Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 17 Apr 2023 00:00:20 GMT
Duration:
1:05:44
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Phil Giles is the current Director of Football at Brentford Football Club, responsible for overseeing player recruitment, scouting and youth development. With over a decade of experience at Brentford, Phil shares how to have honest conversations with staff and players, what it means to be a good Director and how to share bad news with a team, among much more.
In this episode, Phil shares the things he does to make Brentford different to any other club. He discusses the qualities he looks for in players and how he determines if they will be the right fit. They discuss his relationships with risk, positivity and humility. Phil divulges the killer questions he asks his players.
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Sure, here is a summary of the podcast episode:
**Summary**
Phil Giles, Director of Football at Brentford Football Club, emphasizes the importance of having honest conversations with staff and players, fostering a positive and humble culture, and sharing bad news with the team in a constructive manner. He highlights the unique approach Brentford takes to player recruitment, focusing on character and fit within the team's values rather than solely on talent. Giles discusses the role of risk-taking, positivity, and humility in building a successful team. He emphasizes the importance of asking players killer questions to challenge their thinking and drive improvement.
**Key Points**
* **Honest Communication:** Giles stresses the significance of open and honest communication with staff and players, creating an environment where difficult conversations can be had constructively.
* **Positive and Humble Culture:** He promotes a positive and humble culture within the club, emphasizing the importance of humility and learning from mistakes.
* **Sharing Bad News:** Giles highlights the need to share bad news with the team in a clear and direct manner, while also providing support and guidance to help them overcome challenges.
* **Player Recruitment:** Brentford's approach to player recruitment is unique, prioritizing character and fit within the team's values over pure talent. Giles believes that players who align with the club's culture are more likely to succeed.
* **Risk-Taking, Positivity, and Humility:** Giles emphasizes the role of risk-taking, positivity, and humility in building a successful team. He encourages players to take calculated risks and learn from their mistakes, while maintaining a humble attitude.
* **Killer Questions:** Giles emphasizes the importance of asking players challenging questions, known as "killer questions," to stimulate their thinking and drive improvement. These questions push players to reflect on their performance, identify areas for growth, and set higher standards for themselves.
**Overall Message**
The overall message of the podcast is that building a successful team requires a holistic approach that encompasses honest communication, a positive and humble culture, thoughtful player recruitment, calculated risk-taking, and a commitment to continuous improvement. Giles' insights offer valuable lessons for leaders in various fields, highlighting the importance of creating a supportive and high-performance environment where individuals can thrive.
Phil Giles, Brentford Football Club's Director of Football, shares his insights on creating a unique club culture, identifying players who fit the team's ethos, and fostering a growth mindset within the organization.
1. **Building a Unique Culture:**
- Phil emphasizes the importance of setting clear principles and ideas for the club, ensuring everyone understands and works towards common goals.
- He highlights the value of having an owner who trusts the management team to make decisions, allowing them to focus on long-term success rather than short-term results.
- Phil stresses the significance of open-mindedness and humility, encouraging staff and players to be receptive to new ideas and willing to learn and grow.
2. **Recruiting Players:**
- Phil discusses the importance of evaluating a player's fit within the existing team dynamic, both in terms of personality and playing style.
- He emphasizes the need to build a balanced coaching department with diverse attributes, creating a cohesive and well-rounded team.
- Phil highlights the value of humility and open-mindedness in potential recruits, seeking individuals who are eager to learn and develop.
3. **Fostering a Growth Mindset:**
- Phil underscores the importance of creating a training ground environment that promotes learning, development, and improvement.
- He contrasts this with traditional work environments, where the focus is primarily on completing tasks rather than continuous learning.
- Phil emphasizes the value of humility and a willingness to learn from others, recognizing that everyone has something to contribute.
4. **Key Takeaways:**
- A strong club culture is built on shared principles, open-mindedness, humility, and a focus on long-term success.
- Recruiting players involves assessing their fit within the team's ethos, both in terms of personality and playing style.
- Fostering a growth mindset requires creating an environment that encourages learning, development, and continuous improvement.
- Humility and open-mindedness are essential qualities for individuals to contribute effectively to a team's success.
# Podcast Episode Summary: Brentford Football Club's Director of Football, Phil Giles
## Introduction:
Phil Giles, the Director of Football at Brentford Football Club, shares his insights on creating a unique club culture, identifying talented players, fostering positive relationships, and communicating effectively with staff and players.
## Key Points:
1. **Maintaining Standards:**
- Giles emphasizes the importance of maintaining high standards within the team, addressing behavioral issues promptly, and creating a supportive environment that allows for honest mistakes.
- He believes in fostering a culture where players are held accountable for their actions and where the club provides the necessary support to help them learn and grow.
2. **Recruitment and Character Assessment:**
- Giles discusses the challenges of evaluating a player's character during the recruitment process.
- He highlights the importance of looking beyond binary assessments of "good" or "bad" character traits and considering the player's overall personality, strengths, and weaknesses.
- Giles stresses the need for flexibility and adaptability in managing players with diverse character traits, emphasizing the importance of understanding and coaching them to work around their challenges.
3. **The Importance of Humility:**
- Giles emphasizes the significance of humility in creating a successful team culture.
- He believes that players who are humble and willing to learn from others are more likely to contribute positively to the team's success.
- Giles highlights the detrimental effects of a lack of humility, such as creating divisions within the team and undermining the overall team spirit.
4. **Effective Communication:**
- Giles stresses the importance of open and honest communication with staff and players.
- He believes that creating a culture where people feel comfortable expressing their thoughts and concerns is crucial for building a strong team.
- Giles emphasizes the need for active listening and understanding the perspectives of others, even when they differ from one's own.
5. **Dealing with Bad News:**
- Giles discusses the challenges of delivering bad news to players, such as informing them of their release from the club.
- He believes that honesty and transparency are essential in these situations and that it is important to treat players with respect and compassion.
- Giles highlights the importance of providing support to players who are struggling and helping them transition to the next stage of their careers.
6. **Adapting to Success:**
- Giles acknowledges the challenges of maintaining success and preventing complacency within a team.
- He emphasizes the need for constant evolution and adaptation, both in terms of the playing squad and the club's overall structure.
- Giles believes that clubs must avoid the temptation to rest on their laurels and must continue to strive for improvement to maintain their competitive edge.
7. **Personal Growth and Self-Awareness:**
- Giles reflects on the importance of personal growth and self-awareness in leadership roles.
- He believes that leaders need to be self-aware of their strengths and weaknesses and be open to feedback and learning from others.
- Giles emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with diverse perspectives and being willing to change and adapt based on new information.
## Conclusion:
Phil Giles's insights offer valuable lessons for leaders and managers in sports and beyond. His emphasis on humility, open communication, and adaptability highlights the importance of creating a positive and supportive environment for teams to thrive and achieve success.
Sure, here is a summary of the podcast episode transcript:
**Introduction**
* Phil Giles is the Director of Football at Brentford Football Club.
* He shares his insights on how to create a unique and successful football club.
**Key Points**
* Brentford's success is due to a combination of factors, including:
* A focus on culture and values.
* A commitment to developing young players.
* A willingness to take risks.
* A strong work ethic.
* Giles believes that the most important quality in a football player is character.
* He also emphasizes the importance of humility, curiosity, and empathy.
* Giles shares some of the key questions he asks his players, such as:
* "What are your goals?"
* "What are your strengths and weaknesses?"
* "How can you improve?"
* Giles believes that it is important to create a positive and supportive environment for players to thrive.
* He also stresses the importance of clear and open communication.
**Controversies and Insights**
* Giles acknowledges that Brentford's approach is not without its critics.
* Some people believe that the club is too focused on statistics and data.
* Others believe that the club is too willing to take risks.
* Giles defends Brentford's approach, arguing that it is the best way to achieve success.
* He also emphasizes the importance of being adaptable and willing to change.
**Overall Message**
* Giles' overall message is that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to success in football.
* Clubs need to find their own unique identity and values.
* They also need to be willing to take risks and adapt to change.
**Conclusion**
* Giles' insights provide valuable lessons for anyone interested in achieving success in football or any other field.
* His emphasis on culture, values, and hard work is particularly noteworthy.
* Giles' story is an inspiration to anyone who believes that anything is possible with hard work and dedication.
[00:00.000 -> 00:06.200] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast
[00:06.200 -> 00:08.440] that reminds you it's within.
[00:08.440 -> 00:12.460] Greetings to our listeners right across the world who tune in to us weekly so that we
[00:12.460 -> 00:17.860] can be your armour, your partner, your guide in a world that often feels so negative, so
[00:17.860 -> 00:19.600] divisive and confused.
[00:19.600 -> 00:25.440] Look, we really hope that these conversations remind you of your power, your potential,
[00:25.440 -> 00:27.080] and what we're all capable of.
[00:27.080 -> 00:29.480] So right now, allow Professor Hughes and myself
[00:29.480 -> 00:32.600] to unlock the mind of another fascinating guest
[00:32.600 -> 00:34.920] so they can be your teacher.
[00:34.920 -> 00:37.920] Today, this awaits you.
[00:37.920 -> 00:39.400] You know, when you talk about high-performance environment
[00:39.400 -> 00:41.240] and trying to just be better every day,
[00:41.240 -> 00:43.880] when your owner is so aligned to that idea,
[00:43.880 -> 00:48.320] and he's not judging the results himself he's judging the underlying performances and what's
[00:48.320 -> 00:52.280] happening on the ground day to day it means that actually people can be
[00:52.280 -> 00:57.240] confident actually be faithful to that belief which I think a lot of us believe
[00:57.240 -> 01:00.160] is probably the right way to go to try and forget about the results to try and
[01:00.160 -> 01:04.400] look at the underlying performances. Is there a moment in any business where
[01:04.400 -> 01:07.400] talent just trumps everything else and you just want
[01:07.400 -> 01:10.920] that guy in the building because he's Christian Eriksen and can do amazing things with the
[01:10.920 -> 01:15.480] football. Do you sometimes just forget about your values just to get the quality in the
[01:15.480 -> 01:16.480] door?
[01:16.480 -> 01:21.200] No, never. Had he been in some sense a bad character in that binary sense, you should
[01:21.200 -> 01:31.840] resist all temptation to bring them in. It will be a disaster. How much role do you think luck plays? And I had to think and said 80%. 80%? 80%
[01:31.840 -> 01:36.000] 80% luck. I think it's a lot higher than people would give it credit for. How much
[01:36.000 -> 01:40.320] luck is involved in what we see in football and how much luck plays a part
[01:40.320 -> 01:44.880] in shaping results and shaping careers and shaping decisions. So many things
[01:44.880 -> 01:45.440] that need to go right for you to be successful or can easily go wrong for apart in shaping results and shaping careers and shaping decisions. So many things that
[01:45.440 -> 01:48.960] need to go right for you to be successful or can easily go wrong for things to not work
[01:48.960 -> 01:49.960] out the way you want.
[01:49.960 -> 01:55.080] Well, this was a really enjoyable conversation to record actually. For those of you outside
[01:55.080 -> 01:59.360] of the UK, you might not know that my other job is as a football host. I've spent the
[01:59.360 -> 02:03.800] last 10 years presenting Premier League and Champions League football. And over the last
[02:03.800 -> 02:09.580] few years, one of the most fascinating, interesting and successful teams in English football has been Brentford.
[02:09.580 -> 02:13.740] They're based in West London, and they have risen through the ranks of English football,
[02:13.740 -> 02:18.040] and they're holding their own in the Premier League. They are shocking the big teams on
[02:18.040 -> 02:22.260] a weekly basis. And they haven't done it by breaking the bank, they have done it by being
[02:22.260 -> 02:28.920] sustainable, they've done it by creating a culture. They've done it through fostering self-belief and having a really clear plan.
[02:28.920 -> 02:33.800] But most interestingly of all, they haven't done it in the way that most other clubs have.
[02:33.800 -> 02:37.200] And I think so often in the world, you know, everyone just copies what everyone else has
[02:37.200 -> 02:40.840] done. Who are the first people to break the mould? Who are the bravest people to decide
[02:40.840 -> 02:49.000] that there might be another way? It's a risky thing, particularly when it comes to the money that's involved in Premier League football. So we decided to sit down
[02:49.000 -> 02:53.600] with Phil Giles, who's the Director of Football at Brentford. He has been there for a few
[02:53.600 -> 02:58.320] years now. He was brought in by the current owner, Matthew Benham, and he really is the
[02:58.320 -> 03:03.640] man who's overseen the transformation at this football club. And this was a really honest,
[03:03.640 -> 03:05.680] open, true conversation
[03:05.680 -> 03:10.080] about what Brentford have done, how they've done it, and most crucially, how you and the
[03:10.080 -> 03:14.520] life that you live can learn from the things that they've done. Because this is not a conversation
[03:14.520 -> 03:19.580] about football. This is a conversation about building cultures, taking people on the journey
[03:19.580 -> 03:26.480] with you and creating something really special. So I really hope you enjoy this. Don't forget, you can also watch these interviews
[03:26.480 -> 03:28.400] on YouTube as well as listen to them
[03:28.400 -> 03:30.040] wherever you get your podcasts.
[03:30.040 -> 03:32.440] And if you could do just one thing for us,
[03:32.440 -> 03:35.760] we simply ask you to click the subscribe button
[03:35.760 -> 03:37.100] wherever you get your podcasts.
[03:37.100 -> 03:38.480] It helps us to grow this channel
[03:38.480 -> 03:39.840] and the bigger we can grow it,
[03:39.840 -> 03:42.280] the bigger the caliber of guests that we can invite on
[03:42.280 -> 03:44.720] and the more impact that we can have for you.
[03:44.720 -> 03:46.760] I think you're gonna love this conversation.
[03:46.760 -> 03:47.760] Let's get straight to it.
[03:47.760 -> 03:52.580] Here is the director of football at Brentford, Phil Giles.
[03:57.560 -> 03:59.840] As a person with a very deep voice,
[03:59.840 -> 04:02.840] I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns,
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[04:30.440 -> 04:36.280] on getting your B2B message to the right people. So, does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn
[04:36.280 -> 04:42.360] instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest voice in the world? Yes, yes it does. Get
[04:42.360 -> 04:46.200] started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
[04:46.200 -> 04:51.100] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com
[04:51.100 -> 04:55.720] slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms
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[06:41.000 -> 06:43.000] Thank you very much for joining us.
[06:43.000 -> 06:44.000] My absolute pleasure.
[06:44.000 -> 06:45.620] So, let's start as we
[06:45.620 -> 06:51.240] always do. Your definition please of high performance. For me high performance is
[06:51.240 -> 06:56.200] the desire to want to be better every day, to want to continually improve with
[06:56.200 -> 07:00.280] your new ceiling and we can also talk about a high performance environment
[07:00.280 -> 07:04.400] which is hopefully sitting in Brentford's training ground now is a high
[07:04.400 -> 07:05.200] performance environment and how do you is a high-performance environment.
[07:05.200 -> 07:06.800] And how do you construct a high-performance environment?
[07:06.800 -> 07:09.000] What do you have to put in? What are the foundations you put in there?
[07:09.000 -> 07:14.200] But fundamentally, it's all in the mind about that desire and that willingness to reach the next level.
[07:14.200 -> 07:17.600] And I'm not sure you ever know whether you've reached your highest level.
[07:17.600 -> 07:19.200] You're always trying to get there, the highest level.
[07:19.200 -> 07:21.600] I'm not sure you ever realise or know when you're at that point.
[07:21.600 -> 07:25.520] You probably realise years later when you're well down the other side of the peak, right?
[07:25.520 -> 07:29.840] So how does a mindset of continual improvement
[07:29.840 -> 07:33.360] operate within a sport where it's all about the end result and it's all about
[07:33.360 -> 07:35.840] being judged on the points you have on the board at the end of the season?
[07:35.840 -> 07:40.800] Football's about outcome. Your life is about the process.
[07:40.800 -> 07:44.640] So that's the, I think you could hit on a key point there is about
[07:44.640 -> 07:45.040] actually for someone like me running a football club So that's the, I think you could hit on a key point there is about actually
[07:45.040 -> 07:50.040] for someone like me running a football club is not putting too much weight on
[07:50.040 -> 07:54.400] the outcome, not judging it based on results you know. One of the interesting things about
[07:54.400 -> 07:56.620] football is you go home after a game on a Saturday and then you can turn the
[07:56.620 -> 07:59.240] television on and on national news and it's got the league table and you know
[07:59.240 -> 08:02.780] you're effectively putting on the on the television a judgment on how you're
[08:02.780 -> 08:06.800] doing which at the minute for Prenfitt's going quite well which is good but it's kind of
[08:06.800 -> 08:09.600] trying to ignore that and trying to take that out there and say no that's not
[08:09.600 -> 08:13.520] that's not how we're going to judge our success we're going to judge it on the
[08:13.520 -> 08:17.680] the process we're putting in place and whether we believe that will
[08:17.680 -> 08:21.880] ultimately lead to success in the future not whether we're delivering it right
[08:21.880 -> 08:27.040] now. So you're a club that's almost been defined by having a very specific nid y byddwn ni'n ei ddarparu ar hyn o bryd. Felly dydych chi'n clwb sydd wedi cael ei ddefnyddio gan gael ffilosofiad yn y bwysig.
[08:27.040 -> 08:29.840] Felly, a allech chi ddweud i ni'r stori mwyaf
[08:29.840 -> 08:32.640] sy'n rhoi sylwadau i'n clywed
[08:32.640 -> 08:34.400] sut rydych chi'n gwneud pethau o ran y clwb?
[08:34.400 -> 08:35.840] Y peth pwysig rydyn ni'n ceisio ei wneud
[08:35.840 -> 08:37.840] yw ceisio meddwl y cyflawniadau
[08:37.840 -> 08:39.160] arbennig o sut rydym yn chwarae
[08:39.160 -> 08:42.480] ac yna gallu rhoi hynny i chwaraewyr
[08:42.480 -> 08:43.680] a chweithwyr staff
[08:43.680 -> 08:47.280] ac i'w gael eu hysbysu ar unrhyw le o'r lle rydyn ni'n meddwl. of relay that to players and to staff members and to keep them level on exactly where we think we
[08:47.280 -> 08:53.280] are. Probably the best example of that in terms of specific moments since I've been here, which is
[08:53.280 -> 08:58.080] best part of eight years, was when we lost the player final in the championship against Fulham.
[08:58.880 -> 09:02.080] And that was at the end of a COVID impacted season and there was a huge disappointment in
[09:02.080 -> 09:09.280] the dressing room. For me, my job was to be there in that moment, in the days following and remind people, you
[09:09.280 -> 09:12.920] know, that result, that one game is, you know, couldn't go either way.
[09:12.920 -> 09:17.000] Against Fulham, local rivals, very close level, you can win it, you can lose it, it's like
[09:17.000 -> 09:18.000] a coin flip.
[09:18.000 -> 09:21.000] So it's about reminding people and saying, look, we're going to go very quickly in that
[09:21.000 -> 09:23.480] season, straight into the next season.
[09:23.480 -> 09:28.160] Remember where our level is. We're already still one of the best teams in the championship right now.
[09:28.160 -> 09:30.800] We're going to get another chance within the next few months to be there again.
[09:30.800 -> 09:36.480] For me it's about saying, right, forget what happened, quickly as possible, we need to move on quickly.
[09:36.480 -> 09:41.600] But that's an important point that you mentioned there as well about the emotion as well as the logic.
[09:41.600 -> 09:48.880] So I get that you can look at it and you can look at the stats and the facts to know where you're operating and where you should be. But
[09:48.880 -> 09:53.840] then I'm interested in exploring the topic of intuition or feeling and
[09:53.840 -> 09:59.320] emotions as well and how that how that drives your decisions. In that moment in
[09:59.320 -> 10:03.400] that game I think few people really wanted to punch me in the face when I
[10:03.400 -> 10:05.360] was kind of calm and saying,
[10:05.360 -> 10:06.800] look, don't worry about it.
[10:06.800 -> 10:13.440] And my job is to be that calm, steady person and not get too emotional.
[10:13.440 -> 10:16.720] But what you do need is you do need those emotions in and around the group,
[10:16.720 -> 10:20.240] in the training ground and the rest of it, which is why it's so important that you get this nice balance
[10:20.240 -> 10:24.320] within the collection of stuff that you've got to have a little bit of emotion,
[10:24.320 -> 10:26.000] a little bit of calmness and people who are using processes in a calm, rational way, ym mhobl gweithredaeth y gallwch gael ychydig o ddewis, ychydig o ddewis,
[10:26.000 -> 10:29.000] a phobl sy'n defnyddio'r brosesau yn ffordd ddewis a'n dreulogol,
[10:29.000 -> 10:33.000] ond yna pobl sy'n darparu'r dewis ychydig o ddewis a'r dewis y byddwch chi'n ei gofyn.
[10:33.000 -> 10:37.000] Mae'r rheolwr Thomas Frankel yn cael ddewis da, ond hefyd gallwn gynnwys hynny,
[10:37.000 -> 10:39.000] ac mae gennym rai chwaraewyr sy'n gynnwys hynny, oherwydd mae'n sport dewisol
[10:39.000 -> 10:42.000] ac mae angen hynny i ddod i'r lefelau mwyaf ar y pêch, rwy'n credu.
[10:42.000 -> 10:45.880] Rwy'n credu bod hyn yn ddewis arwain arall i ni i ddewis ychydig o ddewis, to reach the highest levels on the pitch, I think. I think this is a fascinating area for us to sort of delve into a bit,
[10:45.880 -> 10:47.200] because you're operating in a sport
[10:47.200 -> 10:49.720] that is all about the result.
[10:49.720 -> 10:52.040] It's all about, you know,
[10:52.040 -> 10:53.740] in my other job as a football presenter,
[10:53.740 -> 10:56.360] I think we base a lot of our punditry on the scoreline.
[10:56.360 -> 10:57.880] And, you know, I remember a good example,
[10:57.880 -> 11:00.720] Manchester United in the final of European competition
[11:00.720 -> 11:02.320] a couple of years ago, went to a penalty shootout,
[11:02.320 -> 11:08.120] hit the post, didn't win the trophy. Then the conversation is the manager's failed. Well, the manager
[11:08.120 -> 11:13.120] was a, you know, the width of the post away from succeeding. So it's how we get the messaging
[11:13.120 -> 11:17.840] right. How do you share that message with people outside of the football club, the fans
[11:17.840 -> 11:23.000] I'm thinking of in particular here, that you can still buy into a journey even if at times
[11:23.000 -> 11:24.600] it looks like it's not going in the right direction?
[11:24.600 -> 11:26.800] I think the biggest challenge with our fans has been when we saw players. Not so much y gallwch chi i gyd ddod i mewn i'r ffordd, er mwyn i'r amser ddweud bod e'n mynd yn y ddrefn iawn? Rwy'n credu bod y gwagaf ar gyfer ein holl ffans
[11:26.800 -> 11:28.320] wedi bod pan gawson ni chwaraewyr.
[11:28.320 -> 11:29.560] Nid ychydig o gynnig.
[11:29.560 -> 11:32.160] Un o'r pethau llwyr am y weekend ym Mhrenifin
[11:32.160 -> 11:34.160] oherwydd y bydd y clwb ddim wedi bod o gyffredin
[11:34.160 -> 11:35.560] yn fwy na llwyddiannus dros y blwyddyn,
[11:35.560 -> 11:36.920] mae'r fans yn dda.
[11:36.920 -> 11:39.680] Yn y Campio, byddwn ni'n byw yn y rhan ffantais,
[11:39.680 -> 11:41.680] yn enwedig yn y Liga Prifysgol.
[11:41.680 -> 11:43.280] Mae'n anhygoel i ni.
[11:43.280 -> 11:44.560] Rwy'n credu bod eu bod wedi cael eu hysbrydoli
[11:44.560 -> 11:46.960] nid yw'n ymwneud â phobl yn cael gêm neu'r canlyniad o'r ddiddordeb yma. let alone the Premier League so so they're incredibly patient with us. I think where they've been frustrated is not so much on losing a game or you know
[11:46.960 -> 11:50.520] the odd result here and there is when we've sold players we sold our best
[11:50.520 -> 11:53.400] players year on year on year and you've tried to explain to them look there's a
[11:53.400 -> 11:57.920] rational, calm, thoughtful process behind that towards trying to achieve something
[11:57.920 -> 12:01.080] which is get promoted. We're a selling club, we'll have to sell but trust us
[12:01.080 -> 12:10.500] because we're gonna reinvest that and try and actually grow the club in a slow, steady, thoughtful, calm way.
[12:10.500 -> 12:17.000] Not worry too much about, oh we lost last Saturday or you know, I think Thomas lost 8 of his first 10 games, something like that.
[12:17.000 -> 12:22.500] And we didn't react to that, it was about, some of the fans were saying, get rid of the manager, you know, it's all bad.
[12:22.500 -> 12:25.240] But we just looked at the performances and the underlying training and the
[12:25.840 -> 12:27.840] feeling around the training ground was still good.
[12:27.880 -> 12:29.400] So why change a manager?
[12:29.400 -> 12:30.320] There's no need to do that.
[12:30.560 -> 12:32.320] Would you talk a bit more about that period then?
[12:32.320 -> 12:35.440] Because I think that, you know, when we, when we want listeners to this,
[12:35.440 -> 12:38.840] to understand why things at this football club are perhaps different to others,
[12:39.440 -> 12:42.120] many football clubs would have perhaps made a change of manager at that point.
[12:42.640 -> 12:44.160] What information are you looking at?
[12:44.400 -> 12:46.480] What are you learning from it? How are you dealing
[12:46.480 -> 12:50.960] with it to understand that results are telling the outside world one thing but
[12:50.960 -> 12:52.920] internally here you believe something else?
[12:52.920 -> 12:56.960] Yeah I think we're going back a few years in terms of when Thomas was there
[12:56.960 -> 13:00.120] but some of the stuff that is now I think fairly standard in football things
[13:00.120 -> 13:03.920] like the XG measurements are things you can look at and quite quickly say well
[13:03.920 -> 13:06.760] did you really underperform there you know the quality of the chances that you
[13:06.760 -> 13:10.600] made ultimately what you're trying to do is create more better quality chances
[13:10.600 -> 13:13.560] than your opponents that's fundamentally what football is about whether they go
[13:13.560 -> 13:16.880] in or not is exactly back to what you just said before about it might hit a
[13:16.880 -> 13:20.640] post and come out for some people that completely changes your understanding of
[13:20.640 -> 13:23.500] what happened in that game and you've got to try and strip that out and say no
[13:23.500 -> 13:27.840] no like did we create high quality chances? Did we prevent the opposition from conceding them?
[13:27.840 -> 13:32.400] That fundamentally is all that matters and if you can, you know, we've been measuring that for a
[13:32.400 -> 13:36.800] long time but I think that's now like I said more commonplace in football. If you focus more on that
[13:36.800 -> 13:41.600] and the underlying processes that went into delivering those outputs and less about the
[13:41.600 -> 14:05.440] actual result itself then I think you can be confident that at some point things will turn ond yn ystod y cyfraniadau hynny, ac yn fwy i'r cyfraniad y byddwn yn gallu bod yn ystyried, y byddwn yn meddwl y byddwn yn cael y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn ystod y cyfraniad hwnnw yn y byddwn ni'n ddigon cyffrous o ran y tîm. Ond dyna ni i'r dechrau o'r proses honno, oherwydd roedd e'n dweud yno,
[14:05.440 -> 14:06.880] ymlaen y bydd y chwaraewyr yn credu ei fod yn wir,
[14:06.880 -> 14:08.720] neu'r staff yn credu ei fod yn wir,
[14:08.720 -> 14:10.360] ond ar y dechrau hwn,
[14:10.360 -> 14:12.000] rydych chi'n siarad yn iaith
[14:12.000 -> 14:13.760] nad yw'n cyffredinol,
[14:13.760 -> 14:15.800] y byddwch chi'n dod â stats a ffyrdd,
[14:15.800 -> 14:17.560] fel golygau gofal,
[14:17.560 -> 14:20.480] sydd dim yn rhan o'r
[14:21.160 -> 14:23.120] llyfr o iaith
[14:23.120 -> 14:28.000] o gwmpas ymlaen fel Brantford.'r cwblhau'n haws yw,
[14:28.000 -> 14:29.000] ond beth ydych chi'n gwybod?
[14:29.000 -> 14:30.000] Cymaint o gaps ydych chi wedi cael?
[14:30.000 -> 14:33.000] Cymaint o gyfraith ydych chi wedi chwarae yn y Liga Premier?
[14:33.000 -> 14:36.000] Sut yw'r cyfle i ddweud a chyfrif eich gwybodaeth
[14:36.000 -> 14:39.000] heb y byddwn ni'n gallu gweithio arnyn nhw
[14:39.000 -> 14:42.000] yn eich gweld yn dda neu'n ddod yn ffwrdd yn ffwrdd?
[14:42.000 -> 14:43.000] Wel, rwy'n credu y byddwch chi'n rhaid sicrhau
[14:43.000 -> 14:44.000] y dywedwch chi'r gêm yn unig.
[14:44.000 -> 14:46.640] Er eich bod chi ddim wedi chwarae yn ei gilydd. Mae llawer o bobl sydd ddim wedi chwarae'r gêm yn ystod y lefel cyhoeddiol ond mae ganddo ddealliadau fawr to have versed in football? Well I think you've got to ensure you understand the game anyway, even if you haven't played it. I mean you know there's a lot of people who haven't played the
[14:46.640 -> 14:50.240] game necessarily to a high level but have a very strong understanding. A lot of coaches who've
[14:50.240 -> 14:53.600] done that you know gone on to play, you know coach at a much higher level than they've actually played
[14:53.600 -> 14:58.640] as. You know when I came into the club these some of these concepts and ideas everyone was fully
[14:58.640 -> 15:03.200] aware that our owner was was fully bought into you know some of this stuff and you know he's a
[15:03.200 -> 15:06.760] very very smart guy and it was you know so this was like very much a top-down approach.
[15:06.760 -> 15:09.440] And I came in here very much aligned to him
[15:09.440 -> 15:11.240] and in sync with him about sort of things
[15:11.240 -> 15:13.140] that we wanted to try and achieve.
[15:13.140 -> 15:14.320] But what you don't do is you don't walk
[15:14.320 -> 15:16.040] into a training ground with a laptop and a spreadsheet
[15:16.040 -> 15:18.560] and go, right, this is what I'm measuring you on.
[15:18.560 -> 15:20.440] There's a human side to it, which is,
[15:20.440 -> 15:21.280] sit down with people you get to know,
[15:21.280 -> 15:22.680] let me just have a cup of coffee with at night.
[15:22.680 -> 15:24.280] You just sort of, how do you see it?
[15:24.280 -> 15:25.080] What do you think? Where do you think we can get better? If you want to be a high performance environment people you get to know, let me just have a cup of coffee with them, right? You just sort of, you know, how do you see it? What do you think?
[15:25.080 -> 15:26.000] Where do you think we can get better?
[15:26.000 -> 15:27.800] You know, if you want to be a high performance environment
[15:27.800 -> 15:29.040] and you want to get better,
[15:29.040 -> 15:30.120] where do you think we can be better?
[15:30.120 -> 15:31.240] What do you see?
[15:31.240 -> 15:32.800] There's a lot of talent and ability in your stuff.
[15:32.800 -> 15:34.360] You need to try and get that out,
[15:34.360 -> 15:36.080] bring that to the fore and then start shaping that
[15:36.080 -> 15:37.600] and saying, right, well, I hear what you're saying.
[15:37.600 -> 15:38.600] I think we can do that.
[15:38.600 -> 15:39.840] I think we can measure it in this way.
[15:39.840 -> 15:40.680] What do you think?
[15:40.680 -> 15:41.520] You know, if we start,
[15:41.520 -> 15:43.560] you tell me we think we'd be better here and here and here,
[15:43.560 -> 15:47.520] but how can we ultimately measure whether we're improving in that area or not? And fundamentally, actually, ydych chi'n meddwl? Ydych chi'n dweud i mi y byddwn ni'n well yma a yma, ond sut y gallwn ni mewn gwirionedd medru a ydym yn gwella yn y ddal honno neu ddim? A'n ymgyrchu, mewn gwirionedd,
[15:47.520 -> 15:51.680] os ydym yn dechrau gwella yn y ddal honno, ydych chi'n credu y byddai hynny'n helpu ni i
[15:51.680 -> 15:54.000] dod yn ôl i'r pwynt o gwyneb? Yn y ddiwedd, yr hyn y gwnaethoch chi'n ei wneud,
[15:54.000 -> 15:56.080] rydych chi eisiau gwyneb y gêmau ar gyfnod hwnnw. Rydych chi eisiau credu y bydd
[15:56.080 -> 15:59.040] yr hyn rydych chi'n ei wneud yn mynd i'r ddifrif mewn gwirionedd ar y pêch a'r gêmau
[15:59.040 -> 16:03.520] sy'n gwyneb. Ond os ydych chi'n mynd i ddweud, fel pan oedd Mark Warburton yma
[16:03.520 -> 16:09.000] fel coach, a'n fy nghyfathrebu, ac efallai y byddwn yn gweithio'n dda ar hyn, i'w herio, os ydych,
[16:09.000 -> 16:13.000] roedd eich bod yn edrych ar y cyfansod o ble y tîm oedd yn y cymhau
[16:13.000 -> 16:21.000] a'i sylweddoli bod e'n debyg i'r ddiagon na fyddai'n ddifrifol o ble oedd y tîm yn gweithio ar hyn o bryd.
[16:21.000 -> 16:25.000] Nawr, gallaf meddwl, os ydych chi'n mynd i mewn i ystafell o gyfweliadurau
[16:25.000 -> 16:28.000] a chyfrifo'r sylwad hwnnw gyda nhw,
[16:28.000 -> 16:32.000] dyna ddim yn unig yn mynd i lawr yn dda.
[16:32.000 -> 16:35.000] Felly sut ydych chi'n ymgyrchu cymdeithas fel hyn, er enghraifft?
[16:35.000 -> 16:38.000] Wel, y dylid i mi fod yma ar y pryd.
[16:38.000 -> 16:40.000] Mark Warburn oedd y rheolwr cyn i mi ddod ymlaen.
[16:40.000 -> 16:45.400] Roedd yn rheolwr sy'n gwneud Brentford allan o'r L out of League One in 2014.
[16:46.400 -> 16:48.720] Did a fantastic job. And then by that Christmas, first year in the championship, I think
[16:48.720 -> 16:50.200] Brentford were like in the top two or three.
[16:50.200 -> 16:53.680] I mean, it was like an unbelievable success really in terms of getting them there.
[16:54.280 -> 16:58.680] And at that time, I think there was, you know, Matthew, the owner would have
[16:58.680 -> 17:02.400] wanted to put more investment in and keep going and feel like, you know, let's
[17:02.400 -> 17:07.320] try and get the underlying performance levels to levels, which we think we could compete in the Premier League at, where
[17:07.320 -> 17:10.720] maybe this has got us, where we've got to in terms of third is maybe a great
[17:10.720 -> 17:13.620] achievement but how do we push it beyond that and that's where it needs an
[17:13.620 -> 17:16.880] alignment between what the owner wants to achieve with the club and what this
[17:16.880 -> 17:20.240] where the staff are and what they're believing and that needs to
[17:20.240 -> 17:22.760] be woven together and kind of like I said you need to get on the ground and
[17:22.760 -> 17:27.200] spend a lot of time with people sort of understanding you know where not just from the top down saying you need to do this this and kind of like I said, you need to get on the ground and spend a lot of time with people to over understanding, you know, where not just from the top down saying,
[17:27.200 -> 17:28.200] you need to do this, this and this,
[17:28.200 -> 17:30.080] but also understanding where they think
[17:30.080 -> 17:32.280] they can take the club, where they believe,
[17:32.280 -> 17:33.400] because ultimately it's the staff and the players
[17:33.400 -> 17:34.880] who need to deliver it.
[17:34.880 -> 17:36.200] And then sit down and go, right,
[17:36.200 -> 17:40.240] how can we take some of those ideas and then deliver it
[17:40.240 -> 17:42.280] alongside this idea that we want to try and improve
[17:42.280 -> 17:44.560] the metrics, the underlying metrics of our performance
[17:44.560 -> 17:46.800] this year so that we can actually compete in the Premier League. Ultimately, Mark left and then I came in Yn ystod y syniad hwn, rydyn ni eisiau ceisio gwella'r metrigau, y metrigau sylfaenol o'n perfformiad ym mis hwn er mwyn i ni allu cymryd mewn y Llygaid Prifysgol.
[17:46.800 -> 17:50.240] Yn y pen draw, mae Mark wedi mynd ac roeddwn i'n dod ymlaen yn ystod y 2015
[17:50.240 -> 17:54.560] fel rhan o newid, roedd Blas Masangas yn y rheolwr hyfforddiant gyda fi ar y pryd
[17:54.560 -> 17:58.480] a ddewiswn ni newydd gweithwyr a rydyn ni wedi ceisio ei gynhyrchu
[17:58.480 -> 18:02.160] a efallai eisiau ei gynhyrchu yn fwy cyflym ar y dechrau, efallai, o ran...
[18:02.160 -> 18:04.160] Go on, dweud wrthym beth rydych chi'n ei ddweud o hynny.
[18:04.160 -> 18:08.000] Ie, oherwydd roedd yna dewis cymdeithasol yn ystod y dechrau, efallai, o ran... Go on, dweud wrthym beth ydych chi'n ei ymwybodol o hynny. Ie, oherwydd roedd yna ddewis cymdeithasol yn ystod y 2015,
[18:08.000 -> 18:11.000] roedden ni'n cyflawni'r cofnod newydd,
[18:11.000 -> 18:13.000] ymgyrch ym Mhrenhau Dychausen, ei hymgyrch.
[18:13.000 -> 18:16.000] Roedden ni'n cyflawni'r analyst newydd,
[18:16.000 -> 18:19.000] roedden ni'n cyflawni'r cofnod newydd arall i weithio gyda'i gilydd,
[18:19.000 -> 18:21.000] roedden ni'n cyflawni'r cofnod ymgyrch ymgyrch,
[18:21.000 -> 18:24.000] a oedd John O'Veer, sy'n ymweld â Spurs nawr,
[18:24.000 -> 18:29.000] a chyflwyno cyllid o bobl a chyflawni y pryd hefyd, John O'Veer, sydd ar y Spurs nawr, a chael cyfathrebu o bobl a chynrychiadau newydd.
[18:29.000 -> 18:34.000] Rydych chi'n dysgu llawer o'r broses hwnnw yn ôl i'r 20au. Rydych chi'n dysgu llawer o hynny.
[18:34.000 -> 18:38.000] Nid ydych chi'n gallu rhoi'r holl hyn i gyd ac ysgrifennu i fod yn gweithio'n gyflym.
[18:38.000 -> 18:45.720] Mae angen i chi ddod o hyd i ddod o hyd i ddysgu'r cyfathrebuau a'r bobl a'r hyn y gallant ddarparu a sut mae'r holl hyn yn mynd i'w gysylltu'n gilydd yn y dyfodol. the relationships and the people and what they can deliver and how that's all going to knit together in future.
[18:45.720 -> 18:47.920] And we found that when we threw it all together,
[18:47.920 -> 18:49.160] it just didn't work.
[18:49.160 -> 18:50.600] So we ended up changing our manager
[18:50.600 -> 18:52.560] after I think nine league games,
[18:52.560 -> 18:54.160] because it was a realization quite quickly
[18:54.160 -> 18:55.080] that what we'd thrown together
[18:55.080 -> 18:57.720] wasn't in that point going to take us forward.
[18:57.720 -> 18:59.680] And it wasn't, the performance networks weren't good enough
[18:59.680 -> 19:02.560] underlying the team on the pitch.
[19:02.560 -> 19:06.120] And how did you cope with that perceived failure?
[19:06.120 -> 19:08.100] Did you see it as that or not?
[19:08.100 -> 19:12.180] I think it was, in some sense, it wasn't a great start
[19:12.180 -> 19:15.580] because I was an outsider to football at the time,
[19:15.580 -> 19:16.760] it was my first job in football,
[19:16.760 -> 19:19.920] and you get the feeling that people think,
[19:19.920 -> 19:20.960] well, who's this guy coming in?
[19:20.960 -> 19:22.800] Thinks he knows about football, whatever.
[19:22.800 -> 19:24.040] It's disappointing that it doesn't work
[19:24.040 -> 19:25.120] quite as quickly as you think.
[19:25.120 -> 19:27.560] And obviously Brentford had got the playoffs the previous year,
[19:27.560 -> 19:28.880] and that was a big success for the club.
[19:28.880 -> 19:31.240] And then we start dropping down the table there quickly.
[19:31.240 -> 19:34.760] And you wouldn't start, people start thinking, can this guy do it?
[19:34.760 -> 19:36.840] Or, you know, maybe we need to change it again.
[19:37.120 -> 19:41.040] The most important thing there, the big thing that meant that we didn't really
[19:41.040 -> 19:44.800] doubt ourselves too much was the owner of this club, who's just, you know,
[19:44.800 -> 19:48.420] when people talk about Brentford and where they are now and they talk about Matthew and what he's done
[19:48.420 -> 19:51.060] I mean, I think they they link those two things together
[19:51.060 -> 19:55.060] But they don't realize how supportive he's been of the staff who've gone and delivered this over over a number of years
[19:55.060 -> 19:57.120] He because he's rock-solid in his belief
[19:57.120 -> 20:03.600] So what he wants to do it doesn't transmit that pressure down on me or on in this case Thomas a head coach
[20:03.600 -> 20:05.600] He's just a great owner in that sense.
[20:05.600 -> 20:06.600] He's not emotional.
[20:06.600 -> 20:08.720] He looks at things objectively.
[20:08.720 -> 20:10.960] He understands, he listens to what you're trying to do.
[20:10.960 -> 20:13.240] And so when you make a mistake, he doesn't automatically react and say, well, that was
[20:13.240 -> 20:14.240] a terrible mistake.
[20:14.240 -> 20:16.360] You know, you should be, should be some penalty or punishment for that.
[20:16.360 -> 20:18.040] He's like, okay, well, these things happen.
[20:18.040 -> 20:19.200] Let's, how are we going to correct this?
[20:19.200 -> 20:23.960] I'd love to talk about how, how he runs this place and the lessons that, you know, people
[20:23.960 -> 20:28.240] listening to this, whether they are working in a business or running a business can learn
[20:28.240 -> 20:32.400] from that. How often is he around, how does he communicate, how does he bring
[20:32.400 -> 20:36.320] people on the journey with him. I think this is a really interesting insight for
[20:36.320 -> 20:39.000] people because he doesn't do many interviews, he doesn't sit down with
[20:39.000 -> 20:42.160] people like this does he? No and you know he likes to keep to himself to himself, he
[20:42.160 -> 20:47.640] doesn't do many interviews, he's quite introverted in many ways, as I think maybe I am a little bit as well.
[20:47.640 -> 20:51.960] I speak to him on a regular basis but he's not at the training ground very often, he
[20:51.960 -> 20:54.400] might come down very occasionally to watch training.
[20:54.400 -> 20:57.960] I think he's very comfortable letting the people run the club for him.
[20:57.960 -> 21:01.760] He sets out kind of some basic principles that he'd like to see, you know, enacted and
[21:01.760 -> 21:03.680] some thoughts and ideas on football.
[21:03.680 -> 21:08.320] Things like how he wants us to be proactive on the pitch, he doesn't want
[21:08.320 -> 21:11.800] to, one of his big bugbears I'll be honest is there, is when you're leading
[21:11.800 -> 21:15.680] 2-1 with a minute to go and everyone drops off and and he's you know he's
[21:15.680 -> 21:18.120] like no I want to keep on attacking, I want to keep on scoring the third goal, I really
[21:18.120 -> 21:22.880] want to you know keep going for it and keep attacking and so just some basic
[21:22.880 -> 21:27.320] things like that and he wants to you know make rational logical decisions he wants to see the evidence behind the
[21:27.320 -> 21:31.360] thinking but he's got that trust in us to deliver it which is which is
[21:31.360 -> 21:34.640] invaluable because it means that you can just get on with it not feeling as if
[21:34.640 -> 21:38.360] somebody's looking over your shoulder ready to kind of have a go at you because
[21:38.360 -> 21:42.520] you didn't quite get it right and we all know that as we go through many many
[21:42.520 -> 21:44.880] years running a football club you'll make loads of mistakes because we've had a
[21:44.880 -> 21:48.240] few successes on players people forget all the players who didn't work out
[21:48.240 -> 21:52.960] I don't forget them I remember the failures quite a lot but he's never once come to us and said
[21:53.920 -> 21:57.680] you're an idiot why did you you know why did we go and do that you know it's always been a
[21:57.680 -> 22:03.040] team thing about right well we all believe it was the right idea maybe he had his doubts in
[22:03.040 -> 22:07.000] one case maybe I had my doubts in one case maybe maybe I had my doubts in one case, maybe Thomas had his doubts in one case, but it's never held against
[22:07.000 -> 22:10.960] people to say well, you know, you should don't do that again because he understands that
[22:10.960 -> 22:13.080] we're not all deliberately trying to make mistakes, right.
[22:13.080 -> 22:17.300] And that's all great stuff, but what does he also do to push you all and drive you on
[22:17.300 -> 22:18.300] and keep you honest?
[22:18.300 -> 22:20.160] I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure he does a lot of that.
[22:20.160 -> 22:21.160] Really?
[22:21.160 -> 22:24.360] No, no, no, not in a kind of an obvious way, let's say.
[22:24.360 -> 22:26.040] He's a Brentford fan, He wants the best for the club and
[22:27.080 -> 22:30.860] He's just very calm and relaxed about how it's gone over the last years
[22:30.860 -> 22:31.400] I mean
[22:31.400 -> 22:35.440] It's to some extent maybe come back in a couple years time when maybe it's not going so well
[22:35.440 -> 22:40.400] It's easy to be that sort of leader when things are going well, isn't it? Exactly and like yeah exactly and and but to be fair
[22:40.400 -> 22:46.320] He's never been a kind of a you know, shouting and and bawling and screaming when we had those more difficult moments.
[22:46.320 -> 22:47.560] He's always believed in what we're trying to achieve.
[22:47.560 -> 22:50.280] So if we take like a small view, a defeat, right?
[22:50.280 -> 22:51.280] Yeah.
[22:51.280 -> 22:52.280] He calls you after a defeat.
[22:52.280 -> 22:58.000] What sort of questions would he want answered or what would he be talking to you about?
[22:58.000 -> 23:00.560] So I sit next to him most of the times for games.
[23:00.560 -> 23:04.960] If we lose, but we play well, he recognizes that and he'll say, well, that was a really
[23:04.960 -> 23:05.280] good performance,
[23:05.280 -> 23:08.960] really good, really pleased with that. I think we lost first season in the Premier League last year,
[23:08.960 -> 23:13.200] we lost 1-0 to Chelsea and we absolutely battered them last 20 minutes, I think we hit the bar
[23:13.200 -> 23:17.680] on post-half three times, I mean we were absolutely, Mendy was unbelievable and he said I think that's
[23:17.680 -> 23:21.920] our best ever performance, you know that's the best we've ever played, you know almost really
[23:21.920 -> 23:27.280] really happy because he's seen you know know, the underlying metrics are really good on that game.
[23:27.280 -> 23:28.680] And that's just invaluable.
[23:28.680 -> 23:29.840] And then there'll be sometimes when you win
[23:29.840 -> 23:31.560] and you say, we're lucky there.
[23:31.560 -> 23:33.640] You know, we've all seen results in games
[23:33.640 -> 23:35.560] where you were lucky there and you'll not,
[23:35.560 -> 23:37.200] and then there'll be maybe something that's happened
[23:37.200 -> 23:39.080] here within the game, like,
[23:39.080 -> 23:43.040] where he feels that we didn't stick to our principles.
