Podcast: The High Performance
Published Date:
Mon, 31 Jan 2022 01:00:12 GMT
Duration:
1:22:01
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Karl Lokko is an activist, public speaker, influencer and businessman. Son of previous illegal immigrants, Karl became a gang leader at 14 years old. His gang (Mayhem and Destruction) had over 60 members at its height. But, aftering finding spirituality in his late teens he has turned his life around. Now, he works to reform gang culture and empower black youth with his companies Black Seed and BRXTN Studio. Karl has always worked as the personal advisor for Prince Harry.
In the latest episode of the High Performance Podcast Karl shares with us his experience in gang culture, the struggle of being a young, successful black man in Britain and his relationship with regret.
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Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode:
**Podcast Episode Summary**
**Title:** Overcoming Gang Culture and Regret with Karl Lokko
**Guest:** Karl Lokko, activist, public speaker, influencer, and businessman
**Key Points:**
* **Background:**
* Karl Lokko was a gang leader in London, known for his fearlessness.
* He grew up in a loving family, but felt excluded from mainstream society.
* He found a sense of belonging and power in the gang.
* **Gang Life:**
* Karl's gang, Mayhem and Destruction, had over 60 members at its height.
* They engaged in violence, drug dealing, and other criminal activities.
* Karl wore a bulletproof vest and carried a gun for protection.
* **Turning Point:**
* Karl realized that the gang lifestyle was not what he wanted.
* He found spirituality and began to change his life.
* He left the gang and started working to help other young people avoid gang culture.
* **Current Work:**
* Karl is now an inspirational speaker and businessman.
* He founded the companies Black Seed and BRXTN Studio to empower black youth.
* He is also a personal advisor to Prince Harry.
* **Lessons Learned:**
* Fear can be a powerful motivator, but it can also be limiting.
* Love and belonging are essential for human well-being.
* Exclusion can lead people to adopt harmful behaviors.
* It is possible to change one's life, no matter how difficult the circumstances.
**Memorable Quotes:**
* "I got my notoriety from being considered fearless." - Karl Lokko
* "The best defense is offense." - Karl Lokko
* "Dapi know who to frighten." - Jamaican saying, meaning "Ghosts know who to haunt."
* "I had to molest myself. I had to massage this facade into place." - Karl Lokko, describing his struggle to maintain a gang persona.
**Overall Message:**
Karl Lokko's story is a powerful reminder that it is possible to overcome adversity and change one's life for the better. He shows that even those who have been involved in gang culture can find redemption and purpose. His work to help other young people avoid gang violence is truly inspiring.
**Navigating Gang Culture and the Power of Empathy: A Journey of Transformation with Karl Lokko**
In this episode of the High-Performance Podcast, Karl Lokko, an activist, public speaker, influencer, and businessman, shares his remarkable journey of transformation from a gang leader to a successful entrepreneur and advocate for social change. Raised by immigrant parents, Karl found himself at the helm of a gang with over 60 members at its peak. However, a spiritual awakening in his late teens led him to turn his life around and dedicate himself to reforming gang culture and empowering black youth through his companies Black Seed and BRXTN Studio.
**Key Insights:**
- **The Humanizing Power of Empathy:** Karl emphasizes the significance of empathy in understanding and connecting with individuals from different backgrounds. He highlights the tendency to dehumanize those perceived as "other," leading to division and conflict. By fostering empathy and recognizing the shared humanity of all people, we can bridge gaps and create a more inclusive society.
- **The Importance of Identity and Vision:** Karl's transformation was fueled by a shift in his identity and vision for his life. He moved away from the identity of a gang member and embraced a new vision of himself as a positive force for change. This transformation was driven by his desire to break free from the cycle of violence and create a better future for himself and his community.
- **The Role of Mentorship and Support:** Pastor Mimi, a local pastor, played a pivotal role in Karl's journey. Her unwavering belief in Karl's potential and her ability to see beyond his gang affiliation were instrumental in his transformation. She challenged his identity as a gang member and helped him recognize his true worth and capabilities.
- **The Power of Collective Action:** Karl advocates for a collective effort towards inclusion as a means to address gang culture and other social issues. He emphasizes the need to move away from exclusionary practices and create opportunities for all individuals, regardless of their background or circumstances. By working together, we can create a society where everyone feels valued and has the chance to reach their full potential.
- **The Importance of Empathy and Action:** Karl stresses the significance of empathy and action in creating positive change. He encourages individuals to move beyond opinions and engage with others with empathy, understanding their perspectives and experiences. This, coupled with meaningful action, can lead to lasting and impactful change.
**Conclusion:**
Karl Lokko's journey is a testament to the transformative power of empathy, identity, vision, mentorship, and collective action. His story serves as an inspiration to those seeking to overcome adversity and create positive change in their own lives and communities. By embracing empathy and working towards a more inclusive society, we can break down barriers, foster understanding, and empower individuals to reach their full potential.
## Podcast Episode Transcript: Karl Lokko - Activist, Public Speaker, Influencer, Businessman ##
**Summary**
Karl Lokko is an activist, public speaker, influencer, and businessman. He is a former gang leader who turned his life around through spirituality. Now, he works to reform gang culture and empower black youth with his companies Black Seed and BRXTN Studio. Karl has always worked as the personal advisor for Prince Harry.
In the latest episode of the High Performance Podcast, Karl shares his experience in gang culture, the struggle of being a young, successful black man in Britain, and his relationship with regret.
**Key Points**
* Karl's upbringing as the son of illegal immigrants and his journey from gang leader to successful businessman.
* The challenges faced by young, successful black men in Britain, including discrimination and a lack of opportunity.
* The importance of spirituality and self-forgiveness in Karl's journey.
* Karl's vision for Brixton to become a black entrepreneurial hub, similar to Silicon Valley.
* The need for intersectionality and collaboration to create a harmonious society.
* The importance of legacy and productivity in Karl's life.
* Karl's advice to live your own high-performance life: figure out how to achieve your five-year goals in six months.
**Memorable Quotes**
* "I believe life is about making life better for you, and when I said you, I meant it as a collective." - Karl Lokko
* "I have regret, but I also have an awareness that nothing happens to me, but for me." - Karl Lokko
* "I say every day when we go into like, I've kind of toned it down because I've broken record, but I say everyone must conduct themselves as old, rich white men." - Karl Lokko
* "All the advice I would say is figure out how to do it in six months." - Karl Lokko
**Overall Message**
Karl Lokko's story is one of transformation and resilience. He has overcome significant challenges to achieve success in both his personal and professional life. Karl's message is one of hope and empowerment, and he inspires others to believe that they can also overcome adversity and achieve their goals.
**Insights**
* The importance of spirituality and self-forgiveness in overcoming adversity.
* The need for intersectionality and collaboration to create a more just and equitable society.
* The power of a clear vision and a strong work ethic in achieving success.
* The importance of mentorship and support in personal and professional development.
**Controversies**
* Karl Lokko's comments about the need for black entrepreneurs to "conduct themselves as old, rich white men" were met with some criticism. Some people felt that this advice was problematic and perpetuated harmful stereotypes.
* Karl Lokko's association with Prince Harry has also been the subject of some controversy. Some people have questioned whether Karl is using his relationship with the prince to promote his own agenda.
**Overall, this was a powerful and inspiring episode of the High Performance Podcast. Karl Lokko is a remarkable individual who has overcome significant challenges to achieve success. His story is a testament to the power of the human spirit and the importance of never giving up on your dreams.**
# High Performance Podcast Summary
**Guest:** Karl Lokko (activist, public speaker, influencer, businessman)
**Main Themes:**
* Karl Lokko's experience in gang culture
* The struggle of being a young, successful black man in Britain
* His relationship with regret
**Key Points:**
* Karl Lokko was a gang leader at 14 years old. His gang (Mayhem and Destruction) had over 60 members at its height.
* After finding spirituality in his late teens, he turned his life around.
* He now works to reform gang culture and empower black youth with his companies Black Seed and BRXTN Studio.
* Karl has always worked as the personal advisor for Prince Harry.
* Karl believes that teachers and other young people can benefit from listening to the High Performance Podcast.
* He says that the podcast's messages are about constantly adding little things to your toolbox and implementing good practices.
* Karl believes that one of the most important things for young people is to have good habits and routines.
* He also emphasizes the importance of role modeling good behavior.
* Karl is an advocate for the High Performance Podcast and shares its messages with his students and colleagues.
**Controversies or Insights:**
* Karl Lokko's experience in gang culture is a unique perspective that is not often heard in the mainstream media.
* His insights into the challenges of being a young, successful black man in Britain are also valuable and thought-provoking.
* Karl's relationship with regret is a powerful reminder that it is never too late to turn your life around.
**Overall Message:**
Karl Lokko's story is one of hope and redemption. He shows that it is possible to overcome even the most difficult circumstances and achieve great things. His message is one that everyone can benefit from hearing.
[00:00.000 -> 00:06.560] Hi there, welcome to the 101st episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[00:06.560 -> 00:11.020] Thank you very much for all the lovely messages congratulating us on hitting a century of
[00:11.020 -> 00:13.120] episodes last week with Bear Grylls.
[00:13.120 -> 00:15.120] If you haven't heard it yet, it's well worth listening to.
[00:15.120 -> 00:19.320] And we've had some lovely feedback from lots of people, including a message that we got
[00:19.320 -> 00:20.320] on Instagram.
[00:20.320 -> 00:21.320] We got a lot of these actually.
[00:21.320 -> 00:27.100] This one's from Alice and she says, I had no idea till I listened to that podcast episode
[00:27.100 -> 00:29.840] that dib, dib, dib was the scout motto
[00:29.840 -> 00:33.820] and stands for do your best, do your best, do your best.
[00:33.820 -> 00:35.040] Dib, dib, dib.
[00:35.040 -> 00:36.520] This is something I will tell my children
[00:36.520 -> 00:38.200] because no matter what results they get,
[00:38.200 -> 00:41.200] if they've done their best, that is enough.
[00:41.200 -> 00:44.400] And on that note, welcome to another episode
[00:44.400 -> 00:48.680] of the High Performance Podcast. I gift to you for free every single week
[00:48.680 -> 00:54.200] It's the podcast that turns the lived experiences of the planet's highest performers into your life lessons
[00:54.200 -> 01:00.680] So today allow the greatest leaders thinkers sports stars entertainers and entrepreneurs to be your teacher
[01:01.280 -> 01:03.400] This is what's in store today
[01:04.480 -> 01:10.280] And it was almost like a muscle. Eventually I got to a point where I got a lot of my kind
[01:10.280 -> 01:18.680] of notoriety for being fearless. I wasn't about like the amount of violence I perpetrated
[01:18.680 -> 01:26.160] or about the amount of money I made. That's not why I got my notoriety. I got my notoriety from being considered fearless.
[01:28.600 -> 01:30.560] They told me to stop, I never stopped.
[01:30.560 -> 01:33.640] You know, my mother who kind of carried me nine months,
[01:33.640 -> 01:35.000] gave birth to me, clothed me,
[01:35.000 -> 01:37.180] she begged me to stop, I never stopped.
[01:37.180 -> 01:39.280] You know, but for this, this is for me,
[01:39.280 -> 01:41.720] I just don't believe in it no more.
[01:41.720 -> 01:46.400] Each day I left the house, I'd put put on a mask and then when I come home
[01:46.400 -> 01:54.240] the mask is redundant so I took it off. Exclusion is what will cause a person to
[01:54.240 -> 01:59.600] subscribe to a way of being that is technically not with the direction of
[01:59.600 -> 02:06.680] the mainstream or even seen as something that is pleasant, you know, because they genuinely feel as if
[02:06.680 -> 02:12.040] they have been excluded from the option that is available to everyone else, you know, so
[02:12.040 -> 02:19.160] for me, it's around an inclusion that needs to happen across the board.
[02:19.160 -> 02:26.720] This episode is a really interesting one. It's a story about someone's life as much as someone's lessons. So carl loco was
[02:27.520 -> 02:28.720] one of the
[02:28.720 -> 02:32.640] most feared and in his world respected gallant leaders
[02:33.120 -> 02:36.640] in the whole of london and the stories that he will share with you will
[02:37.200 -> 02:39.200] shock you and
[02:39.760 -> 02:46.320] I suppose in a strange way inspire you in equal measure. You will be shocked about how a guy from a loving family whose
[02:47.000 -> 02:49.640] Parents went to church and who loved their children
[02:50.200 -> 02:53.520] Ended up getting sucked not just into ganglang violence
[02:53.800 -> 02:58.160] But leading a gang leading a big gang being the main guy
[02:58.640 -> 03:04.680] Sleeping in a bulletproof vest carrying a gun to go to the chicken shop being shot at being stabbed
[03:06.200 -> 03:09.560] You'll be shocked that all that happened, but then you will also be inspired by the fact
[03:09.560 -> 03:12.440] that he's turned his life around, that he's become an inspirational speaker,
[03:12.440 -> 03:16.000] that he was helped to end his relationship with gang violence by
[03:16.000 -> 03:20.520] someone and he then passed that on and did what he could to stop other young
[03:20.520 -> 03:25.240] men from either joining gangs or being in gangs. It is, I mean I
[03:25.240 -> 03:29.400] really enjoyed the conversation with Carl. He's a really bright, really smart,
[03:29.400 -> 03:34.520] really deep thinker and he's someone I'd love to get to know further so I'm going
[03:34.520 -> 03:38.480] to definitely reach out and try and get to know Carl because, I don't know, he
[03:38.480 -> 03:42.120] had a cool energy about him and I thought it was a really really
[03:42.120 -> 03:45.600] interesting conversation so I think you will enjoy it as well.
[03:45.920 -> 03:47.120] Anyway, just a quick reminder.
[03:47.160 -> 03:51.280] If you can, I would love you to hit subscribe on today's podcast.
[03:51.280 -> 03:56.080] I would love you to leave a review or rate us and don't forget as well as listening to every episode.
[03:56.440 -> 03:58.680] You can watch them all on our YouTube channel as well.
[03:58.680 -> 04:00.840] Just check out High Performance on YouTube.
[04:01.200 -> 04:05.720] But for now, it's time to welcome you to a brand new episode of High Performance.
[04:05.720 -> 04:06.720] It comes next.
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[06:16.720 -> 06:24.960] details so I want to start this
[06:22.560 -> 06:26.720] conversation with a quote from the
[06:24.960 -> 06:26.160] former American politician
[06:26.160 -> 06:31.480] Bill Bullard. And the quote is, opinion is the lowest form of knowledge, for it requires
[06:31.480 -> 06:36.800] no accountability or understanding. The highest form of knowledge is empathy, because it requires
[06:36.800 -> 06:41.600] us to walk in another's shoes. And today, we're joined on high performance by a former
[06:41.600 -> 06:48.800] gang leader for whom criminal activity was the daily norm. Shot at, arrested in his classroom, armed just to walk to the
[06:48.800 -> 06:54.360] shops. But as we say so often on this podcast, please suspend your opinion of
[06:54.360 -> 06:57.800] someone who lived a life like that because that wasn't who he was at his
[06:57.800 -> 07:02.640] heart, it was simply where he found himself, it was what he did. And it
[07:02.640 -> 07:05.680] wasn't who he was because today he's totally transformed.
[07:05.680 -> 07:07.480] He's an activist, he's an influencer,
[07:07.480 -> 07:10.040] he's a public speaker, he's a businessman,
[07:10.040 -> 07:13.260] and he's still looking to change young lives
[07:13.260 -> 07:16.440] on the streets where he was once in the gangs.
[07:16.440 -> 07:20.080] So please welcome to High Performance, Carl Loco.
[07:20.080 -> 07:22.140] It's a pleasure to have you with us,
[07:22.140 -> 07:23.580] and I really hope that this is.
[07:23.580 -> 07:24.860] It's cool, isn't it?
[07:24.860 -> 07:27.240] Because I do want this conversation to change people's minds
[07:27.240 -> 07:29.860] about what and who gang members are.
[07:30.720 -> 07:32.680] Based on what you know now,
[07:32.680 -> 07:35.800] what do you consider to be high performance?
[07:35.800 -> 07:37.680] High performance.
[07:38.560 -> 07:40.620] I think firstly to start it's relative.
[07:41.520 -> 07:47.980] I think it's down to wherever someone is at and basically pushing that a few
[07:47.980 -> 07:53.080] dows beyond their quote-unquote norm, you know, so I mean if they're a two at that
[07:53.080 -> 07:57.480] thing getting it to a five I reckon for them that is high performance but if
[07:57.480 -> 08:01.280] you're naturally a five at it you need to get it to seven for it to kind of
[08:01.280 -> 08:05.440] define itself as high so yeah I think it's all relative essentially.
[08:05.440 -> 08:10.200] Let's go right back then to the days when you were not just in a gang on the streets
[08:10.200 -> 08:14.720] around where you lived, but you were the gang leader. At the very height and the depth of
[08:14.720 -> 08:19.480] your involvement with gangs, what then did you consider to be high performance?
[08:19.480 -> 08:24.520] Exact same definition. Yeah. I was performing.
[08:24.520 -> 08:29.000] And you saw being in a gang as a form of performance of wanting to be the elite, the best?
[08:29.000 -> 08:45.900] Absolutely. Coming from a community where those are able to drive German cars and wear Italian clothes and go to tropical destinations are those that are doing it illegitimately. I mean it did kind of put across the message that if you wanted to you know
[08:45.900 -> 08:50.600] enjoy the finer things or embitter yourself that that was the vehicle to do
[08:50.600 -> 08:54.640] so you know and like anything you can either do it poorly or you can do it
[08:54.640 -> 08:59.040] well you know so the aim was obviously always to do it well. To do what well?
[08:59.040 -> 09:04.360] I mean whatever like the day entailed you know kind of like whether that be
[09:04.360 -> 09:05.000] huddling and kind of like whether that be huddling
[09:05.000 -> 09:06.760] and kind of like holding together my,
[09:06.760 -> 09:09.080] I'm holding down my peers,
[09:09.080 -> 09:13.080] whether that be what we do to earn,
[09:13.080 -> 09:16.480] in terms of like, you can get creative,
[09:16.480 -> 09:19.240] the rest of it, I mean, just doing it all well.
[09:19.240 -> 09:21.480] And obviously it's an environment
[09:21.480 -> 09:25.960] where it's quite fast paced, you know, a lot can change
[09:25.960 -> 09:28.520] and a lot becomes redundant very quickly.
[09:28.520 -> 09:30.320] You think the fashion world has got to turn around,
[09:30.320 -> 09:32.360] there's nothing like the streets, you know, so.
[09:32.360 -> 09:34.200] Give us an example of that.
[09:34.200 -> 09:37.120] I mean, you could be feared, like,
[09:37.120 -> 09:40.680] first quarter of, like, I don't know, 2021,
[09:40.680 -> 09:43.800] and then, like, it has, like, a COVID impact
[09:43.800 -> 09:45.840] and everything has turned around and you
[09:45.840 -> 09:50.280] are now like being victimized you know at the end of the year you know just
[09:50.280 -> 09:57.080] because you took what you call maybe a few L's. I mean maybe being
[09:57.080 -> 10:02.320] ridiculed in a certain way, humiliated, you know shown to you know exhibit a
[10:02.320 -> 10:05.600] certain level of weakness you know so yeah., you know, exhibit a certain level of weakness, you know, so yeah.
[10:05.600 -> 10:07.000] But you've described yourself, Cal,
[10:07.000 -> 10:08.920] that you were wearing a bulletproof vest.
[10:08.920 -> 10:09.760] Yeah.
[10:09.760 -> 10:10.580] As a norm.
[10:10.580 -> 10:12.120] So where were you earning it?
[10:12.120 -> 10:14.960] In what kind of fields did you buy it?
[10:14.960 -> 10:15.800] With that vest.
[10:15.800 -> 10:16.920] To wear that vest.
[10:16.920 -> 10:18.080] Where were you making your money?
[10:18.080 -> 10:18.920] In what drugs?
[10:18.920 -> 10:20.520] I mean, do you know what?
[10:20.520 -> 10:22.400] In regards to actually wearing the vest
[10:22.400 -> 10:24.120] and where I would wear it,
[10:24.120 -> 10:26.260] I mean, I actually wanted to wear it at home
[10:26.260 -> 10:29.120] as well as outside the home. There was one instance
[10:29.720 -> 10:35.680] where a young man in Peckham was actually shot while I was sleeping in his bed with a
[10:36.440 -> 10:43.780] semi-automatic gun. So I mean these stories are, you know, it transmutes the trauma, you know,
[10:43.780 -> 10:45.440] because that's just literally what a 10-minute bus journey up the road, you know, it transmutes the trauma, you know, because that's just literally what a
[10:45.440 -> 10:50.520] 10 minute bus journey up the road, you know. So I mean, from my home to my estate to where
[10:50.520 -> 10:55.240] I went around anywhere I could, anywhere I was, I wanted the vest. And if you, I mean,
[10:55.240 -> 10:56.760] your second question was around.
[10:56.760 -> 11:01.200] Sodiq Ganiyu Was what were you trading in? Was it guns? Was it drugs? Was it like what
[11:01.200 -> 11:02.200] sort of criminal activity?
[11:02.200 -> 11:05.840] I mean, definitely both like drugs, guns, for sure.
[11:05.840 -> 11:07.800] I really want to give people an idea
[11:07.800 -> 11:08.840] of how this all happened,
[11:08.840 -> 11:09.920] because I've heard you say
[11:09.920 -> 11:12.160] that you were a hardworking kid at school.
[11:12.160 -> 11:13.560] You came from a loving family.
[11:13.560 -> 11:16.480] Your parents were immigrants who came to the UK
[11:16.480 -> 11:17.960] to find a better life for you
[11:17.960 -> 11:19.600] and your brother and your family.
[11:19.600 -> 11:22.920] How do you go from there to being not just in a gang,
[11:22.920 -> 11:31.560] but to being the main guy? I mean there's a few answers I can provide but I mean ambition is one of the main answers
[11:31.560 -> 11:32.560] actually.
[11:32.560 -> 11:33.560] Really?
[11:33.560 -> 11:35.760] Oh yeah absolutely ambition.
[11:35.760 -> 11:41.720] So initially like when I was about nine years old I wanted to be an astronaut, ten, a veterinary
[11:41.720 -> 11:47.720] surgeon, eleven, I wanted to be a forensic pathologist because my father was heavy into murder detective shows.
[11:47.720 -> 11:50.360] And then literally, I always say about 12 and a half,
[11:50.360 -> 11:52.560] I wanted to be the most notorious
[11:52.560 -> 11:54.520] kind of street level gang member.
[11:54.520 -> 11:59.520] And that sort of dark evolution
[11:59.600 -> 12:04.600] is really spurred by what's happening around you.
[12:04.920 -> 12:05.640] Like just the rate of which is quite exponential if you think about a forensic pathologist really spurred by what's happening
[12:03.180 -> 12:07.320] around you, like just the rate of
[12:05.640 -> 12:09.120] which is quite exponential if you
[12:07.320 -> 12:11.800] think about a forensic pathologist to a
[12:09.120 -> 12:14.480] you know, so that that shows it's like an
[12:11.800 -> 12:16.600] external sort of contamination you know
[12:14.480 -> 12:18.000] is what I was being exposed to. I actually
[12:16.600 -> 12:21.120] witnessed someone being shot at very
[12:18.000 -> 12:22.840] close range and the trauma of that was
[12:21.120 -> 12:26.880] both traumatic and romantic at the same
[12:22.840 -> 12:28.680] time you know so at that time there, a young man in my area,
[12:28.680 -> 12:32.080] his father was actually murdered over a PlayStation game.
[12:32.080 -> 12:34.400] And this young man was a friend of mine
[12:34.400 -> 12:37.840] and the young men had that were doing certain things
[12:37.840 -> 12:40.480] in that area had also attempted to steal games
[12:40.480 -> 12:42.160] from my house at one point.
[12:42.160 -> 12:43.880] So my mind kept on thinking, you know what?
[12:43.880 -> 12:49.000] That could have been my father, might be my be my father next you know my mother's car was
[12:49.000 -> 12:53.200] being broken into continually you know my brother I would have to kind of gauge
[12:53.200 -> 12:57.920] by how he knocked on the door whether he was being pursued you know sometimes you
[12:57.920 -> 13:01.160] want to knock on the door but not too hard that you knock the door and then
[13:01.160 -> 13:04.520] make them be annoyed that you were knocking the door so hard because even
[13:04.520 -> 13:06.800] they knew their intentions and you knew you're gonna
[13:06.800 -> 13:09.200] face them tomorrow if that makes any sense.
[13:09.200 -> 13:15.280] And it does and I get the trauma bit but where's the romantic bit of that?
[13:15.280 -> 13:20.800] The romantic bit comes from when you're living in an environment where it's
[13:20.800 -> 13:26.080] kind of plagued with powerlessness, you know, not having enough, not being able to do enough.
[13:27.200 -> 13:30.920] Also, being the son of previously
[13:30.920 -> 13:33.040] what was illegal immigrants,
[13:33.040 -> 13:36.400] not being able to tread the ground in a certain way,
[13:36.400 -> 13:38.720] always trying to be seen and not heard.
[13:38.720 -> 13:40.960] And just feeling, I mean,
[13:40.960 -> 13:43.280] powerlessness is the best way to describe it.
[13:43.280 -> 13:45.800] When you see someone act in certain ways,
[13:46.000 -> 13:49.800] even though it may on the surface is brutal,
[13:50.200 -> 13:53.800] it actually can be interpreted as powerful.
[13:54.200 -> 13:57.600] So you can start to feel like maybe you're reclaiming some level of power.
[13:57.800 -> 14:02.000] Now, you know, maybe I do have autonomy over my own situation.
[14:02.200 -> 14:06.160] Maybe I'm not just, you know, caught in the winds of peril, you know,
[14:07.200 -> 14:13.760] and lack. So is it about power for you? I know you got arrested in your front of your classmates.
[14:13.760 -> 14:18.480] I'm sure in a strange way that gave you even more of a sense of power, right?
[14:18.480 -> 14:22.480] Like, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It was definitely about power for me,
[14:22.480 -> 14:25.800] but in a way that I constantly felt powerless,
[14:25.800 -> 14:30.520] I just didn't feel like I could use my own agency
[14:30.520 -> 14:32.800] to change our situation.
[14:32.800 -> 14:35.720] And the only way that I was able to do so
[14:35.720 -> 14:39.400] was by using the vehicle of gangsterism,
[14:39.400 -> 14:43.560] because on a short term level, it worked.
[14:43.560 -> 14:45.240] It was very effective.
[14:45.240 -> 14:47.520] My mother's car went from being broken into
[14:47.520 -> 14:50.300] to young men helping over shopping up the stairs.
[14:50.300 -> 14:53.200] You know, my brother went from having to bang the door
[14:53.200 -> 14:55.240] in a certain way for me to open it quickly
[14:55.240 -> 14:58.480] to being able to tell other young men to leave people alone
[14:58.480 -> 15:00.360] because they know that he's my brother.
[15:00.360 -> 15:02.440] You know, he has that jurisdiction now.
[15:02.440 -> 15:04.780] You know, I no longer had that anxiety
[15:04.780 -> 15:06.320] that my father might be next, you know, he has that jurisdiction now, you know, I no longer had that anxiety that my father might be next,
[15:06.360 -> 15:12.280] you know, and that in itself kind of helped with a level of peace, you know, even though it's a whack trade-off,
[15:12.280 -> 15:19.800] but still for a period, you know, it seemed to help, you know, so definitely I felt like it was an antidote to most things.
[15:19.960 -> 15:25.300] What did your parents make of this? Because they must have seen that there was a very different treatment and
[15:25.680 -> 15:31.560] Wondered where like why that was happening. Were they aware of what you were doing? Yes, and no
[15:32.400 -> 15:38.880] Initially, I'll say a lot more. No than yes, I was still like my parents perceived that like yourself actually
[15:39.600 -> 15:41.600] They had quite a skewed
[15:41.640 -> 15:46.120] Understanding of what it meant to be a gang member or involved in gangsterism.
[15:46.120 -> 15:47.360] So they kind of fought on.
[15:47.360 -> 15:51.920] We're brilliant present parents, you know, we're loving.
[15:51.920 -> 15:55.000] Our child is in the top set for every class.
[15:55.000 -> 15:58.200] You know, he's year nine SATs and year six.
[15:58.200 -> 16:00.560] He's been diagnosed a child genius.
[16:00.560 -> 16:02.760] We're definitely on the right track, you know?
[16:02.760 -> 16:06.760] Like he's still very courteous, still very polite,
[16:06.760 -> 16:08.600] got lots of manners, you know?
[16:08.600 -> 16:11.140] Like when he comes home, he doesn't engage with us
[16:11.140 -> 16:15.160] as a gang member, still engages with us as our son.
[16:15.160 -> 16:18.260] So I didn't think I had subscribed to anything else,
[16:18.260 -> 16:20.920] but I mean, those little telltale signs here and there,
[16:20.920 -> 16:24.040] but I was able to kind of like speak my way out of that
[16:24.040 -> 16:29.540] to a period and to a point. And then eventually then eventually I mean even I had to let them know that this is
[16:29.540 -> 16:33.200] what it is for all our safety. But what you're describing there Carl is like many
[16:33.200 -> 16:37.180] parents that will be listening to this almost like their worst nightmare that
[16:37.180 -> 16:39.980] you think you're doing a good job and you think you're raising your children
[16:39.980 -> 16:46.180] to be polite and respectful and work hard at school. And yet, when they leave the house,
[16:46.180 -> 16:48.420] you've got no idea what they're doing.
[16:48.420 -> 16:51.660] What message would you offer to any parent?
[16:51.660 -> 16:54.620] Like, what should we be looking for with our children
[16:54.620 -> 16:58.580] that maybe would have given away some of the signs?
[16:58.580 -> 16:59.420] Do you know what?
[16:59.420 -> 17:00.340] I don't think it's,
[17:01.580 -> 17:04.860] I don't think it can be purely on observation.
[17:04.860 -> 17:07.320] I think this is more around conversation
[17:07.320 -> 17:09.040] and not interrogation like that,
[17:09.040 -> 17:11.640] but like genuine conversation, you know?
[17:11.640 -> 17:15.960] And if a child feels like they are able to share
[17:15.960 -> 17:18.280] even the bits that might make them feel shame
[17:18.280 -> 17:19.880] or they might feel like, you know,
[17:19.880 -> 17:21.760] mommy or daddy might not be too happy,
[17:21.760 -> 17:25.560] but still they have opportunity and the space to
[17:25.560 -> 17:29.800] share and it's safe and they feel safe, you know, because it's different to feel safe
[17:29.800 -> 17:34.440] in terms of, you know, those are your guardians, but to feel safe to bring them, you know,
[17:34.440 -> 17:39.720] certain conundrums and certain things that's going on that takes a next kind of work, which
[17:39.720 -> 17:41.760] I believe needs to be intentional.
[17:41.760 -> 17:46.400] So I feel like that's the only way, but in terms of observation, the game will be how good are you at looking
[17:46.400 -> 17:47.680] and how good are they at hiding.
[17:47.680 -> 17:49.520] So, it's better to have done with that.
[17:49.520 -> 17:50.680] To use a daft analogy,
[17:50.680 -> 17:51.640] you were like Spider-Man,
[17:51.640 -> 17:52.920] you leave the house, the mask goes on,
[17:52.920 -> 17:54.160] you're one person, you come home,
[17:54.160 -> 17:55.560] you whip it off, you're someone totally different.
[17:55.560 -> 17:58.040] Not a daft analogy, that's exactly it.
[17:58.040 -> 18:00.080] Absolutely, in my TED talk, I actually use that.
[18:00.080 -> 18:02.960] I literally say each day I left the house,
[18:02.960 -> 18:04.680] I'd put on a mask,
[18:04.680 -> 18:05.340] and then when I
[18:05.340 -> 18:08.660] come home the mask is redundant so I took it off. Was it exhausting?
[18:08.660 -> 18:13.940] Absolutely but I mean you don't really get to it's only now when you look back
[18:13.940 -> 18:19.560] I realize how exhausting it was you know because um that's all you know you know
[18:19.560 -> 18:23.880] that I didn't know any different you know so I acclimatized to an extent but
[18:23.880 -> 18:25.520] it's definitely very heavy.
[18:25.520 -> 18:29.360] What I find really interesting is that you weren't just a gang member, right, you were
[18:29.360 -> 18:35.840] a gang leader, and you talk about, you know, being diagnosed as a, or being considered
[18:35.840 -> 18:39.840] a child genius, sitting your exams earlier than everybody else, your mum and dad holding
[18:39.840 -> 18:46.400] you up as like, this amazing son of ours who's going to change the fortunes of this family.
[18:46.400 -> 18:50.640] Have you considered that perhaps the things that helped you in the classroom to excel
[18:50.640 -> 18:54.920] were the very same things that helped you excel in the gang culture? Like you had the
[18:54.920 -> 19:01.000] drive and the ambition, as long as that word feels like using, the ambition to be the leader
[19:01.000 -> 19:02.000] in the gang.
[19:02.000 -> 19:05.040] Yeah, absolutely. Like more skills, it's transferable. You know, so- What did you do then to become the leader in the gang? Yeah, absolutely. Like most skills, it's transferable.
