Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 21 Nov 2022 01:00:34 GMT
Duration:
1:03:18
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
This week Jake and Damian are hosting a World Cup Special Roundtable with football legends, Rio Ferdinand, Peter Crouch and Joe Cole discussing what it's really like pulling on an England shirt. In this episode they discuss the differences between their generation and the current England team and how the lack of structure and leadership in their tactics and team affected their results.
Rio, Peter and Joe reflect on the beginning of their careers, discussing the struggle of coming to terms with such an amazing achievement and the pressure that comes along with it. The media portrayed them as the ‘Golden Generation’, they explore what went so wrong and why the label was, ultimately, very damaging.
The boys express how they feel about the upcoming World Cup and their fundamental trust in Gareth Southgate.
- - - -
NEW TOUR ALERT! We are travelling to 9 cities in 2023 for the High Performance Live Tour! Tickets are available now at: https://www.thehighperformancepodcast.com/live2023
OUT NOW! The High Performance Daily Journal - 365 ways to become your best! smarturl.it/HPJournal
Subscribe to our YouTube to watch episodes : https://bit.ly/3UKkrRD
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/highperformance/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/highperformancepodcast
Join our new Telegram: https://t.me/highperformance_circle
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
**Summary of the High Performance Podcast Episode: "The Golden Generation: Rio Ferdinand, Peter Crouch, and Joe Cole Reflect on Their England Careers"**
**Key Points:**
- Rio Ferdinand, Peter Crouch, and Joe Cole, three English football legends, discuss their experiences playing for the England national team.
- They reflect on the challenges they faced, including the lack of structure and leadership in the team's tactics, which affected their results.
- The players discuss the pressure they felt as part of the "Golden Generation," a label given to their group of talented players who were expected to bring a major trophy back to England.
- They express their excitement about the upcoming World Cup and their trust in manager Gareth Southgate.
- The players emphasize the importance of having a strong team culture and a clear tactical approach to succeed at the international level.
- They also discuss the need for technical development and the importance of players being comfortable handling the ball under pressure.
- The players acknowledge that the Premier League's competitiveness during their era may have hindered the England team's success.
- They also mention the negative impact of the media's portrayal of the team and the lack of a positive relationship between the players and the media.
- They believe that the current England team has a better chance of success due to improved tactics, a stronger team culture, and a more supportive media environment.
**Overall Message:**
The episode provides insights into the challenges and experiences of the "Golden Generation" of English footballers, highlighting the importance of tactical structure, team culture, and a positive relationship with the media for international football success.
# Podcast Episode Summary: England's Football Journey - The High Performance Podcast
**Key Points:**
- England's footballing culture has shifted, and the dynamics of the game have changed.
- The "Golden Generation" label, intended to celebrate exceptional talent, ultimately proved damaging, creating undue pressure and unrealistic expectations.
- Former England players discuss the lack of leadership and structure in the team's tactics, resulting in inconsistent performances and missed opportunities.
- The current England team, under Gareth Southgate, is praised for its progress, reaching the semi-finals and finals of major tournaments, despite facing criticism for cautious tactics.
- The development of England's youth system has been remarkable, attracting scouts from top European clubs and producing naturally gifted footballers.
- Fans, media, and ex-players are urged to fully support the team as they head to the World Cup, recognizing their achievements and potential.
- The focus should be on fostering a positive and unified atmosphere, acknowledging that difficult moments are inevitable and requiring resilience and unwavering support.
**Additional Insights:**
- The podcast highlights the contrasting managerial styles of Sven-Göran Eriksson and Fabio Capello, with Eriksson's relaxed approach leading to accusations of player power and Capello's strict discipline creating a rigid environment.
- The lack of tactical flexibility and adaptability in the England team is seen as a hindrance, preventing them from effectively countering different opponents' strategies.
- The importance of mental resilience and the ability to handle pressure is emphasized, as players need to maintain focus and composure even during challenging moments.
- The podcast acknowledges that England's chances of winning the World Cup are realistic, given the quality of their players and the progress made under Gareth Southgate.
- The unity and unwavering support of the entire nation are seen as crucial factors in boosting the team's morale and driving them towards success.
# Episode Overview: The High Performance Podcast - World Cup Special Roundtable
**Introduction**
* The podcast begins with a discussion about the upcoming World Cup in Qatar.
* The hosts, Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes, are joined by football legends Rio Ferdinand, Peter Crouch, and Joe Cole.
* The group reflects on their experiences playing for England and the challenges they faced.
**Main Discussion**
* The conversation centers around the lack of structure and leadership in the England team during their time, which they believe affected their results.
* The players discuss the pressure and scrutiny they faced as members of the "Golden Generation" of English football.
* They also share their thoughts on the current England team and their chances of success in the World Cup.
**Key Insights**
* The importance of structure, leadership, and a strong team culture for success in football.
* The challenges and pressures faced by elite athletes, particularly those representing their country.
* The role of the media in shaping public perception of athletes and teams.
* The importance of mental resilience and the ability to overcome adversity in high-performance sport.
**Conclusion**
* The episode ends with the hosts and guests expressing their optimism for the England team in the upcoming World Cup.
* They emphasize the need for the team to remain humble, focused, and united in order to achieve success.
**Additional Information**
* The High Performance Podcast is a weekly show that features interviews with elite athletes, coaches, and experts in various fields.
* The podcast is hosted by Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes, both of whom have extensive experience in sports broadcasting.
* The World Cup Special Roundtable episode was released on November 15, 2022.
[00:00.000 -> 00:07.700] Norwich, London, Nottingham, Oxford, Northampton, Glasgow, Guildford, Leeds, Salford, Cardiff.
[00:07.700 -> 00:12.980] We're coming your way in 2023. And if you would like to join us and be there and watch
[00:12.980 -> 00:19.420] High Performance Live, our brand new theatre show, then just go to thehighperformancepodcast.com
[00:19.420 -> 00:28.000] to get tickets. They're selling fast. So move now, thehighperformancepod Podcast.com and we'll see you live in 2023.
[00:29.000 -> 00:34.000] I'm Jay Comfrey. This is High Performance. Our conversation for you every week.
[00:34.000 -> 00:39.000] This podcast reminds you that it's within. Your ambition, your purpose, your story, it's all there.
[00:39.000 -> 00:49.620] We help unlock it by turning the lived experiences of the planet's highest performers into your life lessons. So right now, allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes to speak to three
[00:49.620 -> 00:57.160] of the biggest sports stars in English football so they can be your teacher. Today, this awaits
[00:57.160 -> 00:58.160] you.
[00:58.160 -> 01:06.640] I remember coming on at Old Trafford and getting booed by my own fans. It was probably a little bit of that between
[01:06.640 -> 01:11.080] Liverpool and Man United, that kind of rivalry, but that was obviously crept into the stands.
[01:11.080 -> 01:16.080] My mum and dad and sister are in the crowd and the whole England stand and the whole
[01:16.080 -> 01:22.480] stadium are booing me because of maybe a campaign against me for not being in England's squad.
[01:22.480 -> 01:26.080] Let's be honest, I'm a 24 year old kid, I'm getting
[01:26.080 -> 01:29.760] booed by my own fans and I'm thinking about my mum as I'm coming on to play for England.
[01:30.560 -> 01:37.200] I never enjoyed the games. I enjoy training, I like training and stuff, I love training every day
[01:37.760 -> 01:40.400] but I've never come out of a squad and gone, I absolutely love that camp.
[01:41.200 -> 01:45.200] Because there were things that weren't good about the camp and there was the game
[01:45.200 -> 01:51.440] where like I say we never had a game where I went you know what we are a problem for
[01:51.440 -> 01:54.960] everyone play anyone we could beat anyone didn't feel like that.
[01:54.960 -> 02:00.400] Premier League at that time was war it was two like four or five really really good teams
[02:00.400 -> 02:10.120] and at the core of that was were English And I feel that it was detrimental to the to the England team how competitive the Premier League was
[02:10.120 -> 02:14.480] When we get on that plane to leave Qatar with the trophy or without a trophy
[02:15.160 -> 02:20.720] You make sure that you have no regrets you you live it from now until then
[02:21.360 -> 02:25.640] So when you're 15 years down the line working in media, you know, we can all
[02:25.640 -> 02:27.760] pat you on the back as legends.
[02:27.760 -> 02:33.720] You know what, this is a cool and rare opportunity to get three of the Lions together. From that
[02:33.720 -> 02:38.420] era where we were so excited about English football, and so many of us believe that these
[02:38.420 -> 02:43.680] were the guys to do what hasn't been done since 1966 and to bring a major trophy back
[02:43.680 -> 02:45.680] home to England. we thought they were going
[02:45.680 -> 02:50.640] to bring football home. However, it didn't happen. And over the next hour or so, you're going to hear
[02:50.640 -> 02:55.440] the truth, the unfiltered truth about why it didn't happen, what they learned, what could
[02:55.440 -> 02:59.920] have been different and why they now believe things are different for this England team.
[02:59.920 -> 03:04.080] You know, the cool thing about this episode was getting the three guys together so they could
[03:04.080 -> 03:05.460] bounce off each other, so they could share their three guys together so they could bounce off each other, so
[03:05.460 -> 03:07.640] they could share their learnings, so they could learn
[03:07.640 -> 03:08.280] from each other.
[03:08.600 -> 03:11.200] It was a really unique and different episode actually of
[03:11.200 -> 03:13.400] the High Performance Podcast, but I think it's one with loads
[03:13.400 -> 03:13.920] of learning.
[03:14.280 -> 03:16.760] I think it's one that you're really going to enjoy in
[03:16.760 -> 03:18.280] partnership with BT Sport.
[03:18.800 -> 03:22.880] This is Joe Cole, Ria Ferdinand and Peter Crouch on the High
[03:22.880 -> 03:24.080] Performance Podcast.
[03:24.160 -> 03:28.320] Ria Ferdinand and Peter Crouch on the High Performance Podcast.
[03:33.680 -> 03:33.960] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life.
[03:37.000 -> 03:37.320] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share.
[03:45.240 -> 03:49.400] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone plans online and passes those savings to you. And for a limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new customer
[03:49.400 -> 03:54.640] offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month when you purchase a three
[03:54.640 -> 04:02.560] month plan. That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month and by the way
[04:02.560 -> 04:06.320] the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison
[04:06.320 -> 04:11.400] to providers that we've worked with before is incredible. Mint Mobile is here to rescue
[04:11.400 -> 04:17.000] you with premium wireless plans for $15 a month. So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless
[04:17.000 -> 04:22.140] plans, those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those unexpected overages, because all the plans
[04:22.140 -> 04:29.920] come with unlimited talk and text and high-speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any
[04:29.920 -> 04:34.600] Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[04:34.600 -> 04:38.880] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium
[04:38.880 -> 04:43.520] wireless service for just 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and
[04:43.520 -> 04:46.040] your new three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan
[04:46.040 -> 04:54.960] for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com.hpp. That's mintmobile.com.hpp. Cut your wireless
[04:54.960 -> 05:02.480] bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com.hpp. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply.
[05:02.480 -> 05:28.440] See Mint Mobile for details. represented England with great credit. When I talk about playing for England, first of all I'd love to hear from all three of you about the emotion that that brings up. What's
[05:28.440 -> 05:30.760] the first thing you think about when I talk about your England careers?
[05:30.760 -> 05:36.360] I don't know, for me personally I was, I just thought I am one of the best players in the
[05:36.360 -> 05:40.160] country now. Because you never really think about that when you're on your way up, when
[05:40.160 -> 05:43.960] you're on the journey to get to the pinnacle, which was playing for your country. I was
[05:43.960 -> 05:45.880] growing up at West Ham at the academy there.
[05:45.880 -> 05:47.640] Joe was just underneath.
[05:47.640 -> 05:50.720] And it's like, that's an achievement to get in the West Ham first team.
[05:50.720 -> 05:52.320] And then you're setting new targets.
[05:52.320 -> 05:54.680] And it's always like, England's the one though.
[05:54.680 -> 05:57.040] Like, because at that point, you're not thinking about winning.
[05:57.040 -> 05:59.800] It's just getting into the first team, becoming a pro.
[05:59.800 -> 06:01.400] And then if you can get into the England team
[06:01.400 -> 06:02.720] and set your new goals and achieve that.
[06:02.720 -> 06:07.000] And when that call comes, or the facts that I got, it was just like...
[06:07.000 -> 06:11.000] First you want to tell your mum, we spoke about this the other day, didn't we?
