Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 24 Apr 2023 00:00:52 GMT
Duration:
1:03:48
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Guenther Steiner is a renowned motorsport engineer and team manager, best known for his current position as the Haas Formula One Team Principal. With over 30 years working in motorsport, Guenther is highly admired throughout the community and has become a leading figure in popular Netflix series, ‘Drive to Survive’.
In this episode, he describes how he found his way to a career in racing, his approach to management and how he nurtures his relationships with drivers and team mates to help push the team forward. In addition to this, Guenther shares how it feels to watch one of his team suffer from a serious crash, and the burden of hoping to see them emerge from the wreckage.
You can read more of Guenther's story in his new book. More information is available at https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/451686/surviving-to-drive-by-steiner-guenther/9781787636279
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### Gunther Steiner: The Team Principal of the Haas Formula One Team
**Introduction:**
* Gunther Steiner is a renowned motorsport engineer and team manager, known for his current position as the Haas Formula One Team Principal.
* He has over 30 years of experience in motorsport and has become a leading figure in the popular Netflix series, ‘Drive to Survive’.
* In this episode, Gunther shares his journey to a career in racing, his approach to management, and how he nurtures relationships with drivers and teammates to drive the team forward.
**Key Points:**
1. **Finding a Career in Racing:**
* Gunther discovered his passion for racing cars at a young age, despite coming from a region with no racing culture.
* He pursued his dream by applying for a job at a magazine and eventually worked his way up in the racing industry.
* Gunther emphasizes the importance of persistence and not giving up on one's goals, even when faced with challenges and naysayers.
2. **Leadership and Management Style:**
* Gunther believes in giving his team members a lot of freedom and autonomy.
* He trusts his people to know what needs to be done and expects them to come to him when they need his input or support.
* Gunther values honesty and transparency in communication, keeping his team informed about company plans and decisions.
* He acknowledges the difficulty in managing people who may not align with the company's principles and the need to address such situations constructively.
3. **Recruiting the Right People:**
* Gunther's approach to recruitment involves letting his managers and mentors assess candidates' technical skills.
* He conducts final interviews to gauge the character and fit of potential employees within the team.
* Gunther relies on his instincts and gut feeling to make hiring decisions, acknowledging that he sometimes makes mistakes but is willing to address them.
4. **The Importance of Optimism:**
* Gunther believes that optimism is crucial for achieving success.
* He sees failures as opportunities for learning and growth, rather than setbacks.
* Gunther emphasizes the need to stay positive and work towards solutions, even when faced with challenges.
5. **Building Trust and Collaboration:**
* Gunther stresses the importance of trust and transparency in team dynamics.
* He encourages collaboration and mutual respect among team members, even if they may not be close friends.
* Gunther believes that trust allows team members to focus on their jobs and work together towards common goals, rather than wasting energy on internal conflicts.
**Conclusion:**
* Gunther Steiner's journey and insights offer valuable lessons for leaders and aspiring professionals in various industries.
* His emphasis on persistence, honesty, and fostering a positive and collaborative team culture provides a roadmap for achieving high performance and success.
# Podcast Episode Summary: Guenther Steiner's Leadership and Management Insights
## Introduction:
- Guenther Steiner, a renowned motorsports engineer and team manager, shares his insights on leadership, management, and his personal experiences in Formula One racing.
- He emphasizes the significance of open communication, honesty, and fostering strong relationships within the team.
## Key Points:
### 1. Managing Team Dynamics:
- Steiner highlights the importance of maintaining a cohesive team environment where drivers work together to achieve common goals.
- He emphasizes the need for drivers to respect each other on and off the track, avoiding unnecessary conflicts that could hinder the team's performance.
- Steiner describes how he addresses disagreements among drivers, encouraging them to communicate openly and find solutions that benefit the entire team.
### 2. Delivering Bad News:
- Steiner discusses his approach to delivering bad news, emphasizing the importance of being direct and honest while maintaining empathy.
- He believes that delivering bad news promptly allows individuals to process it and move forward, rather than prolonging the uncertainty.
- Steiner acknowledges that not everyone appreciates his directness, but he stands by his belief that it is the most effective way to address difficult situations.
### 3. Building Relationships with Drivers:
- Steiner emphasizes the significance of building strong relationships with drivers, based on trust and mutual respect.
- He believes in open communication and encourages drivers to approach him with any concerns or issues they may have.
- Steiner values honesty and transparency in his interactions with drivers, aiming to create an environment where they feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and opinions.
### 4. Navigating the Modern Driver-Team Principal Relationship:
- Steiner acknowledges that the modern Formula One landscape involves a complex network of individuals surrounding drivers, including managers and advisors.
- He emphasizes the importance of managers acting as facilitators rather than simply delivering messages from drivers to the team.
- Steiner seeks to establish a collaborative relationship with managers, aiming to find solutions that benefit both the driver and the team.
### 5. Balancing Honesty and Kindness:
- Steiner discusses the delicate balance between honesty and kindness in his management style.
- He believes that honesty is essential for building trust and addressing issues effectively.
- However, he also recognizes the need for empathy and understanding, ensuring that his directness does not come across as insensitive or disrespectful.
### 6. Avoiding the Parody of Authenticity:
- Steiner addresses the potential for his authenticity to become a parody, with people expecting him to act in certain ways for entertainment value.
- He emphasizes that his behavior is genuine and not influenced by a desire for attention or validation.
- Steiner encourages individuals to form their own opinions based on their experiences and interactions with him, rather than relying on edited portrayals in the media.
### 7. Watching Drive to Survive:
- Steiner reveals that he does not watch the popular Netflix series Drive to Survive, which offers an inside look into the world of Formula One.
- He explains that watching himself on the show might influence his behavior, leading to a less authentic representation of his true self.
- Steiner believes that Drive to Survive has brought Formula One to a wider audience, but he prefers to focus on his job and allow others to form their own opinions based on their experiences.
### 8. Dealing with Fame:
- Steiner expresses indifference towards his newfound fame, stating that he does not actively seek attention or validation.
- He emphasizes that his focus remains on his work and the success of his team.
- Steiner acknowledges that his wife often points out instances where he may have acted inappropriately, but he does not engage in social media or actively seek feedback from the public.
## Conclusion:
- Guenther Steiner's leadership and management insights provide valuable lessons on fostering team cohesion, delivering difficult news, building strong relationships, and maintaining authenticity in a high-pressure environment.
- His emphasis on honesty, open communication, and empathy highlights the importance of creating a culture of trust and respect within a team.
# Podcast Episode Summary:
In this episode of the High-Performance Podcast, Guenther Steiner, the renowned motorsport engineer and Team Principal of Haas Formula One Team, shares his insights on career, management, and maintaining relationships within a team to drive success.
**Navigating a Career in Racing:**
- Steiner's journey in racing began with a passion for engineering and a desire to work in Formula One.
- He emphasizes the importance of adaptability, embracing different cultures, and learning from various experiences.
- Steiner highlights the value of understanding people's backgrounds and adapting one's communication style to foster effective relationships.
**Management and Leadership Approach:**
- Steiner believes in leading by example and setting clear expectations for his team.
- He emphasizes the significance of honesty, accountability, and hard work as non-negotiable behaviors within the team.
- Steiner acknowledges his impatience as a weakness but recognizes the strength of his determination to achieve goals.
**Balancing Work and Family Life:**
- Steiner acknowledges the challenges of balancing a demanding career with family life.
- He explains that he tries to make up for his absence when he is at home and respects his family's need for privacy.
- Steiner emphasizes the importance of finding ways to minimize the impact of his travel and work schedule on his family.
**Dealing with Loneliness and Pressure:**
- Steiner reflects on the loneliness that comes with being in a leadership position, especially during difficult times.
- He describes the intense emotions he experienced during Romain Grosjean's horrific crash and the pressure to inform his family while ensuring the well-being of the team.
- Steiner highlights the importance of having a support system and finding ways to cope with the emotional toll of leadership.
**Embracing Self-Belief and Patience:**
- Steiner emphasizes the role of self-belief in achieving success, even when faced with challenges and setbacks.
- He explains his approach to securing a super license for Haas Formula One Team, demonstrating his confidence in his abilities.
- Steiner discusses the importance of long-term patience in team building and strategy, while maintaining short-term impatience to drive progress.
**Advice for Aspiring Leaders:**
- Steiner encourages young individuals to be adventurous, take opportunities, and always have a plan B.
- He emphasizes the value of hard work, determination, and perseverance in achieving goals.
- Steiner advises against being afraid of anything and encourages people to embrace challenges.
**Personal Reflections:**
- Steiner shares his belief that his upbringing in a family of entrepreneurs influenced his strong work ethic.
- He reflects on the impact of his father's passing when he was 18 and how it shaped his perspective on life and work.
- Steiner acknowledges that his drive and energy come from his family background and the values instilled in him during his upbringing.
**Defining Hard Work and Time Management:**
- Steiner defines hard work as achieving results and making progress, regardless of the number of hours spent in the office.
- He emphasizes the importance of using time effectively and focusing on productivity rather than long working hours.
- Steiner shares his belief that thinking and strategizing are essential aspects of his work and that he values time for reflection.
**High-Performance Book Recommendation:**
- Steiner recommends the book "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac as a source of inspiration for embracing adventure and pursuing one's passions.
**Final Message for a High-Performance Life:**
- Steiner emphasizes the importance of never giving up and continuing to push forward, even in the face of challenges.
- He encourages individuals to enjoy what they do and find satisfaction in accomplishing tasks, even those that may be unpleasant.
- Steiner stresses the value of perseverance and resilience in achieving a high-performance life.
# Guenther Steiner: A Journey Through Motorsport and Team Management
Guenther Steiner, a renowned motorsport engineer and team manager, shares his remarkable journey in the world of racing in this podcast episode. With over three decades of experience in the field, Guenther has become a respected figure in Formula One and a fan favorite through the popular Netflix series, 'Drive to Survive.'
## Finding His Path in Racing:
Guenther's passion for motorsport began at a young age, leading him to pursue a career in engineering. He started as a mechanic and gradually worked his way up, eventually becoming a team manager. His dedication and expertise have earned him admiration throughout the community.
## Leadership and Team Dynamics:
As a team principal, Guenther emphasizes the importance of creating a supportive and collaborative environment. He believes in fostering open communication and empowering his team members to take ownership of their roles. By nurturing relationships with drivers and teammates, he aims to drive the team forward and achieve success.
## The Emotional Toll of Crashes:
Guenther candidly discusses the emotional toll of witnessing serious crashes involving his team members. He describes the anxiety and helplessness he feels as he watches the wreckage, hoping for the driver to emerge safely. The burden of responsibility weighs heavily on him, and he emphasizes the importance of supporting drivers both physically and emotionally during such traumatic events.
## Insights from His New Book:
Guenther's recently published book, 'Surviving to Drive,' offers a deeper dive into his personal and professional experiences in motorsport. He shares anecdotes, lessons learned, and behind-the-scenes stories that provide a unique perspective on the world of Formula One.
## Live Tour and YouTube Channel:
The High Performance Podcast team is embarking on a live theater tour, with upcoming shows in various cities. Tickets are available for purchase, and fans are encouraged to attend for an immersive and engaging experience. Additionally, all episodes of the podcast are available on YouTube, providing viewers with a visual component to complement the audio content.
## Podcast Highlights:
- Guenther Steiner's journey from mechanic to team manager, showcasing his dedication and expertise in motorsport.
- His approach to leadership, emphasizing open communication, collaboration, and empowering team members.
- The emotional impact of witnessing serious crashes, highlighting the burden of responsibility and the importance of supporting drivers during such events.
- Insights from Guenther's new book, 'Surviving to Drive,' offering a deeper look into his experiences and lessons learned in Formula One.
- Details about the High Performance Podcast live tour and the availability of all episodes on YouTube.
[00:00.000 -> 00:06.560] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey. This is High Performance, the award-winning podcast that reminds you
[00:06.560 -> 00:11.440] that it's within. As always, thank you so much to our listeners right across the world
[00:11.440 -> 00:15.960] who tune in to us every single week so that we can be your armor, we can be your partner,
[00:15.960 -> 00:22.040] we can be your guide in a world that so often feels negative, divisive, and confused. Listen,
[00:22.040 -> 00:29.840] we really want these conversations to remind you of your power, to remind you of your potential, and what you're capable of. So right now, allow myself
[00:29.840 -> 00:35.840] and Professor Damien Hughes to unlock another fascinating mind so that they can be your
[00:35.840 -> 00:41.160] teacher. You might think you know this person from what you've seen on TV, but you're
[00:41.160 -> 00:47.180] about to meet the real person. This is what's in store on today's high performance
[00:47.180 -> 00:48.180] podcast.
[00:48.180 -> 00:52.760] If they've got an opinion, it's fine, but does it anything to me? No, because it isn't
[00:52.760 -> 00:58.160] a parody. And obviously it is maybe hyped up a little bit by writing a book by Netflix
[00:58.160 -> 01:02.480] that they get you in these situations because it has become a little bit, I would almost
[01:02.480 -> 01:08.160] say a trademark, but you know, I'm not in control of it, so I'm not telling them to use it.
[01:09.560 -> 01:12.320] Drivers in a team, if you've got two drivers,
[01:12.400 -> 01:14.360] there doesn't need to be the big friendship,
[01:14.440 -> 01:15.920] they don't need to be big mates.
[01:16.000 -> 01:19.120] I think that is actually on the racetrack counterproductive,
[01:19.200 -> 01:22.600] but there needs to be respect for the job the other one is doing.
[01:23.800 -> 01:27.200] I know if he's not out in the next 20 to 30 seconds, he's not coming out. There's no chance that he comes out, you know, for the job the other one is doing. I know if he's not out in the next 20 to 30 seconds, he's not coming out.
[01:27.480 -> 01:28.840] There's no chance that he comes out.
[01:28.840 -> 01:29.480] You know that.
[01:29.640 -> 01:32.760] When I saw him coming out, he can have a broken leg, a broken hand.
[01:32.880 -> 01:33.720] I mean, he's okay.
[01:33.760 -> 01:38.920] You know, the only thing he needs to survive here, because in my position,
[01:38.920 -> 01:44.200] you know, if this car is on fire and the guy doesn't jump out of it, he will be done.
[01:46.720 -> 01:51.180] fire and the guy doesn't jump out of it, he will be done. So here we go then, Gunther Steiner, the team principal at the Haas Formula One team joining
[01:51.180 -> 01:56.760] us on the High Performance Podcast. And so many of you will know Gunther from Drive to
[01:56.760 -> 02:00.260] Survive which has just taken the world by storm and he's been absolutely the star of
[02:00.260 -> 02:04.540] that show. But do you really know him? Or do you know the things that you've been allowed
[02:04.540 -> 02:09.160] to see? Do you know the caricature? Do you know the swearing? Do you really know
[02:09.160 -> 02:15.000] Gunther Steiner because you're about to? We talk about the challenges of being a leader
[02:15.000 -> 02:18.720] in Formula One. We talk about the loneliness of travelling the world. We talk about the
[02:18.720 -> 02:24.280] challenge of managing drivers. We talk about how you can deliver difficult news. We talk
[02:24.280 -> 02:30.320] about how you can get people to say yes. We discuss Gunther's superpowers. We discuss his failures.
[02:30.320 -> 02:36.640] We discuss his successes. But I promise you, this is the truth about him. This is the truth
[02:36.640 -> 02:42.040] about life in Formula One. This is the truth about being Gunther Steiner, travelling the
[02:42.040 -> 02:45.920] world and in recent years becoming very famous for it.
