BITESIZE #80 | Sir Clive Woodward: The Similarities Between Sport and Business

In this week’s Bitesize, we’re returning to episode 28 with Sir Clive Woodward. The head coach who led England’s rugby players to World Cup glory in Australia in 2003. 

Clive discusses the similarities between sport and business, how he approaches running a small business, why personal relationships are so crucial and much more. 

Jake takes us through an in depth look at Clive’s answers, offering some inspiring and thoughtful insight.

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In this podcast episode, Sir Clive Woodward, the former head coach of the England rugby team, draws parallels between sports and business. He emphasizes the importance of personal relationships, seeking diverse opinions, and building a strong team to achieve success.

Woodward stresses the significance of involving everyone in the team and valuing their input. He believes that creating a culture where players feel comfortable sharing their ideas, even if they may seem unconventional, leads to better decision-making and a more engaged team.

He highlights the importance of having a clear direction and communicating it effectively to the team. Woodward emphasizes that while seeking input from others is essential, the leader ultimately makes the final decision and takes responsibility for it.

Woodward emphasizes the importance of building a strong team and carefully selecting who is part of it. He suggests regularly evaluating the team's composition to ensure it aligns with evolving goals and challenges.

The discussion also touches upon the idea of "tripwires" or deliberate obstacles to assess an individual's attention to detail and problem-solving skills. Woodward emphasizes the value of such exercises in identifying dedicated and responsible individuals.

Woodward emphasizes the principle of "what you put in is what you get out," highlighting the importance of giving one's all in any endeavor. He stresses that true satisfaction comes from knowing that one has given their best, regardless of the outcome.

The podcast concludes with a reminder that success and happiness are ongoing pursuits, and that there is no single moment of ultimate achievement. Woodward encourages listeners to appreciate the journey, embrace both highs and lows, and make the most of the opportunity to be alive.

[00:00.000 -> 00:04.160] Hey friends, welcome along to another bite-sized episode of the High Performance Podcast. For
[00:04.160 -> 00:08.320] those of you who can't spare an hour or an hour and a half to listen to some of our guests every
[00:08.320 -> 00:13.360] week, this is where we revisit an old episode. We take out one point or one comment and we just talk
[00:13.360 -> 00:19.040] about it for a couple of minutes. Today we're focusing on episode 28 of the High Performance
[00:19.040 -> 00:25.120] Podcast, Sir Clive Woodward comparing sport and business. Now, before we get going, just a quick reminder
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[00:56.980 -> 01:01.840] performance podcast will always remain free so let's get to it here he is
[01:01.840 -> 01:06.840] Sir Clive Woodward on the similarities between sport and business.
[01:09.080 -> 01:11.440] You know, I think coaching a rugby team is a business.
[01:11.440 -> 01:12.880] And I was very clear about that with the players
[01:12.880 -> 01:14.440] that like a business,
[01:14.440 -> 01:16.040] you're here to deliver results through people.
[01:16.040 -> 01:16.880] And you think about it,
[01:16.880 -> 01:19.040] that's what business is about, what sport's about.
[01:19.040 -> 01:20.920] So I was there to deliver results through people.
[01:20.920 -> 01:21.760] I think what I learned to do
[01:21.760 -> 01:25.440] with my small company very much so was to kind
[01:25.440 -> 01:30.240] of listen to the team. You know, when you're a small business, you listen to everybody and I
[01:30.240 -> 01:35.600] pride myself on being a good listener. I almost pride myself at not being good at new ideas,
[01:35.600 -> 01:40.000] but when I hear a good idea, wherever it comes from, what I think I am quite good at is making
[01:40.000 -> 01:45.120] that happen. If I think that in a sporting terms, make the boat go faster, we're gonna do it.
[01:45.120 -> 01:50.960] So to a full, I want everyone in the room engaged. And some of the players was, were very enthused
[01:50.960 -> 01:55.440] about this. Some of them very unusual. They've never been asked before their opinion on things.
[01:55.440 -> 01:59.600] So I'd want to get opinions, but be very, very clear. I was there to lead. You can get all the
[01:59.600 -> 02:03.920] opinions, but I was there to say, okay, we're going to do it this way, but I want your thoughts on it.
[02:03.920 -> 02:05.360] And I think that's what you described about opening the okay, we're going to do it this way, but I want your thoughts on it. And I think that's what you described
[02:05.360 -> 02:06.200] about opening the window.
[02:06.200 -> 02:07.200] You're going to take players with you.
[02:07.200 -> 02:09.040] And I think it was quite new to them.
[02:09.040 -> 02:10.320] To me, it was kind of second nature
[02:10.320 -> 02:12.280] based on this small business I'd run.
[02:12.280 -> 02:14.040] And you want to hear other people's views
[02:14.040 -> 02:16.040] and you're always getting the players' views.
[02:16.040 -> 02:18.360] And I think also, you know, I'm still,
[02:18.360 -> 02:20.960] I was still young enough then to kind of think as a player.
[02:20.960 -> 02:23.640] I'd like to think of as a player, I'd want to play for me.
[02:23.640 -> 02:26.000] I'd be involved in it and not just be told what to do.
[02:26.000 -> 02:29.000] So that's my number one point, you've got to take players with you.
[02:29.000 -> 02:34.000] And I made it very, very clear to the players, you know, there's no such thing as a dumb idea.
[02:34.000 -> 02:37.000] If you've got an idea or thought, I want you to have the bottle to stand up,
[02:37.000 -> 02:40.000] even if you leave yourself open to ridicule from the rest of the team,
[02:40.000 -> 02:44.000] you and me are going to fall out if you've got an idea and you're going to walk out the door with it
[02:44.000 -> 02:45.640] because you're worried about
[02:45.640 -> 02:49.400] embarrassing yourself. So that was a very new culture back in 97.
[02:49.400 -> 02:51.760] It was all the players were new to being professional athletes and
[02:51.880 -> 02:55.400] to have me kind of at the front saying I think we can become the best in the world
[02:55.880 -> 02:59.800] for no other reason because we've got great players, we've got the financial resources,
[03:00.200 -> 03:03.840] there's no reason why we can't but we've got to actually start from scratch and I
[03:04.160 -> 03:08.220] need your input as well as my input but that's I think what the answer is you
[03:08.220 -> 03:11.100] but you know how you open the window you've got to take your team with you
[03:11.100 -> 03:14.260] and you every single one of them has got a role to play in this.
[03:16.660 -> 03:20.740] Now I think Clive is absolutely right of course there are some differences aren't there the big
[03:20.740 -> 03:23.780] difference is that with sport as Sir Clive was talking about there with us
[03:23.780 -> 03:27.880] you know you know whether you win or lose. Sometimes in business, the line between
[03:27.880 -> 03:32.480] the two is a little bit blurred, or sometimes it feels like a loss when you've actually
[03:32.480 -> 03:36.360] won and vice versa. Whereas in sport, a win is a win because you've got the three points
[03:36.360 -> 03:41.000] or whatever you get on the board. I think the important thing though, is that we all
[03:41.000 -> 03:48.000] must understand that life is a team sport. And let me say that again, life is a team sport.
[03:48.000 -> 03:50.000] You can't achieve anything great on your own.
[03:50.000 -> 03:52.000] And you know what, even if you could, it wouldn't feel great
[03:52.000 -> 03:55.000] because you'd have nobody to share it with.
[03:55.000 -> 03:57.000] In exactly the same way that in business,
[03:57.000 -> 03:59.000] you can't achieve greatness on your own.
[03:59.000 -> 04:02.000] You can't achieve greatness on your own in business.
[04:02.000 -> 04:04.000] And you can't do it in sport.
[04:04.000 -> 04:05.060] And you might be do it in sport.
[04:05.060 -> 04:05.900] And you might be thinking,
[04:05.900 -> 04:07.680] well, what about a tennis player that, you know,
[04:07.680 -> 04:09.720] it's an individual sport or a golfer.
[04:09.720 -> 04:12.720] Don't think for one moment that those people
[04:12.720 -> 04:16.560] are not surrounded by amazing coaches and partners
[04:16.560 -> 04:18.960] and advisors and people who pick them up
[04:18.960 -> 04:19.800] when they're feeling down
[04:19.800 -> 04:21.400] or people who keep their feet on the ground
[04:21.400 -> 04:24.360] when they're starting to lose themselves.
[04:24.360 -> 04:25.140] Life is a team
[04:25.140 -> 04:30.020] sport no matter what you do in life. And that is why you need to understand the power of
[04:30.020 -> 04:34.500] personal relationships. Don't hide behind email. Don't hide behind WhatsApp. Don't hide
[04:34.500 -> 04:41.620] behind agents. Don't hide behind PAs. Don't hide behind colleagues. It's personal relationships
[04:41.620 -> 04:50.260] and not the personal relationships that are only there when someone is valuable to you. Because you will be judged by the decisions you make and the actions and your
[04:50.260 -> 04:54.880] behaviours when that person is no longer valuable to you, but you still reach out and you still
[04:54.880 -> 05:00.360] speak to them and you still support them if they need it. Personal relationships are absolutely
[05:00.360 -> 05:07.640] vital. So we know that we win or lose as a group, whether it's business or life.
[05:07.640 -> 05:13.680] The question is, who's in the group? I've always said, and I use this phrase a lot
[05:13.680 -> 05:18.360] in my own life, there are only so many seats on the bus. And you have to really
[05:18.360 -> 05:22.760] have a very defined way of working out who's on the bus and who isn't on the
[05:22.760 -> 05:27.920] bus. Damien Hughes, Professor Damien Hughes, often talks about the to-don't list
[05:27.920 -> 05:32.840] rather than the to-do list, and I think that it's similar with people. Look at
[05:32.840 -> 05:38.200] the people who when you leave them you feel drained. Think about the people who
[05:38.200 -> 05:41.800] when you're in their company you're not in flow, you're not happy, you're not you,
[05:41.800 -> 05:46.360] you're hiding behind a mask, you're not behaving how you know, you should behave
[05:46.960 -> 05:51.200] You're not being true. You can't really tell them exactly what you think exactly what you feel
[05:51.840 -> 05:53.840] Do you need those people in your life?
[05:55.040 -> 06:02.040] Building a team is so important and it is very difficult because we will change life is in a constant state of flux
[06:02.080 -> 06:03.160] Nothing is permanent
[06:03.160 -> 06:05.720] So the people that are in your team one year
[06:05.720 -> 06:07.720] might no longer fit the next year.
[06:07.720 -> 06:09.720] People who are nowhere near your team
[06:09.720 -> 06:12.240] suddenly become vital and central to your team.
[06:12.240 -> 06:13.080] And that's cool, man,
[06:13.080 -> 06:15.440] because life is about exploration and about change,
[06:15.440 -> 06:17.040] and you can't be fixed.
[06:17.040 -> 06:19.160] You can't have 10 people around you and that's it.
[06:19.160 -> 06:21.000] And those are your people for life.
[06:21.000 -> 06:22.520] You can have like your really close mates.
[06:22.520 -> 06:24.200] I'm not saying don't have that,
[06:24.200 -> 06:28.520] but you've got to expand your circle. You've got to bring in difference of opinion. You've
[06:28.520 -> 06:33.000] got to bring in people that push you and challenge you and really ask you those deep, hard, proper
[06:33.000 -> 06:38.560] questions. And building a team is important. Often on the high performance podcast, people
[06:38.560 -> 06:43.640] talk about tripwires. Like I love the story of the rugby club who purposefully put two
[06:43.640 -> 06:45.640] addresses for people to report to
[06:45.640 -> 06:50.000] when they came for a job interview, because what they wanted to do was see which address
[06:50.000 -> 06:53.440] they went to and what they did if they went to the wrong address. Did they blame someone
[06:53.440 -> 06:57.920] else or did they take responsibility for it themselves? If they went to the wrong place,
[06:57.920 -> 07:04.160] why weren't they paying attention to detail? Putting tripwires in is absolutely fascinating.
[07:04.160 -> 07:06.560] But I think the single biggest lesson from this conversation
[07:07.480 -> 07:10.400] Whether it is sport or business or life
[07:11.600 -> 07:14.280] What you put in is what you get out. I
[07:15.720 -> 07:21.160] firmly believe that and I know that there are hard luck stories of people who've given it their all and
[07:22.040 -> 07:27.720] Things haven't delivered but what those people can't do is stop giving it their all,
[07:27.720 -> 07:30.480] because one day it will pay off.
[07:30.480 -> 07:31.360] And you know what?
[07:31.360 -> 07:33.240] Even if you don't get the rewards
[07:33.240 -> 07:35.240] that maybe you feel you're entitled to,
[07:35.240 -> 07:37.240] that sense of satisfaction that you gave it,
[07:37.240 -> 07:39.560] absolutely everything is what really matters.
[07:40.440 -> 07:42.520] That's the crucial element to this,
[07:42.520 -> 07:44.240] knowing that you gave it your all.
[07:51.200 -> 07:51.960] Because I see people all the time giving 40 or 50 or 60 percent, but then they're wanting
[07:57.060 -> 07:58.120] The rewards that the people who are giving a hundred and twenty percent every single day are getting
[08:00.120 -> 08:01.160] Those reports don't come for free
[08:05.700 -> 08:10.320] That blood that sweat those tears they've cost that something. They might have cost them their serenity, their personal relationships, their bank
[08:10.320 -> 08:15.320] balance. They might have made them unwell for a while. That stuff does not come for
[08:15.320 -> 08:26.360] free. You can't give it 50% and expect the back end to deliver 100. It doesn't happen. So I
[08:26.360 -> 08:30.160] think after today, really take a look at your group. Remember
[08:30.160 -> 08:33.760] that we win and lose as a group in sport in life in business.
[08:35.480 -> 08:38.360] Remember, it's a team sport, and just have a look at your team
[08:38.480 -> 08:42.160] and work out who's in your team. And then ask yourself really
[08:42.160 -> 08:46.400] honestly, are you giving it everything and And even ask those people around you,
[08:46.400 -> 08:48.160] do you think I'm giving it my all?
[08:48.160 -> 08:49.200] Am I determined enough?
[08:49.200 -> 08:50.040] Am I driven enough?
[08:50.040 -> 08:51.240] Am I hardworking enough?
[08:52.800 -> 08:54.360] Have I got enough self-belief?
[08:57.360 -> 08:58.680] And then if you can find your passion
[08:58.680 -> 09:00.640] and find your purpose and marry the whole thing together,
[09:00.640 -> 09:01.920] then you're onto a winner.
[09:03.140 -> 09:05.600] But please let me remind you that the people
[09:05.600 -> 09:09.280] that have joined us on High Performance, that have gone on to win World Cups and conquer
[09:09.280 -> 09:16.560] the business world and have tens of millions of pounds in the bank, they are no happier
[09:16.560 -> 09:23.340] than you or I, because it's all about the next win. It's all about the next achievement.
[09:23.340 -> 09:25.600] Don't think that you get to a moment where you have happiness in next achievement. Don't think that you get to a moment
[09:25.600 -> 09:27.400] where you have happiness in your life.
[09:27.400 -> 09:29.240] Don't think that by buying that big house
[09:29.240 -> 09:30.880] or getting that promotion or getting that new car
[09:30.880 -> 09:33.160] will suddenly make you happy.
[09:33.160 -> 09:36.080] Because all you're doing is delaying your happiness.
[09:36.080 -> 09:38.200] Life is one big long journey of exploration
[09:38.200 -> 09:40.480] with highs and lows and the good times don't last
[09:40.480 -> 09:42.560] and the bad times don't last.
[09:42.560 -> 09:46.000] But you've got to enjoy them all. You have to enjoy them all
[09:46.000 -> 09:48.000] because this is part of the journey.
[09:48.000 -> 09:50.000] And you've got a 1 in 400 trillion chance
[09:50.000 -> 09:52.000] of even being here.
[09:52.000 -> 09:54.000] So the very fact that you're listening to this episode
[09:54.000 -> 09:56.000] of the High Performance Podcast
[09:56.000 -> 09:58.000] is a fucking miracle.
[09:58.000 -> 10:00.000] It's a miracle that you're here
[10:00.000 -> 10:02.000] and that you're listening to this.
[10:02.000 -> 10:05.000] So go and make something out of your miracle.
[10:05.000 -> 10:07.000] And have a brilliant day.
[10:02.400 -> 10:06.000] here and that you're listening to this.
[10:06.000 -> 10:08.600] So go and make something out of your miracle.
[10:08.600 -> 10:09.440] Have a brilliant day.