[06:11.000 -> 06:14.000] You tell your mum, go home and tell your mates on your estate,
[06:14.000 -> 06:20.000] and then you do settle into your bed or your sofa at some point on that day
[06:20.000 -> 06:30.420] and go, right, I am actually one of the best in this country. Yeah, I've got a tape player on, I remember South Africa World Cup 2010, I was on the
[06:30.420 -> 06:35.520] golf course and I remember getting a call from Franco Baldini saying that you're going
[06:35.520 -> 06:39.520] to the World Cup and I've got the call and then he said, by the way, you're going to
[06:39.520 -> 06:43.440] be number nine, right? So then obviously I straight away, the first person I call is
[06:43.440 -> 06:48.560] my dad always. I call my dad and say, dad dad I'm going to the World Cup and I'm wearing number nine
[06:48.560 -> 06:51.720] and then obviously like he put in perspective for me because I thought
[06:51.720 -> 06:53.800] you know great man it's the World Cup that was all I thought about then he
[06:53.800 -> 06:57.600] thought actually he broke it down for me and said think about how many boys and
[06:57.600 -> 07:01.400] girls like play football in England or English who dream of playing for
[07:01.400 -> 07:04.840] England think of how many people make it as a professional footballer think of
[07:04.840 -> 07:07.400] how many people get the chance to play for England, think of how many people make it as a professional footballer, think of how many people get the chance to play for England, then think of
[07:07.400 -> 07:11.340] how many people get the chance to play for England in a World Cup and then think about
[07:11.340 -> 07:17.220] how many people want to wear the number nine and I'm like on this particular occasion,
[07:17.220 -> 07:21.500] it was me. And then like when he broke it down like that I started getting goosebumps
[07:21.500 -> 07:28.000] and thinking oh my god like wait is it this is really prestigious and then Capello proceeded to play me for
[07:28.000 -> 07:31.000] three minutes and I'm to a man.
[07:31.440 -> 07:35.320] You must know when you was going up for the next tee shot you must have been
[07:35.320 -> 07:40.600] confident. England's number nine. I wasn't answering for the first 18 obviously you don't answer your phone do you?
[07:40.600 -> 07:45.520] On the 18th I went what is this number? And then I painfully answered it.
[07:45.520 -> 07:46.520] What was the next shot like?
[07:46.520 -> 07:48.160] No, I was done. I was coming off the green.
[07:48.160 -> 07:49.160] Oh lovely.
[07:49.160 -> 07:50.160] And I answered it.
[07:50.160 -> 07:51.160] A few beers then straight away.
[07:51.160 -> 07:52.160] Oh without doubt.
[07:52.160 -> 07:59.800] Yeah similar to what the boys said, I think playing for England was really important to
[07:59.800 -> 08:10.200] me because where I lived, I used to go and watch England. I used to get on the tube and go and watch England and the 1990 World Cup was pivotal for me.
[08:10.200 -> 08:14.700] Watching Gaza play and do what he did was like, right.
[08:14.700 -> 08:18.400] I remember thinking in my bedroom watching it, but I want to be that.
[08:18.400 -> 08:19.100] I want to be Gaza.
[08:19.100 -> 08:25.160] I want to go to the World Cup and and then so when you get the call to play for England eventually that's all I can think
[08:25.160 -> 08:29.160] of. I just want to do, if I could just leave something, a little memory, because you remember
[08:29.160 -> 08:34.160] Platt's volley? I guarantee all of us after that goal went out, we'd have gone out onto
[08:34.160 -> 08:38.040] the estate and got the lads to throw the ball up and try and do that volley. Do you know
[08:38.040 -> 08:46.000] what I mean? And then the thought of I've got the opportunity to do something like that. He's leading us to his volley against Sweden last week. Is that where you're going?
[08:46.000 -> 08:48.000] You've just ruined it for me.
[08:48.000 -> 08:50.000] So that's where me...
[08:50.000 -> 08:52.000] We've had all these stories before.
[08:52.000 -> 08:54.000] This could have been in any pub in East London.
[08:54.000 -> 08:56.000] I would have just reeled you all in there.
[08:56.000 -> 08:58.000] No, but like, just being able to pull that shirt on,
[08:58.000 -> 09:00.000] play for England,
[09:00.000 -> 09:02.000] and be able to do something like that was
[09:02.000 -> 09:04.000] amazing. And how soon though
[09:04.000 -> 09:08.960] does it go from, like, the pleasure of being picked for England to then wanting to win for England?
[09:08.960 -> 09:12.080] Straight away really, you get the business immediately.
[09:12.080 -> 09:18.800] You get there and it's like, do you know what I was lucky, I was almost used to being around the England squad
[09:18.800 -> 09:28.600] because I went as like a 16 year old to the Euros, Euro 98 in England where it was like a magnificent tournament and they got to the semis and I was there for like probably about
[09:28.600 -> 09:33.080] eight or nine days as a young kid introducing you to the England set up
[09:33.080 -> 09:36.440] but it's a young kid who I think's got potential so I was like so when I went
[09:36.440 -> 09:40.400] there it was I didn't really have that bedding in period where a bit nervous
[09:40.400 -> 09:44.560] still but I've been here type thing so I was very much like okay I want to get
[09:44.560 -> 09:47.660] get in the team now I weren't there just happy to be there as
[09:47.660 -> 09:50.920] a one of the squad players I was thinking I think I should play I think I
[09:50.920 -> 09:54.500] should be in and it's you look around the dressing room and you're thinking
[09:54.500 -> 09:58.340] I'd like Gareth Southgate, Tony Adams, Sol Campbell, Martin Keown and people
[09:58.340 -> 10:02.280] that are in front of me but I actually thought I should be playing and it was
[10:02.280 -> 10:09.880] weird and I actually ended up coming on my debut for Gareth Southgate. He got injured and it's weird to say but you're sitting there
[10:09.880 -> 10:14.800] delighted in a way. It's bad but I hope he's alright but thanks and then you go
[10:14.800 -> 10:18.400] on and you do your thing you hope they never see that player again.
[10:18.400 -> 10:21.720] That's interesting because Glenn done that. Glenn Odo would have been manager bringing the
[10:21.720 -> 10:24.960] young players in and Terry Venables and then we didn't do that under Svender.
[10:24.960 -> 10:26.960] We never saw a young player
[10:26.960 -> 10:31.840] and in all of our era and in St George's Park, when you go up there now, they're all close
[10:31.840 -> 10:37.280] to it, they're all integrated so it immediately takes out that sort of any nerves that these
[10:37.280 -> 10:41.040] young lads going to play for England would have because they've been around it. They've
[10:41.040 -> 10:50.320] seen Harry Kane, they've seen Raheem Sterling, they know them, they've had a coffee with them. I think that's vital for the success going forward.
[10:50.320 -> 10:54.680] My mindset was totally different to these boys I'll be honest because Joe and Rio were
[10:54.680 -> 10:59.440] like 18, 19, I think everyone knew they were going to play for England. Steven Gerrard,
[10:59.440 -> 11:04.200] Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, you know they're on a path to play for England. Mine was different.
[11:04.200 -> 11:09.320] I went round about, I wasn't ready for the Premier League until I was 23. I played
[11:09.320 -> 11:13.760] in it but I wasn't ready for it. So when I got in the England squad it was the back end
[11:13.760 -> 11:18.000] of a season and it was like the tour of America. A lot of people dropped out, you know, but
[11:18.000 -> 11:22.720] I thought this is my chance. As you're an experienced international, that's your right,
[11:22.720 -> 11:28.120] you know, but for me I thought this is my chance there's two games and my mindset was I've got to play
[11:28.120 -> 11:32.320] both of them so I'm not a one-cap wonder and that was genuinely because I thought
[11:32.320 -> 11:35.880] you know there's a way to fit was it a proper course it was I don't want to be
[11:35.880 -> 11:39.800] that one per you get to one cap you know and I got injured for the first game and
[11:39.800 -> 11:46.800] my debut was in the second game in USA and I I did quite well. But then obviously I got
[11:46.800 -> 11:52.200] called up to the next one and thankfully my England career sort of progressed. But I looked
[11:52.200 -> 11:55.820] at it like Rio's talking about, you know, with ultra confidence that he should be playing
[11:55.820 -> 12:00.840] every single game. Mine was, I know I'm not better than Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen.
[12:00.840 -> 12:05.880] I'm happy with that. But my goal was to be the best of the rest.
[12:05.880 -> 12:10.320] They both were quite injury prone and I knew that if I was just behind them at every
[12:10.320 -> 12:17.960] so I'm talking you know Jermain Defoe, Carlton Gold, Dean Ashton got in there, Darren Bent
[12:17.960 -> 12:20.160] So you're saying you're better than them?
[12:20.160 -> 12:22.960] I'm saying my goal was to be better than them.
[12:22.960 -> 12:23.960] You were better than them you said?
[12:23.960 -> 12:29.440] Is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. I want to make sure that I'm the next best basically.
[12:29.440 -> 12:31.440] Yeah, so that was my mindset.
[12:31.440 -> 12:35.400] So, what I love about this is that all three of you, when I say the moment you get called
[12:35.400 -> 12:37.080] up for England, like your eyes light up.
[12:37.080 -> 12:42.560] I remember having a conversation on BT with Rio and Frank and Steven, and I remember Steven
[12:42.560 -> 12:43.560] saying something really interesting.
[12:43.560 -> 12:48.520] He said, playing for England was hard it wasn't enjoyable and then I
[12:48.520 -> 12:53.080] speak to Coutinho who goes away with Brazil and they love it and we never had
[12:53.080 -> 12:57.040] that with England so I think the natural progression for this conversation is you
[12:57.040 -> 13:00.880] go from oh my goodness I'm gonna play for my country and you first at the age
[13:00.880 -> 13:04.880] of six kick in a football dreamed of that moment why are you all now sitting
[13:04.880 -> 13:07.280] here having had brilliant England careers but you
[13:07.280 -> 13:11.000] never lifted a trophy for England? What wasn't right in your era?
[13:11.000 -> 13:14.880] I think one of the biggest things was the media. We never had a relationship
[13:14.880 -> 13:17.800] with the media and that's where you have to say Gareth Southgate's done a remarkable job.
[13:17.800 -> 13:19.400] Why was that a problem?
[13:19.400 -> 13:24.000] Every single manager I played for had a problem with issues with the media.
[13:24.000 -> 13:31.240] They were leaking stories about certain players who were misbehaving, probably, definitely. But
[13:31.240 -> 13:35.200] also it just felt like it was them against us. It wasn't like we're going to the World
[13:35.200 -> 13:40.520] Cup or the Euros together. Whereas the last couple of tournaments it felt like the media
[13:40.520 -> 13:43.880] have gone and said, you know what, we're in this together guys. And he's created that.
[13:43.880 -> 13:45.800] Gareth Southgate and that squad have created that.
[13:45.800 -> 13:50.280] And talking to Stevie, I remember we come on a coach after a game away somewhere
[13:50.280 -> 13:52.480] and we played and we didn't play particularly well, none of us.
[13:53.120 -> 13:55.280] And we're sitting there, I think we, I don't know if we got beat or whatever,
[13:55.280 -> 13:58.360] but he come on the bus and I remember him getting up, putting his bag down,
[13:58.360 -> 14:01.840] sitting down and went, that'll probably be out of four in the paper tomorrow.
[14:02.240 -> 14:05.000] Like, but that type of comment was like,
[14:05.000 -> 14:08.000] that's one of the first things on your mind as an England player then.
[14:08.000 -> 14:12.500] It's not conducive to a good working environment to be the best,
[14:12.500 -> 14:15.000] to be elite, to be a winning team.
[14:15.000 -> 14:18.000] Because you're worried about the reaction of the media
[14:18.000 -> 14:20.500] who are so powerful at that time, especially in our country.
[14:20.500 -> 14:22.500] Bearing in mind there was no social media then.
[14:22.500 -> 14:25.980] So what they said was the gospel.
[14:25.980 -> 14:29.300] It wasn't like you can say stuff now in the media and these papers can write stuff or
[14:29.300 -> 14:34.040] people can say stuff, pundits like ourselves can speak. Players have a voice now and a
[14:34.040 -> 14:40.520] platform to go, no, that ain't right or I don't agree with that. So, I don't know, we
[14:40.520 -> 14:41.520] weren't good enough really, was we?
[14:41.520 -> 14:47.240] Yeah, I do think there's an element of it was the competitiveness of the Premier League. I think
[14:47.240 -> 14:54.120] if I look at like Rio, Becks, Gary Neville, Scholes, you know, you've got JT, Lamps, Joe,
[14:54.120 -> 14:59.480] Stevie, Carragher. Like that Premier League at that time was war. It was two, like four,
[14:59.480 -> 15:05.040] five really, really good teams. And at the core of that were English players.
[15:05.040 -> 15:16.000] And I feel that it was detrimental to the England team how competitive the Premier League was and how much you wanted to get one over on those particular teams.
[15:16.000 -> 15:20.560] I felt that but I've never heard it from someone. Did you feel that when you were in the squad?
[15:20.560 -> 15:26.600] Yeah, I think you could see it. Like for me, I was quite new to it and I think certainly
[15:26.600 -> 15:29.720] the Manchester-Liverpool thing is a thing, right?
[15:29.720 -> 15:30.720] Having played for Liverpool…
[15:30.720 -> 15:31.720] As soon as you signed there, you were the enemy.
[15:31.720 -> 15:36.600] Exactly, right. So Alex Ferguson would put that in your head. The same as anyone from
[15:36.600 -> 15:43.160] Liverpool and even the regional thing. No matter about the team, the teams, how successful
[15:43.160 -> 15:46.200] they are, but as places, it know, it's just a thing.
