Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Fri, 23 Sep 2022 00:00:28 GMT
Duration:
1:01:29
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
This episode is the start of our CEO Series, in which we will be deep diving into what it takes to be a CEO.
Amanda Blanc is a Welsh businesswoman and the current CEO of Aviva, stepping into the role in July 2020. Amanda grew up in Rhondda valley in Wales, both her grandparents were miners. In this episode she shares how her childhood in Rhondda instilled in her the importance of community, freedom, happiness and fun.
Amanda discusses what she has learnt from her role as CEO and how she approaches leading a million pound company. Communication is key for Amanda, she approaches every conversation with an open mind, wanting to learn how she can improve her work and in turn, the company. During Covid, Amanda would hold virtual town-halls in which she would invite colleagues to share their thoughts with her directly. A key learning for Amanda is, “be your own customer”. You need to use your own service, see how it functions as a user - the good and the bad parts.
In this episode Jake, Damian and Amanda also discuss emotional intelligence, why she will always choose the hard option and how she dealt with being told she was not “the man for the job”.
Thank you to PwC for sponsoring this special CEO Series. PwC’s purpose is to build trust and solve important problems, and their global strategy - The New Equation - is bringing this to life for their clients, people and society. By combining technology with human ingenuity, passion and experience, PwC works with organisations to deliver more intelligent, sustained outcomes.
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###Summary of the Podcast Episode###
In this episode, Amanda Blanc, the CEO of Aviva, shares her insights on leadership, communication, and the importance of resilience in the corporate world.
1. **Defining High Performance:**
- For Amanda Blanc, high performance is achieved through effective execution of strategies.
- She emphasizes the need for clarity in communication and breaking down goals into measurable components.
2. **The Secret to Effective Execution:**
- Blanc stresses the importance of real clarity of message and setting three simple goals that investors, colleagues, and the board can get behind.
- She believes that what gets measured gets done, and regular monitoring of targets is crucial for successful execution.
3. **Origins and Resilience:**
- Blanc grew up in the Rhondda Valley in Wales, where both her grandparents were miners.
- She credits her upbringing with instilling in her the values of community, freedom, happiness, and fun.
- She highlights the importance of resilience, which she learned from her family and the challenges faced by the mining community during the miners' strikes.
4. **Communication and Feedback:**
- Blanc emphasizes the significance of open communication and being a good listener.
- She encourages leaders to approach every conversation with an open mind and a willingness to learn and improve.
- She acknowledges the challenge of dealing with negative feedback, particularly online comments, but stresses the need to focus on constructive criticism and not take it too personally.
5. **The Importance of Resilience:**
- Blanc believes that resilience is essential for CEOs, as they are constantly under scrutiny and face criticism.
- She emphasizes the need to be able to take feedback and learn from mistakes, rather than letting negativity hold you back.
6. **Choosing the Hard Option:**
- Blanc often chooses the harder option in her career, even when it means taking risks and putting her reputation on the line.
- She attributes this to her confidence in her abilities as a leader, communicator, and problem-solver.
- She believes that having a strong support system, including her family and colleagues, helps her take calculated risks.
7. **Mitigating Risk and Playing to Win:**
- Blanc mitigates risk by surrounding herself with a strong team of talented individuals.
- She emphasizes the importance of having the right attitude and core values in team members, even if it means compromising on certain skills.
- She believes that investing time in building a strong team is crucial for long-term success.
8. **The Importance of Emotional Intelligence:**
- Blanc discusses the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership.
- She believes that leaders need to be self-aware and able to understand and manage their own emotions, as well as the emotions of others.
- She emphasizes the importance of empathy and the ability to connect with people on a personal level.
9. **Dealing with Being Told She Was "Not the Man for the Job":**
- Blanc shares an experience where she was told she was "not the man for the job" due to her gender.
- She felt offended and used this experience to motivate her to work harder and prove her capabilities.
- She encourages women to stand up for themselves and not let stereotypes or discrimination hold them back.
10. **The Overall Message:**
- Blanc concludes the podcast by emphasizing the importance of authenticity, resilience, and the ability to learn from mistakes.
- She believes that leaders should strive to be their own customers and use their own services to understand the customer experience.
- She encourages leaders to be open to change and to continuously improve their skills and knowledge.
# Episode Summary:
This episode of the podcast series focuses on the role of a CEO and leadership qualities. The guest speaker is Amanda Blanc, the CEO of Aviva, who shares her insights and experiences.
**Key Points:**
1. **Communication and Openness:** Amanda emphasizes the importance of effective communication and maintaining an open mind in leadership. She believes in creating a culture where employees feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and ideas, even if they differ from her own.
2. **Be Your Own Customer:** To truly understand the customer experience, Amanda suggests that leaders should use their own company's products or services. This firsthand experience can provide valuable insights into areas that need improvement.
3. **Emotional Intelligence:** Emotional intelligence is crucial for successful leadership. Amanda highlights the ability to read and understand the emotions of others, as well as managing one's own emotions, as essential skills for navigating the complexities of leadership.
4. **Making Tough Decisions:** When faced with difficult decisions, Amanda emphasizes the need for decisiveness and the willingness to make tough choices. She stresses that while these decisions may be challenging, they are necessary for the long-term success of the organization.
5. **Dealing with Controversial Feedback:** Amanda shares her experience of receiving negative feedback, including being told she was "not the man for the job." She emphasizes the importance of resilience and the ability to learn from criticism, rather than letting it hold one back.
6. **Values and Behaviors:** Amanda discusses the importance of establishing and communicating clear values and behaviors within the organization. She believes that these values should guide decision-making and actions at all levels of the company.
7. **Coaching and Development:** Amanda views coaching as an essential part of leadership. She regularly engages in performance conversations with her team members, providing feedback and support to help them grow and develop.
8. **Diversity and Inclusion:** Amanda acknowledges the lack of diversity in leadership positions, particularly for women and minorities. She calls for more action and accountability from organizations to address this issue and create a more inclusive workplace.
9. **Role Models and Imposter Syndrome:** Amanda emphasizes the importance of role models, especially for young girls and women, to see themselves in leadership positions. She also discusses her own experiences with imposter syndrome and how she overcomes it by focusing on her strengths and contributions.
10. **Community and Background:** Amanda reflects on her upbringing in the Rhondda Valley in Wales and how the values she learned there, such as community, freedom, happiness, and fun, have influenced her leadership style.
**Overall Message:**
Amanda Blanc's leadership philosophy centers around effective communication, emotional intelligence, and a commitment to values and behaviors. She emphasizes the importance of being open to feedback, making tough decisions, and fostering a culture of coaching and development. Amanda also highlights the need for greater diversity and inclusion in leadership positions and the role of role models in inspiring young people to pursue leadership roles.
# Podcast Episode Summary:
**Title:** The CEO Series: Amanda Blanc - The Aviva CEO
**Guest:** Amanda Blanc, CEO of Aviva
**Host:** Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes
**Sponsor:** PwC
**Key Points:**
1. **Early Life and Influences:**
- Amanda Blanc grew up in the Rhondda Valley, Wales.
- Her upbringing instilled in her the importance of community, freedom, happiness, and fun.
- Her grandparents were miners, and she learned the value of hard work and resilience from them.
2. **Leadership and Communication:**
- Amanda Blanc emphasizes the importance of communication and openness in her leadership style.
- She approaches every conversation with an open mind and seeks to learn and improve.
- During the COVID-19 pandemic, she held virtual town halls to invite colleagues to share their thoughts and concerns directly with her.
3. **Customer-Centric Approach:**
- Amanda Blanc believes in the importance of "being your own customer."
- She uses Aviva's products and services herself to understand how they function from a user's perspective.
- This approach helps her identify areas for improvement and deliver better customer experiences.
4. **Emotional Intelligence and Decision-Making:**
- Amanda Blanc highlights the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership.
- She values the ability to understand and manage one's own emotions, as well as the emotions of others.
- She believes that emotional intelligence helps leaders make better decisions and build stronger relationships with their teams.
5. **Overcoming Challenges and Stereotypes:**
- Amanda Blanc has faced challenges throughout her career, including being told she was "not the man for the job."
- She has overcome these challenges by being resilient, persistent, and focused on her goals.
- She encourages others to challenge stereotypes and to never let anyone tell them what they cannot achieve.
6. **Importance of Work-Life Balance:**
- While Amanda Blanc is dedicated to her work, she also values her personal life and family.
- She believes that it is important to find a balance between work and personal commitments.
- She enjoys activities like cycling and spending time with her family to recharge and maintain a healthy lifestyle.
**Overall Message:**
Amanda Blanc's journey as CEO of Aviva highlights the importance of strong leadership, open communication, emotional intelligence, and resilience. She emphasizes the need for leaders to be customer-centric and to challenge stereotypes. Blanc also stresses the significance of work-life balance and personal well-being for high-performance individuals.
[00:00.000 -> 00:04.680] Hi there, I'm Jake Humphrey and you're listening to High Performance, our
[00:04.680 -> 00:10.320] conversation for you every single week and I'm very excited to announce that
[00:10.320 -> 00:16.160] this is the first in a series of High Performance CEO conversations. This CEO
[00:16.160 -> 00:21.360] series is going to reveal the truth about leadership with top CEOs from some
[00:21.360 -> 00:28.600] of the biggest businesses in the country. We will investigate how they define, create and maintain culture. We're going to delve into the setbacks,
[00:28.600 -> 00:35.320] the self-belief and the sacrifice. This is top CEOs disarmed, deeply honest and
[00:35.320 -> 00:43.640] completely vulnerable. Today we welcome the CEO of Aviva, Amanda Blanc.
[00:43.640 -> 00:48.000] You have to have the right attitude because I do not want to work with people who are
[00:48.000 -> 00:52.000] poorly behaved or just can't do it. I mean, obviously you have to have some capability.
[00:52.000 -> 00:56.000] If you're the finance director, then you probably have to do know quite a bit about numbers.
[00:56.000 -> 01:00.920] But really, you know, it is about have you got the right core values and behaviors to
[01:00.920 -> 01:06.400] be able to do a good job. And then you build out from there. I actually felt quite offended by that.
[01:06.400 -> 01:07.800] I don't think that that was acceptable.
[01:07.800 -> 01:10.880] And we've done quite a lot of work with our teams
[01:10.880 -> 01:13.560] around that to make sure that we get the right behavior.
[01:13.560 -> 01:15.520] We will not get it right.
[01:15.520 -> 01:17.680] Definitely not a hundred percent of the time,
[01:17.680 -> 01:19.960] but I think we're getting better at calling it out
[01:19.960 -> 01:21.000] when you see it.
[01:21.920 -> 01:24.760] I'm here for a reason, because I've got something to add,
[01:24.760 -> 01:27.160] because I am from a different background, because I've got something to add. Because I am from a different background,
[01:27.160 -> 01:28.920] because I have been successful,
[01:28.920 -> 01:32.120] because I know what good looks like,
[01:32.120 -> 01:35.560] and I know I can help, and I'm prepared to speak up.
[01:35.560 -> 01:37.160] Could I do a better job than that?
[01:37.160 -> 01:39.120] Yeah, I think I probably could.
[01:39.120 -> 01:40.760] I think I'm probably a good leader.
[01:40.760 -> 01:42.720] I think I'm probably a good communicator.
[01:42.720 -> 01:44.320] I think I probably know what needs to be done.
[01:44.320 -> 01:46.000] And by the way, I do get shit done.
[01:46.000 -> 01:53.000] You know what, in so many ways, Amanda Blanc is the perfect person to launch our High Performance CEO series
[01:53.000 -> 01:57.000] because she started from the bottom and she worked her way up.
[01:57.000 -> 02:00.000] She didn't come from a family that had experience working in industry.
[02:00.000 -> 02:01.000] In fact, she was from the Ronda Valley.
[02:01.000 -> 02:03.000] She came from a mining family.
[02:03.000 -> 02:06.480] She talks about that really emotionally on this podcast.
[02:06.480 -> 02:08.740] And she started at the bottom in the business world
[02:08.740 -> 02:10.780] and she worked her way up and she grafted
[02:10.780 -> 02:13.000] and she made mistakes and she sacrificed.
[02:13.000 -> 02:15.800] And you will hear about all of those things
[02:15.800 -> 02:17.200] over the next hour or so.
[02:17.200 -> 02:19.000] It's a really brilliant conversation with Amanda
[02:19.000 -> 02:21.460] and I want it to be so inspiring to so many people.
[02:21.460 -> 02:24.120] So I hope that this is an episode that you really enjoy.
[02:24.120 -> 02:25.300] And no matter what your line of work
[02:25.300 -> 02:27.740] What your industry where you are in your career?
[02:27.780 -> 02:31.260] There's so much that you can learn from the things that Amanda is going to share
[02:31.260 -> 02:37.700] And you know what this CEO series of the high-performance podcast is brought to you by PwC now you may be wondering
[02:38.020 -> 02:39.500] Why PwC?
[02:39.500 -> 02:44.380] Well, they often set the bar for leadership culture inclusion and the future of work
[02:44.380 -> 02:47.300] Which are all things that we talk about so often here on High Performance.
[02:47.300 -> 02:57.100] We also talk about trust and their purpose is to build trust and solve those really crucial problems for their people and for their customers and their global strategy.
[02:57.100 -> 03:00.700] The new equation is bringing this to life for everybody.
[03:01.000 -> 03:04.900] And the way they're doing it is they're combining technology with human ingenuity,
[03:04.900 -> 03:07.040] passion and experience.
[03:07.040 -> 03:08.340] And they work with organizations
[03:08.340 -> 03:12.280] to deliver more intelligent, sustained outcomes.
[03:12.280 -> 03:13.520] So thank you so much for being part
[03:13.520 -> 03:15.240] of this special series of interviews here
[03:15.240 -> 03:16.680] on High Performance.
[03:16.680 -> 03:19.180] I know people are gonna get so much from them.
[03:19.180 -> 03:20.680] Right, here we go then.
[03:20.680 -> 03:24.040] The CEO of Aviva, Amanda Blanc
[03:24.040 -> 03:25.520] on the High Performance Podcast.
[03:25.520 -> 03:35.160] Well, Amanda, let's start with our opening question. What does high performance mean to you?
[03:35.160 -> 03:36.880] Amanda Blanc Yeah. So, I mean,
[03:36.880 -> 03:40.160] obviously that's a brilliant question and the purpose of the podcast, and it's something I give
[03:40.160 -> 03:56.000] an awful lot of thought to in my job. And I think sometimes you can overplay these things, but for me, Rwy'n credu y gallwch chi ddweud y pethau hyn, ond i mi, mae cyflwyniadau cyhoeddiol ynghylch gweithredu, oherwydd rwy'n credu y gallwch chi gael yr holl strategaethau glamorus a'r pethau ddiddorol hynny, ac maen nhw'n sôn llawn ddiddorol ac yn ymwneud â'r cyfnod.
[03:56.000 -> 04:05.820] Ond mewn gwirionedd, ar ddiwedd y dydd, gallwch chi gael strategaeth cyffredin, ond os ydych chi'n ei gweithredu'n iawn, gall hynny ddarparu cyflwyniadau cyhoeddiol. average strategy, but if you execute it really well, that can deliver really high performance.
[04:05.820 -> 04:11.380] And so, you know, I've always been an execution queen. My team will always say it's always
[04:11.380 -> 04:16.200] about execution, execution, execution, execution. So I'm going to stick with that, Jake. I think
[04:16.200 -> 04:17.980] that that feels good to me.
[04:17.980 -> 04:21.100] Jason Vale An execution queen. It sounds far more sinister
[04:21.100 -> 04:24.920] than it actually is. Let's talk about that then, because I think this is really helpful
[04:24.920 -> 04:28.200] for the people listening to this, whether they're CEOs like you, whether
[04:28.200 -> 04:31.560] they're entrepreneurs just starting out, whether they're teachers working with children, whether
[04:31.560 -> 04:36.360] they're parents trying to get their children to do a certain thing. What is the secret
[04:36.360 -> 04:39.840] to carrying out execution in a really effective way?
[04:39.840 -> 04:43.160] Lucy Walker-Griffiths So I think it has to start with real clarity
[04:43.160 -> 04:50.480] of message. So like for me, two years ago ago when I came here, you know, within four weeks of being here, I stood on
[04:50.800 -> 04:54.880] the stage, well actually it was a virtual stage because we were in the middle of COVID and laid out
[04:54.880 -> 04:56.920] what we thought the plan for review was going to be.
[04:57.240 -> 04:58.160] And it was really simple.
[04:58.160 -> 05:03.800] It was just three things, but it was three things that investors could get behind, three things that,
[05:04.120 -> 05:05.200] you know, our colleagues could get behind, the board could get behind, three things that, you know, our colleagues could
[05:05.200 -> 05:11.840] get behind, the board could get behind. And so that clarity is really important. I think that,
[05:11.840 -> 05:17.520] you know, for me anyway, every single person in this organization needs to be able to understand
[05:17.520 -> 05:24.080] what the strategy actually is and, you know, what good looks like. So you start there and then it's
[05:24.080 -> 05:25.480] about breaking it down
[05:25.480 -> 05:28.960] into the sort of component parts of what needs to be done.
[05:28.960 -> 05:31.320] And again, a real old-fashioned statement I know,
[05:31.320 -> 05:33.160] but what gets measured gets done.
[05:33.160 -> 05:37.200] So if it's diversity targets, if it's top-line targets,
[05:37.200 -> 05:41.120] if it's profit targets, if it's CO2 emissions,
[05:41.120 -> 05:44.300] we measure that and we make sure that we're on track
[05:44.300 -> 05:46.160] to really deliver. And, you know,
[05:46.160 -> 05:51.920] that's, it's not simple, obviously, but it is just about real focus on those things.
[05:51.920 -> 05:58.080] S. So tell us then, your own origin story, Amanda, as a girl from the Rhonda Valley,
[05:59.200 -> 06:05.720] is able to stand up in front of a room full of, you know, of thousands of people and deliver with such
[06:05.720 -> 06:08.160] clarity that kind of message?
[06:08.160 -> 06:14.800] So, yes, Rhonda Valley, right, you know, both my grandparents were miners and my grandfather
[06:14.800 -> 06:19.200] went down the mine at the age of 14 and he retired at the age of 60.
[06:19.200 -> 06:22.600] He died at the age of 99 and a half, which I think is incredible.
[06:22.600 -> 06:27.600] So I think there's a little bit of that Rhonda Valley resilience in there, which if you're going to stand up in front of thousands
[06:27.600 -> 06:32.400] of people and deliver something, you have to have that. But the key thing for me, I think,
[06:32.400 -> 06:36.800] honestly, was just totally in the upbringing, like my mum and dad and the way that everything was,
[06:37.600 -> 06:41.840] just the way we were brought up. So I went to Sunday school and, you know, it wasn't so much
[06:41.840 -> 06:49.360] about the religion. It was just about what everybody did and everybody went to Sunday school. And at Sunday school, it was about performance.
[06:49.360 -> 06:53.560] You would, we would, you know, we would have concerts. I would play the piano. I would
[06:53.560 -> 06:59.720] sing, I would do a recitation. And honestly, I think that I look back now at the age of,
[06:59.720 -> 07:06.000] I don't know, I would have been three, four, five, six, starting to do that until I was probably 13 or 14,
[07:06.000 -> 07:12.720] until obviously it becomes very uncool to do those sorts of things. And that has stood me in such good
[07:12.720 -> 07:18.640] stead. You know, I'm not saying that when I stand up on that stage, I will be nervous. I will be
[07:18.640 -> 07:23.840] thinking about what questions we could get asked, but I will always draw from that experience of
[07:23.840 -> 07:26.000] always having done it. And I think that makes such a big difference. y gallwn ni gael ei gofyn, ond byddwn i bob amser yn ddod o'r profiad hwnnw o bob amser wedi ei wneud, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n gwneud
[07:26.000 -> 07:32.000] ychydig o wahanol. Felly, dweud wrthym beth oedd yn digwydd yn y sefydliad honno, ac wrth iddyn nhw weld y
[07:32.000 -> 07:36.720] chwaraewraeth y byddai'r blant ifanc yn dod ar y stage a'n gwneud y cyflwr piano neu'n canu yn y cyfrin y grwp.
[07:36.720 -> 07:42.000] Pa fath o'r adroddiadau a oeddech chi'n clywed o'ch rhain o'ch rhain, a'ch rhain o'ch rhain, a'ch rhain o'ch rhain, a'r cymuned mwyaf?
[07:42.000 -> 07:46.480] Ie, rwy'n credu, roedd hynny'n hollol am ddynion. Rwy'n credu, wyt ti'n gwy mean, you know, in Wales, and even if it wasn't your direct family,
[07:46.480 -> 07:48.880] the community was the family.
[07:48.880 -> 07:51.080] Both my grandparents were very actively involved
[07:51.080 -> 07:52.240] in my upbringing.
[07:52.240 -> 07:54.800] You know, my mum worked in the local shop
[07:54.800 -> 07:55.800] and in the local factory.
[07:55.800 -> 07:58.360] My dad was more of a salesperson.
[07:58.360 -> 08:00.700] He was traveling all over the place.
[08:00.700 -> 08:02.200] So that environment was really strong,
[08:02.200 -> 08:04.000] but also it was really tough.
[08:04.000 -> 08:09.260] If you think about the time that I was growing up, the miners' strikes, and effectively that
[08:09.260 -> 08:17.020] whole Welsh community was falling apart because everybody was employed either in the mine
[08:17.020 -> 08:20.620] or in delivery of a service that delivered to the mine.
[08:20.620 -> 08:25.000] And so when the strikes happened in the sort of early 80s, my abiding memory is just of ac felly pan ddewisodd y strygau yn y debygau cyntaf,
[08:25.000 -> 08:30.000] fy nghyfres i'n ymwneud â'r ffaith o'r ffordd oedd hwnnw'n anodd iawn,
[08:30.000 -> 08:35.000] a chyfathrebu arian i'r rhifoedd, a chynnal cannau o ddewis a gwaith gwych
[08:35.000 -> 08:40.000] a chwythnos ar y drwyrydd, i'r bobl allu cymryd, ac roedd hynny'n wirioneddol, wirioneddol,
[08:40.000 -> 08:47.000] ond roedd bob amser yn ychydig o'r gwyl, roedd bob amser yn ychydig o'r cân, roedd bob amser yn ych, bob amser cant, bob amser cynghrair, ac roedd gennych ddod yn ddiogel.
[08:47.000 -> 08:50.000] Roedd gennych ddod yn ddiogel oedd y cymdeithas ffantastig i fynd i'r ffwrdd.
[08:50.000 -> 08:53.000] Ac nid wyf yn newid, dydw i ddim yn newid ar gyfer y byd.
[08:53.000 -> 09:08.080] Roedd ysgol cyfathrebu'n ddod yn ysgol cyffredinol, dim asbrydiaeth gwirioneddol, ond roedd yna lawer o ffdsoddiad, roedd yna lawer o ddiddordeb, roedd yna lawer o ddiddordeb, roedd yna lawer o ffrindiau. Ac rwy'n edrych yn ôl ar hynny ac rwy'n meddwl bod yn ddiddordeb wych,
[09:08.080 -> 09:13.600] ac rydych chi'n gwybod, yn wahanol iawn, rwy'n credu, i'r hyn y mae fy mhlentyn wedi'u cyrraedd i, yn siŵr.
[09:13.600 -> 09:18.320] Felly, pa ffigurau, fel arweinwyr nawr, yw'r cyfran o'r teulu, os ydych chi'n hoffi,
[09:18.320 -> 09:26.000] o Aviva, a byddwch chi'n ceisio cymryd o'r profiadau hynny a'u rhagwneud yn y byd corfforaethol? Mae rhai pethau rydych chi wedi dysgu, sydd, rydgu, sydd yn golygu y byddwch chi ar gael i ddewis eich hun,
[09:26.000 -> 09:28.000] er mwyn i chi ddewis.
[09:28.000 -> 09:30.000] Os ydych chi'n meddwl am yr amgylchedd,
[09:30.000 -> 09:32.000] roedd yn ddifrifol iawn
[09:32.000 -> 09:34.000] bod coel yn mynd i'r diwedd
[09:34.000 -> 09:36.000] o'i gyd,
[09:36.000 -> 09:38.000] y ffynonell a phopeth eraill.
[09:38.000 -> 09:40.000] Ond nid oedd y cymuned yn dewis ei hun.
[09:40.000 -> 09:42.000] Felly rwy'n credu,
[09:42.000 -> 09:44.000] fel cyfnod o hynny,
[09:44.000 -> 09:48.400] os byddwch chi'n mynd i'r Rhondda Ffyrdd heddiw, nid oes unrhyw ddysgwyr and everything else. And, but the community didn't transform itself. And so I think that as a consequence of that, if you were to go to the Rhonda Valley today, you know,
[09:48.400 -> 09:53.520] there really isn't any industry, there really isn't, isn't much going on. And so I think that's
[09:53.520 -> 09:57.040] the thing that I learned that you should do that didn't happen. And then there's the resilience,
[09:57.680 -> 10:02.880] you know, I think you do have to be super resilient in that environment. And as a CEO,
[10:02.880 -> 10:11.120] I mean, it is all about resilience because you are constantly reviewed. I mean, you know, if, if somebody writes something about Aviva,
[10:11.120 -> 10:16.080] whether it's the mail online or the financial times, if you dare to look at the comments
[10:16.080 -> 10:20.040] below the line, which by the way, I'd strongly never recommend doing, I'm sure you don't
[10:20.040 -> 10:25.160] yourself, you know, it's always really horrible or really critical. And you sort of never, if you took that too much to heart, you, you sort of wouldn't get up, you know, it's always really horrible or really critical. And you sort of never,
[10:25.160 -> 10:29.280] if you took that too much to heart, you, you sort of wouldn't get up, you know, you'd sort
[10:29.280 -> 10:33.000] of think, well, why bother? I don't want to be crass. So you've got to be able to take
[10:33.000 -> 10:34.840] feedback and be resilient, I think.
[10:34.840 -> 10:38.960] Jason Vale – And how have you learned the lesson about not looking at those comments?
[10:38.960 -> 10:41.960] A lot of people learn that lesson through looking at them and being affected.
[10:41.960 -> 10:45.200] Emma Wall – Yeah, I mean, honestly, I used to look at
[10:45.200 -> 10:49.760] them all the time because you'd want to know how something had landed. And, you know, you see, you
[10:49.760 -> 10:55.440] read the piece and often, of course, the journalist understands, you know, what's going on and you can
[10:55.440 -> 11:00.880] give them context, but the sort of readers don't always understand that. But then when you look
[11:00.880 -> 11:08.720] below the line and you see, you know, there was often a comment about, you know, what I was wearing or my hair or my makeup or, you know, my background or something.
[11:08.720 -> 11:13.280] And then you sort of think, actually, that's really not adding anything to my understanding
[11:13.280 -> 11:17.680] of whether or not, you know, that had gone well or not. And then when you speak to the journalists
[11:17.680 -> 11:22.160] themselves and they say to you, oh, we never look below the line, you know, and you sort of think,
[11:22.160 -> 11:27.100] well, okay, if they don't look below the line and they're writing the pieces, then, you know, I guess I'm not going to do that
[11:27.100 -> 11:28.100] either.
[11:28.100 -> 11:29.420] Paul Marks The thing is, though, I think your story is
[11:29.420 -> 11:33.780] a really good example about how we get things wrong so often. So someone could look at this
[11:33.780 -> 11:38.180] with no understanding and go, Amanda Blanc, what on earth does she know about running
[11:38.180 -> 11:41.580] Aviva because she grew up in the valleys in South Wales, and she's female, and there's
[11:41.580 -> 11:46.000] hardly any female CEOs in FTSE 100 businesses.
[11:46.000 -> 11:49.120] But actually the conversation we've had for the last 10 minutes is that the very reason
[11:49.120 -> 11:54.240] you're sitting having this conversation with us is because of the upbringing in the Valleys,
[11:54.240 -> 11:57.960] not in spite of it. And I sort of think back to, you know, you just said there's really
[11:57.960 -> 12:06.480] been no recovery there since Margaret Thatcher basically declared war really on the mines and on mining. And you can reflect
[12:06.480 -> 12:11.440] on that and say actually from a environmental perspective maybe it was
[12:11.440 -> 12:15.500] the right thing to stop mining in the way that we were. However it's about the
[12:15.500 -> 12:18.360] way you deliver the message, it's about the way you treat those people, it's
[12:18.360 -> 12:22.720] about the way you look after people and quite honestly it was brutal. So I wonder
[12:22.720 -> 12:28.080] whether your style of management was also inspired by the fact that you saw your people,
[12:28.080 -> 12:30.480] your wonderful people that you've just spoken about
[12:30.480 -> 12:32.240] being treated quite brutally.
[12:32.240 -> 12:34.200] I mean, I think Jake, that's absolutely right.
[12:34.200 -> 12:35.120] And not just there,
[12:35.120 -> 12:37.400] but all of your experiences through your career,
[12:37.400 -> 12:40.480] you always look at who does something well
[12:40.480 -> 12:41.720] and who does something not so well.
[12:41.720 -> 12:43.940] And I often think that you learn a lot more
[12:43.940 -> 12:45.500] from people who don't do things well
[12:45.500 -> 12:48.020] than you do from the people that do it brilliantly.
[12:48.020 -> 12:50.100] And if you look at,
[12:50.100 -> 12:52.860] there will always be tough decisions as a CEO.
[12:52.860 -> 12:55.100] There will be people that just don't fit anymore.
[12:55.100 -> 12:56.500] There will be parts of the business.
[12:56.500 -> 12:59.520] We have had to sell seven businesses
[12:59.520 -> 13:01.100] over the last two years
[13:01.100 -> 13:03.980] that have either owned in France and Italy and Poland
[13:03.980 -> 13:05.600] because we needed to refocus the
[13:05.600 -> 13:10.320] business on the markets that we felt we could be successful. Those weren't bad people.
[13:10.320 -> 13:14.320] And so when you deliver the message that, you know, we need to make this decision,
[13:14.320 -> 13:19.280] you need to deliver it with care and with thoughtfulness. And, you know, you talk about
[13:19.280 -> 13:23.280] there will be better owners for you than Aviva. There's better ways of doing it. And I think
[13:23.280 -> 13:28.320] that's right. You don't have to do things in a horrible way. You really don't. You can be really tough.
[13:28.320 -> 13:33.400] And, you know, my team will tell you that I can be really tough to work for. I'm relentless
[13:33.400 -> 13:38.080] and demanding, but at the same time, you can do it with a smile on your face and you can
[13:38.080 -> 13:43.220] do it in a nice way. And I think that, you know, that whole experience at that time,
[13:43.220 -> 13:47.960] it was brutal, but, you know, just the way things can be done, you know, it leaves a very,
[13:48.000 -> 13:50.640] I mean, even today, you know, it's still talked about.
[13:51.400 -> 13:53.520] So, you know, it's harsh, really harsh.
[13:53.720 -> 13:55.080] Where did the belief come from?
[13:55.280 -> 13:59.960] So you're, you're, you're living in Wales, you end up at university,
[13:59.960 -> 14:01.800] you go from university to taking jobs.
[14:01.800 -> 14:05.880] And like, was there a moment where you thought, I could really make something out of my life.
[14:05.880 -> 14:09.440] I don't need to just follow the path that maybe other people
[14:09.440 -> 14:12.760] feel is laid out in front of them when they come from where I come from.
[14:12.760 -> 14:14.960] Was there a person, a period, a moment where you thought,
[14:16.080 -> 14:18.320] life can be incredible if I really want it to be?
[14:18.560 -> 14:19.880] There was no one moment.
[14:20.160 -> 14:24.360] I think the belief came from my parents, which was always, you know,
[14:24.360 -> 14:27.360] about pushing you out there and making sure
[14:27.360 -> 14:30.840] that you got the most out of everything that you did.
[14:30.840 -> 14:33.680] They were not ambitious for me,
[14:33.680 -> 14:36.120] but they were never going to let anything hold you back.
[14:36.120 -> 14:38.680] I think you were born with that.
[14:38.680 -> 14:41.480] I think the moment where I knew that it could,
[14:41.480 -> 14:42.960] from a career perspective,
[14:42.960 -> 14:45.280] that it could be better was when
[14:45.280 -> 14:47.000] I got that.
[14:47.000 -> 14:50.320] I was sort of double promoted at the age of 28.
[14:50.320 -> 14:54.040] And it was that job I talked about in commercial union in Leicester, where I was the branch
[14:54.040 -> 14:56.760] manager and I was 28, 29.
[14:56.760 -> 15:00.440] I was basically the youngest and first female person to do that job.
[15:00.440 -> 15:05.760] And you walk into this office with 300 people and, you know, it was so daunting,
[15:05.760 -> 15:10.960] but at that point you thought, actually, I could really make something out of this. I'm
[15:10.960 -> 15:16.000] really good at this leadership thing. It's often said though, Amanda, that for you to
[15:16.000 -> 15:22.080] almost be that visionary, to look 20, 30 years into the future and see how a company or a
[15:22.080 -> 15:28.480] community needs to evolve, that there's three stages. At the first stage is people will ridicule a gweld sut mae cymdeithas neu gymuned yn rhaid i'w ddatblygu. Mae tri ffasg, y cyntaf y bydd pobl yn ymgyrchu'r syniad newydd,
[15:28.480 -> 15:33.440] yna byddant yn ei ddiddorio, cyn i'w ddod i'w cyflawni'n ddiwylliannol.
[15:33.440 -> 15:39.920] Felly, sut y gafwch chi ei wneud ac ymwneud â'r ystod o ddiddorol,
[15:39.920 -> 15:42.080] y diogelwch, y dynoliaeth,
[15:42.080 -> 15:45.440] pan ydych chi'n cyflwyno syniadau y gallai pobl ddim ei weld a'i ddiflannu'n anodd i'w cyfathrebu? that kindness, that humanity, when you're proposing ideas that people just can't see
[15:45.440 -> 15:47.200] and find it difficult to comprehend?
[15:47.200 -> 15:52.760] I think the best example of this is if you think about the net zero debate and, you know,
[15:52.760 -> 15:58.600] climate change. So first of all, you know, you start from a position of everybody denies
[15:58.600 -> 16:04.040] that it's a thing. You know, this is ridiculous. You know, this is not a thing. We had a hot
[16:04.040 -> 16:05.640] summer in 1977, you know, these things are going to know, this is not a thing. We had a hot summer in 1977.
[16:05.760 -> 16:06.840] You know, these things are going to happen.
[16:07.040 -> 16:12.120] And I think the way to get around all of that is through facts and through actually
[16:12.120 -> 16:15.640] talking people through your rationale and why you think it's important.
[16:16.000 -> 16:21.400] So, you know, as Aviva, as a company that has been alive for 325 years, I can't
[16:21.400 -> 16:23.000] just think about the next quarter.
[16:23.280 -> 16:25.280] I mean, the FTSE is about the next quarter, right?
[16:25.280 -> 16:28.840] You know, so we'll have report, we'll have results next week, and then we'll have results
[16:28.840 -> 16:33.360] in November, and then we'll have another set of results in March next year.
[16:33.360 -> 16:39.400] But I, as the CEO, have to think much further ahead than that in what we invest in, in the
[16:39.400 -> 16:43.480] businesses that we invest in, you know, we're leveling up across the UK, for example.
[16:43.480 -> 16:51.680] We are one of the biggest investors in UK infrastructure. If we simply thought about the next quarter, we wouldn't get there.
[16:51.680 -> 16:57.200] And people do ridicule, well, I mean, these climate change companies, all these new ideas,
[16:57.200 -> 17:02.720] these... I mean, I can remember when the wind turbines went up first in the Rhondda Valley,
[17:02.720 -> 17:05.360] actually, and they went up in the forest,
[17:05.360 -> 17:10.080] which was like above, my dad could see it from his house. And oh my gosh, I mean, he was like,
[17:10.960 -> 17:16.880] those bloody things, they've ruined my view, this is absolutely terrible. And that was, I don't know,
[17:16.880 -> 17:23.520] 15, maybe more years ago. But now today, you see that they are actually supplying a significant
[17:23.520 -> 17:26.400] amount of energy into that community and wider.
[17:26.400 -> 17:30.600] And therefore, you know, they're making a massive difference in this energy crisis that we're in today.
[17:30.600 -> 17:35.600] So I think, you know, you have to go through those various stages to get people, to get people into it.
[17:35.600 -> 17:37.600] But facts usually make a big difference.
[17:37.600 -> 17:43.600] So let's talk about the transition then from growing up in Wales to ending up where you are now.
[17:43.600 -> 17:45.120] I know that when you, when you left
[17:45.120 -> 17:50.160] university, you had two job offers and you took the harder option. Can you explain to us why the
[17:50.160 -> 17:55.120] job that you took was the harder option? Yeah. So, I mean, I left university, I did a degree
[17:55.120 -> 17:58.560] in history, which my children laugh at me about now, you know, they're like, what do you know
[17:58.560 -> 18:02.480] about history? Um, but it was a means to an end, you know, you sort of finished and then it was
[18:02.480 -> 18:09.000] like, okay, what am I going to do? And yeah Chymdeithas Cymreig Midglamorgan ac un gyda Chymdeithas Gweithredol,
[18:09.000 -> 18:16.000] sydd wedi bod yn un o'r cymdeithasau cyfrifol o Aviva. Felly, rydw i wedi dod i'r ddewis yma lle ddechreuais.
[18:16.000 -> 18:27.000] Ac byddai eisiau bod yn eithaf hwn, a wnaeth i gyd, yw, byw gyda fy mam a'r tat,neud fy ngwasg, gwella'r gymuned lle rydych chi'n ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod yn ddod in
[18:27.000 -> 18:29.000] yn dddod yn ddod yn ddod in
[18:29.000 -> 18:31.000] yn ddod yn ddod in
[18:31.000 -> 18:33.000] yn ddod in
[18:33.000 -> 18:35.000] yn ddod in
[18:35.000 -> 18:37.000] yn ddod in
[18:37.000 -> 18:39.000] yn ddod in
[18:39.000 -> 18:41.000] yn ddod in
[18:41.000 -> 18:43.000] yn ddod in
[18:43.000 -> 18:49.040] yn ddod in yn ddod in yn ddod in up and you learn about insurance and then you think, actually, this is really a fantastic industry to be in. And I'm going to, you know, I'm quite enjoying this, but it was, you know,
[18:49.040 -> 18:52.360] it wasn't the easiest decision to take. It would have been much easier to stay at home.
[18:52.360 -> 18:57.480] So why did you take it then? If I reflect back on my career, I just, I do like the hard
[18:57.480 -> 19:02.560] option. You know, coming here two years ago was not the easy option.
[19:02.560 -> 19:07.520] You've said that in quite a, quite an easy way that I always take the
[19:07.520 -> 19:12.480] harder option, but take us into your head when you're making those decisions and help us
[19:12.480 -> 19:18.560] understand why that's the case. I think, you know, when I'm going through this, it's basically, you
[19:18.560 -> 19:26.080] know, what is, what could be the likely outcomes here? So you start to think about, you know, you've got a reputation where you,
[19:26.080 -> 19:32.720] which I've built up over sort of 30 years of being, being in business. But then you get the opportunity to actually
[19:32.720 -> 19:40.920] fix something, which you inherently believe is fantastic, but has been badly managed or badly led or bad decisions
[19:40.920 -> 19:46.880] have been taken. And you think, Actually, do you know what? I could do a better job than that.
[19:46.880 -> 19:49.440] And then you have to have a bit of confidence.
[19:49.440 -> 19:52.560] So my head is thinking, could I do a better job than that?
[19:52.560 -> 19:54.520] Yeah, I think I probably could.
[19:54.520 -> 19:56.160] I think I'm probably a good leader.
[19:56.160 -> 19:58.120] I think I'm probably a good communicator.
[19:58.120 -> 19:59.720] I think I probably know what needs to be done.
[19:59.720 -> 20:02.000] And by the way, I do get shit done.
[20:02.000 -> 20:06.080] So I sort of, I thought, actually, I think, I think I could do it.
[20:06.080 -> 20:09.760] I think I really could. And then you have to back yourself. And of course, you know,
[20:09.760 -> 20:14.320] you've got people around you who will back you, my husband, you know, my family, and
[20:14.320 -> 20:19.760] you know, they're, they're always so supportive. And I think with that support and your own
[20:19.760 -> 20:24.680] confidence and you have to have a bit of arrogance, you know, you have to think I can do it even
[20:24.680 -> 20:25.240] though countless others have failed. And then you just get on with it and you put yourself And you have to have a bit of arrogance, you know, you have to think I can do it even though
[20:25.240 -> 20:27.160] countless others have failed.
[20:27.160 -> 20:30.760] And then you just get on with it and you put yourself out there, but you've got to be,
[20:30.760 -> 20:33.200] you've got to have a bit of confidence, I think.
[20:33.200 -> 20:35.560] Steve McLaughlin But there's a really interesting distinction
[20:35.560 -> 20:41.280] there between, uh, in a number of those examples that you've just offered us, Amanda, around
[20:41.280 -> 20:47.800] some people would, given that 30 years of success and the portfolio and the reputation for delivery
[20:47.800 -> 20:52.340] that you've got, would look to not lose that reputation.
[20:52.340 -> 20:54.920] So they'd almost play it safe,
[20:54.920 -> 20:57.280] whereas you're still looking to play to win,
[20:57.280 -> 21:01.460] to take risks, to put that great name on the line.
[21:01.460 -> 21:04.000] So how do you mitigate against the two
[21:04.000 -> 21:05.840] of playing not to lose and instead
[21:05.840 -> 21:07.200] focusing on playing to win?
[21:07.200 -> 21:11.500] Well, I think you mitigate by ensuring that when you, you know, when you sign up to do
[21:11.500 -> 21:16.760] something like, like this, you know, it isn't just you, I'm one person and there are like
[21:16.760 -> 21:23.280] 23,000 other people that work for Aviva. One of the key mitigants for me is having the
[21:23.280 -> 21:25.280] best team around you.
[21:29.760 -> 21:34.040] So, you know, the first thing, and I've changed the vast majority of my executive team, you know, like 12 out of 14 in two years.
[21:34.520 -> 21:38.720] And I think you do have to have the best people that you believe give
[21:38.720 -> 21:40.000] you the best chance to win.
[21:40.360 -> 21:46.160] And then what you hope is that they then bring in, you know, the best people that they give them
[21:46.160 -> 21:47.160] the chance to win.
[21:47.160 -> 21:50.160] And some of those people have come from inside the organization and some of them have come
[21:50.160 -> 21:51.160] from outside the organization.
[21:51.160 -> 21:57.000] But I think having that ability to identify who is going to be on this journey with me
[21:57.000 -> 22:02.520] through the tough times and through the good times, that's a leadership thing, which I
[22:02.520 -> 22:05.280] think over 30 years, you do develop that sort of, you
[22:05.280 -> 22:07.480] know, sense of who's good and who's not.
[22:07.480 -> 22:10.440] Paul Mason So give us a masterclass on, on how you develop
[22:10.440 -> 22:11.440] that then.
[22:11.440 -> 22:13.960] What do you go for as a team member?
[22:13.960 -> 22:15.560] Emma Wall So I think it depends on what you're looking
[22:15.560 -> 22:16.560] for in the team.
[22:16.560 -> 22:20.320] So at any one point in time, of course, the team is in a different state of flex, but at
[22:20.320 -> 22:23.520] the very, very beginning, you're looking to fill your core roles.
[22:23.520 -> 22:28.000] I mean, you know, the things that are, that are going to make the biggest difference to the outcome.
[22:28.000 -> 22:33.840] And then you can't, no compromise. You have to have the best people into those roles. So for me,
[22:33.840 -> 22:39.200] that was the CEO roles of running the divisions of the business and making sure that those people
[22:39.200 -> 22:44.880] were absolutely brilliant. And, you know, and getting on with doing that, making the tough
[22:44.880 -> 22:45.760] decisions very, very quickly and early on that you have to do that on with doing that, making the tough decisions very,
[22:45.760 -> 22:49.280] very quickly and early on that you have to do that. By the way, I should have said,
[22:49.840 -> 22:54.880] attitude over anything else. It's about behavior. Will Barron.
[22:54.880 -> 22:56.800] Even attitude over ability? Angela McKenzie.
[22:56.800 -> 23:01.760] Yes. Capability, I would say. Yes. Because I think, you know, there's a very old fashioned
[23:01.760 -> 23:08.800] hire for attitude, train for skill. You have to have the right attitude because I do not want to work with people who are
[23:08.800 -> 23:10.800] poorly behaved or just can't do it.
[23:10.800 -> 23:12.800] I mean, obviously you have to have some capability.
[23:12.800 -> 23:16.760] If you're the finance director, then you probably have to do know quite a bit about numbers,
[23:16.760 -> 23:21.720] but really, you know, it is about, have you got the right core values and behaviors to
[23:21.720 -> 23:23.000] be able to do a good job?
[23:23.000 -> 23:31.360] And then you build out from there. And I would say, you know, it is only now, two years in, that I've got the team in the place where I really want it to be.
[23:31.360 -> 23:47.040] And, you know, I can remember within the first three months, you know, an external saying to me, well, you're a bit slow. You haven't changed much of your team yet. And I was like, yeah, give me a chance, right? I mean, you know, these things are, you have to be thoughtful about it,
[23:47.040 -> 23:48.840] but also the bigger the organization,
[23:48.840 -> 23:51.340] the more difficult it is to get that right.
[23:51.340 -> 23:52.800] You know, in a smaller organization,
[23:52.800 -> 23:54.160] you can do it pretty quickly,
[23:54.160 -> 23:55.200] but in a bigger organization,
[23:55.200 -> 23:57.880] you have to be more thoughtful about what's required.
[23:57.880 -> 24:00.480] You mentioned values and behaviors.
[24:00.480 -> 24:03.180] What are the values and behaviors that you're looking for?
[24:03.180 -> 24:06.040] I hate anything where it's all about a me, me, me.
[24:06.040 -> 24:08.480] It is about teams, so I call it one of either here.
[24:08.480 -> 24:11.200] So, you know, it's about, you may be in the life company
[24:11.200 -> 24:13.000] or you may be in the general insurance company,
[24:13.000 -> 24:15.840] but when you join my team as Xco,
[24:15.840 -> 24:17.920] you have to think about what's best for the group.
[24:17.920 -> 24:19.080] And not many people have that
[24:19.080 -> 24:21.680] because some people can be really successful
[24:21.680 -> 24:23.200] and they can be really good at winning,
[24:23.200 -> 24:28.000] but to the detriment of everybody else. And, you know ar y pwysau o bawb eraill.
[24:28.000 -> 24:36.000] Ac mae hynny'n ddiddorol pan fyddwch chi'n rhedeg grŵp. Rwy'n credu hefyd bod y teimlad o ran y cymuned yn y ffordd nad yw'n unig am y cyfrif,
[24:36.000 -> 24:45.080] mae'n fwy o ran y gydraddoldeb o gyfraithoedd, y rôl rydyn ni'n chwarae yn y cymuned a'r rôl rydyn ni'n chwarae yn allanol. community, and the role we play externally. So you can't just be want to win for Aviva.
[24:45.080 -> 24:48.480] You've also got to win for insurance. You've got to win for Norwich. You've got to win
[24:48.480 -> 24:53.240] for York. You've got to win for all the places where we've got big presence. So there's also
[24:53.240 -> 24:57.800] that. And then I think there's some emotional intelligence, you know, having that ability
[24:57.800 -> 25:02.040] to sit in the team and understand what the hell is going on, because there's often a
[25:02.040 -> 25:05.120] lot of politics going on around any around any room. I think that's
[25:05.120 -> 25:06.760] also really important to me.
[25:06.760 -> 25:10.320] Jason Vale – And I just want to pick up on one other thing, because lots of people
[25:10.320 -> 25:14.920] struggle with making changes. They particularly struggle with removing people from a team
[25:14.920 -> 25:18.120] that they don't think are right for that team. And, you know, you've changed 12 of
[25:18.120 -> 25:24.400] your 14 senior team members. That's, I don't know, rough maths, 90% change, right? How
[25:24.400 -> 25:27.320] have you delivered that to not just make the change
[25:27.320 -> 25:29.520] that Aviva needs, but to make the change
[25:29.520 -> 25:31.200] that also sort of protects them?
[25:31.200 -> 25:34.200] How do you go about having those conversations with people?
[25:34.200 -> 25:36.040] It is the most difficult thing.
[25:36.040 -> 25:37.080] I mean, there's no doubt about that.
[25:37.080 -> 25:38.280] I mean, it does get easier.
[25:38.280 -> 25:40.080] I mean, I probably shouldn't say that.
[25:40.080 -> 25:41.680] It does get easier the more you've done it
[25:41.680 -> 25:43.720] because you know, you think about, you know,
[25:43.720 -> 25:47.200] what the best way of delivering the news is. But quite often when you're having the conversation
[25:47.200 -> 25:52.400] with people, they already know. They already know because they can see the way the business is
[25:52.400 -> 25:57.840] moving. They can see the way the strategy is developing and they can often see they're not
[25:57.840 -> 26:01.920] going to be happy in that strategy because you've got to remember this is a two, it is a two-way
[26:01.920 -> 26:05.880] process. You know, I'm making a decision that I think I want this sort of
[26:05.880 -> 26:10.480] person for the team, but they're also making the decision that they don't want to be, they don't, you know, they
[26:10.480 -> 26:16.120] don't agree with the strategy, or they don't, they don't feel they want to be part of that journey. So quite often, by
[26:16.120 -> 26:22.480] the time you sit down and have the conversation, you're in a good place. You know, it's very rarely that you're
[26:22.480 -> 26:25.040] delivering a news to somebody when they've no clue that that news is coming, I have to say, you know, it's very rarely that you're delivering a news to somebody when they've
[26:25.040 -> 26:29.380] no clue that that news is coming. I have to say, you know, that that's not often the case.
[26:29.380 -> 26:33.380] And then it's about elegance and it's about how do you do that in a way that, you know,
[26:33.380 -> 26:37.040] keeps everybody that they, you know, it's, it's good for them and it's good for the organization.
[26:37.040 -> 26:42.140] So can I ask you Amanda about a question that we often get asked from listeners on this
[26:42.140 -> 26:45.560] about the managing of sort of your maverick or your
[26:45.560 -> 26:52.140] superstar talents, because when you were describing this attitude over behaviour, I think most
[26:52.140 -> 26:56.980] people can understand that, that that's preferable. But how would you deal with somebody that's
[26:56.980 -> 27:02.480] delivering great results for you, but isn't doing it in the right way, demonstrating those
[27:02.480 -> 27:09.760] values and behaviours that you demand? So, first of all, I think, you know, when you say delivering, if they're not delivering
[27:09.760 -> 27:15.080] and the values and they're not delivering, because so the way that I measure the scorecard
[27:15.080 -> 27:19.720] of the performance here is we do look at the financials. We also look at the customer outcomes,
[27:19.720 -> 27:24.160] but we also look at somebody delivering on the, against the values and every one of those
[27:24.160 -> 27:25.160] is assessed, right?
[27:25.160 -> 27:27.720] So it could be a delivering.
[27:27.720 -> 27:30.720] It's usually a top line or profitability.
[27:30.720 -> 27:32.880] So first of all, you have the conversation, which is,
[27:32.880 -> 27:33.920] look, I love what you're doing.
[27:33.920 -> 27:35.420] The results are absolutely brilliant.
[27:35.420 -> 27:37.720] But you can't do that.
[27:37.720 -> 27:39.560] You can't do it that way.
[27:39.560 -> 27:43.240] And sometimes, just even that conversation of, oh, right,
[27:43.240 -> 27:46.480] I hadn't realized that it was having that impact on other people.
[27:46.480 -> 27:49.720] Because quite often, honestly, people do just, they just bury their head in the sand and
[27:49.720 -> 27:51.160] they just say, oh, I'm going to ignore that.
[27:51.160 -> 27:53.680] I'm going to pretend that that's not happening.
[27:53.680 -> 27:58.140] You know, you can do that for so long, but ultimately then your own credibility is shot
[27:58.140 -> 28:01.360] to pieces because I can be on here going, it's all about values.
[28:01.360 -> 28:04.960] And if my team can say, well, I listened to that podcast, Amanda, but you've got two people
[28:04.960 -> 28:06.080] in your team that you let that behavior happen. That's just about values. And if my team can say, well, I listened to that podcast, Amanda, but you've got two people in your team
[28:06.080 -> 28:07.520] that you let that behavior happen.
[28:07.520 -> 28:09.020] That's just not acceptable.
[28:09.020 -> 28:10.320] So I think you have the conversation.
[28:10.320 -> 28:13.200] Then ultimately, honestly, if the behaviors are not right,
[28:13.200 -> 28:14.480] you do have to deal with it.
[28:14.480 -> 28:15.300] It's tough.
[28:15.300 -> 28:17.480] So it sounds the way that you're describing it,
[28:17.480 -> 28:18.320] that you could almost say
[28:18.320 -> 28:22.280] that a big part of your role as a leader is to be a coach.
[28:22.280 -> 28:24.840] What are the best coaching questions
[28:24.840 -> 28:25.920] that you could advise
[28:25.920 -> 28:30.560] our listeners they could ask that gets people both delivering
[28:30.560 -> 28:33.160] results and doing it in the right way?
[28:33.160 -> 28:35.640] Yeah, gosh, I've never thought about it like that
[28:35.640 -> 28:38.200] because I would say almost every conversation I have
[28:38.200 -> 28:42.040] is a coaching conversation really, you know, internally,
[28:42.040 -> 28:44.780] because you're always thinking about how can you improve
[28:44.780 -> 28:46.000] the performance. So I usually always start with, okay, because you're always thinking about how can you improve the performance. So,
[28:46.000 -> 28:50.480] I usually always start with, okay, what's going well, then you move into the, okay,
[28:50.480 -> 28:54.160] what, so what would you do differently if you look back over the last six months?
[28:54.160 -> 28:58.960] And quite often people will, you know, they will focus on the things that they want to focus on,
[28:58.960 -> 29:02.880] but you then, you know, you know, you've done your notes, you know what you want to get to,
[29:02.880 -> 29:05.840] and eventually you can get the conversation into the place that you want to get to.
[29:05.840 -> 29:07.920] And then you agree an action plan
[29:07.920 -> 29:10.520] of what you're going to do differently going forward.
[29:10.520 -> 29:12.000] I mean, it seems really simple.
[29:12.000 -> 29:12.880] Even listening to it,
[29:12.880 -> 29:14.860] I think probably that's a bit simplistic.
[29:14.860 -> 29:18.120] But just allowing people the time to just talk
[29:18.120 -> 29:20.960] and those performance conversations
[29:20.960 -> 29:22.800] are really, really key to me.
[29:22.800 -> 29:26.120] And then I'll write the app and I'll,
[29:26.120 -> 29:29.300] and I'll send it to, to, to them and say, you know, this is what, this is what we talked
[29:29.300 -> 29:33.360] about. And so we can think, we can think about it then the next time we meet. And I meet
[29:33.360 -> 29:39.200] with my ex, my ex-co once a week, you know, in terms of as an ex-co we meet. So those,
[29:39.200 -> 29:42.920] even a team performance coaching conversations all the way around, not just, you know, me
[29:42.920 -> 29:48.160] coaching them, coaching me and everybody. And then the, the performance, you know, we have a monthly one-to-one.
[29:48.160 -> 29:49.760] Paul Mason So who coaches you then?
[29:49.760 -> 29:54.000] Anna McVeigh So I have had lots of coaches. I mean, you know,
[29:54.000 -> 29:58.320] if I think back through my career, you know, you've had the informal coach and the formal coach,
[29:58.320 -> 30:03.120] haven't you? And, you know, my very first, sort of boss that had a big impact on me,
[30:03.120 -> 30:06.840] I can remember walking into his room in Leeds and he was lying on the floor.
[30:06.840 -> 30:11.120] And I said to him, he was called Alan Dewey and he'll know if he listens to this.
[30:11.120 -> 30:12.120] And I said, what are you doing?
[30:12.120 -> 30:13.600] He said, I'm blue sky thinking.
[30:13.600 -> 30:16.000] And I was like, okay.
[30:16.000 -> 30:20.360] But he was a brilliant, he was a totally brilliant coach because he constantly pushed, pushed
[30:20.360 -> 30:23.640] me and pushed for performance, encouraged me to do my MBA.
[30:23.640 -> 30:29.120] And you know, he was, he was brilliant. And then there have been subsequent other people that I've worked with or known
[30:29.680 -> 30:35.840] that I've turned to for, you know, for, for coaching advice and they make a big impact on you.
[30:35.840 -> 30:40.320] But, you know, I would also say everybody that I work with, I always treat every conversation as
[30:40.320 -> 30:46.480] that. What am I going to learn from this conversation? And I think that's, you have to go into every
[30:46.480 -> 30:50.280] conversation like that. If you go in with an arrogance of this, this organization's
[30:50.280 -> 30:53.800] perfect and I'm doing everything right, you're not going to be successful.
[30:53.800 -> 30:55.800] Paul Mayes So tell us your best learning then.
[30:55.800 -> 30:58.600] Angela Mayes Oh gosh. I mean, there's been like so many,
[30:58.600 -> 30:59.600] hasn't there?
[30:59.600 -> 31:00.640] Paul Mayes Give us more than one then we'll, we'll take
[31:00.640 -> 31:01.640] as many as you want to deliver.
[31:01.640 -> 31:02.640] Angela Mayes Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Right.
[31:02.640 -> 31:04.700] Paul Mayes The point is, Amanda, there's real value
[31:04.700 -> 31:06.720] for people in hearing you talk in this way, you
[31:06.720 -> 31:10.920] know, and then it gets passed to you and then it gets passed on to hundreds of thousands
[31:10.920 -> 31:12.960] of people on here, which I think is just of benefit.
[31:12.960 -> 31:18.040] Amanda Atkinson One of my very early learnings around communication,
[31:18.040 -> 31:21.680] I mean, and again, it may sound really simple, is that you sort of assume that when you do
[31:21.680 -> 31:31.040] a communication that it gets cascaded in the same way that you've given that communication through the organization. And I soon learned that actually that does not
[31:31.040 -> 31:36.960] happen. So by the time that it gets to the actual people who front up to customers,
[31:37.600 -> 31:40.320] if you're not careful, it's nothing like the communication that it started with.
[31:40.320 -> 31:49.520] So one of the things I've always done for the last sort of 10, 12 years is ensure that I do either like a roadshow or a very big town halls on a regular basis so
[31:49.520 -> 31:53.560] I can actually deliver my own communication to the business so that the business can hear
[31:53.560 -> 31:58.880] from me what I'm worried about, what I'm really pleased about, what I really need from them.
[31:58.880 -> 32:03.120] You know, I think that's one of my key learnings, which I would never not do.
[32:03.120 -> 32:05.600] And even during COVID, when I couldn't get out to the
[32:05.600 -> 32:12.880] business, I would do virtual town halls, and I would call into customer service teams and listen
[32:12.880 -> 32:19.040] to them. The other thing I think is you have to listen, be your own customer. And we've not
[32:19.040 -> 32:25.600] cracked this at Aviva yet, but one of my key learnings is, you know, you think, because the data you get, you're getting
[32:25.600 -> 32:30.800] is, is a certain way. And then you sort of, because I'm, I've got quite a high profile now
[32:30.800 -> 32:36.080] on LinkedIn and Twitter, various other things, people will complain directly to me. I get these
[32:36.080 -> 32:40.800] complaints and I'm like, really? You know, that's sort of not, doesn't really stack with what I'm
[32:40.800 -> 32:48.960] hearing. So being your own customer, and I say this to the exco all the time, and they get sort of sick of me saying it, allows you to experience what
[32:48.960 -> 32:55.520] it's like to be a customer, good or bad. So you need to know what it's like for your customers
[32:55.520 -> 32:59.640] dealing with your organization. And you can do that by being your own customer, by also
[32:59.640 -> 33:04.400] listening to the people on the frontline. Never distance yourself so much. You're in
[33:04.400 -> 33:07.800] your bloody ivory tower, so far away from everything else that's going on
[33:07.800 -> 33:12.200] that you do not know what's actually happening in your own organization.
[33:12.200 -> 33:14.840] I mean, look, just a bit about reviews.
[33:14.840 -> 33:17.920] I've had many bosses I've never had a review with.
[33:17.920 -> 33:20.360] They've never told me how I'm doing.
[33:20.360 -> 33:26.360] And just that regular review, you know, sitting down with the team, talking about how we are doing as a team
[33:26.360 -> 33:28.560] or how we are doing individually.
[33:28.560 -> 33:30.960] That's really, really, really important.
[33:30.960 -> 33:32.720] I'm also interested to know
[33:32.720 -> 33:34.960] about what you learn in the difficult times.
[33:34.960 -> 33:36.960] You know, if we look at the trajectory of your career,
[33:36.960 -> 33:39.520] it was an upward trajectory,
[33:39.520 -> 33:41.760] really impressive, making moves.
[33:41.760 -> 33:44.080] There was a period where you went to Zurich, wasn't there,
[33:44.080 -> 33:49.540] which didn't work out. and I'm interested really in, without going into specifics
[33:49.540 -> 33:55.360] obviously, why it was hard for you but also the importance for people to hear
[33:55.360 -> 33:59.120] you talk about the importance of leaving behind things that are not good for you
[33:59.120 -> 34:02.320] or aren't working out for you, which can sometimes be the harder decision because
[34:02.320 -> 34:04.580] it's scary to walk away.
[34:04.580 -> 34:06.240] So my career has not always been an upward
[34:06.240 -> 34:10.480] trajectory and it's not always been plain sailing. And I say this, you know, to the graduates here and
[34:10.480 -> 34:16.160] to the apprentices here that I have made mistakes and I have made big mistakes. Moving on quickly
[34:16.160 -> 34:19.680] from your mistakes is, I think, really important if you know you've got it wrong. And Zurich was a
[34:19.680 -> 34:27.600] good example of that. I thought that going to Zurich was going to be a really important step on my upward career. And I
[34:27.600 -> 34:35.200] think it was a fantastic lesson for me that culture is everything. And if you, if you can't fit into that culture,
[34:35.680 -> 34:43.320] then, you know, if that organization isn't going to change, then you need to make the change yourself. And honestly, I
[34:43.320 -> 34:46.320] left, and I did not know what I was going to do.
[34:46.320 -> 34:49.560] But being brave to make the right decision when you know it's not right.
[34:49.560 -> 34:53.640] I say it all the time to people, you know, I think they think I'm joking, but I've made
[34:53.640 -> 34:54.640] the decisions.
[34:54.640 -> 34:58.200] I've made those mistakes and it's important to make mistakes and learn from them.
[34:58.200 -> 35:00.400] So tell us about bravery then.
[35:00.400 -> 35:02.160] You just referenced it there.
[35:02.160 -> 35:08.740] Like I think of all the things that I've read about your career and your background, Amanda, is the bravery that you have to speak truth to
[35:08.740 -> 35:16.960] power, to call out behaviors that are unacceptable, even when you, like, maybe you're compromised
[35:16.960 -> 35:21.760] or maybe it's going to cost you. Tell us a little bit around how you develop that.
[35:21.760 -> 35:27.000] Yeah, well, I've always liked to speak out. I've never been shy about speaking out
[35:27.000 -> 35:29.000] if I believe that it fits for the right thing.
[35:29.000 -> 35:31.000] I think that starts with my background, honestly.
[35:31.000 -> 35:33.000] I do.
[35:33.000 -> 35:35.000] But also, you know, you sort of see people
[35:35.000 -> 35:37.000] bitching and moaning about things,
[35:37.000 -> 35:39.000] and you're like, well, tell them, you know,
[35:39.000 -> 35:41.000] tell them what you want differently.
[35:41.000 -> 35:42.000] Speak up, speak up.
[35:42.000 -> 35:43.000] So I've done that.
[35:43.000 -> 35:45.360] It doesn't always work, honestly. Some people do not want differently? Speak up, speak up. So I've, I've done that. It doesn't always work.
[35:51.760 -> 35:56.080] Honestly, some people do not want to hear the truth. They definitely do not. Um, but I do genuinely believe that, you know, if you can look, if you want to look yourself in the mirror,
[35:56.080 -> 36:00.960] if you want to have it and say, you've got integrity, then you've got to hold yourself
[36:00.960 -> 36:04.080] to account. And sometimes it's painful and sometimes it doesn't, you know, it doesn't
[36:04.080 -> 36:08.520] really work, but you've got to do it. And, you know, I'm, I'm sure you
[36:08.520 -> 36:14.960] might be referring to the AGM, um, which happened, uh, this year where these men think they can
[36:14.960 -> 36:19.560] say this stuff, you know, it's not acceptable, but you know, in the heat of the moment, you
[36:19.560 -> 36:20.880] don't always see it.
[36:20.880 -> 36:25.120] So what was it that they did actually say? Because I think it's helpful for people to
[36:25.120 -> 36:32.080] understand how it can often be subtle and maybe insidious what people say rather than directly
[36:32.720 -> 36:38.320] abusive. Yeah. So there was, you know, I think there were sort of three comments and it's all
[36:38.320 -> 36:42.080] on records because it's recorded. So, you know, there's no sort of getting away from it. The
[36:42.080 -> 36:52.000] first was just that they were very, there was a comment, which was, they were very pleased that Ond, wrth gwrs, nid oes unrhyw ffordd o allu mynd allan o hynny. Yr un cyntaf oedd y cyfraith, a oedd yn ddiddorol iawn, fod nifer o fwyfyr ar y bwrd, oherwydd mae'r fwyfyr yn dda iawn ar y cael ymhell.
[36:52.000 -> 37:05.000] Ac roedd hynny'n beth da. Felly roedd y cyfraith cyntaf yn sefydlu'r ton. Ac yna cyfraith arall oedd, roedd angen i mi ddod yn ôl. that I should wear trousers and that I was no,
[37:05.360 -> 37:06.740] they referred to the previous CEO,
[37:06.740 -> 37:10.380] that I was no, whoever this previous CEO was.
[37:10.380 -> 37:13.540] And then the third one was that I wasn't the man for the job.
[37:14.720 -> 37:17.440] And so, these were comments which honestly,
[37:17.440 -> 37:18.600] you're in the middle of an AGM
[37:18.600 -> 37:21.760] and an AGM's a very strange experience
[37:21.760 -> 37:23.280] as if you've ever experienced one.
[37:23.280 -> 37:25.800] You literally are on a stage and you are thinking
[37:25.800 -> 37:27.960] about every question that can come at you.
[37:27.960 -> 37:30.280] You do not expect those comments to come at you.
[37:30.280 -> 37:32.480] And then it's only when I got on a plane to Canada
[37:32.480 -> 37:34.080] and landed in Canada and thought,
[37:34.080 -> 37:36.920] do you know what, actually, my phone was sort of pinging
[37:36.920 -> 37:38.360] because the FT were in the room.
[37:38.360 -> 37:39.640] The FT were actually in the room
[37:39.640 -> 37:42.040] and they had picked up on those comments.
[37:42.040 -> 37:44.200] And it was like, that's just not on.
[37:44.200 -> 37:46.000] It's actually not on. I'm ddim yn ddiolch.
[37:46.000 -> 37:48.000] Dwi'n ymgyrchwyr Gwleidyddol a Chyfrifolion.
[37:48.000 -> 37:50.000] Ac rwy'n credu mae gen i gyrfa ddynol iawn.
[37:50.000 -> 37:52.000] Ac rwy'n credu mae gen i gyrfa ddynol iawn
[37:52.000 -> 37:54.000] gyda Reva, ac dyna ddim yn ddiolch.
[37:54.000 -> 37:56.000] Ie, oherwydd yr hyn rwyf wedi mwynhau,
[37:56.000 -> 37:58.000] rwy'n cofio cyfnod o lawer o blwyddyn
[37:58.000 -> 38:00.000] yn fy nhyrfa fy hun pan
[38:00.000 -> 38:02.000] rai pobl wnaethu cyfraith gysylltiadol
[38:02.000 -> 38:04.000] yn fy mhroffi.
[38:04.000 -> 38:07.680] Ac rwy'n cofio fy nhyrfod oedd i fod yn ymdrech, made a racist comment in my company and I remember my reaction was to be shocked first of all and
[38:07.680 -> 38:14.640] then almost wonder am I being set up for some kind of joke or you know was it intended with humour
[38:14.640 -> 38:20.000] and like I was trying to process lots of different confusing thoughts before I reached that conclusion
[38:20.000 -> 38:25.200] of actually that's not acceptable and needs to be challenged. And that's what I'm wondering
[38:25.200 -> 38:30.560] on that stage, when you were listening to that, what were the kind of thought processes
[38:30.560 -> 38:35.840] that were going on for you? Well, I think the first process is, you know, how, so how dare they,
[38:35.840 -> 38:39.840] you know, you know, what, what, what are these people that they're sort of making this comment?
[38:39.840 -> 38:44.160] That's the first point. And then you leave the stage because, you know, you're in, we're only
[38:44.160 -> 38:48.320] up there for like 45, 50 minutes. And then you walk into a room and obviously there's loads of my team were
[38:48.320 -> 38:53.520] there preparing questions and, and they walked in and they went, that was out of order. You know,
[38:53.520 -> 38:58.000] it was their immediate reaction was that was completely out of order. And you're like, yes,
[38:58.000 -> 39:01.600] it was, it was out of order. Then, you know, you think, okay, well, what can I do about it?
[39:01.600 -> 39:07.360] Cause you're off the stage at that point, aren't you? And, and, and then obviously the FT picked it up and you sort of think,
[39:07.360 -> 39:13.360] actually, I can turn this into something good. So by making the sort of LinkedIn post and writing
[39:13.360 -> 39:17.840] about it in the way that I did, I think that was right. But, but Damien, just to go back to your
[39:17.840 -> 39:21.920] point, that'd be many times in my career where I've been in that position where you sort of sit
[39:21.920 -> 39:29.200] and you think they didn't mean it. Did they mean it? Okay. And of course, by the time you've really thought it through, you're sort of like, you've
[39:29.200 -> 39:34.000] moved on and something else has happened. But we now think a lot here, and I'm sure all
[39:34.000 -> 39:39.120] organizations do about that, about tackling it in the moment. And basically saying, actually,
[39:39.120 -> 39:43.360] I don't know what you meant by that, but I actually felt quite offended by that. I don't
[39:43.360 -> 39:49.480] think that that was acceptable. And we've done quite a lot of work with our teams around that to make sure that we get
[39:49.480 -> 39:54.840] the right behaviour. We will not get it right. Definitely not 100% of the time, but I think
[39:54.840 -> 39:57.800] we're getting better at calling it out when you see it.
[39:57.800 -> 40:02.280] Paul Marber. And are you encouraged by the reaction of the younger generation? I mean,
[40:02.280 -> 40:03.560] I've got a very young daughter.
[40:03.560 -> 40:04.560] Lucy Marble. Florence.
[40:04.560 -> 40:07.520] Paul Marber. Little Florence. She's only nine years old. I know you've got an older daughter.
[40:07.520 -> 40:10.720] I know that you've spoken about your daughter's reaction.
[40:10.720 -> 40:15.040] Are you encouraged by the reaction of the younger generation where,
[40:15.040 -> 40:20.480] you know, maybe you had in some ways become almost immune to some of the sexism because it had been
[40:20.480 -> 40:25.200] commonplace, whereas it just simply will not be accepted by the next generation.
[40:25.200 -> 40:28.400] It's kind of our role, I guess, to ensure that is the case.
[40:28.400 -> 40:30.080] Jemma Atkinson Well, 100%, Jake. I mean,
[40:30.080 -> 40:34.880] for the likes of Florence and for my daughters, Rhiannon and Caitlin, you know, this has to be
[40:34.880 -> 40:40.960] fixed because it's been going on for too long and it's been just seen as being acceptable for too
[40:40.960 -> 40:45.680] long. I went home that evening and we sort of, you know, we, we, we talked about
[40:45.680 -> 40:50.160] what I'd done that day and they were just like, what? And their reaction was, well, what did you
[40:50.160 -> 40:54.480] do? Did you take, did you kick them out? That was their reaction.
[40:54.480 -> 40:56.480] That's the Ronda, that's the Ronda genetics.
[40:56.480 -> 41:00.720] I mean, that's the Ronda for you. Yeah. That's like, we'll go, we'll get them. But you know,
[41:00.720 -> 41:05.640] it was just like, that's, that's really, you know, they couldn't believe it because
[41:05.640 -> 41:07.600] they just will not accept that.
[41:07.600 -> 41:10.440] And thank goodness they will not accept that.
[41:10.440 -> 41:14.260] But I would say it's universal, whether it's male or female, you know, the response to
[41:14.260 -> 41:19.320] it has been, you know, completely that it's unacceptable from other chairs in the FTSE
[41:19.320 -> 41:25.680] 100 to CEOs from Australia and America that have all sort of reached out to say, you know,
[41:25.680 -> 41:30.640] maybe this is a bit of a turning point, that this is just simply not acceptable anymore.
[41:30.640 -> 41:32.560] Toby Brady But there are still only nine
[41:32.560 -> 41:38.000] female chief execs in the UK's top 100 companies. There are no women of colour at all.
[41:39.200 -> 41:44.880] So this still is very much a work in progress. What would you say to those, I suppose the first
[41:44.880 -> 41:45.040] thing, I was going to say, what would you say to, to those, I suppose the first thing,
[41:45.040 -> 41:48.080] I was going to say, what would you say to young female business leaders, but what would you say to
[41:48.640 -> 41:52.480] male business leaders about how they and we can also help fix this problem?
[41:52.480 -> 41:53.600] Emma Waller-Kruger Yeah. I mean, so I think,
[41:53.600 -> 41:58.160] actually, I think the number might be eight, Jake. It's just totally unacceptable, isn't it?
[41:58.160 -> 42:06.160] That we sort of sit here today and I like to turn it on its head. So if there were 92 women and eight men, what would the conversation be?
[42:06.720 -> 42:11.920] It would be more action oriented. And I think the problem is there's a lot of talking about it.
[42:12.560 -> 42:19.600] Everybody recognizes that something needs to be done. Everybody does the easy things. You do
[42:20.320 -> 42:28.560] the unconscious bias training. You have sponsorship programs, mentoring programs,
[42:28.560 -> 42:34.240] female leadership programs, all of that, but the numbers do not change.
[42:34.240 -> 42:40.320] And in fact, this year in women in financial services firms, the percentage of senior women
[42:40.320 -> 42:41.960] has not moved at all.
[42:41.960 -> 42:44.420] It was moving at 1% a year.
[42:44.420 -> 42:45.920] This year it hasn't moved at all. It was moving at one percent a year. This year it hasn't moved at all.
[42:46.560 -> 42:52.240] So, you know, the conversation has to be whether you're a male leader, a female leader, whether
[42:52.240 -> 42:58.400] you're in, what are we going to do to fix what the core issues are? And the core issues are within
[42:58.400 -> 43:08.240] the pipeline, within the organization. The fact is that too many women leave the organization, that's critical caring points,
[43:08.240 -> 43:10.840] whether it's caring for parents or caring for children.
[43:10.840 -> 43:16.960] And when they come back, they don't come back at the same level, or they don't come back
[43:16.960 -> 43:19.880] in a job share that they can keep, you know, that same level.
[43:19.880 -> 43:26.560] They come back for more junior roles, and they then do not progress from there. So making sure that you look
[43:26.560 -> 43:31.680] at your talent much earlier on, and you identify who the talented people are, and that you've
[43:31.680 -> 43:36.400] earmarked them from a very early stage, and making sure you manage that through is absolutely
[43:36.400 -> 43:40.720] critical. I've done some work with Bain on this. We've written a Women in Finance blueprint,
[43:40.720 -> 43:45.380] which basically goes through retention, recruitment, you know, culture,
[43:45.380 -> 43:48.220] all the things that brilliant organizations do
[43:48.220 -> 43:50.760] to make sure that things improve.
[43:50.760 -> 43:53.420] But genuinely, if at the rate that we're improving now,
[43:53.420 -> 43:54.700] we'll never get there for Florence.
[43:54.700 -> 43:57.100] We won't get there for Florence at this point.
[43:57.100 -> 43:58.340] It will still be the same.
[43:58.340 -> 44:00.940] So let me flip the question then and ask you to answer it
[44:00.940 -> 44:02.920] from a different perspective, Amanda.
[44:02.920 -> 44:06.820] What advice would you give to a nine-year-old Amanda
[44:06.820 -> 44:09.900] in the Rhondda Valley that would make her believe
[44:09.900 -> 44:13.520] that she could reach the status that you have?
[44:13.520 -> 44:15.460] I do the Speakers for Schools,
[44:15.460 -> 44:18.780] and I go back to schools in places like the Rhondda
[44:18.780 -> 44:22.400] and in Newport and Bridgend to speak to the kids
[44:22.400 -> 44:26.080] because I think, honestly, they need to see more role models.
[44:26.080 -> 44:29.680] I don't think it would matter what I would say to a nine-year-old, because a nine-year-old
[44:29.680 -> 44:34.040] is, you know, hopefully a happy go-lucky, not thinking about anything.
[44:34.040 -> 44:39.640] But once you get to the comprehensive school, your secondary school level, there are no
[44:39.640 -> 44:41.800] role models.
[44:41.800 -> 44:46.480] There are no people that they can look at and say, Oh, that person's like me.
[44:46.480 -> 44:51.440] So when I go in and I say, I went to a school like this, and I show a picture of
[44:51.440 -> 44:56.080] Cherokee comprehensive school, and I have these results, which actually weren't that good.
[44:56.640 -> 45:01.600] And I've worked my way through my career. My grandparents were miners. They've all got their
[45:01.600 -> 45:06.720] mouths open. And then I, oh, right. Because business is also
[45:06.720 -> 45:12.160] seen as being like a negative thing. So, you can be a doctor or you can be a lawyer or you can be
[45:12.160 -> 45:19.600] an accountant, but who celebrates being a CEO or being a successful entrepreneur? I think there
[45:19.600 -> 45:30.560] are just too few role models. And I think that's what schools need. They need to see people like that. And, you know, we are in Norwich, we're about to do some work with local businesses and, you know,
[45:30.560 -> 45:37.040] looking at how can we put our own people and local doing T levels together to just get a sense of
[45:37.040 -> 45:41.440] what it's like to work for an insurance company that it's not boring. It's actually bloody
[45:41.440 -> 45:48.080] exciting. And there's lots of really good things that happen, but people don't look at an insurance company, they think of just meerkats on television.
[45:48.080 -> 45:52.240] You know, they don't think of all the brilliant things that we do. And, you know, we've got
[45:52.240 -> 45:53.440] to get better at that.
[45:53.440 -> 45:56.840] Paul Marks Brilliant. I love the passion. And you sit
[45:56.840 -> 46:02.080] and talk to us, Amanda, and you seem so confident and you seem so centred. And I'm sure that
[46:02.080 -> 46:07.080] in the role you're in, it's not always the case. Can we talk briefly about imposter syndrome?
[46:07.280 -> 46:10.320] Because I think there may well be some young ladies listening to this going,
[46:10.320 -> 46:14.120] well, I wish I didn't have my imposter syndrome or I wish I had Amanda's confidence.
[46:14.320 -> 46:16.680] What's your relationship like with imposter syndrome?
[46:16.880 -> 46:19.400] Look, I mean, hundreds of times I sit here
[46:19.600 -> 46:23.880] and I was in Wales at the weekend with my mum and dad, you know, and we were sort of
[46:23.880 -> 46:28.000] driving through the valley and I dropped my kids off there for a couple of days. And then you come
[46:28.000 -> 46:33.200] back here and I'm doing this podcast with you. And I want to see my first question was when,
[46:33.200 -> 46:37.200] when they asked me to do this, why are they asking me to do this? Well, why do you want to hear from
[46:37.200 -> 46:42.800] me? And I, I feel like all the time, you know, I'll go and we I'm on the prime minister's business
[46:42.800 -> 46:46.640] council and you go to that and you're thinking, what am I doing here?
[46:47.200 -> 46:48.560] Why am I here?
[46:48.560 -> 46:50.800] That's only sort of like 10 seconds.
[46:50.800 -> 46:53.600] And then you snap into it and you think, I'm here for a reason
[46:53.600 -> 46:57.640] because I've got something to add, because I am from a different background,
[46:57.840 -> 47:01.560] because I have been successful, because I, I know what, you know,
[47:01.560 -> 47:05.820] I know what good looks like and I know I can help and I'm prepared to speak up.
[47:05.820 -> 47:07.620] But look, I think everybody has that.
[47:07.620 -> 47:10.320] I think men and women, it's not just something
[47:10.320 -> 47:15.320] that women suffer with, but girls and women particularly,
[47:15.420 -> 47:18.060] you know, the number of young, talented women
[47:18.060 -> 47:21.160] that I speak to at Aviva and they are just,
[47:21.160 -> 47:24.540] all they need is to be told that they're good enough
[47:24.540 -> 47:25.520] to do the next thing.
[47:26.240 -> 47:30.880] All that's all it takes is somebody to say, why don't you apply for that job?
[47:31.760 -> 47:35.520] You've got all the right skills to be able to do all the capabilities to be able to do it.
[47:35.520 -> 47:41.040] Why wouldn't you put yourself forward and then a little push and that, and then you get people
[47:41.040 -> 47:46.360] going. That's all it takes. Which in part answers my question then, Amanda,
[47:46.360 -> 47:48.680] I'm interested in how your parents have responded
[47:48.680 -> 47:53.000] to your success and that community that you came from.
[47:53.000 -> 47:54.880] So how do they react now when they see you
[47:54.880 -> 47:57.320] sort of strolling up to 10 Downing Street
[47:57.320 -> 48:00.920] to meet the prime minister or coming on podcasts like this?
[48:00.920 -> 48:06.160] And equally, what did they say that you felt was important to put you
[48:06.160 -> 48:07.160] in that position?
[48:07.160 -> 48:12.480] I can't possibly repeat what my father would say about going to number 10. Not only here
[48:12.480 -> 48:18.960] anyway, but I think my mum and dad, you know, we don't talk about it, honestly. They'll
[48:18.960 -> 48:25.240] say you work too hard. But, but they've always been, it's about the person that you are being there for your family, being there for the, you know, the people that you work with. We Ond maen nhw bob amser wedi bod, mae'n ymwneud â'r person rydych chi.
[48:25.240 -> 48:29.440] Mae'n ymwneud â'ch teulu, mae'n ymwneud â'r bobl rydych chi'n gweithio gyda.
[48:29.440 -> 48:31.960] Dydyn ni ddim yn siarad amdano fel hynny.
[48:31.960 -> 48:36.800] Dw i'n gwybod eu bod nhw'n fawr i mi oherwydd, os gwnaf radio o gyfarfod o fath neu rydw i ar TV,
[48:36.800 -> 48:40.800] byddwn i bob amser yn cael text dda o fy mab yn dweud, oh, roedd hynny'n dda iawn.
[48:40.800 -> 48:43.800] Ac mae'n dda iawn. Ac, yn ddiweddar, dyna'r un rydych chi'n edrych arno.
[48:43.800 -> 48:46.120] Mae'r un rydych chi'n edrych arno, sy'n dweud, oh, roedd gennych chi' look out for. It is the one you look out for, which is just, you know,
[48:46.120 -> 48:47.080] oh, you were really, you know,
[48:47.080 -> 48:48.980] I thought you spoke really well there.
[48:49.920 -> 48:53.320] But we try to, it's more centered than that.
[48:53.320 -> 48:55.120] You know, I mean, my sister's really successful.
[48:55.120 -> 48:58.920] She's a head teacher in Leicester, in an inner city school.
[48:58.920 -> 49:00.280] I think they've just done a brilliant job
[49:00.280 -> 49:03.080] of bringing us up without any of the nonsense, really.
[49:03.080 -> 49:05.160] They just, we just know what's right and what's wrong.
[49:05.520 -> 49:09.080] And when you are as successful as you have been and you, and you've
[49:09.080 -> 49:12.040] achieved the things that you have, I think sometimes people think that
[49:12.080 -> 49:13.960] all of the thrill comes from business.
[49:14.600 -> 49:18.360] But actually maybe seeing your children grow up, holding your daughter's
[49:18.360 -> 49:20.680] hand when they're young or spending time with your family.
[49:20.680 -> 49:23.520] I think it's important to remind people that that is the, that's the
[49:23.520 -> 49:27.840] true joy, I think, in life, isn't it? Well, that's what you do it for. Do you live to work or work to live?
[49:28.480 -> 49:34.400] I love being with my family. I love, also love my Peloton bike. You know, my, the deepest joy for
[49:34.400 -> 49:39.600] me, honestly, is that at five o'clock this morning, I was on that bike doing 45 minutes of that,
[49:39.600 -> 49:44.640] which I just love so much. And it just gives me that energy, which is outside of work. I can't
[49:44.640 -> 50:06.320] think about anything else when I'm on there. It's like, you've just got to beat your, your, you know, Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny, mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor, mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor, mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor, mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor, mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor, mae'n rhaid i mewn to my husband and I went. in London last night, it felt like skiving off on a school night. It was something that had been sort of hangover from COVID,
[50:06.320 -> 50:07.720] which my husband and I went.
[50:07.720 -> 50:09.760] But these are things that I just love doing.
[50:09.760 -> 50:12.760] And you've got to enjoy your life because, you know,
[50:12.760 -> 50:15.500] as my old boss once said to me, you know, nobody, you know,
[50:15.500 -> 50:16.980] when they're lying in their coffin says,
[50:16.980 -> 50:18.440] I should have worked harder.
[50:18.440 -> 50:20.160] And so you're out of bed at five every day.
[50:20.160 -> 50:21.840] Yeah, most days, not the weekend.
[50:21.840 -> 50:24.440] So when did you decide to adopt the early start?
[50:24.440 -> 50:25.520] Has that been a lifelong thing? Always. Yeah. I mean, my mom gets up like four o', not the weekend. So when did you decide to adopt the early start? Has that been a lifelong thing?
[50:25.520 -> 50:29.040] Always. Yeah. I mean, my mum gets up like four o'clock in the morning.
[50:29.760 -> 50:33.760] She literally, she cleans the house before everybody else is up.
[50:33.760 -> 50:35.680] I mean, she's just unbelievable.
[50:35.680 -> 50:39.040] And even today, at sort of nearly 80 years of age, that's what she does.
[50:39.600 -> 50:43.840] So interesting. We've reached the point, Amanda, where we've run through some quickfire questions.
[50:43.840 -> 50:45.240] The first one is,
[50:45.240 -> 50:48.600] what are the three non-negotiable behaviours
[50:48.600 -> 50:51.280] that you and the people around you must buy into?
[50:51.280 -> 50:52.600] First of all, about behaviour,
[50:52.600 -> 50:56.760] and I will not tolerate bullying or bad behaviour.
[50:56.760 -> 50:59.640] The second is bad news needs to be delivered early.
[50:59.640 -> 51:02.980] Do not like surprises on bad news.
[51:02.980 -> 51:04.960] And the third is operating in a silo.
[51:04.960 -> 51:08.080] I really will not tolerate the team operating in a silo.
[51:08.080 -> 51:10.080] Those are my sort of non-negotiables.
[51:10.080 -> 51:11.440] Just pick up on a couple of those.
[51:11.440 -> 51:13.840] How do you stop teams working in a silo?
[51:13.840 -> 51:15.800] It's about the group scorecard, it's about objectives.
[51:15.800 -> 51:18.800] So having group objectives and calling out
[51:18.800 -> 51:20.640] if you can see that one team is doing something
[51:20.640 -> 51:23.200] which is clearly to the detriment of another team
[51:23.200 -> 51:25.520] or not for the greater good of the group.
[51:25.520 -> 51:29.560] And I've always been very focused on that.
[51:29.560 -> 51:31.760] And delivering bad news early, why does that matter?
[51:31.760 -> 51:34.440] Oh my gosh, because then you've got more brains
[51:34.440 -> 51:36.560] that can help to fix the problem.
[51:36.560 -> 51:39.520] I mean, you do not wanna have a late,
[51:39.520 -> 51:41.000] let me tell you, in financial services,
[51:41.000 -> 51:42.880] you definitely do not want late bad news.
[51:42.880 -> 51:44.760] You wanna know if there's a start of a problem
[51:44.760 -> 51:47.680] because often there's lots of things you can do to fix it. And I always think that,
[51:47.680 -> 51:51.760] you know, two brains are better than one. And if the more, the more brains that are working on
[51:51.760 -> 51:56.080] something, there's a chance to actually get a better outcome. What's been the biggest sacrifice
[51:56.080 -> 52:01.040] you've made for high performance and would you make it again? I think there's constant sacrifices,
[52:01.040 -> 52:06.080] but you know, that you have to make the sacrifice around family and home to some
[52:06.080 -> 52:09.560] extent in that my husband gave up his job.
[52:09.560 -> 52:13.920] I would say he's actually made the biggest sacrifice, not me, because he gave up his
[52:13.920 -> 52:18.320] job when my second daughter was born to look after the family because we recognized that
[52:18.320 -> 52:19.320] we couldn't both do it.
[52:19.320 -> 52:28.960] We didn't want to both do it, and it was important that somebody was there for the girls. And so I think that you then have to accept the sacrifices that you're
[52:28.960 -> 52:34.720] not going to be home for every play. You're not going to be there for every parents evening.
[52:34.720 -> 52:39.120] You're there for the important ones and you sort of have to compromise a bit on that,
[52:39.120 -> 52:44.160] but that, that, that's definitely a sacrifice. You know, you don't see everything, um, that
[52:44.160 -> 52:45.600] if you're a control freak
[52:45.600 -> 52:47.000] like me, that you want to.
[52:47.000 -> 52:49.400] And would you do it again?
[52:49.400 -> 52:50.400] Yes.
[52:50.400 -> 52:53.400] What is your biggest strength and what is your greatest weakness?
[52:53.400 -> 53:00.160] I think my biggest strength is basically just being able to push through things and relentlessness,
[53:00.160 -> 53:07.200] you know, keeping going and making sure that I'm sort of, you know, driving the best out of people
[53:07.200 -> 53:12.000] and out of the organisation. Oh, you'd have to ask other people about my biggest weakness. I think
[53:12.000 -> 53:18.000] sometimes, I know taking feedback is quite hard. Taking feedback is hard, even though you like to
[53:18.000 -> 53:25.600] listen. Taking personal feedback can be difficult. Where were you? Where are you? And where are you going?
[53:31.040 -> 53:31.920] Where I was, I think was, um, very happy with what I'd accomplished until I came here.
[53:37.600 -> 53:42.800] And now I absolutely want more. I want more. I want Aviva to be more successful than it is today. So where I am today is we've reached the end of phase one. I, and I feel on my particular journey
[53:42.800 -> 53:49.240] here that I've reached the end of phase one in terms of where I'm going is making sure that we are absolutely at our absolute
[53:49.240 -> 53:55.120] best. And I don't think much further beyond than that. Because I think if you can, you
[53:55.120 -> 53:59.460] know, people say they have 15 year career plans and all that. I don't believe that.
[53:59.460 -> 54:03.640] I really don't. I think you've got to see what the opportunities are and sort of unroll
[54:03.640 -> 54:04.640] with them.
[54:04.640 -> 54:07.440] So how far ahead do you plan in your career?
[54:08.080 -> 54:09.840] Not really at all, honestly.
[54:09.840 -> 54:12.640] I mean, you know, I think you have to be good at what you do.
[54:12.640 -> 54:15.320] I think too often, you know, when you speak to really ambitious people,
[54:15.680 -> 54:18.080] then they're more concerned about what they're going to do next
[54:18.080 -> 54:20.440] and doing a good job of what they're doing now.
[54:20.440 -> 54:23.960] My fundamental belief is if you do a good job of what you're doing now,
[54:24.120 -> 54:25.880] the next thing will come.
[54:25.880 -> 54:27.180] It will come.
[54:27.180 -> 54:29.960] And it may come from lots of strange places,
[54:29.960 -> 54:31.320] but it will definitely come.
[54:31.320 -> 54:35.720] And the final question, what's your one golden rule
[54:35.720 -> 54:37.000] for living a high-performance life?
[54:37.000 -> 54:39.000] I suppose in many ways, your one final message
[54:39.000 -> 54:40.880] you'd like to leave our listeners with.
[54:40.880 -> 54:43.000] Always do what you say you're going to do.
[54:44.480 -> 54:49.640] So many times, people just, you know, they say you're going to do something and then
[54:49.640 -> 54:52.880] you can see them even before they've left your office, you know, they're going to do
[54:52.880 -> 54:56.680] something different, you know, you know, they're not going to, but I think if you do what you
[54:56.680 -> 55:02.420] say you're going to do for your customers, for your people, for your family, for yourself,
[55:02.420 -> 55:03.420] you can't go far wrong.
[55:03.420 -> 55:04.420] Fantastic.
[55:04.420 -> 55:08.400] I've really enjoyed that. You know, there's a, there's such a clarity to the way that
[55:08.400 -> 55:13.200] you talk and the way you think. And maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that you've got
[55:13.200 -> 55:16.880] more energy and more drive and more desire than ever, you know.
[55:16.880 -> 55:17.360] Oh, absolutely.
[55:17.360 -> 55:20.720] It feels like, because it feels like you're right at the start of the journey, doesn't it still?
[55:20.720 -> 55:23.600] It does. No, it really does. I mean, because I think you look at the journey in phases,
[55:23.600 -> 55:25.600] right? It's like we have an electric car and,
[55:25.600 -> 55:29.240] you know, basically you get to one charging point and then you start again, don't you?
[55:29.240 -> 55:32.400] It's like you've filled up and you're raring to go. And I think it's a bit like that.
[55:32.400 -> 55:34.440] Jason Vale Amanda, thank you so much for taking the
[55:34.440 -> 55:35.440] time.
[55:35.440 -> 55:36.440] Amanda May Thank you. It's been really lovely to talk
[55:36.440 -> 55:38.440] with you both. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
[55:38.440 -> 55:40.600] Jake Martin It's been a real privilege. Thank you. Thanks
[55:40.600 -> 55:45.200] for sharing so candidly.
[55:45.200 -> 55:50.680] Damian. Jake. Well I've really enjoyed that conversation because as much as you
[55:50.680 -> 55:54.760] know you speak to Amanda and she has real sort of conviction in the way she
[55:54.760 -> 55:59.640] speaks and real clarity and she seems so centred and grounded it all comes from
[55:59.640 -> 56:03.280] starting like everybody else in a really normal life with a really normal
[56:03.280 -> 56:06.280] upbringing you know she wasn't born into this world of business
[56:06.280 -> 56:08.320] or anything, she's had to find her way through.
[56:08.320 -> 56:10.120] And it's a brilliant, brilliant reminder
[56:10.120 -> 56:11.680] for anyone listening to that episode
[56:11.680 -> 56:14.400] that it's there for you if you want to go and find it.
[56:14.400 -> 56:15.240] Yeah, definitely.
[56:15.240 -> 56:19.100] I love the fact that you could draw a straight line
[56:19.100 -> 56:21.400] from that girl growing up in the Rhonda Valley
[56:21.400 -> 56:24.320] to the chief exec that we're speaking to today.
[56:24.320 -> 56:27.680] You know, it's a great line from, I think it was Ian Brown that said,
[56:27.680 -> 56:29.280] it's not where you're from, it's where you're at.
[56:29.800 -> 56:33.320] But I think the idea of being able to acknowledge where you are from and the
[56:33.320 -> 56:37.040] lessons that she learned in that community and from her, what sounds like
[56:37.040 -> 56:41.640] brilliant parents and grandparents is still rippling and playing an effect
[56:41.880 -> 56:45.760] today as she heads up 25,000 people organisation.
[56:45.760 -> 56:49.760] I mean, it's an incredibly important and prestigious job, but she's still,
[56:50.320 -> 56:55.760] sadly, in 2022 having to fight against, you know, sexism in the workplace. And I was thinking while
[56:55.760 -> 56:58.800] we were talking to her, you know, what can we do better? And I think the key really is,
[56:59.760 -> 57:04.240] is for men to make sure that we're real allies to women in the workplace and speak up for them,
[57:04.240 -> 57:06.000] stand up for them, be alongside them, call things out when, when we don't think things are right. yw i mewnwyr i sicrhau ein bod ni'n allwyr gwirioneddol i ddynion ym mhob le. Ac i siarad â nhw, i ddod o'r ôl iddyn nhw, i fod gyda nhw,
[57:06.000 -> 57:09.000] a chroeswch pethau pan ddim yn teimlo bod pethau'n iawn.
[57:09.000 -> 57:12.000] Ie, yw'r cwrt Martin Luther King,
[57:12.000 -> 57:15.000] yw'r ddiddordeb yma yw ddiddordeb ym mhob le.
[57:15.000 -> 57:18.000] Ac rwy'n credu, pan ddewiswn ni'r gwyrdd i'w gweld,
[57:18.000 -> 57:20.000] ac yw'n dweud, na fydd e ddim yn effeithio arnaf,
[57:20.000 -> 57:23.000] neu na ddim yn rhywbeth y mae'n fy mod i'n teimlo'n ffyrdd.
[57:23.000 -> 57:25.080] Mae'n gallu ei ddod o'r ffwrdd a'i hwylio. Ac rwy'n credu, fel y dweudwch,
[57:25.080 -> 57:28.320] dwi ddim yn hoffi'r syniad o'r hyn a dweudwyd Amanda am
[57:28.320 -> 57:31.280] gwneud ymddygiad ynghylch y pwynt a'r pwynt a oedd ei angen.
[57:31.280 -> 57:32.480] Felly gallwch ddweud wrth rhywun,
[57:32.480 -> 57:34.880] dyma allai ddim wedi bod yn yr hyn rydych chi'n ei angen i'w wneud,
[57:34.880 -> 57:37.160] ond dyma'r pwynt a oedd arnaf i.
[57:37.160 -> 57:38.880] Oherwydd nid yw'n gallu gwneud hynny
[57:38.880 -> 57:40.880] os teimlwyd y byddai'n ddifrifol
[57:40.880 -> 57:42.560] neu oedd wedi croesawu'r rhan.
[57:42.560 -> 57:44.240] Dyma ein hynny'n ymddygiad,
[57:44.240 -> 57:49.560] ac felly rydyn ni'n rhoi cyfle i bobl i ddewis y pwynt a'r pwynt. me, because nobody can deny that if we feel that it was out of order or it crossed the line. That's our judgment and therefore we give people the chance to
[57:49.560 -> 57:53.640] reflect and to climb down from it and maybe reconsider without feeling that
[57:53.640 -> 57:57.080] we're attacking the individual. Yeah and sadly it remains so prevalent. You know,
[57:57.080 -> 58:02.520] I remember on air standing up for one of our female pundits a couple of years
[58:02.520 -> 58:07.200] ago, a lady called Karen Carney. And I still get every week criticism
[58:07.200 -> 58:08.520] from people for doing that.
[58:08.520 -> 58:10.960] And it was like, well, she was, she was,
[58:10.960 -> 58:13.520] she criticised a football club,
[58:13.520 -> 58:15.360] but actually the criticism was nothing to do with football.
[58:15.360 -> 58:18.760] They just loads of misogynistic, sexist abuse came her way.
[58:18.760 -> 58:21.960] And I basically said on air, you know,
[58:21.960 -> 58:23.120] you can have an opinion,
[58:23.120 -> 58:25.520] but as soon as it crosses the line into sexism or into,
[58:25.520 -> 58:31.760] you know, specifically trying to offend or upset somebody, then it goes too far. And still people
[58:31.760 -> 58:36.560] fail to see that. So I think it's a reminder that this is, this is a work in progress, very much a
[58:36.560 -> 58:40.800] work in progress. And like Amanda said, I thought there was nine foot CEOs that are female, there's
[58:40.800 -> 58:48.000] only eight. I mean, it's like, that's, itwi'n hoffi'r cyfrifiad hwnnw,
[58:48.000 -> 58:50.000] y byddai Amanda Hughes wedi ei ddifrifio a dweud, os oedd yn y
[58:50.000 -> 58:53.000] gwirionedd, a oedd 92 o dynion yn gynnal
[58:53.000 -> 58:56.000] cymdeithasau futsy ac dim ond oedd dynion, byddai pobl yn
[58:56.000 -> 58:59.000] gweld ato ac yna dweud, a'u gofyn, a'u
[58:59.000 -> 59:02.000] dymuno o rhai ffyrdd o weithgaredd o'i gilydd. Felly, os ydyn ni'n mynd i
[59:02.000 -> 59:06.000] creu byd lle mae pobl yn teimlo bod ddifrifoedd yn
[59:06.000 -> 59:12.720] sgwrs, lle mae cyfathrebu'n ei weld fel rhywbeth sy'n gallu gweithredu cyfathrebu, rwy'n credu
[59:12.720 -> 59:18.480] y byddwn i gyd yn cael rhan i chwarae, yn herio, yn dweud ymlaen a'n gwneud yr hyn sy'n gallu i'w gynhyrchu.
[59:18.480 -> 59:30.800] Ac i gyd, yw'n gwybod, er mwyn y math o broblemau fel y problem sexism y that she had, you know, when it was her first ever AGM for Aviva, which is a shocking story, she remains someone who is
[59:30.800 -> 59:34.220] using all of her years of experience to drive that business forward. I know that
[59:34.220 -> 59:37.680] she really wants to be judged, like anyone else in business, on making
[59:37.680 -> 59:42.680] business a success, but still doing it with a heart and with some feeling.
[59:42.680 -> 59:46.600] Yeah, and I think it comes down to that idea that she's playing to win.
[59:46.600 -> 59:49.080] She's not playing not to lose.
[59:49.080 -> 59:52.000] And I think that comment that she made around
[59:52.000 -> 59:54.060] she's had 30 years of success in business,
[59:54.060 -> 59:56.920] but she's taking on challenges, she's stretching herself
[59:56.920 -> 01:00:00.140] because she backs herself to be able to do it better
[01:00:00.140 -> 01:00:03.840] than previous incumbents, to be able to leave a legacy
[01:00:03.840 -> 01:00:05.520] is to me a really powerful message for anyone listening to this. ymlaen, ymhellach na'r cynnigion cynnigol, i gael ymlaen at ddod o'r lle. Mae'n gwybod i mi,
[01:00:05.520 -> 01:00:08.400] a gweithgaredd gwych i unrhyw un sy'n mynd i'r wyneb hwn,
[01:00:08.400 -> 01:00:09.840] yw, wyt ti'n gwybod, edrychwch ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud
[01:00:09.840 -> 01:00:10.800] a'r hyn y gallwn ei ddod o'r hyn,
[01:00:10.800 -> 01:00:14.160] yn hytrach na'n ymdrechu am y cyfnodau o ddim yn ei ddarparu.
[01:00:14.160 -> 01:00:14.880] Ie,
[01:00:14.880 -> 01:00:27.400] ymgysylltu. A ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddewis ddew it was a real privilege to speak to her. Well, thank you so much to Amanda for being so open,
[01:00:27.400 -> 01:00:29.780] honest and vulnerable in this conversation.
[01:00:29.780 -> 01:00:32.760] Thanks to PWC for wanting to bring these conversations
[01:00:32.760 -> 01:00:33.600] to you.
[01:00:33.600 -> 01:00:36.080] And as always, the biggest thanks of all goes to you
[01:00:36.080 -> 01:00:39.340] at home for sharing this podcast among your community.
[01:00:39.340 -> 01:00:42.080] Please continue to spread the learnings you're taking
[01:00:42.080 -> 01:00:43.600] from this series.
[01:00:43.600 -> 01:00:47.800] I would love you to either put this on your whatsapp or mention it to somebody at work
[01:00:47.800 -> 01:00:53.060] I would also love it. If you can rate and review this podcast, it's really the best way that you can support us
[01:00:53.540 -> 01:00:59.900] Thanks to the whole team Finn Hannah will even Gemma and remember there is no secret guys. It's all there for you
[01:00:59.900 -> 01:01:09.040] It's a chase world-class basics. Don't get high on your own supply, remain humble, curious and empathetic, and we'll see you very soon.
[01:01:24.900 -> 01:01:28.540] Bye!