[02:45.920 -> 02:50.960] How has he dealt with that? You're about to find out. Thanks for joining us for another episode of
[02:50.960 -> 02:56.400] the High Performance Podcast. Here we go then. The team principal of the Haas Formula One team,
[02:56.960 -> 02:57.760] Gunther Steiner.
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[05:17.000 -> 05:18.000] First of all, welcome.
[05:18.000 -> 05:20.000] Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
[05:20.000 -> 05:23.000] What is your definition of high performance, Gunther?
[05:23.000 -> 05:27.440] For me, the biggest thing is the persistence to want to achieve something.
[05:27.440 -> 05:30.000] And then I think the performance comes.
[05:30.000 -> 05:32.320] And I see that in people as well.
[05:32.320 -> 05:37.680] And in myself, I always try, if I want something, I go after it until I get it.
[05:37.680 -> 05:41.920] Okay, so let's talk about that then, because I think lots of people that listen to this podcast,
[05:41.920 -> 05:46.720] they want things, they're desperate for something in their life, but often the behaviors
[05:46.720 -> 05:47.800] don't marry up to that.
[05:47.800 -> 05:50.220] What do you have to sacrifice to be relentless
[05:50.220 -> 05:52.560] in your pursuit of high performance?
[05:52.560 -> 05:54.320] I think you need to give it all,
[05:54.320 -> 05:57.120] and all for everybody, I think it's different
[05:57.120 -> 05:59.560] between different people, but when I say for all,
[05:59.560 -> 06:02.040] you obviously have to look after some things
[06:02.040 -> 06:03.720] in your life, which is your family.
[06:03.720 -> 06:05.880] I think you have got one most important thing,
[06:05.880 -> 06:08.000] what I've got is my family, you know?
[06:08.000 -> 06:10.760] But the rest is just like this persistence
[06:10.760 -> 06:12.280] to achieve something, you know?
[06:12.280 -> 06:15.720] You get up in the morning and you never give up.
[06:15.720 -> 06:18.400] If you want something, you need to go for it.
[06:18.400 -> 06:21.680] And as long as you can say, I tried the best,
[06:21.680 -> 06:23.400] you can fail, but when you say,
[06:23.400 -> 06:25.920] I did the best I could to get there,
[06:25.920 -> 06:27.760] I think you get there, maybe in a different way,
[06:27.760 -> 06:28.800] but you get to something else.
[06:28.800 -> 06:31.760] You know, it is not like if you want to get somewhere
[06:31.760 -> 06:33.840] and you get something else, which maybe is even better,
[06:34.400 -> 06:35.760] you're still on the right track.
[06:35.760 -> 06:38.880] So tell us about the origins of how you discovered
[06:39.520 -> 06:42.720] that passion in yourself to want to be persistent,
[06:42.720 -> 06:45.560] and how can our listeners ask similar
[06:45.560 -> 06:49.920] questions of themselves to discover in their life? I don't remember a moment in
[06:49.920 -> 06:53.360] the life and I discovered it I think it was just a transition at some stage I
[06:53.360 -> 06:58.320] wanted to achieve something and I think I could go back I come my background I
[06:58.320 -> 07:02.360] come from South Tyrol which is in the mountains a beautiful area you know and
[07:02.360 -> 07:06.280] I was having a good life I I have a good family behind me,
[07:06.280 -> 07:09.760] and I always loved racing cars, I start with that one.
[07:09.760 -> 07:13.720] And at the time, I wasn't aware of what I'm actually doing,
[07:13.720 -> 07:15.920] and there is no culture of racing cars
[07:15.920 -> 07:18.320] where I come from, skiing, ice hockey, that's it.
[07:18.320 -> 07:19.840] There is no car race there,
[07:19.840 -> 07:22.360] and none in my family is in car racing,
[07:22.360 -> 07:26.460] and I did my military service, because I had to in Italy.
[07:26.460 -> 07:28.820] And after that one, I wanted to work in racing,
[07:28.820 -> 07:30.460] but I didn't know how to start
[07:30.460 -> 07:31.420] because I didn't know anybody.
[07:31.420 -> 07:33.660] And you know, it was in the 80s, you know,
[07:33.660 -> 07:35.700] and the world was a lot smaller then, you know.
[07:35.700 -> 07:39.340] So, and I just applied for a job,
[07:39.340 -> 07:42.380] which was in a magazine and got the job.
[07:42.380 -> 07:44.900] And I persisted to go into racing because-
[07:44.900 -> 07:45.680] What was the job? I was a mechanic in a magazine and got the job. And I persisted to go into racing because- What was the job?
[07:45.680 -> 07:49.600] Was a mechanic in a rally team. I went to Belgium and I left my home place at 21.
[07:50.240 -> 07:54.640] Now these days, if kids leave at 21, it's pretty normal. But in the 80s,
[07:54.640 -> 07:59.280] especially where I come from, to leave home at that age was something, I wouldn't say special,
[07:59.280 -> 08:03.600] but it was not something a lot of people did. But I wanted to do this. But at the time,
[08:03.600 -> 08:06.360] I wasn't aware that I was persistent in doing this
[08:06.360 -> 08:08.960] because when I drove actually to the interview
[08:08.960 -> 08:12.160] from my place to Belgium, to Brussels, to get an interview,
[08:12.160 -> 08:13.840] because I mean, I wanted this.
[08:13.840 -> 08:15.320] And how far was that?
[08:15.320 -> 08:17.800] That's about 1500 K's.
[08:17.800 -> 08:19.120] You know, it's all across Europe.
[08:19.120 -> 08:21.840] You need to go through Germany and then into Belgium.
[08:21.840 -> 08:23.280] You know, it's a long way away.
[08:23.280 -> 08:25.240] And in the 80s, you know, that is the difference now.
[08:25.360 -> 08:29.900] These days it's nothing, you know, go to Belgium, but there was no cheap airline or nothing, you know,
[08:29.900 -> 08:32.440] there was like you needed to drive or go by train.
[08:32.440 -> 08:37.040] So and but obviously I wasn't aware of that, that is, but when you ask me now that I think
[08:37.200 -> 08:39.740] could be an answer that there where I started to be persistent.
[08:39.800 -> 08:49.520] And what were the kind of messages you were getting from your family and your friends that because you're doing something, as you said, that nobody else was really pursuing?
[08:49.520 -> 08:56.080] My family, my mom, my father passed away already at that time. My mom was very supportive.
[08:56.080 -> 09:01.520] She came from a valley, moved to a city, opened her own business, you know, so she was like,
[09:01.520 -> 09:07.060] yeah, if you want to do this, we support you. And my friends, obviously,
[09:07.060 -> 09:08.920] there is always a lot of doubters, you know that.
[09:08.920 -> 09:10.440] I mean, there is people,
[09:10.440 -> 09:12.600] there is more naysayers than yaysayers in life.
[09:12.600 -> 09:14.840] I mean, I learned that one in my life.
[09:14.840 -> 09:17.040] It's easy to be negative about things.
[09:17.040 -> 09:18.760] It's very difficult to be positive, you know,
[09:18.760 -> 09:20.760] but, and there where you need to be persistent.
[09:20.760 -> 09:23.920] It's just like, don't ignore them, listen what they say,
[09:23.920 -> 09:25.400] but do not take their nay as I'm not gonna do it. to be persistent. It's just like, don't ignore them, listen what they say, but don't not
[09:25.400 -> 09:30.040] take their nay as I'm not going to do it. No, I hear you, but I'm still going where
[09:30.040 -> 09:31.040] I want to go.
[09:31.040 -> 09:34.220] Well, let's talk about management because I think this is what's really interesting
[09:34.220 -> 09:38.960] for people. You know, many people will get a job as a mechanic or, you know, at the low
[09:38.960 -> 09:43.440] down in a business, very few people will end up running it. So let's talk about leadership
[09:43.440 -> 09:46.820] and management. How would you describe your leadership style?
[09:46.820 -> 09:49.480] I give a lot of freedom to people which work for me.
[09:49.480 -> 09:52.380] I pick my people, I don't micromanage.
[09:52.380 -> 09:54.240] I want to know what's going on,
[09:54.240 -> 09:56.180] but that doesn't mean I manage them.
[09:56.180 -> 09:57.520] I just want to know what's going on.
[09:57.520 -> 10:00.400] And normally I find people
[10:00.400 -> 10:02.580] which know exactly how much I need to know.
[10:02.580 -> 10:04.740] I find it sometimes weird how I find these people
[10:04.740 -> 10:07.280] because I don't want them to call me every day,
[10:07.280 -> 10:08.520] tell me what they are doing,
[10:08.520 -> 10:10.720] but they know exactly when they need to call me.
[10:10.720 -> 10:11.840] I give them freedom.
[10:11.840 -> 10:15.520] I trust you to do the job, but if you need me, I'm here.
[10:15.520 -> 10:17.800] But don't call me to tell me what you're doing
[10:17.800 -> 10:20.520] on a daily basis because I know that
[10:20.520 -> 10:21.360] and you should be doing it.
[10:21.360 -> 10:22.680] You don't need to tell me about it
[10:22.680 -> 10:23.880] when you do your job.
[10:23.880 -> 10:26.780] And with Haase F Haas I'm very lucky
[10:26.780 -> 10:29.340] because Mr. Haas is exactly the same for me.
[10:29.340 -> 10:30.800] I don't need to call him up every night
[10:30.800 -> 10:32.380] and tell him this is what I did today.
[10:32.380 -> 10:33.980] He has no interest to hear that.
[10:33.980 -> 10:35.380] He just has interest to hear,
[10:35.380 -> 10:36.980] if I've got an issue, I know he's there
[10:36.980 -> 10:38.660] and I can talk with him about it.
[10:38.660 -> 10:40.260] I give that to my people as well.
[10:40.260 -> 10:41.700] I give them a lot of freedom,
[10:41.700 -> 10:42.980] but they know where the line is,
[10:42.980 -> 10:43.940] where the freedom ends,
[10:43.940 -> 10:45.800] because it goes into something,
[10:45.800 -> 10:47.660] they need my input, but they want it.
[10:47.660 -> 10:49.380] They don't feel like they have to ask me,
[10:49.380 -> 10:50.360] they want to ask me.
[10:50.360 -> 10:52.820] And I always try to do, go that far.
[10:52.820 -> 10:55.100] It's a very strange way to do it,
[10:55.100 -> 10:57.500] and you need the right people to be able to do this.
[10:57.500 -> 10:59.540] See, but that's not an accident,
[10:59.540 -> 11:02.480] as you say, you find people that understand
[11:02.480 -> 11:04.340] how to communicate effectively with you.
[11:04.340 -> 11:08.880] And that's an issue that so many people listening to this will struggle with
[11:08.880 -> 11:12.520] about how to communicate with bosses or people around them.
[11:12.520 -> 11:16.160] So you use that line there that they know where the line is.
[11:16.520 -> 11:20.880] So what are the principles that you do instill as a leader that allow people
[11:20.880 -> 11:23.720] the freedom, yet equally that accountability?
[11:23.840 -> 11:24.680] It's honesty.
[11:24.680 -> 11:25.840] Everything is based on honesty.
[11:25.840 -> 11:29.040] Never tell a lie, or I never tell my people something.
[11:29.040 -> 11:30.680] You know, sometimes in the business,
[11:30.680 -> 11:33.280] you cannot tell everybody what you're planning and what you're doing,
[11:33.280 -> 11:35.360] because, you know, there is something,
[11:35.360 -> 11:37.920] because they are not ripe to communicate.
[11:37.920 -> 11:41.360] But otherwise, I always try to keep them informed
[11:41.360 -> 11:43.120] what we do as a company,
[11:43.120 -> 11:47.560] and that, I think, gives them the line where they know what I am doing, which way I am
[11:47.560 -> 11:48.560] pushing.
[11:48.560 -> 11:52.320] So they just need to bring their, because they normally have a team working for them
[11:52.320 -> 11:53.320] to that level.
[11:53.320 -> 11:59.000] They need to deliver explaining exactly what I want out of them and the team which is working
[11:59.000 -> 12:00.000] for them.
[12:00.000 -> 12:04.000] And then sometimes the biggest struggle I find sometimes that the people, the managers
[12:04.000 -> 12:05.840] I call them now, they report to me,
[12:05.840 -> 12:08.160] they understand that, but they have difficulty
[12:08.160 -> 12:10.840] to give the same thing to the people which work for them.
[12:10.840 -> 12:11.760] You know, to work like this,
[12:11.760 -> 12:13.600] because some tend to micromanage
[12:13.600 -> 12:15.160] because they get scared, you know?
[12:15.160 -> 12:19.960] And that is normally a process where I try to manage them
[12:19.960 -> 12:22.680] to say, you need to give people a little bit more freedom.
[12:22.680 -> 12:26.500] And if they mess it up, you know, then we need to do something, but you need to give them the opportunity bit more freedom. And if they mess it up, then we need to do something,
[12:26.500 -> 12:28.220] but you need to give them the opportunity
[12:28.220 -> 12:29.540] to show that they can do it.
[12:29.540 -> 12:30.740] Don't not do it for them.
[12:30.740 -> 12:33.400] If I have to do my manager's job, why do I employ him?
[12:33.400 -> 12:35.400] It's very simple for me, you know?
[12:35.400 -> 12:37.300] And then the other thing what I live with,
[12:37.300 -> 12:41.460] if you lose somebody, and I learned that from Niki Lauda,
[12:41.460 -> 12:42.720] if you have nobody doing the job,
[12:42.720 -> 12:43.660] you need to do it yourself
[12:43.660 -> 12:45.400] until you find somebody who can do it, you know,
[12:45.400 -> 12:46.360] and you need to jump in.
[12:46.360 -> 12:49.760] And I think I'm a little bit fortunate there in racing.
[12:49.760 -> 12:51.160] I've done a lot of jobs.
[12:51.160 -> 12:53.320] So I'm not as good as the specialists,
[12:53.320 -> 12:56.440] but I can jump in because I can do it at 75%
[12:56.440 -> 12:57.520] of their knowledge, you know,
[12:57.520 -> 12:59.840] and that is good enough over a period of time.
[12:59.840 -> 13:03.280] So how do you deal with people who you bring in,
[13:03.280 -> 13:04.120] you think they're right,
[13:04.120 -> 13:06.340] and it turns out that they're not?
[13:06.340 -> 13:09.280] How do you then manage them?
[13:09.280 -> 13:13.480] First of all, you try to bring them along and to explain them and otherwise, as brutal
[13:13.480 -> 13:15.880] as it sounds, they need to change career.
[13:15.880 -> 13:19.880] Because you cannot, if somebody cannot come along to the principle of how you want to
[13:19.880 -> 13:23.440] work and how the company wants to work, it's not about me, it's about the company.
[13:23.440 -> 13:27.000] If the whole company is set up and you've got one person
[13:27.000 -> 13:29.960] which is not doing what the company expects it to do,
[13:29.960 -> 13:31.960] you have to change and you try to do it in a positive way.
[13:31.960 -> 13:34.560] Obviously, you give first people the chance to align.
[13:34.560 -> 13:35.640] You know, you cannot be brutal
[13:35.640 -> 13:38.600] because sometimes people coming from big corporates
[13:38.600 -> 13:40.820] or big teams like in Formula One,
[13:40.820 -> 13:42.400] they are used to something different.
[13:42.400 -> 13:44.400] And when they come to us, how we work,
[13:44.400 -> 13:45.680] it's a little bit different, you know,
[13:45.680 -> 13:47.280] and you need to give people the chance
[13:47.280 -> 13:49.700] to understand fully how we do.
