E123 - Steve Clarke (Re-release): World Cup play-off special

On the day (Wednesday 1st June) of the emotional World Cup play-off game between Scotland vs Ukraine, we revisit an edited version of our conversion with Scotland manager Steve Clarke. The game was postponed in March after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, so this is the first competitive match Ukraine have been able to play since the declaration of war.

Steve's greatest achievement has been reversing the years of underperformance of the national football team, taking them to their first major tournament in over 20 years, and determined for them not to be one tournament wonders. Steve is searing in his honesty and inspiring with his humility. Listen to Steve explain how he's preparing his team for one of the most important games in their history.

This podcast was recorded live at the Queen’s Hall in Edinburgh. 

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**Navigating the Challenges of International Football Management: A Conversation with Scotland Manager Steve Clarke**

1. **High-Performance Mindset:**

- Steve Clarke defines high performance as a pathway to success, emphasizing that success is not always measured by trophies but by the journey and the growth of the team.

2. **Early Influences and Shaping His Coaching Philosophy:**

- Growing up in Scotland, football was a central part of Clarke's life.
- He worked in a factory at 16, learning valuable lessons about honesty, integrity, and resilience.
- His experiences as a player in the Ayrshire Junior League further toughened him up and taught him to stand up for himself.

3. **Creating a Positive Dressing Room Culture:**

- Clarke values honesty and respect in the dressing room.
- He believes in fostering a culture where players respect each other and work together towards a common goal.
- He emphasizes the importance of creating an environment where players feel comfortable expressing themselves and taking risks.

4. **Adapting to the National Team Environment:**

- Clarke acknowledges the unique challenges of managing a national team compared to a club team.
- He highlights the limited time he has with the players and the need to quickly establish a culture and tactical approach.
- He emphasizes the importance of building relationships with the players and gaining their trust.

5. **Tactical Shifts and Personnel Decisions:**

- Clarke explains his decision to switch to a three-at-the-back formation for the Scotland national team.
- He discusses the rationale behind selecting certain players for specific positions, such as Kieran Tierney as a left center-back and Lyndon Dykes as a striker.
- He emphasizes the importance of adapting tactics and personnel based on the strengths and weaknesses of the team and the opposition.

6. **Motivating and Inspiring Players:**

- Clarke reveals his approach to motivating and inspiring players, including having honest conversations about their roles and potential.
- He highlights the importance of building confidence in players and making them believe in themselves and the team's ability to succeed.
- He emphasizes the role of senior players in setting a positive example and driving the team forward.

7. **Overcoming Historical Failures and Building Belief:**

- Clarke acknowledges the history of underperformance for the Scotland national team and the need to change the culture and mindset of the players.
- He discusses the importance of instilling belief and confidence in the players, emphasizing that they can be successful if they play with anticipation of success rather than fear of failure.

8. **The Importance of World-Class Basics:**

- Clarke stresses the significance of mastering the fundamentals of football, referring to them as "world-class basics."
- He believes that if a team gets the basics right, they have a solid foundation for success.
- He emphasizes the importance of perfect practice, attention to detail, and a commitment to continuous improvement.

9. **Learning from Managerial Greats:**

- Clarke reflects on his experiences working with renowned managers like Ruud Gullit, José Mourinho, Kenny Dalglish, and Bobby Robson.
- He highlights the valuable lessons he learned from each of them, particularly in terms of organization, attention to detail, and man management.

10. **Dealing with Criticism and Injustice:**

- Clarke acknowledges that football managers often face criticism and injustice.
- He emphasizes the importance of not seeking credit or validation from others but focusing on doing the right thing and supporting his players.
- He shares his experience of being sacked as manager of West Bromwich Albion and how he learned from that setback.

11. **Convincing Club Owners and Directors of His Vision:**

- Clarke explains his approach to convincing club owners and directors to buy into his vision and entrust him with the responsibility of managing their team.
- He emphasizes the importance of being authentic, presenting his ideas clearly, and allowing them to make the decision based on their assessment of his capabilities.

12. **Adapting to the Changing Landscape of Football:**

- Clarke acknowledges the evolving nature of football and the need for managers to adapt to new trends and challenges.
- He emphasizes the importance of staying up-to-date with tactical developments, player recruitment strategies, and technological advancements in the sport.

13. **Advice for Aspiring Coaches:**

- Clarke advises aspiring coaches to be passionate about the game, to work hard, and to learn from experienced managers and coaches.
- He emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, staying humble, and being open to feedback.
- He encourages aspiring coaches to be patient and persistent in their pursuit of a successful coaching career.

# Steve Clarke: Preparing for the Crucial World Cup Playoff Games

In this captivating podcast episode, we delve into an insightful conversation with Scotland's manager, Steve Clarke, as he gears up for the highly anticipated World Cup playoff games. With the emotional backdrop of the Scotland vs Ukraine match, Clarke reflects on his remarkable journey in transforming the national team's performance, leading them to their first major tournament in over two decades.

## The Road to Redemption: Reversing Years of Underperformance

Clarke's greatest achievement lies in his ability to reverse years of underperformance, instilling a renewed sense of purpose and determination within the team. His unwavering belief in his players and his meticulous approach to tactics and strategy have been instrumental in their resurgence.

## The Significance of the Playoff Games: A Chance to Make History

With the World Cup playoff games looming, Clarke recognizes the immense significance of these matches. He emphasizes the team's unwavering commitment to not be mere one-tournament wonders and their burning desire to make history by securing a place in the prestigious tournament.

