Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 27 Jun 2022 00:00:00 GMT
Duration:
1:05:02
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Jos Buttler is a professional cricketer and currently the best white-ball batsmen in the world. In the recent Indian Premier League, Jos enjoyed one of the best forms in history as he ended the 2022 season with an aggregate score of 863 runs in 17 games, earning himself the Most Valuable Player award.
Jos was also part of the England team that won the infamous 2019 Cricket World Cup and made the run-out during the Super Over which sealed victory in the final.
In this episode we speak to Jos about the underrated power of the introvert, how he learnt to juggle rejection, what his biggest failures have taught him and how journaling has transformed his mindset.
- - - - - -
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**Navigating Life's Challenges with Authenticity and Resilience: A Conversation with Cricketer Jos Buttler**
In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, host Jay Comfrey engages in a candid conversation with cricketer Jos Buttler, a player known for his exceptional batting skills and his journey through the ups and downs of professional sports. Buttler shares his insights on authenticity, mental well-being, and the power of introspection.
**Key Takeaways:**
- **Authenticity as the Foundation of High Performance:** Jos emphasizes the importance of being true to oneself, both on and off the field. He believes that authenticity leads to better decision-making and allows athletes to perform at their best.
- **Learning from Failures and Setbacks:** Buttler reflects on a challenging period in his career when he struggled with self-doubt and pressure. He highlights the importance of learning from failures, filtering advice, and trusting one's own instincts.
- **The Power of Introspection and Journaling:** Jos discusses the benefits of journaling and self-reflection. He finds that writing down his thoughts and emotions helps him gain perspective and overcome negative mindsets.
- **Balancing External Pressure with Internal Focus:** Buttler acknowledges the pressure that comes with being a professional athlete, especially in a sport like cricket. He emphasizes the need to focus on the things within one's control and to let go of external expectations.
- **Finding Joy and Playfulness in the Game:** Jos stresses the importance of reconnecting with the pure joy and love for the game. He believes that this playful mindset can help athletes overcome pressure and perform at their best.
- **The Importance of Mental Well-being:** Buttler highlights the growing awareness and importance of mental well-being in sports. He encourages athletes to seek support when needed and to prioritize their mental health.
- **Embracing the IPL and Its Impact on English Cricket:** Jos expresses his admiration for the Indian Premier League (IPL) and its positive influence on English cricket. He believes that the IPL has helped English players develop their skills and gain valuable experience.
**Memorable Quotes:**
- "I think everyone's running their own race... I think everyone has sort of got their own story." - Jos Buttler
- "High performance is authenticity. I think that's one of the key words that I feel like I've learned over time about being the best version of myself." - Jos Buttler
- "I certainly built that series up to be much more than I'd ever built any series up before with playing Australia... And I took myself away from what I'm good at." - Jos Buttler on the 2015 Ashes series
- "I think the way I learn now, like I said at the start, how I'm more comfortable with agreeing or disagreeing with, with something... I think at the start, I sort of in a thirst for information, you know, almost took too much on board and sort of that clouded myself and I believed everything I thought." - Jos Buttler on his approach to learning
- "I'd say really recently at the IPL, so I had a brilliant first half, first seven games that went, you know, exceeded all my expectations, and then suddenly I got to the point where, you know, there's a bit more noise on the outside." - Jos Buttler on dealing with pressure during the IPL
- "I think that's actually something I worked on. I came across a performance coach at the IPL, a guy called Anand Cholani, and the conversation actually started talking about the chipping yips and like how I could sort of get rid of the chipping yips in my golf. But in time, we came around to cricket and we sort of did a bit on sort of self-awareness and sort of what is actually me." - Jos Buttler on working with a performance coach
- "The big thing we came back to is, is a playful kid. Now, 11-year-old self who played the game because he loved it, loved the social element of it, loved hitting a ball, loved trying to hit sixes and all those things, and trying to reconnect with that." - Jos Buttler on reconnecting with his love for the game
# "The High-Performance Podcast" with Jos Buttler: A Journey of Introversion, Rejection, Failure, and Transformation
## Summary:
In this episode of "The High-Performance Podcast," Jos Buttler, a professional cricketer, shares his insights on the power of introversion, the art of handling rejection, the lessons learned from failures, and the transformative impact of journaling.
### Key Insights:
1. **Embracing Introversion:** Jos Buttler identifies as an introvert and acknowledges that it can be challenging to navigate a world that often values extroversion. However, he emphasizes that introversion can be a source of strength, allowing for deep introspection and focused concentration.
2. **Rejection as a Learning Opportunity:** Buttler reflects on his experiences with rejection, particularly during his early cricketing career. He highlights the importance of viewing rejection not as a setback but as an opportunity for growth and self-improvement.
3. **Learning from Failures:** Buttler candidly discusses his failures, acknowledging that they have been instrumental in shaping his mindset and resilience. He emphasizes the significance of embracing failures, learning from them, and using them as stepping stones towards success.
4. **The Power of Journaling:** Buttler reveals his practice of journaling as a tool for self-reflection and personal growth. He explains how journaling helps him process his thoughts, emotions, and experiences, leading to a deeper understanding of himself and his journey.
5. **The Importance of Process:** Buttler emphasizes the value of focusing on the process rather than solely on the outcome. He believes that by concentrating on the steps and actions necessary to achieve a goal, individuals can cultivate a sense of control and resilience, even in the face of uncertainty.
6. **Authenticity and Identity:** Buttler discusses the balance between maintaining his authentic self and adopting a certain persona on the cricket field. He highlights the importance of staying true to one's values and identity while also adapting to the demands of the game.
7. **Mentorship and Advice:** Buttler acknowledges the role of mentors and advisors in his journey. He emphasizes the value of seeking guidance and support from individuals who have experience and expertise in the field.
8. **Exploration and Curiosity:** Buttler stresses the importance of exploration and curiosity in both cricket and life. He believes that embracing change, experimenting with different approaches, and challenging conventions can lead to innovation and growth.
9. **Introversion as a Strength in Leadership:** Buttler challenges the notion that introversion is a hindrance to leadership. He believes that introverted leaders can provide a sense of stability, consistency, and thoughtful decision-making in a team environment.
10. **Creating a Positive Team Culture:** Buttler shares his experiences in the England white-ball team under the leadership of Eoin Morgan. He highlights the importance of creating a team culture that fosters trust, open communication, and a commitment to a shared vision.
## Conclusion:
Jos Buttler's journey as a professional cricketer and his experiences with introversion, rejection, failure, and transformation offer valuable lessons for individuals seeking to achieve high performance in their respective fields. His emphasis on embracing one's authentic self, learning from setbacks, and cultivating a growth mindset provides a blueprint for personal and professional success.
## Summary of the High Performance Podcast Episode with Jos Buttler: The Power of the Introvert and Embracing Failure
**Synopsis:**
This episode of the High Performance Podcast features Jos Buttler, a professional cricketer and one of the world's best white-ball batsmen. Buttler shares his insights on the underrated strength of introverts, the art of switching off from professional life, and the importance of embracing failure and using it as a catalyst for growth.
**Key Points:**
* **The Power of the Introvert:** Buttler emphasizes the often-overlooked strengths of introverts, highlighting their ability to detach themselves from the outcome and focus on the process. He believes that introverts can bring a unique perspective to team environments, as they are less likely to be swayed by external pressures and can maintain a consistent and positive mindset.
* **Switching Off from Professional Life:** Buttler acknowledges the challenges of disconnecting from the demands of professional sports, especially in an era of constant connectivity and social media presence. He emphasizes the importance of finding activities that allow for mental escape and relaxation, such as reading, watching movies, or engaging in hobbies. Buttler also highlights the value of spending time with family and loved ones to create a sense of balance and perspective.
* **Embracing Failure:** Buttler stresses the significance of viewing failure as an opportunity for growth and learning. He shares his experience of being dropped from the England cricket team in 2015 and how it ultimately led him to develop a stronger mindset and a renewed appreciation for the game. Buttler believes that embracing failure and using it as a catalyst for improvement is crucial for achieving long-term success.
* **Balance in Life:** Buttler emphasizes the importance of balance in all aspects of life, including physical, mental, tactical, and technical aspects. He believes that finding the right balance allows individuals to optimize their performance and maintain a healthy and fulfilling lifestyle.
**Overall Message:**
Jos Buttler's appearance on the High Performance Podcast highlights the importance of embracing one's strengths, finding balance, and using failures as opportunities for growth. He encourages listeners to recognize the value of introversion, prioritize mental well-being, and maintain a positive and resilient mindset in the face of challenges.
[00:00.000 -> 00:07.440] Hey there, I'm Jay Comfrey and this is High Performance, our gift to you for free every
[00:07.440 -> 00:08.800] single week.
[00:08.800 -> 00:12.440] This is the movement that reminds you it's within.
[00:12.440 -> 00:15.620] Your ambition, your purpose, your story, it's all within.
[00:15.620 -> 00:19.640] We just help you unlock it by turning the lived experiences of the planet's highest
[00:19.640 -> 00:22.200] performers into your life lessons.
[00:22.200 -> 00:25.380] So right now, please allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes,
[00:25.380 -> 00:27.940] an expert in high-performing team cultures,
[00:27.940 -> 00:29.900] to speak to the greatest leaders, thinkers,
[00:29.900 -> 00:32.900] sports stars, and entrepreneurs on the planet
[00:32.900 -> 00:34.900] so they can be your teacher.
[00:34.900 -> 00:37.420] If you can, please rate and review this podcast.
[00:37.420 -> 00:40.300] It really is the very best way to support us.
[00:40.300 -> 00:42.860] It helps spread the word about high performance.
[00:42.860 -> 00:44.220] And please remember this podcast
[00:44.220 -> 00:47.220] isn't about high achievement or high success. It word about high performance. I'm pleased to remember this podcast isn't about high achievement or high success
[00:47.520 -> 00:53.880] It's about high happiness. It's about high self-worth. It's about taking you closer to a life of fulfillment
[00:54.620 -> 00:57.200] Empathy and understanding today
[00:57.800 -> 00:59.080] this
[00:59.080 -> 01:01.080] awaits you
[01:01.080 -> 01:05.800] We went to Dubai to play against Pakistan and I dropped a pretty regulation catch down
[01:05.800 -> 01:10.000] the leg and just looking for the ground to swallow me up and get me out of here.
[01:10.000 -> 01:12.200] I just finding it too tough in a way.
[01:12.200 -> 01:16.400] And of course, as a professional sportsman, you never want to admit that you need a break
[01:16.400 -> 01:18.200] or you need to be left out of the team.
[01:18.200 -> 01:24.000] But at that sense, it came with a lot of relief because I knew something had to change.
[01:24.000 -> 01:26.520] And I'm in a way, you know, felt like I shouldn't be selected.
[01:26.520 -> 01:31.800] And sort of as just through performance, I think, you know, I just felt like I
[01:31.800 -> 01:33.920] wasn't warranting my place in the team.
[01:35.240 -> 01:39.280] The version of myself that isn't as good as when I sort of try and please people.
[01:39.360 -> 01:44.520] I try and think, I try and do what I believe is what other people want me to do.
[01:45.400 -> 01:47.880] Sharing a dressing room with men your whole life,
[01:47.880 -> 01:50.480] a lot of guys are quite closed books.
[01:51.040 -> 01:55.240] Having two children now who have no idea really what I do,
[01:55.240 -> 01:57.800] that certainly gives a great perspective.
[01:57.800 -> 02:00.720] They just, you come home or you get off the field
[02:00.720 -> 02:02.280] and you've got a video there and you think,
[02:02.280 -> 02:04.160] okay, it doesn't matter that much.
[02:05.000 -> 02:07.520] I spend a lot of time worrying about the, you know, worrying about the next day
[02:07.520 -> 02:11.000] and sort of thinking what if it goes wrong, but certainly in the last few years,
[02:11.000 -> 02:14.360] especially tried to flip that into, well, what if tomorrow is a great day?
[02:17.640 -> 02:22.320] This is a fascinating conversation with one of the elite sports people on the planet.
[02:22.320 -> 02:25.180] He was the best player in the IPL over the last few months. You could argue that for the last few months, he's been the most informed crick people on the planet. He was the best player in the IPL over the last few months
[02:25.180 -> 02:29.240] You could argue that for the last few months. He's been the most informed cricketer on the planet
[02:29.460 -> 02:33.220] He's just picked up his hundred and fiftieth cap with the one day England team
[02:33.820 -> 02:39.820] However, we're going to talk as well in this conversation about disappointments about what it's like to be dropped by the England test side
[02:40.100 -> 02:45.860] About the strength he needs when he's at the crease or he's under pressure or he feels like the whole world is watching.
[02:45.860 -> 02:47.380] But the area that I really enjoyed
[02:47.380 -> 02:49.440] delving deeply with Joss on
[02:49.440 -> 02:52.140] was the power of the introvert,
[02:52.140 -> 02:55.080] the underrated power of the introvert.
[02:55.080 -> 02:57.060] And I have got a quiet son
[02:57.060 -> 03:01.040] and my son is so strong, so smart, so bold,
[03:01.040 -> 03:04.880] so brave, so powerful, yet quiet.
[03:04.880 -> 03:08.760] And people look at Sebastian and assume that he's weak,
[03:08.760 -> 03:12.040] and he's not a leader, and he's easily led.
[03:12.040 -> 03:13.400] He's none of those things.
[03:13.400 -> 03:15.080] And it's time to change the conversation
[03:15.080 -> 03:17.720] when it comes to the fact that leaders have to be loud.
[03:17.720 -> 03:19.640] Leaders don't have to be loud,
[03:19.640 -> 03:22.120] because quiet leaders are the ones who listen.
[03:22.120 -> 03:25.280] Quiet leaders are the ones who consider things deeply. They're the ones who are humble. leaders are the ones who consider things deeply.