[13:49.700 -> 13:51.280] It's all about responsibility,
[13:51.280 -> 13:52.880] because if you've got authority,
[13:52.880 -> 13:54.200] you're also responsible for it, you know,
[13:54.200 -> 13:56.040] you cannot say, I make the decisions,
[13:56.040 -> 13:59.120] but you're responsible, that doesn't work for anybody,
[13:59.120 -> 14:00.120] I think, and it shouldn't work,
[14:00.120 -> 14:03.300] because it's failure, it's accepted, you know?
[14:03.300 -> 14:06.480] So I don't do that, but you try to bring them along
[14:06.480 -> 14:09.080] and you work with them, but if people don't like it,
[14:09.080 -> 14:11.760] they normally move on on their own.
[14:11.760 -> 14:14.120] Let's talk about recruiting those people then,
[14:14.120 -> 14:16.680] because I think every business is a recruitment business.
[14:16.680 -> 14:19.280] Before you manage them, you've got to get them in the door.
[14:19.280 -> 14:21.280] What questions do you ask of the people
[14:21.280 -> 14:23.200] that you want to bring into your team
[14:23.200 -> 14:24.480] to make sure they're right?
[14:24.480 -> 14:29.000] How I do normally my recruitment, it's again a strange thing. I do it maybe different than a lot of other people.
[14:29.000 -> 14:37.000] I let my managers and mentors interview the people if they can do, I call it now technically the job, and it doesn't need to be a technical job,
[14:37.000 -> 14:46.160] but if the people are qualified to do the job, and then I actually have a last interview with each of them at Haas F1,
[14:46.160 -> 14:47.960] which doesn't have to last long.
[14:47.960 -> 14:50.960] Some last 15 minutes, some last half an hour,
[14:50.960 -> 14:53.440] because I just want to see their character
[14:53.440 -> 14:55.440] and if they fit into the team,
[14:55.440 -> 14:57.280] what I just explained before.
[14:57.280 -> 14:59.640] And I rarely say, don't not take this guy.
[14:59.640 -> 15:01.800] I just say, if I feel that somebody isn't right,
[15:01.800 -> 15:03.760] I just say, have you checked this and this?
[15:03.760 -> 15:06.580] And then they go back and re-interview them,
[15:06.580 -> 15:08.220] going a little bit deeper.
[15:08.220 -> 15:12.860] And if I had doubts normally, or three quarter of my doubts,
[15:12.860 -> 15:14.900] the other people pick up as well.
[15:14.900 -> 15:17.580] What questions do you ask then in those half an hours?
[15:17.580 -> 15:19.860] I just try to get the character.
[15:19.860 -> 15:22.380] I just ask very simple question, where do you live?
[15:22.380 -> 15:24.260] They need to explain what they did in their life
[15:24.260 -> 15:25.340] before a little bit. I just want to simple question, where do you live? They need to explain what they did in their life before a little bit.
[15:25.340 -> 15:26.880] I just want to hear them talk.
[15:26.880 -> 15:30.040] I can see arrogance, I can see laziness
[15:30.040 -> 15:31.640] when they speak with me.
[15:31.640 -> 15:33.360] If you ask me now, how do you see this,
[15:33.360 -> 15:35.000] describe it, put it on a piece of paper,
[15:35.000 -> 15:36.240] I would struggle to do it.
[15:36.240 -> 15:37.480] It's just a feeling.
[15:37.480 -> 15:38.720] Yeah, it's instinct, yeah.
[15:38.720 -> 15:40.460] I get things wrong as well, honestly.
[15:40.460 -> 15:44.460] I sometimes employ people which didn't work out,
[15:44.460 -> 15:46.960] but then again, I sort that one out myself.
[15:46.960 -> 15:48.280] You know, I stand up and say,
[15:48.280 -> 15:49.480] hey, we need to fix this.
[15:49.480 -> 15:50.440] This is not working.
[15:50.440 -> 15:53.040] I made a mistake, you know, it's as simple as this.
[15:53.040 -> 15:54.400] Reading through your new book,
[15:54.400 -> 15:55.760] which I would recommend anyone to do,
[15:55.760 -> 15:56.960] not just a Formula One fan,
[15:56.960 -> 15:58.360] but anyone that wants to understand more
[15:58.360 -> 16:00.800] about what has been a fascinating life,
[16:00.800 -> 16:01.680] there's a line where you say,
[16:01.680 -> 16:04.560] you're a glass half full kind of idiot.
[16:04.560 -> 16:07.600] What do you think is so important about being an optimist?
[16:07.600 -> 16:09.240] Otherwise, you don't achieve anything.
[16:09.240 -> 16:11.600] How can, as a pessimist, how can you achieve?
[16:11.600 -> 16:16.440] I mean, you achieve something, but you don't achieve something big, in my opinion.
[16:16.440 -> 16:18.640] I always think positive.
[16:18.640 -> 16:23.640] It will work, you know, but I don't hope I make it work, you know, because if you just
[16:23.640 -> 16:24.840] hope, it's not going to happen.
[16:24.840 -> 16:25.880] You need to work at it.
[16:25.880 -> 16:27.960] You cannot just say, oh, this will be fantastic.
[16:27.960 -> 16:31.880] And I think when I see this will work, there is a reason.
[16:31.880 -> 16:34.840] And again, is it maybe instinct, is it positiveness?
[16:34.840 -> 16:38.280] Because you've got very good people which are always negative, and they are still good
[16:38.280 -> 16:39.280] people.
[16:39.280 -> 16:42.720] I think they're still good people, but they just cannot get over that hurdle to say it
[16:42.720 -> 16:43.720] will be okay.
[16:43.720 -> 16:45.640] I don't know if they are scared of it, that it could be a failure, but I to say it will be okay. I don't know if they are scared of it,
[16:45.640 -> 16:47.240] that it could be a failure,
[16:47.240 -> 16:49.440] but I always think it will be good.
[16:49.440 -> 16:50.680] And then if it isn't good,
[16:50.680 -> 16:52.200] I'm gonna sort it out anyway, you know?
[16:52.200 -> 16:53.720] So what's the problem, you know?
[16:53.720 -> 16:56.200] Because if I don't even start, how can I sort it out?
[16:56.200 -> 16:57.420] Because I never get there, you know?
[16:57.420 -> 16:58.880] You say, this is what we are gonna do.
[16:58.880 -> 17:01.980] And if it doesn't happen how I planned it,
[17:01.980 -> 17:04.280] there is always, you can do it a different way.
[17:04.280 -> 17:06.780] Failing, you learn a lot as well in life, in my opinion.
[17:06.780 -> 17:08.720] You know, failing is not something
[17:08.720 -> 17:10.820] people should take as detrimental.
[17:10.820 -> 17:12.940] I failed once, now I cannot do it anymore.
[17:12.940 -> 17:15.460] No, I failed once, I failed more than once, by the way.
[17:15.460 -> 17:16.300] You know?
[17:16.300 -> 17:17.300] What's your biggest failure?
[17:17.300 -> 17:19.700] I don't know, but I think it's more in life,
[17:19.700 -> 17:23.000] that you just didn't get it done how you wanted it,
[17:23.000 -> 17:24.420] but you got something else out of it.
[17:24.420 -> 17:26.600] I mean, that's what I always feel, you know, it's like-
[17:26.600 -> 17:27.800] Like what, for example?
[17:27.800 -> 17:29.440] I sense in your career, it's rich enough
[17:29.440 -> 17:31.320] that there's a really good example there
[17:31.320 -> 17:33.320] that you can offer our listeners.
[17:33.320 -> 17:36.000] Yeah, for example, when I went to Red Bull in Formula One,
[17:36.000 -> 17:37.400] it wasn't what it should have been,
[17:37.400 -> 17:39.920] but then I went to America for Red Bull
[17:39.920 -> 17:41.800] and what came out?
[17:41.800 -> 17:44.720] Haas F1, you know, I'm in a better position than before.
[17:44.720 -> 17:48.040] Tell us the story then of your relationship with Red Bull and what came out, HSF won. You know, I'm in a better position than before. Tell us the story then of your relationship with Red Bull
[17:48.040 -> 17:49.080] and what happened there.
[17:49.080 -> 17:51.320] I mean, I started when they voted.
[17:51.320 -> 17:53.800] I knew Mr. Matiszicz from a long time and I started there
[17:53.800 -> 17:54.800] and it just didn't work.
[17:54.800 -> 17:56.280] The chemistry wasn't there.
[17:56.280 -> 17:59.480] So Mr. Matiszicz asked me if I want to go to the States
[17:59.480 -> 18:00.720] to open up because I-
[18:00.720 -> 18:02.040] Chemistry with who?
[18:02.040 -> 18:04.120] With the management there.
[18:04.120 -> 18:06.760] I mean, I don't want to say persons here,
[18:06.760 -> 18:08.800] you know, we don't go down to names
[18:08.800 -> 18:11.800] and it just didn't work.
[18:11.800 -> 18:13.720] But you have to accept that it doesn't work.
[18:13.720 -> 18:15.800] It didn't hurt me, you know?
[18:15.800 -> 18:18.160] But in the end, I went to the States,
[18:18.160 -> 18:20.840] Mr. Matisz asked me, I did what I did there,
[18:20.840 -> 18:23.080] you know, and I think I was on a good track.
[18:23.080 -> 18:29.360] And then again, there came some problems there from that side and I I said, I'm done, but I'm going to do something different.
[18:29.360 -> 18:33.040] And I stayed in the States to open up my own company. And now we've got that company,
[18:33.040 -> 18:36.880] it's got 200 people. While I was doing that company, I started off with a business plan
[18:36.880 -> 18:41.360] to do Haas F1. I got that one going, and that one is going now. I mean, there is always-
[18:41.360 -> 18:42.400] All because of optimism.
[18:42.400 -> 18:45.000] Exactly. Because I was not like sitting at home,
[18:45.000 -> 18:48.000] dwelling over it because something didn't work out
[18:48.000 -> 18:49.000] as it was planned, you know?
[18:49.000 -> 18:51.000] No, just keep on going, you know?
[18:51.000 -> 18:52.000] It's fine.
[18:52.000 -> 18:53.000] The same at Jaguar.
[18:53.000 -> 18:56.000] When I went to Jaguar, it was a mess when I got there.
[18:56.000 -> 18:59.000] Obviously, I'm not blaming Nikki or me on that one
[18:59.000 -> 19:01.000] because we were not given the time.
[19:01.000 -> 19:02.000] It was too messed up, you know?
[19:02.000 -> 19:06.280] They let Nikki go, and I was offered to stay there.
[19:06.280 -> 19:09.600] I said, I don't really want to stay here with the people I'm around because I don't see
[19:09.600 -> 19:10.760] I can be successful.
[19:10.760 -> 19:11.920] I rather move on.
[19:11.920 -> 19:16.440] And I moved on, and I decided myself instead of just staying somewhere to have a job, you
[19:16.440 -> 19:22.400] need to say, hey, it was fine, I learned a lot, I've got a lot of possibilities, I just
[19:22.400 -> 19:23.400] move on.
[19:23.400 -> 19:29.920] I don't force myself to do something. And I was a little bit lucky, I think, in my life in general, that I always had the
[19:29.920 -> 19:30.920] job I like to do.
[19:30.920 -> 19:32.720] I never kept a job I didn't like.
[19:32.720 -> 19:36.360] Either I was moved or I move, you know, both ways.
[19:36.360 -> 19:40.440] I'm not saying that it was always my choice, but I never regretted it, even if I was moved,
[19:40.440 -> 19:41.440] because it was the right thing to do.
[19:41.440 -> 19:44.640] Steve McLaughlin So can we explore those two examples you offered
[19:44.640 -> 19:48.200] there about you described the chemistry at Red Bull wasn't great,
[19:48.200 -> 19:53.500] then you described the Jaguar experience of you didn't feel you could be successful.
[19:53.500 -> 19:59.500] What are the qualities, the traits, the characteristics of a team that you feel need to be successful?
[19:59.500 -> 20:02.000] You always need to be transparent and honest.
[20:02.000 -> 20:06.400] That is what you need, you know, and if you don't have that trust in other people,
[20:06.400 -> 20:07.240] you better move on.
[20:07.240 -> 20:08.060] That's my opinion.
[20:08.060 -> 20:10.640] Because then you're always just fighting your own,
[20:10.640 -> 20:11.960] what I call your own team.
[20:11.960 -> 20:14.000] And in any, anywhere competitive,
[20:14.000 -> 20:15.680] what you need to fight is the other ones.
[20:15.680 -> 20:16.920] I mean, now fight in a good way.
[20:16.920 -> 20:19.040] I mean, you know, not punching each other
[20:19.040 -> 20:21.160] or shooting each other, but fighting on,
[20:21.160 -> 20:22.880] in racing, on the track.
[20:22.880 -> 20:25.640] That is where your energy needs to go,
[20:25.640 -> 20:28.800] not internal energy, who is who and who is doing what.
[20:28.800 -> 20:33.200] So you use that word trust there that so many of our guests
[20:33.200 -> 20:35.880] that we've had on this podcast have spoken about being
[20:35.880 -> 20:40.440] the magic ingredient of a high performing team or culture.
[20:40.440 -> 20:45.000] Beyond honesty and transparency that we've heard you share,
[20:45.000 -> 20:48.200] how do you go about engendering and fostering trust
[20:48.200 -> 20:50.920] in a team that allows it to flourish?
[20:50.920 -> 20:52.560] Sometimes it's not easy.
[20:52.560 -> 20:54.400] I mean, it's a good question how you do it,
[20:54.400 -> 20:56.520] but I think you need to lead by example.
[20:56.520 -> 20:58.760] And when you see in your team, you have got, for example,
[20:58.760 -> 21:00.680] I've got about eight direct reports.
[21:00.680 -> 21:03.720] Do they all work perfectly together between them?
[21:03.720 -> 21:07.920] Maybe not, but you just jump in if you have to fix something.
[21:07.920 -> 21:10.720] You know, you have got two good people there.
[21:10.720 -> 21:14.240] You don't want to lose either, but between them, they then get on.
[21:14.240 -> 21:19.160] I always try to find a way that they collaborate, that at least they don't fight each other,
[21:19.160 -> 21:21.800] you know, that at least they work with each other.
[21:21.800 -> 21:23.080] They don't need to be the best friends.
[21:23.080 -> 21:25.640] And I say this always for drivers,
[21:25.640 -> 21:28.480] drivers in a team, if you've got two drivers,
[21:28.480 -> 21:30.720] there doesn't need to be the big friendship.
[21:30.720 -> 21:32.040] They don't need to be big mates.
[21:32.040 -> 21:35.360] I think that is actually on the racetrack counterproductive
[21:35.360 -> 21:38.080] because both get lazy, you know, because they're big mates,
[21:38.080 -> 21:40.100] but there needs to be respect, you know,
[21:40.100 -> 21:41.720] for the job the other one is doing.
[21:41.720 -> 21:43.640] You know, there needs to always to be trust
[21:43.640 -> 21:45.680] between and the same as in management.
[21:45.680 -> 21:48.240] If you can trust, if you don't like the guy you work with
[21:48.240 -> 21:52.080] for different reasons, because there is millions of reasons
[21:52.080 -> 21:54.880] why you could not like a person or not like,
[21:54.880 -> 21:57.680] or just not be a perfect match, you know,
[21:57.680 -> 22:00.760] but you still trust him that he can do his job right.
[22:00.760 -> 22:02.600] You know, and that's good enough for me.
