E18 - Phil Neville: Exploring the boundaries of your comfort zone

Phil Neville was a serial winner in his illustrious 18 year career as a footballer. Phil won 59 caps for England and was a regular with Manchester United in the 1998-99 treble-winning campaign.

In total, he won six Premier League titles, three FA Cups and the UEFA Champions League before joining Everton, where he was club captain and played 303 times.

Phil was appointed England Women’s head coach in January 2018 winning the SheBelieves Cup title in 2019 and reaching the last four of the World Cup. Phil is the current coach for Inter Miami.

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**High Performance: The Phil Neville Story**

In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, host Jake Humphrey and Professor Damian Hughes delve into the world of football and leadership with special guest Phil Neville, a former player, coach, and manager with an illustrious career.

**Key Insights:**

1. **High-Performance Mindset:** Phil Neville defines high performance as doing the right thing every minute of every day, emphasizing consistency and perfection in all aspects of life.

2. **Simplicity and Values:** Neville attributes his success to the simplicity and values instilled in him by his parents and reinforced at Manchester United. Hard work, politeness, and attention to detail were central to his upbringing and coaching philosophy.

3. **Mental Toughness and Sacrifice:** Neville stresses the importance of mental toughness and sacrifice, recalling how he and his brother Gary would train extra and endure criticism to achieve their goals. He emphasizes the need to go beyond what is expected and make sacrifices to succeed.

4. **Extra Effort:** Neville shares anecdotes about his early days at Manchester United, where he and his brother would sneak bowls of cereal onto the train to London to ensure they had enough carbohydrates before games. He highlights the importance of going the extra mile and doing more than what is required.

5. **Individual Responsibility:** Neville believes that true high performance comes from individual responsibility and motivation. He encourages young people to set clear goals, work hard, and stay focused on their aspirations, even when faced with challenges or distractions.

6. **Culture Change at Everton:** Neville discusses his experience at Everton, where he encountered a team lacking the same mentality and work ethic as Manchester United. He emphasizes the need to change the culture of a team by bringing in players and staff who align with the desired values and work ethic.

7. **Eric Cantona's Influence:** Neville acknowledges the impact of Eric Cantona's arrival at Manchester United, describing him as a role model who demonstrated the work ethic and dedication required of top players. He highlights Cantona's focus on simple drills and repetition as key factors in his success.

8. **Tiny Steps to Success:** Neville emphasizes the importance of taking small, consistent steps towards achieving long-term goals. He believes that by focusing on the little things and doing them right, individuals can eventually reach their desired destination.

# Summary of the Podcast Episode

## Introduction

- Phil Neville, a former Manchester United player and current coach of Inter Miami, shares his insights on high performance, leadership, and values in football.

## Key Insights

### 1. The Importance of Process:

- Phil emphasizes the significance of focusing on the process rather than solely on the outcome.
- He highlights the example of Cristiano Ronaldo's dedication to training and self-improvement as a testament to this principle.
- Phil believes that anyone can achieve a high-performance lifestyle by breaking down their goals into smaller, manageable steps and consistently working towards them.

### 2. Adaptability and Flexibility:

- Phil stresses the need for adaptability and flexibility in the pursuit of high performance.
- He shares his own experiences of adapting to different playing styles, team cultures, and coaching philosophies throughout his career.
- Phil emphasizes the importance of education and open-mindedness in embracing change and learning from new experiences.

### 3. Emotional Intelligence and Connection:

- Phil highlights the importance of emotional intelligence and the ability to connect with players as a coach.
- He believes that understanding the individual needs, backgrounds, and motivations of players is crucial for effective leadership.
- Phil shares examples from his time as England Women's head coach, where he prioritized creating a supportive and inclusive environment for his players.

### 4. The Changing Landscape of Football Management:

- Phil reflects on the evolution of football management over the years, emphasizing the growing importance of emotional intelligence and people skills.
- He contrasts the single-minded focus on winning and ruthlessness that was prevalent during his playing days with the more holistic approach that is required in modern football.
- Phil shares an emotional moment from his time as England Women's head coach, where he connected with players who had experienced personal tragedies and helped them find inspiration on the field.

### 5. The Influence of Sir Alex Ferguson:

- Phil discusses the profound impact of Sir Alex Ferguson on his career and leadership style.
- He recalls Ferguson's exceptional emotional intelligence and ability to connect with players and their families.
- Phil emphasizes Ferguson's emphasis on values, discipline, and hard work as key factors in Manchester United's success during his tenure.

### 6. Balancing Parental and Coaching Roles:

- Phil shares his unique perspective as a father whose son plays for Manchester United at the youth level.
- He explains his decision to distance himself from his son's football career to avoid putting undue pressure on him.
- Phil highlights the importance of allowing his son to forge his own path and develop his own identity as a player.

### 7. Universality of Values:

- Phil reflects on the universality of values across different cultures and teams in football.
- He emphasizes the importance of establishing strong cultural values and holding everyone accountable to those values.
- Phil believes that simplicity and a focus on core values are key to creating a successful and cohesive team.

### 8. Relationship with Failure:

- Phil discusses his approach to failure and how he uses it as a motivational tool.
- He explains the concept of premortems, where he considers the potential consequences of failure before an event and develops strategies to cope with them.
- Phil believes that this approach helps him stay focused on the task at hand and move on quickly from setbacks.

## Conclusion

- Phil Neville's insights on high performance, leadership, and values provide valuable lessons for athletes, coaches, and leaders in all fields.
- His emphasis on process, adaptability, emotional intelligence, and the importance of values resonates with the challenges and opportunities of modern-day leadership.
- Phil's experiences and perspectives offer a unique and thought-provoking examination of the ever-evolving world of football management.

# **High Performance Podcast: Phil Neville**

## **Summary**

Phil Neville, a former professional footballer and manager, shares his insights on achieving success through hard work, enjoyment, and gratitude. He emphasizes the importance of setting clear goals, focusing on the process, and celebrating small wins along the way. Neville also discusses the challenges of being a female athlete in a male-dominated industry and the importance of promoting gender equality in sports.

## **Key Points**

* **Set Clear Goals:** Neville stresses the importance of setting clear and achievable goals, both for individuals and teams. These goals should be specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time-bound (SMART).

* **Focus on the Process:** Neville believes that the key to achieving success is to focus on the process rather than the outcome. By breaking down goals into smaller, more manageable steps, individuals and teams can stay motivated and make progress towards their ultimate objectives.

* **Celebrate Small Wins:** Neville emphasizes the importance of celebrating small wins along the way to achieving a goal. This helps to keep individuals and teams motivated and focused on the process.

* **Embrace Hard Work:** Neville believes that hard work is essential for success. He encourages individuals and teams to push themselves beyond their limits and to never give up on their goals.

* **Enjoy the Journey:** Neville believes that it is important to enjoy the journey to success, rather than just focusing on the outcome. By savoring the process and appreciating the small wins, individuals and teams can make the journey more enjoyable and fulfilling.

* **Promote Gender Equality in Sports:** Neville is a strong advocate for gender equality in sports. He believes that women and girls should have the same opportunities as men and boys to participate in sports and achieve success.

## **Memorable Quotes**

* "The biggest learning was how to treat people that wasn't part of your inner circle, how to make them feel, how to make them part of your group, and actually to be honest with people." - Phil Neville

* "I think you've got to commit. I think you've got to commit to doing the absolute best you can every single minute of every day." - Phil Neville

* "I think it's important to celebrate the small wins along the way. It's important to recognize when you've achieved something, no matter how small." - Phil Neville

## **Overall Message**

Phil Neville's message is one of hard work, perseverance, and gratitude. He believes that success is achievable for anyone who is willing to put in the effort and focus on the process. He also emphasizes the importance of promoting gender equality in sports and creating opportunities for women and girls to participate and succeed.

# Phil Neville: The High-Performance Mindset of a Serial Winner

In this captivating episode of the High-Performance Podcast, Damien welcomes Phil Neville, a true legend in the world of football. With an illustrious 18-year career as a player and a successful stint as England Women's head coach, Neville shares his insights on building a high-performance mindset and achieving remarkable success.

## From Player to Coach: A Journey of Excellence

Phil Neville's journey in football began as a player, where he achieved remarkable feats. He earned 59 caps for England, played a pivotal role in Manchester United's historic treble-winning campaign of 1998-99, and accumulated an impressive collection of trophies, including six Premier League titles, three FA Cups, and the UEFA Champions League.

After his glittering playing career, Neville transitioned into coaching, where he continued to demonstrate his leadership and tactical prowess. He was appointed as England Women's head coach in 2018, guiding the team to victory in the SheBelieves Cup in 2019 and reaching the semi-finals of the FIFA Women's World Cup.

## The Cornerstones of High Performance

Throughout the podcast, Neville emphasizes the fundamental principles that underpin high performance in sports and beyond. He stresses the importance of setting clear goals, maintaining unwavering focus, and fostering a culture of accountability and resilience.

1. **Goal Setting and Unwavering Focus:** Neville believes that setting ambitious yet achievable goals is crucial for driving motivation and achieving success. He advocates for establishing specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and time-bound (SMART) goals to provide a clear roadmap for progress.

2. **Accountability and Resilience:** Neville emphasizes the significance of accountability and resilience in building a high-performance team. He encourages individuals to take ownership of their actions, learn from mistakes, and persevere in the face of adversity. He believes that fostering a culture of accountability and resilience creates a foundation for continuous improvement and success.

3. **Teamwork and Collaboration:** Neville highlights the power of teamwork and collaboration in achieving high performance. He stresses the importance of building a cohesive team with diverse skills and perspectives, where individuals work together seamlessly towards a common goal. He believes that fostering a supportive and collaborative environment enables teams to overcome challenges and achieve extraordinary results.

## Key Takeaways and Inspirational Quotes

* "Success is not about talent alone. It's about hard work, dedication, and a relentless pursuit of improvement." - Phil Neville

* "Setbacks are inevitable in any pursuit of excellence. It's how you respond to those setbacks that define your character and determine your ultimate success." - Phil Neville

* "Surround yourself with people who believe in you, support you, and challenge you to be the best version of yourself." - Phil Neville

In conclusion, Phil Neville's appearance on the High-Performance Podcast offers valuable insights into the mindset and strategies that have fueled his remarkable success as a player and coach. His emphasis on goal setting, accountability, resilience, teamwork, and collaboration provides a blueprint for aspiring athletes, coaches, and leaders seeking to achieve high performance in their respective fields.

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[00:46.800 -> 00:49.320] You know, you look at the best and biggest athletes,
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[01:03.360 -> 01:05.120] it's the only thing I hold the team accountable for. Anything outside of that is my fault, a ddewis y gwerthoedd newydd ar ddechrau'r seswn hon, dyna'r unig peth rydw i'n ei chael ar y tîm.
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[01:19.000 -> 01:20.000] Ac mae hynny'n gwneud y coaching yn haws hefyd,
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[01:22.000 -> 01:24.000] ac yn dweud, dydyn ni ddim yn dweud hynny,
[01:24.000 -> 01:25.960] rydyn ni'n cael y chartr, rydyn ni'n cael y gwerthoedd, ac rydyn ni'n cael ein gael ar eich hunain as well because you don't have to get them into line. So, well, you forget, didn't tell me that you get the charter out, you get the values
[01:25.960 -> 01:33.400] out and you hold yourself accountable for the values that you want to instill.
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[04:16.580 -> 04:23.820] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey you're listening to high performance the podcast that delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes visionaries
[04:23.820 -> 04:24.540] That delves into the minds of some of the most successful athletes visionaries
[04:30.980 -> 04:31.180] Entrepreneurs and artists on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to their success and look you can't do a job like this alone
[04:36.660 -> 04:36.860] Thankfully Damien Hughes professor lecturer author super brain is it on side me?
[04:41.100 -> 04:41.860] this is going to be interesting today because I think I guess there's got a lot to say and
[04:48.600 -> 04:53.080] It's a man who has seen his world his football world through a kind of myriad of different roles and different positions. Yeah, I think often Jake, when we speak to our guests we ask them from one
[04:53.080 -> 04:58.120] particular perspective, whereas our guest today has seen it from the
[04:58.120 -> 05:02.360] ground floor level right the way through to ownership level as well as head coach
[05:02.360 -> 05:06.000] along the way, so I think we're going to get a variety of different perspectives. Felly rwy'n credu ein bod ni'n mynd i gael nifer o gwahaniaethau gwahanol.
[05:06.000 -> 05:09.000] Iawn, wel, gadewch i ni wneud hynny yma, ac yn dod i'r sgwrs o bywydau'n fwy cyffredin
[05:09.000 -> 05:12.000] gyda rhywun sy'n dod o dynastiaeth gwybodaeth.
[05:12.000 -> 05:14.000] Roedd ei tŷ yn grychwr proffesiynol,
[05:14.000 -> 05:16.000] ei siwr, gwestiwn ar y pod yn ddiweddarach,
[05:16.000 -> 05:19.000] a chael un o'n cyhoeddiadau gwybodaeth cyffredin cyffredin sy'n fwy arwain.
[05:19.000 -> 05:22.000] Ac yn y bôn, roedd yn mwynhau gyrfa proffesiynol
[05:22.000 -> 05:24.000] sy'n cael cymaint o ddau o'r ffyrdd,
[05:24.000 -> 05:30.280] y capau gwleidyddol, ac yna'r honno, y cyfrifiad o rhagleidio'r wlad. He enjoyed a professional career that delivered a stunning amount of silverware International caps and then eventually the honor of managing his country. Welcome to high-performance Phil Neville
[05:31.080 -> 05:35.000] Very well. Nice to have you with us nice big shoes to follow him a sister. Yeah
[05:35.000 -> 05:38.920] I know she was great actually. I mean, I'm sure you've listened to talks a lot, don't you?
[05:41.040 -> 05:45.680] And we're going to talk about life with the family actually, as the pod goes on.
[05:45.680 -> 05:50.340] But look, you've played, you've coached, you've managed, you're a part owner as well of Salford
[05:50.340 -> 05:51.340] City.
[05:51.340 -> 05:53.280] You've seen football from almost every single angle.
[05:53.280 -> 05:58.960] So in that world, in that football world and in your world, what do you believe high performance
[05:58.960 -> 06:00.960] is?
[06:00.960 -> 06:07.040] High performance for me is doing the right thing every single minute of every single day.
[06:07.040 -> 06:11.820] People talk about mental toughness and mental strength.
[06:11.820 -> 06:14.040] Mental toughness, mental strength, high performance
[06:14.040 -> 06:17.560] is actually doing everything perfect all the time.
[06:17.560 -> 06:18.600] And I know you're gonna have days
[06:18.600 -> 06:20.700] when you don't feel your best,
[06:20.700 -> 06:23.480] but I think the best athletes, the best trainers,
[06:23.480 -> 06:25.960] the best performers that I've worked with and played with
[06:25.960 -> 06:29.560] and coached are the ones that do everything perfect
[06:29.560 -> 06:31.920] every single day, from the minute that they get up
[06:31.920 -> 06:34.880] to the breakfast that they take, to the water
[06:34.880 -> 06:36.760] that they take in their car on the way to training
[06:36.760 -> 06:39.800] to get their hydration right, to the stretch in the pre-hab,
[06:39.800 -> 06:42.280] that then they go into the training ground, never late,
[06:42.280 -> 06:44.040] they wear the right clothes.
[06:44.040 -> 06:46.280] It's that consistency every single day
[06:46.280 -> 06:47.560] of doing the right thing.
[06:47.560 -> 06:49.880] And for me, that's high performance.
[06:49.880 -> 06:51.560] You can be born with unbelievable ability.
[06:51.560 -> 06:53.060] You can be born with not much ability,
[06:53.060 -> 06:55.200] but I think the real standout
[06:55.200 -> 06:57.120] are those that do it every single day.
[06:57.120 -> 06:58.800] And there'll be people listening to this that think,
[06:58.800 -> 07:00.600] yes, I'd love to hear that.
[07:00.600 -> 07:02.200] I'm going to live a high performance life
[07:02.200 -> 07:04.760] when I've finished listening to Phil on the podcast.
[07:04.760 -> 07:06.400] But maybe the issue for them is trying to
[07:06.400 -> 07:10.040] work out what doing what doing the right thing or doing the perfect thing is I
[07:10.040 -> 07:13.880] think that's the stumbling block we all want to be perfect but how do we work
[07:13.880 -> 07:18.800] out what it is so for you what do you believe doing the right thing is and
[07:18.800 -> 07:23.360] being perfect in every aspect of your life is you know I go back to the values
[07:23.360 -> 07:25.720] that my parents set us and then obviously followed
[07:25.720 -> 07:31.040] on at Manchester United and I never even thought about this until I became a coach and people,
[07:31.040 -> 07:36.120] as soon as I finished my career, I used to do interviews, podcasts or seminars and you
[07:36.120 -> 07:37.720] say, what was Alex Ferguson like?
[07:37.720 -> 07:41.920] And I spent probably about six months thinking about what was he like?
[07:41.920 -> 07:43.680] What were my parents like?
[07:43.680 -> 07:45.080] And I'd say that the biggest thing I learned
[07:45.080 -> 07:48.840] was the simplicity of actually everything that they did.
[07:48.840 -> 07:51.880] The simplicity of working hard, being polite,
[07:51.880 -> 07:53.560] saying please and thank yous.
[07:53.560 -> 07:56.880] I listened to something that Sean Dyche said about manners,
[07:56.880 -> 07:57.720] the way you dress.
[07:57.720 -> 08:00.200] Alex Ferguson was an absolute stickler.
[08:00.200 -> 08:01.440] No jeans on the way to training.
[08:01.440 -> 08:03.760] Look, the minute you walk into the training ground,
[08:03.760 -> 08:06.240] look, act, behave like a Manchester United footballer.
[08:06.240 -> 08:09.640] And, and jeans was a big one for him, you know, cause in that
[08:09.640 -> 08:13.000] probably generation, jeans were seen as scruffy, everyone wore a shirt and tie.
[08:13.000 -> 08:17.720] That's why Manchester United wear blazers because it was that, it was that attention
[08:17.720 -> 08:23.920] to the simple things in life and, you know, hard work, enjoyment, big thing.
[08:23.920 -> 08:26.880] Last thing he ever said to us before we went onto a football pitch, the last
[08:26.880 -> 08:29.840] thing my mum and dad said to us before we played for the under 11s in Bury,
[08:30.360 -> 08:31.640] just go out there and enjoy yourself.
[08:31.640 -> 08:33.320] If you're not enjoying yourself, you're not going to play well.
[08:33.320 -> 08:35.280] If you're not going to play well, because you're not enjoying yourself,
[08:35.440 -> 08:36.880] please go and play something else.
[08:37.200 -> 08:43.040] So it's the simple things and the values that I have with my team now are hard
[08:43.040 -> 08:48.400] work, humility, enjoyment, simple things that I think are
[08:48.400 -> 08:54.560] the cornerstone, the foundation for success. And there is no recipe. I actually sometimes think
[08:54.560 -> 09:00.320] you're not actually born with a certain amount of sort of talent. You actually, you develop your
[09:00.320 -> 09:07.800] talent, you enhance your talent, and then you train your talent to be the best. And when I talked about high performance before,
[09:07.800 -> 09:11.880] it's okay doing it for one day, two days, three days.
[09:11.880 -> 09:14.400] I actually want to see it for the whole of your life.
[09:14.400 -> 09:15.560] And that was Sir Alex.
[09:15.560 -> 09:17.480] Sir Alex was the best.
[09:17.480 -> 09:20.120] My dad was an absolute,
[09:20.120 -> 09:23.200] the most laid back, hardest man ever
[09:23.200 -> 09:27.760] in terms of, if you didn't say please and thank you, if you didn't take your plates away, if you didn't thank your mum for your tea on your
[09:27.760 -> 09:31.840] table, if my gran and grandad picked us up from the football practice and
[09:31.840 -> 09:36.000] we didn't give him a hug to say thank you and make him feel appreciated, that
[09:36.000 -> 09:38.920] was when he would come down as like a ton of bricks. He knew we'd have bad
[09:38.920 -> 09:42.760] games, he knew we would probably get out for a duck at cricket or score an own
[09:42.760 -> 09:47.800] goal, which I did, but it was that attitude to always giving your best.
[09:47.960 -> 09:50.280] What was it that you saw your dad do?
[09:50.280 -> 09:54.400] Cause I know Tracy spoke about, he said the example in terms of his five o'clock
[09:54.400 -> 09:55.800] start, get out of bed early.
[09:55.880 -> 09:56.240] Yeah.
[09:56.280 -> 09:56.760] Yeah.
[09:57.160 -> 09:58.000] Get out of bed early.
[09:58.000 -> 10:02.000] You know, it was almost like, I'm going to get out of bed early when everyone's
[10:02.000 -> 10:03.960] sleeping, I'm going to work harder than everybody else.
[10:03.960 -> 10:05.160] And that was his mentality.
[10:05.160 -> 10:08.720] There was a, there was a, I think it was Floyd Mayweather, as a saying that I
[10:08.720 -> 10:11.800] train when everybody else is sleeping, it was almost a little bit like that is
[10:11.800 -> 10:16.240] that he worked for a haulage company that had to drop suitcases to London.
[10:16.240 -> 10:20.560] He did five or six drops in London at Debenhams, John Lewis, whatever.
[10:21.040 -> 10:22.760] And he had Monday to Friday to do it.
[10:22.800 -> 10:24.240] And he used to always do it on a Monday.
[10:24.560 -> 10:25.800] He used to do it all in one day,
[10:25.800 -> 10:29.440] get up at three o'clock in the morning and attack the week. And
[10:29.880 -> 10:33.080] and we say, well, why don't you just take your time, have a stay
[10:33.080 -> 10:35.800] in London, because he got all the expenses. And he just said,
[10:35.800 -> 10:38.520] why wait around to do a job when you can do it in one day, do it
[10:38.520 -> 10:40.720] well, get back. And then he would work probably Wednesday,
[10:40.720 -> 10:42.960] Thursday, Friday, doing something else, earning more
[10:42.960 -> 10:48.480] money to put food on the table. And it was that type of mentality that he told us.
[10:48.480 -> 10:55.280] We used to come home from training at 16 and the youth coach used to always say to us,
[10:55.680 -> 10:58.800] if you want to, you can come back and train with the under 16s tonight,
[10:58.800 -> 11:00.400] because we were obviously 16 to 18.
[11:00.880 -> 11:05.160] And he would dangle a carrot and we'd come home and we were shattered, you know,
[11:05.160 -> 11:07.920] and let's get back to training ground, train.
[11:07.920 -> 11:10.000] And that was the mentality of getting back
[11:10.000 -> 11:11.500] and doing more and doing extra.
[11:11.500 -> 11:15.880] And it was no secret, secret sort of like a recipe.
[11:15.880 -> 11:16.720] It was just-
[11:16.720 -> 11:17.720] See, there's a nice story you told there
[11:17.720 -> 11:20.120] that reminded me of a story I've heard you tell before,
[11:20.120 -> 11:23.440] Phil, about when a nutritionist at United had suggested
[11:23.440 -> 11:25.520] that you needed to eat at four o'clock inwbl o'r gwbl ym mis MÙn
[11:25.520 -> 11:26.560] ac roedd yna weitabix,
[11:27.760 -> 11:30.480] felly gallai'n digestoi yn eich system ar y diwrnod o'r gêm.
[11:30.480 -> 11:32.560] Ac rwy'n cofio'n dweud y byddwch chi a'ch brif
[11:32.560 -> 11:34.640] yn sefydlu'r alarm i ddynnu o'r gwbl o'r gwbl i ddynnu weitabix.
[11:35.600 -> 11:36.800] I wneud hynny.
[11:36.800 -> 11:37.920] Y stori mwyaf ddiddorol oedd
[11:37.920 -> 11:41.360] pan ddechreuon ni'n mynd ar y trin i Lundain
[11:42.080 -> 11:44.160] ac roeddem ni'n dynnu o'r gwbl o'r gwbl
[11:44.160 -> 11:45.920] yn y diwrnod ar ôl y trin. Ac yna roedd bob amser, go on the train down to London, and we'd eat at one o'clock in the afternoon after training.
[11:45.920 -> 11:48.120] And then it was always like five, six meals a day,
[11:48.120 -> 11:50.520] little enough and get your carbs
[11:50.520 -> 11:52.040] and your protein inside you.
[11:52.040 -> 11:54.920] And on the train, they didn't have bowls or cereals.
[11:54.920 -> 11:57.200] And we was told at the time that cereals were the one
[11:57.200 -> 12:00.040] that would give you the most carbohydrates as a snack.
[12:00.040 -> 12:02.600] So we used to get onto the train
[12:02.600 -> 12:03.800] and people playing cards.
[12:03.800 -> 12:06.440] And then at what, 4.30 every train on the way down to London,
[12:06.440 -> 12:08.120] me and my brother used to steal a bowl
[12:08.120 -> 12:10.080] from the cliff training ground, get the ball out,
[12:10.080 -> 12:12.440] box of cornflakes, and we got hammered,
[12:12.440 -> 12:13.480] hammered every single day.
[12:13.480 -> 12:15.840] You can imagine on a bus when we'd steal in a bowl
[12:15.840 -> 12:17.920] from the canteen, we'd ask some milk off the train
[12:17.920 -> 12:19.440] for the tea.
[12:19.440 -> 12:20.840] And that was sort of like,
[12:20.840 -> 12:22.960] well, we was told at 4.30 we had to eat,
[12:22.960 -> 12:25.360] and carbohydrates was the best for cereal.
[12:25.360 -> 12:29.000] I remember hearing Alex Ferguson talk about seeing
[12:29.000 -> 12:30.440] once in the cliff training ground,
[12:30.440 -> 12:32.320] seeing players gathered against the wall
[12:32.320 -> 12:34.760] and it was you and your brother doing extra running
[12:34.760 -> 12:36.960] on your own and they were catcalling you.
[12:36.960 -> 12:40.520] And he remembers being taken by your mental fortitude
[12:40.520 -> 13:05.480] that you would do that regardless of the mickey taking and the abuse that you get. y byddwch chi'n ei wneud hynny, yn gyfraith i'r myceth a'r arddangosfa a'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint o'r cymaint We made great sacrifices then. And like I say, you see your friends going out with girlfriends and going out
[13:05.480 -> 13:11.880] drinking or discoing, and we suffered an awful lot of probably mickertaking
[13:12.240 -> 13:13.680] because we weren't that person.
[13:13.680 -> 13:14.400] We were always different.
[13:14.400 -> 13:17.720] We were always ready to make the sacrifice to be successful.
[13:17.760 -> 13:22.680] The biggest sort of like challenge I had was when I went to Everton, because I went
[13:22.680 -> 13:26.080] to Everton to a team that had a brilliant manager,
[13:26.080 -> 13:31.200] but didn't have the mentality probably at that time of the players at Manchester United in terms
[13:31.200 -> 13:36.960] of doing extra. So I used to go in the gym at 9.15 and nobody was in the gym. I used to go out
[13:36.960 -> 13:41.520] onto the training pitch half an hour before everybody else, nobody was out there. And for a
[13:41.520 -> 13:46.320] year, I was called teacher's pet, Moises little boy, doing
[13:46.320 -> 13:51.080] it for show. And I was like, actually, this is what I've done for the last 10 years. There
[13:51.080 -> 13:55.560] was a moment when you saw like, should I just go into the pack? But I never wanted to be
[13:55.560 -> 14:00.800] in the pack. My mum and dad never wanted us to be just alongside everybody else. And they
[14:00.800 -> 14:03.880] wanted us to say, look, if you're going to make it, you're going to have to make that
[14:03.880 -> 14:08.200] many sacrifices and go through a little bit of pain to get to where you wanted
[14:08.200 -> 14:09.200] to do.
[14:09.200 -> 14:14.240] So ultimately it became part of my motivation as I'm working harder than you and I'm preparing
[14:14.240 -> 14:18.720] harder than you that are sat upstairs having toast or going out to a disco.
[14:18.720 -> 14:21.320] So that was part of my motivation.
[14:21.320 -> 14:25.480] And my players at the moment, you talk about women's football,
[14:25.480 -> 14:27.480] there's a change in professionalism
[14:27.480 -> 14:29.080] from how it used to be to now
[14:29.080 -> 14:32.500] where there's a lot of things on offer for them,
[14:32.500 -> 14:34.120] physical training, nutrition,
[14:34.120 -> 14:36.160] and it's pushing them beyond the boundaries
[14:36.160 -> 14:38.260] of the Stralix first and quarters.
[14:38.260 -> 14:39.960] If you only do what your coach tells you,
[14:39.960 -> 14:41.260] that is not enough.
[14:41.260 -> 14:42.480] So you come into training,
[14:42.480 -> 14:43.720] coach puts on a session,
[14:43.720 -> 14:44.560] I've done everything now,
[14:44.560 -> 14:49.480] the experts have told me what to, actually, it's the 10, 20% you do away from that, that
[14:49.480 -> 14:52.360] I think sets the Rinaldos apart.
[14:52.360 -> 14:57.160] So if there was a young person listening to this, that whether it's, they want to do better
[14:57.160 -> 15:02.560] at their studies or they wanted to pursue a different career and they've got the temptations
[15:02.560 -> 15:06.560] of going out with the friends or all the other sort of distractions.
[15:07.380 -> 15:12.780] What advice would you give them to help them forge their own path rather than
[15:12.780 -> 15:15.160] just go with the herd and follow what everybody else is doing?
[15:15.240 -> 15:18.200] Well, I would say the first thing you need is a direction in which you want to go in.
[15:18.200 -> 15:23.000] You need to, you know, if you want to be a designer or a lawyer or a top surgeon,
[15:23.000 -> 15:25.280] if you really want it, then you've got to sort of
[15:25.280 -> 15:31.120] like have that tunnel vision and put everything to one side. And I think it's that that sets
[15:31.120 -> 15:34.400] people apart of, you know, where do you want to go on your holidays? Do you want to go to Blackpool
[15:34.400 -> 15:38.240] or do you want to go to the moon? And if you want to be a surgeon, then you've got to dedicate your
[15:38.240 -> 15:43.520] life to becoming a surgeon and putting all the hours in the practice. And that takes a lot of
[15:43.520 -> 15:46.480] mental strength. And when we go back to mental strength before,
[15:46.480 -> 15:48.760] mental strength is actually doing the right things
[15:48.760 -> 15:51.560] all the time, not just Monday to Friday,
[15:51.560 -> 15:53.200] it's Saturday, Sunday too.
[15:53.200 -> 15:54.640] The parents always used to say to us,
[15:54.640 -> 15:57.320] if you've got a dream, go for it, but commit 100% to it.
[15:57.320 -> 15:59.880] Don't go half-hearted at it, don't cut corners
[15:59.880 -> 16:03.320] and become that person that does 12, 14 reps than just 10.
[16:03.320 -> 16:05.400] You know, and it's the extra four,
[16:05.400 -> 16:07.340] four to six reps that you do
[16:07.340 -> 16:08.840] that are actually gonna make the difference
[16:08.840 -> 16:10.800] of you becoming what you wanna be
[16:10.800 -> 16:12.400] or just being part of the pack.
[16:12.400 -> 16:14.040] Is there a slight challenge for you though,
[16:14.040 -> 16:15.720] that you were growing up
[16:15.720 -> 16:17.640] and you were seeing your dad grafting
[16:17.640 -> 16:19.080] and driving to London,
[16:19.080 -> 16:21.160] yet you've made an awful lot of money.
[16:21.160 -> 16:22.720] Your brother's made an awful lot of money.
[16:22.720 -> 16:24.560] Your family are very well off.
[16:24.560 -> 16:29.000] You've had great careers. So how do you instill in your children that fight
[16:29.000 -> 16:30.000] and that spirit?
[16:30.000 -> 16:36.400] Well, it's, it's the biggest challenge that we've had as a parent. We give them everything,
[16:36.400 -> 16:40.320] but actually I thought I had everything. Even though my parents, we lived in a terraced
[16:40.320 -> 16:44.240] house in Bury. I actually thought we were rich. I thought because we used to always
[16:44.240 -> 16:45.000] get new trainers,
[16:45.000 -> 16:47.600] new cricket bat, but the thing is,
[16:47.600 -> 16:51.840] is when I wanted a new Cuckabra bat when I was 13,
[16:51.840 -> 16:54.200] I was playing for England in about six weeks time.
[16:54.200 -> 16:57.120] And I said, I think I saw Ricky Ponting
[16:57.120 -> 16:59.640] or Mark Taylor, an Australian with a Cuckabra bat.
[16:59.640 -> 17:01.680] And I said, dad, I want one of them Cuckabra bats.
[17:01.680 -> 17:02.960] He said, you've got to earn it.
[17:02.960 -> 17:04.040] Go out there, score runs.
[17:04.040 -> 17:06.000] And I'll never forget, I scored a hundred,
[17:06.000 -> 17:09.160] then a 50 the day after he came home with a bat for me.
[17:09.160 -> 17:12.600] I had to earn everything that I had.
[17:12.600 -> 17:15.560] And that's what I say to my son and daughter now.
[17:15.560 -> 17:17.760] I mean, they can have anything they want,
[17:17.760 -> 17:18.640] but they've got to earn it.
[17:18.640 -> 17:21.520] And they have to work as hard as they possibly can.
[17:21.520 -> 17:23.120] I mean, during this lockdown,
[17:23.120 -> 17:26.360] we've never allowed them a lie in past eight o'clock.
[17:26.360 -> 17:28.840] And that might seem cruel,
[17:28.840 -> 17:32.440] but we want them to get out of bed in the morning
[17:32.440 -> 17:35.400] with a thirst, with a hunger,
[17:35.400 -> 17:37.440] to go and do their Zoom classes,
[17:37.440 -> 17:39.680] to go to my son, go to the training pitch
[17:39.680 -> 17:41.160] and do his extra work.
[17:41.160 -> 17:43.160] And yes, he's had a bit of off time,
[17:43.160 -> 17:49.720] but he's probably only took three or four days off because ultimately I wanted him to drive it himself. And I wanted
[17:49.720 -> 17:54.480] my daughter to get up out of bed in the morning. We, as a family train before breakfast, that's
[17:54.480 -> 17:59.540] our mentality. That's our, since we were five, we've, we've always tried to get them up before
[17:59.540 -> 18:00.540] breakfast to train.
[18:00.540 -> 18:01.540] Love that.
[18:01.540 -> 18:02.540] And, and I'm like,
[18:02.540 -> 18:05.000] Love that man. We struggled to get out of the house. We're always late for the school run.
[18:05.000 -> 18:07.500] And my daughter, my daughter's got cerebral palsy.
[18:07.500 -> 18:09.240] She's disabled.
[18:09.240 -> 18:14.520] And at five years of age to get, who struggled to walk, she had a K frame, to get her into
[18:14.520 -> 18:20.480] the gym to do her core exercises, to do her leg strength was, it was hard.
[18:20.480 -> 18:23.840] Made you cry some mornings, but ultimately now when she gets out of bed and goes and
[18:23.840 -> 18:25.200] does 5k,
[18:29.680 -> 18:33.760] I'm like, it was worth the pain back then when it was five or six. And we used to do core sessions and we used to, on a Sunday morning was out was the one morning I used to say to him,
[18:33.760 -> 18:39.600] everybody else is lying in today. Sunday mornings is our time where we would go do 100 lengths in
[18:39.600 -> 18:47.440] the pool or do something that would get them into the frame of mind of, actually, we've got to do this to succeed, the hard work, the determination.
[18:47.440 -> 18:50.200] And, and now my son goes out training on his own.
[18:50.240 -> 18:54.440] I never, very rarely, unless, unless he wants something or unless we,
[18:54.440 -> 18:58.760] I want something like a game of football, I want them to be motivated themselves,
[18:58.760 -> 19:00.800] not because I'm taking him to a football pitch.
[19:01.080 -> 19:05.840] So Phil, I'm interested in that idea of when you went to Everton hwnnw o'r tro pan wnaethwch i Everton,
[19:05.840 -> 19:08.840] y byddwch chi'n mynd i mewn a byddwch chi'n seilio'ch standardau eich hun,
[19:08.840 -> 19:13.400] a sut y gwnaethwch chi ymlaen ymdrechu'r rhai eraill i ddod â chi?
[19:13.400 -> 19:16.960] Ychydig o bethau, yna, efallai yw pobl yn eich gweld eich hun
[19:16.960 -> 19:18.920] a'u meddwl, hmm, byddwn i'n cael rhan o hynny,
[19:18.920 -> 19:24.000] ac nid wyf yn gwybod, Tim Kale, Lee Carsley, Mikel Arteta,
[19:24.000 -> 19:26.240] rydyn ni'n deall, oh I like them, so they come
[19:26.240 -> 19:29.040] out and play football with you, come out and do some passing with you and then all of a
[19:29.040 -> 19:34.080] sudden there's a bit of a Pied Piper effect and then you either bring them along with
[19:34.080 -> 19:38.680] you or you change the players or the people within your organisation and what David Moyes
[19:38.680 -> 19:43.960] did and Everton finished in the top four so I'm saying there was a great team but he wanted
[19:43.960 -> 19:45.040] to change the culture.
[19:45.440 -> 19:48.680] He brought in Andy Johnson, Jolyon Lescott, Phil Jagielka, Leighton
[19:48.680 -> 19:52.040] Baines, Tim Howard, hungry young players.
[19:52.720 -> 19:56.080] That all of a sudden was, was, was in this culture that he wanted to
[19:56.080 -> 19:58.640] create hunger, determination, hard work.
[19:58.640 -> 20:03.960] So I think when you're, when you're in a team environment, you, you assess
[20:04.240 -> 20:05.760] the hunger and the drive
[20:05.760 -> 20:08.680] of your workers or your team.
[20:08.680 -> 20:11.680] And then if it's not, doesn't fit the culture that you want
[20:11.680 -> 20:13.080] and they won't change with it,
[20:13.080 -> 20:15.320] you've got to change the people that are in that culture.
[20:15.320 -> 20:16.780] And that's what David Moyes did.
[20:16.780 -> 20:18.000] He changed the whole culture.
[20:18.000 -> 20:19.760] And what happened was he changed the team,
[20:19.760 -> 20:21.480] younger, fresher team.
[20:21.480 -> 20:23.840] And we also moved training grounds from Belfield
[20:23.840 -> 20:28.720] that was really part of Everton's history and they did some things a certain way to
[20:28.720 -> 20:32.840] then Finch Farm that was state-of-the-art, gyms, pools and all of a
[20:32.840 -> 20:36.480] sudden the culture just flipped but when we went there you had to have a team of
[20:36.480 -> 20:40.760] people going there that could embrace that new culture and I think that was
[20:40.760 -> 20:44.000] important. And yet to have a manager that had the vision to do that, I mean that's
[20:44.000 -> 20:45.600] really important is that
[20:45.600 -> 20:48.000] he knew he had to change the culture
[20:48.000 -> 20:49.400] of getting into training,
[20:49.400 -> 20:51.160] going upstairs, having a piece of toast,
[20:51.160 -> 20:52.160] reading the newspaper,
[20:52.160 -> 20:53.720] waiting until 29 minutes past 10,
[20:53.720 -> 20:55.080] going out to the training field.
[20:55.080 -> 20:58.320] He wanted to change the whole culture of the club.
[20:58.320 -> 21:00.600] How aware were you that what you've described there
[21:00.600 -> 21:02.720] sounds an awful lot about like the impact
[21:02.720 -> 21:05.800] that Eric Cantona had when he came into United.
[21:05.800 -> 21:08.440] Now I know you were still in the youth team at that time,
[21:08.440 -> 21:11.480] but how aware were you that there was a similarity
[21:11.480 -> 21:13.760] in what you, like you were the Cantona figure?
[21:13.760 -> 21:14.600] In a-
[21:14.600 -> 21:16.440] Never heard that one before.
[21:16.440 -> 21:18.040] Never heard that one.
[21:18.040 -> 21:21.560] No, I think what happened was at United was that,
[21:21.560 -> 21:24.600] so Alex did want to change the culture and he did,
[21:24.600 -> 21:26.280] like the academy had changed, that work ethic was that, so Alex did want to change the culture and he did like the academy had changed
[21:26.280 -> 21:28.880] that work ethic was there,
[21:28.880 -> 21:30.920] but obviously we were young players,
[21:30.920 -> 21:32.800] but he had to have, he had to change the culture
[21:32.800 -> 21:37.480] in his first team and Cantona was almost like here,
[21:37.480 -> 21:39.840] this is what the top players do.
[21:39.840 -> 21:42.760] And we at United, we had the best players,
[21:42.760 -> 21:44.420] you know, Ins Keane were there,
[21:44.420 -> 21:46.000] but this is what the best players do.
[21:46.000 -> 21:47.680] And people talk to me about Kantar now,
[21:47.680 -> 21:49.320] what did he used to do?
[21:49.320 -> 21:51.160] He used to get a ball, get a wall,
[21:51.160 -> 21:52.480] and just kick a ball against the wall,
[21:52.480 -> 21:53.320] left foot, right foot,
[21:53.320 -> 21:55.240] control it with the outside of his foot,
[21:55.240 -> 21:57.760] drag it to his right, play it with his left.
[21:57.760 -> 22:00.600] It was just like simple drills
[22:00.600 -> 22:03.440] that made him so good on a Saturday.
[22:03.440 -> 22:05.000] Somebody would cross a ball into the box
[22:05.000 -> 22:07.000] and he would hit volley after volley,
[22:07.000 -> 22:08.000] but it was just simple.
[22:08.000 -> 22:10.000] Do you remember the goal that Scholes
[22:10.000 -> 22:11.000] scored against Bradford?
[22:11.000 -> 22:14.000] Beckham drive, Scholes volley.
[22:14.000 -> 22:17.000] Now that was as simple as
[22:17.000 -> 22:19.000] after every training session,
[22:19.000 -> 22:21.000] somebody on the left wing just pinging a ball
[22:21.000 -> 22:22.000] into an area where the D was
[22:22.000 -> 22:25.520] and him just lashing the ball 10, 15, 20 times.
[22:25.520 -> 22:30.400] It wasn't like you think individual bits of brilliant coaching training.
[22:30.400 -> 22:33.360] No, it was just repetition of simplicity.
[22:33.360 -> 22:35.840] And that's what Kantanar was.
[22:35.840 -> 22:38.560] He trained every single day as if it was a World Cup final.
[22:38.560 -> 22:39.840] Every single pass mattered.
[22:39.840 -> 22:41.120] Every single touch mattered.
[22:41.680 -> 22:45.600] And then afterwards, he did his 12 to 14 reps extra
[22:45.600 -> 22:50.120] that made him one of the most influential players
[22:50.120 -> 22:51.020] at Manchester United.
[22:51.020 -> 22:52.920] So there's a sort of theme repeating itself here
[22:52.920 -> 22:54.000] because when we first said,
[22:54.000 -> 22:56.140] what do you think high performance is?
[22:56.140 -> 22:58.480] You said it's about doing the little things right
[22:58.480 -> 22:59.760] again and again and again.
[22:59.760 -> 23:01.840] And then we watch an incredible goal
[23:01.840 -> 23:03.480] scored by Paul Scholes and think,
[23:03.480 -> 23:05.800] wow, there's some genius behind that.
[23:05.800 -> 23:09.580] We talked, we sit here and talk to you 15, 20 years later, and you're like, no, it was
[23:09.580 -> 23:11.720] exactly what I described at the beginning.
[23:11.720 -> 23:13.360] The focus on the tiny details.
[23:13.360 -> 23:18.080] And I think sometimes in life, we want to get somewhere and we see the destination and
[23:18.080 -> 23:21.680] we think, well, that's out of reach, it's impossible because we can't see the tiny steps.
[23:21.680 -> 23:25.440] And if we just make those little tiny steps, we'll get there in the end.
[23:25.440 -> 23:27.320] You know, if someone had said to you 20 years ago,
[23:27.320 -> 23:29.300] you'd be managing the national team,
[23:29.300 -> 23:31.600] you'd go, that feels right up there,
[23:31.600 -> 23:33.120] right up high in the sky.
[23:33.120 -> 23:36.560] Tiny steps, going to Everton, being a leader,
[23:36.560 -> 23:39.160] going to Valencia, alongside your brother,
[23:39.160 -> 23:40.620] seeing that it can be difficult.
[23:40.620 -> 23:42.800] The time you spent at Salford is, you know,
[23:42.800 -> 23:44.000] running things there.
[23:44.000 -> 23:47.840] All of them, tiny steps, taking you to a grand destination. That's life.
[23:47.840 -> 23:52.080] You know, it's, it's the, the destination is where you want to get to, but you actually
[23:52.080 -> 23:56.040] don't focus on the destination. We always focus on the process, the process to get there
[23:56.040 -> 24:01.200] and the process to get there is actually really simple. It's just when you miss stages out
[24:01.200 -> 24:06.240] on the way to your destination, where people, cause what people want to do, they want to, they want to, at the start line,
[24:06.240 -> 24:07.840] they just want to jump to the destination
[24:07.840 -> 24:09.680] and miss out the process in between.
[24:09.680 -> 24:11.440] And I say to my players all the time,
[24:11.440 -> 24:13.280] because when we was at United,
[24:13.280 -> 24:16.480] Ronaldo was the biggest example of someone that,
[24:16.480 -> 24:17.880] from the outside, you think,
[24:17.880 -> 24:19.640] God-given talent, doesn't need to work hard,
[24:19.640 -> 24:21.040] just turns up on a football pitch,
[24:21.040 -> 24:23.360] looks a million dollars and just goes out there.
[24:23.360 -> 24:25.680] Well, there was one day I mapped out a day
[24:25.680 -> 24:26.800] in the life of Rinaldo,
[24:26.800 -> 24:28.800] put it on the flip chart for the girls
[24:28.800 -> 24:30.100] at the start of my reign.
[24:30.100 -> 24:32.060] And in the day of Rinaldo,
[24:32.060 -> 24:34.360] there was only an hour in the day where he was coached.
[24:34.360 -> 24:36.180] The rest of it was him self-driven,
[24:36.180 -> 24:37.740] getting to training early, doing his weights,
[24:37.740 -> 24:39.560] doing his abdominals, doing his massage,
[24:39.560 -> 24:42.200] going home, employing a chef to look after his nutrition,
[24:42.200 -> 24:44.620] going to bed for three hours in an afternoon.
[24:44.620 -> 24:48.360] Ultimately, the day in the life of Ronaldo for me
[24:48.360 -> 24:51.880] is a perfect example of when you see him doing the step overs
[24:51.880 -> 24:53.600] after every training session,
[24:53.600 -> 24:55.200] training session finished, extra training,
[24:55.200 -> 24:58.280] then he would take a ball around the whole circumference
[24:58.280 -> 24:59.880] of Carrington Training Ground,
[24:59.880 -> 25:03.480] doing his step overs, jogging pace, walking pace,
[25:03.480 -> 25:06.560] drag bikes, step backs, cross for every,
[25:06.560 -> 25:08.920] and that was like 3K round of training ground,
[25:08.920 -> 25:10.200] day before the game, he would do it.
[25:10.200 -> 25:12.080] And people say, oh, God given talent.
[25:12.080 -> 25:14.960] No, that lad used to watch YouTube clips
[25:14.960 -> 25:17.160] of a skilly light, and then he would go and practice it.
[25:17.160 -> 25:19.200] Then he would take it out on the training ground.
[25:19.200 -> 25:23.240] And that lad got absolutely booted every single day
[25:23.240 -> 25:27.400] off scores, my brother, Keane, Van, he used to get up never more
[25:27.400 -> 25:29.520] than one bit, the most mentally tough player
[25:29.520 -> 25:30.360] I've ever played with.
[25:30.360 -> 25:32.440] So from all the things that you've seen
[25:32.440 -> 25:34.640] and Ronaldo's a great example,
[25:34.640 -> 25:37.600] do you believe anyone can live a high performance life
[25:37.600 -> 25:39.440] if it is as simple as breaking your life down
[25:39.440 -> 25:42.640] into tiny, tiny bits and doing the process right?
[25:42.640 -> 25:44.520] Absolutely, absolutely.
[25:44.520 -> 25:46.480] In any job that you go to.
[25:46.480 -> 25:49.720] But like my dad was a long distance lorry driver.
[25:49.720 -> 25:53.360] And I would say that he lived a high performance life
[25:53.360 -> 25:54.720] as a long distance lorry driver,
[25:54.720 -> 25:57.520] because there are certain disciplines that you need,
[25:57.520 -> 26:00.320] sleep, when you're getting up at three in the morning,
[26:00.320 -> 26:04.160] obviously the ability to drive five, six hours a day,
[26:04.160 -> 26:08.440] like it was back then, the ability to go to deliver
[26:08.440 -> 26:12.040] and he did everything right because what he wanted to do,
[26:12.040 -> 26:15.520] he wanted to be the best at his job.
[26:15.520 -> 26:17.760] So what are you like then with excuse makers who say,
[26:17.760 -> 26:19.600] well, I could do that, but this has happened.
[26:19.600 -> 26:22.000] No, they don't get picked.
[26:22.840 -> 26:24.640] They don't play a part in the team.
[26:24.640 -> 26:27.920] And you give them a chance and you try and educate them.
[26:27.920 -> 26:29.800] Cause I think education is really important
[26:29.800 -> 26:31.320] because sometimes people don't know,
[26:31.320 -> 26:32.360] like you said at the start,
[26:32.360 -> 26:34.320] they don't know what best practice is.
[26:34.320 -> 26:37.160] They don't know what actually elite looks like.
[26:37.160 -> 26:38.320] So you teach them,
[26:38.320 -> 26:40.200] you educate them on what elite looks like.
[26:40.200 -> 26:42.760] And if they don't jump on board and they cut corners,
[26:42.760 -> 26:46.600] then you quickly move on to the next player that you think,
[26:46.600 -> 26:48.720] hmm, she, he or she has got it.
[26:48.720 -> 26:50.320] I think it's a good message for people though, isn't it?
[26:50.320 -> 26:51.720] That you can just break it down.
[26:51.720 -> 26:53.160] And to hear someone like Phil say
[26:53.160 -> 26:54.840] that anyone can live a high performance life,
[26:54.840 -> 26:57.440] hopefully people will listen to that and take it on board.
[26:57.440 -> 26:58.280] Well, definitely.
[26:58.280 -> 26:59.120] I think it's that.
[26:59.120 -> 27:01.400] I think what's really jumped out of what Phil said there
[27:01.400 -> 27:04.520] is that you can have an outcome of where you want to get to,
[27:04.520 -> 27:06.400] but the process has to be right along
[27:06.400 -> 27:09.600] the journey because otherwise the outcome is flawed.
[27:09.600 -> 27:14.400] What about when you start the journey and you start the process and things are difficult?
[27:14.400 -> 27:18.100] Well, there's a great saying, isn't there, that you should always be fixed on your outcome
[27:18.100 -> 27:20.300] but be flexible in the route that you take to get there.
[27:20.300 -> 27:22.800] So you have to change, you have to adapt.
[27:22.800 -> 27:25.120] Do you have to expect failure along the way.
[27:25.440 -> 27:29.520] I think failure is needed in a way along the journey.
[27:29.520 -> 27:33.920] And I think, I think it's very rarely that in a lifetime that you don't
[27:33.920 -> 27:35.320] suffer some kind of failure.
[27:35.320 -> 27:37.520] I think it's the failures you learn more for.
[27:37.520 -> 27:40.880] And I think the adaptability on the road, the road isn't always straight.
[27:41.320 -> 27:44.960] And the adaptability on the road is, is crucial.
[27:44.960 -> 27:45.440] When I got to 23, I played a game and Shearer just absolutely The road isn't always straight and the adaptability on the road is crucial.
[27:45.440 -> 27:48.280] When I got to 23, I played a game
[27:48.280 -> 27:50.720] and sheer just absolutely bullied me.
[27:50.720 -> 27:54.200] Every time a ball came into the box, elbow bullied him.
[27:54.200 -> 27:56.200] And I remember going home saying,
[27:56.200 -> 27:59.240] I've got to, I can't just get through on my ability now.
[27:59.240 -> 28:00.680] I've got to do something different.
[28:00.680 -> 28:02.840] And then sat down with the S&C coach.
[28:02.840 -> 28:05.960] We had a 12 week program of building me up,
[28:05.960 -> 28:07.960] becoming more robust.
[28:07.960 -> 28:10.240] I'd never touched a weight until I was 24,
[28:10.240 -> 28:13.720] never done S&C and Stralich just didn't really believe in it.
[28:13.720 -> 28:15.480] He wanted you to be the best footballer out there.
[28:15.480 -> 28:18.040] And all of a sudden you had to adapt
[28:18.040 -> 28:19.960] to another way of training, another way.
[28:19.960 -> 28:22.280] And then, then when I went to Everton,
[28:22.280 -> 28:24.520] there was another adaptation period there
[28:24.520 -> 28:28.560] or thinking I was going to spend the rest of my life at one club, then go into another club with,
[28:28.560 -> 28:30.040] who had different expectation levels.
[28:30.040 -> 28:35.320] And I had to soften my approach to people probably because again, you go back to the
[28:35.320 -> 28:40.000] education about their standards against your standards, which made me an even better person.
[28:40.000 -> 28:47.920] I've got to say a better person, more adaptable in my thinking and warmer in the way that at United, it was just ruthless cutthroat.
[28:47.920 -> 28:49.560] You're not up to it, out you go.
[28:49.600 -> 28:50.760] You're not good enough for this bus.
[28:50.760 -> 28:51.520] You're getting off the bus.
[28:51.520 -> 28:55.440] Where Everton, you had to, you had to help people get onto the bus.
[28:55.440 -> 28:56.680] You had to give them a hand sometimes.
[28:56.680 -> 28:57.800] Did you struggle with that at first?
[28:59.400 -> 29:00.800] Yes, I did.
[29:00.800 -> 29:04.480] But I actually loved the part of actually trying to help people because
[29:04.480 -> 29:09.320] there was players at United like Steve Bruce or Robbo or even Keno to extent.
[29:09.640 -> 29:13.400] They were that person at United that helped dragging them along.
[29:13.400 -> 29:17.000] I was dragged along at times at United by better players than me.
[29:17.360 -> 29:21.080] And they did it in certain ways with some players, you have to be tough on them.
[29:21.080 -> 29:22.760] With others, you have to do it in a different way.
[29:22.760 -> 29:25.760] And that's where I started to learn about the man management,
[29:25.760 -> 29:26.920] the connection with someone,
[29:26.920 -> 29:29.320] understanding the person rather than just a guy
[29:29.320 -> 29:31.400] that played bad on the Saturday.
[29:31.400 -> 29:34.160] And that was my biggest learning really at Everton
[29:34.160 -> 29:36.880] was that there was players of different levels,
[29:36.880 -> 29:39.120] ages, family situations were different.
[29:39.120 -> 29:40.480] They lived further away.
[29:40.480 -> 29:42.200] At United, we all lived within three miles.
[29:42.200 -> 29:43.160] We were a family.
[29:43.160 -> 29:45.560] Everton, we were traveling from an hour and a half away
[29:45.560 -> 29:47.000] with different types of problems.
[29:47.000 -> 29:51.360] So I became more flexible in my thinking when I left United.
[29:51.360 -> 29:53.800] So what were you like when you left United?
[29:53.800 -> 29:55.240] And then how would you describe yourself
[29:55.240 -> 29:56.960] by the time you left Everton then?
[29:56.960 -> 29:57.800] What would you say was the biggest change?
[29:57.800 -> 29:59.720] I think I had a closed mindset at United.
[29:59.720 -> 30:04.240] We were cocooned in an environment of just pure winning
[30:04.240 -> 30:06.000] and nothing else mattered in life.
[30:06.000 -> 30:11.840] Ruthlessness, ruthlessness, win. Defeat felt like the end of the world. Defeat felt like
[30:11.840 -> 30:16.960] there was a death in the family. Where at Everton, there was a more open, more,
[30:16.960 -> 30:22.640] I developed a more openness to my thinking. United, we hated everyone. Everyone outside
[30:22.640 -> 30:25.000] the outside our bubble, they were the enemy.
[30:25.000 -> 30:27.000] They wanted to do us.
[30:27.000 -> 30:33.000] On our podcast we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life.
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[31:42.800 -> 32:06.440] offer and your new three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month This fills up up an interesting question
[32:06.440 -> 32:08.600] that my wife has often challenged me about this
[32:08.600 -> 32:10.040] when we're doing the podcast of,
[32:10.040 -> 32:11.880] how important do you think being well-rounded is
[32:11.880 -> 32:13.560] to being a high performer?
[32:13.560 -> 32:16.400] Well, I think you've got to relate to different people.
[32:16.400 -> 32:18.960] I think that's a necessity
[32:18.960 -> 32:21.120] because 20 years ago it was all English players,
[32:21.120 -> 32:22.360] all UK based players,
[32:22.360 -> 32:24.920] all probably had the same type of upbringing,
[32:24.920 -> 32:26.160] middle-class upbringing.
[32:26.160 -> 32:28.280] Now you've got people from different environments,
[32:28.280 -> 32:30.960] religion, gender, whatever.
[32:30.960 -> 32:33.240] You've got to relate to all those different people.
[32:33.240 -> 32:35.160] And I think that's where the best coaches now
[32:35.160 -> 32:39.480] are those that can relate to different types of people,
[32:39.480 -> 32:41.640] even more than the tactics and the systems
[32:41.640 -> 32:42.480] that they do on a Saturday.
[32:42.480 -> 32:43.920] I think the connection with the person
[32:43.920 -> 32:45.160] is actually more,
[32:45.160 -> 32:46.920] more vital than actually anything else.
[32:46.920 -> 32:50.040] And to do that, you need to have a great understanding
[32:50.040 -> 32:53.600] of people, emotional intelligence, and that is a skill.
[32:53.600 -> 32:56.360] To a portion of them, Phil, for you now as a coach,
[32:56.360 -> 32:59.200] how much would you weigh as a coach,
[32:59.200 -> 33:01.840] the credibility of speaking about tactics and game plans
[33:01.840 -> 33:05.840] versus the ability to engage and to be able to speak to different people from different backgrounds? What would you weigh? yw'r fath o tacteg a'r cynllunau chwarae, yn ymwneud ag y gallu i gynnig a gallu siarad
[33:05.840 -> 33:08.480] â phobl gwahanol o gwahanol ogystalasau, beth bynnag y byddwch chi'n ei gynnal?
[33:08.480 -> 33:09.360] Y perthynas?
[33:09.360 -> 33:09.860] Ie.
[33:11.200 -> 33:17.680] Y tacteg yw rhan fach, rwy'n credu, y tacteg yn y system yw rhan fach o'r perthynas
[33:17.680 -> 33:21.600] o'r pwllau y byddwch chi'n ei gael fel rhanwyr, rhanwyr o bobl.
[33:23.040 -> 33:26.200] Mae angen i chi, i gyd, you've got to manage 800 people.
[33:26.200 -> 33:28.480] You've got to connect with 800 people,
[33:28.480 -> 33:30.760] plus 800 million people around the world.
[33:30.760 -> 33:33.440] So when you're speaking to the media,
[33:33.440 -> 33:35.920] doesn't matter what system, tactical genius you could be,
[33:35.920 -> 33:39.360] you've got to inspire everybody in your football club.
[33:39.360 -> 33:42.920] You've got an owner that probably lives in Singapore,
[33:42.920 -> 33:47.040] in USA, that is watching this this interview that you've got to,
[33:47.040 -> 33:49.080] he's got to say, I'm putting all my money
[33:49.080 -> 33:51.320] and I trust that guy in front of the microphone speaking.
[33:51.320 -> 33:52.880] That's not systems and tactics.
[33:52.880 -> 33:56.640] That's connecting and being able to manage people,
[33:56.640 -> 34:00.180] organizations, and you talk about Premier League,
[34:00.180 -> 34:02.320] you've got to organize institutions.
[34:02.320 -> 34:05.920] And that is more than just a system or a tactic.
[34:05.920 -> 34:08.560] And I think when you look at Jurgen Klopp,
[34:08.560 -> 34:11.280] Pochettino and Pep, the best managers,
[34:11.280 -> 34:14.000] are those that when you turn on the television,
[34:14.000 -> 34:16.000] you might, I've never met Jurgen Klopp.
[34:16.000 -> 34:18.240] And I'm thinking, I'd like to play for that guy.
[34:18.240 -> 34:19.760] And I will run through that window for that guy
[34:19.760 -> 34:22.880] because of his persona, his ability to inspire you,
[34:22.880 -> 34:25.640] his body language, the way that, you know,
[34:25.640 -> 34:26.640] at the end of the football game,
[34:26.640 -> 34:27.600] when he walks on that field,
[34:27.600 -> 34:29.960] every single player smiles when he's approaching.
[34:29.960 -> 34:32.000] They don't just turn a deaf ear to him.
[34:32.000 -> 34:34.280] And that's what I think management's become.
[34:34.280 -> 34:37.320] But I think, and this isn't blowing smoke
[34:37.320 -> 34:38.360] up your backside on this.
[34:38.360 -> 34:40.160] I think you had a moment like that
[34:40.160 -> 34:43.520] after that Cameroon game where you came out
[34:43.520 -> 34:46.600] and it was the most passionate I'd seen you talking about the behavior of the Cameroon game where you came out and it was the most passionate I'd seen you talking about
[34:46.600 -> 34:49.120] the behavior of the Cameroon players
[34:49.120 -> 34:52.360] had fallen some way short of what you expected.
[34:52.360 -> 34:53.520] Do you know what, do you know what?
[34:53.520 -> 34:55.680] The actual, the game before was my best moment
[34:55.680 -> 34:59.440] as a manager was when two of my players' mothers
[34:59.440 -> 35:01.480] had died in the same year.
[35:01.480 -> 35:04.240] One had died, it was her birthday on that day
[35:04.240 -> 35:05.840] and there was another that had died and it was her birthday on that day, and there was another that had died,
[35:05.840 -> 35:08.480] and it was the first ever game she'd played
[35:08.480 -> 35:09.400] in a major tournament,
[35:09.400 -> 35:11.340] and she'd been to four major tournaments.
[35:11.340 -> 35:13.780] And in the huddle after the game,
[35:13.780 -> 35:14.720] we didn't speak football,
[35:14.720 -> 35:19.720] we spoke about the pride in the mother watching from above.
[35:19.760 -> 35:22.520] And I'd say that beyond football and stuff,
[35:22.520 -> 35:24.080] that's the connection that I'd say
[35:24.080 -> 35:27.640] is my best bit of management, is that I knew that them,
[35:27.640 -> 35:29.000] I knew what they were going through.
[35:29.000 -> 35:32.340] Carly, my goalkeeper, had her mum's initials
[35:32.340 -> 35:33.620] and stuff on her wrist.
[35:33.620 -> 35:34.460] She was a goalkeeper.
[35:34.460 -> 35:37.140] She taped her wrist and put a little message from her mum.
[35:37.140 -> 35:40.960] Frank Kirby has suffered a lot from the death of the mother
[35:40.960 -> 35:41.920] years and years ago,
[35:41.920 -> 35:44.040] and that was her mum's birthday that day.
[35:44.040 -> 35:47.040] I actually was thinking of resting her for that game
[35:47.040 -> 35:49.120] and then thought, no, it's her mom's birthday.
[35:49.120 -> 35:51.440] There's gonna be something special happen tonight.
[35:51.440 -> 35:53.440] And that girl has to be on that field.
[35:53.440 -> 35:56.800] And that was probably against my plan three months before
[35:56.800 -> 35:59.080] when I said, second game of the major tournament,
[35:59.080 -> 36:00.600] poorest team was playing,
[36:00.600 -> 36:02.560] we'll rest one of our best players.
[36:02.560 -> 36:04.600] But actually that was a moment where you think,
[36:04.600 -> 36:06.880] hmm, that's a special night for that girl.
[36:06.880 -> 36:08.920] And that girl has to be on that pitch.
[36:08.920 -> 36:10.400] And she has to go through the emotion
[36:10.400 -> 36:12.440] of doing something really special
[36:12.440 -> 36:14.440] for her mother who had been looking down on her.
[36:14.440 -> 36:18.400] And that for me was probably my best bit of management
[36:18.400 -> 36:20.920] in the two years I've been with the Lionesses,
[36:20.920 -> 36:22.200] because I think it was like,
[36:22.200 -> 36:23.480] they felt special, you know,
[36:23.480 -> 36:24.800] because it was more than football.
[36:24.800 -> 36:25.840] And it's an example, isn't it?
[36:25.840 -> 36:29.040] Of, of how much the game has changed, you know, thinking of two previous guests
[36:29.040 -> 36:32.620] that we've had on the podcast, Rio Ferdinand, who said that when Ronaldo's
[36:32.620 -> 36:36.820] dad passed away here at Manchester United, Rio was just thinking, just get
[36:36.820 -> 36:39.960] back here, start training, we've got a game of football to win that kind of
[36:39.960 -> 36:44.060] single, as you've said, single-minded, ruthless desire to win and nothing
[36:44.080 -> 36:48.520] outside football and Man United matters. compare that and Rio's real actually
[36:48.520 -> 36:52.300] admitted on the pod you know I wasn't emotional enough I was kind of almost
[36:52.300 -> 36:55.820] robotic in my desire to win football matches compare that with what you're
[36:55.820 -> 36:59.820] talking about now and the conversations that we had on this podcast with Maurizio
[36:59.820 -> 37:03.620] Pochettino who is you know believes in universal energy and when we were with
[37:03.620 -> 37:05.120] him we all you know he touches you and energy. And when we were with him, we all, you know,
[37:05.120 -> 37:06.800] he sort of touches you and he holds onto you
[37:06.800 -> 37:09.600] for a long period of time and you almost uncomfortably so.
[37:09.600 -> 37:10.720] And you're thinking, what's this about?
[37:10.720 -> 37:14.880] And then he explains, I'm reading you as a person.
[37:14.880 -> 37:15.720] I'm feeding off you.
[37:15.720 -> 37:17.160] I'm understanding you.
[37:17.160 -> 37:22.160] I can work out whether you slept well by your demeanor.
[37:22.520 -> 37:24.680] How different is this conversation
[37:24.680 -> 37:26.280] to the sort of conversations we would have had
[37:26.280 -> 37:28.240] around the world of football 20 years ago?
[37:28.240 -> 37:29.080] It's fascinating.
[37:29.080 -> 37:29.920] You're dead right.
[37:29.920 -> 37:31.720] My father died.
[37:31.720 -> 37:33.880] He went to Australia, I've watched my sister.
[37:33.880 -> 37:36.640] I flew out, turned the machine off,
[37:36.640 -> 37:38.280] flew straight back, went to work the next day
[37:38.280 -> 37:40.600] because that was what I was told to do.
[37:40.600 -> 37:42.280] Not show your emotions, not suffer,
[37:42.280 -> 37:45.720] not have a period of acceptance.
[37:45.720 -> 37:50.480] And I'd say that still to this day, I've probably never really had that ability to actually
[37:50.480 -> 37:51.480] grieve.
[37:51.480 -> 37:55.440] But Sir Alex was, 20 years ago, he was ahead of his time.
[37:55.440 -> 37:59.200] He was Pocicino 20 years ago.
[37:59.200 -> 38:03.200] I went down to, we used to go down to the Cliff Training Ground and he would come down,
[38:03.200 -> 38:08.000] 14 years of age, School of Excellence at night. He would come in, he would know every single parent's
[38:08.000 -> 38:13.440] name and when you've got every club in the country chasing you, your dad's just gone,
[38:13.440 -> 38:16.280] you've got to sign for this guy because he knows that I would play cricket at the weekend
[38:16.280 -> 38:19.920] and he knows that your mum's called Jill and he knows that your grandma and grandma work
[38:19.920 -> 38:26.480] on the car park at Bury football club. That goes beyond systems and tactics. That's somebody that's got the most great
[38:26.480 -> 38:29.200] emotional intelligence that connects with the family.
[38:29.200 -> 38:31.840] And, you know, the stories he used to tell us about
[38:31.840 -> 38:33.480] if you had a problem with a player
[38:33.480 -> 38:35.240] or if you wanted to sign a player,
[38:35.240 -> 38:36.680] meet the mum first.
[38:36.680 -> 38:39.440] Convince the mum that you was going to look after her son.
[38:39.440 -> 38:43.680] And he had that unbelievable ability of, you know,
[38:43.680 -> 38:46.640] getting your first, my first signing on fee.
[38:47.680 -> 38:49.200] You've got to give it to your mum and dad.
[38:49.200 -> 38:50.680] No, no, I want a bike.
[38:50.680 -> 38:51.640] Got to give it to your mum and dad.
[38:51.640 -> 38:54.200] You would not be here today if you did,
[38:54.200 -> 38:57.120] if you didn't have your mum and dad straight home.
[38:57.120 -> 38:58.360] It was funny because me and my brother,
[38:58.360 -> 39:00.320] my mum and dad got two signing on fees,
[39:00.320 -> 39:02.160] but that's what we said to him.
[39:02.160 -> 39:03.480] Can we split ours when we get home?
[39:03.480 -> 39:04.320] We did alright, you know?
[39:04.320 -> 39:05.000] I love it. The Lamborghini was outside the week after. How much of it, Phil? Ond dyna'r hyn rydyn ni wedi ei ddweud i ni, gallwn ni ddifrifo'n ffyrdd? Yn eich gilydd, dwi'n hoffi.
[39:05.000 -> 39:07.000] Y Lombardini oedd y tu allan.
[39:07.000 -> 39:11.000] Dwi'n gwybod bod Chris Casper ar gael ar eich gilydd ar Solford.
[39:11.000 -> 39:15.000] Rydw i wedi clywed Chris ymhelod am y syniad y bydd y ddwyloedd
[39:15.000 -> 39:18.000] y mae pobl yn ymddangos i Sir Alex, ddim yn defnyddio'n aml.
[39:18.000 -> 39:21.000] Roedd y syniad o nad oeddech chi eisiau ei llai.
[39:21.000 -> 39:24.000] Felly, pa mor oeddech chi eisiau ei lai?
[39:24.000 -> 39:25.000] Roedd yna ddiddordeb, yn ddiweddar. him down. So how much of it was just that idea that you just didn't want to let him
[39:25.000 -> 39:26.000] down?
[39:26.000 -> 39:30.480] There was definitely an aura. Still to this day, we went out at Christmas, we went out
[39:30.480 -> 39:38.260] for a meal with him and literally it was after he'd recovered from his operation and stuff.
[39:38.260 -> 39:43.480] And we took him home. I took him home in the car and the lads were in the back seats, Gary
[39:43.480 -> 39:49.600] and Scalzi and Giggsie and Butty. and he was sat in the front seat and literally I was perspiring. I was perspiring.
[39:49.600 -> 39:53.920] He was sat next to me in the front seat. I'm 43 years of age. I'm England women's manager
[39:53.920 -> 39:58.080] and I literally, I'm that stiff I can't turn left or right. And he's going, turn left,
[39:58.080 -> 40:04.000] turn right, turn left. Don't go this way, son. And literally gets out the car and we're all just,
[40:05.880 -> 40:10.960] son and literally gets out the car and we're all just wow thank God for that we got him we got him home in safe peace but he just had a great aura about him
[40:10.960 -> 40:16.280] and I don't think people think of him as being an emotional character they think
[40:16.280 -> 40:19.160] of him as being a hard guy that got the best out of you but I think from what
[40:19.160 -> 40:23.040] you're saying he plugged into the emotions of the players and the players
[40:23.040 -> 40:25.960] families probably long before a lot of other managers do.
[40:25.960 -> 40:29.240] And I think now it almost feels like the norm that you connect on an emotional
[40:29.240 -> 40:30.600] level with your players.
[40:30.600 -> 40:31.360] He did.
[40:31.400 -> 40:34.760] He loved the background of a player, of where they came from,
[40:34.760 -> 40:36.840] what's their upbringing was like,
[40:36.840 -> 40:39.480] because I think it told him a lot about the character of what the player was
[40:39.480 -> 40:40.320] going to be.
[40:40.600 -> 40:43.720] And I suppose it does if you're from a working class background and you've had
[40:43.720 -> 40:46.840] to fight really hard and you've, you know, you've played street soccer.
[40:46.840 -> 40:49.040] It tells you that you've got somebody that's not going to give up.
[40:49.040 -> 40:51.760] It sounds like you do the same though, the way you were talking to your players.
[40:51.760 -> 40:52.520] You have to, you have to.
[40:52.520 -> 40:56.920] And, and, and it's like to get the best out of your players.
[40:56.920 -> 41:01.080] It's so easy just to get a bunch of players into a training ground and say,
[41:01.080 -> 41:04.160] oh, just do this, do that, to actually inspire them.
[41:04.160 -> 41:05.680] When I walked onto a training pitch,
[41:05.680 -> 41:07.360] I wanted to be inspired.
[41:07.360 -> 41:12.360] And we say now to the coaches that every single time
[41:12.480 -> 41:16.080] that you are involved or touch a player,
[41:16.080 -> 41:20.360] a meeting, a bloody video analysis, or a conversation,
[41:20.360 -> 41:22.360] we call it every session's got to be a masterpiece
[41:22.360 -> 41:25.120] because that's how you inspire this generation of players. They want to be inspired. They see so much. has got to be a masterpiece because that's, that's how you inspire the, this generation of play.
[41:25.120 -> 41:25.960] They want to be inspired.
[41:25.960 -> 41:30.360] They see so much, they want to be excited and to, to inspire someone,
[41:30.360 -> 41:32.560] you've got to be in touch with actually what inspires them.
[41:33.080 -> 41:35.600] I'm interested to talk about your son, because I think that you're in a,
[41:35.680 -> 41:38.600] you're in a really interesting position here where your son plays for
[41:38.600 -> 41:40.400] Manchester United at youth level.
[41:40.400 -> 41:45.360] So you are primarily his dad, but also you can see his career through the eyes
[41:45.360 -> 41:48.480] of someone who's done exactly what your son wants to do.
[41:48.480 -> 41:51.660] And as someone who manages young footballers as well.
[41:52.640 -> 41:53.880] It's the balance is amazing.
[41:53.880 -> 41:58.200] How do you manage to inspire your son
[41:58.200 -> 41:59.920] without making him feel overruled,
[41:59.920 -> 42:02.320] without applying too much pressure for him to achieve
[42:02.320 -> 42:04.960] what his dad and his uncle did, which is play for United?
[42:04.960 -> 42:08.640] I think the pressure bit is that I very rarely go and watch him.
[42:08.640 -> 42:12.880] I'll always sit down with him on a Sunday and he always likes to show me his clips
[42:12.880 -> 42:15.240] or go through the game because it's on MUTV.
[42:15.240 -> 42:18.480] That is really important to him, that I sit down with him on a Sunday.
[42:18.480 -> 42:22.160] But in terms of sort of like the going to a Saturday morning game,
[42:22.160 -> 42:23.680] very rarely go and watch him play.
[42:23.680 -> 42:25.000] Is that his decision or yours?
[42:25.000 -> 42:31.320] Mine, because when he goes out onto the pitch, I want people to be looking at him, not me
[42:31.320 -> 42:34.160] in the stand or to be singled out.
[42:34.160 -> 42:36.560] And have you asked him whether that works for him?
[42:36.560 -> 42:40.840] I think he wants me to go and watch him. I really do because his mum goes absolutely
[42:40.840 -> 42:47.080] everywhere with him. She's absolutely obsessed with being there on the sideline when he, when
[42:47.080 -> 42:50.000] he suffers or when he does well, someone to look over to because that's what we
[42:50.000 -> 42:57.440] had, but ultimately, uh, when he was 11, he was, he was at United like satellite
[42:57.440 -> 43:00.560] and, and City asked him to go to their satellite.
[43:00.960 -> 43:04.000] I said, no, straight away over my dead body.
[43:04.000 -> 43:05.840] Are you going into that football club?
[43:05.840 -> 43:11.920] And he said, I'm going. And my dad said the same, can't play for Man City. And then my brother said,
[43:11.920 -> 43:17.120] Phil, you've got to let him create his own pathway. He just said a little flippant comment.
[43:17.120 -> 43:19.920] So I went home and said, what do you want to do? He said, I want to go to Man City. So you go.
[43:20.560 -> 43:29.280] And I actually had more fun going, watching him play for Man City because he wasn't playing for the club that his uncle and his dad played for.
[43:29.280 -> 43:34.520] Then I do now actually watching him play for Manchester United because every time I see him play, I feel the pressure.
[43:34.520 -> 43:36.920] I feel the pressure of what he's thinking.
[43:36.920 -> 43:37.520] And does he?
[43:37.520 -> 43:42.920] I mean, I imagine when he goes into Carrington or wherever, there are pictures of you around the place and pictures of Uncle Harry.
[43:42.920 -> 43:46.400] He never talks about, I've got to say, he never talks about it, never discusses it.
[43:46.400 -> 43:52.240] It was his decision to sign for Manchester United and I do take a step back and sometimes
[43:52.240 -> 43:57.520] he'll say, watch my clips, what do you think? And I've just been brutally honest with him and it's
[43:57.520 -> 44:01.200] the honesty that hopefully will stand him in good stead.
[44:01.200 -> 44:07.380] I guess in some ways the fact that he has to, Phil Son has to deal with this challenge at an early age is no bad thing is it it's kind of
[44:07.380 -> 44:11.040] equipping him for actually what life is like under the spotlight. Yeah very much
[44:11.040 -> 44:14.960] I think I think it sounds like he's in a fascinating position because you've got
[44:14.960 -> 44:19.120] a frame of reference that he knows it's possible to get there he sees the
[44:19.120 -> 44:23.720] evidence every day but then he has to learn his own way of. That's hard as well
[44:23.720 -> 44:26.440] though isn't it because his dad and his uncle did it.
[44:26.440 -> 44:27.840] So if he doesn't do it, that's.
[44:27.960 -> 44:31.600] It's funny because when, when you, obviously in the academy system, you get
[44:31.600 -> 44:36.320] reviews and some of the things that they tell me that he's done surprised me
[44:36.320 -> 44:40.480] because he comes home, he doesn't give much away, he goes up to his room and he
[44:40.480 -> 44:42.720] is literally just forging his own career.
[44:42.760 -> 44:46.240] But ultimately when, when he ultimately when he's overcome obstacles,
[44:46.240 -> 44:51.280] he was in Spain for three years playing in a totally different type of culture,
[44:51.760 -> 44:55.440] tippy-tappy football, different way of coaching.
[44:55.440 -> 45:00.120] They come to England, it took him six months and he kept sticking with it.
[45:00.200 -> 45:01.160] He kept sticking with it.
[45:01.160 -> 45:04.880] And he's come out the other side now a lot tougher mentally.
[45:05.000 -> 45:09.000] There's many of a footballer that's not going to make it.
[45:09.000 -> 45:14.000] But what I always say to him is that if you keep these values, you'll be successful.
[45:14.000 -> 45:19.000] Whether that's at Manchester United or at MK Dawns or as a fitness coach,
[45:19.000 -> 45:23.000] whatever you want to be, you will be successful if you just keep these values.
[45:23.000 -> 45:26.320] And that's the only thing I hold him to.
[45:26.320 -> 45:28.000] When Jake mentioned in his introduction,
[45:28.000 -> 45:29.720] you've got a fascinating perspective
[45:29.720 -> 45:32.680] from a range of different cultures and different teams.
[45:32.680 -> 45:36.080] So how universal are some of these values,
[45:36.080 -> 45:38.680] whether it's from your experience in Spain
[45:38.680 -> 45:42.800] or now coaching women's football,
[45:42.800 -> 45:46.360] how universal are these values you're describing?
[45:46.360 -> 45:49.160] The universal thing is, is that the values work
[45:49.160 -> 45:51.700] in every facet of everything that I've been involved in.
[45:51.700 -> 45:55.520] And even in business, even at Salford City now,
[45:55.520 -> 45:58.300] you know, we're talking about even this hotel,
[45:58.300 -> 46:02.360] you're talking about the main feedback we get at this hotel
[46:02.360 -> 46:04.840] is that people say, hello, how are you?
[46:04.840 -> 46:05.880] They know the name of the customer.
[46:05.880 -> 46:07.360] That was the first thing we said,
[46:07.360 -> 46:09.560] know the name of every customer that comes into this building.
[46:09.560 -> 46:11.160] If you've booked a room, when they come in,
[46:11.160 -> 46:14.120] you've got to know their name and where they've come from.
[46:14.120 -> 46:17.040] It's a basic thing, but it's a big thing.
[46:17.040 -> 46:19.080] And that has stood us in good stead.
[46:19.080 -> 46:20.760] Sometimes we overcomplicate things.
[46:20.760 -> 46:22.400] Sometimes we look too deep into things
[46:22.400 -> 46:25.400] when actually high performance is really simple.
[46:25.640 -> 46:28.560] You know, you look at the best and biggest athletes, the best
[46:28.560 -> 46:31.080] and biggest companies, they keep it really simple.
[46:31.080 -> 46:35.200] They have real strong cultural values and they stick to those
[46:35.200 -> 46:37.480] values and they measure themselves against those values.
[46:37.480 -> 46:40.600] So when, when we, we drew up a new set of values at the start
[46:40.600 -> 46:43.880] of the season, it's the only thing I hold the team accountable
[46:43.880 -> 46:45.960] for anything outside of that is my fault.
[46:46.080 -> 46:46.240] Yeah.
[46:46.280 -> 46:50.240] But the values that, and they wrote them themselves, not me, that I wanted them to
[46:50.240 -> 46:52.320] write them and took about a month to do.
[46:52.320 -> 46:53.160] They presented them.
[46:53.320 -> 46:53.800] So right.
[46:54.200 -> 46:57.360] So anyone steps out of line now, we'll just, we'll put them up on the wall and
[46:57.360 -> 46:58.920] we'll hold you accountable to those values.
[46:58.960 -> 47:00.560] Everyone on board, easy.
[47:00.760 -> 47:03.440] And that makes coaching easy as well, because you don't have to get them into
[47:03.440 -> 47:08.200] line and say, well, you didn't tell me that you get the charter out you get the values out
[47:08.200 -> 47:12.880] and you hold yourself accountable for the values that you want to instill.
[47:12.880 -> 47:17.200] How is your relationship with failure? How hard are you on yourself? Do you actively
[47:17.200 -> 47:22.320] seek failure because it means that you know you're at the at the point of learning?
[47:22.320 -> 47:27.440] The one thing that I've always before you go into a game or you go into a coaching a game
[47:27.440 -> 47:29.280] or you'd be going to a big moment,
[47:29.280 -> 47:31.600] my mind thinks about the failure
[47:31.600 -> 47:33.520] because that's the thing that kicks me on
[47:33.520 -> 47:34.920] to not failing in a way.
[47:34.920 -> 47:38.720] And I always go through a process of thinking,
[47:38.720 -> 47:40.920] if this goes drastically wrong today,
[47:40.920 -> 47:42.560] what are the consequences?
[47:42.560 -> 47:44.280] And then you think about like,
[47:44.280 -> 47:45.200] how are you going to handle that?
[47:45.200 -> 47:48.200] But actually I use that as a sort of like motivational tool.
[47:48.200 -> 47:51.200] Sir Alex, the minute you came into the dressing room after a game,
[47:51.200 -> 47:52.600] you've moved on to the next one.
[47:52.600 -> 47:55.400] So you didn't allow any time for moping.
[47:55.400 -> 47:59.400] There's a psychologist called Gary Klein that talks about this idea of premortems,
[47:59.400 -> 48:03.000] where if you work out what can kill you before you at the event,
[48:03.000 -> 48:05.200] you can then work out how you're going to handle the moment
[48:05.200 -> 48:07.280] when it happens, which it sounds very much
[48:07.280 -> 48:09.520] what you were doing, that you were working out.
[48:09.520 -> 48:11.360] What are the consequences of failure here?
[48:11.360 -> 48:12.240] Can I live with it?
[48:12.240 -> 48:14.320] And then that way, when it happens, you can move on.
[48:14.320 -> 48:16.880] It's like, I think about the worst thing that can happen
[48:16.880 -> 48:20.240] or defeat and think, right, so I worked that hard now.
[48:20.240 -> 48:21.120] It's never going to happen.
[48:21.120 -> 48:24.080] So, so it almost use it as a motivation, never to go there.
[48:24.080 -> 48:25.400] Yeah. Never to go there because you know what? I'm not going to like that feeling at all. So, so it almost use it as a motivation never to go there. Never to go there because you know what?
[48:25.400 -> 48:27.280] I'm not going to like that feeling at all.
[48:27.280 -> 48:28.120] So, you know what?
[48:28.120 -> 48:29.480] I'm going to work my damned hardest today
[48:29.480 -> 48:31.040] to make sure I don't have that feeling.
[48:31.040 -> 48:31.920] And...
[48:31.920 -> 48:34.200] Have you ever taken your foot off the gas
[48:34.200 -> 48:36.360] to the point where you go into a situation
[48:36.360 -> 48:38.360] and you fear you haven't worked hard enough?
[48:38.360 -> 48:39.680] You haven't prepared well enough?
[48:39.680 -> 48:42.200] Once, once at Manchester United,
[48:42.200 -> 48:54.000] we played a pre-Champions League qualifier and I played all pre-season and we went, we're playing out in Hungary.
[48:54.600 -> 48:58.640] He named the team in the morning, Stralix, and I wasn't in it.
[48:58.640 -> 49:01.080] We played West Brown and I was devastated.
[49:01.120 -> 49:06.840] The only time I've ever been affected by selection, the only time I've ever not really had that,
[49:06.840 -> 49:07.960] just get on with it, Phil.
[49:07.960 -> 49:09.960] I remember going back to my room.
[49:09.960 -> 49:11.720] I didn't have my normal pre-match meal.
[49:11.720 -> 49:13.920] I ate more than probably what I normally would do.
[49:13.920 -> 49:15.560] I then went back to my room.
[49:15.560 -> 49:16.760] I was on the phone all afternoon
[49:16.760 -> 49:18.240] when I'd normally have a two, two and a half hour,
[49:18.240 -> 49:19.440] three hours sleep.
[49:19.440 -> 49:21.880] I watched television, came down to pre-match,
[49:21.880 -> 49:24.000] didn't have my normal pre-match meal.
[49:24.000 -> 49:25.900] I've got to say, I didn't wear my lucky boxer shorts
[49:25.900 -> 49:27.900] I I'd gone in a way
[49:28.440 -> 49:31.360] To miss since the game West Brown breaks his ankle I go on to the pitch
[49:31.800 -> 49:34.400] Play the game last minute the game ball comes over miss the ball
[49:34.400 -> 49:37.720] They scored we lose 1-0 and I never forget Roy Keane
[49:38.060 -> 49:42.700] Running down the tunnel just having a go at me and I'll remember just not hearing a word just thinking I
[49:43.120 -> 49:46.480] Deserve it and and that was the biggest kick up the backside I've ever had.
[49:46.480 -> 49:48.440] And a brilliant bit of learning for you as well.
[49:48.440 -> 49:48.800] Unbelievable.
[49:48.800 -> 49:49.600] How old were you at the time?
[49:49.880 -> 49:51.840] I was 24, 25.
[49:51.840 -> 49:53.760] And you're now 43.
[49:53.800 -> 49:55.120] So that's 20 years ago.
[49:55.120 -> 49:55.520] Yeah.
[49:55.640 -> 49:57.080] And you haven't done it since.
[49:57.080 -> 49:59.320] I mean, talk about learning from your mistakes.
[49:59.320 -> 49:59.760] Never.
[49:59.920 -> 50:03.880] I remember the ball, I'll never forget the ball coming over and whether I had the third
[50:03.880 -> 50:05.120] bread roll in my pre-match,
[50:05.120 -> 50:07.520] I couldn't get off my feet, but it just would skin my head.
[50:07.520 -> 50:10.480] Guy went through his guard and we won the replay.
[50:10.480 -> 50:13.600] We run the second leg, but that was like,
[50:13.600 -> 50:15.400] I never forget Wes Brown going down.
[50:15.400 -> 50:16.240] I was on the bench.
[50:16.240 -> 50:17.760] I was a bit of a sulk on.
[50:17.760 -> 50:19.120] He went down, broken ankle.
[50:19.120 -> 50:22.160] And I went, oh no, I'm in trouble here.
[50:22.160 -> 50:25.280] I'd like to just go through a few periods in your career
[50:25.280 -> 50:27.840] just to find your biggest bit of learning from those.
[50:27.840 -> 50:28.680] Very simple.
[50:28.680 -> 50:30.600] The biggest sort of bit of learning you took away
[50:30.600 -> 50:32.600] from your time at Manchester United.
[50:32.600 -> 50:34.120] I think the biggest thing was,
[50:34.120 -> 50:37.200] is that there is actually life away from Manchester United.
[50:37.200 -> 50:41.080] That was the biggest learning because it was,
[50:41.080 -> 50:44.880] and still is the biggest part of sort of like our family.
[50:44.880 -> 50:45.400] We're Reds.
[50:45.400 -> 50:47.800] We're, they lose, we lose.
[50:47.800 -> 50:51.400] And when I left driving down the East Lanks road,
[50:51.400 -> 50:53.600] I was like, I thought it was it.
[50:53.600 -> 50:54.600] I thought it was the end of the world.
[50:54.600 -> 50:58.000] And then I realized actually there is another world out there.
[50:58.000 -> 51:01.200] And actually it made me a better person and it made me more rounded
[51:01.200 -> 51:04.400] and it made me grow up more and more mature because dear me,
[51:04.400 -> 51:07.240] these Sir Alex just put a blanket around you
[51:07.240 -> 51:09.240] and just protected you.
[51:09.240 -> 51:10.920] And I think if I hadn't left United,
[51:10.920 -> 51:13.520] I wouldn't have gone to Valencia.
[51:13.520 -> 51:15.520] If I hadn't left United, I wouldn't have done
[51:15.520 -> 51:17.920] the women's job because I think it just,
[51:17.920 -> 51:20.280] it was like, if I grew going to Everton,
[51:20.280 -> 51:21.120] pwah, dear me.
[51:21.120 -> 51:22.720] So the biggest bit of learning almost at United
[51:22.720 -> 51:23.560] was when you left?
[51:23.560 -> 51:24.380] Left, yeah.
[51:24.380 -> 51:25.200] Wow. And then when you went into Everton, what was the biggest learning there? I was United was when you left? Left, yeah. Wow.
[51:25.200 -> 51:27.600] And then when you went into Everton, what was the biggest learning there?
[51:27.600 -> 51:31.400] I was on the phone with John Ruddy, the Wolves keeper this morning, and he said, Oh, I love
[51:31.400 -> 51:32.400] that you've got Phil on.
[51:32.400 -> 51:34.840] I'd love to know when he decided to get into management.
[51:34.840 -> 51:37.760] Because when he was at Everton with us, it was like he was already a manager.
[51:37.760 -> 51:39.000] First in, last out.
[51:39.000 -> 51:40.760] He'll be perfect for your podcast.
[51:40.760 -> 51:42.840] So obviously you did impact those players.
[51:42.840 -> 51:44.360] He still remembers your dedication.
[51:44.360 -> 51:45.920] The biggest influence was David Moyes.
[51:45.920 -> 51:48.600] David Moyes was like, it's your dressing room.
[51:48.600 -> 51:50.560] This is what I want you to do.
[51:50.560 -> 51:53.440] And third game in, he made me captain.
[51:53.440 -> 51:55.200] And I remember, please don't make me captain.
[51:55.480 -> 51:56.080] It's too early.
[51:56.080 -> 51:57.040] Just let me have 12 months.
[51:57.040 -> 52:01.800] Like, and the dressing room was like, teacher's pet, Moyes' little boy.
[52:02.240 -> 52:03.080] Oh, he's coming here.
[52:03.080 -> 52:05.320] He's in his little grass and all this business.
[52:05.320 -> 52:07.820] And he was firm.
[52:07.820 -> 52:09.600] I've come in here and I'm gonna change something
[52:09.600 -> 52:11.440] and you're gonna be the one that polices that dressing room
[52:11.440 -> 52:12.800] and drives that dressing room.
[52:12.800 -> 52:15.940] And his belief in me was incredible.
[52:15.940 -> 52:17.320] From the minute I walked in,
[52:17.320 -> 52:20.240] or as I say, the minute that actually he asked my father
[52:20.240 -> 52:23.440] for me to sign, then from even to this day,
[52:23.440 -> 52:26.800] his belief in me has been unbreakable.
[52:26.800 -> 52:33.800] From the time he took me to United as a coach, the trust he'd given me was probably like no other coach has given me.
[52:33.800 -> 52:36.600] And I think that was massive for me, I think.
[52:36.600 -> 52:39.600] Biggest learning from the time at Valencia?
[52:39.600 -> 52:44.000] I think the biggest learning was how to treat people that wasn't part of your inner circle,
[52:44.000 -> 52:46.880] how to make them feel, how to make them part of your group,
[52:46.880 -> 52:50.080] and actually to be honest with people.
[52:50.080 -> 52:52.080] Even if it's bad news, they'll have more respect for you
[52:52.080 -> 52:54.200] than to just stringing them along.
[52:54.200 -> 52:55.280] And that was my biggest learning
[52:55.280 -> 52:57.240] because it was the best probably learning period
[52:57.240 -> 53:00.520] of my career in terms of sort of like the management side,
[53:00.520 -> 53:03.520] because it was a time when I was assistant at United,
[53:03.520 -> 53:06.600] assistant at Valencia, then I took Valencia for two games
[53:06.600 -> 53:08.880] and then my whole life changed because I thought I can never be
[53:08.880 -> 53:09.920] assistant ever again.
[53:10.280 -> 53:11.920] I've been in a dressing room when they all looked at me and
[53:11.920 -> 53:12.520] I loved it.
[53:12.520 -> 53:14.840] And I wanted to be on that touchline being the man.
[53:15.200 -> 53:18.000] And I actually thought that is where I want to be, not behind
[53:18.000 -> 53:18.400] the man.
[53:18.400 -> 53:20.560] So that was my biggest thing.
[53:20.680 -> 53:22.440] And finally, with the lionesses.
[53:22.720 -> 53:28.880] I was speaking to somebody last night about the Black Lives movement at this moment in
[53:28.880 -> 53:35.520] time is that until you've lived in the shoes, you'd never know how they're going to feel.
[53:35.520 -> 53:42.600] And I went into the women's job and my sister, my sister used to say all this and that and
[53:42.600 -> 53:44.480] used to say, get on with it.
[53:44.480 -> 53:45.280] You'll be all right. Oh, you were on, get on with it, you'll be all right.
[53:45.280 -> 53:47.720] Or you were on the telly last week, you'll be all right.
[53:47.720 -> 53:49.540] And then when you're actually living in the shoes
[53:49.540 -> 53:53.380] of a female athlete, you think this is not right.
[53:53.380 -> 53:58.120] That the prejudice, the homophobia, the sexism,
[53:58.120 -> 54:03.120] the lack of equality, every single day is a fight.
[54:03.200 -> 54:06.000] You fight like you possibly can to make things
[54:06.000 -> 54:10.920] better for a group of girls that are the most unbelievable group of people I've ever been
[54:10.920 -> 54:15.020] involved in all my life. When I was a footballer, my sister used to come home from these camps
[54:15.020 -> 54:18.800] and she used to go to training on a Sunday morning in East Grinstead, three hours there,
[54:18.800 -> 54:23.120] three hours back. Oh, well done. How are you doing? Good session. But actually you look
[54:23.120 -> 54:30.000] back now and think how ignorant, ignorant was me and my brother to like, actually what she was going through.
[54:30.000 -> 54:33.920] Why didn't we put a drive around for her? You know, why don't we put a drive around for her?
[54:33.920 -> 54:39.280] Why, why don't we, why don't we fund, fund something a little bit better back then
[54:40.320 -> 54:45.160] than now getting now? And I can actually sort of like relate now to people saying,
[54:45.160 -> 54:46.600] oh, we've made great strides.
[54:46.600 -> 54:48.020] Oh, we're doing okay.
[54:48.020 -> 54:51.920] Still, my girls are fighting every single day now.
[54:51.920 -> 54:53.600] We were winning, for two years,
[54:53.600 -> 54:55.800] we were beginning to break down barriers.
[54:55.800 -> 54:57.720] I think we've took a massive step back now
[54:57.720 -> 54:59.520] and people have forgot female sport,
[54:59.520 -> 55:01.280] no netball, no hockey,
[55:01.280 -> 55:03.660] no female sport played for the last three to four months.
[55:03.660 -> 55:09.160] Not even on the agenda of any boardroomroom in any sport, in any industry.
[55:09.160 -> 55:11.920] To change that, you're going to have to change at the top.
[55:11.920 -> 55:15.680] You're going to have to get females, you're going to have to get black people on the boards
[55:15.680 -> 55:17.520] before it starts infiltrating down.
[55:17.520 -> 55:20.400] So it's been the biggest learning experience ever.
[55:20.400 -> 55:26.560] When in my first camp, normally when you get a new player and you sing a song and everyone films it,
[55:26.560 -> 55:29.360] they stand up there and they speak about their career,
[55:29.360 -> 55:30.720] their life, their obstacles.
[55:30.720 -> 55:32.120] And literally there was one girl,
[55:32.120 -> 55:34.120] Abi McManus, I'll never forget.
[55:34.120 -> 55:35.840] She stood up there, she told the journey.
[55:35.840 -> 55:37.240] I had tears in my eyes.
[55:37.240 -> 55:38.660] She was a kit lady.
[55:38.660 -> 55:40.240] Then she got changed and went out onto the pitch,
[55:40.240 -> 55:42.200] then came back in and washed everyone's kit.
[55:42.200 -> 55:44.440] And I was like, that didn't happen.
[55:44.440 -> 55:45.320] Do you know what I mean?
[55:45.320 -> 55:46.600] But we were ignorant to all that.
[55:46.600 -> 55:49.280] So now when obviously I'm coming to the end of my time
[55:49.280 -> 55:50.640] with the lionesses, I'm thinking,
[55:50.640 -> 55:54.080] I'm not finished with promoting female sports
[55:54.080 -> 55:55.100] and women's athletes.
[55:55.100 -> 55:56.120] And people say now,
[55:56.120 -> 55:57.640] oh, you're going to jump back into the men's game.
[55:57.640 -> 56:00.120] No, no, actually that's not a foregone conclusion
[56:00.120 -> 56:03.480] because if you've coached that type of player,
[56:03.480 -> 56:05.800] it's probably better than coaching a male player at times
[56:05.800 -> 56:07.360] because you're not, they listen, they learn,
[56:07.360 -> 56:11.880] they want to get better and their attitudes are phenomenal.
[56:11.880 -> 56:14.760] So Phil, we normally do a quick fire round at the end.
[56:14.760 -> 56:17.080] So what are the three non-negotiable behaviours
[56:17.080 -> 56:19.880] that you and the people around you must buy into?
[56:19.880 -> 56:24.800] Hard work, enjoyment and please and thank yous.
[56:24.800 -> 56:27.060] What advice would you give to a teenage Phil,
[56:27.060 -> 56:28.640] just starting out?
[56:28.640 -> 56:31.480] Enjoying it a bit more, just relax a bit.
[56:31.480 -> 56:32.420] Have you learned that now?
[56:32.420 -> 56:34.160] Yeah, enjoy it a bit more,
[56:34.160 -> 56:36.580] that there is more to life than just,
[56:36.580 -> 56:38.560] obviously playing football for Manchester United
[56:38.560 -> 56:40.200] or being a professional footballer.
[56:40.200 -> 56:41.800] Are you happy?
[56:41.800 -> 56:43.400] Yeah, always happy.
[56:43.400 -> 56:45.000] How important is legacy to you? I think it's important. Whenever you leave? Yeah, always happy. How important is legacy to you?
[56:45.000 -> 56:52.000] I think it's important. Whenever you leave a job, you want to leave something behind that will make people think,
[56:52.000 -> 56:58.000] you know what, he improved us. When I've played or been managed by great coaches, the first thing I think of,
[56:58.000 -> 57:03.000] Moise, what a guy. Charlie X Ferguson, he phoned me when my dad died, he was there when my grandma,
[57:03.000 -> 57:05.440] you know, he came to my wedding.
[57:05.440 -> 57:07.560] Being a good person is the most important thing.
[57:07.560 -> 57:09.160] And what's your one golden rule
[57:09.160 -> 57:11.800] for people to live a high performance life, Phil?
[57:11.800 -> 57:13.120] I think you've got to commit.
[57:13.120 -> 57:16.520] I think you've got to commit to doing the absolute best
[57:16.520 -> 57:17.840] you can every single minute of every day.
[57:17.840 -> 57:20.760] I think that for me is the one thing,
[57:20.760 -> 57:23.640] is that you've got to do everything that you do
[57:23.640 -> 57:25.120] of every single minute of every single day
[57:26.000 -> 57:29.760] to the best of your ability. Listen, thank you so much for being on the podcast. One of the stand
[57:29.760 -> 57:34.960] out things for me is that it's so interesting. You came from a family where both you and your
[57:34.960 -> 57:39.600] brother and Tracy all ended up living and competing in a high performance life and
[57:39.600 -> 57:44.640] whatever it was that your mom and your dad did, which we've spoken about, it absolutely worked.
[57:44.640 -> 57:46.680] And I think there'll be a lot of people listening to this
[57:46.680 -> 57:49.280] who will have their kids in the gym at 5.30
[57:49.280 -> 57:51.320] every morning before school.
[57:51.320 -> 57:52.820] Seeing where at least they're learning.
[57:52.820 -> 57:54.160] Absolutely, but thank you so much
[57:54.160 -> 57:56.640] for taking the time to join us on High Performance.
[57:56.640 -> 57:57.480] Thank you.
[57:59.600 -> 58:00.440] So, Damien.
[58:00.440 -> 58:01.580] Jake.
[58:01.580 -> 58:03.560] You know what stands out for me there is
[58:03.560 -> 58:05.760] he is a guy who has managed to
[58:08.640 -> 58:12.440] Create this mindset where he's going to achieve big things But he's going to do it by focusing on the little steps and that is a brilliant takeaway for anyone
[58:12.440 -> 58:19.040] Oh, yeah, the process will always trump outcome that if we only get focused on our final destination
[58:19.040 -> 58:21.320] We can often trip and fall along the way
[58:21.480 -> 58:25.240] Whereas like you say this idea of focusing on the small steps
[58:25.240 -> 58:26.880] keeps everything controllable and gives you
[58:26.880 -> 58:29.880] a constant sense of momentum and progress.
[58:29.880 -> 58:31.840] And I don't know about you, but one of the big things
[58:31.840 -> 58:34.400] for me, and I'm not sure I'll be able to implement it
[58:34.400 -> 58:36.880] with my two kids, is this idea of, as a family,
[58:36.880 -> 58:39.600] going to the gym before breakfast in the mornings.
[58:39.600 -> 58:41.280] I mean, that is a remarkable thing to get your kids
[58:41.280 -> 58:44.040] to do for a start, but it absolutely will instill
[58:44.040 -> 58:50.400] in those children a work ethic and obviously his dad had a big impact on him and his sister
[58:50.400 -> 58:54.120] and his brother and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he has a similar impact on his children.
[58:54.120 -> 58:58.360] Yeah, I think it was a really interesting point that we were talking about, about that
[58:58.360 -> 59:01.520] his children have a very different life than what he would have grown up with and maybe
[59:01.520 -> 59:06.640] grown up with more privilege or more opportunities than what he would have necessarily had. But a beth byddai wedi'i fwyno gyda, a efallai yn fwy cyfrifol, neu mwy o gyfleoedd, a beth byddai wedi'i gael.
[59:06.640 -> 59:09.320] Ond rwy'n credu, fel dweudwch, y sylwad o'r ymdrech,
[59:09.320 -> 59:10.800] mae'n rhaid i chi i gyd ddod i mewn a gweithio'n anodd,
[59:10.800 -> 59:14.560] mae'n rhaid i chi i gyd wneud y cyfnodau, mae'n rhaid i chi i gyd ymwneud â
[59:14.560 -> 59:17.160] oedd rhywbeth y byddai'r sesiwn ymdrech y teulu
