Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 20 Feb 2023 00:02:18 GMT
Duration:
1:21:45
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Jordan Henderson is the current captain of Liverpool FC and an England international. Under his captaincy, Liverpool have won six trophies including the Champions League and, their first Premier League title in thirty years.
In this episode Jordan shares how as an only child, the displacement of his parents divorce at the age of six, impacted his life. Although for Jordan, “football is everything” to him, when his dad was diagnosed with cancer his world was turned upside down, providing a shift in his perspective.
Jake, Damian and Jordan discuss building culture, how Jordan deals with the impact of media scrutiny and how he has developed the sense of confidence he needs to back himself. Jordan hails the immediate impact that Jurgen Klopp had at Liverpool, what it has taught him and the why the Champions League win was such a defining moment for him.
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**Section 1: Introduction to the Podcast Episode**
* Introduction of Jordan Henderson, the current captain of Liverpool FC and an England international.
* Highlights of Jordan's achievements, including winning six trophies with Liverpool, including the Champions League and their first Premier League title in thirty years.
* The episode explores Jordan's upbringing, the impact of his parents' divorce at the age of six, and how it shaped his life.
**Section 2: Jordan's Upbringing and the Impact of His Parents' Divorce**
* Jordan shares how the displacement caused by his parents' divorce at a young age significantly impacted his life.
* He describes how football became his everything, providing a sense of purpose and escape from the challenges he faced.
* Jordan acknowledges that while football was his passion, when his father was diagnosed with cancer, his world was turned upside down, shifting his perspective on life.
**Section 3: Building Culture, Dealing with Media Scrutiny, and Developing Confidence**
* Jordan, Jake, and Damian discuss the importance of building a positive culture within a team.
* Jordan emphasizes the immediate impact Jurgen Klopp had at Liverpool, highlighting the significant changes in training intensity and the team's overall performance.
* He reflects on how Klopp's leadership has taught him valuable lessons and how the Champions League win was a defining moment for him.
**Section 4: The Role of Mental Health and Communication in Leadership**
* Jordan discusses the challenges he faced when he was struggling with form and fitness, and how he dealt with the impact of media scrutiny.
* He emphasizes the importance of open communication and seeking support from trusted individuals during difficult times.
* Jordan highlights the role of mental health in football and the importance of addressing mental well-being alongside physical fitness.
**Section 5: Leadership and the Importance of Togetherness**
* Jordan shares his insights on what makes a great leader and how he strives to lead by example, both on and off the pitch.
* He emphasizes the significance of togetherness and unity within a team, stressing the importance of supporting and uplifting teammates.
* Jordan reflects on the challenges of being a leader in a high-pressure environment and the importance of maintaining a positive mindset.
**Section 6: Conclusion and Takeaways**
* The episode concludes with a summary of the key points discussed, emphasizing the importance of resilience, communication, and mental well-being in leadership.
* Jordan reiterates the message of togetherness and the power of a supportive team environment in achieving success.
* The episode ends with a call to action for listeners to reflect on their own leadership styles and the impact they have on those around them.
## Summary: Jordan Henderson's High-Performance Journey Through Football, Leadership, and Mental Well-being
### Introduction:
- Jordan Henderson, the current captain of Liverpool FC and England international, shares his journey as a footballer, leader, and advocate for mental well-being.
- From his humble beginnings as an only child to his rise to prominence, Henderson's story highlights the challenges, triumphs, and personal growth he experienced along the way.
### The Impact of Divorce and the Power of Conversations:
- Henderson's parents' divorce at the age of six had a profound impact on him, leading to feelings of displacement and insecurity.
- A crucial moment in his life came when he opened up to Steve Heighway, the club's academy director, about his struggles. This conversation marked a turning point, providing him with the support and guidance he needed to address his mental health.
### Building Culture and Dealing with Scrutiny:
- As Liverpool captain, Henderson emphasized the importance of building a positive team culture, fostering unity, and setting high standards for both on and off-field performance.
- He acknowledged the challenges of dealing with media scrutiny and the impact it can have on players' mental well-being, stressing the need for support and understanding from teammates, coaches, and fans.
### The Transformative Impact of Jürgen Klopp:
- Henderson hailed the immediate impact that Jürgen Klopp had on Liverpool, praising his clear vision, charismatic leadership, and ability to create a high-intensity, attacking style of play.
- Klopp's arrival marked a turning point in Henderson's career, helping him reach new heights as a player and leader, culminating in the club's historic Champions League triumph in 2019.
### The Significance of the Champions League Victory:
- For Henderson, winning the Champions League was a defining moment, representing the culmination of years of hard work, dedication, and overcoming adversity.
- The victory served as a testament to the collective strength and resilience of the Liverpool team, solidifying their status as one of the top clubs in Europe.
### Conclusion:
- Jordan Henderson's journey is a testament to the power of perseverance, resilience, and the importance of addressing mental health challenges.
- His leadership, both on and off the pitch, has been instrumental in Liverpool's recent success, inspiring a new generation of players and fans.
- Henderson's story serves as a reminder that true success is not just about achieving trophies but also about overcoming obstacles, supporting others, and making a positive impact on the world.
**Leadership and Culture Building in Football: Insights from Jordan Henderson**
**Introduction**
In this podcast episode, Jordan Henderson, the current captain of Liverpool FC and an England international, shares his experiences as a leader and the importance of culture building in achieving team success. Henderson reflects on his journey as a player, the challenges he faced, and the lessons he learned along the way.
**Key Points**
1. **The Impact of Divorce:** Henderson recalls how the displacement caused by his parents' divorce at the age of six significantly impacted his life. He emphasizes the importance of resilience and the role of football in providing him with a sense of purpose and belonging.
2. **Jürgen Klopp's Transformative Leadership:** Henderson highlights the immediate positive impact that manager Jürgen Klopp had on Liverpool FC. He describes Klopp's demanding and intense approach, which initially caused some discomfort among the players. However, Klopp's unwavering belief in the team and his ability to create a cohesive and supportive environment ultimately led to Liverpool's success.
3. **The Power of Perspective:** Henderson emphasizes the importance of maintaining a positive perspective, even in the face of adversity. He recalls how Klopp's reaction to defeats helped shift the team's mindset and instilled a belief that setbacks were merely temporary.
4. **Dealing with Criticism and Media Scrutiny:** Henderson discusses the challenges of dealing with criticism and media scrutiny, particularly during difficult periods. He highlights the importance of maintaining self-belief and focusing on the support of teammates and the manager.
5. **The Role of the Captain:** Henderson reflects on his role as captain of Liverpool FC and the responsibilities that come with it. He emphasizes the need to lead by example, both on and off the pitch, and to create a culture where players feel supported and empowered to perform at their best.
6. **Building Trust and Camaraderie:** Henderson stresses the significance of fostering trust and camaraderie among teammates. He believes that a strong team bond is essential for creating a positive and supportive environment where players can thrive and achieve their full potential.
7. **Continuous Learning and Improvement:** Henderson acknowledges that learning and improvement are continuous processes. He emphasizes the importance of being open to feedback and constantly seeking ways to enhance his leadership skills and contribute to the team's success.
**Conclusion**
Jordan Henderson's insights into leadership, culture building, and resilience provide valuable lessons for anyone aspiring to lead and succeed in team environments. His emphasis on maintaining a positive perspective, leading by example, and fostering a supportive team culture highlights the importance of creating an environment where individuals can thrive and achieve their full potential.
# **The High-Performance Podcast Episode Summary**
## **Guest:** Jordan Henderson, Liverpool FC Captain and England International
## **Topics Discussed:**
* **Building Culture:** Henderson emphasizes the importance of building a strong team culture, fostering unity, togetherness, and respect among players.
* **Dealing with Media Scrutiny:** Henderson shares his experiences with media scrutiny and how he has developed the confidence to back himself despite criticism.
* **The Impact of Jürgen Klopp:** Henderson hails the immediate impact that Jürgen Klopp had at Liverpool, highlighting how Klopp's leadership has taught him valuable lessons and contributed to the team's success.
* **The Defining Moment of the Champions League Win:** Henderson describes the Champions League win as a defining moment in his career, emphasizing the culmination of hard work, dedication, and sacrifice that led to the victory.
* **The Importance of Mental Health:** Henderson stresses the significance of mental health in society, encouraging individuals to seek support during difficult times and emphasizing the value of reaching out to others for help.
* **The Realization of Life as a Team Sport:** Henderson acknowledges that he has come to understand that life is a team sport, recognizing the importance of collaboration, sharing, and relying on others for support.
* **The Need for Kindness to Oneself:** Henderson reflects on the intensity and dedication required in his career as a professional footballer, emphasizing the importance of being kind to oneself and acknowledging that setbacks and challenges are a natural part of life.
## **Key Insights:**
* Building a strong team culture is crucial for success, fostering unity, togetherness, and respect among team members.
* Developing self-confidence and resilience is essential for dealing with criticism and setbacks, both on and off the field.
* Effective leadership can have a transformative impact, inspiring and motivating individuals to achieve their full potential.
* Celebrating significant achievements and milestones is important for acknowledging the culmination of hard work and dedication.
* Prioritizing mental health and seeking support during difficult times is vital for overall well-being and performance.
* Recognizing that life is a team sport and relying on others for support can lead to greater success and fulfillment.
* Practicing self-kindness and acknowledging that setbacks are a natural part of life is important for maintaining a healthy perspective and promoting resilience.
## **Actionable Tips:**
* Foster a positive and supportive team culture by promoting unity, togetherness, and respect among team members.
* Develop self-confidence and resilience by embracing challenges, learning from mistakes, and seeking feedback.
* Seek out effective leaders who can inspire and motivate you to achieve your goals.
* Celebrate your achievements and milestones, acknowledging the hard work and dedication that led to your success.
* Prioritize your mental health by seeking support during difficult times and engaging in self-care practices.
* Recognize that life is a team sport and rely on others for support and collaboration.
* Practice self-kindness and acknowledge that setbacks are a natural part of life, learning from them and moving forward.
[00:00.000 -> 00:07.960] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey. This is High Performance, the podcast that reminds you it's within.
[00:07.960 -> 00:12.440] Your ambition, your purpose, your story are all there. We just help unlock it by turning
[00:12.440 -> 00:17.440] the lived experiences of the planet's highest performers into your life lessons. So right
[00:17.440 -> 00:25.640] now, I allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes to speak to one of the most impressive footballers in the Premier League. So this
[00:25.640 -> 00:31.720] guy can be your teacher. Today, this awaits you.
[00:31.720 -> 00:40.040] Everything to get to that point, dreams, hard work, dedication, sacrifice, failure, everything
[00:40.040 -> 00:45.600] that went along with that to get to that moment made it even better really.
[00:47.120 -> 00:47.680] Jürgen's really impressive.
[00:51.880 -> 00:57.360] The impact he had within the first couple of days in that game was crazy. Like the stats, the running stats, the intensity watching the game was off the charts really.
[00:57.360 -> 01:03.400] Now I know a manager can have an impact, but this impact for me was another level really.
[01:04.640 -> 01:10.200] I can't really control anything else other than I need to make sure that I perform and give absolutely everything
[01:10.800 -> 01:15.200] to try to save his life really and try to make him recover as best he can.
[01:16.000 -> 01:17.600] I didn't want other people worrying.
[01:18.000 -> 01:26.160] I didn't want my best friend, my wife, my mum and dad to worry about me struggling because of football. You know, there's much
[01:26.160 -> 01:30.640] bigger things going on in the world, but for me, football was everything.
[01:31.760 -> 01:37.360] So welcome to High Performance, Jordan Henderson. I think first of all, let's give Jordan and the
[01:37.360 -> 01:41.360] team around him huge credit for allowing him to come on this podcast and share things that you
[01:41.360 -> 01:49.060] just don't hear elite footballers talking about, particularly at a time when Liverpool have been struggling for form. I think it's so easy to not put
[01:49.060 -> 01:54.780] your head above the parapet, to not talk about all of the nuances and the vagaries and the
[01:54.780 -> 01:59.460] things in sport that we don't see when your team are struggling. So for Jordan to come
[01:59.460 -> 02:04.200] on this podcast and be willing and happy to talk about life at Liverpool, I can't thank
[02:04.200 -> 02:06.000] him enough. I think it's a measure of the man.
[02:06.000 -> 02:11.400] But you know what? Please understand that this is not a conversation about football.
[02:11.400 -> 02:13.600] We're going to talk to Jordan about his upbringing.
[02:13.600 -> 02:18.000] We're going to talk to him about the serious struggles that he had mentally
[02:18.000 -> 02:21.700] when he was at Liverpool and he was getting criticism
[02:21.700 -> 02:24.400] and he was struggling for form and for fitness.
[02:24.400 -> 02:26.240] We talk about personal relationships.
[02:26.240 -> 02:27.280] We talk about families.
[02:27.280 -> 02:28.640] We talk about love.
[02:28.640 -> 02:30.080] We also talk about leadership.
[02:30.080 -> 02:34.240] He is fascinating on what Jurgen Klopp is like in the good times and in the bad.
[02:34.880 -> 02:38.720] And this isn't for you to learn more about being a football manager or a footballer
[02:38.720 -> 02:40.640] or a teammate in a football team.
[02:41.360 -> 02:44.320] This is about you learning more about life,
[02:44.320 -> 02:46.080] leading your people, standing
[02:46.080 -> 02:50.960] alongside your colleagues and your friends and your family, and also pushing through
[02:50.960 -> 02:56.880] the difficult and dark times. This is not a conversation that you hear footballers having,
[02:56.880 -> 03:02.600] but I really believe you should. I think that everyone in football should talk more. I believe
[03:02.600 -> 03:07.860] that we would understand our players more, we'd understand our managers more, owners. I would love to get owners of Premier League teams
[03:07.860 -> 03:13.140] on this podcast because they've got a story to share and we see so little of their story.
[03:13.140 -> 03:16.780] We jump to conclusions and that's why there's such a disconnect I think at the moment between
[03:16.780 -> 03:20.260] fans and owners of football teams. So if you're the owner of a Premier League side and you're
[03:20.260 -> 03:26.880] listening to this, get in touch. We'd love to invite you onto the podcast. But right now, it's a real pleasure
[03:26.880 -> 03:30.180] to invite the captain of one of my favourite football teams
[03:30.180 -> 03:31.960] onto High Performance.
[03:31.960 -> 03:34.440] A group of incredible fans at a club
[03:34.440 -> 03:36.840] with remarkable history who've done stunning things,
[03:36.840 -> 03:39.180] especially over the last few years,
[03:39.180 -> 03:41.880] with this man as captain and Jurgen Klopp as manager.
[03:41.880 -> 03:42.760] So how's it happened?
