E118 - Chase & Status: How to harness the power of obsession

Chase & Status are an electronic music duo comprised of Saul Milton and Will Kennard. They have released five studio albums and have worked with the likes of Rhianna, PlanB and CeeLo Green. This year they will be releasing their 6th studio album. 

Saul and Will are known for their privacy, but in this conversation they open up about their failures and successes as artists, their intense work ethic and their obsession with music: “almost verging on a sort of sickness”. They share how they always knew they would succeed at what they do, not achieving their goals was never an option for them.

Their new album 'What Came Before' will be released in June.

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Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode transcript:

# "Chase & Status: The Art of Obsession and High Performance"

**Summary**

In this episode of the High-Performance Podcast, host Jay Comfrey engages in a captivating conversation with Will Kennard and Saul Milton, the renowned electronic music duo Chase & Status. The discussion delves into the duo's journey to success, their unwavering passion for music, and the concept of obsession as a driving force in their artistic pursuits.

**Key Points**

* **Obsession as a Creative Catalyst:** Will and Saul candidly share how their intense obsession with music, bordering on a "sickness," fueled their determination to succeed as artists. This obsession became a positive force, leading them to relentlessly pursue their goals and achieve remarkable accomplishments.

* **Nurturing Passion:** The duo emphasizes the importance of nurturing passion and turning it into a viable career. They recount the challenges they faced in the early days, including working odd jobs to support themselves while dedicating countless hours to honing their craft.

* **Strategic Planning:** Will and Saul reveal their strategic approach to breaking into the music industry. They explain how they meticulously studied the career paths of successful artists, identified key players in the industry, and built relationships with individuals who could help them advance their goals.

* **Overcoming Rejection and Doubt:** The conversation highlights the duo's resilience in the face of rejection and self-doubt. They acknowledge the numerous setbacks they encountered along the way, including moments when they questioned their abilities and considered giving up. However, their unwavering belief in themselves and their unwavering determination kept them moving forward.

* **The Pressure of Success:** Will and Saul candidly discuss the pressures that came with achieving success. They reveal how the expectations and demands of the music industry sometimes led to creative struggles and internal conflict. They emphasize the importance of finding a balance between maintaining artistic integrity and meeting commercial demands.

* **The Evolution of Their Sound:** Chase & Status reflect on the evolution of their musical style over the years. They explain how they constantly pushed themselves to explore new genres and incorporate diverse influences into their music, resulting in a unique and ever-evolving sound that resonated with audiences worldwide.

* **The Power of Collaboration:** The duo credits collaboration as a significant factor in their success. They discuss the value of working with other artists, producers, and musicians, highlighting how these collaborations brought fresh perspectives and helped them create innovative and groundbreaking music.

* **The Importance of Live Performances:** Will and Saul emphasize the significance of live performances in their career. They describe the electrifying energy of connecting with fans in a live setting and the role that these performances played in building a loyal and dedicated fan base.

**Overall Message**

Chase & Status' journey serves as an inspiring example of how passion, obsession, and unwavering determination can lead to extraordinary achievements. Their story highlights the importance of embracing challenges, nurturing creativity, and constantly pushing boundaries to achieve high performance in any field.

# Podcast Episode Summary: "Chase & Status: The Art of Obsession and Success"

## Episode Overview:
In this episode of the High Performance Podcast, hosts Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes engage in a captivating conversation with electronic music duo Chase & Status, comprised of Saul Milton and Will Kennard. The discussion delves into the duo's journey to success, their unwavering work ethic, and their unique approach to maintaining a balance between ambition and personal life.

## Key Points and Insights:
* **Drive and Ambition:** Chase & Status emphasize the importance of ambition and competitiveness as driving forces behind their success. They reveal that they always aimed to be the best, believing that anything less than absolute excellence was unacceptable.
* **Risk-Taking and Innovation:** The duo attributes their success to their willingness to take risks and push boundaries. They recall their early days when they were known for drawing tunes on each other, which eventually evolved into a competitive spirit that fueled their creativity.
* **Avoiding the Trappings of Success:** Chase & Status share their strategy for avoiding the pitfalls of fame and complacency. They explain that they have always been focused on their work and have never been driven by praise or criticism. This mindset has allowed them to remain grounded and continue pushing forward.
* **World-Class Basics:** The hosts introduce the concept of "world-class basics," which refers to the consistent habits and behaviors that contribute to high performance. Chase & Status highlight the importance of reliability, showing up for commitments, and putting themselves in challenging situations, even when it's uncomfortable.
* **Overcoming Imposter Syndrome:** The duo candidly discuss their experiences with imposter syndrome, particularly when working with high-profile artists like Rihanna. They reveal that they often feel self-doubt and anxiety but overcome these feelings by focusing on the opportunity and reminding themselves of their capabilities.
* **Balancing Obsession and Personal Life:** Chase & Status acknowledge the challenges of maintaining a healthy work-life balance. They admit that their obsessive nature can sometimes be difficult for their partners and families. However, they believe that the sacrifices they have made have been worth it in the long run.
* **Building a Successful Team:** The hosts explore how Chase & Status manages their large team for their live shows. The duo emphasizes the importance of trust, letting people do their jobs, and avoiding micromanagement. They credit their success to surrounding themselves with talented and passionate individuals who share their vision.

## Conclusion:
The conversation with Chase & Status provides valuable insights into the mindset, work ethic, and strategies that have contributed to their success in the music industry. Their emphasis on ambition, innovation, and a relentless focus on improvement serves as inspiration for anyone seeking to achieve high performance in their chosen field. The episode also highlights the importance of building a strong team and maintaining a healthy balance between personal life and career aspirations.

**Navigating the Music Industry: A Dialogue with Chase & Status**

In this podcast episode, electronic music duo Chase & Status, comprised of Saul Milton and Will Kennard, engage in a candid conversation about their journey in the music industry, their creative process, and the challenges and triumphs they have encountered along the way.

**Key Points:**

1. **Obsession with Music:** Both Saul and Will share their intense passion for music, describing it as "almost verging on a sort of sickness." This obsession fuels their relentless pursuit of excellence and drives their creative output.

2. **Importance of Collaboration:** Saul emphasizes the significance of collaboration, both with other artists and within their own partnership. He views collaboration as an art form that, when done well, can lead to powerful results.

3. **Honesty and Dedication:** Will stresses the importance of honesty and dedication in achieving success. He believes that these traits, particularly in the early stages of a career, can take individuals far in their pursuit of goals.

4. **Sacrifices for Success:** Both Saul and Will acknowledge the sacrifices they made in their personal lives to prioritize their music careers. They spent countless hours in the studio, dedicating themselves fully to their craft.

5. **Legacy and Longevity:** Saul expresses his desire for Chase & Status to end their journey on a high note, leaving a lasting legacy in the music industry. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a strong fan base and continuing to create great music.

6. **Early Career Highlights:** Saul and Will recall some of the most exciting moments in their early careers, such as receiving phone calls from record labels and renowned artists expressing interest in working with them. These moments provided immense motivation and validation for their efforts.

**Memorable Quotes:**

- "I'm going to do this with you guys, I'm going to make this work." - Saul Milton, describing the feeling of receiving a phone call from a record label expressing interest in signing Chase & Status.

- "Learning the art of collaboration is probably the most powerful thing you can do." - Saul Milton, emphasizing the importance of collaboration in achieving success in the music industry.

- "Honesty and dedication, they will get you very, very far." - Will Kennard, highlighting the significance of these traits in achieving success.

**Overall Message:**

Chase & Status's journey in the music industry is a testament to their unwavering dedication, relentless pursuit of excellence, and the power of collaboration. Their story serves as an inspiration to aspiring artists and entrepreneurs, demonstrating the importance of hard work, sacrifice, and a genuine passion for one's craft.

# High Performance Podcast Episode Summary: Chase & Status

**Guests:** Saul Milton and Will Kennard, electronic music duo Chase & Status

**Topics Discussed:**

* The duo's early days in Manchester and their journey to success
* Their intense work ethic and obsession with music
* The importance of knowing you will succeed and not letting go of your goals
* Their upcoming sixth studio album, 'What Came Before'

**Key Points:**

* Chase & Status always knew they would be successful in music. They did not see it as arrogance, but rather as a superpower that allowed them to take risks and work incredibly hard.
* They spent years honing their craft, networking with people in the music industry, and creating a brand for themselves.
* They were not afraid to work hard and sacrifice to achieve their goals, even when it meant going against the grain or taking unconventional paths.
* Their success is a testament to the power of hard work, perseverance, and self-belief.
* Their new album, 'What Came Before,' is a culmination of years of work and is a reflection of their growth and evolution as artists.

**Memorable Quotes:**

* "We knew we were gonna be successful. It was just how we were gonna get there." - Saul Milton
* "I think it's really important we just pick out that a bit because what they're not saying is we were arrogant and we believed it was just going to happen for us." - Jake Humphrey
* "They spoke about it almost as like a superpower so that the fact they knew they were going to be successful allowed them to quit uni. It allowed them to stay in Manchester. It allowed them to put themselves in situations that most people wouldn't be in, but most importantly of all, it allowed them to work hard." - Jake Humphrey
* "There's a brilliant book by a guy called Steven Presley, I think called, uh, the war of art. And it's about, you always show up. You don't wait for inspiration to descend." - Jake Humphrey
* "You go in and you do the work and inspiration follows that you never miss, uh, an appointment time you turn up and you apply to everybody that's in the studio you're working with." - Jake Humphrey
* "And that's what Will and Saul were telling us there, that it was about the hard work. They never got high on their own supply." - Jake Humphrey
* "They'd do a big show, they'd be successful, and they were going away and planning, how do we do that better? They were doing that analysis." - Jake Humphrey
* "And for those people that are listening to us talk now, thinking, well, how does this apply to my life? I would say that the hard work allows you to fail, and it allows you to not be successful because if they release their most recent album and it doesn't sell or they go on tour and people don't buy tickets, they can still say, well, you know what? We gave it 100%. We were laser focused." - Jake Humphrey

**Overall Message:**

Chase & Status's story is an inspiring reminder that success is not a given. It requires hard work, dedication, and a belief in oneself. Their journey is a testament to the power of perseverance and the importance of never giving up on your dreams.