[19:05.520 -> 19:07.600] You know, so... What did you do then to become the leader?
[19:07.600 -> 19:09.040] I mean, it's going to sound a bit...
[19:10.000 -> 19:10.880] I showed love.
[19:12.640 -> 19:13.600] Sounds like...
[19:14.320 -> 19:16.880] I mean, it may not be the sexiest thing,
[19:16.880 -> 19:18.000] but it's the truth.
[19:18.000 -> 19:18.720] I was...
[19:18.720 -> 19:19.520] I showed love.
[19:19.520 -> 19:21.280] I showed love to those
[19:21.280 -> 19:23.440] who were in a similar limbo to myself.
[19:24.000 -> 19:25.200] You know, we were neither here
[19:25.200 -> 19:30.520] nor there but we kind of had enough and didn't want to live like in fear every day so we
[19:30.520 -> 19:36.240] banded together, you know, and we were a little bit less scared together. Then I kind of began
[19:36.240 -> 19:41.160] to whisper to them the prospect of maybe we don't have to just be even a little bit less
[19:41.160 -> 19:48.000] scared, maybe we don't have to be scared full stop, maybe they can be scared of us, you know, and then literally that's how it
[19:48.000 -> 19:52.200] started to move because the best defense is offense, you know, so...
[19:52.200 -> 19:55.760] So how did you manage fear then? So when somebody's pulling a gun on you or you're
[19:55.760 -> 20:01.560] hearing about somebody being shot for a PlayStation game, how did you process
[20:01.560 -> 20:07.400] and then manage that fear? Yeah, I mean I leaned into it like I was
[20:07.920 -> 20:10.780] Fair like I was very frightened
[20:11.160 -> 20:18.160] Like I had even night terrors like at night to sleep on my own with the lights off. I am petrified
[20:18.160 -> 20:21.080] I mean, I will take the long way home
[20:21.760 -> 20:25.560] Wait for like I didn't want to ride the bike my parents bought me.
[20:25.560 -> 20:28.120] I'll be like, you know, people try to mug me,
[20:28.120 -> 20:29.400] I'll be punched.
[20:29.400 -> 20:31.480] You know, I was being chased a lot, you know,
[20:31.480 -> 20:34.880] like I was scared every single day.
[20:34.880 -> 20:38.920] And I realized that courage was in the absence
[20:38.920 -> 20:41.240] of that thing we will call in fear.
[20:41.240 -> 20:42.680] Like it was just what you do with it.
[20:42.680 -> 20:46.080] So I just kind of, I just put fear in my pocket
[20:46.080 -> 20:49.920] and do what wasn't kind of like supposed to happen,
[20:49.920 -> 20:52.360] you know, so what the fear would stop me from doing,
[20:52.360 -> 20:54.720] once I put it in my pocket, I was able to do it,
[20:54.720 -> 20:56.160] but I was still afraid, you know,
[20:56.160 -> 20:57.560] I just kept on practicing that.
[20:57.560 -> 20:59.960] So then they'll be like, all right, give me your phone.
[20:59.960 -> 21:01.800] And I'm terrified and I'll be like, no,
[21:01.800 -> 21:03.960] I'm not giving you my phone.
[21:03.960 -> 21:05.760] And then they'll be like, what do you mean you're not giving?
[21:05.760 -> 21:07.880] And I said, no, you're not getting my phone.
[21:07.880 -> 21:10.600] And then literally be like, all right, what do we do here?
[21:10.600 -> 21:12.200] And it might not even be so successful.
[21:12.200 -> 21:13.760] They might even get the phone at the end,
[21:13.760 -> 21:16.400] but I practiced it and I just kept on practicing it.
[21:16.400 -> 21:18.080] And it was almost like a muscle.
[21:18.080 -> 21:21.520] Eventually I got to a point where I got a lot of my
[21:21.520 -> 21:25.000] kind of notoriety for being fearless.
[21:26.560 -> 21:29.320] Mine wasn't about like the amount of violence
[21:29.320 -> 21:32.560] I perpetrated or about the amount of money I made.
[21:32.560 -> 21:34.760] That's not why I got my notoriety.
[21:34.760 -> 21:37.700] I got my notoriety from being considered fearless.
[21:37.700 -> 21:39.800] So give us the most extreme example
[21:39.800 -> 21:41.680] that we could understand of where you-
[21:41.680 -> 21:43.080] Of fearlessness.
[21:43.080 -> 21:45.080] What that fearlessness looked like.
[21:45.080 -> 21:49.240] I mean, this knife wound that I got on my face,
[21:49.240 -> 21:51.560] like I knew he had a knife, I'd still fight.
[21:51.560 -> 21:53.920] I fought him with my fist, you know,
[21:53.920 -> 21:58.320] while he had a knife, you know, that was quite like,
[21:58.320 -> 22:00.760] I did that quite regularly on things like situations
[22:00.760 -> 22:04.240] that I won't run if I'm outnumbered.
[22:04.240 -> 22:06.360] But is that not like, is
[22:06.360 -> 22:15.660] that not recklessness or stupidity rather than fearlessness? It is, it is, but I mean everything is, you know, until you pull it off, you know, it's all
[22:15.660 -> 22:20.480] reckless and stupid until it lands, you know, so the fact that I landed it, it was
[22:20.480 -> 22:30.120] then internal. Yeah, but you're not, but what intrigues me is you were a child genius you're not stupid. Yeah. So the clever thing in that situation is find a way
[22:30.120 -> 22:35.960] out of it, talk your way out of it but to go and have a fist fight. It seems like that
[22:35.960 -> 22:45.000] but then what happens is that you actually end up um you magnetize more misfortune when you cower.
[22:47.000 -> 22:51.000] So the less you cower, it's actually, it's a weird equation
[22:51.000 -> 22:54.440] but then the less those situations kind of gravitate
[22:54.440 -> 22:57.220] towards you because people kind of figure you one
[22:57.220 -> 22:59.500] not to mess with, you know?
[22:59.500 -> 23:03.400] So by using kind of like extreme situations
[23:03.400 -> 23:05.220] where you're able to exhibit the fact that you are actually like not afraid, you know, everyone kind of like extreme situations where you're able to exhibit the fact
[23:05.220 -> 23:08.260] that you are actually like not afraid,
[23:08.260 -> 23:10.520] you know, everyone kind of knows you for that
[23:10.520 -> 23:13.200] and they tend to not kind of deal with you a certain way.
[23:13.200 -> 23:15.600] There's a Jamaican saying that,
[23:15.600 -> 23:17.280] Dapi know who to frighten.
[23:17.280 -> 23:19.560] And Dapi is basically like ghosts, you know,
[23:19.560 -> 23:20.920] knows who to go boo to.
[23:20.920 -> 23:22.880] If you're not afraid, they tend to leave you alone.
[23:22.880 -> 23:23.720] And that was-
[23:23.720 -> 23:24.680] See, but I'd imagine,
[23:24.680 -> 23:28.080] and this is probably coming from a different perspective that you'd
[23:28.080 -> 23:31.760] it just increases the size of the target on your back because there's always
[23:31.760 -> 23:35.720] somebody then that goes I'll take him down because I wouldn't be the king of
[23:35.720 -> 23:41.680] the hill. I mean this is something that I was later on I later realized but
[23:41.680 -> 23:47.280] these were later revelations so it kind of goes through these sort of curves
[23:47.280 -> 23:48.560] on the graph, you know.
[23:48.560 -> 23:52.040] Initially, it gave me a level of immunity.
[23:52.040 -> 23:54.860] It was like, everyone knew that you don't really pick on me
[23:54.860 -> 23:56.920] because if you pick on me, all my friends,
[23:56.920 -> 23:58.040] I'm going to stick up for it.
[23:58.040 -> 24:00.320] And like, you might be embarrassed.
[24:00.320 -> 24:02.680] You might have wanted to kind of get some sort
[24:02.680 -> 24:07.120] and then you might end up with humiliation. So they just be like, all right, I'd rather not,
[24:07.120 -> 24:09.120] there's too much of a risky venture there.
[24:09.120 -> 24:12.760] You know, so as my notoriety grew, you're right,
[24:12.760 -> 24:14.560] it made me more visible.
[24:14.560 -> 24:17.360] And then other players began to then see me
[24:17.360 -> 24:18.200] in a certain way.
[24:18.200 -> 24:20.080] And that's why you just continue,
[24:20.080 -> 24:23.800] you try at least to continually perform highly
[24:23.800 -> 24:26.280] and make sure that they don't kind of like,
[24:26.280 -> 24:29.000] you don't exhibit any kind of weakness in that way.
[24:29.000 -> 24:30.120] But I was very fortunate.
[24:30.120 -> 24:32.800] Like I don't say it in a way, like it's not a science.
[24:32.800 -> 24:35.240] You know, as you're saying, one plus one equals two.
[24:35.240 -> 24:36.640] You know, if I went against the knife,
[24:36.640 -> 24:39.120] the reality is that I should have got a lot more
[24:39.120 -> 24:42.480] than two kind of like incisions here and there.
[24:42.480 -> 24:44.520] You know, like I've been shot at more times
[24:44.520 -> 24:50.080] than I had birthday parties. I tend to turn to flight men that's even come at me with firearms,
[24:50.080 -> 24:55.120] you know, and there's something weird about it. I mean, I watched something on YouTube
[24:55.120 -> 24:58.560] years ago, it never left me, but I was like, that's the closest thing to what I was pulling
[24:58.560 -> 25:03.560] off sometimes. And it's about these guys in Nairobi that just literally wake up and take
[25:03.560 -> 25:08.240] the lion's supper. Like there's a whole tribe of lions and it doesn't make any sense
[25:08.240 -> 25:12.400] because technically the lions should be putting them to flight because they're
[25:12.400 -> 25:17.640] the apex in that situation. However, just with formation and a kind of like a
[25:17.640 -> 25:22.520] certain level of kind of like doggedness, for some reason it just caused them to
[25:22.520 -> 25:28.880] retreat and I saw that a fair bit But again, I was very lucky but was there ever moments that you know
[25:28.880 -> 25:34.380] Like you've escaped a bully you've escaped a more serious knife injury that I
[25:34.900 -> 25:38.840] Get the idea of showing face in front of a wider group of people
[25:38.840 -> 25:43.120] But when you go home at night and you that quiet moment where you're in your bedroom
[25:43.700 -> 25:49.640] Where did the fear come in then? How did you process this and deal with it? I think it was playing
[25:49.640 -> 25:56.980] out in the hype of performance. I think it was actually playing, my fear was
[25:56.980 -> 26:02.880] actually playing out in how much I was presenting fearlessness. I don't think it
[26:02.880 -> 26:05.700] was ever a non-factor, you know, I don't feel
[26:05.700 -> 26:09.960] like there was ever a time like I put down the fear and had to pick it up like
[26:09.960 -> 26:13.880] maybe at night where I'm thinking, blimmin' heck, like look the day was scary.
[26:13.880 -> 26:17.840] You know, I think I was constantly scared, actually I know I was constantly scared.
[26:17.840 -> 26:24.320] You know, I just got to a point where I never exhibited that fear and I knew how
[26:24.320 -> 26:26.960] to maneuver with it, you know, but I was always scared fear and I knew how to maneuver with it you know
[26:26.960 -> 26:29.960] but I was always scared like I was definitely frightened.
[26:29.960 -> 26:34.080] The big juxtaposition here for me is like you are such a bright and eloquent
[26:34.080 -> 26:39.280] person the way you talk about what you went through the fact that you rose to
[26:39.280 -> 26:43.280] the top of the gang using love I think that's a an amazing revelation and I
[26:43.280 -> 26:45.920] think that should be really educational for a lot of people listening to this
[26:45.920 -> 26:48.560] that think that the whole thing about gang culture
[26:48.560 -> 26:51.520] is hatred and anger and part of the reason
[26:51.520 -> 26:52.920] you're in that gang is the love
[26:52.920 -> 26:56.560] and the desire to stay alive effectively.
[26:56.560 -> 26:58.680] But at the same time, despite the fact
[26:58.680 -> 27:02.280] that you were this incredibly bright guy as you are now,
[27:02.280 -> 27:08.100] you just valued life, I I guess as worthless because you were
[27:08.100 -> 27:11.640] looking to take someone's life, they were looking to take your life, you existed in
[27:11.640 -> 27:14.560] a world where you could be killed as you said over a PlayStation game.
[27:14.560 -> 27:19.560] Yeah. It's so not you though is it? Were you in the real depth of this? Yeah. Were
[27:19.560 -> 27:23.100] you aware that like this is not you or were you so in it you couldn't see that
[27:23.100 -> 27:32.800] anymore? Do you know what it is? Initially I knew it wasn't me. Like I've every single day it was a I had to
[27:32.800 -> 27:41.220] molest myself. I had to massage this facade you know into place and it was
[27:41.220 -> 27:45.280] actually quite painful initially but I mean like anything
[27:45.280 -> 27:51.600] acclimatization is a real thing you do something long enough consistently
[27:51.600 -> 28:00.920] enough you know you will become it you know so I embodied it but yeah no it was
[28:00.920 -> 28:06.400] a tough gig when you look back on, like at the time everything's going on,
[28:06.400 -> 28:08.240] so you don't really get to,
[28:08.240 -> 28:10.120] there's not much time for meditation.
[28:10.120 -> 28:13.040] You know, you're not getting into a kind of Zen space
[28:13.040 -> 28:15.360] where you're able to really see what's happening.
[28:15.360 -> 28:19.520] But the value for life, my own and others included,
[28:19.520 -> 28:23.680] definitely it deteriorated, you know,
[28:23.680 -> 28:25.000] to a point where, I mean,
[28:25.320 -> 28:27.720] the splitting effect is brilliant for that.
[28:27.720 -> 28:31.040] You know, you could split even the splitting effect
[28:31.040 -> 28:35.320] of my own self, because I was going by my alias.
[28:35.320 -> 28:37.520] I mean, I don't think it was so much Karl
[28:37.520 -> 28:40.520] that I didn't value, it was more Lox I didn't value,
[28:40.520 -> 28:42.800] was what they used to call me, you know?
[28:42.800 -> 28:45.400] And I feel like it's also with the split effect
[28:45.400 -> 28:47.440] affecting us and them,
[28:47.440 -> 28:50.000] like unless you kind of demonize the other,
[28:50.000 -> 28:53.640] you can't move against them in a certain way,
[28:53.640 -> 28:55.960] but we do that with almost everything today.
[28:55.960 -> 28:58.080] That's why prejudices are all the time high
[28:58.080 -> 29:02.760] because we really are good at saying them and other.
[29:02.760 -> 29:05.160] Is there anything left of Lox now?
[29:05.160 -> 29:07.520] Absolutely, this is just Lox 4.0,
[29:08.440 -> 29:10.360] but without the Lox, it's just car 4.0.
[29:10.360 -> 29:11.560] So what's left of the Lox
[29:11.560 -> 29:13.400] that was on the streets in those days?
[29:13.400 -> 29:14.980] I got hypervigilant still,
[29:16.240 -> 29:19.760] like I can't help but watch everything,
[29:19.760 -> 29:24.760] so I get more from maybe grooves by a lip and an eye
[29:24.920 -> 29:25.000] than I do maybe conversation, I get more from maybe grooves by a lip and an eye
[29:25.000 -> 29:28.280] than I do maybe conversation, you know,
[29:28.280 -> 29:31.940] because I've had to learn to read very quickly
[29:31.940 -> 29:35.280] in very, you know, sketchy and real scenarios.
[29:35.280 -> 29:38.680] Also, some of the revelations I came to
[29:38.680 -> 29:40.440] on a street level that, I mean,
[29:40.440 -> 29:43.640] there's better ways of coming to those realizations,
[29:43.640 -> 29:46.120] you know, but I mean, I was fortunate enough
[29:46.120 -> 29:48.280] to live through that.
[29:48.280 -> 29:49.800] Can you share some of the revelations?
[29:49.800 -> 29:51.600] I mean, that everybody's human.
[29:52.480 -> 29:55.720] One of my things that's really kind of given my overall
[29:56.580 -> 29:59.560] social mobility or I don't know,
[30:00.540 -> 30:03.320] being kind of well-networked or my progression
[30:03.320 -> 30:09.840] and what I mean, it's because I humanize everyone because the streets lets you know people are very human, very
[30:09.840 -> 30:14.240] very human so I struggle to be starstruck I struggle to be kind of
[30:14.240 -> 30:20.720] intimidated by someone that I know like it's just a person you know because
[30:20.720 -> 30:26.520] everyone's just people you know at the end of day. So the streets really highlight that though.
[30:26.520 -> 30:29.640] What about your ability to see through other people's masks?
[30:29.640 -> 30:33.200] I mean, I think it was for chicken, you know,
[30:33.200 -> 30:34.280] just playing that game.
[30:34.280 -> 30:37.760] Like I was, I had a mask on, they had a mask on,
[30:37.760 -> 30:41.600] and then we just see whose mask is, you know, fastened,
[30:41.600 -> 30:44.400] you know, harder, you know, essentially.
[30:44.400 -> 30:47.040] So I feel like just kind of being in those scenarios
[30:47.040 -> 30:49.280] really got me to really be aware
[30:49.280 -> 30:52.320] that everyone's kind of like presenting a certain thought,
[30:52.320 -> 30:54.520] a certain face, sorry, you know,
[30:54.520 -> 30:57.080] that necessarily might not be their face.
[30:57.080 -> 30:59.680] So what were the best tells that you spotted then?
[30:59.680 -> 31:02.200] I think it's mainly around the voice.
[31:03.080 -> 31:04.400] I think certain octaves in there
[31:04.400 -> 31:07.400] that I kind of got sensitive to, you know?
[31:07.400 -> 31:10.000] I think the voice don't lie, you know?
[31:10.000 -> 31:13.040] Majority of things your face can do certain things.
[31:13.040 -> 31:15.120] You can even your physiology,
[31:15.120 -> 31:16.880] you can kind of put it in a certain way,
[31:16.880 -> 31:21.480] but it's kind of harder to control the voice in a like,
[31:21.480 -> 31:23.120] unless you are actually,
[31:23.120 -> 31:25.040] so there's a way that I was able to-
[31:25.040 -> 31:27.040] Someone could be telling you one thing,
[31:27.040 -> 31:27.880] and you're looking at them and thinking,
[31:27.880 -> 31:29.800] your voice tells me something totally different.
[31:29.800 -> 31:31.240] Absolutely.
[31:31.240 -> 31:33.080] It's an incredible study of people, isn't it?
[31:33.080 -> 31:35.240] That I don't think anyone appreciates when it,
[31:35.240 -> 31:38.240] I mean, you know, life and death is on the line, right?
[31:38.240 -> 31:41.160] So you're looking for every possible percent
[31:41.160 -> 31:42.840] to get one over somebody else,
[31:42.840 -> 31:46.600] and it's come down to the finest of of margins which I guess over the years
[31:46.920 -> 31:52.880] Actually kept you alive. Yeah, absolutely and lens to me today. Yeah in a huge way for sure
[31:53.000 -> 31:57.440] So if we can move on to yeah the car today that sat there
[31:57.440 -> 32:02.240] I think the bit that's fascinating in your journey is that transition that change?
[32:02.720 -> 32:05.840] When I was reading your story Carla was I was reminded of the change equation yw'r trafod, y newid. Pan roeddwn i'n ddarlunio eich stori, Carl, roeddwn i'n golygu
[32:05.840 -> 32:11.120] y newid o'r gweithlewyr sy'n defnyddio'r busnes yn aml, ond mae'n gallu'i ddefnyddio mewn trafodau personol.
[32:12.640 -> 32:16.160] Mae'r newid o'r gweithlewyr yn dweud bod yna'n llawn fformwlau, y byddwn yn rhaid i ni gael
[32:16.160 -> 32:21.760] ddysgwylio gyda lle rydyn ni, y status quo. Rhaid i ni gael ddewis lle rydyn ni eisiau mynd
[32:21.760 -> 32:27.400] i mewn i mewn, beth oedd y pwysigrwydd. Ac yna rhaid i ni gwybod beth yw'n ein stepyn cyntaf have to have a vision of where we want to go to instead what the alternative could be and then we have to know what our first step we can take towards that
[32:27.400 -> 32:31.360] is and if you get those three things right that's enough to overcome the
[32:31.360 -> 32:36.840] resistance of being stuck in those old patterns. So if we can I'd like to
[32:36.840 -> 32:42.360] talk about the change that you underwent through those three things so what was
[32:42.360 -> 32:45.340] the dissatisfaction element of your life?
[32:45.340 -> 32:46.840] And which change are we talking about?
[32:46.840 -> 32:48.760] Intergangsterism or out of gangsterism?
[32:48.760 -> 32:49.600] Out of gangsterism.
[32:49.600 -> 32:51.440] Out of gangsterism.
[32:51.440 -> 32:53.680] The dissatisfaction actually came
[32:53.680 -> 32:56.560] when my definition of winning changed.
[32:56.560 -> 32:58.440] At one point, as I said about high performance,
[32:58.440 -> 33:00.840] I actually thought we were winning.
[33:00.840 -> 33:03.480] This is like, this is the cards we've been dealt.
[33:03.480 -> 33:06.800] This is the best, like that has
[33:06.800 -> 33:13.320] been presented to us, you know, so for a very long time I believed that what the
[33:13.320 -> 33:19.040] rest of the mainstream would kind of define as losing, as like loss as gain,
[33:19.040 -> 33:27.560] like it was that skewed, you know, So I got really dissatisfied with losing. I don't
[33:27.560 -> 33:31.400] really lose often. I don't like to lose. I don't even play games for that. I don't
[33:31.400 -> 33:35.120] want it to enter my inner matrix at all. Like my friends would tell you I'm a
[33:35.120 -> 33:39.520] complete weirdo in that regard. I just don't like having references to losing.
[33:39.520 -> 33:44.320] I have something against it. So what did the definition become then? I mean it was basically opposites, you know.
[33:44.320 -> 33:46.960] So, whereas it was quite like, you know,
[33:46.960 -> 33:49.560] one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter,
[33:49.560 -> 33:50.440] you know, essentially.
[33:50.440 -> 33:53.640] So the exact same actions, but your interpretation of it,
[33:53.640 -> 33:54.960] like, I'm like, all right, cool.
[33:54.960 -> 33:59.120] You went to maybe defend the quote unquote block,
[33:59.120 -> 34:01.680] and then now you've been arrested
[34:01.680 -> 34:04.800] and sentenced, incarcerated to X amount of years,
[34:04.800 -> 34:07.480] but that was honorable.
[34:07.480 -> 34:10.980] Like you did what you needed to do to protect us,
[34:10.980 -> 34:12.780] to protect you and yours.
[34:12.780 -> 34:14.580] I'm like big, massive respect.
[34:14.580 -> 34:19.500] That's worthy, you know, worth the time, you know,
[34:19.500 -> 34:21.780] of worth, of value, you know?
[34:21.780 -> 34:22.820] And yeah, I mean,
[34:22.820 -> 34:25.520] I started to see that as a complete waste of bravery.
[34:26.240 -> 34:33.920] Like this is a complete squander. I mean, you could be, you're sat down now doing absolutely
[34:33.920 -> 34:39.360] nothing when, you know, you could be contributing in a certain way and what to defend the council
[34:39.360 -> 34:49.260] estate that our parents still have to pay council tax for and technically like you know I mean they don't even come and fix the sewers it smells of sewage you know but like
[34:49.260 -> 34:53.620] here we are creating these grand fantasies about what it is and I mean
[34:53.620 -> 34:58.180] desperation does that, exclusion does that you know you begin to kind of
[34:58.180 -> 35:03.380] fabricate certain things you know but that fabrication became unwoven and I
[35:03.380 -> 35:05.600] knew that that was losing I just didn't want to lose
[35:05.600 -> 35:12.080] no more. So that was the dissatisfaction. At Fred Meyer, shopping with pickup and delivery
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[37:19.360 -> 37:22.040] So we've spoken a lot about bravery
[37:22.040 -> 37:24.080] when you're involved in gangsterism.
[37:24.080 -> 37:25.160] Let's talk about the bravery
[37:25.160 -> 37:30.680] of getting out. How on earth do you take the very first step to walk away from this life
[37:30.680 -> 37:32.720] that you are absolutely wrapped up in?
[37:32.720 -> 37:40.400] I mean I wish I could say a way of mitigating risk. There was none, like entering was risky,
[37:40.400 -> 37:47.000] leaving was also risky. You know I had a huge faith element which helped me, you
[37:47.000 -> 37:54.680] know, so I was like, you know, I would rather live and go in this way.
[37:54.680 -> 37:56.320] You mean die?
[37:56.320 -> 37:57.320] Yeah.
[37:57.320 -> 37:59.760] Then to live and stay in this capacity.
[37:59.760 -> 38:04.640] So you'd rather have tried to leave gangsterism and been killed than remain a gangster for
[38:04.640 -> 38:05.280] the rest of your life.
[38:05.840 -> 38:10.800] So I know there was a really important person in this whole equation. Yeah, Pastor Mimi and she's
[38:10.800 -> 38:17.040] definitely part of this conversation. But what was the very, what's the first thing you do for people
[38:17.040 -> 38:20.720] that are listening to this? And you know, there will be people listen to this actually who find
[38:20.720 -> 38:28.080] themselves in not dissimilar situations to where you were at. What was the very first thing that you, that you did to start this process?
[38:28.080 -> 38:35.200] I think the very first thing I did was tell those around me exactly what I'm about to
[38:35.200 -> 38:41.560] do and what I'm not about to do anymore. So I, that was a significant move.
[38:41.560 -> 38:45.320] That's difficult for your fellow gang members though, because that's then a threat, right?
[38:45.320 -> 38:46.320] Do you know what?
[38:46.320 -> 38:50.160] Remember it's all around the, let's take the concept, let's say, imagine I actually
[38:50.160 -> 38:52.280] pulled this together through love.
[38:52.280 -> 38:53.280] Yeah.
[38:53.280 -> 38:58.720] Like it's a threat and it's not a threat because we've loved on each other in a certain way
[38:58.720 -> 39:03.880] and our expression of love has been quite skewed and you know, perverted, but ultimately
[39:03.880 -> 39:08.840] at its essence, that's what it's been. It's been, I am my brother'swed and you know perverted but ultimately at its essence that's what it's been it's been I am my brother's keeper you know so essentially
[39:08.840 -> 39:12.640] they knew I was doing what I was doing for them out of love so I came and
[39:12.640 -> 39:17.240] approached them and spoke to them also out of love and said listen the police
[39:17.240 -> 39:21.080] or what they called me on the first name basis they stopped my father and they'll
[39:21.080 -> 39:24.780] be like and they'll tell him about his son you know like they got my picture in
[39:24.780 -> 39:28.880] the station like they told me to stop I never stopped you
[39:28.880 -> 39:33.200] know my mother who kind of carried me nine months gave birth to me clothed me
[39:33.200 -> 39:37.440] she begged me to stop I never stopped you know but for this this is for me I
[39:37.440 -> 39:42.720] just don't believe in it no more it's not true. What was their reaction though? I mean
[39:42.720 -> 39:45.880] they were very supportive. I mean I know
[39:45.880 -> 39:49.520] they wouldn't have painted it out they would rather I said something different but
[39:49.520 -> 39:53.800] they would. I mean like I mean when I say they it's like DJ Khaled they
[39:53.800 -> 39:57.040] it's like they don't want us to win you know it's always they who is actually
[39:57.040 -> 40:01.160] they but I mean like yeah that's just the reality like initially then they
[40:01.160 -> 40:07.200] began to account for the loss that I was, you know,
[40:07.200 -> 40:10.120] and then in the weaknesses,
[40:10.120 -> 40:13.560] the weakness it may have articulated
[40:13.560 -> 40:15.920] to those that were at loggerheads with,
[40:15.920 -> 40:19.440] that's when it began to become a bit of an issue.
[40:19.440 -> 40:22.080] And I could tell that there was some slight resentment,
[40:22.080 -> 40:23.440] you know, but other than that,
[40:23.440 -> 40:28.240] initially when I told them about it, and I mean, everyone was on resentment, you know, but other than that initially when I told them about it and I mean everyone was on board, you know, and even
[40:28.240 -> 40:34.040] when it went through that kind of like trough, I was still able to kind of speak
[40:34.040 -> 40:38.400] to them and they spoke to me and they were quite like honest with me, you know,
[40:38.400 -> 40:42.080] but I mean you can't please everybody but I'll say the majority was really
[40:42.080 -> 40:46.320] happy for me. So was there ever an incident then where you thought
[40:46.320 -> 40:48.400] almost like a victimless crime, for example,
[40:48.400 -> 40:50.240] where you know you could have gone back,
[40:50.240 -> 40:52.840] earned yourself some money,
[40:52.840 -> 40:54.600] and then still gone back on that path?
[40:54.600 -> 40:55.440] Plenty.
[40:55.440 -> 40:56.960] So how did you resist that then?
[40:56.960 -> 41:01.120] Because I connected my exodus to all of theirs.
[41:02.720 -> 41:07.560] I couldn't do it for just me, like from being honest.
[41:07.560 -> 41:11.720] But me thinking that me breaking away
[41:11.720 -> 41:14.780] is going to give them, I'll be a living epistle
[41:14.780 -> 41:16.860] for it being possible.
[41:16.860 -> 41:19.040] You know, they'll be able to draw inspiration
[41:19.040 -> 41:21.400] and maybe even take direction from it.
[41:21.400 -> 41:24.800] I mean, the prospect of that, that motivated me.
[41:24.800 -> 41:27.160] So even when I knew, you
[41:27.160 -> 41:32.160] know, because I still had that agility, you know, I'd spent years developing
[41:32.160 -> 41:36.800] that. And I needed certain things from time to time, but I always kind of
[41:36.800 -> 41:42.000] thought that that might be a point of contact for them to no longer believe or
[41:42.000 -> 41:45.560] no longer attempt. So as a result, yeah.
[41:45.560 -> 41:47.760] Which sounds very much like the vision bit.
[41:47.760 -> 41:50.040] You had the vision of what you wanted to be instead
[41:50.040 -> 41:52.040] to on that change equation.
[41:52.040 -> 41:53.640] So let's talk about Pastor Mimi then,
[41:53.640 -> 41:55.440] because from what I understand,
[41:55.440 -> 41:58.400] the questions she was asking were forcing you
[41:58.400 -> 42:00.720] to think very much around your identity
[42:00.720 -> 42:02.240] of who you wanted to be.
[42:02.240 -> 42:03.560] Absolutely.
[42:03.560 -> 42:12.000] So yeah, I mean, Pastor Mimi has this amazing way of not identifying someone by what they do.
[42:12.000 -> 42:17.000] Like, she genuinely, like, it goes over her head.
[42:17.000 -> 42:24.000] Like, it's like, the arc's like, oh, introduce yourself and then you say what you do.
[42:24.000 -> 42:28.000] She's like, but that's, I mean, who am I meeting? That's you at
[42:28.000 -> 42:34.560] work or you in that capacity, you know. So she had this stance that she
[42:34.560 -> 42:39.920] never actually flinched from. It was unflinching. She would say,
[42:39.920 -> 42:44.880] you aren't a gang member, you are a young man that has embraced
[42:44.880 -> 42:46.680] gangsterism.
[42:46.680 -> 42:48.960] It's an ism that you've embraced.
[42:48.960 -> 42:50.800] If you let go of that ism,
[42:50.800 -> 42:52.480] you will realize you are not that thing
[42:52.480 -> 42:54.920] and people will judge you by that ism.
[42:54.920 -> 42:57.080] But that's literally an ideology,
[42:57.080 -> 42:59.680] that is not who you are, you know?
[42:59.680 -> 43:03.860] So she kind of made me see it as something that,
[43:03.860 -> 43:06.240] at one point I'd kind of identified
[43:06.240 -> 43:12.760] that I am X I am Y but she's let me know I am carrying X.
[43:12.760 -> 43:20.200] That must have been so powerful for you to hear that because you want out, you want this exit but part of the fear is well how can I exit
[43:20.200 -> 43:23.480] something if I am that thing? This is it. And suddenly she's telling you that
[43:23.480 -> 43:27.200] you're not the thing. She's telling me I thought I was a demon but I'm just, I'm not.
[43:27.200 -> 43:32.520] You know, so I'm like, blimmin' heck, so maybe we can all dogs do go to heaven. And I think,
[43:32.520 -> 43:35.760] let's be clear for people listening to this, that you know, Pastor Mimi wasn't,
[43:35.760 -> 43:40.960] you know, some out-of-touch local pastor that had no understanding of your life
[43:40.960 -> 43:45.120] and Afghan culture, you know, she, she was in, in her own way
[43:45.120 -> 43:47.040] immersed in the world that you were immersed in.
[43:47.040 -> 43:49.040] She got immersed in it.
[43:49.040 -> 43:55.400] Initially, she was the equivalent of like being, I mean, the furthest thing from it,
[43:55.400 -> 44:00.640] like my parents, you know, not having an understanding, thinking that maybe we're
[44:00.640 -> 44:07.100] stealing mobile phones, when we definitely, like that was like a whole maybe seven years ago.
[44:07.100 -> 44:09.280] You know, we had definitely gone on to,
[44:09.280 -> 44:11.200] I don't know, we're gonna call it green apostas
[44:11.200 -> 44:13.160] or maybe not so green apostas.
[44:13.160 -> 44:16.360] You know, so literally like,
[44:17.320 -> 44:19.240] she ended up buying enough more than she can chew
[44:19.240 -> 44:20.840] and just chewed it anyway.
[44:20.840 -> 44:23.800] You know, but she did have that drive
[44:23.800 -> 44:25.720] that she went to save her son also
[44:25.720 -> 44:29.920] who was in a gang yeah he was involved with me my right-hand man and yeah
[44:29.920 -> 44:35.520] essentially she just gave a damn gave it her all gave up her time and made it
[44:35.520 -> 44:40.580] happen without no government funding no real government assistance at all you
[44:40.580 -> 44:44.080] know just kind of just opened up her home and made it happen.
[44:44.080 -> 44:49.320] See what you're describing here is the, it's very similar to the work of a guy
[44:49.320 -> 44:53.800] called James March who was a political scientist that looked at how voters
[44:53.800 -> 44:59.080] voted. So traditionally people think people vote for cost versus benefit I'll
[44:59.080 -> 45:02.760] vote for them that saved me the biggest taxes and what he found is the vast
[45:02.760 -> 45:09.200] majority of voters vote for identity and the identity is three questions who am I i mi ymwneud â'r fwyaf o ffyrdd. Ac yw'r hyn rydych chi wedi'i ddod o mewn yw'r mwyaf o ddewydwyr yn ymwneud â'r eiddo. Ac mae'r eiddo yn tri cwestiynau. Yn fy nesaf?
[45:09.200 -> 45:12.640] Pa syniad yw hwn? Ac beth byddai rhywun fel mi yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd
[45:12.640 -> 45:18.000] yn y syniad hon? Felly byddwn i'n mwynhau ymdrechu hyn gyda chi Carl.
[45:18.000 -> 45:21.120] Felly cyn i chi fynd i Pastamimi a chael y penderfyniad
[45:21.120 -> 45:23.520] oedd hwn yn bywyd rydych chi eisiau ei ddod allan o,
[45:23.520 -> 45:26.440] yn y syniad lle rydych chi ar y strydau ac mae rhywun yn eich ddifrifio, and decided this was a life you wanted to get out of, in a situation where you're on the streets
[45:26.440 -> 45:28.600] and somebody disrespects you,
[45:28.600 -> 45:30.400] how would you have answered those three questions?
[45:30.400 -> 45:31.220] Who am I?
[45:31.220 -> 45:32.560] What's the situation?
[45:32.560 -> 45:33.400] What would I do?
[45:33.400 -> 45:38.400] I mean, again, this is why I'm convinced
[45:40.720 -> 45:43.040] I was always scared,
[45:43.040 -> 45:45.360] because it was quite
[45:47.440 -> 45:53.800] Delusional as to who like if I like was to give my valid answer at that point
[45:54.000 -> 45:56.940] the reason why I would turn to flight maybe
[45:58.240 -> 46:05.400] 20 young men, you know on my own is because I'm operating under a level of delusion.
[46:05.400 -> 46:09.840] I would literally think I am, I don't know,
[46:09.840 -> 46:11.620] almost like a demigod.
[46:11.620 -> 46:16.620] Like, literally, it's like, I am a street king.
[46:17.120 -> 46:19.760] Like, I am council estate royalty.
[46:19.760 -> 46:23.560] I am like Brixton's baddest.
[46:23.560 -> 46:28.560] There's no one beyond, further, bigger, more able,
[46:28.800 -> 46:30.680] you know, so if you're asking,
[46:30.680 -> 46:33.720] that was kind of like what I would like,
[46:33.720 -> 46:35.400] that would be my answer at that time,
[46:35.400 -> 46:36.820] like if you asked me.
[46:36.820 -> 46:39.000] So today, what would your answer
[46:39.000 -> 46:40.720] to those three questions be now?
[46:40.720 -> 46:41.980] Do you know what?
[46:41.980 -> 46:44.880] Good question, because there's still a level of delusion,
[46:44.880 -> 46:45.480] for sure.
[46:45.480 -> 46:46.920] I might not be able to pull off
[46:46.920 -> 46:48.640] what I'm pulling off all the time.
[46:48.640 -> 46:51.880] But my answer now would be,
[46:51.880 -> 46:56.720] I still have this ability angle.
[46:56.720 -> 46:59.920] So I always feel like I am able.
[46:59.920 -> 47:02.240] So the moments like a situation comes
[47:02.240 -> 47:04.920] and kind of says contrary,
[47:04.920 -> 47:06.320] I kind of present myself
[47:06.320 -> 47:12.560] as I am able, like almost like my name is able, like I am actually able, you know, so
[47:12.560 -> 47:14.880] I still have that, but in a certain way.
[47:14.880 -> 47:17.340] So yeah, I'm able.
[47:17.340 -> 47:21.080] This whole thing though, this comes back to, I think it comes back to education.
[47:21.080 -> 47:25.740] You know, 99% of people are judging the life that you lived in that gang from the outside
[47:25.740 -> 47:27.240] with no knowledge or understanding.
[47:27.240 -> 47:29.480] They don't realize that you got to the top through love.
[47:29.480 -> 47:33.080] They don't realize you managed to exit through using love.
[47:33.080 -> 47:35.300] It was only when Pastor Mimi embraced
[47:35.300 -> 47:39.020] that gang culture life she was able to see this.
[47:39.020 -> 47:41.120] There's an absolute recurring theme here, isn't there?
[47:41.120 -> 47:42.460] That the reason why you excelled at school
[47:42.460 -> 47:47.060] was because you were the kind of person that wanted to excel Yeah, you excelled in the gang because you wanted to excel
[47:47.060 -> 47:47.500] Yeah
[47:47.500 -> 47:53.360] You're excelling now in your business ventures and all the things you've done and you've raised tens of different hundreds of thousands of pounds
[47:53.360 -> 47:55.360] For charity because you want to excel
[47:56.040 -> 48:00.140] But what you and everyone else needs to realize is that we're all wearing a mask all the time
[48:00.140 -> 48:03.260] Yeah, I'm wearing a mask when I see her and pretend I've got decent questions
[48:03.260 -> 48:08.220] Yeah, you know Damon's wears a mask when he stands up in front of students at a university and lectures to them
[48:08.220 -> 48:12.820] Yeah, all of us are wearing a mask all of the time, but none of us put any
[48:13.520 -> 48:18.780] Value or credit in a trying to understand why someone is wearing that mask. I mean, that's why
[48:19.300 -> 48:24.080] This conversation around gun culture is wrong all the time. We just believe they're bad people
[48:24.080 -> 48:30.760] Yeah, and as we're talking about here, they they are generally good people in bad situations. Yeah, absolutely
[48:32.200 -> 48:35.000] Absolutely. So what what should we be doing now?
[48:35.760 -> 48:37.320] to change
[48:37.320 -> 48:42.760] Gang culture today, you know you turn on the news and it's absent parents wrong. Oh, it's a
[48:43.600 -> 48:46.480] Grime music wrong. Oh, you know, it's because
[48:46.480 -> 48:53.180] they're bored wrong. What should be our message from this podcast to people that are going
[48:53.180 -> 48:56.480] down the wrong path because there's gangs in every town and every city in this country?
[48:56.480 -> 49:05.000] Absolutely. Do you know what? I feel like it is more a collective move and a collective effort.
[49:07.160 -> 49:10.200] And that collective move and collective effort
[49:10.200 -> 49:12.480] needs to be towards inclusion.
[49:12.480 -> 49:16.320] Like they did a study several years ago in Saudi Arabia
[49:16.320 -> 49:18.600] and they were trying to work out what the correlation
[49:18.600 -> 49:23.240] between those who had been kind of picked up as extremists
[49:23.240 -> 49:27.000] and they all seem to have engineering degrees and they're
[49:27.000 -> 49:33.700] like, what's going on? What's in the engineering degree water? So essentially with a bit of
[49:33.700 -> 49:40.280] probing they realised that basically SA had put a call out to the nation and said, listen,
[49:40.280 -> 49:43.380] and obviously it being Saudi Arabia, most young men answer that call saying, we need
[49:43.380 -> 49:47.520] engineers, we are pushing forward the vision of this country, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[49:47.520 -> 49:53.120] blah. So they all kind of responded to that call. And in their response to that call, actually,
[49:53.120 -> 50:00.560] when it was time to actually give the jobs, it was then outsourced to the UK and US engineers.
[50:00.560 -> 50:06.680] And then a lot of them felt jilted. a lot of them felt displaced, a lot of them
[50:06.680 -> 50:12.440] felt resentment, a lot of them felt angry. So they ended up being more vulnerable to
[50:12.440 -> 50:19.160] indoctrination and subscribed. If we're talking about the subscription, exclusion
[50:19.160 -> 50:33.200] is what will cause a person to subscribe to a way of being that is technically not with the direction of the mainstream or even seen as something that is pleasant.
[50:33.200 -> 50:40.600] You know, because they genuinely feel as if they have been excluded from the option that is available to everyone else.
[50:40.600 -> 50:46.240] You know, so for me, it's around an inclusion that needs to happen across the
[50:46.240 -> 50:52.520] board, you know, and that's not just in terms of what region or socio-economic situation
[50:52.520 -> 51:00.200] or race or gender or disability. I'm diagnosed, NHS, with a disability, you know, I'm heavily
[51:00.200 -> 51:08.100] dyspraxic. I mean, I have to put my finger down in a certain way to be able to like not drop and crack the glass,
[51:08.100 -> 51:10.560] just put it on the table, you know, but most, you know,
[51:10.560 -> 51:13.600] so I mean, like diversity exists.
[51:13.600 -> 51:16.840] I just feel as if it needs to be acknowledged
[51:16.840 -> 51:18.840] that there is a case to diversify,
[51:18.840 -> 51:20.600] which is not only economic,
[51:20.600 -> 51:23.760] but for the embattlement of like basically doing away
[51:23.760 -> 51:28.640] with some of these sub pockets in our society, you know. So for me it would be an overall kind of
[51:28.640 -> 51:33.420] message of collective like effort towards a collective destiny that which
[51:33.420 -> 51:36.760] means that all should be allowed to partake in the collective.
[51:36.760 -> 51:41.080] There's not one bit of that I disagree with. I like the point you were making
[51:41.080 -> 51:47.820] earlier about the dehumanization of people. Yeah, they them Yeah creates division because you don't see them as the same
[51:48.240 -> 51:53.960] For no one listening to this though that that because there's so many things that relate to not just society to culture
[51:54.140 -> 51:56.820] to relationships in a classroom or wherever
[51:57.400 -> 52:01.060] What's the one thing that anyone listening to this car can do?
[52:01.600 -> 52:06.240] To take that first step towards the kind of society that you
[52:06.240 -> 52:15.240] described. Yeah I mean it is by I mean the the quote will have to be it. The
[52:15.240 -> 52:21.840] quote is the answer honestly. Empathy not opinion. It's the highest like when I
[52:21.840 -> 52:26.060] heard that that struck like I'm like, blimmin' heck,
[52:26.060 -> 52:28.300] because what happens is that people don't realize
[52:28.300 -> 52:31.400] the other exists no matter what your lens is.
[52:31.400 -> 52:36.400] So for me, initially, the other was those from uptown.
[52:37.080 -> 52:41.280] I was like, I only went, I went uptown on a mercenary mission
[52:41.280 -> 52:43.560] to bring resources downtown.
[52:43.560 -> 52:45.400] I went there expecting to meet people with
[52:45.400 -> 52:50.320] webbed feet, bleed purple, that literally like that was what I was going into
[52:50.320 -> 52:56.440] alien territory. It's definitely them and I went in there with that opinion so
[52:56.440 -> 52:59.640] everything I'm seeing I'm kind of picking up you know when you buy the car
[52:59.640 -> 53:03.320] and now you see that car everywhere I mean it's my bias mark you know all of these
[53:03.320 -> 53:05.580] things that's just in operation.
[53:05.580 -> 53:09.240] So as a result, it just continued to kind of drive a wedge
[53:09.240 -> 53:13.280] until I had a real human connection
[53:13.280 -> 53:15.400] with someone from uptown.
[53:15.400 -> 53:17.160] And I'm like, you guys are human.
[53:18.960 -> 53:20.920] Regardless of whether I'm listening to X
[53:20.920 -> 53:24.440] and you're listening to Y, in terms of song choice,
[53:24.440 -> 53:25.520] you're human.
[53:25.520 -> 53:27.440] Like I might spend my Saturday here,
[53:27.440 -> 53:29.120] you spend your Saturday there,
[53:29.120 -> 53:31.480] but we all are spending our Saturday
[53:31.480 -> 53:33.240] like here on God's green earth,
[53:33.240 -> 53:34.720] cause we are human.
[53:34.720 -> 53:37.800] And when I really, really got that,
[53:37.800 -> 53:39.400] I was able to move in that.
[53:39.400 -> 53:40.400] And by moving in that,
[53:40.400 -> 53:42.640] that's what actually got me really well,
[53:42.640 -> 53:43.960] like kind of raptured.
[53:43.960 -> 53:49.640] I always describe it as being raptured into the 0.01% of London. But it weren't a complete rapture. It was
[53:49.640 -> 53:54.600] that same kind of like human connection, love ticket, where I'm like, all right, you're
[53:54.600 -> 54:00.680] a person, I see you, you see me and we're seen. And if everyone does that, like, some
[54:00.680 -> 54:07.320] people are able to do it on a micro level, some on a macro. It all depends on what your station and status is.
[54:07.320 -> 54:09.800] And ultimately, I don't even believe in micro and macro
[54:09.800 -> 54:11.800] because I'm a firm believer in the chaos theory
[54:11.800 -> 54:12.960] and butterfly effect,
[54:12.960 -> 54:15.320] and that small things can have great ramifications.
[54:15.320 -> 54:17.200] So ultimately, you don't even know
[54:17.200 -> 54:19.360] who is gonna receive that message,
[54:19.360 -> 54:20.600] who they're gonna go on to become,
[54:20.600 -> 54:22.440] how it's gonna affect someone's day.
[54:22.440 -> 54:26.720] So I feel like if we all genuinely move away from opinion
[54:26.720 -> 54:29.240] and move closer to empathy in terms of,
[54:29.240 -> 54:31.720] and then we actually start to think, you know,
[54:31.720 -> 54:33.480] cause the other stuff ain't thinking, you know,
[54:33.480 -> 54:35.780] and it's easy to judge and hold an opinion
[54:35.780 -> 54:37.280] that you know nothing on.
[54:37.280 -> 54:39.000] And then it comes down to action as well.
[54:39.000 -> 54:39.840] Yeah.
[54:39.840 -> 54:41.560] So as we sit here talking today,
[54:41.560 -> 54:42.640] you're a father,
[54:42.640 -> 54:44.600] we'll talk about your business interests in a minute.
[54:44.600 -> 54:50.920] Yeah. Are you now Pastor Mimi for other people who are in a place where you once were, bearing
[54:50.920 -> 54:55.400] in mind you have all the empathy in the world with the story and the situation that they're
[54:55.400 -> 55:02.480] in? Yeah, I feel like at one point, I'm constantly reiterating like everyone else, you know,
[55:02.480 -> 55:06.200] so like I think I mentioned, I said, I'm like, what, Karl Lagerfeld 4.0?
[55:06.200 -> 55:09.440] If I'm being honest, probably 6.0 now, you know?
[55:09.440 -> 55:11.760] So like, for me, it's,
[55:13.520 -> 55:16.840] I am presenting, I am that to someone else
[55:16.840 -> 55:18.920] in a certain way, but then I'm like,
[55:18.920 -> 55:22.120] even maybe that's not enough because I'm like,
[55:22.120 -> 55:23.880] they need to see something else.
[55:23.880 -> 55:25.620] And that's why I'm now making
[55:25.620 -> 55:30.820] sure I embody certain elements that they can draw inspiration from ultimately. My whole
[55:30.820 -> 55:31.980] game is about mobilisation.
[55:31.980 -> 55:36.300] Talk to us about that because it comes back to this great phrase, if you can see it, then
[55:36.300 -> 55:37.300] you can be it.
[55:37.300 -> 55:38.300] Yeah, absolutely.
[55:38.300 -> 55:40.180] So what do you want to be seen as today?
[55:40.180 -> 55:47.600] I want to be seen as able. It sounds like, but able to do that. For example, there's
[55:47.600 -> 55:54.880] particular industries that they say that someone who's maybe melanated or darker skinned can
[55:54.880 -> 56:03.640] enter and thrive in. I am able to do whatever industry, like I have a passion for, a desire
[56:03.640 -> 56:06.040] or like I can gain the insights for I can
[56:06.040 -> 56:12.200] go there, you know, like, so even in my current industry, which is venture capitalism, a big
[56:12.200 -> 56:17.560] thing is because there's no other first time fund managers that look like me in terms of
[56:17.560 -> 56:22.080] like, or like literally have some that look like me, but not really, they make me, I can
[56:22.080 -> 56:29.560] count them on one hand, you know, in the entire United Kingdom, you know, and then maybe in terms of having the feces that we
[56:29.560 -> 56:34.520] have, there's none other. Like, so for me, I just like to trespass that, you know, I'm
[56:34.520 -> 56:36.440] like, yeah, we are just, yeah, I am able to.
[56:36.440 -> 56:38.760] Do you still feel like you're trespassing in that world?
[56:38.760 -> 56:45.800] Um, yeah, absolutely. I am definitely, um, considered by some when I enter other, you know, because
[56:45.800 -> 56:51.720] I didn't go like, come on, like the majority of venture capital funding goes to like 80%
[56:51.720 -> 56:56.600] or so goes to on 1% of the country, which is Oxbridge graduates. You know, I'm not an
[56:56.600 -> 57:01.600] Oxbridge graduate, you know, so definitely there is a level of like trespassing for sure,
[57:01.600 -> 57:02.600] for sure.
[57:02.600 -> 57:03.600] Yeah.
[57:03.600 -> 57:06.080] Which in 2022 feels like a madness, you know,
[57:06.080 -> 57:07.040] like we're all parents.
[57:07.040 -> 57:09.200] I mean, you've got a three-year-old now, haven't you?
[57:09.200 -> 57:10.760] And if there's one thing we want,
[57:10.760 -> 57:12.120] we just want equality, right?
[57:12.120 -> 57:12.960] Absolutely.
[57:12.960 -> 57:15.760] We want our kids to just grow up with every possibility
[57:15.760 -> 57:18.400] that every other young child has.
[57:19.960 -> 57:22.440] You've spoken about Brixton becoming
[57:22.440 -> 57:24.320] sort of the black Silicon Valley, is that right?
[57:24.320 -> 57:27.160] Yeah. Just tell us what you want not to do for young people
[57:27.160 -> 57:29.080] Like here's a question, right?
[57:29.080 -> 57:34.320] You're an all-in kind of person, right? So you were all into school all into gang culture all into getting out now
[57:34.320 -> 57:36.280] You're all into business. Yeah
[57:36.280 -> 57:43.000] What is your dream for Brixton in 10 years time from now? Yeah, Brixton is actually a great case study
[57:43.640 -> 57:47.560] Yeah Brixton is actually a great case study. Yeah, Brixton is almost the
[57:47.560 -> 57:52.740] kind of like, it can be sad but it's not sad because we're gonna control the
[57:52.740 -> 57:58.120] narrative and it won't be a sad story but it's like it's prime for it, yeah. It
[57:58.120 -> 58:02.520] had what we would call huge Afro-Caribbean ley lines and still does,
[58:02.520 -> 58:05.400] you know, of which you you know, there's certain
[58:05.400 -> 58:09.880] sayings if there's blood on the ground, you buy that, you know, and essentially we kind
[58:09.880 -> 58:14.640] of know then the creatives move in because it's edgy and then this group moves in and
[58:14.640 -> 58:19.680] then the, I don't know, the yuppies move in because it's, you know, and then now the Starbucks
[58:19.680 -> 58:23.500] and then we can kind of see the engineering of sorts. And for me, there's nothing wrong
[58:23.500 -> 58:29.100] with that as long as people aren't displaced in the process but currently there is
[58:29.100 -> 58:33.520] still because we're going by a certain approach there are people being
[58:33.520 -> 58:38.560] displaced you know and it's happening implicitly and explicitly yeah. In what
[58:38.560 -> 58:43.540] way? I mean the prices more disposable income moves into the area more people
[58:43.540 -> 58:45.760] will kind of increase the prices of what it is,
[58:45.760 -> 58:48.360] what was considered, I don't know, to be a no-go area
[58:48.360 -> 58:49.880] is now prime real estate.
[58:49.880 -> 58:52.160] You know, you get foreign kind of like, I don't know,
[58:52.160 -> 58:55.600] buyers from, I don't know, China or Emirates
[58:55.600 -> 58:57.680] has never seen or stepped foot into the area
[58:57.680 -> 59:00.040] and they own the building essentially, you know?
[59:00.040 -> 59:02.840] So like, and then they say there's a quote or a 5%
[59:02.840 -> 59:04.440] that they must give to affordable housing,
[59:04.440 -> 59:08.040] but who technically sees and knows if it is, you know?
[59:08.040 -> 59:11.200] However, for me, I just believe
[59:11.200 -> 59:13.680] in the intersectionality of life.
[59:13.680 -> 59:17.840] I genuinely believe that you can have an assortment
[59:17.840 -> 59:21.440] and you can create something that is harmonic.
[59:21.440 -> 59:27.600] Like I've seen it, like I felt super displaced in certain situations and scenarios,
[59:27.600 -> 59:33.760] but I realized that by actually being there, like I was able to create more because it
[59:33.760 -> 59:39.000] was a blend in, you know, there is more, there's a fabric, there's a texture that comes when
[59:39.000 -> 59:46.960] maybe even seemingly opposites blend and come and collaborate, you know? So for me, it's like, how do we make sure
[59:46.960 -> 59:50.840] that the new kind of found footfall
[59:50.840 -> 59:54.420] and all the rest of it serves those who kind of helped
[59:54.420 -> 59:58.680] to give it its initial kind of like brand, you know?
[59:58.680 -> 01:00:00.000] How do we honor that?
[01:00:00.000 -> 01:00:02.360] And for me, working with one of the most significant
[01:00:02.360 -> 01:00:06.400] landlords in the area, who owns Brixton Village and Market Row,
[01:00:06.400 -> 01:00:09.800] he has some development plans of which he has like,
[01:00:09.800 -> 01:00:13.320] given me, like he gave me his ear, essentially.
[01:00:13.320 -> 01:00:15.440] And I was able to kind of like share with him
[01:00:15.440 -> 01:00:17.760] these certain plans to make it a house,
[01:00:17.760 -> 01:00:21.040] the first black entrepreneurial ecosystem in the UK.
[01:00:21.040 -> 01:00:24.040] You know, 88% of black businesses are self-funded,
[01:00:24.040 -> 01:00:25.180] should never be the case.
[01:00:25.180 -> 01:00:30.180] OPM is almost a non-existent kind of like entity
[01:00:30.620 -> 01:00:32.820] in the black kind of entrepreneurial community.
[01:00:32.820 -> 01:00:35.780] No one knows that you have any access to any money.
[01:00:35.780 -> 01:00:38.420] And even if you do approach those that have access to money
[01:00:38.420 -> 01:00:40.620] like my co-founder, now co-founder,
[01:00:40.620 -> 01:00:43.140] did previously before starting the business with me,
[01:00:43.140 -> 01:00:45.280] he had taken part in 10 of the country's 10
[01:00:45.280 -> 01:00:48.800] on top accelerator programs, pitched to over a hundred VCs
[01:00:48.800 -> 01:00:50.560] and wasn't able to raise a penny.
[01:00:50.560 -> 01:00:53.560] He owned the patents, had the partnerships in the video.
[01:00:53.560 -> 01:00:56.680] It was his third startups, had the NHS on the line
[01:00:56.680 -> 01:00:57.520] as a client.
[01:00:57.520 -> 01:00:59.720] It was a tele-diagnostic to be a tech timely
[01:00:59.720 -> 01:01:01.080] with the pandemic backdrop.
[01:01:01.080 -> 01:01:03.400] I mean, everything, he was a dream
[01:01:03.400 -> 01:01:05.320] and literally couldn't raise a penny.
[01:01:05.320 -> 01:01:12.380] And why do you think that was? He is mixed race, right? Like with dreads and wasn't born
[01:01:12.380 -> 01:01:18.800] in the UK. Forget about it. That is not like, let's just be honest. Like, you know what
[01:01:18.800 -> 01:01:28.120] I mean? This is not the, even if you are, you come from a part of Europe, I mean, even venture, like the landscape,
[01:01:28.120 -> 01:01:31.160] even coming from Europe is a disability,
[01:01:31.160 -> 01:01:34.800] let alone your parents like came from African descent,
[01:01:34.800 -> 01:01:36.240] get the hell out of here.
[01:01:36.240 -> 01:01:37.640] It ain't happening, you know?
[01:01:37.640 -> 01:01:41.960] So essentially that is why like we had to exist.
[01:01:41.960 -> 01:01:44.040] You know, we are a response ultimately.
[01:01:44.040 -> 01:01:46.760] Like, I mean, it is more likely for a black woman
[01:01:46.760 -> 01:01:48.600] to win the lottery on a Saturday night
[01:01:48.600 -> 01:01:51.320] than to get venture capital funding in the United Kingdom.
[01:01:51.320 -> 01:01:52.160] Is that right?
[01:01:52.160 -> 01:01:53.120] Absolutely.
[01:01:53.120 -> 01:01:53.960] That's horrendous, isn't it?
[01:01:53.960 -> 01:01:55.520] I mean, it's a horror story.
[01:01:55.520 -> 01:01:56.360] Yeah.
[01:01:56.360 -> 01:01:58.760] I mean, that's where social mobility
[01:01:58.760 -> 01:02:00.440] is the, becomes the conversation.
[01:02:00.440 -> 01:02:01.280] Absolutely.
[01:02:01.280 -> 01:02:02.640] And it isn't the conversation.
[01:02:02.640 -> 01:02:03.480] No.
[01:02:03.480 -> 01:02:04.320] You know, that's the issue.
[01:02:04.320 -> 01:02:05.300] What I love about your answer as we sort of come towards the isn't the conversation no, you know, that's the issue what I love about your
[01:02:05.580 -> 01:02:08.860] your answer as we sort of come towards the end of the conversation is that
[01:02:09.820 -> 01:02:13.640] You know, what do you want Brixton to be you want it to be a melting pot of all different?
[01:02:14.260 -> 01:02:19.960] Races cultures the history of the area needs to stay prevalent as well. But that is the absolute antithesis
[01:02:20.620 -> 01:02:26.120] Of being in a gang. Yeah one versus another us versus you my group versus your group
[01:02:26.120 -> 01:02:30.620] Absolutely, and if that doesn't sort of complete this circle, I yeah, I don't know what else does
[01:02:31.680 -> 01:02:37.780] Amazing. I mean what an incredible story and the final thing that I I would be wondering if I was listening to this at home
[01:02:37.780 -> 01:02:38.880] Yeah
[01:02:38.880 -> 01:02:45.560] What regrets it for you? Do you regret the violence? Do you regret the fear, the anger, the sadness,
[01:02:45.560 -> 01:02:51.040] the pain you've caused other families and that other families have caused to you and
[01:02:51.040 -> 01:02:55.500] yours as a parent now? Because I think as soon as your child is born, that's when you
[01:02:55.500 -> 01:03:02.360] feel true love. I agree. Now you imagine your mom seeing you go through everything. I mean,
[01:03:02.360 -> 01:03:07.780] regret is an understatement. Like I think it brings me deep spiritual pain
[01:03:07.780 -> 01:03:11.420] that I feel like I probably navigate on a day to day.
[01:03:13.660 -> 01:03:15.160] Like the moment, I always describe it
[01:03:15.160 -> 01:03:18.220] as when I've seen my son's name's Lion, yeah?
[01:03:18.220 -> 01:03:20.780] That's the moment I saw Lion's, like,
[01:03:20.780 -> 01:03:23.840] just his naked bum in that hospital room.
[01:03:23.840 -> 01:03:26.120] And I just saw him and I'm like,
[01:03:26.120 -> 01:03:30.960] life is about making life better for you.
[01:03:30.960 -> 01:03:35.320] And when I said you, I meant it as a collective.
[01:03:35.320 -> 01:03:37.960] I mean, like you that are coming after,
[01:03:37.960 -> 01:03:39.360] leave the world in a better way
[01:03:39.360 -> 01:03:41.760] than it was for the posterity, you know?
[01:03:41.760 -> 01:03:44.400] So, I mean, definitely in terms,
[01:03:44.400 -> 01:03:45.280] I agree in terms of
[01:03:45.280 -> 01:03:50.160] the love statement and acknowledging and embracing and seeing love in a real way.
[01:03:50.160 -> 01:03:58.120] However in terms of the regret, like I definitely navigate it on a spiritual
[01:03:58.120 -> 01:04:05.000] level quite deeply. I have regret but I also have an awareness
[01:04:06.920 -> 01:04:10.880] that nothing happens to me, but for me, you know?
[01:04:10.880 -> 01:04:15.400] So, I mean, there's a lot that I would have wanted
[01:04:15.400 -> 01:04:17.640] to have been different,
[01:04:17.640 -> 01:04:19.480] but essentially if it hadn't been different,
[01:04:19.480 -> 01:04:21.800] I might not be in this situation,
[01:04:21.800 -> 01:04:23.520] affording me to be able to share,
[01:04:23.520 -> 01:04:26.660] even like today as candidly, you know,
[01:04:26.660 -> 01:04:30.200] to like such an audience, you know.
[01:04:30.200 -> 01:04:35.140] So it's like, absolutely, like live with regret,
[01:04:35.140 -> 01:04:36.740] definitely have many regrets,
[01:04:36.740 -> 01:04:40.020] wish it could have gone a million different ways, you know,
[01:04:40.020 -> 01:04:42.540] but I mean, still very much grateful
[01:04:43.420 -> 01:04:46.640] for what the future can potentially present.
[01:04:46.640 -> 01:04:47.640] Amazing.
[01:04:47.640 -> 01:04:49.000] We always end our interviews
[01:04:49.000 -> 01:04:51.520] with just a few quick fire questions.
[01:04:51.520 -> 01:04:53.980] The first one here is the three non-negotiable behaviors
[01:04:53.980 -> 01:04:57.160] that you and the people around you need to buy into.
[01:04:58.480 -> 01:05:01.200] I've got one of my colleagues in the room
[01:05:01.200 -> 01:05:02.600] so I might as well not lie
[01:05:02.600 -> 01:05:04.920] because they'll go back and they won't respect me.
[01:05:04.920 -> 01:05:08.640] I say every day when we go into like, I've kind of toned it down because I've
[01:05:08.640 -> 01:05:13.040] broken record, but I say everyone must conduct themselves as old, rich white men.
[01:05:14.720 -> 01:05:19.440] Every response we have, every action we make, every dream we're dreaming,
[01:05:19.440 -> 01:05:23.360] old, rich white, I mean, complete privilege. You should move like you have.
[01:05:23.360 -> 01:05:24.880] Jason Valee That in itself,
[01:05:26.680 -> 01:05:27.640] because that's not you. You're not an old rich white man.
[01:05:27.640 -> 01:05:28.840] I'm not an old rich white man.
[01:05:28.840 -> 01:05:31.600] But you have to be that to get where you need to get to.
[01:05:31.600 -> 01:05:34.840] That in itself is an indictment of this society.
[01:05:34.840 -> 01:05:36.040] It's quite heavy.
[01:05:36.040 -> 01:05:37.560] Nani is saying it.
[01:05:37.560 -> 01:05:39.160] It sounds different when you say it out loud
[01:05:39.160 -> 01:05:40.240] in a different context.
[01:05:40.240 -> 01:05:41.800] But I mean, like, I literally,
[01:05:41.800 -> 01:05:43.720] and I don't mean it in a way that they should like,
[01:05:43.720 -> 01:05:45.480] maybe code switch, but there's a like I literally, and I don't mean it in a way that they should like, maybe cold switch,
[01:05:45.480 -> 01:05:48.360] but there's a certain level of,
[01:05:48.360 -> 01:05:50.300] know that you're entitled to it.
[01:05:50.300 -> 01:05:53.540] Have a certain audacity, don't shrink, you know,
[01:05:53.540 -> 01:05:57.700] like come across to your own visions and the desire
[01:05:57.700 -> 01:06:00.460] and what we're building here as an old rich white man.
[01:06:00.460 -> 01:06:01.960] Yeah, so that's one.
[01:06:01.960 -> 01:06:04.100] Fingertail, don't start close to me.
[01:06:04.100 -> 01:06:06.120] I mean, I say it now, I used to be really good at it.
[01:06:06.120 -> 01:06:08.600] I'm not so good at it anymore.
[01:06:08.600 -> 01:06:10.640] Self-talk is self-love.
[01:06:10.640 -> 01:06:12.800] So good self-talk, you know?