[03:42.760 -> 03:46.280] And what's really gone on when the cameras aren't rolling?
[03:46.280 -> 03:50.460] Let's find out in today's high performance podcast.
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[06:35.400 -> 06:45.280] Welcome first of all, thank you very much for doing this. What is high performance in your eyes?
[06:45.920 -> 06:47.680] for me, it's
[06:47.680 -> 06:48.840] being
[06:48.840 -> 06:53.740] Dedicated to everything you do really around for me football
[06:54.480 -> 06:56.480] obviously training and
[06:56.480 -> 07:01.960] Going in every day working as hard as you possibly can doing the things that the training ground, but I'd say
[07:02.360 -> 07:06.000] High performance links in off the training ground when you go home
[07:06.000 -> 07:12.480] what you're doing and it's pretty much every single day around the clock for me football, football,
[07:12.480 -> 07:20.160] football. Just constantly trying to think of ways to improve, to get better, to recover for the next
[07:20.160 -> 07:30.260] game with the amount of games I've got. thinking about other people, other players to try and help them and what I could do better to help. So just constant trying to improve
[07:30.260 -> 07:31.260] all the time.
[07:31.260 -> 07:32.260] So it's relentless, right?
[07:32.260 -> 07:33.920] Relentless, yeah, it's a good word.
[07:33.920 -> 07:35.840] And where does that come from, do you think?
[07:35.840 -> 07:40.400] I'd say for me personally, it's part of my character in terms of I just love playing
[07:40.400 -> 07:49.000] football and I always have since I was a kid, football's been everything. I started playing for Sunderland Academy when I was about six
[07:49.000 -> 07:53.640] seven and since then I've just loved playing football, dedicated my life to
[07:53.640 -> 07:59.040] football. So I want to go right back to the beginning if possible, your new book
[07:59.040 -> 08:03.360] is brilliant by the way and early in it you talk about your parents divorce
[08:03.360 -> 08:06.720] and the challenges that that had on you as a young person and how
[08:06.720 -> 08:13.080] It's kind of not just shaped you as a husband and as a parent, but as a person as well
[08:13.600 -> 08:15.280] so
[08:15.280 -> 08:18.540] What sort of daily behaviors or what do you carry now?
[08:18.960 -> 08:20.960] that you think was maybe shaped by the
[08:21.560 -> 08:25.280] Experience you had of your parents breaking up at quite a young age.
[08:25.280 -> 08:30.280] In the book when I speak about me mum and dad's divorce it was a big thing for me, I
[08:30.280 -> 08:36.280] was only around six year old so it was like me world had turned upside down, a bit different
[08:36.280 -> 08:41.000] if you were older and the way you think but when I was six that was pretty traumatic for
[08:41.000 -> 08:45.920] me as a kid and an only child with my mum and dad so it was a tough period
[08:46.720 -> 08:54.080] and that looking back that sort of period shaped the way I was in terms of I was quite shy and
[08:54.080 -> 09:01.600] quiet but I'd always have some sort of anger or self-belief to try to prove me worth and prove
[09:01.600 -> 09:06.800] people wrong. Exper experiences like that definitely then
[09:04.440 -> 09:07.840] shape you for when you get older. Because
[09:06.800 -> 09:09.960] looking at some of those
[09:07.840 -> 09:12.480] characteristics that you display today
[09:09.960 -> 09:14.840] Jordan, like the ability to bring
[09:12.480 -> 09:17.160] disparate groups of people together, the
[09:14.840 -> 09:19.040] ability to smooth over difficult
[09:17.160 -> 09:21.320] patches, look like some of the
[09:19.040 -> 09:24.960] characteristics that maybe in your book you
[09:21.320 -> 09:27.440] describe you learn as the only
[09:24.960 -> 09:27.040] child of divorced parents.
[09:27.040 -> 09:32.320] Would you recognize that yourself? Not at the time, definitely not, and not probably until I started
[09:32.960 -> 09:37.200] writing the book. You know, I think when I, one of the good things about doing the book,
[09:37.200 -> 09:42.400] even though I was a bit unsure at first, was after it I would say I was a lot more self-aware
[09:42.400 -> 09:45.300] of myself and how I think and what I do things and
[09:45.580 -> 09:50.980] think really was I that bothered about that situation that much and but at the time it was a really big thing and
[09:50.980 -> 09:56.260] look I'm back affected as quite a lot even though I was really really young and I could only remember certain things
[09:56.560 -> 09:59.420] That's only one instance, but over the course of my life
[09:59.420 -> 10:02.660] I think there's been a few different things that have helped grow
[10:02.940 -> 10:06.400] Helped me grow as a person and shape us as a person really.
[10:06.400 -> 10:07.920] Would you give us an example of one?
[10:07.920 -> 10:13.760] When my dad took ill, that was probably a big one in terms of putting everything in perspective.
[10:13.760 -> 10:19.840] Life in general, again football is everything to me and always has been,
[10:19.840 -> 10:26.000] but when something like that happens at Ready Rockshow and everything changes, and a Terry
[10:26.000 -> 10:30.800] Deal and corporate situations like that, that really make you stronger really.
[10:30.800 -> 10:33.760] For people that are listening to this that don't know the story of your dad and what
[10:33.760 -> 10:38.800] happened, would you mind sharing with us what happened to your dad and how you came to find
[10:38.800 -> 10:40.560] out and what happened afterwards?
[10:40.560 -> 10:48.000] Basically, it was the season 2013-14, y llyfr oedd y llawn yn ddod i'r ffwrdd o fwythu'r Llyg,
[10:48.000 -> 10:54.000] ond roedd yn ystod y seswn pan ddechreuodd fy mab yn cael cancer o'r ddŵr,
[10:54.000 -> 11:00.000] fe ddechreuodd e i fyny i'r neu'r ffwrdd a dweud i mi a fy nhwyr iddo ddweud ei fod wedi cael cancer.
[11:00.000 -> 11:05.000] Roedd yn rhaid i mi fynd drwy'r ymgyrchu a'r chemotherapaeth a phopeth.
[11:05.000 -> 11:09.000] Ac o'r moment honno, mae'n newid popeth i mi.
[11:09.000 -> 11:13.000] Roedd gen i ddau flaen, sy'n fy nghaerdydd nawr,
[11:13.000 -> 11:16.000] ond mae pobeth yn cael ei roi i'r cyfle.
[11:16.000 -> 11:23.000] A oes fy nghaerdydd yn mynd i fyny heb gwybod pa oedd fy nabil a'i ganddyn nhw?
[11:23.000 -> 11:32.800] Pethau fel hynny yn dod i'ch gofyn. whom my dad or her grandad was, things like that come into your head. So, difficult period in my life, but actually looking back was probably a sliding doors moment of a change
[11:32.800 -> 11:37.000] for me personally and for us as a team on the pitch, probably the opposite,
[11:37.000 -> 11:44.400] in terms of where we were, where we were going, and then in the end came so close to winning the league.
[11:44.400 -> 11:46.320] So on the pitch was going really well,
[11:46.320 -> 11:49.320] but off the pitch it was a really difficult period of my life.
[11:49.320 -> 11:52.800] Would you mind sharing with people who are going through maybe similar,
[11:52.800 -> 11:54.600] it might not be an ill parent,
[11:54.600 -> 11:57.520] but they've got challenges and they still have to perform,
[11:57.520 -> 11:59.400] whether it's as a parent or in their career.
[12:00.000 -> 12:03.560] How did you turn the trauma of finding out that the person who'd been with you
[12:03.560 -> 12:05.680] every single step on your football journey
[12:06.160 -> 12:08.640] Was as ill as your dad was, you know, this is a serious illness
[12:08.640 -> 12:14.780] How did you then manage to walk out on a football field and play well, walk into training and lead the players?
[12:15.160 -> 12:16.120] How?
[12:16.120 -> 12:18.320] The way my dad was he didn't want us to see him
[12:18.760 -> 12:24.360] So he knew he was gonna look ill. He was gonna be in bed and hospital after surgery, chemo
[12:24.360 -> 12:25.680] He wasn't gonna look great. So he didn't want to see us. The only way to make him better oedd yn byw yn y stwyd, oedd yn byw yn y stwyd, yn y hospital, ar ôl ymgyrchu, chemo, oedd ddim yn byw'n dda,
[12:25.680 -> 12:27.840] felly dydyn ni ddim eisiau ei weld.
[12:27.840 -> 12:29.520] Y unig ffordd i wneud yn well,
[12:29.520 -> 12:30.720] fe dweudd, oedd,
[12:30.720 -> 12:31.840] y unig amser rydw i'n mynd i weld
[12:31.840 -> 12:33.520] yw ar y teleplane,
[12:33.520 -> 12:34.640] ac y peth a bydd yn helpu i ni
[12:34.640 -> 12:35.480] gael ei wneud y mwyaf
[12:35.480 -> 12:36.560] yw os ydych chi'n chwarae'n dda
[12:36.560 -> 12:38.080] a chwarae'n dda
[12:38.080 -> 12:40.120] a'r tîm yn gwaith dda.
[12:40.120 -> 12:42.320] Felly, mae'n llawer o bwysau
[12:42.320 -> 12:42.720] i'r peth,
[12:42.720 -> 12:43.760] rhaid i mi chwarae'n dda
[12:43.760 -> 12:44.880] er mwyn i fy nabod
[12:44.880 -> 12:45.920] gall fy nabod ddod yn well, ond dyna oedd fy manteisio ar y pryd, dych chi'n gwybod, roedd fel So that's quite a lot of pressure to think I need to play well so my dad can sort of get better.
[12:45.920 -> 12:51.200] But that was my mentality at the time, you know, it was like I can't really control anything else
[12:51.200 -> 12:56.960] other than I need to make sure that I perform and give absolutely everything to try to save his life
[12:56.960 -> 13:02.160] really and try to make him recover as best he can. That's what I try and try to do.
[13:02.160 -> 13:05.000] Were you thinking about him during games?
[13:05.000 -> 13:10.000] Definitely before games, as we're walking out and things like that, which was again,
[13:10.000 -> 13:15.000] I just wanted the game to start because when I wasn't in the game, I would be thinking.
[13:15.000 -> 13:20.000] So before games, if I was in the tunnel and stuff, just before going out, I'd be thinking about it.
[13:20.000 -> 13:27.760] But as soon as the game went on, I sort of just got lost in the game, concentrated on that and then again after the game,
[13:28.440 -> 13:30.280] we won quite a lot of that period.
[13:30.280 -> 13:35.120] So I was pretty happy and happy that he would be able to see us winning and me playing well.
[13:35.120 -> 13:38.280] So it was a big moment in my career really,
[13:38.280 -> 13:40.360] that made us stronger as a person.
[13:40.360 -> 13:44.480] I became a man in that period, I would say,
[13:44.480 -> 13:47.000] and that really helped on the football pitch.
[13:47.000 -> 13:52.000] I'm intrigued at how you harnessed that emotion of thinking about your dad,
[13:52.000 -> 13:57.000] say like in the dressing room before a big game where it's an emotional environment anyway.
[13:57.000 -> 14:01.000] How did you keep yourself on the right side of it,
[14:01.000 -> 14:05.540] using it as a catalyst or a fuel for you to go and deliver a man
[14:05.540 -> 14:10.440] on a match performance as opposed to feeling overwhelmed by it, whether it's the responsibility
[14:10.440 -> 14:14.840] or just the sheer bleakness of your dad's situation at the time?
[14:14.840 -> 14:21.400] I think there was a part of us that was angry and the sort of the unfairness of it, you
[14:21.400 -> 14:26.240] know, how can this happen to my dad really? And not knowing what was
[14:26.240 -> 14:31.740] going to happen was difficult. So again, I couldn't really control anything other than
[14:31.740 -> 14:35.160] what I'd done on the pitch. I was just looking forward to getting on the pitch every time.
[14:35.160 -> 14:38.940] You know, when I went home, I would be thinking about it. Straight after games, I would be
[14:38.940 -> 14:43.180] thinking about it. So I didn't want to be thinking about it all the time because it
[14:43.180 -> 14:45.480] just put us maybe a bit down and thinking about it all the time because it just put us maybe a bit
[14:45.480 -> 14:51.080] down and thinking about it all the time. So I wanted to be on the pitch so I didn't have
[14:51.080 -> 14:56.520] to think about it and I could just concentrate on doing what I needed to do. That was probably
[14:56.520 -> 15:01.560] my first season or breakthrough season as a player where I think people really thought
[15:01.560 -> 15:07.120] yeah, he's a Liverpool player. Not long after that he recovered
[15:07.120 -> 15:12.320] really well and got the all clear. So in the end it worked out pretty well and I know for some,
[15:12.320 -> 15:16.960] or a lot of people, it doesn't work out at all. Very lucky that and very fortunate that it did.
[15:16.960 -> 15:20.640] It's a really interesting topic of conversation this isn't it because
[15:20.640 -> 15:27.860] we speak often on the podcast about there are things that are hard for you but they're not necessarily bad for you and actually this would have been a
[15:27.860 -> 15:31.280] really hard period for you but you could argue it wasn't bad for you it taught
[15:31.280 -> 15:34.920] you about emotion it taught you that there's a strength in there that perhaps
[15:34.920 -> 15:38.380] you didn't know was there until you went through this. Definitely and like I say
[15:38.380 -> 15:44.600] I'm fortunate that in the end me dad was well and and that helps but yeah you sort
[15:44.600 -> 15:45.760] of learn a lot about
[15:45.760 -> 15:49.600] yourself in difficult moments and in my life that was a really difficult period
[15:49.600 -> 15:56.120] but it showed us that I was strong and could get through it and basically
[15:56.120 -> 16:01.960] perform for him to try and save his life was the way I was thinking and in
[16:01.960 -> 16:05.320] the end I think it helped him for sure when he was watching
[16:05.320 -> 16:10.240] the games and like I say we were winning basically every week at that point so he was over the
[16:10.240 -> 16:15.840] moon but when we are talking about tipping over the edge there was one game I can remember
[16:15.840 -> 16:21.400] a full of my way where Brendan Rodgers was the manager at the time and we got to the
[16:21.400 -> 16:25.800] point where I think it was in January, February, where in December we'd
[16:25.800 -> 16:29.640] lost a couple of games back to back, so it sort of put us out of the title race. But
[16:29.640 -> 16:34.560] then after that we'd sort of won every game. So we got to the point where we were sort
[16:34.560 -> 16:40.840] of on the chase a little bit and were performing really well. So Brendan used to, before games,
[16:40.840 -> 16:46.360] he used to get a letter from one of the lads' family members to basically
[16:46.360 -> 16:51.400] speak about them and the team. It was really good actually to bring the togetherness and
[16:51.400 -> 16:59.000] use that sort of emotion and use people around us to try to help us perform and get over
[16:59.000 -> 17:03.960] the line to basically win the league in the end. But I can remember following my way,
[17:03.960 -> 17:25.600] it was my turn, so obviously I didn't know the players that I had and they didn't know. Iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, iawn, Brendan read it out in front of everyone before we head off to the stadium and play.
[17:25.600 -> 17:30.520] And obviously my dad was just saying how proud he was of the team, of me and making them
[17:30.520 -> 17:31.520] really strong.
[17:31.520 -> 17:32.520] It was hard though at the time, wasn't it?
[17:32.520 -> 17:37.160] Making them really strong, like watching it and I'm sitting there like embittered.
[17:37.160 -> 17:38.400] Just stop reading and let's just go play.
[17:38.400 -> 17:39.400] Is this in the hotel?
[17:39.400 -> 17:44.000] This is in the hotel before we go.
[17:44.000 -> 17:48.680] And then went and played the game and actually I probably got too emotional
[17:48.680 -> 17:55.440] off that. It made us two, didn't really perform particularly well, done okay but not to the
[17:55.440 -> 18:00.360] level that I probably was the game or the few weeks before that. We ended up winning
[18:00.360 -> 18:05.000] I think Stevie got a last minute winner in the end so we ended up winning the
[18:05.000 -> 18:10.200] game which was great but I can remember that was the only game where I probably got the
[18:10.200 -> 18:12.880] emotion probably got the better of us I would say.
[18:12.880 -> 18:18.480] It's interesting you recount that because when we sat down with Steven Gerrard we asked
[18:18.480 -> 18:24.520] him about the letters and whether it almost over arouses you because that game against
[18:24.520 -> 18:25.920] Chelsea where he slipped was the one where his letter had been read out and we spoke a y byddai'n ymwneud â'i gweithio ar eich gwrthwyneb, oherwydd y gêm hwnnw o'r ffordd y gynnal Chelsea
[18:25.920 -> 18:28.640] oedd y gêm hwnnw o'r ffordd y gynnal Chelsea
[18:28.640 -> 18:31.520] ac roeddem yn siarad am y byddai'n gallu bod yn fwy gallan,
[18:31.520 -> 18:32.720] yn enwedig i'r rhai a'n clywed,
[18:32.720 -> 18:35.200] ond y byddai i chi fel unigol,
[18:35.200 -> 18:38.000] mae'n tyfu i chi dros y bwys o'r ymdrechion.
[18:38.000 -> 18:40.400] Rwy'n credu pan oedd hi'n wir yn hir fel hyn i mi,
[18:40.400 -> 18:42.560] roedd hi'n wir yn hir, roedd hi'n dal i ddigwydd.
[18:42.560 -> 18:45.760] Felly, ie, efallai, yn y sefyllfa honno i mi, for me it was really raw, it was still happening. So yeah it was probably in
[18:45.760 -> 18:49.600] that situation for me personally, don't get us wrong I still played and played
[18:49.600 -> 18:54.120] the game but probably just wasn't at the same level as I had been but yeah I
[18:54.120 -> 18:59.160] think for everybody else like when I was listening to other people's letters it
[18:59.160 -> 19:03.840] made me feel like more together and more everyone, we're like a family sort of
[19:03.840 -> 19:07.600] thing, we're all trying to do it for each other and each other's family and it was
[19:07.600 -> 19:11.120] a really good thing but I know what you're saying when it's you and
[19:11.120 -> 19:15.320] especially when it's that raw it can be quite difficult. You've made a couple of
[19:15.320 -> 19:19.240] comments about you learned a lot about yourself during that period and you felt
[19:19.240 -> 19:24.160] like you became a man was the phrase you used. I'm interested about what you
[19:24.160 -> 19:29.800] learned about opening up and communicating because again if I read about the very
[19:29.800 -> 19:34.560] much before and after of your dad's illness, before it you had this view of
[19:34.560 -> 19:37.320] I'm not going to tell anybody I'm going to keep this all bottled up, this is
[19:37.320 -> 19:41.200] private, but it was your dad that went and opened the floodgates when he came
[19:41.200 -> 19:47.840] into the club and told Brendan Rogers about his illness because he knew you wouldn't do it. Would you tell us what you learned
[19:47.840 -> 19:53.600] about communicating better or being more open with your emotions and how that has
[19:53.600 -> 19:57.920] helped you? I'd say I'm still still working a lot on that but it is a lot better I
[19:57.920 -> 20:02.920] would say. When I was younger I'd find it hard because I just feel as though I
[20:02.920 -> 20:09.940] didn't want to burden other people Really with my problems or whatever was happening in my life. I know everybody's got their own problems
[20:10.420 -> 20:13.760] so I didn't in this instance, I didn't want to go in and
[20:15.540 -> 20:20.660] Burden other people with with my issue, but also for them to think or treat is any differently
[20:21.300 -> 20:25.160] But when I was younger, I would say I would be quite quite
[20:25.160 -> 20:29.420] introvert in terms of I wouldn't want to tell anybody. Do you think maybe because you'd
[20:29.420 -> 20:33.920] seen your parents go through that tricky divorce you didn't feel in a position to
[20:33.920 -> 20:37.520] go to them with more problems you were like there's an issue in this family
[20:37.520 -> 20:40.960] and you were an only child where where do you go? Yeah I suppose you know when
[20:40.960 -> 20:43.800] you're looking at like that like when I was the only child and mum died and you
[20:43.800 -> 20:46.860] go way back like I had to deal with that on my own really
[20:46.860 -> 20:53.020] I was only what six seven I was quite young the person that I probably would go to would be my nana
[20:53.100 -> 20:55.100] Which was me my dad's mum
[20:55.480 -> 21:00.580] So she was the only one I would probably open up to if anybody and did you open up to her much?
[21:00.580 -> 21:04.220] At the time of divorce I would be with her a lot. Yeah a lot
[21:04.960 -> 21:06.480] She was the one I would go to,
[21:06.480 -> 21:13.280] steer hers, speak to and always be with, I can remember that and then I was really close to her
[21:13.280 -> 21:19.600] growing up up until the point she passed away so when she died it was a big thing for me because I
[21:19.600 -> 21:27.960] lost the person that I probably confided in the most. But when we're going back to why wouldn't I open up,
[21:27.960 -> 21:30.520] I just felt as though I didn't want to burden other people.
[21:30.520 -> 21:33.560] I'd say when I was in a pretty dark place
[21:33.560 -> 21:37.000] was when maybe I'd just moved to Liverpool,
[21:37.000 -> 21:41.240] wasn't performing to the levels I was probably expected to.
[21:41.240 -> 21:43.400] Talks about us leaving Liverpool,
[21:43.400 -> 21:46.000] I'd worked so hard to get there, I'd only been there a year. Criticism, a lot of that comes with that. ac rydyn ni'n gobeithio ei fod yn cael ei gofyn. Mae'n siarad am ni'n mynd i Liverpool. Rydw i wedi gweithio'n fawr iawn i gael yno.
[21:46.000 -> 21:48.000] Roeddwn i'n mynd yno ar ôl y blynyddoedd.
[21:48.000 -> 21:50.000] Mae llawer o hynny'n dod â hynny.
[21:50.000 -> 21:52.000] Mae pobl yn eich eisiau i'w allu allu allan o'r clwb,
[21:52.000 -> 21:54.000] i'w mynd i'r ffwrdd.
[21:54.000 -> 21:56.000] Y cymdeithas cymdeithasol, rydyn ni'n gwybod
[21:56.000 -> 21:58.000] pa mor anodd y gallai hynny fod.
[21:58.000 -> 22:00.000] Roedd yna amser, pan oeddwn i'n ifanc,
[22:00.000 -> 22:02.000] o'r 21, 22 oed, ac roeddwn i wedi ysgrifennu ar gyfer Liverpool.
[22:02.000 -> 22:04.000] Roeddwn i'n ystod y prif seison,
[22:04.000 -> 22:06.400] ac nid oedd yn mynd yn dda iawn. Roedd hynny'n amser anodd i mi and I'd just signed for Liverpool, my first season didn't go particularly well. That was
[22:06.400 -> 22:13.720] a tough period for me mentally to get through. I just wanted to get through it on my own.
[22:13.720 -> 22:18.280] I probably didn't even open up to my wife, which looking back I don't know how she stayed
[22:18.280 -> 22:19.280] with us to be honest.
[22:19.280 -> 22:22.280] So what were you like to live with at that point?
[22:22.280 -> 22:29.040] Horrendous probably. I don't know how she didn't get in the car and drive to Sunderland and left. I don't know
[22:29.040 -> 22:37.500] because I basically put everything into training, do extra training, do extra gym work, come
[22:37.500 -> 22:44.540] home late, go home, watch the telly in the dark. So doing everything you can to not be
[22:44.540 -> 22:47.600] thinking about the fact that you were in a difficult place.
[22:47.600 -> 22:51.400] Yeah, just trying to keep busy really, just trying to improve and prove people wrong,
[22:51.400 -> 22:56.000] to get to where I needed to get to by just doing extra work, extra training.
[22:56.000 -> 23:00.600] But can you recognise now that what you considered to be selfless,
[23:00.600 -> 23:07.000] of not wanting to burden other people, could be perceived by those close to you as being quite selfish in many ways, because you're not letting them in, o ddim eisiau cymryd pwysicau ar y rhai sy'n ymwneud â chi fel bod yn ddiddorol yn nifer o ffyrdd,
[23:07.000 -> 23:14.000] achos dydyn ni ddim yn rhoi nhw i mewn, dydyn ni ddim yn gallu i'r bobl sy'n eich cofio a'ch gofio i chi gael cymdeithasau.
[23:14.000 -> 23:16.000] Mewn gwirionedd, 100%.
[23:16.000 -> 23:20.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi fod yn anodd i fy nifo, mewn gwirionedd, ar y cyfnod honno.
[23:20.000 -> 23:25.080] Unwaith eto, dydyn ni ddim yn agor y cwpwm, ac mae hi'n rhaid i mi fynd ymlaen, weird. Again, me not opening up to her and she's having to basically go through and like
[23:25.080 -> 23:31.120] you're saying probably thinks I'm being selfish. Probably my best friend who I went to school
[23:31.120 -> 23:38.000] with since we were two, three in nursery probably thinks selfish. You know, why didn't you come
[23:38.000 -> 23:50.440] to me? You know I'm always here for you. But I didn't want other people worrying. I didn't want my best friend, my wife, my mum and dad to worry about me struggling because of football.
[23:50.440 -> 23:54.640] There's much bigger things going on in the world but for me football was
[23:54.640 -> 23:59.520] everything, especially when I was 21, I didn't have children.
[23:59.520 -> 24:09.440] Football was, that was it, that was my everything. Obviously when I've had kids, yeah, again, changes a lot and everything's about them.
[24:09.440 -> 24:14.600] But that period in time, football, football, football was the biggest thing in my life
[24:14.600 -> 24:19.960] and it wasn't going particularly well so I suffered a lot.
[24:19.960 -> 24:24.400] What I found in the end that was really useful was speaking to somebody who wasn't going
[24:24.400 -> 24:26.800] to judge and didn't really know us that well.
[24:27.120 -> 24:38.640] So that person for me was probably Steve Peters, who again, around the time of me dad getting ill, us challenging for the league, Steve Peters come in, Brendan brought him in.
[24:38.760 -> 24:45.840] He was a psychiatrist who had worked in different fields, cycling being one.
[24:45.840 -> 24:52.640] When Steve came in, I was at a point where I felt, well, I haven't really got much to lose.
[24:52.640 -> 24:58.600] And actually, maybe I do, because it was very, Steve come in, speak to everyone and said, listen,
[24:58.600 -> 25:03.200] if my door's open, if anybody needs to just chat about anything, whether it's football, whether it's not,
[25:03.200 -> 25:08.580] obviously it never gets back to the manager or can't because of his profession and everything sort
[25:08.580 -> 25:10.840] of personal between them.
[25:10.840 -> 25:18.080] Was there a thought in the back of your mind that I don't want people to see a perceived
[25:18.080 -> 25:21.760] weakness here, I don't want the manager to think there's an issue?
[25:21.760 -> 25:30.360] Definitely, definitely and I think for players that is a big thing. You'd never want the manager to think you're not in a great place because you're not a
[25:30.360 -> 25:35.140] player really. Mentally if you're not in the right place then he's got to think about winning
[25:35.140 -> 25:41.400] games and performance. But Steve made it very clear that even if he wanted to tell the manager
[25:41.400 -> 25:48.560] he couldn't because that's like a doctor really, you know, if you speak, you can't tell anyone else. So I really felt
[25:48.560 -> 25:52.720] that that was genuine and that you could speak to a woman nobody else would
[25:52.720 -> 25:57.920] would ever know. It's interesting because we met Sir Chris Hoy on the podcast
[25:57.920 -> 26:02.960] where Steve had worked at Bishop's Cycling. He described to us how you'd almost be seen
[26:02.960 -> 26:08.560] as unusual if you didn't go and speak to the psychiatrist rather than what you're describing as the other way
[26:08.560 -> 26:12.720] of you're like you're worried about going and the perception of being seen
[26:12.720 -> 26:17.440] by him. Well sort of yeah you wouldn't want people to know because I suppose
[26:17.440 -> 26:22.160] they'll think oh is there an issue has he got something but Brendan brought him in
[26:22.160 -> 26:28.400] for a reason to help you know so at the same time, he wanted, I
[26:28.400 -> 26:33.680] suppose, the players to speak. But you do fear that actually, the players or the manager
[26:33.680 -> 26:40.160] think something's not quite right. But I would say, by when I did open up and I did speak
[26:40.160 -> 26:49.440] to Steve, that was massive for me. It was that period where everything changed really. It is amazing isn't it, how just sometimes having a conversation, you sort of, I don't
[26:49.440 -> 26:51.680] know, you almost feel like a light's been turned on or something.
[26:51.680 -> 26:52.680] Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
[26:52.680 -> 26:59.080] How is it, it made me feel like that. I think this is a really important part of this podcast
[26:59.080 -> 27:02.520] episode because I still think that there's this feeling, a lot of people walk around
[27:02.520 -> 27:06.640] with the same feeling you have, which is, I struggling and it might not be a huge struggle. It might
[27:06.640 -> 27:10.240] only be a small struggle, but I'm struggling and I don't want to burden anyone else with
[27:10.240 -> 27:15.360] this. But the truth is, we all know that when it comes to, you know, working on your mental
[27:15.360 -> 27:19.860] health, the only person that can do the work is you, right? But you should not do the work
[27:19.860 -> 27:23.240] on your own. You know, you need allies. You need people to stand alongside you. You need
[27:23.240 -> 27:29.840] to be guided and shown where to go before you can do that work. And as you know, a lot of
[27:29.840 -> 27:33.480] footballers listen to this podcast, so I think we'd love them to hear you talking like this,
[27:33.480 -> 27:38.440] but also we have a huge swathe of young men that listen to this podcast, and so many of
[27:38.440 -> 27:43.280] them will feel that same feeling you had, which is, I tell you my problems, I'm burdening
[27:43.280 -> 27:45.040] you. And I would love them
[27:45.040 -> 27:48.560] to hear you sort of talk about how enlightened you've been. Actually that
[27:48.560 -> 27:51.480] isn't what it does to people you know if you now go to your wife tonight and say I've
[27:51.480 -> 27:54.200] got a bit of an issue is she gonna feel burdened or is she gonna say thanks for
[27:54.200 -> 27:57.560] telling me? Because it makes our life so much better together. You were
[27:57.560 -> 28:01.640] already burdening your wife by being silent, not being at home, going to the gym.
[28:01.640 -> 28:09.760] You know you were burdening other people. Yeah, without knowing. Yeah, definitely. And actually I was quite
[28:09.760 -> 28:15.480] lucky that Steve just come along, you know, because I wasn't looking for it. I'm
[28:15.480 -> 28:21.720] very lucky with the career that I've had and that was a really big moment for me,
[28:21.720 -> 28:26.800] a lucky moment that he just stumbled across and it really made a massive difference.
[28:26.800 -> 28:29.600] And I really want to talk about the positive stuff here by the way,
[28:29.600 -> 28:32.600] like I want to talk about building culture, winning titles,
[28:32.600 -> 28:34.800] what Jürgen's done for you, what Brendan did for you,
[28:34.800 -> 28:38.800] but I think before we move on, we've got a really unique opportunity
[28:38.800 -> 28:42.600] just to have a brief conversation about the scrutiny on footballers
[28:42.600 -> 28:48.240] and the conversation around footballers and the impact it has on them and you know whether it is you arriving in Liverpool
[28:48.240 -> 28:53.320] and questions that you know made you go and seek a conversation with someone and
[28:53.320 -> 28:57.200] put you into a really dark place or whether it's you know much more recently
[28:57.200 -> 29:00.680] a teammate of yours Trent Alexander-Arnold all that noise around a guy
[29:00.680 -> 29:05.440] who was in his early 20s on on a big stage, doing his best.
[29:05.440 -> 29:07.880] I'd love just to give you a platform
[29:07.880 -> 29:11.200] to kind of open up to us about what it's actually like,
[29:11.200 -> 29:13.040] the impact it does have on people.
[29:13.040 -> 29:14.960] We had Danny Cipriani say to us recently,
[29:14.960 -> 29:18.280] he doesn't believe that footballers in this country
[29:18.280 -> 29:21.000] are free to express themselves and play
[29:21.000 -> 29:23.240] in the way that they could because of scrutiny,
[29:23.240 -> 29:28.100] because of pressure, because of thinking, what will the impact be, you know, like there's no freedom
[29:28.100 -> 29:31.280] anymore because there's so much opinion surrounding people.
[29:31.280 -> 29:33.120] Does that ring true?
[29:33.120 -> 29:36.800] Yeah, I suppose in a certain way.
[29:36.800 -> 29:47.600] Footballers get a lot of criticism for a lot of different things and actually in the teams that I've played in, 99% of them have been top, top people.
[29:47.600 -> 29:54.160] You know, great people, people that do a lot for other people, people that do go
[29:54.160 -> 29:59.000] above and beyond for everybody else, treat staff well, do a lot for charities
[29:59.000 -> 30:03.960] outside of football that people won't even know about. And I haven't really
[30:03.960 -> 30:05.300] come across anybody that I would say that I didn't even know about and I haven't really come across anybody that
[30:05.300 -> 30:10.100] I would say that I didn't really get along with. Yes you have arguments, yes
[30:10.100 -> 30:17.780] you have fights and things like that but when I look back as a person I
[30:17.780 -> 30:22.860] would always see good in them really. There's not one player I would
[30:22.860 -> 30:25.600] say I look back at and think I hate
[30:25.600 -> 30:28.240] him. I wouldn't even want to speak to him.
[30:28.240 -> 30:34.000] And then you see the viability coming their way on social media. Would you tell us, for
[30:34.000 -> 30:38.440] people that think it's just a throwaway tweet or a little comment that they don't see, what
[30:38.440 -> 30:39.440] is the true impact?
[30:39.440 -> 30:45.000] I think it does have an impact. I think social media has grew throughout my career really.
[30:45.000 -> 30:51.000] I would say at the start of my career social media wasn't really that big and it's grew and grew and grew and grew.
[30:51.000 -> 30:58.000] Now there's a lot of positives in social media as we all know but I think it can have a negative impact on players.
[30:58.000 -> 31:06.000] You could say well just don't go on social media but somehow it always seems to find you. I would say as a player
[31:06.000 -> 31:13.280] especially at the top level I would say you know somehow whether it's your friends saying
[31:13.280 -> 31:17.360] have you seen this and why is he saying that you know trying to protect you but it's coming to you
[31:17.360 -> 31:30.840] that way or maybe in in the news or when you're doing interviews and you get asked questions and it's like, alright, so it'll always find a way to, so you know what's sort of being said
[31:30.840 -> 31:35.520] whether that's the fans or the outside world and if it's a tough period and
[31:35.520 -> 31:40.200] tough time, it is so difficult for players, especially young players, to deal with.
[31:40.200 -> 31:44.160] You know, a lot of people say, well, that's part and parcel of football and
[31:44.160 -> 31:46.040] footballers get well
[31:46.040 -> 31:51.240] paid and that comes with the territory, you've got to deal with it. But suppose when you're
[31:51.240 -> 31:57.560] a young kid you don't really think about money or you don't think about being a superstar
[31:57.560 -> 32:02.840] or people looking up to you really, you just think about playing football. As a kid you
[32:02.840 -> 32:07.740] just want to be a footballer because you love playing football and you look up to
[32:08.340 -> 32:10.340] the people that are playing at that time so
[32:10.740 -> 32:16.980] to then get to that stage and have to deal with that it can be pretty tough and I think
[32:17.540 -> 32:23.180] as well you look at ex-players that have played the game and know what it's like
[32:23.980 -> 32:25.760] to then in the media
[32:25.760 -> 32:30.760] see some of the stuff that they do see. I find that even more difficult to accept
[32:30.760 -> 32:34.360] really. I know that they probably wouldn't accept when they were playing
[32:34.360 -> 32:38.560] and wouldn't think it was fair when they were playing but they come out of that
[32:38.560 -> 32:43.280] and all of a sudden they use other people for them to be a platform for them.
[32:43.280 -> 32:45.280] Not really thinking about the impact that it's having on players now. i ddweud, dwi'n meddwl, y byddai'r cyfleoedd a'r bobl eraill i fod yn y platfform arnyn nhw,
[32:45.280 -> 32:49.840] nid yn meddwl am y cymryd sydd ar y chwaraeon nawr.
[32:49.840 -> 32:55.360] Felly, a ydych chi'n dweud wrthym, Jordan, fe wnaethom ymgyrchu Grant Hanley cyn y Euros yn y blwyddyn diwethaf,
[32:55.360 -> 33:00.160] ac roedd yn siarad am, roedd yn ysgrifennu ei hunain fel bod yn ysgol yn ddiogelwch,
[33:00.160 -> 33:08.240] ac un o'r pethau sydd wedi'i ymdrechu gyda ni oedd dod i'r ddrethi a gweld ei cymdeithaswyr, with was coming in the dressing room and seeing his teammates, the younger ones, going on social media to almost determine
[33:08.720 -> 33:12.160] what the view of their performance was rather than looking around
[33:12.160 -> 33:15.160] the dressing room and going, ask for feedback from the people in there.
[33:15.160 -> 33:15.920] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[33:15.920 -> 33:19.280] So when you go in the Liverpool dressing room after a defeat
[33:19.280 -> 33:22.800] of a setback, do you see teammates going on social media?
[33:22.800 -> 33:25.000] To be fair, there's a lot of lads going on the phone.
[33:25.000 -> 33:31.000] Now whether or not they're going on social media to see whether the fans have said they've had a good performance or not, I don't know.
[33:31.000 -> 33:36.000] But it is a lot more mobile phone orientated after you're going in the dressing room.
[33:36.000 -> 33:42.000] Now we try to get the music on, especially when you win.
[33:42.000 -> 33:48.720] You want to celebrate your win in the game, that's what you're playing, you want to win. So get the music on, try and celebrate but
[33:48.720 -> 33:52.360] of course it's not long before people are on the phone. I think your self-worth
[33:52.360 -> 33:56.760] though is wrapped up in it and I think it's easy for people to say oh just
[33:56.760 -> 34:00.360] ignore it or don't go on there. I work with former players who as soon as
[34:00.360 -> 34:08.760] there's an ad break you look over, not only on the phone they're typing their name into Twitter to see what people comment are yeah and I and I I
[34:08.760 -> 34:12.400] actually have a slightly different viewpoint to you I couldn't even imagine
[34:12.400 -> 34:16.600] doing that like I know that my bosses see it and I know that football fans at
[34:16.600 -> 34:20.400] home see it and I know that the pundits I'm working with see it and on my
[34:20.400 -> 34:23.280] opinion actually is if well if they're all seeing it I'd like to know what's
[34:23.280 -> 34:25.680] being said now I really struggle with it.
[34:25.680 -> 34:27.420] It's the biggest source of my own,
[34:29.120 -> 34:30.920] not mental health struggles, but my stress.
[34:30.920 -> 34:33.200] It's the biggest source of stress in my life.
[34:33.200 -> 34:35.560] It's just whatever I do,
[34:35.560 -> 34:37.240] since I've been a football presenter.
[34:37.240 -> 34:39.000] It happened less when I did Formula One and other stuff,
[34:39.000 -> 34:40.680] but again, social media was different then, right?
[34:40.680 -> 34:41.920] So I think it's not,
[34:41.920 -> 34:43.960] it's just because it's grown in the time I've worked,
[34:43.960 -> 34:47.640] but that you do your best. You get in the car to go home and it's
[34:47.640 -> 34:53.640] just pelters and you're thinking you've got no idea like yeah what is involved
[34:53.640 -> 34:57.080] in making a TV show so there's a reason why I did this or did that or said this
[34:57.080 -> 35:01.760] or that it gets taken out of context entirely yeah but then you don't have
[35:01.760 -> 35:05.360] people on Twitter going can you explain that please? And you think, not here.
[35:05.360 -> 35:08.280] The place to explain to you why I did that,
[35:08.280 -> 35:09.680] and I might not get things right all the time,
[35:09.680 -> 35:11.760] is absolutely not on Twitter.
[35:11.760 -> 35:13.780] The place to do that is if you really care.
[35:13.780 -> 35:16.760] Like, call, find the number, send an email address,
[35:16.760 -> 35:17.600] do you know what I mean?
[35:17.600 -> 35:19.680] And I think it's not dissimilar for you
[35:19.680 -> 35:22.240] that people are making a judgment on your performances
[35:22.240 -> 35:23.240] or your teammates' performances
[35:23.240 -> 35:25.000] with 5% of
[35:25.000 -> 35:27.000] the knowledge of what is going on?
[35:27.000 -> 35:29.000] Ring a bell?
[35:29.000 -> 35:35.800] 100% yeah. 100%. And I mean, it's sort of easier for me now to deal with because I've
[35:35.800 -> 35:40.040] more experience than, you know, I've gone through that stage. But when you're a young
[35:40.040 -> 35:45.160] player and you're coming into that, honestly it must be so, so difficult to deal
[35:45.160 -> 35:49.840] with when you're maybe not playing as well as you can or the team's not performing too
[35:49.840 -> 35:57.880] well and when you're at the level that we're at it can be really difficult and you see
[35:57.880 -> 36:01.440] when you're watching players play, you can see the confidence has gone and they're not
[36:01.440 -> 36:05.120] quite the same and all of that, all that negativity
[36:05.120 -> 36:11.680] mustn't help at all. So I would say if it got to a point where you felt as though social
[36:11.680 -> 36:17.160] media or other people's comments were starting to affect you, come off social media.
[36:17.160 -> 36:20.680] What else do you do to put your arm around those players that are struggling?
[36:20.680 -> 36:27.520] I try and help a lot in terms of the younger plaid ifanc, nid dim ond i mi, mae llawer o ddynion gwych yn ein tîm,
[36:27.520 -> 36:33.000] plaid ifanc sy'n brifysgol sy'n helpu'r blaid ifanc i ddod ymlaen a teimlo'n hyderus yn y ddresning rhwm
[36:33.000 -> 36:38.000] ac yn teimlo'n ffordd y gallent ddod a'u cyfrifol a gwneud yr hyn y maen nhw'n ymwneud â nhw,
[36:38.000 -> 36:40.000] ac yn ymdrechur.
[36:40.000 -> 36:45.440] Ond hefyd mae'r rhif fathau sy'n dod ymlaen a gwybod beth sy'n cael ei gofyn i chwarae ar gyfer Liverpool Also that set standards, that the young lads come in and they know what's expected to play
[36:45.440 -> 36:49.800] for Liverpool and to be in this dressing room. So we've got a great balance of that and I
[36:49.800 -> 36:55.920] think that comes with, you've got to recognise actually when somebody is struggling, you
[36:55.920 -> 37:01.440] need to try and help them in the best way you can. Obviously everyone's different so
[37:01.440 -> 37:09.240] you've got to approach it in different ways. But I try my best to sense when I think somebody needs a bit of help.
[37:09.240 -> 37:13.960] There's so much stuff that I want to ask you that I find fascinating around you.
[37:13.960 -> 37:19.600] Some of it is paradoxes that really intrigue me around your story Jordan.
[37:19.600 -> 37:25.600] I think one of them, just in relation to this conversation here is around, we talk about
[37:25.600 -> 37:31.200] social media and that comparison culture of being caught up in what, like, what do they
[37:31.200 -> 37:33.000] say, what do they think of me.
[37:33.000 -> 37:37.840] And at the start of your book, it's really intriguing, opening where you say, you can't
[37:37.840 -> 37:42.600] compare me to Graham Sooners, you can't compare me to Tommy Smith, you can't compare me to
[37:42.600 -> 37:47.280] Phil Thompson, and you list all these great captains of Liverpool
[37:47.280 -> 37:50.800] where you almost go out your way to avoid the comparison
[37:50.800 -> 37:52.840] to say I'm not in their league.
[37:52.840 -> 37:56.480] And I think I get having met you the selflessness
[37:56.480 -> 37:59.400] of not wanting to be seen as being big headed
[37:59.400 -> 38:02.660] or trying to put yourself in that category.
[38:02.660 -> 38:06.400] So I'm interested in terms of that sense of self
[38:06.400 -> 38:09.920] that you have, that integrity, that self-confidence
[38:09.920 -> 38:13.160] without getting dragged into that comparison culture
[38:13.160 -> 38:14.960] that you seem to avoid.
[38:14.960 -> 38:18.440] I'm just interested in how you consciously do that.
[38:18.440 -> 38:21.560] Looking back again, when I was doing the book,
[38:21.560 -> 38:25.600] there's definitely a self-belief, definitely. I'm probably
[38:25.600 -> 38:29.480] just not one that likes to talk about it. I said to you my favorite story in the
[38:29.480 -> 38:40.400] book is when Roy Keane comes in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're all sitting in there. Tell us that story because I love the fact that, like you say, you're a shy kid, you don't make a
[38:40.400 -> 38:44.160] fuss, you've got a reputation, you beat that horrible term, you're busy because you
[38:44.160 -> 38:47.000] stay behind doing extras, your dad's helping you with
[38:47.000 -> 38:51.520] it and then Roy Keane comes in tell us the story because I think people would love that.
[38:51.520 -> 38:58.840] So we had a game it was a friendly game at Sunderland
[38:58.840 -> 39:07.240] under 21 the 23s at the time away to Gateshead which isn't far, half an hour or so from Sunderland.
[39:07.240 -> 39:14.520] So we had a game at Gateshead, wasn't great at all, didn't play very well as a team. I
[39:14.520 -> 39:18.840] don't even think Roy went to the game, I think it was his staff that went to the game and
[39:18.840 -> 39:23.400] really bad day, let's put it that way. Getting the coach back to the training ground from
[39:23.400 -> 39:30.280] Gateshead and while we were on the coach, our coach has come to us and said, everybody's got to go into the
[39:30.280 -> 39:38.280] training ground when we get there because the gaffer's coming in, Roy, to see us. Everyone's
[39:38.280 -> 39:40.160] face just went white.
[39:40.160 -> 39:45.680] Remind us how old you are at the time. Must have been 18.
[39:45.680 -> 39:52.920] And we all go into the training ground and we're sort of waiting in this room and Roy
[39:52.920 -> 40:00.000] comes in and says, well basically like sort of scattered around the room and he sort of
[40:00.000 -> 40:04.880] starts off with something like along the lines of, he said this f***ing sums you lot up,
[40:04.880 -> 40:06.880] f***ing here, there, get together.
[40:07.760 -> 40:14.560] Literally he just goes round everyone individually, around, I think somebody just signed and said,
[40:14.560 -> 40:22.480] we've just paid whatever for you, who the f*** do you think you are? Going round and talking about
[40:22.480 -> 40:26.000] the game not good enough and basically went round and it was heated and I'm going round and talking about the game not good enough and basically went round and
[40:26.000 -> 40:31.720] it was heated and I'm just standing there thinking, if he comes to me I'm just, I was
[40:31.720 -> 40:37.760] just dripping with sweat. But anyway he gets to me and sort of just looks at us and says,
[40:37.760 -> 40:45.420] do you think you could play in the first team? And just my response, I don't know how or why, my response was just like yeah.
[40:45.420 -> 40:51.460] And he went, good, because the staff said you're the only one that was running
[40:51.460 -> 40:56.660] around or something along them lines and then he moved on and I'm like, thank God for that.
[40:56.660 -> 41:04.000] I can relax a little bit now but it was intense you know and I suppose in that
[41:04.000 -> 41:07.520] moment I didn't know why, you know, normally I would
[41:07.520 -> 41:11.720] maybe have, but I was self-belief, just, yeah, I do.
[41:11.720 -> 41:15.960] Because you describe yourself as being lucky, but like that definition of luck is when opportunity
[41:15.960 -> 41:21.720] meets preparation and that to me in the story was, that's your opportunity, but you back
[41:21.720 -> 41:30.040] yourself and that's the bit that really stood out for me. Yeah, I would always back myself, but I would always back myself inside.
[41:30.040 -> 41:35.400] I'd never really seen the point of coming out and backing myself and speaking and talking
[41:35.400 -> 41:37.480] and telling people about backing myself.
[41:37.480 -> 41:40.840] I never really felt that was... felt like, why?
[41:40.840 -> 41:43.600] I'll just sort of do me talking on the pitch.
[41:43.600 -> 41:47.600] So tell us how you develop that then, because I'm interested in the stuff that goes on.
[41:47.600 -> 41:53.400] So, if I'm a coach at Sunderland, I'm seeing this really quiet lad that's coming in and just getting on with the job
[41:53.400 -> 42:00.000] and you're running around even, you're not being dragged down to the level of what everybody else seems to be descending to.
[42:00.000 -> 42:03.600] What is it you've done that people listening to this could go,
[42:03.600 -> 42:08.800] I want to have that quiet resolve, that inner steel to be able to stand up?
[42:08.800 -> 42:12.800] So what were the kind of techniques and tips that you could pass on
[42:12.800 -> 42:15.600] to build that sense of confidence to back yourself?
[42:16.720 -> 42:21.600] Honestly, looking back to certain things, I actually don't know,
[42:23.200 -> 42:26.680] is the honest answer. Like, I just did it.
[42:26.680 -> 42:30.400] And the only thing I can probably think of
[42:30.400 -> 42:34.960] is I felt as though I was always the one
[42:34.960 -> 42:37.160] that people never backed.
[42:37.160 -> 42:39.720] I was always the one that was maybe second best
[42:39.720 -> 42:42.440] or people never thought I'd make it.
[42:42.440 -> 42:43.840] They always thought somebody else,
[42:43.840 -> 42:48.680] like one of my friends would make it because he was better or if it was like play of the
[42:48.680 -> 42:53.040] year yeah I'd maybe win it but joint with somebody else when I was really
[42:53.040 -> 43:00.320] young so I always felt people would never back me. That I
[43:00.320 -> 43:06.280] suppose then brought like an anger inside so when I played I sort of let
[43:06.280 -> 43:11.920] that anger go and I still now I'm quite emotional when I play and I was like
[43:11.920 -> 43:15.160] that when I was a kid you know I was so emotional when I played because I used
[43:15.160 -> 43:20.680] all of that negativity and that anger from people doubting us when I was
[43:20.680 -> 43:26.600] younger to when I was on the pitch I pitch I just used that as my fuel really to
[43:26.600 -> 43:32.840] just really prove people wrong. I'd say the Champions League trophy was the moment for
[43:32.840 -> 43:38.760] me personally. I just felt as though that was everything that I was striving for. Looking
[43:38.760 -> 43:47.040] back watching Champions League games at my house, at my friend's house. Went to a Champions League final with my dad
[43:47.040 -> 43:54.640] at Old Trafford when I was about 13 around that time to then finally win it after losing
[43:54.640 -> 44:00.800] the final the year before was just like an out-of-body experience really when it happened.
[44:00.800 -> 44:08.560] It was just an incredible feeling and I just felt like everything that had worked for me entire life was for that moment.
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[48:39.320 -> 49:06.800] to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com.hpp. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. When did you first the sense that this is someone that could bring something special and what happened to make you think that?
[49:06.800 -> 49:09.040] Honestly, the first day.
[49:09.040 -> 49:15.440] I know it's easy to say that now but I think even the fans, you look back to his first
[49:15.440 -> 49:21.440] press conference, I think straight away everybody was in and knew we were on a journey here.
[49:21.440 -> 49:22.920] But for us it was the same.
[49:22.920 -> 49:29.160] What happened? We're on a journey here, but for us it was the same. The first meeting, first time I met him, the aura, the presence, just everything about
[49:29.160 -> 49:35.120] him really was, it just felt special.
[49:35.120 -> 49:37.640] Obviously had a bit of background before he came at Dortmund.
[49:37.640 -> 49:43.020] I can remember seeing, I think the story in the book about when we went for Carra's leave
[49:43.020 -> 49:47.520] and due and went to watch Dortmund play Madrid in the Bernabeu. yn y llyfr oeddwn i'n mynd i'r Carras, i'r Burnaby, a gweld Dortmund chwarae Madrid.
[49:47.520 -> 49:54.480] Rwy'n credu bod hwn yn y pen draw, felly dyna'r pen draw oedd yn cymryd y pen draw i ddod i'r llawysgrif.
[49:54.480 -> 50:00.080] Ond y ffordd y gwnaethon nhw chwarae, y ffordd oedd yn anhygoel i'w gweld,
[50:00.080 -> 50:06.000] a rwy'n teimlo'n wir, mae'r peth hwnnw yn y ffordd rwy'n chwarae ffotbol. and I really felt like watching it, that really suited my game and the way that I played football.
[50:06.000 -> 50:16.000] When Jürgen came to Liverpool I was quite excited that actually I feel as though this could really benefit and suit me in the way I play football.
[50:16.000 -> 50:27.520] At the beginning it didn't turn out like that because I was injured. I'd just been made captain not long before. New manager coming in, you want to impress, you want to be there, especially as captain.
[50:27.520 -> 50:35.360] So I had a foot issue, which was really difficult. Again, injury, we talk about
[50:36.160 -> 50:40.880] mental health, but for a professional athlete, injury is probably one of the hardest
[50:41.520 -> 50:49.040] periods to go through. And I had one of them when Jurgen first came. So it was really difficult for the first six months or
[50:49.040 -> 50:53.720] the first week I think he took over in like September, October time so that
[50:53.720 -> 50:58.320] first season when he come in was was difficult for me but the impact he had
[50:58.320 -> 51:02.020] on the team from the from the work goal was incredible you know on the end of
[51:02.020 -> 51:08.840] that season. I think we got to a Carabao Cup final, lost on penalties and we got to the Europa League final and
[51:08.840 -> 51:12.960] lost against Seville so you could see we're going in the right direction and
[51:12.960 -> 51:18.800] it probably wasn't until after that season when I really then was fit and
[51:18.800 -> 51:20.960] playing pretty much every game.
[51:20.960 -> 51:26.240] And can you remember what he said or did in those first couple of weeks that made you
[51:26.240 -> 51:31.000] sit up and realise that you were at the start of something special?
[51:31.000 -> 51:32.000] Everything.
[51:32.000 -> 51:40.000] I mean from the first meeting and he was speaking to us as a group, just how clear he was, the
[51:40.000 -> 51:47.680] understanding, his presence, you just felt as though everybody was just locked on.
[51:47.680 -> 51:52.200] Isn't that always the way with a new manager? Because all of your hopes and dreams as a
[51:52.200 -> 51:55.320] footballer are wrapped up in this person as well.
[51:55.320 -> 52:07.440] Yes, but Jürgen's really impressive I think as a person. If you're speaking here, he's just so charismatic and just a really impressive
[52:07.440 -> 52:12.600] person when you meet him really. Very self-confident and that came across to the players straight
[52:12.600 -> 52:17.520] away and I think the first game I can remember I was injured but I went down to watch against
[52:17.520 -> 52:23.520] Spurs and the impact he had within the first couple of days in that game was crazy. Like
[52:23.520 -> 52:28.760] the stats, the running stats, the intensity watching the game was off the charts really.
[52:28.760 -> 52:33.840] Now I know a manager can have an impact but this impact for me was
[52:33.840 -> 52:38.120] another level really. So training sessions, you know I couldn't train so
[52:38.120 -> 52:42.800] I'd sort of be watching from the balcony at Melwood or I'd go outside and try and
[52:42.800 -> 52:48.160] watch training just to get a feel of what it was like and it was just like completely different or anything
[52:48.160 -> 52:53.680] I'd ever seen before. Just the sessions that were put on it was just
[52:53.680 -> 52:58.000] like wow this is this is just totally different or anything I've ever done and
[52:58.000 -> 53:00.160] to watch it was hard.
[53:00.160 -> 53:06.000] Do you remember anything you got you doing you're're thinking, or not you but the lads,
[53:06.000 -> 53:08.000] what is this?
[53:08.000 -> 53:10.000] I suppose a lot of it was
[53:10.000 -> 53:12.000] the intensity level of everything
[53:12.000 -> 53:14.000] you know, was through the roof
[53:14.000 -> 53:16.000] and a lot of it was
[53:16.000 -> 53:18.000] making you think about
[53:18.000 -> 53:20.000] the next situation quickly
[53:20.000 -> 53:22.000] without having time
[53:22.000 -> 53:24.000] to dwell or anything like that, so whether that would be
[53:24.000 -> 53:25.000] like a shooting session.
[53:25.000 -> 53:33.000] The shooting sessions that I've done in the past would be, you maybe played in, someone set you, finish, get in the queue or whatever,
[53:33.000 -> 53:40.000] and you do little sets and finishing and you work on it after training. But even with a shooting session or something as basic as that,
[53:40.000 -> 53:45.280] became this sort of, you'd be be passing then you'd be receiving one
[53:45.280 -> 53:48.880] straight away then you'd have a shot but then the cross would be coming in and
[53:48.880 -> 53:53.880] you're just constantly having to think about so the first time that you do it
[53:53.880 -> 53:59.640] it can be a bit of carnage really, balls flying everywhere and they'll be
[53:59.640 -> 54:03.320] pulling their hair out going what you're not getting you know and it takes a
[54:03.320 -> 54:09.040] little bit of time or once or twice to go through it to get the hang of it but once you get going you're sort of watching
[54:09.040 -> 54:10.600] it and it's just happening so quickly.
[54:10.600 -> 54:15.800] How challenging was it for you that you were injured when he came because suddenly all
[54:15.800 -> 54:18.960] these lads have got the chance to impress this new manager and you're thinking, hold
[54:18.960 -> 54:22.680] on a minute, you only get one chance to make a good first impression.
[54:22.680 -> 54:28.280] Yeah, that was really tough, really tough, especially when I was captain of the team
[54:29.240 -> 54:34.480] So I tried me best to watch training sessions. So when I was back in I knew
[54:35.080 -> 54:39.020] Sort of what was going on. I traveled with the team the games
[54:39.020 -> 54:44.080] I wanted to be around as much as possible to take as much information from him as I could
[54:44.280 -> 54:48.640] Even though I couldn't train and play I I wanted to get a feeling for what he wanted.
[54:48.680 -> 54:53.240] So when I was fit, I sort of knew and understood exactly what was needed.
[54:53.240 -> 54:58.240] So yeah, I'd travel to all the games and sit in the stands and then I'd watch
[54:58.240 -> 54:59.360] training as much as I could.
[54:59.360 -> 55:01.000] Obviously got me own rehab plan as well.
[55:01.560 -> 55:03.080] And is that a bit of self-preservation?
[55:03.080 -> 55:05.360] Like I'm here, I'm gonna be around, I'm gonna
[55:05.360 -> 55:10.440] stand two feet from you at all times to remind you that I'm the captain? Yeah, I think the
[55:10.440 -> 55:15.680] gaffer looking back was a bit like, haven't you got rehab to be doing? Why are you here?
[55:15.680 -> 55:22.400] Sort of thing. You know, he's thinking, why is he? But I think he understood that there
[55:22.400 -> 55:29.720] was probably a little bit of insecurity there from me. But even that is great management, to allow you to feel that he understands that.
[55:29.720 -> 55:34.080] I guess there was one-to-ones as well. Do you remember what was said in those early on?
[55:34.080 -> 55:42.160] Yeah, Jürgen's great, he's always been great on one-to-ones, always makes you feel good and
[55:42.160 -> 55:47.200] you feel as though it's genuine and he's being honest as well. So yeah, every
[55:47.200 -> 55:51.440] time I'd speak to him it would be fine and great and it would be like, can't wait to
[55:51.440 -> 55:56.800] get you back in and things like that. But then I might not see him for a few weeks because
[55:56.800 -> 56:02.200] I'm not training, I'm on a different schedule than everyone else. So it was difficult at
[56:02.200 -> 56:07.000] that period in time and like I say it took probably a bit of time for me to then come Felly roedd yn anodd ar y cyfnod a'r amser. Fel rydw i'n ei ddweud, roedd yn gobeithio yn cymaint o amser i mi ymlaen i ddod yn ôl,
[56:07.000 -> 56:10.000] cael ffytnos dda ac ymlaen i fynd o'rno,
[56:10.000 -> 56:13.000] a oedd e'n debyg yn ddiweddar,
[56:13.000 -> 56:16.000] na'r lle o'r lle cyntaf, ond yn y lle cyntaf.
[56:16.000 -> 56:19.000] Nawr, mae ystafellau ddrethi, yn enwedig ar y lefel elit,
[56:19.000 -> 56:22.000] y byddwch chi'n gweithio mewn lleoedd eithaf brwtol
[56:22.000 -> 56:24.000] lle rydych chi'n teimlo rhywun yn ddod allan,
[56:24.000 -> 56:30.120] rydych chi'n edrych ar y ddifrif. can be pretty brutal places where like you're feeling somebody out, you're looking for that weakness. What was the moment when with Jürgen that you
[56:30.120 -> 56:34.280] realised that he'd been tested and you thought this fella's the real deal here?
[56:34.280 -> 56:38.000] Was there a particular incident or anything that stands out for you?
[56:38.000 -> 56:43.240] I think you felt that from what he did at Dortmund, you know, and what he already
[56:43.240 -> 56:47.240] achieved and the way he was, you could sense that straight away.
[56:47.240 -> 56:48.680] That's what I'm saying.
[56:48.680 -> 56:51.280] There was never any doubt for me, really.
[56:51.360 -> 56:54.560] Looking back, there wasn't doubt from the dressing room, from the players.
[56:55.360 -> 56:59.320] And he was very, very demanding and intense.
[56:59.840 -> 57:05.760] And at times it was a bit like, I can remember when he first came one of the first things
[57:05.760 -> 57:12.440] he changed was normally for most of our career up until that point we just trained in the
[57:12.440 -> 57:13.440] morning.
[57:13.440 -> 57:18.800] It would be like come in for 9.30, 10 or whatever, train at 11, half 11.
[57:18.800 -> 57:26.260] But we were training at afternoons and times that if we're playing on a night game then
[57:26.260 -> 57:30.680] we train later on the day so maybe if it was a night game at half seven we
[57:30.680 -> 57:34.680] wouldn't train at half seven but we train closer to that time to sort of get
[57:34.680 -> 57:38.360] the body ready for that time of playing which actually when you think about it
[57:38.360 -> 57:43.200] sort of makes sense. So we started training at maybe four or five o'clock
[57:43.200 -> 57:45.840] at some times. What was Creatures of Habit?
[57:45.840 -> 57:50.060] Were they like moaning? Yeah, yeah, so at that time it's a little bit like
[57:50.880 -> 57:54.040] four or five o'clock training. So you're coming in and
[57:54.680 -> 57:59.320] you've sort of had a full day and then the lads were coming in and they felt a bit
[58:00.120 -> 58:02.120] lethargic or they felt a bit tired and
[58:02.640 -> 58:07.520] especially at this time of the year now, you know four or five o'clock it's getting dark so you're going out the floodlights are on
[58:07.520 -> 58:11.640] and you're just starting the train. So I was at the back of the train, this is a tough
[58:11.640 -> 58:16.240] show anyway, the lads pulled me, a few of them, and said listen do you think
[58:16.240 -> 58:21.880] four or five o'clock could we not have it earlier? And as captain I felt as
[58:21.880 -> 58:25.640] though I needed to at least ask the question.
[58:25.640 -> 58:29.960] So I thought, okay, I'm going to have to go up and speak to the gaffer.
[58:29.960 -> 58:34.600] So I went up to the gaffer and I said, gaffer, I said, a few of the lads are struggling with
[58:34.600 -> 58:39.960] these late training times, feel a bit tired and stuff.
[58:39.960 -> 58:43.760] Is there any way we could sort of train in the morning?
[58:43.760 -> 58:51.240] And he sort of looked at us and said, who said that? Who's moaning about it? And I thought I can't
[58:51.240 -> 58:54.840] see any names here, I can't be chucking people under the
[58:54.840 -> 58:59.160] bus. So I said well there's quite a few gaffers and that's why I've sort of come
[58:59.160 -> 59:02.760] because there's only one or two obviously but there's quite a few that
[59:02.760 -> 59:10.040] think earlier training and he's just gone, I'll tell them if anybody's got an issue with
[59:10.040 -> 59:14.400] training time tell them to come and tell me and speak to me directly.
[59:14.400 -> 59:20.000] Okay that's the last time I ever go and ask for anything like that again. So I've walked out and gone to the Lads
[59:20.000 -> 59:25.440] and gone, you've got no chance but if you want it that badly just go and speak
[59:25.440 -> 59:30.400] with him yourself. No one ever went up.
[59:30.400 -> 59:34.840] The reason I asked John is that again looking from outside in I was always
[59:34.840 -> 59:39.920] intrigued by some of the decisions that he made early on where you know he let
[59:39.920 -> 59:46.580] people go out on loan and left himself short at times, whether it was in defense or, you know,
[59:46.580 -> 59:49.960] like he made some decisions that I think were setting down
[59:49.960 -> 59:54.020] the standard of you put the team above your self-interest,
[59:54.020 -> 59:56.380] this kind of discipline and things like that.
[59:56.380 -> 59:58.420] And that's what I'm interested in,
[59:58.420 -> 01:00:02.060] how he laid down the marker, like the training times,
[01:00:02.060 -> 01:00:04.580] whether there were other incidents where he thought,
[01:00:04.580 -> 01:00:08.240] this fellow's not gonna compromise here. We have to get on board with his ways not
[01:00:08.240 -> 01:00:12.760] the other way around? Oh that was like that from first minute, yeah.
[01:00:12.760 -> 01:00:18.520] There was no... again that being the perfect example of
[01:00:18.520 -> 01:00:24.160] training time, there was just no way. It was this is the way we're going to do it
[01:00:24.160 -> 01:00:27.040] because I know this is what works and
[01:00:27.040 -> 01:00:33.040] I know by doing it this way we'll become successful and if you don't want to do it that way then
[01:00:33.040 -> 01:00:34.840] there's the door really.
[01:00:34.840 -> 01:00:37.560] And did he do that with players?
[01:00:37.560 -> 01:00:43.360] Yeah I think so. I think if players didn't particularly like it or they couldn't really
[01:00:43.360 -> 01:00:45.480] cope for whatever reason,
[01:00:45.480 -> 01:00:49.560] then I think the gaffer at the beginning always said that if a player wanted to leave he would
[01:00:49.560 -> 01:00:56.480] never stand in the way. I think straight away that sets the mark tone. Even for me it's
[01:00:56.480 -> 01:01:03.360] like, oh okay, I remember being linked to other clubs and it wasn't a complete shutdown
[01:01:03.360 -> 01:01:09.120] at that moment, which again plays on your insecurities a little bit but looking back that's him
[01:01:09.120 -> 01:01:15.800] setting the tone as if to say you know I know what his success looks like and if
[01:01:15.800 -> 01:01:19.400] you're not on board and you want to go elsewhere then no problem but this is
[01:01:19.400 -> 01:01:28.480] the way we're doing it and get on board. And to be fair, majority if not everyone get on board
[01:01:28.480 -> 01:01:33.080] pretty quick because like I said he's really impressive what he'd done before
[01:01:33.080 -> 01:01:39.440] at Dortmund and Mines and the way he played. You knew that if you got on board then
[01:01:39.440 -> 01:01:43.240] you got a good chance of being successful and that's what
[01:01:43.240 -> 01:01:48.680] ultimately what you want as players. I always think it's easy to judge someone when they're successful because they're doing
[01:01:48.680 -> 01:01:54.240] well right? I'm very interested in what people are like when the success doesn't come. So
[01:01:54.240 -> 01:01:58.520] what was he like in that first season when you lost the Europa League final and you lost
[01:01:58.520 -> 01:02:02.960] the Carabao Cup final? Do you remember that? There was that narrative wasn't there? Again,
[01:02:02.960 -> 01:02:06.520] people like me probably responsible for it in the media about Jurgen Klopp doesn't win finals. Do you
[01:02:06.520 -> 01:02:10.240] remember that conversation that people were having? So I'm interested from the
[01:02:10.240 -> 01:02:15.280] inside how he dealt with all of you to keep you believing. Brilliant, totally
[01:02:15.280 -> 01:02:20.480] different to what I've ever experienced and what you probably think he would
[01:02:20.480 -> 01:02:26.320] deal with it as like but the perspective that he thinks about them things is incredible.
[01:02:26.960 -> 01:02:34.960] I can remember losing the Europa League final and that was the second final losing I think that year
[01:02:35.760 -> 01:02:40.000] and going back to the hotel where if we won there'd have been a party and all of that sort of stuff
[01:02:41.600 -> 01:02:49.560] and as a player you just so down,, the big moment, European final, lost, you just want
[01:02:49.560 -> 01:02:54.600] to go to bed really and just try to sleep, get up, go back in the morning.
[01:02:54.600 -> 01:02:59.260] But I remember there was a few of us just sitting in the corner, just because he basically
[01:02:59.260 -> 01:03:10.200] said everybody, when we get back everybody's down to the reception bar area. They're thinking, right, okay, so everybody comes down and a few of us are just sort of
[01:03:10.200 -> 01:03:13.840] sitting in the corner with sort of our tails between our legs thinking like,
[01:03:13.840 -> 01:03:20.520] what we're doing here? Again, just different mentality of we've just lost,
[01:03:20.520 -> 01:03:29.080] we just wanna... but he sort of seen it the complete opposite, come over and
[01:03:29.080 -> 01:03:33.440] said are you going to be like this all night, like why are you so miserable and
[01:03:33.440 -> 01:03:40.080] like Gaffer we've just... and he was like yeah bad moment but that's when you stay
[01:03:40.080 -> 01:03:50.720] together, that's when you need everyone together and also by the way this is just the beginning, this is just the start so by the end
[01:03:50.720 -> 01:03:54.240] he basically went I want you all on the dance floor by the end of the night and
[01:03:54.240 -> 01:03:58.120] we're singing We Are Liverpool, he's singing We Are Liverpool and everybody's
[01:03:58.120 -> 01:04:03.280] saying We Are Liverpool. What did that do for you? That completely, my mind was like
[01:04:03.280 -> 01:04:06.000] this is like just totally different to anything
[01:04:06.560 -> 01:04:12.880] that I've ever experienced before and to think like that so close to losing a big game
[01:04:13.840 -> 01:04:19.920] give me definitely so much confidence to think he's so confident that this is just the beginning
[01:04:19.920 -> 01:04:29.000] and he's singing like he's this we've done he's obviously at it, we've done so well to be able to get to the final from when he started maybe 7-8 months ago.
[01:04:29.000 -> 01:04:40.000] He could see the signs of improvement and he knew it would continue in that way if we carried on doing what we'd been doing.
[01:04:40.000 -> 01:04:48.400] He knew he needed everybody together to be able to do that. So actually in the end, I think as players, you took a lot of confidence from actually,
[01:04:49.320 -> 01:04:54.800] well, this is just the beginning, you know, and I think that was a big moment looking back.
[01:04:55.240 -> 01:04:56.040] It's a big moment.
[01:04:56.040 -> 01:04:58.200] When was it when he texted you to say we'll go again?
[01:04:58.280 -> 01:04:59.120] What was that after?
[01:04:59.520 -> 01:05:01.200] That was, it wasn't text.
[01:05:01.200 -> 01:05:07.680] It was, I think what you're referring to was after we lost to Madrid in Kiev, Champions League final.
[01:05:07.680 -> 01:05:11.600] So that was the year before we won the Champions League final.
[01:05:11.600 -> 01:05:18.400] And again, in difficult moments, that's when he's really, really good.
[01:05:18.400 -> 01:05:24.400] Yes, he's very emotional and on the sideline he's very animated and stuff.
[01:05:24.400 -> 01:05:26.320] But actually, in the dressing room he's very animated and stuff. But actually in the dressing
[01:05:26.320 -> 01:05:31.120] room he's not like that when the game's on. When he's speaking at half time he's very
[01:05:31.120 -> 01:05:36.440] clear in what he's saying. He's not shouting and he's very clear and you can understand
[01:05:36.440 -> 01:05:48.000] exactly what he wants. And it's the same after games or after big moments, big defeats, that the perspective that he has and he knows
[01:05:48.000 -> 01:05:54.000] that ultimately it's just a blip or bump in the road. You know, and you can use it to
[01:05:54.000 -> 01:05:58.500] be stronger. And every time we've had one of them, he's always dealt with it in the
[01:05:58.500 -> 01:06:00.000] best way and we've always responded in the best way.
[01:06:00.000 -> 01:06:01.500] What did he do after Kiev for you?
[01:06:01.500 -> 01:06:05.380] Kiev was the one where it was like, don't worry, we'll go again. Yeah.
[01:06:05.380 -> 01:06:10.680] You know, again, I don't think many people at the start of that season would have said
[01:06:10.680 -> 01:06:13.880] that team would have got to a Champions League final.
[01:06:13.880 -> 01:06:16.680] And I think he could see the bigger picture of that.
[01:06:16.680 -> 01:06:19.680] But when you're a player, you know, it's the end of the world.
