BITESIZE # 13 | Sir Clive Woodward: Creating and living by your own rules

It was a real privilege to be invited to Clive’s house and hear how the same principles he employed in his first business, he used to take a team to World Cup glory. If you haven’t listened to the full episode, click here: https://pod.fo/e/a7865

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In this podcast episode, former England rugby union team coach, Sir Clive Woodward, shares his unique approach to leadership and team management, which he successfully applied in guiding England to victory at the 2003 Rugby World Cup.

Woodward emphasizes the importance of "teamship," a concept that involves involving team members in decision-making processes and creating a sense of shared ownership and responsibility. He believes that by fostering a culture of open communication and collaboration, teams can develop a deep understanding of their goals and the strategies necessary to achieve them.

Woodward highlights the significance of establishing clear and measurable standards and expectations for team members. He stresses the need for accountability and the willingness to address underperformance promptly and constructively. By setting high standards and holding individuals accountable for their actions, teams can maintain a high level of performance and continuously improve.

Woodward also emphasizes the importance of effective communication and feedback. He believes that leaders should create an environment where team members feel comfortable sharing their ideas, concerns, and suggestions. By encouraging open dialogue and providing constructive feedback, teams can foster a culture of learning and growth.

Furthermore, Woodward discusses the significance of time management and punctuality. He believes that respecting time reflects an individual's commitment and dedication to the team. By setting clear expectations regarding punctuality and adhering to schedules, teams can create a sense of discipline and professionalism, leading to improved performance and efficiency.

Woodward's approach to leadership and team management has resonated with listeners, particularly the concept of "teamship." Many individuals have found inspiration in his emphasis on collaboration, shared responsibility, and the importance of establishing clear standards and expectations. The podcast has highlighted the value of effective communication, feedback, and time management in achieving high performance in various aspects of life.

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[02:08.880 -> 02:11.020] Hey there, welcome along to a short, sharp,
[02:11.020 -> 02:13.360] bite-sized clip from the High Performance Podcast.
[02:13.360 -> 02:16.160] This is just gonna take five or six minutes of your day
[02:16.160 -> 02:17.800] and I really hope it just gives you that boost,
[02:17.800 -> 02:20.060] that lift, a little bit of an insight
[02:20.060 -> 02:22.980] into the minds of a high-performing individual.
[02:22.980 -> 02:25.280] This week's bite- size is really interesting.
[02:25.280 -> 02:26.840] I can't wait for you to hear it.
[02:26.840 -> 02:28.360] As always, without Lotus Cars,
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[02:59.000 -> 03:00.000] Right, let's get on with it.
[03:00.000 -> 03:04.000] It's time for this week's bite-sized clip from the High Performance Podcast.
[03:04.480 -> 03:12.320] it's time for this week's bite-sized clip from the High Performance Podcast. Yeah, it's a, I call it a thing called teamship. I couldn't operate any other way than I'm
[03:12.320 -> 03:15.760] about to describe to you, but I've never read about this in a book, in a business book or
[03:15.760 -> 03:21.080] a sports book. And all it is, is if you can imagine me in front of my, you know, nine
[03:21.080 -> 03:29.080] people in my leasing company or in front of 20 players. What I used to like to do was whatever we were discussing,
[03:29.080 -> 03:31.080] I'd want them to discuss it first,
[03:31.080 -> 03:32.840] literally without me in the room.
[03:32.840 -> 03:35.080] So I'll give you an example.
[03:35.080 -> 03:36.840] This is just some of the behaviors.
[03:36.840 -> 03:39.040] Because I think the way you operate off the field of play
[03:39.040 -> 03:40.560] reflects how you operate on the field of play.
[03:40.560 -> 03:42.160] So let's say a thing called time.
[03:42.160 -> 03:44.000] I am neurotic about time.
[03:44.000 -> 03:46.520] I'm never late for anybody ever,
[03:46.520 -> 03:48.160] unless there's something massively happened out there,
[03:48.160 -> 03:50.240] I can't be on time, but I'm never late.
[03:50.240 -> 03:52.280] I think time says more about an individual
[03:52.280 -> 03:54.480] or teams of people and play anything I can think about.
[03:54.480 -> 03:56.240] So I've had this big conversation with players.
[03:56.240 -> 03:57.960] So I set the whole scene and I said, you know,
[03:57.960 -> 03:59.560] I can see Johnson looking at me.
[03:59.560 -> 04:01.320] So, you know, where's this going?
[04:01.320 -> 04:02.600] I said, well, I'm gonna leave the room now.
[04:02.600 -> 04:03.680] I want you to discuss time.
[04:03.680 -> 04:06.280] Cause I don't want to stand it for the next eight years going, guys, don't be late.
[04:06.720 -> 04:08.720] I want to just put it as absolute part of our culture.
[04:09.200 -> 04:10.040] So they kind of got it.
[04:10.080 -> 04:12.040] This is why I think Johnson was a genius.
[04:12.040 -> 04:12.680] He kind of got this.
[04:12.680 -> 04:13.880] So they had a big chat about it.
[04:14.840 -> 04:17.600] He came back to me in a bit of paper, said, you know, we get what you're saying.
[04:17.600 -> 04:21.000] So we're going to say time is 10 minutes early.
[04:21.080 -> 04:27.040] So if you call a meeting to start at nine o'clock tomorrow morning, we'll be in the room at 8.50.
[04:27.040 -> 04:28.920] And the key thing about this team shit rule, Jake,
[04:28.920 -> 04:30.900] you can only become a team shit rule
[04:30.900 -> 04:32.600] if you get a hundred percent agreement.
[04:32.600 -> 04:35.720] So it's not a case of 99% or nine out of 10.
[04:35.720 -> 04:36.800] If you get a hundred percent agreement
[04:36.800 -> 04:38.480] from the people in the room,
[04:38.480 -> 04:40.600] they then present it to you, the leader,
[04:40.600 -> 04:41.800] you can still go yes or no.
[04:41.800 -> 04:43.000] If I don't like what they come back with,
[04:43.000 -> 04:44.680] I'm not giving away any authority here.
[04:44.680 -> 04:46.500] I actually don't believe in democracy too much.
[04:46.500 -> 04:47.500] I'm in charge of this team.
[04:47.800 -> 04:49.500] But what I do want is their thoughts on this.
[04:49.500 -> 04:50.500] I want them to all agree it.
[04:53.200 -> 04:56.000] Well, Damien, we've now been going for, what, over a year.
[04:56.000 -> 04:57.700] I don't know, how many episodes have we done, Damien?
[04:57.700 -> 04:59.200] Like 50?
[04:59.200 -> 05:00.600] Coming up for nearly 50, aren't we?
[05:00.600 -> 05:01.000] Right.
[05:01.000 -> 05:06.000] So I think the word team-ship now appears on my social media
[05:06.000 -> 05:09.960] feeds more often than anyone else. I think that there are there are episodes
[05:09.960 -> 05:14.040] that people talk about more often than Sir Clive Woodward one, but I don't
[05:14.040 -> 05:19.080] think that there is a single piece of learning that gets spoken back to me if
[05:19.080 -> 05:23.880] you like more than teamship. Why do you think it resonated so strongly with so
[05:23.880 -> 05:28.160] many people? It's a brilliant question Jake. Rwy'n credu bod rhan o hynny yw oherwydd rydyn ni i gyd wedi bod yn rhan o
[05:28.160 -> 05:34.080] gŵan neu grŵp neu gymuned lle mae'n teimlo bod y rhwyliau wedi'u cymryd ar ni, mae'r standardau wedi'u
[05:34.080 -> 05:39.840] sefydlu heb y byddwn ni'n cael unrhyw ddweud hynny ac mae'n aml yn teimlo'n hyfryd neu'n anodd.
[05:39.840 -> 05:43.840] Ac rwy'n credu yr hyn y sgrifennodd Sir Clive o'n i i ni oedd sut i gael pob un
[05:43.840 -> 05:45.080] yn ysgrifennu'r rhwyliau hynny
[05:45.080 -> 05:46.740] ac yn seilio'r standardau hynny eu hunain,
[05:46.740 -> 05:49.280] er mwyn i bawb yn teimlo fel rhan o'r tîm,
[05:49.280 -> 05:52.440] maen nhw'n teimlo'n ddewis ar gyfer yr hyn rydych chi'n gweithio ar,
[05:52.440 -> 05:55.840] ac yna rydych chi'n teimlo cyfathrebu, cymunedol,
[05:55.840 -> 05:58.520] sylwedd o gyda'r holl weithio'n gilydd.
[05:58.520 -> 06:02.160] Ac rwy'n credu bod y mwyaf o'n ni wedi profi'r gwahanol o hynny,
[06:02.160 -> 06:04.520] ac yr hyn yr oedd Clive yn deall,
[06:04.520 -> 06:06.160] sut i wneud hynny a chael gwych olygaidau ar y ddŵr hwnnw. of us have experienced the opposite of that. And what Clive was almost explaining is how to do it
[06:06.160 -> 06:08.000] and get great results on the back of it.
[06:08.000 -> 06:10.520] And I'll tell you one of the things that I think
[06:10.520 -> 06:12.080] is interesting for people, right?
[06:12.080 -> 06:14.640] And this is slightly kind of off a tangent,
[06:14.640 -> 06:16.100] but nothing new there.
[06:17.040 -> 06:19.240] Obviously I've been doing live football
[06:19.240 -> 06:21.000] during the pandemic, right?
[06:21.000 -> 06:24.200] So we've been turning up to grounds, no fans, totally silent.
[06:24.200 -> 06:25.000] I mean, it's weird, Damien.
[06:25.000 -> 06:32.000] There's still like, there's still like the betting odds on the wall inside the stadiums from the game that was due to be played back in March 2020.
[06:32.000 -> 06:33.000] It's weird.
[06:33.000 -> 06:39.000] It's, yeah, it literally is like walking onto the set of a movie or something.
[06:39.000 -> 06:45.120] But what you, the big thing is we're finally hearing footballers talk to each other on the field of play.
[06:45.120 -> 06:49.760] And I assumed that there was this secret language that they were discussing that was far more
[06:49.760 -> 06:51.640] important than I could ever understand.
[06:51.640 -> 06:53.960] And I wouldn't get it and it would go over my head.
[06:53.960 -> 06:58.480] And I couldn't wait to hear it because I was like, this is going to be so enlightening.
[06:58.480 -> 07:02.120] This is going to open me up to a world of sport that I didn't even know existed because
[07:02.120 -> 07:04.200] I'm not an elite sports person.
[07:04.200 -> 07:07.880] And so the game start and all I hear is like, man on, man on, clear it,
[07:07.880 -> 07:13.120] clear it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I thought, hold on a minute, that's what I
[07:13.120 -> 07:17.400] shout when I play with my mates in the park. Like this, like, this is just what
[07:17.400 -> 07:20.520] we shout when we play Sunday League football. And the reason why I think
[07:20.520 -> 07:25.680] that's relevant is I think, I think that we all think at elite level
[07:25.680 -> 07:28.240] in life, there are secrets.
[07:28.240 -> 07:31.800] And then when you hear someone like Sir Clive Woodward talk about teamship, or when you
[07:31.800 -> 07:36.540] hear Kevin De Bruyne playing beautifully for Manchester City, but yelling the same things
[07:36.540 -> 07:40.760] that you and I would yell if we were playing in the park, you realise that there are no
[07:40.760 -> 07:42.020] secrets.
[07:42.020 -> 07:44.280] And I think that that is the power for people.
[07:44.280 -> 07:46.700] Their kind of, their mind is opened up to the fact
[07:46.700 -> 07:49.400] that you can be winning a World Cup winning a Premier League,
[07:49.400 -> 07:54.700] whatever, but you're basically operating to the same set
[07:54.700 -> 07:56.700] of rules that everyone is operating at.
[07:56.700 -> 07:58.400] So we can therefore all get there.
[07:58.400 -> 08:01.000] We can all be high-performance because there's no secret.
[08:01.000 -> 08:03.100] I think that's a really powerful point you're making Jake.
[08:03.100 -> 08:08.160] And I think that's been a theme of all of the podcast series that we've done. nid yw'n ymwneud â'r rhan fwyaf o'r pwynt rydych chi'n ei wneud, Jake, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi bod yn thema o'r holl ffyrdd o'r seriau podcast y byddwn ni wedi'i wneud. Os ydych chi'n meddwl o'r pethau
[08:08.160 -> 08:14.160] sy'n ymddangos, dweud Jonny Wilkinson yn siarad am y penderfyniadau a'r anxiaeth byth
[08:14.160 -> 08:18.480] y gafodd ei gael cyn i'w gynhaladu, pab ddim oedd y rhain o'r fflwyr yn y stwyr
[08:18.480 -> 08:23.440] cyn i chi ddod â'r test neu'r test yn ystod y byddwch chi'n mynd i gynhaladu
[08:23.440 -> 08:25.520] rai cymdeithasau. Ac rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n
[08:25.520 -> 08:30.320] unig yn iawn i gyd yn gwybod bod plaid rugby elit yn angen cael ei ddweud am
[08:31.120 -> 08:34.560] ystod y cyfnodau o gael amser, fel y sgrifennodd Clive ar y clip hon,
[08:35.200 -> 08:38.320] mae'n hyderus, oherwydd rwy'n siŵr ein bod ni i gyd wedi teimlo'r hyderus o rywun
[08:38.320 -> 08:42.880] na ddim yn cydnabod amser, dim ond yn dangos pan mae'n teimlo fel hyn, ac i'r blynedd i ddweud
[08:42.880 -> 08:48.580] y bydd y pêl fwyaf o'r tîm yn gynnal y math o d that the best teams nail that kind of behaviour with his Lombardi time
[08:48.580 -> 08:50.800] is, as you say, really reassuring.
[08:50.800 -> 08:52.580] Yeah, I think you're right.
[08:52.580 -> 08:54.980] And it just is a reminder that no matter what we do,
[08:54.980 -> 08:58.000] wherever we are, we're basically all on the same journey
[08:58.000 -> 09:00.680] here and we can all employ the same mindsets,
[09:00.680 -> 09:02.360] the same thinking and the same rules
[09:02.360 -> 09:04.800] to have a high performance life.
[09:04.800 -> 09:06.200] Damien, mate, Thanks so much as always
[09:06.200 -> 09:10.860] I love these little bite-sized episodes and I know that people find them really informative as well. No, I do
[09:10.860 -> 09:14.860] I think they're really great reminders of some of the fantastic treasure
[09:15.380 -> 09:18.180] chest of interviews that we've started to acquire and
[09:18.480 -> 09:21.980] Talking of that treasure chest if having listened to this episode you think well
[09:21.980 -> 09:25.720] I need I need a bit more from the High Performance Podcast. As we've said on this clip,
[09:25.720 -> 09:28.500] we have got the best part of 50 episodes
[09:28.500 -> 09:31.240] for you to go back, listen to, and learn from.
[09:31.240 -> 09:32.760] I would just suggest you go right back
[09:32.760 -> 09:35.920] to episode one, series one, and work your way through
[09:35.920 -> 09:38.800] because there is something from every single episode.
[09:38.800 -> 09:40.040] Of course, big thanks to all of you
[09:40.040 -> 09:42.640] for getting involved in the High Performance Podcast.
[09:42.640 -> 09:44.560] Big thanks as well to Will, to Hannah,
[09:44.560 -> 09:50.720] for Finn Ryan from Rethink Audio for his hard work and don't forget to check back soon for more inspiration
[09:50.720 -> 09:52.320] from the High Performance Podcast.
[09:55.680 -> 10:00.000] Before we go, just a big thanks to Lotus Cars, a reminder that without them there is no High
[10:00.000 -> 10:04.720] Performance Podcast, they're our founding partner and you can check them out on social media
[10:04.720 -> 10:05.840] at Lotus Cars.
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