160] there and many of the teachers are expats, a lot from the UK and other countries, the
[08:14.160 -> 08:18.880] Commonwealth, my classmates were from all over the world and it was great.
[08:18.880 -> 08:29.120] So I went to university in India and then I came here to the UK to study. And again, that expectation that I would come to the UK to study and therefore I had to do well.
[08:29.760 -> 08:33.600] Because from my earliest memories, both your grandfathers studied in the UK,
[08:33.600 -> 08:37.120] my mother studied in the UK, one day you will study in the UK as well.
[08:37.120 -> 08:39.280] But to do that, you've got to do well at your studies.
[08:39.280 -> 08:42.080] And it was just ingrained in me to just do well.
[08:42.080 -> 08:47.120] But the one thing that later on I learned, I tried art
[08:47.120 -> 08:51.760] and I was hopeless at it. And I was told, therefore, you're not creative. And I learned
[08:51.760 -> 08:57.240] the piano, I was forced to learn the piano. I'm glad I did. And I passed grade one. And
[08:57.240 -> 09:01.500] then I was told, please, you know, give up, spare us, you're tone deaf. So I was written
[09:01.500 -> 09:05.900] off as being not creative, told I was not creative, and it's always through
[09:05.900 -> 09:09.180] my youth and my studies, that's what I believed.
[09:09.180 -> 09:12.700] I believed I was academically good but creatively useless.
[09:12.700 -> 09:15.780] And it's only when I started my business and became an entrepreneur, I realized that I'm
[09:15.780 -> 09:18.940] very, very creative and it had been suppressed throughout my youth.
[09:18.940 -> 09:23.960] And I think that is one of the most important skills in life as an entrepreneur, whatever
[09:23.960 -> 09:25.120] you do in life is the ability to
[09:25.120 -> 09:26.940] be creative and innovative.
[09:26.940 -> 09:33.920] And that sets you apart and enables you to excel and perform in a high level if you have
[09:33.920 -> 09:39.600] that creative innovative mindset, which was in me but had been suppressed and unleashed
[09:39.600 -> 09:41.080] when I started Go Probeer.
[09:41.080 -> 09:45.320] Toby I'm surprised that you say that you weren't recognized
[09:45.320 -> 09:49.400] as being creative because I've read a little bit of your story where you tell
[09:49.400 -> 09:54.200] that, so you tell that great anecdote at eight years of age where you came up
[09:54.200 -> 09:59.480] with a really creative way of learning Hindi. Yeah I mean that is also
[09:59.480 -> 10:05.880] there's got to be a rebellious streak in you where you don't accept the norm, where you don't accept a
[10:05.880 -> 10:09.560] no and you are always trying to find a way.
[10:09.560 -> 10:14.920] And I think what you're talking about is when my father was posted to Trivandrum in Kerala,
[10:14.920 -> 10:19.600] right at the tip of India, he's commanding his battalion of Gurkhas and I went to the
[10:19.600 -> 10:26.320] best school, to this day it is the best school in the state called Loyola school, a Jesuit school.
[10:26.320 -> 10:32.560] And the headmaster, the Jesuit priests would be in their robes and very strict.
[10:32.560 -> 10:37.040] I was caned at the age of eight for taking comic books to school.
[10:37.040 -> 10:42.520] And then they suddenly had a diktat that everyone in the school, it was an English medium school,
[10:42.520 -> 10:46.460] everyone in the school would have to learn Malayalam, the local language of the state of Kerala
[10:46.460 -> 10:47.860] as a second language.
[10:47.860 -> 10:50.620] And when I was told this, I said,
[10:50.620 -> 10:51.700] I don't want to learn Malayalam.
[10:51.700 -> 10:53.620] My father's gonna be posted out of here in two years.
[10:53.620 -> 10:55.420] It's gonna be of no use to me for the rest of my life.
[10:55.420 -> 10:57.340] Why should I waste my time learning Malayalam?
[10:57.340 -> 10:58.860] And this is an eight year old.
[10:58.860 -> 11:00.540] So I told my teacher this, she said,
[11:00.540 -> 11:02.780] you do what you're told, you'll get caned again.
[11:02.780 -> 11:04.380] I went and told my parents, they said,
[11:04.380 -> 11:07.360] you do what you're told, you'll get caned again. I went and told my parents they said you do what you're told you'll get caned again. I went back into the
[11:07.360 -> 11:11.540] class and I went to the Smalayalam class I said this is ridiculous I mean it's a
[11:11.540 -> 11:14.260] different script it's a different language it's only unique to the state
[11:14.260 -> 11:18.220] it's of no use anywhere else in India let alone in the world I don't
[11:18.220 -> 11:22.300] disrespect it as a language but it's no use to me and I thought I could keep on
[11:22.300 -> 11:26.520] complaining like this not gonna get me anywhere what about a solution and I said what about Hindi now I know I could keep on complaining like this, it's not going to get me anywhere. What about a solution?
[11:26.520 -> 11:27.800] And I said, what about Hindi?
[11:27.800 -> 11:29.520] Now I know I'm going to have to learn Hindi.
[11:29.520 -> 11:33.300] Hindi is a national language of India, and I will have to in senior school learn Hindi
[11:33.300 -> 11:34.640] as a second language.
[11:34.640 -> 11:36.600] Why can't I start learning Hindi now?
[11:36.600 -> 11:37.600] So I asked my parents this.
[11:37.600 -> 11:39.040] I said, why can't I start learning Hindi?
[11:39.040 -> 11:42.640] Well, they don't have a Hindi teacher, so go and go to your Malayali classes.
[11:42.640 -> 11:45.680] But I planted a seed, and my father went and spoke to the headmaster.
[11:45.680 -> 11:49.280] And I said, and I also said to my parents, there'll be other children who are expats
[11:49.280 -> 11:55.220] from outside this state, business people, army, who are here temporarily, who might
[11:55.220 -> 11:56.440] want to learn Hindi as well.
[11:56.440 -> 11:59.560] So not just me, it could be of use to other people.
[11:59.560 -> 12:01.560] Within a month, a Hindi teacher was hired.
[12:01.560 -> 12:05.880] I can still picture her in that classroom as an eight year old boy.
[12:05.880 -> 12:08.840] And there were 26 of us in that class learning Hindi.
[12:08.840 -> 12:11.920] The lesson there was that you can spot a problem
[12:11.920 -> 12:13.880] and you can complain as much as you want,
[12:13.880 -> 12:15.440] but you've got to come up with a solution
[12:15.440 -> 12:17.400] and then you've got to act on the solution.
[12:17.400 -> 12:21.320] And that sequence of problem, solution, action
[12:21.320 -> 12:22.680] has followed me through my life,
[12:22.680 -> 12:24.520] including creating Cobra Beer,
[12:24.520 -> 12:25.040] including being president of the Confederation British Industry, the biggest business organization in the country. action has followed me through my life, including creating Cobra Beer, including
[12:25.040 -> 12:27.600] being president of the Confederation British Industry, the biggest business
[12:27.600 -> 12:31.720] organization in the country, and the worst crisis since the Second World War,
[12:31.720 -> 12:34.800] when I was the crisis president, as president through the pandemic and then
[12:34.800 -> 12:41.280] the Ukraine war. This whole attitude of problem-solution action is what made me,
[12:41.280 -> 12:47.520] I think, do really well and perform highly as president of the CBI.
[12:47.520 -> 12:53.360] So let's zero in on that middle part of the equation then, the solution bit, because
[12:53.360 -> 12:59.360] you defined it as creativity earlier, but would you tell us a little bit around
[12:59.360 -> 13:02.800] some of the tips, the techniques, the ideas that you use
[13:02.800 -> 13:05.320] to problem solve that our listeners
[13:05.320 -> 13:10.340] could maybe adopt in their world. The best example would be Cobra beer itself. So
[13:10.340 -> 13:14.600] the problem as a student when I came here and the first place I stayed as a
[13:14.600 -> 13:18.560] 19 year old I came on scholarships. I'm a Tata you know the Tata's who own
[13:18.560 -> 13:22.880] Jaguar Land Rover and Tata Steel, one of the biggest conglomerates in the world.
[13:22.880 -> 13:25.960] Well there's one of the most prestigious scholarships.
[13:25.960 -> 13:27.440] And I had to get scholarships to come.
[13:27.440 -> 13:28.400] My father's an army officer.
[13:28.400 -> 13:31.240] He couldn't afford to pay for me to study in the UK.
[13:31.240 -> 13:33.840] I came as a scholar at the age of 19.
[13:33.840 -> 13:35.600] I already had completed one degree.
[13:35.600 -> 13:36.920] I skipped a couple of years.
[13:36.920 -> 13:39.440] I was lucky and graduated in 19.
[13:39.440 -> 13:41.320] I went to university at 16
[13:41.320 -> 13:43.960] and then came here for my further education.
[13:43.960 -> 13:45.920] And I came to qualify as a chartered accountant
[13:45.920 -> 13:48.760] and I did my law degree at Cambridge University.
[13:48.760 -> 13:54.600] And the first year I stayed at the Indian YMCA in London, in Fitzroy Square.
[13:54.600 -> 13:59.920] And I remember still I took my bags, I was given my room, I put my bags in the room and
[13:59.920 -> 14:02.440] across the road was the White Horse Pub.
[14:02.440 -> 14:06.080] And I went straight to the pub and I wanted to try all the famous beers.
[14:06.080 -> 14:08.440] And I was really disappointed with the lagers.
[14:08.440 -> 14:10.640] I mean, we're used to drinking lager beer in India,
[14:10.640 -> 14:13.280] but the lagers in the UK I found were very fizzy and gassy
[14:13.280 -> 14:14.640] and harsh and bland and bloating
[14:14.640 -> 14:16.560] and difficult to drink in the pub.
[14:16.560 -> 14:18.200] And then I miss my Indian food a lot.
[14:18.200 -> 14:19.760] So I couldn't cook when I came.
[14:19.760 -> 14:20.720] I would go to Indian restaurants
[14:20.720 -> 14:23.280] and Indian food was starting to become very popular.
[14:23.280 -> 14:28.680] And of course now we have 12,000 Indian restaurants, curry restaurants in the UK. And I would go to Indian
[14:28.680 -> 14:34.000] restaurants regularly. I'd want to eat spicy food, of course, but I'd want to drink something
[14:34.000 -> 14:37.720] to accompany that. And of course, the most popular drink with Indian food to this day
[14:37.720 -> 14:43.160] is lager beer. But the lager beer I was presented with was too fizzy and gassy and harsh and
[14:43.160 -> 14:45.840] bland and bloating. And I found that it didn't work.
[14:45.840 -> 14:48.080] Because of bloating I couldn't eat as much as I wanted to, I couldn't drink as much as
[14:48.080 -> 14:49.080] I wanted to.
[14:49.080 -> 14:53.680] So an English friend of mine introduced me to real ale, which I love to this day.
[14:53.680 -> 14:59.440] I've enjoyed ale in a pub, smooth and delicious, but I couldn't drink it with food because
[14:59.440 -> 15:00.440] it was too heavy and too bitter.
[15:00.440 -> 15:05.120] And I said, well, ale drinkers hate lagers. Ale drinkers love curry. They
[15:05.120 -> 15:08.800] can't drink their ale with curry. They hate the lagers they're drinking with curry. There's
[15:08.800 -> 15:13.040] got to be a solution to this. And that's when I would experiment. I'd go to a pub and I'd say,
[15:13.040 -> 15:18.480] give me a bottle of this and a bottle of that. And I'd mix the two and I'd try to find something
[15:18.480 -> 15:24.640] that would work, that would give me the refreshment of a lager and the smoothness of an ale combined.
[15:24.640 -> 15:29.700] And that was my idea. My idea was to come up with a beer that would be balanced and rounded and easy to drink,
[15:29.700 -> 15:32.200] but would go very well with food and it didn't exist.
[15:32.200 -> 15:34.800] And that was the genesis of Cobra beer.
[15:34.800 -> 15:38.200] And so there you have a problem, solution, then of course is the action.
[15:38.200 -> 15:45.920] But I love that because it fits with some research that was done by a guy called Mihaly 6, Mihaly. ymchwil sy'n cael ei wneud gan un o'r bobl yn ymwneud â Michaela 6M. Felly mae'r enwau hon yn
[15:45.920 -> 15:50.800] llwyr, ond fe wnaeth ystyried ym 1960au o ran creadigol, lle fe wnaeth e'i wneud gyda
[15:50.800 -> 15:57.440] dylunwyr, ac yw'r dylunwyr a gweld problem ddim yn teimlo'n ddur i ni'n y byd
[15:57.440 -> 16:02.800] dylunwyr, ond y dylunwyr sydd wedi dod i mewn i rhai pethau a edrych ar gysylltiadau,
[16:02.800 -> 16:05.640] dod i mewn i sbectrwm mwy fwy gwych, roedden nhw'n mwy creadigol, ond yn fwy sylweddol, roedden nhw'n something and look for solutions came up with a far broader spectrum. They were
[16:05.640 -> 16:09.720] more creative but more significantly they were more resilient for longer
[16:09.720 -> 16:13.400] careers in the world of arts and what you've just described there is you
[16:13.400 -> 16:17.040] weren't looking at just a problem you were looking at a variety of solutions.
[16:17.040 -> 16:23.040] Yes and the solution doesn't necessarily come to you straight away. It is that you
[16:23.040 -> 16:25.320] really apply yourself and try and come up
[16:25.320 -> 16:31.320] with a solution and then you step away. And that's why some of the best ideas I get when
[16:31.320 -> 16:34.800] I'm shaving or I'm in the shower, because you've been trying, thinking and thinking
[16:34.800 -> 16:38.880] and thinking, and sometimes you've slept over it, and suddenly it falls into place.
[16:38.880 -> 16:43.440] And you need that ability to intensely look at a problem to try and find a solution, but
[16:43.440 -> 16:45.680] also step back from it.
[16:45.680 -> 16:50.720] And there were lots of studies on all this and show how that process also leads to that
[16:50.720 -> 16:54.920] eureka moment. And I did not jump out of a bath naked and run down the streets of Cambridge
[16:54.920 -> 16:59.680] when I finally said, this is the idea I'm going to go for my big idea, Cobra beer.
[16:59.680 -> 17:03.840] I find this fascinating because I know that people listen to this podcast and then they
[17:03.840 -> 17:07.760] say to us, well, I'm not sort of a solutions mindset kind of person.
[17:07.760 -> 17:11.200] I can't, I don't really do solutions.
[17:11.200 -> 17:14.800] It sounds to me like you're saying really there's a, there's an algorithm to this.
[17:14.800 -> 17:17.200] There's a process to this that anybody can learn.
[17:17.200 -> 17:23.720] A, do you believe that anyone can have a mindset of being solution focused, but also how do
[17:23.720 -> 17:27.040] you decide the moment to step away
[17:27.040 -> 17:30.600] when you feel you've got enough of an idea to then leave it and let it go?
[17:30.600 -> 17:32.600] Because that's quite a brave thing to do in some respects.
[17:32.600 -> 17:38.760] Yeah, the reality is when you are so intensely trying to find a solution, you are thinking
[17:38.760 -> 17:40.760] about it all the time.
[17:40.760 -> 17:46.480] And then there are times when you are forced to step away by doing routine things or whatever.
[17:46.480 -> 17:49.600] And that's when it tends to fall into place.
[17:49.600 -> 17:51.600] That's when you get that eureka moment.
[17:51.600 -> 17:53.960] So the trick is to keep persisting
[17:53.960 -> 17:56.720] and not to give up but trying to find the solution,
[17:56.720 -> 17:59.160] but realize it might just fall into place
[17:59.160 -> 18:02.160] when you're not at your desk trying to find the solution.
[18:02.160 -> 18:05.720] And another way of expressing this is luck and serendipity.
[18:05.720 -> 18:07.720] So I've attended three business schools
[18:07.720 -> 18:10.280] and I've probably done the equivalent of two MBAs
[18:10.280 -> 18:11.380] and hundreds of case studies.
[18:11.380 -> 18:13.320] I've never done a case study on luck.
[18:13.320 -> 18:16.000] And luck comes into play all the time.
[18:16.000 -> 18:17.640] And I think the best way to define luck
[18:17.640 -> 18:19.800] is if you define serendipity.
[18:19.800 -> 18:21.680] And I chaired the Cambridge Chartered Business School
[18:21.680 -> 18:24.240] for five years and one of our professors there, Mark Durand,
[18:24.240 -> 18:28.480] defines serendipity as seeing what everyone else sees but thinking
[18:28.480 -> 18:30.480] what no one else has thought.
[18:30.480 -> 18:33.920] And then if you link that to the best definition of luck that I've ever heard, which was in
[18:33.920 -> 18:40.140] the Harvard Business School classroom, luck is when determination meets opportunity.
[18:40.140 -> 18:42.520] If you're not determined, you won't even see the opportunity.
[18:42.520 -> 18:45.600] It's like waves that are going past you in life,
[18:45.600 -> 18:47.080] is how I visualize it.
[18:47.080 -> 18:48.720] If you're determined, you might just catch
[18:48.720 -> 18:49.960] one of those waves.
[18:49.960 -> 18:51.520] Otherwise, the waves will just keep going past you
[18:51.520 -> 18:52.600] all your life.
[18:52.600 -> 18:54.520] And I can give you example after example
[18:54.520 -> 18:57.640] of when that determination meets opportunity works.
[18:57.640 -> 18:59.400] And with Cobra Beer, when the first year,
[18:59.400 -> 19:01.200] when we started in business, my business partner,
[19:01.200 -> 19:03.000] we didn't have the money, we didn't have the experience,
[19:03.000 -> 19:04.960] we thought that was too big a big idea.
[19:04.960 -> 19:07.280] Let's get our experience doing some smaller things,
[19:07.280 -> 19:11.320] importing products from India, selling them, marketing, then we'll get work on the bear
[19:11.320 -> 19:12.320] idea.
[19:12.320 -> 19:17.480] But the bear idea was there and it was just a chance meeting with our mentor, a routine
[19:17.480 -> 19:21.880] meeting with our mentor when we're thinking of importing seafood that we stumbled across
[19:21.880 -> 19:25.720] the biggest independent brewer in India who owned a seafood exporting company and
[19:26.080 -> 19:29.120] You see there it's that seeing what everyone was thinking what no one else thinks
[19:29.840 -> 19:32.000] Determination opportunity forget the seafood
[19:32.000 -> 19:37.480] This is my beer idea and we were ready for the idea and we said would they be interested in exporting beer?
[19:37.480 -> 19:39.480] And the rest is history. So
[19:40.180 -> 19:44.460] Timing is everything as well. And by that stage we were ready for the beer idea
[19:41.800 -> 19:45.160] Timing is everything as well. And by that stage, we were ready for the beer idea
[19:45.160 -> 19:46.400] because we built up experience
[19:46.400 -> 19:47.840] with all sorts of other products,
[19:47.840 -> 19:49.960] polo sticks and high fashion items
[19:49.960 -> 19:50.960] and leather and silk goods
[19:50.960 -> 19:52.480] have been sold to Harrods and Selfridges.
[19:52.480 -> 19:54.920] And, you know, we built up that experience.
[19:54.920 -> 19:56.140] It was a year down the road.
[19:56.140 -> 19:57.280] We're ready for the beer.
[19:57.280 -> 19:58.420] Luck will have it.
[19:58.420 -> 19:59.520] We stumble upon it.
[19:59.520 -> 20:00.740] And then there's lots more luck.
[20:00.740 -> 20:03.000] They didn't have a brand that was appropriate to us.
[20:03.000 -> 20:04.040] There are two biggest brands.
[20:04.040 -> 20:07.480] One was called Pals, which is the name of a dog food in Britain.
[20:07.480 -> 20:11.120] Another one was called Knockout, which is an 8% beer with a boxer having knocked out
[20:11.120 -> 20:12.120] another boxer on the label.
[20:12.120 -> 20:13.120] That sounds like a knockout, doesn't it?
[20:13.120 -> 20:14.120] Yeah.
[20:14.120 -> 20:15.120] A very successful brewery.
[20:15.120 -> 20:17.560] And we said, sorry, these are not appropriate brands for us.
[20:17.560 -> 20:18.560] Now look at the luck.
[20:18.560 -> 20:22.680] They said, well, you are going to fail because all our competitors, except for Kingfisher,
[20:22.680 -> 20:23.880] have failed.
[20:23.880 -> 20:25.120] And when it fails it'll
[20:25.120 -> 20:26.120] be your brand.
[20:26.120 -> 20:27.120] So you choose your own brand.
[20:27.120 -> 20:30.000] We'll have the prestige of exporting beer to the UK.
[20:30.000 -> 20:31.000] Look at the luck.
[20:31.000 -> 20:32.480] I wouldn't be here talking to you.
[20:32.480 -> 20:34.240] Cobra is my most valuable asset.
[20:34.240 -> 20:36.260] My brand is my most valuable asset.
[20:36.260 -> 20:40.900] So the luck comes into it but you've got to have that determination meets opportunity
[20:40.900 -> 20:45.480] and I'm working on a huge new project that is about to start.
[20:45.480 -> 20:48.840] And I was walking out of the Commonwealth Games,
[20:48.840 -> 20:51.160] I'm Chancellor of the University of Birmingham.
[20:51.160 -> 20:52.920] I was walking out of the opening ceremony
[20:52.920 -> 20:56.880] of the Commonwealth Games in the summer of 2022.
[20:56.880 -> 20:59.560] And it was a most amazing ceremony,
[20:59.560 -> 21:01.640] as good as any Olympic Games opening ceremony.
[21:01.640 -> 21:03.440] And Birmingham University played a bigger part
[21:03.440 -> 21:09.440] in these games than any universities played in any games at any time in history. And as I was walking out,
[21:09.440 -> 21:15.600] there was a sort of funnel of crowd walking through and this couple were next to me and
[21:15.600 -> 21:21.920] they said, are you Lord Bellamoria? I said, yes. Started talking to them, happens that the lady
[21:29.640 -> 21:32.320] happens that the lady is an expert in food and had all the experience of the person that are of the project that I'm working on now.
[21:32.320 -> 21:36.520] And if there's just pure serendipity, pure luck, and I said, hang on, I think you can
[21:36.520 -> 21:38.240] help me with my new idea.
[21:38.240 -> 21:39.740] Would you be interested?
[21:39.740 -> 21:40.740] And the rest is history.
[21:40.740 -> 21:43.840] We've been working closely together and we're going to come up with this new food brand
[21:43.840 -> 21:47.000] that is going to be transformational and change the marketplace forever.
[21:47.000 -> 21:52.920] Jason Vale – There's something else I really want to pick at here which is optimism.
[21:52.920 -> 21:57.040] I think that the kind of people that you're describing, and I look at lots of entrepreneurs
[21:57.040 -> 22:01.360] and I see them as gamblers. Every time they walk in the room they take a gamble that there's
[22:01.360 -> 22:05.500] going to be someone interesting. They take a gamble by starting a conversation as you did as you walked out of the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games. They take a gamble that there's going to be someone interesting. They take a gamble by starting a conversation as you did,
[22:05.500 -> 22:08.500] as you walked out of the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games.
[22:08.500 -> 22:10.200] They take a gamble when they say,
[22:10.200 -> 22:12.700] well, let's have a coffee and see whether there's some legs in this.
[22:12.700 -> 22:14.900] I mean, you know, they take the ultimate gamble as you did,
[22:14.900 -> 22:17.100] when you actually, you know, take on a big loan,
[22:17.100 -> 22:19.200] when you have no money to set up Cobra Beer.
[22:19.200 -> 22:21.600] So this mindset of optimism,
[22:21.600 -> 22:23.800] this belief that great things are going to come,
[22:23.800 -> 22:31.340] that people are going to be interesting, that a conversation is going to a conversation can lead to an opportunity and opportunities gonna lead to a business and a business is gonna lead to success.
[22:31.680 -> 22:38.520] What is your opinion and where do you stand when we talk about the importance of optimism in living a successful life.
[22:43.560 -> 22:46.760] running away from entrepreneurs tend to be more optimistic. However, I found the really successful entrepreneurs
[22:46.760 -> 22:49.360] will always look at the downside as well.
[22:49.360 -> 22:51.360] And not everything works out.
[22:51.360 -> 22:53.720] In fact, there are a lot of contradictions.
[22:53.720 -> 22:55.800] And one of my favorite sayings is Churchill saying,
[22:55.800 -> 22:57.360] I've never give up, never, ever give up.
[22:57.360 -> 23:01.680] And entrepreneurs do tend to persevere and never give up.
[23:01.680 -> 23:03.960] On the other hand, entrepreneurs know when to give up.
[23:03.960 -> 23:05.680] Now that's completely contradictory.
[23:05.680 -> 23:07.560] And I've shared the platform with Jimmy Wales,
[23:07.560 -> 23:09.160] the founder of Wikipedia.
[23:09.160 -> 23:11.320] And both of us on this particular occasion
[23:11.320 -> 23:13.240] said exactly the same thing uncorroborated
[23:13.240 -> 23:14.320] that entrepreneurs never give up,
[23:14.320 -> 23:16.160] but they also know when to give up.
[23:16.160 -> 23:18.600] And in the early days, I could give you example
[23:18.600 -> 23:20.800] after example of different projects we tried.
[23:20.800 -> 23:23.640] Oh, we found, we got the license to import bath towels
[23:23.640 -> 23:24.880] from Bombay dying in India.
[23:24.880 -> 23:28.120] This is a license to print money. we couldn't sell a single bath towel because
[23:28.120 -> 23:31.600] the quality wasn't good enough, the price wasn't good enough, the Portuguese bath towels
[23:31.600 -> 23:35.920] literally across the sea were closer, better quality, cheaper, less freight, we couldn't
[23:35.920 -> 23:37.440] compete, we couldn't sell a single bath towel.
[23:37.440 -> 23:40.360] Now, do you continue going, trying to sell Bombay Dyeing bath towels?
[23:40.360 -> 23:42.280] Of course not, you give up.
[23:42.280 -> 23:44.080] So you've got to know when to give up as well.
[23:44.080 -> 23:46.000] Well, on the other hand, when you know you've got an idea
[23:46.000 -> 23:48.000] that you really believe in, and of course,
[23:48.000 -> 23:51.000] once you start it and you get the repeat orders with Cobra,
[23:51.000 -> 23:55.000] 99% repeat orders from day one, you know you're onto something,
[23:55.000 -> 23:57.000] and you know then you've got to extrapolate that
[23:57.000 -> 23:59.000] into a global beer brand.
[23:59.000 -> 24:01.000] So it's getting to that stage where you believe in,
[24:01.000 -> 24:04.000] I call it also crossing the credibility gap.
[24:04.000 -> 24:08.320] So when you come up with an idea, you start in business, you're unknown, your product
[24:08.320 -> 24:11.080] is unknown, your brand is unknown.
[24:11.080 -> 24:15.920] Why should anyone supply you, finance you, buy from you when you've got zero credibility?
[24:15.920 -> 24:20.760] And they do that if you have passion, faith, confidence, and belief in yourself and in
[24:20.760 -> 24:24.380] your idea and in your brand, because that gives people the faith and the confidence
[24:24.380 -> 24:26.360] to trust you, to give you a chance.
[24:26.360 -> 24:28.520] That passion and faith comes through.
[24:28.520 -> 24:31.080] And that's why people will work for an unknown company,
[24:31.080 -> 24:32.560] work for an unknown brand,
[24:32.560 -> 24:34.000] if they really believe in that leader
[24:34.000 -> 24:36.440] who's got that vision, who's got that passion,
[24:36.440 -> 24:38.040] and people will follow you.
[24:38.040 -> 24:41.120] Well, let's go to the topic that you mentioned there
[24:41.120 -> 24:43.160] about knowing when to give up.
[24:43.160 -> 24:46.960] Because one of my pet hates is, you know, like these motivational quotes, and it's like, you know, y gwnaethoch chi yno am gwybod pan i'w ddod o hyd. Oherwydd un o'r petau fy nhw'n hoffi yw'r cwipau cymorthol
[24:46.960 -> 24:50.880] ac mae'n dweud, wnewch chi, nid yw'r gwyr yn ymdrech a nid yw'r gwyr yn ymdrech. Oherwydd rwy'n meddwl,
[24:50.880 -> 24:55.120] yn unig fel chi a Jimmy Wales, rwy'n dweud, rwy'n gwybod llawer o bobl sydd wedi bod yn gyffrous
[24:55.120 -> 25:00.160] a dwi'n gwybod pan i'w ddod o hyd. Ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn haws i siarad am gael ffasiwn a fydd
[25:00.160 -> 25:05.400] yn y prosiectau, ac rwy'n deall'r bwysigrwydd hwnnw. Ond beth yw'r llawysgrifion ffyrdd belief in a project and I get the importance of that. But what are the red
[25:05.400 -> 25:10.960] flags for anybody listening to this to know maybe I need to give up, maybe I'm
[25:10.960 -> 25:16.760] being delusional here. Can you advise us on that? Yes, it does become very apparent
[25:16.760 -> 25:21.560] usually pretty quickly that it's not a runner and I can give you many examples
[25:21.560 -> 25:26.440] of the failures that I've had and And quite often not for want of trying,
[25:26.440 -> 25:30.000] I came up with this great idea which I worked on
[25:30.000 -> 25:32.000] of a photo sharing app.
[25:32.000 -> 25:33.440] I mean, it's a great idea.
[25:33.440 -> 25:36.160] It works really well, but it never took off.
[25:36.160 -> 25:36.960] It just didn't work.
[25:36.960 -> 25:38.720] Now, should I have continued persevering?
[25:38.720 -> 25:39.520] I gave it my best.
[25:39.520 -> 25:41.840] I tried everything, and it didn't work.
[25:41.840 -> 25:43.440] See, you've got to know.
[25:43.440 -> 25:50.160] On the other hand, you'll come across obstacles in any business. Even with a brilliant idea, you'll come up with obstacles.
[25:50.160 -> 25:54.840] How do you then turn those obstacles into opportunities? There's a big difference between
[25:54.840 -> 26:00.520] giving up on an idea that's not going to work and an idea that is going to work but has
[26:00.520 -> 26:01.520] obstacles in the way.
[26:01.520 -> 26:05.420] How do you know it's an obstacle though and not a terminal diagnosis?
[26:05.420 -> 26:10.620] Again, with your fundamental belief that you are delivering something that is different and better
[26:10.620 -> 26:14.920] and that is going to change the marketplace forever and is going to benefit everyone down the line.
[26:14.920 -> 26:19.720] So in my case with Cobra beer, when I invented this beer that was brewed smooth for all food,
[26:19.720 -> 26:24.620] I knew that the restaurant owner would benefit because he would sell more beer
[26:24.620 -> 26:25.160] because it's
[26:25.160 -> 26:27.840] smoother, people will drink more of it, responsibly, of course.
[26:27.840 -> 26:28.840] Yes.
[26:28.840 -> 26:30.840] And they'll eat more food, so he'll sell more food.
[26:30.840 -> 26:33.440] So the restaurant owner is going to do better out of it.
[26:33.440 -> 26:36.880] And I've charged a premium price, saying, I'm going to charge you a pound a case more
[26:36.880 -> 26:41.640] from day one, but you will more than make that up on the first bottle that you sell
[26:41.640 -> 26:45.040] because of profits that the restaurant makes selling each bottle.
[26:45.040 -> 26:49.760] Next is the consumer will benefit because they'll have a product they genuinely prefer
[26:49.760 -> 26:53.640] the taste of, that's smoother, that's easier to drink, that's more comfortable and then
[26:53.640 -> 26:57.520] if they responsibly want to drink more they can and they can eat more.
[26:57.520 -> 27:00.560] So everyone benefits down the line, the distributor benefits.
[27:00.560 -> 27:03.000] So if you can do that, then you come up with an obstacle.
[27:03.000 -> 27:06.200] In the early days, the brewery said you can only do a double-sized bottle.
[27:06.200 -> 27:08.000] In India, if you go to India, to this day,
[27:08.000 -> 27:12.400] 80% of beer sold is in the double-sized 660 ml bottle.
[27:12.400 -> 27:14.760] In India, 650 ml, here it's 660 ml.
[27:14.760 -> 27:16.800] And the brewery said, you want small bottles?
[27:16.800 -> 27:17.800] Forget it.
[27:17.800 -> 27:19.320] You're not even gonna be here in a year.
[27:19.320 -> 27:21.200] And change parts in the brewery,
[27:21.200 -> 27:22.800] new molds for small bottles.
[27:22.800 -> 27:24.040] We don't sell small bottles.
[27:24.040 -> 27:27.440] If you're here in a year's time, we'll give you small bottles." True to their word, they did, by the way.
[27:28.000 -> 27:31.840] Draft beer, that's out of the question. Sending kegs all the way to the UK and empty kegs all
[27:31.840 -> 27:36.640] the way back to India, forget it. So you take these big bottles or nothing. So we'd go to the
[27:36.640 -> 27:41.280] restaurants and they'd say, give us small bottles of draft. We said, but this is all we've got.
[27:41.280 -> 27:46.200] And you turn that obstacle into an advantage. And we said, well, this is the way beer is consumed in India.
[27:46.200 -> 27:48.760] It's the authentic way that people drink beer in India.
[27:48.760 -> 27:51.080] In India, people don't order one bottle for you, one bottle for me.
[27:51.080 -> 27:54.000] They order a big bottle, two glasses, and they share the beer.
[27:54.000 -> 27:55.440] People share Indian food.
[27:55.440 -> 27:59.160] So put it on the tables and people will share the big bottles and the way they share the
[27:59.160 -> 28:00.160] food.
[28:00.160 -> 28:04.600] You'll find out they'll actually consume more of the beer and you will sell more beer.
[28:04.600 -> 28:08.000] Your waiters can leave the bottles so that frees them up to do other work.
[28:08.000 -> 28:09.440] People at other tables will say, what are they drinking?
[28:09.440 -> 28:10.440] It looks like a bottle of wine.
[28:10.440 -> 28:12.120] No, no, it's not a bottle of wine, it's a bottle of beer.
[28:12.120 -> 28:14.260] Let me try it and it spreads like wildfire.
[28:14.260 -> 28:15.880] And that obstacle became an object.
[28:15.880 -> 28:17.100] We're the first movers.
[28:17.100 -> 28:21.960] And now if you look at the supermarket shelves, every major beer brand does big bottles and
[28:21.960 -> 28:30.000] we were the first ones and it was a big obstacle.
[28:35.000 -> 28:41.000] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns. But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B and advertising on the wrong platform doesn't sell B2B either.
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[31:41.120 -> 31:44.160] so how much time would you and your
[31:43.200 -> 31:47.520] business partner
[31:44.160 -> 31:47.520] arjun spend almost pre-empting or
[31:47.520 -> 31:52.960] guessing some of these obstacles and then being able to equip yourself to handle them
[31:52.960 -> 31:55.620] with elegance in the moment?
[31:55.620 -> 31:58.120] You have to deal with it as they come up.
[31:58.120 -> 32:00.960] So you don't pre-plan for them to come up?
[32:00.960 -> 32:04.960] No, because we thought they'd want this authentic Indian beer in the double-sided bottle.
[32:04.960 -> 32:11.000] It's only when you go. And then, I mean, by the way, people can create obstacles. Oh, it doesn't fit in our fridges.
[32:11.600 -> 32:13.600] We'll put them sideways.
[32:14.400 -> 32:18.960] Because people don't like change and it's a natural human tendency to resist change.
[32:19.120 -> 32:25.360] We once were going to give our bottles the, for the refurbishment and relaunch
[32:25.360 -> 32:29.740] of a very famous Indian restaurant in Kensington.
[32:29.740 -> 32:31.540] And this was a big occasion,
[32:31.540 -> 32:33.620] celebrities were gonna be there,
[32:33.620 -> 32:37.820] and we sent 10 cases of beer for the launch
[32:37.820 -> 32:38.980] in the afternoon.
[32:38.980 -> 32:40.220] Frantic phone call from the owner,
[32:40.220 -> 32:42.300] what have you done selling me these big bottles,
[32:42.300 -> 32:43.180] take them back.
[32:43.180 -> 32:44.940] And they were desperately getting ready for the launch
[32:44.940 -> 32:46.480] and it took a lot of persuasion to say,
[32:46.480 -> 32:48.400] look, please believe us.
[32:48.400 -> 32:50.240] I mean, not a problem.
[32:50.240 -> 32:51.640] Serve the big bottles.
[32:51.640 -> 32:53.240] People will love it.
[32:53.240 -> 32:56.720] One hour into the reception, they ran out of the beer.
[32:56.720 -> 32:58.240] Please, I need more, I need more.
[32:58.240 -> 33:00.560] And they became one of our best customers after that.
[33:00.560 -> 33:04.080] So it's always a question of turning that no into a yes,
[33:04.080 -> 33:05.500] an obstacle into an opportunity.
[33:05.500 -> 33:10.300] And that comes from having rock solid belief in your idea and your product and your brand.
[33:10.300 -> 33:15.400] What about when actually you get genuine curveballs?
[33:15.400 -> 33:21.500] I saw a quote from you saying that your dad said that, you know, true leadership is when you're tested in the tough times.
[33:21.500 -> 33:27.400] And I know that you said there's three big moments in your career where you've really found business
[33:27.400 -> 33:30.680] a real challenge and Cobra went through difficult times,
[33:30.680 -> 33:32.060] went into administration.
[33:32.060 -> 33:34.960] How do you deal with those moments?
[33:34.960 -> 33:39.960] When you come up with literally existential crises
[33:40.000 -> 33:42.720] where you survive them, you survive,
[33:42.720 -> 33:45.240] if you don't, you're out of business.
[33:45.240 -> 33:48.780] And I've been through that three times.
[33:48.780 -> 33:51.760] I suppose if you count the pandemic now,
[33:51.760 -> 33:54.300] is another test of the resilience of a brand.
[33:54.300 -> 33:56.040] And the third time, of course,
[33:56.040 -> 33:57.720] was the worst in the financial crisis
[33:57.720 -> 34:01.160] where we literally came this close to losing,
[34:01.160 -> 34:04.380] I mean, almost lost the business.
[34:04.380 -> 34:09.880] And when you say went into administration, we actually saved the company.
[34:09.880 -> 34:11.360] It could have, I could have lost the company.
[34:11.360 -> 34:14.300] And how did that feel?
[34:14.300 -> 34:18.160] Because this is a company you'd spent so many years, not just creating, but nurturing and
[34:18.160 -> 34:21.960] growing like, were you struggling to sleep?
[34:21.960 -> 34:27.000] It was awful in that I remember very clearly the day
[34:27.000 -> 34:34.200] and the date when it happened on the 22nd of May in 2009,
[34:34.200 -> 34:37.800] when basically the joint venture that I was trying to create
[34:37.800 -> 34:42.120] to save the company, they said, well,
[34:42.120 -> 34:44.640] it's not going to happen anymore because one of our creditors
[34:44.640 -> 34:46.680] had pulled the rug.
[34:46.680 -> 34:48.800] And you are devastated.
[34:48.800 -> 34:51.560] And of course, this is where resilience comes into it.
[34:51.560 -> 34:53.680] This is where the guts comes into it.
[34:53.680 -> 34:57.520] And I will say that the best word to describe an entrepreneur is guts.
[34:57.520 -> 35:00.720] You have the guts to do it in the first place when others wouldn't.
[35:00.720 -> 35:02.440] A lot of people have ideas.
[35:02.440 -> 35:06.160] When I give lectures to students, schoolchildren, university students, how many of you want
[35:06.160 -> 35:07.400] to start your own business one day?
[35:07.400 -> 35:08.400] Many, many hands go up.
[35:08.400 -> 35:12.560] How many of them will actually have the guts to do it and to give up the other opportunities?
[35:12.560 -> 35:16.440] Second thing, entrepreneurs have the guts to stick with it when others would give up.
[35:16.440 -> 35:21.160] And it's that resilience that comes into a situation like this when the whole deal you've
[35:21.160 -> 35:25.600] been working on for months has fallen apart and your business
[35:25.600 -> 35:29.780] is going to be just taken away from you and all your work of all these years is just going
[35:29.780 -> 35:31.200] to disappear.
[35:31.200 -> 35:36.260] And then again, you sleep on it and you find a way out.
[35:36.260 -> 35:37.640] And you say, I'm not going to give up.
[35:37.640 -> 35:41.080] And then they said, well, there is one way out of it, but it will involve that you will
[35:41.080 -> 35:42.860] have to bid for the business.
[35:42.860 -> 35:48.420] You can persuade the joint venture partners to stick with you, and then you may not win the bid, but you
[35:48.420 -> 35:49.840] can have a go.
[35:49.840 -> 35:55.320] And it took a week, and on the 29th of May, we won the bid through a very transparent,
[35:55.320 -> 36:00.500] rigorous process run by Rothschilds and PWC, and we won the bid, and we saved the business.
[36:00.500 -> 36:05.000] But a week before, I had technically lost it all.
[36:05.000 -> 36:08.040] And so it is that ability to gather yourself
[36:08.040 -> 36:09.840] and then to go for it and say,
[36:09.840 -> 36:11.520] I'm gonna find a way out of this.
[36:11.520 -> 36:12.500] I'm gonna rescue the business.
[36:12.500 -> 36:15.760] And now 13 years later, Cobra is stronger than ever.
[36:15.760 -> 36:17.560] And we've had a joint venture with Molson Co.
[36:17.560 -> 36:18.840] is one of the biggest beer brands,
[36:18.840 -> 36:20.200] beer brewers in the world.
[36:21.080 -> 36:22.760] And it's been very resilient.
[36:22.760 -> 36:25.800] And the previous two experiences have also been awful.
[36:25.800 -> 36:27.560] I mean, the one before that,
[36:27.560 -> 36:31.540] we had just agreed a strategic deal in 2008
[36:31.540 -> 36:34.760] with the biggest drinks company in the world at that time.
[36:34.760 -> 36:36.960] And they were taking a 30% stake in Cobra
[36:36.960 -> 36:37.960] for 30 million pounds,
[36:37.960 -> 36:39.840] valuing us at a hundred million pounds
[36:39.840 -> 36:41.600] with one seat on our board.
[36:41.600 -> 36:42.640] And in five years time,
[36:42.640 -> 36:44.000] we would have to sell the company to them
[36:44.000 -> 36:45.920] based on the performance of the business.
[36:45.920 -> 36:51.800] At that time we thought what a great deal and all the due diligence was done and we're
[36:51.800 -> 36:57.680] about to sign the agreements and they pulled out and they got cold feet.
[36:57.680 -> 37:01.800] I found out later it was the finance director that got cold feet why the business environment
[37:01.800 -> 37:02.800] was uncertain.
[37:02.800 -> 37:08.040] Two weeks later the Lehman's went bust and the world collapsed. That was devastating at the time when they
[37:08.040 -> 37:11.920] said no after all the work that we put in. The time before that was a completely
[37:11.920 -> 37:15.880] unforeseen circumstance where we had a boycott on Cobra beer for a year, took us
[37:15.880 -> 37:19.480] a year to get out of the boycotts. Each of the three circumstances were very
[37:19.480 -> 37:23.420] different when I nearly lost my business. The three things that got me through, one
[37:23.420 -> 37:26.560] was having a strong brand, very resilient brand.
[37:27.400 -> 37:31.180] Secondly, was having the support of my team and family.
[37:31.180 -> 37:32.900] My wife stood by me throughout.
[37:32.900 -> 37:34.960] I met her one year after I started Cobra.
[37:34.960 -> 37:36.760] So she's seen all the ups and downs
[37:36.760 -> 37:38.640] of this business, this journey.
[37:38.640 -> 37:40.760] And she was amazing, stood by me throughout.
[37:40.760 -> 37:43.640] Without her support, I wouldn't be talking to you now.
[37:43.640 -> 37:47.600] And finally, was always doing it the right way,
[37:47.600 -> 37:48.960] the integrity.
[37:48.960 -> 37:51.120] And it's easy to say that,
[37:51.120 -> 37:54.640] but if I could describe the bad behavior
[37:54.640 -> 37:57.320] of the people around the table when things fall apart
[37:57.320 -> 38:01.080] of some of the lawyers and bankers and hedge fund managers,
[38:01.080 -> 38:04.160] and I mean, appalling, appalling behavior.
[38:04.160 -> 38:05.040] And you just say
[38:05.040 -> 38:09.680] always play with a straight bat and that old saying play up play up and play the
[38:09.680 -> 38:14.120] game and you do that and and that's that's how I go through those three
[38:14.120 -> 38:17.280] things and even through the pandemic the Cobra brand has been phenomenally resilient.
[38:17.280 -> 38:21.320] I'm interested if you take us into the crucible of those moments where the
[38:21.320 -> 38:30.120] deals off the table you face with that existential crisis because as you're talking I can almost imagine hearing your father that must
[38:30.120 -> 38:34.760] have felt a very similar existential crisis when he's commanding battalions
[38:34.760 -> 38:42.600] in in the army. Yeah. I'm interested in like the two or three tips or techniques
[38:42.600 -> 38:46.300] you could share with our listeners about how do
[38:46.300 -> 38:51.660] you process the shock of that moment to then be able to maintain your dignity
[38:51.660 -> 38:56.340] get back on your feet and come up with a plan that allows you to survive. Could
[38:56.340 -> 39:00.420] you share some of them for us? Yes it is all my father would of course express it
[39:00.420 -> 39:04.340] by saying in a crisis situation be cool calm and collected. That's very easy to
[39:04.340 -> 39:07.320] say that it's very difficult to actually do that.
[39:07.320 -> 39:09.720] Again, I can give you example after example.
[39:09.720 -> 39:14.360] It's again, do you have that inherent attitude
[39:14.360 -> 39:17.600] within yourself that you'll always do the right thing,
[39:17.600 -> 39:19.520] that you'll always behave with integrity,
[39:19.520 -> 39:23.320] that you will find a way to get through the situation?
[39:23.320 -> 39:25.080] The other day, I was being driven up
[39:25.080 -> 39:28.360] to give a talk in East Anglia,
[39:28.360 -> 39:31.600] and my driver, I could suddenly see, was not well.
[39:31.600 -> 39:33.760] I asked him to pull up on the service station,
[39:33.760 -> 39:37.040] the next service station, and he nearly crashed the car.
[39:37.040 -> 39:38.640] And as we got to the service station,
[39:38.640 -> 39:42.260] he fell out of the car and literally fell out and fell over.
[39:42.260 -> 39:45.140] And the ambulance was gonna take two hours to come.
[39:45.140 -> 39:48.000] And I just took the decision then and there.
[39:48.000 -> 39:49.800] Luckily, people helped out.
[39:49.800 -> 39:52.040] I said, I'm gonna drive him to the closest hospital.
[39:52.040 -> 39:53.680] And I got him at the back of the car.
[39:53.680 -> 39:56.080] Closest hospital was about 20 minutes away.
[39:56.080 -> 39:57.120] And I drove him to the hospital,
[39:57.120 -> 39:59.480] got his man, got him into hospital.
[39:59.480 -> 40:01.800] And I said, thank God you took that action straight away.
[40:01.800 -> 40:03.320] You may have saved his life.
[40:03.320 -> 40:06.480] Now, it's how you react in a situation like that.
[40:06.480 -> 40:07.480] Do you panic?
[40:07.480 -> 40:10.240] Do you helpless?
[40:10.240 -> 40:14.280] You get on with it and you find a solution and you act.
[40:14.280 -> 40:18.600] And it's the same sort of thing where it's horrible, it's not nice, it's awful.
[40:18.600 -> 40:27.680] And this person had been working with me for over a decade and you want to get there and sort the situation out.
[40:27.680 -> 40:32.600] And by the way, after that, I got a call from the talk which I was meant to be giving, and
[40:32.600 -> 40:35.920] they said, oh, would you mind doing this virtually?
[40:35.920 -> 40:37.200] And they set up a big screen.
[40:37.200 -> 40:41.200] There were 100 people, the whos of the business community from there, at the University of
[40:41.200 -> 40:49.400] East Anglia, and I sat in the car park of the hospital and did one hour Zoom call straight after this incident and did the talk and I didn't
[40:49.400 -> 40:53.160] let them down. So you know, there are many examples I can give you.
[40:53.160 -> 40:59.320] RK Sure and I love the examples but I'm interested in the actual techniques of being able to
[40:59.320 -> 41:05.260] process that and how did you learn to do it that our listeners could maybe take away and go I might
[41:05.260 -> 41:11.620] be facing a situation with my children at school or I might be dealing with my own business,
[41:11.620 -> 41:16.860] how do I be able to process a setback and be action orientated like yourself?
[41:16.860 -> 41:26.720] It's all down to attitude. Do you have that attitude that you are going to find a way, always. Where there's a will, there is a way.
[41:26.720 -> 41:34.560] And if you have that within you, you will, even in the most adverse situations, be able
[41:34.560 -> 41:36.160] to find a way through.
[41:36.160 -> 41:40.840] Now I can't put it more clearly than that.
[41:40.840 -> 41:46.000] It's the same way when I recruit people, I'm looking for will rather than skill.
[41:46.000 -> 41:48.000] I mean, ideally both, but the will is more important.
[41:48.000 -> 41:50.000] Does the person have that right attitude?
[41:50.000 -> 41:52.000] And attitude is everything.
[41:52.000 -> 41:56.000] We've reached the point for our quickfire questions, Karan.
[41:56.000 -> 42:00.000] The first one is, what are the three non-negotiable behaviors
[42:00.000 -> 42:04.000] that you and the people around you must subscribe to?
[42:04.000 -> 42:09.000] Without a doubt, integrity is the most important thing,
[42:09.000 -> 42:15.000] that people must have integrity.
[42:15.000 -> 42:18.000] The other is attitude.
[42:18.000 -> 42:28.800] It's having the right attitude is the most important thing to me. And the other thing is that people should be willing
[42:28.800 -> 42:30.980] and happy to work in a team.
[42:30.980 -> 42:35.000] And I want superstars, but I want people who also are
[42:35.000 -> 42:37.200] willing and happy to work in a team.
[42:37.200 -> 42:40.880] What is your biggest weakness and your greatest strength?
[42:40.880 -> 42:43.040] Oh, I have several weaknesses.
[42:43.040 -> 42:47.240] I suppose my biggest weakness is I do a lot. Now that's a pro and
[42:47.240 -> 42:55.280] a con. And you learn to say no, but I try to help as much as I can. And I get asked
[42:55.280 -> 42:59.160] to help people every single day and I don't like saying no to that. I want to try and
[42:59.160 -> 43:04.040] help as much as I can. I love all the things I do. I'm so lucky to have the opportunity
[43:04.040 -> 43:06.000] to be chancellor of one of the biggest universities in the country,
[43:06.000 -> 43:12.000] Russell Group University, Birmingham, to have been head of the CBI, to be in the House of Lords, a place I love,
[43:12.000 -> 43:19.000] and I love being and participating in Parliament, to run a household name, Cobra Beer, a brand that I created.
[43:19.000 -> 43:25.280] All these things I absolutely love. So, you know, the weakness could be that
[43:25.280 -> 43:26.880] are you taking on too much?
[43:26.880 -> 43:28.680] And my attitude to that is,
[43:28.680 -> 43:31.760] if I can do all these things that I enjoy and appreciate
[43:31.760 -> 43:32.720] and I'm privileged to do,
[43:32.720 -> 43:35.280] and I can do well at all of them, great.
[43:35.280 -> 43:37.480] But there is a limit.
[43:37.480 -> 43:39.600] And so you do have to say no.
[43:39.600 -> 43:43.240] And my biggest strength is I think
[43:43.240 -> 43:50.400] that I am very innovative and creative and I like leading,
[43:50.400 -> 43:55.240] I like motivating and inspiring people. That is a strength that I've learnt over the years.
[43:55.240 -> 43:59.640] I've learnt from people like my father. I've learnt from all the mistakes that I made.
[43:59.640 -> 44:02.840] I mean, good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement. So
[44:02.840 -> 44:06.600] I've made loads of mistakes and hopefully learned something from them.
[44:06.600 -> 44:12.600] So yes, I do think that that ability to lead and the other strength that I have is
[44:12.600 -> 44:18.120] I can do all these different things and have the ability to switch off from one and then switch on to another.
[44:18.120 -> 44:20.000] That is also a skill that you learn.
[44:20.000 -> 44:22.560] That one minute you're in a business environment, next minute you're in an academic environment,
[44:22.560 -> 44:24.320] next minute you're in a political environment.
[44:24.320 -> 44:25.960] Can you switch on and off?
[44:26.040 -> 44:29.600] In a matter of minutes to deal from one to the other what quote or motto?
[44:30.640 -> 44:35.880] Do you remind yourself of the most or live by I got from my great-grandfather who?
[44:36.560 -> 44:40.200] Somebody has inspired me a great deal was an entrepreneur did public service
[44:40.960 -> 44:46.160] Philanthropist great family man and was a member of the Indian equivalent of the House of Lords, the upper house in India.
[44:46.160 -> 44:47.920] So four generations later,
[44:47.920 -> 44:51.160] I've in many ways done what he's done in India over here.
[44:51.160 -> 44:54.320] And his motto was to aspire and achieve.
[44:54.320 -> 44:57.400] And that's on my coat of arms,
[44:57.400 -> 45:00.000] when I joined the House of Lords is to aspire and achieve.
[45:00.000 -> 45:03.920] And I've added my motto, my business' motto,
[45:03.920 -> 45:06.600] Cobra Bear's motto, is to aspire and achieve
[45:06.600 -> 45:09.680] against all odds with integrity.
[45:09.680 -> 45:10.800] You come up with an idea,
[45:10.800 -> 45:12.880] you want to get somewhere with the idea,
[45:12.880 -> 45:15.160] you've always got all the odds stacked against you,
[45:15.160 -> 45:16.960] you've been very good, little or no means,
[45:16.960 -> 45:18.440] and you go out there and you make it happen,
[45:18.440 -> 45:21.520] but most importantly, you make it happen the right way
[45:21.520 -> 45:23.000] and you do it with integrity.
[45:23.000 -> 45:24.640] What is the thing that most people get wrong
[45:24.640 -> 45:26.640] or misunderstand about you?
[45:26.640 -> 45:32.080] I think that sometimes people get the impression that I
[45:32.080 -> 45:38.640] come from a very wealthy background and they don't realize how hard I've
[45:38.640 -> 45:42.960] actually had to work with nothing. I mean I come from
[45:42.960 -> 45:45.760] what I always say that I come from a very privileged background.
[45:45.760 -> 45:49.440] My father was commander in chief of the central army with 350,000 troops under his command.
[45:49.440 -> 45:54.880] But there's no money. So I literally started Cobra Beer with 20,000 pounds of student debt
[45:54.880 -> 45:59.280] to pay off. I've had to raise every bit of money. The finance has been tough, tough,
[45:59.280 -> 46:06.960] tough all the way. And I've created all this from a privileged background, but not somebody who's had a silver
[46:06.960 -> 46:11.480] spoon in their mouth in that sense and who had all the money. I mean, the great entrepreneurs
[46:11.480 -> 46:15.080] who create a big business, you realize, oh, actually the father put in 10 million or 20
[46:15.080 -> 46:18.840] million or whatever. I didn't have any of that. In fact, in the early days, my father
[46:18.840 -> 46:22.840] would say, what are you doing? All this education, you're becoming an import-export while I get
[46:22.840 -> 46:29.720] a proper job. And it's only later on that he became my biggest supporter. So, yeah, it's that
[46:29.720 -> 46:36.960] perception, people think, oh, yeah, this chap went to Cambridge and he played polo and he
[46:36.960 -> 46:40.520] must come from a very wealthy background. Not at all. It's the exact opposite.
[46:40.520 -> 46:49.920] I found this a really fascinating conversation, the importance of educating people into creativity, not out of creativity, taking risks, remaining
[46:49.920 -> 46:54.320] optimistic, the resilience to keep going through business. I think it's been such
[46:54.320 -> 46:58.600] a valuable conversation, particularly in an era where our young people are given
[46:58.600 -> 47:01.640] so many negative messages all the time. You know, we have people that constantly
[47:01.640 -> 47:08.480] say to us, well, it's not easy to start a new business or be entrepreneurial or find your own path. And I tell them that I think
[47:08.480 -> 47:13.360] there's more opportunity than ever before. And I would love one final message from you to the
[47:13.360 -> 47:17.600] people listening to this conversation who are maybe searching for their own version of high
[47:17.600 -> 47:27.440] performance. What would you like to leave them with? What would you like them to think about? I leave it with two things. So one is, well, three things actually.
[47:27.440 -> 47:32.440] Firstly is always be curious and want to learn.
[47:33.960 -> 47:36.480] One of my favorite sayings of Mahatma Gandhi is,
[47:36.480 -> 47:38.840] which my son actually told me about, my younger son,
[47:38.840 -> 47:41.560] is live as if you're going to die tomorrow,
[47:41.560 -> 47:43.440] learn as if you're going to live forever.
[47:43.440 -> 47:47.400] So that nonstop learning, it never stops.
[47:47.400 -> 47:50.800] The next thing is to really believe in yourselves.
[47:50.800 -> 47:54.640] You've got to have that self-belief and that's another saying of Mahatma Gandhi's which I
[47:54.640 -> 47:58.000] paraphrase is, your beliefs become your thoughts, your thoughts become your words, your words
[47:58.000 -> 48:01.480] become your actions, your actions become your habits, your habits form your character and
[48:01.480 -> 48:06.280] your character determines your destiny and it all starts with belief.
[48:06.280 -> 48:12.860] And then finally, whatever business you're in, there's some basics, there's like a checklist
[48:12.860 -> 48:15.180] you can always have in the back of your mind.
[48:15.180 -> 48:21.760] And in my case, it's a new business I'm starting or my existing business, I apply the 10 Ps
[48:21.760 -> 48:22.800] of business.
[48:22.800 -> 48:25.720] Great product at the right price,
[48:25.720 -> 48:27.040] place, it's got to be available,
[48:27.040 -> 48:28.800] promotion, you've got to promote it.
[48:29.800 -> 48:31.560] People, any business about people.
[48:31.560 -> 48:34.240] I'm a manufacturer, but it's all about people.
[48:34.240 -> 48:35.240] Finance spelled PH,
[48:35.240 -> 48:37.520] you can't do anything without the money.
[48:37.520 -> 48:39.520] Passion, don't do it.
[48:39.520 -> 48:41.840] Follow your passion, not your pension.
[48:41.840 -> 48:43.680] Just don't do it if you don't enjoy it.
[48:43.680 -> 48:49.460] Do what you love. Principles, It's better to fail doing the right thing than to succeed doing the
[48:49.460 -> 48:54.160] wrong thing. Partnership. Treat everyone as your partner. Your supplier, your
[48:54.160 -> 48:57.260] customer, your shareholders, your advertising agency, your lawyers, your
[48:57.260 -> 49:01.000] accountants. They're all your partners. And finally, there's no point if you don't
[49:01.000 -> 49:07.200] make a profit. Fantastic. Thank you so much for that conversation and for the lessons you shared with us.
[49:07.200 -> 49:07.600] Amazing.
[49:11.840 -> 49:12.480] Damien.
[49:12.480 -> 49:13.200] Jake.
[49:13.200 -> 49:16.560] That is the kind of conversation that I love where someone has got
[49:17.120 -> 49:21.600] decades of experience in business, but they've managed to distill it down to individual lessons
[49:22.240 -> 49:25.640] or specific phrases or certain ways of thinking. And I
[49:25.640 -> 49:31.040] honestly believe that if I was a young entrepreneur and I stumbled across this episode of the
[49:31.040 -> 49:35.280] High Performance Podcast, I would be sharing it with everyone I meet because the guy's
[49:35.280 -> 49:40.480] been there, he's bought the t-shirt, he's had the failures, he's had the successes,
[49:40.480 -> 49:49.640] and he is smart enough not just to know what happened but to know why it happened. Toby Yeah and that formula we shared with us about problems solutions equals
[49:49.640 -> 49:55.400] success was dynamite. I think I quoted to him that research that was done by
[49:55.400 -> 50:00.120] Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi on this where they took the context for people that
[50:00.120 -> 50:04.840] might be looking for more detail on it was that in the 1960s he went into the
[50:04.840 -> 50:06.200] Chicago School of Arts and there was all these students that were given there was y gallai fod yn edrych arno i fwy o ddetail arno, oedd y bydd, yn y 1960au, roedd yn mynd i'r Ysgol Gelf Cymru
[50:06.200 -> 50:09.240] ac roedd yna'r holl myfyrwyr sy'n cael,
[50:09.240 -> 50:10.520] roedd yr holl eitemau ar y bwrdd
[50:10.520 -> 50:11.920] ac roedd angen eu pwysleisio eitemau
[50:11.920 -> 50:14.560] y gallai eu creu ar gyfer argyfwng bywyd eisoes.
[50:14.560 -> 50:28.480] Ac yr hyn rydyn nhw wedi'u cael yw, rhai myodd y peth hwnnw i'r 10 mlynedd nesaf,
[50:28.480 -> 50:32.720] y rhai a ddod i'r pwysau o edrych ar sut y gallaf ddatblygu problemau yn hytrach na sut y gallaf
[50:32.720 -> 50:38.320] creu pwydau da, oedd y rhai sy'n dal i fod yn mwy cyffrous ac yn ymdrech yn eu cymunedau.
[50:38.320 -> 50:42.400] Ac rwy'n credu y byddai'r rhai a ddweud yn y podcast hon yn rhywun sy'n dod
[50:42.400 -> 50:46.100] ar broblemau a edrych ar gydolion creadigol yn y ffordd i'w wneud, yn hytrach na edrych ar y in this podcast is somebody that comes at problems and looks for creative solutions
[50:46.100 -> 50:49.680] is the way for it rather than looking for the perfect answer.
[50:49.680 -> 50:53.580] And you know, we've spoken to lots of people and it's become clear I think to both of us
[50:53.580 -> 50:59.860] that flexibility is absolutely vital for any form of success. And I think the way that
[50:59.860 -> 51:04.740] he spoke about the importance of being flexible so that you are determined and you do push
[51:04.740 -> 51:11.080] forwards and you do have self-belief and optimism, but at the same time you have the mental dexterity
[51:11.080 -> 51:14.680] to quit if you know something isn't going to work and you're brave enough to make that
[51:14.680 -> 51:19.600] decision. I love the phrase, hold your belief slightly. And I think there's a real value
[51:19.600 -> 51:22.680] in that for people that want to go and make a real difference in the world. You can't
[51:22.680 -> 51:28.560] have a fixed mindset and get to the end of your days and think, yep, that served me well. Lord Billimoria
[51:28.560 -> 51:33.740] is the perfect example of someone who, even at the age he is now, is learning every day.
[51:33.740 -> 51:38.780] What did he say about learning for life? Living like you're going to die tomorrow, learning
[51:38.780 -> 51:44.280] like you're going to live forever. There's a real value in that, you know, lifelong learning,
[51:44.280 -> 51:49.240] lifelong growth. Well, surely that's a sign of real intellect, the ability to take on board
[51:49.240 -> 51:54.200] new information and use it in a way to come up with a different answer and I
[51:54.200 -> 52:00.000] think that's what, you know, he told the example of from his school having to
[52:00.000 -> 52:03.440] adapt when he's going to seven different schools in his childhood but then
[52:03.440 -> 52:08.000] selling polo sticks, sellingu gwyrion te
[52:08.000 -> 52:11.840] a'r gallu i ffwrdd a dweud, dyma ddim yn gweithio, dyma ddim
[52:11.840 -> 52:15.160] lle rhaid i mi fynd. Ac mae hynny'n ei ofyn i'w ddewis,
[52:15.160 -> 52:17.320] felly mae'r cyfle, fel y dweud, pan fydd yn cwrdd â chwmni
[52:17.320 -> 52:20.640] bwyd a bydd eisiau dechrau'n dynnu'r gweithredu,
[52:20.640 -> 52:23.000] mae hi yno, mae'r cyfle o'r gynllun
[52:23.000 -> 52:26.200] pan fydd y cyfle yn cyrraedd y gysylltiad, gall e'i ddefnyddio. he's there, that serendipity of when
[52:23.560 -> 52:29.000] opportunity meets preparedness, he can
[52:26.200 -> 52:31.400] take advantage of it. That's something that
[52:29.000 -> 52:33.080] is a mindset that's open to anyone
[52:31.400 -> 52:36.840] listening to this. How open, how curious
[52:33.080 -> 52:38.320] are you about opportunities? And you saw
[52:36.840 -> 52:40.040] his eyes light up when he spoke about his
[52:38.320 -> 52:42.320] latest business venture. I think that's the
[52:40.040 -> 52:44.200] key thing, is like, he wasn't curious in
[52:42.320 -> 52:46.120] his 20s and 30s and 40s and then
[52:44.200 -> 52:49.120] chilled in his 50s thirties and forties and then chilled in his fifties and sixties. Like the curiosity is as strong now as it's always
[52:49.120 -> 52:53.880] been. I was sitting there thinking, Oh, what is this new business venture? I can't wait
[52:53.880 -> 52:54.880] to find out what it is.
[52:54.880 -> 52:56.200] Jason Vale Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if he's offering shares
[52:56.200 -> 52:57.200] in it at this stage.
[52:57.200 -> 52:59.720] Rob Mayzes Oh man, I should have asked him. Thanks a
[52:59.720 -> 53:00.720] lot mate.
[53:00.720 -> 53:01.720] Jason Vale Loved it. Thanks mate.
[53:01.720 -> 53:04.560] Jason Vale Right. It's time to meet another listener
[53:04.560 -> 53:06.000] to the High Performance Podcast.
[53:06.000 -> 53:11.000] We had an incredible email from Rob who told us that he's worked in live events for 20 years,
[53:11.000 -> 53:14.000] but had a really tough 2021.
[53:14.000 -> 53:18.000] He's also developed something which I think you guys are going to find fascinating.
[53:18.000 -> 53:20.000] So let's welcome him to the podcast. Hi, Rob.
[53:20.000 -> 53:22.000] Hi guys. How are you doing?
[53:22.000 -> 53:29.820] Very well. I hear you've seen us a couple of times on our live shows. Have you? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure whether I'm blacklisted. I've
[53:29.820 -> 53:34.980] seen, I saw you for the book launch. I saw you at the Salford gig. I even jumped on the
[53:34.980 -> 53:40.260] zoom that you did in spring, last spring. We did a little zoom Q and A session. So yeah.
[53:40.260 -> 53:45.400] Oh, thank you. Love that. Let's talk about what happened then in 2021. You got in touch
[53:45.400 -> 53:48.680] with us to say it was a really tough year. So tell us the story, mate.
[53:48.680 -> 53:52.960] Yeah, it was. Yeah. I mean, if I dial it back kind of the last two years, I've just done
[53:52.960 -> 53:58.520] a little list here. It's pretty, it's pretty major really. So yeah, that kind of 2020,
[53:58.520 -> 54:04.840] 2021 lockdown hit. I've been working in live events, everything stopped and it just, it
[54:04.840 -> 54:05.600] impacted everybody and it just impacted everybody
[54:05.600 -> 54:10.640] and it still is continuously, but I just had a really bad bout of anxiety, depression, just
[54:10.640 -> 54:17.280] pretty locked in. Through that time I'd completed an MBA, I'd done a self-funded master's distance
[54:17.280 -> 54:25.240] learning. My son had had a really horrendous accident, he fractured his skull like a near fatal accident and I
[54:25.240 -> 54:31.600] lost three jobs in a 12-month period. So quite a lot going on at that time and I
[54:31.600 -> 54:36.480] think obviously looking for support networks, you guys were there. Huge fan of
[54:36.480 -> 54:41.760] stoicism as I know you both are as well and it was just kind of trying to take
[54:41.760 -> 54:48.640] that principle of you can't control what happens. You can only control how you respond to what happens.
[54:48.640 -> 54:52.960] I know both of you are massive advocates of kind of that way of thinking.
[54:52.960 -> 54:56.720] The other one I love is endeavor through adversity.
[54:56.720 -> 54:57.720] That's through dark.
[54:57.720 -> 54:58.720] I don't know if you've come across them.
[54:58.720 -> 55:03.160] The X Special Forces guys who run kind of an outdoor equipment.
[55:03.160 -> 55:06.240] But I really think that getting through things
[55:06.240 -> 55:09.560] and then massively obstacle is the way, Ryan Holiday,
[55:09.560 -> 55:13.240] again, you spoke to him recently, an absolute star.
[55:13.240 -> 55:16.320] And that just gave me the opportunity to kind of reframe
[55:16.320 -> 55:20.280] all those pretty major life-changing events.
[55:20.280 -> 55:23.080] And I looked at it as a midlife epiphany.
[55:23.080 -> 55:26.440] It wasn't a midlife crisis, I took it as a midlife epiphany. It wasn't a midlife crisis, I took it as a midlife epiphany.
[55:26.440 -> 55:30.000] I really kind of pivoted how I approached things
[55:30.000 -> 55:31.560] and how I looked at things.
[55:31.560 -> 55:33.200] So tell us more about that then.
[55:33.200 -> 55:37.000] So tell us what emerged from this epiphany.
[55:37.000 -> 55:37.840] Yeah, of course.
[55:37.840 -> 55:42.060] I mean, I'd worked full-time employment for 30 years,
[55:42.060 -> 55:46.320] kind of your classic, nice house, nice car, lovely family, got the dog, got
[55:46.320 -> 55:50.860] everything on the way. I was been a commercial director for about five years,
[55:50.860 -> 55:58.000] so pretty well up in terms of how I've moved through my career. And it was just,
[55:58.000 -> 56:02.300] I think all those things and how I reframed it really gave me the
[56:02.300 -> 56:05.320] opportunity to kind of look at what I'd done,
[56:05.320 -> 56:08.280] but more importantly, what I wanted to do moving forward.
[56:08.280 -> 56:11.120] Going through that bout of poor mental health
[56:11.120 -> 56:14.680] really drove me to try and find a way of using my experience
[56:14.680 -> 56:18.820] in live events, in gigs, live music, live sport,
[56:18.820 -> 56:20.520] to try and help people out,
[56:20.520 -> 56:23.700] recognize that when those events were taken away from us,
[56:23.700 -> 56:28.240] it was heartbreaking for me, but there's a lot of people that for whatever reason don't get to access
[56:28.240 -> 56:31.120] those events, they haven't got the networks, they haven't got the
[56:31.120 -> 56:38.200] connections and that's really where the GigMate idea came from which is to create
[56:38.200 -> 56:44.720] real-life supportive connections for people and what I'm doing now is taking
[56:44.720 -> 56:45.360] the concept
[56:45.360 -> 56:49.100] it's just me that's working on this and drilling it right down and I'm running a
[56:49.100 -> 56:53.660] trial in Liverpool at the moment, home city, obviously massive city for music
[56:53.660 -> 57:00.240] and heritage and culture and just working through I sent my first match-up
[57:00.240 -> 57:08.280] email today so that's gone out to anyone who likes indie music it's gone out to say these gigs are coming up if you fancy coming along I'll match you up
[57:08.280 -> 57:13.240] with someone who matches your profile and that can be the age group that you
[57:13.240 -> 57:16.400] want to go with the size of group you want to go to these events and the
[57:16.400 -> 57:20.360] gender and then I'll match people up behind and hopefully start some really
[57:20.360 -> 57:24.760] solid connections and friendships through this. And what's the benefit of
[57:24.760 -> 57:28.680] it from doing this because I love the concept of it
[57:28.680 -> 57:32.800] but I'm interested in if you'll explain to us why this is so important.
[57:32.800 -> 57:37.640] Passion points of mine being mental health, being live events, I've gone to live gigs
[57:37.640 -> 57:42.260] since I was kind of 15, 16 and all the way through. The benefits for the people
[57:42.260 -> 57:52.800] and where other people are really positively responding to this is the loneliness endemic and the figures around it are just astounding. Nine million people
[57:52.800 -> 57:58.720] in the UK say they're lonely, some or most of the time, and they're stating that. And it's 16 to 36
[57:58.720 -> 58:09.480] is the group that's hit worse, that kind of young teens and upwards. So to give them a platform where they can connect with like-minded people.
[58:09.480 -> 58:13.000] And I just think music and sport, but this is music at the moment.
[58:13.240 -> 58:15.400] It's such a passion point for people.
[58:15.440 -> 58:21.080] And it's such a, it's such a great connector because you're not going to have an
[58:21.080 -> 58:23.360] awkward conversation. You're straight in, you know,
[58:23.360 -> 58:26.560] you like the same thing and you go into an event
[58:26.560 -> 58:28.360] and then who knows what will come of that.
[58:28.360 -> 58:29.200] Love that.
[58:29.200 -> 58:31.520] Listen, mate, thank you so much for what you've done.
[58:31.520 -> 58:32.760] Thank you for the support you've given
[58:32.760 -> 58:33.880] the High Performance Podcast.
[58:33.880 -> 58:36.220] And the biggest thing for us is when people like you
[58:36.220 -> 58:38.440] pass it on, you know, gig mates is, you know,
[58:38.440 -> 58:40.580] I'm sure you're getting a lot from it.
[58:40.580 -> 58:42.560] So it's not completely about other people,
[58:42.560 -> 58:49.240] but it really is about bringing other people together, trying to do what you can to solve the challenges that people have around mental
[58:49.240 -> 58:53.000] health. It's so funny you say this, because I was only speaking to someone the other day
[58:53.000 -> 58:57.640] who said that when he goes, he doesn't go to gigs, doesn't go out because he goes on
[58:57.640 -> 59:00.860] his own basically. And he had his mind plays tricks on him and says, what if you get lost
[59:00.860 -> 59:03.720] on the way and you can't find your way? Or what if you go, what if something happens
[59:03.720 -> 59:06.000] in the gig and you're stuck on your, being on his own
[59:06.000 -> 59:10.240] was the biggest barrier for him doing this and you are making a genuine difference to
[59:10.240 -> 59:13.920] people like that. So listen, Rob, on behalf of the whole community, mate, thank you so
[59:13.920 -> 59:14.920] much.
[59:14.920 -> 59:17.920] Rob Mayzes Oh, thanks, Jake. Thanks, Damien. Love that.
[59:17.920 -> 59:19.800] Jason Vale Cheers, mate.
[59:19.800 -> 59:24.500] Well, thanks very much for listening to today's episode. As you know, you are the people that
[59:24.500 -> 59:25.760] make high performance possible.
[59:25.760 -> 59:27.040] If it wasn't for you downloading
[59:27.040 -> 59:28.780] and sharing these conversations,
[59:28.780 -> 59:30.480] we simply wouldn't be having them.
[59:30.480 -> 59:32.400] Of course, you can also watch these on YouTube
[59:32.400 -> 59:34.800] as well as listen to them wherever you get your podcasts.
[59:34.800 -> 59:36.440] You know you can check out our website,
[59:36.440 -> 59:38.680] the highperformancepodcast.com
[59:38.680 -> 59:41.260] and get tickets for our live UK tour
[59:41.260 -> 59:42.840] that we're currently embarking on.
[59:42.840 -> 59:44.840] But thank you so much for coming for another episode.
[59:44.840 -> 59:47.600] Please continue to spread the learnings you're taking from this series.
[59:47.600 -> 59:49.360] Remember, there is no secret.
[59:49.360 -> 59:50.960] It is all there for you.
[59:50.960 -> 59:52.640] So chase world-class basics.
[59:52.640 -> 59:54.480] Don't get high on your own supply.
[59:54.480 -> 59:57.440] Remain humble, curious and empathetic.
[59:58.080 -> 01:00:28.700] And we'll see you soon. Save big on the brands you love at the Fred Meyer 5AM Black Friday Sale!
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