Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 24 Oct 2022 00:00:21 GMT
Duration:
56:37
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Ryan Holiday is an author, most well known for his philosophical insights in The Daily Stoic. For Jake, this conversation was “the single most exciting episode” they have recorded so far. They discuss everything Stoic, from ego to discipline and much more. Ryan shares how having a strong sense of who you are is crucial, having a set of key priorities will put you in the right direction, rather than following the flow of everyone else.
They discuss how we can spot ego within other people and how we can direct them through it. Ryan explains the importance of living a disciplined life, the benefits it offers, how we cannot put it upon other people and how you can instil it in your life.
Ryan’s latest book ‘Discipline is Destiny’ is out now:
https://amzn.to/3DoHpYe
- - - - - - -
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**Introduction**
* The guest for this episode is Ryan Holiday, an author known for his philosophical insights in The Daily Stoic.
* Jake Humphrey, the host, expresses his excitement about the episode, calling it "the single most exciting episode" they have recorded so far.
* They discuss Stoicism, a philosophy that emphasizes self-control, resilience, and living in accordance with nature.
**Key Points**
1. **Ego and Self-Control:**
* Ryan emphasizes the importance of controlling one's ego and avoiding being driven by external validation.
* He explains how ego can manifest in our desire for attention, recognition, and status.
* The Stoics believed that true strength comes from within and is not dependent on external factors.
2. **The Power of Discipline:**
* Ryan discusses the significance of discipline in leading a fulfilling life.
* He highlights that discipline is not about deprivation or punishment but about cultivating self-mastery and achieving long-term goals.
* The Stoics viewed discipline as a means to develop inner strength and resilience.
3. **Living in the Present:**
* Ryan stresses the importance of living in the present moment and focusing on what is within our control.
* He explains that dwelling on the past or worrying about the future can lead to anxiety and unhappiness.
* The Stoics believed that by focusing on the present, we can find contentment and fulfillment.
4. **Stoic Practices:**
* Ryan shares some practical Stoic exercises and practices that listeners can incorporate into their daily lives.
* He suggests engaging in activities like meditation, journaling, and gratitude exercises to cultivate self-awareness and resilience.
* These practices help individuals develop a Stoic mindset and navigate life's challenges more effectively.
5. **The Value of Balance:**
* Ryan emphasizes the importance of finding balance in life, avoiding extremes, and practicing moderation.
* He explains that the Stoics believed in seeking harmony and equilibrium in all aspects of life.
* This includes balancing work and leisure, pursuing personal goals while maintaining relationships, and practicing self-care alongside ambition.
6. **The Legacy of Stoicism:**
* Ryan highlights the enduring relevance of Stoicism and its influence on modern leaders and thinkers.
* He mentions examples of individuals like Queen Elizabeth II, General James Mattis, and others who embody Stoic principles in their lives.
* The Stoic philosophy continues to inspire and guide people in various fields, helping them navigate challenges and achieve personal growth.
**Conclusion**
* Ryan Holiday's insights into Stoicism provide valuable lessons for living a more fulfilling and resilient life.
* The episode encourages listeners to reflect on their own values, cultivate self-discipline, and embrace the present moment.
* By adopting Stoic principles, individuals can overcome challenges, achieve their goals, and live with greater purpose and meaning.
**Navigating Ego and Cultivating Discipline: Insights from Ryan Holiday's Stoic Wisdom**
1. **Ego as a Barrier to Performance:**
- Ego is portrayed as a barrier that obstructs individuals from achieving peak performance and self-awareness.
- It hinders connection, happiness, and contentment.
- Ego takes people away from reality, which is essential for high performance.
2. **The Power of Self-Awareness:**
- Self-awareness is crucial in recognizing ego's presence within oneself and others.
- It allows individuals to direct and guide others through their ego effectively.
3. **The Importance of Discipline:**
- Discipline is highlighted as a vital aspect of achieving high performance.
- Living a disciplined life offers numerous benefits, including a sense of freedom and the ability to avoid the constant need for recognition.
4. **Managing Other People's Ego:**
- Steering clear of individuals with immense egos is advised as it often leads to their downfall.
- Recognizing that ego is a common human trait helps individuals focus on managing their own ego rather than dwelling on others'.
- Exploiting or directing people's ego through their desires and aspirations can be an effective strategy in managing their behavior.
5. **The Significance of Small, Consistent Actions:**
- World-class basics, such as cleaning one's desk and making one's bed, are emphasized as essential building blocks for high performance.
- These seemingly insignificant actions cumulatively contribute to the development of performance.
6. **Balancing Strictness and Kindness:**
- Being strict with oneself while maintaining kindness is a delicate balance that leads to self-improvement.
- Discipline should not be used as a weapon against others but rather as a tool for personal growth.
- Understanding that everyone has different goals and journeys promotes tolerance and compassion towards others.
7. **The Value of Memento Mori:**
- Memento mori, the practice of meditating on one's mortality, is a powerful reminder of the preciousness of time.
- It encourages individuals to make the most of the present moment and avoid wasting time on trivial matters.
- Time is viewed as a finite resource that should be spent wisely and purposefully.
8. **The Significance of Stoic Virtues:**
- Stoic virtues, such as courage, temperance, justice, and wisdom, serve as guiding principles for navigating various life situations.
- These virtues remind individuals of the qualities required to face challenges and make sound decisions.
9. **The Importance of Perseverance:**
- The Stoics exemplified perseverance and resilience in the face of adversity.
- Despite personal tragedies and difficult circumstances, they maintained a sense of duty and responsibility towards others.
- Sticking around and persevering through challenges is considered a heroic and stoic act.
10. **Stoicism as a Practical Philosophy:**
- Stoicism is presented as a practical philosophy that offers tangible takeaways for daily life.
- It emphasizes the importance of journaling and self-reflection as tools for personal growth and self-improvement.
- Stoicism encourages individuals to embrace the present moment and find meaning in their everyday experiences.
# High Performance Podcast Episode Summary:
The episode features a captivating conversation between Jake Humphrey and Ryan Holiday, an acclaimed author known for his philosophical insights in "The Daily Stoic." Ryan emphasizes the significance of having a strong sense of self and a clear set of priorities to navigate life's challenges. He delves into the concept of ego, explaining how to recognize it in others and effectively guide them through it.
Ryan underscores the importance of living a disciplined life, highlighting its benefits and emphasizing that discipline cannot be imposed on others but must be instilled within oneself. He shares insights from his latest book, "Discipline is Destiny," which explores the profound impact of discipline on achieving success and fulfillment.
The discussion also touches upon the challenges of retraining in later life. Ryan's personal experience of successfully retraining as an accountant in his late forties serves as an inspiring example of overcoming self-doubt and embracing new opportunities. He emphasizes the importance of perseverance, hard work, and faith in one's abilities, regardless of age or circumstances.
Furthermore, Ryan reflects on the impact of the High Performance Podcast, highlighting the consistency, hard work, and self-confidence exhibited by the guests. He emphasizes the value of focusing on controllable factors and letting go of those beyond one's control, a key takeaway that resonates with many listeners.
The episode concludes with a reminder to listeners to subscribe, follow, and share the podcast to spread its valuable insights and learnings. The host, Jake Humphrey, expresses gratitude to the production team and encourages listeners to continue chasing world-class basics, remaining humble, curious, and empathetic in their pursuit of high performance.
[00:00.000 -> 00:05.400] Hey, I'm Jake Humphrey, and you're listening to High Performance, our conversation for
[00:05.400 -> 00:11.200] you every single week. This is the podcast that reminds you that it's within. Your ambition,
[00:11.200 -> 00:15.320] your purpose, your story, it's all there. We just help unlock it by turning the lived
[00:15.320 -> 00:20.680] experiences of the planet's highest performers into your life lessons. So allow myself and
[00:20.680 -> 00:26.480] Professor Damian Hughes to speak to the greatest thinkers on the
[00:23.840 -> 00:29.600] planet so they can be your teacher and I
[00:26.480 -> 00:31.280] am so excited about today's episode. Can I
[00:29.600 -> 00:32.960] just apologize for the number of times
[00:31.280 -> 00:36.320] I've mentioned over the last few years
[00:32.960 -> 00:38.080] Stoicism, The Daily Stoic and Ryan
[00:36.320 -> 00:40.240] Holiday. It has become a little bit of an
[00:38.080 -> 00:42.640] obsession with mine. I listen to it in the
[00:40.240 -> 00:44.240] car when taking the kids to school and
[00:42.640 -> 00:46.240] they start rolling their eyes when the
[00:44.240 -> 00:49.160] amazing Daily Stoic podcast episodes start playing, because they hear them every day,
[00:49.160 -> 00:53.040] not because they're not brilliant, because they are brilliant, and they are game changers.
[00:53.040 -> 00:59.040] And before we tell you more about Ryan Holiday, I read his book, The Daily Stoic, every day,
[00:59.040 -> 01:02.480] and I opened up a random page, and this is what it said.
[01:02.480 -> 01:07.760] We don't abandon our pursuits because we despair of ever perfecting them.
[01:07.760 -> 01:10.600] Now that was said thousands of years ago by Epictetus.
[01:10.600 -> 01:12.240] And what Epictetus is reminding us
[01:12.240 -> 01:13.600] is that we're never gonna be perfect.
[01:13.600 -> 01:15.360] If there even is such a thing as perfection
[01:15.360 -> 01:16.920] because we are human,
[01:16.920 -> 01:19.480] our pursuits shouldn't be aimed at perfection,
[01:19.480 -> 01:21.780] they should be aimed at progress.
[01:21.780 -> 01:23.040] And with that in mind,
[01:23.040 -> 01:27.040] welcome to High Performance, Ryan Holiday.
[01:28.000 -> 01:31.240] There's nothing that isn't enhanced by discipline.
[01:31.240 -> 01:34.000] So this idea for the Stokes was that,
[01:34.000 -> 01:38.080] the most powerful you can be is to be under your own power.
[01:38.080 -> 01:40.080] That they said, no one is fit to rule
[01:40.080 -> 01:43.200] who is not first master of themselves.
[01:43.200 -> 01:46.240] As life throws difficult things at us,
[01:46.240 -> 01:48.040] discipline is required.
[01:48.040 -> 01:50.960] And you don't want in that moment of trial
[01:50.960 -> 01:54.080] or adversity or difficulty to find that
[01:54.080 -> 01:56.520] this is a totally unfamiliar space for you.
[01:57.960 -> 01:59.840] When you live below your means,
[01:59.840 -> 02:03.680] when you sort of live and you try to avoid
[02:03.680 -> 02:06.100] superfluous things, when you try to keep ambition
[02:06.100 -> 02:13.680] in check, it does have the benefit of creating a kind of a buffer or a freedom that allows
[02:13.680 -> 02:20.680] you not to always need, need, need to do more and be recognized more.
[02:20.680 -> 02:25.000] Don't think of death as something in the future that you are moving towards.
[02:25.000 -> 02:28.000] Think of death as something that's happening right now.
[02:28.000 -> 02:32.000] It says, you know, the time that passes belongs to death.
[02:32.000 -> 02:36.000] And so the idea that, you know, that time, once it goes by,
[02:36.000 -> 02:40.000] once an hour is wasted, it is dead forever.
[02:40.000 -> 02:44.000] Once a year of your life is dead forever because you spent it being sorry for yourself,
[02:44.000 -> 02:49.680] you spent it drunk, you know, you spent it scared, whatever it was, you know, you never get that
[02:49.680 -> 02:56.160] back. And so how you choose to spend your time is the most important choice that you
[02:56.160 -> 03:00.320] make because time is the most precious resource that there is.
[03:00.320 -> 03:05.560] Oh, it was such a fun episode for me this I annoyed Damien by sort of being a bit of
[03:05.560 -> 03:10.080] a fanboy of Ryan as you'll probably hear in the episode, but this guy is cool, man. And
[03:10.080 -> 03:14.040] we can all learn so much from him. And it's not just because he's been a written books
[03:14.040 -> 03:17.840] that have sold millions of copies, or that he's a prolific writer, or that he hosts his
[03:17.840 -> 03:21.760] own podcast called the daily stoic, or that he has a new book out called discipline is
[03:21.760 -> 03:29.540] destiny, which is what we talk about. But because he is distilling the thinking and the writings and the set of beliefs that
[03:29.540 -> 03:33.920] were used by the Stoics thousands and thousands of years ago.
[03:33.920 -> 03:35.480] And they honestly speak to me.
[03:35.480 -> 03:37.640] They inspire me every single day.
[03:37.640 -> 03:42.240] And I think we can all learn so much from them, particularly in this divisive, separate,
[03:42.240 -> 03:45.000] aggressive, point scoring world
[03:45.000 -> 03:46.000] that we all live in now.
[03:46.000 -> 03:49.160] I think if ever we need stoicism, it is now.
[03:49.160 -> 03:50.360] Let's get on with it.
[03:50.360 -> 03:52.640] Welcome to High Performance.
[03:52.640 -> 03:56.400] Best-selling author, stoic thinker, leader,
[03:56.400 -> 03:59.400] inspirer, and all-round cool guy.
[03:59.400 -> 04:02.460] This is our conversation with Ryan Holiday.
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[05:51.920 -> 05:55.960] Well, Ryan, welcome to High Performance. On a personal note, this is probably the single most exciting episode I've ever recorded. Not to say that I haven't loved the previous
[05:55.960 -> 06:00.920] 150 guests, but I kind of feel like we're brothers because I spend every day with you.
[06:00.920 -> 06:01.920] I love that.
[06:01.920 -> 06:07.920] It's a slightly strange, stalkerish introduction to the podcast,
[06:07.920 -> 06:11.740] but no I'm a firm advocate of Stoicism and what I'd love from this conversation is for
[06:11.740 -> 06:17.180] people who've never heard of Stoicism or haven't looked into it just at least to leave feeling
[06:17.180 -> 06:24.080] inquisitive. So let me ask you first of all, if a Stoic was answering this question many,
[06:24.080 -> 06:26.720] many years ago and I said to them, what is high performance?
[06:26.720 -> 06:28.600] What would Epictetus or Seneca,
[06:28.600 -> 06:30.480] how would they answer that question?
[06:30.480 -> 06:32.040] Yeah, it's a great question.
[06:32.040 -> 06:33.360] And I think it's worth pointing out
[06:33.360 -> 06:35.600] that they wouldn't have been, you know,
[06:35.600 -> 06:38.920] sort of sitting in some academic setting,
[06:38.920 -> 06:42.080] pondering what high performance looked like, right?
[06:42.080 -> 06:46.320] The Stoics were in the arena, literally and figuratively,
[06:46.320 -> 06:52.320] right? Seneca is probably the greatest playwright of his generation, in addition to being a
[06:52.320 -> 06:57.280] philosopher, in addition to being a powerful politician. Marcus Aurelius is the emperor of
[06:57.280 -> 07:06.640] Rome, who also trains in wrestling and boxing and a number of different sports. So the Stoics were sort of actively engaged in a
[07:06.640 -> 07:12.720] number of different pursuits, most of which at the highest of levels. They don't really give us
[07:13.360 -> 07:18.240] sort of an absolute definition where they go, look, this is what high performance looks like.
[07:18.240 -> 07:23.760] But they do talk a lot about greatness and they do talk a lot about sort of realizing one's
[07:23.760 -> 07:27.500] potential. And I suspect their answer would have something to do with that.
[07:27.500 -> 07:31.000] It certainly wouldn't say like high performance is winning,
[07:31.000 -> 07:35.000] high performance is setting this record or, you know, accomplishing that.
[07:35.000 -> 07:38.500] I don't think it would be rooted in an external accomplishment at all
[07:38.500 -> 07:41.500] because to the Stokes it was about focusing on what you control.
[07:41.500 -> 07:45.360] So I suspect it would be something to do with
[07:45.360 -> 07:50.360] what one is capable of doing when all of your facilities
[07:50.480 -> 07:52.680] and all of your faculties, all of your effort,
[07:52.680 -> 07:57.240] all of your focus is directed purely at the task at hand
[07:57.240 -> 08:00.000] and you're giving everything that you have to it.
[08:00.000 -> 08:02.720] I use the word stillness when I talk about the Stoics
[08:02.720 -> 08:05.820] as it's a word they frequently would draw on.
[08:05.820 -> 08:08.940] I think it's some form of that kind of flow state
[08:08.940 -> 08:10.960] where everything else falls away.
[08:10.960 -> 08:12.180] The only thing that matters,
[08:12.180 -> 08:13.880] the only thing that's there
[08:13.880 -> 08:16.520] is the moment or the task in front of you.
[08:16.520 -> 08:17.400] And how similar is that
[08:17.400 -> 08:19.940] to your definition of high performance?
[08:19.940 -> 08:21.240] I mean, it's very similar.
[08:21.240 -> 08:26.040] I mean, that's the place I try to get to when I do my work.
[08:26.040 -> 08:28.320] I mean, it's funny, I'm talking to you today.
[08:28.320 -> 08:33.280] I don't know when this comes out, but the book is out today
[08:33.280 -> 08:37.740] and I was thinking not about, okay, how is it doing?
[08:37.740 -> 08:38.580] How are the sales?
[08:38.580 -> 08:41.640] But I spent this morning, as I spend every morning
[08:41.640 -> 08:44.040] with a large uninterrupted block
[08:44.040 -> 08:46.460] where I was working on the next thing,
[08:46.460 -> 08:49.680] where I was focused on what I control,
[08:49.680 -> 08:52.120] which is the work itself.
[08:52.120 -> 08:55.840] And I try to do my best to not think about
[08:55.840 -> 08:58.000] what other people think,
[08:58.000 -> 09:01.320] how something is being received or not received,
[09:01.320 -> 09:02.560] what the numbers are.
[09:02.560 -> 09:05.680] I try to focus as much as I can on, you
[09:05.680 -> 09:07.680] know, doing the thing.
[09:07.680 -> 09:12.960] So for people that are new or haven't heard of Stoicism before then, Ryan, what would
[09:12.960 -> 09:18.560] you define as the most helpful tip you could share that they could try and adopt today?
[09:18.560 -> 09:26.800] Well, the chief task of life, Epictetus says, he's a Greek slave who becomes one of the great Stoke philosophers.
[09:26.800 -> 09:29.720] He says, the chief task in life is separating things
[09:29.720 -> 09:32.160] into two buckets, that which is up to us
[09:32.160 -> 09:33.960] and that which is not up to us.
[09:33.960 -> 09:37.100] And this decision to distinguish and then to focus
[09:37.100 -> 09:40.220] on the stuff that is in our control
[09:40.220 -> 09:42.680] is probably the biggest breakthrough you can make.
[09:42.680 -> 09:48.740] I know it seems very basic, but if you watch what most people do,
[09:48.740 -> 09:53.180] they spend an inordinate amount of time focusing,
[09:53.180 -> 09:57.800] spending energy in areas where it is impossible
[09:57.800 -> 09:59.940] to make a difference, right?
[09:59.940 -> 10:02.980] Where they are regretting the past,
[10:02.980 -> 10:05.300] worrying about the future,
[10:05.300 -> 10:08.300] questioning whether something is fair or unfair,
[10:08.300 -> 10:10.160] whether they're lucky or unlucky.
[10:10.160 -> 10:11.880] And all of this is taking away
[10:11.880 -> 10:14.260] from the thing in front of them, the task at hand.
[10:14.260 -> 10:17.240] And so I think that there's a reason the Stoics start there.
[10:17.240 -> 10:18.680] It's simple and straightforward.
[10:18.680 -> 10:20.600] That doesn't mean that it's easy,
[10:20.600 -> 10:22.580] but if we can start with what they called
[10:22.580 -> 10:24.640] the dichotomy of control,
[10:24.640 -> 10:27.700] I think we have a big head start on most people love that
[10:27.700 -> 10:31.900] I want to talk to you about discipline because I read discipline is destiny
[10:32.440 -> 10:35.100] And it was rather apt because I was on holiday on a Greek island
[10:35.100 -> 10:40.120] And so I was looking out at the Blue Sea thinking this very view the Stoics would have had all those years ago
[10:41.080 -> 10:46.280] Why is discipline such an important element when it comes to Stoicism and when
[10:46.280 -> 10:48.920] it comes to us making the very best of our lives?
[10:48.920 -> 10:54.240] Well, the Stoics break the philosophy down into four key virtues. The first of which
[10:54.240 -> 10:59.320] is courage, the next is self-discipline or temperance, and which is then followed by
[10:59.320 -> 11:04.040] justice and wisdom. So, it's one of the big four, that's what I'm writing about now. But
[11:04.040 -> 11:11.440] I think you could argue that, first off, there's nothing impressive, admirable, difficult, worth doing that does not
[11:11.440 -> 11:17.120] require discipline. And then I would argue on top of that, there's nothing that isn't enhanced by
[11:17.120 -> 11:23.760] discipline. So this idea for the Stokes was that, you know, the most powerful you can be is to be
[11:23.760 -> 11:25.120] under your own power.
[11:25.120 -> 11:29.360] They said no one is fit to rule who is not first master of themselves.
[11:29.360 -> 11:36.180] So I think whether we're talking about athletic performance or we're talking about entrepreneurial
[11:36.180 -> 11:43.080] success or we're talking about the power of government or office, discipline is required
[11:43.080 -> 11:45.480] to be successful in those things.
[11:45.480 -> 11:50.600] But then the success in that field does not exempt one from discipline.
[11:50.600 -> 11:56.280] In fact, it makes self-discipline even more important, right?
[11:56.280 -> 11:59.300] Suddenly other people can't tell you what to do.
[11:59.300 -> 12:04.640] Suddenly there are fewer limitations on you being imposed on you and you have to be in
[12:04.640 -> 12:05.820] charge of yourself
[12:05.820 -> 12:09.860] and that that's I think a really difficult thing to do. And that's a
[12:09.860 -> 12:15.960] compelling answer Ryan so the $64,000 question then is how do we do it? How do
[12:15.960 -> 12:21.660] we master ourselves? Yeah look I think I try to distinguish between the different
[12:21.660 -> 12:24.620] types of discipline I think there's first a kind of a physical discipline
[12:24.620 -> 12:25.280] when do you wake up you know how do you organize your environments right what do I try to distinguish between the different types of discipline. I think there's first a kind of a physical discipline.
[12:25.280 -> 12:26.520] When do you wake up?
[12:26.520 -> 12:29.480] You know, how do you organize your environments, right?
[12:29.480 -> 12:30.300] What do you eat?
[12:30.300 -> 12:31.200] What do you not eat?
[12:31.200 -> 12:33.520] What's your physical practice, right?
[12:33.520 -> 12:36.000] So I think physical discipline is really, really important.
[12:36.000 -> 12:39.120] And I would argue that from the physical discipline,
[12:39.120 -> 12:42.560] we can build the muscle of discipline,
[12:42.560 -> 12:47.040] which then we apply to the harder domain of our
[12:47.040 -> 12:54.440] emotions, right? You can be the most, you know, physically controlled person in the
[12:54.440 -> 13:01.320] world as Tiger Woods was and your emotional spiritual chaos and anarchy
[13:01.320 -> 13:07.160] can spill over and undermine that. But I do think that the more we practice discipline,
[13:07.160 -> 13:09.320] you know, from waking up early,
[13:09.320 -> 13:11.600] yesterday I did my daily practice
[13:11.600 -> 13:13.440] of getting in a cold plunge.
[13:13.440 -> 13:18.440] I'm building up the ability to be in charge of myself, right?
[13:19.360 -> 13:21.320] And that, I think this is something we practice.
[13:21.320 -> 13:23.600] It's not something that's doled out at birth.
[13:23.600 -> 13:24.840] It's a practice.
[13:24.840 -> 13:28.480] It's a muscle that we cultivate. And what I try to talk about
[13:28.480 -> 13:32.600] in the book are some sort of tried and true practices from people that we
[13:32.600 -> 13:36.220] admire that we can hopefully try to apply in our own lives.
[13:36.220 -> 13:43.720] And for people that are still questioning whether discipline really is the answer, I love it when you talk about discipline now and freedom later.
[13:43.720 -> 13:50.940] What's the phrase? Labour passes quickly but the fruits of the labor endures. I think that is so powerful for people to hear
[13:51.040 -> 13:57.840] Yeah, I think we sometimes think that being ill disciplined or not so hard on ourselves is easier, right?
[13:57.840 -> 14:03.520] I don't want to stick to a strict diet. I don't want to have this rigorous routine. I don't want to work out
[14:03.520 -> 14:05.160] I don't want to do this stuff,. I don't want to work out. I don't want to do this stuff."
[14:05.160 -> 14:08.120] But in the short term, perhaps that's easier.
[14:08.120 -> 14:10.080] But then, you know, on the larger level,
[14:10.080 -> 14:11.560] not living the life that you want,
[14:11.560 -> 14:13.240] not having the things that you want,
[14:13.240 -> 14:15.000] sort of wasting, you know,
[14:15.000 -> 14:18.080] potential wasting your one go around on this planet,
[14:18.080 -> 14:20.200] that that's all very, very painful.
[14:20.200 -> 14:22.600] But it's also not pleasant to look at the mirror
[14:22.600 -> 14:23.680] and not like what you see.
[14:23.680 -> 14:25.840] It's also not pleasant to get out of breath and not like what you see. It's also not pleasant to
[14:31.920 -> 14:39.200] get out of breath as you walk up a flight of stairs, right? As life throws difficult things at us, discipline is required. And you don't want in that moment of trial or adversity or difficulty
[14:39.760 -> 14:51.880] to find that this is a totally unfamiliar space for you. When I'm struggling with a project, I'm able to draw on a reservoir of discipline, a set of experiences that
[14:51.880 -> 14:55.800] let me go, I've been through stuff like this before, I just have to keep
[14:55.800 -> 15:00.080] going. It's not supposed to be fun, right? It's not supposed to be easy, but if I
[15:00.080 -> 15:11.440] keep going, eventually I'll get where I want to go. The cultivation of discipline is immensely valuable and I would argue that the short-term pleasures of not
[15:11.440 -> 15:18.080] being disciplined ultimately result in sort of pains and regrets and trouble
[15:18.080 -> 15:22.520] later. But they also spoke one of the other virtues you described Brian was
[15:22.520 -> 15:25.280] temperance, so have nothing in excess.
[15:25.280 -> 15:28.080] Would you explain to us why that's so important?
[15:28.080 -> 15:33.360] Well you know that the rival philosophical school to the Stoics is the Epicureans and
[15:33.360 -> 15:39.200] both Epicureanism and Stoicism don't mean in the English language what they meant you know
[15:39.200 -> 15:50.820] back 2,000 years ago but the Epicureans are sort of seen as these like pleasure-loving hedonists, right? But in fact, temperance was a virtue to them too. Epicurus talks
[15:50.820 -> 15:56.320] about how, look, drinking might be great, but if it gives you a terrible hangover
[15:56.320 -> 16:02.800] the next morning, that pleasure and pain, you know, balance each other out.
[16:02.800 -> 16:05.600] And so for the Stokes and for the Epicureans,
[16:05.600 -> 16:10.240] it wasn't an abstinence from all things enjoyable.
[16:10.240 -> 16:14.800] It was about finding temperance or balance, moderation,
[16:14.800 -> 16:19.360] that allows us to enjoy things without taking them too far.
[16:19.360 -> 16:21.880] And nowhere actually is this more important
[16:21.880 -> 16:23.680] than discipline itself, right?
[16:23.680 -> 16:29.920] If you are so driven, so committed, I was just talking to someone the other day about a
[16:29.920 -> 16:36.000] marathon runner who at about mile 8, you know, broke their leg and then the rest
[16:36.000 -> 16:41.400] of the marathon kept going and this can feel like, you know, some heroic feat of
[16:41.400 -> 16:45.440] discipline. I think the Stokes would say that's insane, right?
[16:45.440 -> 16:48.160] Like if you were fleeing a murderer,
[16:48.160 -> 16:51.260] of course run as many miles as you can on a broken leg,
[16:51.260 -> 16:55.040] but to risk serious damage to your body
[16:55.040 -> 16:57.760] because you don't have the discipline to say,
[16:57.760 -> 17:01.840] I am in sheer agony, nothing is worth continuing
[17:01.840 -> 17:04.840] if I'm gonna lose the use of my leg for months and months
[17:04.840 -> 17:05.220] as a result of what I'm going to lose the use of my leg for months and months as a result
[17:05.220 -> 17:11.740] of what I'm doing. You know, you have become undisciplined about discipline and that's
[17:11.740 -> 17:17.520] an issue for a lot of driven people. We go too far and the result is a divorce. The result
[17:17.520 -> 17:23.040] is your children don't recognize you. You know, the result is you look back on your
[17:23.040 -> 17:27.840] life and you go, why did I think these things mattered so much?
[17:27.840 -> 17:31.080] The challenge is how we get out of that mindset though,
[17:31.080 -> 17:31.920] isn't it?
[17:31.920 -> 17:32.740] Particularly in this modern world.
[17:32.740 -> 17:35.760] You know, I think about you talking about, you know,
[17:35.760 -> 17:38.280] having discipline, discipline now, freedom later.
[17:38.280 -> 17:39.840] We live in a world that tells us have what you want
[17:39.840 -> 17:40.680] when you want it.
[17:40.680 -> 17:42.560] We live in a world where everyone's an entrepreneur,
[17:42.560 -> 17:48.480] everyone's a self-starter, everyone's got a nice car, Everyone's showing you the showroom of their life on Instagram.
[17:48.480 -> 17:53.480] How can a stoic mindset help us to deal with that external pressure?
[17:53.480 -> 17:55.320] Well, one of my favorite quotes from Seneca,
[17:55.320 -> 18:01.520] he defines tranquility as a sense of the path that you're on
[18:01.520 -> 18:07.320] and not being distracted by the paths which crisscross yours,
[18:07.320 -> 18:12.920] particularly those of the people who are hopelessly lost, right? And so when you
[18:12.920 -> 18:17.320] have a strong sense of who you are and what you're trying to do, first off it
[18:17.320 -> 18:21.080] makes it easier to be disciplined, right? If you're saying, hey I'm training for
[18:21.080 -> 18:27.640] you know the Olympics and your friends are out partying and whatever, you know, hey,
[18:27.640 -> 18:29.080] that's not what's valuable to me.
[18:29.080 -> 18:31.800] What's valuable to me is this goal that I've set.
[18:31.800 -> 18:39.520] But also, if your priorities are your family and you never see them because you're so committed
[18:39.520 -> 18:47.240] to winning and improving your times, you may end up getting that gold medal at a very expensive cost.
[18:47.240 -> 18:52.920] And so I think having a kind of a North Star, a set of values, a set of priorities is really,
[18:52.920 -> 19:00.400] really key because it gives us something to focus on, something to feel secure in that
[19:00.400 -> 19:04.400] doesn't, you know, if you don't know what you want, you end up defaulting into what
[19:04.400 -> 19:05.600] everyone else wants. Or if you don't know what you want, you end up defaulting into what everyone else wants.
[19:05.600 -> 19:07.200] Or if you don't know what you should be doing,
[19:07.200 -> 19:09.000] you end up doing what everyone else is doing.
[19:09.000 -> 19:12.240] And that can lead you dangerously, dangerously astray.
[19:12.240 -> 19:14.680] So what were the Stoics' values then?
[19:14.680 -> 19:15.600] I know you explained,
[19:15.600 -> 19:18.320] and what's the difference between them and the virtues?
[19:18.320 -> 19:21.520] The virtues are the sort of touchstones of goodness,
[19:21.520 -> 19:22.400] Marx really says,
[19:22.400 -> 19:25.320] the sort of things you build a life
[19:25.320 -> 19:31.560] around and towards. But I think each of us has to have a life that we are trying to lead
[19:31.560 -> 19:37.560] and do. For me, I think about, like, I want to be great at writing, which is my gift or
[19:37.560 -> 19:45.680] calling, but I also want to be a good husband and I want to be a good spouse and these three values or these three
[19:46.560 -> 19:53.120] independent goals are also related and interdependent on each other and it would be
[19:53.120 -> 19:59.360] easier to pursue one at the expense of the others but the result is you know if we're talking about
[19:59.360 -> 20:07.220] balance the result is a very unbalanced life. And so understanding how our conflicting
[20:07.220 -> 20:10.540] or interrelated goals, you know, connect with each other,
[20:10.540 -> 20:12.880] I do think is really, really important.
[20:12.880 -> 20:14.300] And what about for people listening to this,
[20:14.300 -> 20:16.880] who, for whom the goal is the challenge,
[20:16.880 -> 20:20.320] that they don't feel they found their calling?
[20:20.320 -> 20:23.600] There's some wonderful thoughts from the Stoics
[20:23.600 -> 20:25.600] about following your heart, right?
[20:25.600 -> 20:31.200] Yeah, well, my mentor, the great Robert Greene, talks about your life's task.
[20:31.200 -> 20:35.000] And he says, you know, it's not your passion, but it's finding your life's task.
[20:35.000 -> 20:41.500] Like, what is the unique thing that you are able to do that perhaps no one can do the way that you can do it?
[20:41.500 -> 20:44.400] And it's not easy to identify this thing.
[20:44.400 -> 20:45.520] And in fact, there might be many things that you can do it. And it's not easy to identify this thing. And in fact, there
[20:45.520 -> 20:48.640] might be many things that you are good at, there might be many things that you could
[20:48.640 -> 20:54.020] be well compensated in, but it's kind of finding that thing that you are meant to do. He says
[20:54.020 -> 20:58.280] often we have to go back to our childhood before, you know, there were all these, you
[20:58.280 -> 21:04.280] know, conflicting messages or distracting things that have taken us away from that thing.
[21:04.280 -> 21:06.160] But, you know, what's the thing that you would do
[21:06.160 -> 21:07.700] even if they didn't pay you for it?
[21:07.700 -> 21:12.120] What's the thing that if you didn't do, wouldn't get done?
[21:12.120 -> 21:14.440] These are questions I kind of like to ask myself
[21:14.440 -> 21:17.640] and they help sort of guide you back
[21:17.640 -> 21:19.960] towards whatever that thing is.
[21:19.960 -> 21:22.320] So what kind of questions would the Stoics
[21:22.320 -> 21:26.640] have proposed asking them to discover the North Star?
[21:26.640 -> 21:30.660] Well, look, the Stoics lived in a much more hierarchical,
[21:30.660 -> 21:32.680] stratified society, right?
[21:32.680 -> 21:33.920] So I'll give you an example.
[21:33.920 -> 21:36.600] Marcus Aurelius does not want to be emperor.
[21:36.600 -> 21:39.180] And it's not even like a Prince Charles situation
[21:39.180 -> 21:41.360] where his parents are royals, right?
[21:41.360 -> 21:44.440] Marcus Aurelius is actually chosen as a young man.
[21:44.440 -> 21:45.600] He's adopted by the
[21:45.600 -> 21:51.920] emperor and then raised for the throne. I think if you could have asked Marcus Aurelius
[21:51.920 -> 21:57.760] what he wanted to do, he probably would have said, oh, I want to be a philosopher. But
[21:57.760 -> 22:07.780] then life intervenes and he finds himself in this position of great power and responsibility. And yet, right, he doesn't see this as a conflict
[22:07.780 -> 22:10.620] with the philosophy, but an opportunity.
[22:10.620 -> 22:12.300] He writes in Meditations, he says,
[22:12.300 -> 22:15.060] you know what, actually no role is so well suited
[22:15.060 -> 22:17.860] to philosophy as the one that you're in right now.
[22:17.860 -> 22:21.920] He realizes, oh, instead of thinking about these things
[22:21.920 -> 22:30.640] in the abstract, thinking about them theoretically, teaching young students about them, I have to be a philosopher king. I have to actually
[22:30.640 -> 22:35.800] put these ideas into practice at the highest level. And so, I think there's our life's
[22:35.800 -> 22:42.520] task and then of course there are the events of life itself and these things kind of intersect
[22:42.520 -> 22:48.500] in a way that, you know, hopefully bring us to a moment of destiny or our unique Colin in your book
[22:48.500 -> 22:52.760] You you have a lot of references to our late Queen Queen Elizabeth the second
[22:53.280 -> 22:57.760] Why did you choose her as such an important reference point? Yeah, it's funny
[22:57.880 -> 22:58.880] I'm not really funny
[22:58.880 -> 23:01.240] but I wrote quite a bit about her and then
[23:01.600 -> 23:05.280] It all in the present tense as she was still alive and then as the books
[23:05.280 -> 23:12.400] go into publication she died. I also wrote quite a bit about Tom Brady who retired and unretired
[23:12.400 -> 23:17.680] in the process of writing the book. So you know the books are often sort of a moment in time
[23:17.680 -> 23:22.000] that when the reader finally gets them things can be so radically different but what I think's so
[23:22.000 -> 23:30.480] fascinating about someone like Queen Elizabeth and your constitutional monarchy is that although they have this position of what you might think
[23:30.480 -> 23:36.000] is great power, in fact, the list of what they can't do is so much longer than the list of what
[23:36.000 -> 23:42.720] they can do. And I think she's a wonder or was a wonderful and inspiring example of self-discipline
[23:42.720 -> 23:46.280] as a kind of restraint. You know, she, before COVID, right,
[23:46.280 -> 23:49.640] she was a believer in protocol, right, or protocols.
[23:49.640 -> 23:50.500] Like, what are the rules?
[23:50.500 -> 23:51.480] What are the obligations?
[23:51.480 -> 23:53.680] What are the duties of my position?
[23:53.680 -> 23:56.840] And how do I observe those to the best of my ability,
[23:56.840 -> 23:59.480] even when that's unpleasant, even when that's painful,
[23:59.480 -> 24:02.280] even when there is every part of me
[24:02.280 -> 24:04.080] that disagrees with this policy,
[24:04.080 -> 24:05.760] that has an opinion on this policy.
[24:05.760 -> 24:10.500] I mean, imagine having access to essentially every single
[24:11.240 -> 24:12.800] decision and
[24:12.800 -> 24:18.680] bit of information in a government over the course of 70 years that you are
[24:19.600 -> 24:24.440] simultaneously unable to do even a single thing about, right? Every decision is made in your name,
[24:24.600 -> 24:28.660] but you are not allowed to participate in said decision.
[24:28.660 -> 24:30.460] And when you really think about
[24:30.460 -> 24:32.880] what that would demand of a person,
[24:32.880 -> 24:35.400] it would demand an incredible amount of restraint,
[24:35.400 -> 24:37.460] an incredible amount of poise.
[24:37.460 -> 24:40.180] And so I don't want people to think that self-discipline
[24:40.180 -> 24:42.900] is just, you know, hey, I can run a marathon
[24:42.900 -> 24:44.100] on a broken leg.
[24:44.100 -> 24:46.480] It's also, I can deal a marathon on a broken leg. It's also I can
[24:46.480 -> 24:51.800] deal with the media criticizing me. I can deal with the media saying things that
[24:51.800 -> 24:55.720] are totally incorrect about me. I can deal with being misunderstood. I can deal
[24:55.720 -> 25:01.400] with being unappreciated. I can deal with all of this and put up with it because
[25:01.400 -> 25:03.520] that's what my job is.
[25:03.520 -> 25:05.740] So beyond the Queen then Ryan,
[25:05.740 -> 25:10.100] is there any other examples of modern day leaders
[25:10.100 -> 25:13.380] that you think embody the Stoics messages?
[25:13.380 -> 25:16.560] Well, I generally try not to talk about modern leaders
[25:16.560 -> 25:18.480] as I've learned in my books.
[25:18.480 -> 25:19.800] First off, because they can be sort of
[25:19.800 -> 25:21.780] politically polarizing, but second,
[25:21.780 -> 25:23.260] you know, you never know what they're gonna do.
[25:23.260 -> 25:28.280] I talk about Tom Brady and then suddenly he retires and unretires and then is breaking
[25:28.280 -> 25:32.160] tablets on the sidelines because the game is not going well, right?
[25:32.160 -> 25:36.320] So one of the benefits of writing about history is that it's a little cleaner.
[25:36.320 -> 25:42.240] I admire people, I guess when I'm talking about a leader who is disciplined, I think
[25:42.240 -> 25:45.080] I'm talking about the kind of leader
[25:45.080 -> 25:47.160] who one sees themselves as a servant
[25:47.160 -> 25:51.180] as opposed to someone who is kind of exempt from the rules.
[25:51.180 -> 25:53.920] But I'm also trying to talk about leaders
[25:53.920 -> 25:57.160] who don't make this, and I'm thinking about this more
[25:57.160 -> 25:58.400] in the justice book that I'm writing,
[25:58.400 -> 26:02.040] but we kind of make this distinction these days
[26:02.040 -> 26:05.400] between like what's allowed and what's legal, right?
[26:05.400 -> 26:09.040] To me, when you look at someone like Queen Elizabeth, when you look at great leaders,
[26:09.040 -> 26:12.360] what's legal is not what they care about. What they care about is their own sort of
[26:12.360 -> 26:17.520] personal code of conduct. They care about what they think the right thing is. And this
[26:17.520 -> 26:26.080] kind of restraint or self-control or self-imposed code of ethics is all too rare these days. There's a
[26:26.080 -> 26:31.400] four-star general here in America, he was briefly the Secretary of Defense, his
[26:31.400 -> 26:36.080] name is General James Mattis, you know he talks about coming up with your flat-ass
[26:36.080 -> 26:41.040] rules and sticking to them. I think he's done a remarkably good job of that but I
[26:41.040 -> 26:44.440] would say unfortunately leaders like that tend to be more the exception than
[26:44.440 -> 26:48.160] the rule. So do you think some of this is because some of these
[26:48.160 -> 26:54.360] virtues that you're describing are almost boring in nature like they're not
[26:54.360 -> 26:58.840] glamorous, they're not spectacular, they don't go on the headlines, they're just
[26:58.840 -> 27:07.600] quietly effective? Sure yeah they're a little old-fashioned, they can feel at times to be contrary to one's
[27:07.600 -> 27:08.600] self-interest.
[27:08.600 -> 27:13.480] So, again, to go to the Queen, she never gives an on-the-record interview in 70 years, right?
[27:13.480 -> 27:17.400] Now, she happens to be in the unique position of being Queen, so she's always famous, even
[27:17.400 -> 27:21.680] though she's not, you know, sort of regularly seeking out publicity in that sense.
[27:21.680 -> 27:26.800] But you and I in that position say, hey, I'm not going to chase media attention.
[27:26.800 -> 27:28.520] I'm just going to do the work.
[27:28.520 -> 27:31.280] Well, the resulting consequence of that might be you do really
[27:31.280 -> 27:33.120] good work, but nobody knows about it, right?
[27:33.120 -> 27:35.680] And so the more disciplined you are,
[27:35.680 -> 27:38.240] the less you're driven by ego,
[27:38.240 -> 27:40.880] the less you need credit or attention.
[27:40.880 -> 27:44.720] The consequence of that is that you might not be
[27:44.720 -> 27:45.640] as well-known and I think
[27:45.640 -> 27:50.440] it's worth pointing out that you know sort of most truly admirable truly
[27:50.440 -> 27:55.240] great truly successful people are people that we've never heard of and we haven't
[27:55.240 -> 28:00.680] heard of them by choice. And that plays into the ego being the enemy right which
[28:00.680 -> 28:06.240] is a previous book of yours. Would you mind just sharing for 30
[28:06.240 -> 28:10.680] seconds with listeners to this podcast who haven't read the book why is ego the
[28:10.680 -> 28:15.720] enemy? Well look, ego is not the enemy of getting attention or you know being
[28:15.720 -> 28:21.880] famous or you know being the the center of you know a media narrative or
[28:21.880 -> 28:27.800] whatever. Obviously it's quite good for that. But if you're trying to do good work,
[28:27.800 -> 28:31.920] if you're trying to do things that connect with people,
[28:31.920 -> 28:36.060] the less it's about you and the more it's about them
[28:36.060 -> 28:38.400] and the work, the better it will be.
[28:38.400 -> 28:41.000] So I kind of see Ego as this kind of film,
[28:41.000 -> 28:44.920] that this barrier that gets between us
[28:44.920 -> 28:46.840] and what we're trying to do, what we need
[28:46.840 -> 28:52.680] to do. It also I think gets in between us and you know self-awareness, it gets in between
[28:52.680 -> 28:59.280] us and connection and happiness and contentment and all these things but I see ego as something
[28:59.280 -> 29:08.280] that takes us away from reality and reality is the place where we are we need to be to be at peak
[29:08.280 -> 29:13.640] performance. I was thinking about you and your podcast the Daily Stoic which
[29:13.640 -> 29:17.440] before we started recording I explained to you that my poor children Florence
[29:17.440 -> 29:20.880] and Sebastian are subjected every day before school to an episode of the Daily
[29:20.880 -> 29:24.680] Stoic on the on the school run followed by an uplifting song and the final words
[29:24.680 -> 29:27.460] from us are be the light in the room, which is our kind of
[29:27.460 -> 29:33.140] final parting message. That's so lovely. But the reason why I was I was thinking deeply
[29:33.140 -> 29:35.960] about this interview is because I knew that we were meeting but I also saw a
[29:35.960 -> 29:39.080] really nice quote which I think played perfectly into this because I was
[29:39.080 -> 29:47.560] thinking why did I stumble across Ryan Holiday and Stoicism on my podcasts and I'm obsessed with it and I love it
[29:47.560 -> 29:51.020] And I realize it's not because of and I don't want this to sound rude Ryan
[29:51.020 -> 29:55.340] It's not because of how I feel about you or how I feel about your podcast
[29:55.720 -> 29:58.920] It's how your podcast makes me feel about myself
[29:59.640 -> 30:05.760] And I think that is a really interesting thing for us to explore. You know, and again, it comes back to ego.
[30:05.760 -> 30:12.400] We need to realise that how we make other people feel is far more important than how they feel about us.
[30:12.400 -> 30:15.280] No, first off, I'm honoured to hear that.
[30:15.280 -> 30:18.640] And I do think that's something that I think about.
[30:18.640 -> 30:26.000] Like, look, if you're making music or you're making a product or you know you are running for office
[30:26.000 -> 30:32.000] whatever it is that you do it depends on you delivering value for other people
[30:32.000 -> 30:36.000] enough value that they pay for it enough value that they vote for you enough value
[30:36.000 -> 30:41.000] that they talk to other people about it and so ultimately the lens to do that is
[30:41.000 -> 30:48.160] not going to be about ego or self-aggrandizement. It's going to be primarily
[30:48.160 -> 30:54.000] about what do they need, what do they want, what are you doing for them. I remember I was talking
[30:54.000 -> 30:58.720] to my editor once, I was talking to her about a book I was writing and I was like, you know,
[30:58.720 -> 31:05.600] I want it to be like this, I want it to be like that. And she said, you know, it's not what a book is, it's what a book does, right?
[31:05.600 -> 31:08.640] It's what it does for someone else, right?
[31:08.640 -> 31:13.640] And so obviously writing is fulfilling for me
[31:14.760 -> 31:18.320] and I'm writing to myself as much as anything,
[31:18.320 -> 31:20.720] just like all art has to start, you know,
[31:20.720 -> 31:22.520] specific to become general,
[31:22.520 -> 31:27.960] but I am trying to bring something that I
[31:27.960 -> 31:35.600] think will be valuable to other people. I'm not trying to preach or celebrate
[31:35.600 -> 31:40.040] myself and, you know, in the vast majority of my books, with the exception of
[31:40.040 -> 31:47.960] usually the afterword, the word I does not appear anywhere in the books. I'm not
[31:47.960 -> 31:52.520] talking about my perspective, I'm talking about what other people have said for the
[31:52.520 -> 31:53.520] most part.
[31:53.520 -> 32:00.480] And do you ever have to catch yourself as your recognition and fame grows? Does your
[32:00.480 -> 32:02.480] ego grow at the same rate? I assume not.
[32:02.480 -> 32:07.920] I mean look, I think ego is always there and probably the most egotistical thing
[32:07.920 -> 32:15.040] you could do would be to proclaim that you don't have an ego, right? But I do try to set up systems
[32:15.040 -> 32:22.560] or structures that, like I was saying, my routine today was not, hey, I'm going to be furiously
[32:22.560 -> 32:26.040] refreshing Amazon to see what the rank is. It was, I'm going to be furiously refreshing Amazon to see what the rank is. It was I'm
[32:26.040 -> 32:32.480] going to be working because the work is humbling and the work is quite frankly kicking my ass.
[32:32.480 -> 32:39.280] And the more I stay in that, the less it sort of goes to my head.
[32:39.280 -> 32:49.140] One of the things I talk about in this book about discipline is you know when you live below your means when you you know sort of live and you try to avoid superfluous things when you
[32:49.140 -> 32:54.460] try to keep ambition in check it does have the benefit of creating a kind of a
[32:54.460 -> 33:01.780] buffer or a freedom that allows you not to always need need need to do more and
[33:01.780 -> 33:11.140] and be recognized more. Can you share with us some of the best tips that you've seen in how we can manage other people's ego? And I say
[33:11.140 -> 33:16.060] this with respect to what's in our control and what's not within it, but
[33:16.060 -> 33:19.620] there'll be lots of our listeners thinking about, right, okay, I'm
[33:19.620 -> 33:23.880] interested in this stuff, but how can I get others to maybe buy into it
[33:23.880 -> 33:25.200] unconsciously?
[33:25.200 -> 33:29.200] Yeah, I mean I have a bunch of thoughts there. The number one thing is, you know, if you see
[33:29.200 -> 33:35.400] you know, it's an athlete, it's a leader, it's a boss, a politician with, you know,
[33:35.400 -> 33:41.540] immense ego, the first advice is sort of steer clear. This will inevitably be the
[33:41.540 -> 33:45.480] end of them. Cyril Connolly famously said that ego sucks us down
[33:45.480 -> 33:47.560] like the law of gravity, right?
[33:47.560 -> 33:51.640] And so I'm, first off, I begin by being just quite wary
[33:51.640 -> 33:53.960] of folks like that.
[33:53.960 -> 33:57.920] Second, I think it's worth pointing out that
[33:57.920 -> 34:00.920] while it's really easy to spot other people's ego,
[34:00.920 -> 34:04.840] in some ways, this is a distraction from our own ego,
[34:04.840 -> 34:05.520] right? We see how damaging ego is in some ways this is a distraction from our own ego.
[34:05.520 -> 34:11.880] We see how damaging ego is in other people, we're very much less aware where we're in
[34:11.880 -> 34:13.400] the sway of our own ego.
[34:13.400 -> 34:16.800] So I think that's worth pointing out.
[34:16.800 -> 34:22.120] But I think one of the most effective tools for dealing with ego is also one of the most
[34:22.120 -> 34:25.120] compelling arguments for why you have to
[34:25.120 -> 34:30.760] be so careful about it. The way you get egotistical people to do things is not
[34:30.760 -> 34:38.600] by challenging them but by exploiting or directing them through this ego. The way
[34:38.600 -> 34:41.640] you get an egotistical person to do something is to convince them that it
[34:41.640 -> 34:48.720] was their idea, right? Trump famously profoundly egotistical, we can also stipulate quite stupid, when he would
[34:48.720 -> 34:54.240] get the briefing each day from his advisors, I mean first off, you know the presidential
[34:54.240 -> 34:58.240] briefing is like the queen's box, it's pages and pages and pages.
[34:58.240 -> 35:01.280] He doesn't like to read, so he's like, just give me a one pager.
[35:01.280 -> 35:04.720] Like imagine you're like, give me the whole world summed up in one page, right?
[35:04.720 -> 35:09.540] Like just the profound narcissism there. But anyways what they
[35:09.540 -> 35:12.840] found is that if they really wanted him to do something or pay attention to
[35:12.840 -> 35:19.320] something they just had to put his name in it right so they like what he really
[35:19.320 -> 35:23.040] wanted to see was like quotes about himself he wanted to see what other
[35:23.040 -> 35:28.720] people were thinking about right he was He saw the entire world through the lens of,
[35:28.720 -> 35:30.240] well, what does this say about me?
[35:30.240 -> 35:31.760] What do other people think about me?
[35:31.760 -> 35:33.440] How does this make me look?
[35:33.440 -> 35:35.000] And so you can imagine,
[35:35.000 -> 35:36.900] he's not surrounded by the best and the brightest,
[35:36.900 -> 35:40.760] of course, but the way that they would manipulate him
[35:40.760 -> 35:44.680] to get things out of him came through,
[35:44.680 -> 35:46.400] telling him what he
[35:46.400 -> 35:51.400] wanted to hear, namely, you know, how something would make him look really
[35:51.400 -> 35:57.360] good or how not doing something might make him look very bad. And so I think
[35:57.360 -> 36:01.520] the problem with ego is not just that it's obnoxious, not just that it's often
[36:01.520 -> 36:05.000] unwarranted, but that it's profoundly manipulatable.
[36:05.000 -> 36:08.000] This is why Putin doesn't fear Trump.
[36:08.000 -> 36:11.000] Putin probably with all his intelligence experience goes like,
[36:11.000 -> 36:13.000] that's a guy I can work with, right?
[36:13.000 -> 36:17.000] Meaning that's a guy I can get to do what I want
[36:17.000 -> 36:20.000] because he understands that he has this, you know,
[36:20.000 -> 36:23.000] enormous vulnerability that is his narcissism.
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[37:30.800 -> 37:31.800] Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.
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[39:42.640 -> 39:46.960] We talk you know Ryan about a lot of things on this podcast that I've realised actually
[39:46.960 -> 39:51.900] have their roots in stoicism. So what we call world-class basics, and we talk about this
[39:51.900 -> 39:56.640] like small, tiny decisions, not huge, big, world-changing decisions, because I think
[39:56.640 -> 40:01.000] people think getting to their own version of high performance takes the big move, right?
[40:01.000 -> 40:04.400] But we talk about world-class basics, as you do in your book, you talk about clean your
[40:04.400 -> 40:08.200] desk, make your bed, get your things in order. Can you explain to
[40:08.200 -> 40:11.920] us why those seemingly insignificant things matter so deeply?
[40:11.920 -> 40:16.040] Yes, you know the founder of Stoicism, he has a great line, he says, well-being is
[40:16.040 -> 40:21.040] realized by small steps but it's no small thing. And I think that captures it
[40:21.040 -> 40:25.600] perfectly, right? Like, you know, we say don't sweat the small stuff
[40:25.600 -> 40:28.720] and this is obviously true in terms of, you know
[40:28.720 -> 40:32.840] sweating insignificant matters, like, oh
[40:32.840 -> 40:34.800] the sort of stresses of life.
[40:34.800 -> 40:37.920] But when it comes to a craft or it comes to a profession
[40:37.920 -> 40:41.240] or it comes to, you know, a specific endeavor
[40:41.240 -> 40:43.320] it's these loose ends as the quote goes
[40:43.320 -> 40:45.360] that we hang ourselves by, right? The little
[40:45.360 -> 40:52.000] things really matter and so getting them right, the building blocks on top of which, you know,
[40:52.640 -> 40:58.320] high performance is built, they really, really matter. And so yeah, I think it's key, you know,
[40:58.320 -> 41:01.840] whether it's what time you wake up in the morning, what does your workstation look like,
[41:01.840 -> 41:10.080] are you practicing, you know, all these little things cumulatively create the performance that we'd like to think comes as this sort of
[41:10.720 -> 41:14.420] Moment of inspiration or great performance, but that's not really how it goes
[41:14.720 -> 41:19.160] So that's related to the exterior elements of it
[41:19.160 -> 41:23.580] But you also talk very powerfully around the magisterial the soulful
[41:23.880 -> 41:27.760] Elements of it and you have that great phrase in your book, Ryan,
[41:27.760 -> 41:31.140] around be tolerant with others, but strict with yourself.
[41:31.140 -> 41:31.980] Yes.
[41:31.980 -> 41:33.440] Would you expand on that for us?
[41:33.440 -> 41:36.760] Yeah, I mean, look, it's on the one hand,
[41:36.760 -> 41:37.840] like discipline is rare.
[41:37.840 -> 41:39.840] So if you're just someone who's very strict,
[41:39.840 -> 41:43.360] you have high standards and you insist on everyone else
[41:43.360 -> 41:44.560] meeting those high standards,
[41:44.560 -> 41:45.480] that'll get you pretty far. have high standards and you insist on everyone else meeting those high standards, that's
[41:45.480 -> 41:49.320] a, that'll get you pretty far.
[41:49.320 -> 41:56.760] But I love and was very much inspired by this idea, one biographer said Marcus Aurelius's
[41:56.760 -> 42:03.280] strictness was limited solely to himself, meaning that he didn't go around disappointed
[42:03.280 -> 42:06.980] in everyone all the time because they weren't like him.
[42:06.980 -> 42:10.940] There was an expression in Rome, we can't all be Kato's,
[42:10.940 -> 42:13.540] meaning Kato, one of the famous stouts was so perfect
[42:13.540 -> 42:16.220] that everyone else despaired of being a Kato.
[42:16.220 -> 42:18.700] But this is true, particularly in sports,
[42:18.700 -> 42:21.600] like Kobe Bryant struggles with the idea
[42:21.600 -> 42:24.340] that not everyone is Kobe Bryant.
[42:24.340 -> 42:28.240] And a lot of his conflict, a lot of his,
[42:28.240 -> 42:31.040] you know, animosity towards his teammates,
[42:31.040 -> 42:35.040] was rooted in expecting them to live up to
[42:35.040 -> 42:39.440] not just impossible standards, but standards they never agreed to.
[42:39.440 -> 42:43.280] Right? Like, we all have different goals, we all have different capabilities, we
[42:43.280 -> 42:45.940] all have different journeys that we're on.
[42:45.940 -> 42:51.720] And I think one of the key aspects of discipline is remembering that it's called self-discipline
[42:51.720 -> 42:53.200] for a reason.
[42:53.200 -> 42:57.200] It's not a thing that you get to wield as a weapon against other people.
[42:57.200 -> 43:01.620] Some exceptions here in like, you know, if you're a military unit or something.
[43:01.620 -> 43:06.460] But for the most part, discipline is something that begins and ends at home.
[43:06.460 -> 43:10.380] And you have to leave other people to their own journey,
[43:10.380 -> 43:13.100] not just because that's fair,
[43:13.100 -> 43:15.660] but also for your own personal happiness.
[43:15.660 -> 43:18.440] If you want to be disappointed and angry
[43:18.440 -> 43:19.880] and resentful all the time,
[43:19.880 -> 43:21.660] there's no better way to do that
[43:21.660 -> 43:25.640] than to expect other people to be a certain way.
[43:25.640 -> 43:29.660] And I love the idea of being strict with yourself, but how does that sit with also being kind
[43:29.660 -> 43:32.320] to yourself? How does that work with the Stoics?
[43:32.320 -> 43:37.140] Yeah, Seneca writes in one of his letters, he says, you know, I really think I'm making
[43:37.140 -> 43:42.520] progress in this philosophy. How do I know, he says, because I've begun to be a better
[43:42.520 -> 43:46.940] friend to myself. So I wanted to talk about this in the book
[43:46.940 -> 43:48.620] because I don't want people to think
[43:48.620 -> 43:51.040] that discipline is just whipping yourself harder
[43:51.040 -> 43:53.540] and harder and harder to get a little bit more.
[43:53.540 -> 43:56.240] You know, if your friend was struggling,
[43:56.240 -> 43:59.020] you'd give them advice, you'd be happy to help.
[44:00.000 -> 44:03.020] You'd tell them to relax, you'd give them perspective.
[44:03.020 -> 44:07.000] And we have to be able to do that for ourselves too, right?
[44:07.000 -> 44:09.400] Winning at whatever it is that we do
[44:09.400 -> 44:13.160] should not come as some sort of terrible punishment, right?
[44:13.160 -> 44:14.880] Winning should not make us miserable,
[44:14.880 -> 44:17.080] it should not cost us everything.
[44:17.080 -> 44:19.880] And so I, again, coming back to this idea of balance,
[44:19.880 -> 44:22.040] I think being a friend to yourself
[44:22.040 -> 44:23.960] is of course holding yourself accountable,
[44:23.960 -> 44:29.420] expecting the best of yourself, but it's also you know understanding that you're a human
[44:29.420 -> 44:33.960] being, understanding that it's a long journey, understanding that nobody's
[44:33.960 -> 44:36.900] perfect and that we're all works in progress.
[44:36.900 -> 44:41.240] So a lot of stoicism from what I understand then Ryan was taught in in
[44:41.240 -> 44:46.480] schools in those days. Why do you think that we neglect to
[44:46.480 -> 44:52.000] teach this age-old wisdom today? You know I think one of the reasons that it's not
[44:52.000 -> 44:55.520] taught in universities is that it's so simple, right? It's hard to be a
[44:55.520 -> 45:02.240] specialist in something that's pretty damn straightforward. You know over the
[45:02.240 -> 45:07.920] centuries philosophy stopped being this sort of practical way of thinking
[45:07.920 -> 45:12.880] about life, about getting to high performance, about getting to your potential, and it started
[45:12.880 -> 45:20.720] to become around a lot of big abstract questions or impossible questions. And this was true even
[45:20.720 -> 45:25.660] in the time of the Stoics. The Stoics just didn't have time for that. It wasn't interesting to them.
[45:25.660 -> 45:30.020] And I think unfortunately, sort of academic philosophy,
[45:30.020 -> 45:34.020] you know, has become so far removed from the arena,
[45:34.020 -> 45:36.200] again, to go to where we began,
[45:36.200 -> 45:39.700] that it just doesn't feel like it's of value to people.
[45:39.700 -> 45:41.380] So people aren't interested in it.
[45:41.380 -> 45:42.920] I'm going to get a tattoo, Ryan.
[45:42.920 -> 45:49.200] I'm going to get a little MM on the inside of my wrist for a Memento Mori. Would you mind sharing your
[45:49.200 -> 45:52.960] thoughts around Memento Mori with our listeners because whenever I say this to
[45:52.960 -> 45:56.960] people they go well that's a bit depressing but it's the absolute total
[45:56.960 -> 46:01.600] opposite of depressing and negative. Yeah look I think the alternative is pretty
[46:01.600 -> 46:07.200] depressing too, the idea that you're gonna fool yourself about the nature of life
[46:07.200 -> 46:09.580] and thus waste the only life that you have
[46:09.580 -> 46:11.360] because you don't wanna think about something
[46:11.360 -> 46:14.240] that at first glance is a little unpleasant.
[46:14.240 -> 46:16.520] For the Stokes, memento mori is the practice
[46:16.520 -> 46:20.160] of meditating actively on one's mortality.
[46:20.160 -> 46:22.560] Mark Surila says, you could leave life right now,
[46:22.560 -> 46:25.040] let that determine what you do and say and think.
[46:25.040 -> 46:29.520] Right? He doesn't say you are going to leave life right now, so nothing matters.
[46:29.520 -> 46:34.560] He says, you could leave life right now. And so this is why he says we should focus. This is why
[46:34.560 -> 46:37.840] we should treat the things we're doing as important. This is why we should not leave
[46:37.840 -> 46:43.040] things undone. This is why we should not take people or places for granted. He says, this is
[46:43.040 -> 46:45.360] why we should embrace what is
[46:45.360 -> 46:50.200] before us. I think the most powerful way of thinking about memento mori comes from Seneca.
[46:50.200 -> 46:56.480] He says, don't think of death as something in the future that you are moving towards.
[46:56.480 -> 47:01.520] Think of death as something that's happening right now. He says, the time that passes belongs
[47:01.520 -> 47:06.800] to death. And so the idea that time know that time once once it goes by,
[47:06.800 -> 47:13.200] once an hour is wasted, it is dead forever. Once a year of your life is dead forever because you
[47:13.200 -> 47:18.720] spent it being sorry for yourself, you spent it drunk, you know you spent it scared, whatever it
[47:18.720 -> 47:31.240] was you know you never get that back. And so how you choose to spend your time is the most important choice that you make because time is the most precious resource that there is.
[47:31.240 -> 47:35.120] So what's the tattoo that you've got Ryan, if Jake's gonna get the MM, what's your
[47:35.120 -> 47:41.280] one and why is that so significant? So I have ego is the enemy, the obstacle is
[47:41.280 -> 47:47.520] the way, stillness is the key, sort of three reminders, I think aphorisms or proverbs
[47:47.520 -> 47:50.140] that are true in any and all situations,
[47:50.140 -> 47:51.720] you know, that there's no problem so bad
[47:51.720 -> 47:53.860] that we can't grow from it, you know,
[47:53.860 -> 47:58.260] that ego is never a helpful thing to introduce
[47:58.260 -> 48:00.440] and that, you know, sort of all great performance
[48:00.440 -> 48:01.660] comes from this place of stillness.
[48:01.660 -> 48:04.180] And then more recently, I got the actual,
[48:04.180 -> 48:08.400] the four virtues of stoicism on my left wrist as a
[48:08.400 -> 48:14.080] reminder of sort of what is demanded of me you know in each situation that I
[48:14.080 -> 48:17.120] find myself in. Would you read out those four values for people that don't know
[48:17.120 -> 48:22.880] of them? Yeah courage, temperance, justice, wisdom. That's a great on your body
[48:22.880 -> 48:25.780] reminder every day of those key
[48:25.780 -> 48:31.680] aphorisms for you. How did the Stoics go about reminding themselves of these
[48:31.680 -> 48:37.160] powerful lessons? Yeah I mean I think that the journaling practice if you
[48:37.160 -> 48:42.360] think about what meditations is for Marcus Aurelius you know he's sitting
[48:42.360 -> 48:47.520] down and talking to himself about these ideas, you know,
[48:47.520 -> 48:52.560] he never published a book for an audience, he probably mortified that we know what his
[48:52.560 -> 48:59.440] philosophical thinking was. Instead, each day, he would try to take a little bit of time and work
[48:59.440 -> 49:04.080] through these ideas, so as to always keep them top of mind.
[49:04.080 -> 49:05.020] Really nice.
[49:05.020 -> 49:06.480] And Ryan, our final question before we go,
[49:06.480 -> 49:08.800] and this is quite a personal one for me.
[49:08.800 -> 49:10.880] When I was a teenager, I lost my grandmother.
[49:10.880 -> 49:11.880] She took her own life.
[49:11.880 -> 49:14.720] And it's something that I still struggle with today
[49:14.720 -> 49:16.000] because of the age she was.
[49:16.000 -> 49:18.920] And, you know, that's not what grandparents do, right?
[49:18.920 -> 49:20.640] They've got their lives figured out.
[49:20.640 -> 49:22.720] And one thing that always resonates with me
[49:22.720 -> 49:24.280] when I listen to your work,
[49:24.280 -> 49:25.540] whether I'm reading
[49:25.540 -> 49:31.780] your books or listening to your podcast or using the Daily Stoic 366 words of wisdom
[49:31.780 -> 49:34.620] which I look at each day, is stick around.
[49:34.620 -> 49:38.380] And that important message of stick around, I'd love to finish with you just talking about
[49:38.380 -> 49:41.860] for people who are listening to this and who are struggling.
[49:41.860 -> 49:47.440] You know, I wouldn't say there's an irony in it, but the tragedy of the Stoics is that
[49:47.440 -> 49:50.080] two of the most famous Stoics also die by suicide.
[49:50.080 -> 49:53.460] Cato and Seneca are forced to die by their own hand.
[49:53.460 -> 49:55.700] It's not like some depressive moment,
[49:55.700 -> 49:57.620] but they are cornered by a tyrant
[49:57.620 -> 50:00.380] and sort of forced to take their own life.
[50:00.380 -> 50:02.700] But I think this aside,
[50:02.700 -> 50:07.280] the idea that nothing is truly unendurable, I think is something
[50:07.280 -> 50:13.860] the Stoics try to remind themselves of always, because life was so painful, because things
[50:13.860 -> 50:16.000] were so difficult, because things were so scary.
[50:16.000 -> 50:21.200] Marcus Aurelius loses six children.
[50:21.200 -> 50:24.920] Six of his children don't survive to adulthood.
[50:24.920 -> 50:26.160] So you imagine, even if that's
[50:26.160 -> 50:33.080] much more common at the time than it is now, imagine trying to get out of bed each morning
[50:33.080 -> 50:38.520] when you've lost one child that you love. And so I think what we can find in the Stoics,
[50:38.520 -> 50:44.000] you know, some people try to criticize Stoicism as this resignation or that it's depressive.
[50:44.000 -> 50:47.060] I mean, that the Stookes could get out of bed every morning
[50:47.060 -> 50:49.920] given the tragedy and pain and difficulty
[50:49.920 -> 50:53.720] that life dealt many of them, I think is a monument
[50:53.720 -> 50:55.920] to their strength and their perseverance
[50:55.920 -> 50:58.660] and their ultimate hope that, you know,
[50:58.660 -> 51:01.960] like things could get better, that people,
[51:01.960 -> 51:06.100] that they had some duty, some responsibility to the future,
[51:06.100 -> 51:07.540] to the people who depended on them,
[51:07.540 -> 51:09.660] to the people who loved them.
[51:09.660 -> 51:12.220] And yeah, I think sticking around
[51:12.220 -> 51:15.840] is the most stoic thing that you can do.
[51:15.840 -> 51:18.260] And we need you to stick around.
[51:18.260 -> 51:21.860] Nobody knows what life is gonna,
[51:22.700 -> 51:29.560] what situations life is going to put them in in the future, but it could be a, you know, a heroic world-changing moment
[51:29.560 -> 51:31.560] and it would be a shame
[51:31.560 -> 51:34.200] at that moment for you not to be here.
[51:34.200 -> 51:36.640] So Ryan, putting our own egos to one side,
[51:37.440 -> 51:42.560] we want you to tell us what question should we have asked you that we haven't done?
[51:42.560 -> 51:48.880] I think the question that you just asked me to me is the one that I think about the most. I don't want people to
[51:48.880 -> 51:56.480] think of Stoicism as this kind of unfeeling, you know, brute force thing. I
[51:56.480 -> 52:01.400] mean the Stoics felt things, they felt pain, they felt lost, they felt like life
[52:01.400 -> 52:08.540] was hopeless sometimes, but I think what's so impressive about them is that they always believed there was something they
[52:08.540 -> 52:12.540] could do with that and that's why they stuck around, that's why they pushed
[52:12.540 -> 52:16.340] through and I'd love to leave people with that.
[52:16.340 -> 52:21.140] Really nice. I often come back to the fact that actually the Stoics were, they
[52:21.140 -> 52:24.420] realized the privilege of life and the privilege of getting up in the morning,
[52:24.420 -> 52:26.880] having another day, the chance to think to
[52:27.320 -> 52:30.840] Enjoy to love and to share their wisdom and you know
[52:31.160 -> 52:37.280] we're really grateful for you for coming on here and sharing your incredible wisdom regarding the Stoics and
[52:37.400 -> 52:41.960] I think people would get so much from that. That's very well said and I totally agree
[52:41.960 -> 52:45.420] And thank you guys very much for having me. Thanks Ryan. It's been immense
[52:49.080 -> 52:52.000] Damien Jake, no, you know, I was slightly
[52:53.800 -> 52:59.400] Fanboying over him, but I love the whole mindset of the Stoics and I think it's a in some ways
[52:59.400 -> 53:01.120] I like in it a bit to high performance
[53:01.120 -> 53:05.800] There will be things that people don't agree with there be things that people can't relate to
[53:04.440 -> 53:07.640] but there'll be other things that
[53:05.800 -> 53:10.080] people quite like and then other things
[53:07.640 -> 53:11.960] that they actually want to adopt into
[53:10.080 -> 53:13.440] their lives and I think that that's what
[53:11.960 -> 53:15.520] this is all about you know it's not
[53:13.440 -> 53:17.240] stoicism like the high-performance
[53:15.520 -> 53:19.000] podcast it's not about a set
[53:17.240 -> 53:20.880] mindset this is how you have to be it's
[53:19.000 -> 53:22.200] it's offering up a load of different
[53:20.880 -> 53:24.080] thoughts and seeing what works for
[53:22.200 -> 53:26.560] people so which is the one that resonates
[53:24.080 -> 53:26.960] most with you out of
[53:24.800 -> 53:28.800] all the other books that you've read on that?
[53:26.960 -> 53:31.480] Without, as I mentioned at the end,
[53:28.800 -> 53:33.120] Memento Mori, which my direct
[53:31.480 -> 53:35.000] translation is remember you're dying.
[53:33.120 -> 53:37.280] Yeah. And I know that people can go, wow,
[53:35.000 -> 53:38.760] that's a bit, but, but I think remember
[53:37.280 -> 53:40.320] you're dying, like, informs every
[53:38.760 -> 53:43.040] decision you make every single day. You
[53:40.320 -> 53:44.880] don't worry about the small things like
[53:43.040 -> 53:47.200] losing your wallet or
[53:44.140 -> 53:48.960] stubbing your toe because you know it
[53:47.200 -> 53:51.760] doesn't matter because you remember you're
[53:48.960 -> 53:53.200] dying but then you do call your mom and
[53:51.760 -> 53:55.080] dad and speak to your friends and put
[53:53.200 -> 53:57.040] time into relationships because you
[53:55.080 -> 53:58.360] remember you're dying and you do get up
[53:57.040 -> 53:59.720] in the morning and you look at the world
[53:58.360 -> 54:02.200] and think wow you know this is
[53:59.720 -> 54:04.400] incredible and before I know it I won't
[54:02.200 -> 54:06.760] be here because you do remember you're
[54:04.400 -> 54:09.980] dying and I think that for me it's a totally positive way of thinking is it have you
[54:09.980 -> 54:15.240] delved at all into stoicism since you prompted it that you were the one that
[54:15.240 -> 54:20.280] your enthusiasm for it led me to pick up the ego is the enemy book which I really
[54:20.280 -> 54:26.400] enjoyed I think the power of it for me is that I'm not sure who said it but it's like simplicity without understanding something is simple ddim yn siŵr bod y cyfle i mi yw, dwi ddim yn siŵr pa bod wedi dweud, ond mae'n iawn, cyfnod o
[54:26.400 -> 54:32.880] ddiogelu'r un peth yn amlwg, cyfnod o ddiogelu'r un peth yw cyfnod o ddiogelu, felly mae'n
[54:32.880 -> 54:38.400] nes i'r syniad yw nad yw dim ond un afamiaeth a ydych chi'n ddod allan heb meddwl amdano, mae'n
[54:38.400 -> 54:46.400] y cyfleu, y amser diwethaf y byddwch chi'n ymddygiadu arno, sy'n ymwneud â'i fod yn rhywbeth Daily time that you spend meditating on it that then leads it to then be something really quite profound and powerful
[54:46.400 -> 54:52.760] Yeah, and and you know, it was really one of the one of the driving forces behind creating the high-performance journal
[54:52.760 -> 54:54.760] you know the fact that
[54:55.180 -> 54:57.700] Journaling and writing down your thoughts
[54:58.440 -> 55:00.840] Was a stoic behavior, you know
[55:00.840 -> 55:05.520] the power of that is as Ryan mentioned when we interviewed him just then. Yeah, it makes a difference
[55:05.520 -> 55:07.520] it has an impact and
[55:07.760 -> 55:12.360] I've realized people's lives are busy and they've got loads of things going on and you know at the moment
[55:12.360 -> 55:15.560] there's lots of stresses and strains around so if we can create a journal that
[55:16.280 -> 55:22.000] Cuts through all of that and it takes the moments a day, but it gets them closer to their own version of high-performance
[55:22.840 -> 55:25.520] Through the thoughts and the work of the stoics in great i'r fersiwn ei hun o lefel o gyflwyniad mawr, drwy'r meddwl a'r gwaith o'r peth ystoic yn graidd.
