E182 - Ryan Mason: How to focus on your comeback, not your set back

Ryan Mason is currently a first team football coach at Tottenham Hotspur FC and was the youngest person ever to manage a Premier League football match at 29. Ryan played football professionally until a life changing skull injury, which he suffered during a match and led to 48 staples in his skull. In this episode they discuss the injury and the struggles that took place in the following months. He shares how he fought through the anger and resentment that followed. 

Nine months after his injury, Ryan was told he would never play football again. This sudden life change led him to find a passion for coaching. He shares with Jake and Damian his coaching methods, how he builds trust within the team, how he builds emotional connections to give players strength and how crucial positive energy is. 

In this episode they discuss obsession, finding the positives and emphasising freedom within football. 

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### Navigating a Life-Changing Injury: Ryan Mason's Journey of Resilience and Reinvention ###

**Navigating a Life-Changing Injury: Ryan Mason's Journey of Resilience and Reinvention**

**A Conversation with the Former Tottenham Hotspur Player and Coach**

**Introduction:**

Ryan Mason, a former professional footballer and current first-team coach at Tottenham Hotspur FC, joins the High Performance Podcast to share his remarkable story of resilience and reinvention. After suffering a life-changing skull injury during a match, Ryan faced the daunting challenge of rebuilding his life and finding a new path forward. In this inspiring conversation, Ryan reflects on the pivotal moments of his journey, the lessons he learned, and the strategies he employed to overcome adversity.

**Key Insights:**

* **Embracing Positivity:** Ryan emphasizes the importance of maintaining a positive mindset, even in the face of overwhelming challenges. He attributes his ability to recover and thrive to his unwavering belief in his own abilities and his determination to find a new purpose.

* **Finding Strength in Support:** Ryan acknowledges the invaluable role his family, friends, and the Tottenham Hotspur community played in his recovery. He highlights the power of having a strong support system that provides encouragement, motivation, and a sense of belonging.

* **The Power of Visualization:** Ryan reveals the significance of visualization techniques in his journey. He describes how he used visualization to imagine himself achieving his goals, which helped him stay focused and motivated during his rehabilitation.

* **Building Emotional Connections:** As a coach, Ryan emphasizes the importance of building emotional connections with players. He believes that creating a positive and supportive environment fosters trust, enhances communication, and ultimately leads to improved team performance.

* **The Importance of Freedom:** Ryan advocates for giving players freedom and autonomy on the pitch. He believes that allowing players to express themselves creatively and make their own decisions leads to more fluid and dynamic football.

**Memorable Quotes:**

* "I had an out-of-body experience. I had this vision where I was looking down on myself with my wife and two children, and at the time we didn't have kids, so I visualized myself. I had this dream, this out-of-body experience. I had a son, I had a daughter, and that's what I've got now."

* "I had to accept sacrificing my whole life to get to a certain level, to live this life, to enjoy playing football. That had been taken away from me. That was my dream as a kid to go and play at White Hart Lane and score at White Hart Lane. That was my dream, that was the ultimate dream as a kid. And I achieved that, which is pretty cool."

* "I had this obsession with coming back to play for England again, because I only had one cap. I was in sort of four or five squads and I believe I would have played for England again. If you ask me now, I'd probably be playing for England. I'm 31, I'm in my prime, I would have got more England caps."

**Conclusion:**

Ryan Mason's journey is a testament to the human spirit's capacity for resilience and reinvention. His unwavering belief in himself, his strong support system, and his ability to visualize his goals were instrumental in his recovery and his successful transition from player to coach. Ryan's story serves as an inspiration to anyone facing adversity, demonstrating that with determination and the right mindset, it is possible to overcome challenges and achieve great things.

**Summary of the Podcast Episode**

**Guest:** Ryan Mason, former first-team football coach at Tottenham Hotspur FC and the youngest person to manage a Premier League football match at 29.

**Topics Discussed:**

* **Ryan's Life-Changing Skull Injury:**
* Suffered a skull injury during a match, resulting in 48 staples in his skull.
* Nine months later, he was told he would never play football again.

* **Finding a New Passion in Coaching:**
* Despite the devastating news, Ryan found a passion for coaching.
* He emphasizes the importance of building trust, emotional connections, and positive energy within the team.

* **The Power of Obsession and Visualization:**
* Ryan shares how obsession and visualization helped him focus on his goals and overcome challenges.
* He believes in visualizing positive outcomes to fuel his motivation and drive.

* **The Importance of Freedom and Belief in Football:**
* Ryan stresses the significance of freedom and belief in football.
* He aims to create an environment where players feel free to express themselves and play with confidence.

* **Ryan's Coaching Methods:**
* He emphasizes the importance of understanding players' needs and creating a structure that allows them to thrive.
* Ryan focuses on building strong relationships with players to foster trust and emotional connections.
* He believes in delivering messages with passion and authenticity to inspire and motivate players.

* **The Energy and Belief in the Dressing Room:**
* Ryan highlights the impact of energy and belief in the dressing room.
* He shares an example of how he used a halftime team talk to change the team's mentality and lead them to victory.

* **The Challenge of Managing Tottenham Hotspur FC:**
* Ryan discusses the challenges of managing Tottenham Hotspur FC, including the pressure and expectations.
* He emphasizes the importance of staying true to oneself and making decisions based on what is best for the team.

* **The Influence of Antonio Conte:**
* Ryan acknowledges the positive impact of Antonio Conte, who visited him in the hospital during his injury.
* He also mentions the visits from John Terry and William, who showed their support during a difficult time.

**Overall Message:**

Ryan Mason's journey from being a professional footballer to a successful coach is a testament to his resilience, optimism, and unwavering belief in his abilities. He emphasizes the importance of creating a positive and supportive environment for players, fostering trust and emotional connections, and instilling a sense of freedom and belief in their abilities. Ryan's story serves as an inspiration to anyone facing challenges in their personal or professional lives, demonstrating the power of perseverance, self-belief, and the ability to overcome adversity.

# Summary of the Podcast Episode: Ryan Mason - The High-Performance Podcast

**Introduction:**

* Ryan Mason, a former professional footballer and current first-team coach at Tottenham Hotspur FC, shares his inspiring journey of overcoming adversity and finding success in coaching.
* Despite a promising career cut short by a life-changing skull injury, Mason's passion for the game led him to pursue a coaching career, where he emphasizes emotional intelligence, intuition, and connection.

**Key Points:**

1. **Importance of Trust and Belief:**
- Mason highlights the significance of trust and belief in building strong relationships with players.
- He recalls how Mauricio Pochettino's trust in his abilities as a young player gave him the confidence to excel and perform at his best.

2. **Emotional Intelligence and Intuition:**
- Mason emphasizes the role of emotional intelligence and intuition in effective coaching.
- He believes in connecting with players on a personal level, understanding their emotions, and creating a positive and supportive environment.

3. **Obsession, Positivity, and Freedom:**
- Mason discusses the concept of obsession in football, emphasizing the importance of having a relentless desire to improve and succeed.
- He also stresses the value of positivity and creating an environment where players feel free to express themselves and take risks.

4. **Coaching Methods and Building Trust:**
- Mason shares his coaching methods, focusing on building trust within the team and establishing strong emotional connections with players.
- He believes in empowering players, giving them the freedom to make decisions, and fostering a sense of responsibility and ownership.

5. **Adapting to the Modern Game:**
- Mason acknowledges the evolving nature of the modern game and the need for coaches to adapt their methods accordingly.
- He emphasizes the importance of tactical awareness, technical proficiency, and physical conditioning while still maintaining the fundamentals of football.

6. **Learning from Legendary Coaches:**
- Mason reflects on his experiences working with legendary coaches like Chris Ramsey, Alex Inglethorpe, and Mauricio Pochettino.
- He credits these coaches for instilling in him valuable lessons about leadership, motivation, and the importance of believing in oneself.

7. **Future Aspirations and Readiness for Premier League Management:**
- Mason expresses his desire to eventually manage a Premier League club but acknowledges the importance of staying focused on his current role and continuing to learn and grow.
- He believes in the value of taking things one step at a time and preparing himself for the challenges of top-level management.

**Conclusion:**

Ryan Mason's journey from a promising footballer to a successful coach is a testament to his resilience, adaptability, and passion for the game. His emphasis on emotional intelligence, intuition, and connection resonates with modern coaching philosophies, highlighting the importance of building strong relationships and creating a positive environment for players to thrive. Mason's insights offer valuable lessons for aspiring coaches and leaders in any field, emphasizing the power of trust, belief, and the pursuit of excellence.

# **Navigating Life's Challenges with Ryan Mason: A Journey of Resilience and Positivity**

In this episode, the podcast delves into the remarkable story of Ryan Mason, a former professional footballer whose life took an unexpected turn following a life-changing skull injury during a match. Ryan's journey of resilience and positivity is explored as he candidly shares his struggles and triumphs in the aftermath of the injury.

## **From Football Star to Facing Adversity**

Ryan's passion for football led him to a successful career as a professional player, but a fateful match resulted in a severe skull injury that forced him to retire prematurely. This sudden and life-altering event left him grappling with anger, resentment, and uncertainty about his future.

## **Finding a New Path: Coaching and Building Emotional Connections**

Despite the setback, Ryan found a renewed purpose in coaching. He discovered his passion for nurturing and guiding young players, emphasizing the importance of trust, emotional connections, and positive energy within a team. His coaching methods are centered around building a supportive environment where players feel empowered and motivated to reach their full potential.

## **Embracing Positivity and Freedom in Football**

Ryan's philosophy as a coach revolves around fostering a positive mindset and encouraging players to embrace the freedom and joy of playing football. He believes in creating an environment where players can express themselves creatively and take risks without fear of failure. This approach aims to unlock their true potential and bring out the best in each individual.

## **Key Takeaways and Insights**

- **Finding Positives in Adversity:** Ryan's story highlights the power of finding positive aspects even in challenging situations. By reframing his injury as an opportunity for growth and self-discovery, he was able to move forward with resilience and determination.


- **Building Emotional Connections:** Ryan emphasizes the importance of building strong emotional connections within a team. By fostering trust and understanding, coaches can create a supportive environment where players feel valued and motivated to excel.


- **Embracing Freedom and Positivity:** Ryan's coaching philosophy centers around encouraging players to embrace the freedom and joy of playing football. He believes that by creating a positive and supportive environment, players can thrive and reach their full potential.


- **Maintaining a Growth Mindset:** Ryan's journey is a testament to the power of maintaining a growth mindset. Despite facing significant challenges, he remained open to learning and adapting, ultimately finding success in a new chapter of his life.

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[00:38.760 -> 00:44.320] Anyway, welcome to the show. As always, this podcast reminds you that it's within. Your
[00:44.320 -> 00:48.120] ambition, your purpose, your story, they're all there.
[00:48.120 -> 00:50.960] We just help unlock it by turning the lived experiences
[00:50.960 -> 00:54.120] of the planet's highest performers into your life lessons.
[00:54.120 -> 00:57.200] Right now, allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes
[00:57.200 -> 00:59.740] to speak to one of the smartest young football coaches
[00:59.740 -> 01:02.680] on the planet so he can be your teacher.
[01:02.680 -> 01:06.560] And listen, don't switch off if you don't like football
[01:06.560 -> 01:10.280] because this conversation is about life.
[01:10.280 -> 01:11.620] It's about resilience.
[01:11.620 -> 01:12.820] It's about setbacks.
[01:12.820 -> 01:14.980] It's about self-belief.
[01:14.980 -> 01:16.320] It's incredible.
[01:16.320 -> 01:20.120] Today, this is what's in store.
[01:20.120 -> 01:23.000] Obviously at that point, it's sort of code red.
[01:23.000 -> 01:24.620] It's very serious.
[01:24.620 -> 01:29.840] So they drilled through my skull to start draining the blood as soon as possible.
[01:29.840 -> 01:36.240] And that bought time to then go to the operating theatre and open me up and sort of see what was going on.
[01:37.120 -> 01:45.520] I had to accept sacrificing my whole life to get to a certain level, to live this life to to enjoy playing football
[01:45.520 -> 01:50.880] that had been taken away from me that was my dream as a kid to go and play at
[01:50.880 -> 01:53.840] White Hart Lane and score at White Hart Lane that was my dream that was the
[01:53.840 -> 01:58.360] ultimate dream as a kid and I achieved that which is which is pretty cool
[01:58.360 -> 02:02.560] I had an out-of-body experience I had this vision where I was looking down on
[02:02.560 -> 02:10.260] myself with my wife and two children and at the time we we didn't have kids so I visualized myself I had
[02:10.260 -> 02:14.900] this dream, this out-of-body experience. I had a son, I had a daughter and that's what
[02:14.900 -> 02:20.400] I've got now. It was a decision they made and they felt that I was the right man
[02:20.400 -> 02:26.440] to take the final seven games. I'd experienced a lot. I'd spent a lot of time on the grass
[02:26.440 -> 02:29.840] and I'd done the yards to earn that
[02:29.840 -> 02:34.600] and feel comfortable to say, I am ready, absolutely.
[02:36.820 -> 02:37.660] So in this episode,
[02:37.660 -> 02:39.760] we welcome to the High Performance Podcast,
[02:39.760 -> 02:43.320] the first team coach at Tottenham, Ryan Mason.
[02:43.320 -> 02:45.920] He's actually someone who's been working very closely with the team
[02:45.920 -> 02:49.440] in the last few weeks because the Tottenham Hotspur manager, Antonio Conte,
[02:49.440 -> 02:52.120] has had a period of recuperation after illness
[02:52.120 -> 02:54.960] and alongside the assistant manager, Christian Stellini,
[02:54.960 -> 02:57.800] Ryan has been integral in keeping the club going.
[02:57.800 -> 03:01.080] But you're going to hear a story about what happened
[03:01.080 -> 03:04.080] the night that Ryan's world changed forever,
[03:04.080 -> 03:08.640] the night that he suffered a really serious brain injury on the field of play.
[03:08.640 -> 03:13.040] You'll hear him talk about the shock when he was told by the doctors about the severity of the injury,
[03:13.040 -> 03:17.200] the support from the people around him, what the road to recovery was like,
[03:17.200 -> 03:20.960] the realisation that actually he would not play again.
[03:20.960 -> 03:25.840] And he talks in really moving detail about how hard that was. But then comes
[03:25.840 -> 03:31.120] the really good stuff. Then comes the comeback. Then comes his reaction to the hand that he'd
[03:31.120 -> 03:37.000] been dealt. How he communicates, what drives him, what did he draw on the day that Jose
[03:37.000 -> 03:41.200] Mourinho lost his job at Spurs and Ryan was asked to take the team and become the youngest
[03:41.200 -> 03:45.280] ever Premier League manager, including leading Spurs into a cup final.
[03:45.280 -> 03:47.840] This conversation is moving, it's inspiring,
[03:47.840 -> 03:51.040] it's uplifting, it's revealing in equal parts,
[03:51.040 -> 03:52.960] and I really hope you enjoy it.
[03:52.960 -> 03:54.960] Thanks for joining us once again
[03:54.960 -> 03:57.120] for a brand new episode of High Performance,
[03:57.120 -> 04:01.920] as we welcome a man with a truly remarkable story,
[04:01.920 -> 04:02.960] Ryan Mason.
[04:08.600 -> 04:13.880] remarkable story. Ryan Mason. As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns. But
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[04:44.440 -> 04:49.800] So, does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
[04:49.800 -> 04:51.240] voice in the world?
[04:51.240 -> 04:52.240] Yes.
[04:52.240 -> 04:53.400] Yes, it does.
[04:53.400 -> 04:57.880] Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
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[06:46.920 -> 06:54.480] Well Ryan, thank you very much for joining us.
[06:54.480 -> 06:55.480] Thanks for having me on.
[06:55.480 -> 06:59.580] There's so many places we could start this conversation. You've done so much in your
[06:59.580 -> 07:03.280] playing career, now in your coaching career, you know, the youngest person to ever manage
[07:03.280 -> 07:05.240] a Premier League football match.
[07:10.320 -> 07:11.320] Do you mind if we start at the moment that I think is the reason you're sitting here now as a
[07:14.200 -> 07:15.920] 31 year old coach in the Premier League rather than a player? Yeah, let's talk.
[07:15.920 -> 07:21.800] So January 2017. Yep. You're on the pitch at Stamford Bridge playing for Hull.
[07:22.200 -> 07:24.240] What are your memories of that match?
[07:24.960 -> 07:30.600] Excited. We had a new manager probably two or three weeks prior to that. The whole feeling
[07:30.600 -> 07:35.560] around the club had changed. We felt confident going into it. I always loved playing at those
[07:35.560 -> 07:41.200] types of stadiums. Obviously had that rivalry with being an ex-Tottenham player as well.
[07:41.200 -> 07:45.600] So I was up for it. I remember I was going toe-to-toe
[07:45.600 -> 07:50.500] man-for-man with Kante at the time, who was probably the best central midfielder in world
[07:50.500 -> 07:57.540] football. So I wanted that challenge. Obviously it was a Premier League game and your senses
[07:57.540 -> 08:02.400] are so heightened, your energy is up, the adrenaline's there. Obviously, unfortunately
[08:02.400 -> 08:06.000] for me, that incident happened quite early on in the game.
[08:06.000 -> 08:11.000] Okay, so it was a head clash with Gary Cahill. Do you remember the actual moment?
[08:11.000 -> 08:17.000] Yeah, I remember everything. People were amazed. I was conscious the whole time through the incident.
[08:17.000 -> 08:25.600] So tell us, walk us through in your head then when you think back to it, what do you see? I see the ball. I see the ball coming to me.
[08:25.600 -> 08:29.440] I kind of took a couple of steps to clear the ball,
[08:29.440 -> 08:32.000] kind of flick the ball on out the danger zone,
[08:32.000 -> 08:35.320] out of the area, and yeah, then the impact hit.
[08:35.320 -> 08:38.000] And then the body kind of, I mean,
[08:38.000 -> 08:40.960] the adrenaline being pumped through must have been intense
[08:40.960 -> 08:43.680] and pain was pretty unbearable.
[08:43.680 -> 08:44.500] I remember that.
[08:44.500 -> 08:47.740] I could feel it was quite a serious thing.
[08:47.740 -> 08:49.740] I don't know why the body, I guess,
[08:49.740 -> 08:50.580] was just telling me that.
[08:50.580 -> 08:52.900] And yeah, I heard voices.
[08:52.900 -> 08:55.060] I heard people speaking,
[08:55.060 -> 08:57.080] process of getting off the pitch,
[08:57.080 -> 08:58.420] putting a neck brace on,
[08:58.420 -> 09:00.340] getting to the ambulance,
[09:00.340 -> 09:01.380] going to the hospital.
[09:01.380 -> 09:03.620] It was painful.
[09:03.620 -> 09:06.200] I remember it was very, very painful.
[09:06.200 -> 09:09.720] And yeah, I'd be lying if I wasn't scared
[09:09.720 -> 09:13.360] and I feared a lot, that's for sure.
[09:13.360 -> 09:15.720] So what were the kind of conscious thoughts you were having
[09:15.720 -> 09:18.680] in between this searing pain?
[09:18.680 -> 09:20.440] What were the kind of comments
[09:20.440 -> 09:22.200] you were making to yourself, Ryan?
[09:22.200 -> 09:24.360] I think it was just about managing pain,
[09:24.360 -> 09:26.320] to be perfectly honest.
[09:26.320 -> 09:31.800] And then when I got in the ambulance, I remember my dad, he said these words that just were
[09:31.800 -> 09:33.800] so powerful, he said, you're a strong boy.
[09:33.800 -> 09:40.280] And I remember in that moment, it almost like fuelled me with energy to sort of fight the
[09:40.280 -> 09:41.640] pain I guess.
[09:41.640 -> 09:45.120] Then in the ambulance, I get filled with drugs and painkillers.
[09:45.120 -> 09:47.040] And by the time I got to the hospital,
[09:47.040 -> 09:49.720] it was, yeah, I was out of it.
[09:49.720 -> 09:51.600] So when did you first become aware
[09:51.600 -> 09:54.000] that this wasn't just a clash of heads
[09:54.000 -> 09:56.380] that would have you on the sidelines for a couple of weeks?
[09:56.380 -> 10:00.000] I'd probably say a day, two days after
[10:00.000 -> 10:04.040] when I fully come round, I was fully conscious.
[10:04.040 -> 10:08.040] I realized that I had best part of 50 staples in my head.
[10:08.040 -> 10:11.600] Doctors were monitoring me every three or four hours
[10:11.600 -> 10:15.280] and you can tell, you can tell by the look on people's faces,
[10:15.280 -> 10:19.400] my parents were worried, my wife now was at my bedside,
[10:19.400 -> 10:22.400] she was scared and I think you get a feeling,
[10:22.400 -> 10:23.960] you can sense it.
[10:23.960 -> 10:28.400] Luckily for me, I was out of it for the best part of 20,
[10:28.400 -> 10:29.600] 22 hours a day.
[10:29.600 -> 10:33.160] So the pain that I felt was only physical
[10:33.160 -> 10:34.240] when I was awake.
[10:34.240 -> 10:37.520] And I guess I was quite lucky in that stage
[10:37.520 -> 10:39.000] because I didn't get to see myself
[10:39.000 -> 10:41.000] and I was just recovering.
[10:41.000 -> 10:43.760] Whereas my wife, my family, my friends,
[10:43.760 -> 10:46.560] my people close to me had to come and see me
[10:46.560 -> 10:49.080] in this state of sort of this vulnerability
[10:49.080 -> 10:52.200] where there was just so much uncertainty at the time
[10:52.200 -> 10:56.640] of where I was gonna sort of come back round to.
[10:56.640 -> 10:57.920] Let's talk about that then.
[10:57.920 -> 11:00.520] So you've gone from the fear on the stretcher
[11:00.520 -> 11:01.760] being taken out of Stamford Bridge
[11:01.760 -> 11:03.960] not knowing what was going on.
[11:03.960 -> 11:09.260] Was there a moment where you kind of had to say to yourself right use what you know to be
[11:09.260 -> 11:13.020] strong here or did it feel quite a natural process to have what you
[11:13.020 -> 11:17.420] describe as a strong mental approach? Yeah initially it felt natural because
[11:17.420 -> 11:23.740] the body is powerful. The body was telling me I needed to sleep and I was
[11:23.740 -> 11:29.900] listening and just sleeping and then when I was conscious it was just a feeling of I need to get
[11:29.900 -> 11:32.580] out of this hospital I need to I need to recover I need to get back playing
[11:32.580 -> 11:37.220] football that that was that was my initial thoughts which were crazy at the
[11:37.220 -> 11:41.000] time but I just wanted to get better. But this is different though because this is
[11:41.000 -> 11:46.040] a head injury right this isn't a broken leg that heals in a linear way.
[11:46.040 -> 11:49.320] You know, head injuries are notoriously complex.
[11:49.320 -> 11:54.080] So let's go to the moment where you were first told, like, this is serious.
[11:54.080 -> 11:55.720] Who delivered that news to you?
[11:55.720 -> 12:00.240] Yeah, I can't put a specific moment on it, to be honest.
[12:00.240 -> 12:03.920] I've got a diary at home of everything, I'm sure it would be in there, but everyone close
[12:03.920 -> 12:05.840] to me protected me initially.
[12:05.840 -> 12:11.080] I didn't know that I had a tube in my head that they had to drain the blood from when
[12:11.080 -> 12:16.020] the incident happened because I went unresponsive and had to drain the blood from my brain as
[12:16.020 -> 12:17.020] soon as possible.
[12:17.020 -> 12:23.540] So four days in, a doctor comes in and says, right, we're taking the tube out of my head
[12:23.540 -> 12:25.000] and I was like,
[12:25.040 -> 12:27.040] whoa, I've got a tube in my head, what do you mean?
[12:27.040 -> 12:29.080] He was like, yeah, it's fine, it won't hurt.
[12:29.080 -> 12:32.080] And the next thing I know he's pulling this out
[12:32.080 -> 12:34.800] and stitching my skin up on my head.
[12:34.800 -> 12:35.640] So when was that done to you?
[12:35.640 -> 12:37.840] I think that was three or four days after.
[12:37.840 -> 12:39.440] But when did it go in?
[12:39.440 -> 12:41.240] Oh, when, so I got to the hospital
[12:41.240 -> 12:43.560] and just before I went in to get scanned,
[12:43.560 -> 12:45.200] I went unresponsive.
[12:45.200 -> 12:50.480] So obviously at that point it's sort of code red, it's very serious.
[12:50.480 -> 12:56.600] So they drilled through my skull to start draining the blood as soon as possible and
[12:56.600 -> 13:01.480] that bought time to then go to the operating theatre and open me up and sort of see what
[13:01.480 -> 13:02.480] was going on.
[13:02.480 -> 13:05.280] So I wasn't aware of that initially and like I say I
[13:05.280 -> 13:11.360] had I think I had 48 staples in my head but I didn't know that until they came around and said
[13:11.360 -> 13:16.560] right we're going to take your staples out. So I'm sort of sitting there like what's actually,
[13:16.560 -> 13:23.680] what does this look like, how bad is this? I didn't know to be honest Jake, it took me a long time to
[13:25.920 -> 13:27.420] I didn't know to be honest Jake, it took me a long time to realise and understand the severity of it.
[13:27.420 -> 13:31.640] My parents, my wife, the doctors protected me.
[13:31.640 -> 13:35.680] I remember the surgeon come round maybe on day 7 and just said, oh yeah he'll be up and
[13:35.680 -> 13:36.680] running soon.
[13:36.680 -> 13:41.920] He just had this blasé approach about everything and I heard him say that and thought, oh okay
[13:41.920 -> 13:45.080] this isn't that serious. But obviously
[13:45.080 -> 13:50.960] when I started to try to walk and stand up and all of these things it kind
[13:50.960 -> 13:55.080] of hit home that yeah this is quite a serious thing and this is
[13:55.080 -> 14:00.120] going to take some time to get better. There's real parallels in your situation
[14:00.120 -> 14:04.080] with another guest that we've had on, a young racing driver called Billy Monger
[14:04.080 -> 14:09.440] that was involved in a catastrophic accident and described to us waking up
[14:09.440 -> 14:14.800] from a five-day induced coma and looking down and realizing that he had both his
[14:14.800 -> 14:19.040] legs amputated above the knee. What we were intrigued about when talking to
[14:19.040 -> 14:23.640] Billy and I'm interested in your answer to this is, how do you make that mental
[14:23.640 -> 14:25.220] adjustment? Because he talks about, how do you make that mental adjustment?
[14:25.220 -> 14:26.900] Because he talks about, at first you're thinking,
[14:26.900 -> 14:27.740] who do I blame?
[14:27.740 -> 14:29.620] Who can I direct my anger to?
[14:29.620 -> 14:31.620] Or where does my bitterness go?
[14:31.620 -> 14:33.300] And then eventually it's, I say,
[14:33.300 -> 14:37.700] how do I just get on with this and get my life back on track?
[14:37.700 -> 14:39.340] How did that happen for you?
[14:39.340 -> 14:40.900] Yeah, I think for me, that was probably
[14:40.900 -> 14:42.500] further down the line,
[14:42.500 -> 14:45.800] because initially it was just this feeling,
[14:45.800 -> 14:47.720] this desire to get better.
[14:47.720 -> 14:48.600] I need to recover.
[14:48.600 -> 14:51.280] I need to do whatever it takes to get better,
[14:51.280 -> 14:54.160] to start walking again, to start running,
[14:54.160 -> 14:56.000] to start playing football again.
[14:56.000 -> 14:58.400] So my only focus was on that.
[14:58.400 -> 15:01.280] As time went on and I was at home
[15:01.280 -> 15:04.520] and I started doing more, being a bit more active,
[15:04.520 -> 15:07.160] I think naturally you start to get angry,
[15:07.160 -> 15:08.920] like why did that happen?
[15:10.000 -> 15:13.160] And you're constantly fighting with those demons, I guess,
[15:13.160 -> 15:16.420] to am I gonna allow myself to get down
[15:16.420 -> 15:18.140] and start thinking, oh, I should have done this,
[15:18.140 -> 15:18.980] I should have done that.
[15:18.980 -> 15:20.720] Maybe if I would have headed the ball that way,
[15:20.720 -> 15:22.140] then this wouldn't have happened.
[15:22.140 -> 15:28.680] Or maybe if all of these things go through your head but I felt so strong mentally in that moment that I
[15:28.680 -> 15:33.440] was able just to brush them away and say no like I'm gonna come back I'm gonna be
[15:33.440 -> 15:37.560] better than what I was before. But just talk us through the granular detail of
[15:37.560 -> 15:40.480] how you do that because there's lots of people listening to this that be like
[15:40.480 -> 15:45.040] I'd love to have that mental
[15:41.920 -> 15:47.520] strength or I'd like to be able to brush those
[15:45.040 -> 15:50.320] feelings of anger or bitterness away. Can
[15:47.520 -> 15:52.400] you give us any specific techniques that
[15:50.320 -> 15:55.280] you've employed to be able to do that? Yeah
[15:52.400 -> 15:57.600] I mean previous experiences helped what
[15:55.280 -> 16:00.120] I've gone through in life. Being doubted,
[15:57.600 -> 16:02.760] so one that springs to mind would be
[16:00.120 -> 16:05.440] a loan spell in France when I went to
[16:02.760 -> 16:06.320] Lorient in January, didn't play a minute. After two
[16:06.320 -> 16:10.280] weeks I spoke to the manager and he said it wasn't his decision, you can go back to Tottenham
[16:10.280 -> 16:14.840] if you want. And that kind of decision in that moment saying, no, do you know what?
[16:14.840 -> 16:18.760] I'm not going back. I can't go back. It's embarrassing to go back. I need to prove to
[16:18.760 -> 16:24.240] you that I can play. I'm going to stay. Fast forward five months, the end of May, I didn't
[16:24.240 -> 16:27.000] play a minute, but I stuck it out.
[16:27.000 -> 16:28.280] I stayed in France on my own.
[16:28.280 -> 16:29.840] I lived on my own for five months.
[16:29.840 -> 16:32.200] I tried to learn the language.
[16:32.200 -> 16:36.200] My Skype called my family and friends every day.
[16:36.200 -> 16:37.760] They were supportive and helped me get through,
[16:37.760 -> 16:40.280] but I was very conscious at the time
[16:40.280 -> 16:43.160] that this was almost like,
[16:43.160 -> 16:48.000] it probably had more value than actually playing because next year, next preseason,
[16:48.000 -> 16:50.040] I'm gonna be hungrier than ever.
[16:50.040 -> 16:53.800] I'm gonna be mentally stronger than I've ever been.
[16:53.800 -> 16:57.080] Because of this moment, I knew that there would have been
[16:57.080 -> 17:00.320] so many people got on the first plane back to England,
[17:00.320 -> 17:02.120] get in their comfort zone, around their family,
[17:02.120 -> 17:04.920] around their friends, and have four or five months
[17:04.920 -> 17:06.400] at Tottenham's training ground,
[17:06.400 -> 17:07.680] which is one of the best in the world,
[17:07.680 -> 17:10.200] and just kind of take their foot off the gas a little bit.
[17:10.200 -> 17:12.680] But in that moment, it was,
[17:12.680 -> 17:15.440] no, I need to knuckle down, I need to work harder,
[17:15.440 -> 17:18.400] and I would better for it.
[17:18.400 -> 17:21.440] So your journey so far in this story has been,
[17:21.440 -> 17:24.160] you know, the head injury, incredibly painful,
[17:24.160 -> 17:26.320] but you think people get injured in football. Then you know, the head injury, incredibly painful, but you think people get
[17:26.320 -> 17:30.280] injured in football. Then you're in the hospital and you don't really know what's happened
[17:30.280 -> 17:37.320] to you, the, you know, tube in your head, the 50 staples. Then you come out of hospital
[17:37.320 -> 17:41.760] and you're thinking, right, now's the time to get back and to recover. When is the first
[17:41.760 -> 17:46.320] conversation about you might not have a future as a footballer?
[17:46.320 -> 17:52.200] So in terms of someone telling me that I think it was in September so I had I had
[17:52.200 -> 17:57.360] the scout I had the... Nine months later. Nine months after yeah so we wanted to just
[17:57.360 -> 18:02.740] wait to let the body heal. In the June in the summer I remember I went on a
[18:02.740 -> 18:10.360] training camp to Portugal so at the start of the training camp, I hadn't run, I hadn't jogged, I literally just walked.
[18:10.360 -> 18:13.000] And the muscle memory was incredible.
[18:13.000 -> 18:16.360] By the end of the two weeks, I was pretty much doing everything.
[18:16.360 -> 18:19.920] I was sprinting, I was running, I was doing the lots.
[18:19.920 -> 18:22.200] My mind had cleared in that sense.
[18:22.200 -> 18:29.600] The doctor's advice was the skull needs time to heal, to fuse back together because got 12 metal plates in there it needs
[18:29.600 -> 18:34.700] time to fuse and get strong again so we'll scan you in September. Yeah so I
[18:34.700 -> 18:38.660] come to you in June time, you've just finished this couple of weeks on the
[18:38.660 -> 18:42.380] grass and I said to you are you gonna play again? What's your answer at that point?
[18:42.380 -> 18:49.560] Yeah September. No doubts, no fears? There, there was no doubts and it was all geared towards that scan and it was around the time
[18:49.560 -> 18:53.120] where it was the first round of the Carabao Cup and the game was on the Tuesday.
[18:53.120 -> 18:58.240] I remember on the Monday, Nigel Atkins was the manager at the time, obviously me being
[18:58.240 -> 19:01.760] me, I was fit, I felt like I was stronger than I'd ever been before.
[19:01.760 -> 19:03.960] I said, I can play tomorrow, I'm ready.
[19:03.960 -> 19:06.560] And he was like, yeah, yeah, we'll see, we'll see.
[19:06.560 -> 19:09.360] So I joined in the training on the Monday.
[19:09.360 -> 19:11.200] I went for the scan that Monday afternoon,
[19:11.200 -> 19:14.120] it was like, this is not good.
[19:14.120 -> 19:17.360] The gaps in the skull, they're just too big.
[19:17.360 -> 19:21.160] It's the whole way the pipe had sort of been put in,
[19:21.160 -> 19:23.080] it hasn't fused well enough.
[19:23.080 -> 19:24.320] There was just gaps everywhere.
[19:24.320 -> 19:25.680] And I think at
[19:25.680 -> 19:30.760] that point the club naturally probably thought, he's done, there's no chance he's going to
[19:30.760 -> 19:37.440] play again. We had those conversations but the chairman, Iyab, was excellent. He said,
[19:37.440 -> 19:42.040] look, we'll give it another six months and see where you're at then. So my mind had gone
[19:42.040 -> 19:46.920] from, right, I'm going to tomorrow to, the next checkpoint was February,
[19:46.920 -> 19:48.920] and six months time, the next scan.
[19:48.920 -> 19:53.800] So I had six months of training on my own.
[19:53.800 -> 19:57.120] I was going to the hospital four times a week
[19:57.120 -> 20:00.860] to an oxygen chamber because there was a correlation
[20:00.860 -> 20:04.300] between reducing oxygen to bone healing,
[20:04.300 -> 20:06.740] and I'd done all this for five months
[20:06.740 -> 20:09.920] with the end goal that I'm gonna play again in February.
[20:09.920 -> 20:11.480] Give us your mindset at this point then
[20:11.480 -> 20:13.580] because I've spoken to footballers
[20:13.580 -> 20:15.600] who have two weeks out with a hamstring strain
[20:15.600 -> 20:16.540] and they struggle.
[20:17.860 -> 20:19.920] Are we still talking here about optimistic Ryan
[20:19.920 -> 20:21.360] thinking everything's gonna be okay?
[20:21.360 -> 20:22.200] Yeah, absolutely.
[20:22.200 -> 20:24.280] So at the time, so I'd left Tottenham
[20:24.280 -> 20:26.420] and got to the Champions League
[20:26.420 -> 20:28.680] to go to Hull to pursue my career
[20:28.680 -> 20:29.960] and sort of grow again
[20:29.960 -> 20:32.380] and come back to the highest level again.
[20:32.380 -> 20:34.600] By the time I'd come back ready to play again,
[20:34.600 -> 20:36.640] the club had been relegated, we're in the championship.
[20:36.640 -> 20:38.280] So for me, it was,
[20:38.280 -> 20:41.440] I need three months to just prove that I'm Ryan Mason
[20:41.440 -> 20:43.560] and I'm going to get my Premier League move again
[20:43.560 -> 20:47.920] or hopefully get Hull back in the Premier League. but I need to get back to that level. It was
[20:47.920 -> 20:53.160] it was an obsession. I can't play in the Championship. I'd worked 23 years to be a
[20:53.160 -> 20:57.320] Premier League player. I'd got there, I'd achieved it, I'd had my Premier
[20:57.320 -> 21:01.560] League games and I can't be a Championship player. That's not right.
[21:01.560 -> 21:04.920] But let's talk about consistency though because at this stage now we're coming
[21:04.920 -> 21:08.240] up to, what is it, over a year since you've had the
[21:08.240 -> 21:13.100] accident you've had this comeback date that's them in pushback and I can see
[21:13.100 -> 21:17.240] the obvious incentive like the outcome of playing first team football again
[21:17.240 -> 21:21.520] maybe getting a move or getting hub promoted but what keeps you going on
[21:21.520 -> 21:28.860] that like a cold February morning when you're tired you still six months from a decision of whether you can come back and you
[21:29.260 -> 21:35.500] You'd have an excuse to stay in bed half an hour longer or decide not to put the full effort in when you go to the
[21:35.500 -> 21:38.140] Gym, how did you overcome that?
[21:38.900 -> 21:40.900] resistance dreaming
[21:40.940 -> 21:43.580] honestly a massive on visualization
[21:44.700 -> 21:48.600] consciously thinking imagining certain situations.
[21:48.600 -> 21:51.080] I imagine myself playing for Tottenham again.
[21:51.080 -> 21:52.000] That was probably the goal.
[21:52.000 -> 21:54.200] I'd left them, but now the new goal
[21:54.200 -> 21:55.520] to get back to that level
[21:55.520 -> 21:56.760] and go and play for Tottenham again,
[21:56.760 -> 21:58.160] go and play for England again.
[21:58.160 -> 22:01.360] So every day I was at home or on the pitch
[22:01.360 -> 22:03.160] and yeah, you have these thoughts,
[22:03.160 -> 22:11.200] these images of this dream to kind of achieve that, this obsession to get there, I guess.
[22:11.200 -> 22:12.200] So did you have self-doubt?
[22:12.200 -> 22:15.520] No, Jake, I had no doubts, honestly.
[22:15.520 -> 22:17.920] Your self-belief was rock solid then.
[22:17.920 -> 22:25.480] Yeah, I mean, to kind of answer that question, I played for Tottenham, my Premier League debut was at 23.
[22:25.480 -> 22:29.280] Considering I made my debut for Tottenham at 17
[22:29.280 -> 22:32.700] in Europa League, I went and played in League One at 18
[22:32.700 -> 22:35.180] for Yeovil and had a full season there.
[22:35.180 -> 22:39.740] So I had five full seasons where it was this end goal,
[22:39.740 -> 22:42.800] this obsession, I can't accept anything less.
[22:42.800 -> 22:45.240] I can't accept, if I leave Tottenham now,
[22:45.240 -> 22:48.040] then I'll regret that for the rest of my life.
[22:48.040 -> 22:50.480] And I don't like regretting things.
[22:50.480 -> 22:53.320] I don't think that's a good thing.
[22:53.320 -> 22:54.840] And if you go with your gut,
[22:54.840 -> 22:58.120] and if you really believe in something,
[22:58.120 -> 23:00.280] then I don't think you'll regret things.
[23:00.280 -> 23:02.160] And I don't regret anything.
[23:02.160 -> 23:05.480] I could accept retiring because I dedicated my life
[23:05.480 -> 23:07.760] to football, to get into the highest level,
[23:07.760 -> 23:11.040] and it was easier to come to terms with retiring
[23:11.040 -> 23:13.760] because I knew deep down that I couldn't really
[23:13.760 -> 23:15.320] have done any more.
[23:15.320 -> 23:17.240] So how did the retirement come about?
[23:17.240 -> 23:18.820] It was more scans.
[23:20.160 -> 23:23.080] So I had a scan on the skull, but then at that point
[23:23.080 -> 23:25.120] we decided, you know what, I think we need
[23:25.120 -> 23:30.800] to look at the brain as well and scan the brain and see where that's at. And that got damaged
[23:30.800 -> 23:35.120] quite bad and that was taken out of my hands at that point. I spoke to sort of three or four
[23:35.120 -> 23:39.600] specialists, some professors, and they were like, look, you can't play football again. If you do,
[23:39.600 -> 23:47.720] then the risk of dementia goes up to 45%, the risk of this goes up to 60% and all of
[23:47.720 -> 23:52.480] these things these numbers it was like well it's quite definitive I guess and
[23:52.480 -> 23:58.680] it was... Did you try and fight it? When I heard those no I just had a child so my son was
[23:58.680 -> 24:04.000] three or four weeks old and it kind of just made me realize that I just know
[24:04.000 -> 24:05.140] what like I've got another purpose now I I don't know what, like I've got
[24:05.140 -> 24:08.720] another purpose now, I've got to be a good dad, I've got a son, I've got this
[24:08.720 -> 24:13.400] this new energy that I can devote to something else, this whole new
[24:13.400 -> 24:18.860] world has opened up and the timing was great. Honestly the timing of the
[24:18.860 -> 24:21.960] whole thing, if I look back it was it was perfect.
[24:21.960 -> 24:30.160] One of the characteristics that you said has been invaluable on your journey was the inner circle, that trusted group of people that
[24:30.160 -> 24:35.400] you'd learned to surround yourself with. How did they react to this news? Relief
[24:35.400 -> 24:42.520] yeah massive relief. The day I said I had to retire my mom my dad my wife now it
[24:42.520 -> 24:45.920] was like a it was a it was a weight off their shoulders.
[24:46.920 -> 24:49.520] They mentioned it before, but they realized
[24:49.520 -> 24:53.020] that I was so obsessed with coming back
[24:53.020 -> 24:54.640] that I think they recognized, you know what,
[24:54.640 -> 24:57.960] we need to just let him do it, we need to support him,
[24:57.960 -> 25:01.200] we need to be there, we've said we would rather you not play
[25:01.200 -> 25:04.680] but they accepted that it was never an option.
[25:04.680 -> 25:05.640] The day I retired, the day
[25:05.640 -> 25:11.680] I said I retired, it was emotional. I'm not going to lie, it was very emotional for me,
[25:11.680 -> 25:16.960] my mum, my wife, my dad, everyone close to me. It was tough but once I...
[25:16.960 -> 25:18.480] What made you emotional at that point?
[25:18.480 -> 25:26.240] I wasn't going to achieve my dreams. The new dreams that I'd sort of imagined every day for a year, I wasn't going to have that.
[25:26.240 -> 25:33.120] And it was sad, it was sad that I had to accept sacrificing my whole life to get to a certain
[25:33.120 -> 25:39.840] level, to live this life, to enjoy playing football. That had been taken away from me.
[25:39.840 -> 25:43.760] It wasn't nothing I'd done because I wouldn't change anything that I'd done in that incident.
[25:44.320 -> 25:46.040] I would do it again tomorrow.
[25:46.040 -> 25:47.480] It was difficult to accept,
[25:47.480 -> 25:50.200] and the months after retiring were tough,
[25:50.200 -> 25:53.000] because you soon realize that,
[25:53.000 -> 25:55.360] do you know what, I'm not a footballer no more.
[25:55.360 -> 25:56.680] Yeah, take us there.
[25:56.680 -> 25:58.080] It was tough.
[25:58.080 -> 26:00.080] Obviously, like I said, I had my son,
[26:00.080 -> 26:02.520] who was this focus.
[26:02.520 -> 26:04.960] My wife is just amazing.
[26:04.960 -> 26:06.600] She's been amazing through everything,
[26:06.600 -> 26:09.240] the recovery, the whole process.
[26:09.240 -> 26:10.360] She was supportive.
[26:10.360 -> 26:13.680] She realized that I needed to go and find something else,
[26:13.680 -> 26:17.760] go and find a new obsession, which was golf initially.
[26:17.760 -> 26:19.760] So I learned to play the piano.
[26:19.760 -> 26:22.000] And then after time sort of had two or three months away
[26:22.000 -> 26:23.200] from football, it was,
[26:24.440 -> 26:30.160] kind of had this urge to get back in. And I spoke to some people at the club, John McDermott, at the time the
[26:30.160 -> 26:35.480] academy manager, he said look, come in, get a feel for it and just see where it goes.
[26:35.480 -> 26:40.360] Well so, on all this doctor's advice and all those stats that you were told and the damage
[26:40.360 -> 26:47.160] to the brain and the gaps in your skull, the pull of the game was so strong that you still tried.
[26:47.160 -> 26:50.920] Yeah, Jake, I grew up playing football in my garden.
[26:50.920 -> 26:53.800] I used to come home and play football at break time,
[26:53.800 -> 26:54.880] football at lunchtime.
[26:54.880 -> 26:56.240] I'd come home and play football,
[26:56.240 -> 26:58.560] and then my dad or my mom or my family
[26:58.560 -> 27:01.720] would take me to Chigwell to go and train.
[27:01.720 -> 27:04.960] It was this love of the game, this obsession
[27:04.960 -> 27:06.800] where I never felt tired when
[27:06.800 -> 27:11.280] I was young, it was just this joy of kicking a ball against a wall or kicking a ball in
[27:11.280 -> 27:16.480] a goal, in an empty goal and having this dream, imagining I'm scoring at White Hart Lane because
[27:16.480 -> 27:20.880] that was my dream as a kid to go and play at White Hart Lane and score at White Hart Lane.
[27:20.880 -> 27:26.840] That was my dream, that was the ultimate dream as a kid. And I achieved that, which is pretty cool.
[27:26.840 -> 27:28.420] That's something I look back on
[27:28.420 -> 27:31.360] and it always gives me a good feeling inside.
[27:31.360 -> 27:34.600] But yeah, during those moments, there was new dreams.
[27:34.600 -> 27:36.540] There was new dreams of coming back
[27:36.540 -> 27:39.280] to play for England again, because I only had one cap.
[27:39.280 -> 27:40.920] I was in sort of four or five squads
[27:40.920 -> 27:43.280] and I believe I would have played for England again.
[27:43.280 -> 27:49.120] If you ask me now, I'd probably be playing for England. I'm 31, I'm in my prime, I would have got more England
[27:49.120 -> 27:55.280] caps. So that was the pull to come back and prove that I'm a good player.
[27:55.280 -> 27:57.960] Steve Miller So what really interests me in your answer
[27:57.960 -> 28:02.520] is this phrase you've used a few times about the dream. The dream kept you consistent,
[28:02.520 -> 28:09.080] training on your own. The dream of scoring up White Hart Lane for Spurs was what kept you through that five years
[28:09.080 -> 28:14.520] of going out on loan from 17 to 23 when you made your breakthrough. And I'm
[28:14.520 -> 28:19.160] interested in the technique of dreaming because all those dreams were almost
[28:19.160 -> 28:24.120] obvious ones to take when you're on that path of being a footballer but then the
[28:24.120 -> 28:29.460] rug gets pulled from under you and you've now got a blank canvas. How do you go
[28:29.460 -> 28:33.900] about dreaming to give you that new focus? Because I'm thinking for people
[28:33.900 -> 28:38.580] listening to this that may be stuck in a career or maybe at an age where
[28:38.580 -> 28:42.500] they're starting to plot their life ahead. I think what you're describing is
[28:42.500 -> 28:48.160] something really a really powerful technique. Yeah I think naturally I've always been someone who visualizes so
[28:48.160 -> 28:51.640] when I was young I've done the same thing. But tell us about visualization
[28:51.640 -> 28:54.520] for somebody that's never done it or wouldn't know where to start with it.
[28:54.520 -> 29:00.560] Yeah I think I guess it's if you desire something so one how'd you get there but
[29:00.560 -> 29:07.580] then I guess you've always got to have the end in mind. If I wanted to play for England,
[29:07.580 -> 29:10.160] I wasn't going to visualise me going to the gym
[29:10.160 -> 29:12.380] at four o'clock in the afternoon
[29:12.380 -> 29:16.800] and grinding and going through those difficult times,
[29:16.800 -> 29:18.880] because that doesn't send signals to my brain,
[29:18.880 -> 29:22.120] it doesn't give me joy, it doesn't give me happiness.
[29:22.120 -> 29:23.480] But if I see myself playing for England
[29:23.480 -> 29:24.640] and putting on that England shirt,
[29:24.640 -> 29:26.460] then it makes me come alive.
[29:26.460 -> 29:28.360] It gives you energy.
[29:28.360 -> 29:29.400] It's quite powerful.
[29:29.400 -> 29:31.120] And it's interesting in terms of dreaming
[29:31.120 -> 29:36.120] because when I went unresponsive in the hospital,
[29:37.120 -> 29:39.260] I had an out-of-body experience.
[29:39.260 -> 29:42.080] And I remember Glenn Hoddle and I spoke about it
[29:42.080 -> 29:44.000] on one of the podcasts.
[29:44.000 -> 29:47.160] And I had this vision where I was looking down on myself
[29:47.160 -> 29:50.120] with my wife and two children.
[29:50.120 -> 29:52.080] And at the time, we didn't have kids.
[29:52.080 -> 29:54.720] So I visualized myself, I had this dream,
[29:54.720 -> 29:56.160] wow, body experience.
[29:56.160 -> 29:58.440] I had a son, I had a daughter.
[29:58.440 -> 30:01.040] And that's what I've got now, which is really strange,
[30:01.040 -> 30:03.880] but it was a massive help in my recovery
[30:03.880 -> 30:07.440] because it kind of, in that moment where
[30:08.400 -> 30:13.920] I died, I guess, my body stopped working, I was unresponsive, the thing that I craved and wanted
[30:13.920 -> 30:19.760] the most was a family. It's always in my head, even now, like I think about it all the time.
[30:20.640 -> 30:26.480] When I go through sort of tough moments or challenging periods, oh I've got a
[30:26.480 -> 30:31.680] wife, I've got a son and got a daughter, in that moment where everything was lost,
[30:31.680 -> 30:35.560] everything was gone, that was my body's way of saying, you know, this is what you
[30:35.560 -> 30:41.720] value the most. It's a massive help to me now, a massive help because mentally I'm
[30:41.720 -> 30:45.600] ready, I'm prepared for anything and I know that whatever happens,
[30:45.600 -> 30:48.100] I've got what I always wanted.
[30:49.400 -> 30:50.240] I love that.
[30:50.240 -> 30:51.700] You know what I like about that is we're so defined
[30:51.700 -> 30:53.020] by what we do, aren't we?
[30:53.020 -> 30:54.580] You know, first question you ask anyone,
[30:54.580 -> 30:57.420] you'll be, oh, nice to meet you, what do you do?
[30:57.420 -> 31:00.000] And actually you've taken it far beyond just, you know,
[31:00.000 -> 31:02.600] just being a footballer to something much more real,
[31:02.600 -> 31:04.440] which is being a parent and, you know,
[31:04.440 -> 31:08.280] handing on everything you know to your children and it feels um it just
[31:08.280 -> 31:13.720] feels so much more real. Isn't it amazing how like the truth can come to you in
[31:13.720 -> 31:18.240] the strangest of circumstances? Massively, massively and I read a lot of
[31:18.240 -> 31:23.720] books I love reading and I think that's why I think naturally for age I've grew
[31:23.720 -> 31:26.760] quite a bit. The awareness that I need to grow, I need to learn,
[31:26.760 -> 31:27.880] I need to be open-minded,
[31:27.880 -> 31:31.400] it's allowed me to get to this point, I guess.
[31:31.400 -> 31:34.440] But having kids gives more responsibilities,
[31:34.440 -> 31:37.520] more challenges, and it's tough
[31:37.520 -> 31:40.280] because you have so many different roles to fulfill.
[31:40.280 -> 31:42.040] And consciously, I need to be so aware
[31:42.040 -> 31:45.680] that I need to be the best version of me in every moment. So I go into the club, I'm a coach, I need to be so aware that I need to be the best version of me in every moment.
[31:45.680 -> 31:49.360] So I go into the club, I'm a coach, I need to be the best coach.
[31:49.360 -> 31:53.680] I go home, I need to be the best husband, the best dad to my kids.
[31:53.680 -> 31:54.680] I'm a son.
[31:54.680 -> 32:01.280] I've got so many different relationships that you have to be present in all the moments throughout the day.
[32:01.280 -> 32:02.840] It's a great mindset to have.
[32:02.840 -> 32:08.560] I'm interested in when you stopped fighting though, for your football career. When was that moment?
[32:08.560 -> 32:15.600] Well not that long ago, probably two years ago. You retired in... I retired in
[32:15.600 -> 32:22.920] 2018, February. And so for two years... two, three years. Two, three years on you fought
[32:22.920 -> 32:25.600] for the game. Yeah, I say I fought. I used
[32:25.600 -> 32:30.720] to sometimes join in training when I worked in the academy. So I went back, I worked in the academy.
[32:30.720 -> 32:35.680] Some days I would join in with the under 18s, the under 23s. And what were you secretly thinking?
[32:36.480 -> 32:40.720] Good enough to play again. I'm in my prime. I had phone calls with the doc, Doc Waller,
[32:40.720 -> 32:45.200] Mark Waller, who was my whole doctor at the time, we've probably had a few conversations
[32:45.200 -> 32:46.240] over the last few years.
[32:46.240 -> 32:48.280] Doc, do you know what?
[32:48.280 -> 32:49.200] I'm thinking of coming back.
[32:49.200 -> 32:52.520] And within 10 seconds, he shuts me down and that was it.
[32:52.520 -> 32:55.880] And you know, that happened probably
[32:55.880 -> 32:57.160] every two or three months.
[32:57.160 -> 32:59.040] I'd go into my wife and say,
[32:59.040 -> 33:00.560] Rachel, I'm gonna come back.
[33:00.560 -> 33:01.560] I wanna go through it all again.
[33:01.560 -> 33:02.400] I need to.
[33:02.400 -> 33:05.960] And she sort of kind of would talk me out of it.
[33:05.960 -> 33:09.700] Well there's something wrong the concepts of cognitive dissonance here isn't there because
[33:09.700 -> 33:14.200] the idea of cognitive dissonance says that you can hold two competing thoughts in your head at
[33:14.200 -> 33:19.080] the same time but you can only focus essentially on one of them you know so you can have the idea
[33:19.080 -> 33:25.600] of that I'm still Ryan the footballer and then I'm also Ryan the coach. But there's only one of them,
[33:25.600 -> 33:27.880] you can only move in the direction of one.
[33:27.880 -> 33:32.600] So when did you replace it and start to have a more
[33:32.600 -> 33:34.520] powerful vision of Ryan the coach
[33:34.520 -> 33:35.980] rather than the footballer?
[33:36.960 -> 33:39.620] I think time was a good thing.
[33:39.620 -> 33:42.960] I managed the first ever game at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium,
[33:42.960 -> 33:45.440] the under 18s against Southampton,
[33:49.680 -> 33:53.840] that gives me this, this different buzz that you don't get as a player. So how quickly did you get back into coaching after stopping playing?
[33:53.840 -> 33:57.040] Oh, a couple of months, a couple of months part-time.
[33:57.760 -> 33:59.600] Why did you give yourself such a short period of...
[34:00.720 -> 34:06.800] Just love the game, love football, I love being on the grass, I love watching football,
[34:06.800 -> 34:08.880] it's all I've ever known.
[34:08.880 -> 34:10.600] Spent decades trying to be a footballer,
[34:10.600 -> 34:12.240] I'd give my whole life to that game
[34:12.240 -> 34:14.840] and the next two, three, four decades,
[34:14.840 -> 34:18.000] I'm gonna love football, I know that.
[34:18.000 -> 34:19.880] And there was an opportunity to go back
[34:19.880 -> 34:23.560] to the club that I loved, the club that I do love
[34:23.560 -> 34:25.720] and work and help people
[34:25.720 -> 34:31.920] because I valued so much the people that helped me get to where I got to. The
[34:31.920 -> 34:36.280] influence of certain individuals that are a big part of my life now, how they
[34:36.280 -> 34:41.240] affected me and got inside of my mind, my body and made me feel a certain way.
[34:41.240 -> 34:45.920] But what stands out for me in listening to your whole incredible story, Ryan,
[34:45.920 -> 34:48.240] is just how conscious you've been,
[34:48.240 -> 34:50.040] whether that's as a footballer,
[34:50.040 -> 34:52.340] you were conscious of how to improve,
[34:52.340 -> 34:54.040] how to make the most out of loan spells
[34:54.040 -> 34:55.680] or that example in France,
[34:55.680 -> 35:00.300] and as a parent, how to be conscious of maximizing the time.
[35:01.440 -> 35:03.840] I'd like you to expand in more detail
[35:03.840 -> 35:06.560] on how you become that coach that shapes people's
[35:06.560 -> 35:12.640] lives because I get the integrity and acting with authenticity piece, but I think you're
[35:12.640 -> 35:18.840] aware of some of the methods that you use to get that emotional connection to make people
[35:18.840 -> 35:20.440] feel they can run through brick walls.
[35:20.440 -> 35:26.080] And I think there's a lot of listeners that want to understand how you do that so they could do it themselves
[35:27.240 -> 35:32.700] Yeah, I mean, I guess what comes to my I've been very lucky to be exposed to so many great
[35:33.360 -> 35:40.080] People first of all, but then they've been great football people as well. And in my environment, I guess I
[35:40.600 -> 35:43.000] Guess it's what you praise what you value
[35:43.800 -> 35:45.540] What do you value?
[35:45.540 -> 35:50.200] Respect, hard work, people who you want to listen,
[35:50.200 -> 35:52.080] want to improve, because then I feel like
[35:52.080 -> 35:54.120] you can really invest time into them
[35:54.120 -> 35:56.840] and you can get results.
[35:56.840 -> 36:01.340] Luckily for me, my mind was shaped by my parents,
[36:01.340 -> 36:03.960] the people that I was exposed to.
[36:03.960 -> 36:06.640] In football, so my loan spells,
[36:06.640 -> 36:08.480] get thrown into a new football club,
[36:08.480 -> 36:10.040] go out and loan to Yoville,
[36:10.040 -> 36:11.680] you go into a new changing room.
[36:11.680 -> 36:13.680] Who are you gonna align yourself with?
[36:13.680 -> 36:16.480] You need to be very aware, I guess.
[36:16.480 -> 36:18.200] So what type of person I am,
[36:18.200 -> 36:20.160] I'm someone who wants to work hard,
[36:20.160 -> 36:23.280] respectful, wants the team to do well.
[36:23.280 -> 36:25.600] Okay, I'm probably going to naturally gravitate
[36:25.600 -> 36:31.520] towards those people. And then that becomes contagious, you know. I'm a strong believer
[36:31.520 -> 36:38.640] in the energy that we give off. It's so contagious. You need to find strength, some way to
[36:39.280 -> 36:45.840] try and focus on positive things. And I was lucky. I'm open, I'll say that.
[36:49.440 -> 36:53.960] I was probably quite pessimistic when I was very young, but my family just constantly drilled things into me
[36:53.960 -> 36:57.640] and to be positive, to focus on the good things
[36:57.640 -> 37:01.400] and to be grateful, have gratitude for what you have got.
[37:01.400 -> 37:03.120] And then that becomes a habit,
[37:03.120 -> 37:04.200] that becomes a way of thinking.
[37:04.200 -> 37:07.040] And then you can align yourself with the same sort of people,
[37:07.040 -> 37:11.520] you can be open and and sort of try and take things from them to grow even more
[37:11.520 -> 37:16.680] or you can you can influence other people and then it just becomes a way of
[37:16.680 -> 37:22.760] life I guess. So you use that term energy and that's a direct quote that we had
[37:22.760 -> 37:29.840] when we were lucky enough to sit down with your former manager Maurizio Pochettino. Tell us what you mean by energy
[37:29.840 -> 37:34.080] because he said that was a big defining factor of his own coaching. Yes big I
[37:34.080 -> 37:38.440] mean I guess that's why I played under him he was one that gave me my debut and
[37:38.440 -> 37:47.040] I played many games under Maurizio. Body language is massive so you can be be aware of what you're doing. You can tell yourself,
[37:47.040 -> 37:50.560] no, do you know what, I'm going to go into this room with my shoulders back, my chest up and
[37:51.280 -> 37:57.680] betray confidence, for example. Or if you're down or something negative's happened,
[37:58.480 -> 38:10.800] try and smile. These sort of things are a training to a certain extent because we're always dealt with with obstacles, nothing straightforward. In my line of work, in my life, you know,
[38:10.800 -> 38:15.800] my children get ill, there's things that always challenge us and if you
[38:15.800 -> 38:21.400] constantly focus on negative things then that's going to have effect on you, the
[38:21.400 -> 38:29.680] people around you, your energy, how you walk in a room as opposed to, okay if I focus on what's positive or how can we get out of this moment, what
[38:29.680 -> 38:35.160] what do we need to do to to get to this state of happiness or this state of real
[38:35.160 -> 38:40.880] positivity? There's small wins that you can get along that along that road.
[38:40.880 -> 38:46.000] Let's roleplay then, right? When you when you became the Spurs boss, who called you?
[38:46.000 -> 38:52.760] The chairman. So after, obviously the news had been broken to the management team, yeah,
[38:52.760 -> 38:53.760] the chairman, we had a conversation.
[38:53.760 -> 38:54.760] Daniel Levy.
[38:54.760 -> 38:55.760] Yes.
[38:55.760 -> 38:59.880] So you get a phone call from Daniel, Jose Mourinho's gone, you're about to become the
[38:59.880 -> 39:05.560] youngest manager in the history of the Premier League, tell us about the positivity and the
[39:05.560 -> 39:09.360] self-belief and what the mind does. So I've just said those words to you, I'd love to
[39:09.360 -> 39:11.400] know what went through your head at that moment.
[39:11.400 -> 39:12.400] I'm ready.
[39:12.400 -> 39:13.400] Is that what you said to him?
[39:13.400 -> 39:17.000] Yeah, because if I wasn't I wouldn't have took it. I would never have put myself in
[39:17.000 -> 39:19.680] a position where I felt like, you know what, this is too much.
[39:19.680 -> 39:26.000] How do you even know if you're ready though? You see I think That's a belief. It's a belief.
[39:26.000 -> 39:30.120] It's a belief and optimism. Like you are one of the most optimistic people I've ever sat and had a
[39:30.640 -> 39:34.680] conversation with through all the things that you've been through and I think that you know, sometimes
[39:35.280 -> 39:39.880] It's great to just gamble on optimism to gamble on the fact that everything will be great because the truth is
[39:40.040 -> 39:43.000] You didn't know if you were ready or not. How could you? You'd never done it before.
[39:43.000 -> 39:45.760] No, and I think the footballing world probably looked at it and thought,
[39:45.760 -> 39:47.760] what are they doing?
[39:47.760 -> 39:52.160] But I'm around the club a lot and that was their feeling.
[39:52.160 -> 39:55.680] That was the feeling that I had given them, I guess.
[39:55.680 -> 39:56.680] They could trust me.
[39:56.680 -> 40:03.320] They had full trust in me because they'd got rid of one of the most successful managers in the world for many different reasons.
[40:03.320 -> 40:06.480] And it was a decision they made.
[40:06.480 -> 40:09.000] And they felt that I was the right man
[40:09.000 -> 40:11.800] to take the final seven games.
[40:11.800 -> 40:13.760] Yeah, it was a big moment.
[40:13.760 -> 40:16.520] But I put in a lot of effort to that point.
[40:16.520 -> 40:18.200] I think what a lot of people probably don't see,
[40:18.200 -> 40:21.720] they see a 29 year old managing in the Premier League.
[40:21.720 -> 40:24.840] But I'd coached for sort of three and a half years.
[40:24.840 -> 40:26.760] To that point, I took on the 16s, I'd managed on the 17s, on the Premier League, but I'd coached for sort of three and a half years. So at that point I took on the 16s,
[40:26.760 -> 40:28.640] I'd managed on the 17s, on the 18s,
[40:28.640 -> 40:30.480] on the 19s in Europe.
[40:30.480 -> 40:31.880] Like I said, I managed the first ever game
[40:31.880 -> 40:33.600] at the new stadium.
[40:33.600 -> 40:34.920] I'd experienced a lot.
[40:34.920 -> 40:36.680] I'd spent a lot of time on the grass
[40:36.680 -> 40:40.120] and I'd done the yards to earn that
[40:40.120 -> 40:43.280] and feel comfortable to say,
[40:43.280 -> 40:45.280] I am ready, absolutely.
[40:52.000 -> 40:52.560] You know that though, but when you walk in a room of 20 elite level, often cynical,
[40:55.680 -> 41:00.480] Premier League footballers that are really concerned about their own careers and what's this guy going to do for me and is this the right move from the club, I'd love to know the first
[41:00.480 -> 41:07.440] thing you said to the group, some of whom by the way would have been your teammates when you were playing at Spurs all those years ago, some of whom would
[41:07.440 -> 41:10.440] have been older than you were at the time. How did you deal with that?
[41:10.440 -> 41:15.360] Yeah the team weren't in a great place at that point, I mean the confidence was
[41:15.360 -> 41:21.320] extremely low, they weren't especially fit, so I felt like I had some easy wins
[41:21.320 -> 41:24.960] straight away. So naturally I had relationships with some of the players
[41:24.960 -> 41:26.120] before, they knew what type of guy I was, they knew what type of professional I I felt like I had some easy wins straight away. So naturally I had relationships with some of the players before.
[41:26.120 -> 41:27.480] They knew what type of guy I was,
[41:27.480 -> 41:29.200] they knew what type of professional I was,
[41:29.200 -> 41:31.760] so they respected me.
[41:31.760 -> 41:33.920] I respected them because we had that relationship,
[41:33.920 -> 41:36.640] but the reality was they were judging me.
[41:36.640 -> 41:39.360] So you're being judged every day in football,
[41:39.360 -> 41:44.360] you're being judged, I guess, in every moment in life.
[41:44.400 -> 41:46.760] In that moment, okay, what do they need?
[41:46.760 -> 41:48.360] What do they want to hear?
[41:48.360 -> 41:51.080] And had to come from within, I guess.
[41:51.080 -> 41:52.960] They had to know that I was being real
[41:52.960 -> 41:55.040] and I showed some sort of passion
[41:55.040 -> 41:57.320] and then you have to deliver.
[41:57.320 -> 41:58.320] Do you remember what you said?
[41:58.320 -> 42:00.160] Yes, my job to help you guys.
[42:00.160 -> 42:02.280] The only demand, I guess, for me was,
[42:02.280 -> 42:06.080] might have been like 100% effort to be all in and then trust
[42:06.080 -> 42:13.040] me and the team that will help you and give you a structure on the football pitch to win games of
[42:13.040 -> 42:18.720] football. And then we had a game sort of 48 hours later against Southampton was one nil down at
[42:18.720 -> 42:23.280] half time. And I don't think Tottenham had come from behind to win a Premier League game in the
[42:23.280 -> 42:30.640] best part of sort of 18 months, two years. And you could feel that. I remember I had this sort of team talk in my mind,
[42:30.640 -> 42:35.680] okay, how am I going to address them? What do we need to do to change the game, change the momentum
[42:35.680 -> 42:40.720] and give them confidence? And I walked in the changing room and talk about that energy that
[42:40.720 -> 42:45.420] you give off. It was so flat. it was like whoa and it kind of kind of
[42:45.420 -> 42:50.220] struck me that first thing I had to address was bloody hell guys that come
[42:50.220 -> 42:55.360] on it's halftime there's 45 minutes left like sit up get your chin up get your
[42:55.360 -> 42:59.200] chest out that we've got a game we need we need to be ready and you literally
[42:59.200 -> 43:03.320] said that that was the first message and then then it was look these are a couple
[43:03.320 -> 43:05.120] of points on the screen
[43:05.120 -> 43:09.840] you come here and this is how we build up and you need to take this position up to help
[43:09.840 -> 43:15.000] us affect the game. But ultimately football is a lot about what's inside.
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[45:32.880 -> 45:34.440] This is coming at a period of your life
[45:34.440 -> 45:36.480] where you're, it's still fresh enough.
[45:36.480 -> 45:39.360] You can remember coming in and being in that dressing room,
[45:39.360 -> 45:41.600] waiting for the manager to come in.
[45:41.600 -> 45:44.880] How much influence do you think a manager really does have
[45:44.880 -> 45:48.480] at those moments, which is hal-time when the energy is down?
[45:48.480 -> 45:49.200] Massive.
[45:49.200 -> 45:49.920] They do?
[45:49.920 -> 45:56.000] Yeah, that's a manager's job. It's probably the biggest part of the job and I look
[45:56.000 -> 46:02.160] back now and think that half-time team talk was probably like a key moment in
[46:02.160 -> 46:10.920] those six weeks, seven weeks, whatever it was, because I feel that they were like, okay, he knows what he's doing. As a player, you
[46:10.920 -> 46:15.520] want to feel a certain way, so the best coaches, the best managers that I've played
[46:15.520 -> 46:19.840] under, the best people I've come across, they make you feel a certain way.
[46:19.840 -> 46:30.000] Describe, so what those feelings are that you're looking for. Belief, free to a certain extent, because when we were kids we went and played football,
[46:30.000 -> 46:38.000] we were free, right? We had this freedom to go and sort of be instinctive and just run,
[46:38.000 -> 46:43.000] run all day. You were never tired, you never got tired playing football as a kid and
[46:43.000 -> 46:46.360] the best coaches, the best people I've come across,
[46:46.360 -> 46:47.400] you have your structure,
[46:47.400 -> 46:49.720] you have your way of playing, this philosophy,
[46:49.720 -> 46:52.640] this idea of how you want your team to play,
[46:52.640 -> 46:54.520] but you have to transfer energy.
[46:54.520 -> 46:56.620] You have to give emotion, give passion,
[46:56.620 -> 47:00.780] and make the players play how you want to play.
[47:00.780 -> 47:04.680] How do you give them energy and belief and freedom?
[47:04.680 -> 47:06.000] Words, obviously,
[47:06.000 -> 47:11.080] would probably be one of the key ones, but then how you carry yourself, how you
[47:11.080 -> 47:14.640] say the words as well. I mean you could you could read a script of the
[47:14.640 -> 47:19.280] Halftime Team talk and go, wow that's powerful, but someone might deliver it
[47:19.280 -> 47:24.160] and go, he's not connecting with me, that's not real, that's not organic.
[47:24.160 -> 47:30.040] And that's just different people's personalities, no one's the same, no
[47:30.040 -> 47:34.580] one I've come across delivers the same message in the same way. You have to be you,
[47:34.580 -> 47:38.240] you have to know yourself and who you are to be organic.
[47:38.240 -> 47:41.080] So tell us, you're on the touchline then and you know that somebody says to you
[47:41.080 -> 47:44.640] around two minutes and then we've got the lads in at half time, you've gone nil down
[47:44.640 -> 47:47.000] to self-answer and you've sensed that lack of
[47:47.000 -> 47:51.800] energy that's there. Tell us about how you then go through the process of right
[47:51.800 -> 47:58.080] this is going to be a critical moment in my managerial career to change in there.
[47:58.080 -> 48:01.920] Tell us how you prepare yourself for it and then what you actually do to
[48:01.920 -> 48:05.200] transfer that energy. Yeah, so in that moment,
[48:05.200 -> 48:08.120] I wasn't aware that it was a critical moment.
[48:08.120 -> 48:10.000] You're just in the moment, you're present.
[48:10.000 -> 48:14.400] And I'd done in the hundreds of team talks
[48:14.400 -> 48:16.080] up until that point.
[48:16.080 -> 48:18.240] And what I always liked as a player
[48:18.240 -> 48:20.280] was to get back in the changing room
[48:20.280 -> 48:23.720] and sort of have five or so minutes to sort myself out,
[48:23.720 -> 48:26.840] to go and get a strapping done or go to the toilet
[48:26.840 -> 48:29.960] and just have an argument with one of the players
[48:29.960 -> 48:31.680] and call someone, whatever it was,
[48:31.680 -> 48:35.240] I feel like players probably need that, they like that.
[48:35.240 -> 48:37.640] You let emotion out in that moment or you relax,
[48:37.640 -> 48:39.820] you deal with it in certain ways.
[48:39.820 -> 48:42.240] And I was very, very aware that,
[48:42.240 -> 48:44.360] okay, the lads have got five minutes.
[48:44.360 -> 48:46.840] And then sort of go into the coach's office
[48:46.840 -> 48:50.520] with the coaches, my trusted analysts at the time,
[48:50.520 -> 48:53.560] and sort of discuss, right, what do we need to do,
[48:53.560 -> 48:54.640] and what can I show them?
[48:54.640 -> 48:56.360] There was a couple of things I had in mind,
[48:56.360 -> 48:59.880] and we got some images on the laptop.
[48:59.880 -> 49:01.280] We're gonna go and show them that.
[49:01.280 -> 49:03.080] Then you go and address the lads,
[49:03.080 -> 49:06.640] and I think you can plan and prepare in those moments.
[49:06.640 -> 49:08.920] So when you go back into that coach's office, right,
[49:08.920 -> 49:10.120] they're gonna have a couple of minutes.
[49:10.120 -> 49:11.120] This is what we're gonna show.
[49:11.120 -> 49:13.880] This is what I wanna show, what I wanna get across.
[49:13.880 -> 49:18.180] But the second you're in front of those lads, it's instinct.
[49:18.180 -> 49:21.240] You have to go with it because if it's scripted,
[49:21.240 -> 49:22.560] it can become false.
[49:22.560 -> 49:26.040] You can lose the message, lose the passion.
[49:26.040 -> 49:29.440] For me, you have to go with what you feel in that moment
[49:29.440 -> 49:30.640] and not hold back.
[49:30.640 -> 49:32.800] So you win that first game.
[49:32.800 -> 49:33.760] What's your second one?
[49:33.760 -> 49:35.480] Yeah, cup final against City.
[49:36.880 -> 49:38.760] Yeah, see this I find fascinating.
[49:38.760 -> 49:42.600] So it's your second ever game
[49:42.600 -> 49:44.900] as a senior men's football manager.
[49:47.400 -> 49:52.320] And it's a cup final for the club you loved as a kid and there's only one reason why you're managing that team
[49:52.320 -> 49:56.760] because you fractured your skull on a football pitch a few years before. Was
[49:56.760 -> 50:01.480] there a moment where you considered that? No, honestly I just just wanted to win. I
[50:01.480 -> 50:06.920] was gutted that it was so soon because it's tough to influence
[50:06.920 -> 50:13.080] so much in five days. The only thing you can really influence is a bit of belief, a bit
[50:13.080 -> 50:18.320] of confidence and something like that. You can help from a structure and a tactical point
[50:18.320 -> 50:22.600] of view, but City were miles ahead of us. They were miles ahead of us. They were the
[50:22.600 -> 50:23.600] best team in the world.
[50:23.600 -> 50:25.080] Do you think you could have done anything to win that game?
[50:25.080 -> 50:27.040] When you look at the quality of that team
[50:27.040 -> 50:28.660] and the quality of your team,
[50:28.660 -> 50:30.520] is there anything you could have done to win it?
[50:30.520 -> 50:33.640] Yeah, of course, we conceded a set piece.
[50:33.640 -> 50:34.600] I look back and think,
[50:34.600 -> 50:36.840] could I have spent more time on set pieces?
[50:36.840 -> 50:39.680] Maybe, because they decide a lot of matches, they do.
[50:39.680 -> 50:41.920] Probably one in three goals in football
[50:41.920 -> 50:44.120] come from a set piece, so,
[50:44.120 -> 50:45.920] yeah, maybe I would have done it differently.
[50:45.920 -> 50:47.920] In that moment, it was the right thing for me
[50:47.920 -> 50:50.200] and I felt like the team were fully prepared.
[50:50.200 -> 50:52.800] So if I'm in that moment again in 10, 15 years,
[50:52.800 -> 50:56.360] and yeah, I would do things differently, but-
[50:56.360 -> 50:57.200] What else would you do?
[50:57.200 -> 50:59.240] Because I think learning from what you've been through
[50:59.240 -> 51:00.080] is vital.
[51:00.080 -> 51:01.880] So, you know, and it'll be interesting,
[51:01.880 -> 51:03.680] I guess, for Spurs fans listening to this,
[51:03.680 -> 51:06.720] like, what do you think you got wrong on that day?
[51:06.720 -> 51:07.600] And it's a harsh question
[51:07.600 -> 51:09.600] because it's your second match in charge.
[51:09.600 -> 51:11.720] And as you say, it came very quickly.
[51:11.720 -> 51:14.240] I actually think I got so much right,
[51:14.240 -> 51:15.280] which is crazy.
[51:15.280 -> 51:18.480] Like I look back and City were the best team in the world
[51:18.480 -> 51:19.320] at that point.
[51:19.320 -> 51:20.560] They were flying.
[51:20.560 -> 51:21.680] We grew into the game.
[51:21.680 -> 51:23.220] We suffered for 20, 30 minutes.
[51:23.220 -> 51:24.560] We rode our luck, which is normal,
[51:24.560 -> 51:25.840] which can happen in football, but we were growing the game, we suffered for 20, 30 minutes. We rode our luck, which is normal, which can happen in football,
[51:25.840 -> 51:29.960] but we were growing and everything that we thought
[51:29.960 -> 51:31.720] was gonna happen was happening.
[51:31.720 -> 51:34.280] We was getting a bit more control, a bit more possession,
[51:34.280 -> 51:36.840] and we felt like it was going how we wanted to.
[51:36.840 -> 51:38.720] But like I say, we conceded a set piece
[51:38.720 -> 51:41.600] and they were better than us on the day, absolutely.
[51:41.600 -> 51:44.720] So we can accept that.
[51:44.720 -> 51:46.400] I felt fully prepared for the game,
[51:46.400 -> 51:48.600] as fully prepared as I could have been.
[51:48.600 -> 51:51.520] When I reflected in the summer,
[51:51.520 -> 51:54.160] and I looked at the work and the progress we'd made
[51:54.160 -> 51:55.880] over sort of six, seven weeks,
[51:56.840 -> 51:58.560] I do wish it had come later on,
[51:58.560 -> 52:01.040] because I think, oh, maybe we could have influenced
[52:01.040 -> 52:02.520] the game even more,
[52:02.520 -> 52:05.900] because to change a team in six days is,
[52:06.820 -> 52:08.240] wow, it's tough.
[52:08.240 -> 52:09.080] It's tough.
[52:09.080 -> 52:11.640] We tried, we affected them in some ways,
[52:11.640 -> 52:14.920] and it was a positive spell, absolutely.
[52:14.920 -> 52:18.520] And for a man who's calling card is optimism,
[52:18.520 -> 52:20.780] self-belief, visualization,
[52:21.680 -> 52:24.080] did you visualize getting that job full-time,
[52:24.080 -> 52:25.540] and did you believe it was gonna come your way
[52:25.540 -> 52:27.200] because of your natural outlook?
[52:27.200 -> 52:28.440] No, I didn't.
[52:28.440 -> 52:31.200] Honestly, it was, it wasn't the right time,
[52:31.200 -> 52:32.240] it didn't feel right.
[52:32.240 -> 52:35.800] It felt right to help the club in that moment
[52:35.800 -> 52:37.280] and I felt like I was the right person
[52:37.280 -> 52:38.880] to take the team to the end of the season,
[52:38.880 -> 52:41.200] but I needed to grow more.
[52:41.200 -> 52:45.760] I felt like at 29, the first thing someone would say, you lose a game,
[52:45.760 -> 52:51.360] he's inexperienced, he's young. I don't want that excuse, it's just lazy and I knew that
[52:51.360 -> 52:55.520] that would happen. But I went back to the academy, it's not a normal thing to do, to
[52:56.240 -> 53:02.720] go and manage the first team for seven games and then six weeks later go and take a bunch
[53:02.720 -> 53:09.280] of scholars that are just coming through the building and just come out of school and had the same energy, the same desire to
[53:09.280 -> 53:14.680] help them. Did you? Absolutely. And how was the ego affected by that? My ego was left
[53:14.680 -> 53:19.200] outside the training ground the day I walked in back to the Academy because it
[53:19.200 -> 53:26.000] wasn't about me. I accepted and I knew that the right thing for me at that time was to go back to the academy.
[53:26.000 -> 53:28.000] How did you know that though?
[53:28.000 -> 53:31.000] It was a feeling and I didn't want to fight that feeling.
[53:31.000 -> 53:33.000] Of course I probably could have pushed and gone,
[53:33.000 -> 53:37.000] you know what, I might go and manage a league one club and try and get an interview somewhere
[53:37.000 -> 53:41.000] and it's opened me up to be a manager but no, I wanted to grow.
[53:41.000 -> 53:48.260] I felt like I needed to grow more, I needed more time on the grass, and it gave me a thirst, absolutely,
[53:48.260 -> 53:51.320] but at the same time, it made me think,
[53:51.320 -> 53:52.760] I wanna get better, I need to get better,
[53:52.760 -> 53:55.520] and the best place for me to do that was the academy,
[53:55.520 -> 54:00.240] and if I went back to that academy and had an ego,
[54:00.240 -> 54:03.320] the staff would have felt it, but more importantly,
[54:03.320 -> 54:04.480] the players would have smelt it,
[54:04.480 -> 54:07.160] and then I wouldn't have got the results that I felt
[54:07.160 -> 54:09.300] I did in in that time with the Academy
[54:09.920 -> 54:16.160] Amazing and then Antonio Conte comes in and it's probably worth mentioning for people that don't know this
[54:16.360 -> 54:22.760] But he actually visited you in hospital, didn't he? He did strange very strange thing. I
[54:23.760 -> 54:27.260] made my England debut against his Italy side
[54:27.260 -> 54:30.180] and my last ever game was against Chelsea
[54:30.180 -> 54:31.100] when he was the manager.
[54:31.100 -> 54:33.500] He'd come, he'd see me, he'd see my family.
[54:34.460 -> 54:36.860] Made a big, big impact on my family.
[54:36.860 -> 54:39.020] Obviously I was out of it,
[54:39.020 -> 54:42.820] but whenever I spoke to my wife, my parents about Antonio,
[54:42.820 -> 54:47.640] it was, what a man, what a guy. didn't have to do it, but he did.
[54:47.640 -> 54:50.320] Put on record as well that John Terry came,
[54:50.320 -> 54:53.200] the Chelsea captain, and William as well.
[54:54.480 -> 54:57.200] He was the captain, and in his mind,
[54:57.200 -> 54:58.560] it was the right thing to do.
[54:58.560 -> 55:00.800] It was a big impact on my family, those sort of things.
[55:00.800 -> 55:03.160] So teammates that came.
[55:03.160 -> 55:04.360] Like why particularly?
[55:04.360 -> 55:06.680] What was it that they valued?
[55:06.680 -> 55:10.440] One because it's John Terry and he's the Chelsea captain, the England captain, what he's achieved
[55:10.440 -> 55:18.600] in his career, but the humbleness to come and to pay respect and just to say like, I
[55:18.600 -> 55:25.000] hope he's okay. Simple, really simple. And William at the time,
[55:25.000 -> 55:26.280] I actually spoke to him the other day
[55:26.280 -> 55:27.120] when we played Fulham,
[55:27.120 -> 55:30.300] and I always wondered why he came.
[55:30.300 -> 55:31.560] I can understand John,
[55:31.560 -> 55:33.920] because when you're a captain,
[55:33.920 -> 55:36.600] you have a responsibility to represent the club
[55:36.600 -> 55:37.960] in a certain way.
[55:37.960 -> 55:40.020] And my captain at the time was Michael Dawson,
[55:40.020 -> 55:42.900] who is a top, top captain as well.
[55:42.900 -> 55:46.400] But William came and I spoke to him after the game.
[55:46.400 -> 55:49.200] It was the first time, I had this feeling for so long,
[55:49.200 -> 55:51.480] I just wanted to ask him, why did you come?
[55:51.480 -> 55:52.900] And I see him at the game the other day
[55:52.900 -> 55:55.760] and I went over, I shook his hand and I just said,
[55:55.760 -> 55:57.880] you come to my bed, I seen a picture.
[55:57.880 -> 56:00.200] Don't remember, but I see a picture.
[56:00.200 -> 56:01.700] And I said, why?
[56:01.700 -> 56:07.680] And he just said, I wanted to see you as okay. And I said, thank you. I just said,
[56:07.680 -> 56:14.160] thanks. Had a big impact on my family. And I look back now and think, do you know what,
[56:14.160 -> 56:21.120] what a top man. He made me feel a certain way about him without knowing him. I competed against
[56:21.120 -> 56:25.520] him. Tottenham, Chelsea, we competed, so much aggression, so much passion.
[56:26.080 -> 56:32.480] I don't know the person, I've never met the person, but that act of kindness, I guess,
[56:33.440 -> 56:38.880] it made me form an opinion. And I see him the other day and yeah, he didn't disappoint, he's
[56:39.440 -> 56:48.560] a proper guy. And so now you're first team coach, working with Antonio. I'm just so interested in where
[56:48.560 -> 56:54.440] you fit in the modern game of football, because there are so many conversations about aggression
[56:54.440 -> 56:58.840] and getting amongst them and create fear in the dressing room, you know, and we sit here
[56:58.840 -> 57:06.240] with you having a conversation about emotional intelligence and intuition and connection and presence.
[57:06.240 -> 57:11.840] I do feel the game is moving in a direction that allows you to express
[57:11.840 -> 57:16.800] yourself in this way. Yeah I do and I guess it's in a different format. The
[57:16.800 -> 57:21.800] game is developing, tactically teams are getting better, there's no doubt about
[57:21.800 -> 57:27.680] that, the game's getting quicker, they're becoming more athletic, more robust, more endurance,
[57:27.680 -> 57:31.540] but I still believe the fundamentals of football are
[57:31.540 -> 57:34.680] you have to run, you have to fight, you have to compete.
[57:34.680 -> 57:35.700] It's gonna be second balls
[57:35.700 -> 57:38.760] and all of these things will always be there.
[57:38.760 -> 57:40.000] They'll always be there.
[57:40.000 -> 57:43.800] The best teams we see are the best teams
[57:43.800 -> 57:48.440] that the basics, the brilliant basics, and you can affect that.
[57:48.440 -> 57:50.820] Some groups, some dressing rooms,
[57:50.820 -> 57:52.200] they might need tough love,
[57:52.200 -> 57:53.660] they might need to be shouted out,
[57:53.660 -> 57:54.900] they might need fear,
[57:54.900 -> 57:57.740] whereas other dressing rooms might need
[57:57.740 -> 57:59.900] a different way of connecting to them,
[57:59.900 -> 58:02.760] and that's probably what separates the best managers,
[58:02.760 -> 58:04.940] the best coaches, understanding that.
[58:04.940 -> 58:07.960] And I have been very lucky,
[58:07.960 -> 58:09.640] and I'm very aware that I'm very lucky.
[58:09.640 -> 58:13.880] I've been exposed to, as a player, some top, top managers,
[58:13.880 -> 58:18.880] but to be working so closely with one now is, yes, great.
[58:19.200 -> 58:20.280] Give us the biggest learnings then
[58:20.280 -> 58:23.120] from the life with Antonio Conte.
[58:23.120 -> 58:30.200] To be yourself, to be honest, to live in the moment, don't be scared to show emotion, to
[58:30.200 -> 58:36.160] show vulnerabilities, all of these types of things the players respect, but then also
[58:36.160 -> 58:42.000] to have an obsession to be the best, to work harder than anyone else, to have this desire
[58:42.000 -> 58:48.620] and transmit this desire that you want your team and you believe your team can can do anything. So when we go
[58:48.620 -> 58:55.500] through your whole career and as an aspiring coach the list of legendary
[58:55.500 -> 59:02.420] coaches that you've worked with or alongside really is is a who's who. What
[59:02.420 -> 59:06.000] I'd like you to do is tell us about who is the best coaches that you've had
[59:06.000 -> 59:08.000] and what was the one quality about
[59:08.000 -> 59:10.000] each of them that distinguished
[59:10.000 -> 59:12.000] them for you. I'm probably going to
[59:12.000 -> 59:14.000] cheat your question a little bit here but
[59:14.000 -> 59:16.000] Chris Ramsey was my youth
[59:16.000 -> 59:18.000] one of the youth team coaches and
[59:18.000 -> 59:20.000] he, I was physically very
[59:20.000 -> 59:22.000] immature for my age and I was quite
[59:22.000 -> 59:24.000] a late developer and the belief
[59:24.000 -> 59:26.600] that I would be a top player,
[59:26.600 -> 59:29.040] he always said that, it'll come.
[59:29.040 -> 59:30.840] And that just was ingrained in my mind,
[59:30.840 -> 59:33.040] and then you go through like Alex Inglethorpe,
[59:33.040 -> 59:36.620] he has these little golden nuggets, I guess,
[59:36.620 -> 59:39.320] about like being a goal scorer.
[59:39.320 -> 59:40.280] Ah, you're gonna be obsessed,
[59:40.280 -> 59:41.680] you're gonna score so many goals,
[59:41.680 -> 59:43.000] you're gonna play for Tottenham, you are.
[59:43.000 -> 59:44.040] You're gonna play for England,
[59:44.040 -> 59:44.880] you're gonna play for Tottenham,
[59:44.880 -> 59:46.440] and start believing that.
[59:46.440 -> 59:48.080] And all of these little things,
[59:48.080 -> 59:50.760] they made me feel a certain way.
[59:50.760 -> 59:54.160] So my Premier League debut under Maurizio,
[59:54.160 -> 59:57.840] played in the under 21s at the time on the Monday night,
[59:57.840 -> 59:59.400] away at Sunderland,
[59:59.400 -> 01:00:01.560] because I was coming back for a little niggle.
[01:00:01.560 -> 01:00:04.800] So at 70 minutes, the coach said,
[01:00:04.800 -> 01:00:05.680] do you wanna come off? There's
[01:00:05.680 -> 01:00:09.600] a game Wednesday. I said no, I want to play the 90 minutes. I didn't think I was going to play.
[01:00:10.240 -> 01:00:14.240] Played the 90 minutes. The next day I come in and I trained with the first team because I'd been
[01:00:14.240 -> 01:00:18.640] training with them. I had so much energy. I don't know why, it was just I had so much energy. And
[01:00:19.280 -> 01:00:24.560] the following day we played Nottingham Forest at home and we were one nil down against the
[01:00:24.560 -> 01:00:25.760] championship side with
[01:00:25.760 -> 01:00:31.040] half an hour to go. I remember he brung me on, he brung me and Harry Kane on and the crowd were a
[01:00:31.040 -> 01:00:36.480] little bit like, you heard this groan in the crowd, it was almost to say, what's going on here?
[01:00:36.480 -> 01:00:45.720] But I scored to make it 1-1, Harry scored one of the goals and we won 3-1. And I felt like, wow, he believes in me.
[01:00:46.560 -> 01:00:49.840] And I asked back now, like John McDermott
[01:00:49.840 -> 01:00:51.480] and the coaches at the time, they speak,
[01:00:51.480 -> 01:00:54.840] and he asked, how did Ryan do Monday night?
[01:00:54.840 -> 01:00:56.080] This was Tuesday.
[01:00:56.080 -> 01:00:58.600] And I said, yeah, his attitude was incredible.
[01:00:58.600 -> 01:01:00.280] Asked him to come off at 70, he said no,
[01:01:00.280 -> 01:01:02.160] I wanted to play for 90.
[01:01:02.160 -> 01:01:06.360] He valued that so much, that desire to play,
[01:01:06.360 -> 01:01:09.320] that, go back to that youthfulness of,
[01:01:09.320 -> 01:01:11.280] as a kid you wouldn't want to come off at 70 minutes,
[01:01:11.280 -> 01:01:13.840] why would you want to come off at 23 years old
[01:01:13.840 -> 01:01:15.160] playing a game of football?
[01:01:15.160 -> 01:01:17.960] Some do, a lot of people probably would have turned around
[01:01:17.960 -> 01:01:20.480] and gone, yeah, I'll come off, I'll protect myself,
[01:01:20.480 -> 01:01:22.720] but that was just me, that was just the way I was,
[01:01:22.720 -> 01:01:29.640] and that held a lot of weight with him and he started me against Arsenal that Saturday, North London derby away from
[01:01:29.640 -> 01:01:35.160] home in the Premier League and I was ready. I knew I was ready, I felt like it should
[01:01:35.160 -> 01:01:41.040] have been years ago but that moment came and there was no doubt that I was ready, the manager
[01:01:41.040 -> 01:01:46.080] believed in me and he was okay, well let's go and show what I'm all about and that was it.
[01:01:46.080 -> 01:01:51.520] So what distinguished Pochettino then for you, what is it, the one quality that stands
[01:01:51.520 -> 01:01:55.920] out that you think that's why he's a top top manager?
[01:01:55.920 -> 01:01:59.280] For me in that moment it was trust.
[01:01:59.280 -> 01:02:00.280] Trust and belief.
[01:02:00.280 -> 01:02:01.280] Lovely.
[01:02:01.280 -> 01:02:06.160] Trust and belief, quite simple I guess but the trust that he could play me in such a big game,
[01:02:06.160 -> 01:02:09.840] probably our biggest game of the season, but then the belief that I could do it.
[01:02:10.720 -> 01:02:16.800] And that gives me a sense of like, I can't let him down. Not in a fearful way, a way of,
[01:02:16.800 -> 01:02:20.960] I'll do anything. I'm going to run, I'm going to run, I'm going to run, I'm going to do anything
[01:02:21.520 -> 01:02:25.840] to prove that he was right. I trust that I'm good enough,
[01:02:25.840 -> 01:02:29.360] but I don't want to play a bad game
[01:02:29.360 -> 01:02:31.440] because it looks bad on him.
[01:02:31.440 -> 01:02:33.800] I remember asking Chris Casper,
[01:02:33.800 -> 01:02:36.080] who played at Manchester United,
[01:02:36.080 -> 01:02:38.960] what he felt that answer was about Alex Ferguson.
[01:02:38.960 -> 01:02:41.520] And his answer was exactly what you've just said.
[01:02:41.520 -> 01:02:44.120] He said, I just never wanted to let him down.
[01:02:44.120 -> 01:02:46.820] You don't have to shout at me. I just didn't want to let the man down which was
[01:02:46.820 -> 01:02:52.600] why I would excel. I think it's really telling of a characteristic. So what
[01:02:52.600 -> 01:02:55.880] about someone like Jose Mourinho then, I know that you came back and worked with him,
[01:02:55.880 -> 01:03:01.360] what was it that you saw in him? You can see why he won so many trophies with
[01:03:01.360 -> 01:03:06.040] the best clubs in the world, you can see how he would treat certain people
[01:03:06.040 -> 01:03:09.600] to get stuff out of them, to push them.
[01:03:09.600 -> 01:03:16.020] Unfortunately at Tottenham it didn't end well, it didn't work I guess because of how it ended
[01:03:16.020 -> 01:03:23.720] but you could always see and tell as someone why he'd won so much, he just had something
[01:03:23.720 -> 01:03:28.120] I guess Something to the layperson. I know you're watching from a distance, but
[01:03:28.840 -> 01:03:32.840] It's hard and energy and aura and arrogance, right?
[01:03:33.240 -> 01:03:34.680] Yeah
[01:03:34.680 -> 01:03:37.820] He came in as a winner and when you come in as a winner
[01:03:38.520 -> 01:03:43.160] That's there you command that respect straight away. And then you have to prove that
[01:03:43.840 -> 01:03:45.600] Why you're a winner.
[01:03:45.600 -> 01:03:48.960] Like I said, I wasn't sort of exposed to his team talk,
[01:03:48.960 -> 01:03:51.360] so I wasn't exposed to all of that.
[01:03:51.360 -> 01:03:54.400] But yeah, you could tell why with top players
[01:03:54.400 -> 01:03:55.480] and the best players in the world,
[01:03:55.480 -> 01:03:58.600] he was able to push them and win Premier Leagues
[01:03:58.600 -> 01:04:01.600] and win in Spain and Italy.
[01:04:01.600 -> 01:04:03.760] You could tell, you could tell.
[01:04:03.760 -> 01:04:09.040] So let's talk about the future then. You live so much in the present, yet you're someone
[01:04:09.040 -> 01:04:13.160] that visualises where they want to be. Like, are you ready to go again now, if a phone
[01:04:13.160 -> 01:04:15.560] call comes for Premier League management?
[01:04:15.560 -> 01:04:23.240] Yeah, I mean, I'm due my third child in 10 weeks. So, my visualisation is how are we
[01:04:23.240 -> 01:04:30.920] going to manage three kids? Are we going to have to mark Zonally? That's something to look forward to. But from a coach's point
[01:04:30.920 -> 01:04:36.720] of view, it's quite strange because I'm in such an amazing position now. I cannot take
[01:04:36.720 -> 01:04:42.520] my eye off the ball and it would be very disrespectful to start picturing and imagining other things.
[01:04:42.520 -> 01:04:45.080] And I don't think that would be right
[01:04:45.080 -> 01:04:48.200] because then maybe I wouldn't be as good in the moment
[01:04:48.200 -> 01:04:50.040] as what I am now.
[01:04:50.040 -> 01:04:53.200] I know that everything I'm doing is going to prepare me
[01:04:53.200 -> 01:04:55.320] whenever that time comes, whether it's five years,
[01:04:55.320 -> 01:04:57.920] 10 years, whatever, we don't know in football.
[01:04:57.920 -> 01:05:02.420] There's no plan, there's no magic pathway for anyone,
[01:05:02.420 -> 01:05:07.000] academy players, coaches, to get to where you want to.
[01:05:07.000 -> 01:05:08.320] I just love football.
[01:05:08.320 -> 01:05:11.040] I love being on the grass, I love delivering,
[01:05:11.040 -> 01:05:12.760] I love all of it, I love all of it.
[01:05:12.760 -> 01:05:15.680] And I know I'm gonna have experiences soon
[01:05:15.680 -> 01:05:17.960] that are gonna be great, that are gonna be challenging,
[01:05:17.960 -> 01:05:21.000] but the moment I'm in now is amazing.
[01:05:21.000 -> 01:05:24.320] It's a great position I'm in, I'm very grateful for it.
[01:05:24.320 -> 01:05:26.020] I know that I add value to the club
[01:05:26.020 -> 01:05:27.980] and the coaching team and the players.
[01:05:27.980 -> 01:05:30.220] And I want to enjoy this moment
[01:05:30.220 -> 01:05:31.900] because there's pressure in football.
[01:05:31.900 -> 01:05:33.060] There's always pressure.
[01:05:33.060 -> 01:05:34.820] There's pressure as a player,
[01:05:34.820 -> 01:05:36.660] there's pressure as a coach, as a manager.
[01:05:36.660 -> 01:05:39.860] I felt it the whole time and you still got to enjoy it.
[01:05:39.860 -> 01:05:41.860] You've got to have that love for what you're doing.
[01:05:41.860 -> 01:05:44.740] So finally, before our quickfire questions,
[01:05:44.740 -> 01:05:47.640] if I can rewind the clock to that football pitch
[01:05:47.640 -> 01:05:49.760] on that January day,
[01:05:49.760 -> 01:05:51.360] with everything that's happened to you since,
[01:05:51.360 -> 01:05:53.320] everything you've learned about yourself and your family
[01:05:53.320 -> 01:05:55.560] and human relationships and the experiences
[01:05:55.560 -> 01:05:58.600] that you've been given, sitting here at 31,
[01:05:58.600 -> 01:06:02.280] you know, really, with the career of a coach probably 41,
[01:06:02.280 -> 01:06:03.840] 10 years ahead of your time,
[01:06:03.840 -> 01:06:07.280] if I could stop you from going up for that header, would you go for it?
[01:06:07.280 -> 01:06:10.460] Absolutely. It was the right thing at the time. It's allowed me to be in this position
[01:06:10.460 -> 01:06:16.840] now that I'm in. I've achieved quite a lot after that. I'm a dad of two, I'm going to
[01:06:16.840 -> 01:06:21.920] be a dad of three, I'm married, I'm happy, I live a good personal private life, I've
[01:06:21.920 -> 01:06:25.840] got good people in my life, it's opened up different avenues
[01:06:25.840 -> 01:06:28.140] that I wouldn't have been exposed to
[01:06:28.140 -> 01:06:31.660] and exposed me to people that I really, really value now
[01:06:31.660 -> 01:06:34.720] that maybe I wouldn't have come across them.
[01:06:34.720 -> 01:06:36.000] I mean, I'm working with someone now
[01:06:36.000 -> 01:06:38.840] and a coaching team that have impacted me
[01:06:38.840 -> 01:06:43.840] in such a good way that, no, I don't regret anything.
[01:06:43.880 -> 01:06:45.800] I wouldn't change anything, I wouldn't change
[01:06:45.800 -> 01:06:46.800] a thing.
[01:06:46.800 -> 01:06:52.000] The only things that I would change would be in the future because I can change that,
[01:06:52.000 -> 01:06:56.640] I can be aware that I can maybe do things differently, I can react differently to certain
[01:06:56.640 -> 01:07:03.160] things but everything in the past has shaped me to what I am and who I am today.
[01:07:03.160 -> 01:07:08.000] So I'm not going to waste any energy on things that have happened in the past.
[01:07:08.000 -> 01:07:15.660] I remember the good things learn from the things that weren't so good and the tough moments and carry on growing I guess.
[01:07:15.560 -> 01:07:23.160] What a story what a story right quick five questions your three non negotiables that you and the people around you should buy into.
[01:07:23.120 -> 01:07:30.380] non-negotiables that you and the people around you should buy into? Respect would be one, a good energy and then yeah a burning desire to improve.
[01:07:30.380 -> 01:07:35.320] So whether that's a footballer, whether that's as a person, I want to be around people
[01:07:35.320 -> 01:07:39.740] that want to get better and want to grow. If you could go back to one moment of
[01:07:39.740 -> 01:07:49.000] your life what would it be and why? My goal against Nottingham Forest because it was all I'd ever dreamed of to score at White Hart Lane.
[01:07:49.000 -> 01:07:52.000] Every birthday cake I blew those candles out and
[01:07:52.000 -> 01:07:54.000] wished that I'd score at White Hart Lane.
[01:07:54.000 -> 01:07:59.000] So that moment was just magic.
[01:07:59.000 -> 01:08:03.000] What advice would you give to a young Ryan just starting out?
[01:08:03.000 -> 01:08:05.360] Keep believing, keep dreaming, keep going.
[01:08:05.360 -> 01:08:11.680] Yeah quite simple but believe in yourself and yeah just go for it.
[01:08:11.680 -> 01:08:16.980] Lovely. How important is legacy to you? Yeah the most important legacy for me is
[01:08:16.980 -> 01:08:24.240] the legacy that I leave with my family, my kids, their kids because you can affect
[01:08:24.240 -> 01:08:26.560] so many people in this world but I can really affect my kids and I love my kids, their kids, because you can affect so many people in this world but I can really
[01:08:26.560 -> 01:08:32.600] affect my kids and I love my kids to bits, my wife, that's the legacy I want to leave.
[01:08:32.600 -> 01:08:36.000] We have a high performance book club, it's got thousands of members, they talk about
[01:08:36.000 -> 01:08:40.120] books, they share books, they get together, if you could throw a book into the mix for
[01:08:40.120 -> 01:08:42.080] them to consider what would you chuck in there?
[01:08:42.080 -> 01:08:46.800] I tried to think of a little bit of a wild card one, because I do like reading, and there's
[01:08:46.800 -> 01:08:50.400] a book that I read sort of four or five years ago called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior.
[01:08:50.400 -> 01:08:53.480] It's quite powerful, it's quite powerful, yeah.
[01:08:53.480 -> 01:08:54.940] Sum it up in a sentence.
[01:08:54.940 -> 01:08:59.680] The way you look at life, the approach, the mental approach, the things you're grateful
[01:08:59.680 -> 01:09:05.000] for, the way you see your life, I guess.
[01:09:06.480 -> 01:09:09.000] That would be the, in a nutshell, yeah.
[01:09:10.120 -> 01:09:12.800] And again, for our high performance listeners,
[01:09:12.800 -> 01:09:15.940] and the final question, your one golden rule, really,
[01:09:15.940 -> 01:09:17.880] for people to live their own high performance life,
[01:09:17.880 -> 01:09:20.560] the final message you'd like to leave people with.
[01:09:20.560 -> 01:09:22.760] Yeah, a desire, a desire to improve
[01:09:22.760 -> 01:09:25.760] in every aspect of what you are, in
[01:09:25.760 -> 01:09:31.520] every aspect of your life. Want to get better and work at it. Brilliant, you know
[01:09:31.520 -> 01:09:37.600] what, I've loved that long conversation actually. It's been amazing to sit and
[01:09:37.600 -> 01:09:42.360] talk in the way that we have and I think you've definitely got something unique
[01:09:42.360 -> 01:09:45.080] and special, like your ability to connect and
[01:09:45.080 -> 01:09:49.840] share how you're feeling. It's hard to put your finger on it right but I can
[01:09:49.840 -> 01:09:54.480] see how you can walk into a room of teenagers and also a room of chiseled
[01:09:54.480 -> 01:10:00.200] hardened professionals and get them to follow your way because you connect and
[01:10:00.200 -> 01:10:03.760] that is a rare skill so I can't wait to see what happens next mate.
[01:10:03.760 -> 01:10:07.600] Thank you and thanks for having me on as well. I've listened to this podcast so
[01:10:07.600 -> 01:10:12.480] many times and to be on it, to have something there that's there for my
[01:10:12.480 -> 01:10:17.840] family, for people close to me, it's... I'm very very grateful. Top man.
[01:10:17.840 -> 01:10:21.240] Privileges ours, thank you.
[01:10:22.880 -> 01:10:29.600] Damien, Jahake, what did you think? Loved it, really humbling really to hear somebody
[01:10:29.600 -> 01:10:34.280] that's been on that pathway you know what's that start from Michael Calvin's
[01:10:34.280 -> 01:10:39.000] book No Hunger in Paradise that anyone that comes from an academy to play in a
[01:10:39.000 -> 01:10:44.520] Premier League club is in one of 0.01% and so to hear the story of
[01:10:44.520 -> 01:10:47.400] somebody that's gone on that journey, been amongst that
[01:10:47.400 -> 01:10:51.000] rare group of people and have it so cruelly snatched away
[01:10:51.000 -> 01:10:54.120] and then process it and come up with something
[01:10:54.120 -> 01:10:57.600] even more exciting for the second chapter is stunning.
[01:10:57.600 -> 01:11:00.520] I also think that there is a whole lesson here
[01:11:00.520 -> 01:11:02.280] about the mindset that you live with.
[01:11:02.280 -> 01:11:04.720] You know, it's no surprise that Ryan's book
[01:11:04.720 -> 01:11:07.680] or one of the books that he spoke about at the end of our conversation was the secret
[01:11:07.680 -> 01:11:07.880] You know
[01:11:07.880 -> 01:11:14.000] The secret is all about the secrets are living an optimistic life full of belief that great things are going to happen
[01:11:14.200 -> 01:11:17.760] The people that you attract the energy you put out into the world
[01:11:18.480 -> 01:11:22.000] the way that you operate determines the life that you live and
[01:11:22.520 -> 01:11:24.480] You know, he is the epitome of that
[01:11:24.480 -> 01:11:27.920] You know you look at the low that he had on him in many ways you know I think some
[01:11:27.920 -> 01:11:30.360] people would listen to this and go well yes he had a low but look at the great
[01:11:30.360 -> 01:11:34.040] stuff he had before yeah right it's only a true low if you've fallen from a great
[01:11:34.040 -> 01:11:39.160] height and the point is he got to the very summit he played Premier League
[01:11:39.160 -> 01:11:43.120] football he had an England cap but before he even got close to fulfilling
[01:11:43.120 -> 01:11:48.160] that talent something totally out of his control removed it. So actually the fact that he did so well
[01:11:48.160 -> 01:11:53.160] makes it harder. So how do you come back from that? Well it's all about mindset
[01:11:53.160 -> 01:12:02.000] and you can't listen to that and not be compelled to follow his example of being
[01:12:02.000 -> 01:12:04.280] optimistic, believing great things are going to happen.
[01:12:04.280 -> 01:12:07.180] Yeah, I think it's really the stu point
[01:12:07.180 -> 01:12:13.960] You're making Jake that what's the worst that can happen by being optimistic that you either don't achieve what you wanted
[01:12:13.960 -> 01:12:19.640] But you're a bit further on in terms of your progress or success does happen and it just reinforces it
[01:12:19.640 -> 01:12:23.100] I think what I would take from it is what he spoke about that
[01:12:27.080 -> 01:12:27.240] I think what I would take from it is what he spoke about that having no regret afterwards and you can only have no regrets when
[01:12:30.760 -> 01:12:35.140] You've given everything to the process in the first place It reminded me of when Matthew McConaughey told us of leave no crumbs behind
[01:12:35.720 -> 01:12:41.560] So if you don't leave any crumbs on the table because you've actually devoured the experience to its fullest
[01:12:41.960 -> 01:12:45.480] If it works out or not, you can honestly come away and say,
[01:12:45.480 -> 01:12:48.160] well, I can't regret it because I did the best I could.
[01:12:48.160 -> 01:12:51.760] Yeah. I also think there's something special about him. You know, sometimes you meet people
[01:12:51.760 -> 01:12:57.120] have really big ambitions and you leave thinking, I'm not sure that's for you. You know what
[01:12:57.120 -> 01:13:02.040] I mean? You hear Ryan talk about where he's at and where he wants to go. And like, I got
[01:13:02.040 -> 01:13:08.520] a real sense, you know, there were just people you spend time with where you think I'd love to spend another couple of hours with you. Like there's something
[01:13:08.520 -> 01:13:13.160] special about you. There's a real connection. There's a, there's a natural understanding.
[01:13:13.160 -> 01:13:19.320] You can see how he inspired the dressing room of experienced pros, but at the same time,
[01:13:19.320 -> 01:13:23.720] every single week, you know, before that was able to work with 15, 16, 17 year old lads
[01:13:23.720 -> 01:13:26.800] and inspire them as well. He got something hasn't he? Definitely and
[01:13:27.680 -> 01:13:32.960] It was a great example again, and it often buys me this when I meet people that don't have to be loud
[01:13:32.960 -> 01:13:35.160] I don't have to be sort of
[01:13:36.160 -> 01:13:40.400] Provocative or don't have to be sort of controversial in what they say you can be quiet
[01:13:40.400 -> 01:13:50.400] You can be contemplative and you can be considered in your responses and still lead really powerfully and I think that's what's gonna define him
[01:13:50.400 -> 01:13:54.640] when he does eventually go into senior management. And I love the way he talks I
[01:13:54.640 -> 01:13:58.360] mean you know we talk about footballers this world all about opinions and all
[01:13:58.360 -> 01:14:02.040] about aggression and all about you know saying daft things to get clicks and
[01:14:02.040 -> 01:14:07.500] social media impact and all that and then you have a guy heavily involved in the game right there talking in the way that
[01:14:07.500 -> 01:14:11.280] he does like that's what football needs to be about that's how we need to talk
[01:14:11.280 -> 01:14:14.400] about the game of football yeah not the way that it happens too often.
[01:14:14.400 -> 01:14:19.300] Yeah well you've got a son as I do and I think the ultimate compliment you can
[01:14:19.300 -> 01:14:26.000] pay a coach like Ryan is what he said that his parents hand their son over to a coach
[01:14:26.000 -> 01:14:31.480] with the confidence that the messages are going to be complimentary to what we
[01:14:31.480 -> 01:14:35.780] try to give as parents and I think that's the greatest compliment I'd pay
[01:14:35.780 -> 01:14:39.720] him. Top man. Thanks mate.
[01:14:39.720 -> 01:14:43.360] Okay it's the part of the show where we hand over the reins to one of the
[01:14:43.360 -> 01:14:48.960] listeners to high performance and we had a lovely message from Scott who told us that he started listening to the podcast
[01:14:48.960 -> 01:14:52.320] mid to late 2020, a few months after COVID hit.
[01:14:52.320 -> 01:14:56.720] And he really wants to talk to us about what High Performance did for him
[01:14:56.720 -> 01:15:00.640] during what was an incredibly scary time for so many business owners around the UK.
[01:15:00.640 -> 01:15:03.040] So Scott, first of all, welcome to High Performance.
[01:15:03.040 -> 01:15:04.640] For me, yeah, glad to be here.
[01:15:04.640 -> 01:15:06.240] So tell us about your business, Scott. It
[01:15:06.240 -> 01:15:07.240] sounds fascinating.
[01:15:07.240 -> 01:15:13.680] Scott Galloway Yeah, so I started Upshur Heating in 2016.
[01:15:13.680 -> 01:15:20.800] And basically we went so quickly and things went well, we started just me and the van
[01:15:20.800 -> 01:15:28.600] and then all of a sudden we went to another person on board who just called me up out of the blue. Then my mum into the business and slowly but steadily
[01:15:28.600 -> 01:15:35.800] we grew up to 14, well it'll be 14 as of Wednesday, this Wednesday. So really successful at the
[01:15:35.800 -> 01:15:42.600] moment and yeah, it's I think COVID itself, I just want to touch on that where it really,
[01:15:42.600 -> 01:15:46.480] for a lot of people of course, it was a horrendous time and worry
[01:15:46.480 -> 01:15:50.480] for me of course. But as soon as I got over the initial worry and the 100 jobs that came
[01:15:50.480 -> 01:15:56.960] out straight out of our diary, we essentially, I saw that as an opportunity as opposed to
[01:15:56.960 -> 01:16:03.600] a crisis or something bad. It was the fact that I could put in systems and processes
[01:16:03.600 -> 01:16:08.520] into the business. So that's now, without me able to do that I don't think I'd be in
[01:16:08.520 -> 01:16:13.040] a position that we are as a business today. So big thing for me is and what
[01:16:13.040 -> 01:16:17.120] I've learned from your podcast is to change things around in terms of how you
[01:16:17.120 -> 01:16:22.840] look at it. So it's not that I have to do this, it's the fact that I get to do this
[01:16:22.840 -> 01:16:27.680] and it's it's flipping that ground to something positive from a negative situation.
[01:16:28.320 -> 01:16:31.480] And the little nuggets I get from you guys as well from the various guests you've
[01:16:31.480 -> 01:16:34.000] had on, uh, are unbelievable. And to be fair,
[01:16:34.000 -> 01:16:37.560] I don't think I'd be in a position now and as happy as I am now, uh,
[01:16:37.560 -> 01:16:40.440] without these little tools that I've learned along the way from you guys.
[01:16:40.680 -> 01:16:43.040] Take us into some of the episodes, Scott, then, and, uh,
[01:16:43.040 -> 01:16:49.360] and the moments that kind of made you go, Oh, wow. Okay. There's one, There's one uh Joe Malone uh that was one of the first ones I believe I listened to
[01:16:49.360 -> 01:16:54.480] and I've listened to a lot of them, if not all of them um and it was about I can't remember the exact
[01:16:54.480 -> 01:17:00.240] quote but it's about you have to lose sight of the shore to find new lands or something along those
[01:17:00.240 -> 01:17:08.760] lines there was a there was a saying and and essentially that's to let go of what you're comfortable with and take some risks.
[01:17:08.760 -> 01:17:10.080] So that was a big thing for me.
[01:17:10.080 -> 01:17:14.000] And also, Jodie Wilkinson, who I know gets talked about
[01:17:14.000 -> 01:17:16.640] a lot with washing the dishes, of course,
[01:17:16.640 -> 01:17:21.400] that goes back to the, I get to do the washing up,
[01:17:21.400 -> 01:17:23.200] not I have to, so I get to wash up
[01:17:23.200 -> 01:17:29.440] because I'm living in a house with my partner and my child and my dog, so I get to do the washing up, not I have to, so I get to wash up because I'm living in a house with my partner and my child and my dog, so I get to do it. And the other one, sort of more
[01:17:29.440 -> 01:17:34.320] work related, so we bought another plumbing company. It came with a lovely lady in the
[01:17:34.320 -> 01:17:40.400] office and a couple of engineers. And this lady I knew since I was young, and I thought she was a
[01:17:40.400 -> 01:17:45.360] bit negative in terms of she's kind of, it's a great idea and she's going,
[01:17:51.520 -> 01:17:57.520] Scott, are you sure, are you sure? And so I saw that as negative but I've got a friend called Jeeve and I hope you won't mind him mentioning his name but he said she's not negative, she's protective
[01:17:58.480 -> 01:18:02.320] and I was like, it's a light bulb moment, I was like yes she is, she's looking after my best
[01:18:02.320 -> 01:18:05.300] interest, she's not being negative, she's actually after my best interest. She's not being negative. She's, she's actually
[01:18:05.300 -> 01:18:09.000] helping, but in her own way, it's all about changing mindset,
[01:18:09.020 -> 01:18:09.480] I think.
[01:18:09.900 -> 01:18:12.500] And you know what, the single biggest and best thing that you
[01:18:12.500 -> 01:18:15.640] can do is mention our podcast to other people. You know, we don't
[01:18:15.640 -> 01:18:18.160] advertise, we're not on terrestrial telly on a Friday
[01:18:18.160 -> 01:18:21.080] night at 7pm, you know, people have to come and find us. So the
[01:18:21.080 -> 01:18:24.240] fact you're helping with that is amazing. And thank you so, so
[01:18:24.240 -> 01:18:24.600] much.
[01:18:25.200 -> 01:18:29.120] Thank you. No, no, it's been a pleasure. It really has.
[01:18:29.120 -> 01:18:32.560] Well, there we go. That's, that's the end of today's episode. Listen, I hope you as
[01:18:32.560 -> 01:18:36.440] always love hearing from a high performance listener. I certainly know that you would
[01:18:36.440 -> 01:18:41.640] have enjoyed hearing the story that Ryan shared with us today. The job for you now is just
[01:18:41.640 -> 01:18:46.880] to get closer to your own version of high performance. Don't forget, you can also watch these episodes on YouTube.
[01:18:46.880 -> 01:18:50.800] It was a really moving conversation with Ryan, and I sometimes think that watching them,
[01:18:50.800 -> 01:18:53.960] you can actually really see the emotion in their eyes.
[01:18:53.960 -> 01:18:56.000] If you want to do that, just check us out on YouTube.
[01:18:56.000 -> 01:18:59.440] And you can also get tickets right now for the high performance tour.
[01:18:59.440 -> 01:19:02.160] We're coming around the UK over the next few months.
[01:19:02.160 -> 01:19:05.840] Just type high performance tour into your search engine and you
[01:19:05.840 -> 01:19:11.440] can find us there. Listen, as always, big thanks goes to you for growing, for sharing this podcast
[01:19:11.440 -> 01:19:15.600] among your community. Please continue to spread the learnings you're taking, just sticking it on
[01:19:15.600 -> 01:19:20.080] Instagram, mentioning it on Twitter, passing it to a friend, talking about it in the pub.
[01:19:20.640 -> 01:19:25.080] It just makes such a difference to us. Remember, there is no secret.
[01:19:25.080 -> 01:19:26.200] It is all there for you.
[01:19:26.200 -> 01:19:28.800] So please, chase world-class basics.
[01:19:28.800 -> 01:19:30.580] Don't get high on your own supply.
[01:19:30.580 -> 01:19:34.340] Remain humble, curious, and empathetic.
[01:19:34.340 -> 01:20:04.880] And we'll see you very soon. Acast powers the world's best podcasts.
[01:20:04.880 -> 01:20:06.500] Here's the show that we recommend.
[01:20:09.300 -> 01:20:12.960] Hi, my name is Kelly Rizzo, and this is Comfort Food.
[01:20:12.960 -> 01:20:14.000] Now, some of you may know me
[01:20:14.000 -> 01:20:16.580] because I've always loved sharing my passion
[01:20:16.580 -> 01:20:18.980] for food, travel, and music with people,
[01:20:18.980 -> 01:20:21.060] but in January of 2022,
[01:20:21.060 -> 01:20:24.240] my entire world came screeching to a halt.
[01:20:24.240 -> 01:20:26.680] I lost my husband, Bob Saget.
[01:20:26.680 -> 01:20:30.240] And although it was the worst time of my entire life,
[01:20:30.240 -> 01:20:32.400] strangely enough, the conversations that I was having
[01:20:32.400 -> 01:20:35.160] with my friends and family were some of the best.
[01:20:35.160 -> 01:20:37.460] Most of the time, these conversations were being had
[01:20:37.460 -> 01:20:39.200] over some great food.
[01:20:39.200 -> 01:20:41.180] I'll sit down with old and new friends
[01:20:41.180 -> 01:20:43.900] and talk about death, loss, or just life
[01:20:43.900 -> 01:20:45.200] and the food that got us through it.
[01:20:45.200 -> 01:20:50.160] Comfort Food is brought to you by Wheelhouse DNA and Acast. New episodes will be released
[01:20:50.160 -> 01:20:53.520] every Sunday. Check them out wherever you like to listen. Hope to see you there.
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