E140 - Sunil Patel: The true cost of building a business worth millions.

This week on The High Performance Podcast, we speak to Sunil Patel, the Co-founder and CEO of Whisper, an award winning production company to Sunil created with High Performance host Jake Humphrey. 

In this episode Sunil openly shares with us the highs and lows of being obsessed with your work and how this can impact your private life. He also goes into depth on how teamwork is at the heart of every decision he makes, and the importance of treating people with respect no matter what level you are operating at.

With almost 300 staff, Whisper has grown organically to a turnover of tens of millions having produced Formula One, International Cricket, The Paralympics and Women’s Euros 2022. 

They have been named as one of the fastest growing production companies in Europe and Sunil has been named as a top 20 Indie Influencer 2019 by Broadcast Magazine and is a BAFTA-winning producer.

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# **Navigating the Highs and Lows of Entrepreneurial Success: A Candid Conversation with Sunil Patel**

### **Episode Overview**

This episode of The High Performance Podcast features Sunil Patel, the Co-founder and CEO of Whisper, an award-winning production company he created with the podcast's host, Jake Humphrey. In this open and honest conversation, Sunil shares valuable insights into the challenges and rewards of being an entrepreneur, emphasizing the importance of teamwork, resilience, and maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

### **Key Insights and Discussion Points**

* **The Genesis of Whisper:** Sunil traces the origins of Whisper to his personal experiences of rejection and frustration in previous workplaces. He felt a strong desire for ownership and control over his destiny, leading him to pursue entrepreneurship.

* **Overcoming Outsider Status:** Sunil reflects on his experiences as an outsider from a young age, facing challenges due to his family's immigrant status and his struggles to fit in at school. These experiences instilled in him a strong work ethic and a determination to prove himself.

* **The Importance of Teamwork:** Sunil emphasizes the significance of teamwork in the success of Whisper. He highlights the need for a strong and supportive team, where individuals are empowered and encouraged to reach their full potential.

* **Balancing Personal and Professional Life:** Sunil candidly discusses the challenges of maintaining a healthy work-life balance as an entrepreneur. He acknowledges the sacrifices he had to make in the early stages of building Whisper, including missing personal milestones and family events.

* **The Rewards of Entrepreneurship:** Despite the challenges, Sunil expresses his immense satisfaction and fulfillment in creating Whisper. He believes that entrepreneurship has allowed him to make a positive impact on the world and create opportunities for others.

* **The Whisper Ethos:** Sunil highlights the unique culture and ethos of Whisper, emphasizing the company's focus on diversity, inclusion, and promoting young talent. He explains how these values have contributed to the company's success.

* **The Power of Resilience:** Sunil stresses the importance of resilience in the face of setbacks and challenges. He shares his experiences of overcoming obstacles and adapting to changing circumstances, demonstrating the tenacity required for entrepreneurial success.

* **Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs:** Sunil offers valuable advice to aspiring entrepreneurs, encouraging them to embrace calculated risks, surround themselves with a supportive team, and maintain a strong work ethic. He emphasizes the importance of perseverance and the ability to learn from mistakes.

### **Conclusion**

This episode of The High Performance Podcast provides a refreshing and honest perspective on the entrepreneurial journey. Sunil Patel's insights into the highs and lows of building a successful business offer valuable lessons for anyone considering or pursuing an entrepreneurial path. The conversation underscores the significance of teamwork, resilience, and a balanced approach to personal and professional life in achieving entrepreneurial success.

# High Performance Podcast: Sunil Patel, Co-Founder and CEO of Whisper

In this episode of The High Performance Podcast, Jake Humphrey speaks with Sunil Patel, Co-Founder and CEO of Whisper, an award-winning production company. Patel shares his insights on the importance of teamwork, treating people with respect, and maintaining a positive and inclusive company culture.

## Key Takeaways:

* **Embrace Obsession:** Patel acknowledges that his obsessive nature has been both a strength and a weakness in his career. While it has driven his success, it has also taken a toll on his personal life and relationships. He emphasizes the importance of finding a balance and developing inner peace to mitigate the negative effects of obsession.

* **Prioritize Teamwork and Respect:** Patel believes that teamwork is at the heart of every decision he makes. He strives to create an environment where everyone feels valued and respected, regardless of their position or experience. He emphasizes the importance of treating people with kindness and understanding, even in challenging situations.

* **Cultivate a Positive Company Culture:** Patel is passionate about creating a positive and inclusive company culture at Whisper. He believes that employees should feel like they belong and are empowered to make a difference. He encourages open communication, transparency, and a sense of community among team members.

* **Take Calculated Risks:** Patel highlights the importance of taking calculated risks in business. He shares how Whisper strategically hired top talent and pursued ambitious projects, even when it meant facing skepticism and resistance from the industry. He emphasizes the need to have a clear vision and the courage to pursue it, even in the face of uncertainty.

* **Adapt and Pivot During Challenges:** Patel discusses how Whisper faced a significant challenge during the COVID-19 pandemic when live sports production, their primary source of revenue, came to a halt. He describes how the company pivoted quickly, exploring new opportunities and supporting their employees during this difficult time. He emphasizes the importance of adaptability and resilience in overcoming business challenges.

* **Invest in Employee Well-being:** Patel believes that investing in employee well-being is crucial for a company's success. He shares how Whisper provides access to mental health programs, financial assistance, and a supportive work environment to ensure that employees feel valued and cared for. He emphasizes the positive impact this has on employee morale, productivity, and overall company performance.

## Conclusion:

Sunil Patel's journey with Whisper showcases the importance of teamwork, a positive company culture, and calculated risk-taking in achieving business success. His emphasis on treating people with respect, creating an inclusive environment, and investing in employee well-being highlights his commitment to building a sustainable and high-performing organization.

## Podcast Episode Summary: Sunil Patel, Co-founder and CEO of Whisper

**Guest:** Sunil Patel, Co-founder and CEO of Whisper, an award-winning production company.

**Key Points:**

* **High-Performance Culture:**
* Sunil emphasizes the importance of teamwork and treating people with respect at every level of the organization.
* Whisper has grown organically to a turnover of tens of millions, producing Formula One, International Cricket, The Paralympics, and Women's Euros 2022.
* The company has been recognized as one of the fastest-growing production companies in Europe, and Sunil has been named a top 20 Indie Influencer 2019 by Broadcast Magazine.
* **Decision-Making Process:**
* Whisper's decision-making process is transparent, with a clear understanding of the challenges, successes, and shared success among the team.
* Sunil values taking chances and trying new things, recognizing that mistakes are part of the learning process.
* The company's values—be ambitious, bold, creative, diverse, honest, and relentless—are explicitly stated and lived by the team.
* **Empathy and Love:**
* Sunil's personal journey through challenging times, including the COVID-19 pandemic and the deaths of George Floyd and Caroline Flack, has deepened his empathy and understanding of others.
* He emphasizes the importance of seeing life through other people's eyes and valuing things that were once overlooked.
* This shift in perspective has led to a more efficient and productive work environment, with a focus on positive change and impact.
* **Legacy and High Performance:**
* Sunil's legacy aspirations are centered around redefining the industry by promoting diversity, inclusivity, and creative roles filled by underrepresented groups.
* He sees his greatest strength and weakness as his relentless drive, acknowledging the challenges of being constantly driven.
* High performance, to Sunil, is characterized by strong motivation, ambition, and resilience, attributes that have contributed to Whisper's success.

**Overall Message:**

Sunil Patel's leadership journey at Whisper highlights the power of empathy, teamwork, and a relentless pursuit of excellence. His focus on creating a positive and inclusive workplace culture, combined with his commitment to making a positive impact, has been instrumental in the company's growth and success.

**The High Performance Podcast: Sunil Patel**

* Sunil Patel, Co-founder and CEO of Whisper, a production company, shares his insights on the connection between personal and professional success.

**Key Points:**

- **The Importance of Teamwork:**
- Patel emphasizes the significance of teamwork as the foundation of every decision he makes.
- He believes in treating people with respect, regardless of their position or level.

- **Balancing Personal and Professional Life:**
- Patel openly discusses the challenges of being obsessed with work and its impact on personal life.
- He stresses the importance of finding a balance between the two.

- **Leading by Example:**
- Patel highlights the impact of leaders who practice what they preach, inspiring those around them.
- He shares an anecdote about a leader who demonstrated this principle through personal sacrifice.

- **High Performance Listener Luke's Story:**
- Luke, a listener of the podcast, shares his experience of using high performance principles to navigate a difficult time.
- He recounts how the podcast helped him cope with his partner's medical emergency and subsequent recovery.

- **Applying High Performance Lessons:**
- Luke explains how he applied the lessons learned from the podcast to his workplace and personal life.
- He credits the podcast with helping him secure a new job and navigate challenges in his personal life.

- **High Performance as Insulation for Future Challenges:**
- Luke expresses his belief that high performance principles have prepared him for future challenges.
- He emphasizes the importance of embracing nerves and pressure as positive signs of engagement.

- **The Power of Sharing High Performance:**
- The hosts encourage listeners to share the podcast with others who might benefit from its teachings.
- They emphasize the significance of spreading the learnings and making the podcast accessible to those who need it.

- **The High Performance Team:**
- The hosts express gratitude to the team behind the podcast, including Finn, Hannah, Will, Eve, and Gemma.

- **Conclusion:**
- The hosts remind listeners that the principles of high performance are readily available and accessible.
- They encourage listeners to pursue world-class basics, remain humble, curious, and empathetic.

