E138 - James Patterson, world's best-selling author: 75 years of learning has taught me this…

James Patterson is one of the world’s most successful authors, having sold over four hundred million books. 

In this episode James takes us through the challenges of his career and the ‘Eureka moment’ that made him quit marketing and become a full time writer. Having co-authored books with Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton, James explores how to best build relationships, earn trust and the importance of laughter. Having grown-up working class, and gradually made his way to the wealthy upper class, James explains how authenticity is key within his work, and personal, life. 

Finding the thing at the core of everything he does is key to Jame’s work, if he can find the core of every book the story can truly begin. Jake, Damian and James discuss how he keeps an inventory of his strengths and weaknesses, the importance of exploration and the value of education.

Warning, there is swearing in this episode.

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**Section 1: Introduction to James Patterson**

* James Patterson is a New York Times bestselling author with over 400 million books sold worldwide.
* He is known for his fast-paced thrillers and his ability to connect with readers.
* Patterson has also written several non-fiction books, including his autobiography, "James Patterson by James Patterson."

---

**Section 2: The Importance of Authenticity and Understanding People**

* Patterson believes that authenticity is key to his success as a writer.
* He strives to write stories that are relatable and that connect with readers on a personal level.
* Patterson also emphasizes the importance of understanding people and their motivations.
* He believes that this understanding is essential for creating believable and compelling characters.

---

**Section 3: The Power of Laughter and Building Relationships**

* Patterson believes that laughter is an important part of life and that it can help to build relationships.
* He often incorporates humor into his writing, and he enjoys making his readers laugh.
* Patterson also believes that building relationships is essential for success in any field.
* He has made a conscious effort to build relationships with other authors, publishers, and readers.

---

**Section 4: The Value of Education and Exploration**

* Patterson believes that education is important for everyone, regardless of their age or background.
* He encourages people to continue learning and exploring new things throughout their lives.
* Patterson himself is an avid reader and he is always looking for new and interesting books to read.
* He also enjoys traveling and experiencing different cultures.

---

**Section 5: The Importance of Knowing Your Strengths and Weaknesses**

* Patterson believes that it is important for people to know their strengths and weaknesses.
* He encourages people to focus on their strengths and to work on improving their weaknesses.
* Patterson himself has a clear understanding of his own strengths and weaknesses.
* He knows that he is a good storyteller and that he is able to connect with readers on a personal level.
* However, he also knows that he is not a strong editor and that he needs to rely on others to help him with this aspect of the writing process.

---

**Section 6: The Secret to a Happy and Fulfilling Life**

* Patterson believes that the secret to a happy and fulfilling life is to find something that you love to do and then to do it as much as possible.
* He is fortunate to have found his passion in writing, and he is grateful for the opportunity to do what he loves for a living.
* Patterson encourages people to find their own passions and to pursue them with all their hearts.

# James Patterson: The Art of Storytelling and the Journey to Success

**Navigating Criticism and Maintaining Authenticity**

James Patterson, the renowned author, emphasizes the importance of embracing criticism and learning from it. He believes that it can be helpful in identifying areas for improvement and refining one's craft. However, he also acknowledges that excessive negativity can be harmful, and it's essential to maintain a healthy perspective. Patterson emphasizes the value of authenticity in his work, striving to find the core of every story and character to create a genuine connection with readers.

**The Significance of Education and Exploration**

Patterson stresses the importance of education, believing that it can open up new possibilities and provide a foundation for success. He encourages individuals to explore different subjects and experiences to broaden their horizons and gain a deeper understanding of the world around them. Patterson also highlights the value of lifelong learning, emphasizing the need to continuously seek knowledge and personal growth.

**Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Embracing Confidence**

Patterson addresses the common experience of imposter syndrome, where individuals doubt their abilities and accomplishments. He encourages people to recognize that these feelings are often rooted in insecurity and to focus on their strengths and achievements. Patterson suggests building self-confidence by acknowledging one's accomplishments, seeking support from others, and practicing self-compassion.

**The Power of Detached Curiosity and Human Connection**

Patterson emphasizes the value of detached curiosity, the ability to observe and understand situations without judgment. He believes that this perspective can lead to deeper insights and a better understanding of human behavior. Patterson also stresses the importance of human connection, highlighting the need for meaningful relationships and genuine interactions with others.

**Finding the Core of Every Story and Maximizing Strengths**

Patterson emphasizes the significance of finding the core of every story, the central theme or message that drives the narrative. He believes that once this core is identified, the story can truly begin to take shape. Additionally, Patterson encourages individuals to identify and maximize their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses, leading to greater success and fulfillment.

**The Importance of Laughter and Maintaining a Sense of Humor**

Patterson highlights the importance of laughter and maintaining a sense of humor, particularly in challenging situations. He believes that humor can help defuse tension, promote resilience, and bring people together. Patterson encourages individuals to embrace laughter as a tool for coping with life's difficulties and fostering positive connections with others.

**Building Relationships, Earning Trust, and the Value of Authenticity**

Patterson emphasizes the importance of building relationships and earning trust, both in personal and professional life. He believes that authenticity is key to fostering genuine connections and establishing lasting relationships. Patterson encourages individuals to be themselves, to be honest and transparent, and to demonstrate empathy and understanding towards others.

**The Journey to Success: Embracing Challenges and Overcoming Obstacles**

Patterson's journey to success was not without its challenges. He faced rejection and setbacks early in his career, but he persevered and eventually achieved remarkable success. Patterson encourages individuals to embrace challenges and view them as opportunities for growth and learning. He emphasizes the importance of resilience, determination, and the ability to learn from failures.

**The Power of Storytelling and Creating Impactful Work**

Patterson believes that storytelling has the power to entertain, inspire, and transform lives. He emphasizes the importance of creating impactful work that resonates with readers and leaves a lasting impression. Patterson encourages individuals to use their storytelling abilities to make a positive difference in the world, to raise awareness for important issues, and to connect people from all walks of life.

# High-Performance Podcast Episode Summary: James Patterson on Authenticity, Self-Awareness, and Storytelling

## Introduction:
- The episode features James Patterson, one of the world's most successful authors with over 400 million books sold.
- The discussion focuses on the challenges Patterson faced in his career, his "Eureka moment" that led him to quit marketing and become a full-time writer, and insights on building relationships, earning trust, and the importance of laughter.

## Key Points:
### 1. Authenticity and Self-Awareness:
- Patterson emphasizes the importance of authenticity in his work and personal life.
- He stresses the need for self-awareness, including recognizing strengths, weaknesses, and passions, to achieve success.

### 2. The "Eureka Moment":
- Patterson recounts a transformative moment when he realized that he wanted to pursue writing full-time.
- This decision required courage and a willingness to take risks, which ultimately led to his remarkable success as an author.

### 3. Building Relationships and Trust:
- Patterson highlights the significance of building strong relationships and earning trust in various aspects of life.
- He emphasizes the value of laughter and humor in fostering positive connections with others.

### 4. Storytelling and the Core of Everything:
- Patterson believes that finding the core of everything he does is crucial to his work.
- Once he identifies the core of a story, he can truly begin the writing process.

### 5. Exploration and Education:
- Patterson stresses the importance of exploration and continuous learning.
- He encourages individuals to keep an inventory of their strengths and weaknesses to identify areas for improvement.

### 6. Controversies and Insights:
- The podcast mentions controversies surrounding Patterson's co-authoring of books with celebrities like Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton.
- Patterson provides insights into the challenges and opportunities of collaborating with high-profile individuals.

### 7. Quotes and Statements:
- The episode includes memorable quotes and statements from Patterson, encapsulating key messages and takeaways from the discussion.

## Conclusion:
- The podcast emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, authenticity, and the ability to find the core of one's work to achieve success.
- Patterson's journey and insights offer valuable lessons for aspiring writers, entrepreneurs, and anyone seeking to live a high-performance life.