[01:06:12.800 -> 01:06:14.520] So like, I used to always like,
[01:06:14.520 -> 01:06:16.840] if I would catch like someone saying something about them,
[01:06:16.840 -> 01:06:18.340] I'm like, that doesn't make sense.
[01:06:18.340 -> 01:06:20.000] Like cut that out, let's nip that.
[01:06:20.000 -> 01:06:21.360] And they'll be like, oh, it's harmless.
[01:06:21.360 -> 01:06:23.160] I'm like, no, that's very harmful.
[01:06:23.160 -> 01:06:25.800] So that's one bit that's a non-negotiable.
[01:06:25.800 -> 01:06:29.320] And then also I would say anything that they say
[01:06:29.320 -> 01:06:33.280] that they can't do, I'd just be like, it's available.
[01:06:33.280 -> 01:06:36.040] It's usually my answer, you know, that it is available.
[01:06:36.040 -> 01:06:37.320] You know, it might take a bit more
[01:06:37.320 -> 01:06:40.480] depending on the compounded disadvantage, you know,
[01:06:40.480 -> 01:06:42.120] it might take a bit more maneuvering,
[01:06:42.120 -> 01:06:43.800] but it's still available, you know,
[01:06:43.800 -> 01:06:49.180] so with enough hustle, you can get there. So yeah, those are the three if you could go back to one moment in your life
[01:06:49.200 -> 01:06:52.380] What would it be and why I would say the birth of my son?
[01:06:53.360 -> 01:06:55.360] Yeah, seeing him
[01:06:55.640 -> 01:06:59.200] Did a lot. I don't even think I can really
[01:07:00.400 -> 01:07:01.480] I
[01:07:01.480 -> 01:07:11.200] Don't think it's quantifiable almost as to what it actually did, but like it did a lot, it changed my complete trajectory.
[01:07:11.560 -> 01:07:15.520] And that was in terms of what I was going to present and contribute to the world.
[01:07:15.880 -> 01:07:23.680] I feel like the biggest kind of influence on why I am contributing in this way today,
[01:07:24.080 -> 01:07:26.040] why I am contributing in this way today, in terms of like the vehicles I'm using
[01:07:26.040 -> 01:07:31.040] and the industry I'm in is because I saw lying in that room.
[01:07:31.280 -> 01:07:33.320] What does your spirituality do for you?
[01:07:33.320 -> 01:07:38.320] It has granted me an ability to forgive,
[01:07:40.040 -> 01:07:44.520] which is huge, to also acknowledge
[01:07:44.520 -> 01:07:46.800] that I am worthy of forgiveness.
[01:07:46.800 -> 01:07:53.040] And it allows me to operate with a metaphysical edge.
[01:07:53.040 -> 01:07:57.640] I believe heavy in manifesting.
[01:07:57.640 -> 01:08:04.640] Like I do like shopping carts, you know, so it allows me to be moved by
[01:08:04.640 -> 01:08:05.000] not what I see, not what I see,
[01:08:05.760 -> 01:08:08.440] but what I see, essentially.
[01:08:08.440 -> 01:08:10.800] How important is legacy to you?
[01:08:10.800 -> 01:08:11.680] Everything.
[01:08:11.680 -> 01:08:14.080] I mean, my ex-wife won't mind me saying this now.
[01:08:14.080 -> 01:08:16.600] That's why I'm not with my ex-wife.
[01:08:16.600 -> 01:08:18.280] It's literally legacy.
[01:08:18.280 -> 01:08:19.680] It means everything to me.
[01:08:19.680 -> 01:08:20.720] Why are you not with her?
[01:08:20.720 -> 01:08:21.560] Because of legacy?
[01:08:21.560 -> 01:08:23.480] I mean, that's a longer,
[01:08:23.480 -> 01:08:28.640] we're going to need the whole next. You can't give us that little bit and nothing else.
[01:08:28.640 -> 01:08:38.240] You know, it's just the fact that I take huge pride and I believe life is about productivity.
[01:08:38.240 -> 01:08:45.940] That is what genuinely motivates me over connectivity. So I believe that
[01:08:43.540 -> 01:08:48.160] connectivity is a thing also, but
[01:08:45.940 -> 01:08:51.160] productivity for me on a personal level
[01:08:48.160 -> 01:08:53.400] is huge. To be able to... Explain the difference between
[01:08:51.160 -> 01:08:56.500] productivity and connectivity. So in my
[01:08:53.400 -> 01:09:00.040] definition of productivity is like being
[01:08:56.500 -> 01:09:03.320] able to, like on a Plato level, like
[01:09:00.040 -> 01:09:06.360] ideas, yeah? Being able to execute and realize ideas. That's productivity.
[01:09:06.360 -> 01:09:15.560] Connectivity is more around not creating ideas but settling with the idea of
[01:09:15.560 -> 01:09:21.240] who someone else is, you know, and having that kind of exchange, you know?
[01:09:21.240 -> 01:09:28.880] So I'd rather interact with development, you know, on some level. So in
[01:09:28.880 -> 01:09:34.400] the, in the, I mean, short way of it, I'm a workaholic. I would prefer that I got extreme
[01:09:34.400 -> 01:09:41.360] tunnel vision, you know, so those things aren't always like the greatest thing for romantic
[01:09:41.360 -> 01:09:45.060] relationships, you know, so yeah.
[01:09:47.460 -> 01:09:48.500] That's a very long way of explaining it. Well, you ended up with a baby,
[01:09:48.500 -> 01:09:50.000] so there must've been a period.
[01:09:51.440 -> 01:09:54.300] Final question, and this is kind of your one last message
[01:09:54.300 -> 01:09:56.840] to everyone that's listened to this podcast.
[01:09:57.840 -> 01:10:00.020] What would you, what's the final thing
[01:10:00.020 -> 01:10:01.440] you'd like to leave them with?
[01:10:01.440 -> 01:10:04.140] Your one golden rule to living
[01:10:04.140 -> 01:10:06.440] their own high-performance life? Do you know what, leave them with, your one golden rule to living their own high performance life?
[01:10:06.440 -> 01:10:07.880] Do you know what, I actually heard it
[01:10:07.880 -> 01:10:12.240] from one of my LPs recently, actually.
[01:10:12.240 -> 01:10:16.240] We've been very fortunate to have like world class LPs,
[01:10:16.240 -> 01:10:19.240] yeah, and this guy's a part of one of the,
[01:10:19.240 -> 01:10:21.480] he's in the mix, yeah?
[01:10:21.480 -> 01:10:27.120] But he doesn't fit the archetype slightly, Chinese guy, like just kind of like,
[01:10:27.120 -> 01:10:32.080] it's got a different approach to it, but he knows his stuff, yeah? And I told him about
[01:10:32.080 -> 01:10:36.880] the grand vision that we have for Brixton, creating those grooves we've already began,
[01:10:36.880 -> 01:10:41.840] you know, we do activations with the likes of DeepMind and Google, just kind of give
[01:10:41.840 -> 01:10:46.480] it that kind of fingerprint. And I told him about basically the five,
[01:10:46.480 -> 01:10:48.360] 10 year commitment to this.
[01:10:48.360 -> 01:10:49.720] And he was just like, yeah, no,
[01:10:49.720 -> 01:10:52.000] that five year plan is brilliant.
[01:10:52.000 -> 01:10:53.800] All the advice I would say is figure out
[01:10:53.800 -> 01:10:55.960] how to do it in six months.
[01:10:55.960 -> 01:11:00.960] And that did really challenge me, you know,
[01:11:01.720 -> 01:11:12.760] and got certain bits in me firing. And then my brain started to kind of look for ways where that can be achieved and I realized that that kind of venture approach
[01:11:13.680 -> 01:11:16.280] Yeah is what I did on a personal level
[01:11:17.120 -> 01:11:21.100] Years ago. My whole thing was how can I make?
[01:11:21.720 -> 01:11:28.040] One year look like five and I got obsessed with one year looking at what does even five years look like?
[01:11:28.040 -> 01:11:29.360] I don't know
[01:11:29.360 -> 01:11:31.360] whatever in my mind was
[01:11:32.680 -> 01:11:39.720] Satisfactory for five-year kind of like progression. I was not satisfied unless it was done in one, you know
[01:11:39.720 -> 01:11:45.400] So, um, I don't know if that answers the question, but yeah. Get it done. Yeah, get it done.
[01:11:45.400 -> 01:11:46.240] Amazing.
[01:11:46.240 -> 01:11:48.480] Carl, thank you so much for that hour and a bit
[01:11:48.480 -> 01:11:51.400] to delve into the story that you've shared with us
[01:11:51.400 -> 01:11:53.880] and so many takeaways and so many lessons
[01:11:53.880 -> 01:11:56.060] for so many people with interestingly,
[01:11:56.060 -> 01:11:59.320] love being the recurring theme from start to finish.
[01:11:59.320 -> 01:12:04.320] Damien, Jake, you know, like we see all the time on the news
[01:12:08.040 -> 01:12:12.640] don't we, about, you know like we see all the time on the news don't we about you know a gang member's been shot you know someone's been killed in gang violence
[01:12:12.640 -> 01:12:17.640] in a big city somewhere we're almost desensitized now to that conversation
[01:12:17.640 -> 01:12:22.960] about gang culture and gang violence so a conversation like this kind of
[01:12:22.960 -> 01:12:27.200] challenges us to totally reframe a gang member and a
[01:12:27.200 -> 01:12:33.280] gang member story and the thing that took them into that gang in the first place.
[01:12:33.280 -> 01:12:37.040] It's going to definitely challenge some people and some people won't still be listening now
[01:12:37.040 -> 01:12:40.000] because they won't have wanted to continue with that episode.
[01:12:40.000 -> 01:13:26.880] But I think if people did, then they would have realized the real rich understanding ond rwy'n credu os oedd pobl wedi, y byddai wedi sylwi'r dealltwriaeth a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r cerddorau a'r perspectif unigol, i weld y texture, i weld ei bod o ffamilie ddarlith, o rai o'r rhain o'r rhain o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o'r rhai o' Many of us in our lives take for granted. What was the sort of standout moment for you? I think it was his point around
[01:13:27.720 -> 01:13:30.280] Rich old white men and having to act like that
[01:13:30.280 -> 01:13:32.800] I mean I laughed at it when he first said it
[01:13:32.800 -> 01:13:39.160] But as he found it really sad that he would feel that that's how he sees the people that hold the power in our
[01:13:39.840 -> 01:13:42.460] society absolutely like but also there's
[01:13:42.840 -> 01:13:46.500] There's also a real empowerment for him to kind of like taking that back and going
[01:13:46.500 -> 01:13:51.320] Do you know what if that's what we need to imagine ourselves as that's what we will imagine and then we will be successful
[01:13:51.540 -> 01:13:58.160] Because of that I think that yeah to own that is really powerful for me. But for me, it was the fact that light and
[01:13:59.000 -> 01:14:03.040] Still can't quite get my head around that love took him to the top of that gang
[01:14:03.480 -> 01:14:07.700] Yeah, love took him out of the gang You know love is what's taking him to where he is now.
[01:14:07.700 -> 01:14:10.920] If you'd have said to me before this conversation, how do you become the
[01:14:10.920 -> 01:14:13.940] number one gang leader in Brixton? I'd have been like, I don't know, violence,
[01:14:13.940 -> 01:14:20.520] aggression, hunger, hatred. And the answer's love. Yeah, I think that taps into, like,
[01:14:20.520 -> 01:14:25.000] there's the work of a famous psychiatristfamos, John Bowlby,
[01:14:25.000 -> 01:14:28.000] sydd â'r ddewis o ddewis ymddangos,
[01:14:28.000 -> 01:14:31.000] y bydd mwyaf o ein cysylltiadau mewn bywyd yn cael eu ffynediad o'r âeaf tri,
[01:14:31.000 -> 01:14:34.000] ond mae'n angen dynol iawn i ni.
[01:14:34.000 -> 01:14:36.000] Mae angen i ni ddod o'n rhan o rywbeth.
[01:14:36.000 -> 01:14:38.000] Felly, pan fyddwch chi'n teimlo'n isel,
[01:14:38.000 -> 01:14:40.000] neu ar y ffyngellau o gymdeithas,
[01:14:40.000 -> 01:14:42.000] byddwch chi'n edrych ar ddau arall,
[01:14:42.000 -> 01:14:44.000] fel y dywedwch chi.
[01:14:44.000 -> 01:14:45.960] Dyma sut mae'r holl ffyrdd o'r terfyrwyr fel eich hun, mae'n ymwneud â phob ffordd o dderbyniwyr
[01:14:45.960 -> 01:14:47.480] sy'n cael eu hymwysgu wrth i chi ddysgu
[01:14:47.480 -> 01:14:49.880] rhai o'r llyfrgell ar hynny.
[01:14:49.880 -> 01:14:51.520] Ac rwy'n credu bod y pwynt Carl
[01:14:51.520 -> 01:14:53.480] yn dechrau clywed yn ddweud hynny
[01:14:53.480 -> 01:14:55.080] mewn ffordd o rhoi sylw i bobl
[01:14:55.080 -> 01:14:56.400] ystod o ddewis,
[01:14:56.400 -> 01:14:58.480] lle maen nhw'n teimlo eu bod yn cael eu cydnabod,
[01:14:58.480 -> 01:15:00.640] yw rhywbeth sy'n rhaid i ni i gyd
[01:15:00.640 -> 01:15:01.840] sefyll ac ymdrechu
[01:15:01.840 -> 01:15:03.640] wrth i grwpiau sy'n deimlo
[01:15:03.640 -> 01:15:09.360] neu'n dehumaniseu. Yr do is we force them to become a collective.
[01:15:09.360 -> 01:15:14.840] Lots of lessons for everybody. Yeah, massive. I thought it was amazing.
[01:15:14.840 -> 01:15:19.000] And it's now time for, well, probably my favourite part of the podcast actually, where we get
[01:15:19.000 -> 01:15:23.880] to actually speak to people who've been impacted by high performance. And before we speak to
[01:15:23.880 -> 01:15:25.280] our guests for this week,
[01:15:25.280 -> 01:15:30.480] can I just say if you or someone you know has really found either a benefit or a serious bit
[01:15:30.480 -> 01:15:34.400] of learning or a mindset change from listening to this podcast, it would be really cool for you just
[01:15:34.400 -> 01:15:40.000] to ping us a message. Damien is at Liquid Thinker, I'm at Jake Humphrey or the podcast is at High
[01:15:40.000 -> 01:15:46.620] Performance on Instagram. Send us a message, tell us why you'd like to feature on the podcast and we may well pick up the phone
[01:15:46.620 -> 01:15:49.840] or ping you a message back and invite you on
[01:15:49.840 -> 01:15:52.940] as we have done to Celeste who joins us this week.
[01:15:52.940 -> 01:15:54.000] Celeste, hi.
[01:15:54.000 -> 01:15:55.600] Hi, thank you for having me on.
[01:15:55.600 -> 01:15:57.040] Thank you very much for being with us.
[01:15:57.040 -> 01:16:00.300] Well, look, sometimes I sort of read out the message
[01:16:00.300 -> 01:16:01.700] that we've received on Instagram,
[01:16:01.700 -> 01:16:03.600] but actually I think it's way more authentic for you,
[01:16:03.600 -> 01:16:05.380] perhaps just to share with us
[01:16:05.380 -> 01:16:08.120] why you decided to reach out to High Performance
[01:16:08.120 -> 01:16:09.540] and what the podcast has done for you.
[01:16:09.540 -> 01:16:11.520] So the floor is yours.
[01:16:11.520 -> 01:16:12.460] Thanks so much.
[01:16:12.460 -> 01:16:15.540] I just, first of all, love that I'm listening to a podcast
[01:16:15.540 -> 01:16:18.100] and every week I'm feeling sort of infused
[01:16:18.100 -> 01:16:20.220] that someone's saying, you know,
[01:16:20.220 -> 01:16:23.020] teachers are listening and they're taking on these messages
[01:16:23.020 -> 01:16:24.700] and they're sharing them with their students
[01:16:24.700 -> 01:16:26.880] and implementing messages within their
[01:16:26.880 -> 01:16:31.160] classrooms. And so for me it was more just like, you know what, I just want to
[01:16:31.160 -> 01:16:36.360] say thank you, but I just massively believe in promoting health and optimal
[01:16:36.360 -> 01:16:41.680] living and well-being to everyone, whether that is like other teachers or
[01:16:41.680 -> 01:16:45.840] young people. Brilliant, I know you've nipped out of your lesson now to do this.
[01:16:45.840 -> 01:16:47.160] So thanks very much to you.
[01:16:47.160 -> 01:16:48.440] And let's talk then about school.
[01:16:48.840 -> 01:16:51.000] We do get lots of teachers that listen to this podcast.
[01:16:51.040 -> 01:16:54.720] I'm interested to get your thoughts on why you think it has had such an
[01:16:54.720 -> 01:16:56.080] impact with, with teachers.
[01:16:56.080 -> 01:16:56.640] What do you reckon?
[01:16:57.040 -> 01:17:00.720] I think it's sort of like lots of micro messages.
[01:17:01.080 -> 01:17:07.880] I think that it's important that we, well, when, when I listened to the podcast, I think one of like the common themes is that all
[01:17:07.880 -> 01:17:09.600] of these really high performing people, you know,
[01:17:09.600 -> 01:17:13.120] I've was listening to one from like NIM Persia, um,
[01:17:13.640 -> 01:17:17.920] Rick Lewis and even the one on the circle with Adrian Herbert.
[01:17:17.920 -> 01:17:19.560] And I'm like all of these successful people,
[01:17:19.580 -> 01:17:23.440] but the message is across the board is the same.
[01:17:23.800 -> 01:17:25.760] Everyone is just human and we're all just
[01:17:25.760 -> 01:17:31.760] working hard and we can just implement these messages day in, day out. My favorite podcast
[01:17:31.760 -> 01:17:39.840] might be the one with Rick Lewis. He talks about just having people to role model behaviors.
[01:17:39.840 -> 01:17:44.480] And I think as a teacher, that's the privilege of being in this position is these young people
[01:17:44.480 -> 01:17:46.440] are around you every single day.
[01:17:46.880 -> 01:17:54.240] And so it's not always like exactly what you say to them, which is changing their lives, but it's just how you, how you are as a human.
[01:17:54.680 -> 01:18:06.480] Part of it for me is like, if I can use some of these tips that I'm getting from like the high performance podcast on myself, hopefully that's like then, you know, relaying into my lessons
[01:18:06.480 -> 01:18:08.760] and that the young people are benefiting as well.
[01:18:08.760 -> 01:18:15.300] So what would you say is the single key takeaway for your own mindset from listening to high
[01:18:15.300 -> 01:18:19.200] performance? What's the one thing that if someone said to you, Hey, high performance,
[01:18:19.200 -> 01:18:21.420] what's it all about? What do you say to them?
[01:18:21.420 -> 01:18:25.620] I would say it's like constantly adding little things to your toolbox.
[01:18:26.900 -> 01:18:31.380] So yeah, every week I just try and take at least one
[01:18:31.380 -> 01:18:35.120] or two things away and I'll add that to my toolbox.
[01:18:35.120 -> 01:18:36.200] And then a lot of it is, you know,
[01:18:36.200 -> 01:18:38.400] to do with sort of good practice.
[01:18:38.400 -> 01:18:40.040] So I think as a monk,
[01:18:40.040 -> 01:18:42.120] I obviously was quite inclined to listen to the ones
[01:18:42.120 -> 01:18:48.380] with like Phil Neville and all of those guys. But you know, the one with Phil Neville, it was yesterday I was on a run
[01:18:48.380 -> 01:18:51.940] and I was listening to it and I was like, you know, he gets up at 5am in the
[01:18:51.940 -> 01:18:55.760] morning to do like his, his routine with his kids.
[01:18:55.760 -> 01:18:57.880] And I was like, that's brilliant.
[01:18:57.940 -> 01:19:01.660] And just like that for me was, you know, just sort of maybe reminding
[01:19:01.660 -> 01:19:05.400] myself of why I do that sort of thing as well and why I have those habits.
[01:19:05.400 -> 01:19:08.960] Brilliant. Have you heard the one with Eddie Jones, the England rugby coach yet?
[01:19:08.960 -> 01:19:10.160] No, not yet.
[01:19:10.160 -> 01:19:14.120] So we talked to him about his routine and he goes, ah, you know, I'm not as driven as
[01:19:14.120 -> 01:19:18.640] I was, you know, I'm pretty chilled now. So normally I'm sort of up at five at work by
[01:19:18.640 -> 01:19:22.660] six in the gym till seven, get all my work done till eight. And then the players come
[01:19:22.660 -> 01:19:28.180] in at nine and my day's done. And I'm like, hold on, that's you in a relaxed frame of mind?
[01:19:28.180 -> 01:19:29.020] What was he like?
[01:19:29.020 -> 01:19:31.060] He had a stroke basically.
[01:19:31.060 -> 01:19:32.580] And that sort of changed the way he operated.
[01:19:32.580 -> 01:19:33.540] But I often think to myself,
[01:19:33.540 -> 01:19:35.280] what was Eddie Jones like 20 years ago?
[01:19:35.280 -> 01:19:36.700] So you'll enjoy that one.
[01:19:36.700 -> 01:19:40.180] Have a listen to Eddie Jones on the podcast as well.
[01:19:40.180 -> 01:19:41.100] Yeah, please do.
[01:19:41.100 -> 01:19:42.100] It's brilliant to hear that.
[01:19:42.100 -> 01:19:47.520] And I think one of the things that I really I'm frustrated with is when people say oh no
[01:19:47.520 -> 01:19:50.040] You know the problem with your podcast is that you know
[01:19:50.040 -> 01:19:53.200] If you're a normal person living a normal life in a normal house doing a normal job
[01:19:53.200 -> 01:19:59.500] How can you be high performance and you've just answered exactly why we can all be high performance because you know to steal another
[01:19:59.560 -> 01:20:03.920] Message from the podcast so Rian McGeehan when he came on and said world-class basics
[01:20:03.920 -> 01:20:09.120] It is about Celeste getting up on time, eating the right breakfast, saying something positive
[01:20:09.120 -> 01:20:13.320] to yourself, spreading a strong message to the people around you that they can achieve
[01:20:13.320 -> 01:20:17.760] anything they want, taking responsibility for your actions and others actions.
[01:20:17.760 -> 01:20:22.800] These aren't only available to CEOs and founders and actors and sports stars.
[01:20:22.800 -> 01:20:26.520] This is there for everyone. And I love talking to teachers
[01:20:26.520 -> 01:20:29.240] because you're basically responsible
[01:20:29.240 -> 01:20:31.000] for taking the messages that we put out there
[01:20:31.000 -> 01:20:33.480] and getting them into the ears and the minds
[01:20:33.480 -> 01:20:35.320] of hundreds of young people.
[01:20:35.320 -> 01:20:37.640] Have you got any advice for other teachers
[01:20:37.640 -> 01:20:39.920] who are thinking, what's the best way
[01:20:39.920 -> 01:20:42.360] to impart this knowledge to my children?
[01:20:42.360 -> 01:20:43.940] What have you done with your classes
[01:20:43.940 -> 01:20:45.600] or with the young people that you've worked with
[01:20:45.600 -> 01:20:48.040] that you found really effective from the podcast?
[01:20:48.040 -> 01:20:51.520] I think the most important thing is just like you said,
[01:20:51.520 -> 01:20:54.080] they're like the basic things matter.
[01:20:54.080 -> 01:20:55.840] So implementing good habits.
[01:20:55.840 -> 01:20:58.160] So it might be one of the things that I do
[01:20:58.160 -> 01:21:00.380] at the end of the majority of my lessons
[01:21:00.380 -> 01:21:02.000] is we have five minutes journal time.
[01:21:02.000 -> 01:21:04.040] And we talk about why,
[01:21:04.040 -> 01:21:07.960] especially in sort of like a digital world, like young people don't really have time to
[01:21:07.960 -> 01:21:11.040] themselves because they wake up in the morning and then they're like
[01:21:11.040 -> 01:21:14.620] immediately maybe, there's just tons of distractions, whether that be via like
[01:21:14.620 -> 01:21:18.880] social media and I know lots of schools now are using digital platforms like
[01:21:18.880 -> 01:21:23.720] within my school, you know, everything I do goes on to Google Classroom. Sometimes
[01:21:23.720 -> 01:21:25.960] one of the things that I've introduced recently
[01:21:25.960 -> 01:21:29.520] is I might have students sort of choose a podcast
[01:21:29.520 -> 01:21:31.120] and we'll go on a walk
[01:21:31.120 -> 01:21:32.640] and we'll listen to a podcast together.
[01:21:32.640 -> 01:21:35.120] And when we'll come back in, we'll have a chat about it.
[01:21:35.120 -> 01:21:38.200] And it's just the small things because ultimately like,
[01:21:38.200 -> 01:21:40.520] yeah, we're trying to get students to pass exams
[01:21:40.520 -> 01:21:43.800] and to prepare them for, you know,
[01:21:43.800 -> 01:21:45.960] finding the right college or university or whatever
[01:21:45.960 -> 01:21:50.480] it is, but actually like, we're just preparing them to be good humans who can look after
[01:21:50.480 -> 01:21:55.440] themselves. And I think one of the things that Mel Marshall said, and I even posted
[01:21:55.440 -> 01:21:58.640] on my Instagram the other day, because I was like, I love this, it's like people before
[01:21:58.640 -> 01:22:07.240] performance. And so, you know, if like as a teacher or as a, as, um, an athlete or whatever, you know,
[01:22:07.240 -> 01:22:11.980] if I'm putting the person at the center of what I'm trying to do, the performance will
[01:22:11.980 -> 01:22:14.160] actually just come naturally anyway.
[01:22:14.160 -> 01:22:18.920] And then the other thing of it is actually just role modeling, all of the good habits
[01:22:18.920 -> 01:22:23.960] and all of the tips that you can pick up from podcasts like yourselves all of the time.
[01:22:23.960 -> 01:22:25.800] So not just to your young people,
[01:22:25.800 -> 01:22:27.520] but to the other teachers around you.
[01:22:27.520 -> 01:22:31.760] Look, thank you so much for sharing those tips. I love the fact that you just go with
[01:22:31.760 -> 01:22:35.240] your students for a walk and put the podcast on and have a chat about it after. Journaling
[01:22:35.240 -> 01:22:39.640] at the end of the lesson is something that, you know, I think back to when I was at school,
[01:22:39.640 -> 01:22:44.560] you know, 25, 30 years ago, imagine if a teacher back then said, we're going to journal our
[01:22:44.560 -> 01:22:45.720] thoughts at the end of a lesson.
[01:22:45.720 -> 01:22:47.400] You just, it just didn't happen.
[01:22:47.400 -> 01:22:50.440] And I love the fact that it is different now.
[01:22:50.440 -> 01:22:53.000] And we are talking to our young people,
[01:22:53.000 -> 01:22:55.260] our next generation, our future in a totally different way.
[01:22:55.260 -> 01:22:57.800] And it's our pleasure that we can just help
[01:22:57.800 -> 01:22:58.960] in some small way.
[01:22:58.960 -> 01:23:01.280] So thank you so much for nicking out of your lesson
[01:23:01.280 -> 01:23:02.100] to speak to us.
[01:23:02.100 -> 01:23:03.480] Thank you so much for listening to the pod.
[01:23:03.480 -> 01:23:05.560] Thank you so much for sharing it with your students. And thank you so much for being an advocate for your lesson to speak to us. Thank you so much for listening to the pod. Thank you so much for sharing it with your students and
[01:23:05.560 -> 01:23:09.480] thank you so much for being an advocate for the High Performance Podcast, Celeste.
[01:23:09.480 -> 01:23:13.280] Alright, thanks guys. Bye!
[01:23:13.280 -> 01:23:20.120] Ah, Celeste was really cool, wasn't she? That's almost it for today's episode but
[01:23:20.120 -> 01:23:23.760] I just want to share with you a tweet from Ian Dark who's a colleague of mine.
[01:23:23.760 -> 01:23:26.120] He's a football commentator.
[01:23:26.120 -> 01:23:28.240] And he put this up this week.
[01:23:28.240 -> 01:23:31.920] He said, RIP Brian Hughes,
[01:23:31.920 -> 01:23:35.080] the wonderful Manchester boxing trainer and personality.
[01:23:35.080 -> 01:23:37.820] One of my favorite people in the sport of boxing.
[01:23:37.820 -> 01:23:39.440] They should build a statue of him.
[01:23:39.440 -> 01:23:42.520] United Stars Brian Kidd and Nobby Stiles
[01:23:42.520 -> 01:23:43.920] used to spar at his gym.
[01:23:43.920 -> 01:23:48.000] And Brian Hughes worked with the likes of Tyson Fury and Scott Quigg,
[01:23:48.000 -> 01:23:52.000] spent more than 50 years coaching in the Collihurst area of the city of Manchester.
[01:23:52.000 -> 01:23:56.000] He was awarded an MBE, he's got a street named after him
[01:23:56.000 -> 01:24:00.000] and he's sadly passed away in the last few days at the age of 82.
[01:24:00.000 -> 01:24:06.300] Paul Smith, who was a super middleweight boxer, said he had a massive influence on the fight game
[01:24:06.400 -> 01:24:08.100] in Manchester and far beyond.
[01:24:08.200 -> 01:24:09.600] And the promoter Frank Warren said,
[01:24:09.700 -> 01:24:11.900] between us, we made many champions,
[01:24:12.000 -> 01:24:15.400] Manchester legends, and shared good times along the journey.
[01:24:15.500 -> 01:24:18.000] And that goes back many decades.
[01:24:18.100 -> 01:24:20.100] And the reason why we're talking about Brian Hughes,
[01:24:20.200 -> 01:24:24.100] who was known as the godfather of Manchester boxing,
[01:24:24.200 -> 01:24:25.760] is because he was
[01:24:25.760 -> 01:24:31.280] Damien's dad and you only have to sit and listen to Damien talk about his dad
[01:24:31.280 -> 01:24:40.000] for 30 seconds to realize the respect and the love and the deep gratitude that
[01:24:40.000 -> 01:24:43.720] Damien has for a man who taught him so much. You may well have heard Damien
[01:24:43.720 -> 01:24:45.280] speak in the past
[01:24:45.280 -> 01:24:47.480] about the fact that he basically grew up
[01:24:47.480 -> 01:24:50.120] in the boxing rings and the gyms of Manchester,
[01:24:50.120 -> 01:24:51.320] and that was due to his dad.
[01:24:51.320 -> 01:24:54.340] And so everything that Damien has gone on to do since
[01:24:54.340 -> 01:24:57.180] really comes from his dad, Brian.
[01:24:57.180 -> 01:24:59.480] And Brian was a father figure
[01:24:59.480 -> 01:25:02.000] to so many people in his local area.
[01:25:02.000 -> 01:25:05.600] His legacy will live on at Colliehurst and at Moston.
[01:25:05.600 -> 01:25:07.160] Many, many people that he worked with,
[01:25:07.160 -> 01:25:09.280] he changed their life and they've gone on to do work
[01:25:09.280 -> 01:25:11.240] that's changed the life of so many people.
[01:25:11.240 -> 01:25:15.240] So it is not an over-exaggeration to say that Brian Hughes
[01:25:15.240 -> 01:25:18.080] has impacted positively the lives of hundreds
[01:25:18.080 -> 01:25:19.580] and hundreds of people.
[01:25:19.580 -> 01:25:21.600] And I have no doubt that the reason why Damien
[01:25:21.600 -> 01:25:23.940] wants to be part of the High Performance Podcast
[01:25:23.940 -> 01:25:27.620] is because of his dad and the legacy that he leaves behind.
[01:25:27.620 -> 01:25:32.440] So I'm sure you'll understand why Damien isn't with us to wrap up the podcast this week.
[01:25:32.440 -> 01:25:37.080] We filmed the interview you heard with Kyle Loco a couple of weeks ago and since then
[01:25:37.080 -> 01:25:42.540] his dad has passed away at the age of 82 and of course we send all of our love to Damien's
[01:25:42.540 -> 01:25:46.620] whole family, his children of of course Brian's grandchildren and
[01:25:47.460 -> 01:25:53.700] Yeah, we keep him in our thoughts and he will be back on the podcast as usual next week
[01:25:54.020 -> 01:25:57.300] So thanks very much for listening. Remember there is no secret
[01:25:57.300 -> 01:26:04.620] It is all there for you be your own biggest cheerleader make world-class basics your calling card and on behalf of the whole team
[01:26:06.000 -> 01:26:06.600] myself Make world-class basics your calling card. And on behalf of the whole team, myself,
[01:26:09.580 -> 01:26:09.600] Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio, Hannah, Eve, Will, and everyone
[01:26:12.600 -> 01:26:12.900] else on the High Performance Podcast, including, of course,
[01:26:14.100 -> 01:26:14.700] Professor Damien Hughes.
[01:26:15.500 -> 01:26:16.100] Thanks for listening.
[01:26:17.100 -> 01:26:32.000] And we'll see you next week. Save big on the brands you love at the Fred Meyer 5am Black Friday sale!
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[01:26:50.360 -> 01:26:52.840] Doors open at 5 AM, so get there early.
[01:26:52.840 -> 01:26:55.880] Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone.