E114 - Alex Sanderson: Leading by example (Gallagher Leadership Series)

Alex Sanderson is the Director of Rugby for Sale Sharks. Alex started his senior playing career at Sale in 1998 and went on to make 90 appearances for the club, with his leadership qualities earning him the club captaincy.

Alex isn’t a coach that just stands on the side-line, in his own words he “wants to be on the coalface to feel what the players are feeling, to understand what they’re going through”. He has a very hands-on management style wanting to get involved and lead from the front. This episode will explore how he drives his team forward, setting expectations and inspiring excellence.

We are delighted to work with Gallagher, Your Trusted Insurance Broker, to bring you this three part ‘Gallagher Leadership Series’ with leading Directors of Rugby, including Rob Baxter, Alex Sanderson and Steve Borthwick.

Check out Gallagher’s new three-part series #RivalsTogether, bringing you candid player-to-player conversations about what leadership in rugby means to some of the Gallagher Prem's brightest stars.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOvx4ui51lOCwX_JOU1U4VFvXStQ9aWO7 

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**Understanding the Players:**

- Understanding the players as individuals is crucial for effective leadership.
- It involves comprehending their motivations, fears, strengths, and weaknesses.
- This understanding helps create a personalized approach to coaching and guidance.

**Empathy and Communication:**

- Empathy is essential in understanding the players' perspectives and emotions.
- Open and honest communication fosters trust and rapport between the coach and players.
- Regular conversations, both formal and informal, create opportunities for dialogue and feedback.

**Creating a Cohesive Team:**

- Building a cohesive team involves fostering a sense of togetherness and shared purpose.
- Encouraging players to socialize outside of rugby helps them bond and develop strong relationships.
- These relationships contribute to a positive team culture and enhance performance on the field.

**Adaptability and Flexibility:**

- Leadership requires adaptability and flexibility to respond to changing circumstances.
- The coach must be willing to adjust strategies and approaches based on the team's needs and evolving dynamics.
- Remaining open to new ideas and perspectives promotes continuous improvement and innovation.

**Leading by Example:**

- Leaders must embody the values and behaviors they expect from their players.
- Setting a positive example through actions and attitudes inspires and motivates the team.
- Demonstrating commitment, resilience, and a strong work ethic fosters a culture of excellence.

**Delegation and Empowerment:**

- Effective leaders empower their players by delegating responsibilities and trusting them to make decisions.
- This approach fosters player ownership and accountability, promoting individual and team growth.
- It also allows the coach to focus on strategic aspects and overall team development.

**Continuous Improvement:**

- High-performance leadership involves a commitment to continuous improvement.
- Leaders must constantly seek opportunities to enhance their skills, knowledge, and leadership abilities.
- They must also encourage players to embrace a growth mindset and strive for excellence.

**Handling Conflict and Challenges:**

- Leaders must possess the ability to handle conflicts and challenges constructively.
- Addressing conflicts promptly and openly helps maintain a positive team environment.
- Leaders must also remain calm under pressure and make rational decisions in challenging situations.

**Building a Supportive Network:**

- Effective leaders recognize the importance of building a supportive network around them.
- This includes mentors, peers, and other trusted individuals who can provide guidance, advice, and encouragement.
- A strong support system helps leaders navigate the challenges of their role and maintain their well-being.

**Conclusion:**

Alex Sanderson's leadership approach emphasizes understanding the players, fostering empathy and communication, creating a cohesive team, and leading by example. He believes in empowering players, continuously improving, handling conflicts effectively, building a supportive network, and adapting to changing circumstances. These principles have contributed to his success as a coach and have helped Sale Sharks achieve remarkable results.

# Alex Sanderson: Creating a High-Performing Team Culture in Rugby

Alex Sanderson, Director of Rugby for Sale Sharks, emphasizes the importance of creating a psychologically safe environment for players to thrive. He believes in fostering open communication, encouraging self-management, and empowering leaders within the team.

## Key Points:


- **Psychological Safety:** Sanderson emphasizes the significance of psychological safety in team culture. He believes it allows players to be vulnerable, share their thoughts, and engage in honest conversations, leading to better decision-making and team performance.


- **Self-Managing Team:** Sanderson promotes the idea of a self-managing team, where players take ownership of their actions and responsibilities. He encourages players to have difficult conversations among themselves, addressing issues and finding solutions without the coach's direct intervention.


- **Cultural Architects:** Sanderson highlights the role of cultural architects within the team, often referred to as leaders in the dressing room. These players play a crucial role in upholding the team's values, setting standards, and driving the team forward.


- **Feedback and Improvement:** Sanderson values feedback from players, even if it challenges his own approach. He believes in open dialogue and using feedback to improve his coaching methods and the team's performance.


- **Learning from Other Sports:** Sanderson seeks knowledge and inspiration from outside rugby, exploring successful teams and practices in sports like Australian Rules Football and American Football. He believes in adapting and incorporating ideas from different contexts to enhance his own team's performance.


- **Sense of Belonging:** Sanderson emphasizes the importance of creating a sense of belonging for all players, regardless of their skill level or position in the team. He believes that when players feel valued and connected to the team, they are more likely to be motivated and engaged.


- **Vulnerability and Openness:** Sanderson stresses the value of vulnerability and openness among players and coaches. He encourages players to share their feelings, both positive and negative, to foster a culture of trust and understanding.


- **Adaptability and Resilience:** Sanderson believes that teams need to be adaptable and resilient to succeed in the face of challenges. He emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes, embracing change, and maintaining a positive mindset.


- **Shared Mental Model:** Sanderson highlights the significance of creating a shared mental model within the team. He believes that when players have a clear understanding of the team's goals, values, and strategies, they can make better decisions on the field and work together more effectively.

In conclusion, Alex Sanderson's approach to leadership and team culture emphasizes psychological safety, self-management, open communication, and a focus on creating a sense of belonging and shared purpose among players. He believes that by fostering a positive and supportive environment, teams can unlock their full potential and achieve lasting success.

# The Art of Leadership: Insights from Alex Sanderson, Director of Rugby for Sale Sharks

**Introduction**

Alex Sanderson, the Director of Rugby for Sale Sharks, shares his leadership philosophy and insights on driving team performance, setting expectations, and inspiring excellence.

**Key Points**

1. **Hands-On Leadership Style:**

- Alex Sanderson emphasizes the importance of being actively involved with the team, rather than just observing from the sidelines.
- He believes in leading from the front and getting his hands dirty to understand the players' experiences and challenges.

2. **Non-Negotiable Leadership Values:**

- Alex Sanderson highlights three non-negotiable values for effective leadership:
- Honesty: Building trust through open and honest communication.
- Hard work: Recognizing that achievement requires dedication and effort.
- Enjoyment: Fostering a culture of enjoyment and fun, beyond just winning.

3. **Importance of Relationships:**

- Alex Sanderson emphasizes the significance of building strong relationships with players, coaches, and staff.
- He believes that these relationships form the foundation for a successful team environment and long-term success.

4. **Psychological Safety and Empathy:**

- Alex Sanderson recognizes the importance of creating a psychologically safe environment where players feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and vulnerabilities.
- He emphasizes the power of empathy and understanding in fostering a supportive team culture.

5. **Balancing Structure and Flexibility:**

- Alex Sanderson acknowledges the need for structure and discipline in a rugby team.
- However, he also believes in allowing players the freedom to express themselves and make decisions on the field.

6. **Adaptability and Continuous Learning:**

- Alex Sanderson emphasizes the importance of adapting to changing circumstances and learning from mistakes.
- He believes that leaders should be open to new ideas and constantly seek opportunities for improvement.

7. **Legacy of Relationships:**

- Alex Sanderson hopes to leave a legacy of strong relationships with players and coaches.
- He believes that these relationships are more valuable than short-term success or trophies.

8. **Golden Rule for High-Performance Life:**

- Alex Sanderson stresses the importance of living by the values one preaches.
- He believes that leaders must embody the values they expect from their team and consistently demonstrate them in their actions.

**Conclusion**

Alex Sanderson's leadership approach emphasizes the importance of hands-on involvement, strong relationships, psychological safety, and continuous learning. His focus on creating a culture of honesty, hard work, and enjoyment has helped Sale Sharks achieve success and build a strong team spirit.