[22:02.600 -> 22:05.200] And you just need to keep a closer eye on that.
[22:05.200 -> 22:10.080] So Christian Horner, when we had him on, gave us a great example with his two drivers that were at
[22:10.080 -> 22:16.640] Loggerhead and he arranged for them to have a team meeting in a room at the Great Ormond Street
[22:16.640 -> 22:23.040] Hospital. And his rationale was that the drivers had to go meet the sick children that morning
[22:23.040 -> 22:26.000] before they came in. So they came into thatfordd a allwch chi ddod o'r ffordd a'r technigau y gallwch chi rannu ar y ffordd y byddwch chi'n deall
[22:26.000 -> 22:28.000] gyda'r cyd-difficiolion?
[22:28.000 -> 22:30.000] Rwy'n hoffi'r idea o'ch bod chi'n dda ennill
[22:30.000 -> 22:32.000] i'w gweithredu
[22:32.000 -> 22:34.000] ac i'w gweithredu
[22:34.000 -> 22:36.000] yn y cyfansodau.
[22:36.000 -> 22:38.000] Mae'n ddiddorol iawn
[22:38.000 -> 22:40.000] i'r cyhoedd,
[22:40.000 -> 22:42.000] ond mae'n ddiddorol iawn
[22:42.000 -> 22:44.000] i'r cyhoedd,
[22:44.000 -> 22:45.760] ond mae'n ddiddorol iawn i'r cyhoedd, What sort of tips and techniques could you share about how you deal with difficulties?
[22:45.760 -> 22:51.360] I love the idea of you being close enough to intervene and work with them.
[22:51.360 -> 22:55.000] Give us some practical tips on how our listeners could do that.
[22:55.000 -> 22:57.320] I think what Christian did there is, I mean, I never thought about this,
[22:57.320 -> 23:00.360] it's a great idea because sometimes we need to remember
[23:00.360 -> 23:02.600] that we are actually privileged people, you know,
[23:02.600 -> 23:05.500] and it's a good come down to come together.
[23:05.500 -> 23:06.980] You know, I think I never heard this,
[23:06.980 -> 23:09.980] but I think it's a good way to do it.
[23:09.980 -> 23:10.860] I give you an example.
[23:10.860 -> 23:12.020] I had two drivers before,
[23:12.020 -> 23:14.020] they crashed into each other every time.
[23:14.020 -> 23:16.060] And at some stage, I actually got sick of it.
[23:16.060 -> 23:17.580] And I just sat them down and said,
[23:17.580 -> 23:20.100] guys, I cannot tell you how to race
[23:20.100 -> 23:21.700] because I'm not sitting in the car.
[23:21.700 -> 23:23.340] You need to sort that one out.
[23:23.340 -> 23:26.560] But could you come together between you two
[23:26.560 -> 23:28.680] to find an agreement, not even gentlemen,
[23:28.680 -> 23:29.600] just find an agreement,
[23:29.600 -> 23:31.360] doesn't need to be a gentleman agreement,
[23:31.360 -> 23:32.640] how you're competing,
[23:32.640 -> 23:35.960] because otherwise you two will be losing out both of you.
[23:35.960 -> 23:38.280] You know, because I need to make some changes otherwise,
[23:38.280 -> 23:40.480] because this is not sustainable for the team,
[23:40.480 -> 23:41.320] what you're doing, you know,
[23:41.320 -> 23:43.600] because it's not you guys missing out,
[23:43.600 -> 23:45.500] it's the whole team missing out, trying to make them understand that everybody in the team is you're doing, you know, because it's not you guys missing out, it's the whole team missing out,
[23:45.500 -> 23:48.120] trying to make them understand that everybody in the team
[23:48.120 -> 23:50.240] is looking up to them, and if they mess it up,
[23:50.240 -> 23:51.800] they're saying, why should we work hard
[23:51.800 -> 23:54.940] if then these two guys cannot figure out between them
[23:54.940 -> 23:57.000] not to crash into each other?
[23:57.000 -> 23:58.720] Why was that happening, do you think?
[23:58.720 -> 24:00.440] You know race car drivers,
[24:00.440 -> 24:03.760] the teammate is their first opponent, you know,
[24:03.760 -> 24:05.640] that they want to beat him first.
[24:05.640 -> 24:07.800] And maybe it happened because there was too much pressure
[24:07.800 -> 24:09.320] onto them, but by me telling them,
[24:09.320 -> 24:10.640] there's no need to do this,
[24:10.640 -> 24:13.320] but I think they both wanted to show who is the better one.
[24:13.320 -> 24:15.680] As simple as this, sometimes things are very simple,
[24:15.680 -> 24:18.520] you know, and race car drivers sometimes are very simple.
[24:18.520 -> 24:20.640] And I just told them, guys,
[24:20.640 -> 24:23.320] I'm done with talking with you before each race,
[24:23.320 -> 24:25.560] because, I mean, I'm not at the start.
[24:25.560 -> 24:26.860] I cannot influence anymore.
[24:26.860 -> 24:30.680] You need to understand that this guy with the same car as you, the same colors as you
[24:30.680 -> 24:33.820] have got, is the guy to avoid to crash into.
[24:33.820 -> 24:38.160] It obviously can happen in a start situation in Formula One that you crash into each other,
[24:38.160 -> 24:41.360] but not when you're out there racing for seven, eight corners.
[24:41.360 -> 24:43.940] You need to find a way to coexist, you know?
[24:43.940 -> 24:45.280] And we as a team will support
[24:45.280 -> 24:49.200] you because if somebody gets an advantage, we will give the advantage back. I explained that as well,
[24:49.200 -> 24:54.160] but it's just like trying to make them aware that they are just part of a team. They are not racing
[24:54.160 -> 24:58.160] for themselves. They are racing for the team. You know, it's the same, like we said before with the
[24:58.160 -> 25:02.320] managers. If they don't work together, if they don't have the respect of each other, they are
[25:02.320 -> 25:06.680] counterproductive and we waste energy in the team if they fight.
[25:06.680 -> 25:08.660] And what happened in that situation?
[25:08.660 -> 25:11.560] They found a way to coexist and they sat down together
[25:11.560 -> 25:14.240] and I said, guys, I don't want to tell you what to do.
[25:14.240 -> 25:17.520] You two need to know and tell each other
[25:17.520 -> 25:18.480] what you're gonna do,
[25:18.480 -> 25:20.600] because I'm not a race car driver, I'm sorry.
[25:20.600 -> 25:22.600] I can tell you what I expect from the team,
[25:22.600 -> 25:24.720] but how are you gonna do it at the racetrack?
[25:24.720 -> 25:27.480] I cannot say if you are in front of me at turn seven,
[25:27.480 -> 25:29.920] I go in, I mean, that's not my job, you know,
[25:29.920 -> 25:32.520] because I'm not going at 300 Ks per hour.
[25:32.520 -> 25:35.360] You know, you need to find that yourself.
[25:35.360 -> 25:36.760] Can we talk about Mick Schumacher?
[25:36.760 -> 25:37.600] Yeah.
[25:37.600 -> 25:38.680] Because that was a very different situation.
[25:38.680 -> 25:40.200] He wasn't crashing into a teammate,
[25:40.200 -> 25:42.280] but he was regularly finding the wall
[25:42.280 -> 25:44.920] or causing a lot of damage to the car.
[25:44.920 -> 25:48.720] And then when you didn't retain him at the team, I saw, you know, as you did as well,
[25:48.720 -> 25:52.080] I'm sure a lot of the criticism on social media that he wasn't supported enough,
[25:52.080 -> 25:54.560] he wasn't helped enough, he wasn't managed or guided enough.
[25:55.200 -> 26:01.200] Would you really just share with us what you did with him to try and solve that problem?
[26:01.200 -> 26:05.920] I think a relationship depends on two people. I cannot make a relationship work
[26:05.920 -> 26:07.660] if you don't want to have a relationship with me.
[26:07.660 -> 26:09.760] I don't think he didn't want a relationship.
[26:09.760 -> 26:11.960] I honestly think he didn't know any better.
[26:11.960 -> 26:14.360] You know, he's very young still, you know,
[26:14.360 -> 26:18.680] and I wouldn't say that I'm a easy character as a person.
[26:18.680 -> 26:21.040] I would never classify myself as easy.
[26:21.040 -> 26:23.760] I'm pretty tough, but I'm very fair,
[26:23.760 -> 26:27.480] and some people cannot deal with that or have difficulty to understand that.
[26:27.480 -> 26:31.640] I'm not saying something with always something in the back of my mind to do different.
[26:31.640 -> 26:33.280] No, I'm sometimes straight out.
[26:33.280 -> 26:35.120] I tell you what I think.
[26:35.120 -> 26:36.120] If you like it, fine.
[26:36.120 -> 26:37.680] If you don't like it, still fine.
[26:37.680 -> 26:38.680] I can agree to disagree.
[26:38.680 -> 26:39.880] I have no problem.
[26:39.880 -> 26:41.720] And I've got that a lot with drivers.
[26:41.720 -> 26:46.520] I think our relationship was okay, but with hindsight, I'm one of them.
[26:46.520 -> 26:51.120] I could have done things better, and I think he could have done things better, and I don't
[26:51.120 -> 26:52.560] want to blame him for this.
[26:52.560 -> 26:56.400] It's just like sometimes you don't click, but then being critiqued by people, how I
[26:56.400 -> 27:00.600] should do my job, it's like, okay, I'm doing this quite a while now.
[27:00.600 -> 27:01.600] I've got my way.
[27:01.600 -> 27:05.320] You have got yours, but not one needs to be right and one wrong.
[27:05.320 -> 27:08.040] It can be different because if you look in the business world,
[27:08.040 -> 27:10.880] in the racing world, there is a lot of different characters
[27:10.880 -> 27:12.360] and different styles having success.
[27:12.360 -> 27:14.480] You know, there's not one recipe for success,
[27:14.480 -> 27:15.680] otherwise it would be too easy.
[27:15.680 -> 27:18.080] There was a couple of lines in your book about Mick
[27:18.080 -> 27:19.560] that I'd love to go into a bit more detail.
[27:19.560 -> 27:21.000] I want to know how you dealt with these.
[27:21.000 -> 27:23.600] You said that he said he was a team player,
[27:23.600 -> 27:27.000] but you questioned whether he truly was.
[27:27.000 -> 27:29.480] And then you said he tries to play mind games as well.
[27:29.480 -> 27:32.240] Can you give us more information on those two?
[27:32.240 -> 27:34.600] I think I don't want to go too deep
[27:34.600 -> 27:36.440] because then we got the counter reaction.
[27:36.440 -> 27:38.880] I mean, I'm very honest here of him, you know,
[27:38.880 -> 27:41.560] but there is always, I felt sometimes,
[27:41.560 -> 27:44.440] you didn't get the full story when he said something.
[27:44.440 -> 27:45.480] That was my feeling.
[27:45.480 -> 27:46.440] Can I prove it?
[27:46.440 -> 27:49.560] Maybe not, but I have to say that to the people
[27:49.560 -> 27:52.120] so at least they know that there could be something.
[27:52.120 -> 27:55.000] And as I said, I think he tries to, I think.
[27:55.000 -> 27:57.400] When I say I think, it doesn't mean I know.
[27:57.400 -> 27:59.880] I don't want to go into any particularly occasion
[27:59.880 -> 28:03.120] because then it seems like water under the bridge now
[28:03.120 -> 28:05.520] and then we just start a conversation
[28:05.520 -> 28:08.560] because I don't wish Mick any bad things in life
[28:08.560 -> 28:10.200] because I think he's a nice kid, you know,
[28:10.200 -> 28:11.920] and I really hope that it works better
[28:11.920 -> 28:13.240] for him somewhere else, you know.
[28:13.240 -> 28:15.720] I think we had two years, they were not fantastic,
[28:15.720 -> 28:17.560] but they were not bad at all
[28:17.560 -> 28:20.040] because he got the opportunity two years to drive in F1,
[28:20.040 -> 28:22.360] you know, with us, and I think it wasn't all bad.
[28:22.360 -> 28:24.360] I always go back to when I was critiqued,
[28:24.360 -> 28:26.760] you don't get anything out of Mick, how you manage him.
[28:26.760 -> 28:28.920] When he get points, nobody said, oh, he got points now.
[28:28.920 -> 28:30.800] That is because how you managed him, you know?
[28:30.800 -> 28:32.400] And I don't want that, I don't need that.
[28:32.400 -> 28:34.120] But it's like the same people, you know,
[28:34.120 -> 28:35.680] they just see always the negative,
[28:35.680 -> 28:37.600] but going back to negativity.
[28:37.600 -> 28:39.880] I was happy for Mick that he got points,
[28:39.880 -> 28:42.600] that his confidence came back, you know?
[28:42.600 -> 28:46.360] That is because I'm the first ones who want him performing
[28:46.360 -> 28:51.440] because he's part of the team and me being blamed, I don't want him to perform. It's,
[28:51.440 -> 28:56.280] I actually call it pretty stupid, you know, because I run a team and Mick is a big part
[28:56.280 -> 29:01.120] of the team. So my biggest wish is that he performs. So it's, it's not difficult to understand.
[29:01.120 -> 29:05.200] It's very interesting though, this, because we talk often on this podcast about
[29:05.200 -> 29:09.360] we live in a world now of opinion, as you see, with the rise of sort of
[29:09.360 -> 29:12.800] social media anger, particularly around Formula One,
[29:12.800 -> 29:16.160] whereas we often talk about empathy, you know, if you can find an understanding,
[29:16.160 -> 29:19.760] find common ground with someone, understand the life they've lived,
[29:19.760 -> 29:24.720] and I wonder whether a bit of that, maybe that shield or that barrier that Mick has,
[29:24.720 -> 29:29.640] or had, is perhaps because of the name on the car, like, is because he's a Schumacher, because
[29:29.640 -> 29:33.440] he's grown up in the spotlight and the glare and they're naturally a very private family.
[29:33.440 -> 29:38.400] I wonder whether, like, you are just, like, you describe yourself as searingly honest
[29:38.400 -> 29:40.760] and dangerously forthright, right?
[29:40.760 -> 29:42.120] Not everyone can be that, can they?
[29:42.120 -> 29:46.500] Some people have to protect themselves by having a barrier in front of them, and maybe
[29:46.500 -> 29:47.840] that was the situation there.
[29:47.840 -> 29:51.920] Absolutely, you could be right, because I mean, having that name is a curse and a blessing.
[29:51.920 -> 29:55.360] You know, it's not only a blessing, you know, there is also negative things coming with
[29:55.360 -> 29:58.440] it if you are born into something like this.
[29:58.440 -> 30:02.660] And I think that is part of it, because he never was used to this openness, you know,
[30:02.660 -> 30:06.300] because he always had to put, or was told to put a shield up, you know,
[30:06.300 -> 30:11.200] because of his name and the history of his father.
[30:11.200 -> 30:14.860] So can I ask you about what jumps out for me in your book,
[30:14.860 -> 30:17.060] because I think it's a superpower that you have
[30:17.060 -> 30:19.660] that I think you can teach the rest of us,
[30:19.660 -> 30:23.140] is the ability to deliver bad news to people.
[30:23.140 -> 30:26.640] You describe it as something that you're incredibly good at.
[30:26.640 -> 30:28.160] I wouldn't say that I like to do it.
[30:28.160 -> 30:31.160] I wouldn't say that I'm particularly good at.
[30:31.160 -> 30:33.120] I'm very honest about it.
[30:33.120 -> 30:35.560] I'm not afraid to deliver bad news, you know?