[00:00.000 -> 00:06.200] Hi there, I'm Jake Humphrey and you're listening to High Performance, our conversation for
[00:06.200 -> 00:12.840] you every single week. This is the podcast that reminds you that it's within your ambition,
[00:12.840 -> 00:17.360] your purpose, your story. It's all there. We just help you unlock it by turning the
[00:17.360 -> 00:22.520] lived experiences of the planet's highest performers into your life lessons. So right
[00:22.520 -> 00:25.000] now allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes
[00:25.000 -> 00:28.240] to speak to the greatest leaders, thinkers, sports stars,
[00:28.240 -> 00:30.000] and entrepreneurs on the planet,
[00:30.000 -> 00:31.120] so they can be your teacher.
[00:31.120 -> 00:32.680] And please remember this podcast
[00:32.680 -> 00:34.080] is not about high achievement.
[00:34.080 -> 00:35.800] It's not about high success.
[00:35.800 -> 00:38.760] It's about high happiness, high self-worth,
[00:38.760 -> 00:41.720] and taking you closer to a life of fulfillment,
[00:41.720 -> 00:44.360] empathy, and understanding.
[00:44.360 -> 00:47.840] And here's the thing, this is the most personal episode
[00:47.840 -> 00:50.800] of the High Performance Podcast that I've ever recorded.
[00:50.800 -> 00:53.900] Today, this awaits you.
[00:54.840 -> 00:56.480] It was just baked into me, that's kind of,
[00:56.480 -> 00:59.800] you had to graft and my graft came from seeing my dad,
[00:59.800 -> 01:02.600] my mum do it day in, day out.
[01:02.600 -> 01:07.160] I think a strength and a weakness of mine is I'm obsessive. I'm
[01:07.160 -> 01:12.680] relentlessly obsessive about everything and that has been very useful to get to this point
[01:12.680 -> 01:17.960] but it's also been very damaging to get to this point for me. I wake up, I think about
[01:17.960 -> 01:24.320] Westper and the last thought I have is about Westper and that happened for years and years
[01:24.320 -> 01:29.020] and years and it was just non-stop and that came with compromises in my personal life
[01:29.020 -> 01:31.580] I gave too much to the business
[01:32.380 -> 01:37.240] I'd miss out on key milestones not birthdays of my kids or my wife
[01:38.180 -> 01:42.220] But you'd miss bedtime. You'd miss the birthday party for a friend
[01:42.220 -> 01:45.280] You'd miss going on holiday with your mates or whatever it was.
[01:45.280 -> 01:47.200] And they were the compromises I made.
[01:47.200 -> 01:49.040] I made so many of those.
[01:49.040 -> 01:50.920] And I think when you're getting going
[01:50.920 -> 01:54.160] and you just got to be prepared to make those compromises
[01:54.160 -> 01:55.740] and be comfortable with that.
[01:55.740 -> 01:57.640] There's an expectation when you walk through the door
[01:57.640 -> 02:00.080] at Whisper, you should be able to do your job
[02:00.080 -> 02:01.580] and you should be exceptional.
[02:03.200 -> 02:06.600] So today I welcome to High Performance one of my greatest
[02:06.600 -> 02:10.400] friends and one of the most incredible colleagues I've ever
[02:10.400 -> 02:12.280] worked with, Sunil Patel.
[02:12.640 -> 02:14.760] This is a conversation about the truth,
[02:14.800 -> 02:16.960] the truth behind being a self-starter,
[02:17.280 -> 02:19.320] the truth behind being incredibly driven,
[02:19.600 -> 02:22.600] the truth behind feeling the pressure of having to make sure
[02:22.600 -> 02:30.020] you pay the wages of hundreds of people during a pandemic. The truth behind being an entrepreneur. So this is
[02:30.020 -> 02:34.580] a conversation with Sunil Patel and Sunil and I set up a production company
[02:34.580 -> 02:38.980] called Whisper Films a decade ago. Since then it has grown in a way that you
[02:38.980 -> 02:43.380] can't believe. We feel incredibly lucky to have so many amazing staff work for
[02:43.380 -> 02:45.040] us to be producing such incredible
[02:45.040 -> 02:50.480] content. But I think in this modern world where being an entrepreneur or being self-employed
[02:50.480 -> 02:55.760] or running a business is promoted as sexy and cool and giving you autonomy, and it's
[02:55.760 -> 03:01.200] all over podcasts and it's all over Instagram and it's all about making it seem easy. I
[03:01.200 -> 03:04.600] think it's really important that we talk about the truth today. We talk about the fact that
[03:04.600 -> 03:08.560] it does cause collateral damage and that it isn't an easy route and that it
[03:08.560 -> 03:14.840] comes with absolutely no guarantees. However, at the same time, the rewards and the satisfaction
[03:14.840 -> 03:20.160] is huge. It is incredible. It's the most rewarding thing I've ever done, setting up Whisper.
[03:20.160 -> 03:24.120] And I really want you to recognize our path, to recognize my path and Sunil's path, and
[03:24.120 -> 03:26.720] to realize that what we have, you could have.
[03:26.720 -> 03:28.600] The way that we've done it, you can do it.
[03:28.600 -> 03:31.080] The things we've achieved, you can achieve.
[03:31.080 -> 03:33.440] There's nothing unique or special about us.
[03:33.440 -> 03:36.120] Sunil is the son of a news agent.
[03:36.120 -> 03:38.320] His dad ran a shop in Twickenham.
[03:38.320 -> 03:40.040] He went to the local state school.
[03:40.040 -> 03:42.760] He went to university and grafted.
[03:42.760 -> 03:44.640] I was born in a small village in Norfolk.
[03:44.640 -> 03:46.560] My dad was a charity worker, my mom was a teacher.
[03:46.560 -> 03:47.600] We had no money.
[03:47.600 -> 03:49.560] I knew nobody in the television industry.
[03:49.560 -> 03:51.720] I failed my exams and ended up working
[03:51.720 -> 03:54.280] in TV doing work experience.
[03:54.280 -> 03:56.600] And from that, of all the things we've achieved,
[03:56.600 -> 03:59.240] Whisper Group is the thing that we are most proud of
[03:59.240 -> 04:01.120] because we are changing the world for the better.
[04:01.120 -> 04:03.000] And I know that just sounds like a cliche.
[04:03.000 -> 04:04.040] It sounds like words.
[04:04.040 -> 04:05.960] It sounds like a bloody advert for the business,
[04:05.960 -> 04:07.240] but it isn't.
[04:07.240 -> 04:08.360] Because I guarantee you've seen
[04:08.360 -> 04:09.580] some of the content we produce,
[04:09.580 -> 04:12.040] whether it's our coverage of UEFA football competitions,
[04:12.040 -> 04:13.760] whether it's our Formula One coverage,
[04:13.760 -> 04:15.320] whether it's the Paralympics
[04:15.320 -> 04:17.000] that we produced for Channel 4.
[04:17.000 -> 04:19.740] We brought you the lionesses for the BBC this summer.
[04:19.740 -> 04:21.880] We've just produced an amazing documentary
[04:21.880 -> 04:24.860] of Ben Stokes for Amazon Prime.
[04:24.860 -> 04:29.240] But it's not about what we do, it's the way we do it in front of our most importantly behind the camera.
[04:29.240 -> 04:30.680] We have a really bold business.
[04:31.040 -> 04:32.640] We are 50% female.
[04:33.000 -> 04:35.160] We represent the underrepresented.
[04:35.200 -> 04:36.840] We have a really young workforce.
[04:36.840 -> 04:38.560] We're incredibly inclusive.
[04:38.760 -> 04:40.680] We support people who are not supported.
[04:40.680 -> 04:43.160] We recognize people who are not generally recognized.
[04:43.160 -> 04:47.600] We have schemes with various universities to try and promote the best young talent and give people from
[04:47.600 -> 04:53.180] all backgrounds an opportunity to thrive in the broadcast industry. Because I think that
[04:53.180 -> 04:58.100] if you're going to do it, you have a responsibility to do it right. And I believe that's what
[04:58.100 -> 05:03.060] we've done with the Whisper Group. So you're about to hear the story of how Sunil and I,
[05:03.060 -> 05:06.000] along with the help of so many amazing people, created
[05:06.000 -> 05:12.820] Whisper. This is the unfiltered truth about setting up your own business and striving
[05:12.820 -> 05:14.400] for excellence. Enjoy.
[05:14.400 -> 05:20.680] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you
[05:20.680 -> 05:25.680] can live a better life. And that's why when I found Mint Mobile I had to share.
[05:25.680 -> 05:30.360] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their
[05:30.360 -> 05:33.760] phone plans online and passes those savings to you.
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[05:37.960 -> 05:50.160] that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan. That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month.
[05:50.160 -> 05:53.920] And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service
[05:53.920 -> 05:57.840] in comparison to providers that we've worked with before is incredible.
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[06:25.120 -> 06:30.640] limited time deal and get premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month. To get
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[06:35.380 -> 07:04.520] a month go to mintmobile.com.hpp. That's mintmobile.com.hpp. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at Well Sunil, welcome to High Performance. This is a slightly surreal situation to kind of
[07:04.520 -> 07:06.680] be sitting here having a conversation about
[07:06.680 -> 07:11.120] the company that we created over a decade ago on my podcast.
[07:11.120 -> 07:16.720] And one thing you will find out about Sunil is that he's very modest and very self-deprecating.
[07:16.720 -> 07:21.480] But the truth is that Sunil's been the wind beneath the wings of Whisper for the last
[07:21.480 -> 07:26.500] 12 years, where we've grown from, well, the first two employees were Sunil and my wife, him working out of his spare
[07:26.500 -> 07:29.280] bedroom, Harriet working out of our spare bedroom.
[07:29.280 -> 07:32.080] And now we have over 200 people working in the business.
[07:32.080 -> 07:34.240] And I just thought it'd be really interesting, Sunil,
[07:34.240 -> 07:37.340] just to talk about how this whole journey has happened,
[07:37.340 -> 07:39.260] the things that we've learned along the way,
[07:39.260 -> 07:40.600] the successes and the failures,
[07:40.600 -> 07:44.000] because so many entrepreneurs listen to this podcast,
[07:44.000 -> 07:45.360] and they send me messages saying,
[07:45.360 -> 07:46.840] well, how have you done it?
[07:46.840 -> 07:48.200] I'd love to hear your story.
[07:48.200 -> 07:52.040] But I thought I couldn't tell my story about creating Whisper
[07:52.040 -> 07:55.040] without you being central to it.
[07:55.040 -> 07:57.600] So if I talk about the very beginning,
[07:57.600 -> 08:01.080] what do you consider to be the beginning of Whisper?
[08:01.080 -> 08:05.600] I think the genesis for me is it was born out of rejection
[08:09.080 -> 08:09.880] and frustration at kind of previous places I've worked
[08:14.440 -> 08:15.000] and the the ability to have ownership on something and
[08:20.060 -> 08:23.160] Control your own destiny and once I knew that was an option and it all started to sort of take shape But it was it was born out of that rejection piece really feeling like
[08:23.640 -> 08:25.580] Didn't necessarily fit in didn't really feel
[08:25.580 -> 08:31.420] There was an opportunity for me going forward. Would you expand on that idea of feeling rejected and not fitting in?
[08:31.420 -> 08:35.260] What did that look like for you? Do you know what I think it comes back to?
[08:36.520 -> 08:42.640] Just from being a kid very early on young. I didn't go to nursery
[08:42.640 -> 08:45.440] I went to junior school having not gone to nursery
[08:45.440 -> 08:50.720] I wasn't really equipped to communicate and mix with other children so I found
[08:50.720 -> 08:54.760] that hard I've always felt an outsider it's probably the only person probably
[08:54.760 -> 09:00.160] two of us of color in our junior school right infant school so always been on
[09:00.160 -> 09:07.800] the outside of things and that was difficult. And then going up through school, college,
[09:07.800 -> 09:13.280] always felt that bit of an outsider in terms of the family. I think it's well documented
[09:13.280 -> 09:18.680] Indian families have very high expectation of their children. Often it's kind of being
[09:18.680 -> 09:23.440] an accountant, being a lawyer, being a dentist, being a doctor, being a scientist. And for
[09:23.440 -> 09:25.660] me, I just didn't fit that mold and I
[09:25.760 -> 09:27.920] was kind of one of those kids at school where
[09:29.040 -> 09:34.620] Wasn't super academic, but I had something else and I think I had a work ethic and I had a drive
[09:34.940 -> 09:41.000] That was very early there with me and I and it wasn't until whisper that I unleashed that drive really
[09:41.240 -> 09:51.040] So tell us a bit about your parents and like what was their story? So super fortunate to kind of learn from my mum and dad and I was born
[09:51.040 -> 09:54.220] in Walsall which a lot of people don't know from this Mockney accent I now
[09:54.220 -> 09:59.640] carry. I was very lucky that mum and dad moved to London when I was very young
[09:59.640 -> 10:04.440] they ended up in Twickenham of all places and ended up with like most
[10:04.440 -> 10:05.640] Indian families at the time
[10:06.400 -> 10:11.240] With a news agents were your parents first generation. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and
[10:11.760 -> 10:15.880] And dad could barely speak English. Mom was not much better
[10:16.560 -> 10:23.160] Living in not the diverse world. We live find ourselves in these days and the more inclusive world that we have
[10:23.480 -> 10:25.960] It was tough seeing kind of some of the stuff that they went
[10:25.960 -> 10:29.000] through, people coming through the shop being abusive.
[10:30.000 -> 10:32.480] So that was really brutal.
[10:32.800 -> 10:36.360] But the one thing it taught me was I used to see my dad get up
[10:36.360 -> 10:40.760] at half five in the morning, open the shop, stand all day,
[10:40.840 -> 10:41.840] build the business.
[10:41.840 -> 10:47.520] And he would close the shop at half six, sweep up the front of the shop, tidy everything up,
[10:47.520 -> 10:48.720] and then we'd have dinner at seven.
[10:48.720 -> 10:50.480] And that would repeat six days a week.
[10:50.480 -> 10:53.440] And on Sunday, it would be finish at 1.30,
[10:53.440 -> 10:57.520] and our family time was pretty much two till six on a Sunday.
[10:57.520 -> 11:01.000] And I think that's where it was just baked into me.
[11:01.000 -> 11:02.560] That's kind of, you had to graft,
[11:02.560 -> 11:07.560] and my graft came from seeing my dad, my mom do it day in, day out.
[11:07.560 -> 11:10.080] So can I go back to that experience you said though,
[11:10.080 -> 11:11.600] seeing people come into the shop
[11:11.600 -> 11:14.080] and being abusive to your parents?
[11:14.080 -> 11:19.080] Because we had a guest on our live show, Vex King,
[11:19.720 -> 11:22.320] the author that spoke about a similar experience
[11:22.320 -> 11:30.080] and how that had almost been forged into who he was that that sense of helplessness as a young boy seeing
[11:30.080 -> 11:35.720] family members experiencing that kind of bigotry. What did it do for you? Did it
[11:35.720 -> 11:40.720] reinforce that outsider status? It did, it absolutely did and it wasn't until I
[11:40.720 -> 11:48.520] started challenging that. As a young kid I wasn't equipped with the skill set to kind of deal with other people and that's why I've been so
[11:48.520 -> 11:52.260] different with my kids getting into nursery very early, getting into mix with
[11:52.260 -> 11:56.160] other people, building their confidence to talk to adults. I've kind of instilled
[11:56.160 -> 12:00.840] that in my kids but for me I just didn't have that ability to communicate and
[12:00.840 -> 12:09.360] then I think there was a couple of light switch moments where I realized for me to fit in I had to do something different and it came through
[12:09.360 -> 12:14.800] school at school I realized for me to fit in I had to play sport I love sport
[12:14.800 -> 12:18.880] so kind of sport was been central to everything I've done and continue to do
[12:18.880 -> 12:27.080] and for me playing sport meant I could excel, or at least try and excel, and it made me kind of acceptable.
[12:27.080 -> 12:30.120] So if I was good at cricket or OK at football,
[12:30.120 -> 12:32.560] I'd be accepted by people around me at school.
[12:32.560 -> 12:36.040] And then at college, once I went through school,
[12:36.040 -> 12:37.560] it was about, right, I'm actually
[12:37.560 -> 12:39.100] going to work hard academically.
[12:39.100 -> 12:41.600] And I did well academically.
[12:41.600 -> 12:44.000] Then I left college, went to university,
[12:44.000 -> 12:45.960] and I went the other way and it became
[12:46.600 -> 12:49.960] For me to fit in and I have to a play rugby league
[12:49.960 -> 12:56.920] Which was alien coming from Twickenham and try and fit in this was in Salford in Salford brutal environment
[12:56.920 -> 13:00.800] But loved it, but the biggest thing for me was to be accepted