[15:46.200 -> 15:51.280] And I think it's less, far less fractured just now, you know, they look like they all
[15:51.280 -> 15:54.760] get on. They all look like they're not at war every Saturday, you know, remember those
[15:54.760 -> 16:01.640] games that we played in the Champions League, that was all out like intense games. And the
[16:01.640 -> 16:05.700] two managers, you know, were rivals, everyone everyone was rivals and then you meet up for England
[16:05.700 -> 16:09.880] But how you gonna leave that at the door and then be a team? Yeah to be fair
[16:09.880 -> 16:16.640] I listen to what the boy said, but I think it's more from a pragmatic. I just think tactically we would fallen behind
[16:17.120 -> 16:18.840] no, and
[16:18.840 -> 16:20.960] You have to remember Glenn, you know
[16:20.960 -> 16:25.840] Then Kevin Keegan come in and he didn't he went a bit old-school Kevin and then we went on to Sven
[16:26.080 -> 16:28.080] Sven was doing stuff
[16:28.160 -> 16:34.160] 442 rigid rigid stuff that I was doing at 14 at 14 either said this ain't right, you know
[16:34.160 -> 16:38.500] I'm what I watch Italian football, you know, they're playing in triangles
[16:38.500 -> 16:44.040] They're playing out from the back players taking responsibility and we'd go away with England from the age of under 15s
[16:45.480 -> 16:50.440] right away through every level and we wouldn't have control of the games but I know
[16:50.440 -> 16:55.960] we'd have better players technically physically like mentally like the order
[16:55.960 -> 17:00.640] the England team that all them names you listed Rio John Frank Stevie Rooney
[17:00.640 -> 17:08.400] elite players no doubt I played with the best players in the world we all have like been fortunate enough to do that and they're as good as them, you know
[17:08.400 -> 17:11.080] but tactically I just think it was a case where
[17:11.840 -> 17:15.540] We was going the wrong way down a road of how we believe football should be played
[17:16.280 -> 17:19.840] So far and we'd all been brought up in that sort of system
[17:20.620 -> 17:25.440] So when it comes to international footwear was we wasn't set up to win international football.
[17:25.440 -> 17:29.840] We could win a game off of the brilliance of an England player.
[17:29.840 -> 17:36.000] You know, whether it be a Beckham free-kick, Stevie Scorner won the goal, whatever.
[17:36.000 -> 17:38.800] But I just think the system in place was fragile.
[17:38.800 -> 17:39.800] It wasn't...
[17:39.800 -> 17:42.920] If I asked you, did you ever play in an easy England game?
[17:42.920 -> 17:48.200] Where you come off and you went, that was like the the easiest game like you didn't even get a sweat on. For our clubs
[17:48.200 -> 17:51.400] you could name loads of games you probably forgot more than you'd remember
[17:51.400 -> 17:55.640] how many easy games you had. With England it was never easy I always used to think
[17:55.640 -> 18:01.440] this is graft go to like Moldova and come off sweating thinking Jesus we got
[18:01.440 -> 18:08.240] through that one. Why? Because tactically we were so poor. Like we were so rid of... I remember Capellos... What was our pattern to play? Do you remember?
[18:08.800 -> 18:10.560] No one ever sat me down and gone... There was no pattern to play.
[18:10.560 -> 18:14.160] Right. When you get the ball you need to have this, this, this option. When the goalie gets
[18:14.160 -> 18:18.000] the ball you need to be here. When Rio gets the ball you can be here or here and you know
[18:18.000 -> 18:22.640] like you see with players now there's clear patterns. It's like standard for even the poor
[18:22.640 -> 18:27.040] teams. You can see what they're trying to do. With us, I don't know what we were trying to do.
[18:27.040 -> 18:32.880] We relied on individuals, you look at the big games we won, like Karachi scored the goals in the World Cup,
[18:32.880 -> 18:36.800] it's like individual brilliance, isn't it? It's just because Karachi's there, knows where to be
[18:36.800 -> 18:41.520] instinctively, it ain't like we've worked to get in that position to then play, it was just like
[18:41.520 -> 18:44.800] get it there and then someone will be there to finish it off, Michael Owen in the World Cup.
[18:43.600 -> 18:45.200] them play. It was just like get it there and then someone will be there to finish it off. Michael Owen in the World Cup.
[18:45.200 -> 18:50.600] Did you ever feel you could go and challenge tactics or discuss them in more detail with the coaches?
[18:50.600 -> 18:56.200] No, well Fabio Capello, no. I remember he screamed at Theo Walcott that first session, do you remember?
[18:56.200 -> 19:02.400] Theo Walcott, so like a ghost, he recovered. Because he said before the session, he's like, he played right wing,
[19:02.400 -> 19:06.800] he said, I don't want you to run inside. He was in Australia before South Africa.
[19:06.800 -> 19:08.600] He said, I don't want my wingers to come inside.
[19:08.600 -> 19:10.900] Stay wide, stay wide.
[19:10.900 -> 19:12.200] He really went on about it.
[19:12.200 -> 19:16.600] John, that point, Homan, the first whistle, the first play of the game,
[19:16.600 -> 19:21.000] Theo's run inside and he stopped the session, screamed, going nuts.
[19:21.000 -> 19:26.000] I remember Theo getting on the coach after going, wow, so scared like.
[19:26.000 -> 19:29.960] What does that do then to the rest of the players who are established
[19:29.960 -> 19:32.720] internationals who should be able to share their thoughts or their views?
[19:32.720 -> 19:33.680] Culture weren't like that.
[19:33.680 -> 19:37.880] No, like again, the boys are right in a sense, there was a disjointedness between
[19:37.880 -> 19:41.480] Liverpool, Manchester United and Chelsea players and Crouchy's right, there was
[19:41.480 -> 19:45.400] massive rivalries that don't exist now, that was,
[19:45.400 -> 19:48.440] but I really think it was the tactical side of things.
[19:48.440 -> 19:51.600] And if you go on to Capello, who, by the way,
[19:51.600 -> 19:54.160] is been a genius and what a career he's had,
[19:54.160 -> 19:56.520] you know, you can't disregard what he's done.
[19:56.520 -> 19:58.880] But my problem with Capello, when I was fit,
[19:58.880 -> 20:02.320] he played me, part of the World Cup, like went to 2010.
[20:02.320 -> 20:05.520] But the way that he didn't live in England, I thought
[20:05.520 -> 20:09.680] which if you're an England manager you've got to be, you've got to lead like
[20:09.680 -> 20:14.040] Gareth does, you know, he's a, he's a, he's more, he's a figure isn't he? He talks
[20:14.040 -> 20:18.360] well, he's part of St. George's Park, you know, like I said I just think there
[20:18.360 -> 20:22.000] wasn't no care and attention, it turned up when it was close to an England game
[20:22.000 -> 20:25.040] and then what done me was at the World Cup
[20:28.800 -> 20:33.120] when they were all watching Italy, like hollering and hooting when they scored. Like I just think that the foresight of that wasn't great, it was not good optics.
[20:33.120 -> 20:34.240] Sodiq Ganiyu It bothered you?
[20:34.240 -> 20:36.480] Joe Pideman It bothered me as an Englishman,
[20:36.480 -> 20:39.680] you know, and I just think there's a reason why it must have bothered some people above,
[20:39.680 -> 20:43.440] because since then we've not gone for a foreign manager. I firmly believe,
[20:44.720 -> 20:45.680] especially now in the
[20:45.680 -> 20:50.280] current climate where you have the ability to develop coaches, there was a scarcity of
[20:50.280 -> 20:54.520] good managers and coaches to take the job when Fabio and Sven got the job, that we didn't
[20:54.520 -> 20:59.880] have enough. But nowadays there's no excuse to not produce managers and coaches to come
[20:59.880 -> 21:05.960] like Gareth Southgate. The next run of them will be Potter, Eddie Howe, Frank, Stevie, Scotty Parker.
[21:05.960 -> 21:09.480] If you look at them now though, you obviously do a bit of coaching and stuff, but you see
[21:09.480 -> 21:14.960] the coaches on the way they coach now, and you go to watch any kind of academy games,
[21:14.960 -> 21:19.600] the football is replicating what you see in the Premier League, Man City type football,
[21:19.600 -> 21:21.400] what Potter's produced at Brighton, etc.
[21:21.400 -> 21:25.680] It's all fluid through the lines, playing through. There's no long ball game really now.
[21:25.680 -> 21:28.160] You can see how much they've worked on that in training.
[21:28.160 -> 21:34.320] I know it's slightly different when you've got a group for maybe a week or ten days.
[21:34.320 -> 21:39.040] It's not you can't work on it every single day but I don't remember working on much.
[21:39.040 -> 21:39.680] Do you?
[21:39.680 -> 21:40.480] Set pieces.
[21:40.480 -> 21:42.400] Set pieces and defending.
[21:42.400 -> 21:45.040] But if you took England England if you can get
[21:45.040 -> 21:49.900] back in time machine and take an England team from 2002 and think you got all
[21:49.900 -> 21:54.040] these great players be free and what's been a problem handling the ball in
[21:54.040 -> 22:00.040] tournaments at important times so you ain't got a tell Rio Fernand, John Terry
[22:00.040 -> 22:09.120] had to defend, Ashley Cole, Gary Neville like they can play in the four. So I think the time would have been better off used to implementing patterns
[22:09.120 -> 22:13.840] of play, how to hold on to the ball, encouraging players. And I think we're
[22:13.840 -> 22:18.480] still not good at this where we don't get the technical players. We've still to
[22:18.480 -> 22:22.080] this day, and I love Gareth and what he's done is amazing and everything, but
[22:22.080 -> 22:30.240] technical players who can handle the ball, like there's still a mistrust that comes from historically like you know we talk players
[22:30.240 -> 22:34.800] like Madison, Grealish, Mount, Foden, they can't all play but at least two of them should be on
[22:34.800 -> 22:39.920] the pitch at all times for England possibly three. Handling the ball. I think that's a good point in
[22:39.920 -> 22:45.320] terms of handling the ball but it's also our generation for definite was
[22:45.320 -> 22:49.000] never brought up and this generation is a bit better but still nowhere near what
[22:49.000 -> 22:55.200] Spain and Italy and France are like. We were always taught do not pass the ball
[22:55.200 -> 22:58.880] to a man with someone marking him. Well if you're gonna win you need
[22:58.880 -> 23:01.240] to pass the ball to people that are marked to be able to take that man out
[23:01.240 -> 23:04.640] the game sometimes. I mean and if you have got someone under a bit of pressure
[23:04.640 -> 23:06.520] give it to him, be confident to give it to him.
[23:06.520 -> 23:10.200] Whereas that's where you end up going away from what your principles are
[23:10.200 -> 23:12.320] and your values are as a team because you're not confident.
[23:12.320 -> 23:14.240] And you remember, you're told don't give it to him,
[23:14.240 -> 23:16.200] it's risk to pass it into someone who's marked.
[23:16.600 -> 23:19.400] And so I think there's a lot of things, reasons why we didn't win.
[23:19.400 -> 23:20.800] I think definitely I agree with the guys.
[23:20.800 -> 23:27.000] I think that the tactics of our team and the generation was bad for the players we had. Dwi'n cyd-dod â'r ffyrdd. Rwy'n credu bod y tactigrwyr o'n tîm a'r generatio yn ddau ar gyfer y chwaraewyr rydyn ni wedi'u cael.
[23:27.000 -> 23:32.000] Ond rwy'n teimlo bod yr amgylchedd ddim yn yr amgylchedd da i greu tîm a gynhyrchu.
[23:32.000 -> 23:36.000] Gallaf gofyn i chi ymlaen yma, oherwydd pan ydyn ni'n ymwneud â Gareth, roedd e'n siarad gyda ni.
[23:36.000 -> 23:40.000] Roedd e'n ceisio rhannu'r cwmpas yn y gwleidyddiaeth a gwneud yn cwmpas a gwleidyddiaeth.
[23:40.000 -> 23:49.160] Un o'r ffyrdd roedd e wedi'i wneud oedd gan ddod o glwyddo i'r chwaraewyr ddweud ychydig o'u stori eu hunain, And one of the ways he'd done it was by getting players to tell a little bit of their own story So you can see more what you have in common rather than what divides you like club loyalties
[23:49.720 -> 23:55.800] So was anything ever done like that in terms of breaking down barriers or have you know, you've in hotels where you've got all this time
[23:56.360 -> 23:59.200] Was anything ever done where people can tell a little bit of their background?
[23:59.200 -> 24:02.220] A few drinks in the bar after games. That was it and that was
[24:03.320 -> 24:06.120] To be fair. That was the tool used mainly
[24:06.120 -> 24:11.240] to you know break down barriers social lubricant have a little drink. It was good though wasn't it?
[24:11.240 -> 24:17.080] It was good but there was nothing done like like I said that that is Gareth Southgate
[24:17.080 -> 24:22.200] a proud Englishman who clearly loves the job who's not leaving a stone unturned
[24:22.200 -> 24:25.840] in doing everything to try and change the culture
[24:25.840 -> 24:30.600] of what's gone on before and trying to improve on what's needed. These little details, they
[24:30.600 -> 24:31.600] can help.
[24:31.600 -> 24:39.320] Yeah, but I also think the England national team has benefited from a, I don't want to
[24:39.320 -> 24:43.680] say less competitive Premier League, but a less aggressive Premier League if you like.
[24:43.680 -> 24:51.240] I think we all remember Roy Keane in the tunnel, would that happen now? Little things like that, I'm talking
[24:51.240 -> 24:53.680] about tackles flying in.
[24:53.680 -> 24:55.600] We almost had a fight, I don't remember.
[24:55.600 -> 25:00.880] We've had fights, we were mates with England but things would go on on the pitch.
[25:00.880 -> 25:01.880] Who'd win that fight?
[25:01.880 -> 25:10.280] I don't know, well Rio would. I just feel like, I definitely think the Premier League is a different place now than
[25:10.280 -> 25:16.300] what it was. I think we can all agree on that. I think it's an amazing product. We all love
[25:16.300 -> 25:20.840] watching it but it's not what it was in those days.
[25:20.840 -> 25:26.320] It doesn't have the subplots that it was in our time. You knew that you I don't know You're the Sun so it's playing songs
[25:26.320 -> 25:30.640] So there would be some sort of subplot whether it's the two managers at it or there'll be a player
[25:30.640 -> 25:35.880] You know doesn't like that player and there'll be like an aggressive a spark that could just change the whole dynamics of the game
[25:36.000 -> 25:39.640] It doesn't really seem that and I think the reason why that isn't the same now is
[25:40.040 -> 25:44.520] Because one the personalities and characters are different and their upbringings have been different
[25:47.720 -> 25:48.280] Because one the personalities and characters are different and their upbringings have been different but also with social media you're now
[25:51.660 -> 25:52.240] You're now without ever meeting someone you're a mate
[25:56.120 -> 25:59.400] So all of these players like each other's pictures, which is the culture today They like each other's pictures and chat on Instagram never met each other
[25:59.440 -> 26:02.440] So when they do see each other in England, it's like what's happening you out?
[26:02.440 -> 26:06.240] Yeah, because they've got a common place where they've been connected and whereas if I
[26:06.240 -> 26:11.320] didn't see Karachi home and away in the games and I'd see him in England I
[26:11.320 -> 26:14.520] wouldn't chat to him ever again really I might see him on a night out but he
[26:14.520 -> 26:17.160] wouldn't remember he'd be too drunk.
[26:17.160 -> 26:26.400] Why did none of you and you know there were other big leaders in the England team at the time. Why did nobody see this and change
[26:26.400 -> 26:27.400] this?
[26:27.400 -> 26:37.040] Go back to 2010 and you know we talked about why didn't anyone go to the manager? JT tried
[26:37.040 -> 26:41.320] to speak to the manager and he was the captain along with Rio at that time, I can't remember
[26:41.320 -> 26:46.160] but like big players and he just got absolute shut down, right.
[26:46.160 -> 26:52.160] So JT then come out and he did an interview before one of the World Cups and he was like,
[26:52.160 -> 26:57.040] well, you know, I can't remember, he was like, we're going to have a chat with the manager
[26:57.040 -> 27:00.800] about something in the meeting, the press must have asked the question, the results
[27:00.800 -> 27:08.400] were bad. And then we had this meeting arranged with Capello, it was going to be the players and the manager and it was gonna have a conversation about what we can do
[27:08.400 -> 27:11.520] And we turned up and then he just went go to dinner
[27:12.120 -> 27:14.220] And that was it and I'm like
[27:14.800 -> 27:18.480] Probably could have been handled a bit better in terms of how you ask about it
[27:18.480 -> 27:24.920] But if you we could have had a really forthright conversation just before a World Cup and we could have got aired things
[27:24.920 -> 27:28.400] You know really forthright conversation just before a World Cup and we could have got aired things you know. I think the culture was different though, the culture was different because
[27:28.400 -> 27:32.520] that's like it was almost like these managers then probably saw it more like
[27:32.520 -> 27:37.120] your question in my the way I rule this thing. But other nations were able to win tournaments and
[27:37.120 -> 27:40.840] competitions like they were doing something that England weren't like.
[27:40.840 -> 27:44.720] There was chalk and cheese wasn't it, we had Sven which was just so relaxed and then
[27:44.720 -> 27:47.020] and then we would get it was getting labeled like player power
[27:47.020 -> 27:51.140] players are running the show you know and so they went so far the other way so
[27:51.140 -> 27:55.120] you weren't allowed to speak to Fabio Capello because he ruled it with an iron
[27:55.120 -> 27:58.780] fist it was like we it was like we had this that didn't work so we're gonna have
[27:58.780 -> 28:03.980] this now and we were just told this is how we do it until things started going
[28:03.980 -> 28:05.440] badly at a World Cup
[28:06.120 -> 28:10.880] and all the you know kind of things that were banned or stops were allowed to
[28:11.320 -> 28:16.440] We tried to relax us because he realized he sort of panicked mid-tournament that we weren't performing and
[28:16.440 -> 28:20.080] Sven was bringing like shirts to get signed by Bextor, I don't remember
[28:20.080 -> 28:25.040] He was the England manager, I couldn't believe it. Getting shirts, like Bexter signed shirts.
[28:25.040 -> 28:26.040] I was almost like...
[28:26.040 -> 28:28.960] What was your perception of that when you're seeing a manager do that?
[28:28.960 -> 28:34.880] I just turned away in disgust. I was like, whoa. The England manager's like, he's the
[28:34.880 -> 28:39.960] man, isn't he? Your manager is like, you look at him as if he's the rules of roost. He directs
[28:39.960 -> 28:45.720] where we're going. He looks a no man in this team with like admiration or
[28:45.720 -> 28:50.360] would show that, oh, bit of a star, bit of an icon there. It just felt like that was
[28:50.360 -> 28:55.280] the, I was like, wow, it's just, it was mad as well. It is weird this, but Bex is an
[28:55.280 -> 29:00.000] absolute superstar and we're all happy and that's fine. That's not a problem. But
[29:00.000 -> 29:04.800] it's mad. We used to laugh at it as a team because I remember we got off to coach once
[29:04.800 -> 29:05.540] and Bex got off to coach once
[29:05.540 -> 29:09.620] and Bex were off to coach and all of our security just went with Bex.
[29:09.620 -> 29:13.580] And the whole team was standing there and there's fans coming from all over the place
[29:13.580 -> 29:17.580] and they're going, we're all getting marauded by all these fans, pictures here and there.
[29:17.580 -> 29:22.780] And you look around and Bex is just, it wasn't his fault, it's just the security, he's the
[29:22.780 -> 29:24.780] superstar I've got to look up to.
[29:24.780 -> 29:25.640] But for me, I didn't give a the superstar but that it was it isn't
[29:25.640 -> 29:29.760] it for me I didn't give a hell about anything like that, it won't bother me but when you
[29:29.760 -> 29:33.560] look at it afterwards with hindsight you think okay there must have been some
[29:33.560 -> 29:37.800] people subconsciously, subconsciously some people might go flipping oh yeah
[29:37.800 -> 29:41.560] there's one more for him, one for us it's like and then it just that that's just a
[29:41.560 -> 29:44.800] little tweak in the ambience then and the environment and the culture that it
[29:44.800 -> 29:45.260] changes it could be a problem for and contribute to why you didn't become And then it just that that's just a little tweak in the ambience then and the environment and the culture that it changes
[29:45.260 -> 29:51.540] It could be a problem for as a contribute to why you didn't become successful not the bill and endle
[29:51.540 -> 29:53.620] But if you know I mean so that will cope in
[29:53.740 -> 29:59.380] 2010 that you're describing it like if you take Spain as an example at the time when Mourinho and Barcelona
[29:59.800 -> 30:04.300] Mourinho's Madrid and Barcelona were at loggerheads and there's that story that
[30:06.720 -> 30:12.520] Marinos, Madrid and Barcelona were at loggerheads and there's that story that the goalkeeper Casillas and Xavi had just connected on a private phone call because they'd gone back
[30:12.520 -> 30:17.640] through the Eurofrancs and they agreed to stop the MNC to bring the squad together for
[30:17.640 -> 30:21.880] the World Cup. Did any of the players ever get together privately if you've not got the
[30:21.880 -> 30:27.840] manager that's encouraging it? Did any of you reach out and try and build these bonds? I didn't but like I said I
[30:27.840 -> 30:32.900] could sense now looking back that the things but because of my
[30:32.900 -> 30:37.120] character I didn't, I was always a bit of a floater anyway I could go and mix
[30:37.120 -> 30:40.800] mingle with anyone, I knew Rio very well, I knew Michael Carrick, he was my roommate for
[30:40.800 -> 30:46.280] four years at West Ham so yes and I didn't feel like I wasn't like
[30:46.280 -> 30:52.160] one of the main, I wasn't in the leadership group, like one of the main people. So it
[30:52.160 -> 30:57.080] wasn't really, I'm going to go if I'd have started a group chat, I'd have gone, what's
[30:57.080 -> 31:03.200] Coley doing? Come on mate. I feel like I'm in that boat as well. They'd have laughed
[31:03.200 -> 31:05.920] me out of the room. But I decided, yeah, I went along
[31:05.920 -> 31:08.880] with whatever went to be. I was just happy to be there.
[31:08.880 -> 31:12.360] Maybe you just thought this was what playing for England was like. Almost every former
[31:12.360 -> 31:17.040] England player that I now work with on the telly says, oh, playing for England was like
[31:17.040 -> 31:22.520] scary. I was rigid. I was tight. I was anxious about the reaction to media. I was never free.
[31:22.520 -> 31:23.520] Is that true?
[31:23.520 -> 31:28.560] I think so. For me, yeah, it was until I started scoring. I always felt like I had to prove,
[31:28.560 -> 31:31.880] I had to score in every game just to stay in there because I didn't fit the profile
[31:31.880 -> 31:35.440] of an England player, I didn't look like an England player, I was different to everything
[31:35.440 -> 31:40.960] else so I felt like, yeah, I felt there was, you could feel it. I remember starting the
[31:40.960 -> 31:45.000] first game of the World Cup in 2006 and in the dressing room
[31:45.000 -> 31:49.240] beforehand players were doing things that they'd never done before. I definitely felt
[31:49.240 -> 31:54.320] that there was a nervousness. You just notice things around, and I'm talking smallest details
[31:54.320 -> 31:59.320] like Rio was saying, the smallest little things. We'd have a huddle before we went out, never
[31:59.320 -> 32:03.400] done that before. I know it's a big game but we've never done that before so why are we
[32:03.400 -> 32:05.280] doing that now? Just tiny little things.
[32:05.280 -> 32:06.280] Do you remember?
[32:06.280 -> 32:07.280] Everyone was looking at each other like that.
[32:07.280 -> 32:10.880] Yeah it was like, why are we in a huddle?
[32:10.880 -> 32:15.320] Just little things like that before you go out and play Paraguay in the opening game.
[32:15.320 -> 32:19.160] You just think, that's nervousness.
[32:19.160 -> 32:21.720] It breeds and you can feel it.
[32:21.720 -> 32:26.360] But it showed you there was no real leadership from the top, from the manager then.
[32:26.360 -> 32:28.360] Because I think the managers drive it.
[32:28.360 -> 32:30.360] I think all the clubs that I've played at
[32:30.360 -> 32:34.440] the manager drove the way the team carried themselves
[32:34.440 -> 32:36.440] and there was a reflection of the manager.
[32:36.440 -> 32:39.160] And the England team,
[32:39.160 -> 32:41.920] we didn't have a real identity
[32:41.920 -> 32:44.760] under Sven and under Capello.
[32:44.760 -> 32:46.880] It was just, your identity was all
[32:46.880 -> 32:51.640] wrong because of the person who was in charge and he reflected that person. With Sven we
[32:51.640 -> 32:56.980] were quite a nervous team at times. Do you know what I mean? We were placid in everything
[32:56.980 -> 33:02.200] we'd done, passive in the way that we played. We just relied on the individuals to come
[33:02.200 -> 33:07.820] in and produce a performance or a moment. We got to the World Cup because of Bex against Greece.
[33:07.820 -> 33:10.180] If Bex doesn't play, we don't go.
[33:10.180 -> 33:12.660] It's just an individual's performance who got us there.
[33:12.660 -> 33:14.720] It's crazy but that's just how we were.
[33:14.720 -> 33:17.580] So it shows you that the functionality of the whole team was wrong.
[33:17.580 -> 33:19.780] So if you look back now then, what do you think?
[33:19.780 -> 33:24.580] Sorry, and just to go back to the point about Xavi and Casillas, I respect that because
[33:24.580 -> 33:27.400] that's a maturity to see it and then address it.
[33:27.400 -> 33:34.320] I think we were too club dominant. It's like almost thinking we're going to go back to our clubs.
[33:34.320 -> 33:37.200] What's the gaffer going to say? What's the fans going to say?
[33:37.200 -> 33:42.880] Because our fans didn't, they'd say, bomb the England team and come play for United.
[33:42.880 -> 33:44.800] That's the way it was back then.
[33:44.800 -> 33:46.800] That's what Alex Ferguson encouraged as well, right?
[33:46.800 -> 33:51.200] So, the same as most of the club managers, I think, they don't care about your national team, do they?
[33:51.200 -> 33:54.000] There's absolutely no care given at all towards that.
[33:54.000 -> 33:59.600] In the same sense, though, the Spanish were ahead of their time tactically as well.
[33:59.600 -> 34:06.700] So, even like they won the World Cup probably in spite of the fact that they probably weren't and also
[34:07.280 -> 34:11.780] Chavi and Casillas is maturity coming together. So they had the tactical now
[34:11.960 -> 34:17.000] They had the quality players and then they had to get togetherness and that's why they won three tournaments
[34:17.040 -> 34:20.820] So it's like we're trying to find the reason why we England didn't win
[34:20.820 -> 34:28.200] There's probably multiple reasons and we also have to say have to say maybe we wasn't good enough as well individually. Look at some of the teams
[34:28.200 -> 34:34.960] there at that time. Brazil, you know, some of the teams there, France, Spain, Germany.
[34:34.960 -> 34:40.000] Yeah we have to be, it's hard for the ego and we might say well maybe we just
[34:40.000 -> 34:44.800] wasn't good enough as well so all of these things we discussed have all
[34:44.800 -> 34:46.120] probably played a small part of it.
[34:46.120 -> 34:49.680] So Gareth Southgate's job is to make sure he can't do nothing about the quality
[34:49.680 -> 34:51.600] of players. I think we've got the quality of players,
[34:52.200 -> 34:54.760] but he can put a system in place, the tactical system.
[34:54.760 -> 34:57.480] He can get the environment right and he can set the culture right.
[34:57.880 -> 35:01.360] So that when they lie, like he has done when he's had difficult moments at
[35:01.360 -> 35:04.520] tournaments, they can come through their moments.
[35:04.520 -> 35:08.180] Whereas we, when we had a difficult moment at tournament someone got sent
[35:08.180 -> 35:12.800] off doing something rash or a team just broke us down and we lost up you know
[35:12.800 -> 35:17.400] composure because you need to have everything to win a tournament.
[35:17.400 -> 35:22.880] You know the England team now I think they're hamstrung by the way that Gareth sets them up
[35:22.880 -> 35:25.540] it's because of his fear of what could happen
[35:25.540 -> 35:31.080] to the defenders. I don't think he trusts the defenders enough defensively to be able
[35:31.080 -> 35:36.920] to go right, go and play. I think he's playing like that with the reins still on a lot of
[35:36.920 -> 35:42.100] the players. When you look at our attacking players that we've got, in any generation
[35:42.100 -> 35:46.040] they're top players and you look at other teams, would they be
[35:46.040 -> 35:49.720] fearful of those players if they were let off the leash? Yes, they would I think. But
[35:49.720 -> 35:55.480] because of the fragility at the back, I think that there means that there's a cautiousness
[35:55.480 -> 35:57.720] to the way that Gareth is setting our team up.
[35:57.720 -> 36:04.720] The best teams we see at the moment like leave 2-2, let's be honest, we couldn't do that.
[36:04.720 -> 36:08.080] And then you go into this tournament now, Kyle Walker injured,
[36:08.080 -> 36:12.640] Maguire's injured at the moment and out of form, John Stone's injured. They're the
[36:12.640 -> 36:16.520] first three that you was gonna pick probably Gareth Southgate for this
[36:16.520 -> 36:21.880] World Cup. He hasn't got them to put out there so where did we go now?
[36:21.880 -> 36:24.360] Where do we go?
[36:24.320 -> 36:26.960] put out there. So where do we go now? Where do we go?
[36:32.240 -> 36:36.500] As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising campaigns. But a deep voice doesn't sell B2B and advertising on the wrong
[36:36.500 -> 36:41.080] platform doesn't sell B2B either. That's why if you're a B2B marketer, you should
[36:41.080 -> 36:45.040] use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has the targeting capabilities to help you
[36:45.040 -> 36:50.320] reach the world's largest professional audience. That's right, over 70 million decision-makers
[36:50.320 -> 36:56.160] all in one place. All the big wigs, then medium wigs, also small wigs who are on the path
[36:56.160 -> 37:00.880] to becoming big wigs. Okay, that's enough about wigs. LinkedIn ads allows you to focus
[37:00.880 -> 37:09.240] on getting your B2B message to the right people. So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
[37:09.240 -> 37:10.640] voice in the world?
[37:10.640 -> 37:11.640] Yes.
[37:11.640 -> 37:12.840] Yes, it does.
[37:12.840 -> 37:17.360] Get started today and see why LinkedIn is the place to be, to be.
[37:17.360 -> 37:20.600] We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign.
[37:20.600 -> 37:23.840] Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit.
[37:23.840 -> 37:26.160] That's LinkedIn.com slash results.
[37:26.160 -> 37:27.360] Terms and conditions apply.
[37:27.360 -> 37:29.320] Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.
[37:29.320 -> 37:33.320] At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does.
[37:33.320 -> 37:35.920] They charge you a lot, we charge you a little.
[37:35.920 -> 37:39.920] So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we
[37:39.920 -> 37:43.680] decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you.
[37:43.680 -> 37:44.680] That's right.
[37:44.680 -> 37:49.400] We're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try
[37:49.400 -> 37:51.680] at MintMobile.com.
[37:51.680 -> 37:54.160] $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees. Promote for new
[37:54.160 -> 37:56.520] customers for limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slows.
[37:56.520 -> 37:59.720] Full terms at MintMobile.com.
[37:59.720 -> 38:03.520] On our podcast we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a
[38:03.520 -> 38:06.200] better way so you can live a better life.
[38:06.200 -> 38:09.560] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share.
[38:09.560 -> 38:14.240] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their
[38:14.240 -> 38:17.560] phone plans online and passes those savings to you.
[38:17.560 -> 38:21.820] And for a limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new customer offer
[38:21.820 -> 38:25.620] that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month
[38:25.620 -> 38:34.440] when you purchase a 3 month plan. That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month. And by
[38:34.440 -> 38:39.400] the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison to providers that we've
[38:39.400 -> 38:46.840] worked with before is incredible. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans for $15 a
[38:46.840 -> 38:51.840] month. So say bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans, those jaw dropping monthly bills, those
[38:51.840 -> 38:56.320] unexpected overages, because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text and high
[38:56.320 -> 39:02.380] speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint
[39:02.380 -> 39:06.000] Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.
[39:06.000 -> 39:14.000] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month.
[39:14.000 -> 39:27.240] To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash HPP. That's mintmobile.com slash HPP. Cut your wireless
[39:27.240 -> 39:33.520] bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash HPP. Additional taxes, fees and
[39:33.520 -> 39:38.080] restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.
[39:39.320 -> 39:43.840] Well I was going to ask you to pick up on that point you made Joe around you
[39:43.840 -> 39:45.640] need things to go perfectly and yet
[39:45.680 -> 39:53.320] You know, it never does so how much planning was ever done on things going wrong people getting sent off divisions in a cam
[39:53.320 -> 39:57.600] Media stuff how much was that ever discussed? Nothing not I can remember
[39:57.880 -> 40:00.820] It's meant was it sounds like people be home going what?
[40:01.320 -> 40:08.360] Like but is that was literally was we knew the system we was gonna play you knew who was gonna play
[40:08.960 -> 40:13.400] More or less knew what us, you know, and we were gonna do the same thing for all different stages of the games
[40:13.920 -> 40:19.120] And that was it. That's our fault. That's why I say tactically because we never changed to an opponent ever
[40:19.880 -> 40:30.240] No, like you could have done saying the qualifier when we play one of them games if we'd like Rio said we could played Moldova or Macedonia and we won the game say we won again 3-1 and if you've actually
[40:31.200 -> 40:33.800] Not pulled pulled the game apart and got old on a minute
[40:33.800 -> 40:39.840] We had we could have so much more possession if we'd have had a Michael Carrick in there and it would have allowed Rio
[40:39.920 -> 40:42.280] Ferdinand to drop into the midfield and then come back
[40:42.280 -> 40:48.820] Why don't we work on that for the next camp the next game when we're playing a San Marino at home, we're going to win the
[40:48.820 -> 40:52.780] game because we can play with nine men and win the game. But if we can just get that
[40:52.780 -> 40:57.980] part, we'll work for three days on getting that part of the team, right? Bang, right.
[40:57.980 -> 41:01.700] Okay, we'll win the game. And there was an improvement in that. I was getting out, you
[41:01.700 -> 41:04.140] know, and then we'll take that into the next game. Then we'll go right. This is the middle
[41:04.140 -> 41:06.920] phase of the pitch, but it was none of that. And
[41:06.920 -> 41:12.920] that's why I hear what the lads are saying about, you know, that could have been solved
[41:12.920 -> 41:13.920] easily but if you're at the base.
[41:13.920 -> 41:19.360] That goes to the point as well, you only enjoy being somewhere with football if you're winning
[41:19.360 -> 41:24.200] or if you're playing well at least, minimum, do you know what I mean? You could be going
[41:24.200 -> 41:25.280] where it's the best atmosphere
[41:25.280 -> 41:27.840] that Gareth Syfe put together.
[41:27.840 -> 41:29.600] The ambience, the environment's perfect,
[41:29.600 -> 41:30.920] the culture's great,
[41:30.920 -> 41:32.760] but they're getting beat every game
[41:32.760 -> 41:34.640] and they don't look like they're ever gonna win a game
[41:34.640 -> 41:36.080] and the football's rubbish.
[41:36.080 -> 41:37.760] No one player will come out of there going,
[41:37.760 -> 41:40.320] it's a great, great squad though, love being here.
[41:40.320 -> 41:41.160] They'd all hate it.
[41:41.160 -> 41:42.000] So you've got to get the balance.
[41:42.000 -> 41:44.520] Did you three enjoy playing for England?
[41:44.520 -> 41:45.000] Yeah, I did.
[41:45.000 -> 41:46.000] I did.
[41:46.000 -> 41:47.000] I did.
[41:47.000 -> 41:48.000] I loved it.
[41:48.000 -> 41:52.500] I think like whenever I played, like I say, I knew I was sort of like a plan B at times.
[41:52.500 -> 41:55.500] But you can still be proud, but like actually enjoy it.
[41:55.500 -> 41:56.500] I enjoyed it.
[41:56.500 -> 41:57.500] I did.
[41:57.500 -> 42:07.840] I was unbelievably proud and the pride that I took walking out and again, like I say knowing you're one of the best in your country
[42:09.400 -> 42:12.000] Never left me every time I stepped out for England
[42:12.840 -> 42:14.840] Every time I got called up there was a buzz
[42:15.240 -> 42:17.600] but I never enjoyed
[42:18.320 -> 42:23.200] The games I enjoy training. I'd like training and stuff. I love training every day
[42:23.520 -> 42:28.920] But I've never come out of a squad and go, I absolutely love that camp. Because there were things that weren't
[42:28.920 -> 42:33.360] good about the camp and there was the game where, like I say, we never had a game where
[42:33.360 -> 42:39.280] I went, you know what, we are a problem for everyone. Play anyone, we could beat anyone.
[42:39.280 -> 42:40.280] Didn't feel like that.
[42:40.280 -> 42:46.320] Yeah, for me, I was just selfish in many ways because I just thought I'm playing for England
[42:46.320 -> 42:49.280] right and I just thought I'm playing with all these great players and every time I pulled
[42:49.280 -> 42:52.400] on an England shirt I felt I was going to score. I felt like I was an invincible player
[42:52.400 -> 42:53.400] for England.
[42:53.400 -> 42:54.400] They couldn't defend you could they?
[42:54.400 -> 42:57.800] Honestly, international football and Champions League football, I'd prefer to play that than
[42:57.800 -> 43:02.200] I'd play in the Premier League. I just felt that they couldn't handle me and I felt like
[43:02.200 -> 43:08.000] I was going to games knowing I was going to score. I had Beckham on the right, I've got Joe Cole on the left, I've got Stevie
[43:08.000 -> 43:14.220] behind me, Frank behind me. I felt invincible, literally. I'm talking purely from a selfish
[43:14.220 -> 43:18.920] point of view. I'm not looking at the bigger picture, I'm thinking about me scoring, playing
[43:18.920 -> 43:22.240] for England and every time I went to an England game I felt like I was going to score.
[43:22.240 -> 43:27.560] What defenders did you play against who you thought were super star defenders, top top
[43:27.560 -> 43:31.240] players that you went and played at international or champions league level and thought, hold
[43:31.240 -> 43:33.400] on a minute, I've just torn you apart.
[43:33.400 -> 43:37.200] Mate, honestly, it sounds stupid but I don't even know if I should say it.
[43:37.200 -> 43:41.960] I know the answer, I know the answer, that's why I've asked you.
[43:41.960 -> 43:50.480] Do you know I said this the other day, I'd prefer to play against Nesta than Gary Kale. But from my
[43:50.480 -> 43:59.200] qualities, and what my qualities are, I feel like I could dominate him. And that sounds
[43:59.200 -> 44:04.080] ridiculous, I know it does, but I just felt like from my qualities, they never saw anything
[44:04.080 -> 44:09.400] like me in Europe. And I used that to my advantage.
[44:09.400 -> 44:10.400] Yeah.
[44:10.400 -> 44:12.840] There's something really interesting I think that's come out of this conversation, which
[44:12.840 -> 44:16.800] is that, you know, Peter felt almost lucky, right, to be playing for England. And you've
[44:16.800 -> 44:21.480] been very honest about that. Whereas, you know, you've got like a Rolls Royce footballer,
[44:21.480 -> 44:28.320] which what you were referred to as, who almost expected to play for England because you were at the absolute top of your game. Yet for Peter, there was
[44:28.320 -> 44:31.440] freedom playing for England, for you there was restriction playing for England, and I
[44:31.440 -> 44:36.360] think that comes down to expectations. So I would love to know from the three of you
[44:36.360 -> 44:41.760] what this tag of golden generation did or didn't do for all of you.
[44:41.760 -> 44:46.820] The golden generation, the burden was probably on Rio more, John,
[44:46.820 -> 44:51.780] I think I was on the cusp of that, I played 56 times but if I went and done something,
[44:51.780 -> 44:55.240] scored a goal or made a goal and assisted it, it was everyone patting me on the back
[44:55.240 -> 45:01.920] but it wasn't expected of me, Wayne Rooney, the spine of the team, bore the brunt of that.
[45:01.920 -> 45:06.360] In the Premier League these boys were superhuman levels, it was like Rio
[45:06.360 -> 45:14.760] and JT, like Lampson, Stevie, Rooney, Owen. What they did in the Premier League was so
[45:14.760 -> 45:18.760] unbelievable that everyone just assumed that would happen for England and they'd all be
[45:18.760 -> 45:25.440] the same at doing it and that's hard to replicate. I grew up watching John Barnes and Chris Waddle for England.
[45:25.440 -> 45:28.080] Two of the best, most talented players of their generation
[45:28.080 -> 45:29.080] booed for England.
[45:29.080 -> 45:30.080] Yeah.
[45:30.080 -> 45:31.640] Told they shouldn't be playing.
[45:31.640 -> 45:33.080] So when I got into the England team
[45:33.080 -> 45:35.040] and we were labelled the Golden Generation,
[45:35.040 -> 45:38.320] it wasn't our fault, it was just that we were labelled it.
[45:38.320 -> 45:40.160] It was almost like, well, I've seen this before,
[45:40.160 -> 45:43.160] I've heard this before, I've seen big talents before me,
[45:43.160 -> 45:48.040] better players than me, booed and told they shouldn't play for for England so I can't moan about it. But I didn't
[45:48.040 -> 45:52.020] find it a huge burden, it was just mainly in press conferences when people would talk
[45:52.020 -> 45:58.620] about it, it would come up, I'd never thought about it outside of that. But I think some
[45:58.620 -> 46:02.820] people dealt with it differently, some people felt that pressure a bit more. Probably more
[46:02.820 -> 46:07.520] attacking players as well because there's an expectancy you've got to go and produce something. A lot of defenders are reacting
[46:07.520 -> 46:11.520] to people's movements and strikers whereas as an attacking player you've got to go out
[46:11.520 -> 46:16.400] there and score and if you don't you're meant to be the golden generation. So it's difficult
[46:16.400 -> 46:18.400] for them I'm sure more than myself.
[46:18.400 -> 46:23.200] So knowing everything you know, having pulled on the shirt for your country so many times,
[46:23.760 -> 46:25.440] as we approach another World Cup,
[46:25.440 -> 46:28.160] what is the message you would like to put out there,
[46:28.160 -> 46:31.200] not just to the England manager and his staff and the players,
[46:31.200 -> 46:33.840] but also to the public and also to the media about
[46:33.840 -> 46:37.760] what needs to be done to release the shackles,
[46:37.760 -> 46:41.280] to release the pressure, to allow expression and freedom
[46:41.280 -> 46:42.480] at an international level?
[46:42.480 -> 46:44.240] Because I think until we can get to that point,
[46:44.240 -> 46:48.560] then it's always going to be hard for the players. I think they're doing it fantastically well
[46:48.560 -> 46:56.480] I think we're so quick to criticize this England team that have got to a semi-final to a final of major tournaments
[46:56.480 -> 47:01.400] Maybe that's what we should stop doing then. I think we should celebrate them. I really do. I feel like there is
[47:02.360 -> 47:06.800] You know a lot of stick for a manager that has done incredibly well, something
[47:06.800 -> 47:10.600] that we couldn't achieve, we couldn't get to a final.
[47:10.600 -> 47:13.960] And yeah, I think there are certain things that we're going to criticise, but as England
[47:13.960 -> 47:16.280] manager that's always going to be the case.
[47:16.280 -> 47:21.680] Some of the pressure situations, you see Harry Kane's penalties, or just defending or getting
[47:21.680 -> 47:27.500] into that situation where they get across the line in the final, We were a whisker away, a penalty away from winning it.
[47:27.500 -> 47:31.500] You know, let's not forget how far we've come under Gareth Southgate.
[47:31.500 -> 47:35.500] And I think that also goes back to the FA, like how they've started developing players.
[47:35.500 -> 47:41.700] Like some of our young players now are the hottest talent around, you know, like German teams.
[47:41.700 -> 47:47.880] But I mean, they're sniffing around our young players under 17 level, under 16 level, under 21 level, under 18 level.
[47:47.880 -> 47:48.880] We've come a long way.
[47:48.880 -> 47:51.800] You know, we used to, Spain, we looked at Spain's model.
[47:51.800 -> 47:53.720] We were like, you know, this is the players we want to produce.
[47:53.720 -> 47:55.960] We're producing naturally gifted footballers now.
[47:55.960 -> 47:58.400] And I think, you know, we should celebrate that.
[47:58.400 -> 48:03.960] I think there's probably as many, if not more, scouts at England games in the youth system
[48:03.960 -> 48:09.960] than like places like Germany, France, Spain now and that tells you the development of our youth system
[48:09.960 -> 48:13.680] has been nothing short of magnificent. So I agree with Karachi wholeheartedly, you've
[48:13.680 -> 48:18.680] got to celebrate that and what Gareth Southgate has created there has been
[48:18.680 -> 48:22.000] nothing short of phenomenal. It's compared to what we're talking about
[48:22.000 -> 48:27.440] what we went through and if you compare this to what we've been witnessing for the last two tournaments
[48:27.440 -> 48:30.160] We should be sitting in saying thank God for Gareth Southgate and his team
[48:30.160 -> 48:35.140] We can all sit here and pick apart his tactics and say that he Joe don't agree with this
[48:35.140 -> 48:38.120] I don't agree that crash you don't agree with this. That's fine. That's part of football
[48:38.120 -> 48:41.680] I think Gareth Southgate would allow that and say you know what that's part of the course
[48:42.080 -> 48:44.240] But to sit here and say we should get rid of him
[48:44.960 -> 48:47.100] After what he's done it. think is it's like it's
[48:47.100 -> 48:51.640] absolutely crazy. And the players will see that by the way. Yeah and I think that then filters to the
[48:51.640 -> 48:54.700] players and then the nervousness maybe from the manager that might be
[48:54.700 -> 48:58.780] subconscious they then feel that and then that affects the squad so as media
[48:58.780 -> 49:04.400] as fans support them for remember the feeling that we had in around the
[49:04.400 -> 49:07.000] stadiums when we was all going to the games in the Euros.
[49:07.000 -> 49:13.000] Remember the feeling around the country, what that done. People going off school, businesses closing for their moments.
[49:13.000 -> 49:18.000] Like that's because of what that team done. We quickly forget far too often.
[49:18.000 -> 49:22.000] Yeah, well said. I just think we need to remember what these boys have done. We need to remember that.
[49:22.000 -> 49:28.200] And also I think it's a bit like when you play poker and you push your hands in and there's nothing you can
[49:28.200 -> 49:32.760] do. We're here now. We haven't had a good run in. We've got Gareth Southgate's done
[49:32.760 -> 49:38.520] a great job and we're in. So if my message to the fans, the media, anyone who's got anything
[49:38.520 -> 49:42.200] of a connection with England is that these are your sons, your brothers, the kids on
[49:42.200 -> 49:47.320] your estates who are going there. They've come through all of the adversity to become England players.
[49:47.320 -> 49:52.420] They put a body of work together and now they're going to a World Cup, which we, which really
[49:52.420 -> 49:53.780] we know they can win.
[49:53.780 -> 49:55.460] We know they got a chance, right?
[49:55.460 -> 49:57.200] So you just need to put everything aside.
[49:57.200 -> 49:59.920] Like I said, we'll all sit there and have a different system and a different way of
[49:59.920 -> 50:00.920] playing to Gareth Southgate.
[50:00.920 -> 50:01.920] It's irrelevant.
[50:01.920 -> 50:02.920] Gareth's the manager.
[50:02.920 -> 50:04.920] Now let's all get behind him.
[50:04.920 -> 50:05.000] All them players, send them players to Qatar, knowing that they've got the whole country to Gareth Southgate, it's irrelevant. Gareth's the manager, let's all get behind him. All
[50:05.000 -> 50:09.800] them players, send them players to Qatar knowing that they've got the whole country behind
[50:09.800 -> 50:13.800] them, the fans, the media, the ex-players, you know. If you send them there with that
[50:13.800 -> 50:18.120] message and there's going to be difficult moments, we're not going to go and win a tournament
[50:18.120 -> 50:21.520] and there's not going to be a hairy moment, we might have to come through some adversity,
[50:21.520 -> 50:29.320] someone might get sent off, it might be a penalty shootout, but rest assured that we've got a manager who's ticked every box, who's
[50:29.320 -> 50:33.880] had sleepless nights because he's a proud Englishman and he's done everything he can
[50:33.880 -> 50:37.520] within his power and all the people at St George's Park and the FA and whoever has coached
[50:37.520 -> 50:42.880] these kids, they've all done the best they can and that's all we can ask for and go there
[50:42.880 -> 50:46.800] and support them and enjoy because when someone
[50:46.800 -> 50:48.960] does it, it's going to be incredible.
[50:48.960 -> 50:53.440] So Gareth told us that one of the things that he's started doing is bringing former players
[50:53.440 -> 50:59.360] back in to present shirts to the squad the night before games. If you were invited back
[50:59.360 -> 51:00.360] in and you could...
[51:00.360 -> 51:01.360] I've done it.
[51:01.360 -> 51:04.160] And if you could, well what was the one message then that you delivered to the squad?
[51:04.160 -> 51:10.880] I absolutely melted. I don't get nervous, like, you know, but I had to go in, I was working, doing the game and
[51:10.880 -> 51:16.640] Gareth said, would you give the shirt to Calum Hudson-Odoi and another lad who'd made the debut
[51:16.640 -> 51:20.160] just before the kickoff, like an hour and a half before the kickoff. And I've not been in an
[51:20.160 -> 51:25.560] England dressing room for like a good seven, eight years. But in my head, I'm thinking
[51:25.560 -> 51:29.560] that's a breeze. Like, you know, just that they're my peers, my colleagues play football
[51:29.560 -> 51:33.120] with them. They're only footballers. I've got in there. The legs started shaking. I
[51:33.120 -> 51:37.960] started stuttering. I went, I was like, I just, the lads must've been looking at me
[51:37.960 -> 51:41.040] thinking, who is this guy? I was all over the gas.
[51:41.040 -> 51:46.800] Well, I like Damien's question. If you were able to give one message to those lads, what
[51:46.800 -> 51:48.800] would the message be if you went in there?
[51:48.800 -> 51:55.400] No fear. Don't have any fear. Shackles off. One opportunity to go to this World Cup and
[51:55.400 -> 51:58.760] win it. Go out there and just do your thing.
[51:58.760 -> 52:03.960] My message to the team would be, there's going to be lots of trials and tribulations in this
[52:03.960 -> 52:07.920] tournament. We don't know what we're gonna face you know we're prepared for everything
[52:07.920 -> 52:12.920] but go out there and the one thing when we get on that plane to leave Qatar with
[52:12.920 -> 52:18.580] the trophy or without a trophy you make sure that you have no regrets you you
[52:18.580 -> 52:23.920] live it from now until then so when you're 15 years down the line working
[52:23.920 -> 52:25.320] in media you know we
[52:25.320 -> 52:30.000] can all pat you on the back as legends. I'll go with that one.
[52:30.000 -> 52:36.640] You know what I think the last thing I think for teams, for the players I think you have to
[52:36.640 -> 52:44.200] expect criticism. I think far too many players and people that are involved in
[52:44.200 -> 52:47.560] the game nowadays is almost like oh you shouldn't you shouldn't say that about me. I
[52:48.640 -> 52:50.280] 100% agree
[52:50.280 -> 52:52.380] If it's personal it's over the line
[52:52.520 -> 52:58.640] It's too far if we're talking tactics and the way your game is and whatnot and about the 90 minutes
[52:59.200 -> 53:01.280] You're an open book. You should be sitting there and going
[53:01.280 -> 53:06.000] You know what if I can take anything out of it great if I don't agree with it close the book move on
[53:06.000 -> 53:09.960] don't take these things personal expect it especially in a tournament you're in
[53:09.960 -> 53:13.920] that bubble expect the criticism is going to come and use it as fuel yeah I
[53:13.920 -> 53:18.400] do think sort of like sort of hop back on to where we were playing but I do
[53:18.400 -> 53:22.280] think some of the some of the stuff was was below the belt like like some of the
[53:22.280 -> 53:28.520] some of the things were were nasty, I remember personally going through a lot, my mum stopped buying newspapers.