[01:06:19.680 -> 01:06:21.680] You know, it's a dream of playing in a Champions League final.
[01:06:21.680 -> 01:06:24.680] You never quite know if you're ever going to get a play in another one,
[01:06:24.680 -> 01:06:27.520] you know how difficult it is to get there, so it's
[01:06:27.520 -> 01:06:33.080] the end of the world. But so close after the defeat to say, don't worry, we'll go again.
[01:06:33.080 -> 01:06:39.120] And again, people can just see that, but when he says it, there's a genuine belief and you
[01:06:39.120 -> 01:06:40.120] feel that from him.
[01:06:40.120 -> 01:06:44.960] Look what he said after the defeat in Paris, live on the telly five minutes after when
[01:06:44.960 -> 01:06:45.680] he's being interviewed, he said, book your hotels Paris, live on the telly five minutes after when he's being interviewed
[01:06:45.680 -> 01:06:47.680] He said book your hotels in Istanbul
[01:06:48.080 -> 01:06:49.800] And obviously you're getting the same messages
[01:06:49.800 -> 01:06:55.000] And I tell you what I think is interesting about this right is if if when you lose a final and a manager comes around
[01:06:55.000 -> 01:06:59.360] He goes you didn't perform you didn't deliver you let us down and you go
[01:06:59.360 -> 01:07:02.520] But even if you then go back right and get into another final a year later
[01:07:03.000 -> 01:07:07.880] In that final you're looking at the manager thinking you threw me and the rest of the lads under the bus and blamed
[01:07:07.880 -> 01:07:12.320] us a year ago. So when we win we'll win for us, we won't win for you. What you've just
[01:07:12.320 -> 01:07:17.600] described is a manager creating a situation where 12 months or 24 months later you are
[01:07:17.600 -> 01:07:22.680] desperate to win for you of course but you're looking at that manager thinking you stood
[01:07:22.680 -> 01:07:25.000] by me and protected these players
[01:07:25.000 -> 01:07:28.000] when we lost, so now when we win, this is
[01:07:28.000 -> 01:07:29.000] this is for you as well.
[01:07:29.000 -> 01:07:30.000] Definitely.
[01:07:30.000 -> 01:07:33.000] Well, there's, I mean, there's interesting research on this from
[01:07:33.000 -> 01:07:36.000] there's a guy called Daniel Kahneman, he's like a Nobel
[01:07:36.000 -> 01:07:41.000] Prize winning psychologist and he looks at how your memory works and
[01:07:41.000 -> 01:07:44.000] this is why it's intriguing talking to you about Jürgen because
[01:07:44.000 -> 01:07:45.520] there's three things that
[01:07:45.520 -> 01:07:47.240] he says your memory will throw up.
[01:07:47.240 -> 01:07:51.280] So when we ask you about Yogam Clark, you'll think about the first meeting you had with
[01:07:51.280 -> 01:07:55.040] him, which you said, the charisma, that you knew you were onto something.
[01:07:55.040 -> 01:07:58.760] The last occasion you've met with him, whenever that would have been.
[01:07:58.760 -> 01:08:05.160] But the time that stands out is how he dealt with the times when emotions were at their highest, whether
[01:08:05.160 -> 01:08:10.240] that's the crushing disappointment of a defeat or the elation of a victory, how
[01:08:10.240 -> 01:08:15.680] he behaves in those moments actually defines him in your memory and
[01:08:15.680 -> 01:08:20.480] what you're describing is he was exactly the same after those victories winning
[01:08:20.480 -> 01:08:23.200] the Champions League as he was after the defeat in Sevilla.
[01:08:23.200 -> 01:08:27.360] I probably don't remember the victories and how he was because everybody's just celebrating,
[01:08:27.360 -> 01:08:33.760] everybody, everything's great, you know, but you're right, in the tough moments you do remember
[01:08:33.760 -> 01:08:38.320] them clearly and it stood out to me because it was completely different to anything I'd ever
[01:08:39.120 -> 01:08:43.600] experienced in my life before and the way that he thought about things was totally different.
[01:08:45.160 -> 01:08:51.700] in my life before and the way that he thought about things was totally different. So that helped me massively in terms of my thoughts and my mentality because after a defeat on
[01:08:51.700 -> 01:08:56.000] a weekend, never mind a Champions League final, I'd stay in the house for two or three days.
[01:08:56.000 -> 01:09:02.520] I didn't want to go. So to change that for me was huge really.
[01:09:02.520 -> 01:09:05.480] Brilliant. We're going to move on to our quickfire questions now
[01:09:05.480 -> 01:09:06.320] and wrap this up.
[01:09:06.320 -> 01:09:09.040] One last question though, before we move on to these.
[01:09:09.040 -> 01:09:11.560] It's an interesting dynamic manager and captain.
[01:09:11.560 -> 01:09:12.400] Yeah.
[01:09:12.400 -> 01:09:14.200] So when you have a manager as charismatic
[01:09:14.200 -> 01:09:17.200] and as brilliant at conversing
[01:09:17.200 -> 01:09:19.480] and getting to people's hearts
[01:09:19.480 -> 01:09:21.240] as well as their heads as Jürgen is,
[01:09:21.240 -> 01:09:24.080] what's your role in this manager-captain relationship?
[01:09:24.080 -> 01:09:29.480] What are you like at halftime? How are you the day before a game or on the coach heading to a match?
[01:09:29.480 -> 01:09:35.760] I don't like to think about it too much because I'm just me ultimately. What I would see is
[01:09:35.760 -> 01:09:39.600] that Jürgen helped us a lot in terms of dealing with the captaincy. I think there was a lot
[01:09:39.600 -> 01:09:45.140] of pressure when I took over as captain, taking over from Stevie, who is arguably Liverpool's greatest
[01:09:45.140 -> 01:09:49.660] ever player and captain. So, tough boots to fill.
[01:09:49.660 -> 01:09:52.140] What did he say to make that easier for you?
[01:09:52.140 -> 01:09:57.100] I knew from the outside that the perception would be different but again coming back to
[01:09:57.100 -> 01:10:04.340] the innocent self-belief, I knew that I was the right person to lead the team and I felt
[01:10:04.340 -> 01:10:05.760] as though I could lead the team, which is why I took the role on to lead the team and I felt as though I could lead
[01:10:05.760 -> 01:10:09.280] the team which is why I took the role on. If I didn't then I would have said
[01:10:09.280 -> 01:10:13.960] actually not the right time, choose somebody else. But I felt as though I was
[01:10:13.960 -> 01:10:19.960] the right person and I could do it in the way that that's my way and I've been
[01:10:19.960 -> 01:10:23.280] given captaincy when I was younger so I always felt that there was leadership
[01:10:23.280 -> 01:10:28.040] qualities within us anyway which is why I'd been asked in the first place. So there was definitely
[01:10:28.040 -> 01:10:33.820] a self-belief inside again but I knew from the outside that it wouldn't be the same.
[01:10:33.820 -> 01:10:37.980] You know you've got Steven Gerrard, like I said, one of the greatest players of all
[01:10:37.980 -> 01:10:42.680] time then handing the captaincy down to Jordan Henderson.
[01:10:42.680 -> 01:10:52.200] Down or across? Well, down at the time I would say from a lot of people's view. But yeah, I knew that
[01:10:52.200 -> 01:10:57.080] that was going to come and I knew I needed to deal with that as best I could. And that
[01:10:57.080 -> 01:11:02.120] was difficult, you know, that was hard, you know, a lot of criticism, it's easy to jump
[01:11:02.120 -> 01:11:05.360] on the bandwagon at that moment in time. And again,
[01:11:05.360 -> 01:11:10.520] things like that made us stronger. But when Jürgen come in, I can remember him saying
[01:11:10.520 -> 01:11:18.040] that I take too much on my shoulders, too much responsibility as captain. I need to
[01:11:18.040 -> 01:11:26.600] delegate things more, relieve us a little bit more and actually just focus on what's best for you to help the team.
[01:11:26.600 -> 01:11:32.440] So he helped us a lot, he still does, he's helped us a lot not only on the pitch but
[01:11:32.440 -> 01:11:39.000] off the pitch and how I am as a person and how I am as a leader really. He's really,
[01:11:39.000 -> 01:11:44.480] really helped us in that sense and that's helped us grow into the person I am today
[01:11:44.480 -> 01:11:46.320] and he'll still do it
[01:11:46.320 -> 01:11:50.360] now if I do something wrong and he doesn't quite like it I'll be in the office and he'll
[01:11:50.360 -> 01:11:57.160] say nah you can't do that and I've learnt things over time that actually I didn't realise
[01:11:57.160 -> 01:11:58.160] that that could be me.
[01:11:58.160 -> 01:12:00.220] Give us an example.
[01:12:00.220 -> 01:12:08.640] One of the best examples probably is when I'm not playing. I can take it, not personally, but as a player, you always want to play.
[01:12:09.480 -> 01:12:12.400] So when you're not playing, that can be really, really difficult.
[01:12:12.920 -> 01:12:17.720] And there's been moments, again, I've improved this a lot over the, I'm still
[01:12:18.000 -> 01:12:22.080] still improving, but I've improved that a lot since, since the gaffer first came in.
[01:12:22.480 -> 01:12:27.000] Um, where you're not playing, it's how you react. And again
[01:12:27.000 -> 01:12:32.760] for me, if I wasn't playing I'd be taking that as somebody's doubting us again. And
[01:12:32.760 -> 01:12:38.280] I would go sort of in my shell and think, okay, I'm not in the starting XI, I'm not
[01:12:38.280 -> 01:12:49.040] playing, okay, I need to prove them wrong. And that can come across differently, especially when you're captain of a team.
[01:12:49.040 -> 01:12:53.600] You've got to react differently in those situations because if other players are looking at you
[01:12:53.600 -> 01:13:00.640] and seeing that you're not quite reacting in the right way for the team or in certain
[01:13:00.640 -> 01:13:10.240] situations then they're going to maybe follow that when it happens to them. And it was never a bad situation but it was something that he felt as though I could improve
[01:13:10.240 -> 01:13:17.200] on. If I wasn't playing then deal with it as best you can. And I think as players in general
[01:13:17.760 -> 01:13:22.400] it's so difficult when you're not playing. Especially, yes, when you're injured but when you're
[01:13:22.400 -> 01:13:25.600] fit it can be even more difficult because you're ready, you're fit,
[01:13:25.600 -> 01:13:29.200] and you're not playing as much as you like or you're not starting.
[01:13:29.200 -> 01:13:38.600] And it's about trying to deal with that and respect your teammates, which luckily I've had an amazing teammate over the past that do that.
[01:13:38.600 -> 01:13:43.800] But you still have this anger inside you where you want to prove them wrong to say, well, I'm not starting this one,
[01:13:43.800 -> 01:13:47.440] but I need to make sure that he can't leave us out again and I think a lot of
[01:13:47.440 -> 01:13:51.120] the lads and a lot of players use that anyway when they're not playing.
[01:13:51.120 -> 01:13:55.760] So a nice bit of feedback for you was when we had Gareth Southgate on the podcast and
[01:13:55.760 -> 01:14:00.460] Gareth spoke really glowingly about you as one of his cultural architects, he
[01:14:00.460 -> 01:14:05.560] spoke about you and Harry Kane as setting standards in the group and welcoming people
[01:14:05.560 -> 01:14:11.400] and creating a culture where people felt they could come and be themselves and thrive.
[01:14:11.400 -> 01:14:16.880] So what one piece of advice would you give to somebody listening for this about how you
[01:14:16.880 -> 01:14:22.640] can set the tone, whether you're a leader or not, whether you're in the team or not,
[01:14:22.640 -> 01:14:27.400] what you can do to create a culture where people can thrive in their own worlds?
[01:14:27.400 -> 01:14:33.920] I would say leading by example would be giving absolutely everything, every
[01:14:33.920 -> 01:14:38.280] single day, not just when things are going well or you might be in a good
[01:14:38.280 -> 01:14:48.080] moment or doing it for a few months and it's got to be every single day. I've lived, breathed football all my
[01:14:48.080 -> 01:14:56.480] life, that's all. I've loved for many years. So I take it very seriously and I want to
[01:14:56.480 -> 01:15:03.760] be the best that I can be. So by listening to people like my managers, my coaches, my
[01:15:03.760 -> 01:15:06.040] teammates, doing extra work on
[01:15:06.040 -> 01:15:10.120] the training ground, in the gym, to ultimately be the best person I can be,
[01:15:10.280 -> 01:15:13.680] which then ultimately helps the team become successful.
[01:15:14.360 -> 01:15:21.080] And also one of the biggest things when I took the captaincy on was being somebody
[01:15:21.080 -> 01:15:27.000] who my teammates could rely on and come to with absolutely anything.
[01:15:27.000 -> 01:15:31.000] I wanted to be there for them for absolutely anything,
[01:15:31.000 -> 01:15:36.000] whether it was off the pitch, on the pitch, in the felt, a trust,
[01:15:36.000 -> 01:15:42.000] and like I say, somebody that I could look to and rely on and go to with certain things.
[01:15:42.000 -> 01:15:46.480] That was a big thing for me when I took the captaincy on and it
[01:15:46.480 -> 01:15:52.760] still is now. I still try to help as many players as possible, teammates, Liverpool,
[01:15:52.760 -> 01:15:58.960] England. I try to pass on my own experiences that's happened in my career so far. But at
[01:15:58.960 -> 01:16:03.320] the same time I'm still learning as well. You never stop learning I don't think. You
[01:16:03.320 -> 01:16:10.600] can always learn all the time. I learn from other players, I learn from my managers. I'm basically dedicated
[01:16:10.600 -> 01:16:15.320] when I took the captaincy on to the team and they're the most important thing. The most
[01:16:15.320 -> 01:16:23.080] important thing to me is the players and my team-mates. I've dedicated all of that off
[01:16:23.080 -> 01:16:26.000] the pitch stuff and on the pitch to try and help them.
[01:16:26.000 -> 01:16:28.500] Right, quickfire questions, are you ready for these?
[01:16:28.500 -> 01:16:33.000] Not really, I'm not good at these, never been quickfire for me but let's try.
[01:16:33.000 -> 01:16:38.000] What are the three non-negotiables that you and the people around you need to buy into?
[01:16:38.000 -> 01:16:50.400] Hard work, togetherness, is that one? Unity? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And respect. What's your biggest weakness
[01:16:50.400 -> 01:16:54.360] and what's your greatest strength? I think one of my biggest strengths can actually be
[01:16:54.360 -> 01:17:00.960] one of my biggest weaknesses because one of my biggest strengths I would say is helping
[01:17:00.960 -> 01:17:06.800] other people or trying to help other people and that can be my biggest
[01:17:06.800 -> 01:17:13.000] weakness because I take too much on for other people which can have a negative
[01:17:13.000 -> 01:17:17.340] effect at home, you know family life and I know that because my wife tells us all
[01:17:17.340 -> 01:17:23.640] the time that I'm sometimes never there, I'm there in person but mentally I'm not.
