BITESIZE #78 | Ben Francis: The values that defined the culture at Gymshark

In this week's bitesize lesson from the archive we jump back to episode 69 with the founder and CEO of leading fitness brand Gymshark, Ben Francis.

We asked Ben to define the values which he enshrines within his business. His answer was compelling, illuminating and inspiring.

For the full episode with Ben Francis - listen or watch: https://www.thehighperformancepodcast.com/podcast/benfrancis

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In this insightful conversation, Ben Francis, founder and CEO of Gymshark, shares his perspectives on leadership, feedback, and the values that define the company's culture. Francis emphasizes the importance of humility, transparency, and accessibility, both internally and externally, as core values that have contributed to Gymshark's success.

He highlights the significance of building a strong culture and uncovering the values that truly resonate with the company's identity. Francis believes that leaders should be vulnerable and open to feedback, creating an environment where mistakes are acknowledged and learning is encouraged.

When asked about identifying core values, Francis suggests reflecting on what makes the business unique and what sets it apart. He stresses that values should not be mere words but should be actively lived and embodied by the entire team.

Francis also discusses his decision to step back from the CEO role, demonstrating humility and self-awareness. He emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with brilliant individuals and building a strong team.

The podcast delves into the concept of fault versus responsibility, highlighting that while certain situations may not be our fault, it remains our responsibility to address and navigate them. Francis exemplifies this principle through his leadership approach at Gymshark.

Overall, this podcast episode offers valuable insights into leadership, feedback, and the significance of defining and living by core values in building a successful and impactful business. It encourages listeners to reflect on their own values and take responsibility for creating a positive and supportive culture within their organizations.

[00:00.000 -> 00:04.160] Hi everyone, I hope you've had a great week. Welcome along to another bite-sized episode of
[00:04.160 -> 00:10.160] the High Performance Podcast. Before we get going, just a quick reminder that we have a premium
[00:10.160 -> 00:15.040] subscription service called High Performance Plus. If you want to subscribe to High Performance Plus
[00:15.040 -> 00:19.920] then you can do and it will give you access to loads more content, me interviewing Damian,
[00:19.920 -> 00:23.920] Damian interviewing me. You'll be part of a community, you can send in your thoughts and
[00:23.920 -> 00:28.600] your questions to the High Performance team, all kinds of stuff goes on there. However,
[00:28.600 -> 00:34.000] let me also say that if you either can't afford it or don't want to be a member of our premium
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[00:40.100 -> 00:45.360] is our members club. If you want more information on that, just go to the highperformancepodcast.com
[00:45.360 -> 00:47.080] and you can join the high performance circle.
[00:47.080 -> 00:50.420] But we are fiercely defensive of the fact that this podcast
[00:50.420 -> 00:52.160] and the lessons contained within it
[00:52.160 -> 00:54.980] will always remain free to people.
[00:54.980 -> 00:58.060] And that brings me nicely to today's bite-sized episode
[00:58.060 -> 00:59.480] of the High Performance Podcast.
[00:59.480 -> 01:02.060] This is drawing on a conversation that we had
[01:02.060 -> 01:04.300] with the founder of Gymshark, Ben Francis.
[01:04.300 -> 01:06.240] This was episode 69
[01:06.240 -> 01:09.680] of the High Performance Podcast. If you want to find it, then you can go straight there.
[01:10.320 -> 01:14.320] But we've had so many conversations with leaders on this podcast, and we've thought long and hard
[01:14.320 -> 01:18.880] about leadership, about what makes the best kind of leadership. And I think myself and Professor
[01:18.880 -> 01:24.080] Damien Hughes have identified the fact that perhaps the best leaders are actually the
[01:24.080 -> 01:28.160] reluctant leaders. Maybe for too long, the people that were either being pushed to the
[01:28.160 -> 01:31.560] front or were making sure they got to the front were the ones who were the
[01:31.560 -> 01:35.120] loudest, were the ones who made their opinion heard, were the ones who to
[01:35.120 -> 01:39.680] everyone else seemed passionate and driven and keen. Well maybe the best
[01:39.680 -> 01:44.320] leaders are the leaders who are not actually the loud ones, who are actually
[01:44.320 -> 01:46.080] the reluctant leaders. Because I think people who are not actually the loud ones, who are actually the reluctant leaders.
[01:46.080 -> 01:52.240] Because I think people who are reluctant leaders end up becoming leaders based on their actions,
[01:52.240 -> 01:57.400] not based on their words, based on their track record, based on their impact on other people,
[01:57.400 -> 02:01.880] based on how they make other people feel. And I think Ben Francis is perhaps one of
[02:01.880 -> 02:06.080] those leaders. He's a brilliantly smart businessman. He's an incredibly
[02:06.080 -> 02:11.520] compassionate person. But I also think that maybe he is a reluctant leader. And when he
[02:11.520 -> 02:15.600] came on the High Performance Podcast, we spoke about a whole variety of different topics.
[02:15.600 -> 02:20.960] But we also spoke a lot about leadership and importantly, feedback. Because how can you
[02:20.960 -> 02:27.440] truly be a leader if you can't take feedback? And we get messages from so many people telling us that they're not sure
[02:27.440 -> 02:30.720] how they can start giving or receiving feedback in their workplace
[02:30.720 -> 02:33.840] because nobody gives or receives any feedback.
[02:33.840 -> 02:36.920] And the last thing that anyone in that workplace can do is make a mistake
[02:36.920 -> 02:38.760] for fear of being pilloried.
[02:38.760 -> 02:41.560] And so therefore it has to start with the leaders.
[02:41.560 -> 02:43.840] So if you're a leader and you're listening to this,
[02:43.840 -> 02:45.920] or if you work in a business
[02:45.920 -> 02:52.640] and you have direct access to the leader, you must tell them that the very first thing they can do
[02:53.280 -> 03:01.120] is be vulnerable. The very first thing they should do is ask for feedback and to ask people to point
[03:01.120 -> 03:05.480] out the areas where they're going wrong. Because as soon as that person admits that they're going wrong,
[03:06.240 -> 03:10.400] then suddenly it's very easy for the rest of the workforce to admit the same thing.
[03:11.040 -> 03:14.080] Here's today's Bite Size episode of the High Performance Podcast.
[03:16.440 -> 03:20.320] How are you then keeping the core, the DNA of Gymshark?
[03:20.680 -> 03:23.760] How are you making your voice heard still amongst all that change?
[03:24.080 -> 03:28.000] So first and foremost, when we looked at bringing in an investor on,
[03:28.000 -> 03:29.500] again going back to Cork to being the first thing,
[03:29.500 -> 03:31.500] that's the first thing that we said to every single person
[03:31.500 -> 03:35.000] when they walked through the door and we started having these conversations.
[03:35.000 -> 03:37.500] You know, we wanted to partner with the right person.
[03:37.500 -> 03:42.000] We were very, very fortunate to have the opportunity to pick between
[03:42.000 -> 03:44.000] several different brilliant firms, by the way,
[03:44.000 -> 03:46.020] like there was several brilliant, brilliant companies that we had the opportunity to pick between several different brilliant firms, by the way, like there was several brilliant, brilliant companies that we had the
[03:46.020 -> 03:47.600] opportunity to work with.
[03:47.600 -> 03:50.980] And General Atlantic were the company,
[03:50.980 -> 03:52.300] particularly the individuals that we worked with
[03:52.300 -> 03:54.220] at General Atlantic, just completely and utterly
[03:54.220 -> 03:56.420] got the Gymshark brand, got the Gymshark culture,
[03:56.420 -> 04:00.300] they realized that we're wanting to build the best brand,
[04:00.300 -> 04:02.580] and it sounds a bit odd to say, given the fact
[04:02.580 -> 04:04.340] that we've grown so quickly, but fast growth
[04:04.340 -> 04:05.360] isn't our priority, it's about building a great, great brand, given the fact that we've grown so quickly, but fast growth isn't our priority.
[04:05.360 -> 04:06.800] It's about building a great, great brand,
[04:06.800 -> 04:08.480] and they've really bought into that.
[04:08.480 -> 04:10.040] So that was really, really important
[04:10.040 -> 04:11.200] from a cultural point of view.
[04:11.200 -> 04:13.920] And I mean, I don't really think it matters too much,
[04:13.920 -> 04:16.160] but there were other companies that offered
[04:16.160 -> 04:17.900] a higher valuation on Gymshark,
[04:17.900 -> 04:19.920] but we opted not to take the higher valuation
[04:19.920 -> 04:21.520] because we wanted to focus on the company
[04:21.520 -> 04:23.600] that we felt really fitted with our values
[04:23.600 -> 04:25.720] and could help Gymshark grow in the right way.
[04:25.720 -> 04:29.400] So tell us those values then that define the culture.
[04:29.400 -> 04:31.040] So it's about being, like I said,
[04:31.040 -> 04:33.460] humble is probably the most important one
[04:33.460 -> 04:34.900] and that's really, really important to me
[04:34.900 -> 04:38.280] because I've seen people lose their humility
[04:38.280 -> 04:41.460] and from that point I think it's very much downhill.
[04:41.460 -> 04:43.260] Being truly transparent as a business
[04:43.260 -> 04:45.360] and that's both internally and that's externally,
[04:45.360 -> 04:48.840] accessible, so I guess from my point of view,
[04:48.840 -> 04:50.160] I like to think I'm quite accessible,
[04:50.160 -> 04:53.280] both to customers, community,
[04:53.280 -> 04:55.520] young business owners that maybe want, you know,
[04:55.520 -> 04:57.740] to see what might be possible in the future,
[04:57.740 -> 04:59.600] the staff, like, for example,
[04:59.600 -> 05:01.440] I wouldn't have my own office at Gymshark,
[05:01.440 -> 05:03.080] I'll perch wherever,
[05:03.080 -> 05:05.960] and that's the same for everyone, regardless of level.
[05:05.960 -> 05:08.440] So yeah, those things are really, really important to us.
[05:08.440 -> 05:11.760] And ultimately, the long-term ambition is to try
[05:11.760 -> 05:14.020] and do everything we can to build
[05:14.020 -> 05:15.240] the greatest brand possible,
[05:15.240 -> 05:16.600] unite the conditioning community,
[05:16.600 -> 05:18.480] whether you're an accountant that wants to go
[05:18.480 -> 05:20.480] to the gym once a week, or an elite athlete
[05:20.480 -> 05:23.960] that wants to run a world record 5K,
[05:23.960 -> 05:27.240] or someone that wants to deadlift silly numbers,
[05:27.240 -> 05:29.080] we want to help support you on that journey.
[05:29.080 -> 05:31.240] So tell us how you came up with those values
[05:31.240 -> 05:32.480] because I think there's a lot of people
[05:32.480 -> 05:35.840] that would listen to this that would be thinking,
[05:35.840 -> 05:38.960] okay, so how do I identify my own,
[05:38.960 -> 05:41.760] whether it's for a family or a business?
[05:41.760 -> 05:42.600] It was a weird one.
[05:42.600 -> 05:44.360] It wasn't a case of us creating the values
[05:44.360 -> 05:46.400] because we were, at the time of doing this, we were a successful business that had was a weird one. It wasn't a case of us creating the values, because we were, at the time of doing this,
[05:46.400 -> 05:47.560] we were a successful business
[05:47.560 -> 05:48.760] that had built a great culture.
[05:48.760 -> 05:50.800] It was more of a case of uncovering the things
[05:50.800 -> 05:52.480] that really make Gymshark tick.
[05:52.480 -> 05:54.120] And there was a moment where we sort of,
[05:54.120 -> 05:55.400] we were chatting to someone in the business
[05:55.400 -> 05:58.920] who'd recently joined, and they came to us and they said,
[05:58.920 -> 06:00.840] the level of transparency in this business
[06:00.840 -> 06:01.940] is like nothing I've ever known.
[06:01.940 -> 06:04.320] But again, to me, it was completely normal,
[06:04.320 -> 06:06.040] and then that's where that one came from.
[06:06.040 -> 06:08.040] Humility's so, so, so important,
[06:08.040 -> 06:10.920] whether you're myself in the leadership team,
[06:10.920 -> 06:12.640] just joined in the business,
[06:12.640 -> 06:15.600] being a part of Gymshark is a truly special place,
[06:15.600 -> 06:17.480] but equally, there is an opportunity
[06:17.480 -> 06:19.280] to become a little bit less humble.
[06:19.280 -> 06:23.080] And again, that's something that Steve's really pushed with us.
[06:23.080 -> 06:24.880] You know, one of the things that impressed me the most
[06:24.880 -> 06:27.620] about Ben was that he actually
[06:27.620 -> 06:32.200] stepped back from being the CEO of Gymshark. And I think that takes incredible bravery
[06:32.200 -> 06:37.080] and humility and self-awareness to create a business to be the founder, but then to
[06:37.080 -> 06:41.120] say, you know what, I don't think I'm ready to be the CEO. And then even more impressively
[06:41.120 -> 06:45.120] than that, to invite someone brilliant into the business. And all
[06:45.120 -> 06:48.720] too often, people are so scared of surrounding themselves with brilliance because they think
[06:48.720 -> 06:54.000] that it undermines them or points out their weaknesses. Absolutely not the case. The best
[06:54.000 -> 06:59.680] leaders are the ones who build the best teams. So I think that, you know, this is an opportunity
[06:59.680 -> 07:04.080] for you to have a think right now. I don't know where you are, out on a run, driving to work,
[07:04.080 -> 07:06.200] wherever.
[07:06.200 -> 07:10.040] Think about the values that your business has. Think about the things that your business
[07:10.040 -> 07:15.280] says it represents. And then really think, are they just words? Or are you really living
[07:15.280 -> 07:19.880] it? Because if they are only just words, then you need to help that to change. And then
[07:19.880 -> 07:23.600] you might be thinking, well, you know what, I don't have that role in the business. I'm
[07:23.600 -> 07:25.020] not the head of HR. I'm not the CEO. I'm not the COO have that role in the business. I'm not the head of HR.
[07:25.020 -> 07:26.480] I'm not the CEO.
[07:26.480 -> 07:27.880] I'm not the COO.
[07:27.880 -> 07:28.920] I'm not the MD.
[07:28.920 -> 07:30.400] I'm not on the board.
[07:30.400 -> 07:32.640] But then that brings us back to a beautiful conversation
[07:32.640 -> 07:34.040] we love having on High Performance,
[07:34.040 -> 07:36.340] which is fault versus responsibility.
[07:36.340 -> 07:37.180] You know what?
[07:37.180 -> 07:40.000] It isn't your fault if the business that you work for
[07:40.000 -> 07:42.060] doesn't have an incredible culture,
[07:43.760 -> 07:47.960] but it is your responsibility to help to change that culture.
[07:47.960 -> 07:50.280] So many things in our lives are not our fault,
[07:50.280 -> 07:52.920] but they remain our responsibility.
[07:52.920 -> 07:54.160] And I really want you to take that
[07:54.160 -> 07:55.300] into the rest of your day,
[07:55.300 -> 07:58.880] that idea of fault versus responsibility.
[07:58.880 -> 07:59.920] It's everywhere.
[07:59.920 -> 08:01.600] The global pandemic wasn't our fault,
[08:01.600 -> 08:03.860] but it was our responsibility to get through it.
[08:03.860 -> 08:06.760] A trauma that you might carry through from childhood is not your fault, but
[08:06.760 -> 08:11.360] it's still your responsibility. Maybe someone's hurt you in a relationship, not
[08:11.360 -> 08:16.560] your fault, but as hard as it sounds, it remains your responsibility. And I think
[08:16.560 -> 08:22.760] that is where Ben Francis really, really understands his business. He knows that
[08:22.760 -> 08:25.160] that business is his responsibility, even if at
[08:25.160 -> 08:31.480] times the responsibility is for him to step back and allow others to be a leader. The
[08:31.480 -> 08:34.920] amazing thing about leadership is that there are so many different ways to attack it. But
[08:34.920 -> 08:39.920] I love the way that Ben Francis attacks his business and attacks his leadership because
[08:39.920 -> 08:44.960] he does it in a really humble way. And I think that's a big reason why Gymshark is such a
[08:44.960 -> 08:49.600] brilliantly successful business and I wish them all the very best. Anyway, thank you
[08:49.600 -> 08:53.600] very much for listening to this bite-sized episode of the High Performance Podcast. Don't
[08:53.600 -> 08:57.800] forget, you can also watch all of our episodes on our YouTube channel as well. Just type
[08:57.800 -> 09:02.320] in High Performance Podcast into YouTube. And if you want to see the full conversation
[09:02.320 -> 09:07.000] with Ben Francis, just search for Ben Francis High Performance Podcast.
[09:07.000 -> 09:12.000] Have a great day, and carry on chasing your own version of high performance.