[55:25.520 -> 55:29.680] Yr hyn rwy'n ei fod yn hoffi yw bod, fel y dywedodd Ryan yno yn y cyfansoddiad,
[55:29.680 -> 55:32.160] bod llawer ohonyn nhw'n sylwadau cyffredinol, ac dyna pam nad ydyn nhw'n ymysgu yma
[55:32.160 -> 55:35.840] ym mhrosodolion a'r brifysgolion, oherwydd mae'n amlwg, ond,
[55:35.840 -> 55:38.640] dim ond oherwydd ei fod yn sylwadau cyffredinol, dim yn ymwneud â'r ymdrechion cyffredinol,
[55:38.640 -> 55:43.280] ac rwy'n credu y byddwn i'n ysgrifennu yno yw sut y gall y myfyrwyr,
[55:46.200 -> 55:50.700] describing there is how can listeners and hopefully readers take it on and make these messages a part of their daily routines.
[55:50.700 -> 55:52.200] I hope they do, thanks mate.
[55:52.200 -> 55:53.200] Thanks mate, loved it.
[55:53.200 -> 55:58.760] Time to meet another high-performance listener and say hello to Jane Grey who
[55:58.760 -> 56:02.240] sent us a message saying that she set up a business at the start of lockdown
[56:02.240 -> 56:05.880] after retraining in her late 40s. She's also a single mom.
[56:05.880 -> 56:07.640] And she actually talks about the fact that,
[56:07.640 -> 56:09.720] you know, sometimes when there's no one else to turn to,
[56:09.720 -> 56:12.600] something like high performance can almost offer you
[56:12.600 -> 56:14.840] that advice, that perspective.
[56:14.840 -> 56:17.840] And in some ways, almost a person to sort of
[56:17.840 -> 56:20.840] share your thoughts with or to gain knowledge from.
[56:20.840 -> 56:21.880] She says that high performance
[56:21.880 -> 56:23.720] has become a key part of her routine.
[56:23.720 -> 56:25.800] So let's say hello. Hi, Jane.
[56:25.800 -> 56:27.200] Jane Miller Hi there. Nice to meet you.
[56:27.200 -> 56:28.200] Jason Vale How are you?
[56:28.200 -> 56:29.440] Jane Miller I'm very good. Thank you.
[56:29.440 -> 56:31.600] Jason Vale So what was the business you set up at the
[56:31.600 -> 56:35.720] start of lockdown? And probably even more useful for the people listening to this, what
[56:35.720 -> 56:38.920] was the thing that made you think, you know what, I'm going to do this?
[56:38.920 -> 56:43.400] Jane Miller As with a lot of people's circumstances, being
[56:43.400 -> 56:45.760] a single mum and having been for quite a long
[56:45.760 -> 56:52.400] time, well over 10 years now, I tried the corporate full-time job and it just didn't
[56:52.400 -> 56:59.600] work for three kids at that point all at school. So it was kind of right, I need to do something
[56:59.600 -> 57:04.760] different, I need to fit in with around their lives really and to be with them. I don't
[57:04.760 -> 57:06.920] have anybody locally that I can rely on, so it was kind of right, I have to fit in with around their lives really. And to be with that, I don't have anybody locally that I can rely on.
[57:06.920 -> 57:09.240] So it was kind of, right, I have to make this work.
[57:09.880 -> 57:14.800] So I actually retrained as, so now running an accounting service business,
[57:15.840 -> 57:17.760] uh, which I work from home.
[57:18.360 -> 57:21.200] So I've been madly building that up over the last few years.
[57:21.200 -> 57:24.080] So, and it's been the best thing I've done, to be honest, it's been great.
[57:24.440 -> 57:26.280] It's been a really positive thing in my life.
[57:27.560 -> 57:31.280] And how did you find the process of having to retrain, you know, like in
[57:31.280 -> 57:35.800] your words, in, in your late forties, this is one of the themes that people
[57:35.800 -> 57:39.120] often think it's too late for me, or I can't do it at my age.
[57:39.360 -> 57:40.000] Totally.
[57:40.040 -> 57:41.080] And do you know what?
[57:41.080 -> 57:43.640] I wouldn't have even considered it before.
[57:44.160 -> 57:45.760] I left school really
[57:45.760 -> 57:52.080] early, no qualifications. I was doing other stuff at that time. So I hadn't studied for
[57:52.720 -> 57:57.760] years and years and years. So it was a massive plunge for me to do it. But actually,
[57:58.400 -> 58:03.200] as you go through it gradually, I've learned that I can, you can still learn at whatever age you are.
[58:03.200 -> 58:04.960] Jason Valey, MPH I love hearing that. And I think that,
[58:04.960 -> 58:06.560] you know, so many people will be listening to
[58:06.560 -> 58:11.280] this and we all are the same, Jane. We've all got self-doubt. We're all racked with
[58:11.280 -> 58:15.680] imposter syndrome. And actually, I think one of the most important conversations that we
[58:15.680 -> 58:19.560] have on high performance is with people who've achieved great things and they are still flawed
[58:19.560 -> 58:22.960] and they are still full of doubts and they are still learning and things. And I, I'd
[58:22.960 -> 58:26.360] love to know who the guests were that resonated
[58:26.360 -> 58:27.280] with you in that sense.
[58:27.280 -> 58:29.640] You know, you talk about the fact that it can offer, you
[58:29.640 -> 58:32.000] know, a bit of companionship and an adult perspective in a
[58:32.000 -> 58:35.720] business sense. So who was it that, that really spoke to you?
[58:36.000 -> 58:38.120] First of all, I'd say it's the ones that you don't perhaps
[58:38.120 -> 58:42.680] think like I'm, you know, sport fan, motor racing fan, kind of
[58:42.680 -> 58:48.120] so gravitated towards those. For me, it was people like James Timpson from a business perspective.
[58:48.920 -> 58:53.960] Billy Munger I loved, Paul McGinley, Steve Salas was amazing.
[58:54.200 -> 58:56.640] It's little takeaways from everybody you listen to.
[58:57.160 -> 59:01.680] You might not necessarily identify with everybody, but you can always
[59:01.680 -> 59:03.040] learn something from somebody.
[59:03.600 -> 59:08.000] If there was one message that you picked up from, from listening to nearly
[59:08.000 -> 59:14.000] 120 of these episodes that you would pass on to somebody, what would you say that is?
[59:14.000 -> 59:26.400] It's probably around the consistency, the hard work, um, and just having a bit of faith in your own abilities and getting some self-confidence
[59:26.400 -> 59:29.040] that actually you can do it.
[59:29.040 -> 59:34.680] But also for me, that you can't necessarily change and fix everything.
[59:34.680 -> 59:38.080] You can only sort the things that you're in control of.
[59:38.080 -> 59:42.720] And being a bit of a natural worrier, I worry about everything.
[59:42.720 -> 59:46.560] And it's really helped me just sort of focus in on the things that
[59:46.560 -> 59:51.160] actually I can control and to let go of the rest.
[59:51.160 -> 59:53.960] That's been a big takeaway because I think a lot of people say that actually.
[59:53.960 -> 59:54.960] Wow.
[59:54.960 -> 59:57.720] Thank you so much for coming on and sharing that with us.
[59:57.720 -> 01:00:01.240] I loved hearing the way you spoke about it and the impact it's had.
[01:00:01.240 -> 01:00:04.920] You are the very essence of what we do and why we do it.
[01:00:04.920 -> 01:00:05.300] So thank you
[01:00:05.300 -> 01:00:06.300] so much.
[01:00:06.300 -> 01:00:07.300] Yeah, thank you, Jane.
[01:00:07.300 -> 01:00:10.900] Oh, no, thanks for your time and thanks for inviting me on.
[01:00:10.900 -> 01:00:15.440] I really hope that you enjoyed that. Can I just remind you that most people that listen
[01:00:15.440 -> 01:00:19.820] to this podcast, they get to this point, you know, we get the numbers, we get the information,
[01:00:19.820 -> 01:00:23.340] like you are amazing, you listen all the way to the end. So thank you for that. But you
[01:00:23.340 -> 01:00:26.920] still don't subscribe or follow us. And I can't tell you the difference it makes. If you can
[01:00:26.920 -> 01:00:31.840] spend 10 seconds right now just hitting follow or hitting subscribe, it makes the world of
[01:00:31.840 -> 01:00:36.600] difference. That's all I ask you to do. Do that. Share the podcast, spread the podcast
[01:00:36.600 -> 01:00:41.520] that way. And that's it, really. I hope you enjoyed it. Once again, huge thanks to you
[01:00:41.520 -> 01:00:48.320] for growing, sharing, talking about this podcast among your own communities. It makes a huge difference to everybody. Please continue to spread the
[01:00:48.320 -> 01:00:52.440] learnings that you're taking from this series. Thank you to Finn, to Hannah, to Will, to
[01:00:52.440 -> 01:00:58.400] Eve, to Gemma, to Callum, to Chloe, to the whole team behind High Performance. And remember,
[01:00:58.400 -> 01:01:02.920] there is no secret. It is all there for you. So chase world-class basics. Don't get high
[01:01:02.920 -> 01:01:07.720] on your own supply. Remain humble, curious, and empathetic,
[01:01:07.720 -> 01:01:08.840] and we'll see you soon.
[01:01:24.930 -> 01:01:27.970] Bye!