Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 00:00:13 GMT
Duration:
1:03:11
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
This the second episode in our CEO Series, in which we will be deep diving into what it takes to be a CEO.
Greg Jackson is the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy Group, which currently has over 3.1 million UK customers. Octopus are on a mission to bring cheaper, greener power to all. In this episode Greg shares not only what it means to be a successful leader and team player, but how to live a more authentic life altogether. During this episode Greg shares a key life lesson: “Be more like your Gran”. Older people are always happier and fulfilled as they are confident in themselves whilst being able to admit their own flaws, he states this is something we should all aspire to be.
Greg shares how integral creating a world where we are all equal is and why we should seek to get rid of any power dynamics. He discusses with Jake and Damian how crucial respect, compromise and authenticity are within his personal and professional life.
Thank you to PwC for sponsoring this special CEO Series. PwC’s purpose is to build trust and solve important problems, and their global strategy - The New Equation - is bringing this to life for their clients, people and society. By combining technology with human ingenuity, passion and experience, PwC works with organisations to deliver more intelligent, sustained outcomes.
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# Navigating Leadership and Authenticity: Insights from Greg Jackson, CEO of Octopus Energy
In this episode of the High-Performance Podcast, Greg Jackson, the founder and CEO of Octopus Energy Group, joins Jake Humphrey for an in-depth conversation about leadership, authenticity, and creating a more equitable world. Jackson emphasizes the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and creating a culture where everyone feels equal and respected.
**Key Takeaways:**
1. **Authenticity and Vulnerability:** Jackson stresses the significance of being true to oneself and embracing vulnerability as a leader. He shares an experience where a colleague pointed out that he was not being his genuine self, leading him to reflect on his behavior and make a conscious effort to stay authentic.
2. **Creating an Equal and Inclusive Workplace:** Jackson believes in fostering a work environment where everyone feels equal, regardless of their background or position. He encourages the use of accessible language, avoiding jargon and exclusive terms that can create barriers. He also emphasizes the importance of addressing issues openly and admitting mistakes when they occur.
3. **Purpose-Driven Leadership:** Jackson highlights the importance of having a clear mission and purpose that drives the organization. He believes that leaders should focus on creating a positive impact on the world, rather than solely pursuing profit.
4. **Balancing Personal and Professional Life:** Jackson recognizes the challenges of balancing personal and professional life, especially as a leader with significant responsibilities. He emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries, making time for family and personal well-being, and ensuring that work doesn't consume all aspects of life.
5. **Learning from Mistakes:** Jackson acknowledges that mistakes are a natural part of the learning process and encourages individuals to embrace failures as opportunities for growth. He believes that the fear of failure can hold people back from achieving their full potential.
6. **Relating to Customers and Employees:** Jackson stresses the importance of understanding the perspectives of customers and employees. He believes that leaders should listen actively, empathize with their concerns, and strive to create a positive and supportive work environment.
7. **Avoiding Power Dynamics:** Jackson emphasizes the need to eliminate power dynamics and hierarchies that can create barriers and hinder collaboration. He believes that leaders should foster a culture of respect, compromise, and open communication, where everyone feels valued and empowered to contribute.
8. **Leading with Compassion:** Jackson highlights the importance of leading with compassion, especially during challenging times like the energy crisis. He believes that leaders should prioritize the well-being of their employees and customers, and take proactive steps to support them through difficult situations.
Overall, Greg Jackson's insights provide valuable lessons on authentic leadership, creating an inclusive workplace, and driving positive change through a clear mission and purpose. His emphasis on authenticity, vulnerability, and empathy resonates with the core values of high-performance individuals and teams.
# Summary of the Podcast Episode: "The CEO Series: Greg Jackson, Founder and CEO of Octopus Energy Group"
**Introduction**
* This episode is part of PwC's special CEO Series, exploring what it takes to be a successful CEO.
* Greg Jackson, founder and CEO of Octopus Energy Group, shares his insights on leadership, authenticity, and creating a more sustainable world.
**Key Points**
* **Authenticity and Transparency:**
* Jackson emphasizes the importance of authenticity and transparency in leadership.
* He believes that companies should be honest about their mistakes and challenges, rather than trying to cover them up.
* This approach builds trust and credibility with customers and stakeholders.
* **Creating a Level Playing Field:**
* Jackson advocates for eliminating power dynamics and creating a level playing field within organizations.
* He believes that respect, compromise, and authenticity are crucial for fostering a positive work environment.
* **Prioritizing Sustainability:**
* Jackson acknowledges the contradiction of Octopus Energy Group selling gas while aiming to be a green energy company.
* He explains that the company is working towards a future where gas is no longer necessary by investing in renewable energy sources and developing innovative technologies.
* **Engaging Customers:**
* Jackson shares his belief that customers can care about energy and make a difference.
* He highlights the company's efforts to connect with customers on a personal level and encourage them to use energy more efficiently.
* **Overcoming Cynicism:**
* Jackson discusses the challenge of overcoming cynicism and skepticism towards the company's mission and approach.
* He emphasizes the importance of demonstrating genuine commitment to sustainability through actions and initiatives.
* **Handling Criticism:**
* Jackson acknowledges that criticism is a part of being a leader and that it can be difficult to deal with.
* He explains that he tries to focus on the heart of his decisions and the positive impact they aim to achieve.
* **Developing a Positive Organizational Culture:**
* Jackson shares his approach to developing a positive and engaged organizational culture at Octopus Energy Group.
* He highlights the importance of regular communication, open dialogue, and a shared sense of purpose.
* **Putting People First:**
* Jackson emphasizes the importance of putting people first, even during challenging times.
* He believes that taking care of employees and customers during difficult periods fosters loyalty and long-term success.
* **Addressing Climate Change:**
* Jackson expresses his concern about the urgency of addressing climate change and the need for collective action.
* He emphasizes the availability of renewable energy solutions and the importance of economic signals that encourage sustainable practices.
**Conclusion**
The podcast episode provides valuable insights from Greg Jackson on leadership, authenticity, and the importance of sustainability in business. It highlights the challenges and opportunities faced by CEOs in creating a positive impact on their organizations, customers, and the environment.
# Navigating the Complexities of CEO Leadership: Insights from Greg Jackson of Octopus Energy Group
## A Conversation Centered on Authenticity, Empathy, and Relentless Pursuit of Change:
This episode of the High-Performance Podcast features Greg Jackson, the founder, and CEO of Octopus Energy Group. Greg engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes, delving into the intricacies of leadership, personal growth, and the pursuit of a higher purpose.
## Key Themes Explored:
- **Authenticity and Empathy:** Greg emphasizes the significance of authenticity and empathy in leadership. He believes that successful leaders should be genuine and relatable, fostering a culture of respect and understanding within their teams.
- **Relentless Pursuit of Change:** Greg highlights the importance of being relentless in driving positive change. He encourages leaders to set ambitious goals, embrace challenges, and continuously strive for improvement.
- **Purpose-Driven Leadership:** Greg underscores the value of leading with a clear sense of purpose. He believes that leaders should be driven by a higher calling, inspiring their teams to work towards a common goal that transcends individual interests.
- **Avoiding Power Dynamics:** Greg emphasizes the need to eliminate power dynamics within organizations. He advocates for creating a level playing field where everyone feels valued and empowered to contribute their ideas.
- **Compromise and Collaboration:** Greg discusses the importance of compromise and collaboration in achieving success. He believes that leaders should be willing to find common ground and work together to find solutions that benefit all parties involved.
- **Learning from Mistakes:** Greg shares his belief that mistakes are an inevitable part of the learning process. He encourages leaders to embrace failures as opportunities for growth and development.
- **Work-Life Balance and Personal Well-being:** Greg stresses the importance of maintaining a healthy work-life balance and prioritizing personal well-being. He believes that leaders need to take care of themselves to be effective and sustainable in their roles.
## Memorable Quotes from Greg Jackson:
- "Be more like your Gran. Older people are always happier and fulfilled as they are confident in themselves whilst being able to admit their own flaws."
- "I think the first one is respecting other people, really understanding that if people have got the talent, brains to survive in today's society, to pay mortgages, bring up kids and everything else, they can do pretty much anything a company asks of them."
- "And the reason I say that is, look, people think of compromise as a good thing, but the reality is it means neither person is getting what they want. And actually by having a longer conversation and really digging into what we want, we can often find solutions that meet both people's needs."
- "I think it's to be relentless. For example every morning I get up the moment the alarm goes off, I don't hit the snooze button."
- "It's like, it's really easy every day and every week to start with a to-do list, which is all the things that you have to do. The really hard bit, but the bit that's most important, is to create a to-do list of the stuff that's going to make the world different tomorrow than it was yesterday."
## Overall Message:
Greg Jackson's insights provide valuable lessons for aspiring and current leaders. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity, empathy, and a relentless pursuit of change. By embracing these principles, leaders can create high-performing teams, drive innovation, and make a positive impact on the world.
[00:00.000 -> 00:06.760] Hi there, I'm Jake Humphrey. This is High Performance, our conversation for you every
[00:06.760 -> 00:12.560] single week. Welcome along to the second episode of our new CEO series, which reveals the truth
[00:12.560 -> 00:17.960] about leadership with top CEOs from across Europe. They will explain how they define,
[00:17.960 -> 00:22.080] create and maintain culture within their business. We'll delve into their setbacks and their
[00:22.080 -> 00:28.960] self-belief. This is CEOs Disarmed, completely honest, and deeply vulnerable.
[00:28.960 -> 00:33.440] Now last week we were joined by the CEO of Aviva, Amanda Blanc.
[00:33.440 -> 00:37.520] And I just want to let you know that I had an amazing message from a mum of three girls
[00:37.520 -> 00:40.240] who told me that they listened to the Amanda Blanc episode
[00:40.880 -> 00:43.920] on the way to school over the course of two or three days.
[00:43.920 -> 00:46.900] And at the end of it it her three girls said to her
[00:46.920 -> 00:50.880] It's the first time they really believe they can do anything they want
[00:51.400 -> 00:58.960] And I think that is the ultimate endorsement of what these episodes are about and why it's so important that we have these diverse
[00:59.200 -> 01:04.740] conversations with people from all walks of life all backgrounds who could inspire people listening to this so
[01:04.240 -> 01:09.120] from all walks of life, all backgrounds, who could inspire people listening to this. So, Annabelle, thank you very much for your message. Amanda, thank you for
[01:09.120 -> 01:14.360] appearing on the first episode of our CEO series. Today, we welcome the CEO of
[01:14.360 -> 01:17.680] Octopus Energy, Greg Jackson.
[01:17.680 -> 01:20.800] Most energy companies, their strategy was
[01:20.800 -> 01:25.280] pretend we don't exist, keep sending the bills and hope we get paid.
[01:30.560 -> 01:35.040] But actually, you know, we've created this massive pink, purple, I don't really know, out there brand because we want to be loud and proud about how energy can make the world better
[01:35.040 -> 01:40.080] and what we can do as part of that. I've got the opportunity to lead something at scale
[01:40.080 -> 01:47.920] that can make the world better and it feels like a sort of a responsibility. It's really easy
[01:47.920 -> 01:51.440] every day and every week to start with a to-do list which is all the things that you have to do.
[01:51.440 -> 01:55.840] The really hard bit but the bit that's most important is to create a to-do list of the
[01:55.840 -> 01:59.840] stuff that's going to make the world different tomorrow than it was yesterday. But the pandemic
[01:59.840 -> 02:05.320] was nothing compared to climate change. Climate change will wipe out our species and plenty
[02:05.320 -> 02:08.680] of others if we don't do something about it.
[02:08.680 -> 02:13.400] Now this is a fascinating conversation. I need to point out right now that this was
[02:13.400 -> 02:18.000] recorded before the current energy crisis, so we weren't able to speak to Greg about
[02:18.000 -> 02:22.480] the situation we find ourselves in. But I'm really glad actually that we've been joined
[02:22.480 -> 02:26.800] by a boss from one of the energy companies, Because I think one of the issues we've got
[02:27.080 -> 02:30.680] With society at the moment is that we love to put everyone in a box in a bracket
[02:30.680 -> 02:35.680] And I think that all bosses of energy firms have been portrayed over the last few weeks as being uncaring
[02:36.080 -> 02:39.000] Being out of touch being fat cats not understanding
[02:39.000 -> 02:42.420] What you and I are having to go through to make sure that we've paid our bills at the moment
[02:42.420 -> 02:46.440] And the fact is that that's not the complete truth.
[02:46.440 -> 02:49.600] As you're about to hear, Greg leads with compassion.
[02:49.600 -> 02:54.440] His own family, when he was growing up, were unable to afford to heat their home.
[02:54.440 -> 02:57.280] And I think that it's important that the people that are running our energy
[02:57.280 -> 03:00.760] businesses genuinely know how hard it can be.
[03:00.760 -> 03:03.520] And I'm very impressed by the way that his business has responded to
[03:03.520 -> 03:04.680] the current energy crisis.
[03:04.680 -> 03:05.800] And I'm not sitting here because way that his business has responded to the current energy crisis and I'm not sitting here because
[03:05.960 -> 03:07.960] This is some advert for his business
[03:08.480 -> 03:12.480] I'm not blind to the fact that it's his business's job first and foremost to make money
[03:12.600 -> 03:18.460] But what you're gonna hear over the next hour or so is that he is a man who is leading an energy business with compassion
[03:18.560 -> 03:22.660] With heart and with understanding and so much more needs to be done
[03:22.880 -> 03:29.360] Not just by people like Greg and the energy industry, but by the government. So much more. People are going to really struggle
[03:29.360 -> 03:34.480] this winter. But I also want you to hear him talk and really understand that there are
[03:34.480 -> 03:39.840] people in that industry who care, who have a heart, and who are doing what they can.
[03:39.840 -> 03:45.200] So here we go. It's time for the second episode of this CEO series of the High Performance Podcast,
[03:45.200 -> 03:50.200] which by the way is brought to you by PWC. And we were keen to work with PWC because
[03:50.200 -> 03:54.640] they often set the bar for leadership, for culture, for inclusion and looking at the
[03:54.640 -> 03:59.340] future of work. And their purpose is to build trust and solve important problems. And their
[03:59.340 -> 04:04.040] global strategy, the new equation, is bringing this to life for their clients, people and
[04:04.040 -> 04:07.160] society. By combining technology with human ingenuity
[04:07.500 -> 04:09.180] passion and experience
[04:09.180 -> 04:15.100] They're looking to work with organizations to deliver more intelligent and sustained outcome. So PWC
[04:15.100 -> 04:17.100] Thank you for partnering with the high-performance podcast
[04:17.100 -> 04:20.860] Thank you to Greg Jackson of octopus energy for agreeing to come on this episode
[04:20.860 -> 04:29.560] But most of all thanks to you for coming to this with an open mind and a willingness to understand more. Let's do it then. Here's Greg Jackson on the
[04:29.560 -> 04:30.960] High Performance podcast.
[04:30.960 -> 04:37.880] Well, Greg, first of all, thank you so much for joining us on High Performance. Let's
[04:37.880 -> 04:41.820] start as we always do. What to you is high performance?
[04:41.820 -> 04:47.580] I think very few of us are privileged to get to see real high
[04:47.580 -> 04:50.560] performance alongside our own performance very often but for me I
[04:50.560 -> 04:53.800] think about like when you're at school there's the kid who was best at football
[04:53.800 -> 04:58.760] just so much better, no one could come close to them and yet at county level
[04:58.760 -> 05:03.680] they may not even get a game but the person was best at county level might
[05:03.680 -> 05:05.920] never make it to be a pro and if they did make it to a pro,
[05:05.920 -> 05:07.360] they probably wouldn't be in the premiership.
[05:07.360 -> 05:08.360] And if they were in the premiership,
[05:08.360 -> 05:09.440] they probably wouldn't be in the winning team.
[05:09.440 -> 05:10.280] If they were in the winning team,
[05:10.280 -> 05:13.180] they probably wouldn't be the best player.
[05:14.000 -> 05:15.840] Like the reality is that, you know,
[05:15.840 -> 05:20.360] so the very top performers are so far ahead
[05:20.360 -> 05:22.880] of our normal experience that I think
[05:22.880 -> 05:26.000] we need to think about that if we want to set our sights high.
[05:26.000 -> 05:28.000] And so I guess for me,
[05:28.000 -> 05:30.000] a lot of the thing is about
[05:30.000 -> 05:32.000] for example today, Octopus Energy's got
[05:32.000 -> 05:34.000] you know, 3.7 million customers
[05:34.000 -> 05:36.000] maybe 5 or 6 billion pounds
[05:36.000 -> 05:38.000] turnover, 3,000 employees.
[05:38.000 -> 05:40.000] But actually we're just 0.4%
[05:40.000 -> 05:42.000] of the global energy market.
[05:42.000 -> 05:44.000] We've got so much further to go.
[05:44.000 -> 05:49.480] So let's take that mindset back then to when you were 16 years old and you
[05:49.480 -> 05:53.920] dropped out of school to program video games. Now part of you might have been,
[05:53.920 -> 05:57.880] I am so self-assured and I'm so confident and I believe so much in my own
[05:57.880 -> 06:01.120] abilities I'm gonna ignore my teachers, I'm gonna ignore my parents, I'm gonna
[06:01.120 -> 06:04.880] take this path. Or there could have been a part of you that thought, I'm just
[06:04.880 -> 06:06.560] totally confused, I'm totally lost, I'm really not enjoying school, I'm going to take this path. Or there could have been a part of you that thought, I'm just totally confused, I'm totally lost,
[06:06.560 -> 06:07.760] I'm really not enjoying school,
[06:07.760 -> 06:10.280] I'm just going to try something else,
[06:10.280 -> 06:11.720] which plays into what you just spoke about,
[06:11.720 -> 06:14.200] where we don't really know how far life's going to take us.
[06:14.200 -> 06:15.680] Which of the two was it?
[06:15.680 -> 06:18.120] Actually, it was really for me,
[06:18.120 -> 06:20.880] not being scared of failure.
[06:20.880 -> 06:22.320] When we were very young, you know,
[06:22.320 -> 06:28.000] when I was primary school and some of senior school, we were really hard up.
[06:28.000 -> 06:29.000] One of the things that inspired me to do this
[06:29.000 -> 06:32.000] is that mum couldn't always pay the bills.
[06:32.000 -> 06:35.000] As a single mum with three kids.
[06:35.000 -> 06:38.000] And I think when you've experienced being really hard up,
[06:38.000 -> 06:40.000] you're kind of not scared of failure.
[06:40.000 -> 06:42.000] And there's a tremendous strength in that
[06:42.000 -> 06:44.000] because you know that the worst it gets,
[06:44.000 -> 06:46.100] you can still be okay
[06:46.680 -> 06:49.560] And I think sometimes like, you know, kind of what holds people back
[06:50.360 -> 06:53.460] It's that kind of fear that they're gonna lose what they've got
[06:53.840 -> 06:58.880] But if you're confident that you'll be okay with nothing, then I think that's a really great strength
[06:58.880 -> 07:01.600] And so for me, I didn't really worry about the downside
[07:02.320 -> 07:07.200] But I thought there's something I was going to, I might be good at it, and it was fun.
[07:07.200 -> 07:10.000] So what was the worst that it got then, Greg?
[07:10.000 -> 07:12.800] First of all, astonishing kudos to my mum.
[07:12.800 -> 07:14.840] She had three kids, the youngest was a year old
[07:14.840 -> 07:16.200] when she became a single mum.
[07:16.200 -> 07:20.400] And, you know, I remember getting on the bus
[07:20.400 -> 07:22.960] to go into town, it was in Halifax at the time,
[07:22.960 -> 07:24.280] and come back with the shopping,
[07:24.280 -> 07:27.140] and she's four foot eight, my and she's carrying like, you know
[07:27.140 -> 07:32.360] The week's food in carrier bags with three kids including a baby on the bus
[07:33.420 -> 07:38.620] And then in the evening, she'd work as a barmaid to earn enough money to keep
[07:39.300 -> 07:44.100] You know food on the table, you know, there's not always enough and we got cut off
[07:44.100 -> 07:47.520] I remember back then a guy with a wrench would turn up
[07:47.520 -> 07:50.280] to cut off your gas, a water bill.
[07:50.280 -> 07:52.760] And you know, mum was just too scared to open it.
[07:52.760 -> 07:54.440] And I remember opening it as a sort of-
[07:54.440 -> 07:56.480] How old were you when you were opening these bills?
[07:56.480 -> 07:57.400] I was about 11.
[07:58.760 -> 07:59.920] And it was a court summons.
[07:59.920 -> 08:01.960] And you suddenly realize how those processes work
[08:01.960 -> 08:03.440] from that end.
[08:03.440 -> 08:06.640] Now, my mum worked unbelievably hard. She'd not only did all that
[08:06.640 -> 08:13.160] She then got a degree and got a job in teaching and and and eventually like, you know turned our family's prospects around
[08:13.360 -> 08:15.920] but the resilience we learned then and
[08:16.440 -> 08:18.840] The impact of the hard work, you know
[08:19.320 -> 08:24.120] She did like bring up the kids then working in a bar studying the sort of law and then by the way
[08:24.120 -> 08:25.200] She was out campaigning for the cause of she believed in anyone who thinks studying this sort of lot. And then by the way, she was out campaigning
[08:25.200 -> 08:27.240] for the causes she believed in.
[08:27.240 -> 08:28.480] Anyone who thinks they're busy,
[08:28.480 -> 08:30.040] I guess that's my mum's version.
[08:30.040 -> 08:32.160] And at the other end, you've got people like Elon Musk,
[08:32.160 -> 08:33.600] not only building the company
[08:33.600 -> 08:36.240] that is making the electric car revolution
[08:36.240 -> 08:39.100] a reality globally, but also by the way,
[08:39.100 -> 08:40.280] doing reusable rockets.
[08:40.280 -> 08:42.760] And then as a sideline, space-based internet,
[08:42.760 -> 08:45.880] oh, and by the way, you know the the tunnels for
[08:46.720 -> 08:54.360] Hyperleap and travel, you know, I think we've all got capacity to achieve and do far more than we realize
[08:54.840 -> 08:57.720] But for me, there's two very different role models there
[08:57.960 -> 09:05.800] So one of our favorite questions Greg is to ask our interviewees the question
[09:03.120 -> 09:08.040] of what goes from your childhood still
[09:05.800 -> 09:09.160] rattle around your adult body and some of
[09:08.040 -> 09:11.400] those experiences you've just
[09:09.160 -> 09:13.440] described of opening that court
[09:11.400 -> 09:15.680] summons and seeing your mum struggling
[09:13.440 -> 09:19.320] with three of you have obviously had
[09:15.680 -> 09:22.520] quite a significant effect. What lessons
[09:19.320 -> 09:24.440] did you learn at that young age that you
[09:22.520 -> 09:26.040] would still recognize today as the CEO of Octopus?
[09:26.040 -> 09:31.000] I have a real fear of not working as hard as is possible.
[09:31.000 -> 09:35.920] What my mum used to say was there's never a moment to relax, it was just relentless.
[09:35.920 -> 09:38.640] And I think for me, I have that.
[09:38.640 -> 09:43.480] I was at dinner at a relative's house and we'd just finished dinner and I got my laptop
[09:43.480 -> 09:48.640] out and he said, surelyre's some else can do that I was like maybe but if some
[09:48.640 -> 09:52.160] else did this I just do the next thing on the list you know and it's that kind
[09:52.160 -> 09:57.520] of relentless need to be working towards something whether it be by the way it
[09:57.520 -> 10:02.280] could be business it can be something involuntary or whatever but yeah that
[10:02.280 -> 10:08.000] that is huge. And I know you've got two children from a previous partner.
[10:08.000 -> 10:11.000] How hard is it to have a relationship with them,
[10:11.000 -> 10:13.000] or even to sustain a relationship with a partner
[10:13.000 -> 10:15.000] when you have this mindset?
[10:15.000 -> 10:17.000] Because I think young people are growing up in a world, Greg,
[10:17.000 -> 10:20.000] where they're told, be relentless, give it everything,
[10:20.000 -> 10:23.000] make every sacrifice, go out there and be successful.
[10:23.000 -> 10:25.500] But we also have to have the conversation that
[10:25.500 -> 10:26.980] if that is the mindset,
[10:26.980 -> 10:29.100] then there is collateral damage, isn't there?
[10:29.100 -> 10:31.380] So I think it's incredibly important.
[10:31.380 -> 10:33.140] One of the ghosts of my childhood actually is,
[10:33.140 -> 10:34.660] you know, my dad wasn't there
[10:34.660 -> 10:36.340] and I never want to be that for my boys.
[10:36.340 -> 10:38.340] So even though I'm not there with their mums,
[10:38.340 -> 10:41.200] I have them 40% of the time.
[10:41.200 -> 10:43.660] I leave work early on a Wednesday
[10:43.660 -> 10:44.860] to pick the youngest one from school
[10:44.860 -> 10:45.600] and spend the evening with them. And on on a Wednesday to pick the youngest one from school and spend
[10:45.600 -> 10:50.960] the evening with them and on Tuesday to spend time with the eldest one and to be present
[10:50.960 -> 10:55.520] and then every other weekend and I try to be present the whole time. Now actually as
[10:55.520 -> 10:59.360] we're going through the energy crisis sometimes some of the discipline there is harder to
[10:59.360 -> 11:05.280] maintain so I have to talk to the sort of stakeholders when I've got the boys, but you know,
[11:05.280 -> 11:08.000] I'll be there cooking for them to show,
[11:08.000 -> 11:11.040] to do something for them while chatting with them
[11:11.040 -> 11:13.800] whilst having really important conversations.
[11:13.800 -> 11:15.180] But I'm exposing them to that
[11:15.180 -> 11:17.360] so that at least what I'm not doing is not,
[11:17.360 -> 11:19.620] even if I can't be dealing with them,
[11:19.620 -> 11:23.000] I'm thinking of them and making it part of their world.
[11:23.000 -> 11:29.920] But that is absolutely religious for me. And in terms of, you know, kind of their world. But that is absolutely religious for me and in terms of you know kind of how I feel about that my ex-partner the
[11:29.920 -> 11:35.460] mother of one of them she said to me what do you want for our son what what
[11:35.460 -> 11:39.400] characteristic do you want I said I wanted to be happy and confident and she
[11:39.400 -> 11:43.060] said what about a drive don't you want to drive I said no I've got drive and
[11:43.060 -> 11:48.300] I'm not sure it's always good for you And I really mean that you know, and I think look if you've got drive make the most of it
[11:48.800 -> 11:50.800] But actually we shouldn't wish
[11:51.040 -> 11:54.480] Some of these things on others, you know balance is something will make people happy
[11:54.580 -> 12:00.760] But then one of the things that I've observed with people that may be come from more straight and circumstances
[12:00.760 -> 12:08.040] Like you described is that as they go into their adult life that
[12:04.600 -> 12:09.880] drive is often the factor that that makes
[12:08.040 -> 12:12.840] them hungry even when they're going food
[12:09.880 -> 12:14.120] shopping. So enough is never enough, you
[12:12.840 -> 12:16.720] know, they almost don't know where the
[12:14.120 -> 12:18.760] limit is because they've experienced that
[12:16.720 -> 12:21.120] need and that want. What lessons have you
[12:18.760 -> 12:23.440] learned Greg about being able to set
[12:21.120 -> 12:26.520] targets where where you know that enough is
[12:23.440 -> 12:27.600] enough? First of all, for me, it's not about acquisition.
[12:27.600 -> 12:30.000] I learnt right and wrong very early,
[12:30.000 -> 12:34.400] at least the version of right and wrong that my mum believed in.
[12:34.400 -> 12:40.000] And questing for what's right is more important to me than questing for more.
[12:40.000 -> 12:41.600] So, for example, in our business, right,
[12:41.600 -> 12:45.080] there are decisions we could make that would be far more profitable,
[12:45.080 -> 12:47.460] at least in the short term, maybe in the long term,
[12:47.460 -> 12:50.500] but that I don't think are right.
[12:50.500 -> 12:52.700] And so actually for me, that is enough enough
[12:52.700 -> 12:55.420] isn't about personal acquisition,
[12:55.420 -> 12:59.460] it's about the mission that I'm privileged to lead.
[12:59.460 -> 13:00.860] Although I've got to say, like, you know,
[13:00.860 -> 13:03.460] within that mission, I find it very hard to stop.
[13:03.460 -> 13:09.240] I've got the opportunity to lead something at scale that can make the world better. And it feels like
[13:09.240 -> 13:14.520] a sort of a responsibility. And it's really hard to weigh that against what you do for
[13:14.520 -> 13:19.520] yourself. And that's why I think the one, the red line for me is my boys. And that was
[13:19.520 -> 13:24.880] a decision I made like nothing breaks that red line, but everything else is, is, is a
[13:24.880 -> 13:25.520] trade off. I made like nothing breaks that red line, but everything else is a trade-off.
[13:25.520 -> 13:29.960] And I wonder whether this has a lot to do with your mum as well because you know, you
[13:29.960 -> 13:34.320] said that she fought for the causes that she believed in and you obviously are fighting
[13:34.320 -> 13:36.840] as well with Octopus for a cause that you believe in.
[13:36.840 -> 13:41.680] I don't want to guess on your net worth, right, but you own a chunk of a business that is
[13:41.680 -> 13:49.760] turning over billions of pounds, right, your net worth is probably in the hundreds of millions. Does it not even slightly dampen the desire when
[13:49.760 -> 13:54.520] you have that amount of money potentially coming your way at some point or not? Is the
[13:54.520 -> 13:57.640] desire to have an impact there as much as ever? Because I feel that people are living
[13:57.640 -> 14:01.240] their lives going, as soon as I get a million pounds in the bank, then I can take my foot
[14:01.240 -> 14:06.860] off the gas. As soon as I get that promotion, I can relax. But you're talking in a way that that's that's not necessarily the way
[14:06.860 -> 14:10.080] that your brain or lots of brains work. Yeah, first I'm lucky enough that
[14:10.080 -> 14:15.200] previous businesses meant, you know, there's a degree of comfort anyway
[14:15.200 -> 14:21.600] regardless of octopus. With octopus there's definitely a very large paper
[14:21.600 -> 14:25.800] net worth but the reality for me is, you know, when we hit the energy crisis,
[14:25.800 -> 14:28.680] I reduced my salary to minimum wage
[14:28.680 -> 14:32.120] because I wanted to make sure that I would contribute
[14:32.120 -> 14:36.260] to our staff welfare and to our customer funds,
[14:36.260 -> 14:38.800] you know, during this tough period.
[14:38.800 -> 14:41.440] You know, thinking about stuff like that
[14:41.440 -> 14:43.200] still matters to me a lot.
[14:43.200 -> 14:45.200] But when it comes to what motivates me,
[14:45.200 -> 14:50.040] that potential wealth is pretty unimportant.
[14:50.040 -> 14:51.840] I find that when I get demotivated,
[14:51.840 -> 14:53.640] it's because we can't deliver our mission.
[14:53.640 -> 14:56.480] So, there are times when, for example,
[14:56.480 -> 14:59.240] there might be a new government policy
[14:59.240 -> 15:01.800] or a regulatory scenario that makes it harder
[15:01.800 -> 15:03.960] to do what we believe in.
[15:03.960 -> 15:06.080] And they're the times I think like, you know,
[15:06.080 -> 15:07.120] is it worth it?
[15:07.120 -> 15:09.480] It's never about, certainly for me,
[15:09.480 -> 15:11.720] it's literally never about the money.
[15:11.720 -> 15:14.080] The people in the business, the relationships we have,
[15:14.080 -> 15:16.040] what we do for customers and what we do
[15:16.040 -> 15:18.080] for driving the energy revolution
[15:18.080 -> 15:20.160] are all of the motivation.
[15:20.160 -> 15:21.640] I bet why, you mentioned,
[15:21.640 -> 15:23.120] obviously we can talk about sport, right?
[15:23.120 -> 15:26.000] I can't, not many footballers are motivated by the salary.
[15:26.000 -> 15:29.000] I hear people saying like, but he's paid this much, why can't he play harder?
[15:29.000 -> 15:32.000] He's motivated by winning, he's motivated by being a hero,
[15:32.000 -> 15:35.000] he's motivated by that perfect play.
[15:35.000 -> 15:37.000] It's the business equivalent, you know?
[15:37.000 -> 15:40.000] Listening to you there, Greg, it seems like two skill sets
[15:40.000 -> 15:42.000] that I'm intrigued to find out more about.
[15:42.000 -> 15:44.000] One is keeping your feet on the ground,
[15:44.000 -> 15:46.280] so you can sort of relate to your team
[15:46.280 -> 15:48.000] and to your customers.
[15:48.000 -> 15:49.720] But you've also got to keep your head in the clouds
[15:49.720 -> 15:52.440] a little bit to be able to set the sense of direction
[15:52.440 -> 15:54.200] and know which way the winds are blowing
[15:54.200 -> 15:56.640] to keep that mission on track.
[15:56.640 -> 15:58.960] So how do you combine those two,
[15:58.960 -> 16:01.400] what can seem like disparate skills?
[16:01.400 -> 16:10.880] First of all, I think on that one about the mission, I think one of the hard things about being an entrepreneur is you have to do stuff that people say won't work.
[16:11.360 -> 16:15.420] People say, oh take advice from this person. You know, they used to run such and such a big company.
[16:15.420 -> 16:17.220] Of course, you should listen to them.
[16:17.220 -> 16:23.560] But ultimately if you want to do stuff to move the boundaries to build a business that is
[16:23.780 -> 16:25.360] driving the change we need,
[16:25.360 -> 16:29.720] a lot of what you do is the opposite of what other people will tell you.
[16:29.720 -> 16:33.120] And that's really difficult because sometimes you're going to be wrong.
[16:33.120 -> 16:35.480] So this isn't stubbornness, it's not pig-headedness.
[16:35.480 -> 16:39.440] But actually, and you know, I mentioned Elon Musk earlier, so I'll just mention him again.
[16:39.440 -> 16:43.160] He spent a decade with every major car manufacturer in the world,
[16:43.160 -> 16:49.000] and a lot of the press and a lot of the financiers saying this is lunacy and now he gets invited, like every government
[16:49.000 -> 16:53.760] is fawning over him to get him to come and build a factory in their country and the entire
[16:53.760 -> 17:00.480] global car fleet is going through a very rapid electrification because he had the confidence
[17:00.480 -> 17:04.720] or the drive and he'd done the work to believe in what he was going to do.
[17:04.720 -> 17:09.440] And I think in that bit about staying grounded, for example, in our office, it's all open
[17:09.440 -> 17:14.320] plan. I sit with the team. The world provides lots of opportunities for people in positions
[17:14.320 -> 17:19.400] of authority to pretend they're different, to pretend to themselves or pretend to everyone
[17:19.400 -> 17:24.800] else. So, you know, the massive mahogany desk and sort of, you know, the biggest office
[17:24.800 -> 17:28.160] in the building and a chauffeur and all that stuff, right?
[17:28.160 -> 17:29.400] Some of it kind of makes sense.
[17:29.400 -> 17:31.880] You need a bit of privacy still as you're a serious meeting.
[17:31.880 -> 17:33.880] You know, sometimes you haven't got time
[17:33.880 -> 17:35.400] to do all the calls and get public transport.
[17:35.400 -> 17:36.720] You go in the back of a car.
[17:36.720 -> 17:40.760] But all of that, if you do it in the way
[17:40.760 -> 17:42.800] that is about creating a distance
[17:42.800 -> 17:44.600] and a privilege from normality,
[17:44.600 -> 17:47.560] I think you very quickly lose your feet on the ground.
[17:47.560 -> 17:50.600] So for me, I kind of resist all those symbols.
[17:50.600 -> 17:52.800] I say to people by the way, never fall for them.
[17:52.800 -> 17:57.280] So you know, if you're going to meet a senior business person, you know, their big mahogany
[17:57.280 -> 18:02.680] desk is designed to create a sort of a power play between the two of you.
[18:02.680 -> 18:03.680] Forget it.
[18:03.680 -> 18:04.680] They're just a normal person.
[18:04.680 -> 18:07.680] They go to the toilet just like you do. They get hungry like you do, we're all the same.
[18:07.680 -> 18:12.280] And look, this interview, if I was to just describe you to people, Greg, you're in a
[18:12.280 -> 18:16.320] very relaxed grey t-shirt, you know, your hair is kind of like, I wouldn't say scruffy,
[18:16.320 -> 18:21.200] but it's not been worked on to look perfect in the sort of corporate setting that you
[18:21.200 -> 18:26.000] exist. Is there any part of you that has ever succumbed to
[18:26.000 -> 18:30.120] being like, oh, I better put a shirt and tie on, I better make sure I've got a nice side
[18:30.120 -> 18:34.960] parting so that I look and act and seem like every other CEO, because you will go for meetings
[18:34.960 -> 18:38.840] with other CEOs and you will, by default, look different.
[18:38.840 -> 18:45.000] You know what, it's a good question because I think, for me, authenticity is so important.
[18:46.400 -> 18:50.560] And what a lot of the kind of corporate presentation about
[18:50.560 -> 18:53.720] is about trying to look like something else.
[18:53.720 -> 18:55.440] By the way, someone's comfortable in a shirt and tie,
[18:55.440 -> 18:57.040] that's fantastic.
[18:57.040 -> 19:02.040] But for me, I'll go as far as I can by being authentic.
[19:02.960 -> 19:06.040] And part of that then, for example,
[19:06.040 -> 19:07.600] yeah, where do I draw the line?
[19:07.600 -> 19:10.440] So I was appearing before a common select committee
[19:10.440 -> 19:11.280] and I was saying to our team,
[19:11.280 -> 19:14.240] look, is it okay to wear jeans and t-shirt?
[19:14.240 -> 19:15.800] Will they boot me out?
[19:15.800 -> 19:18.360] Or is it too disrespectful?
[19:18.360 -> 19:21.180] And we agreed that putting a jacket over the t-shirt
[19:21.180 -> 19:22.080] made it okay, right?
[19:22.080 -> 19:24.760] So, and I didn't even wear a shirt sometimes,
[19:24.760 -> 19:26.500] draw the line at a tie, right?
[19:26.500 -> 19:28.400] But I think, and I know this sounds like,
[19:28.400 -> 19:30.280] you know, potentially this is quite small stuff,
[19:30.280 -> 19:33.660] but part of it is about trying to create a world
[19:33.660 -> 19:35.640] where we are more equal,
[19:35.640 -> 19:37.080] and we're more able to have a conversation
[19:37.080 -> 19:38.520] about the person we really are
[19:38.520 -> 19:40.400] and who we're bringing to the table.
[19:40.400 -> 19:44.680] Because I think, you know, all of those power dynamics,
[19:44.680 -> 19:47.040] some of which are obvious and some of which are hidden,
[19:47.040 -> 19:50.720] they really reduce the confidence of people
[19:50.720 -> 19:52.720] who are new in the room or, you know,
[19:52.720 -> 19:54.680] people who didn't go to the right school, right?
[19:54.680 -> 19:56.200] If you didn't go to the right school
[19:56.200 -> 19:59.080] and you don't know what manufacturer shirt
[19:59.080 -> 20:01.320] that all the other people in the office are wearing,
[20:01.320 -> 20:02.760] it's one of the barriers to social mobility,
[20:02.760 -> 20:04.440] but it's also a barrier to progress and growth
[20:04.440 -> 20:07.840] and innovation in our society. The other thing by the way is, you
[20:07.840 -> 20:12.360] know, you get to Silicon Valley, you probably wouldn't be letting if you did wear a tie.
[20:12.360 -> 20:16.420] So that wisdom that you've acquired seems pretty hard won. Have there ever been times
[20:16.420 -> 20:22.980] where you feel like you've been less than true to yourself or you've lacked that integrity?
[20:22.980 -> 20:25.600] You know what, one of the best moments in
[20:25.600 -> 20:30.080] this business was when I'm on one of my close colleagues pulled me aside and she
[20:30.080 -> 20:36.840] said look Greg you're not being yourself in fact frankly you know you're not
[20:36.840 -> 20:40.980] you're not being a decent person you're not acting with integrity and very
[20:40.980 -> 20:48.400] briefly what happened was I'd started to be a bit dismissive of one or two things that people said and she said look
[20:48.400 -> 20:50.400] That's not that's not the Greg that I
[20:50.680 -> 20:53.100] Love working with and not the one that I joined to work with
[20:53.360 -> 20:58.020] and I can't tell you how grateful I was for that feedback because I hadn't really noticed it happening and
[20:58.800 -> 21:01.800] Yes, I think that made me more conscious
[21:02.480 -> 21:07.560] I've been true to myself rather than kind of living up to
[21:07.560 -> 21:12.520] a stereotype. Could you notice that you'd sort of lost yourself a bit or not? No, it
[21:12.520 -> 21:15.120] was when she said it and she pointed out some example, and by one thing for
[21:15.120 -> 21:18.320] everyone, when you're giving feedback you should always give examples because then
[21:18.320 -> 21:22.360] people can relate to it. She just said when you did that thing and she was
[21:22.360 -> 21:25.440] right. It's such a powerful thing when
[21:25.440 -> 21:30.160] someone you respect and someone you know respects and likes you puts you right
[21:30.160 -> 21:34.480] can you tell us what you did with the information yeah I mean I immediately
[21:34.480 -> 21:39.840] every time I was talking with people was reminding myself of what I'm how I've
[21:39.840 -> 21:44.080] always been in the past what I'm like and I think that improved it and and you
[21:44.080 -> 21:48.240] know what it's one of those things it just becomes a habit so I hope it was a temporary aberration.
[21:48.240 -> 21:53.040] Another thing that stands out for me Gregor listening to you is that your language is
[21:53.040 -> 21:57.920] very accessible and yet when you were talking about dress codes before I often think that
[21:57.920 -> 22:02.480] language is a good indicator of it can either be inclusive or it can exclude people from
[22:02.480 -> 22:06.840] the club so using jargon or using sort of business speak,
[22:06.840 -> 22:08.720] reminds you that if you don't understand it,
[22:08.720 -> 22:11.280] you're not in the club, you don't deserve to be in it.
[22:11.280 -> 22:12.540] I'm interested in terms of,
[22:12.540 -> 22:14.680] you obviously seem to have mastered the skill
[22:14.680 -> 22:16.400] of making your language accessible.
[22:16.400 -> 22:17.840] How have you done that?
[22:17.840 -> 22:19.840] I think it's a bit like the dressing actually,
[22:19.840 -> 22:24.840] which is, it's a reaction against the use of language
[22:29.680 -> 22:35.440] as a sort of barrier, that it creates a club. Sometimes some of the terms that sound like jargon in any sector are useful shortcuts
[22:35.440 -> 22:41.200] when you're in it. But our job here is, everyone in Britain's got to use the product we sell,
[22:41.200 -> 22:45.600] energy. In fact, everyone in the developed world, and hopefully one day we'll get to the developing world
[22:45.600 -> 22:46.800] as well.
[22:46.800 -> 22:50.040] And they've been excluded from it in a way.
[22:50.040 -> 22:51.600] Most energy companies, their strategy
[22:51.600 -> 22:54.920] was pretend we don't exist, keep sending the bills,
[22:54.920 -> 22:56.400] and hope we get paid.
[22:56.400 -> 23:00.800] But actually, we've created this massive pink, purple,
[23:00.800 -> 23:02.920] I don't really know, out there brand
[23:02.920 -> 23:06.060] because we want to be loud and proud about how energy can make the world better
[23:06.060 -> 23:08.660] and what we can do as part of that.
[23:08.660 -> 23:10.440] If I'm going to do that, I've got to speak in a way
[23:10.440 -> 23:12.580] that is meaningful to people.
[23:12.580 -> 23:13.780] But the same goes with teams.
[23:13.780 -> 23:16.700] Like, you can recruit incredibly talented people
[23:16.700 -> 23:18.380] who've come through different routes.
[23:18.380 -> 23:20.820] And if you're using that exclusive language,
[23:20.820 -> 23:23.340] the NBA or whatever it might be,
[23:23.340 -> 23:25.000] you're not going to get the best out of that
[23:25.000 -> 23:28.280] talent. And I guess the last bit for me, I bet we've all been in meetings where at some
[23:28.280 -> 23:31.440] point halfway through the meeting, someone asks a question that reveals that everyone
[23:31.440 -> 23:36.600] in the meeting didn't actually realize what we're talking about. How can smart people
[23:36.600 -> 23:41.480] with positions of authority wasting all that matter? And thank goodness we sometimes find
[23:41.480 -> 23:46.240] that happens. There'll be times it happens, we don't even know it. So using straightforward language,
[23:46.240 -> 23:48.160] I think is incredibly important for the way we talk
[23:48.160 -> 23:50.760] to customers, you know, to politicians,
[23:50.760 -> 23:54.720] to the media, to each other, to recruits, yeah.
[23:54.720 -> 23:56.920] That is a good reminder though, isn't it, Greg,
[23:56.920 -> 23:58.240] that people look at you and assume,
[23:58.240 -> 23:59.760] well, if you're the CEO of a business like that
[23:59.760 -> 24:01.360] and you've had previous business successes,
[24:01.360 -> 24:03.480] you must know exactly what you're doing.
[24:03.480 -> 24:07.280] The reason why you sometimes find yourself in a room where everyone finally admits they
[24:07.280 -> 24:11.240] haven't got a clue what's being discussed is because we all have imposter syndrome,
[24:11.240 -> 24:14.160] we're all worried about being vulnerable, and none of us want to be the first one to
[24:14.160 -> 24:18.140] put our hands up and utter the famous words, I don't know.
[24:18.140 -> 24:23.440] So what do you do to go about making sure that Octopus is a vulnerable place to work
[24:23.440 -> 24:25.400] and that people can be totally honest
[24:25.400 -> 24:26.960] if they don't know.
[24:26.960 -> 24:31.720] Yeah, so one of my favourite things is the way that we deal with issues on social media.
[24:31.720 -> 24:35.840] Customers raise issues with us all the time on Twitter and Facebook in particular.
[24:35.840 -> 24:41.600] And I think, you know, the way we respond to those, if we screwed up, we just go, you
[24:41.600 -> 24:46.880] know, yikes, looks like we screwed up. I'll get a boffin on it or whatever
[24:46.880 -> 24:54.160] it will be. And really, you know, starting with that kind of thing that is, it's much easier to
[24:54.160 -> 24:59.200] live your life when you admit those flaws than when you try and cover them up. It's a slight
[24:59.200 -> 25:07.600] segue, but someone I once worked with, a brilliant guy, Nick Gill Nick Geller He said never tell a lie because you have to remember every one of them forever
[25:07.600 -> 25:12.160] And I think that so in a way like the vulnerable thing is a bit like that, isn't it?
[25:12.160 -> 25:17.200] Which is everything you're covering up. You have to cover up everywhere. So authenticity is a really big thing for you, isn't it?
[25:17.200 -> 25:17.580] Yeah
[25:17.580 -> 25:19.880] I think it is because I think a lot of time large
[25:20.000 -> 25:24.920] Companies have got this long history when some of the stuff they've done was right and some was wrong and if you've always covered up
[25:25.240 -> 25:26.660] What was wrong?
[25:26.660 -> 25:28.660] You're narrowing down
[25:29.280 -> 25:34.480] Massively narrowing down what you can say you understand what we can't say that because we once did this we can't say that someone said that
[25:34.480 -> 25:37.160] we're actually if you're able to be
[25:37.960 -> 25:42.760] Authentic and say yeah, we said that actually that might not been right or we said that but the world's changed
[25:43.360 -> 25:48.240] We said that there's new information We did that thing and now we're going to put it right. That
[25:48.240 -> 25:49.240] really matters.
[25:49.240 -> 25:53.520] So I'll tell you what, a massive strategic version for me, right? About 18 months ago,
[25:53.520 -> 25:57.640] I sat there and I was thinking, you know what, we're meant to be a green energy company and
[25:57.640 -> 26:01.280] yet we sell a billion pounds a year of gas. And by the way, today that might be three
[26:01.280 -> 26:06.520] or four, maybe three billion pounds of gas. The reality is we are responsible for selling
[26:06.520 -> 26:11.520] a massive amount of carbon-emitting pollution, right?
[26:11.760 -> 26:13.680] And yet we're meant to be a green energy company.
[26:13.680 -> 26:14.720] What should we do about that?
[26:14.720 -> 26:17.560] And I had a crisis moment, and I was thinking,
[26:17.560 -> 26:20.060] you know, should we just stop selling gas?
[26:20.060 -> 26:22.820] But we can't do that, because our customers still need it.
[26:22.820 -> 26:24.920] And if we force them to buy it elsewhere,
[26:24.920 -> 26:29.000] it'd reduce our ability to drive change. So what we've got to do is we've got to be honest though
[26:29.120 -> 26:31.120] That selling gas is a bad thing
[26:31.600 -> 26:35.360] Today, it's a necessary evil and we've got to create a future in which gas isn't necessary
[26:35.360 -> 26:36.160] and
[26:36.160 -> 26:42.400] that's when we did all the work to identify that for example electric heat pumps are likely to be the future of decarbonized heating and
[26:42.680 -> 26:47.100] Then that let us say right we're gonna invest 10 million quid in developing the technology,
[26:47.100 -> 26:50.600] building a training center, and driving that change.
[26:50.600 -> 26:54.120] But really, that came from the admission to ourselves
[26:54.120 -> 26:56.480] that we were doing something that we couldn't be proud of.
[26:56.480 -> 26:58.080] When I'm listening to you speak, Greg,
[26:58.080 -> 26:59.760] I'm reminded of that model that I
[26:59.760 -> 27:02.400] think it was quoted in the Harvard Review years ago of,
[27:02.400 -> 27:08.000] like, a lot of people feel that they're almost hostages. And I think the energy company is, from a consumer, yn ystod yr arlywydd ym Mhrydain, mae'n dweud bod y rhai o bobl yn teimlo eu bod yn nirfeydd, ac rwy'n credu bod y cyfrifolwyr yn ymwneud â'r
[27:08.000 -> 27:12.000] nirfeydd, fel y dywedoddwch, dydych chi ddim yn gweld nhw, dyma eich
[27:12.000 -> 27:16.000] pwyllgor bob cyfartal, ac rydych chi'n ceisio gwneud,
[27:16.000 -> 27:20.000] ar y pwyllgor arall, arwainwyr, bobl sy'n ddiddorol o fod yn gyfathrebu gyda
[27:20.000 -> 27:24.000] chi ac yn gwybod y misiwn y byddwch chi'n ei wneud. Pa fathau yw'r rhai
[27:24.000 -> 27:26.320] a ddysguwch yn ceisio cymryd eich cyflogwyr o'r mynedd arwainwyr and recognize the mission that you're on. What lessons have you learned in trying to take your customers
[27:26.320 -> 27:31.320] from that hostage mindset to that apostle advocate mindset?
[27:31.400 -> 27:34.560] I think the first one is when we set out to do this,
[27:34.560 -> 27:38.120] a lot of people said to us, it was wrong-headed,
[27:38.120 -> 27:40.320] that customers didn't care who their energy company was,
[27:40.320 -> 27:43.400] they never would care, they just want the lights to come on.
[27:43.400 -> 27:47.820] But actually, you know, our view was we think it's just because no one's tried to get
[27:47.820 -> 27:51.940] them to care. It doesn't suit you if your business model is basically inherited a
[27:51.940 -> 27:56.900] bunch of companies at privatization and you want to keep charging them the most
[27:56.900 -> 28:01.740] you can do without causing problems. And I think it took a real leap of faith
[28:01.740 -> 28:06.800] because everything in our business model requires that we were correct there.
[28:06.800 -> 28:12.880] You know, the fact that, for example, we can charge a lower price, a sustainable long-term price,
[28:12.880 -> 28:17.640] requires us not to lose customers as much as other companies do, which means we've got a close relation.
[28:17.640 -> 28:25.760] But the belief that customers can use energy differently is critical to a cheap renewable world
[28:25.760 -> 28:29.320] because a lot of people worry that with wind and solar when it's not windy and
[28:29.320 -> 28:32.980] not sunny we've got no energy but we need to flip down its head and say when
[28:32.980 -> 28:38.900] it is windy and when it is sunny we've got abundant cheap super cheap clean
[28:38.900 -> 28:42.660] energy so how can we make the most of it at those times which by the way means
[28:42.660 -> 28:47.640] having electric car with an intelligent charger, having an electric heating system that's kind of grid aware,
[28:47.640 -> 28:54.440] that sort of thing. We had to sort of show that customers can care about energy. It doesn't
[28:54.440 -> 28:58.080] mean they have to be a geek about it, it just means that they can know that an energy company
[28:58.080 -> 29:01.520] is going to look after them, and they know that if there's a problem they can phone us
[29:01.520 -> 29:04.640] up and we'll look after them, you know, that sort of thing, right? And so I guess what
[29:04.640 -> 29:06.400] we had to do was drive that change
[29:06.400 -> 29:07.680] for everything else to work.
[29:07.680 -> 29:09.400] So how did you go about doing that then?
[29:09.400 -> 29:11.800] Because I can imagine there's a lot of cynicism
[29:11.800 -> 29:14.760] or of even skepticism of, well, you know,
[29:14.760 -> 29:17.800] this has never been tried before, so why would it work now?
[29:17.800 -> 29:20.000] How did you almost keep your resolve
[29:20.000 -> 29:22.480] in the face of that kind of cynicism?
[29:22.480 -> 29:23.600] Well, the first thing is,
[29:23.600 -> 29:27.840] sort of one of our founding team is our creative director.
[29:27.840 -> 29:29.240] This guy called Pete Miller,
[29:29.240 -> 29:31.200] I worked with him in a previous business.
[29:31.200 -> 29:34.160] He's the loveliest guy, but he's unbelievably smart
[29:34.160 -> 29:36.200] and really understands how people,
[29:36.200 -> 29:39.440] the fundamental ways in which people think and behave.
[29:39.440 -> 29:42.440] And Pete was able to start thinking about like,
[29:42.440 -> 29:44.880] what are the things that cause distrust or disinterest
[29:44.880 -> 29:48.660] in a sector like this? And then what do we need to do differently to
[29:48.660 -> 29:53.120] change that? Now, I don't know any other company that's got a creative director, but, you know,
[29:53.120 -> 29:58.120] the sort of thing we would do would be, when you sign up, you get an email from me. And
[29:58.120 -> 30:01.660] if you reply to it, it comes to me. And up to a million customers, I dealt with every
[30:01.660 -> 30:07.800] single one that came to me. Even when I was on holiday, you know, every night, about midnight, I'd switch on my computer and deal with all the emails that come to me million customers, I dealt with every single one that came to me. Even when I was on holiday, every night, about midnight, I'd switch on my computer and deal with all the
[30:07.800 -> 30:11.080] emails that come to me from customers. I think that went on to about one and a half million
[30:11.080 -> 30:15.080] customers. It's the kind of thing that there's no emails that come from a no reply. Your
[30:15.080 -> 30:19.040] bill, you can reply to. If you don't like your bill, hit reply. And lots of proof points
[30:19.040 -> 30:24.720] like that, that are not just visible, but that change the way things work for you.
[30:24.720 -> 30:27.800] Dancy will lend people infrared cameras for free that plug into their visible, but that change the way things work for you. Dan said we'll lend people infrared cameras for free
[30:27.800 -> 30:28.820] that plug into their phone,
[30:28.820 -> 30:30.760] so they can find out where there's drafts
[30:30.760 -> 30:32.240] and leaks in their homes.
[30:32.240 -> 30:33.720] Tell you what we did this winter.
[30:33.720 -> 30:35.520] I was coming home from work one night,
[30:35.520 -> 30:37.200] and it was bitterly cold,
[30:37.200 -> 30:38.400] and we're in an energy crisis.
[30:38.400 -> 30:39.760] I was thinking there were gonna be,
[30:39.760 -> 30:42.800] forgive me for this, but old ladies sitting there,
[30:42.800 -> 30:45.960] scared to put their heating on in a cold home.
[30:45.960 -> 30:50.200] And some of them will be my customers. I remember there was a PhD engineer that I was talking
[30:50.200 -> 30:54.440] to who said, look, it takes 30 times less energy or something to heat a person than
[30:54.440 -> 31:00.560] it is to just to heat a whole home. And so I phoned up our marketing director. I said,
[31:00.560 -> 31:07.800] look, can we get hold of some electric blankets? And when people are scared about their bills, send them electric blankets so at least they can stay warm.
[31:07.800 -> 31:09.160] I wish we could do something about the bills.
[31:09.160 -> 31:10.680] That's a global crisis,
[31:10.680 -> 31:13.280] but we can do something about the person.
[31:13.280 -> 31:17.320] And she literally bought 5,000 electric blankets next day.
[31:17.320 -> 31:19.480] And when people, particularly those with mobility issues
[31:19.480 -> 31:21.000] are struggling, we sent them a blanket.
[31:21.000 -> 31:22.040] We didn't tell anyone.
[31:22.040 -> 31:23.680] It was just doing the right thing.
[31:23.680 -> 31:29.520] But someone posted it on social media and then it became sort of better known. It's the kind of thing
[31:29.520 -> 31:33.280] you worry about. Are you going to get criticised as an energy company because you haven't,
[31:33.280 -> 31:36.760] you know, prices are so high that people have to worry? Although honestly, there's nothing,
[31:36.760 -> 31:40.440] like literally we do everything we can on that. Or are people going to see that what
[31:40.440 -> 31:44.840] you're trying to do is help? And it was the latter. And it was actually really heartwarming
[31:44.840 -> 31:48.700] to see this reaction. And the reality is it costs 4p an hour to use an electric
[31:48.700 -> 31:55.440] blanket and about 4 pounds a day to heat a whole home. Now, you know, on average we found
[31:55.440 -> 32:00.920] people saving 300 quid a year on their engine once they got an electric blanket. So that
[32:00.920 -> 32:07.080] kind of thinking that says, you know, that we care about the person not about the molecule or the electron
[32:07.180 -> 32:09.180] so interesting and
[32:09.220 -> 32:14.860] Again, it comes back to you making sure that your core belief of doing the right thing is at the heart of your decisions
[32:14.860 -> 32:20.260] Because actually we can all think of certain media outlets that would love a story about an energy company given out
[32:21.060 -> 32:23.340] Electric blankets because they can go on wonderful
[32:23.340 -> 32:25.200] Let's do a big headline splash about
[32:25.200 -> 32:28.800] we can't heat your home but we can give you an electric blanket. But as long as you, and this
[32:28.800 -> 32:32.000] is a great lesson for everyone listening to this, as long as you are making a decision that in your
[32:32.000 -> 32:37.280] heart you know is the right thing, even if it gets criticised, well you're kind of insulated,
[32:37.280 -> 32:41.520] aren't you, from that criticism because of the fact you know you're doing the right thing,
[32:41.520 -> 32:46.880] or are you? I mean, when you get criticised or when Octopus criticised, and you know that you're trying to do the right thing,
[32:46.880 -> 32:50.960] how does it feel? You know what, I don't mind it too much with the media. And by the way,
[32:51.520 -> 32:58.240] I think everyone's got a job to do. Everyone's got a job to do. And I think, you know,
[32:58.240 -> 33:02.400] journalists are often, you know, they're right, they're trained to be cynical about the claims
[33:02.400 -> 33:08.160] companies make. So it's entirely reasonable that we, you know, don't get a free ride for just saying
[33:08.160 -> 33:11.560] we're nice people and everything, right? We have to demonstrate time and
[33:11.560 -> 33:14.880] time and time again and when we make a mistake it's fair enough to hold it up
[33:14.880 -> 33:18.200] and even sometimes when we've done the right thing it's understandable that
[33:18.200 -> 33:23.280] people will be cynical. I think the ones that hurt me are actually individual
[33:23.280 -> 33:26.400] customer things where, you know,
[33:26.400 -> 33:30.240] sometimes we've got it wrong and I look at what we've done and our team are brilliant,
[33:30.240 -> 33:31.240] but they're human.
[33:31.240 -> 33:35.200] They look after 30,000 customers a day or thereabouts with often incredibly difficult
[33:35.200 -> 33:36.520] situations.
[33:36.520 -> 33:38.520] And sometimes I'll get that wrong.
[33:38.520 -> 33:44.720] And sometimes people think we got it wrong as an act of malice and that is heart-wrenching.
[33:44.720 -> 33:45.240] And I think the other
[33:45.240 -> 33:51.820] one is, in social media or something, you'll see people who assume malice from the outset
[33:51.820 -> 33:57.200] before they actually look at what's happened. And I think sometimes that gets very personal.
[33:57.200 -> 34:01.220] I think I get upset when, and I don't get upset about it, but the ones that are most
[34:01.220 -> 34:08.040] likely to cause sort of that are the very personal ones, where we've either let someone down or assumed to have done so badly.
[34:08.040 -> 34:11.520] There's one thing that's quite interesting, so forgive me for this, but there's a phone
[34:11.520 -> 34:17.000] call we got from a customer where, actually I don't think we got it that wrong, but it
[34:17.000 -> 34:22.160] was clearly very upsetting. He said to the team member, does Greg Jackson still live
[34:22.160 -> 34:29.320] at, and then he read out my address. And then he went on to say because if he does and I have to go around there to sort it out
[34:29.920 -> 34:31.920] Do I have to disembowel his sons?
[34:31.920 -> 34:36.640] And and this was someone who kind of worked out where I lived and you that had a couple of sons
[34:36.640 -> 34:40.280] It was that was very personal. Oh my goodness. I mean, how did that make you fit?
[34:40.280 -> 34:44.240] I mean, that's that's scary stuff, right? It is like, you know, it's interesting
[34:44.240 -> 34:46.420] the team were like like should we talk to the police and I was
[34:46.420 -> 34:50.360] like actually looking at the case and understanding what happened I didn't
[34:50.360 -> 34:53.720] think it was really a credible death threat and I had to talk to my boys
[34:53.720 -> 34:57.340] about you know what might happen during the crisis you know during the energy
[34:57.340 -> 35:02.280] crisis there may be media attention and there may be yeah people in public may
[35:02.280 -> 35:05.280] say things to them people at school or whatever. And how old are your boys, Craig?
[35:05.280 -> 35:06.400] Five and 15.
[35:06.400 -> 35:10.120] And yeah, I kind of, I'd forgotten about the bit about them
[35:10.120 -> 35:12.060] in this recording.
[35:13.000 -> 35:15.440] And I played just an example,
[35:17.280 -> 35:18.520] to the 15 year old.
[35:18.520 -> 35:20.720] And I just said, look, you know, if there's ever anything,
[35:20.720 -> 35:23.540] and he said, honestly, dad, I go to school in London,
[35:23.540 -> 35:24.380] I'm not worried about that.
[35:24.380 -> 35:28.080] So it was a good funny moment at the end of what I thought was gonna be a
[35:28.080 -> 35:31.120] very serious conversation but there you go. And was there any part of you that
[35:31.120 -> 35:34.120] thought maybe the best thing is to pick up the phone just speak to this person
[35:34.120 -> 35:39.120] and explain that I am a real human being with real emotions and real sons and I'm
[35:39.120 -> 35:42.840] doing my best for them? Yeah you know I do sometimes do that and you know what
[35:42.840 -> 35:45.520] eight out of ten times you see someone being nasty on social media
[35:45.520 -> 35:47.880] about a company or about, in our case,
[35:47.880 -> 35:49.840] our company or our team,
[35:49.840 -> 35:53.280] when the team speak to them, they're lovely as pie.
[35:53.280 -> 35:55.480] And I think one of your recent guests
[35:55.480 -> 35:58.360] said you don't know what's going on in someone else's life.
[35:58.360 -> 36:00.200] You don't know what they're dealing with.
[36:00.200 -> 36:02.800] And I think that applies here.
[36:02.800 -> 36:05.820] We don't know what's going on in the lives of those people,
[36:05.820 -> 36:08.320] what's going on in their history and their background
[36:08.320 -> 36:10.780] that caused them to behave in that way.
[36:10.780 -> 36:14.020] But very often when we help them, it melts away.
[36:14.020 -> 36:15.300] Now there's a few, by the way,
[36:15.300 -> 36:17.800] who I think when we speak to them, it doesn't help.
[36:17.800 -> 36:19.540] And so on that one, I chose not to.
[36:19.540 -> 36:22.100] But what I was gonna say on the ones where,
[36:22.100 -> 36:23.300] you know, they can be very aggressive
[36:23.300 -> 36:24.820] in social media and quite nice.
[36:24.820 -> 36:27.400] A lot of time people are trained to be aggressive
[36:27.400 -> 36:28.920] in dealing with companies.
[36:28.920 -> 36:31.160] You know, you'll see a lot of kind of advocacy that says,
[36:31.160 -> 36:33.160] like, you know, go out there, tell the company,
[36:33.160 -> 36:34.440] tell them what, you know.
[36:34.440 -> 36:36.640] And so they've been trained to do it.
[36:36.640 -> 36:38.760] And maybe with some companies, it's the only way to behave.
[36:38.760 -> 36:41.240] I've certainly done my best to avoid losing my rag
[36:41.240 -> 36:44.000] with a couple of telephony providers, should we say.
[36:44.000 -> 36:50.360] So, you know, I, we can't hold against people that that's the only thing that's worked
[36:50.360 -> 36:51.360] elsewhere.
[36:51.360 -> 36:55.920] So Greg, can you tell us about, I'm interested in your business and I'll give you the example
[36:55.920 -> 37:01.020] of like for a long time, you know, Virgin was always associated with Richard Branson.
[37:01.020 -> 37:08.480] So the guy with the beard, the, you know, like not wearing shirts, and he became synonymous with the brand of the business.
[37:08.480 -> 37:12.800] And I'm interested in how you get your approach,
[37:12.800 -> 37:14.320] which is around empathy,
[37:14.320 -> 37:16.480] it's about having a clear sense of mission,
[37:16.480 -> 37:18.960] it's about being essentially decent and accessible.
[37:19.600 -> 37:23.200] How do you replicate that at all levels of your organization?
[37:23.200 -> 37:29.000] You've got 3000 staff working for you. I'm interested in that follower shape, how do you develop that
[37:29.000 -> 37:32.120] culture? It's a good, it's a good question this actually Greg, because what we
[37:32.120 -> 37:35.640] often find with people is, for you this is your mission, this is your life's work,
[37:35.640 -> 37:39.660] you're fully invested in this and you'll be rightly rewarded. Well, you've got some
[37:39.660 -> 37:44.320] staff, you know, earning the living wage working for you and how do you get them
[37:44.320 -> 37:45.120] to buy into?
[37:45.720 -> 37:51.280] Your mission. Yeah, so I think there are probably three dimensions forgive me for saying that
[37:51.960 -> 37:53.960] but the first one is
[37:54.080 -> 37:56.080] how we organize ourselves, so
[37:57.320 -> 38:02.000] Every Friday we ate we do something called family dinner for 15 p.m
[38:02.000 -> 38:07.740] Friday we get the whole company together across the world We do across the world every other week and then we do
[38:07.740 -> 38:13.280] individual countries the weeks in between and to be half an hour 45
[38:13.280 -> 38:17.240] minutes on zoom and I'll talk to entire company about what's gone on that week
[38:17.240 -> 38:21.160] and largely the positive stuff but we'll talk about negative stuff too and we do
[38:21.160 -> 38:24.920] it in a way that reinforces it's not a boring business presentation you know
[38:24.920 -> 38:29.840] it's as technically broken as the Eurovision Song Contest, which seems to add to the fun,
[38:29.840 -> 38:35.920] and then has, like, you know, lots of different voices, but led by me, and saying, look, this
[38:35.920 -> 38:40.080] is why we're doing it, this is what's good about this, and celebrating together, but
[38:40.080 -> 38:43.600] doing so in a sort of really, in the same way we're talking now.
[38:43.600 -> 38:47.980] And so we have a conversation across the company every week like that. The second thing is that
[38:47.980 -> 38:50.620] you talked about pay and now we definitely have a range of pay but
[38:50.620 -> 38:53.700] first of all we've got a salary cap in the business. No one in this business
[38:53.700 -> 38:57.500] earns like this sort of crazy money that some companies may pay.
[38:57.500 -> 38:58.780] And why is that?
[38:58.780 -> 39:01.980] Yeah I think a lot of the time we worry about the differential between the
[39:01.980 -> 39:08.800] highest paid and lowest paid in a company, right. And so part of handling that differential is limiting what the highest paid can get.
[39:08.800 -> 39:12.480] And does that apply to you as well, Greg? So you come into that?
[39:12.480 -> 39:18.080] I was, my salary was the salary cap, but then I moved on to minimum wage, so pretty much everyone's
[39:18.080 -> 39:21.760] paid more than me now, but I mean obviously that's part of a complex picture, I'm not, you know,
[39:21.760 -> 39:26.800] but yeah, and I think what it did also do though is it's very tempting when you're recruiting people
[39:26.800 -> 39:30.960] to kind of end up getting into a sort of bidding war.
[39:30.960 -> 39:33.320] And the salary cap really helps avoid that.
[39:33.320 -> 39:35.960] But every single member of the team,
[39:35.960 -> 39:38.000] everyone in the company is a shareholder
[39:38.000 -> 39:40.520] and holds enough shares it will be life changing
[39:40.520 -> 39:42.600] if we are ultimately successful.
[39:42.600 -> 39:47.160] And we've already had a couple of occasions when some of people could sell some shares and
[39:47.840 -> 39:49.840] You know for someone
[39:50.500 -> 39:56.960] Working custom operations to be able to put down the deposit for a flat has been life-changing and I've seen like
[39:57.560 -> 40:00.140] huge benefits from that and to me that's both
[40:00.680 -> 40:06.000] Sensible from a business perspective because it it means we are all aligned on the same thing in terms of business success,
[40:06.000 -> 40:08.880] but it's also socially something that I'm really proud of.
[40:08.880 -> 40:11.500] And then the third dimension is that people often talk
[40:11.500 -> 40:13.880] about the mission of companies, right?
[40:13.880 -> 40:15.760] Purpose-driven companies, and loads of companies
[40:15.760 -> 40:16.920] try and wrap a mission around
[40:16.920 -> 40:18.840] whatever they were doing anyway.
[40:18.840 -> 40:20.520] You know, our purpose is to make the world a better place
[40:20.520 -> 40:22.600] by selling more soft drinks or whatever, right?
[40:22.600 -> 40:24.240] And that's fine, by the way.
[40:24.240 -> 40:28.280] We were lucky enough to be founded with this mission to drive cheaper, cleaner energy
[40:28.280 -> 40:32.280] around the world. And that's one that is really appealing to people.
[40:32.280 -> 40:35.040] But alongside that, people talk about the purpose, but I don't think they talk enough
[40:35.040 -> 40:41.920] about the process of work. Is work enjoyable? And so when you look at some companies that
[40:41.920 -> 40:47.620] don't have the purpose, but they can be incredibly enjoyable places to work. And I think that's massive. So, and there's loads of
[40:47.620 -> 40:51.260] purpose-driven companies that aren't massively enjoyable places to work. So,
[40:51.260 -> 40:54.660] it's our job is to really try and make sure that the everyday working here is
[40:54.660 -> 40:58.380] enjoyable, as well as purposeful. And I think put those three dimensions
[40:58.380 -> 41:01.240] together and, you know, relentlessly focus on that.
[41:01.240 -> 41:06.960] And for people listening to this with other much smaller businesses than Octopus or even businesses where they're worrying about
[41:06.960 -> 41:10.760] their business rates and their heating bills and everything else as we
[41:10.760 -> 41:15.520] potentially enter into a recession, do you believe that all of those businesses
[41:15.520 -> 41:18.720] can still put their people first, they can still put the environment first, they
[41:18.720 -> 41:22.880] can still do the right thing and be a successful business? It's not a kind of
[41:22.880 -> 41:25.000] one or the other approach.
[41:25.000 -> 41:31.000] Times like this are brutal, right? And it's easy for leaders, commentators, politicians, whatever to say,
[41:31.000 -> 41:36.000] it's tough times, but tough times manifest in, you know, absolute misery for people.
[41:36.000 -> 41:45.680] So first of all, I think as a society, we should be doing what we can to minimize the pain of a genuine global issue right now. Which is
[41:45.680 -> 41:51.580] why, for example, we, you know, publicly been very supportive of measures like the
[41:51.580 -> 41:54.920] ones the government brought in to help reduce energy bills over the winter. I
[41:54.920 -> 41:58.300] don't know whether it's enough, but it's definitely the right kind of thing to do.
[41:58.300 -> 42:01.800] But it's also economically right because it reduces inflation, which reduces the
[42:01.800 -> 42:09.600] spiral that could cause major issues. But I think there is a thing that says like, how do I put my people first at a
[42:09.600 -> 42:13.600] time like this as a leader? Because at a time like this if you can put people
[42:13.600 -> 42:18.720] first at a time like this, then as you come out of this time they'll put you
[42:18.720 -> 42:23.680] first. And so for the long run I think that works. Now, easy to say but there is
[42:23.680 -> 42:26.660] some truth in it. I think we can ask ourselves, what can I do?
[42:26.660 -> 42:28.460] The other bit though is that, you know,
[42:28.460 -> 42:29.960] for example, at times of recession,
[42:29.960 -> 42:31.360] I've had in other business,
[42:31.360 -> 42:33.700] I've had to let people go before
[42:33.700 -> 42:34.620] through no fault of their own,
[42:34.620 -> 42:37.340] just because of the company's situation.
[42:37.340 -> 42:40.400] And in a way, you can't always help everyone.
[42:40.400 -> 42:48.000] What you can do is make sure that you do everything you do for the right reasons, and then really look after the ones
[42:48.000 -> 42:50.600] that are going to be part of the journey with you.
[42:50.600 -> 42:52.640] And if that requires shrinking down the team
[42:52.640 -> 42:55.160] and things like that, better you do that
[42:55.160 -> 42:56.640] than you fail for everyone.
[42:56.640 -> 42:58.440] And I think there is that phrase,
[42:58.440 -> 42:59.560] if you can't look after yourself,
[42:59.560 -> 43:01.200] you can't look after anyone else.
[43:01.200 -> 43:03.280] And so I think really, you do have to say,
[43:03.280 -> 43:07.960] look, the people who are going to be part of this journey we're going to look after and
[43:07.960 -> 43:12.040] for others we'll do the best we can. So take us inside your, like the kind of
[43:12.040 -> 43:15.800] questions that you ask yourself internally then Greg. So when times are
[43:15.800 -> 43:20.240] tough and you've got to make a tough decision, what are the first three
[43:20.240 -> 43:23.960] questions that you'll ask internally before you make that call? I think the
[43:23.960 -> 43:27.520] first one is if it's a decision you're making in private,
[43:27.520 -> 43:31.840] what would it do if anyone else knew about it, right? I think integrity
[43:31.840 -> 43:35.840] is often like, one way of thinking about integrity is, is this really the right
[43:35.840 -> 43:41.200] thing? Does it stand up to scrutiny? And I think you ask yourself that. The
[43:41.200 -> 43:46.620] second one, if it's, you know, if it's a tough decision is is it truly aligned?
[43:47.380 -> 43:52.060] With our state of principles because if it's not it's not the right thing, right?
[43:52.720 -> 43:55.980] You can't as soon as you allow a gap to open up between those
[43:56.780 -> 44:00.220] That's a fragility that in the long run will bite you
[44:00.420 -> 44:09.240] Even if you can say to your people and your staff this financially secures our business guys it goes against all my principles you know let's say we're
[44:09.240 -> 44:12.200] working with a state that we would never going to earn near but we're gonna do it
[44:12.200 -> 44:15.920] because it's guaranteeing us a billion pounds in extra revenue would you you
[44:15.920 -> 44:19.640] wouldn't make that decision? Look I think it's incredibly hard right but
[44:19.640 -> 44:30.960] there's a couple of things I mean we have walked away from an investor who wanted to use us as a vehicle for doing stuff that I didn't believe in and
[44:31.320 -> 44:39.800] So I've been there if it was necessary for us to turn into a company that were denying climate change in order to survive
[44:39.800 -> 44:41.280] I'd rather not do it, you know
[44:41.280 -> 44:45.920] So I think there's got to be a line. And you asked about three questions, I guess.
[44:45.920 -> 44:48.760] And the third one is, we had it this year, actually,
[44:48.760 -> 44:51.080] when we were, we had to raise our prices
[44:51.080 -> 44:52.680] for the energy crisis.
[44:52.680 -> 44:55.480] And frankly, customers couldn't switch away
[44:55.480 -> 44:57.840] because no energy company is really doing much
[44:57.840 -> 44:59.600] in terms of getting new customers.
[44:59.600 -> 45:01.960] So we could rise them to the maximum of the price cap.
[45:01.960 -> 45:09.360] And that would be better for our financial situation. We'd still lose money this year but it would be, you know, it's a
[45:09.360 -> 45:14.080] 50 million quid decision and we chose to look after customers without 50 million
[45:14.080 -> 45:18.200] quid because that's the promise we'd made. We'd said we would always do all we
[45:18.200 -> 45:22.100] can to keep prices down and the reality was our operating costs are about 50
[45:22.100 -> 45:29.320] quid less than anyone else's. We've always said that enables us to be better value for customers and we chose to stay true to
[45:29.320 -> 45:30.760] that even when we had the opportunity not to.
[45:30.760 -> 45:35.120] That's the kind of thing though that people don't necessarily recognize. So
[45:35.120 -> 45:40.760] how do you deal with people being ungrateful or just even ambivalent
[45:40.760 -> 45:47.640] towards you, you doing what you consider to be the right thing? How do you sort of keep, like keep your own morale high?
[45:47.640 -> 45:52.500] Look, it's about the story you tell yourself, right? And I think it is funny
[45:52.500 -> 45:56.560] like there's a few products and services we've got that are hugely loss-making
[45:56.560 -> 45:59.780] and we do them because they're the right thing or because they're about
[45:59.780 -> 46:03.920] innovating in a new market or something. And sometimes customers get grumpy if we
[46:03.920 -> 46:09.920] change the price. It's still usually loss loss making but not as cheap as it was and sometimes the team are like how ungrateful right, you know
[46:10.320 -> 46:12.080] We've given you an amazing bargain now
[46:12.080 -> 46:13.960] You're grumpy when it's not quite as an amazing bargain
[46:13.960 -> 46:17.480] But we have to remember that the customers doing the right thing by themselves
[46:18.120 -> 46:21.320] Look Greg, we're gonna move on in a second to our quickfire questions
[46:21.480 -> 46:29.440] But I just I really want to have this conversation with you very quickly, because I think that, perhaps like me, you're looking at the world thinking,
[46:29.440 -> 46:33.120] why are we doing things that are killing the environment when the only thing that actually
[46:33.120 -> 46:37.640] matters is the environment? You know, it might increase the turnover of a business or a country,
[46:37.640 -> 46:44.400] might make billions of pounds through turning on coal-powered factories, but there will
[46:44.400 -> 46:47.520] be no countries in 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 years
[46:47.520 -> 46:48.720] time if we don't act now.
[46:48.720 -> 46:51.720] So we've just created a coronavirus jab, right?
[46:51.720 -> 46:53.280] Which they did in a matter of months,
[46:53.280 -> 46:54.880] which normally takes years.
[46:54.880 -> 46:58.360] Why are we not applying that same life or death approach
[46:58.360 -> 47:01.600] to solving the issues around the environment?
[47:01.600 -> 47:04.560] Honestly, I'm completely with you.
[47:04.560 -> 47:08.560] The reality is the pandemic was horrific
[47:09.200 -> 47:13.680] and we shut down the global economy to deal with it and, you know, the economic problems we're
[47:13.680 -> 47:18.160] seeing now are a result of that. But the pandemic was nothing compared to climate change. Climate
[47:18.160 -> 47:24.000] change will wipe out our species and plenty of others if we don't do something about it.
[47:25.440 -> 47:31.040] species and plenty of others if we don't do something about it. And by the way the pace, the extreme weather events, you know, we can now say with certainty the
[47:31.040 -> 47:36.040] extreme weather events we're seeing are largely a result of climate change. The
[47:36.040 -> 47:41.640] fact that temperatures in Pakistan now are barely survivable by humans, it is
[47:41.640 -> 47:45.200] literally bakingly hot. The devastating floods, I mean Australia
[47:45.200 -> 47:50.380] has had fire and flood at the same time. Last week there were six extreme weather events
[47:50.380 -> 47:56.760] in the US alone. It was snowing in Mexico in June. So what's the problem? I think the
[47:56.760 -> 48:02.120] way that humans behave is we keep on behaving the way we did right to the point where it's
[48:02.120 -> 48:10.320] no longer possible. Because we assume there will be a solution. And we assume, by the way, that someone will make that solution happen. One
[48:10.320 -> 48:13.560] of the challenges with climate change is, you know, people say, well, there's no point
[48:13.560 -> 48:17.100] us doing anything because China emits more than we do. Now, there may be a moral question
[48:17.100 -> 48:21.840] that we emitted loads in our history and not... But actually, if everyone goes around just
[48:21.840 -> 48:26.220] saying, well, there's no point me doing anything because someone else will we will never solve this
[48:26.460 -> 48:30.820] The irony of today is that like first of all, we started inventing
[48:31.580 -> 48:33.580] creating renewable energy at scale
[48:34.220 -> 48:40.780] To tackle climate change, you know, maybe two decades ago. We started doing it. It was more expensive
[48:40.780 -> 48:43.880] We had subsidize it today is cheaper than fossil fuels
[48:43.880 -> 48:49.180] It was cheaper than fossil fuels before the crisis and now we've discovered thanks to the horrific
[48:49.840 -> 48:57.320] invasion of Ukraine the extent to which fossil fuels once again provide both the leverage and the funding for
[48:58.280 -> 49:04.680] You know horrific regimes that should be the final nail in the coffin for fossil fuels now today. There are
[49:05.440 -> 49:07.440] hundreds of thousands of jobs in the UK
[49:07.680 -> 49:10.760] dependent on fossil fuel. People, the vast majority of cars
[49:11.400 -> 49:15.080] run on fossil fuels. The vast majority of homes are heated by fossil fuels. Of course
[49:15.820 -> 49:20.820] everyone looks at it saying well, what about my situation? And I think it's incumbent on leaders,
[49:21.420 -> 49:23.240] business leaders,
[49:23.240 -> 49:25.800] to say look of what my business
[49:25.800 -> 49:29.380] does today, we have access to the solutions.
[49:29.380 -> 49:31.180] We need governments to help.
[49:31.180 -> 49:37.240] It's crazy, for example, that in the UK, electricity, which is increasingly clean, attracts something
[49:37.240 -> 49:40.240] like 90% of the taxes on energy.
[49:40.240 -> 49:48.040] Gas is virtually tax-free in comparison. So we need the economic signals that will then
[49:48.040 -> 49:51.520] cause companies to invest in creating this cleaner future.
[49:51.520 -> 49:53.400] Now the good news, by the way, is
[49:53.400 -> 49:57.320] despite all of the economic and financial interests
[49:57.320 -> 50:00.600] that have been lined up against the renewable transition,
[50:00.600 -> 50:03.360] renewables are increasingly winning.
[50:03.360 -> 50:05.100] And things like the current crisis which is
[50:05.100 -> 50:09.980] horrific are causing you know the UK is going to accelerate the massive amount
[50:09.980 -> 50:12.740] of offshore wind and we're going to do more onshore. Europe's going to double
[50:12.740 -> 50:18.740] its onshore wind but we cannot as citizens let our governments and
[50:18.740 -> 50:23.740] companies keep pretending that this is harder than it is and more expensive. The
[50:23.740 -> 50:27.640] reality is moving away from fossil fuels will save us money and it will create a cleaner,
[50:27.640 -> 50:33.160] cheaper, quieter world. And it's not just about climate change. Local air pollution
[50:33.160 -> 50:37.240] kills 30,000 people on average in the UK every year. That's every six years in
[50:37.240 -> 50:41.520] equivalent of the pandemic. And yet we just let it happen. So I think what we
[50:41.520 -> 50:45.960] need is citizens not to let companies and governments get away with telling them it's going to cost money
[50:45.960 -> 50:49.920] It's not and we can put the final nail in the coffin of fossil fuels
[50:49.920 -> 50:53.760] The first Industrial Revolution was generated by energy that energy
[50:53.840 -> 50:59.760] Unfortunately was digging up hundreds of millions of years worth of dead trees and burning them in a very short space of time
[50:59.760 -> 51:04.440] But actually like this renewable revolution really is the chance for a new Industrial Revolution
[51:05.000 -> 51:07.200] But actually, this renewable revolution really is the chance for a new industrial revolution. A second one powered by green energy.
[51:07.200 -> 51:11.000] Whether it be building wind farms or creating the technology that optimises solar.
[51:11.000 -> 51:16.080] Whether it be replacing our entire heating fleet with decarbonised, super efficient electric
[51:16.080 -> 51:17.520] heat pumps.
[51:17.520 -> 51:21.680] And then, things like, people worry about when it's not windy and sunny.
[51:21.680 -> 51:29.220] But imagine steelworks, which have got access to free energy when it's windy. Suddenly we can start having, like, you know, heavy
[51:29.220 -> 51:33.000] industries coming back, but this time they'll be completely clean.
[51:33.000 -> 51:37.200] So the final question before I quit fires then, are you optimistic or pessimistic about
[51:37.200 -> 51:38.820] the future for our planet?
[51:38.820 -> 51:43.400] I'm hugely optimistic on renewable energy. There are things we all worry about. But we've
[51:43.400 -> 51:46.960] got to remember that humans throughout history have always thought the past was better. Like, when you get to
[51:46.960 -> 51:52.440] my age, you always think the past was better than the future. So I've got to challenge
[51:52.440 -> 51:57.360] myself and think, look, look at the great stuff social media does, right? You know,
[51:57.360 -> 52:01.920] look at the phenomenal interactions you get between young people who care about causes
[52:01.920 -> 52:08.000] and each other with a passion that can only inspire us. So, yeah, I guess ultimately pretty optimistic.
[52:08.200 -> 52:09.920] Right. Quickfire questions.
[52:10.120 -> 52:13.520] And you can answer these as quickly or as not quickly as you like.
[52:13.720 -> 52:19.840] The three non-negotiable behaviours that you and the people around you must buy into.
[52:20.040 -> 52:24.720] I think the first one is respecting other people,
[52:24.920 -> 52:25.000] really understanding that if people have got the talent, I think the first one is respecting other people.
[52:25.000 -> 52:28.320] Really understanding that if people have got the talent,
[52:28.320 -> 52:31.120] brains to survive in today's society,
[52:31.120 -> 52:33.680] to pay mortgages, bring up kids and everything else,
[52:33.680 -> 52:35.960] they can do pretty much anything a company asks of them.
[52:35.960 -> 52:39.560] And actually, we live in a world of dumbing everything down.
[52:39.560 -> 52:43.960] And then you saw TED Talks, these long videos
[52:43.960 -> 52:45.040] of someone just starting talking, people
[52:45.040 -> 52:46.320] love it.
[52:46.320 -> 52:47.320] Let's respect people.
[52:47.320 -> 52:50.440] I think the second one for me is don't compromise.
[52:50.440 -> 52:53.660] And the reason I say that is, look, people think of compromise as a good thing, but the
[52:53.660 -> 52:56.540] reality is it means neither person is getting what they want.
[52:56.540 -> 53:00.060] And actually by having a longer conversation and really digging into what we want, we can
[53:00.060 -> 53:03.200] often find solutions that meet both people's needs.
[53:03.200 -> 53:09.600] So that desire we often see to just meet in the middle actually precludes better solutions. And I think
[53:09.600 -> 53:13.200] the third one is, we talk about a lot, is be authentic. Learn to be comfortable
[53:13.200 -> 53:18.320] being yourself and I think that is better for you, but it's also better for
[53:18.320 -> 53:22.080] other people because they're actually dealing with the real person, the real view,
[53:22.080 -> 53:28.040] not trying to guess what's going on. If you could go back to one moment of your life, what would it be and why?
[53:28.040 -> 53:32.720] If it's to change something, then I think that I had the idea for Octopus Energy in
[53:32.720 -> 53:38.100] about 2011, but I didn't have the confidence to go out and raise the funding from big investors
[53:38.100 -> 53:40.700] until 2015.
[53:40.700 -> 53:46.320] And I think, you know, we could be four years ahead of where we are now if I'd had that confidence
[53:46.480 -> 53:51.400] Just to break away quickly then from the quickfire element. Where did the confidence come from to do it?
[53:51.400 -> 53:56.700] I met Simon Rogerson is the founder of a company called octopus investments is a big investment fund
[53:57.220 -> 53:59.920] we met for a coffee about something entirely different, but
[54:00.360 -> 54:05.920] When I discovered that he was one of the biggest investors in venture capital in the UK in startup tech firms
[54:06.240 -> 54:11.280] I'm one of the biggest investors in renewable generation. I thought this is the guy that can back this idea and
[54:11.800 -> 54:13.560] So towards the end of a cup of coffee
[54:13.560 -> 54:18.920] I metaphorically dragged the business plan off the shelf blew off the dust and said here's an idea and
[54:19.680 -> 54:25.120] Five or six weeks later. We shook hands on a deal to back it. I just wish I'd done that four years earlier.
[54:25.120 -> 54:27.320] Hey, you did it in the end, that's the main thing.
[54:27.320 -> 54:28.800] Exactly, exactly.
[54:28.800 -> 54:30.880] And it's a reminder that you will miss 100%
[54:30.880 -> 54:32.360] of the shots that you don't take.
[54:32.360 -> 54:34.640] So well done for taking that shot.
[54:34.640 -> 54:36.360] How important is legacy to you?
[54:36.360 -> 54:39.080] I don't think legacy is massively important to me at all.
[54:39.080 -> 54:42.880] I think the responsibility to do your best
[54:42.880 -> 54:44.560] is the thing that matters most.
[54:44.560 -> 54:47.580] And if that leaves a great legacy, fantastic.
[54:47.580 -> 54:49.240] And I think for me, it's just always knowing like,
[54:49.240 -> 54:51.920] you know, whatever high watermark I happen to hit,
[54:51.920 -> 54:53.360] I can be really pleased I got to it.
[54:53.360 -> 54:56.000] What advice would you give to a 16 year old Greg
[54:56.000 -> 54:57.280] just starting out?
[54:57.280 -> 54:59.720] I'd say be more like your gran, right?
[54:59.720 -> 55:02.840] Isn't it interesting that old people are often,
[55:02.840 -> 55:06.200] they're happy because they finally
[55:06.200 -> 55:08.260] come to terms with who they are
[55:08.260 -> 55:11.400] and they're confident with it, whatever that may be.
[55:11.400 -> 55:13.280] And I think, you know, when you're young,
[55:13.280 -> 55:15.360] you know, and it isn't about young people,
[55:15.360 -> 55:17.300] I mean, just, we spend a lot of our lives
[55:17.300 -> 55:19.120] worrying about what others think.
[55:19.120 -> 55:20.240] You know, what does our mom think?
[55:20.240 -> 55:21.860] What do our friends think?
[55:21.860 -> 55:23.140] What do our housemates think?
[55:23.140 -> 55:24.080] What does my boss think?
[55:24.080 -> 55:25.560] What do they all think of me?
[55:25.560 -> 55:29.320] And the reality is we end up then doing stuff to please other people
[55:29.440 -> 55:33.880] Rather than doing stuff that is actually about fulfilling our own potential and our own dreams
[55:33.880 -> 55:38.080] And finally Greg your last message really to the people listening to this
[55:38.460 -> 55:42.640] What would you say is your one golden rule for living a high-performance life?
[55:42.640 -> 55:48.640] I think it's to be relentless. For example every morning I get up the moment the alarm goes off, I don't hit the snooze
[55:48.640 -> 55:49.640] button.
[55:49.640 -> 55:52.800] That's not a boast, by the way, it's kind of a decision I made because I found that
[55:52.800 -> 55:57.760] as soon as I stopped being relentless, it very quickly spirals to, you know, dramatically
[55:57.760 -> 55:58.760] less.
[55:58.760 -> 55:59.760] And what time is that alarm?