[30:35.560 -> 30:37.440] And sometimes a lot of people say,
[30:37.440 -> 30:39.880] a lot, some people say I'm too direct,
[30:39.880 -> 30:42.440] but I think sometimes the directness helps
[30:42.440 -> 30:43.400] because you get over it.
[30:43.400 -> 30:48.160] Because if you have to deliver bad news in little bits and pieces, it just drags out
[30:48.160 -> 30:50.720] the process and you feel bad over a period of time.
[30:50.720 -> 30:54.200] If you get hit with that, you get hit and you deal with that, you know, and then you
[30:54.200 -> 30:56.840] can ask for help if you get hit with bad news, you know.
[30:56.840 -> 30:57.960] That's what I always see it.
[30:57.960 -> 31:03.840] And I wouldn't say that it's always perfect because as we just discussed here, not everybody's
[31:03.840 -> 31:06.480] the same in getting bad or good news, you know.
[31:06.480 -> 31:11.920] I just cannot bring myself to not delivering bad news because I'm afraid of it.
[31:11.920 -> 31:13.120] I mean, I have to do it.
[31:13.120 -> 31:16.840] I do it in the best way possible, but also a very short period of time.
[31:16.840 -> 31:17.840] You have to learn that.
[31:17.840 -> 31:21.960] I mean, I really struggle with delivering bad news because I think too much about how
[31:21.960 -> 31:23.200] the other person will feel.
[31:23.200 -> 31:26.320] And actually, nine times out of 10, when you do deliver the bad news,
[31:26.320 -> 31:29.280] it's not as bad as you think it's going to be, you know?
[31:29.280 -> 31:32.400] Absolutely correct. I think sometimes if you overthink it,
[31:32.400 -> 31:34.960] and that's why I try to do it quick, because you overthink it,
[31:34.960 -> 31:37.920] then you drag it on and it actually gets worse for the person.
[31:37.920 -> 31:41.280] That's what I always feel, because if somebody has to tell me bad news,
[31:42.240 -> 31:45.520] tell me and I can deal with it, but don't tell me a little bit,
[31:45.520 -> 31:48.000] and then I'm like, is it bad or is it not bad?
[31:48.000 -> 31:50.400] I know that not everybody thinks the same as me,
[31:50.400 -> 31:53.000] but I'm not afraid of bad news, you know?
[31:53.000 -> 31:55.040] I don't like them, but I'm not afraid
[31:55.040 -> 31:57.440] because then you have the chance to do something different
[31:57.440 -> 31:58.600] or do something against it.
[31:58.600 -> 31:59.880] If somebody doesn't perform,
[31:59.880 -> 32:01.600] you rather tell him you don't perform
[32:01.600 -> 32:03.760] than saying, I don't really know if you perform or not.
[32:03.760 -> 32:08.380] And then when it comes to it, when I made my mind up, I go to the people
[32:08.380 -> 32:12.860] direct. When you are thinking about it, what to say, I think it, I'm not
[32:12.860 -> 32:18.240] brutal with it, but once the mind is made up where I want to go, or the company
[32:18.240 -> 32:21.980] wants to go, because it's not about me, it's about the team, I need to tell the people
[32:21.980 -> 32:25.040] honestly why, and try to explain it to them as well.
[32:25.040 -> 32:29.640] So can you give us a good example of the best delivery of bad news that you've ever done?
[32:29.640 -> 32:35.360] I don't know if it's the best one. It's one when I had to let Kevin and Romain go in
[32:36.960 -> 32:43.320] 2020 I think it was, you know, it wasn't nice because they became my friends as well, but I was two phone calls which
[32:43.920 -> 32:46.100] Not even person to person,
[32:46.100 -> 32:47.560] and I was just like, guys.
[32:47.560 -> 32:48.400] How did you deliver it?
[32:48.400 -> 32:49.440] What did you say?
[32:49.440 -> 32:52.000] I just told them, guys, I need to change
[32:52.000 -> 32:54.200] because the circumstances in the teams have changed.
[32:54.200 -> 32:57.840] And this is nothing against you personal guys,
[32:57.840 -> 33:00.000] because you have both delivered what we wanted,
[33:00.000 -> 33:02.480] but going forward, we need something different,
[33:02.480 -> 33:06.060] for commercial reasons, we need to make a change.
[33:06.060 -> 33:07.540] And then I said,
[33:07.540 -> 33:09.260] and maybe you don't want to be here next year
[33:09.260 -> 33:10.720] because we don't develop the car.
[33:10.720 -> 33:12.500] So I said, you're struggling already this year
[33:12.500 -> 33:14.620] where we have no developments in 2020,
[33:14.620 -> 33:16.100] it will be better in 21.
[33:16.100 -> 33:19.620] Actually, I think it's getting worse in 21.
[33:19.620 -> 33:20.820] And how did they take the news?
[33:20.820 -> 33:23.460] Did they ask you to reconsider or?
[33:23.460 -> 33:26.720] They knew the decision was made.
[33:31.600 -> 33:36.880] They both know me very well as my character. And again, I wasn't like, you know, trying to debate it because once the decision is made, why would I go and debate it? Because then they, at least I
[33:36.880 -> 33:40.640] gave them the news and they can then think what they're going to do next. Maybe there's other
[33:40.640 -> 33:44.480] opportunities for them. I see it always a little bit as well, you know.
[33:44.480 -> 33:46.640] And then you decided to bring Kevin back into the team.
[33:46.640 -> 33:47.200] Yeah.
[33:47.200 -> 33:48.880] What was the thinking behind that?
[33:48.880 -> 33:51.760] It's just because we knew him and we had only two weeks to go.
[33:51.760 -> 33:54.000] And as I said, we were very happy in 2020.
[33:54.000 -> 33:55.520] It's just like he didn't fit anymore
[33:55.520 -> 34:00.080] because the whole team's finances changed and everything changed.
[34:00.080 -> 34:03.120] You know, he wasn't sustainable, not because of his driving,
[34:03.120 -> 34:07.340] because we needed something different commercially.
[34:07.340 -> 34:08.880] So to bring him back in,
[34:08.880 -> 34:10.440] because we had a good relationship before
[34:10.440 -> 34:13.480] and we knew he knows the team, we know him,
[34:13.480 -> 34:14.980] which is always an advantage,
[34:14.980 -> 34:16.280] if you're happy with somebody.
[34:16.280 -> 34:19.240] But that is the thing, once I let them go, these two guys,
[34:19.240 -> 34:22.040] we were still on speaking terms afterwards.
[34:22.040 -> 34:23.960] Do I speak a lot with Romain now?
[34:23.960 -> 34:27.280] No, but I, for example, saw him in February in Daytona
[34:27.280 -> 34:29.920] and we had a chat, I mean, obviously Romain is not happy
[34:29.920 -> 34:31.760] because I called Kevin back and not him,
[34:31.760 -> 34:33.840] but that doesn't mean that he's upset with me, you know,
[34:33.840 -> 34:35.880] we still speak, you know, we're still talking.
[34:35.880 -> 34:38.120] And I think, as I said to you before,
[34:38.120 -> 34:39.440] some people, when I was like,
[34:39.440 -> 34:41.980] oh, I'm not getting upset about it, I just move on.
[34:41.980 -> 34:42.880] You do something different.
[34:42.880 -> 34:45.360] And I think Romain now moved to the United States.
[34:45.360 -> 34:47.860] He apparently is happy as he can be.
[34:47.860 -> 34:50.120] You know, one door closes, another one opens.
[34:50.120 -> 34:53.120] You know, one door closes, another one opens.
[34:53.120 -> 34:55.500] You know, one door closes, another one opens.
[34:55.500 -> 34:58.080] Fred Meyer always gives you savings and rewards
[34:58.080 -> 35:00.080] on top of our lower than low prices.
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[37:12.880 -> 37:18.320] Give us an insight into the modern relationship between a team principal of a Formula One team and a driver because you know I grew up watching the sport when it really felt like you know Eddie
[37:18.320 -> 37:23.440] Jordan for example had a close connection with the driver or you know David Coulthard had a
[37:23.440 -> 37:25.040] personal relationship with the people who he was driving Coulthard had a personal relationship with
[37:25.040 -> 37:28.560] the people who he was driving for. It now feels like there's so many people around
[37:28.560 -> 37:32.320] these Formula One drivers. I'm just interested in how you navigate that.
[37:33.600 -> 37:37.760] I think you're right. In the old days it was a lot more but we see each other so much now with
[37:37.760 -> 37:43.440] 23 or 24 races how many there are. So in between the races I mean with Kevin for example I spoke
[37:43.440 -> 37:46.320] with him on Friday I called him up because I needed to ask him something,
[37:46.320 -> 37:48.560] you know, completely out of race,
[37:48.560 -> 37:50.360] not completely out of racing, to do with racing,
[37:50.360 -> 37:51.360] but obviously because otherwise
[37:51.360 -> 37:52.480] I have nothing to speak with him about.
[37:52.480 -> 37:54.640] But I always say, guys, if you need something,
[37:54.640 -> 37:56.400] just call me up, it's no problem, or text me,
[37:56.400 -> 37:57.600] you know, we have got a relationship.
[37:57.600 -> 37:58.920] But on the race weekend,
[37:58.920 -> 38:00.360] if I see one of the drivers sitting there
[38:00.360 -> 38:01.640] and I have got 10 minutes,
[38:01.640 -> 38:04.160] I just sit down with him and have a chat very informal,
[38:04.160 -> 38:08.680] you know, but we get on very well, but we are not sticking together maybe like in the
[38:08.680 -> 38:11.040] old days when it got very friendly.
[38:11.040 -> 38:17.020] But as I said, I've got a good relationship with most of the drivers I worked with.
[38:17.020 -> 38:24.000] But Nico, I haven't spoken with him since the last race, for example, but during the
[38:24.000 -> 38:27.520] race weekend, we had actually a lot of opportunities to chat in Australia.
[38:27.520 -> 38:31.000] So it's no point that I call him up asking about a lot of nothing,
[38:31.000 -> 38:33.440] because he has got better things to do and I've got better things to do.
[38:33.440 -> 38:35.680] So as long as that trust is there,
[38:35.680 -> 38:38.040] it's not about the quantity time,
[38:38.040 -> 38:40.480] it's about the quality time you spend with these guys.
[38:40.480 -> 38:44.160] Do you sometimes feel that you're kind of on your own
[38:44.160 -> 38:46.000] trying to manage these situations?
[38:46.000 -> 38:49.720] Because there's a moment in your book where you say that, you know, lots of drivers now
[38:49.720 -> 38:51.800] are surrounded by yes people.
[38:51.800 -> 38:55.400] So those people are around telling them they're doing brilliantly all the time, and you're
[38:55.400 -> 38:57.240] the only one trying to give them bad news.
[38:57.240 -> 39:02.040] Their managers are puffing them up and building them up when they should also be helping to
[39:02.040 -> 39:05.280] actually manage them rather than just make them feel great.
[39:05.280 -> 39:07.760] Yes, and how I confront that,
[39:07.760 -> 39:09.320] I try to speak with their managers
[39:09.320 -> 39:10.600] or the person close to him,
[39:10.600 -> 39:14.560] and just to try to explain how as a team we work.
[39:14.560 -> 39:18.200] They are not there just to be a megaphone for the driver.
[39:18.200 -> 39:20.480] They need to help the team and the driver
[39:20.480 -> 39:21.520] to find a compromise.
[39:21.520 -> 39:24.440] That was manager means in my world.
[39:24.440 -> 39:25.680] A manager needs to find a solution. A manager is not in my world. A manager needs to find a
[39:25.680 -> 39:30.480] solution. A manager is not just like, oh, the driver doesn't want to do this, so I go and tell
[39:30.480 -> 39:34.560] Gunther or whoever he doesn't want to do that. That's not good enough. That's not a manager.
[39:34.560 -> 39:39.920] That is just a messenger. And they need to find a solution. If they say, hey, he cannot do this and
[39:39.920 -> 39:44.720] this at this and this time or day or whatever, can we do it another? He needs to find solutions.
[39:44.720 -> 39:46.000] He's the driver's manager,
[39:46.000 -> 39:49.080] and that's what I always try to explain to them as well
[39:49.080 -> 39:51.440] to do, and most of the guys get it.
[39:51.440 -> 39:52.840] Do we achieve it all the time?
[39:52.840 -> 39:53.920] No, we are not perfect,
[39:53.920 -> 39:56.400] but that is how I try to manage that one.
[39:56.400 -> 39:59.800] There is situations, it's a hectic schedule for them,
[39:59.800 -> 40:00.760] for example, on the weekend,
[40:00.760 -> 40:02.840] and if there is an issue with something,
[40:02.840 -> 40:04.680] I go and speak directly with the driver.
[40:04.680 -> 40:05.800] I'm not afraid of, or if they have got something, I go and speak directly with the driver. I'm not afraid of it.
[40:05.800 -> 40:07.360] Or if they have got something, you know,
[40:07.360 -> 40:09.280] they want to speak and they come direct to me.
[40:09.280 -> 40:10.640] You know, in the commercial world,
[40:10.640 -> 40:13.760] they cannot find a solution with our marketing manager
[40:13.760 -> 40:16.240] or our commercial manager, then they come to me.
[40:16.240 -> 40:18.680] And what I try to do then find a solution
[40:18.680 -> 40:19.760] which suits both of us.
[40:19.760 -> 40:22.680] And I explain why we cannot do it how they suggested,
[40:22.680 -> 40:25.040] but we could do this, that that and the other, you know.
[40:25.040 -> 40:31.760] But the challenge that I hear from Jay's question is that the manager's job is often to tell their
[40:31.760 -> 40:37.920] driver what they want to hear, your job is to tell them what they need to hear, and that doesn't
[40:37.920 -> 40:44.480] always meet in the middle. So how do you deal with that when you've got a manager that doesn't want
[40:44.480 -> 40:46.520] to convey your message?
[40:46.520 -> 40:48.520] They want to just tell them that the driver's great,
[40:48.520 -> 40:51.280] even though the evidence might be otherwise.
[40:51.280 -> 40:55.860] Ah, first of all, I want to go just a sidestep here.
[40:55.860 -> 40:58.440] I always want people which work for me
[40:58.440 -> 41:01.240] not to tell me what I want to hear, but what they think.
[41:01.240 -> 41:03.000] And sometimes if you hear people which work for me
[41:03.000 -> 41:04.720] speaking with me, you will be thinking,
[41:04.720 -> 41:06.120] hey, this guy is pretty brave,
[41:06.120 -> 41:07.280] but I asked him for that,
[41:07.280 -> 41:10.840] because if I think I'm the smartest and I know all of it,
[41:10.840 -> 41:12.120] why do I need these other people?
[41:12.120 -> 41:14.560] You know, I need people which tell me the truth, how it is.
[41:14.560 -> 41:17.140] And then obviously, if I don't agree with it,
[41:17.140 -> 41:18.560] we can discuss it, not debate it,
[41:18.560 -> 41:20.040] because debating is something different for me
[41:20.040 -> 41:22.680] than discussing it, and then find a solution between us.
[41:22.680 -> 41:23.920] And as I said before,
[41:23.920 -> 41:26.440] I sometimes agree to disagree with my people, but I never asked him to tell me what I want to hear. ja keskorda ja siis lööda meie meeldetusele. Kui kui ma kuil ma olin kõige, ma tean, et ma ei saanud mõelda minu inimesed,
[41:26.520 -> 41:29.000] aga ma ei kuikki küsin, et kus ma saan, mis ma hüppan.
[41:29.080 -> 41:30.600] Ma üksin seda.
[41:30.680 -> 41:32.960] Ma üksin, kui inimesed küsivad, mis ma hüppan,
[41:33.040 -> 41:35.120] sest see ei ole hea minu ja kaasa.
[41:35.200 -> 41:37.280] Ma tahan, et see on ükskondel ükskondel,
[41:37.360 -> 41:41.400] kuidas see näeb ja siis me peanudame ja küsime, mis on üht.
[41:41.480 -> 41:43.840] Same on teie küsimiseks.
[41:43.920 -> 41:46.680] Kui ma näen, et on ongel, and try to find what is real. And the same goes for the driver, going back to your question. If I see that there is an issue,
[41:46.680 -> 41:47.680] I just go and, as I said,
[41:47.680 -> 41:50.120] I just interfere and go speak with the driver direct
[41:50.120 -> 41:52.520] and give him my personal opinion about it
[41:52.520 -> 41:53.880] and explain it why.
[41:53.880 -> 41:56.360] And then I say, we need to do it like this and this
[41:56.360 -> 41:58.160] because this and this, even if he doesn't like it,
[41:58.160 -> 42:00.840] he's gonna do it because in the end he's an employee
[42:00.840 -> 42:03.920] and we agree to disagree, but we still move on.
[42:03.920 -> 42:05.160] And I sometimes need to
[42:05.160 -> 42:08.640] say okay I don't like what you're doing but just go and do it because it doesn't
[42:08.640 -> 42:13.240] hurt me I think it's the wrong thing to do for you but as you know the team has
[42:13.240 -> 42:17.760] no consequences of your actions just do it how you want to do it I would do it
[42:17.760 -> 42:21.880] different you know I'm pretty easy to deal with that one. Have you got an
[42:21.880 -> 42:29.040] example? I've got one but I don't want to bring that one up here it's too controversial. Go on. No, no, no, no, don't
[42:29.040 -> 42:34.000] convince me you know. Just do it without the name. No, no, no, it's too obvious the
[42:34.000 -> 42:37.360] name you know it's too obvious when it comes up you know it's too obvious for
[42:37.360 -> 42:40.320] everybody you know so. You don't want to cause yourself some unnecessary heat
[42:40.320 -> 42:44.160] right? Exactly, some unnecessary work to deal with you know because it's like what
[42:44.160 -> 42:49.760] you say and what you think you know know, because as we said before, I'm not known to not say what I think,
[42:49.760 -> 42:54.800] you know, but I don't need to rock every boat here, you know, so. But what you're saying is
[42:54.800 -> 43:00.080] your management style is you will be honest, you will be forthright, you will say it like it is,
[43:00.080 -> 43:03.520] you know, the phrase we use here in the UK, sugarcoat, you won't sugarcoat the message,
[43:04.400 -> 43:06.600] but then they're also allowed to be like that with you.
[43:06.600 -> 43:07.520] Yeah, absolutely.
[43:07.520 -> 43:08.360] And you can ask all the people-
[43:08.360 -> 43:10.200] And you won't get offended if someone comes to you and goes,
[43:10.200 -> 43:11.640] you got that wrong.
[43:11.640 -> 43:13.480] You read my email inbox,
[43:13.480 -> 43:15.160] and what people tell me sometimes on an email
[43:15.160 -> 43:16.200] is like, you would say,
[43:16.200 -> 43:17.640] whoa, this guy's brave,
[43:17.640 -> 43:18.920] but they know that they can be,
[43:18.920 -> 43:21.120] because as long as it's honest and for the right reason,
[43:21.120 -> 43:22.480] I have no issue with it, you know?
[43:22.480 -> 43:23.800] I can see immediately if somebody
[43:23.800 -> 43:27.680] has got an agenda or something, but they all know that I don't want to sound too smart here,
[43:27.680 -> 43:30.800] but I can see something if somebody tries to pull the wool over my eyes, you know?
[43:30.800 -> 43:33.280] Toby Day And how do you make sure that in a culture
[43:33.280 -> 43:38.800] where people can be as honest as that, that there's also room for kindness and understanding
[43:38.800 -> 43:42.160] and making sure that everyone fits, you know?
[43:42.160 -> 43:43.600] Wolfgang Klinger It's a very good question,
[43:43.600 -> 43:45.040] because it's sometimes I come over as being rude and too direct, or too direct is fits, you know? It's a very good question because it's sometimes
[43:45.040 -> 43:48.160] I come over as being rude and too direct,
[43:48.160 -> 43:50.120] or too direct is rude, you know?
[43:50.120 -> 43:53.120] But I'm never afraid if I say something wrong to apologize.
[43:53.120 -> 43:55.840] And I try always to tell people, you know,
[43:55.840 -> 43:58.140] if you say something wrong and if you overreact,
[43:58.140 -> 44:01.160] because as you say, I sometimes overreact in the situation,
[44:01.160 -> 44:03.200] the heat of the moment, especially during racing,
[44:03.200 -> 44:05.240] but I'm never afraid if I did something wrong
[44:05.240 -> 44:08.160] or offended somebody, not wanting to offend him,
[44:08.160 -> 44:09.480] but realized I actually did
[44:09.480 -> 44:12.080] because I know myself pretty well, you know?
[44:12.080 -> 44:14.440] I'm never afraid to apologize for something,
[44:14.440 -> 44:15.360] what I did wrong,
[44:15.360 -> 44:18.160] and I tell my people, never be afraid of,
[44:18.160 -> 44:20.320] and I sometimes, we have got some people
[44:20.320 -> 44:24.080] which this management style tends that people,
[44:24.080 -> 44:25.360] to their people, they are sometimes
[44:25.360 -> 44:29.320] a little bit direct means root, you know, because you're asking that one.
[44:29.320 -> 44:34.600] But I sometimes say, guy, just tone it down a notch here, you know, because I do not speak
[44:34.600 -> 44:38.800] to you like this, you know, so I expect not you to speak to the people which report to
[44:38.800 -> 44:39.800] you like this, you know.
[44:39.800 -> 44:44.000] So it's not very often that I have to do it because people have got a good balance there,
[44:44.000 -> 44:45.120] but sometimes it's happened, you know.
[44:45.120 -> 44:49.040] So to avoid that, to answer your question, is that when I get the feeling,
[44:49.040 -> 44:52.000] I just try to just slow down a little bit, you know.
[44:52.000 -> 44:54.800] Steve McLaughlin And how do you avoid an issue that,
[44:55.440 -> 44:58.320] when we were watching the TV program and reading your book,
[44:58.960 -> 45:06.960] is what I imagine is a danger that's coming your way of almost the point of parody. So I've read
[45:06.960 -> 45:11.420] Barry Gibbons is a management writer who talks about the Elvis Presley problem
[45:11.420 -> 45:16.260] where when Elvis first started curling his lip people screamed so he curled his
[45:16.260 -> 45:20.520] lip every time and then it almost became a parody it was easy to do it and when
[45:20.520 -> 45:25.600] you see you on the TV program using the F word, then... Which word?
[45:25.600 -> 45:30.800] Yeah, and even in your book, you know, I was talking to your publisher that the F word's
[45:30.800 -> 45:34.280] included 356 times in it.
[45:34.280 -> 45:39.680] How do you avoid it where people then almost want you to do it for the humor rather than
[45:39.680 -> 45:43.240] just the authenticity of who you really are?
[45:43.240 -> 45:46.640] It's not easy to do because it happens what you explain is real.
[45:46.640 -> 45:47.680] You know, people ask me,
[45:47.680 -> 45:51.120] are you doing this on purpose just to get attention or something like this?
[45:51.120 -> 45:54.640] But for example, I've got, sometimes I wouldn't say a lot of people,
[45:54.640 -> 45:56.320] you know, with their cell phone,
[45:56.320 -> 45:58.080] can you swear for me and I video it?
[45:58.080 -> 45:59.040] I don't do it.
[45:59.040 -> 45:59.440] Right.
[45:59.440 -> 46:03.600] I mean, you hear here and I don't have to really avoid to use the word.
[46:03.600 -> 46:04.800] It comes natural to me,
[46:04.800 -> 46:07.040] but it's a different situations where I use it.
[46:07.040 -> 46:09.000] And obviously what you say is right,
[46:09.000 -> 46:11.080] but I always feel like if you,
[46:11.080 -> 46:12.920] some people don't like it and I respect that.
[46:12.920 -> 46:16.080] You know, if you don't like it, you know what you do?
[46:16.080 -> 46:17.680] Don't read it, don't watch it.
[46:17.680 -> 46:20.960] Because I normally, if I don't like a book
[46:20.960 -> 46:24.520] or I don't like a movie, I don't watch the whole movie
[46:24.520 -> 46:25.600] and then say, this was bad, I stop it before. The same as with the book, you read the first 10 pages, you don't like a book or I don't like a movie, I don't watch the whole movie and then say,
[46:25.600 -> 46:26.600] this was bad.
[46:26.600 -> 46:27.600] I stopped it before.
[46:27.600 -> 46:31.320] The same as with a book, you read the first 10 pages, you don't like it, I put it aside,
[46:31.320 -> 46:32.320] move on.
[46:32.320 -> 46:34.760] If they've got an opinion, it's fine, but does it anything to me?
[46:34.760 -> 46:36.800] No, because it isn't a parody.
[46:36.800 -> 46:41.680] And obviously it is maybe hyped up a little bit by writing a book by Netflix that they
[46:41.680 -> 46:46.400] get you in these situations because it has become a little bit, I would almost say a trademark,
[46:46.400 -> 46:49.440] but I'm not in control of it,
[46:49.440 -> 46:51.720] so I'm not telling them to use it,
[46:51.720 -> 46:53.840] so I don't feel guilty of it, to be honest.
[46:53.840 -> 46:56.540] So you can choose what you read and what you watch,
[46:56.540 -> 46:58.280] and that is not me choosing for you.
[46:58.280 -> 46:59.720] Do you watch Drive to Survive?
[46:59.720 -> 47:01.000] No.
[47:01.000 -> 47:02.640] Why not?
[47:02.640 -> 47:09.000] For the simple reason, if I see myself, maybe I would act differently the next time, and
[47:09.000 -> 47:10.720] then you don't get the real me.
[47:10.720 -> 47:14.800] And I think Drive to Survive has opened Formula 1 to a lot of people because they see the
[47:14.800 -> 47:16.240] real people there.
[47:16.240 -> 47:20.920] If I would be an actor, I would watch myself because then I can do my job better.
[47:20.920 -> 47:22.440] Because I watch myself, what do I do next?
[47:22.440 -> 47:23.440] But I'm not an actor.
[47:23.440 -> 47:24.440] I'm not acting.
[47:24.440 -> 47:28.240] I'm doing my job. And that is where people have sometimes a problem to understand, you know,
[47:28.240 -> 47:33.120] it's like, I'm not, they don't tell me what to do. I just do my job and they film me. This is who I
[47:33.120 -> 47:38.080] am. You're as famous, if not more famous than your drivers these days. How does that sit with you?
[47:38.880 -> 47:42.720] I don't really care about that. I mean, it's maybe too simple of an answer, but I don't care.
[47:42.720 -> 47:46.400] I'm not going in the internet and see how many clicks they have and how many clicks.
[47:46.400 -> 47:47.400] I don't care.
[47:47.400 -> 47:50.040] I mean, I'm social media, I'm not active at all personally.
[47:50.040 -> 47:53.600] The team is obviously, but I have no social media account.
[47:53.600 -> 47:57.000] If I do something stupid, you get people telling you about it.
[47:57.000 -> 47:59.440] You shouldn't have done that, mainly my wife.
[47:59.440 -> 48:03.280] And then you get from some Instagram thing or something like this, what people had to
[48:03.280 -> 48:05.560] say, but it's very rarely, you know,
[48:05.560 -> 48:07.680] it's not more than 10 times a year
[48:07.680 -> 48:09.680] that I go and watch what I have done
[48:09.680 -> 48:11.440] or what I'm on the internet.
[48:11.440 -> 48:14.000] See, I'm interested in what we were talking about
[48:14.000 -> 48:15.560] before we recorded about,
[48:15.560 -> 48:17.560] you've been married for 29 years to your wife,
[48:17.560 -> 48:20.680] you have a daughter who's 14 years of age,
[48:20.680 -> 48:23.200] and you also made a comment that intrigued me
[48:23.200 -> 48:25.000] when you were talking about your other successful business you set up after you'd left NASCAR, A wnaethwch hefyd gwneud ymdrechion sy'n fy ymdrechu wrth i chi ddweud am eich busnes gwag arall
[48:25.000 -> 48:29.000] y gwnewch chi'n ei sefydlu ar ôl i chi ddod allan i NASCAR, lle dwech chi dweud,
[48:29.000 -> 48:34.000] dwi ddim yn ymdrechu â hyn, dwi ddim yn gallu rhoi'r amser a'r energia a'r gofal sydd eu hangen arno.
[48:34.000 -> 48:39.000] Dwi'n mwynhau, beth wnaethwch chi ddysgu o'ch gyrfa o'r dydd i'w ddod allan i Italia,
[48:39.000 -> 48:42.000] y gyda'ch bod chi wedi gyrraedd un o ffyrdd ffyrdd o'r gyrfa,
[48:42.000 -> 48:46.080] y gyda'ch bod chi'n ei ddefnyddio, o'ch gwrthwyneb, gyda'ch dau, ond hefyd yn y busnes y gwnewch chi'n ei sefydlu hefyd. you've led such a rich varied career that you do use both at home with your
[48:46.080 -> 48:50.160] daughter but also in the business that you set up as well. What are the
[48:50.160 -> 48:55.000] transferable skills? I lived in different places in the world you know in
[48:55.000 -> 48:59.280] complete different places and I always try to learn the culture of people to
[48:59.280 -> 49:04.360] know how people do business I call it now business how people are and we are
[49:04.360 -> 49:05.760] all different you know we are all the same but business, how people are. And we are all different. We are all
[49:05.760 -> 49:10.120] the same, but all different how we do. I grew up in a place where you speak Italian and
[49:10.120 -> 49:14.360] German, both of it. So I grew up as a kid with different cultures. So when you deal
[49:14.360 -> 49:18.840] with the German, do not try to be an Italian because it will not work. I moved to the States
[49:18.840 -> 49:23.800] and you come from Formula One, you go to NASCAR, you think you know it all. I get there and
[49:23.800 -> 49:30.000] actually I thought, I actually know nothing here because this is a different world to me. And I step back and
[49:30.000 -> 49:34.720] watch them six months to learn about how they do things. And I'm not saying one is better,
[49:34.720 -> 49:40.000] one is worse, it's different. That's what I learned. Wherever you are, try to live like the people
[49:41.120 -> 49:44.800] in their culture, you know, and then you will be successful. You know, if you try to do business
[49:44.800 -> 49:45.720] in America, like you do it in England, you will, and then you will be successful. You know, if you try to do business in America,
[49:45.720 -> 49:46.800] like you do it in England,
[49:46.800 -> 49:48.840] you will not be successful in my opinion.
[49:48.840 -> 49:51.320] And what about life as a husband and as a father?
[49:51.320 -> 49:52.600] You know, I'm one of the rare people
[49:52.600 -> 49:54.040] that walked away from Formula One
[49:54.040 -> 49:56.000] to be with my children and my wife.
[49:56.000 -> 49:59.320] How does your wife and child deal with your travel?
[49:59.320 -> 50:01.480] How do you deal with being a dad and husband
[50:01.480 -> 50:02.320] who's away a lot?
