Drawing On Adrian Newey's Experience

On this episode of Talking Bull we sit down with F1 maestro Adrian Newey to talk title charges, 2022 regs and his unwavering passion for engineering and design. Plus Max and Checo answer your questions as we sign off for the summer break.

In this episode of Talking Bull, Steve Nash engages in a captivating conversation with Adrian Newey, the legendary Formula One designer, to gain insights into Red Bull's resurgence as a championship contender. Newey shares his thoughts on the team's performance, the challenges of the new regulations, and the unique qualities of driver Max Verstappen.

**Adrian Newey's Interview:**

1. **Reflection on Red Bull's Performance:**

- Newey acknowledges the recent setbacks in Austria, but emphasizes the team's resilience and determination to stay competitive.
- He highlights the significance of maintaining focus and pushing forward despite the challenges.

2. **Experience in Previous Title Contests:**

- Newey draws upon his experiences in previous championship battles to emphasize the importance of stability and resilience within the team.
- He believes that these qualities have helped Red Bull navigate the ups and downs of the season.

3. **Assessing the 2021 Car:**

- Newey explains the strategic decisions made during the off-season, including token allocation and aerodynamic optimizations.
- He credits the team's strong start to the season to these calculated improvements.

4. **Working with Max Verstappen and Sergio Perez:**

- Newey acknowledges the significant influence of drivers in providing feedback and shaping car development.
- He praises Max Verstappen's ability to communicate his needs and Sergio Perez's fresh perspective as a newcomer to the team.

5. **Balancing Current Development with Future Regulations:**

- Newey discusses the challenges of juggling the 2021 car's development with the upcoming major regulation changes in 2022.
- He emphasizes the need to strike a delicate balance between the two.

6. **Embracing New Technologies and Design Tools:**

- Newey reflects on his transition from traditional drawing boards to CAD systems and his openness to adapting to new technologies.
- He explains the advantages of digital tools in facilitating design and communication.

7. **Inspiration and Passion for Design:**

- Newey attributes his passion for design to his father's influence and his early experiences with scale models and karting.
- He emphasizes the importance of practice and dedication in honing one's design skills.

8. **Encouraging Young Talent at Red Bull:**

- Newey expresses his enthusiasm for nurturing young talent within the Red Bull team.
- He believes in providing opportunities for individuals to learn and grow, mirroring his own early experiences in the sport.

9. **Collaboration with Aston Martin on the Valkyrie:**

- Newey shares his excitement about working on the Valkyrie project, a road car that allowed him to explore his passion for automotive design beyond Formula One.
- He highlights the cultural differences between racing teams and manufacturers in terms of risk-taking and timelines.

10. **Honda's Impact on Red Bull's Performance:**

- Newey credits Honda's renewed commitment and energy as a significant factor in Red Bull's resurgence.
- He emphasizes the importance of having a partner that shares the team's passion and dedication to performance.

11. **Handling Scrutiny and Allegations from Competitors:**

- Newey acknowledges the scrutiny and allegations that arise when a team is performing well.
- He views these as a form of compliment and a testament to the team's innovative approach.

12. **Max Verstappen's Qualities as a Driver:**

- Newey praises Max Verstappen's steely grit, exceptional driving ability, and ability to adapt to different car characteristics.
- He also highlights Verstappen's maturity and resilience in overcoming adversity.

13. **Summer Break Plans:**

- Newey intends to spend the summer break with his family, taking some time to unwind and recharge before the second half of the season.

## Personal Insights

When asked about their favorite road cars, Verstappen expresses his admiration for the Honda NSX, while Perez remains undecided as he continues to explore different options. Both drivers emphasize the importance of tire management, with Perez attributing his success to his frugal approach.

## Racing Experiences

Perez recalls the Baku race as the most exciting in his career, highlighting the intense pressure of having Lewis Hamilton behind him throughout the race. Verstappen echoes this sentiment, describing Baku as a particularly challenging and exhausting race.

## Future Plans

Regarding their plans after their Formula One careers, both drivers remain open-minded. Verstappen admits that his plans change frequently, while Perez has a variety of ideas but prefers to keep them flexible.

## Team Dynamics

Verstappen praises Perez as a teammate, describing him as a fast driver with a relaxed and friendly demeanor. Perez reciprocates the compliment, acknowledging Verstappen's exceptional speed and talent on the track.

## Inspirations and Motivations

When asked about their inspirations, Verstappen cites his children as his biggest motivators, while Perez draws inspiration from his family and friends in Guadalajara. Both drivers emphasize the importance of winning as their primary motivation in racing.

## Conclusion

The episode concludes with a message of gratitude to the Red Bull Racing team, recognizing their collective efforts and the positive atmosphere within the team. The hosts bid farewell to the drivers, wishing them a brilliant summer break before the resumption of the Formula One season in Belgium.