[00:00.000 -> 00:07.040] Hi there, I'm Jay Comfrey, you're listening to High Performance, our gift to you for free
[00:07.040 -> 00:08.300] every single week.
[00:08.300 -> 00:14.320] If you can subscribe and rate this podcast, please do, it makes a huge difference to us.
[00:14.320 -> 00:18.620] As many of you know by now, this podcast turns the lived experiences of the planet's highest
[00:18.620 -> 00:21.200] performers into your life lessons.
[00:21.200 -> 00:26.200] So right now, just pause and allow myself and Professor Damien Hughes to speak
[00:26.200 -> 00:28.640] to the greatest leaders, thinkers, sports stars
[00:28.640 -> 00:31.600] and entrepreneurs on the planet for you
[00:31.600 -> 00:33.780] so they can become your teacher.
[00:33.780 -> 00:36.720] Remember, this podcast is not about high achievement
[00:36.720 -> 00:40.640] or high success, it's about high happiness
[00:40.640 -> 00:43.720] and taking you closer to a life of fulfillment,
[00:43.720 -> 00:46.240] empathy and understanding.
[00:46.240 -> 00:51.240] Today, on the High Performance Podcast, this awaits you.
[00:51.440 -> 00:53.080] How old are we, 22, 23, back then,
[00:53.080 -> 00:54.340] well, however old it was,
[00:54.340 -> 00:58.560] things that I enjoyed doing were making music,
[00:58.560 -> 01:02.040] DJing, maybe DJing my tunes out at a nightclub.
[01:02.040 -> 01:04.000] See, fast forward 19 years.
[01:04.000 -> 01:05.600] What do I enjoy doing? Making music, DJing, playing my tunes at a nightclub. So you fast forward 19 years. What do I enjoy doing?
[01:05.600 -> 01:08.800] Making music, DJing, playing my tunes at a nightclub.
[01:08.800 -> 01:09.700] What do I do every weekend?
[01:09.700 -> 01:10.540] Exactly that.
[01:11.600 -> 01:14.360] Part of that is the sort of competitive nature in us.
[01:14.360 -> 01:16.800] And I don't really know where that comes from.
[01:16.800 -> 01:18.200] I can't place it in myself.
[01:18.200 -> 01:20.600] I mean, you know, it's inbuilt.
[01:20.600 -> 01:21.680] But they're very ambitious.
[01:21.680 -> 01:22.640] And it was like, it wasn't like,
[01:22.640 -> 01:24.600] let's just try and do well.
[01:24.600 -> 01:29.120] It was, let's be the absolute best. Self-doubt and questioning every
[01:29.120 -> 01:32.720] session we go to if it's someone else and we've made a whole load of beats
[01:32.720 -> 01:38.480] beforehand I'm anxious thinking, man, they're not going to like this.
[01:38.480 -> 01:43.200] What are these 12 songs that we spent ages making of garbage and we're totally out of sync?
[01:43.200 -> 01:50.720] We've always forced each other and ourselves just to always always turn up and that means sort of metaphorically and physically
[01:52.400 -> 01:59.480] So today we talked to will and Saul two men who created chase and status and they talk about their passion when they were
[01:59.480 -> 02:02.300] Younger they talk about the doubts from their friends and their family
[02:02.400 -> 02:05.840] They talk about the fact it would have been so much easier
[02:05.840 -> 02:08.080] to give up on their dream.
[02:08.080 -> 02:09.480] Now, what about hard work?
[02:09.480 -> 02:11.880] Where does hard work and high performance come together?
[02:11.880 -> 02:14.400] Saul talks really passionately and really deeply
[02:14.400 -> 02:17.960] about obsession, almost to the point of it being an illness.
[02:17.960 -> 02:20.540] But this conversation I know is gonna be valuable to you.
[02:20.540 -> 02:21.820] And let me just remind you,
[02:21.820 -> 02:24.520] it doesn't matter if you're not even a fan of their music.
[02:24.520 -> 02:27.320] It doesn't matter if you come to this podcast for business people
[02:27.320 -> 02:31.640] or sports people or entertainers or entrepreneurs the key for these
[02:31.640 -> 02:36.000] conversations is to come to them with a growth mindset with an open mind because
[02:36.000 -> 02:41.880] there will be things right now that Will and Saul Chase and Status will say that
[02:41.880 -> 02:46.980] will change the way you see the world. It's a conversation that is full of value
[02:46.980 -> 02:51.340] So, please enjoy it. Don't forget you can also watch these episodes. We'd love it
[02:51.340 -> 02:54.340] If you would go to our YouTube channel just type in high-performance
[02:54.780 -> 02:57.080] Subscribe and you can watch as well as listen
[02:57.080 -> 03:02.140] I think you see a little bit more when you actually see the whites of people's eyes while they're talking about the things they have
[03:02.140 -> 03:06.300] Passion for and that is really the center of today's conversation.
[03:06.600 -> 03:08.700] Passion without hard work is just passion.
[03:09.400 -> 03:11.700] Hard work without passion is just hard work.
[03:12.200 -> 03:14.200] And Will and Saul are living,
[03:14.200 -> 03:18.500] breathing reminders of what happens when you mix passion with real,
[03:18.700 -> 03:21.100] genuine, deep hard work.
[03:21.600 -> 03:23.100] So thanks very much for coming along.
[03:23.300 -> 03:30.000] It's time to get you closer to your own version of high-performance. Today's episode with Chase and Status
[03:30.000 -> 03:39.000] comes next. As a person with a very deep voice I'm hired all the time for
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[04:07.040 -> 04:11.480] LinkedIn ads allows you to focus on getting your B2B message to the right people.
[04:11.480 -> 04:16.640] So does that mean you should use ads on LinkedIn instead of hiring me, the man with the deepest
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[04:18.040 -> 04:20.240] Yes, yes it does.
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[06:18.480 -> 06:21.680] Well, well, so thank you so much for joining us on high performance
[06:21.680 -> 06:26.280] Let's start as we always do with, what is your definition of high performance?
[06:26.280 -> 06:29.680] And for the first time we get two answers, not just one.
[06:29.680 -> 06:31.980] Yeah, I wonder if you have different answers.
[06:32.900 -> 06:34.320] God, big question.
[06:35.580 -> 06:37.580] I think for me, I mean,
[06:37.580 -> 06:40.060] obviously we perform in the literal sense,
[06:40.060 -> 06:42.740] but as artists, as recording artists
[06:42.740 -> 06:43.840] and performers on the stage,
[06:43.840 -> 06:48.160] but I think just in general for artists, for what we do,
[06:48.160 -> 06:52.960] the ability to kind of create original ideas,
[06:52.960 -> 06:56.360] which have some kind of intrinsic value,
[06:56.360 -> 07:00.320] is the real difficulty of what we do.
[07:00.320 -> 07:03.960] Anyone that can do that operates probably at a high level.
[07:03.960 -> 07:09.720] I get it's obviously extremely subjective, but, um, and I guess it would just kind of fall into my.
[07:11.120 -> 07:23.200] Kind of obsessive mind anyhow, but just whatever you set your mind to or your goals, just making sure that you put everything you can into it to achieve it.
[07:24.000 -> 07:26.680] that you put everything you can into it to achieve it. And that starts at an early age.
[07:26.680 -> 07:28.600] And obviously as you get older,
[07:28.600 -> 07:29.600] you know, that kind of,
[07:29.600 -> 07:31.400] the amount that you can do that changes.
[07:31.400 -> 07:33.200] And you, also you realize you don't have to do things
[07:33.200 -> 07:34.440] like 24 seven.
[07:35.640 -> 07:38.840] But yeah, I definitely think having a goal
[07:38.840 -> 07:41.240] and making sure you achieve it every single time
[07:41.240 -> 07:43.640] and then has setting more goals.
[07:43.640 -> 07:48.060] It's constant have addition of goals means your performance will always stay high.
[07:48.160 -> 07:49.660] And then you'll never lose rest on your laurels.
[07:49.660 -> 07:52.420] Cause I mean, you start doing that, any kind of performance in any
[07:52.420 -> 07:53.940] facility starts to waver.
[07:54.460 -> 07:54.940] This is good.
[07:54.940 -> 07:57.180] So it sounds like you're building a journey to me.
[07:57.180 -> 08:00.420] So we're going to start a journey and let's start, you know, so I mentioned
[08:00.420 -> 08:04.720] there early on about it starts at a young age, so let's go right back to,
[08:05.240 -> 08:10.160] you know, when you a first realized that you both had an affinity and a natural ability
[08:10.160 -> 08:15.440] at this, but then you were able to tap into the obsession to make it a success because
[08:15.440 -> 08:21.040] without hard work, we get, we don't get anywhere. So can we talk first of all about this relationship?
[08:21.040 -> 08:27.000] Because this is a unique thing. Very few of us? Yeah, very few people find this that you two have found.
[08:27.000 -> 08:28.000] What was special about it?
[08:28.000 -> 08:30.000] Well, I mean, look, you mentioned the word obsessed.
[08:30.000 -> 08:35.000] That's definitely why probably we sort of met in the first place
[08:35.000 -> 08:38.000] because mutual friends and through a mutual love.
[08:38.000 -> 08:39.000] Slash obsession.
[08:39.000 -> 08:44.000] Obsession of dance music, electronic music,
[08:44.000 -> 08:46.700] British music culture in like the 90s when we were
[08:46.700 -> 08:47.620] growing up.
[08:47.620 -> 08:52.160] And yeah, everyone likes music when you're growing up,
[08:52.160 -> 08:54.600] all my mates were kind of into music and stuff,
[08:54.600 -> 08:57.000] but when you meet someone else with a kind of,
[08:57.000 -> 08:59.960] almost verging on a sort of sickness,
[08:59.960 -> 09:02.560] rather than just an obsession,
[09:02.560 -> 09:05.320] you just kind of recognize it in that person quite quickly
[09:05.320 -> 09:08.360] and you connect with them, I guess,
[09:08.360 -> 09:09.440] on a slightly different level
[09:09.440 -> 09:11.740] than maybe just your average music fan.
[09:11.740 -> 09:16.080] And that's, I guess, what kept us in contact
[09:16.080 -> 09:17.880] through growing up in London
[09:17.880 -> 09:20.040] and then going off to university in Manchester
[09:20.040 -> 09:23.040] and just coincidentally being there at the same time
[09:23.040 -> 09:24.460] and bumping into each other
[09:24.460 -> 09:26.240] and sort of reconnecting
[09:26.240 -> 09:30.040] through that obsession of just music and culture
[09:30.040 -> 09:32.040] and the things we were into at the time.
[09:32.040 -> 09:34.640] You've both used quite strong terminology,
[09:34.640 -> 09:36.520] obsession or a sickness,
[09:36.520 -> 09:38.520] which almost has a negative connotation
[09:38.520 -> 09:41.160] to what some people might describe as passion.
[09:41.160 -> 09:42.120] Yeah.
[09:42.120 -> 09:44.240] Yeah, I guess it does sound negative, doesn't it?
[09:44.240 -> 09:48.160] Because, you know, the thing about obsession, um, which I personally am
[09:48.160 -> 09:52.680] guilty of with pretty much anything I'm into, like I am crazy into it.
[09:53.080 -> 09:55.600] I sometimes I'll be into something like insane for a period of time.
[09:55.640 -> 09:56.240] And then I'll stop.
[09:56.800 -> 09:59.480] Like I've collected vintage Moschino.
[09:59.480 -> 10:02.080] I think I've got the largest personal collection in the world and
[10:02.080 -> 10:03.480] I've like completed that game now.
[10:03.880 -> 10:08.000] So I've stopped collecting it every week and like sourcing it and like
[10:08.000 -> 10:09.120] rummaging around, you know?
[10:09.800 -> 10:12.680] Um, but like that's gone on since we were kids, you know?
[10:12.680 -> 10:17.680] So it's always these obsessions that have basically driven everything I do.
[10:17.720 -> 10:20.800] But let's talk about it positively then what has the obsession done for you?
[10:21.000 -> 10:23.920] It's meant that everything we try and do, we achieve it.
[10:24.640 -> 10:29.420] You know, we make sure it happens one way or another like if we didn't manage to
[10:29.420 -> 10:36.260] stumble across some success in music I have no idea where it'd be where I'd be
[10:36.260 -> 10:40.380] you know it's like it was it was nothing else I think what we're talking about
[10:40.380 -> 10:43.820] like the obsession connection between us we were like also when we both went to
[10:43.820 -> 10:45.040] Manchester separately,
[10:45.080 -> 10:48.120] year between each other, we clearly both gone there.
[10:48.120 -> 10:51.560] I was like, we're going here because we're going to uni and we're getting
[10:51.560 -> 10:53.360] away from our parents and blah, blah, blah.
[10:53.360 -> 10:54.160] And fun.
[10:54.160 -> 10:58.040] But I'm not going to, I'm not going to be, what am I doing?
[10:58.360 -> 10:58.960] Philosophy.
[10:59.520 -> 11:00.800] I'm not doing this stuff.
[11:00.960 -> 11:02.040] I want to be a jungle DJ.
[11:02.040 -> 11:02.440] You mad?
[11:02.640 -> 11:04.280] You know, like this is what I want to be.
[11:04.280 -> 11:07.000] And then, you know, reconnecting with someone up there
[11:07.000 -> 11:11.440] who's clearly got the same mindset, the same dream.
[11:11.440 -> 11:13.800] Because I think we both had friends who were also DJs,
[11:13.800 -> 11:15.400] bedroom DJs, really good at it as well,
[11:15.400 -> 11:16.600] like better than us at some stage,
[11:16.600 -> 11:18.440] and like might have shown us a few things.
[11:18.440 -> 11:20.120] We're like, wow, they are.
[11:20.120 -> 11:23.720] But it was us who went on to be completely besotted with it.
[11:23.720 -> 11:25.480] I think it was also we fell in love with it.
[11:25.480 -> 11:27.080] You know, we fall in love with these things, we're obsessed.
[11:27.080 -> 11:31.680] I think the sickness thing is just because it sort of takes over everything you do, really,
[11:31.680 -> 11:34.560] and I guess gets hold of you a bit, like, you know, when you're very sick,
[11:34.560 -> 11:36.920] you're kind of consumed with an illness.
[11:36.920 -> 11:39.200] So it's not really, it's not meant to sound negative,
[11:39.200 -> 11:42.400] but it's definitely all-consuming, and at the time,
[11:42.400 -> 11:45.160] it's all we did and talked about.
[11:45.160 -> 11:48.840] Our entire lives were built around our obsession with music.
[11:48.840 -> 11:51.280] And how do you nurture that then,
[11:51.280 -> 11:55.460] so it becomes a positive thing rather than something that,
[11:56.800 -> 11:59.040] because you can think of it like an addiction,
[11:59.040 -> 12:00.600] but it's something we love.
[12:00.600 -> 12:02.640] Well, what you realize is at some point
[12:02.640 -> 12:04.000] you need to earn a living,
[12:04.000 -> 12:13.120] and so you either quit your obsession and get into the real world of making money or you try and turn your obsession into making money.
[12:24.820 -> 12:25.200] And you know you sort of endlessly chatting about to how the hell are we going to turn this into a viable career?
[12:30.980 -> 12:32.640] that will pay for us to live and exist and even in the future pay for our kids to go to school and all this kind of stuff and
[12:32.640 -> 12:36.140] That's when it goes from I guess an obsession into a profession
[12:37.000 -> 12:42.140] Which is memories then of that period because it goes from being fun to actually being much more serious
[12:42.280 -> 12:45.760] Probably and then that increases the pressure that increases the obsession and
[12:45.760 -> 12:47.280] yeah, it's a snowball, isn't it?
[12:47.320 -> 12:47.680] Yeah.
[12:47.760 -> 12:48.000] Yeah.
[12:48.000 -> 12:48.240] Yeah.
[12:48.240 -> 12:55.680] It's also, it's also, um, quite surreal in a sense that it's in one regard.
[12:55.680 -> 12:58.600] It hasn't changed because I was saying this to my wife the other day, which
[12:58.600 -> 13:08.200] was like, when I was 22, 23 back then, whatever old it was, things I enjoyed doing were making music, DJing,
[13:08.200 -> 13:11.360] maybe DJing my tunes out in a nightclub.
[13:11.360 -> 13:15.560] So you fast forward 19 years, what do I enjoy doing?
[13:15.560 -> 13:18.280] Making music, DJing, playing my tunes in a nightclub.
[13:18.280 -> 13:19.800] What do I do every weekend?
[13:19.800 -> 13:20.800] Exactly that.
[13:20.800 -> 13:24.600] So it's like, in some regards, I'm still in the exact same place we were when we were
[13:24.600 -> 13:29.040] like desperately trying to like break it, break out and come through.
[13:29.040 -> 13:32.320] Because we're still in that cycle of doing the same things we love so much.
[13:32.320 -> 13:36.280] Whereas friends of mine will be like, Oh mate, I've not seen Dex for a long time.
[13:36.280 -> 13:38.360] It's been a long time since I DJed.
[13:38.360 -> 13:42.280] You know, I remember the days and I'm like, remember the days I'm going DJing tonight.
[13:42.280 -> 13:45.160] You know, it's like, it's still stuck there in that regard.
[13:45.160 -> 13:47.520] So, there's so many people listening to this
[13:47.520 -> 13:49.000] that I reckon would be going,
[13:49.000 -> 13:50.960] that they've heard that saying that, you know,
[13:50.960 -> 13:53.280] find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life.
[13:53.280 -> 13:56.120] You're thinking, but I don't know what I'll do.
[13:56.120 -> 14:00.040] So how did you guys discover that this is a passion
[14:00.040 -> 14:01.760] that you could monetize?
[14:01.760 -> 14:04.640] Well, it did become a job and you know,
[14:04.640 -> 14:05.160] it isn't always and you know,
[14:05.160 -> 14:07.320] it isn't always, you know,
[14:07.320 -> 14:09.800] you don't always love everything you're doing,
[14:09.800 -> 14:13.000] and that point of dropping out of uni
[14:13.000 -> 14:15.680] and realizing, you know, I haven't got a pot to piss in,
[14:15.680 -> 14:17.640] we're gonna be working in a shoe shop
[14:17.640 -> 14:19.800] unless we turn this into a viable
[14:19.800 -> 14:21.320] sort of money-making option,
[14:21.320 -> 14:26.860] that does add stress, and, and you know suddenly you are putting
[14:26.860 -> 14:32.340] yourselves in difficult positions and situations and putting yourself well you
[14:32.340 -> 14:37.060] you you you start to you start to sort of everybody money well yeah and you
[14:37.060 -> 14:41.240] have to start plotting you become very strategic what we became very strategic
[14:41.240 -> 14:46.500] right so it's like okay so work backwards so are the people that do make money from this?
[14:46.500 -> 14:48.860] So you're our heroes, for example.
[14:48.860 -> 14:50.420] And it's like, right, how do you,
[14:50.420 -> 14:51.860] why are they making money?
[14:51.860 -> 14:53.940] And it's like, okay, well, they've created a brand,