[00:00.000 -> 00:05.940] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey and you're listening to High Performance, our conversation for
[00:05.940 -> 00:10.720] you every single week. And just a quick reminder, if you would like to hear this episode and
[00:10.720 -> 00:15.720] every episode without adverts and with loads of additional content and be part of a new
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[00:26.980 -> 00:30.260] cups of coffee a month, you can get even more from the high
[00:30.260 -> 00:34.160] performance team. But this podcast reminds you that it's
[00:34.160 -> 00:37.940] within your ambition, your purpose, your story, it's all
[00:37.940 -> 00:40.460] within we just helped you unlock it by turning the lived
[00:40.460 -> 00:43.760] experiences of the planet's highest performers into your
[00:43.760 -> 00:45.280] life lessons. So right now,
[00:45.280 -> 00:49.920] allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes to speak to the greatest leaders, thinkers,
[00:49.920 -> 00:55.280] sports stars, entrepreneurs, and in this case, authors on the planet, so they can be your
[00:55.280 -> 01:00.640] teacher. Remember, this podcast is not about high achievement or high success. It's about high
[01:00.640 -> 01:07.960] happiness. It's about high self-worth and taking you closer to a life of fulfillment, empathy, and understanding.
[01:07.960 -> 01:11.560] Today, the most successful author on the planet
[01:11.560 -> 01:14.160] joins us on High Performance.
[01:15.440 -> 01:17.000] It seemed to me to make sense
[01:17.000 -> 01:18.400] to do something that I like to do.
[01:18.400 -> 01:21.200] And I started writing and I loved it.
[01:21.200 -> 01:23.280] And I said, well, somehow I want to try to figure out
[01:23.280 -> 01:25.480] how to do this, make a living out of it.
[01:25.480 -> 01:29.400] You know, the secret of life is finding something that you love to do.
[01:29.400 -> 01:32.840] And then and then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it.
[01:32.840 -> 01:36.840] You know, you're going to make a pitch to President Clinton on why he should, you know,
[01:36.840 -> 01:38.640] write books with you or, you know, why should he?
[01:38.640 -> 01:39.640] I don't know.
[01:39.640 -> 01:43.120] I got to think about it and figure out what's the most persuasive argument.
[01:43.120 -> 01:44.880] Dolly Parton, same thing.
[01:44.880 -> 01:45.860] She's not full of herself,
[01:45.860 -> 01:48.480] but she's very confident in her abilities.
[01:48.480 -> 01:50.360] And I think, you know, President Clinton
[01:50.360 -> 01:52.860] is similar that way, I think I'm similar that way.
[01:53.900 -> 01:56.480] I don't know that there are any rules, honestly,
[01:56.480 -> 01:59.780] other than understanding who you are
[01:59.780 -> 02:01.400] and following that within reason
[02:01.400 -> 02:04.200] and maxing your strength and minimizing your weaknesses.
[02:07.280 -> 02:10.080] following that within reason and maxing your strength and minimizing your weaknesses. I actually really enjoyed this conversation.
[02:10.080 -> 02:13.760] You might be thinking that this is us talking about how to write a great book or how to
[02:13.760 -> 02:14.900] be a great author.
[02:14.900 -> 02:16.400] It's none of those things.
[02:16.400 -> 02:18.700] It's about how to understand people.
[02:18.700 -> 02:20.800] It's about how to create relationships.
[02:20.800 -> 02:22.480] It's about how to hook people in.
[02:22.480 -> 02:24.120] It's about how to sell something.
[02:24.120 -> 02:27.000] It's about how to get to someone's heart, not just their head.
[02:27.000 -> 02:30.000] But this is also a conversation with someone who's lived an amazing life.
[02:30.000 -> 02:35.000] You know, James Patterson is about to bring 75 years of wisdom to this podcast.
[02:35.000 -> 02:37.000] His first job was in a psychiatric hospital.
[02:37.000 -> 02:41.000] He's recovered from prostate problems and lung cancer.
[02:41.000 -> 02:45.320] He also holds the New York Times record for the most number one New York Times bestsellers
[02:45.320 -> 02:50.520] by a single author, a total of 67, which by the way is also a Guinness World Record. I
[02:50.520 -> 02:54.980] know you're going to really enjoy this conversation. I absolutely found it fascinating. And actually
[02:54.980 -> 03:01.880] we recorded this episode before James Patterson made his controversial remarks about white
[03:01.880 -> 03:08.880] people facing racism in the publishing world, which he subsequently backtracked on. He said that he absolutely doesn't believe that and
[03:08.880 -> 03:11.840] it was a mistake. And it totally was a mistake. You only have to look at the
[03:11.840 -> 03:16.120] the stats surrounding the amount of white people who get their books
[03:16.120 -> 03:20.760] published compared to others to realize that it was a mistake. However, that in
[03:20.760 -> 03:24.360] itself is a great reminder for all of us that we are flawed, that we can
[03:24.360 -> 03:25.120] constantly learn,
[03:25.120 -> 03:30.360] and that we need to check ourselves all the time. So I really hope you enjoyed this conversation
[03:30.360 -> 03:37.560] with James Patterson. Our chat with the world's number one selling author comes next on High
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[05:54.800 -> 05:59.880] What we tend to do, James, is start all of our conversations with the same question.
[05:59.880 -> 06:05.000] What is high performance? For someone as phenomenally successful as you,
[06:05.000 -> 06:08.000] after all the years you've been enjoying that success,
[06:08.000 -> 06:11.000] have you got a definition for high performance?
[06:11.000 -> 06:15.000] Yeah, I mean, look, I don't come from the same place as a lot of people.
[06:15.000 -> 06:17.000] I don't think about it.
[06:17.000 -> 06:18.000] I don't work for a living.
[06:18.000 -> 06:20.000] I play for a living.
[06:20.000 -> 06:23.000] Somebody said you're lucky if you find something you like to do in life
[06:23.000 -> 06:25.680] and then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it. And that's kind of my gig.
[06:25.680 -> 06:28.640] I don't think about it at all.
[06:28.640 -> 06:33.200] I consider it to be, I consider myself to be lucky.
[06:33.200 -> 06:36.560] I grew up in a little town in upstate New York on the river,
[06:36.560 -> 06:38.600] and I still see the world through that.
[06:38.600 -> 06:40.520] So I get a kick out of this stuff.
[06:40.520 -> 06:42.880] You know, I do a couple of books of President Clinton.
[06:42.880 -> 06:43.680] This is cool.
[06:43.680 -> 06:44.960] I hang out with them.
[06:44.960 -> 06:46.000] Very interesting. I know Trump. Trump and couple of books at President Clinton. This is cool. I hang out with them.
[06:46.000 -> 06:46.760] Very interesting.
[06:46.760 -> 06:48.400] I know Trump.
[06:48.400 -> 06:51.240] Trump and Clinton used to play golf together, which is hilarious.
[06:51.240 -> 06:53.800] I don't know if I'm answering your question or avoiding it or whatever,
[06:53.800 -> 06:55.840] but I don't think about it.
[06:55.840 -> 06:56.800] I never have.
[06:56.800 -> 06:57.800] I do a lot of stuff.
[06:57.800 -> 07:00.360] I stay busy.
[07:00.360 -> 07:05.100] I find that I'm, I think I'm doing the best work I've ever done right now
[07:12.060 -> 07:12.200] So I'm probably just delusional. So well, can I jump in there James and quote to you in your brilliant book?
[07:17.600 -> 07:18.100] One story that jumps out to me was when you met Walter Sullivan who told you that you have a gift
[07:23.000 -> 07:26.840] You say that you don't think about it, but other people have obviously spotted it. What is it? You that gift is? Well, the gift for writing, I mean, this,
[07:28.000 -> 07:29.920] I have an autobiography coming out, obviously,
[07:29.920 -> 07:32.720] James Patterson by James Patterson, very modest title.
[07:33.920 -> 07:37.280] And Walter Sullivan was a professor I had
[07:37.280 -> 07:39.400] at Vanderbilt Graduate School.
[07:40.640 -> 07:44.360] And he just, he read a bunch of my short stories
[07:44.360 -> 07:47.600] and he just felt, what is that gift?
[07:47.600 -> 07:48.600] I don't know.
[07:48.600 -> 07:55.040] I mean, for me, I like to pretend that I'm telling a story to somebody, it's one person
[07:55.040 -> 07:58.880] sitting across from me, I have this in the autobiography, I don't want them to get up
[07:58.880 -> 07:59.880] till I'm finished.
[07:59.880 -> 08:05.920] I haven't led that exciting a life compared to a lot of people, but this autobiography
[08:05.920 -> 08:11.560] is a lot more interesting than some people who have led really interesting lives, but
[08:11.560 -> 08:13.840] I just know how to tell a story better than they do.
[08:13.840 -> 08:16.960] And what was the impact of that though?
[08:16.960 -> 08:21.560] We often talk on this podcast, James, around this, what Sigmund Freud called the golden
[08:21.560 -> 08:25.100] seed moment where somebody recognizes that
[08:25.100 -> 08:27.700] gift in you. What was the impact of that on you?
[08:27.700 -> 08:33.660] Now my grandmother, you know, she basically said, you know, you can do, you
[08:33.660 -> 08:37.340] got it, you got a big IQ, you can do whatever you want to do, so you got
[08:37.340 -> 08:40.100] to figure out what you want to do. She said I could not play basketball in the
[08:40.100 -> 08:46.200] NBA, so forget about that. And so she just drilled it into
[08:46.200 -> 08:48.680] my head that I could I could accomplish what I felt like
[08:48.680 -> 08:52.480] accomplishing. And then, you know, I did, it seemed to me to
[08:52.480 -> 08:55.400] make sense to do something that I like to do. And I started
[08:55.400 -> 08:59.040] writing and, and I loved it. And I said, Well, somehow I want to
[08:59.040 -> 09:01.080] try to figure out how to do this, you know, make a living
[09:01.080 -> 09:04.600] out of it. In the beginning, I was I was in advertising, and I
[09:04.600 -> 09:07.320] wound up running J. Walter Thompson North
[09:07.320 -> 09:10.040] America, which was about 65% of their business.
[09:10.040 -> 09:11.960] And I was still fairly young.
[09:11.960 -> 09:14.040] I was in my 30s.
[09:14.040 -> 09:15.720] And I don't know why I was good at that.
[09:15.720 -> 09:20.460] I think part of it is I have a sense for what's going to move people and what isn't going
[09:20.460 -> 09:22.160] to move them.
[09:22.160 -> 09:26.040] There is a thing in the book, there was a guy there,
[09:26.040 -> 09:28.680] an account guy who, in the beginning, he couldn't stand me
[09:28.680 -> 09:30.480] because I was a young and I was a little arrogant
[09:30.480 -> 09:33.480] and whatever, but I thought I kind of within reason
[09:33.480 -> 09:35.240] knew the answers to stuff.
[09:35.240 -> 09:36.720] And eventually, it's Southern guy,
[09:36.720 -> 09:39.120] and he came up with the line, he said,
[09:39.120 -> 09:42.200] if Patterson says a grasshopper can move a plow,
[09:42.200 -> 09:44.000] hitch up that little motherfucker.
[09:44.000 -> 09:47.200] You know, it's a funny line.
[09:47.200 -> 09:48.200] Great line.
[09:48.200 -> 09:53.480] And it's easy to throw away, you know, I became the CEO at 38 of J. Walter Thompson North
[09:53.480 -> 09:54.880] America.
[09:54.880 -> 09:58.240] The reality is to do that, there needs to be incredible hard work, there needs to be
[09:58.240 -> 10:00.560] real self-belief, there needs to be dedication.
[10:00.560 -> 10:04.440] And you've got to run over people, you've got to run over your competition, you've got
[10:04.440 -> 10:05.760] to kill them.
[10:05.760 -> 10:06.760] Explain that.
[10:06.760 -> 10:11.520] You know, I mean, the advertising, the nice thing about it is it's quantifiable.
[10:11.520 -> 10:14.960] You think something's going to work and you have to keep delivering.
[10:14.960 -> 10:18.920] And if it doesn't work, they go, you know, you're full of it.
[10:18.920 -> 10:19.920] You're wrong.
[10:19.920 -> 10:21.920] You're just wrong again and again and again.
[10:21.920 -> 10:25.000] You know, there's a piece in the book I used to,
[10:25.000 -> 10:30.000] when they bring the trainees in, and I would stand up in front of them in a room,
[10:30.000 -> 10:34.000] and I said, I'm going to teach you how to make a million dollars a year in advertising.
[10:34.000 -> 10:37.000] In those days, a million was decent money, no more.
[10:37.000 -> 10:42.000] Now I have to say I'm going to teach you how to make $10 million a year.
[10:42.000 -> 10:44.000] And I said, it's very simple.
[10:44.000 -> 10:46.000] And I had somebody, and they brought up a cream pie.
[10:46.000 -> 10:48.000] And I held it in my hand.
[10:48.000 -> 10:51.000] And then I invited somebody up from the audience.
[10:51.000 -> 10:54.000] And I'm holding the cream pie and looking at them and, you know, whatever.
[10:54.000 -> 10:57.000] And everybody's expecting I'm going to cream.
[10:57.000 -> 11:00.000] But I gave it to the other person and I said, hit me.
[11:00.000 -> 11:02.000] And they put the cream pie in my face.
[11:02.000 -> 11:04.000] And I've got the cream pie all over my face.
[11:04.000 -> 11:07.800] And I said, here's the secret in terms of advertising
[11:07.800 -> 11:11.240] You got to hit him in the face with the cream pie and while you got their attention
[11:11.620 -> 11:18.480] You got to say something smart the end. That's it. There's nothing else. No cream pie. It doesn't work. Nobody paid attention
[11:18.660 -> 11:23.500] Nobody heard your message cream pie. That's the start the second part is and okay now
[11:23.500 -> 11:25.000] What are you gonna to tell them?
[11:25.000 -> 11:27.000] You got their attention, you're going to say something stupid
[11:27.000 -> 11:31.000] or they're not going to remember who the hell brought them the message, etc.
[11:31.000 -> 11:35.000] And a lot of times it's coming down to this, what's the simple principle,
[11:35.000 -> 11:40.000] what's the core of whatever it is, what's the core to writing thrillers
[11:40.000 -> 11:44.000] and what's the core to writing kids' books or you're going to make a pitch
[11:44.000 -> 11:48.340] to President Clinton on why he should you know write books with you or
[11:48.340 -> 11:51.400] you know why should he I don't know I could think about it and figure out
[11:51.400 -> 11:55.000] what's the most persuasive argument. Dolly Parton same thing.
[11:55.000 -> 12:01.180] But would you tell us how then, then James? So like if you go into that Clinton example then how did you pitch to him?
[12:01.180 -> 12:05.360] I knew that that he loved mysteries anyway and I knew that we have the same him? I knew that he loved Mysteries Anyway.
[12:05.360 -> 12:09.360] And I knew that we have the same lawyer, and I knew that the lawyer had been trying to
[12:09.360 -> 12:10.360] get him to write something.
[12:10.360 -> 12:16.240] And I said, look, I'm convinced that, and I think we have the same goal here, which
[12:16.240 -> 12:20.920] is at the end of the process, we want to look at this book and go, we're really glad we
[12:20.920 -> 12:21.920] did this.
[12:21.920 -> 12:25.240] You know, I think both of us at this point, neither one of us want to do something
[12:25.240 -> 12:26.080] where at the end of it you go,
[12:26.080 -> 12:29.040] yeah, we made some money, but it sucks.
[12:29.040 -> 12:30.840] And that was compelling to him.
[12:30.840 -> 12:33.240] I knew he liked mysteries and I reminded him of that.
[12:33.240 -> 12:36.120] I said that it's going to be as much work as you want it to be.
[12:36.120 -> 12:38.440] It can be a lot of work or it can be a little work.
[12:38.440 -> 12:39.640] It's all up to you.
[12:39.640 -> 12:41.320] I mean, I have a famous athlete
[12:41.320 -> 12:42.920] that I'm talking to right now.
[12:42.920 -> 12:43.920] I don't know if we're going to do it,
[12:43.920 -> 12:46.280] but it's the same notion.
[12:46.280 -> 12:47.800] We're going to do something good.
[12:47.800 -> 12:53.160] In this case, it'll be TV and maybe a novel at some point.
[12:53.160 -> 12:54.240] It's going to be good.
[12:54.240 -> 12:55.840] You can give me as much as you want.
[12:55.840 -> 12:57.440] I want the authenticity for sure.
[12:57.440 -> 12:59.680] I mean, that was the other thing with Clinton and even
[12:59.680 -> 13:01.600] with Dali to some extent.
[13:01.600 -> 13:03.760] A lot of thrillers, and I've done this,
[13:03.760 -> 13:07.600] you're making stuff up, okay? With Clinton,
[13:08.160 -> 13:11.920] there are some things that are a little over the top, although in this day, it's hard to say that
[13:11.920 -> 13:16.800] anything is over the top because it seems like anything can happen. But it was like, okay,
[13:16.800 -> 13:22.160] if this happened, what would the Secret Service actually do? You've been in a car, what would
[13:22.160 -> 13:25.000] they act, you know, step by step. Or if this
[13:25.000 -> 13:31.000] thing happened, if, you know, if the president had to disappear, which is unlikely and hard
[13:31.000 -> 13:36.240] to do, let's lay it out how this could happen, you know. So you had the authenticity there,
[13:36.240 -> 13:42.800] which Hollywood loves. And the same thing with Dolly's book, the authenticity of, not
[13:42.800 -> 13:45.560] even so much country and Western western but just a music scene.
[13:45.560 -> 13:46.560] How does it happen?
[13:46.560 -> 13:47.560] How does somebody break in?
[13:47.560 -> 13:48.640] How hard it is?
[13:48.640 -> 13:52.280] You can have all the talent in the world and not make it in that business.
[13:52.280 -> 13:57.640] So how did you establish a relationship then with somebody like Bill Clinton?
[13:57.640 -> 13:59.020] We have a lot of laughs.
[13:59.020 -> 14:00.080] They trust me.
[14:00.080 -> 14:01.480] I'm quick.
[14:01.480 -> 14:02.880] We don't mess around.
[14:02.880 -> 14:05.200] You know, my grandmother had a couple of lines.
[14:05.200 -> 14:07.480] She always wanted to go chop wood.
[14:07.480 -> 14:10.400] And she had another line, hungry dogs run faster.
[14:10.400 -> 14:12.800] And Dolly's like that, and so is Clinton to some extent.
[14:12.800 -> 14:14.400] I mean, they're both like, I mean, let's do it.
[14:14.400 -> 14:16.680] Let's rock and roll, let's get it done.
[14:16.680 -> 14:18.280] Bill talks a little bit more,
[14:18.280 -> 14:20.480] but we've become friends, which is great.
[14:20.480 -> 14:22.360] I mean, you're gonna work with somebody
[14:22.360 -> 14:23.240] over a couple of years.
[14:23.240 -> 14:28.400] You wanna be, you know, Clinton for Christmas, what did he send me this year? Monopoly for
[14:28.400 -> 14:29.400] socialists.
[14:29.400 -> 14:35.160] Let me pick up on something there then, which is hungry dogs run faster. You're now in your
[14:35.160 -> 14:40.460] 70s. You've had phenomenal success. You have sold millions and millions of books. No one
[14:40.460 -> 14:45.600] sold more around the world. Why are you still a hungry dog? Because
[14:45.600 -> 14:48.960] As I think I said, I don't work for a living. I play for a living and
[14:49.760 -> 14:51.480] And why would I not want to do that?
[14:51.480 -> 14:56.740] You know, it's like you can eat ice cream as many hot fudge sundaes as you want to okay
[14:57.000 -> 15:01.520] I'll do that and you know and as I said, I think and I don't think I'm deluding myself
[15:01.520 -> 15:05.280] But I think I'm better than I was 10 years ago.
[15:05.280 -> 15:09.600] I think actually writing the autobiography focused me a lot. I think that was really useful.
[15:10.160 -> 15:14.080] And I think that, you know, what I've been doing since then, I think is better.
[15:14.080 -> 15:17.600] And the autobiography, that's tough. You're going to, you know, take your own life and
[15:17.600 -> 15:23.440] make it interesting and tell these little stories and keep people involved. So challenge.
[15:23.440 -> 15:28.000] And I like it. And also challenges. You know, okay, we're going to try that. I tried
[15:28.000 -> 15:32.000] fiction, you know, first with the Jeffrey Epstein book and then
[15:32.000 -> 15:36.000] got one coming on Diana and the boys.
[15:36.000 -> 15:40.000] Diana and sons. Which is different. And that's a key thing too. I mean, there are a lot of
[15:40.000 -> 15:44.000] her as princess. This is her as mother. And the
[15:44.000 -> 15:46.840] boy said about her, she's the best mother in the world.
[15:46.840 -> 15:49.600] And so that's a different look at Diana.
[15:49.600 -> 15:52.240] And that's another thing that I'm pretty good at going like,
[15:52.240 -> 15:53.960] who needs another Diana book?
[15:53.960 -> 15:56.480] We don't need another Diana princess book at all.
[15:56.480 -> 15:58.760] But a mama book, that's different.
[15:58.760 -> 16:00.180] That's could be interesting.
[16:00.180 -> 16:02.120] And you know, and that's the core.
[16:02.120 -> 16:03.640] When I talked about the core,
[16:03.640 -> 16:08.400] that's what I thought the key to the Diana thing, it's Diana and Sons.
[16:08.400 -> 16:13.880] That's the real message, that's the hook, that's the get people involved and then deliver
[16:13.880 -> 16:14.880] it to them.
[16:14.880 -> 16:17.880] I mean, I don't want to just, you know, lie about something that isn't accurate, that
[16:17.880 -> 16:18.880] would be bad.
[16:18.880 -> 16:23.840] There's a good story there for people who are listening to this about finding something
[16:23.840 -> 16:25.800] that's different to everybody else.
[16:25.800 -> 16:29.040] And we have so many people listening to this podcast, James,
[16:29.040 -> 16:32.580] because they're either a bit lost or they're a bit confused,
[16:32.580 -> 16:35.000] or the one thing they can't find is their passion
[16:35.000 -> 16:36.440] or their reason for being.
[16:36.440 -> 16:37.400] Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[16:37.400 -> 16:39.040] What advice would you give them?
[16:40.000 -> 16:42.040] In terms of the writing or things like that,
[16:42.040 -> 16:43.260] I mean, if you're an addict,
[16:43.260 -> 16:44.640] you're not gonna be able to help yourself.
[16:44.640 -> 16:45.020] So that's just gonna happen. I think part of it is, In terms of the writing or things like that, I mean, if you're an addict, you're not going to be able to help yourself.
[16:45.020 -> 16:47.280] So that's just going to happen.
[16:47.280 -> 16:49.520] I think part of it is, and we certainly
[16:49.520 -> 16:52.560] try to do this with our son, Jack's 24 now,
[16:52.560 -> 16:55.320] and all we would try to do is just keep opening doors
[16:55.320 -> 16:57.400] and just stay open to stuff.
[16:57.400 -> 16:59.080] Stay open, stay open, stay open.
[16:59.080 -> 17:00.320] Open the door, check that.
[17:00.320 -> 17:02.000] Don't just sit there and assume.
[17:02.000 -> 17:03.120] People do it all the time.
[17:03.120 -> 17:04.240] I wouldn't like to do this.
[17:04.240 -> 17:07.640] I got this one of my best friends is a teacher, and he would have been great in business, but all the time. I wouldn't like to do this I got this one my best friend is a teacher and he would have been great in business
[17:07.640 -> 17:12.040] But he was I'd be I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like it. And then after he was a teacher
[17:12.040 -> 17:15.960] He did some some work with some businesses. I said, you know, I kind of like this shit
[17:15.960 -> 17:21.240] You know and because he never opened the door and we just can't sit back and you know
[17:21.240 -> 17:29.000] We read an article or whatever. We know somebody who does who does something well I wouldn't want to do that no reach in mess around with it and
[17:29.000 -> 17:33.340] how do you open those doors my parents or my mother was a teacher I was good
[17:33.340 -> 17:37.120] student because I didn't I want to get out a little town that I was in but but
[17:37.120 -> 17:39.960] I didn't like it I didn't like school at all I didn't like I didn't I didn't like
[17:39.960 -> 17:44.400] to read when I was a little kid so I closed that door and then when I worked
[17:44.400 -> 17:45.380] at a mental hospital worked my way through college and I was a little kid. So I closed that door. And then when I worked at a mental hospital,
[17:45.380 -> 17:48.420] worked my way through college, and I had a lot of nights.
[17:48.420 -> 17:50.240] And so I started reading like a mad person,
[17:50.240 -> 17:52.920] all serious stuff, not the crap that I write.
[17:52.920 -> 17:53.920] I'm just kidding.
[17:53.920 -> 17:56.080] And I liked it, but I turned it off.
[17:58.000 -> 18:00.360] In a million years, I didn't think I'd be a writer.
[18:00.360 -> 18:03.060] I closed that door stupidly.
[18:03.060 -> 18:06.400] So how do you go about opening doors then James now
[18:06.400 -> 18:08.600] and what advice would you give to listeners?
[18:08.600 -> 18:09.760] Talk to people.
[18:09.760 -> 18:11.720] You think you wanna be a lawyer, whatever the hell it is,
[18:11.720 -> 18:13.040] talk to a bunch of lawyers.
[18:13.040 -> 18:15.160] What do you really do?
[18:15.160 -> 18:17.180] It's not like the TV show.
[18:17.180 -> 18:18.960] What really happens?
[18:18.960 -> 18:21.000] And am I gonna like that?
[18:21.000 -> 18:22.520] I mean, that's one of the things that people do.
[18:22.520 -> 18:24.660] Like, oh, I gotta wanna make some money.
[18:24.660 -> 18:28.000] Yeah, that's true, but how are you going to do it?
[18:28.000 -> 18:31.000] You know, my son now is in banking,
[18:31.000 -> 18:34.000] and I'm sort of scratching my head a little bit because he could do anything.
[18:34.000 -> 18:37.000] But am I going to like doing that?
[18:37.000 -> 18:40.000] You know, if you have the luxury of being able to, you know,
[18:40.000 -> 18:45.000] hopefully, you know, support yourself and do something that you like to do. You know, the secret of life is finding something that you like to do.
[18:45.000 -> 18:52.000] The secret of life is finding something that you love to do, and then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it.
[18:52.000 -> 19:00.000] That's the other piece of it. It may be that you have to do your day job, and your real passion is what the hell you do when you go home.
[19:00.000 -> 19:05.640] You're 280 pounds and you're a ballet dancer, probably not going to get into the ballet in London,
[19:05.640 -> 19:07.640] but that doesn't mean you can't do the ballet
[19:07.640 -> 19:08.480] when you come home.
[19:08.480 -> 19:10.480] And that could be very gratifying.
[19:10.480 -> 19:11.320] You know what I mean?
[19:11.320 -> 19:12.800] So sometimes that's the way to do it.
[19:12.800 -> 19:14.560] Or, you know, I didn't immediately,
[19:14.560 -> 19:17.200] I didn't have the guts to go off and just write novels.
[19:17.200 -> 19:20.560] So I worked in advertising and I wrote novels on the side.
[19:20.560 -> 19:22.880] And somehow that balance was fine.
[19:22.880 -> 19:25.080] I kept getting better as a writer
[19:27.220 -> 19:27.420] And I was paying the bills, you know
[19:32.720 -> 19:33.320] So what do you tell us about that early experience then because in again in in the autobiography
[19:39.600 -> 19:39.820] In the autobiography you wrote you that your work ethic of investing that time early in the morning before
[19:45.720 -> 19:47.560] You went to the advertising agency. Would you tell us a little bit around that work ethic and the lessons? Yeah, well, that was the play ethic
[19:47.560 -> 19:51.320] because I'd get up early in the morning, but I wanted to.
[19:51.320 -> 19:52.680] I desperately wanted to.
[19:52.680 -> 19:56.000] I mean, when I went into work at 8.30 or something,
[19:56.000 -> 19:58.720] I felt I'd already accomplished great stuff
[19:58.720 -> 20:00.720] because I'd been writing for a couple of hours.
[20:00.720 -> 20:01.920] I really felt, you know,
[20:01.920 -> 20:04.400] and if I had the opportunity at lunchtime,
[20:04.400 -> 20:05.680] I'd close my door and write for half an hour. Or if I was on a plane know, and if I had the opportunity at lunchtime I'd close my door
[20:05.680 -> 20:10.240] and write for half an hour. Or if I was on a plane ride, yeah, great man, I'm writing.
[20:10.960 -> 20:14.320] You know, so don't, you know, just don't waste any time. And, you know, like a lot of people
[20:14.320 -> 20:19.360] when they get older, they don't know what to do with themselves. I always know what to do. If I
[20:19.360 -> 20:24.320] have free time, if I get one of those periods, you know, and at the end of the day I'm going,
[20:24.320 -> 20:25.000] I don't want to do it.
[20:25.000 -> 20:26.160] I know what to do with myself.
[20:26.160 -> 20:28.040] I come up here and write some more.
[20:28.040 -> 20:29.360] And I love it.
[20:29.360 -> 20:30.880] It's not work.
[20:30.880 -> 20:31.920] Yeah, I'm very lucky.
[20:31.920 -> 20:33.040] I mean, let's face it.
[20:33.040 -> 20:34.480] I lucked into it.
[20:34.480 -> 20:38.800] But, you know, if I hadn't accidentally opened that door,
[20:38.800 -> 20:40.480] I wouldn't have lucked into it because I
[20:40.480 -> 20:43.640] wasn't a huge reader and I didn't
[20:43.640 -> 20:45.800] think of myself as a writer.
[20:45.800 -> 20:50.360] And then I figured out like what are my strengths and weaknesses and you try to max out your
[20:50.360 -> 20:52.700] strengths and minimize your weaknesses.
[20:52.700 -> 20:57.880] And that's true in pretty much anything, whether you're a football player or, you know, okay,
[20:57.880 -> 20:58.880] what do I do?
[20:58.880 -> 21:06.760] And to be honest about it and, you know, improve what you can, You know, when I finally made it big,
[21:06.760 -> 21:10.140] like with Alex Cross books, I sat down and go like, OK,
[21:10.140 -> 21:10.960] what am I good at?
[21:10.960 -> 21:11.460] What am I?
[21:11.460 -> 21:14.580] And I decided I was going to write in those books
[21:14.580 -> 21:16.140] both first and third person.
[21:16.140 -> 21:20.400] So his sections are all in the first person.
[21:20.400 -> 21:22.280] But I can also write third person
[21:22.280 -> 21:26.420] in terms of the villains or whatever other subsidiary characters in the book.
[21:26.420 -> 21:29.540] So I could make use of my strengths and my weaknesses.
[21:29.540 -> 21:31.060] That's another important thing.
[21:31.060 -> 21:33.380] And for people to be honest with themselves.
[21:33.380 -> 21:34.460] And don't worry about it.
[21:34.460 -> 21:35.780] So you got some flaws, so what?
[21:35.780 -> 21:36.940] Who doesn't?
[21:36.940 -> 21:39.580] So you described, like you were talking about
[21:39.580 -> 21:42.100] doing that inventory of your strengths and weaknesses.
[21:42.100 -> 21:48.700] And again, you speak about that period of your life working in the psychiatric hospital that you say helped you to
[21:48.700 -> 21:52.720] develop empathy which has obviously been a great trait in your writing. Would you
[21:52.720 -> 21:58.100] tell us about how you develop that and why it was so important?
[21:58.100 -> 22:05.000] Yeah, part of that I think there was a seed in terms of my family.
[22:05.000 -> 22:09.440] They, you know, I mean, they had their pluses and minuses.
[22:09.440 -> 22:14.320] I mean, I think both my parents had drinking problems, but they were basically good people.
[22:14.320 -> 22:21.640] And, you know, they recognized, you know, I've been poor and I was middle class and
[22:21.640 -> 22:25.080] then I was poor and middle class again and now I'm very
[22:25.080 -> 22:29.620] well to do and on balance I prefer being well to do.
[22:29.620 -> 22:34.360] But I'm really glad that I went through poor and middle class because it taught me a lot
[22:34.360 -> 22:39.400] about understanding people and understanding that there are a lot of people with not a
[22:39.400 -> 22:43.240] lot of money around that are a lot more, I think they're smarter, a lot of people I know
[22:43.240 -> 22:46.720] who didn't really have much money, they're smarter than the people I see here in Palm Beach
[22:46.720 -> 22:49.960] who have millions and billions of dollars.
[22:49.960 -> 22:51.640] You know, some people, they just luck into shit.
[22:51.640 -> 22:53.560] When they don't realize it, they're like,
[22:53.560 -> 22:56.060] they think they're, you know, God's gift,
[22:56.060 -> 22:57.500] but not always the case.
[22:59.640 -> 23:01.840] You know, so, I mean, and I think, you know,
[23:01.840 -> 23:04.520] being exposed to, well, you know,
[23:04.520 -> 23:05.280] my father grew up in a Newberg poorhouse. So it was, that's think, you know, being exposed to, well, you know, my father grew up in a
[23:05.280 -> 23:07.480] Newburgh poorhouse.
[23:07.480 -> 23:09.160] So it was, that's kind of like being homeless.
[23:09.160 -> 23:13.760] His mother was a charwoman there and they got some little room and, you know, so that
[23:13.760 -> 23:14.760] was a part of the background.
[23:14.760 -> 23:18.720] It's not like I take any medals for that, but, you know, it, it, it gets you thinking
[23:18.720 -> 23:25.000] about stuff and, and you recognize that, you know, you, you, you, you need to be lucky.
[23:26.400 -> 23:29.680] But in particular, you just need to have respect for people.
[23:29.680 -> 23:32.440] I have great respect for people that work for a living.
[23:32.440 -> 23:34.240] And I always want people to understand better.
[23:34.240 -> 23:36.260] You know, I'm doing a series of books,
[23:36.260 -> 23:38.000] and they're not really that big in England.
[23:38.000 -> 23:39.280] They should be, because they're really good.
[23:39.280 -> 23:40.800] But like the first one was called
[23:40.800 -> 23:42.600] Walking My Combat Boots.
[23:42.600 -> 23:44.960] And I wrote it with this guy,
[23:44.960 -> 23:46.400] a friend of mine from down here,
[23:46.400 -> 23:47.400] Matt Eversman.
[23:47.400 -> 23:49.400] He was the, you know, the movie Blackhawk Down.
[23:49.400 -> 23:51.400] He was the actual sergeant in the movie.
[23:51.400 -> 23:55.000] And I saw him interviewing some military people one time,
[23:55.000 -> 23:56.400] and I said, this guy is great at it,
[23:56.400 -> 23:58.000] because a lot of times military people,
[23:58.000 -> 24:00.400] they don't want to talk about what happened, you know?
[24:00.400 -> 24:03.800] And he was great at getting people to talk, the military.
[24:03.800 -> 24:05.280] So I said, let's do a book, man.
[24:05.280 -> 24:08.040] And our mission was, at the end of the book,
[24:08.040 -> 24:10.320] that people who had been through it, military people,
[24:10.320 -> 24:13.440] would say, Eversman and Patterson got it right.
[24:13.440 -> 24:15.720] And other people would go, you know,
[24:15.720 -> 24:17.280] I thought I understood the military.
[24:17.280 -> 24:18.400] I had no idea.
[24:18.400 -> 24:20.680] I was just deluding myself.
[24:20.680 -> 24:22.520] And then we did one with ER nurses.
[24:22.520 -> 24:24.040] And I go, oh, we love nurses.
[24:24.040 -> 24:28.000] Man, if you realize what they do on an hourly basis,
[24:28.000 -> 24:30.000] it's like, how do they not go crazy?
[24:30.000 -> 24:33.000] You know, you talk about PTSD or whatever,
[24:33.000 -> 24:35.000] I mean, it's like, it's just one thing after the other.
[24:35.000 -> 24:38.000] This curtain and a kid lost his arm and this curtain
[24:38.000 -> 24:40.000] and the old lady hasn't having a heart attack.
[24:40.000 -> 24:42.000] You know, it's like, how do they do that?
[24:42.000 -> 24:44.000] But what I loved about it is at the end of it,
[24:44.000 -> 24:45.600] people would actually understand nurses. You know, it's like, how do they do that? But what I loved about it is at the end of it,
[24:45.600 -> 24:48.480] people would actually understand nurses.
[24:48.480 -> 24:52.160] You know, like with military, when people go up
[24:52.160 -> 24:54.560] and they thank people for their service,
[24:54.560 -> 24:56.920] if they read that book, they would understand what the hell
[24:56.920 -> 24:58.200] they're thanking him for.
[24:58.200 -> 25:00.240] And even with the autobiography, I mean, you know,
[25:00.240 -> 25:02.560] you get Stephen King going, well, Patterson can't write.
[25:02.560 -> 25:03.480] Well, fuck him.
[25:03.480 -> 25:04.960] Read the book.
[25:04.960 -> 25:05.000] He actually can write, you know? So I mean, that's well, Patterson can't write. Well, fuck him, read the book.
[25:05.000 -> 25:06.560] He actually can write, you know.
[25:06.560 -> 25:07.960] So, but that's a little piece of it,
[25:07.960 -> 25:10.320] just to change the way people perceive different things.
[25:10.320 -> 25:12.040] Let me just dive in and ask you about criticism like that.
[25:12.040 -> 25:14.520] How do you deal with everyone having an opinion
[25:14.520 -> 25:15.360] about your writing?
[25:15.360 -> 25:17.560] Because again, it's great advice for our listeners
[25:17.560 -> 25:19.080] who maybe struggle with that.
[25:20.080 -> 25:20.920] It's fine.
[25:20.920 -> 25:22.120] I don't, you know, it's healthy, it's useful.
[25:22.120 -> 25:24.760] I mean, you hope that it's just not too, you know,
[25:24.760 -> 25:29.520] unnecessarily nasty, but the way the world is now, it's just going to happen.
[25:30.080 -> 25:35.200] And that there's some truth to it. And as long as there is, I'm cool with it. And, you know,
[25:35.200 -> 25:39.280] with King, you know, I read a lot of his stuff. I think he's a good writer. What can I say?
[25:40.000 -> 25:43.520] But have you had to go on a journey to get to that place, James? I mean,
[25:44.480 -> 25:46.800] no, you've always been okay with criticism and...
[25:46.800 -> 25:52.240] Yeah, good criticism. Yeah, no, I don't suffer fools terribly well. So, I mean,
[25:52.240 -> 25:56.800] I wasn't a big fan of school. I was, as I said, I wanted to get out, so I was always a good student.
[25:56.800 -> 26:03.040] But I don't know, even college I found to be kind of a bore. And I did well, but it was just like,
[26:03.040 -> 26:05.360] really? Seriously, dude dude I don't know yeah
[26:05.360 -> 26:09.920] graduate school a little better you mentioned you know Walter Sullivan
[26:09.920 -> 26:14.040] whatever who you know basically said you know you can do this you can do it at a
[26:14.040 -> 26:20.680] high level and that was useful but I kind of vaguely knew that anyway but it
[26:20.680 -> 26:24.720] was it still was still was helpful as hard as teachers work do you think that
[26:24.720 -> 26:30.960] in 2022 the way we educate our children is is right our schools current modern schools fit for purpose?
[26:30.960 -> 26:33.060] I think it could be a lot better than it is
[26:33.060 -> 26:37.120] I think there's too many people at the top making too many rules that don't make sense
[26:37.120 -> 26:40.820] Yeah, you got to be real about look you got kids here. Let's be real
[26:40.820 -> 26:45.240] I've got these 20 kids or 30 kids in front of me, and I've got to keep it interesting
[26:45.240 -> 26:46.240] for them.
[26:46.240 -> 26:50.760] You know, with the reading, I think it's really important that kids read.
[26:50.760 -> 26:55.920] You know, I have a kid's imprint here in America, and our mission, I think it's smart and simple,
[26:55.920 -> 26:59.600] but when a kid finishes a Jimmy book, they'll say, please give me another book.
[26:59.600 -> 27:01.060] How simple could it be?
[27:01.060 -> 27:06.000] But in terms of the books we're going to pick and whatever, that's the mission.
[27:06.000 -> 27:10.400] And if we don't think it's a book the kids are going to read, and they're not dumb books,
[27:10.400 -> 27:14.180] but they're books you read and you go, that was a cool book, I want another book, as opposed
[27:14.180 -> 27:18.520] to at least in this country, millions of kids who say, I've never read a book I liked.
[27:18.520 -> 27:19.520] That's silly.
[27:19.520 -> 27:25.720] And why in schools, you know, look, Shakespeare, I mean, you just can't throw people into Shakespeare.
[27:25.720 -> 27:27.080] You know, you gotta, I,
[27:28.840 -> 27:30.800] I was trying to explain this in some little class
[27:30.800 -> 27:35.140] about Shakespeare, and I literally stood up in a seat,
[27:35.140 -> 27:36.520] and I said, look, you gotta understand
[27:36.520 -> 27:37.780] like the environment here.
[27:37.780 -> 27:39.720] Like, we're in London, and it's really weird
[27:39.720 -> 27:40.840] that there are this many theaters,
[27:40.840 -> 27:42.880] because it wasn't true around, anywhere around the world,
[27:42.880 -> 27:44.620] maybe a little bit in Paris.
[27:44.620 -> 27:46.440] But these theaters are like crazy.
[27:46.440 -> 27:48.720] I mean, people are drinking and they're loud.
[27:48.720 -> 27:51.520] And so these actors got to get everybody's attention.
[27:51.520 -> 27:53.880] So they're going to, that's why I'm going to shout this out,
[27:53.880 -> 27:55.320] this little thing from Macbeth.
[27:55.320 -> 27:57.440] I'm going to shout out that first half page.
[27:57.440 -> 27:59.400] And you got to, here's the scene
[27:59.400 -> 28:00.720] that Shakespeare's got to write for.
[28:00.720 -> 28:02.520] All these people, they don't want to,
[28:02.520 -> 28:04.160] whatever they're doing and they're kissing
[28:04.160 -> 28:08.680] and they're drinking and whatever the hell, But he's got to get their attention. So understand
[28:08.680 -> 28:13.160] that about, you know, now I'm going to tell you a little bit of history just so you vaguely
[28:13.160 -> 28:17.360] kind of understand. Not too much, just enough so that you're not going to get too lost.
[28:17.360 -> 28:21.680] And the other thing is you might notice around the room here I've put in all these phrases
[28:21.680 -> 28:26.400] and stuff up on the wall, okay? Phrases, words, whatever.
[28:26.400 -> 28:27.800] Here's the weird thing, okay?
[28:27.800 -> 28:30.000] And this is the cool thing about Shakespeare.
[28:30.000 -> 28:32.900] He invented all of these words and all these fronts.
[28:32.900 -> 28:35.200] He literally invented those friggin' words.
[28:35.200 -> 28:38.700] And if you think about words, everything I'm saying,
[28:38.700 -> 28:41.900] everything you say, somebody invented that word.
[28:41.900 -> 28:43.100] Isn't that weird?
[28:43.100 -> 28:45.160] Somebody actually thought it up and said,
[28:45.160 -> 28:48.400] this is the word for dog food, whatever.
[28:48.400 -> 28:51.440] Pick whatever you want to pick, dog, puppy, whatever.
[28:51.440 -> 28:53.720] Somebody invented that.
[28:53.720 -> 28:55.800] But that Shakespeare invented all this stuff.
[28:55.800 -> 28:56.640] Isn't that cool?
[28:56.640 -> 28:58.920] So anyway, so I got the kids for the moment.
[28:58.920 -> 29:01.880] And then maybe they'd listen to the Shakespeare stuff.
[29:01.880 -> 29:02.720] I don't know.
[29:02.720 -> 29:04.840] But kids, teachers, to some extent,
[29:04.840 -> 29:06.320] they just got to be real about what we're doing. It just can't be, you got to do this because we're listen to the Shakespeare stuff. I don't know. But kids, you know, teachers, to some extent, they just got to be real about what we're
[29:06.320 -> 29:07.320] doing.
[29:07.320 -> 29:10.200] It just can't be, you got to do this because we're going to do a test, and then the state
[29:10.200 -> 29:11.400] is going to do a test.
[29:11.400 -> 29:12.840] And who cares?
[29:12.840 -> 29:19.320] So I don't think that's working very well.
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[31:29.540 -> 31:31.740] I want to keep the conversation about
[31:31.740 -> 31:33.220] that period in your life.
[31:33.220 -> 31:35.700] And I want to just roll forwards to when you went
[31:35.700 -> 31:37.260] to therapy, if you're happy to talk about that.
[31:37.260 -> 31:39.340] And you write in your brilliant book,
[31:39.340 -> 31:41.380] you said, my poor dad had his own tough issues
[31:41.380 -> 31:43.820] and probably felt he was doing the best he could.
[31:43.820 -> 31:48.240] The year of therapy helped me understand I was lovable, not because I was first in my
[31:48.240 -> 31:54.280] class, not because I was as successful as hell, but because I was me.
[31:54.280 -> 31:57.960] I would love you to talk to us a bit about that, because we have people struggling with
[31:57.960 -> 31:58.960] that.
[31:58.960 -> 32:00.680] Well, I mean, you've kind of laid it out.
[32:00.680 -> 32:02.520] I mean, that's, yeah, that's the reality.
[32:02.520 -> 32:06.000] I was very lucky, and I wasn't even looking to go into therapy.
[32:06.000 -> 32:10.000] And I just, it was another situation and I met this guy and he said,
[32:10.000 -> 32:12.000] well, I wouldn't mind talking to you a little bit.
[32:12.000 -> 32:14.000] And we actually became friends.
[32:14.000 -> 32:18.000] At the end, after about a year, I said, you know, I've made some stuff here
[32:18.000 -> 32:20.000] and I'm pretty comfortable with it.
[32:20.000 -> 32:23.000] And after that, we used to go out to lunch like once a month.
[32:23.000 -> 32:25.120] I didn't feel necessarily
[32:25.120 -> 32:31.780] that I needed it, but it was really, really useful for me to come to grips with any anger
[32:31.780 -> 32:35.460] issues that I'd have. You sit there in a New York cab or something and you get mad
[32:35.460 -> 32:39.300] at the cabbie for something. You go like, wait a minute, what the hell is that? And
[32:39.300 -> 32:48.160] what I figured ultimately was that a lot of that was my dad, who used to get real mad
[32:48.160 -> 32:52.680] and he cursed a lot and stuff like that. And I go, that's not me, that's him. And that
[32:52.680 -> 32:57.520] was helpful. And that notion of once again, who's the core person? And, you know, I think
[32:57.520 -> 33:04.120] I'm a decent human being. I try to do the right thing most of the time. You know, have
[33:04.120 -> 33:06.680] a sense of trying to be funny within reason
[33:06.680 -> 33:10.120] and compassionate when it's appropriate.
[33:10.120 -> 33:12.000] And I'm going through stuff.
[33:12.000 -> 33:15.440] All families now, my sisters are whatever, there's some sickness.
[33:15.440 -> 33:18.360] And you got to deal with it.
[33:18.360 -> 33:20.560] So I think the family was very useful there.
[33:20.560 -> 33:24.560] And I think the therapy, it was good for a year or so.
[33:24.560 -> 33:27.280] And I'm not saying that it needs to be a year sometimes it's less
[33:27.280 -> 33:31.320] sometimes it's a lot more than that. So can you share any specific tricks or
[33:31.320 -> 33:36.360] tips that you picked up in therapy that you still use today then James? I don't
[33:36.360 -> 33:41.200] remember anything in particular but it was just a change in my point of
[33:41.200 -> 33:46.040] view why I was doing certain things. If I would, you know, if I would get angry
[33:46.040 -> 33:47.340] about something that was inappropriate,
[33:47.340 -> 33:50.480] I'd go like, oh, that's just that thing with my dad.
[33:50.480 -> 33:54.320] And also not to blame him.
[33:54.320 -> 33:56.280] This is my situation, but, you know,
[33:56.280 -> 33:58.120] not to blame him for stuff.
[33:58.120 -> 34:00.320] He did have, you know, he grew up, as I said,
[34:00.320 -> 34:04.060] in a poor house and took a bunch of crap in his life
[34:04.060 -> 34:06.480] and, you know, drank more than he needed to,
[34:06.480 -> 34:10.320] etc. So there were issues with them that I'm not gonna not to
[34:10.320 -> 34:14.920] hold that against him. One of the things and this was, it's in
[34:14.920 -> 34:20.040] the book. And this is also I think, useful for people to
[34:20.040 -> 34:25.840] consider. I had a house down on the ocean, and I was in advertising,
[34:25.840 -> 34:27.840] and I had to go back one Sunday,
[34:27.840 -> 34:30.840] and I was in the Garden State, and it was, like, wall to wall.
[34:30.840 -> 34:33.340] It was, like, going, like, seven miles an hour,
[34:33.340 -> 34:34.840] heading back to New York.
[34:34.840 -> 34:35.840] And I'm hating it.
[34:35.840 -> 34:37.840] I'm going, like, man, I just left the beach,
[34:37.840 -> 34:39.840] and it was great, and the sun was shining,
[34:39.840 -> 34:42.840] and I'm going back to do this stupid advertising meeting,
[34:42.840 -> 34:44.840] which I don't really want to do.
[34:44.840 -> 34:45.640] I definitely don't want to do.
[34:45.640 -> 34:49.880] I definitely don't want to leave the shore.
[34:49.880 -> 34:50.800] And I'm watching.
[34:50.800 -> 34:53.320] And on the other side of the road, about every 10,
[34:53.320 -> 34:55.240] 15 seconds, one car would go by.
[35:00.240 -> 35:03.000] And I'm watching, and I'm watching, and I'm watching.
[35:03.000 -> 35:05.800] And at a certain point, and this is one of those eureka moments,
[35:05.800 -> 35:08.660] I mean, literally eureka moment for me,
[35:09.560 -> 35:14.560] it dawned on me that my life was going in the wrong direction.
[35:15.240 -> 35:17.520] I didn't need to be on that lane
[35:17.520 -> 35:20.700] going back to New York City to do advertising.
[35:20.700 -> 35:23.320] I needed to get on the other side of the road,
[35:23.320 -> 35:28.000] literally get on the other side of the road with those cars that are going by.
[35:28.000 -> 35:31.000] And that was the point where I basically said,
[35:31.000 -> 35:33.000] no, I'm getting out of advertising.
[35:33.000 -> 35:36.000] I'm going to write books for a living.
[35:36.000 -> 35:37.000] Boom.
[35:37.000 -> 35:38.000] Just like that.
[35:38.000 -> 35:42.000] And I had a meeting a couple of weeks after that with the guy that ran Thompson,
[35:42.000 -> 35:50.080] and he was saying, you know, you could run it all, the whole world. I'm going like, yeah, you know, he said, I don't know if I said this, but he said
[35:50.080 -> 35:54.960] that one of my lines was, I'm making a lot on books now. I can't afford to work for J. Walter
[35:54.960 -> 36:04.960] Thompson anymore. I don't know, whatever. But that thing of examining your life somehow, which is
[36:04.960 -> 36:05.920] really hard to do
[36:05.920 -> 36:08.240] because we get into these habit ruts, you know,
[36:08.240 -> 36:10.000] and those are dangerous and they're tricky
[36:10.000 -> 36:11.340] and they're hard to get out of.
[36:11.340 -> 36:13.200] There was a philosopher, I think it was Locke,
[36:13.200 -> 36:15.920] and I'm going to, you know,
[36:15.920 -> 36:18.440] sort of fuck up his reputation with this,
[36:18.440 -> 36:21.400] but the basic notion was you're in this habit rut
[36:21.400 -> 36:25.400] and you keep walking it the same way every day.
[36:25.400 -> 36:30.440] And the rut keeps getting deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.
[36:30.440 -> 36:36.520] And at a certain point, it's so deep that you no longer can have any stimulation.
[36:36.520 -> 36:41.080] You cannot get out of the rut because you're getting no stimulation.
[36:41.080 -> 36:43.960] And that's, I think, a lot what happens to a lot of us.
[36:43.960 -> 36:48.960] We keep getting into this rut and we get deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and we cut off all
[36:49.360 -> 36:51.200] Stimulation that would get us out of the rut
[36:51.200 -> 36:57.160] I've heard it described James's the only difference between the roots and a grave is the size of the hole. I think
[36:59.000 -> 36:59.800] Right
[36:59.800 -> 37:01.800] So can I ask you about another?
[37:01.840 -> 37:07.400] Damascus moment or a Eureka moment as you described it in the book when your first love Jane
[37:08.320 -> 37:16.760] you write really beautifully about that relationship and there was one particular moment where you described going into a really posh restaurant and
[37:17.520 -> 37:24.320] The experience where she said James you belong here and it really intrigued me about imposter syndrome
[37:24.640 -> 37:26.160] Well, that's it. Yeah well that's yeah that's
[37:27.200 -> 37:33.200] you know I'm from the sticks and Jane you know more of an upper middle class kind of an
[37:33.200 -> 37:38.880] upbringing and she wanted to take me to this very fancy French restaurant in New York and which she
[37:38.880 -> 37:45.000] loved and I was uptight,
[37:45.000 -> 37:49.000] because I really didn't know how to operate that well
[37:49.000 -> 37:51.000] in this French restaurant.
[37:51.000 -> 37:53.000] And she was great.
[37:53.000 -> 37:56.000] And she would never make fun, she would never...
[37:56.000 -> 38:00.000] And she did this very privately so it wouldn't bother people around.
[38:00.000 -> 38:04.000] And she'd ordered some stew, French stew, whatever,
[38:04.000 -> 38:07.280] and she just took her face and she put it down in the stew.
[38:07.280 -> 38:10.120] And then she came up with all this goop on her face.
[38:10.120 -> 38:13.040] And she said, look, this is our restaurant.
[38:13.040 -> 38:14.160] This is us.
[38:14.160 -> 38:16.760] We don't care about anybody else.
[38:16.760 -> 38:17.840] And she wasn't, you know, nobody,
[38:17.840 -> 38:19.160] it wasn't gonna bug anybody else.
[38:19.160 -> 38:20.520] She was very, you know,
[38:20.520 -> 38:22.760] didn't want to ruin anybody else's dinner.
[38:22.760 -> 38:29.040] But she made that point of, yeah, that's right, it is right it is this is our place we're here we're not gonna bother other
[38:29.040 -> 38:34.360] people but and that's important that you get comfortable and not get
[38:34.360 -> 38:38.480] afraid of whatever the hell it is. So what advice could you offer to our
[38:38.480 -> 38:44.080] listeners then about overcoming that those fears of not fitting in or not
[38:44.080 -> 38:45.000] being good enough.
[38:45.000 -> 38:48.000] Yeah, try not to give two shits about it.
[38:48.000 -> 38:50.000] Just go through your life. It's okay. You're fine.
[38:50.000 -> 38:53.000] And if it doesn't work, then who cares?
[38:53.000 -> 38:57.000] It's like I golf more than I should,
[38:57.000 -> 38:59.000] and I get with people and they're always so like,
[38:59.000 -> 39:02.000] oh, man, I'm afraid I'm going to hit a bad shot.
[39:02.000 -> 39:05.560] Nobody cares. You're the only person that cares. Nobody cares if to hit a bad shot. Nobody cares. You're the only person that cares.
[39:05.560 -> 39:07.480] Nobody cares if you hit a bad shot.
[39:07.480 -> 39:10.200] We might break your chops, but we're going to make fun of you.
[39:10.200 -> 39:11.760] But we don't really care.
[39:11.760 -> 39:13.360] All we care about is what we're doing.
[39:13.360 -> 39:14.640] So just don't care so much.
[39:14.640 -> 39:16.360] It's just not a big deal.
[39:16.360 -> 39:19.080] People really get twisted up about stuff.
[39:19.080 -> 39:21.600] And it's not useful.
[39:21.600 -> 39:25.160] It's just like what's going on with the Ukraine now.
[39:25.160 -> 39:28.180] Look, you can contribute.
[39:28.180 -> 39:30.960] You could, and there are lots of ways to contribute.
[39:30.960 -> 39:32.880] You can contribute to small towns there.
[39:32.880 -> 39:35.960] You can, you know, you could go over there if you really want to.
[39:35.960 -> 39:39.920] You know, I have a friend who went over, a journalist, older, and he went over to, you
[39:39.920 -> 39:40.920] know.
[39:40.920 -> 39:42.560] But if you're not going to do anything, don't sit there.
[39:42.560 -> 39:44.320] It's a beautiful day, you know what I mean?
[39:44.320 -> 39:47.400] Don't beat yourself up all day if it's not going to do anything, don't sit there. It's a beautiful day. You know what I mean? Don't beat yourself up all day if it's not going to help.
[39:47.400 -> 39:49.720] People do that all the time.
[39:49.720 -> 39:51.920] Yes, there's terrible things happening in the world.
[39:51.920 -> 39:54.640] There have always been terrible things happening in the world.
[39:54.640 -> 39:56.800] And do what you can do.
[39:56.800 -> 39:58.840] And then, yeah, it's a nice day.
[39:58.840 -> 40:01.200] Hey, I'm going to look at the sky.
[40:01.200 -> 40:02.080] Wow.
[40:02.080 -> 40:05.120] I'm going to count the clouds for 10 minutes, you know?
[40:05.120 -> 40:07.960] James, whether it's elite soldiers,
[40:07.960 -> 40:10.200] whether it's current or former presidents,
[40:10.200 -> 40:12.040] whether it's singers like Dolly Parton,
[40:12.040 -> 40:13.200] actors like Tom Cruise,
[40:13.200 -> 40:15.640] you have spent so much of your life
[40:15.640 -> 40:18.200] with people who the outside world considers
[40:18.200 -> 40:20.040] to be incredibly successful.
[40:20.040 -> 40:21.960] Do they still carry these doubts,
[40:21.960 -> 40:24.520] these imposter syndromes, these fears, these worries?
[40:24.520 -> 40:29.120] The imposter thing, you know, I don't know, some do, some don't about that.
[40:29.120 -> 40:32.480] I think at times in my life I've had a little sense of an imposter thing.
[40:32.480 -> 40:37.360] I don't think I have it now, or maybe I do, but I'm not aware of it anymore.
[40:37.360 -> 40:41.780] I think that President Clinton and Dolly both have, you know, a nice amount of confidence
[40:41.780 -> 40:43.960] in themselves, obviously.
[40:43.960 -> 40:45.280] On the other hand, I mean, you know,
[40:45.280 -> 40:48.880] Dolly will always play with the idea of the dumb blonde
[40:48.880 -> 40:51.720] and she's anything but, you know, she's very,
[40:51.720 -> 40:53.520] she's very bright, she's very quick,
[40:53.520 -> 40:56.320] she's really a good business person.
[40:56.320 -> 40:57.760] And really, really nice.
[40:57.760 -> 41:01.600] She, at one point when we were doing the book
[41:01.600 -> 41:04.400] and Rolling Stone said, we'll give you a cover.
[41:04.400 -> 41:06.000] And they said, but we don't want Jim and
[41:06.480 -> 41:09.320] She said no, I I won't go on the cover without Jim
[41:09.600 -> 41:14.080] That's just the way she is which is which is great. And what did that mean to you?
[41:14.080 -> 41:17.480] I didn't surprise me, but it encouraged me
[41:17.480 -> 41:22.820] I mean part of it and I'll get this again and again because everybody not everybody most people love her and they go
[41:22.820 -> 41:26.640] I hope she's like that in real life. And she is like that in real life.
[41:26.640 -> 41:29.360] You know, she's a character, she's got a fast tongue,
[41:29.360 -> 41:31.640] she's funny, she's not full of herself,
[41:31.640 -> 41:34.280] but she's very confident in her abilities.
[41:34.280 -> 41:36.120] And I think, you know, President Clinton
[41:36.120 -> 41:38.840] is similar that way, I think I'm similar that way.
[41:38.840 -> 41:40.880] I think that people, the real imposters
[41:40.880 -> 41:43.400] are the ones that, you know, like to pretend.
[41:43.400 -> 41:45.400] You know what bank I'm the president of?
[41:45.400 -> 41:46.560] Not really.
[41:46.560 -> 41:47.400] Do I give a shit?
[41:47.400 -> 41:48.240] I don't know.
[41:50.000 -> 41:51.480] Every once in a while, and this,
[41:51.480 -> 41:53.440] I really try to bite my tongue.
[41:53.440 -> 41:55.960] My thing in restaurants is I just want to be treated
[41:55.960 -> 41:58.600] the way I would expect you to treat all customers.
[41:59.920 -> 42:02.000] And probably about once a year,
[42:02.000 -> 42:04.120] you get some shit treatment somewhere
[42:07.560 -> 42:10.120] and you wind up saying, do you know who I am? And I wanna kill myself when I do that.
[42:10.120 -> 42:12.240] James, can I ask you about what I would consider
[42:12.240 -> 42:14.520] to be a bit of a superpower that you have,
[42:14.520 -> 42:18.600] which is you have this sort of detached curiosity
[42:18.600 -> 42:21.000] that I think from when you described it
[42:21.000 -> 42:22.400] the psychiatric hospital,
[42:22.400 -> 42:25.060] and even like when you first started in advertising
[42:25.060 -> 42:30.760] You were almost like a reluctant outsider into that world because you wanted to be a writer
[42:31.000 -> 42:38.400] But I think yeah, there's something really quite powerful for people to understand when it comes to high performance how to observe
[42:38.400 -> 42:40.600] I don't know that there are any rules
[42:41.200 -> 42:43.200] honestly other than
[42:44.120 -> 42:46.800] Understanding who you are and following that within reason
[42:46.800 -> 42:49.900] and maxing your strength and minimizing your weaknesses.
[42:49.900 -> 42:54.660] But even when I was in school, I never was in cliques.
[42:54.660 -> 42:55.980] I was cool with the nerds.
[42:55.980 -> 42:57.300] I was cool with the smart kids.
[42:57.300 -> 43:00.120] I was cool with the jocks, within reason.
[43:00.120 -> 43:02.620] But I wasn't in the clique.
[43:02.620 -> 43:05.240] So I never had to like, I got to act in this clique way
[43:05.240 -> 43:08.480] because this is how all the cool jocks act, you know?
[43:08.480 -> 43:12.360] Or down here, well, you know, I better get a Bentley
[43:12.360 -> 43:14.920] because everybody here seems to have a Bentley.
[43:14.920 -> 43:16.560] I, you know, I don't care.
[43:16.560 -> 43:17.520] Bentleys are beautiful.
[43:17.520 -> 43:19.600] I don't want one myself, but they're really,
[43:19.600 -> 43:22.840] they're really nice looking cars, but they're not for me.
[43:22.840 -> 43:25.400] So, you know, no cliques, I don't know. It's useful for me. So, you know, no clicks. I don't know.
[43:25.400 -> 43:26.840] It's useful for me.
[43:26.840 -> 43:28.360] And you said detached, and I think
[43:28.360 -> 43:30.680] that's a little piece of it.
[43:30.680 -> 43:32.560] I'm really impressed with President Clinton,
[43:32.560 -> 43:35.000] but I'll tell you this quick.
[43:35.000 -> 43:40.400] So it's in the book, too, but it's such a cute story.
[43:40.400 -> 43:44.520] We went out golfing, and they said,
[43:44.520 -> 43:45.560] I'll only play nine holes.
[43:45.560 -> 43:46.240] I said, yeah, great.
[43:46.240 -> 43:46.840] I don't care.
[43:46.840 -> 43:49.000] We can just go in a putt and green.
[43:49.000 -> 43:50.120] I'm happy with that.
[43:50.120 -> 43:51.600] So I get to the third or the fourth hole,
[43:51.600 -> 43:52.600] and I figure golfing up.
[43:52.600 -> 43:55.720] And he had about an eight-foot putt for birdie.
[43:55.720 -> 44:01.400] And you don't leave short putts short in golf.
[44:01.400 -> 44:05.160] And he left the eight-foot putt about four foot short. And I turned to him, and I said, you pussy. And he left the eight foot putt about four foot short.
[44:05.160 -> 44:07.600] And I turned to him and I said, you pussy.
[44:07.600 -> 44:09.960] And he said, you just call me a pussy?
[44:09.960 -> 44:10.800] I said, yeah.
[44:10.800 -> 44:13.240] He said, well, you're right, I am a pussy.
[44:13.240 -> 44:15.280] And that established,
[44:15.280 -> 44:17.720] I don't use the word pussy in the book,
[44:17.720 -> 44:20.760] but that established the two of us
[44:20.760 -> 44:22.840] as human beings and whatever.
[44:22.840 -> 44:30.960] And we knew we could talk to each other and joke and he could make fun of me and I could make fun of him. In public, it's Mr. President and blah,
[44:30.960 -> 44:35.200] which is great and appropriate, you know. And all of this, James, goes back to one of your
[44:35.200 -> 44:40.560] early jobs at McLean Hospital, where you said in your book that you learned to handle responsibility
[44:41.120 -> 44:47.680] responsibly. It felt, when reading that, that that was where you understood the human connection and that still remains
[44:48.080 -> 44:52.120] Something that's so important to today. It feels like we're losing a lot of that in the modern world
[44:52.320 -> 44:56.680] That was it. Yeah, that was a really great experience for me on a lot of levels
[44:57.240 -> 44:59.840] one of them was just sanity and
[45:00.640 -> 45:04.420] Whatever people who have you know, psychiatric problems?
[45:04.880 -> 45:05.000] That was a piece of it. Another piece of it was and whatever, people who have, you know, psychiatric problems.
[45:05.000 -> 45:07.000] That was a piece of it.
[45:07.000 -> 45:11.000] Another piece of it was it was a really upscale place.
[45:11.000 -> 45:15.000] You know, a lot of the people, not all, but a lot of them had money.
[45:15.000 -> 45:17.000] The doctors were mostly from Harvard.
[45:17.000 -> 45:22.000] So it was useful for me to experience things that I hadn't experienced
[45:22.000 -> 45:25.040] because where I grew up, it was very, it was a real small town.
[45:25.040 -> 45:28.280] And this was a big town.
[45:28.280 -> 45:30.400] And plus that opportunity to read things,
[45:30.400 -> 45:33.040] you know, like I mentioned Jean Genet,
[45:33.040 -> 45:34.840] you know, Our Lady of the Flowers and stuff like that.
[45:34.840 -> 45:37.200] You go like, okay, this dude is thinking
[45:37.200 -> 45:38.880] a little differently than me.
[45:38.880 -> 45:41.360] And that's good because, you know,
[45:41.360 -> 45:43.400] yeah, people have different approaches
[45:43.400 -> 45:44.560] and different views of the world.
[45:44.560 -> 45:51.720] And you don't necessarily get that in a small town, where even if they do, they kind of keep it to themselves, you know.
[45:51.720 -> 45:57.720] But I kind of got the impression from that that you, you learn to value the fact that all jobs can shape your career.
[45:57.720 -> 46:01.720] And I wonder whether in this world, we should take entry level jobs more seriously,
[46:01.720 -> 46:07.000] and we should all have that open mind that you might not be where you really really want to be.
[46:07.080 -> 46:09.660] Where you are can still help you get there.
[46:10.220 -> 46:20.040] Yeah no and and and and and also um there's no particular reason that businesses have to get into this habit of just torturing the shit out of people.
[46:22.120 -> 46:23.280] when they're entry level. You know, I mean, there's a certain,
[46:23.280 -> 46:25.400] yeah, pay your dues within reason,
[46:25.400 -> 46:29.400] but let's keep it human and civilized and whatever.
[46:29.400 -> 46:31.800] Well, this is the way it was when I went in there.
[46:31.800 -> 46:32.640] You hated it, right?
[46:32.640 -> 46:33.660] Yeah, I hated it.
[46:33.660 -> 46:36.460] Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.
[46:38.560 -> 46:41.660] Like doctors, man, interns and stuff.
[46:41.660 -> 46:42.880] I'm in a hospital, man.
[46:42.880 -> 46:44.440] I don't want this dude to come in here and go,
[46:44.440 -> 46:47.000] I've been 40, 42 hours in a hospital, man, I don't want this dude to come in here and go, I've been 40, 42 hours in a row.
[46:47.000 -> 46:49.000] Great, now get out of this room,
[46:49.000 -> 46:50.640] because I don't want to, I don't want some.
[46:50.640 -> 46:51.900] So why do we do it then?
[46:53.400 -> 46:56.480] You know, habit, habit, and that's one of the things,
[46:56.480 -> 46:58.840] we need to just question stuff, hold it,
[46:58.840 -> 47:01.560] why are we doing this, is it relevant anymore,
[47:01.560 -> 47:03.200] should this change?
[47:03.200 -> 47:04.600] You've spoken fairly powerfully
[47:04.600 -> 47:05.280] about the influence
[47:05.280 -> 47:07.480] your family have had on you, James.
[47:07.480 -> 47:10.600] What messages and lessons would you hope to pass
[47:10.600 -> 47:13.960] onto your son so that when he talks about you,
[47:13.960 -> 47:16.280] what kind of things would you like him to say?
[47:16.280 -> 47:20.080] The opening the door things is a huge thing with Jack.
[47:20.080 -> 47:24.080] Another piece of it is, and I mention this in the book,
[47:24.080 -> 47:25.680] it's probably not totally accurate,
[47:25.680 -> 47:30.240] but the first time I remember my father giving me a hug was on his deathbed.
[47:30.240 -> 47:36.400] And with Jack, every day that he was here from when he was a little kid, and we would drop him
[47:36.400 -> 47:41.040] off, I'd give him a hug, you know, and drop him off at school. And he was comfortable with it.
[47:41.040 -> 47:49.900] It's like, okay, fine. He gives me a hug. It's all right. I'm used to it. And if the kids go, your dad gave you a hug, you go, yeah. So, you
[47:49.900 -> 47:53.740] know, trying to be comfortable in your own skin, maxing out your talents, being,
[47:53.740 -> 47:57.980] you know, understanding kind of what you do particularly well, what you don't do
[47:57.980 -> 48:02.020] as well. I'll tell you, when he was young, he went off to prep school, which we
[48:02.020 -> 48:05.440] didn't really want him to do, but he wanted to do it. And it was probably an OK.
[48:05.920 -> 48:10.880] But when he was with us, he was the funniest little bastard in the world.
[48:10.880 -> 48:12.880] He was so funny and clever.
[48:16.000 -> 48:18.960] Yukiki had been a writer for Saturday Night Live when he was like 12.
[48:20.320 -> 48:22.800] And they took the funny out of him in prep school.
[48:22.800 -> 48:24.000] They just beat it out of him.
[48:24.000 -> 48:24.960] How the hell they did.
[48:24.960 -> 48:25.240] And all of a sudden, they said, Jack, you used know, they just beat it out. I don't know how the hell he did.
[48:25.240 -> 48:26.480] And all of a sudden it's a check.
[48:26.480 -> 48:28.040] He used to be so funny.
[48:28.040 -> 48:28.860] What happened?
[48:28.860 -> 48:30.120] I don't know.
[48:30.120 -> 48:32.040] But a lot of that stuff, you know,
[48:32.040 -> 48:34.840] understanding who you are, that core thing,
[48:34.840 -> 48:38.360] which I think is vital for people to get to that thing
[48:38.360 -> 48:40.100] and get comfortable with it.
[48:40.100 -> 48:42.360] And as I said before, that little thing of, you know,
[48:42.360 -> 48:44.840] sometimes it's going to be your avocation
[48:44.840 -> 48:46.600] that they get you through the day.
[48:46.600 -> 48:49.220] You just, you have to take a job that,
[48:49.220 -> 48:50.440] you know, it's not optimum.
[48:50.440 -> 48:51.800] So it goes, you know.
[48:51.800 -> 48:54.480] James, we've reached the point in our conversation
[48:54.480 -> 48:56.860] where we move on to some quickfire questions.
[48:56.860 -> 48:58.680] The first one of which is,
[48:58.680 -> 49:01.600] the three non-negotiables
[49:01.600 -> 49:05.000] that you and the people around you need to buy into?
[49:05.000 -> 49:10.000] You know, I'm just not big on elitism. I'm not big on phonies.
[49:10.000 -> 49:14.000] I think it's also better if you did that, you know, life is so complicated.
[49:14.000 -> 49:16.000] You have to make it simple.
[49:16.000 -> 49:19.000] So if you can take three and make it two, or if you can make it one,
[49:19.000 -> 49:21.000] all to the good.
[49:21.000 -> 49:25.100] If you could go back to any moment of your life what would it be and why? I
[49:25.100 -> 49:31.300] think like everybody you'd like to be able to whatever wisdom you've gathered
[49:31.300 -> 49:37.340] whatever you've figured out some of the money and then be 30 that'd be cool
[49:37.340 -> 49:41.720] I could I could I think I'd probably get in some trouble though so it wouldn't be
[49:41.720 -> 49:46.080] good and I you know Sue it's I mean, I'm very lucky.
[49:46.080 -> 49:50.920] As I say, Sue and I, we go to bed every night holding hands, and that's accurate.
[49:50.920 -> 49:57.800] And if Sue ever left me, I'm going with her.
[49:57.800 -> 50:03.720] So that's another, I mean, that's obviously another important thing, who you're with and
[50:03.720 -> 50:05.240] do you need to be with somebody.
[50:05.240 -> 50:08.280] And a lot of people do.
[50:08.280 -> 50:15.400] And how you find that person, how you balance off, figure out who the hell you are, what's
[50:15.400 -> 50:18.080] wrong with you, what's right with you.
[50:18.080 -> 50:28.000] And I think when you find somebody who really is, you should feel like, I'm so lucky to have found this person and I'm not fucking it up.
[50:28.200 -> 50:29.600] I'm just not going to mess it up.
[50:29.800 -> 50:34.800] I'm just, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not saying that line because no.
[50:35.000 -> 50:37.000] How important is Legacy to you?
[50:37.200 -> 50:45.000] Yeah, I mean, if it's useful to the family, fine, you know, but mostly you just want to be, you know, as I said, I mean,
[50:45.000 -> 50:49.200] to some extent, writing the book, and I know it's a good book,
[50:49.200 -> 50:51.600] and I know some of the others that I've written are good.
[50:51.600 -> 50:54.600] Some aren't, some aren't, aren't very good at all.
[50:54.600 -> 50:57.000] But, you know, half a dozen or whatever, they're good,
[50:57.000 -> 50:59.200] and they created X number of characters.
[50:59.200 -> 51:02.200] And you just want people to, within reason, be fair about it.
[51:02.200 -> 51:03.200] That's all, you know.
[51:03.200 -> 51:06.160] So, right right now but legacy
[51:07.200 -> 51:12.320] doesn't mean anything to me. What advice would you give to a teenage James just starting out?
[51:12.320 -> 51:18.640] The one thing I will draw your attention to is if you're nodding your head don't pay that much
[51:18.640 -> 51:23.440] attention because you already know that you know some of the things that I'm taking for granted now
[51:26.560 -> 51:27.520] know that. You know, some of the things I'm taking for granted now about, you know, confidence,
[51:32.640 -> 51:33.280] you know, being comfortable in your own skin. I don't think I was even close when I was a teenager.
[51:37.920 -> 51:38.480] And it took a while. As I said, part of it was Jane, part of it, you know, my grandmother helped,
[51:45.580 -> 51:48.280] but even there, you know, because kids are cruel. They're always trying to beat you down and whatever, and don't listen to them.
[51:48.280 -> 51:51.220] And finally, James, your one golden rule
[51:51.220 -> 51:54.140] for how to live a high-performance life.
[51:54.140 -> 51:55.140] How would you, what would you like
[51:55.140 -> 51:56.640] to leave people with for that?
[51:57.660 -> 52:00.420] It is the know thyself.
[52:00.420 -> 52:03.040] You know, you just, you got to be somewhat realistic
[52:03.040 -> 52:05.580] about who you are and and go with it
[52:05.940 -> 52:09.440] As I said about the 280 pounds ballerina, you know
[52:09.900 -> 52:15.700] Probably not gonna I don't know or maybe you can but it's gonna be difficult to get on Broadway with it
[52:15.700 -> 52:17.860] but that doesn't mean you can't dance and
[52:18.500 -> 52:20.500] finding that passion and
[52:20.820 -> 52:24.580] Somehow bringing it into line with with with your your skill set
[52:25.000 -> 52:25.500] James it's been a such an interesting hour to sit and talk to you and somehow bringing it into line with your skill set.
[52:27.980 -> 52:29.020] James, it's been such an interesting hour to sit and talk to you.
[52:29.020 -> 52:31.660] You're so wise, and I get this sort of sense
[52:31.660 -> 52:34.120] that maybe you're also quite a different person,
[52:34.120 -> 52:35.620] the one that's sitting before us now
[52:35.620 -> 52:37.220] to the one that we would have spoken to
[52:37.220 -> 52:38.740] before you had that year of therapy
[52:38.740 -> 52:42.740] and you were able to really reflect and become comfortable.
[52:42.740 -> 52:44.140] Yeah, it could be, for sure.
[52:44.140 -> 52:45.280] Thank you so much for your time.
[52:49.040 -> 52:49.720] Damien.
[52:49.720 -> 52:50.560] Jake.
[52:50.560 -> 52:52.080] He is a wise man.
[52:52.080 -> 52:55.040] He's a wise man and also someone who is,
[52:55.040 -> 52:57.280] feels so sure of himself,
[52:57.280 -> 52:59.480] which is a place that so many people are keen to get to.
[52:59.480 -> 53:00.600] Yeah, I think that,
[53:00.600 -> 53:03.800] that truism he kept coming back to about know yourself,
[53:03.800 -> 53:11.520] know yourself, just increase your self-awareness, open, open yourself up to feedback, to curiosity, to experiences.
[53:11.520 -> 53:13.960] James Patterson is the product of that.
[53:13.960 -> 53:18.400] And I really loved that story actually about his, when he spoke about his first love, who's,
[53:18.400 -> 53:22.600] who's no longer with us, obviously. And he says that she just, you know, dipped her face
[53:22.600 -> 53:28.880] in that bowl and said, this is our place, this is ours. That is such a good metaphor for life, to have that mindset that this,
[53:28.880 -> 53:31.360] we belong here, man, this is us, this is where we should be.
[53:31.360 -> 53:33.960] I think it's so important for people to feel like that.
[53:33.960 -> 53:35.000] Yeah, definitely.
[53:35.000 -> 53:38.520] And then you think like in the way that he then spoke about the way he spoke to
[53:38.520 -> 53:42.480] Bill Clinton on the golf course, that's a man that just thinks I should be here.
[53:42.480 -> 53:44.320] I'm not second guessing myself.
[53:44.320 -> 53:47.600] I'm going to treat you in the way that I would treat anybody.
[53:47.600 -> 53:50.760] You know, like he also then said about the restaurants
[53:50.760 -> 53:53.640] he goes into, just treat me the same as everybody else.
[53:53.640 -> 53:56.700] That's a man that is entirely comfortable in his own skin.
[53:56.700 -> 53:59.920] And like you say, that's a name for all of us to get to.
[53:59.920 -> 54:02.020] He's a master storyteller as well.
[54:03.200 -> 54:04.400] There's brilliant that, isn't there?
[54:04.400 -> 54:05.840] I love the simplicity of it.
[54:05.840 -> 54:08.320] I remember many years ago as a kid,
[54:08.320 -> 54:11.600] meeting a phenomenal coach called Jimmy Murphy,
[54:11.600 -> 54:13.560] who was Matt Busby's assistant.
[54:13.560 -> 54:16.080] And he did an old exercise where he threw us a tennis ball
[54:16.080 -> 54:17.120] and he said, catch it.
[54:17.120 -> 54:17.960] And I caught it.
[54:17.960 -> 54:19.880] He said, I was out, he said it was easy.
[54:19.880 -> 54:22.560] So then he threw two, and then he threw three and four,
[54:22.560 -> 54:23.440] and finally five.
[54:23.440 -> 54:26.020] And on the last occasion, you couldn't catch any of them.
[54:26.020 -> 54:28.600] So what Jimmy Murphy was saying to us in that meeting
[54:28.600 -> 54:31.260] was that what great coaches do
[54:31.260 -> 54:33.020] is before they walk into that meeting,
[54:33.020 -> 54:34.600] they're really clear about the message
[54:34.600 -> 54:36.320] that they want you to walk away with.
[54:36.320 -> 54:37.980] They're not throwing lots of information
[54:37.980 -> 54:39.700] and hoping some sticks.
[54:39.700 -> 54:42.180] They're giving you the focus message
[54:42.180 -> 54:43.980] that they want you to take away and understand.
[54:43.980 -> 54:47.160] And that was what James was talking about, the art of advertising,
[54:47.160 -> 54:51.280] but equally the art of pitching to Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton to come and
[54:51.280 -> 54:52.120] write a book with him.
[54:52.200 -> 54:55.720] What's the one message you want them to walk away and engage with?
[54:55.960 -> 54:58.760] And it comes back to what he said at the end there about the power of simplicity.
[54:58.840 -> 55:03.320] And my final sort of thought from that is the fact that he just goes to
[55:03.720 -> 55:04.960] president Clinton and says,
[55:04.960 -> 55:08.960] let's write a book or goes to Dolly Parton and wants to write a book. I know that people can
[55:08.960 -> 55:13.840] easily go, well, he's James Patterson. Yeah, but it was that thought that made him into the James
[55:13.840 -> 55:18.720] Patterson that we see today, that not just thinking big, but thinking big with a kind of,
[55:19.920 -> 55:26.840] a real belief that it will happen and a kind of sanguine approach to listen, this is the pitch, this is the idea,
[55:26.840 -> 55:29.360] this is where I'm going, come along if you want.
[55:29.360 -> 55:31.200] And sometimes I think that can be really powerful
[55:31.200 -> 55:33.920] for people, you know, he doesn't set himself short,
[55:33.920 -> 55:35.560] he just sells himself as he is
[55:35.560 -> 55:37.760] and people are attracted to that.
[55:37.760 -> 55:40.720] Yeah, I remember once working with a brilliant coach
[55:40.720 -> 55:43.040] in rugby league, a guy called Tony Smith.
[55:43.040 -> 55:44.440] And when he took over at a team,
[55:44.440 -> 55:48.580] he gave one of the best opening speeches I've ever heard of a coach. He just said
[55:48.580 -> 55:54.140] I'm going to be really successful, do you want to come along with me? And it was so
[55:54.140 -> 55:58.180] compelling that players wanted to be a part of it and then he could outline his
[55:58.180 -> 56:02.180] standards and what he expected from them. But that sense of confidence of
[56:02.180 -> 56:06.080] projecting it onto others, like you say, it's a compelling
[56:06.080 -> 56:07.080] mixture.
[56:07.080 -> 56:12.960] I think confidence and self-belief and a real understanding of who you are is a highly attractive
[56:12.960 -> 56:17.120] mix, isn't it? Damien, thank you so much, mate. I really enjoyed that. We have had James
[56:17.120 -> 56:21.640] Patterson, the best-selling author in the history of the world on the High Performance
[56:21.640 -> 56:22.640] Podcast. Wow.
[56:22.640 -> 56:27.360] Yeah. And he was swearing and speaking to us like he probably would do if we were down
[56:27.360 -> 56:30.720] in the pub with him, and that felt a real privilege.
[56:30.720 -> 56:33.840] Absolutely, top man, I loved it. I got told off by James Patterson.
[56:37.680 -> 56:41.600] Okay, it's time to chat to another of our High Performance listeners. We've got a really nice
[56:41.600 -> 56:47.800] message from a young lady called Jasmine, saying, I'm a primary school teacher. I've always loved sports and one of my friends
[56:47.800 -> 56:51.600] told me about this podcast. He thought I'd like it. And since then, I love this bit.
[56:51.600 -> 56:55.580] I can't stop telling people about the high performance podcast. Woohoo. I've always had
[56:55.580 -> 57:00.340] a naturally positive energy. I look for the best in situations and try to see the perspective
[57:00.340 -> 57:04.960] in challenging moments. I'm continually learning new things from the podcast and constantly
[57:04.960 -> 57:06.400] being inspired by the messages and the stories. I use continually learning new things from the podcast and constantly being inspired by the messages
[57:06.400 -> 57:07.240] and the stories.
[57:07.240 -> 57:09.820] I use the quotes and inspiration every day at school
[57:09.820 -> 57:11.960] with the children, the parents and my colleagues
[57:11.960 -> 57:13.500] and love seeing the impact this has.
[57:13.500 -> 57:15.220] And when I hear children talking positively
[57:15.220 -> 57:17.660] about a situation, controlling the controllables,
[57:17.660 -> 57:20.020] working on the world-class basics, being resilient
[57:20.020 -> 57:22.220] and having a greater perspective on situations,
[57:22.220 -> 57:23.080] it makes me so happy.
[57:23.080 -> 57:25.560] And I'm so thankful to the high performance team
[57:25.560 -> 57:26.720] for the impact that they've had.
[57:26.720 -> 57:29.120] And Jasmine joins us now from the airport
[57:29.120 -> 57:30.680] where she's about to fly off on holiday.
[57:30.680 -> 57:32.760] So thanks for letting us disturb something
[57:32.760 -> 57:35.320] far more important than talking to us.
[57:35.320 -> 57:37.440] No, thank you so much for having me.
[57:37.440 -> 57:38.280] You know what?
[57:38.280 -> 57:40.000] I love this because for us to sit
[57:40.000 -> 57:41.600] and have these conversations is one thing.
[57:41.600 -> 57:42.760] For you to hear them,
[57:42.760 -> 57:44.720] even if one person listens to high performance,
[57:44.720 -> 57:49.440] we're delighted, but then to pass the stuff on to the next generation, to the children
[57:49.440 -> 57:55.280] in the primary school where you work, that is so, so brilliant for us. So thank you so much, Jasmine.
[57:55.280 -> 57:56.880] Jasmine Garner That's all right, thank you.
[57:56.880 -> 57:59.600] Jason Vale So when did you first sort of start
[57:59.600 -> 58:04.400] thinking, actually, this podcast resonates with me, I can, I can, I can get down with this.
[58:04.400 -> 58:09.040] Jasmine Garner So I didn't start listening for about a year. I didn't know about it. And then my friend
[58:09.040 -> 58:13.720] Dave, he was like, you've got to listen to this podcast. Cause I love having a DMC, a
[58:13.720 -> 58:19.000] deep meaningful chat. And he was like, you'll really like this. So I started listening and
[58:19.000 -> 58:23.760] then I had a year to catch up on, which was amazing. And then as soon as I started listening,
[58:23.760 -> 58:28.520] I thought, yeah, this is definitely something that I can use all the time. I literally have a notes section
[58:28.520 -> 58:32.880] in my phone where I like write down the quotes that I like from it. And yeah, straight away,
[58:32.880 -> 58:33.880] I just loved it.
[58:33.880 -> 58:37.120] Jason Vale So which was the interview that really resonated
[58:37.120 -> 58:38.120] initially for you, Jasmine?
[58:38.120 -> 58:41.040] Jasmine Oh, there are so many. It's really hard. When
[58:41.040 -> 58:45.680] I was writing my email, I was trying to do a top three and I ended up with a top 10.
[58:45.680 -> 58:46.800] Jason Valey, MPH
[58:46.800 -> 58:49.440] Well, what were the first three on the 10?
[58:49.440 -> 58:50.440] Lucy Sullivan
[58:50.440 -> 58:53.680] Oh, I can't remember. One that's maybe a bit unusual that maybe not as many people have
[58:53.680 -> 59:01.640] listened to is Steve Salas. I think because it was like an education background as well
[59:01.640 -> 59:06.120] and all about like normalizing failure and the empathy and the kindness that really
[59:06.120 -> 59:09.400] like came through to me. And that's something that I try and like live out on a daily basis
[59:09.400 -> 59:11.640] of the children. So definitely that one.
[59:11.640 -> 59:12.640] Jason Vale Which other ones?
[59:12.640 -> 59:16.160] Sarah McGrath So Billy Munger, I think is a massive inspiration,
[59:16.160 -> 59:21.880] definitely. And just how when he said that he knew it wasn't his fault that was what
[59:21.880 -> 59:25.720] happened, but it was his responsibility how he reacted. I try and
[59:25.720 -> 59:29.760] talk to the children about that all the time because they have so many things that happen
[59:29.760 -> 59:33.960] in the playground, which is obviously the biggest thing in their little world. That
[59:33.960 -> 59:37.360] is like the most important thing to them. But it's just trying to teach them that actually
[59:37.360 -> 59:43.080] like how you react is your responsibility and you're sort of in control of that. Johnny
[59:43.080 -> 59:45.960] Wilkinson I had to listen to twice because it was so deep.
[59:45.960 -> 59:46.960] Yeah, so did I.
[59:46.960 -> 59:54.020] Phil Neville, Tom Daley, honestly, there's so many. I feel like I just get something
[59:54.020 -> 59:55.200] different from all of them.
[59:55.200 -> 01:00:00.200] And what would you say is the best way of passing this stuff on? Because I think sometimes
[01:00:00.200 -> 01:00:03.360] people look at seven, eight year olds and go, oh, well, they, they don't need to hear
[01:00:03.360 -> 01:00:06.880] about high performance. They're only children. But we think the opposite. We think
[01:00:06.880 -> 01:00:11.200] like you, that this is the perfect age to share it with them. So what's the most effective
[01:00:11.200 -> 01:00:15.720] way of getting these kinds of conversations into those little brains of theirs?
[01:00:15.720 -> 01:00:21.120] I think the first thing is just that you've got to really be, I just try and be the positive
[01:00:21.120 -> 01:00:28.000] energy that surrounds them. So that, because they look up to you, they look around up to ond rhaid i mi fod yn y gynhyrchion positif sy'n eu cymryd, oherwydd maen nhw'n edrych arnoch chi, maen nhw'n edrych ar bob adolyg, bob person,
[01:00:28.000 -> 01:00:33.000] bob person sy'n gweld pobol ffotograff ar y TV, maen nhw'n edrych arnyn nhw'n hollol amser.
[01:00:33.000 -> 01:00:39.000] Felly mae'n ymwneud â'r gynhyrch positif hwnnw, a'r cymryd ar gyfer cyfeillgarwch, rwy'n credu,
[01:00:39.000 -> 01:00:43.000] dyna'r peth pwysig mwyaf. Ac yna, gwneud y gwirionedd ac yn ddiogel,
[01:00:43.000 -> 01:00:45.160] a dweud, rwy'n gwneud pwysicau'n hollol amser, ac rwy'n hapus i roi ymlaen yno, And then just being open and honest and saying, I make mistakes all the time and I'm happy
[01:00:45.160 -> 01:00:48.360] to stand there and say, yeah, I got that maths question wrong.
[01:00:48.360 -> 01:00:52.680] And just sort of just setting that example and having those conversations about mistakes
[01:00:52.680 -> 01:00:58.160] or how, how you move on from things, how important it is to be kind and just sort of those conversations
[01:00:58.160 -> 01:00:59.160] in daily life.
[01:00:59.160 -> 01:01:01.440] Paul Keeley So you must have had an inspirational teacher
[01:01:01.440 -> 01:01:07.740] yourself. Whenever we hear of inspirational teachers, I'm always intrigued as to who lit the fire for you.
[01:01:07.740 -> 01:01:13.740] Yes. So I've actually wanted to be a primary school teacher since I was tiny, when I sat
[01:01:13.740 -> 01:01:19.500] down all my teddies and my sister and did the register for the first time. But I had
[01:01:19.500 -> 01:01:23.220] inspirational primary school teachers. I had someone called Miss Sparks in year one. I
[01:01:23.220 -> 01:01:30.240] was a really shy child. I was always confident in who I was and in myself, I'm always positive, but in front of other
[01:01:30.240 -> 01:01:34.480] people, I was really shy. And she just sort of like gave me that confidence. She really understood
[01:01:34.480 -> 01:01:39.280] me. And I've been very fortunate that I've been surrounded by good teachers, good family,
[01:01:39.280 -> 01:01:46.080] good friends throughout my whole life. So yeah, I'm very lucky. I love that. Well, thank you so, so much for chatting to us.
[01:01:46.080 -> 01:01:46.800] Thanks, Jasmine.
[01:01:46.840 -> 01:01:48.440] Thank you so much for talking to me.
[01:01:50.520 -> 01:01:54.680] So that's it. Look, as always, huge, huge thanks goes to you for growing and
[01:01:54.680 -> 01:01:58.000] sharing this podcast among your community. Before we leave you,
[01:01:58.000 -> 01:01:59.680] I'd just like to ask you one thing, please.
[01:02:00.240 -> 01:02:03.760] I only want you to pass this podcast to one person, just one,
[01:02:04.480 -> 01:02:08.560] one person that you think could grow from this, could learn from this, could understand a bit more from this.
[01:02:08.560 -> 01:02:11.520] That's the single biggest thing that you can do to support us.
[01:02:11.520 -> 01:02:16.320] Don't worry about the High Performance Plus or the Circle or the books or the tours or anything like that.
[01:02:16.320 -> 01:02:19.120] I just want people hearing this content.
[01:02:19.120 -> 01:02:21.840] I want people growing from these conversations.
[01:02:21.840 -> 01:02:25.240] So please, please continue to spread the learnings
[01:02:25.240 -> 01:02:27.440] that you're taking from this series.
[01:02:27.440 -> 01:02:29.880] Thanks as well to Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio,
[01:02:29.880 -> 01:02:32.480] to Hannah, to Will, to Eve, and to Gemma,
[01:02:32.480 -> 01:02:34.080] and finally to you.
[01:02:34.080 -> 01:02:35.680] Remember, there is no secret.
[01:02:35.680 -> 01:02:37.180] It is all there for you.
[01:02:37.180 -> 01:02:38.920] So chase world-class basics.
[01:02:38.920 -> 01:02:41.120] Don't get high on your own supply.
[01:02:41.120 -> 01:02:44.440] Remain humble, curious, and empathetic.
[01:02:44.440 -> 01:02:45.240] And we'll see you very
[01:02:45.240 -> 01:02:45.560] soon.
[01:03:02.390 -> 01:03:04.390] you