E1 - Rio Ferdinand: Lessons from loss

From an estate in Peckham, to the World Cup. From winning the Champions League to struggling at QPR. What was it really like in the Manchester United dressing room? Is he happy? What has personal tragedy taught him about being a better person? This is Rio Ferdinand as you’ve never heard him before, openly sharing his secrets to his High Performance life. Winning cultures, elite mindsets, and the tricks you can employ to enjoy success and taste happiness in your own life...whatever comes your way.

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# High-Performance Podcast with Rio Ferdinand
## Episode Summary:
In this episode of the High-Performance Podcast, Jake Humphrey sits down with former Manchester United defender and football pundit Rio Ferdinand to discuss his journey to success, both on and off the pitch. Ferdinand shares his insights on the importance of setting targets, embracing challenges, and maintaining a relentless mindset. He also reflects on the setbacks he faced, including a missed drug test that resulted in an eight-month ban, and how he used those experiences to fuel his motivation and determination.

### Key Takeaways:

* **Embrace Challenges:** Ferdinand emphasizes the importance of embracing challenges and setbacks as opportunities for growth and improvement. He believes that facing adversity can help individuals develop resilience and a stronger mindset.

* **Set Targets:** Ferdinand highlights the significance of setting clear and ambitious targets to drive motivation and focus. He shares his practice of setting targets at the beginning of each season to push himself and stay stimulated.

* **Maintain a Relentless Mindset:** Ferdinand stresses the importance of maintaining a relentless mindset and a strong work ethic. He believes that success requires a commitment to continuous improvement and a refusal to accept mediocrity.

* **Learn from Mistakes:** Ferdinand acknowledges the role of mistakes in personal growth and development. He emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes, taking responsibility, and using them as fuel for improvement.

* **Surround Yourself with Positivity:** Ferdinand emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with positive influences and supportive people. He believes that having a strong support system can help individuals navigate challenges and achieve their goals.

* **Visualize Success:** Ferdinand shares his practice of visualization as a tool for mental preparation. He explains how he would visualize his performances, focusing on specific details and movements, to enhance his focus and confidence.

* **Embrace Pressure:** Ferdinand highlights the importance of embracing pressure and using it as a motivator. He believes that pressure can be a positive force that drives individuals to perform at their best.

### Memorable Quotes:

* "I was scared. I was fearful of just trying to enjoy too much in the moment because I wanted the future to be a pure clarity and understand I'm going to go there again. And do you think that's a healthy or an unhealthy way to be? It's probably massively rewarding and it probably helps you to achieve a lot, but maybe exhausting as well." - Rio Ferdinand

* "I was obsessed with football from a young kid. I used to travel far and wide to go and play football, to just go and train with one of my best mates, travel through like a travellers camp where it can be a bit tricky getting through, there's dogs, wild dogs hanging about and stuff and people and whatnot and over different estates to get to a certain patch of grass which we thought this is a great place to train and train for a few hours and then come back." - Rio Ferdinand

* "I've always been like that. I never wanted to be pigeonholed in my life. I've always been like that. I never knew it as being pigeonholed as a kid but I never wanted to be oh you're a boy from the estate you're not going to stay there and do that." - Rio Ferdinand

* "It's probably one of the hardest things to kind of dissect when you're in the midst of a career. All of a sudden your life goes from being normal paced to being a whirlwind." - Rio Ferdinand

### Overall Message:
Rio Ferdinand's journey to success is a testament to the power of hard work, resilience, and a relentless mindset. He emphasizes the importance of embracing challenges, setting clear targets, and surrounding oneself with positive influences. Ferdinand's insights provide valuable lessons for individuals seeking to achieve high performance in their personal and professional lives.

## Podcast Episode Summary:
### Title: Rio Ferdinand: High Performance Life
### Host: Damien and Jake

**Introduction:**
- Rio Ferdinand, a renowned former Manchester United player, shares his insights on achieving success, maintaining happiness, and leading a high-performance life.

**Early Life and Challenges:**
- Growing up in a Peckham estate, Rio faced numerous challenges, including poverty and limited opportunities.
- Despite these obstacles, he pursued his passion for football relentlessly, aiming to break free from his circumstances.
- Rio emphasizes the importance of setting goals and applying oneself consistently to achieve success.

**Manchester United Experience:**
- Joining Manchester United as a record transfer fee, Rio encountered a culture of high standards, professionalism, and winning mentality.
- The club's winning culture and the leadership of Sir Alex Ferguson played a significant role in shaping Rio's career and mindset.
- Rio highlights the importance of having clear expectations, maintaining high training standards, and fostering a strong work ethic within a team.

**Culture and Leadership:**
- Rio believes that a team's culture is defined by a few non-negotiable behaviors, such as training standards, work ethic, and a winning mentality.
- He emphasizes the role of leaders in setting the tone and enforcing the culture within a team.
- Rio stresses the importance of weeding out players who do not align with the team's culture and values.

**Personal Tragedy and Growth:**
- Rio experienced a personal tragedy when his first wife, Rebecca, passed away.
- This event prompted him to reflect on his life and priorities, leading him to focus on his children and building a strong family.
- Rio emphasizes the importance of communication and emotional support in dealing with grief and loss.

**Transition to Management and Learning:**
- Rio initially aspired to become a manager, but his personal circumstances led him to reconsider this path.
- He gained valuable experience at Queens Park Rangers, where he observed the challenges of running a football club.
- Rio recognizes the importance of learning from both positive and negative experiences and using them to grow as a person and leader.

**Key Lessons and Advice:**
- Rio advises young people to enjoy the moment but also set targets and apply themselves consistently to achieve their goals.
- He emphasizes the significance of communication and emotional support in building strong relationships and overcoming challenges.
- Rio believes that happiness can be found through communication, self-awareness, and surrounding oneself with positive influences.
- His golden rule for living a high-performance life is to apply oneself correctly every day and set clear targets.

**Conclusion:**
- Rio Ferdinand's journey from a Peckham estate to a world-class footballer and successful entrepreneur is a testament to his resilience, determination, and ability to learn from both triumphs and setbacks.
- His insights on culture, leadership, and personal growth offer valuable lessons for anyone seeking to achieve success and fulfillment in their own lives.

# High Performance Podcast Episode Summary: Rio Ferdinand's Journey from Peckham to Manchester United and Beyond

In this episode of the High Performance podcast, Rio Ferdinand, the former Manchester United and England defender, shares his insights on winning cultures, elite mindsets, and personal growth.

## From Peckham to the World Cup: A Journey of Success

Rio Ferdinand's journey to the top of football began in Peckham, London. From his humble beginnings, he rose through the ranks to become one of the most successful defenders in English football history. He won multiple Premier League titles, Champions League, and FA Cups with Manchester United and represented England at the World Cup and European Championships.

## Inside the Manchester United Dressing Room: Winning Culture and Elite Mindset

Ferdinand provides a glimpse into the inner workings of the Manchester United dressing room during his time at the club. He emphasizes the importance of a winning culture and an elite mindset among the players. He highlights the role of Sir Alex Ferguson, the legendary manager, in fostering this culture and driving the team to success.

## Personal Tragedy and Growth: Learning from Life's Challenges

Ferdinand also opens up about personal tragedies he has faced, including the loss of his wife to cancer. He reflects on how these experiences have shaped him as a person and helped him develop a deeper understanding of resilience and gratitude. He emphasizes the importance of learning from life's challenges and using them as opportunities for growth and self-improvement.

## Tricks for Success and Happiness: Applying Lessons to Your Own Life

Ferdinand shares practical tips and strategies that individuals can employ to achieve success and happiness in their own lives. He emphasizes the importance of setting goals, maintaining a positive mindset, and surrounding oneself with supportive people. He also highlights the value of perseverance and resilience in overcoming obstacles and achieving long-term success.

## Overall Message: Embracing Challenges and Achieving Personal Growth

The overall message of the podcast episode is that success and happiness are achievable through embracing challenges, maintaining a positive mindset, and learning from life's experiences. Ferdinand's journey from Peckham to the World Cup and his personal growth following tragedy serve as an inspiration to listeners, encouraging them to strive for excellence and overcome adversity in their own lives.