[14:53.940 -> 14:55.800] they've created amazing music,
[14:55.800 -> 14:58.140] they've managed to sell themselves,
[14:58.140 -> 15:01.480] they've obviously met other important people.
[15:01.480 -> 15:03.720] Okay, how did they meet those people?
[15:03.720 -> 15:06.720] Well, they went to these kind of places,
[15:06.720 -> 15:08.840] and you just keep going backwards
[15:08.840 -> 15:11.880] until it gets quite detailed.
[15:11.880 -> 15:14.720] So it was like, right, okay, so we're at a very small level,
[15:14.720 -> 15:15.960] no one knows who the hell we are,
[15:15.960 -> 15:17.960] okay, who's the next person up from us
[15:17.960 -> 15:21.280] that has any power or any network or any influence?
[15:21.280 -> 15:23.400] The guys that work in record shops
[15:23.400 -> 15:25.080] in Manchester and City Centre, okay,
[15:25.080 -> 15:27.540] because they have access to the other producers
[15:27.540 -> 15:29.760] that give them the records, and they know,
[15:29.760 -> 15:31.800] there's no way of getting to the big people yet,
[15:31.800 -> 15:34.760] but they know, they're like a little bridging gap,
[15:34.760 -> 15:36.600] and I can physically speak to them
[15:36.600 -> 15:38.060] because I can go and buy records.
[15:38.060 -> 15:42.280] So we'd spend months trying to befriend these people
[15:42.280 -> 15:44.240] more than your average punter,
[15:44.240 -> 15:49.260] so that we'd have a bit of a like, oh hey Dave, you alright mate? Can you any chance one day you can
[15:49.260 -> 15:54.580] link me up? You know, and that kind of like mad sort of strategic plotting
[15:54.580 -> 15:58.480] started to go on and that's just one example but we used to spend a lot of
[15:58.480 -> 16:08.000] time, as well as trying to learn our art form, but working out how to basically move up this like long ladder
[16:08.320 -> 16:14.460] and and that isn't always fun and that's you know, you get rejected a hell of a lot and you know
[16:14.460 -> 16:19.200] It's difficult and more time than not you're getting slapped in the face and it's kind of
[16:19.800 -> 16:27.340] And yeah, you're spending a lot of time without any money, any income, you know, sort of basically on the dole.
[16:27.340 -> 16:30.140] Your moms are like, what the hell are you doing up there?
[16:30.140 -> 16:31.480] You know, this is, you know,
[16:31.480 -> 16:32.540] when are you going to come back to London
[16:32.540 -> 16:33.380] and get a real job?
[16:33.380 -> 16:34.720] And you know, our friends are starting
[16:34.720 -> 16:35.560] to make money and stuff.
[16:35.560 -> 16:37.860] And so, those times are stressful.
[16:37.860 -> 16:40.420] But I also think those times,
[16:40.420 -> 16:41.980] you know, we were connected before
[16:41.980 -> 16:44.420] on a sort of, you know, joint passion,
[16:44.420 -> 16:45.400] you know, similar interests. And now a, on a sort of, you know, joint passion, you know, similar interests.
[16:45.400 -> 16:49.960] And now you connect on a level of like, we need, I need you and you need me.
[16:49.960 -> 16:52.520] And suddenly my mom was like, and how's Saul doing?
[16:52.520 -> 16:53.360] Is Saul all right?
[16:53.360 -> 16:54.400] Is he still doing well?
[16:54.400 -> 16:55.880] And you know, his mom, his will okay.
[16:55.880 -> 16:56.440] You know what I mean?
[16:56.440 -> 17:01.640] Because it's like, you, you are reliant on each other now to basically have an income and have a living.
[17:01.840 -> 17:10.920] I think something that's important that kind of, kind of predates lots of that is it's quick one's quick to forget that actually
[17:10.920 -> 17:16.320] two bass things that drove this so we got to know a lot of the guys in the
[17:16.320 -> 17:21.880] record shops before it became like you know that'll be a smart play was just
[17:21.880 -> 17:29.000] because we were obsessed with the music and therefore going into record shops five days a week and getting as many promos
[17:29.000 -> 17:30.140] you can and knowing everyone.
[17:30.140 -> 17:32.720] So when the promo comes in, yeah, so what's good.
[17:32.720 -> 17:33.860] You're like, that's my my problem.
[17:33.860 -> 17:34.400] Thank you.
[17:34.520 -> 17:34.740] Yep.
[17:35.240 -> 17:36.100] I don't need it, but I'll have it.
[17:36.100 -> 17:38.100] Cause it's a white label, you know, like that was, it was the
[17:38.100 -> 17:40.140] passion, the crazy love about it.
[17:40.640 -> 17:45.720] And something that really spurred us to like, right, let's just do this as before.
[17:45.720 -> 17:50.080] I think we thought it's a monetary, you know, option is we were good DJs.
[17:50.080 -> 17:51.120] We thought we're good DJs.
[17:51.360 -> 17:55.640] We want to, if we give you, give us the opportunity to play in this nightclub
[17:56.760 -> 17:58.400] main slot, we'll smash it.
[17:58.620 -> 18:00.520] We know it, but no one's going to give us opportunity.
[18:00.920 -> 18:01.760] How can we do that?
[18:02.160 -> 18:03.880] How can we get noticed?
[18:04.080 -> 18:04.920] How can we get known?
[18:05.800 -> 18:09.360] And then everything else became a part of it. And that fundamentally led to us saying we need to
[18:09.360 -> 18:11.000] make music.
[18:11.000 -> 18:14.840] You go from befriending the people that work in the record store, and we're sitting here
[18:14.840 -> 18:20.360] now and the awards and the record sales and the gigs you've played, you know, we're talking
[18:20.360 -> 18:28.840] about the biggest venues around the world. That's a leap. So I'd love to know the story of how you go from saying, uh, do you know an A&R guy in
[18:28.840 -> 18:31.440] Manchester to us sitting, having this conversation now.
[18:31.440 -> 18:32.440] So what happened next?
[18:32.440 -> 18:34.360] Yeah, well, it's a long story, obviously.
[18:34.360 -> 18:36.160] And we can do it in about 20 minutes.
[18:36.160 -> 18:42.320] Well, you sort of, I mean, it's just, it's a series of doors basically that, that you
[18:42.320 -> 18:43.960] don't open, you kind of kick open.
[18:43.960 -> 18:46.680] And by the way, I ask this question because
[18:46.680 -> 18:49.320] our podcast audience is full of people with a dream
[18:49.320 -> 18:51.600] and an ambition and an obsession,
[18:51.600 -> 18:54.080] but they believe like many young people do,
[18:54.080 -> 18:57.440] I'm born in this, this is my box, this is my path in life.
[18:57.440 -> 19:00.240] There's no way through and you guys are living proof
[19:00.240 -> 19:01.080] that that's not the case.
[19:01.080 -> 19:04.480] Yeah, I mean, it was never not an option for us
[19:04.480 -> 19:06.880] to do what we do and I think
[19:06.880 -> 19:12.480] people say oh you know are you a question we always get asked is you know how did you always
[19:12.480 -> 19:17.520] are you always like sort of surprised at your success and you know have you have you also looked
[19:17.520 -> 19:21.880] at these crowds and these accolades and thought well you know how did we get here and we sound
[19:21.880 -> 19:26.360] really arrogant but we always knew we'd make it. We always knew there was never a single doubt
[19:26.880 -> 19:29.600] that we wouldn't get to
[19:30.240 -> 19:34.840] Where we wanted to be and it wasn't that we weren't arrogant. We were full of self. We you know, we
[19:35.360 -> 19:40.640] Am full of I think you know, it wasn't like yeah, we don't think that you can believe that and still be full of self
[19:40.640 -> 19:44.520] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It wasn't this sort of delusional like we're just better than everyone
[19:44.520 -> 19:48.600] It was just like we will because we we're, there's no other option
[19:48.600 -> 19:52.620] for us. This is what we want to do. We love it so much. It's a long shot. Making money
[19:52.620 -> 19:58.040] from music is quite, you know, probably high risk, but it was like, it's just, we'll just
[19:58.040 -> 20:02.520] do anything it takes to make, there will just never be a time when we're not figuring it
[20:02.520 -> 20:07.120] out. And whether that means we've got to make friends with a million record shop owners,
[20:07.120 -> 20:11.020] or do even more ludicrous stuff, we'll just do that.
[20:11.020 -> 20:12.620] And it's fine, we'll just keep doing that,
[20:12.620 -> 20:14.940] and eventually a door will open.
[20:14.940 -> 20:16.900] And it's definitely easier with two people.
[20:16.900 -> 20:20.780] I think, you know, it's a lot of tough times in that journey,
[20:20.780 -> 20:23.500] and a hell of a lot of rejection and doubt,
[20:23.500 -> 20:28.700] and like, oh my God, this is a nightmare. What we doing what we doing what we doing but in those super low
[20:28.700 -> 20:34.860] times you look at your partner and you end up laughing because like someone else got you in the misery
[20:34.860 -> 20:36.860] at least you're in it with me.
[20:36.860 -> 20:41.860] Can you give us an example of like a really low time then of where you did call on each other?
[20:41.860 -> 20:46.880] Oh man I think there's been a lot of times when,
[20:46.880 -> 20:48.840] so probably actually the hardest times
[20:48.840 -> 20:50.940] are when you start to get success
[20:50.940 -> 20:54.400] and then you get a lot more expectation
[20:54.400 -> 20:56.100] and pressure in a way,
[20:56.100 -> 20:59.120] because when you're just trying to start out,
[20:59.120 -> 21:00.300] everything's a win.
[21:00.300 -> 21:04.980] Because you're just, your base level is just loss.
[21:04.980 -> 21:14.120] You're not winning anything, you're just just nothing so anything good happens is a win and anything rubbish happens is just normal and then you start doing really well and it's like.
[21:14.460 -> 21:30.320] There's a chance to continue that and the losses because feel quite painful and you know rejection of maybe it's a song doesn't do well or a record label isn't happy with something or whatever it might be a bad gig or something you start that
[21:30.320 -> 21:32.720] sort of doubt creeps and you go oh my god we're gonna go back to square one
[21:32.720 -> 21:37.000] again can we keep this going now and more money gets involved and more people
[21:37.000 -> 21:41.360] more people are interested in it and I think some of those times particularly
[21:41.360 -> 21:45.200] the difficult second album after our first album I felt we'd
[21:45.200 -> 21:49.040] built this thing up where we're very proud of and the second album
[21:49.040 -> 21:52.920] was like suddenly major labels and big money, Universal Music were involved and
[21:52.920 -> 21:57.200] they were like right this is it, it's all on you now to become this big act
[21:57.200 -> 22:03.560] and we both just had a full on meltdown. Second album syndrome is legitimately
[22:03.560 -> 22:06.000] something that most artists actually experience.
[22:06.000 -> 22:07.000] And we fell apart.
[22:07.000 -> 22:08.000] Why is that?
[22:08.000 -> 22:14.000] I wouldn't come back to it, but because the debut album, you have nothing to lose.
[22:14.000 -> 22:18.000] You can't believe you're making an album in the first place, because what are we doing
[22:18.000 -> 22:19.000] making an album?
[22:19.000 -> 22:22.000] Anyway, you make that first album, oh, the album's done really well.
[22:22.000 -> 22:26.840] And on the back of that album, which has went gold or independent, we've signed with a major.
[22:26.840 -> 22:27.920] That's random.
[22:27.920 -> 22:29.600] Anyway, da-da-da-da-da,
[22:29.600 -> 22:31.320] and then you go to make the next second album,
[22:31.320 -> 22:34.940] and part of you wants us to make the first one again,
[22:34.940 -> 22:36.720] but you can't, because you've done that.
[22:36.720 -> 22:37.560] And you know yourself,
[22:37.560 -> 22:40.240] we're not one for just recreating what we've done
[22:40.240 -> 22:42.080] over and over, we want to do something new.
[22:42.080 -> 22:45.840] And we knew that it had to be bigger, better.
[22:45.840 -> 22:48.640] We had different ideas and all of those things,
[22:48.640 -> 22:50.120] and then trying to have that success
[22:50.120 -> 22:52.520] and keep the original fans without alienating them.
[22:52.520 -> 22:55.280] Because the second album had a lot of more different genres
[22:55.280 -> 22:56.760] on there than just drum and bass.
[22:56.760 -> 22:58.800] First album had drum and bass,
[22:58.800 -> 23:00.240] two dubstep songs and a hip hop track.
[23:00.240 -> 23:03.360] It was all very, and lots of instrumental music.
[23:03.360 -> 23:08.020] And the second album was geared around our live show and it was different direction, you know,
[23:08.020 -> 23:10.420] taking it up a notch. And yeah.
[23:10.420 -> 23:14.300] Dangerous position there of like losing all you've built, all your
[23:14.300 -> 23:17.460] original fans like, hang on, this isn't what we signed up to. You've sold out.
[23:17.460 -> 23:23.020] That classic thing of like, you've sold out. And once you, if you, if that happens, I mean, a lot of
[23:23.020 -> 23:28.220] our peers were doing that at the time. We've saw a lot of people sort of jump for the stars, miss.
[23:28.620 -> 23:30.360] You can't go back to where you came from.
[23:30.420 -> 23:35.060] You're in no man's land at that point as an artist, you're like, well, you're not cool anymore.
[23:35.500 -> 23:37.620] You're not successful on a commercial level.
[23:37.620 -> 23:39.380] So you are really screwed really.
[23:39.380 -> 23:40.180] And then you've lost.
[23:40.420 -> 23:41.540] You really kind of lost it.
[23:41.980 -> 23:47.700] And that's why you see a lot of artists have that flash moment and then just you never hear them again and that was that moment
[23:47.700 -> 23:50.700] it was a really dangerous territory for us it was like this is make or break
[23:50.700 -> 23:55.260] hundred percent if this album doesn't really go we won't be able to go back to
[23:55.260 -> 24:00.520] that last five years that we built up. The cool rock ground ground base. Yeah this fan base we'd
[24:00.520 -> 24:06.640] loyally built up this doesn't, we'll be isolated as an actor, we felt anyway.
[24:06.640 -> 24:11.040] And the pressure of that, trying to meet deadlines, managers going you need this and
[24:11.040 -> 24:14.000] the record label being like it needs to be more commercial, we need more singers,
[24:14.000 -> 24:21.040] we're not really into that, all of that, you know, was a lot. And, you know, definitely at the time,
[24:21.040 -> 24:27.560] if it hadn't been, if it'd just been me on my I'm trying to do that yeah it would have been too much contract negotiations
[24:27.560 -> 24:30.920] where things have been you know beginning of the career a little bit you
[24:30.920 -> 24:36.160] know skew if should we say and it's a good to have your partner there it was a
[24:36.160 -> 24:40.840] good good cop bad cop also worked kind of well but what's intriguing is that
[24:40.840 -> 24:46.840] you described two types of pressure here so when you start out and you say that you've burnt your boats,
[24:46.840 -> 24:51.400] you've just decided that you're going to make money for music,
[24:51.400 -> 24:53.920] and yet you seem comfortable with that pressure.
[24:53.920 -> 24:54.520] Yeah.
[24:54.520 -> 24:57.120] And yet when you've then started to make money,
[24:57.120 -> 24:59.320] do you think it's something about at first you've
[24:59.320 -> 25:02.040] said you're playing to win on that first album,
[25:02.040 -> 25:04.520] on the second one you're playing not to lose?
[25:04.520 -> 25:05.560] Yeah. Yeah, kind of. I mean, second one, you play in not to lose. Yeah, yeah, kind of.
[25:05.560 -> 25:08.760] I mean, the first one, you've got nothing to lose, then you've got something to lose.
[25:08.800 -> 25:12.120] You know, you, you, I guess it's kind of that really.
[25:12.120 -> 25:12.280] Yeah.
[25:12.320 -> 25:17.240] But you know, it's a bit, that's a bit, bit defeatist because we don't want to lose,
[25:17.760 -> 25:20.240] but believe me, you know, we wanted to win.
[25:20.760 -> 25:22.520] We didn't want to just, it's all right.
[25:23.040 -> 25:25.640] We're trying, you write a big boy album,
[25:25.640 -> 25:30.120] like make sure this is sick. And that's all that counts basically, the way that this is
[25:30.120 -> 25:34.280] sick and hopefully with that, you know, get some success. And that obviously went on to
[25:34.280 -> 25:39.200] be our biggest album to date and our most successful one, which I don't think we were
[25:39.200 -> 25:46.880] just born out of the fear of not losing, you know, we knew like we wanted, but it was the birth of the live show as well for us,
[25:46.880 -> 25:48.280] you know, it all went hand in hand
[25:48.280 -> 25:51.840] and it was a real like a departure,
[25:51.840 -> 25:55.540] I guess from the nightclubs and to show we are also,
[25:55.540 -> 25:57.840] you know, a festival ready act
[25:57.840 -> 25:59.360] to make those kinds of moments.
[25:59.360 -> 26:01.120] Well, what I'm picking up a lot of here though,
[26:01.120 -> 26:03.720] is like you two are both very happy to take a leap,
[26:03.720 -> 26:08.880] like walking away from university is a leap, staying up in Manchester where
[26:08.880 -> 26:11.620] you were rather than coming home and getting a job. Most people go well I'll go home
[26:11.620 -> 26:15.620] and I can live for free I'll get a job and then once I've got a job for six
[26:15.620 -> 26:18.780] months and I've got some money in the bank then let's have a chat. Whereas you do it
[26:18.780 -> 26:21.940] the totally opposite way you're kind of I imagine you're living hand-to-mouth
[26:21.940 -> 26:28.120] you're hoping for the best then you you go to a major label, another leap of faith.
[26:28.120 -> 26:31.400] Then you decide, right, we've done that, what's next?
[26:31.400 -> 26:33.600] Let's go and be an amazing live act.
[26:33.600 -> 26:36.400] Where do you both think, whether it was your upbringing
[26:36.400 -> 26:39.600] or pushing each other on, where did this spirit
[26:39.600 -> 26:43.120] of risk-taking and taking leaps of faith come from?
[26:43.120 -> 26:46.600] Yeah, I think weirdly, weirdly I mean that's kind
[26:46.600 -> 26:49.360] of like a part we're both madly ambitious
[26:49.360 -> 26:51.780] right and madly competitive as well
[26:51.780 -> 26:54.440] actually luckily not too much with each
[26:54.440 -> 26:57.120] other which I think we couldn't exist if
[26:57.120 -> 26:58.480] we were just constantly competing with
[26:58.480 -> 27:00.400] each other because it would just be stupid but
[27:00.400 -> 27:02.560] you know when coming through we're
[27:02.560 -> 27:04.720] competitive with our peers we're very
[27:04.720 -> 27:05.780] business you know it wasn't all like we're competitive with our peers. We're very business, you know
[27:05.780 -> 27:09.780] It wasn't all like let's go to the after party with the other artists in our scene
[27:09.780 -> 27:15.380] It was like we're just about our business and we're basically trying to get above you in your business
[27:15.700 -> 27:17.700] We were really competitive
[27:18.020 -> 27:20.520] But that's your industry. Well, you see you alive
[27:22.660 -> 27:25.960] It is quite but also, you know, dance music,
[27:25.960 -> 27:28.640] there is a reputation, you know,
[27:28.640 -> 27:30.160] there's a lot of like partying
[27:30.160 -> 27:32.300] and there's a lot of looseness in our industry.
[27:32.300 -> 27:34.360] Electronic music, DJs, after parties,
[27:34.360 -> 27:36.520] superstars floating around, you know,
[27:36.520 -> 27:38.120] drugs, all that kind of lifestyle.
[27:38.120 -> 27:39.600] When we were trying to make it,
[27:39.600 -> 27:41.360] we were not about that at all.
[27:41.360 -> 27:43.220] We were boring.
[27:43.220 -> 27:48.920] We were so business with what we did. Part of that is the sort of competitive nature in us and I don't really know
[27:48.920 -> 27:52.440] where that comes from. I can't place it in myself.
[27:52.440 -> 27:56.160] It's inbuilt. But they're very ambitious and it was like it wasn't
[27:56.160 -> 28:00.520] like let's just try and do well, it was let's be the absolute best.
[28:00.520 -> 28:06.000] That's the only thing that's good enough. And it sounds quite kind of arrogant that,
[28:06.000 -> 28:08.200] but I guess it was like, well,
[28:08.200 -> 28:09.760] it's all or nothing sort of thing.
[28:09.760 -> 28:11.960] And you can always be better, can't you?
[28:11.960 -> 28:14.200] It all comes from that competitiveness.
[28:14.200 -> 28:16.640] You know, we entered the culture clash a few years ago
[28:16.640 -> 28:20.040] with our team, Rebelside, and we won it quite handedly.
[28:20.040 -> 28:21.320] That takes us back to the beginning
[28:21.320 -> 28:22.760] when we first linked up,
[28:22.760 -> 28:25.800] our competitiveness was drawing tunes on each other.
[28:26.120 -> 28:27.560] Okay, sick.
[28:28.080 -> 28:30.440] I need to get that, you know, that kind of, where do you get that from?
[28:33.120 -> 28:34.920] And that became an, I want to play a better tune than you.
[28:34.920 -> 28:37.760] And even when we started DJing out as Chase and Status,
[28:38.000 -> 28:39.400] it's like drawing a little mix on each other.
[28:39.880 -> 28:41.120] Ah, you've done that one.
[28:41.120 -> 28:41.400] Yeah.
[28:41.440 -> 28:42.080] Okay.
[28:43.040 -> 28:48.880] I do a good one now, you know, sort of him, you know, like, and then, and then that became a bit less Aggie, but it
[28:48.880 -> 28:51.640] definitely was a big part of the start of it. I think that the whole culture
[28:51.640 -> 28:56.080] we're from like jungle drum bass, the whole culture is that it's clash. It's
[28:56.080 -> 29:00.060] like drawing tunes on people, making a tune, playing a tune that people got
[29:00.060 -> 29:03.080] nuts to tell someone else. And so, you know what I'm saying? I think a big
[29:03.080 -> 29:04.400] part of it, I think a hundred percent.
[29:04.880 -> 29:09.360] But I love, like, I love the clinical nature of this, that you're not getting, like, you're
[29:09.360 -> 29:14.920] playing to thousands of people, you're creating adrenaline and these amazing vibes and then
[29:14.920 -> 29:19.600] you can switch off from that and go into business mode from when you walk back afterwards.
[29:19.600 -> 29:26.800] So how did you sort of avoid getting seduced by the trappings of the success
[29:26.800 -> 29:31.800] and the comfort blanket of people patting you on the back?
[29:31.800 -> 29:36.000] Oh, well, I don't think on that front, we're just not those guys.
[29:36.000 -> 29:39.400] We're not ones for praise or insults, really.
[29:39.400 -> 29:42.200] You know, we don't read comments, we don't read good things,
[29:42.200 -> 29:43.200] we don't read bad things about us.
[29:43.200 -> 29:45.220] It's just none of it is healthy, you know what I mean? In the slightest, I don't read good things. We don't read bad things about us. It's just none of it is healthy.
[29:45.780 -> 29:45.860] You know what I mean?
[29:47.200 -> 29:48.420] In the, in the slightest, I don't think that's what people say that.
[29:49.100 -> 29:49.360] Yeah.
[29:49.360 -> 29:51.020] Like those people say, oh, don't read the
[29:51.020 -> 29:51.460] play line.
[29:51.780 -> 29:52.100] Yeah.
[29:52.100 -> 29:52.300] Yeah.
[29:52.300 -> 29:52.460] Yeah.
[29:52.460 -> 29:53.320] I'm sure.
[29:53.320 -> 29:53.580] Yeah.
[29:53.580 -> 29:54.100] I'm glad.
[29:54.100 -> 29:56.260] So I don't mean I'm not, I'm not here to be like, Oh, wow.
[29:56.260 -> 29:57.660] People, it doesn't matter.
[29:57.700 -> 29:59.540] A hundred people could say you're amazing.
[29:59.820 -> 30:01.380] And someone would say you're terrible.
[30:01.380 -> 30:04.000] And I'll be like that terrible ones really made me feel away.
[30:04.620 -> 30:05.040] That's that's annoying. Yeah. But a thousand people said you're terrible. And I'd be like, that terrible one's really made me feel a way.
[30:05.040 -> 30:05.960] That's annoying.
[30:05.960 -> 30:07.360] Yeah, but 1,000 people said you're great.
[30:07.360 -> 30:08.080] Forget about them.
[30:08.080 -> 30:11.000] Who's this one seven-year-old from, you know?
[30:11.000 -> 30:13.560] I think as well, there's always more to be done.
[30:13.560 -> 30:16.200] We always had this feeling, and still do,
[30:16.200 -> 30:18.080] that there's always something more to be done.
[30:18.080 -> 30:21.320] So it was always like, you know, straight out the gig,
[30:21.320 -> 30:23.560] back into the car, and get to the studio, get to the next gig.
[30:23.560 -> 30:27.080] Not, oh, let's have a drink and celebrate that big moment and a nice
[30:27.080 -> 30:30.800] example of that I think when we released our first album or first single or first
[30:30.800 -> 30:34.720] song on vinyl just like an underground dance release might have even been an
[30:34.720 -> 30:39.040] alias and it was just completely like probably like a hundred copies pressed
[30:39.040 -> 30:43.080] on vinyl but it's our first moment on vinyl and a friend of mine sent us a
[30:43.080 -> 30:48.640] bottle of champagne said wow you guys you know you're like 22 or whatever you've got a song on a record
[30:48.640 -> 30:53.920] like well done and we thought should we pop the champagne tonight?
[30:53.920 -> 30:56.680] I thought no actually because we just want to finish this thing for like we had this
[30:56.680 -> 30:59.880] other little thing bubbling away let's do that let's get on that record label
[30:59.880 -> 31:04.000] another little label and then let's drink it and we did that a month or two
[31:04.000 -> 31:09.320] later and then let's just kept going we still got that bottle of champagne and it's sort of a
[31:09.320 -> 31:14.000] nice sentiment of like there's never a moment of like we've done it never ever
[31:14.000 -> 31:17.880] feel like that we never ever there's always like oh we still need to do this
[31:17.880 -> 31:22.120] we still need to head down there we still need to do that and that's kept us
[31:22.120 -> 31:27.400] focused from getting caught up in the kind of, we're here, let's drink the champagne,
[31:27.400 -> 31:29.560] let's lose sight of what we're trying to do.
[31:29.560 -> 31:32.360] It's a brilliant lesson, because actually along the way,
[31:32.360 -> 31:34.880] the nice reminder for the both of you has been,
[31:34.880 -> 31:38.120] and we all know of them, those acts who appear,
[31:38.120 -> 31:40.520] we talk on this podcast, never get high on your own supply.
[31:40.520 -> 31:42.200] Yeah, it's that kind of thing.
[31:42.200 -> 31:43.200] Get high on their own supply,
[31:43.200 -> 31:44.760] they are the last one at the bar,
[31:44.760 -> 31:47.680] they are drinking the champagne, they don't make the recording session the
[31:47.680 -> 31:51.440] next day. They do start to piss off the record label on whatever. Six months
[31:51.440 -> 31:53.440] later, they're gone and you're still there. And people are going, why do those,
[31:53.600 -> 31:56.560] why are those two still hanging around? Yeah. And that's why I love this
[31:56.560 -> 32:00.320] conversation because people that listen to your music, love the music. They don't
[32:00.320 -> 32:07.000] understand this work ethic, this drive, this determination, this constant focus on the process, not on the outcome.
[32:07.000 -> 32:08.020] So is there an outcome?
[32:08.020 -> 32:10.240] Is there a day where you would drink that champagne,
[32:10.240 -> 32:11.080] do you think?
[32:11.080 -> 32:14.680] Or are you totally happy never opening that bottle?
[32:14.680 -> 32:16.440] That's a victory in itself in some ways.
[32:16.440 -> 32:18.080] The latter, I'd be totally happy not opening it.
[32:18.080 -> 32:21.120] Yeah, I guess it's almost now it's become more of the minute
[32:21.120 -> 32:23.000] you're sort of a sad day of like,
[32:23.000 -> 32:24.960] well, it's sort of stopping, you're stopping, right?
[32:24.960 -> 32:27.520] There's nothing more to achieve you know I think
[32:27.520 -> 32:33.000] now obviously we are we're less you know obsessed about we have less boxes maybe
[32:33.000 -> 32:38.520] to take than we used to obviously and we do celebrate you know our successes now
[32:38.520 -> 32:44.840] and again you know we're not as fiercely mental as we used to be but no I don't
[32:44.840 -> 32:45.120] know I think I think as long as you still used to be. But no, I don't know.
[32:45.120 -> 32:48.440] I think as long as you still wanna be working
[32:48.440 -> 32:50.920] and performing at a high level,
[32:50.920 -> 32:54.400] then I think the ball stays shut really for us.
[32:54.400 -> 32:56.320] So what are the kind of,
[32:56.320 -> 32:58.800] like we use this phrase world-class basics.
[32:58.800 -> 32:59.960] It's almost like the habits
[32:59.960 -> 33:03.200] that you relentlessly focus on.
[33:03.200 -> 33:04.920] What are the kind of world-class basics
[33:04.920 -> 33:09.080] that if we came to watch you now, when you're working,
[33:09.080 -> 33:12.160] we'd have recognized it from back in the early 2000s?
[33:12.160 -> 33:13.000] It's a good question,
[33:13.000 -> 33:15.680] because I guess there are like three main elements for us.
[33:15.680 -> 33:16.920] There's a four.
[33:16.920 -> 33:20.900] There's DJing, the live show, making tunes themselves,
[33:20.900 -> 33:22.800] and then working with artists in the studio
[33:22.800 -> 33:24.040] for their music.
[33:24.040 -> 33:28.000] They all take completely different skills really.
[33:28.000 -> 33:30.400] Obviously we're very comfortable just making music,
[33:30.400 -> 33:32.760] and we have maybe been together for a lifetime.
[33:32.760 -> 33:36.400] And it's funny, it's hard to pinpoint because you sing DJ,
[33:36.400 -> 33:37.640] okay, performing with all these people,
[33:37.640 -> 33:42.040] it's just, it's really just an extension of what we would have done in February.
[33:42.040 -> 33:45.480] Do you mean kind of traits that are sort of traits that kind of...
[33:45.480 -> 33:47.920] Behaviors, things that you do, things that you bring to the table.
[33:47.920 -> 34:01.200] I think, I think something that may be a key to our success that's consistent through all of that and is still is, is kind of putting yourself in challenging situations and then turning up to them.
[34:01.800 -> 34:04.260] and turning up to them. And you see it time and time again,
[34:04.260 -> 34:05.580] particularly in our industry,
[34:05.580 -> 34:08.700] people can be flaky and not turn up,
[34:08.700 -> 34:11.600] things get long, let's not do that actually,
[34:11.600 -> 34:16.600] or allow that, and we've never ever missed a flight,
[34:17.340 -> 34:19.220] not gone to a studio session,
[34:19.220 -> 34:21.900] not met up with someone who we're nervous of,
[34:21.900 -> 34:27.280] or a big name, or not put ourselves in an awkward work situation,
[34:28.320 -> 34:31.420] in a weird interview situation,
[34:31.420 -> 34:32.620] which sounds kind of basically,
[34:32.620 -> 34:35.120] be amazed at how many people sometimes cop out
[34:35.120 -> 34:37.400] when the going gets really tough,
[34:37.400 -> 34:39.760] and just turning up, always just turning up,
[34:39.760 -> 34:44.040] even when it's the last thing you want to do.
[34:44.040 -> 34:46.080] Being reliable, man. Because we don't have to, right?
[34:46.080 -> 34:48.180] We're self-employed, but we can choose
[34:48.180 -> 34:50.680] our own destiny a little bit.
[34:50.680 -> 34:52.580] And it's very easy, that's the danger of that,
[34:52.580 -> 34:54.500] is like, you know what, let's just make an excuse
[34:54.500 -> 34:56.020] and allow this today.
[34:56.020 -> 34:59.480] And then, again, we just look at each other and go,
[34:59.480 -> 35:00.860] do we really though, shall we?
[35:00.860 -> 35:02.180] No, it's wrong.
[35:02.180 -> 35:05.060] And some of the best stuff has happened from those times
[35:05.060 -> 35:07.580] and you've gone in a room with people that you're like, oh god I'm dreading this.
[35:07.580 -> 35:10.500] And then obviously you come out and imagine this happened.
[35:10.500 -> 35:12.500] So give us an example of that then Will.
[35:12.500 -> 35:18.180] Well I think high pressure really really actually works for Will and I on every level, be it.
[35:18.180 -> 35:24.120] There isn't a single album we've done where until we were given like the
[35:24.120 -> 35:25.600] absolute deadline, if you
[35:25.600 -> 35:29.640] don't miss and get this deadline, the next year is over for you guys.
[35:30.480 -> 35:33.480] When we've hit it, you know, we always need these targets to, to, you know,
[35:33.480 -> 35:37.400] to, to go to, or being put in situations out of a comfort zone, like going in
[35:38.520 -> 35:42.520] when we, when we went in with Rihanna first time in 2009, that's a good
[35:42.520 -> 35:43.760] example because we were so much younger.
[35:43.800 -> 35:47.720] I mean, but we were in the room without making music and we didn't know what the hell we were
[35:47.720 -> 35:52.720] doing. And she's you know, she probably doesn't sound like us, but we
[35:52.720 -> 35:56.400] basically co-produced half an album for her and did loads of stuff with her and we
[35:56.400 -> 35:59.520] just dove straight in. You don't get much more deep in. So how heavy was the
[35:59.520 -> 36:07.280] imposter syndrome? Massive, yeah. I think I have that all the time. I've talked to my wife about that actually, forever.
[36:07.280 -> 36:08.800] Self-doubt and questioning.
[36:08.800 -> 36:12.440] Every session we go to, if it's for someone else, like we've made a whole load of beats
[36:12.440 -> 36:17.640] beforehand, I'm anxious thinking, man, these guys are terrible.
[36:17.640 -> 36:23.160] What are these 12 songs that we spent ages making of garbage and we're totally out of
[36:23.160 -> 36:24.160] sync?
[36:24.160 -> 36:25.880] And there's not been a single occasion where that's been the case.
[36:26.080 -> 36:28.160] And every time we play the songs and the artist likes them,
[36:28.160 -> 36:28.960] they say, these are great.
[36:29.360 -> 36:34.320] The relief is like, Oh, like it's never happened before, but that's always going
[36:34.320 -> 36:37.960] to be the way I think, you know, it's these high, high pressure, high pressure
[36:37.960 -> 36:38.520] works for us.
[36:38.520 -> 36:38.800] I think.
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[39:21.720 -> 39:24.040] How did you deal with the Rihanna situation
[39:24.040 -> 39:29.700] and not allow yourselves to, to compromise yourselves through that fear? Yeah well obviously
[39:29.700 -> 39:35.200] you're equally excited as you are you know terrified and you know we were
[39:35.200 -> 39:38.220] completely terrified of making fools of ourself or just not being good enough
[39:38.220 -> 39:43.020] and you know she was very excited to work with us and it sort of summoned us
[39:43.020 -> 39:48.100] down to this. Which if you've got imposter syndrome is weird in itself. Weird anyway yeah and you know but you know it
[39:48.100 -> 39:51.520] was very lovely about it and said come down to a studio in London for two weeks
[39:51.520 -> 39:54.400] and come down to bring the I'm bringing Jay-Z, Beyonce, the whole team we're all
[39:54.400 -> 39:58.680] gonna be based there I want you in one of the main studios we're gonna roll
[39:58.680 -> 40:08.400] through our whole team make this album together. So this was a while back. We'd just released the first album.
[40:08.400 -> 40:12.000] We'd be there, we'd be there, and we'd be thinking oh my god, what are we going to do?
[40:12.000 -> 40:15.880] We're not American pop producers, we're still writing drum and bass, dubstep, mad stuff
[40:15.880 -> 40:22.720] back then, what the hell are we doing? And again, two people helps, look at each other
[40:22.720 -> 40:27.760] as you're in the front door and you're like,'m sitting here and then you both just laugh you're like well you go first
[40:27.760 -> 40:30.700] at least you're with someone else if it all goes together
[40:30.700 -> 40:34.280] if someone needs a bit of a moment just to take a minute the other
[40:34.280 -> 40:38.880] person could just fill the void for a second so that that helped definitely
[40:38.880 -> 40:46.280] but I guess you know our ambition over overrode that kind of doubt,
[40:47.800 -> 40:51.080] and it's like, this is your chance. This is what you've been fighting for,
[40:51.080 -> 40:54.400] so you only get one chance really at this kind of level.
[40:54.400 -> 40:56.180] So you either turn up to this,
[40:56.180 -> 40:57.640] and you walk through the door,
[40:57.640 -> 41:00.140] and you just lay yourself out,
[41:01.060 -> 41:03.780] and just not worry how it's gonna go,
[41:03.780 -> 41:05.240] or you just make your you know, you make your
[41:05.240 -> 41:08.960] excuses and you don't and you'll live to regret it.
[41:08.960 -> 41:14.160] And it obviously went brilliantly for us and we got a lot of good stuff from that and learned
[41:14.160 -> 41:15.160] a lot.
[41:15.160 -> 41:22.760] But yeah, I think as a trait, we've always forced each other and ourselves just to always,
[41:22.760 -> 41:23.920] always turn up.
[41:23.920 -> 41:25.880] And that means sort of metaphorically and physically.
[41:26.800 -> 41:30.600] Cause some of the language that both of you use about this all or nothing, you
[41:30.600 -> 41:40.320] know, like this is our one shot can often see my train, but it can sound quite
[41:40.360 -> 41:43.600] extreme in terms of anyone listening to it.
[41:44.040 -> 41:51.080] Have you ever had examples where it has gone wrong and you've realized that maybe that that all
[41:51.080 -> 41:55.720] or nothing wasn't what you feared it would be? I mean we've had a couple of
[41:55.720 -> 42:00.880] sessions where it's like they've been horrific you know, left. We've done
[42:00.880 -> 42:04.680] we've released music we didn't like, we've done we've had songs that didn't
[42:04.680 -> 42:05.080] connect, we've had you know bad released music. We didn't like we've, we've done, we've had songs that didn't connect.
[42:05.080 -> 42:09.800] We've, we've had, you know, bad releases and they've had to happen.
[42:10.320 -> 42:11.800] You know, it's, it's cliche, isn't it?
[42:12.320 -> 42:14.360] You had to go through the losses to learn.
[42:14.360 -> 42:17.480] So they wouldn't make the same mistake again, you know, had to go to that dry
[42:17.480 -> 42:21.320] session with, it was ages away and I'm miserable to get there and like totally
[42:21.320 -> 42:23.400] off sync and I couldn't have been the worst connector.
[42:23.440 -> 42:26.640] Why was it in the first place to know I can do that again?
[42:26.640 -> 42:29.280] And I left, you know, done it a hundred times since.
[42:30.480 -> 42:34.160] With the same kind of loss, but you go back to the, what's the, what's the phrase?
[42:34.160 -> 42:37.840] You keep going back to the scene of the crime each time, hoping for a different result.
[42:37.840 -> 42:39.280] And sometimes you do get a different result.
[42:39.280 -> 42:41.840] It's a risk you have to take, you know, you know.
[42:41.840 -> 42:45.920] I'm enjoying this conversation because I'm seeing so so it's like a mirror here for me.
[42:46.120 -> 42:47.880] I mean, very, very different life.
[42:47.920 -> 42:51.280] But when I ended up on kids TV, I was exactly
[42:51.280 -> 42:52.000] the same as you two.
[42:52.040 -> 42:54.200] It was the environment where you had to fight
[42:54.240 -> 42:57.080] and scrap and be absolutely self-obsessed.
[42:57.120 -> 42:57.280] Yeah.
[42:57.320 -> 42:57.920] Not so obsessed.
[42:58.160 -> 42:58.320] Yeah.
[42:58.320 -> 42:58.720] Absolutely.
[42:58.720 -> 42:59.200] Totally.
[42:59.200 -> 42:59.560] Yeah.
[42:59.560 -> 42:59.840] Yeah.
[42:59.840 -> 43:02.160] Totally determined, totally ready to be the
[43:02.160 -> 43:03.000] person that makes the move.
[43:03.000 -> 43:07.400] And then I ended up in formula one and felt not dissimilar to how you felt at
[43:07.400 -> 43:09.880] times in your career that everyone was expecting a fail and a flop.
[43:09.880 -> 43:12.480] The only way through is to find it within yourself and it's not
[43:12.480 -> 43:14.360] going to come from anybody else.
[43:15.560 -> 43:19.000] So it leads me to a question because I reflect sometimes on my TV presenting
[43:19.000 -> 43:21.160] career and think, could I've enjoyed it more?
[43:21.440 -> 43:21.800] Oh yeah.
[43:21.800 -> 43:23.360] But yeah, I mean, the answer is yes.
[43:23.360 -> 43:24.800] Oh, the answer is yes.
[43:24.800 -> 43:25.040] So, you know, but then what would you, the answer is yes. Oh, love it. The answer is yes. Big time.
[43:25.040 -> 43:26.240] You know, big time.
[43:26.240 -> 43:29.360] But then, what would you not have had though in return for the enjoyment?
[43:29.360 -> 43:34.560] We'd still be at the bar, you know, and I think maybe that's a sacrifice that you have to make
[43:36.000 -> 43:38.720] to get to a high level in anything you do, right?
[43:38.720 -> 43:42.480] I think probably most people would say along the way, looking back,
[43:42.480 -> 43:49.180] they could have maybe stopped and paused and just, know enjoyed the moment a bit more but I think it's impossible to do
[43:49.180 -> 43:54.280] that because or very hard to do that and actually it feels like you could say
[43:54.280 -> 43:59.640] well was that a sacrifice but I think that what you get in the long run
[43:59.640 -> 44:04.480] outweighs maybe that that small sacrifice and you know trying to achieve
[44:04.480 -> 44:08.640] your dreams or even get close to them is probably worth that that small bit of sacrifice
[44:08.640 -> 44:13.000] and actually are you actually missing out on that much you know I don't know
[44:13.000 -> 44:17.160] we've not been too bad you know we obviously have celebrated and but we
[44:17.160 -> 44:21.920] have been quite single-minded about our sort of obsession of being successful
[44:21.920 -> 44:25.040] and doing well and maybe that's a small sacrifice,
[44:25.040 -> 44:28.160] but I think long run, I wouldn't change a thing really.
[44:28.160 -> 44:32.000] Not a single thing, even any of the things that weren't, you know, like we say like certain
[44:32.000 -> 44:34.880] tracks shouldn't have been on certain albums, certain albums of ours should have been shorter,
[44:34.880 -> 44:38.400] this track should have been for someone else, not for us, blah blah, but fundamentally it's
[44:38.400 -> 44:41.680] all led to this and where we are now and how we are with our families and everything and I
[44:41.680 -> 44:46.000] wouldn't change a thing. I think that five studio albums.
[44:46.000 -> 44:46.840] This is about to be our sixth.
[44:46.840 -> 44:47.680] About to be our sixth, yeah.
[44:47.680 -> 44:50.240] Sixth on its way to an NME nomination,
[44:50.240 -> 44:53.560] a Brit nomination, you've played the O2,
[44:53.560 -> 44:56.560] you've won awards, you've had amazing hits.
[44:57.680 -> 45:00.320] There's no party, there is no night out
[45:00.320 -> 45:02.520] that would ever feel as good today
[45:02.520 -> 45:06.240] as that story would feel when you sit here
[45:08.240 -> 45:08.400] Exactly I think you take a quiet
[45:14.680 -> 45:16.000] Quiet comfort rather than you know, we don't need to do that, you know to kind of acknowledge our successes and I think
[45:17.200 -> 45:19.520] You know We we kind of know, you know
[45:19.520 -> 45:22.440] We're proud of each other and our work that we've done and we just sort of
[45:22.880 -> 45:26.040] Quietly kind of acknowledge that rather than need to shout about it.
[45:26.040 -> 45:27.640] My eldest daughter, she's six.
[45:27.640 -> 45:31.040] She's just starting to kind of understand,
[45:31.040 -> 45:34.080] figuring out something about what I may potentially
[45:34.080 -> 45:35.480] be idea of doing.
[45:36.600 -> 45:37.840] You're going to work again, daddy.
[45:37.840 -> 45:39.400] I'm like, it was just you last night.
[45:39.400 -> 45:42.000] And mommy goes, daddy makes music that people listen to
[45:42.000 -> 45:42.840] and dance to.
[45:42.840 -> 45:44.280] I'm like, that's cool.
[45:44.280 -> 45:46.000] And she's starting, I'm like, okay,
[45:46.000 -> 45:48.240] when they're going to start thinking I'm cool
[45:48.240 -> 45:49.960] or like what I'm doing,
[45:49.960 -> 45:52.840] then I just might start, that might be a real like, wow.
[45:52.840 -> 45:54.200] Fortunately, I'm going to break it to you now, bro.
[45:54.200 -> 45:55.840] They're never going to be cool.
[45:55.840 -> 45:56.680] They will for a bit.
[45:56.680 -> 45:57.680] You will never be cool.
[45:57.680 -> 45:59.160] They will for a bit, but like,
[45:59.160 -> 46:02.440] that's an exciting feeling, you know, like, wow,
[46:02.440 -> 46:04.160] they might see this thing.
[46:04.160 -> 46:08.960] The legacy at least. But that's an interesting area that you talk about being parents and
[46:08.960 -> 46:13.440] partners now because that obsessive element that you had in your early 20s
[46:13.440 -> 46:18.840] when you two single lads going out how have you woven in being parents and
[46:18.840 -> 46:23.560] partners and married it up with this obsession of still loving your child?
[46:23.560 -> 46:26.480] My wife she should be here yeah, she should ask her what it's like living with me.
[46:26.540 -> 46:29.040] You know, I was just the poor, the poor, the poor girl.
[46:29.040 -> 46:31.480] I mean, she's, she's got three kids.
[46:33.280 -> 46:35.360] She, she, she's, she's, she's, she's great.
[46:35.400 -> 46:37.000] Um, I'm not easy to live with.
[46:37.040 -> 46:38.760] I understand that, you know, I'm difficult.
[46:38.800 -> 46:42.160] Um, and yeah, I'm obsessive and all this and the career is quite.
[46:42.760 -> 46:43.500] In an extra.
[46:43.500 -> 46:47.080] So like this, this week, for instance, is our busiest week based so far this
[46:47.080 -> 46:49.880] year with sessions and, and interviews and so on and so forth.
[46:50.160 -> 46:51.880] And it's also your first week of half term.
[46:52.000 -> 46:55.480] So she's just there with the kids who were stuck to her like glue, you know?
[46:55.960 -> 46:59.280] Um, but I think the obsession comes out with everything, even at home, like,
[46:59.320 -> 47:06.200] um, I've, I've, I've got two dogs, crazy dog fuck person. And I walk them every single day without fail
[47:06.200 -> 47:08.080] at the same time, without fail.
[47:08.080 -> 47:10.480] And like the thing that goes through my mind,
[47:10.480 -> 47:11.800] if I haven't walked them,
[47:11.800 -> 47:13.120] even like I haven't walked them today,
[47:13.120 -> 47:15.640] so I got in late, all I'm thinking about is
[47:15.640 -> 47:16.560] gotta get back and walk them,
[47:16.560 -> 47:17.400] gotta get back and walk them.
[47:17.400 -> 47:18.800] Like they need to walk, they need to walk.
[47:18.800 -> 47:20.960] They, you know, like it goes everywhere,
[47:20.960 -> 47:23.480] but it doesn't, it comes out in different places, you know.
[47:23.480 -> 47:28.140] So if your daughter started to develop some of these characteristics you'd recognize
[47:28.140 -> 47:33.400] in yourself like this obsessive nature or maybe the compulsive element, would
[47:33.400 -> 47:38.880] you encourage it or would you look to maybe divert it? You know, I kind of understand like
[47:38.880 -> 47:42.680] you know there's not really, there's no choice, she's not thinking oh I want to
[47:42.680 -> 47:45.000] be like this, I want to suddenly do that.
[47:45.000 -> 47:46.200] It's like, it's in, it's inbuilt.
[47:46.200 -> 47:48.200] So rather than be like, why are you doing that?
[47:48.200 -> 47:48.600] You know?
[47:48.600 -> 47:50.400] Oh, I know why.
[47:50.400 -> 47:53.400] Also, let's have this conversation for a lot of people that think similarly to you.
[47:53.400 -> 47:58.700] So is it can be a really valuable and useful element of your life.
[47:58.700 -> 48:00.100] It gets stuff done.
[48:00.100 -> 48:04.600] Well, I think if we had to like talk about OCDs, I think will is very fastidious and
[48:04.600 -> 48:14.400] neat and perfectionist, organized, you know, and I'm a complete mess, but the OCD is like,
[48:14.400 -> 48:18.280] you know, I remember a conversation we had like three years ago, word for word and like
[48:18.280 -> 48:22.480] send him a message, send him it, you know, I'm like, I like detail, I'm no details, things
[48:22.480 -> 48:24.080] like that, like to the point.
[48:24.080 -> 48:27.080] And like, he's very particular like that. And I'm messy, I'm no details, things like that, like to the point. And like, he's very particular like that.
[48:27.080 -> 48:29.480] And I'm messy, but obsessed with things.
[48:29.480 -> 48:32.840] It's two different OCDs, but they kind of work together.
[48:32.840 -> 48:34.720] And when you perform live,
[48:34.720 -> 48:36.640] which I don't know whether you would agree
[48:36.640 -> 48:38.880] is like the way to see Chasing Status, right?
[48:38.880 -> 48:40.200] Yeah, definitely, man.
[48:40.200 -> 48:41.400] How controlled is that?
[48:42.520 -> 48:47.000] Well, I mean, it's a big production, which is quite technical.
[48:47.000 -> 48:50.000] So we're trying to fuse electronic music with live music and
[48:50.000 -> 48:51.000] And visuals.
[48:51.000 -> 48:56.000] And in the same production as well, which is, yeah, visuals and lighting and stuff.
[48:56.000 -> 49:04.000] So it's quite controlled in the sense that we're not an acoustic band jamming on a stage
[49:04.000 -> 49:09.000] that can just flip between songs whenever we want, stop, start.
[49:09.000 -> 49:14.000] There's a controlled sense to the show, it's quite rehearsed basically.
[49:14.000 -> 49:25.920] I think that goes along with A, probably the genre of the style of music and what we're trying to do in that sphere. But we definitely run a tight shit with the crew
[49:25.920 -> 49:28.520] and there's 30 people involved with a live show
[49:28.520 -> 49:32.560] and our manager is equally controlled
[49:32.560 -> 49:34.720] and that's why we work well with her
[49:34.720 -> 49:37.360] and she's obsessed about the detail
[49:37.360 -> 49:39.680] and working with other people like that.
[49:39.680 -> 49:43.120] And so I guess that's, we wouldn't be this successful
[49:43.120 -> 49:45.960] without brilliant people helping us.
[49:45.960 -> 49:49.680] And we recognize the same traits we have in other people,
[49:49.680 -> 49:53.040] that attention to detail and obsession about getting things
[49:53.040 -> 49:55.040] really to a proper level.
[49:55.040 -> 49:56.680] Those are the people we tend to work with.
[49:56.680 -> 49:59.960] And because of that, I would say we've been very blessed
[49:59.960 -> 50:01.720] with amazing people throughout our lives,
[50:01.720 -> 50:03.800] whether it's our lawyer, our accountant,
[50:03.800 -> 50:06.580] our live production manager, our agents.
[50:06.580 -> 50:10.140] They're all kind of similar to us in varying ways,
[50:10.140 -> 50:13.460] but so that's something we hold dearly, yeah.
[50:13.460 -> 50:15.040] This is when it sort of changes a bit,
[50:15.040 -> 50:16.460] because when it's just a duo,
[50:16.460 -> 50:17.860] there's only one other person's emotions
[50:17.860 -> 50:20.220] to take into account, and if you offend that person,
[50:20.220 -> 50:23.500] it's kind of okay to go and say sorry, and it's done.
[50:23.500 -> 50:24.840] When you talk about doing the live show
[50:24.840 -> 50:26.160] with this amount of staff,
[50:26.160 -> 50:27.900] you know, the two of you and your manager,
[50:27.900 -> 50:30.360] you're kind of like the CEO, the MD,
[50:30.360 -> 50:33.400] and the COO of a business at that point.
[50:33.400 -> 50:35.560] So I'm really interested how you share the messaging
[50:35.560 -> 50:36.960] with the people that are not on the stage
[50:36.960 -> 50:38.000] and aren't getting the adulation
[50:38.000 -> 50:40.760] and won't be making the big bucks from the show,
[50:40.760 -> 50:42.160] or the people that aren't good enough.
[50:42.160 -> 50:43.400] How do you deal with that?
[50:43.400 -> 50:45.080] And how do you put a team together?
[50:45.080 -> 50:46.760] Fascinated by that.
[50:46.760 -> 50:48.760] Yeah, it's what I'm saying.
[50:48.760 -> 50:49.600] Go on.
[50:49.600 -> 50:53.520] I guess, I mean, our agent as well is literally the sort of
[50:53.520 -> 50:56.200] CFO or COO as well.
[50:56.200 -> 50:59.240] He's someone we've been with for, since the very start.
[50:59.240 -> 51:01.160] And, um,
[51:01.160 -> 51:02.920] I say the start from back in.
[51:02.920 -> 51:03.760] Yeah, yeah.
[51:03.760 -> 51:04.600] Yeah.
[51:04.600 -> 51:05.280] He's our first agent. Yeah. It's just sort of literally the, yeah, yeah. It was our first agent.
[51:05.560 -> 51:09.080] Yeah. It's just sort of literally the, you know, the backbone of our entire life.
[51:09.080 -> 51:09.840] Definitely.
[51:09.880 -> 51:15.000] Um, and, and I, I guess we are good at letting people get on with their jobs.
[51:15.000 -> 51:18.880] Once you trust someone, uh, and you know, they're awesome.
[51:19.160 -> 51:24.960] Uh, and, uh, on the same kind of level as you, you just do you then what we don't do
[51:24.960 -> 51:27.580] is we don't kind of micromanage too much.
[51:27.580 -> 51:30.200] And we don't, we're not always in people's business.
[51:30.200 -> 51:33.120] And we're like, oh, actually, I think the controlling nature
[51:33.120 -> 51:36.520] that we talked about isn't, we don't try too much
[51:36.520 -> 51:39.140] to control everyone else around us all the time,
[51:39.140 -> 51:40.980] which, as we have in the past,
[51:40.980 -> 51:42.140] I've been probably guilty of that.
[51:42.140 -> 51:45.680] And you can definitely see that that doesn't react well.
[51:45.680 -> 51:47.680] And you actually just start messing everyone up.
[51:47.680 -> 51:51.080] And so we definitely let a team that we love and know now
[51:51.080 -> 51:51.960] just get on with it.
[51:51.960 -> 51:55.200] And that's lovely for us because it means we can get on
[51:55.200 -> 51:57.980] with our work and have full trust in the people around us
[51:57.980 -> 51:59.880] to make difficult decisions.
[51:59.880 -> 52:01.760] What do you think, Saul?
[52:01.760 -> 52:02.600] Yeah.
[52:02.600 -> 52:03.480] Yeah.
[52:03.480 -> 52:04.960] Is it harder with your obsession?
[52:04.960 -> 52:05.900] Like sometimes when you see
[52:05.900 -> 52:09.660] people not to let it go? Well you know it's kind of like yes and no like I
[52:09.660 -> 52:13.620] notice a lot of things like if things look like incorrect or something I'm
[52:13.620 -> 52:17.500] always, yeah you're always want to notice it you know like that's a typo we can't
[52:17.500 -> 52:21.860] put that out you name it I'm that eagle-eyed on that. You keep people on your toes.
[52:21.860 -> 52:25.640] That's definitely, how do you do that?
[52:25.640 -> 52:26.080] Quality.
[52:26.120 -> 52:28.200] I just being obsessed with absolutely.
[52:29.320 -> 52:29.560] Yeah.
[52:29.560 -> 52:32.200] So I know, you know, I could take it on all those elements.
[52:32.200 -> 52:34.500] I'm always quick to know, like, these are the wrong track listing.
[52:34.500 -> 52:35.160] This is the wrong order.
[52:35.200 -> 52:35.900] That's the wrong thing.
[52:35.900 -> 52:36.740] That's a full stop.
[52:36.740 -> 52:37.400] That should be a comma.
[52:38.000 -> 52:42.560] Well, that kind of annoying stuff, but what I'm, what I don't actually, like
[52:42.560 -> 52:47.200] we'll say that the micro management is I'm not telling my agent, I don't actually, like Will said in the micro-management is I'm not telling my agent how to do his job.
[52:47.640 -> 52:48.200] I don't know.
[52:48.200 -> 52:50.160] He's the best agent in the world for me.
[52:50.400 -> 52:52.360] So he, you know, I basically, what do you think?
[52:52.360 -> 52:53.080] Oh, we should, we do this.
[52:53.080 -> 52:53.720] He's like, yeah.
[52:54.200 -> 52:55.000] Well, no, I don't think so.
[52:55.000 -> 52:56.040] And I agree.
[52:56.520 -> 52:57.840] Generally we agree.
[52:57.880 -> 53:00.240] If we don't agree, believe me, I'll say so.
[53:00.800 -> 53:05.280] But, um, yeah, it's all about kind of controlling the things that I feel,
[53:05.320 -> 53:11.240] I feel that I'm able to have genuine input on and not be like talking rubbish.
[53:11.520 -> 53:15.280] And if it's something that I have really no, no clue about, I'm like, I'll trust
[53:15.280 -> 53:19.000] the experts and if it's, if it's one of us, you know, if it was like, no, I know
[53:19.000 -> 53:21.360] I'm like, cool, I'll follow your lead on that.
[53:21.720 -> 53:27.720] So can I ask you about the dynamic between you two? Because I'm getting echoes of an interview we did
[53:27.720 -> 53:30.680] with an entrepreneur called Holly Tucker,
[53:30.680 -> 53:34.000] who founded a business called NotOnTheHighStreet.com,
[53:34.000 -> 53:36.960] where she spoke about her and her business partner.
[53:36.960 -> 53:39.400] She described them as the yin to their yang.
[53:39.400 -> 53:41.320] So one of them was creative,
[53:41.320 -> 53:42.920] one of them was brilliant at the detail
[53:42.920 -> 53:44.880] of running the business.
[53:44.880 -> 53:47.160] Is it as clearly defined as that between you two?
[53:47.160 -> 53:51.000] Not probably as clearly defined but I mean that we're definitely yin and yang
[53:51.000 -> 53:54.680] I think you know people have mentioned that we talk about that a lot. Saul also
[53:54.680 -> 54:00.240] said earlier on good cop bad cop which I mean probably less so now you know we're
[54:00.240 -> 54:03.320] probably more similar now than we used to be but...
[54:03.320 -> 54:04.320] And I'm softer as I know you.
[54:04.320 -> 54:06.800] Yeah exactly but... So were you the bad cop?
[54:06.800 -> 54:11.360] Yeah I still am. But like it used to be like what was that film?
[54:11.360 -> 54:14.880] The worst cop. Where half the guy tells a really bad one.
[54:14.880 -> 54:18.240] Yeah I mean that one. Bad cop, bad lieutenant whatever.
[54:18.240 -> 54:21.120] No maybe not quite yeah that was a film but that is a deep, deep one.
[54:21.120 -> 54:24.480] It definitely um yeah the good cop bad cop thing was is
[54:24.480 -> 54:25.160] is great
[54:25.160 -> 54:28.480] because obviously sometimes it's nice to get on with people
[54:28.480 -> 54:30.760] and work with people on that level
[54:30.760 -> 54:32.980] and sometimes it's good to let people know
[54:32.980 -> 54:34.400] that you're not gonna be a pushover.
[54:34.400 -> 54:37.560] And probably if it's up to me,
[54:37.560 -> 54:40.280] I'm probably too nice and could particularly back.
[54:40.280 -> 54:41.640] It's reversed now, mate, I'll tell you that.
[54:41.640 -> 54:42.720] Yeah, it's probably reversed now.
[54:42.720 -> 54:43.560] But you know.
[54:43.560 -> 54:44.720] He's soft and he's unbelievable.
[54:44.720 -> 54:47.440] Particularly when you're trying to make it and you get out of that
[54:47.440 -> 54:50.640] difficult phase where everyone's trying to do the same as you and it's, it's
[54:50.640 -> 54:54.320] people try to take the mick at the start. A couple of people tried it.
[54:54.400 -> 54:58.160] You get walked all over all the time. And exactly. And so, you know, so it was
[54:58.160 -> 55:01.960] very good at being like, uh, I don't think so, you know, this is what we
[55:01.960 -> 55:05.520] want. And it was real cheeky stuff like, well, just,
[55:05.520 -> 55:09.480] just try not to give you advances or like agreed in advance with one of us.
[55:09.480 -> 55:11.480] And then as the thing is coming along, the advance isn't the same.
[55:11.480 -> 55:13.320] I'm like, we agreed this, we all heard the conversation.
[55:13.680 -> 55:18.840] And for me, well, speaking to people way above us, you know, we're just thinking
[55:18.840 -> 55:21.320] they could just sort of say, you know what you two had done.
[55:21.760 -> 55:23.880] And he was there going, I don't give a damn.
[55:24.440 -> 55:24.960] Trust me.
[55:24.960 -> 55:28.320] This is, Oh my God, you know, this is not going to end well for us.
[55:28.520 -> 55:30.320] And it always ended well for us.
[55:30.320 -> 55:33.800] And it's because for me, and it's led to us getting a lot of calls from our peers
[55:33.800 -> 55:36.880] saying, Hey, can I get a bit of advice here and that, and the simplest advice is
[55:37.440 -> 55:42.000] for, we took for ourselves is if you go into this game, into this world that you
[55:42.000 -> 55:47.440] love so much, just desperate and grateful to be given the opportunity
[55:47.440 -> 55:49.080] that like, they're so high and mighty
[55:49.080 -> 55:51.720] and your music is just, thank you so much for having it.
[55:51.720 -> 55:53.320] It's the wrong attitude to have.
[55:53.320 -> 55:54.880] You need to know your worth.
[55:54.880 -> 55:57.240] And like, straight away, just be like,
[55:57.240 -> 55:59.680] well, this is maybe not the remuneration of it.
[55:59.680 -> 56:01.840] Just like, this is worth something more than that.
[56:01.840 -> 56:04.240] And you're not having it until we get what we want.
[56:04.240 -> 56:05.280] And if you want it, you can have it.
[56:05.280 -> 56:06.920] If you don't, it's all good.
[56:06.920 -> 56:09.880] And with that, people were like, fair enough.
[56:09.880 -> 56:12.080] Let's talk rather than like, oh yeah,
[56:12.080 -> 56:13.400] I gave so-and-so a song for free
[56:13.400 -> 56:15.040] because I'm so pleased to be on X and Y.
[56:15.040 -> 56:17.480] I'm like, great, you'll never get paid ever.
[56:17.480 -> 56:19.760] You know, you got to start where you mean to go on basically.
[56:19.760 -> 56:21.200] And that was important for us.
[56:21.200 -> 56:24.000] So did you two ever sit down and formally agree
[56:24.000 -> 56:46.600] what type of roles or characteristics- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and stick to these kind of rules written down, agreed, things get a bit stiff
[56:46.600 -> 56:48.120] and then if someone doesn't, and then it's like,
[56:48.120 -> 56:50.200] well, you didn't do that and we said,
[56:50.200 -> 56:52.680] and you end up bickering about the detail.
[56:52.680 -> 56:54.560] And I think at some point you just have to trust
[56:54.560 -> 56:57.600] that each other, it's not always perfectly 50-50.
[56:57.600 -> 56:59.360] Sometimes someone else does more of the work,
[56:59.360 -> 57:01.800] sometimes that will swing around
[57:01.800 -> 57:03.760] and then another time, you know what I mean?
[57:03.760 -> 57:08.000] You can't always put everything like, right, you're doing exactly that and I'll do exactly this.
[57:08.000 -> 57:10.400] Otherwise you spend so much time manifesting.
[57:10.400 -> 57:11.400] I do more than you do.
[57:11.400 -> 57:12.400] You do more.
[57:12.400 -> 57:16.600] I mean, the reason I ask is because you made the comment, well, that like, that you've changed.
[57:16.600 -> 57:20.200] So yeah, that Sol was a bad cop and now you say, well actually it's probably more of me.
[57:20.200 -> 57:20.800] So yeah.
[57:20.800 -> 57:24.600] So you've obviously adapted as you've been working together for so long.
[57:24.600 -> 57:32.720] Maybe it's bad cop and long. I think, yeah, I mean, I think again, you know, we, when we, when we were starting out,
[57:32.720 -> 57:34.760] things were way more intense with our working relationship.
[57:34.760 -> 57:36.160] Cause it's just me and Saul, right?
[57:36.160 -> 57:37.160] We did everything.
[57:37.160 -> 57:38.160] We managed ourselves.
[57:38.160 -> 57:40.400] We were basically, we did everything.
[57:40.400 -> 57:43.480] We lived a street from each other, studio every day.
[57:43.480 -> 57:45.000] We were managing our entire careers.
[57:45.000 -> 57:49.000] Now we're blessed to have a big team of great people taking that pressure off us.
[57:49.000 -> 57:55.000] So really our work is a bit more fun and creative and like, right, how do we make cool tunes again?
[57:55.000 -> 58:01.000] We're not so worried about the strategy and, you know, we're across it with our team,
[58:01.000 -> 58:06.960] but it's not reliant on me or him to sort of pull our fingers out and get it right.
[58:06.960 -> 58:11.120] And so it's a bit, yeah, we don't have to have
[58:11.120 -> 58:13.960] that sort of intense kind of working relationship
[58:13.960 -> 58:15.840] as much as we did when we were-
[58:15.840 -> 58:18.080] And as you get to this sixth album,
[58:18.080 -> 58:20.280] do you both get this sense that you may be working
[58:20.280 -> 58:21.600] with more freedom than ever before?
[58:21.600 -> 58:23.200] Because you have got people to carry that load.
[58:23.200 -> 58:24.040] Yeah, kind of.
[58:24.040 -> 58:26.040] You have achieved an incredible amount.
[58:26.040 -> 58:29.400] Like literally you could never do another day's work
[58:29.400 -> 58:31.320] and you've been a success.
[58:31.320 -> 58:32.640] Yeah, well, you know what?
[58:32.640 -> 58:35.840] I mean, that's almost like where the name came from.
[58:35.840 -> 58:39.640] I think we got to a point after our last album
[58:39.640 -> 58:43.120] and the time thinking about life through lockdown
[58:43.120 -> 58:45.440] and whatever and reflecting and stuff.
[58:45.440 -> 58:48.240] And just thinking like, wow, we have kind of come
[58:48.240 -> 58:50.900] full circle to a point where we feel now
[58:50.900 -> 58:53.200] we can make music and do what we love doing
[58:53.200 -> 58:56.300] with the freedom that we had when we were in Manchester
[58:56.300 -> 58:58.580] without anything to lose.
[58:58.580 -> 59:00.420] And without the pressures of that second album
[59:00.420 -> 59:02.160] or the career to maintain
[59:02.160 -> 59:04.640] or the business side of it getting involved,
[59:04.640 -> 59:07.480] we sort of got to a point where it was like,
[59:07.480 -> 59:09.980] wow, we've had an amazing legacy and career,
[59:09.980 -> 59:13.460] and amazing 15 years of experiences that we treasure,
[59:13.460 -> 59:15.860] and let's use all of that to sort of go back
[59:15.860 -> 59:18.360] to how we felt at the start.
[59:18.360 -> 59:19.960] And that's where the album title came from,
[59:19.960 -> 59:20.800] What Came Before.
[59:20.800 -> 59:21.620] It's kind of like,
[59:21.620 -> 59:23.020] What Came Before was just the freedom to do
[59:23.020 -> 59:26.280] what we love doing without thinking about anything else.
[59:29.320 -> 59:29.560] Listen, we've reached the point where we go into our quickfire questions.
[59:30.960 -> 59:32.400] This will take double the time it normally does. It won't be particularly quickfire.
[59:32.400 -> 59:36.920] And I'm looking forward to the first answer to this one, which is your three
[59:37.000 -> 59:41.680] non-negotiables that you have to deliver and the people around you have to deliver.
[59:41.800 -> 59:43.920] What are the three things that you always bring to the table?
[59:44.240 -> 59:45.240] Uh, kind of traits, um, being on time. Time. Yeah. you have to deliver? What are the three things that you always bring to the table?
[59:45.240 -> 59:46.480] Kind of traits.
[59:47.680 -> 59:48.520] Being on time.
[59:48.520 -> 59:49.340] On time?
[59:49.340 -> 59:50.180] Yeah.
[59:50.180 -> 59:52.000] Being clear communicator.
[59:52.000 -> 59:53.480] Does that count as being reliable?
[59:53.480 -> 59:54.920] On time, yeah, as I said, isn't it?
[59:54.920 -> 59:56.760] Kind of, I mean, being, yeah.
[59:56.760 -> 59:57.600] You're allowed six, by the way,
[59:57.600 -> 59:58.440] because there was two of you.
[59:58.440 -> 01:00:01.000] Okay, reliable, because we're definitely reliable.
[01:00:01.000 -> 01:00:03.180] We're pretty much on time.
[01:00:04.360 -> 01:00:07.000] I think for me, community, communicating,
[01:00:07.000 -> 01:00:10.120] things can get really complex and people that,
[01:00:10.120 -> 01:00:11.960] people that can't communicate simply.
[01:00:11.960 -> 01:00:12.800] Keep it simple.
[01:00:12.800 -> 01:00:13.620] Very simple.
[01:00:13.620 -> 01:00:14.800] Keep things simple, yeah.
[01:00:14.800 -> 01:00:15.640] Less is more.
[01:00:15.640 -> 01:00:16.480] Yeah.
[01:00:17.360 -> 01:00:18.200] What else?
[01:00:18.200 -> 01:00:19.040] Honest.
[01:00:19.040 -> 01:00:21.440] Honest, I think, has to be the first, man.
[01:00:21.440 -> 01:00:22.280] The absolute first.
[01:00:22.280 -> 01:00:23.100] You'd have that as number one with you.
[01:00:23.100 -> 01:00:24.800] I think I would have it, honesty.
[01:00:24.800 -> 01:00:25.840] Honesty. Yeah. Because, you know, with me personally,
[01:00:25.840 -> 01:00:29.960] it can obviously get me some situations, but just, it has taught me more to the
[01:00:29.960 -> 01:00:32.120] point, but being honest, just be straight.
[01:00:32.120 -> 01:00:33.440] It doesn't be straight with us.
[01:00:33.440 -> 01:00:34.520] It gets you into a situation.
[01:00:34.520 -> 01:00:36.200] It doesn't, it doesn't just be straight.
[01:00:36.240 -> 01:00:37.200] Whatever it is with us.
[01:00:37.240 -> 01:00:38.520] You're not happy with something.
[01:00:38.640 -> 01:00:40.080] You are happy with something great.
[01:00:40.480 -> 01:00:42.400] Every now and again, it's nice to hear that you're happy.
[01:00:42.760 -> 01:00:47.880] Um, but like, yeah, if you're not happy, we want to know immediately.
[01:00:48.080 -> 01:00:52.760] Please don't, you know, don't hide it or go elsewhere and say it just we're here.
[01:00:52.760 -> 01:00:54.760] And we, we, and what is it?
[01:00:54.880 -> 01:00:58.840] What's the word for, if there ever is a situation, we always want to sort it out.
[01:00:59.120 -> 01:01:02.240] If we make a mistake or quick to, we're quick to realize it, you know,
[01:01:02.640 -> 01:01:04.360] and like take accountability.
[01:01:04.520 -> 01:01:08.640] What advice would you give to a teenage Will and a teenage soul just starting out?
[01:01:09.680 -> 01:01:13.680] Don't wear your ponytail so tight because one day your hair's going to be a bit thinner and you'll be really upset about it.
[01:01:14.520 -> 01:01:17.960] Just probably, um, there's the truth right there.
[01:01:18.160 -> 01:01:18.680] That's it.
[01:01:19.360 -> 01:01:20.040] Yeah.
[01:01:20.080 -> 01:01:27.340] Um, again, I know it's so cliched and horrific to say, but if we changed anything we did,
[01:01:27.340 -> 01:01:35.520] be it going to the Rays back then, to Bagley's, to anything at Manchester, I wouldn't change
[01:01:35.520 -> 01:01:36.520] a thing.
[01:01:36.520 -> 01:01:42.400] I'll tell you what, maybe I'd say to young me, if you can, try and find someone else
[01:01:42.400 -> 01:01:45.360] that's into what you're into and try and find someone else
[01:01:48.000 -> 01:01:51.960] into what you're into and try and do something with them. Because it's definitely, being on your own is tough.
[01:01:51.960 -> 01:01:55.640] And I think every successful person has someone with them,
[01:01:55.640 -> 01:01:58.840] whether they're in profile or not.
[01:01:58.840 -> 01:02:00.240] They might be a quiet partner or something.
[01:02:00.240 -> 01:02:01.980] But just to be on your own,
[01:02:01.980 -> 01:02:05.200] particularly as a forward-facing artist, is tough.
[01:02:05.200 -> 01:02:11.840] And so find someone that you can build something with and work with.
[01:02:11.840 -> 01:02:12.960] Anything to add, Sol?
[01:02:12.960 -> 01:02:15.760] One decision that we made, I think, that Will and I made,
[01:02:15.760 -> 01:02:18.800] actually I think was the real fork in the street one,
[01:02:18.800 -> 01:02:21.760] where you can either go this way and go the long way around,
[01:02:21.760 -> 01:02:24.000] because we knew we were going to make it anyhow at some stage,
[01:02:24.000 -> 01:02:26.400] or, okay, this is how it's going to start.
[01:02:26.400 -> 01:02:27.880] Move you boys now.
[01:02:27.880 -> 01:02:31.080] Is, came down from Manchester with a dub plate,
[01:02:31.080 -> 01:02:33.160] went to Black Market Records, played for the DJ in there,
[01:02:33.160 -> 01:02:36.520] and he took the dub plate off me,
[01:02:36.520 -> 01:02:37.720] and he said, if I can keep this,
[01:02:37.720 -> 01:02:39.280] I'll play it tonight at Fabric.
[01:02:40.520 -> 01:02:42.920] Called up Will, he was like, what is this mad thing to do?
[01:02:42.920 -> 01:02:44.000] Why are we doing this?
[01:02:47.200 -> 01:02:49.160] We discussed it for a minute, then decided it's a good idea. Gave the kid the thing.
[01:02:49.160 -> 01:02:50.960] Thought I'd never hear from him ever again.
[01:02:50.960 -> 01:02:53.000] 3 a.m. that morning, phone call from Kid at Fabric,
[01:02:53.000 -> 01:02:55.040] people going crazy, bam, bam, bam,
[01:02:55.040 -> 01:02:56.320] my sister wants to talk to you.
[01:02:56.320 -> 01:02:58.220] His sister ended up signing the record for us
[01:02:58.220 -> 01:03:00.480] on the Monday, our lives changed.
[01:03:00.480 -> 01:03:02.820] We were like, this is gonna happen, this is starting to happen.
[01:03:02.820 -> 01:03:07.640] And it would be to remind myself, the young me of that moment, because
[01:03:07.640 -> 01:03:11.920] you forget those things and actually like taking that real punt, like
[01:03:11.920 -> 01:03:14.680] we'd driven down to my master for three hours, gone to a dub cutting
[01:03:14.680 -> 01:03:17.600] house, cut that for ages, spent our last few kids on it, gone to black
[01:03:17.600 -> 01:03:19.040] market records, paid to this geezer.
[01:03:20.000 -> 01:03:20.840] And I've given it to him.
[01:03:21.280 -> 01:03:23.320] My friend who drove me there was like, you are an idiot.
[01:03:23.680 -> 01:03:26.240] I've driven you all around the country and you've given the thing away.
[01:03:26.600 -> 01:03:27.440] Get out my car.
[01:03:27.560 -> 01:03:29.280] Like pretty much live it.