## Preparing the Team for the Challenge: Balancing Emotion and Execution

As Clarke prepares his team for the daunting task ahead, he emphasizes the delicate balance between emotional intensity and maintaining composure during the crucial matches. He urges his players to embrace the unwavering support of the Tartan Army and to play with freedom and confidence, avoiding the pitfalls of letting emotions overwhelm their performance.

## A Message of Encouragement: Trust in the Team's Abilities

Clarke's message to his players is one of unwavering belief and encouragement. He implores them to trust in their abilities, to seize the opportunity, and to leave everything on the pitch. He assures them that the Tartan Army stands behind them, ready to cheer them on every step of the way.

Overall, this podcast episode offers a compelling insight into the mindset and preparations of Scotland's manager, Steve Clarke, as he leads his team into the pivotal World Cup playoff games. His honesty, humility, and unwavering belief in his players paint a picture of a leader who is determined to guide Scotland to新たな栄光へと導く決意を固めたリーダーの姿が描かれている。

[00:00.000 -> 00:03.760] Hey everyone, welcome along to this special re-released episode of High Performance.
[00:03.760 -> 00:07.040] You can probably hear it's slightly noisy where I am. Florence, say hello.
[00:07.040 -> 00:07.680] Hi!
[00:07.680 -> 00:08.960] Tell everyone where are we.
[00:08.960 -> 00:09.840] We're in Paris.
[00:09.840 -> 00:10.960] And what are we doing?
[00:10.960 -> 00:12.960] We're queuing up to go into a museum.
[00:13.680 -> 00:15.440] Which she is delighted about, obviously.
[00:16.160 -> 00:17.840] But anyway, yeah, I am still in Paris.
[00:17.840 -> 00:20.960] But listen, the team were chatting on WhatsApp and we decided that with
[00:20.960 -> 00:24.400] a huge game coming up for Scotland, now would be a good time to re-release
[00:24.400 -> 00:27.920] our conversation with the Scotland manager Steve Clark. So we've
[00:27.920 -> 00:31.640] given it a bit of an edit and I think you'll really enjoy this. This is Steve
[00:31.640 -> 00:35.560] giving a really interesting look at the way he's shaping his Scotland squad.
[00:35.560 -> 00:38.880] Flo, move out the way. Sorry Florence is just getting in the way of some tourists.
[00:38.880 -> 00:42.480] How he's shaping his Scotland squad and how he's approaching a really huge game
[00:42.480 -> 00:48.460] in the history of Scotland football. Anyway I better get back to sightseeing in Paris but thanks
[00:48.460 -> 00:51.200] very much for your company during the football season for me and all the team
[00:51.200 -> 00:55.760] on BT Sport and enjoy this re-released episode of the High Performance podcast
[00:55.760 -> 01:01.120] with the Scotland manager Steve Clarke. Hey Flo say bye everyone. Bye everyone.
[01:01.120 -> 01:05.000] Well done Dylan. How often do we talk about high performance at home?
[01:05.000 -> 01:06.000] A lot.
[01:06.000 -> 01:07.000] Too much?
[01:07.000 -> 01:08.000] Yes.
[01:08.000 -> 01:09.000] There you go.
[01:09.000 -> 01:10.000] Right.
[01:10.000 -> 01:11.000] Enjoy the episode, guys.
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[03:56.960 -> 03:57.960] No.
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[04:03.200 -> 04:06.640] Well, you know how we start this podcast.
[04:06.640 -> 04:09.480] In your mind, what is high performance?
[04:09.480 -> 04:12.280] I told you when you first tried to get me
[04:12.280 -> 04:14.760] to come on and do this, and it wasn't for this live show,
[04:14.760 -> 04:16.760] it was for one of the recorded ones
[04:16.760 -> 04:18.940] that I didn't have a clue.
[04:18.940 -> 04:20.520] So I gave it a little bit of thought.
[04:20.520 -> 04:24.240] The best I could come up with was a pathway to success,
[04:24.240 -> 04:26.800] but probably the pathway is not really defined.
[04:26.800 -> 04:29.000] So you have to find your own way down the path.
[04:29.000 -> 04:30.600] And success is never defined either,
[04:30.600 -> 04:34.800] because success is not always lifting up a big silver trophy.
[04:34.800 -> 04:37.700] Success is measured in different types.
[04:37.700 -> 04:41.300] On football, for example, success when I went to West Brom
[04:41.300 -> 04:44.200] was to keep them in the English Premier League.
[04:44.200 -> 04:47.840] You've got to look for all the high performance i West Brom, oedd i'w gael ar y Liga Prifysgol Cymru. Mae angen i chi edrych ar yr holl gwaith cyhoeddiol y tu hwnnw
[04:47.840 -> 04:52.480] i gynnal y math o gyfansoddau y byddwch chi eisiau.
[04:52.480 -> 04:55.600] Gallwn ni siarad am y pethu oedd yn dechrau, Steve?
[04:55.600 -> 04:58.640] Oherwydd rwy'n gwybod eich bod chi'n grwpio ar y coed Ayrshire.
[04:58.640 -> 05:00.480] Mae eich stori chi'n ffasi'n,
[05:00.480 -> 05:02.400] yw nad oeddech chi'n mynd i ffwrdd i ffwrdd,
[05:02.400 -> 05:04.000] i'r amser cymaint.
[05:04.000 -> 05:08.000] A allwch chi ddweud ychydig am eich ffyrdd cyn i chi ddechrau i ffwrdd? is that you didn't get into football till relatively late. Would you tell us a bit about your journey before you got into football?
[05:08.000 -> 05:11.000] No, no. Listen, I was always into football.