[00:00.000 -> 00:01.000] Hi there, this is Christian Horner.
[00:01.000 -> 00:02.000] You've won the Austria Grand Prix!
[00:02.000 -> 00:03.000] This is Sergio Perez.
[00:03.000 -> 00:04.000] I am Max Stepan.
[00:04.000 -> 00:05.000] You are listening to Talking Bull, the official Red Bull Racing podcast.
[00:05.000 -> 00:06.000] Oh, this feels good!
[00:06.000 -> 00:07.000] Hello and welcome to Talking Bull, the official Red Bull Racing podcast.
[00:07.000 -> 00:08.000] It's been an explosive end to the first part of the 2021 season and before we head into
[00:08.000 -> 00:09.000] the summer break, we wanted to get back to the main event of the season, which is the
[00:09.000 -> 00:10.000] Red Bull World Championship.
[00:10.000 -> 00:11.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:11.000 -> 00:12.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:12.000 -> 00:13.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:13.000 -> 00:14.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:14.000 -> 00:15.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:15.000 -> 00:16.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:16.000 -> 00:17.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:17.000 -> 00:18.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:18.000 -> 00:19.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:19.000 -> 00:20.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:20.000 -> 00:21.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:21.000 -> 00:22.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:22.000 -> 00:23.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:23.000 -> 00:24.000] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship.
[00:24.000 -> 00:25.200] We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship. We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship. We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship. We're going to be talking about the Red Bull World Championship. We're going to be talking about the Red Bull Racing podcast. It's been an explosive end to the first part of the
[00:25.200 -> 00:30.960] 2021 season and before we head into the summer break we wanted to get both Max Verstappen and
[00:30.960 -> 00:36.240] Sergio Perez on the podcast to answer your questions. First though we're lucky to work
[00:36.240 -> 00:41.920] with an absolute Formula One legend here at Red Bull, the genius behind all our cars Adrian Newey.
[00:41.920 -> 00:46.600] He doesn't often take part in interviews and Steve Nash got the chance to sit down with him
[00:46.600 -> 00:48.600] and ask all the important questions
[00:48.600 -> 00:50.320] about the season so far.
[00:50.320 -> 00:51.520] Over to you chaps.
[00:51.520 -> 00:55.960] We're 11 races into the 2021 season
[00:55.960 -> 00:58.560] and arguably within our best sort of fight
[00:58.560 -> 01:01.520] for a championship since 2013.
[01:01.520 -> 01:04.760] How does it feel to be back at the top competing?
[01:10.160 -> 01:18.960] A lot of pressure at the moment. Obviously, the last couple of races have been very painful for us. Having had that sweet spot through the triple header, then to be taken out in
[01:18.960 -> 01:30.360] two races and finish with almost zero points out of those has been painful. And it just highlights how quickly things can change really, that from everything looking
[01:30.360 -> 01:37.680] very good, particularly after the second Austria race, and a sort of decent points lead, then
[01:37.680 -> 01:40.520] two races later we're slightly behind in both.
[01:40.520 -> 01:46.880] But I think that's the nature of the tightness of the competition we're in.
[01:46.880 -> 01:51.160] We've just got to keep our heads down and keep pushing.
[01:51.160 -> 01:59.160] Does being in previous total challenges over the years, does that experience help for things
[01:59.160 -> 02:00.160] like now?
[02:00.160 -> 02:04.240] So say we hadn't been in this position before where we've been challenged and like you said
[02:04.240 -> 02:07.860] the last two races have been can be the complete opposite from
[02:07.860 -> 02:12.120] the start. Can you draw on that experience? The great thing about Red Bull is that
[02:12.120 -> 02:17.600] we've generally had very good stability amongst our workforce and if we go all
[02:17.600 -> 02:22.600] the way back to 2009 which was our first time when we were able to mount a
[02:22.600 -> 02:25.760] championship challenge then okay that particular time we we were able to mount a championship challenge, then okay that particular
[02:25.760 -> 02:32.720] time we lost out. But I think that experience and then going on to two very tight championship
[02:32.720 -> 02:40.800] battles in 2010 and 12, it kind of moulded us and helped to give us a resilience and a keep going.
[02:40.800 -> 02:44.960] Definitely. And if we sort of go back to the start of the season in Bahrain,
[02:44.960 -> 02:45.440] did you have
[02:45.440 -> 02:50.800] any feeling at that start that it was going to be a championship contender car or is it
[02:50.800 -> 02:55.120] very much unknown until it gets out on track? It tends to be very much unknown until it
[02:55.120 -> 03:02.640] gets out on track. We had a mid-sized regulation change over the winter in terms of some aerodynamic
[03:02.640 -> 03:05.240] restrictions around the floor and the back of the car.
[03:05.240 -> 03:11.600] Not major ones but re-optimization of the car to go with it. Then we had what is I
[03:11.600 -> 03:16.400] think being unique, I can't remember this happening before, this homologation of
[03:16.400 -> 03:21.800] the previous year's car into this season as a result of the the COVID problems of
[03:21.800 -> 03:30.200] last year. Which meant we were very limited on what we could do to the car, but there were tokens that we could spend. We decided to spend those
[03:30.200 -> 03:38.800] on the gearbox casing and that allowed us to also change the rear suspension arrangements,
[03:38.800 -> 03:46.720] which was one thing I didn't feel had worked that well on the RB16 of last year. So I think that was a decent
[03:46.720 -> 03:51.800] step forwards. Seems like we read the regulation changes on the aero reasonably
[03:51.800 -> 03:56.680] well as well. So when we got testing in Bahrain, instantly they both drive, well
[03:56.680 -> 04:00.520] the Czech hadn't driven the car of course before, but Max was very complimentary of
[04:00.520 -> 04:04.660] the car and felt it was a good step forwards on last year's car. So coming out of the
[04:04.660 -> 04:09.240] Bahrain test we felt we had a competitive package, but of course you
[04:09.240 -> 04:13.360] never know where exactly that's going to be.
[04:13.360 -> 04:16.840] From winter testing you don't know what engine modes people are running, what fuel loads
[04:16.840 -> 04:18.560] and so on and so forth.
[04:18.560 -> 04:24.000] An endless minefield trying to understand how competitive you really are in pre-season.
[04:24.000 -> 04:28.840] But yeah, Bahrain race, I mean we we didn't win it, but we showed we were certainly competitive
[04:28.840 -> 04:30.840] and it's been nip and tuck since then.
[04:30.840 -> 04:35.960] And I know you said the areas of the car you sort of stamped the tokens on, which you felt
[04:35.960 -> 04:37.880] probably have made a massive upgrade.
[04:37.880 -> 04:42.080] Are they the things that have made the car stronger this year than last year?
[04:42.080 -> 04:45.040] Yes, I think last year, at the start of the year, there were
[04:45.040 -> 04:50.280] some things on the car that we, in truth, didn't fully understand in terms of the changes
[04:50.280 -> 04:58.160] between the RB15 of 2019 and the 16-20. It just shows, even though we have our wind tunnel
[04:58.160 -> 05:03.440] programme, all our simulation and so forth, there are still things we don't fully understand
[05:03.440 -> 05:05.160] and can trip you up and that's
[05:05.160 -> 05:10.360] exactly what happened. So it took us a bit of time to understand and get on top of those.
[05:10.360 -> 05:15.320] But as is so often the case when those things happen, then you actually learn things that
[05:15.320 -> 05:19.280] perhaps you wouldn't have done otherwise. It's almost sometimes you can learn more from
[05:19.280 -> 05:24.280] mistakes than you can from the good things. So I think that stood us in good stead for
[05:24.280 -> 05:25.160] what we did over
[05:25.160 -> 05:27.600] the winter and where we are now.
[05:27.600 -> 05:32.840] How closely do you work with Max and Checo? I guess Max more at the start of the year
[05:32.840 -> 05:37.640] but throughout the season do they have a close relationship with you and is it important
[05:37.640 -> 05:41.760] that they do? Do you listen to their feedback and I guess basically how much of an influence
[05:41.760 -> 05:50.780] can they have on a car during a season? Well first of all when you say me I mean I think it's all the senior guys, but yes
[05:50.780 -> 05:57.540] they have a big influence. I think the fact is that all the data we measure on
[05:57.540 -> 06:03.060] the car with the hundreds of sensors we have for aerodynamics, vehicle
[06:03.060 -> 06:10.320] aerodynamics etc, they kind of tell you what the car is doing, but it's the driver that's much better at telling you why it's doing it.
[06:10.320 -> 06:16.080] And it's then a matter of trying to marry the driver's comments to the sensors. And I think
[06:16.080 -> 06:22.000] that's one of the fascinating bits of the sport is that trying to factor in the human input into
[06:22.000 -> 06:25.000] what's otherwise a data-driven exercise.
[06:25.000 -> 06:30.480] So yes, their comments are very important and having Sergio joining us this year with
[06:30.480 -> 06:38.600] his experience from other teams was also very useful because it's not since we had Mark
[06:38.600 -> 06:44.560] and DC that we've had drivers that have not come through the Red Bull program.
[06:44.560 -> 06:45.000] So having
[06:45.000 -> 06:50.800] somebody who's had experience at other teams just gives different perspective and input
[06:50.800 -> 06:52.360] to what we have otherwise.
[06:52.360 -> 06:56.720] I hadn't really thought of that and I guess they can see from a different point of view
[06:56.720 -> 07:06.360] areas, can't they, and feed that back in. With the second half of the season it's incredibly busy, you've got almost triple header upon
[07:06.360 -> 07:09.640] triple header upon triple header.
[07:09.640 -> 07:16.640] Does that affect making upgrades to the car, making tweaks for good or for bad I guess?
[07:16.640 -> 07:20.960] How much does a busy second half of the season allow you to make those changes?
[07:20.960 -> 07:26.960] A busy second half of the season is obviously a huge load on the race team itself in
[07:26.960 -> 07:32.240] terms of the travel and time away from home and so forth and it's a strain on the factory in terms
[07:32.240 -> 07:37.200] of consumption of parts. I mean obviously the last two races has also been a heavy drain on
[07:37.200 -> 07:42.160] the factory because of the amount of accident damage we've now got to contend with but in terms
[07:42.160 -> 07:45.920] of the kind of development of the car, that's not,
[07:45.920 -> 07:50.920] the number of races doesn't particularly change it. The big balancing act we've got now is
[07:50.920 -> 07:55.940] we've got this huge regulation change for next season. I would say the biggest single
[07:55.940 -> 08:01.440] regulation change we've had since the old Grand Effect Venturi cars were banned at the
[08:01.440 -> 08:06.880] end of, I think, 1982. So it really is an enormous change in
[08:06.880 -> 08:10.960] every sense of the word. The only thing that really stays the same is the power unit, everything else
[08:10.960 -> 08:15.760] is different. And how are you feeling about that, I guess, that new sort of challenge for next year?
[08:15.760 -> 08:28.220] Well, at the moment, it's kind of, we now have this balancing act, as do all teams of course, of trying to keep developing this year's car because hopefully
[08:28.220 -> 08:33.800] we have a shot at the championship, or certainly we do at the moment, and yet at the same time
[08:33.800 -> 08:37.600] we can't just concentrate on that and ignore next year's.
[08:37.600 -> 08:44.560] So we're doing our best to juggle those two balls whilst of course also coping with the
[08:44.560 -> 08:46.280] latest cost cut which as
[08:46.280 -> 08:50.000] everybody knows has meant unfortunately we've had to shrink the size of the team
[08:50.000 -> 08:53.960] in certain areas. With these sort of new regs and it offers a whole new sort of
[08:53.960 -> 09:00.280] set of I guess challenges or for the sport at least a new era and we can sort