[23:43.040 -> 23:44.560] And that's the comment Neil made,
[23:44.560 -> 23:46.480] you know, I felt that we won, but we didn't stick to our principles. And that's the comment Neil made. I felt that we won, but we didn't stick to our principles.
[23:46.480 -> 23:47.760] Then we got a bit lucky.
[23:47.760 -> 23:50.160] He's judging it not on the results at all.
[23:50.160 -> 23:51.640] You know, when you talk about a high performance environment
[23:51.640 -> 23:53.480] and trying to just be better every day,
[23:53.480 -> 23:56.120] when your owner is so aligned to that idea,
[23:56.120 -> 23:58.200] and he's not judging the results himself,
[23:58.200 -> 24:00.280] he's judging the underlying performances
[24:00.280 -> 24:02.760] and what's happening on the ground day to day,
[24:02.760 -> 24:05.000] it means that actually people can be confident and actually be faithful to that belief, which I think a lot of us believe a beth sy'n digwydd ar y ffordd y bydd y gynlluniau'n cael eu cymryd. Mae'n golygu bod y bobl yn gallu bod yn hyderus
[24:05.000 -> 24:07.000] a bod yn ddiogel o'r credd,
[24:07.000 -> 24:09.000] rwy'n credu bod nifer o'n credd
[24:09.000 -> 24:11.000] y bydd y peth y byddwn ni'n ei wneud yn y ddebyg
[24:11.000 -> 24:12.000] i ddweud y peth y byddwn ni'n ei wneud yn y debyg
[24:12.000 -> 24:14.000] i ddweud y peth y byddwn ni'n ei wneud yn y debyg
[24:14.000 -> 24:15.000] yn y debyg
[24:15.000 -> 24:16.000] yn y debyg
[24:16.000 -> 24:17.000] yn y debyg
[24:17.000 -> 24:18.000] yn y debyg
[24:18.000 -> 24:19.000] yn y debyg
[24:19.000 -> 24:20.000] yn y debyg
[24:20.000 -> 24:21.000] yn y debyg
[24:21.000 -> 24:22.000] yn y debyg
[24:22.000 -> 24:23.000] yn y debyg
[24:23.000 -> 24:24.000] yn y debyg
[24:24.000 -> 24:25.680] yn y debyg yn y debyg yn y debyg yn y debyg yn y debyg rydyn ni wedi cael ennill ymlaen gyda chyfweithwyr y Llywodraeth, fel Frank Lampard neu Sean Dyche,
[24:25.680 -> 24:30.080] er enghraifft. Un o'r pethau y maen nhw wedi'u deall pan fydd pethau wedi mynd yn iawn
[24:30.080 -> 24:36.240] yw'n ymgyrch o'r rhanfodwyr o'r sefydliad, ac mae'r rhan fawr o'r rhanfodwyr
[24:36.240 -> 24:43.200] i'r staff chwaraeon wedi'u gwneud yn ymgyrch. Felly, a allech chi dynnu ni i'r proses
[24:43.200 -> 24:48.000] o sut rydych chi'n gael y gys-dysgu o'r mathau yw'r cyd-dysgu ynglyn â Matthew a Thomas?
[24:48.000 -> 24:53.000] Felly, pa cyfarfodydd, pa mor bwysig yw'r cyfarfodydd? Pa fath o sgwrs y mae gennych chi?
[24:53.000 -> 24:58.000] Felly, byddwn i'n sôn â Matthew ar ddau chwaraeon a'r ffenestr ar y ffenestr nawr a'r nesaf.
[24:58.000 -> 25:00.000] Dydw i ddim yn cael cyfarfodydd fformiol gyda ni.
[25:00.000 -> 25:03.000] Nid yw'n y gynulliad. Nid yw'n gweithio'n gweithredol yn y clwb, yn y pen draw.
[25:03.000 -> 25:06.200] Ar ôl y gêm, byddwn i'n sôn to Thomas, I'm sure, I'm not on those calls, but
[25:06.200 -> 25:09.900] I don't ever remember a situation where me, Thomas and Matthew have sat down and had a formal meeting.
[25:09.900 -> 25:11.400] In case you might go for dinner.
[25:11.400 -> 25:15.600] That's something we'll do, we'll go for dinner and we might invite one or two others with us.
[25:15.600 -> 25:18.600] And that's part of a social bonding and about
[25:18.600 -> 25:22.200] being part of a team as much as anything about, right, I want to say this, this and this
[25:22.200 -> 25:28.040] in a formal performance way, so to speak. I will have those more regular catch-ups with Thomas and sometimes
[25:28.040 -> 25:31.040] it'll be about what I think, sometimes it'll be about what Thomas thinks and sometimes
[25:31.040 -> 25:35.600] it'll be me often trying to be subtly impart what Matthew believes and often
[25:35.600 -> 25:40.880] trying to be less so and just say look I think Matthew wants to see us do
[25:40.880 -> 25:44.600] this this and this how can me and you go about achieving that for him or do we
[25:44.600 -> 25:47.080] think that's wrong do we need to to give that feedback? We don't think
[25:47.080 -> 25:50.840] that's the right approach to actually solving this particular problem.
[25:50.840 -> 25:54.920] And he listens to that? Yeah, he does. Yeah, exactly. He does. And
[25:54.920 -> 26:00.600] like open-mindedness is an absolutely key attribute in Matthew and in Thomas as well
[26:00.600 -> 26:03.720] actually as a coach. Go on, say more about that.
[26:03.720 -> 26:06.000] I could sit down with Thomas and have
[26:06.000 -> 26:09.600] a conversation and sometimes it might be something that I know you won't necessarily agree on and all
[26:09.600 -> 26:16.640] the rest of it but he would sit and listen and think about those those ideas and come back with
[26:16.640 -> 26:23.040] thoughtful replies. Sometimes in agreement, sometimes not and we'd have a really good conversation
[26:23.040 -> 26:45.280] around whether we think that's the right way to go forward or not. They're willing to be open-minded. yn ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystod ystudio ym Mhrifysgol John Hopkins, lle roedden nhw'n edrych ar ddrauwr sy'n cyfrif y mwyaf
[26:45.280 -> 26:46.880] yn rhag ddraurwr sy'n cyfrif y lleis,
[26:46.880 -> 26:50.080] ac roedd yn ddod o hyd i'r gwybodaeth
[26:50.080 -> 26:51.360] y mae'r drauwr yn ei ddilyn.
[26:51.360 -> 26:54.480] Roedd y gwahaniaeth yn y llwybr o amserau'r cyfrifiad.
[26:54.480 -> 26:56.080] Felly, y mwyaf o amser rydych chi'n rhoi i rywun
[26:56.080 -> 26:58.240] dim ond y cyfle i siarad eu gwirionedd
[26:58.240 -> 26:59.760] ac i'w brosesu,
[26:59.760 -> 27:00.480] mae'n golygu ein bod chi'n teimlo
[27:00.480 -> 27:03.680] yn seilio'n fwy fwy ag ymgyrch a'r gysylltiadau arno.
[27:03.680 -> 27:07.000] Felly, y gafech chi wneud hyn yn fformiol? Felly, pan fyddwch chi'n ymgu bod y byddwch yn teimlo'n fwy fawr o gysylltiadau a chyfathrebu arno. Felly, yw'n ymwneud â'r cyfnod hwn yn fwy fawr?
[27:07.000 -> 27:09.000] Felly, wrth i chi gwrthio â Thomas,
[27:09.000 -> 27:11.000] mae'n eithaf yn dweud, rwy'n mynd i'r rhan hwn,
[27:11.000 -> 27:12.000] nid wyf am eich cyrraedd.
[27:12.000 -> 27:15.000] Neu, yw'n ymwneud â'r cyfnod hwn yn fwy naturiol ac yn organol?
[27:15.000 -> 27:16.000] Mwy naturiol.
[27:16.000 -> 27:17.000] Dwi ddim yn gwneud hynny.
[27:17.000 -> 27:18.000] Dwi ddim yn gwneud hynny.
[27:18.000 -> 27:19.000] Dwi a'i gilydd yn gwrthi.
[27:19.000 -> 27:22.000] Rydym yn ceisio cael cysylltiad bob wythnos,
[27:22.000 -> 27:24.000] ond byddai'n fwy, mwy anffodus.
[27:24.000 -> 27:46.480] Byddwn ni'n gwneud y rhan hwnnw'n unig. Dywedwch, mae'r swyddfa hwn yn y ddarlun. Byddwn ni'n dod i mewn nesaf, byddwn ni'n caweud, dwi'n gweithio'n dda iawn, mae'n dweud, dwi'n gweithio'n dda meet them, why didn't we meet them, how are we going to improve next year, that's obviously
[27:46.480 -> 27:49.000] aligned to the recruitment process we go through in the summer.
[27:49.000 -> 27:52.600] But when I sit down and do that process, it's a very, very two-way process.
[27:52.600 -> 27:56.360] It is never, right, sit down with me, I'm going to give you all my feedback, I'm going
[27:56.360 -> 28:00.920] to tell you exactly what I think, it's very much, you come with your notes, I've come
[28:00.920 -> 28:03.920] with my notes, you're going to tell me what you think I need to do better.
[28:03.920 -> 28:05.760] We have a very two-way process on that, I think that's really
[28:05.760 -> 28:10.520] healthy. If it becomes dictatorial or top-down, when you hit more difficult
[28:10.520 -> 28:14.060] moments I think it's harder to maintain that strong relationship if you feel
[28:14.060 -> 28:17.680] that somebody's kind of having, you know, got it in for you, having a go at you a little bit.
[28:17.680 -> 28:22.020] What kinds of targets do you set and how do you marry them up with, well, we're
[28:22.020 -> 28:27.480] just getting better all the time, you could finish 20th in the Premier League every area of this football club could have
[28:27.480 -> 28:29.760] improved so would that be success or failure?
[28:29.760 -> 28:36.080] That would be success if we did everything better and finished 20th but
[28:36.080 -> 28:40.240] maybe maybe four of our players got broken legs you know maybe maybe there's
[28:40.240 -> 28:44.400] a we played Arsenal a couple of weeks ago we scored an offside goal right I mean it
[28:44.400 -> 28:48.040] can happen right there's so much human error Arsenal a couple of weeks ago, we scored an offside goal, right? I mean, it can happen, right? There's so much human error that can happen in the game.
[28:48.040 -> 28:51.480] So for me, human nature means that we'll look at finishing 20th and get relegated as a big
[28:51.480 -> 28:52.480] disappointment.
[28:52.480 -> 28:57.000] Of course, we'll be massively disappointed and upset and the players will be upset and
[28:57.000 -> 28:58.000] all the rest of us.
[28:58.000 -> 29:00.720] I would probably have quite a big job to convince people we've been successful.
[29:00.720 -> 29:03.120] But in that case, you certainly wouldn't want to change anything.
[29:03.120 -> 29:05.500] You wouldn't want to change coaches, change manager, whatever.
[29:05.500 -> 29:08.000] I'd hope Matthew wouldn't want to change me, frankly.
[29:08.000 -> 29:12.500] It's just so important not to get too carried away with results, you know, week to week, day to day.
[29:12.500 -> 29:19.500] Will we ever exist in a world, because, you know, I get very frustrated with the way football is viewed from the outside.
[29:19.500 -> 29:22.500] That, you know, winning is successful, losing is failure.
[29:22.500 -> 29:27.120] I'm probably guilty of encouraging this on the television in my other job as well,
[29:27.120 -> 29:29.840] where, you know, if a team wins a game of football, we praise them.
[29:29.840 -> 29:31.920] If they lose, then we criticize them.
[29:32.300 -> 29:35.920] Do you hear, not just you personally, but within the whole sets about Brentford,
[29:35.920 -> 29:40.240] do you have a sense of frustration with the way the game is talked about?
[29:40.240 -> 29:43.640] And could we all be doing more to change the narrative around football?
[29:43.640 -> 29:47.620] Or is it just the way it is? I think it's the way it is because it's an entertainment in
[29:47.620 -> 29:52.260] the day. Your job is to entertain the audience as much as the game
[29:52.260 -> 29:55.840] itself and that doesn't that's not sitting there saying well there was a
[29:55.840 -> 29:58.220] bit of luck there and that was a random thing and it hits his knee but it might
[29:58.220 -> 30:00.940] not have hit his knee and it goes to the post what if it had gone in there'll be a
[30:00.940 -> 30:08.680] different get what so it doesn't matter in the day that's not That's not the job of the media and the entertainment that football provides.
[30:08.680 -> 30:12.440] That's more like my job to try and, you know, dig into the underlying
[30:12.440 -> 30:16.020] narrative and actually what really is going on and what is luck and what isn't luck.
[30:16.020 -> 30:21.160] Let's talk about luck then. Often people who are in a senior position like you
[30:21.160 -> 30:24.040] like to tell the rest of the world that luck doesn't have a part to play, it's
[30:24.040 -> 30:26.080] all their brilliant decisions and their
[30:26.080 -> 30:31.560] great ideas and you know setting the tempo and the culture. How big a role
[30:31.560 -> 30:36.600] does luck play? That's really interesting you ask that question because I had
[30:36.600 -> 30:41.360] a former League One manager came to the game with me last Saturday we played
[30:41.360 -> 30:47.760] Crystal Palace at home. I have awy'n cael y bocs yn y stadiwm, rydw i'n cael oherwydd rydw i'n hoffi
[30:47.760 -> 30:51.160] cyflawni, neu'n dweud, bobl ddiddorol sy'n dod i'r gêm.
[30:51.160 -> 30:53.760] Rwy'n cael nhw i gyd yn y bocs, ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn creu sefydliad dda
[30:53.760 -> 30:57.280] o bobl sy'n cyflawni pobl eraill, ac mae cyfathrebu ddiddorol yn mynd ymlaen.
[30:57.280 -> 30:59.680] Rhywun ddim yn cael y cofnod o'r sport arall yn dod i mewn,
[30:59.680 -> 31:02.080] ac rwy'n gallu cyflawni, efallai, y cofnod o'r bwydau,
[31:02.080 -> 31:04.480] i ddod i mewn a dweud, rwy'n cael y person hwn i ddod i gael y siarad.
[31:04.480 -> 31:07.120] Rwy'n credu mai dyna'r ffordd dd I think that's an interesting way to introduce people. So anyway, last Saturday,
[31:07.120 -> 31:11.360] someone who was a league manager until this season lost their job. And obviously that sparks
[31:11.360 -> 31:16.160] some interesting conversations about last season, it went very well for them. What happened? Why was
[31:16.160 -> 31:21.040] that so good? And then this season, it all seemed to fall apart. And then, and then suddenly they
[31:21.040 -> 31:24.160] shone the door. And you think from an outsider's point of view, you look and think that was a bit,
[31:29.120 -> 31:31.920] you were the golden boy last year. And then this year, you're out the door and you think from an outsider's point of view, you look and think that was a bit... You were the golden boy last year and then this year you're out the door and how does that happen? And he asked me an interesting question after the game, he said,
[31:31.920 -> 31:35.280] you know, how much role do you think luck plays?
[31:35.280 -> 31:38.400] And I had to think and said, 80%.
[31:38.400 -> 31:41.200] 80%? 80%. 80% luck.
[31:41.200 -> 31:49.360] I don't know what the number is, but I think it's a lot higher than people really give it credit for. How much luck is involved in what we see in football and how
[31:49.360 -> 31:54.200] much luck plays a part in shaping results and shaping careers and shaping decisions.
[31:54.200 -> 31:59.360] He said, yeah, I used to not believe it all, but when I lost my job, I called a few people
[31:59.360 -> 32:02.960] just for some advice and guidance and they said, you know, we thought about you, you
[32:02.960 -> 32:29.080] were a bit unlucky then. He was like, oh, dwi ddim yn dweud, dwi ddim yn dweud, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, d successful or can easily go wrong for things to not work out the way you want. So let me ask you this then, if that manager who lost his job last season was
[32:29.080 -> 32:31.920] at this football club and had the same results last season and this season,
[32:31.920 -> 32:37.640] would you have made the same decision? It's hard to say specifically, yes I know
[32:37.640 -> 32:41.520] that question, but I think the sort of things you'd look at would be what
[32:41.520 -> 32:48.840] changed between last season and this season and which of those factors were suddenly were in the manager's control. You know, what, what, what are you changing
[32:48.840 -> 32:53.260] it for? The easy decision is to change the manager, but how many times do we see clubs
[32:53.260 -> 33:01.000] change a manager, but nothing really changes.
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[36:13.700 -> 36:20.260] So what you need to do then is build an environment here of growth mindset individuals, right?
[36:20.260 -> 36:23.920] How do you recruit for that? I think there's some good lessons here, hopefully, for people,
[36:23.920 -> 36:28.400] again, running their own businesses who want to change the culture or want to drive a specific
[36:28.400 -> 36:31.600] culture. How do you make sure you're bringing the right people in?
[36:32.960 -> 36:36.000] I think having worked in football and outside of football I think there's a lot that you can
[36:36.000 -> 36:41.120] learn from both. I think the recruitment part of football is such a, it's just so unbelievably
[36:41.120 -> 36:46.400] important that it really drives a lot of what happens down here, both
[36:46.400 -> 36:51.360] in terms of recruiting your staff and in players. So I think it's unbelievably important to think
[36:51.360 -> 36:56.480] about how somebody fits in, in terms of a player, how they fit into the existing set of players.
[36:56.480 -> 37:00.240] It's also important with staff to think about what personality traits and what characters and
[37:00.240 -> 37:04.400] what ability do they bring to the table that fits into what you've already got in place.
[37:04.400 -> 37:07.920] How do you find that out? A lot of phone calls in football, a lot of
[37:07.920 -> 37:10.320] ringing people and saying what's this person like, what do they bring to the
[37:10.320 -> 37:12.920] table and obviously what you're trying to do, so for example when you build a
[37:12.920 -> 37:17.160] coaching department you're trying to build a balanced group of individuals
[37:17.160 -> 37:20.160] who have lots and lots of different attributes which work as a whole.
[37:20.160 -> 37:24.280] So for example some coaches are very detail minded, they spend a lot of
[37:24.280 -> 37:27.000] time, of course laptop coaches, they spend a lot of time working through Mae rhai cofnodwyr yn ystod y deunyddau, mae'n parhau i'w gwneud, yn enwedig yn y cofnodwyr laptop,
[37:27.000 -> 37:32.000] maen nhw'n parhau i weithio drwy clipiau a rhowch clipiau i chwaraewyr, yn y deunyddau.
[37:32.000 -> 37:36.000] Ond efallai nad yw eu personaethu a'u naturiadau'n ymdrechus yno.
[37:36.000 -> 37:40.000] A dydyn ni ddim eisiau teimlad o cofnodwyr laptop, a dyna'r rhaid.
[37:40.000 -> 38:05.760] Byddwch chi'n rhaid i gyd ddod o hyd i'r holl atributau pwysig ar y peth sut ydych chi'n ymwneud â chwaraewyr a chael eu cyflwyno ar y pêch. Yr un peth yw nad ydych chi am llawer o chwaraewyr sydd yn ystod y clasig, yn ystod y manwyr, yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai sydd yn ystod y rhai coached, well-organized team of individuals. So what you're looking for is people who complement
[38:05.760 -> 38:07.000] each other well across the team
[38:07.000 -> 38:09.120] in many different personality attributes,
[38:09.120 -> 38:11.160] all of whom have the share, the belief that,
[38:11.160 -> 38:13.720] you know, it's about coaching, it's about development,
[38:13.720 -> 38:14.560] we can all improve.
[38:14.560 -> 38:16.640] And the interesting thing about football
[38:16.640 -> 38:19.040] is a training ground is fundamentally that environment,
[38:19.040 -> 38:20.120] or it should be that environment, right?
[38:20.120 -> 38:22.120] It should be the environment where we're all coming here
[38:22.120 -> 38:23.280] to work and improve.
[38:23.280 -> 38:24.400] It's actually very different if you think about
[38:24.400 -> 38:25.760] a football club than if you think about
[38:25.760 -> 38:26.760] another walk of life.
[38:26.760 -> 38:34.040] You know, 90% of your time is spent doing the work and maybe 10% is spent training and
[38:34.040 -> 38:38.080] learning and educating yourself and doing a course or reading a book or trying to improve
[38:38.080 -> 38:39.080] what you do.
[38:39.080 -> 38:43.320] Whereas a football club, actually, you know, 80-90% of the time is at a training ground
[38:43.320 -> 38:46.000] where we're all trying to learn to improve and develop and grow. And 10% is actually on a Saturday where you actually put that in practice and actually 80-90% o'r amser yw ar y rhaglen ymwneud â'r holl ddweud ynghylch i wella a datblygu a'i gwella.
[38:46.000 -> 38:51.000] Ac mae 10% ar y satwrdyn, lle rydych chi'n gwneud hynny mewn gwirionedd ac yn dod y swydd ar y rhaglen.
[38:51.000 -> 38:57.000] Felly rwy'n credu bod y rhaglen ymwneud â chwaraeon ffotbol yn ymwneud â ddysgu.
[38:57.000 -> 39:00.000] Ac mae'r meddyliad o ddewis yn bwysig os ydych chi'n dod yma.
[39:00.000 -> 39:08.000] Nid i dod yma a meddwl, dwi ddim yma i ddysd y byddwn i'n ymwneud â gweithio a datblygu. Ond rydych chi mewn lle gwych yn ffasanol lle rydych chi wedi gweithio allan o sport
[39:08.000 -> 39:13.000] yn y byd gwyliadol, i ddefnyddio'r term, ac yna rydych chi wedi gweithio mewn sport elitol hefyd.
[39:13.000 -> 39:20.000] Ac rwy'n credu bod pobl yn ofn defnyddio'r metaforaeth o'r tîmau sport a'i ceisio ei ddefnyddio i'r byd busnes.
[39:20.000 -> 39:27.280] Ond mae cwp o wahanol gwahanol, yw oes, yw eich bod chi'n cael y ddysgwyrfa mewn bynau ffundifol, yw'n ddim? Yn un, mae gennych law arweinyddiaeth yn y byd gwirioneddol,
[39:27.280 -> 39:29.960] felly rhai o'r cyfnodau y gallwch ei weld yn y gynulliad,
[39:29.960 -> 39:32.360] y byddwch chi ddim yn gwneud ymlaen â Mwstr,
[39:32.360 -> 39:34.480] allan o hynny, ond hefyd mae gennych gontractau
[39:34.480 -> 39:36.280] lle gallwch chi ddod o bobl yn fwy'n hwyr
[39:36.280 -> 39:38.120] yn y byd chwaraeon na'r gallwch,
[39:38.120 -> 39:42.160] lle mae law arweinyddiaeth yn ymwneud â'r byd y byddwch chi'n ei gynllunio.
[39:42.160 -> 39:43.440] Felly i bobl sy'n clywed hynny,
[39:43.440 -> 39:45.200] sy'n gweithio yn y byd gwirioneddol,
[39:45.200 -> 39:48.160] a phan maen nhw'n edrych i'w hymwysu i bobl i ymuno â'u hwyl,
[39:49.040 -> 40:06.960] beth yw'r perthynasau y byddwch chi'n ymdrechu, gan weithio i mewn i'r ddau, i ddweud, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi'n meddwl, dwi I think that's a minus I talked about before and also lying to humility. I think if you, if you want to be somebody who can add to a team, you need to be
[40:06.960 -> 40:08.800] humble enough to come in that team and feel that, right.
[40:08.880 -> 40:10.000] I'm here to also learn.
[40:10.720 -> 40:12.120] There's a two way process there.
[40:12.640 -> 40:15.040] Um, so you need to be humble as you, as you go in.
[40:15.040 -> 40:16.080] I think that's, that's key.
[40:16.080 -> 40:20.080] And I think a lot of times when, when I was younger and we're in, not in a football
[40:20.080 -> 40:26.640] environment, sometimes you can get too focused on recruiting talent and attributes, things,
[40:26.640 -> 40:32.160] you know, what can they actually do that the business does. So if you're developing software,
[40:32.160 -> 40:37.760] can they write good software? And a lot less time is spent delving into, right, what is this person,
[40:37.760 -> 40:41.840] what is this person like as an individual? Are they open-minded? Are they humble? Are they going
[40:41.840 -> 40:45.320] to grow and develop? Are they going to come in and say it, say at the same level?
[40:45.320 -> 40:46.560] Or are they going to actually be able to grow
[40:46.560 -> 40:47.800] and turn it to something else with this
[40:47.800 -> 40:49.920] and take them to a new level individually?
[40:49.920 -> 40:50.760] Or are they going to come in
[40:50.760 -> 40:53.240] and we've all worked with people who were maybe, you know,
[40:53.240 -> 40:55.320] have attributes that you don't like, a bit lazy,
[40:55.320 -> 40:56.160] a bit arrogant.
[40:56.160 -> 40:57.000] You know, these are,
[40:57.000 -> 40:59.840] when you bring people into a business and they're like that,
[40:59.840 -> 41:01.320] you know, it doesn't matter whether it's football
[41:01.320 -> 41:02.880] or anything else,
[41:02.880 -> 41:04.280] you don't want to work with those people.
[41:04.280 -> 41:05.760] The thing about football, I think that I've learned
[41:05.760 -> 41:08.440] is we spend a lot more time looking at those attributes
[41:08.440 -> 41:12.540] just as much as some of the more technical skills.
[41:12.540 -> 41:14.380] No player you buy is ever perfect,
[41:14.380 -> 41:15.760] but what you're looking for is somebody
[41:15.760 -> 41:17.320] who you think you can develop,
[41:17.320 -> 41:18.400] especially a club like Brentford,
[41:18.400 -> 41:20.320] you're never going to get the finished final player.
[41:20.320 -> 41:22.240] You want to get a player who you think can develop,
[41:22.240 -> 41:24.080] become something slightly better.
[41:24.080 -> 41:47.320] And that's that humility and that open-mindedness to want to go on that process and actually develop themselves y byddwch chi'n meddwl yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn ddatblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, yn datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datblygu, in datbly playing side at this point because sometimes players can get carried away with their own success,
[41:47.320 -> 41:51.880] the trappings, the media interest and things. How do you deal with behaviour
[41:51.880 -> 41:54.340] that isn't a standard that's expected?
[41:54.340 -> 41:56.640] Coming into football as a newcomer I didn't
[41:56.640 -> 42:00.360] realise quite how young a lot of players are. You know, these are young guys,
[42:00.360 -> 42:08.920] they're immature, I mean, I don't know what time your mind probably matures, it's probably mid-20s right? Yeah so it's a lot of footballers
[42:08.920 -> 42:12.080] you're working with and the ones who are developing are all younger than that. So
[42:12.080 -> 42:17.480] the question really is, is it, have they made an honest mistake? Because we all
[42:17.480 -> 42:20.920] make honest mistakes and how do you deal with that in a sympathetic way? You know
[42:20.920 -> 42:23.200] when they've let people down, I've had it before where they've let people down,
[42:23.200 -> 42:26.360] sometimes you'll go right you let us down all the rest of the years, he's a fine you know
[42:26.360 -> 42:30.200] that's what a bit different to, the difference between football and outside world is you don't
[42:30.200 -> 42:33.480] find your staff in there and I suppose here it's pretty normal right. But I think you've got to
[42:33.480 -> 42:37.680] you've got to allow for errors, you've got to fundamentally understand that you know the
[42:37.680 -> 42:42.360] motives behind mistakes you know was it a deliberate act of sabotage or was it just
[42:42.360 -> 42:49.360] it just an honest mistake. And something else that comes up in sort of an aligned point I think in terms of recruiting people is when you
[42:49.360 -> 42:55.160] recruit a player often it'll be it'll be an analysis of the character and it'll be, sometimes
[42:55.160 -> 42:59.480] a bit too binary, it'll be they're a great character or they're not a great character
[42:59.480 -> 43:02.720] and that's that you end up with this binary kind of thing and what I've learned is that
[43:02.720 -> 43:08.160] most people never like that, that most people sit in this kind of grey area of having their faults and their strengths
[43:08.720 -> 43:15.920] and often those, in quotes, not great character traits are manageable or you can work around it
[43:15.920 -> 43:19.680] if you understand that person and you can coach them and not only they come in and they've got
[43:19.680 -> 43:24.240] that humility, you can kind of work around some of those issues. And if someone lets themselves down,
[43:24.880 -> 43:27.160] do you look at yourselves and go right what could
[43:27.160 -> 43:29.960] we have done better in this situation in terms of our support for them?
[43:29.960 -> 43:30.960] Yes, 100%.
[43:30.960 -> 43:40.200] So can I talk about two examples of recruitment? One young footballer, one experienced pro,
[43:40.200 -> 43:44.960] Christian Eriksen had his cardiac arrest. It's a good argument without that he would
[43:44.960 -> 43:47.400] never have ended up at Brentford Football Club, right?
[43:47.400 -> 43:49.600] Pretty good argument, yeah. I think that's fair to say.
[43:49.600 -> 43:58.400] So, when the opportunity arises to sign someone who we all know is a world-class footballer,
[43:58.400 -> 44:02.100] do you still do all of the same checks to ask whether they're a good person?
[44:02.100 -> 44:06.960] Or is there a moment in any business where talent just trumps everything else and you just want that
[44:06.960 -> 44:09.980] guy in the building because he's Christian Eriksson and can do amazing
[44:09.980 -> 44:14.840] things with a football regardless of and by all accounts he is a good guy but if
[44:14.840 -> 44:20.800] he was a toxic individual do you sometimes just forget about your values
[44:20.800 -> 44:25.360] just to get the quality in the door? No, never. He's a good example.
[44:25.360 -> 44:30.560] Thomas had worked with him years earlier in the youth age groups at Denmark, so going back to
[44:30.560 -> 44:35.280] he knew inside out and obviously being Danish and with a big Danish connection in this club it was
[44:35.280 -> 44:39.360] easy to do the research in terms of what is he like, not that we needed to do much of it, but
[44:39.360 -> 44:50.280] had he been in some sense a bad character in that binary sense, you should resist all temptation to bring them in. It will be a disaster. Because? Because I think the
[44:50.280 -> 44:54.000] players around him just won't won't buy into that. They'll be, they'll create
[44:54.000 -> 44:57.760] divisions, it'll create you know football's fundamentally a team sport, you
[44:57.760 -> 45:00.120] need everyone pulling completely in the same direction. As soon as you get
[45:00.120 -> 45:05.400] divisions in there, that's not great. I think they can provide the wrong
[45:05.400 -> 45:08.440] example to some of the young players who are learning from some of the senior
[45:08.440 -> 45:11.420] pros. You want your senior pros to be absolutely top professionals but then
[45:11.420 -> 45:14.480] you know then it starts having a knock on consequence. I think things can change
[45:14.480 -> 45:18.400] very quickly in football and so you put one bad individual, one bad egg in there,
[45:18.400 -> 45:22.200] I think people underestimate how much damage that can do if you get that wrong.
[45:22.200 -> 45:26.600] So that's experienced player and let's talk about a much younger player,
[45:26.600 -> 45:28.320] obviously high profile because of his dad,
[45:28.320 -> 45:31.920] Romeo Beckham, who's involved in Brentford in the B team.
[45:31.920 -> 45:35.640] Would you give us an idea of how much work would go into making a decision
[45:35.640 -> 45:38.120] to bring a player like that through the door?
[45:38.120 -> 45:41.800] And again, at no time is it based on the name on the back of the shirt
[45:41.800 -> 45:43.640] and the value that brings.
[45:43.640 -> 45:47.320] No, it was interesting because going back to the first week of January, we brought a
[45:47.320 -> 45:50.960] player called Kevin Sharder in and it's a loan but it's likely to become permanent in
[45:50.960 -> 45:55.560] the summer and it'll be a record transfer for us and the amount of media attention we
[45:55.560 -> 46:01.840] got for that was absolutely zero and about two days later we brought Romeo in on a loan
[46:01.840 -> 46:09.720] from Inter Milan for our B team, you know. And honestly it was like one of the most read stories that day on the websites and you know
[46:09.720 -> 46:14.520] on Twitter and honestly and it wasn't a piaster in any way but I wish it had been because
[46:14.520 -> 46:17.040] it was a really good one, you know, if we'd actually thought about it.
[46:17.040 -> 46:22.720] But the thought that went into Romeo is obviously we have a relationship in football, he was
[46:22.720 -> 46:25.120] looking for a place to train in England
[46:25.120 -> 46:26.760] because he's an Inter-Miami player.
[46:26.760 -> 46:28.360] So out of the season, can he come and train once?
[46:28.360 -> 46:30.440] We said, yes, of course we'll let him train,
[46:30.440 -> 46:33.120] but still not fundamentally not looking past that process
[46:33.120 -> 46:35.080] of it, you know, is he going to add to the environment
[46:35.080 -> 46:36.520] as a player, but is he going to add to the environment
[46:36.520 -> 46:37.360] as a character as well?
[46:37.360 -> 46:39.000] What's his character like?
[46:39.000 -> 46:41.360] Had Romeo come in and been like, well, I'm a Beckham,
[46:41.360 -> 46:42.440] that would have been a disaster for us,
[46:42.440 -> 46:43.400] but he's not like that at all.
[46:43.400 -> 47:09.000] He's also like his dad, I think, mae'n dweud, mae'n ddiddorol i mi ddod o'r ffordd ar y peth y mae Jake wedi'i ddweud yno, ond, Phil, rwy'n gofyn o drafodaeth rydyn ni'n ei gael gyda gwestiynau ar y podcast
[47:09.000 -> 47:15.000] sy'n ein hysgrifennu i ni sut un o'r heriau y gafodd ei wneud fel gynllunwyr o'r tîm
[47:15.000 -> 47:20.000] oedd gael pobl yn ymdrechu pan oedd ganddyn nhw lefel o gyffredin.
[47:20.000 -> 47:25.000] Y clwb y gafodd ei fod yn ei gael, mae'r chwaraewyr wedyr yn fwyna'r clwb, os oes yn ddiddorol.
[47:25.000 -> 47:28.000] Roedd yn teimlo, pan ddechreuodd eu llwyrio'r hyder,
[47:28.000 -> 47:32.000] oherwydd roeddent wedi datblygu yn y Ligau y roedden nhw yn,
[47:32.000 -> 47:36.000] a dechreuodd y chwaraewyr mynd i'r ail gyfresgolion o ffwrdd ffwrdd
[47:36.000 -> 47:38.000] a gweld beth eraill oedd ar gyfer,
[47:38.000 -> 47:41.000] dyna pan dechreuodd eu bod yn debyg ychydig yn fwy anodd.
[47:41.000 -> 47:43.000] Nid ydym yn cymryd sylw i chi fod ar y lefel honno,
[47:43.000 -> 47:47.040] ond os ydych chi'n cyflawni'r cyfathrebu'r dylun o'r ffordd y byddwn ni'n gael gwahanol yn y flwyddyn nesaf, become a little bit more difficult now. I'm not suggesting you're at that level yet, but if you maintain your kilometric
[47:47.040 -> 47:49.120] of how do we get better next year,
[47:49.120 -> 47:50.980] there's a good chance that you're gonna maintain
[47:50.980 -> 47:53.000] and keep improving on this.
[47:53.000 -> 47:56.400] How have you started to anticipate dealing with
[47:56.400 -> 47:59.100] that lack of humility that comes just from
[47:59.100 -> 48:00.960] having constant success?
[48:02.360 -> 48:04.320] You're right, at some point,
[48:04.320 -> 48:05.960] the bigger clubs will come and try and
[48:05.960 -> 48:09.120] cherry-pick some of those players. With this current group I don't expect that
[48:09.120 -> 48:13.160] to be a humility issue but naturally it provides challenges with us about
[48:13.160 -> 48:16.400] how we then navigate those changes because that's not happened to us yet in
[48:16.400 -> 48:19.880] the Premier League, this is the end of our, now we're one and a half years in, we'll be the end of
[48:19.880 -> 48:23.320] the second year. How do we evolve the club and how do we get through the next
[48:23.320 -> 48:29.600] phase of our development, keeping some of those fundamental principles in place but being able to replace
[48:29.600 -> 48:34.000] some very very good players with equally good players or players who can eventually be equally
[48:34.000 -> 48:37.240] as good, how do you do it without alienating some of the players who already got you there
[48:37.240 -> 48:38.240] in the first place?
[48:38.240 -> 48:41.680] So I think it would be very easy to, when you go to the Premier League and suddenly
[48:41.680 -> 48:47.680] there's a lot more money available, is to suddenly throw a lot more money at players and experienced players and big salaries and all the
[48:47.680 -> 48:53.120] rest of it and then very aware of the challenge of doing that and then having four or five very
[48:53.120 -> 48:57.520] good players who got us there turn around and go well hang on we were the ones who got us there
[48:58.560 -> 49:02.560] why why are we not being rewarded with you know the big contracts and all the rest why is it that
[49:02.560 -> 49:05.200] you're suddenly throwing all this money and this belief that this new star player
[49:05.200 -> 49:06.720] can come in and take us to the next level.
[49:06.720 -> 49:08.040] And if that player doesn't come and share
[49:08.040 -> 49:10.280] that same work ethic, that same humility,
[49:10.280 -> 49:11.800] that same desire to improve,
[49:11.800 -> 49:13.000] and the rest of the players find themselves
[49:13.000 -> 49:15.240] doing a lot of what was running for him,
[49:15.240 -> 49:17.640] that's where you'll find that the whole culture
[49:17.640 -> 49:19.240] and the whole environment will just collapse in on itself
[49:19.240 -> 49:21.680] and then we'll find some bigger challenges.
[49:21.680 -> 49:25.080] What's the key for making that progress though and bringing people on the journey? How do you do it? Is it a communication thing? ymwneud â'r broblemau mwyaf. Beth yw'r clyw arall i wneud y cynyddu honno,
[49:25.080 -> 49:26.400] ac i ddod â phobl ar y ffordd?
[49:26.400 -> 49:27.240] Sut yw'r gwaith?
[49:27.240 -> 49:28.960] Yw hwnnw'n beth cyfathrebu?
[49:28.960 -> 49:30.280] Ie, mae'n cyfathrebu.
[49:30.280 -> 49:32.480] Mae rhai chwaraewyr
[49:32.480 -> 49:33.960] nad ydyn nhw'n dod â ni ar y ffordd.
[49:33.960 -> 49:35.280] Dyna'n naturol mewn chwaraewyr ffotbol.
[49:35.280 -> 49:36.680] Bydd plaid yn mynd ymlaen ar gyfer rhai rhesymau.
[49:36.680 -> 49:37.920] Ond rwy'n credu y byddwch chi'n cael
[49:37.920 -> 49:39.080] y cyfathrebu cyntaf,
[49:39.080 -> 49:40.480] fel yn ddechrau'r sgwrs
[49:40.480 -> 49:41.760] pan ddweudwydwn am ddod ymlaen yma
[49:41.760 -> 49:43.080] a gweld, a siarad â phobl
[49:43.080 -> 49:45.760] a deall beth maen nhw'n meddwl a beth maen nhw'n gweld, ac mae ganddyn nhw'r syniadau eu hunain, conversation when I talked about first coming in here and seeing, talking to people and actually understanding what they think and what they see
[49:45.760 -> 49:50.440] and they've got these new ideas is what have we got internally, what can we
[49:50.440 -> 49:53.440] take, can we bring people on that next step with us and who is gonna
[49:53.440 -> 49:58.400] come on that journey with us and who is gonna leave and make sure those
[49:58.400 -> 50:02.760] people feel comfortable and rewarded and highly motivated before we
[50:02.760 -> 50:06.360] start augmenting that with new additions from the outside.
[50:06.360 -> 50:08.400] Where did you finish in the Premier League last season?
[50:08.400 -> 50:09.240] 14th.
[50:09.240 -> 50:11.080] Okay, so that's your greatest ever season
[50:11.080 -> 50:12.840] as a football club, top flight, Premier League,
[50:12.840 -> 50:14.400] 14th place finish,
[50:14.400 -> 50:17.360] and you choose to restructure the football department.
[50:17.360 -> 50:19.360] Many people wouldn't have touched it.
[50:19.360 -> 50:21.820] Why did you decide to make even subtle changes?
[50:22.780 -> 50:25.480] Well, part of it was because I used to do this job
[50:25.480 -> 50:28.000] with a guy called Rasmus Angersen,
[50:28.000 -> 50:32.680] and he left in around Christmas of 2021.
[50:32.680 -> 50:35.920] So part of it was he left and that changed the dynamic,
[50:35.920 -> 50:38.480] and I felt that I needed more support and more knowledge.
[50:38.480 -> 50:40.960] I realized that what Rasmus provided was,
[50:40.960 -> 50:42.320] you know, me and him did this job together,
[50:42.320 -> 50:43.480] and the reason it worked so well
[50:43.480 -> 50:47.360] as co-directors of football is because we were completely different people. You know,
[50:47.360 -> 50:51.760] his skill set and my skill completely different. And him leaving provided a vacuum in terms
[50:51.760 -> 50:57.280] of my knowledge around some of these areas. And I felt that we needed, I needed, but the
[50:57.280 -> 51:01.960] club also would benefit from new skills and experiences coming in in some of these areas.
[51:01.960 -> 51:07.520] So that was partly triggered by that. Also looking at myself and realizing that I can't do certain things, there's certain
[51:07.520 -> 51:11.200] things I'm not good at, that Rasmus was good at, that we need other people to
[51:11.200 -> 51:15.320] step up and do. And also yeah, trying to reduce the number of
[51:15.320 -> 51:18.520] people who reported directly to me. Over time I've kind of accumulated a
[51:18.520 -> 51:22.320] hundred people, loads and loads of people reporting to me and I just felt that I
[51:22.320 -> 51:26.900] you know, needed to spread that out a little bit and actually allow other people to take on responsibilities.
[51:26.900 -> 51:31.340] But that takes quite a level of self-awareness, so again I think it's a
[51:31.340 -> 51:35.360] really important area if you'd share with us about how do you go about doing
[51:35.360 -> 51:42.860] that self-evaluation? I think it's, I don't think it's a, I don't think it's a
[51:42.860 -> 51:46.320] process where you sit down in a chair and go right right, I'm gonna self-evaluate myself.
[51:46.320 -> 51:48.640] I think you do have to be, to be successful,
[51:48.640 -> 51:50.000] I think you do have to be very self-aware
[51:50.000 -> 51:51.920] of what actually you're good at
[51:51.920 -> 51:52.840] and what you're not good at.
[51:52.840 -> 51:54.640] Hopefully I have some level of humility
[51:54.640 -> 51:55.920] to kind of realize that.
[51:55.920 -> 51:59.520] I'm not afraid to sit with people like today
[51:59.520 -> 52:03.280] and say a lot of the success, I know where we were lucky
[52:03.280 -> 52:05.520] and I know what was luck and what was randomness
[52:05.520 -> 52:10.400] and where things could have gone wrong for us and not get carried away by that. I'm also aware of
[52:10.960 -> 52:15.920] the fact that football will continue forever and ever and ever and is largely cyclical and to
[52:15.920 -> 52:21.920] maintain the high standards you need to keep on evaluating and I'm a big believer that you need
[52:21.920 -> 52:27.820] to keep on changing things. You can't keep things the same all the time. Not just changing the squad but little
[52:27.820 -> 52:31.940] things. When we were in the championship we didn't have, we had no money, really tiny
[52:31.940 -> 52:37.300] revenues relative to the other clubs. But when we, when the the players used to
[52:37.300 -> 52:40.820] come back in after preseason would do things like I just want to see a new
[52:40.820 -> 52:47.440] coffee machine. I just want to see, just change a little bit or last summer we brought in Ben Ryan.
[52:47.440 -> 52:50.160] That was a change in terms of the performance director.
[52:50.160 -> 52:51.680] We brought a new coach into our first team group.
[52:51.680 -> 52:52.800] We just freshened it up a little bit.
[52:52.800 -> 52:53.640] It's not just about players.
[52:53.640 -> 52:55.680] It's about new ideas, not getting stale.
[52:55.680 -> 52:56.520] You don't want the players coming in
[52:56.520 -> 52:59.360] after pre-season going, all right, same players,
[52:59.360 -> 53:00.720] same coaches.
[53:00.720 -> 53:03.600] Eventually it starts to, you'll lose a little,
[53:03.600 -> 53:08.840] I think you'll lose a little bit of kind of excitement and forward momentum that you maybe need to keep
[53:08.840 -> 53:11.280] going forward, which I think you have to keep going forward as soon as you stop
[53:11.280 -> 53:15.640] you kind of, you become a bit stale I think. Brilliant stuff. We're gonna move
[53:15.640 -> 53:18.720] on to our quickfire questions in just a moment but my sort of final one for
[53:18.720 -> 53:22.600] you before we do that is like, why football? You had an amazing career
[53:22.600 -> 53:26.320] before, you achieved brilliant things. What is it about football?
[53:26.320 -> 53:28.920] Well I grew up in Newcastle and you can't not love football.
[53:28.920 -> 53:32.720] I used to go to the games way back when. People forget it wasn't that popular.
[53:32.720 -> 53:35.600] Back in the late 80s, early 90s when I started it wasn't that popular.
[53:35.600 -> 53:38.120] But I used to go to all the games and then Newcastle became good.
[53:38.120 -> 53:40.880] And when I applied to go to university, I applied at Newcastle University
[53:40.880 -> 53:42.600] and the reason was to keep my season ticket at Newcastle.
[53:42.600 -> 53:46.520] So I was really born to it. And then when I left university, I was really born to it and then when I left university I was there a long time
[53:46.520 -> 53:49.600] but when I left I didn't know what I wanted to do but I really wanted to do
[53:49.600 -> 53:53.720] something I was interested in so I ended up working around in the
[53:53.720 -> 53:56.280] sports betting industry which is peripheral to football but still
[53:56.280 -> 53:58.720] watching a lot of football because I think you've got to do something in your
[53:58.720 -> 54:00.920] life which you love doing if you're doing something that you don't love
[54:00.920 -> 54:08.280] doing what's the point frankly that's my view on it the idea that I would actually work in football and that I never even tried to work in football Os ydych chi'n gwneud rhywbeth na fyddwch chi'n hoffi ei wneud, pa'r pwynt, yn awyddus, dyna fy ngwydr arno. Yr syniad y byddwn i'n gweithio mewn chwaraeon, ac nid oeddwn i weithio mewn chwaraeon,
[54:08.280 -> 54:10.660] roedd hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n dod yn ôl, yn ôl i'r gwirionedd.
[54:10.660 -> 54:12.820] Cymhwyster hwnnw ddechrau drwy...
[54:12.820 -> 54:15.920] Roeddwn i'n mynd i mewn i'r cyfarfod yn fy swydd diweddar,
[54:15.920 -> 54:19.840] sy'n ymwneud â'r un o'r arweinwyr, Brentford, ac yn ei gweithle eraill.
[54:19.840 -> 54:22.560] Roeddwn i'n mynd i gael y tub, ac ar y platfform,
[54:22.560 -> 54:26.900] ymweld â rhywun rydw i'n gweithio gyda, a oedd yn ymwneud â'r un cyfarfod, I was gonna get the tube and on the platform, I ran into someone I worked with, who's a lawyer, who was also getting a tube
[54:26.900 -> 54:27.940] to the same meeting.
[54:27.940 -> 54:29.080] He was a director of Brentford.
[54:29.080 -> 54:30.820] So this was a thing, and we got talking about Brentford
[54:30.820 -> 54:32.220] because that was obviously the most interesting thing.
[54:32.220 -> 54:34.960] And we were chatting and eventually sort of,
[54:34.960 -> 54:36.260] he started sort of saying,
[54:36.260 -> 54:37.500] well, these are some of the problems we face
[54:37.500 -> 54:38.320] and all the rest of it.
[54:38.320 -> 54:39.160] I was saying, well, have you thought about this?
[54:39.160 -> 54:40.000] Have you thought about this?
[54:40.000 -> 54:42.220] And eventually, one thing led to another
[54:42.220 -> 54:45.920] and he advised Matthew that maybe I should be part of that, those solutions, but actually go in there and help solve it is how I got the job. Yn ystod y cyfnod, mae un peth yn arwain at un arall, ac mae'n ystyried Matthew, efallai y dylen i fod yn rhan o'r cyfansoddau hynny,
[54:45.920 -> 54:48.320] ac yna i fynd i mewn i helpu i ddatrys sut roeddwn i'n cael y swydd.
[54:48.320 -> 54:52.480] Ond mae'n mynd i ddangos i chi eto, mewn syniad o edrych, os nad ydw i wedi dod i mewn i'r platfform, y tube-statiwn,
[54:52.480 -> 54:55.280] nid oedd hwn yn y peth mae'n dod i mewn i.
[54:55.280 -> 55:01.680] Nid oeddwn i wedi ceisio gweithio yn chwaraeon, ond os ydych chi'n hoffi chwaraeon, ac ydych chi'n cyfathrebu ar y dymuniad i weithio ar rhywbeth rydych chi wir yn hoffi,
[55:01.680 -> 55:08.760] gobeithio bydd gwaith hawr yn cyfleu'r cyfle. on something that you really love, hopefully hard work will meet the opportunity. Right, quick fire questions. The three non-negotiables that you and
[55:08.760 -> 55:14.920] the people around you would ideally buy into? Hard work, absolutely fundamental.
[55:14.920 -> 55:18.920] I bet everyone who asks that, I bet you 50% must say hard work first up.
[55:18.920 -> 55:24.360] Humility and open-mindedness, I talked about that in terms of that's one of
[55:24.360 -> 55:28.040] Thomas's big strengths that people don't see I think from the outside. What's your greatest
[55:28.040 -> 55:32.600] strength and your biggest weakness? I think my biggest strength it can also
[55:32.600 -> 55:35.880] be my biggest weakness at times which is I know biggest strength is I'm quite
[55:35.880 -> 55:43.720] calm, level-headed, dispassionate and analytical and in many ways
[55:43.720 -> 55:46.760] introverted. You know I'm not somebody who's out there all the time
[55:46.760 -> 55:48.560] and doing lots of interviews and all the rest of it.
[55:48.560 -> 55:50.120] I tend to be in the background.
[55:50.120 -> 55:52.500] I think that can also be my biggest weakness
[55:52.500 -> 55:55.160] because like I said, when we fail to get promoted,
[55:55.160 -> 55:56.680] people wanna see me, you know,
[55:56.680 -> 55:57.520] people wanna see people going,
[55:57.520 -> 55:58.360] oh, this is terrible,
[55:58.360 -> 55:59.400] this is the worst thing that's ever happened.
[55:59.400 -> 56:00.520] Not necessarily somebody,
[56:00.520 -> 56:02.520] they wanna grieve and feel that down.
[56:02.520 -> 56:03.600] They don't want somebody going in
[56:03.600 -> 56:07.920] just calm and a bit emotionless. And being a bit emotionless, we talked about already, football
[56:07.920 -> 56:15.680] is an emotional sport, being emotionless can be maybe also a weakness. And also being introverted
[56:15.680 -> 56:20.320] means that I'm sometimes reluctant to do that job of stepping in front of people, in front
[56:20.320 -> 56:24.960] of a whole team of people and going, right, this is how I see it. And I don't realise
[56:24.960 -> 56:26.040] sometimes that they, sometimes they want that as it. And I don't realize sometimes that they,
[56:26.040 -> 56:27.600] sometimes they want that as well.
[56:27.600 -> 56:29.120] And realizing that when,
[56:29.120 -> 56:31.480] when are those moments to step in and go, right,
[56:31.480 -> 56:34.080] here's my vision of how we want to do it
[56:34.080 -> 56:35.900] and getting that balance right.
[56:35.900 -> 56:37.600] What does hard work mean to you?
[56:38.720 -> 56:40.760] Not cutting corners, I think.
[56:40.760 -> 56:43.240] Natural human desire is to want to cut corners
[56:43.240 -> 57:09.000] and get to the end point as quickly as possible because that's the end point. But if you don't put the steps in place and the foundations in place before you get there, Mae'n dweud bod y cyfle i ddod o'r ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd y byddai'n gweithio yn y ffordd. Mae yna llawer mwy i'w wneud, ac mae angen y sgiliau mwy ffyrdd i wneud y swydd.
[57:09.000 -> 57:15.000] Felly, mae fy nghyfraith fel sefydliadwr o'r sefydliadau, felly mae pobl yn cydnabod, dyna pam rydw i'n ei gynhyrchu.
[57:15.000 -> 57:21.000] Rydw i'n dod ymlaen gyda niferau, ac rydw i'n dweud, dyna'r niferau, nawr, gadewch i mi gyrraedd y peth. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae'n cofio mwy na hynny.
[57:21.000 -> 57:25.240] Mae gennym clwb llyfr o gyflogrwydd fawr. Mae gennym llawer o aelodau, ac maen nhw'n hoff cyfrofendiadau. A oes gennych chi gyfrofendiad o llyfr i'n amryd llawer mwy na hynny. Mae gennym clwb llyfr o ffynedau cyhoeddiadwy. Mae gennym nifer o aelodau ac maen nhw'n hoffi cyfrofendiadau.
[57:25.240 -> 57:28.600] A oes gennych chi'n argymhellu llyfr i'n aelodau, os gwelwch?
[57:28.600 -> 57:29.680] Byddwn yn argymhellu llyfr.
[57:29.680 -> 57:32.200] Rydw i'n clywed, nid oes gen i'r holl podcastau,
[57:32.200 -> 57:35.240] ond rydw i wedi clywed, o'n carlon y Wain,
[57:35.240 -> 57:36.480] yn gyntaf, rydw i'n clywed eich llyfr diwethaf
[57:36.480 -> 57:38.120] gyda Jordan Henson, sy'n ffasafnach.
[57:38.120 -> 57:39.520] Ac roeddech chi'n ymwneud â Carneman.
[57:39.520 -> 57:40.720] Rydw i'n mynd i ymwneud â'r llyfr,
[57:40.720 -> 57:42.280] Thinkin' Fast and Slow by Daniel Carneman.
[57:42.280 -> 57:43.320] Rydw i'n siŵr ei fod wedi cael y llyfr hwnnw
[57:43.320 -> 57:44.480] yn y byd.
[57:44.480 -> 57:47.260] Ac y rheswm rydw i'n ymwneud âddyn nhw yw oherwydd roedd yna ddau llyfr that book, Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman, I'm certain you must have had that one come up in the past. The reason I mention it is because there's been two
[57:47.260 -> 57:51.120] books which Matthew has given out to staff members and gone right you must
[57:51.120 -> 57:53.840] read this, I've read this, you must read this when it's been fresh and new.
[57:53.840 -> 57:56.840] This book's obviously from quite a long time ago but when you read it you went
[57:56.840 -> 58:00.720] right read that, boom this is exactly the sort of thinking which I want to see in
[58:00.720 -> 58:04.480] my businesses outside of football but also bringing it into football. There's
[58:04.480 -> 58:08.640] so many concepts in Thinking Fast and Slow about things like anchoring, things y byddwn i eisiau gweld yn fy nhrymau allan o ffwrdd, ond hefyd yn rhoi'r pêl i ffwrdd. Mae cyfnodau llawer yn meddwl yn fwy cyflym ac yn llwyr am bethau fel ychydig o anger, bethau fel
[58:08.640 -> 58:13.920] ychydig o ddiddorol, bethau fel deall y bywydau rydyn ni'n eu cymryd, rydych chi'n gweld hynny'n
[58:13.920 -> 58:26.000] ymgyrchol, y bywydau yn rhai o'r bobl rydych chi'n gweithio gyda nhw, ac rydych chi'n gweld yn dod allan, rydych chi'n meddwl, oh, dyna'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ddiddorol, mae'n ymdrechion. Pethau fel y broses y mae'n siarad amdano lle roedd yn ymwneud â'i hymgyrchu
[58:26.000 -> 58:28.000] potensial oferwyr yn y rhan
[58:28.000 -> 58:30.000] o'r rhan ymdrechion, ac roeddent yn ceisio
[58:30.000 -> 58:32.000] i ddweud wrth ymwyr
[58:32.000 -> 58:34.000] y byddwn ni'n ymweld â'r person hwn,
[58:34.000 -> 58:36.000] rydyn ni'n credu eu bod yn oferwyr,
[58:36.000 -> 58:38.000] a pha mor ddangos y broses hwnnw, a pha mor ddangos y ffordd oedd hwnnw,
[58:38.000 -> 58:40.000] a pha mor ddangos y parallelau,
[58:40.000 -> 58:42.000] y byddai'r dynion yn datblygu ffotbol ac yn ceisio ddysgu
[58:42.000 -> 58:44.000] a yw'r chwaraewr yn mynd i fod yn chwaraewr neu ddim,
[58:44.000 -> 59:11.920] a pha fyddai'n medru ei wneud, a gallwch chi'n ymdrechu, a pha mor ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod enjoy their life and cook once in a while, the hard work's not necessarily there. I think as you get older, as you as you develop and become more mature, you start to realize how much effort and work you need to put in to be able to kind of
[59:12.360 -> 59:17.520] do well and stay afloat almost in with other good people. And the more you hang around with good people who are doing well, the
[59:17.520 -> 59:21.720] more it inspires you to work harder. That idea of hard work is just fundamental. And I think
[59:22.120 -> 59:24.120] teenage boys, a lot of them, my kids,
[59:24.120 -> 59:26.280] the same, work hard work is just fundamental. And I think teenage boys, a lot of them, my kids, the same, work hard work.
[59:26.280 -> 59:28.680] Your final message really to our listeners
[59:28.680 -> 59:31.120] who've really enjoyed this absorbing conversation,
[59:31.120 -> 59:33.200] what would you love to leave them with ringing in their ears
[59:33.200 -> 59:36.120] about how to live their own version of high performance?
[59:36.120 -> 59:38.080] We just talked about hard work, that's fundamental,
[59:38.080 -> 59:41.120] but I think humility, I think that's absolutely key,
[59:41.120 -> 59:43.280] that learning process and surrounding yourself
[59:43.280 -> 59:44.160] with good people.
[59:44.160 -> 59:47.000] So be humble, realise your strengths and weaknesses, surround yourself with good people Iawn, dwi'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig iawn, y broses ddysgu a'ch ymgyrchu eich hunain gyda phobl da. Felly, gwnewch eich cydnabod eich stryngau a'ch ddysgwyr,
[59:47.000 -> 59:51.000] ymgyrchu eich hunain gyda phobl da sy'n cymryd hynny, ond yn cymryd eich un.
[59:52.000 -> 01:00:05.940] Phil, diolch yn fawr iawn am eich amser. Mae'n dda iawn i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r cognitive diversity that's really important. My final question, are you a dreamer?
[01:00:05.940 -> 01:00:09.680] Like, do you dream that there's something unbelievable
[01:00:09.680 -> 01:00:11.020] around the corner for Brentford,
[01:00:11.020 -> 01:00:14.180] or are you more about the fact that being here today
[01:00:14.180 -> 01:00:17.160] where you are in the Premier League is special enough?
[01:00:18.720 -> 01:00:20.340] I don't think you can sit here and say,
[01:00:20.340 -> 01:00:21.980] being here where we are now is special enough.
[01:00:21.980 -> 01:00:23.060] Because as soon as we do that,
[01:00:23.060 -> 01:00:26.560] I think that's where we'll start to fall backwards.
[01:00:26.560 -> 01:00:28.160] I think you've always got to aspire.
[01:00:28.160 -> 01:00:29.680] How on earth do you get the next level?
[01:00:29.680 -> 01:00:32.040] Look at Brighton, what a great example they are.
[01:00:32.040 -> 01:00:34.400] Where up until a couple of years ago,
[01:00:34.400 -> 01:00:36.480] they were a team who were more struggling
[01:00:36.480 -> 01:00:38.440] at the bottom end and they made some changes
[01:00:38.440 -> 01:00:40.840] and they've just gone on to a level where now,
[01:00:40.840 -> 01:00:43.680] you know, they're just outstanding as a football team
[01:00:43.680 -> 01:01:07.120] and done it in a way which you can only, you know, that's an inspiration to us to kind of mimic them. Mae'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r r Thomas talks about it, you know, the big dream, you know, could we get in the Europa League? That's the big dream. And I think you do have to have people who are dreamers and
[01:01:07.760 -> 01:01:13.120] more emotionally motivated like that to kind of want to motivate that, whereas I'm more pragmatic
[01:01:13.120 -> 01:01:16.320] and I've got to kind of think, well, actually, yeah, we've got to actually go and deliver it.
[01:01:16.320 -> 01:01:19.680] So there's a role for both, I think. Good luck. Thank you very much.
[01:01:24.000 -> 01:01:27.240] Damien, Jake, what stands out for you? I thought that was a really, really
[01:01:27.240 -> 01:01:31.720] fascinating conversation. It was a privilege to listen to inside a club. I
[01:01:31.720 -> 01:01:36.920] think a couple of things, one is this idea of chattering the myth that this is
[01:01:36.920 -> 01:01:42.200] a club run on statistics and data, the human field, the importance of culture
[01:01:42.200 -> 01:01:45.080] stood out and with that, the humility to be open to new ideas, to different ways oedd y bwysigrwydd o ddiwylliant yn dod allan. Ac o'r cymaint o hynny,
[01:01:45.080 -> 01:01:48.080] y cyd-dewis i'r newydd iddyn nhw,
[01:01:48.080 -> 01:01:50.080] i ffyrdd gwahanol o feddwl,
[01:01:50.080 -> 01:01:53.080] rwy'n meddwl mai dyna'n gwych i gyd i ni i gyd.
[01:01:53.080 -> 01:01:55.480] Rwy'n meddwl,
[01:01:55.480 -> 01:01:56.480] yn hytrach na phobl,
[01:01:56.480 -> 01:01:58.080] pan oedd Phil yn siarad,
[01:01:58.080 -> 01:02:00.080] dyma lle ddim bydd peth yn digwydd ar gyfer byth.
[01:02:00.080 -> 01:02:01.680] Rwy'n hoffi'r ffaith bod yn ddiogel
[01:02:01.680 -> 01:02:02.680] y gallwch chi gael llwch.
[01:02:02.680 -> 01:02:04.680] Rwy'n gweithio gyda Owen Hargreaves
[01:02:04.680 -> 01:02:07.200] yn y sport BT, ac mae'n dweud bod ffotbol yn gêm o'r cyfle. Unrhywun yn dod o'r ffordd, Like I love the fact that he's honest that you get luck and you get you know I work with Owen Hargreeves a lot of BT sport and he always says football is a game of chance
[01:02:07.200 -> 01:02:11.640] You know someone slips over if that's chance or it rains in the middle of a match which affects the outcome
[01:02:11.640 -> 01:02:14.720] That's all chance, but actually the things that Phil's able to control
[01:02:15.280 -> 01:02:19.560] He controls you he thinks deeply about the kind of people they're bringing into the football club
[01:02:19.560 -> 01:02:21.360] I know they have a we didn't get onto it
[01:02:21.360 -> 01:02:23.320] But they have a like a no dickheads policy in this place
[01:02:23.320 -> 01:02:26.280] You know you can't come in here and act in the wrong way and he spoke about that
[01:02:26.280 -> 01:02:30.200] really well but I think the sort of standout thing for me is that no matter
[01:02:30.200 -> 01:02:36.000] how good you are either as a coach or as a staff member or as a footballer you do
[01:02:36.000 -> 01:02:40.400] not get through the door and get a job here if you're gonna upset or impact the
[01:02:40.400 -> 01:02:44.760] culture in a negative way and we've heard that from so many of our high
[01:02:44.760 -> 01:03:08.000] performers you know Holly Tucker saying to us she'd rather have a hole than an y dylid ymdrechion y dylid ymdrechion y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dylid y dyleth y bydd Fils Bogwald yn ei ddweud o ran y stabiliaeth yno ar y clwb, ac mae hynny'n cyfathrebu gyda'r ffras o'r rhai rydyn ni'n defnyddio'n ofal i architectau ddiwylliannol,
[01:03:08.000 -> 01:03:12.000] pobl sy'n adeiladu'r sefydliadau a'u gael eu teimlo'n unig,
[01:03:12.000 -> 01:03:15.000] a'u gael eu gael mewn lle o ran eu cyd-destun,
[01:03:15.000 -> 01:03:18.000] sut maen nhw'n gweithio, sut maen nhw'n ymdrechu gyda phobl eraill.
[01:03:18.000 -> 01:03:29.880] Ac rwy'n credu, eto, mae'n gynllunio llawer o'r hyn rydyn ni'n clywed o'r rhai eraill reinforces a lot of what we're hearing from so many others that this kind of stuff, the human element and engaging people is essential for high-performance
[01:03:29.880 -> 01:03:35.080] teams. And engaging different people from different walks of life with different
[01:03:35.080 -> 01:03:39.320] mindsets. I think this conversation about diversity is brilliant. As you know I
[01:03:39.320 -> 01:03:43.280] spend my life kind of rallying against the fact you have to be a certain kind
[01:03:43.280 -> 01:03:46.480] of person to be accepted in the football world and I'm definitely not that person and
[01:03:46.480 -> 01:03:51.360] that's just the way it is right but I love the idea of getting people in a
[01:03:51.360 -> 01:03:54.960] room at Brentford during a match and just learning from them all you know I
[01:03:54.960 -> 01:04:00.000] think that Phil has such a unique approach to this job not because he's
[01:04:00.000 -> 01:04:03.320] now in the world of football but because he was not previously in the world of
[01:04:03.320 -> 01:04:07.120] football you know if it have been in the game since the day he left school or come into it as a former player I think he wouldn't have the richness that he y bydd yn y byd o ffotbol, ond oherwydd nad oedd yn y byd o ffotbol yn y blynyddoedd, os oedd wedi bod yn y pêl oddi'r dydd oedd wedi mynd i'r ysgol neu i ddod i'w ffordd fel
[01:04:07.120 -> 01:04:10.960] ffyrddwyr oedd yn y blynyddoedd, dwi'n credu na fyddai'n gael y rhan fawr y gallai ei ddod i'r swydd.
[01:04:10.960 -> 01:04:25.520] Iawn, ac eto, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n wythnos i bawb sy'n mynd i'r wythnos i'r wythnos hwn, sy'n meddwl am eu byd eu hunain, yw, dwi'n gwybod, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dchion, ddysgu llyfrau gwahanol os nad ydych chi'n cael cyfle i'w gysylltu.
[01:04:25.520 -> 01:04:30.240] Rydyn ni'n ddod o hyd i'r podcast, rydyn ni'n ddigon ddysgus i ddod o hyd i
[01:04:30.240 -> 01:04:35.520] pobl ddifrifol ac eithaf eich gweld bob dydd sy'n rhannu'r hynod o ddealltwriaethau.
[01:04:35.520 -> 01:04:40.080] Ac rwy'n credu bod y syniad o ddod o hyd i chi ddod yn myopic,
[01:04:40.080 -> 01:04:42.960] mae rhywbeth y mae'n ei chynhyrchu, yw'r sgortomas,
[01:04:42.960 -> 01:04:46.280] lle byddwch chi'n dechrau'n ddifrifol i'r hyn rydych chi'n ei wneud bob dydd.
[01:04:46.280 -> 01:04:48.480] Ac mae hwn am ymdrechu'r sgortomas hwn
[01:04:48.480 -> 01:04:52.440] a chadw eich perspectif yn ymwneud â'r cyfansoddau y gall.
[01:04:52.440 -> 01:04:53.800] Ie, ddifrifol.
[01:04:53.800 -> 01:04:55.280] Sônwch, os ydw i'n fan o Brentford,
[01:04:55.280 -> 01:04:58.000] rydw i'n meddwl, rwy'n teimlo'r clwb yn ddod yn ddangos.
[01:04:58.000 -> 01:05:00.080] Ac er bod y canlyniadau ddim yn dod y ffordd
[01:05:00.080 -> 01:05:02.400] y mae'r faniaid Brentford, a'n siŵr,
[01:05:02.400 -> 01:05:04.480] a'r Matthew a phob un eraill, eisiau eu gwneud,
[01:05:04.480 -> 01:05:07.880] gallwch chi sicrhau bod y prosesau ar gael ar gyfer gwella'n cyfansoddol. Ac, wyt ti'n gwybod, nid yw bob amser yn unig, o'u gwir, that Brentford fans and certainly Phil and Matthew and everyone else wants them to, you can be sure the processes are in place for constant improvement and you
[01:05:07.880 -> 01:05:10.680] know it's not always linear right? You have to have the highs and the lows.
[01:05:10.680 -> 01:05:14.920] Brilliant. Thanks mate. Thanks mate.
[01:05:14.920 -> 01:05:19.440] So this is the time for our favourite bit of the High Performance Podcast where
[01:05:19.440 -> 01:05:22.960] we get to meet one of our listeners and this one is somebody that I was lucky
[01:05:22.960 -> 01:05:25.880] enough to meet back in December
[01:05:25.880 -> 01:05:27.880] 2022 in Liverpool.
[01:05:27.880 -> 01:05:28.880] Palan.
[01:05:28.880 -> 01:05:29.880] Nice to see you again.
[01:05:29.880 -> 01:05:33.440] When we met you were telling me about this business that you and your mum were running
[01:05:33.440 -> 01:05:39.720] and you came up and kindly told me about the podcast and how it had been part of your journey.
[01:05:39.720 -> 01:05:45.760] It's a direct to consumer brand with my mum selling chutney. So we're just starting
[01:05:45.760 -> 01:05:50.200] off with chutneys because mum's always had a strong passion for food and it's
[01:05:50.200 -> 01:05:54.160] something that you know I've grown up with and I love and I want to share that
[01:05:54.160 -> 01:06:01.040] with the people of the world hopefully. Right, Palan, three non-negotiables
[01:06:01.040 -> 01:06:06.240] please for the perfect chutney. For the perfect chutney it has to be the consistency,
[01:06:06.240 -> 01:06:09.240] so you don't want it too runny, you don't want it too thick.
[01:06:09.240 -> 01:06:13.960] For me it has to be flavor, I don't mean spice or heat,
[01:06:13.960 -> 01:06:17.160] I mean flavor, because a lot of chutneys are overly sweet
[01:06:17.160 -> 01:06:19.680] and you don't get the right flavor
[01:06:19.680 -> 01:06:21.400] for the products that are in them.
[01:06:21.400 -> 01:06:27.040] So mango chutneys traditionally you get are very, very sweet and there's no depth to it.
[01:06:27.040 -> 01:06:30.900] And natural ingredients, so we don't want it processed.
[01:06:30.900 -> 01:06:33.180] We don't want it full of chemicals.
[01:06:33.180 -> 01:06:35.180] We want it to be all natural and sustainable,
[01:06:35.180 -> 01:06:36.680] and that's what we like.
[01:06:36.680 -> 01:06:38.340] I'm interested in the bit about
[01:06:38.340 -> 01:06:40.280] running the business with your mum.
[01:06:40.280 -> 01:06:41.120] Yes.
[01:06:41.120 -> 01:06:42.020] So how-
[01:06:42.020 -> 01:06:42.860] Very challenging.
[01:06:42.860 -> 01:06:43.700] Yeah.
[01:06:43.700 -> 01:06:47.620] I remember you telling me in Liverpool, so tell us about what some of the challenges
[01:06:47.620 -> 01:06:51.880] about going into business with your mum have presented for you.
[01:06:51.880 -> 01:06:55.840] Yeah, so mum is very, you know, cooking is what she loves to do.
[01:06:55.840 -> 01:06:59.360] She loves to feed people and she's very opinionated on everything.
[01:06:59.360 -> 01:07:03.840] So the brand, the way we're going to sell the chutneys, the way she's doing things in
[01:07:03.840 -> 01:07:10.160] particular. And I'm very systematic in my approach when, just because that's how I am with the agency,
[01:07:10.160 -> 01:07:15.440] you know, I want to have things done by this day and make sure we have enough preparation and
[01:07:15.440 -> 01:07:21.040] everything goes into it. Whereas mum's just a bit more, okay, today I'll make this chutney,
[01:07:21.040 -> 01:07:25.200] for example. She did a chilli pickle and I said to mum, you can't
[01:07:25.200 -> 01:07:29.600] do that. We've not got a shelf life tested and she's used our jars for this chili pickle
[01:07:29.600 -> 01:07:34.600] that we can't even sell. She's usually creative when it comes to the kitchen. I'm thinking
[01:07:34.600 -> 01:07:38.260] more from the business point of view, how do we get this to market quicker? How can
[01:07:38.260 -> 01:07:42.120] we produce more chutneys? Because at home at the moment, we've done all the certificates
[01:07:42.120 -> 01:07:48.320] and everything, but I'm trying to get the more business aspects through where she just wants to cook and feed people. So what's the
[01:07:48.320 -> 01:07:53.920] future plan? Tell me how you're balancing the process and focusing on the process of making
[01:07:53.920 -> 01:07:59.680] the product great but also having that big ambition or that big dream or you know selling
[01:07:59.680 -> 01:08:04.320] 10,000 units or being the number one chutney in the UK. How are you getting that balance right?
[01:08:04.960 -> 01:08:09.160] It's a tricky one to be honest because this is not a project for me to make
[01:08:09.160 -> 01:08:11.200] money. I know as bad as that sounds.
[01:08:12.640 -> 01:08:15.600] A very young age, mum always whispered to me that she wanted a cafe.
[01:08:16.480 -> 01:08:19.600] And as I've been growing my business and doing this, I've just thought, okay,
[01:08:20.040 -> 01:08:23.560] it's very unrealistic that I could spend a hundred grand to fit out a cafe and do
[01:08:23.560 -> 01:08:27.280] a kitchen restaurant. So I thought, how can I prove the concept?
[01:08:28.160 -> 01:08:35.320] So for me, this is just proving the concept and almost trying to give mum a bit of an income stream for what she loves to do, which is cooking.
[01:08:35.840 -> 01:08:37.680] And it's the easiest way for me to do it.
[01:08:37.680 -> 01:08:45.600] That's the reality with Mama Seeds is that making the chutneys is a more cost effective way of giving mum that outlet where she can cook and
[01:08:46.000 -> 01:08:49.080] earn some income from it. If it goes explosive, brilliant.
[01:08:49.200 -> 01:08:53.040] I'm not planned for that and like if that happens, I will take that on.
[01:08:53.200 -> 01:08:59.120] But for now, it's just to get mum out there and get her into a business where she's passionate about and she can enjoy.
[01:08:59.480 -> 01:09:05.520] And touch wood through the relationships I've built over time, we've already got an opportunity to sell it at the
[01:09:06.080 -> 01:09:08.400] Shakespeare North Playhouse. I don't know if I can mention that yet.
[01:09:08.400 -> 01:09:13.360] Absolutely mate, I want queues outside the Shakespeare North Playhouse after this.
[01:09:13.360 -> 01:09:17.040] Yeah, it's a brilliant venue. So it's the only Shakespeare theatre outside of
[01:09:17.600 -> 01:09:22.800] London and it's in our hometown of Prescott. And that is an opportunity that through networking
[01:09:22.800 -> 01:09:26.680] for Sood, my main business, that has presented itself to me
[01:09:26.680 -> 01:09:29.160] and direct to consumer brand online.
[01:09:29.160 -> 01:09:31.760] I had a few food blogs back in the day
[01:09:31.760 -> 01:09:33.360] when I was growing Sude.
[01:09:33.360 -> 01:09:35.680] I've made a lot of good connections with food influencers
[01:09:35.680 -> 01:09:37.640] who are all ready to sort of promote the product for me.
[01:09:37.640 -> 01:09:40.500] So it's just a balance of, you know,
[01:09:40.500 -> 01:09:42.960] giving it to a woman as a business she can work on
[01:09:42.960 -> 01:09:43.800] and she's passionate about.
[01:09:43.800 -> 01:09:46.960] And if it does go explosive, we'll cross that bridge when it gets there.
[01:09:46.960 -> 01:09:47.600] John Williams
[01:09:47.600 -> 01:09:51.920] I'm excited for you, Parlon. Thank you so much for joining us, mate, and very best of luck. And I
[01:09:51.920 -> 01:09:56.320] just love that there's these amazing dynamic entrepreneurs out there doing their thing. And,
[01:09:56.320 -> 01:09:59.200] you know, in the background, high performance is just playing a small part.
[01:09:59.200 -> 01:09:59.680] Parlon Williams
[01:09:59.680 -> 01:10:00.640] Yeah, thanks, Parlon.
[01:10:00.640 -> 01:10:00.800] John Williams
[01:10:00.800 -> 01:10:01.440] Take care, guys.
[01:10:01.440 -> 01:10:04.160] John Williams
[01:10:04.160 -> 01:10:06.560] I love having these conversations on the podcast.
[01:10:06.560 -> 01:10:08.720] I love hearing from the high performance listeners.
[01:10:08.720 -> 01:10:13.360] I love bringing someone to you that maybe you haven't heard of or heard from before.
[01:10:13.360 -> 01:10:17.720] You know, there'll be many, many people, tens of thousands of people listening to this episode today
[01:10:17.720 -> 01:10:24.640] who didn't know Phil Giles' role in the incredible change at Brentford Football Club over the past few years.
[01:10:24.640 -> 01:10:26.500] But I really hope that that's given you an insight
[01:10:26.500 -> 01:10:28.080] you didn't previously have.
[01:10:28.080 -> 01:10:29.720] And especially for you Brentford fans,
[01:10:29.720 -> 01:10:32.040] you know, I have this constant frustration
[01:10:32.040 -> 01:10:33.840] that football clubs don't tell us enough
[01:10:33.840 -> 01:10:34.720] about what they're doing.
[01:10:34.720 -> 01:10:36.680] You know, they like to keep everything to themselves
[01:10:36.680 -> 01:10:38.500] and then they wonder why the world makes up stories
[01:10:38.500 -> 01:10:39.640] about what's going on.
[01:10:39.640 -> 01:10:41.100] You know, this is a great lesson.
[01:10:41.100 -> 01:10:43.200] If you're a manager, a player, an owner,
[01:10:43.200 -> 01:10:49.880] a director of football, and you're involved in the game, come on this podcast and tell your truth, because everyone is just
[01:10:49.880 -> 01:10:54.120] trying to do their best. They might be making mistakes, but they almost always have best
[01:10:54.120 -> 01:10:58.360] intentions. And I think to hear someone talk in a way that Phil has is fantastic. So thank
[01:10:58.360 -> 01:11:02.040] you to Brentford for opening up. Thank you to Phil for coming on here and sharing so
[01:11:02.040 -> 01:11:05.200] much with us. And of course, huge thanks to you as always
[01:11:05.200 -> 01:11:07.080] for growing and sharing this podcast.
[01:11:07.080 -> 01:11:09.160] Listen, thank you so much for listening.
[01:11:09.160 -> 01:11:10.880] Remember, there is no secret.
[01:11:10.880 -> 01:11:12.320] It is all there for you.
[01:11:12.320 -> 01:11:14.920] So keep chasing those world-class basics.
[01:11:14.920 -> 01:11:16.760] Don't get high on your own supply.
[01:11:16.760 -> 01:11:20.320] Remain humble, curious, and empathetic.
[01:11:20.320 -> 01:11:50.840] And we'll see you very soon. Save big on the brands you love at the Fred Meyer 5am Black Friday Sale!
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[01:12:09.240 -> 01:12:11.720] Doors open at 5 AM, so get there early.
[01:12:11.720 -> 01:12:14.720] Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone.