Is Max Verstappen’s success underestimated? | ‘He has something special’

For our latest pod, Matt Baker is joined by Dutch racing driver Giedo van der Garde and F1 content creator Tom Bellingham.

Giedo van der Garde reveals what Max Verstappen was like as a child, how much Jos Verstappen has impacted his son's career, and how the Red Bull driver’s maturity has changed his racing style throughout the years.

They also discuss if Max is happy winning unchallenged nearly every race weekend and debate whether his sim racing is helping him become a better driver.

They finish by giving their thoughts on what Max's future in F1 is and whether he would explore other series in motorsports.

# Max Verstappen: A Comprehensive Analysis of His Formula One Career

## Introduction

Max Verstappen, the Dutch racing sensation, has taken the Formula One world by storm with his exceptional talent and aggressive driving style. This comprehensive analysis delves into Verstappen's journey, from his early days in karting to his current dominance in Formula One, exploring the factors that have contributed to his remarkable success.

## Early Life and Karting Career

Verstappen's passion for racing began at an early age, influenced by his father, Jos Verstappen, a former Formula One driver. Growing up in Belgium, Verstappen started karting at the age of four and quickly displayed exceptional skills. He won numerous karting championships, including the European Championship in 2013 and the World Championship in 2014, establishing himself as one of the most promising young drivers in the world.

## Formula One Debut and Early Success

In 2015, Verstappen made his Formula One debut with Toro Rosso, becoming the youngest driver to start a Grand Prix at the age of 17. He impressed immediately with his fearless driving style and ability to overtake other cars. In 2016, he was promoted to Red Bull Racing, the senior team, and achieved his first Formula One victory at the Spanish Grand Prix, becoming the youngest driver to win a Grand Prix at the age of 18.

## Rise to Dominance

Verstappen continued to improve and mature as a driver, consistently challenging for race wins and podium finishes. In 2021, he finally clinched his first Formula One World Championship title, becoming the first Dutch driver to win the championship. He successfully defended his title in 2022, showcasing his consistency and dominance.

## Driving Style and Characteristics

Verstappen's driving style is characterized by his aggressive overtaking maneuvers, late braking, and ability to extract maximum performance from his car. He is known for his fearless approach to racing, often pushing the limits and taking risks. Verstappen's exceptional car control and ability to adapt to different track conditions make him a formidable competitor.

## Impact on Formula One

Verstappen's success and aggressive driving style have revitalized Formula One, attracting new fans and generating excitement. His rivalry with Lewis Hamilton in recent years has been one of the most intense and captivating in the history of the sport. Verstappen's dominance has also pushed other drivers and teams to improve their performance, resulting in closer and more competitive races.

## Future Prospects

At just 25 years old, Verstappen is already one of the most successful drivers in Formula One history. With two World Championships under his belt and numerous race wins, he has the potential to achieve even greater things in the years to come. As he continues to mature and gain experience, Verstappen is poised to cement his legacy as one of the greatest Formula One drivers of all time.

## Conclusion

Max Verstappen's journey from a young karting prodigy to a dominant Formula One World Champion is a testament to his exceptional talent, unwavering determination, and aggressive driving style. He has captivated fans worldwide with his fearless approach to racing and his ability to produce thrilling and unpredictable moments on the track. As Verstappen continues to push the boundaries of the sport, the future of Formula One looks incredibly promising with him at the forefront.

# Unraveling the Enigma: Max Verstappen's Dominance in Formula One

This podcast episode delves into the remarkable career and achievements of Max Verstappen, a Dutch racing sensation who has taken the Formula One world by storm. The discussion features Giedo van der Garde, a former F1 driver and close friend of Verstappen, and Tom Bellingham, a renowned F1 content creator. Together, they provide insightful perspectives on Verstappen's rise to prominence and his continued dominance in the sport.

**Verstappen's Maturation and Evolution as a Driver:**

- Giedo van der Garde sheds light on Verstappen's transformation from a fiery, aggressive young driver to a more mature and calculated racer.
- Verstappen's increased experience and understanding of the sport have led to a shift in his approach, focusing on long-term success and championship contention rather than impulsive risk-taking.
- Despite his newfound maturity, Verstappen retains his competitive spirit and determination to win, as evidenced by his impressive performances in recent races.

**Verstappen's Preference for Unchallenged Victories:**

- The discussion addresses the question of whether Verstappen prefers battling wheel-to-wheel for victories or securing comfortable wins with significant margins.
- Tom Bellingham believes that Verstappen enjoys the dominance and control that comes with leading races unchallenged, as it allows him to manage the tires and car more effectively.
- Giedo van der Garde concurs, stating that Verstappen prefers the easier path to victory, although he is prepared to engage in close battles when necessary.

**Verstappen's Sim Racing Project and Its Impact:**

- The podcast explores Verstappen's involvement in sim racing and his project to bridge the gap between virtual and real-world racing.
- Giedo van der Garde believes that sim racing can enhance a driver's skills, but it cannot fully replicate the physical and sensory experiences of driving a real race car.
- Tom Bellingham sees potential in sim racing as a talent identification tool, offering a more accessible and cost-effective alternative to traditional karting or junior series.

**Potential Challengers to Verstappen's Dominance:**

- The experts discuss the drivers who might pose a threat to Verstappen's dominance in the coming years.
- Giedo van der Garde highlights Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, and Lando Norris as potential contenders, praising their experience, speed, and talent.
- Tom Bellingham agrees with the selections but expresses skepticism about anyone beating Verstappen within the Red Bull team, given his current dominance and the team's harmonious environment.

**Verstappen's Future Beyond Formula One:**

- The conversation touches upon Verstappen's long-term plans and whether he will continue in Formula One or explore other racing series.
- Giedo van der Garde believes that Verstappen will eventually pursue other racing disciplines, such as the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Daytona 24 Hours, once he has achieved his goals in Formula One.
- Verstappen's desire to race with his father, Jos Verstappen, in the future is also mentioned.

**Recognizing Verstappen's Achievements:**

- The experts discuss the need to fully appreciate Verstappen's accomplishments, given his exceptional performances and dominance in recent seasons.
- Tom Bellingham emphasizes the significance of Verstappen's achievements, comparing them to those of Lewis Hamilton and highlighting the difficulty of maintaining such a high level of success.
- Giedo van der Garde attributes Verstappen's success to his dedication, focus, and ability to extract the maximum potential from his car.

**Expectations for Verstappen at the Italian Grand Prix:**

- The podcast concludes with predictions for Verstappen's performance at the upcoming Italian Grand Prix at Monza.
- Giedo van der Garde expresses confidence in Verstappen's ability to secure pole position and win the race, potentially extending his record-breaking streak of consecutive victories.
- Tom Bellingham acknowledges the challenge posed by Ferrari at Monza, but believes that Verstappen remains the favorite for victory, given his current form and the Red Bull team's strength.

[00:00.000 -> 00:09.040] Hello everyone, welcome to the Sky Sports F1 podcast with me, Matt Baker. I hope you're
[00:09.040 -> 00:14.440] well. Joining me to discuss all things Max Verstappen. I'm joined by former F1 driver,
[00:14.440 -> 00:19.520] Dutch broadcaster now Guido van der Garde, as well as Formula One content creator and
[00:19.520 -> 00:24.400] Max Verstappen fan Tom Bellingham. Hello to you both. Tom, I'm going to start with you
[00:24.400 -> 00:29.460] because you are joining us still in Amsterdam. You weren't supposed to be in Amsterdam today, were you?
[00:29.460 -> 00:35.980] We were not. No, we were. We've been stranded by the UK situation, but there's worse places
[00:35.980 -> 00:38.380] to be. So yeah, it's been all right.
[00:38.380 -> 00:42.080] It certainly is. There certainly is. Guido, how was your weekend? You were obviously working
[00:42.080 -> 00:46.840] for Viaplay. I'm still knackered. I have to say it was flat out.
[00:47.760 -> 00:51.120] We had like, you know, from Wednesday onwards,
[00:51.120 -> 00:52.420] we were really, really flat out
[00:52.420 -> 00:54.680] from nine o'clock in the morning actually to 10 o'clock,
[00:54.680 -> 00:57.480] and sometimes even 11 o'clock in the evening.
[00:57.480 -> 01:01.160] You know, at the moment we are working for Viaplay.
[01:01.160 -> 01:03.400] It's something really cool to do.
[01:03.400 -> 01:05.440] In Holland, the Formula One is huge at the
[01:05.440 -> 01:10.320] moment, especially with Max Verstappen. So yeah, we went with the broadcaster flat out
[01:10.320 -> 01:18.080] every day, many, many, many hours, but we got a very good feedback from the last weekend.
[01:18.080 -> 01:20.720] So everybody was happy with what we made.
[01:20.720 -> 01:24.600] Yeah. And you also, I mean, you delivered, I think, you know, one of my favourite bits
[01:24.600 -> 01:28.940] of telly for the whole weekend when you were doing the interviews after the race and you also, I mean you delivered I think, you know, one of my favourite bits of telly for the whole weekend when you were doing the interviews after the race and you
[01:28.940 -> 01:32.660] said to Alonso, you know, were you going to go after Max in those last few laps? And he
[01:32.660 -> 01:39.620] said, no, I want to leave the track. I mean, it was, I thought it was like just overall
[01:39.620 -> 01:43.460] a really good race, Guido, and I think it kind of was reflected, wasn't it, after the
[01:43.460 -> 01:45.920] race, all the drivers, I'm guessing, really enjoyed that.
[01:45.920 -> 01:49.400] It was a really challenging but good race to be a part of.
[01:49.400 -> 01:51.640] No, I think we were very, very lucky,
[01:51.640 -> 01:53.640] first of all, with the weather.
[01:53.640 -> 01:56.200] I think, you know, before the race, it was sunshine,
[01:56.200 -> 01:59.200] the grid walk was easy, everybody was relaxed,
[01:59.200 -> 02:00.920] all the people could come on,
[02:00.920 -> 02:02.840] and then suddenly in lap one, it started to rain.
[02:02.840 -> 02:04.040] Actually, what we hoped for,
[02:04.040 -> 02:09.680] because it makes the race much more entertaining than instead of Max starting first goes away and that's it.
[02:09.680 -> 02:16.960] And now with the first guys who did the early pit stops, Jacko was leading by 11 seconds,
[02:16.960 -> 02:22.720] then Max had to do the catch-up and what you said, you know, everybody loved it. Everybody was so
[02:22.720 -> 02:26.720] happy with the entertainment, everybody was happy with the race outcome.
[02:26.720 -> 02:30.800] As you said, Alonso, I think the interviews we had with him after the race,
[02:30.800 -> 02:34.080] he was smiling, Pierre was smiling, he was so happy.
[02:34.080 -> 02:38.720] I was lucky in that way that I could do the interviews and that they opened up
[02:38.720 -> 02:46.880] and that they also were telling that he was not thinking about passing Max because he could not exit the track.
[02:47.760 -> 02:54.240] It's cool to hear that and there's a lot of respect for the guys because it was not an easy race.
[02:55.600 -> 03:00.240] Tom, what did you make of the race? I was just chatting to you before about maybe F1,
[03:00.800 -> 03:04.880] the last few races, we needed that, right? After the summer break to come back with a race that
[03:04.880 -> 03:07.840] exciting, that eventful, it was brilliant, wasn't it?
[03:07.840 -> 03:12.600] Yeah, it was really good. Like Guido said, the rain fell at the perfect time, really,
[03:12.600 -> 03:17.640] because when you felt the rain in the air, I was worried, which can happen with Formula
[03:17.640 -> 03:22.440] One now, where it might rain at the start and then we get a delayed start and then,
[03:22.440 -> 03:30.680] you know, they wait for it to dry out a bit. But it was very cool to have the race start and then the rain came down and it was that challenging
[03:30.680 -> 03:36.040] moment where you have to choose, do you stay out and brave it? Do you go for the inters?
[03:36.040 -> 03:42.080] And yeah, like we said, we were due a very good race, even though we got the same outcome
[03:42.080 -> 03:47.040] and Max obviously equaling that record and it's amazing
[03:47.040 -> 03:53.760] that the race was just so entertaining and F1 fans, we needed that very much so.
[03:54.880 -> 03:58.800] Yeah definitely. So what I want to do over the course of this podcast really is use both of
[03:58.800 -> 04:02.880] your experience, obviously Tom you're a fan of, been a fan of Max and Guido you've known Max for
[04:02.880 -> 04:07.440] a long time and just try to understand what exactly what he's what he's doing at the moment
[04:07.440 -> 04:12.960] You know, he got his ninth win in a row this weekend, which is an extraordinary achievement that equaled Sebastian Vettel's record
[04:12.960 -> 04:16.820] He's going for 10 this weekend in Monza, which will be the all-time record
[04:16.820 -> 04:19.020] So I want to understand how he's got to this point
[04:19.020 -> 04:19.320] um
[04:19.320 -> 04:24.160] but before I do I do want to continue just talking a bit about the race and I guess Guido it was a really good
[04:24.160 -> 04:36.000] race in the sense of it just proves how good Max is because he could deal with the safety cars, the rain, two massive deluges of rain, the red flag and all of this was happening.
[04:36.000 -> 04:49.360] And if we're honest about it, it probably was never in doubt, was it, that he would end up finishing first from that race? Well, after a second lap, I didn't know because the gap between Perez and Max was quite big,
[04:49.360 -> 04:54.940] but you could see straight away, the head goes down, you see him getting angry and putting
[04:54.940 -> 05:00.160] lap times that nobody could, making the gap from I think 11, 12 seconds suddenly was like
[05:00.160 -> 05:02.120] 4, 3 seconds.
[05:02.120 -> 05:03.720] The pace he had was just amazing.
[05:03.720 -> 05:06.040] I think, as you said before, the driver, Max at the moment, has so. The pace he had was just amazing. I think, as you said before,
[05:06.040 -> 05:08.760] the driver, Max, at the moment has so much confidence.
[05:08.760 -> 05:12.240] He feels so one with the car, one with the team,
[05:12.240 -> 05:14.000] his engineer, the way they talk,
[05:14.000 -> 05:17.320] the way they do things, the way they set up the car,
[05:17.320 -> 05:22.320] the way they handle the radio during the race,
[05:22.560 -> 05:25.600] the feedback they give each other, it's just amazing.
[05:25.600 -> 05:32.720] It looks like they are a married couple and that they are performing on their best at the moment.
[05:32.720 -> 05:38.720] I think it was nice to see that Max was, even though with a lot of pressure from the fans,
[05:38.720 -> 05:42.400] 100,000 people, the day is coming, they want to see him win,
[05:42.400 -> 05:46.080] raining, a lot of music, the pressure, the king
[05:46.080 -> 05:51.440] was there, everybody wants to have a quote, everybody wants to have an autograph, a picture
[05:51.440 -> 05:57.200] with him, that he stays so cool. I think that's his strength at the moment, that he has over
[05:57.200 -> 06:01.680] capacity than more than any other driver to think about different things in the race, to think about
[06:01.680 -> 06:07.680] strategy, to think about the setup, to think about what the best lines are, what's happening on the weather, it
[06:07.680 -> 06:19.640] just amazed me how good he is at the moment.
[06:19.640 -> 06:23.360] Do you agree Tom that he's just performing at a level that is just
[06:23.360 -> 06:25.960] superior to anyone else in the grid basically?
[06:26.160 -> 06:29.440] Yeah, definitely. I mean the confidence that he has in
[06:30.320 -> 06:33.880] Not just himself, but you know the team as well obviously yes
[06:33.880 -> 06:38.940] He's got a very good car underneath him, but you know he's matched a record that I personally thought
[06:39.400 -> 06:44.740] might never be back like match never be broken you wouldn't put it past him breaking it because
[06:44.720 -> 06:45.360] never be back, like match never be broken you wouldn't put it past him breaking it because
[06:51.280 -> 06:58.000] um you know we've seen dominant cars in the past but he's only the second driver that's ever got nine wins in a row and it just shows that he is just driving so well and like you said no matter
[06:58.000 -> 07:06.880] what a race throws at him now we've seen in these races it's not just him starting on pole and winning every race.
[07:06.880 -> 07:11.240] You know, sometimes he's had a penalty and he started further back and he still wins
[07:11.240 -> 07:13.880] or something, you know, the change in the weather.
[07:13.880 -> 07:20.480] I mean, like, like Guido said that, you know, he just stayed so calm and cool in such a
[07:20.840 -> 07:21.960] chaotic race.
[07:22.440 -> 07:25.960] Um, and I also thought, you know,
[07:25.960 -> 07:29.240] when Checo was about 12 seconds up the road
[07:29.240 -> 07:30.600] after making the call earlier,
[07:30.600 -> 07:34.400] I was kind of like, well, surely this is Checo's race win.
[07:34.400 -> 07:36.400] It's going to be a big ask.
[07:36.400 -> 07:38.680] And then you remember that actually
[07:38.680 -> 07:40.600] in these wet to dry conditions,
[07:40.600 -> 07:43.740] Max almost is actually even more superior
[07:43.740 -> 07:45.040] because that's the conditions
[07:45.040 -> 07:49.840] that he likes and he's shown that time and time again and did again in the race.
[07:49.840 -> 07:53.680] I thought that first lap was really interesting in terms of, because obviously it's a short
[07:53.680 -> 07:58.560] lap at Zandvoort, the decision to go onto a different set of tyres, to either the Intermediates
[07:58.560 -> 08:04.040] or the Wets, that decision had to be made really quickly. So whose responsibility is
[08:04.040 -> 08:06.800] it ultimately to make that decision?
[08:06.800 -> 08:11.200] You know, you're sat on the grid as a driver, you know the rain's coming after that first lap,
[08:11.200 -> 08:14.320] there's obviously got to be a cut-off point, hasn't there, between where you go, no,
[08:14.320 -> 08:16.800] we have to make a decision now, otherwise it's too late.
[08:17.680 -> 08:26.720] Well, I think it's a decision of both. Mostly when it goes from slicks to wets, it's the decision from the engineer and the team,
[08:26.720 -> 08:30.640] because they see the radar coming, they see how much rain is coming,
[08:30.640 -> 08:33.680] how long the rain will stay on track.
[08:33.680 -> 08:37.720] And the other way around, I think when you go from rain to slicks,
[08:37.720 -> 08:40.680] it's more the call of the driver, because they see the dry line,
[08:40.680 -> 08:43.440] they feel what's happening on track.
[08:43.440 -> 08:47.160] But in this decision, it was really, really really hard because the first part of the lap on
[08:47.160 -> 08:53.160] lap one it was dry until they came in chicane and turned 13 where it started to rain really,
[08:53.160 -> 08:54.720] really hard.
[08:54.720 -> 09:01.160] And actually I think Perez just guessed it right and Joe guessed it right and I think
[09:01.160 -> 09:08.960] Leclerc also guessed it right because they had like a, very poor first lap. They had nothing to lose. They said, okay, the rain is coming, boom, let's
[09:08.960 -> 09:13.360] go in and then we see what happened. I think Perez did a very, very good call. Joe did
[09:13.360 -> 09:19.120] a very good call because they were one and two after a couple of laps. It's a very tough
[09:19.120 -> 09:23.800] decision. If you're leading and you're second, third or fourth and the rain is coming only
[09:23.800 -> 09:26.960] in the last corner, what do you do? You stay out because the rest of the track is
[09:26.960 -> 09:31.640] dry. But then it started to be, you know, a lot of rain, then you have to come in
[09:31.640 -> 09:36.240] because you are a passenger. Yeah, it was very interesting. There's been some
[09:36.240 -> 09:39.440] fascinating team radio that's emerged, definitely from that opening lap. It's
[09:39.440 -> 09:43.720] pretty hairy. Okay, I just want a word on the event as well because I've got a few
[09:43.720 -> 09:48.760] questions from people at home. One of them, Tom, is actually for you from Kakatoko on Twitter.
[09:48.760 -> 09:52.320] He said, how was the VIP experience at the Dutch Grand Prix?
[09:52.320 -> 09:54.880] Because obviously you were there in 2021 as well.
[09:54.880 -> 10:00.240] I don't know if you were also VIP in 2021, but how was the experience of doing that?
[10:00.240 -> 10:06.640] Yeah, so I've been very fortunate that I've done two Dutch Grands Prix's and the first
[10:06.640 -> 10:11.480] year we got to experience being in the grandstand opposite the main straight, obviously Max
[10:11.480 -> 10:19.480] winning that as well, a lot more flares that year and a lot of techno and stuff like that.
[10:19.480 -> 10:31.480] It was a very cool experience, you know, I've never been to a Formula One race where it felt like you were a football game or you know even a music festival or
[10:31.480 -> 10:34.520] something you know it's constant cheering and chanting and stuff which
[10:34.520 -> 10:39.160] was a really cool experience and then yeah this year we were very lucky that
[10:39.160 -> 10:47.200] we actually on the Sunday we had a guest pass from Daniel Ricciardo, which was a bit
[10:47.200 -> 10:49.400] unusual, because he wasn't there.
[10:49.400 -> 10:55.120] So thankfully we managed to get the passes before his injury, but we still obviously
[10:55.120 -> 11:01.320] were able to get into the paddock, even though his team had gone home, which obviously was
[11:01.320 -> 11:05.000] very sad and unfortunate for them.
[11:05.000 -> 11:09.620] But yeah, we had an amazing experience.
[11:09.620 -> 11:12.440] That's the first time ever that I've been under the podium,
[11:12.440 -> 11:15.080] Red Bull let us go under the podium at the end.
[11:15.080 -> 11:17.040] Never experienced that before.
[11:17.040 -> 11:20.960] And me and Matt, my colleague at P1, yeah, we were,
[11:20.960 -> 11:23.680] you know, as fans living the dream
[11:23.680 -> 11:28.360] where we were like under the podium, just trying to soak it all in, literally soak it all in because
[11:28.360 -> 11:34.040] Fernando was spraying the champagne over us and stuff. Amazing, like it was so good.
[11:34.040 -> 11:38.120] It felt very surreal to be on the other side where you know you're watching
[11:38.120 -> 11:42.920] the the drivers come into Parque Fermé and stuff it was so cool. Incredible
[11:42.920 -> 11:45.320] experience and actually I mean it was my first time in Zandvoort and I just thought what an amazing event it was so cool. Incredible experience. And actually, I mean, it was my first time in Zandvoort
[11:45.320 -> 11:47.080] and I just thought what an amazing event it was.
[11:47.080 -> 11:50.720] So well organized and the viewing spots around the track.
[11:50.720 -> 11:53.560] You know, I had my dad with me this weekend, you met Tom.
[11:53.560 -> 11:54.520] And he was just saying, you know,
[11:54.520 -> 11:56.480] there are just so many places around the track
[11:56.480 -> 11:58.760] that you can see and it's, you know,
[11:58.760 -> 12:01.280] I mean, it was pretty reasonable value as well.
[12:01.280 -> 12:03.760] Like it was just a great race.
[12:03.760 -> 12:06.200] And also Guido, I was gonna say, what an amazing stat
[12:06.200 -> 12:10.040] that I think it was between 97 and 98% of people arrived
[12:10.040 -> 12:11.820] at the track by sustainable transport,
[12:11.820 -> 12:15.400] whether that's on bike, on a train, or by walking.
[12:15.400 -> 12:17.440] I mean, you guys know how to put on a good event,
[12:17.440 -> 12:18.560] don't you?
[12:18.560 -> 12:19.760] That's incredible.
[12:19.760 -> 12:22.440] Well, yeah, I think, yeah, we can be proud on that,
[12:22.440 -> 12:25.440] that we have such an event in Holland.
[12:29.200 -> 12:34.640] You can see that Dutch people, they like to party, like to have a good time. I say it's like one of a family festival what's going on in Zandvoort because
[12:35.200 -> 12:39.040] every year, every year they like people to come, want to see the race, of course,
[12:39.040 -> 12:44.320] want to see Max winning, but the entertainment around the track with the music, with the DJs,
[12:44.320 -> 12:48.000] with the singers, with Andre Rieu, who is doing the national anthem.
[12:48.000 -> 12:50.200] It just amazed me every year.
[12:50.200 -> 12:52.800] It's like getting goosebumps when you're standing there.
[12:52.800 -> 12:56.800] It's like, you know, I have to say I'm a very proud Dutch man at the moment
[12:56.800 -> 12:59.000] because we can put something in Zandvoort.
[12:59.000 -> 13:03.000] I think five, six years ago, we never thought we would be able.
[13:03.000 -> 13:06.600] So I think the team and I think especially Bernhard van Oranje,
[13:06.600 -> 13:09.800] who's the owner of the track, they did an amazing job with their team
[13:10.300 -> 13:13.400] to put an event like this and every year to amaze people
[13:13.400 -> 13:14.900] that it is just a big event.
[13:15.300 -> 13:19.100] I even asked Fernando Alonso because, you know, you have the red flag,
[13:19.100 -> 13:22.800] you're standing there with your car in the pit lane
[13:22.800 -> 13:28.480] and suddenly all the people around you, you hear big music, they start to scream, dance, go crazy.
[13:28.480 -> 13:30.360] And suddenly, like 15 minutes later,
[13:30.360 -> 13:32.320] you have to put the helmet back on and you're like,
[13:32.320 -> 13:35.500] okay, am I in a discotheque or I have to go racing?
[13:35.500 -> 13:37.840] You know, it's just crazy.
[13:37.840 -> 13:40.000] And I asked him this, he said, yeah, well, you know,
[13:40.000 -> 13:42.440] once you put the helmet on, you're back in the game again.
[13:42.440 -> 13:44.400] You just have to basically keep in the zone, right?
[13:44.400 -> 13:46.880] You know, ignore everything that's going on around you.
[13:46.880 -> 13:49.000] And it was, I mean, it was loud on the grid.
[13:49.000 -> 13:49.840] Yeah, very loud.
[13:49.840 -> 13:52.040] Just before, you know, they ramped up the music.
[13:52.040 -> 13:53.480] Just, I mean, you couldn't hear anyone.
[13:53.480 -> 13:54.440] I don't think Nat could hear.
[13:54.440 -> 13:56.280] She didn't interview Steve Carell on the front of the grid.
[13:56.280 -> 13:57.920] I don't think they could hear each other.
[13:57.920 -> 13:59.600] It was ridiculously loud.
[13:59.600 -> 14:01.720] Okay, that's all, I mean, it brings us on nicely
[14:01.720 -> 14:02.760] to talk about Max Verstappen,
[14:02.760 -> 14:04.400] because obviously one of the main reasons
[14:04.400 -> 14:06.640] that we've got the Dutch Grand Prix while we've gone back to Zandvoort is
[14:06.640 -> 14:09.640] because of Max and obviously his success.
[14:09.640 -> 14:13.400] And yeah, as I said in the intro, I just want to get into and understand how he's got to
[14:13.400 -> 14:14.400] this point.
[14:14.400 -> 14:17.400] And Guido, I thought you'd be a brilliant person to ask about this.
[14:17.400 -> 14:19.160] You've known him for a long time.
[14:19.160 -> 14:22.680] Take me back to the first time you came across the name Max Verstappen.
[14:22.680 -> 14:24.800] How did that all come about?
[14:24.800 -> 14:33.120] When he was born? I knew Jos from a very young age. I used to race in his go-kart team when I was
[14:33.680 -> 14:39.440] 15, 16 years old. I was young, even 13. So I met him, I was racing for Jos Verstappen Racing,
[14:40.240 -> 14:47.840] then I moved on, he went to do Formula 1. Actually in 2002, he got paid off his contract in Formula 1.
[14:48.000 -> 14:50.040] I had him on the phone in December and January.
[14:50.200 -> 14:53.920] He said, well, can I help you out regarding coaching,
[14:54.080 -> 14:59.600] regarding engine tuning for the last year you're doing go-kart?
[14:59.760 -> 15:03.480] So we started the way, he started to tune my go-kart engines.
[15:03.640 -> 15:06.880] I think it was a very, very successful year.
[15:06.880 -> 15:12.200] I lived more or less half at his place in Belgium and Max at that time was three, four
[15:12.200 -> 15:13.200] years old.
[15:13.200 -> 15:15.160] I was sleeping in Max's bed.
[15:15.160 -> 15:17.040] Max was sleeping with Jos.
[15:17.040 -> 15:21.040] In the evening we were playing PlayStation together with Max because he was still young,
[15:21.040 -> 15:24.680] but when he was losing, he was even trying to throw the controller away.
[15:24.680 -> 15:27.920] He was angry. He was already very passionate about racing.
[15:27.920 -> 15:31.040] He saw his dad and me going to the go-kart,
[15:31.040 -> 15:33.800] he even went to some races.
[15:33.800 -> 15:35.280] And the funny thing, on the end of the year,
[15:35.280 -> 15:37.280] I won the world championship with Jos,
[15:37.280 -> 15:40.640] which was a very wonderful year, the engines were flying.
[15:40.640 -> 15:44.320] And on that time, it was, I think, October, November,
[15:44.320 -> 15:45.840] Max jumped in for the first
[15:45.840 -> 15:51.640] time in a go-karting gang and I was part of that. So yeah, then what is it,
[15:51.640 -> 15:57.840] 22 years later, 23 years later, we have a three times, nearly three times
[15:57.840 -> 16:02.880] world champion and yeah, from the beginning on, Max has something
[16:02.880 -> 16:08.000] special in his eyes, the way he does things, the confidence,
[16:08.000 -> 16:11.360] the way he plays with the car, the way he races.
[16:11.360 -> 16:13.440] I always say it's a bit of dancing, you know?
[16:13.440 -> 16:16.320] I mean, when I see him dance, it looks a bit strange,
[16:16.320 -> 16:21.040] but when I see him racing, it's just so much control.
[16:21.040 -> 16:22.920] It's just unbelievable.
[16:22.920 -> 16:26.960] Tom, I was going to ask what your first memory of Max is, but you're probably not going to
[16:26.960 -> 16:27.960] match Guido's.
[16:27.960 -> 16:28.960] No.
[16:28.960 -> 16:33.160] It's going to be whatever it is, it's probably not going to be quite as impressive as knowing
[16:33.160 -> 16:34.360] him at the moment he was born.
[16:34.360 -> 16:39.520] But can you pinpoint a moment as a fan when you first came across him and you first started
[16:39.520 -> 16:42.320] to become aware of what he was doing in the junior categories?
[16:42.320 -> 16:49.000] Yeah, absolutely. of what he was doing in the junior categories? Yeah absolutely so I actually as a kid had
[16:49.000 -> 16:55.040] a weird fascination with the Dutch national team football and I don't know why it was
[16:55.040 -> 17:00.440] maybe just the bright orange and I was like oh that's really cool and then when I think
[17:00.440 -> 17:05.680] when Jos was driving he was driving for Arrows and it was, you know, like an orange car
[17:05.680 -> 17:13.280] and being like however old I was like seven or eight, I was just like, oh that's cool, I like
[17:13.280 -> 17:20.880] that. So then when I heard that, you know, Verstappen, the son of him was driving and
[17:21.920 -> 17:27.960] going to be in Formula 3, you know, I'd heard amazing things that, you know, he's going to be in Formula 3, you know, had heard amazing things that he
[17:27.960 -> 17:30.720] was going to be an exciting driver.
[17:30.720 -> 17:36.720] And I think I watched some of the races he was doing in Formula 3 and he was very much
[17:36.720 -> 17:38.800] the kind of driver that I like.
[17:38.800 -> 17:46.060] I've grown up liking the drivers that are, you know, like Montoyers and people like that, that aren't afraid to
[17:46.060 -> 17:50.160] make a bold overtake and are exciting on the track.
[17:50.160 -> 17:56.040] And I remember actually thinking, so it would have been, I think it was 2014 he was in F3,
[17:56.040 -> 18:02.160] and I was like, right, I'm going to support Max, I'm going to follow his career up until
[18:02.160 -> 18:06.540] Formula One, and then I'll be this like hipster fan that's known him for ages.
[18:06.840 -> 18:11.220] And then the reality was he was so good at F3 that he was in F1 the very next year.
[18:11.680 -> 18:15.460] Didn't get to watch that, that journey going up, uh, in the junior categories,
[18:15.460 -> 18:17.280] but it was a big, a big surprise.
[18:17.280 -> 18:23.140] Cause I actually, um, used to, uh, freelance work for, for Red Bull.
[18:23.140 -> 18:25.680] So I actually knew that he was going to get
[18:25.680 -> 18:28.960] that Torosso seat in the big announcement for it so that was also
[18:28.960 -> 18:34.600] really exciting and yeah it was a crazy thing to happen at the time
[18:34.600 -> 18:39.520] you know 17 year old kids coming to F1 and I think there was quite a lot of
[18:39.520 -> 18:50.940] maybe backlash that he was going to come in and you know he's far too too young It's ridiculous that he's he's coming into Formula One and actually, you know, he's he's here doing
[18:51.500 -> 18:53.420] Incredible things in f1 now
[18:53.420 -> 18:54.720] Certainly is yeah Gido
[18:54.720 -> 18:56.480] What do you remember of that period when he?
[18:56.480 -> 19:02.440] First arrived in Formula One obviously the youngest driver to start a Formula One race then the youngest driver to win a Formula One race
[19:02.440 -> 19:07.400] He he he he certainly was noticed wasn he, very early on in his career?
[19:07.400 -> 19:11.320] I think already in Go-Kart you saw that he was spectacular.
[19:11.320 -> 19:14.240] He was doing things at a very young age, winning championships,
[19:14.240 -> 19:15.720] European, World Championship.
[19:15.720 -> 19:19.840] Of course, from that time to go from Go-Kart to a race car,
[19:19.840 -> 19:21.320] it's a bit different.
[19:21.320 -> 19:29.280] It takes a little bit of time, but he was doing a test in England with MP Motorsport for the first time in a Formula
[19:29.280 -> 19:33.280] Renault car and I had Jos on the phone and he said, I don't know what's happening, but
[19:33.280 -> 19:37.640] in the rain he's like one second quicker than a guy he's already one year.
[19:37.640 -> 19:41.840] And he said, it was the first morning in the race car.
[19:41.840 -> 19:44.400] He said, this is unbelievable what's happening here.
[19:44.400 -> 19:48.640] So that was the first time I heard already amazing stories, of course,
[19:48.640 -> 19:51.520] like Tom Selle when he had three, he was spectacular.
[19:51.520 -> 19:55.840] First time I remember him in a Formula One car, he was in a test,
[19:55.840 -> 19:58.160] in a free practice one in Japan.
[19:58.160 -> 20:01.480] At that time, I was the reserve and the third driver of Sauber,
[20:01.480 -> 20:04.720] in 2014 it was.
[20:04.720 -> 20:05.000] And it was.
[20:05.000 -> 20:08.000] And it was, yeah, you know, when he jumped in,
[20:08.000 -> 20:10.000] the way that he was doing the lines,
[20:10.000 -> 20:12.000] the way of the confidence he had already,
[20:12.000 -> 20:14.000] all the press was there.
[20:14.000 -> 20:15.000] There were like 100 photographs
[20:15.000 -> 20:17.000] making pictures in front of the garage.
[20:17.000 -> 20:18.000] And he stayed so cool.
[20:18.000 -> 20:21.000] He was like, you know, I jump in, I do my thing.
[20:21.000 -> 20:22.000] And he was straight away quick.
[20:22.000 -> 20:28.040] And yeah, I think from the beginning onwards, when he jumped in a race car was spectacular when he jumped
[20:28.040 -> 20:33.480] in a Formula One car he has something magic and you know he only knows one
[20:33.480 -> 20:38.400] thing and that's racing and he's doing it all his life even when he's home he's
[20:38.400 -> 20:42.320] on the simulator playing things even when he has a winter break one month
[20:42.320 -> 20:47.000] doing nothing he goes with his father with a Porsche GT3 on track having fun.
[20:47.000 -> 20:50.000] He's just, you know, he lives and breathes racing.
[20:50.000 -> 20:57.000] You mentioned his father there, Guido. I mean, how much of what he was doing early on in his career do you think has helped him now?
[20:57.000 -> 21:09.520] I'm recalling all the stories of him, you know, helping him to learn how to drive in the wet conditions or going through all these scenarios that he might experience in the future in Formula One or wherever it was going to be and just preparing him, allowing him to be
[21:09.520 -> 21:14.960] the best driver he could possibly be when it mattered most. I think Joss is the most important
[21:14.960 -> 21:21.200] guy in his career what happened until now. I think as I work with Joss as well, he's hard,
[21:21.200 -> 21:26.400] he's tough, he has the experience, he's been racing himself in go-kart,
[21:26.400 -> 21:32.000] in race cars, Formula 1 a couple of years, so he knows everything about the sports and
[21:32.880 -> 21:39.280] to guide your son through that, it's something really amazing that how he did it and how much
[21:39.280 -> 21:46.000] of a passion, commitment he gave to Max and that's been unreal. I think a lot of people don't know the background
[21:46.000 -> 21:52.560] stories but he gave everything what he had to put Max in Formula 1 and they still work together.
[21:52.560 -> 21:58.160] You know, Jos still gives advice and they still speak about the car, the setup, the procedures,
[21:58.160 -> 22:06.240] the things what has to be done and I think Jos made a lot of, well, he made some mistakes in his career and I think he learned max
[22:07.400 -> 22:09.240] to not do the mistakes in his career.
[22:09.240 -> 22:11.400] And I think, you know, the combination,
[22:11.400 -> 22:12.900] Max and Jos is just perfect.
[22:12.900 -> 22:15.100] And I have a lot, a lot of respect for Jos
[22:15.100 -> 22:17.840] and also the whole management and his mother and his sister
[22:17.840 -> 22:21.120] because it hasn't been easy, but yeah,
[22:21.120 -> 22:22.840] he's nearly three times world champion.
[22:22.840 -> 22:24.760] So that's also for Jos.
[22:24.760 -> 22:28.160] Tom, what do you think? I mean, you alluded to it with what you liked about him in terms
[22:28.160 -> 22:32.840] of referencing Montoya and that kind of go for everything attitude. How do you think
[22:32.840 -> 22:38.480] fans have warmed to Max Verstappen's style? What is it about his style that makes fans
[22:38.480 -> 22:41.000] enjoy what he does on track?
[22:41.000 -> 22:47.360] Yeah I mean I think he's one of those characters that some of his moves on track, you can have
[22:47.360 -> 22:53.240] a love or hate relationship with it, you know, because when you get those aggressive drivers
[22:53.240 -> 22:57.200] they are controversial, but it's something a lot of people love as well.
[22:57.200 -> 23:03.440] And I think you could see it straight from when he was Toro Rosso, you know, I think
[23:03.440 -> 23:07.180] it was round the outside at Spa, you know, he put an unbelievableso, I think it was round the outside at Spa, he put an unbelievable
[23:07.180 -> 23:12.780] move I think it was on Felipe Nassa at Spa and it was these kind of things that you were
[23:12.780 -> 23:15.180] like wow.
[23:15.180 -> 23:23.300] And if you can stand out in a car that can only really manage 10th place or 11th place
[23:23.300 -> 23:25.520] or whatever, it just showed how good
[23:25.520 -> 23:32.240] he was going to be the one day he did get a good car and obviously when he did make
[23:32.240 -> 23:37.400] that switch to Red Bull he ended up winning his very first race as well which was absolutely
[23:37.400 -> 23:45.640] a crazy thing to happen after all the controversy and I think like Guido's alluded to it it's almost just he's just
[23:45.640 -> 23:49.720] seems so cool about it and nothing really seems to phase him and I think
[23:49.720 -> 23:55.080] that's why we're seeing that level of dominance now really. Yeah it certainly
[23:55.080 -> 23:58.720] doesn't seem to be that phased by the records these continually breaking week
[23:58.720 -> 24:03.840] on week. Guido can you pinpoint a time when the the Dutch fans truly fell in
[24:03.840 -> 24:06.500] love with him was there a moment or a win?
[24:06.500 -> 24:10.320] When did Max Mania, in inverted commas, start?
[24:10.320 -> 24:12.360] I think when I got kicked out of Formula One.
[24:12.360 -> 24:14.560] No, I'm just kidding.
[24:14.560 -> 24:21.080] No, I think, you know, it's, I think from the beginning onwards, when he jumped in,
[24:21.080 -> 24:26.400] in Formula One in 2015, as Tom mentioned, the passes he made,
[24:26.400 -> 24:32.240] it was spectacular, there was something new, he was fire, he was young. He made Formula 1
[24:32.800 -> 24:36.800] spectacular again, because at that time maybe it was a little bit boring and with Max Verstappen
[24:36.800 -> 24:41.440] there was always something going on and there were passes and crazy races and what you said,
[24:41.440 -> 24:49.520] he went from Toro Rosso to Red Bull, he started win the race, he was like wow what's happening here and even in Holland that time everybody was like you know
[24:49.520 -> 24:58.960] football and other sports and suddenly I think since his first win it really started to explode
[24:58.960 -> 25:04.720] in Holland and you see now it's the third time in a row in Zandvoort we have a race,
[25:05.760 -> 25:07.840] And you see now it's the third time in a row in Zandvoort we have a race. It's fully packed every day.
[25:07.840 -> 25:09.800] The merchandise goes crazy.
[25:09.800 -> 25:10.800] Everybody in orange.
[25:10.800 -> 25:16.000] If I even on the street in Amsterdam, I go to the butcher to buy my steak for the night.
[25:16.000 -> 25:17.000] They're crazy.
[25:17.000 -> 25:18.000] How was it?
[25:18.000 -> 25:19.000] Cool.
[25:19.000 -> 25:26.640] It's just about, it really is huge at the moment. And as one guy asked me last week,
[25:26.640 -> 25:29.120] and you know, in the time we had like,
[25:29.120 -> 25:31.860] Johan Cruyff was the biggest athlete in Holland.
[25:31.860 -> 25:35.200] But I think now Max is probably maybe bigger
[25:35.200 -> 25:36.400] than Johan Cruyff.
[25:36.400 -> 25:40.180] What other Formula One drivers have this level of fandom?
[25:40.180 -> 25:42.080] I guess you could look at perhaps our younger crop
[25:42.080 -> 25:44.760] of drivers like Lando Norris and Charles Leclerc.
[25:44.760 -> 25:47.360] They've obviously, they've got huge followings, but perhaps not a
[25:47.360 -> 25:52.800] maybe a national following of just one country that seems to adore them so much. Is that fair?
[25:53.440 -> 25:58.160] Yeah, I think so. I think that is probably part of it as well. You know, in the UK,
[25:58.160 -> 26:01.920] we've been very fortunate to have a lot of world champions come through. And of course,
[26:01.920 -> 26:05.200] you know, when Hamilton got into
[26:05.200 -> 26:11.320] Formula One and was successful straight away, F1 definitely grew to a point but
[26:11.320 -> 26:16.920] it was a successful sport and exciting anyway but yeah I'd probably a
[26:16.920 -> 26:21.000] comparison maybe what I could think of as maybe Fernando Alonso that you know
[26:21.000 -> 26:26.640] Spain had never had a Formula One race winner before and Fernando came in and suddenly
[26:26.640 -> 26:31.600] started challenging Michael Schumacher for race wins and then world championships and
[26:31.600 -> 26:33.320] suddenly Formula One exploded there.
[26:33.320 -> 26:38.560] And I think you've seen that with the Netherlands even more.
[26:38.560 -> 26:41.860] Like you mentioned at the start of the show, I'm stuck in Amsterdam for a couple of days
[26:41.860 -> 26:48.140] and you walk around and you still see like you know even in Amsterdam like matches happen, pictures on the wall or
[26:48.140 -> 26:55.140] in shops and stuff so yeah it's a huge thing you know over there
[26:55.140 -> 27:01.300] because yeah they've now got this huge star that's well he's completely you
[27:01.300 -> 27:08.960] know dominating the sport at the moment. Certainly is. Guido how how has he changed, do you think? How has his driving style changed
[27:08.960 -> 27:14.000] over the course of those years? Is it got, would you say, perhaps a bit more cautious, reserved,
[27:14.000 -> 27:19.200] or maybe he certainly considers perhaps finishing the race, perhaps rather than going for those
[27:19.200 -> 27:26.560] gaps that maybe aren't there. Is that fair? Yeah, I think it's also, he's more mature, he has more few years
[27:26.560 -> 27:32.240] now in the car and more a few years in the paddock, more races. At the beginning when he arrived, he
[27:32.240 -> 27:37.600] was just full of fire and every gap he saw, he went for it. But he's also thinking now of the
[27:37.600 -> 27:43.520] long-term picture, you know, he wants to win, of course, as many races as possible, but when he
[27:43.520 -> 27:48.480] has a problem or when there's something going on, example last year in Silverstone when the car wasn't working he still
[27:48.480 -> 27:53.340] Finished in the points, you know, he's thinking about the championship thinking about the the long term
[27:53.960 -> 27:57.360] And I think that's something that he really grew up from the last few years
[27:58.120 -> 28:01.520] But don't forget when he was fighting Lewis Hampton for the world title
[28:02.360 -> 28:05.240] He really had to go flat out and fool for it
[28:05.240 -> 28:07.600] because on that time he didn't have the best car.
[28:07.600 -> 28:09.240] And he still won it, of course.
[28:09.240 -> 28:12.400] And the last race, it went completely crazy on that time.
[28:12.400 -> 28:17.400] But then when he got the best car, the Pedigle, let's say,
[28:17.400 -> 28:19.360] he's doing an absolutely amazing job.
[28:19.360 -> 28:23.040] So I think the most what you can say is more mature.
[28:23.040 -> 28:26.520] On the human side of being, he's the same.
[28:26.520 -> 28:29.560] I know him for all my life.
[28:29.560 -> 28:30.600] For me, it didn't change.
[28:30.600 -> 28:33.480] Of course, a lot more people are interested in Max
[28:33.480 -> 28:35.080] and they want to have something from him
[28:35.080 -> 28:37.000] and pictures and what's so on.
[28:37.000 -> 28:39.400] But to me, we always stay the same.
[28:39.400 -> 28:41.920] He stays two feet on the ground, even the whole family.
[28:41.920 -> 28:43.760] They're so down to earth
[28:43.760 -> 28:45.720] and I think that that's his strong point.
[28:45.720 -> 28:59.560] I want to get on to some questions now from people at home. Adam on Twitter, do you think
[28:59.560 -> 29:03.680] Max would prefer to be battling wheel-to-wheel competitively with other drivers for victories
[29:03.680 -> 29:08.600] or is he happy winning pretty much unchallenged by 20 or 30 seconds every race? I know that didn't
[29:08.600 -> 29:12.720] happen this weekend, but I can obviously we can point to a lot of races that have that
[29:12.720 -> 29:17.960] did happen over the course of this season. Tom, what's your view? Do you think Max at
[29:17.960 -> 29:21.480] the front would rather be going wheel to wheel more regularly?
[29:21.480 -> 29:26.040] I mean, I think he's been asked this quite a few times this year,
[29:26.040 -> 29:29.800] and I think he's said, you know, this is what I've worked towards
[29:29.800 -> 29:32.880] to be in a dominant car, you know.
[29:32.880 -> 29:35.480] And it is, of course, it is much easier as a fan.
[29:35.480 -> 29:37.800] I would, you know, it's great that he's winning,
[29:37.800 -> 29:41.360] but I personally would like to see him have more of a battle
[29:41.360 -> 29:43.480] because that's, you know, the exciting side
[29:43.480 -> 29:53.680] that made me support him in the first place but you know he he can he's finally got that car um that can dominate the sport so he
[29:53.680 -> 29:59.840] he knows that everything's running like clockwork and he can just go in and have a not quite a
[29:59.840 -> 30:05.200] sunday drive because i mean the race the last the last time I mean it was an absolutely crazy race
[30:05.200 -> 30:14.000] and he still ended up winning so I do think that yeah he enjoys that racing side of it
[30:14.000 -> 30:20.680] but he's probably I guess you have to put it in put yourself in his shoes even though
[30:20.680 -> 30:25.600] it seems a very long time ago now with how dominant he is. He was the one that
[30:25.600 -> 30:31.040] was watching Mercedes be 20 seconds up the road and no one could catch them and now he's finally
[30:31.040 -> 30:37.440] in that position. I think he's enjoying himself. Do you agree Guido? Yeah, yeah, fully. I think
[30:37.440 -> 30:41.840] he prefers to win with 20-30 seconds every race instead of battling because it makes life more
[30:41.840 -> 30:45.340] easy. When you're on the lead, you can control the race,
[30:45.340 -> 30:46.760] you can control the tires,
[30:46.760 -> 30:50.080] it's just something more easier.
[30:50.080 -> 30:54.480] But of course, when the competitors will come more close,
[30:54.480 -> 30:56.080] I think he's ready to fight.
[30:56.080 -> 30:58.120] What are your thoughts, this is a tweet from Jen,
[30:58.120 -> 30:59.660] what are your thoughts on Max's project
[30:59.660 -> 31:03.360] to bring sim races into the real thing?
[31:03.360 -> 31:05.860] Guido, what do you make of, obviously,
[31:05.860 -> 31:08.920] from my understanding, he spends a lot of time sim racing.
[31:08.920 -> 31:11.160] Do you think, I have a couple of questions to this,
[31:11.160 -> 31:13.600] do you think that is helping him in Formula One?
[31:13.600 -> 31:15.520] Do you think he is a better driver
[31:15.520 -> 31:17.420] because he's a good sim racer?
[31:17.420 -> 31:19.700] And also, yeah, what do you make of this project
[31:19.700 -> 31:21.640] that he's trying to use sim racing
[31:21.640 -> 31:23.600] to get more drivers into F1?
[31:23.600 -> 31:28.960] I think, yeah, he becomes a better driver because he drives a lot in simulator and of
[31:28.960 -> 31:32.560] course he also drives in real life so the combination is perfect.
[31:32.560 -> 31:36.520] But if you only do sim racing and then you go to a race car you don't have the feeling
[31:36.520 -> 31:41.600] of the G-force, the brake force, the steering wheel, whatsoever, it's completely different.
[31:41.600 -> 31:47.280] But I think what his project wants to be is like coming in, making a sim driver be really,
[31:47.280 -> 31:49.280] really fast and then put him in a race car.
[31:49.280 -> 31:51.400] And I think he's really going to push for that.
[31:51.400 -> 31:56.360] And I'm sure when he finds the perfect guy who is also very good in the simulator, put
[31:56.360 -> 31:57.960] him in a race car and see what happens.
[31:57.960 -> 32:00.520] And it's not easy.
[32:00.520 -> 32:02.720] We've seen it, I think, with an English driver.
[32:02.720 -> 32:05.200] He went also with Gran Turismo in a simulator,
[32:05.200 -> 32:06.320] then he went to GT.
[32:06.320 -> 32:07.440] I think he did the work.
[32:07.440 -> 32:09.440] He did even win a couple of races.
[32:09.440 -> 32:11.960] So there is an example that it can happen,
[32:11.960 -> 32:14.120] but it's not easy.
[32:14.120 -> 32:17.560] Tom, do you think it's a very separate part
[32:17.560 -> 32:19.680] of motorsport at the moment, sim racing?
[32:19.680 -> 32:21.760] And can you see in the future that becoming more
[32:21.760 -> 32:24.920] and more aligned in order to perhaps become,
[32:24.920 -> 32:29.280] maybe feeder series is too strong, but identifying talent at sim level, because ultimately it's a lot
[32:29.280 -> 32:34.560] cheaper to race a sim than it is to race a Formula One car, right? So if you can identify talent
[32:34.560 -> 32:41.040] early on, then I guess it's, it could be beneficial for both parties. Yeah, definitely. I think the,
[32:42.320 -> 32:47.020] obviously, like Guido said, it's a very different, not completely
[32:47.020 -> 32:51.320] different skill, but obviously you don't get that that same feeling as being in a
[32:51.320 -> 32:57.520] in a real car. But I do think that the more it improves, I mean you know growing
[32:57.520 -> 33:01.920] up playing Formula One games on a controller is now very different. You can
[33:01.920 -> 33:11.600] quite easily have you know great sim setup. Some of the sim setups you can get now are so realistic and the games are more realistic,
[33:11.600 -> 33:27.440] and the simulators and things that you can do at home. I think the key thing is the money side of it, that it's cheaper to, even if you buy a very expensive simulator
[33:27.440 -> 33:29.080] and iRacing or whatever,
[33:29.080 -> 33:32.280] is a lot cheaper than going to go-karts,
[33:32.280 -> 33:34.760] flying around the world and all that side of things.
[33:34.760 -> 33:39.660] So you can identify maybe a talent there
[33:39.660 -> 33:43.360] and then a team or if they get the financial support
[33:43.360 -> 33:46.240] to grow grow they could
[33:46.240 -> 33:52.160] get into it that side. I think there's a way that that could I don't
[33:52.160 -> 33:58.520] think you would ever overtake go-karting but it's another avenue to
[33:58.520 -> 34:08.640] discover talent I guess. Yeah certainly. Let's move on to another question. Kevin on Twitter, why is Max so
[34:08.640 -> 34:13.360] far ahead of the current field? Everyone says a dominant Red Bull car, but yet Perez struggles.
[34:13.360 -> 34:17.440] It's nothing like Hamilton and Rosberg. Who is going to be the driver to race and challenge
[34:17.440 -> 34:22.560] Max Guido? I'll go to you on that one. Who do you think is going to be the one who's going to
[34:22.560 -> 34:24.400] get closest to Max over the next few years?
[34:24.800 -> 34:31.160] is going to be the one who's going to get closest to Max over the next few years? It's hard. I think at the moment he's such on a different level than compared to everybody
[34:31.160 -> 34:35.160] else. I mean, look at all the teammates he had for the last couple of years. I mean,
[34:35.160 -> 34:41.440] he destroyed everybody. And I think I rate Perez quite high. He was my teammate in GP2
[34:41.440 -> 34:47.760] that time. I think he did a very good job with all the other drivers he'd been racing in Formula 1, but he has a tough time.
[34:47.840 -> 34:49.600] Of course, it's a mental thing sometimes,
[34:49.680 -> 34:51.760] because if you have a driver who's always quick,
[34:51.840 -> 34:53.520] who's always fast, who always pulls,
[34:53.600 -> 34:56.560] gives you, I don't know, 3, 4, 5, 6 tenths,
[34:56.640 -> 34:59.840] or even more in qualifying, it just hurts mentally.
[34:59.920 -> 35:02.680] And I think that's a little bit what's happening,
[35:02.760 -> 35:04.760] because Perez, I think, is a good guy.
[35:04.840 -> 35:05.360] He's quick, and at the beginning of the year, when he's in's happening, because Perez is a good guy, he's quick,
[35:05.440 -> 35:07.480] at the beginning of the year, when he's in the flow,
[35:07.560 -> 35:09.600] he's doing a wonderful job,
[35:09.680 -> 35:13.640] but once he gets a real match stopper next to him,
[35:13.720 -> 35:14.680] he's struggling.
[35:14.760 -> 35:18.520] And if you maybe have to pick a couple of drivers
[35:18.600 -> 35:22.680] who can come close with the same car, with the same team,
[35:22.760 -> 35:26.640] Fernando Alonso, look at the performance he did again last weekend.
[35:26.720 -> 35:27.920] He was really on fire.
[35:28.000 -> 35:30.960] You know, the experience he has, he's still super fast.
[35:32.080 -> 35:33.840] Lewis Hamilton, same.
[35:33.920 -> 35:36.120] Yeah, I think he's rated very high.
[35:36.200 -> 35:40.320] I mean, I've been racing with him myself from a very young age.
[35:40.400 -> 35:41.960] I think he's very, very good.
[35:42.360 -> 35:46.080] And what I want, I rate very high is
[35:46.080 -> 35:51.840] Landon Norris I think he is he is the one maybe in a few years to become
[35:51.840 -> 35:57.400] very very close to to Max Verstappen. Tom are you you get much traction on kind of
[35:57.400 -> 36:03.240] a Lando and Max team partnership do you see that fans want that can you can you
[36:03.240 -> 36:10.000] see that happening in the future? It's a difficult one because yeah, I mean I think before McLaren's resurgence
[36:10.000 -> 36:16.360] I would have said, you know, maybe Lando does need to take a risk and maybe go alongside Max
[36:16.360 -> 36:20.800] I don't personally don't think Lando would beat Max in that team. You know, it's Max's team
[36:21.880 -> 36:23.240] Max's
[36:23.240 -> 36:29.280] dominance and like Guido said like he's just mentally on top of every other
[36:29.280 -> 36:36.800] driver at the moment because he's got that mentality of never seems to have a day off.
[36:36.800 -> 36:43.640] He wants to just dominate all the time and never kind of lets that slip.
[36:43.640 -> 36:46.000] But yeah, Lando now in the McLaren I think it's
[36:46.000 -> 36:51.520] better for him to stay and be a team leader because I don't think that I
[36:51.520 -> 36:55.440] personally don't believe that anyone that would go into that Red Bull
[36:55.440 -> 37:00.800] alongside Max would beat Max and they'd rely on building another team like a
[37:00.800 -> 37:05.600] team around them a Mercedes, Nasta, Martin or whoever to get on Red Bull's level
[37:05.600 -> 37:11.380] to challenge for a title. I don't think you can get into that Red Bull team and beat Max
[37:11.380 -> 37:18.440] because they're just you know it's perfect harmony at the moment between man and machine.
[37:18.440 -> 37:24.000] Yeah I think that's probably true. In terms of the future Guido and we've heard it's sort
[37:24.000 -> 37:25.000] of I feel like it's gained a bit of traction this year in terms of the future Guido, and we've heard, I feel like it's gained a
[37:25.000 -> 37:29.600] bit of traction this year in terms of what Max will do, how long Max will race in Formula
[37:29.600 -> 37:33.960] One. We know that it's all he's done really, isn't it, since he was four or five years
[37:33.960 -> 37:38.800] old. Racing, as you said earlier, has just been part of his life for so long. Can you
[37:38.800 -> 37:43.400] see him taking either a break from Formula One and coming back, or can you see him racing
[37:43.400 -> 37:49.440] in another series and then coming back to Formula 1 or maybe just retiring very early on in his career?
[37:50.560 -> 37:55.200] Well, it's a tough one. Of course, he's been a long time in Formula 1 already and I think he
[37:55.200 -> 38:02.000] wants to continue, you know, he has a contract until 28. So, for sure he wants to win races,
[38:02.000 -> 38:09.760] he wants to win championships, but he's not looking for records. And I know personally that he still has a big favour of doing different races,
[38:09.760 -> 38:13.400] like 24-hour Le Mans, he really loves to do that, he wants to win it.
[38:13.400 -> 38:18.080] Daytona he wants to win, there's another race, 24-hour race.
[38:18.080 -> 38:22.560] In South Africa, I was very, very high on the list of what he wants to do.
[38:22.560 -> 38:25.840] So, he wants to explore other things in racing,
[38:25.840 -> 38:31.680] wants to see different categories, he wants to race with teammates and I'm sure he's going to
[38:31.680 -> 38:39.200] go and do that. When, of course, we don't know. But I don't see him really saying, look, I'm
[38:39.200 -> 38:43.200] stopping now Formula 1, I'm going to do something else and I'm going to go back to Formula 1, a bit
[38:43.200 -> 38:47.360] like Fernando Alonso did. I think when he stops Formula One, he's going to focus
[38:47.360 -> 38:50.280] on the other projects and then he will not come back.
[38:50.280 -> 38:54.440] In terms of those other projects, I guess that points to the fact he's a racer, right,
[38:54.440 -> 38:58.600] through and through. He's not just focused on Formula One, he wants to try Guido, the
[38:58.600 -> 39:02.040] other projects as well, because I guess he'll get so much satisfaction. I mean, even racing
[39:02.040 -> 39:07.200] with Joss, I think that's been spoken about before, hasn't it? How that they would potentially like to race together
[39:07.200 -> 39:08.160] in the future?
[39:08.160 -> 39:09.000] Yeah, of course.
[39:09.000 -> 39:11.080] And they like to do it,
[39:11.080 -> 39:13.680] but it depends a little bit of Jos
[39:13.680 -> 39:15.960] if he's still on it and he wants to do it.
[39:15.960 -> 39:18.840] I also ask him, can we not do Le Mans together?
[39:18.840 -> 39:21.600] I mean, we put a full Dutch squad,
[39:21.600 -> 39:24.520] you know, Jos, Max, and me in it.
[39:24.520 -> 39:26.680] I think how wonderful would that be?
[39:26.680 -> 39:28.600] But, no, he's still in Formula One
[39:28.600 -> 39:30.760] and he has to focus on the next couple of years
[39:30.760 -> 39:31.600] in Formula One.
[39:31.600 -> 39:33.640] I think once he's done with that
[39:33.640 -> 39:36.800] and he's, let's say, ready to do something else,
[39:36.800 -> 39:38.840] he will do also amazingly well
[39:38.840 -> 39:41.360] in every other race car he will jump in.
[39:41.360 -> 39:44.440] I just want to move on to what Fernando Alonso said
[39:44.440 -> 39:49.440] after the race yesterday, that it'simated sometimes what what Max is achieving. I thought that was a really
[39:49.440 -> 39:52.880] interesting quote because obviously Fernando understands just how hard it is to win a world
[39:52.880 -> 39:58.320] championship, to have the longevity that he's had in the sport. Tom, I mean do you agree with
[39:58.320 -> 40:07.880] Fernando that perhaps we are as a F1 maybe, still underestimating just how impressive what Max is doing is at the moment.
[40:07.880 -> 40:08.720] I think so.
[40:08.720 -> 40:10.800] There's obviously, you know,
[40:10.800 -> 40:12.740] there will always be that side of Formula One
[40:12.740 -> 40:16.560] where people try to diminish people's achievements
[40:16.560 -> 40:17.920] because they've got a very good car.
[40:17.920 -> 40:20.760] And that's not, that's something we saw with
[40:20.760 -> 40:23.080] even like Lewis Hamilton when he was dominating.
[40:23.080 -> 40:28.880] There was that area on Twitter where people were like, well you know it's just the car and it's easy
[40:28.880 -> 40:35.080] to say that but you have to get to that you know when you get that car you have
[40:35.080 -> 40:42.000] to deliver and Max you know this season I don't think that Red Bull is it's an
[40:42.000 -> 40:47.040] unbelievable car but it's we've seen in the history of Formula One
[40:47.040 -> 40:54.800] cars that are on that level and no driver has managed to get this level of dominance
[40:54.800 -> 40:59.360] and I think that's something that Max could achieve this year that I've always felt that
[41:00.320 -> 41:06.320] I think you go back to 2020 I think it was when the Mercedes was absolutely
[41:06.320 -> 41:11.720] clear and you can watch old races from that season and the whole field is
[41:11.720 -> 41:15.120] lapped by the Mercedes and there's one driver that's not and it's Max and
[41:15.120 -> 41:19.480] somehow he would challenge Bottas, sometimes he'd even beat Hamilton in
[41:19.480 -> 41:26.680] that and it didn't make you wonder, jeez how good is this guy gonna be if he got a car that good?
[41:26.680 -> 41:30.400] And we're seeing it play out exactly right now.
[41:30.400 -> 41:37.800] Because, so far, if this carries on, it will be the greatest season we've ever seen in Formula 1.
[41:37.800 -> 41:40.800] Because he's had two second places and won everything else.
[41:40.800 -> 41:43.200] Never happened before.
[41:43.200 -> 41:47.520] So, yeah, he has that that it's easy to say he's
[41:47.520 -> 41:51.400] got a very good car because he does but then one you can look at his teammate
[41:51.400 -> 41:56.760] and also you can compare it to other levels of domination and things in the
[41:56.760 -> 42:06.080] past and the reality is that you know he's matched a record of nine wins in a row you wouldn't put him past beating that
[42:06.080 -> 42:13.760] and yeah his dominance is quite crazy this year to be honest and I think it
[42:13.760 -> 42:19.240] all comes down to what Guido said earlier about his mental sort of he
[42:19.240 -> 42:24.800] doesn't want to give anyone a chance and I think that that is why he just can
[42:24.800 -> 42:26.760] continue to dominate the way it has done.
[42:26.880 -> 42:31.460] Well, I know obviously Guido from a Dutch perspective, I'm sure Max can do no wrong,
[42:31.460 -> 42:37.760] you know, he is widely celebrated and he's on the front page of every paper when he wins. Do you think globally, internationally,
[42:38.320 -> 42:45.480] we're still not quite recognizing, like Fernando says, that we're still not quite recognising the achievements of what Verstappen has achieved?
[42:45.480 -> 42:52.960] I don't know. I think it is because all the internet sites, all the podcasts, all the
[42:52.960 -> 43:02.600] websites, all the newspapers, they truly think very, very high of Max Verstappen. But I think
[43:02.600 -> 43:08.240] the other side, because he's very down to earth, he still can have a, let's say, a little bit of a normal life.
[43:08.240 -> 43:11.360] I think Lui is a little bit more outgoing,
[43:11.360 -> 43:15.600] with going to all the events where you have the things
[43:15.600 -> 43:20.000] on the VIP, on the red carpet, the show, whatever.
[43:20.000 -> 43:21.920] I think Max, he only wants to race
[43:21.920 -> 43:24.640] and wants to have fun with his family and with his friends
[43:24.640 -> 43:27.720] and then goes to a race and then back home and that's it.
[43:27.720 -> 43:29.960] And I think that's a little bit of a different way.
[43:29.960 -> 43:35.560] But as a driver, I think everybody has huge respect for him, even Fernando Alonso saying
[43:35.560 -> 43:37.280] that last weekend.
[43:37.280 -> 43:38.280] And that's nice to see.
[43:38.280 -> 43:40.520] And I think that's all what he cares about.
[43:40.520 -> 43:41.880] All right, perfect.
[43:41.880 -> 43:44.200] Just a couple of questions then, really, really on Monza this week.
[43:44.200 -> 43:50.960] And we know that Max is going to go for 10 in a row. Guido, your thoughts then on how possible that is
[43:50.960 -> 43:55.600] at the Italian Grand Prix this weekend? Do you think we will be in a week's time looking
[43:55.600 -> 43:59.320] back and saying, wow, we've now got a new record-breaking Max Verstappen?
[43:59.320 -> 44:06.800] 100%. Because for me, I think he's just on fire. I think that car will do really well in that race.
[44:06.800 -> 44:12.600] I guess Ferrari will come close as well with Leclerc being always quick there.
[44:12.600 -> 44:18.000] I think that Ferrari, they have like a bit of a pressure from all the fans
[44:18.000 -> 44:21.200] and all the Ferrari, all the Tivoli's, so they have to do well.
[44:21.200 -> 44:25.600] I think that car is still quick on a straight line, the Ferraris.
[44:25.600 -> 44:28.300] So they will battle Max Verstappen, but on the other hand,
[44:28.300 -> 44:30.900] I think Max will take pole position, win the race,
[44:30.900 -> 44:32.700] and will have a new record.
[44:32.700 -> 44:36.200] But the question is actually how many more races he's going to win.
[44:36.200 -> 44:39.000] Maybe he goes up to 12, 13, 14.
[44:39.000 -> 44:40.300] It can happen, huh?
[44:40.300 -> 44:42.800] Yeah, wow. I mean, if we go up to those numbers,
[44:42.800 -> 44:44.000] it will be extraordinary.
[44:44.000 -> 44:45.180] Tom, just a final
[44:45.180 -> 44:50.440] word from you really on actually Ferrari at Monza because obviously we missed Imola. So
[44:50.440 -> 44:55.760] this is the first time Ferrari are returning to home turf this year. Not been a great season
[44:55.760 -> 45:00.300] for them. It's been up and down and it wasn't a great race in Zandvoort for them. So what
[45:00.300 -> 45:04.040] do you think the expectations are going to be like of the Tifosi this week? And how are
[45:04.040 -> 45:07.680] they going to manage that? Because as I say, the car doesn't look as good as it should?
[45:08.240 -> 45:13.760] Yeah, it's a strange one with Ferrari because last year they were, you know, making mistakes
[45:13.760 -> 45:18.560] and having those issues but they were at least out the front challenging, you know, they could get
[45:19.280 -> 45:25.720] wins and things like that and podiums whereas now the expectation I guess is a lot
[45:25.720 -> 45:31.240] lower because they're battling for the podium if that sometimes fourth, fifth,
[45:31.240 -> 45:36.560] sixth. So I don't think there'll be, there'll always be pressure on
[45:36.560 -> 45:41.560] Ferrari at Monza to deliver but I don't think there'll be the huge expectation
[45:41.560 -> 45:45.200] for them to win like maybe we saw last year because the car was better.
[45:45.200 -> 45:50.000] I think a lot of people, unsurprisingly, will expect Max to win the race,
[45:50.000 -> 45:58.000] but I think Ferrari to maybe get on the podium would be a great result for them really.
[45:58.000 -> 46:00.000] Yeah, well we will certainly see what happens.
[46:00.000 -> 46:04.000] Guido and Tom, thank you so much for your time. Really, really appreciate it.
[46:04.000 -> 46:05.640] We will be back next Tuesday
[46:05.640 -> 46:07.240] to look back on the Italian Grand Prix.
[46:07.240 -> 46:08.440] I hope you can join us then.
[46:08.440 -> 46:09.280] Bye for now.