[01:03:30.000 -> 01:03:33.560] And it was just remind myself, you know, sometimes you've got to take that scary
[01:03:33.560 -> 01:03:36.760] leap because if we didn't take that leap, which at the time it was a big leap for
[01:03:36.760 -> 01:03:40.040] us, like I said, you know, it was a wasted trip coming down from Manchester,
[01:03:40.040 -> 01:03:40.840] spending all our money.
[01:03:41.000 -> 01:03:42.760] We didn't have 50 quid at all.
[01:03:43.240 -> 01:03:45.440] And that leap end up, you know, being, being the start of it.
[01:03:45.600 -> 01:03:47.320] So it was really, really, really good lesson as well.
[01:03:47.320 -> 01:03:50.280] That for people listening to this, because people will be thinking, right,
[01:03:50.280 -> 01:03:51.360] okay, I understand this now.
[01:03:51.360 -> 01:03:52.880] I'm going to be like the guys I'm going to be.
[01:03:53.240 -> 01:03:55.720] I'm going to really believe it's going to happen, but I'm going to marry that
[01:03:55.720 -> 01:04:00.200] belief with an incredible work ethic, unbelievable attention to detail and
[01:04:00.200 -> 01:04:02.400] strong communication, but you know what?
[01:04:02.400 -> 01:04:04.800] The thing that changed your entire careers was totally out of your hands.
[01:04:06.240 -> 01:04:07.840] You, you didn't control that moment. You didn't control that moment,
[01:04:07.840 -> 01:04:09.360] you didn't know that moment was gonna happen.
[01:04:09.360 -> 01:04:11.320] And that is also a really important lesson for people,
[01:04:11.320 -> 01:04:14.240] is like, the universe has to play a part in all of this.
[01:04:14.240 -> 01:04:15.880] Yeah, yeah, yeah, it takes a risk.
[01:04:15.880 -> 01:04:16.720] You gotta go and do it.
[01:04:16.720 -> 01:04:18.640] Just chuck yourself in the deep end.
[01:04:18.640 -> 01:04:19.920] Yeah, and who knows?
[01:04:19.920 -> 01:04:20.760] Who knows.
[01:04:20.760 -> 01:04:24.680] Next question is how important is legacy to you both?
[01:04:24.680 -> 01:04:27.960] I think it is important. It wasn't and now it is.
[01:04:27.960 -> 01:04:30.800] And I guess we're proud of what we've done
[01:04:30.800 -> 01:04:33.960] and we've seen so many people,
[01:04:33.960 -> 01:04:36.280] like I mentioned earlier, come and go,
[01:04:36.280 -> 01:04:37.120] which is really sad.
[01:04:37.120 -> 01:04:38.680] Lots of our friends, lots of our peers
[01:04:38.680 -> 01:04:40.760] of who we thought were going to become huge
[01:04:40.760 -> 01:04:42.600] and sort of go on to have careers
[01:04:42.600 -> 01:04:44.120] have kind of suddenly disappeared
[01:04:44.120 -> 01:04:48.400] and for whatever reason maybe intentionally but it's
[01:04:48.400 -> 01:04:54.600] tough to kind of keep things going and I guess things do end someday and I would
[01:04:54.600 -> 01:04:59.320] I would be probably most proud of getting to the end of this journey and
[01:04:59.320 -> 01:05:03.920] ending on a high not one of these spectacular bands that fall out with a
[01:05:03.920 -> 01:05:10.440] label or fall out with each other or kind of things get a bit neggy at the end and I would love to the
[01:05:10.440 -> 01:05:14.640] day we decide okay we're not gonna do this anymore for it to end on a real
[01:05:14.640 -> 01:05:17.960] high and then at that moment to you know maybe open that bottle of champagne and
[01:05:17.960 -> 01:05:23.320] go hasn't been such a bad journey after all. I think I'm already kind of
[01:05:23.320 -> 01:05:25.000] proud of where we're at,
[01:05:25.600 -> 01:05:28.640] and I've only realized it in the last few months.
[01:05:28.640 -> 01:05:30.920] Because it's dawning on me that it's 20 years next year.
[01:05:30.920 -> 01:05:33.520] And it's like, wow, we actually have done quite a bit.
[01:05:33.520 -> 01:05:35.120] And to the extent that I do feel,
[01:05:36.680 -> 01:05:38.920] after the pandemic, the clubs opened,
[01:05:38.920 -> 01:05:41.040] we were allowed to DJ again.
[01:05:41.040 -> 01:05:43.320] The amount of shows that we had was very humbling.
[01:05:43.320 -> 01:05:44.240] Like, it was so many.
[01:05:44.240 -> 01:05:49.360] And it was like, wow, people really do want to see us and you know we still have a great fan
[01:05:49.360 -> 01:05:55.000] base and that was without any new music so you know I'm excited for obviously
[01:05:55.000 -> 01:05:59.960] legacy of great albums still to come and the beauty about what we do I think is
[01:05:59.960 -> 01:06:08.280] that when we do decide to no longer perform or be the band or whatever,
[01:06:08.280 -> 01:06:12.160] there's still so many parts of the music industry in the career that we can work in,
[01:06:12.160 -> 01:06:14.360] producing for other people and constantly making music.
[01:06:14.360 -> 01:06:16.580] I don't think there'll be actually a day,
[01:06:16.580 -> 01:06:17.880] popping that champagne or not,
[01:06:17.880 -> 01:06:19.960] where Will and I won't be making music.
[01:06:19.960 -> 01:06:22.200] I think it's intrinsic to us, it's in us.
[01:06:22.200 -> 01:06:25.000] It's a release, it's an outlet that you need. I think as long as that intrinsic to us, it's in us. It's a release, you know, it's an outlet that you need.
[01:06:25.000 -> 01:06:28.000] And I think, you know, as long as that's inside us,
[01:06:28.000 -> 01:06:30.000] we'll always be creating.
[01:06:30.000 -> 01:06:33.000] If you could go back to one moment in your life,
[01:06:33.000 -> 01:06:34.000] what would it be and why?
[01:06:34.000 -> 01:06:39.000] There's been a few moments that are all kind of similar
[01:06:39.000 -> 01:06:42.000] in the sense that the phone has rung.
[01:06:42.000 -> 01:06:44.000] This is, again, us professionally starting out
[01:06:44.000 -> 01:06:49.200] and, you know, desperate to try and prove to ourselves that this could even work and
[01:06:49.200 -> 01:06:53.680] the few moments where the phone has rung and someone on the end of the line has
[01:06:53.680 -> 01:06:58.000] said something to us that has been so exciting you know basically had to pick
[01:06:58.000 -> 01:07:06.340] up the phone and say yes and had that unbelievable, out of world experience
[01:07:10.500 -> 01:07:11.600] of like, the most exciting thing has just happened.
[01:07:14.560 -> 01:07:18.720] And whether that was a record label saying, guys, I'm so and so and I want to sign you to a big deal.
[01:07:21.200 -> 01:07:23.440] A big artist we worshiped, looked up to,
[01:07:23.440 -> 01:07:29.360] would call us and say, I want to work with you guys. Those moments when you're starting out are unlike any
[01:07:29.360 -> 01:07:33.120] other moment you know even more exciting than when we headlined Glastonbury
[01:07:33.120 -> 01:07:38.080] to 65,000 people which is out-of-body experience but those moments when you
[01:07:38.080 -> 01:07:42.720] got an email or an aim an AOL instant message or as I said a text message
[01:07:42.720 -> 01:07:46.160] when we were 23 years old, a message from someone saying,
[01:07:46.440 -> 01:07:48.000] yo, I've just heard this thing.
[01:07:48.320 -> 01:07:49.040] I want to meet up.
[01:07:49.820 -> 01:07:54.380] And you know, we would be on the floor with excitement and energy.
[01:07:54.380 -> 01:07:59.120] And like that feeling is, I don't think we'll ever feel that level again.
[01:07:59.180 -> 01:08:00.180] It was very personal as well.
[01:08:00.180 -> 01:08:04.140] Cause those moments were just happening with us, you know, Will and I, when
[01:08:04.140 -> 01:08:07.360] there was one occasion, a phone call for three in the morning,
[01:08:07.360 -> 01:08:08.280] like, what the fuck?
[01:08:08.280 -> 01:08:10.040] You know, like, yeah.
[01:08:10.040 -> 01:08:12.840] It's almost saying, I'm going to do this with you guys,
[01:08:12.840 -> 01:08:13.920] I'm going to make this work.
[01:08:13.920 -> 01:08:16.000] Obviously the rush of playing to 8,000 people,
[01:08:16.000 -> 01:08:17.360] whatever, is like, wow.
[01:08:17.360 -> 01:08:19.000] But this is very different, very personal,
[01:08:19.000 -> 01:08:22.280] very like, understated moments
[01:08:22.280 -> 01:08:24.920] of the fact that we're on the phone, definitely.
[01:08:24.920 -> 01:08:27.680] And the final question for people listening to this
[01:08:27.680 -> 01:08:29.160] is kind of your last message really
[01:08:29.160 -> 01:08:31.120] and it is your one golden rule
[01:08:31.120 -> 01:08:32.600] for living a high performance life.
[01:08:32.600 -> 01:08:34.760] What is the one final thing you'd like to say
[01:08:34.760 -> 01:08:37.360] to the listeners and the viewers from this conversation?
[01:08:37.360 -> 01:08:39.920] For me, it's learning the art of collaboration
[01:08:39.920 -> 01:08:42.040] and whether that's collaborating
[01:08:42.040 -> 01:08:44.440] with the million artists we've worked with
[01:08:44.440 -> 01:08:46.120] through just the physical nature
[01:08:46.120 -> 01:08:47.880] of making songs with other people,
[01:08:47.880 -> 01:08:50.080] whether it's collaborating with all the people
[01:08:50.080 -> 01:08:52.240] we run our business with,
[01:08:52.240 -> 01:08:54.640] or whether it's collaborating with each other.
[01:08:54.640 -> 01:08:58.000] And it's a really difficult thing to do well.
[01:08:58.000 -> 01:09:00.760] I think probably it's an art form in itself,
[01:09:00.760 -> 01:09:03.560] but if you do it well, I think it's probably
[01:09:03.560 -> 01:09:06.320] the most powerful thing you can do.
[01:09:06.320 -> 01:09:09.580] And I would like to think our career is a testament to that.
[01:09:09.580 -> 01:09:10.420] Yeah.
[01:09:10.420 -> 01:09:14.580] And honesty and dedication, they will get you very, very far.
[01:09:14.580 -> 01:09:18.760] You can always work more when you're younger especially.
[01:09:20.340 -> 01:09:21.760] You don't realize it at the time
[01:09:21.760 -> 01:09:23.260] because you're just in your life.
[01:09:23.260 -> 01:09:26.400] But as you get older and you get responsibilities and families and pets
[01:09:26.400 -> 01:09:29.700] and kids and everything, and you have less time.
[01:09:29.700 -> 01:09:32.800] So when you have that passion, that fire in your belly,
[01:09:32.800 -> 01:09:37.800] that not like those like bleakers and nothing else you can see past,
[01:09:37.800 -> 01:09:41.600] but doing this, the blinkers, sorry, just got to run with it.
[01:09:41.600 -> 01:09:45.400] And we sacrificed everything to do it at the time.
[01:09:45.400 -> 01:09:49.960] We weren't going out to nightclubs, bars,
[01:09:49.960 -> 01:09:52.600] linking up with our girlfriends, nothing, nothing.
[01:09:52.600 -> 01:09:55.160] We were in the studio 23 hours a day.
[01:09:55.160 -> 01:09:57.000] And it was all actually sacrifice
[01:09:57.000 -> 01:09:59.800] for the one day we'd be able to do what we love.
[01:09:59.800 -> 01:10:02.280] And that determination, I think, is very important.
[01:10:02.280 -> 01:10:10.880] ♪♪ Damien. Jake, I enjoyed that. I loved it. There's an old story about a guy who
[01:10:10.880 -> 01:10:16.180] invaded Mexico back in the 16th century and his troops were complaining and they
[01:10:16.180 -> 01:10:19.480] were nervous and they were worried about what they were going to face and he sent
[01:10:19.480 -> 01:10:24.720] one of his team back to burn all the boats on the on the beach so the only
[01:10:24.720 -> 01:10:26.160] way they could ever get home
[01:10:26.160 -> 01:10:28.800] was by fighting their way through the difficulties.
[01:10:28.800 -> 01:10:31.680] And that's what the metaphor came to my mind
[01:10:31.680 -> 01:10:33.760] when I was listening to both Will and Saul
[01:10:33.760 -> 01:10:36.000] talking about that, that they burnt their boats,
[01:10:36.000 -> 01:10:38.680] they went all in to go after success.
[01:10:38.680 -> 01:10:41.000] As they said, they knew they were gonna be successful.
[01:10:41.000 -> 01:10:42.960] It was just how they were gonna get there.
[01:10:42.960 -> 01:10:44.600] And that line they said numerous times,
[01:10:44.600 -> 01:10:46.440] we knew we were gonna be successful. I think it's really were going to get there. And that line they said numerous times, we knew we were going to be successful. I think
[01:10:46.440 -> 01:10:50.160] it's really important we just pick out that a bit because what they're not saying is we
[01:10:50.160 -> 01:10:54.740] were arrogant and we believed it was just going to happen for us. They spoke about it
[01:10:54.740 -> 01:10:59.420] almost as like a superpower so that the fact they knew they were going to be successful
[01:10:59.420 -> 01:11:04.240] allowed them to quit uni. It allowed them to stay in Manchester. It allowed them to
[01:11:04.240 -> 01:11:05.460] put themselves in situations
[01:11:05.460 -> 01:11:06.940] that most people wouldn't be in,
[01:11:06.940 -> 01:11:10.280] but most importantly of all, it allowed them to work hard.
[01:11:10.280 -> 01:11:12.120] Because I think that in the back of their minds,
[01:11:12.120 -> 01:11:14.360] they're going, man, you're working hard,
[01:11:14.360 -> 01:11:16.320] man, you're sacrificing, man, you're never going out
[01:11:16.320 -> 01:11:18.160] and having fun, but then that voice goes,
[01:11:18.160 -> 01:11:20.520] yeah, but you're gonna make it as a music artist,
[01:11:20.520 -> 01:11:22.000] so this is fine.
[01:11:22.000 -> 01:11:25.200] And it was a really positive, we knew it was going to happen.
[01:11:25.200 -> 01:11:28.560] Yeah, I think it's that last bit that you've just nailed there, Jake, around
[01:11:28.560 -> 01:11:32.720] they were working hard. They weren't just dreaming about making it big and hoping that
[01:11:32.720 -> 01:11:37.600] somebody would spot them or somebody would hear them playing music in the bedroom. They were
[01:11:37.600 -> 01:11:41.440] working hard at getting better at the craft. And then the story of going out and meeting the guys
[01:11:41.440 -> 01:11:45.840] in the record shops, understanding that they had to create a brand,
[01:11:45.880 -> 01:11:50.360] they had to create a buzz around what they were doing is the
[01:11:50.360 -> 01:11:54.360] important bit that having a dream without doing the hard work is all,
[01:11:54.360 -> 01:11:56.120] but it's only ever just going to be a dream.
[01:11:56.360 -> 01:11:58.160] And I think there are quite a few platforms, you know,
[01:11:58.240 -> 01:12:02.920] and some podcasts included that are peddling this dangerous message
[01:12:02.920 -> 01:12:07.260] of whatever walk of life you're in, just go and make it happen, just go and do it.
[01:12:07.260 -> 01:12:10.080] And I think that you could mistake them saying
[01:12:10.080 -> 01:12:12.680] we knew it was gonna happen for that same level
[01:12:12.680 -> 01:12:15.560] of ignorance or arrogance, but actually,
[01:12:15.560 -> 01:12:17.960] it's not at all what they're not saying,
[01:12:17.960 -> 01:12:19.220] it's just gonna happen for them,
[01:12:19.220 -> 01:12:21.300] it's gonna just happen for everyone.
[01:12:21.300 -> 01:12:23.820] They are absolutely laying it bare to us
[01:12:23.820 -> 01:12:25.280] that they worked and work and are still
[01:12:25.280 -> 01:12:30.320] working even today. And I think that, you know, we've said on so many occasions, this
[01:12:30.320 -> 01:12:35.080] podcast sort of lifts the covers. So you really see the truth behind someone's career. And
[01:12:35.080 -> 01:12:39.600] you look at chasing the status, you hear the music, you look at the big events. Now, you
[01:12:39.600 -> 01:12:40.840] know, the work that went into them.
[01:12:40.840 -> 01:12:46.580] Yeah. There's a brilliant book by a guy called Steven Presley, I think called, uh, the war of art.
[01:12:46.580 -> 01:12:49.800] And it's about, you always show up.
[01:12:49.800 -> 01:12:51.640] You don't wait for inspiration to descend.
[01:12:51.640 -> 01:12:57.360] You go in and you do the work and inspiration follows that you never miss, uh, an appointment
[01:12:57.360 -> 01:13:02.520] time you turn up and you apply to everybody that's in the studio you're working with.
[01:13:02.520 -> 01:13:06.840] And that's what Will and Saul were telling us there, that it was about the hard work.
[01:13:06.840 -> 01:13:08.560] They never got high on their own supply.
[01:13:08.560 -> 01:13:11.960] They'd do a big show, they'd be successful,
[01:13:11.960 -> 01:13:13.200] and they were going away and planning,
[01:13:13.200 -> 01:13:14.440] how do we do that better?
[01:13:14.440 -> 01:13:16.080] They were doing that analysis.
[01:13:16.080 -> 01:13:17.760] And for those people that are listening to us talk now,
[01:13:17.760 -> 01:13:20.000] thinking, well, how does this apply to my life?
[01:13:20.000 -> 01:13:23.480] I would say that the hard work allows you to fail,
[01:13:23.480 -> 01:13:25.120] and it allows you to not be successful
[01:13:25.120 -> 01:13:28.560] because if they release their most recent album
[01:13:28.560 -> 01:13:30.160] and it doesn't sell or they go on tour
[01:13:30.160 -> 01:13:31.780] and people don't buy tickets,
[01:13:31.780 -> 01:13:33.320] they can still say, well, you know what?
[01:13:33.320 -> 01:13:34.780] We gave it 100%.
[01:13:34.780 -> 01:13:36.280] We were laser focused.
[01:13:36.280 -> 01:13:38.800] We were obsessed about it and it wasn't to be.
[01:13:38.800 -> 01:13:40.640] It's a hell of a lot better than thinking,
[01:13:40.640 -> 01:13:41.720] I wish I'd worked harder.
[01:13:41.720 -> 01:13:42.560] Yeah.
[01:13:42.560 -> 01:13:44.320] There's a great saying that they use
[01:13:44.320 -> 01:13:45.920] in the New Zealand rugby team
[01:13:45.920 -> 01:13:48.480] that the worst thing you can ever be is a one-cap wonder
[01:13:48.480 -> 01:13:50.360] because you've demonstrated you've got the talent
[01:13:50.360 -> 01:13:52.160] but you didn't have the perseverance
[01:13:52.160 -> 01:13:54.240] and the characteristics to stay there.
[01:13:54.240 -> 01:13:57.280] And I think the fact that these guys are on their sixth album
[01:13:57.280 -> 01:13:59.040] they're hugely successful.
[01:13:59.040 -> 01:14:01.840] It's not just the talent, it's the hard work
[01:14:01.840 -> 01:14:04.920] and all those characteristics they've shared with us
[01:14:04.920 -> 01:14:07.460] that defines high performance
[01:14:09.680 -> 01:14:10.480] Right damien
[01:14:10.480 -> 01:14:16.000] It's time for our favorite part of any high performance episode time to speak to the people that are listening and we've got a really
[01:14:16.080 -> 01:14:18.080] Lovely message this week on by the way
[01:14:18.240 -> 01:14:23.060] If you want to reach out to us then head to high performance or to damien or myself on instagram
[01:14:23.520 -> 01:14:25.360] Ping us a message. Let us know
[01:14:26.240 -> 01:14:28.300] Why you love high performance what it is
[01:14:28.300 -> 01:14:33.960] It's done for you and what you'd like to share on the podcast because that's exactly what our next guest did
[01:14:34.240 -> 01:14:37.920] Who sent us a message saying I just want to say how much I love listening to the podcast
[01:14:37.920 -> 01:14:41.080] I was late to the party and only really started listening a few months ago
[01:14:41.080 -> 01:14:48.640] Which means I still have loads to catch up on which we always think is a good thing. Damien and I love that. This person says I love the variety. Some of my
[01:14:48.640 -> 01:14:53.200] favourites have been Joe Malone, Kelly Holmes, Joe Wicks, Kevin Sinfield and probably my absolute
[01:14:53.200 -> 01:14:59.920] favourite Lee Childs. I'm about to retire in June after 25 years, wow, of primary teaching
[01:14:59.920 -> 01:15:03.920] and I love the way that Lee acknowledged the challenges and important roles that teachers play.
[01:15:03.920 -> 01:15:11.920] I've been inspired by many of your guests and listening to your podcast has given me the final push I needed to realise a long term ambition.
[01:15:11.920 -> 01:15:16.880] Well, I think it's time to find out what the ambition is and meet the listener joining us today.
[01:15:16.880 -> 01:15:19.040] Hello, Chris. Hi there.
[01:15:19.040 -> 01:15:21.040] Hi. How are you?
[01:15:21.040 -> 01:15:24.560] I'm good, thanks. Great. From sunny Edinburgh.
[01:15:24.560 -> 01:15:25.000] So tell us then, Chris, how has listening to the podcast changed the way that you think? How are you? I'm good, thanks. I'm great, from sunny Edinburgh.
[01:15:25.000 -> 01:15:30.000] So tell us then, Chris, how has listening to the podcast changed the way that you think?
[01:15:30.000 -> 01:15:34.000] Because what we love to say to people is that we're all constantly evolving and changing
[01:15:34.000 -> 01:15:35.000] humans, right?
[01:15:35.000 -> 01:15:39.400] So you could easily go, well, I've been a teacher for 25 years, I've lived a wonderful
[01:15:39.400 -> 01:15:41.560] life, what more can I learn?
[01:15:41.560 -> 01:15:46.560] So I love the fact that you still came to the podcast and grew and developed and learned
[01:15:46.560 -> 01:15:47.760] lots of new ways of thinking.
[01:15:47.760 -> 01:15:49.440] What was it for you that grabbed you?
[01:15:49.440 -> 01:15:52.200] Yeah, I think, well, kind of what started it off
[01:15:52.200 -> 01:15:53.640] was during lockdown.
[01:15:53.640 -> 01:15:56.080] So I've read all my life.
[01:15:56.080 -> 01:15:56.920] I love reading.
[01:15:56.920 -> 01:15:59.160] It's like a really big thing for me.
[01:15:59.160 -> 01:16:02.900] And I've written stuff for about 10 years.
[01:16:03.920 -> 01:16:05.920] And then during lockdown, two things happened. written stuff for about 10 years.
[01:16:03.760 -> 01:16:06.560] And then during lockdown two things
[01:16:05.920 -> 01:16:08.800] happened.
[01:16:06.560 -> 01:16:09.840] Well, first of all I was furloughed for
[01:16:08.800 -> 01:16:12.480] a few months
[01:16:09.840 -> 01:16:14.640] which I took really hard. And then the
[01:16:12.480 -> 01:16:17.360] second thing was that we got a kitten.
[01:16:14.640 -> 01:16:18.880] And I also do a lot of mindfulness too,
[01:16:17.360 -> 01:16:20.800] so I teach mindfulness to children,
[01:16:18.880 -> 01:16:23.360] I teach mindfulness to adults
[01:16:20.800 -> 01:16:25.200] and I've had some of my
[01:16:23.360 -> 01:16:26.560] meditations published on
[01:16:24.720 -> 01:16:28.400] Insight Timer, the app,
[01:16:26.560 -> 01:16:30.160] but during lockdown I started
[01:16:28.400 -> 01:16:31.520] writing some for children, mostly
[01:16:30.160 -> 01:16:32.080] because my colleagues were saying, you
[01:16:31.520 -> 01:16:34.160] know, we're
[01:16:32.080 -> 01:16:35.280] online with, you know, some of the, with
[01:16:34.160 -> 01:16:38.080] some of the children
[01:16:35.280 -> 01:16:40.160] because I'm not a class teacher,
[01:16:38.080 -> 01:16:42.480] I'm a support for learning teacher, so
[01:16:40.160 -> 01:16:43.600] I teach children with learning
[01:16:42.480 -> 01:16:45.520] differences.
[01:16:43.600 -> 01:16:47.400] So that's kind of where the children's writing started,
[01:16:47.400 -> 01:16:48.680] I guess.
[01:16:48.680 -> 01:16:51.840] We got the new kitten and we were just watching her
[01:16:51.840 -> 01:16:54.540] do stuff or, you know, scared to do stuff.
[01:16:54.540 -> 01:16:57.120] So the first time we put her out in the garden,
[01:16:57.120 -> 01:16:58.480] she wouldn't go, you know?
[01:16:59.800 -> 01:17:02.640] So it kind of thought, maybe I could do some mindfulness,
[01:17:02.640 -> 01:17:04.680] not particularly for her,
[01:17:04.680 -> 01:17:05.280] but it just gave me the idea that maybe, you know, I know that children are scared of things So it kind of thought maybe I could do some mindfulness, not particularly for her, but
[01:17:05.280 -> 01:17:09.320] it just gave me the idea that maybe, you know, I know that children are scared of things
[01:17:09.320 -> 01:17:13.080] and you know, they struggle to do certain things.
[01:17:13.080 -> 01:17:15.320] And so I thought, why not make it into a story?
[01:17:15.320 -> 01:17:20.260] And I was originally just going to put it up on Insight Timer as a story.
[01:17:20.260 -> 01:17:23.020] And then it kind of became a little bit more than that.
[01:17:23.020 -> 01:17:26.280] So would you tell us where the high performance podcast came into that then,
[01:17:26.280 -> 01:17:27.840] Chris, and how that helped you?
[01:17:28.200 -> 01:17:31.640] So, well, the first one I actually, the first one I actually listened to,
[01:17:31.640 -> 01:17:34.640] because one of my colleagues kept saying, you have to listen, you have to listen.
[01:17:34.920 -> 01:17:40.880] And I listened to Kelly Holmes and she was like a real inspiration.
[01:17:40.880 -> 01:17:46.720] And, you know, I just, I really liked the 20% 80% that she talked about and I just
[01:17:46.720 -> 01:17:52.600] thought you know these are ordinary people doing extraordinary things so that it kind
[01:17:52.600 -> 01:17:57.280] of inspired me to keep going I mean I had written it but I'd been knocked back by quite
[01:17:57.280 -> 01:18:02.960] a few publishers and then I saw an advert for self-publishing and I just thought I'm
[01:18:02.960 -> 01:18:05.360] going to go for it and it's kind of my big
[01:18:05.360 -> 01:18:10.720] birthday present to myself if you like. Now Chris I do not want to offend you but I would love to
[01:18:10.720 -> 01:18:15.760] ask how old you are with you set to retire in a few weeks time. I'm 59 just now so I'm not at the
[01:18:15.760 -> 01:18:21.040] big six oh yet. Now one of the things we often say to people is an old stoic phrase which is when's
[01:18:21.040 -> 01:18:25.080] the best time to plant a tree 20 years ago? When's the second best time?
[01:18:25.080 -> 01:18:25.920] Right now.
[01:18:25.920 -> 01:18:27.600] And I think we live in a world where too many people,
[01:18:27.600 -> 01:18:30.960] we get messages, Chris, from people in their 30s saying,
[01:18:30.960 -> 01:18:32.520] I've missed the boat, I've missed the chance,
[01:18:32.520 -> 01:18:33.680] it's too late for me.
[01:18:33.680 -> 01:18:35.880] I would love you just to share a message
[01:18:35.880 -> 01:18:37.800] with our high performance community
[01:18:37.800 -> 01:18:40.080] as someone who is approaching a big birthday,
[01:18:41.120 -> 01:18:44.720] just to sort of share with us the thought from someone
[01:18:44.720 -> 01:18:47.320] with your life experience that it's never over,
[01:18:47.320 -> 01:18:49.580] the journey continues all the time.
[01:18:49.580 -> 01:18:51.920] Yeah, just go for it, be brave.
[01:18:51.920 -> 01:18:56.280] I wish I'd done more when I was younger,
[01:18:56.280 -> 01:18:57.560] I wish I'd had more courage,
[01:18:57.560 -> 01:19:00.320] but I kind of trod a sort of more traditional path.
[01:19:00.320 -> 01:19:02.960] You know, I didn't push myself out of my comfort zone
[01:19:02.960 -> 01:19:07.600] too much and I think as you get older, you kind of think, well, it's now or never, you know,
[01:19:07.600 -> 01:19:09.400] there's, you never know, do you?
[01:19:09.400 -> 01:19:15.040] That reminds me of a great phrase, Chris, that a guy called Dr. Daniel Amen used to
[01:19:15.040 -> 01:19:19.440] say that at 18, we spend our time worrying what people think about us.
[01:19:19.440 -> 01:19:22.400] We get to 40 and we go, I don't care what people think about us.
[01:19:22.400 -> 01:19:27.160] And then when we get to 60, he says, we then realize that nobody was actually thinking about us
[01:19:27.160 -> 01:19:28.600] after all, anyway.
[01:19:28.600 -> 01:19:29.440] I would agree.
[01:19:29.440 -> 01:19:30.260] I think it's true.
[01:19:30.260 -> 01:19:31.400] And I like his stuff.
[01:19:31.400 -> 01:19:34.000] I've read some of his books on ADHD and-
[01:19:34.000 -> 01:19:34.820] Brilliant.
[01:19:34.820 -> 01:19:36.240] Look, Chris, we wish you all the very best
[01:19:36.240 -> 01:19:37.060] with the picture book.
[01:19:37.060 -> 01:19:38.960] We wish you the very best with retirement.
[01:19:38.960 -> 01:19:41.240] Thank you for all the hundreds of young lives
[01:19:41.240 -> 01:19:42.600] that you would have touched over the years
[01:19:42.600 -> 01:19:44.160] as a primary school teacher
[01:19:44.160 -> 01:19:45.040] and the changes that you made to their lives. And thank you would have touched over the years as a as a primary school teacher and the changes that you made
[01:19:45.040 -> 01:19:46.680] to their lives and
[01:19:46.680 -> 01:19:52.520] Thank you so much for realizing the value that exists in the high performance podcast and coming on and sharing it with us
[01:19:52.720 -> 01:19:55.860] Thanks for having me. What a nice conversation. That was Damien
[01:19:55.860 -> 01:19:56.080] You know
[01:19:56.080 -> 01:19:58.440] It reminds me of if you had the George Eliot quote
[01:19:58.720 -> 01:20:05.240] And I'll probably get it wrong as I usually do and it's, you're never too old to become what you might have been.
[01:20:05.240 -> 01:20:07.240] Oh, I love that. That's a cracker.
[01:20:07.240 -> 01:20:12.080] And that's like, let's stop living in this world where we kind of either decide it's
[01:20:12.080 -> 01:20:16.080] too early or too late, or it's not the right time in some way, because this is a conversation
[01:20:16.080 -> 01:20:20.620] about delaying our happiness. And it almost feels like, you know, Chris has realized that
[01:20:20.620 -> 01:20:23.640] you're never going to get this time again and to chase those dreams. And I love that.
[01:20:23.640 -> 01:20:28.880] Yeah, I think it reminded me a little bit'n ei gael gyda Mary Portas,
[01:20:28.880 -> 01:20:32.640] lle roedd e'n dweud nad oes e'n hwyr i fod yn ddynolwr. Mae gennych gysylltiad
[01:20:32.640 -> 01:20:40.080] gyda'r byd byd yn eich dŵr. Ac rwy'n credu, i Chris, i ddeall bod unrhyw un yn gallu bod
[01:20:40.080 -> 01:21:07.940] yn gynhyrchwr, os oes gennych y ffasiwn, gallwch fynd i'r ffyrdd sefyd ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r in the day when you know you got into TV because there was less challenges and it's harder now than it's ever been and I do not I say to them genuinely there's
[01:21:07.940 -> 01:21:11.300] never been more opportunity for anyone to do anything they want to do and the
[01:21:11.300 -> 01:21:15.120] answer is our mobile phones the answer is Instagram the answer is YouTube the
[01:21:15.120 -> 01:21:18.860] answer is tick-tock you know let's say you're super passionate about curtains
[01:21:18.860 -> 01:21:22.680] you can just create content you can create a YouTube channel you can create
[01:21:22.680 -> 01:21:28.260] an Instagram account you can create a YouTube channel, you can create an Instagram account, you can create a podcast, you know, this whole thing that we're on now, this high
[01:21:28.260 -> 01:21:32.440] performance podcast, it's just born out of passion and a love for something and
[01:21:32.440 -> 01:21:35.280] anyone can do that about anything in their lives and it can be a side hustle
[01:21:35.280 -> 01:21:39.920] or it can be your whole life but what it can't be is ignored and put in a box and
[01:21:39.920 -> 01:21:43.320] pushed away because I guarantee you when that final breath leaves your body
[01:21:43.320 -> 01:21:46.360] you'll think why didn't I just do that?
[01:21:46.360 -> 01:21:47.180] Absolutely.
[01:21:47.180 -> 01:21:50.320] And I think Chris, like all our guests in many ways,
[01:21:50.320 -> 01:21:52.560] echoing the same thing of just give it a go.
[01:21:52.560 -> 01:21:56.320] You smarter for the experience and you're wiser for,
[01:21:56.320 -> 01:21:57.840] for it as well.
[01:21:57.840 -> 01:21:59.960] And I love the fact that she appeared on the same episode as
[01:21:59.960 -> 01:22:02.280] chasing status and there might be people thinking,
[01:22:02.280 -> 01:22:05.840] how does Chris age 59 from Edinburgh link that closely to chasing status, but go back to the conversationwl, sut mae Chris, o 59, o Edinburgh, yn ymwneud â'r ymddiriedol
[01:22:05.840 -> 01:22:09.120] o'r ymddygiadau a'r ymddygiadau, ond yn ôl i'r sgwrs rydyn ni wedi'i gael gyda nhw, Damien. Byddai'n
[01:22:09.120 -> 01:22:13.760] haws i ddim bod yn Manchester, haws i fynd i'r home, haws i ddod â'r ymddygiad, ond
[01:22:13.760 -> 01:22:18.000] maen nhw wedi decidio i roi ffyrdd a'r cyfnod ar y cyfnod o'r hyn maen nhw wedi'i wneud, ac mae hynny wedi'u
[01:22:18.000 -> 01:22:22.240] rhoi i'r gyrfa anhygoel. Ie, a gwybod beth ydych chi? Rwy'n credu y bydd Will a Saul yn edrych ar y
[01:22:22.240 -> 01:22:26.240] sgwrs rydyn ni wedi'i gael gyda Chris, roeddent yn cael llawer o gysylltiad â nhw.
[01:22:26.240 -> 01:22:28.720] Nid oeddent, ar gyfer gwrthwynebu'r ffyrdd,
[01:22:28.720 -> 01:22:31.040] wedi bod yn ddiddorol i'w gwaith,
[01:22:31.040 -> 01:22:34.560] ond rwy'n credu oeddent yn rhannu'r rhai eraill sydd wedi cael yr oedran hwnnw hefyd.
[01:22:34.560 -> 01:22:35.640] Ac mae wedi bod yn ddau ddau ddau o wythnosau
[01:22:35.640 -> 01:22:45.000] ers i ni gynnal y sgwrs hwnnw gyda Jason Stather a Will and Soul. Ac mewn gwirionedd, roeddent yn ffyrdd o ffyrdd o ffyrdd o ffyrdd o ffyrddw i'n meddwl yn ôl i beth oedd y teimlad hyderus oedd yn y staff.
[01:22:45.000 -> 01:22:47.000] Ie, roeddwn i'n hoffi'r peth, roeddwn i'n meddwl oedd yn ddiddorol,
[01:22:47.000 -> 01:22:49.000] roeddwn i'n meddwl oedd oedd yn ddigon yn ymdrechol,
[01:22:49.000 -> 01:22:51.000] ond, mewn nifer o ffyrdd, mae hwn yn ddiddorol,
[01:22:51.000 -> 01:22:54.000] ac nid yw'n ei ymddangos, ond roeddent yn ymddangos
[01:22:54.000 -> 01:22:56.000] yna yn y geic hefyd, oeddent, oeddent ddim yn ceisio
[01:22:56.000 -> 01:22:58.000] fod yn ddiddorol, roeddent ddim yn ceisio fod yn ymddangos
[01:22:58.000 -> 01:23:00.000] yn ymddangos, roeddent yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon
[01:23:00.000 -> 01:23:06.740] yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon yn ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in ddigon in digon Happy to embrace. This is who we are. We're passionate about music and making music join the club. Yeah, it's rule brother
[01:23:07.580 -> 01:23:11.780] listen mate, thanks ever so much for your time and if you're listening to Damian and I have this conversation and
[01:23:12.460 -> 01:23:16.820] You have got the time to subscribe or share or rate this podcast
[01:23:16.820 -> 01:23:19.820] It means we can reach even more people than we have done so far
[01:23:19.820 -> 01:23:23.540] So we would love you to do that. You can also watch the interviews as well as listen to them
[01:23:23.540 -> 01:23:26.260] So if you want to see Chase and Status
[01:23:26.260 -> 01:23:27.600] or any other guests that have joined us
[01:23:27.600 -> 01:23:28.860] on High Performance over the years,
[01:23:28.860 -> 01:23:30.100] then just head to YouTube,
[01:23:30.100 -> 01:23:31.800] type in the High Performance Podcast
[01:23:31.800 -> 01:23:34.020] or get all the details at our website,
[01:23:34.020 -> 01:23:37.420] thehighperformancepodcast.com.
[01:23:37.420 -> 01:23:38.920] Damo, thanks ever so much, mate.
[01:23:38.920 -> 01:23:39.940] Thanks, Jake, loved it.
[01:23:39.940 -> 01:23:41.140] Wonderful, and before we go,
[01:23:41.140 -> 01:23:43.160] just thank you so much for the amazing reaction
[01:23:43.160 -> 01:23:44.500] to the podcast with Greg Hoffman.
[01:23:44.500 -> 01:23:50.940] Yoddy said, this week's High Performance podcast with Greg is the most valuable piece of content I've consumed in years
[01:23:51.400 -> 01:23:52.880] Tanya says I've just listened
[01:23:52.880 -> 01:23:56.680] I'm replaying with my note but later as there's so much for me to take away from it
[01:23:56.880 -> 01:23:59.540] another great podcast with the former CMO of Nike
[01:23:59.840 -> 01:24:05.760] Talking about changing the structure of the marketing function to respond to the digital arena.
[01:24:05.760 -> 01:24:08.600] So thank you so much for all those amazing comments
[01:24:08.600 -> 01:24:09.960] and thoughts that you've had regarding
[01:24:09.960 -> 01:24:12.480] the High Performance Podcast over the last few days.
[01:24:12.480 -> 01:24:13.920] We don't take them for granted.
[01:24:13.920 -> 01:24:15.880] Thanks to Will and Sol, thanks to Chris,
[01:24:15.880 -> 01:24:18.200] of course, thanks to Damien and to Gemma
[01:24:18.200 -> 01:24:20.320] and to Eve and to Will and to Hannah
[01:24:20.320 -> 01:24:21.920] and to Finn from Rethink Audio,
[01:24:21.920 -> 01:24:23.640] but most of all, the big thanks
[01:24:23.640 -> 01:24:25.200] on the High Performance Podcast
[01:24:25.200 -> 01:24:27.640] goes to you at home for listening, for sharing,
[01:24:27.640 -> 01:24:30.300] for discussing, and for helping this platform to grow.
[01:24:30.300 -> 01:24:31.960] Just remember, there is no secret.
[01:24:31.960 -> 01:24:34.360] It is all there for you, so be your own biggest cheerleader
[01:24:34.360 -> 01:24:35.440] over the next few days,
[01:24:35.440 -> 01:24:38.320] and make world-class basics your calling card.
[01:24:38.320 -> 01:24:54.000] Thanks for watching!
[01:24:55.830 -> 01:24:57.890] you