[00:00.000 -> 00:05.560] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, our gift to you every single week. This is
[00:05.560 -> 00:10.060] the podcast that turns the lived experiences of the planet's highest performers into your
[00:10.060 -> 00:15.000] life lessons. And this is the second episode of the High Performance Gallagher Leadership
[00:15.000 -> 00:19.320] Series. Gallagher, as I'm sure you know, are the title partners of Premiership Rugby, and
[00:19.320 -> 00:23.040] they approached us on High Performance a few weeks ago, saying they really want to reveal
[00:23.040 -> 00:28.100] the truth about leadership in rugby, because leadership can be lonely, leadership can
[00:28.100 -> 00:33.020] be unforgiving, at times leadership can even be unrewarding and this
[00:33.020 -> 00:36.800] conversation is for all of you leaders and I'm talking to parents, I'm talking
[00:36.800 -> 00:40.400] to pastors, I'm talking to teachers, I'm talking to team leaders, I'm talking to
[00:40.400 -> 00:45.940] entrepreneurs, I'm talking to everyone really. Cause in your own way, in your own world,
[00:45.940 -> 00:49.020] you are high performance, you are all leaders.
[00:49.020 -> 00:51.940] And today we welcome Alex Sanderson,
[00:51.940 -> 00:54.420] Director of Rugby at Sail Sharks.
[00:54.420 -> 00:56.620] He's here for you as part of today's
[00:56.620 -> 01:00.700] Gallagher Leadership Series with this kind of wisdom.
[01:00.700 -> 01:02.220] Enjoy.
[01:02.220 -> 01:05.000] On the field he's the most abrasive and aggressive,
[01:05.000 -> 01:09.000] the most competitive, angry ant that's ever crossed the white line.
[01:09.000 -> 01:13.000] So there was coaching sessions where I'd be running the session
[01:13.000 -> 01:17.000] and he wouldn't agree with it, to the point where he's shouting at me.
[01:17.000 -> 01:18.000] So I just sent him off.
[01:18.000 -> 01:20.000] I just said, look, I can't have this.
[01:20.000 -> 01:22.000] It's not about me and you. You've got to go.
[01:24.000 -> 01:28.600] The more rewarding and the more difficult nature
[01:28.600 -> 01:31.060] of high performance of the game
[01:31.060 -> 01:34.020] is the ever changing constant that is people.
[01:35.900 -> 01:38.080] It's not just about enjoying the triumphs, as I said,
[01:38.080 -> 01:40.920] it's about enjoying the struggle, enjoying the fight.
[01:40.920 -> 01:43.360] You've got to love both sides of the coin equally.
[01:47.800 -> 01:50.400] Okay, so let me level with you, right, we are kind of baffled
[01:50.680 -> 01:54.200] by the success of high performance, I suppose when many
[01:54.200 -> 01:56.940] millions of people a month are listening to your content, it's
[01:56.940 -> 02:00.200] kind of weird, if we weren't slightly blindsided by it. So
[02:00.200 -> 02:03.040] why is that? Well, I actually believe it's because what we're
[02:03.040 -> 02:05.680] not doing on these episodes is telling you what to think.
[02:06.080 -> 02:07.000] We aren't preaching to you.
[02:07.000 -> 02:08.400] We aren't saying there's only one way.
[02:09.160 -> 02:12.240] We aren't making you feel like you're unfairly underachieving.
[02:12.240 -> 02:17.000] Equally, we're not giving you realistic soundbite success tips, which I hear on other podcasts.
[02:17.520 -> 02:22.280] We are simply asking questions of those who've been successful across all walks of life.
[02:22.560 -> 02:25.800] So hopefully their answers provide you with
[02:25.800 -> 02:31.180] something genuinely life affirming, genuinely uplifting and genuinely educational based
[02:31.180 -> 02:34.700] on their experience. As always it's me, Jay Comfrey and Professor
[02:34.700 -> 02:39.700] Damien Hughes having this conversation and today we're joined by Alex Sanderson, a
[02:39.700 -> 02:44.060] stunning playing career included representing England but it was cruelly cut short before
[02:44.060 -> 02:48.400] he got involved in management. Now he is involved in management, now he is
[02:48.400 -> 02:53.480] the Sailsharks director of rugby, so it's time for his experiences to become your
[02:53.480 -> 02:59.280] life lessons. Today, Sailsharks director of rugby Alex Sanderson on the High
[02:59.280 -> 03:04.240] Performance Podcast. So before we get going with today's episode I just want to
[03:04.240 -> 03:06.280] say thank you so much to Gallagher. You know so many people approach us to be So before we get going with today's episode I just want to say
[03:04.320 -> 03:07.960] thank you so much to Gallagher. You know so
[03:06.280 -> 03:09.200] many people approach us to be
[03:07.960 -> 03:11.280] partners with the High Performance
[03:09.200 -> 03:13.280] Podcast. I'm afraid almost all of them
[03:11.280 -> 03:15.080] get told no but then sometimes someone
[03:13.280 -> 03:16.880] comes along with a really cool idea and
[03:15.080 -> 03:19.000] we run with it and it was Gallagher, your
[03:16.880 -> 03:20.800] trusted insurance broker, that came to
[03:19.000 -> 03:23.040] us with the idea for the Gallagher
[03:20.800 -> 03:25.280] Leadership Series. And Gallagher are a
[03:23.040 -> 03:25.440] really fascinating company. It plays to my
[03:25.440 -> 03:30.480] values because they've been voted one of the world's most ethical companies for the past 10
[03:30.480 -> 03:35.200] consecutive years. You probably know that they're a global insurance business, risk management and
[03:35.200 -> 03:41.600] consulting. They've been doing it since 1927. But I also love the fact that Gallagher recognise that
[03:41.600 -> 03:46.720] it can be tough at the top. So therefore, they are really keen to not just help leaders in rugby,
[03:46.720 -> 03:48.240] but to help all business leaders
[03:48.240 -> 03:51.020] and all leaders in life tackle those challenges
[03:51.020 -> 03:52.400] and tackle those pressures.
[03:52.400 -> 03:55.240] So whether it is in the house or the classroom
[03:55.240 -> 03:57.740] or the boardroom or the rugby pitch,
[03:57.740 -> 03:59.640] Gallagher understand that surrounding yourself
[03:59.640 -> 04:04.080] with a team of trusted advisors is critical for success.
[04:04.080 -> 04:05.760] They're a really cool business, they supported
[04:05.760 -> 04:10.360] us on the High Performance Tour, they're supporting us as well for these episodes, so if you want
[04:10.360 -> 04:21.900] to find out more, just go to ajg.com forward slash UK, ajg.com forward slash UK. Gallagher,
[04:21.900 -> 04:25.960] thank you so much for being partners with us for these very special episodes
[04:25.960 -> 04:27.960] of High Performance.
[04:27.960 -> 04:35.920] Well, Alex, first of all, thank you very much for joining us. We're going to start with
[04:35.920 -> 04:39.040] what is your definition of high performance?
[04:39.040 -> 04:43.200] Let's go in heavy, let's start in heavy. What is my definition of high performance? Form,
[04:43.200 -> 04:45.080] if you like, when you're truly at your best,
[04:45.080 -> 04:47.680] when you're in that flow state,
[04:47.680 -> 04:52.680] is an accumulation of a lot of things in your life.
[04:52.720 -> 04:54.160] And I say in your life,
[04:54.160 -> 04:56.760] because sport for me is a microcosm of life,
[04:56.760 -> 04:58.520] that you have to get aligned and get right.
[04:58.520 -> 05:00.880] So you're able to be free,
[05:00.880 -> 05:03.560] free on the field, in the moment.
[05:03.700 -> 05:06.700] you're able to be free, free on the field, in the moment.
[05:10.200 -> 05:13.660] So that revolves around understanding yourself in terms of your, all the mental aspects
[05:13.660 -> 05:17.700] that you need to get right, for you to perform,
[05:17.700 -> 05:22.600] to be free, it's your nutrition, it's your physical,
[05:22.600 -> 05:23.820] it's also kind of your wellbeing,
[05:23.820 -> 05:26.000] I guess that's coming to sport a lot more. It's getting all the things that you need to get yw'r gwybodaeth, yw'r ffysical, yw'r ddysgu, rwy'n credu bod hynny'n dod i'r sport.
[05:26.000 -> 05:30.000] Mae'n cael yr holl bethau y mae angen arnoch chi, fel person, yn iawn, yn realistig.
[05:30.000 -> 05:34.000] Os ydych chi'n ei wneud o ran eich bywyd, os ydych chi'n ei wneud, mae'n debyg i'r cymhwyster
[05:34.000 -> 05:36.000] yn mynd i'r cyflogau cyhoeddiol.
[05:36.000 -> 05:40.000] Felly, gallaf i gadael arno, yna, gyda cwestiwn pwysau arall, Alex, ac i ddod atoch.
[05:40.000 -> 05:44.000] Rwyf wedi darllen llawer am eich technigaeth cyflawni, sy'n ymwneud â
[05:44.000 -> 05:46.000] ddod i'r sens o ddiddori. I've read a lot about your coaching technique is very much around tapping into this sense of identity.
[05:46.000 -> 05:51.000] Who are we? Why do we do what we do? And how are we getting there? How would you answer that for you?
[05:51.000 -> 05:55.000] Well, only through my own experiences with other people, with the lads that I've coached,
[05:55.000 -> 06:02.000] I'd hope to think ever-changing, continuously growing, always searching, curious to improve.
[06:02.000 -> 06:07.000] And with that, you have to be adaptable and flexible, not to the
[06:07.000 -> 06:12.920] extent where you lose sight, realising the important things that are at the core of
[06:12.920 -> 06:17.000] you being able to perform, in my case coach well, like you have to keep all of
[06:17.000 -> 06:20.040] those things, but on the peripheries of that in terms of your process and your
[06:20.040 -> 06:26.000] purpose, that does attribute to identity. I feel you have to be open yw'r gwaith, mae hynny'n ymdrech i'r digwyddiad. Rwy'n teimlo y byddwch angen i chi fod yn agos ac yn ddefnyddiol
[06:26.000 -> 06:30.000] i newid mewn gwythnos, efallai ychydig dyddiau.
[06:30.000 -> 06:32.000] Felly beth yw eich gwaith, yna?
[06:32.000 -> 06:42.000] Wel, ar hyn o bryd, mae'n ymwneud â chreu amgylchedd lle gall y chwaraewyr groes a datblygu i bobl
[06:42.000 -> 06:47.000] y byddwn ni'n ymwneud â nhw'n fwyaf o fathau. Ac vicariously, you know, that's one hat.
[06:47.000 -> 06:48.440] That's the big tick.
[06:48.440 -> 06:50.800] And it's not just the players, it's the coaches as well.
[06:50.800 -> 06:54.160] Because we have to support and live our lives
[06:54.160 -> 06:57.360] by the same values that we preach to the players.
[06:57.360 -> 06:58.320] That's one hat.
[06:58.320 -> 07:01.480] And the other hat is to create a team
[07:01.480 -> 07:04.720] with a mentality towards consistent,
[07:04.720 -> 07:06.640] relentless performance.
[07:06.640 -> 07:09.440] And that's in the focus around the process, isn't it?
[07:09.440 -> 07:13.120] You know, that's laid on the initial statement.
[07:13.120 -> 07:15.240] And then doing that, Damian,
[07:15.240 -> 07:17.580] I think you get the best of both worlds,
[07:17.580 -> 07:21.520] but you get this team that's loving it,
[07:21.520 -> 07:23.720] a group of people who's loving it because they're growing
[07:23.720 -> 07:24.880] and they're feeling that together
[07:24.880 -> 07:25.760] and they're doing it together. And that's when team sport a group of people who's loving it because they're growing and they're feeling that together and they're doing it together.
[07:25.760 -> 07:29.760] And that's when team sport is really, really special.
[07:29.760 -> 07:33.800] But you also get an understanding of how you win
[07:33.800 -> 07:37.380] by almost taking it away from the outcome.
[07:37.380 -> 07:41.000] Now we're having this conversation, Alex,
[07:41.000 -> 07:43.460] about leadership, thanks to Gallagher.
[07:43.460 -> 07:45.240] And that's what I really want to talk about
[07:45.240 -> 07:46.880] is your leadership.
[07:46.880 -> 07:49.120] You know, you, through your own career as a rugby player,
[07:49.120 -> 07:51.160] you've identified what high performance is to you
[07:51.160 -> 07:53.480] and how and why you lead.
[07:53.480 -> 07:55.920] I really want to get into some specifics here
[07:55.920 -> 07:57.200] so that people that are listening to this
[07:57.200 -> 08:00.080] that aren't in the rugby world and our CEOs
[08:00.080 -> 08:03.280] and our colleagues and our teachers and our parents
[08:03.280 -> 08:07.120] can work out where they can transfer your knowledge and your understanding into their own lives.
[08:07.120 -> 08:10.840] So if I was to talk to you about being a modern leader, and I'd really love to
[08:10.840 -> 08:15.520] get into some specifics here, the skills that you use on a day-to-day basis to
[08:15.520 -> 08:19.200] get the message through to your players and to your team, can you give us a story
[08:19.200 -> 08:24.600] of a time where you've really had a player who maybe hasn't got the message
[08:24.920 -> 08:29.000] and you've had to delve really deep into your skill set to get the message across to them,
[08:29.000 -> 08:35.000] or perhaps when you've taken on a whole group and the mentality and the culture hasn't been right and you've had to change that.
[08:35.000 -> 08:45.000] Could you talk us through your skills and your go-to methods for taking a team to the place that you want them to be? i'r lle y byddwch chi eisiau iddyn nhw fod. Gallaf i chi roi rhai enghraifft o beth sydd wedi gweithio
[08:45.000 -> 08:48.000] yn Sarrison ac yn beth sydd yn gweithio'n debyg ar ddechrau'r arloes.
[08:48.000 -> 08:52.000] Sarrison o'r amser pan oedd yn sefydliad sy'n ddifrifol,
[08:52.000 -> 08:55.000] yn debyg, sefydliad sydd wedi'i gael arwain.
[08:55.000 -> 09:07.000] Yn ystod hwn, fe wnaeth Brendan Venter a Edward Griffiths a oedd yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn yn ystod hwn ymlaen, nid dim ond i hyfforddi a chwarae ymlaen, ond i fyw ymlaen,