[05:11.000 -> 05:15.000] In Scotland, when I was growing up, it was football or nothing.
[05:15.000 -> 05:16.000] That's what you did.
[05:16.000 -> 05:21.000] I came from a big family. My brother was a footballer, professionally.
[05:21.000 -> 05:23.000] My young brother wasn't quite good enough to be professional,
[05:23.000 -> 05:25.520] but had a decent footballing career.
[05:25.520 -> 05:29.360] My father was a good amateur player, got a really bad injury when he was young so never
[05:29.360 -> 05:32.000] made it to the top.
[05:32.000 -> 05:36.840] He always wanted his boys to play football but more than that he wanted us to be successful,
[05:36.840 -> 05:41.600] ambitious and at that time football didn't make any money, no money.
[05:41.600 -> 05:45.960] So when I left school, I was told to leave school at 16.
[05:45.960 -> 05:48.560] Wasn't going to university, none of that.
[05:48.560 -> 05:51.720] You're going to get a trade son, 16, leaving school,
[05:51.720 -> 05:54.200] going in a factory environment.
[05:54.200 -> 05:55.680] You soon grow up quite quick.
[05:55.680 -> 05:58.520] You know, you're working with wise old men
[05:58.520 -> 06:00.560] who are always looking to take the piss out
[06:00.560 -> 06:02.840] of the young apprentice.
[06:02.840 -> 06:04.280] So you grow up quick.
[06:04.280 -> 06:07.560] It was a good learning experience.
[06:07.560 -> 06:09.680] Obviously, the football career picked up a little bit.
[06:09.680 -> 06:12.960] I got farmed out to playing in the Ayrshire Junior League,
[06:12.960 -> 06:14.360] which also toughens you up.
[06:15.320 -> 06:19.600] Young boy, 16, 17, playing against seasoned,
[06:19.600 -> 06:21.440] hardened criminals, I would call them.
[06:21.440 -> 06:30.480] I learned how to look after myself and obviously at 18 I was
[06:30.480 -> 06:34.840] offered a part-time contract with St Marne. So what lessons did you learn say going into a
[06:34.840 -> 06:41.080] factory at 16 or playing in that Ayrshire League that you were still applying when you did end up
[06:41.080 -> 06:46.480] going to Chelsea and and going on to play it at sort of an elite level?
[06:46.480 -> 06:50.960] You just pick up the experience of all these people that you work with.
[06:50.960 -> 06:57.680] The fact that it's a different environment to a football dressing room is totally different,
[06:57.680 -> 06:59.680] but you get similar characters.
[06:59.680 -> 07:04.480] They're there, they're always testing you, you're always being tested as a young person in there.
[07:04.480 -> 07:07.120] Can you do this? Do you do that, they're always looking for you to make a
[07:07.120 -> 07:11.000] mistake to see how you react to the mistake. You get the ones who will try and
[07:11.000 -> 07:15.200] bully you and then you have to stand up to them, you have to recognize that
[07:15.200 -> 07:20.000] they're trying to bully you. You get the ones that will help you and look and go
[07:20.000 -> 07:22.920] out their way to help you, I met a lot of good really good people in the factory.
[07:22.920 -> 07:27.120] You just learn from these people and you try to take those values in. I think
[07:27.120 -> 07:32.840] all of them wanted you to be honest and straightforward. Don't get above your
[07:32.840 -> 07:36.480] station and if you did get above your station they knocked your head off. So it
[07:36.480 -> 07:40.720] was a good way to grow up and a good learning environment for me.
[07:40.720 -> 07:44.920] And how does that compare to the environment that you want to now create
[07:44.920 -> 07:47.720] as a coach or you do create as a coach? Can you see the
[07:47.720 -> 07:50.920] parallels between the two, particularly when it comes to the dressing room?
[07:50.920 -> 07:55.400] I like honesty in the dressing room, I like honesty in the people that I work with, right
[07:55.400 -> 07:59.360] through from the staff, right through into the players. How do you foster
[07:59.360 -> 08:05.600] that? I think by example, you try and be as honest as you can be yourself. Sometimes, football
[08:05.600 -> 08:11.460] management is not so easy to be completely honest, but you have to be as honest as you
[08:11.460 -> 08:12.460] can be.
[08:12.460 -> 08:15.000] Can you explain that for us, why it's not easy?
[08:15.000 -> 08:20.440] I think club management is different from the job I'm doing now, national team management,
[08:20.440 -> 08:24.320] because you just borrow the players. So you borrow the players for the national team.
[08:24.320 -> 08:29.280] They're not really your players. And it's a little bit easier. You bring them in,
[08:29.280 -> 08:32.960] you ask them to, they're there to represent their country, they all want to be there.
[08:32.960 -> 08:38.800] I think that's one of the things that we've managed to bring back into the national team.
[08:38.800 -> 08:42.640] It's a little bit of pride to be picked for the national team and go and play for them
[08:42.640 -> 08:49.280] now. When you're in a club environment, you have more time with them, you can work with them daily, you're
[08:49.280 -> 08:55.240] there all the time, so you can drip feed those values in all the time, you can smell something
[08:55.240 -> 09:00.760] in the dressing room. I think respecting football goes a long way. If your players within the
[09:00.760 -> 09:04.600] squad respect each other, I think you've got a chance.
[09:04.600 -> 09:08.000] You have such a limited time now with these players compared to their club managers.
[09:08.000 -> 09:14.000] So what do you do to put into place the process to let them know as soon as they arrive with the Scotland team
[09:14.000 -> 09:18.000] what the culture is like, what the expectation levels are, what your standards are
[09:18.000 -> 09:21.000] because you don't have weeks and weeks and weeks to build these players up.
[09:21.000 -> 09:26.800] You don't but over a number of camps you start to drip feed it in.
[09:27.360 -> 09:31.520] Listen, it wasn't an easy start. I'm looking at this group of players who'd been there before
[09:31.520 -> 09:35.920] and they'd had a long period of failure, failure, failure, we didn't qualify for this, didn't do
[09:35.920 -> 09:43.280] that. You're thinking I need to find a way to change the culture, the environment, how do I do
[09:43.280 -> 09:47.000] it? And I told the players that that was unacceptable.
[09:47.000 -> 09:52.000] It's probably the only time where I've lost my temper with the players.
[09:52.000 -> 09:55.000] Because they're not your players and you don't want to upset them
[09:55.000 -> 09:58.000] and you don't want to have a go at them because it's difficult to repair that.
[09:58.000 -> 10:01.000] Because you don't have the time that you have at a club.
[10:01.000 -> 10:03.000] But I was angry.
[10:03.000 -> 10:06.640] But between the November and the March, I'd already started thinking,
[10:06.640 -> 10:07.480] what are we going to do?
[10:07.480 -> 10:08.520] What are we good at?
[10:08.520 -> 10:10.840] Defensively, not great.
[10:10.840 -> 10:12.240] We need to change.
[10:12.240 -> 10:13.680] I phoned my coaches,
[10:13.680 -> 10:15.200] said we can't go back four.
[10:15.200 -> 10:16.480] I want to go back three.
[10:16.480 -> 10:18.760] I never coached a back three in my life.
[10:18.760 -> 10:20.600] Change for me, challenge for me,
[10:20.600 -> 10:22.200] challenge for my coaches.
[10:22.200 -> 10:23.320] The personnel we had,
[10:23.320 -> 10:25.840] we had probably two of the best left backs
[10:25.840 -> 10:31.440] in world football, Tierney and Robertson. Got to get them both in the same team. At that moment,
[10:31.440 -> 10:35.760] I didn't think the centre back options were great, so let's pick three.
[10:37.440 -> 10:38.000] Three's better than two.
[10:38.000 -> 10:39.120] We'll see if that makes it better.
[10:41.360 -> 10:46.480] But my idea on the centre backs was obviously to play play Tierney as one of them and I had this
[10:46.480 -> 10:49.620] mad idea that Scott McTominay could play the other one.
[10:49.620 -> 10:52.820] We were strong in midfield, I had good midfield players and I wanted to get at least three
[10:52.820 -> 10:56.560] midfield players, possibly four into the team, which is how I started.
[10:56.560 -> 10:59.640] I did fit four in.
[10:59.640 -> 11:01.720] Nothing up front, really.
[11:01.720 -> 11:07.480] Nothing great up front, we had one or two in one. I'm not trying to knock the boys down,
[11:07.480 -> 11:11.040] the boys that were turning up were doing everything they could to be to be successful
[11:11.040 -> 11:16.360] for us but I needed to find a striker. Fortunately I found an Australian one.
[11:16.360 -> 11:25.360] So I knew that Lyndon was available to come so I managed to have a conversation with Lyndon was available to come, so I managed to have a conversation with Lyndon that
[11:25.360 -> 11:29.880] persuaded him to come. I had a really good conversation with Kieran Tierney to tell him
[11:29.880 -> 11:34.200] that he was going to be the best left centre-back Scotland had ever had.
[11:34.200 -> 11:37.600] Can you give us a bit of insight into how that conversation went because this
[11:37.600 -> 11:41.400] is always interesting for people here that don't work in football it's about
[11:41.400 -> 11:51.040] what can they learn for bringing people on the journey with them. How did you get Kieran on the journey? Kieran had always a sort of method built up around Kieran
[11:51.040 -> 11:53.760] that he didn't want to come and play with the national team, which wasn't correct.
[11:54.400 -> 11:57.440] But I think he always felt that he was a better left back than Andy Robertson.
[11:58.000 -> 12:02.320] And if you look at the two of them, there's not a cigarette paper between them,
[12:02.320 -> 12:07.760] they're both fantastic players. So my job on that one was to persuade
[12:08.600 -> 12:15.160] Kieran that he was better than Andy and that's why I trusted Kieran to play less centre-back and not Andy
[12:15.880 -> 12:18.600] Now that's not, it's probably not strictly true
[12:19.280 -> 12:22.600] I had to sell it to Kieran. This is where I see you playing and
[12:23.360 -> 12:28.680] I'm not telling you you're a defensive centre-back now, we've got the best overlapping left centre-back
[12:28.680 -> 12:33.680] in world football probably because Kieran just goes and I'm standing on the
[12:33.680 -> 12:40.040] side, going, Kieran where you going? But it works, it works, it works well so
[12:40.040 -> 12:45.000] was to sell that position to Kieran was important.
[12:45.000 -> 12:47.120] And it was a really good conversation.
[12:47.120 -> 12:49.160] He asked a lot of really good questions.
[12:49.160 -> 12:51.640] I told him I loved him and I wanted him to play there.
[12:51.640 -> 12:53.240] And the conversation with Lyndon Dykes
[12:53.240 -> 12:55.800] was quite straightforward.
[12:55.800 -> 12:57.600] I said to Lyndon, listen,
[12:57.600 -> 13:00.720] I don't know if you feel Scottish or Australian.
[13:00.720 -> 13:03.200] I said, only you can decide.
[13:03.200 -> 13:04.440] I said, I'm telling you,
[13:04.440 -> 13:06.160] this is what we have in the national team.
[13:06.160 -> 13:08.040] This is what's in front of you.
[13:08.040 -> 13:09.840] This is your competition.
[13:09.840 -> 13:13.560] But you have to decide if you want to play for Scotland or you want to play for Australia
[13:13.560 -> 13:20.040] because I can't see inside your mind, I can't see inside your body how you feel.
[13:20.040 -> 13:24.760] And he phoned me back and he said, no, I'm Scottish, my wife's Scottish, my daughter's
[13:24.760 -> 13:26.440] Scottish and I want to play for the national team. And he phoned me back and he said, I'm Scottish, my wife's Scottish, my daughter's Scottish,
[13:26.560 -> 13:28.040] and I want to play for the national team.
[13:28.040 -> 13:30.000] And I think everyone would agree,
[13:30.000 -> 13:31.240] he's done quite well for us.
[13:31.240 -> 13:32.080] Yes.
[13:32.080 -> 13:36.120] But it's two different conversations.
[13:36.120 -> 13:37.920] So it's a conversation where you're trying
[13:37.920 -> 13:39.880] to sell a position to someone.
[13:39.880 -> 13:42.080] And the other conversation is,
[13:42.080 -> 13:43.640] you know you want to say to Dykes,
[13:43.640 -> 13:48.080] Dykes, you know you're Scottish, come on. But you have to let them make the decision.
[13:48.080 -> 13:53.980] Steve, I'm really interested to know what the likes of a Robertson or a McGinn brings
[13:53.980 -> 13:57.920] to that Scotland dressing room. Not just as great footballers, but what do they bring
[13:57.920 -> 13:58.920] as people?
[13:58.920 -> 14:10.000] Personality, especially McGinn. I think the boys who play in the English Premier League, they bring an assuredness to the squad, a confidence.
[14:10.000 -> 14:14.000] Andy Robertson has won the Champions League, he's been club world champion.
[14:14.000 -> 14:19.000] He brings an assuredness to the squad. Kieran Tierney is down there playing now.
[14:19.000 -> 14:22.000] Scott McTominay is not shy of confidence, plays at Man United.
[14:22.000 -> 14:28.580] You see his performances every week, he's on that pitch, he puffs out his chest. And they bring an assurance to the squad that
[14:28.580 -> 14:33.460] everyone else buys into. You've got the captain of Celtic, you've got a future captain
[14:33.460 -> 14:37.340] of Arsenal, captain Andy playing at Liverpool, you've got McTominay could be a captain
[14:37.340 -> 14:46.680] at Man United, you've got McGinn could be a captain anywhere. So you've got leaders you've got people like Grant Hanley, Captain
[14:46.680 -> 14:53.840] Norwich as you well know so we've got so many good people in the squad and I
[14:53.840 -> 15:00.520] think that has also been a process of trying to get good people in trying to
[15:00.520 -> 15:05.720] sell the idea that we can be successful. We can be successful.
[15:06.920 -> 15:09.520] You've got to get that over to them. Yes, come on, you gotta believe.
[15:09.520 -> 15:12.560] But this is like, see, I think that reaction though,
[15:12.560 -> 15:14.360] even that reaction is really interesting
[15:14.360 -> 15:17.240] because I think if you're in London
[15:17.240 -> 15:18.080] and Gareth Southgate says,
[15:18.080 -> 15:19.160] yeah, we can be successful,
[15:19.160 -> 15:20.360] straight away everyone's like,
[15:20.360 -> 15:22.480] yes, we can be successful.
[15:22.480 -> 15:23.880] Here there's still a hesitancy,
[15:23.880 -> 15:26.300] there's still a, oh, okay, maybe. Like,. Here, there's still a hesitancy. There's still a, oh, okay, maybe.
[15:26.300 -> 15:29.200] Like, it seems that it's still a process
[15:29.200 -> 15:33.480] unpicking all of those previous years, as you describe,
[15:33.480 -> 15:36.000] trying to qualify, not qualifying, second in manager,
[15:36.000 -> 15:38.320] then doing it again and repeating.
[15:38.320 -> 15:39.680] And there was always great players.
[15:39.680 -> 15:41.880] Scotland's always had great players.
[15:41.880 -> 15:44.600] I'd love to know psychologically,
[15:44.600 -> 15:46.720] A, how deep-rooted was that
[15:46.720 -> 15:54.620] mindset of, well, we don't qualify, we just play qualifying matches, and whether you underestimated
[15:54.620 -> 15:58.360] actually how deep that went and how hard you had to work to recover from it.
[15:58.360 -> 16:03.000] I definitely underestimated it, and it was something we had to shake, but we shook it
[16:03.000 -> 16:06.000] in probably the most Scottish way that you could.
[16:06.000 -> 16:09.000] Because in the playoff final against Serbia,
[16:09.000 -> 16:12.000] I thought we were magnificent for 90 minutes,
[16:12.000 -> 16:14.000] and then in injury time,
[16:14.000 -> 16:17.000] so you're 1-0 up, and you're thinking, one more corner.
[16:17.000 -> 16:19.000] Come on, lads, just defend it.
[16:19.000 -> 16:21.000] LAUGHTER
[16:21.000 -> 16:24.000] Nah, nah, we'll concede a goal.
[16:24.000 -> 16:27.000] So we'll go 1-1, and you're're thinking, oh my God, here we go again.
[16:27.000 -> 16:34.000] Scotland, glorious failures. Because the performance from the first minute to the 90th minute before we conceded,
[16:34.000 -> 16:42.000] I thought was as good as anything that I'd seen in a long time for a Scottish team going away to a difficult opponent in Serbia.
[16:42.000 -> 16:45.600] And you're on the sideline you're thinking oh no surely not again
[16:45.600 -> 16:49.440] surely because I don't think we could have recovered for the heart of that if we hadn't
[16:49.440 -> 16:53.520] if we hadn't qualified I certainly couldn't have recovered for the heart of that because
[16:54.080 -> 16:59.600] I knew how close we were and how well we'd played and I remember saying to them the last thing I
[16:59.600 -> 17:05.440] said to them before that there was 28 people in the room. I said this is your chance to
[17:05.440 -> 17:10.000] go and do it. I said but don't burden yourself with what's happened before
[17:10.000 -> 17:14.200] because we cannot affect what's happened before. And the last thing I said to them
[17:14.200 -> 17:19.720] was don't play with the fear of failure, try to play with the anticipation of
[17:19.720 -> 17:29.900] success. And I think we did that up until that goal and then after that we just hung on
[17:29.900 -> 17:34.100] and we clung on but obviously you can see the goal in the last minute 1-1 you
[17:34.100 -> 17:38.100] come together the group and I was worried for them and then you start to
[17:38.100 -> 17:41.500] hear the voices, your Robertsons, McGinn was off the pitch at the time but in the
[17:41.500 -> 17:45.360] group around Kenny McLean, Ryan Jack, Karl MacGregor,
[17:46.320 -> 17:50.960] and there was a determination, we're still in the competition, we've still got a chance to go
[17:50.960 -> 17:56.560] through, let's make sure next 30 minutes we give everything on the pitch and we get there. Okay,
[17:56.560 -> 18:00.960] we had to go to penalties, it was a bit nerve-wracking, but that desire was still there,
[18:00.960 -> 18:08.160] so as a coach I'm thinking, we're all alright, I didn't need to say too much. How did you learn to step out of your own way there?
[18:08.160 -> 18:13.060] Because I can imagine at that moment, there's a danger of your ego kicking in of, I need
[18:13.060 -> 18:17.500] to come in and deliver a great speech and get them fired up, and yet you've described
[18:17.500 -> 18:19.360] that you actually stepped out of the way.
[18:19.360 -> 18:23.500] I didn't need to be there.
[18:23.500 -> 18:25.320] You know your group, you know your players,
[18:25.320 -> 18:27.480] you know what they're thinking,
[18:27.480 -> 18:28.800] you know the journey they've been on
[18:28.800 -> 18:31.640] and you know how determined they were to be successful.
[18:31.640 -> 18:34.240] And it didn't need a big speech.
[18:34.240 -> 18:37.560] It was keep it simple, keep the basics,
[18:37.560 -> 18:40.320] don't make mistakes, stay in the game.
[18:40.320 -> 18:41.160] And we did that.
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[20:55.800 -> 20:58.560] So when we were talking in the first half an hour
[20:58.560 -> 21:01.260] and we mentioned world-class basics,
[21:01.260 -> 21:03.160] did that ring a bell with you?
[21:03.160 -> 21:04.400] I think if you get the basics right,
[21:04.400 -> 21:07.080] you've got the foundation to do anything you want.
[21:07.080 -> 21:12.160] I'd never thought about world-class basics, but I think football is a really simple game.
[21:12.160 -> 21:17.640] And if you do get the basics right, and you've got good talent, then you have a chance to
[21:17.640 -> 21:18.640] be successful.
[21:18.640 -> 21:22.560] But if you don't get the basics right, everything falls apart.
[21:22.560 -> 21:25.320] So in terms of world-class basics, yeah I suppose it
[21:25.320 -> 21:29.660] comes down to the sort of perfect practice makes perfect, not practice
[21:29.660 -> 21:33.460] makes perfect. That was what I was always told was perfect practice makes perfect.
[21:33.460 -> 21:38.240] You've coached alongside some quite stellar names whether it's Ruud
[21:38.240 -> 21:43.440] Holle or you worked with Mourinho in his first spell at Chelsea.
[21:43.440 -> 21:45.120] Sir Bobby Robson. So Bobby Robson.
[21:45.120 -> 21:46.120] So Bobby Robson.
[21:46.120 -> 21:47.120] Kenny.
[21:47.120 -> 21:55.800] So tell us then, what was the consistent traits that you saw in those guys that we could learn
[21:55.800 -> 21:56.800] from?
[21:56.800 -> 21:58.240] The top three.
[21:58.240 -> 22:07.880] Top three Marinho organisation, attention to detail, Kenny man management, Bobby Robson man management for sure was probably
[22:07.880 -> 22:14.320] one of the best in terms of man management. Bobby not someone you'd look at his coaching
[22:14.320 -> 22:18.320] sessions and go wow I want to copy that. But when he spoke to a player and you were in
[22:18.320 -> 22:23.480] the room and you listened to him, you got emotional and you got excited for the player
[22:23.480 -> 22:24.480] that he was talking to.
[22:24.480 -> 22:27.440] Can you remember a time when you sat there and heard a conversation and thought,
[22:27.440 -> 22:31.040] this is amazing, this is something that I need to learn from?
[22:31.040 -> 22:34.400] Yeah, early with Bobby, it was obviously rude.
[22:34.400 -> 22:37.680] I'd been at Newcastle just over a year, it didn't work out.
[22:37.680 -> 22:42.960] He persuaded me to leave my London home, move up to the North East,
[22:42.960 -> 22:48.520] uprooted my family, took them all up and then one year later he was scribbling a note after a game.
[22:48.520 -> 22:52.200] So what you doing lovely boy? Which is what everybody called lovely boy. I'm
[22:52.200 -> 22:57.800] just writing a note. It was his resignation but he didn't tell me.
[22:57.800 -> 23:03.520] Woke up the next morning he left. Thanks Ruud. And a lot of his issues up there
[23:03.520 -> 23:09.560] had stemmed from the fact that him and Alan Shearer are two big egos, didn't quite get on. Best of mates now by the way, they both
[23:09.560 -> 23:15.400] work in the media and they love each other. But at that time, nothing was, every day,
[23:15.400 -> 23:20.640] every day was difficult. So we didn't get the best out of Alan, Ruud couldn't get the
[23:20.640 -> 23:25.480] best out of him. And Bobby came in, and I remember Bobby said,
[23:25.480 -> 23:27.240] I'm going to have a chat with Alan tonight, son.
[23:27.240 -> 23:31.000] Before we played, we were actually back at Chelsea.
[23:31.000 -> 23:32.800] So we were at Chelsea Harbour Hotel,
[23:32.800 -> 23:35.160] and he brought Alan into the room,
[23:35.160 -> 23:39.400] and honest to God, he made the guy feel 10 feet tall.
[23:39.400 -> 23:41.080] I felt 10 feet tall for Alan.
[23:43.080 -> 23:44.960] It was unbelievable, you're going to be the main man,
[23:44.960 -> 23:45.480] you are the main man, hasn't worked out for you, you're going to be the main man, you are the main
[23:45.480 -> 23:50.400] man, it hasn't worked out for you, you're a goal scorer son, you're going to lead the
[23:50.400 -> 23:54.160] line, you're number 9 at Newcastle, you went through all Jackie Milburn, all the great
[23:54.160 -> 24:00.920] number 9s that played at Newcastle, you are the man. Out the next day I lost 1-0 at Chelsea,
[24:00.920 -> 24:07.000] never scored, hardly got a kick, Chelsea were better than us. Next week, homey, Sheffield Wednesday, 8-0.
[24:07.000 -> 24:09.000] Shearer, four goals.
[24:09.000 -> 24:12.000] And from there, Shearer was back.
[24:12.000 -> 24:17.000] And that was just on the back of one really good conversation
[24:17.000 -> 24:22.000] from somebody who knew how to massage an ego
[24:22.000 -> 24:25.760] and make someone feel good about themselves again and make someone feel
[24:25.760 -> 24:30.920] really important and that was a big lesson. So here's a question then, do you
[24:30.920 -> 24:35.160] feel you get the credit you deserve for the management career that you've had? I
[24:35.160 -> 24:41.040] don't look for credit, it doesn't bother me and people look at you and say, listen
[24:41.040 -> 24:45.800] everybody likes to be loved, Everybody likes to be appreciated.
[24:48.200 -> 24:49.240] But if the credit doesn't come, it doesn't come. I can live with that.
[24:49.240 -> 24:53.040] As long as I know I can go to my bed every night and say,
[24:53.040 -> 24:54.520] I'm doing the right job.
[24:54.520 -> 24:56.120] I'm trying to do the right things.
[24:56.120 -> 24:58.280] I'm trying to be good at what I do.
[24:58.280 -> 25:00.200] And I've got the love and support of my family.
[25:00.200 -> 25:01.300] That's enough for me.
[25:02.200 -> 25:06.000] Lovely. APPLAUSE
[25:12.000 -> 25:15.000] I look at, you know, a really good example, I think,
[25:15.000 -> 25:19.000] of where many of us would choose not to be football managers
[25:19.000 -> 25:22.000] is that amazing eighth place in the Premier League for West Brom
[25:22.000 -> 25:24.000] and fired four months later.
[25:24.000 -> 25:29.680] Do you not allow ever a sense of injustice to build up or do you have to learn to accept that
[25:29.680 -> 25:34.800] that is the life of a manager? That was my first sacking and they say you're not really a manager
[25:34.800 -> 25:41.600] till you get sacked so I was a manager after that. But I'd also prepared when I was coming
[25:41.600 -> 25:46.240] towards the end of my playing career and I played in a time where you didn't
[25:46.240 -> 25:50.480] finish as a millionaire, you didn't finish with loads of money, you just had a good living
[25:50.480 -> 25:54.760] wage, if you saved a little bit you could have a nice little pension, you would only
[25:54.760 -> 25:55.840] have to go and get another job.
[25:55.840 -> 25:58.880] I was fortunate I managed to stay in football.
[25:58.880 -> 26:04.240] And then from there, did I feel, I felt a little bit aggrieved that I'd lost my job
[26:04.240 -> 26:05.000] at West Brom. Did I deserve to lose felt a little bit aggrieved that I'd lost my job at West Brom.
[26:05.000 -> 26:08.000] Did I deserve to lose my job? Probably not.
[26:08.000 -> 26:12.000] We went to Cardiff, lost 1-0.
[26:12.000 -> 26:15.000] And you're driving back on the bus to the training ground,
[26:15.000 -> 26:19.000] no phone call for the director of football,
[26:19.000 -> 26:22.000] no phone call for the chairman, no phone call from anybody.
[26:22.000 -> 26:25.840] You're driving back and you think, they're obviously not very happy with me. You drive into the training ground and you see the light on in the chairman's office. nid yw'r ffôn yn cael ei ddweud o unrhyw un. Rydych chi'n mynd yn ôl a'ch credu, maen nhw'n amlwg ddim yn ddigon hyfryd gyda mi.
[26:25.840 -> 26:27.040] Rydych chi'n mynd i'r ystafell gynhyrchu
[26:27.040 -> 26:29.760] a gweld y llwyr yn ystafell y Cyfarwyddwr
[26:29.760 -> 26:30.720] ac ydych chi'n mynd yn dweud,
[26:30.720 -> 26:31.920] Bye bye,
[26:31.920 -> 26:33.760] see you lads.
[26:33.760 -> 26:36.240] Felly gallwn ni gofyn o anghenion gwahanol yna,
[26:36.240 -> 26:39.080] oherwydd rydych chi'n amlwg yn ymweld â'r cyfrifiad i gael swydd,
[26:39.080 -> 26:42.320] felly rydyn ni wedi sôn amdano pan wnaethwch chi ddod o swydd.
[26:42.320 -> 26:43.840] A allwch chi ddweud wrthym y broses
[26:43.840 -> 26:46.080] o sut ydych chi'n cyfathrebu'r Cyfarwyddwr neu'r gynhyrchwyr o glwb neu'r Cyfarwyddwr o ffotbol about when you've lost a job. Can you tell us about the process of how you convince the chairman or
[26:46.080 -> 26:51.600] the owner of a club or director of football to buy into your vision and to entrust you with the keys
[26:51.600 -> 26:57.760] to that dressing room? The process is quite simple, you just sit down, you be yourself. I don't do
[26:57.760 -> 27:06.480] presentations, I just sit down, I tell them what my ideas are, what I think I can bring to the football club,
[27:06.480 -> 27:08.120] and then I let them choose.
[27:08.120 -> 27:10.120] And I haven't had that many managerial jobs.
[27:10.120 -> 27:13.520] I mean, it was West Brom, was Reading for a year,
[27:13.520 -> 27:16.800] I lost the job at Reading because I made a mistake
[27:16.800 -> 27:19.680] of speaking to Fulham and then staying at Reading.
[27:19.680 -> 27:20.980] Don't know why I did that.
[27:22.000 -> 27:23.560] But things happen for a reason.
[27:27.440 -> 27:34.000] And then I had the job at Kil Comarnock, which went very well, and then I've had a national team job. So I haven't had too many...
[27:34.000 -> 27:38.080] But in an age where you hear about managers sort of coming up with really slick PowerPoint
[27:38.080 -> 27:45.480] presentations and being able to speak the lingo of the sort of the values of a club and things like that
[27:45.480 -> 27:51.280] for you to be almost anachronistic by just coming in and being yourself do you
[27:51.280 -> 27:56.080] feel that that puts you at a disadvantage? No I think if you can sell
[27:56.080 -> 28:01.220] yourself you've got a better chance than some flashy presentation that somebody
[28:01.220 -> 28:07.240] else is prepared and you're presenting. If you want me to do the job I can do the job, if you don't want me to do the job
[28:07.240 -> 28:12.000] thanks very much I'll try somewhere else. And now it brings us up to the current
[28:12.000 -> 28:16.800] day and you've got the small matter of a couple of playoff games coming up. Yeah
[28:16.800 -> 28:22.600] can't wait, it's been a long break. Tell us on the crowd, tell us how you're
[28:22.600 -> 28:32.880] feeling then ahead of these two. That's good, obviously we finished the group stage very well, six consecutive wins.
[28:32.880 -> 28:37.960] It's tough to do, two great nights at Hamden with a close call against Israel.
[28:37.960 -> 28:42.760] We managed to nick a goal in the last minute and obviously the game against Denmark was
[28:42.760 -> 28:48.480] a fantastic performance and a good night. And great for everyone. And you just feel there's a little positivity around with
[28:50.000 -> 28:54.080] the following, the supporters of the Tatar army are getting excited, which is great,
[28:54.080 -> 28:57.120] because I know the players are excited for it, the players are looking forward to it.
[28:57.760 -> 29:05.760] It is going to be a tough game. Ukraine is a good team, really well organised. If I say that you look at
[29:05.760 -> 29:12.200] the four teams, ourselves, Ukraine, Wales, Austria, for me it's a 25% chance for everybody.
[29:12.200 -> 29:17.760] We'll go there, we'll give our best and hopefully our best will be good enough.
[29:17.760 -> 29:21.640] Would you just give us an insight into what your message will be for those players ahead
[29:21.640 -> 29:25.520] of that period because it's about being up for
[29:25.520 -> 29:30.560] it but not being so up for it that emotion takes over and it negatively impacts the performance.
[29:31.280 -> 29:34.480] Please whatever you do lads when you go out in front of this show house at Hampden,
[29:34.480 -> 29:40.480] the Tartan Army, they're there, they're there to support you. Go and play, don't freeze.
[29:41.040 -> 29:48.000] And I think if we do that we can get through the first game and then you have to go away Wales or Austria bring it on.
[29:48.000 -> 29:50.920] It's been an absolute pleasure so thank you very much for giving up your evening
[29:50.920 -> None] in front of the crowd. Ladies and gentlemen, your manager, Steve Cahn! You