Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 01:00:24 GMT
Duration:
1:19:05
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Anthony Taylor is a current professional football referee. He has been a member of the Select Group of referees since the 2010/11 season, who officiate primarily in the Premier League.
Anthony has been chosen to referee the FA Cup Final, League Cup Final, Play-Off Final and the UEFA Nations League Final. But before football, Anthony's first career was as a prison officer at a category A jail.
On 12 June 2021, Anthony was the referee for the EURO 2020 group stage match between Finland and Denmark when Danish midfielder Christian Eriksen collapsed on the pitch and required emergency treatment before being transferred to a local hospital and stabilised.
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### Summary of the Podcast Episode ###
**Key Points:**
* Anthony Taylor is a current professional football referee and a member of the Select Group of referees who officiate primarily in the Premier League.
* Taylor has been chosen to referee several high-profile matches, including the FA Cup Final, League Cup Final, Play-Off Final, and the UEFA Nations League Final.
* Before becoming a referee, Taylor worked as a prison officer at a category A jail.
* Taylor was the referee for the Euro 2020 group stage match between Finland and Denmark, where Danish midfielder Christian Eriksen collapsed on the pitch and required emergency treatment.
* Taylor's background in the prison service and his personal experiences have shaped his approach to refereeing and his ability to handle high-pressure situations.
* Taylor believes that referees should be allowed to communicate with the media after games to explain their decision-making process and share their perspectives.
* Taylor emphasizes the need for better education and understanding of the challenges and complexities of refereeing among fans, media, and players.
* The use of technology in refereeing, such as VAR, has been a topic of debate, with Taylor acknowledging both its benefits and limitations.
* Taylor stresses the importance of referees focusing on the game and avoiding external influences, such as crowd noise, media comments, or team tactics.
**Overall Message:**
The episode highlights the demanding and often challenging role of football referees, shedding light on the complexities of decision-making, the pressures they face, and the importance of empathy and understanding from fans, media, and players. It also emphasizes the need for ongoing communication and education to improve the overall perception and appreciation of referees' contributions to the game.
**Navigating the Complexities of Refereeing in the High-Stakes World of Football: A Conversation with Anthony Taylor**
Anthony Taylor, a seasoned professional football referee, offers a captivating insight into the intricate world of refereeing, sharing his experiences, challenges, and strategies for navigating the high-stakes environment of the sport.
**Key Points:**
1. **Building Relationships with Players:** Taylor emphasizes the significance of establishing rapport with players, acknowledging that humanizing referees helps foster acceptance of their decisions. He engages in squad visits and utilizes humor to create a positive atmosphere, encouraging players to understand the parameters and expectations of the game.
2. **Interpreting the Game's Nuances:** Refereeing decisions are made in a split second, considering various factors such as the speed and intensity of the play, the positioning of players, and the application of the competition's guidelines. Taylor highlights the need to filter through the noise of players' reactions, assistant referees' opinions, and VAR involvement to make informed and accurate calls.
3. **Embracing Technology:** Taylor acknowledges the role of VAR in enhancing the accuracy of decisions, emphasizing the importance of establishing clear communication and a collaborative approach between on-field officials and the VAR team. He stresses the responsibility of referees to rectify errors and embrace technology's role in evolving the sport.
4. **Overcoming Mistakes:** Mistakes are inevitable in refereeing, and Taylor emphasizes the significance of learning from errors to prevent their recurrence. He engages in self-talk and discussions with his team to analyze decisions, identify areas for improvement, and maintain focus on the task at hand.
5. **Resilience and Scrutiny:** Refereeing involves intense scrutiny, with decisions often dissected and analyzed by fans, media, and pundits. Taylor highlights the importance of resilience and the ability to detach from criticism, focusing on self-improvement and maintaining a positive mindset.
6. **Striving for Accuracy:** Despite the attention given to incorrect decisions, Taylor emphasizes that the majority of refereeing calls are accurate. He encourages a balanced perspective, recognizing that a single wrong decision rarely determines the outcome of a match.
7. **Balancing Analysis and Self-Reflection:** Taylor emphasizes the importance of self-analysis to identify areas for improvement, while also acknowledging the need for a balanced approach that focuses on both positive and negative aspects of performance.
8. **The Human Element:** Taylor stresses that refereeing is a human endeavor, and that understanding the emotional investment of fans and players is essential in managing the complexities of the game. He highlights the significance of empathy and communication in resolving conflicts and maintaining a positive atmosphere on the pitch.
**Conclusion:**
Anthony Taylor's insights provide a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and complexities faced by referees in the high-stakes world of football. His emphasis on human connection, resilience, and the pursuit of accuracy offers valuable lessons for anyone seeking to navigate complex decision-making processes and maintain a positive mindset in the face of scrutiny.
**Navigating the Challenges of Officiating: A Conversation with Anthony Taylor**
In this episode, Anthony Taylor, a professional football referee and member of the Select Group of referees, joins the podcast to discuss his journey from prison officer to refereeing some of the biggest matches in the world, including the FA Cup Final, League Cup Final, Play-Off Final, and the UEFA Nations League Final.
Taylor emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding among referees, fans, and players, highlighting the need for more tolerance and less opinionated criticism. He believes that referees should be allowed to share their perspectives and decision-making processes to foster greater understanding and reduce the hostility often directed toward them.
The discussion also delves into the mental and emotional challenges faced by referees, the sacrifices they make, and the impact on their families. Taylor stresses the importance of having a strong support system and the need for referees to be resilient and able to learn from their mistakes.
Key themes and insights from the podcast:
1. **Empathy and Understanding:** Taylor emphasizes the importance of empathy and understanding among referees, fans, and players. He believes that referees should be given the opportunity to share their perspectives and decision-making processes to foster greater understanding and reduce hostility.
2. **The Human Side of Refereeing:** The podcast highlights the mental and emotional challenges faced by referees, the sacrifices they make, and the impact on their families. Taylor stresses the importance of having a strong support system and the need for referees to be resilient and able to learn from their mistakes.
3. **Consistency and Fairness:** Taylor acknowledges the importance of consistency in refereeing decisions and the need for fair and impartial officiating. He discusses the challenges of maintaining consistency across different matches and referees, emphasizing the need for ongoing training and development.
4. **The Role of Technology:** The podcast touches on the role of technology in refereeing, including the use of video assistant referees (VAR) and goal-line technology. Taylor shares his thoughts on the benefits and limitations of these technologies and the impact they have had on the game.
5. **High-Performance Mindset:** Taylor shares his insights on the mindset and qualities required for high-performance refereeing. He emphasizes the importance of having a strong work ethic, being mentally tough, and constantly striving for improvement.
6. **Legacy and Impact:** Taylor reflects on the legacy he wants to leave as a referee and the impact he hopes to have on the game. He expresses his desire to inspire future referees and to contribute to the overall improvement and development of football refereeing.
Overall, the podcast provides a unique and insightful perspective into the world of refereeing, highlighting the challenges and rewards of this demanding profession. Taylor's thoughtful insights and personal experiences offer valuable lessons for anyone interested in the world of sports officiating and high-performance achievement.
# Anthony Taylor: From Prison Officer to Premier League Referee
Anthony Taylor, a current professional football referee, has officiated primarily in the Premier League since the 2010/11 season. He has been selected to referee the FA Cup Final, League Cup Final, Play-Off Final, and the UEFA Nations League Final. Before his career in football, Taylor was a prison officer at a category A jail.
On June 12, 2021, Taylor was the referee for the EURO 2020 group stage match between Finland and Denmark, where Danish midfielder Christian Eriksen collapsed on the pitch and required emergency treatment. Eriksen was later transferred to a local hospital and stabilized.
**Key Points:**
1. **Early Life and Career:**
- Anthony Taylor began his career as a prison officer at a category A jail.
- He later transitioned to a career in football refereeing.
2. **Refereeing Achievements:**
- Taylor has been a member of the Select Group of referees since the 2010/11 season.
- He has officiated in prestigious matches such as the FA Cup Final, League Cup Final, Play-Off Final, and the UEFA Nations League Final.
3. **EURO 2020 Incident:**
- Taylor was the referee for the EURO 2020 group stage match between Finland and Denmark.
- During the match, Danish midfielder Christian Eriksen collapsed on the pitch and required emergency treatment.
- Taylor played a crucial role in managing the situation and ensuring Eriksen received prompt medical attention.
4. **Reflective Insights:**
- Taylor emphasizes the importance of focusing on the controllable aspects of refereeing, such as decision-making and communication.
- He highlights the value of seeking feedback and learning from mistakes to improve performance.
- Taylor stresses the significance of maintaining composure and resilience in challenging situations.
5. **Audience Engagement:**
- Taylor encourages listeners to reach out and share their thoughts on the podcast, episodes, and discussions.
- He invites listeners to connect with him and co-host Damien through social media platforms.
6. **Podcast Information:**
- The podcast is available on various platforms, including Instagram and YouTube.
- Listeners can subscribe to the podcast on YouTube to receive notifications for new episodes.
7. **Gratitude and Appreciation:**
- Taylor expresses gratitude to the individuals involved in producing the podcast, including Eve, Hannah, Will, Finn Ryan, Gemma, and others.
8. **Conclusion:**
- Taylor emphasizes the importance of self-belief, maintaining world-class standards, and striving for continuous improvement.
- He bids farewell to the listeners and anticipates future episodes.
[00:00.000 -> 00:07.780] Hey there, welcome along to the High Performance Podcast, our gift to you for free every single
[00:07.780 -> 00:12.780] week and you're in good company because you're listening to the UK's most popular podcast
[00:12.780 -> 00:18.540] and platform among working professionals for real inspiration on how to perform at your
[00:18.540 -> 00:19.540] optimum.
[00:19.540 -> 00:23.980] This podcast turns the lived experiences of the planet's highest performers into your
[00:23.980 -> 00:25.120] life lessons.
[00:30.080 -> 00:35.040] So today allow the greatest leaders, thinkers, sports stars, entrepreneurs and entertainers to be your teachers. Today this is what's in store.
[00:37.520 -> 00:47.600] How do you prepare for standing in front of a TV audience of millions or billions in the split second to say
[00:47.600 -> 00:54.720] actually I've looked at it again I'm wrong. People expect officials to be perfect 100% all the time
[00:54.720 -> 01:00.400] well you're not living in the real world and when we get to the point where technology is introduced
[01:00.400 -> 01:05.720] and those decisions were being made then we've flip-flopped completely the opposite way,
[01:05.720 -> 01:08.160] going, this is now a disaster for the game,
[01:08.160 -> 01:11.120] but 12 months previously, everybody was crying out for it.
[01:11.120 -> 01:15.920] So people still, while still entitled to opinions,
[01:15.920 -> 01:18.480] we still need that balance of, you know,
[01:18.480 -> 01:22.080] you can't ask for one thing and then cry foul
[01:22.080 -> 01:24.460] when it's brought in and people don't like it.
[01:25.920 -> 01:29.680] Yes, mistakes are made and we're far from perfect,
[01:29.680 -> 01:32.720] but there's many other facets that contribute
[01:32.720 -> 01:36.320] to a result of a football match.
[01:36.320 -> 01:38.840] It's a really interesting hour in the company of myself,
[01:38.840 -> 01:40.520] Damien and Anthony Taylor.
[01:41.360 -> 01:43.760] When expecting perfection from anyone,
[01:43.760 -> 01:45.120] you know, you really do have to be
[01:45.120 -> 01:49.080] able to deliver perfection yourself and I'm guilty of this at times in my other
[01:49.080 -> 01:54.280] role as a football presenter. We hold referees to an almost unachievable level
[01:54.280 -> 01:58.240] of perfection. You know Premier League referees are the most abused and
[01:58.240 -> 02:03.920] criticized of any league referees on the planet and a recent survey showed that
[02:03.920 -> 02:09.320] Anthony Taylor was the referee that took the most criticism. But as you'll hear in this conversation he
[02:09.320 -> 02:13.160] is a man who puts himself in the eye of the storm and can cope in the eye of the
[02:13.160 -> 02:16.880] storm because of the mental dexterity that he's built up over years. I'm not
[02:16.880 -> 02:20.320] just talking about years as a referee either I'm talking about years as a son
[02:20.320 -> 02:24.800] and as a parent and as a husband and as someone who worked in the prison service
[02:24.800 -> 02:27.880] and was responsible for the training for restraining prisoners and
[02:27.880 -> 02:31.580] who was responsible for making sure that people who are going through one of the
[02:31.580 -> 02:34.520] most difficult periods in their whole lives were treated with dignity and
[02:34.520 -> 02:39.360] respect and understanding and all that we want really is for you to have an
[02:39.360 -> 02:43.480] understanding of him after today. Look, life is full of flawed people. You and me
[02:43.480 -> 02:48.120] are imperfect. The only person we can change or improve or expect the higher standards from is
[02:48.120 -> 02:51.800] ourselves. We need to stop expecting perfection from others, particularly
[02:51.800 -> 02:56.180] people who are making split-second decisions with the information that we
[02:56.180 -> 03:01.160] don't understand in a scenario that we cannot empathize with. So I really hope
[03:01.160 -> 03:04.440] that you find today an interesting conversation, not really about refereeing
[03:04.440 -> 03:05.500] but more about life.
[03:05.500 -> 03:12.500] And life is an apt comment when it comes to this episode, because Anthony was the referee for the Group B match at Euro 2020,
[03:12.500 -> 03:19.000] when Christian Eriksen, the Denmark and Inter Milan player, collapsed on the pitch in the 42nd minute of that game.
[03:19.000 -> 03:23.500] And it was the years of training that meant that Anthony was able to deal with that situation,
[03:23.500 -> 03:27.180] despite the fact that the emotional overload would have been
[03:27.180 -> 03:32.100] remarkable and that's pretty much where we start today's conversation so thanks
[03:32.100 -> 03:35.100] very much for joining us once again I really hope that you get a lot from
[03:35.100 -> 03:40.040] today's episode of the high-performance podcast and I think if it if it shows us
[03:40.040 -> 03:43.060] anything it's that if we expect perfection from people our whole life
[03:43.060 -> 03:47.800] life will be a series of disappointments grumblings and complaints it's that if we expect perfection from people our whole life, life will be a series of disappointments, grumblings and complaints. It's time for
[03:47.800 -> 03:52.480] less opinion and it's time for more empathy and it starts today with elite
[03:52.480 -> 03:57.440] referee Anthony Taylor on the High Performance Podcast.
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[06:07.000 -> 06:14.440] Well, Anthony, thank you very much for joining us. Welcome along.
[06:14.440 -> 06:15.920] Thanks for having us.
[06:15.920 -> 06:19.720] Let's start with, in your mind, what is high performance?
[06:19.720 -> 06:26.240] Think in my mind, it's about taking yourself outside your comfort zone and trying to achieve
[06:26.240 -> 06:32.000] something which sets you apart from other people in your performance sphere.
[06:32.000 -> 06:37.880] So really having the bravery to try something different or actually not
[06:37.880 -> 06:42.920] having any fear of making that mistake which ultimately you will do at some
[06:42.920 -> 06:46.240] point in time. So is that a mindset that got you to this point?
[06:46.240 -> 06:49.080] Because I think talking about the journey from being a young man
[06:49.080 -> 06:53.280] who had various dreams and ambitions to becoming an elite level referee.
[06:53.480 -> 06:57.000] I think you can you can apply that across not just in sport,
[06:57.000 -> 06:59.040] but just in life in general.
[06:59.040 -> 07:00.680] So I think if you look
[07:01.640 -> 07:06.240] from the fallout of the pandemic, for example, and look how, particularly how my daughters
[07:06.240 -> 07:09.840] have kind of come out of school into college
[07:09.840 -> 07:12.360] and towards university.
[07:12.360 -> 07:14.680] The resilience of a lot of people
[07:14.680 -> 07:17.680] has taken a huge hit in recent years.
[07:17.680 -> 07:21.440] And so people are really fearful of being criticized,
[07:21.440 -> 07:23.320] really fearful of doing,
[07:23.320 -> 07:26.320] are worried about what other people will think.
[07:26.320 -> 07:29.560] And so the more people that are prepared to go outside
[07:29.560 -> 07:32.360] that comfort zone and not have that fear of trying
[07:32.360 -> 07:34.800] something new and something different,
[07:34.800 -> 07:38.000] I think that would ultimately drive more and more people
[07:38.000 -> 07:43.000] to achieve far greater things than they do.
[07:44.120 -> 07:46.880] Can I talk about an incident that is not about football,
[07:46.880 -> 07:50.360] but is a moment where you really had to get it right.
[07:50.360 -> 07:52.200] And it was actually a matter of life and death
[07:52.200 -> 07:54.080] rather than a footballing decision,
[07:54.080 -> 07:56.800] which was the collapse of Christian Eriksen
[07:56.800 -> 07:58.600] when you were in charge of that.
[07:59.520 -> 08:02.640] Can you talk us through the process that you went through
[08:02.640 -> 08:04.800] and how difficult it was because suddenly
[08:05.680 -> 08:08.800] from making constant football decisions on the field of play you're having to deal with
[08:08.800 -> 08:11.400] something quite different?
[08:11.400 -> 08:18.240] I think the most important thing to say about the whole situation was the reason that situation
[08:18.240 -> 08:26.840] was so successfully resolved was because of the Danish captain and the medics that were present on that day. 100%. Because
[08:26.840 -> 08:32.660] the speed at which Christian was treated was a fundamental factor. But from my perspective
[08:32.660 -> 08:41.200] in terms of having to manage the whole scenario meant that really I had to fall back on a
[08:41.200 -> 08:48.000] number of previous experiences outside of football to try and help manage that situation.
[08:48.000 -> 08:52.320] And there were a couple of factors, obviously the wellbeing of Christian was the most important
[08:52.320 -> 08:57.200] thing, the wellbeing of the other players was important, but then also the wellbeing
[08:57.200 -> 09:03.600] of my refereeing team was of equal importance to me. And he won't mind me saying, Gary,
[09:03.600 -> 09:05.160] one of my assistants, he'd
[09:05.160 -> 09:10.320] lost his mother only weeks before we went to the Euros. So that was really a
[09:10.320 -> 09:14.240] real human element to everything that brings everything into perspective.
[09:14.240 -> 09:25.000] And so in those situations it was, it's so important to not make rash and quick decisions,
[09:27.520 -> 09:32.240] and more be guided by how everybody's feeling.
[09:33.760 -> 09:35.640] And how are you feeling?
[09:35.640 -> 09:37.360] Because everything is focused on,
[09:37.360 -> 09:39.600] everybody's asking you what's going on,
[09:39.600 -> 09:42.040] I think you're actually desensitized a little bit
[09:42.040 -> 09:44.880] to any personal emotion,
[09:44.880 -> 09:45.520] because you're
[09:45.520 -> 09:50.240] worried about Christian being okay, you're worried about all the
[09:50.240 -> 09:55.240] other players and you're worried about my guys but then you're also conscious
[09:55.240 -> 09:59.640] that people are going to be coming to you expecting for you to make a
[09:59.640 -> 10:05.400] decision and for you to be the focal point to communicate what's happening.
[10:05.400 -> 10:11.400] And so trying to create as much time as possible to gain information
[10:11.400 -> 10:16.600] and get a sense of how everybody's feeling was the most important thing.
[10:16.600 -> 10:20.600] And what did you, you said you fell back on previous experiences, what were they?
[10:20.600 -> 10:26.720] One of the fundamental factors that drives my work ethic and
[10:26.720 -> 10:31.960] commitment at this level is based on my background in the prison service, that
[10:31.960 -> 10:36.720] kind of structure dealing with those difficult situations and also how
[10:36.720 -> 10:43.640] important life is in terms of people overcoming difficulties and so one of my
[10:43.640 -> 10:45.200] close friends when I worked in the
[10:45.200 -> 10:49.300] prison service he unfortunately killed himself because of depression and so a
[10:49.300 -> 10:54.300] lot of those things, a lot of the feelings and my kind of instilled
[10:54.300 -> 10:59.740] behaviors come from trying to make the most of what's important to you. That is
[10:59.740 -> 11:07.600] why in that situation in Copenhagen I chose to make a very direct link between myself and the players
[11:08.320 -> 11:13.280] when we were trying to reach a decision on what was happening. So yes, we've got lots of protocols
[11:13.280 -> 11:20.080] and procedures in place where security and UEFA people are liaising with me as the match referee,
[11:20.880 -> 11:28.120] but the most important people were Christian and the rest of the players in that situation.
[11:28.120 -> 11:32.700] So I made a conscious effort every step of the way to go into the changing rooms to speak
[11:32.700 -> 11:37.360] directly to the players. So I didn't rely on a go-between like you would normally have.
[11:37.360 -> 11:42.400] You'd normally have a team liaison person. I made the conscious decision to go direct
[11:42.400 -> 11:47.000] and speak to, for example, Kasper Schmeichel and the Danish players
[11:47.000 -> 11:52.000] into the Finnish dressing room to speak to Tim Spar and those players.
[11:52.000 -> 11:56.000] To actually get a sense of how they were feeling and to have some honest interaction with them.
[11:56.000 -> 12:03.000] And I think that probably helped create a little bit of time and understanding
[12:03.000 -> 12:05.500] so everybody understood truly what was going
[12:05.500 -> 12:08.000] on and how we could move forward with it.
[12:08.000 -> 12:13.240] And how did it take you to recover from that incident? How ready were you to go again and
[12:13.240 -> 12:14.760] to take charge of another game?
[12:14.760 -> 12:22.560] Well, I refereed five days later. So, again, that came down to a lot of... Of course, we
[12:22.560 -> 12:25.240] had a lot of support from home,
[12:25.240 -> 12:26.360] but that was another thing.
[12:26.360 -> 12:28.360] While all that was happening,
[12:28.360 -> 12:30.640] I didn't get to speak to my wife and kids
[12:30.640 -> 12:33.140] until maybe four or five hours later
[12:33.140 -> 12:34.120] when I got back to the hotel
[12:34.120 -> 12:37.160] and sat down with a beer in the hotel.
[12:37.160 -> 12:38.560] Once we'd gone off the field
[12:38.560 -> 12:40.000] down into the changing rooms again,
[12:40.000 -> 12:42.280] I was kind of away from the rest of my team.
[12:42.280 -> 12:45.320] So I'd asked one of the lads to make contact
[12:45.320 -> 12:46.760] with all the families at home
[12:46.760 -> 12:48.760] to make sure they knew we were okay.
[12:49.720 -> 12:52.140] But from the moment the decision was made
[12:52.140 -> 12:53.420] to restart the game,
[12:55.000 -> 12:58.280] we had to spend five minutes to remind ourselves,
[12:58.280 -> 12:59.960] look, you're at the Euros.
[12:59.960 -> 13:02.900] It was only the fourth game of the whole tournament.
[13:03.840 -> 13:06.040] We need to go and finish this game.
[13:06.040 -> 13:07.840] And then potentially, you know,
[13:07.840 -> 13:10.720] your retention at that tournament is based on
[13:10.720 -> 13:13.160] your performance in that match.
[13:13.160 -> 13:15.600] So if you're not performing very well in that match,
[13:15.600 -> 13:17.160] you might go home after that.
[13:17.160 -> 13:18.080] And there'll be a nice moment,
[13:18.080 -> 13:19.440] hopefully in the not too distant future,
[13:19.440 -> 13:21.360] when you're on the same football pitch again as Christian.
[13:21.360 -> 13:25.000] Well, it's fantastic to see him back.
[13:25.000 -> 13:27.000] And so, yeah, hopefully.
[13:27.000 -> 13:31.000] You do one of the most scrutinised jobs in the world.
[13:31.000 -> 13:34.000] You are central to the most talked about, the most watched,
[13:34.000 -> 13:37.000] the most celebrated league in the world, yet you perform a role
[13:37.000 -> 13:40.000] in that league that is not the most celebrated,
[13:40.000 -> 13:41.000] it's the most scrutinised.
[13:41.000 -> 13:44.000] So before we talk about the specifics of your job
[13:44.000 -> 13:46.680] and the way that we view refereeing,
[13:46.680 -> 13:47.640] can you talk to us about the work
[13:47.640 -> 13:48.800] that you've had to do personally
[13:48.800 -> 13:50.100] to get to a point where you're happy
[13:50.100 -> 13:53.800] to stand on a football field in front of 60,000 people
[13:53.800 -> 13:55.880] with millions more watching at home
[13:55.880 -> 13:57.360] and have the courage of your convictions
[13:57.360 -> 14:00.680] to make a decision that you know
[14:00.680 -> 14:04.960] is gonna be picked upon, scrutinized, criticized?
[14:04.960 -> 14:05.000] I suppose it's having a slightly sick sense, scrutinized, criticized?
[14:05.000 -> 14:10.000] I suppose it's having a slightly sick sense of humor in a way, isn't it?
[14:10.000 -> 14:12.000] I like an adventure.
[14:12.000 -> 14:17.000] I like trying to do something that is enjoyable
[14:17.000 -> 14:32.240] and actually being studied from 60,000 people is the next best thing to play. And I think the simplest way to describe why I do and what a lot of the other lads at our
[14:32.240 -> 14:39.160] level why they do it is if you could bottle up that feeling of standing in the tunnel
[14:39.160 -> 14:48.480] before you walk out in front of 60-odd thousand people in a big match would be very similar to how a player would feel
[14:48.480 -> 14:53.200] scoring a winning goal in a cup final or for example like one of the Olympic athletes who
[14:53.200 -> 14:59.920] winning a gold medal in Beijing. It's purely for that buzz and that enjoyment factor.
[14:59.920 -> 15:05.360] So what do you tell us about the origins of where this journey started then, Ant?
[15:05.360 -> 15:12.560] It's something I tried when I was still a kid and I was a very, very average player at school,
[15:12.560 -> 15:17.440] but when I was at school I did a multitude of sports. I played football, I played rugby,
[15:17.440 -> 15:32.000] I played cricket, but equally I used to travel home and away watching, watching them in the old Vauxhall conference. And my mother being a school teacher, it was basically give it a go or shut up.
[15:32.000 -> 15:36.000] And so I kind of took the course and started it when I was still at school.
[15:36.000 -> 15:40.000] So back then it wasn't a case of look, do this because it will help you maybe
[15:40.000 -> 15:42.000] with communication skills.
[15:42.000 -> 15:45.520] It might help you with employment opportunities. gallai'n helpu chi efallai gyda sgiliau cyfathrebu, gallai'n helpu chi gyda cyfleoedd gweithredu,
[15:45.520 -> 15:48.720] gallai'n eich ymgyrchu chi sgiliau leoedd,
[15:48.720 -> 15:52.880] sy'n ymwneud â'r holl beth mae'n ymwneud â'r ymgyrchu yn ei wneud.
[15:52.880 -> 15:57.120] Roedd yn y bôn yn ymwneud â'r heriau sy'n cael eu llai o'i gilydd gan fy mhobl.
[15:57.120 -> 15:58.400] Felly, pa oeddech chi'n oed?
[15:58.400 -> 15:59.760] Pan ddechreuais i'r gyntaf, 16 oed.
[16:00.480 -> 16:07.000] Felly, ar gyfer y diwylliant, roedd ystod y ymgyrchu 2020 wedi'i wneud ym study done at the University of Portsmouth that
[16:07.000 -> 16:13.000] I described a horrific stat that 60% of people that go into refereeing will experience some kind of
[16:13.000 -> 16:20.000] verbal or physical abuse one every two games. Was that a concern for yourself or your parents at that stage?
[16:20.000 -> 16:28.160] No, genuinely it wasn't. So 20 plus years ago, local grassroots football, particularly
[16:28.160 -> 16:34.240] open age grassroots football, was huge. They were the days when semi-pro players, they
[16:34.240 -> 16:39.040] weren't contracted to the teams on the Saturdays, so they could play Saturday in the Northern
[16:39.040 -> 16:42.300] Premier League or North West Counties, but then they could play for the local pub team
[16:42.300 -> 16:49.600] on a Sunday as well. And so on places like Wythenshawe Park you'd have 15-20 matches all at one time.
[16:49.600 -> 16:53.440] Two, three hundred people stood around the side of a pitch watching it but you were
[16:53.440 -> 16:57.120] as a 16-17 year old you were refereeing players who were playing in
[16:57.120 -> 17:02.560] Contributory League football. So for me that was a, one it was a challenge and a
[17:02.560 -> 17:07.000] big shock to the system initially but it's a that was a challenge and a big shock to the system initially, but that was a great, great grounding.
[17:07.000 -> 17:13.000] Compare that to nowadays, open age football to a point has dwindled significantly at grassroots level.
[17:13.000 -> 17:21.000] And so the majority of football is youth and junior, which obviously then has its own challenges and complexities
[17:21.000 -> 17:26.240] with not necessarily the players, but the parents, spectators and coaches are
[17:26.240 -> 17:30.080] potentially the ones who cause more of an issue towards the level of abuse that happens
[17:30.080 -> 17:31.080] these days.
[17:31.080 -> 17:37.040] Let's talk then about this level of abuse. I'm sure you talk about it a lot as referees.
[17:37.040 -> 17:40.280] Where do you all believe this is coming from?
[17:40.280 -> 17:52.600] I don't think it's coming from one particular place. So if you actually think a high proportion of referees at grassroots level are under the age of 18,
[17:52.600 -> 17:59.400] it's kids who are trying to learn new skills, exercise, have some kind of enjoyment in football,
[17:59.400 -> 18:01.400] just like all the lads and the girls that are playing.
[18:01.400 -> 18:06.240] The bit I really struggle with personally, certainly with like some of the involvement I have at grassroots
[18:06.240 -> 18:10.480] football, is I really struggle to understand how parents who are stood on
[18:10.480 -> 18:17.280] the sideline of spectators find it acceptable to verbally abuse a 15 or 16
[18:17.280 -> 18:21.960] year old girl or lad who is trying to referee a game. They wouldn't find that
[18:21.960 -> 18:25.760] acceptable if an adult went and spoke to one of their children like that who was actually playing.
[18:26.840 -> 18:30.280] So that for me is probably the underlying factor and
[18:31.040 -> 18:37.000] where a blame culture is really fostered and developing over a period of time
[18:37.480 -> 18:43.080] where many people find that's just some kind of acceptable behavior. It wouldn't happen in a workplace,
[18:43.080 -> 18:50.200] it wouldn't happen in a pub. Well a friend of mine is Nick Cox, who's the head of the Academy at Manchester United, and I've heard him talk about it.
[18:50.200 -> 18:58.400] I've taken that behavior out of context and the example he uses is, can you imagine a parent abusing a child in the school nativity play
[18:58.400 -> 19:05.600] for not walking fast enough or forgetting the lines? The thought's's ridiculous and yet like you say it seems that
[19:06.160 -> 19:12.080] it's acceptable when you take people on the side of a football pitch. So why do you think that is
[19:12.080 -> 19:19.840] the case? I think it's a cultural, historical thing and you know many times I can, I'm asked
[19:19.840 -> 19:30.880] the question what people see on the television on a Saturday night or a Sunday afternoon transpires down to to grassroots football and to a degree to a
[19:30.880 -> 19:37.560] degree that's true but we're talking about parents and coaches who have gone
[19:37.560 -> 19:42.760] through some kind of education process at grassroots football so surely that
[19:42.760 -> 19:45.280] that culture has to change, the culture of blaming people
[19:45.280 -> 19:51.500] for your own failings or you wouldn't get the parent of a 16-year-old referee running
[19:51.500 -> 19:56.680] up into the face of a coach of an under-15s team going, that was a wonderful substitution
[19:56.680 -> 19:59.960] you've just made or what about that player who's just missed that penalty or missed that
[19:59.960 -> 20:06.240] pass. Does rugby have that problem? At grassroots rugby? I don't think they do. Because I think
[20:06.240 -> 20:12.720] if many grassroots rugby clubs, they would simply ban the parent and ban that player
[20:12.720 -> 20:20.640] from playing for the club again. And we can't hide behind the message that, well it's all
[20:20.640 -> 20:24.320] about people playing football. That shouldn't be the thing we hide behind if somebody's
[20:24.320 -> 20:27.880] being abused in whatever kind of context.
[20:27.880 -> 20:30.400] You see, I think it's all about communication.
[20:30.400 -> 20:32.760] I don't think people understand your job.
[20:32.760 -> 20:34.800] I don't think they understand how hard your job is.
[20:34.800 -> 20:36.680] And we'll have a conversation now about that
[20:36.680 -> 20:37.760] to try and educate more people
[20:37.760 -> 20:40.280] into what actually happens during a game of football.
[20:40.280 -> 20:45.000] But I also think that communication needs to be better
[20:45.000 -> 20:46.000] from a referee.
[20:46.000 -> 20:48.000] I think you should be allowed to talk,
[20:48.000 -> 20:51.000] you should be allowed to do interviews with the media
[20:51.000 -> 20:53.000] after a game, share your frustrations,
[20:53.000 -> 20:55.000] share your decision-making processes,
[20:55.000 -> 20:58.000] right down to allowing people at home to hear
[20:58.000 -> 21:01.000] the conversation that goes on during a VAR decision.
[21:01.000 -> 21:04.000] So it's kind of similar, right?
[21:04.000 -> 21:06.380] If you do my job, you get loads of criticism.
[21:06.380 -> 21:08.040] One of the best ways to deflect that criticism
[21:08.040 -> 21:11.920] was when I put up a video sharing me working
[21:11.920 -> 21:13.560] with all of the conversations that I have in my ear
[21:13.560 -> 21:15.940] about seven or eight different people talking.
[21:15.940 -> 21:17.560] And it's only then that it dawns on people
[21:17.560 -> 21:20.220] that actually about 10% of my job
[21:20.220 -> 21:22.240] is asking questions about football.
[21:22.240 -> 21:25.000] The other 90% of my job is trying to keep a TV show on air
[21:25.000 -> 21:30.000] and deal with all of the logistical elements of making television.
[21:30.000 -> 21:33.000] Do you not think it's about time that we all got a better understanding
[21:33.000 -> 21:37.000] of the logistical challenges of running a game of football
[21:37.000 -> 21:41.000] rather than just talking about the nuanced penalty decisions?
[21:41.000 -> 21:42.000] Yeah, most definitely.
[21:42.000 -> 21:46.360] I think a good starting point would be for you to take the referee course
[21:46.360 -> 21:51.520] and then me and Damien can come and watch you refer.
[21:51.520 -> 21:54.080] So tell me the biggest...
[21:54.080 -> 21:56.040] Tell me then, in my job, I get that,
[21:56.040 -> 21:59.200] but what's the biggest mistake that I make
[21:59.200 -> 22:00.640] or that the people in the media make?
[22:00.640 -> 22:03.400] Or what is the biggest frustration that you as referees discuss
[22:03.400 -> 22:05.040] in terms of us
[22:05.040 -> 22:07.580] misrepresenting or misunderstanding your job?
[22:07.580 -> 22:14.680] I think there's probably two or three areas to consider. So, of course, when you're presenting
[22:14.680 -> 22:20.040] a live broadcast, you want to make it entertaining for people, you want people to be engaged
[22:20.040 -> 22:26.080] and you almost want a sense of controversy and discussion amongst the panelists, because it would be boring, wouldn't it,
[22:26.080 -> 22:30.000] if everybody around your table would just say,
[22:30.000 -> 22:31.480] yeah, absolutely, we all agree.
[22:31.480 -> 22:32.800] Listen, the media love clicks.
[22:32.800 -> 22:35.720] I mean, there are certain stations, radio and TV stations,
[22:35.720 -> 22:39.200] that exist solely to create controversial content
[22:39.200 -> 22:40.920] so that loads of people view that,
[22:40.920 -> 22:44.160] and that's how they make their mark.
[22:44.160 -> 22:48.520] But actually understanding the perspective of the person who's making that decision
[22:48.520 -> 22:52.320] is fundamental to help communicate on why a decision is made.
[22:52.320 -> 22:56.880] So of course people will still probably not agree with the decision a lot of the time.
[22:56.880 -> 23:02.360] One of the reasons or one of the flaws a lot of the time when a mistake is made by an official
[23:02.360 -> 23:06.240] is that lack of understanding of either the framework of
[23:06.240 -> 23:12.840] the laws of the game which that decision is made under, or you're basing a discussion
[23:12.840 -> 23:18.560] around camera angles, for example, that the official who's making that decision hasn't
[23:18.560 -> 23:19.640] got access to.
[23:19.640 -> 23:26.320] So topical examples, one of mine from the weekend game in City and Tottenham,
[23:26.320 -> 23:31.520] where the penalty that's given in the last minute for handball is a handball offence.
[23:31.520 -> 23:37.320] But in real time, that can't be seen from on field because of the position where I am
[23:37.320 -> 23:38.720] and the position of the other players.
[23:38.720 -> 23:43.520] So from a camera that's by the corner flag, it's a really clear offence.
[23:43.520 -> 23:48.160] So as long as that right decision's been reached, most people are generally happy.
[23:48.560 -> 23:53.360] So using, using angles from behind the goal, which are probably normally the best
[23:53.360 -> 23:57.560] angles to show whether a decision is right or wrong, that has to be used in the context
[23:57.560 -> 24:01.480] that, well, the referee hasn't got the angle available to him in that split second.
[24:01.960 -> 24:05.720] So adding some balance to the discussion would help that
[24:05.720 -> 24:06.600] understanding I think.
[24:06.840 -> 24:10.360] Now, the only way we can add the balance though, is by hearing
[24:10.360 -> 24:11.440] both sides of the argument.
[24:11.480 -> 24:14.680] My problem is I sit there and I have three ex footballers,
[24:14.720 -> 24:20.040] sometimes an ex referee, but even the ex referee we have only
[24:20.040 -> 24:22.840] has access to the shots that we've looked at.
[24:23.400 -> 24:27.960] And I think we all get impacted by seeing something seven or eight times in super
[24:27.960 -> 24:28.600] slow-mo.
[24:29.200 -> 24:32.320] Even an ex-referee is impacted by that.
[24:33.040 -> 24:35.560] So what you've just said there makes absolutely perfect sense.
[24:36.320 -> 24:40.360] I don't know whether you can, but I can see the power in allowing that kind of a
[24:40.360 -> 24:41.960] conversation to happen after a game.
[24:41.960 -> 24:43.480] Like, would you enjoy that?
[24:43.480 -> 24:46.440] Would you like that opportunity?
[24:46.440 -> 24:47.520] I certainly can see the power in it, yeah.
[24:47.520 -> 24:49.960] I mean, it's like any conversation,
[24:49.960 -> 24:52.880] there's always going to be positive and negative sides to it.
[24:52.880 -> 24:55.280] And we're still dealing with subjectivity
[24:55.280 -> 24:56.600] a lot of the time, aren't we?
[24:56.600 -> 25:00.480] A few years ago, everybody was crying out for technology
[25:00.480 -> 25:06.000] to help solve the issues of subjectivity and clear mistakes.
[25:06.000 -> 25:11.000] It hasn't solved it because we still have the debates week on week.
[25:11.000 -> 25:14.000] The offside decisions are a very good example.
[25:14.000 -> 25:21.000] So pre-VAR, every week you'd see on the television,
[25:21.000 -> 25:25.600] lines being drawn across to show a player with his big toe offside.
[25:25.600 -> 25:30.600] Everybody's going, oh my word, how has an assistant referee missed this big toenail being in an offside position?
[25:30.600 -> 25:35.800] And when we get to the point where technology is introduced and those decisions were being made then,
[25:35.800 -> 25:40.600] we've flip-flopped completely the opposite way going, this is now a disaster for the game.
[25:40.600 -> 25:48.720] But 12 months previously, everybody was crying out for it. So people still, while still entitled to opinions,
[25:48.720 -> 25:51.300] we still need that balance of, you know,
[25:51.300 -> 25:54.920] you can't ask for one thing and then cry foul
[25:54.920 -> 25:57.600] when it's brought in and people don't like it.
[25:57.600 -> 26:01.360] But I think even that explanation is so valuable, I think.
[26:01.360 -> 26:03.360] And I just, the more that,
[26:03.360 -> 26:04.560] I just think we need to do something,
[26:04.560 -> 26:06.740] because I think the way that we exist at the moment
[26:06.740 -> 26:09.580] in terms of not hearing this kind of viewpoint,
[26:09.580 -> 26:11.140] not even understanding sometimes
[26:11.140 -> 26:12.560] how a decision has been reached,
[26:12.560 -> 26:14.680] even when you're having that two-way communication
[26:14.680 -> 26:16.740] with the VAR officials,
[26:16.740 -> 26:19.260] it's a bit like we maybe have 10% of the information
[26:19.260 -> 26:21.780] and we have to make up the other 90%.
[26:21.780 -> 26:23.620] And I don't think that's valuable for us.
[26:23.620 -> 26:24.780] I don't think it's valuable for you.
[26:24.780 -> 26:26.900] And I don't think it's valuable for us. I don't think it's valuable for you and I don't think it's valuable for the, for the football fan at
[26:26.900 -> 26:32.200] home. So I really want to kind of just have this very rare conversation with a
[26:32.200 -> 26:38.000] current official about the real challenges of a game of football. You
[26:38.000 -> 26:41.560] can give us specific examples if you want, but could you just take us into a
[26:41.560 -> 26:45.560] match. It's ongoing, things are happening all around
[26:45.560 -> 26:52.240] you, there's a penalty decision which involves the use of VAR, just go through if you can
[26:52.240 -> 26:56.320] how many different parameters are operating at that moment, what you're hearing, what
[26:56.320 -> 26:58.120] you're doing, what you're thinking.
[26:58.120 -> 27:04.320] So take the initial complexity of a penalty decision in a match at full speed, so one
[27:04.320 -> 27:06.440] you're trying to judge the level of contact, you're trying to judge the level of contact,
[27:06.440 -> 27:09.520] you're trying to judge the consequence of that contact,
[27:09.520 -> 27:11.840] and you're trying to then fit that
[27:11.840 -> 27:16.840] into what the expectations are of the organisation
[27:18.400 -> 27:20.560] and the competition that set guidelines
[27:20.560 -> 27:21.560] at the start of the season.
[27:21.560 -> 27:22.960] Yeah.
[27:22.960 -> 27:25.000] And is there any part of you that's thinking,
[27:25.000 -> 27:28.000] that's a big team, those fans are vociferous?
[27:28.000 -> 27:29.000] No.
[27:29.000 -> 27:30.000] None of that?
[27:30.000 -> 27:31.000] No.
[27:31.000 -> 27:32.000] What do the media are going to make of it?
[27:32.000 -> 27:35.000] So this is a current, this has always been a big misconception.
[27:35.000 -> 27:40.000] That those factors do not come into it.
[27:40.000 -> 27:44.000] Because if you're truly doing your job and focused,
[27:44.000 -> 27:47.320] then you actually are not
[27:47.320 -> 27:51.140] hearing the crowd, you're not aware of the surroundings you're in, you
[27:51.140 -> 27:55.560] might as well be stood on the local park in terms of you're focused on
[27:55.560 -> 28:00.120] that situation. Brilliant. So how do you avoid the stuff then that exists
[28:00.120 -> 28:05.840] beforehand? So you hear like managers in the week sort of talking about the opposition
[28:05.840 -> 28:11.120] have got a number of penalties recently or they're trying to influence a ref by their
[28:11.120 -> 28:15.320] comments in the media. How do you block that noise out before it?
[28:15.320 -> 28:16.320] Don't read it.
[28:16.320 -> 28:17.320] You just avoid?
[28:17.320 -> 28:28.200] Don't read it. The way I approach something like that is I'm always trying to be on the front foot with everything. So all
[28:28.200 -> 28:36.200] I'm interested in is focusing on the two teams, the players involved, how the
[28:36.200 -> 28:42.600] team's set up and how the game might pan out. And usually the challenges within a
[28:42.600 -> 28:46.000] game are affected by the individual players who play in that game.
[28:46.000 -> 28:57.000] So whilst it's important to understand the tactics of a team, because obviously a City-Liverpool match is obviously end-to-end, non-stop, free-flowing,
[28:57.000 -> 29:05.000] passing in little triangles, feeding it through the gaps, compared to two teams outside of the top echelons,
[29:05.840 -> 29:07.160] the patterns of play will be different.
[29:07.160 -> 29:09.480] So that impacts on how much running you need to do,
[29:09.480 -> 29:11.480] where you might need to stand,
[29:11.480 -> 29:12.920] your positioning around the penalty area
[29:12.920 -> 29:15.600] for those situations.
[29:16.520 -> 29:20.360] But it's all about making split-second decisions
[29:20.360 -> 29:22.280] using as much information as possible,
[29:22.280 -> 29:25.060] and then also trying to influence people
[29:25.060 -> 29:27.340] to accept those decisions.
[29:27.340 -> 29:29.500] Right, because that bit really fascinates me,
[29:29.500 -> 29:31.540] because again, looking from the outside on,
[29:31.540 -> 29:36.340] that it's easy to dehumanize referees, you know,
[29:36.340 -> 29:40.260] and see them as less than human in many ways,
[29:40.260 -> 29:42.340] which mean that you delete, you distort,
[29:42.340 -> 29:45.000] or you dismiss the evidence that's in front of you.
[29:45.000 -> 29:52.000] So do you build relationships with the players so they see you as part of the game?
[29:52.000 -> 29:55.000] Yeah, you've got to. You have to.
[29:55.000 -> 29:57.000] So how do you go about doing that?
[29:57.000 -> 30:01.000] So everybody's individual. So a lot of the time referees are criticised for being robotic.
[30:01.000 -> 30:03.000] And nothing's further from the truth.
[30:03.000 -> 30:05.400] If people actually spent the time to
[30:05.400 -> 30:11.440] analyse each of the lads who referee a Premier League match, for example, there is 22 different
[30:11.440 -> 30:16.420] personalities and people deal with things in different ways. We're all from different
[30:16.420 -> 30:22.040] professional backgrounds. And so part of that understanding actually comes into play with
[30:22.040 -> 30:30.120] how you deal with individual players and what kind of interactions you have with the players as well.
[30:30.120 -> 30:32.880] And how has your background helped you in that situation?
[30:32.880 -> 30:42.120] I don't know whether that's broadcastable or not but I think sometimes that how you
[30:42.120 -> 30:47.280] say something to somebody actually gets their buy-in to it.
[30:47.280 -> 30:49.120] So by simply admitting that,
[30:49.120 -> 30:51.680] yeah, I might have got this throwing wrong
[30:51.680 -> 30:54.120] or it probably wasn't very good for me
[30:54.120 -> 30:57.600] or that kind of re-humanizing yourself
[30:57.600 -> 30:59.760] instead of being dehumanized.
[30:59.760 -> 31:01.800] And that's one thing actually I quite enjoy
[31:01.800 -> 31:03.120] at the start of the season when we go and speak
[31:03.120 -> 31:12.520] to the players in the squad visits. Those discussions are really, really good.
[31:12.520 -> 31:13.520] In what respect?
[31:13.520 -> 31:19.720] Just from the engagement level. You could discuss a situation, you might be able to
[31:19.720 -> 31:23.400] take the mickey out of a player for making a mistake that's led to a particular penalty
[31:23.400 -> 31:28.320] being given or an own goal being scored or something like that. But then we're also trying to get the
[31:28.320 -> 31:35.720] players to understand the parameters to which we're trying to operate to. So again, if I
[31:35.720 -> 31:40.760] give a decision for a red card or a handball offence, that's not because I'm choosing to
[31:40.760 -> 31:46.160] give that just because that's Anthony Taylor's opinion or, you know, viewpoint of how it should be penalised.
[31:46.160 -> 31:52.320] That is the opinion of the competition stroke organisation that want me to referee that game.
[31:52.320 -> 32:02.000] And that's how we try and get some kind of consistency across the competition for people to penalise certain offences.
[32:02.000 -> 32:06.000] So what's your reaction when you hear people say, oh the referee wants to make it all about themselves?
[32:06.000 -> 32:08.000] Hugely frustrating.
[32:08.000 -> 32:12.000] Because I couldn't name you one person
[32:12.000 -> 32:14.000] who is refereeing today in the Premier League
[32:14.000 -> 32:16.000] that has that approach.
[32:16.000 -> 32:18.000] Why do we feel that then?
[32:18.000 -> 32:20.000] Maybe trying to create some controversy?
[32:20.000 -> 32:24.000] Maybe part of the blame culture?
[32:24.000 -> 32:25.000] I think it makes people feel better if their team have lost a game of football. some controversy, maybe part of the blame culture.
[32:25.000 -> 32:26.520] I think it makes people feel better
[32:26.520 -> 32:28.000] if their team have lost a game of,
[32:28.000 -> 32:29.640] I mean, that's the thing we have to remember here.
[32:29.640 -> 32:31.440] Nobody is watching a game of football
[32:31.440 -> 32:33.640] without an emotional investment in that game.
[32:33.640 -> 32:35.560] Particularly the people that share their thoughts,
[32:35.560 -> 32:39.440] the people that go onto social media.
[32:39.440 -> 32:42.800] So we have to take that into account at all times, I guess.
[32:42.800 -> 32:44.120] So let's go back to this incident.
[32:44.120 -> 32:46.400] Something's happened on the pitch.
[32:46.400 -> 32:49.240] You've judged the speed, the ferocity.
[32:49.240 -> 32:50.680] What happens next?
[32:50.680 -> 32:51.680] And then you try and work out
[32:51.680 -> 32:53.760] whether it's actually punishable or not.
[32:53.760 -> 32:55.600] And at this point, you've got players in your ears.
[32:55.600 -> 32:56.440] Yeah.
[32:56.440 -> 32:57.280] Ref, that's never a yellow card,
[32:57.280 -> 32:59.680] that's never a pen, that's never a sending off.
[33:00.900 -> 33:02.880] Is there any value in listening to those players?
[33:02.880 -> 33:05.600] Because often what they say when we're working together,
[33:05.600 -> 33:07.800] they'll say, oh, you can tell by the reaction he knew,
[33:07.800 -> 33:09.400] he knew that that was never a penalty.
[33:09.400 -> 33:11.000] You could tell by his teammates' reaction.
[33:11.000 -> 33:12.800] So are you judging body language
[33:12.800 -> 33:14.600] and the way people are talking at that point as well?
[33:14.600 -> 33:17.200] I think sometimes you can get a feeling once you've made a decision
[33:17.200 -> 33:19.400] whether you've called it right or not.
[33:20.600 -> 33:23.400] Based on how players react sometimes.
[33:23.400 -> 33:27.280] Of course, there are going to be times where players and
[33:27.280 -> 33:29.880] managers trying to influence a decision,
[33:29.880 -> 33:33.480] trying to get a decision for the next time you've got to call that.
[33:33.480 -> 33:38.280] But there are times where, you know, you've got a feeling.
[33:38.280 -> 33:43.480] I had a sense that I missed handball on Saturday night.
[33:43.480 -> 33:46.160] But as soon as you say to a player,
[33:46.160 -> 33:49.880] I genuinely would be guessing because I'm blocked.
[33:49.880 -> 33:51.480] I can't see and then all of a sudden they're like,
[33:51.480 -> 33:52.680] oh right, okay.
[33:52.680 -> 33:55.560] But then in that situation,
[33:55.560 -> 34:00.560] that's when the communication between me and the VAR starts
[34:00.560 -> 34:04.120] because it's important for me to say to the VAR,
[34:04.120 -> 34:07.000] this isn't my opinion that it's not handball,
[34:07.000 -> 34:10.000] I'm telling you, I haven't got a clear view.
[34:10.000 -> 34:15.000] So I need you to look at this objectively.
[34:15.000 -> 34:17.000] Do you think this is a clear handball?
[34:17.000 -> 34:20.000] And if so, it's important we get to the right decision,
[34:20.000 -> 34:22.000] so I need to go and have another look.
[34:22.000 -> 34:26.920] So just to be clear, even when those conversations with VAR are going on, the sort of the energy
[34:26.920 -> 34:32.200] for that conversation, the drive of that conversation is coming from the on-field official, the
[34:32.200 -> 34:35.480] energy isn't coming from back at the stocking part of their base.
[34:35.480 -> 34:42.160] A lot of the time the first initial thing that's important is the feel and the opinion
[34:42.160 -> 34:45.000] of the official on the field who's made that decision.
[34:45.000 -> 34:51.000] I really want people to understand and feel the layers that go into a decision on the field.
[34:51.000 -> 34:56.000] So would you mind just going through, like, I see an incident, I think this,
[34:56.000 -> 35:00.000] then I speak to the assistants, then the VAR gets involved, then I've got seven voices,
[35:00.000 -> 35:07.520] then it goes all the way through to to then a decision is made. OK, so the situation would happen on field
[35:08.360 -> 35:13.680] and then in that split second, you're trying to make a judgment on
[35:14.800 -> 35:17.760] what level of contact there is, how that's impacted on
[35:18.440 -> 35:21.040] the player either staying on his feet or falling over,
[35:22.040 -> 35:26.200] what the current guidelines and expectations are for that particular situation,
[35:26.200 -> 35:32.480] so is it a push, is it a tackle, is it a handball offence, if it's close to your assistant,
[35:32.480 -> 35:37.440] are they going to have an opinion because they've got a better view, so all that happens
[35:37.440 -> 35:46.000] in a millisecond. You then are either saying no, play on, or yeah, that's a penalty.
[35:46.000 -> 35:51.000] If you stop the game, then is there a discussion that needs to take place,
[35:51.000 -> 35:54.000] then is it a yellow card, is it a red card?
[35:54.000 -> 35:57.000] What are the considerations you've got to use then?
[35:57.000 -> 36:03.000] And again, the framework of expectation, but more importantly,
[36:03.000 -> 36:07.080] the framework of law comes into play.
[36:07.080 -> 36:08.760] So again, that's another millisecond.
[36:08.760 -> 36:12.700] So all this is happening in the space of a second or two.
[36:13.840 -> 36:16.400] And then once you've actually come to a decision,
[36:16.400 -> 36:20.800] you've not only got VAR in your ear saying,
[36:20.800 -> 36:22.240] we're going to have a look at that,
[36:22.240 -> 36:23.640] because that's the automatic thing
[36:23.640 -> 36:26.380] that happens under the process. You then may also have a look at that because that's the automatic thing that happens under the process.
[36:26.380 -> 36:30.060] You then may also have a couple of players chirping in your ear.
[36:30.060 -> 36:36.160] You then may also have one of your team or the fourth official in your ear.
[36:36.160 -> 36:40.880] And all of a sudden you've got quite a lot of noise that you have to filter and process
[36:40.880 -> 36:41.880] through.
[36:41.880 -> 36:46.200] And again, this is all in the space of a second or two.
[36:46.200 -> 36:48.560] And then once VAR get involved,
[36:48.560 -> 36:49.920] how many voices are you hearing then?
[36:49.920 -> 36:52.400] Is it just you and one other, you and two others?
[36:52.400 -> 36:53.560] You and one other.
[36:53.560 -> 36:54.520] Right.
[36:54.520 -> 36:56.400] And how do you have a conversation with them
[36:56.400 -> 36:58.040] to not be swayed if you're not?
[36:58.040 -> 37:00.520] I mean, so it just remains
[37:00.520 -> 37:01.880] that they're giving you more information,
[37:01.880 -> 37:03.160] but it's still your decision.
[37:03.160 -> 37:08.000] Yeah, so really the conversation shouldn't be too extensive between
[37:08.000 -> 37:11.000] on field and in the studio.
[37:11.000 -> 37:14.000] The purpose of VAR is to establish whether that's a clear error.
[37:14.000 -> 37:19.000] So, one, they need to understand why you've given that decision.
[37:19.000 -> 37:22.000] But they would have picked that up in real time anyway.
[37:22.000 -> 37:26.720] So then, they're trying to objectively look at those pictures to determine
[37:27.760 -> 37:33.280] has what's been decided already clearly wrong. There's limited conversation between the two,
[37:34.000 -> 37:39.760] but even them just saying I'm checking that or I'm going to ask you to go and look at the screen,
[37:40.400 -> 37:46.560] but I need to just quickly check if there's an offside or a foul before I ask you to give a penalty, potentially.
[37:46.560 -> 37:51.160] Whatever you're asked to do, that final decision always rests with us.
[37:51.160 -> 37:55.160] We have a responsibility to make sure that the right decision is made.
[37:55.160 -> 37:59.960] And if that involves going to the screen, then we've got to be big enough and ugly enough to say,
[37:59.960 -> 38:03.360] alright, I've called it wrong. I've got a chance to rectify it now.
[38:03.360 -> 38:06.000] Because there is nothing worse
[38:06.000 -> 38:08.240] than traveling home after a game
[38:08.240 -> 38:10.120] and you've made a big error,
[38:10.120 -> 38:13.600] which has been perceived to influence the result.
[38:13.600 -> 38:14.720] And that's got to be embraced,
[38:14.720 -> 38:17.840] and that's how elite sport evolves.
[38:17.840 -> 38:20.000] That's how it has evolved.
[38:20.000 -> 38:22.640] There are more, more of the major calls
[38:22.640 -> 38:50.000] are correctly made now, with the technology being there. Auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile, unlimited premium wireless. How do I get 30, 30, 30, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month.
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[40:21.220 -> 40:49.000] for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash HPP. That's mintmobile.com slash HPP. See this is fascinating to me because we all know that our emotions are a lot faster than Mae'n ffasaf i mi, oherwydd gwybod i gyd ein bod ni'n gwybod bod ein syniadau yn fwy cyflym na'n ddwyseddol i ddod yn ôl,
[40:49.000 -> 40:54.000] ond yna rydych chi'n rhaid i chi wneud penderfyniadau ddysgu yn amgylchedd sy'n cael eu sylw.
[40:54.000 -> 41:00.000] Felly, pa ffordd a'r pwysau a'r gynllunau y gallech chi'n rannu gyda ni, Anthony, y gallwch i'r clywod ddefnyddio,
[41:00.000 -> 41:07.960] sy'n golygu eu cael eu cael yn cael ymchwil i feddwl yn dda a'n ddym.
[41:07.960 -> 41:13.160] Rwy'n credu y peth sydd wedi fy helpu ers cyntaf y cyflwyniad o fwy o dechnoleg
[41:13.160 -> 41:16.960] yw gwneud y peth o ddod yn dda i'r ddau
[41:16.960 -> 41:23.000] a chanolgoi'r ddifrifolwg, nid unig y dyddiadurau,
[41:23.000 -> 41:27.000] ond y ffurfyrwyr sy'n cael eu gwneud penderfyniadau the frameworks not only of the laws but the parameters that are set to make decisions
[41:27.000 -> 41:32.000] about, you've made your real-time on-field judgment, you've got to forget about that now.
[41:32.000 -> 41:34.000] You've got to part that decision.
[41:34.000 -> 41:37.000] Right, so how do you do that then? How do you move on from?
[41:37.000 -> 41:40.000] You've just got to really, a bit of self-talk and effectively say,
[41:40.000 -> 41:45.280] right, that's done and dusted. If I'm now going to look at it again I need to look
[41:45.280 -> 41:51.440] at it with a clean mind and actually talk through what I'm
[41:51.440 -> 41:55.240] looking at again, where's the contact, what kind of contact is it, where's the
[41:55.240 -> 42:00.900] arm, where's the ball hit, how does that then fit into what I need to
[42:00.900 -> 42:06.200] make a judgment on. So do you have any, so when we interviewed Dan Carter on the podcast, for example,
[42:06.200 -> 42:11.320] he spoke about when he'd made a mistake that he'd have like a trigger, in his case
[42:11.320 -> 42:18.320] it was he'd kick the toe of his boot into the floor so he could feel his toe make contact with the ground and that
[42:18.600 -> 42:22.200] re-centered him to then go and make that... to have that clean mind.
[42:22.320 -> 42:24.880] Do you have anything like that or any ideas?
[42:24.880 -> 42:25.000] So I certainly don't kick the floor because I might trip up. and make that work, to have that clean mind. Do you have anything like that or any ideas?
[42:25.000 -> 42:28.400] So I certainly don't kick the floor because I might trip up.
[42:28.400 -> 42:33.000] But mine is literally talking out loud to my team.
[42:33.000 -> 42:33.600] Right.
[42:33.600 -> 42:36.000] So I'm quite fortunate.
[42:36.000 -> 42:38.800] I usually work the same two assistants on every single game,
[42:38.800 -> 42:40.400] both here and international wise.
[42:40.400 -> 42:41.000] Right.
[42:41.000 -> 42:43.400] So we've been a team for best part of five years now.
[42:43.400 -> 42:46.160] So we know what makes each other tick.
[42:46.160 -> 42:49.040] So it's that talk between us, the decision's been made,
[42:50.320 -> 42:53.400] you know, move on, I've made this decision because of this.
[42:53.400 -> 42:54.960] I've had to change my decision
[42:54.960 -> 42:57.920] because I've missed something, fine, that happens.
[42:57.920 -> 42:59.160] And that's probably the biggest,
[42:59.160 -> 43:02.600] that was the biggest challenge for elite referees
[43:02.600 -> 43:05.000] with the introduction of technology.
[43:05.000 -> 43:13.000] How do you prepare for standing in front of a TV audience of millions or billions
[43:13.000 -> 43:18.000] in the split second to say, actually, I've looked at it again, I'm wrong?
[43:18.000 -> 43:19.000] Yeah, yeah, of course.
[43:19.000 -> 43:21.000] Nobody thinks about that.
[43:21.000 -> 43:26.240] Because traditionally in refereeing, probably a little bit to a point like some
[43:26.240 -> 43:32.080] players as well, it takes probably 48, 72 hours to actually truly be honest and say,
[43:32.080 -> 43:36.800] actually yeah, I've made a mistake there. Nobody is ever really going to come out within half an
[43:36.800 -> 43:41.200] hour of a game, in the example, Jake, you talk about speaking to somebody to say, yeah, sorry
[43:41.200 -> 43:49.840] guys, I've made a mistake, it was a dreadful decision. It's only when you've gone home, stepped away, then in the cold light of day,
[43:49.840 -> 43:54.480] re-analyzed stuff from the different camera angles and viewpoints and talked again with
[43:54.480 -> 44:00.320] the guys, that you actually, really are honest enough to say, that's a dreadful decision.
[44:02.000 -> 44:05.600] And then to try and understand why you've made that decision wrong in the first
[44:05.600 -> 44:06.600] place.
[44:06.600 -> 44:10.240] But then when you're looking at a screen and there is 60,000 people there and you're going
[44:10.240 -> 44:16.560] I got that wrong, that does take real humility. So what, what tricks can you share with us
[44:16.560 -> 44:22.720] that you've learned of being able to admit fallibility and then move on from it that
[44:22.720 -> 44:28.600] like listeners could take away. I think humility is one of the fundamental things
[44:28.600 -> 44:30.640] operating in an elite environment.
[44:31.600 -> 44:36.200] The more you can say, I'm sorry, or I've made a mistake,
[44:36.200 -> 44:39.520] I think that's such a powerful way of getting people's buy-in
[44:39.520 -> 44:40.960] to what you're trying to do.
[44:40.960 -> 44:44.920] And yeah, people expect officials to be perfect 100%
[44:44.920 -> 44:45.600] all the time.
[44:45.600 -> 44:50.600] Well, you're not living in the real world because that kind of perfection doesn't exist anywhere.
[44:50.600 -> 44:56.000] So can you give us an example of a manager then say that's just about to like unload on you for something
[44:56.000 -> 45:00.600] and then you go, sorry I made a mistake and like what's the effect on them once you do that?
[45:00.600 -> 45:03.400] Sometimes it can, it can bring somebody from there to there in a split second.
[45:03.400 -> 45:05.600] Right. The same with players?
[45:05.600 -> 45:10.360] The same with a player in normal time, you know, during the game.
[45:10.720 -> 45:13.160] Say, tails, that might be, that's a horrendous decision.
[45:13.800 -> 45:16.440] All right, it might be a corner instead of a goal kick or something.
[45:16.520 -> 45:17.020] Yeah.
[45:17.480 -> 45:23.520] Well, I might like to remind them, you know, of that misplaced pass or missed open goal.
[45:24.320 -> 45:26.880] And when you say that, what's the reaction then?
[45:26.880 -> 45:28.960] A lot of the time, a bit of laugh.
[45:28.960 -> 45:30.600] They might not be so keen of him chasing him around
[45:30.600 -> 45:33.480] for the rest of the game, reminding him of that.
[45:33.480 -> 45:34.320] I love that.
[45:34.320 -> 45:36.280] I remember when Diego Maradona passed away
[45:36.280 -> 45:38.800] and Liam Brady wrote a brilliant piece
[45:38.800 -> 45:42.240] in a newspaper about him where he said
[45:42.240 -> 45:45.000] what he felt made him such a great player was that he never berated any of his teammates, ac yn y newsgript arno, a dweud y byddai'n teimlo'n gwneud iddo fod yn un llawer o fwyrwyr,
[45:45.000 -> 45:48.000] oedd e ddim yn ymwneud â phob un o'i cymdeithaswyr,
[45:48.000 -> 45:50.000] er mwyn iddo fod ar lefel gwahanol.
[45:50.000 -> 45:52.000] Roedd e'n cymryd gofyn i'w cymdeithaswyr
[45:52.000 -> 45:55.000] yn hytrach na'u rhoi'r dŵr i mewn i'w gweithio,
[45:55.000 -> 45:57.000] a'u gofyn iddo fod yn ymwneud â'u gwaith.
[45:57.000 -> 45:59.000] Felly rwy'n credu bod e'n gryf iawn
[45:59.000 -> 46:01.000] yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ddysgrifio yno,
[46:01.000 -> 46:02.000] fel ymgyrchwr,
[46:02.000 -> 46:03.000] ond mewn gwirionedd,
[46:03.000 -> 46:06.800] i ddweud ymwneud â'r pwysau, mae'n dynnu'r sefyllfa. Un peth rydw i'n eitha'i wneud that as a referee that actually just to admit a mistake diffuses a situation.
[46:06.800 -> 46:10.000] One thing I probably fancy doing in my last ever game as fourth official,
[46:10.000 -> 46:13.800] you know, when I decide to retire, I might offer the two technical areas
[46:13.800 -> 46:17.200] and the coaching staff all the advice that I've been saving up for 20 years.
[46:17.200 -> 46:19.400] What would be the big thing you'd want to share with them?
[46:19.400 -> 46:22.200] Well, I'd just like to point out every time a ball's not passed right
[46:22.200 -> 46:24.200] or a player doesn't mark somebody at a corner.
[46:24.200 -> 46:26.640] Or when a substitution doesn't work.
[46:26.640 -> 46:32.480] So that must be a real source of frustration, the fact that other people get the opportunity
[46:32.480 -> 46:34.240] to share their thoughts on a game.
[46:34.240 -> 46:40.040] I think you go into a game knowing that people are going to... it's part of the psyche of
[46:40.040 -> 46:44.120] the elite environment, isn't it? I know I mentioned before that rugby has a different
[46:44.120 -> 46:46.720] culture. It's even evident in international rugby now.
[46:46.720 -> 46:51.120] The South African coach in the Lions tour was, you know,
[46:51.640 -> 46:56.120] seen to be trying to influence officials quite through an ingenious way,
[46:56.280 -> 46:58.240] becoming a water carrier, you know,
[46:58.240 -> 47:00.920] so it's creeping into lots of different kinds of sports.
[47:00.960 -> 47:02.680] So everybody's always looking for that extra edge.
[47:02.680 -> 47:11.040] But I think our, our challenge as officials is to, like I said, be one step ahead. If people want to try to, then fine.
[47:11.040 -> 47:16.320] But we need to have strategies in place to stop that affecting us.
[47:16.320 -> 47:20.880] I remember reading a brilliant story years ago about Ferguson when he used to go into
[47:20.880 -> 47:24.640] the referees before European games and see if he could test the pressure of the ball.
[47:24.640 -> 47:25.040] And when he was doing it, he'd sort of be saying to them, oh, their wingers are fast pan roedd yn mynd i'r rhefwyr cyn i'r Games Ewropeaidd a gofyn i'w gweithredu'r pwysau o'r ball.
[47:25.040 -> 47:26.920] Ac pan roedd yn ei wneud, roedd yn dweud i'w gilydd
[47:26.920 -> 47:30.400] ei bod yn gyflym ac yn rhaid iddo gael ei gwybod o'r ffwrdd yma heddiw.
[47:30.400 -> 47:34.320] Roedd yn ceisio arwain ein gwybodaethau
[47:34.320 -> 47:35.920] mewn ffordd ddwyieithog.
[47:35.920 -> 47:37.920] Ond mae gennych chi'r dichotomi hwn o
[47:37.920 -> 47:39.760] eich bod chi eisiau iddyn nhw ddeall eich bod chi'n dynol
[47:39.760 -> 47:41.320] ac felly'n ddifrifol,
[47:41.320 -> 47:43.120] ond mae gennych chi hefyd
[47:43.120 -> 47:45.040] i'ch gwylio'ch hunain o'u gwneud i'w ddefnyddio. Felly, pan fyddwch chi'n stopio'r proses o gyfweliad fallible, but you've also got to cocoon yourself away from them trying to
[47:45.040 -> 47:49.840] influence you. So when would you stop that process of interacting with a
[47:49.840 -> 47:52.920] manager or a player, you know, on a game day?
[47:52.920 -> 47:55.240] Yeah, so I think there's a time and a place for everything.
[47:55.240 -> 48:01.680] So, you know, there's very predefined times for meetings. So an hour before is
[48:01.680 -> 48:08.960] the meeting of the manager or team reps. So at that moment in time, you're engaging there, but from then, you have
[48:08.960 -> 48:10.920] no interaction with people.
[48:10.920 -> 48:15.640] You're in your own little bubble in terms of preparing for you getting changed and
[48:15.680 -> 48:20.360] warming up and talking through your last minute bits and bobs with the guys.
[48:21.400 -> 48:26.560] And then very rarely now, certainly over the pandemic times, it's been very rare
[48:26.560 -> 48:31.000] that you've actually had post-match interaction with people. But I think sometimes that's
[48:31.000 -> 48:35.160] probably not always the best time for people to interact. You see that in media interviews,
[48:35.160 -> 48:38.000] don't you? It's not always the best time to be interviewing a player or a manager after
[48:38.000 -> 48:39.000] a game.
[48:39.000 -> 48:43.400] And what's your process after a game for reviewing your own performance? Because again, I'm thinking
[48:43.400 -> 48:49.840] about this from the perspective of people who are not referees, but want to learn about how they can review their own performances
[48:49.840 -> 48:52.120] with absolute honesty for themselves a little bit better.
[48:52.120 -> 48:53.200] What, what do you go through?
[48:53.880 -> 48:54.080] Yeah.
[48:54.080 -> 48:59.240] So I think going through the decisions that are scrutinized the most, and we,
[48:59.280 -> 49:03.880] and we know what they are because they're, they're very plain to see following games.
[49:04.480 -> 49:07.680] You need, you're needing to evaluate those objectively.
[49:08.280 -> 49:15.080] And so not necessarily taking on board everything that's said on the analysis
[49:15.080 -> 49:17.800] shows on, you know, anybody who chooses to read social media.
[49:17.800 -> 49:22.840] So you won't read the papers before a game, but will you watch the TV coverage
[49:22.920 -> 49:24.800] and the reviews afterwards?
[49:24.800 -> 49:25.000] Very rarely. Will you watch the TV coverage and reviews afterwards?
[49:25.000 -> 49:25.840] Very rarely.
[49:26.720 -> 49:28.520] Because we have our own,
[49:28.520 -> 49:31.400] we have access to all the footage
[49:31.400 -> 49:32.720] that we need through our own system.
[49:32.720 -> 49:36.840] So it's more important for me to work out
[49:36.840 -> 49:40.000] have I made the most accurate and best decision
[49:40.000 -> 49:41.760] in that particular situation.
[49:41.760 -> 49:44.320] And there are plenty of times where I haven't.
[49:44.320 -> 49:46.600] And what do you do in those situations
[49:46.600 -> 49:47.840] to make sure you learn?
[49:47.840 -> 49:50.160] So like I said, it's more about trying to prevent
[49:50.160 -> 49:52.000] those mistakes happening again.
[49:52.000 -> 49:55.600] So you will never eradicate the subjective element
[49:55.600 -> 49:56.960] of decision-making.
[49:58.160 -> 50:00.520] It's very rare that you have a situation,
[50:00.520 -> 50:02.480] particularly in an elite match,
[50:02.480 -> 50:05.440] where you get 100% total agreement
[50:05.440 -> 50:10.520] on the on the right outcome but everybody's obsessed with is it right or
[50:10.520 -> 50:18.120] is it wrong and everybody forgets that 80-90% falls into that grey zone a lot of the time.
[50:18.120 -> 50:20.160] So who do you have people you speak to then?
[50:20.160 -> 50:23.320] So that's a select group of people whose opinion you really value?
[50:23.320 -> 50:29.120] So it'll be obviously speaking to the two lads that I work with on a regular basis, Gary
[50:29.120 -> 50:33.040] and Adam, and even between the three of us, sometimes we don't agree. You've always got
[50:33.040 -> 50:38.400] to try and keep that clarity in your mind to work out, okay, I have made this bad error
[50:38.400 -> 50:45.400] here, so I need to make sure when I go into my next game, I'm not doing that again.
[50:45.400 -> 50:47.840] And how, if you've had two or three games running
[50:47.840 -> 50:50.360] where you've made mistakes that you're unhappy with,
[50:50.360 -> 50:52.720] how do you not allow that to get you down
[50:52.720 -> 50:55.000] or to lead to you asking questions of yourself,
[50:55.000 -> 50:57.000] whether you're good enough?
[50:57.000 -> 51:01.320] Well, I think it's impossible not to get frustrated
[51:01.320 -> 51:03.000] and down a little bit about it.
[51:03.000 -> 51:07.240] So it's either a case of detaching yourself altogether
[51:07.240 -> 51:11.120] from what you're doing and getting away from football.
[51:11.120 -> 51:12.680] So thinking along,
[51:14.000 -> 51:17.880] working on the mindfulness aspect of stuff.
[51:17.880 -> 51:19.680] So does that involve friends, family?
[51:19.680 -> 51:23.320] Does that involve just going for a walk with the dog?
[51:23.320 -> 51:26.120] But then you've obviously then got to focus
[51:26.120 -> 51:27.880] then when you get going back onto the field
[51:27.880 -> 51:29.960] and that's probably the bigger challenge is
[51:29.960 -> 51:31.840] if you have come off the back of two or three games
[51:31.840 -> 51:33.640] where you've made a mistake or you've had to go
[51:33.640 -> 51:35.760] to the screen a number of times
[51:35.760 -> 51:37.520] because you've had some difficult matches,
[51:37.520 -> 51:40.920] you've then got to start creating that belief again
[51:40.920 -> 51:43.080] to start afresh.
[51:43.920 -> 51:44.760] It's going to-
[51:44.760 -> 51:45.400] How do you do that?
[51:49.800 -> 51:50.600] A lot of it for me personally comes down to that self-talk and
[51:56.400 -> 51:57.400] trying to totally forget about what's happened before.
[51:59.600 -> 52:01.400] So what sort of things do you say to yourself then, Anthony? I just whitter away to myself.
[52:02.800 -> 52:07.680] Just purely about being focused and as a game's going on,
[52:07.680 -> 52:11.680] I just like to commentate to myself effectively.
[52:12.360 -> 52:12.880] Right.
[52:13.880 -> 52:17.520] Of what I'm seeing, what I'm going to do,
[52:17.520 -> 52:19.200] or if I'm not going to do it.
[52:19.760 -> 52:25.000] And if I'm doing that, it also helps the rest of the team
[52:26.280 -> 52:28.160] understanding what I'm doing.
[52:28.160 -> 52:30.280] Because I think actually some of the worst mistakes
[52:30.280 -> 52:35.280] I've made over the years is when I've metaphorically
[52:35.320 -> 52:38.560] jumped in two feet, shot from the hip,
[52:38.560 -> 52:43.220] just pulled a decision out of nowhere
[52:43.220 -> 52:44.880] that absolutely nobody understands.
[52:44.880 -> 52:48.160] Can you give us maybe a decision that you still reflect on now and think,
[52:48.160 -> 52:51.920] silly idiot getting that wrong, because I know that people will listen to this and go...
[52:51.920 -> 52:52.920] How long have we got?
[52:52.920 -> 52:57.120] Yeah, but it's all very well Anthony sitting there and telling us about his processes and
[52:57.120 -> 53:00.320] asking us to understand refereeing more, but what about this and what about that?
[53:00.320 -> 53:02.280] And they will start to sort of cite specifics.
[53:02.280 -> 53:05.840] And I think it's powerful if you could just
[53:05.840 -> 53:09.720] share with us a moment that went wrong and why.
[53:09.720 -> 53:15.960] So most of the time you make an incorrect decision on the field because your position
[53:15.960 -> 53:16.960] is wrong.
[53:16.960 -> 53:17.960] Right.
[53:17.960 -> 53:21.240] Your angle and your view's not as good as it could be.
[53:21.240 -> 53:25.000] So there's a really good example from a few years ago at Swansea
[53:25.000 -> 53:31.000] where I gave a penalty for handball and it was actually handball by the attacker.
[53:31.000 -> 53:40.000] But because in that particular moment I'd lost concentration, I was lazy, I'd got totally the wrong position,
[53:40.000 -> 53:45.960] the angle you're looking at is, it just makes it look like the defender handballed it.
[53:45.960 -> 53:49.840] Now people listening to that will go, well that's just a ridiculous way of explaining it.
[53:49.840 -> 53:55.440] And how can you not see that the handball is by the attacker?
[53:55.880 -> 54:02.960] Well, my challenge to anybody who thinks that is to truly understand the process you've got to go through.
[54:03.800 -> 54:05.240] Give it a go go because it would
[54:05.240 -> 54:10.280] even happen in junior football, you will sometimes totally misjudge something in
[54:10.280 -> 54:15.760] a split second and so that example at Swansea was down to
[54:15.760 -> 54:18.480] laziness and poor positioning, pure and simple.
[54:18.480 -> 54:23.080] And how does the scrutiny process work after the game because I think this is
[54:23.080 -> 54:26.080] something that also leans towards
[54:26.080 -> 54:29.880] the resilience you have to have to do your job. I mean, you literally have someone give
[54:29.880 -> 54:33.600] you a mark, right, and tell you how well you've done on that day.
[54:33.600 -> 54:39.460] We have two people give us a mark, not just one. So we have two parallel analysis systems.
[54:39.460 -> 54:47.000] So we have a technical system that grades every single decision that's made in the match, so you end up with a percentage
[54:47.000 -> 54:54.840] accuracy. But then we have the parallel system is run by the Premier League, so it's not
[54:54.840 -> 55:01.400] a technical evaluation. That's where an ex-player or an ex-manager is there looking at your
[55:01.400 -> 55:07.320] performance from a playing perspective. And that system is what the clubs feed into as well.
[55:07.320 -> 55:10.520] They have a say in what their opinions are.
[55:10.520 -> 55:13.760] And so everybody's got an opinion on what's going on.
[55:13.760 -> 55:16.320] And sometimes those opinions are formed,
[55:16.320 -> 55:21.240] which don't actually fit in with what the laws of the game are.
[55:21.240 -> 55:24.360] We might be using interpretation from four years ago.
[55:24.360 -> 55:27.000] So it's all well and good scrutinizing,
[55:27.000 -> 55:29.560] but you still have to have that balance to
[55:31.040 -> 55:35.920] truly understand what's being analyzed and why.
[55:35.920 -> 55:38.000] See, but what I find fascinating here is that
[55:38.000 -> 55:40.440] we're talking a lot about mistakes that you've made
[55:40.440 -> 55:47.040] and errors, and yet 80 to 85% of your decision making is correct and is right.
[55:47.040 -> 55:51.720] So how much time do you spend looking at what you've done well before you start to look
[55:51.720 -> 55:52.720] at where you could improve?
[55:52.720 -> 55:54.760] I spend a lot of time, not many other people do.
[55:54.760 -> 55:59.200] It's higher than that though, because I know you have a number at the end of a season.
[55:59.200 -> 56:00.560] Figure wise I'm not too sure.
[56:00.560 -> 56:02.280] It's up in the 99%.
[56:02.280 -> 56:05.040] But you're right and it goes back to what Jake was saying before.
[56:05.040 -> 56:08.640] Everybody only focuses on the right and the wrong.
[56:08.640 -> 56:09.480] Yeah.
[56:09.480 -> 56:10.320] Yeah.
[56:10.320 -> 56:12.120] And if one decision's wrong,
[56:13.920 -> 56:15.080] that one decision,
[56:16.080 -> 56:17.280] if we're being brutally honest,
[56:17.280 -> 56:21.920] that one decision hasn't cost the result.
[56:21.920 -> 56:23.840] It's not cost the team the result.
[56:23.840 -> 56:30.000] It might have played a part, but there's lots of other facets that have contributed to the result.
[56:30.000 -> 56:45.040] Players missing an open goal, players missing a penalty, substitution or tactical changes, the emotional reactions of making people do things wrong. So again, I'm not saying we don't have some kind of impact
[56:45.040 -> 56:49.640] in terms of making a wrong decision, of course we do, but again that
[56:49.640 -> 56:56.440] balance, one refereeing decision doesn't settle the match.
[56:56.440 -> 57:00.080] You know what this is making me think about is that I've done 10 years of
[57:00.080 -> 57:05.040] presenting football programs, maybe 60 or 70 games a year, that's over 500 games of
[57:05.040 -> 57:08.920] football I've hosted, I don't think we've ever analysed a brilliant
[57:08.920 -> 57:12.600] refereeing decision and talked about how on earth did he see that, how did he get
[57:12.600 -> 57:15.560] that right, how did he deal with the pressure from the players, how did he
[57:15.560 -> 57:18.840] cope with the crowd in that moment, how did he communicate his decision to get
[57:18.840 -> 57:21.520] the players back onside? Never, not once.
[57:21.520 -> 57:24.320] There's two or three examples from last weekend's matches where goals have been
[57:24.320 -> 57:25.000] scored because the referees allowed play to continue after something's happened Never, not once. There's two or three examples from last weekend's matches where goals have been scored
[57:25.000 -> 57:29.200] because the referees allowed play to continue after something's happened
[57:29.200 -> 57:31.400] and the team's benefited from it.
[57:31.400 -> 57:33.400] But nobody wants to talk about it.
[57:33.400 -> 57:39.600] So what message would you like to share, given this opportunity, with people?
[57:39.600 -> 57:43.200] How would you like us to view referees?
[57:43.200 -> 57:49.280] More understanding and more empathy. So yes, mistakes are made
[57:49.280 -> 57:56.560] and we're far from perfect, but there's many other facets that contribute to a result of
[57:56.560 -> 58:02.880] a football match. And so before you start trying to blame one individual, maybe try
[58:02.880 -> 58:05.360] and consider, very difficult, I appreciate,
[58:05.360 -> 58:13.400] objectively after a team's loss, but consider the things that go into what's been decided
[58:13.400 -> 58:18.740] and try and understand why something's been done. And of course, people will always use
[58:18.740 -> 58:24.900] the argument about consistency. People highlight a catalogue of situations that may have gone
[58:24.900 -> 58:26.160] against one team, but again, that's sometimes very biasly slanted. Mae pobl yn cyhoeddi catalog o lefelau a allai wedi mynd ymlaen ag un tîm,
[58:26.160 -> 58:29.600] ond yna eto mae hynny weithiau yn ymwneud â'r cyflawni.
[58:29.600 -> 58:31.840] Ond eto mae hynny'n dod i'r hyn rydyn ni'n ei ddweud cyn iawn,
[58:31.840 -> 58:33.760] pan fyddwch chi'n dehumaniseo rhywun,
[58:33.760 -> 58:35.840] rydyn ni'n delio, felly dydyn ni ddim yn gweld beth ydynt wedi'i wneud,
[58:35.840 -> 58:39.280] rydyn ni'n gadael ei ddifrifio a'i ddweud bod yn ymwneud â'ch tîm,
[58:39.280 -> 58:41.760] neu ydyn ni'n ei ddifrifio fel, oh, roedden nhw'n cael dydd da.
[58:41.760 -> 58:44.000] Felly rwy'n credu yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ddysgrifio yma Anthony
[58:44.000 -> 58:46.600] yw pan fyddwch chi'n gweld y Felly rwy'n credu'r hyn rydych chi'n ei ddysgrifio yno Anthony yw pan edrych chi ar y ddewis ymhellach.
[58:46.600 -> 58:49.880] Rwy'n clywed y bydd y rheferydd yn siarad am Brian Clough
[58:49.880 -> 58:51.080] o'r dydd hwnnw,
[58:51.080 -> 58:54.040] a'i ddweud i'w tîm Nottingham Forest
[58:54.040 -> 58:55.000] y byddwch chi'n rhaid iddo well
[58:55.000 -> 58:56.640] na'r rheferydd mwyaf yn y gwaith.
[58:56.640 -> 58:57.640] Mae'n rhaid i chi ddathlu'r rheferydd
[58:57.640 -> 58:59.080] gyda chymorth a chyfarchiad
[58:59.080 -> 59:00.960] ac fe fyddwn ni'n troi unrhyw un o'i chwaraewyr
[59:00.960 -> 59:02.480] ar gyfer ymdrech ar y rheferydd
[59:02.480 -> 59:04.080] neu ar y cymorth.
[59:04.080 -> 59:08.400] A oes unrhyw rheferydd yno sydd â philosofi syth Are there any managers out there that have a similar philosophy to what Clough did,
[59:08.400 -> 59:10.400] that do have that empathy?
[59:10.400 -> 59:14.560] There's plenty of people that have empathy. Plenty of people that have empathy.
[59:14.560 -> 59:17.840] I think sometimes it's just a cheap shot to say,
[59:17.840 -> 59:20.000] you're rubbish or you've cost us the game.
[59:20.000 -> 59:20.560] Yeah.
[59:20.560 -> 59:28.000] I get that because, like I said before, not many people like taking responsibility straight
[59:28.000 -> 59:30.160] away for what's happened.
[59:30.160 -> 59:32.200] We're exactly the same.
[59:32.200 -> 59:38.560] We will defend a decision to the hill in the initial stages, but that is human nature.
[59:38.560 -> 59:46.160] It's only with time and a clear head that you'll truly recognise what it is.
[59:46.160 -> 59:49.520] And it's very easy for somebody to take to a keyboard and say,
[59:49.520 -> 59:52.320] well, this is a dreadful decision or this and that.
[59:52.320 -> 59:59.120] And this applies to not only fans, managers, coaches, ex-referees as well.
[59:59.120 -> 01:00:01.480] I always like to take things outside of the football environment
[01:00:01.480 -> 01:00:03.320] and take it into a work context.
[01:00:03.320 -> 01:00:08.640] So whatever job you do, would you find that acceptable behavior towards you in your
[01:00:08.640 -> 01:00:14.360] workplace? I very much doubt you would. Thank you for sharing those
[01:00:14.360 -> 01:00:18.440] reflections. We've reached the point where we move on to our quickfire
[01:00:18.440 -> 01:00:21.680] questions and this is going to be interesting. The first one we go with is
[01:00:21.680 -> 01:00:29.120] what are the three non-negotiables that you and the people around you need to buy into? The three pillars of which you live by.
[01:00:29.120 -> 01:00:32.120] Okay, so honesty, humility and commitment.
[01:00:32.120 -> 01:00:36.380] Very nice. If you could go back to one moment in your life, what would it be and why?
[01:00:36.380 -> 01:00:39.380] Probably work harder at school.
[01:00:39.380 -> 01:00:40.380] Would you?
[01:00:40.380 -> 01:00:58.000] Yeah, most definitely because actually the reason I say that now is because with obviously both our girls now progressing through A-levels and into university and as a parent, you find yourself saying you need to do this, you need to work hard and you're thinking, well, I never did that when I was that age.
[01:00:58.000 -> 01:01:07.800] We can all relate. We can all relate. How important is legacy to you? Legacy? So I think it's
[01:01:07.800 -> 01:01:15.360] important that we have a positive impact on other people. So I think it's
[01:01:15.360 -> 01:01:22.120] important that we can instill some, that I instill values and strong ethics in
[01:01:22.120 -> 01:01:26.600] not only my kids but people that I have contact with not only
[01:01:26.600 -> 01:01:33.240] in sport but in the local community. And just the bottom line of trying to help other people
[01:01:33.240 -> 01:01:34.240] get better.
[01:01:34.240 -> 01:01:38.680] What's been the biggest sacrifice you've made in pursuit of high performance and would you
[01:01:38.680 -> 01:01:40.000] make it again?
[01:01:40.000 -> 01:01:49.520] I think it's not the sacrifice I make, it's probably the sacrifice your family make. Because you end up away from home a significant amount of time.
[01:01:49.760 -> 01:01:55.040] And even when you're at home, you might be in your own world, either dealing with
[01:01:55.040 -> 01:01:59.960] something you've made a mistake on and trying to recover from it, or you feel
[01:01:59.960 -> 01:02:02.480] things are going that well that you're wrapped up in your own little bubble and
[01:02:02.480 -> 01:02:06.720] you're kind of neglecting what the family needs. So I would say the
[01:02:06.720 -> 01:02:12.000] family probably lose out on more than or sacrifice more than what I would
[01:02:12.000 -> 01:02:13.480] sacrifice personally.
[01:02:13.480 -> 01:02:16.960] And our final question which is kind of your last message
[01:02:16.960 -> 01:02:20.720] really to people that are listening to this and we frame it as what's your one
[01:02:20.720 -> 01:02:24.920] golden rule to living a high-performance life?
[01:02:24.920 -> 01:02:25.000] Having no fear. At all? what's your one golden rule to living a high-performance life?
[01:02:25.000 -> 01:02:27.000] Having no fear.
[01:02:27.000 -> 01:02:28.000] At all?
[01:02:28.000 -> 01:02:33.000] So, have no fear at all of making a mistake or admitting you're wrong.
[01:02:33.000 -> 01:02:35.000] That has been a fascinating conversation.
[01:02:35.000 -> 01:02:38.000] When you think that we've gone through the processes that are involved,
[01:02:38.000 -> 01:02:42.000] the scrutiny, the sacrifice, the moments that have shaped you along the way,
[01:02:42.000 -> 01:02:46.120] I think to hear a current professional referee
[01:02:46.120 -> 01:02:49.000] talking in this way, sharing the challenges,
[01:02:49.000 -> 01:02:51.080] talking about the need for more empathy
[01:02:51.080 -> 01:02:52.300] and more understanding,
[01:02:53.220 -> 01:02:56.120] I'm just left with two overriding emotions, really.
[01:02:56.120 -> 01:02:58.720] The first one is a huge thanks to you
[01:02:58.720 -> 01:02:59.840] for being brave enough to do it.
[01:02:59.840 -> 01:03:01.520] And I think, you know, a lot of people
[01:03:01.520 -> 01:03:03.040] necessarily wouldn't want to put themselves
[01:03:03.040 -> 01:03:06.960] in this position, but I'm just left thinking we need to hear more.
[01:03:06.960 -> 01:03:10.520] We need to hear referees more often, share their frustrations,
[01:03:10.520 -> 01:03:13.160] share their decision-making, share their challenges,
[01:03:13.160 -> 01:03:16.520] because it's only through shared experience
[01:03:16.520 -> 01:03:18.680] that we will all have more empathy for each other.
[01:03:18.680 -> 01:03:21.720] We can't have empathy for people we don't understand.
[01:03:21.720 -> 01:03:26.000] And so anything that any of you can do to help us understand you more
[01:03:26.680 -> 01:03:30.120] Will be will be good for the world of the referee. I'm certain
[01:03:30.640 -> 01:03:32.640] Thanks for having us. Thank you
[01:03:43.640 -> 01:03:50.640] Damien Jake, I really just hope that people come to that, not with a mindset of, oh, but he's a referee,
[01:03:50.640 -> 01:03:54.120] I'm going to disagree with everything and I'm going to point out the games I remember
[01:03:54.120 -> 01:03:55.120] where he made mistakes.
[01:03:55.120 -> 01:03:59.240] I hope that they listen to that and then think, you know what, of course he's made mistakes
[01:03:59.240 -> 01:04:01.240] because we've all made mistakes.
[01:04:01.240 -> 01:04:02.240] Everybody's flawed.
[01:04:02.240 -> 01:04:04.400] And maybe we just, maybe that's the start.
[01:04:04.400 -> 01:04:07.520] It certainly isn't going to change things in any great depth,
[01:04:07.520 -> 01:04:11.600] but hopefully that's just the start of us talking about the
[01:04:11.600 -> 01:04:13.560] role of a referee in a different way.
[01:04:13.560 -> 01:04:14.400] Yeah, definitely.
[01:04:14.400 -> 01:04:18.240] I think it kept coming back to the three stages of humility
[01:04:18.240 -> 01:04:20.600] that we've spoke about on the podcast before.
[01:04:20.600 -> 01:04:24.080] Stage one is get beyond peak idiot stage as fast as you can.
[01:04:24.080 -> 01:04:27.800] Accept that these are referees that are human, that they're going to make mistakes.
[01:04:27.800 -> 01:04:31.400] And if we can accept that, we get into stage two, the valley of humility,
[01:04:31.400 -> 01:04:38.400] where we look at them and empathize. We see that they're taking on huge decisions at a fast pace,
[01:04:38.400 -> 01:04:42.800] you know, with a huge amount of scrutiny. And then the third stage is we could then have the,
[01:04:42.800 -> 01:04:47.760] we're at the hill of knowledge where we can understand that sometimes mistakes happen, but they're fallible,
[01:04:47.760 -> 01:04:48.920] but they're doing their best.
[01:04:48.920 -> 01:04:52.440] But as you said, 99% of the decisions you make
[01:04:52.440 -> 01:04:53.560] are the correct ones.
[01:04:53.560 -> 01:04:54.840] And I've still come back to the fact
[01:04:54.840 -> 01:04:56.360] that I can do a better job.
[01:04:56.360 -> 01:04:58.240] And the pundits I work with can do a better job.
[01:04:58.240 -> 01:05:00.480] And the media at large can do a better job.
[01:05:00.480 -> 01:05:03.320] And the football fans generally can do a better job
[01:05:03.320 -> 01:05:09.920] at being more tolerant with referees and having less opinion and more empathy. But I still believe
[01:05:09.920 -> 01:05:14.600] fundamentally there needs to be a change with regards to the referees being
[01:05:14.600 -> 01:05:18.960] allowed to talk in that way and to share in that way. I honestly think if they
[01:05:18.960 -> 01:05:24.680] were allowed maybe two or three days after a game to release a video where
[01:05:24.680 -> 01:05:27.760] they share what went on in the game. So Mercedes Formula One team
[01:05:27.780 -> 01:05:32.300] They do a brilliant weekend debrief where the lead race engineer from Mercedes goes
[01:05:32.460 -> 01:05:38.620] Okay, guys, this is what went down this weekend and sometimes they've blown the race. They've messed up the strategy
[01:05:38.620 -> 01:05:41.900] They've lost a Grand Prix, right, but they go right said this is where we lost it
[01:05:41.900 -> 01:05:43.660] This was what we thought was gonna happen
[01:05:43.660 -> 01:05:46.500] This is what actually happened and this is where we made a mistake, right, so this is where we lost it. This was what we thought was going to happen. This is what actually happened. And this is where we made a mistake, right?
[01:05:46.500 -> 01:05:51.300] If the best Formula One team in the world in recent seasons can do that,
[01:05:51.300 -> 01:05:56.200] why can't referees come out on a Wednesday, filmed by the official,
[01:05:56.200 -> 01:05:59.400] you know, association, so it's safe and it's controlled.
[01:05:59.400 -> 01:06:01.700] And they say, here's the breakdown for the weekend.
[01:06:01.700 -> 01:06:06.520] I think it'd be amazing because again, that phrase that Anthony spoke about,
[01:06:06.520 -> 01:06:09.640] it makes me personal rather than dehumanize them.
[01:06:09.640 -> 01:06:12.400] And I think if you see that these are people like us
[01:06:12.400 -> 01:06:15.440] that care passionately, that work incredibly hard
[01:06:15.440 -> 01:06:17.280] and that are sometimes fallible,
[01:06:17.280 -> 01:06:19.560] I think there's not one of us would then,
[01:06:19.560 -> 01:06:22.440] once the emotion of a game has gone out of it,
[01:06:22.440 -> 01:06:25.840] have any failure to be able to empathize and
[01:06:25.840 -> 01:06:30.720] understand. So no, I think anything that sort of brings the human to this aspect
[01:06:30.720 -> 01:06:34.220] is a big part of high performance in any domain.
[01:06:34.220 -> 01:06:38.260] And in this instance we're talking about a referee, but actually people need to
[01:06:38.260 -> 01:06:41.440] understand this is about anyone. You know, the person that you share an office with,
[01:06:41.440 -> 01:06:48.240] the colleague that you don't get on with, the pupil at school that you can't control, the teacher at school that you don't like.
[01:06:48.240 -> 01:06:52.440] You know, let's take Anthony's story, former prison officer who was an expert in restraint
[01:06:52.440 -> 01:06:57.720] techniques, a parent, someone who obviously wanted to be a footballer and didn't make
[01:06:57.720 -> 01:07:03.640] it, someone who's had to have the graft and the determination to be a referee at international
[01:07:03.640 -> 01:07:09.000] level, someone who dealt with what appeared looked like it was going to be the death of a footballer on a football field.
[01:07:09.000 -> 01:07:12.000] All of these things is what makes him Anthony Taylor.
[01:07:12.000 -> 01:07:15.000] But we don't see Anthony Taylor, we see the ref.
[01:07:15.000 -> 01:07:21.000] Yeah, and I suppose if you take that, that's a dangerous stereotype in anything when we talk about people.
[01:07:21.000 -> 01:07:27.880] If you were to just describe somebody based on their race or their gender, It's the thought of it's abhorrent to anyone listening to this
[01:07:27.880 -> 01:07:31.400] that of course you wouldn't make a judgment based on that and yet that's
[01:07:31.400 -> 01:07:33.400] what we're doing when it's just a referee.
[01:07:33.400 -> 01:07:34.400] Based on his job yeah?
[01:07:34.400 -> 01:07:37.400] Yeah and it's so easy then to fall into a trap and make him sweeping
[01:07:37.400 -> 01:07:42.400] generalizations and stereotypes that bear no relation to the reality behind it.
[01:07:42.400 -> 01:07:47.680] And I'll tell you what, more tolerance, more understanding, more empathy, I guarantee you
[01:07:47.680 -> 01:07:52.480] there'll be a correlation between that and more correct decisions because there will
[01:07:52.480 -> 01:07:54.920] be no decisions taken in fear.
[01:07:54.920 -> 01:07:56.520] Yes, absolutely.
[01:07:56.520 -> 01:08:00.880] And hopefully I also think that if we could see that at the top level, the ripple effects
[01:08:00.880 -> 01:08:05.920] down to grassroots, where it's young's young boys and girls that are trying to
[01:08:05.920 -> 01:08:11.280] just keep fit at weekend, be involved in sport, don't have to be demonized or abused by people
[01:08:11.280 -> 01:08:15.440] on the touchline thinking that's acceptable. So there you go, I hope that's given you plenty of
[01:08:15.440 -> 01:08:21.200] food for thought at home. Thanks Damo. Thanks Jake. We've now reached the point of the show
[01:08:21.200 -> 01:08:26.360] where Damian and I get to talk about you the people that listen to high-performance
[01:08:26.360 -> 01:08:32.160] So we had a lovely message on Instagram from a guy called Jack Jack Forster. He said I'm an avid listener of your podcast
[01:08:32.160 -> 01:08:37.000] I'm gonna be attending the live show in London, which is on Wednesday if you're listening to this on Monday
[01:08:37.200 -> 01:08:39.520] He says it would be amazing if you could do one of those
[01:08:40.320 -> 01:08:47.400] Everyday conversations about people doing amazing things who use what they learn and take it to personally push to their own limits
[01:08:47.400 -> 01:08:52.160] So Jack is doing something. He tells us on Instagram about race across America
[01:08:52.160 -> 01:08:56.040] It's a non-stop ride from the west coast of America to the east coast, which is
[01:08:57.560 -> 01:09:01.000] 3175 miles and one part of the ride has an elevation of
[01:09:02.080 -> 01:09:09.600] 170,000 feet and he says on the message if you want to scare people that's five times higher than Everest Wow firstly
[01:09:09.600 -> 01:09:13.080] why are we doing it well to achieve a huge goal and to make people understand
[01:09:13.080 -> 01:09:16.740] that you can break the mold and you can set limits and you can achieve personal
[01:09:16.740 -> 01:09:21.120] greatness and also well done to him he's raising loads of money for Paul Bournemouth
[01:09:21.120 -> 01:09:28.000] and Christchurch stroke unit for some vital equipment that they need. So Jack thank you very much for reaching out to us and
[01:09:28.000 -> 01:09:31.720] pinging us a message and Jack thanks for joining us as well on the podcast here
[01:09:31.720 -> 01:09:35.700] he is Jack how you doing? Very well thanks for having me guys. I'd love to
[01:09:35.700 -> 01:09:39.060] know because you said on your message about the everyday things that people
[01:09:39.060 -> 01:09:43.300] use to push themselves to to the limits what do you believe you're going to be
[01:09:43.300 -> 01:09:45.080] diving into or drawing
[01:09:45.080 -> 01:09:49.440] on when you're taking part in what sounds like the most remarkable adventure? Because
[01:09:49.440 -> 01:09:54.380] I think that it'd be great for the listeners today to hear what you will delve into because
[01:09:54.380 -> 01:09:57.960] they may well find that they need to draw on similar reserves in their own lives.
[01:09:57.960 -> 01:10:05.960] For me, I'm quite a, like a family guy. I'm very driven, but I'm a very family guy as well. So it will be the, the
[01:10:05.960 -> 01:10:11.360] jaws of, right, we're suffering, we're suffering, but I've got my little boy at home and my
[01:10:11.360 -> 01:10:18.920] little boy is seven months old. So it's that kind of thing for me where I'm going to make
[01:10:18.920 -> 01:10:29.400] him proud. He'll be on the handlebars of my bike and I'll be doing something for him to say, look, you can do this. Anyone can do this. I'm not your average cyclist.
[01:10:29.440 -> 01:10:32.200] I'm 17 and a half stone. I'm six foot three.
[01:10:32.560 -> 01:10:34.840] Probably should be playing American football or rugby,
[01:10:35.320 -> 01:10:39.280] but in shoes I decide to wear Lycra and ride a bike across America.
[01:10:40.640 -> 01:10:41.560] And then through my personal,
[01:10:41.960 -> 01:10:46.680] my professional background of owning the gym in Portland, Bournemouth,
[01:10:46.680 -> 01:10:50.040] is that I push people every day.
[01:10:50.040 -> 01:10:55.680] So I hold myself accountable to those guys, where they hold themselves accountable to
[01:10:55.680 -> 01:10:58.760] me when I'm asking for them to deliver.
[01:10:58.760 -> 01:11:01.160] We're always coaching when they're training.
[01:11:01.160 -> 01:11:05.000] So if they're able then to see their coach going one step beyond driving, asking more felly os ydyn nhw'n gallu gweld eu hyfforddwr mynd ymlaen,
[01:11:05.000 -> 01:11:10.000] drifo, gofyn mwy o'u hunain, gallant yna gael eu gwybod i mi hefyd.
[01:11:10.000 -> 01:11:16.000] Roedd rhaid i ni ddweud y rhan o'ch newid sydd wedi'i ddysgu i ni, Jack,
[01:11:16.000 -> 01:11:21.000] lle rydych chi wedi siarad am y bydd 40% o'r bobl sy'n dechrau hyn yn y rhan yma,
[01:11:21.000 -> 01:11:25.920] nid yn ymlaen. Roeddwn i'n ymdrech i hynny o ran pam rydych chi wedi rhannu'r pysiad o wybodaeth of the people that start it never finish it. I was intrigued by that in terms of
[01:11:25.920 -> 01:11:27.840] why you shared that piece of information
[01:11:27.840 -> 01:11:32.160] and how you're gonna prepare to be in the 60%.
[01:11:32.160 -> 01:11:34.920] So my family are all,
[01:11:34.920 -> 01:11:36.680] like they're either serving Royal Marines
[01:11:36.680 -> 01:11:38.480] or former Royal Marines,
[01:11:38.480 -> 01:11:40.960] and that goes back to grandfathers
[01:11:40.960 -> 01:11:42.560] and great granddads as well.
[01:11:42.560 -> 01:11:45.720] So there's that mental resilience that is
[01:11:45.720 -> 01:11:50.840] just embedded within us. It can be within anybody, and I truly believe that. And that's
[01:11:50.840 -> 01:11:55.440] what we try and do at our gym. We show and we test people to say, hey, look, let's go
[01:11:55.440 -> 01:12:02.360] one further. So me and my brother are going to just dig deep on that and say, at the end
[01:12:02.360 -> 01:12:06.320] of the day, everything has to go downhill. It has
[01:12:06.320 -> 01:12:11.680] to stop climbing. Sooner or later, it's going to go from one day to two days. Just keep
[01:12:11.680 -> 01:12:16.120] turning the pedals, just keep putting the pedal in front, you know, and then when, you
[01:12:16.120 -> 01:12:19.480] know, cheerful, cheerfulness in the face of adversity is one of the, you know, the Royal
[01:12:19.480 -> 01:12:26.440] Marines sort of like mottos, as you would say, it will get better and the race will be done.
[01:12:26.440 -> 01:12:28.220] You know, the sun will shine.
[01:12:28.220 -> 01:12:30.120] It's just raining right now.
[01:12:30.120 -> 01:12:32.520] It's about having that smile on your face
[01:12:32.520 -> 01:12:35.040] because that will infect everybody else then.
[01:12:35.040 -> 01:12:36.120] Brilliant.
[01:12:36.120 -> 01:12:37.320] I'm going to give you a bit of advice,
[01:12:37.320 -> 01:12:41.440] not from me because this is not the sort of thing that I do,
[01:12:41.440 -> 01:12:43.200] but we're going to be joined on the podcast
[01:12:43.200 -> 01:12:45.560] in a few episodes time by a guy called ash Dykes
[01:12:45.560 -> 01:12:51.780] He's one of the most remarkable explorers to ever walk the the planet and this is what he told us
[01:12:51.780 -> 01:12:54.520] And I think this might be quite useful information for you Jack
[01:12:54.520 -> 01:12:58.060] This is what he told us about how he deals with really big challenges in front of him
[01:12:58.280 -> 01:13:01.600] Have a listen to an episode on its way very soon. I
[01:13:02.920 -> 01:13:05.440] Focused on those four days. I believe I can stay alive.
[01:13:05.440 -> 01:13:07.340] I believe I can walk to that next community,
[01:13:07.340 -> 01:13:08.960] which was guaranteed, it's confirmed,
[01:13:08.960 -> 01:13:11.760] not only water source, but a community of people.
[01:13:11.760 -> 01:13:14.680] And I still had four remaining days left.
[01:13:14.680 -> 01:13:16.960] And I'm a big believer of the law of attraction
[01:13:16.960 -> 01:13:19.560] and visualization, but I couldn't visualize four days.
[01:13:19.560 -> 01:13:22.840] I was in agony, but I could visualize a hundred meters.
[01:13:22.840 -> 01:13:24.600] And again, that's when the break in the goals
[01:13:24.600 -> 01:13:26.440] that I could see a hundred meters.
[01:13:26.440 -> 01:13:28.440] So there was no reason why I couldn't get her
[01:13:28.440 -> 01:13:31.260] from out of my trailer, strap my four point harness on,
[01:13:31.260 -> 01:13:34.080] walk for 100, maybe 200 meters if I was lucky
[01:13:34.080 -> 01:13:36.320] and then rest under the trailer again.
[01:13:36.320 -> 01:13:38.080] So that's some Explorer Ash Dykes.
[01:13:38.080 -> 01:13:40.720] You can expect his episode on the podcast very soon.
[01:13:40.720 -> 01:13:42.780] Useful information perhaps Jack,
[01:13:42.780 -> 01:13:46.800] for how you can see the individual challenge in
[01:13:46.800 -> 01:13:49.160] front of you rather than being daunted by the whole thing.
[01:13:49.160 -> 01:13:55.260] Yeah, no, so funny he says that as well because my dad breaks it down as well. When you're
[01:13:55.260 -> 01:14:00.400] in training for the Royal Marines or when you are doing this bike ride, it is, it's
[01:14:00.400 -> 01:14:03.920] the same kind of thing, but I got taught it differently. It's get to eight o'clock in
[01:14:03.920 -> 01:14:06.280] the morning, get to nine o'clock in the morning.
[01:14:06.280 -> 01:14:09.800] Yeah, that hits home quite hard, actually.
[01:14:09.800 -> 01:14:12.320] So tell us as well about your son,
[01:14:12.320 -> 01:14:15.520] because you're obviously going to use the desire
[01:14:15.520 -> 01:14:19.200] to be a great father and a great role model for him
[01:14:19.200 -> 01:14:20.400] as inspiration.
[01:14:20.400 -> 01:14:23.240] Tell us a little bit about how that can fuel you.
[01:14:24.960 -> 01:14:28.800] So, like my biggest inspiration and my biggest role
[01:14:28.800 -> 01:14:29.800] was my dad.
[01:14:29.800 -> 01:14:32.400] So, and you know, other people have different things,
[01:14:32.400 -> 01:14:34.680] but for what he's achieved in his career
[01:14:34.680 -> 01:14:37.520] and for what he stands for and for how he's brought
[01:14:37.520 -> 01:14:40.120] my sister, my brother and myself up,
[01:14:40.120 -> 01:14:42.720] he is my biggest role model.
[01:14:42.720 -> 01:14:47.120] And if I could be sort of like, I know it's cheesy to say,
[01:14:47.120 -> 01:14:53.840] but if I'm half the man my dad is, then my son, Kobe, is going to be absolutely fine.
[01:14:53.840 -> 01:14:56.880] But I want Kobe to be able to stand there and say,
[01:14:57.760 -> 01:15:02.400] my dad's done this. I just want him to be able to stand in front of people and say,
[01:15:02.400 -> 01:15:06.800] my dad's that, and he can do that. Sounds a bit cheesy, but it's just what drives me.
[01:15:06.800 -> 01:15:08.320] It's just to make him proud.
[01:15:08.320 -> 01:15:09.160] That's brilliant.
[01:15:09.160 -> 01:15:10.880] And look, I hope that you take the podcast with you.
[01:15:10.880 -> 01:15:13.440] I hope you're listening as you travel.
[01:15:13.440 -> 01:15:15.760] And you know, if you've got any dark or difficult times,
[01:15:15.760 -> 01:15:17.600] actually, if you've got any tough times on that climb,
[01:15:17.600 -> 01:15:18.720] which episode would you go to?
[01:15:18.720 -> 01:15:19.800] What would be your go-to?
[01:15:19.800 -> 01:15:20.880] Well, the Bear Grylls one,
[01:15:20.880 -> 01:15:22.000] but the John McAvoy one,
[01:15:22.000 -> 01:15:23.720] I keep listening to over and over.
[01:15:23.720 -> 01:15:30.480] I think it's because he's in that sporting background and for something I just I think is just his whole story just
[01:15:31.040 -> 01:15:37.840] hit home, well didn't hit home because I've not been a mastermind criminal but it's just something
[01:15:37.840 -> 01:15:42.400] to it just drawn me straight in and I've just taken so much from it so it'll be his podcast.
[01:15:43.040 -> 01:15:45.720] All of us on High Performance wish you the very best.
[01:15:45.720 -> 01:15:48.160] And where can we keep up with the progress and things?
[01:15:48.160 -> 01:15:51.840] So we've got our Instagram, it's called Pedals and Pasties
[01:15:51.840 -> 01:15:54.240] and then our GoFundMe page as well,
[01:15:54.240 -> 01:15:56.440] Jack and Alex take on race across America.
[01:15:56.440 -> 01:15:58.160] Brilliant, Pedals and Pasties, right.
[01:15:58.160 -> 01:16:00.040] People, check out their Instagram
[01:16:00.040 -> 01:16:03.800] and they're raising money for vital equipment
[01:16:03.800 -> 01:16:06.160] for a stroke unit at a hospital near them.
[01:16:06.160 -> 01:16:10.600] And I hope that that really is a successful trip
[01:16:10.600 -> 01:16:12.240] for you in many different ways.
[01:16:12.240 -> 01:16:13.320] Thank you. Thank you.
[01:16:14.320 -> 01:16:16.400] I love hearing from our listeners, Damien.
[01:16:16.400 -> 01:16:18.680] It kind of, it's just a really good connection
[01:16:18.680 -> 01:16:21.600] to the kinds of things that this podcast
[01:16:21.600 -> 01:16:22.420] is doing for people.
[01:16:22.420 -> 01:16:26.960] And actually I find it, it's quite good at focusing the mind on the kinds of guests and the kinds of questions that we need to be asking, isn't it? y mae'r podcast yn ei wneud i bobl. Ac yn wir, rwy'n teimlo ei fod yn dda yn cymryd ymchwil ar y math o gwestiynau
[01:16:26.960 -> 01:16:28.320] a'r math o gwestiynau y mae'n rhaid i ni
[01:16:28.320 -> 01:16:29.360] gofyn, nid?
[01:16:29.360 -> 01:16:30.200] Ie, yn siŵr.
[01:16:30.200 -> 01:16:31.640] Rwy'n teimlo'n wir iawn yn hynod o hynny
[01:16:31.640 -> 01:16:33.760] o'r bryd pan mae pobl yn cymryd ymweld â ni
[01:16:33.760 -> 01:16:35.200] i fynd ar y gyrfa hyfforddi,
[01:16:35.200 -> 01:16:35.920] dweud gyda Jack,
[01:16:35.920 -> 01:16:37.400] neu ar y dog walk,
[01:16:37.400 -> 01:16:39.120] neu weithiau ar eu cymwys,
[01:16:39.120 -> 01:16:40.560] neu rhywbeth fel hynny,
[01:16:40.560 -> 01:16:42.920] y byddent yn dewis cymryd ymchwil ymlaen
[01:16:42.920 -> 01:16:44.320] ac yn rhoi i ni ddod ymlaen gyda nhw,
[01:16:44.320 -> 01:17:09.000] mae'n byth yn wir iawn o hynny. Felly ie, rwy'n credu eich bod yn ddweud o'r gwaith. Rwy'nr cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymdeithasau a'r cymden, ac mae'n ddweud bod un o'i ffyrddau fawr yw'i ffyn. Nid yw'n ymwneud â'r hyn, oherwydd mae hynny'n brifysgol ac mae'n well ei wneud,
[01:17:09.000 -> 01:17:11.000] ac rwy'n gobeithio yw'n cymorth.
[01:17:11.000 -> 01:17:13.000] A oes yna dangoswydd arwain?
[01:17:13.000 -> 01:17:15.000] Ac pa ffyrdd o'i gwaith wedi'i wneud,
[01:17:15.000 -> 01:17:19.000] lle mae'r rhesymau i ni wneud pethau yw i'r cyhoeddiad o'r rhai eraill,
[01:17:19.000 -> 01:17:21.000] er mwyn i ni gael plant ein hunain?
[01:17:21.000 -> 01:17:24.000] Ie, rwy'n credu mai dyna'r pwynt da i chi, Jake,
[01:17:24.000 -> 01:17:26.120] yw'r ddweud hwnnw,
[01:17:26.120 -> 01:17:27.960] ddim yn rhoi'r clwyd i'ch hapus
[01:17:27.960 -> 01:17:29.560] yn y gofod o rywun arall.
[01:17:29.560 -> 01:17:31.480] Felly bydd yna amser, rwy'n siŵr,
[01:17:31.480 -> 01:17:35.280] lle bydd Jack's son, fel fydd fy hun,
[01:17:35.280 -> 01:17:36.560] ac fel eich hun,
[01:17:36.560 -> 01:17:37.440] byddwn yn ei wneud ar rai o'r cyfnod
[01:17:37.440 -> 01:17:39.360] lle maen nhw'n ymwneud â ni,
[01:17:39.360 -> 01:17:40.480] neu'n ein gysylltiadau,
[01:17:40.480 -> 01:17:42.880] neu maen nhw'n ymwneud ag es i ni.
[01:17:42.880 -> 01:17:43.680] Felly rwy'n credu,
[01:17:43.680 -> 01:18:06.720] dim ond deall, y byddwn yn rhaid i ni gael ein cyhoeddi neu'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd o'r hyn a fydd yn ymddangos yn y llwybrau. A'r ffrasau fawr y gynnal Phil Neville,
[01:18:06.720 -> 01:18:09.720] yw gwneud y mwyaf i gyd gyda'r hyn y mae gennych ynghylch y lle rydych chi.
[01:18:09.720 -> 01:18:11.920] Rwy'n credu mai un o'r pethau ddiddorol yw
[01:18:11.920 -> 01:18:15.360] mae'n llai i gael ymddygiad allanol,
[01:18:15.360 -> 01:18:18.320] oherwydd os ydych chi'n gallu sicrhau bod pob penderfyniad a phob dydd
[01:18:18.320 -> 01:18:23.120] y gallwch chi ei wneud yn y mwyaf i gyd gyda'r hyn y mae gennif ymddangos,
[01:18:23.120 -> 01:18:24.920] dydych chi ddim yn gallu gwneud mwy na hynny.
[01:18:24.920 -> 01:18:26.000] Felly, os ydych chi ddim yn gallu gwneud mwy na hynny.
[01:18:26.000 -> 01:18:28.000] Felly, efallai, os nad ydych chi'n cael yr arogan
[01:18:28.000 -> 01:18:30.000] rydych chi'n ceisio, neu os yw pobl yn eich arwain,
[01:18:30.000 -> 01:18:32.000] neu os ydych chi'n cael amser anodd gyda phobl
[01:18:32.000 -> 01:18:34.000] yn eich bywyd, os ydych chi'n gallu mynd yn ôl
[01:18:34.000 -> 01:18:36.000] i'r tri pilarau, y ffordd fwyaf y gallwch,
[01:18:36.000 -> 01:18:38.000] lle rydych chi yw gyda'r hyn rydych chi'n cael,
[01:18:38.000 -> 01:18:40.000] rwy'n credu ei fod yn arwain ar y cyfrif
[01:18:40.000 -> 01:18:42.000] ar unrhyw arrogan, oherwydd gallwch chi ddweud i'ch hun,
[01:18:42.000 -> 01:18:44.000] yn lwyr, beth mwy allaf i wneud?
[01:18:44.000 -> 01:18:46.720] Ie, rydych chi'n gwybod, mae eich syliad o rywun arall o chi ddim yn eich busnes chi,
[01:18:46.720 -> 01:18:49.840] oherwydd dydyn ni ddim yn gallu ei gynhyrchu, dyna'r penderfyniad eu hunain, ac
[01:18:49.840 -> 01:18:53.600] mae gennym y sgwrs yn dod ymlaen yn ystod dwy flynedd gyda Dr Rangan Chatterjee,
[01:18:53.600 -> 01:18:58.560] mae'n rhannu ffras oeddwn i'n clywed yn gyntaf ar ei podcast,
[01:18:58.560 -> 01:19:02.640] lle dweud, os oeddwn i chi, byddwn i wedi gwneud yr un penderfyniadau,
[01:19:02.640 -> 01:19:05.920] os oeddwn i wedi byw eich bywyd, byddwn wedi dod at yr un cyflawniadau.
[01:19:05.920 -> 01:19:09.600] Ac mae hynny'n dweud bod y penderfyniad o rywun eraill
[01:19:09.600 -> 01:19:12.240] yn seiliedig ar lawer o wahanol ffactorau yn eu bywyd
[01:19:12.240 -> 01:19:14.040] ac nad oes gennych ni gydag eich bod chi.
[01:19:14.040 -> 01:19:16.360] Felly rwy'n teimlo hynny'n eithaf hyfforddiol,
[01:19:16.360 -> 01:19:19.360] oherwydd fel y dweud, mae'n rhoi'ch gwrs i chi i'r syniad o
[01:19:19.360 -> 01:19:21.400] dim ond sefydlu ar eich hun a'r hyn rydych chi'n ei gael
[01:19:21.400 -> 01:19:22.640] ar y moment rydych chi'n ei chael.
[01:19:22.640 -> 01:19:23.600] Mae'n dda iawn.
[01:19:23.600 -> 01:19:25.000] Mae hefyd ychydig o ddarn o'r cymorth i ni, Damien. Dyma'r adroddiad o rywun sy'n dod i' ac y foment rydych chi'n ei chael. Mae yna hefyd ychydig o ddynion i ni, Damien.
[01:19:25.000 -> 01:19:29.000] Mae hwn yn gwybodaeth o rywun sydd wedi dod i'n rôl mewn edinbwr.
[01:19:29.000 -> 01:19:32.000] Mae'n dweud eu bod nhw wedi cofio'r cwmni a'i gyrraedd i gyd.
[01:19:32.000 -> 01:19:34.000] Mae wedi cael dechrau'n dda iawn i 2022,
[01:19:34.000 -> 01:19:36.000] yn ymgyrchu o'r gysylltiad sy'n eu gweld yn ddiweddar,
[01:19:36.000 -> 01:19:38.000] sydd wedi'i gwblhau.
[01:19:38.000 -> 01:19:40.000] Roeddent yn cael eu hymryd yn ystod y ddewis,
[01:19:40.000 -> 01:19:43.000] yn cefnogi eu bod yn cael eu ddod allan o'r gysylltiad eu hunain.
[01:19:43.000 -> 01:19:46.840] Roeddent yn dweud eu bod yn ddiogel eu bod wedi dod i'r rôl oherwydd roedd yn helpu. Roeddent wedi dweud bod yr adborth rydyn ni wedi'i gael out celebrating being released from self-isolation so they said they were glad they came along to the show because it really helped. They said all the
[01:19:46.840 -> 01:19:49.960] advice I've had over the last six weeks was brought together perfectly. I
[01:19:49.960 -> 01:19:53.400] understand now I must take responsibility for my part in the
[01:19:53.400 -> 01:19:57.760] breakup as no relationship is without faults. I now know I can create a better
[01:19:57.760 -> 01:20:01.400] more confident version of myself and feel truly inspired to be the best I can.
[01:20:01.400 -> 01:20:05.220] Life is 5% what happens to you in 95% how you deal with it
[01:20:05.220 -> 01:20:10.300] so thanks for all the great work you do says Rory and Lee he also came to the show and
[01:20:10.820 -> 01:20:14.160] his favorite moment was the fear of failure or the
[01:20:14.580 -> 01:20:19.240] Anticipation of success and that was a that was a quote from Steve Clark the Scotland manager
[01:20:19.240 -> 01:20:26.080] I'm still sort of reflecting on on Steve's searing honesty in a position where you're judged all the time I'm so grateful. He came on the show. I thought it was amazing Yn ystod y cyfnod lle rydych chi'n cael ymdrech ar y tro cyfnod, rwy'n mwynhau bod yn dod i'r show. Rwy'n meddwl oedd e'n anhygoel.
[01:20:26.080 -> 01:20:28.080] Roedd gen i ddim ymdrech arno.
[01:20:28.080 -> 01:20:30.000] Roeddem yn ddigon llwyr i siarad â ni
[01:20:30.000 -> 01:20:31.280] cyn i mi a'r show.
[01:20:31.280 -> 01:20:33.280] Rwy'n credu bod yr hyn rydyn ni'n ei weld
[01:20:33.280 -> 01:20:35.280] yn yr un stage rydyn ni'n ei weld.
[01:20:35.280 -> 01:20:36.480] Yn ystod y cyfnod,
[01:20:36.480 -> 01:20:39.280] roedd y dynion yn ymdrech ar ei hun.
[01:20:39.280 -> 01:20:40.480] Rwy'n hoffi'r syniad hwn,
[01:20:40.480 -> 01:20:42.080] mae'n dweud, dwi ddim yn y cyfnod cymdeithasol.
[01:20:42.080 -> 01:20:44.240] Dwi ddim yn gofyn am ddifrif o unrhyw un
[01:20:44.240 -> 01:20:46.840] na fy mhob teulu. A gwybod bod, pan dwi'n hoffi'r syniad hwnnw, mae'n dweud, dwi ddim yn y cymdeithasau cymdeithasol, dwi ddim yn gofyn cyfrifol o unrhyw un
[01:20:46.840 -> 01:20:48.720] yn unig gan fy nhref.
[01:20:48.720 -> 01:21:05.000] Ac yn gwybod bod, pan dwi'n rhoi fy nghyd yn y pyllo'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n fano'n f Dymu, diolch fel bob amser am hynny. Dymu, diolch am hynny. Diolch, Jake. Dymu, diolch am hynny. Diolch, Jake. Dymu, diolch am hynny. Diolch, Jake. Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:05.000 -> 01:21:05.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:05.500 -> 01:21:06.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:06.000 -> 01:21:06.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:06.500 -> 01:21:07.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:07.000 -> 01:21:07.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:07.500 -> 01:21:08.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:08.000 -> 01:21:08.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:08.500 -> 01:21:09.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:09.000 -> 01:21:09.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:09.500 -> 01:21:10.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:10.000 -> 01:21:10.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:10.500 -> 01:21:11.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:11.000 -> 01:21:11.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:11.500 -> 01:21:12.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:12.000 -> 01:21:12.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:12.500 -> 01:21:13.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:13.000 -> 01:21:13.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:13.500 -> 01:21:14.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:14.000 -> 01:21:14.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:14.500 -> 01:21:15.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:15.000 -> 01:21:15.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:15.500 -> 01:21:16.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:16.000 -> 01:21:16.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:16.500 -> 01:21:17.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:17.000 -> 01:21:17.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:17.500 -> 01:21:18.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:18.000 -> 01:21:18.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:18.500 -> 01:21:19.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:19.000 -> 01:21:19.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:19.500 -> 01:21:20.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:20.000 -> 01:21:20.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:20.500 -> 01:21:21.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:21.000 -> 01:21:21.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:21.500 -> 01:21:22.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:22.000 -> 01:21:22.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:22.500 -> 01:21:23.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:23.000 -> 01:21:23.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:23.500 -> 01:21:24.000] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:24.000 -> 01:21:24.500] Diolch, Jake.
[01:21:24.500 -> 01:21:28.000] Diolch, Jake. Diolch, Jake. Diolch, Jake. Diolch, Jake y 0-2, ac rwy'n mynd i ddweud wrth fy mhob, ond rwy'n credu, rwy'n rhaid i mi ddod o'r ffordd i ddweud ein bod ni'n y cwpwr o'r bwyd,
[01:21:28.000 -> 01:21:30.000] dim ond y...
[01:21:30.000 -> 01:21:33.000] Mae'n cwpwr o'r bwyd gyda 2,000 o bobl yn gwylio, ond, ie,
[01:21:33.000 -> 01:21:36.000] rwy'n hoffi ddweud bod ni wedi'u gael ar y 0-2.
[01:21:36.000 -> 01:21:39.000] Rhai o'r mam a'r ffamiliau o'r mam a'r dad oeddwn i a dweud,
[01:21:39.000 -> 01:21:43.000] ie, ie, mae'n gadael ar y 0-2, felly byddant yn ddisgwyl
[01:21:43.000 -> 01:21:45.760] pan fyddant yn dod ymlaen a'u bod nhw'n ymlaen i'r aren y bwyd gwaith, ac fe dweud, no, no, no, Sir, drwy'r ddifrif o'r O2, felly byddant yn ddifrifo'n ddiddorol pan fyddant yn dod allan ac yn mynd i'r arion gynllun.
[01:21:45.760 -> 01:21:47.760] Mae'n dweud, nid, nid, nid, gynnol y ddraw yma.
[01:21:48.960 -> 01:21:50.000] Diolch yn fawr iawn, ffrind.
[01:21:50.000 -> 01:21:50.960] Na, diolch, ffrind.
[01:21:50.960 -> 01:21:53.520] Mae'n bryd o ddiddorol, ond rwy'n edrych arno
[01:21:53.520 -> 01:21:54.240] i'r show hefyd.
[01:21:55.040 -> 01:21:56.640] Rwy'n credu bod wedi bod yn ddiddorol iawn
[01:21:56.640 -> 01:21:59.200] i gael gwrthwyneb i llawer o'r cwmni
[01:21:59.200 -> 01:22:01.120] a chroesawu'r gwestiynau eu hoff a'r hyn
[01:22:01.120 -> 01:22:02.240] y maent wedi'u cymryd o'i gilydd.
[01:22:02.240 -> 01:22:04.080] Felly gobeithio y bydd Lundain yn yr un.
[01:22:04.880 -> 01:22:06.000] Briliant. A diolch i chi i gyd am ymuno â ni a'r rhai sydd wedi'u cymryd allan. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Lundain yn yr un. Brifysgol.
[01:22:06.000 -> 01:22:08.000] Diolch i chi i gyd am ymuno â ni
[01:22:08.000 -> 01:22:10.000] ar gyfer y podcast a'r platfform
[01:22:10.000 -> 01:22:12.000] mwyaf poblogaidd a gweithwyr
[01:22:12.000 -> 01:22:14.000] yng nghyd-destun. Rydyn ni'n hoffi'r effaith
[01:22:14.000 -> 01:22:16.000] rydyn ni'n ei gael o'ch hollo.
[01:22:16.000 -> 01:22:18.000] Os oeddech chi'n mwynhau'r sgwrs rydyn ni'n ei gael,
[01:22:18.000 -> 01:22:20.000] nid dim ond gyda Anthony Taylor,
[01:22:20.000 -> 01:22:22.000] yn anhygoel i ddod allan a siarad
[01:22:22.000 -> 01:22:24.000] yn y ffordd yr oedd yn ei wneud,
[01:22:24.000 -> 01:22:25.520] ond hefyd y sgwrs gyda Jack ar y diwedd. Os ydych chi'n clywed y rhai hynny ac y byddwch chi eisiau rhannu eich syniadau to come on and talk in the way he did, but also the chat with Jack at the end there. If you're listening to those
[01:22:25.520 -> 01:22:27.340] and you want to share your thoughts on the podcast,
[01:22:27.340 -> 01:22:29.680] on the episode, on the listener who's just been with us,
[01:22:29.680 -> 01:22:31.760] on the thoughts that Damien and I have had,
[01:22:31.760 -> 01:22:32.600] please reach out.
[01:22:32.600 -> 01:22:34.240] You can find Damien at LiquidThinker.
[01:22:34.240 -> 01:22:35.580] I'm at jakehumphrey.
[01:22:35.580 -> 01:22:38.720] The podcast is at High Performance all on Instagram,
[01:22:38.720 -> 01:22:41.280] and you can also watch as well as listen to the interviews.
[01:22:41.280 -> 01:22:44.440] Just head to YouTube, type in High Performance Podcast,
[01:22:44.440 -> 01:22:47.560] subscribe, and you'll get the episodes there as well.
[01:22:47.560 -> 01:22:49.320] Remember, there is no secret.
[01:22:49.320 -> 01:22:50.640] It is all there for you.
[01:22:50.640 -> 01:22:52.400] Be your own biggest cheerleader.
[01:22:52.400 -> 01:22:56.080] Make world-class basics your calling card.
[01:22:56.080 -> 01:22:59.120] Thanks very much to Eve, to Hannah, to Will,
[01:22:59.120 -> 01:23:01.320] to Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio, to Gemma,
[01:23:01.320 -> 01:23:04.040] to everyone who's involved in making the podcast work,
[01:23:04.040 -> 01:23:05.720] and we'll see you next time.
[01:23:05.720 -> 01:23:06.560] Bye-bye.
[01:23:06.560 -> None] ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, you