[00:00.000 -> 00:06.720] Hiya, it's Jake here. Listen, thanks for joining us for the first ever High Performance Podcast.
[00:06.720 -> 00:11.720] I'm so pleased you've decided to download this one. And today's guest, our first guest,
[00:11.720 -> 00:15.080] is going to be fascinating. Here's what's in store.
[00:15.080 -> 00:18.680] Having the moments of communicating and making the kids part of that understanding under
[00:18.680 -> 00:24.120] that process was huge because communicating with my children, as much as I was an unbelievable
[00:24.120 -> 00:27.640] communicator in a changing room, I want a great great communicator emotionally
[00:27.640 -> 00:29.640] Yeah, or at home. I wasn't
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[02:44.040 -> 02:48.200] you're listening to high-performance the podcast that delves into the minds of some
[02:48.200 -> 02:53.580] of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs and artists on the planet and
[02:53.580 -> 02:56.320] aims to unlock the very secrets to their success.
[02:56.320 -> 02:57.320] As ever, I'm not alone.
[02:57.320 -> 02:59.280] Damien Hughes is with us and we're in your hometown.
[02:59.280 -> 03:02.020] Hello, here in Manchester, rainy Manchester.
[03:02.020 -> 03:03.360] No travel for you for this one.
[03:03.360 -> 03:04.360] It's been good.
[03:04.360 -> 03:08.720] It's not raining either which is remarkable. Not only are we in Manchester, we're in a place called Rosso
[03:08.720 -> 03:14.240] which is basically the place to eat in Manchester and we're with the guy who helped to set it up.
[03:14.240 -> 03:19.440] Not only is he a restaurateur, he's also a football pundit, a media mogul, a brand ambassador,
[03:19.440 -> 03:27.680] he's won everything you can win apart from the FA Cup with Manchester United and he's invited us for a high-performance chat in his own restaurant
[03:28.120 -> 03:34.360] Maria Ferdinand welcome to high performance. How you doing? Nice to have you with us. Yeah, very good. Listen in my experience
[03:35.000 -> 03:38.680] Massively successful people don't spend much time dwelling on their success
[03:38.680 -> 03:44.160] So when we sit here in your restaurant in your city where you dominated football for all those years
[03:44.720 -> 03:47.240] Do you reflect do you think yeah life's good?
[03:47.240 -> 03:52.180] Or are you the kind of person that has always moved on to the next win the next challenge the next adventure?
[03:52.180 -> 03:54.180] I've never sat and dwelt on
[03:54.700 -> 03:56.400] Stuff that I've won and that in that moment
[03:56.400 -> 04:02.400] I think I was I was always fearful of doing that because I thought if I do that my eyes been taken off what's coming
[04:02.400 -> 04:05.360] down the road so I never ever I
[04:05.360 -> 04:09.580] mean probably a good indicator of how intense that was was we won the
[04:09.580 -> 04:14.200] Champions League in Moscow and we after you win the Champions League you get
[04:14.200 -> 04:18.240] changed and you go to the hotel where everyone's there's a party or a little
[04:18.240 -> 04:22.960] gathering for the families and friends and all the players and staff and within
[04:22.960 -> 04:27.720] that within the first 15-20 minutes I was searched out David Gill and said listen Mr. Gill how you doing
[04:27.720 -> 04:31.480] Rio brilliant how you doing? I said right so who we buying next year?
[04:31.480 -> 04:38.240] Who we getting? This is how long after the final? A couple of hours. He said are you crazy?
[04:38.240 -> 04:41.200] Just enjoy the night. I said yeah but who we getting? We've got to win this
[04:41.200 -> 04:44.560] thing. I want to be here next year again and so that's just what was
[04:44.560 -> 04:45.560] always the way I was.
[04:45.560 -> 04:49.720] I was scared. I was fearful of just trying to enjoy too much in the moment
[04:49.720 -> 04:53.960] because I wanted the future to be a pure clarity and understand I'm going to go there again.
[04:53.960 -> 04:56.760] And do you think that's a healthy or an unhealthy way to be?
[04:56.760 -> 05:00.400] It's probably massively rewarding and it probably helps you to achieve a lot,
[05:00.400 -> 05:02.040] but maybe exhausting as well.
[05:02.040 -> 05:03.200] Well, I look at it...
[05:03.200 -> 05:05.580] When I look back and reflect now at it when I look back and reflect
[05:05.580 -> 05:10.440] now in retirement I look back and I see Liverpool now starting to win they win a
[05:10.440 -> 05:16.180] trophy they're doing a tour open open bus tour around the city all the fans
[05:16.180 -> 05:21.160] are out City win the Carling Cup at the time they're in the city doing an open
[05:21.160 -> 05:27.280] open top bus tour and we won the Champions League and the Premier League
[05:27.280 -> 05:33.800] that year in Moscow, arrived back into Manchester, if there was 50 fans there waiting for us
[05:33.800 -> 05:38.880] to welcome us home I would be lying. And then the manager said, right guys, well done, I'll
[05:38.880 -> 05:43.920] see you for pre-season. And I'm sitting there thinking, at the time I was fine because that
[05:43.920 -> 05:45.040] was it but
[05:49.700 -> 05:49.760] After I look back now and think we didn't even we didn't even really celebrate after things we won
[05:53.180 -> 05:56.920] We didn't really go mad and really indulge and like go, you know Actually in show people like this is the way it means to us. It was very like
[05:58.360 -> 06:01.720] Machine like but again when you sit there and wait up
[06:01.720 -> 06:05.920] Well, if we've gone the other way and become like these other people, would we have sustained the success
[06:05.920 -> 06:08.160] that we kind of went on to achieve?
[06:08.160 -> 06:11.200] I wonder whether that is a specific creation
[06:11.200 -> 06:12.880] of Sir Alex Ferguson at that time,
[06:12.880 -> 06:15.080] to build a culture like that at Manchester United
[06:15.080 -> 06:17.920] where it is about achieving the success,
[06:17.920 -> 06:19.520] not celebrating the success.
[06:19.520 -> 06:22.120] Well it's interesting, I've heard Gary Neville speak about
[06:22.120 -> 06:24.240] when he was asked to sum up his experience
[06:24.240 -> 06:25.420] at Manchester United in one word
[06:25.780 -> 06:33.140] He used the word relentlessness. It was that idea that you'd like once you win something you go again. Yeah, that's it. Yeah on relenting
[06:33.660 -> 06:36.660] That 100% I mean like another example
[06:37.660 -> 06:38.980] Ben Foster
[06:38.980 -> 06:43.520] He hadn't grown up at Manchester United. He got brought in from Watford. I think it was
[06:44.700 -> 06:45.200] Great lad played in the Carling Cup final we won I think growing up at Manchester United, he got brought in from Watford I think it was.
[06:45.200 -> 06:50.240] Great lad. Played in the Carling Cup final, we won. He was mad at the match, put on a
[06:50.240 -> 06:55.280] great performance. And I remember an article he'd done when he left the club and saying
[06:55.280 -> 06:57.840] that I was sitting in the changing room and I looked over in the corner and the Carling
[06:57.840 -> 07:02.280] Cup was just sitting there on its own. And I couldn't get my head around it. There wasn't
[07:02.280 -> 07:08.840] celebrating, there wasn't a party, there wasn't what I expected, anticipated seeing. I was sitting there, I was all out of time, I can
[07:08.840 -> 07:11.520] understand it now, but at the time I was frustrated, I was thinking that's why you're not a main
[07:11.520 -> 07:15.120] United player, that's why you had to leave because you don't understand. You didn't buy
[07:15.120 -> 07:20.800] into that early enough. We got a game Tuesday, Champions League. We just won the Carlin Cup,
[07:20.800 -> 07:28.000] but what are you going to do, celebrate? And then all of a sudden put yourself at a negative starting point for the next game against I don't know
[07:28.000 -> 07:30.960] Roma in the quarterfinals of the Champions League no thanks we've got
[07:30.960 -> 07:34.400] that's bigger bigger pictures over there won that thank you in the back pocket
[07:34.400 -> 07:36.040] see you later on to the next one.
[07:36.040 -> 07:40.560] Q. But what intrigues me Delvio is that were you always like that yourself
[07:40.560 -> 07:43.600] relentless or was that something you learned by going into a different
[07:43.600 -> 07:44.600] environment?
[07:44.600 -> 07:47.980] A. I was obsessed with football From a young kid, I used to
[07:47.980 -> 07:52.180] travel far and wide to go and play football, to just go and train with one
[07:52.180 -> 07:57.780] of my best mates, travel through like a travellers camp where it can be a bit
[07:57.780 -> 08:00.940] tricky getting through, there's dogs, wild dogs hanging about and stuff and people
[08:00.940 -> 08:09.280] and whatnot and over different estates to get to a certain patch of grass which we thought this is a great place to train and train for a few hours and
[08:09.280 -> 08:12.520] then come back. That's after playing a Sunday league game on that morning probably but just
[08:12.520 -> 08:17.480] mad stuff like I played football till the all the time I could get where I'd train and
[08:17.480 -> 08:22.840] try and get better I'd always do it and it was that relentless the word relentless probably
[08:22.840 -> 08:25.000] signifies a lot of how I was when I was a kid.
[08:25.000 -> 08:30.400] I was hard working, I always wanted to improve and I always wanted to be better than the
[08:30.400 -> 08:31.400] next man.
[08:31.400 -> 08:36.680] I'd take it as a personal insult or my pride would take a beating or I'd find it embarrassing
[08:36.680 -> 08:42.280] that I'm not the best one in my year at school, I'm not the best one in my team.
[08:42.280 -> 08:53.000] The team need me more than anyone else to play to succeed. I used to always like that? Why did you feel you had to be the best in anything that you did?
[08:53.000 -> 09:01.000] I don't know. Was it drummed into you? No my dad wasn't a football man my dad was into kung fu. I'll tell you one thing my dad never let me win anything as a kid.
[09:01.000 -> 09:05.840] So you were constantly striving to be successful? I was striving to be successful at something.
[09:05.840 -> 09:07.880] So if it's playing cards against him,
[09:07.880 -> 09:10.920] or playing tennis against him,
[09:10.920 -> 09:13.320] or running, racing him,
[09:13.320 -> 09:15.280] like, or chasing him when he was on a bike.
[09:15.280 -> 09:16.720] He used to make me run and you'd go on a bike
[09:16.720 -> 09:18.360] and say, chase me.
[09:18.360 -> 09:19.880] So I wonder then whether you,
[09:19.880 -> 09:21.400] you weren't actually obsessed with football.
[09:21.400 -> 09:23.440] You thought you were obsessed with football.
[09:23.440 -> 09:25.520] You were actually obsessed with being the best.
[09:25.520 -> 09:27.160] Football was your chosen thing, yes.
[09:27.160 -> 09:28.160] Maybe yeah.
[09:28.160 -> 09:30.680] But it was about being better than everybody around you.
[09:30.680 -> 09:35.000] And I think also is proving people to people I can do something, I can be good at that.
[09:35.000 -> 09:39.160] Like my dad for example, like proving to him that one day I'm going to beat you, watch.
[09:39.160 -> 09:40.160] One day I'll beat you in a race.
[09:40.160 -> 09:42.280] And what happened when you did beat him?
[09:42.280 -> 09:45.520] It was, right, I need to be faster than there's someone over there who beats me.
[09:45.520 -> 09:46.720] I've got to beat now.
[09:46.720 -> 09:50.720] And on my estate, another thing probably as well, I was always the youngest in my group of friends.
[09:50.720 -> 09:55.720] So if you come to my house and I have a gathering or my wedding for instance,
[09:55.720 -> 09:58.720] all my mates I grew up with are there, most of them.
[09:58.720 -> 10:01.720] And they're all like three, four, five years older than me.
[10:01.720 -> 10:04.720] So as a young kid, playing football, that's good.
[10:04.720 -> 10:05.600] Because you're playing against people who physically can dominate you. three, four, five years older than me. So as a young kid playing football, that's good.
[10:05.600 -> 10:06.720] Because you're playing against people
[10:06.720 -> 10:08.760] who physically can dominate you.
[10:08.760 -> 10:11.120] The majority of them are quicker than you.
[10:11.120 -> 10:14.320] So you've got to find other ways to beat people,
[10:14.320 -> 10:16.000] other tricks to do things with,
[10:16.000 -> 10:17.960] and to get the better of people
[10:17.960 -> 10:21.120] that are physically way, way up the ladder than you.
[10:21.120 -> 10:23.200] The guys who are my age, really,
[10:23.200 -> 10:24.400] weren't good enough at football.
[10:24.400 -> 10:26.400] I used to think, what's boring playing with these guys?
[10:26.400 -> 10:27.920] I want to play with the big guys.
[10:27.920 -> 10:34.860] And then after that, when I got to probably like 11, 12, 13, I'd go on to other estates
[10:34.860 -> 10:36.920] and play against other kids and other adults.
[10:36.920 -> 10:40.320] So we'd go and find a group of guys at a place called Burgess Park and these guys were
[10:40.320 -> 10:42.560] like men who would turn up in cars.
[10:42.560 -> 10:45.080] They treated us like adults, kicked you, smashed
[10:45.080 -> 10:46.080] you all over the place.
[10:46.080 -> 10:47.560] How did you react to that?
[10:47.560 -> 10:50.240] You couldn't react because if you react like a baby, they're going to take you off the
[10:50.240 -> 10:54.080] pitch. So that environment was really, again, I always remember that's a good environment
[10:54.080 -> 10:55.880] to grow up in as a young kid.
[10:55.880 -> 11:00.680] It's almost like you didn't realise how those early formative days were equipping you for
[11:00.680 -> 11:04.440] when you're standing on a football pitch winning the Champions League or the Premier League,
[11:04.440 -> 11:10.560] but actually you can probably trace the journey right back to the lessons that you learned as an 8, 9, 10 year old
[11:10.560 -> 11:14.120] and there'll be parents listening to this or even 8, 9, 10 year olds listening to this
[11:14.120 -> 11:19.200] not realizing that the things that are happening today do have a direct impact 20 years later.
[11:19.200 -> 11:23.560] Yeah definitely and also like not only the good things but also some of the bad things
[11:23.560 -> 11:30.760] like I was 13, 14 years old, 14 made 14 other growth spurt as most kids do and I became like Bambi on ice
[11:31.040 -> 11:32.520] like no coordination
[11:32.520 -> 11:38.480] and I've gone from being someone that West Ham had gone out to go and get him become a schoolboy player for West Ham and
[11:38.480 -> 11:41.160] They'd say Frank Lampard's dad. We want you come on
[11:41.680 -> 11:46.120] To be in a sub and I'm sitting there thinking, doubting myself, am I gonna make it?
[11:46.120 -> 11:47.880] As you know, I'm a big advocate of failure
[11:47.880 -> 11:50.920] and the importance of failing to move forward.
[11:50.920 -> 11:54.000] It's the only way of finding where your limits are.
[11:54.000 -> 11:55.960] And I think we equip the kids now,
[11:55.960 -> 11:57.240] we're all parents sitting around this table,
[11:57.240 -> 11:58.840] we equip our children to not fail, don't we?
[11:58.840 -> 12:00.800] We make sure that things are put in their way
[12:00.800 -> 12:04.280] so they always have a nice, smooth path to success.
[12:04.280 -> 12:08.280] But actually, that growth spurt where you turn into Bambi on ice and you suddenly
[12:08.280 -> 12:11.240] couldn't play football to the level that you were and there were doubts and
[12:11.240 -> 12:16.380] question marks that again is such a sort of formative moment like to fail and to
[12:16.380 -> 12:20.640] fail at a young age and then to have to find your own way around that failure
[12:20.640 -> 12:24.480] yeah be patient kids today got no patience they expect everything on a
[12:24.480 -> 12:28.320] silver plate now it's about training them and making them aware that listen
[12:28.320 -> 12:31.480] there are going to be failures and this is what I say to my kids all the time
[12:31.480 -> 12:35.480] you are not going to be the best all the time and you're going to fail at some
[12:35.480 -> 12:38.920] times you're going to lose but it's how you come how you're going to react you're
[12:38.920 -> 12:44.440] going to cry? Crying is not a problem it's fine cry but what are you going to do
[12:44.440 -> 12:45.880] then to stop that emotion
[12:45.880 -> 12:48.440] being coming on again and feeling that pain?
[12:48.440 -> 12:50.400] And that's what I say to my boys all the time.
[12:50.400 -> 12:53.680] I used to cry I was a bad loser, I like bad losers.
[12:53.680 -> 12:56.560] But now the kids are being taught not to lose.
[12:56.560 -> 12:57.920] There's no winners and losers anymore,
[12:57.920 -> 12:58.880] I can't get my head around it.
[12:58.880 -> 13:01.000] I go into the school and ask their teacher,
[13:01.000 -> 13:03.280] why is there no first, second, and third?
[13:03.280 -> 13:05.200] In life there's first, second and third.
[13:05.200 -> 13:09.600] There's last place in life. They're not being brought up to actually understand that the
[13:09.600 -> 13:13.100] realities in life is they're going to be in that situation at some point.
[13:13.100 -> 13:18.940] You have a certain perception that your talent was obvious from a very early age and these
[13:18.940 -> 13:23.320] guys that you're playing football with obviously saw you were a level of ability. But what
[13:23.320 -> 13:29.080] age did you come to the realisation that it was more than talent that was going to take you to the to
[13:29.080 -> 13:35.720] where you wanted to go? I probably I don't know 16 probably I just knew that
[13:35.720 -> 13:40.240] I had to outwork everyone. Like me and Frank Lampard I was I was lucky
[13:40.240 -> 13:42.840] sometimes it's good to buddy up with people as well me and Frank Lampard are
[13:42.840 -> 13:49.000] from completely different backgrounds but we had a common goal and a common idea of what we wanted in life,
[13:49.000 -> 13:52.000] which was to be as good footballers as we could be.
[13:52.000 -> 13:55.000] And we kind of just edged each other on in that respect.
[13:55.000 -> 13:58.000] He was a hard-working guy, I was hard-working,
[13:58.000 -> 14:00.000] and I saw he would be doing something over there,
[14:00.000 -> 14:02.000] I can't let him have the edge on me, I'm going to do that as well.
[14:02.000 -> 14:04.000] And I was fortunate to have that buddy,
[14:04.000 -> 14:06.960] who I could look at and draw inspiration from at times.
[14:06.960 -> 14:11.120] Oh, he's been picked by the reserve team and he's only just turned 17.
[14:11.120 -> 14:12.800] I want to do it at 16 and a half.
[14:12.800 -> 14:15.600] And it wasn't from animosity or vindictive or being nasty,
[14:15.600 -> 14:19.120] it was just like that was just competition between us, but never spoken about.
[14:19.920 -> 14:26.480] And I guess you would have been in teams and playing with people who had as much ability as you,
[14:26.480 -> 14:31.280] but the mental approach was so different. The lack of hard work really was what meant
[14:31.280 -> 14:32.960] they didn't get as far as you got in the game.
[14:32.960 -> 14:36.920] There's loads of players I could name who have got more ability than I had, probably,
[14:36.920 -> 14:42.000] but they didn't have the work ethic or the mental capacity to take loads of stuff on
[14:42.000 -> 14:47.860] board, what comes with it, the it the pressure expectations dealing with all that. How can you learn though to to take the
[14:47.860 -> 14:53.420] pressure some 15 16-year-olds can take pressure criticism scrutiny others just
[14:53.420 -> 14:57.620] simply can't and I don't know whether you can equip them for that. Me and my
[14:57.620 -> 15:01.380] mates have got a little chat group whatsapp group and one of the common
[15:01.380 -> 15:08.700] themes all the time is like the kids haven't got like the harsh reality banter that we used to have as a kid so everyone got
[15:08.700 -> 15:14.260] theirs everyone got grilled everyone got put down on the floor without that I
[15:14.260 -> 15:18.840] don't know if I could have taken the media attention as well as I have or the
[15:18.840 -> 15:22.000] negativity that comes from certain quarters in the media or on the fan the
[15:22.000 -> 15:26.880] terraces etc. There was something about your background that intrigued me that links to this that
[15:26.880 -> 15:31.720] that you spoke about you did ballet for a number of years when you were there
[15:31.720 -> 15:36.120] and I'm interested that from a lad from Peckham. Yeah it's brave definitely but
[15:36.120 -> 15:39.520] at first I didn't say anything to my mates where you going? Because
[15:39.520 -> 15:41.920] obviously I've got to walk off the estate with a backpack on. Where you going?
[15:41.920 -> 15:45.000] I'm just going to my mate's.
[15:45.000 -> 15:45.840] That lasted a little while.
[15:45.840 -> 15:46.680] What mate?
[15:46.680 -> 15:48.440] You've never spoke about this mate before.
[15:48.440 -> 15:50.040] No, I go to like a dance school.
[15:50.040 -> 15:50.880] What, you do dance?
[15:50.880 -> 15:51.720] No, I don't do dance.
[15:51.720 -> 15:53.880] I go there, there's like street dancing.
[15:53.880 -> 15:55.800] And then it became, you know what, I don't care.
[15:55.800 -> 15:57.560] I go there and I do like ballet.
[15:57.560 -> 15:58.760] What?
[15:58.760 -> 16:01.120] A few laughs, a few giggles, a few sniggers here and there,
[16:01.120 -> 16:04.000] but I was confident enough of my place
[16:04.000 -> 16:08.200] within my group of friends that that ain't gonna affect my relationship with anyone
[16:08.200 -> 16:14.000] because they know I am someone who can give and take the banter the same and I
[16:14.000 -> 16:17.080] and I was very comfortable in my own skin so I weren't really bothered about
[16:17.080 -> 16:21.000] what they're gonna say and by the way there's loads of girls I meet there as
[16:21.000 -> 16:23.000] well by the way that you don't know about is that alright?
[16:23.000 -> 16:27.160] It comes back to being a sort of a leader rather than being a lead doesn't it?
[16:27.160 -> 16:30.560] Yeah I never wanted to be pigeonholed in my life. I've always been like that. I never
[16:30.560 -> 16:33.960] knew it as being pigeonholed as a kid but I never wanted to be oh you're a boy from
[16:33.960 -> 16:37.120] the estate you're not going to stay there and do that. Opening this restaurant I remember
[16:37.120 -> 16:40.320] Alex Ferguson and David Gill saying to me well you're a disgrace what are you doing
[16:40.320 -> 16:43.240] you're a football player blah blah blah. Well if you're going to be here to hold my hand
[16:43.240 -> 16:49.120] when I retire and give me a job, guaranteed, well I won't do all this but I know you won't
[16:49.120 -> 16:53.480] so I need to set myself up doing stuff where I'll be busy etc to be able to do stuff in
[16:53.480 -> 16:58.920] my later life. By the time my time's up on this planet I've got a fear that people are
[16:58.920 -> 17:02.880] gonna go he was just a footballer. I want to be known for something else and that's
[17:02.880 -> 17:06.960] the type of stuff that stimulates me and keeps me going and keeps me ticking and that was how I was as a footballer. I don't, I'm not gonna be a good footballer, I don't want to be known for something else and that's the type of stuff that stimulates me and keeps me going and keeps me ticking and that was how I was
[17:06.960 -> 17:09.800] as a footballer. I'm not gonna be a good footballer, I don't want to be a
[17:09.800 -> 17:12.600] good footballer. I've got to be in a good footballer. What's next? I want to be a
[17:12.600 -> 17:16.040] top footballer, I want to be elite, I want to be considered one of the best in Europe,
[17:16.040 -> 17:19.400] one of the best in the world. Now the one thing I did do from an early age, from
[17:19.400 -> 17:24.600] probably 17, was set targets. At the beginning of every season, targets.
[17:24.600 -> 17:29.560] You've got to stimulate yourself somehow. would you do that with anyone or was that something you just on your own?
[17:29.560 -> 17:33.680] I saw a sports psychologist for a short period of time for maybe probably a month or two
[17:34.360 -> 17:41.140] It was more about preparation because sometimes I used to find it hard to prepare for a game. Yeah, and you you asked what you mean?
[17:41.140 -> 17:42.360] it's more like
[17:42.360 -> 17:45.200] my mom would be on I'm going for dinner
[17:45.200 -> 17:49.600] after the game and chatting to the boys what music you're gonna put on today and
[17:49.600 -> 17:53.840] I'm just right and I found it hard to just go concentrate on football this
[17:53.840 -> 17:57.320] game so then I started getting videos and that before of a game of a player
[17:57.320 -> 18:01.960] who I'm playing against so don't know Suarez on the Friday yeah I need all
[18:01.960 -> 18:07.000] these clips for when I'm going to hotel on Friday and I want to have about 10 minutes worth of his clips I can watch from his last few games.
[18:07.000 -> 18:10.000] So the last thing I see is Suarez before I go to bed.
[18:10.000 -> 18:14.000] The last thing I think about for probably 30 seconds is Suarez, his best moves, his best tricks,
[18:14.000 -> 18:19.000] what's his go-to trick when he's in the box to get a shot off, his best movements,
[18:19.000 -> 18:23.000] where's he runs he likes making, and I'd visualise myself taking the ball off him.
[18:23.000 -> 18:25.180] I'd visualise my first pass in the game, my first draw.
[18:25.180 -> 18:30.120] So even when you got to Man United, you didn't think I've made it, you were still even then
[18:30.120 -> 18:34.200] looking for the marginal gains, looking for the little opportunities to be even better?
[18:34.200 -> 18:37.580] Yeah, because I was scared, I didn't want to be seen as one of the just also normal
[18:37.580 -> 18:43.700] players in that dressing room. I need you to miss me if I'm not playing, I want my team
[18:43.700 -> 18:50.980] mates to go flipping El Rio's top player you know. So can I ask you then about, to combine a
[18:50.980 -> 18:54.560] few of the things about the setbacks and mistakes and about this preparation
[18:54.560 -> 19:00.040] during that period when you missed the drugs test at United and your
[19:00.040 -> 19:03.880] absence was keenly noted that season. We were top of the league when I left. Yeah
[19:03.880 -> 19:09.440] so people definitely noticed you weren't there. How did you process that
[19:09.440 -> 19:15.200] mistake of letting down other people? It was hard and I still get people even now
[19:15.200 -> 19:19.440] still say, oh you might as well smoke without fire but listen I proved beyond any doubt at
[19:19.440 -> 19:23.080] all that I hadn't taken any substances at all through doing like a hair
[19:23.080 -> 19:25.000] follicle test that you do when you go in the army.
[19:25.000 -> 19:27.080] But you get tarnished with that brush.
[19:27.080 -> 19:29.080] And I was bitter at first.
[19:29.080 -> 19:30.120] I hated the F.A.
[19:30.120 -> 19:31.480] I hated all the people in England
[19:31.480 -> 19:32.840] who were speaking in my face,
[19:32.840 -> 19:35.000] who smiled at me, but then banned me.
[19:35.000 -> 19:37.800] I used all of that hate and bitterness,
[19:37.800 -> 19:40.160] and I used all of that reading all the articles
[19:40.160 -> 19:42.440] and then people saying he's a drug cheat
[19:42.440 -> 19:43.280] and he's this and he's that,
[19:43.280 -> 19:44.520] and he's not gonna come back the same.
[19:44.520 -> 19:46.640] And when I trained, when I trained when I trained I saw a bit of
[19:46.640 -> 19:53.400] visualize all them people and then it became again obsession I don't think I
[19:53.400 -> 19:58.120] ever trained as hard and as frequent as I did in that period that I was banned I
[19:58.120 -> 20:02.200] trained harder I was fitter than I've ever been in my life and that's why when
[20:02.200 -> 20:06.080] I came back and in my first game I could probably have played two free games that day.
[20:06.080 -> 20:09.800] Did you not want to just shout this is all nonsense, here is the truth?
[20:09.800 -> 20:13.640] I was advised not to badly by the lawyers at the time so I was advised not to
[20:13.640 -> 20:17.200] speak I should have spoke at the beginning and said this is my my flags
[20:17.200 -> 20:19.600] going in the sand and that's it this is what it is.
[20:19.600 -> 20:21.600] Because the people believe it or not you have to tell them your own truth.
[20:21.600 -> 20:25.960] Yeah I was advised not to which I shouldn't have taken that advice but it was legal advice
[20:25.960 -> 20:28.360] and I'm trying to protect the club as well.
[20:28.360 -> 20:30.520] So did you read those articles about yourself?
[20:30.520 -> 20:31.520] Yeah I did.
[20:31.520 -> 20:32.520] How was that?
[20:32.520 -> 20:35.240] Yeah it's not nice but that was my fuel.
[20:35.240 -> 20:36.240] It was weird.
[20:36.240 -> 20:40.240] I didn't like it but I enjoyed it because I knew when I'm training and things are getting
[20:40.240 -> 20:48.600] hard when I'm running or I've got to do a certain gym session I was just thinking I'm going to throw that back down that man's throat, watch, that's going down
[20:48.600 -> 20:53.440] his throat. And a few times to be fair, when I came back I did pull a few reporters, like
[20:53.440 -> 20:57.360] you're right, you thought I was gone, you thought I wasn't going to come back this
[20:57.360 -> 21:01.920] time, I want to come back better, watch. And being focused enough to say you're not going
[21:01.920 -> 21:02.920] to beat me.
[21:02.920 -> 21:06.560] Was there any part of you at any point that thought, I'm. I'm gonna quit. I don't want this in my life.
[21:06.560 -> 21:09.080] No, I thought about just not playing for England again
[21:09.280 -> 21:13.640] I'm gonna come back and smash it for Man United and I ain't gonna play for England and you're gonna miss me and
[21:14.440 -> 21:19.080] But I just I couldn't do it in the end. I love football too much to have done that but a
[21:19.960 -> 21:22.720] Lot of people in that situation would have blamed everyone
[21:23.600 -> 21:27.000] You're the reason I'm not playing now. You're the reason my career's just gone down the drain.
[21:27.000 -> 21:34.000] You're the reason, and so in a lot of humans, being able to blame someone and shift responsibility allows you a way out.
[21:34.000 -> 21:37.000] That's where we are now with a lot of people.
[21:37.000 -> 21:42.000] And if you need the pride and you need the determination not to allow that,
[21:42.000 -> 21:44.000] and it would have been easy for me to say, you know what, that's why I'm rubbish now,
[21:44.000 -> 21:46.040] that's why my career's gone down the drain, because you lot have done not to allow that. Do you know what I mean? And it would have been easy for me to say, you know what, that's why I'm rubbish now. That's why my career's gone down the drain,
[21:46.040 -> 21:47.520] because you lot have done that and punished me.
[21:47.520 -> 21:49.640] And that could have been the story to my life after that,
[21:49.640 -> 21:50.680] and lived off it.
[21:50.680 -> 21:52.000] This is the classic conversation
[21:52.000 -> 21:53.040] that we've had a couple of times,
[21:53.040 -> 21:55.560] fault versus responsibility.
[21:55.560 -> 21:56.840] You can argue in this instance,
[21:56.840 -> 21:58.280] it might have been your fault this happened.
[21:58.280 -> 21:59.120] No, it was.
[21:59.120 -> 21:59.940] I said that at the beginning.
[21:59.940 -> 22:00.780] It's my responsibility.
[22:00.780 -> 22:01.620] I should have been there.
[22:01.620 -> 22:03.360] But it's not necessarily your fault
[22:03.360 -> 22:04.760] the ban was as big as it was,
[22:04.760 -> 22:07.520] and you got treated like you did, but doesn't matter does it because as soon as
[22:07.520 -> 22:12.180] They've said right Rio how long was the ban eight months as soon as they said right eight months no football
[22:12.440 -> 22:17.120] It's no one on the planet's responsibility at that moment mine than yours
[22:17.120 -> 22:23.040] But then that's where you so easy and I think now as a society. Oh, we love fault. We love yeah
[22:23.680 -> 22:29.000] They've but that's where it comes back from where I know I, so in my mind I know there's a date that I come back.
[22:29.000 -> 22:34.000] Actually, after a little while, it's Liverpool, the date that I come back.
[22:34.000 -> 22:40.000] I've got a target now, probably the best game I can come back to, our biggest rivals.
[22:40.000 -> 22:49.840] So that adds the pressure and I've always dealt well with having that extra pressure on my shoulders it's just maybe probably refocuses me maybe and so I had
[22:49.840 -> 22:54.840] that something to aim at and that was it so and then there's pride if I come back
[22:54.840 -> 22:57.760] and I'm rubbish I've got to answer questions well you're not the same real
[22:57.760 -> 23:02.360] no more are you? look at you what's happened you've gone yeah I couldn't I've been so
[23:02.360 -> 23:05.000] embarrassed to let that happen. And that was your fuel. Yeah.
[23:05.000 -> 23:06.000] You rode for that.
[23:06.000 -> 23:08.000] But that's the equivalent of you missing that school bus.
[23:08.000 -> 23:09.000] Yeah, exactly.
[23:09.000 -> 23:10.000] It's the pressure.
[23:10.000 -> 23:11.000] True.
[23:11.000 -> 23:14.000] A number of times you've spoken about your friends from Peckham, you've spoken about
[23:14.000 -> 23:17.000] where you were badly advised at that time.
[23:17.000 -> 23:23.000] How would you advise people that when they start to have a level of success, they attract
[23:23.000 -> 23:25.160] followers? that when they start to have a level of success, they attract followers.
[23:29.040 -> 23:29.240] What advice would you give now, having gone through that journey,
[23:32.120 -> 23:32.800] about how you differentiate between those that are with you
[23:35.120 -> 23:38.400] because they're worth having or those that are there for other reasons that are probably unhelpful?
[23:38.400 -> 23:42.520] It's probably one of the hardest things to kind of dissect
[23:43.160 -> 23:51.080] when you're in the midst of a career. All of a sudden your life goes from being normal paced to being a whirlwind of invitations,
[23:51.080 -> 23:53.400] people of the opposite sex.
[23:53.400 -> 23:56.200] Every door you go to is open for you.
[23:56.200 -> 23:59.100] And everything becomes easier in life.
[23:59.100 -> 24:03.280] And so there isn't anyone really telling you no.
[24:03.280 -> 24:06.000] And to sit and actually take that all in,
[24:06.000 -> 24:08.000] when it's going so fast, it's very difficult.
[24:08.000 -> 24:09.000] It's like being in a washing machine
[24:09.000 -> 24:13.000] and trying to actually dissect the colors from the whites
[24:13.000 -> 24:14.000] while the washing machine's on.
[24:14.000 -> 24:25.160] It's hard. the opposite of what big wireless does. They charge you a lot, we charge you a little.
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[26:55.560 -> 26:56.560] It's virtually impossible.
[26:56.560 -> 26:58.560] Lots of performing at an elite level.
[26:58.560 -> 26:59.560] Exactly.
[26:59.560 -> 27:00.560] Week in, week out.
[27:00.560 -> 27:05.320] I mean, I remember growing up watching you play for England, Leeds, Man United, and I think at
[27:05.320 -> 27:11.480] the sort of West Ham-Leeds period, I would have said from what I saw looking in the papers,
[27:11.480 -> 27:12.960] you enjoyed a night out, right?
[27:12.960 -> 27:13.960] I enjoyed it, yeah.
[27:13.960 -> 27:14.960] There was a lot of that.
[27:14.960 -> 27:15.960] I might have enjoyed it.
[27:15.960 -> 27:20.640] How close were you then for all that hard work from a six-year-old on that estate in
[27:20.640 -> 27:28.560] Peckham to throwing it all away by getting sort of carried along by this new found success. Everyone in their life there's a
[27:28.560 -> 27:33.080] moment where you there's a decision to be made and my moment came so you like
[27:33.080 -> 27:37.840] you say Leeds and West Ham especially the early parts of Leeds I over
[27:37.840 -> 27:40.640] indulged in the nightlife all the finer things that come with being a
[27:40.640 -> 27:49.280] professional footballer and the Euros came about. Kevin Keegan was manager and I didn't get picked. I went away that summer, holiday,
[27:49.280 -> 27:55.600] and I just vowed like this isn't happening again and I trained that summer. That's when I first
[27:55.600 -> 27:59.840] ever started training in the summer before I went back to pre-season so I was training probably for
[27:59.840 -> 28:03.360] two weeks before that on my own. So when I got back into training I was fitter than everyone
[28:03.360 -> 28:06.800] else so all of a sudden straightaway the manager's going oh that
[28:06.800 -> 28:10.400] November I've got to move to Leeds after being left out of the team broke the
[28:10.400 -> 28:14.640] British transfer record and then it just continued going escalating from there so
[28:14.640 -> 28:19.000] it's having that moment where you go right. Was it at Manchester United you
[28:19.000 -> 28:22.040] went in when you realized that everyone was coming back two weeks beforehand?
[28:22.040 -> 28:25.440] When I got to Man United it was weird because, and I'll roll you back to the
[28:25.440 -> 28:28.800] beginning of that, is I got there and I wasn't a, I was a
[28:28.800 -> 28:31.360] good professional, I thought I was a good professional and I
[28:31.360 -> 28:36.400] went to United from Leeds and I saw top professionals, not
[28:36.400 -> 28:39.760] players, top professionals, professional athletes who looked after
[28:39.760 -> 28:42.800] their bodies, who went out and had nights out, they weren't
[28:42.800 -> 28:45.000] saints, went out and had nights out when it was right.
[28:45.000 -> 28:51.000] Players that prepared for training on a daily basis properly, who recovered after training properly.
[28:51.000 -> 28:54.000] Their standards on the training pitch were up here.
[28:54.000 -> 28:59.000] And each person who was great at a certain thing that I thought, he's the best at that,
[28:59.000 -> 29:01.000] I tried to take a little bit out of their makeup.
[29:01.000 -> 29:03.000] Like, just loads of stuff like that.
[29:03.000 -> 29:07.080] And when you first come into that environment
[29:07.080 -> 29:08.960] where you think West Ham is elite
[29:08.960 -> 29:10.760] and you think Leeds is elite,
[29:10.760 -> 29:12.360] then you go into the Man United dressing room
[29:12.360 -> 29:14.160] and it is totally different.
[29:14.160 -> 29:16.560] Who lets you know what is expected
[29:16.560 -> 29:17.880] of a player in that environment?
[29:17.880 -> 29:18.800] The players.
[29:18.800 -> 29:19.620] Not the manager?
[29:19.620 -> 29:20.880] No, because it's like anyone, like a kid,
[29:20.880 -> 29:23.080] you can tell a kid all the time.
[29:23.080 -> 29:29.120] A lot of kids, until they see it, and they breathe it it and they're in it all the time and he immersed himself in
[29:29.120 -> 29:32.760] it actually I can follow that now so that image that we will have externally
[29:32.760 -> 29:36.880] of oh you go in and Sir Alex Ferguson lays down the law it was the players
[29:36.880 -> 29:40.680] letting the other players know it laid the Lord down years ago what was great
[29:40.680 -> 29:44.000] about Alex Ferguson is he allowed the leaders in the change room to run that
[29:44.000 -> 29:48.800] change room I could probably count on one hand how many times he'd come into our changing room, the training ground.
[29:48.800 -> 29:50.800] We're there every day. You run it.
[29:50.800 -> 29:56.000] How would you now describe the expectation of the Man United dressing room?
[29:56.000 -> 30:02.000] So you go in there on day one, what is expected at that period, what was expected of a Manchester United player at that time?
[30:02.000 -> 30:08.400] To expect to win. You take a trophy a season, minimum, and you wouldn't accept people just
[30:08.400 -> 30:09.800] like tossing it off in training.
[30:09.800 -> 30:11.800] What would happen if someone did?
[30:11.800 -> 30:15.680] I'd be screaming and shouting, I'd call you out, I'd embarrass you. Whether it's through
[30:15.680 -> 30:20.560] humour or straight, what are you doing, fix up, we're good. And losing a game in training
[30:20.560 -> 30:23.640] because you're messing about, are you mad? No, you're not going to ruin my day.
[30:23.640 -> 30:27.720] You came in though as a record transfer fee right? Yeah. Were
[30:27.720 -> 30:31.660] they keen to let you know that despite the fact that you were the record
[30:31.660 -> 30:34.640] signing they were the ones that were the winners and you were coming into their
[30:34.640 -> 30:37.920] environment were they keen to bring you down a peg or two? Come into it but a
[30:37.920 -> 30:43.200] steely welcome it wasn't open arms all song and dance and flowers and it was
[30:43.200 -> 30:46.580] come and join this and I had the feeling that
[30:46.580 -> 30:51.760] they believed I could make it better as well. Because obviously they had David Beckham,
[30:51.760 -> 30:56.360] Scolesy, Buttie, the Nevilles, all the England boys there who I played with in England anyway
[30:56.360 -> 31:01.920] so they knew if I was good or bad for the team. And I believe that they'd maybe told
[31:01.920 -> 31:05.480] when people have asked, is he good enough? Yes, he is. And I felt that.
[31:05.480 -> 31:07.000] So that gave me confidence.
[31:07.000 -> 31:08.600] So how did you prepare for that then?
[31:08.600 -> 31:11.440] So, and again, I love that image of you kicking a ball
[31:11.440 -> 31:14.360] around, hoping those guys in Peckham would invite you to
[31:14.360 -> 31:15.200] join in with them.
[31:15.200 -> 31:17.600] Same, it's the same, just on a different stage.
[31:17.600 -> 31:18.440] Yeah.
[31:18.440 -> 31:20.440] Like my first training session was probably the most nervous
[31:20.440 -> 31:21.280] I've ever been.
[31:21.280 -> 31:22.100] Right.
[31:22.100 -> 31:22.940] Playing football.
[31:22.940 -> 31:24.400] Because these guys are waiting to see what does
[31:24.400 -> 31:29.240] 30 million pounds look like? And what did it look like? It looked like shit at the time
[31:29.240 -> 31:34.000] because I was so nervous but I gradually improved and again my first season at
[31:34.000 -> 31:39.160] Man United we won the league but I didn't feel like I was an integral vital
[31:39.160 -> 31:42.920] member of that team they wouldn't have missed me if I didn't play I felt
[31:42.920 -> 31:48.480] If you sign for Manchester United you, you have a legend walking around Carrington or Old Trafford,
[31:48.480 -> 31:51.920] Bobby Charlton, someone like that, at what point did you think,
[31:51.920 -> 31:55.760] yeah, do you know what, I can hold my head up high now in the company of Bobby Charlton?
[31:55.760 -> 32:00.000] Until we won the Champions League, I felt kind of in awe,
[32:00.000 -> 32:04.040] not in awe was the wrong word, but I felt a little bit like I'm not at that level yet.
[32:04.040 -> 32:10.640] I can't look at Robbo, I can't look at Sir Bobby Charlton and go how you doing without
[32:10.640 -> 32:17.320] real like, I'm like you man, I don't know if you're held in higher esteem or you're
[32:17.320 -> 32:20.720] a better player than me but I've done something that I'm etching myself in the history of
[32:20.720 -> 32:29.040] this club from my little bit of, percentage that I put in. I remember reading an interview that you'd done in 2008 when there was the
[32:29.040 -> 32:33.840] the 50th anniversary of Munich and Sir Alex had brought Bobby Charlton in to
[32:33.840 -> 32:38.480] come and speak to the squad and you were the one that came out and spoke most
[32:38.480 -> 32:42.800] movingly and passionately about understanding your place in the context
[32:42.800 -> 32:45.280] of Manchester United in the history of it,
[32:45.280 -> 32:52.480] from the Babes right the way through to the best Law, Charlton and so on. Was all that part of
[32:52.480 -> 32:57.040] wanting to be in the pantheon? Yeah, and that's what scares me about Man United now. Do these
[32:57.040 -> 33:02.000] players, are they told, are they of the better culture at this club? Is there a culture that
[33:02.000 -> 33:06.960] they can buy into now? That's what scares me at Man United now., yeah we're losing, we're not winning the league, we don't
[33:06.960 -> 33:09.360] look anywhere near winning the league for the next couple of years probably,
[33:09.360 -> 33:14.080] but the biggest scare for me is like when I went to Manchester United there
[33:14.080 -> 33:17.320] was a culture, not about winning at the time, yes there was that, but the
[33:17.320 -> 33:25.520] backstory of the disaster in Munich, the Busby Babes. I knew that story, I wasn't told it.
[33:25.520 -> 33:31.280] That phrase there, culture, intrigues me. So culture is effectively about
[33:31.280 -> 33:36.160] behaviors, just non-negotiable behaviors that people buy into. Now I don't believe
[33:36.160 -> 33:39.920] you can have more than three behaviors that define a culture, so what would you
[33:39.920 -> 33:44.160] say were the three behaviors that define the culture at Manchester United that
[33:44.160 -> 33:50.080] you experienced? Training standards, so high standards, high standards in
[33:50.080 -> 33:56.760] training was a culture, work ethic and that mentality to win. The hunger, there's
[33:56.760 -> 34:01.000] a desire, there's a desire there that burns every day you can see. What happened to players that were
[34:01.000 -> 34:05.000] signed, gone and didn't have it? Get out. Really? Yeah, I hated them.
[34:05.000 -> 34:07.000] And how did you? Yeah, I hated them with a passion.
[34:07.000 -> 34:09.000] Because they were affecting your legacy. Yeah, you're not going to win.
[34:09.000 -> 34:11.000] I want to win. You're going to affect me winning.
[34:11.000 -> 34:14.000] So there will be players out there, I know there's players out there, that will say,
[34:14.000 -> 34:18.000] Rio just used to drill me all the time. He picked on me a little bit.
[34:18.000 -> 34:20.000] Berbatov was a good example, yeah.
[34:20.000 -> 34:25.400] And he had a fair amount of success in Man United when he came, but he probably could have done more.
[34:25.400 -> 34:28.760] Especially at the beginning, I remember a training session had to be stopped because
[34:28.760 -> 34:33.080] before a Champions League final it was, I think, and he didn't come across the pitch.
[34:33.080 -> 34:35.560] I had the ball on one side and he was on the other side of the pitch.
[34:35.560 -> 34:38.120] He's our centre forward, by the way, almost on the left wing.
[34:38.120 -> 34:41.400] I've got the ball and I'm waiting for him to come to help me so I can pass the ball
[34:41.400 -> 34:47.920] to him or pass it up the pitch because we were being marked out of the game deliberately in the training session so to play over
[34:47.920 -> 34:52.240] the press. He's still over there. I'm screaming, I've kicked the ball off the pitch, I'm
[34:52.240 -> 34:58.160] going mad. Get over here! In his relaxed typical burr bar, just wait. He said
[34:58.160 -> 35:01.080] Barcelona will just keep it and play and wait till the players come over there
[35:01.080 -> 35:04.040] and then play. I said we're not Barcelona, this is Man United. And you talk about
[35:04.040 -> 35:05.800] FIFA, fit in or fuck off basically.
[35:05.800 -> 35:06.800] Yeah, that's a great...
[35:06.800 -> 35:11.680] But the difficult thing about that I think is that people do need to have FIFO,
[35:11.680 -> 35:15.000] but also in a football team or in any environment,
[35:15.000 -> 35:17.480] and you know if there's business leaders listening to this podcast,
[35:17.480 -> 35:21.280] they are trying to create an environment where mavericks and leaders
[35:21.280 -> 35:27.920] and people with amazing skills can come in and add to the environment rather than coming to be crushed by it. I think that's a quite
[35:27.920 -> 35:29.520] difficult thing to get right isn't it?
[35:29.520 -> 35:31.340] It is hard because I think like for instance
[35:31.340 -> 35:36.960] Wilfried Zaha, huge talent, great individual talent and maybe it's down to
[35:36.960 -> 35:40.320] maturity that he never succeeded at Manchester United and I think he
[35:40.320 -> 35:45.880] wasn't helped by the club as well and the management at the time but he's a
[35:45.880 -> 35:49.280] player I was on to on a regular basis and he probably said it would say now
[35:49.280 -> 35:52.800] looking back flipping a rear was on to me but it was for the betterment of the
[35:52.800 -> 35:56.240] team it wasn't from they had a personal issue with him or anything like that I saw
[35:56.240 -> 35:59.720] that he could be a great asset and he needs this and that and I want to try
[35:59.720 -> 36:08.080] and put it into him and get onto him every day. You seem like you were pretty strident. If somebody's not putting the mustard, you call
[36:08.080 -> 36:13.080] them out right away or like you say, you take the piss out of them to change them. How much
[36:13.080 -> 36:15.960] room do you think they would have been in that environment for somebody to put their
[36:15.960 -> 36:21.400] arm around the shoulder and nurture somebody that wouldn't have, that maybe needed that?
[36:21.400 -> 36:22.400] No.
[36:22.400 -> 36:27.500] No. So Alex Ferguson was good at that. I remember Cristiano, we came in one for a couple of days.
[36:27.500 -> 36:28.500] Where's Cristiano?
[36:31.000 -> 36:33.000] His dad had passed away.
[36:33.000 -> 36:36.500] Shreddix Ferguson gave him, I think, a few days off, gone back to Portugal.
[36:36.500 -> 36:39.500] And I'm in there sitting thinking, fuck, that's a fucking liberty.
[36:40.500 -> 36:44.500] As bad as it is, and I look back now and think, fuck, a bit of, you've got to be a bit softer.
[36:44.500 -> 36:47.680] But at the time, I'm thinking, thinking more we need him this weekend by the
[36:47.680 -> 36:52.060] way we need to win this game big game. Can I ask you about the end of your
[36:52.060 -> 36:57.160] career then because I often find it quite strange that your career ended
[36:57.160 -> 37:02.120] with a bit of a fizzle down by leaving United in ignominious circumstances
[37:02.120 -> 37:08.320] after that day in Southampton and then going to QPR just seemed a bit of a strange move. I think that the
[37:08.320 -> 37:12.080] circumstances though there's a backstory obviously with my personal life that
[37:12.080 -> 37:18.760] remaining busy and in work was important right but the way my career ended at
[37:18.760 -> 37:23.320] Manchester United it was almost like the book wasn't closed I've not I've not
[37:23.320 -> 37:25.000] even said like bye to the fans.
[37:25.000 -> 37:28.000] There's not been a parting of the ways between us.
[37:28.000 -> 37:29.000] What happened then?
[37:29.000 -> 37:34.000] Well, you normally get an idea if you're going to get a new deal or not.
[37:34.000 -> 37:37.000] Either one way or the other, before the last day of the season.
[37:37.000 -> 37:41.000] Listen, someone comes to you, the CEO, Edward would come to you normally and go
[37:41.000 -> 37:47.500] we're not giving you a deal, or we know you're not going to sign, so look for pastures new at the end of the season.
[37:47.500 -> 37:49.040] I didn't get either of them.
[37:49.960 -> 37:52.980] Last day of the season, we played Southampton,
[37:52.980 -> 37:56.720] game finishes, and I come in a change room,
[37:56.720 -> 38:00.120] and the directors and stuff always come into the change room
[38:00.120 -> 38:02.160] home and away and just shake the players' hands.
[38:02.160 -> 38:08.220] So I reach out and Edward would come in, and then just he stood next to me Edward would or sat next to me
[38:08.220 -> 38:13.280] at that point after the game my boots all still on etc and just said listen
[38:13.280 -> 38:16.720] you know we're not going to renew your deal thanks for your services at the
[38:16.720 -> 38:20.840] club you're free to go on just speak to other clubs and what you want to do and
[38:20.840 -> 38:26.000] I was like wow is that the way it's gonna end? Why? Why like that for someone that had done as much as you had?
[38:26.000 -> 38:29.760] That was what I thought like well surely you could have given me a heads up before and so I could have
[38:29.760 -> 38:34.200] actually had a little bit of a goodbye to the fans. I did it at a later date
[38:34.200 -> 38:39.200] yeah but at the moment I was just numb I just sat there like whoa because it got
[38:39.200 -> 38:41.920] sort of so late in the season it was the last day of the season I thought well
[38:41.920 -> 38:44.840] they're probably gonna be probably a role for me here somewhere doing
[38:44.840 -> 38:45.800] something with a
[38:45.800 -> 38:49.880] playing or coaching playing or whatever or given an option to do something
[38:49.880 -> 38:53.560] because they surely would have told me before this day but it never happened
[38:53.560 -> 38:57.120] and I just felt that I deserve to be able to say bye to the to the fans to
[38:57.120 -> 39:01.360] people at the club the dinner ladies, Caf on reception but I just wasn't
[39:01.360 -> 39:05.360] afforded that kind of the time to do that and I was bitter for
[39:05.360 -> 39:08.540] a little wife I'm honest and that's what really made me start thinking like this
[39:08.540 -> 39:12.080] isn't run this place isn't being run properly this isn't the best team in the
[39:12.080 -> 39:16.720] land and in Europe in the world that I consider should be doing things and then
[39:16.720 -> 39:19.720] after that I'm seeing the way that people like other players who've done
[39:19.720 -> 39:23.560] ten or plus more years at clubs leave their club and I'm thinking wow I didn't
[39:23.560 -> 39:25.000] get this this This is mad.
[39:25.000 -> 39:28.320] Going to QPR was probably one of the best things I've done because at the time I wanted
[39:28.320 -> 39:30.240] to be a manager.
[39:30.240 -> 39:35.600] And going into management for Man United where it was a well-oiled machine for 12, 13 years,
[39:35.600 -> 39:39.720] I hadn't seen any instability really or problems.
[39:39.720 -> 39:41.720] The place just run itself with its eyes closed.
[39:41.720 -> 39:48.760] Foggy could have gone away for a couple of days, no one would have noticed, mainly, but got to QPR and I saw a lot of how it
[39:48.760 -> 39:52.200] shouldn't be run, how things shouldn't be done. What was wrong then? How shouldn't
[39:52.200 -> 39:55.760] it be done? What did you learn there? Communication from the top to the
[39:55.760 -> 39:59.640] bottom of the place, no one communicated, no one was singing from the same hymn
[39:59.640 -> 40:03.400] sheet, whether it's to coaching staff and players, players didn't believe in the
[40:03.400 -> 40:06.800] management. I remember you telling me you were surprised that suddenly the players were talking about money.
[40:06.800 -> 40:10.400] Yeah, that simple thing like that. I've never spoke about money before in my life in a changing room, ever.
[40:10.400 -> 40:14.800] None of this like what you want. Oh, I'm on 60 grand a week.
[40:14.800 -> 40:17.600] Flipping hell, I'm going to sit here for three years, I don't care.
[40:17.600 -> 40:22.200] I'm hearing these type of conversations, I'm sitting there going, wow, what is this? This is alien to me.
[40:22.200 -> 40:27.500] That's why you are who you are. That's why you you're here that's why you've not fulfilled potential and did you tell
[40:27.500 -> 40:30.920] them that would you have those conversations?
[40:30.920 -> 40:35.200] I wanted to have their conversation because listen fortunately at Man United I was fully
[40:35.200 -> 40:40.780] invested committed to everything to win to be successful at Man United and when you
[40:40.780 -> 40:43.420] go to somewhere like QPR and you're hearing all this stuff and it's
[40:43.420 -> 40:45.960] negativity is flying about it's like how'd you become?
[40:45.960 -> 40:47.960] Committed to that. How'd you invest in that?
[40:48.360 -> 40:51.800] So you try and just pull people on the slide some of them just didn't care
[40:52.200 -> 40:56.200] So you're fighting a losing battle and so that often was a while. This is the best thing I've done coming here
[40:56.200 -> 40:58.200] It's the worst thing because I've had a nightmare of a time here
[40:58.360 -> 41:02.500] But I've seen now because I'm not gonna go in and be a manager at my United straightaway
[41:02.500 -> 41:07.960] I will come to this type of level or lower and I've seen now what it can run like because I'm not going to go in and be a manager at Man United straight away, I will come to this type of level or lower. And I've seen now what it can run like and I'm much
[41:07.960 -> 41:11.360] more aware again of what I'm going into.
[41:11.360 -> 41:14.560] And did that put you off going into management or tempt you to do that?
[41:14.560 -> 41:17.640] No, I still wanted to and obviously the situation that happened off the field with me in my
[41:17.640 -> 41:21.040] private life determined that I wasn't going to go into management and I won't go into
[41:21.040 -> 41:25.200] management. But that that wet my appetite
[41:25.200 -> 41:30.100] even more I'm filled with more I've got more weapons now I know I know what to
[41:30.100 -> 41:34.920] expect. I wonder whether what happened with your with your wife your first wife
[41:34.920 -> 41:38.360] Rebecca passing away actually means that despite all the stuff that you've done
[41:38.360 -> 41:43.520] all the things you've seen all your successes again it's something nobody
[41:43.520 -> 41:46.680] wants to go through but you're the kind of person that learns
[41:46.680 -> 41:49.720] from every opportunity or every eventuality in your life.
[41:49.720 -> 41:53.680] And that maybe this was a reminder at the right time for you
[41:53.680 -> 41:56.500] that after an amazing career, actually family
[41:56.500 -> 41:58.760] and being there now for your kids and being there with Kate,