[53:28.520 -> 53:30.920] What sort of caricatures and things like that?
[53:30.920 -> 53:37.720] Yeah, just complete mick-taking, you know like schoolboy stuff, you know, but like it affects you, it becomes a thing,
[53:37.720 -> 53:42.920] you know, and like I think it was definitely an issue for me.
[53:42.920 -> 53:43.920] In what way?
[53:43.920 -> 53:46.360] Well I went from playing for Southampton and as soon as you
[53:46.360 -> 53:50.880] get in the England squad, things are heightened. Then I went to Liverpool and I went for a
[53:50.880 -> 53:55.920] spell and not scoring goals, which was well documented. I just became a figure of fun,
[53:55.920 -> 54:01.240] instantly. You've got to remember my mum and dad are in the crowd. I remember coming on
[54:01.240 -> 54:10.240] at Old Trafford and getting booed by my own fans. And it was probably a little bit of that between Liverpool and Man United, that kind of rivalry,
[54:10.240 -> 54:12.240] but that was obviously crept into the stands.
[54:12.240 -> 54:19.120] So my mum and dad and sister are in the crowd and the whole England, the whole stand and the whole stadium are booing me.
[54:19.120 -> 54:23.840] Because of maybe a little campaign against me to not be in England's squad.
[54:23.840 -> 54:29.120] Let's be honest, I'm a 24 year old kid right I'm getting booed by my own fans and I'm
[54:29.120 -> 54:34.840] thinking about my mum as I'm coming on to play for England. Yeah she's in tears
[54:34.840 -> 54:38.280] you know and I knew she'd upset her and she didn't come to an
[54:38.280 -> 54:42.440] England game for the next five six times but these are all things that sort of
[54:42.440 -> 54:46.480] going on behind behind the scenes but for me personally, I don't show any weakness.
[54:46.480 -> 54:49.080] I'm like, I come on the pitch and I do as well as I can.
[54:49.680 -> 54:51.880] But I don't show, I don't say to any of the lads like...
[54:51.880 -> 54:53.640] You weren't a game you scored against Jamaica, was it?
[54:53.640 -> 54:54.880] No, I wasn't. I wish I was.
[54:54.880 -> 54:58.160] But like I say, like that, I had to sort of deal with that.
[54:58.560 -> 55:02.880] And then I'm obviously really proud of myself for coming back from that
[55:02.880 -> 55:07.500] and then showing those people like, you know know coming through at Liverpool, starting to score again
[55:07.500 -> 55:13.040] And then staying in England squad and playing at two World Cups after that, you know like that for me is a great sense of achievement
[55:13.920 -> 55:17.800] Well, there's a famous story that Jack Charlton when he was first picked for England
[55:17.800 -> 55:21.280] he went to Alfred Amsey and said to him like why have you picked me and
[55:22.200 -> 55:25.720] Alfred Amsey said I don't pick the best players, I pick the right players.
[55:26.300 -> 55:32.800] So what would you describe are the right characteristics then for the right England players to succeed?
[55:33.320 -> 55:39.800] Personality, personality above and what I mean by that, I mean a player who's gonna go and
[55:40.440 -> 55:41.960] demand the ball,
[55:41.960 -> 55:44.440] demand to be put on the spot and the spotlight,
[55:44.880 -> 55:49.160] Demand the ball, demand to be put on the spot, on the spotlight. It could be a centre-half, whether he's the one in the last five minutes,
[55:49.160 -> 55:51.600] who you know when that ball's going to come in,
[55:51.600 -> 55:54.680] he's going to put his face in the right area and get the ball.
[55:54.680 -> 55:59.840] It's going to be a midfielder, when we're losing 2-0 against Germany,
[55:59.840 -> 56:03.280] who's going to come on, demand the ball when Wembley's turning.
[56:03.280 -> 56:06.320] It's a centre-forward who you know when he goes through one-on-one,
[56:06.960 -> 56:12.240] he's going to choose the right players. You've got the personality above the ability and you need to
[56:12.240 -> 56:14.640] look at the fact that you've done that consistently.
[56:14.640 -> 56:16.800] Reporter
[56:16.800 -> 56:20.800] On that subject, do you think that what you're touching on there is the right player for that
[56:20.800 -> 56:25.120] particular game or that particular personality but do you
[56:25.120 -> 56:30.040] think that you know all the players that we had maybe it might not fit the right
[56:30.040 -> 56:33.560] system all those players will just fit in because there's such good players you
[56:33.560 -> 56:38.440] know do you think we could have perhaps dropped one of those Galacticos
[56:38.440 -> 56:41.240] if you like in the Premier League and played another in Hargreaves yeah you
[56:41.240 -> 56:48.280] know or dropped one of the forwards or you felt like, and it was a situation that
[56:48.280 -> 56:52.740] was levelled at us quite a lot, we're just putting all the best players together and
[56:52.740 -> 56:53.740] going, crack on.
[56:53.740 -> 57:00.500] Yeah, that definitely happened. But I do think, and you could have appeased that by playing
[57:00.500 -> 57:07.800] a different shape. If we had a diamond in midfield or created a three to create overloads in midfield you might have worked but I totally agree
[57:07.800 -> 57:10.720] with you I don't think the managers were strong enough at the time to go right
[57:10.720 -> 57:15.140] hold on Becks you got to sit on the bench or Steven or Frank, you got to sit on the
[57:15.140 -> 57:19.040] bench you just was almost like can't do that. I remember when I first started
[57:19.040 -> 57:26.580] playing we played Northern Ireland and it was at home. We were Neil Neil leading up to the game
[57:26.580 -> 57:31.240] I was playing really well and we but it was Beck Stevie Frank and me in the
[57:31.240 -> 57:36.800] midfield I spoke to Kieran Dyer after the game and it was after I think I
[57:36.800 -> 57:41.200] scored the opening goal after three or four minutes and Kieran and I was
[57:41.200 -> 57:44.120] playing well you know you know you know you're playing well and I was it was
[57:44.120 -> 57:45.080] coming but Kieran said to me Sven said you know, you know, you're playing well and I was it was coming but
[57:46.160 -> 57:49.320] Kieran said to me Sven said to me go and warm up you're coming on for Joe
[57:49.600 -> 57:55.580] Do you not mean but that would that was spends mindset? I can't take even though Joe's outperforming them in this game. I
[57:56.600 -> 58:01.560] Can't take them off and Joe's looking like he's gonna open up in the end. I scored the goal
[58:01.840 -> 58:06.000] We went on to win the game three or-4-1 and Kieran sat down.
[58:06.000 -> 58:08.800] But I would have known that Kieran would come up to me and said to me,
[58:08.800 -> 58:10.800] you was coming off, you know, I was like, fuck.
[58:10.800 -> 58:12.480] So that's the pressure probably.
[58:12.480 -> 58:15.480] That's what we were talking about, we felt that we had to work like,
[58:15.480 -> 58:21.400] I have to score in every single game because I know that if I don't, I'm not coming back.
[58:21.400 -> 58:26.240] I think to go back to your question about what a player needs when you're playing for
[58:26.240 -> 58:32.240] England, I think the ability to forget mistakes quickly at that level.
[58:32.240 -> 58:33.240] Yeah.
[58:33.240 -> 58:37.720] I've seen top players come through into the England squad or players that are terrorising
[58:37.720 -> 58:42.320] the Premier League at a certain point in their career and they get to the England squad,
[58:42.320 -> 58:46.800] even just in training, forget the game and they make a mistake and they get to the England squad, even just in training, forget the game, and they make a mistake and they do not recover and you think,
[58:46.800 -> 58:51.400] hold on, that's the difference, it's there, up there, get that right in terms of,
[58:51.400 -> 58:54.800] okay, if I make a mistake, erase it as quickly as possible and don't let it have a hangover
[58:54.800 -> 58:58.200] and you move on and you can build your performance off the strength of something like that
[58:58.200 -> 59:01.000] and far too many have that hangover.
[59:01.000 -> 59:04.400] Very good. Listen, gentlemen, thank you so much for that conversation.
[59:04.400 -> 59:05.600] Great to reminisce,
[59:05.600 -> 59:09.440] great to reflect and I hope there's something in there that people will hear and it will
[59:09.440 -> 59:13.840] inform them about how to deal with the modern generation of England players and who knows
[59:13.840 -> 59:15.400] what will happen in the next few weeks, eh?
[59:15.400 -> 59:19.400] And if they don't win it, we'll cane them.
[59:19.400 -> 59:29.360] Damien, in some ways I'm sad to sit and have that conversation for 45 minutes
[59:29.360 -> 59:35.200] and you know Peter obviously has grateful memories, Joe maybe a bit but you know Rio
[59:35.200 -> 59:40.440] particularly for a winner who won so much at club level like it's sad that that was
[59:40.440 -> 59:45.680] a relatively negative sort of memory of playing for your country from those guys. Yeah I think you can divide it up into three things that they spoke about there some of oedd hynny'n ymwneud â'r ymdrechion cymdeithasol o'ch wlad o'r tywyllau hynny?
[59:45.680 -> 59:48.880] Ie, rwy'n credu y gallwch ei ddiflannu i ddau pethau y sgwrnoddant yno.
[59:48.880 -> 59:51.680] Rhywfaint o hynny oedd o ran y diwygiad a'r amgylchedd,
[59:51.680 -> 59:53.520] rhai o'r hyn oedd o ran y tactigau,
[59:53.520 -> 59:56.800] ac y rhai cymaint oedd o ran y mentaleidd y ffyrdd
[59:56.800 -> 59:59.120] sydd ganddi yno, y gwybod,
[59:59.120 -> 01:00:02.320] a'r hyn rydyn ni wedi'i weld drwy ein cyfrifiadau gyda Gareth
[01:00:02.320 -> 01:00:06.640] a Pippa Grange a Eric Dier, somebody in that squad,
[01:00:06.640 -> 01:00:14.400] that steps have been taken to remedy all three of those areas that what the three guys we've just sat with didn't experience.
[01:00:14.400 -> 01:00:17.680] I think in some ways it's great to have this conversation now ahead of another World Cup
[01:00:17.680 -> 01:00:23.280] because I feel that all the things that they had problems with, Gareth and the FA have worked really hard to solve.
[01:00:23.280 -> 01:00:27.020] But in other ways it blows my mind. I remember watching this England team thinking these guys
[01:00:27.020 -> 01:00:30.220] are so good they're going to go and win a tournament and here they sit, you know,
[01:00:30.220 -> 01:00:34.300] 15, 20 years later saying, well we didn't really talk about culture, well we didn't
[01:00:34.300 -> 01:00:38.340] really work on tactics, well we weren't very flexible, well certain players were
[01:00:38.340 -> 01:00:41.820] always going to be played, well the manager was getting David Beckham to sign
[01:00:41.820 -> 01:00:45.000] his shirt and that made me think this is ridiculous. You know, all these things were going on or a lot of things weren't going on and you think you missed a'r rhai a oedd yn cael David Beckham yn ymddangos ei siarad, a dyna'n gwneud i mi meddwl mai dyna'n ddiddorol.
[01:00:45.000 -> 01:00:48.000] Roedd y pethau hynny'n digwydd, neu roedd y rhai ddiddorol hynny ddim yn digwydd,
[01:00:48.000 -> 01:00:51.000] ac rydych chi'n meddwl, rydych chi wedi rhaid i'r torfenni gwyllt
[01:00:51.000 -> 01:00:53.000] gyda'r Paul Scoles, a'r Stephen Gerrard,
[01:00:53.000 -> 01:00:55.000] a'r Frank Lampard, a'r Rios, a'r Joes,
[01:00:55.000 -> 01:00:57.000] a'r Crouches, a'r Wayne Roonies,
[01:00:57.000 -> 01:00:59.000] dyna'n rhaid i'r genedlaethau
[01:00:59.000 -> 01:01:02.000] o gyfleusog yng Nghymru, oherwydd y diwydiant.
[01:01:02.000 -> 01:01:05.000] Iawn, yn debyg, ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn darparu,
[01:01:05.000 -> 01:01:08.000] rwy'n credu bod y tôn hwn yn mynd i'r ffwrdd gweithredu
[01:01:08.000 -> 01:01:10.000] i weld bod ddifrifiaeth ddim yn digwydd.
[01:01:10.000 -> 01:01:12.000] Ddifrifiaeth yw'r fflwr,
[01:01:12.000 -> 01:01:15.000] ond mae fframwaith a'r amgylchedd yn seilio ar yr hyn y gallwch ei wneud.
[01:01:15.000 -> 01:01:17.000] Ac er mwyn i hynny ddod yn awgrym
[01:01:17.000 -> 01:01:18.000] ac yn ymddangos,
[01:01:18.000 -> 01:01:20.000] fel rydym wedi gweld drwy Gareth
[01:01:20.000 -> 01:01:22.000] a llawer o rai teimladau gwleidyddol yn ei wneud,
[01:01:22.000 -> 01:01:26.960] dydych chi ddim yn cyrraedd y gallu y mae gennych chi'n amlwg. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y byddant yn cyrraedd yn y modd da. Lots of other national teams doing it you don't achieve the potential that you undoubtedly have and I just hope that they respond in
[01:01:26.960 -> 01:01:32.160] The right way and I just hope the public and the media and you know people like me that sit on the telly and talk
[01:01:32.160 -> 01:01:34.160] About football I hope we all respond in the right way
[01:01:34.500 -> 01:01:38.660] When you hear Peter quite emotionally talking about what he actually does to you
[01:01:38.900 -> 01:01:42.540] When you're getting criticized and we can look at someone like Trent Alexander-Arnold
[01:01:42.860 -> 01:01:46.160] In the modern game and he will be feeling the same emotions that Peter's feeling and then we expect them to play y gallwn edrych ar rhywun fel Trent Alexander-Arnold yn y gêm modern ac fe fydd yn teimlo'r un emociau
[01:01:46.160 -> 01:01:50.400] y mae Peter yn teimlo ac yna rydym yn gobeithio eu chwarae'n dda ac yna rydyn ni'n pilaru nhw'n fwy pan nad ydyn nhw'n chwarae'n dda.
[01:01:50.400 -> 01:01:53.760] Wel, wrth gwrs, dydych chi ddim yn chwarae'n dda pan dyna beth sy'n digwydd i chi.
[01:01:53.760 -> 01:01:57.120] Wel, pa mor ofn y gafodd y gyda ni'r sgwrs hwnnw, ymdrechiad ar ystyried?
[01:01:57.120 -> 01:02:01.840] Mae'n ddifrif iawn i gael ystyried ar yr hyn i gyd ddim yn chwarae'n dda ar Trent Alexander-Arnold,
[01:02:01.840 -> 01:02:27.320] er mwyn y gallwn ymdrechiad gyda'rhaid i ni ddweud y byddai'r cyngor yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn y cyfnod hwnnw yn the byd. culture for other young talents to thrive. Thanks, mate. Thanks, mate. Loved it.
[01:02:29.600 -> 01:02:29.880] Jack White, welcome to the High Performance Podcast.
[01:02:31.600 -> 01:02:31.960] Is that a phrase you ever thought you'd hear?
[01:02:33.320 -> 01:02:33.480] No, actually not.
[01:02:36.160 -> 01:02:37.680] Um, it's still kind of echoing around my head.
[01:02:42.040 -> 01:02:43.480] Well, look, one of the highlights for us is, um, is speaking to people who listen to this podcast.
[01:02:43.480 -> 01:02:45.720] So I'm always fascinated by how people find this
[01:02:45.720 -> 01:02:46.560] in the first place.
[01:02:46.560 -> 01:02:49.040] How did you stumble across High Performance?
[01:02:49.040 -> 01:02:51.240] Friend of a friend just told me about it.
[01:02:51.240 -> 01:02:53.120] And if I'm honest, when I first heard
[01:02:53.120 -> 01:02:54.740] what High Performance was,
[01:02:54.740 -> 01:02:56.320] I had a very different impression
[01:02:56.320 -> 01:02:57.480] of what it turned out to be.
[01:02:57.480 -> 01:02:59.640] So I actually tuned in for one reason.
[01:02:59.640 -> 01:03:01.000] And the reason I still tune in now
[01:03:01.000 -> 01:03:02.000] is actually very different.
[01:03:02.000 -> 01:03:02.840] Tell us more.
[01:03:02.840 -> 01:03:04.640] So I initially tuned in, I mean,
[01:03:04.640 -> 01:03:08.240] my early professional career has been pretty intense.
[01:03:08.240 -> 01:03:13.120] So I was working for a big global organization, Microsoft, and I tuned in because I want to
[01:03:13.120 -> 01:03:14.120] climb.
[01:03:14.120 -> 01:03:16.360] And I was like, I want to climb to the top, high performance, this works for me, I'm going
[01:03:16.360 -> 01:03:20.520] to find ways to not hack the system, but continue to grow.
[01:03:20.520 -> 01:03:24.400] And what kept me tuned in is it actually opened my mind to say high performance is far more
[01:03:24.400 -> 01:03:28.000] than that. High performance is high happiness, as you guys say so often.
[01:03:28.000 -> 01:03:30.560] And that's what keeps me coming back is that I actually use
[01:03:30.560 -> 01:03:33.760] the podcast to reflect, listen to other points of view,
[01:03:33.760 -> 01:03:36.400] and kind of broaden my mind more so than like,
[01:03:36.400 -> 01:03:38.240] how do I get ahead? How do I climb?
[01:03:38.240 -> 01:03:40.560] So it's been a weird transition, but I'm really glad it happened.
[01:03:41.200 -> 01:03:44.560] So what was the first episode then that you tuned in to listen to?
[01:03:44.560 -> 01:03:48.560] Oh, goodness me, you're testing me, Damien. I think it was probably one of the Formula One
[01:03:48.560 -> 01:03:54.000] boys. I can't remember exactly who it was, but I listened to a podcast called Beyond the Grid
[01:03:54.000 -> 01:03:58.000] and one of them had come up and the guys had said, hey, go and listen to Hyperwomans podcast,
[01:03:58.000 -> 01:04:02.640] you'll like it. So I started in relative comfort zone and it moved on. But some of my favourite
[01:04:02.640 -> 01:04:07.820] speakers are far beyond those kind of words. Like One of the most recent ones, a guy called Mo Gawdart, who I thought I'd
[01:04:07.820 -> 01:04:12.140] never met, never kind of heard of, but loved everything he talked about his son, everything
[01:04:12.140 -> 01:04:15.820] he talked about the notions of live for now, live for playing, don't focus on that end
[01:04:15.820 -> 01:04:21.860] goal. Roxy Nafusi, again, amazing in terms of her visualization manifesting your goals.
[01:04:21.860 -> 01:04:25.500] Guys like Greg Jackson, who again, would never listened to before, but
[01:04:25.500 -> 01:04:27.820] actually the angle he came at super
[01:04:27.820 -> 01:04:29.360] human, I love the idea of you're my
[01:04:29.360 -> 01:04:31.460] equal. So like I've spread my
[01:04:31.460 -> 01:04:32.880] listening much further afield than I
[01:04:32.880 -> 01:04:34.240] would have done if I hadn't listened
[01:04:34.240 -> 01:04:35.360] to a podcast like this.
[01:04:35.640 -> 01:04:37.280] So obviously the people that are
[01:04:37.280 -> 01:04:38.760] listening to this conversation at the
[01:04:38.760 -> 01:04:39.780] end of one of our episodes have
[01:04:39.780 -> 01:04:41.060] already found high performance,
[01:04:41.320 -> 01:04:42.400] right? So there's a reason why
[01:04:42.400 -> 01:04:43.160] they're already here.
[01:04:43.760 -> 01:04:47.720] I think one of the big challenges for people is how you adopt what you hear on
[01:04:47.720 -> 01:04:50.000] the podcast into what you do in your everyday life.
[01:04:50.000 -> 01:04:52.360] Have you got any advice for people when it comes to that?
[01:04:52.640 -> 01:04:53.020] Yeah.
[01:04:53.020 -> 01:04:57.060] So it's, it's interesting because you always ask this, um, your interviewees,
[01:04:57.060 -> 01:04:58.480] like what's high performance means to you.
[01:04:58.480 -> 01:05:01.960] And I think as I've gone through the different episodes and time spent listening
[01:05:01.960 -> 01:05:06.960] to you both and your various guests, how I've started to apply it is, well, what does high performance mean to me? Every single
[01:05:06.960 -> 01:05:10.960] definition that I hear is super subjective. And I think that's a lot of the core of what
[01:05:10.960 -> 01:05:14.720] high performance is. So for me, it's all around actually defining what that is for me and then
[01:05:14.720 -> 01:05:19.520] applying it to my life. And for me, it's maximum effort and minimal struggle. So whatever area of
[01:05:19.520 -> 01:05:23.680] my life I'm looking at, how am I putting the maximum effort in and how am I turning that into
[01:05:23.680 -> 01:05:26.160] the least resistance possible? So that could be my relationships.
[01:05:26.160 -> 01:05:27.520] It could be within work.
[01:05:27.520 -> 01:05:29.560] It could be socializing, could be my passion points.
[01:05:29.840 -> 01:05:32.560] How do I set myself up for success in every way possible?
[01:05:32.560 -> 01:05:36.480] And that can be in many different forms, but using some of the skills and areas
[01:05:36.480 -> 01:05:40.240] of focus that your different interviewees talk about has helped me really do that.
[01:05:40.880 -> 01:05:45.760] And what's been the most notable skill that you've taken from one of our guests that
[01:05:45.760 -> 01:05:51.120] you've been able to apply directly to your world? So, uh, Greg Hoffman has the amazing
[01:05:51.120 -> 01:05:56.240] three non-negotiables, which I've written on my wall, which are be empathetic, be curious
[01:05:56.240 -> 01:05:59.920] and play to win. And that I apply across everything in my life. And I think it's one of the most
[01:05:59.920 -> 01:06:04.560] succinct ways to describe high performance, but you can apply that to literally any scenario that
[01:06:04.560 -> 01:06:05.400] you're in. And I think it's
[01:06:05.400 -> 01:06:05.920] fantastic.
[01:06:06.200 -> 01:06:09.680] Man, I love these conversations. And what about Jack, right? When
[01:06:10.000 -> 01:06:12.060] there is struggle, because I think one of the things that we
[01:06:12.060 -> 01:06:14.880] try and talk about as well is that life isn't struggle free,
[01:06:14.920 -> 01:06:17.840] particularly things that are worth having. They don't come
[01:06:17.840 -> 01:06:22.560] for free. So yes, you can want to give it your all and to do it
[01:06:22.560 -> 01:06:24.760] with the least resistance. But are you also accepting that
[01:06:24.760 -> 01:06:28.480] sometimes there is resistance and that's also okay? Yeah, I think I just learn to enjoy
[01:06:28.480 -> 01:06:32.800] the resistance and recognize it. Like, I think the best lesson again is someone like Mo Gawd,
[01:06:32.800 -> 01:06:37.840] it's like you live to play the game and know that playing the game is part of, well, really the main
[01:06:37.840 -> 01:06:41.520] focus of why you're here. So every time I see resistance, it's a learning opportunity. And
[01:06:41.520 -> 01:06:46.080] for me, like, I want to push myself into uncomfortable scenarios, enjoy
[01:06:46.080 -> 01:06:48.340] that discomfort, and then recognise the growth off the
[01:06:48.340 -> 01:06:50.840] back of it. So really, if anything, I'm looking forward to
[01:06:50.840 -> 01:06:53.200] resistance rather than having to kind of change my perspective
[01:06:53.200 -> 01:06:53.440] on it.
[01:06:53.640 -> 01:06:56.600] I love that. Jack, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
[01:06:56.640 -> 01:07:00.600] And we wish you the very best of luck with everything. Keep
[01:07:00.600 -> 01:07:02.000] spreading the word about high performance.
[01:07:02.400 -> 01:07:03.400] Thanks, guys. Take care.
[01:07:05.680 -> 01:07:07.800] Well, listen, thank you so much for listening to today.
[01:07:07.800 -> 01:07:09.440] Don't forget, if you want to join us
[01:07:09.440 -> 01:07:12.080] for our live theater show, then you can do so.
[01:07:12.080 -> 01:07:15.720] Just go to thehighperformancepodcast.com for tickets.
[01:07:15.720 -> 01:07:19.240] We're visiting nine cities around the UK in 2023,
[01:07:19.240 -> 01:07:21.480] and we would love to meet you.
[01:07:21.480 -> 01:07:23.860] Thanks so much for growing and sharing this podcast
[01:07:23.860 -> 01:07:24.800] among your community.
[01:07:24.800 -> 01:07:25.800] The last couple of weeks,
[01:07:25.800 -> 01:07:28.560] we've broken all of our records for listens and shares
[01:07:28.560 -> 01:07:30.220] and downloads and views.
[01:07:30.220 -> 01:07:32.500] So please continue to spread the learnings you're taking
[01:07:32.500 -> 01:07:33.600] from high performance.
[01:07:33.600 -> 01:07:35.160] Thanks to the whole team for their hard work
[01:07:35.160 -> 01:07:36.020] on today's episode.
[01:07:36.020 -> 01:07:39.200] Thanks too to BT Sport, but most of all, thanks to you.
[01:07:39.200 -> 01:07:41.560] Remember, it's all there for you.
[01:07:41.560 -> 01:07:43.320] Chase world-class basics
[01:07:43.320 -> 01:07:45.240] and don't get high on your own supply.
[01:07:45.240 -> 01:07:48.800] Remain humble, curious, and empathetic.
[01:07:48.800 -> 01:08:05.000] And we'll see you soon. Bye!