[09:07.000 -> 09:14.000] ddiscipline, gweithredu a hymdrech, gwych pwysigrwydd, a'n eithaf ddiddorol o ran eu gwybodaeth,
[09:14.000 -> 09:27.520] ond roeddent yn cael eu hysbysu, yn eithaf fanatigol, fel y sefydliad y gweithwyr. So you had to adopt him as a player and the transformation in terms of what we saw on
[09:27.520 -> 09:32.180] the field went from kind of 11th, 10th to finalists the first year to winning it the
[09:32.180 -> 09:39.400] second and thereafter what was a young side, I had the brilliant, fortunate opportunity
[09:39.400 -> 09:50.000] to grow being a young coach with this young side over the course of 10 years. Ie, rydw i'n gweithio gyda'r ymdrechion hwn o'r diwrnod o 10 mlynedd. Felly roeddwn i'n 25, 26 oed, ac rydw i'n gweithio gyda Jamie George, Owen Farrell a George Crew.
[09:50.000 -> 09:53.000] Roedd yr holl ffyrdd yn 17, 18 oed ar y pryd.
[09:53.000 -> 09:59.000] Mae'n dod yn ffwrdd o'r ffyrdd i mi, fy nghyfathrebu o'r anodd i fod yn ddefnyddiol a chyflym,
[09:59.000 -> 10:02.000] gyda'ch methodoleg o weithredu, gyda'ch methodoleg o leolaeth,
[10:02.000 -> 10:05.920] gyda'r ffordd i chi gael y mwyaf o'r chwaraewyr hwn a'r mwyaf o'r teams.
[10:05.920 -> 10:07.640] Oherwydd, wrth i'r rhai'n groesu,
[10:07.640 -> 10:10.080] mae'r rhai'n groesu trwy'r blynyddoedd mwyaf ffurfiol o'u bywyd,
[10:10.080 -> 10:13.080] o 17 i 24, 25,
[10:13.080 -> 10:15.560] i gwrthi'r dyn, i'w gwahodd,
[10:15.560 -> 10:17.160] i gael myfyrwyr.
[10:17.160 -> 10:19.000] Maen nhw'n dod yn bobl gwahanol,
[10:19.000 -> 10:19.920] ac fel dweud, mae'n ddod yn ddifrifol,
[10:19.920 -> 10:22.520] oherwydd dyna'n digwydd i ddysgu mwy am eich hunain
[10:22.520 -> 10:23.720] yn y byd y byddwch chi'n ei wneud am y rhai'r dynnau hwn
[10:23.720 -> 10:25.720] dros y byd o'u bywyd, neu'r byd o'n i. Oherwydd rydw i wedi gwneud yr un peth. because you end up learning more about yourself than you do about these lads over that span of their lives
[10:25.720 -> 10:26.560] or that span of my life,
[10:26.560 -> 10:27.520] because I've done the same.
[10:27.520 -> 10:29.360] I got married and had a kid in that period as well.
[10:29.360 -> 10:33.520] So from being a very coach-led organization,
[10:33.520 -> 10:36.520] you fast forward to maybe, I forget what years it was,
[10:36.520 -> 10:38.580] but maybe six, seven years down the line,
[10:38.580 -> 10:40.160] maybe eight years down the line,
[10:40.160 -> 10:43.080] and we'd won a few titles,
[10:43.080 -> 10:46.800] and we were still basing the environment, the culture of the club
[10:46.800 -> 10:53.360] around those old principles, the golden circles of Simon Sinek, you know, everyone's seen them,
[10:53.360 -> 10:58.960] aren't they? The why, the how and the what, making it all about the why and I presented this again
[10:58.960 -> 11:03.280] because we just lost five games in the bounce and this was a, you know, a championship winning team
[11:03.280 -> 11:08.720] so to lose five games in the bounce is obviously something clearly wrong with the culture. So presented it back to
[11:08.720 -> 11:13.040] the lads, I got an Owen Farrow and said, don't get it. This is a guy who's adhered to it
[11:13.040 -> 11:17.360] for like six or seven years. Don't get it. What do you mean? It's there. It's the golden
[11:17.360 -> 11:22.040] circles of success. How do you not get it? Let's focus on the why. We're all about the
[11:22.040 -> 11:28.000] process at the moment. But what that made me do, and him and the rest of us,
[11:28.000 -> 11:34.200] was get into many, many heated and honest conversations,
[11:34.200 -> 11:38.400] usually smaller ones, but occasionally with the group,
[11:38.400 -> 11:42.400] to determine, to come back to what kind of a team we were then,
[11:42.400 -> 11:44.800] to redefine that identity.
[11:44.800 -> 11:45.400] We went from being a coach-led organisation to start to and come back to what kind of a team we were then, to redefine that identity.
[11:45.400 -> 11:49.120] We went from being a coach-led organisation to start
[11:49.120 -> 11:52.680] to maybe a coach and player-led organisation
[11:52.680 -> 11:54.200] six or seven years in,
[11:54.200 -> 11:56.960] fast forward to another two or three years down the line.
[11:56.960 -> 11:59.760] I did the least amount of coaching with that side
[11:59.760 -> 12:02.760] towards the back end of the season that I've ever done.
[12:02.760 -> 12:05.000] I was purely facilitating the intelligence, the motivation, the motivational drive o'r ddau o'r llwyddiant, a dwi wedi gwneud. Roeddwn i'n cymryd cymorth
[12:05.000 -> 12:06.000] y dealltwriaeth,
[12:06.000 -> 12:07.000] y cymorth,
[12:07.000 -> 12:09.000] y cymorth ddwyieith,
[12:09.000 -> 12:10.000] y gallant dweud
[12:10.000 -> 12:11.000] yw'r gwaith sy'n well i'r tîm.
[12:11.000 -> 12:12.000] Oherwydd roeddent yn mwy matur yno.
[12:12.000 -> 12:13.000] Nawr rydyn ni'n siarad
[12:13.000 -> 12:14.000] gyda Jamie George
[12:14.000 -> 12:15.000] yn 29 oed,
[12:15.000 -> 12:17.000] 30 oed.
[12:17.000 -> 12:19.000] Felly roeddwn i'n dod yn ôl
[12:19.000 -> 12:21.000] a gwneud i nhw
[12:21.000 -> 12:22.000] wneud yr hyn rydyn nhw eisiau
[12:22.000 -> 12:23.000] o ran cymryd ymlaen
[12:23.000 -> 12:24.000] ac roeddwn i wedi adeiladu'r cyfathrebu
[12:24.000 -> 12:27.360] a'r dealltwriaeth dros y blynyddoedd, mewn gwirionedd. Roeddwn i'n ymuno â hyn and letting them do what they wanted in terms of taking over. And we built that trust and that understanding over the years, really.
[12:27.800 -> 12:28.760] We were that together.
[12:29.640 -> 12:34.120] Many of our philosophers and processes that it was, it was the best way.
[12:34.120 -> 12:37.040] So to answer, to answer your original question, how do you lead?
[12:37.040 -> 12:40.400] Like in many different ways, depending on what the culture, the
[12:40.400 -> 12:43.040] environment and the team needed.
[12:43.400 -> 12:46.160] Sometimes it's not what you want to do, how you feel you want to lead, how y byd a'r tîm sydd angen. Weithiau, nid yw'r hyn rydych chi'n eisiau ei wneud,
[12:46.160 -> 12:47.360] ond sut rydych chi'n teimlo eich bod chi eisiau'n gynllunio,
[12:47.360 -> 12:48.760] sut rydych chi'n teimlo eich bod chi eisiau'n hyfforddi,
[12:48.760 -> 12:51.360] ond mae'n cael y gweithio gyda'r holl, rwy'n credu,
[12:51.360 -> 12:53.040] i gael eich ego yn y hwch
[12:53.040 -> 12:54.520] a gwneud yr hyn sy'n anodd.
[12:54.520 -> 12:57.000] Welw, a dyna'r peth sy'n ffasinoiadu i mi, Alex.
[12:57.000 -> 12:58.480] Y coment yma, y dywedoddwch am
[12:58.480 -> 13:01.120] gael eich ego yn y hwch,
[13:01.120 -> 13:04.120] mae'n aspect pwysig iawn o leolaeth.
[13:04.120 -> 13:25.400] Felly, sut y gwnaethoch chi wneud hynny? Sut y y gafodd chi ddysgu i'w wneud? Mae genmdrechu. Rwy'n credu, rwy'n credu,
[13:25.400 -> 13:27.920] beth mae pobl o ffyrdd o'ch amgylchedd
[13:27.920 -> 13:29.480] yn gallu ei wneud yw
[13:29.480 -> 13:31.200] gael ymdrech ymlaen
[13:31.200 -> 13:34.160] na ddywedodd eich bod wedi bod yn ei ddod yn ddiweddar.
[13:34.160 -> 13:36.160] Ac i rywun sy'n deall
[13:36.160 -> 13:37.760] chi'n ddifrif
[13:37.760 -> 13:39.880] yn ffyrdd o'ch gwreiddiau, fel mae eich ffraint yn ei wneud,
[13:39.880 -> 13:41.120] neu'ch gwreiddiau gwych,
[13:41.120 -> 13:43.320] a chael eu cyngor
[13:43.320 -> 13:45.600] yn unigol. Pan ydych chi'n ddweud pethau o ran ymdrech your best friends do and take their counsel with equal measure. When you're
[13:45.600 -> 13:49.400] saying things from an emotional point of view at the end of a day for instance
[13:49.400 -> 13:52.920] which you're probably just justifying your own opinions on just to make
[13:52.920 -> 13:57.640] yourself feel better, she will open my eyes to the reason behind the
[13:57.640 -> 14:02.120] reason so it's never the thing people don't react or say or do something for
[14:02.120 -> 14:06.000] the for the obvious reason rarely is it the obvious one there's always a reason Dydyn ni'n gweithio yn y ffyrdd. Ond mae'n rhaid i bobl ddim yn ymdrech neu dweud neu gwneud rhywbeth ar gyfer y rhesymau amgylchedd.
[14:06.000 -> 14:08.000] Dydy'r rhesymau'n amlwg.
[14:08.000 -> 14:10.000] Mae'r rhesymau'n amgylchedd ar gyfer y rhesymau.
[14:10.000 -> 14:14.000] Ac yna, dwi'n meddwl, mae'r hyn sy'n cynyddu eich ymdrech, does dim?
[14:14.000 -> 14:16.000] Ond dyna ni ddangos un o'r ffordd y gwnes i.
[14:16.000 -> 14:20.000] Efallai y dywedais i'r chwaraewr y dydd hwnna,
[14:20.000 -> 14:21.000] dweud i'r chwaraewr,
[14:21.000 -> 14:22.000] dweud, dweud,
[14:22.000 -> 14:23.000] dweud,
[14:23.000 -> 14:24.000] dweud,
[14:24.000 -> 14:27.000] dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, dweud, ymlaen yn y diwrnod hwnnw, ac roedd yn seiliedig ar beth oedd eich ffyrdd yn eich gweithio. Un o'r mwyaf o ffyrdd, ac mae'n coach nawr, felly gallwch ei gofyn am hyn,
[14:27.000 -> 14:29.000] yw sefydliad gyda Richard Wigglesworth,
[14:29.000 -> 14:32.000] a oedd ymgynghoriad, a oedd yn mynd i'r ysgol yma i mi,
[14:32.000 -> 14:36.000] a chwarae o'r Sarrisons am ddau amser, a chwarae ar Leicester nawr,
[14:36.000 -> 14:39.000] a bydd yn coach gwych, a bydd yn cael llawer o amser ar gyfer each un,
[14:39.000 -> 14:42.000] ond ar y ffyrdd, mae'n ymgynghoriad mwy agresif,
[14:42.000 -> 14:49.000] a'r mwy cymdeithasol, a'r ffyrdd angyrchol, a'r ffyrdd sydd wedi dod o'r rhan fach. the field he's the most abrasive and aggressive and most competitive angry ant that's ever like crossed the white line so there was coaching sessions
[14:49.000 -> 14:53.560] where I'd be running the session and he wouldn't agree with it to the point
[14:53.560 -> 14:57.720] where he's shouting at me so I just sent him off just so I can't have this like
[14:57.720 -> 15:01.400] it's not about me and you you've got to go and he could go home and you know
[15:01.400 -> 15:06.720] went home and stood in it like I can't believe it like why is, why is he trying to undermine it and all this kind of stuff.
[15:06.720 -> 15:08.160] And it was, it was nothing to do with that.
[15:08.160 -> 15:12.160] It was to do with his past relationship.
[15:12.160 -> 15:17.600] And you tend to be more aggressive with people you love, I guess, don't you?
[15:17.600 -> 15:22.720] When the emotions are flowing, you take those liberties, which you don't offer yourself if
[15:22.720 -> 15:24.080] it's just a working relationship.
[15:24.080 -> 15:25.840] And that was the one time she's like,
[15:25.840 -> 15:28.240] you need to ring him, don't sit on this,
[15:28.240 -> 15:29.080] like ring him up.
[15:29.080 -> 15:31.280] And it was a 15 minute conversation
[15:31.280 -> 15:33.320] and we're all up in mates again
[15:33.320 -> 15:34.700] and we've got a better working relationship.
[15:34.700 -> 15:38.400] So I just find, I don't say women in general,
[15:38.400 -> 15:41.160] but they generally are better communicators,
[15:41.160 -> 15:42.480] certainly the ones in my life,
[15:42.480 -> 15:44.760] and I'm from a matriarchal family,
[15:44.760 -> 15:48.800] tend to give you that perspective which sometimes is difficult to see.
[15:49.440 -> 15:53.280] I'd like to read out a quote from the Saracens director of rugby Mark McCall
[15:54.080 -> 15:57.520] who says of you Alex, he's one of the leading coaches of his generation,
[15:57.520 -> 16:01.360] blending comprehensive technical and tactical knowledge with an in-depth understanding of the
[16:01.360 -> 16:05.920] people in his care. His creativity, ability to articulate message
[16:05.920 -> 16:08.200] and a ferocious desire to improve players
[16:08.200 -> 16:10.980] sets the standard of what it is to be a modern day coach.
[16:10.980 -> 16:13.320] Now, I don't read that out to embarrass you
[16:13.320 -> 16:17.040] because I know that you're a man who doesn't appreciate ego
[16:17.040 -> 16:18.320] or doesn't have much of one either.
[16:18.320 -> 16:19.160] I'll keep it coming, Jake.
[16:19.160 -> 16:20.000] But I'd love to,
[16:20.000 -> 16:24.120] but I'd just love to dive into three or four
[16:24.120 -> 16:25.700] of these little areas, if I may. I think it's
[16:25.700 -> 16:31.660] a really nice area to start. And first of all, the comment Mark makes about an understanding
[16:31.660 -> 16:36.220] of the people in his care. First of all, how important is that? And secondly, how do you
[16:36.220 -> 16:39.500] go about having that empathy for the people around you?
[16:39.500 -> 16:48.320] Mark Walker- I think it's the most important thing, actually. Understanding them, understanding what makes them tick.
[16:50.040 -> 16:54.200] Yeah, understanding all aspects of the life.
[16:54.200 -> 16:56.440] Because the rugby side of things,
[16:56.440 -> 16:59.200] for me, having been in the game forever,
[16:59.200 -> 17:01.560] I'm still not as old as some,
[17:01.560 -> 17:03.600] it is the easier thing to comprehend.
[17:03.600 -> 17:08.320] You know, you watch enough games, you do enough analysis, you immerse yourself in the sport for long enough, you
[17:08.320 -> 17:15.720] can see the technicalities. Yet, the more rewarding and the more difficult nature of
[17:15.720 -> 17:22.280] high performance of the game is the ever changing constant that is people, where their lives
[17:22.280 -> 17:28.320] at, where their heads at and stuff. So to be empathetic, to continuously put yourself out there
[17:28.320 -> 17:31.680] because it does take extra cognitive load on you,
[17:31.680 -> 17:34.080] I think is the most important thing in an environment
[17:34.080 -> 17:36.160] where I'm doing less and less coaching.
[17:36.160 -> 17:39.960] So the way you understand it is if there's a conflict
[17:39.960 -> 17:42.720] then walk towards it like you know nothing.
[17:42.720 -> 17:44.600] Now ask the questions, that's hard
[17:44.600 -> 17:46.320] because you automatically become defensive. So when there's conflict, actually go towards it like you know nothing. No, ask the questions, that's hard because you automatically become defensive.
[17:46.320 -> 17:47.160] So when there's conflict,
[17:47.160 -> 17:50.380] actually go towards it and ask the questions.
[17:50.380 -> 17:52.360] Have as many small and honest
[17:52.360 -> 17:55.040] and often conversations as you can
[17:55.040 -> 17:58.160] with groups of eight or less people, ideally,
[17:58.160 -> 18:00.000] because then you get that interaction.
[18:00.000 -> 18:02.760] And then I also think meeting the families
[18:02.760 -> 18:04.200] and meeting the wives is important.
[18:04.200 -> 18:06.480] Like we had a social on Saturday
[18:06.480 -> 18:07.760] to watch the England game,
[18:07.760 -> 18:09.360] took them all out to Freight Island,
[18:09.360 -> 18:10.620] hell of a place.
[18:10.620 -> 18:12.680] And the boys were really, really keen
[18:12.680 -> 18:14.520] to just make it a lads do.
[18:14.520 -> 18:17.680] And I was adamant that it shouldn't be
[18:17.680 -> 18:18.680] and it couldn't be,
[18:18.680 -> 18:22.520] because I wanted the girls to meet the girls.
[18:22.520 -> 18:24.240] I wanted the wives to meet each other.
[18:24.240 -> 18:26.400] And I wanted the lads to meet each other's wives
[18:26.400 -> 18:29.480] because you learn so much about someone
[18:29.480 -> 18:31.480] through the partner and the friends,
[18:31.480 -> 18:35.040] the company, the keep, you know, the partner specifically.
[18:35.040 -> 18:36.720] And it was a really good do.
[18:36.720 -> 18:38.400] And I didn't get shouted at once,
[18:38.400 -> 18:39.960] not until I got home at least.
[18:39.960 -> 18:41.280] Coming back to this,
[18:41.280 -> 18:45.520] as many varied and often small conversations you can have, the more
[18:45.520 -> 18:52.120] organic those conversations, hence why a beer or two helps, because the facade drops, the
[18:52.120 -> 18:53.120] better.
[18:53.120 -> 18:58.840] We've got a table tennis tournament happening this week, and I just know the number of conversations
[18:58.840 -> 19:01.800] that are going to revolve around that table will be priceless.
[19:01.800 -> 19:05.760] A coffee machine,
[19:02.880 -> 19:08.280] man who tangled to a langer, helps all the
[19:05.760 -> 19:10.280] young lads, a bit of a barista, shows them
[19:08.280 -> 19:12.560] how to make coffee but it's all the little
[19:10.280 -> 19:15.400] interactions that go on whilst he's
[19:12.560 -> 19:17.400] showing them that, that contribute to
[19:15.400 -> 19:19.280] their combined empathy as well. So this
[19:17.400 -> 19:21.840] is not a new concept, this is, you know, I
[19:19.280 -> 19:25.160] have leached this from Margaret Heffernan,
[19:21.840 -> 19:27.440] who's a CEO of 70 companies and swears by social capital being the glue
[19:27.440 -> 19:29.640] in any successful company.
[19:29.640 -> 19:32.040] So it's something that I have invested in very heavily
[19:32.040 -> 19:33.560] at the start and I continue to,
[19:33.560 -> 19:38.280] but I still think it's a bit of an undefined process.
[19:38.280 -> 19:40.840] So as it is undefined, you can take it anywhere.
[19:40.840 -> 19:42.240] And from what you've learned from Margaret
[19:42.240 -> 19:45.080] and what you've learned in your own space in rugby,
[19:45.080 -> 19:47.320] what would you say to those business leaders
[19:47.320 -> 19:49.480] listening to this that think,
[19:49.480 -> 19:50.960] sounds great, it's all very good,
[19:50.960 -> 19:52.280] but I'm busy running a business,
[19:52.280 -> 19:53.680] I've got numbers I need to hit,
[19:53.680 -> 19:55.760] I've got turnover I need to get to,
[19:55.760 -> 19:57.200] I've got kids at home,
[19:57.200 -> 19:59.040] I'm already working 15 hours a day,
[19:59.040 -> 20:01.400] I have no time for these soft skills.
[20:01.400 -> 20:03.200] What would you say to those people?
[20:03.200 -> 20:04.880] Who's not working hard,
[20:05.840 -> 20:07.880] who hasn't got kids.
[20:07.880 -> 20:10.080] You know, this is truly the extra kind of 5%
[20:10.080 -> 20:11.780] that could take your business,
[20:11.780 -> 20:14.600] take your team to another level.
[20:14.600 -> 20:17.160] First off, it's like everyone's working that hard,
[20:17.160 -> 20:20.040] but secondly, it does take a faith, I guess,
[20:20.040 -> 20:21.880] because it's an intangible.
[20:21.880 -> 20:23.880] The outcomes of what I'm talking about
[20:23.880 -> 20:25.280] are seemingly intangible. It's not what I'm talking about are seemingly intangible.
[20:25.280 -> 20:28.000] It's not like GPS, and I've said this before.
[20:28.000 -> 20:29.960] Sports science is everywhere now, isn't it?
[20:29.960 -> 20:31.800] In all games, in all sports,
[20:31.800 -> 20:35.280] and you can make incremental improvements
[20:35.280 -> 20:38.280] through GPS data loading, like all our lives,
[20:38.280 -> 20:39.960] but everyone's doing that.
[20:39.960 -> 20:41.480] Everyone's onto that.
[20:41.480 -> 20:43.280] Whereas because this is an intangible
[20:43.280 -> 20:45.840] and you can't measure it,
[20:45.840 -> 20:49.120] people don't give it the credit or time
[20:49.120 -> 20:50.600] that it's worthy for.
[20:50.600 -> 20:53.280] You ask any player, any successful player,
[20:53.280 -> 20:54.840] and they'll tell you which,
[20:54.840 -> 20:56.680] how much of the game's mental,
[20:56.680 -> 20:59.720] how much of it comes down to the top two inches,
[20:59.720 -> 21:03.000] yet how many organizations or teams,
[21:03.000 -> 21:05.200] and let's just say business,
[21:05.200 -> 21:06.800] sport being a microcosm of business
[21:06.800 -> 21:08.400] being a microcosm of life,
[21:08.400 -> 21:12.060] invest 50% of the time on the mental skills,
[21:12.060 -> 21:13.600] or this is what I'm talking about here,
[21:13.600 -> 21:16.180] this ability to create cohesion within a team.
[21:17.160 -> 21:18.360] Very, very few do,
[21:18.360 -> 21:21.780] because you can't turn around to an owner and say,
[21:23.160 -> 21:27.760] give me so much money so we can build a mind gym,
[21:27.760 -> 21:31.360] which we have, we built a gym for the mind.
[21:31.360 -> 21:33.300] But because of the results we had at the start,
[21:33.300 -> 21:34.920] he's showing good faith as well
[21:34.920 -> 21:36.660] in what we're trying to build here.
[21:36.660 -> 21:38.680] A mind gym, just to let you know,
[21:38.680 -> 21:41.320] is pretty much just a room.
[21:41.320 -> 21:43.840] I said it to my brother, I was dead excited,
[21:43.840 -> 21:48.080] I'm like, pop, pop, we've just built a gym, gym for the mind. We're going to call it a mind gym.
[21:49.040 -> 21:54.480] He's like, Ace, what is it? I'm like, it's a room where we do stuff on the mind. And as yet,
[21:54.480 -> 21:58.240] there's not a lot in it to be fair, because we're still trying to figure that out.
[21:58.240 -> 21:58.720] But it is-
[21:58.720 -> 21:59.840] Does it need much in it?
[21:59.840 -> 22:04.720] No, no, exactly. I mean, it is a space where at the moment we do some kinesthetic movements,
[22:04.720 -> 22:07.000] some awareness of your own body, some breathing. We've gone through the mindfulness and the Na, na, yn unig. Dw i'n meddwl, mae'n ymdrechon, ar hyn o bryd, rydyn ni'n gwneud rhai cynyddiadau kinesthetig, rhai cydnabod eich eiliadau eich hun, rhai adnoddau.
[22:07.000 -> 22:16.000] Rydyn ni'n mynd drwy'r meddwl a'r ffordd o meddwl i'r ffysiologi o adnoddau a sut mae hynny'n gallu controli eich cyfathrebu a'ch cyfathrebu sy'n ymdrechu.
[22:16.000 -> 22:20.000] Ac mae'r rhai hynny'n cael eu gosod, ond rwy'n teimlo bod yna lawer mwy o beth y gallwn ei wneud yno.
[22:20.000 -> 22:46.160] Un peth rydw i wedi ei ddiddordeb amdanoch chi Alex, yw ymwneud â'r thema'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r f chi yn Saracens, neu nawr yn Sale, yn aml yn dweud wrthym sut oedd creadigol a chweilwyr,
[22:46.160 -> 22:50.880] os oedd hyn yn rhoi'r wythnosau'r wythnosau arall
[22:50.880 -> 22:52.960] y byddwch chi'n defnyddio cyn y gêm.
[22:52.960 -> 22:56.160] A oeddech chi'n dweud wrthym y rôl creadigol
[22:56.160 -> 22:58.320] yn eich styl gyrfaoeddol?
[22:58.320 -> 23:00.080] Felly, fel rydw i wedi siarad amdano,
[23:00.080 -> 23:01.440] mae pawb yn gweld y gêm,
[23:01.440 -> 23:03.600] mae pawb yn gwneud ymdrechion ychydig,
[23:03.600 -> 23:08.520] mae pawb yn gweld tri gêm cyn y tîm chwaraewyr, everyone's watching the games right? Everyone's doing similar analysis. Everyone watches three games before the player team and then define all that
[23:08.520 -> 23:13.200] information, that's 16 gigabytes in and around of information down to maybe two
[23:13.200 -> 23:17.080] or three things and you want those things to stick otherwise what's the
[23:17.080 -> 23:21.240] point of all that hard work? So it's trying to find an anchor, that's part of it.
[23:21.240 -> 23:25.240] Trying to find an anchor or using an LP or using
[23:25.240 -> 23:29.120] something that hooks two or three things that you're going after because if they're
[23:29.120 -> 23:32.600] truly buying to remember it then they'll have more intent, that's the theory
[23:32.600 -> 23:35.920] behind it. That's part of it but the other part is being sat there as a
[23:35.920 -> 23:40.640] player for like 10 years and being utterly bored to do with something that
[23:40.640 -> 23:43.200] I should be loving, it should be the best time of your life this shouldn't it?
[23:43.200 -> 23:45.160] Playing sport, being in a professional team,
[23:45.160 -> 23:46.760] should be brilliant, all of it.
[23:46.760 -> 23:50.680] So I think we owe it to the lads to want to come in
[23:50.680 -> 23:53.200] and to want to, like, not just interact,
[23:53.200 -> 23:56.040] because a lot of what we have now is through the engagement,
[23:56.040 -> 23:58.520] is through the conversations that I've talked about,
[23:58.520 -> 24:01.080] but to want to be involved and to want to be engaged
[24:01.080 -> 24:02.320] with what's going on in front of them.
[24:02.320 -> 24:08.280] And if they do so, then you basically got another session although it will be it not one where
[24:08.280 -> 24:12.320] they're getting tired but they can take information in that's part of their
[24:12.320 -> 24:15.800] growth though isn't it as a person like the messages are generally bigger than
[24:15.800 -> 24:21.620] just the game creativity however you find it whether it's in the car or on
[24:21.620 -> 24:27.920] the toilet sometimes over a beer in the pub like I say talking to my missus yn y car, neu ar y toilet, weithiau drwy fyr a'r pub, fel y dweudais, sgwrsio gyda fy nhw. Dyna'r rhan o'r swydd i mi.
[24:28.560 -> 24:32.080] Felly, pa mor amser byddwch chi'n rhoi ar y thema, yn ystod
[24:32.080 -> 24:37.040] gwneud yr analysis o'r gêm sy'n dod i mewn?
[24:37.040 -> 24:41.280] Felly, os oes gennych chi gysylltiad o ffyrdd, pa mor amser byddwch chi'n rhoi ar y thema
[24:41.280 -> 24:43.280] yn ystod y cyfrifiad?
[24:43.280 -> 24:47.960] Wel, rwy'n ei ddifrifio o'r Crusaders. Roedd yn rhaid i mi fynd yn fy nôl, yn fy rhan gwneud yn fy swydd
[24:47.960 -> 25:06.000] ym Saeryson ar ddiweddarach, yn ystod y dydd, yn cyflawni'r tri neu'r fath o gynghydiadau y dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i'r dydd, i gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw. I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw. I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw.
[25:06.000 -> 25:08.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw.
[25:08.000 -> 25:10.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw.
[25:10.000 -> 25:12.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw.
[25:12.000 -> 25:14.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud y rhai sydd yn y pen draw.
[25:14.000 -> 25:16.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud the game.
[25:16.000 -> 25:18.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud the game.
[25:18.000 -> 25:20.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud the game.
[25:20.000 -> 25:22.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud the game.
[25:22.000 -> 25:24.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud the game.
[25:24.000 -> 25:27.000] I gael mwy o ddiddordeb i ddweud the game. I have a lot of fun engaging so they can take it home. byddai'r rhesymau yna i'w wneud. Felly roeddwn i'n siarad gyda Scott Robinson,
[25:27.000 -> 25:31.000] roedd gennym ni rhai cyfansoddiadau yn ddechrau'r cysylltiadau
[25:31.000 -> 25:33.000] gyda'r Crusaders.
[25:33.000 -> 25:35.000] Ac roeddwn i'n siarad am y prosesau,
[25:35.000 -> 25:37.000] ac mae'n ferson creadigol iawn ei hun.
[25:37.000 -> 25:39.000] Fe wnaethon ni eisiau ei weld yn breakdance
[25:39.000 -> 25:41.000] ar ôl ei gynnal y tîm neu ddau yn y ffyrdd,
[25:41.000 -> 25:43.000] felly mae llawer o bethau i mi ei fod.
[25:43.000 -> 25:45.680] Dwi ddim yn dda iawn i ddanser. Ond mae gennym dîm creadigol, on the field so there's a lot about him that I like. I'm not as good a dancer.
[25:48.840 -> 25:51.680] But he's got a creative team, which we've now put in place at SAIL.
[25:51.680 -> 25:54.360] So we've looked amongst the group
[25:54.360 -> 25:55.640] and picked out some of the guys
[25:55.640 -> 25:56.920] who are a bit more eccentric,
[25:56.920 -> 25:58.720] who are creatively minded,
[25:58.720 -> 26:01.120] who aren't involved in some of the more
[26:01.120 -> 26:02.680] traditional leadership roles,
[26:02.680 -> 26:04.040] attack, defense, and whatever.
[26:04.040 -> 26:06.240] And we call it the deep blue crew,
[26:06.240 -> 26:07.160] because it goes with sharks,
[26:07.160 -> 26:09.160] and it's the crew that goes that little bit deeper,
[26:09.160 -> 26:12.280] that thinks that little bit deeper than your average player.
[26:12.280 -> 26:13.920] And we meet up once a week,
[26:13.920 -> 26:15.320] and we have a bit of a crack,
[26:15.320 -> 26:16.280] and we have a bit of a laugh,
[26:16.280 -> 26:17.280] and we look at the next week,
[26:17.280 -> 26:18.120] and we look who we're playing,
[26:18.120 -> 26:20.280] and we discuss a theme around that,
[26:20.280 -> 26:22.160] that the lads would think is a good one,
[26:22.160 -> 26:23.840] and how we can bring it to life.
[26:23.840 -> 26:27.040] So can you give us an example then, and help us work through how you bring it to life?
[26:27.040 -> 26:32.000] Well let's, this week we talked about the look of the Irish and
[26:32.000 -> 26:35.960] you know I said lads and this was through the BBC, this was the last week
[26:35.960 -> 26:40.040] so I opened up I said lads I wouldn't allow you to be casually racist to you
[26:40.040 -> 26:43.200] with regards to the Irish like when you think of the Irish and you look at AJ
[26:43.200 -> 26:48.880] McGuinty what do you think of and they're like oh you know I won't go to what they said
[26:48.880 -> 26:53.640] but generally speaking loves it loves a drink loves a good time lucky and then
[26:53.640 -> 26:56.800] mention leprechauns and pots of gold and so all the lads are conversing around
[26:56.800 -> 27:01.000] this isn't the team but it was a DBC that we came up with it I'm like right
[27:01.000 -> 27:05.520] and what about the team the London London Irish team, because you can consider them lucky.
[27:05.520 -> 27:09.880] They came back and they drew with us 31-0 down at their place.
[27:10.600 -> 27:15.660] And they came back from Exeter 14 points down and they won in the last minute against Saracens. I'm like, well,
[27:16.200 -> 27:20.240] you look at all those and you can say they're lucky, but it's not the luck of the Irish.
[27:20.240 -> 27:24.040] They do it week in, week out, lads. They're the best at scoring in the last quarter. So let's define luck.
[27:24.560 -> 27:30.000] How can we make our own luck? If it's out there, and it's perceivable, how do you make it?
[27:30.000 -> 27:35.000] So it was Seneca, the ancient philosopher, I think he was a Greek philosopher.
[27:35.000 -> 27:37.000] One of the Stoics, yeah.
[27:37.000 -> 27:41.000] Yeah, there you go, there you go. I knew he was in the company of more intelligent people.
[27:41.000 -> 27:47.000] And he said that luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. A dweud y gwir, yw'r cyfle yw'r hyn sy'n digwydd pan fydd y preparatio yn cyrraedd cyfle.
[27:47.000 -> 27:50.000] Felly nawr y gallwch chi ddefnyddio, nawr y gallwn ni weithio arno.
[27:50.000 -> 27:56.000] Felly, iawn, y dydd hwn, rydym yn deall pa bydd y preparatio yn eitha' i ni, a pha bydd y cyfleau yn ymwneud â nhw.
[27:56.000 -> 28:01.000] Gallwn ni wneud yn ddifrifol iawn, yn hytrach na'r pethau sy'n digwydd gyda'r ball.
[28:01.000 -> 28:08.000] Felly dyna'r wythnos rydyn ni'n ei gael yma. Ac ar y ddŵr hwnnw, mae gennym ddynion Irish yn ymwneud â bwyd ar gyfer cyfansoddiad.
[28:08.000 -> 28:11.000] Rydyn ni'n chwarae yn dynion Irish, mae gennym dynion Irish yn chwarae,
[28:11.000 -> 28:13.000] yn dod allan o'r ystafell gynllun, pethau fel hynny.
[28:13.000 -> 28:16.000] Felly rydyn ni'n teimlo i'w angor yn y mwyaf maen nhw'n gallu.
[28:16.000 -> 28:18.000] Ac pa ffynedau o hynny, Alex?
[28:18.000 -> 28:22.000] Beth ydych chi'n ei fod yn teimlo, fel cyfrifol a mynd i lawr y ffyned creadigol hwnnw,
[28:22.000 -> 28:24.000] yn hytrach na'r ffyned traddodiadol,
[28:24.000 -> 28:48.480] gael y dynion yn ystod y swneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud â'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymwneud ag yw'r ffyrdd o ymw If you go to the Eiffel Tower and snog Kyle Emanoga on your birthday, you'll link the three things together. So you build more of those synapses in terms of your memory construct.
[28:48.480 -> 28:53.120] So, again, someone's probably going to call and say it's absolute bullshit that, but
[28:53.120 -> 28:58.000] that's my understanding. The more ways you can anchor it, a theme,
[28:58.000 -> 29:03.680] to the process of what you're trying to get, so your preparation to the look and how you make your own look,
[29:03.680 -> 29:05.840] the heavier it sticks with you.
[29:05.840 -> 29:10.400] So you have that shared mental model where you know what you're all going after.
[29:10.400 -> 29:11.840] And that's crucial.
[29:11.840 -> 29:13.440] That's like a military term, isn't it?
[29:13.440 -> 29:17.240] Where everyone is on the same page in terms of what they're chasing.
[29:17.240 -> 29:21.440] And if you can make those objectives or whatever you want to call them,
[29:21.440 -> 29:23.600] then you probably cracked it.
[29:23.600 -> 29:26.200] But then on the flip side of that,
[29:26.200 -> 29:28.080] if you get your analysis wrong,
[29:28.080 -> 29:30.040] and you've anchored all these things in
[29:30.040 -> 29:31.840] over the course of a week with a bit of fun
[29:31.840 -> 29:32.880] and enjoyment's another one,
[29:32.880 -> 29:34.640] because it opens you up, I don't know what,
[29:34.640 -> 29:37.760] they go and do completely the wrong things on the game day.
[29:37.760 -> 29:39.680] That's the point that I want to mention though,
[29:39.680 -> 29:41.400] because obviously you had all that conversation
[29:41.400 -> 29:44.480] about playing in, playing London Irish,
[29:45.600 -> 29:46.440] and they did get a late try, didn't they?
[29:46.440 -> 29:47.280] They did, it didn't work for us.
[29:47.280 -> 29:50.320] They did get a late try to draw the game with you.
[29:50.320 -> 29:52.680] So when you've gone through this process where you go,
[29:52.680 -> 29:55.160] look guys, they're great late on, we need to attack that,
[29:55.160 -> 29:56.240] we need to go through the process
[29:56.240 -> 29:58.880] and they still do it against you.
[29:58.880 -> 30:01.260] I'm very interested to know what your mental process is
[30:01.260 -> 30:02.360] for dealing with that.
[30:02.360 -> 30:03.840] Do you get downcast?
[30:03.840 -> 30:05.640] Do you think we've got something wrong?
[30:05.640 -> 30:08.400] Or are you able to go, listen, we did our absolute best.
[30:08.400 -> 30:10.480] And the phrase we love on the podcast is,
[30:10.480 -> 30:12.800] the best you can with what you've got where you are.
[30:12.800 -> 30:14.000] Are you able to look at the fact
[30:14.000 -> 30:15.200] that you still did the best you had
[30:15.200 -> 30:17.320] with what you had where you were,
[30:17.320 -> 30:18.560] and it just wasn't your day?
[30:18.560 -> 30:20.400] I always look to myself first.
[30:20.400 -> 30:23.160] I generally blame my actions
[30:23.160 -> 30:28.480] and the words that I've spoken in a week by way of influencing the lads and the coaches
[30:28.480 -> 30:32.680] to see if there was anything I could have, would have done differently or better.
[30:32.680 -> 30:39.280] Then again, taking your ego off it, and this was the sports psych Dave Jones at Saracen,
[30:39.280 -> 30:42.680] said you actually think that you have more influence than you do.
[30:42.680 -> 30:48.200] You need to step back and give yourself some slack, but you can't make things happen just because you've
[30:48.200 -> 30:52.660] asked it of them you know so you have to put that into context and then as every
[30:52.660 -> 30:58.440] coach does pour over the stats, take the emotion out of it, look at the game
[30:58.440 -> 31:02.380] objectively as opposed to emotionally. Once you've done that and that's the day
[31:02.380 -> 31:05.400] after, speak to all the other coaches.
[31:05.400 -> 31:10.560] I think it's important to reference what you've seen objectively, unemotionally, to what you've
[31:10.560 -> 31:13.680] felt almost immediately after the game.
[31:13.680 -> 31:18.040] This is a process that we took from, we spent some time with special forces and ex-special
[31:18.040 -> 31:21.000] forces and they call it hot debriefing.
[31:21.000 -> 31:27.000] After every mission, each individual member of the team has a hot debrief,
[31:27.000 -> 31:33.000] because as you know, your own perception of what happened is rarely the reality,
[31:33.000 -> 31:38.000] and your perception is probably going to be different to the person who's right next to you,
[31:38.000 -> 31:43.000] in the same fight, in the same battle, in the same game, and getting as much information as you can.
[31:43.000 -> 31:46.320] Then you can perform a realistic review of,
[31:46.320 -> 31:47.400] did we get it right?
[31:47.400 -> 31:49.840] Is what we saw what we felt?
[31:49.840 -> 31:52.080] And after we saw it,
[31:52.080 -> 31:55.440] how can we align our feelings better in game, post game
[31:55.440 -> 31:56.840] to what was actually happening?
[31:56.840 -> 31:59.000] Cause that's the Holy grail, the golden goose, I guess,
[31:59.000 -> 32:00.880] is you're that in the moment,
[32:00.880 -> 32:02.440] you're that aware of your feelings,
[32:02.440 -> 32:04.400] it matches up so much with reality,
[32:04.400 -> 32:06.520] you're able to affect your next decision
[32:06.520 -> 32:07.760] regardless of emotion.
[32:08.800 -> 32:10.600] Hey, listen, I'm sorry to interrupt this episode.
[32:10.600 -> 32:12.920] I'm sure you'll agree, it's a great conversation,
[32:12.920 -> 32:14.520] but I just want to say, first of all,
[32:14.520 -> 32:16.880] thanks for listening to the Gallagher Leadership Series
[32:16.880 -> 32:18.840] with the High Performance Podcast.
[32:18.840 -> 32:21.720] But I also want to mention that I'm about to play you a clip
[32:21.720 -> 32:27.380] of Ben Earl talking about Owen Farrell from Gallagher's Rivals Together series
[32:27.380 -> 32:29.380] It's really cool. Have a listen to this
[32:29.520 -> 32:34.600] It's someone we probably both know very well is Owen. Yeah, and I'd say he's in that category
[32:34.600 -> 32:37.300] He doesn't let you have a bad training session
[32:37.300 -> 32:42.200] Does he because the standards if you're a couple of percent off you you are you're firstly hearing about it
[32:42.200 -> 32:44.200] even if you're not aware about it and like
[32:44.760 -> 32:46.360] Definitely raises the standard.
[32:47.360 -> 32:49.080] I mean, yeah, everyone talks about,
[32:49.080 -> 32:50.040] obviously he's been out injured
[32:50.040 -> 32:51.800] for a couple of weeks with us.
[32:51.800 -> 32:53.600] The standard of training when he comes back
[32:53.600 -> 32:57.440] is mental, it's night and day.
[32:57.440 -> 32:59.800] And that's just not like that anyone else
[32:59.800 -> 33:03.840] is not good enough, it's just that he's wired differently
[33:03.840 -> 33:08.920] in that regard, it's that he wants the best and he'll only accept the best. And that is so
[33:08.920 -> 33:14.720] motivating for you as a teammate but also for someone for me to learn off.
[33:14.720 -> 33:18.720] So if you want to hear more of that kind of insight from the likes of Danny Kerr,
[33:18.720 -> 33:23.520] Freddie Burns, Beno Abano on their own leadership journeys in the Gallagher
[33:23.520 -> 33:27.760] Premiership, then just head to Gallagher's YouTube channel, where you can watch all the episodes.
[33:27.760 -> 33:32.160] And I'll tell you what, I'll also put a link to all their episodes in our show notes as well.
[33:33.160 -> 33:35.920] I love this conversation about emotion and feelings,
[33:35.920 -> 33:39.000] because everyone has preconceptions, don't they?
[33:39.000 -> 33:42.200] And I suppose when we knew we were going to speak to you, Alex,
[33:42.200 -> 33:45.120] you know, I thought of this, you know, rugby player,
[33:45.120 -> 33:48.120] probably edging towards 16 stone, right?
[33:48.120 -> 33:48.960] In your playing days.
[33:48.960 -> 33:50.840] Yeah, I'm strong right now.
[33:50.840 -> 33:54.440] Well over six foot, played for his country,
[33:54.440 -> 33:56.040] played for Thale and Saracens.
[33:56.040 -> 33:57.240] And I had in my head,
[33:57.240 -> 33:59.080] I'd also read about the Wolfpack mentality
[33:59.080 -> 34:00.080] that you've created as well.
[34:00.080 -> 34:04.320] And I was expecting aggression and fight and determination
[34:04.320 -> 34:06.040] and digging in and moving
[34:06.040 -> 34:11.960] as one. Yet, this conversation has been almost about getting success with the opposite of
[34:11.960 -> 34:16.360] that. You know, psychological safety is a real recurring theme here. I think this is
[34:16.360 -> 34:20.720] a conversation that I would like to go a bit further on, the element of psychological safety.
[34:20.720 -> 34:25.760] Do you remember when you first realised the power of it? Because I would imagine,
[34:25.760 -> 34:29.360] and correct me if I'm wrong, that you grew up particularly early in your rugby career
[34:29.360 -> 34:33.840] where maybe psychological safety was not something that was prevalent or practised?
[34:33.840 -> 34:38.840] Yeah, without a shadow of a doubt. It's something that you can have and that you can lose quite
[34:38.840 -> 34:43.280] quickly as well. You know, it's a constant process of mowing the grass, as Margaret
[34:43.280 -> 34:45.120] Effingham would put it, you know, you think you've got a garden,
[34:45.120 -> 34:47.360] it's all looking really nice,
[34:47.360 -> 34:49.400] and you've got your rockery and everything else,
[34:49.400 -> 34:50.720] and a week later you go and order,
[34:50.720 -> 34:51.960] you turn around, it's overgrown,
[34:51.960 -> 34:52.800] it's looking like a mess.
[34:52.800 -> 34:56.240] So you've got to continuously upkeep your garden
[34:56.240 -> 34:58.080] as you would your atmosphere and environment
[34:58.080 -> 35:00.280] to be able to have those honest conversations.
[35:00.280 -> 35:03.560] It definitely wasn't even on the awareness
[35:03.560 -> 35:06.040] of coaching setups or organizations,
[35:06.040 -> 35:06.920] not in rugby anyway,
[35:06.920 -> 35:07.920] because it was quite a fledgling
[35:07.920 -> 35:10.760] and new in terms of the professionalism.
[35:10.760 -> 35:12.160] You know, you watch that last stand though,
[35:12.160 -> 35:14.200] and there's elements of it being there, isn't there?
[35:14.200 -> 35:15.360] I mean, a lot of what we're doing
[35:15.360 -> 35:17.200] isn't, it's all been done before, isn't it?
[35:17.200 -> 35:20.040] But the ability for, forget who that coach was,
[35:20.040 -> 35:22.000] but to understand Rodman and what he was like
[35:22.000 -> 35:23.640] and how he performed best,
[35:23.640 -> 35:24.600] and to treat him differently.
[35:24.600 -> 35:25.800] Like, it's not one way for all,
[35:25.800 -> 35:28.160] it's each to their own in terms of getting the most
[35:28.160 -> 35:29.640] out of the individual.
[35:29.640 -> 35:32.520] So the psychological safety side of things,
[35:32.520 -> 35:35.720] maybe it's just me, but I've got people around me
[35:35.720 -> 35:38.600] who are also very good at it and interested in it,
[35:38.600 -> 35:40.240] the coach and staff that is,
[35:40.240 -> 35:43.160] because they've all been ex-players as well.
[35:43.160 -> 35:46.340] They've all been down a few roads where it's hurt and about to struggle and
[35:47.080 -> 35:53.660] Get back to winning ways so that they understand what a player goes through during his life cycle
[35:53.660 -> 35:58.020] If you will the ups and downs and the fight and the triumphs for me
[35:59.040 -> 36:09.000] it's the most rewarding aspects of the game of of the job to be able to have a chat with someone and Mae'n ymwneud â phrofiadau athrawio'r chwaraeon, y swydd i gael sgwrs gyda pherson a teimlo eich bod chi wedi'u cyrraedd.
[36:09.000 -> 36:16.000] Rydych chi'n dod i'r safle lle rydych chi'n edrych ar gyfer sefydlu'r un fath o'r ymdrechion i ddod yn well.
[36:16.000 -> 36:25.680] Felly sut y gafwch chi'n ymdrechu ar gyfer pêler sy'n meddwl eu bod wedi'i gwrthdro neu sy'n meddwl eu bod wedi'i wneud ac yn dechrau ymdrechu ar y standardau? it or thinking that they've made it and then starting to relax standards.
[36:25.680 -> 36:30.760] It does happen when you give everything to a player and you look
[36:30.760 -> 36:35.960] after him as best you can in every aspect of his life, sometimes some of
[36:35.960 -> 36:39.920] them become entitled. There's being aware of it, what it looks like and
[36:39.920 -> 36:50.620] sometimes you can tell it in terms of the workloads, their intensities, their accelerations, because it's always feeling that affects your behaviors, not
[36:50.620 -> 36:54.760] the other way around for me. So if you're in some way entitled or
[36:54.760 -> 36:59.300] better than it, then you tend to see it in terms of behaviors and that's GPS or
[36:59.300 -> 37:02.800] you can see it subjectively, you can see it in body language and then it's about
[37:02.800 -> 37:07.420] challenging. When it comes to the simple things that require no talent,
[37:07.420 -> 37:09.420] those things you can address publicly.
[37:09.420 -> 37:13.180] Effort and intensity and movement and speed off the floor.
[37:13.180 -> 37:16.460] You know, you compare and contrast when you're in song,
[37:16.460 -> 37:17.700] when you're doing really well,
[37:17.700 -> 37:20.240] compared to when you're not just quite there.
[37:20.240 -> 37:22.940] Whether that be culturally or in terms of processes,
[37:22.940 -> 37:25.560] you can show that you can just do video modelling with that.
[37:25.560 -> 37:26.400] That's part of it.
[37:26.400 -> 37:30.920] Or you can force them to have the hard conversations as well,
[37:30.920 -> 37:33.120] force them to have them with each other.
[37:33.120 -> 37:36.200] And then the third way is by the one-on-ones,
[37:36.200 -> 37:37.840] isn't it, again, sitting them down.
[37:37.840 -> 37:40.360] Generally speaking, they'll find their own answers
[37:40.360 -> 37:41.880] if you ask the right questions.
[37:41.880 -> 37:43.920] Would you just explain to us the power of allowing
[37:43.920 -> 37:45.960] the players to have the conversation
[37:45.960 -> 37:48.000] rather than you always being the one
[37:48.000 -> 37:51.560] to be front and centre of these processes?
[37:51.560 -> 37:52.400] Yeah, it's massive.
[37:52.400 -> 37:55.120] It's huge that, but again, first of all,
[37:55.120 -> 37:56.920] you can't just say, right, here you go, go.
[37:56.920 -> 37:57.920] You have the conversation,
[37:57.920 -> 37:59.280] because you're going to get all those things
[37:59.280 -> 38:01.480] we talked about, this social desirability
[38:01.480 -> 38:04.400] and the desire for your strong talkers to talk first
[38:04.400 -> 38:06.600] and say
[38:04.640 -> 38:08.960] the things that they believe and that's
[38:06.600 -> 38:11.520] not necessarily what a young Tom
[38:08.960 -> 38:13.520] Roebuck or an Aaron Reid believes or
[38:11.520 -> 38:16.320] wants. So how you fashion those
[38:13.520 -> 38:18.800] conversations in terms of numbers, how
[38:16.320 -> 38:20.560] you lead into it to perhaps break some
[38:18.800 -> 38:24.320] of those barriers down so you get
[38:20.560 -> 38:26.160] honest and an equal contribution is
[38:24.320 -> 38:25.000] equally important
[38:25.400 -> 38:26.840] as a conversation itself.
[38:26.840 -> 38:28.560] And none of this is about the game, is it?
[38:28.560 -> 38:30.960] You know, this could be in any walk of life
[38:30.960 -> 38:34.000] because you get to those answers that they want.
[38:34.000 -> 38:35.720] Well, I think what you're starting to move us
[38:35.720 -> 38:37.600] towards Alex is understanding
[38:37.600 -> 38:39.360] when you talk about this self-managing team,
[38:39.360 -> 38:41.920] one of the phrases Jake and I often use
[38:41.920 -> 39:25.160] is cultural architects, your leaders in the dressing room that run it for you. Mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae' o'r values o'r values o'r values o'r triwmth. Rydyn ni'n gweld nhw, rydyn ni'n gweld eu gweithwyr trwy ffatig. Ac maen nhw'n rhaid i chi. D'yw'n gwybod beth dwi'n ei ddweud.
[39:25.160 -> 39:27.840] Felly, rwy'n credu, byddwn i'n dweud dros y blynyddoedd o flwyddyn,
[39:27.840 -> 39:31.480] gallwch chi ddeall beth sy'n ei hymrydol
[39:31.480 -> 39:34.320] a beth, pan mae rhywun yn dweud rhywbeth,
[39:34.600 -> 39:37.920] yn dweud rhywbeth sy'n ddwyieithog ac er mwyn y rhan fawr,
[39:37.920 -> 39:39.800] nid dim ond oherwydd eu bod nhw eisiau i chi allu clywed.
[39:40.120 -> 39:43.040] Yna mae'n bwysig i chi gael eich ein oed a'ch gynnyrch yn agor,
[39:43.400 -> 39:45.880] nid i fynd i'r sgwrs gyda'r dynion hyn, yn enwedig yn ystod y gêm, Then it becomes about keeping your eyes and ears open, not going into conversations with these lads,
[39:45.880 -> 39:47.040] particularly post-game,
[39:47.040 -> 39:51.480] which where you've already formulated your own conclusions,
[39:51.480 -> 39:55.200] trying to be open enough to take on board what they feel,
[39:55.200 -> 39:56.840] even if you don't agree with it,
[39:56.840 -> 39:58.760] and how they want to go about it.
[39:58.760 -> 40:00.680] And then, because then you can always go back to them
[40:00.680 -> 40:01.880] and say, well, what about this?
[40:01.880 -> 40:04.240] But sometimes it's just the venting of it,
[40:04.240 -> 40:06.540] which makes the difference.
[40:06.540 -> 40:08.300] Let's talk about players
[40:08.300 -> 40:11.460] that have resisted your coaching style.
[40:11.460 -> 40:13.880] Obviously we've sort of touched on it slightly just then.
[40:13.880 -> 40:18.880] When a player resists your approach and your way of working
[40:18.880 -> 40:22.260] as well as asking whether that player could do better,
[40:22.260 -> 40:24.520] does that drive you towards self-improvement as well?
[40:24.520 -> 40:26.000] Do you start asking yourself questions? Yeah, 100%, yeah. y gall y chwaraewr yno wneud yn well? A yw hynny'n ymdrechu i'ch gwella'n eu hunain? A ydych chi'n dechrau gofyn eich hunain?
[40:26.000 -> 40:28.000] Cwestiynau?
[40:28.000 -> 40:30.000] Ie, 100%, ie.
[40:30.000 -> 40:32.000] Ac mae'r chwaraewr mwyaf yn ymwneud â chi
[40:32.000 -> 40:34.000] yn y rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau,
[40:34.000 -> 40:36.000] yn y rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau,
[40:36.000 -> 40:38.000] yna maen nhw'n y rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau
[40:38.000 -> 40:40.000] a'r rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau
[40:40.000 -> 40:42.000] a'r rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau
[40:42.000 -> 40:44.000] a'r rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau
[40:44.000 -> 40:48.540] a'r rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau a'r rhan fwyaf o'ch heriau that I look towards in terms of feedback as well and I have to say Owen Farrell is the one person who's probably challenged me the most.
[40:48.540 -> 40:50.260] Can you give us some details on that?
[40:50.260 -> 40:55.580] Well yeah look, I mean apart from running shouting battles during high-intensity
[40:55.580 -> 41:00.220] sessions, like I can't get much worse as a terms of an on-field relationship and
[41:00.220 -> 41:05.120] yet he during those times he believed that we were properly communicating.
[41:05.120 -> 41:10.720] And I'll see him afterwards and sometimes he was so emotive, he couldn't speak.
[41:10.720 -> 41:15.280] And yet, you know, we'll just stand by him whilst he was taking his kicks and slowly
[41:15.280 -> 41:20.960] he'd open up and he'd share his frustrations and I'd fashion that around how we can manage
[41:20.960 -> 41:27.960] the session better, I'd feed back to the coaches, he struggled at the time to communicate that with him and said, look, we can manage the session better, I'd feed back to the coaches who struggled at the time to communicate that with him and said,
[41:27.960 -> 41:29.740] look, we can probably do this better.
[41:29.740 -> 41:32.220] So again, that's the kind of hot debriefing.
[41:32.220 -> 41:37.220] You generally get most of the fractious conversations
[41:37.660 -> 41:41.840] most of those really high intensity training days.
[41:41.840 -> 41:50.120] And then another different example is Matt Stevens. Stevens he come into the scene like a senior prop who didn't want to scrum and
[41:50.120 -> 41:54.880] if you want to get better at scrummaging not everyone else wanted to scrum then
[41:54.880 -> 42:00.760] he had to scrum so it was a weekly a weekly motivational conversation we had
[42:00.760 -> 42:06.760] around how we do it for everyone else and he did, he did do it begrudgingly.
[42:06.760 -> 42:10.680] But it is, again it just comes down to those conversations, I know I make it sound simple
[42:10.680 -> 42:15.520] because the conversations aren't simple, they're quite taxing at times but I think they're
[42:15.520 -> 42:20.480] necessary like when people say, you've just got to do it, I don't agree with that, they
[42:20.480 -> 42:26.000] would just do it if you told them to but I don't want them to do it just because I told Byddai'n gwneud hynny, os ydych chi wedi'i ddweud. Ond dwi ddim eisiau iddyn nhw wneud hynny, dim ond oherwydd dwi wedi'i ddweud.
[42:26.000 -> 42:28.000] Dwi eisiau iddyn nhw wneud hynny oherwydd maen nhw eisiau ei wneud.
[42:28.000 -> 42:34.000] Ac yna mae'r cwestiynau a'r cwestiynau eu hunain a'r gwybodaeth o'r peth mwyaf i bawb,
[42:34.000 -> 42:35.000] yn ogystal â'u hunain.
[42:35.000 -> 42:39.000] Rwy'n credu bod un o'r aspectau mwyaf o'ch leolyddiaeth sy'n fy nodi'n ddiddorol, Alex,
[42:39.000 -> 42:46.000] yw eich mhoblth o fynd allan o'r rygbi i ddysgu am y rygbi, i ddysgu am eich gwaith.
[42:46.000 -> 42:52.000] A oes gennych chi'n dweud wrthym y meysydd rydych chi wedi mynd i allan o'r rygbi sydd eich wedi'i ddysgu y mwyaf
[42:52.000 -> 42:55.000] a rydych chi wedi'i gallu ei ddefnyddio yn ôl yn eich byd?
[42:55.000 -> 43:01.000] Wel, mae yna nifer o meysydd sydd wedi cael eithaf fwy o ddiddorol.
[43:01.000 -> 43:06.000] Yn y cyfan, roedd y amser a ddod o hyd i Covid gy start of COVID with Melbourne Storm,
[43:06.000 -> 43:11.000] with Richmond AFL, the Crusaders, obviously they're still in the sport.
[43:11.000 -> 43:15.000] Those three being three of the biggest teams in Ante Bedin sport
[43:15.000 -> 43:20.000] with the best record over time, which is what we're circling back to, right?
[43:20.000 -> 43:23.000] The start is how do you create a high-performing team
[43:23.000 -> 43:27.600] and how do you make that team resilient so they're able to do it time after time after time. These guys
[43:27.600 -> 43:35.320] have and do. And we wanted to compare that to Saracen's at the time and we found that
[43:35.320 -> 43:39.240] the fingerprint for success was pretty similar across all the organisations, bar the one
[43:39.240 -> 43:44.080] thing that we're talking about, which is the mental aspects of the game. Then there's the
[43:44.080 -> 43:48.920] people that, I guess, the constant conversations of people whose counsel I do trust and
[43:48.920 -> 43:52.960] there's loads of them like people say you've got mentors, who's your mentor?
[43:52.960 -> 43:57.520] Everyone needs a mentor and I don't really have mentors, I've got mates, I've got mates
[43:57.520 -> 44:01.200] who I love talking to and it's not official so but I do I do have a lot of
[44:01.200 -> 44:07.880] conversations and Mark McCall's one of them like spoke to him for an hour the other day on the phone and talked about all things life
[44:07.880 -> 44:10.080] and rugby, which is brilliant, isn't it?
[44:10.080 -> 44:15.520] Because I don't know any two DORs or two different clubs in the same competition that have that
[44:15.520 -> 44:16.520] relationship.
[44:16.520 -> 44:20.880] I've got my old coach from school who comes to watch every home game, Brian Gornall, who's
[44:20.880 -> 44:21.880] a ledge.
[44:21.880 -> 44:25.680] Sports hikes, Callum Clarke, who's doing a bit.
[44:25.680 -> 44:27.600] He's going to move out to Dallas, I think,
[44:27.600 -> 44:30.520] for the MRL, start him up out there.
[44:30.520 -> 44:32.080] Speak to him when I can.
[44:32.080 -> 44:34.720] How do you choose who does or who doesn't
[44:34.720 -> 44:36.840] get the opportunity to provide feedback?
[44:36.840 -> 44:40.200] I think it's in context of what the problem I have,
[44:40.200 -> 44:42.120] the issue I have at the time.
[44:42.120 -> 44:46.480] It depends on whether it's more emotional support or advice that I need, or if it's purely a problem Mae'r broblem yma, ac mae'n depend ar y cyfansoddau, neu'r adborthau sydd eu hangen arni,
[44:46.480 -> 44:49.520] neu os yw'n brosiect ddiddorol o fod yn DU
[44:49.520 -> 44:51.520] a phroblemau sydd wedi'u gwneud i mi.
[44:51.520 -> 44:55.280] Felly os oedd un peth y gafodd chi ddysgu ar y datblygu
[44:55.280 -> 44:57.280] o'r siwriau mentale o'r gêm
[44:57.280 -> 44:59.280] y gallai'r rhedegau ddeall a'u defnyddio
[44:59.280 -> 45:01.280] yn eu prif ddrasgol,
[45:01.280 -> 45:03.280] yn ogystal â'u diwydiant,
[45:03.280 -> 45:06.000] beth oedd y peth gwych y gafodd chi'n ei ddod o'ch
[45:06.000 -> 45:08.000] ymchwil, Alex?
[45:08.000 -> 45:26.040] Ymweld â'r gwybodaeth. I'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r fford they are as a team, what they get energy from, you know, if you bring it back down to feelings in a game,
[45:26.040 -> 45:28.080] when did you feel like you were in that flow state?
[45:28.080 -> 45:29.880] When did you feel like you were under it?
[45:29.880 -> 45:32.840] Seeing how that aligns all of them individually
[45:32.840 -> 45:34.680] and how the team felt at that point in time.
[45:34.680 -> 45:38.000] So yeah, it comes back down to, you know,
[45:38.000 -> 45:40.920] those conversations where you feel psychologically safe
[45:40.920 -> 45:43.800] to say, actually, no, I was stressed out,
[45:43.800 -> 45:46.420] or yeah, I was under it, I was shouting,
[45:46.420 -> 45:47.840] I was saying the wrong things,
[45:47.840 -> 45:48.840] I was thinking the wrong thing
[45:48.840 -> 45:51.760] because I was in a bad place in terms of my emotions.
[45:51.760 -> 45:53.760] To be able to say that and be that vulnerable
[45:53.760 -> 45:56.680] post the game, I think is brilliant and crucial
[45:56.680 -> 45:59.160] and a good value to have.
[45:59.160 -> 46:01.560] And before we move on to our quickfire questions,
[46:01.560 -> 46:04.240] which is how we always end these episodes, Alex,
[46:06.580 -> 46:10.740] I had a message from a teacher on Instagram a couple of days ago, and I'd love to share it with you. He
[46:10.740 -> 46:15.500] said to me, I listened to all of these amazing leaders and these inspiring entrepreneurs
[46:15.500 -> 46:21.420] and these CEOs and these artists and actors, and they all talk about exactly the kind of
[46:21.420 -> 46:27.680] things that we've been discussing for the last hour. He said, but when you're a teacher, you don't get to handpick the very best
[46:27.680 -> 46:31.000] thinkers, leaders, sports stars, colleagues.
[46:31.000 -> 46:32.200] You get what you're given.
[46:32.200 -> 46:36.200] He said, I'd love you to just ask the people when they join you on your podcast,
[46:36.200 -> 46:40.280] how do you get to the kids that don't want to be got to at that time?
[46:40.280 -> 46:43.080] Is there anything that you've learned that you think maybe might be useful for
[46:43.080 -> 46:48.500] teachers to hear about getting to the children that are never going to be in the Deep Blue crew?
[46:48.500 -> 46:51.300] They're just, they haven't got there yet.
[46:51.300 -> 46:58.900] Well, the Deep Blue crew, these are the guys that weren't necessarily, aren't our apex players.
[46:58.900 -> 47:00.200] These aren't, they aren't our leaders.
[47:00.200 -> 47:07.880] These are, to some degree, some of them, those lost kids. I've given them, I feel, I've to give all of them,
[47:07.880 -> 47:09.880] each in a way, a sense of belonging.
[47:09.880 -> 47:11.160] That's definitely it.
[47:11.160 -> 47:13.800] How, where do they belong within the team
[47:13.800 -> 47:15.240] and the environment?
[47:15.240 -> 47:18.120] To get that sense of self-worth,
[47:18.120 -> 47:19.200] so they're coming in every day
[47:19.200 -> 47:21.160] and they're loving the process,
[47:21.160 -> 47:24.840] they're loving the task of what they're doing.
[47:24.840 -> 47:25.160] And it doesn't really matter what that task is, is it? the love in the process, the love in the task of what they're doing.
[47:25.160 -> 47:27.000] And it doesn't really matter what that task is, is it?
[47:27.000 -> 47:30.160] Because I don't understand how some front rowers
[47:30.160 -> 47:32.360] do really enjoy mauling and scrummaging.
[47:32.360 -> 47:34.320] Like it's brutal, but they do.
[47:34.320 -> 47:37.560] I would say, as long as they've got food and shelter
[47:37.560 -> 47:40.800] and they're secure in terms of, for us it's contracts,
[47:40.800 -> 47:42.600] but the kids at school,
[47:42.600 -> 47:47.280] thereafter it is about social belonging.
[47:44.800 -> 47:49.600] Once you've got that social belonging you can
[47:47.280 -> 47:52.000] move up the ladder and get your esteem
[47:49.600 -> 47:54.280] needs and maybe get to some kind
[47:52.000 -> 47:56.680] of legacy and transcendency but at that
[47:54.280 -> 47:59.440] point if they feel like they
[47:56.680 -> 48:01.600] belong, they've got a purpose and they
[47:59.440 -> 48:02.880] have that day-to-day self-worth then you're
[48:01.600 -> 48:04.440] gonna get the most out of them.
[48:02.880 -> 48:06.080] That's probably all of them but
[48:04.440 -> 48:06.000] certainly those lads in the past where a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn, a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn, a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:06.000 -> 48:08.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:08.000 -> 48:10.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:10.000 -> 48:12.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:12.000 -> 48:14.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:14.000 -> 48:16.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:16.000 -> 48:18.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:18.000 -> 48:20.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:20.000 -> 48:22.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:22.000 -> 48:24.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn,
[48:24.000 -> 48:25.000] a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn, a'r rhai sy'n gweithio i mewn i mewn, your three non-negotiables when it comes to leading?
[48:25.000 -> 48:27.880] You see, walk into a place and all our conversations
[48:27.880 -> 48:30.320] are about, what kind of team are we?
[48:30.320 -> 48:33.140] But you have to put yourself out there as well, don't you?
[48:33.140 -> 48:35.960] You put yourself out there and to some degree,
[48:35.960 -> 48:37.280] they're either gonna identify with it
[48:37.280 -> 48:40.560] or incorporate what my kind of values were,
[48:40.560 -> 48:43.600] what I was about going into this new job.
[48:43.600 -> 48:47.280] And that's pretty fresh, so I can tell you what I said to the lads at the time.
[48:47.280 -> 48:49.360] Which was, yeah, which was first thing, honesty.
[48:49.360 -> 48:52.320] And I know that's a big one that a lot of people have talked about.
[48:52.320 -> 48:54.720] And honesty means trust and trust takes time.
[48:54.720 -> 48:58.880] That's what we're after, to be able to have those honest conversations,
[48:58.880 -> 49:00.720] to be able to be honest with yourself.
[49:00.720 -> 49:09.000] The second one was hard work, because no one has ever achieved anything truly memorable or lasting without working up. It's just up there.
[49:09.000 -> 49:12.880] You've got to graft. Everyone knows that. But the third thing, and I think I said
[49:12.880 -> 49:18.000] fun at the time, so we've got to have fun. Enjoyment is a better adjective than fun
[49:18.000 -> 49:22.720] because fun, you can automatically think happy-clappy, can't you? You can think, oh,
[49:22.720 -> 49:28.080] whistles and bells and everyone's having a good time and back slapping and that might be part of it for some. They might need
[49:28.080 -> 49:33.680] to come in and see the mates and have a cuddle, you know what I mean? That's fine. But enjoyment,
[49:34.560 -> 49:39.360] like properly enjoying it, is something different. It's not just about enjoying the triumphs as I
[49:39.360 -> 49:43.200] said, it's about enjoying the struggle. You've got to enjoy the fight. You've got to love both
[49:43.200 -> 49:45.480] sides of the coin equally.
[49:45.480 -> 49:50.740] Let's make sure we enjoy it day to day, because those fleeting moments of exhilaration you
[49:50.740 -> 49:55.520] get when winning a cup are just that, the fleeting. But if you can enjoy the process,
[49:55.520 -> 50:01.480] a la King Siphisus, you know, that old Greek, sailor, the king, you got punished by Zeus
[50:01.480 -> 50:26.280] to push the rock up the hill. If you can enjoy the arduous task of pushing that rock up the hill day after day, then you're gonna be in a good place. y rhaid i chi ddod o'r ffordd i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r rhaid i'r my sister and my grandma, that was it, you know, since forever. And she, she was incredible woman, my grandma.
[50:26.280 -> 50:30.720] She was an acrobat and her husband was an Olympic diver.
[50:31.400 -> 50:34.520] And she drove trucks during the war, the first world war.
[50:34.520 -> 50:38.520] And that, so she was, as I said, matriarchal family.
[50:38.520 -> 50:43.640] She's someone who kind of crafted my mom, who crafted me to be the person I am.
[50:43.640 -> 50:44.880] And I'm grateful for that.
[50:44.120 -> 50:45.840] Crafted my mum, he crafted me to be the person I am. I'm grateful for that.
[50:45.840 -> 50:48.720] And I didn't spend enough time with her
[50:48.720 -> 50:52.440] when she was really ill towards the end.
[50:52.440 -> 50:56.200] I was into the rugby, I was into what I was doing
[50:56.200 -> 50:58.880] and I haven't answered that question.
[50:58.880 -> 51:01.840] I haven't answered or given that answer ever before
[51:01.840 -> 51:03.520] in light of a question like that.
[51:03.520 -> 51:07.920] But I would, I would, I'd take more time, I'd spend a bit more time next to her.
[51:07.920 -> 51:13.760] Thank you for sharing that with us, yeah. You're clearly well read and this is a difficult
[51:13.760 -> 51:19.280] one for someone that likes to read. If you could share one book specifically on leadership
[51:19.280 -> 51:30.640] with the people listening to this podcast, which one leaps out straight away? Phil Clark, Wigan legend, now he commentates and presents, doesn't he? I broke my neck basically,
[51:30.640 -> 51:36.720] 19, and I'm in the hospital and it was his brother who did a bit of work with us at
[51:36.720 -> 51:42.560] SAIL. His brother's a good lad as well, Andy, and he'd come in with a book, which I still have,
[51:42.560 -> 51:48.680] and I bought numerous times and I've given to players along the way because it really helped me at that point in
[51:48.680 -> 51:52.600] time being someone and so well-bent on having it and having it now you know
[51:52.600 -> 51:57.520] what I mean and it's called Thinking Body Dancing Mind by someone called
[51:57.520 -> 52:02.960] Chung Yilung Al Hung. So you have to look that one up but it's basically the
[52:02.960 -> 52:08.000] Taoism of sport you know know, the Eastern philosophies
[52:08.000 -> 52:10.560] over or against the Western philosophies.
[52:10.560 -> 52:12.880] The Eastern philosophies of vulnerability
[52:12.880 -> 52:15.600] and accepting failure as part of the journey
[52:16.560 -> 52:20.280] versus the need and want to win,
[52:20.280 -> 52:24.680] which for me can destroy you