[41:58.760 -> 42:01.020] and maybe that now becomes the most important thing
[42:01.020 -> 42:01.860] in your life.
[42:01.860 -> 42:02.840] Yeah, it is, 100%.
[42:02.840 -> 42:07.240] Listen, you wouldn't wish that on anyone.
[42:07.240 -> 42:09.160] Yeah, probably the two, three years that I had
[42:09.160 -> 42:10.320] and my mom passed away as well,
[42:10.320 -> 42:13.000] I was like, you can't, that's not on the script.
[42:13.000 -> 42:14.600] It shouldn't be on the script for anyone.
[42:14.600 -> 42:19.600] But again, I've got three kids that will be relying on me
[42:19.840 -> 42:22.520] to make sure that I stand up and I get going again.
[42:22.520 -> 42:24.480] And I can be an inspiration to them.
[42:24.480 -> 42:30.020] I can show them steps in life and be that kind of person they look to
[42:30.020 -> 42:34.240] for inspiration or for guidance or just to watch and learn.
[42:34.240 -> 42:38.280] Can I ask you on something a bit more personal then about that period of your
[42:38.280 -> 42:42.000] life that you want to set the example for your children in terms of
[42:42.000 -> 42:50.400] habits and and things like that what kind of help did you give them then in terms of processing real profound
[42:50.400 -> 42:51.900] grief like that?
[42:51.900 -> 42:55.760] I had to ask a lot of people, I had to speak to a lot of people because it's
[42:55.760 -> 42:59.840] something that I had no knowledge of, I had no understanding of it. I'd never had
[42:59.840 -> 43:05.560] grief like that before so I didn't know, I couldn't pass on information to my kids
[43:05.560 -> 43:09.600] and try and guide them without being informed so I had to ask questions that
[43:09.600 -> 43:12.560] and that's why I've done that documentary right because it was an
[43:12.560 -> 43:18.000] informative process it was therapeutic and it was lots of findings to help my
[43:18.000 -> 43:21.840] children which then would help others and what were the main lessons you
[43:21.840 -> 43:29.000] learned from that that communicate talk you alright today? I never used to say that to my kids really, it's weird.
[43:29.000 -> 43:35.120] But how are you today, is everything alright? Sit down, let's just talk about, are you missing
[43:35.120 -> 43:39.900] anyone or anything or do you miss doing anything? Is there anything that I can do to make you
[43:39.900 -> 43:44.400] feel better? What can we do, or do you want to go out with one of us? Tia, do you just
[43:44.400 -> 43:46.880] want to go out with Kate and spend time with just you and Kate?
[43:46.880 -> 43:50.440] Having them moments of communicating and making the kids part of that
[43:50.440 -> 43:55.560] understanding under that process was huge because communicating with my
[43:55.560 -> 43:58.320] children, as much as I was an unbelievable communicator in a changing room, I
[43:58.320 -> 44:01.880] weren't a great communicator emotionally or at home, I wasn't.
[44:01.880 -> 44:07.640] And again, I don't wish this to be crass because that's something deeply personal, but do you
[44:07.640 -> 44:12.080] think if you'd have had the ability to ask people that, are you okay, how are you getting
[44:12.080 -> 44:16.960] on in the dressing room, that dressing room environment could have been even stronger
[44:16.960 -> 44:17.960] or even better?
[44:17.960 -> 44:22.400] Yeah, I think I could have probably helped someone like Anderson more if I was a bit
[44:22.400 -> 44:25.320] softer. Anderson had unbelievable talent.
[44:25.320 -> 44:28.480] I've seen him play against Steven Gerrard and Cesc Fabregas in his early days. He was
[44:28.480 -> 44:33.280] unplayable, but he couldn't maintain that and there were different reasons I
[44:33.280 -> 44:37.280] weren't going to, but there were different reasons why and if I wasn't so harsh or
[44:37.280 -> 44:42.080] piss-taking with him to try and prick him to get to step out of what he was
[44:42.080 -> 44:47.400] being like and if I put my arm around him more it might have been a difference it's all a learning curve isn't it?
[44:47.400 -> 44:51.880] if I had my time again I would definitely be someone who could put my arm around someone
[44:51.880 -> 44:56.160] Talking of a learning curve we're gonna finish with just a few real quickfire
[44:56.160 -> 45:00.960] questions yep the first one is what advice would you give to a young Rio
[45:00.960 -> 45:05.440] just starting out? I enjoyed a moment more at a time but then I always
[45:05.440 -> 45:08.480] say well that would have affected me winning more then so why would I want to
[45:08.480 -> 45:13.080] do that? It's a mad game in your head. There's the winner's mentality coming through again.
[45:13.080 -> 45:18.680] Are you happy? Yeah I'm probably the happiest I've ever been.
[45:18.680 -> 45:22.880] So if anyone was listening to this and wanted to access happiness what advice
[45:22.880 -> 45:32.040] would you give them? Talk, communicate. I know it's simple. It sounds simple, but that I've become a much better communicator. I've become a better person
[45:32.040 -> 45:35.920] I've communicated more probably since I've met Kate because she's helped me do that. She's a good communicator
[45:36.320 -> 45:38.640] You always feel lighter after you feel better
[45:39.200 -> 45:44.140] Listen to have sort of what seen you go through that journey over the last five or six years to hear you sit here and say
[45:44.140 -> 45:46.580] You're the happiest you've ever been is absolutely wonderful
[45:47.440 -> 45:52.420] My final question for you is how important is legacy to you massive my biggest
[45:52.800 -> 45:57.040] Goal in life now other than family and stuff is to yes
[45:57.480 -> 46:02.640] You you played football you want to be appreciated for what you've done and respected for what you've done
[46:02.640 -> 46:07.000] But I want that again to be repeated in another life.
[46:07.000 -> 46:07.840] That's what I want.
[46:07.840 -> 46:09.920] I want to be successful in another sphere.
[46:09.920 -> 46:14.480] What's your one golden rule to live a high performance life?
[46:14.480 -> 46:18.520] To apply yourself correct every day.
[46:18.520 -> 46:21.600] Apply yourself and, it's not one, there can't be one,
[46:21.600 -> 46:24.080] and to set targets.
[46:24.080 -> 46:25.000] Thank you very much, mate.
[46:25.000 -> 46:25.840] Cheers, guys.
[46:25.840 -> 46:26.680] Really enjoyed that.
[46:26.680 -> 46:27.500] Cheers.
[46:29.760 -> 46:31.040] Damien, Jake.
[46:31.040 -> 46:33.120] What I found fascinating with that
[46:33.120 -> 46:34.520] was that he was kind of relentless
[46:34.520 -> 46:37.240] from about, probably about six years old.
[46:37.240 -> 46:39.200] This was in him, wasn't it, right from the beginning?
[46:39.200 -> 46:40.040] Yeah, very much.
[46:40.040 -> 46:46.320] I think there was so many aspects of Rio's story that really sort of resonated. The one that struck me was he was a guy Roedd yna nifer o fathau o'r stori o'r Rhio a oedd yn ymddangos.
[46:46.320 -> 46:51.560] Yr un a fydd yn fy nabod oedd yw'n ffyrddus i fynd yn ei ffyrdd ei hun.
[46:51.560 -> 46:55.960] O'r ffordd y gafodd ei wneud yn y ballet, o'r ffordd y gafodd ei chwarae gyda'r holl dynion,
[46:55.960 -> 47:01.960] o'r ffordd y gafodd ei mynd i'r Gymdeithas West Hambre a gweld Frank Lampard weithio'n anodd.
[47:01.960 -> 47:05.040] Roedd y ffordd i ddim dilyn y rhan, ond i fynd yn ei ffyrdd ei hun, a oedd yn ymddangos. Frank Lampard work hard. It was the courage not to be follow the herd but to
[47:05.040 -> 47:09.520] go his own way that really resonated there. And you know when you look back at
[47:09.520 -> 47:13.120] Rio now and the career he had and the life that he's lived you can look at the
[47:13.120 -> 47:16.840] way that he was really quite disrespectfully let go by Manchester
[47:16.840 -> 47:20.160] United in the dressing room at Southampton without a goodbye. It kind of
[47:20.160 -> 47:24.080] ended with a whimper at Queen's Park Rangers where he wasn't fit and he
[47:24.080 -> 47:28.520] wasn't playing. He then had that tragedy of losing his wife and you could reflect
[47:28.520 -> 47:32.480] on it and go oh what a sort of difficult heartbreaking end to his professional
[47:32.480 -> 47:37.120] football career but from talking to him it almost feels like that is now the
[47:37.120 -> 47:41.960] fuel for the next 20 or 30 years. He still wants his kids to be happy, he
[47:41.960 -> 47:44.480] still wants to have a loving marriage, he still wants to be a successful
[47:44.480 -> 48:06.040] businessman and entrepreneur and he kind of he feels like he hasn't yet even Mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod yn ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r ddiddorol, mae'n mynd i fod ino'r dd Cage where he then spoke about how learning to talk about feelings and being respectful
[48:06.040 -> 48:11.220] of other people's emotions could have helped some of the people within that environment
[48:11.220 -> 48:14.200] but certainly helping him on this next stage of his journey.
[48:14.200 -> 48:15.760] Facinating once again, eh?
[48:15.760 -> 48:16.760] Yeah, it's been brilliant.
[48:16.760 -> 48:21.400] Well, huge thanks to my guest today, Ria Ferdinand. Listen, if you've enjoyed this episode of
[48:21.400 -> 48:25.640] High Performance, please subscribe. I promise I'll be super grateful.
[48:25.640 -> 48:28.480] And if you're feeling really kind, I'd also love a review.
[48:28.480 -> 48:30.780] Huge thanks to Tom Griffin from Rethink Audio
[48:30.780 -> 48:31.800] for being so brilliant,
[48:31.800 -> 48:33.840] and do keep an eye across our socials
[48:33.840 -> 48:37.920] for details of the next episode and the next great guest.
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