[50:03.440 -> 50:05.080] I think I've got one,
[50:05.080 -> 50:09.460] but when we got married, I was already a traveler,
[50:09.460 -> 50:10.520] call it like this, you know,
[50:10.520 -> 50:11.840] I was already on the road all the time.
[50:11.840 -> 50:13.960] So my wife knows that one as well.
[50:13.960 -> 50:15.920] It's not ideal.
[50:15.920 -> 50:18.520] I mean, would I say I'm not the perfect father?
[50:18.520 -> 50:19.720] By no means, you know,
[50:19.720 -> 50:22.920] I try to make up when I'm at home that, you know,
[50:22.920 -> 50:25.840] I spend time with them and they know that when I'm away,
[50:25.840 -> 50:31.680] I work hard, and I work for the right reason, so they respect what I do. I always try to find a way
[50:31.680 -> 50:37.440] to make them miss them as little as possible. You said in your book that you've had to become
[50:37.440 -> 50:41.920] your own best friend over the years. I just wonder whether there's a loneliness to the
[50:41.920 -> 50:50.800] life that you live that people don't understand necessarily. Yeah, it comes with it, you know, because, you know, you've got people which work with you,
[50:50.800 -> 50:59.040] for you, but I'm one of the persons, I know that they don't want to be with me all the time. And I
[50:59.040 -> 51:03.920] respect that because, you know, a lot of people say, because you work with me, you need to go for
[51:03.920 -> 51:05.040] dinner with me. No, I don't ask them, I say if you want to, but you can with me, you need to go for dinner with me.
[51:05.040 -> 51:06.680] No, I don't ask them.
[51:06.680 -> 51:08.800] I say, if you want to, but you can say no,
[51:08.800 -> 51:12.640] but I don't force people to surround me and entertain me.
[51:12.640 -> 51:15.720] It can get a little bit, I wouldn't say boring,
[51:15.720 -> 51:19.680] you're lonely, it's like, why the hell I'm doing this?
[51:19.680 -> 51:21.680] My family is sitting at home watching TV
[51:21.680 -> 51:23.600] and I'm sitting in a hotel room watching TV
[51:23.600 -> 51:28.320] instead of being with them, but it's part of the job. So why are you doing it? Because I love what I'm doing.
[51:28.880 -> 51:35.360] It's as simple as this, you know, I love both sides of it and I try to integrate my love for
[51:35.360 -> 51:40.800] what I'm doing in life, my family as well, you know, I try always to do the best, but obviously
[51:40.800 -> 51:50.480] I cannot say nothing is perfect, you always have to make compromises, whatever you do. I think one of the times when you're probably most lonely is when something big happens
[51:50.480 -> 51:51.680] and the buck stops with you.
[51:51.680 -> 51:53.520] You know, Gene owns the team, but he's in the States.
[51:53.520 -> 51:54.080] He's separate.
[51:54.080 -> 51:55.040] It's all about you.
[51:55.040 -> 52:02.080] The two moments that spring to mind is COVID, when you didn't know whether the team or Formula
[52:02.080 -> 52:03.680] One even was going to survive.
[52:03.680 -> 52:07.860] Yet your only job is to try and tell all of the staff that everything will be fine, you
[52:07.860 -> 52:12.000] have to take the pressure. And probably even more stark than that was Romain
[52:12.000 -> 52:17.880] Grosjean's huge crash, when I guess you're watching on the pit wall, possibly
[52:17.880 -> 52:21.240] fearing the worst, knowing that you're the person that whatever happens next
[52:21.240 -> 52:27.320] you have to be the person to make those decisions and deal with that. Tell us what that's like.
[52:27.320 -> 52:31.520] The two scenarios are actually very good scenarios, but they're completely different. With Romain,
[52:31.520 -> 52:35.520] I start with that one because it's a shorter one. It's like, you know, I do racing a long
[52:35.520 -> 52:40.720] time, as I said before, when you see what you see on TV, and I don't see anything different
[52:40.720 -> 52:45.440] than you guys see, you know, I know if he's not out in the next 20 to 30 seconds,
[52:45.440 -> 52:50.000] he's not coming out. There's no chance that he comes out. You know that. And then while you think
[52:50.000 -> 52:55.760] that, how I deal with that, because obviously you have to think about it, he's out. So it is very
[52:55.760 -> 53:01.360] tense, but in that 30 seconds, which it happened, it was over pretty quick, you know, and then how
[53:01.360 -> 53:06.840] we deal that, when I saw him coming out, he can have a broken leg, a broken hand, I mean, he's okay, you know.
[53:06.840 -> 53:09.420] The only thing, he needs to survive here.
[53:09.420 -> 53:12.880] Because in my position, you know, if this car is on fire
[53:12.880 -> 53:15.180] and the guy doesn't jump out of it,
[53:16.060 -> 53:18.760] he will be done because he just cannot survive it, you know.
[53:18.760 -> 53:21.820] It maybe sounds brutal how I say it, but that's what it is.
[53:21.820 -> 53:23.400] You know it, you're not hoping.
[53:23.400 -> 53:25.100] Yeah, but maybe he could know.
[53:25.100 -> 53:25.940] There's no chance.
[53:25.940 -> 53:27.480] He comes out, everything is good.
[53:27.480 -> 53:28.680] He survived.
[53:28.680 -> 53:31.120] Now we have to deal informing his family, you know,
[53:31.120 -> 53:33.520] and again, I get my people around me,
[53:33.520 -> 53:36.480] which at the time was the director of comms.
[53:36.480 -> 53:39.440] We said, how can we get the message out that everybody
[53:39.440 -> 53:42.040] or as many people as possible know that he's okay?
[53:42.040 -> 53:43.440] Because that is the most important thing
[53:43.440 -> 53:45.120] because there are friends, there is family,
[53:45.120 -> 53:47.260] there's a lot of, and if you want to call them up
[53:47.260 -> 53:49.120] one by one, it takes you a few hours,
[53:49.120 -> 53:50.680] because everybody wants to give you the story.
[53:50.680 -> 53:53.440] So obviously, get a TV channel here,
[53:53.440 -> 53:55.560] the biggest one you can, and give the message,
[53:55.560 -> 53:56.760] because then everybody else knows,
[53:56.760 -> 53:58.120] and that is what you try to do.
[53:58.120 -> 53:59.760] So obviously, we got lucky there,
[53:59.760 -> 54:02.360] and we had to tell good news and not bad news,
[54:02.360 -> 54:06.000] but it is, you're lonely, but it is over pretty quick.
[54:06.000 -> 54:11.760] The other scenario, COVID, it was a never-ending story. It was every morning I had to get up and
[54:11.760 -> 54:17.840] keep on hustling to make it happen. But you just, as I said before, if you want to do something,
[54:17.840 -> 54:21.760] and if one solution doesn't work, go and find the next solution, you know, just keep on
[54:22.320 -> 54:28.160] doing things, trying to make it happen. You know, the plan in the beginning was different than it ended up to be. But in the end,
[54:28.160 -> 54:33.680] we found a solution because Gene was pretty clear. He said, I don't think we can continue here if you
[54:33.680 -> 54:38.560] don't find a solution. He doesn't say what the solution is. And I respect that because in the
[54:38.560 -> 54:42.640] end, I'm in charge of it. He gives me the freedom to run a team. So I have to find solutions. I'm
[54:42.640 -> 54:46.600] not upset that he doesn't say, oh, I give you all the money you want now, you know.
[54:46.600 -> 54:47.960] What was the solution?
[54:47.960 -> 54:50.360] Just finding outside money, you know, to finance it
[54:50.360 -> 54:53.360] and trying to keep as many people on board as possible.
[54:53.360 -> 54:54.440] There's a lot of small things,
[54:54.440 -> 54:57.440] but the big thing is just trying to find the financing
[54:57.440 -> 54:58.440] to keep on going.
[54:58.440 -> 55:00.720] So can I just ask you a bit about self-belief
[55:00.720 -> 55:01.800] and backing yourself?
[55:01.800 -> 55:03.640] I mean, there's a few lovely examples of this.
[55:03.640 -> 55:09.680] You deciding to create a US Formula One team, right? Most people wouldn't even begin because they think, oh,
[55:09.680 -> 55:13.680] that's just crazy. Then there's a lovely story where Gene says, I need to get a super license.
[55:13.680 -> 55:17.440] And you say, leave the super license to me with no idea whether you can get a super license to
[55:17.440 -> 55:20.960] set up the house Formula One team. And then when it comes to the super license, someone says,
[55:20.960 -> 55:26.480] you better get some lawyers. And you're like, nah, nah, nah, I haven't got the time or the money for lawyers. I'm going to do it
[55:26.480 -> 55:30.020] myself. And then Jean rings you during COVID and says, if you can't find money,
[55:30.020 -> 55:35.840] I shut the team down. How on earth throughout all of these moments do you
[55:35.840 -> 55:38.840] find the mental strength to back yourself? I think this is great for
[55:38.840 -> 55:43.360] people because people get derailed all the time, and I think whatever you do
[55:43.360 -> 55:46.200] to not be derailed is really valuable for people.
[55:46.200 -> 55:47.200] I don't know how I do it.
[55:47.200 -> 55:50.000] I just, I believe, and obviously it has to do
[55:50.000 -> 55:51.840] with experiences, what you made in life.
[55:51.840 -> 55:55.080] You know, you can do this, but also, for example,
[55:55.080 -> 55:58.520] if Gene would have not wanted an F1 team,
[55:58.520 -> 56:00.080] would my life have changed?
[56:00.080 -> 56:02.960] Yes, but I would have been still in a good place,
[56:02.960 -> 56:04.760] you know, because I was okay.
[56:04.760 -> 56:07.740] I didn't put myself under pressure of survival
[56:07.740 -> 56:09.240] at that stage, you know, when he says,
[56:09.240 -> 56:10.540] get a super license.
[56:10.540 -> 56:12.460] I was pretty sure I can get a super license
[56:12.460 -> 56:15.580] because there is ways and I knew enough people, you know,
[56:15.580 -> 56:17.160] you just get that feeling, you know,
[56:17.160 -> 56:18.500] the confidence in yourself.
[56:18.500 -> 56:21.960] And there is one problem, you shouldn't get overconfident.
[56:21.960 -> 56:24.620] And that is the thing, if it is not achievable,
[56:24.620 -> 56:26.720] I say it is not achievable, you know,
[56:26.720 -> 56:29.200] but once I made the commitment to Gene
[56:29.200 -> 56:31.700] that I get the license, I needed to get the license
[56:31.700 -> 56:33.140] because otherwise I call it failure,
[56:33.140 -> 56:35.680] but I had enough confidence that I can get the license
[56:35.680 -> 56:38.140] because at that point I had spoken enough people
[56:38.140 -> 56:40.840] how to navigate it, you know, to get the license.
[56:40.840 -> 56:44.000] The same when we had, as you said, in the COVID period,
[56:48.000 -> 56:50.000] I wasn't sure to find a way out of it, but I was pretty sure.
[56:50.000 -> 56:52.000] You never can be sure until you have done it,
[56:52.000 -> 56:54.000] because that is arrogance.
[56:54.000 -> 56:56.000] I don't want to come over as arrogant,
[56:56.000 -> 57:00.000] but it was hard work, and the pressure was high.
[57:00.000 -> 57:02.000] I got up every morning with pressure,
[57:02.000 -> 57:04.000] how we navigate this.
[57:04.000 -> 57:05.960] It wasn't easy, but it also has to morning with pressure. How we navigate this, you know, it's like, it wasn't easy,
[57:05.960 -> 57:08.040] but it also has to do with determination.
[57:08.040 -> 57:10.240] If you want to do something,
[57:10.240 -> 57:11.720] I think people can do a lot more
[57:11.720 -> 57:12.920] than they think they can do.
[57:12.920 -> 57:13.800] And are you patient?
[57:13.800 -> 57:15.880] Because I think all of these things take time.
[57:15.880 -> 57:17.040] I mean, look how long it took you
[57:17.040 -> 57:19.360] to get that pole position in Formula One,
[57:19.360 -> 57:20.840] which I'm sure was an incredible moment,
[57:20.840 -> 57:23.640] but patience is something that we don't talk about
[57:23.640 -> 57:26.400] often enough maybe in the modern world, where everything happens quick.
[57:26.400 -> 57:28.340] I think I've got long-term patience,
[57:28.340 -> 57:31.080] but sometimes my short-term patience is not of my best,
[57:31.080 -> 57:32.680] and my family tells me that sometimes.
[57:32.680 -> 57:34.080] You know, you need to be more patient.
[57:34.080 -> 57:37.320] You know, I get little things, I'm very impatient,
[57:37.320 -> 57:40.560] but long-term patience, I think that is more a strategy,
[57:40.560 -> 57:42.880] you know, and there, you need to know
[57:42.880 -> 57:44.420] that you will achieve it, you know?
[57:44.420 -> 57:46.600] So how long-term do you think?
[57:46.600 -> 57:49.160] For me personally, not very long-term.
[57:49.160 -> 57:51.680] Honestly, I don't think what is Gunther doing in five years,
[57:51.680 -> 57:52.640] he doesn't know.
[57:52.640 -> 57:55.960] I don't really care, but for the team, I think long-term
[57:55.960 -> 57:57.280] because I feel responsibility.
[57:57.280 -> 57:59.040] It's the same for my company, for these things
[57:59.040 -> 58:01.480] where I know other people is involved
[58:01.480 -> 58:04.840] and they need to have a long, mid to long-term plan.
[58:04.840 -> 58:08.940] I feel more responsible for that than for myself.
[58:08.940 -> 58:13.220] I'm now late 50s, so you think,
[58:13.220 -> 58:16.300] okay, I will be okay one way or another,
[58:16.300 -> 58:18.300] but there is people which are building a career up
[58:18.300 -> 58:21.060] and you need to help them and give them the possibility
[58:21.060 -> 58:22.620] because we made a promise.
[58:22.620 -> 58:23.940] Once you put the company in place,
[58:23.940 -> 58:29.200] you made a promise to people that they will have a job, they can have a family which they can count on, a job to feed
[58:29.200 -> 58:33.760] their family, you know, that is responsibility. So I think in that things, mid to long term,
[58:33.760 -> 58:39.120] mid at least if not too long term, but on myself, you know, whatever happens, I will deal with it.
[58:39.120 -> 58:42.160] You know, right. We've reached the point where we have some quick fire questions.
[58:42.800 -> 58:45.120] We've covered a few of these actually, but let's get into them.
[58:45.120 -> 58:50.880] What are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you have to buy into?
[58:50.880 -> 58:51.760] Dr. Will Smith
[58:51.760 -> 58:56.240] Honesty, accountability, you know, that they know that, that they are accountable for it,
[58:57.040 -> 58:58.720] and hardworking.
[58:58.720 -> 58:58.880] Dr. John Ball
[58:58.880 -> 59:02.000] What is your biggest weakness and your greatest strength?
[59:02.000 -> 59:02.960] Dr. Will Smith
[59:02.960 -> 59:05.640] My biggest weakness can be sometimes being
[59:05.640 -> 59:08.040] impatient, you know, in the short term.
[59:08.040 -> 59:10.840] I sometimes end my coming out because it
[59:10.840 -> 59:12.920] goes over to people get almost scared
[59:12.920 -> 59:15.160] when I have my blast, you know, and my
[59:15.160 -> 59:17.400] biggest strength, I think my
[59:17.400 -> 59:20.520] determination to get something done.
[59:20.520 -> 59:22.000] What is the thing that people get wrong about
[59:22.000 -> 59:24.400] you or misunderstand most about you, do you think?
[59:24.400 -> 59:25.000] They think I'm not approachable, which I am actually as a human being, you What is the thing that people get wrong about you or misunderstand most about you, do you think?
[59:25.000 -> 59:30.000] They think I'm not approachable, which I am actually as a human being, you know.
[59:30.000 -> 59:33.000] People are almost scared sometimes of me, which is...
[59:33.000 -> 59:36.000] And I don't know if it is maybe to do also with my looks, you know,
[59:36.000 -> 59:38.000] because I can look very angry, I know.
[59:38.000 -> 59:39.000] You know, it's like people get afraid of it.
[59:39.000 -> 59:41.000] Let's see your angry face again.
[59:41.000 -> 59:42.000] No, I don't do it.
[59:42.000 -> 59:44.000] It was a little frown.
[59:44.000 -> 59:47.600] No, that's not scary. What advice would
[59:47.600 -> 59:52.880] you give to a young hunter just starting out on your journey? Be adventurous, you know,
[59:52.880 -> 59:58.640] take opportunities, you know, as they come along, you know, it's, always make sure you've got a plan
[59:58.640 -> 01:00:03.680] plan B, but never be afraid of anything. How old were you when your, when your father passed away?
[01:00:04.880 -> 01:00:07.200] 18. Right, What would he have
[01:00:07.200 -> 01:00:11.440] made of the life you've lived and the things you've done? I think he would be proud of it.
[01:00:11.440 -> 01:00:15.920] I think he would be proud of it, what I've achieved, you know. Where do you think this
[01:00:15.920 -> 01:00:21.360] drive and this energy and this kind of constant need to work and graft, where do you think that
[01:00:21.360 -> 01:00:25.760] comes from? Because could you trace it back to anything in childhood?
[01:00:25.760 -> 01:00:27.680] Because often, you know, we find that people come on this
[01:00:27.680 -> 01:00:31.600] podcast and it is a trauma or it is a setback or it is a hard
[01:00:31.600 -> 01:00:34.320] moment that gives them the fire in their stomach that maybe
[01:00:34.320 -> 01:00:35.520] other people don't have.
[01:00:36.680 -> 01:00:38.720] I don't think it was any like a trauma.
[01:00:38.720 -> 01:00:42.200] I think my whole family, I grew up in a family which my
[01:00:42.200 -> 01:00:45.600] parents came from the valleys and had to open their own business
[01:00:45.600 -> 01:00:46.920] and I know how they worked hard
[01:00:46.920 -> 01:00:48.440] and I always had to help when I was a kid
[01:00:48.440 -> 01:00:50.280] and I never shied away of it.
[01:00:50.280 -> 01:00:52.400] You know, I was always, and I think that just came
[01:00:52.400 -> 01:00:54.800] when seeing that one, I grew up in that environment
[01:00:54.800 -> 01:00:57.920] and I think it just, it's copy-paste.
[01:00:57.920 -> 01:01:00.000] So your version of hard work, what is that?
[01:01:00.000 -> 01:01:01.080] Like, what time are you up?
[01:01:01.080 -> 01:01:02.600] What time do you work till?
[01:01:02.600 -> 01:01:04.080] That could be completely different.
[01:01:04.080 -> 01:01:09.080] And I, older I got, I don't define my work life
[01:01:09.400 -> 01:01:11.680] as how many hours I'm in the office.
[01:01:11.680 -> 01:01:13.960] And I started not to define it with people
[01:01:13.960 -> 01:01:16.240] which work for me, how long they are in the office.
[01:01:16.240 -> 01:01:18.120] Because that is something, you can be in the office
[01:01:18.120 -> 01:01:20.600] doing a lot of nothing, that doesn't make you good.
[01:01:20.600 -> 01:01:22.960] I think I could be in the office early
[01:01:22.960 -> 01:01:24.640] because I'm jet lagged and I go in early.
[01:01:24.640 -> 01:01:29.760] I could be there late, but I could also be leaving early because I can see I'm not productive
[01:01:29.760 -> 01:01:33.680] anymore. It's no point to sit in an office doing a lot of nothing, a bed or rest. But
[01:01:33.680 -> 01:01:38.400] I also, when you are somewhere, and as we said before, when you're sitting somewhere
[01:01:38.400 -> 01:01:44.680] alone, I do a lot of thinking work. I need to think a lot of stuff for the future, and
[01:01:44.680 -> 01:01:50.160] you need time for that. And I use that time. And do you count that as working? I would say so, you know,
[01:01:50.160 -> 01:01:54.720] if you try to do something. So that's why I say it's very difficult to say I'm not the guy which
[01:01:54.720 -> 01:02:00.320] is at six o'clock in the office and leaving at 11 at night. No, that's not me anymore. And I maybe
[01:02:00.320 -> 01:02:06.340] did that in the old days, but I don't define myself, but how much time I define my, what do I achieve in a day?
[01:02:06.340 -> 01:02:07.740] That is more what I do.
[01:02:07.740 -> 01:02:13.380] And my biggest satisfaction is, it's very strange, is we all do jobs we don't like to
[01:02:13.380 -> 01:02:14.380] do.
[01:02:14.380 -> 01:02:18.440] I have jobs to do I hate to do, you know, as well, you know, like administrative jobs
[01:02:18.440 -> 01:02:19.740] and things like this.
[01:02:19.740 -> 01:02:24.220] But at night, I'm proud that I have done them because the easy jobs, the things you like
[01:02:24.220 -> 01:02:25.000] to do, they you like to do,
[01:02:25.000 -> 01:02:26.720] they are easy to do, so they're not really work,
[01:02:26.720 -> 01:02:29.160] but I get satisfaction, oh, I got this one done,
[01:02:29.160 -> 01:02:30.720] even if I disliked it to do.
[01:02:30.720 -> 01:02:33.000] We have a high-performance book club.
[01:02:33.000 -> 01:02:34.960] Is there one book or a book you would like,
[01:02:34.960 -> 01:02:36.040] apart from your own,
[01:02:36.040 -> 01:02:41.040] that you would recommend our listeners or viewers read?
[01:02:41.800 -> 01:02:43.720] A book that's maybe been good for you?
[01:02:44.640 -> 01:02:50.560] On the road, you for sure know, huh? Jack Krojak. I mean, the last time I read it was maybe 20 years
[01:02:50.560 -> 01:02:55.360] ago, if not more. But that was a thing like, I'm not saying the circumstances in there are perfect,
[01:02:55.360 -> 01:02:59.360] what they do and what they, but it's more like get going, you know?
[01:02:59.360 -> 01:03:04.160] And finally, what's your one final message for our listeners to understand how to live
[01:03:04.160 -> 01:03:05.760] a high performance life?
[01:03:05.760 -> 01:03:10.720] To never give up. It's as simple as this. You always keep on pushing, you know, keep on
[01:03:10.720 -> 01:03:15.520] doing what you like to do. Enjoy it, you know, enjoy what you do and keep pushing.
[01:03:15.520 -> 01:03:19.440] Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for sharing all that. And thank you so much for
[01:03:19.440 -> 01:03:20.640] not swearing.
[01:03:20.640 -> 01:03:23.520] No, you don't have to thank you. I told you I can do that. You know, yeah,
[01:03:24.240 -> 01:03:27.560] you didn't listen, you see, so you're not a high performer, because you didn't listen
[01:03:27.560 -> 01:03:28.560] to me yet.
[01:03:28.560 -> 01:03:29.560] That was great.
[01:03:29.560 -> 01:03:35.800] Damien, Jake, there's loads to pick out there.
[01:03:35.800 -> 01:03:40.840] I mean, I think the biggest thing is, you know, we see a certain Gunter Steiner when
[01:03:40.840 -> 01:03:42.600] we watch Drive to Survive.
[01:03:42.600 -> 01:03:46.760] And actually, I think we saw the
[01:03:44.420 -> 01:03:48.520] person behind the caricature there, you
[01:03:46.760 -> 01:03:51.040] know, there wasn't the swearing, there
[01:03:48.520 -> 01:03:52.560] wasn't the bombastic, you know, sometimes
[01:03:51.040 -> 01:03:55.840] quite over-the-top management style.
[01:03:52.560 -> 01:03:59.800] There was actually a carefully considered
[01:03:55.840 -> 01:04:01.960] thoughtful person who, you know, admits that it's
[01:03:59.800 -> 01:04:03.520] a lonely life and a lonely job but when
[01:04:01.960 -> 01:04:05.720] you're making big decisions and dealing
[01:04:03.520 -> 01:04:06.080] with big
[01:04:03.840 -> 01:04:09.200] things like he is, that's the truth about
[01:04:06.080 -> 01:04:10.800] management. It's a really good example to me
[01:04:09.200 -> 01:04:12.640] Jake as I was listening to him of
[01:04:10.800 -> 01:04:14.240] context of understanding it. It's like
[01:04:12.640 -> 01:04:15.920] that old analogy we spoke about
[01:04:14.240 -> 01:04:18.000] before that when somebody cuts you up
[01:04:15.920 -> 01:04:19.760] driving you just assume that they're a
[01:04:18.000 -> 01:04:21.400] dick but when you cut somebody up it's
[01:04:19.760 -> 01:04:23.240] because you're in a rush that we're
[01:04:21.400 -> 01:04:25.520] great at justifying our own actions and I
[01:04:23.240 -> 01:04:28.320] think that to me was a really good example of not judging a book by its y byddwn yn ddiddorol yn ddweud ein bod ni'n ddweud ein gwaith ein hunain. Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny i mi oedd un o'r cyfleoedd iawn o ddim yn ymdrech ar y llyfr o'i gael, y gallwch
[01:04:28.320 -> 01:04:32.000] gweld rhywun ar y drwydd i ddod o hyd a'u cydnabod, fel y dweudwch, eu bod yn ddiddorol
[01:04:32.000 -> 01:04:37.280] neu'n agresif neu'n bombastig, ac iawn, dyna oedd un o'r ddeunyddau sy'n ddiddorol iawn,
[01:04:37.280 -> 01:04:42.400] mewn gwirionedd, yn ymwneud â pherson ddiddorol sy'n ymwneud â ni, yn y gwirionedd. Felly rwy'n credu
[01:04:42.400 -> 01:04:46.400] ychydig amser yn deall y cyfnod y mae pobl yn gweithio yn eich gynhyrchu i ni that in front of us, the opposite of it. So I think sometimes understanding the context
[01:04:44.080 -> 01:04:48.080] in which people operate allows us to get
[01:04:46.400 -> 01:04:51.320] beyond the judgment and get into that
[01:04:48.080 -> 01:04:53.240] empathy, understanding and the more subtle
[01:04:51.320 -> 01:04:55.160] nuances around who a person is.
[01:04:53.240 -> 01:04:58.000] And I think he also understands that you know
[01:04:55.160 -> 01:05:01.040] you in 2023 you can't have an
[01:04:58.000 -> 01:05:03.200] environment even in you know elite
[01:05:01.040 -> 01:05:05.840] motorsport that is constantly like
[01:05:03.200 -> 01:05:06.460] just the unfiltered truth and just the kind of really
[01:05:06.840 -> 01:05:11.600] hard push push push for success, you know, like when we spoke about that
[01:05:11.600 -> 01:05:14.320] he understood that actually it does take all sorts and I think
[01:05:14.440 -> 01:05:18.280] You know you if he ended up with a business with only people like him
[01:05:18.280 -> 01:05:19.980] He actually ends up with a bad business
[01:05:19.980 -> 01:05:27.520] You know that cognitive diversity that difference of opinion that difference of all absolutely vital for for Haas and for him to be successful.
[01:05:27.520 -> 01:05:31.920] Well I thought your question was a cracker when you asked him about kindness and decency and
[01:05:31.920 -> 01:05:37.920] he immediately understood that and and the importance of just admitting when you're wrong
[01:05:37.920 -> 01:05:43.200] and apologizing quickly. You know, we spoke about the bad news and he said, oh I don't enjoy doing
[01:05:43.200 -> 01:05:46.360] it but sometimes just doing it, but
[01:05:43.600 -> 01:05:48.240] sometimes just doing it with empathy and
[01:05:46.360 -> 01:05:51.080] understanding is really, is a really
[01:05:48.240 -> 01:05:52.840] powerful concept. I really enjoyed that
[01:05:51.080 -> 01:05:56.080] and I really hope that, you know,
[01:05:52.840 -> 01:05:59.080] people feel that they know Gunter Steiner
[01:05:56.080 -> 01:06:02.760] and know the power and the importance of
[01:05:59.080 -> 01:06:04.400] consistency, hard work, but also
[01:06:02.760 -> 01:06:06.360] operating on instinct, which is what he
[01:06:04.400 -> 01:06:26.000] seems to do. I hope they understand him o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o'r f y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud, y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud, y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud, y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:26.000 -> 01:06:28.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:28.000 -> 01:06:30.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:30.000 -> 01:06:32.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:32.000 -> 01:06:34.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:34.000 -> 01:06:36.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:36.000 -> 01:06:38.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:38.000 -> 01:06:40.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:40.000 -> 01:06:42.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:42.000 -> 01:06:44.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud,
[01:06:44.000 -> 01:06:45.000] y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud, y pethau y byddwn i'n ei ddweud, But then he was also conscious of the consequences of knowing that he had a plan B.
[01:06:45.000 -> 01:06:47.000] He was always another way of doing it.
[01:06:47.000 -> 01:06:53.000] And I think when we can manage expectations, manage consequences, and then focus on our abilities,
[01:06:53.000 -> 01:06:57.000] that's where we can operate from instincts in a really powerful, constructive manner.
[01:06:57.000 -> 01:06:58.000] I enjoyed it, mate.
[01:06:58.000 -> 01:07:00.000] Me too. Thanks, mate.
[01:07:01.000 -> 01:07:05.600] Well, as always, huge thanks to you for listening to today's High Performance podcast. And I
[01:07:05.600 -> 01:07:10.240] really love it actually when we can allow you to see someone in a way that perhaps you
[01:07:10.240 -> 01:07:13.400] didn't. And you know, no matter the world that you live in, I really hope that your
[01:07:13.400 -> 01:07:18.240] knowledge and your understanding of him and the way he manages people and the way he manages
[01:07:18.240 -> 01:07:22.920] situations, the way he deals with trauma and difficult moments, as well as dealing with
[01:07:22.920 -> 01:07:25.960] triumph, I really hope that that's valuable for you in your life.
[01:07:25.960 -> 01:07:28.640] Don't forget you can also watch these episodes on YouTube,
[01:07:28.640 -> 01:07:30.960] as well as listen to them wherever you get your podcasts.
[01:07:30.960 -> 01:07:33.960] And there's only one thing that we really want you to do, please,
[01:07:33.960 -> 01:07:36.200] just simply hit subscribe.
[01:07:36.200 -> 01:07:37.760] It makes the world of difference to us.
[01:07:37.760 -> 01:07:39.360] If you can hit that subscribe button,
[01:07:39.360 -> 01:07:41.560] it means that more people can find these episodes.
[01:07:41.560 -> 01:07:43.800] It means that we can attract bigger names
[01:07:43.800 -> 01:07:48.400] with better conversations than ever before for you, because we're really ambitious for
[01:07:48.400 -> 01:07:51.920] the High Performance Podcast over the next few years. Thanks very much for listening
[01:07:51.920 -> 01:08:27.900] on behalf of Damien and the whole team. We'll see you soon. And when you download the Fred Meyer app, you can enjoy over $500 in savings every week
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