[01:17:23.640 -> 01:17:25.920] I'm always thinking about football or something
[01:17:25.920 -> 01:17:32.920] that's happened or stuff like that. So I'm always thinking about how I can help at work
[01:17:32.920 -> 01:17:41.320] or football which can take a lot away from my family which is a big weakness for me in
[01:17:41.320 -> 01:17:43.720] trying to balance that really I would say.
[01:17:43.720 -> 01:17:48.240] What advice would you give to a teenage Jordan just getting going in his career?
[01:17:48.240 -> 01:17:55.680] Not to worry about stuff as much or not to care about stuff that's not important as much.
[01:17:55.680 -> 01:18:00.760] There's a lot of stuff again looking back when I was doing the book that there was stuff
[01:18:00.760 -> 01:18:05.400] where I'm thinking like why am I even worried about these things?
[01:18:11.200 -> 01:18:11.840] But little things I do think about and I do so I suppose again, that's part of who I am
[01:18:13.840 -> 01:18:14.200] But it can have a negative effect
[01:18:18.640 -> 01:18:19.400] so trying that which I'm trying to do now after writing the book is try to
[01:18:21.400 -> 01:18:21.440] not worry and
[01:18:24.480 -> 01:18:29.120] Get wrapped up in certain situations when when you don't need to If you could go back to one moment of your life what would it be and why?
[01:18:29.120 -> 01:18:34.720] Champions League final. Well I've said that too quick because I'm thinking about
[01:18:34.720 -> 01:18:41.000] football. Obviously when me kids were born was the most special day of me life.
[01:18:41.000 -> 01:18:47.120] I've got three so we'll just put that to the side because I
[01:18:47.120 -> 01:18:53.620] think everybody who's had children will understand what that feeling is like. But for me personally
[01:18:53.620 -> 01:19:00.200] in my career would be Champions League final. Everything to get to that point, dreams, hard
[01:19:00.200 -> 01:19:07.020] work, dedication, sacrifice, failure, everything that went along with that
[01:19:07.020 -> 01:19:10.080] to get to that moment made it even better really.
[01:19:10.080 -> 01:19:12.380] So definitely I'd go back there.
[01:19:12.380 -> 01:19:13.220] It's great.
[01:19:13.220 -> 01:19:14.060] And the final question,
[01:19:14.060 -> 01:19:16.900] your one last message really for people listening to this.
[01:19:16.900 -> 01:19:19.520] I often like to think of this as maybe something
[01:19:19.520 -> 01:19:21.020] that you tell your kids, right?
[01:19:21.020 -> 01:19:22.200] For the life that they're gonna live.
[01:19:22.200 -> 01:19:23.820] What is your kind of one golden rule
[01:19:23.820 -> 01:19:26.480] for people listening to this, living a high-performance life
[01:19:26.480 -> 01:19:30.280] your your kind of final message really for what you'd like people to think and
[01:19:30.280 -> 01:19:35.840] and do? I think we've spoke about a lot about mental health haven't we? I think that's so
[01:19:35.840 -> 01:19:41.560] big in society now and I always speak about mental health a lot but I think
[01:19:41.560 -> 01:19:49.040] everybody suffers and goes through bad moments in their life and it's how you deal with them moments and I think
[01:19:49.040 -> 01:19:54.440] looking back I was very lucky to have the people I had around us, the people
[01:19:54.440 -> 01:20:00.320] that came along to help us deal with their moments and other people aren't so
[01:20:00.320 -> 01:20:11.040] lucky to have them people around. So I would say for them people to reach out to anyone if they
[01:20:11.040 -> 01:20:16.320] are struggling, if they are going through a bad moment not to feel like you're burdening other
[01:20:16.320 -> 01:20:22.320] people and if you do feel like that I would say speak to people that is outside the circle which
[01:20:22.320 -> 01:20:28.680] really helped me massively. Sometimes I'll go for breakfast or to the coffee shop and I go to the same
[01:20:28.680 -> 01:20:34.920] place all the time and there's a guy who is 90 called Walter and he sits on the
[01:20:34.920 -> 01:20:41.160] table next to me like a lot of time and we'll have some just conversation about
[01:20:41.160 -> 01:20:46.720] anything and everything and after I've had the chat I just feel so much better
[01:20:46.720 -> 01:20:52.880] I don't know why I just I feel really good that I can just speak to somebody so if you feel as though you haven't
[01:20:52.880 -> 01:20:53.720] got
[01:20:53.720 -> 01:20:58.640] Somebody that comes to your head that you can speak to even if you just go to a coffee shop or go somebody
[01:20:58.840 -> 01:21:03.000] Somewhere and speak to a complete stranger about anything
[01:21:03.560 -> 01:21:08.840] It can help. What a great way to end. You know what, that's been a fascinating conversation,
[01:21:08.840 -> 01:21:13.040] thank you for giving us so much of your precious time. You know there's two things that stand
[01:21:13.040 -> 01:21:17.680] out for me, right, I think the first thing is you've come to the realisation that life
[01:21:17.680 -> 01:21:22.960] is a team sport. I think of like a 17 year old Jordan Henderson who thinks I can conquer
[01:21:22.960 -> 01:21:27.320] the world on my own, I'll win the trophies, I'll be successful and even when you were struggling at
[01:21:27.320 -> 01:21:31.040] Liverpool didn't speak to your wife because it was up to you to deal with
[01:21:31.040 -> 01:21:34.640] your problems and I think you've realized like many elite people have
[01:21:34.640 -> 01:21:39.220] that actually you have to talk, you have to share, you can't solve all your
[01:21:39.220 -> 01:21:43.760] problems on your own. The other thing that has really stood out to me from
[01:21:43.760 -> 01:21:45.160] this conversation you you know, as
[01:21:45.160 -> 01:21:49.960] well as realising you need other people around you, is that like nothing comes for free.
[01:21:49.960 -> 01:21:54.160] And I think you, as you come towards, not at the end obviously, but as you come towards
[01:21:54.160 -> 01:21:58.160] the end of your career, you're going to have to learn to be really kind to yourself, because
[01:21:58.160 -> 01:22:02.320] you're no longer going to have football to judge yourself against.
[01:22:02.320 -> 01:22:03.320] Did I win three points?
[01:22:03.320 -> 01:22:04.920] Did I play really well?
[01:22:04.920 -> 01:22:05.160] Have I helped
[01:22:05.160 -> 01:22:09.880] that young player? You know, you're going to not be able to judge yourself with those
[01:22:09.880 -> 01:22:14.080] metrics. So the only way to do that is to realise that actually you may well struggle
[01:22:14.080 -> 01:22:18.960] again. But that's what happens, you've had the amazing highs, but then other things can
[01:22:18.960 -> 01:22:22.240] come your way as well. Nothing comes for free and the intensity that you've spoken about
[01:22:22.240 -> 01:22:28.960] a lot in this conversation, by the way, that is the reason why you are a Premier League, Champions League, Liverpool
[01:22:28.960 -> 01:22:33.760] captain because of the intensity. It might not be nice sometimes but without that you
[01:22:33.760 -> 01:22:38.280] don't get everything else. So I wish you the very best in the future, man.
[01:22:38.280 -> 01:22:40.160] No, thank you very much. Thanks for the time.
[01:22:44.520 -> 01:22:50.720] Damien, what an interesting individual and what an enlightening conversation. I loved it.
[01:22:50.720 -> 01:22:56.560] I think like you say that we only start to change perceptions one conversation at a time and I think
[01:22:56.560 -> 01:23:02.120] Jordan was open, he was vulnerable, he was incredibly honest. I think it was a real privilege
[01:23:02.120 -> 01:23:07.020] to listen. I love what you say about that changing of perceptions because I think you look at
[01:23:07.020 -> 01:23:11.120] professional footballers and think well they're talented, they get well paid, they have it
[01:23:11.120 -> 01:23:16.640] easy. You know, let's chart his history. I mean, you know, he has an only, your parents
[01:23:16.640 -> 01:23:21.600] divorcing when you're an only child breaks up the only stability you have in your world,
[01:23:21.600 -> 01:23:25.760] right? Then you can't talk about your issues because you look at your parents
[01:23:25.760 -> 01:23:26.800] dealing with their own problems,
[01:23:26.800 -> 01:23:28.780] so then you internalize everything.
[01:23:28.780 -> 01:23:32.240] Then the grandparent you do share things with passes away.
[01:23:32.240 -> 01:23:33.880] Then you get the move to the biggest,
[01:23:33.880 -> 01:23:35.480] one of the biggest clubs in the country,
[01:23:35.480 -> 01:23:37.520] and the scrutiny and the pressure
[01:23:37.520 -> 01:23:40.160] and the manager saying he might sell you,
[01:23:40.160 -> 01:23:43.400] lead you down a path of real psychological turmoil,
[01:23:43.400 -> 01:23:49.040] so you go and seek help. And then you play in major finals and competitions and you don't win them and then you get a
[01:23:49.040 -> 01:23:52.620] captaincy and people question whether you're the person that deserves that.
[01:23:52.620 -> 01:23:59.040] Look at all of those moments in his career where he has had to lean on his resilience.
[01:23:59.040 -> 01:24:04.220] That's the truth about Jordan Henderson, someone who has not just been successful, but he's
[01:24:04.220 -> 01:24:05.100] been successful in
[01:24:05.100 -> 01:24:08.700] spite of constant setbacks and knockbacks. And if people can learn one
[01:24:08.700 -> 01:24:12.100] thing from his story, it's that if you can get through those things, great
[01:24:12.100 -> 01:24:16.540] things await you. Yeah, definitely. Although what I did love about Jonan's
[01:24:16.540 -> 01:24:20.300] message there was the humility to say, you know, the last comment of I'm still
[01:24:20.300 -> 01:24:25.240] learning, I'm still improving, and I think he would say that he did that,
[01:24:25.240 -> 01:24:27.960] which is a great testament to his resolve.
[01:24:27.960 -> 01:24:30.000] But he could have made it easier for himself
[01:24:30.000 -> 01:24:31.440] by being prepared to open up
[01:24:31.440 -> 01:24:33.920] to what he perceived as selflessness,
[01:24:33.920 -> 01:24:36.160] was actually selfish in many ways
[01:24:36.160 -> 01:24:38.360] of not wanting to burden people,
[01:24:38.360 -> 01:24:41.240] where the people that loved him, like he recognized,
[01:24:41.240 -> 01:24:44.080] they wanted him to come and talk to them and share with them.
[01:24:44.080 -> 01:24:47.680] And I think that's the powerful message that we can all be strong,
[01:24:47.680 -> 01:24:51.600] often stronger than we think we can, but actually we don't need to do it alone.
[01:24:51.600 -> 01:24:54.680] It's like you said, life is a team sport.
[01:24:55.400 -> 01:24:56.240] It's a really good point.
[01:24:56.240 -> 01:24:59.840] And I just hope that not too much of his self-worth, right,
[01:24:59.840 -> 01:25:02.280] is wrapped up in being the Liverpool captain and being a footballer,
[01:25:02.280 -> 01:25:06.920] because, you know, I go to football matches with former players and you can see that it's
[01:25:06.920 -> 01:25:10.200] a total affront to their ego when they have to show their pass like you go into
[01:25:10.200 -> 01:25:16.440] Old Trafford and Anfield and Stamford Bridge and the Emirates with legends of
[01:25:16.440 -> 01:25:19.600] those clubs and the security saying where's your pass and they can't go in
[01:25:19.600 -> 01:25:22.080] the tunnel because they're not allowed and they can't go in the dressing room
[01:25:22.080 -> 01:25:25.940] and they can't walk on the pitch and you know, they are constantly having to
[01:25:27.000 -> 01:25:32.560] Reset what what and who they thought they were and I hope all the experiences that he's been through
[01:25:33.280 -> 01:25:38.920] Equips him for life outside football because actually that's possibly more important. Yeah, I would it's funny
[01:25:38.920 -> 01:25:40.920] You say that because I was thinking about
[01:25:40.960 -> 01:25:44.620] Reading his excellent book where football seems to have made life better
[01:25:44.600 -> 01:25:49.360] about reading his excellent book where football seems to have made life better. So him and his dad bonded over playing football when he was at the Academy at
[01:25:49.360 -> 01:25:54.400] Sunderland, you know, when his dad had that horrific diagnosis, football made things
[01:25:54.400 -> 01:26:00.080] better in terms of his dad's recovery. But like you say, that's not always going
[01:26:00.080 -> 01:26:04.240] to be there and I think for Jordan to recognise that you don't need football,
[01:26:04.240 -> 01:26:11.840] football's the crutch. You can make things better by talking to people, being decent, being humble, working
[01:26:11.840 -> 01:26:16.760] hard at whatever we do. They're the characteristics, football just is the vehicle for it. It's
[01:26:16.760 -> 01:26:18.560] not the means to an end.
[01:26:18.560 -> 01:26:20.200] Thanks for your time, bro.
[01:26:20.200 -> 01:26:22.200] Loved it, mate. Thank you.
[01:26:22.200 -> 01:26:28.400] Man, I love that conversation. Can I just remind you that if you head to thehighperformancepodcast.com,
[01:26:28.400 -> 01:26:31.920] you can go even deeper with us. You can join our high performance circle. It's totally
[01:26:31.920 -> 01:26:35.840] free if you want to do that. You can also watch this conversation with Jordan and all
[01:26:35.840 -> 01:26:40.000] our other guests on our YouTube channel. You can order our books, you can get tickets for
[01:26:40.000 -> 01:26:47.240] our live tours. Everything is there. Thehighperformance Performance Podcast.com. As always, this podcast
[01:26:47.240 -> 01:26:51.800] doesn't exist without you sharing and spreading and talking about the conversations here.
[01:26:51.800 -> 01:26:56.160] So please continue to do that. Just send this to one person that you think will benefit
[01:26:56.160 -> 01:27:00.880] from the things that Jordan talks about today. Thanks as well to Finn, to Hannah, to Will,
[01:27:00.880 -> 01:27:09.880] to Eve, to Gemma, to Callum, to the whole team, but most of all, thanks to you. Remember, there is no secret. It is all there for you. So chase world-class basics.
[01:27:09.880 -> 01:27:15.600] Don't get high on your own supply. Remain humble, curious, empathetic, and we'll see
[01:27:15.600 -> 01:27:30.520] you soon. Bye!