[09:00.280 -> 09:05.040] of continue to to get in that new high-tech era. I can see your
[09:05.040 -> 09:09.000] drawing board behind you and I know you still sort of love to sketch and design
[09:09.000 -> 09:13.760] whether it's here at the factory. Would you, would anything ever stop you from
[09:13.760 -> 09:18.880] using that as we move forward or is that for you still the sort of bread and
[09:18.880 -> 09:28.520] butter you go back to that even when the sport tries to go in a completely new direction I guess. I'm nearly showing my age and still using a drawing board.
[09:28.520 -> 09:31.520] No, not at all, not at all.
[09:31.520 -> 09:35.840] And I'm also going to show my age by not being flexible enough to change away from it now.
[09:35.840 -> 09:38.120] I mean, I'm asked this question a lot.
[09:38.120 -> 09:42.120] To me, it's whether you use a drawing board or a CAD system,
[09:42.120 -> 09:46.680] both are ways of taking kind taking what's in your head and
[09:46.680 -> 09:50.920] putting it down in a medium which can then be, in my case, communicated to others more
[09:50.920 -> 09:56.920] than anything. Obviously, when it actually comes to the detail design and manufacture
[09:56.920 -> 10:03.120] of the components, then everything now is made by computer-aided machinery, so it has
[10:03.120 -> 10:06.120] to go onto the CAD system and so it's
[10:06.120 -> 10:11.160] only kind of perhaps a very few people if they wanted to could use a drawing
[10:11.160 -> 10:14.760] board because we have to then have a bunch of people that can translate
[10:14.760 -> 10:18.360] those drawings and put them onto the CAD system. In my case if it's an
[10:18.360 -> 10:22.360] aerodynamic drawing for instance then that still has to be turned into a set
[10:22.360 -> 10:25.360] of surfaces to go through CFD and then if
[10:25.360 -> 10:29.960] that looks promising onto wind tunnel model components. But for me it's just a
[10:29.960 -> 10:34.480] language, it's the language I grew up on and it's the language on, it's my first
[10:34.480 -> 10:38.760] language if you like, so I think if I now learn to use a CAD system it will always
[10:38.760 -> 10:43.640] be my second language and I'd be slow on it but of course for the people that are
[10:43.640 -> 10:46.160] of a younger generation than myself,
[10:46.160 -> 10:47.640] then it would be the other way around.
[10:47.640 -> 10:48.480] No, definitely.
[10:48.480 -> 10:51.080] And as we're sort of on the topic of the note-taking,
[10:51.080 -> 10:52.440] the drawing, on the grid,
[10:52.440 -> 10:55.080] we often see you with your red notebook,
[10:55.080 -> 10:56.240] sort of walking around,
[10:56.240 -> 10:57.280] and are you able to tell us
[10:57.280 -> 10:59.000] sort of what the story behind that is?
[10:59.000 -> 11:01.040] And is it looking at the competitors
[11:01.040 -> 11:03.200] and seeing what areas might be of interest,
[11:03.200 -> 11:05.200] because it's the only sort of time you do it? It's a combination of, I guess, mainly looking at the competitors and seeing what areas might be of interest, because it's the only sort of time you do it?
[11:05.200 -> 11:08.320] It's a combination of, I guess, mainly looking at competitors.
[11:08.320 -> 11:13.560] And of course, all the teams now have their own photographer,
[11:13.560 -> 11:17.920] and so he gets hundreds of photos of our competitors each weekend.
[11:17.920 -> 11:20.160] But I still quite like looking at the cars,
[11:20.160 -> 11:23.520] because you can then walk around them and see them in 3D,
[11:23.520 -> 11:28.320] rather than, obviously, limitations of the photograph. And it's, I suppose, a little bit of laziness that I don't
[11:28.320 -> 11:34.000] have the time to spend a lot of time endlessly sitting at photographs of competitors,
[11:34.000 -> 11:39.840] easy just to walk around and see which bits catch my attention. And that can really be anything.
[11:39.840 -> 11:44.400] Indeed, when the car's in the garage, I spend quite a lot of time just looking at our own car.
[11:44.400 -> 11:47.760] I think it's just trying to look at different angles,
[11:47.760 -> 11:50.280] what we're doing, what other people are doing,
[11:50.280 -> 11:52.880] and see if that sparks any ideas,
[11:52.880 -> 11:55.320] which may not necessarily be just a direct copy.
[11:55.320 -> 11:57.160] It's a kind of, why is somebody doing this?
[11:57.160 -> 11:59.920] Why is somebody doing that type of thought process?
[11:59.920 -> 12:03.120] You've obviously as well got like a massive passion
[12:03.120 -> 12:06.240] for designing and, you know and a lot of people look up
[12:06.240 -> 12:11.320] to you as a sort of idol, I'd imagine, in the role model in the engineering world.
[12:11.320 -> 12:16.000] When did you get this passion, when did it come, did you have it from a child, were you
[12:16.000 -> 12:19.360] sort of drawing cars or did it come later in life I guess?
[12:19.360 -> 12:22.560] No, it very much came as a child.
[12:22.560 -> 12:28.040] My dad was a vet, no obvious connection, but he was also a huge car enthusiast.
[12:28.040 -> 12:32.380] And he had a succession of Mini Cooper S's and then Lotus Elans.
[12:32.380 -> 12:37.400] The second one, which was built from the kit, which I think was a way of avoiding VAT in
[12:37.400 -> 12:38.400] the day.
[12:38.400 -> 12:46.920] So the second one, I was by then about 11 or so, so I helped him build it.
[12:46.920 -> 12:49.320] His passion was road cars.
[12:49.320 -> 12:52.480] For whatever reason, I think perhaps from the scale electric set that I was given, one
[12:52.480 -> 12:59.800] was about 6 or 7, and mine was much more racing cars, but design and engineering in general.
[12:59.800 -> 13:08.440] So I used to build these little Tamiya 12 scale models. And then by the age of about 11 or 12,
[13:08.440 -> 13:12.320] I got bored of kind of building other people's designs.
[13:12.320 -> 13:14.640] So I then cannibalized those models
[13:14.640 -> 13:19.080] and used my dad's workshop to start sketching cars
[13:19.080 -> 13:21.840] of my own design and then making them out of bits of metal
[13:21.840 -> 13:24.440] and fiberglass and so forth, aluminum and fiberglass.
[13:24.440 -> 13:27.000] And of course I had absolutely no idea what I was doing.
[13:27.000 -> 13:32.000] So I think it cemented my kind of interest in design.
[13:32.000 -> 13:36.000] So when I started karting when I was about 14 or 15,
[13:36.000 -> 13:42.000] then my interest, I enjoyed the driving, but my real interest was how to make the go-kart go faster.
[13:42.000 -> 13:45.040] And so I kind of rebuilt the engine and learn to weld
[13:45.040 -> 13:51.400] and make a new chassis for it and all that sort of stuff. So I think it just all came
[13:51.400 -> 13:57.520] from there. And I think where I was perhaps very lucky was although I didn't know what
[13:57.520 -> 14:03.320] I was doing, I was practicing the skill set in terms of sketching things and then making
[14:03.320 -> 14:07.200] them and trying to understand why things worked and why they didn't. So if you go back to that
[14:07.200 -> 14:11.680] sort of theory that you need to be good at something you need to spend 500 hours on it
[14:11.680 -> 14:15.800] ideally from a young age then I admittedly did exactly that.
[14:15.800 -> 14:19.680] It's really interesting and you obviously said you did a bit of go-karting.
[14:19.680 -> 14:32.000] Were you a good racer? Were you decent? Was it if you hadn the engineering side of things, do you think you could have gone very far in racing?
[14:32.000 -> 14:39.000] No, I don't really think so. In the end I only did a couple of races at Sheddington, which is my local kart track.
[14:39.000 -> 14:47.200] I decided I wanted a gearbox kart, so I was tasked with an Invidia's engine, which is an old sort of British two-stroke motorcycle engine.
[14:47.200 -> 14:53.000] And the combination of it and me were pretty hopelessly slow, but as I say, my passion
[14:53.000 -> 14:56.440] became in modifying it and trying to make it go faster.
[14:56.440 -> 15:00.680] And indeed I think succeeded in the latter, but it was still towards the back end of the
[15:00.680 -> 15:01.680] grid.
[15:01.680 -> 15:08.080] Obviously a big part of, I think, Red Bull and definitely Red Bull Racing is we see a lot of young talent
[15:08.080 -> 15:14.040] I'd say around the factory and a lot of people who are inspired to work here. Is that something
[15:14.040 -> 15:19.460] that you like about Red Bull and Red Bull Racing that we're trying to inspire you could
[15:19.460 -> 15:25.280] say the next Adrian Newey for argument's sake? we're always looking to give people that chance to
[15:25.280 -> 15:30.320] make their next big break. I was lucky when I got into the sport because in those days,
[15:31.040 -> 15:37.200] well I started in 1980 as an aerodynamicist and I was hired as a junior aerodynamicist at
[15:37.200 -> 15:41.840] a team called Fittipaldi in Formula One, which also turned out to be senior aerodynamicist.
[15:41.840 -> 15:45.040] I was the only aerodynamicist, which is kind of unbelievable
[15:45.040 -> 15:55.440] by where we are now. And typically teams had a total of five or six engineers. So you could end
[15:55.440 -> 16:02.080] up having quite a lot of responsibility quite early, which in some ways is a good thing. On
[16:02.080 -> 16:06.920] the other hand, it meant there was nobody to help you or teach you, you just have to work it out for yourself.
[16:06.920 -> 16:11.080] Fast forward to today, then we have obviously a very big team.
[16:11.080 -> 16:14.600] I think the atmosphere we have in the engineering team
[16:14.600 -> 16:18.240] is great and bringing in graduates and young talents
[16:18.240 -> 16:20.880] and seeing how they grow and mature
[16:20.880 -> 16:23.560] and how everybody kind of coaches them
[16:23.560 -> 16:26.200] so that they can get up to speed. I think
[16:26.200 -> 16:32.200] we have a really good atmosphere and structure in achieving that. And it's whilst you could
[16:32.200 -> 16:38.640] argue it's because of the size we have, we're a bit more restricted in how much or how many
[16:38.640 -> 16:43.840] areas you can become involved in. The flip side of that is that you can go into much
[16:43.840 -> 16:45.320] more detail with all these
[16:45.320 -> 16:50.160] great simulation tools and facilities that we now have, that if you go back to
[16:50.160 -> 16:55.120] the past you just didn't have those things so it could be very frustrating
[16:55.120 -> 16:59.240] because you couldn't generate the understanding that we are now able to do so.
[16:59.240 -> 17:03.920] Yeah definitely and I guess part of what's happening at the Red Bull
[17:03.920 -> 17:05.280] Technology Campus as well is Red happening at the Red Bull sort of technology campus as well
[17:05.280 -> 17:07.360] is Red Bull Advanced Technologies
[17:07.360 -> 17:10.520] and the sort of amazing work that you've done
[17:10.520 -> 17:13.120] with the working on the Aston Martin Valkyrie
[17:13.120 -> 17:17.520] was sort of working on a road car design,
[17:17.520 -> 17:20.560] something you've always wanted to do.
[17:20.560 -> 17:23.520] As I know you sort of, we sort of touched on your sort of
[17:23.520 -> 17:25.080] what you were playing and
[17:25.080 -> 17:29.120] tinkering around with when you were younger so has that road car making an
[17:29.120 -> 17:32.440] incredible road car always been at your back of the mind and finally you were
[17:32.440 -> 17:37.440] sort of allowed to let it run free with the Valkyrie? Yeah absolutely spot on there
[17:37.440 -> 17:43.360] kind of. So my dad was very much a sports car enthusiast and of course that
[17:43.360 -> 17:45.200] rubbed off whilst racing became my
[17:45.200 -> 17:50.280] passion, the road car side was also a huge interest. So when we started talking
[17:50.280 -> 17:57.480] to Aston Martin the opportunity to design a car from scratch was too good
[17:57.480 -> 18:02.560] to miss and it also helped to kind of put the seeds into the growth of
[18:02.560 -> 18:06.400] Red Bull Advanced Technology which is now starting to pick
[18:06.400 -> 18:12.400] up other great projects for the bicycle, the hypercar, lots of other exciting things happening
[18:12.400 -> 18:19.040] soon. So I think it's great to be able to have that diversity through the company and have different
[18:19.040 -> 18:25.800] interests and indeed if people then want to move around a little bit, then they can if they so wish.
[18:25.800 -> 18:29.080] I guess what are you most proud about from your work on the Valkyrie?
[18:29.080 -> 18:30.800] Are you able to tell us that?
[18:30.800 -> 18:35.560] And then also, I suppose, what was the biggest learning for if you were to work on any other
[18:35.560 -> 18:37.320] sort of future car products?
[18:37.320 -> 18:38.600] What did you take away from that?
[18:38.600 -> 18:44.480] The culture that we have within a racing team is very dynamic.
[18:44.480 -> 18:47.280] We push hard, we work to very tight time scales, but
[18:47.280 -> 18:52.800] those time scales are not movable. The first race is when it is and you can't miss it.
[18:52.800 -> 19:01.120] And we also will take a degree of risk in what we do. We obviously try to do the best
[19:01.120 -> 19:06.080] we possibly can to use all the research tools available to us to minimize that risk.
[19:06.080 -> 19:08.440] But if we think there's something that will give us
[19:08.440 -> 19:11.800] more performance, then we feel it's a manageable risk,
[19:11.800 -> 19:12.840] then we'll have a go.
[19:12.840 -> 19:16.720] And that is almost polar opposite to what the big
[19:16.720 -> 19:19.720] manufacturers do, where they have to be a bit more
[19:19.720 -> 19:22.540] risk adverse because they can't afford a failure.
[19:23.880 -> 19:26.600] They don't have such hard and fast
[19:26.600 -> 19:34.040] deadlines and because they are typically another order again bigger in size then
[19:34.040 -> 19:40.040] they can't react as quickly as we can. So it's just a cultural difference
[19:40.040 -> 19:45.640] which can be difficult to overcome. I think it's probably that across the board, isn't it?
[19:45.640 -> 19:47.240] In every sort of sense of the word,
[19:47.240 -> 19:49.440] with F1 being a very high-paced thing.
[19:49.440 -> 19:52.640] I know you drove the Valkyrie at Silverstone
[19:52.640 -> 19:55.640] and you took it up the hill at Goodwood.
[19:55.640 -> 20:00.640] How good does it feel to drive something you designed?
[20:00.640 -> 20:04.240] I suppose you can't necessarily, I'm sure you could,
[20:04.240 -> 20:06.160] but jump in the RB16B and take
[20:06.160 -> 20:10.840] it for a lap around Silverstone, it's not as doable as it is the Valkyrie.
[20:10.840 -> 20:13.680] So yeah, I guess how good was it to drive something you've designed?
[20:13.680 -> 20:19.920] I have been lucky enough to have driven Formula 1 cars before that I've been involved in.
[20:19.920 -> 20:23.760] I don't have the ability to be able to push them to their limit, but simply drive around
[20:23.760 -> 20:26.100] a lap or whatever, then I can do that.
[20:26.100 -> 20:33.740] But driving the Valkyrie is a different experience again, because it's kind of being a road car
[20:33.740 -> 20:38.580] that will then be driven by lots of other people and hopefully enjoyed by lots of people,
[20:38.580 -> 20:46.240] is very different to a Formula One car, which only has a singular purpose. A road car is a much
[20:46.240 -> 20:53.560] more multifaceted task if you like than Formula One which is all
[20:53.560 -> 20:58.360] about getting to the flag first. And sort of going back to a little bit about
[20:58.360 -> 21:02.840] Formula One as well, when Honda sort of joined us, so we're sort of keeping on
[21:02.840 -> 21:09.880] that sort of train of things, but did them joining and their energy and offering to really sort of give us a really good power
[21:09.880 -> 21:16.480] unit give you that sort of new feeling of excitement to sort of push forward within
[21:16.480 -> 21:17.480] the F1 world?
[21:17.480 -> 21:25.600] I think it gave everybody a renewed boost of energy. With Renault during the V8 era then we had a very close and tight
[21:25.600 -> 21:31.840] relationship with them and I felt we were treated completely equally with the
[21:31.840 -> 21:38.320] works team, whereas as the hybrid era kind of rolled on then the relationship
[21:38.320 -> 21:43.400] between Renault and ourselves became increasingly difficult and fractured. So
[21:43.400 -> 21:46.480] it became a difficult period where we,
[21:47.040 -> 21:52.800] in truth, knew that it was always going to be near impossible to put up a championship
[21:52.800 -> 21:58.000] challenge because we would be too far back. Whereas with Honda, with their level of
[21:58.560 -> 22:06.720] commitment and enthusiasm and progress, then that's completely different. I think that level of commitment is such an
[22:06.720 -> 22:11.760] important thing. It's not just the performance. If you can see that your partner is every
[22:11.760 -> 22:16.720] bit as passionate and pushing just as hard as you are, then you can kind of push each
[22:16.720 -> 22:21.400] other along and if one makes a mistake then you can allow for that. You can't criticise
[22:21.400 -> 22:24.440] them for it because you know they're doing everything they can.
[22:24.440 -> 22:28.900] And I guess what we see a lot in the fans and in the media as well is, we're doing so well
[22:28.900 -> 22:33.240] with Honda, so there must be something that's going on behind the scenes because you're
[22:33.240 -> 22:38.000] doing so well. And then I guess across other teams we've seen them try and pick holes with
[22:38.000 -> 22:44.440] us with the flexible rear wing. Do you see that, when someone does that, as a compliment
[22:44.440 -> 22:45.120] because you're obviously doing something right and thinking outside see that when someone does that as a compliment because you're obviously
[22:45.120 -> 22:49.440] doing something right and thinking outside the box? And does that only happen when you
[22:49.440 -> 22:50.480] are leading the way?
[22:50.480 -> 22:57.920] Certainly, it is absolutely correct that the top teams are only interested in what their
[22:57.920 -> 23:02.640] main rival is doing. They're not particularly worried about what a team near the back of
[23:02.640 -> 23:10.280] the group is doing. So if you take the recent flexible rear wing, then we were not the only team exploiting that. Alpha and I think one
[23:10.280 -> 23:14.440] other team, I can't remember which, were doing exactly the same. But of course when Mercedes
[23:14.440 -> 23:18.280] started making noise about it, they weren't worried about what Alpha were doing, they
[23:18.280 -> 23:22.640] were worried about whether we were getting benefit from it. So yes, you're right, in
[23:22.640 -> 23:28.880] a way you can take it as a form of compliment and we've been there before in the last championship battles with
[23:28.880 -> 23:34.480] Ferrari back in the sort of 212 area then there are all sorts of rows over
[23:34.480 -> 23:39.120] bodyweight flexibility as well in that time it was mainly aimed at the front
[23:39.120 -> 23:47.360] wing. So it is natural, we'll equally be taking a careful eye on what Mercedes are doing and
[23:47.360 -> 23:52.240] see if we can see anything that they are doing that we might be able to have a pop-up.
[23:52.240 -> 23:53.240] It's natural.
[23:53.240 -> 23:59.280] I know it's never particularly like the war analogy, but it is a decent analogy.
[23:59.280 -> 24:07.600] And so in the war analogy, you look at every aspect you can to improve your competitive position.
[24:07.600 -> 24:13.000] I know at the start you said that Max has been involved in incidents in the last few
[24:13.000 -> 24:19.840] races through no fault of his own, but however he still has that attitude to get back out,
[24:19.840 -> 24:24.040] fight, never gives up, just look at his car at the end of the Hungarian Grand Prix and
[24:24.040 -> 24:30.260] I think that's a true testament to him. How does he compare to other drivers and world champions
[24:30.260 -> 24:35.940] you've worked with in the past and why do you think he's got what it takes to become
[24:35.940 -> 24:36.940] a world champion?
[24:36.940 -> 24:41.020] I think the first part you alluded to there is absolutely right. He has that same steely
[24:41.020 -> 24:48.560] grit that any world champion needs to dig in and keep going in the face
[24:48.560 -> 24:53.760] of adversity. If things go wrong on a particular weekend, then put that behind you and look
[24:53.760 -> 25:00.000] forward to the next one. I think his driving ability is obviously superb, his ability to
[25:00.560 -> 25:05.620] live with what we call a neutral car, in other words a car where the rear end moves
[25:05.620 -> 25:08.080] around a little bit, is exceptional.
[25:08.080 -> 25:15.040] And he's matured into a great racer, he's really made a lot of mistakes this year, if
[25:15.040 -> 25:19.660] you include Hungary, because he's kind of semi-effectively a DNF, then he's had three
[25:19.660 -> 25:26.640] DNFs through no fault of his own, the Baku tyre blowout, Silverstone and now Hungary.
[25:26.640 -> 25:30.400] But he's kept his head, he's bounced back from all of those.
[25:30.400 -> 25:32.680] His natural speed is very clear.
[25:32.680 -> 25:36.120] So I think he's... and his feedback is also very good.
[25:36.120 -> 25:41.280] I've seen it all in terms of driver feedback, which is a huge variable.
[25:41.280 -> 25:46.120] And you get some drivers who kind of talk endlessly and kind of
[25:46.120 -> 25:51.400] start with the first stage of entry into turn one finishing the last stage of
[25:51.400 -> 25:56.200] exit of turn 20. Certainly in my case I've fallen asleep by then, I've lost
[25:56.200 -> 26:02.640] concentration. Whereas Max has I think got a very good balance of
[26:02.640 -> 26:06.440] concentrating on the key parts that he needs to make the
[26:06.440 -> 26:07.440] car go faster.
[26:07.440 -> 26:09.520] Yeah, he's got a hell of a talent, hasn't he?
[26:09.520 -> 26:11.080] Do you enjoy working with Max?
[26:11.080 -> 26:14.880] Yes, no, he's very easy to chat to.
[26:14.880 -> 26:21.200] He's got a range of interests, which I think is very important for a Formula 1 driver.
[26:21.200 -> 26:27.000] If your only interest is Formula 1, then that can almost make it too
[26:27.000 -> 26:30.760] important to you when the pressure comes on. So I think Max has got a very good balance
[26:30.760 -> 26:31.760] in that sense.
[26:31.760 -> 26:37.120] And not long after this now, we're going on summer break for a two-week F1 shutdown, which
[26:37.120 -> 26:42.600] sort of leads us lastly into the last final question now. First of all, what do you like
[26:42.600 -> 26:51.280] to do away from the racetrack and do you have any plans for the two weeks? Do you completely shut off, forget about racing, forget about
[26:51.280 -> 26:56.800] motorsport or are you still going to be there thinking about motorsport and racing or driving
[26:56.800 -> 26:57.800] yourself?
[26:57.800 -> 27:02.280] I mean, this year is a bit unusual because of all the COVID flight and travel restrictions.
[27:02.280 -> 27:06.600] But if it's a normal two-week summer break then I
[27:06.600 -> 27:12.400] usually try to get away with the family and go somewhere warm. I do tend to find that
[27:12.400 -> 27:19.440] the first few days, it takes me a few days to unwind let's say, which almost means the
[27:19.440 -> 27:23.880] first week goes quite slowly and then the second week flies by. This year because of
[27:23.880 -> 27:25.000] those travel restrictions
[27:25.000 -> 27:29.760] I've been left booking until quite late so we're going to stay in the UK and travel around
[27:29.760 -> 27:35.360] the UK a little bit and then go to Croatia for five days. I quite enjoy water skiing,
[27:35.360 -> 27:42.280] paddle boarding, that sort of thing. I tend to be a... I like beach holidays but I don't
[27:42.280 -> 27:49.760] like lying on the beach, I like to do things when I'm there. Yeah, for sure, I can completely understand that. Well, yeah, so I guess that leaves me to say,
[27:49.760 -> 27:55.520] like, thank you very much for your time and, yeah, I hope you have a good summer break and,
[27:55.520 -> 28:01.600] yeah, the second half of the season is just as exciting, but maybe a slightly better start than
[28:01.600 -> 28:08.880] it's ended for us. And, yeah, we we'll be chatting hopefully the end of the 2021 season with a lot to celebrate.
[28:08.880 -> 28:10.240] But yeah, thank you very much.
[28:10.240 -> 28:15.040] Well, thank you. And I think a big thank you to everybody at the factory who talked about me.
[28:15.040 -> 28:18.080] But we all know that this is very much the team.
[28:18.080 -> 28:24.640] And I think it's a team that certainly I feel very lucky to be working with.
[28:24.640 -> 28:25.000] I think the atmosphere is great. I feel very lucky to be working with,
[28:25.000 -> 28:27.120] I think the atmosphere is great.
[28:27.120 -> 28:28.920] The ability for people to dig deep
[28:28.920 -> 28:31.440] and push hard when they need to is fabulous.
[28:31.440 -> 28:33.800] The way people work with each other,
[28:33.800 -> 28:35.520] it really is a great team.
[28:35.520 -> 28:40.520] I've worked for primarily three Formula One teams
[28:40.840 -> 28:43.280] in terms of Williams, McClellan and here,
[28:43.280 -> 28:47.000] and Leysenhouse before that, so 14. And I
[28:47.000 -> 28:53.120] would say that despite it being probably Leysen House, I think we were about 50 or 60 people,
[28:53.120 -> 28:59.800] so it's over 10 times bigger, but it has that same great feel that Leysen House has, and
[28:59.800 -> 29:05.360] I think that's a real tribute to everybody here. So thank you and enjoy the break.
[29:05.360 -> 29:09.920] How special was that chat? Thanks for coming on Talking Bull, Adrian. You're always welcome back.
[29:09.920 -> 29:13.600] We didn't want to head into the summer break without hearing from our drivers Sergio
[29:13.600 -> 29:19.040] and Max. We got them both together to exclusively answer your questions. Over to you, chaps.
[29:19.680 -> 29:24.720] Do you help Checo understand the car? If so, how? I think it's very difficult to really
[29:24.720 -> 29:26.000] make someone understand the car.
[29:26.000 -> 29:31.000] They have to do it themselves with their race engineers and I think Cekko is doing really well at that.
[29:31.000 -> 29:33.000] Your favourite person in Red Bull Garage?
[29:33.000 -> 29:36.000] I'll say Adam, you know, he's my senior mechanic.
[29:36.000 -> 29:44.000] I'm always looking at him before I leave the garage, so between the driver and the number one mechanic there's always good connection.
[29:44.000 -> 29:46.780] What do you do when it's not race week?
[29:46.780 -> 29:50.320] Spend time at home with family, friends,
[29:50.320 -> 29:53.200] a bit of sim racing, and yeah, just relaxing as well.
[29:53.200 -> 29:54.660] Have you changed the way you drive
[29:54.660 -> 29:57.760] with the RV16B riding from Mexico?
[29:59.080 -> 30:00.240] Yes, a lot.
[30:00.240 -> 30:02.840] I just keep adapting and learning every day with it.
[30:02.840 -> 30:05.080] I think it's getting better all the time.
[30:05.080 -> 30:07.080] Which has been your most difficult race?
[30:07.080 -> 30:10.680] I don't know, I mean it's difficult to pick one out.
[30:10.680 -> 30:14.400] You know, you always have difficult moments.
[30:14.400 -> 30:16.120] I wouldn't say difficult race.
[30:16.120 -> 30:18.200] How is it to be Max Verstappen's inmate?
[30:18.200 -> 30:22.080] Hard on track, because he's obviously a very fast, talented guy.
[30:22.080 -> 30:25.400] But outside it's good fun.
[30:25.400 -> 30:29.000] You know, I enjoy the time that we spend together.
[30:29.000 -> 30:30.200] We have some good fun.
[30:30.200 -> 30:32.000] Favourite road car ever?
[30:33.800 -> 30:35.600] Difficult to really say.
[30:35.600 -> 30:38.000] I mean, at the moment I'm driving a Honda NSX
[30:38.000 -> 30:39.800] and it's an amazing road car.
[30:39.800 -> 30:43.000] How are you so good at tyre management?
[30:43.000 -> 30:46.920] I'm tight on money always, so I always try to look after it
[30:46.920 -> 30:49.720] and try to make them last as long as possible
[30:49.720 -> 30:52.560] and that has paid some dividends in Formula 1.
[30:52.560 -> 30:54.760] Favourite place for a holiday?
[30:54.760 -> 30:57.320] I don't know, I mean I'm still discovering the world
[30:57.320 -> 31:01.240] so I can't really say what is the favourite place yet.
[31:01.240 -> 31:05.480] Most exciting race in his career, in my career you mean. Baku,
[31:05.480 -> 31:10.320] Baku was pretty exciting you know having Lewis behind for the whole race was
[31:10.320 -> 31:15.360] pretty exhausted as well. When, if you win the championship how will you celebrate?
[31:15.360 -> 31:20.120] Hopefully a night I will remember but also not remember at the same time. How
[31:20.120 -> 31:25.280] has your racing style changed since your debut in 2015?
[31:28.880 -> 31:29.000] I guess it's just more experience, I think that makes the biggest difference.
[31:31.800 -> 31:32.120] What do you think about the new Formula 1 car for 2022?
[31:34.880 -> 31:38.800] I don't know what to think, but I just look forward. You know, it's a new era of the Formula 1, so we'll see what it brings.
[31:39.040 -> 31:41.760] After your F1 career, what will you do?
[31:41.760 -> 31:43.320] What will I do?
[31:43.320 -> 31:47.120] I have quite a lot of plans, but they change every year,
[31:47.120 -> 31:49.000] so I guess time will tell.
[31:49.000 -> 31:55.360] Your plans on ranking the team? Good that you remind me, but it's too early. I have
[31:55.360 -> 31:57.960] to think about it in the coming weekends.
[31:57.960 -> 32:02.840] Do you have any superstitions, either at the track or outside?
[32:02.840 -> 32:05.280] Not really, no. No superstitions.
[32:05.280 -> 32:13.960] What motivates you? Winning. Winning is everything in whatever I do I try to always be the best
[32:13.960 -> 32:17.600] at. How is it having Checo as a teammate? Having
[32:17.600 -> 32:21.120] Checo as a teammate has been great. I mean he's super nice, super relaxed and a very
[32:21.120 -> 32:30.360] fast racing driver. What do you miss from Guadalajara? My family, my friends and my normal life that I have over there. What is your
[32:30.360 -> 32:35.400] favorite movie and why? Favorite movie, Wolf of Wall Street, I think it was great
[32:35.400 -> 32:39.560] acting. Favorite car you've ever driven?
[32:40.000 -> 32:46.800] RV16B. How much Red Bull do you drink? I would say five to six cans in a race weekend for sure.
[32:46.800 -> 32:55.680] Who or what is your biggest inspiration? My kids. Favorite soup? There's only one, tomato soup.
[32:55.680 -> 33:02.080] Favorite thing about being a Red Bull driver? Getting Red Bull for free. How do you keep ahead
[33:02.080 -> 33:06.000] of pressure? What pressure? More power or more downforce?
[33:06.000 -> 33:08.000] More downforce.
[33:08.000 -> 33:10.000] What keeps you motivated? Winning.
[33:10.000 -> 33:13.000] Your favourite food? Mexican food.
[33:13.000 -> 33:16.000] Thanks for that boys. We hope you have a brilliant summer.
[33:16.000 -> 33:18.000] That's it for this edition of Talking Bull.
[33:18.000 -> 33:23.000] After an unlucky few races we still head into the break in a solid position for the next leg
[33:23.000 -> 33:26.520] and it's all to play for when we return to Belgium at the end of the month.
[33:26.760 -> 33:28.160] Until then, take care.