[13:00.800 -> 13:05.120] I had to party hard and I had to out party to fit in.
[13:08.460 -> 13:08.940] And that seems strange to concepts, but that's what I did.
[13:14.800 -> 13:14.860] I then left university, started my career and I made a massive mistake.
[13:15.860 -> 13:15.880] I didn't adjust.
[13:17.960 -> 13:18.760] I carried on partying, thinking that was it.
[13:22.060 -> 13:23.840] And it wasn't until kind of 10 years into my career. I thought, hang on, what am I doing here?
[13:24.080 -> 13:25.600] And it coincided with meeting Jake and starting the Formula One at the hang on, what am I doing here? And it coincided
[13:25.600 -> 13:30.240] with meeting Jake and starting the Formula One at the BBC where and then I started working hard.
[13:30.240 -> 13:34.400] Because you know, the first time I ever met Sonal, I was at some work event and I had never spoken to
[13:34.400 -> 13:38.480] him, but we all went out on a, having a few drinks and I was new to sports broadcasting.
[13:38.480 -> 13:39.440] This was at the BBC.
[13:39.440 -> 13:43.920] This was at the BBC. And there was, there was like a commotion or something. And this guy,
[13:44.720 -> 13:45.400] had you thrown your mobile phone into the a commotion or something. And this guy, had you thrown
[13:45.400 -> 13:49.760] your mobile phone into the river Thames or something? I was like, what's going on there?
[13:49.760 -> 13:54.120] They were like, oh, it's just one of the production team. And this kind of, I don't know if he
[13:54.120 -> 13:58.280] had you top off or you were like, whatever it was, like this mobile phone got hurled
[13:58.280 -> 14:03.160] into the Thames. And I thought, whoa, I might steer clear of him. And now here we are a
[14:03.160 -> 14:05.640] decade later having created this business together.
[14:05.640 -> 14:06.960] And I think we need to talk about that
[14:06.960 -> 14:08.840] because it's all about growth.
[14:08.840 -> 14:10.700] And I think one of the frustrations
[14:10.700 -> 14:12.980] for both Sunil and myself is that,
[14:12.980 -> 14:14.120] I think in this world,
[14:14.120 -> 14:15.880] people see you as a certain type of person.
[14:15.880 -> 14:18.940] So people would see me as a ex-kids presenter,
[14:18.940 -> 14:20.640] I still get that thrown at me all the time.
[14:20.640 -> 14:24.000] People would see Sunil as a member of the production team.
[14:24.000 -> 14:27.120] They still can't believe that we've gone on to create
[14:27.120 -> 14:29.240] a business turning over tens of millions of pounds
[14:29.240 -> 14:30.920] and employing hundreds of people,
[14:30.920 -> 14:34.280] because in their minds, they still see us as that.
[14:34.280 -> 14:36.240] And I think that having the belief,
[14:36.240 -> 14:39.000] that both of us having the belief that you're not fixed
[14:39.000 -> 14:40.320] and you're constantly growing,
[14:40.320 -> 14:43.060] I think is a really important lesson
[14:43.060 -> 14:44.400] that we want people to take away
[14:44.400 -> 14:47.360] from our journey of creating Whisper.
[14:47.360 -> 14:49.800] And it's lovely for me to hear that Sunil
[14:49.800 -> 14:52.840] kind of created this business out of rejection,
[14:52.840 -> 14:55.880] because I've sat and thought long and hard,
[14:55.880 -> 14:57.800] how did we end up building Whisper?
[14:58.760 -> 15:00.120] And it's only here in this conversation
[15:00.120 -> 15:02.940] that I realize that's exactly what I did as well.
[15:04.080 -> 15:07.840] Because I remember, I was badly bullied at,
[15:07.840 -> 15:12.000] when we moved house, when I was coming towards the end of primary school,
[15:12.000 -> 15:14.080] just before we went to high school, and you know at that point all of the
[15:14.080 -> 15:17.920] cliques and all the friendship groups had like created already.
[15:17.920 -> 15:21.440] So I remember us moving house and I went into this junior school.
[15:21.440 -> 15:22.880] So did you move out of the area?
[15:22.880 -> 15:28.520] Moved from Peterborough to Norwich, yeah. And they were all their mates already so I was then like on the
[15:28.520 -> 15:32.640] outside and then before I knew it that school had, we'd all moved to high school
[15:32.640 -> 15:37.600] together and I was still the outsider. So I started doing stupid stuff like lying
[15:37.600 -> 15:42.760] to fit in, oh my uncle plays for Norwich City or whatever it was. Some, you know,
[15:42.760 -> 15:46.880] ridiculous lie, oh yeah I'm a semi-professional
[15:46.880 -> 15:48.960] footballer, I was like 11 years old, what was I talking about?
[15:48.960 -> 15:49.920] I've seen you play football.
[15:49.920 -> 15:55.680] Exactly, not even. But it was a desperation to fit in, and I never really did. And then
[15:56.400 -> 16:01.600] I went all the way through high school as not really fitting in, not really excelling at
[16:01.600 -> 16:05.840] anything. I did okay in my GCSEs, started
[16:05.840 -> 16:11.360] A-levels, failed all three of my A-levels, got an E, an N and a U. I had a job at McDonald's
[16:11.360 -> 16:15.120] I got fired from, so I didn't fit in there. And then I had to go back to school to redo
[16:15.120 -> 16:19.360] my A-levels for a whole year. And I didn't fit in there either because I was suddenly
[16:19.360 -> 16:22.640] with kids a year younger. And you know what it's like at school, you never talk to the
[16:22.640 -> 16:26.860] kids who are a year below you because it feels like a lifetime away.
[16:26.860 -> 16:28.620] So I didn't fit in there.
[16:28.620 -> 16:30.960] And then that led me to doing work experience,
[16:30.960 -> 16:33.660] which got me a job in TV in Norwich.
[16:33.660 -> 16:36.080] And I remember starting that,
[16:37.580 -> 16:40.760] and I never had any ambition to be a presenter
[16:40.760 -> 16:41.820] or be on the stage or anything,
[16:41.820 -> 16:47.580] and very quickly I liked the idea of being a presenter, but they didn't really employ presenters.
[16:47.580 -> 16:49.920] So they used me to do bits and pieces of it,
[16:49.920 -> 16:51.720] but I was a kid retaking his A-levels
[16:51.720 -> 16:54.500] who suddenly was talking about being a TV presenter
[16:54.500 -> 16:57.940] in this world of full-time TV employees.
[16:57.940 -> 17:00.600] So I didn't really fit in there either.
[17:00.600 -> 17:03.980] So actually, there's this constant story for both of us
[17:03.980 -> 17:05.940] from our backgrounds of not fitting
[17:05.940 -> 17:06.940] in.
[17:06.940 -> 17:10.580] And I think that we make the mistake of assuming all three of us are now parents, right?
[17:10.580 -> 17:12.700] We look at our kids and think, well, I hope they fit in.
[17:12.700 -> 17:14.180] I hope they've got loads of mates.
[17:14.180 -> 17:15.820] I hope they're the successful one at school.
[17:15.820 -> 17:17.620] I hope they're popular.
[17:17.620 -> 17:22.660] All of that stuff, I don't think matters when it comes to actually what they're going to
[17:22.660 -> 17:23.660] achieve with their lives.
[17:23.660 -> 17:27.500] I think sometimes the people that achieve the most are the ones that don't fit in,
[17:27.500 -> 17:29.000] because they're the scrappers.
[17:29.000 -> 17:31.500] Yeah, I've got this big issue with education,
[17:31.500 -> 17:35.500] and I think it's broken in the sense that you are deemed,
[17:35.500 -> 17:39.000] at such a young age, you're deemed a success or a failure
[17:39.000 -> 17:41.500] based on whether you're good at English, maths or science.
[17:41.500 -> 17:46.000] And if you're in that pool that sits out of being kind of an ASAR student or an A to C
[17:46.000 -> 17:48.920] or kind of even below that, you're deemed a failure.
[17:48.920 -> 17:51.320] And actually, I know for myself that I
[17:51.320 -> 17:55.000] wasn't kind of in that bracket of excelling in school.
[17:55.000 -> 17:58.080] But I've made a pretty successful career out of it now.
[17:58.080 -> 18:00.640] And I think, I just feel for all those kids
[18:00.640 -> 18:04.740] now that are just getting pulled into, yeah, no hope,
[18:04.740 -> 18:07.440] just because they don't fit into the kind of English maths.
[18:07.440 -> 18:09.440] We were then two misfits that kind of found each other,
[18:09.440 -> 18:10.280] weren't we?
[18:10.280 -> 18:12.200] Well, yeah, absolutely.
[18:12.200 -> 18:13.800] But what intrigues me though, Sunil,
[18:13.800 -> 18:15.160] and same for you as well, Jake,
[18:15.160 -> 18:18.680] is that you've been on the outside of societies,
[18:18.680 -> 18:21.640] but you describe like going up to university in Salford
[18:21.640 -> 18:23.560] as a pretty brutal environment.
[18:23.560 -> 18:30.360] You're going into a TV industry that is bare knuckle in terms of that to go as
[18:30.360 -> 18:36.240] outsiders into environments that are not warm, welcoming places, but places that
[18:36.240 -> 18:38.680] actually are going to test you even more.
[18:38.680 -> 18:43.000] Do you think that outsider status gave you almost a superpower, like a force
[18:43.000 -> 18:45.000] field, because you'd already experienced rejection.
[18:45.000 -> 18:50.000] I don't know about Sunil, but I absolutely had no doubts
[18:50.000 -> 18:52.000] that we would make Whisper a success
[18:52.000 -> 18:54.000] when we first started having the conversation.
[18:54.000 -> 18:58.000] So, the way this all happened was that the outsider, Sunil,
[18:58.000 -> 19:01.000] found himself working in Formula One on the production team.
[19:01.000 -> 19:04.000] The outsider, Jake, found himself as the presenter.
[19:04.000 -> 19:08.080] But we were constantly frustrated and constantly let down by
[19:08.080 -> 19:12.400] the quality of content that independent production companies were bringing to
[19:12.400 -> 19:14.720] the paddock. So for example, they would come to us on
[19:14.720 -> 19:18.480] the BBC and they'd say, if we get two great drivers and a great car on a
[19:18.480 -> 19:22.240] great track, do you want the footage? And we'd say, yeah, of course, we can put
[19:22.240 -> 19:24.320] that on the telly, but it would arrive and it would be either covered in
[19:24.320 -> 19:27.060] advertising or badly shot or poor sound.
[19:27.060 -> 19:29.160] It was just awful.
[19:29.160 -> 19:34.000] And at the same time, BBC Sport were moving to Manchester and Sonal didn't want to move
[19:34.000 -> 19:35.000] to Manchester.
[19:35.000 -> 19:37.600] And I, you've been put off by your first visit.
[19:37.600 -> 19:41.720] Do you know what was interesting about that is I could have moved.
[19:41.720 -> 19:47.200] I met my wife at the time at university in Salford.
[19:47.200 -> 19:50.360] And a lot of my friends stayed up in Manchester in the north.
[19:50.360 -> 19:52.440] So out of all the people in our department,
[19:52.440 -> 19:54.680] I had a kind of life to fit into.
[19:54.680 -> 19:56.480] But I just didn't fancy it.
[19:56.480 -> 19:57.520] Why?
[19:57.520 -> 19:59.720] I think I just loved my life in London.
[19:59.720 -> 20:02.200] I loved my mates.
[20:02.200 -> 20:03.600] I just loved that environment.
[20:03.600 -> 20:06.320] And it was a big risk because I didn't really
[20:06.320 -> 20:11.940] have anything to go to and it's just kind of the luck of Whisper happening and giving
[20:11.940 -> 20:12.940] me that outlet.
[20:12.940 -> 20:19.560] Let's be clear what happened here. I mean, I had a job and I'd never left my job. I remained
[20:19.560 -> 20:23.200] the presenter of the BBC's Formula One and then ended up going to BT Sport, right? Both
[20:23.200 -> 20:25.840] of them well-paid jobs.
[20:25.840 -> 20:27.500] There's no risk for me here.
[20:27.500 -> 20:30.560] The risk was all on Sonal, because he had a job.
[20:30.560 -> 20:32.960] He had the opportunity to go to Manchester.
[20:32.960 -> 20:36.840] We just got together in the paddock in the Italian Grand Prix
[20:36.840 -> 20:40.240] and said, look, why don't we just create our own company
[20:40.240 -> 20:41.960] and we can go to all of these Formula One.
[20:41.960 -> 20:44.320] And we were naive as well, which I think is a superpower.
[20:44.320 -> 20:46.320] I would say, do this stuff when you're naive, man,
[20:46.320 -> 20:48.960] because you don't see all the problems that might happen.
[20:48.960 -> 20:50.160] We thought it would be easy.
[20:50.160 -> 20:51.360] It wasn't, but we thought it was.
[20:51.360 -> 20:52.400] And that's the reason we did it.
[20:52.400 -> 20:54.960] If we'd have known all this, we might never have done it.
[20:54.960 -> 20:56.560] So we got together, had this conversation.
[20:56.560 -> 20:58.000] Let's set up a production company.
[20:58.880 -> 21:01.360] Didn't have a name, didn't have anything, didn't have an office.
[21:01.360 -> 21:03.440] Son of them walked away from his job
[21:04.240 -> 21:06.040] to join a business that two of us had
[21:06.040 -> 21:11.040] created and basically went to work one morning in his back bedroom and there's
[21:11.040 -> 21:11.360] nothing.
[21:11.560 -> 21:15.600] But if you pause there then, because that like, it's an easy thing to say.
[21:15.600 -> 21:19.600] You walked away from it, but you're a child of first generation immigrants
[21:19.600 -> 21:25.000] where expectations high that you haven't pursued the career of law or medicine
[21:25.000 -> 21:30.200] you've gone down the TV production route and now you're walking away to set up a
[21:30.200 -> 21:34.640] business with no guarantees of it none of that is easy so tell us your thought
[21:34.640 -> 21:41.000] processes behind the courage to do that I love taking a risk one thing I've
[21:41.000 -> 21:44.280] always come to terms with understand what the worst-case scenario is and get
[21:44.280 -> 21:45.320] comfortable with it.
[21:45.320 -> 21:47.280] And I knew that if it didn't work,
[21:47.280 -> 21:50.440] I didn't have quite the conviction that Jake had.
[21:50.440 -> 21:52.880] I thought I've got a reasonable chance with Jake on board
[21:52.880 -> 21:54.400] and David Coulthard on board.
[21:54.400 -> 21:56.000] No, but don't forget at this point in DC,
[21:56.000 -> 21:57.320] it wasn't involved.
[21:57.320 -> 21:59.440] So we'd set, so you really, in some ways,
[21:59.440 -> 22:00.760] were you taking a bit of a risk on me,
[22:00.760 -> 22:03.840] thinking, well, he's on the telly, so we'll win a,
[22:03.840 -> 22:05.640] we'll win a few contracts because he's on the TV.
[22:05.640 -> 22:09.560] I remember finding my best mate is an accountant and massive
[22:09.560 -> 22:12.760] role model for me and kind of use them as a really good sounding
[22:12.760 -> 22:13.000] board.
[22:13.000 -> 22:13.800] Is a friend from school.
[22:13.800 -> 22:18.120] Yeah, yeah. With like still best mates since school. He's an
[22:18.120 -> 22:21.880] accountant, but using to sound kind of ideas off and I phoned
[22:21.880 -> 22:25.640] him up when I was sorting this out. And I said, oh, let's leave the BBC.
[22:25.640 -> 22:27.160] Why are you doing that?
[22:27.160 -> 22:28.280] Why are you leaving the BBC?
[22:28.280 -> 22:30.200] I want to set up a production company.
[22:30.200 -> 22:31.120] Who with?
[22:31.120 -> 22:32.440] Oh, Jake.
[22:32.440 -> 22:35.160] Why does Jake want to set up a production company with you?
[22:35.160 -> 22:37.440] I was like, uh, I don't know.
[22:37.440 -> 22:38.240] I don't know.
[22:38.240 -> 22:39.600] I think we can make a go of it.
[22:39.600 -> 22:42.280] Anyway, and he's always been a massive supporter of me.
[22:42.280 -> 22:46.600] But then David came on board and
[22:52.800 -> 22:55.240] Had the same conversation I said David's coming on board it and he'd said how much you paying David and I was like no David wants To pay us and come on board. He's like, I don't know
[22:55.560 -> 22:59.600] This is a ridiculous story. So we we realized pretty quickly
[23:00.280 -> 23:04.040] That maybe we needed someone who had a commercial bone in their body
[23:04.480 -> 23:09.200] Because we did not I mean we both had come through the BBC school, you know,
[23:09.200 -> 23:11.400] we had no commercial mindset at all.
[23:11.400 -> 23:14.400] We weren't business people in any way, shape or form.
[23:14.400 -> 23:16.400] And I want people listening to this to realise that
[23:16.400 -> 23:20.200] you can't not do these things because you haven't had the education in business,
[23:20.200 -> 23:22.400] or you don't know anything about running a business.
[23:22.400 -> 23:25.360] The only way to find that motivation is to do it.
[23:25.360 -> 23:26.760] Action leads to motivation.
[23:26.760 -> 23:29.520] So just make the decision to do it, which we did.
[23:29.520 -> 23:32.240] And look, let me put the caveat in,
[23:32.240 -> 23:35.320] you know, I was on the TV and we were working in Formula One.
[23:35.320 -> 23:37.640] Let's not try and make this out to be something it isn't.
[23:37.640 -> 23:39.040] We were privileged in that sense
[23:39.040 -> 23:41.360] that we had some kind of opportunity,
[23:41.360 -> 23:43.240] but then hundreds of thousands of people
[23:43.240 -> 23:46.880] have come before us with opportunity that haven't taken it.
[23:47.440 -> 23:48.880] So,
[23:48.880 -> 23:53.760] we realized we needed some help and we went to see DC and he said, look, you know loads of people in the paddock,
[23:53.760 -> 23:55.440] you've been around for years.
[23:55.440 -> 24:02.280] Would you consider getting involved in in our little production venture? And he said, what would it cost me to be involved?
[24:02.680 -> 24:05.400] And we were thinking, well, we weren't expecting that kind of question.
[24:05.400 -> 24:08.200] So I said, I think I said to Sonno, what do you reckon?
[24:08.200 -> 24:14.480] And he said, well, I need a new bathroom, which is going to cost me a few grand.
[24:14.480 -> 24:18.680] So if you can get him to pay a few grand, then I can get my bathroom renovated.
[24:18.680 -> 24:20.800] And he's in the business.
[24:20.800 -> 24:25.480] So amazingly, DC, I mean, it's still the best investment DC has ever made by the way.
[24:25.480 -> 24:28.520] David then came on board as our third partner
[24:28.520 -> 24:30.200] to create Whisper.
[24:31.120 -> 24:33.880] And that was really where the story began.
[24:33.880 -> 24:35.240] So let's sort of pick it all then,
[24:35.240 -> 24:37.440] cause I'm interested in this idea that,
[24:37.440 -> 24:39.040] cause you're the one that with all the risk here
[24:39.040 -> 24:41.680] that you've got Jake on board,
[24:41.680 -> 24:44.360] David has come on board with it.
[24:44.360 -> 24:47.960] Tell us what your thought processes were at this stage.
[24:47.960 -> 24:51.880] At that point, I'm thinking, I've got something here.
[24:51.880 -> 24:54.040] I've got a team, and team for me is everything.
[24:54.040 -> 24:55.240] I'm all about people around me.
[24:55.240 -> 24:57.600] You cannot build anything by yourself.
[24:57.600 -> 24:59.760] You have to have good people around you.
[24:59.760 -> 25:01.840] And part of my success, a lot of my success
[25:01.840 -> 25:03.560] is having Jake and David around me.
[25:03.560 -> 25:08.340] And they don't do much in terms of for me personally but what they do do is
[25:08.340 -> 25:14.460] empower me and have time and time again giving me the confidence and the room to
[25:14.460 -> 25:19.920] grow so give us an example of what that looks like then it's it's just simple
[25:19.920 -> 25:23.880] it's just kind of encouragement kind of belief and that they're just little
[25:23.880 -> 25:26.560] things it's not it's not as if I have hours on end
[25:26.560 -> 25:28.360] with David and Jake on the phone,
[25:28.360 -> 25:29.400] it might just be a little message
[25:29.400 -> 25:30.960] or I might've got something wrong
[25:30.960 -> 25:32.520] and they're like, don't worry about that.
[25:32.520 -> 25:34.520] Got your back, you're going to fly.
[25:34.520 -> 25:37.880] It's just total, total, total belief in me,
[25:37.880 -> 25:40.640] which then makes me feel 10 foot tall
[25:40.640 -> 25:43.760] and makes me empowered to get on with it with my team.
[25:43.760 -> 25:45.200] It's then again, it's not about me.
[25:45.200 -> 25:46.960] It's about kind of the team I've built around me,
[25:46.960 -> 25:50.360] my management team and everyone who's come since then.
[25:50.360 -> 25:54.520] So you've heard the consequences of that.
[25:54.520 -> 25:57.080] What is it in Sunil that you see Jake,
[25:57.080 -> 26:01.360] that gives you that confidence to just have that trust
[26:01.360 -> 26:02.400] and belief in him?
[26:02.400 -> 26:05.920] I've never met someone who is so focused
[26:05.920 -> 26:07.680] on the smallest of margins.
[26:07.680 -> 26:09.840] Like if you're watching this interview now on YouTube,
[26:09.840 -> 26:11.240] rather than listening to it as a podcast,
[26:11.240 -> 26:13.160] you'll see that someone's got his branded water bottle,
[26:13.160 -> 26:15.360] he's got his branded cap.
[26:15.360 -> 26:17.760] If Whisper were producing this podcast today,
[26:17.760 -> 26:20.640] every single person would be wearing a Whisper t-shirt.
[26:20.640 -> 26:23.400] When people join our business, they get given a playbook,
[26:23.400 -> 26:27.600] which has the ethos and the non-negotiable beliefs
[26:28.500 -> 26:30.460] of our business and how we create ourselves
[26:30.460 -> 26:32.820] and how we carry ourselves as a business.
[26:32.820 -> 26:35.420] All of these tiny details on their own
[26:35.420 -> 26:36.420] won't make a difference,
[26:36.420 -> 26:38.520] but when you put them all together, they will.
[26:38.520 -> 26:40.120] And I'd spent my life meeting people
[26:40.120 -> 26:41.280] who were brilliant creatives
[26:41.280 -> 26:43.620] or meeting people who were really well-organized.
[26:43.620 -> 26:44.940] I'd never met anyone like Sonal
[26:44.940 -> 26:46.240] who can do the creative stuff,
[26:46.880 -> 26:51.120] but then is also really organised as well. But we still had no work at this point.
[26:51.120 -> 26:54.800] And I'll never forget going to the Williams Formula One team and saying to them,
[26:56.160 -> 26:59.200] would you mind giving us a shot? Would you mind giving us a chance
[26:59.200 -> 27:02.800] to produce some content for you? And they amazingly agreed to allow us-
[27:02.800 -> 27:03.680] Steve Maroon In the room.
[27:03.680 -> 27:09.480] Jason Vale In the room to produce their content. Steve Mar were there? Yeah, while we were there. They said okay we'll
[27:09.480 -> 27:14.100] give you our budget for the year which wasn't much it was a few thousand pounds
[27:14.100 -> 27:20.260] you know and we that was enough for us to feel like we then had a business so
[27:20.260 -> 27:22.920] we'd gone to the Williams Formula One team we'd said we're setting ourselves up and
[27:22.920 -> 27:25.600] basically what we said to them is we'll give you the very best quality content
[27:26.160 -> 27:28.000] for less money than you're already paying.
[27:28.000 -> 27:28.640] What do you think?
[27:29.760 -> 27:32.480] And that was the whole pitch of our entire business.
[27:33.040 -> 27:34.480] And they agreed to it.
[27:34.480 -> 27:36.960] We left in disbelief.
[27:36.960 -> 27:38.400] I still remember the feeling now, don't you?
[27:38.400 -> 27:41.360] Of just utter disbelief that someone had said, okay.
[27:41.360 -> 27:43.040] And we pulled into a lay-by around the corner
[27:43.040 -> 27:44.880] from their factory in Grove and started dancing
[27:45.620 -> 27:50.220] next to the car until his son went, hold on, they might be looking out the window.
[27:50.220 -> 27:51.220] They might not think this is very professional.
[27:51.220 -> 27:55.320] And then we got in the car and drove back to London and we were like, well, we better
[27:55.320 -> 27:56.480] think of a name of the business.
[27:56.480 -> 27:57.880] We better name the business.
[27:57.880 -> 28:01.900] And on that journey, Whisper was, was created.
[28:01.900 -> 28:04.900] Was that your idea?
[28:04.900 -> 28:10.540] The name? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, by the way, it's not a cult in terms of not everything is branded at whisper
[28:12.300 -> 28:15.660] Yeah, I remember that journey very vividly thinking
[28:16.420 -> 28:20.180] everything just in fast forward and then at the same time trying to come up with a name and
[28:21.000 -> 28:23.000] Lots of people have asked me where that came from
[28:22.960 -> 28:23.280] And lots of people have asked me where that came from.
[28:26.480 -> 28:26.880] Here was my first lad's holiday away in 96.
[28:30.480 -> 28:30.840] We, uh, we end up in a bar called Whisper in Magaluf.
[28:31.800 -> 28:32.240] And that's where it came from.
[28:34.120 -> 28:34.160] Nothing, nothing more than that.
[28:39.080 -> 28:39.360] But then go back to that observation Jake made of you that like the, the last 10%
[28:41.040 -> 28:41.520] is where you come alive.
[28:42.560 -> 28:47.320] Where does that come from? That, that creative mindset and yet the ability to get into the weeds?
[28:47.320 -> 28:52.320] I think a strength and a weakness of mine is I'm obsessive.
[28:52.360 -> 28:55.160] I'm relentlessly obsessive about everything.
[28:55.160 -> 28:58.360] And that has been very useful to get to this point,
[28:58.360 -> 29:00.680] but it's also been very damaging to get to this point.
[29:00.680 -> 29:02.360] For me, I've had lots of highs,
[29:02.360 -> 29:04.660] lots of lows as a result of being obsessive.
[29:04.660 -> 29:05.200] Not many people can live of lows as a result of being obsessive.
[29:05.200 -> 29:07.520] Not many people can live with that as a partner,
[29:07.520 -> 29:11.480] in terms of a business partner or personally.
[29:11.480 -> 29:14.120] Friends, it's a tough place to be around when you're
[29:14.120 -> 29:17.280] kind of on every little detail.
[29:17.280 -> 29:19.800] And thankfully, over the last two years,
[29:19.800 -> 29:23.000] I've found a bit of inner peace with myself.
[29:23.000 -> 29:27.640] And that obsessive, relentless nature is just subsided a little bit.
[29:27.880 -> 29:31.360] And also I think, I don't think I'm overly talented,
[29:32.160 -> 29:37.160] but I think I can do two things that I can control the levels that I
[29:37.160 -> 29:41.440] operate at. And it's be a nice person and work hard. Pre COVID,
[29:41.440 -> 29:46.840] we used to have work experience kids come in every week. And every Friday, I'd sit down with every single
[29:46.840 -> 29:49.920] one of them for 15 minutes, just to let them have time with me.
[29:50.200 -> 29:52.440] And not that I'm anything special, but to them, kind of
[29:52.440 -> 29:56.080] I'm the boss of the business. And over time that they'd asked
[29:56.080 -> 30:00.240] me the same question, what, what do you look for in a hire? And
[30:01.000 -> 30:04.000] it's almost become my non negotiable. Two things that
[30:04.000 -> 30:06.920] whether you're the CEO of a business
[30:06.920 -> 30:08.000] that's been running for 12 years,
[30:08.000 -> 30:10.600] you've been in the industry 20 plus years,
[30:10.600 -> 30:15.080] or you're a work experience still at school, college,
[30:15.080 -> 30:18.040] you can be a nice person and you can work hard.
[30:18.040 -> 30:20.160] And it's still two things I teach my kids.
[30:20.160 -> 30:22.280] Like, I'm not too worried about the schoolwork,
[30:22.280 -> 30:24.720] but if you can say please and thank you,
[30:24.720 -> 30:25.840] and you can stick a shift in
[30:26.640 -> 30:31.920] And and go and go again, then I think you'll do all right in life. And I think that's the biggest take out
[30:32.640 -> 30:34.960] I'd give to anyone on this this kind of listening
[30:35.440 -> 30:41.280] I like the bit about go and go again because if if we look at the early years of whisper long before it is the business
[30:41.280 -> 30:42.720] That it is now
[30:42.720 -> 30:44.720] We did have to go and go again
[30:44.800 -> 30:48.660] Because it was constantly full of rejection and knockback.
[30:48.660 -> 30:50.660] And I'd be really interested to hear you
[30:50.660 -> 30:51.500] talk about this as well,
[30:51.500 -> 30:54.560] but one of the hardest things actually for me
[30:54.560 -> 30:57.140] is that people in the TV industry
[30:57.140 -> 30:59.260] were very difficult to convince
[30:59.260 -> 31:02.540] that they should use us to produce content for them.
[31:02.540 -> 31:05.080] And I think this again comes back to a growth mindset.
[31:05.080 -> 31:09.320] You know, why can't an ex-kids TV presenter
[31:09.320 -> 31:11.440] who's done a bit of Formula One
[31:11.440 -> 31:13.400] and a guy who's worked on the production,
[31:13.400 -> 31:16.360] why can't they go and produce a big programme
[31:16.360 -> 31:19.040] for one of the network channels in the UK?
[31:19.040 -> 31:21.280] The kind of feeling that we were getting
[31:21.280 -> 31:22.560] from the industry at this point was,
[31:22.560 -> 31:25.200] well, you're not a production company,
[31:25.200 -> 31:29.160] you're a couple of people that work in telly having a go.
[31:29.160 -> 31:33.700] And we just weren't getting a single opportunity, were we,
[31:33.700 -> 31:35.200] to make a television program.
[31:35.200 -> 31:38.060] And I remember that being an absolute shock for me,
[31:38.060 -> 31:39.920] that we kind of thought, you know,
[31:39.920 -> 31:41.860] a bit of commercial work would be nice,
[31:41.860 -> 31:43.500] but we wanted to make TV.
[31:43.500 -> 31:47.220] And we wanted to make TV better than anybody else makes TV,
[31:47.220 -> 31:49.380] but nobody would give us a job.
[31:49.380 -> 31:51.560] So how did you handle that then, Sona?
[31:51.560 -> 31:53.460] Again, didn't handle it that well.
[31:53.460 -> 31:55.820] I felt I got frustrated, got very down,
[31:55.820 -> 31:58.980] got, and that sense of rejection came,
[31:58.980 -> 32:02.220] like that euphoria of working for the likes of Red Bull,
[32:02.220 -> 32:06.800] Hugo Boss, Shell, Williams, that was flying, but at the heart of it
[32:06.800 -> 32:09.640] I was a TV producer and Jake was a TV presenter,
[32:09.640 -> 32:11.000] and we couldn't break that environment.
[32:11.000 -> 32:14.200] And actually I remember how it all kind of changed,
[32:14.200 -> 32:17.400] and it's interesting about listening to your gut,
[32:17.400 -> 32:20.000] and some of the biggest mistakes I've made in my career
[32:20.000 -> 32:21.600] have been when I haven't listened to myself,
[32:21.600 -> 32:23.200] but actually one of the best examples
[32:23.200 -> 32:24.600] of actually going with your gut
[32:24.600 -> 32:25.200] was when.
[32:25.760 -> 32:31.520] Myself Jake and David decided that we would let channel 4 invest in the business.
[32:31.840 -> 32:39.200] Now we didn't need the money we've been super frugal with kind of money with ball and we left it in the business we're financially robust we didn't need any investment.
[32:43.040 -> 32:45.640] What we decided, what I saw as an opportunity was, if Channel 4 come on and invest in us,
[32:45.640 -> 32:47.400] it'll give us instant credibility
[32:47.400 -> 32:51.560] that if a broadcaster in the UK trusts this business,
[32:51.560 -> 32:53.880] then we can trust them to produce X, Y, Z.
[32:53.880 -> 32:55.280] From that moment on,
[32:56.160 -> 32:59.520] we started producing NFL for the NFL and the BBC.
[32:59.520 -> 33:01.040] We then won the Formula One.
[33:01.040 -> 33:03.760] We then won women's football and everything exploded.
[33:03.760 -> 33:08.480] But the amount of people that said to me at the time, don't do it, Jake, David were on board by the way,
[33:08.480 -> 33:12.880] there was a lot of people, a lot of experience, a lot of business acumen that were, don't
[33:12.880 -> 33:16.120] do it, don't do it, why are you giving away X percent of your business? But I could see
[33:16.120 -> 33:21.000] the opportunity. And I think for me, I've always been kind of fortunate to, to kind
[33:21.000 -> 33:26.380] of almost see two, three steps ahead of where I want to get to and work back from that goal.
[33:26.380 -> 33:28.460] You described that like anyone that comes
[33:28.460 -> 33:31.900] into your whisper world, it's about being a nice person
[33:31.900 -> 33:34.260] and working hard, the two controllables.
[33:34.260 -> 33:37.200] When you're giving away equity in a business,
[33:37.200 -> 33:39.620] what are the criteria that you're looking at
[33:39.620 -> 33:43.280] beyond the commercial relationship?
[33:43.280 -> 33:45.600] What is it that gives you that gut instinct
[33:45.600 -> 33:47.920] that says we can work together?
[33:47.920 -> 33:51.340] I think with Channel 4 it was what they stood for.
[33:51.340 -> 33:53.480] I mean, they were a disruptor,
[33:53.480 -> 33:56.200] and they still remain as a disruptor
[33:56.200 -> 33:58.160] in the broadcast industry.
[33:58.160 -> 34:00.080] The people that brought us into the room,
[34:00.080 -> 34:02.780] so the likes of David Abraham, Jay Hunt,
[34:02.780 -> 34:05.640] were instrumental in making that decision for me personally,
[34:05.640 -> 34:07.920] and kind of aspirational characters,
[34:07.920 -> 34:09.880] people that inspired me to feel like
[34:09.880 -> 34:11.280] I could go to the next level.
[34:11.280 -> 34:16.280] And I think the other thing for us has always been ambition,
[34:16.400 -> 34:19.180] like ambition with complete scale.
[34:19.180 -> 34:20.920] So I remember when we first had this conversation
[34:20.920 -> 34:23.400] with Channel 4, and just so people understand,
[34:23.400 -> 34:24.920] Channel 4 have something called the Growth Fund,
[34:24.920 -> 34:28.160] where they invest in small companies that they see potential
[34:28.160 -> 34:32.440] in. So how many years in had we been running Whisper by the time Channel 4 came on board?
[34:32.440 -> 34:35.200] Channel 4 came on board in 2015, 16.
[34:35.200 -> 34:38.880] We were only going for three years and we were tiny. We still had maybe four or five
[34:38.880 -> 34:43.760] members of staff. We were turning over not very much money, but Channel 4 were interested
[34:43.760 -> 34:45.280] because they liked the setup of the business,
[34:45.280 -> 34:46.560] they liked the fact we had no debt,
[34:46.560 -> 34:49.440] that we had a little bit of work going on.
[34:49.440 -> 34:50.280] But I think more than that,
[34:50.280 -> 34:51.760] I think what they liked was our ambition.
[34:51.760 -> 34:53.680] Because I think when we first spoke with Channel 4
[34:53.680 -> 34:55.800] and they said, you know, what do you want to be?
[34:55.800 -> 34:57.560] I have no shame in admitting that we both said,
[34:57.560 -> 35:00.280] we want to be the biggest production company in the UK.
[35:00.280 -> 35:01.240] At that point, probably we said
[35:01.240 -> 35:02.800] the biggest sports production company,
[35:02.800 -> 35:05.800] because at that time we were very focused on doing sport.
[35:05.800 -> 35:11.000] But I don't see the benefit in believing that you're going to be anything other than
[35:11.000 -> 35:14.000] as amazingly successful as you want to be.
[35:14.000 -> 35:18.400] Why shouldn't the High Performance Podcast be the biggest podcast on the planet?
[35:18.400 -> 35:22.400] Why shouldn't the High Performance book be the best-selling business book ever?
[35:22.400 -> 35:25.460] Why shouldn't Whisper be the biggest production company
[35:25.460 -> 35:29.480] in the UK? Because if you think any smaller than that, then you're definitely never going
[35:29.480 -> 35:34.160] to get there. And wouldn't it be bloody exciting just to see if we could get there. So Channel
[35:34.160 -> 35:37.840] 4 came on board, but then I think it's important to remember that that brought some of its
[35:37.840 -> 35:47.440] own challenges. People viewed us winning the Formula One contract with real suspicion, because we had been,
[35:47.440 -> 35:49.700] we'd become part of Channel 4 through the growth fund.
[35:49.700 -> 35:51.480] And I'll tell you a story about this
[35:51.480 -> 35:53.560] that shows you how much it was absolutely not,
[35:53.560 -> 35:55.520] it was almost the opposite.
[35:55.520 -> 35:58.800] So the lady who was in charge of Channel 4 at the time,
[35:58.800 -> 36:02.820] she wanted me to leave BT Sport and become a presenter
[36:02.820 -> 36:06.840] on Channel 4 again, doing Formula One. Now the problem for me with that
[36:06.840 -> 36:09.720] was that it just tied two things too closely together,
[36:09.720 -> 36:12.280] because we wanted to win this contract.
[36:12.280 -> 36:13.960] So do you know what we decided to do?
[36:13.960 -> 36:17.240] We decided that I would not leave BT Sport,
[36:17.240 -> 36:19.000] but that we would go to all the people
[36:19.000 -> 36:22.440] who'd worked on the Formula One coverage
[36:22.440 -> 36:27.280] for the BBC where it was previously, and we would get them to agree to work with us.
[36:27.280 -> 36:32.400] And we would make a booklet about all of the amazing people that we'd hired.
[36:32.400 -> 36:38.960] And I remember putting something on there like a combined total of 500 years of Formula
[36:38.960 -> 36:39.960] One broadcast experience.
[36:39.960 -> 36:47.060] And then we went to Channel 4 and we said to Jay Hunt, it was the boss at the time, we said,
[36:47.060 -> 36:49.640] we want to produce this,
[36:49.640 -> 36:52.280] and you might look at Whisper as a name
[36:52.280 -> 36:54.080] that is totally new in the industry,
[36:54.080 -> 36:55.800] but take a look at this book that we've produced.
[36:55.800 -> 36:58.480] These are the people who will be working for us,
[36:58.480 -> 37:00.200] because we believe at Whisper that every business
[37:00.200 -> 37:01.440] is a recruitment business.
[37:01.440 -> 37:02.760] These are the people.
[37:02.760 -> 37:05.780] They have hundreds of hours of experience
[37:05.780 -> 37:07.580] of producing Formula One coverage.
[37:08.580 -> 37:10.220] Those are the people that will be making this program
[37:10.220 -> 37:11.940] for you, and we want it.
[37:11.940 -> 37:14.060] And it's the thing I'm still most proud of,
[37:14.060 -> 37:18.020] that we had the innovative, back-to-front approach
[37:18.020 -> 37:20.740] to create a booklet to try and win a TV contract.
[37:20.740 -> 37:22.060] Nobody does that.
[37:22.060 -> 37:27.000] I think it's important part of what's driven me is having that kind of ability to think ahead.
[37:27.000 -> 37:28.000] Yeah.
[37:28.000 -> 37:31.000] It was no surprise that we won the Formula One to me.
[37:31.000 -> 37:35.000] It's a surprise we won it, but getting to that opportunity was not a surprise.
[37:35.000 -> 37:38.000] So if you go back to the story, we worked in Formula One.
[37:38.000 -> 37:42.000] We were working in the branded space, we were in the paddock, we had credibility.
[37:42.000 -> 37:45.900] I'd produced Formula One.
[37:45.900 -> 37:47.380] Jake had presented Formula One.
[37:47.380 -> 37:50.360] David had won 13 Grands Prix, just come out of racing,
[37:50.360 -> 37:53.560] connected with the black book like no one else.
[37:53.560 -> 37:55.040] So we started the branded stuff,
[37:55.040 -> 37:58.000] and I knew the BBC were going to give up Formula One
[37:58.000 -> 38:00.160] because it just didn't work for them financially.
[38:00.160 -> 38:04.200] And I knew Jay wanted the Formula One.
[38:04.200 -> 38:05.200] Yeah.
[38:05.200 -> 38:08.960] So that whole growth fund thing didn't happen by chance.
[38:08.960 -> 38:11.600] It wasn't just a, let's just do this to get credibility.
[38:11.600 -> 38:14.240] I knew at some point when that Formula One came up,
[38:14.240 -> 38:19.160] Jay would be in for it and we would be in pole position
[38:19.160 -> 38:21.440] to kind of go for it.
[38:21.440 -> 38:23.760] And that served us really well as we've gone through
[38:23.760 -> 38:30.880] as a business and as a team to think ahead and write what is the goal and how do we work back from it?
[38:30.880 -> 38:34.520] So every hire pretty much is a strategic hire.
[38:34.520 -> 38:36.640] It's not just plugging kind of roles.
[38:36.640 -> 38:37.640] It's right.
[38:37.640 -> 38:38.640] How are we going to get better?
[38:38.640 -> 38:40.320] What business could this lead to?
[38:40.320 -> 38:45.480] So tell us, I mean, that's a fascinating process that you're describing in quite
[38:48.520 -> 38:49.080] Matter of fact way of I think two steps ahead
[38:55.440 -> 38:58.520] Tell us like break that process down for us because I think it's it's invaluable. I think it's
[39:00.640 -> 39:05.840] It's almost like I'm not a comedian But I'd imagine comedians think quicker than everyone else because they're already trying to come back at you on something.
[39:05.840 -> 39:07.800] Apply that to a business sense, right?
[39:07.800 -> 39:10.720] So, best example I can think of is,
[39:12.360 -> 39:14.760] I sat down with my MD in my office,
[39:14.760 -> 39:17.880] and I said, we should be proud of what we've achieved.
[39:17.880 -> 39:22.040] We're doing all these sports, but we're not doing cricket.
[39:22.900 -> 39:26.120] I love cricket, you love cricket. Why are we not doing it?
[39:26.120 -> 39:28.000] Mark said, oh, well, I think we can do it.
[39:28.000 -> 39:29.040] And I was like, I know we can do it,
[39:29.040 -> 39:30.500] but no one's going to give it to us
[39:30.500 -> 39:33.440] because we haven't really produced on any scale.
[39:33.440 -> 39:36.520] And we decided that moment, let's
[39:36.520 -> 39:39.160] go and hire the best cricket producer in the world.
[39:39.160 -> 39:41.760] We had no cricket portfolio at that time.
[39:41.760 -> 39:44.520] So we took a punt, got Jake David, team on board,
[39:44.520 -> 39:48.440] to go and hire the guy who'd just done the cricket World Cup in 2019.
[39:49.040 -> 39:52.680] I knew if we got him and put a few more blocks around him that
[39:52.680 -> 39:54.240] we would be producing cricket.
[39:54.240 -> 39:56.560] We now produce all the cricket in New Zealand for spark.
[39:57.120 -> 40:00.120] Now produce all the cricket in West Indies and we now produce
[40:00.120 -> 40:00.960] cricket on the BBC.
[40:01.000 -> 40:03.480] So that, that was very strategic.
[40:05.200 -> 40:11.800] Cricket on the BBC. So that, that was very strategic. As a person with a very deep voice, I'm hired all the time for advertising
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[43:18.420 -> 43:23.280] So anyone listening to this, this is what I want to try and give them the
[43:23.280 -> 43:25.040] ability to tap into your way of
[43:25.040 -> 43:32.640] thinking. It starts with the ambition of this is what I want to have to be to do and then it goes
[43:32.640 -> 43:38.800] back to what's the first step I can take to make that happen. Yeah, yeah everything is a process,
[43:38.800 -> 43:46.280] it's you've got to kind of build the blocks to get to that end goal. And sometimes it feels so unobtainable.
[43:46.280 -> 43:50.320] Like for us, in 2015, when we got into the growth fund,
[43:50.320 -> 43:53.080] my view was I wanted to do the Paralympics because
[43:53.080 -> 43:55.240] of what it stood for.
[43:55.240 -> 43:58.720] So I think we were a company of 15 at the time, 16.
[43:58.720 -> 44:02.040] I flew over to Rio to just see what it was all about.
[44:02.040 -> 44:09.740] And I remember everyone looking at me going, why is he here? I was there four years ahead of Tokyo wanting to win Tokyo
[44:10.500 -> 44:16.820] Then I built a team and then we started doing kind of stuff around Paralympic movement disabled sport building a
[44:17.500 -> 44:19.500] credible disabled team
[44:20.040 -> 44:26.520] So it's just been really really strategic and calculated about how we go about stuff to me. It's just like a passion
[44:26.520 -> 44:30.200] I love thinking and you don't get every call right, but you've got to make the calls
[44:30.720 -> 44:36.240] So just tell us about that Paralympic the you said I love what it stands for. Well, what does it?
[44:36.440 -> 44:37.760] I
[44:37.760 -> 44:42.380] Think as I've matured as I've grown as we've grown as a business
[44:42.380 -> 44:46.280] I now talk about using our platform to impact positive change.
[44:46.280 -> 44:48.920] Now, the Paralympics and what it stands for
[44:48.920 -> 44:51.680] is kind of giving a platform to people
[44:51.680 -> 44:54.520] who over many years have been marginalized.
[44:54.520 -> 44:56.560] And kind of that comes back to my roots
[44:56.560 -> 44:58.480] of how I felt.
[44:58.480 -> 45:00.680] Now, the business that we've collectively built
[45:00.680 -> 45:03.840] and my team have built is super diverse
[45:03.840 -> 45:04.920] in so many different ways.
[45:04.920 -> 45:09.360] You walk into Whisper and it actually reflects the society we live in
[45:09.360 -> 45:15.860] So I always talk about I want our office to feel like your journey into work. Whereas more often than not
[45:16.840 -> 45:18.560] particularly in TV
[45:18.560 -> 45:19.720] historically
[45:19.720 -> 45:29.840] The people you see are not the people you see on the way into work. Yeah. And for me, it's partly what I felt growing up, not fitting in.
[45:29.840 -> 45:34.040] I want people to come in and feel like they belong and they see other people like
[45:34.040 -> 45:37.280] themselves and creating senior role models that they can aspire to.
[45:37.800 -> 45:42.360] So to me, that, that statement about creating a place of belonging for the
[45:42.360 -> 45:45.240] disaffected, the outsiders, is a really
[45:45.240 -> 45:52.520] powerful concept. But I want to go back to employee number three or employee
[45:52.520 -> 45:56.760] number four, so outside you Jake and David, how did you go about recruiting
[45:56.760 -> 46:01.680] that first member of staff of what is now 200 and what was it you were looking
[46:01.680 -> 46:07.740] for then? I remember it vividly, In fact, she's only just left Julie Porter. Remember?
[46:08.120 -> 46:12.800] We were eating studios in what was essentially a kind of corner kitchen
[46:13.560 -> 46:20.240] As our office and I was so embarrassed to interview someone in the office. I said, oh, we've got some work going on in the office
[46:20.840 -> 46:23.700] Let's meet at the Costa and we interviewed her at the Costa
[46:24.360 -> 46:27.120] And she actually had I think there was the show called the voice that was just's meet at the Costa. And we interviewed her at the Costa. And she actually had, I think there was the show
[46:27.120 -> 46:29.680] called The Voice that was just taking off at the time.
[46:29.680 -> 46:31.840] And she had an option to join us
[46:31.840 -> 46:33.600] or go to The Voice from Strictly.
[46:33.600 -> 46:36.680] So that's you identifying that she had the talent
[46:36.680 -> 46:39.120] that you needed, but what was it you were looking for
[46:39.120 -> 46:41.600] with Julia that would indicate to you
[46:41.600 -> 46:43.400] she was a whisper person?
[46:43.400 -> 46:47.040] I think it's that work ethic, being a team player,
[46:47.040 -> 46:51.280] someone prepared to go on the journey, that was it really, someone who believed in the vision.
[46:51.280 -> 46:58.320] Well I think we like the fact actually that the option for her was the biggest entertainment show
[46:58.320 -> 47:03.920] in the UK at the time or a production company with three people. If you're choosing the production
[47:03.920 -> 47:05.680] company with three people then you're our choosing the production company with three people,
[47:05.680 -> 47:07.480] then you're our kind of person.
[47:07.480 -> 47:09.120] And because it's a risk for her.
[47:09.120 -> 47:11.160] And we can only be a company that's successful
[47:11.160 -> 47:13.000] because we take risks.
[47:14.160 -> 47:18.680] And it's always a risk when you run a business like this.
[47:18.680 -> 47:20.040] And the risks don't end for us.
[47:20.040 -> 47:22.960] I mean, this created a really weird period
[47:22.960 -> 47:29.800] after Julia joined and the business started to grow and the channel four investment came, we started winning terrestrial work.
[47:29.800 -> 47:35.380] All kinds of odd rumours about Sunil started to circulate in the TV industry because we'd
[47:35.380 -> 47:39.840] come out of nowhere. And you've got to remember that in the, in the sports broadcasting landscape,
[47:39.840 -> 47:44.120] they've been basically three production companies forever. No one had broken in. People have
[47:44.120 -> 47:50.480] tried, no one had done it. And suddenly we had. Not only were they sceptical, they were obviously
[47:50.480 -> 47:54.120] kind of angry because suddenly this is their profit and their turnover that come into this
[47:54.120 -> 47:58.120] new business. So people started saying to me, oh yeah, what's going on at Whisper? I
[47:58.120 -> 48:01.280] hear Sonal gets in at four o'clock in the morning and goes on his treadmill for two
[48:01.280 -> 48:06.960] hours or I hear that all staff have to do 10 pull-ups as they come in the office to get them energized.
[48:06.960 -> 48:09.360] I was like, none of this is true.
[48:09.360 -> 48:10.320] None of this is true,
[48:10.320 -> 48:11.920] but you're assuming we're doing something
[48:11.920 -> 48:14.000] totally different to everybody else
[48:14.000 -> 48:16.880] because we're being the ones that are successful.
[48:16.880 -> 48:17.840] But I'll tell you what we did.
[48:18.480 -> 48:22.160] We created an absolute culture of inclusivity.
[48:22.160 -> 48:27.480] We created a culture where if you were part of Whisper, you were
[48:27.480 -> 48:33.000] able to speak to the CEO without an appointment, you were able to get involved in any element
[48:33.000 -> 48:40.480] of the production, you were made to feel like you belong and totally empowered. And also
[48:40.480 -> 48:48.960] really representative. It is, you know, Sunil says it kind of almost off the cuff really, but when you win the chance to produce the Paralympics, it is
[48:48.960 -> 48:54.560] disingenuous to fill the behind-the-scenes production with able-bodied
[48:54.560 -> 48:59.400] staff and put disabled presenters in front of the camera, because you're making
[48:59.400 -> 49:03.920] out that you're supporting disabled talent. You're only supporting the
[49:03.920 -> 49:07.240] disabled talent that looks good for your channel or for your business.
[49:07.240 -> 49:08.640] Whereas it was really important to us
[49:08.640 -> 49:12.640] that at least half the production were disabled.
[49:13.520 -> 49:15.960] We want half the people in the business to be women.
[49:15.960 -> 49:18.080] I'm so proud of the fact that the guy
[49:18.080 -> 49:22.240] that runs our business is a second generation immigrant,
[49:25.400 -> 49:27.200] because people like that don't run
[49:27.200 -> 49:28.920] production companies in the UK.
[49:28.920 -> 49:30.380] And I don't think it gets spoken enough
[49:30.380 -> 49:33.280] about quite what Sonnel has done.
[49:33.280 -> 49:35.260] But I also want people to understand the energy here
[49:35.260 -> 49:38.820] that comes from feeling like an outsider.
[49:38.820 -> 49:40.740] Because that's what the energy is behind Whisper,
[49:40.740 -> 49:42.580] it's feeling like outsiders.
[49:42.580 -> 49:44.400] But then, how do you get people to come with you
[49:44.400 -> 49:45.460] on the journey?
[49:45.460 -> 49:47.060] You make them feel like insiders.
[49:47.060 -> 49:49.640] You make them feel like they're part of something special.
[49:49.640 -> 49:53.340] And I think the only time where you can really be
[49:54.840 -> 49:58.240] properly assessed is when your backs are against the wall.
[49:58.240 -> 50:00.600] So we were predominantly a sports production company
[50:00.600 -> 50:03.100] until COVID hit.
[50:03.100 -> 50:06.760] And we had to pivot because when all of your income
[50:06.760 -> 50:08.600] pretty much comes from live sport,
[50:08.600 -> 50:12.580] and the entire world of live sport gets shut down,
[50:12.580 -> 50:14.920] you very quickly don't have a business.
[50:14.920 -> 50:17.620] So I remember working on a Thursday night
[50:17.620 -> 50:18.900] hosting Europa League football,
[50:18.900 -> 50:21.240] and this was one of the games behind closed doors,
[50:21.240 -> 50:23.840] when everything felt kind of strange.
[50:23.840 -> 50:27.880] We were live on air when we heard that COVID was around the Arsenal camp.
[50:27.880 -> 50:30.360] And then I got a text message from Frank Lampard to say they'd
[50:30.360 -> 50:31.680] shut the Chelsea training ground.
[50:32.460 -> 50:34.120] And the whole thing started to escalate fast.
[50:34.480 -> 50:36.600] And then over that weekend, the Premier League stopped.
[50:37.040 -> 50:40.200] Then global sport ended, including the Australian Grand Prix.
[50:40.200 -> 50:42.080] And we're producing Formula One at this point.
[50:43.000 -> 50:47.640] Now that was allied to the fact that on the Monday
[50:47.640 -> 50:51.440] when the staff came in, knowing what he knew about
[50:51.440 -> 50:54.160] just how precarious it was for our business,
[50:54.160 -> 50:58.520] Sonal announced to the staff that he was taking no salary.
[50:58.520 -> 50:59.760] I know you'll hate me telling this story
[50:59.760 -> 51:01.240] because you're too modest to hear it,
[51:01.240 -> 51:03.680] but he announced to the staff he would take no salary.
[51:03.680 -> 51:06.400] He was immediately on the phone to Sony,
[51:06.400 -> 51:10.080] who a few years ago took the Channel 4 investment
[51:10.080 -> 51:11.960] in Whisper and said to them,
[51:11.960 -> 51:13.480] you've got an amazing mental health program,
[51:13.480 -> 51:15.680] we need access for every member of staff immediately
[51:15.680 -> 51:17.760] because there's gonna be some stress and some concern
[51:17.760 -> 51:21.440] and myself and David Coulthard put aside a pot of cash
[51:21.440 -> 51:23.720] so that anyone could use that money
[51:23.720 -> 51:25.000] if their family were struggling
[51:25.000 -> 51:30.280] because of COVID. So I think when people outside Whisper look at our business and say, how
[51:30.280 -> 51:33.280] do you get your staff to really buy into what you're doing? How do you get them to come
[51:33.280 -> 51:39.000] on the journey? It's moments like that where our business was a few months away from disappearing,
[51:39.000 -> 51:43.960] yet the people at the centre of Sunil's thoughts and our thoughts were the staff in the business,
[51:43.960 -> 51:46.200] right? So all of that is deliberate.
[51:46.200 -> 51:47.800] That's not an accident.
[51:47.800 -> 51:51.760] You've constructed that from employee number one coming in
[51:51.760 -> 51:56.100] to employee 200 and you're now facing this crisis.
[51:57.120 -> 52:01.880] How much time do you invest in developing the culture
[52:01.880 -> 52:09.440] and tell us some of the processes that you go through? I think culture is my number one job on a day-to-day basis and I think it's
[52:09.440 -> 52:13.440] changed where I used to be doing everything and I hear kind of listen to
[52:13.440 -> 52:16.680] the podcast and everyone talks about at the start of a business and a startup
[52:16.680 -> 52:20.400] you're doing everything and then kind of go through a period where you focus on
[52:20.400 -> 52:23.920] kind of the key levers that are gonna really make you distinctive and it was
[52:23.920 -> 52:26.560] the output was really important.
[52:26.760 -> 52:28.160] The hiring was really important.
[52:28.360 -> 52:33.040] And then as I matured, I realized how important the team around me were and how
[52:33.240 -> 52:37.200] you kind of not financially incentivize them, but how you made them feel on a day
[52:37.400 -> 52:42.920] to day basis. And as I got more confident, I just wanted to create an environment
[52:43.120 -> 52:45.060] where people just felt didn't feel like work
[52:45.060 -> 52:49.440] I have this feeling that most people spend more time at work than they do at home
[52:49.440 -> 52:53.640] Yeah, so let's create an environment where they want to come in rather than have to I'm still fortunate
[52:54.440 -> 53:00.000] That I wake up and I want to go into work and the moment that stops then that's probably my time to call it a
[53:00.000 -> 53:03.480] Day at whisper, but it's all about kind of making people feel
[53:04.040 -> 53:06.640] It doesn't cost us much money to have fruit for
[53:06.640 -> 53:10.480] everyone, or beers on a Friday. And that's the easy stuff. But
[53:11.000 -> 53:15.080] I think we're very open with comms. I have a rule that when
[53:15.080 -> 53:18.920] we announce something, put it out on the WhatsApp group, put
[53:18.920 -> 53:23.400] it out in a newsletter. We have a team meeting every Wednesday
[53:23.400 -> 53:25.200] at 1130, come what may. We're open, we have a team meeting every Wednesday at 1130 come what may. Yeah.
[53:25.560 -> 53:26.280] We're open.
[53:26.280 -> 53:30.160] We share as much as possible and it comes right from me down to
[53:30.160 -> 53:30.640] the team.
[53:31.120 -> 53:37.240] Um, so that, that sense of it being a very open company, you
[53:37.240 -> 53:39.120] know, what's going on, you know what the challenges are, you
[53:39.120 -> 53:40.040] know, what the success is.
[53:40.480 -> 53:43.880] We also sort of share that success as well in, in a sense
[53:43.880 -> 53:47.000] that if we win a contract, it's not down to one or two people.
[53:47.000 -> 53:58.000] I always talk about how often some of the departments in a business such as HR, legal, facilities, operations are often left behind when the success comes.
[53:58.000 -> 54:08.780] But if the office isn't tidy, if people aren't getting paid, the contracts aren't being drawn up, it doesn't matter how good your new business team is or your delivery team is, everything falls apart. So I make
[54:08.780 -> 54:14.100] a big point of it's, it's about everyone. It's about every little detail coming together
[54:14.100 -> 54:18.920] that makes that success. By the way, I just want to put it on record. We're not perfect.
[54:18.920 -> 54:24.520] We make so many mistakes, but what I will do is take a chance on let's try this. Let's
[54:24.520 -> 54:25.000] try that.
[54:25.000 -> 54:27.000] It's like any entrepreneur,
[54:27.000 -> 54:29.000] lots of people forget the mistakes you make,
[54:29.000 -> 54:32.000] but I think we try and learn from them, and that's key.
[54:32.000 -> 54:35.000] So, having seen the playbook that you have,
[54:35.000 -> 54:38.000] where you've got the company values really clearly explicit,
[54:38.000 -> 54:44.000] the decision-making process of whether you will go and try and pitch a new contract,
[54:44.000 -> 54:45.840] is it very clear
[54:45.840 -> 54:50.760] for an outsider like me to read and understand it. Tell me about the process
[54:50.760 -> 54:56.680] of how you came to those values and how you ensure that they're being lived.
[54:56.680 -> 55:00.240] We did it through a rebrand so if you look at our we've had three logos in our time
[55:00.240 -> 55:04.480] and I think kind of the first one was just very temporary, the second one I had
[55:04.480 -> 55:05.880] it done almost it could almost, it could have
[55:05.880 -> 55:10.200] been, it could have been a legal firm, accounting firm, kind of
[55:10.200 -> 55:14.480] any professional company. And that was to do with fitting in,
[55:14.600 -> 55:17.560] we wanted to be accepted. So we didn't want a brash logo, we
[55:17.560 -> 55:21.240] wanted something that just very non assuming. Yeah. And then it
[55:21.240 -> 55:23.440] got to a point where I just started to believe in myself
[55:23.440 -> 55:25.320] started believing the business and believe in the team around me. And I was like, I was like, fuck a point where I just started to believe in myself started believe in the business and believe in
[55:25.320 -> 55:27.200] The team around me and I was like
[55:27.200 -> 55:30.520] It's like fuck it. Let's just be who we are. Let's just be proud of it
[55:30.520 -> 55:35.860] Let's have something a bit bolder a little bit more ambitious a little bit more creative a little bit more diverse
[55:36.680 -> 55:39.840] Little bit more honest and that's where our values came from
[55:39.840 -> 55:48.280] It's like let's let's be who we are and let's not be afraid of that. And I think for too long, I'd been afraid of standing out.
[55:49.040 -> 55:50.760] So tell us what those values are then.
[55:50.800 -> 55:56.760] Be ambitious, be bold, be creative, be diverse, be honest, be relentless.
[55:57.600 -> 55:58.760] The relentless one I love.
[55:59.440 -> 56:02.040] That's directly out of, that's basically the true, Stannell's truth.
[56:02.040 -> 56:04.120] The rest of them he's put in there to make himself feel better.
[56:05.680 -> 56:08.080] And I think there is another really important conversation
[56:08.080 -> 56:11.520] here to have, which is the phrase, make shit happen.
[56:11.520 -> 56:13.200] When we first started Whisper,
[56:13.200 -> 56:16.720] we just felt like speed of action from other people
[56:16.720 -> 56:19.800] and size of thought from other people
[56:19.800 -> 56:21.800] and level of ambition from other people
[56:21.800 -> 56:23.840] is just not good enough.
[56:23.840 -> 56:27.000] Think bigger, make it happen fast.
[56:27.000 -> 56:28.720] Just believe amazing things can happen.
[56:28.720 -> 56:30.480] And we coined it, just make shit happen.
[56:30.480 -> 56:32.100] Just make shit happen.
[56:32.100 -> 56:33.060] Whether it's hiring more people,
[56:33.060 -> 56:34.960] make shit happen, doesn't matter.
[56:34.960 -> 56:37.180] Obviously, when you become bigger and you get more staff,
[56:37.180 -> 56:38.360] someone comes and says,
[56:38.360 -> 56:40.560] maybe you could call it make it happen,
[56:40.560 -> 56:42.360] rather than make shit happen.
[56:42.360 -> 56:46.140] So, it has changed from make shit happen to make it happen.
[56:46.140 -> 56:49.420] But I think what I love is that on the wall
[56:49.420 -> 56:52.780] in Sonal's office, I walked in there the other day,
[56:52.780 -> 56:55.500] and I love the fact that the phrase make it happen
[56:55.500 -> 56:57.600] is in his office, right alongside a couple
[56:57.600 -> 57:01.660] of Charlie McAsee prints, which are all about kindness
[57:01.660 -> 57:06.200] and empathy and understanding and love.
[57:09.460 -> 57:11.500] And I think that if we were just the kids that set this company up,
[57:11.500 -> 57:14.160] and we were saying to people, just make shit happen,
[57:14.160 -> 57:15.540] people would not like us,
[57:15.540 -> 57:16.700] and they wouldn't want to work for us,
[57:16.700 -> 57:19.140] and we wouldn't be growing.
[57:19.140 -> 57:20.260] I think when you are a business
[57:20.260 -> 57:22.060] that still wants to make it happen,
[57:22.060 -> 57:25.240] but you align it to the empathy and the love
[57:25.240 -> 57:27.480] and the understanding and getting to know
[57:27.480 -> 57:30.800] every single person at Whisper as individuals.
[57:30.800 -> 57:33.000] I think when other people outside our business
[57:33.000 -> 57:36.400] look in wondering how we've grown in the pandemic,
[57:36.400 -> 57:38.960] for example, you know, we'd more than doubled
[57:38.960 -> 57:41.000] the size of our business in that period.
[57:41.000 -> 57:42.320] How?
[57:42.320 -> 57:43.840] Because we looked after people.
[57:43.840 -> 57:46.260] And I think that that is a superpower
[57:46.260 -> 57:50.100] that Sonal perhaps doesn't realize that he has.
[57:51.240 -> 57:53.060] But I think a whole heady mix,
[57:53.060 -> 57:55.620] and maybe you want to talk about that for a second,
[57:55.620 -> 57:56.600] the things that you've been through
[57:56.600 -> 57:58.400] over the last couple of years
[57:58.400 -> 58:01.360] have probably put love and empathy much more central
[58:01.360 -> 58:03.680] to the way you run the business and run your life, I think.
[58:03.680 -> 58:04.520] Yeah, I think that's it.
[58:04.520 -> 58:09.040] It's a really good learning of, I think when you're in startup mode and
[58:09.040 -> 58:12.280] you've got the opportunity and I talk about having this ball and I don't want to let it
[58:12.280 -> 58:16.960] go because I'm so fortunate to hold the ball, back to a rugby analogy, whilst I'm in possession
[58:16.960 -> 58:22.200] I'm not letting go, I'm in possession of whisper and no one's going to get it, I've got to
[58:22.200 -> 58:29.400] retain it. I've got to retain it. But when you're in that startup mode, and you're taking a chance, I remember I, I wake
[58:29.400 -> 58:33.360] up, I think about whisper. And the last thought I have is about
[58:33.360 -> 58:37.600] whisper. And that happened for years and years and years. And
[58:37.600 -> 58:41.040] it was just non stop. And that came with compromises in my
[58:41.040 -> 58:45.400] personal life. I gave too much to the business.
[58:45.400 -> 58:48.360] I'd miss out on key milestones, not birthdays of my kids
[58:48.360 -> 58:52.440] or my wife, but you'd miss bedtime.
[58:52.440 -> 58:54.880] You'd miss the birthday party for a friend.
[58:54.880 -> 58:57.800] You'd miss going on holiday with your mates or whatever it was.
[58:57.800 -> 58:59.720] And they were the compromises I made.
[58:59.720 -> 59:01.560] I made so many of those.
[59:01.560 -> 59:03.440] And I think when you're getting going,
[59:03.440 -> 59:05.040] and you've just got to be prepared
[59:05.040 -> 59:08.320] to make those compromises and be comfortable with that.
[59:08.320 -> 59:10.600] And if you can get to a position where you know you're
[59:10.600 -> 59:12.720] going to miss those moments in your life,
[59:12.720 -> 59:14.840] but you've got a chance of building something, which
[59:14.840 -> 59:16.480] is the dream, then that's fine.
[59:16.480 -> 59:19.240] And making those compromises isn't for everyone.
[59:19.240 -> 59:21.560] There'll be people listening to this will go,
[59:21.560 -> 59:24.680] actually, I'm not prepared to compromise on missing bath time.
[59:24.680 -> 59:27.140] Or I'm not prepared to compromise on missing bath time, or I'm not prepared to compromise on going
[59:27.140 -> 59:30.840] on holiday, or going on holiday and not being on the phone all
[59:30.840 -> 59:35.640] holiday, which it used to be. And then I think through,
[59:36.040 -> 59:38.080] particularly through the pandemic, quite a few things
[59:38.080 -> 59:43.000] happened. COVID was incredibly tough on me from running a team
[59:43.000 -> 59:45.040] perspective. I'm all about people day-to-day
[59:45.040 -> 59:48.580] I missed that buzz of seeing my team and yeah
[59:48.900 -> 59:54.440] Every phone call every team's call I had I could just see the anguish on people's faces trying to homeschool
[59:54.500 -> 59:56.460] Be a parent be a teacher
[59:56.460 -> 59:59.580] Build a business all of that sort of stuff and I felt that pains
[59:59.580 -> 01:00:04.660] I couldn't really do anything about it working on the other end of a computer and then the George Floyd
[01:00:06.560 -> 01:00:07.200] murder happened.
[01:00:11.760 -> 01:00:15.520] And then you had the Caroline Flack suicide and it just kind of hit me really hard. And I just felt Christ, this, I think kind of,
[01:00:16.360 -> 01:00:21.360] I learned how to be more empathetic and see things through other people's eyes.
[01:00:21.800 -> 01:00:27.080] I was so belligerent in my kind of journey of I want to do this with whisper
[01:00:27.080 -> 01:00:31.040] Yeah, that actually that's more important things to play and actually
[01:00:31.760 -> 01:00:36.540] Kind of a straight off back of that someone someone bought me the Charlie McAsee book and I read it and I was like
[01:00:36.540 -> 01:00:40.360] Oh my god, this is a game changer for me. This is a fox and yeah
[01:00:41.400 -> 01:00:44.240] Yeah, and it was so simple. I'm not a big reader
[01:00:44.240 -> 01:00:45.640] I like I like the idea of learning but so simple. I'm not a big reader.
[01:00:45.640 -> 01:00:47.840] I like the idea of learning, but I can't.
[01:00:47.840 -> 01:00:50.880] I'm very slow, so I get frustrated.
[01:00:50.880 -> 01:00:53.000] But that book was just very easy to digest.
[01:00:53.000 -> 01:00:55.540] But the messaging behind it about the empathy,
[01:00:55.540 -> 01:00:58.200] and the kindness, and compassion,
[01:00:58.200 -> 01:01:01.280] and knowing yourself, it really did help change my life.
[01:01:01.280 -> 01:01:03.880] And I then sort of started to meditate.
[01:01:03.880 -> 01:01:05.160] And it sounds bonkers.
[01:01:05.160 -> 01:01:06.440] Well, how's that going to help you?
[01:01:06.440 -> 01:01:10.640] But it has, it's just made me pause, made me more considerate,
[01:01:10.640 -> 01:01:14.760] maybe value things that I once didn't value.
[01:01:14.760 -> 01:01:18.160] And all of that coming together has just, in a way,
[01:01:18.160 -> 01:01:21.440] kind of made me work less, be more efficient,
[01:01:21.440 -> 01:01:24.680] be a better person, and still have my faults.
[01:01:24.680 -> 01:01:27.120] So tell us then about the caroline flack
[01:01:28.000 -> 01:01:35.040] I mean that was a surprising admission or the the george floyd one. What was it about their deaths that
[01:01:35.680 -> 01:01:38.880] Triggered something in you. I think caroline flack was interesting
[01:01:38.960 -> 01:01:42.640] It was the the whole kind of be kind and try and see
[01:01:43.200 -> 01:01:47.340] Things through other people's eyes like no one knew truly what she was going through
[01:01:47.340 -> 01:01:50.180] but yeah, everyone had an opinion on how she was carrying her life and
[01:01:50.820 -> 01:01:54.320] I think it just triggered a kind of sense of be kind and
[01:01:54.940 -> 01:01:58.240] See life through other people's eyes that really changed me
[01:01:58.240 -> 01:02:04.020] So when you're in the heat at the moment and not happy with something or happy with someone and often I'd get frustrated
[01:02:04.020 -> 01:02:08.060] It's like I actually kind of just step back and try and see it through someone else's perspective
[01:02:09.160 -> 01:02:14.980] And the George Floyd moment was really interesting for us. I think it's arguably one of the
[01:02:15.760 -> 01:02:21.320] Proudest moments I've had at whisper where again? It was a time where all of our revenue had fallen off a cliff
[01:02:21.320 -> 01:02:25.960] We had no money. We had a huge outgo and overheads, no work to do, really.
[01:02:25.960 -> 01:02:29.240] But we saw the death of George Floyd
[01:02:29.240 -> 01:02:32.080] and the impact it had on society and a certain part of society
[01:02:32.080 -> 01:02:34.920] which had been marginalized for a long period of time
[01:02:34.920 -> 01:02:36.760] and still continues to be.
[01:02:36.760 -> 01:02:39.320] And Channel 4 was struggling with ad revenue,
[01:02:39.320 -> 01:02:40.880] not being able to commission anything.
[01:02:40.880 -> 01:02:43.160] And I contacted Channel 4.
[01:02:43.160 -> 01:02:44.960] And one of the commissioners at Fatima,
[01:02:44.960 -> 01:02:46.440] who was the commissioner at channel four, who was
[01:02:46.440 -> 01:02:47.200] looking for content.
[01:02:47.200 -> 01:02:50.600] I said, look, I don't have a creative for you, but we as a
[01:02:50.600 -> 01:02:53.280] production company are so passionate about trying to tell
[01:02:53.280 -> 01:02:56.120] some stories around the race issues at the moment that we
[01:02:56.120 -> 01:02:57.640] will fund something ourselves.
[01:02:57.880 -> 01:02:59.320] And she was like, you mad.
[01:02:59.560 -> 01:03:00.400] I was like, no, no, no.
[01:03:01.120 -> 01:03:04.000] I want us to impact positive change.
[01:03:04.400 -> 01:03:07.440] And I'll go to my founders, Jake, David.
[01:03:07.440 -> 01:03:09.120] I'll go to my board, Sony, and I'll
[01:03:09.120 -> 01:03:12.400] fight for us to invest tens of thousands of pounds.
[01:03:12.400 -> 01:03:15.720] It wasn't small change to produce a program that
[01:03:15.720 -> 01:03:19.760] comes on air and talks about the challenges
[01:03:19.760 -> 01:03:20.960] that black people have.
[01:03:20.960 -> 01:03:23.920] And we co-funded this program called The Talk.
[01:03:23.920 -> 01:03:25.840] Cardiff Productions came up with the creative.
[01:03:25.840 -> 01:03:28.600] We funded it and produced it.
[01:03:28.600 -> 01:03:31.600] And I felt so passionate that even though we
[01:03:31.600 -> 01:03:34.880] had no money coming in, that by doing that,
[01:03:34.880 -> 01:03:36.600] it was going to change someone's life.
[01:03:36.600 -> 01:03:38.400] Or it was going to help educate people that
[01:03:38.400 -> 01:03:41.080] didn't understand the challenges black people face.
[01:03:41.080 -> 01:03:42.840] And off the back of that, yes, it
[01:03:42.840 -> 01:03:45.520] got nominated and commended with awards and all that sort
[01:03:45.520 -> 01:03:46.000] of stuff.
[01:03:46.000 -> 01:03:49.360] But the biggest accolade we've taken away
[01:03:49.360 -> 01:03:55.360] is Sainsbury's now used that to show every new member of staff
[01:03:55.360 -> 01:03:59.000] in terms of their inclusivity, diversity program.
[01:03:59.000 -> 01:04:01.520] And that's how it impacted me.
[01:04:01.520 -> 01:04:03.520] And that's how it's stuck with me.
[01:04:03.520 -> 01:04:05.840] So all of those combinations, those things coming together,
[01:04:05.840 -> 01:04:08.920] having two years away out of the office, not been able to
[01:04:09.840 -> 01:04:12.840] integrate with your team, having to lead a business, deliver
[01:04:12.840 -> 01:04:17.560] numbers, deliver growth, keep a culture, keep your baby alive,
[01:04:17.600 -> 01:04:21.120] which was the business. Yeah, pretty tough two years, but I've
[01:04:21.120 -> 01:04:28.000] had good people around me and it's about learning and not ever thinking you're the finished article you can always learn more
[01:04:28.880 -> 01:04:30.880] And I'm not
[01:04:30.960 -> 01:04:36.440] I've said right beginning. I'm not very academically gifted, but I like the sense of learning
[01:04:36.440 -> 01:04:39.040] I like the idea of learning. I love this podcast
[01:04:39.040 -> 01:04:44.680] I used to read a lot of business books until my coach said you stop reading these self-help books
[01:04:46.200 -> 01:04:47.920] And believe in yourself a bit more.
[01:04:47.920 -> 01:04:49.400] So you have a coach?
[01:04:49.400 -> 01:04:50.760] Yeah, I'm open about it.
[01:04:50.760 -> 01:04:53.440] I think a lot of people see that as a weakness
[01:04:53.440 -> 01:04:56.020] or go, why do you need a coach?
[01:04:57.100 -> 01:04:58.260] I want to get better
[01:04:58.260 -> 01:05:00.360] and I want someone to be honest with me.
[01:05:00.360 -> 01:05:03.440] And what was the catalyst for that?
[01:05:03.440 -> 01:05:05.040] I had very honest feedback from my board.
[01:05:05.040 -> 01:05:08.080] I asked my board, how can I get better?
[01:05:08.080 -> 01:05:11.400] And a lot of the feedback was, you're
[01:05:11.400 -> 01:05:13.620] quite relentless in your thought process,
[01:05:13.620 -> 01:05:16.320] and I think you could open your horizons a little bit more.
[01:05:16.320 -> 01:05:20.520] And I just thought, OK, fine, let's deal with it.
[01:05:20.520 -> 01:05:23.160] Don't think you're the finished article.
[01:05:23.160 -> 01:05:28.000] And from that moment on, I've just been on this quest to learn, get better,
[01:05:28.000 -> 01:05:32.240] improve myself and comes back to what DC ingrained in myself
[01:05:32.240 -> 01:05:34.460] and Jake about marginal gains.
[01:05:34.460 -> 01:05:38.960] If I can get 0.5% better today, then that's a win.
[01:05:38.960 -> 01:05:41.600] And that's the way that we've built Whisper
[01:05:41.600 -> 01:05:43.240] with this belief of marginal gains,
[01:05:43.240 -> 01:05:45.640] this belief that every single part of the business
[01:05:45.640 -> 01:05:46.480] can be improved.
[01:05:46.480 -> 01:05:48.400] If we break Whisper down to a thousand pieces
[01:05:48.400 -> 01:05:51.240] and improve each of those thousand pieces
[01:05:51.240 -> 01:05:52.160] by the smallest amount,
[01:05:52.160 -> 01:05:54.500] when we bring the whole business back together,
[01:05:54.500 -> 01:05:56.780] we'll have a successful one.
[01:05:56.780 -> 01:05:58.600] And it's been such a pleasure to sit
[01:05:58.600 -> 01:05:59.660] and have this conversation,
[01:05:59.660 -> 01:06:03.400] because when you set up a startup with a friend
[01:06:03.400 -> 01:06:06.000] and you go on this journey, which is a decade long,
[01:06:06.000 -> 01:06:08.520] you don't really have these conversations along the way
[01:06:08.520 -> 01:06:10.800] because you're either fighting to build the business,
[01:06:10.800 -> 01:06:13.160] in our case, you're then fighting to save the business,
[01:06:13.160 -> 01:06:16.060] and now you're fighting to grow the business.
[01:06:16.060 -> 01:06:18.840] You never stop and actually reflect
[01:06:18.840 -> 01:06:20.680] on what the journey has been like.
[01:06:20.680 -> 01:06:22.240] How have you found that?
[01:06:22.240 -> 01:06:25.080] Yeah, it's just very therapeutic, isn't it?
[01:06:25.080 -> 01:06:26.360] You don't step back.
[01:06:26.360 -> 01:06:28.360] I always used to say to Julie particularly,
[01:06:28.360 -> 01:06:30.680] like, just sometimes step back and look
[01:06:30.680 -> 01:06:32.280] at what you've achieved.
[01:06:32.280 -> 01:06:34.760] We're not a charity, but the impact
[01:06:34.760 -> 01:06:37.560] we've had on people coming into the industry,
[01:06:37.560 -> 01:06:40.560] whether it's people from an ethnically diverse background
[01:06:40.560 -> 01:06:43.320] or disabled or more women coming into sport,
[01:06:43.320 -> 01:06:46.000] that's the sort of wins that get me quite high.
[01:06:46.000 -> 01:06:49.000] And I think the one that I've taken real power from is,
[01:06:49.000 -> 01:06:55.000] I like where we started this conversation that you're the outsider,
[01:06:55.000 -> 01:06:58.000] speaking for the marginalised or the disaffected
[01:06:58.000 -> 01:07:02.000] or the people that are outside themselves.
[01:07:02.000 -> 01:07:05.000] And yet, as you grow exponentially,
[01:07:05.000 -> 01:07:07.480] as you're becoming increasingly successful,
[01:07:07.480 -> 01:07:11.040] how do you avoid becoming part of the establishment?
[01:07:11.040 -> 01:07:12.040] I think it's tough.
[01:07:12.040 -> 01:07:14.920] Success is driven by growth and numbers,
[01:07:14.920 -> 01:07:16.200] and people will say, well, hang on,
[01:07:16.200 -> 01:07:17.260] you're now the establishment,
[01:07:17.260 -> 01:07:21.460] but actually we continually have events
[01:07:21.460 -> 01:07:23.320] within the business to get more people
[01:07:23.320 -> 01:07:27.120] from parts of society that struggle to get into TV. So we're kind of
[01:07:27.120 -> 01:07:29.880] constantly tapping into and trying to bring people with us
[01:07:29.880 -> 01:07:32.640] on that journey. We've just done a partnership with Brentford.
[01:07:32.640 -> 01:07:35.440] I'm a Brentford fan and I basically called up the CEO and
[01:07:35.440 -> 01:07:39.000] said, look, we want to, A, I'm a Brentford fan so just put it on
[01:07:39.000 -> 01:07:43.760] the table. B, I think you can get access to parts of society
[01:07:43.760 -> 01:07:46.620] that we can't through your network with the Brentford Trust
[01:07:46.800 -> 01:07:52.120] Your links into kind of local schools communities. I think we can kind of do something
[01:07:52.120 -> 01:07:57.560] why don't we do a placement two internships one six months at Brentford one six months at whisper and
[01:07:58.520 -> 01:08:04.800] See how it goes and it's those sorts of things that if you continue to kind of really push not just deliver
[01:08:04.880 -> 01:08:05.360] There's an expectation when you walk through the door at whisper It's those sorts of things that if you continue to kind of really push, not just deliver,
[01:08:05.360 -> 01:08:08.360] there's an expectation when you walk through the door at Whisper, you should be able to
[01:08:08.360 -> 01:08:10.880] do your job and you should be exceptional.
[01:08:10.880 -> 01:08:13.720] If you've got the heart right, you should be exceptional at what you do.
[01:08:13.720 -> 01:08:17.800] And pretty much everyone, 200 plus are exceptional at what they do.
[01:08:17.800 -> 01:08:20.440] Next expectation is, can you be a nice person?
[01:08:20.440 -> 01:08:23.360] All of that kind of comes back to what we're talking about.
[01:08:23.360 -> 01:08:25.600] We always finish with our quick fires.
[01:08:25.600 -> 01:08:27.240] I'm interested to hear what you've got for these.
[01:08:27.240 -> 01:08:29.480] What are your three non-negotiables?
[01:08:29.480 -> 01:08:34.480] Work hard, be a nice person, and pay attention to detail.
[01:08:35.320 -> 01:08:36.800] Which leads us onto this question,
[01:08:36.800 -> 01:08:38.760] how important is legacy to you?
[01:08:38.760 -> 01:08:42.240] Hugely, I talk about, do I want to be remembered
[01:08:42.240 -> 01:08:45.000] for great coverage or great content? No, I want to be remembered for great coverage or great content?
[01:08:45.000 -> 01:08:46.520] No, I want to be remembered.
[01:08:46.520 -> 01:08:48.760] I want us to be remembered collectively as a team,
[01:08:48.760 -> 01:08:51.680] as a business that redefined the sorts of people
[01:08:51.680 -> 01:08:53.200] that come into the industry,
[01:08:53.200 -> 01:08:56.680] the way that we've kind of reshaped more creative roles
[01:08:56.680 -> 01:08:57.840] being filled by women,
[01:08:57.840 -> 01:08:59.840] more disabled talent coming into the business,
[01:08:59.840 -> 01:09:02.540] more ethnically diverse, more representative.
[01:09:02.540 -> 01:09:05.280] That's what I want will be remembered for.
[01:09:05.280 -> 01:09:08.520] What's your greatest strength as a high performer
[01:09:08.520 -> 01:09:10.720] and what would you say is your greatest weakness?
[01:09:10.720 -> 01:09:13.480] Greatest strength would be my drive
[01:09:13.480 -> 01:09:16.240] and my greatest weakness is my drive.
[01:09:16.240 -> 01:09:19.200] It's very hard to be around someone who's constantly on
[01:09:19.200 -> 01:09:21.040] and I am constantly on.
[01:09:21.040 -> 01:09:22.800] And finally, for the people that have listened
[01:09:22.800 -> 01:09:28.360] to this conversation, how would you describe what high performance means to you? Well, I knew you'd ask me
[01:09:28.360 -> 01:09:32.480] that, so I googled it and turns out it's a bloody good podcast and it's a it's
[01:09:32.480 -> 01:09:41.160] not a bad book either. I don't know, I guess I'm highly driven, highly motivated,
[01:09:41.160 -> 01:09:45.260] highly ambitious and highly strong.
[01:09:49.020 -> 01:09:51.020] I don't see myself as highly, high performance as such, but I just have kind of certain attributes
[01:09:51.020 -> 01:09:52.480] that kind of, when they come together,
[01:09:52.480 -> 01:09:55.260] it means you can excel at what you're doing.
[01:09:55.260 -> 01:09:56.660] Brilliant, I've loved that, mate.
[01:09:56.660 -> 01:09:58.660] Thank you so much for taking the time, Sunil.
[01:09:58.660 -> 01:10:00.500] Thanks for having me.
[01:10:02.380 -> 01:10:03.220] Damien.
[01:10:03.220 -> 01:10:04.040] Jake.
[01:10:04.040 -> 01:10:07.080] Well, that was an interesting one for me. I know it was wasn't it? Yeah.
[01:10:07.080 -> 01:10:10.000] I wasn't sure whether I was hosting it or being interviewed, I wasn't sure what was
[01:10:10.000 -> 01:10:13.420] going on, but I think one of the standouts for me, right, and I really want people to
[01:10:13.420 -> 01:10:20.120] understand this, is that the success and the growth of Whisper hasn't been like a, hasn't
[01:10:20.120 -> 01:10:26.080] been a really clear plan. The ambition has always been there, and the desire, and the hard work, and the commitment,
[01:10:26.080 -> 01:10:30.080] and that belief that great things are gonna happen,
[01:10:30.080 -> 01:10:31.560] and trying to be better than everyone else,
[01:10:31.560 -> 01:10:32.760] and trying to be different to everyone else
[01:10:32.760 -> 01:10:34.120] has always been there.
[01:10:34.120 -> 01:10:35.720] But it hasn't ever been like,
[01:10:35.720 -> 01:10:38.120] we win this, and then hire this, and then win this,
[01:10:38.120 -> 01:10:42.040] because I think life's too much of a lottery for that,
[01:10:42.040 -> 01:10:44.480] and I don't want people to think they can over-plan
[01:10:44.480 -> 01:10:46.360] the direction that things go,
[01:10:46.360 -> 01:10:47.720] because then they're over critical of themselves
[01:10:47.720 -> 01:10:48.880] when it doesn't happen, you know?
[01:10:48.880 -> 01:10:50.000] Yeah, I loved it.
[01:10:50.000 -> 01:10:50.840] I loved it.
[01:10:50.840 -> 01:10:53.480] And I liked the fact that you were there with it.
[01:10:53.480 -> 01:10:55.440] And it felt like we were interviewing you as well.
[01:10:55.440 -> 01:10:58.560] Cause I think people will find it fascinating,
[01:10:58.560 -> 01:10:59.400] the story of it,
[01:10:59.400 -> 01:11:04.200] that I almost saw it a bit like an accidental leadership role
[01:11:04.200 -> 01:11:05.480] that Sunil's found himself in,
[01:11:05.480 -> 01:11:08.240] that that's not intended to be rude about him,
[01:11:08.240 -> 01:11:10.560] but I think you and him have been brilliant
[01:11:10.560 -> 01:11:13.600] at spotting opportunities just when they occur,
[01:11:13.600 -> 01:11:15.000] rather than, like you say,
[01:11:15.000 -> 01:11:17.920] having this linear strategic plan
[01:11:17.920 -> 01:11:19.280] of where you were going to go.
[01:11:19.280 -> 01:11:21.240] And I think there's something really powerful
[01:11:21.240 -> 01:11:23.640] about being open to opportunities
[01:11:23.640 -> 01:11:24.960] and then taking them when they come,
[01:11:24.960 -> 01:11:25.260] rather than sometimes going out there to create those opportunities. really powerful about being open to opportunities and then taking them when they come rather
[01:11:25.260 -> 01:11:28.700] than sometimes going out there to create those opportunities.
[01:11:28.700 -> 01:11:35.180] And I'm also a really sort of big advocate of like quiet leadership or reluctant leadership.
[01:11:35.180 -> 01:11:38.820] And I would say Sanne is a reluctant leader. You know, I'm always saying to him that the
[01:11:38.820 -> 01:11:43.380] TV industry doesn't celebrate him enough. You know, he is an Asian son of a shop owner
[01:11:43.380 -> 01:11:45.360] from Twickenham who had no contacts
[01:11:45.360 -> 01:11:50.160] and no friends in the TV industry, started off at the bottom and worked his way up.
[01:11:51.360 -> 01:11:54.960] And he's like, oh no, I don't really want people to talk about me. You know, he never wants to be
[01:11:54.960 -> 01:11:58.800] the centre of attention. He always credits the team with everything that he does. He's brilliant
[01:11:58.800 -> 01:12:03.760] at getting great people around him. If we get a win, he never says, look what I've won. It's always
[01:12:03.760 -> 01:12:07.640] what the team have won. However, if we lose, he's the first one to put his hand in the air and
[01:12:07.640 -> 01:12:10.760] say that he's the one that's made the mistake. And I think that he's the leader
[01:12:10.760 -> 01:12:16.240] of Whisper through default, through his actions, through the things that he does
[01:12:16.240 -> 01:12:21.600] rather than deciding he's going to be a leader. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember the
[01:12:21.600 -> 01:12:26.800] first time I, that I met him when you'd introduced me and the story that stood out
[01:12:26.800 -> 01:12:31.700] for me is that when he took that pay cut completely
[01:12:31.700 -> 01:12:33.520] during COVID to save the business,
[01:12:33.520 -> 01:12:35.880] he wasn't asking anyone else to take a call,
[01:12:35.880 -> 01:12:39.720] but that he wasn't prepared to take in greater measure.
[01:12:39.720 -> 01:12:43.280] And I just think we're hardwired as humans
[01:12:43.280 -> 01:12:44.720] that we don't follow hypocrites.
[01:12:44.720 -> 01:12:46.720] We don't want people that talk a good humans that we don't follow hypocrites. We don't warm to people that talk a good game
[01:12:46.720 -> 01:12:47.860] and then don't back it up.
[01:12:47.860 -> 01:12:49.720] And from the very first occasion,
[01:12:49.720 -> 01:12:51.760] meeting somebody that was prepared to
[01:12:51.760 -> 01:12:53.840] not only put his money where his mouth was,
[01:12:53.840 -> 01:12:57.180] but take the pain that came from it
[01:12:57.180 -> 01:12:59.400] and before we asked anybody else to do it,
[01:12:59.400 -> 01:13:00.580] just made me warm to him.
[01:13:00.580 -> 01:13:03.020] And I can see how, as a leader,
[01:13:03.020 -> 01:13:05.600] if that's the vibe that he's giving off to me meeting him
[01:13:05.600 -> 01:13:10.000] working for him would be even more inspiring. Well thanks for the uh thanks for the effort it was
[01:13:10.000 -> 01:13:13.840] nice for me to reminisce about the 10-year journey. I thought it was brilliant I loved it and I hope
[01:13:13.840 -> 01:13:19.760] people appreciate that your own story is tied up in this in such an incredible way that again you're
[01:13:19.760 -> 01:13:25.760] practicing what you preach.
[01:13:25.760 -> 01:13:29.360] We're now joined by a high performance listener called Luke. Luke, welcome to the show. How
[01:13:29.360 -> 01:13:30.360] are you?
[01:13:30.360 -> 01:13:32.760] Good afternoon, James. It's good to be here.
[01:13:32.760 -> 01:13:36.320] Now normally at this point I would read out the message that was sent in, but I think
[01:13:36.320 -> 01:13:40.000] this is something that you should sort of share with us really. Would you mind talking
[01:13:40.000 -> 01:13:46.320] us through what happened in 2021 and the role that high performance played.
[01:13:46.320 -> 01:13:52.240] Yeah, certainly. So I'll touch with you guys because I scored the podcast through what
[01:13:52.240 -> 01:13:59.520] was a difficult time for my other half, but also myself supporting her last autumn. We
[01:13:59.520 -> 01:14:06.720] were due to become parents for a time back in October 21. Early September she started feeling
[01:14:06.720 -> 01:14:11.480] unwell. We went to the doctor to get her checked out and what we thought was
[01:14:11.480 -> 01:14:16.160] going to be you know some failures and nausea symptoms and we ended up
[01:14:16.160 -> 01:14:20.280] escalating through the course that day through the hierarchy of the NHS being
[01:14:20.280 -> 01:14:27.280] checked out by the sort of the immediate responders and then going into actually being checked in.
[01:14:32.800 -> 01:14:39.680] Yeah, it was very clear that something wasn't right. Her liver and her kidneys basically started shutting down and they decided that she was likely to be suffering from something called
[01:14:39.680 -> 01:14:48.560] acute fatty liver pregnancy. It's a very rare condition, it occurs in something like between o ffatio'r gweithredu. Mae'n ddifrif iawn o ddysgu'n digwydd yn rhai fel ymhlith 1,000 a 7,000 a 15,000 o gweithredu
[01:14:48.560 -> 01:14:51.920] ac yw'r unig ddysgu yw i ddod o hyd i'r gwaeth yno
[01:14:51.920 -> 01:14:54.800] felly maen nhw wedi dweud, dwi'n mynd i gael ti'n cael teimlo,
[01:14:54.800 -> 01:14:57.360] mae Jesse yn mynd i mewn, rydyn ni'n mynd i ddod o hyd i'r gwaeth.
[01:14:57.360 -> 01:15:00.880] I mi roedd yn unig dylunio ar y wybodaeth
[01:15:00.880 -> 01:15:03.520] rydw i eisiau ei ddod o hyd at y pwynt honno a
[01:15:03.520 -> 01:15:05.040] ddweud beth bynnag rydyn ni'n mynd i'w wneud, oherwydd maen nhw'n dweud the information that I needed to take in at that point and really work out what we were going to do
[01:15:05.040 -> 01:15:09.600] because they effectively said, right, we're going to take her into surgery for an emergency C-section.
[01:15:10.240 -> 01:15:14.960] You've got about five minutes at this point to say your goodbyes and work out what you want to
[01:15:14.960 -> 01:15:18.720] say at this point, which is like, well, you know, what do you say at that point in time?
[01:15:20.000 -> 01:15:25.440] She went in, little one was delivered and whisked straight off to intensive care.
[01:15:26.320 -> 01:15:31.920] Jess, unfortunately, she came back out again, but her numbers then started going downhill.
[01:15:31.920 -> 01:15:38.080] She was rushed straight off to the next door hospital to us, which was the QE here in Birmingham,
[01:15:39.040 -> 01:15:43.360] where they fought and it was very touch and go for the next 24 hours or so.
[01:15:44.480 -> 01:15:46.080] But luckily, she pulled it through. Our little one did really well, actually. I mean, ac roedd yn ddiddorol iawn i'r 24 hwnnw neu rhywfaint, ond mae'n ddiddorol ei fod wedi'i ddod allan.
[01:15:47.280 -> 01:15:51.600] Fe wnaeth ein gadaelwch yn dda iawn, mewn gwirionedd. Roedd yn ymdrechion gynhyrchu am ddau ddau ddau oed,
[01:15:51.600 -> 01:15:56.720] ond wrth iddo, wrth iddo, roedd yn ddiddorol ein gadaelwch yn ddod allan cyn i mi.
[01:15:57.360 -> 01:16:01.840] Fe wnaethom ddod allan yn gyflym ar sut i wneud y peth dda hon yn gyflym.
[01:16:01.840 -> 01:16:05.440] Roeddent yn dda iawn yn y hospital, mewn gwirionedd. Nid oeddent wedi gwneud hyn yn erbyn hyn, ond maen nhw wedi dweud, very quickly. They're really good in the hospital actually. They hadn't done this before, but
[01:16:05.440 -> 01:16:10.680] they said, what we're going to do is we'll admit you into our transitional care ward,
[01:16:10.680 -> 01:16:14.080] teach you how to look after your little one. They'd not done that for a bloke before, so
[01:16:14.080 -> 01:16:18.280] that led to some fun scenes while all these new mothers were looking at me and wondering
[01:16:18.280 -> 01:16:22.080] what this hairy arse bloke was doing in the breakfast queue in the mornings afterwards.
[01:16:22.080 -> 01:16:25.040] It was fantastic because they taught me everything changing that,
[01:16:25.040 -> 01:16:26.440] the feeding, all the rest of it.
[01:16:26.440 -> 01:16:29.880] And a week after he was born, our little one was back home with me.
[01:16:29.880 -> 01:16:35.000] And I was kind of on my own, albeit with family help and friends help as well,
[01:16:35.400 -> 01:16:38.160] to look after our little one while Jess was in hospital recovering.
[01:16:38.360 -> 01:16:42.080] Um, and that's to cut a long story short, that's where I discovered the podcast
[01:16:42.080 -> 01:16:48.040] really, because friends and family support is all well and good, but they're not around at three o'clock in the morning.
[01:16:48.040 -> 01:16:52.680] And I found that the timeline that I was operating gone of looking after our
[01:16:52.680 -> 01:16:57.280] little one of trying to arrange visits into the hospital so that Jess could get
[01:16:57.280 -> 01:17:00.920] some time once she was actually out of the induced coma that she was put into.
[01:17:01.720 -> 01:17:09.200] I was just getting a lot and I was struggling particularly when I was feeding a one, just to keep my eyes open at night time because it's so tiring,
[01:17:09.200 -> 01:17:13.040] even for a so-called smooth pregnancy.
[01:17:13.040 -> 01:17:16.360] And so I looked, I thought, well, okay, I've got headphones, I can stick the headphones
[01:17:16.360 -> 01:17:18.640] on, find something to listen to.
[01:17:18.640 -> 01:17:22.640] And I spotted the podcast and there were a few names on there that I recognized.
[01:17:22.640 -> 01:17:26.680] I'm a big F1 fan, So Toto and Christian were on there.
[01:17:26.680 -> 01:17:29.440] So they obviously attracted me first of all.
[01:17:29.440 -> 01:17:31.240] Nims Perjur was on there of course,
[01:17:31.240 -> 01:17:33.360] who I'd seen on the Netflix documentary as well.
[01:17:33.360 -> 01:17:34.720] So that's how I started.
[01:17:34.720 -> 01:17:35.840] So that was my thing basically.
[01:17:35.840 -> 01:17:37.640] I would stick the headphones on.
[01:17:37.640 -> 01:17:39.320] Our little one would be screaming the heist down
[01:17:39.320 -> 01:17:40.320] while I changed his nappy,
[01:17:40.320 -> 01:17:43.440] because he didn't like that at the time initially.
[01:17:43.440 -> 01:17:44.800] I could turn on the noise canceling,
[01:17:44.800 -> 01:17:46.720] which helped to dim that out a little bit.
[01:17:46.720 -> 01:17:48.160] And while I was feeding him,
[01:17:48.160 -> 01:17:49.520] knocked the noise cancelling off,
[01:17:49.520 -> 01:17:51.440] so I could actually hear that everything was going down
[01:17:51.440 -> 01:17:55.000] as it should be and sit up with him that way, really.
[01:17:55.000 -> 01:17:57.960] I mean, it sounds like an incredibly confusing,
[01:17:57.960 -> 01:18:01.520] bewildering, emotional rollercoaster that you were on.
[01:18:01.520 -> 01:18:04.880] So what was it about the podcast messages
[01:18:04.880 -> 01:18:05.200] that you found sooth So what was it about the podcast messages that you found
[01:18:05.400 -> 01:18:06.520] soothed and helped you?
[01:18:06.920 -> 01:18:11.520] It was almost a coping mechanism, really, um, to focus on the stories
[01:18:11.520 -> 01:18:14.600] of the people you were interviewing who do incredible things.
[01:18:14.600 -> 01:18:17.880] And it just helped to kind of brain me really to think, okay, well,
[01:18:17.880 -> 01:18:21.520] this is a tough moment at the moment, but let's focus on what are the
[01:18:21.520 -> 01:18:24.240] things that we need to get through, what needs to happen in the next
[01:18:24.240 -> 01:18:29.600] hour, the next two hours, and then just apply that to my own circumstances
[01:18:29.600 -> 01:18:34.240] really and then have stories as I say to listen to on the podcast to apply there.
[01:18:34.240 -> 01:18:39.600] And then following that time as well, once Jess was thankfully back out of the hospital
[01:18:39.600 -> 01:18:43.720] and she was back home recovering and she was able to start, you know, taking over and doing
[01:18:43.720 -> 01:18:49.760] her stuff as a mom, I was back at work and I was able to then apply those lessons to my workplace.
[01:18:49.760 -> 01:18:54.320] I started interviewing for jobs because I was keen to move on and take on some more
[01:18:54.320 -> 01:18:59.120] responsibility and actually applied for and got a new job, which I started a few months
[01:18:59.120 -> 01:19:05.160] ago now at a different institution. And yeah, I've just found it's been very helpful
[01:19:05.160 -> 01:19:08.200] as well as just the pure academic interest
[01:19:08.200 -> 01:19:10.720] of listening to how some people lead their lives.
[01:19:10.720 -> 01:19:13.720] And now that your other half is back home
[01:19:13.720 -> 01:19:14.840] and your baby's healthy,
[01:19:14.840 -> 01:19:17.280] and for those that are listening to this and can't see it,
[01:19:17.280 -> 01:19:18.960] I know you're talking to us with a sling on,
[01:19:18.960 -> 01:19:20.520] I won't mention how you broke your arm,
[01:19:20.520 -> 01:19:22.240] but you've had a bit of an injury.
[01:19:22.240 -> 01:19:28.700] Do you feel like high performance is kind of insulating you for things that may well come up in the future? Because we all have
[01:19:28.700 -> 01:19:32.920] best laid plans. And as you've said, best laid plans often don't happen. Do you feel
[01:19:32.920 -> 01:19:37.620] in a better place for dealing with whatever might be in front of you in the future?
[01:19:37.620 -> 01:19:42.100] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are so many lessons when I was kind of having to think
[01:19:42.100 -> 01:19:45.060] about what I wanted to say on this chat, trying
[01:19:45.060 -> 01:19:48.700] to narrow down the things that really stuck out to me. I think the one, one of your rugby
[01:19:48.700 -> 01:19:54.500] interviewers, they spoke about feeling nerves during the game and flipping that round. So
[01:19:54.500 -> 01:19:58.480] instead of seeing that as a negative thing, actually embracing it as a positive, if you're
[01:19:58.480 -> 01:20:03.700] feeling nervous, if you're feeling excited, feeling the pressure, that means you're where
[01:20:03.700 -> 01:20:05.080] you want to be, you care about
[01:20:05.080 -> 01:20:10.800] what you're doing. And that's something certainly in interviews. I also in my spare time, so
[01:20:10.800 -> 01:20:14.880] I'll play keyboards, part of the big soul band, and sometimes we'll do a big gig and
[01:20:14.880 -> 01:20:19.800] you can feel the nerves picking up there. And again, just that slight flip in your head
[01:20:19.800 -> 01:20:23.800] of just thinking, okay, well, you know, if I'm feeling the butterflies in my stomach,
[01:20:23.800 -> 01:20:29.520] that's, that's not a bad thing, is it? That's, that's something positive there. I love that. Listen, thank you so much for
[01:20:29.520 -> 01:20:33.760] coming and joining us and we wish you all the best with whatever comes next. Thank you both. Yeah,
[01:20:33.760 -> 01:20:37.600] it's been great to see you. And, uh, it's always weird when your podcast people start talking back
[01:20:37.600 -> 01:20:46.160] to you, but it's been fun. Well, look, as always, huge thanks to you for growing and sharing this podcast among your
[01:20:46.160 -> 01:20:51.400] community. I only ask one thing, just one thing, and it is that you tell someone about
[01:20:51.400 -> 01:20:54.740] this podcast. That is the thing that makes the biggest difference to us. I don't care
[01:20:54.740 -> 01:20:58.660] about whether you sign up for the circle or buy the books or come and see us on tour or
[01:20:58.660 -> 01:21:02.000] anything like that. I just want you to tell someone that might need high performance in
[01:21:02.000 -> 01:21:08.280] their life, that it's here for them and that it's free and they can access all of it. Please spread the learnings that you're
[01:21:08.280 -> 01:21:13.280] taking from these conversations. Thanks to Finn and Hannah, to Will, Eve, to Gemma, to
[01:21:13.280 -> 01:21:18.680] the whole team behind high performance. And remember, there is no secret. As you've heard,
[01:21:18.680 -> 01:21:23.840] especially on this episode, it's all there for you. So please chase world-class basics
[01:21:23.840 -> 01:21:26.040] and don't get high on your own supply.
[01:21:26.040 -> 01:21:29.400] Remain humble, curious, and empathetic,
[01:21:29.400 -> None] and we'll see you very soon. you