[55:59.760 -> 56:00.760] 6.40 most days.
[56:00.760 -> 56:04.600] And how strict are you in terms of the way you work your day out and the way that you
[56:04.600 -> 56:08.000] live your life? You know, how specific are you about how
[56:08.000 -> 56:11.040] you do things to get yourself to that point? Because this is obviously this
[56:11.040 -> 56:14.120] isn't part of the quickfire but there is definitely a one thing I'm always very
[56:14.120 -> 56:17.640] careful about in these conversations. We can do all the lovely stuff about purpose
[56:17.640 -> 56:21.680] and belief and all of that but actually I think young people need to also hear a
[56:21.680 -> 56:26.580] conversation about hard work and relentless. I mean Steve and Gerard came on the podcast and described it as all-in
[56:27.960 -> 56:29.600] Could you give us a little bit on that?
[56:29.600 -> 56:33.720] First of all, one thing I do that I think is unusual is I don't pack my day with meetings
[56:33.720 -> 56:40.880] I'm religious about having lots of time outside meetings because in the one hour that someone wants to have a meeting
[56:40.880 -> 56:47.120] I could make ten phone calls or I could drop by the desks of half a dozen team members
[56:47.120 -> 56:50.160] and I can be available for people to deal with
[56:50.160 -> 56:53.440] what's going on that day. So one thing for me is
[56:53.440 -> 56:57.440] your time is far too precious to let it get soaked up
[56:57.440 -> 57:00.480] on other people's meeting requests relentlessly through the day. It's quite
[57:00.480 -> 57:03.120] funny when I got a new PA she came from a very large
[57:03.120 -> 57:05.000] software company and I said, oh I I got a new PA, she came from a very large software company.
[57:05.000 -> 57:07.080] And I said, oh, I've got a lot of meetings tomorrow.
[57:07.080 -> 57:09.200] And she said, well, where I used to work,
[57:09.200 -> 57:12.320] my job was to pack from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. every day,
[57:12.320 -> 57:13.840] hour by hour by hour.
[57:13.840 -> 57:15.760] And I was like, whoa,
[57:15.760 -> 57:17.520] how does that person get any thinking time?
[57:17.520 -> 57:20.160] How does he get any time to reset?
[57:20.160 -> 57:21.880] And how does he get to do anything proactive
[57:21.880 -> 57:23.160] that changes the world?
[57:23.160 -> 57:24.000] Which takes me to the second thing.
[57:24.000 -> 57:27.280] It's like, it's really easy every day and every week to start with a to-do list, which is all the things that you get to do anything proactive that changes the world? Which takes me to the second thing. It's like, it's really easy every day and every week
[57:27.280 -> 57:28.300] to start with a to-do list,
[57:28.300 -> 57:29.820] which is all the things that you have to do.
[57:29.820 -> 57:32.300] The really hard bit, but the bit that's most important,
[57:32.300 -> 57:34.500] is to create a to-do list of the stuff
[57:34.500 -> 57:36.180] that's going to make the world different tomorrow
[57:36.180 -> 57:37.200] than it was yesterday.
[57:37.200 -> 57:39.420] What new thing are we going to do?
[57:39.420 -> 57:41.660] What are we going to add to our list?
[57:41.660 -> 57:43.760] Right, and it's really, people often like,
[57:43.760 -> 57:45.200] often people say, but we're so busy,
[57:45.200 -> 57:50.320] we're doing so much. It's like, it's not enough, right? You know, our mission is to drive change.
[57:50.320 -> 57:55.520] And if we're not doing it, someone else will. It's brilliant. Greg, what a fascinating and
[57:55.520 -> 57:59.760] awesome conversation. I think that, you know, too often in big business, empathy is not spoken
[57:59.760 -> 58:07.200] about enough. And I think that that hourlong conversation is a reminder of the power
[58:04.800 -> 58:08.760] I guess of, and it's not about
[58:07.200 -> 58:10.320] self-confidence or arrogance or anything
[58:08.760 -> 58:12.120] like that, it's just about having this
[58:10.320 -> 58:13.360] real fundamental belief that the
[58:12.120 -> 58:15.400] decisions you're making are the right
[58:13.360 -> 58:18.080] decisions and I think you are the
[58:15.400 -> 58:20.400] perfect example of someone who
[58:18.080 -> 58:21.760] clearly believes so strongly in what
[58:20.400 -> 58:23.520] they're doing and the direction they're
[58:21.760 -> 58:25.040] heading that it gives them a real
[58:23.520 -> 58:27.800] clarity, don't you think Damien? Yeah, it's been a real privilege to listen to you share
[58:27.800 -> 58:30.400] with such honesty and authenticity as well, Greg.
[58:30.400 -> 58:32.200] I know that you spoke about them
[58:32.200 -> 58:33.600] and some of your trademark behaviours
[58:33.600 -> 58:37.600] and it's been a privilege to observe it in action.
[58:37.600 -> 58:38.400] It's funny, Damien, isn't it?
[58:38.400 -> 58:42.600] Because behind you, you've got the five steps,
[58:42.600 -> 58:44.200] I guess, into a winning mindset.
[58:44.200 -> 58:44.800] Yeah.
[58:44.800 -> 58:45.160] Yeah, and I think, look, there's no point winning if it's not the game that you want to play, right? the five steps, I guess in two are winning mindset. Yeah.
[58:45.160 -> 58:46.880] Yeah. And I think like, there's no point winning
[58:46.880 -> 58:48.800] if it's not the game that you want to play.
[58:48.800 -> 58:50.040] Right. And isn't it interesting,
[58:50.040 -> 58:51.400] I talked about motorcycle racing earlier.
[58:51.400 -> 58:54.360] Casey Stoner was a world champion motorcycle racer
[58:54.360 -> 58:55.440] at a young age.
[58:55.440 -> 58:56.400] And then he resigned.
[58:56.400 -> 58:58.880] He gave up, he retired because he didn't enjoy it.
[58:58.880 -> 59:01.760] Valentino Rossi was an amazing,
[59:01.760 -> 59:07.640] relentless winner of world championships. And then he stopped winning for a whole pile of reasons
[59:07.640 -> 59:11.920] But he kept on racing because he loved it and I think that's the thing to me
[59:11.920 -> 59:12.440] All right
[59:12.440 -> 59:15.040] There are so many people that sat out to be a winner
[59:15.320 -> 59:18.840] But they're winning a game that they're doing for someone else's reason or for the wrong reason
[59:18.840 -> 59:21.240] I think the great privilege I've got is this is the stuff I care about
[59:21.800 -> 59:23.520] Brilliant. I'm out of guests wrong
[59:23.520 -> 59:25.400] But I keep thinking about your mum and a clear
[59:25.400 -> 59:28.920] moral compass that she gave you all those years ago that is helping you to change the
[59:28.920 -> 59:29.640] world. So well done.
[59:30.000 -> 59:31.400] But you're right. It's exactly from there.
[59:31.680 -> 59:34.000] I might give her a call after this just to let her know we just had this chat.
[59:34.280 -> 59:35.400] Cheers, guys. Thank you.
[59:39.240 -> 59:46.200] Damien, Jake, look, it's a challenging time, for everyone trying to pay their bills at the moment.
[59:46.200 -> 59:51.500] And I think we have to be really aware of that when we have a conversation and we lord the work of a CEO of an energy firm.
[59:51.500 -> 59:59.500] And there's no doubt that, you know, Greg, as he explained in that interview, tries to have his morals in the right place, tries to make the right decisions.
[01:00:00.000 -> 01:00:07.280] Um, and I would imagine that it's a, it's a hard world now for him to work out the way forward for
[01:00:07.280 -> 01:00:12.200] customers, isn't it? I see that they're doing what they can, but I don't know, I kind of
[01:00:12.200 -> 01:00:13.760] think they can always do more, right?
[01:00:13.760 -> 01:00:20.680] Yeah. And I agree. And I think there's some stat around over the last 30 years or so that
[01:00:20.680 -> 01:00:26.240] the pay of chief execs has far started to y cyfrifol o'u staff.
[01:00:26.240 -> 01:00:31.560] Felly, rwy'n credu, yn y 1970au, roedd y cyfrifol yn dweud dwyfn oedol.
[01:00:31.560 -> 01:00:34.120] Degawd, mae'n dweud dwyfn oedol.
[01:00:34.120 -> 01:00:36.840] Felly, rwy'n credu, weithiau o'r gwbl,
[01:00:36.840 -> 01:00:39.840] mae'n dod yn dod yn ymwneud ag y bydd y arweinyddion cyfraith yma yn ymwneud ag y torfau,
[01:00:39.840 -> 01:00:43.960] yn ymwneud ag y broblemau, y diflodi a'r heriau
[01:00:43.960 -> 01:00:47.520] o'r dynol, y dynol a'r dynion ar y stryd.
[01:00:47.520 -> 01:00:52.240] Dydw i ddim yn teimlo hynny gyda Greg, ond rwy'n teimlo, er bod yn dod o ran ymdrech,
[01:00:52.240 -> 01:00:55.760] roedd yn cael ymdrech dynol, roedd yn ceisio deall,
[01:00:55.760 -> 01:00:58.800] a oedd o ran y cymorth o'r blancytion allanol,
[01:00:58.800 -> 01:01:04.160] cael eu hysbysu i'w cwmnio mwyaf anodd, neu'n ymddangos i'w gynllunio i'r cyllideb mawr.
[01:01:04.160 -> 01:01:05.280] Rwy'n credu, pethau fel hyn, yn gael ei gysylltu, ac rwy'n credu ei gynllunio yw'r lle cyntaf vulnerable customers or putting himself down to a minimum wage. I think things
[01:01:05.280 -> 01:01:09.820] like that keep him connected and I think his heart is in the right place in what
[01:01:09.820 -> 01:01:12.840] is obviously a difficult and challenging time for many.
[01:01:12.840 -> 01:01:16.200] Yeah and obviously you know just to remind people that we recorded that
[01:01:16.200 -> 01:01:19.840] conversation before the current energy crisis so we weren't able to ask him
[01:01:19.840 -> 01:01:23.840] about exactly how he's dealing with the issues he's got in front of him now but
[01:01:23.840 -> 01:01:29.720] I think that people like Greg, businesses like Octopus, they all have to take responsibility. We talk
[01:01:29.720 -> 01:01:34.840] all the time on the High Performance, right, about responsibility. And I just would love
[01:01:34.840 -> 01:01:39.400] to see them all get together and say, look, this is no longer about which energy business
[01:01:39.400 -> 01:01:42.600] is going to beat that energy business. It's no longer about turnover and profit. It's
[01:01:42.600 -> 01:01:46.120] about protecting the people because that's what we're going to need this winter, protection for people. y byddai'r busnes hwnnw ddim yn ymwneud â'r cyrraedd a'r profit, ond yn ymwneud â'r bobl, oherwydd dyna beth rydym ni'n ei eisiau yw'r ddewis,
[01:01:46.120 -> 01:01:47.480] gweld eich bobl.
[01:01:47.480 -> 01:01:50.440] Ie, mae'r cyfrifiad cyfrifiadol yn y chweithiau honno.
[01:01:50.440 -> 01:01:51.680] Nid yw, ydych chi'n gwybod,
[01:01:51.680 -> 01:01:53.920] gwneud ychydig o quid i'ch cymhwysterwyr,
[01:01:53.920 -> 01:01:55.280] ond mewn gwirionedd,
[01:01:55.280 -> 01:01:57.720] gweithio yno i seilio'r gydgadaethau
[01:01:57.720 -> 01:01:59.960] a'ch gyrfaoedd gyda'ch cwmniau.
[01:01:59.960 -> 01:02:01.440] Ydych chi'n gwybod, efallai, dechrau ystyried hynny
[01:02:01.440 -> 01:02:02.880] ar gyfer y cyfnod byr.
[01:02:02.880 -> 01:02:06.720] Ac nid oedd gennym ychydig o'r hyn i''t get into that per se with Greg, but I do think his heart
[01:02:06.720 -> 01:02:09.080] is in the right place. And I think more people like him,
[01:02:09.440 -> 01:02:13.400] being willing to have those conversations will help the more
[01:02:13.400 -> 01:02:14.760] vulnerable in our society.
[01:02:14.920 -> 01:02:16.040] Sodiq Ganiyu Fully agree. Thank you, mate.
[01:02:16.160 -> 01:02:16.680] Greg Foss Thanks, mate.
[01:02:18.800 -> 01:02:20.920] Sodiq Ganiyu Well, look, as always, huge thanks goes to you
[01:02:20.920 -> 01:02:23.520] for growing and sharing this podcast among your community.
[01:02:23.840 -> 01:02:28.040] Please continue to spread the learnings you're taking from this series and for every episode
[01:02:28.040 -> 01:02:30.040] of the High Performance Podcast.
[01:02:30.040 -> 01:02:34.240] Thank you to Greg Jackson, thank you to PWC, thanks to the whole team for creating today's
[01:02:34.240 -> 01:02:39.160] episode, Finn, Hannah, Will, Eve, Gemma, Cal and everyone else working on high performance.
[01:02:39.160 -> 01:02:43.180] And remember, there is no secret, it is all there for you.
[01:02:43.180 -> 01:02:46.240] So chase world-class basics, don't get high on your own supply,
[01:02:46.640 -> 01:03:05.600] remain humble, curious and empathetic, and we'll see you very soon. Bye!