[52:24.680 -> 52:45.400] as a person and a player at an early age. Mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n that it was a bit of a journey. What would you like your leadership legacy to be?
[52:45.400 -> 52:48.800] I want relationships that I have with some of my coaches.
[52:48.800 -> 52:49.880] I'd love that.
[52:49.880 -> 52:50.720] I had a great night Saturday,
[52:50.720 -> 52:52.560] just told you I've been out on the social.
[52:52.560 -> 52:53.960] I'm half into it.
[52:55.040 -> 52:57.200] And we're out with all the cell lads.
[52:57.200 -> 53:01.120] And in the same place, Alex Lewington's having a stag do,
[53:01.120 -> 53:04.440] dressed up as a woman with Velcro tennis balls on his head.
[53:04.440 -> 53:08.400] And like he's there with his mates and he's, he's been on it all day and
[53:08.400 -> 53:13.120] he'd been on the night before, but all the Cyrus lads came up and I'd have
[53:13.120 -> 53:14.480] cut up with them and had a chat with them.
[53:14.880 -> 53:15.880] And I just thought, Oh, good.
[53:15.880 -> 53:18.960] Is that it gave me a really warm feeling inside knowing that I've got a
[53:18.960 -> 53:23.560] relationship that's stood the test of a year at least, but certainly
[53:23.560 -> 53:26.280] there's going to be there moving forward.
[53:26.280 -> 53:31.280] So to be able to speak to those people post the game,
[53:32.360 -> 53:35.360] to enjoy some of the things that they're going to enjoy
[53:35.360 -> 53:37.080] later in life, because I've got a good relationship
[53:37.080 -> 53:39.440] with them, I think that's the best legacy
[53:39.440 -> 53:40.560] someone could hope for.
[53:40.560 -> 53:44.520] And finally, from you, Alex,
[53:44.520 -> 53:48.320] your one gold rule to leading a high performance life.
[53:48.320 -> 53:50.680] This is, I guess, your one final message
[53:50.680 -> 53:53.920] for our listeners on this podcast.
[53:53.920 -> 53:57.480] I think you've got to live those values that you preach.
[53:57.480 -> 53:59.040] You've got to live by them.
[53:59.040 -> 54:01.680] Everyone knows that to get on in the game,
[54:01.680 -> 54:03.760] it's gotta be your vocation.
[54:03.760 -> 54:04.760] It has to be.
[54:04.760 -> 54:06.560] Too often, people people I think pick
[54:06.560 -> 54:13.120] up those values and principles when you get to the club and leave them when you get in
[54:13.120 -> 54:16.880] the car at the end of the day and I don't think that works over time.
[54:16.880 -> 54:17.880] Brilliant.
[54:17.880 -> 54:24.440] It's Amien, Chegg, what a deep thinker.
[54:24.440 -> 54:25.280] Yeah, incredibly deep. I think it was a real pleasure wasn't it because I think the diversity Ie, yn anhygoel. Rwy'n credu... Roedd hwn yn ddiddorol iawn, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod y cyfansodd o gyfansoddau
[54:25.280 -> 54:28.640] y gofyn Alex i siarad amdano,
[54:28.640 -> 54:31.440] o ran ei ddysgu, a oedd hwn yn soldiersyddion gynhwysol,
[54:31.440 -> 54:34.880] a oedd yn mynd i'r byd corporeg,
[54:34.880 -> 54:36.960] a oedd ei bywyd yn Taversons.
[54:36.960 -> 54:39.360] Rwy'n credu ei fod yn dyn sy'n mynd i unrhyw sefyllfa
[54:39.360 -> 54:41.600] ac yn edrych ar yr hyn y gallwch chi ddysgu o'i gilydd.
[54:41.600 -> 54:43.600] Mae'r ddiddorol hwnnw'n llwyr.
[54:43.600 -> 54:45.760] Mae'n ddyd yn Saversons, rwy'n credu ei fod yn dyn sy'n mynd i unrhyw sefyllfa
[54:45.760 -> 54:50.240] ac yn edrych i weld yr hyn y gallwch chi ddysgu o'i gilydd. Roedd y cwriosi yn ddiogel.
[54:50.240 -> 54:54.080] Roeddwn yn ddiddorol ddiddorol o ffynediad y sgwrnodd am
[54:54.080 -> 54:56.960] safbwyntau psychologaidd, ac rwy'n credu,
[54:56.960 -> 55:01.520] ar gyfer mwy o blynyddoedd, mae'r chwaraeon wedi cael ei dynnu gan ddifrifolwg masculinol,
[55:01.520 -> 55:08.240] nid yw? Ac rwy'n dweud nad yw e ddim yn chi ffwrdd o'i gweithio, quite toxic masculinity, hasn't it? And I'm not saying that he never shouts or balls or shares quite bluntly how he feels about a performance
[55:08.240 -> 55:10.520] or someone's effort in training,
[55:10.520 -> 55:15.520] but I certainly really feel that he is at the cutting edge
[55:15.640 -> 55:20.280] of the power of empathy and understanding
[55:20.280 -> 55:23.440] and offering psychological safety and being vulnerable.
[55:23.440 -> 55:25.000] But did you notice every time he spoke about it, he still said, well, you know, we've got a long way to go. a chael ymddygiadau psychologaidd a bod yn anodd. Ond, a oeddech chi'n sylwio, bob tro rydyn ni'n siarad amdano,
[55:25.000 -> 55:27.000] mae'n dweud, wel, rydyn ni'n cael ymddygiadau llawn i'w gyrraedd.
[55:27.000 -> 55:29.000] Rwy'n credu, mae'r ymddygiad fel y byd
[55:29.000 -> 55:32.000] yn cael llawer o ffwrdd i gael gyda rhywun fel Alex.
[55:32.000 -> 55:33.000] Ie, yn enwedig.
[55:33.000 -> 55:35.000] Rwy'n cofio, llawer o flynyddoedd yn ôl,
[55:35.000 -> 55:40.000] yn mynd i weithio gyda thîm yn y Gallegar Premiership,
[55:40.000 -> 55:42.000] ac rwy'n gofyn iddyn nhw y cwestiwn o
[55:42.000 -> 55:44.000] sut oeddent yn ymwneud ag eich succes
[55:44.000 -> 55:48.960] o'r fath o'r sgiliau hawr o' maen nhw'n ffynedig a'u gweithio'n dda
[55:48.960 -> 55:52.800] ac o'r cymaint o'r sgiliau hawr o'r sgiliau hawr, fel y dywedodd Alex o'r
[55:52.800 -> 55:57.280] cohesion, y confideniaeth, y cyfathrebu. Ac rydw i'n gweithio gyda'r tîm hon,
[55:57.280 -> 56:03.440] rydw i'n ymddangos 30% o'r sgiliau hawr, 70% o'r hyn yr oedd Alex wedi'i dweud o'r elementau hawdd.
[56:04.080 -> 56:05.920] Felly, y cwestiwn rydyn ni'n ei gofyn ymlaen oedd, well, pa mor amser rydych chi'n ei chael i ddatbly o'r hyn y dywedodd Alex, o'r elemenau'n llair. Felly, y cwestiwn rydyn ni'n gofyn ar ôl oedd,
[56:05.920 -> 56:10.880] pa mor amser rydyn ni'n rhoi ar y pethau llair? Ac roedd y realiaeth, roedd yn dal,
[56:10.880 -> 56:15.440] efallai dros y blwyfyr o flwyddyn, yn llai na 10% o'i gilydd, ac yn y blynyddoedd, roedd yn dweud
[56:15.440 -> 56:19.360] 70% o'n cyfansoddiad yn dod o'i gilydd, ac yn y blynyddoedd, rydyn ni'n gweithio'n ymwneud â
[56:19.360 -> 56:24.160] dim amser arno. Ac dyna pam rwy'n credu yr hyn y mae Alex yn dweud, mae'n wir yn
[56:24.160 -> 56:28.960] cymryd cymryd, rwy'n credu ei fod yn gael y gofod i fynd allan y rwyfion hynny, ac dyna'r cyfansoddau. Dyna pam rwy'n credu y bydd Alex yn dweud, mae'n bwysig iawn, rwy'n credu ei fod yn gallu mynd allan y rhai arall. Dyna lle nid ydym yn
[56:28.960 -> 56:32.960] ymwneud â gynhyrchion ffyrdd. Rydym yn ymwneud â phentyn o leipiau sy'n canolbwyntio
[56:32.960 -> 56:36.880] i'r tîm a oedd yn ddysgu am ymwneud â chyfrifoldeb.
[56:36.880 -> 56:40.800] Ond rydyn ni hefyd yn siarad am phentyn o leipiau, a ydych chi ddim yn gallu gyrraedd,
[56:40.800 -> 56:46.000] a phentyn o bryd ddim yn gallu cyfrifoldeb. Felly yr hyn rwy'n ei ddarlun o Alex yw bod and B, often you can't quantify. So what I love from Alex is there is a real trust
[56:46.000 -> 56:50.840] there that he might not be able to see day to day on a spreadsheet or on a
[56:50.840 -> 56:55.960] league table exactly what these conversations are doing for the team and
[56:55.960 -> 57:00.400] the club but he still understands that there is a power there and I think that
[57:00.400 -> 57:07.560] takes trust, it takes bravery, it takes patience and it takes that from the whole organisation not just from one person and they, let's remember they Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n cymryd gwybodaeth, mae'n cymryd gwaith, mae'n cymryd gwybodaeth ac mae'n cymryd hynny o'r whole organisation, nid dim ond o un person.
[57:07.560 -> 57:09.640] Ac gadewch i chi cofio, maen nhw'n gweithio mewn byd
[57:09.640 -> 57:12.200] lle'n normol, y gwyn a'r gwyr yw absolutely crystal clear
[57:12.200 -> 57:14.440] achos dyma'r pwyntiau neu dyma'r pwyntiau.
[57:14.440 -> 57:16.440] Ie, ond mae'n llawer o ddewis, Jake.
[57:16.440 -> 57:25.280] Dwi'n mynd i'r archifau o'n gwaith a roedden ni'n ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r ffordd i ddod o'r fford'n ddiddorol iawn i dduradu'r amser hwnnw gyda Sia Khaleesi, y kapten o'r team South African Rugby Union,
[57:25.280 -> 57:27.160] lle ddweud y gwaith oedd,
[57:27.160 -> 57:29.160] dwi'n byw ar ein teimlad,
[57:29.160 -> 57:30.800] ond dwi'n byw ar ein teimlad.
[57:30.800 -> 57:32.400] Felly, maen nhw'n ymdrechu ar y sylfaen
[57:32.400 -> 57:34.960] o ddatblygu'r ymdrechion ddifroeddol
[57:34.960 -> 57:36.200] yng nghanolbwyswyr,
[57:36.200 -> 57:37.840] lle maen nhw'n ganddo gwybod eich un
[57:37.840 -> 57:38.880] fel bobl,
[57:38.880 -> 57:40.400] nid dim ond fel collegaoedd
[57:40.400 -> 57:41.840] sy'n dweud yr un ddau.
[57:41.840 -> 57:43.280] Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny
[57:43.280 -> 57:44.560] yn y sefydliad clwb,
[57:44.560 -> 58:06.000] yr hyn yr Alex yw'n ceisio ddatblygu. Mae'n ddiddorol iawn. Rwy'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud, mae'n dweud,orol, ond roedd e'n dweud, mae'n ddiddorol,
[58:06.000 -> 58:08.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:08.000 -> 58:10.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:10.000 -> 58:12.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:12.000 -> 58:14.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:14.000 -> 58:16.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:16.000 -> 58:18.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:18.000 -> 58:20.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:20.000 -> 58:22.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:22.000 -> 58:24.000] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol,
[58:24.000 -> 58:28.540] ond roedd e'n ddiddorol, ond roedd e'n ddiddorol, So there we go, a cool conversation with a cool guy who's making a genuine difference. Thank you so much for joining us for our second episode from the
[58:28.540 -> 58:32.200] Gallagher Leadership Series. You can also find a Rob Baxter's episode, that was
[58:32.200 -> 58:36.040] episode one, just take a look in the High Performance Back catalogue. But you know
[58:36.040 -> 58:39.020] what I really want you to do right now, if you've listened to this and you've
[58:39.020 -> 58:43.100] picked up some stuff that's had an impact with you, please share it. And I
[58:43.100 -> 58:45.880] don't want you to share it for our I don't want you to share it for our
[58:44.160 -> 58:47.080] benefit, I want you to share it for the
[58:45.880 -> 58:49.000] benefit of your friends and your family.
[58:47.080 -> 58:51.080] And you know what, for the benefit of
[58:49.000 -> 58:53.400] someone you don't know and you may never
[58:51.080 -> 58:55.560] even meet, just, you know, I don't know, pop
[58:53.400 -> 58:57.560] a review on your Instagram, tweet it,
[58:55.560 -> 58:59.600] put it in a WhatsApp group, mention it to
[58:57.560 -> 59:01.720] a colleague at work. If you can subscribe
[58:59.600 -> 59:03.520] to the podcast or rate the podcast, that
[59:01.720 -> 59:05.920] also helps us to reach more people because
[59:03.520 -> 59:08.400] of the way the algorithms work. But I just want us to spread some of this good stuff in
[59:08.400 -> 59:12.480] a world of negativity. There will always be cynics that look at this kind of
[59:12.480 -> 59:17.080] podcast and wonder what it's all about but you and I both know what it's all
[59:17.080 -> 59:22.080] about. It's just about putting out good stuff in the world and I'm telling you
[59:22.080 -> 59:25.280] now when you put out good stuff, good stuff comes back
[59:25.280 -> 59:30.040] to you. So thank you so much for coming along with an open mind and for sharing this with
[59:30.040 -> 59:36.500] us today. Thanks as well to the entire team, Will, Hannah, Eve, Gemma and Finn Ryan from
[59:36.500 -> 59:41.540] Rethink Audio. Remember, there is no secret, it is all there for you. So be your own biggest
[59:41.540 -> 59:49.520] cheerleader and make world-class basics your calling card. So there you have it, the coming together of two really cool
[59:49.520 -> 59:52.960] brands to create the Gallagher Leadership Series with the High
[59:52.960 -> 59:57.740] Performance Podcast. And as well as this, Gallagher also recognised that leading a
[59:57.740 -> 01:00:01.280] business, being a leader, can actually be a really intense and isolating job
[01:00:01.280 -> 01:00:04.800] especially over the last couple of years. Loads of important and difficult
[01:00:04.800 -> 01:00:09.940] decisions, plus often the ultimate success of an entire organisation resting
[01:00:09.940 -> 01:00:15.280] on one individual's shoulders. And that same pressure is experienced so often by leaders
[01:00:15.280 -> 01:00:21.760] in elite rugby. And it's for that reason that Galaga have created the Galaga Leaders' Trust,
[01:00:21.760 -> 01:00:25.040] which is a mentoring network for directors of rugby and head coaches
[01:00:25.040 -> 01:00:30.880] across 13 premiership rugby clubs. Gallagher know that to perform at the highest level,
[01:00:30.880 -> 01:00:34.920] business leaders need a strong network of trusted advisors to help tackle the load of
[01:00:34.920 -> 01:00:39.720] leadership. And that's why this season, as proud title partner of premiership rugby,
[01:00:39.720 -> 01:00:50.000] Gallagher has launched this campaign which recognises it can be tough at the top, aiming to help leaders across business and rugby excel and perform at their very best.
[01:00:50.000 -> 01:00:54.080] Gallagher, thank you so much for partnering with us here at the High Performance Podcast.
[01:00:54.080 -> None] I know that these conversations are going to help so many people. you