[03:25.280 -> 03:26.560] They're the ones who are humble.
[03:26.560 -> 03:28.520] They're the ones who give credit to the team.
[03:28.520 -> 03:30.480] Think back to the loudest leaders you've had.
[03:30.480 -> 03:31.640] They're there because they're loud.
[03:31.640 -> 03:33.680] They're not there because they're necessarily good leaders.
[03:33.680 -> 03:36.280] And I tell you, I've worked with a few in my time
[03:36.280 -> 03:38.040] who I would never ever want to lead me
[03:38.040 -> 03:40.160] or lead my teams ever again.
[03:40.160 -> 03:42.840] Reluctant leaders are there on their actions,
[03:42.840 -> 03:43.760] not their words.
[03:44.880 -> 03:48.160] Introverted leaders are the ones that we should be looking to.
[03:48.160 -> 03:51.600] The quiet leaders are the ones who are making a real difference in the world,
[03:51.600 -> 03:55.240] and Joss Butler is a quiet leader.
[03:55.240 -> 03:56.840] He's softly spoken.
[03:56.840 -> 03:59.240] He doesn't want to brag about his own achievements.
[03:59.240 -> 04:04.200] He apologizes on a couple of occasions during the conversation for talking about himself.
[04:04.200 -> 04:08.100] Those are the kinds of leaders that I want in this world.
[04:08.100 -> 04:11.880] And as usual, this is a conversation with a cricketer,
[04:11.880 -> 04:14.340] but it's not a conversation about cricket.
[04:14.340 -> 04:17.020] It's not a conversation about sport.
[04:17.020 -> 04:19.980] This is a conversation about real life.
[04:19.980 -> 04:22.260] So I really hope you enjoy it.
[04:22.260 -> 04:23.900] I hope that it gets you closer
[04:23.900 -> 04:26.840] to your own version of high performance.
[04:26.840 -> 04:31.840] Today's episode with cricketer, Joss Butler comes next.
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[07:17.440 -> 07:24.000] Well, Joss, welcome to the High Performance Podcast.
[07:24.000 -> 07:25.680] Thanks very much. Thanks for having me on.
[07:25.680 -> 07:27.520] I'm really excited for it.
[07:27.520 -> 07:29.360] So you know what you're getting yourself in for then?
[07:29.360 -> 07:30.200] I think so, yeah.
[07:30.200 -> 07:33.000] I think I feel a bit sort of unworthy
[07:33.000 -> 07:34.520] with some of the guests you've had on,
[07:34.520 -> 07:37.600] but I certainly enjoy listening to it
[07:37.600 -> 07:40.200] and yeah, certainly taken some good lessons
[07:40.200 -> 07:42.600] from certain people I've listened to.
[07:42.600 -> 07:44.680] Before we start talking about you then,
[07:44.680 -> 07:45.740] because I think this is really interesting
[07:45.740 -> 07:47.340] for people to hear at home,
[07:47.340 -> 07:48.640] you know, people that aren't operating
[07:48.640 -> 07:51.340] at the elite level of global sport,
[07:51.340 -> 07:53.100] what have you taken from listening
[07:53.100 -> 07:55.900] to the High Performance Podcast?
[07:55.900 -> 07:58.440] I think that everyone's running their own race.
[07:58.440 -> 08:01.340] I think everyone has sort of got their own story,
[08:01.340 -> 08:04.240] has been through lots of very similar things
[08:04.240 -> 08:05.400] and lots of different similar things and in lots of
[08:05.400 -> 08:12.060] different sort of backgrounds, whether that be sport, business, in the army, you
[08:12.060 -> 08:16.440] sort of the same problems arise and the same sort of sometimes
[08:16.440 -> 08:19.880] struggles and they're just sort of packaged differently. That's how it sort
[08:19.880 -> 08:23.600] of comes across to me and I think there's some great lessons and
[08:23.600 -> 08:26.600] sometimes you know I think you can listen
[08:26.600 -> 08:28.160] and think you have to agree with everything,
[08:28.160 -> 08:30.760] but also, you know, it's actually that, you know,
[08:30.760 -> 08:32.680] I listen to someone and respect their opinion,
[08:32.680 -> 08:34.080] but actually think, you know what, for me,
[08:34.080 -> 08:37.000] that isn't quite how I would want to do it.
[08:37.000 -> 08:38.920] So it can confirm things that I believe
[08:38.920 -> 08:41.680] and also sort of confirm things that I don't believe.
[08:41.680 -> 08:44.280] So based on the episodes you've listened to,
[08:44.280 -> 08:47.040] the life that you've lived, the career that you've had,
[08:47.040 -> 08:48.940] as you sit here talking to us today,
[08:48.940 -> 08:52.280] what to you defines high performance?
[08:52.280 -> 08:54.120] Yeah, so obviously I've thought about that for a while
[08:54.120 -> 08:56.040] with this question, but I think for me,
[08:56.040 -> 08:58.240] high performance is authenticity.
[08:58.240 -> 08:59.760] I think that's one of the key words
[08:59.760 -> 09:02.120] that I feel like I've learned over time
[09:02.120 -> 09:04.600] about being the best version of myself.
[09:04.600 -> 09:08.920] And in whatever format that may be, you know, as obviously in, in sport, as
[09:08.920 -> 09:12.760] a professional cricketer, that is, you know, can I be the best version of myself?
[09:12.840 -> 09:16.740] Um, consistently every day for myself and my teammates.
[09:16.740 -> 09:20.340] And then of course, in, in home life as well, you know, now a father of two
[09:20.340 -> 09:24.200] young girls, you know, can I be an authentic dad, I think so, I think that's
[09:24.200 -> 09:25.880] a really sort of strong word for me,
[09:25.880 -> 09:29.560] and I think when I feel like I'm performing at my best,
[09:29.560 -> 09:31.240] I'm being myself.
[09:31.240 -> 09:33.560] So was there a period in your career,
[09:33.560 -> 09:35.600] and this is not a criticism of you,
[09:35.600 -> 09:36.920] but life is a process, right?
[09:36.920 -> 09:38.880] We change, we adapt, we evolve all the time.
[09:38.880 -> 09:40.240] Was there a period you can look back on now
[09:40.240 -> 09:41.520] and think, you know what,
[09:41.520 -> 09:44.760] that wasn't an authentic period in my career for me?
[09:44.760 -> 09:49.360] Yeah, I think so. And I think I can sort of feel myself sort of dipping in and out of
[09:49.360 -> 09:54.080] like what I feel is my best version and what I feel like isn't. And that's a constant process
[09:54.080 -> 09:59.440] still. And I think the version of myself that isn't as good is when I sort of try and please
[09:59.440 -> 10:04.640] people. I try and do what I believe is what other people want me to do or try and sort of in cricket
[10:04.640 -> 10:08.600] examples, like listen to a coach or a fellow player saying, you should do it like
[10:08.600 -> 10:10.160] this, you should play like this.
[10:10.160 -> 10:14.240] And I sort of go away from maybe how I certainly want to play.
[10:14.240 -> 10:18.560] The 2015 Ashes series was a big one for me in terms of that.
[10:18.560 -> 10:24.120] I certainly built that series up to be much more than I'd ever built any series up before
[10:24.120 -> 10:26.960] with playing Australia, all the history of Ashes series.
[10:26.960 -> 10:29.960] And I'd never experienced that build up before.
[10:29.960 -> 10:32.440] And I took myself away from what I'm good at.
[10:32.440 -> 10:36.000] I started to worry about the opposition a lot more, to worry about how I was
[10:36.000 -> 10:39.560] meant to prepare, trying to please certain people.
[10:39.560 -> 10:44.200] And I think that was a, I got left out of the team not long after that.
[10:44.200 -> 10:47.280] And when you get to those sort of low points, I think that was a, I got left out of the team not long after that. When you get to those low points,
[10:47.280 -> 10:53.280] I think that's generally where you can reflect and review and learn a lot about what went right
[10:53.280 -> 10:58.720] or wrong during that period. So tell us more about that period then, Jos, in terms of what
[10:58.720 -> 11:04.480] were the kind of messages you were hearing and what changes did you try and accommodate?
[11:04.480 -> 11:09.200] Yes, I think for me, Test cricket's always been the biggest challenge. I'm much more of a natural
[11:09.200 -> 11:13.600] white ball cricketer but certainly felt like I had the great potential in test cricket and I got
[11:13.600 -> 11:19.440] picked a lot on that potential. And I think a lot of people assumed I would play in a very similar
[11:19.440 -> 11:25.800] carefree attacking style but certainly I found that very difficult in test cricket, especially
[11:25.800 -> 11:32.880] in England. But going into that, Ash, it was just when Mitchell Johnson had been bowling
[11:32.880 -> 11:36.960] brilliantly well, obviously in the series before in Australia, Mitchell Stark, another
[11:36.960 -> 11:42.840] left armour, and I started to worry about how they were going to get me out. I'm going
[11:42.840 -> 11:45.080] to get out like this, I'm going to get out like that.
[11:45.960 -> 11:49.360] How should I counter it? People were telling me you can't play certain shots against these bowlers.
[11:49.360 -> 11:50.160] They're high risk.
[11:50.160 -> 11:51.080] That's how you're going to get out.
[11:51.080 -> 11:56.520] And I just got in a very negative mindset about the way I was going to go and play.
[11:56.520 -> 11:58.520] And I'm a wicketkeeper as well.
[11:58.520 -> 12:03.360] And I certainly felt, obviously in a cricket team, there's only one wicketkeeper.
[12:03.360 -> 12:05.120] And I certainly felt the pressure of that.
[12:05.120 -> 12:08.200] That was wicketkeeping, my weakest suit of the two.
[12:08.680 -> 12:11.800] And I'd worried about missing a chance or something, you know, there's obviously
[12:11.800 -> 12:13.240] 11 other guys who are going to bat.
[12:13.720 -> 12:18.280] And then when I was working on my batting, it was with a very negative mindset.
[12:18.280 -> 12:22.040] So I just took my eye off, off the right area and it actually turned out the
[12:22.040 -> 12:28.280] offspin and Nathan Lyon was the guy I had the most trouble with and he's the one I didn't spend as much time worrying about.
[12:28.280 -> 12:34.420] So what big lessons have you taken from that 2015 period of your life then that you've
[12:34.420 -> 12:38.540] mitigated to make sure you don't fall into that trap again?
[12:38.540 -> 12:43.820] Yeah I think again sort of the way you learn I think is a really important thing. I think
[12:43.820 -> 12:47.300] the way I learn now, like I said at the start, how I'm more
[12:47.300 -> 12:51.420] comfortable with agreeing or disagreeing with, with something, I think at the start,
[12:51.420 -> 12:56.140] I sort of in a thirst for information, you know, almost took too much on board
[12:56.140 -> 12:59.580] and sort of that clouded myself and I believed everything I thought, you know,
[12:59.800 -> 13:04.360] and at times, you know, with guys, like just because they have a name from the
[13:04.360 -> 13:08.380] sport and have done great things in the game, doesn't mean they're always
[13:08.380 -> 13:08.700] right.
[13:08.860 -> 13:12.420] And I think I fell in that trap of I'd listened to great players, talk about
[13:12.420 -> 13:17.100] what worked for them and believe I had to, to do that, but instead of having a
[13:17.100 -> 13:20.660] really good filter and sort of filtering through stuff that go, you know, that's
[13:20.660 -> 13:22.420] good for me, maybe that's not so good.
[13:22.920 -> 13:28.840] Uh, that confirms that this is my best way to prepare or my best thinking and so having the
[13:28.840 -> 13:33.440] discipline I think in learning I think that discipline is a word I tend to come
[13:33.440 -> 13:37.920] back to a lot and also balance you know sort of having nice balance. So just tell
[13:37.920 -> 13:41.680] us about the filters then of your listening now so tell us what are the
[13:41.680 -> 13:48.440] kind of questions you ask yourself that determines whether you're going to believe the message or whether you're
[13:48.440 -> 13:54.280] going to filter it and explore it? So I think it's having the humility to sort
[13:54.280 -> 13:57.320] of say you know opinions are only opinions and obviously there's certain
[13:57.320 -> 14:01.920] things that can be based around fact as well but I think one thing I sort of
[14:01.920 -> 14:05.520] have to do is have I listened to the argument? I think have I listened to it properly
[14:05.520 -> 14:07.720] or do I take that in?
[14:07.720 -> 14:10.820] Can I take that in with a balanced view, I guess?
[14:10.820 -> 14:14.040] And then actually taking more trust on myself
[14:14.040 -> 14:17.240] and saying, right, I've listened to that for five minutes
[14:17.240 -> 14:19.500] or whatever, I might try it in the net,
[14:19.500 -> 14:22.040] so I might sort of mull over it for a little while.
[14:22.040 -> 14:24.480] And then actually when I make a decision on something,
[14:24.480 -> 14:32.140] so if I've given it a balanced view for you then i got a trust my decision and actually sort of really feel like take the ownership over that and.
[14:32.460 -> 14:33.460] I'm not.
[14:33.720 -> 14:42.880] After that twenty fifteen ashes come way to around if i'm gonna fail i prefer to fail on my own terms and turn so instead of sort of being able to blame someone else.
[14:43.200 -> 14:45.600] instead of sort of being able to blame someone else. I love this idea of failing on your own terms.
[14:45.600 -> 14:49.700] And I'm reminded of a friend's son, in fact, my godson,
[14:49.700 -> 14:51.200] a young guy called George Herring,
[14:51.200 -> 14:54.000] a really passionate, very young cricketer.
[14:54.000 -> 14:57.000] And I think that he will be trying to filter at his age
[14:57.000 -> 14:59.400] all the information from his coaches and his teachers
[14:59.400 -> 15:01.300] and his teammates and social media
[15:01.300 -> 15:02.800] and his friends and everything else.
[15:02.800 -> 15:05.500] And I look at you, Joss, and I just think you're someone
[15:05.900 -> 15:07.900] in so many ways plowing your own furrow.
[15:07.900 -> 15:09.600] So if you fail, you're failing your own terms.
[15:09.600 -> 15:12.100] I think even the way that we look at your career now,
[15:12.200 -> 15:14.400] you know, here in the UK, we put Test cricket above everything
[15:14.400 -> 15:15.000] else, right?
[15:15.000 -> 15:18.000] And you're not involved in the England Test side at the moment.
[15:18.300 -> 15:21.900] Yet, we're still a bit sniffy and a bit questioning of the
[15:21.900 -> 15:24.300] IPL. Yet, you're out there in the IPL and you've just been
[15:24.300 -> 15:27.540] the best player on the global stage
[15:27.540 -> 15:30.280] in what for me is the most exciting cricket set up
[15:30.280 -> 15:31.100] in the world.
[15:31.100 -> 15:33.160] I think we should be far more embracing of the IPL
[15:33.160 -> 15:34.320] and we should be celebrating it
[15:34.320 -> 15:38.120] and looking how across the world it can be emulated.
[15:39.260 -> 15:43.120] So do you feel this sense of maybe being a sort of bit
[15:43.120 -> 15:49.120] of a lone soldier, plowing your own fur furrow not necessarily just doing things that please the press and and the
[15:49.120 -> 15:53.720] hierarchy and the and the establishment? In this way I think that there's a
[15:53.720 -> 15:58.000] couple of guys come before me in that so I'd say Kevin Peterson was certainly
[15:58.000 -> 16:03.720] you know huge in that and at the time when when he was sort of championing the
[16:03.720 -> 16:07.440] IPL and you know lots of different things got labelled against
[16:07.440 -> 16:13.860] him and now you look back 10 years or however long it was, you think, wow, he was so right
[16:13.860 -> 16:14.860] about it.
[16:14.860 -> 16:20.000] And actually the transformation in England's white ball cricket post the 2015 World Cup,
[16:20.000 -> 16:25.600] a lot of that's come off the back of our players experiencing the IPL, experiencing the pressure
[16:25.600 -> 16:31.760] that you're faced with in India, experiencing that intense environment and obviously the
[16:31.760 -> 16:35.080] quality of that cricket and really learning about that.
[16:35.080 -> 16:39.400] So I'd say KP was certainly one who took a lot of flack on that sense.
[16:39.400 -> 16:47.640] Owen Morgan is again someone who I think is very comfortable in ploughing his own throw. He's
[16:47.640 -> 16:52.080] very black and white in the way he sees things. He's very logical. He's a fantastic leader.
[16:52.080 -> 16:58.240] He's the best captain I've played for. Someone I really respect a lot. I think just spending
[16:58.240 -> 17:03.680] time with him and listening to him talk things out like that, you really understand that
[17:03.680 -> 17:05.720] logic behind it. And like you say, the
[17:05.720 -> 17:10.120] game is certainly going that way. For me, we're very lucky in England, Test cricket
[17:10.120 -> 17:16.720] will always be incredibly well supported and is such a fantastic game. And I think for
[17:16.720 -> 17:22.040] the players especially, it's the one that's like a real true test of great players. However,
[17:22.040 -> 17:25.880] T20 cricket and the IPL is not going anywhere. It's gaining
[17:25.880 -> 17:26.880] serious traction.
[17:26.880 -> 17:32.520] It's great to hear you praising Test cricket like that. And as we record this podcast,
[17:32.520 -> 17:36.760] the press is full of questions about whether Joss is on his way back into the England set-up.
[17:36.760 -> 17:42.580] Would you mind sharing with us in all its brutal honesty what it is like when, as an
[17:42.580 -> 17:46.060] Englishman who would have grown up watching and being absorbed by Test cricket,
[17:46.640 -> 17:50.380] what's it like that moment when you're told that you're not wanted in that area?
[17:50.820 -> 17:53.920] It's tough. So the first time I got dropped from the Test side,
[17:54.580 -> 17:57.080] it actually came with quite a lot of relief.
[17:57.640 -> 18:01.260] You know, I think I'd been having that 2015 ashes.
[18:01.960 -> 18:06.480] We went to Dubai to play against Pakistan and I dropped a pretty regulation catch
[18:06.480 -> 18:10.560] down the leg. So I ended up just looking for the ground to sort of swallow me up and get me out of
[18:10.560 -> 18:15.120] here. I just finding it too tough in a way. And of course, as a professional sportsman, you never
[18:15.120 -> 18:20.480] want to admit that you need a break or you need to be left out of the team. But at that sense,
[18:20.480 -> 18:25.000] it came with a lot of relief because I knew something had to change.
[18:25.000 -> 18:27.480] And I'm in a way, you know, I felt like I shouldn't be selected.
[18:27.480 -> 18:31.480] I'd sort of just through performance, I think, you know, I just felt like I wasn't
[18:31.480 -> 18:33.320] warranting my place in the team.
[18:34.520 -> 18:37.800] And you build these things up that you believe, you know, your teammates are all
[18:37.800 -> 18:39.120] talking about it or thinking about it.
[18:39.120 -> 18:40.120] It's in the press.
[18:40.120 -> 18:44.280] Yet when I got left out, you know, two days later, no one's talking about you ever
[18:44.280 -> 18:45.360] again. It's like moved.
[18:45.760 -> 18:50.080] So very quickly you realize that, okay, I wasn't the center of the universe.
[18:50.080 -> 18:56.400] My form doesn't hold weight in everyone's single conversation around the world.
[18:56.400 -> 18:58.960] And in the truest respect, you're pretty irrelevant.
[18:58.960 -> 19:04.160] And that was a big relief and a great realization, I think, moving forward into my career of
[19:06.000 -> 19:12.080] big relief and a great realisation I think moving forward into my career of how I must let cricket sit in what is the right place for me. It's really important, it's my job,
[19:12.080 -> 19:14.480] I love playing it but it's not the be all and end all.
[19:14.480 -> 19:20.120] So tell us about that then Josh because the courage to sometimes go to your coaches and
[19:20.120 -> 19:25.600] say I need to protect my mental health here or I need to a bit of time out just for myself.
[19:26.320 -> 19:31.840] Seems to me to take a lot of courage, it's a path less trodden. So tell us about how you go about
[19:31.840 -> 19:37.600] protecting your own mental health. Yeah so just going back, I was left out with that, I didn't
[19:37.600 -> 19:43.600] ask to be left out, I just I knew it was coming but I think that certainly in the last few years
[19:43.600 -> 19:48.000] that sort of mental well-being has become a much bigger conversation.
[19:48.000 -> 19:51.040] People are really looking after themselves, being a lot more honest.
[19:52.080 -> 19:55.040] Like I say, sharing a dressing room with men your whole life,
[19:55.920 -> 19:57.600] a lot of guys are quite close books.
[19:57.600 -> 20:02.960] But there's been some really, I'd say, key influential guys who've opened up
[20:02.960 -> 20:04.000] and talked about that.
[20:04.000 -> 20:06.280] Obviously, Ben Stokes is a really recent one
[20:06.280 -> 20:09.080] who's probably the most well-known crickter in the country.
[20:09.080 -> 20:10.660] And going back quite a few years,
[20:10.660 -> 20:14.040] Marcus Triscothic wrote a brilliant book on that stuff.
[20:14.040 -> 20:16.060] So it's become more of a conversation.
[20:16.060 -> 20:18.200] I think people naturally feel more comfortable
[20:18.200 -> 20:21.920] about asking for help or just being honest with saying,
[20:21.920 -> 20:24.920] you know, look, I feel like I've got a bit of a problem,
[20:24.920 -> 20:26.680] talking it out, and then you actually move past it.
[20:26.680 -> 20:28.240] You know, you've got to acknowledge
[20:28.240 -> 20:31.000] that there's something there before you can get over it.
[20:31.000 -> 20:32.480] And that's certainly something I've learned,
[20:32.480 -> 20:34.040] whether it's mental wellbeing
[20:34.040 -> 20:37.000] or something in your cricket environment or your game,
[20:37.000 -> 20:40.440] unless you can acknowledge that and take action against it,
[20:40.440 -> 20:42.360] then you don't really move past it.
[20:42.360 -> 20:46.840] So can you tell us then some of the tricks that you've used or some of the techniques
[20:46.840 -> 20:52.600] that you now employ to keep that sense of perspective, to allow cricket to sit as part
[20:52.600 -> 20:55.000] of your life rather than consume it?
[20:55.000 -> 20:57.000] Yeah, certainly.
[20:57.000 -> 20:59.120] The most recent one is obviously family.
[20:59.120 -> 21:06.300] Having two children now who have no idea really what I do. That certainly gives a great perspective.
[21:06.300 -> 21:09.080] You come home or you get off the field
[21:09.080 -> 21:10.680] and you've got a video there and you think,
[21:10.680 -> 21:12.540] okay, it doesn't matter that much.
[21:12.540 -> 21:14.600] And I don't know, someone told me as well
[21:14.600 -> 21:16.400] to just pick up a newspaper one day
[21:16.400 -> 21:18.000] and start at the start,
[21:18.000 -> 21:19.840] and by the time you get to the sport pages,
[21:19.840 -> 21:22.940] you'll realize actually there's a lot of stuff
[21:22.940 -> 21:26.400] going on in the world that is a lot more serious
[21:26.400 -> 21:30.840] or a lot more having a bigger effect than my form in cricket.
[21:30.840 -> 21:32.900] So that's another one.
[21:32.900 -> 21:38.480] And I like to sort of journal and write things down, you know, pre-match just as sort of
[21:38.480 -> 21:43.880] plans and sometimes post-match or just on a day off just to write down some thoughts
[21:43.880 -> 21:46.660] because sometimes you might not have the right person
[21:46.660 -> 21:48.880] around you who you want to talk to,
[21:48.880 -> 21:50.580] or they're not available on the end of the phone.
[21:50.580 -> 21:52.820] So just to write a few things down
[21:52.820 -> 21:55.540] and it feels like you get it off your chest quite helps.
[21:55.540 -> 21:57.960] And what does that do for you, the journaling?
[21:57.960 -> 22:01.720] I think again, just a bit of a release.
[22:01.720 -> 22:04.980] I'd say just to sort of see my thoughts
[22:04.980 -> 22:07.280] almost down on a page and you can then
[22:07.280 -> 22:12.480] sort of, because generally in that sense it's when they're more negative than positive,
[22:12.480 -> 22:16.800] you know, I like to, it's been an important thing that someone said to write down a sort of
[22:16.800 -> 22:21.520] mind stew of when things are going really well, you know, what is, so when you're at your best
[22:21.520 -> 22:28.480] and then when you get to that sort of next, you can sort of balance them out and see, okay, if I just reword that one or change that,
[22:28.480 -> 22:30.360] that's actually an opportunity for growth.
[22:30.360 -> 22:33.640] I can get back into a better mindset from that.
[22:33.640 -> 22:35.720] Or some of them you actually just look at and think,
[22:35.720 -> 22:36.960] that's just ridiculous.
[22:36.960 -> 22:38.280] Why are you thinking that?
[22:38.280 -> 22:40.800] And you almost just sort of cross it out.
[22:40.800 -> 22:43.440] So can you give us a specific example then, Joss,
[22:43.440 -> 22:50.880] of like where you've changed one or two sentences that you've seen written down that has subsequently shifted your perspective and
[22:50.880 -> 22:57.200] had an impact on your performance? Yeah, so I'd say really recently at the IPL, so I had a brilliant
[22:57.200 -> 23:02.560] first half, first seven games that went, you know, exceeded all my expectations, and then suddenly I
[23:02.560 -> 23:06.120] got to the point where, you know, there's a bit more noise on the outside.
[23:06.120 -> 23:08.760] It was like, can he go on to break records?
[23:08.760 -> 23:10.920] Is he going to keep hold of the orange cap?
[23:10.920 -> 23:13.600] And these are all things that I didn't want to think.
[23:13.600 -> 23:15.640] You know, it was like, you shouldn't be thinking
[23:15.640 -> 23:16.480] this kind of thing.
[23:16.480 -> 23:18.600] It's selfish, it's not you.
[23:18.600 -> 23:20.360] And I didn't want to share it because I was worried
[23:20.360 -> 23:23.760] almost about what people would think about that as well.
[23:23.760 -> 23:27.740] And actually it took me a chance to go and speak to one of the coaches and
[23:27.740 -> 23:31.100] say, look, it sounds awful, but I'm actually thinking about all the things
[23:31.100 -> 23:31.880] that people are right here.
[23:32.220 -> 23:33.560] Am I going to break the record?
[23:33.580 -> 23:35.200] How many runs is it going to end up with?
[23:35.320 -> 23:38.020] I'm going away from all the team things.
[23:38.020 -> 23:42.080] And actually, you know, my best thing is going out and playing the situation,
[23:42.080 -> 23:43.480] doing what's required for the team.
[23:43.480 -> 23:45.160] That's my perfect sort of thing.
[23:45.160 -> 23:49.040] And, and until I actually verbalized that and spoke about it, and it was a big,
[23:49.360 -> 23:52.400] and, and actually then, you know, he spoke back to me about, you know, well,
[23:52.400 -> 23:53.920] what is that lesson that it's giving you?
[23:54.120 -> 23:58.200] Um, and also, you know, writing down that, Oh, I'm worried that I've had two low
[23:58.200 -> 24:01.240] scores and so we've already scored three hundreds in the tournament, you know,
[24:01.240 -> 24:04.240] whatever happens from here, you've, you've had some great times.
[24:04.240 -> 24:09.280] So rewording that pressure of what happens if I fail, it's almost as actually,
[24:10.000 -> 24:11.500] um, what happens if it goes right?
[24:11.520 -> 24:14.160] You know, what if you have another great day on top of this?
[24:14.160 -> 24:18.920] What, um, so just flipping that perception and having, that's actually a really good
[24:18.920 -> 24:23.160] word that I, uh, you know, spend a lot of time, I think, you know, worrying about
[24:23.160 -> 24:25.280] the next day and sort of thinking, what if it goes wrong?
[24:25.280 -> 24:29.560] But certainly in the last few years, especially, I've tried to flip that into, well, what if
[24:29.560 -> 24:30.560] tomorrow is a great day?
[24:30.560 -> 24:32.440] It's so interesting, isn't it, Joss?
[24:32.440 -> 24:36.280] Because I think if you went back to the 11-year-old in the back garden playing cricket, you'd
[24:36.280 -> 24:39.640] think, if I just play for England, I will just be happy.
[24:39.640 -> 24:43.720] And it's only when you get to that point and you're playing for your country, you're playing
[24:43.720 -> 24:48.800] for your club, you're at the top of the world, yet it's still not simple, is it?
[24:48.800 -> 24:52.800] It almost becomes more complicated, I think, in some ways, the more success you have.
[24:52.800 -> 24:58.880] Yeah, I'd agree with that. And, you know, I think that's actually something I worked on.
[24:58.880 -> 25:04.320] I came across a performance coach at the IPL, a guy called Anand Cholani, and the conversation
[25:04.320 -> 25:06.800] actually started talking about the chipping yips and
[25:06.800 -> 25:09.840] like how I could sort of get rid of the chipping yips in my golf.
[25:10.240 -> 25:14.320] But in time, we came around to cricket and we sort of did a bit on sort of self
[25:14.320 -> 25:17.520] awareness and sort of what is actually me.
[25:17.520 -> 25:21.200] And so the big thing we came back to is, is a playful kid.
[25:21.880 -> 25:27.040] Now, 11 year old self who played the game because he loved it, loved the social element of it,
[25:27.040 -> 25:29.420] loved hitting a ball, loved trying to hit sixes
[25:29.420 -> 25:32.600] and all those things, and trying to reconnect with that.
[25:32.600 -> 25:35.720] And of course, as it becomes your job,
[25:35.720 -> 25:39.040] the pressure is absolutely different,
[25:39.040 -> 25:41.480] but as much as you can to try and reconnect
[25:41.480 -> 25:45.440] with that sort of pure version of yourself,
[25:47.800 -> 25:49.520] I think it's been a really powerful tool for me. It sounds like such an interesting journey.
[25:49.520 -> 25:50.360] It reminds me, Damien,
[25:50.360 -> 25:52.440] that Damien put a picture up on his Instagram
[25:52.440 -> 25:53.400] earlier today, actually,
[25:53.400 -> 25:55.000] and it was a picture of the world,
[25:55.000 -> 25:57.320] like two photos of the world, of the whole earth,
[25:57.320 -> 25:59.960] and it said, the earth before you make a mistake
[25:59.960 -> 26:01.520] and the earth after you make a mistake,
[26:01.520 -> 26:02.840] and they look identical.
[26:02.840 -> 26:04.760] And I think it's just,
[26:04.760 -> 26:06.280] it feels just like it's been a really interesting journey for you make a mistake and they look identical. And I think it's just, it feels just like
[26:06.280 -> 26:07.760] it's been a really interesting journey for you
[26:07.760 -> 26:08.800] and a brilliant, and by the way,
[26:08.800 -> 26:10.000] thank you very much for sharing this
[26:10.000 -> 26:11.460] with the people that are listening to this
[26:11.460 -> 26:13.760] because there'll be lots of young people listening to this
[26:13.760 -> 26:15.880] that are right in the center now
[26:15.880 -> 26:19.260] of where you would have been six, seven, eight years ago
[26:19.260 -> 26:22.320] when things had gone quicker than you could ever imagine
[26:22.320 -> 26:23.880] and you hadn't necessarily developed
[26:23.880 -> 26:26.840] the kind of mental dexterity to deal with it.
[26:26.840 -> 26:29.360] And I think sometimes we forget that actually
[26:29.360 -> 26:31.520] you're a better cricketer now for dealing with
[26:31.520 -> 26:34.040] all of those things away from the cricket field, right?
[26:34.920 -> 26:35.760] Yeah, absolutely.
[26:35.760 -> 26:37.280] And that's again, sort of,
[26:37.280 -> 26:39.840] when Damien asks about what a few of those things
[26:39.840 -> 26:41.520] that you write down, like you said,
[26:41.520 -> 26:42.640] I'm actually, you know,
[26:42.640 -> 26:45.580] I'm now the best cricketer I've ever been at this point.
[26:45.580 -> 26:48.140] So I've got all the more tools.
[26:48.140 -> 26:52.260] I've got, like you said, eight, 10 more years experience to fall back on and lessons I've
[26:52.260 -> 26:53.260] learned.
[26:53.260 -> 26:56.820] So I'm in a much better place to deal with things than I ever have been.
[26:56.820 -> 26:59.820] So how much do you now just trust the process, Joss?
[26:59.820 -> 27:02.860] I think England is a really interesting conversation for us to have.
[27:02.860 -> 27:08.400] Like, do you write things down about how you're going to get back into the England setup? Do you just play cricket to the best of
[27:08.400 -> 27:12.400] your ability? And I know that that's the cliche that all professional sports people tell the media,
[27:12.400 -> 27:18.080] I'll just take it one game at a time and let that take care of itself. What is your approach to
[27:18.080 -> 27:22.720] being England test player again, for example, now? Yeah, to be honest, it's not something I'm
[27:22.720 -> 27:25.200] thinking loads about. Obviously, there's
[27:29.520 -> 27:36.320] Stokes and McCullum, a sort of new partnership at the top and sitting as a fan, I find that incredibly exciting, let alone how the players must feel about that as well. But with cricket,
[27:36.320 -> 27:40.880] like you said, now there's opportunity all around the world in different things. And
[27:41.760 -> 27:48.720] I'm very fortunate to have played as much Test cricket as I have. Um, if that ever comes again or not, we'll never know, but certainly,
[27:48.840 -> 27:50.140] um, feel lucky to have played.
[27:50.140 -> 27:53.560] So I'm in a position now where, like I said, there's, there's great opportunities.
[27:53.560 -> 27:56.340] I'm still playing for England in, in the white ball teams.
[27:56.400 -> 27:58.320] So that's, I think a big help.
[27:58.420 -> 28:02.840] You know, I think if I'd been dropped from England and I never had the chance to
[28:02.880 -> 28:05.080] pull on an England jersey again, that would
[28:05.080 -> 28:08.800] be a much different conversation to be trying to deal with.
[28:08.800 -> 28:12.720] And how does that thinking compare to the first time you weren't involved in the test
[28:12.720 -> 28:13.720] team?
[28:13.720 -> 28:19.500] Probably a lot better, I think, in terms of having played a lot more games now and still
[28:19.500 -> 28:23.960] not really fulfilled my potential for sure, but being a better version and done a few
[28:23.960 -> 28:29.360] more bits in sort of infrequently, whereas the first time I got dropped, it was sort of, well,
[28:30.160 -> 28:34.640] I've not given a great account of myself, I tried to do it all wrong, now what if that chance never
[28:34.640 -> 28:40.880] comes again and the stress of, you know, I messed it up and I should have done this, this, this,
[28:40.880 -> 28:45.440] whereas now I certainly feel much more like that failing on my own terms.
[28:45.440 -> 28:46.640] I've given it a great crack.
[28:46.640 -> 28:47.160] I tried.
[28:47.680 -> 28:49.280] Is there more to give potentially?
[28:49.720 -> 28:54.360] Um, but if there's not, no, I'm happy with the sort of what I put in.
[28:54.680 -> 28:59.360] So we did a really fascinating interview last year, just with, um, Johanna
[28:59.360 -> 29:06.880] Conta, the British tennis player that told us about writing messages to herself on a racket. So
[29:06.880 -> 29:14.240] some of it might be about enjoy the ride, remember to look up and just enjoy looking
[29:14.240 -> 29:18.720] at the sky and things like that. And that was her way of reminding herself to be grateful
[29:18.720 -> 29:25.480] and to keep that sense of perspective. Now I'm interested in, on your bat, it's maybe...
[29:25.480 -> 29:27.160] I thought I knew where you were going with this.
[29:27.160 -> 29:29.320] On your bat, it's a little bit more pragmatic,
[29:29.320 -> 29:32.280] the language, of reminding yourself just to fuck it.
[29:32.280 -> 29:34.520] Would you tell us a little bit about the process of that
[29:34.520 -> 29:36.120] and what that means to you?
[29:36.120 -> 29:39.960] Yeah, so I write that on the top of every bat I've got.
[29:39.960 -> 29:43.120] And I actually was born with a sports psychologist
[29:43.120 -> 29:46.440] called Mark Borden, who was with the England team
[29:46.440 -> 29:48.360] when I first started.
[29:48.360 -> 29:51.300] And the same kind of, like we talked about this process,
[29:51.300 -> 29:54.760] I'd been in the T20 team, I hadn't had much opportunity,
[29:54.760 -> 29:58.920] but I hadn't certainly showcased what I was capable of.
[29:58.920 -> 30:00.600] And I was talking to him about this,
[30:00.600 -> 30:03.880] and he just basically said, what is the best,
[30:03.880 -> 30:06.800] how do you feel, or what do you think about when you play a big show,
[30:06.800 -> 30:08.040] when you're in your perfect flow,
[30:08.040 -> 30:09.040] what does it feel like?
[30:09.040 -> 30:10.640] I said, I literally just think,
[30:10.640 -> 30:13.440] fuck it, I'm going to commit and go for it.
[30:13.440 -> 30:16.840] We were doing something around that inverted youth,
[30:16.840 -> 30:24.680] that arousal state and basically just two words that was just so simple to link
[30:24.680 -> 30:25.000] into what is going to get me to the best day and actually crosses over into quite a lot of just two words that was just so simple to link into,
[30:25.000 -> 30:27.000] you know, what is going to get me to the best day.
[30:27.000 -> 30:30.000] And actually crosses over into quite a lot of different things now,
[30:30.000 -> 30:33.000] like you spoke about sort of failing on your own terms.
[30:33.000 -> 30:35.000] I can be like, fuck it, I've done that.
[30:35.000 -> 30:39.000] Or if I, do I trust my decision or do I...
[30:39.000 -> 30:41.000] Certainly, you know, being at the non-strikers end
[30:41.000 -> 30:44.000] is generally when you do a bit of thinking time in the game.
[30:44.000 -> 30:47.960] So just to be able to look down and sort of see that message that was sort of
[30:47.960 -> 30:52.280] very black and white, it basically just means commit to it.
[30:52.280 -> 30:57.280] Can you think of a moment where you've needed it and you've looked at it, seen it and it's
[30:57.280 -> 30:59.040] helped you with the outcome?
[30:59.040 -> 31:08.800] Actually in the World Cup final. So we were chasing those runs at Lord's in 2019 and the field was set and I don't know
[31:08.800 -> 31:12.400] how much you know about cricket, but a ramp shot basically, a bit of a risky shot over
[31:12.400 -> 31:16.040] the wicket keeper, but there was a huge gap there.
[31:16.040 -> 31:18.040] And I was thinking about it for a little while.
[31:18.040 -> 31:22.520] I said, you know, if this was any other game, but the World Cup final, I'd go for it.
[31:22.520 -> 31:24.200] It wouldn't even be crossed my mind.
[31:24.200 -> 31:25.440] It's a shot I'm brilliant at.
[31:26.480 -> 31:28.360] You know, you just play it instinctively.
[31:28.480 -> 31:29.360] It's the right time.
[31:29.400 -> 31:29.920] Go for it.
[31:30.040 -> 31:31.840] And I think, oh, but it's the World Cup final.
[31:31.880 -> 31:32.640] What if you get out?
[31:33.280 -> 31:34.960] Um, no, it's, it's the last chance.
[31:35.000 -> 31:38.400] And, and actually that sort of fuck it, commit to it.
[31:38.520 -> 31:41.840] It's the right, you've gone through, is this the right option?
[31:42.360 -> 31:43.160] Absolutely.
[31:43.640 -> 31:44.680] A hundred percent commitment.
[31:44.680 -> 31:45.920] And, and, and it came off.
[31:45.920 -> 31:49.720] So, um, no, I think that was just a great lesson about sort of, no matter
[31:49.720 -> 31:55.020] what the, um, situation either, if you can, if you, if you go through that
[31:55.020 -> 31:58.980] sort of decision-making process and you're fully committed, then it's
[31:58.980 -> 32:00.040] the right decision to make.
[32:00.760 -> 32:03.180] And have you got an example in the real world as well, when
[32:03.180 -> 32:08.400] you've had to remind yourself, you know what, this might not be on the cricket field, but same approach.
[32:08.400 -> 32:09.400] Talking in front of groups.
[32:09.400 -> 32:12.440] Um, I'd say I'm, I'm a bit of a quiet guy.
[32:12.440 -> 32:17.040] I'm probably naturally quite introverted, but I feel like I'm always quite comfortable
[32:17.040 -> 32:19.640] talking in front of a group and sharing my opinion.
[32:19.640 -> 32:25.400] Um, especially in, in a cricket environment, in the dressing room, I think I can do that, but more so like outside,
[32:25.400 -> 32:26.720] whether it's with a group of friends
[32:26.720 -> 32:29.220] or meeting people in business,
[32:30.680 -> 32:33.640] who you sort of think, now I don't have any business,
[32:33.640 -> 32:36.080] but meeting business people who you assume
[32:36.080 -> 32:38.480] that they know more than you,
[32:38.480 -> 32:40.060] you're not worthy to sort of challenge
[32:40.060 -> 32:41.720] their way of thinking or whatever.
[32:41.720 -> 32:43.720] So to actually be like, no,
[32:43.720 -> 32:45.360] if I could like commit to what you think.
[32:45.440 -> 32:48.520] Um, no questions, a stupid question you ask it.
[32:48.680 -> 32:52.680] Um, so that's certainly an area it sort of crops into as well.
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[34:32.560 -> 34:37.120] I'm interested in exploring this idea of authenticity that you've described
[34:37.120 -> 34:40.920] because I think everything you've said builds up to this Josh. So the idea of
[34:40.920 -> 34:47.000] when you're at your best, that is when you thrive and decide and commit into something completely.
[34:47.000 -> 34:56.000] But I'm also struck by that people describe you as being calm and being quite quiet and being very humble.
[34:56.000 -> 35:02.000] And yet you also have this image from the outside of being like a super focused,
[35:02.000 -> 35:05.400] you know, your description is one of the most dangerous
[35:05.400 -> 35:11.760] batsmen on the planet. Do you feel that you have to adopt a certain mask when
[35:11.760 -> 35:16.200] you play cricket as opposed to when you're at home with your daughters and
[35:16.200 -> 35:19.800] how do you go about assuming that identity?
[35:19.800 -> 35:24.480] Yeah I think your identity can be the same actually to be honest. I think in
[35:24.480 -> 35:28.800] terms of when I'm at home that I just try and be dad and husband and a friend, just
[35:28.800 -> 35:31.560] be myself again, like you said.
[35:31.560 -> 35:32.560] That's when I'm at my best.
[35:32.560 -> 35:37.760] And that same person plays cricket, just in a different style.
[35:37.760 -> 35:41.120] And I think for me, I'm an incredibly competitive person.
[35:41.120 -> 35:50.600] I think I might be sometimes seen as a quiet or softly spoken, but that competitive streak is incredibly strong. So coming into cricket,
[35:50.600 -> 35:55.840] I feel like I have a level of confidence in my own ability as well that when I work
[35:55.840 -> 36:01.200] hard and practice hard, if I operate at my intensity, I can match, if not better,
[36:01.200 -> 36:06.880] the rest of the world kind of mentality at the time. But I certainly hold
[36:06.880 -> 36:13.200] that. But in terms of that calmness and the way I think that presence on the field and trying to
[36:13.200 -> 36:19.280] perceive that is one, sense a bit natural, and then two, sort of learned through role models.
[36:20.320 -> 36:25.000] So in cricket, Mahendra Singh Dhoni, who was captain of India for a long time,
[36:25.000 -> 36:27.000] sort of captain cooler, loved that.
[36:27.000 -> 36:31.000] If anyone knows about Indian cricket, the level of interest and the chaos around it,
[36:31.000 -> 36:35.000] how he managed to stay incredibly level, what it looked like from the outside,
[36:35.000 -> 36:37.000] I was always really drawn to that.
[36:37.000 -> 36:41.000] And I guess Roger Federer is another, I watched him play tennis.
[36:41.000 -> 36:50.320] I just thought his demeanour and personality on court, I thought was fantastic. And so to sort of try and emulate that kind of calm,
[36:50.320 -> 36:54.800] consistent kind of thing on a field. So tell us about mentors then. So you've
[36:54.800 -> 36:58.880] described two really powerful examples, like one from within your world and one
[36:58.880 -> 37:03.480] from outside it. Who do you go to for advice and what's the best piece they've
[37:03.480 -> 37:09.000] ever given you? I think so within cricket I think my wife's a great one.
[37:09.000 -> 37:11.000] She'll give me very honest, honest advice.
[37:11.000 -> 37:15.000] So when I get a bit caught up in my own world of stuff and that kind of,
[37:15.000 -> 37:18.000] I just want to do this, I need to do this.
[37:18.000 -> 37:20.000] It's like, well, everyone's trying to do that.
[37:20.000 -> 37:22.000] Like, come back to yourself.
[37:22.000 -> 37:26.480] And I think Neil Fairbrother's another good one. He is my agent,
[37:26.480 -> 37:31.440] but it doesn't feel right to describe him as an agent really. He's more of a mentor and a friend.
[37:31.440 -> 37:36.800] He's looked after me for 12 years now, I think, and someone who played cricket for England and
[37:36.800 -> 37:43.280] Lancashire as well. So he's someone I always turn to and we talk a lot about cricket. We agree on
[37:43.280 -> 37:46.720] some things, definitely disagree on certain things.
[37:46.720 -> 37:51.040] And I think the best piece of advice, and I don't know who would have told me this,
[37:51.040 -> 37:56.480] is that there's no secret. There's no person who's going to come along and tell you this one thing
[37:56.480 -> 38:02.880] that's going to make you score 100 every time or be brilliant every single day. It's all about
[38:02.880 -> 38:05.960] hard work, determination, consistency.
[38:05.960 -> 38:08.040] A lot of the things you guys talk about
[38:08.040 -> 38:09.340] on the podcast a lot.
[38:09.340 -> 38:13.260] And the other really good thing to think is
[38:13.260 -> 38:15.520] sometimes I, sort of a lesson for myself,
[38:15.520 -> 38:17.800] I listen to a guest come on and talk
[38:17.800 -> 38:20.020] and I sort of walk away inspired
[38:20.020 -> 38:22.360] and feeling sort of 10 foot tall and that's great.
[38:22.360 -> 38:25.560] And then wake up the next day and I don't feel like that.
[38:25.560 -> 38:28.680] So sort of realizing that you can listen to things
[38:28.680 -> 38:30.400] and get great advice or hear things,
[38:30.400 -> 38:34.640] but it's a constant daily process you have to go through.
[38:34.640 -> 38:38.440] Just because suddenly you've heard someone talk
[38:38.440 -> 38:40.000] brilliantly and really inspiring
[38:40.000 -> 38:42.000] doesn't mean that now you're fixed.
[38:42.000 -> 38:45.080] You've got to keep doing that every day and work away at it.
[38:45.080 -> 38:46.480] Some days you'll feel better than others.
[38:46.480 -> 38:49.920] And I think that's another good learning I've taken.
[38:49.920 -> 38:51.720] And I love the fact that you journal
[38:51.720 -> 38:53.720] because I think that it's such a powerful tool
[38:53.720 -> 38:55.160] for so many people.
[38:55.160 -> 38:57.560] On the days when you do wake up and you feel a bit weak
[38:57.560 -> 38:59.000] or you ask questions of yourself
[38:59.000 -> 39:00.960] or you think you're struggling slightly,
[39:00.960 -> 39:03.040] what is the thing that can help get you out of that?
[39:03.040 -> 39:06.000] What is it you remind yourself of in those situations?
[39:06.000 -> 39:10.000] That tomorrow could be a great day one is a big one.
[39:10.000 -> 39:17.000] You're going back to that 2015 period of the Ashes getting dropped from just in Pakistan,
[39:17.000 -> 39:19.000] in Dubai against Pakistan.
[39:19.000 -> 39:22.000] So feeling like I haven't scored a run for six months.
[39:22.000 -> 39:27.360] And then suddenly in an ODI, literally a week later,
[39:27.360 -> 39:29.360] I scored a hundred off 50 balls,
[39:29.360 -> 39:32.360] probably the best I've ever batted in my life.
[39:32.360 -> 39:34.480] And just sort of that realization of,
[39:34.480 -> 39:35.320] where's that come from?
[39:35.320 -> 39:36.480] You know, I've had no form,
[39:36.480 -> 39:40.360] I've had no sort of inkling that an innings like that
[39:40.360 -> 39:42.120] was around the corner.
[39:42.120 -> 39:44.200] And just that realization of like,
[39:44.200 -> 39:45.440] you're never ever far
[39:45.440 -> 39:50.400] away from a great day. So that's certainly something and it takes time, you know, on
[39:50.400 -> 39:54.800] some days, it's five minutes and you get back to that place. And sometimes it might take
[39:54.800 -> 39:58.160] hours and hours before you finally believe yourself.
[39:59.200 -> 40:03.120] It can be a hard one for a lot of people, though. And I think it's just a good reminder
[40:03.120 -> 40:09.160] for people listening to this, that, you you know living with regret is never a very healthy way to be and I and we
[40:09.160 -> 40:12.640] love the phrase on this podcast and you may well have heard us talk about it Joss that
[40:12.640 -> 40:17.280] just because something is hard for you it doesn't mean it's bad for you and actually
[40:17.280 -> 40:21.360] you know the fact that that 2015 decision by the selectors has cropped up a few times
[40:21.360 -> 40:27.380] in this conversation whilst we are discussing a a person who could be argued is the most informed cricketer in the
[40:27.380 -> 40:28.180] world at the moment.
[40:29.680 -> 40:31.400] It's all part of your story.
[40:31.660 -> 40:34.260] Those struggles and those failures and those setbacks and those difficult
[40:34.260 -> 40:38.480] times may well be part of the reason why you've got such strength at the moment.
[40:39.140 -> 40:40.080] Yeah, absolutely.
[40:40.120 -> 40:43.640] And like I said before, everyone's running their own race, you know, it's,
[40:44.040 -> 40:47.000] um, everyone's in a different mindset at a certain time.
[40:47.000 -> 40:52.000] I think one hard thing to always find is time will help.
[40:52.000 -> 40:54.000] Things can change over time.
[40:54.000 -> 40:57.000] We always want to accelerate that as quick as we can
[40:57.000 -> 40:58.000] and get to that place.
[40:58.000 -> 41:02.000] And of course, listen to the Joe Wicks one recently.
[41:02.000 -> 41:10.000] He said, I'm a 10-year overnight success story. I mean, that time it takes sometimes to get to the Joe Wicks one recently, you know, he said, I'm a 10 year overnight success story. I mean, you know, that time it takes sometimes to get to the place you, you want, but that mission,
[41:10.960 -> 41:14.080] you know, of his or that why is never sort of varied.
[41:14.080 -> 41:14.320] Rory McKenzie
[41:14.320 -> 41:20.240] And that is because life is a, is constant exploration. So how important is exploration
[41:20.240 -> 41:20.560] to you?
[41:20.560 -> 41:21.200] Matt McVey
[41:21.200 -> 41:28.240] Really important. And I think it's been a big part of my game. I think curiosity is one of those things.
[41:28.240 -> 41:34.440] In terms of cricket, like you said, there's a lot of things that people do in cricket
[41:34.440 -> 41:35.880] just because everyone's done that.
[41:35.880 -> 41:41.400] And so having the curiosity sometimes to challenge that or say, why can't you do it differently?
[41:41.400 -> 41:43.960] I mentioned Kevin Peterson and Owen Morgan before.
[41:43.960 -> 41:49.280] I thought they were pioneers in the way they played, you know, some of the stuff Kevin Peterson did in the test match,
[41:49.280 -> 41:55.760] you would never ever see people do that before. And it was inspiring, you know, all these sort of
[41:55.760 -> 42:01.120] sweeps and reverse sweeps and these kind of shots. So that curiosity and innovation was something
[42:01.120 -> 42:07.260] that sat really well with me. And I was interested. Can you do it differently? And I think to embrace change as well.
[42:07.260 -> 42:09.500] You know, change is a constant thing in life.
[42:09.500 -> 42:12.160] You know, it's always, sometimes,
[42:12.160 -> 42:14.780] especially I feel like I've recently learned that
[42:14.780 -> 42:18.680] in terms of sometimes we'd look back at great performance.
[42:18.680 -> 42:21.980] Can I sort of emulate that perfectly?
[42:21.980 -> 42:23.580] Can I do exactly the same thing?
[42:23.580 -> 42:25.360] Can I have exactly the same thought process?
[42:25.360 -> 42:28.240] Can I do, but actually you have to accept the change.
[42:28.240 -> 42:29.680] You know, you're now on a different day.
[42:29.680 -> 42:32.440] You might feel a little bit different within your game.
[42:32.440 -> 42:34.700] Your sort of level of flow and state
[42:34.700 -> 42:36.120] can still be pretty constant,
[42:36.120 -> 42:38.420] but you're allowed to hit the ball in different areas
[42:38.420 -> 42:40.320] or think different thoughts sometimes.
[42:40.320 -> 42:43.200] Or so embracing change at times.
[42:43.200 -> 42:44.960] And I think I said in cricket,
[42:44.960 -> 42:47.280] you know, we have to embrace the change that's happening a lot
[42:47.280 -> 42:49.040] in our sport at the minute.
[42:49.040 -> 42:50.560] So how do you go about doing that?
[42:50.560 -> 42:52.880] What tips could you offer our listeners, Josh,
[42:52.880 -> 42:57.480] on being creative to embrace change more effectively?
[42:57.480 -> 42:59.760] I think the curiosity is one.
[42:59.760 -> 43:01.240] You're sort of challenging convention
[43:01.240 -> 43:03.400] and sort of asking why.
[43:03.400 -> 43:04.840] You know, kids are great at that, aren't they?
[43:04.840 -> 43:05.080] You ask why all the time, and it's actually such a pure form of such an easy question. sort of challenging convention and sort of asking why. Kids are great at that, aren't they?
[43:05.080 -> 43:07.400] You ask why all the time, and it's actually
[43:07.400 -> 43:09.440] such a pure form of such an easy question,
[43:09.440 -> 43:10.960] like, well, why do we do that?
[43:10.960 -> 43:12.120] Why is that something?
[43:12.120 -> 43:15.120] So that's one certain thing.
[43:15.120 -> 43:17.320] And I think for me, trying to find ways
[43:17.320 -> 43:20.560] in whatever your business or your sport
[43:20.560 -> 43:23.000] or your home life or whatever, to experiment,
[43:23.000 -> 43:26.080] to try things and sort of see if it works, see if it doesn't.
[43:26.080 -> 43:30.780] So sorry to come back to myself, a great way for me to do it is just to go to the
[43:30.780 -> 43:33.760] nets and, and bat in the nets with no consequence.
[43:34.120 -> 43:37.560] Um, it doesn't matter if I get out every single ball, it doesn't matter if I hit
[43:37.560 -> 43:42.800] every ball for six, but that's an area I can experiment and try and be creative.
[43:42.800 -> 43:46.240] And that links back to that sort of playful kid kind of
[43:46.240 -> 43:48.280] mentality that we spoke about before.
[43:48.960 -> 43:51.720] I don't know if you've, if you've read the book, just,
[43:51.720 -> 43:53.160] but there's a brilliant book called quiet,
[43:53.160 -> 43:55.480] the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking.
[43:55.600 -> 43:56.100] Have you read it?
[43:56.320 -> 43:56.920] No, I haven't.
[43:56.920 -> 43:58.440] No, you would like it.
[43:58.920 -> 44:00.160] It's really, it's a fantastic book.
[44:00.160 -> 44:03.680] And I, and I sitting and having this conversation with you,
[44:03.680 -> 44:05.680] you know, you've listened to a lot of these podcasts
[44:05.680 -> 44:07.360] and we have such an interesting
[44:07.360 -> 44:08.760] and fascinating variety of people.
[44:08.760 -> 44:11.200] And some are very keen to come on and talk
[44:11.200 -> 44:13.800] and share their views and their forthright about it.
[44:13.800 -> 44:16.440] And, you know, you're on a podcast about you
[44:16.440 -> 44:18.040] where you're the guest and you've just apologized
[44:18.040 -> 44:19.100] for talking about yourself,
[44:19.100 -> 44:22.360] which I think is a fascinating insight
[44:22.360 -> 44:25.280] into someone who apologizes for talking about themselves,
[44:25.280 -> 44:26.600] but can then stand at the crease
[44:26.600 -> 44:28.420] with the whole world watching in a World Cup final
[44:28.420 -> 44:32.560] and deliver a shot and a moment that really matters.
[44:32.560 -> 44:34.000] So as someone who,
[44:34.000 -> 44:36.040] and you've described yourself as an introvert,
[44:36.040 -> 44:38.320] have you had to educate people
[44:38.320 -> 44:39.960] or have you seen the world change around you
[44:39.960 -> 44:41.840] that just because someone is quiet,
[44:41.840 -> 44:43.640] it doesn't mean that their opinion
[44:43.640 -> 44:45.480] or their belief or their voice isn't valid.
[44:45.480 -> 44:47.600] And I come at this as the father
[44:47.600 -> 44:51.800] of an amazing seven-year-old boy who is quiet
[44:51.800 -> 44:54.080] and people are forever saying,
[44:54.080 -> 44:55.480] talking about him almost like it's a problem.
[44:55.480 -> 44:56.400] Oh, he's very quiet, isn't he?
[44:56.400 -> 44:58.880] Well, because that's Sebastian,
[44:58.880 -> 45:00.840] that's who he is and his life can still be incredible
[45:00.840 -> 45:01.680] despite that.
[45:02.560 -> 45:03.640] Yeah, absolutely.
[45:03.640 -> 45:06.160] And I see it as a position of strength and confidence
[45:06.160 -> 45:08.760] quite a lot that you don't have to outwardly tell people
[45:08.760 -> 45:10.800] how great you are or try and prove
[45:10.800 -> 45:14.680] or be the loudest voice in the room just to actually see it
[45:14.680 -> 45:18.880] as a huge area of confidence when people can sort of
[45:18.880 -> 45:23.080] withhold themselves and be comfortable with who they are.
[45:23.080 -> 45:25.640] And I think that's going to be a huge challenge for children.
[45:25.640 -> 45:28.520] You know, moving forward, we live in such a different age now,
[45:28.520 -> 45:31.360] don't we, the social media age of that stuff,
[45:31.360 -> 45:33.400] sort of portraying a perfect life and stuff.
[45:33.400 -> 45:36.960] But no, I see it as a great position of strength.
[45:36.960 -> 45:40.120] I think there's natural leaders that you sort of can,
[45:40.120 -> 45:41.680] I've played in lots of different teams
[45:41.680 -> 45:43.400] and it's not always the loudest ones
[45:43.400 -> 45:47.920] who are the ones who are most followed. Was there a time where you thought you had to be loud to be a leader?
[45:49.200 -> 45:53.520] I'd say at times they're like thinking they were the more obvious leaders. Yeah, I'd say
[45:54.640 -> 45:58.800] sort of probably more at school, you know, I thought it was like, you know, the louder guys
[45:58.800 -> 46:04.880] are the cooler ones or have the most friends or seem to be the most popular or whatever. And
[46:04.480 -> 46:09.920] or have the most friends or seem to be the most popular or whatever. And actually that, you know, certainly leave school and realize that what a load of rubbish that is.
[46:09.920 -> 46:16.320] And yeah, I think some of the best leaders I've played for are incredibly, you know,
[46:16.320 -> 46:20.720] you have, they're inspiring, even if they're not loud, it might be actions, the way they work.
[46:21.280 -> 46:23.440] They're incredibly competent, you know, what they do.
[46:23.440 -> 46:26.720] And, you know and just incredibly honest.
[46:26.720 -> 46:30.360] When you do ask for their opinion or they tell it to you straight, so you know you're
[46:30.360 -> 46:35.120] going to get that consistent message or they're going to be honest with you.
[46:35.120 -> 46:40.960] So you described before then, Joss, around Owen Morgan was the best leader that you played
[46:40.960 -> 46:49.300] in. I'm interested, what type of culture and environment in that dressing room did those best leaders create to get the best out of the
[46:49.300 -> 46:51.600] majority of people sat within them?
[46:51.600 -> 47:00.800] Yeah so the white ball team is probably the easiest one for me to give that example of which Owen is captain of and still is now been nearly seven years.
[47:00.800 -> 47:05.600] And he, Trevor Bayliss and Andrew Strauss sort of completely flipped on its head
[47:05.600 -> 47:10.000] the way white ball cricket was played in England. We were very conservative. We sort of played it
[47:10.000 -> 47:17.040] safe and hoped to win basically. Whereas they sort of created a mindset of we're going to be
[47:17.040 -> 47:23.040] at the completely other end of that. We're going to be more expansive than any team in the world.
[47:23.040 -> 47:27.520] We're going to take more risk than anyone else. We're going to really commit to that.
[47:27.520 -> 47:31.720] And if we do that, we'll have more success than we do,
[47:31.720 -> 47:34.720] A, at the time, and over time, it will be incredibly successful.
[47:34.720 -> 47:40.400] And Owen has always been a bit of a pioneer in the way he played,
[47:40.400 -> 47:42.280] but he's asking guys to do that.
[47:42.280 -> 47:47.640] And then we'd go out and show that straight away as a third ball, he'll be running down trying to smack a guy over
[47:47.640 -> 47:48.000] his head.
[47:48.600 -> 47:51.920] And you think, well, if our captain's doing that and he's, that's okay, we're
[47:51.920 -> 47:53.080] all going to follow that lead.
[47:53.080 -> 47:57.220] And it's suited a lot of guys to play in a very expansive and aggressive way.
[47:57.220 -> 48:01.360] And I think the best thing about it is when it went wrong, they didn't
[48:01.360 -> 48:03.320] waver from that message.
[48:03.800 -> 48:06.160] So everyone can champion things when it's going right,
[48:06.160 -> 48:07.000] can't they?
[48:07.000 -> 48:08.200] And say, this is brilliant, we just do this,
[48:08.200 -> 48:09.680] this is how we play.
[48:09.680 -> 48:11.920] But when we would be challenged from the outside,
[48:11.920 -> 48:13.800] say the media or someone,
[48:13.800 -> 48:15.240] I think they take too much risk,
[48:15.240 -> 48:18.200] or they need to get smarter, or they need to do this.
[48:18.200 -> 48:20.920] Owen's messaging back was incredibly consistent.
[48:20.920 -> 48:22.640] No, this is the way we play.
[48:22.640 -> 48:24.880] We've 100% believe in it.
[48:24.880 -> 48:28.000] We're gonna commit to it, whatever happens.
[48:28.120 -> 48:32.800] And that I think for the dressing room, just, you know, gives great sense of
[48:32.800 -> 48:36.920] belief that, you know, even when we, we didn't win the game or whatever, you
[48:36.920 -> 48:40.600] know, he's telling us to go on and keep playing and get better and do it even
[48:41.120 -> 48:42.120] come back even better.
[48:42.600 -> 48:46.800] There's a really sort of interesting balance in your career where you play in a team sport,
[48:47.100 -> 48:51.200] but there's also that reliance on the individual, whether it's making sure that,
[48:51.200 -> 48:54.800] you know, you take the catch behind the wickets or whether it's you to hit the winning run
[48:54.800 -> 48:59.100] as you've done so often in the amazing career that you've had.
[48:59.300 -> 49:02.000] When did you realise, because I think coming through school,
[49:02.300 -> 49:04.800] you would have been the number one, so it's all about you.
[49:04.800 -> 49:05.720] When did you realize that actually
[49:05.720 -> 49:07.560] it can still be all about you at certain times,
[49:07.560 -> 49:10.680] but the strength of the team is about the power
[49:10.680 -> 49:12.240] of working all together,
[49:12.240 -> 49:14.600] not as a collection of individuals?
[49:14.600 -> 49:16.680] Yeah, cricket's a really interesting one for that.
[49:16.680 -> 49:18.680] Like you say, it's sort of individual game played
[49:18.680 -> 49:19.920] within a team environment.
[49:19.920 -> 49:23.080] So, but no, that World Cup team is the one
[49:23.080 -> 49:24.920] I can sort of really think about that.
[49:24.920 -> 49:25.120] Everyone sort of had a clear role as to how they were going to play. So, but no, that World Cup team is the one I can really think about that.
[49:25.120 -> 49:28.520] Everyone sort of had a clear role as to how they were going to play.
[49:28.520 -> 49:33.680] And one of the best things for me in that tournament was that we'd lost a couple of games.
[49:33.680 -> 49:40.080] We lost to Sri Lanka, we lost to Australia, and we went to Edgbaston needing to beat India to stay in the tournament.
[49:40.080 -> 49:45.960] And we actually had a really open sort of team meeting before, before the training the day before.
[49:45.960 -> 49:49.160] And, and everyone just sort of spoke about how they were feeling.
[49:49.240 -> 49:52.960] Um, you know, even the coaches sort of shared what they were thinking and guys
[49:52.960 -> 49:54.880] who were sat on the sidelines, not in the 11.
[49:54.880 -> 49:55.880] And it was really powerful.
[49:55.880 -> 49:59.240] You know, some people, you know, I was sort of like, God was, you know, feel
[49:59.240 -> 50:01.160] like, you know, we're going to get knocked out of our own tournament.
[50:01.160 -> 50:03.720] I'm worried about sort of, you know, we've missed a great chance.
[50:03.720 -> 50:07.460] And then someone like Jason Roy was like, well, if we win four games in a row, we
[50:07.460 -> 50:09.180] win the world cup, it's as simple as that.
[50:09.180 -> 50:12.200] And sort of that was a great thing to hear that different people
[50:12.200 -> 50:13.360] were thinking different things.
[50:13.400 -> 50:17.560] And then the best thing for me was that we, we went out in that game.
[50:18.240 -> 50:21.000] And Jason Roy and Johnny Besto opened the batting for England.
[50:21.040 -> 50:26.480] And, and they played in exactly the fashion that we played for four
[50:26.480 -> 50:27.680] or five years before that.
[50:27.680 -> 50:32.880] So, sorry, four years before that, incredibly aggressive, incredibly positive through caution
[50:32.880 -> 50:33.880] to the wind.
[50:33.880 -> 50:38.560] And I just remember watching those two guys bat thinking, this is awesome.
[50:38.560 -> 50:43.440] We may even go on to lose this game, but in our time of sort of greatest pressure as a
[50:43.440 -> 50:48.640] team that we've faced in the last four years, in a time of sort of greatest pressure as a team that we've faced in the last four years, um, in a time of sort of greatest need, these two guys
[50:48.640 -> 50:52.100] have gone out and sort of taken the ultra positive aggression and being
[50:52.100 -> 50:53.860] really true to who we were as a team.
[50:54.460 -> 50:59.040] So you've, you've explained there what was created, but we're really
[50:59.040 -> 51:02.140] interested in is how was that atmosphere created in that team?
[51:02.780 -> 51:03.200] Yeah.
[51:03.200 -> 51:11.160] So how I'd say in, it's is that continuity of message, I guess, from, from again, sort of
[51:11.160 -> 51:15.840] over that four year period of, of this is how we would like to play as a team.
[51:15.840 -> 51:20.280] The trust given, the giving guys more games than they were used to probably sort of someone,
[51:20.280 -> 51:25.440] you know, obviously when you're taking more risk, there's that more chance that you're going
[51:25.440 -> 51:27.720] to get out for a low score or you're going to sort of fail.
[51:27.720 -> 51:32.200] And then, but actually they detach themselves from the result.
[51:32.200 -> 51:35.760] I'd say the captain and selectors of, you know, he only scored 10 or he only scored
[51:35.760 -> 51:41.160] 20 instead of 50, but actually that 20 played in exactly the fashion we're asking him to
[51:41.160 -> 51:42.160] play in.
[51:42.160 -> 51:47.800] He was incredibly, so if we keep giving him that, um, a longer rope and
[51:47.800 -> 51:51.760] we continue to give the same message to him and trust him and back him, he
[51:51.760 -> 51:56.260] will repay us in time as opposed to changing that message and saying,
[51:56.320 -> 51:59.280] actually, you know, we need you to bat a little bit longer here, or we need
[51:59.280 -> 52:04.160] you to score a few more runs or don't take as much risk as never that message.
[52:04.160 -> 52:09.000] I feel like from the top never wavered and I think that's how you sort of created a really
[52:09.000 -> 52:13.000] consistent and positive environment.
[52:13.000 -> 52:26.660] So can I ask you then around the art of switching off, Josh, because you've mentioned a couple of times that you're obviously a father of two young daughters and I can imagine that you've just been away
[52:26.660 -> 52:29.020] for 11 weeks in the IPL.
[52:29.020 -> 52:32.660] They're incredibly tough for you on a personal level.
[52:32.660 -> 52:35.420] What ideas or techniques have you learned
[52:35.420 -> 52:38.740] about the ability to switch off from your professional life
[52:38.740 -> 52:42.380] and switch back onto your personal life?
[52:42.380 -> 52:45.140] No, so it's always, again, a bit of a constant one,
[52:45.140 -> 52:47.620] a bit of constant evolving.
[52:47.620 -> 52:49.780] At certain times it feels easier to switch off
[52:49.780 -> 52:52.220] with say reading or watching films
[52:52.220 -> 52:55.400] or some mind-numbing Netflix that you just sort of,
[52:55.400 -> 52:57.120] trash TV, sort of get into.
[52:57.120 -> 52:58.900] And of course, when I'm at home,
[52:58.900 -> 53:00.460] I think that's when it's the easiest
[53:00.460 -> 53:02.220] because I literally, you know,
[53:02.220 -> 53:03.940] you've got that sense of guilt at times
[53:03.940 -> 53:13.000] that you've been away and you just want to immerse yourself in being home and sort of spending as much time as I can playing and just watching them develop and being around them.
[53:13.000 -> 53:25.320] So that's probably the easiest. It's probably harder when you're away. And more so, we've spent a lot of time in like a COVID bubble environment where you can't leave the hotel.
[53:25.320 -> 53:30.160] Once you're in, you do some quarantine and then you're in until it's the end of the tournament
[53:30.160 -> 53:31.800] or the series.
[53:31.800 -> 53:35.880] So instead of those simple things of sort of at the end of a day's play being like,
[53:35.880 -> 53:40.200] right, let's go for some dinner and you sort of switch off and think about stuff.
[53:40.200 -> 53:42.680] So that stuff is impossible.
[53:42.680 -> 53:45.920] So that's been harder to do.
[53:49.120 -> 53:50.240] I haven't really explained any sort of techniques I'm using there, but
[53:51.720 -> 53:56.080] I think context is key. Yeah. So, you know, trying to find different things that you're interested in.
[53:56.080 -> 54:00.080] I love sport. So, you know, the weekends are great for me when I love
[54:00.440 -> 54:04.720] watching the sport, whether it's the football, the F1 or something.
[54:04.720 -> 54:09.240] Rugby's on telly and sort of watching that to try and escape my, my
[54:09.240 -> 54:10.960] world or my thoughts, I guess.
[54:11.160 -> 54:12.680] But what does it actually do for you?
[54:13.920 -> 54:16.000] Cause I think a lot of people feel to become the best in the world, they've
[54:16.000 -> 54:17.280] got to be switched on all the time.
[54:17.440 -> 54:19.440] You know, it's a constant improvement, you know?
[54:19.880 -> 54:21.840] Yeah, I think it gives you energy, actually.
[54:21.920 -> 54:29.720] I think it gives you much more motivation. So I got left out of the test team to the West Indies
[54:29.720 -> 54:30.880] just before the IPL.
[54:30.880 -> 54:32.400] I just kind of knew that was going to happen
[54:32.400 -> 54:33.240] and I was fine with that.
[54:33.240 -> 54:35.520] I left the Ashes with a broken finger
[54:35.520 -> 54:37.800] and I actually didn't pick up a cricket bat for two months
[54:37.800 -> 54:39.040] before I went to the IPL.
[54:39.040 -> 54:40.600] And I just had pure time.
[54:40.600 -> 54:42.360] I just needed an escape from the game.
[54:42.360 -> 54:43.600] I didn't want to,
[54:43.600 -> 54:45.520] I had no interest in actually picking up a bat.
[54:45.520 -> 54:48.880] And I think that's again, sort of having that trust in listening to
[54:48.880 -> 54:53.360] yourself to say, I probably, you know, like you said, if you're trying to
[54:53.360 -> 54:56.440] get better at something, you need to do more of it, actually, you know, for
[54:56.440 -> 54:58.200] me, it was the case of the opposite.
[54:58.200 -> 55:00.680] I needed to do absolutely nothing to do with it.
[55:00.760 -> 55:04.520] Um, you know, went on a holiday, which, you know, travel a lot, but
[55:04.520 -> 55:05.200] actually going on
[55:05.200 -> 55:12.280] a real holiday is very few and far between. That was great. Just spending time with family
[55:12.280 -> 55:17.320] and having a real escape from it. So then I felt like when I turned up in India, I started
[55:17.320 -> 55:22.680] batting again. I remember why I love doing this. I had so much energy and motivation
[55:22.680 -> 55:27.200] for it. And I think that's a good lesson in terms of cricket.
[55:27.200 -> 55:28.360] You think, well, I need to get better.
[55:28.360 -> 55:29.600] I need to go to the nets more.
[55:29.600 -> 55:31.360] Well, maybe you need to have more balance.
[55:31.360 -> 55:34.800] Maybe you need to work more on the mental side of your game.
[55:34.800 -> 55:36.560] Maybe you need to work more on your fitness.
[55:36.560 -> 55:39.280] It doesn't just have to be the skill
[55:39.280 -> 55:42.740] that is actually gonna improve your performance.
[55:42.740 -> 55:46.160] It could be certain other little aspects that are going to then
[55:46.160 -> 55:51.440] transfer into your game. So we hear lots of people that we've interviewed on the podcast,
[55:51.440 -> 55:56.880] Josh, talk around like the mental, the physical, the tactical and the technical, and they often
[55:56.880 -> 56:03.680] talk about balance in relation to those four areas. Is there anything else that we're missing
[56:03.680 -> 56:05.920] that we need to incorporate in our
[56:05.920 -> 56:10.800] sense of balance? Not really, I can think of that. I think it's probably going to be a little bit
[56:10.800 -> 56:14.320] different for everyone as to what those exact things, you know, whether it's like, say,
[56:14.320 -> 56:20.080] if it's sport or your home life or things. I really believe in balance. I think it's,
[56:20.080 -> 56:30.040] now I know there'll have been people on the podcast who you've had great success through being incredibly sort of unbalanced and selfish.
[56:30.040 -> 56:32.000] And I know I play a selfish game already.
[56:32.000 -> 56:36.120] And I try and maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better by thinking I have balance.
[56:36.120 -> 56:40.280] But I think that's incredibly healthy for me.
[56:40.280 -> 56:42.520] It's something I kind of strive for.
[56:42.520 -> 56:45.760] So working out what that looks like to you.
[56:45.760 -> 56:49.880] And actually, if it's, if it doesn't, if you want to be the best snooker
[56:49.880 -> 56:53.080] player in the world, and you think you need to practice for 10 hours a day,
[56:53.080 -> 56:57.320] every day, and that's, you really believe that and commit to that, then maybe.
[56:57.920 -> 56:59.560] No, that's what's going to get you there.
[56:59.800 -> 57:02.600] We're about to move on to our quick fire questions, Joss.
[57:02.720 -> 57:09.000] But before we do that, I'd love to know if there's one, if you would point us in the direction of one thing that we don't know
[57:09.000 -> 57:13.260] about you or one area that we haven't yet tapped into that you think people listening
[57:13.260 -> 57:14.800] to this podcast need to understand.
[57:14.800 -> 57:19.120] I'd say it's that sort of determined competitive side.
[57:19.120 -> 57:24.160] I think that probably the best thing you could do is come and watch me play warmup football,
[57:24.160 -> 57:29.680] run around like Roy Keane, shouting at people and trying to hack people's legs down. So I think just
[57:29.680 -> 57:35.520] so that people see that I do have a different side. That's where I've had a few drinks,
[57:35.520 -> 57:37.320] that sort of side can come out a bit more.
[57:37.320 -> 57:43.080] I remember the press asking me about that once in a media interview after a game in
[57:43.080 -> 57:49.120] Bangladesh and I just said, well, maybe you don't know me that well then because I'd had a bit of a flashpoint with a
[57:49.120 -> 57:55.600] player in the opposition. But yeah, I'd certainly say there's that sort of side to me. It doesn't
[57:55.600 -> 58:00.480] get talked about as much. And how important is that side? Incredibly important. I think if I
[58:00.480 -> 58:10.120] lose that, I wouldn't have the drive and determination to play and try and be the best and to try and become as good as I can.
[58:10.120 -> 58:15.100] So I think if I lose that, it's probably when I know my time has come.
[58:15.100 -> 58:21.240] But how do you manage it so you can harness the power of that mongrel mentality without
[58:21.240 -> 58:22.560] it crossing over?
[58:22.560 -> 58:29.920] I quite like that. Without it crossing over. How often have've been called a mongrel.
[58:29.920 -> 58:32.080] You know what I mean though, Josh?
[58:32.080 -> 58:35.360] Why I'm in cricket is probably, you know, you can't go around kicking people or hitting
[58:35.360 -> 58:36.360] people with your bat.
[58:36.360 -> 58:38.840] So that certainly doesn't come out in that.
[58:38.840 -> 58:44.440] But just being aware that it's part of me and I truly believe it's there and I really
[58:44.440 -> 58:45.520] like it that I have it.
[58:45.520 -> 58:50.640] It doesn't mean I have to be in your face and shouting at you to be competitive or have that
[58:50.640 -> 58:58.480] edge. But I think I definitely need that energy to have it as well. I think speaking about having
[58:58.480 -> 59:05.120] some time off that sort of couple of months, that I had a break from the game, going back into that
[59:05.120 -> 59:10.080] sort of mongrel, as you said, and that competitiveness and, and will to be the
[59:10.080 -> 59:12.960] best I can be was, was really sort of recharged.
[59:13.660 -> 59:14.040] Brilliant.
[59:14.280 -> 59:14.620] Right.
[59:14.620 -> 59:17.020] We've reached the point of our quick fire questions, Joss.
[59:17.020 -> 59:20.040] And as a, as a listener to the podcast, you'll be expecting some of them.
[59:20.480 -> 59:23.760] First of all, what are your three non-negotiables that you and the
[59:23.760 -> 59:25.680] people around you have to buy into?
[59:25.680 -> 59:26.680] Yeah.
[59:26.680 -> 59:30.520] So three non-negotiables, obviously authenticity, um, would be one.
[59:30.520 -> 59:33.440] Um, I think humility is the big one for me.
[59:33.440 -> 59:35.240] Uh, and I'd say balance.
[59:35.240 -> 59:36.240] Yeah.
[59:36.240 -> 59:39.440] I think for me, you've got to have some form of balance in your life.
[59:39.440 -> 59:42.360] Where were you, where are you and where are you going?
[59:42.360 -> 59:43.360] Yeah.
[59:43.360 -> 59:46.120] So where was, I'd say I was potential.
[59:46.120 -> 59:48.880] I'd describe myself as someone with potential.
[59:48.880 -> 59:52.400] I'd say where I am now is certainly close to
[59:52.400 -> 59:54.520] having fulfilled that and certainly have much more
[59:54.520 -> 59:57.040] knowledge around that and where I'm going,
[59:57.040 -> 01:00:00.000] which is a tough one for me to try and work out.
[01:00:00.000 -> 01:00:02.440] It's like, I want it to be almost unattainable.
[01:00:02.440 -> 01:00:04.240] It's, can I fulfill that potential?
[01:00:04.240 -> 01:00:06.040] Can I reach the top of the mountain?
[01:00:06.040 -> 01:00:06.780] Can I get there?
[01:00:06.920 -> 01:00:10.080] Um, and if I don't get there, then I'll fail on my own terms.
[01:00:10.360 -> 01:00:10.840] Wonderful.
[01:00:11.040 -> 01:00:14.660] What message would you give to a teenage Joss who's just starting
[01:00:14.660 -> 01:00:16.440] out, be it in cricket or in life?
[01:00:16.920 -> 01:00:17.880] Uh, be yourself.
[01:00:17.920 -> 01:00:21.800] Um, I, I definitely tell myself to really be yourself.
[01:00:21.880 -> 01:00:28.320] Um, no, I think I'm, I'm good at that at certain times. And I think I'd flip into that where I'd lose that.
[01:00:28.320 -> 01:00:31.280] So just to try and live that more often,
[01:00:31.280 -> 01:00:35.080] to be yourself and have self-awareness, I think.
[01:00:35.080 -> 01:00:38.040] I think that's actually a bit of a,
[01:00:38.040 -> 01:00:39.800] I think you actually need to spend some time
[01:00:39.800 -> 01:00:42.880] with certain people maybe to sort of work out who you are
[01:00:42.880 -> 01:00:49.280] and what you're about and what the things you like, the things you don't like. So actually go through that process of self-awareness.
[01:00:49.920 -> 01:00:53.200] If you could go back to one moment of your life, what would it be and why?
[01:00:53.760 -> 01:01:00.560] The 2019 World Cup final, having just taken the bails to win the game, that 30 seconds,
[01:01:00.560 -> 01:01:05.360] a minute of running around that field at Lord's of pure elation is the best
[01:01:05.360 -> 01:01:09.520] feeling I've ever felt on a cricket field. So I'd love to relive that.
[01:01:09.520 -> 01:01:11.680] How long did that elation last for?
[01:01:11.680 -> 01:01:17.200] A while, yeah, a few days. But yeah, we went straight into the action. And that's another
[01:01:17.200 -> 01:01:21.840] great lesson. I did some interviews after that thinking, you know, I'll never feel pressure
[01:01:21.840 -> 01:01:29.400] again in cricket. I can just freewheel the rest of my career. I'm so happy and content now that we've won the World Cup. And then
[01:01:29.400 -> 01:01:33.920] a week later, all those feelings are coming back of, I'm nervous. I feel, you know, it's
[01:01:33.920 -> 01:01:38.800] like, what an idiot for actually thinking that. But it's a good lesson to learn that
[01:01:38.800 -> 01:01:42.120] just winning the World Cup actually didn't change anything really.
[01:01:42.120 -> 01:01:46.120] You're not an idiot. I mean, how could you, how could you not, how could you know how it's going to feel
[01:01:46.120 -> 01:01:47.880] when you've won a world cup until you win a world cup?
[01:01:47.880 -> 01:01:51.200] And then you realize that your brain constantly wants more.
[01:01:51.200 -> 01:01:53.480] It's, it's never quite fed enough, is it?
[01:01:53.480 -> 01:01:55.200] And the final question, Joss, and you know,
[01:01:55.200 -> 01:01:56.480] this has been such an interesting
[01:01:56.480 -> 01:01:59.000] and wide ranging varied conversation.
[01:02:00.160 -> 01:02:01.160] For the people listening to this,
[01:02:01.160 -> 01:02:02.960] your one final message really,
[01:02:02.960 -> 01:02:04.440] from all the things that you've learned over the years
[01:02:04.440 -> 01:02:09.280] for living a high performance life. Yeah, I think, you know, for living the best
[01:02:09.280 -> 01:02:13.760] version of your life, have that self-awareness, who you are, what you're about, spend time and
[01:02:13.760 -> 01:02:19.040] sort of what do you want from life or what do you want from your work or from your sport or your
[01:02:19.040 -> 01:02:28.320] home life sort of, and trying to work towards that and realizing it doesn't have to happen tomorrow. Um, no, be consistent, be disciplined, um, take your time.
[01:02:28.960 -> 01:02:33.680] Um, and, um, to always believe, I think is a, is a great one that, you know, that
[01:02:33.880 -> 01:02:35.120] tomorrow could be a great day.
[01:02:35.120 -> 01:02:38.080] You never quite know that when that brilliant day is going to come.
[01:02:38.080 -> 01:02:39.440] So it keeps driving towards that.
[01:02:39.960 -> 01:02:40.520] That's lovely.
[01:02:40.560 -> 01:02:45.880] I mean, what I've really nice kind of, I want to use the word gentle conversation, Damien,
[01:02:45.880 -> 01:02:47.480] but I don't want anyone to listen to that
[01:02:47.480 -> 01:02:50.020] and think in any ways it's kind of like a negative.
[01:02:50.020 -> 01:02:52.360] It's gentle, Damien, in a really positive way
[01:02:52.360 -> 01:02:55.040] that we can have a conversation with someone like Joss,
[01:02:55.040 -> 01:02:56.880] who's competing at the level that he's competing at
[01:02:56.880 -> 01:02:58.240] and is achieving what he's achieving,
[01:02:58.240 -> 01:03:01.720] but with a real kind of a serenity and a calmness
[01:03:01.720 -> 01:03:04.320] and an ever-growing understanding of actually
[01:03:04.320 -> 01:03:06.480] that there's so much more floating around here.
[01:03:06.480 -> 01:03:12.120] And if you get caught up in the tiny little nuances of life, then it can be, it can derail
[01:03:12.120 -> 01:03:13.120] you.
[01:03:13.120 -> 01:03:14.560] Oh, it's been a privilege to listen to Joe.
[01:03:14.560 -> 01:03:21.200] So I've made a note of your three non-negotiables of authenticity, humility, and balance, and
[01:03:21.200 -> 01:03:23.880] you've lived them throughout the last hour.
[01:03:23.880 -> 01:03:24.880] So thank you.
[01:03:24.880 -> 01:03:25.000] No, thanks guys. I've really enjoyed it. It's been a pleasure to be on the pod. and you've lived them throughout the last hour. So thank you.
[01:03:25.000 -> 01:03:25.840] No, thanks guys.
[01:03:25.840 -> 01:03:26.760] I've really enjoyed it.
[01:03:26.760 -> 01:03:28.720] It's been a pleasure to be on the pod.
[01:03:28.720 -> 01:03:29.560] So thank you.
[01:03:33.520 -> 01:03:34.360] Damien.
[01:03:34.360 -> 01:03:35.200] Jake.
[01:03:35.200 -> 01:03:36.720] What a fascinating individual.
[01:03:36.720 -> 01:03:39.760] I think for me, what summed up his entire approach,
[01:03:39.760 -> 01:03:42.920] not just to cricket, but probably to life as well,
[01:03:42.920 -> 01:03:44.280] was when we finished that recording,
[01:03:44.280 -> 01:03:47.600] because sadly it was a shame we couldn't do it in person we had to do it remotely but
[01:03:47.600 -> 01:03:53.200] we finished the recording and and then before he signed off he went yeah apologies if I
[01:03:53.200 -> 01:03:57.720] if I spoke too much about myself. You think hold on this is an interview with you about
[01:03:57.720 -> 01:04:03.920] your life having just had one of the best you know few months of your whole career and
[01:04:03.920 -> 01:04:05.860] you're apologizing for talking about yourself
[01:04:05.860 -> 01:04:09.940] I love it, but that's him. I think isn't it? Yeah, I think that's a really beautiful
[01:04:10.500 -> 01:04:15.440] anecdote to share with listeners Jake because I think it encapsulates the essence of
[01:04:15.880 -> 01:04:20.160] Of the person that we've been lucky enough to speak to their humble self-effacing
[01:04:20.680 -> 01:04:26.000] Got his life in some in a huge kind of perspective ymdrechion, gael ei bywyd mewn pwysicau gwahanol. Roedd yn ddifrifol iawn.
[01:04:26.000 -> 01:04:28.000] Ac nid wyf yn gallu mynd i'w meddwl bod y cyfrifiad yr oedd yn ei
[01:04:28.000 -> 01:04:32.000] sôn gyda ni, sydd wedi dod o hyd
[01:04:32.000 -> 01:04:35.000] yn oed yn ei gyrfa, yn rhan fawr i chwarae yn hynny,
[01:04:35.000 -> 01:04:38.000] o ran ei gallu i ddiffyg y gwahaniaeth
[01:04:38.000 -> 01:04:41.000] rhwng ei feddwlau, ei sylwadau a'i gwaith,
[01:04:41.000 -> 01:04:42.000] ac i wneud syniad o'u gwaith.
[01:04:42.000 -> 01:04:44.000] Rydyn ni'n defnyddio'r ddau llinell honno o
[01:04:44.000 -> 01:04:45.280] gallu edrych yn ôl ar yr hyn sydd wedi'i gwrthi a newid ychydig o syniadau, behaviors and make sense of them. You know, he used that great line about being able to look back on what he'd
[01:04:45.280 -> 01:04:49.780] written and change a couple of sentences and therefore change the way he felt
[01:04:49.780 -> 01:04:53.560] about a challenge and the way he was going to shape up to behave in it is a
[01:04:53.560 -> 01:04:58.300] really great example that anyone can take and adopt if they're facing
[01:04:58.540 -> 01:05:00.460] similar situations to Josh.
[01:05:01.000 -> 01:05:04.140] I'll tell you something else that leapt out at me during when we had the
[01:05:04.140 -> 01:05:11.400] conversation with Mel Robbins and she said, hey, how's cynicism working for you?
[01:05:11.400 -> 01:05:14.400] When we said, you know, there will be people that are cynical about high-fiving in the
[01:05:14.400 -> 01:05:18.080] mirror and there are people who are cynical, right, about all these kind of like short
[01:05:18.080 -> 01:05:22.760] quotes or little motivational messages or, you know, even us making this podcast, you
[01:05:22.760 -> 01:05:29.360] know, the biggest criticism I get and actually comes predominantly from interestingly from from people who
[01:05:29.360 -> 01:05:31.920] work in football media I think it's because they just don't think that a
[01:05:31.920 -> 01:05:36.200] football presenter should be doing this kind of thing but they like they love to
[01:05:36.200 -> 01:05:39.360] sort of have a little pop or have a little go or it sort of make light of it
[01:05:39.360 -> 01:05:43.760] or reference Ricky Gervais or whatever but here's the reality that guy was
[01:05:43.760 -> 01:05:45.680] playing in a cricket World Cup final
[01:05:45.680 -> 01:05:49.280] and he used two words that transformed the way that he played the game
[01:05:49.280 -> 01:05:51.920] and the fact that, you know, he was successful in that match.
[01:05:51.920 -> 01:05:54.000] And it's a reminder that we can stand on the sidelines,
[01:05:54.000 -> 01:05:57.280] we can snipe, we can be critical, we can be cynics all we like,
[01:05:57.280 -> 01:05:58.800] or we just go, do you know what?
[01:05:58.800 -> 01:06:02.000] Maybe this positive stuff actually does work.
[01:06:02.000 -> 01:06:06.160] Yeah, again, like one of my favorite quotes is the
[01:06:06.160 -> 01:06:11.480] is a Teddy Roosevelt man in the arena, you know, that unless you're out there in
[01:06:11.480 -> 01:06:15.800] the arena getting the lessons taught you in the harshest possible way and
[01:06:15.800 -> 01:06:19.740] whatever your arena is it doesn't matter, you know, I think it's easy to sit on the
[01:06:19.740 -> 01:06:24.360] side and snipe and criticize but like Joe said if if those two simple words of
[01:06:24.360 -> 01:06:25.520] fuck it do
[01:06:25.520 -> 01:06:29.400] it for him and just put him in a different mental state that allows him to go out and
[01:06:29.400 -> 01:06:34.920] feel better and therefore perform who are we to judge it or to say that that's inappropriate
[01:06:34.920 -> 01:06:40.120] or it's trite it works for him and he's and he's kind enough to come and share that and
[01:06:40.120 -> 01:06:48.160] allow us to maybe explore it and take it and apply it in our own lives. And it was also another worthwhile reminder from someone at the top of his
[01:06:48.160 -> 01:06:50.080] game that adversity and failure
[01:06:50.080 -> 01:06:53.280] are useful, in fact they're actually necessary
[01:06:53.280 -> 01:06:57.000] for developing a strong mind and a strong mind can lead to a successful
[01:06:57.000 -> 01:06:57.640] life.
[01:06:57.640 -> 01:07:02.080] Yeah, yeah exactly. You know none of this stuff happens in straight lines,
[01:07:02.080 -> 01:07:11.280] Josh's experience in 2015 of sort of being dropped from the England team and having the Nid yw'r rhai o'r pethau hyn yn digwydd yn y straig liniau, unig yw'r profiad yn 2015 o ychydig o fod yn cael ei ddod o'r tîm Cymru ac mae'r gwirionedd cyhoeddus
[01:07:11.280 -> 01:07:16.960] arnyn nhw i drafod eu gwaith a'r lle y mae angen iddyn nhw gwella. Mae'n amgylchedd
[01:07:16.960 -> 01:07:21.600] gwirioneddol iawn i unrhyw un i ddod o'r ffordd, ond rwy'n credu ei fod wedi'i rannu gyda ni.
[01:07:21.600 -> 01:07:28.080] Mae'n dweud pa mor fwyaf yn fwy agwedd, pa mor dda, pa mor effeithiol yw e, he's shared with us, he's how much stronger, how much better, how much more effective he is for having gone through that. So it's one of your
[01:07:28.080 -> 01:07:31.960] favourite stoic quotes Jake, that what is sometimes hard for us isn't
[01:07:31.960 -> 01:07:36.360] necessarily bad for us and that's and Joss again has reinforced that message.
[01:07:36.360 -> 01:07:40.040] Brilliant, I really loved the conversation and I hope you do as well
[01:07:40.040 -> 01:07:44.560] at home. Thanks a lot Damien. Thanks Jake, I loved it.
[01:07:47.000 -> 01:07:51.840] at home. Thanks a lot, Damien. Thanks Jake, I loved it. Well, I really hope you enjoyed that. I absolutely did. Just a quick reminder that you can really
[01:07:51.840 -> 01:07:57.080] change the trajectory of this podcast. Okay, I can't say this more clearly. If you have
[01:07:57.080 -> 01:08:01.120] listened to High Performance, either this is your first episode or you've listened to
[01:08:01.120 -> 01:08:09.200] them all, and it's impacted you, there's only one thing I want you to do and that's share it. I don't care whether you share
[01:08:09.200 -> 01:08:11.760] it by ringing a friend and telling them to listen. I don't care whether you put
[01:08:11.760 -> 01:08:15.160] it in a whatsapp group. I don't care if you stick it on your Instagram. It
[01:08:15.160 -> 01:08:19.560] doesn't have to be overtly done. It can be done on the quiet. But let's grow this
[01:08:19.560 -> 01:08:22.760] community. Let's keep on spreading the lessons and the learnings from this
[01:08:22.760 -> 01:08:26.200] series. Let's keep telling the world that it's about empathy
[01:08:26.200 -> 01:08:28.600] It's not about opinion that it's about understanding
[01:08:29.600 -> 01:08:33.400] Let's make the world a better place by sharing the high-performance podcast
[01:08:33.400 -> 01:08:36.080] And if you can do that for us, I will be forever grateful
[01:08:36.440 -> 01:08:39.320] Thank you so so much for being part of this movement
[01:08:39.760 -> 01:08:45.740] Thanks as well to Finn from rethink audio to Hannah to will Hannah, to Will, to Eve, to Gemma, for the whole team on the podcast.
[01:08:45.740 -> 01:08:49.320] But please, finally, remember, there is no secret.
[01:08:49.320 -> 01:08:51.060] It is all there for you.
[01:08:51.060 -> 01:08:53.100] So chase world-class basics.
[01:08:53.100 -> 01:08:54.980] Don't get high on your own supply.
[01:08:54.980 -> 01:08:59.020] Remain humble, curious, and empathetic,
[01:08:59.020 -> 01:09:02.080] and spread the word about this podcast.
[01:09:03.100 -> None] We'll see you soon. you