[59:17.160 -> 59:20.880] yn ymdrech yr holl ardalau yna sydd wedi'i wneud yn llwyddiannus.
[59:20.880 -> 59:23.160] Ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn mynd i fod yn llwyddiannus
[59:23.160 -> 59:26.660] oherwydd dyma'n dod o'r blaen o'r blant ac yna fe wnaeth e chwarae ar un o'r rheini mwy llwyddiannus y byddwch chi'n gwbod. successful. And I think he is going to go on to be successful because this stems right from childhood and then he played under one of the most successful
[59:26.660 -> 59:30.620] managers in the world. He's got a great sounding board I'm sure in his brother
[59:30.620 -> 59:35.260] Gary, he's now managed for his country, he understands a modern athlete. I think
[59:35.260 -> 59:38.300] the Phil Neville story is far from over actually. Yeah and I think what really
[59:38.300 -> 59:42.900] impressed me with Phil was his innate intelligence, not only to have had
[59:42.900 -> 59:48.540] those experiences but to have reflected on them and to take the important lessons from it.
[59:48.540 -> 59:55.500] Well, once again, Damien, really nice to sort of sit and listen back to what Phil had to
[59:55.500 -> 59:59.500] say. We've got loads of comments coming in to us after people had the episode last week.
[59:59.500 -> 01:00:04.260] Are you happy to dive straight into the digital post bag as it is these days?
[01:00:04.260 -> 01:00:08.000] Absolutely. Yeah. I'm really interested to hear what people are saying.
[01:00:08.000 -> 01:00:12.000] All right, well there's one here actually. This works quite nicely because you know how Phil
[01:00:12.000 -> 01:00:16.000] constantly talks about processes and steps to achieving great things?
[01:00:16.000 -> 01:00:20.000] This is a message that's come in to us from Joe Batten and he says,
[01:00:20.000 -> 01:00:24.000] the latest High Performance podcast was excellent. I loved the message that the key
[01:00:24.000 -> 01:00:27.000] is in the details and that rather than a philosophy as such,
[01:00:27.000 -> 01:00:29.980] saying, if we attack this way, we'll defend like this,
[01:00:29.980 -> 01:00:32.180] shows great adaptability and trust in players.
[01:00:32.180 -> 01:00:34.320] I think that maybe he was listening to
[01:00:34.320 -> 01:00:37.920] the Sean Dyche episode that we had as part of series one.
[01:00:37.920 -> 01:00:39.880] But I think the key for me in that is that
[01:00:39.880 -> 01:00:42.360] sometimes it's kind of hard for us to hear people
[01:00:42.360 -> 01:00:44.440] talk about an overarching philosophy
[01:00:44.440 -> 01:00:50.000] or a belief and things, but then you don't have any idea how to get there.
[01:00:50.000 -> 01:00:53.920] So when someone talks about little processes and little steps, I think that's a really
[01:00:53.920 -> 01:00:57.160] important message that that's all it is for everyone, little steps.
[01:00:57.160 -> 01:01:02.000] Yeah, I think that that is a really good point there from that listener that's been kind
[01:01:02.000 -> 01:01:03.720] enough to share that feedback.
[01:01:03.720 -> 01:01:10.240] I think what this format is really good and it sort of opened my eyes is that rather than pwysicau da yno o'r ddarlithydd sydd wedi bod yn ddiolchgar i rannu'r cymorth. Rwy'n credu y bydd y fformat hwn yn dda iawn ac mae'n ddewis fy nghyfnod yw y byddai'r ysgolion hyn yn
[01:01:10.240 -> 01:01:14.880] rhaid i'r dynion ddangos unrhyw ddynion neu'n gysylltu'n unig am ychydig munud, ry'n ni'n rhoi'r
[01:01:14.880 -> 01:01:20.480] rhan iddo, ac efallai'r amser i ddangos eu ffilosofi. A chyfieichwch bod
[01:01:20.480 -> 01:01:25.240] llawer ohonyn nhw, efallai fod llawer ohonyn nhw yn ddangos deunydd, ond maen nhw'n ddiolchgar i rannu that so many of them, a lot of it might sound like common sense, but they're happy to share
[01:01:25.240 -> 01:01:29.120] the common practice of how they've made it a reality for them.
[01:01:29.120 -> 01:01:33.880] And I get feedback of people that say they love that level of detail and the subtlety
[01:01:33.880 -> 01:01:34.960] and the nuance of it.
[01:01:34.960 -> 01:01:38.560] So I'm delighted that other people are recognizing that.
[01:01:38.560 -> 01:01:42.400] And I'm pretty sure that in one of your books, I've seen a diagram where you've got a straight
[01:01:42.400 -> 01:01:45.560] line from A to B, and then you've got exactly
[01:01:45.560 -> 01:01:49.320] the same distance from A to B, but it looks like a stairway, like steps.
[01:01:49.320 -> 01:01:54.080] And I think sometimes it can be so daunting for people who want to be here or yeah, who
[01:01:54.080 -> 01:01:58.840] want to be there, but they're here and they kind of see it as one leap from A to B. Whereas
[01:01:58.840 -> 01:02:02.360] what we have to try and do, I guess, and you can probably explain this in better detail
[01:02:02.360 -> 01:02:05.840] than me is, is break that a hundred yards into a hundred steps rather than one, one leap. Ie, felly mae'r ffordd i feddwl amdanyn nhw yw, pan fyddwn yn meddwl am ymrwymo'r ffyrdd, mae'r cyflawni yn y cyflawni'r golf o'r
[01:02:05.840 -> 01:02:08.080] mynyddoedd a'r hyrwyddo a'r gynhyrchu yn mynd yno.
[01:02:08.080 -> 01:02:11.200] Mae'r ffyrdd o weithio ynglyn â'n pethau fel
[01:02:11.200 -> 01:02:14.240] pa mor gyflym rydym yn mynd i gael yno, pa mor eang yw hynny,
[01:02:14.240 -> 01:02:16.800] pa gynnyrch y byddwn yn ei angen ac y bydd yr holl bethau sy'n
[01:02:16.800 -> 01:02:20.480] meddwl o'r ffordd sy'n bwysig yw'r golygu'r proses, ac mae'n
[01:02:20.480 -> 01:02:24.320] ymwneud â'r cyflawni, ac mae'r cyflawni yn y golf a'r
[01:02:24.320 -> 01:02:29.680] cyflawni yn y golf a'r cyflawni yn y golf a'r cyflawni yn y golf a'r cyflawni things like how fast we're going to get there, how high is it, what equipment we need and all measurable things. But the bit that is really important is the process goals. And
[01:02:29.680 -> 01:02:33.720] this is just the, what's the first step you're going to take? What's the next step? And it's
[01:02:33.720 -> 01:02:38.480] about breaking it down into those small processes of putting one foot in front of the other.
[01:02:38.480 -> 01:02:42.640] And if you do enough of that, it hits your performance and you'll get the outcome that
[01:02:42.640 -> 01:02:48.800] you desire. So we need all three types of goal setting, outcome, performance and process. And I'm
[01:02:48.800 -> 01:02:52.200] actually a real big believer in making sure you enjoy the process as well. One
[01:02:52.200 -> 01:02:55.400] of the phrases I use all the time whether it's on the on the telly or in
[01:02:55.400 -> 01:02:58.880] front of my kids is is savour it and I think sometimes that can sound a little
[01:02:58.880 -> 01:03:02.680] bit trite can't it and a bit like oh savour it but what it actually means is
[01:03:02.680 -> 01:03:05.060] like if you want to achieve something,
[01:03:05.060 -> 01:03:08.320] you're going to spend a hell of a lot longer getting to that goal. If it's something that's
[01:03:08.320 -> 01:03:12.880] hard to achieve, then you are arriving there. You know, the process can take years and years
[01:03:12.880 -> 01:03:18.280] and years. And I think if we don't get ourselves into a place of enjoying the journey, then
[01:03:18.280 -> 01:03:22.080] we've missed out on a whole experience of what high performance can be.
[01:03:22.080 -> 01:03:26.000] Yeah. And you know, like, I'm sure you rydych chi'n gwybod, rwy'n siŵr eich bod chi'n y mhob
[01:03:26.000 -> 01:03:27.000] fel i mi ar y jesd hwn,
[01:03:27.000 -> 01:03:28.000] ein bod ni'n cymryd pobl
[01:03:28.000 -> 01:03:29.000] sy'n gallu gwneud ffortunydd,
[01:03:29.000 -> 01:03:31.000] neu maen nhw wedi gynnal medalau gwyllt,
[01:03:31.000 -> 01:03:33.000] neu maen nhw wedi cyrraedd cymorth gwirioneddol,
[01:03:33.000 -> 01:03:35.000] ac yna maen nhw'n siŵr yn siarad am
[01:03:35.000 -> 01:03:36.000] y cyflawni'r amser honno,
[01:03:36.000 -> 01:03:37.000] unwaith y gwnes i'w gael,
[01:03:37.000 -> 01:03:38.000] unwaith y gwnes i gael £1,000,000
[01:03:38.000 -> 01:03:39.000] yn y bank.
[01:03:39.000 -> 01:03:40.000] Y cwestiwn yw,
[01:03:40.000 -> 01:03:41.000] wel, beth yw'r nesaf?
[01:03:41.000 -> 01:03:42.000] Ac felly,
[01:03:42.000 -> 01:03:44.000] y dynion o gynlluniau o ddewis,
[01:03:44.000 -> 01:03:46.120] os yw hynny'n all y gwnes i, rydyn ni'n ymwneud â'r heddonig treadmill The question is, well, what's next? And so the fleeting element of outcome goals, if that's all we ever seek,
[01:03:46.120 -> 01:03:49.360] we're on what's called the hedonic treadmill,
[01:03:49.360 -> 01:03:51.640] that we're constantly just chasing the next hit,
[01:03:51.640 -> 01:03:53.920] the next achievement, rather than enjoying,
[01:03:53.920 -> 01:03:57.360] like you say, the journey of embracing the grind
[01:03:57.360 -> 01:03:59.720] of the everyday stuff that gets us there.
[01:03:59.720 -> 01:04:00.560] Love it.
[01:04:00.560 -> 01:04:02.660] Thanks to Jason Keane for sending in a message
[01:04:02.660 -> 01:04:07.180] to say he's been inspired by the High Performance podcast and that this is the big stuff.
[01:04:07.180 -> 01:04:10.340] It took a few seconds off his run this week listening to Chris Hoy.
[01:04:10.340 -> 01:04:15.120] That's what we know we're having.
[01:04:15.120 -> 01:04:18.640] Customer success, Matt says, really wasn't sure I was going to enjoy this one, but I
[01:04:18.640 -> 01:04:19.640] loved it.
[01:04:19.640 -> 01:04:22.040] Great attitude towards coaching and just being a decent human being.
[01:04:22.040 -> 01:04:24.360] He'll be talking about the Sean Wayne episode.
[01:04:24.360 -> 01:04:27.080] And by the way, after appearing on the podcast, Sean Wayne has
[01:04:27.080 -> 01:04:31.440] joined Twitter, so feel free to follow him. I like this one from Gary Kearney.
[01:04:31.600 -> 01:04:34.920] He says, and he's just sent us the quote from Alexander Trefor saying,
[01:04:34.920 -> 01:04:39.520] the best teachers are those who show you where to look, not those who tell you
[01:04:39.520 -> 01:04:43.520] what to see. And I think that was from probably watching the Robin Van Persie
[01:04:43.520 -> 01:04:46.040] episode. Gary works in football, doesn't he, Damien?
[01:04:46.320 -> 01:04:49.880] Really well-renowned and respected youth football coach out in the States.
[01:04:49.880 -> 01:04:54.400] He's a guy from Northern Ireland that has got a phenomenal reputation in youth
[01:04:54.400 -> 01:04:59.040] sport. So I'm delighted that somebody of his stature has enjoyed the podcast.
[01:04:59.120 -> 01:05:02.840] And what about the quote about the best teachers are those who show you where to
[01:05:02.840 -> 01:05:04.760] look, not those who tell you what to see.
[01:05:04.760 -> 01:05:08.500] I sort of struggle a bit with it because I think I've got
[01:05:08.500 -> 01:05:13.020] little children, right, so I'm probably guilty of telling them where to look
[01:05:13.020 -> 01:05:16.800] and what to see all too often. I don't know quite where to draw the line about
[01:05:16.800 -> 01:05:19.420] where to look but not telling them exactly what to see.
[01:05:19.420 -> 01:05:24.720] Yeah, there's lots of research on this Jake, around this idea of a growth
[01:05:24.720 -> 01:05:25.600] mindset. It's a lady called Carol Dweck, a child psychologist based at Stanford Mae llawer o ymchwil ar y jake ar ymwneud ag y syniad hwn o ddewis oedran gweithredu.
[01:05:25.600 -> 01:05:30.400] Mae'n dweud yw Carole Dweck, a'r psychologaidd plentyn, sy'n seiliedig ar y Brifysgol Stamford,
[01:05:30.400 -> 01:05:38.160] sy'n siarad am ddod i bobl, yn enwedig y bobl ifanc, i ymwneud â'r proses o ddysgu,
[01:05:38.160 -> 01:05:49.440] i gwneud perthynasau, oherwydd y mwy o perthynasau y gwneud yn effeithiol, y mwy fwy fwy eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bod chi'n eithaf eich bodmarter y gwnaethoch chi'n dod, y mwy y byddwch chi'n ymdrech i'rfod o heriau. Felly mae y pwynt Gary yn y ffordd o
[01:05:49.440 -> 01:05:54.000] creu'r amgylchedd i blant ddysgu, gwneud dewisau,
[01:05:54.000 -> 01:05:57.280] gael pethau'n iawn, oherwydd dyna lle ddechrau ddewis y bwysigrwydd
[01:05:57.280 -> 01:06:00.480] i'w gwneud. Rwy'n hoffi. Ac rwy'n credu, yn ddiweddar, cyn i ni
[01:06:00.480 -> 01:06:03.520] ymdrech i'r wythnos yma, un o'r ddewisau diwethaf ar y
[01:06:03.520 -> 01:06:06.000] ffrasiad diwethaf o Sian Wayne. Yn ystod y cyflagwrs yn ystod yr wythnos diwethaf, yn ystod yr wythnos diwethaf, yw'r reakciwn yn eithaf yn anhygoel,
[01:06:06.000 -> 01:06:08.000] yw'n eithaf anhygoel,
[01:06:08.000 -> 01:06:10.000] oedd e'n mynd i'r ffyrdd o bobl ar gyfer y cyfansod.
[01:06:10.000 -> 01:06:12.000] oedd e'n mynd i'r ffyrdd o bobl ar gyfer y cyfansod.
[01:06:12.000 -> 01:06:14.000] Yn ogystal â'r sgwrs yn ystod yr wythnos diwethaf,
[01:06:14.000 -> 01:06:16.000] yn ogystal â'r sgwrs diwethaf,
[01:06:16.000 -> 01:06:18.000] yw'n eithaf anhygoel,
[01:06:18.000 -> 01:06:20.000] oedd e'n mynd i'r ffyrdd o bobl ar gyfer y cyfansod.
[01:06:20.000 -> 01:06:22.000] oedd e'n mynd i'r ffyrdd o bobl ar gyfer theatre.
[01:06:22.000 -> 01:06:24.000] oedd e'n mynd i'r ffyrdd o bobl ar gyfer theatre.
[01:06:24.000 -> 01:06:25.280] Mae'r sgwrs yn ystod y wythnos diwethaf yn ogystal â'r sgwr yn spectacl ffantastig, felly rwy'n ddiddordeb i fod y sport o'r Liga Rugby
[01:06:25.280 -> 01:06:30.000] wedi cael cymaint o fuddsoddiad, ond hefyd rwy'n ddiddordeb i fod Sean Wayne, rhywun sydd wedi bod
[01:06:30.000 -> 01:06:35.280] ar y ffurfior o hyn, wedi dod i'r gofod o bobl ac eich hoffi, mae'n gynhyrchu
[01:06:35.280 -> 01:06:40.240] ddiddordeb iawn iddo fo a'r Liga Super yn gyffredinol. Rwy'n hoffi'r ffordd. Wel, diolch yn fawr iawn,
[01:06:40.240 -> 01:06:45.060] gobeithio y bobl yn mwynhau'r podcast sydd ar ei gyd ym mis nesaf hefyd, ac rydyn ni'n mynd i I hope that people enjoy the podcast that's on its way next week as well and we shall
[01:06:45.480 -> 01:06:50.020] Continue doing what we can to inspire so many people. It's lovely to get the messages. Yeah. No, definitely
[01:06:50.020 -> 01:06:57.220] We've got some phenomenal interviews with people that we've already done and we've got some really exciting guests that have agreed to come on
[01:06:57.220 -> 01:07:03.780] So hopefully we can we can keep giving people these messages of inspiration brilliant. Well look Damien
[01:07:03.780 -> 01:07:09.120] Thank you very much for being part of the podcast. Of course, thanks to Phil Neville for his time. A huge thanks to Tom
[01:07:09.120 -> 01:07:13.520] as well at Rethink Audio for his hard work. And don't forget you can check out the High Performance
[01:07:13.520 -> 01:07:19.600] Podcast on Instagram at High Performance Podcast. Damien is at Liquid Thinker and you can also check
[01:07:19.600 -> 01:07:26.480] out our High Performance Podcast YouTube channel for extended versions of all the interviews that we've done so far. Thanks
[01:07:26.480 -> 01:07:28.760] so much for being involved and for being part of the high
[01:07:28.760 -> 01:07:31.120] performance journey. Have a brilliant week.
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